CFB51 College Football Fan Community

The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: 847badgerfan on January 15, 2020, 07:24:20 PM

Title: Misfits Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 15, 2020, 07:24:20 PM
So, what's everyone up to this year?

It's a big one for us as Mrs. 847 is retiring in March.

We just got back from Cabo, and we'll head to Florida next month, for a week.

Then, in March (after the retirement), we head to Lima, Peru to hop on a cruise ship. It will make its way to Miami, via the Panama Canal (that the USA built and Carter gave away). This has been on my list for a long time, so I'm really excited.

We'll probably end up buying a home in Florida this year.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2020, 07:56:40 PM
I'm not sure about man cutting waterways between oceans, but with a little foresight they could have made it wider
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2020, 08:04:30 PM
I just got back from Texas, didn't want to come back in this weather, but I can't retire yet.

Anyone know of someone looking for an old fat guy to make good money for 5 or 6 years south of Kansas, I'm your man.

Might make a trip to play golf in Sedona in March

if not Sedona in MArch, maybe another trip to Texas in late Feb.

Then a summer of work and golf

possibly a late summer trip the the SF Bay area with my daughters
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 16, 2020, 06:59:53 AM
Sedona is kinda chilly in March still. But, it's a beautiful place. Almost every time we visit the PHX area, my brother-in-law flies us up there for lunch in his plane (he's in a club).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on January 16, 2020, 07:51:15 AM
Sedona really is beautiful.

I suggest moving to California.  I hear that it's the place you oughtta be.

Sorry I missed you Fearless, just too much going on these past few weeks. That's our usual for right after the Holidays, oddly enough everything calms again from now through March or so. Hope you had a great visit and that your brother is AOK.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on January 16, 2020, 08:04:28 AM
With our build, sell and move finally out of the way, I do look forward to a 'normal' year, but the sale of our business has altered that a bit this winter/spring, incredibly busy time.   Somehow I've managed to avoid trips to NYC lately, which is really hard to do in my business, that streak ends here in the next month.  I can check out all of the big renovations at LaGuardia that people have been touting.

I'm pretty sure my wife and I are taking the kids to Alaska this year.    We've been talking about this for a bit, and it is time.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on January 16, 2020, 09:24:46 AM
Going to remodel the kitchen for sure.Getting prices now for cabinet refacing,counter tops with an additional cabinet or two.If they're all as costly as the last estimate,well then I'm going on the cheap and doing it myself - with a buddy whose an electrician.Prolly take us two weeks with a temporary kitchen in the basement - fun times
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 16, 2020, 09:29:45 AM
We've lived through remodels. It's painful - especially the master bath one. Kitchen, in the summer, isn't so bad because you can cook outside.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on January 16, 2020, 09:50:24 AM
We just repainted the interior and replaced the floors in the house and that was painful enough.  Went to hardwoods in the living/dining rooms and master bedroom, and replaced the original builder carpet with something much better throughout the upstairs.  That was pretty painful, basically like moving, but in and out of the same house.  Everything had to be boxed and stowed in the few areas that weren't getting new floors.  I don't plan on doing that again, until we're selling/moving for good.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 16, 2020, 12:36:17 PM
We did some painting of accent walls in the house recently, as well as repainting our fireplace and re-tiling around the fireplace and entryway. Generally I don't like doing much (even paint) in a rental, but we've decided we plan to live here a few more years before we buy something of our own, so it was worth it to get rid of the hideous paint/tile on the fireplace.

And of course now I'm also building/extending a fence. One of the driving factors in staying put for a while is that the landlord has allowed me to get a family dog, but required that the fence in the backyard be extended from ~3' high to 5-6' high. The cost to hire a contractor to do it would probably be prohibitive, but with a little elbow grease I can handle it on the cheap. I set the posts I needed last Sunday, and I'll be replacing the 3' pickets with 6' pickets this weekend.

All this has to get done so our perfect little Golden Retriever puppy can come home next Saturday!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 16, 2020, 05:36:13 PM
We did painting in our rental, and I replaced the "funeral home" light fixtures. I kept the old ones for the landlord, so when we leave I can either take mine, or charge him for them. He paid for the paint, but we did it. Also put up some new window treatments, and kept the old ones... same deal.

It's a pain, but it's modern, and "home" for us while we wait to move to Florida.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 16, 2020, 08:36:53 PM
Sedona really is beautiful.

I suggest moving to California.  I hear that it's the place you oughtta be.

Sorry I missed you Fearless, just too much going on these past few weeks. That's our usual for right after the Holidays, oddly enough everything calms again from now through March or so. Hope you had a great visit and that your brother is AOK.
no trouble utee,
As I said, I was busy as well.  The weather was perfect and required early lunches to get in 18 before dark.
It doesn't appear that I will be making the trip to Sedona in March, so another trip to visit my brother could easily happen in February.
Speaking of the brother, he's AOK.  Since he's still working at UT-Arlington, he's trying to talk the wife into moving up there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MichiFan87 on January 16, 2020, 11:41:08 PM
It goes without saying that I'm just trying to keep my sanity living in DC now....

...I'm also still in the process of becoming self-employed, since I know I don't fit in the corporate world, even in the clean energy space. I think I've found enough entrepreneurs to work with, but they just don't have enough work for me yet. One of them in particular is scaling up his business and wants me to be more involved, but there's still a lot of uncertainty so I've taken a temp job in the meantime....

On the personal side, I'm still using some dating sites to finally find the right woman, but I haven't gotten many matches. At this point, I'm about to concede that I may just have to use a matchmaking site even though they're expensive....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 17, 2020, 08:27:44 AM
Unsolicited, I know, but here goes:

Get all your chit together (business, residence, etc.) and then go find that woman. It'll happen naturally. Always does.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on January 18, 2020, 08:37:13 PM
My wife reluctantly pulled me into foster parenthood about a year ago.  We've got two boys, and she wanted a third, I didn't, that was the compromise.  I was worried it was a back door way to adopt a third, which I immediately told the agency it wasn't, she I think still wanted to.  She's adopted herself.

In a crazy set of circumstances a baby was born in a toilet near the hospital, when the mother fled due to being high, a parole violation.  We got a call.  My wife visited her every day in the hospital because she was two months premature.  But amazingly, she was healthy.  No health problems, no signs of withdrawal from her user mom.  She was just small.

We brought her home 2 weeks later, and she won me over.  In a lot of ways our bond was closer than with my two biological sons.  I was wrong, we wanted to adopt her.  Her mother subsequently died of an OD, and father had a lengthy criminal history.  They put up a non family member/friend, but there was no family option.  We got a notice on Tuesday, after 6 months, that the state finally agreed with her guardian ad litem that the best thing for her was to move forward with adoption.  On Wednesday, the judge disagreed, and awarded immediate custody to the family friend.  No transition period.  We had 5 minutes to say goodbye.

The system sucks.  I just have to hope it's for the best.  The woman is a good mother.  We've met her, we've met her kids, I think she'll be ok.  But damn, that was my daughter, and it hurts.  We are handing over all of the clothes we bought her except her Christmas dress and the MSU cheerleader outfit she hadn't grown into yet.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on January 18, 2020, 09:24:09 PM
Damn ELA, that's a lot to go through in such a tight window.   I admire your resolve.  You are also right about the system.   The most complicated, heartbreaking events transpire in a family/children's court.  Those are very traumatic places to be.

I wish you and your family well during this time. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 19, 2020, 09:07:08 AM
Hat's off to you ELA. As an adopted kid myself, I couldn't imagine being taken away from my parents, no matter the age.

Are you going to try again?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 19, 2020, 09:49:30 AM
wow, that's difficult.  Life isn't always easy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on January 19, 2020, 09:57:35 AM
Really sorry to hear that AAA.  I can't imagine the heartbreak.  You and your wife are still excellent people for helping in the way you did.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 19, 2020, 10:36:12 AM
Really sorry to hear that AAA.  I can't imagine the heartbreak.  You and your wife are still excellent people for helping in the way you did.
Change is hard. I know.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on January 19, 2020, 12:45:09 PM
What you did was a blessing, ELA, even if you don't get to bear the fruits of it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on January 19, 2020, 02:31:21 PM
The system sucks.  I just have to hope it's for the best.  The woman is a good mother.  We've met her, we've met her kids, I think she'll be ok.  But damn, that was my daughter, and it hurts.  We are handing over all of the clothes we bought her except her Christmas dress and the MSU cheerleader outfit she hadn't grown into yet.
Sorry to hear this!No good deed goes unpunished as they say.You took the high road and handled it better than reasonably could be expected.Just wondering where were these folks months back.I hope everything works out well for the kid.The ELAs did good
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 19, 2020, 02:42:19 PM
On a positive note, Mrs. 847 and I just signed the contract to purchase our new home in Florida.

We are very happy, on this 10 degree (F) January day.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 19, 2020, 03:35:09 PM
Printing and cutting, printing and cutting, printing and cutting...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 19, 2020, 03:35:26 PM
On a positive note, Mrs. 847 and I just signed the contract to purchase our new home in Florida.

We are very happy, on this 10 degree (F) January day.
Where at?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 19, 2020, 03:38:28 PM
Point A:  there is a massive need for adoptions
Point B:  what happened to ELA
.
WTF
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 19, 2020, 04:03:16 PM
Where at?
Burnt Store Marina, between Punta Gorda and Fort Myers. Straight shot out from there to the Boca Grande pass. About 10 miles or so. Next step is to buy the fishing boat. Looking at Grady-White for now, or something similar.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on January 19, 2020, 04:28:22 PM
Gradys are fine vessels
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 19, 2020, 04:40:18 PM
Hah, there's a Burnt Store Golf Club!!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 19, 2020, 04:44:21 PM
Hah, there's a Burnt Store Golf Club!!!!
Yes. It's a resort community. Lots of stuff going on there.


Grady is a great boat. And expensive. We will look at alternates, for sure, but I'd really like to buy it up "here" in the Great Lakes rather than buy a salted boat.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on January 19, 2020, 05:00:53 PM
Change is hard. I know.
His helmetitis manifests in strange ways
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on January 19, 2020, 05:02:07 PM
Are you going to try again?
Too early to say.  And we also have to figure out the impact on our biological sons, who are 6 and 4.  If it's too much for them, then no.  If not, then maybe.  Probably not a baby again though.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 19, 2020, 05:15:20 PM
Your Husker friends Rob and Laura that attended your tailgate for the Husker game in Madison a few years back have a place near there.

Their neighbor is from Wisconsin and of course a Badger fan.

They are a half block north of the Caloosahatchie river in Cape Coral.

They like to visit Pine Island
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on January 19, 2020, 05:26:36 PM
Just back from Braves Baseball Fantasy Camp in North Port, FL.  Had great weather, did pretty well for a geezer, had a great time.

If you at all like baseball, these things are fantastic.  I've been 5 times now.

About to head to France for a month, yucky weather there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on January 19, 2020, 07:59:18 PM
Change is hard. I know.

I don't acknowledge screen name changes.  The way I met you, is the way I will address you.

Isn't that right Fearless Frankie???
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 19, 2020, 08:00:19 PM
correct
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on January 20, 2020, 08:19:50 AM
I just read ELA's post.  Damn.

One can tell when a poster is a "fine fellow", and most of youse are of course, but we all knew ELA was "extra fine" and this is an example of it.  That shouldn't happen to fine fellows like him.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 20, 2020, 08:43:21 AM
I'd like to meet the judge. Have a little talk and all that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CatsbyAZ on January 20, 2020, 09:28:23 AM
Can’t remember where I was watching - the bar, the gym? - but Pardon the Interruption was airing. They were asking whether LSU makes the playoff next year.

NO! Tigers lose Burrow, six early to draft, two coordinators. The schedule is difficult and they will have a target on their back. Orgeron isn’t even that great of a coach - this past season was more about striking gold and taking advantage of the stars aligning.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on January 20, 2020, 09:30:44 AM
Agree, but then most teams have little shot at making the playoff outside Bama and Clemson and Ohio State.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 20, 2020, 09:33:42 AM
and Bama's lock on the playoff appears to be slipping

down to tOSU and Clemson
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 20, 2020, 09:35:22 AM
I'd like to meet the judge. Have a little talk and all that.
yup, just to hear line of reasoning and judge the judge's competence 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on January 20, 2020, 09:46:16 AM
I'd like to meet the judge. Have a little talk and all that.
Wink-wink,nudge-nudge,how do you ya wanna do it?Manhole covers,cement slippers,chains?We have 'em all at Dirty Dave's Fine Implements - sleep with the fishes MLK Day Sale
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on January 20, 2020, 09:46:32 AM
The judge may have been hamstrung by the wording of the law.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CatsbyAZ on January 20, 2020, 09:48:06 AM
Agree, but then most teams have little shot at making the playoff outside Bama and Clemson and Ohio State.


It’s ESPN reveling in recency bias by trying to hype LSU on par with one of the above three. They do NOT make the playoff next season. LSU goes 8-4 next season, returning to underachieving form.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on January 20, 2020, 09:48:25 AM
As for Bama's "slipping", they were one key injury from making it again, along with a very strange loss at Auburn they could have won easily enough with the backup.  Alabama at 11-1 and a close loss to LSU .... they get in over OU I think.

They are still very deep and talented and will rarely get upset.

LSU might be a 9-3 team next year.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 20, 2020, 09:51:44 AM
Wink-wink,nudge-nudge,how do you ya wanna do it?Manhole covers,cement slippers,chains?We have 'em all at Dirty Dave's Fine Implements - sleep with the fishes MLK Day Sale
Just take him/her fishing to talk. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on January 20, 2020, 09:55:36 AM
Well if old man winter sticks around perhaps some Ice Fishing
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on January 20, 2020, 09:59:04 AM
In other good news, my legs held up pretty well at Fantasy Camp this year.  My shoulder did not however.  My coaches were hoping I could give them 3 innings twice pitching when it counted.  I managed two innings in my first start and then our defense collapsed, and I tried to gun a few pitches to compensate.  My shoulder went BING! and I had to come out.  We lost two games late and our other pitchers were blown.  I told our coach to let me start in the consolation game and he did.  I had found an arm angle that was not as painful, it's not my usual throwing position, I can do overhead and side arm, but not 3/4ers in the past, which is perhaps why the shoulder was somewhat OK with that.  Our other coach told me he'd kick my butt if I pitched well, and dang if I didn't manage four innings of shut out ball, and the game was called because it was consolation and we were close on time.  Then I got to pitch one inning against the former pros and faced the minimum thanks for a double play.

Then our coach, Chris Medlin, threw against us, Holy Cow.  I managed to foul one off and took two balls, and whiffed on three more, he was throwing hard, he told me later the last pitch was at 100% for him, into the 90s.  He's not a big guy but had great torque off the mound.  The ball was sizzlin' coming in.  I choked up as far as I could and was in the back of the box, no help.

One of our guys got a double off him, a fellow who played for Miam, FL a while back and we scored a run, so we "beat" them technically.

This is incredibly fun if you like baseball at all.  Now, off to the gym for next season.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 20, 2020, 10:24:30 AM
Well if old man winter sticks around perhaps some Ice Fishing
making good ice here this morning
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 20, 2020, 10:26:15 AM
In other good news, my legs held up pretty well at Fantasy Camp this year.  My shoulder did not however.  My coaches were hoping I could give them 3 innings twice pitching when it counted.  I managed two innings in my first start and then our defense collapsed, and I tried to gun a few pitches to compensate.  My shoulder went BING! and I had to come out.  We lost two games late and our other pitchers were blown.  I told our coach to let me start in the consolation game and he did.  I had found an arm angle that was not as painful, it's not my usual throwing position, I can do overhead and side arm, but not 3/4ers in the past, which is perhaps why the shoulder was somewhat OK with that.  Our other coach told me he'd kick my butt if I pitched well, and dang if I didn't manage four innings of shut out ball, and the game was called because it was consolation and we were close on time.  Then I got to pitch one inning against the former pros and faced the minimum thanks for a double play.

Then our coach, Chris Medlin, threw against us, Holy Cow.  I managed to foul one off and took two balls, and whiffed on three more, he was throwing hard, he told me later the last pitch was at 100% for him, into the 90s.  He's not a big guy but had great torque off the mound.  The ball was sizzlin' coming in.  I choked up as far as I could and was in the back of the box, no help.

One of our guys got a double off him, a fellow who played for Miam, FL a while back and we scored a run, so we "beat" them technically.

This is incredibly fun if you like baseball at all.  Now, off to the gym for next season.
perhaps talk to a surgeon about the shoulder
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on January 20, 2020, 11:10:00 AM
On my list when we get back Feb. 20 from France.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on January 20, 2020, 11:27:23 AM
Agree, but then most teams have little shot at making the playoff outside Bama and Clemson and Ohio State.
If the subject is making the playoff, not winning it, Oklahoma has been to the playoff four times, once more than Ohio State.
Hasn't won any games while there, obviously, while tOSU has gone 2-2.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on January 20, 2020, 11:30:46 AM
I meant to add OU to my list, really.  If the playoff next year is Clemson, Bama, OSU, OU, nobody will be shocked.  The rest of us will be a bit chagrined, dismayed, umbraged, and claim we have no interest etc.

If we ASSUME the SEC will have a representative, it will likely be from the usual group as well (Bama/LSU/Auburn/UGA/Florida).  UGA has some "unknowns" of course.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 20, 2020, 01:49:21 PM
Many of you have been to my (former) tailgate and probably remember Ol' Joe, with the real stuffed Badger on top of his van.

Well, Joe is no longer with us, as of yesterday. Very sad news.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 20, 2020, 01:51:23 PM
rest in peace Joe

a good man by my limited accounts
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on January 20, 2020, 01:58:00 PM
Sorry about your friend 847
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on January 20, 2020, 03:56:01 PM
One of the players at baseball camp is Brian Finneran, long time WR for the Falcons.  I asked him how many words were in a typical NFL play call in the huddle, it was interesting, he said something like 99 Sadie X Right blah blah.  I didn't get it all.  They communicate a lot in a short period of time.  He noted that some players simply never get it and can't play.  I'd like to hear an example defensive play call, and OL play call, how they call in the line, and then if the DL shifts.

I saw the UGA DL shift quite a bit this past year.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on January 20, 2020, 11:27:00 PM
It's been an eventful fall for the Mrs. and I. We spent two weeks in Italy over the holiday break on our honeymoon. A week in Rome followed by Assisi, Venice, Bologna, Reggio Emilia, and Florence. It was a spectacular trip.  Not too busy. With me being a 1.95m tall guy who speaks English, inevitably the other English speakers We learned a ton about food on this trip, even when we weren't really trying to. Highlights included more wine than I've ever drank in my life, Christmas Eve Mass at St Peters, finding a locals lunch joint in Assisi, cooking classes, the Frecciarossa, fresh tortellini in Bologna, and the New Years Eve demolition of a 800 gram bistecca Florentina and the random dance party that followed. We brought a fair amount of food (wine, cheese, olive oil, and balsamic vinegar) back, and so far when we've used it it's reminded us what food is supposed to taste like.

If anyone is interested in more specifics (restaurants, cooking classes, tours, places to go, etc.), let me know.

We're going to Florida for a wedding on Marco Island this weekend. Considering it's super cold here tonight, the Florida sun will be well appreciated.

I got the sheet of paper that officially says that I'm a Licensed Professional Engineer in the State of Minnesota. Kind of nice.

ELA, to put it mildly, that stinks. Not sure what, if anything, I can say to that, other than to commiserate with you and hope for the best.

RIP Old Joe. A damn good guy. I'll pour out some Old Style for him.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on January 21, 2020, 12:08:39 AM
Sorry for your loss badge
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on January 21, 2020, 08:30:44 AM
Many of you have been to my (former) tailgate and probably remember Ol' Joe, with the real stuffed Badger on top of his van.

Well, Joe is no longer with us, as of yesterday. Very sad news.
Condolences my friend 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 21, 2020, 09:31:36 AM
Thanks guys. I hadn't seen Joe in a couple years - been a while. But this still hits hard. I've known the guy for half of my life.

BaB - you ever walk down Regent and see the stuffed Badger on top of a red van, parked in the lot just East of the flower shop? In earlier days, we were in the hospital lot at Park and Regent. Anyway, if you saw it, that was Old Joe's Badger.

Old Joe and Gator got along really well. Not surprising. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on January 21, 2020, 12:48:39 PM
Condolences on the loss of your friend, bf.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on January 21, 2020, 12:49:19 PM
That's a heck of a year, GR, very nice!  I love Italy, perhaps even more than I love France.  Well, it depends on the day I suppose.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 21, 2020, 12:59:53 PM
Finished the 6' tall cedar picket fence. First time I've ever built a fence, but I think I ended up doing a pretty good job. 

If it had been my house, it would have been better, though. Some areas I was essentially grafting a superstructure on the posts that already existed for the 3' fence along the back of the house, and that existing structure was very old. If I were doing it for myself, I would have ripped that all out and started fresh. But that would have cost more effort and money, and all I'm doing this is as a check-box to get a dog. (And because we had a change in neighbors so I wanted a privacy fence.)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on January 21, 2020, 02:11:23 PM
The judge may have been hamstrung by the wording of the law.
This.

The foster system is no doubt different in every state, but it is a hard system everywhere. Not because anyone wants it that way, but because anytime the courts and government agencies have to step into the making and separating of families, there are sure to be problems.

It sucks.

Sorry, ELA. Saw your wife's post on the FB the other day, too. I feel for you.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: rolltidefan on January 21, 2020, 02:33:10 PM
sorry for your losses, @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) and @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) .

the foster system is f-ed up, but it's people like ela that sacrifice tremendously that can help make life better for the kids. even if just for a while.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 22, 2020, 05:34:15 PM
Just landed in Austin and heading to check out this Live Oak Brewing joint.

I've been told Austin is terrible and that I should never consider moving here. Seems like bluster to me. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on January 22, 2020, 05:55:32 PM
Just landed in Austin and heading to check out this Live Oak Brewing joint.

I've been told Austin is terrible and that I should never consider moving here. Seems like bluster to me.

Nope it's true.  All of it!

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on January 22, 2020, 06:01:47 PM
Just landed in Austin and heading to check out this Live Oak Brewing joint.

I've been told Austin is terrible and that I should never consider moving here. Seems like bluster to me.
@bwarbiany (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) Did you figure out a place for dinner?  The food truck at Live Oak is decent, but not particularly "Austin-y."  I'm not that familiar with restaurants around your hotel, it's basically at the opposite end of town from where I live.

I would definitely suggest Valentina's for breakfast tacos and BBQ in general, it's really good.  It's in South Austin but not really all that close to you.  Leroy And Lewis is another BBQ trailer that's also in South Austin and a little closer to where you're staying.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 22, 2020, 06:07:32 PM
@bwarbiany (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) Did you figure out a place for dinner?  The food truck at Live Oak is decent, but not particularly "Austin-y."  I'm not that familiar with restaurants around your hotel, it's basically at the opposite end of town from where I live.

I would definitely suggest Valentina's for breakfast tacos and BBQ in general, it's really good.  It's in South Austin but not really all that close to you.  Leroy And Lewis is another BBQ trailer that's also in South Austin and a little closer to where you're staying.
Haven't yet, and the food truck appears to be closed today due to the rain. There's pretty much nobody in here. The chalkboard says the food truck runs 2-8 PM on M-F, but it's closed.

Given the rain, I'll probably find something as close to the hotel as possible. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on January 22, 2020, 06:19:26 PM
Haven't yet, and the food truck appears to be closed today due to the rain. There's pretty much nobody in here. The chalkboard says the food truck runs 2-8 PM on M-F, but it's closed.

Given the rain, I'll probably find something as close to the hotel as possible.
@bwarbiany (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) Along 71 between the brewery and the intersection of 71 and I35, is a place called Catfish Parlor that specializes in deep fried catfish, shrimp, and other southern foods.  They have some cajun offerings, as well as chicken fried steak and chicken fried chicken.  It's pretty good and a longtime Austin landmark and institution.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CatsbyAZ on January 22, 2020, 06:55:24 PM
For anyone who is ever wondering what Penn State's Larry Johnson is up to, he's very active on twitter, ranting like an Ancient Aliens episode in his endless promotion of conspiracy theories, especially those pertaining to Satanism, Illuminati, and other world control by the global elite. 90% of his tweets relate to Satanism governing Pop Culture.

Exhibit A:

https://twitter.com/2LarryJohnson7/status/1215805431941083142
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 22, 2020, 07:06:51 PM
@bwarbiany (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) Along 71 between the brewery and the intersection of 71 and I35, is a place called Catfish Parlor that specializes in deep fried catfish, shrimp, and other southern foods.  They have some cajun offerings, as well as chicken fried steak and chicken fried chicken.  It's pretty good and a longtime Austin landmark and institution.

That might be perfect. Especially since I'm confined to Uber. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on January 22, 2020, 07:08:25 PM
That might be perfect. Especially since I'm confined to Uber.
@bwarbiany (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) Cool, hope you like it!  It's family-owned and operated, and I know the family, went to high school with the kids (who now operate the three locations).

Also, I'm interested in which beers you tried at LO, and what you thought of them.

Enjoy your trip!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 22, 2020, 07:14:34 PM
@bwarbiany (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) Cool, hope you like it!  It's family-owned and operated, and I know the family, went to high school with the kids (who now operate the three locations).

Also, I'm interested in which beers you tried at LO, and what you thought of them.

Enjoy your trip!
So far the pilsner, smoked helles, and hefe.

All are clearly expertly made. Wasn't as fond of the smoked helles, but I think that's more that I need to be in the mood for smoked beer and I wasn't completely there today.

The hefe is just how I like them. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on January 22, 2020, 07:26:16 PM
So far the pilsner, smoked helles, and hefe.

All are clearly expertly made. Wasn't as fond of the smoked helles, but I think that's more that I need to be in the mood for smoked beer and I wasn't completely there today.

The hefe is just how I like them.
They do a lot of smoked beers.  I really like them, but you definitely have to be in the mood for it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 22, 2020, 07:31:49 PM
The IPA is a hazy without being labeled as a hazy. Grr. #petpeeve 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on January 22, 2020, 07:34:51 PM
The IPA is a hazy without being labeled as a hazy. Grr. #petpeeve
I warned you not to order an IPA anyway. :)  Their European styles are excellent, that's their bread and butter.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2020, 07:56:38 PM
thought of Bwarb,

https://vinepair.com/articles/sous-vide-homebrewing/ (https://vinepair.com/articles/sous-vide-homebrewing/)

Brewing equipment can be expensive, though, and many tools only have one purpose (what else are you going to put in that conical fermenter?). For this reason, upgrades to better equipment can be cost-prohibitive. One emerging method that’s catching on in the homebrewer circuit is sous vide homebrewing, which, depending on your budget, is a relatively affordable way to up your homebrewing game. It does this via the sous vide immersion circulator: a tool priced around $100 that maintains water bath temperature within extreme precision — 0.1 degrees Fahrenheit — for long periods of time.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 22, 2020, 08:08:12 PM
I warned you not to order an IPA anyway. :)  Their European styles are excellent, that's their bread and butter.

The IPA wasn't bad. I just hate when they don't tell you a hazy is coming out. 

This restaurant is a trip. The Uber driver said "it looks like a strip club sign" lol. I've determined I like this even before tasting the food ! 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on January 22, 2020, 08:31:53 PM
The IPA wasn't bad. I just hate when they don't tell you a hazy is coming out.

This restaurant is a trip. The Uber driver said "it looks like a strip club sign" lol. I've determined I like this even before tasting the food !
Hasn't changed in 30+ years!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2020, 02:25:11 PM
What You Need to Know About German Barbecue

https://www.thespruceeats.com/german-barbecue-cooking-335803 (https://www.thespruceeats.com/german-barbecue-cooking-335803)

Most importantly, the Germans brought us brisket. Brisket was considered a worthless cut of meat in the United States and usually ground up for chili or stew. The old German tradition placed tough brisket in a Dutch oven to cook low and slow until tender. It wasn't until the 1950s when a couple of German butchers put a brisket in a smoker to make modern Texas Barbecue.

The great thing about ordering food in restaurants in New Braunfels and Fredericksburg is that you can get a plate of BBQ ribs, German sausage, potato salad, and baked beans without knowing which is Texan and which is German. Fredericksburg (west of Austin by 100 miles or so), used to be a German-speaking town. Now, with the exception of a few German cultural festivals, these places are all American.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on January 23, 2020, 02:34:50 PM
Yup, heavy German influence in Fredericksburg, New Braunfels, and a few other CenTex towns.  Also, a lot of Czechs, which is we we love kolaches and klobasnek so much.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2020, 03:08:57 PM
We stopped for kolaches in West twice, once on the south bound side and once on the north bound.

can't say which I thought were better - more research needed next month

the link sausage with swiss cheese and kraut are my fav
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on January 23, 2020, 03:13:05 PM
We stopped for kolaches in West twice, once on the south bound side and once on the north bound.

can't say which I thought were better - more research needed next month

the link sausage with swiss cheese and kraut are my fav
Man now I'm hungry for kolaches.

Technically only the fruit/cheese ones are kolaches, the meat/savory ones are klobasnek.  But folks just refer to all of them as kolaches, so there you have it.

And yes the sausage, sauerkraut, and Swiss is one of my faves as well.  I also like the sausage, cheddar, and jalapeno.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2020, 04:32:30 PM
klobasnek?  good  to know!

not as bad as folks here referring to all meat cooked outdoors as BBQ  :91:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2020, 04:34:54 PM
I'm hungry for them now.  Closest option is a Nebraska Czech town called Verdigre about 100 miles west.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on January 23, 2020, 04:55:22 PM
You do know the Czech Museum is in Cedar Rapids?  Yes more than 100miles for you but lots of Czechs and Czech goodies,  which in all candor,  most Czech food specialties aren't all that great. I blame the varied ruthless rulers of Czechoslovakia over time.  Washed out a lot of culture.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on January 23, 2020, 05:35:31 PM
We've got a couple of Czech towns in Oklahoma--Prague and Yukon.  They both have big Czech festivals with lots of Czech goodies.

I earlier days, I used to hit a kolache stop on the east side of I-35 in West by God Texas pretty frequently.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2020, 07:50:55 PM
the newer place on the west side of the road is solid

Slovacek’s has a meat market................

Since 1957 Slovacek’s has been providing Texas with all kinds of fabulous smoked sausage. Since 1893 Nemecek Bros. has been providing West with their famous ring bologna, weiners and Hot Chubbies. Well, these traditions became permanently linked in 2012 at Slovacek’s West. You can find all of those delectable offerings and more. Our expert meat team has stuffed pork tenderloins and chicken breasts with an array of meats and cheeses. There is something for everyone. If you want steak or burgers for the grill, we can help with that, too! Make sure to either bring that cooler, or take home an insulated Slovacek’s bag so you can enjoy more Slovacek taste on your own dinner table!

If you need an on the go afternoon snack, our beef jerky spread (available plain or with sweet jalapeno) is the be-all, end-all of dips! It is so tasty it requires a 12 step program to quit it! Made from Beef Jerky, Cream Cheese and mayo with a special blend of spices, this dip is sure to be a hit.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on January 24, 2020, 12:55:45 PM
Paris is cold with horrible traffic due to protests.  Manifestations.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 24, 2020, 01:14:58 PM
Paris is cold with horrible traffic due to protests.  Manifestations.
I find it a bit funny that the smug Parisians, who look down on our American way of life and believe they're superior, have their city completely shut down on a regular basis by Parisians who think that life is so crappy that they have to take to the streets in strike and protest...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 24, 2020, 01:27:18 PM
(https://i.imgflip.com/3n3q10.jpg)

Figured I'd make this just for funsies...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on January 24, 2020, 01:38:47 PM
FF..

In nebraska, the best Kolaches I've had lately are at the Wahoo bakery in downtown Wahoo.   They have that softer dough that almost melts in your mouth.  If you prefer the more coffee dunkable dough (like my mom does), Wilber has some great places... but that would be a haul for you.    Wahoo is just north of Lincoln when you're in town. 

My grandma (dad's side) made some of the best kolaches (style I like as well) and rolls.  Her secret was discovered in her 80's...  She would boil potatoes and only use that water for her baking.  Came from when she was first married and they had to hand pump water from the well.  You reused everything.  The extra starch really made her baking incredible.  She also cooked for the local HS in Brianard (East Butler... home of the Mackovicka brothers).   My cousins (mom's side) still talk about their school rolls being some of the best.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 24, 2020, 03:22:59 PM
Great to know............

Wahoo is on my route to Lincoln from Sewer City If I do NOT take I-29.  Been to a couple bars in Wahoo many times.

didn't know about the bakery unless I've forgotten over the years.

Slovacek’s on the west side of I-35 in West, TX has the softer dough than the bakery on the East side.

My Grandmother (Dad's side) made some of the best cinnamon rolls in the area.  She also cooked at the local high school.  one of the best days in school was chili soup and cinnamon rolls!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on January 24, 2020, 03:54:45 PM
I find it a bit funny that the smug Parisians, who look down on our American way of life and believe they're superior, have their city completely shut down on a regular basis by Parisians who think that life is so crappy that they have to take to the streets in strike and protest...
Believing one's way of life to be superior while simultaneously crapping on one's own surrounding is in some ways the human condition. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on January 24, 2020, 04:03:33 PM
Wahoo!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: iahawk15 on January 24, 2020, 04:31:16 PM
You do know the Czech Museum is in Cedar Rapids?  Yes more than 100miles for you but lots of Czechs and Czech goodies,  which in all candor,  most Czech food specialties aren't all that great. I blame the varied ruthless rulers of Czechoslovakia over time.  Washed out a lot of culture.
I live 35-40 mins west of there. The original museum was destoyed in the 2008 flood. I haven't been to either.

While I don't live in a Czech town, there's a couple major "Bohemie" communities close enough to influence the desserts in every public / church function in the area.

Being a Swede, I find kolaches a bit lacking in sweetness. Give some Swedish tea ring or a nice big danish.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 24, 2020, 04:42:16 PM
Sauerkraut is sweet enough for me
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on January 24, 2020, 05:05:08 PM
As I conceded most Czech food stinks.  People seem to like kolaches,  I don't care for them.  There are some good stews and other dishes but German versions are superior.  Czechs do make fine pilsner and drink more beer than any country .   I just walk the earth with the four consecutive consonant surname that 1 in 100 pronounce correctly. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on January 24, 2020, 07:16:19 PM
Sauerkraut is sweet enough for me

And that sweet, sweet Swiss cheese, too!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on January 25, 2020, 08:16:38 AM
France is gloomy, with weird showers designed by some douche.

The wife liked that our sheets at the Hilton Opera had been ironed though.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 25, 2020, 08:26:59 AM
god bless ya, Cincy

yer a good husband

not sure I could do trips to Paris regularly
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on January 25, 2020, 08:57:31 AM


Being a Swede, I find kolaches a bit lacking in sweetness. Give some Swedish tea ring or a nice big danish.
My brother's wife's family is from Racine, Wisconsin. We always get O&H danish kringles from them at Christmastime. We brought ours to my in-laws and ate the whole thing in one sitting. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 25, 2020, 09:07:48 AM
gee, I wonder who ate half of it?  ;)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on January 25, 2020, 09:11:21 AM
gee, I wonder who ate half of it?  ;)
Actually, my FIL did. They'd never heard of kringle before. They do now. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on January 25, 2020, 09:26:37 AM
My brother's wife's family is from Racine, Wisconsin. We always get O&H danish kringles from them at Christmastime. We brought ours to my in-laws and ate the whole thing in one sitting.
My wife has me smuggle back about 15 kringles from O&H for her partners.  Saves about 50% compared to ordering.   I recall delivering one to the staff in her group and they annihilated it wo delay.    Pecan and almond are my faves.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on January 25, 2020, 09:41:37 AM
god bless ya, Cincy

yer a good husband

not sure I could do trips to Paris regularly
I love trips to Paris.  But winter is not a great time to be there.

My first extended work trip to France had me spending 4 months there, from February into June.  The first couple months were no fun as far as weather, but the second couple months really made up for it.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 25, 2020, 09:52:59 AM
well, I've never been to France, perhaps I'd enjoy it.

I'm doubtful, but I'm wrong more often than right
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2020, 10:06:24 AM
Kringles are becoming far-reaching. We are able to get them fresh in one of our local grocery stores now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on January 25, 2020, 10:12:53 AM
We are staying now in a tiny village well outside Paris taking care of the grandkids.

This is a one pub village.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on January 25, 2020, 10:33:57 AM
We walked about ten blocks last night in Paris and I noted three McDonald's, three Starbucks, two burger kings, and a Pizza Hut, in Paris.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 25, 2020, 07:51:12 PM
Did you stop for a Royale with Cheese? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on January 25, 2020, 11:00:05 PM
Menu Big Mac avec biere s'il vou plait

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on January 26, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
We are staying now in a tiny village well outside Paris taking care of the grandkids.

This is a one pub village.
Shameful,how late is it open?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on January 27, 2020, 04:43:00 PM
We are staying now in a tiny village well outside Paris taking care of the grandkids.

This is a one pub village.
Does said pub have a jukebox full of big band music with a beagle getting drunk on root beer?

https://youtu.be/YeGqp4E8azY
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on January 28, 2020, 02:19:26 AM
Not going to make it to watch 5th set.  Pretty amazing match between SEC man Tennys Sandgren and Federererererer.  Rog fought off 7 match points to stay alive.  A few really odd moments too, with Federer getting fined for uttering an obscenity.  Tennys was taken out sort of by a ball boy, or court assistant between switches during the tiebreaker,and was hobbling.  A few odd points where it looked like Tennys deked Roger successfully.

I don't think a collegiate player has reached a semis in a very long time.  Guess I'll watch 5th in morning.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2020, 04:38:47 AM
Have been down with a GI malady, and the weather sucks.  Something here gets my digestives every time.

Oh, and the young fellow who had open heart surgery came home two days ago and is feeling his oats apparently.  His incision is almost healed completely. Nhe is bouncing around the house now.

He had his heart stopped for twenty minutes.  Amazing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 28, 2020, 09:27:10 AM
amazing

good for him!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2020, 09:32:24 AM
Went to lunch at the pub, or bistro.  Was typically good, had a fire going which is nice in this weather.  They keep the house quite cool here.  The town is bigger than I first thought.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on January 28, 2020, 11:41:56 AM
I don't mind having a pint or glass of wine at a pub/bistro with a warm hearth, in the midst of French winter.  There are worse places to be. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 28, 2020, 12:56:03 PM
like Minneapolis
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on January 28, 2020, 12:59:21 PM
like Minneapolis
I don't know man, I sure could go for a Jucy Lucy at Matt's right about now...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 28, 2020, 01:00:34 PM
there are plenty of good choices for food in that area

and those Gopher fans can drink!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2020, 09:34:24 PM
and those Gopher fans can drink!
They've been slamming Hamm's up there for quite some time
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2020, 06:01:09 AM
Another walk today, a bit warmer and faint sun.  The WW One memorial has 19 names on it, four sets with the same surname.  It is hard to imagine there were 19 men of military age living here in 1914.  The injured are not listed.  One American flyer has his own plaque.

This is why the Maginot Line was built.

Nineteen men, from a tiny village.  Many may have died of disease, or the Spanish flu.

Hard to imagine.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 29, 2020, 10:06:31 AM
Hi, I'm Jake!

(https://i.imgur.com/LN89a6c.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/wYODjK5.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 29, 2020, 10:18:16 AM
Mrs. 847 wants to get a dog when she retires, which is very soon. Aside from the painfully obvious problems presented by our travel habits, there is another major issue for me, which I've stated here on occasion.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2020, 10:18:48 AM
Jake looks great.:):88:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on January 29, 2020, 11:29:26 AM
Mrs. 847 wants to get a dog when she retires, which is very soon. Aside from the painfully obvious problems presented by our travel habits, there is another major issue for me, which I've stated here on occasion.
My wife and I have a pet ban in our marriage.  I'm badly allergic to cats and some dogs and would be a bad pet owner.  Add in the travel and irregular departures, it wouldn't work.  
I like other people's dogs.  Vicarious experience.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2020, 11:45:19 AM
Mrs. 847 wants to get a dog when she retires, which is very soon. Aside from the painfully obvious problems presented by our travel habits, there is another major issue for me, which I've stated here on occasion.
the naked hairy man issue?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2020, 11:47:19 AM
I would love to have dogs, but basically cannot except perhaps some quasi yapped dog which I would not want.

Jake is my kind of dog.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2020, 11:49:58 AM
Jake and I would quickly become buddies for life
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on January 29, 2020, 11:53:36 AM
I love dogs, but haven't owned one in over a decade. My life is too involved to give a dog the proper attention.

I inherited a cat when I married my wife. Freddy might as well be a dog with the way he acts, but at least he can fend for himself on a long weekend.

Freddy is 15 years old and I know I will not want another cat when he dies (Vet says he has quite a number of years left in him). I am not sure where the wife falls into the discussion at the moment. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on January 29, 2020, 12:09:42 PM
the naked hairy man issue?
:043:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on January 29, 2020, 12:11:59 PM
I love dogs, but haven't owned one in over a decade. My life is too involved to give a dog the proper attention.

I inherited a cat when I married my wife. Freddy might as well be a dog with the way he acts, but at least he can fend for himself on a long weekend.

Freddy is 15 years old and I know I will not want another cat when he dies (Vet says he has quite a number of years left in him). I am not sure where the wife falls into the discussion at the moment.


A dog could fend for himself,he could eat the cat or anyone crawling thru a window.Can't help you with the piles though.Wanted to get a dog but the Mrs. got the parrots and are already family and they'd freak
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2020, 12:15:25 PM
I put in a doggy door for my daughters small naked hairy man wanna be - the backyard is more than 100' x 100'

she can leave enough food and water for him to survive a long weekend or more

he leaves small piles and he's good about leaving them in the yard

his life doesn't suck

He appreciates that I am a porterhouse/T-bone guy and also enjoy the bone in ribeyes and strips.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on January 29, 2020, 07:59:07 PM
They've been slamming Hamm's up there for quite some time
The first beer commercial I ever saw was one for Hamm's.
"From the land of sky-blue wa-aters,
Comes the water best for brewing . . ."
I think we were living in Clovis, NM, and I was 6 or 7.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on January 29, 2020, 08:00:04 PM
Another walk today, a bit warmer and faint sun.  The WW One memorial has 19 names on it, four sets with the same surname.  It is hard to imagine there were 19 men of military age living here in 1914.  The injured are not listed.  One American flyer has his own plaque.

This is why the Maginot Line was built.

Nineteen men, from a tiny village.  Many may have died of disease, or the Spanish flu.

Hard to imagine.
Do you remember who the American flyer was?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on January 29, 2020, 10:02:47 PM
Hey Jake! I think it wouldn't take long before Jake and I were fast friends.

I inherited a dog when I married my wife. He's a show-bred springier spaniel that occasionally makes rocks intelligent. Helped her get through some rough spots. Also very good about leaving the piles out in the yard. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2020, 10:54:52 AM
The other thing about Paris is that it is on the same latitude as Montreal, so it gets dark early here.  The wife says we can move to Fontainebleau in a week or so, that would be nice, quieter, and we have friends there.

I might stroll down to the local bar for something.

Jack Daniels is everywhere here, often spelled Jacque, no kidding.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 30, 2020, 11:22:10 AM
premium price for the import?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on January 30, 2020, 11:27:39 AM
I might stroll down to the local bar for something.

Jack Daniels is everywhere here, often spelled Jacque, no kidding.
Sacrebleu for the hang over,I'd go with Beam if they have it.Remember reading how GIs would find Calvados and toss that back,some sort of Brandy
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2020, 11:54:53 AM
Calvados is distilled apple cider from Normandy.

I do not like JD at all.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2020, 11:38:01 AM
"DOW down sharply as coronavirus keeps investors on edge"


What a crock o' chit, these people. Keep emotions out of it, or get the hell out of the kitchen and let the real investors cook.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on January 31, 2020, 11:42:52 AM
...animal spirits...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2020, 11:53:03 AM
"DOW down sharply as coronavirus keeps investors on edge"


What a crock o' chit, these people. Keep emotions out of it, or get the hell out of the kitchen and let the real investors cook.
Actually it might have some serious effects. 

China has already extended the New Year holiday by several days, and individual provinces may extend it up to another week more. Throughout Asia I think there are other countries doing the same. That in itself is a significant drag to business this quarter. 

In many ways, this is an event already probably greater in magnitude and disruption than the Japanese earthquake/tsunami a couple years ago. That caused major disruption to the markets for electronic components. But I think its effects were limited to certain specialized components, whereas China is a huge supplier of basically everything. 

Beyond that, we don't know exactly how far and badly this will spread. Travel restrictions, extended holidays in Asia, and other related supply chain disruptions can have a lot of downstream effects. This is akin to a major natural disaster occurring there, but perhaps worse in that the true scope isn't yet known. 

I've had meetings with quite a few customers this week and one of the main topics of conversation was whether, and to what extent, coronavirus would disrupt supply chains for electronic components. If you can't get components you need, you can't build products, and then you can't sell what you didn't build, so companies will see nonzero revenue disruption from this event. Investors *should* be wary. 

(As with anything else, of course, there are opportunities here. Shortages mean higher prices for certain components, which means higher profits for the suppliers of those components who are unaffected by the disruption, but lower profits for the users of those components. So there will be pockets of companies who benefit from this as well as those who will suffer.)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on January 31, 2020, 12:08:48 PM
All true.

And beyond that, electrical and electronic subcomponent assemblies aside, companies running lean BTO inventory models on finished goods will certainly be affected within a couple of weeks. 

Ask me how I know... :0



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2020, 01:06:22 PM
They had Four Roses at the bar in addition to JD.  Huh.

Their food is solid.  We are headed to Orleans in a week, the Old version.  Nice looking B and B.  Then Fontainebleau.

This is too long a stay for me, weather is awful.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 31, 2020, 01:18:31 PM
I blame all the problems in China on Bobby Stoops!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on January 31, 2020, 01:27:50 PM
They had Four Roses at the bar in addition to JD.  Huh.

Their food is solid.  We are headed to Orleans in a week, the Old version.  Nice looking B and B.  Then Fontainebleau.

This is too long a stay for me, weather is awful.
I think it would be a lovely stay in... say... May or June.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2020, 01:29:36 PM
I think it would be a lovely stay in... say... May or June.
The problem is, so does everyone else.

I'm the type that will GLADLY accept poor weather if it means less crowds. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2020, 01:31:43 PM
Yeah.  This is my third visit in Dec to Feb.  Not recommended, at all.

I nearly froze in Verdun a few years back, nice town, horrible battle site, unbelievable.  Grim, dark, how can humans do that?

My poor wife, I drag her to these things...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2020, 01:33:03 PM
Paris gets crowds.  The rest of France can be very nice in April and May.  Lyon is great.  People go to Paris to check boxes.

Blech.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 31, 2020, 02:10:02 PM
"DOW down sharply as coronavirus keeps investors on edge"


What a crock o' chit, these people. Keep emotions out of it, or get the hell out of the kitchen and let the real investors cook.
buy low, sell high
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2020, 02:32:13 PM
Actually it might have some serious effects.

China has already extended the New Year holiday by several days, and individual provinces may extend it up to another week more. Throughout Asia I think there are other countries doing the same. That in itself is a significant drag to business this quarter.

In many ways, this is an event already probably greater in magnitude and disruption than the Japanese earthquake/tsunami a couple years ago. That caused major disruption to the markets for electronic components. But I think its effects were limited to certain specialized components, whereas China is a huge supplier of basically everything.

Beyond that, we don't know exactly how far and badly this will spread. Travel restrictions, extended holidays in Asia, and other related supply chain disruptions can have a lot of downstream effects. This is akin to a major natural disaster occurring there, but perhaps worse in that the true scope isn't yet known.

I've had meetings with quite a few customers this week and one of the main topics of conversation was whether, and to what extent, coronavirus would disrupt supply chains for electronic components. If you can't get components you need, you can't build products, and then you can't sell what you didn't build, so companies will see nonzero revenue disruption from this event. Investors *should* be wary.

(As with anything else, of course, there are opportunities here. Shortages mean higher prices for certain components, which means higher profits for the suppliers of those components who are unaffected by the disruption, but lower profits for the users of those components. So there will be pockets of companies who benefit from this as well as those who will suffer.)
I just came back from lunch with my advisor (40 years experience). Not to worry on this one, with the allocations I'm in.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2020, 02:33:01 PM
buy low, sell high
That is a good way to go broke. Trying to hit those targets is like playing roulette, and I only know one person who got rich of that. He no longer posts here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 31, 2020, 02:56:37 PM
well, my next couple 401K Roth purchases will probably be at a lower price than the last couple

and I won't be selling for years
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2020, 03:07:33 PM
International is not the place to be right now, especially Asia. Some pharma and most medical devices are good. If you stick in the S&P, you're mostly pretty good.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on January 31, 2020, 03:21:12 PM
I have some international, but a low percentage. probably less than 15%

for this reason
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2020, 03:41:05 PM
I'm at 10% right now. They are not doing well, as a whole, but you technically don't lose money if you don't take it out. That's one thing many people don't get.

People have lost more money overreacting than if they would have stuck it out. 

(https://tradingeconomics.com/charts/facebook.png?url=/united-states/stock-market)


Just draw a line from start to finish. People who lost money this year in the market are the ones who reacted on emotion, likely in June, August and October. Oops.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on January 31, 2020, 03:53:01 PM
I blame all the problems in China on Bobby Stoops!
All the puppies he stomped are blowing snot bubbles that are landing behind the Great Wall
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on January 31, 2020, 03:55:40 PM
This will only affect supply chains in the relatively short term.  Anyone reacting to this and pulling money out of the types of companies that manufacture in China and sell globally, would be overreacting in a dramatic way.  

But, that's what people do, so there you have it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on January 31, 2020, 03:57:08 PM
or get the hell out of the kitchen and let the real investors cook.
That's what I used to say at the betting window because I'm an aggessive investor.......not a real bright one though
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2020, 04:02:22 PM
This will only affect supply chains in the relatively short term.  Anyone reacting to this and pulling money out of the types of companies that manufacture in China and sell globally, would be overreacting in a dramatic way. 

But, that's what people do, so there you have it.
Exactly. Long-term, this is a blip. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm generally the buy-and-hold type. I won't be 65 for 24 more years, so I'm not worried about this at all. For me any temporary downturn in the market is nothing more than dollar cost averaging as I regularly acquire.

Short-term, it's meaningful. If you're an active short-term investor, you need to have your finger on the pulse of all things like this. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2020, 04:17:08 PM
I did better than expected last year, even with trimming in August.  I cannot time markets.  I know that.

I get lucky at times.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on January 31, 2020, 04:42:39 PM
That is a good way to go broke. Trying to hit those targets is like playing roulette, and I only know one person who got rich of that. He no longer posts here.
GATOR prolly
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2020, 04:57:32 PM
Nope. Tennessee fan.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: rolltidefan on January 31, 2020, 05:02:01 PM
that tenn fan?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on January 31, 2020, 05:10:02 PM
That's his handle or a hint?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on January 31, 2020, 05:20:36 PM
Exactly. Long-term, this is a blip. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm generally the buy-and-hold type. I won't be 65 for 24 more years, so I'm not worried about this at all. For me any temporary downturn in the market is nothing more than dollar cost averaging as I regularly acquire.

Short-term, it's meaningful. If you're an active short-term investor, you need to have your finger on the pulse of all things like this.
I remember a friend of mine, smart guy, asked me how leveraged and inverse ETFs and mutual funds should be used.  He wanted to bet against oil markets one time.  I just said, not by guys like you.  Talk about playing with matches while soaked in kerosene. 

For every John Paulson there are 100 others with the same idea, they just get the timing all wrong.  You'll get your face crushed.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2020, 05:24:13 PM
That's his handle or a hint?
Hint.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2020, 05:24:26 PM
that tenn fan?
Heh.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2020, 05:25:25 PM
I remember a friend of mine, smart guy, asked me how leveraged and inverse ETFs and mutual funds should be used.  He wanted to bet against oil markets one time.  I just said, not by guys like you.  Talk about playing with matches while soaked in kerosene. 

For every John Paulson there are 100 others with the same idea, they just get the timing all wrong.  You'll get your face crushed.
Exactly. I like the "face crushed" thing too. I think I'll use that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on January 31, 2020, 05:26:44 PM
There was some guy name VolFan or sumsuch.I'd spit my Yuengling out if you're talking Crunchymaximus
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2020, 05:27:35 PM
You better start spitting.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on January 31, 2020, 05:28:01 PM
Exactly. I like the "face crushed" thing too. I think I'll use that.
Is face crushed something John Paulson said?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on January 31, 2020, 05:29:22 PM
You better start spitting.
GTFO,no fookin' way,he beat the market?well I'm not spittin' out Yuengling unless he's buyin.How'd ya know all that about him?Isn't he the one claiming that the Vols were gonna roll everyone at the beginning of every year?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2020, 05:57:16 PM
GTFO,no fookin' way,he beat the market?well I'm not spittin' out Yuengling unless he's buyin.How'd ya know all that about him?Isn't he the one claiming that the Vols were gonna roll everyone at the beginning of every year?
No, he claimed to have beaten roulette, which was my analogy to trying to time the market.


CDawg knows more about this than me, as far as the beating roulette claims go.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on January 31, 2020, 07:33:30 PM
Is face crushed something John Paulson said?
No, I just said it.  Paulson?  I cant remember the last public statement I've heard from him.  He's reclusive as any big fish out there.

A useful reminder, there's always somebody on the other side of your great idea (trade).

Since this is a cfb board, the face crushing ties into the subject.  Larry Munson described a late UGA TD vs the Vols in 2001 the same way.  'We stepped on their face with a hobnail boot and broke their nose.  We crushed their face.'
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on January 31, 2020, 08:09:02 PM
Btw, even Paulson managed to get crushed a few years after nailing the subprime call in 07/08.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2020, 10:11:39 PM
The Florida house is a done deal. Holy sheep shit (As the great Cheech said)!

We're moving!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 01, 2020, 12:09:50 AM
#floridaman 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2020, 02:16:53 AM
I Hope he does not become a Gator fan ...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 01, 2020, 06:05:19 AM
The Florida house is a done deal. Holy sheep shit (As the great Cheech said)!

We're moving!!
Congratulations!  From one Midwesterner to another, Welcome to Florida.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2020, 06:09:44 AM
Moving was very very hard for me.  I,left a lot of stuff behind.

It was exhausting, but worth it longer term.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2020, 06:27:41 AM
There were 34,000 deaths in the US last year from the regular flu.  Why does this Corona thing get such out sized attention?  Perspective.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2020, 06:39:27 AM
The Florida house is a done deal. Holy sheep shit (As the great Cheech said)!

We're movin
As FF says corngrats,did you retire yet?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2020, 06:51:17 AM
Btw, even Paulson managed to get crushed a few years after nailing the subprime call in 07/08.
I think that's the guy I saw profiled on a PBS segment
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on February 01, 2020, 09:27:42 AM
I Hope he does not become a Gator fan ...
So long as he doesn't wear jorts, he'll be fine. 

Congratulations!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on February 01, 2020, 09:29:48 AM
Then again, the place where we had lunch on Sunday (Stan's Idle Hour Bar in Goodview), there were ample quantities of both jorts and Gator memorabilia...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on February 01, 2020, 10:11:04 AM
Speaking of Florida,  nice win by down under by Floridian via Russia Sofia Kenin in the ladies final, the 'other' young U.S. tennis prodigy.  She handled the much more hyped, 15 year old Coco Gauff last weekend. Kenin is 21 now, but surprising to me, the youngest women's slam winner since Serena in '02.     Kid wears her emotions out on court, and impressive power for being fairly small.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 01, 2020, 10:27:16 AM
So long as he doesn't wear jorts, he'll be fine.

Congratulations!
Thanks to all.
Jorts… I don't even wear jeans. As in almost never. So I can't cut them off if I don't have any. :)


I'm not retired, and I won't be. I can't (it would drive me nuts to not work). I'll work from there and come up here for a week per month to keep things fresh. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2020, 12:16:39 PM
I am busier being retired than I was when I was working.  I realize I had an unusual job situation.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 01, 2020, 02:06:43 PM
I've heard others say that. I think much of that depends on how well one sets himself up for retirement. 

Can't do a whole lot if there's no money. I've seen that too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 01, 2020, 02:11:56 PM
a meme on bookface nailed it... a person was asked "how many people work for your company?" and the reply was "eh, maybe 40%?"... i'm thinking this is not only true in most office environments, but also a high estimate...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 01, 2020, 03:12:52 PM
The Florida house is a done deal. Holy sheep shit (As the great Cheech said)!

We're moving!!
Corngrats amigo!


Can't wait to see YOUR reaction to Florida Man. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 01, 2020, 03:16:05 PM
The boy took second among all Webelos in Pinewood Derby today.  More importantly had had a great time building, painting, and accessorizing his car.  Good times!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 01, 2020, 03:22:46 PM
The boy took second among all Webelos in Pinewood Derby today.  More importantly had had a great time building, painting, and accessorizing his car.  Good times!

next time let me know!!! i picked up a cnc router DIRT cheap- $800 for a router valued at near $20k- and the things it can do are amazing.  One of the 'plans' i've encountered in the 'craft' section are derby cars... can scale it however- from large enough for a kid to ride in to small enough for the little tracks they build for them... the cool part, though, is the sides can be engraved and look however you want- STILL a project for the kid as they have to put them together, but a LOT different than anything else you may encounter. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 01, 2020, 03:33:55 PM
There really aren't "Florida Man" where we are going. I think that's more North and central.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 01, 2020, 03:38:11 PM
next time let me know!!! i picked up a cnc router DIRT cheap- $800 for a router valued at near $20k- and the things it can do are amazing.  One of the 'plans' i've encountered in the 'craft' section are derby cars... can scale it however- from large enough for a kid to ride in to small enough for the little tracks they build for them... the cool part, though, is the sides can be engraved and look however you want- STILL a project for the kid as they have to put them together, but a LOT different than anything else you may encounter.
Thanks man!  This is likely our last one, since next year he'll probably have moved up to Boy Scouts before the PWD.  But I'll keep it in mind. :)
There really aren't "Florida Man" where we are going. I think that's more North and central.

Yeah, where you're headed, there's just a bunch of old farts. ;)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 01, 2020, 03:42:50 PM
In our development (marina resort community), I'm told the average age is 56, so I'll help bring that down a tad.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 01, 2020, 04:02:49 PM
There really aren't "Florida Man" where we are going. I think that's more North and central.
Hehe, actuallyyyyyyyy....
Florida man territory is statewide - starting 10 miles inland from the entire coastline of the state. 
He's in every big city and runs every small town.  
.
The extra, most-bestest Florida Man regions are around the Everglades, the whole area west of I-75/south of I-10, and the northern edge of the panhandle.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 01, 2020, 04:07:08 PM
The SEC distributed $651 million to its members.  That's behind the $729 the Big Ten handed out.  Wait until the next TV deal....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 01, 2020, 04:09:07 PM
A couple years ago we drove from West Palm Beach to Captiva.

Middle Florida is, umm, interesting.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 01, 2020, 04:42:46 PM
The boy took second among all Webelos in Pinewood Derby today.  More importantly had had a great time building, painting, and accessorizing his car.  Good times!

Nice! I remember mine... 

...it was obvious my dad built it lol. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 01, 2020, 06:25:59 PM
The first year I did it, I played with mine in the sand, so it barely made it down the track, lol.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on February 01, 2020, 06:34:12 PM
There really aren't "Florida Man" where we are going. I think that's more North and central.
There was plenty of Florida Man on Marco Island last weekend.

I also believe the saying that the further north you go in Florida, the further into the South one gets. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 01, 2020, 07:06:35 PM
Marco is a magnet for a lot of people who don't actually live there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on February 01, 2020, 07:13:29 PM
Marco is a magnet for a lot of people who don't actually live there.
While I love that JW on Marco Island, that island is a food desert.  It does seem to be heavily snowbirds. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on February 02, 2020, 12:26:00 PM
Meerkats are in the mongoose family.  A group of them is a mob.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 02, 2020, 01:02:27 PM
time to brew the SB chili

crank up the rock & roll and get in the kitchen!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 02, 2020, 01:38:25 PM
smoked a rib roast yesterday- wrapped in a foil and a towel, then the fridge with it's blanket still on it... will pull it out in a few and start carving.  

real simple and fantastic hand foods for the game:  
- 6~8# smoked rib eye roast to internal of 105*~110*.. pulled and wrapped.
- 100 flour tortillas of the 6~8" variety
- four or five bell peppers depending on size. 
- couple sweet onions
- mozzarella cheese shredded, maybe a 1# bag to make it easy...

strip the peppers into 2" strips no wider than 1/8th inch... slice onions into slivers too- about same width...  strip the rib eye into strips 2~4" and 1/4" or so wide.  

fire up the griddle... a little bit of avocado oil... toss a pile of the rib eye, onions, and peppers on one side low heat, and douse it every so often with whatever spice you use (i use a bottle of soy sauce mixed with a bit of apple vinegar and hot sauce, touched with lemon juice, and it adds nice zest).. clear the other side of the griddle with a nice glaze of oil but no more, and at medium heat... start slapping the tortillas on the griddle 'big bubble' up (look at the face of the tortillas and you'll see one side has tiny bubbles the other big ones)... spread a little bit of cheese around the perimeter of the tortilla (a little goes a long way), and dress the interior with the onions/peppers on one side and beef on the other... fold it over itself, let it toast 30 seconds or so, and flip it over for another 30 seconds or so- use that minute to get the next two or three going.  

i'll serve these in the little baskets with waxed paper liners, and offer sour cream and salsa for dipping.  

it seems like a waste for a rib eye, but dang are they good... and, i picked the rib eye up for $40 regular price $105, so, it was actually cheaper than the sirloin i usually use for this trick. 

other than the time in the smoker, the entire thing takes less than an hour and clean up is simple... but beware: folks will ask you for these from now on. and they're SO simple. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 02, 2020, 02:04:54 PM
time to brew the SB chili

crank up the rock & roll and get in the kitchen!!!

If it's for tonight, then YESTERDAY was actually the appropriate time to brew it up. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2020, 02:23:39 PM
Give the pot stirrer a break it's getting warmer above the Mason - Dixon.Prolly hit the links
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2020, 02:44:47 PM
How's this for gourmet:
I cooked a couple of ham steaks on the George Foreman and threw some shredded cheese between them, stacked on my plate - gooey deliciousness. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 02, 2020, 02:46:15 PM
Doing pork belly burnt ends two ways today... 

https://www.vindulge.com/smoked-pork-belly-burnt-ends-recipe-and-video/

https://blog.thermoworks.com/pork/asian-pork-burnt-ends/
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2020, 02:49:37 PM
They served parmentier de canard for dinner.  It is OK, a bit stringy like.  The son in law is a CIA graduate, but his cuisine is not really to my liking that much.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 02, 2020, 02:55:16 PM
They served parmentier de canard for dinner.  It is OK, a bit stringy like.  The son in law is a CIA graduate, but his cuisine is not really to my liking that much.
How were the potatoes?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 02, 2020, 03:05:15 PM
If it's for tonight, then YESTERDAY was actually the appropriate time to brew it up. :)
I enjoy it fresh and a day or two old.
Probably my least spicy batch to date.

6 tablespoons of chile powder, but no Habanero or Cayenne this year.

yankees might like it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2020, 03:08:40 PM
How were the potatoes?
Fine, I just learned they got it from  traitors.  Traitors. No, traitors.  Stupid spel hack.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 02, 2020, 03:14:23 PM
I enjoy it fresh and a day or two old.
Probably my least spicy batch to date.

6 tablespoons of chile powder, but no Habanero or Cayenne this year.

yankees might like it
Yankess don't like chili, they like bean soup.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2020, 03:19:48 PM
Powder from Chile?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on February 02, 2020, 03:21:05 PM
I'm caramelizing two pounds of onions right now.
Mostly for wife and I for burgers tonight and whatever else.  My kids view the SB as reason to gorge on doritos and cheetos.

We hosted a mystery dinner last night for 8 5th graders for my daughters bday party.  Not much energy for a big effort today.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 02, 2020, 03:22:15 PM
JJ Watt Stars in Hilarious Notre Dame/Rudy SNL Parody Skit

https://www.uhnd.com/football/2020/02/02/jj-watt-stars-hilarious-notre-damerudy-snl-parody-skit/ (https://www.uhnd.com/football/2020/02/02/jj-watt-stars-hilarious-notre-damerudy-snl-parody-skit/)

https://www.uhnd.com/football/2020/02/02/jj-watt-stars-hilarious-notre-damerudy-snl-parody-skit/ (http://uhnd.com/football/2020/02/02/jj-watt-stars-hilarious-notre-damerudy-snl-parody-skit/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: DevilFroggy on February 02, 2020, 07:31:30 PM
I decided to try my hand at making my own wings for the Super Bowl today and my goodness did they come out just about perfect.

Tried a method I saw from a popular YouTube chef Binging with Babish. Basically deep fry your wings at 225 degrees for 20 minutes, let sit in the fridge overnight, then fry them again at 400 degrees for 10 more minutes for perfectly crispy and still juicy wings. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on February 02, 2020, 08:20:25 PM
That's something I'd like to do, just hate frying food at home.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: DevilFroggy on February 02, 2020, 08:33:23 PM
It is somewhat of a hassle but requires very little technical skill, which appealed to me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: DevilFroggy on February 02, 2020, 08:34:11 PM
Also a good way to put my recently acquired enamel coated dutch oven to use.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on February 02, 2020, 09:19:59 PM
That is a great vessel for that.   I suppose I now have a great blower fan, I should just do it.    
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 02, 2020, 11:14:49 PM
It is somewhat of a hassle but requires very little technical skill, which appealed to me.
I've only recently gotten into it. I was terrified of it for so long, then did it, and realized how easy it is. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on February 02, 2020, 11:48:16 PM
A local BBQ-man offered a Super Bowl sale where you pre-ordered and picked up at a given location. His food is good, but with a truck, you usually have to know where he'll be and sort of block out time to get there, and he still sells out.

What he did not account for was that there is almost no on-demand food on Super Bowl Sunday that isn't completely overwhelmed (pizza and wings stretched to the breaking point), and the convenience of "Place order for lots of meats 5 days out, go cleanly pick it up" is a huge, huge bonus. Anyway, he got swamped with orders and I think made a killing. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2020, 03:02:21 AM
I missed the SB entirely, seem to be OK ... So far.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 03, 2020, 07:30:39 AM
A local BBQ-man offered a Super Bowl sale where you pre-ordered and picked up at a given location. His food is good, but with a truck, you usually have to know where he'll be and sort of block out time to get there, and he still sells out.

What he did not account for was that there is almost no on-demand food on Super Bowl Sunday that isn't completely overwhelmed (pizza and wings stretched to the breaking point), and the convenience of "Place order for lots of meats 5 days out, go cleanly pick it up" is a huge, huge bonus. Anyway, he got swamped with orders and I think made a killing.

A friend of mine owns a couple of Wing Stop franchises.  Needless to say Superbowl Sunday is by far his biggest day of the year.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 03, 2020, 09:03:20 AM
I had the Ham and Scalloped Potatos from Friday Night.With steamed Broccoli and Carrots
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 03, 2020, 09:12:42 AM
Also couldn't watch Ground Hog Day yesterday it's now owned by Amazon - I'm really starting to hate those F***ers
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2020, 09:45:21 AM
I think it comes around again soon ...

I had porc curry at the local restaurant, don't generally see pork on the menu here.  Plan to visit Zchablis Sunday, again.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2020, 10:35:25 AM
 Headed to Orleans Friday and Chablis Sunday and Fontainebleau Monday.  We stay at a friend's guest house at the last place until we fly back.  Headed to Istanbul in April. 

Would enjoy just being at home for a while.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2020, 11:02:53 AM
man of the World....

I doubt I ever do much international traveling.  Could catch a virus or worse
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2020, 11:05:07 AM
Fortunately, at baseball they had Modelo and Bud Light as options, no Corona.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 03, 2020, 12:29:15 PM
I spent several months working in Belgium once upon a time, and the hotel bar was well sorted with local beers, plenty of delicious Belgian ales to choose from.  They also had featured an "import beer of the month" and for one of the months I was there, that featured import was Corona.  It was astounding how many Belgians and other Euros eschewed the world-class Belgian ales in favor of that Mexican hog urine in the clear bottle.  I guess it left more delicious Belgian ale for me, though, so I can't complain too much about it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2020, 12:34:44 PM
It must have been its exotic nature.  I am surprised how big Coke is over here.  I was chatting with a wine store owner about selling American wines in France ... I told him there are good ones no doubt, but why bother trying?

As noted, I see JD in every bar.  I guess it goes with the Coke thing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 03, 2020, 01:01:53 PM
JD or other American whiskey makes sense, just as we have Scotch and Irish whiskys/whiskeys in our bars.  

Coke tastes good, so that also makes sense, though it's a sad commentary that Europe is becoming more Americanized in its consumption of junk food and fast food.  My recent trips over there, the locals have been much fatter than they were during my initial trips almost 30 years ago.

But drinking really bad-tasting beer simply because it's imported makes no sense at all, but hey, who am I to judge?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 03, 2020, 01:05:50 PM

But drinking really bad-tasting beer simply because it's imported makes no sense at all, but hey, who am I to judge?
Even in Belgium, people like the light lagers. 

I would have thought they'd be drinking more Stella Artois, but I'm not surprised that if Corona was the lightest flavored beer they had, that people went for it. People here drink Coors Light / Bud Light / Miller Lite, which to me tastes about as flavorful as a La Croix, i.e. water with a tiny hint of flavoring added.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 03, 2020, 01:11:59 PM
Even in Belgium, people like the light lagers.

I would have thought they'd be drinking more Stella Artois, but I'm not surprised that if Corona was the lightest flavored beer they had, that people went for it. People here drink Coors Light / Bud Light / Miller Lite, which to me tastes about as flavorful as a La Croix, i.e. water with a tiny hint of flavoring added.

Oh no don't get me wrong, pilsners and light lagers are still the highest consumed category even in Belgium.  But it's mostly their local versions, including Stella, Jupiler, and Maes.  Those all taste good over there, even Stella. Corona doesn't taste good ANYWHERE, not even in Mexico.

And I expect more from the palates of Belgians than I do from the palates of Americans raised on macro-swill, to be honest.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 03, 2020, 01:44:32 PM
It was astounding how many Belgians and other Euros eschewed the world-class Belgian ales in favor of that Mexican hog urine in the clear bottle.
Not too far from the truth either.There is a reason they still say don't drink the water.They shove limes in the bottle for the same reason women douche.They have to be laughing in their breweries and board room every day.

  And Mich Lite is like a 50-50 of Bud Lite and seltzer,that has gone flat
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2020, 02:38:02 PM
silly Europeans 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2020, 03:08:46 PM
These showers were designed by a douche.  No two are alike, at all.  I have fifth degree burns.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 03, 2020, 05:22:23 PM
 the locals have been much fatter than they were during my initial trips almost 30 years ago.
Of course you've scaled down to your age 22 dimensions
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 03, 2020, 06:27:05 PM
Doing pork belly burnt ends two ways today...

https://www.vindulge.com/smoked-pork-belly-burnt-ends-recipe-and-video/

https://blog.thermoworks.com/pork/asian-pork-burnt-ends/
Final product...

(https://i.imgur.com/YiZMSDD.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 03, 2020, 06:31:24 PM
I'll try that one, using some different methodologies.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 03, 2020, 06:37:43 PM
I'll try that one, using some different methodologies.
Overall, I was really happy with it. 

Burnt ends are like the candy of BBQ. But it can be a pain to have to smoke an entire brisket to be able to cut off and cube the point, to make burnt ends. Pork belly is readily available, cheap, and already has all that unctuous fatty goodness to hold up to a nice long smoke.

The one thing I would say was that it was just TOO rich by the time we got done with all the other dishes. It was only myself, my wife, and the kids. We'd already been eating a veggie & dip platter, then some chips with salsa/guac/dip, then some pizza pretzels, and by the time we got to this it was just too much. 4-6 bites of this is enough for just about anyone, so it should be an appetizer, not the main event. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 03, 2020, 06:51:23 PM
Damn that looked good,what type of suds went with that
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 03, 2020, 07:22:53 PM
Damn that looked good,what type of suds went with that
Well, IPA, obviously. What else can push through the richness of pork fat better than a nice bitter IPA?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 03, 2020, 07:55:57 PM
Pretty much any other beer in the world.  Except Corona, obviously. ;)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on February 04, 2020, 08:05:54 AM
Lot of pot stirring last night, is FF alright?  Made for some very bizarre TV.  I'm normally checked out of that stuff entirely, but it was hard to look away.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 04, 2020, 09:49:20 AM
Well, IPA, obviously. What else can push through the richness of pork fat better than a nice bitter IPA?
Well then perhaps I might try one or a Czech Pilsner would work
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2020, 10:28:26 AM
https://atlanta.curbed.com/2020/2/3/21119736/atlanta-st-regis-highest-priced-condo-sold-georgia?fbclid=IwAR0Vz7vJeQ2TvffbegOpBGmkm-1TRww29RE_cIycbjgbvJ7IkghFTnHSgdw

Movin on up ...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 04, 2020, 01:05:40 PM
And look at the market today... as "coronavirus concerns ease"...


Freakin' clown show.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2020, 03:36:11 PM
Clown show making me $$$$$$$&&&&&&
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 04, 2020, 03:37:51 PM
Well then perhaps I might try one or a Czech Pilsner would work

Czech pilsners go great with anything, perhaps the most versatile beer style in the world.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 04, 2020, 03:44:16 PM
Clown show making me $$$$$$$&&&&&&
Only if you sell today, like a lot of clowns will.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on February 04, 2020, 04:32:31 PM
Lot of pot stirring last night, is FF alright?  Made for some very bizarre TV.  I'm normally checked out of that stuff entirely, but it was hard to look away.
One of the highlights was hearing a reporter desperate to report anything speculate about potential phone network problems in Iowa.
I immediately thought of our own Pot stirrer.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 04, 2020, 04:47:32 PM
Heh.

Talk about clown shows.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 04, 2020, 04:56:57 PM
Best comment I saw on a preview of the Iowa @ Purdue game over at Hammer and Rails...


Quote
Good thing this game isn't @ Iowa. I'm not sure we can even trust them to keep the scoreboard right.

[…too soon?…]
:57:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on February 05, 2020, 10:57:54 PM
Here's a highlight reel of our tailgating from this past season. Yours truly got in there a few times, and Fearless may have snuck in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8jbCAWYPcE&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8jbCAWYPcE&feature=youtu.be)

Sadly, it may be our final season on the East River Flats. Still no word from the MPRB about the future.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 06, 2020, 12:05:33 PM
Overall, I was really happy with it.

Burnt ends are like the candy of BBQ. But it can be a pain to have to smoke an entire brisket to be able to cut off and cube the point, to make burnt ends. Pork belly is readily available, cheap, and already has all that unctuous fatty goodness to hold up to a nice long smoke.

The one thing I would say was that it was just TOO rich by the time we got done with all the other dishes. It was only myself, my wife, and the kids. We'd already been eating a veggie & dip platter, then some chips with salsa/guac/dip, then some pizza pretzels, and by the time we got to this it was just too much. 4-6 bites of this is enough for just about anyone, so it should be an appetizer, not the main event.
I'll see if my brother will try some burnt ends with his brisket.  I had a burnt ends sammich in Topeka on my last trip to Texas.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on February 06, 2020, 12:07:04 PM
I'll see if my brother will try some burnt ends with his brisket.  I had a burnt ends sammich in Topeka on my last trip to Texas.
Yeah burnt ends are a go to, if they are on the menu, but I've never tried to make them myself.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 06, 2020, 12:07:09 PM
Lot of pot stirring last night, is FF alright?  Made for some very bizarre TV.  I'm normally checked out of that stuff entirely, but it was hard to look away.
Can't blame me.  I was out of state.  (Visiting beautiful Mitchell, SD in February)

and I don't caucus

stoopid Apps 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 06, 2020, 12:08:14 PM
He's going to try smoking some beef cheeks.  Might as well throw in a chunk of pork belly.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 06, 2020, 12:59:20 PM
I'll see if my brother will try some burnt ends with his brisket.  I had a burnt ends sammich in Topeka on my last trip to Texas.
Yeah burnt ends are a go to, if they are on the menu, but I've never tried to make them myself.
Very easy, if you're already smoking an entire brisket ;)

When you pull the brisket off the smoker to rest, just separate the point and flat, cube the flat, toss the chunks in a disposable foil pan with a little more rub and some bbq sauce, and put it back on the smoker for ~60-90 minutes. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 06, 2020, 02:19:47 PM
Burnt ends are okay.  I'd honestly rather just have an actual slice of delicious brisket.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on February 06, 2020, 03:58:02 PM
Burnt ends are okay.  I'd honestly rather just have an actual slice of delicious brisket.


Yeah, I think its more of a rarity thing for me.  I can get good brisket at a cookout, or at any BBQ joint.  Not always going to see burnt ends, and I've never had them home made.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 06, 2020, 04:23:27 PM
Burnt ends are okay.  I'd honestly rather just have an actual slice of delicious brisket.
IMHO it doesn't need to be either/or.

I personally enjoy the point of brisket, even sliced. But it's too fatty for some. 

So burnt ends as an appetizer takes care of using the brisket point, and then you serve the flat sliced for the main course.

When I don't make burnt ends, often the point just gets frozen after cooking for use in other applications like chili, nachos, taquitos, stuffed shells, etc.

Actually, I've got some frozen now and we're thinking of making your enchiladas this weekend, utee, and the nice fatty point would go nicely there. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 06, 2020, 06:21:26 PM
IMHO it doesn't need to be either/or.

I personally enjoy the point of brisket, even sliced. But it's too fatty for some.

So burnt ends as an appetizer takes care of using the brisket point, and then you serve the flat sliced for the main course.

When I don't make burnt ends, often the point just gets frozen after cooking for use in other applications like chili, nachos, taquitos, stuffed shells, etc.

Actually, I've got some frozen now and we're thinking of making your enchiladas this weekend, utee, and the nice fatty point would go nicely there.

Down here in Texico the fatty slices off the point are highly prized.  They label it "moist" ( I guess so it doesn't sound so unhealthy) and most places, it costs more.

Personally, I prefer the lean from the flat but it's possible I'm in the minority around here.

Anyway, the point definitely works for bbq enchiladas so I hope you make some!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 06, 2020, 06:32:36 PM
A couple years ago we drove from West Palm Beach to Captiva.

Middle Florida is, umm, interesting.
Yes....interesting.   I have driven across several times for work or to visit my brother ( he is West Coast Cape Coral/ Ft. Meyer’s and I am east coast Stuart/ palm Beach). Let’s just say I try to fill up before I go so I don’t have to stop.  

Another interesting thing that I learned since moving here ( and I am sure everyone else already knew) is that I am on the I-95 side so mostly Northeast transplants, visitors and retirees.   The folks on the west side near I-75 are mostly midwesterners.  So there is a noticeable difference in style and “personality.”  I am more used to the friendly, approachable midwesterners.   
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 06, 2020, 06:33:55 PM
Down here in Texico the fatty slices off the point are highly prized.  They label it "moist" ( I guess so it doesn't sound so unhealthy) and most places, it costs more.
My first Texas BBQ experience was Rudy's, and it was the moist brisket. I was in heaven!

I hear you Austin folks consider Rudy's to be second-tier at best, and it was still the best BBQ I'd ever had...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 06, 2020, 06:47:47 PM
My first Texas BBQ experience was Rudy's, and it was the moist brisket. I was in heaven!

I hear you Austin folks consider Rudy's to be second-tier at best, and it was still the best BBQ I'd ever had...

Rudy's is probably third tier but that doesn't mean it's not quite tasty.  I give them a TON of credit for producing an incredibly consistent product, for full-service restaurant hours, each and every day, as well as really great consistency across their numerous locations.

First-tier places like Franklin are only open for lunch until they run out of food, and then there's Snow's (Texas Monthly magazine's current reigning #1 in the state) that's only open on Saturdays (again, only until lunch which is when they run out of food).  Those places are delicious but I don't consider them to be actual restaurants.  They don't serve regular lunch and dinner hours, and you have to wait in very long lines for their product.  I call them "Extended Catering Events."  It's great for their quality and it's a great business model for them financially, it's just not great for average customers.

Anyway, just my $0.02.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 06, 2020, 08:35:20 PM
Yes....interesting.  I have driven across several times for work or to visit my brother ( he is West Coast Cape Coral/ Ft. Meyer’s and I am east coast Stuart/ palm Beach). Let’s just say I try to fill up before I go so I don’t have to stop. 

Another interesting thing that I learned since moving here ( and I am sure everyone else already knew) is that I am on the I-95 side so mostly Northeast transplants, visitors and retirees.  The folks on the west side near I-75 are mostly midwesterners.  So there is a noticeable difference in style and “personality.”  I am more used to the friendly, approachable midwesterners. 
This (and better day boating) is why we picked the Gulf side.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 07, 2020, 02:05:56 AM
Driving here is interesting.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 07, 2020, 05:29:27 AM
This (and better day boating) is why we picked the Gulf side.
Yes... I like inshore fishing so thankfully I live near several inlets (st.Lucie, Jupiter) where ther is great fishing.  My boat is just a 25 ft Bay boat, so it’s perfect for that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on February 07, 2020, 07:47:11 AM
I may have mentioned this awhile back, but I went Inshore fishing with my FiL when we were at Marco Island, and the guide had us help him catch his bait, which I found to be really cool, had never done that before, with the huge nets and all that.     Fishing is always up and down, but those Inshore trips are always fun for me, being so used to traditional northwoods freshwater lake fishing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 07, 2020, 08:37:26 AM
I may have mentioned this awhile back, but I went Inshore fishing with my FiL when we were at Marco Island, and the guide had us help him catch his bait, which I found to be really cool, had never done that before, with the huge nets and all that.    Fishing is always up and down, but those Inshore trips are always fun for me, being so used to traditional northwoods freshwater lake fishing.
Yes, very hit or miss.

most of my adult life in Michigan, I would consider myself almost expert level for those inland lakes.  Didn’t matter if it was Michigan, Wisconsin, Canada. I could take a lake map and find walleye, musky, bass, or pike.   

Down here, you might as well put a bag over my head.... clueless.   So much to learn and the big thing is, it is all related to tides and currents.   So many species.  But, I am learning which is part of the fun.  Had my boat for a year now.

One cool thing here is, you can and often do hook into anything, including some monsterous creature when you don’t expect it!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 07, 2020, 08:40:50 AM
My friends down there seem to have it dialed in, both near shore and in open water. I look forward to learning from them, and eating the grouper that we catch.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 07, 2020, 09:21:00 AM
Fishing's not my thing, but I do like eating amberjack whilst in Florida.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 07, 2020, 09:33:08 AM
My friends down there seem to have it dialed in, both near shore and in open water. I look forward to learning from them, and eating the grouper that we catch.
If I recall, you like walleye for eating as much as I do.  Down here my favorite is Cobia! Needs nothing but maybe salt and Pepper.   Grilled 5 minutes per side.  I liken it the Filet Mignon of fish.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 07, 2020, 10:19:55 AM
If I recall, you like walleye for eating as much as I do.  Down here my favorite is Cobia! Needs nothing but maybe salt and Pepper.  Grilled 5 minutes per side.  I liken it the Filet Mignon of fish. 
Cobia is great, and I do love walleye.


So many choices down there. There aren't many bad ones.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 07, 2020, 01:06:40 PM
I've smoked a few great Cohibas

usually after dinner with a glass of scotch
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 07, 2020, 01:15:34 PM
Here's a highlight reel of our tailgating from this past season. Yours truly got in there a few times, and Fearless may have snuck in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8jbCAWYPcE&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8jbCAWYPcE&feature=youtu.be)

Sadly, it may be our final season on the East River Flats. Still no word from the MPRB about the future.

nice work on the video!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 07, 2020, 01:47:31 PM
I like walleye too!  Only ever had it in Minnesota, we either don't have it down here, or nobody likes to catch/cook it.  

But my buddy in Minneapolis had me over to his house a few times while I was working up there, and he'd grill it, or very lightly pan fry it.  So delicious!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 07, 2020, 02:56:04 PM
Walleyes can commonly be found in areas of Iowa and Nebraska, but that's about as far south.

They have been introduced as far south as the northern Texas but don't do well there and I imagine numbers are few.

one of the best tasting fish in North America
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 07, 2020, 03:06:48 PM
Walleye is fantastic.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 07, 2020, 03:32:05 PM
Walleyes can commonly be found in areas of Iowa and Nebraska, but that's about as far south.

They have been introduced as far south as the northern Texas but don't do well there and I imagine numbers are few.

one of the best tasting fish in North America
Walleye is fantastic.

No doubt.  Really really delicious stuff.  MAkes me want to check the intertoobz and see if I could somehow have it delivered to me.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 07, 2020, 03:36:05 PM
Hmmm, looks like I could have it delivered for something like $30/lb with shipping.  That's a little steeper than I was hoping.



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 07, 2020, 03:48:16 PM
Walleyes can commonly be found in areas of Iowa and Nebraska, but that's about as far south.

They have been introduced as far south as the northern Texas but don't do well there and I imagine numbers are few.

one of the best tasting fish in North America
They thrive in deeper,darker,cooler waters.Pricey for sure 94 years ago when at least 4 buddies had boats   I always had perch/walleye in the freezer - now not so much.I was going to sell some to my friend who's a chef,then I factored in time,money and effort involved and decided to eat it myself - though I gave him a few fillets
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 07, 2020, 04:04:29 PM
Hmmm, looks like I could have it delivered for something like $30/lb with shipping.  That's a little steeper than I was hoping.




I haven't done much walleye fishing lately and my freezer is not well stocked.

If I spent more time fishing thru the ice and less time golfing in Texas, I might be able to bring a cooler of fillets to Texas the week after next.

I'll ask around to see if someone has more than enough.  Doesn't happen much in Iowa.  Have to go to Minnesooota, South dakota, or North Dakota to find guys that have more than they care to eat.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 07, 2020, 04:10:24 PM
I haven't done much walleye fishing lately and my freezer is not well stocked.

If I spent more time fishing thru the ice and less time golfing in Texas, I might be able to bring a cooler of fillets to Texas the week after next.

I'll ask around to see if someone has more than enough.  Doesn't happen much in Iowa.  Have to go to Minnesooota, South dakota, or North Dakota to find guys that have more than they care to eat.
Around here, it's all my neighbors that have freezers full of venison!  I don't hunt deer myself but am a great beneficiary of their efforts.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on February 07, 2020, 04:16:13 PM
Walleyes can commonly be found in areas of Iowa and Nebraska, but that's about as far south.

They have been introduced as far south as the northern Texas but don't do well there and I imagine numbers are few.

one of the best tasting fish in North America

I remember when Walleye almost disappeared from Lake Erie during the 70s. About all you could catch was some perch and few small mouth
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 07, 2020, 04:46:39 PM
Walleyes can commonly be found in areas of Iowa and Nebraska, but that's about as far south.

They have been introduced as far south as the northern Texas but don't do well there and I imagine numbers are few.

one of the best tasting fish in North America
The only freshwater rivals to walleye for me are crappie, and probably Great Lake whitefish.


Lake perch is OK. Super bland.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 07, 2020, 05:09:34 PM
Around here, it's all my neighbors that have freezers full of venison!  I don't hunt deer myself but am a great beneficiary of their efforts.

I get venison from friends around here.  If cooked properly it's very good.  The deer in these parts feed on corn, taste much better than venison I've had in Colorado, Texas, Wisconsin, and other parts.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on February 07, 2020, 05:25:49 PM
A comment on walleye, which in my humble view is over worshipped by my friendly Minnesotan friends.   It is tasty, but I'm telling you it is no better than Northern Pike.  The major malfunction with Pike is most people's struggle to remove the Y bone properly.  This is why it is very rarely seen on a restaurant menu.   I would concede, northern pike tastes better (much like walleye) in the proper size, and the colder the water the better.    We talk about this all the time in Canada, and love demoing this with newbies who are convinced that walleye is the only fish worth eating.

For instance,  the 'slot' in much of Canada is 16.1-22, you have to release every fish in the slot, then follow bag limit for above or below.   I would offer that walleye in the 22+ camp is not that good, and probably the reason I don't enjoy the Lake Erie walleye which is often sold in the Indy area, as those filets are 'too big', the fish isn't worth it for the price it commands.    Same vibe with Northern Pike, I'd never choose to eat one outside the slot on the 'big' side, that's why I release all Pike from the bottom end of the 'slot' all the way up.    Keep the  ones for shore lunch, or later freezing.

I'd also say bluegill is a great freshwater eating fish, but like hell am I going to catch, clean and prepare the 35 or more necessary for a meal.   I do wait until I know our local fish guys are going to have them, and they do a nice sale on bulk packages of bluegill.   

one thing I never understood is why virtually nobody eats (freshwater) bass in the north.   It was only until I was served some tasty small mouth (here in Kentuckiana/Tennessee region have I seen, that 'oh, this actually can be tasty.'   I attribute it to water temps/diets and other genetic reasons, or us northerners just like our perch, crappie, trout, whitefish and walleye that much that bass gets crowded out.  I mean, nobody is eating small/large/rock  bass in the north.   Is there a pocket somewhere in Michigan that I don't know about that does?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 07, 2020, 06:14:59 PM
A comment on walleye, which in my humble view is over worshipped by my friendly Minnesotan friends.  It is tasty, but I'm telling you it is no better than Northern Pike.  The major malfunction with Pike is most people's struggle to remove the Y bone properly.  This is why it is very rarely seen on a restaurant menu.  I would concede, northern pike tastes better (much like walleye) in the proper size, and the colder the water the better.    We talk about this all the time in Canada, and love demoing this with newbies who are convinced that walleye is the only fish worth eating.

For instance,  the 'slot' in much of Canada is 16.1-22, you have to release every fish in the slot, then follow bag limit for above or below.  I would offer that walleye in the 22+ camp is not that good, and probably the reason I don't enjoy the Lake Erie walleye which is often sold in the Indy area, as those filets are 'too big', the fish isn't worth it for the price it commands.    Same vibe with Northern Pike, I'd never choose to eat one outside the slot on the 'big' side, that's why I release all Pike from the bottom end of the 'slot' all the way up.    Keep the  ones for shore lunch, or later freezing.

I'd also say bluegill is a great freshwater eating fish, but like hell am I going to catch, clean and prepare the 35 or more necessary for a meal.  I do wait until I know our local fish guys are going to have them, and they do a nice sale on bulk packages of bluegill. 

one thing I never understood is why virtually nobody eats (freshwater) bass in the north.  It was only until I was served some tasty small mouth (here in Kentuckiana/Tennessee region have I seen, that 'oh, this actually can be tasty.'  I attribute it to water temps/diets and other genetic reasons, or us northerners just like our perch, crappie, trout, whitefish and walleye that much that bass gets crowded out.  I mean, nobody is eating small/large/rock  bass in the north.  Is there a pocket somewhere in Michigan that I don't know about that does?
You are right on with the pike and walleye. When I have gone to fly in only in Canada, the walleye are allowed to be cooked for shore lunch and the best size is 16-18 inches.  Of course the water is cold and deep.
but they also are expert at removing the “Y” bone and they serve up the pike too, and is is amazing 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 07, 2020, 06:19:04 PM
I didn't mention pike because it's a bitch to clean. Particularly after a few pops...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 07, 2020, 07:29:06 PM
I didn't mention pike because it's a bitch to clean. Particularly after a few pops...
😂😂
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 07, 2020, 08:57:52 PM
I'd also say bluegill is a great freshwater eating fish, but like hell am I going to catch, clean and prepare the 35 or more necessary for a meal.  I do wait until I know our local fish guys are going to have them, and they do a nice sale on bulk packages of bluegill. 

one thing I never understood is why virtually nobody eats (freshwater) bass in the north.  It was only until I was served some tasty small mouth (here in Kentuckiana/Tennessee region have I seen, that 'oh, this actually can be tasty.'  I attribute it to water temps/diets and other genetic reasons, or us northerners just like our perch, crappie, trout, whitefish and walleye that much that bass gets crowded out.  I mean, nobody is eating small/large/rock  bass in the north.  Is there a pocket somewhere in Michigan that I don't know about that does?
I've cleaned and eaten more Bluegill and largemouth bass than anything.
back in the late 60's early 70's there was a huge movement to build dams on farmland to prevent erosion

dams were stocked with largemouth, Bluegill, and channel cat
2 or 3 afternoons a week, my father, brother, and I were in a 12 ft v-bottom with electric trolling motor on a farm pond nearby fishing for largemouth
if the largemouth weren't biting, we'd fish Bluegills

didn't care much for the channel cat
Bluegill isn't quite as good as crappie, but very good
LArgemouth are not quite as good as walleye, but very good
I'd never turn down bluegill or bass
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 07, 2020, 10:05:40 PM
I remember when Walleye almost disappeared from Lake Erie during the 70s. About all you could catch was some perch and few small mouth
There was no limit on perch though.Catch as much as you can clean.Ate like kings or at least Captains
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 07, 2020, 10:12:33 PM
I didn't mention pike because it's a bitch to clean. Particularly after a few pops...
Canadians clean those Y bones before they learn to skate
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on February 07, 2020, 10:50:37 PM
Yep. Many of our guides actually work/live in Iowa in the winter months, run or have worked in meat lockers.  They clean those fish so fast,  it is a treat to watch them work.  We usually get everything else set up and they handle the fish. 

Those are the best lunches on earth. Some canned baked beans, onion, some hot sauce, lemon, rye or even white bread for sammies and of course cold beer, usually Labatts, even Blue Light.   I usually eat some of the cubed taters the first day, but that will lead you to untimely trips to.. ..hanging on to a tree if if you push your luck.

The lake trout is the luxury shore lunch specialty.   They are too good for the classic corn flake crumb breading and fry pan.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 08, 2020, 08:33:40 AM
Those are the best lunches on earth. Some canned baked beans, onion, some hot sauce, lemon, rye or even white bread for sammies and of course cold beer, usually Labatts, even Blue Light. 
Years ago before the Craft Beer Breweries got established we'd used bring back Canadian Beer as it was much prized.Laurentide used to be great but has been bought out - try Molson Export that was still tasty a few years back or John Labatt Classic if it's still made.And ya shore lunches up in the wild beat 5 Star bistros in the City.Can't beat the Ambience
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 08, 2020, 09:09:08 AM
careful to not eat enough on the shore to want to nap a bit in the boat in the afternoon

good livin, might have to put up the golf clubs for a week or two this season and take a fishin trip
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 08, 2020, 09:18:36 AM
preppin a shrimp boil in the crock pot this morning

everything goes in the pot but the shrimp, I go to the pub for frosted schooners, later add the shrimp for a few minutes and enjoy!

my first attempt in a crock pot, thinking about adding a yellow onion, the recipes I've checked don't call for onion

keeping it very mild so my oldest daughter can enjoy
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2020, 12:32:10 PM
Orleans is a nice small city.  It was just about bombed out by us in the war.  We don't hear much about cities like this one and Rouen and Caen that we carpet bombed.  This was a big rail center with bridges.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 08, 2020, 01:48:41 PM
Think that was one of Patton's stops in his race across France.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on February 08, 2020, 05:18:48 PM
I think literally the only thing the XFL could do better is make their teams tied to college conferences, and move their home games around.  Like each BCS conference has a team, Group of 5(4) has a team, and FCS and below has a team.  Then they each play one home game in a different stadium from that conference.  People lose interest, but if a team of Big Ten alums came and played one game in Ann Arbor, one at PSU, one at OSU, one in Chicago, I think they'd draw a crowd.  I'd go to that one time, and I'd have a sort of rooting interest
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CatsbyAZ on February 08, 2020, 09:21:11 PM
For anyone who is ever wondering what Penn State's Larry Johnson is up to, he's very active on twitter, ranting like an Ancient Aliens episode in his endless promotion of conspiracy theories, especially those pertaining to Satanism, Illuminati, and other world control by the global elite.

Exhibit B:

https://twitter.com/2LarryJohnson7/status/1220038692657647617
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2020, 11:55:20 PM
Think that was one of Patton's stops in his race across France.
It was, August 16, they have. Plaque.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2020, 01:29:59 PM
These towns are flat closed on Sunday, even McDonalds was closed.  We found two wine shops open in Chablis and one pricey restaurant that was quite good.  We are in a tiny village now that looks completely deserted.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 09, 2020, 01:49:28 PM
a day of rest is good
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 09, 2020, 01:54:19 PM
@utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) How spicy is this enchilada sauce supposed to be? Texas level spice or rest if the country spice level?

Just made the sauce for tonight, and I think it's got a little kick but the wife is worried she won't be able to eat a single enchilada. She doesn't have my spice tolerance. 

We're going to make a pan and reserve some brisket for quesadillas as plan b, but I'm wondering if I did something wrong or if that's just "authentic Texas flavor"... 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CatsbyAZ on February 09, 2020, 03:30:23 PM
Anybody watching XFL?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MichiFan87 on February 09, 2020, 03:48:36 PM
I watched a little of the DC game yesterday just out of curiosity. If it lasts into April I might attend a game just out of curiosity and because their coach is Michigan's former incompetent OC, Pep Hamilton. I've heard it's a neat stadium where they play and haven't been to a MLS game there, either.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 09, 2020, 03:55:04 PM
Anybody watching XFL?
The TV is turned on to XFL... I'm not sure I'm really doing what you'd call "watching" though... More that it's background while I do a bunch of other things.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 09, 2020, 04:29:42 PM
I watched a little AFL because of Spurrier and his offense really working well.  I don't care about the XFL, though.  How is it?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 09, 2020, 04:35:08 PM
watching golf

great golf course
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CatsbyAZ on February 09, 2020, 10:09:43 PM
I watched a little AFL because of Spurrier and his offense really working well.  I don't care about the XFL, though.  How is it?


It’s like watching the Delaware Blue Hens and trying to actively convince yourself you’re watching a Michigan game because of the similar winged helmets.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 09, 2020, 10:58:21 PM
@utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) How spicy is this enchilada sauce supposed to be? Texas level spice or rest if the country spice level?

Just made the sauce for tonight, and I think it's got a little kick but the wife is worried she won't be able to eat a single enchilada. She doesn't have my spice tolerance.

We're going to make a pan and reserve some brisket for quesadillas as plan b, but I'm wondering if I did something wrong or if that's just "authentic Texas flavor"...

I take it back. It had some kick, but nothing outlandish when put into the dish. She's just a wuss for spice lol... 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 10, 2020, 08:04:00 AM

It’s like watching the Delaware Blue Hens and trying to actively convince yourself you’re watching a Michigan game because of the similar winged helmets.
Delaware may take offense to that.J/K,M Fans
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 10, 2020, 09:22:07 AM
I take it back. It had some kick, but nothing outlandish when put into the dish. She's just a wuss for spice lol...
Yeah the gravy itself probably tastes spicier on its own, but once you blend with tortillas, cheese, and filling, it usually isn't that spicy.  (Also, sour cream is a relatively common addition to tone down anything that seems too spicy, so if you like sour cream, feel free to add).

To your original question, the level of spice is dictated entirely by the type and blend of chile peppers you use (if you're reconstituting dried pods), and amount of pods or chili powder you use (if you're not reconstituting your own dried chiles).

Ancho (which is dried, smoked poblano) is relatively mild.  Chipotle (which is dried, smoked jalapeno) is spicier.  Dried New Mexican peppers (often commonly referred to as Hatch peppers although that word technically describes a subset from a particular region) can range a lot, from mild, to pretty darn spicy.  And like many other plants/vegetables, smaller usually equals more intense, so in the case of peppers, smaller usually means hotter.  I typically add a handful of chile de arbol to crank up the heat a bit, but omitting them is fine, too.  It's more important to use a wide variety to diversify the flavor profile.   
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 10, 2020, 11:35:09 AM
Few places are as cold as windy, damp, cold France.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on February 10, 2020, 12:55:38 PM
Residents along north central portions of I-65, 55, 57. 69,and 75 know how you feel.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 10, 2020, 12:57:42 PM
France is definitely pretty miserable in the wintertime.  And early Spring.  And late Fall.

Late Spring and early Summer feel pretty great though, IMO.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 10, 2020, 01:02:09 PM
You know, having been in Calgary in the winter, not to mention Minneapolis, I think that France is probably nowhere near as bad. 

But then I wasn't going to either place on "vacation". They were business trips. So at least it wasn't my own money that brought me there. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on February 10, 2020, 01:08:21 PM
The distinction is, you can largely enjoy winter activities in those places,  I'm not doing shit when its 37 and raining for 48 hours.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on February 10, 2020, 10:15:07 PM
Few places are as cold as windy, damp, cold France.
Seattle?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 10, 2020, 10:19:38 PM
northwest Iowa, northeast Nebraska
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on February 10, 2020, 11:38:47 PM
Seattle?
Yeah, my brother says there hasn't been a sunny day since end of Dec.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2020, 03:18:58 AM
Damp and cold is worse to me than just cold, below freezing cold, and they don't seem to believe in heating their homes here.  It was 17 degrees last night in this house, Celsius.  I have a fire going here this morning.  Felt like camping out last night.  

Some faint sun today at least and the wind has abated.  Driving a Toyota Yaris at 130 kph on a windy day is entertaining.

That car is complete junk in my book, the transmission is crap as is the clutch, and it has no power, duh.  130 is near max.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 11, 2020, 09:12:40 AM
Damp and cold is worse to me than just cold,
Hell,yes I use to stick those days out while Deer Hunting.Foolishly thinking Nanook of the North would reward me for my diligence - um,no.Just one time did we winter camp while hunting rain/sleet put an end to that idea
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 11, 2020, 09:22:54 AM
Few places are as cold as windy, damp, cold France.
Last Fri/Sat it was in the twenties but crisp,bright with light flurries & sunshine(perfect Christmas Day).Yesterday & today in the mid 30s but gray,damp & cloudy
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2020, 09:31:43 AM
We are headed to Marseilles Friday at least.  I am ready to be home.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 11, 2020, 10:45:03 AM
Hell,yes I use to stick those days out while Deer Hunting.Foolishly thinking Nanook of the North would reward me for my diligence - um,no.Just one time did we winter camp while hunting rain/sleet put an end to that idea

We winter camp all the time, but it's not quite the same down here. :)

Still, many times we've been camping with overnight lows below freezing.  Typically days will get up into the 50s though, and a couple might hit mid-60s.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 11, 2020, 10:52:09 AM
so, that settles it.

I'm retiring to utee's neighborhood, not to France
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 11, 2020, 12:15:58 PM
You don't want to do that.  You'll lose your kidneys.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on February 11, 2020, 12:46:52 PM
Few places are as cold as windy, damp, cold France.
Per British historian John Keegan, the French settlers of what is now Canada were unpleasantly astounded at how cold it got.
The Norsemen who came there and made it Normandy thought that northern France had a nice climate.
OTOH, read U.S. soldiers' memoirs of WWI and you see a lot of complaints about "dud weather."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 11, 2020, 03:02:48 PM
probably soldiers from Oklahoma and Texas
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on February 11, 2020, 06:35:23 PM
Eddie Rickenbacker was from Columbus, Ohio, IIRC.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 11, 2020, 07:11:19 PM
We winter camp all the time, but it's not quite the same down here. :)


Problem is when you are done hunting for the day you want to warm up & eat fast.Well if you camping in the cold it doesn't lend itself to that.Winter camping is fine,just not coupled with the other though I proved I could do it.Prolly the worst  week of vacation I ever had but got a glimpse what the Mountain Men trapping went thru - no Bears though
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 11, 2020, 07:12:25 PM
Eddie Rickenbacker was from Columbus, Ohio, IIRC.
Yup think they closed the AF Base named after him
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 12, 2020, 12:11:26 AM
Near freezing, no sun, and humidity, not pleasant, with little heat in this house.  Have a fire going at least.

Three years ago we visited Verdun in December, that was worse, speaking of WW One.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 12, 2020, 02:02:59 AM
https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2020/02/112134/ohio-states-amir-riep-jahsen-wint-charged-with-rape-kidnapping (https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2020/02/112134/ohio-states-amir-riep-jahsen-wint-charged-with-rape-kidnapping)


Ohio State senior cornerback Amir Riep and redshirt senior linebacker/safety Jahsen Wint were charged with rape and kidnapping by Columbus Police on Tuesday.

Warrants have been issued for both of their arrests. The charges are first-degree felonies.

Ohio State has suspended the two players indefinitely from all football team activities.


Damn I hope not true if so send them to the Big House as long as possible
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 12, 2020, 11:58:01 AM
Damp and cold is worse to me than just cold, below freezing cold, and they don't seem to believe in heating their homes here.  It was 17 degrees last night in this house, Celsius.  I have a fire going here this morning.  Felt like camping out last night. 
Just Checked the forecast,weather in the ATL was 70 deg  :s_laugh:  laughing with you not at you though I doubt you're grinning
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 12, 2020, 12:23:41 PM
Today had some sun.  We had lunch with friends at Le Patton, eponymous with some general dude.  He did,liberate this place August 1944 and Ike moved into the castle which has 2100 rooms.  Lunch was OK.  Drinking wine from Irancy now by a nice fire.

Atlanta had snow last week apparently.  Headed to Marseilles Friday by TGV.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 12, 2020, 12:26:38 PM
Ohio State senior cornerback Amir Riep and redshirt senior linebacker/safety Jahsen Wint were charged with rape and kidnapping by Columbus Police on Tuesday.


Warrants have been issued for both of their arrests. The charges are first-degree felonies.


Ohio State has suspended the two players indefinitely from all football team activities.
got any walk-ons that could use those two senior scholarships???
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 12, 2020, 01:15:18 PM
If they did that I hope they are caned
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2020, 01:48:08 PM



Damn I hope not true if so send them to the Big House as long as possible

You want them to transfer to Michigan?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 12, 2020, 08:37:08 PM
Well with Lewan,Gibbons and Clarke gone there is a thug vacuum there 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Abba on February 13, 2020, 08:40:33 AM
got any walk-ons that could use those two senior scholarships???
Obviously, it's a horrible situation.  I almost feel bad saying this, but the fact here is that the Buckeyes were a few scholarships over 85, so this does save some other guys from being "Creaned", which I guess all the big schools are doing now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2020, 10:00:28 AM
I suspected the Buckeyes didn't have a strong walk-on presence 

Nebraska and Wisconsin and teams in the West aren't "big" schools, but we aspire to attain that status.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Badger1969 on February 13, 2020, 01:08:32 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/0gjKQSP.jpg)
Target needs to recheck their team loyalty, especially being located in Minnesota!  LOL
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Benthere2 on February 13, 2020, 01:38:44 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/0gjKQSP.jpg)
Target needs to recheck their team loyalty, especially being located in Minnesota!  LOL


This guy has already been let go.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on February 13, 2020, 01:53:13 PM
When I first heard about this it reminded me of this really 'smart' guy with a bunch of fancy degrees and his statement that the Twin Cities were Minneapolis and Milwaukee.  I'm not surprised to see this even from somebody within the walls of Target.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 13, 2020, 01:59:12 PM
I can't believe that the southeast Asian sweatshop employees that made the shirt didn't check their artwork or notice the mistake?!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 13, 2020, 02:49:39 PM
The good ones have already moved here
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on February 13, 2020, 03:17:48 PM
Come on, the number of proofs and layers of approval that likely come with anything they sell, it's really a disgrace.   

Having said that,  I would have bought a whole stack of em.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2020, 03:23:09 PM
those would be some rough and tough looking gophers
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2020, 04:10:19 PM
My random word for the year 2020 is meh, and burfle....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2020, 04:20:15 PM
after an extended stay in France........... I understand
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Badger1969 on February 13, 2020, 05:22:31 PM
I am sure the Asian sweat shops said, Badgers or Gophers what's the big deal they kind of look the same and both dig holes.   Lol
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2020, 05:30:53 PM
rodents

they're all the same
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 13, 2020, 08:51:37 PM
A few years back, this was made available on the official SEC online store:

(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fit,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_470/17ufnsbu0spyejpg.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 13, 2020, 09:30:40 PM
I am sure the Asian sweat shops said, Badgers or Gophers what's the big deal they kind of look the same and both dig holes.  Lol
There, I was thinking they were thinking "they all taste the same..."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Benthere2 on February 13, 2020, 11:53:47 PM
I had a Baseball cap that said Gophers on the back but had the Michigan M on the front  it was gold with a maroon M but the m was not the slanted Minnesota M but the straight Michigan M  I got it as a gift from my mother in law so I had to wear it once in a while so she could see I appreciated the gift
first chance I got it was trashed

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 14, 2020, 02:20:26 PM
A few years back, this was made available on the official SEC online store:

(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fit,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_470/17ufnsbu0spyejpg.jpg)
Should have got your wife one for Today - :D
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 14, 2020, 04:58:27 PM
Ha!

Yeah that would go over well...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2020, 03:46:01 AM
Bee Zar.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 15, 2020, 01:42:03 PM
LSU and FSU going to play in '22 and '23.  That's interesting.  Another interesting bit is that they're both home/neutral games at New Orleans first, then Orlando.  NOLA, sure, it's down the road from Red Stick.  But Orlando?  Tallahassee isn't close to any major city, really, but I'd think Jacksonville would make more sense.  Perhaps they're doing it in Orlando for recruiting purposes.
It could be purely a population thing (2.5 mil vs 1.5 mil in each metro area), but if it's purely recruiting, it's a big arrogant, possibly signifying that they feel confident in having the majority of the Jax kids.  
Each of the big 3 get Jax kids, but it's fair to say FSU does better than the other two.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2020, 03:49:35 PM
$$$$$$$$$$$&&
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2020, 04:41:06 PM
I bought a pound of curing salt #1. I have about 3# of pork belly. 

I guess I'm making bacon this weekend :72:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2020, 11:33:01 AM
Weird scene ... Walking along the local market and being passed by a squad of soliders spaced out in tax gear with MP4s.  No one pays any notice.  Police we're about as well.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on February 16, 2020, 02:56:40 PM
Been at a Vball tournament in Ft. Wayne this weekend.  Some awesome basketball memorialbilia at this complex.  Including Oden's size 20s, some great jerseys and artifacts in here, old shoes HS jeresys of Big Dog, Kemp.  I like the IU warmups from last 70s and the Larry Bird baseball pictures the best.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2020, 09:01:13 AM
Misting rain all day, got pretty wet walking, found great place for lunch.  Clearing a bit now and we're tired.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 17, 2020, 10:52:26 AM
France sounds awful, lol.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 17, 2020, 01:53:24 PM
Bacon is in the cure, in the fridge:

(https://i.imgur.com/5CuB6pv.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2020, 02:13:45 PM
France sounds awful, lol.
Like most things in life, it has pluses and randomness.

i do like that a lunch that is say 12 euros is exactly that, no tax, no tip ...

and and the food can be excellent.  Burger King has several outlets here.

we had a great lunch today, I had moules et frites pot a fer.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2020, 02:18:41 PM
Oh, and winter is not great here weather wise, even in Marseille.  But, no tourists either, good trade for me.

I like Marseille in general.  himmler had a large tract dynamited in 1944 for spite.  He was one of the nastier Nazis.

Orlean was bombed out by us.  Paris was saved by Von Choltitz.  

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietrich_von_Choltitz
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 17, 2020, 02:24:27 PM
Oh, and winter is not great here weather wise, even in Marseille.  But, no tourists either, good trade for me.

Yep. That's a trade I like.

Not that we ever have "bad" weather here in SoCal, but I basically avoid all the beach cities in the summer, and prefer them in the winter. When it's a high of 55 degrees and all the natives are huddling around their fireplaces under blankets, I enjoy the ample parking and the low traffic in the beach cities. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2020, 02:26:48 PM
Tomorrow is forecast as windy, not rainy.  Our last day in effect, though we have another on the train to CDG and a night at the Hilton there, which has a nice executive lounge.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 17, 2020, 06:48:23 PM
Opportunity to do some good, in a Boilermaker's name...

I'll be popping in a few bucks on Friday... 

https://www.stbaldricks.org/participants/mypage/1054120/2020#content (https://www.stbaldricks.org/participants/mypage/1054120/2020#content)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on February 17, 2020, 06:52:31 PM
Oh, and winter is not great here weather wise, even in Marseille.  But, no tourists either, good trade for me.

That's why our next trip to Italy will be in January. 

Do people sing La Marseillaise in Marseilles?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2020, 01:57:43 AM
Not that I have heard.  The French are generally not patriotic outwardly.

Good seafood here, I see seiche at the market, again.  Dorade is quite good, shrimp is not.

Not windy as yet, wife still asleep.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 18, 2020, 07:49:58 AM
Great seafood in Marseilles for sure.  The first bouillabaisse I ever had and it pretty much ruined it for me anywhere else. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2020, 09:30:57 AM
Sunny and war, today, really nice.  My digestion however is not happy, so I am resting.  Tomorrow back to CDG.  I am ready to be home.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Roaddawg on February 18, 2020, 03:29:17 PM
Been at a Vball tournament in Ft. Wayne this weekend.  Some awesome basketball memorialbilia at this complex.  Including Oden's size 20s, some great jerseys and artifacts in here, old shoes HS jeresys of Big Dog, Kemp.  I like the IU warmups from last 70s and the Larry Bird baseball pictures the best
Been at a Vball tournament in Ft. Wayne this weekend.  Some awesome basketball memorialbilia at this complex.  Including Oden's size 20s, some great jerseys and artifacts in here, old shoes HS jeresys of Big Dog, Kemp.  I like the IU warmups from last 70s and the Larry Bird baseball pictures the best. 
Where was the tourny?  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 18, 2020, 03:39:20 PM
Where was the tourny? 

Uhhh.... Ft. Wayne?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on February 18, 2020, 08:42:08 PM
Heh.

Speice Fieldhouse.    Two long days.  Nicely run facility,  though the ladies could use another bathroom. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Roaddawg on February 18, 2020, 10:02:26 PM
Heh.

Speice Fieldhouse.    Two long days.  Nicely run facility,  though the ladies could use another bathroom.
They just went through some financial issues and we thought it might close down.  Previous owners sucked the money without much needed repair work.  They have had a lot of competition in the past 10 years for court space with Parkview Hospital (a non-profit cough cough) building and buying a lot of sports places.   Wish I would have known, it would been nice to meet and catch up!  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Roaddawg on February 18, 2020, 10:02:40 PM
Uhhh.... Ft. Wayne?
DUH
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on February 18, 2020, 10:28:12 PM
Yeah, the older kids (13-18) were all at the Parkview SportOne Fieldhouse, it was a huge event. That looks spiffy on the outside.    The Speice facility definitely is older, but I like it in a very much no frills sort of way, the basketball standards and shot clocks looked worked over big time, and there's no doubt a lot of competition in the Midwest for these types of events.  I always think about what the 'books' look like at places like this.  It was comfortable as it really is going to get for a giant volleyball tournament with 8 courts going at once.

I thought of you as I was hauling at about 80 out of town to get home at a reasonable hour.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Roaddawg on February 18, 2020, 11:25:51 PM
Yeah, the older kids (13-18) were all at the Parkview SportOne Fieldhouse, it was a huge event. That looks spiffy on the outside.    The Speice facility definitely is older, but I like it in a very much no frills sort of way, the basketball standards and shot clocks looked worked over big time, and there's no doubt a lot of competition in the Midwest for these types of events.  I always think about what the 'books' look like at places like this.  It was comfortable as it really is going to get for a giant volleyball tournament with 8 courts going at once.

I thought of you as I was hauling at about 80 out of town to get home at a reasonable hour.
SportOne is the showcase arena for local sports.  Almost all of the youth events are ran by them (Parkview) or connected in some way.  Speice started it all off many many years ago, but like I said they milked the money and didn't care about growth.  Parkview is $2.5B money hog and they need a way to hide all that "non-profit" stuff.  Its good for the local athletes, but creates other issues as well, I am sure you understand since you are involved in Travel Sports and such.

Hit me up next time.  We need another gather of the minds, it would be fun!    
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 19, 2020, 09:16:53 AM
SportOne is the showcase arena for local sports.  Almost all of the youth events are ran by them (Parkview) or connected in some way.  Speice started it all off many many years ago, but like I said they milked the money and didn't care about growth.  Parkview is $2.5B money hog and they need a way to hide all that "non-profit" stuff.  Its good for the local athletes, but creates other issues as well, I am sure you understand since you are involved in Travel Sports and such.

Hit me up next time.  We need another gather of the minds, it would be fun!   
What was the age group for this VB tourn? My daughter plays club VB for the University of Toledo and they had a tourny at UT this weekend that I attended. Just curious of your daughters ages. I have spent many years traveling to VB tourny's around Ohio, Michigan, Indiana and Kentucky. I feel for you. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on February 19, 2020, 10:10:07 AM
My oldest plays 11s. This was a 10-18 tourney two day affair.  16 teams per group.  As a coach of the fall rec league teams, it's nice just to be a parent.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2020, 11:15:45 AM
I got a rather heavy package from Drew today.

Suffice it to say it's amazing.  It is some incredible woodwork and design coupled with a glass vase and looks incredible.  It has an honored place now among other memorabilia in my office.  The main piece shows my son's name and "Never Forgotten" and an inverted M-16.

I couldn't even envision such a design much less construct same.  I knew he was sending me something but this is over the top.

I thought I'd acknowledge the gift in general terms here as well as to him personally.

I've always been a great fan of inlaid wood items and this one is way up the list.


Time goes by for us all.  Somehow I survived, and am happily married and my two kids are both doing great.  It will be fifteen years in August, somehow.  

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 21, 2020, 11:32:14 AM
i like doing stuff like that... glad you liked. ..... by the way, that's Sapele, with purple heart wood- braced by white ash... somewhat symbolic. 

i did these two as well- one for a family into horses, kinda obviously, and the other who restores planes and flies them all over the great white north (which is what i call it, but it isn't always 'white'- it's the UP of Michigan where I have property/cabin, and they take care of it for me because i'm rarely there.. this was a 'thanks')... 

(https://www.drewswoodcraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/osterlund.jpg)

(https://www.drewswoodcraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/gervae-1.jpg)

the pony is inset an inch and three quarters deep into a bowl... the plane was a PITA, but... i got close enough i think... the inset is an inch and three quarters and the tip of the tail is flush with the overall piece... i did it from this pic which is his actual bird (a restored military training bird, and i think they flew them as late as Vietnam as spotter/observation birds too) : 

(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16836260_10154991181127270_6864772555542831233_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ohc=LuWytVPSwDIAX8s-nIh&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=b230dbe731c8b961fb61bcf467f4d3ac&oe=5EC95C12)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 21, 2020, 12:55:03 PM
Beautiful work, Drew!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 21, 2020, 01:50:00 PM
thank you, Sir... just something i tinker with. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2020, 03:02:00 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_O-1_Bird_Dog (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_O-1_Bird_Dog)

(https://i.imgur.com/ZgbXM3d.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 21, 2020, 03:43:40 PM
that's the one!!!

i think the color of his is significant- perhaps it was the way the trainers were painted?  he posted pictures on facebook of some sort of rally in Wisconsin for these things, and there must have been a hundred of them- and i'm only slightly exaggerating.  I was giggling that any one of them could have flown away with anyone else's bird and hardly noticed!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2020, 03:48:49 PM
Yeah, it's basically a Cessna 172, the kind I used to fly around.  Those guys had some guts flying them in combat.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 22, 2020, 10:53:47 AM
4 weeks from today, we will board a plane to Lima, Peru. We will board the cruise ship, and end up in Miami on April 5. Really looking forward to passing through the Panama Canal. It's a bucket list thing for me. Can't wait.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2020, 02:07:53 PM
Visas for Turkey cost $50 and last only 180 days.  

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 22, 2020, 02:24:09 PM
Good thing I'm never going to visit Turkey. I don't trust that country.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2020, 02:51:00 PM
We're going with our neighbor, who is Turkish, and visiting Istanbul and that local area some.  It should be interesting.  I'll let you know if we make it back.

One item is that departing flights for western Europe all seem to leave at 4:15 AM.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2020, 03:02:43 PM
So, we have this cheapie "First Alert" document safe thing where we store the usual stuff.  The wife put her passport in it yesterday and locked it and I later in the day discover the batteries are dead.  OK, where are the keys?  And of course we moved since I had anything to do with it.  After searching high and low, she did locate the keys, and life is good.  I kept one of them.  I don't think we have much fire risk here, the building is concrete and steel and has a sprinkler system, which probably would cause more damage than a fire.  Burglars?  Tough to get into the place.

That was a bad feeling for a while with a trip coming up and a locked up passport.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 22, 2020, 05:56:54 PM
safe deposit box at the bank is where I look for things as important as as passport

after that it's anyone's guess
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2020, 08:44:15 AM
I saw a gig about the ten most important games next season and excerpted a few that are not "played every year":

Auburn - UNC - The Heels should be pretty good.  Game in ATL.

Clemson at Notre Dame - duh.

Ohio State at Oregon

UGA at Bama - in September, early game.

FSU at Boise State

The rest were SEC West matchups, meh.  UGA plays UVA in ATL Game One which is a bit of a something.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 23, 2020, 09:21:23 AM
BYU plays at Minnesooota next fall

I'm curious to see if the Gophers can keep winning
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 23, 2020, 09:26:16 AM
Talent and attention to detail.I'd waste a small forest before I'd remotely approach that.I'm envious,my carpentry skills haven't advanced much since High School.Did put a front porch/deck on the folks house with 2 brothers is about it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2020, 09:31:26 AM
Other than Georgia Tech, future non-conference opponents include
Virginia next year in Atlanta.
Oregon in 2022 in Atlanta,
at Oklahoma in 2023,
Clemson in Atlanta in 2024,
a home and home with UCLA in 2025 and 2026,
at Florida State in 2027,
at Texas and home against Florida State in 2028,
at home against Texas and at Clemson in 2029,
Clemson and Ohio State at home in 2030,
at Ohio State and home against Oklahoma in 2031
a home and home against Clemson in 2032 and 2033.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2020, 09:52:56 AM
UW gets Notre Dame in Green Bay this year. Soldier Field next year.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2020, 10:14:28 AM
Can you explain why UW is playing these games off campus with ND and LSU?  I understand playing off campus with a one off, but not a series.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 23, 2020, 11:37:18 AM
Brisket grilled cheese and smoked tomato bisque. Both recipes from Vindulge:

https://www.vindulge.com/brisket-grilled-cheese-sandwiches/ (https://www.vindulge.com/brisket-grilled-cheese-sandwiches/)
https://www.vindulge.com/smoked-tomato-bisque/ (https://www.vindulge.com/smoked-tomato-bisque//)


(https://i.imgur.com/cZ7ezoe.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2020, 12:41:44 PM
Can you explain why UW is playing these games off campus with ND and LSU?  I understand playing off campus with a one off, but not a series.


Neither LSU nor ND would come to Madison. In the case of Green Bay (30K) and Chicago (25K), each team will receive the same number of tickets. ND is the "home" team in Green Bay. UW is the "home" team in Chicago.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2020, 12:43:04 PM
Well, I say it's spinach.  Two game series should be home and away, period, on campus.  When I'm in charge ...

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2020, 12:43:56 PM
UW and Bama will play a true home/away series coming up soon.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2020, 12:44:24 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Lv04FR3.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 23, 2020, 01:03:00 PM
Brisket grilled cheese and smoked tomato bisque. Both recipes from Vindulge:

https://www.vindulge.com/brisket-grilled-cheese-sandwiches/ (https://www.vindulge.com/brisket-grilled-cheese-sandwiches/)
https://www.vindulge.com/smoked-tomato-bisque/ (https://www.vindulge.com/smoked-tomato-bisque//)


(https://i.imgur.com/cZ7ezoe.jpg)

Sweet baby jesus...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 23, 2020, 02:37:56 PM
making me hungry
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2020, 03:42:17 PM
Lunched at a place called Farm Burger, burger and beer for $10, plus tax.  The plus tax thing gets me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 23, 2020, 03:50:27 PM
the tax man never sleeps
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2020, 03:52:55 PM
After a month in France, it sort of hit me, again, and our sales taxes are pretty high here, nearly 9%.

In Europe, if a meal is say 10 euros, that is what you pay, no tip, no tax (it's hidden of course).

We found a place serving coffee, fresh squeezed OJ, and a croissant for 3.50 euros.  The OJ was fantastic.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 23, 2020, 04:19:03 PM
Brisket grilled cheese and smoked tomato bisque. Both recipes from Vindulge:

https://www.vindulge.com/brisket-grilled-cheese-sandwiches/ (https://www.vindulge.com/brisket-grilled-cheese-sandwiches/)
https://www.vindulge.com/smoked-tomato-bisque/ (https://www.vindulge.com/smoked-tomato-bisque//)


(https://i.imgur.com/cZ7ezoe.jpg)


If I was a Mod the Ban hammer would be out,Stop It.Next thing ya know badge and 94 will be throwing their results up here too.And Fearless will post pictures of Beef Ribs from Bone Daddy's - none of which I can reemotely hope to purloin or procure.Damn salads,steamed veggies with rice & beans
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2020, 04:32:10 PM
Speaking of food, this was lunch we had in Chablis.

(https://i.imgur.com/dYj4Uqd.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2020, 04:33:39 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/id6mbVN.jpg)

One thing I like about nice lunches in France is the cheese cart, which is dessert in effect.  (Entree of course is the ENTRY to the meal, not the main course.)  They roll these things out just as I'm thinking I AM FULL (je ne plus fam).  And I start again with some of this and that and oh, that one too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2020, 04:34:55 PM
And what would Chablis be without some photos of wine?

(https://i.imgur.com/n7yDG64.jpg)

This is one of my favorite, Jean Marc Brocard.  The dude is actually the brother of his daughter in law.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2020, 04:35:41 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/aeL9wyB.jpg)

This was the restaurant, if you are ever there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2020, 04:36:16 PM


(https://i.imgur.com/thMHOo5.png)

It's a nice lunch when you have a Grand Cru with it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2020, 04:37:26 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/EK5zypk.jpg)

Taken from our hotel balcony in Marseille, of the "Old Port".
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2020, 04:38:17 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/UZBTzTx.jpg)

Marseille.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 23, 2020, 04:43:25 PM
If I was a Mod the Ban hammer would be out,Stop It.Next thing ya know badge and 94 will be throwing their results up here too.And Fearless will post pictures of Beef Ribs from Bone Daddy's - none of which I can reemotely hope to purloin or procure.Damn salads,steamed veggies with rice & beans

so, obviously you inspired Cincy

BoneDaddy's doesn't offer beef ribs on the reg menu, but it was 2 years ago today that I was at Louie Mueller's in Taylor enjoying a beef rib
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2020, 04:50:03 PM


(https://i.imgur.com/oRUfgII.png)
This is inside the cathedral in Orlean (the old one).  I thought it was interesting given that we bombed that city flat almost in the war.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2020, 06:31:10 PM
A few things some might not know about France:

1.  The intercity freeways are nearly all tolls.  Speed limit is 130 kph.  They have rest stops called aires every few miles.
2.  They have an amazing number of types of mustard.
3.  The different regions are at least as different as they are in the US.  In Alsace and Brittany they still speak local languages somewhat.
4.  There is a WW One/Two memorial in every town and city listing names of those fallen.
5.  We heavily bombed a number of cities in France in WW 2, Rennes, Orlean, Caen, Rouen, among a few others.  Himmler had the Panier district of Marseille dynamited in 1943.
6.  They have strict zoning for the most part and little urban sprawl and few strip malls.
7.  Their main wines are very parallel to ours for the most part except zinfandel, which they don't have.  We can thank Jefferson in part for that.
8.  Smaller cities tend to have trams for intracity transport.  The lanes are VERY narrow in general.  Parking, fuggit about it.
9.  You can get a decent hotel outside Paris for around $100 or so a  night.  Paris is tres cher.
10.  The drivers are pretty good overall, they have quite strict driving tests.  They can be a bit aggressive in traffic, but about like in NYC.  You better make up your mind and do it quickly.
11.  The larger traffic circles have no lane markings, at all.  They can be entertaining.  Or not.  I once had my verbal GPS say "Take the seventh exit at the roundabout.".
12.  The young folks smoke a LOT.  Way more than here.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 23, 2020, 08:41:50 PM
all things I didn't know

interesting
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 23, 2020, 08:43:56 PM
[img width=273.429 height=332]https://i.imgur.com/id6mbVN.jpg[/img]

One thing I like about nice lunches in France is the cheese cart, which is dessert in effect.  (Entree of course is the ENTRY to the meal, not the main course.)  They roll these things out just as I'm thinking I AM FULL (je ne plus fam).  And I start again with some of this and that and oh, that one too.
Their cheese game is strong.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 23, 2020, 08:45:36 PM
better than Wisconsin?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 23, 2020, 08:46:59 PM

7.  Their main wines are very parallel to ours for the most part except zinfandel, which they don't have.  We can thank Jefferson in part for that.
Wasn't there a huge grape blight 100+ years ago that caused them to import vines from California?

Apparently Bordeaux is at the same latitude as Napa, and Rhone at the same latitude as Paso Robles. And hence Napa is Cab country while Paso loves their GSM blends...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 23, 2020, 08:48:14 PM
better than Wisconsin?
The ads here say good cheese comes from happy cows , and happy cows come from California. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 23, 2020, 08:54:25 PM
cows don't pay taxes, they could be very happy in Cali
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2020, 06:45:35 AM
Wasn't there a huge grape blight 100+ years ago that caused them to import vines from California?

Apparently Bordeaux is at the same latitude as Napa, and Rhone at the same latitude as Paso Robles. And hence Napa is Cab country while Paso loves their GSM blends...
Their vines were heavily hit by phylloxera in the late 1800s.  They managed by using root stock of vines from the US, not the entire vines, just the root stocks.  Vines are generally grafted onto roots.  They don't like talking about this.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_French_Wine_Blight

N (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_French_Wine_Blight)apa is at the same latitude as Rome/Spain and a fair bit south of Bordeaux.  Whether an area is good for cab depends on much more than latitude of course.  In Sonoma county for example, the Russian River valley is good for pinot/chardonnay, and 10 miles away in Alexander Valley it is good for cab and Rhone varietals.  The Rhone valley area is quite long but quite a bit north of Paso.  The broad term for where a certain varietal may be good is "terroir", which is a combination of soil, altitude, sun exposure, and latitude.  Soils that are4 gravely and drain well tend to be preferred, like the subregion called Graves in Bordeaux.  

Oddly, the expensive wines Petrus and Cheval Blanc in Bordeaux are in clay dominant areas.  Chablis is on a limestone outcropping (Kimmerridgian).  Champagne is the northern most major wine growing region and the vines are planted on south facing slopes to get as much direct sun as possible.  Their still wines reputedly are not very good which is why they nearly always are "carbonated" by a specific method.

The main wine regions of France are Bordeaux, Burgundy (which includes Chablis and Beaujolais), the Rhone valley, and Champagne.  If you know those, you are in good shape.  Bordeaux corresponds loosely to Napa and Burgundy with Sonoma (in parts) and Oregon, you need cooler weather at night for pinot noir and chardonnay.

Champagne is nearly always chardonnay, with at times pinot noir and pinot meunier, blanc de noir would have only the latter two and is still white wine.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2020, 07:31:15 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/B8NxW39.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2020, 07:35:55 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ai9RBuS.jpg)

If you ever read the book "Pillars of the Earth", you might get a fictional general idea of how these things were built, but seeing them in person, well, I can't imagine it anyway.  Aside from the shear size of the main pillars and the weight of those blocks cut and hoisted into place, there is the artistry of the carvings and stained glass that is incredible, literally.  This is the cathedral at Chartres, but the one at Orlean is perhaps even more impressive.

(https://i.imgur.com/YmohEpQ.jpg)


(https://i.imgur.com/Uwgz9jJ.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2020, 07:36:50 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/aE4csmN.jpg)

Orlean.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 24, 2020, 07:46:48 AM
Brisket grilled cheese and smoked tomato bisque. Both recipes from Vindulge:

https://www.vindulge.com/brisket-grilled-cheese-sandwiches/ (https://www.vindulge.com/brisket-grilled-cheese-sandwiches/)
https://www.vindulge.com/smoked-tomato-bisque/ (https://www.vindulge.com/smoked-tomato-bisque//)


(https://i.imgur.com/cZ7ezoe.jpg)


Boom, that's what I'm talking about. I do brisket grilled cheese pretty regularly, although my favorite use for leftover brisket is enchiladas.  I always use cheddar and maybe some monterrey jack, but their suggestion of mixing with gruyere or comte is a strong one.  Gruyere might be my favorite cheese on the planet.  

There's a restaurant in Houston that does a different take on brisket-grilled cheese, they use a housemade piemiento cheese spread as the cheese portion, and it adds a different whang to the whole deal.  Really tasty.

So, what wine would you say pairs best with brisket grilled cheese?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2020, 07:58:25 AM

So, what wine would you say pairs best with brisket grilled cheese?
I think I'd have to do many repeat experiments to answer this correctly.  Ha.

I'm going to throw a curve here and go with Sancere.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 24, 2020, 08:15:52 AM
Speaking of food, this was lunch we had in Chablis.

(https://i.imgur.com/dYj4Uqd.jpg)
I see a lot of plate with no food on it. ;)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2020, 08:18:44 AM
I see a lot of plate with no food on it. ;)
Yeah, this is of course typical of French cuisine, but I guarantee nobody leaves hungry.  This is sort of the antithesis of Golden Corral.

The wife once asked me if she would like GC and I said "No.".
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 24, 2020, 08:33:49 AM
Wasn't there a huge grape blight 100+ years ago that caused them to import vines from California?

Apparently Bordeaux is at the same latitude as Napa, and Rhone at the same latitude as Paso Robles. And hence Napa is Cab country while Paso loves their GSM blends...
Soil and precipitation are more important than latitude.


And enough with the California cow crap. Don't come calling when you knuckleheads run out of water.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 24, 2020, 08:34:19 AM
so, obviously you inspired Cincy

BoneDaddy's doesn't offer beef ribs on the reg menu, but it was 2 years ago today that I was at Louie Mueller's in Taylor enjoying a beef rib
Please no more pictures
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 24, 2020, 08:38:22 AM
I think I'd have to do many repeat experiments to answer this correctly.  Ha.

I'm going to throw a curve here and go with Sancere.
I think a big Zin would work quite well with that beautiful dish that I will be copying very soon.

I like this one, from Scott Harvey. His Barbera is excellent too.

(https://www.scottharveywines.com/assets/images/products/pictures/13-InZINerator-Cropped-BENJZE.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 24, 2020, 08:43:00 AM
A few things some might not know about France:

5.  We heavily bombed a number of cities in France in WW 2, Rennes, Orlean, Caen, Rouen, among a few others.  Himmler had the Panier district of Marseille dynamited in 1943.

From reading Max Hastings,John Keegan,Antony Beevo,Niall Barr - Normandy absolutely got pummeled.Forget the numbers but at least as many inhabitants as combatants perished.I had read during Montgomery's attempt to take Caen 7,000 tons of ordinance were dropped per mile from Air Corp and Naval Guns offshore.The Caen went from 65,000 to like 16,000 people.The countryside resembeled a lunar landscape and the city was ruble from descriptions
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 24, 2020, 08:45:42 AM
I see a lot of plate with no food on it. ;)
Rich people playing with their food
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2020, 08:48:11 AM
I've stayed in Caen.  And yes, quite a bit of it was leveled, as much by artillery and street fighting as bombing.  St. Lo was the same.  In between is the nice town of Bayeux which was not touched at all.  It is a great place to stay if you visit.

We bombed rail centers like Orlean and Rennes and Rouen where little street fighting happened.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 24, 2020, 10:12:32 AM
Yeah, this is of course typical of French cuisine, but I guarantee nobody leaves hungry.  This is sort of the antithesis of Golden Corral.

The wife once asked me if she would like GC and I said "No.".

I don't think ANYONE really likes GC.

The GC here went out of business
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 24, 2020, 11:13:08 AM
Please no more pictures

What, like this?


(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/58949801e58c62bf3713b669/1486138441562-P0PLSJ1FKJUBCTWXQ1W8/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kAGx3IFADtt9koaOuly55F57gQa3H78H3Y0txjaiv_0fDoOvxcdMmMKkDsyUqMSsMWxHk725yiiHCCLfrh8O1z4YTzHvnKhyp6Da-NYroOW3ZGjoBKy3azqku80C789l0pTKqSDRwmMK43IUI3HojJX_iGOyvGz0VEAhzFdMwNTUP3iYIRpjRWHZRVGJwIQ0nA/Beef+Ribs_13.jpg?format=1500w)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 24, 2020, 11:21:52 AM
N (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_French_Wine_Blight)apa is at the same latitude as Rome/Spain and a fair bit south of Bordeaux.  Whether an area is good for cab depends on much more than latitude of course.  In Sonoma county for example, the Russian River valley is good for pinot/chardonnay, and 10 miles away in Alexander Valley it is good for cab and Rhone varietals.  The Rhone valley area is quite long but quite a bit north of Paso.  The broad term for where a certain varietal may be good is "terroir", which is a combination of soil, altitude, sun exposure, and latitude.  Soils that are4 gravely and drain well tend to be preferred, like the subregion called Graves in Bordeaux. 

For me, the best thing to come out of the Russian River and/or Dry Creek areas is Zin... I like my Zin more fruity and peppery, though, not so much a fan of jammy zin.

But yes, I agree that terroir is much more important than latitude. Hence Sonoma Valley being "right next to" Napa Valley and yet the wines are so very different because of the foothills between them that block the clouds from reaching Napa Valley. So Napa is warmer and drier. 


So, what wine would you say pairs best with brisket grilled cheese?
Truthfully, I'd go with a beer pairing. You could go two ways. You could go with a big roasty flavor like an American stout, because that is a flavor that would stand up to all that cheese and the smoke. The other option would be to go clean and bitter to cut through the heaviness of the cheese. While you'd expect me to say IPA, this would be a good place for a hoppier pilsner. 

For wine, again I think you need something either with enough flavor and "pop" to stand up to the cheese and brisket. I think a big, heady, oaky Cab would distract. I'd go with a peppery Zinfandel [not a jammy one], or maybe a Syrah. Something with "punch you in the mouth" aggressiveness. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 24, 2020, 11:51:24 AM
It's not a smoked dino bone, but we made short ribs yesterday...

All credit goes to the wife on this one... Red wine braised short ribs (in the slow cooker) over sweet potato mash.

(https://i.imgur.com/KoddgDB.jpg)

Since we're on the subject of wine, a bottle of Unruly Cab was the braising liquid... 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 24, 2020, 02:14:34 PM
Looks delish, I'd eat that bwar.


And yes I agree that beer is the perfect pairing.  Pilsner is great, though I wouldn't go hoppy (obviously).  A delicious perfectly balanced Czech pilsner is the best pairing IMO.

(and when it comes to beer and BBQ, I've tried pretty much every pairing possible ;))

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2020, 02:22:43 PM
I have yet to try every beer-Q pairing possible.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 24, 2020, 02:33:02 PM
Bud Heavy pairs very well with BBQ, especially beef rib!

there's a pic of a Louie Mueller rib

 (https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16722648_10208716317964562_925792473593652910_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=e007fa&_nc_ohc=WOXt90YCOm0AX-X_gui&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=b36b03a54cf7e22f21526d72bc5bb4c9&oe=5EFE20A6)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2020, 07:09:49 PM
Rainy and dreary here all day, but I remind myself "Spring" is not too far off and rain is needed for plants and stuff.  I was off my training regime in France and am working back into it but have not been running yet.  I'd love to drop another 5 kg before baseball in January.  I'm going to do a bit more distance running until fall and work on swimming even though our poor is pretty limited.  The wife is fixing lentils for dinner, which I like.

The wife also bought me a piano today.  She seemed more excited that I.  They had them at Costco and I erred by stopping.  I have not really played in a LONG time, the parenting thing and all that, but hopefully can get back into it.  I sold my piano in Cincy before the move because I almost never played it and was frustrated when I tried.

(https://i.imgur.com/uOx4vsc.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 24, 2020, 07:36:20 PM
keep those fingers nimble for baseball

golf courses need rain
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 24, 2020, 08:53:39 PM
I have yet to try every beer-Q pairing possible.

Then you're not trying hard enough. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 24, 2020, 09:31:13 PM
have any of y'all ever heard of Duplin wine?  it's made nearby... it's a horrid thing. i wouldn't rec abusing yourselves with such... however... however they make a habanero wine... and it is- so wildly different than anything i've ever drank before it's worth not only mentioning, but actually pressing upon you guys to try if you encounter it.  it's sweet up front, much like their other almost italian syrup type 'wines', and you wonder why you bothered... and then that pepper hits you a full second afterward- finish? no... it's way past the 'finish'... it's not exactly hot, but.. it gets the other responses hot gets is the only way i can explain it.  it has heat, but not like biting into a scotch bonnet would be.  it's.... strange... in a very different but not bad (not exactly good either) way, and worth trying just for that reason alone..... it suggests there are many dimensions of wine i've never heard of before, though i hesitate calling it wine. 

i think they only do it every once in a while, and, i'm not sure how far 'duplin's' market reach is....   
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 24, 2020, 09:34:33 PM
I'd give it a try

I like sliced jalapenos in my margaritas  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2020, 07:38:53 AM
Wine, simply, is a fermented beverage made from fruit, any fruit.  If all the sugars are fermented, it's a "dry wine".  That is all that dry means, very low residual sugar levels.  Sweet wines are produced by interrupting fermentation to retain some sugar.  With port, they add alcohol to stop fermentation, for example.  Blackberry wine is wine, they usually leave it sweet.  Sake is not wine, it's more akin to beer, because neither use fruit for fermentation.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 25, 2020, 08:23:34 AM
Yeah sake is actually produced like beer, not wine.  I'll admit it here, I don't love it.  I'm okay with it and will usually have some if anyone orders some "for the table" but it's just too oddly sweet for me.  I'll typically order a Japanese beer or just drink water in its place. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2020, 10:34:58 AM
I'll drink nearly anything of high quality that has alcohol content

and some things that are not high quality according to utee
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2020, 11:38:09 AM
Jim Harbaugh and the Michigan Wolverines will not be traveling abroad in what has become an annual spring trip because of fears over the coronavirus, the school said Monday.

"The football team will not be taking an international trip this spring due to health concerns around the world, most notably coronavirus," team spokesman Dave Ablauf told MLive.com in a text message. "[We're] looking at doing some community service in the Ann Arbor area."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2020, 11:41:24 AM
There is some kind of Chinese liquor that is highly prized and very expensive and it TASTES LIKE .... bad stuff.  REALLY bad stuff.  I forget the name.

Wow, I just googled bad tasting Chinese liquor and Moutai came right up.  This tastes SO bad it's worth going out of your way to try it.  I have never tasted any alcoholic beverage ever close.

(https://i.imgur.com/lgXFtCb.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2020, 11:42:41 AM
According to Chinese media, baijiu is the best-selling liquor in the world, and Maotai is the most famous brand of baiju--and one of the few available in the United States. Maotai is pricey: Only finer Chinese restaurants in the States carry it, and the first time I tried it the bottle--stout, ceramic, and red, like a can of Chinese Barbasol--set us back $115 (fortunately, we split it 10 ways). It is normally served at room temperature, but like soju or sake it can be warmed on a burner.

Actually, Maotai's taste is easy to describe; what's hard is to explain why people would drink it. As Tim Clissold noted in his memoir, Mr. China,
Quote
I've never met anybody, even at the heights of alcoholic derangement, prepared to admit that they actually liked the taste ... After drinking it, most people screw up their faces in an involuntary expression of pain and some even yell out.
To be fair, baijiu is undeniably popular, a staple of the Chinese banquet scene (though, according to the New York Times, the Beijing liquid lunch is fading fast (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/08/world/asia/08china.html)). Maotai has been in production for over 200 years and is a regular winner at international liquor competitions, roping in 14 since the Chinese Revolution. And yet, and yet ... distilled peas. Zimmern, you have your challenge.


https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2009/04/is-this-the-best-selling-liquor-in-the-world/13060/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2009/04/is-this-the-best-selling-liquor-in-the-world/13060/)



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2020, 11:53:16 AM
Wow, I just googled bad tasting Chinese liquor and Moutai came right up.  This tastes SO bad it's worth going out of your way to try it.  I have never tasted any alcoholic beverage ever close.


like the raccoon commercials?
I'm not going that far out of my way
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 25, 2020, 12:04:41 PM
What gets me is that most distilled liquors, until you acquire the taste for them, taste "horrible."

They BURN going down. It doesn't matter how good of a liquor it is, Johnnie Walker Blue or the best tequila or six-times distilled vodka. That much alcohol in any solution creates a burning sensation. 

If you give something like that to someone who has never had liquor, they're going to screw up their face and wonder why you're trying to poison them.

It's only after you've acquired the taste, and learned to distinguish the subtle flavors that accompany the sensation, and start to appreciate those flavors, that you can even stomach such drinks. 

People don't start by drinking whiskey. They drink a whiskey & coke, or a whiskey sour, or a 7&7, and slowly acclimate their palate to start appreciating what the whiskey starts bringing to the table. Then they might drink it straight on the rocks (the cold blunts the flavor and sensation), and only if they decide they really like it do they start drinking it neat. 

Many people never do. They try to find the smoothest vodka they can, drop it into a cocktail full of fruit and sugar to mask the flavor/sensation, and never would consider drinking straight liquors because they simply don't like it. 

I'll bet that appreciating baiju is much like appreciating fine whiskey here; seen as a sign of sophistication. So people put in the time and effort to develop the taste for it, and for some of them (like here with whiskey) they actually grow to enjoy and appreciate it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2020, 12:16:31 PM
Baiju tastes HORRIBLE, indescribably bad, not anything close to my first taste of spirits or Scotch.  We should all get together and try it some time.  I guarantee you you'd be amazed at how awful it is and not want another drink.  You could mix it 1:9 with Coke and it would taste horrible.

It tastes like stale fermented skunk piss that was left out to rot for a year.

No, it's worse than that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2020, 12:22:06 PM
https://www.foodandwine.com/cocktails-spirits/youve-never-tasted-anything-baijiu (https://www.foodandwine.com/cocktails-spirits/youve-never-tasted-anything-baijiu)

What It’s Like: Baijiu is hard to pin down. Its flavor is different from any other spirit, so the usual descriptors like smoky, citrusy, fruity, etc., don’t really apply. And Moutai is one of the most distinct baijius—it’s classified as a “sauce” fragrance, the boldest of the classifications, which also include thick fragrance, light fragrance and honey fragrance. This is going to sound unappetizing, but there is definitely something rotten about it—and that’s good. There’s a funk—like sweet, rotting fruit or really good Parmesan. You might taste a touch of nutty sherry on the periphery or homemade blackberry eau-de-vie, but that’s just your American brain grasping at memory straws in an effort to articulate what you’re tasting. There is one thing I can say for sure: It is distinctly savory. Not salty, but savory and funky and fermented. As for the high alcohol level, there’s no burn on the palate but you’ll feel a subtle warmth in your chest.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 25, 2020, 12:36:08 PM
Baiju tastes HORRIBLE, indescribably bad, not anything close to my first taste of spirits or Scotch.  We should all get together and try it some time.  I guarantee you you'd be amazed at how awful it is and not want another drink.  You could mix it 1:9 with Coke and it would taste horrible.

It tastes like stale fermented skunk piss that was left out to rot for a year.

No, it's worse than that.
Granted, I've never had baiju. So I don't have a basis for comparison with my own taste buds.

But you're talking about a culture where heavily-fermented foods are used and enjoyed MUCH more frequently than in any western cuisine. Think kimchi. Think stinky tofu. Think fish sauce. We're talking about a cuisine where durian is prized, but stinks so badly that it's banned from public transport? There are a lot of flavors in Chinese and Asian cuisine that are completely foreign to westerners. 

Is it that odd that the various flavor descriptors sound similar to some of the other fermented foods common to the area? "Funk", "barnyard", etc? 

I think it might be more of a case that "it tastes absolutely HORRIBLE to western palates", not that it's objectively horrible. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2020, 12:40:08 PM
I like roquefort and other strong cheeses a lot. I like kimchi. I like Lagovulin.  I like Woodford, cognac, marc, Calvados, Irish whiskey, grappa ... I've even eaten seiche.  I worked for years in a lab with organosulfur compounds that would make skunk odor seem nice.

I get your point about the flavors of Chinese foods, and I'm sure (??) for many Chinese this is good stuff.  I'm merely stating emphatically that FOR ME it is beyond the most horrible thing I have ever tasted.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 25, 2020, 12:45:02 PM
Mmmmmm roquefort.  Perhaps my second favorite cheese in all the world.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2020, 12:49:27 PM
grappa and roquefort

perfect pairing!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 25, 2020, 12:53:07 PM
I'm merely stating emphatically that FOR ME it is beyond the most horrible thing I have ever tasted.
Fair 'nuff.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 25, 2020, 12:57:05 PM
grappa and roquefort

perfect pairing!

Sure why not?!?!

Sauternes is the king for that pairing, but I really love to drink rose' or dry Bordeaux Blanc with it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2020, 01:12:01 PM
I like the extra "kick" in the grappa
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on February 25, 2020, 01:20:55 PM
Baijiu (I believe that's pronounced bai-jYO) isn't all horrible.  My introduction into it also informed me that it has quite a range of aroma and intensity across brands.  The only constant is the mineral water appearance.  It definitely has complexity and a plum brandy type mouthfeel. 

In my view it's no more extreme or powerful as slivovitz or other eastern European plum brandies which are often. 110+ proof.  It's not what I want, and it's barely around the States I'm guessing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 25, 2020, 01:23:16 PM
Jim Harbaugh and the Michigan Wolverines will not be traveling abroad in what has become an annual spring trip because of fears over the coronavirus, the school said Monday.

"The football team will not be taking an international trip this spring due to health concerns around the world, most notably coronavirus," team spokesman Dave Ablauf told MLive.com in a text message. "[We're] looking at doing some community service in the Ann Arbor area."

I'm told that there are no plans for a replacement trip to Indianapolis in December as it has been deemed unrealistic. - Kevin Harrish, 11 Warriors.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2020, 01:42:06 PM
Does Harbaugh have any plans for a trip to Indianapolis in December?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2020, 02:20:57 PM
Indianapolis is beautiful in December

and obviously always full of culture and history!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on February 25, 2020, 02:38:26 PM
Indianapolis is beautiful in December

and obviously always full of culture and history!
It was very nice here this December.  😀
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2020, 02:47:09 PM
I'm up for another December visit....

hopefully, Coach Frost is up to the challenge 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2020, 02:51:34 PM
Does Harbaugh have any plans for a trip to Indianapolis in December?


Sure does, but plans often fail.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2020, 06:01:54 PM
It hit 67°F here which was nice today.  A work crew outside nicked a main water line and our building is sans water and the street is flooded pretty badly.  This has been going on since 1 PM, still gushing.  They were replacing a sewer line to the restaurant below us.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2020, 06:09:58 PM
inconvenient, but less so that nicking the gas line

shit happens when working underground
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2020, 06:26:58 PM
I'm thinking CDawg doesn't have gas service in his building. I recall discussion about an induction cooktop.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2020, 06:33:11 PM
Only 194 days to go now.

Today, Purdue officially begins its journey to that season opener at Nebraska on September 5. The Boilermakers open spring practice on Monday. It's the beginning of what, to an outside observer at least, looks like a crucial season for the long-term trajectory of the program.


You could say the same about Nebraska's 2020, which sets up a high-stakes opener the likes of which we haven't seen at Nebraska in quite some time.

https://hailvarsity.com/s/9028/hot-reads-a-high-stakes-opener-already-taking-shape (https://hailvarsity.com/s/9028/hot-reads-a-high-stakes-opener-already-taking-shape)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2020, 06:37:16 PM
I'm thinking CDawg doesn't have gas service in his building. I recall discussion about an induction cooktop.
You are correct.  We do somehow have gas water heaters on the roof I'm told.  Hot water is included in our HOA, along with water.  Our HOA is pretty reasonable I think considering it includes that plus cable and internet, 24 hour security, a pool and gym and common areas.  I was paying nearly $200 a month for internet and cable.

My last electric bill for heat etc. was $88, but we were out of town.  Our old house needed painting every 4 years or so, it had wood siding.  That was over $100 a month I don't pay now.  My property taxes are double but the price of the condo is double.

The induction range incidentally is superb IMHO.  I MUCH prefer it to gas.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2020, 07:00:00 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/gWyyqCf.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2020, 07:01:42 PM
The torrent of water has stopped.  I'm hearing someone with a serious power saw cutting metal who just stopped as guys were yelling at him to stop.  He's back at it now.  There are EIGHT large trucks out there, two popo cars, flashing lights, a Bobcat, and about 40 men standing around looking officious, and one dude in the trench with said power saw.  Oh, and Klieg lights now of course.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 25, 2020, 07:38:37 PM
  I was paying nearly $200 a month for internet and cable.

That's your own fault.  Cable providers are jacking up rates as they lose customers and prey on people who don't know any better.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 25, 2020, 07:57:18 PM
That's your own fault.  Cable providers are jacking up rates as they lose customers and prey on people who don't know any better.
I know better. I got rid of cable because I refuse to stomach that cost.

But my internet is >$100/mo because I live in a place were I have a choice of that for reasonable speeds, or DSL at 3 Mbps. And I literally mean that; it's not a typo. 3 Mbps. You can't reliably stream in standard def at 3 Mbps. 

So my entertainment cost is $102/mo for internet, $45/mo for Hulu Live TV, and $16/mo for Netflix. That's not much worse than what @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) was paying, and without getting my TV from the cable company.

In a rational locale with internet competition, I'd bet I'd cut that internet cost in half. But there is no competition here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2020, 07:58:11 PM
It was my CHOICE.  I accepted the trade in a free market.  I felt it was worth it.  The alternatives for me were not as appealing.

Now, it's all in my HOA bill.  I'm still paying for it, it's just hidden, sort of, and I don't have a choice now of course, but it works for me.  Some of my neighbors don't like it at all because they don't use cable.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 25, 2020, 08:04:57 PM
It was my CHOICE.  I accepted the trade in a free market.  I felt it was worth it.  The alternatives for me were not as appealing.
Well, I understand that's a choice... But I disagree that it's anything approaching a free market.

Your choice was between a government-granted monopoly to your cable provider, or cobbling together a hodgepodge of services on the open market, or going satellite for TV at similar cost, while being bent over the barrel from said cable provider for your internet. 

I understand that sometimes dealing with a single provider is easier than a hodgepodge. But nothing regarding the cable/internet market is even remotely a free market.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2020, 10:31:29 PM
part of the reason great internet service is not competitive is the cost to bring fiber optic cable to your house

part of the cost is insurance and damage to other underground utilities such as the water main or the gas line
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on February 25, 2020, 10:42:09 PM
Truth.  Metronet has been invading my hood and while they offer competition here to uverse and spectrum,  they seem to be on a tear, through mains of all kind throughout the hood.  Some mixed reviews about them.   They obliterated the water and sprinkler lines at my old house.  That happened not two weeks after we sold and moved out.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2020, 08:20:24 AM
When I moved in with the wife, they had satellite, DirecTV I think.  AT&T also offered coverage, as did two or three other groups.  I liked Roadrunner, and I changed the house over to it.  It was a lot faster and more reliable and the additional cost was minimal, if any.  It seems like a competitive market to me.

I don't have choice now of course, it's DirecTV and it seems to be decent.  

The street outside is "Fixed".  They put two metal plates over the hole with some asphalt to ease the transition.  I'm sort of impressed they finished it last night.

I see separately trucks putting in "cable" all over which is presume is fiber optic.  It's usually an orange "cable" that comes on hoops.  We are supposed to get a 3.3x speed upgrade here shortly, we're told.  I don't know if that is related.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 26, 2020, 10:32:39 AM
When I moved in with the wife, they had satellite, DirecTV I think.  AT&T also offered coverage, as did two or three other groups.  I liked Roadrunner, and I changed the house over to it.  It was a lot faster and more reliable and the additional cost was minimal, if any.  It seems like a competitive market to me.
Ahh, I stand corrected. Consider yourself lucky, as there are a great many of us who have only one option or who have one good option and one completely non-viable option.

Nobody here wants to build out a wired alternative to the cable company in a 50 year old neighborhood when wireless 5G home internet is around the corner, so until that build-out arrives, I'm stuck with the cable company's internet.

Which works fine and is fast, to be fair, but it is much more expensive than it would be if there was competition.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2020, 10:38:10 AM
Of course, we all would prefer to be able to choose better TV packages.  I get a thousand channels or so now and watch maybe 15 or so, ever. 

It would be "nice" to pay for those 15.  I realize this isn't how it works.

When I was a kid in Augusta, GA, we got two channels.  We moved to ATL in 1964 and got THREE!!!!  Then UHF started up and we kinda got four, the UHF channel was 17 and very poor reception, and that became TBS.  Somewhere in there PBS started.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2020, 11:34:40 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/wjepGDH.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 26, 2020, 12:41:43 PM
the Orange stuff could very well be fiber optic cable, but could also be duct that the fiber is pushed or pulled through later

duct is a great investment, cost the same to be placed, but can be more easily spliced and then new or additional fiber cable pulled
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2020, 01:04:31 PM
I read somewhere we're getting fiber optic in the area.  Ah, it's "google fiber" and the orange is indeed conduit.

https://www.wabe.org/google-fiber-construction-begins-midtown-atlanta/ (https://www.wabe.org/google-fiber-construction-begins-midtown-atlanta/)

Six months after announcing that Google Fiber was coming to Atlanta, construction has begun in Midtown. 

Crews are laying down cables underground and building 23 fiber huts to store equipment in the metro area. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 26, 2020, 05:08:23 PM
Of course, we all would prefer to be able to choose better TV packages.  I get a thousand channels or so now and watch maybe 15 or so, ever. 

It would be "nice" to pay for those 15.  I realize this isn't how it works.

with the right 15 channels it might cost quite a bit more than the price for a thousand
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2020, 05:17:51 PM
The few times I channel surf by one channel I'm AMAZED how many "networks" are shopping channels.  Some are focused solely on say gold coins, and there is more than one.  There are a bunch of music channels as well, but I understand that.  The sound quality does not seem to be very good.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 26, 2020, 05:25:32 PM
the shopping channels don't charge the carrier  - FREE

the music channels are not high fidelity , but cost pennies
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2020, 08:15:49 AM
Yeah, the music channels are free, and they are not good fidelity at all.  The Radio Classique the wife brings up seems to be pretty good fidelity.  She still won't let me crank up the volume if she's here.  We only have a common wall with one neighbor and he told me he can't hear our stereo.  His office is on the other side of the wall.

I got a new receiver a few months back and was surprised at the improvement in fidelity.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MichiFan87 on February 27, 2020, 11:45:22 AM
I think we've discussed streaming options before, but YouTubeTV works well for me and anyone else who primarily watches sports and occasionally news channels along with some other common channels. It's only $50 / mo and can be shared with up to 6 people (within close geographic proximity) and up to 3 devices can be used simultaneously.

Supposedly wifi networks could become obsolete by 5G, but I haven't met anyone who's done that yet.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 27, 2020, 11:47:43 AM
true, but you'll need a 5G antenna in your Roku box or your smart TV or your Fire Stick and your laptop and tablet and desktop and any other device
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on February 27, 2020, 11:49:51 AM
One of the issues with just buying the 15 channels you want is networks won't sell you the one station you want out of their catalog.  They want to leverage them.   You want the food network, here is animal planet, HGTV, Discovery, etc that comes with it.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 27, 2020, 11:51:20 AM
that's where the FCC needs to step in

haven't yet and lobby money says they will not anytime soon
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2020, 12:12:58 PM
I understand why we can't cafeteria cable channels, but I wish we could.  I just live with the profusion of ridiculous channels.  

Since I live in a condo, I don't have choice anyway, and frankly what we have is pretty good.  I get SEC N and can listen to Paul Finebaum all day, and his erudite callers.

Whatever became of Australian Rules Football?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 27, 2020, 12:39:52 PM
Supposedly wifi networks could become obsolete by 5G, but I haven't met anyone who's done that yet.
true, but you'll need a 5G antenna in your Roku box or your smart TV or your Fire Stick and your laptop and tablet and desktop and any other device
Exactly. More likely you'll have a 5G ethernet/wifi router, rather than a "cable modem". 

The wifi infrastructure is ubiquitous and won't be going away anytime soon. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2020, 12:41:38 PM
true, but you'll need a 5G antenna in your Roku box or your smart TV or your Fire Stick and your laptop and tablet and desktop and any other device
Exactly.  I don't consume video over my phone, I hate the small size and find it practically worthless.  I understand some people like it, which is fine.  

I consume video almost exclusively on television sets.  Occasionally on the laptop, but really only when I'm searching up DIY videos and such.  Never on a phone or tablet.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 27, 2020, 12:51:11 PM
F*** IT drop Cable.Sack Up "Hey what's this lying around shit,what over...over - nothing is over until we decide it is,was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?Hell no and it ain't over now,who's with me?Where's the spirit?Where's the guts huh?This could be the greatest night of our lives,but you're gonna let it be the worst.Ew,we're afraid to go with you bluto we might get in trouble - well just kiss my ass from now on,not me,I'm not gonna take this,AT&T,they're dead,Direct TV - dead,Dish - dead.......
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2020, 12:56:42 PM
We were in Costco yesterday, I was getting an eye appt, and whilst waiting for this and that was assailed by the TV section.  They had an 84 INCH monster up there for something like $2200.  It was a WALL.  Even up close I could not make out pixels, I know they were feeding it 4 K.

This S is amazing to me, and the QLED stuff is even more so.  I have a 65" class 1 K TV that I still think is "just fine".  I'm looking for what to do with my stock market gains.  (Perhaps I should check it out today.)

The wife bought me a piano at Costco the day before that, I may have mentioned, a new fangled piano kind of thing.  It has good action.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 27, 2020, 12:57:58 PM
 what we have is pretty good.  I get SEC N and can listen to Paul Finebaum all day, and his erudite callers.

Not sure if that lines up with having it pretty good but hey this is 'Murica
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 27, 2020, 01:44:25 PM
We were in Costco yesterday, I was getting an eye appt, and whilst waiting for this and that was assailed by the TV section.  They had an 84 INCH monster up there for something like $2200.  It was a WALL.  Even up close I could not make out pixels, I know they were feeding it 4 K.

This S is amazing to me, and the QLED stuff is even more so.  I have a 65" class 1 K TV that I still think is "just fine".  I'm looking for what to do with my stock market gains.  (Perhaps I should check it out today.)

I would point out that the picture you see in those displays won't be the level of quality you'll actually see when you're watching TV, *even* if you're watching 4K content.

Any broadcast content (whether OTA, cable/satellite, or streaming) is heavily compressed to reduce the bit rate they have to transmit. It's compressed to the point where the 4K stuff is not really THAT much better than 1K to your eyeballs.

These demonstration videos, or any 4K content you get on UltraHD Blu-Ray discs, however, will be as high of a bit rate as they can make it, since they don't have to send it over a pipe or over the air. So if you watch a lot of movies stored on discs, you'll get a better experience with 4K, but if you're watching anything broadcast it won't be much better.

The technology for 4K is far better, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the broadcasts will take advantage of that technology.


Quote
I'm looking for what to do with my stock market gains.
With coronavirus, you still have those?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2020, 01:50:14 PM
Was joke.  And no, I'm not buying a TV any time soon.  I do enjoy the stuff they show at Costco and understand it's not what I'd get at home.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 27, 2020, 02:27:40 PM
This S is amazing to me, and the QLED stuff is even more so.  I have a 65" class 1 K TV that I still think is "just fine".  I'm looking for what to do with my stock market gains.  (Perhaps I should check it out today.)


don't look, BadgerFan will be going to lunch with his broker soon
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 27, 2020, 02:40:52 PM
The following is how 247Sports national analyst Barton Simmons ranks the league's starting quarterbacks, from top to bottom, ahead of the 2020 season with insight on a few of the most notable:

https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/Ranking-the-Big-Ten-starting-quarterbacks-in-2020-Ohio-State-Buckeyes-Michigan-Wolverines-Penn-State-Nebraska-144276988/#144276988_1 (https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/Ranking-the-Big-Ten-starting-quarterbacks-in-2020-Ohio-State-Buckeyes-Michigan-Wolverines-Penn-State-Nebraska-144276988/#144276988_1)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on February 28, 2020, 09:20:23 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/pEQUUWI.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 28, 2020, 01:02:15 PM
Well it's not like it's easy to find this stuff in 4K yet.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 28, 2020, 01:13:02 PM
So, we have two heat pumps that operate using water, and the main one is apparently not pumping heat.  I've recycled it a number of times and one time it heated and stopped.  Meh.

I guess I'm saving on electricity but it's a bit nippy here today.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 28, 2020, 01:48:01 PM
So, we have two heat pumps that operate using water, and the main one is apparently not pumping heat.  I've recycled it a number of times and one time it heated and stopped.  Meh.

I guess I'm saving on electricity but it's a bit nippy here today.
I repainted the kitchen wall where the thermostat is mounted just before Christmas.

Because I wasn't happy with the old thermostat, I ended up not fully hooking it up (just putting it back on the wall) and ordered a new one. So it's not actually hooked up to the furnace. 

Because I live in SoCal and really don't need to run the heat anyway, I haven't felt a lot of pressure to put the new thermostat in yet. Been too busy with other things.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 28, 2020, 02:52:56 PM
I got a service call for Monday to see what's up.  Maybe it needs Freon, I hope.  It's a very unusual heat pump that runs off the water supply.  Our bills are very low so I guess they work well.  Tonight is going to be frosty but the bedroom is on a floor with a working pump so we're good.  Then it warms up and if the sun is out we can heat the place with the sun pretty well.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 28, 2020, 07:59:02 PM
geothermal wells that temper the water for the heating AC units

Cincy, probably too far to walk, but I'm watching diners drive-ins

looks good

https://www.joycafeatl.com/ (https://www.joycafeatl.com/)

1100 Peachtree St NE #110, Atlanta, GA 30309
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 29, 2020, 08:03:57 AM
beautiful spring day here, headed to Columbus, NE for a round of golf

and a few Bud Heavies!

FORE!!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 29, 2020, 08:16:48 AM
don't look, BadgerFan will be going to lunch with his broker soon
Nope. I'm a long play guy. This doesn't bother me at all. I do feel sorry for all the poor saps who bailed this week though.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 29, 2020, 08:57:49 AM
I've got a profit sharing payment coming from 2019, hits my 401K account at the start of the 2nd quarter, around the first week of April.

Hopefully the markets are still way down so I can buy low
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on February 29, 2020, 09:00:09 AM
doesn't often happen that I'm playing golf near home on the 29th of Feb.

life is good
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CatsbyAZ on February 29, 2020, 10:06:22 AM
For anyone who is ever wondering what Penn State's Larry Johnson is up to, he's very active on twitter, ranting like an Ancient Aliens episode in his endless promotion of conspiracy theories, especially those pertaining to Satanism, Illuminati, and other world control by the global elite. 90% of his tweets relate to Satanism governing Pop Culture.

Exhibit C:

https://twitter.com/2LarryJohnson7/status/1232141524550459393
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on February 29, 2020, 10:16:21 AM
geothermal wells that temper the water for the heating AC units

Cincy, probably too far to walk, but I'm watching diners drive-ins

looks good

https://www.joycafeatl.com/ (https://www.joycafeatl.com/)

1100 Peachtree St NE #110, Atlanta, GA 30309
Joy Cafe is three blocks away, easy walk.  HOWEVER, we went there once and were seated outside with menus and no one came to take our order.  Servers were clearing tables around us and I asked if one could take our order, and I was told that we should check in at the counter to be seated.

I waved the menu in her face and said "WE DID" and walked out.

Haven't been back, too many other options nearby.  And I didn't see anything on the menu that was fascinating.

I'd guess there are 100 restaurants in easy walking distance, many of them are excellent.

There is a seafood place next door that is expensive and not worth it IMHO.  There is a steak place across the street called STK we have not tried because I can do steak pretty easily.  We have a Persian place opening soon down the block.  That looks promising.  For some reason, we have really good Indian and Italian places nearby.

Another place of interest is Empire State South which we only tried for breakfast.  Too many options.
Nice and sunny and chilly today, I got the main floor up from 63°F to 68°F this morning with the sun.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on February 29, 2020, 11:02:07 AM
beautiful spring day here, headed to Columbus, NE for a round of golf

and a few Bud Heavies!

FORE!!!!
Quail run by chance?   I loved playing there in college.   My roommate was from there. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 01, 2020, 09:07:13 AM
72 and sunny yesterday, I enjoyed our nice Spring day.  Supposed to hit 80 today, so Hello Summer, I guess. :)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 01, 2020, 09:44:36 AM
Joy Cafe is three blocks away, easy walk.  HOWEVER, we went there once and were seated outside with menus and no one came to take our order.  Servers were clearing tables around us and I asked if one could take our order, and I was told that we should check in at the counter to be seated.

I waved the menu in her face and said "WE DID" and walked out.

well, that sucks


supposedly amazing shrimp and grits, and some great biscuits and gravy
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 01, 2020, 09:51:16 AM
Quail run by chance?  I loved playing there in college.  My roommate was from there.
Yes, Quail Run on the Loup River.  Unfortunately, the flooding last spring shut down the 9 holes over the dike.
I've also played tournaments at the uppity course cut out of the arboretum across town, Elks Country Club.

I have a great friend in Columbus that works at a consulting engineering firm.  He's retiring in two weeks.
Passionate about golf and the Huskers.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2020, 11:03:11 AM
well, that sucks


supposedly amazing shrimp and grits, and some great biscuits and gravy
Shrimp and grits is a big things hereabouts at moderately upscale trendy places.  I don't order it any more.  It's not bad, but not worth $18 or so IMHO.

There is another place near us called The Flying Biscuit that is pretty good also but very crowded.  For brunch, we usually go to Cafe Intermezzo that has Salmon on Eggs Benedict with smoked salmon that is $12 and fantastic.  The Nook is decent also.  

I probably will give Joy another shot someday, maybe.  They do have a decent patio, though it's right on the street.  Some of the less busy streets have quieter patios.

We both really like dining out doors and nearly every place here has that option.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 01, 2020, 11:22:16 AM
I'm a guy that gives 2nd chances to eating establishments

anyone can have a bad shift or a bad day/night
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2020, 01:06:37 PM
Yeah, I would have gone back before now, but there are too many other options we're exploring, and it seems more open up every month.  When we go for walks, we often discover a new place that just opened around the 'hood.  There is a new place downtown called "By George" that sounds interesting and it's in an historic building, and a friend told us "A Mano" is the best Italian food he's had in ATL.  My step daughter is arriving this evening and we're going to the Barcelona Wine Bar with her, we went a couple months back and liked it, but we pretty much have to drive to it.  It's a chain, and I often eschew chains unless they are good.

Lure is another place we like along with South City Kitchen.  That bar Badger found down on Cypress we have yet to try.  We have three Indian places within walking distance that are quite good.  I'd like a Korean place nearby, there are some Korean hybrid places, but no pure K.

It's nice to walk to a place and have no worries about drinking.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 02, 2020, 07:28:23 AM
Ming found that bar, not me. But he did an excellent job of scoping. It was perfect.

We closed on our house in Florida on Friday. So, that's done. On to the kitchen and bathrooms.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on March 02, 2020, 10:08:40 AM
Ming found that bar, not me. But he did an excellent job of scoping. It was perfect.

We closed on our house in Florida on Friday. So, that's done. On to the kitchen and bathrooms.
As a person who left the snow, welcome to the south. You will notice your SEC speed after a few months. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 02, 2020, 10:12:39 AM
Heh. Hanging around the neighborhood for a few days left me with the impression that I've just simply bought a place in the Southern Midwest. Seems like everyone down there is from somewhere around here.

One of the next-door neighbors is a Badger..
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 02, 2020, 10:39:03 AM
Nearly everyone I know here is from somewhere else.  It was like that in 1970 as well.

The metro population is expected to grow about 100,000 per year, with a lot of spread, though folks are moving back into the city now.  We drove to the airport yesterday afternoon and the freeway was stop and go, no accidents, just Sunday traffic, on a 7 lane freeway.  I would have taken the subway but the wife wanted to drive, and it was our daughter coming in from Paris and they land at the international terminal which is not convenient for the subway.

"they" spent $1.5 billion on that terminal and it has 12 gates.  Twelve gates.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 02, 2020, 10:48:44 AM
ORD has 21, and will expand to 31 by next year. Then they will move the "global" terminal to a new one and push all the low budget carriers to the current international terminal, which feels like a jail at present.

I'm not sure where all this money is coming from. It ain't gonna be from me for much longer.

https://www.ord21.com/home/pages/default.aspx
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 02, 2020, 10:53:04 AM
One of the next-door neighbors is a Badger..
damn the luck
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 02, 2020, 11:00:36 AM
His house is for sale. I'm good with that because I already hate his barking hairy naked man. I'd rather have an OSU neighbor with no hairy naked man.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 02, 2020, 11:51:42 AM
Sorry to hear about the loss of your great friend, Gary

a good Badger
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 02, 2020, 12:17:19 PM
Word travels fast. He was young too.

He passed just before Noon yesterday, just as we were about to board our plane home from Florida.

I'm waiting to hear from his son on arrangements.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 02, 2020, 01:28:01 PM
The HVAC tech is here, well, he went to his truck for something.  Have been without heat on two floors for four days now, it has not gotten too bad.  I hope it is minor, duh, some part.  We have a heat pump that runs on water.  I guess these midrise buildings don't want to have any kind of outlet marring the exterior.

Be nice to have the heat on again, it's probably 60°F in my office.  Our bedroom has a separate unit which is working fine on the third floor.

P.S.  Heat back on, the tech said is was a "quick fix", the compressor is bad and he couldn't say how long it would last.  $500 for a quick fix.  It doesn't really sound great, I probably shoulda replaced it.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 02, 2020, 09:42:37 PM
The step daughter is in from Paris and wanted BBQ, so despite the driving rain (I was driving) I took her to Fox Brothers, which I had somewhat panned on my first trip.  Well, OK, I change my opinion, it is quite good.  The brisket is excellent and the pulled pork is solid, the sides are very good.  A lot of places are flooded on the streets due to rain.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on March 03, 2020, 08:50:49 PM
Wow. It's been a rough winter for the Park Street tailgate gang. Gary was a damn good dude. 

Let us know when you hear of the arrangements. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2020, 06:56:15 AM
There is a visitation at 2PM on Saturday, until 4, and then a service. Of course, after that, there is a "party" at a bar in Racine.

Just as he would want.

We'll be at the visitation for sure. Can't stay for the party due to a "party" for another one back down here.



(We were THE Regent Street Crew. Not anymore. It's over. Gary and Joe started it and they were the glue.)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2020, 07:01:37 AM
https://meredithfuneralhome.com/obituaries/gary-c-hagen.130833
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on March 04, 2020, 08:02:11 AM
Man, just saw this.  I'm sorry Badge.  Gary was a fun guy.    
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 04, 2020, 08:25:33 AM
Condolences badge!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2020, 09:07:58 AM
(We were THE Regent Street Crew. Not anymore. It's over. Gary and Joe started it and they were the glue.)
blessed to experience the Regent Street Crew a few times
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2020, 10:29:43 AM
Thanks guys. I'll pass this all along on Saturday.

Anyway, I made a post on the board to the South that many are afraid of (heh) and it goes like this:




2 questions for investors to ask:

1. Is the event driven by fear?

2. Is the event sustainable?


I point everyone here to what happened to the S&P when China invented SARS and MRSA.

(hint: ~ 13 percent losses)


This new Chinese virus invention? ~ 13 percent loss.

Take a look at what the S&P has done since China invented MRSA. Then go back and look what it's done since SARS.


There are 2 things that are consistent in this. The losses, and China. One will go away. The other one needs to go away, and hopefully take its crappy national healthcare system with it.



Thank me later.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2020, 10:46:52 AM
I'm a young guy, in for the long haul

unfortunately, my daughter's 529 account won't be around much longer, last semester, (I hope)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 04, 2020, 10:58:19 AM
Thanks guys. I'll pass this all along on Saturday.

Anyway, I made a post on the board to the South that many are afraid of (heh) and it goes like this

This new Chinese virus invention? ~ 13 percent loss. 

Just seeing this condolences on the loss of your friend Gary.Cindy mentioned/believes the virus was a malevolent creation is that what your sayin'?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: iahawk15 on March 04, 2020, 11:02:41 AM
If we're making predictions, I'll guess the Dow hits ~24K before it hits a new high.

Secondary guess. If it falls to 22K, QE5 is announced and we're off to the races again.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on March 04, 2020, 10:04:16 PM
https://meredithfuneralhome.com/obituaries/gary-c-hagen.130833


:'(
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2020, 11:24:48 PM
Yeah, me too. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2020, 08:10:46 AM
I think I hate death in others a lot more than I fear my own.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2020, 09:36:06 AM
agreed

I've had a good life.  Few regrets
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2020, 03:09:02 PM
A guy I knew from fantasy camp died last year, out of the blue.  He was 46, in apparent good health, he played baseball months before.  Nobody knew what he died of, and his wife wasn't saying.  We went to the memorial service and the place was mobbed, like 500 people there, not just baseball players.  A lot of folks spoke kindly of him, obviously, but they all had the same basic story, he was the kind of guy who made everyone around him happier.

I've tried to learn something from that, though I'm naturally taciturn.  But this year at camp I made an effort to welcome the "rooks" and have more fun.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 05, 2020, 03:48:06 PM
Just curious how old were the rooks? :coffee2:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 05, 2020, 04:01:52 PM
agreed

I've had a good life.  Few regrets
Not long enough yet. 30 more years. Get those bones out of the cold already.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2020, 04:27:07 PM
yup, the good is pretty much set, working on the long.

obviously can't take the "long" for granted

planning on a huge steak/prime rib dinner tonight with good friends and many good drinks

gotta keep taking nourishment
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2020, 04:35:24 PM
Just curious how old were the rooks? :coffee2:
The rookies were the same age as the rest of us for the most part, no old guys like me though.  They were 30-45 in the main.  Most claimed they would be back, but I know at that age many have "other priorities".

I now have the time and the means for such excursions, but not always the physical abilities obviously.  It gives me good motivation to get into and stay in shape.

The new piano is due to be delivered Monday.  I spent most of today going through my moving boxes looking for my old piano music.  It was in the last box I opened of course, but it was there.  The problem is that my hand strength is woefully bad now so I'll have to spend quite a bit of time on exercises rather than music.  I may be posting here less often anyway.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 05, 2020, 06:45:40 PM
I now have the time and the means for such excursions, but not always the physical abilities obviously.  It gives me good motivation to get into and stay in shape.

The new piano is due to be delivered Monday.  
Well if you're getting in shape by playing the piano better bang the keys like Jerry Lee Lewis
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 05, 2020, 06:52:14 PM
Not long enough yet. 30 more years. Get those bones out of the cold already.
The cold won't drive me out of the great white north but the taxes might.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2020, 07:19:33 PM
On the bright side, I avoided a quarantine...

My wife is in healthcare, and they had a patient come in a few days ago that they learned today was potentially positive for COVID-19 (symptoms + travel to affected countries)... Which would have meant they'd close the office for two weeks, she'd be quarantined, and therefore I'd be quarantined too...

Luckily we got the all-clear early this afternoon...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on March 05, 2020, 07:20:29 PM
Condolences Badge
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2020, 07:02:52 AM
Well if you're getting in shape by playing the piano better bang the keys like Jerry Lee Lewis
Nah, that is just another time soak for me.  Today should be nice enough to do some running, I've been off that due to weather and vacation.  It will be interesting to see how my endurance has faded (it was not great anyway, I could jog a mile, slowly).  I'll be happy to run/walk 1.5 miles on the track today.

The wife has to go to the French consulate for something or other and then she says she's going shopping, do I want to come?

Um, no.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on March 06, 2020, 09:53:23 AM
Nah, that is just another time soak for me.  Today should be nice enough to do some running, I've been off that due to weather and vacation.  It will be interesting to see how my endurance has faded (it was not great anyway, I could jog a mile, slowly).  I'll be happy to run/walk 1.5 miles on the track today.

The wife has to go to the French consulate for something or other and then she says she's going shopping, do I want to come?

Um, no.

Had an accident in my car, so it is in the shop. I decided since I work only 4 miles from my home that I would ride my bike to and from work. Two days of riding and I decided I am too old and out of shape for it, I went and rented a car last night. I keep telling myself that I am going to start exercising, but I don't think it is going to happen. I am an umpire on my football crew, so I don't have to do much running during a game so why get in shape :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 06, 2020, 10:50:14 AM
a 1/4 mile on my elliptical is enough

hopefully get that up to a mile someday 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2020, 11:30:44 AM
I walked up to my broker to deposit a check and then walked back to the park.  I was hurting after half a mile.  I have a lot of work to do.

It's sunny and breezy today.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 07, 2020, 08:50:13 AM
golf course open today!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2020, 08:52:53 AM
Well, the heat pump didn't last.  I was warned  I guess.  The tech said it might last a year or a day.  It's sunny so the place is not too cold.

Anyone know anything about water source heat pumps?

You know these evaporators on the top of taller buildings?  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 07, 2020, 09:12:09 AM
I know the geothermal heat pumps in my office have been a maintenance problem

evaporative condensers are for cooling

that's about my extent of knowledge 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2020, 02:01:24 PM
Large buildings use water sourced heat pumps, and the evaporators on the roof are to cool the water (duh) in summer.  The paces inside have a water sourced heat pump.

Mine oddly enough is working again (I recycled it).  I'm getting some quotes.

Those large towers often associated with nuclear power plants are evaporative cooling towers so they don't dump hot water into rivers.

(https://i.imgur.com/NIm8id7.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MichiFan87 on March 07, 2020, 04:36:30 PM
I hadn't been as concerned as most people about it, but the Corona Virus has apparently affected two people in the town I grew up near, and my grandmother who now lives in an assisted living place near my parents is being quarantined there (no cases inside it but they're just not allowing any visitors and apparently aren't allowing anyone who lives there to leave).

For anyone else who has family / friends in assisted living situations / nursing homes / etc., I hope you have contingency plans figured out....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2020, 04:42:09 PM
The unknown is a concern.  I should be fine I think even if I contract it, which at this point is statistically unlikely.  The delayed onset of symptoms is a concern.


In happier news, my heat pump is back pumping, and my new lens arrived today.  I played with it a bit, it's an 18-400 mm zoom, which sounds impossible to me.  The photos look fine to me, I'm sure someone would find lack of crispness in the edges at some focal lengths.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2020, 09:12:20 AM
Welp.. my cruise line has come up with an option to cancel without penalty. We are supposed to leave in 2 weeks, from Lima to Miami. Now I'm thinking about it. Not sure what to do here.

There is no Mickey Mouse or water park on this line. Lots of older people - we help bring the average down.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2020, 09:50:56 AM
Yeah, I got the same notice from NCL.  However, your airline may not agree.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2020, 10:14:26 AM
American has always been good to me on this stuff, when I book through our credit union. At a minimum, I'll get the refund for the main flight cost ($1200+/-). 

I might lose the money I paid directly to AA for the premium seats, but that's a smaller hit ($300+/-).

Still thinking about it.

Part of the fun for us, being very social, is meeting new people on these cruises. Given what's going on, there may be nobody to meet.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2020, 10:49:11 AM
I'm leaving in a couple hours for a large convention in Minneapolis

not too worried about the virus, but not sure I'd feel the same way about a cruise ship

might be nice to have the ship to yourself, a smaller group than usual

I'd plan to be quarantined on the ship for 30 days after the cruise
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2020, 11:05:56 AM
That last part is the scary one. I can't afford that time, and I think I'd go nuts. 

There are only 650 passengers on these ships, so I'm thinking right now they are probably down to half that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2020, 11:39:11 AM
I'd play it safe, but I'm conservative like that

they could run out of booze while in quarantine
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on March 08, 2020, 12:52:01 PM
Welp.. my cruise line has come up with an option to cancel without penalty. We are supposed to leave in 2 weeks, from Lima to Miami. Now I'm thinking about it. Not sure what to do here.

There is no Mickey Mouse or water park on this line. Lots of older people - we help bring the average down.
Received the same thing yesterday for a cruise on 2 weeks can cancel up to 48 hours before with full credit. At this moment not going to cancel 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2020, 01:39:37 PM
I would be fine stuck on the ship actually if I have Internet and a gym.  I do a lot of reading anyway.  We'll stay with our September plans unless something dramatic changes for the worse.  We went on a long walk today after brunch, it's nice outside, and a lot of people were out and about.  I noticed the Connector was frozen up around noon, probably an accident.  That is I-75/85 through town, it's nearly always a mess.  I can remember when it was three lanes on each side and lacked any acceleration ramps.



(https://i.imgur.com/RdvPZ4S.png)(https://i.imgur.com/fiwtzuS.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2020, 01:41:04 PM
Received the same thing yesterday for a cruise on 2 weeks can cancel up to 48 hours before with full credit. At this moment not going to cancel
Where are you going?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2020, 01:46:46 PM
We stopped in to see a brand new Hampton Inn, it has the lobby on the 20th floor and some very nice views from the outdoor dining area, there is a restaurant by the lobby with a firepit outside, it looked nice, checked the menu.  Rooms start at $175 right now, it just opened.  WE're going to try the bar/restaurant when the weather warms up a bit.  I took some photos with my news lens (18-400 mm, seems pretty nice).

(https://i.imgur.com/jf8C4Se.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 08, 2020, 02:56:23 PM
We stopped in to see a brand new Hampton Inn, it has the lobby on the 20th floor and some very nice views from the outdoor dining area, there is a restaurant by the lobby with a firepit outside, it looked nice, checked the menu.  Rooms start at $175 right now, it just opened.  WE're going to try the bar/restaurant when the weather warms up a bit.  I took some photos with my news lens (18-400 mm, seems pretty nice).

[img width=273.429 height=279]https://i.imgur.com/jf8C4Se.png[/img]
Interesting. One of the defining aspects of the Hampton "brand" relative to other Hilton properties is that it usually lacks a bar or on-site dining except for their free breakfast spread.
Is the restaurant officially part of the hotel (as far as you can tell)?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2020, 03:01:39 PM
It was not separated from the lobby and seating appeared to be where they'd offer breakfast.  I looked over the menu, it looked decent.

Here are some views from the lobby/restaurant/deck area.  This is looking NE towards Buckhead in the distance (about 6 miles).

(https://i.imgur.com/22KvHg9.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2020, 03:04:32 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/bPkVn3q.jpg)

West Midtown, an area full of cranes and development.

(https://i.imgur.com/trf1rcQ.jpg)

Arts Center in foreground, Stone Mountains in distance.  This is shot from the outdoor seating area.

(https://i.imgur.com/aycTj1k.jpg)

Playing with my new lens, Buckhead again at 400 mm focal length.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2020, 03:05:29 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/FhJKGvs.jpg)

Magnolias are blooming and leaves are just starting to sprout.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2020, 03:58:16 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/8EyNqFd.jpg)

So far as I know, no athletic team is called "The Squirrels".  That would be squirrely I suppose.  Rats with tails?  They can make a mess.  This guy was interested in us on our walk probably thinking we had food.  I was having fun with the new lens.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on March 08, 2020, 05:11:13 PM
i like doing stuff like that... glad you liked. ..... by the way, that's Sapele, with purple heart wood- braced by white ash... somewhat symbolic.

i did these two as well- one for a family into horses, kinda obviously, and the other who restores planes and flies them all over the great white north (which is what i call it, but it isn't always 'white'- it's the UP of Michigan where I have property/cabin, and they take care of it for me because i'm rarely there.. this was a 'thanks')...

[img width=500 height=495.98]https://www.drewswoodcraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/osterlund.jpg[/img]

[img width=497.983 height=500]https://www.drewswoodcraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/gervae-1.jpg[/img]

the pony is inset an inch and three quarters deep into a bowl... the plane was a PITA, but... i got close enough i think... the inset is an inch and three quarters and the tip of the tail is flush with the overall piece... i did it from this pic which is his actual bird (a restored military training bird, and i think they flew them as late as Vietnam as spotter/observation birds too) :

[img width=500 height=332.983]https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16836260_10154991181127270_6864772555542831233_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ohc=LuWytVPSwDIAX8s-nIh&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=b230dbe731c8b961fb61bcf467f4d3ac&oe=5EC95C12[/img]
That's beautiful work, Drew.

The airplane appears to be a Piper J-3 Cub, which served--with slight modification--in the U.S. Army as first an O-59 then (starting in 1942) the L-4 "Grasshopper."  The Navy version was the NE.  Its service in the Army was the official beginning of U.S. Army Aviation (as opposed to the Aviation Section of the Signal Corps, the Air Corps, or the U.S. Army Air Forces, the ancestors of the USAF), which is now as you know its own branch.  Per the Font of All Wisdom and Knowledge, "The L-4 was used extensively in World War II for reconnaissance, transporting supplies, artillery spotting duties and medical evacuation of wounded soldiers."  I don't think it was used as a trainer.
It served again in much the same roles in Korea, although I don't think it was used there in a Medevac role, that having been taken over by Bell H-13s of MASH fame.
To the best of my knowledge, it did not serve in Vietnam, having been replaced by the Cessna 170-based L-19/O-1 "Bird Dog," which was in the Air Force and Marines in addition to the Army.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on March 08, 2020, 05:12:53 PM
Not that I have heard.  The French are generally not patriotic outwardly.

Good seafood here, I see seiche at the market, again.  Dorade is quite good, shrimp is not.

Not windy as yet, wife still asleep.
Are they patriotic inwardly?
I think of them as nationalistic, but not necessarily patriotic.  But I've never visited France and have met few native Frenchies.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on March 08, 2020, 05:28:05 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_O-1_Bird_Dog (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_O-1_Bird_Dog)

(https://i.imgur.com/ZgbXM3d.png)
that's the one!!!

i think the color of his is significant- perhaps it was the way the trainers were painted?  he posted pictures on facebook of some sort of rally in Wisconsin for these things, and there must have been a hundred of them- and i'm only slightly exaggerating.  I was giggling that any one of them could have flown away with anyone else's bird and hardly noticed!!!
Yep.  That's an L-19/O-1.  The designation changed in 1962 when the DoD standardized aircraft designations across all the services.  L was for "liaison"; O for "observation."

The Army generally uses orange to indicate aircraft used in a training role.  When I went through flight school, the primary trainer was the TH-55A, painted all-orange.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/JEo29M_ZRiUmNoLmt_vs4tkHBOkkwt1Vo3VRiJ3nxu7fK1IhIbhUd1FOgY3e-x2YoPuHxAbBBwnstPNRuFES6-3JvYO8TXzUgbLDXoDtrPUDqBIAo8l3CWon97MJRTSrfAfh8Q)
And the next thing we learned to fly was the UH-1H Huey, with the cargo/passenger doors painted orange.
[img width=500 height=333.977]https://cdn10.picryl.com/photo/1990/01/01/accompanied-by-an-instructor-an-undergraduate-helicopter-training-student-pilots-f35d7b-1600.jpg[/img]

BUT, just guessing, it could be that the L-19 was painted that way so that it would be visible to aircraft at higher altitudes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on March 08, 2020, 06:39:51 PM
Hmmm.  The Huey isn't showing up.  Is there a limit on how many megapixels can be in one post?

Trying it again.

(https://cdn10.picryl.com/photo/1990/01/01/accompanied-by-an-instructor-an-undergraduate-helicopter-training-student-pilots-f35d7b-1600.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2020, 06:43:19 PM
It's there.  That Bird dog is a slightly modified older Cessna 172, the older ones had landing lights on the wings.  They are easy to fly, even I could do it.

The pilot would be very vulnerable to small arms fire from below.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on March 08, 2020, 07:14:15 PM
It's there.  That Bird dog is a slightly modified older Cessna 172, the older ones had landing lights on the wings.  They are easy to fly, even I could do it.

The pilot would be very vulnerable to small arms fire from below.
Well, the Cessna 172 had tricycle landing gear, whereas the 170 was a tail-dragger, as is the Bird Dog.
OTOH, the Bird Dog has the all-round-vision "canopy," as does the 172 and as the 170 didn't.  But I understand that the Bird Dog was developed from the 170, and Cessna used the all-round-vision concept on the later 152 (the only Cessna I have flown), 172, and 182, which replaced the 150, 170, and 180.
Long ago and far away, in my first aviation assignment (1-17 Cav at Fort Bragg), we got assigned a Cobra-pilot captain who had inter-service-transferred from the Marines.  He was a section leader in the attack helicopter platoon of our air cavalry troop, which was of the old design, commanded by a major, and as big as a current air cavalry squadron, which is commanded by a lieut. col.  He quickly earned a bad rep by being quite obstreperous and by failing to pay any deference to the senior warrant officers (who represent the experience in nearly all Army aviation units).  He treated them as if they were junior NCOs, wanting them to hop to attention whenever he entered the room and such.  So they both hated and laughed at him.  He came to realize that he was not going to make pilot-in-command nor inherit command of the platoon and--I presume--that he didn't like aviation in the Army any more than he had liked things in the Marine Corps.
He bought himself a Cessna 170 and learned how to fly it, but apparently not how to land it in a crosswind, as he ground-looped it and tore up one of its wings.  Last I heard of him he was trying to find a replacement wing and planning to get out of the Army and try his luck in the FBI.

I wonder if the Bird Dogs had any sort of seat armor.  If not, the pilots probably figured out some way of providing protection--maybe by sitting on a flak vest or something similar.  The seats in the OH-58s I flew had armor protection made of--I guess--Kevlar, which protected the back, the bottom, and, with a pivoting panel, the outboard-facing side of the seat.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2020, 07:32:03 PM
Yeah, I forgot about the 170.  Landing in a crosswind is a bit of a "learned behavior".  I was taught to crab initially on approach to get a read on the wind and then to come in with the upwind wing lowered and land on that outboard wheel.  It was fun once I could do it.  I took my check ride in a 152.  I could really handle that little guy and I guess it showed.  The lady checking me out had me land after an hour and let her out.  I figured I had really failed badly or passed, so I asked her "How did I do?" and she said "OK, I reckon.  Park this thing and come back to the FBO for the paperwork."  She had a local aviation fix point named after her.

https://aerosavvy.com/navigation-name-nonsense/ (https://aerosavvy.com/navigation-name-nonsense/)

http://vfrmap.com/?type=vfrc&lat=39.364&lon=-84.522&zoom=10&api_key=763xxE1MJHyhr48DlAP2qQ (http://vfrmap.com/?type=vfrc&lat=39.364&lon=-84.522&zoom=10&api_key=763xxE1MJHyhr48DlAP2qQ)

I had heard stories of 4 hour check rides where they had to refuel.

Somehow in the move my flight bag was lost, along with license and headsets and stuff.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on March 08, 2020, 09:01:14 PM
Which intersection was named for your check pilot?  I see JADRO, NERVE, and LOVEY with a quick scan.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2020, 10:11:54 PM
None of those, I don't even remember now.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2020, 10:17:11 PM
Blue Sky Flight Training has:
  a FAA certified Designated Flight Examiner on staff!
Contact: Margot Brooks, CFII, MEI, DE



Margot Brooks.  I think the nav was MARGO.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on March 08, 2020, 10:30:43 PM
Cool!

In the tactical part of Army Aviation, we almost never used those intersections for VFR flight.  Really, we didn't use VFR Sectional Maps very often--mostly 1:50,000 tactical maps.  When we did go "cross-country," we'd use VFR Sectionals, but we weren't often flying "Victor Airways" (e.g., V-97 on the sectional you posted).  We generally set up our own visual checkpoints and used pilotage/dead reckoning to fly from one to the next.

Our main occasion to use intersections was when we had our annual IFR checkrides, and then only if we took them in the Huey simulator.  If we flew them in the OH-58 we couldn't use intersections because--IIRC--they are established by intersecting radials from VOR stations, and OH-58s didn't have a VOR nav radio, only an Automatic Direction Finder (ADF), which would pick up Non-Directional Beacons (NDBs).

So the OH-58 wasn't rated for IFR flight, and you definitely didn't want to go inadvertent-IMC.  That prospect was a scary one, especially if you were flying single-pilot.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2020, 10:45:56 PM
Yeah, I didn't use them, but was aware when some other pilot would announce "Over MARGO" where they were.  At times I'd be doing touch and gos and a Cessna Citation would call in and I'd clear the area and let them have the airport.  WE had VOR and ADF, and this was before GPS was in wide use.  

I was showing my son how to work VOR when the engine sputtered and then quit on me.  Soy bean field.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on March 08, 2020, 11:09:51 PM
Good for soy beans!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 09, 2020, 01:10:37 AM
I'd plan to be quarantined on the ship for 30 days after the cruise
Its called drying out
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2020, 08:23:33 AM
We don't get the beverage package on cruises.  It sounds like a deal, but it really really isn't.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 09, 2020, 08:43:59 AM
It is on our preferred cruise line. $15.99/day for unlimited (almost) everything is a very good deal.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 09, 2020, 09:04:18 AM
We don't get the beverage package on cruises.  It sounds like a deal, but it really really isn't.
It's generally a deal for me.  It's also possible I drink too much on cruises... :)

Right now the cruise lines are offering extra enticements for obvious reasons.  I saw a flyer for Norwegian where they're offering FREE open bar to all passengers on all destinations in all cabins.   
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 09, 2020, 09:05:10 AM
It's generally a deal for me.  It's also possible I drink too much on cruises... :)

Right now the cruise lines are offering extra enticements for obvious reasons.  I saw a flyer for Norwegian where they're offering FREE open bar to all passengers on all destinations in all cabins. 
Is that really possible?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 09, 2020, 09:06:52 AM
Is that really possible?
Ha!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 09, 2020, 11:17:22 AM
I don't have to board a large boat to drink too much
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2020, 12:03:48 PM
I guess we're weird to go on a cruise and not drink, given we are NOT teetotalers normally.  We also use the gym.

The piano was delivered this AM.  My left hand in particular is really weak, it was starting to cramp up, and I can't play much at all now.  Take some patience.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 09, 2020, 12:53:04 PM
sounds like great therapy for the left hand
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 09, 2020, 01:10:49 PM
sounds like great therapy for the left hand
This is why I am sure to switch my beer-holding hand regularly, don't want any atrophy just because I favored holding my beer with one hand over the other.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 09, 2020, 01:40:28 PM
Did lamb burgers and roasted butternut squash on Saturday.

I normally don't mix things into my usual burger blends (opting for seasoning on the surface and burger toppings to do the rest), but for this I minced up some kalamata olives and some red onion and put them into the patties. I then hit both sides with some John Henry's greek seasoning, and grilled them.

The wife made tzatziki and the butternut squash, and we served with a little more red onion, tomato, and spinach.

It wasn't the best picture, but the meal came out wonderfully.


(https://i.imgur.com/OHdJBiN.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 09, 2020, 01:44:31 PM
I think I've mentioned it on this site; my wife has a poultry allergy. Oddly the egg portion of it (which affected her as a child) is no longer an issue, but any grown bird protein will cause her major issues. Thankfully nothing life-threatening, but I don't want to hold her hair back for 5 hours, which is what it would come down to.

Now, normally that's not a problem. While chicken is in a LOT of things, and it cuts out many restaurant soup dishes made with chicken stock, I generally find that chicken is used as a protein in a lot of recipes because it's bland [particularly white meat] and because it's cheap. And vegetable stock is an excellent substitute for chicken stock in soup, risotto, etc.

So missing out on chicken really isn't missing much. Except, of course, for fried chicken. Fried chicken is its own little bit of heaven, and she has never had it.

So I made it for her! Everything about the method, the breading, the frying, etc was exactly as one would do for fried chicken, except the chicken. I used 1.5" thick medallions of pork tenderloin instead. Recipe was Serious Eats Southern Fried Chicken (https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2015/07/the-food-lab-southern-fried-chicken-recipe.html).

And it worked! What I ended up with was capturing the essence of what makes fried chicken wonderful, but without the use of any bird. It wasn't a perfect attempt (the pork itself bordered on overcooked), yet it was still freakin' delicious. Definitely going to be made again.

Pork tenderloin is more akin to the dark meat of the fried chicken, of course... But I prefer the dark meat pieces anyway.




(https://i.imgur.com/63LPfrP.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/g1afFX3.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 09, 2020, 01:47:47 PM
This is why I am sure to switch my beer-holding hand regularly, don't want any atrophy just because I favored holding my beer with one hand over the other.
Yeah, I try to work in the 16oz cans instead of the 12oz quite a bit too... Sometimes adding weight over reps will help build the muscle. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2020, 02:50:43 PM
https://atlanta.curbed.com/2020/3/9/21171655/midtown-atlanta-visitor-stats-development-hotels (https://atlanta.curbed.com/2020/3/9/21171655/midtown-atlanta-visitor-stats-development-hotels)

 Surge in Midtown visitors underscores subdistrict’s explosive growth
1 (https://atlanta.curbed.com/2020/3/9/21171655/midtown-atlanta-visitor-stats-development-hotels#comments)


An estimated seven million people ventured through the area in 2019—and half went to Piedmont Park

Don't y'all all come at once please.  You might lost a kidney.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 09, 2020, 03:59:37 PM
Did lamb burgers and roasted butternut squash on Saturday.

I normally don't mix things into my usual burger blends (opting for seasoning on the surface and burger toppings to do the rest), but for this I minced up some kalamata olives and some red onion and put them into the patties. I then hit both sides with some John Henry's greek seasoning, and grilled them.

The wife made tzatziki and the butternut squash, and we served with a little more red onion, tomato, and spinach.

It wasn't the best picture, but the meal came out wonderfully.



when I wear out my welcome in utee's neighborhood, I'm moving close to your backyard
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 09, 2020, 04:01:32 PM
was lucky enough to visit my favorite place in Minneapolis last night, the Butcher and the Boar

best beef rib in the country

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 09, 2020, 04:05:44 PM
If we're making predictions, I'll guess the Dow hits ~24K before it hits a new high.

Secondary guess. If it falls to 22K, QE5 is announced and we're off to the races again.
nailed it


didn't see the oil market being a major cause
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 09, 2020, 04:43:50 PM
Yeah, I try to work in the 16oz cans instead of the 12oz quite a bit too... Sometimes adding weight over reps will help build the muscle.
Excellent point.  You sound like a pro! :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 09, 2020, 04:44:35 PM
was lucky enough to visit my favorite place in Minneapolis last night, the Butcher and the Boar

best beef rib in the country


You've clearly never had the beef rib at Franklin.

Or, my house.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 09, 2020, 04:59:21 PM
when I wear out my welcome in utee's neighborhood, I'm moving close to your backyard
With real estate prices out here, I might just end up renting you space in my backyard to pitch a tent!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2020, 05:22:49 PM
I chuckle at the various "Best of" lists, like best BBQ in the country.  First, it's taste and personal, and second, there are a zillion places and no person can have tried them all.

You'd be busy trying to do one large city, and even then, it's your opinion.  Best steak, best seafood, best French, whatever, personal taste.

And then there is TripAdvisor et al. which actually has ratings on McDonald's in small towns, and I have seen one ranked like 8th among 28 restaurants, or Cracker Barrel is the top rated place in a smaller town.  I'm easily amused.

Did I mention how much I hate wine ratings?

Incidentally, Kirkland here has a Napa Oakville cab for $20 that is superb.  It's not their base Napa cab.  It needs a bit of time to open up.  No idea where they sourced it.

I'm getting a case.  Don't tell the wife.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 09, 2020, 07:39:02 PM
With real estate prices out here, I might just end up renting you space in my backyard to pitch a tent!
Tent?how about the doghouse,I mean when your not occupying it  :singing:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 09, 2020, 07:42:42 PM
 It's also possible I drink too much on cruises... :)

Crazy Talk!!! Corona is the disease Tito's is the Cure
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 09, 2020, 07:44:48 PM
This is why I am sure to switch my beer-holding hand regularly, don't want any atrophy just because I favored holding my beer with one hand over the other.
You're always thinking,Butch
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 09, 2020, 07:47:18 PM
Yeah, I try to work in the 16oz cans instead of the 12oz quite a bit too... Sometimes adding weight over reps will help build the muscle.
That's true,now quit with pics - you're rubbing it in at this point.That Lamb Burger meal,dayum - i wouldn't leave the plate
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 10, 2020, 12:11:25 AM
I always love reading through a good Mr. N catch-up session! 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 10, 2020, 12:20:20 AM
So, my company just reported that we had an employee test positive for COVID-19.  He was here in Austin, but left to go home to India on 2/28.  He stopped off in NYC on 2/29 and flew through Dubai at some point, and then reported to work in India for a couple of days before feeling ill, going to the doc, getting tested for COVID19, and coming up positive.  While here in the Austin area, he worked and interacted with a handful of his team members, at the same campus where I office.

I work from home primarily and rarely go into the office, it's highly unlikely I would have come into contact with him, or anyone else he came into contact with.

But the real point here, is that my company has decided to move to work-from-home for ALL employees that can, thru 3/24.  Some teams, primarily hardware engineers, won't be able to do that.  The equipment they're designing/testing is all in labs that are on our campuses.  But the rest of us in operational or finance or support roles, can, and must, work from home.

And I'll say that I believe that 3/24 date is just a punt.  We have Spring Break for all Austin-area schools next week, and a huge number of employees would be out of office anyway.  In reality, I suspect this is a first step at a soft quarantine that will last until mid-April at least.  And this won't just be happening in Austin, and it won't just be happening at my company.  This is going to become widespread in the very near future.

I don't know if I missed discussion of COVID-19 in other threads on this Forum?  But I think it warrants some discussion and might even warrant its own thread.

Y'all stay safe out there.  It's crawfish season, so be sure to wash your hands many times a day, as if you've just peeled and eaten six dozen spicy Cajun crawfish, and now you must remove your contact lenses.  I'm no alarmist or prepper of doomsdayist advocate, but this stuff is serious and I'm not sure we, as a nation, are quite ready enough for it.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2020, 07:02:48 AM
My hope is COVID-19 will be nipped by warmer weather, though that is just a hope.  There is so much unknown about it right now.

The stock market futures are way up this morning, they are behaving "oddly" to me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2020, 07:24:48 AM
My hope is COVID-19 will be nipped by warmer weather, though that is just a hope.  There is so much unknown about it right now.

The stock market futures are way up this morning, they are behaving "oddly" to me.
That's what happens when the markets are driven by fear.


Russia cannot sustain these prices, and the Arabs are in even worse shape if it continues beyond a very short term. This is all about Putin screwing with Trump. The mediots are in full buy-in on this garbage. Just dig beyond the front page.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2020, 07:31:47 AM
Fear and greed, greed seems dominant this morning.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2020, 07:47:47 AM
Fear hurts.

Greed kills.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 10, 2020, 07:56:58 AM
As someone that primarily works from home, this Covid-19 thing is not much of a concern for me. And based upon what I am hearing about it, I don't believe that it is any worse than the flu and maybe not quite as bad. 

I'm more worried about the panic in the markets and the overreactions to the virus. And with Saudi Arabia flooding the markets with oil and driving prices down, that has had more of an impact on the market yesterday than the virus has. But between Saudi Arabia and Russia, one or both of them will blink sooner or later and restore sanity to the markets. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 10, 2020, 08:00:31 AM
Yeah I'm a little surprised that some of the smarter people I know are buying into the problems with the markets.


Even if COVID19 were to have a death rate of something like 6% across the general population and not just octogenarians (who are beyond the age of contributing to the workforce in any statistically meaningful way), there is still no reason to believe it will affect domestic output for any of the countries where it currently resides.

The flipside is, will it adversely affect consumption?  Right now, the evidence suggests the opposite-- employers are actually starting to consume MORE, especially in the tech, bank, and government  sectors, in efforts to equip their workforces with better capability to work-from-home.  Granted, that's in the near term, next 3-18 months or so, but there's still nothing to suggest major economic issues with either global production, or consumption, in the long term.

(edited after Northern Buckeye focused on oil-- I'm talking primarily about future global production above, not the oil price market drivers)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2020, 08:12:39 AM
Uncertainty aboundeth, duh, and I'm not sure about that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2020, 08:22:57 AM
Just a blip on the radar.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2020, 08:28:30 AM
Yeah I'm a little surprised that some of the smarter people I know are buying into the problems with the markets.


Even if COVID19 were to have a death rate of something like 6% across the general population and not just octogenarians (who are beyond the age of contributing to the workforce in any statistically meaningful way), there is still no reason to believe it will affect domestic output for any of the countries where it currently resides.

The flipside is, will it adversely affect consumption?  Right now, the evidence suggests the opposite-- employers are actually starting to consume MORE, especially in the tech, bank, and government  sectors, in efforts to equip their workforces with better capability to work-from-home.  Granted, that's in the near term, next 3-18 months or so, but there's still nothing to suggest major economic issues with either global production, or consumption, in the long term.

(edited after Northern Buckeye focused on oil-- I'm talking primarily about future global production above, not the oil price market drivers)


That's too high. The death rate will come WAY down as this thing spreads. I realize you posed a hypothetical, but I'm just doing a public service in case anyone missed the "even if" part of your post.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2020, 08:48:16 AM
The 1918-19 flu infected a third of the global population, estimated 500 million, and killed 50 million, ten percent, many of them in their 20s and 30s.

It was very unusual of course, fortunately.  Hard to imagine that today, though I imagine our recovery rates would be better.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: iahawk15 on March 10, 2020, 08:53:12 AM

The stock market futures are way up this morning, they are behaving "oddly" to me.
I disagree. A bounce after a 2000 pt down move was to be expected.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2020, 08:59:00 AM
I disagree. A bounce after a 2000 pt down move was to be expected.
Agree, but I could also see a major uptick to open followed by another selloff by those looking to make a quick recovery.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2020, 09:04:25 AM
I disagree. A bounce after a 2000 pt down move was to be expected.
I'm not thinking about the events of a single morning.  I'm talking about the recent price actions over the past month.  Dead cats have been bouncing with frequency.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: iahawk15 on March 10, 2020, 09:05:07 AM
Agree, but I could also see a major uptick to open followed by another selloff by those looking to make a quick recovery.
Not only could, I think it will. A bounce was inevitable, but I don't expect it to last.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: iahawk15 on March 10, 2020, 09:14:43 AM
I'm not thinking about the events of a single morning.  I'm talking about the recent price actions over the past month.  Dead cats have been bouncing with frequency.
I would say that's been somewhat predictable as well. The market rolling over was overdue, and a panic event was needed to act as the needle. Since then, it's been very predictable. Bounce, flush lower, bounce.

I said upthread the bottom wasn't in, and DJI was going to 24K. We hit that yesterday.

I expect a lot of whipsawing over the next few weeks, but I think Q1 earnings season is going to be painful. If so, I expect more downside.

There's a couple more levels of support on the way down but DJI at ~20,500 is a critical level.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2020, 09:20:14 AM
I don't think it will drop to that. Fundamentally it is in good shape. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2020, 09:22:08 AM
Well, if this market was something I could have predicted, I would have been buying and selling options like crazy and making a zillion bucks.

Some things of course are "predictable" in hindsight.  And I know I can't predict markets.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: iahawk15 on March 10, 2020, 09:24:54 AM
Oops, I misspoke. 21,700 is the 2018 low pivot and the critical level, not 20,500. If we approach that, major government intervention is coming (if not before).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: iahawk15 on March 10, 2020, 09:35:24 AM
Well, if this market was something I could have predicted, I would have been buying and selling options like crazy and making a zillion bucks.

Some things of course are "predictable" in hindsight.  And I know I can't predict markets.


That's fine. I've been lightly following the stock market thread in the other forum, but chose not to get involved. MCWTerps speaks a lot of truth there.

What it comes down to is two philosophies. Passive investors and active traders. Neither one is the "right" way to do it. There's money to be made for people who have the time, ability, and desire to learn how the markets move. For others, the long game works best.

I certainly haven't been making a zillion bucks, but I am making money. Winning traders work in probabilities, not absolutes. My strategy is aim small, miss small.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2020, 09:54:42 AM
I have known some "active traders" who would brag about the killing they were making and then a year or so later went silent on the topic and didn't want to talk about it.

We had a guy at work who was flipping houses and making a bundle, he said, circa 1999.

I figure if that many folks could time markets, no one could do it.  The high level money managers who do it for a living don't seem to be very good at it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: iahawk15 on March 10, 2020, 10:01:37 AM
I have known some "active traders" who would brag about the killing they were making and then a year or so later went silent on the topic and didn't want to talk about it.
Sounds like greedy people who didn't know how to manage their money.

I've known some good-to-damn-good poker players over the years. The ones that still play never walked into a game w/100% of their bankroll.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2020, 10:06:12 AM
Why do mutual funds in general underperform the broader markets (or related sector ETFs)?

Obviously, not every trading day with a large drop is necessarily followed with a large pop the next morning.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: iahawk15 on March 10, 2020, 10:10:48 AM

Why do mutual funds in general underperform the broader markets (or related sector ETFs)?

Obviously, not every trading day with a large drop is necessarily followed with a large pop the next morning.


I don't study mutual funds because I don't invest in them.

Passive investors and "good" active traders (seems like I have to continually qualify that) are using the same basic strategy; they trade with the trend. The only difference is the time frame.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2020, 10:18:02 AM
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/more-evidence-that-passive-fund-management-beats-active-2019-09-12 (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/more-evidence-that-passive-fund-management-beats-active-2019-09-12)

It's generally known that active funds overall underperform passive funds over a decade time frame.  Thus, professional money managers broadly don't beat the market.

Maybe this just means a lot of MF managers are not very good and a few are.

The Morningstar Active/Passive Barometer is a semiannual report that measures the performance of U.S. active funds against passive peers in their respective Morningstar categories. The report showed that active funds outperformed passive funds in several categories during 2017, but the June report (https://www.morningstar.com/content/dam/marketing/shared/pdfs/Research/Active_Passive_Barometer_2018_08.pdf?cid=EMQ_) said this trend changed: "Just 36% of active managers categorized in one of the nine segments of the U.S. Morningstar Style Box both survived and outperformed their average passive peer over the 12 months through June 2018. In 2017, 43% of active managers achieved this feat."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2020, 10:33:06 AM
That's fine. I've been lightly following the stock market thread in the other forum, but chose not to get involved. MCWTerps speaks a lot of truth there.

What it comes down to is two philosophies. Passive investors and active traders. Neither one is the "right" way to do it. There's money to be made for people who have the time, ability, and desire to learn how the markets move. For others, the long game works best.

I certainly haven't been making a zillion bucks, but I am making money. Winning traders work in probabilities, not absolutes. My strategy is aim small, miss small.
It depends what you believe in. I don't believe in anything that doesn't involve the long play. My work and play schedules are too busy to even think about anything else. If I come across an opportunity, I'll make a call to my guy.

(I admittedly did this morning on a couple of stocks I trust, in healthcare. I value the companies so I think I got a good deal, regardless of what happens over the next month or two. I'm holding.)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 10, 2020, 10:40:40 AM
So, my company just reported that we had an employee test positive for COVID-19.  He was here in Austin, but left to go home to India on 2/28.  He stopped off in NYC on 2/29 and flew through Dubai at some point, and then reported to work in India for a couple of days before feeling ill, going to the doc, getting tested for COVID19, and coming up positive.  While here in the Austin area, he worked and interacted with a handful of his team members, at the same campus where I office.

I work from home primarily and rarely go into the office, it's highly unlikely I would have come into contact with him, or anyone else he came into contact with.

But the real point here, is that my company has decided to move to work-from-home for ALL employees that can, thru 3/24.  Some teams, primarily hardware engineers, won't be able to do that.  The equipment they're designing/testing is all in labs that are on our campuses.  But the rest of us in operational or finance or support roles, can, and must, work from home.
We're seeing a lot of the same, although I believe at this time we haven't had any employee [even worldwide] test positive. We instituted travel bans for international, restricted company meetings over a certain size, and moved certain meetings which would normally require people to fly in to one site to be remote. I might have a meeting coming up the first week of April in Colorado, and it remains to be seen whether that will be changed to be remote instead--I know my wife doesn't want me to go. 

Like you, I work from home primarily now (went from about 30-40% work from home to 90% once we got the puppy). For my role that's normal; it's a field role and most of my peers work from home as they don't live near an office. I just happen to be near a major office so I have a desk there. But just this past week they've been making sure that people in other roles have been validating all of their work-from-home capability (connectivity, VPN, etc) in case they get the order to start. 

Personally I think some of the panic is a bit overblown. But that said, we're currently at 730 cases tested positive in the US and 26 deaths. That's 3.6%, and given that probably 500+ of those positive tests have occurred in the last 96 hours, I would expect the death rate just amongst those 730 patients to climb as some of those 730 won't recover. Granted, I'm sure there are some unreported cases where [younger, healthier] people are either having mild symptoms and not getting checked out, or might even be entirely asymptomatic. As @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) says, that 3.6% rate is only based upon known positive tested patients, and clearly doesn't include everyone at this point. But it's still higher than we'd like to see. 

And of course, people stockpiling their bunkers are buying Costco, Target, Walmart etc out of toilet paper, water, cleaning supplies, etc. It's madness.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2020, 10:40:44 AM
I bought some XLE this morning, same kind of thinking.  I appreciate that energy can go lower from here of course, but I'd guess it'll be OK in five years.

I saw Ohio State has cancelled classes for this entire month.  It's impossible for me to know whether this is an over reaction or being prudent and sensible.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: iahawk15 on March 10, 2020, 10:42:09 AM
It depends what you believe in. I don't believe in anything that doesn't involve the long play. My work and play schedules are too busy to even think about anything else. If I come across an opportunity, I'll make a call to my guy.

(I admittedly did this morning on a couple of stocks I trust, in healthcare. I value the companies so I think I got a good deal, regardless of what happens over the next month or two. I'm holding.)
I think you completely agreed with my second paragraph. When I get annoyed, is one style of investor acts like the other style is wrong. It appears active investors are speaking out of arrogance toward passive investors, and passive investors are speaking out of ignorance to what active trading is.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2020, 10:42:51 AM
Incidentally, we went to Costco three times in the past 5 days here and they have ample supplies, here, of everything.  I had ordered some photo books and also eyeglasses so we were in and out several times.  It was crowded, but it pretty much always is.  I don't think Atlanta is experiencing outages (yet).  Kroger also had plenty of whatever.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2020, 10:44:59 AM
https://www.npr.org/2020/03/09/813750481/more-than-20-colleges-cancel-in-person-classes-in-response-to-coronavirus (https://www.npr.org/2020/03/09/813750481/more-than-20-colleges-cancel-in-person-classes-in-response-to-coronavirus)

More than 40 U.S. colleges have canceled in-person classes because of the coronavirus as of Tuesday morning. The colleges enroll a total of more than 600,000 students and include Columbia University, Princeton University, Rice University, Stanford University, Hofstra University and the University of Southern California, plus the University of Washington and a clutch of community colleges in Washington state.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 10, 2020, 10:45:26 AM
Why do mutual funds in general underperform the broader markets (or related sector ETFs)?

Obviously, not every trading day with a large drop is necessarily followed with a large pop the next morning.
My understanding is that a lot of this is fees. A typical index fund carries an expense ratio of ~0.2%. A typical mutual fund is closer to 2%. So in order to be net positive for the investor, the mutual fund not only has to outperform the index fund, it has to significantly outperform the index fund.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2020, 11:01:41 AM
I think you completely agreed with my second paragraph. When I get annoyed, is one style of investor acts like the other style is wrong. It appears active investors are speaking out of arrogance toward passive investors, and passive investors are speaking out of ignorance to what active trading is.
Yep, no doubt. What has worked for me is not for everyone. I don't pretend that to be the case. But, investors like me (or seemed like me) are also panicking this week and hurting the markets.

One thing I do know for sure is that no matter your style, the markets are not for the timid.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2020, 11:22:52 AM
I think investing can be for the timid, if it's investing and not trading.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2020, 11:34:41 AM
DJIA just went red.  This could be another dead cat.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2020, 11:39:27 AM
I disagree. A bounce after a 2000 pt down move was to be expected.
The bounce was rather short lived, but of course it could come back.  DJIA down 150.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: iahawk15 on March 10, 2020, 11:45:17 AM
The bounce was rather short lived, but of course it could come back.  DJIA down 150.


Yep, I said we're going lower in the near-term.

Intraday? I went long 5 mins ago, but will dump if SPY breaks below 273.30.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2020, 11:46:05 AM
DJIA just went red.  This could be another dead cat.
Very predictable. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2020, 12:03:45 PM
Now the DJIA is up[ 250.  If traders can predict this movement, I'm impressed indeed.  I can't.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: iahawk15 on March 10, 2020, 12:04:00 PM
Yep, I said we're going lower in the near-term.

Intraday? I went long 5 mins ago, but will dump if SPY breaks below 273.30.
And closed it out for a small profit when SPY touched the 20 dma (5 min chart). Sitting in 96% cash right now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2020, 12:12:46 PM
Unload your cash and buy BAX. Check back on it in 10 years.

Thank you.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2020, 12:13:02 PM
Whoever writes these headlines for the various web sites is busy today, up down up down up down.... +323.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: iahawk15 on March 10, 2020, 12:18:07 PM
Unload your cash and buy BAX. Check back on it in 10 years.

Thank you.
I'm good for now, continuing to make small bets off support / resistance levels while this market chops around. When volatility flattens out, or QE5 is announced, I'll get very long and only continue to actively trade ~10% of my portfolio.

Anyway, further discussion seems fruitless, so I'm checking out.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2020, 12:31:36 PM
Probably wise. I'm checked out too. I won't be looking at anything for the rest of today. Need to get some work done.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on March 10, 2020, 02:04:37 PM
We're seeing a lot of the same, although I believe at this time we haven't had any employee [even worldwide] test positive. We instituted travel bans for international, restricted company meetings over a certain size, and moved certain meetings which would normally require people to fly in to one site to be remote. I might have a meeting coming up the first week of April in Colorado, and it remains to be seen whether that will be changed to be remote instead--I know my wife doesn't want me to go.

Like you, I work from home primarily now (went from about 30-40% work from home to 90% once we got the puppy). For my role that's normal; it's a field role and most of my peers work from home as they don't live near an office. I just happen to be near a major office so I have a desk there. But just this past week they've been making sure that people in other roles have been validating all of their work-from-home capability (connectivity, VPN, etc) in case they get the order to start.

Personally I think some of the panic is a bit overblown. But that said, we're currently at 730 cases tested positive in the US and 26 deaths. That's 3.6%, and given that probably 500+ of those positive tests have occurred in the last 96 hours, I would expect the death rate just amongst those 730 patients to climb as some of those 730 won't recover. Granted, I'm sure there are some unreported cases where [younger, healthier] people are either having mild symptoms and not getting checked out, or might even be entirely asymptomatic. As @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) says, that 3.6% rate is only based upon known positive tested patients, and clearly doesn't include everyone at this point. But it's still higher than we'd like to see.

And of course, people stockpiling their bunkers are buying Costco, Target, Walmart etc out of toilet paper, water, cleaning supplies, etc. It's madness.
The deaths are almost exclusively over 80yo and in bad health

This is a chart that was put out by WHO 

(https://www.fisherinvestments.com/-/media/Fisher/MarketMinder/0/3/03062020-commentary-exhibit-1.ashx?la=en-US&hash=FD89A06C04B9F359E785660AAF426C13D0664379)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2020, 02:11:11 PM
I won't claim those figures are "wrong" exactly, but I don't trust them much either because of reporting errors.  Some folks may not have been tested for COVIC-19 and still be added to some list.  Reporting from places like Iran strike me as not very reliable.  I think it clear that older folks are hit harder, just as they are with flu.  And apparently some folks have contracted the illness and had no symptoms, though how anyone would know that without broad scale testing I have no idea.  If I get slightly ill I'm not going to get tested for it.

The specific percentages however strike me as very possibly wrong.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 10, 2020, 02:46:24 PM
I won't claim those figures are "wrong" exactly, but I don't trust them much either because of reporting errors.  Some folks may not have been tested for COVIC-19 and still be added to some list.  Reporting from places like Iran strike me as not very reliable.  I think it clear that older folks are hit harder, just as they are with flu.  And apparently some folks have contracted the illness and had no symptoms, though how anyone would know that without broad scale testing I have no idea.  If I get slightly ill I'm not going to get tested for it.

The specific percentages however strike me as very possibly wrong.
Yeah, I think this is one of those cases where I don't trust the percentages exactly, but that I think the broad picture they paint is accurate. I.e. that it is FAR disproportionately fatal as you increase in age. That is one way that it differs from the flu--the flu tends to hit the very young as well as the very old. COVID-19 appears to spare the very young as far as we can tell so far.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2020, 03:20:59 PM
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/early-mortality-rates-covid-19-misleading-experts/story?id=69477312 (https://abcnews.go.com/Health/early-mortality-rates-covid-19-misleading-experts/story?id=69477312)

I think broad trends are probably about right, as you note, but I don't trust any specific statistics at this point.  If indeed 80% of cases involve mild symptoms, people would be sick and have no clue they were infected, and not get tested of course, nor added to any database.  They could be infectious carriers.

The elderly nearly always suffer more from respiratory ailments for obvious reasons.  Whether this one is more biased against them is TBD, I suspect.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on March 10, 2020, 03:30:51 PM
I won't claim those figures are "wrong" exactly, but I don't trust them much either because of reporting errors.  Some folks may not have been tested for COVIC-19 and still be added to some list.  Reporting from places like Iran strike me as not very reliable.  I think it clear that older folks are hit harder, just as they are with flu.  And apparently some folks have contracted the illness and had no symptoms, though how anyone would know that without broad scale testing I have no idea.  If I get slightly ill I'm not going to get tested for it.

The specific percentages however strike me as very possibly wrong.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/early-mortality-rates-covid-19-misleading-experts/story?id=69477312 (https://abcnews.go.com/Health/early-mortality-rates-covid-19-misleading-experts/story?id=69477312)

I think broad trends are probably about right, as you note, but I don't trust any specific statistics at this point.  If indeed 80% of cases involve mild symptoms, people would be sick and have no clue they were infected, and not get tested of course, nor added to any database.  They could be infectious carriers.

The elderly nearly always suffer more from respiratory ailments for obvious reasons.  Whether this one is more biased against them is TBD, I suspect.
Ok, you dismiss the WHO stats that they published, but do you accept their the sky is falling proclamations without any statistics?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2020, 03:32:21 PM
Which "sky is falling proclamations" did I accept here?

I'm lost.  I merely note that early in as we are, hard statistics are going to be hard to generate reliably.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on March 10, 2020, 03:39:58 PM
Which "sky is falling proclamations" did I accept here?

I'm lost.  I merely note that early in as we are, hard statistics are going to be hard to generate reliably.

That was just a question. I know we are both a little long in the tooth and have seen a large number of these scares over the years. 

I personally tend to dismiss out of hand most of what I call sensational reporting concerning these types of things. The earliest one I remember is the 1976 Swine Flu scare. None of them have amounted to much of anything through the years (at least when compared to how it was reported).  

So when you dismissed my use of the WHO stats to demonstrate the there really isn't any "great" danger unless you are old (80+) and particularly if you are already infirm, I was curious if you were buying into what I would call hysteria. 

Just for the record I am not discounting that people have died. That is a tragedy, but none of what I have seen has brought me to where need to close campuses, cancel sporting events. etc. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2020, 03:45:33 PM
Um, you completely misread my meaning here.

And I did not embrace any sky is falling references nor did I imply that they elderly are not more in danger.  My POINT is that I don't trust statistics at this point.  The broad trends suggested could well be accurate, but not the precise figures offered.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2020, 03:46:55 PM
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/early-mortality-rates-covid-19-misleading-experts/story?id=69477312 (https://abcnews.go.com/Health/early-mortality-rates-covid-19-misleading-experts/story?id=69477312)

I think broad trends are probably about right, as you note,
but I don't trust any specific statistics at this point.  If indeed 80% of cases involve mild symptoms, people would be sick and have no clue they were infected, and not get tested of course, nor added to any database.  They could be infectious carriers.

The elderly nearly always suffer more from respiratory ailments for obvious reasons.  Whether this one is more biased against them is TBD, I suspect.
This was my second post on the topic, with emphasis added.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2020, 03:48:47 PM
The deaths are almost exclusively over 80yo and in bad health

This is a chart that was put out by WHO

(https://www.fisherinvestments.com/-/media/Fisher/MarketMinder/0/3/03062020-commentary-exhibit-1.ashx?la=en-US&hash=FD89A06C04B9F359E785660AAF426C13D0664379)

And note that this chart shows percentages with significant figures down to the hundredths of a percent (though they all are magically zeros in that place).  That point about the significant figures is just one indication this isn't a reliable set of figures.

So, I don't believe these statistics, though the broad trend is probably about right.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 10, 2020, 03:49:47 PM
I also don't believe a lick of what is coming out of China so, given that our current global data file is made up mostly of Chinese information, it's hard to believe we really know much of anything.  Data from South Korea, and Europe, is far more reliable.  That is certainly my opinion, others may differ.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2020, 04:06:40 PM
So, the DJIA oscillated rather dramatically today, which I take as evidence for its being "unsettled" and not entirely rational (if ever it is).

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2020, 04:08:56 PM
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1043366/novel-coronavirus-2019ncov-cases-worldwide-by-country/ (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1043366/novel-coronavirus-2019ncov-cases-worldwide-by-country/)

So, according to reporting, 81,000 out of 110,000 cases confirmed are in China.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 10, 2020, 05:53:55 PM
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1043366/novel-coronavirus-2019ncov-cases-worldwide-by-country/ (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1043366/novel-coronavirus-2019ncov-cases-worldwide-by-country/)

So, according to reporting, 81,000 out of 110,000 cases confirmed are in China. 
Yup, that's what the current reporting says.

Here's another dashboard view with a heat map view by geo, put together by Johns Hopkins U:

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

 (https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2020, 06:09:12 PM
https://www.cbs46.com/news/georgia-daycare-worker-tests-positive-for-covid/article_21e67b0e-6266-11ea-816b-e321f920c1c8.html (https://www.cbs46.com/news/georgia-daycare-worker-tests-positive-for-covid/article_21e67b0e-6266-11ea-816b-e321f920c1c8.html)

I think it's "out" now and spreading fast.  Community spread.  I'd guess some of us here may get it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 10, 2020, 06:22:17 PM
I think it's been "out" for a while and we're just starting to get awareness to the point that people are realizing it's not a common cold, or the flu, or some other ailment with similar symptoms.  We just don't really see the large hospitalizations and deaths yet, unless/until it hits a pocket of elderly/compromised individuals as it has in the Seattle area.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 10, 2020, 06:51:55 PM
So when you dismissed my use of the WHO stats to demonstrate the there really isn't any "great" danger unless you are old (80+) and particularly if you are already infirm, I was curious if you were buying into what I would call hysteria.
I was the other person who questioned the statistics, so I'll also chime in. 

I was not in any way *dismissing* the WHO stats. I think we've seen in practice, here in the US, that the basic lesson of that chart is true -- the elderly are at MUCH higher risk of mortality from COVID-19 than the bulk of the population. 

What I'm saying is that I don't necessarily have any faith that the specific percentages themselves are accurate. For example, with the flu we know enough about it to estimate the total number of cases based on those cases serious enough to be reported, require hospitalization, or be fatal. We don't know NEAR enough about COVID-19 yet to make those estimations. 

Thus, my thought is that COVID-19 is probably lower mortality than the reported statistics (due to unreported cases), and that there isn't really any "great" danger unless you are older or have preexisting respiratory or other health issues. No argument on that matter.

As such, I was talking to my boss today and his daughter and her boyfriend are slated to leave for a vacation to Greece tomorrow. She's freaking out, but they stand to lose a significant amount of money if they don't go. They're 29 and 30 years old, and right now Greece has only 89 reported cases. If I was in that position, I'd be getting on that airplane. Yes, it's a risk. But it's not a risk that justifies hysteria given the low incidence and their young age. 

At the same time, my parents had been talking about flying here from Denver later this year when my son has a performance for his school. They're both in their late 70's. My dad is overweight and my mom has heart issues. Neither of them should even be considering the trip at this point. 

I think the hysteria is overblown, but even when I say that, I do think this is a serious issue. I think the way people are reacting is irrational, but that doesn't mean that there's no risk.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2020, 07:20:16 PM
The "common" flu is far worse. I wonder what the crisis of the month will be in June.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2020, 08:51:46 PM
June bugs.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 10, 2020, 09:24:50 PM
The "common" flu is far worse. I wonder what the crisis of the month will be in June.
Read that 34,000 died from it last year.The media loves sensationalism as Bwarb said the hysteria is overblown.IMO he's right......hopefully
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on March 10, 2020, 09:33:52 PM
Read that 34,000 died from it last year.The media loves sensationalism as Bwarb said the hysteria is overblown.IMO he's right......hopefully
I'm sure to a degree the hysteria is overblown, but I'm also interested in why some places have gone so hard after it (quarantining and such). Cable TV can't be freaking out China and Italy all at once.

Anyway, I'm not the most opposed to better safe than sorry. And if it is mostly a media sensationalism thing, someone educated has to actually say something (perhaps they are, I dunno).

I guess I come down on the idea that things are not as bad as they sound because they never are. But by the same token, I sometimes worry about that kind of wide-base skepticism because sometimes being wired to imagine we're not the suckers gets folks in trouble. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 10, 2020, 09:40:06 PM
I'm sure to a degree the hysteria is overblown, but I'm also interested in why some places have gone so hard after it (quarantining and such). Cable TV can't be freaking out China and Italy all at once.
That's a great point just curious how they immediately know it's certainly Corona,when possibly it could be the common - or not
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 10, 2020, 09:46:50 PM
The bounce was rather short lived, but of course it could come back.  DJIA down 150.
Why is it i don't get the small numbers & symbols in the Business Sections but I clearly understand them in the Daily Racing Form :017:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on March 10, 2020, 09:55:29 PM
On a happier note, sort of,  I was driving through my neighborhood today and noticed a flag I dont recall being flown in my neighborhood before.  It was a half and half flag.  One half Gators, the other half the big ole M.

I was so tempted to bang on the door and ask for Gatorama.
😥
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 11, 2020, 05:34:35 AM
COVID is "different" and less well understood, hence the caution.  The same happened with H1N1 in 2018 (I think) and MERS and SARS.  Is it being overplayed?  That certainly is possible, maybe in two years "we" largely forgot this ever happened and are on to something else new and different.  It IS having a rather dramatic economic impact from what I can discern.  I don't recall this being so severe in previous outbreaks.

The wife and I are not doing anything different at all (yet).  We are scheduled to fly to Turkey April 6, we'll see how that goes.  I prepaid for the hotel for 8 days.  Our friend who is meeting us there has cut his European trip short, he's coming back here Monday (he hopes).  He was to be in Europe for two months.  He's in Egypt at the moment.

Obviously travel companies have been demolished, even ones like Crackerbarrel, which one would thing is a relatively safe boring stock (I did).

Stock market futures are down this morning early fairly hard.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 11, 2020, 07:59:24 AM
I'd be hesitant to take any trip beyond our nation's borders right now.  Not because of fear of infection, although that's a concern as well, but mostly because I'd have little confidence in being able to return at my leisure and according to my plans.  

For example, the VP of my division got stuck in Italy for about 4 days beyond his intended travel, almost 2 weeks ago.  Things have only gotten worse there since then, he likely wouldn't make it out at all, if he tried now.  And they're headed that way in many other European, Middle Eastern, and Asian countries.  Turkey specifically,  "just" announced its first case, and given the extent of reported cases in almost every nation around them, many in the global community suspect them of lying, and that things have already progressed much further there, than they are letting on.

I'd caution you to take GREAT care CD, I'd hate to get stuck in a foreign country as routes home were getting cut off.  Just my opinion, obviously we all need to make our own decisions on this.  

Of course, by April 6th, things might have played out one way or the other, in both Turkey and in the USA, so the decision could very well be easier then, than it would be now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 11, 2020, 08:17:21 AM
Yeah, I got a great deal on probably the top hotel in Istanbul for 8 nights so I prepaid, but I might get that back.  Airline is already paid as well.

Our other Turkish friend here who manages a restaurant we like spend about 5 minutes giving us "warnings" about how to handle being in Istanbul, including "Don't eat any rice or potatoes", aside from the usual about taking care of one's money and credit cards.  He said not to use the later unless in a large chain type place.  He's been here 29 years and doesn't go back very often but his sister does.

If our friend cancels, we probably will as well.  He comes back Monday as his trip was significantly disrupted.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 11, 2020, 08:17:50 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/fZIBUsc.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 11, 2020, 09:04:20 AM
Overall I suspect China's numbers to be underreported by a factor of 10 or so.  My suppliers' factories in regions nowhere near the primary outbreak areas, have been completely shut down now for almost 2 months.  That never, ever happens.  Even during CNY and Golden Week, they always have at least a skeleton crew.  But right now?  Nothing.  And they still don't know when they're coming back online.

The COVID19 case numbers they are reporting to the WHO would suggest they're containing it. 

The reality suggests something else.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2020, 09:09:09 AM
I don't like China. I'd never go there. 

One of my SIL is Chinese (1st born American from immigrants) and she took her 4 kids last year. They spent the whole trip with masks on - to breathe safely.

She said she'd never go back, for any reason. I'll heed that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 11, 2020, 09:15:02 AM
Yeah, being able to see the air you breathe or stare directly at the sun at midday is not a good thing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 11, 2020, 09:16:12 AM
My brother went to China twice on business in'15 & '16 said the same thing,Soot,smog,fog,masks.You'd think as their economy picked up they might figure it out
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2020, 09:28:19 AM
Did China sign the Paris thing?

I'm sure they keep tabs on their own emissions. I'm also sure they lie about it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on March 11, 2020, 09:39:58 AM
Overall I suspect China's numbers to be underreported by a factor of 10 or so.  My suppliers' factories in regions nowhere near the primary outbreak areas, have been completely shut down now for almost 2 months.  That never, ever happens.  Even during CNY and Golden Week, they always have at least a skeleton crew.  But right now?  Nothing.  And they still don't know when they're coming back online.

The COVID19 case numbers they are reporting to the WHO would suggest they're containing it. 

The reality suggests something else.
China is taking some drastic steps to reduce transmission.  For example, people are told not to leave their house, and trips for shopping are limited, and schools are all online.  They've even limited elevators to four people at a time.  So I don't think the lack of factory output is necessarily suggesting they are lying.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on March 11, 2020, 09:40:59 AM
Did China sign the Paris thing?

I'm sure they keep tabs on their own emissions. I'm also sure they lie about it.
Yes, I believe they and the US signed it on the same day.

And yes, I'm sure they are
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 11, 2020, 09:50:10 AM
Did China sign the Paris thing?

I'm sure they keep tabs on their own emissions. I'm also sure they lie about it.
They did, but they have no real obligations until 2030.  And even then, if they miss, it doesn't matter, to them.  China has a huge air pollution problem in the normal sense (so do major cities in Europe, but not as bad).  They don't really have a need to "lie".  Folks can estimate their coal usage and calculate CO2 generation.  They are still building coal generating facilities without pollution controls of any sort (or limited sorts).

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on March 11, 2020, 10:16:18 AM
I have a cruise schedule for the last week of March, The Cruise line has offered to let us cancel up to 48 hours before the cruise with full credit for future cruise through December 2022. 

Personally I see no reason to cancel for fear of catching COVID-19. However there is the fear of the ship getting quarantined for several days when we get back. That is the risk vs reward that I am weighing right now. So far as I know 2 cruise ships have been quarantined returning to the US so far. I will probably wait up until the 48 hours to see if any more ships have it happened before making a decision. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2020, 10:27:59 AM
We canceled ours, based on quarantine fears. We're young and healthy so I wasn't worried about the virus. I was worried about getting back to work. We'll probably use the voucher for our 2021 Trans-Atlantic.

Airfare (points) has also been completely refunded. So, we'll spend a week or two at our new place in Florida, painting and remodeling a bathroom.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 11, 2020, 10:31:14 AM
I figure spending an extra week on a cruise ship would be "OK" with us if I had internet and reading materials.

We have a balcony suite so some exposure to the outside.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on March 11, 2020, 10:33:32 AM
However there is the fear of the ship getting quarantined for several days when we get back.
Yup, that's the issue
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 11, 2020, 10:42:00 AM
April 6 is our departure date for Istanbul, no cruise involved, I think is possible air travel to Europe will be curtailed by then.  I guess our cruise in September will be OK.  I have not yet made air reservations, and can delay the cruise if needed.

That one is in the Baltic and I was looking forward to visiting Russia, Finland, and Sweden.  The wife has a good friend in Sweden and we were going to spend 4-5 days with her.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2020, 10:56:04 AM
I don't like China. I'd never go there.

One of my SIL is Chinese (1st born American from immigrants) and she took her 4 kids last year. They spent the whole trip with masks on - to breathe safely.

She said she'd never go back, for any reason. I'll heed that.
I loved China when I went (3 trips during ~2015). I'd gladly go back--once this whole Coronavirus thing peters out...

I was in Shanghai and Shenzhen, and Shanghai was quite nice. Shenzhen more dirty, but not horribly so. I've heard Beijing and many other inland cities have terrible pollution, but that wasn't my experience in the coastal cities. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2020, 10:58:43 AM
China is taking some drastic steps to reduce transmission.  For example, people are told not to leave their house, and trips for shopping are limited, and schools are all online.  They've even limited elevators to four people at a time.  So I don't think the lack of factory output is necessarily suggesting they are lying. 
Yeah, one of the guys I know on my homebrew forum is an expat teaching English in Wuhan. They've all been quarantined, and classes are all being taught online. For a few weeks the streets looked post-apocalyptic because of how empty they were, but it seems that as time has gone by, they've been easing up.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2020, 11:09:46 AM
I figure spending an extra week on a cruise ship would be "OK" with us if I had internet and reading materials.

We have a balcony suite so some exposure to the outside.
We had a balcony too. The majority of the ship is balcony. I just didn't want to get stuck.

That, and we are very social people*. I'd rather there be 700 people (full capacity) on board than 250. I'm afraid that's what it will be - or even less??


* We met a German couple on our last crossing, as they use the cruise to get to the US, where they own property in Florida. We've now stayed with them once at their place in Italy, and twice in Florida, including a few weeks ago. It's nice to meet new people, and make good friends. We'll visit them in Munich next year, and then take the crossing back to our homes in Florida.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 11, 2020, 11:15:16 AM
Obviously, the huge cruise liners have a lot of interior cabins, and cabins that only have a window.  Some figure the food is the same so why pay more for a balcony.

I was much happier with our cruise in the Med than either in the US.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2020, 11:19:53 AM
I'll never go on one of those big ships again. Did it one time. That was enough.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 11, 2020, 11:24:57 AM
I don't mind'em myself.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 11, 2020, 12:19:35 PM
China is taking some drastic steps to reduce transmission.  For example, people are told not to leave their house, and trips for shopping are limited, and schools are all online.  They've even limited elevators to four people at a time.  So I don't think the lack of factory output is necessarily suggesting they are lying. 
I think the lack of factory output, nearly two months after they began quarantining those workers, indicates they are still dealing with a lot more than they are advising the WHO and the rest of the world.

I also know them to be chronic liars when it comes to things that they believe might make them look bad in the eyes of the world.

Don't get me wrong, I like China in general and I've worked directly with dozens of Chinese employees of my own companies, and others, for decades-- including two direct reports on the global team I managed at a previous employer.  I like their people, and I like their country, but this is a cultural thing for them, and a political thing for their government.

I do not trust a single data point they've distributed so far, and the truth is, we'll never know, because they have the capability of completely locking down that type of information, unlike most Western countries.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 12, 2020, 08:51:36 AM
It appears that both Delta and Hilton are allowing changes, cancellations, so our trip is off.  I'm not going to try and call until the surge hopefully abates a bit.  I hate being on hold.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2020, 09:21:59 AM
you have a speaker phone?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 12, 2020, 09:26:22 AM
you have a speaker phone?
Yes, I hate being on hold, period.  The wife wants me to call now, I told her she could have at it, I bet their lines are clogged.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on March 12, 2020, 10:10:34 AM
We canceled ours, based on quarantine fears. We're young and healthy so I wasn't worried about the virus. I was worried about getting back to work. We'll probably use the voucher for our 2021 Trans-Atlantic.

Airfare (points) has also been completely refunded. So, we'll spend a week or two at our new place in Florida, painting and remodeling a bathroom.

Wife is leaning towards cancelling our cruise and I also purchased my flights by points, so I will get everything refunded or credited toward further cruise.

It really is the fear of a quarantine that is moving us. Though I talked about talking our laptops with us, because both of us can work remotely, and just work from quarantine if it happens. 

I can't imagine just staying at home and using PTO for laying around the house, so I will probably take maybe a day or two but not the whole time. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on March 12, 2020, 10:12:30 AM
April 6 is our departure date for Istanbul, no cruise involved, I think is possible air travel to Europe will be curtailed by then.  I guess our cruise in September will be OK.  I have not yet made air reservations, and can delay the cruise if needed.

That one is in the Baltic and I was looking forward to visiting Russia, Finland, and Sweden.  The wife has a good friend in Sweden and we were going to spend 4-5 days with her.

Son is currently in Scotland, He is suppose to fly to Amsterdam today, but is thinking of just staying in the UK, so that he doesn't get stuck, since he is suppose to fly back to his home on Monday. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 12, 2020, 10:17:58 AM
Wise move to cancel right now, given the lack of penalty. 

I get 7 weeks of PTO these days, and can never seem to get to that number used.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MichiFan87 on March 12, 2020, 10:18:34 AM
Well, it looks like we're officially in a recession with the market going as low as it has been since the Christmas 2018 correction.... I'm not sure how close we are to the bottom either.....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2020, 10:19:29 AM
guess I won't be retiring in the next few months - oh well
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 12, 2020, 10:21:11 AM
Recession is a broad term, and yes, we are in one. Unlike 2008, this one is not rooted in bad financial fundamentals. Strictly outside forces here, and not sustainable. 

I believe we will be very rocky through the 2nd quarter, before things stabilize.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 12, 2020, 10:35:20 AM
Gavin Newsom just announced that all gatherings of over 250 people should be cancelled. Wife and I are planning to go to A Bronx Tale at our local OC theater (Segerstrom) tonight, and she's concerned whether we should go or not--or if Segerstrom will even continue holding shows.

Then, next Friday a winery club we belong to in Paso Robles is holding their annual party (probably well over 500 in attendance, but mostly held outside over the extent of their property, and not in close quarters), and we're trying to figure out whether that event will even occur. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 12, 2020, 10:39:30 AM
On the bright side... We're nearly out of my wife's favorite "daily drinker" wine, a house brand for BevMo called "Unruly." BevMo is the home of the 5c wine sale, where you buy one bottle for normal price and get the next for 5c, effectively so the wine is half-price compared to the label. So her daily drinker cab and chard both come out to $7/btl. 

Well, today they're having a "flash sale" on Unruly where buying one bottle gets you TWO extra for that 5c. And they have a $10 off $75 coupon. 

Looks like I'm buying 2 cases :72:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 12, 2020, 10:47:26 AM
 For a few weeks the streets looked post-apocalyptic because of how empty they were, but it seems that as time has gone by, they've been easing up.
Thats good we should all be circulating that story from someone on the inside.Because of the Jerry Springer news sevices fanning the flames the truth won't get a fair shake.At least until even the Carnival Barkers realize this has run it's course
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2020, 11:19:14 AM
Gavin Newsom just announced that all gatherings of over 250 people should be cancelled. Wife and I are planning to go to A Bronx Tale at our local OC theater (Segerstrom) tonight, and she's concerned whether we should go or not--or if Segerstrom will even continue holding shows.

why the arbitrary number of 250?

why not 500 or 100 or 50? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 12, 2020, 11:22:18 AM
Seems arbitrary.

So, 249 is OK, but 250? No way!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2020, 11:25:44 AM
hopefully some math behind it

so the consequence of one person affecting 200 of 250 people is the contamination of 200 x 10 = 2000

much better than one person affecting 500 folks

2,000 more affected walking around is OK, but 5,000 is bad 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 12, 2020, 11:32:07 AM
There are statistical reasons for it, but it's still not ever going to be hard and fast.  As pointed out, is there a statistically significant difference between 250 people, and 249?  No, of course not.

In Austin our large-gathering ban is 2,500 people.  So perhaps we're doomed???

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 12, 2020, 11:35:51 AM
why the arbitrary number of 250?

why not 500 or 100 or 50?
I know it came from the CDC. Originally they were talking about >1000 people, but they brought it down to 250.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2020, 12:04:43 PM
next week, if things go south, they could move it to 10
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2020, 12:06:12 PM
There are statistical reasons for it, but it's still not ever going to be hard and fast.  As pointed out, is there a statistically significant difference between 250 people, and 249?  No, of course not.

In Austin our large-gathering ban is 2,500 people.  So perhaps we're doomed???


another fantastic reason to never move there
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 12, 2020, 12:12:40 PM
next week, if things go south, they could move it to 10
No worries - the only time I panic buy is at last call
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on March 12, 2020, 12:17:15 PM
Same, we have tickets to a show tomorrow, and are hoping they just cancel it, so we don't have to make a call.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MichiFan87 on March 12, 2020, 12:25:59 PM
And now the Ivy League schools are all cancelling the rest of their spring sports seasons.....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2020, 12:32:35 PM
No worries - the only time I panic buy is at last call
the bar in my small town has been closed more than open the past 5 years
I've learned to drink at home and alone if pushed
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 12, 2020, 12:36:02 PM
the bar in my small town has been closed more than open the past 5 years
I've learned to drink at home and alone if pushed
When I drink alone... I prefer to be by myself.

Although...

(https://i.imgur.com/9S22Non.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 12, 2020, 12:37:27 PM
the bar in my small town has been closed more than open the past 5 years
I've learned to drink at home and alone if pushed
You need to open a bar.


I only drink when I'm alone, or with people.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 12, 2020, 12:38:28 PM
Is it just me that thinks maybe this is starting to go beyond prudence and into CYA mode? 

That it's just a race to out-response each other? 

I.e. that events are just being cancelled because if someone is LESS prudent than some other entity and something goes wrong, they'll get a PR b!tch-slap, and they want to avoid that rather than actually making these calls based upon legitimate risk assessment? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 12, 2020, 12:48:24 PM
You need to open a bar.

I wouldn't serve Corona
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 12, 2020, 12:49:28 PM
Is it just me that thinks maybe this is starting to go beyond prudence and into CYA mode?
No.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 12, 2020, 12:53:26 PM
Is it just me that thinks maybe this is starting to go beyond prudence and into CYA mode?

That it's just a race to out-response each other?

I.e. that events are just being cancelled because if someone is LESS prudent than some other entity and something goes wrong, they'll get a PR b!tch-slap, and they want to avoid that rather than actually making these calls based upon legitimate risk assessment?

I absolutely believe that's a big part of it.  Effectively a race to the bottom, but in terms of social or political capital.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 12, 2020, 12:56:34 PM
I'd rather see this now rather than later when it's more urgent.  This is prudent.  It's pro-active.  It's smart.  Sorry/not sorry if it's inconvenient or things don't seem dire enough to warrant it.
.
The same people questioning this would be the same saying we should've done something sooner if we hadn't......
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 12, 2020, 01:30:27 PM
I'd rather see this now rather than later when it's more urgent.  This is prudent.  It's pro-active.  It's smart.  Sorry/not sorry if it's inconvenient or things don't seem dire enough to warrant it.
.
The same people questioning this would be the same saying we should've done something sooner if we hadn't......
I mean, I get that...

But when you look at the Big Ten Tournament, for example. I can see the rationale for keeping out fans. I could see the rationale, if the tournament was a week or two out, to cancel it to avoid all the travel/etc.

But the teams are all on-site. The media is all on-site. They've been on planes. In hotels. It seems that holding the games is such a minimal additional risk compared to what has already been done that I don't understand it. 

If the NCAA cancels the tourney this week, given that nobody has traveled for the event yet, I would understand that more than this. But I wouldn't expect them to cancel it next Thursday/Friday morning. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 12, 2020, 01:44:13 PM
I mean, I get that...

But when you look at the Big Ten Tournament, for example. I can see the rationale for keeping out fans. I could see the rationale, if the tournament was a week or two out, to cancel it to avoid all the travel/etc.

But the teams are all on-site. The media is all on-site. They've been on planes. In hotels. It seems that holding the games is such a minimal additional risk compared to what has already been done that I don't understand it.

If the NCAA cancels the tourney this week, given that nobody has traveled for the event yet, I would understand that more than this. But I wouldn't expect them to cancel it next Thursday/Friday morning.
Maybe they will let the first four play, and then cancel in the middle of the last one.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2020, 01:48:37 PM
I'd rather see this now rather than later when it's more urgent.  This is prudent.  It's pro-active.  It's smart.  Sorry/not sorry if it's inconvenient or things don't seem dire enough to warrant it.
.
The same people questioning this would be the same saying we should've done something sooner if we hadn't......
agreed
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2020, 01:48:53 PM
I mean, I get that...

But when you look at the Big Ten Tournament, for example. I can see the rationale for keeping out fans. I could see the rationale, if the tournament was a week or two out, to cancel it to avoid all the travel/etc.

But the teams are all on-site. The media is all on-site. They've been on planes. In hotels. It seems that holding the games is such a minimal additional risk compared to what has already been done that I don't understand it.

If the NCAA cancels the tourney this week, given that nobody has traveled for the event yet, I would understand that more than this. But I wouldn't expect them to cancel it next Thursday/Friday morning.
also agree with this
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MichiFan87 on March 12, 2020, 01:59:33 PM
It's a shitshow all around for sure. The BigTen is the only league left that will supposedly continue its hockey tournament, but I wouldn't be surprised if that ends up not happening, too.....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 12, 2020, 02:20:31 PM
We were at Costco today and there was panic buying, the lines to check out took up half the store.  We left.  Kroger was almost out of TP but not insanely busy.

I managed to get through and cancelled our hotel in Turkey, those were nonrefundable, two rooms for 8 nights at the Hilton there.  I liked that they cancelled it and will refund.  The lady said the lines were insane today with cancellations.

We had lunch at Killer Burger, which is quite good, and noted a large number of take out orders.

I bought a camera lens for the trip, well, really because it sounded pretty cool, so I will keep that for future travel.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 12, 2020, 02:30:10 PM
We were at Costco today and there was panic buying, the lines to check out took up half the store.  We left.  Kroger was almost out of TP but not insanely busy.
I need to go later today. Hopefully it's not insane. 
 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MichiFan87 on March 12, 2020, 02:44:10 PM
Kansas and Duke are effectively suspending their athletic departments, including basketball.......
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 12, 2020, 02:48:28 PM
Kansas and Duke are effectively suspending their athletic departments, including basketball.......
So does that move Purdue from first four out to last four in? 

#askingforafriend
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 12, 2020, 02:59:11 PM
I need to go later today. Hopefully it's not insane.
 
Every Costco I've heard of, in every city I've spoken with folks about, is a disaster area.  Heck, my last trip to Costco was over a week ago and even then the panic-buying frenzy had already begun.  "Animal Spirits" I suppose.

Grocery stores around here are fine, though.  Completely out of hand sanitizer, and running low on toilet paper for reasons I do not understand, but not complete anarchy like Costcos have become.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 12, 2020, 03:06:47 PM
We were in Costco last week several times, I bought eye glasses and the wife bought me a piano and things were "fine", the usual.  Today was really insane.  I think they were out of TP, something which has everyone confused.  I think it's panic buying.

It might as well be coffee or napkins or tampons.  Toilet paper is made in the US, nearly all of it.  Some of the pulp used comes from Brazil or Canada.

I am so confused.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 12, 2020, 03:07:12 PM
I need to go later today. Hopefully it's not insane.
 
Bring a weapon.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 12, 2020, 03:09:44 PM
Bring a weapon.
Dood lives in Cali.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 12, 2020, 03:10:02 PM
Luckily, we have clear leadership nationally.  We listen to the CDC people and then hear the president tell us precisely the opposite of what they told us.  Fun stuff.  This is why you don't let a 7 year-old drive....because you don't control when a serious curveball presents itself.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 12, 2020, 03:10:14 PM
Dood lives in Cali.
Bring a nerf gun.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 12, 2020, 03:17:19 PM
The only issue I saw with Costco was the long long check out lines.  People were being very courteous otherwise.  We even got gas, which was $2.28/gal for premium.

We just didn't want to wait to check out that long.

I called Hilton to cancel the hotel and the lady said they had been slammed all day.  She was very nice about it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 12, 2020, 03:25:54 PM
I mean, there's a lot of reasons you don't let a 7 year old drive.

My 10 year old is a pretty awesome driver though, I'll tell you that much.

On the toilet paper, I can SORT of understand the idea that people are planning on isolating themselves for multiple weeks at a time, and if they're attempting to avoid all human contact or at least a lot of it, then the necessities must be purchased in bulk at the beginning of this.  But even with my wife and 12yo daughter using toilet paper at a crazy rate, we still only use maybe 4-6 rolls per week.  So a 24-pack should get us through a month of quarantine.

But some folks are carting off pallets of the stuff.  Are they trying to create a shortage and then corner the market or something?  So strange.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 12, 2020, 03:34:32 PM
Luckily, we have clear leadership nationally.  We listen to the CDC people and then hear the president tell us precisely the opposite of what they told us.  Fun stuff.  This is why you don't let a 7 year-old drive....because you don't control when a serious curveball presents itself.
Confirmation bias. Or/ you weren’t listening. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2020, 03:57:03 PM
I'm going to the grocery store in an hour, after I drop the daughter at Olive Garden

I was out of town for nearly a week, so just normal shopping

I'm worried I won't have basketball to watch in the evenings - lucky for daylight savings and spring weather, I can spend a few hours in the yard after work
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 12, 2020, 04:17:41 PM
Confirmation bias. Or/ you weren’t listening.
You're honestly defending him.......holy hell.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 12, 2020, 04:18:43 PM
Let's not do this. Not here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 12, 2020, 04:22:59 PM
As soon as the president stops encouraging people with Corono virus to go to work.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2020, 04:23:07 PM
I'm at work and didn't need a government official to encourage me
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 12, 2020, 04:24:19 PM
Let me get your medal
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 12, 2020, 04:25:31 PM
It's not just  at the top, the NYC mayor literally told people to try to get into subway cars that had fewer people.  The level of understanding is brutal.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MichiFan87 on March 12, 2020, 04:27:18 PM
And now the Big Ten is suspending all sports for the rest of the year....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 12, 2020, 05:32:51 PM
As soon as the president stops encouraging people with Corono virus to go to work. 
You're honestly defending him.......holy hell.
Not defending him at all in fact I don’t think he needs defending. Constructively criticizing you for posting something that many many many people would solidly disagree with.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 12, 2020, 05:47:02 PM
I imagine we have people here all over the political spectrum (I hope so).  However, this isn't the place to reveal that IMHO.

We had years ago some "issues" as a result of political dissension superceding discussion about, well great running backs and it got out of hand, leading to the current set of rules.

If you despise Trump or admire Trump, great, fine with me, but keep it off these pages.  We have a very entertaining Area 51 for such things.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on March 12, 2020, 06:00:02 PM
Is it just me that thinks maybe this is starting to go beyond prudence and into CYA mode?

That it's just a race to out-response each other?

I.e. that events are just being cancelled because if someone is LESS prudent than some other entity and something goes wrong, they'll get a PR b!tch-slap, and they want to avoid that rather than actually making these calls based upon legitimate risk assessment?
 Probably replying late to this, but that is probably what is going on. No one now can take a chance of having their event and have someone get sick and die. We certainly can't have people personally responsible for making their own decisions on whether the risk is worth the reward. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on March 12, 2020, 06:03:02 PM
I'd rather see this now rather than later when it's more urgent.  This is prudent.  It's pro-active.  It's smart.  Sorry/not sorry if it's inconvenient or things don't seem dire enough to warrant it.
.
The same people questioning this would be the same saying we should've done something sooner if we hadn't......
Quite wrong. I am one saying it and will continue to say it. This is a blown out of proportion hysterical overreaction and have never said anything in that past that things should have be done sooner (Particularly when it comes to governmental actions which I would generally say never should have come at all). 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 12, 2020, 06:05:32 PM
Every Costco I've heard of, in every city I've spoken with folks about, is a disaster area.  Heck, my last trip to Costco was over a week ago and even then the panic-buying frenzy had already begun.  "Animal Spirits" I suppose.

Grocery stores around here are fine, though.  Completely out of hand sanitizer, and running low on toilet paper for reasons I do not understand, but not complete anarchy like Costcos have become.
Costco wasn't a problem. More busy than usual, and the TP/paper towels were gone. Bottled water supplies were VERY low but not gone.

But we had our Costco anarchy 2 weeks ago and it settled down. Maybe yours just started?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on March 12, 2020, 06:05:46 PM
You're honestly defending him.......holy hell.
You honestly saying that you actually listen to him . . . . holy hell. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 12, 2020, 06:07:24 PM
I believe you, but what's the break-even point?  Can 3 people die going to basketball games?  Is that acceptable?  Can 100 people die going to concerts?  What's the number?  
What's the number if it's someone you care about?  I'm guessing that number is 1.  Then you'd change your stance (but not a moment before).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 12, 2020, 06:07:59 PM
Bring a weapon.
Dood lives in Cali.
Bring a nerf gun.
At 6'5", 265#, and a 2nd degree black belt, I'm not worried. I *am* a weapon. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on March 12, 2020, 06:10:29 PM
Personally I think the press, the president, the CDC, the NCAA, the Pro sports leaque, etc. are all overreacting to this. 

Personally, I am quite peeved that I am losing my vacation because of all this, not because I am afraid of getting sick, but because I can't trust that when I leave the country I am going to be able to get back into the country because of all the hysteria. It sucks I am going to lose out because of other people's irrational (and yes I think it is irrational unless you are very old and/or already have an underlying condition) fears. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 12, 2020, 06:12:39 PM
I imagine we have people here all over the political spectrum (I hope so).  However, this isn't the place to reveal that IMHO.

We had years ago some "issues" as a result of political dissension superceding discussion about, well great running backs and it got out of hand, leading to the current set of rules.

If you despise Trump or admire Trump, great, fine with me, but keep it off these pages.  We have a very entertaining Area 51 for such things.
+1

Seriously, people. This isn't the place. 

We've skirted political issues in the past, because we've talked about issues and policy, not about people and partisanship. This is going the wrong direction.

I recognize that all of us likely have very strong feelings, one way or another, on the current inhabitant of the White House.

I'm happy to debate any of them with any of you over a beer in a bar (although no shaking hands--not in this environment), or even over homebrews and something my wife and I cook.

But not on these pages. We've kept it clean for as long as I remember being around this place and all of its predecessors. Let's not change it now. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 12, 2020, 06:13:22 PM
My karate instructors back in the day were two guys.  One was a 6'4" "former" Marine black belt and one little Asian guy who walked around occasionally saying something.  We asked the big guy how he'd do against the little guy and he said "He'd whip my butt in about 15 seconds.".

The Asian guy every so often would smack the block we used to hit that had a meter on it attached to a spring as he walked by and pin the meter.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on March 12, 2020, 06:15:31 PM
I believe you, but what's the break-even point?  Can 3 people die going to basketball games?  Is that acceptable?  Can 100 people die going to concerts?  What's the number? 
What's the number if it's someone you care about?  I'm guessing that number is 1.  Then you'd change your stance (but not a moment before).
What is the break-even point, Can 3 people die because they are driving on the freeway at the speed limit? is that acceptable? Can 100 people die driving on the freeway? what's the number? What's the number if it's someone you are about? 

You can make your argument about anything in which someone may die. I am willing to beat that by the end of the month more people would have died in car accidents, Died from the flu, Died from household accident and any number of things than die from CROVID-19. Death is tragic, but you cannot argue because someone might die to stop things from happening. People die from all kinds preventable things all the time, but we don't stop it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on March 12, 2020, 06:18:47 PM
I imagine we have people here all over the political spectrum (I hope so).  However, this isn't the place to reveal that IMHO.

We had years ago some "issues" as a result of political dissension superceding discussion about, well great running backs and it got out of hand, leading to the current set of rules.

If you despise Trump or admire Trump, great, fine with me, but keep it off these pages.  We have a very entertaining Area 51 for such things.
I apology, though I must say I think only times I have every brought up politics on this forum has been in response to OAM's political statements. I will refrain in the future. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 12, 2020, 06:21:59 PM
Personally I think the press, the president, the CDC, the NCAA, the Pro sports leaque, etc. are all overreacting to this.

Personally, I am quite peeved that I am losing my vacation because of all this, not because I am afraid of getting sick, but because I can't trust that when I leave the country I am going to be able to get back into the country because of all the hysteria. It sucks I am going to lose out because of other people's irrational (and yes I think it is irrational unless you are very old and/or already have an underlying condition) fears.
The problem is that it's not THAT irrational.

Yes, mortality rates for anyone who is not old or with underlying medical conditions are very low. I'm not worried about what would happen if I catch COVID-19. 

But so far everything shows that this is much more transmissable than the flu. ESPECIALLY if you don't take these sort of precautions. It has a longer incubation period, and you may be asymptomatic for 24-48 hours [or more] while still being contagious. 

So I look at it this way... Sunday night we're planning to do our St Patrick's Day celebration with the kids and my wife's dad and step-mom. They're not "old", at only 65. But he has Szogren's Syndrome (an autoimmune disease) so is more susceptible to and at higher risk for these things. 

How would I feel if I'd gone to a conference tournament, came home, was completely asymptomatic, and then found out that I'd infected him and he was hospitalized or [god forbid] died? 

These containment procedures are there for a reason. 

As I've said, I'm not sure if they're going too far or not. But at least I understand why they're doing it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 12, 2020, 06:22:03 PM
People die in car crashes, so let's ignore the virus.
.
Perfect. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 12, 2020, 06:23:24 PM
The problem is that it's not THAT irrational.

Yes, mortality rates for anyone who is not old or with underlying medical conditions are very low. I'm not worried about what would happen if I catch COVID-19.

But so far everything shows that this is much more transmissable than the flu. ESPECIALLY if you don't take these sort of precautions. It has a longer incubation period, and you may be asymptomatic for 24-48 hours [or more] while still being contagious.

So I look at it this way... Sunday night we're planning to do our St Patrick's Day celebration with the kids and my wife's dad and step-mom. They're not "old", at only 65. But he has Szogren's Syndrome (an autoimmune disease) so is more susceptible to and at higher risk for these things.

How would I feel if I'd gone to a conference tournament, came home, was completely asymptomatic, and then found out that I'd infected him and he was hospitalized or [god forbid] died?

These containment procedures are there for a reason.

As I've said, I'm not sure if they're going too far or not. But at least I understand why they're doing it.
I wouldn't try to convince anyone to care about the collective.  Many won't care until they, themselves, are hospitalized.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 12, 2020, 06:37:21 PM
I don't mean to chastise anyone here at all.  I just wanted to recount an old experience we had here.  It got unpleasant.

I hope everyone stays safe and healthy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on March 12, 2020, 06:52:38 PM
Ohio schools closed for three weeks. Ohio's top health official guesstimates 100,000 people in the state are infected.

It's tough. I had planned on taking the fam to see my parents next week. But they are both in their 70's and my mom just got done with chemo. So...what, don't visit? But when realistically could I?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 12, 2020, 06:55:06 PM
Ohio schools closed for three weeks. Ohio's top health official guesstimates 100,000 people in the state are infected.

It's tough. I had planned on taking the fam to see my parents next week. But they are both in their 70's and my mom just got done with chemo. So...what, don't visit? But when realistically could I?
I would err on the side of caution in that circumstance.  I HOPE we know more about this in a couple weeks.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 12, 2020, 07:23:20 PM
That's the thing. We don't know much of anything right now. We do know that this will pass, much like other pandemics have passed.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on March 12, 2020, 07:52:08 PM
Our company just issued a no travel rule without approval from the C suite.  I'm mid trip now.  Do I need permission to go home? We wondered out loud.  We are even segregating our teams, which isn't that big of a deal.

Now I'm going to dine alone.  Still pretty normal dining crowds around here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 12, 2020, 08:08:31 PM
That's the thing. We don't know much of anything right now. We do know that this will pass, much like other pandemics have passed.
Precisely - and with this much unknown, there is absolutely nothing wrong with being proactive. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2020, 08:30:35 PM
Two weeks ago, Italy had 322 confirmed cases of the coronavirus. At that point, doctors in the country’s hospitals could lavish significant attention on each stricken patient.

One week ago, Italy had 2,502 cases of the virus, which causes the disease known as COVID-19. At that point, doctors in the country’s hospitals could still perform the most lifesaving functions by artificially ventilating patients who experienced acute breathing difficulties.


https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/who-gets-hospital-bed/607807/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/who-gets-hospital-bed/607807/)

Since we don't know how bad this will get here.  I'm ok with any precaution
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 12, 2020, 08:44:36 PM
12,000 cases in Italy, over 800 dead.  Yeah, let's just yell 'MURICA and ignore it  tough it out.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2020, 06:23:26 AM
From what I'm reading:

1.  We might not build up immunity after being infected.  We also might.
2.  Summer might, or might not, slow the spread.
3.  Those infected and "recovered" may still spread the disease for some time.
4.  Some with mild symptoms may have no idea they have the disease and be contagious.
5.  The impact on children appears to be slight.  The impact on the aged and infirm can be critical.  For healthy adults, the impact is "not too bad" usually.
6.  The virus can survive on hard surfaces for up to a day or so, apparently.

Please correct any of that you understand to be wrong.  I presume the subways are largely shutting down or not being used.  I have a "notion" that many are preparing to "shelter in place" for a week or so and see what develops, hence the Costco runs.  Obviously, group travel is just about down now.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 13, 2020, 08:17:23 AM
Now I'm going to dine alone. 
I eat a sandwich over the sink quite a bit - not that distressing ;D
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2020, 08:23:38 AM
Traffic here is way down from normal today.  I wonder if Costco today will be mobbed or empty.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: LetsGoPeay on March 13, 2020, 08:27:11 AM
We were supposed to leave on a cruise to Aruba, Curacao, Bonaire, and St. Maarten next weekend. While several cruise lines have suspended operations for 60-90 days, Royal Caribbean, on which we are booked, has not. While at this point I don't want to go simply because I'm worried about not being able to get back into the country or having to be quarantined and away from my kids, I'm also worried about losing a significant amount of money on this.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2020, 08:30:49 AM
I suspect they will shut it down and refund or allow you to reschedule. 

For guests scheduled to sail on or before July 31, 2020, the “Cruise with Confidence” program allows individual guests and guests in non-contracted groups booked on Royal Caribbean International (RCI) to cancel up to 48 hours prior to the vacation start date.7 days ago


 (https://www.royalcaribbean.com/cruise-with-confidence)
Cruise with Confidence | Royal Caribbean Cruises


https://www.cruisehive.com/royal-caribbean-allows-cancellations-up-to-48-hours-prior-to-sailing-due-to-covid-19-fears/38160 (https://www.cruisehive.com/royal-caribbean-allows-cancellations-up-to-48-hours-prior-to-sailing-due-to-covid-19-fears/38160)


 (https://www.royalcaribbean.com/cruise-with-confidence)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: LetsGoPeay on March 13, 2020, 08:34:35 AM
I suspect they will shut it down and refund or allow you to reschedule. 

For guests scheduled to sail on or before July 31, 2020, the “Cruise with Confidence” program allows individual guests and guests in non-contracted groups booked on Royal Caribbean International (RCI) to cancel up to 48 hours prior to the vacation start date.7 days ago


 (https://www.royalcaribbean.com/cruise-with-confidence)
Cruise with Confidence | Royal Caribbean Cruises


https://www.cruisehive.com/royal-caribbean-allows-cancellations-up-to-48-hours-prior-to-sailing-due-to-covid-19-fears/38160 (https://www.cruisehive.com/royal-caribbean-allows-cancellations-up-to-48-hours-prior-to-sailing-due-to-covid-19-fears/38160)


 (https://www.royalcaribbean.com/cruise-with-confidence)


Thank you sir
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2020, 08:43:32 AM
The cruise lines are looking at a global stop, I suspect, and very soon.  Cruising is "nonessential".  The airlines will be clobbered but folks do have legit need to travel by air.

One of my concerns if if/when health care professionals get ill (and contagious).  I hope they have mild symptoms in the main and can continue to work, scary as that may be, if they are treating COVID patients.  Some of the "elective" or delayable treatments could slow down.

We might need even the specialists on board to help with COVID care, meaning your knee surgery would be delayed.  I don't mean to be fear mongering, just imagining what could happen if this really has spread significantly already.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 13, 2020, 09:00:38 AM
Yes, elective surgeries and other delayable procedures are already being cancelled/forbidden at various hospitals and medical centers around the country.  The idea being there will be a more acute need for hospital beds, sterile equipment, etc. to treat outbreak patients and other more serious cases.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2020, 09:08:37 AM
The wife went two days ago for a post op check up.  Her surgeon was in a professional building up the street from us.  There is a 24/7 there on the ground floor, but everything else is some kind of specialist or PT site, so I don't think there was abnormal infection risk.  They certainly had pulled out all the stops.

I have friends who are EMTs and nurses and MDs.  One is an OB/GYN, I was chatting with him briefly on line.  He is older, 66 I think, but said he was ready to provide general service as needed, but women about to give birth also need care of course.  The OB thing has to go on.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2020, 09:16:52 AM
The spread in Italy was pretty bad, but if you've ever been to Italy, well, it's different than here.

People hang out in squares all day and all night. The people are very huggy and touchy and kissy. Add in muilti-millions of tourists (including from China - lots and lots and lots go to Italy - I was shocked at first) and there is your recipe.

We're not going to hang out in squares (or arenas) now. We are not a touchy crowd. Incoming travel is all but banned.

I don't think we will see the spread like they did. I can only hope I'm right.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 13, 2020, 09:23:22 AM
The spread in Italy was pretty bad, but if you've ever been to Italy, well, it's different than here.

People hang out in squares all day and all night. The people are very huggy and touchy and kissy. Add in muilti-millions of tourists (including from China - lots and lots and lots go to Italy - I was shocked at first) and there is your recipe.

We're not going to hang out in squares (or arenas) now. We are not a touchy crowd. Incoming travel is all but banned.

I don't think we will see the spread like they did. I can only hope I'm right.

Their population also skews older than ours so the death rate is likely going to be higher.

And no offense intended to Italy or Italians, but to anyone who has spent much time there, it's near 3rd-world in its resources, compared to most other Western countries including the US.  I've worked there, stayed extended periods with people who lived there, and when people describe it as "The Mexico of Europe" they're not far off.  It's less affluent, and lower in resources, than many other countries in Europe. 

Not saying we won't see significant outbreak here in the US, indeed it has already begun.  But there are also many reasons to believe the death rate in the USA is going to be lower than that in Italy, even if the R0 or infection rate, and penetration to the population, is the same or similar.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2020, 09:23:51 AM
France as well is very kissy, but I think they have limited that.  They do like hanging out in public spaces for sure, one thing I like about it.

Some of our close friends are pretty elderly in France.  Two cousins of the wife's are MDs.  I have not heard from them of late.  Maybe "we" will learn that many of us can work from home rather effectively for much of the time.  

Traffic here is WAY down.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 13, 2020, 09:29:04 AM
Yeah France is also a more progressed country than Italy in many ways.  I expect them to fare better.

Spain on the other hand, could end up being more like Italy...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2020, 09:35:36 AM
Good analogy, with Italy and Mexico.

Spain doesn't get as many Chinese tourists as Italy once did.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on March 13, 2020, 09:43:09 AM
The spread in Italy was pretty bad, but if you've ever been to Italy, well, it's different than here.

People hang out in squares all day and all night. The people are very huggy and touchy and kissy. Add in muilti-millions of tourists (including from China - lots and lots and lots go to Italy - I was shocked at first) and there is your recipe.

We're not going to hang out in squares (or arenas) now. We are not a touchy crowd. Incoming travel is all but banned.

I don't think we will see the spread like they did. I can only hope I'm right.
I heard an interesting theory that it wasn't really about preventing the spread overall, but spacing it out so medical facilities weren't overwhelmed and heard immunity could develop.

Basically, most people will get it in some form, but slowing it limits the problems.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2020, 09:45:12 AM
Yes, it is called "spreading the curve" or "dampening the curve" so the number of cases is spread out over time instead of "all at once".

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 13, 2020, 09:47:42 AM
"Flatten the curve."

(https://wwmt.com/resources/media/88e30b7b-d821-4a58-ab2d-f462994e8345-large16x9_GFX3.PNG?1584035934464)\

The total area under those two curves is represented as being the same, in other words the same % of the population will become infected.  But the peak is much lower, and ideally, below the threshold of maximum capacity for treatment by all of the medial facilities in the region.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on March 13, 2020, 09:53:21 AM
When the Mrs. and I were in Italy over the Christmas break, the places we we're at were full of Chinese tourists. 

K12 schools in Minnesota haven't closed yet, but everyone involved in my wife's circles have been instructed to start drawing up plans for online curriculum delivery. I suspect that next week's state boys basketball tournament will be cancelled, and this weekend's girls basketball tournament has been forced behind closed doors. 

I'm in the "move aggressively now" camp, because if we're waiting until it's obvious to close schools, it's too late. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2020, 09:56:38 AM
When the Mrs. and I were in Italy over the Christmas break, the places we we're at were full of Chinese tourists.

K12 schools in Minnesota haven't closed yet, but everyone involved in my wife's circles have been instructed to start drawing up plans for online curriculum delivery. I suspect that next week's state boys basketball tournament will be cancelled, and this weekend's girls basketball tournament has been forced behind closed doors.

I'm in the "move aggressively now" camp, because if we're waiting until it's obvious to close schools, it's too late.
This is the problem. I truly believe this.

Oh, and don't get in the way of one of their "convoy" people trains. They'll run your ass over and not be sorry.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on March 13, 2020, 10:12:28 AM
People die in car crashes, so let's ignore the virus.
.
Perfect.

Yes that is exactly what I said. I know you are not stupid, so I guess you choose to just not read what I said.

I have never said ignore the virus, I have said we are over reacting to the danger that it poses due to the hysteria being presented by others.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on March 13, 2020, 10:20:27 AM
My daughter woke up with a fever so I guess we are in quarantine mode now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 13, 2020, 10:21:23 AM
This is the problem. I truly believe this.

Oh, and don't get in the way of one of their "convoy" people trains. They'll run your ass over and not be sorry.
Totally different expectations of courtesy, and proximity, in many Asian nations.  It's just cultural.

First time I noticed it was during a high school trip to Hawaii.  At the time, it was mostly Japanese tourists (they practically owned the island of Oahu in the 80s/early 90s), although now Chinese tourists are also prevalent there.  The major difference was in waiting for access to confined spaces.  For them, waiting for an elevator, they push up against one another and past each other, in an effort to get to the front.  Then, the moment the elevator doors open, nobody is waiting for the folks on the elevator to get off first, it's just a complete free-for-all with people trying to get off, while being pushed and shoved around by people trying to get on.  In American and most Western cultures, that's rude behavior.  For them, it's simple, daily life.

For those who haven't been to Asia in general or China specifically, and especially into the factories which are VAST-- larger than many American cities by themselves-- you really don't have any way to understand just exactly how cramped and close, people there live.  It's mind-boggling.  In factories like Foxconn they "hot-bunk" which means they share beds/living quarters. People on day shift live and sleep in those bunkbed quarters at night, and people on night shift live and sleep in those bunkbed quarters during the day.  And really, most places run 3 shifts, so it's just constantly being packed into close quarters with other humans, at all times of day and night.

Just pointing out some other cultural and physical differences between places where this virus originated, and our own country.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on March 13, 2020, 10:21:52 AM
The problem is that it's not THAT irrational.

Yes, mortality rates for anyone who is not old or with underlying medical conditions are very low. I'm not worried about what would happen if I catch COVID-19.

But so far everything shows that this is much more transmissable than the flu. ESPECIALLY if you don't take these sort of precautions. It has a longer incubation period, and you may be asymptomatic for 24-48 hours [or more] while still being contagious.

So I look at it this way... Sunday night we're planning to do our St Patrick's Day celebration with the kids and my wife's dad and step-mom. They're not "old", at only 65. But he has Szogren's Syndrome (an autoimmune disease) so is more susceptible to and at higher risk for these things.

How would I feel if I'd gone to a conference tournament, came home, was completely asymptomatic, and then found out that I'd infected him and he was hospitalized or [god forbid] died?

These containment procedures are there for a reason.

As I've said, I'm not sure if they're going too far or not. But at least I understand why they're doing it.
I have told my 80 year mother to stay at home because she has a compromised immune system. I am not saying don't take reasonable precaution, I am of the opinion based on what I have seen of the statistics that cancelling the NCAA tournament, suspending sport season, etc. are being overly cautious.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 13, 2020, 10:34:39 AM
As I mentioned when I said we almost got quarantined, my wife is an office manager for a small internal medicine practice.

They've already said that no sick patients will be allowed in the office. When doing all "reminder" calls for patients they're asking whether there are any symptoms of sickness and if so the patients are to stay home (if not severe) and go to urgent care (if severe), but are not being seen in the office. 

They're talking about keeping the office physically closed while this blows over and moving to a tele-med operation. One of the doctors also works in the hospital part of the week and I think she's worried that not only might she be affected, but she could possibly put the rest of the staff in danger, so they're trying to take this pretty seriously. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 13, 2020, 10:40:23 AM
This is the problem. I truly believe this.

Oh, and don't get in the way of one of their "convoy" people trains. They'll run your ass over and not be sorry.
Totally different expectations of courtesy, and proximity, in many Asian nations.  It's just cultural.

First time I noticed it was during a high school trip to Hawaii.  At the time, it was mostly Japanese tourists (they practically owned the island of Oahu in the 80s/early 90s), although now Chinese tourists are also prevalent there.  The major difference was in waiting for access to confined spaces.  For them, waiting for an elevator, they push up against one another and past each other, in an effort to get to the front.  Then, the moment the elevator doors open, nobody is waiting for the folks on the elevator to get off first, it's just a complete free-for-all with people trying to get off, while being pushed and shoved around by people trying to get on.  In American and most Western cultures, that's rude behavior.  For them, it's simple, daily life.
Yeah, it's cultural. My wife's first experience with this was 2 years ago in France. At Versailles she had a little Chinese lady crowding and pushing her all along the tour and was getting EXTREMELY annoyed by it, and then of course there's the melee that occurs trying to get anywhere near the Mona Lisa at the Louvre. 

Having traveled and been more accustomed to that I almost didn't notice, but when I realized how stabby she was getting, I had to mention to her that the lady wasn't doing anything considered "rude" in Chinese culture--it's just different. I don't think it made her any happier, but we avoided an international incident lol ;-) 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on March 13, 2020, 10:59:39 AM
The Chinese guy seated next to us at dinner after Christmas Eve Mass only stopped sucking on his vape pen long enough to smoke 3 cigarettes. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 13, 2020, 11:00:00 AM
So the winery event next weekend was canceled, as well as another event we'd planned in Paso, so we've canceled our hotel and won't be traveling. 

We had plans to go to the theater last night, and my wife was just not feeling it. So after sitting on hold with the theater trying to exchange tickets for ~$5 minutes, I gave up and figured if we lost the ticket money I'd just deal with it. About an hour later we got a notification that all performances (including ours) were canceled. 

So far my autistic son who is in a public school program hasn't had any change to the school routine as there has been no official guidance here in OC to close schools. But my other two kids, who are in a charter school, will now be out of school starting Monday through the end of what would be their normal Spring Break, and return April 15. So 4 weeks off. Since they're a charter, they're already saying they will likely extend the school year a few weeks in June to make up the time. 

But as they say, this is a fast-moving situation, so who knows what else may change in the next 24...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 13, 2020, 11:00:17 AM
My daughter woke up with a fever so I guess we are in quarantine mode now.
Good luck, my friend.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 13, 2020, 11:10:26 AM
most possibly no correlation but..........

Italy's national health service known as Servizio Sanitario Nazionale and of course China's health service run by the governments

I'd guess their issues were more about being blindsided than anything
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 13, 2020, 11:16:50 AM
Oh and bwar, this is the line at my closest Costco this morning, at 9:30 AM, before they opened at 10.  The door is way up there in front.  This is the back of the line. I wasn't there and didn't take the picture, thankk goodness.  You mentioned that y'all had your Costco panic buy weeks ago, and actually so did we.  But this is more.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200313/c5e8d1b3063112e0b28b0c0e27494b36.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 13, 2020, 11:18:44 AM
you folks do have other options than Costco???

I bought toilet paper at the grocery store for $3.99 last night - one package
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2020, 11:19:27 AM
My daughter woke up with a fever so I guess we are in quarantine mode now.
Good luck buddy. Keep us posted.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2020, 11:22:19 AM
This is when the wife will get the point about having a hand-held shower head, that was a must-have item for me. Heh.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 13, 2020, 11:29:27 AM
Oh and bwar, this is the line at my closest Costco this morning, at 9:30 AM, before they opened at 10.  The door is way up there in front.  This is the back of the line. I wasn't there and didn't take the picture, thankk goodness.  You mentioned that y'all had your Costco panic buy weeks ago, and actually so did we.  But this is more.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200313/c5e8d1b3063112e0b28b0c0e27494b36.jpg)
I've heard of similar lines at opening from my wife, who has seen the pictures on the local FB community group. 

I went about lunchtime yesterday, and it was busy but not in a state of panic. 

I know I've made the argument *many* times that humans like to believe we're rational beings, and that we're not anywhere close, and I'll add this to my [ever-growing] evidence list in favor of my position.

The worst thing about this is that it is self-fueling. My wife is worried about the ability to get TP. Not because she doesn't think we have enough, but because she's worried enough other people are worried that we won't be able to get it when we need it. She's not "stand outside in line at Costco before they open" worried, but she did buy extra TP at Target last week even though we already had about a 4-5 week supply. 

I think there are a more than a few people who are in the line in your picture thinking "wow, amazing how crazy all these OTHER people in this line are--but I'm just being prudent!"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 13, 2020, 11:33:17 AM
FYI this was from two days ago, but I think it's clear that the number of reported and confirmed cases is nowhere even remotely close to accurate...

(https://www.sciencealert.com/images/2020-03/corona-virus-tests-8-countries.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on March 13, 2020, 11:49:04 AM
My revelation of the other day: the internet--specifically social media--is really good at spreading misinformation and mass hysteria, and pretty weak at spreading useful, fact-based information.

Which makes me appreciate this crowd all the more. Sure, we disagree--that's kind of the point--but most of the time we do it without hysteria (misinformation, like claiming Austin is a habitable city, happens, but what are you going to do).

Kudos. If only our little slice of the internet could spread to other outlets.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 13, 2020, 12:03:01 PM
I will guess that if the toilet paper plants work overtime for a week or so, they can easily catch up with demand

butt, then they won't sell hardly any TP after the scare for months
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2020, 12:04:53 PM
I will guess that if the toilet paper plants work overtime for a week or so, they can easily catch up with demand

butt, then they won't sell hardly any TP after the scare for months
Heh. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 13, 2020, 12:04:57 PM
My revelation of the other day: the internet--specifically social media--is really good at spreading misinformation and mass hysteria, and pretty weak at spreading useful, fact-based information.

Which makes me appreciate this crowd all the more. Sure, we disagree--that's kind of the point--but most of the time we do it without hysteria (misinformation, like claiming Austin is a habitable city, happens, but what are you going to do).

Kudos. If only our little slice of the internet could spread to other outlets.

I actually laughed out loud!

And I completely agree with you.  When one of his football players at Texas tweeted something really stupid that brought unnecessary heat onto himself, Charlie Strong notoriously remarked, "Twitter will be the end of us all."

He might be right...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 13, 2020, 12:14:46 PM
My revelation of the other day: the internet--specifically social media--is really good at spreading misinformation and mass hysteria, and pretty weak at spreading useful, fact-based information.

Which makes me appreciate this crowd all the more. Sure, we disagree--that's kind of the point--but most of the time we do it without hysteria (misinformation, like claiming Austin is a habitable city, happens, but what are you going to do).

Kudos. If only our little slice of the internet could spread to other outlets.
Way ahead of you on social media. I think it's ruining our social interactions, not enhancing them.

Also regarding this place... My tagline at Hammer & Rails [advertising cfb51] calls it "The most reasonable college football forum on the internet." I stand by that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2020, 12:17:13 PM
"We" seem to "run off" he ridiculous "fans", at times to our entertainment detriment.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2020, 12:32:04 PM
We are not just college football. We are everything.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 13, 2020, 12:34:41 PM
This is the problem. I truly believe this.

Oh, and don't get in the way of one of their "convoy" people trains. They'll run your ass over and not be sorry.
Introduce them to Mr Smith and Mr Wesson - it's the American Way.Unless of course you're in Italy then just launch a loogie
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 13, 2020, 12:40:52 PM
My daughter woke up with a fever so I guess we are in quarantine mode now.
Good Luck Sam,it's not unusual to get colds this time of year with the temperature change.Keep us posted
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2020, 12:52:15 PM
All this likely will dampen the frequency of folks getting flu and colds.

I am guessing we need another week or so to get a decent read on this.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2020, 01:33:16 PM
(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90244881_4287199304639254_5224974573400752128_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQma6Pftha1O6Mj0FOG789jkYKR1VOSBXIXAxMsg-lNG7lgfzElQzpT7PTItC-BjN1nPr2HNHB6j1g3Df0dspdhg&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=85222a90a31b0008faa33d99f52542b9&oe=5E8EDF38)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 13, 2020, 01:51:27 PM
Yes that is exactly what I said. I know you are not stupid, so I guess you choose to just not read what I said.

I have never said ignore the virus, I have said we are over reacting to the danger that it poses due to the hysteria being presented by others.
This isn't some guessing game where the consequence of being wrong is equal, whether you're wrong above or below the line.  
If we're too cautious, zero additional deaths will occur and it would have wasted some money.
If we're wrong the other way, it would cause unknown numbers of deaths and would cost more money in the long run.
.
So in this situation of the great unknown, it's an easy choice of which way to be wrong on - we must be cautious.  It's not even a choice.  No, the masses aren't responding well, but it's due to so much being unknown (ie - lack of testing) and not because they're overly cautious.  The masses are stupid and animalistic and prone to such behavior - it's predictable.  
Prudent cautiousness is what the situation calls for.  And no matter what anyone's opinion of Trump is, we can all agree he doesn't possess the capacity to influence anyone with cautiousness, nor prudence.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 13, 2020, 02:12:14 PM
My school district is saying we're coming back on Monday, as scheduled.  We're on spring break this week.
.
I expect that message to change in the next couple of days.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2020, 02:14:53 PM
Our schools just shut it down. College too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 13, 2020, 02:24:19 PM
This isn't some guessing game where the consequence of being wrong is equal, whether you're wrong above or below the line. 
If we're too cautious, zero additional deaths will occur and it would have wasted some money.
If we're wrong the other way, it would cause unknown numbers of deaths and would cost more money in the long run.
So in this situation of the great unknown, it's an easy choice of which way to be wrong on - we must be cautious.  
I see your point, but "it would have wasted some money" is a little bit of a bigger issue than perhaps is being understood.  

It's always a balancing act. We have thousands of highway deaths, but we don't set speed limits at 5 mph to counteract this. That would be an overreaction, and the damaged caused in commute, shipping, etc times would destroy the chance of having an economy. 

We've basically voluntarily shut down a huge portion of our economy for the next month. We WILL see business fail over this. We WILL see people out of work, possibly unable to make their rent/car/utility payments. The pain point is going to be significant. It's not just "wall street". It'll be seen on main street too. 

Maybe the death toll if we didn't would be SO huge that it was more than worth it. But we don't know what the death toll would be, and so you can't simply say that no reaction is an overreaction if it saves lives. 

The optimal balance point is not zero deaths. That sounds rude as $&#@ to say, but it simply isn't. Just as we don't shut down our entire economy every year for the flu, which kills tens of thousands a year in this country alone. 

I'm hoping we're making the right decision here. The downside is if we are successful in staving this off, the death toll will be low, and then a bunch of people will be saying "well we obviously overreacted because the death toll was so low" while others will say "if we hadn't done this the death toll would have been huge" and the problem is that we don't know which group is right.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on March 13, 2020, 02:33:26 PM
I see your point, but "it would have wasted some money" is a little bit of a bigger issue than perhaps is being understood. 

It's always a balancing act. We have thousands of highway deaths, but we don't set speed limits at 5 mph to counteract this. That would be an overreaction, and the damaged caused in commute, shipping, etc times would destroy the chance of having an economy.

We've basically voluntarily shut down a huge portion of our economy for the next month. We WILL see business fail over this. We WILL see people out of work, possibly unable to make their rent/car/utility payments. The pain point is going to be significant. It's not just "wall street". It'll be seen on main street too.

Maybe the death toll if we didn't would be SO huge that it was more than worth it. But we don't know what the death toll would be, and so you can't simply say that no reaction is an overreaction if it saves lives.

The optimal balance point is not zero deaths. That sounds rude as $&#@ to say, but it simply isn't. Just as we don't shut down our entire economy every year for the flu, which kills tens of thousands a year in this country alone.

I'm hoping we're making the right decision here. The downside is if we are successful in staving this off, the death toll will be low, and then a bunch of people will be saying "well we obviously overreacted because the death toll was so low" while others will say "if we hadn't done this the death toll would have been huge" and the problem is that we don't know which group is right. 
So in this case, it would be logical to listen to our medical professionals and epidemiologists?

Again, there are obviously balances all over. 

One interesting one was about schools. If you close them, you might take a chunk of your medical staff out of circulation for childcare reasons. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 13, 2020, 02:34:22 PM
I see your point, but "it would have wasted some money" is a little bit of a bigger issue than perhaps is being understood. 

It's always a balancing act. We have thousands of highway deaths, but we don't set speed limits at 5 mph to counteract this. That would be an overreaction, and the damaged caused in commute, shipping, etc times would destroy the chance of having an economy.

We've basically voluntarily shut down a huge portion of our economy for the next month. We WILL see business fail over this. We WILL see people out of work, possibly unable to make their rent/car/utility payments. The pain point is going to be significant. It's not just "wall street". It'll be seen on main street too.

Maybe the death toll if we didn't would be SO huge that it was more than worth it. But we don't know what the death toll would be, and so you can't simply say that no reaction is an overreaction if it saves lives.

The optimal balance point is not zero deaths. That sounds rude as $&#@ to say, but it simply isn't. Just as we don't shut down our entire economy every year for the flu, which kills tens of thousands a year in this country alone.

I'm hoping we're making the right decision here. The downside is if we are successful in staving this off, the death toll will be low, and then a bunch of people will be saying "well we obviously overreacted because the death toll was so low" while others will say "if we hadn't done this the death toll would have been huge" and the problem is that we don't know which group is right. 
Very well stated. While I hope we are doing everything we can to prevent people from dying, destroying our economy to do so is NOT the answer. A good economy saves countless lives and helps to extend both life expediencies and the quality of life in general. As you say, there has to be balance in whatever we do. If we are not cognoscente of how our actions or the government actions negatively affect the economy, it could make the situation considerably worse.   
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 13, 2020, 02:37:38 PM
So in this case, it would be logical to listen to our medical professionals and epidemiologists?
Yes. But I think that some folks (like my kids' school) are going well beyond what our medical professionals and epidemiologists are saying. 

I don't believe their saying that all of modern life needs to come to a halt and the entire country should shelter-in-place for 2 weeks. They're saying that we should avoid very large crowds and gatherings to reduce spread, wash our hands, and otherwise just follow good practices.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 13, 2020, 02:38:45 PM
Yes. But I think that some folks (like my kids' school) are going well beyond what our medical professionals and epidemiologists are saying.

I don't believe their saying that all of modern life needs to come to a halt and the entire country should shelter-in-place for 2 weeks. They're saying that we should avoid very large crowds and gatherings to reduce spread, wash our hands, and otherwise just follow good practices.
Ehhh, what would you call a large school???
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2020, 02:50:32 PM
C'mon guys.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 13, 2020, 03:10:55 PM
I'm looking forward to all of this proactive thinking working, then the naysayers saying, "see, told you it was no big deal." 
That'll be my favoirte.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 13, 2020, 03:17:37 PM
I'm looking forward to all of this proactive thinking working, then the naysayers saying, "see, told you it was no big deal."
That'll be my favoirte.
Who are the naysayers?   Where? What are “ they” saying. Or are they just figments of your imagination?  Enlighten us?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2020, 03:58:37 PM
The wife needed a prescription at Kroger so I figured I'd pick up a few items, the essentials like a big foam cowboy hat.  The parking lot was full, first sign.  There were no carts.  The store is about half empty  I did get some milk.  There were large sections completely bare, often of odd things like meat (almost bare).  No TP at all, we were there yesterday and they were fully stocked except TP.

I think this is a serious situation, but "we" are going to feel foolish with a year's supply of TP in our houses.  I'm surprised there hasn't been a run on gasoline, I guess that is next.  Supposedly there is only enough gasoline at the stations to fill up ten percent of the cars on the road.  I was here in 2004 when the metro area was OUT of gasoline, not lines, not high prices, OUT, 6 million people (5 million back then) and no gas this side of Tennessee.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on March 13, 2020, 03:59:11 PM
My revelation of the other day: the internet--specifically social media--is really good at spreading misinformation and mass hysteria, and pretty weak at spreading useful, fact-based information.

Which makes me appreciate this crowd all the more. Sure, we disagree--that's kind of the point--but most of the time we do it without hysteria (misinformation, like claiming Austin is a habitable city, happens, but what are you going to do).

Kudos. If only our little slice of the internet could spread to other outlets.
I read this, and my friend, I have to disagree.

The internet and even social media are wonderful at spreading useful, fact-based information. Both things are great at it. But the issue is how we process it. There really isn't nearly as much misinformation as there is fact-based information, but the former is often amplified in such a way that it catches a lot of attention. 

It does have the ability to bring together people with problematic worldviews and let them fester. It does allow a more amplified version of some of the worst kinds of confirmation bias. But it's not like TV or newspapers in their times didn't spread hysteria or even misinformation (stranger danger is a lie, never forget). 

Anyway, it's a way to spread information. Most of it is fact-based. Much of it is useful. But the other stuff is a problem, maybe an intractable one. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 13, 2020, 04:03:52 PM
I'm looking forward to looking back on all of this
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on March 13, 2020, 04:05:24 PM
This isn't some guessing game where the consequence of being wrong is equal, whether you're wrong above or below the line. 
If we're too cautious, zero additional deaths will occur and it would have wasted some money.
If we're wrong the other way, it would cause unknown numbers of deaths and would cost more money in the long run.
.
So in this situation of the great unknown, it's an easy choice of which way to be wrong on - we must be cautious.  It's not even a choice.  No, the masses aren't responding well, but it's due to so much being unknown (ie - lack of testing) and not because they're overly cautious.  The masses are stupid and animalistic and prone to such behavior - it's predictable. 
Prudent cautiousness is what the situation calls for.  And no matter what anyone's opinion of Trump is, we can all agree he doesn't possess the capacity to influence anyone with cautiousness, nor prudence. 

This is where you are wrong. Over Cautiousness will cost people jobs, livelihood, money, retirement funds. Being overly cautious will cause the economy to go into a temporary recess that is not a matter of how sound the economy is. Tell the people whose living depends on the income from working sporting events, etc. that being overly cautiousness doesn't hurt. 

And I agree Prudent cautiousness is what the situation calls for, however shutting down all these events, etc. is not "prudent" in my opinion. 

I know it is not one to one equivalent but with the H1N1 60M in the USA got it. 212K were hospitalized, 12K died. Covid-19 is nowhere near these numbers in the US. Where was the massive shutdowns then? Like all of these things in my lifetime, the virus runs it course, people take prudent precautions. People get sick, some die, but society continues without a gigantic disruption to society. 

Sorry, but I am amazed how you seem to know what is good for the "masses" You are superior in your judgement then the Stupid and animalistic hoi polloi. Hate to say but typical elitism, we know what is good for you better than you know yourself. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 13, 2020, 04:48:00 PM
I read this, and my friend, I have to disagree.

The internet and even social media are wonderful at spreading useful, fact-based information. Both things are great at it. But the issue is how we process it. There really isn't nearly as much misinformation as there is fact-based information, but the former is often amplified in such a way that it catches a lot of attention.

It does have the ability to bring together people with problematic worldviews and let them fester. It does allow a more amplified version of some of the worst kinds of confirmation bias. But it's not like TV or newspapers in their times didn't spread hysteria or even misinformation (stranger danger is a lie, never forget).

Anyway, it's a way to spread information. Most of it is fact-based. Much of it is useful. But the other stuff is a problem, maybe an intractable one.
I agree that most info is based in fact, but much of it stops there with just the base and goes off willy nilly and although it had a base it is pure misinformation.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 13, 2020, 04:48:28 PM
I'm looking forward to looking back on all of this
Amen, Brother!


I'll drink to that
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 13, 2020, 05:10:38 PM
Spoke too soon, perhaps. One local school district just announced closure and I expect my son's to announce within 1-2 hours. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on March 13, 2020, 05:47:37 PM
I'm looking forward to looking back on all of this
I was gonna say "Oh God why?" because what good is most of this doing?

But then I realized you might mean in terms of just getting past it, which would be nice. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2020, 05:58:02 PM
The Unknown.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 13, 2020, 06:03:10 PM
Oh, and there's about 57 million K-12 students in the U.S.  I guess many will get sick and ho-hum, some will die.  Just as long as it's not an inconvenience.
I'm pretty sure we're not closing schools to save the children. The good thing about this one (relative to influenza) is that it seems to spare the kids. 

We're closing schools because kids are wonderfully efficient disease vectors. They're like little febreze bottles full of germs, and schools are where they share the germs between them. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2020, 07:07:43 PM
Football, and sports, is a thing that takes us away from Reality (which often is unpleasant).

The wife and I walked up to the Atlanta Botanical Garden today (which is a gem).  We were there 6 days ago and the changes are immense, it's fantastic.  Spring and all that portends.  Printemps.  The High Museum of Art has closed due to this mess.  Bummer.

I'm going to buy on line some gift cards to restaurants we like locally to support them.  Try to help out the nonchain places out there, the small business guys trying to work hard and make it.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 13, 2020, 10:20:55 PM
I didn’t fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 13, 2020, 10:27:14 PM
I wonder if someone had told Henry Ford that over a million people would die annually in traffic incidents if he'd have started over, building something else.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 13, 2020, 10:54:06 PM
Considering how it changed global economy,convenience and pleasure it's an unfortunate trade off.Ask all the people who made it to a hospital on time who otherwise wouldn't have
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 13, 2020, 11:02:52 PM
I wonder if someone had told Henry Ford that over a million people would die annually in traffic incidents if he'd have started over, building something else.
He wouldn't have invented the assembly line? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on March 13, 2020, 11:37:28 PM
I agree that most info is based in fact, but much of it stops there with just the base and goes off willy nilly and although it had a base it is pure misinformation. 
A. I am confused by this, because at this start it's fact based and then end is misinformation based and I can't tell where one starts and the other ends (oh God is that the point?!)

B. By volume, there is a lot of misinformation, but that's because the volume of information in the internet is basically unfathomable. Just huge swaths of raw information. Shakespeare and Sartre, calculus and chemistry, huge chunks of most of the things you learned in elementary and high school are available. More news than has ever been available, live looks into things, the ability to communicate in unprecedented ways. Dynamic housing prices, the ability to procure and offer goods and services with ease. There's so much, we have trouble figuring out what we need to process. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 14, 2020, 07:18:17 AM
I'm pretty sure we're not closing schools to save the children. The good thing about this one (relative to influenza) is that it seems to spare the kids.

We're closing schools because kids are wonderfully efficient disease vectors. They're like little febreze bottles full of germs, and schools are where they share the germs between them.
I simply refer to kids as mosquitos. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 14, 2020, 09:38:26 AM
I simply refer to kids as mosquitos.
and dogs as hairy naked men
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2020, 10:04:40 AM
We have humans out there buying every roll of TP they can find.  The only rational explanation is herd instinct and panic.  

They could be buying up coffee or beer or some consumable that one might need more of in two weeks and not be able to get, or gasoline.  Toilet paper?  Even if you run out there are options of course.  If you run out of coffee and beer and can't go outside ...

Bread I can see to some extent.  Milk.  Kroger had plenty of milk.  Milk does go bad of course.  Kroger had plenty of eggs Thursday and were out yesterday, completely.

"We" are not rational when herd instinct takes over and a crisis hits.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on March 14, 2020, 10:26:31 AM
I bought extra toilet paper two weeks ago when Japan was facing shortages. Stocked up on groceries yesterday. Stopped in today and it seemed everyone was getting bottled water. Knock on wood, but I don't anticipate needing bottled water.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 14, 2020, 10:31:39 AM
my tap water is good
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 14, 2020, 10:36:35 AM
We have excellent tap water too.

I have not shopped at all, although I might go to get some basics, like eggs and cheese. There is always at least 2 weeks of food in the freezer, so I think we are fine.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 14, 2020, 10:53:21 AM
our political system and our filthy politicians are in a bad place
If we can get unscrupulous Wall Street CEOs in the same room with them - I have some ideas
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 14, 2020, 11:21:45 AM
In addition to getting all of our points back to our BCU Rewards account for our flight to Lima, American just refunded all of the money I paid for premium seat upgrades. I like that American stepped up here, even though the upgrades were supposedly non-refundable. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2020, 11:27:01 AM
I think we are most dependent on electricity of all things provided externally.  Water can become critical as well obviously.  In theory with electricity we can pump from a well if we have such a thing.  That was a huge advance for rural homes in the 1930s.  My Dad was born in a house that was no different from a house in 1700, basically, in terms of having anything of any note, my Mom the same.  She commented that electricity was huge for them, aside from lighting they now had running water.  That house was on a cistern when I was a kid, the switched to well water later which tasted funny.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2020, 06:50:19 PM
What's your favorite beer in times like this?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on March 14, 2020, 06:58:57 PM
What's your favorite beer in times like this?
It's seasonal but Great Lakes makes a really good one in Conway's Irish Ale. My favorite beer and it's out now
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2020, 07:01:42 PM
I like most GL stuff.  And Goose Island.  But there are so many local options now ....   and Sam Adams is solid.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 14, 2020, 07:01:56 PM
What's your favorite beer in times like this?
Stella.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 14, 2020, 07:09:15 PM
Scotch.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 14, 2020, 08:36:40 PM
What's your favorite beer in times like this?
Corona.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on March 14, 2020, 11:12:20 PM
This thread should be quarantined. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 15, 2020, 12:03:16 AM
So my school district sent out a notice that we're closed Monday, a day after sending out a notice that we were going to be open.
Fun.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Hawkinole on March 15, 2020, 02:16:03 AM
What town? Just wondering. We are in a town of 5,000. Wife works of school. I think closure will be delayed as long as possible. There is not coronavirus here, but the County Attorney just flew to Fla. for a family fly to event, which surprised me. The virus will be with us within a week.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 15, 2020, 07:06:29 AM
UGA said it would be open after Spring Break and within a day said it would be closed.  Information is arriving so quickly this doesn't surprise me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 15, 2020, 07:55:23 AM
Houston ISD and most surrounding have extended spring break by a week.

Austin ISD and surrounding, which are currently just beginning spring break, have not yet announced any extensions. But I'll be surprised if they don't. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 15, 2020, 10:49:09 AM
This topic was under quarantine for a while, and has now been sanitized. Please post responsibly. Thank you.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 15, 2020, 11:01:15 AM
What town? Just wondering. We are in a town of 5,000. Wife works of school. I think closure will be delayed as long as possible. There is not coronavirus here, but the County Attorney just flew to Fla. for a family fly to event, which surprised me. The virus will be with us within a week.
I'm in urban Phoenix.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on March 15, 2020, 11:05:35 AM
Scotch.
There's a great show on Amazon Prime in the subject of Scotch.  Definitely makes me want to visit Scotland, but not to pay their retail prices for a dram.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 15, 2020, 04:29:12 PM
Scotch.
I've been doing Sober January for the past 2.5 months.  I'm not sure that's going to last much longer in the face of this pandemic. 

So yeah, Scotch will do nicely.  The bottle of Lagavulin my bro gave me for Christmas is just sitting there, unopened, waiting for me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 15, 2020, 05:48:50 PM
Lagovulin is "interesting" and distinctive stuff.  I picked up a bottle of Woodford rye whiskey.  The clerk asked me if I knew it was rye and not bourbon, which I appreciated.  I like their rye quite a lot, it is slightly different.

I like vanilla in whiskey and a touch in wine, but not beer.

Spring is springing around here, a lot of trees are coming out.  Tulips are all over.  It should be a nice time of year.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 15, 2020, 05:54:22 PM
I am fixing spaghetti sauce, simple stuff, the wife didn't buy onions and bell pepper when she was out, no biggee.  I fixed chuck roast "stew" in the hot pot Thursday and we still have left overs.

I may journey out to Kroger tomorrow early to see the damage.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on March 15, 2020, 05:59:46 PM
Trying to decide if a nap is in order. Have a couple of things to do, but they’ll probably keep.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 15, 2020, 06:01:38 PM
I'm reading a tome about John Marshall.

(https://i.imgur.com/BqTjGpV.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 15, 2020, 06:54:26 PM
Lagovulin is "interesting" and distinctive stuff.  I picked up a bottle of Woodford rye whiskey.  The clerk asked me if I knew it was rye and not bourbon, which I appreciated.  I like their rye quite a lot, it is slightly different.

I like vanilla in whiskey and a touch in wine, but not beer.

Spring is springing around here, a lot of trees are coming out.  Tulips are all over.  It should be a nice time of year.
Winds has been blowing out of the North for two days.It has been sunny in the 30s but with the wind C-C-C-COLD
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: DevilFroggy on March 15, 2020, 08:01:24 PM
Currently working out of Ft Worth till mid April, essentially living with my girlfriend for the time being. Visited my 69 y/o father a few times, he's doing good. Ex wife's job will be letting her work from home so the school's in Phoenix getting cancelled aren't too much of an issue for us. 

Route I'm working with the RR is Ft Worth south to Temple, interesting city. Driven through quite a few times but never actually visited.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 15, 2020, 08:33:08 PM
Route I'm working with the RR is Ft Worth south to Temple, interesting city. Driven through quite a few times but never actually visited.
played Sammons Golf Course in Temple back in January - enjoyable
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on March 15, 2020, 08:42:30 PM
Currently working out of Ft Worth till mid April, essentially living with my girlfriend for the time being. Visited my 69 y/o father a few times, he's doing good. Ex wife's job will be letting her work from home so the school's in Phoenix getting cancelled aren't too much of an issue for us.

Route I'm working with the RR is Ft Worth south to Temple, interesting city. Driven through quite a few times but never actually visited.
Heim forever and ever. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 15, 2020, 09:13:25 PM
does the train make a stop in West for the Kolaches?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: DevilFroggy on March 15, 2020, 09:26:59 PM
does the train make a stop in West for the Kolaches?
I wish. Unfortunately our tracks don't go through West. At about West's latitude our tracks are 28 miles to the west near Clifton.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 15, 2020, 10:37:48 PM
My mom was born and raised in Temple, spent a lot of time there visiting my grandparents over the years.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on March 16, 2020, 12:32:22 AM
A. I am confused by this, because at this start it's fact based and then end is misinformation based and I can't tell where one starts and the other ends (oh God is that the point?!)

B. By volume, there is a lot of misinformation, but that's because the volume of information in the internet is basically unfathomable. Just huge swaths of raw information. Shakespeare and Sartre, calculus and chemistry, huge chunks of most of the things you learned in elementary and high school are available. More news than has ever been available, live looks into things, the ability to communicate in unprecedented ways. Dynamic housing prices, the ability to procure and offer goods and services with ease. There's so much, we have trouble figuring out what we need to process.
But none of that is Twitter.
The critique is not that the internet is a disaster, but that social media is (are) a disaster.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on March 16, 2020, 12:40:03 AM
Currently working out of Ft Worth till mid April, essentially living with my girlfriend for the time being. Visited my 69 y/o father a few times, he's doing good. Ex wife's job will be letting her work from home so the school's in Phoenix getting cancelled aren't too much of an issue for us.

Route I'm working with the RR is Ft Worth south to Temple, interesting city. Driven through quite a few times but never actually visited.
DF:

IIRC, Temple has a nicely preserved AT&SF 4-6-2 "Pacific" steam locomotive on display.

I think Temple was a major RR hub at one point.  Is that the case today?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2020, 06:36:53 AM
All bars and restaurants in Illinois have been closed by order from JB.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 16, 2020, 08:21:31 AM
All bars and restaurants in Illinois have been closed by order from JB.
Same-same in Ohio
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on March 16, 2020, 08:56:31 AM
But none of that is Twitter.
The critique is not that the internet is a disaster, but that social media is (are) a disaster.
The conversation started with "the internet--specifically social media--is really good at spreading misinformation and mass hysteria, and pretty weak at spreading useful, fact-based information."

Social media is worse to be sure. It asks more of its consumers, and we are not so discerning. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2020, 10:20:53 AM
I like OUR social media. As in, this site.

And.. I've got a slight fever. 99.8. F'ing awesome.

My partners and I just agreed on a conference call to become a work-from-home company for the time-being.

I'm cancelling next week's trip to Florida. 

Dammit.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2020, 10:28:34 AM
When is a fever considered to be high? I've never asked anyone this. I don't remember the last time I had one.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: DevilFroggy on March 16, 2020, 10:31:07 AM
DF:

IIRC, Temple has a nicely preserved AT&SF 4-6-2 "Pacific" steam locomotive on display.

I think Temple was a major RR hub at one point.  Is that the case today?

Yeah from my understanding Temple was a somewhat major terminal with the ATSF, and while not as major today with the BNSF it's still a big switching yard and crew change point.

I'll keep an eye out for that steam engine next time I'm down there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2020, 10:38:15 AM
When is a fever considered to be high? I've never asked anyone this. I don't remember the last time I had one.
For adults, usually above 101°F means you're sick.  Above 103° is "really sick".  The 98.6°F figure was just a conversion from the much less precise figure of 38°C.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/fever/symptoms-causes/syc-20352759

 (https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/fever/symptoms-causes/syc-20352759)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on March 16, 2020, 10:41:07 AM
I like OUR social media. As in, this site.

And.. I've got a slight fever. 99.8. F'ing awesome.

My partners and I just agreed on a conference call to become a work-from-home company for the time-being.

I'm cancelling next week's trip to Florida.

Dammit.
This is a good social media.

Also, I can't recall, y'all are going to the keys or nearby? If so, you get to deal with an annual version of something like this (the is this that serious question) in hurricane season. I'm in a hurricane-adjacent area, and it's a dang thing. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2020, 10:46:31 AM
Punta Gorda. Thanks for the fever info. I'm going to proceed with caution and stay home for a while.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2020, 10:49:48 AM
Atlanta is here because in 1837 a rail spur was built south from Chattanooga.  It stopped at a place called Terminus, which later was named Marthasville after the governor's daughter.  An east-west line was then built that connected and the name Atlanta came to be because of the Western & Atlantic RR Co.  The downtown streets are angled at a 45° from the rest of the streets (aside from meandering) because of how the RRs ran.  The town grew to a population of 10,000 by 1860.

(https://i.imgur.com/Y82s7U5.png)



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2020, 10:50:44 AM
Punta Gorda. Thanks for the fever info. I'm going to proceed with caution and stay home for a while.
Yeah, if you stay above 100°F, I'd suggest some Tylenol to reduce it.  Tylenol is not good for your liver though, so don't drink.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 16, 2020, 11:00:30 AM
Yeah, if you stay above 100°F, I'd suggest some Tylenol to reduce it.  Tylenol is not good for your liver though, so don't drink.
Drinking's not good for your liver, either. ;)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2020, 11:00:54 AM
the email I got this morning says fever of (100.4° F [37.8° C] or higher
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2020, 11:01:36 AM
Yeah, if you stay above 100°F, I'd suggest some Tylenol to reduce it.  Tylenol is not good for your liver though, so don't drink.
not the only reason I rarely take Tylenol or any other painkiller
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2020, 11:02:15 AM
the email I got this morning says fever of (100.4° F [37.8° C] or higher
From where?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2020, 11:02:34 AM
Tylenol is uniquely bad for the liver.  The NSAIDs are not (aspirin, naproxen, ibuprofen).  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2020, 11:03:54 AM
the email I got this morning says fever of (100.4° F [37.8° C] or higher
101.4 Fahrenheit = (101.4 - 32) × 5⁄9 = (69.4) × 5⁄9 = 38.556 Celsius

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on March 16, 2020, 11:04:50 AM
Yeah from my understanding Temple was a somewhat major terminal with the ATSF, and while not as major today with the BNSF it's still a big switching yard and crew change point.

I'll keep an eye out for that steam engine next time I'm down there.

I got this off the Santa Fe Preserved Locomotives (http://atsf.railfan.net/atsfpres/) site.

3423 (http://atsf.railfan.net/atsfpres/atsf3423.jpg)
4-6-2
Temple, TX, Railroad & Heritage Museum (http://www.rrhm.org/), relocated to new site beside restored Santa Fe Temple station, September 2000.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on March 16, 2020, 11:14:49 AM
Atlanta is here because in 1837 a rail spur was built south from Chattanooga.  It stopped at a place called Terminus, which later was named Marthasville after the governor's daughter.  An east-west line was then built that connected and the name Atlanta came to be because of the Western & Atlantic RR Co.  The downtown streets are angled at a 45° from the rest of the streets (aside from meandering) because of how the RRs ran.  The town grew to a population of 10,000 by 1860.

(https://i.imgur.com/Y82s7U5.png)
Tulsa's downtown streets are similarly angled differently because of the railroad, the St. Louis-San Francisco (a.k.a. "Frisco"), which ran from the ENE to the WSW.  About 30 degrees counterclockwise from a normal N-S/E-W grid.
The Frisco was absorbed in 1980 by the Burlington Northern, which was itself the product of a merger between the Chicago, Burlington & Quincy and the Great Northern, and which later became part of the merger that created the Burlington Northern Santa Fe, now officially the BNSF.
You could write a history of the United State from 1840 to the present through the lens of railroading and you wouldn't miss much.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 16, 2020, 11:20:46 AM
I like OUR social media. As in, this site.

And.. I've got a slight fever. 99.8. F'ing awesome.

My partners and I just agreed on a conference call to become a work-from-home company for the time-being.

I'm cancelling next week's trip to Florida.

Dammit.
Good luck, Badge. Hopefully it's nothing. 99.8 isn't much, as others have mentioned.

If it progresses into a dry cough, sore throat, shortness of breath, that's when the symptoms start aligning with COVID.

My understanding (from my healthcare-adjacent wife) is that acetaminophen is processed through the liver, as is alcohol. Doubling the two puts more aggressive strain on the liver. Ibuprofen is processed through the kidneys, so it has less of a contraindication with alcohol.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on March 16, 2020, 11:26:00 AM
The Tulsa Union Depot is a beautiful art deco structure that now houses the Oklahoma Jazz Hall of Fame.  This is the side facing WSW, where taxis would drop off their passengers.  The bridge at the extreme left goes over the tracks down below.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/78/Tulsa_union_Depot_Modern_pict_2009.jpg)

Tulsa's period of rapid growth was the 1920s, and it was a hotbed of art deco construction.  I have read that at one point Tulsa's downtown had the highest proportion of art deco buildings of any downtown in the country.  But thanks to the "urban renewal" projects of the 1960s and '70s, many of those buildings were torn down and replaced with either insipid modernist structures or, worse, parking lots.  It has taken decades to recover from that period of enthusiastic "out with the old, in with something worse" activity.

When I was in HS, the Union Depot was a derelict building inhabited by bums.  Fortunately, it was saved and restored instead of being razed. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 16, 2020, 11:47:29 AM
Good luck, Badge. Hopefully it's nothing. 99.8 isn't much, as others have mentioned.

If it progresses into a dry cough, sore throat, shortness of breath, that's when the symptoms start aligning with COVID.

My understanding (from my healthcare-adjacent wife) is that acetaminophen is processed through the liver, as is alcohol. Doubling the two puts more aggressive strain on the liver. Ibuprofen is processed through the kidneys, so it has less of a contraindication with alcohol. 
and to complicate things further, there are currently some doctors that believe that NSAIDs (which include ibuprofen and aspirin) are causing complications with COVID19 cases, and that where there are cases of death among the younger populations, NSAIDs might have been involved as well.

So, that's nice, for anyone trying to get through the viral infection and the fever associated with it...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 16, 2020, 11:48:50 AM
and to complicate things further, there are currently some doctors that believe that NSAIDs (which include ibuprofen and aspirin) are causing complications with COVID19 cases, and that where there are cases of death among the younger populations, NSAIDs might have been involved as well.

So, that's nice, for anyone trying to get through the viral infection and the fever associated with it...
Thanks... I hadn't heard that myself, but if I have any symptoms it's definitely something I'll research before taking anything. 

So Badge... Tylenol and no booze for you!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 16, 2020, 11:51:58 AM
Badge would probably rather die! :)

We're still not on complete lockdown here.  If/when it happens, the no-carb diet is over and beer consumption will resume!

But, I'll also have plenty of time to exercise and work off those calories, so...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2020, 11:54:59 AM
and to complicate things further, there are currently some doctors that believe that NSAIDs (which include ibuprofen and aspirin) are causing complications with COVID19 cases, and that where there are cases of death among the younger populations, NSAIDs might have been involved as well.

So, that's nice, for anyone trying to get through the viral infection and the fever associated with it...
that crap is bad for you, not worth the benefits
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2020, 01:20:41 PM
The wife and I are back from a pretty long walk.  We discovered a part of the park we'd never been to before and walked in the Beltline.  I wanted to find out how best to walk to a nice Indian restaurant we found and  were driving to get there.  The pub next door is closed and doing only take out now.  The botanical garden is closed, which is a shame because spring is really springing here now.

The economic hit of all this is going to be severe, I hope it is a V.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 16, 2020, 01:46:17 PM
Good luck, Badge. Hopefully it's nothing. 99.8 isn't much, as others have mentioned.

If it progresses into a dry cough, sore throat, shortness of breath, that's when the symptoms start aligning with COVID.

My understanding (from my healthcare-adjacent wife) is that acetaminophen is processed through the liver, as is alcohol. Doubling the two puts more aggressive strain on the liver. Ibuprofen is processed through the kidneys, so it has less of a contraindication with alcohol. 
Good Luck and you don't have to drink - or so I've been told
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 16, 2020, 01:48:29 PM
We're still not on complete lockdown here.  
Keep Austin weird !!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on March 16, 2020, 01:55:17 PM
Wtf does that even mean, lockdown?   There is no enforcement element, selective businesses are being ordered closed, yes but people are milling around, many places are open.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 16, 2020, 02:42:14 PM
Wtf does that even mean, lockdown?  There is no enforcement element, selective businesses are being ordered closed, yes but people are milling around, many places are open.
Essentially it's tough to truly tell, but here is a story about the restrictions imposed in Italy.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/italy-coronavirus-lockdown-restrictions-200310050125680.html (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/italy-coronavirus-lockdown-restrictions-200310050125680.html)

So yeah, it's not locking everything down 100%. But with the closure of businesses, actual restrictions on "travel"--which I would take to mean intercity rail or air travel--and basically shutting down everything except the hospital and supermarket, people won't have much reason to go out.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2020, 02:55:29 PM
Many food places are drive-thru only here in Phoenix.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2020, 03:00:58 PM
Our daughter in France describes the same kind of lockdown.  They can go out only for bare essentials at the Carrefour or Monoprix.

Every other kind of meeting or gather is banned except I surmise for higher level government meetings and medical professionals.

The economy recovery from all this is going to be ... unpredictable.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 16, 2020, 03:10:55 PM
Many food places are drive-thru only here in Phoenix.
Some of our breweries are going that route here.

Which, I know, sounds terrible...

But instead of having open tasting rooms [ordered to shut down unless they're also restaurants], they're offering growlers/crowlers to go, and several of them have offered drive-up options for people who don't want to walk inside.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 16, 2020, 03:16:40 PM
Wtf does that even mean, lockdown?  There is no enforcement element, selective businesses are being ordered closed, yes but people are milling around, many places are open.
Well, they're able to enforce restaurant, bar, and retail store closings.  You're found open, you're fined or arrested.  That alone would be plenty effective.

No, I don't expect military personnel in tanks forcing all citizens off the streets.  That would actually be counterproductive anyway, as sunlight and fresh air are actually anti-viral.  People NEED to be outside.

But, closing down bars and dine-in restaurants and public gatherings, will certainly eliminate THiS kind of activity, which is part of the point:

(https://images.rove.me/w_740,q_85/xfmkvanmluljmt5zqo12/new-orleans-st-patricks-day.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2020, 03:24:17 PM
A restaurant obviously can be closed by the Board of Health.  Same with bar etc.  We're not shutting down except voluntarily.

Our friend texted us he arrived at ATL and is through immigration etc.  He should be here shortly I reckon, no quarantine.

I imagine he has some stories to tell.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2020, 03:25:22 PM
Just a week ago we were chatting with our Turkish friend who manages one restaurant we like about places to see in Istanbul  Two or three days later I was cancelling everything.  We went from "avoid Italy" to avoid travel entirely.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2020, 04:37:58 PM
hoping the restaurants my daughters work can remain open at least a few more days

if they don't get the money from the employer, they get it from Dad 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 16, 2020, 05:22:54 PM

So instead of Bone Daddy's it's Broke Daddy
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2020, 05:29:17 PM
hoping the restaurants my daughters work can remain open at least a few more days

if they don't get the money from the employer, they get it from Dad
Who is their Dad?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2020, 06:45:21 PM
their Father, FearlessF
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 16, 2020, 07:08:21 PM
Bay Area lockdown until Apr 7: https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/16/bay-area-counties-announce-lockdown-through-april-7/ (https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/16/bay-area-counties-announce-lockdown-through-april-7/)

For @SFBadger96 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=51) and @bayareabadger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1571) and anyone else I'm missing, good luck to you all. 

I suspect you may simply be ~2 days ahead of me for a similar lockdown to be announced in OC, but sorry for all of you who are the first ones to have to go through this... 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2020, 07:13:36 PM
living in the great white north has it's advantages

not many
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on March 16, 2020, 07:20:16 PM
Bay Area lockdown until Apr 7: https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/16/bay-area-counties-announce-lockdown-through-april-7/ (https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/16/bay-area-counties-announce-lockdown-through-april-7/)

For @SFBadger96 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=51) and @bayareabadger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1571) and anyone else I'm missing, good luck to you all.

I suspect you may simply be ~2 days ahead of me for a similar lockdown to be announced in OC, but sorry for all of you who are the first ones to have to go through this...

Yeah. My office had already told us to work from home, and my kids' schools already cancelled classes, so not a big change for me, but SFIrish is in city government/leadership, and she has had a lot to deal with because of how this thing is progressing. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on March 16, 2020, 07:21:28 PM
i've been playing with the page lately... several- well, a LOT of hours in the code of this thing over the last four days... of course it would have taken someone who knows what they're doing an hour or so...... 

any way, the 'profiles' which were a mess actually work now... if you look at someone's profile, hold shift hit refresh to clear out the old stuff.... it's a lot more presentable and usable now.  

i've got a couple little things to do tonight, and i think i'll leave it alone afterward.  don't fix something that isn't broken, right? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on March 16, 2020, 07:32:02 PM
part of the job i did for 18 years and ended last June was planning responses- and part of that was pandemic responses... they were written and then updated ever-so-often (on a schedule, actually) to reflect new advances or tech.... 

this 'response' reflects nothing of those plans.  

it beckons a memory of another 'response' i was part of back at the onset of Iraqi Freedom- we had a team that was responsible for a particular type of response.. well practiced and equipped.. and then one night out of the blue (and just as CENTCOM was arriving with metric tons of brass) that something happened smack dab in the middle of that teams AoR of response.... 

what do you think happened? 

the Captain in charge of that team was instantly 'out ranked' by a Colonel (who's occupation never brought him anywhere near the occupation of the captain) who decided to 'take charge'... who was then outranked by a General... who was immediately outranked by yet another General.... so the 'response' was what we have, technically classified, a 'cluster fuck'.

when the dust cleared so did the brass... the captain had to answer to the base commander (a colonel- all the heavy brass were CENTCOM and not part of the base's PP&PO).... the poor guy was lit up- especially because he didn't know the names of the higher ranking officers (and if he did, which i suspect he did, he wasn't about to throw them under the bus)... of course when CENTCOM caught wind of this meeting, they invited themselves.  

here is the punch line: the guy was beat up in that board meeting by the brass was beat up by the very brass that caused all the trouble but who wouldn't take responsibility for their own actions.  according to the captain, who later confided this to me, their primary interest was "why didn't his team follow procedures?"///

i fear something like this is coming at the tail end of this current thing....     
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 16, 2020, 07:32:56 PM
living in the great white north has it's advantages

not many
Home prices are nice there. I've actually quite enjoyed Omaha when I've been there for work in the past. 

There are advantages to being here, but I'd be lying if I didn't say there weren't a lot of drawbacks too.

Yeah. My office had already told us to work from home, and my kids' schools already cancelled classes, so not a big change for me, but SFIrish is in city government/leadership, and she has had a lot to deal with because of how this thing is progressing.
Yeah, I was already working from home almost 100% since getting the puppy, because that's basically standard in my job. It's only because I happened to be near a major office that I even went in at all. The kids are out of school now but apparently they're working on their remote instruction capabilities so they can at least do SOME work.

My wife's office is closed to patients and they're going to be doing tele-med for the time being. The question is whether they have the infrastructure for her to work from home or not, and they're still trying to figure that out. 

If a month-long lockdown is announced tomorrow after 8:30 (when the kids get transferred to their mom), does that mean I get a month without them in the house? :57:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2020, 08:17:08 PM
On a good note, I have the flu. So much for that vaunted CDC and their flu shot. First time I've ever got one. Second flu for me this season.

WTF. Dammit.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on March 16, 2020, 08:58:53 PM
Who is their Dad?
Zzzziiinnnggg!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2020, 09:17:25 PM
Cincy has a great sense of humor
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on March 16, 2020, 09:18:37 PM
Cincy has a great sense of humor
i know a bunch of guys who haven't figured that out yet, and will therefor strongly disagree with that. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2020, 09:19:42 PM
they obviously don't know him as well as I
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on March 16, 2020, 09:20:40 PM
Bay Area lockdown until Apr 7: https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/16/bay-area-counties-announce-lockdown-through-april-7/ (https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/16/bay-area-counties-announce-lockdown-through-april-7/)

For @SFBadger96 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=51) and @bayareabadger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1571) and anyone else I'm missing, good luck to you all.

I suspect you may simply be ~2 days ahead of me for a similar lockdown to be announced in OC, but sorry for all of you who are the first ones to have to go through this...

I don't live out that way anymore, maybe someday. 

Parents are in the lockdown. I think they'll be OK. My town is not there yet, though we just lost bars and most restaurants. I'm trying to decided when to go get some takeout to support local business and when to rely on the stock of food I spent a bunch of money on the past few days. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2020, 05:41:42 AM
I don't live out that way anymore, maybe someday.

Parents are in the lockdown. I think they'll be OK. My town is not there yet, though we just lost bars and most restaurants. I'm trying to decided when to go get some takeout to support local business and when to rely on the stock of food I spent a bunch of money on the past few days.
I thought about the same thing. Probably going to do takeout tonight.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2020, 07:01:27 AM
The wife and I got what I think was the flu in Hawaii 3 years or so back.  We were in our hotel room basically unable to move very far.  I managed to go downstairs for a couple breakfast rolls and some coffee on Day 2.  It was bad.  It hit very fast, the wife got sick an hour or so before I did.  By Day 3 we were able to get out a bit to eat something (outside).  Long airplane flights often make me sick with something.

I hope Badger has a milder version.  It can be much worse than a cold.

I expect to be going to Kroger later if the neighbor texts me what he needs.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2020, 08:54:20 AM
I feel pretty good. Fever is gone. Just really tired. Couldn't sleep last night, so got out of bed at 4 today. Maybe I'll take a nap later.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on March 17, 2020, 09:00:01 AM
Courts aren't shut down but also not really hearing cases. I plan to be at home for two weeks at least.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2020, 09:05:01 AM
Can you do any work from home?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2020, 09:15:22 AM
About an hour ago, ten or so police cars roared by outside, variously stopping and going, and a large flatbed truck with some item of equipment on it parked just outside, along with some other construction gear.  The street is still close, we had no warning.  I can't get out any other way except by going the wrong way on a one way.

It's still shut and the large piece of equipment is off the flatbed, but I can't see it anywhere.  It looks like maybe they are grinding off the pavement, maybe, but we usually get a warning about that.  Nothing I can find on line.  I see folks walking by so it isn't some public safety issue.  I see a line of dump trucks south of me waiting.

I guess I'm stuck here unless I walk, which I can do of course.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on March 17, 2020, 09:37:19 AM
Courts aren't shut down but also not really hearing cases. I plan to be at home for two weeks at least.
courts shut down here... unless a trial was already going, that is.  they've put a desk at the entrance to the court house where you state your business, and if it isn't important enough you get a little note that said you were there (if you need one) and are sent back home.   yet, my wife (the atty in the house) still has to show up. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2020, 09:43:13 AM
https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/breaking-atlanta-officer-involved-shooting-near-piedmont-park/qIqOhQMq9vEPhKACeu6rvM/ (https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/breaking-atlanta-officer-involved-shooting-near-piedmont-park/qIqOhQMq9vEPhKACeu6rvM/)

The police apparently shot someone behaving erratically and waving a gun about two blocks north of us.  And at the same time, the E-W street outside us is being ground down before paving starts.  People are out walking by apparently unconcerned.  I wife says she heard three loud noises that woke her up, I heard them and thought something fell over on our deck.

The apparent area of the shooting is a very "tony" residential neighborhood.

As usual, the news "reports" are confused, some saying the shooting was on 11th street, others saying north of us.  I'm surprised to see so many pedestrians out walking their dogs and whatnot.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Temp430 on March 17, 2020, 09:56:49 AM
Tom Brady is leaving the Patriots.  It truly is the apocalypses.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on March 17, 2020, 10:01:59 AM
Michigan fans freed from pretending to like the Patriots, like the guards at the end of Wizard of Oz when the witch melts
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2020, 10:08:44 AM
So, the story apparently is some guy was walking north on the street randomly shooting in the air.  He stopped to reload according to one fellow who called the police.  That is why they went tearing by around 8 AM.  There were still people out walking at the time not looking concerned.  They got a lot of police here in a hurry and the street is closed now for about 6 blocks.  One officer was wounded apparently.

At the same time, construction guys were here to grind off a side street, so it was a confusing situation.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2020, 10:11:58 AM
Michigan fans freed from pretending to like the Patriots, like the guards at the end of Wizard of Oz when the witch melts
I was thinking this same thing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on March 17, 2020, 11:35:51 AM
About an hour ago, ten or so police cars roared by outside, variously stopping and going, and a large flatbed truck with some item of equipment on it parked just outside, along with some other construction gear.  The street is still close, we had no warning.  I can't get out any other way except by going the wrong way on a one way.

It's still shut and the large piece of equipment is off the flatbed, but I can't see it anywhere.  It looks like maybe they are grinding off the pavement, maybe, but we usually get a warning about that.  Nothing I can find on line.  I see folks walking by so it isn't some public safety issue.  I see a line of dump trucks south of me waiting.

I guess I'm stuck here unless I walk, which I can do of course.
A. Stay safe.
B. That park near your place is always nice. Hopefully not too crowded. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2020, 11:43:26 AM
The park can get a bit crowded if there are events, or on nice weekend days.  Right now there are few people out that I can see, some, but it's overcast and a bit chilly.

This is the first crime event near us since we moved here.  I was confused because the police cars were going north bound in a hurry and in some confusion, and the initial reports had the incident south of us.  I gather the shooter walked north right by our place.  I could easily have been outside.  He was said to be shooting in the air.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on March 17, 2020, 11:50:48 AM
two observations to share here:

this virus has something to do with attacking people with good teeth.  WV is the safest place to be. 

the Tennessee Vols would have secured an invitation and won the NCAAB tournament this season had it not been cancelled.  IF this extends into football season, ditto. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2020, 12:16:54 PM
The stock market is ... hilarious, in an unfunny way, but funnier today than yesterday.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2020, 12:27:32 PM
was the officer injured by a bullet?  Going up in the air or falling back to the ground (if shooting into the air)

or was he possibly injured by other means?

frickin crime ridden big cities

criminal's actions probably brought on by the stress and hysteria of the virus, perhaps he couldn't find toilet paper
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2020, 12:33:01 PM
Reports say one officer was grazed in the head, treated and released.  He returned fire and killed the suspect.  Another officer was grazed in the foot.

This area is not at all crime ridden.  It's an area of million dollar homes near where he was shot.

https://www.hometownatl.com/search?zoom=12&rect=null&layoutType=grid&page=1&listingSort=RELEVANCE&pageSize=24&purchaseType-For-Sale-Rent=1&Listing-Status-1537347864167=Active&key=Ansley%20Park%2C%20Atlanta%2C%20GA&keywordType=neighborhood&utm_source=bryanshortgoogle&utm_content=ansley%20park%20homes%20for%20sale&gclid=Cj0KCQjw6sHzBRCbARIsAF8FMpUu7YuQE04NjEgh5JX-84QjDUCZ7QmAHElNoKhrbdJlddjwzA3o8MYaAmD9EALw_wcB (https://www.hometownatl.com/search?zoom=12&rect=null&layoutType=grid&page=1&listingSort=RELEVANCE&pageSize=24&purchaseType-For-Sale-Rent=1&Listing-Status-1537347864167=Active&key=Ansley Park%2C Atlanta%2C)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on March 17, 2020, 12:36:11 PM

was the officer injured by a bullet?  Going up in the air or falling back to the ground (if shooting into the air)

or was he possibly injured by other means?

frickin crime ridden big cities

criminal's actions probably brought on by the stress and hysteria of the virus, perhaps he couldn't find toilet paper
Ehh, sounds like a crazy person with a firearm. They have those in the country too, granted, there's less density so less things for a bullet to potentially hit. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2020, 12:46:05 PM
we have them here for sure

maybe not as many

also not as many cops
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2020, 12:47:30 PM
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/georgia/articles/2020-03-17/officers-involved-in-shooting-near-atlantas-piedmont-park (https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/georgia/articles/2020-03-17/officers-involved-in-shooting-near-atlantas-piedmont-park)

Could have been a lot worse.  I'm pretty sure I heard some gun fire at one point.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2020, 01:18:30 PM
Or, something fell over on your deck.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 17, 2020, 01:19:34 PM

This area is not at all crime ridden.  It's an area of million dollar homes near where he was shot.

so 1% criminals
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2020, 01:21:16 PM
Bernie supporters assume everyone living in a million dollar house is a criminal

except Bernie
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2020, 01:22:26 PM
The wife has plants on our decks and on occasion one will blow over.  It wasn't very windy though.  The sounds a bit like suicide by cop.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2020, 01:29:10 PM
The street is open, but still being diverted north of us, and the grinder is apparently finished and being loaded up on the flatbed.  Entertainment galore here.  The truck dropped the flatbed onto the street and the grinder is loading from the front, it looks weird.

It's a side street they are redoing.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2020, 01:48:13 PM
who needs televised sporting events?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 17, 2020, 01:50:06 PM
who needs televised sporting events?
Apparently not ESPN. They still have content.

By which I mean talking heads yelling at each other.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on March 17, 2020, 03:52:15 PM
Apparently not ESPN. They still have content.

By which I mean talking heads yelling at each other.
Ideally from within 6 feet of each other
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 17, 2020, 04:13:48 PM
Bernie supporters assume everyone living in a million dollar house is a criminal

except Bernie
I usually stay out of politics here/there - but if that guy fell into a barrel of tits he'd come up sucking his thumb
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2020, 08:29:37 PM
wasn't a political post

was merely a poor attempt at humor
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2020, 08:16:51 AM
The local news here is predictably not very good.  The shooting incident yesterday was recounted with the only addition that the person killed was a former Marine.  Both officers who were "grazed" were treated and released.  Being grazed is not a very comforting thought.

I got annoyed because they kept saying they would cover this story right after the break, and didn't until THREE breaks later.  Seriously.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 18, 2020, 08:52:27 AM
Well there's breaking news on virus they have to fill you in on
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2020, 09:48:03 AM
Just back from Kroger, they were pretty well restocked, even had some TP left.  They were out of chicken and grated cheese oddly enough.  No panic buying or shopping.

I bought a few items for our neighbor who is in quarantine.  He says his temperature is fine and he's two weeks away from Rome so he's almost certainly fine.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 18, 2020, 10:04:11 AM
The local news here is predictably not very good.  The shooting incident yesterday was recounted with the only addition that the person killed was a former Marine.  Both officers who were "grazed" were treated and released.  Being grazed is not a very comforting thought.

I got annoyed because they kept saying they would cover this story right after the break, and didn't until THREE breaks later.  Seriously.
the waiting is the hardest part

kind of like being put on hold


“ Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.” Aristotle.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 18, 2020, 11:38:12 AM
Just back from Kroger, they were pretty well restocked, even had some TP left.  They were out of chicken and grated cheese oddly enough.  No panic buying or shopping.

I bought a few items for our neighbor who is in quarantine.  He says his temperature is fine and he's two weeks away from Rome so he's almost certainly fine.
If you're store is like ours (up here, Kroger is Mariano's) then I know the reasoning. Their shredded cheese and chicken are on steep discount in the sales email I received today.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2020, 11:48:07 AM
They have many brands of shredded cheese of course and they were all gone except the Costco sized bags of Kroger cheddar.  They were out of their brand of chicken and the other national brands they carry as well.  I got some pork chops that were on sale, thick bone in, they cook up nicely.  They had beef and pork, no chicken at all (maybe frozen, I didn't look).  They had maybe 5 packs of "expensive" TP left, we were getting low so I took one.  They were oddly out of a few other items which I presume just didn't get shipped.  

My friends tell me our paper plants are going flat out to get more TP into the system, it's now a distribution issue.  

If some rumor starts that there is a pending shortage of say coffee or beer or bananas, whatever, it will all be sold out in short order even without hoarding.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 18, 2020, 12:33:06 PM
A good friend of mine owns a trucking company. They mainly ship banana's from ports of entry, across the Mid West. He stated that they have been running non stop for the past 3 or 4 weeks trying to keep up with demand.

Also, when they are empty heading back to a port, they pick up whatever they can to prevent running an empty truck. A couple of days ago, they got a request to pick up toilet paper from the manufacturer. He said that the trucks were stacked 16 deep waiting to be loaded. So apparently the TP shortage isn't a question of supply, just a matter of distribution. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on March 18, 2020, 12:39:02 PM
that stuff is going to crust where it becomes mighty uncomfortable before those trucks rescue most people who didn't horde... 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2020, 01:21:47 PM
So long as the supply chain stays up. we should be OK I think.  If somehow that gets disrupted, we're on our own.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on March 18, 2020, 01:41:59 PM
we're going to be fine... this entire thing is going to develop how it develops- some things predictable as a result, some not- and when it has run its course we'll simply entwine it into every day life and times.  

some folks are going to get sick.  some of those folks are going to have to fight to live, but that is a small number.  because we're not capable of defending against this, and because it's 'brand new' to our systems a higher percentage of people who are exposed will get sick as compared to 'regular' flu... all said, though, our bodies will adjust for future outbreaks.  hiding from it simply flattens the curve, it doesn't protect YOU, it protects the 'system' to respond.  'when' you encounter it you're facing a nasty high percentage of it making you sick... 'how' sick is the question, and will differ from person to person.  unless there is a vaccine that is effective and released soon, like- very soon- you ARE going to encounter this thing.. 

if this virus is as 'slippery' as suggested, we're going to be dealing with it for a while.  my opinion, which has a negative value, is that it will fall far below the concern of real flu in the coming years as we develop natural resistance.  it's as if we're being assaulted by a vastly numerical force right now- and we are aware that fending this initial wave off is the key to winning the war.  fear of not having supplies being a panic reflex will abate as stores restock and folks realize the supply lines are healthy.  fear of the illness itself will abate as medical communities find a pace that is sustainable (which is what this is ALL about).  next time we encounter something like this (a 'novel' illness)?  We'll be better acclimated to respond without all the neck-bone-boogie. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on March 18, 2020, 02:09:02 PM
It's always about distribution.  I'm in the distribution business and say this all the time.   I've gotten so many messages from folks 'you're right MH'  .  

Incredible strain on pockets of our markets, so long as our people in the chain are healthy, we won't see a breakdown.

Getting interesting w banks for the first time thus far.  Businesses drawing down big time on lines of credit,  Banks suddenly have to produce cash.  They are well capitalized this time, but this is a wrinkle we haven't really seen in long time. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 20, 2020, 09:19:10 PM
watching/listening to: The Thrill Is Gone: A Tribute To B.B. King

https://relix.com/live/broadcast-20200320-the-thrill-is-gone-bb-king/ (https://relix.com/live/broadcast-20200320-the-thrill-is-gone-bb-king/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 21, 2020, 08:35:13 AM
I hope in a week or so perhaps folks will realize the supply chain is working and they will stop hoarding silly stuff.  The wife was at Kroger yesterday for the neighbor and said she got the last half pound of ground beef of any sort.  There was plenty of chicken this time.  

We'll be fine if power and water stay on.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 21, 2020, 09:00:00 AM
and the internet
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 21, 2020, 09:39:42 AM
In other news, my piano skills are very slowly returning a bit.  My left hand especially is very weak but improving.  My brain of course does not recognize complicated chords quickly at all.  It's going to take time, duh.

It is interesting to try and recover some of my proficiency from age 25.  I listen to music played by the pros and just marvel at it.  I think they practiced a lot.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 21, 2020, 10:09:27 AM
I pulled out the keyboard and guitar this past week. Arthritis and playing doesn't match, but I'm hoping to maybe break through and give the fingers some exercise. Might help the arthritis. Of course, Florida weather would help too. It's 30 degrees here today.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 21, 2020, 10:19:59 AM
What about Keytar?  You got one of those???
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 21, 2020, 10:21:40 AM
Never interested me. I did play an accordion for a while when I was younger.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 21, 2020, 10:31:24 AM
I'm much better at listening to music than making it.

I can whistle a bit, but no one wants to hear me sing
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 21, 2020, 11:47:20 AM
I quit piano lessons when I was 12.  My Mom was against it, but I had quit practicing or making any effort at all in my lessons.  My teacher had two Steinways back to back and if you didn't play it right he'd play along with you, and I'd just quit playing.  I wanted to play basketball and baseball.  I discovered a year or so later that playing strengthened my hands and fingers and they didn't get bent back as often by the basketball, and I got pretty good at catching bad passes.  So, I kept playing, and in college it was a respite, a way to clear my head, and in grad school I no longer had access to I bought one which I sold in Cincy rather than moving it.  I had quit playing when the kids came along, actually after I got married as the wife would complain about it (and a lot else).

The current wife encourages me even though I'm pretty bad.  I am about able to play a few items reasonably well now.  I looked at some of the more complex pieces and laughed.

It does give one an appreciation for how good the pros are.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 21, 2020, 12:23:39 PM
I wish I'd let my parents force me into piano lessons when I was a kid.  They wanted me to, but I flat-out refused.

Instead I wasted countless hours practicing and playing the French horn from 6th-12th grade.  I now dream of spending all that time playing piano, or guitar, or almost any other instrument.  

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 21, 2020, 12:24:56 PM
82 ncaa men’s championship on cbs. Ewing, worthy and Jordan, Perkins
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 21, 2020, 12:30:01 PM
I wish I'd let my parents force me into piano lessons when I was a kid.  They wanted me to, but I flat-out refused.

Instead I wasted countless hours practicing and playing the French horn from 6th-12th grade.  I now dream of spending all that time playing piano, or guitar, or almost any other instrument. 


Was your horn a long horn?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 21, 2020, 12:38:49 PM
You better believe it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 21, 2020, 12:43:32 PM
Was your horn a long horn?
Kazoo
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 22, 2020, 08:21:41 AM
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a31226611/gm-ultium-electric-vehicle-battery-revealed/?utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR1ozsQc3Vy6TX35DQQDQxuoUMbSpSsTB334QaQlFMwJxWwMghduKZUr8u8 (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a31226611/gm-ultium-electric-vehicle-battery-revealed/?utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR1ozsQc3Vy6TX35DQQDQxuoUMbSpSsTB334QaQlFMwJxWwMghduKZUr8u8)

Back on the EV topic, this is interesting, I think, GM touting some really big batteries for heavier vehicles.

GM seems very gung ho about EVs.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 22, 2020, 10:23:31 AM
I need an EV with a range of 500 miles-- whilst towing up to 9,000 lbs.  When they bring that one out, I'll be interested.

I'm really not sure why there aren't any hybrid options in that space, it seems to be an obviously well suited use case.  I can only assume that particular market segment is just too small for manufacturers to be interested.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 22, 2020, 10:29:45 AM
I'd rather have a 1,000 mile range for trips to and from Texas

sitting at a charging station in Oklahoma or Kansas would really add to the time.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 22, 2020, 10:32:37 AM
A plug in hybrid larger truck with a small turbo-Diesel and powerful electric motors and perhaps a 30 mile range on EV would be neat I think.  The Diesel would probably weigh less than equivalent batteries and refueling would be normal.  Around town trips would be largely on battery alone.

Towing should be fine with the EV torque.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 22, 2020, 10:43:18 AM
I'd rather have a 1,000 mile range for trips to and from Texas

sitting at a charging station in Oklahoma or Kansas would really add to the time.
Most of my towing is around 500 per day, so I'd be willing to accept that as a minimum limit.  But the size of battery bank it would take to be able to tow 9,000lbs deadweight behind the vehicle, is always going to be prohibitive.

That's why I'd be open to look to a hybrid, but nothing out there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 22, 2020, 10:44:47 AM
A plug in hybrid larger truck with a small turbo-Diesel and powerful electric motors and perhaps a 30 mile range on EV would be neat I think.  The Diesel would probably weigh less than equivalent batteries and refueling would be normal.  Around town trips would be largely on battery alone.

Towing should be fine with the EV torque.
Yup, the torque from EV is perfect for towing.  The limitation on capacity and range is not.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on March 22, 2020, 11:08:57 AM
I wish I'd let my parents force me into piano lessons when I was a kid.  They wanted me to, but I flat-out refused.

Instead I wasted countless hours practicing and playing the French horn from 6th-12th grade.  I now dream of spending all that time playing piano, or guitar, or almost any other instrument. 


Did you like the French horn? Or was it pulling teeth either way?

I always wonder about music because I have zero aptitude for it and came from a family that was the same. They figured I'd be a pain in the ass if they tried to force it (happened to my dad, who I think butchered the violin something fierce) and if it made no one happy, the energy could be spent elsewhere. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 22, 2020, 11:33:49 AM
A plug in hybrid larger truck with a small turbo-Diesel and powerful electric motors and perhaps a 30 mile range on EV would be neat I think.  The Diesel would probably weigh less than equivalent batteries and refueling would be normal.  Around town trips would be largely on battery alone.

Towing should be fine with the EV torque.
Imagine offloading the diesel and leaving it in the garage for short trips under 30 miles
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 22, 2020, 11:40:08 AM
A smallish Diesel wouldn't weigh all that much, but that's an interesting concept.  I'm think of perhaps a 2 L Diesel.  GM has a 3 L Diesel as the only motivator in their trucks and SUVs.  A Diesel could be designed to operate at a single optimum RPM for turning the generator, something like 2400 RPM.  It would need no fancy valve train to go faster than that.  It probably could keep the truck at highway speed once achieved without a tow.  

I like the general notion.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 22, 2020, 11:46:21 AM
Did you like the French horn? Or was it pulling teeth either way?

I always wonder about music because I have zero aptitude for it and came from a family that was the same. They figured I'd be a pain in the ass if they tried to force it (happened to my dad, who I think butchered the violin something fierce) and if it made no one happy, the energy could be spent elsewhere.
I liked band and orchestra.  And I chose the French horn, at the time, in 5th grade.  So it wasn't exactly like pulling teeth.  I love music, I have a good voice and spent time in choir as well, and I love being able to read music.  So overall I'm "good" at music and enjoy all aspects of it.

But the French horn is the most difficult of all the keyed brass instruments to play, primarily because it has the smallest mouthpiece.  And I have relatively big lips so it was even more difficult for me to play.

The problem is, every kid wants to play trumpet or trombone or saxophone.  Very very few want to play French horn.  So elementary and middle school band directors, devious little shits that they were, steer unsuspecting kids to the French horn, to make their numbers.  I got roped into that, and my parents didn't know any better to prevent it from happening.  I mean, I already owned a trumpet that was given to me by a neighbor, and I wanted to play trumpet, and the band director convinced me I was a "natural" at French horn, despite the fact that my physical attributes made me decidedly NOT a natural.

So years later, I regret spending a MASSIVE amount of time on an instrument that's difficult to play at all, and even more difficult to make it sound good.  Don't get me wrong, when played well, the French horn is a beautiful instrument, and it's vital to the sound of every symphony orchestra.  But to be able to play at that level takes not only a ton of time and dedication, but simply, the physical makeup to be able to do so.  I didn't have it and never was going to.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 22, 2020, 11:51:02 AM
My son was "roped" into playing viola for the same basic reason.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 22, 2020, 11:52:45 AM
I played the trumpet for a few weeks or a few months

my father was not impressed - not because I had no talent - he probably didn't think there was much of a future in it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 22, 2020, 11:58:04 AM
I wished I'd played trumpet.  I tried to pick it up later in life and was okay at it, but no longer had the time (and energy) I had from ages 11-18.  If I'd spent all those countless hours on some other instrument, I'd have a lot more to show for it.  

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 22, 2020, 12:15:39 PM
Our HS had 2-3 really good players, usually violin, in the orchestra each year.  They would be going to college in music to places like Julliard etc.  I imagine they ended up teaching, the atmosphere is so incredibly rarified when it comes to playing in a major symphony orchestra, and the performers often have 50 year careers.

It's probably more elite than playing professional sports at the top level.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MichiFan87 on March 22, 2020, 12:25:12 PM
I wished I'd played trumpet.  I tried to pick it up later in life and was okay at it, but no longer had the time (and energy) I had from ages 11-18.  If I'd spent all those countless hours on some other instrument, I'd have a lot more to show for it. 


You could've tried baritone or tuba, instead....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 22, 2020, 12:26:41 PM
I really enjoy playing the drums. When we move to Florida I will get a kit. Living in a townhome for 11 years and now this condo.. well, not conducive to playing drums.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 22, 2020, 12:29:12 PM
the place in Florida will be good for that?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 22, 2020, 12:40:53 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDEem_aEttE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDEem_aEttE)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 22, 2020, 12:57:33 PM
You could've tried baritone or tuba, instead....

Ha!

I did play baritone/euphonium in my final years in band, along with French horn.  It's easy to play, but also not that much fun.  Tuba is even easier, but even less fun.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 22, 2020, 01:02:46 PM
the place in Florida will be good for that?

Yeah. It's a SF home.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 22, 2020, 01:29:59 PM
Last night I grilled up a ribeye cap steak to split with my wife, and she roasted some asparagus and some sweet potatoes (w/onion/garlic). Had a nice bottle of Rattlesnake Zinfandel from Mount Peak winery, which I highly recommend.

I've started going the opposite way with steaks compared to how I used to cook them. I used to always do the "reverse sear", cooking them low & slow until they were almost done, then popping them over a ripping hot grill to sear. I've been going the opposite way lately if I'm only cooking one or two. I've been searing on the grill until the color is perfect, then popping them in the oven to reach temp. 

I think we pretty well nailed that meal, but my wife wouldn't let me take a picture... "Don't brag during coronavirus." :67:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 22, 2020, 01:38:07 PM
I tried reverse sear once and didn't do it right apparently.  The wife likes her steak "blu rare", which I can't do with that method.  I often get hers to where I'm worried it is too raw and she says it's perfect.  Anything that is my notion of rare is over done for her.  These flatiron steaks work for us because parts are thin for me and parts are thick for her.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 22, 2020, 02:21:10 PM
I prefer grilling steaks on a high heat grill for a great sear.  400plus degrees for a couple minutes per side.

my grill wasn't heating up to 400+ quick enough last night and 6 old guys were hungry and impatient so I started the steaks on lower heat than usual - 250-300

my steak was perfect rare - med rare, but I'm afraid a couple of the steaks were more medium.

No complaints and many compliments from the fellas, but it still bothers me.

The rib eyes were beautiful.  labeled choice, but very close to prime if they weren't prime

should have taken pics
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 22, 2020, 03:14:47 PM
The wife does not like ribeye, maybe in part because I have gotten them at Kroger.  The meat cuts here are different than in France, so she doesn't know the differences at all.  She does know flatiron because that is our go to.

This Chateaubriand thing is something she'd never heard of before and laughed at the term.  I like the bone in pork chops a lot.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 22, 2020, 04:19:33 PM
I don't like ribeye either, too fatty.  Grilling doesn't render fat like slow-smoking does so the really marbled cuts are not to my liking for grilling.

Strip or filet are my steaks of choice.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 22, 2020, 04:31:19 PM
yup, I understand why prime rib is popular

I prefer strips, T-bones, Porterhouse

but once in a while a rib eye is OK

the 6 I grilled last night were hard to beat
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 22, 2020, 04:35:04 PM
The best I ever had was a bone in ribeye at Eddie Merlot's.  They called it a tomahawk ribeye as they left the bone really long.  They age their own beef and have those ultrahot ovens.  The wife likes filet mignon, which of course is not what they call it in France.  Entree is not the entree and menu doesn't really mean menu often as not.

Weird country.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 22, 2020, 04:44:16 PM
Menu Big Mac avec biere, s'il vous plaît
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 22, 2020, 04:56:38 PM
Yeah, that really threw me at first, even after the wife tried to explain.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 22, 2020, 04:59:01 PM
The best I ever had was a bone in ribeye at Eddie Merlot's.  They called it a tomahawk ribeye as they left the bone really long.  They age their own beef and have those ultrahot ovens.  The wife likes filet mignon, which of course is not what they call it in France.  Entree is not the entree and menu doesn't really mean menu often as not.

Weird country.
I really enjoy the dry aged steaks and steaks with the bone-in are preferred as well
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 22, 2020, 05:25:36 PM
Yeah, that really threw me at first, even after the wife tried to explain.


After ordering the big mac meal with a beer as the drink, in the drive thru, a few times, the novelty wore off.

That's when I realized I could order a happy meal, with a beer as the drink, in the drive thru.  In fact I could order two.

For a country with such strict drinking/driving laws, it floored me that they'd allow me to order drive-thru beer, with a Happy Meal of all things.

Good times. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 22, 2020, 06:22:29 PM
For a country with such strict drinking/driving laws, it floored me that they'd allow me to order drive-thru beer, with a Happy Meal of all things.

Good times. :)
That wouldn't have lasted long around here but I'd still be pissed if they spilled it in my lap
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 22, 2020, 06:26:40 PM
I tried reverse sear once and didn't do it right apparently. 
I love medium steaks and this nails it,takes longer but worth it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on March 22, 2020, 09:19:45 PM
My son was "roped" into playing viola for the same basic reason.
I heard a viola concerto on Public classical radio a week or two ago.
And my friend in hospice has a nephew who majored at oSu in performance music playing the viola.
But I know what you mean.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2020, 06:20:04 AM
I might go to Kroger today and see what steaks they have out early.  The wife went to Trader Joe's yesterday and said they had stuff but clearly were strained.  She went while I was showering or I would have asked her to reconsider.

We're buying a little at a time now, just topping off.  I can walk to the above or Whole Foods fairly easily as needed.  Kroger is a bit more of a hike.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2020, 11:06:12 AM
I tried reverse sear once and didn't do it right apparently.  The wife likes her steak "blu rare", which I can't do with that method.  I often get hers to where I'm worried it is too raw and she says it's perfect.  Anything that is my notion of rare is over done for her.  These flatiron steaks work for us because parts are thin for me and parts are thick for her.
Yeah, the whole goal of reverse sear is to get where most of us consider med rare without either overcooking the outside or leaving the inside cool and raw, which is the opposite of "blu rare". I can't imagine any way to get to blue rare with this method. But blue rare might very well be the easiest way to cook a steak--sear the outside on high heat until it's the right color, and then serve. 

Flatiron is a really great cut. Nice marbling and flavor, very tender, and without the hefty price tag of the more well-known cuts. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2020, 11:13:26 AM
I don't like ribeye either, too fatty.  Grilling doesn't render fat like slow-smoking does so the really marbled cuts are not to my liking for grilling.

Strip or filet are my steaks of choice.
I'm the opposite. I like the marbled cuts because of the fat content. Although I'll grant that ribeye can have some big chunks of fat between the meat, which a lot of people don't like. Even in prime rib, those big chunks of fat don't really render [i.e. liquefy]; they just get soft. 

But I figure those who don't like the fat can eat around it pretty easily, but the marbling goes a long way to give flavor and moisture in the portions of meat that you're eating. And people like me eat the fat too. 

I find filet to be a bit light on flavor for my taste. Strip has some flavor, but I don't prefer the texture of strip over ribeye. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2020, 11:40:21 AM
yup, I like the strip cause it's got better flavor than the fillet and not as fatty as the rib eye.

you can find strips with great marbling

my 2nd choice is the sirloin - great flavor - usually not as well marbled, but a big bold beef taste
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2020, 12:05:42 PM

my 2nd choice is the sirloin - great flavor - usually not as well marbled, but a big bold beef taste
Yeah, sirloin is harder to appropriately cook and maintain tenderness, because it's not a naturally tender meat. But the flavor is great. 

My love of tri tip is well known, and that's a portion of the bottom sirloin. It's got great flavor, and properly prepared/sliced, is tender.

It's a cut that's easy to cook badly, but quite honestly not very hard to cook well, if that makes sense...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2020, 12:12:57 PM
When I was young, ground sirloin was really tasty, and actually from sirloin, instead of ground beef with less fat.

The tastier cuts often are tougher.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 23, 2020, 12:16:39 PM
I'm the opposite. I like the marbled cuts because of the fat content. Although I'll grant that ribeye can have some big chunks of fat between the meat, which a lot of people don't like. Even in prime rib, those big chunks of fat don't really render [i.e. liquefy]; they just get soft.

But I figure those who don't like the fat can eat around it pretty easily, but the marbling goes a long way to give flavor and moisture in the portions of meat that you're eating. And people like me eat the fat too.

I find filet to be a bit light on flavor for my taste. Strip has some flavor, but I don't prefer the texture of strip over ribeye.

I don't like prime rib/standing rib roast either, for the same reason.  I hate chunks of fat.

Even BBQing a brisket, I prefer the lean flat, over the fatty point, again for the same reasons.  Even though the fat is rendered in a smoked brisket, it's still there, and I still don't like it.  I'm definitely in the minority on that, though, as fatty brisket actually sells for a premium over lean in this state.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 23, 2020, 12:26:56 PM
But I figure those who don't like the fat can eat around it pretty easily, but the marbling goes a long way to give flavor and moisture in the portions of meat that you're eating. And people like me eat the fat too.
I agree about ribeyes maybe a little burnt fat but that's it - hard to work off at my age.Prolly rub down the strips with it if you're doing any at the same time
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2020, 12:27:31 PM
That Fox Bros place does some great brisket, but they are from Texas.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 23, 2020, 01:10:43 PM
That Fox Bros place does some great brisket, but they are from Texas.
But of course.


I had great brisket at a BBQ place in the Bay Area once upon a time many years ago.  It was, of course, owned and operated by Texans.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2020, 01:51:37 PM
the best BBQ in my area is a place called Aggies.

yup, Texas aggies - transplanted

utee's favorites
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 23, 2020, 02:09:28 PM
Ags are pretty predictable.  If they went to TAMU, they are 100% guaranteed to insist you find out about it within the first 20 seconds of conversation, no matter where you encounter them in this wide wide world.  

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on March 23, 2020, 02:42:26 PM
No graduate of a school wears their class ring at a higher rate than an Aggie.   They will also demonstrate how the ring is a bottle opener.  Which is helpful.  

I dont even have a class ring.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2020, 02:48:09 PM
A college class ring?  Huh.  I had a HS class ring on back, it was a thing.  The thought of having a college ring even from the highly esteemed institution from which I gradeated is remote.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2020, 02:52:56 PM
yup, all the Aggie spirit crap was probably overflowing the house, so they opened a BBQ place to they had a better place to display it prominently to the public

http://www.aggiesbbq.com/venue.php (http://www.aggiesbbq.com/venue.php)

(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aggiesbbq.com%2Fimages%2Fthevenue.jpg&hash=d74f0273ba7fb2284f7ba12111bde070)

(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aggiesbbq.com%2Fimages%2Fvenue%2Fbar2.jpg&hash=a412bc566c1c1b34c9a0983c63d81801)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2020, 02:54:37 PM
didn't have HS class ring, parents didn't have the $$$ for it.

Neither did I, I had been told by parents that I was going to a 4 years school and I was paying for it.

I was in saving mode
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 23, 2020, 03:02:01 PM
My grandfather was so proud of each college graduate in his family that he insisted on buying us class rings.  Who am I to say no? :)

I still wear mine every now and then, but I actually don't like the feeling of jewelry on my person, in general.  Even my wedding ring comes off at night, I can't stand the feel of it on my finger when I'm trying to sleep
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2020, 03:03:35 PM
Canadian engineers tend to wear their rings very proudly:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Ring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Ring)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2020, 03:08:32 PM
We have these rings:

(https://i.imgur.com/S1XBxnT.jpg)

I don't like rungs either, but this is amazingly comfortable, easy to get one and off, and purty.  The rings roll over each other if you have them in the right orientation.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 23, 2020, 03:13:07 PM
Canadian engineers tend to wear their rings very proudly:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Ring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Ring)
Euro countries have a great respect for engineers, too.  When I was working in France, Germany, and Italy, they called me "Doctor".  To them, an engineering degree held the same esteem as a medical doctor.  It was weird, but you know, I rolled with it. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2020, 03:29:14 PM
Euro countries have a great respect for engineers, too.  When I was working in France, Germany, and Italy, they called me "Doctor".  To them, an engineering degree held the same esteem as a medical doctor.  It was weird, but you know, I rolled with it. :)
Funny, around here they just call us "Hey nerd." :57:

Although I do think that as the world has become more intensely technological, people are starting to understand that nerds make the world work. It's our era. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 23, 2020, 04:03:12 PM
Nerddom?

That's where I'm a Viking!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2020, 04:15:10 PM
I wore my wedding ring religiously until the divorce papers were signed

don't think I've worn any type of jewelry since

I wore a wrist watch back in the daze before cell phones

not a fan of jewelry

but, if others like it, that's ok
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2020, 04:31:05 PM
I wore my wedding ring religiously until the divorce papers were signed
My first wedding ring is at the bottom of Newport Harbor. 

I might have tried to hock it, but I figure it's bad luck anyway. 

I likewise don't enjoy jewelry. I do wear my wedding ring, though. My wife doesn't trust men who don't wear their wedding ring, and I have to say that I wouldn't either. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on March 23, 2020, 05:42:21 PM
My grandfather's UC-Berkeley class ring was a part of him. Impossible for me to imagine him without it. Long after his death, it occurred to me that part of that may have been a reaction to the West Pointers he served with throughout his career who wore their rings all the time. Maybe--maybe not. Anyway, I bought a UW class ring probably in large part due to my admiration for my grandfather. I wear it off and on--used to wear it a lot more. I worry that it is pretentious (it is), but I still like it--and still like thinking of my grandfather.

My wedding ring only comes off when required (or when I'm fiddling with it). I can understand people who take them off to sleep, and some jobs and hobbies require that you remove jewelry, and some people have allergic reactions to the metal, but in general I agree with the line of thinking that a married person should wear their wedding ring. I guess I'm old fashioned that way.

Curiously, my grandfather didn't wear a wedding ring--just his class ring on the left hand where one would expect a wedding ring. I always thought that was weird.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on March 23, 2020, 05:53:26 PM
I have a titanium ring because it is super light, but which means I'm F'd if I get my hand stuck with it.  I take it off all the time.   I loathe jewelry,  but do wear it when out in public, for the most part.  It comes off the moment I get home. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2020, 05:56:42 PM
My first wedding ring is at the bottom of Newport Harbor.

I might have tried to hock it, but I figure it's bad luck anyway.

I likewise don't enjoy jewelry. I do wear my wedding ring, though. My wife doesn't trust men who don't wear their wedding ring, and I have to say that I wouldn't either.

not sure where mine is today

I took it off while driving and put it in the ash tray of my 2002 GMC 2500HD truck.  Never smoked in the truck, ash tray was clean.

Traded the truck on a 2007 Impala SS, don't know if I took the ring out or not.  Wasn't important to me any longer.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 23, 2020, 06:09:37 PM
I have no idea where my first wedding ring is. I do know where my UW ring is, and I know where my current wedding ring is.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2020, 06:09:44 PM
I have a titanium ring because it is super light, but which means I'm F'd if I get my hand stuck with it.  I take it off all the time.  I loathe jewelry,  but do wear it when out in public, for the most part.  It comes off the moment I get home.
My wife was going to buy me a platinum ring. I don't give a #&$@. I had her buy me cobalt chromium at about 10% the price. 

Not like anyone can tell the difference, and not like anyone cares what kind of ring a dude has anyway.

I wear a silicone ring when I'm hiking, brewing, or doing anything else where a ring would interfere. You may want to look for something like that when you're doing something that could potentially get it stuck on your finger...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2020, 06:19:18 PM
I was divorced once and to my great surprise remarried a few years back (not to the first wife of course).

How many here have a divorce or three?  I'm probably a bit unusual (in general) in that I was the domicile parent.  My ex for whatever reason was not interested in child rearing, at all.  It would have been nice had I realized that up front, but I did get three great kids (who have zero interaction with her).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2020, 07:04:34 PM
Only one divorce, I to was the domicile parent

I have two great daughters.  They have limited interaction with their mother - more than they would like if you believe what they say.

I have little to no interaction with her, which I appreciate
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2020, 07:35:57 PM
I was divorced once and to my great surprise remarried a few years back (not to the first wife of course).

How many here have a divorce or three?  I'm probably a bit unusual (in general) in that I was the domicile parent.  My ex for whatever reason was not interested in child rearing, at all.  It would have been nice had I realized that up front, but I did get three great kids (who have zero interaction with her).
Just the one divorce for me, and second marriage... Planning to keep both numbers the same :93:

Sadly the kids are still minors and there's joint custody, so I have far too much interaction with their mom.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 23, 2020, 07:40:58 PM
One divorce. One very happy marriage.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on March 23, 2020, 08:31:03 PM
I once wore a tungsten ring and it saved my hand... I had a truck's front end on a Jack and was moving Jack stands under it... I reached up between stand and axle to move an ABS harness wire when the hydraulic Jack blew the cylinder... the axle fell the maybe three inches to the stand and my finger was trapped between the two in the cradle....

I took a picture of it... I should look for that pic.  I laid on that crawler staring at it after taking the picture and then DUH realized if it shifted the jack stand may shoot out from under it... I got out quick!!!

I wear a ring made of a silver dollar now.  I'll find a link... they're pretty cool.  The writing and design are still visible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhN8IhATB2Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhN8IhATB2Q)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 23, 2020, 08:42:39 PM
My wedding ring is titanium.  Cost us maybe $80 twenty years ago.  My i s c & a aggie wife wanted to get me a much more expensive one made of gold and platinum but I'm not a very flashy guy.  This one suits me much better.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2020, 08:51:01 PM
I wear a ring made of a silver dollar now.  I'll find a link... they're pretty cool.  The writing and design are still visible.

if I wore rings I'd have one of those - I like it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on March 23, 2020, 09:25:59 PM
Yeah, titanium ring in 2006 was $110.  Bought solely because it was light and easily removable.   Just cant get finger stuck anywhere. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on March 23, 2020, 09:35:10 PM
Never been hitched and always found the class ring thing odd. 

Granted, in my life, 80 percent of the people I knew who had them were just odd ducks to begin with. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on March 23, 2020, 09:35:41 PM
My wedding ring comes off when I go out on the grade. Construction sites and wedding rings don't mix.

Speaking of rings, isn't the whole Engineer's Ring thing based on the rings cast from the wreckage of the first Quebec Bridge? I know the U of Minnesota does something similar with a statue cast from a piece of the 35W bridge wreckage.

http://www.cege.umn.edu/news-events/in-the-news/Spring2014_CEGEmag_online/Order_of_the_Engineer.html (http://www.cege.umn.edu/news-events/in-the-news/Spring2014_CEGEmag_online/Order_of_the_Engineer.html)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2020, 10:31:16 PM
No marriages, no divorces, no rings, no jewelry.  No pets, no family within 1800 miles.  I have plenty of peace and quiet.  Plenty of time to wonder.  I'm messy or tidy when I want and for as long as I want.  And I'm very happy.
.
I'm around kids and women all day at work.  It's nice not to have any when I get home.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on March 23, 2020, 11:24:14 PM
It's been interesting getting my kids going on their new e-learning lessons while we all  are at home.   I kill off any meetings in the early am, so I cant get my 2nd grader focused and on task.  I'm helping her learn fractions.  The 5th grader is like her Mom, up early, at the lesson by 7:15, they are reccomended to start at 9, and off on her own.  

I have to admit, the school has put forth a legitimate lesson plan, a pretty full plate of tasks. I'm impressed.  The 2nd grader is missing out on the social aspects of school I can tell.  That explains the 8way face timing in the afternoons. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2020, 11:40:31 PM
We were told nothing until Saturday, and were given today to set up and prepare for 2 hours of lessons for tomorrow.  
Once they realized that was absurd, they were understanding that this week will be a transition week.  I spent 30 min on the phone with a parent, just trying to get them to log in with their kid's gmail account.  
.
I want to do a great job and provide too much content rather than not enough, but what I'm fearful of is doing all this work for 1/3 of my class that will actually DO anything.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on March 24, 2020, 12:02:40 AM
I like watches. I particularly like big Invicta watches. I wear them and my wedding ring to work, Church, out, etc.  But as soon as I hit the door they come off. Don’t wear them around the house at all, or when I work out, or do yard work.

When I’m at home it is strictly basketball shorts and a tee shirt. I haven’t worn any type of pants that didn’t have an elastic waistband for over a week now. Even grocery store runs  are in sweats or shorts.  Haven’t shaved in that time either.

But I’m going stir crazy. This stay at home with the kids and do schoolwork thing is weighing on me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on March 24, 2020, 12:06:11 AM
I empathize with you OAM.  This is a helluva an undertaking.  It's great our district had much of the infrastructure in place, heavily leveraging Canvas, they are even using Zoom tomorrow.  The lessons have been on point, creative in spots, engaging.   A classic CLE tactic for verifying child attendance and the teachers score assignments and stay engaged.  

I'm not naive though,  this is a solid performing affluent district with very engaged parents.  There was going to be a high bar set of expectations.  I'll be interested how this unit math test is administered this week.  Going to be a long April .
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on March 24, 2020, 08:55:09 AM
We were told nothing until Saturday, and were given today to set up and prepare for 2 hours of lessons for tomorrow. 
Once they realized that was absurd, they were understanding that this week will be a transition week.  I spent 30 min on the phone with a parent, just trying to get them to log in with their kid's gmail account. 
.
I want to do a great job and provide too much content rather than not enough, but what I'm fearful of is doing all this work for 1/3 of my class that will actually DO anything.
my kid is using something called seesaw and flipboard and some other applications... the district here provided them with iPads.... i got one for her instead of using my own after looking at the required permissions those apps want..... there is landmark case concerning these things in people's homes that is unsettling, but that is for another thread.... 

i offered to make them a forum.... there is actually classroom software out there for this same engine that allows classes to be 'attended' and of course lessons can be presented as well as testing- all nice and secure... but it appears they are married to the mentioned applications/platforms, and pay a hefty sum for them. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on March 24, 2020, 09:02:21 AM
speaking of x's and jewelry... 

i worked early Saturday morning's for years.... i came home one Saturday by lunch, as usual, and just to witness some guy walking back to his truck with ALL my dive gear... the X decided to join her friends 'yard sale' and was hoofing stuff from the house out to the tables........ mostly 'my' stuff... i was livid. 

the only thing that remained of my items was a Tag watch, valued somewhere in the $3k range, which she was trying to get $50 for... she knew good and damn well it's value.  The Breitling Aviator and the Rolex Submariner were gone.... our course had already ran at this point, and it was one of the final tipping points.  I bought those things when i was contracting overseas.  they were keepsakes as much as anything, but anyone who has 'been there' knows that a good watch is hellacious negotiating tools pretty much no matter where you are in the world... "i need a truck... here is a watch"- boom, i drive away. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 24, 2020, 09:13:42 AM
Is that when she became your Ex?

Like, that DAY?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2020, 09:21:47 AM
Ouch.  My ex didn't even retain a lawyer.  She knew if anything I was honest, and she had a specific figure in mind.  My lawyer kept trying to work the numbers in my favor until I explained it to her.  I wanted to retain the house so the kids had stability and it took just about every cent I had to pay her for her part and the rest of it, but I knew in a year or so I would have recovered.  That was a rough time, but my main focus was on keeping the kids.  Had they been with her, well, I can't imagine how bad it would have been.  On her weekends, they told me later, she'd go by Blockbuster and take out 10 tapes for them to watch and then disappear.

When they got older they'd often call me on Saturday afternoon and ask if I could come get them, they were bored, and often they had soccer or whatever anyway on Saturdays.  The boy was with my flying and supposed to be back at her house one Saturday at 6 PM when the engine quit on us.  It took a while of course to deal with various and sundry to get him back to her house, and she was mad because it was some special dinner she was hosting.  They were like props to her, not people.

The good news is that Wife #2 is about her exact opposite.  I'm very thankful for that, and my kids love her also.  Life lessons.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2020, 09:54:07 AM
I had joint custody, but paid the ex a bunch of money so that the kids didn't have to stay with her much.

I either paid or she'd have the Sheriff come pick up the kids

it was great
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on March 24, 2020, 09:56:46 AM
I was married for 25 years and had 10 kids when my ex decided she would rather sleep with other men then be married.  The minor kids lived with me until I moved to Arizona, I then gave them the choice to move with me or stay with their mother. Some stayed, some moved. Only one is a minor now and lives with his mother. I am living for the day he turns 18 (1 year) so i no longer have to deal with the ex. 

My wedding ring (gold) ended up going to my church's youth group's jewelry fund raiser. They collected old jewelry that people didn't want and sold it to jewelers, for scrap, etc. to raise money. 

Married to current wife for 3 years (cobalt ring) and couldn't be happier. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on March 24, 2020, 10:06:59 AM
Is that when she became your Ex?

Like, that DAY?
somewhere in the next month i called it- i finally realized what she was doing.... she didn't want to be the 'bad guy' in the face of her friends and family... so, i learned a lesson- "it's okay to be the bad guy when something so important is at stake".  

we had the house 'appraised' (by a realtor not a real appraiser but someone who was her 'friend' but was really trying to screw her)... she valued the house, in the middle of the boom, over $40k less than what a REAL appraiser (that i secured unbeknownst to her) had valued it... her 'friend' was looking for a quick sell and taking advantage of her... she told me later she (realtor) knew she was busted (by me) the second she said what she would list it for.... after paying off the note and some mutual debt, there would have been $30k left to 'split'... I offered her $25k to disappear, so long as she signed the separation agreement (which later becomes the divorce agreement as per NC law) and had it notarized within the week.  it took her greedy ass about 5 hours to sign it and we notarized both signatures together- her realtor 'friend' was the notary, which i thought was hilarious. 

i had one more run in with her later.... i made a comment to her about telling someone something, and she hung up on me and i've never heard from her since.... glory be to allah we didn't have kids.... just two dogs which i missed terribly for a spell. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 24, 2020, 10:07:45 AM
When I’m at home it is strictly basketball shorts and a tee shirt. I haven’t worn any type of pants that didn’t have an elastic waistband for over a week now. Even grocery store runs  are in sweats or shorts.  Haven’t shaved in that time either.

But I’m going stir crazy. This stay at home with the kids and do schoolwork thing is weighing on me.
As someone who was already attuned to working from home, having a routine to feel like a normal human being is important. 

Often I'll wake up and get on the computer first thing in the morning, basically doing the same thing (basketball shorts & workout tee shirt), largely because I can get work done before the rest of CA wakes up and because it keeps my out of my wife's way in the bathroom while she's getting ready for work.

But I always make sure that by mid-morning, I take a shower and put on "real" clothes. Even if by "real" it's cargo shorts and a normal tee shirt. Otherwise I get to 4 PM and feel like a deadbeat, even though I've spent all day working productively. 

Give it a try. Throw on a pair of jeans and a real shirt. Wear shoes. You might be surprised how much different it feels than wearing sweats all day. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on March 24, 2020, 10:17:04 AM
my kid is using something called seesaw and flipboard and some other applications... the district here provided them with iPads.... i got one for her instead of using my own after looking at the required permissions those apps want..... there is landmark case concerning these things in people's homes that is unsettling, but that is for another thread....
Our District uses Seesaw as well.  Every time anyone in his class does anything I get a notification and an email, back to back.  I'm getting more Seesaw notifications than I am work emails.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on March 24, 2020, 10:31:11 AM
fun stuff instead of old and bad memories: 

i made this for a friend to give to his wife... the board is maple (which was a log before Sunday), black walnut, and white ashe... used the CNC to pocket out the letter and filled it with resin... it bled a little which pisses me off, but... whatever.  i should have sealed it better i guess before flooding it.. 

(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90675685_10158612607518755_8859773694851940352_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=UqrSOHKZ8mAAX8-WX0P&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=fd3ac513a866535233bba429678fdef9&oe=5EA043C5)

(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90730616_10158612607713755_8836760495575793664_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=-eDzh3eiIYwAX-dpLu_&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=b19f15bc6e2e37b5fa92f79d901232be&oe=5E9F407B)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on March 24, 2020, 10:34:57 AM
here are some from the last week or so: 
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/90701673_10158591681428755_6437151310839021568_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=iIL5iaidZn0AX-Wx31F&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=ff0f19aea683699112d73379ac976855&oe=5E9E3005)
ribbon cut sapele with white ashe... the inset letter is white ashe... i thought indexing the second part 90* would look cool... not so sure with final product. 

(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90096201_10158591679113755_3950779191108042752_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=JyBk2svHoZQAX_vLFRJ&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=8956a4f050e38d69322f523217cbf28f&oe=5EA11295)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2020, 10:38:08 AM
Imagine this had happened circa 1980 or so.  Work from home was an impossibility.  We didn't have email yet.  Our section got one Apple 2E on a cart you could move around from office to office.  You stored your program on cassette tape, no floppy.  My first computer with a hard drive was an IBM something, it was AMAZING.  I used Symphony software, an enhanced version of Lotus 123.  Symphony had a comm capability I used to connect to instruments that had an RS232 port, and it had crude word processing.

Work from home?  Impossible.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 24, 2020, 11:10:21 AM
here are some from the last week or so
Drew do you make those end-block type cutting board/chopping blocks?I saw those a local farmers market last year they are pretty durable because the cutting is not going with the grain - supposedly
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2020, 11:18:01 AM
One quasi amusing story, the ex was paying me much reduced child support (I didn't need it).  She apparently changed her checking and didn't fix the automatic payments.  I mentioned to her I had not gotten the last couple of checks, just for information, and she exploded as usual at me for being greedy.  OK whatever.

A bit later, Child Services calls ME and tells me I am delinquent and when am I going to pay up.  I explain to the person I am not the person who is delinquent  That took a few minutes for them to believe me.  Anyway, they go away, and the ex calls me up in a few days irate as hell again that a Deputy Sheriff showed up at her house with an order for her to make the payments good.  That also was my fault.(Everything was someone else's fault of course.)

I guess she got it sorted out as I got the money in a week or so.  She was convinced I had somehow masterminded this plot against her.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 24, 2020, 11:22:36 AM
I guess she got it sorted out as I got the money in a week or so.  She was convinced I had somehow masterminded this plot against her.
Between this and the virus - you're good :-[
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on March 24, 2020, 11:56:11 AM
Drew do you make those end-block type cutting board/chopping blocks?I saw those a local farmers market last year they are pretty durable because the cutting is not going with the grain - supposedly
technically the difference between a cutting board and a chopping block is the orientation of the grain... when the surface of the board is end grain, it is a chopping block... when the grain runs vertical or horizontal it is a cutting board... 

i've made a few chopping blocks and let me tell you they are a pain, but... they last forever if properly cared for.  MOST of the cutting boards I make are when i have scraps enough of wood to make them... generally i don't collect a good piece of wood simply for that purpose, but sometimes i do just to contradict myself- it is a 'in between' job no matter because they are easy... a chopping block? not so easy.  and if i'm going to do one it's going to be substantial- like feet instead of inches WxL, and i've never made one not at least 4" thick... even my 'cutting boards' are thick, allowing them to be sanded down once scarred enough to warrant.   the maple one in the pic above is the thinnest cutting board i've ever made.  they 'should' last a lifetime, even after being sanded down after use... i don't see any point in making them if they wouldn't.  the insets on the second post (the sapele board) are a full 1/4" thick wit intent they will remain a long time. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 24, 2020, 12:10:17 PM
Thanx was going to say if you made end grains I might be interested if you were selling but I imagine they'd be pricey
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on March 24, 2020, 12:24:14 PM
Well put it this way.... I could sell a 4x6 foot chopping block for less than a quarter of what the market bears and still make a reasonable profit.... it could be anywhere from $600 to $1k, and comparable to some I've seen at $4~5k.  They are mighty proud of them.

The reason I dont sell them is I dont know what kind of condition they'll be in after use two, three years later... they're perfect when they leave my shop (if I'm charging), but I need more field data before I can start charging anyone, especially bearing the prices others charge.

But if you or anyone here wants one I'll happily make it for cost of material. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 24, 2020, 12:37:54 PM
@Drew4UTk (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1) I showed my wife some of your work and she might be interested in us getting one at some point for her mom & stepdad as a gift. I don't think she'd probably need to go all the way to chopping block territory, though. A cutting board would be sufficient. If it goes forward I'll let you know.

But just wanted to say that your work impresses more than just us on the board--my wife thought the boards were beautiful.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on March 24, 2020, 01:04:27 PM
Thank you ... I'm not near as good as a friend is, and yet another friend makes us both look like cave men shaping sticks... 

I'll  happily make one for you guys! 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 24, 2020, 01:07:22 PM
As someone who was already attuned to working from home, having a routine to feel like a normal human being is important.

Often I'll wake up and get on the computer first thing in the morning, basically doing the same thing (basketball shorts & workout tee shirt), largely because I can get work done before the rest of CA wakes up and because it keeps my out of my wife's way in the bathroom while she's getting ready for work.

But I always make sure that by mid-morning, I take a shower and put on "real" clothes. Even if by "real" it's cargo shorts and a normal tee shirt. Otherwise I get to 4 PM and feel like a deadbeat, even though I've spent all day working productively.

Give it a try. Throw on a pair of jeans and a real shirt. Wear shoes. You might be surprised how much different it feels than wearing sweats all day.
Wow. You just about described my work day, down to waiting to take a shower as to stay out of my wife's way. She gets up at about 5:30am and is out of the house by 6:20. By then, I am already working and usually knee deep in something. By the time I finish what I am doing, it is usually after 8:00 am or so. 

However, I pretty much stay in basketball shorts and a tee shirt all day. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 24, 2020, 01:25:06 PM
But if you or anyone here wants one I'll happily make it for cost of material. 
Would be intersted in an end grain board perhaps,I have an older board that is 20"L x 14" W x 3/4" or 13/16" T.I also have 2 slightly smaller boards that are bamboo but I rotate them so they can be oiled and sit
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on March 26, 2020, 02:18:41 PM
...80 percent of the people I knew who had them were just odd ducks to begin with.
I resemble this remark.
:-)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2020, 02:57:10 PM
Me too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 27, 2020, 08:39:06 AM
FACT OF THE DAY:

In 1971, the Navy dispatched a team of dolphins “armed” with large carbon-dioxide-filled hypodermic needles strapped to their beaks to guard a U.S. Navy base in Vietnam. The dolphins were trained to deliver a fatal injection in humans’ lungs or stomachs. Provided by FactRetriever.com


just thought this was interesting.....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 27, 2020, 08:59:56 AM
Were they trained to recognize a US diver from a commie diver?I could see that one going horribly wrong
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 27, 2020, 09:23:40 AM
Walter Sobchak: The man in the black pajamas, Dude. Worthy f***in' adversary.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on March 27, 2020, 11:21:58 AM
COVID related, but in a sports way, so I'll put it here.  Matt Norlander was discussing something that hadn't occurred to me, schools re-evaluating buy games, particularly with regard to basketball, where schedules aren't finalized yet.

With no tourney revenue, and facing potentially a huge dent to football revenue depending on what happens there, schools can't afford to pay these teams to come in and get beat.  More and more schools are looking at high major vs. high major home and homes, with some sort of up front revenue split.  While that makes for better games, it kills the mid and small major schools that rely on that.  He said he had talked to one low major coach who said in his contract he has to get $450,000 worth of buy games each year, or the difference comes out of his contract/budget.

It also seems more and more uncertain whether this does allow us to have an on time college football season.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MichiFan87 on March 27, 2020, 11:42:27 AM
Most D1 teams that play for guarantee games only play up to 3 of them per year. In fact, most of them schedule just as many guarantee games against non-D1 schools themselves.

It's really only the SWAC and MEAC schools that play any more of them than that, and it's no surprise that those are always the two worst leagues in the country and really should just move down to D2.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 27, 2020, 12:54:43 PM
Leach appeared on 710 ESPN Seattle:

“Missouri’s got a Tiger and Arkansas has a Razorback,” Leach said. “I’ve got to think those Tigers would like to eat one of those Razorbacks. Tigers are pretty formidable and can swim, climb and claw. LSU and Auburn are the Tigers too; so, now we’re up to three Tigers.


“Alabama’s the Elephants. I think they’re the Elephants. They’re one that splits direction,” Leach explained. “As impressive as an elephant is, they say it’s scared of a mouse so it has a weakness somewhere.

“You look at it carefully and melt it all down, and I think you pretty much have to go with the Mississippi State Bulldog. I think he would chase the bears around. Ole Miss is trying to figure out if they’re the Bears or the Rebels. They’re a team without a mascot right now,” Leach continued. “I think even in pictures, Mississippi State Bulldog is a better looking Bulldog than even Georgia’s is.”

You can listen to Leach’s interview below:


https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/mississippi-state-football/mike-leach-discusses-sec-mascots-in-the-only-we-he-can/?fbclid=IwAR3XeMNIlqPGJldHSo6Zi-PojFT4uVRFJXb71ZJd_AGiVhUU5uxffA97t1M (https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/mississippi-state-football/mike-leach-discusses-sec-mascots-in-the-only-we-he-can/?fbclid=IwAR3XeMNIlqPGJldHSo6Zi-PojFT4uVRFJXb71ZJd_AGiVhUU5uxffA97t1M)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 27, 2020, 01:09:57 PM
He's a national treasure.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2020, 01:38:21 PM
I wonder if that is why the AD went totally crazy with scheduling later this decade.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on March 27, 2020, 02:51:41 PM
Kirk Herbstreit

This is bad for football fans ... ESPN star Kirk Herbstreit says he'd be "shocked" if there was NFL or college football in 2020 -- explaining it's just too dangerous with the COVID-19 pandemic.

The "College Gameday" host went on ESPN radio late Thursday and spelled out why he's so pessimistic about seeing America's biggest sport on the biggest stages.

"I'll be shocked if we have NFL football this fall, if we have college football. I'll be so surprised if that happens," Kirk said.

"Just because from what I understand, people that I listen to, you're 12 to 18 months from a [coronavirus] vaccine. I don't know how you let these guys go into locker rooms and let stadiums be filled up and how you can play ball. I just don't know how you can do it with the optics of it."

Kirk said if he was the NFL commish or in charge of the NCAA, he would shut it down ASAP -- "Next thing you know you got a locker room full of guys that are sick. And that's on your watch? I wouldn't want to have that."

"As much as I hate to say it, I think we're scratching the surface of where this thing's gonna go."

Kirk also says he doesn't think people realize how much time college and NFL coaches need to properly prepare their teams for the long season.

"You don't all of the sudden come up with something in July or August and say, 'Okay we're good to go' and turn 'em loose!"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 27, 2020, 03:08:37 PM
If we can't fill stadiums with fans I understand it

I'd like to see teams and support staff and cameras in the "empty" stadiums this fall
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 27, 2020, 03:10:13 PM
Kirk is now Dr. Bummer?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2020, 03:16:26 PM
IF we could check everyone involved in the game, I think they could be played, with empty stadia.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 27, 2020, 03:24:04 PM
players coaches and medical staff couldn't always practice good social distancing, but everyone else could

perhaps sideline rosters could be limited to 70 players like travel rosters a few years ago?

Cheerleaders could practice social distancing
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 27, 2020, 03:42:42 PM
Don't need cheerleaders if there is nobody in the stadium to lead.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 27, 2020, 04:07:08 PM
I appreciate the TV camera shots of the cheerleaders before going to commercial

won't be much else to hit with the camera
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2020, 04:56:02 PM
I wonder if student, being invincible, would gather around the stadium in large crowds during the game.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 27, 2020, 07:03:12 PM
well, there would be tailgating if allowed

the bars would be full if open
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 27, 2020, 07:05:51 PM
Budweiser Nitro Reserve Gold

tried my first glass tonight - not bad

pairs remarkably well with Schmidt's German Beer Summer Sausage and Lay's Chile Limon chips
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2020, 08:06:11 PM
Grilling flat iron tonight with some carrot-tater puree the wife is doing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 27, 2020, 09:04:03 PM
The Big Ten has extended its suspension of organized team activities through at least May 4.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on March 27, 2020, 11:29:09 PM
Did takeout at a favorite local place, a little higher end.  They were slammed w orders.   They've always done take out right.   Really nice sushi rolls and cioppino.   Very strange to see an otherwise buzzing place empty, with a long bar full of large paper bags for takeout and the house lights bright. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2020, 08:20:57 AM
We bought quite a bit of food and the wife complains I need to cook some of it, but she wanted Thai take out yesterday for lunch.  I think we'll do that today with a local place we like, Bangkok Thai, the first Thai restaurant in Atlanta they claim, in 1977.  Imagine not having a Thai restaurant around.

We have Vietnamese and Mexican places galore up Buford Highway.  That is an unusual area as some of the shopping centers (strip malls) have Chinese type symbols and others are called Fiesta American etc.  There is a nice Indian strip mall in Decatur, interesting to visit.

I can still recall the very first time I had "Mexican" food.  I was in college and this place opened up and none of us had a clue what kind of food they would have, we figured it would be too spicy, so we tried it, I got sick right after that and didn't have it again for years.  Ethnic food did not exist in normal places in the country back in the day other than some spaghetti places and a few French places that tended to be expensive.

The bistros in France often have excellent food at reasonable prices but the concept does not seem to translate here very well.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 28, 2020, 09:13:13 AM
Bistro here means $$$$.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2020, 09:42:23 AM
doing take out from the small town bar tonight for another birthday party - 8 to 10 of us.

unfortunately, when asking the owner of the bar, he stated he is cleaning out inventory because he has been losing money with the take out only and is planning to close next week.

Instead of a full menu or steaks, we're having Diablo shrimp and pasta with garlic bread.

I'm doing my part by bringing 3 growlers to salvage some of the tap beer.  Don't think he's supposed to fill outside growlers, but what are they going to do, shut him down?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 28, 2020, 09:44:33 AM
I'm doing my part by bringing 3 growlers to salvage some of the tap beer.  Don't think he's supposed to fill outside growlers, but what are they going to do, shut him down?
Prolly filling the cops growlers around the other side of the building
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2020, 09:53:14 AM
friggin Busch light drinkers
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 28, 2020, 10:24:29 AM
doing take out from the small town bar tonight for another birthday party - 8 to 10 of us.

unfortunately, when asking the owner of the bar, he stated he is cleaning out inventory because he has been losing money with the take out only and is planning to close next week.

Instead of a full menu or steaks, we're having Diablo shrimp and pasta with garlic bread.

I'm doing my part by bringing 3 growlers to salvage some of the tap beer.  Don't think he's supposed to fill outside growlers, but what are they going to do, shut him down?
:96:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2020, 10:27:06 AM
Bistro here means $$$$.
Well, $$ anyway.  This place isn't overly expensive.  But it's an Americanized version of a Bistro.


https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g60898-d1627177-Reviews-Bistro_Niko-Atlanta_Georgia.html

T (https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g60898-d1627177-Reviews-Bistro_Niko-Atlanta_Georgia.html)his is our usual choice:


https://www.atmospherebistro.com/

I (https://www.atmospherebistro.com/)t is operated by a French couple but also is Americanized to a degree.  The wife enjoys it anyway.

I'm more thinking of a French bistro in a small town in France, unpretentious, very good food for midteens pricing for dinner.  I think "we" think it needs to be glitzy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2020, 10:28:32 AM
I decided I'm going to donate my $1200 and use part to buy some expensive meals when things open back up to help this group, they have to be mostly failing already.

We moved here in part because so many places are walkable easily, and I fear that won't be the case for a while.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2020, 10:34:32 AM
if you have many places a certain percentage will survive

hopefully, your favorites are survivors
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2020, 10:36:05 AM
:96:
guilty as charged

I've got my fingers crossed
hopefully that works
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 28, 2020, 10:36:35 AM
Smoking a few slabs of baby backs for tonight. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2020, 10:39:18 AM
I don't see how ANY survive this really.  They will reopen at some point under another name I guess.  They still are paying rent, insurance, probably paying their managers.  The Chains will make it I think but we don't have many of those here.  One nice Italian place just opened, now take out only, opened last week.

A few are serving take out only of course, but they are the more casual places that do burgers etc. that are amenable to take out.

And the servers must be just going broke,  no $1200 will save them.  Of course, I'm spending way less now on dining out.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2020, 11:27:38 AM
obviously all depends on how long this lasts

and how well the owners and investors are financed

hopefully, they had something in savings and low interest loans and other help can float them long enough to survive 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 28, 2020, 11:42:00 AM
My i s c & a aggie wife and I have been on a pretty strict low-carb diet since Christmas, but today is her birthday and we're breaking it for that occasion.  I actually broke a little last night and had some wine, and beer.

Tonight we'll grab some Tex-Mex from one of our favorite local places, they're doing their best to stay afloat doing curbside and delivery, but it can't be great for their business.  Like most places around here, the margins come from drinks and alcohol sales, not food.

Anyway, looking forward to some store-made enchiladas, tacos, and margaritas this evening.  It'll be the first food I've eaten in 3 months that wasn't made by my wife or me.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2020, 11:45:07 AM
Happy Birthday to the Aggie
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2020, 12:46:11 PM
@Brutus Buckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=31) , you out there Brother?

anyone seen Brutus lately?

Last post was possibly a nice graphic regarding the evolution of Michigan football
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 28, 2020, 12:49:54 PM
anonymous coward has been well - anonymous also.He'd have some interesting takes recently as he is in the medical field and recent events seem in his wheel house
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 28, 2020, 12:51:57 PM
Smoking a few slabs of baby backs for tonight.
Please keep with our no pics policy - thank you for your support
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on March 28, 2020, 01:57:49 PM
anonymous coward has been well - anonymous also.He'd have some interesting takes recently as he is in the medical field and recent events seem in his wheel house
I think he announced a couple years back that he's staying off in the offseason going forward?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on March 28, 2020, 02:00:22 PM
I don't see how ANY survive this really.  They will reopen at some point under another name I guess.  They still are paying rent, insurance, probably paying their managers.  The Chains will make it I think but we don't have many of those here.  One nice Italian place just opened, now take out only, opened last week.

A few are serving take out only of course, but they are the more casual places that do burgers etc. that are amenable to take out.

And the servers must be just going broke,  no $1200 will save them.  Of course, I'm spending way less now on dining out.
I think Cheesecake Factory basically announced they weren't paying rent, and dared malls to evict them.  I could see more chains doing that, but like you said, no way non chains can do that.  Cheesecake Factory knows they can because nobody is jumping in in the meantime.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2020, 03:21:26 PM
I have an email into the manager of our local favorite restaurant asking how it's going.  They are selling pastries, cheesecake, and wine 5-9 PM curbside.

I may have posted this already.  I'm going to try out the SF burger place tomorrow.

I HOPE somehow it would be OK to open up restaurants that have outdoor dining areas with table spaced apart 6 feet.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 28, 2020, 03:32:48 PM
I think he announced a couple years back that he's staying off in the offseason going forward?

His last post was on the day Michigan got bashed by UW.



Another:

  • Chryst found 4th down and 3. The 2018 game looked a lot more impressive for Michigan (38-13) than it should have. It was still a one-score game at the half. And despite Taylor averaging close to 7 YPC, UW was punting on questionable 4th downs, both early in the game and late. It sort of felt like that was a form of self-elimination. Not this year. Chryst took all those risks, and each was the correct one. I wonder whether he learned more from the 2018 game or from watching Army-Michigan during the idle week. Both communicate the same thing about UW needing to go for it on 4th.



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on March 28, 2020, 04:05:54 PM
His last post was on the day Michigan got bashed by UW.



Well, that sort kicked off UMs offseason
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 28, 2020, 04:43:19 PM
Heh. I guess.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2020, 05:12:57 PM
I HOPE somehow it would be OK to open up restaurants that have outdoor dining areas with table spaced apart 6 feet.
when case numbers and death numbers are dropping

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 28, 2020, 07:27:21 PM
I miss going to restaurants.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2020, 07:34:01 PM
On the whole, 2020 will be better hindsight than being now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2020, 08:17:16 PM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidching/2020/03/25/marquee-home-and-home-series-are-making-a-comeback-in-sec-football/?fbclid=IwAR0ZNLIuUkjub-TO4y7JZSyydy9D4Dt4R6gIp_nV5S86zb07INlGnnz5Wx8#4ee4c57254b1 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidching/2020/03/25/marquee-home-and-home-series-are-making-a-comeback-in-sec-football/?fbclid=IwAR0ZNLIuUkjub-TO4y7JZSyydy9D4Dt4R6gIp_nV5S86zb07INlGnnz5Wx8#4ee4c57254b1)

Article about SEC teams stepping up their home and home scheduling practices, which is a good thing, if we ever have football again.  Ever.

The Bulldogs will play at least two Power Five, non-conference opponents in all 10 years of the 2020s, and they will play three in 2028, 2029, 2030 and 2031. Check out these future non-conference slates: in 2028, Georgia visits Texas and hosts Florida State and Georgia Tech; in 2029, the Bulldogs host Texas and visit Clemson and Georgia Tech; in 2030, Georgia hosts Clemson, Ohio State and Georgia Tech; and in 2031, the Bulldogs host Oklahoma and visit Ohio State and Georgia Tech. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 28, 2020, 08:49:08 PM
I'm not sure GA Tech counts anymore.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 28, 2020, 09:20:36 PM
On the whole, 2020 will be better hindsight than being now.
Have you ever said "man, it's been a long week!" and then realize it's Tuesday afternoon?

Yeah, that's 2020.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2020, 11:16:30 PM
I'm not sure GA Tech counts anymore.
Pretty much, they as bad as FSU.  Almost.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 28, 2020, 11:48:00 PM
Have you ever said "man, it's been a long week!" and then realize it's Tuesday afternoon?

Yeah, that's 2020.
You know how, in a movie, when the main characters are battling something, or isolated, or in a castle under siege, or marooned on the planet Mars, and they show the first few days of their struggle and it all looks really hard and/or lonely and/or terrifying and/or deadly... and then they skip ahead to day 33 and show the ongoing struggle... and then they skip ahead to day 97 and show the ongoing struggle... and on day 187 they show it continuing and the characters are worn and haggard and we understand that they have just been fighting and scratching and clawing one day at a time, for the entire time?

Right now we're all living that.  But it's only day 14 or so, and we don't get to skip ahead to day 33 or day 97 or day 187.  We're going to live each and every one of those days.  We're going to watch it all unfold seemingly in slow motion.  That's where we are right now, at the very beginning of that movie.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 29, 2020, 07:53:59 AM
Bullshit - bad movie,I'm not watching
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 29, 2020, 08:52:03 AM
Bullshit - bad movie,I'm not watching

Amen, brutha.

Thumbs down.  Would not watch again!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2020, 08:53:03 AM
I keep thinking how fortunate I am - aside from some IRA losses, which I can withstand.  I can pay my bills.  My two kids are employed stably (thus far).  One had to take a 5% pay cut.  I miss going out to eat, OK, but the folks out of work are in tough shape, most of them depended on tips for livelihood.  Schools are out, education has slowed, research has slowed in most areas I presume.  I'm in a kind of fortress in a way.  The grocery stores are mostly well stocked now.  I'm not sick (yet).  The wife is managing OK, I try and keep her positive (which she generally is).

The internet is up and running, we're supposed to get an upgrade this week.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 29, 2020, 12:18:00 PM
Please keep with our no pics policy - thank you for your support
Sorry, couldn't resist:

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2020, 12:25:34 PM
I've done ribs in that hot pot thing and they turn out pretty well I think (dry rub).

I'm going to do some again.  Ribs out have gotten pricey.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 29, 2020, 12:37:38 PM
Have you ever said "man, it's been a long week!" and then realize it's Tuesday afternoon?

Yeah, that's 2020.
Nothing matters but the weekend
From a Tuesday point of view



Switchin' to glide
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 29, 2020, 12:41:54 PM
@Brutus Buckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=31) , you out there Brother?

anyone seen Brutus lately?

Last post was possibly a nice graphic regarding the evolution of Michigan football
 
I'm alive. Just no sports for me to yap about.

Just crossed the country on I-70, which was pretty strange. It's a ghost town out there. Nothing but semis and uhauls and work vans. Hotels with only about a half a dozen people, including the staff. Like a zombie apocalypse, minus all the zombies (knock on wood).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 29, 2020, 12:46:11 PM
I keep thinking how fortunate I am - aside from some IRA losses, which I can withstand.  I can pay my bills.  My two kids are employed stably (thus far).  One had to take a 5% pay cut.  I miss going out to eat, OK, but the folks out of work are in tough shape, most of them depended on tips for livelihood.  Schools are out, education has slowed, research has slowed in most areas I presume.  I'm in a kind of fortress in a way.  The grocery stores are mostly well stocked now.  I'm not sick (yet).  The wife is managing OK, I try and keep her positive (which she generally is).

The internet is up and running, we're supposed to get an upgrade this week.
I'm also very lucky.
Will go to the office tomorrow and upgrade some internet packages - paycheck is almost certain to be cashed Friday
was out with 7 friends last night - good take out food and drink
will be golfing this afternoon with friends
I usually only go out to eat once a week or so - that hasn't bothered me much
I did send my daughter a check for $300 to help with rent since she's unemployed - not a big deal for me
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 29, 2020, 12:51:00 PM

I'm alive. Just no sports for me to yap about.

Just crossed the country on I-70, which was pretty strange. It's a ghost town out there. Nothing but semis and uhauls and work vans. Hotels with only about a half a dozen people, including the staff. Like a zombie apocalypse, minus all the zombies (knock on wood).
good to hear
stay safe
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2020, 02:11:31 PM
Many of us are very blessed and fortunate, and it is worthwhile to pause and reflect on that.

I do kinda wish the Dawgs would win another NC in my lifetime, but I'd be fine with a couple SEC CG wins.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 29, 2020, 03:18:23 PM
We got our biannual wine shipment from our wine club in Paso this week. Strangely, two boxes arrived from two different shipping services for us. Upon opening, we realized we'd been double-shipped but only charged once.

We called to let them know about the error and see what to do about it, and they said they could either have us ship it back at their expense, or keep it and they'd charge us but with ~25% discount.

So we got a lot of wine 😂
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 29, 2020, 03:39:36 PM
I'm headed to the golf course

cool and windy, but better than stuck in the house
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 29, 2020, 04:15:19 PM
Please keep with our no pics policy - thank you for your support
I did forget to take pics of this morning's biscuits and gravy. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 29, 2020, 05:09:10 PM
Got to figure out the block feature,that is a great way to start the day off
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 29, 2020, 06:06:58 PM
I'm headed to the golf course

cool and windy, but better than stuck in the house
Fore!

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2020, 07:57:27 PM
Try and do what you can to support local take out places.  Our local favorite was doing cheesecake today, I ordered three slices, he gave me five.  He told me tomorrow they would be doing limited menu take out dinners.  I'm in.

He's a super nice guy, very efficient as a manager.  Cafe Intermezzo.  We who have funds should reach out and help.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2020, 07:59:29 PM
When this is the HELL all over and done with, we need a serious reunion effort somewhere.  I volunteer.

Seriously.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MichiFan87 on March 29, 2020, 09:16:06 PM
I was thinking we could even do our own video meeting sometime. I've met some of you in person but not a lot of you and nobody recently.

I've done it with my family and some groups I'm involved in, and it's definitely helping me keep my sanity....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on March 29, 2020, 09:19:03 PM
It was BGE Olympics today, trying to maintain temp while the gusts were hitting 40mph.  I was wise to keep it simple w a couple tenderloins.  The overnight  homemade rub was the star.  Of course I wouldn't know the recipe, just make about a cup worth of it with whatever made sense last night  and try another one some other time down the road.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 29, 2020, 09:43:11 PM
My standard dry rub for pork (spare ribs, tenderloin, pork butt):

1/2 Bolner's Fiesta Pork Rub https://www.fiestaspices.com/product/pork-rub/ (https://www.fiestaspices.com/product/pork-rub/)
1/2 Montreal Steak Seasoning https://www.mccormick.com/grill-mates/flavors/seasoning-blends/grill-mates-montreal-steak-seasoning (https://www.mccormick.com/grill-mates/flavors/seasoning-blends/grill-mates-montreal-steak-seasoning)

Also, smear the meat with plain ol' yeller mustard before applying the dry rub

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 29, 2020, 09:54:59 PM
When this is the HELL all over and done with, we need a serious reunion effort somewhere.  I volunteer.

Seriously.
I'm in
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2020, 11:56:17 PM
We're in.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2020, 12:49:38 PM
It was BGE Olympics today, trying to maintain temp while the gusts were hitting 40mph.  I was wise to keep it simple w a couple tenderloins.  The overnight  homemade rub was the star.  Of course I wouldn't know the recipe, just make about a cup worth of it with whatever made sense last night  and try another one some other time down the road.
Why do I get the idea that to try to recreate this, you're going to have to imbibe the same collection of beverages to try to get the same things to make sense? :57:

I did the chicken fried pork tenderloin again last night. I had previously done it with only my wife; this weekend we have the kids so we tried again. It was a hit, as expected. I did a little better the second time around--I think the first time I was at the very edge of overcooking the batter in the fry oil--this time I dialed it back JUST a bit and it was perfect.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 30, 2020, 01:56:44 PM
Pork tenderloin is pretty damn good in any form.Isn't the chicken fried thing for cheaper cuts that need hammering?I would have no problem with what you whipped up though :character0029:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 30, 2020, 02:28:01 PM
I love to chicken-fry pork cutlets made from tenderloin.  Kids love 'em too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2020, 02:31:31 PM
Pork tenderloin is pretty damn good in any form.Isn't the chicken fried thing for cheaper cuts that need hammering?I would have no problem with what you whipped up though :character0029:
My wife has a poultry allergy, so she can't eat (and has never tasted) fried chicken. 

I was going for something that would have a similar flavor profile, so I used the tenderloin and cut it into big chunks rather than hammering it out thin and flat. 

It ended up with a flavor profile and texture closer to chicken thigh, which is what I was hoping for. I prefer leg/thigh pieces in my fried chicken anyway. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on March 30, 2020, 02:35:12 PM
A pork tenderloin sandwich, breaded, with red onion, mayo and pickles is one of the masterpieces of human history.  IN and Iowa has solved this wonderous offering.  

I was joking about my impromptu dry rub that I made, for a whole pork tenderloin which turned out great on the Egg, just have no freaking clue what was all in the rub.  G&Ts are to blame.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on March 30, 2020, 03:56:36 PM
Pork tenderloin is pretty damn good in any form.Isn't the chicken fried thing for cheaper cuts that need hammering?I would have no problem with what you whipped up though :character0029:
I make it different every time.  It's almost never a miss.  It's never a big time go to for me, but it's a really hard thing to mess up.

I've never had a good breaded pork sandwich outside the state of Indiana, but within the borders, they can do it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2020, 03:58:39 PM
the folks in Eastern Iowa can do it - almost as well as the Hoosiers

don't know about that hunk of land in between called Illinois
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2020, 04:00:22 PM
best weather we've had since early March - coming in AND going out like a Lamb chop

FORE!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2020, 04:28:24 PM
 (https://www.cafeintermezzo.com/midtown-atl-ga)https://www.ajc.com/sports/the-night-pascual-perez-got-lost-and-found-spot-braves-history/9kYEQZobWRdepdVuJsXxRJ/?ecmp=braves&utm_medium=social&utm_source=braves_fb&fbclid=IwAR1Qgf6a_WnFGvTj9_qtQWeCsi2YZnRG2g3tGv3dglsTSz-jFcqCUIEFCbY (https://www.ajc.com/sports/the-night-pascual-perez-got-lost-and-found-spot-braves-history/9kYEQZobWRdepdVuJsXxRJ/?ecmp=braves&utm_medium=social&utm_source=braves_fb&fbclid=IwAR1Qgf6a_WnFGvTj9_qtQWeCsi2YZnRG2g3tGv3dglsTSz-jFcqCUIEFCbY)

Funny baseball story.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on March 30, 2020, 05:37:49 PM
That story has never gotten old.  Its really funny when you are familiar w Atlanta interstate routing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on March 30, 2020, 05:52:52 PM
I've heard of the Indiana and Iowa style fried pork sandwich but never had one, sounds good.

Down here in Texico we'll chicken-fry pretty much anything and put it on bread, and there's also a strong German and Czech influence so schnitzel and its derivatives are pretty common.  So I've had breaded fried pork cutlet sandwiches, and chicken-fried steak sandwiches, and chicken-fried chicken sandwiches.  All can be delicious.

Is there something specific about the bread, or the breading, on the Indiana version that makes it unique?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 30, 2020, 06:15:23 PM
I've heard of the Indiana and Iowa style fried pork sandwich but never had one, sounds good.

Down here in Texico we'll chicken-fry pretty much anything and put it on bread, and there's also a strong German and Czech influence so schnitzel and its derivatives are pretty common.  So I've had breaded fried pork cutlet sandwiches, and chicken-fried steak sandwiches, and chicken-fried chicken sandwiches.  All can be delicious.

Is there something specific about the bread, or the breading, on the Indiana version that makes it unique?


That's what you'll see here and in Wisconsin.

We don't serve them on bread. It's already... breaded.

Chicken parmesan is similar. You don't see it on bread much here. You don't see it at all in Italy, but there are some similar dishes there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2020, 06:15:39 PM
One place here has chicken fried chicken, and it's tasty.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2020, 06:27:13 PM
I've had a good Indiana-style pork tenderloin sandwich, and... Eh? 

When you take that pork tenderloin and hammer the crap out of it until it's the size of a dinner plate--and about as thick, it seems like you've missed the point of buying pork tenderloin in the first place. 

And then you put it on a bun that is NOT the size of a dinner plate, so you have a sandwich that's 10" in diameter on a bun 4" in diameter. Which means that you have bites of sandwich that are not actually even a sandwich... (Although if you define "between bread" as a sandwich you could argue that any breaded meat is a sandwich--but I'm not going to agree with that).

And maybe I understand that folks like having some bites of sandwich and some bites of non-sandwich. But if you REALLY wanted that, why have it as ONE dish? 

The part inside the bun is actually pretty delicious. It's a good mix of ingredients and a good sandwich. Granted, it's damn near vegetarian, because the pork has been hammered so thin there's barely pork between the breading at all.

The part outside the bun? It's basically 90% breading because the pork is so thin, again, that there's barely pork there. It's basically eating deep fried breading... Which is DELICIOUS, hence why we bread and deep fry so many things. But the pork isn't anything more than a vessel to hold breading at that point because it's so thin.

So no... I don't get it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2020, 06:44:02 PM
https://www.cbs46.com/news/remember-this-monday-marks-three-year-anniversary-of-i-/article_c36763be-7295-11ea-80a6-dbc56e9aec2b.html?fbclid=IwAR29_R9f_jQcAlWyG3zw_6b10XHZkWyycpaPz9tlJYNiy6dRTSdpO7hGEzA (https://www.cbs46.com/news/remember-this-monday-marks-three-year-anniversary-of-i-/article_c36763be-7295-11ea-80a6-dbc56e9aec2b.html?fbclid=IwAR29_R9f_jQcAlWyG3zw_6b10XHZkWyycpaPz9tlJYNiy6dRTSdpO7hGEzA)

Bad news that turned into good news.

TLANTA, Ga. (CBS46) Monday marks the three-year anniversary of the fire that brought down a large section of I-85 in Atlanta, closing the highway and crippling traffic for weeks.
It all happened on March 30, 2017 near the intersection of Georgia 400. No one was injured in the fire but traffic was so bad, drivers abandoned their vehicles and left them on the roadway, opting to walk to nearby areas.
It took six weeks for crews to rebuild and reopen the collapsed portion of I-85, long ahead of schedule. The highway fully reopened on May 12 of that year.
Basil Eleby was accused of starting the fire. He later graduated from a transition program and was able to avoid charges.
Quote
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BREAKING RAW VIDEO: Part of I-85 collapses during major fire in Atlanta. WATCH LIVE COVERAGE >> http://bit.ly/1oIlosy  (https://t.co/Wh6S6CHyYl)

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Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2020, 06:48:08 PM
That section of I-85 is north of me maybe 2 miles, 6 lanes of freeway, they left the old freeway built around 1955 parallel to it.  They rebuilt it in record time.  I was glad I was not living here when it happened.  The guy who caused it completed a drug rehab program and appeared to be en route to a productive life.

We use the old freeway to access the new freeway now, except it usually was clogged with traffic anyway.  Not now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on March 30, 2020, 07:15:34 PM
I’ve been jogging/walking the steps in my house since my gym is closed down. It is 16 steps from the bottom to the top.  I go for 30 minutes but I’ve never counted how many trips up and down I take.  I always figured it was about 100 and probably over a 100.  The other day I decided to count my reps.  I was disheartened to see it was only 83 reps (I consider a rep to be going all the way up and then back down).

I did it just now and improved to 86.  It sounds sorry to say I’m not even averaging 3 trips per minute but I can tell you when I’m done I’m dripping sweat and my legs are jelly.  I’d like to work my way up to 100.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on March 30, 2020, 07:33:15 PM
Schnitzel is delicious as well.  Not too far off, the pairings are really the material difference. .  The pork tenderloin sandwich isnt meant to be pork tenderloin at its finest, but the glorious medley of so many simple luxuries at a low price point.   I like how the bun is diminutive, almost a throw away, delivery device for the mayo, red onion and pickles.  

It's why an Italian beef sandwich is so good, despite being nothing special on its face.  The medley is fabulous. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2020, 07:34:22 PM
I’ve been jogging/walking the steps in my house since my gym is closed down. It is 16 steps from the bottom to the top.  I go for 30 minutes but I’ve never counted how many trips up and down I take.  I always figured it was about 100 and probably over a 100.  The other day I decided to count my reps.  I was disheartened to see it was only 83 reps (I consider a rep to be going all the way up and then back down).

I did it just now and improved to 86.  It sounds sorry to say I’m not even averaging 3 trips per minute but I can tell you when I’m done I’m dripping sweat and my legs are jelly.  I’d like to work my way up to 100.
Steps are WAY harder than a walk, run, treadmill, etc. I recall when my brother who lives in Texas was bringing his son out here to CA and we were talking about going for a hike. I picked one that was 7 miles total, and he's like "Oh yeah, we go for distances like that ALL the time." He didn't realize that gaining 2000 ft elevation on a hike was FAR more important than the distance of the hike, because they didn't really have hills in the Corpus Christi area.

If you assume your steps are somewhere near average (7.5" rise), 16 steps is a 10' elevation gain. 83 trips would be 830' elevation gain. Given that you're ONLY going up and down and doing all that within 30 minutes? That's a solid workout. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on March 30, 2020, 07:38:52 PM
Running steps in basketball practice was the worst torture possible.  At least with lines, or deep sixes, seventeens or whatever teams called them, you weren't running the risk of tripping, skinning,  or otherwise flirting with fantastic injury.    

It is incredible conditioning though. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on March 30, 2020, 07:44:40 PM
Steps are WAY harder than a walk, run, treadmill, etc. I recall when my brother who lives in Texas was bringing his son out here to CA and we were talking about going for a hike. I picked one that was 7 miles total, and he's like "Oh yeah, we go for distances like that ALL the time." He didn't realize that gaining 2000 ft elevation on a hike was FAR more important than the distance of the hike, because they didn't really have hills in the Corpus Christi area.

If you assume your steps are somewhere near average (7.5" rise), 16 steps is a 10' elevation gain. 83 trips would be 830' elevation gain. Given that you're ONLY going up and down and doing all that within 30 minutes? That's a solid workout.
Thanks.  Because I know it certainly FEELS like a good workout.  I don’t feel like I’m loafing through it even though my pace naturally slacks off the longer I go.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2020, 08:08:48 PM
I do steps in the park after jogging/running.  I can job quite a ways, but steps ...

The good news is my legs held out in baseball fantasy camp and I have some hops back.

I'm doing at least 100 push ups a day also.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on March 30, 2020, 09:10:58 PM
I do steps in the park after jogging/running.  I can job quite a ways, but steps ...

The good news is my legs held out in baseball fantasy camp and I have some hops back.

I'm doing at least 100 push ups a day also.
I have a circuit I do in regards to lifting.  20 pushups, 20 dumbbell curls, 12-15 lateral dumbbell raises for shoulders, 20 air squats, 20 sit ups, and 20 pull ups on the Total Gym.  That’s a circuit and I do 6 circuits.  I do that every other day in between the days I do steps or jog or hike or whatever.  It’s a good workout for me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2020, 09:21:46 PM
I'm doing a lot of 12 and 16 oz curls.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2020, 09:27:32 PM
me too
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on March 31, 2020, 09:00:26 AM
actually I've cut way back because of not moving around so much.Except for one unit of Mr Beam's Elixir per day
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on March 31, 2020, 09:51:05 PM
well, that's crazy

just filled another growler
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2020, 07:32:59 AM
My pushup routine has improved a lot.  I am seeing it as being better than bench press.  And I think my shoulder is better for it.

I managed 120 yesterday, which is not bad for an old man.

Not at one time.  We have two sets of stairs in the condo so I get some up and down on them.  I bought some ribs at Kroger, they were $1.69 a pound, plan to do the hot pot thing.

Ribs and wings both have gotten insanely expensive "out".  I can remember quarter wings at places maybe 15 years ago.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 01, 2020, 07:48:46 AM
120 puish ups huh?I've got a tricky shoulder - pinched nerve - but you think it helped yours?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 01, 2020, 07:50:08 AM
well, that's crazy

just filled another growler
Maybe I'll join you and we can watch everyone else work out
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2020, 08:11:57 AM
120 puish ups huh?I've got a tricky shoulder - pinched nerve - but you think it helped yours?
Try planks for that nerve.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2020, 08:34:47 AM
120 puish ups huh?I've got a tricky shoulder - pinched nerve - but you think it helped yours?

My shoulder is fried from a game I pitched as a junior in HS, first game of the year and I was supposed to be the honcho on the mound.  I over threw and the next day I couldn't raise my arm at all.  I never had it looked at, back then you just had a "sore arm".  Mine was much worse.  On rare occasion, I could somehow throw about like I used to, but it happened sporadically and usually after doing a lot of pushups, so I'm trying it again.  My shoulder has gotten annoying in routine life of late.  It could just be partially healing from playing baseball.

I usually do three sets 45-35-35, sometimes 45-45-30.  They probably aren't the best pushups in the world but I keep my back straight and I think my back is benefiting as well.  I'm going to move to 4 sets today, I'm getting better at it.

I can barely throw a baseball today though I found an arm angle which is at about 30° that works with less pain.  I've never thrown from that position before and it feels weird, but if I drop down more or go more overhead it hurts pretty bad even with a lot of NSAIDs.

It was interesting seeing all the 40 year olds at Fantasy Camp go down on Day 2 with leg problems while I was still "running".  My legs held up quite well this past time.  The rookies were blowing out quads and calves and groins and hammies right and left.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 01, 2020, 08:54:15 AM
Dude I could go 20 maybe 25 before collapsing like a house of cards and resuming again.For years I thought I tore a muscle in my right throwing arm.Turns out all of those years it was a pinched nerve in my shoulder.I could have played outfield had I known.I always loved playing in the field more than hitting - I'm talking softball not sandlot hardball
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2020, 08:57:13 AM
When I started a few weeks ago, 20 was about all I could do without really cheating.  

It's like anything, but at my age it takes a lot longer to recover.  

In other good news, my piano playing is coming back albeit slowly.  My hand strength is much better.  I can play some of the easier pieces well enough that they sound like they should with some mistakes.  The harder pieces still look really hard.  I'm going after them slowly.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2020, 09:59:49 AM

Ribs and wings both have gotten insanely expensive "out".  I can remember quarter wings at places maybe 15 years ago.
Wings have gotten more expensive in general. They used to be useless throwaway pieces, which is why they became popular as bar food--they're cheap. 

But I recall a story a couple years ago talking about how wing pieces had become more expensive, per pound, than chicken breast. That's about the time that "boneless wings" started becoming more popular, because they were equal in price, or as cheap, as real wings.

But it kinda all makes sense... You can get a meal out of a single chicken breast, and chickens have two of them. A single meal of wings is ~12 wings, which requires all the wing pieces from three chickens. So economically it would make sense that wings are more sensitive to smaller changes in demand, because they're more relatively "scarce" per pound than breast.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2020, 10:05:08 AM
Yeah, that makes sense, but I prefer drum sticks over wings anyway.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 01, 2020, 10:45:10 AM
Try planks for that nerve.
I went to PT and still have these different colored rubber bands(for resistance indicating resistance strength)Truth be told I've gotten lax and should prolly start up again
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2020, 10:49:09 AM
I went to PT and still have these different colored rubber bands(for resistance indicating resistance strength)Truth be told I've gotten lax and should prolly start up again
My i s c &  a aggie PT wife says-- "Do your freaking exercises, or suffer the consequences."

So there you have it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 01, 2020, 10:52:44 AM
When I started a few weeks ago, 20 was about all I could do without really cheating. 
That's good to hear because fairly certain i embellished my numbers :040:




My i s c &  a aggie PT wife says-- "Do your freaking exercises, or suffer the consequences."

So there you have it.
Bossy Texicans
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on April 01, 2020, 11:25:48 AM
My ankles and shoulder were giving me trouble so I took a day off from running or the gym. Think I'll run today, maybe. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2020, 11:38:11 AM
That's good to hear because fairly certain i embellished my numbers :040:



Bossy Texicans
Well sure, but she's actually quite matter of fact about it.  If she has patients that tell her they're not doing their exercises, she tells them to go home.  If they don't want to get better, she's not going to waste her time.  She's one of the best PTs in Austin, at by far the best PT clinic in Austin.  They have a wait-list over a month long to get on their schedules.

But yeah, I'm sure you know better, and will heal up just fine. ;)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MichiFan87 on April 01, 2020, 11:55:13 AM
Well sure, but she's actually quite matter of fact about it.  If she has patients that tell her they're not doing their exercises, she tells them to go home.  If they don't want to get better, she's not going to waste her time.  She's one of the best PTs in Austin, at by far the best PT clinic in Austin.  They have a wait-list over a month long to get on their schedules.

But yeah, I'm sure you know better, and will heal up just fine. ;)


When I broke my leg and dislocated my shoulder (two separate incidents) I was supposed to see a PT and just didn't bother. Both healed fine (neither required any surgery thankfully).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 01, 2020, 11:57:18 AM
But yeah, I'm sure you know better, and will heal up just fine. ;)
Oh alright but those bands hurt when they break
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2020, 11:57:41 AM
Things like that should heal fine in general, but PT can ensure they heal "better" and "faster" and you get back to original mobility.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2020, 11:59:30 AM
I went to PT and still have these different colored rubber bands(for resistance indicating resistance strength)Truth be told I've gotten lax and should prolly start up again
for more strength, simply drink outta the growler
the pint glasses aren't heavy enough to build muscle, they simply tone muscle
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 01, 2020, 12:05:51 PM
Ya more weight fewer reps,thanx professor
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2020, 12:10:16 PM
same number of reps unless you're taking bigger sips!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 02, 2020, 09:17:38 PM
I've had a good Indiana-style pork tenderloin sandwich, and... Eh?

When you take that pork tenderloin and hammer the crap out of it until it's the size of a dinner plate--and about as thick, it seems like you've missed the point of buying pork tenderloin in the first place.

And then you put it on a bun that is NOT the size of a dinner plate, so you have a sandwich that's 10" in diameter on a bun 4" in diameter. Which means that you have bites of sandwich that are not actually even a sandwich... (Although if you define "between bread" as a sandwich you could argue that any breaded meat is a sandwich--but I'm not going to agree with that).

And maybe I understand that folks like having some bites of sandwich and some bites of non-sandwich. But if you REALLY wanted that, why have it as ONE dish?

The part inside the bun is actually pretty delicious. It's a good mix of ingredients and a good sandwich. Granted, it's damn near vegetarian, because the pork has been hammered so thin there's barely pork between the breading at all.

The part outside the bun? It's basically 90% breading because the pork is so thin, again, that there's barely pork there. It's basically eating deep fried breading... Which is DELICIOUS, hence why we bread and deep fry so many things. But the pork isn't anything more than a vessel to hold breading at that point because it's so thin.

So no... I don't get it.
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91895284_130038468589910_8017271149131988992_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_ohc=hivKzoCvc4YAX_UM8Zx&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=3cd0be3f9dc140d4b7dccbf7ba39b55a&oe=5EABFF96)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 02, 2020, 09:35:11 PM
STAY HOME!!

No more FORE. 

No more going to Kroger (Jewel, Safeway, Publix, Albertsons) or Walmart or Target every damn day. 

Just. Stay. Home.


Buy what you need, for two weeks. Get what you get. Go out only when you need to go out.





You want college football this year? If so, read the above.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 02, 2020, 10:20:42 PM
STAY HOME!!

No more FORE.

No more going to Kroger (Jewel, Safeway, Publix, Albertsons) or Walmart or Target every damn day.

Just. Stay. Home.


Buy what you need, for two weeks. Get what you get. Go out only when you need to go out.





You want college football this year? If so, read the above.

Take it to the Corona thread ya jackwagon.  Am I going to have to put you in timeout?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on April 03, 2020, 09:42:18 AM
Anyone else bummed without baseball, Baseball Reference is simming out the season, and tracking stats

https://www.baseball-reference.com/sim/leagues/MLB/2020.shtml (https://www.baseball-reference.com/sim/leagues/MLB/2020.shtml)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 03, 2020, 12:07:26 PM
yup, I'm bummed about any lack of live sports

watched the Vikings/Saints 2018 playoff game last night on Fox Sports - the Minneapolis Miracle!

it was much more entertaining than Fox News
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2020, 04:24:07 PM
So, the new heat pump is in and functioning well.  Hopefully it's more efficient.  The guy said the old unit was a cut rate brand and this is a Bosch.

He tested the AC part of it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 03, 2020, 04:27:10 PM
Do you have radiant heat in your building?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2020, 06:33:05 PM
Do you have radiant heat in your building?
Not that I know of.  The building is 31 years old.  It has been generally well maintained and updated.  Our unit is entirely forced air.  My electric bill averages about $120 a month or so.  We have two sides exposed with some very large windows, but it's north facing.  We get sun from the east in the AM but have curtains.  The south side units all have serious blinds.

The hot water is "free", which is nice (as is water).  I'm told there are two boilers on the roof and an evaporator.  I assume the evaporator only works in summer.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on April 03, 2020, 08:44:08 PM
Kids caught some little bass and nice sunfish this evening on bobber and worm tonight on lake behind house.  MH was skunked.  I was trying some deep rapalas having never fished this water before.  Little plastics did work too.  I'd rather bait cast and let kids beat me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2020, 10:43:35 AM
I am cleaning our small electric grill, soaking the grates, which is not great.  The grill had quite a bit of solid buildup of crunchies under the grates which I cleared.  This is a kind of nasty job.

The grill does  a much better job than I expected.  But it gets nasty fairly quickly.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 06, 2020, 01:34:10 PM
The Pro Football Hall of Fame has named Ndamukong Suh to the NFL All-Decade Team for the 2010s.

https://www.profootballhof.com/nfls-all-decade-team-of-the-2010s-defense/ (https://www.profootballhof.com/nfls-all-decade-team-of-the-2010s-defense/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 06, 2020, 09:45:14 PM
The art of faking injuries in college football

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/28991964/the-art-faking-injuries-college-football (https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/28991964/the-art-faking-injuries-college-football)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on April 06, 2020, 10:00:04 PM
So my 8 yr old did enough damage to her bobber that she started to lose a little interest on our third walk over to the lake, I managed to use parts of this bobber and a little sinker to fashion a little jig out of it, without the actual float. The plastic slips were still on the line, the float part broke off on the rocks, it kept the sinker and hook line in nice balance for easy casting and retrieval in these light wind conditions.   She found some large rocks to play with while the 11 yr old and I had the derby.  She still won again but it is always fun to catch fish when improvising.  Still to early for spoons and full bait casting beyond little plastics. 

Were heading down to a real lake for a couple days away from the main shelter in place, we should see some catfish and stripers. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 06, 2020, 11:14:41 PM
Good article on faking injuries.  I think the competition committee wimped out.  They should have gone ahead and established a mandatory sit-out time after injuries.  Mike Gundy is right for once.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 06, 2020, 11:21:02 PM
Ed Zachery

sit out until a change of possession
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 07, 2020, 01:59:30 PM
Damn - The Cleveland Plain Dealer closed it's doors after 178 years in business.Kinda hurts but not surprised.Might as well get Pravda with all the BS out there
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on April 07, 2020, 02:39:31 PM
Good article on faking injuries.  I think the competition committee wimped out.  They should have gone ahead and established a mandatory sit-out time after injuries.  Mike Gundy is right for once.
Disagree, unless you also want to ban Hurry Up and Wait offenses/
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 07, 2020, 03:25:49 PM
Disagree, unless you also want to ban Hurry Up and Wait offenses/
I don't think the comparison is valid at all.  It's obvious what is considered unsportsmanlike about faking an injury.  But what is unsportsmanlike about the hurry up offense?

There are already rules preventing the offense from substituting and running a play without giving the defense its own chance to respond and sub.  Is there something else that you consider unsportsmanlike in the HUNH?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on April 07, 2020, 04:12:18 PM
I don't think the comparison is valid at all.  It's obvious what is considered unsportsmanlike about faking an injury.  But what is unsportsmanlike about the hurry up offense?

There are already rules preventing the offense from substituting and running a play without giving the defense its own chance to respond and sub.  Is there something else that you consider unsportsmanlike in the HUNH?
Unsportsmanlike, no?  And it's not specifically hurry up no huddle, it's hurry up and wiat, for the express purpose of preventing substitutions.  If your goal is merely to exhaust the defense, I don't mind them countering.  I don't find that's unsporting any more than running to the line, rather than huddling, just to keep the defense tired.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 07, 2020, 04:25:09 PM
Unsportsmanlike, no?  And it's not specifically hurry up no huddle, it's hurry up and wiat, for the express purpose of preventing substitutions.  If your goal is merely to exhaust the defense, I don't mind them countering.  I don't find that's unsporting any more than running to the line, rather than huddling, just to keep the defense tired.
How is the lack of any motion from the offense "keeping the defense tired?"

As I said, if the offense subs, the defense can too.

If the offense doesn't sub, then what advantage are they gaining?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on April 07, 2020, 05:32:44 PM
How is the lack of any motion from the offense "keeping the defense tired?"

As I said, if the offense subs, the defense can too.

If the offense doesn't sub, then what advantage are they gaining?
If they didn't why would they do it?  What other reason is there to sprint up to the line, just to stand and stare at the sidelines for 30 seconds?

There were always more rotations on defense than on offense, particularly in the trenches.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 07, 2020, 05:35:36 PM
If they didn't why would they do it?  What other reason is there to sprint up to the line, just to stand and stare at the sidelines for 30 seconds?

There were always more rotations on defense than on offense, particularly in the trenches.
One reason for the offense to do it is to prevent defensive subs for specific down/distance situations, not necessarily to prevent the defense from getting rest. 

I simply disagree that there's any significant net advantage to the offense, since they aren't able to substitute either, when they choose to do this.

Faking injuries on the other hand is clearly unsportsmanlike. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 07, 2020, 05:40:23 PM
If they didn't why would they do it?  What other reason is there to sprint up to the line, just to stand and stare at the sidelines for 30 seconds?

There were always more rotations on defense than on offense, particularly in the trenches.
I don't think it's about making the defense tired as much as it's about limiting substitutions for run/pass situations.

They want to keep the defense in the same personnel package and then let the coach/OC pick the plays that best attack that personnel package.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 07, 2020, 06:50:26 PM
ELA: Do you have a suggestion to fix what you see as the problem, other than defensive players faking injury?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on April 07, 2020, 07:22:30 PM
ELA: Do you have a suggestion to fix what you see as the problem, other than defensive players faking injury?
I don't think you should be allowed to snap the ball within the first 10 seconds once the ball is snapped, unless you are inside the final two minutes of each half.  One of the blogs did an analysis of it, and I want to say it was like 8% of the time teams got to the line within 5 seconds of the ball being snapped, they actually snapped the ball in under 10 seconds.  92% of the time it is solely to prevent substitutions.

I as a viewer hate how it has removed replay and analysis from the broadcasts.  Teams aren't going necessarily faster, they are just spending more time standing at the line.  And from a football perspective, I think it has led to a dumbed down product.  Not sure Chip Kelly was the first, but he certainly popularized the idea, that if you just prevent substitutions, you don't need to actually run a complex offense.  Hurry Up and Wait has turned chess into checkers.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 07, 2020, 07:24:40 PM
You're using "snap" in two different ways.  Do you mean "set" the ball in the first instance?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 07, 2020, 07:30:28 PM
I just don't have a problem with limiting situational substitutions.  Fundamentally, that doesn't bother me.

Fundamentally, I'd be just fine with eliminating all substitutions and having the same 11 players on the field for a team at all times.  Fundamentally, I'd be just fine with eliminating the platoon system and playing both ways the entire game.

Fundamentally, I view that as an intriguing idea.  Really, really intriguing.  It could certainly serve to remove some of the unnecessary bloat.  11 guys on one team, going up against the same 11 guys from the other team, for the entire game.

Yup, the more I think about this, the more I like it. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on April 07, 2020, 07:32:08 PM
Yeah, sorry typo.

There's a reason Chip Kelly is trash now.  He was never a particularly brilliant offensive mind, he just knew how to exploit efficiencies.  Good for him.  Once everyone did it, it turned out he wasn't particularly clever.

It's been IMO, the biggest downside to analytics in all sports (at least football, basketball and baseball).  It's led to monolithic thinking, and a product that is not visually appealing.  You know what is the most efficient football?  Running to the line, standing there, and running one of like 4 plays.  The most efficient basketball?  Just jacking up threes, not within any sort of offensive flow?  Baseball?  The strikeout aversion made no sense.  Just swing for the fences, and who cares if you strike out.  Every AB is a HR, strike out or walk.

I'm not questioning that the methods are the most efficient.  But the diversity in the sports has unquestionably declined, and from a viewer standpoint, to me, it seems like the most "efficient" strategies, are the least watchable.

For football, I don't want 3 yards and a cloud of dust.  But I don't know how watching 22 guys staring at the sidelines for 30 seconds, just to throw a slant route to the slot receiver lined up on a LB is any better.  I would much prefer to watch the booth analyze the previous play while the coordinators match wits behind the scenes.  I'm sure young people love it, causal fans love it.  It's high scoring, defenses are neutered, but football has fallen clearly to #3 for me in my favorite sport rankings.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MichiFan87 on April 07, 2020, 07:49:10 PM
Wouldn't reducing the play clock mitigate a lot of this? I think the substitution rules are fine as they are.

Reducing the shot clock has been good for college basketball, along with this year's change to reduce the shot clock after offensive rebounds to 20. It certainly made games involving slow teams more watchable.

Michigan in Harbaugh's first 4 years was as guilty of killing clock for no good reason, even when they were behind. Thankfully Gattis has mostly fixed that.

I was annoyed when the rule changed that allows the clock restart before the snap after first downs and more recently when players go out of bounds. Reducing the play clock would counter those changes to increase the number of plays.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on April 07, 2020, 08:53:50 PM
I somewhat disagree. OSU has been big on the hurry up and wait offense, but it had changed and they have had a rather large selection of plays. I didn't watch any of their games this season and been bored by their play selection.

But a big problem is that there is no real advantage to huddling. Either the huddle is important to football and rules should reflect that, or not. Random thought, coaches shouldn't be allowed to communicate plays if the team doesn't huddle.

Personally, I'd like to see limits on substitutions and less communication between coaches and players.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on April 07, 2020, 09:16:28 PM
Random thought, coaches shouldn't be allowed to communicate plays if the team doesn't huddle.

Personally, I'd like to see limits on substitutions and less communication between coaches and players.
I'd be ok with that.

The NFL earpiece is one of the most asinine rule changes ever.  I'm not sure why that didn't get more pushback at the time.  Could you imagine if the batter and pitcher had earpieces?  The fury that would cause.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 08, 2020, 12:30:22 AM
  It could certainly serve to remove some of the unnecessary bloat.  11 guys on one team, going up against the same 11 guys from the other team, for the entire game.

Yup, the more I think about this, the more I like it. :)

Well hell don't stop there,leather helmets w/o facemasks.Train travel,barnstorming and playing for Kegs in the field next to the abandoned warehouse by the tracks.Ya that's the ticket ✔
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 08, 2020, 05:50:43 PM
Any recommendations on meat slicers? 

The bacon was a hit, so I'm planning on doing another (bigger) batch. And quite frankly, I'd love to start making things like pastrami, corned beef, roast beef, etc. 

I'm hoping to get enough use out of the thing to make it worth it rather than trying to cut things by hand, but at the same time probably won't use it enough that I want to spend a ton of cash. 

So "midrange" is the target.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 08, 2020, 06:02:40 PM
I have this one and I like it.

https://www.amazon.com/Waring-FS155AMZ-Professional-Slicer-Stainless/dp/B00HSBOVEU/ref=sr_1_2?adFormat=grid&adId=searchbar&adMode=manual&adType=smart&creativeASIN=searchbar&dchild=1&imprToken=UKJouHXNM3mji8k9Di7jAQ&impressionTimestamp=1586383153138&keywords=Waring+Pro+FS155AMZ+Professional+Food+Slicer&linkCode=w43&qid=1586383299&ref-refURL=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cfb51.com%2Fbig-ten%2F2020-offseason-stream-of-unconciousness%2F1288%2F&sig=undefined&sigts=undefined&slotNum=0&sr=8-2


Make sure you search through the site please.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 08, 2020, 06:12:32 PM
Does it give enough room to slice bigger things like bacon or brisket?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 08, 2020, 06:46:51 PM
No. You have to break it down prior to slicing. It's only a 7.5 inch blade, which means you really only have 3-3.5 inches to work with. So something thicker than that would be problematic.

But, if you're going to make a sammie, how big do you really need? If you're wanting that kind of capacity, you're looking at $700-$1000. 

For $150, I'd start with this thing and if you really want more, think about it long and hard. Unless you want to open a deli.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 08, 2020, 06:53:25 PM

For $150, I'd start with this thing and if you really want more, think about it long and hard. Unless you want to open a deli.
'Don't give him any ideas,he's prolly discussing this with his wife as we speak
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 08, 2020, 06:58:51 PM
No. You have to break it down prior to slicing. It's only a 7.5 inch blade, which means you really only have 3-3.5 inches to work with. So something thicker than that would be problematic.

But, if you're going to make a sammie, how big do you really need? If you're wanting that kind of capacity, you're looking at $700-$1000.

For $150, I'd start with this thing and if you really want more, think about it long and hard. Unless you want to open a deli.
It's more about the cutting stroke of the support, not the diameter of the blade...

I.e. a slab of bacon is only 1.5" thick or so, but it's maybe 8" wide/long.

A brisket flat won't be more than maybe 2.5" thick at its maximum, but I know I've seen brisket flats easily 10" wide/long.

So you need enough stroke to fully retract the meat and start the next slice... I'm wondering how long the stroke is. 

'Don't give him any ideas,he's prolly discussing this with his wife as we speak
I'm an engineer... Who wants to take that pay cut? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 08, 2020, 07:02:05 PM
I'm an engineer... Who wants to take that pay cut?
I dunno I know a family that has a fatastic Deli/Bakery,they've(the Family - Kids) all have done well and have 3 locations around town
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 08, 2020, 08:00:16 PM
Restaurant biz is tough. I grew up in it. 

No desire ever to get back into it that's for sure.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 08, 2020, 08:01:45 PM
Restaurant biz is tough. I grew up in it.

No desire ever to get back into it that's for sure.
Do you ship?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 08, 2020, 08:06:31 PM
Yeah...uhhh... no.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 08, 2020, 08:51:09 PM
easier to move into his neighborhood 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 08, 2020, 10:28:22 PM
The wife and I are going to a local restaurant tomorrow I've mentioned a few times to help pack boxes with food for hospitality workers out of a job.  Each box has a meal for a family of four.  It's not much of course, but it's a something.

The GM of this place is superb, and so is their food.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on April 09, 2020, 01:21:09 AM

It's been IMO, the biggest downside to analytics in all sports (at least football, basketball and baseball).  It's led to monolithic thinking, and a product that is not visually appealing.  You know what is the most efficient football?  Running to the line, standing there, and running one of like 4 plays.  The most efficient basketball?  Just jacking up threes, not within any sort of offensive flow?  

I'm not questioning that the methods are the most efficient.  But the diversity in the sports has unquestionably declined, and from a viewer standpoint, to me, it seems like the most "efficient" strategies, are the least watchable.

I stand in disagreement with this in both sports.

Flip on an old OSU-Michigan game. It's not particularly aesthetic. A lot of 1-back and I-form power and iso, with QBs who are poor at throwing ball. We still have air raids, power spreads, option teams, QB run teams, a few I teams (MSU!). 

I don't know if basketball is more or less diverse per say (I tend to think the diversity is about the same, give or take more of a dearth of hammer the post teams), but go back and watch basketball and you just have eras of either sloppy or unwatchable basketball. Even the glory years of the 80s, you just had a lot of bad players firing up kinda crappy shots giving way to the iso-heavy era. I had an old Wade-Bron game from the 2003 season come on at one point. And lord it was awful. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2020, 07:56:08 AM
I'm wondering how long the stroke is.

Not long enough for what you want to do with bacon.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 09, 2020, 08:44:31 AM
We still walk every day, 2.5-3.5 miles usually.  I've been mixing walking in the park with the subdivision north of us.  Most of the houses date from the 1920s and have interesting designs.  One typical feature is a large front porch, which is an alien concept to the wife, but she understands it now.

The buildings and houses in France typically have very thick walls.  They do not use wood frame clad construction, they basically stack a version of a cinder block with metal pintels where needed.  The older building can have a exterior wall thickness of several feet.  And they have functional shutters to keep light out.  They lack AC so all this keeps he interior cool in brief heat episodes, which is what they more typically endure.  This is why a prolonged hot spell can cause major issues.

Our older homes had a front porch for sitting after dinner and possibly a whole house fan (before AC).  Once the sun set, they'd retire, and it could be sticky at night.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansley_Park (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansley_Park)

The area declined some in the 1970s but recovered since.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 09, 2020, 09:53:33 AM
The buildings and houses in France typically have very thick walls.  They do not use wood frame clad construction, they basically stack a version of a cinder block with metal pintels where needed.  The older building can have a exterior wall thickness of several feet.  And they have functional shutters to keep light out.  They lack AC so all this keeps he interior cool in brief heat episodes, which is what they more typically endure.  This is why a prolonged hot spell can cause major issues.

Our older homes had a front porch for sitting after dinner and possibly a whole house fan (before AC).  Once the sun set, they'd retire, and it could be sticky at night.
As the son of an architect, I have a strong revulsion to homes that are completely "out of place". 

For example, my ex's family live in Newport Beach, so we'd often be walking around these waterfront homes on the Balboa peninsula or Balboa Island. We'd see some weird designs.

To me, it's a temperate climate, and the opposite of Atlanta. Because it never gets really hot, you want windows to let as much light in as you can. And especially for the people living on the water, you want big, tall windows facing the water to take advantage of the views you paid millions of dollars for. Most of the older homes in the area don't have AC either, but even in the worst bit of summer there's no humidity to hold heat in the air, so as soon as the sun goes down everything completely cools off.

Yet there are some strange designs. Very closed-up "cottage" looking houses with tiny windows. They'd be adorable in New England. Not in Newport Beach. There's one house that's built on an A-frame design. That's wonderful in Lake Arrowhead, but I'm pretty sure there's not going to be 2' of snow falling on your house on the Beach. You don't need an A-frame. There's one REALLY nice house that has a big wraparound porch, with big overhangs, wrought iron detail work, like it was plucked right out of New Orleans. Horrible for Newport Beach because that porch will ensure no direct light reaches the interior of the home. 

I just can't understand why some people are so wedded to some particular design aesthetic that they don't realize that it's completely wrong for the climate they're in and ends up being less functional as a result. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 09, 2020, 10:18:09 AM
Ansley Park has some ultra modern homes, not many, built in the 1960s on open lots somewhere, often wedged in, and they do look odd indeed.  This one is more typical at $3.8 mil.

(https://i.imgur.com/xLkO241.png)

This one was probably built circa 1965:

(https://i.imgur.com/RKlA1wc.png)

It's half the price of the other one.  

(https://i.imgur.com/0Z6GLAf.png)

This is a cheapie.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 09, 2020, 10:39:23 AM
This would be the largest weekly gain in stock prices since 1938 if the market holds for today (closed tomorrow).  That isn't some gimmick relying on up and down movements obviously.  I think it is signaling what appears to be the case from other data, the COVID crisis is not going to be as severe as seemed possible two weeks back.

I thought there was some chance of a breakdown in distribution of goods and general near collapse of the economy.  I've been buying a bit more of what I view as seriously undervalued stocks presuming we don't have a set back.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2020, 11:30:55 AM
I think the fundamentals of our economy are strong still. Obviously this event is causing a lot of pain for many people right now, and will for some time.

My biggest fear lies in the real estate side, and in particular office. Large offices might be a thing of the past for some companies, as they have adapted to working remote. If I were an office landlord, or had any holdings in that arena, I'd be very nervous right now. I'd also be nervous if I was a banker, with commercial loans out to office owners/developers.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 09, 2020, 11:48:01 AM
In the long term the economy will bounce back.

In the short term things are about to get really ugly, and really fast.

The skyrocketing unemployment-- especially that of people like restaurant workers, entertainment industry, etc. who were already living paycheck to paycheck with zero savings-- is now resulting in record levels of visits to the local food banks.  In our part of Central Texas, they're basically completely out of food.  Donations of money have dropped significantly as people start worrying about their own livelihoods, donations of food are pretty much zero because nobody wants to make those deliveries/pickups, and volunteer hours have dropped to almost zero as people aren't willing to risk exposure.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 09, 2020, 12:09:25 PM
I think the markets are looking past the terrible economic news we're going to see continuing.  This has not been as bad as it could have been.

That's my take.

SP500 up over 2% at the moment.  Up strongly for the week.  The news that took the markets down nearly 30% appears to be less serious than was believed.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2020, 12:44:41 PM
Yet, just yesterday morning, CNBC (duh) was running a piece that said that the current run was over. That didn't age well.

The MSM and the fear they promote has had a lot to do with what happened to the markets last month.

People are starting to see past that. At least it seems like it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 09, 2020, 12:50:56 PM
CNBC (which I use daily just to track numbers without logging on) always has opinion pieces saying the exact opposite of the other.  It's click bait.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MichiFan87 on April 09, 2020, 12:52:49 PM
I think the rebound over the past two weeks is just correcting the initial overreaction in March. I also don't think the SPX is going to hit 3000 before it goes below 2500 again but we'll see. The collapse of the hospitality and entertainment sectors are definitely going to have some long-term consequences.

I'm also interested to see what happens with commercial real estate. I think construction for office buildings will basically stop until companies figure out if/how much they want their employees to work remotely long-term (and/or how much employees gain in leverage to request doing more work from home).

I can tell you on the energy side, this is slowing down deployment of generation projects for wind, solar, and gas, alike, with each one similarly impacted. It could also accelerate the retirement of existing coal plants. It's also slowing down the deployment of energy efficiency projects, though.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 09, 2020, 12:56:03 PM
The construction projects around us are going to full bore ahead, and there are some very large ones in progress, no signs of stoppage.

I presume they are "under contract" and can't be slowed or stopped without payments.  We walk by or near this one fairly often because the process amazes me.

https://atlanta.curbed.com/2020/1/15/21067062/midtown-atlanta-selig-1105-west-peachtree-construction (https://atlanta.curbed.com/2020/1/15/21067062/midtown-atlanta-selig-1105-west-peachtree-construction)

This is another big one just up the street:

https://atlanta.curbed.com/2019/11/26/20982731/midtown-union-construction-boutique-hotel-partner (https://atlanta.curbed.com/2019/11/26/20982731/midtown-union-construction-boutique-hotel-partner)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 09, 2020, 01:03:09 PM
 donations of food are pretty much zero because nobody wants to make those deliveries/pickups, and volunteer hours have dropped to almost zero as people aren't willing to risk exposure.
Unloaded truck/trailer this morning,sorted and itemized produce and dry goods.Pantry is open tonite and will be loading vehicles,recipients have to stay in vehichles and gloves,masks and 6 ft are firmly enforced
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 09, 2020, 01:06:55 PM
Unloaded truck/trailer this morning,sorted and itemized produce and dry goods.Pantry is open tonite and will be loading vehicles,recipients have to stay in vehichles and gloves,masks and 6 ft are firmly enforced
That's awesome Mr. N, thanks for helping out your community!  We need about 50,000 more just like you!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2020, 01:48:46 PM
Fed Chair Powell says U.S. economy deteriorating with alarming speed



Well, no, Heather from the Washington Post, that's NOT what he said. This is an asshat headline, and more fear mongering from another rag "news"paper. This is what scares people, who take a headline and run with it. This crap has got to stop, but how??

There is no more reporting these days. Everything is an editorial.

This is what he actually said, quoted later in the article:

“People have been asked to put their lives and livelihoods on hold, at significant economic and personal cost,” Powell said in a Brookings Institution webcast. “We are moving with alarming speed from 50-year lows in unemployment to what will likely be very high, although temporary, levels.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/fed-chair-powell-says-us-economy-deteriorating-with-alarming-speed/ar-BB12o0Ak?li=BBnbfcN


I just shot Heather an email. We'll see if I get a response. Not gonna hold my breath.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 09, 2020, 02:56:42 PM
Yeah I'm sure she'll get right on that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 09, 2020, 06:45:43 PM
The wife and I were helping pack food boxes all afternoon for restaurant workers.  Main I am tired.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 09, 2020, 07:07:00 PM
You do realize that the journalist writer of the story usually isn't responsible for the headline, right? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 09, 2020, 07:26:58 PM
The wife and I were helping pack food boxes all afternoon for restaurant workers.  Main I am tired.
Just got back from the Food Pantry did 3hrs this morning little over two hrs tonite had I believe 12 volunteers.Each recipient received1 bag each of Dairy/meat,produce,asst'd dry goods .I believe 85 vehichles stopped.One guy who helps run the center took food to like 12 guys laid off from his shop
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on April 09, 2020, 07:28:56 PM
UW not granting the makeup senior year NCAA is allowing for spring sports

https://www.mlive.com/sports/2020/04/no-extra-year-wisconsin-tells-spring-sports-seniors-to-move-on.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=wolverines_sf&utm_medium=social

Anyone else hear chicks?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2020, 08:32:43 PM
You do realize that the journalist writer of the story usually isn't responsible for the headline, right?
Of course.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2020, 08:35:01 PM
UW not granting the makeup senior year NCAA is allowing for spring sports

https://www.mlive.com/sports/2020/04/no-extra-year-wisconsin-tells-spring-sports-seniors-to-move-on.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=wolverines_sf&utm_medium=social

Anyone else hear chicks?
This was expected, and I agree with it. The rationale applied here was that the rest of the student body isn't getting its semester back and it would be unfair to grant another semester/year to a small group. They've had their 4, and they will have their degrees. This thing has hurt everyone in this country. Nobody is above this.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on April 09, 2020, 08:48:57 PM
Except they can keep going to school, and only NCAA rules prevent the schools from granting indefinite eligibility/scholarships.  The NCAA lifted those rules.  Plenty of rules are being adjusted based on this, and there is no reason not to use the NCAAs modified rule.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on April 10, 2020, 12:05:37 AM
UW not granting the makeup senior year NCAA is allowing for spring sports

https://www.mlive.com/sports/2020/04/no-extra-year-wisconsin-tells-spring-sports-seniors-to-move-on.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=wolverines_sf&utm_medium=social

Anyone else hear chicks?
Spring sports are not the biggest deal at UW. It would affect about 35. I wonder what it would actually cost. I'd assume less than a mil. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 10, 2020, 07:29:43 AM
Well, the wife voluntold me to help with the food boxes tomorrow, which is today, which is pretty soon, and it got chilly and windy here, very windy.

That whipped me yesterday, the boxes weight about 12 pounds and I was schlepping them all over, and at one point we had to move all the yogurt from one reefer to another for some reason.  They have two reefer trailers that were full of food items, potatoes, eggs, bacon, yogurt, fruit, all of which has to be packed into these boxes which are then sealed and counted and labeled.  The boxes are for anyone in the restaurant business laid off, they were aiming for 3500 boxes.  I am amazed how many boxes that is.  I feel like I moved and schlepped about 20,000.

We were both too tired to fix dinner so I got takeout from the Nook and told them about the boxes.  I'll probably have to take an ibuprofen today.

We both wanted to do something.  All this is in a parking lot, all the food donated, and a homeless guy wondered by and they told him to break down the empty boxes for an hour and they'd give him food.  He was actually very coherent, poorly dressed, obviously homeless, but laughing and carrying on.  I'd guess he has a drug problem.  The eggs and bacon and rolls had to be cooked, but they could give him fruit and yogurt obviously.  I hope the wind hasn't led to issues.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 10, 2020, 07:45:42 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/N57qoJK.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 10, 2020, 08:14:28 AM
Spring sports are not the biggest deal at UW. It would affect about 35. I wonder what it would actually cost. I'd assume less than a mil.
Barry said it was not about the cost. I guess I'd have to believe him. He did say all would be graduating. Time to move on. This sucks for everyone. Life deals out some bad cards sometimes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 10, 2020, 12:52:26 PM
the Chinese and the World Heath Organization dealt the rest of the world some bad cards
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 10, 2020, 12:55:47 PM
the Chinese and the World Heath Organization dealt the rest of the world some bat carts
F.I.F.Y.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 10, 2020, 01:14:22 PM
0h geez
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 10, 2020, 06:16:56 PM
Texas is a pretty cool state except it is filled with Texicans.  Except for UT Erin, she is pretty nice.  Very pretty also,  but married.  As am I.

Happily.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 10, 2020, 07:17:34 PM
did that w/o an edit

nice work
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 11, 2020, 09:58:49 AM
Texas is a pretty cool state except it is filled with Texicans.  Except for UT Erin, she is pretty nice.  Very pretty also,  but married.  As am I.
Happily.
Stop sipping Glycerin
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 11, 2020, 10:46:04 AM
At one time, my old company produced a hand cream.  From time to time we'd sit in a seminar given by an expert in some area of some product we sold, or might sell.  At times they were interesting, in this one the guy said all hand creams are based on glycerin and some kind of fat, or oily substance to coat the skin.

An example is glycerin plus say petrolatum or mineral oil.

The rest of the additives are marketing gimmickry, aloe, Vitamin E, whatever can be advertised but contributes nothing.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2020, 11:13:39 AM
So, we are starting to toy with the idea of going to Florida in May, for a few weeks. I had 3 weeks of vacation scheduled already, for that cruise and stuff that was canceled by China.

Just a change of scenery would be good. That and we would like to paint some of the walls. I'd need to buy a grill.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 11, 2020, 12:00:11 PM
purchasing a grill is good therapy 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 11, 2020, 12:01:06 PM
I'd need to buy a grill.
What type of grill are you thinking? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2020, 12:13:07 PM
(https://product-images.weber.com/Grill-Images/Gas/292101_1800x1800.png?auto=compress,format&fit=fill&h=950&w=1000&trim=color&trimtol=10&bg=0FFF&pad=50)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 11, 2020, 12:18:15 PM
Webers do cook evenly watched a segment on ATK where they rated them.If I bought a new grill it would be there smaller 2 burner that garnered hi ratings also.I have a 26 year old grill with the Thermos name,not sure if they manufactured it.Every 2-3 three years I gut it and install new burner assmeblies and it's good to go.They certainly make those things cheap these daze
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2020, 12:26:53 PM
This one has a lot of features, which I like. It has a smoker box, which I would use quite a bit. I'm not planning on having a charcoal grill in my outdoor kitchen as I don't want to have to install a hood. So I can get some of the "grill flavor" by infusing smoke.

Not that I can't do a hood, but I'd rather not. The lanai is pretty large and under cover, so I'd have to compromise the roof to install one. I don't want to do that.

It also has rotisserie, which I like a lot. I love gyros and I can make them with that, and also turkey, chicken, etc. It has a searing station to put that final touch on a piece of meat. It has a side burner, which is also useful.

https://www.weber.com/US/en/grills/gas-grills/291101.html?cgid=8#start=1

This is the one for me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 11, 2020, 03:05:31 PM
This is what I want...

http://www.azbbqgrills.com/page/

(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.azbbqgrills.com%2Fpage%2Fphotos-3%2Ffiles%2Fpage7-1001-full.jpg&hash=d15cd7883982b845fedba2eb3386d667)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2020, 03:07:25 PM
That would be something. Do you need to go that big for your smoking? I know I asked earlier because of the slicer.. you going into the food business?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 11, 2020, 10:04:23 PM
That would be something. Do you need to go that big for your smoking? I know I asked earlier because of the slicer.. you going into the food business?
I just want it ;-) 

It definitely is unnecessary because I don't even like people. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 11, 2020, 11:26:38 PM
This is what I want...

http://www.azbbqgrills.com/page/

(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.azbbqgrills.com%2Fpage%2Fphotos-3%2Ffiles%2Fpage7-1001-full.jpg&hash=d15cd7883982b845fedba2eb3386d667)

Well I certainly like the Longhorn logo.



Good to see you folks coming around.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 11, 2020, 11:51:00 PM
I just ate a whole pizza.  So that's fun.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 12, 2020, 08:25:17 AM
This is what I want...

http://www.azbbqgrills.com/page/

(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.azbbqgrills.com%2Fpage%2Fphotos-3%2Ffiles%2Fpage7-1001-full.jpg&hash=d15cd7883982b845fedba2eb3386d667)
Looks like something Casey Jones kept stoked
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 12, 2020, 08:27:20 AM
That would be something. Do you need to go that big for your smoking? I know I asked earlier because of the slicer.. you going into the food business?
He's an engineer - why would he want to go to work 😎
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 12, 2020, 10:38:19 AM
USC Study: Hangover Remedy Could Also Protect Liver

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/usc-study-hangover-remedy-could-also-protect-liver/2344552/ (https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/usc-study-hangover-remedy-could-also-protect-liver/2344552/)

for MrNubbz
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 12, 2020, 11:21:13 AM


As FF is placing an online order for the product  :party0036:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 12, 2020, 11:41:47 AM
through this site on Amazon!

of course

my liver could use a positive bump
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2020, 11:56:05 AM
Thank you for your support.

I ordered some too. This thing has me drinking too much. I'm going dry tomorrow for a while.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 12, 2020, 12:09:59 PM
got into the wine last night with my daughters - after getting into the beer in the afternoon

didn't have a ham in the freezer, so had fillets and lobster tails from the Kansas City Steak Company

was pretty good
(https://scontent.foma1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/93419754_10216986349110172_8290195163783888896_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=w_LLo0k3-pAAX8IW_KG&_nc_ht=scontent.foma1-1.fna&oh=f00d32fcd715378a073447eb2b2ccc99&oe=5EB89718)

(https://scontent.foma1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/93049720_10216986354710312_3729791858029625344_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=HAR60qIo4_kAX9PdHSG&_nc_ht=scontent.foma1-1.fna&oh=bf8956555a6dce8ab67580540a8c81b8&oe=5EBAA3B2)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2020, 12:15:28 PM
Nice.

I'm doing carnitas, skirt steak, smashed potatoes and green beans today. Use what ya got and all that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 12, 2020, 12:20:48 PM
My i s c & a aggie wife managed to find a ham at the grocery store the other day.  So we're having that, plus sausage cheese grits, deviled eggs, 7-layer salad, and an egg casserole that's a tradition in her family.

We're also letting her folks swing by the house and pick up to-go containers of food off the back patio and talk to our kids through the window, at noon.  And we gave my parents a slot at 4 for the same thing.  I felt SO sad for my parents, they ordered curbside at the grocery store and the store didn't have any ham, and subbed in a tiny little "ham steak."  When I told them we had plenty and they were welcome to share it, they were so grateful.

The small things...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 12, 2020, 12:22:17 PM
I smoked a couple racks pork spare ribs yesterday and was going to do a brisket today, but forgot to pull it out of the freezer yesterday.  It could be because we got into the tequila at about 2 in the afternoon and after 4 pitchers of margaritas, things got a little.... fuzzy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 12, 2020, 01:01:18 PM
Damn Fearless for a poor old dirt farmer that's some pretty hi fallutin' fare there.Like how you used plastic utensils,nice touch
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on April 12, 2020, 01:11:48 PM
Parents sent me some veal chops for birthday, time to eat those.   Rosemary themed marinade forthcoming.   
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2020, 01:12:52 PM
I smoked a couple racks pork spare ribs yesterday and was going to do a brisket today, but forgot to pull it out of the freezer yesterday.  It could be because we got into the tequila at about 2 in the afternoon and after 4 pitchers of margaritas, things got a little.... fuzzy.

You should order some of those liver pills too, amigo...  :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2020, 01:13:47 PM
Happy Easter, for those who celebrate.

It's a weird time. Today is also our 23rd anniversary. So, we celebrate at home.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2020, 01:31:37 PM
Lamb chops and roasted potatoes and peas for us.  The wife wanted Champagne, and believe it or not, we are out, so I'm chilling.

I'm also chilling a Cremant de Loire.  Pinot noir I find is a nice pairing with lamb.

I may have mentioned before that I often enjoy an austere white wine with steak, like a Sancerre.  I find it sort of cleans and freshens the pallet instead of a heavy red that can somewhat "compete".

I also recommend something non-sweet to have with dessert for that reason.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 12, 2020, 02:29:21 PM
Damn Fearless for a poor old dirt farmer that's some pretty hi fallutin' fare there.Like how you used plastic utensils,nice touch
the box of steak and lobster was a gift from a contractor I work with

Fillets and lobster tails aren't my usual choice - but they were very good last night

the fork on the left is odd colored because it somehow got in my luggage at the Wynn in Vegas - not plastic.  Actually quite heavy
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on April 12, 2020, 04:16:22 PM
I did have my wife give me a little haircut trim today.  Pretty successful.   I didn't let her touch my bangs or top really at all, just clean up the ears and neck.  I don't mind my hair getting long, I've pretty wild curls, I just don't want a mullet. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 12, 2020, 07:50:51 PM
You should order some of those liver pills too, amigo...  :)
Yeah I won't say that's a "normal" day for us, and indeed we didn't consume any alcohol at all for the first 3 months of this year, but yeah...

...we might have overindulged a bit yesterday.  But it was also cathartic.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 12, 2020, 07:53:36 PM
As far as haircuts, I'd already been putting it off for about 2 months before all this began. So my hair is looking pretty crazy long and shaggy now. 

Think... John Stamos with full-on mullet from early seasons of Full House.  Yeah, that's where I'm at these days. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on April 12, 2020, 10:32:14 PM
My girls have run through all of the Full House and Fuller House episodes these past months.   I suspect they would get this gag.   I don't think I've ever sat through an entire episode of either show. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2020, 08:01:36 AM
The lamb shanks were good, they were precooked Costco packaged and ready to microwave,   Yes, I'm find with the convenience if the product is good.  I'm going to use the leftovers in lentils today for dinner.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 13, 2020, 08:02:54 AM
As far as haircuts, I'd already been putting it off for about 2 months before all this began. So my hair is looking pretty crazy long and shaggy now.

Think... John Stamos with full-on mullet from early seasons of Full House.  Yeah, that's where I'm at these days.
How's Aunt Becky holding up?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 13, 2020, 08:39:53 AM
Is that the chick who bought her kids enterance into SoCal?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 13, 2020, 08:47:32 AM
Hey man, they were really good at rowing!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 13, 2020, 08:57:18 AM
Ya know so parents bought there kids in - that's obviously wrong.What is the country going to do about the insider trading?I'm looking at you finestein - priorities
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2020, 09:01:30 AM
The insider trading thing is easily handled I think for most politicians by mandating blind trusts, or at minimum having them all have their funds professionally managed by others.  Well, easily handled if Congress really cared to handle it.

I know USC is a pretty good school, but I don't consider it to be elite.  Were I to cheat, I would have aspired for Stanford anyway.  I also opine that for the most part, your undergrad degree granting school is not all that important as long as it's decent.  It may be a something in say engineering.

I'm a bit surprised it's against the law to cheat like that.  Mail fraud is it?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2020, 09:24:57 AM
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/the-truth-about-isaac-newtons-productive-plague (https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/the-truth-about-isaac-newtons-productive-plague)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 13, 2020, 10:33:47 AM
Busy day yesterday... Added 4 shelves in our pantry cabinet; now there's much more usable space and it's a lot more organized.

Ground >8# of brisket point and chuck roast for my burger blend, got it all vacuum-sealed and frozen. Also took care of portioning, vacuum-sealing, and freezing all the rest of the meat haul I got at Costco on Thursday. 

Dinner was ham, roasted red potatoes, and sous vide glazed carrots. With a chocolate ganache tart for dessert. Pretty simple easter fare, but since it was just us and the kids, not entertaining, we wanted to keep it easy. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 13, 2020, 10:39:57 AM
The insider trading thing is easily handled I think for most politicians by mandating blind trusts, or at minimum having them all have their funds professionally managed by others.  Well, easily handled if Congress really cared to handle it.

it would be very easily handled if the guilty actually went to jail for quite a while
shit would STOP
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 13, 2020, 10:50:40 AM
I remember back in the '80s,when the Dept of Justice actually still prosecuted wealthy white collar wonks.When Ivan Boesky,Michael Milken and their ilk got pinched Dennis Miller remarked "when you get on the other side of those prison walls insider trading takes on a whole new meaning".That's what needs to happen throw them in with the sodomites

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2020, 10:52:35 AM
It's not that easy to prove insider trading in most cases.  If a person uses a money manager, it's obviously tougher.

And of course, if I KNEW the direction a stock would follow over the next month or so, I'd use options for leverage, I wouldn't just buy or sell the stock.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 13, 2020, 12:22:32 PM
perhaps not absolute proof, but I'm not reasonably doubting those Senators are clean.

The evidence I've heard is good enough for me.

How many "other" traders besides those Senators dumped more than a million dollars worth of stock on that day?  Perhaps only a few of their close friends and associates such as their stock broker???

Good for them, I'm not on the jury
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2020, 12:34:02 PM
Imagine they sold say two million in stock and used the proceeds to buy another two million in companies that did as poorly?  Imagine the sales were conducted by their money managers without their knowledge or input?  Imagine the two million is a small portion of their portfolio and they have routinely sold, and bought, two millions worth fairly often at various intervals and this is just more of the same?

There are scenarios wherein this could be perfectly fine.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 13, 2020, 01:38:48 PM
yes, I agree, but this is not the scenario as I understand it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2020, 01:45:19 PM
Loeffler, I think her name is, claims that all her money is externally managed and she has no input.  I don't know if that is true or not, but it should be verifiable.  The NS Senator asked for a review, so I'll wait and see what that produces.  Burr I think he is.  Feinstein claimed she did nothing wrong.

I found the news reportage of these events to be, um, poor and misleading, but that isn't a shock.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 13, 2020, 01:50:50 PM
I have managers for almost all of my holdings. 

I could call a manager right now and tell him to sell everything and sit in cash, if I thought the market was going to crash tomorrow. It sure seems like that's what these people did, but it's hard to prove. My main manger has managed pretty well for me so far thought this thing. I'm down 7 percent overall, which could be worse.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 13, 2020, 02:51:19 PM
so, how many accounts does Loeffler's manager control???

did they all dump over a million dollars, or was it just her's and her manager?

this is not rocket science and you don't need the wiretap tape of the conversation

My guess is that these 5 or so Senators will get a stern reprimand at the most - BULLJIVE!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2020, 04:40:44 PM
I'm all for looking into it, all of it, carefully, I'm just not yet inclined to say I've heard enough to claim they are guilty.

I read several media reports that were highly misleading (there's a shock) relative to known facts.  And Loeffler claims all their stocks are managed by someone else, again, check this out and find the truth.  She recently claims she moved everything into index funds.  She in an election, so one can expect some falsehoods to be perpetrated, and expect her to paint a rosey picture.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on April 13, 2020, 06:33:37 PM
White collar crimes are still prosecuted. The Feds still go after insider trading.

The facts for the various senators are not all the same, and from what I understand many, if not all, have pretty good defenses, including: don't manage their stock sales, in blind trust, purchase/sale activity no different than any other time, etc. Made for a good headline, and may snare one or two cheats, but probably isn't as big a deal as the media and online echo chamber would have us believe.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 13, 2020, 06:56:11 PM
the one fact that is the same......... five senators that were included in the briefing ALL sold millions of dollars of stock within 24 hours of the meeting

I'd just like to know if this was an oddity or if thousands of other sold nearly everything they had in the market?

also, had these 5 senators EVER sold that much stock at once before?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2020, 07:16:46 AM
Yup.  Those questions should be answered.

Loeffler and her husband have a net worth of about $500 million, most of that invested, so selling say $2 million in a day is probably not an unusual event.

(To note, I barely know anything about her, have no like or dislike for her, and think this should be investigated.)

If any of us have say half a million in stock, and one day sell $2,000, it wouldn't be unusual at all.

The disclosures included that between January 24th and February 14th, the couple sold between 1.275 and 3.1 million dollars worth of stocks, in 27 companies, as well as purchasing stocks worth between $450,000 and $1 million, including in Citrix, a collaboration software company.[25] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_Loeffler#cite_note-25)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 14, 2020, 08:03:27 AM
the one fact that is the same......... five senators that were included in the briefing ALL sold millions of dollars of stock within 24 hours of the meeting

I'd just like to know if this was an oddity 
 it's odd these knobs would think us bereft enough to buy their bullshit
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2020, 08:50:46 AM
Get the facts first, and then draw conclusions.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 14, 2020, 08:56:26 AM
The disclosures included that between January 24th and February 14th, the couple sold between 1.275 and 3.1 million dollars worth of stocks, in 27 companies, as well as purchasing stocks worth between $450,000 and $1 million, including in Citrix, a collaboration software company.[25] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_Loeffler#cite_note-25)
I have no like or dislike for her either, not concerned what party she might represent.

This does not seem too far out of line
seems like a decent investigation could narrow things down from $450, 000 and $1 million
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2020, 09:11:17 AM
They are required to report stock sales and purchases but the ranges given are generous, that is why the range here is generous.  

If they had five sales for example, they might report by checking some box (between $50,000 and $250,000" in value, and that compounds the range over five sales.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 14, 2020, 11:07:21 AM
It seems Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Richard Burr (R-NC) could be in the toughest spot.

Burr has asked the Senate Ethics Committee to review his trades. The FBI is reportedly investigating him, while thus far, the other senators say they have not heard from the FBI or the Justice Department. Burr has also been sued civilly in the federal district court in D.C. by an investor in Wyndham Resorts, one of the stocks he sold.

Burr handles his own investments. He may regret that.

Burr has issues. He sold off 33 stocks worth between $628,000 and $1.7 million (the required disclosures are reported in frustratingly wide ranges), amounts that “appear to be a significant share of his holdings.” The defense he offers is that he was following CNBC’s reporting on the growing coronavirus hazards. That may be true, but it is not especially convincing. If he received non-public information in this period that would significantly add to or change the picture painted on CNBC, he could be in serious legal jeopardy.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/congress-insider-trading-controversy-richard-burr-unique-legal-jeopardy/ (https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/congress-insider-trading-controversy-richard-burr-unique-legal-jeopardy/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 14, 2020, 11:13:39 AM
Time to bend over.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 14, 2020, 11:22:46 AM
why would a republican be following CNBC’s reporting???  red flag!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2020, 11:28:05 AM
why would a republican be following CNBC’s reporting???  red flag!
CNBC is not obviously partisan, nearly as I can tell.
I agree Burr has some explaining to do.  Get the facts.


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/sen-burr-i-sold-stocks-because-tv-reports-not-inside-n1165036

I (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/sen-burr-i-sold-stocks-because-tv-reports-not-inside-n1165036)t is a large percentage of his holdings.  Other investors did not sell such a large portion of their holdings even if they monitored CNBC.

SPY right now is at about the same point as it was on March 10.  The markets started dropping the last week in February.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2020, 11:29:42 AM
Stock transactions of lawmakers are reported in ranges. Burr’s Feb. 13 selling spree was his largest stock selling day of at least the past 14 months, according to a ProPublica review of Senate records (https://efdsearch.senate.gov/search/). Unlike his typical disclosure reports, which are a mix of sales and purchases, all of the transactions were sales.
His biggest sales included companies that are among the most vulnerable to an economic slowdown. He dumped up to $150,000 worth of shares of Wyndham Hotels and Resorts, a chain based in the United States that has lost two-thirds of its value. And he sold up to $100,000 of shares of Extended Stay America, an economy hospitality chain. Shares of that company are now worth less than half of what they did at the time Burr sold.
The assets come from accounts that are held by Burr, belong to his spouse or are jointly held.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2020, 11:31:12 AM
The Feb. 13 date is significant because the sell off did not start until around Feb. 22, e.g., when other investors started to worry about this based on public information.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on April 14, 2020, 12:08:08 PM
Yeah, from what I've read, Burr is the one with real legal trouble. Loeffler has political trouble, but probably not legal trouble. Feinstein and Inhofe seem to be pretty clear on this. I care at least a little because Feinstein is my senator, so I have to decide whether to vote for her (and she did have a significant challenger last time). Of course, at her age, it's unlikely I'll have that chance again. It seems her husband, who holds his assets separately from hers (hers are in a blind trust), sold a significant stake in a cancer-treatment company--not exactly the kind of business directly impacted by the COVID-19 situation. The sale was also consistent with his trading history (he's a very wealthy guy, so large stock sales aren't uncommon). Additionally, she was not at the two, early COVID-19 briefings.

More will be learned--but it seems there is a lot more to the story, in different directions, for these four.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 14, 2020, 06:50:23 PM
I like the defense of "My stock sales were not made because of the classified briefings about an imminent pandemic I received, but because of what I saw on a late-night infomercial!"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 14, 2020, 06:58:55 PM
Yeah, from what I've read, Burr is the one with real legal trouble. Loeffler has political trouble, but probably not legal trouble. Feinstein and Inhofe seem to be pretty clear on this. I care at least a little because Feinstein is my senator, so I have to decide whether to vote for her (and she did have a significant challenger last time). Of course, at her age, it's unlikely I'll have that chance again. It seems her husband, who holds his assets separately from hers (hers are in a blind trust), sold a significant stake in a cancer-treatment company--not exactly the kind of business directly impacted by the COVID-19 situation. The sale was also consistent with his trading history (he's a very wealthy guy, so large stock sales aren't uncommon). Additionally, she was not at the two, early COVID-19 briefings.

More will be learned--but it seems there is a lot more to the story, in different directions, for these four.
And now he might have more. The townhouse he sold to a donor/lobbyist. That could be a problem, since it was sold off-market for more than it was worth.

I would accept his resignation, right now. Do you think I should give him a buzz?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 14, 2020, 07:59:53 PM
apparently he's not even liked by Republicans
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2020, 09:27:44 PM
Maybe Burr has some real excuse, but I have not found it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 14, 2020, 10:03:12 PM
Wisconsin's Zack Baun, the third-rated linebacker on Mel Kiper Jr.'s draft board, notified all 32 teams that he tested positive for a diluted sample at the NFL scouting combine that he blamed on drinking too much water for weight-related weigh-in purposes, league sources told ESPN's Adam Schefter on Tuesday.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 14, 2020, 10:04:14 PM
I think we are erring on the wrong side if we think elected officials are A-OK if it cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that they have committed crimes.

They should be like Caesar's wife--above suspicion.  If we have to wonder whether they are trustworthy or not, they need to go.

Off the top of my head, I think we've been entirely too tolerant of criminal politicians--Huey Long comes to mind because we're reviewing the New Deal era in AP U.S. History right now.  That guy was an organized crime outfit all by himself.  And yet he is still beloved in parts of (all of?) Louisiana.

Public office is a public trust.  It's not like being CEO of  Fortune 500 company.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 15, 2020, 02:04:17 PM
Robert Irvine is gonna be busy this year, with all of the restaurants that will need saving.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2020, 08:08:20 PM
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29040498/what-take-texas-nebraska-football-really-back (https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29040498/what-take-texas-nebraska-football-really-back)

usually, when the Huskers and Horns are mentioned in the same breath, it's a good thing

What will it take for Texas and Nebraska football to really be back?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2020, 08:11:22 PM
2015 Badgers - Huskers in Lincoln!  BTN
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 16, 2020, 08:19:44 PM
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29040498/what-take-texas-nebraska-football-really-back (https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29040498/what-take-texas-nebraska-football-really-back)

usually, when the Huskers and Horns are mentioned in the same breath, it's a good thing

What will it take for Texas and Nebraska football to really be back?
For Texas, winning two consecutive Big 12 conference championships.  That might be a tall order, as the Horns have won one Big 12 championship since 2005, and that one was in 2009.  The issue seems to be on-field coaching, as they keep reeling in highly ranked recruiting classes.
For Nebraska, going to the B1G CCG three years in a row, and winning one of them.  To do that, the Huskers have to be able to stop the run.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2020, 08:26:33 PM
agreed

doesn't seem probable in the next couple seasons
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 16, 2020, 08:30:01 PM
No.  Not probable.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2020, 07:33:48 AM
When Texas beat UGA I think a lot of "us" figured they were "back".  Maybe not.  As noted above, you need to do something consistently over 2-3 years to be "back" at the level they were at back in the day, which is receding in the rear view of course.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 17, 2020, 09:05:37 AM
Winning a bowl game is nice.

Losing 5 or 6 games per year isn't.

Sucking sucks.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2020, 09:21:58 AM
Texas fans are used to a 9-4 season being a down year.  Or they were used to that.

Imagine Ohio State suddenly collapses and goes 4-8, 5-7, 8-5, 5-7 .... impossible really to imagine.  They'd be doing to coaching merry-go-round also.  

Your team is always one mediocre coach away from looming mediocrity.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 17, 2020, 09:22:19 AM
Lots of snow on the ground here in the Paradise known as Illinois. I look forward to leaving Paradise.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on April 17, 2020, 09:31:59 AM
Lots of snow on the ground here in the Paradise known as Illinois. I look forward to leaving Paradise.
I'm a good bit more north than you'll be, and it's a bit chilly this morning at 56. Don't worry though, we'll hit the mid-70s most of the afternoon.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2020, 09:39:48 AM
Another perfect day here, just perfect.  Springs and falls here are usually perfect aside from occasional rain.

The wife enjoys the heat, so summer works, and winter of course is chilly but pretty mild, one can go out for a walk most days and even at night it's often not terrible.

I'm wondering why I stayed 38 years in Cincinnati.  I got used to it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 17, 2020, 09:48:59 AM
Another perfect day here, just perfect.  Springs and falls here are usually perfect aside from occasional rain.

The wife enjoys the heat, so summer works, and winter of course is chilly but pretty mild, one can go out for a walk most days and even at night it's often not terrible.

I'm wondering why I stayed 38 years in Cincinnati.  I got used to it.
Yeah same here.  We've had a really really mild Spring so far.  Lots of highs in the upper 60s, a few into the 70s, and only one day in the 90s so far.  Normally I'd have to switch my runs to the morning, but so far afternoon is still working great.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 17, 2020, 09:56:52 AM

What will it take for Texas and Nebraska football to really be back?
In short Texas - Coaching,Nebraska - Recruiting
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 17, 2020, 10:02:47 AM
Supposed to only hit a high of 65 here today... Supposedly scattered showers tomorrow, but we'll see. 

I'll need to brew some beer this weekend, and would prefer tomorrow, but maybe it'll push to Sunday.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 17, 2020, 10:06:40 AM

I'll need to brew some beer this weekend, and would prefer tomorrow, but maybe it'll push to Sunday.
Of course this should always be on the bucket list,w/o interference from the wife.And you can tell her we support you in your decision.........somewhere Fearless is proud
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on April 17, 2020, 10:11:20 AM
Winning a bowl game is nice.

Losing 5 or 6 games per year isn't.

Sucking sucks.
I wonder if the Big 12 title game as it's presently structured changes perception. Like in the past, you could be Texas, go 10-2 and not have the possibility of losing an extra game.

I think Texas would be all but back with three years in a row of 9-3 and not making the title game or 10-2 heading into the conference title game with at least one of the latter. With like a blend of some kind of postseason success (like 2-2 in the bowls/conference title game). Maybe they have to go to multiple conference title games and win one. 

It's weird because on the one hand, you want to tie it to conference titles. But Texas has three in 24 seasons, and one of those teams was 7-4 heading and pulled off a dumb upset. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2020, 12:24:44 PM
In short Texas - Coaching,Nebraska - Recruiting
I'm texting Coach Frost now

He needs to know
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2020, 12:26:00 PM
It's weird because on the one hand, you want to tie it to conference titles. But Texas has three in 24 seasons, and one of those teams was 7-4 heading and pulled off a dumb upset.
Damn it!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2020, 01:16:29 PM
The NCAA Eligibility Center is waiving the standardized test score requirement for incoming freshman student-athletes in both Division I and Division II for the 2020-21 academic year because of the coronavirus pandemic, the governing body announced Friday.

Students who expect to graduate from high school in time to enroll in a Division I school this coming academic year will be academically eligible by earning a combined 2.3 grade-point average in the 10 NCAA-approved core courses, with a combined seven in English, math and science prior to the start of their senior year. There is a 2.2 GPA requirement in 10 NCAA-approved core courses for Division II schools.


https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29049387/ncaa-waives-test-scores-freshmen-eligibility (https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29049387/ncaa-waives-test-scores-freshmen-eligibility)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 17, 2020, 01:28:26 PM
I wonder if the Big 12 title game as it's presently structured changes perception. Like in the past, you could be Texas, go 10-2 and not have the possibility of losing an extra game.

I think Texas would be all but back with three years in a row of 9-3 and not making the title game or 10-2 heading into the conference title game with at least one of the latter. With like a blend of some kind of postseason success (like 2-2 in the bowls/conference title game). Maybe they have to go to multiple conference title games and win one.

It's weird because on the one hand, you want to tie it to conference titles. But Texas has three in 24 seasons, and one of those teams was 7-4 heading and pulled off a dumb upset.
If I were King of the NCAA for a day, I would dictate that all conferences play full round-robin schedules and ban conference championship games.
The Big 12 (-2) actually had it right for a few years, albeit from necessity rather than choice.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2020, 01:32:27 PM
I would cap conferences at 12 members and make each P5 team play at least 10 P5 level teams a season.

I would think about saying if the review booth can't make a decision in 60 seconds the ruling stands.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 17, 2020, 01:34:32 PM
Yeah, limiting the time for review to 60 seconds is worth consideration.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2020, 01:37:36 PM
I would cap conferences at 12 members and make each P5 team play at least 10 P5 level teams a season.

I would think about saying if the review booth can't make a decision in 60 seconds the ruling stands.
10 teams, nine round robin conference schedule

6 big boy conferences = 3 play in playoff games
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 17, 2020, 01:53:41 PM
The NCAA Eligibility Center is waiving the standardized test score requirement for incoming freshman student-athletes in both Division I and Division II for the 2020-21 academic year because of the coronavirus pandemic, the governing body announced Friday.

Students who expect to graduate from high school in time to enroll in a Division I school this coming academic year will be academically eligible by earning a combined 2.3 grade-point average in the 10 NCAA-approved core courses, with a combined seven in English, math and science prior to the start of their senior year. There is a 2.2 GPA requirement in 10 NCAA-approved core courses for Division II schools.


https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29049387/ncaa-waives-test-scores-freshmen-eligibility (https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29049387/ncaa-waives-test-scores-freshmen-eligibility)
That's not going to help a lot of schools, to be honest. NCAA requirements are bare bones. This is what UW requires (19 total for most athletes):

(LMAO Statistics...)

[th]Subject Area[/th]
[th]Years[/th]
English4
Math *4
Social Studies3-4
Science3-4
Single Foreign Language **3-4
Additional Academic/Fine Arts2
Total Units19-22


* Math requirement includes at least one year each of algebra, geometry, and advanced math, or an integrated sequence of courses. If you take any of these courses in middle school, that will count toward the requirement. Courses that will not fulfill this requirement include: statistics, business math, and computer classes.

NCAA: What are core courses?



Not all high school classes count as NCAA core courses. Only classes in English, math (Algebra 1 or higher), natural or physical science, social science, foreign language, comparative religion or philosophy may be approved as NCAA core courses. Remedial classes and classes completed through credit-by-exam are not considered NCAA core courses.



Classes that are NCAA core courses include:



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on April 17, 2020, 02:40:56 PM
I would cap conferences at 12 members and make each P5 team play at least 10 P5 level teams a season.

I would think about saying if the review booth can't make a decision in 60 seconds the ruling stands.
I wonder about the understated byproduct of this would be a dent in the sport's financial fortunes. 

One of the interesting quirks in the sport is that quality and popularity are highly intertwined. On average, if your program is more popular, it can create better financial backing and that can buy tools (coaches, facilities, illicit payments. What's also interesting is that success drives finances as well, i.e., if UGA won four games a year it would make less money than if it won nine a year. 

And what's interesting about a system that cuts down on P5-G5 or FCS games basically is transferring losses, on average from those worse teams to better ones and more notably from less popular teams to more popular ones. So on an average year, NIU or Western Michigan might go from 5-7 to 7-5, but a mid-tier P5 team might go from 8-4 to 6-6 and be just as good (or a Big Ten team like Illinois might miss a bowl). 

Now this factors in because our standards of success likely won't shift much, even if records shift some. Almost one feels better about a good 7-5 than a softer 8-4. So there's a net loss in joy for the most popular teams, which end up drawing the revenue. 

(A shorter version would be this, because of the more fish bowl nature of the NFL, more fanbases are not happy with the results than in college. And we'd be moving closer to that sort of thing on the P5 side, which accounts for the most people)

Not that it would be an impediment, but it would be an interesting externality. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 17, 2020, 02:53:34 PM
I'd cap the at 11. Play 10 conference games, no CCG. 66 P5 teams.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MichiFan87 on April 17, 2020, 03:02:10 PM
I've suggested this before, and I still think the best solution is to add a 13th game for all schools while doing away with conference championship games and also go to 10 conference games.

This would allow every school to average 7 home games per year even if they play 2 tough non-con games per season, leaving the 13th game as a guarantee home game.

Of course the aftermath of this pandemic situation could change college sports in ways that we can't even predict....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2020, 03:05:59 PM
The better teams, like top 20, really only play 4-5 games a year for the most part, maybe 6 for the last 5 of that group at times.  Maybe.

Half your schedule is an almost guaranteed win, no drama, barring some 25 point upset.

For the top ten, it's  might be 2-3 games that really matter.  I'll grant a team two pastries, but no more, aside from conference play.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CatsbyAZ on April 17, 2020, 07:27:23 PM
For anyone who is ever wondering what Penn State's Larry Johnson is up to, he's very active on twitter, ranting like an Ancient Aliens episode in his endless promotion of conspiracy theories, especially those pertaining to Satanism, Illuminati, and other world control by the global elite. 90% of his tweets relate to Satanism governing Pop Culture.




Exhibit C:

https://twitter.com/2LarryJohnson7/status/1250900552646615051
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on April 17, 2020, 07:35:12 PM
The better teams, like top 20, really only play 4-5 games a year for the most part, maybe 6 for the last 5 of that group at times.  Maybe.

Half your schedule is an almost guaranteed win, no drama, barring some 25 point upset.

For the top ten, it's  might be 2-3 games that really matter.  I'll grant a team two pastries, but no more, aside from conference play.
Auburn, the No. 14 team in the country, played seven games in which the closing line was 7.5 points or less. So 30 percent of their schedule was a "guaranteed win," and that's with a couple decidedly not good teams in the division.

No. 10 Minnesota was a bit worse, 46 percent of the schedule was two TD underdogs or worse, and the other seven games has spreads of 7 1/2 or less. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2020, 07:39:50 PM
Yeah, a few have 7 real games.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 17, 2020, 08:11:18 PM

Exhibit C:

https://twitter.com/2LarryJohnson7/status/1250900552646615051
Well, pop culture is pretty rancid, but it has nothing to do with C-O-R-O-N-A adding up to "666."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2020, 08:42:40 PM
Most of us would go bonkers if we ran for 2,000 yards at 7.7 ypc and 20 TDs for a helmet program and finished 3rd for the Heisman, too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 17, 2020, 08:42:46 PM
So Corona Extra is the debbil?

Does that mean that Tony Romo manning the Corona hotline is just a lesser demon?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on April 17, 2020, 10:37:30 PM
Most of us would go bonkers if we ran for 2,000 yards at 7.7 ypc and 20 TDs for a helmet program and finished 3rd for the Heisman, too.
I forgot he was that productive. 

And then I checked back why he only finished third. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 18, 2020, 01:40:06 AM
So Corona Extra is the debbil?

Does that mean that Tony Romo manning the Corona hotline is just a lesser demon?
I'd imagine you feel like hell if you're a regular quaffer
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 18, 2020, 09:06:54 AM
Corona is bad beer.  The clear bottle doesn't help that's for sure.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2020, 09:18:42 AM
Corona is bad beer.  The clear bottle doesn't help that's for sure.


I think even if protected from light it would be mediocre at best.  I don't get it, but the wife likes it when we're at the beach with the lime thingee.

There is plenty of good beer out there obviously.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 18, 2020, 09:29:56 AM
some folks enjoy bad beer

if not, it would go away
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2020, 09:36:22 AM
"Enjoy" might not be the right term in many cases.  Everyone else is doing it.  Why do I drink Corona on the beach?  Because the wife wants the stuff, and she doesn't drink much beer.  And yes, I will pick up something more substantial, but at times sitting on the deck looking at the ocean, I'll join her.

I can quaff it OK.  I don't so much enjoy the beer as the ambiance.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 18, 2020, 09:40:35 AM
hopefully your wife enjoys it

some men try to tell me they drink Bud light or miller lite because the wife likes it and it's just easier to buy an 18-pack than to buy 2 12-packs, one for each

it's bull
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 18, 2020, 09:42:44 AM
Watching Wisconsin kick Iowa's ass now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 18, 2020, 09:43:18 AM
"Life is too short to drink bad beer."

-King Henry VIII
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 18, 2020, 09:57:16 AM
Testify 94 Testify

“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” pretty sure it's in the Bible ;D
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 18, 2020, 10:00:08 AM
Headed out to the Live Oak brewery today.  By Texas law they're allowed to sell up to a case per person directly to the public, so I'll take the i s c & a aggie wife and we'll get two cases.

They're hurting right now, business is down about 50% since they did a ton of draught business selling kegs to bars and restaurants. They only packaged about 40% of their product to sell in grocery stores/liquor stores, and the other 10% sold at their tap room.

So I'm doing my part to increase their packaged sales, and buying directly from them allows them to harvest all of the margin.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 18, 2020, 10:15:03 AM
I think even if protected from light it would be mediocre at best.  I don't get it, but the wife likes it when we're at the beach with the lime thingee.

There is plenty of good beer out there obviously.
Ya know corona stumbled into a good thing.Most of the preppies/yuppies who made it big didn't realize that they were stuffing limes into the bottles because it was basically warm hot dog water.They gussied up the bottle with palm trees and make commercials by the beach and the prepsters go for it hook,line and sinker.If they ever entered a blind taste test Corona would finish behind Hot Dog Water....from the vendor's cart
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 18, 2020, 10:42:33 AM
preppies/yuppies

we call em douchebags around here
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 18, 2020, 11:00:18 AM
Bags/Nozzles let's not split hairs
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 18, 2020, 11:10:21 AM
Headed out to the Live Oak brewery today.  By Texas law they're allowed to sell up to a case per person directly to the public, so I'll take the i s c & a aggie wife and we'll get two cases.

They're hurting right now, business is down about 50% since they did a ton of draught business selling kegs to bars and restaurants. They only packaged about 40% of their product to sell in grocery stores/liquor stores, and the other 10% sold at their tap room.

So I'm doing my part to increase their packaged sales, and buying directly from them allows them to harvest all of the margin.
Good stuff, utee. Gotta support the good ones through this.

I hit the wine bar for a charcuterie platter and two nice bottles to go yesterday. Planning on having one of those bottles with a nice rack of lamb tonight. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 18, 2020, 11:24:23 AM
Doing a bistro meal tonight. Got some flat irons, making homemade fries and some asparagus tips. Just made the compound butter, with Herbs d' Provence. That will sit all day.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 18, 2020, 11:46:50 AM
some folks enjoy bad beer

if not, it would go away
How else to explain the success of Heineken?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2020, 12:18:04 PM
How many here liked beer when they first tasted it?

I didn't.  I got to where I could drink it with pizza and that was it.  We could drink legally at 18 when I was 18, and nobody looked closely if you were 17-.

I didn't like wine either, the Boone's Farm swill was all I could abide.

So, these "light beers" with limes are beers for people who don't like beer, in effect, but they want to fit in.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 18, 2020, 12:37:43 PM
People who don't like beer drink Scotch and Tito's.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 18, 2020, 01:25:18 PM
How many here liked beer when they first tasted it?

I didn't.  I got to where I could drink it with pizza and that was it.  We could drink legally at 18 when I was 18, and nobody looked closely if you were 17-.

I didn't like wine either, the Boone's Farm swill was all I could abide.

So, these "light beers" with limes are beers for people who don't like beer, in effect, but they want to fit in.
Good points.

So what sort of person drinks Heineken, the definition of stinky beer?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on April 18, 2020, 02:28:53 PM
How many here liked beer when they first tasted it?

I didn't.  I got to where I could drink it with pizza and that was it.  We could drink legally at 18 when I was 18, and nobody looked closely if you were 17-.

I didn't like wine either, the Boone's Farm swill was all I could abide.

So, these "light beers" with limes are beers for people who don't like beer, in effect, but they want to fit in.


The first time I really drank beer to have a good time, I think I actually poured it into a soda. And then I got smarter and did that with hard liquor. And then I mouthed off to an officer of the law. I might've also smoked a little pot. 

It was a weird night.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on April 18, 2020, 02:29:22 PM
Good points.

So what sort of person drinks Heineken, the definition of stinky beer?
I didn't drink it until later in life, and once I did, all I could think was, why this?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 18, 2020, 02:47:53 PM
Heineken was like the Emperor with the new clothes.  When everyone's a semi-novice at drinking beer, and there's this premium beer imported all the way from Holland, who wants to be the one to say, blech!!!?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 18, 2020, 02:50:33 PM
I prefer Belgian beers, if I'm drinking beer. I "like" some German ones too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 18, 2020, 02:53:18 PM
I will heineken seems to be skunked by the time it gets here,maybe light penetration
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 18, 2020, 03:04:35 PM
Isn't it made here now? Or is still strictly an import??
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2020, 03:08:44 PM
Forbidden fruit, like Coors once was east of the MS.  I saw similar stuff when I was in the wine business (sort of).  Folks would come in with their lists.

I remember filling in on Saturday when a lady came in asking for Kendall Jackson chard cold, and when I said we didn't carry K-j, she said "What kind of wine store doesn't carry Kendall Jackson?".  I sent her to the Kroger down the street.

K-J is the largest wine operation in the US now on a dollar basis and they do make some excellent wines.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 18, 2020, 04:44:57 PM
I think you can do much better for the money they snag.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on April 18, 2020, 05:21:34 PM
My grandparents used to drive to Las Vegas from Minnesota a lot. In the 70s, this meant loading the trunk in Julesburg with Coors.

On one particular trip, they had a flat tire on the I-80 bridge over the Missouri River in Omaha. This meant leaving a trunkful of beer on the shoulder of the freeway while they got the spare out and the tire fixed. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CatsbyAZ on April 18, 2020, 05:53:07 PM
My grandparents used to drive to Las Vegas from Minnesota a lot. In the 70s, this meant loading the trunk in Julesburg with Coors.

On one particular trip, they had a flat tire on the I-80 bridge over the Missouri River in Omaha. This meant leaving a trunkful of beer on the shoulder of the freeway while they got the spare out and the tire fixed.

Why Julesburg? Because it's the first Colorado town across the Nebraska state line? The geographical limit of Coors sales? Such an out of the way place. And not unlike the MANY other grain tower towns connected by railroad across the cold plains. Western Nebraska/Kansas and Eastern Colorado is the calm before the storm; the calm that empty flatness of land, the storm the upheaval of the Rockies reaching west. I can't tell you how enlivening of an experience that transformation of land is whenever I roadtrip.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 19, 2020, 09:31:13 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/HVSNCy0.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 19, 2020, 10:03:33 AM
had some good brats yesterday for lunch, grilled by a beautiful Hawkeye fan

(https://i.imgur.com/z8CM856.jpg)then some prime ribeyes for dinner


15 - 1 inch steaks out of a block


(https://i.imgur.com/9SrAdVm.jpg)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 19, 2020, 10:15:58 AM
I prefer Belgian beers, if I'm drinking beer. I "like" some German ones too.
Amen, brutha!  Almost all Belgians are in brown bottles.  Many Germans too.

Heineken is pretty crappy even in the Netherlands.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 19, 2020, 10:22:56 AM
I don't mind a Heinie once in a while, but I'm of the unwashed masses
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on April 19, 2020, 10:56:16 AM
Amen, brutha!  Almost all Belgians are in brown bottles.  Many Germans too.

Heineken is pretty crappy even in the Netherlands. 
I didnt realize Heineken was looked upon as bad beer

There are no bad beers just better ones
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2020, 10:58:20 AM
Old Milwaukee Light.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on April 19, 2020, 11:22:46 AM
Why Julesburg? Because it's the first Colorado town across the Nebraska state line? 
Yup. Last stop in Colorado. It's also immediately adjacent to I-80 where I-76 splits off to go to or from Denver. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on April 19, 2020, 11:24:27 AM
Old Milwaukee Light.


ok there you have me

almost no bad beers
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on April 19, 2020, 11:29:00 AM
ok there you have me

almost no bad beers
Red Dog
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 19, 2020, 11:52:56 AM
Fosters was horrific,didn't taste bad but the next day was corona like syptoms.They use to run thursday nite specials when we played softball.And Fosters was featured a few times.After the second time veteran quaffers realized the 1st time was no fluke >:(
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 19, 2020, 12:08:39 PM
South Korean beer always seemed to make me feel terrible the next day.  Supposedly, it's got some aldehydes in it that do not go well with the human body.

I don't remember that effect after drinking Foster's back at OU.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2020, 12:10:39 PM
Aldehydes are bad for us.  Ethanol metabolism generates aldehydes which are somewhat attenuated by a surfeit of water.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 19, 2020, 12:10:55 PM
I don't remember that effect after drinking Foster's back at OU.
it was sub-contracted from South Korea
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CatsbyAZ on April 19, 2020, 12:59:41 PM
Anyone ever drink Red Dog? I remember it's introduction in the mid-90s; a lot of commercials ran for Red Dog during NFL and NHL broadcasts, and by the time it faded into the 2000s I wasn't of drinking age. What'd'you think? Just another convenience store beer?




(https://images.freshop.com/00034100673413/732803495db383d131bb05da93b20136_large.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on April 19, 2020, 01:09:50 PM
As a Milwaukee  native, yes RedDog was readily available.  It was not good.  Lower priced than MGD, but in that mix with Beast and Old Mud.

Milwaukee's Best, and Old Milwaukee.

It is still sold in some markets, particularly urban markets.  I know this as I'm still friendly w some MC people.  I saw it in a store in Milwaukee last month.

He says it's still sold in Indy too, though I don't recall seeing it recently.  Its funny they have brands which still pull decent share with absolutely zero marketing spend. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2020, 02:18:35 PM
Never seen that before.  I did address my gin and vodka shortage.  Got a vodka called Lit, and some Tito's, a 1.75 and two 1.75s of Tangueray, which is vodka also.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2020, 02:22:40 PM
Congrats to Jake Fromm State farm on a nice Wonderlich test result.





Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2020, 02:24:54 PM
I think the Iowa State QB scored like 38 or something.  A friend who played in the League tells me Jake won't be more than holder of CBs.  I wonder how much emphasis is placed on that test these days, or any "test".  Dunno.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 19, 2020, 02:34:54 PM
Never seen that before.  I did address my gin and vodka shortage.  Got a vodka called Lit, and some Tito's, a 1.75 and two 1.75s of Tangueray, which is vodka also.


Yup, juniper flavored, the original boutique flavored vodka.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 19, 2020, 02:38:00 PM
Tanqueray started out as a gin, did it not?
Does that explain the juniper-flavored vodka?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2020, 02:45:35 PM
It IS gin, but gin is flavored vodka, developed by someone back when as a kind of tonic with juniper berries and other flavorings.

My favorite mixed drink is G&T except for this weird drink called a caiparoska, which you can't get around here without explaining how to make one.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 19, 2020, 03:06:29 PM
I didnt realize Heineken was looked upon as bad beer

There are no bad beers just better ones
Heineken is good if you can get it canned or kegged... Or well-treated in the bottle. 

Green glass doesn't block much UV, so the green bottles lead to skunked beer.

Oddly Corona (clear glass) doesn't have that problem. Skunking is caused by UV hitting certain hop compounds. I understand that Corona uses a hop extract or something of the sort that doesn't have those compounds in the finished beer, so it doesn't skunk.

So... The flavor of Corona is intentional ;-) 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 19, 2020, 03:08:08 PM
Aldehydes are bad for us.  Ethanol metabolism generates aldehydes which are somewhat attenuated by a surfeit of water.


Yeah, acetaldehyde is something that homebrewers watch out for. Gives a "green apple" flavor.

Generally it's not a big issue unless you try to finish a beer too "young", as the yeast will clean up any green apple given time. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2020, 03:38:34 PM
If skunkiness is due to a trace of some organosulfur compound, modified hops could eliminate that.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 19, 2020, 04:12:33 PM
Heineken is good if you can get it canned or kegged... Or well-treated in the bottle.

Green glass doesn't block much UV, so the green bottles lead to skunked beer.

Oddly Corona (clear glass) doesn't have that problem. Skunking is caused by UV hitting certain hop compounds. I understand that Corona uses a hop extract or something of the sort that doesn't have those compounds in the finished beer, so it doesn't skunk.

So... The flavor of Corona is intentional ;-)
Nah Corona definitely suffers from light strike as well.  In Mexico you can find it in brown bottles in places, tastes completely different. 

Heineken canned or draft, even in the Netherlands, tastes better than it does here in green bottles, but I still don't consider it particularly good.  Their global marketing IS really good, though, that's for sure!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on April 19, 2020, 07:53:23 PM
Heineken is a very strong brand in Asian American markets, particularly SE Asians living in US.   I know a distributor guy who said stores went nuts when they changed their labeling a few years ago.  He said his core consumers (Vietmanese and Thai immigrants were angry about it)  impacted sales. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on April 19, 2020, 08:11:44 PM
Welcome to 2020 where we have devout White Nationalists throwing their support behind major college football coaches, and nobody cares anymore.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CatsbyAZ on April 19, 2020, 10:53:04 PM
Welcome to 2020 where we have devout White Nationalists throwing their support behind major college football coaches, and nobody cares anymore.




huh?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 19, 2020, 11:22:54 PM
Tanqueray started out as a gin, did it not?
Does that explain the juniper-flavored vodka?
We're having a little fun at the expense of the "it's not a martini if it's vodka" crowd, because technically gin is really nothing more than vodka, flavored with a particular subset of botanicals.

And I threw in another little poke at at the boutique vodka set, because again, gin is just a specialized subset of specifically-flavored vodka.

I believe I've also commented around here, of an article I read in a now-forgotten but then-trendy magazine, from maybe 15 years ago, remarking on the then-new craze of creating new boutique, flavored vodkas, and how "if we're not careful, we might just invent gin!"

Just a little fun I think.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 19, 2020, 11:38:40 PM
Welcome to 2020 where we have devout White Nationalists throwing their support behind major college football coaches, and nobody cares anymore.


What am I missing?I'm not even drinking Vodka or Gin or Heineken
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on April 19, 2020, 11:58:39 PM
Gin is my favorite spirit, but there are some dreadful gins out there, and I'm not just talking about bathtub gin and the stuff that will make you go blind from the bottom shelf in plastic bottles.  

Tanq, and Bombay ill pass.  

Rehorst is my favorite, Boodles, Deaths Door, Botanist, Beefeater, Old Raj, and under right mix Hendricks and Knickerbocker all pretty dang good.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 20, 2020, 12:11:35 AM
We all have our personal tastes, but if you're passing on Bombay Sapphire in favor of Beefeater, well, I don't think we're going to agree on what, and what is not, a "dreadful gin."

I'll be clear, I'm not talking about base-label Bombay here,  Sapphire is something different.

Folks like to expound on Hendricks and how it mixes well with cucumber, but I loathe the flavor of cucumber and, after all, gin is based on juniper and not cucumber, so there you have it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on April 20, 2020, 01:32:41 AM
Gin is polarizing no doubt.  I don't get fuss over tanq or bombay, that's all.

Beefeater is perfectly cromulent. In other words, it's fine.   You go to a wedding, its probably there along side the Tanq or Bombay Sapphire. 

Hendricks does get typecast w cucumber but it has more range with that.  I'm with you, I don't want it with cucumber necessarily.  I like it as a gin gimlet.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2020, 07:28:32 AM
My favorite is Tangueray Ten, but for drinking straight, not mixing.  I find the base Tang to be good value for my tastes.  I've tried all I could find.  The cheaper gins have an oily off flavor I dislike, I suppose inefficient distillation (same with vodka and bourbon).  I tried Tito's on advice here, I had viewed it as a cheap brand, and find it very acceptable at the price.  The wife wants Grey Goose which I think is over priced, but she rarely drinks any, so I keep a bottle around.  The problem is I ran out of my vodka and started nipping her until it was gone.

I have a hard time matching Woodford Reserve, but the EQ Single Barrel is pretty solid for the money IMHO.  I enjoy a strong vanilla note.

I mostly drink wine of course.  I've mentioned the Costco Kirkland brand box wine Napa cab as a ridiculously good value.  I'm getting a bit bored with it though.  It is very quaffable but certainly gets boring, so I've been opening other stuff of late.

Drink what you like, try what someone suggests, and make your own mind up.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 20, 2020, 07:31:46 AM
I like Uncle Val's. Botanical is my preferred, but they are all good.

(https://www.abcfws.com/ccstore/v1/images/?source=/file/v5887494425725159878/products/807105.jpg&height=940&width=940)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 20, 2020, 08:11:52 AM
Rehorst is my favorite, Boodles, Deaths Door, Botanist, Beefeater, Old Raj, and under right mix Hendricks and Knickerbocker all pretty dang good. 
Death's Door - a delightful name for some Spirits
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 20, 2020, 08:19:30 AM
after all, gin is based on juniper and not cucumber, so there you have it.
I remember a Natural Remedy for arthritic knees that supposedly worked.Think we discussed it on the old board.Soaking golden raisins in Gin.Not sure what the raisins do but absorb,and juniper was used by the Navajo,Cheyenne or sumsuch for medicinal purposes.Many of the older folks claimed it helped
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 20, 2020, 08:29:18 AM
Gin is polarizing no doubt.  I don't get fuss over tanq or bombay, that's all.

Beefeater is perfectly cromulent. In other words, it's fine.  You go to a wedding, its probably there along side the Tanq or Bombay Sapphire.

Hendricks does get typecast w cucumber but it has more range with that.  I'm with you, I don't want it with cucumber necessarily.  I like it as a gin gimlet.
Cromulent?Gimlet?  :wtf: you and 94 are making wine snobs look reasonable 😎
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on April 20, 2020, 09:34:40 AM
Hey now, cromulent is a made up word introduced to the world in a mid 90s Simpsons episode to mean acceptable or adequate.




Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 20, 2020, 09:43:07 AM
Cromulent is a perfectly cromulent word.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 20, 2020, 09:51:47 AM
I hate the word ginormous. 

I had to correct my 7 year old who didn't even realize that it's not really a word--it came from a movie. I told her to start using "enormous". 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on April 20, 2020, 10:19:37 AM
I hate the word ginormous.

I had to correct my 7 year old who didn't even realize that it's not really a word--it came from a movie. I told her to start using "enormous".
looks like an actual word to me

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ginormous (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ginormous)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 20, 2020, 10:21:40 AM
Eh, the dictionary will add just about anything these days.  It even includes "irregardless" now.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2020, 10:24:54 AM
Dictionaries include a ginormous number of new words each year irregardless of whether they are inflammable or not.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 20, 2020, 10:25:36 AM
looks like an actual word to me

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ginormous (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ginormous)
It has become accepted. Doesn't mean that it should be in common usage.

Especially from a seven year old...

And yes, I know I sound like an unreasonable curmudgeon. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 20, 2020, 10:26:33 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/VL75Til.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on April 20, 2020, 10:27:41 AM
Dictionaries include a ginormous number of new words each year irregardless of whether they are inflammable or not.
ginormous has been around for 78 years so just bhow long does a word have to be used before you give your blessing to it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 20, 2020, 10:29:45 AM
ginormous has been around for 78 years so just bhow long does a word have to be used before you give your blessing to it
Sure, in Brit slang...

Next thing you'll be telling me that "lorry" means "truck" or something. 

Bollocks I say!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on April 20, 2020, 10:33:34 AM
Sure, in Brit slang...

Next thing you'll be telling me that "lorry" means "truck" or something.

Bollocks I say!
God save the king
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 20, 2020, 10:39:29 AM
uhhhhhhhh
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 20, 2020, 10:53:04 AM
I am getting sick and tired of the English, always behaving as though they invented the language. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on April 20, 2020, 11:01:43 AM
I am getting sick and tired of the English, always behaving as though they invented the language.
We have adopted a lot of words taken from other languages not just the British
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2020, 11:02:04 AM
I'm amazed how much of our language is from French (or vice versa, as I tell the wife).  Of course, the "French" were the last to invade England successfully.  So there is that.

Words like weekend and parking are exactly the same in French.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 20, 2020, 11:15:47 AM
I'm amazed how much of our language is from French (or vice versa, as I tell the wife).  Of course, the "French" were the last to invade England successfully.  So there is that.

Words like weekend and parking are exactly the same in French.

Bon weekend!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 20, 2020, 11:22:17 AM
Eh, the dictionary will add just about anything these days.  It even includes "irregardless" now. 
Heh,ya it's regardless,It's like when someone says I "could" care less - when they really mean"couldn't" .Every year I think it's the Washington Post produces faux new vocabulary that has been contributed.One was Ignoranus - evidently an ignorant A-hole.I know some ignoranuses and have been referred to as such but could care less
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 20, 2020, 11:27:43 AM

God save the king
The Founding fathers and the Minute Men would like a word with you
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 20, 2020, 11:29:45 AM
Bazillion.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 20, 2020, 11:35:29 AM
That's brazillion - go back to skool
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on April 20, 2020, 11:42:38 AM
The Founding fathers and the Minute Men would like a word with you
what? dont you like Trump?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 20, 2020, 11:49:41 AM
Did he tweet that?Does the King have Covid?He better not be bowing to those bastages
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 20, 2020, 12:32:24 PM
I think I'll drink gin tonight

plenty of Bud heavy over the weekend
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 20, 2020, 12:47:39 PM
I did margaritas yesterday.  Neighbors sat on their side of the yard, we sat on ours, and we drank the afternoon away.  I was supposed to get some work done finishing out wiring my new shed/shop, but I guess that'll happen on some other day.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2020, 01:15:24 PM
Will that be a new he shed?  

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 20, 2020, 01:40:02 PM
Will that be a new he shed? 


I mean, my wife is welcome to go in there, but then I'll put her to work planing or sanding some teak I'm using to build deck chairs, so...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2020, 03:50:52 PM
In other news, the new season of Bosch is on Amazon'.  One of my favorites, I loved the books.  Welliver does a very good Bosch.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on April 20, 2020, 06:32:04 PM
In other news, the new season of Bosch is on Amazon'.  One of my favorites, I loved the books.  Welliver does a very good Bosch.


I just watched the first episode 

Ive been a fan of the series from the beginning
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 20, 2020, 10:47:17 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/UAEPnwL.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2020, 03:30:53 PM
I finished Bosch last night, bummer.  I thought it was not as good as the previous seasons, but still better than most of the stuff out there.

The Last Kingdom is due out in days.  I think they did quite a good job with the books written by Cornwell, the changes were OK.  He is probably my favorite author of historical fiction.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 21, 2020, 03:33:52 PM
I'm about to do the free trial of CBS's streaming service so i can binge-watch Picard, and then cancel it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2020, 08:28:25 AM
I spied a 4 pack of canned margaritas at the wine store and decided the wife might like them.  Ugh.  We still had one can left after 6 months or so and I told the wife I'd take one for the team, I poured most of it out.  Probably the worst I've ever had, and I tried to doctor it with fresh lime juice, no luck.

I tried the Fevertree tonic water and to me it tastes like the regular stuff.  The wife claims Schweppes is the best but it tastes like CD to me, no difference in a G&T.

The neighbor brought over a bottle of South African syrah last night, the wife was not a fan, chocked some down to be neighborly.  I fixed chuck roast in the hot pot.  I thought it was good, but the wife said she didn't like how stringy it is.  Huh.

I had some Evan Williams Single Barrel again, and I think it's a pretty good value relative to WR (which is better IMHO).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2020, 09:16:18 AM
Another beautiful day in the neighborhood here.  The wife and I did 3.1 miles walking yesterday according to her phone.  It was really more strolling of course.

We chatted about how important it is now especially to have the park next door.  I wish they would reopen the botanical garden.  

https://atlantabg.org/ (https://atlantabg.org/)

They claim to be closed until May 31.  I think they could reopen and limit the numbers of people allowed in, it's a large garden.  When we visit there usually are not areas with packed people outside the main building, which they could close.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 22, 2020, 09:27:27 AM
They claim to be closed until May 31.  I think they could reopen and limit the numbers of people allowed in, it's a large garden.  When we visit there usually are not areas with packed people outside the main building, which they could close. 
I think one of the problems with all the shutdowns is that people think "hey, nobody is ever at the botanical garden, that'd be a nice little outing"...

Problem is that because it would then be one of the few things open, everyone else thinks that and then it's packed.

I think we've had some issues with hiking trails here in SoCal like that. It SHOULD be one of the easiest places to social distance, but if suddenly the hiking trails are being overrun because of 10-20x normal traffic (and some of them are singletrack so passing someone is hard to avoid 6' spacing), it kinda defeats the purpose. So some of the narrow trails were closed because of the sudden traffic surge.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 22, 2020, 09:37:30 AM
Yeah, all the public gardens around here had to close shortly after the shutdown was ordered. People flocked to them. Same thing with the Lakefront/beaches. They were initially open. Not any more.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 22, 2020, 09:53:38 AM
I had some Evan Williams Single Barrel again, and I think it's a pretty good value relative to WR (which is better IMHO).
You Like?I've read from NYT and Whiskey Jug they really like them 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2020, 10:17:30 AM
The botanical garden can easily open with limits on numbers of people allowed inside.  They are colocated with the park, which is larger but also completely open.

The botanical garden has a single gate for entry and ticket sales and it's fenced in everywhere.  It's in yellow below.  We can walk all over the park and maintain distancing easily.

(https://i.imgur.com/1uGP5s7.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 22, 2020, 11:15:15 AM
I spied a 4 pack of canned margaritas at the wine store and decided the wife might like them.  Ugh.  We still had one can left after 6 months or so and I told the wife I'd take one for the team, I poured most of it out.  Probably the worst I've ever had, and I tried to doctor it with fresh lime juice, no luck.

I tried the Fevertree tonic water and to me it tastes like the regular stuff.  The wife claims Schweppes is the best but it tastes like CD to me, no difference in a G&T.

The neighbor brought over a bottle of South African syrah last night, the wife was not a fan, chocked some down to be neighborly.  I fixed chuck roast in the hot pot.  I thought it was good, but the wife said she didn't like how stringy it is.  Huh.

I had some Evan Williams Single Barrel again, and I think it's a pretty good value relative to WR (which is better IMHO).
I've never had any margarita dry or liquid mix that produced drinks as good as the simple old staple:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 22, 2020, 11:28:30 AM
This is my go-to, but I also use his Mezcal recipe from time to time.

A Classic Margarita
FROM RICKBAYLESS.COM


Servings: 1

Ingredients

  • Coarse (kosher) salt
  • 1 lime wedge
  • 1 1/2ounces 100% blue agave resposado or not-too-heavy-tasting añejo tequila (we love Herradura añejo)
  • 1ounce brandy-based orange liqueur (such as Torres Orange)
  • 1ounce fresh-squeezed lime juice
  • A little agave syrup (light organic syrup gives the best flavor) or simple syrup, if you want a little more sweetness
  • 6 to 10 medium ice cubes (about ¾ cup)
Instructions

Spread the salt on a small plate, moisten the rim of a 6-ounce martini glass with the lime wedge, and upend the glass onto the salt to crust the rim.
In a cocktail shaker, combine the tequila, orange liqueur, lime juice and ice.  Cover and shake vigorously until frothy and cold; tiny ice crystals will appear in the drink after about 15 seconds of shaking. Strain into the salt-crusted glass and serve immediately.
 
©Rick Bayless. All rights reserved.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2020, 11:33:36 AM
I like the taste of lime juice a lot.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 22, 2020, 11:43:53 AM
Then make that drink I show. It's perfect.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 22, 2020, 12:19:00 PM
I love brandy but I don't like the flavor of brandy-based orange liqueurs in a margarita, they influence the flavor too much when I want to taste the tequila and lime juice.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2020, 12:40:27 PM
fresh lime and top shelf tequila on the rocks

perfect
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 22, 2020, 01:06:07 PM
I love brandy but I don't like the flavor of brandy-based orange liqueurs in a margarita, they influence the flavor too much when I want to taste the tequila and lime juice.


It's all about balance with this one (and all of Bayless' stuff). Give it a try. I keep Torres 10 on hand for the Mezcal version too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 22, 2020, 01:09:51 PM
It's all about balance with this one (and all of Bayless' stuff). Give it a try. I keep Torres 10 on hand for the Mezcal version too.
Oh I've tried them all.  It's a common recipe down here.  Perhaps you don't realize this, but we do a lot of margaritas and other tequila-based drinks, being right next to Mexico and all.  :) 

I simply don't like the flavor of brandy-based orange liqueurs in a margarita, it's too much and it is NOT balanced in my opinion.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2020, 01:32:18 PM
perhaps just a few drops, that you can't taste a tall
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2020, 01:35:28 PM
I just go with G&T or V&T, a lot easier to make for me.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 22, 2020, 01:40:51 PM
I do those, too.  I don't discriminate against the various liquors and cocktails.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 22, 2020, 01:44:08 PM
Perhaps you don't realize this, but we do a lot of margaritas and other tequila-based drinks, being right next to Mexico and all.  :)
Meh I'd go with one of the Local Pils or Helles Lager in the warm weather.Just avoid those clear bottles with Palm Trees on them that suggest you cram a lime inside
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on April 22, 2020, 02:30:48 PM
I've been trying to deal with a foot issue for a while now, and today, as I've been trying some stretches I read about, it has decided to flare up. Might have to go to a damn doctor about it (when the shutdown ends), who will tell me I need to not run for months. Bleh. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 22, 2020, 02:30:54 PM
Meh I'd go with one of the Local Pils or Helles Lager in the warm weather.Just avoid those clear bottles with Palm Trees on them that suggest you cram a lime inside
That too.  There's room for ALL the things, all the booze. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on April 22, 2020, 02:31:27 PM
On the beer front, bought a nice coffee lager from a local place. I don't drink much at the house and miss trips to that brewery's patio. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 22, 2020, 02:32:47 PM
I've been trying to deal with a foot issue for a while now, and today, as I've been trying some stretches I read about, it has decided to flare up. Might have to go to a damn doctor about it (when the shutdown ends), who will tell me I need to not run for months. Bleh.
If you want to avoid foot, ankle, knee, and other general leg ailments, then you shouldn't run at all.

I say that as a runner, and I'm not going to stop, but my PT wife is pretty much constantly treating me.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 22, 2020, 03:31:42 PM
Oh I've tried them all.  It's a common recipe down here.  Perhaps you don't realize this, but we do a lot of margaritas and other tequila-based drinks, being right next to Mexico and all.  :)

I simply don't like the flavor of brandy-based orange liqueurs in a margarita, it's too much and it is NOT balanced in my opinion.
We are not next to Mexico, but we have a lot of Mexicans per capita, and we have Rick Bayless. I wish I could take him with me to Florida so he could open some places. Lots of oranges there.

I like Grand Marnier too.


For the Mezcal variety, there is no orange flavor. It's made with Wahaka and Torres 10, and the limeaide. I like the smokiness of the Mezcal.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on April 22, 2020, 03:50:13 PM
If you want to avoid foot, ankle, knee, and other general leg ailments, then you shouldn't run at all.

I say that as a runner, and I'm not going to stop, but my PT wife is pretty much constantly treating me.


I mean, it's just very nagging plantar fasciitis, I think. 

I've been trying the toe stretches, which I think helps, but sometimes ends with slight shooting pain that makes me more worried than the dull pain. Honestly, I'm not at all keen on stopping, so that's what it is.

(Since she's a PT, is there any long-term damage from plantar fasciitis? Like am I getting closer to a massive rupture, or is it just gonna be mildly annoying until I take a mess of time off?)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 22, 2020, 04:01:04 PM
We are not next to Mexico, but we have a lot of Mexicans per capita, and we have Rick Bayless. I wish I could take him with me to Florida so he could open some places. Lots of oranges there.

I like Grand Marnier too.


For the Mezcal variety, there is no orange flavor. It's made with Wahaka and Torres 10, and the limeaide. I like the smokiness of the Mezcal.
Yeah yeah, I know you worship Rick Bayless. :)

Nobody down here really even knows who he is. We don't need to.  We live the culture every day.

Also, I don't have a problem with orange-flavored liqueurs in a margarita, it belongs, it's part of the cocktail.  I just don't like the ones that are based on brandy, in my margarita.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 22, 2020, 04:05:04 PM
I mean, it's just very nagging plantar fasciitis, I think.

I've been trying the toe stretches, which I think helps, but sometimes ends with slight shooting pain that makes me more worried than the dull pain. Honestly, I'm not at all keen on stopping, so that's what it is.

(Since she's a PT, is there any long-term damage from plantar fasciitis? Like am I getting closer to a massive rupture, or is it just gonna be mildly annoying until I take a mess of time off?)
I'll ask her when I get a chance and let you know.  In general, I know one thing you need to worry about is the injuries you could create by compensating for the pain from the plantar fasciitis.  Walking or running funny, to get around the pain, can put pressures and stresses on other joints and tissues.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 22, 2020, 04:12:55 PM
That's exactly what hapepend to me last year.  Had a glute/sciatica scare which turned out to be a hip issue, caused by the plantar faciitus.  It was awful, but fixed with simple stretches and lost some weight.

I gained it back the last 5 weeks, though, so that's fun.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 22, 2020, 05:55:25 PM
Yeah yeah, I know you worship Rick Bayless. :)

Nobody down here really even knows who he is. We don't need to.  We live the culture every day.

Also, I don't have a problem with orange-flavored liqueurs in a margarita, it belongs, it's part of the cocktail.  I just don't like the ones that are based on brandy, in my margarita.
Welp.. I really don't know what to say to that, but I'll try. Bayless is not Texas at all. His style is... Fine dining meets Oaxaca, if you will.

If you were to eat at Topolabampo, you'd think you were at a French restaurant, right down to décor and vibe and plating and wine pairing, until you put the food to tongue. It's very different, and spectacularly refined.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 22, 2020, 06:00:04 PM
I didn't think Texans ate Mexican food. I thought you had your own Tex-Mex hybrid that largely dominated there...

Tex-Mex spread throughout much of the US, and I know that Mexican food when I got to California didn't really resemble Tex-Mex at all.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 22, 2020, 06:11:41 PM
Here neither. We have quite a few Mexican places here in town that are pretty darn authentic.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 22, 2020, 06:19:41 PM
Now I want a burrito. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 22, 2020, 06:22:44 PM
Welp.. I really don't know what to say to that, but I'll try. Bayless is not Texas at all. His style is... Fine dining meets Oaxaca, if you will.

If you were to eat at Topolabampo, you'd think you were at a French restaurant, right down to décor and vibe and plating and wine pairing, until you put the food to tongue. It's very different, and spectacularly refined.
You were initially talking about margaritas.  And recommended a Bayless recipe.  Which is fine and all, but since at least two origin stories place margaritas as being invented right here in Texico, and they're very much a part of our culture down here, I can assure you I know what I'm talking about.

As for Oaxaca, yeah, we're familiar with it.  There are plenty of interior Mexican places around here.  'Cause, you know... Texas-Mexico border and all.  It's not something new or unique or crazy to us here, it's integrated into the culture here.  

Texas borders Mexico, I'm just gonna point that out once more, 'cause it seems you really don't seem to get it.  Texas was actually a PART of Mexico until 1836, boggles the mind I know.

But I still love you brother!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 22, 2020, 06:24:33 PM
I didn't think Texans ate Mexican food. I thought you had your own Tex-Mex hybrid that largely dominated there...

Tex-Mex spread throughout much of the US, and I know that Mexican food when I got to California didn't really resemble Tex-Mex at all.
Tex-Mex is huge here.  But every single strip center in town has a tiny Mexican place that starts with "El" or "La" and most are based on interior Mexican food.  They often serve Tex-Mex, too, to broaden their appeal.

Texas shares a really, REALLY long border with Mexico.  We have a lot of Mexican immigrants living here.  Heck, we have a lot of Mexican nationals living here.  I guess that's something I need to point out, but it doesn't seem like I should?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 22, 2020, 06:28:26 PM
Here neither. We have quite a few Mexican places here in town that are pretty darn authentic.
Cindy has Mexican cousins on her fathers side by marriage.Evidently they opened one of the 1st Mexican restaurants In Cleveland back in the early 50's.We've been guests of theirs a few times and the cuisine was nothing like Tex-Mex.Perhaps a bit more spartan with condiments but still zesty and delicious.I seem to remember they used more lime and Quac
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 22, 2020, 06:28:38 PM
Tex-Mex is huge here.  But every single strip center in town has a tiny Mexican place that starts with "El" or "La" and most are based on interior Mexican food.  They often serve Tex-Mex, too, to broaden their appeal.

Texas shares a really, REALLY long border with Mexico.  We have a lot of Mexican nationals living here.  I guess that's something I need to point out, but it doesn't seem like I should?
Just stirring the molcajete, mi amigo. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 22, 2020, 06:33:32 PM
Cindy has Mexican cousins on her fathers side by marriage.Evidently they opened one of the 1st Mexican restaurants In Cleveland back in the early 50's.We've been guests of theirs a few times and the cuisine was nothing like Tex-Mex.Perhaps a bit more spartan with condiments but still zesty and delicious.I seem to remember they used more lime and Quac
Yup, we've got that here too.  It's a pretty big state.  With a pretty big border between it, and Mexico.

Interior Mexican food isn't Tex-Mex.  It shares some of the same ingredients, some of the same methods.  

But really, there's no such thing as "interior Mexican food" either, because the dishes in Oaxaca aren't the same as the dishes in the Yucatan, which aren't the same as the dishes in Mexico City.  Not surprisingly, and similar to the US and every other country on the planet, the cuisine from the coastal regions features a lot more seafood, and the food in the interiors tends toward the land animals as the major source of protein.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 22, 2020, 06:45:15 PM
As I recall they didn't use sour cream much if at all
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on April 22, 2020, 07:14:06 PM
Hmmm, the town I'm in has like one good, modestly more authentic Mexican place, and it's a haul. I was thinking a sandwich for tomorrow's takeout, and I preordered something a little harder to get for Saturday. 

Maybe I'll make that a Monday trip.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2020, 07:17:52 PM
The other countries I have visited in Europe don't have the profusion of food types we enjoy here.  They have Asian places, a few, and some north African places, a few, but most restaurants in France are French (which is not a bad thing).  It is like if 95% of our restaurants were Cracker Barrel or something, IMHO.

It's the same with wine, here we get wine from all over.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 22, 2020, 09:49:30 PM
Agree in general, although France has some absolutely fantastic Vietnamese.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 23, 2020, 09:43:28 AM
yup, Mexicans moved to Texas, they walked or drove across the LONG border

Mexicans also moved to Cleveland and Chicago and Atlanta and NW Iowa

but, we know everything is bigger in Texas - especially Mexican food
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 23, 2020, 10:14:46 AM
yup, Mexicans moved to Texas, they walked or drove across the LONG border

Mexicans also moved to Cleveland and Chicago and Atlanta and NW Iowa

but, we know everything is bigger in Texas - especially Mexican food
Well, yes.  I mean, just by volume, just by population percentage, this is obviously true.  I'm not sure why anyone would argue against it, really? Why would anyone get defensive? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2020, 10:56:35 AM
Well, yes.  I mean, just by volume, just by population percentage, this is obviously true.  I'm not sure why anyone would argue against it, really? Why would anyone get defensive?

Who are you asking?  :88:



Anyway, I was at a bar in Cabo a few months ago and they claimed to have invented the margarita. There is a place in San Diego (been a while) that I was at that claimed the same.


Oaxaca is very versatile. Along the Southern coast they eat a lot of seafood. Inland, on the other side of the mountains, more animals are consumed, but seafood is still pretty popular. They love their moles and they love their Mezcal.

This is where Bayless lived for 7 years, but he is well-traveled throughout the country. Oaxaca is the base though.

I love Tex-Mex too. Probably should be considered on its own, because a lot of "Mexican" places here serve nothing but Tex-Mex. Probably owned by gringos. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 23, 2020, 11:14:39 AM
Well I'll be making BBQ enchiladas and drinking margaritas tonight.  So there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 23, 2020, 11:27:39 AM
Per the Font of All Wisdom and Knowledge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margarita):

"A margarita is a cocktail consisting of tequila, orange liqueur, and lime juice often served with salt on the rim of the glass."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2020, 11:40:22 AM
When eating "ethnic food", I do wonder how it compares to the "real thing".  Now, obviously there is no "real thing" in reality, cuisine in a country will vary widely in most cases (maybe some small country has homogeneous cuisine).  

The two good things is that we here in the US have access to myriad types of ethnic cuisine, and I like nearly all of it.  (German is my least favorite.)

Vietnamese food is good to me, and we have a lot of that around here.  I love Korean bi bim bop dol sot.  Japanese, yum (not Benihana).  Greek, Italian, Spanish ...  bring it on.  When I was a kid, we had none of this available, maybe some pizza here and there and maybe an expensive French place.

Mexican is great, of whatever ilk, even if Americanized.  I make it at home some with those kits.  The wife likes it.  

One higher end place here makes Russian-French fusion dishes that we like but rarely go there because it's expensive.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g60898-d435282-Reviews-Nikolai_s_Roof-Atlanta_Georgia.html (https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g60898-d435282-Reviews-Nikolai_s_Roof-Atlanta_Georgia.html)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2020, 11:42:05 AM
Well I'll be making BBQ enchiladas and drinking margaritas tonight.  So there.
I'm sure it will be fantastic.

I'm doing chopped steak, grilled mushroom and onion gravy, mashed potatoes, corn on the cob and green beans. No booze.

Sounds like cracker barrel or something.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 23, 2020, 11:45:43 AM
but, we know everything is bigger in Texas
or as Alaskans say"TEXAS - it's cute"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 23, 2020, 11:53:38 AM
The two good things is that we here in the US have access to myriad types of ethnic cuisine, and I like nearly all of it.  (German is my least favorite.)
I dunno Brats,Burgers and Beer kinda go with cook outs,tailgates and football/baseball
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 23, 2020, 12:17:55 PM
Per the Font of All Wisdom and Knowledge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margarita):

"A margarita is a cocktail consisting of tequila, orange liqueur, and lime juice often served with salt on the rim of the glass."
Indeed it is.


The original margarita recipe called for Cointreua, which is a triple sec orange liqueur that is not brandy-based.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 23, 2020, 12:19:37 PM
or as Alaskans say"TEXAS - it's cute"
Yup, they do indeed say that.  Both of them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 23, 2020, 12:20:09 PM
I dunno Brats,Burgers and Beer kinda go with cook outs,tailgates and football/baseball
Amen brutha!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 23, 2020, 12:20:59 PM
Indeed it is.


The original margarita recipe called for Cointreua, which is a triple sec orange liqueur that is not brandy-based.
So it's just the brandy-based part you don't like?  I thought I saw you saying you didn't like the orange flavor.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 23, 2020, 12:28:09 PM
So it's just the brandy-based part you don't like?  I thought I saw you saying you didn't like the orange flavor.
Negatory sir, not what I said at all.  I always include orange liqueur in my margaritas.  I do not typically include brandy-based orange liqueurs, because the brandy notes are strong and interfere with the flavor of the tequila, which I believe should be the star.  That's certainly my own opinion, I don't presume to speak for others' taste preferences.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 23, 2020, 12:30:46 PM
We do have Grand Marnier in the house and sometimes, if the wife asks me to, I'll use it instead of Cointreau.  But it's not my preference.

There are some other, newer, really nice, clean orange liqueurs out there on the market too, that we'll use when my wife buys them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 23, 2020, 12:36:02 PM
Yup, they do indeed say that.  Both of them.
Don't move there,thank You for your support.Saw that on a Poster watching Deadliest Catch at a Tavern in Dutch Harbor
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 23, 2020, 12:56:49 PM
I'm sure it will be fantastic.

I'm doing chopped steak, grilled mushroom and onion gravy, mashed potatoes, corn on the cob and green beans. No booze.

Sounds like cracker barrel or something.
why in the wide world of sports would you chop up a perfectly good steak?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 23, 2020, 12:58:44 PM
I dunno Brats,Burgers and Beer kinda go with cook outs,tailgates and football/baseball
don't forget the Kraut and cheese curds
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 23, 2020, 01:09:14 PM
I don't believe I've ever had a cheese curd.  Squeaky or otherwise.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2020, 01:13:23 PM
They are really, really good. In Wisconsin it is customary to bread and fry them. Of course, they are served with ranch dipping sauce and (ummm...) a side of carrots and celery. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2020, 01:14:49 PM
why in the wide world of sports would you chop up a perfectly good steak?
I didn't. When you buy bulk meat from a source (like Mike W), you always get ground with it. I just make them up into a steak shape and grill 'em.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2020, 05:08:43 PM
I had occasion in a discussion about BBs to look up the fuel capacity of the Iowa class BBs, 7,500 TONS.

That is the weight of a light cruiser in WW II.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on April 23, 2020, 05:15:29 PM
I didn't. When you buy bulk meat from a source (like Mike W), you always get ground with it. I just make them up into a steak shape and grill 'em.
A local BBQ place sells sliced and chopped brisket. I appreciate the man running it, but why chop up that picturesque 14-hour brisket?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2020, 05:27:04 PM
It's great on a sandwich when chopped. It also allows the use of "waist" pieces. UTee could explain it better than me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 23, 2020, 05:30:47 PM
some folks really enjoy it chopped

some folks just chop it b cause they don't know how to slice it properly
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 23, 2020, 05:36:55 PM
I had occasion in a discussion about BBs to look up the fuel capacity of the Iowa class BBs, 7,500 TONS.

That is the weight of a light cruiser in WW II.
Was it the idea of a fried cheese curd that made you think of this?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2020, 05:42:45 PM
Someone posted a photo of a destroyer in WW 2 being refueled by a BB and asked how common that was.  I looked up the bunkerage of a typical NN and learned they carried more fuel  than a DD weighed/displaced.

So, they could fill up a DD and probably not notice the loss.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 23, 2020, 05:49:12 PM
It's great on a sandwich when chopped. It also allows the use of "waist" pieces. UTee could explain it better than me.
some folks really enjoy it chopped

some folks just chop it b cause they don't know how to slice it properly
Chopping it is a great way to deal with brisket if you screwed up and overcooked it... 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2020, 05:50:31 PM
Chopping it is a great way to deal with brisket if you screwed up and overcooked it...
That can happen pretty easily on the thinner parts, no? Isn't that where the "burnt end" thing came about in KC?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 23, 2020, 05:55:03 PM
Yup, not all slices work out perfectly.  Waste bits that get a little overcooked, bits that are too crumbly to slice well, overly fatty bits-- those all get chopped and tossed into a pot to simmer and reduce a little bit, render a little more of the overly fatty part, and put on a sandwich as "chop" or "chopped beef."  Down here in Texico, depending on the joint, that might get sauced, or it might not, and traditionally it was thrown onto a hamburger bun, to make a "chop beef on bun."

These days here in CenTex, more people really like those fatty slices and they actually command a premium over lean, so less of it goes into chop than before.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 23, 2020, 05:55:29 PM
Quote
CD:

Someone posted a photo of a destroyer in WW 2 being refueled by a BB and asked how common that was.  I looked up the bunkerage of a typical NN and learned they carried more fuel  than a DD weighed/displaced.


So, they could fill up a DD and probably not notice the loss.

I don't know how common it was for the destroyers to be refueled by ships other than oilers, but I know that the DDs had to refuel more frequently than the BBs and CVs did.
Part of that is probably because the destroyers traversed more distance in adjusting their speed and course to stay in the proper position relative the capital ship(s), but also I think that the big ships just had a longer unrefueled range even when steaming administratively.

I've seen pics of carriers replenishing their escorts.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 23, 2020, 06:03:06 PM
That can happen pretty easily on the thinner parts, no? Isn't that where the "burnt end" thing came about in KC?
I'm not sure of the history...

But burnt ends are typically the brisket point, whereas slices are typically the brisket flat. Although I believe in Texas they talk about "fatty brisket" which includes a lot of the point muscle--or might even be entirely sliced point.

The thinner parts of the flat aren't typically used for burnt ends as far as I'm aware. It's too lean. You need a LOT of fat content for burnt ends, because you're taking the parts that are already cooked and continuing to cook them in sauce. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2020, 06:17:50 PM
Gotcha. I've never had burnt ends so I really only know what I've seen on TV.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 23, 2020, 06:22:21 PM
Gotcha. I've never had burnt ends so I really only know what I've seen on TV.
I recommend them. They're delicious.

And for Super Bowl this year I made burnt ends two ways out of pork belly, which is also delicious and doesn't require a brisket--which can be a big investment in time and cost to smoke, especially if you don't have a dozen people coming over to eat it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2020, 06:23:07 PM
Did you post that one? If so, I missed it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2020, 06:38:19 PM
 On 5 January, Wisconsin refueled the destroyers Owen (DD-536) and Miller (DD-535) and took on fuel from Neches (AO-47). Two days later, on 7 January, the battleship fueled the destroyers Waldron and Ault (DD-698) and on 8 January again fueled Owen and Ault and re-fueled from Neches. On 9 January Wisconsin detected an underwater contact. Sperry and Haynsworth were dispatched but without results.

After refueling destroyers on 21 and 22 January, Wisconsin took on fuel from Atascosa (AO-66) on 23 January

On 18 February the battleship and her escorts were en route to Iwo Jima to provide direct support for the landings slated to take place on that island (Operation Detachment). Wisconsin refueled Colahan (DD-658), StockhamHalsey PowellYarnall (DD-541), Wedderburn (DD-684), and Marshall while underway. 

https://www.history.navy.mil/research/histories/ship-histories/danfs/w/wisconsin-ii.html (https://www.history.navy.mil/research/histories/ship-histories/danfs/w/wisconsin-ii.html)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 23, 2020, 06:40:20 PM
Did you post that one? If so, I missed it.
I don't know if I did...

Here's one recipe that I did: https://blog.thermoworks.com/pork/asian-pork-burnt-ends/ (https://blog.thermoworks.com/pork/asian-pork-burnt-ends/)

The other one basically followed a "standard" burnt ends recipe... Cube the pork belly, rub with BBQ rub, smoke them until fully cooked through / tender, then toss them in BBQ sauce and continue to cook them. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2020, 06:49:55 PM
We should try and get together when this S is over.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 23, 2020, 06:56:11 PM
We should try and get together when this S is over.

Amen brutha.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2020, 06:58:53 PM
https://www.history.navy.mil/research/histories/ship-histories/danfs/w/wisconsin-ii.html (https://www.history.navy.mil/research/histories/ship-histories/danfs/w/wisconsin-ii.html)

I volunteer this place, but I know other places would be great as well.  We have a nice deck one floor above us.  And a couple of Texas guys do some pretty good Q not too far.  We have but one guest suite in the building though at $110 a night.  Nearby lodging is $150 and up, though I have some accommodations in my office.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 23, 2020, 07:02:11 PM
We should try and get together when this S is over.
agreed, some of these folks can cook!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2020, 07:08:47 PM
The Southern expression for "Corona virus lockdown" is "with all this S going on" ....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 24, 2020, 09:08:17 AM
That's almost the Northern expression too. We add a "bull" in front.

We're not all that much different.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 24, 2020, 09:36:31 AM
Hey CD, it's okay, you're old enough to say "shit."

And I'm reasonably sure the mods around here won't boot you for it.

Except that badgerfan dude, he's a mean cat.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 24, 2020, 09:38:20 AM
Mean BADGER.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a2/d8/d1/a2d8d128a0f40d2f9f8a72c5d50ff9a5.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 24, 2020, 09:42:16 AM
https://www.history.navy.mil/research/histories/ship-histories/danfs/w/wisconsin-ii.html (https://www.history.navy.mil/research/histories/ship-histories/danfs/w/wisconsin-ii.html)

I volunteer this place, 
The food bank I volunteer at filled 131 tickets last night,normally we do between 60-70.One head of household receives 3 bags 1bag each of dry/canned goods,produce,meat & dairy.There are about 12 volunteers total but never at the same time,as time permits in personal schedules so it is taxing at times.I use to average about 2-3 hrs a week now it's up to 10.We have food pick ups every 2 weeks and it's a private charity.Also when we go to pick up the pallets of food at the depots the National Guard is now loading everything to make sure all protocol is strictly followed regarding COVID concerns
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 24, 2020, 10:50:38 AM
The food bank I volunteer at filled 131 tickets last night,normally we do between 60-70.One head of household receives 3 bags 1bag each of dry/canned goods,produce,meat & dairy.There are about 12 volunteers total but never at the same time,as time permits in personal schedules so it is taxing at times.I use to average about 2-3 hrs a week now it's up to 10.We have food pick ups every 2 weeks and it's a private charity.Also when we go to pick up the pallets of food at the depots the National Guard is now loading everything to make sure all protocol is strictly followed regarding COVID concerns
Good on you for all of those volunteer hours!  Food banks around here are just completely decimated.  I volunteered some a couple weeks ago, but now there's almost no food coming in to package and process. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 24, 2020, 11:14:56 AM
On 5 January, Wisconsin refueled the destroyers Owen (DD-536) and Miller (DD-535) and took on fuel from Neches (AO-47). Two days later, on 7 January, the battleship fueled the destroyers Waldron and Ault (DD-698) and on 8 January again fueled Owen and Ault and re-fueled from Neches. On 9 January Wisconsin detected an underwater contact. Sperry and Haynsworth were dispatched but without results.

After refueling destroyers on 21 and 22 January, Wisconsin took on fuel from Atascosa (AO-66) on 23 January

On 18 February the battleship and her escorts were en route to Iwo Jima to provide direct support for the landings slated to take place on that island (Operation Detachment). Wisconsin refueled Colahan (DD-658), Stockham, Halsey Powell, Yarnall (DD-541), Wedderburn (DD-684), and Marshall while underway.

https://www.history.navy.mil/research/histories/ship-histories/danfs/w/wisconsin-ii.html (https://www.history.navy.mil/research/histories/ship-histories/danfs/w/wisconsin-ii.html)
It makes sense for the oiler to come up to the battle area and make one big delivery (to the BB or CV) and then go back for its own replenishment rather than to steam through the fleet making small deliveries to a bunch of spread-out escorts.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2020, 11:18:34 AM
I could not find bunkerage for a DD, but it obviously would be much smaller than that for a BB.

I imagine the Navy worked out how best to do UNREP, duh.  It is interesting.  Iowa class cruising range:

9,600 miles (15,000 km) @ 25 knots (46 km/h); 16,600 miles (27,000 km) @ 15 knots (28 km/h)

25 knots is not flank of course, which is 33 knots.  That is about 700 miles (statute) in 24 hours at 25 knots, so they can maintain 25 knots for two weeks.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 24, 2020, 11:59:10 AM
Walked away for 2 minutes to start the dishwasher, and when I come back the puppy has the "Page Up" key from my laptop in his mouth chewing on it. Luckily I got it out before he tried to swallow it. But it's mangled enough that it's unusable.

I hope it's true that a dog's mouth is as clean as people say, because I swear I'm fishing something out of there thrice daily... 

Luckily I found a place to order a new key and it's only ~$8, so it'll just be a temporary annoyance. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 24, 2020, 12:46:25 PM
I could not find bunkerage for a DD, but it obviously would be much smaller than that for a BB.

I imagine the Navy worked out how best to do UNREP, duh.  It is interesting.  Iowa class cruising range:

9,600 miles (15,000 km) @ 25 knots (46 km/h); 16,600 miles (27,000 km) @ 15 knots (28 km/h)

25 knots is not flank of course, which is 33 knots.  That is about 700 miles (statute) in 24 hours at 25 knots, so they can maintain 25 knots for two weeks.
Here's some data for the Fletcher-class destroyers of WWII.

Type:Destroyer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroyer)
Displacement:
  • 2,050 tons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ton) (standard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Displacement_(ship)#Standard_displacement))
  • 2,500 tons (full load)
Length:376.5 ft (114.8 m)
Beam:39.5 ft (12.0 m)
Draft:17.5 ft (5.3 m)
Propulsion:60,000 shp (45 MW); 4 oil-fired boilers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiler); 2 geared (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear) steam turbines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_turbine); 2 screws
Speed:36.5 knots (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knot_(unit)) (67.6 km/h; 42.0 mph)
Range:
  • 5,500 miles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nautical_mile) at 15 knots (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knot_(unit))
  • (8,850 km at 28 km/h) [2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher-class_destroyer#cite_note-2)
Complement:329 officers and men
Armament:Varied; see Armament section

No info there on how much fuel it carried.
I doubt there's ever been a navy that was so big, fighting over such vast spaces, doing so many things so well, as the U.S. Navy in World War II.

EDIT: Here's info from the National Park Service regarding the USS Kidd (DD-661) of the Fletcher class.

Name:USS Kidd (DD-661)
Location:Adjacent to Mississippi River levee near Old State Capitol, Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Owner:State of Louisina, Louisiana Naval War Memorial Commission
Condition:Excellent, unaltered

Displacement:2,325 tons standard / 2,924 tons full load
Length:376 feet
Width:40 feet
Machinery:2-shaft General Electric Turbines, 4-Babcock & Wilcox Boilers
Fuel Oil Capacity:492 tons
Maximum Speed:35 knots
Armament:Five 5-inch/35 caliber guns, 10 torpedo tubes, depth charges, and various combinations of antiaircraft guns.
Crew:273 wartime

Builder:Federal Shipbuilding and Drydock Company, Kearny, New Jersey
Launched:February 28, 1943
Commissioned:April 23, 1943

So, bunker capacity was 492 tons.

Coincidentally, I landed an OH-58 aboard USS Kidd (DDG-993) off of Grenada.  I took the Exec and Surgeon on a little reconnaissance/sight-seeing trip of the island while my copilot stayed on board and bought up a bunch of stuff in the ship's store.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 24, 2020, 12:47:18 PM
Speaking of brisket, I'll be smoking one tomorrow.  I mean, what else do I have to do all day? :)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2020, 12:55:14 PM
http://destroyerhistory.org/fletcherclass/ (http://destroyerhistory.org/fletcherclass/)

Looks like about 500 tons of fuel oil, a significant portion of their actual displacement fully loaded.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 24, 2020, 01:09:00 PM
http://destroyerhistory.org/fletcherclass/ (http://destroyerhistory.org/fletcherclass/)

Looks like about 500 tons of fuel oil, a significant portion of their actual displacement fully loaded.
See my edited post 2 above yours.  492 tons.  Close to 25% of normal displacement.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2020, 01:10:36 PM
Yeah, I posted while you were editing.

I'm rather amazed by that.  So, if an Iowa class has 7500 tons when full, refueling a DD would put a big dent in that in actuality.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 24, 2020, 01:18:09 PM
Well, it would usually be more of a top-off than a near-total refuel, so figure maybe 200-250 tons/refuel on average.

I imagine those fleet oilers were busy during the major campaigns.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2020, 01:24:37 PM
Lack of AOs was a major problem for the IJN of course (in addition to not having enough refined oil to fill them).  Later in the war, some major IJN ships used unrefined petroleum which includes the volatiles, akin to gasoline.  Not good to have in a battle.

The US Navy of course made mistakes, they are inevitable in war.  But the Japanese could not afford to make any or have any bad luck.

The Yamato and Musashi were wasted expenditures for them.  The Germans wasted a lot of effort on a nearly complete aircraft carrier.  They couldn't afford a misstep either.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 24, 2020, 01:28:16 PM
Speaking of brisket, I'll be smoking one tomorrow.  I mean, what else do I have to do all day? :)

Issue invitations?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 24, 2020, 01:38:07 PM
Lack of AOs was a major problem for the IJN of course (in addition to not having enough refined oil to fill them).  Later in the war, some major IJN ships used unrefined petroleum which includes the volatiles, akin to gasoline.  Not good to have in a battle.

The US Navy of course made mistakes, they are inevitable in war.  But the Japanese could not afford to make any or have any bad luck.

The Yamato and Musashi were wasted expenditures for them.  The Germans wasted a lot of effort on a nearly complete aircraft carrier.  They couldn't afford a misstep either.
In both cases, their critical missteps began with starting the war in the 1st place.
With each victory, starting with his diplomatic triumph at Munich, Hitler added new enemies.  He underestimated British resolve and the USSR's ability to swallow his armies.  He underestimated us, exulting after Pearl Harbor that victory was assured because the Japanese hadn't lost a war in all their 3,000 years of existence.
Japan underestimated us, thinking we were soft and would quit after a few shots to the solar plexus.
Both of them went to war without economies that could sustain a long fight.
So, as you imply, they had to be perfect.  To make no mistakes.  They had no margin for error.
But everybody makes mistakes in war, because the enemy is interactive and often does not cooperate by reacting as it is wished that he would.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2020, 01:43:24 PM
The Japanese were in a bind once we cut their oil supply.  Their generals in China were not under central control.  So, the idea they could have simply pulled back from China was not realistic for them.  They had a very short supply of oil for their economy.  The oil fields in SE Asia were there for the taking, but the US had kept the PI from 1900 that was astride their supply line.

So, what could they do realistically?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 24, 2020, 01:48:43 PM
The Japanese were in a bind once we cut their oil supply.  Their generals in China were not under central control.  So, the idea they could have simply pulled back from China was not realistic for them.  They had a very short supply of oil for their economy.  The oil fields in SE Asia were there for the taking, but the US had kept the PI from 1900 that was astride their supply line.

So, what could they do realistically?
Go back in time and not invade China in the first place.  Be satisfied with control of Manchuria (Manchukuo).
As for what could they have done from the summer of 1941 onward?  Probably nothing that their national character and aspirations would have permitted.  They were committed to aggressive expansion and we were in their way.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 24, 2020, 01:55:24 PM
Issue invitations?
Come on down.  Just maintain  socially safe distance, of course.

The smoker is next to my fence and I'm on a corner lot, so you can just camp out on the street on the other side, and I'll lob meat over to you.

I even have a case of Live Oak Roggenbier I picked up at the brewery a few days ago!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2020, 05:45:32 PM
It's interesting to suppose what might have become of Hitler had he not invaded the USSR.  (That of course was his whole reason for being, so it's illogical in a way.)

With fairly modest effort, he could have reinforced the Afrika Korps to the point it would have driven the British out of the Med.  That would have opened up the oil fields for the taking.  He was getting raw materials from Stalin in significant quantities.  He had the Baltic locked up.  He probably could have starved GB to the point Churchill would have lost favor.  The Third Reich might be there today.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 24, 2020, 05:50:21 PM

I even have a case of Live Oak Roggenbier I picked up at the brewery a few days ago!
And what type of malty goodness is this?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 24, 2020, 07:06:56 PM
It's interesting to suppose what might have become of Hitler had he not invaded the USSR.  (That of course was his whole reason for being, so it's illogical in a way.)

With fairly modest effort, he could have reinforced the Afrika Korps to the point it would have driven the British out of the Med.  That would have opened up the oil fields for the taking.  He was getting raw materials from Stalin in significant quantities.  He had the Baltic locked up.  He probably could have starved GB to the point Churchill would have lost favor.  The Third Reich might be there today.
Well, Great Britain wasn't going to invade the continent and defeat Germany by itself, so if Hitler could have limited his enemies to Britain and the exile Poles, Czechs, and French, he would have been in a powerful position, albeit one with large, restive, dangerous, captive populations.  But I don't think we were going to let Britain starve once the Brits showed their mettle in the Battle of Britain.  We already had Lend-Lease going to the Brits (March 1941?) before Hitler invaded the USSR, and that eventually could have led us into conflict with Germany.  As it was, we were in a shooting war with Germany in the North Atlantic by October 1941.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 24, 2020, 07:07:33 PM
It's interesting to suppose what might have become of Hitler had he not invaded the USSR.  (That of course was his whole reason for being, so it's illogical in a way.)

With fairly modest effort, he could have reinforced the Afrika Korps to the point it would have driven the British out of the Med.  That would have opened up the oil fields for the taking.  He was getting raw materials from Stalin in significant quantities.  He had the Baltic locked up.  He probably could have starved GB to the point Churchill would have lost favor.  The Third Reich might be there today.
It is also interesting to ponder whether the US could have help win that war (with the UK) on its own, without the USSR involved on that front. I mean, a lot of resources were spent winning the war in the Pacific.

Would the US have used "the bomb" to beat Hitler, without USSR involved? I think probably not. But maybe??
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2020, 07:18:18 PM
For the US/UK to face the entire Wehrmacht with an amphibious landing ...  ouch.

I doubt it was possible.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 24, 2020, 07:26:15 PM
We wouldn't have been able to successfully land in Normandy in 1944 without the Soviet Union in the war.  But we eventually could have worn down Germany's air defenses, and, if necessary, used the atomic bomb on Germany.  That was the target in everyone's mind when the Manhattan Project was approved.

We probably would have had to devote fewer resources to the Pacific.  Had it be a true holding campaign rather than a counteroffensive starting in August 1942 in the Solomons.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 24, 2020, 07:55:26 PM
Devastation man. Holy shit.

Imagine if the US went to Tokyo with that bomb? Obviously, they thought about it and thought to not do it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 24, 2020, 08:53:45 PM
Tokyo had by then been pretty much wiped out by firebombing, Badge.  With more loss of life than Hiroshima suffered.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 24, 2020, 10:28:30 PM
And what type of malty goodness is this?
So good, its made from rye, and actually lighter ABV than a standard lager though you'd not know from the flavor, so a bit sessionable.

https://liveoakbrewing.com/roggenbier/

 (https://liveoakbrewing.com/roggenbier/)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2020, 10:13:33 AM
Tokyo had by then been pretty much wiped out by firebombing, Badge.  With more loss of life than Hiroshima suffered.
But not leveled, right? Wouldn't many more have died had they dropped it there?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 25, 2020, 10:25:14 AM
 We already had Lend-Lease going to the Brits (March 1941?) before Hitler invaded the USSR,
And the Atlantic Charter before that(1939?).US Ships were sailing under British Flags.Probably broke some international law but it wasn't like the Reich wasn't getting jiggy with them already
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 25, 2020, 10:29:33 AM
So good, its made from rye, and actually lighter ABV than a standard lager though you'd not know from the flavor, so a bit sessionable.

https://liveoakbrewing.com/roggenbier/ (https://liveoakbrewing.com/roggenbier/)
LOL - in other words having more than one - your foodie narratives are carrying over.Anyhoo that sounds like some fine suds
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2020, 10:51:27 AM
But not leveled, right? Wouldn't many more have died had they dropped it there?
There wasn't much left after the fire bombing.  The US wanted a fairly intact city so they could assess how much damage was done.  This was a never before used weapon type and was detonated at about a mile in the air, so the test of the other weapon type at Trinity didn't provide that information.

The cities targeted had not yet been bombed significantly.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2020, 11:02:57 AM
Gotcha.

I need to learn more about what went down in the Pacific, obviously. I mean, I know about Pearl Harbor (who doesn't) and MacArthur's slow march through the islands to recapture the Philippines, but not much else. I guess I've concentrated too much on what went down in Europe.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2020, 11:10:59 AM
The US effort had two fronts, MacArthur's which relied on island hopping and up through New Guinea, which was a bit unimaginative really, and what Nimitz was doing in the central pacific, which was directed at Guam/Tinian/Saipan as bases for the B-29s.  The Phillipines could have been bypassed.  Peleliu should have been bypassed, it was irrelevant, and a very nasty fight that took 1st MarDiv out of the Iwo fight.  We wanted Iwo Jima as a landing field for damaged B29s.

Of course, hindsight and all that, the Japanese should have been more careful at Midway and should have launched a third attack at Pearl.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 25, 2020, 11:41:44 AM
And the Atlantic Charter before that(1939?).US Ships were sailing under British Flags.Probably broke some international law but it wasn't like the Reich wasn't getting jiggy with them already
Atlantic Charter was August 1941, at the end of the FDR-Churchill meeting aboard the battleship HMS Prince of Wales (survivor of the Battle of the Denmark Straits vs. Bismarck) at Placentia Bay, Newfoundland.
I don't know about U.S. ships sailing under British flags.  But after we started with Lend-Lease shipments, we began using the U.S. Navy to escort them halfway across the Atlantic, at which point the Royal Navy picked them up and escorted them the rest of the way.  Certainly violated the international agreement (that had been violated so often by all parties during WWI) regarding the behavior of neutrals.  We hadn't declared war, but we weren't neutral by that point.
Epilogue: Prince of Wales, along with battle-cruiser HMS Repulse, would be sunk off the coast of Malaya almost exactly four months later on 10 Dec 1941.  They were the first two capital ships to be sunk totally by air attack.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 25, 2020, 11:46:34 AM

Of course, hindsight and all that, the Japanese should have been more careful at Midway and should have launched a third attack at Pearl.


Distance,daylight9perhaps) and not knowing where the US Flat Tops were kept them from doing that.Found out 6months later what ignorance of enemy falt tops could do
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 25, 2020, 11:49:49 AM
I don't know about U.S. ships sailing under British flags
I was in a WWII Naval Forum somewhere and this was discussed and linked.I confused that with the Atlantic Charter
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 25, 2020, 11:56:49 AM
The US effort had two fronts, MacArthur's which relied on island hopping and up through New Guinea, which was a bit unimaginative really, and what Nimitz was doing in the central pacific, which was directed at Guam/Tinian/Saipan as bases for the B-29s.  The Phillipines could have been bypassed.  Peleliu should have been bypassed, it was irrelevant, and a very nasty fight that took 1st MarDiv out of the Iwo fight.  We wanted Iwo Jima as a landing field for damaged B29s.

Of course, hindsight and all that, the Japanese should have been more careful at Midway and should have launched a third attack at Pearl.
Peleliu was probably Nimitz' worst mistake of the war.
Iwo Jima's role as an emergency landing field for B-29s has been overemphasized to help justify the huge casualties we absorbed in taking the island.  The claim that 25,000 American airmen were saved by way of emergency landings at Iwo can't be sustained.

The Japanese were brave and audacious, but they never seemed to get the proper balance between boldness and caution.  The raid on Pearl Harbor was strategically bold, but Nagumo executed it in a cautious way.  That raid needed to hit the Navy so hard that it would not be combat effective for at least the next 6 months, and would have to withdraw back to bases on the West Coast for logistical reasons.  Instead, it only destroyed 2 battleships and a few smaller vessels.  The other BBs they "sank" were refloated, repaired, and sent back into the war (not that they were all that vital anyway).  The carriers were not in port, and the Japanese left the tank farms, the sub base, and other maintenance and C2 facilities virtually untouched.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 25, 2020, 12:01:20 PM
t after we started with Lend-Lease shipments, we began using the U.S. Navy to escort them halfway across the Atlantic, at which point the Royal Navy picked them up and escorted them the rest of the way. 
I read somewhere there was 300 miles of open water in the N.Atlantic that either Navy/Coast Guard couldn't touch(w/o refueling).Started employing B-24 submarine patrols.The Liberators at the time were the only aircraft that could fly non stop across the Atlantic
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2020, 01:11:21 PM
Peleliu was probably Nimitz' worst mistake of the war.
Iwo Jima's role as an emergency landing field for B-29s has been overemphasized to help justify the huge casualties we absorbed in taking the island.  The claim that 25,000 American airmen were saved by way of emergency landings at Iwo can't be sustained.

The Japanese were brave and audacious, but they never seemed to get the proper balance between boldness and caution.  The raid on Pearl Harbor was strategically bold, but Nagumo executed it in a cautious way.  That raid needed to hit the Navy so hard that it would not be combat effective for at least the next 6 months, and would have to withdraw back to bases on the West Coast for logistical reasons.  Instead, it only destroyed 2 battleships and a few smaller vessels.  The other BBs they "sank" were refloated, repaired, and sent back into the war (not that they were all that vital anyway).  The carriers were not in port, and the Japanese left the tank farms, the sub base, and other maintenance and C2 facilities virtually untouched.
My dad served as an electricians mate in the navy during WWII and landed on Peleliu after it was taken

He used to tell stories of watching corsairs take off fly across a bay and dropping their load all the while never retracting their landing gear

He claimed it was the shortest bombing run in WWII although Im not sure about that

He used to tell some real interesting stories about that place
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2020, 01:38:43 PM
The "jeep carriers" (CVEs) helped close the Atlantic gap.  They were merchant hulls given a flat top to operate planes.  That was a very effective expedient.  They were called "Combustible, Vulnerable, and Expendable".  They were also handy in moving planes around the Pacific.

(https://i.imgur.com/UtdCC19.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 25, 2020, 03:07:38 PM
I read somewhere there was 300 miles of open water in the N.Atlantic that either Navy/Coast Guard couldn't touch(w/o refueling).Started employing B-24 submarine patrols.The Liberators at the time were the only aircraft that could fly non stop across the Atlantic
Yeah, the old "Mid-Ocean Gap."  Libs were the fix for it.
I'd have rather been in a B-17 than a B-24, but there were things Libs could do and Flying Forts couldn't.
Speaking of airplane names, we didn't assign them until WWII, and we sort of just followed suit behind the Brits, who had long given their aircraft official names and then did the same with purchased (later Lend-Lease) P-36s, P-40s, B-17s, F4Fs, PBYs, etc.
Some of our WWII airplane names were the coolest ever.  Warhawk.  Flying Fortress.  Wildcat.  Hellcat.  Corsair.  Lightning.  Thunderbolt.  Mustang.  Liberator.  Dauntless.  Avenger.  Catalina.
And those great airplanes were mostly built by women.  Thank God for all the Rosies.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 25, 2020, 03:09:15 PM
My dad served as an electricians mate in the navy during WWII and landed on Peleliu after it was taken

He used to tell stories of watching corsairs take off fly across a bay and dropping their load all the while never retracting their landing gear

He claimed it was the shortest bombing run in WWII although Im not sure about that

He used to tell some real interesting stories about that place
I've heard that story too, 320.
Seems weird.  Seems that if you're that close to the enemy, his artillery ought to be raining down on you.
Yet, apparently, it is true.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2020, 03:14:57 PM
I'd guess Japanese artillery was raining down on the air field.  It was on the "Canal of course, along with Japanese battleships coming in at night.  I am still shocked that battleships could not put an airfield out of operation for days.  They cruised the straits with impunity and rained down shells most of the night.  Henderson Field was mostly up and running the next morning despite losing some planes.  Those IJN BBs should have been able to demolish the air strip with their 14 inch guns.

The Seabees don't get their due.  Take out Henderson Field and this battle probably is a major US defeat.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 25, 2020, 03:19:28 PM
The "jeep carriers" (CVEs) helped close the Atlantic gap.  They were merchant hulls given a flat top to operate planes.  That was a very effective expedient.  They were called "Combustible, Vulnerable, and Expendable".  They were also handy in moving planes around the Pacific.

(https://i.imgur.com/UtdCC19.jpg)
And in their finest hour, at extreme cost to themselves, they and their tin-can escorts chased the heavily armed Japanese fleet built around the super-battleship Musashi Yamato away from the landing beaches of Leyte.
Trivia: CVE-57 had three names: Aikula Bay, Coral Sea, and Anzio.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2020, 03:28:58 PM
It was the Yamato, the Musashi had been sunk earlier by carrier based aircraft.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 25, 2020, 03:30:33 PM
I'd guess Japanese artillery was raining down on the air field.  It was on the "Canal of course, along with Japanese battleships coming in at night.  I am still shocked that battleships could not put an airfield out of operation for days.  They cruised the straits with impunity and rained down shells most of the night.  Henderson Field was mostly up and running the next morning despite losing some planes.  Those IJN BBs should have been able to demolish the air strip with their 14 inch guns.

The Seabees don't get their due.  Take out Henderson Field and this battle probably is a major US defeat.
Guadalcanal.  What a battle.

U.S. Marines and, later, Army troops on the ground.  U.S. Marines and, later, Army Air Force in the air.  U.S. and Australian Navies at sea.  All fighting more or less simultaneously, and if any element of the air-land-sea combination failed the whole operation would have collapsed.

“Guadalcanal is no longer merely a name of an island in Japanese military history. It is the name of the graveyard of the Japanese army.”

~ Major General Kiyotake Kawaguchi, IJA, Commander, 35th Infantry Brigade at Guadalcanal
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 25, 2020, 03:32:21 PM
It was the Yamato, the Musashi had been sunk earlier by carrier based aircraft.
I stand corrected.  That's not the first time I've made that error either.  ~???
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2020, 03:33:37 PM
https://www.history.navy.mil/browse-by-topic/wars-conflicts-and-operations/world-war-ii/1944/samar.html (https://www.history.navy.mil/browse-by-topic/wars-conflicts-and-operations/world-war-ii/1944/samar.html)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 25, 2020, 03:52:49 PM
Random - did anyone know UNC and WF played, as a non-conference game in 2019?  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on April 25, 2020, 04:35:53 PM
Yes.  We discussed this in a thread.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 25, 2020, 04:45:06 PM
Thanks.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 25, 2020, 05:08:42 PM
https://www.history.navy.mil/browse-by-topic/wars-conflicts-and-operations/world-war-ii/1944/samar.html (https://www.history.navy.mil/browse-by-topic/wars-conflicts-and-operations/world-war-ii/1944/samar.html)
That's a good account.
Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors, by James Hornfischer, is a good book on the subject.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 25, 2020, 06:05:23 PM

[font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif]To me, "drink responsibly" means don't spill it.
When I say, "The other day," I could be referring to any time between yesterday and 15 years ago.
 
Interviewer: "So, tell me about yourself."
Me: "I'd rather not. I kinda want this job."
 
Cop: "Please step out of the car."
Me: "I'm too drunk. You get in."

I remember being able to get up without making sound effects.
I had my patience tested. I'm negative.
If you're sitting in public and a stranger takes the seat next to you, just stare straight ahead and say "Did you bring the money?"
When you ask me what I am doing today, and I say "nothing," it does not mean I am free.  It means I am doing nothing.
Age 60 might be the new 40, but 9:00 is new midnight.
I finally got eight hours of sleep. It took me three days, but whatever.
I run like the winded.
I hate when a couple argues in public, and I missed the beginning and don't know whose side I'm on.
When someone asks what I did over the weekend, I squint and ask, "Why, what did you hear?"
I don't remember much from last night, but the fact that I needed sunglasses to open the fridge this morning tells me it was awesome.
When you do squats, are your knees supposed to sound like a goat chewing on an aluminum can stuffed with celery?
I don't mean to interrupt people. I just randomly remember things and get really excited.
When I ask for directions, please don't use words like "east."
It's the start of a brand-new day, and I'm off like a herd of turtles.
Don't bother walking a mile in my shoes. That would be boring.
Spend 30 seconds in my head. That'll freak you right out.
That moment when you walk into a spider web suddenly turns you into a karate master.
Sometimes, someone unexpected comes into your life outta nowhere, makes your heart race, and changes you forever. We call those people cops.
The older I get, the earlier it gets late.
My luck is like a bald guy who just won a comb.[/font]
[/font]
[/font]
[/font]
[/font]
[/font]
[/color]

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 26, 2020, 12:31:31 AM
weird thing the convo reminded me of: 

an old fella lived across the street from me for a long time before he finally passed... old- real old.. he was a doctor during WWII old... So he lived there alone and i lived alone too at the time.  it was between Christmas and NY's and i was watching football- during a commercial i looked out toward his place and noticed his living room lit up blue at the same time mine did.. went dark when mine did... lit up white or red or whatever- he was watching the same game i was... i made a decision to ask him over for dinner, as i wondered where all his 'people' were in his life for him to be shut in that time of year... 

a couple days later i saw him in his yard and went to speak to him... he introduced himself and apologized for not coming over and introducing himself, just as he had at least a dozen times before... poor fella.... but anyway i brought up football and asked him if he wanted to come over and have dinner and watch a game.... 

so he tells me using language that made me really believe him about how bad he HATES college football.  but then he tells me something i didn't know- during the war- i think he said '42? the Rose Bowl was played in NC... Raleigh to be exact.. and the Duke Blue Devils played Oregon State Beavers... I didn't know this at the time, and thought he was just scrambled in the head.... after a bit i stepped off and got back to my house, gladly alone with the dog and happy he didn't take me up on my offer... who the hell doesn't like College Football? Seriously..... 

uh....

turns out he was right.  you'd think i would have known this.. I may have shared this here before... i can't recall... could be i'm headed the same direction as that old fella.... 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 26, 2020, 12:34:34 AM
This is the 6th time you posted that story....in this thread.  :57:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 26, 2020, 12:39:32 AM
friends birthday.... and i missed his wife's... repentance...
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/94707043_10158759617743755_8747250817326645248_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=mcnIhLCMXcMAX8quivZ&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=5730f5d554e1c3f29bb95d72891da2d0&oe=5ECBEC81)

(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/94703209_10158759617808755_3634855342573092864_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=Zk1IlznlSYAAX-gGaNA&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=dfde6b3e7737106d09f9d2e8e3499f43&oe=5EC8D4B9)

(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/94886970_10158759618178755_3869624392480718848_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=TDYPZtTrpMIAX_EL7KX&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=9b0ad8ded5ba2d25fb81e9fe5225be5d&oe=5EC9BB95)

Sapele and Curly Maple... it's 12.5" wide and 17" long, and 1.75" thick... the resin will set tonight and i'll run it through the planer once again, making the top smooth... the big letters are inset curly maple, 1/4" thick... the small lettering is flooded with resin and has curly maple sawdust floated in it--- i hope it turns out well, because right now (before i carve the resin flat) it looks pretty cool- sort of a 3d effect..

and.... i guy i tolerate came by, drank a bunch of my beer, and made a suggestion... i HATE i never thought of it.. I'll hold on to what he offered as suggestion until i actually make one.... but let me say this is the last of this style of board.  there is a way i'd never considered using that CNC Router that never occurred to me.. other than inlays, i just make these boards when i collect enough scrap material that doesn't have another purpose... but the next one? I'll be leveraging that thing in a way i've never seen done before, and... i think they will be freaking SUPER cool.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 26, 2020, 12:40:53 AM
This is the 6th time you posted that story....in this thread.  :57:
i don't doubt it, bro... or is that 'fro? 

dude.. you're a historian of sorts... did you know the rose bowl was played in Raleigh/Durham during the war? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 26, 2020, 01:21:46 AM
I did. I found out it was in Durham first, which seemed random as hell.  But made more sense when I saw Duke was in it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 26, 2020, 01:35:34 AM
I did. I found out it was in Durham first, which seemed random as hell.  But made more sense when I saw Duke was in it.
i've got this crazy story about that game i'll share with you some time.. it involves this really old dude who used to live across the street from me.. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 26, 2020, 08:28:05 AM
That's a good account.
Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors, by James Hornfischer, is a good book on the subject.
Years ago that was reviewed by a writer in an article I was reading and he really liked it and gave us a 2 thumbs
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 26, 2020, 08:43:52 AM
Sapele and Curly Maple... it's 12.5" wide and 17" long, and 1.75" thick... the resin will set tonight and i'll run it through the planer once again, making the top smooth... the big letters are inset curly maple, 1/4" thick... the small lettering is flooded with resin and has curly maple sawdust floated in it--- i hope it turns out well, because right now (before i carve the resin flat) it looks pretty cool- sort of a 3d effect..

and.... i guy i tolerate came by, drank a bunch of my beer, and made a suggestion... i HATE i never thought of it.. I'll hold on to what he offered as suggestion until i actually make one.... but let me say this is the last of this style of board.  there is a way i'd never considered using that CNC Router that never occurred to me.. other than inlays, i just make these boards when i collect enough scrap material that doesn't have another purpose... but the next one? I'll be leveraging that thing in a way i've never seen done before, and... i think they will be freaking SUPER cool.
I was just thinking of that the other day with everything going on didn't bring it up.I may contact you,if you're still thinking of making more,have to find out what shipping would be.Those are sharp 😎
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2020, 08:51:04 AM
That is a super-nice cutting board.

And yeah, the "Rose" bowl was played at Dook that year. Organizers were afraid that the "Japs" might bomb Pasadena.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2020, 08:55:37 AM
Years ago that was reviewed by a writer in an article I was reading and he really liked it and gave us a 2 thumbs
I have the book around here somewhere.  Leyte Gulf naval battle is rather interesting I think and not covered by any movie and thus not well known to Americans.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 26, 2020, 09:01:38 AM
That is a super-nice cutting board.

And yeah, the "Rose" bowl was played at Dook that year. Organizers were afraid that the "Japs" might bomb Pasadena.
A couple of subs may have fired a torpedo or two at the Left Coast.Not sure there was any/much harassment after Pearl.CWS will be by to correct me on that though



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 26, 2020, 09:05:44 AM
I have the book around here somewhere.  Leyte Gulf naval battle is rather interesting I think and not covered by any movie and thus not well known to Americans.
It was the largest Navl Battle of the War and nothing else came close.Be kind of tough to follow a narrative like that in a movie - have to be a mini series.And I doubt it would get good ratings today even if meticulously crafted,like Drew's Boards
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 26, 2020, 09:17:51 AM
When someone asks what I did over the weekend, I squint and ask, "Why, what did you hear?"

one of my usual Monday morning lines
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 26, 2020, 09:20:26 AM
Or you tell me
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 26, 2020, 09:32:50 AM
Leyte Gulf naval battle is rather interesting
I have to read that only have read/watched snippets of this battle.I do remember reading US Naval forces didn't have an over all Admiral at this battle and evidently neither did the IJN.So the order of battle was really uncoordinated.Some of the forces were under Nimitz/Halsey and others still under MacArthur(mistake IMO) and efforts disjointed.Should have left Nimitz orchestrate as he got them that far.However Halsey did get suckered into some well planned ruse and the 7th fleet was having their own problems also.But then things weren't going so well either for the IJN.Big messy boat brawl really
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2020, 10:13:32 AM
The Japanese did launch balloons filled with incendiaries that reached Oregon et al. and caused some fired.  I dimly recall that a Japanese sub surfaced and shelled LA once or twice, ineffectively.

As for Leyte, Nimitz was "overall Admiral" but he was on shore.  The Surigao Strait battle was the last one with battleships firing on their counterparts in history, a rare event anyway.  US naval air power was just dominant despite mistakes.  The IJN also did not coordinate with the army in the war much at all and Army planes were supposed to strike in coordinated fashion.  Some kamikazes did hit some of our ships including a light carrier sunk.

A lot of folks like to role play a battle had Halsey left the fast BBs behind to guard the strait through which the Yamato came through.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on April 26, 2020, 10:17:33 AM
The Japanese did launch balloons filled with incendiaries that reached Oregon et al. and caused some fired.  I dimly recall that a Japanese sub surfaced and shelled LA once or twice, ineffectively.

As for Leyte, Nimitz was "overall Admiral" but he was on shore.  The Surigao Strait battle was the last one with battleships firing on their counterparts in history, a rare event anyway.  US naval air power was just dominant despite mistakes.  The IJN also did not coordinate with the army in the war much at all and Army planes were supposed to strike in coordinated fashion.  Some kamikazes did hit some of our ships including a light carrier sunk.

A lot of folks like to role play a battle had Halsey left the fast BBs behind to guard the strait through which the Yamato came through.
there were actually fatalities associated with one of those balloons 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2020, 10:37:46 AM
The Bombardment of Ellwood during World War II was a naval attack by a Japanese submarine against United States coastal targets near Santa Barbara, California. Though damage was minimal, the event was key in triggering the West Coast invasion scare and influenced the decision to intern Japanese-Americans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardment_of_Ellwood (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardment_of_Ellwood)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2020, 10:39:46 AM
Jake and Ellwood after the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor ...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 26, 2020, 10:52:54 AM
look, a baby Wolf!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2020, 11:06:15 AM
Before Pearl Harbor, many Americans viewed Japanese (to the extent they noticed at all) as buck toothed incompetent Asians racially inferior.  After PH, they suddenly were violent supermen with incredible martial powers.

Folks had a hard time grasping the logistical challenges in sending a fleet across the Pacific Ocean.

The IJN fleet after PH spent a good bit of effort attacking the British in India and Ceylon, an area of operations of somewhat limited strategic importance for them at the time.

And after the Doolittle attack, the Japanese then over reacted in turn.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 26, 2020, 11:44:28 AM
I have the book around here somewhere.  Leyte Gulf naval battle is rather interesting I think and not covered by any movie and thus not well known to Americans.
Heh!  If it's not in a movie starring the latest Hollywood skanks and doofuses, it didn't happen!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 26, 2020, 11:45:53 AM
A couple of subs may have fired a torpedo or two at the Left Coast.Not sure there was any/much harassment after Pearl.CWS will be by to correct me on that though
Heh!  CD already beat me to it!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 26, 2020, 12:12:08 PM
I have to read that only have read/watched snippets of this battle.I do remember reading US Naval forces didn't have an over all Admiral at this battle and evidently neither did the IJN.So the order of battle was really uncoordinated.Some of the forces were under Nimitz/Halsey and others still under MacArthur(mistake IMO) and efforts disjointed.Should have left Nimitz orchestrate as he got them that far.However Halsey did get suckered into some well planned ruse and the 7th fleet was having their own problems also.But then things weren't going so well either for the IJN.Big messy boat brawl really
The fundamental problem was that the Philippines was at the convergence of MacArthur's South-West Pacific Area command and Nimitz' Central Pacific Area command.  Neither of them was put in overall command, so we did not have unity of command at the level where operations turns into strategy.  Halsey's 3rd Fleet was under Nimitz' command, while Kinkaid's 7th Fleet was under MacArthur's command.  This sounds funny, but it wasn't.  MacArthur had been fighting in New Guinea and the Solomons, and 7th Fleet was the "navy" assigned to him.  In the same way, while Nimitz' ground striking power was mostly Marines, there were also Army combat units assigned to his command, increasingly so as the war went on.
The problem at Leyte Gulf was that the two theater commands were just cooperating rather than working under the same commander.
So the "Taffy 3" fight off Samar was fought by elements of Kinkaid's (MacArthur's) 7th Fleet, as was the battleship fight at Surigao Straight, while the carrier battles (sub-battles of the overall battle) were under Halsey, who worked for Nimitz.  And Halsey got a little froggy at the chance to destroy the Japanese' last carrier fleet and was decayed away from Leyte Gulf chasing empty carriers.
Back when the Army still emphasized "principles of war," one of the most important was Unity of Command.  When you don't have it, there is a greater chance for things to go wrong once the enemy starts doing things not anticipated in the plan.  One of the most glaring flaws exposed in the April 1980 "Desert One" attempt to rescue our hostage in Iran.  There were USAF special ops C-130s, Army Delta Force and Rangers, Marines launching from Navy ships flying Navy helicopters, and nobody in overall charge who could talk to everybody else.
Same problems were exposed in the Grenada invasion, and we ended up having some of our troops in the 82nd Airborne Division killed by USAF A-7s strafing a brigade tactical operations center (TOC).  They were using different maps with different sets of coordinates and were not talking to each other by radio.
Anyway, back to Leyte, that was the problem off Samar.  The fleet carriers with the airpower to do something against Kurita's battleships were not talking to "Taffy 3" because their chains of command went back to Pearl Harbor and Australia, respectively.

Strategically, we could have bypassed the Philippines, but MacArthur had promised that he would return, and the Philippines were an American commonwealth, so national honor and good faith were involved.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 26, 2020, 12:14:20 PM
Before Pearl Harbor, many Americans viewed Japanese (to the extent they noticed at all) as buck toothed incompetent Asians racially inferior.  After PH, they suddenly were violent supermen with incredible martial powers.

Folks had a hard time grasping the logistical challenges in sending a fleet across the Pacific Ocean.

The IJN fleet after PH spent a good bit of effort attacking the British in India and Ceylon, an area of operations of somewhat limited strategic importance for them at the time.

And after the Doolittle attack, the Japanese then over reacted in turn.
And a good thing it was that they did.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 26, 2020, 12:30:00 PM
Jake and Ellwood after the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor ...
Remember the flick 1941 (flop)with Belushi.Japanes sailor sees that chicks backside and says ohhh Horrywood - probably the high light of the movie
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 26, 2020, 12:35:08 PM
Heh!  If it's not in a movie starring the latest Hollywood skanks and doofuses, it didn't happen!
The movie Pearl Harbor with Affleck and Beckinsale might as well been "Star Wars Return of  the Skanks and Doofuses" for it's historical accuracy.Right up there with U-571
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2020, 12:36:18 PM
And a good thing it was that they did.
Countries at war tend to over react.  I could say France under reacted in May, 1940.  It's fascinating to read how entrenched they were in their thinking  (ha).  They'd fight this war in Belgium instead of northern France and let the Germans run up huge casualties as they dug in on defense.

I have an old US newspaper article from that time noting reports of German motorcycle units breaking through at Sedan.  I guess that was what the French HC thought at the time, just some annoying bees.  Hitler was very lucky in one sense, and unlucky that it confirmed for him the idea that his concepts were all wonderful.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2020, 12:37:10 PM
The movie Pearl Harbor with Affleck and Beckinsale might as well been "Star Wars Return of  the Skanks and Doofuses" for it's historical accuracy.Right up there with U-571
The worst I ever saw I think was "Battle of the Bulge" with Fonda.  It took what really was a fascinating story and turned it into a mess.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on April 26, 2020, 12:41:30 PM
Remember the flick 1941 (flop)with Belushi.Japanes sailor sees that chicks backside and says ohhh Horrywood - probably the high light of the movie
There were a lot of great scenes in that movie

one of my favorite ones was the scene where Dan Aykroyd was telling Ned Beatty what he should never do to fire the artillery gun with detailed instructions
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on April 26, 2020, 12:42:24 PM
The worst I ever saw I think was "Battle of the Bulge" with Fonda.  It took what really was a fascinating story and turned it into a mess.
Band of Brothers was much better
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 26, 2020, 12:46:34 PM
The worst I ever saw I think was "Battle of the Bulge" with Fonda.  It took what really was a fascinating story and turned it into a mess.
Ya well they fimed it in Spain with no snow or tree lined hills
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2020, 12:53:55 PM
I recall one scene where "German tanks" (I think they were M-48s) lined up on a hill and started shelling a town.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 26, 2020, 12:57:20 PM
There were a lot of great scenes in that movie

one of my favorite ones was the scene where Dan Aykroyd was telling Ned Beatty what he should never do to fire the artillery gun with detailed instructions
the baby wolf reference

I enjoyed the trainer plane scene with a bra for auto pilot
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2020, 01:08:15 PM
At its peak the U.S. Navy was operating 6,768 ships around VJ Day at the end of August, 1945. The number includes 28 aircraft carriers, 23 battleships, 71 escort carriers, 72 cruisers, 232 submarines and 377 destroyers along with thousands of other ships like destroyer escorts, minesweepers, amphibious landing ships, command ships, supply ships, repair and auxiliary ships of all kinds.

(https://i.imgur.com/hWSqzN1.png)

The photo shows the USN 3rd Fleet anchorage at Ulithi Atoll, 8 Dec. 1944 -- just 3 years after Pearl Harbor. The carriers are (from front to back): USS Wasp (CV-18), USS Yorktown (CV-10), USS Hornet (CV-12), USS Hancock (CV-19) and USS Ticonderoga (CV-14). Wasp, Yorktown and Ticonderoga are painted in camouflage Measure 33, Design 10a. The Fletcher class destroyer behind them is probably USS Healy (DD-672), painted in Measure S31/21D.

Behind the main row
: USS Langley (CVL-27) USS Lexington (CV-16) and USS San Jacinto (CVL-30)

Across the back are the Battleships:

USS Washington (BB-56)

USS Iowa (BB-61)

USS South Dakota (BB-57)

USS New Jersey (BB-62)

Beyond the main row of carriers and to the right are the cruisers:

USS Santa Fe (CL-60) USS Mobile (CL-63) USS Biloxi (CL-80) and USS New Orleans (CA-32).

Photographed by an aircraft from CV-14.[/font][/size][/color][/font][/size][/color]
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 26, 2020, 08:05:48 PM
The movie Pearl Harbor with Affleck and Beckinsale might as well been "Star Wars Return of  the Skanks and Doofuses" for it's historical accuracy.Right up there with U-571
Beckinsale is a verrrrry "talented" actress.  Like fully.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 26, 2020, 10:45:41 PM
The movie Pearl Harbor with Affleck and Beckinsale might as well been "Star Wars Return of  the Skanks and Doofuses" for it's historical accuracy.Right up there with U-571
Yep.  I wasted my money on both of those pieces of crap.  U-571 was just a throwaway piece of crap.  Pearl Harbor was a multi-bazillion-dollar mega-blockbuster piece of crap.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 26, 2020, 10:49:28 PM
Countries at war tend to over react.  I could say France under reacted in May, 1940.  It's fascinating to read how entrenched they were in their thinking  (ha).  They'd fight this war in Belgium instead of northern France and let the Germans run up huge casualties as they dug in on defense.

I have an old US newspaper article from that time noting reports of German motorcycle units breaking through at Sedan.  I guess that was what the French HC thought at the time, just some annoying bees.  Hitler was very lucky in one sense, and unlucky that it confirmed for him the idea that his concepts were all wonderful.
Another wrongheaded thing it confirmed for him was that Germany didn't need to fully mobilize its economy for war.
They didn't even start doing that until 1942, after the failed conclusion to the 1941 campaign in Russia.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 26, 2020, 10:50:26 PM
The worst I ever saw I think was "Battle of the Bulge" with Fonda.  It took what really was a fascinating story and turned it into a mess.
"Mess" is right.  Literally and figuratively.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 26, 2020, 11:00:47 PM
At its peak the U.S. Navy was operating 6,768 ships around VJ Day at the end of August, 1945. The number includes 28 aircraft carriers, 23 battleships, 71 escort carriers, 72 cruisers, 232 submarines and 377 destroyers along with thousands of other ships like destroyer escorts, minesweepers, amphibious landing ships, command ships, supply ships, repair and auxiliary ships of all kinds.

(https://i.imgur.com/hWSqzN1.png)

The photo shows the USN 3rd Fleet anchorage at Ulithi Atoll, 8 Dec. 1944 -- just 3 years after Pearl Harbor. The carriers are (from front to back): USS Wasp (CV-18), USS Yorktown (CV-10), USS Hornet (CV-12), USS Hancock (CV-19) and USS Ticonderoga (CV-14). Wasp, Yorktown and Ticonderoga are painted in camouflage Measure 33, Design 10a. The Fletcher class destroyer behind them is probably USS Healy (DD-672), painted in Measure S31/21D.

Behind the main row
: USS Langley (CVL-27) USS Lexington (CV-16) and USS San Jacinto (CVL-30)

Across the back are the Battleships:

USS Washington (BB-56)

USS Iowa (BB-61)

USS South Dakota (BB-57)

USS New Jersey (BB-62)

Beyond the main row of carriers and to the right are the cruisers:

USS Santa Fe (CL-60) USS Mobile (CL-63) USS Biloxi (CL-80) and USS New Orleans (CA-32).

Photographed by an aircraft from CV-14.[/font][/size][/color][/font][/size][/color]
Since Enterprise (CV-6) isn't there, all those fleet carriers are of the Essex class.
My across-the-street neighbor was an officer in the common section of Essex-class carrier Lake Champlain in the early '60s.  By that time she was CVS-39, having been converted into an anti-submarine carrier.
He was involved in coding and decoding some very sensitive traffic during the Cuban Missile Crisis.
He was also serving on that ship a year and a half earlier when it was the prime recovery vessel for Alan Shepard's Freedom 7 sub-orbital flight.  Shepard could have beaten the Russkis into space, but NASA insisted on one last test mission with a chimp on board.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 26, 2020, 11:21:53 PM
beckensale of that era is never a waste of money... that lady is put together properly... everywhere but in her head. 

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/94663290_10158761963288755_9207881687545937920_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=1480c5&_nc_ohc=ndpufL3ZvJ8AX_LKxpH&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=821f49fa1873745466309c729ddc0459&oe=5ECC0967)

this was after planing off the excess resin.. i will continue with the technique of filling the small script with sawdust laden resin and top coating... the image doesn't capture it- but the 3D effect is present with the dust at differing depths in every letter.. it is flush over the surface which is something else the image doesn't capture.  Also, the resin filled the tiny gaps in my inlay... the thing about inlays is they are forced in the recess- and will expand after the butchers block oil penetrates- but this made for certain they will never open and allow moisture between the dissimilar woods.  

as i suggested earlier, this is the last board i will make using this construction technique (which is the tried and tested manner).  From here out i will CNC them and set some really cool inlays (to request?)... the 'base/frame' will be of one solid cut, which will eliminate the possibilities of breaking at a bad seam.  the inlays will be at least a 1/2" deep if not more... all while curves and designs other than (but not excluding) geometric can be used.... what that means is i can have almost certain assurance that the board will never break.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 27, 2020, 01:39:18 AM
Yep.  I wasted my money on both of those pieces of crap.  U-571 was just a throwaway piece of crap.  Pearl Harbor was a multi-bazillion-dollar mega-blockbuster piece of crap.
So you preferred Battleship?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2020, 06:06:11 AM
Battleship was pretty obviously meant to be a "fun" movie, not some purported account of actual events.  Yes, it was ridiculous, so are most alien movies.  It was also reasonably fun.

The remake of Midway was, I thought, pointless and horrible.  They substituted CGI for reasonable script lines and writing.  The original was better, IMHO.  I watched the new one on a plane with few other options and nearly turned it off.  This is a problem with movies about historical events.  They aren't documentaries of course but can easily comport to what generally happened without throwing in ahistorical plot lines.

The actual Battle of the Bulge was quite interesting on several fronts, any of which would make a fine movie with some added in "human stories" while sticking to real events.  Slaughterhouse Five for example was not a documentary at all obviously, but it did show some aspects of what happened to the 106th and Dresden.

The movie about the JFK assassination (which I never watched) is another example and folks think often that it was accurate in its portrayal.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 27, 2020, 08:13:19 AM
Slaughterhouse Five for example was not a documentary at all obviously, but it did show some aspects of what happened to the 106th and Dresden.
Have to read that book by Vonnegut.He obviously was there and reffered to his old unit as the "hungry and sick".I had to watch this very intersting YT segment with Stephen Ambrose,Kurt Vonnegut & Joseph Heller the 50th Anniversary of V-E Day in 1995 worth it


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWXXpMWqG9Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWXXpMWqG9Q)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2020, 08:21:47 AM
Yeah, S5 is semi-autobiographical.  It was cold and wet and the 106th was a new division put into a quiet part of the line to gain them some experience scouting and digging and whatnot.  They were all pretty much cold wet and sick at that point.  

The 28th ID had been beaten up in Hurtgen Forest, another attack of dubious merit by the US, and was also in the area and got hit hard but mostly managed with pull back into Bastogne.  The main German attack was north of all that, initially, fortunately that attack was inexpertly handled and ran into two very good US divisions well entrenched.

At that point in the war, Hitler was right to gamble like this, I think, those troops would have made little difference in the East, and there was some remote chance they could cause significant issues for the Americans and British.  It's a bit like Kasserine Pass in a way.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 27, 2020, 08:39:46 AM
Yeah, S5 is semi-autobiographical.  It was cold and wet and the 106th was a new division put into a quiet part of the line to gain them some experience scouting and digging and whatnot.  They were all pretty much cold wet and sick at that point.  The 28th ID had been beaten up in Hurtgen Forest, 
I was just going to post this many of the units tore up in the Hurtgen were convalescing in the Ardennes.Talk about poor unfortunate bastards - I cannot imagine.Turns out Patton was prophetic working on a plan to pull out of hostilities and wheel 90 degrees.As he had a hunch that's were the Gerries were going to poke thru there as it was too quite.Interestingly ULTRA never picked up on this as it had most everything else.Hitler had put a muzzle on everyone punishable by execution,regarding the attack.Frontline troops were notified as the orders to embark came in.The Reich felt by this time intelligence had been compromised
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 27, 2020, 08:42:47 AM
  The main German attack was north of all that, initially, fortunately that attack was inexpertly handled and ran into two very good US divisions well entrenched.
Are you reffering to the Hurtgen or Ardennes?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2020, 08:54:16 AM
The northern part of the German attack in December with the 5th and 6th SS divisions, as I recollect off hand.  Hitler's top generals were sidelined or dead at that point, other thank Balck who I think was still a corps commander in the east.

That attack sort of fumbled around and got near a fuel dump at Spa but didn't find it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 27, 2020, 09:08:35 AM
Mantueffel was there also(Ardennes).Perhaps Model,not sure about Manstein.Rommel was dead and Guderian sacked and idle.I know they had Sepp Dietrich and that other SS fuck who's name escapes me there.This is one time they actually moved much of the men material from the east as the Soviets were refitting
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2020, 09:11:40 AM
I made my bimonthly trip to Walmart this morning.  They are still short of some items, meats in particular, and yeast, for some reason.  They had some TP, not much.

Everything else looked to be in stock as usual.  There were again more workers than customers by far.  I even used the normal checkout lane, nobody was there.

They have two ladies cleaning the carts.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2020, 11:44:16 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/PrqMwah.jpg)

This is an 80 foot tall tree just outside our unit, a "tulip poplar".  The wife is fascinated.

Below is what I think is a female Cooper's Hawk that likes this perch, taken with a 400 mm lens, it's a bit far away from us.  

(https://i.imgur.com/xIO8aaw.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 27, 2020, 11:45:36 AM
Have to read that book by Vonnegut.He obviously was there and reffered to his old unit as the "hungry and sick".I had to watch this very intersting YT segment with Stephen Ambrose,Kurt Vonnegut & Joseph Heller the 50th Anniversary of V-E Day in 1995 worth it


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWXXpMWqG9Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWXXpMWqG9Q)
Kurt Vonnegut was indeed there.
But he got his statistics about how many died in the Dresden bombing wrong.  That's often the case with eyewitnesses.  They only know what they saw, not the bigger picture.
Vonnegut got his figures from British historian David Irving (in The Destruction of Dresden, 1963), who got them from the East Germans, who used them as propaganda against the West.  Irving later emerged as a Holocaust-denier, and an advocate of the idea that there was no moral difference between the USA and Britain on the one hand and Nazi Germany on the other, so his fidelity to evidence and truth can reasonably be questioned.
Vonnegut even exaggerated Irving's exaggerated figures of "up to 100,000" Germans killed at Dresden, claiming the death of "135,000 Hansels and Gretels" in Slaughterhouse-Five.
Irving's figures didn't just get into Vonnegut's work.  They made it into Air War Against Hitler's Germany, an American Heritage Junior Library selection from 1964 written by serious historian Stephen W. Sears.  I guess it serves as an example of the persistence of bad information.

(https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1329029289l/3158249.jpg)

I only got clued into this about five years ago.  Mike Pearlman, a civilian Ph.D. colleague of mine at the Combat Studies Institute at Fort Leavenworth, was working on a book about the final Soviet offensive, and Dresden was to occupy a chapter of the book.  I made up the maps and cropped and otherwise edited the photos he was going to use in the book.  Unfortunately, he died before finishing it, so there is one needed rebuttal to the Irving-Vonnegut story that will never get out to the general public.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 27, 2020, 11:46:48 AM
Damn those look like roses reach out and clip a few
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 27, 2020, 11:47:46 AM
So you preferred Battleship?
What makes you ask that?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on April 27, 2020, 11:49:56 AM


This is an 80 foot tall tree just outside our unit, a "tulip poplar".  The wife is fascinated.


unit?  are you in prison?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 27, 2020, 11:50:17 AM
Irving's figures didn't just get into Vonnegut's work.  They made it into Air War Against Hitler's Germany, an American Heritage Junior Library selection from 1964 written by serious historian Stephen W. Sears.  I guess it serves as an example of the persistence of bad information.

So are you saying Vonneguts numbers are hi/lo?Watch that Video if you get the chance.Thought I read in the 40-60 K which is still staggering
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 27, 2020, 11:53:06 AM
unit?  are you in prison?
Aren't we all?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 27, 2020, 11:53:29 AM
battle of the Bulge was a bit of an example of what the Germans might have put up w/o the Allies knowing their every move 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 27, 2020, 11:54:46 AM
went to the grocery last night

still no toilet paper

this has been 8 weeks, correct?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2020, 11:55:32 AM
Condo = Unit.  My official address says "Unit 914".  It's a Big Unit, encompassing three of the top floors next to said tree.  Those blooms are all over the place on the ground.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 27, 2020, 12:21:05 PM
So are you saying Vonneguts numbers are hi/lo?Watch that Video if you get the chance.Thought I read in the 40-60 K which is still staggering
The figures recognized by serious historians and modern-day Dresden officialdom are 22,500 to 25,000 dead.  That's still a lot of people, but it's not the 135,000 that Vonnegut claimed.
Dresden was by no means the worst/most horrible example of a German city's destruction.
Also, it was clearly a legitimate military target.  It had military factories going that had not been previously hit.  Also, as Mike Pearlman told me, Dresden, as an intact transportation hub, was a huge threat to Soviet Marshal Konev's strung out axis of advance which ran past Dresden en route to Berlin.  Dresden was not the target of his advance, but it was a serious threat to it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 27, 2020, 01:21:30 PM
I'm disappointed in Stephen Ambrose in that video, MrNubbz.  He's saying things that he should know better about.  Heller and Vonnegut aren't historians.  They can only talk about what they saw, and for the most part that's what they're doing, although Vonnegut overstates what he knows about Dresden.  I think his service in the sorry-ass 106th Infantry Division colored the whole war in his eyes.  And I don't get Heller saying that he never encountered any officers whom he did not respect and yet in Catch-22 the entire chain of command is portrayed as knaves and fools.

But Ambrose should know better than to assert that any bombing of targets other than frontline troops is somehow illegitimate.

Also, Ambrose claims that the Dresden bombing was mostly done by the Brits.  Per the USAF official history, Dresden is one of the few German cities that the Americans bombed more heavily than the Brits did.

These are the bomb tonnages of the seven largest German cities.

                 Population                 Tonnage
City           (1939)        American British    Total
Berlin       4,339,000      22,090     45,517     67,607
Hamburg  1,129,000      17,104     22,583     39,687
Munich        841,000      11,471       7,858     19,329
Cologne      772,000      10,211      34,712     44,923
Leipzig        707,000       5,410        6,206      11,616
Essen          667,000       1,518      36,420      37,938
Dresden      642,000       4,441        2,659        7,100
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2020, 03:12:36 PM
https://www.history.com/news/dresden-bombing-wwii-allies (https://www.history.com/news/dresden-bombing-wwii-allies)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 27, 2020, 04:05:03 PM
I'm disappointed in Stephen Ambrose in that video, MrNubbz. 

The banter and insight was still engaging.But he they were there(not Ambrose) even if they didn't count the bodies.I'm sure they coud have numbers to counter yours.But with the mess that was the war how many people disappeared from anything?I know ambrose made a few mistakes in BoB like on Dike and Blythe and saying Hitler was dead when the screen said april 11th.Of course that could have been on Speiberg/Hanks.Still the descriptions rivaled anything from Dante's Inferno.Hamburg and Tokyo got the same - horrorific
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 27, 2020, 04:12:30 PM
https://www.history.com/news/dresden-bombing-wwii-allies (https://www.history.com/news/dresden-bombing-wwii-allies)
Not sure how accurate those numbers are.It states that the US lost 19,000 KIA in the ardennes.I had read  from The Center of Military History of the US Army there were between 8,500-10,000 KIA with 20,000 missing and a total of 80-85,000 casualties and 610,000 engaged - their numbers
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 27, 2020, 04:39:26 PM
Heller and Vonnegut aren't historians.  They can only talk about what they saw, and for the most part that's what they're doing, although Vonnegut overstates what he knows about Dresden.  I think his service in the sorry-ass 106th Infantry Division colored the whole war in his eyes.  And I don't get Heller saying that he never encountered any officers whom he did not respect and yet in Catch-22 the entire chain of command is portrayed as knaves and fools.

Your wrong calling the whole 106th sorry ass.Many of those guys died fighting.And the whole fucking chain of command put them there with no indication or intelligence of what was Brewing.And Vonnegut and those guys made the right decision when finally cornered to give up as the Reich had like a 5-1 advantage at that time.They had no chance of reinforcement or resupply.Maxwell Taylor was stateside at a wedding(thank fully McAuliffe filled in prolly better"NUTS").Montgomery on December 15th said the Reich couldn't mount another offensive and wasn't on the continent.Many in command were celebrating the Holidays and spread around many in Parris rubbing elbows with Movie Stars.It was a novel Heller wrote,it's his narrative so that's a whole different thing
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2020, 05:24:00 PM
Catch 22 is a brilliant novel IMHO, but isn't meant to say anything about US Army officers in reality, I think.  I view it more as a parody, an SNL "skit", more about US corporations than the Army.

I'd call the 106th green, which they were.  I'm sure they had the same percentage of brave soldiers as any other division, they were just green.  I wonder how many in the Big Red One were "brave" by then.  Might have been fewer.

If ya gotta be one ...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 27, 2020, 05:33:02 PM
Do you mean why die now?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2020, 05:42:36 PM
What's the best way to take up a ceramic floor and replace it? Need to remove all of the "glue" too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2020, 05:43:37 PM
It could be that green troops are more heroic than seasoned battle hardened troops, though the latter will do just about anything for their mates.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2020, 05:43:58 PM
What's the best way to take up a ceramic floor and replace it? Need to remove all of the "glue" too.
Fluorosulfonic acid.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 27, 2020, 05:57:25 PM
Fluorosulfonic acid.
Fancy name of elbow grease?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 27, 2020, 06:08:33 PM
What's the best way to take up a ceramic floor and replace it? Need to remove all of the "glue" too.
Rubber mallet and a spade or mutt would be my guess.Glue - should be thin set mortar,which is portland cement and silicia sand and I forget what else some bonding agents - high jacker
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2020, 06:12:49 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGraAwtXbEQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGraAwtXbEQ)

Greatest movie of all time, well, sort of, not really.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2020, 06:16:44 PM
FSO3H is a "strong acid", stronger than sulfuric, which itself is plenty strong.

One interesting feature of these agents is they pull water out of whatever at a high rate.  You don't want them on your skin.

Oddly enough, hydrofluoric acid is a weak acid but extremely dangerous to use.

I think 40 years ago one could order these things as a "civilian".  I sometimes watch trains got by and see tank cars with 88.000 gallons of H2SO4, it is the most widely produced chemical of them all.  Train wrecks would be bad.  And the next car in line would contain something like Ch3CN, acetonitrile.

Or NaOH solution at 88%.  Nasty stuff.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 27, 2020, 06:35:37 PM
Is that what Cerrano is burning in his bowl?Great flick if your a Tribe Fan."They still stink".Been saying that for over 5 decades - just once before I die.Hell who am I kidding even the Cubs have better mojo.Better call Saul.....or Jobu
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 27, 2020, 07:55:25 PM
Your wrong calling the whole 106th sorry ass.Many of those guys died fighting.And the whole fucking chain of command put them there with no indication or intelligence of what was Brewing.And Vonnegut and those guys made the right decision when finally cornered to give up as the Reich had like a 5-1 advantage at that time.They had no chance of reinforcement or resupply.Maxwell Taylor was stateside at a wedding(thank fully McAuliffe filled in prolly better"NUTS").Montgomery on December 15th said the Reich couldn't mount another offensive and wasn't on the continent.Many in command were celebrating the Holidays and spread around many in Parris rubbing elbows with Movie Stars.It was a novel Heller wrote,it's his narrative so that's a whole different thing
"Sorry ass" was probably the wrong term.  But the division was inadequately trained and prepared for combat.  It was not a combat-effective command.  Shame on the Army for putting a unit like that into a combat zone.
There's a chapter by Maurice Matloff titled "The 90-Division Gamble" in the book Command Decisions, edited by Kent Roberts Greenfield.  That's one of the books that made up the Army's post-war "Green Book" official history (https://history.army.mil/html/bookshelves/collect/usaww2.html).  We entered the war estimating that we would need to field 200 divisions.  Later, that was upped to over 300 divisions.  But in January 1943, that was cut back to 90 divisions, and ultimately we only fielded 89.  That meant that by the time of the Battle of the Bulge, the U.S. Army in the ETO was running out of infantrymen.  Infantrymen took by far the heaviest losses of any specialty in the Army.  In desperation, Eisenhower even asked for black soldiers to give up a pay grade and accept transfer into previously all-white divisions.  It was a very close thing.
We made that decision because the U.S. was also providing the bulk of industrial production for the Allies, the bulk of the airpower, and the bulk of naval and amphibious forces.  All of that drew off manpower that otherwise could have gone into Army infantry divisions.
The result was that we had the smallest percentage of our population in the armed forces of any major combatant, and we suffered the smallest percentage of our population as casualties of any major combatant.
Yes, the Allied high command--with the exception of Patton--was complacent and caught unprepared for the German attack.
As far as Vonnegut and his buddies making the right decision when they surrendered, that's debatable.  It's to be expected from inadequately trained troops in an inadequately trained division, though.  OTOH, and we may be thankful for it, every other U.S. division fought better than the 106th.  There were many small American units in the Ardennes that fought until being wiped out or overrun in the Germans' initial penetration, and it was stopping to eliminate those little outposts of resistance that bit by bit slowed the Germans down and threw them off their timetable.
At the end of the day, it was the greatest pitched battle in the U.S. Army's history, and it was a victory.  Hitler had shot his last bolt, and Germany's eventual defeat was hastened.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 28, 2020, 02:51:18 AM
I don't think it's debatable there were not any readily available troops in/around their(Vonnegot's) position.And if there were it's no guarentee under those conditions on those hilly roads they'd be relieved.Vonnegut wasn't with much more than a platoon,they couldn't even throw stones they were throwing gravel.So he could have been an anonymous name on a marker.But they would have been wiped out none the same and it wouldn't have changed things.Looking back they made the right decision - they got back albeit a detour.SunTzu would rest the blame on those who thought the war won and set them up to fail.There was a shortage of riflemen but they were all being rushed thru basic training.Instead of putting a whole green division in they should have mixed and integrated them into other units.But the whole mindset there was convalescing - supposedly out of harms way.Those poor Hurtgen Vets got another shit sandwich.My hats off to all of them
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2020, 08:05:45 AM
They did of course mix in replacement troops into seasoned divisions.  But the Army had a build up plan to so many divisions they thought would be needed.  At the start, there wasn't a seasoned division, and if you only used replacement troops it wouldn't work to build up to 90 divisions.  

The Russians had over 300 divisions if I recollect right though their divisions were around 10,000 (I think) but with a much smaller "tail".  Russian tanks at that point were awesome.  And numerous.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 28, 2020, 10:03:19 AM
The Russians had over 300 divisions if I recollect right though their divisions were around 10,000 (I think) but with a much smaller "tail".  Russian tanks at that point were awesome.  And numerous.
Russian Tanks and Christie's suspension with a lot of Lend lease never pay back steel.Because of Stalin the Red Army was less concerned of throwing thousands of troops away into the meat grinder.The Western Allies for the most part were prudent.thanfully
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2020, 10:11:53 AM
The KV and JS series Russian tanks did not use the Christie type suspension.  The JS series used late in the war were outstanding.

The Russians obviously had a lot of tanks.  They also had some pretty good fighters later in the war.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2020, 10:24:21 AM
Another nice day here, a bit cloudy, but nice.  Very few restaurants have reopened, and those that have are ta half capacity or less due to distancing.

The hotels appear to be closed, effectively, as there are no conventions or tourists or events.  I see some flights are still operating but I can't imagine getting on a plane right now without critical need.  I chatted with the wife yesterday as to when we might take a short vacation for one/two nights somewhere.  Not soon, I'm not sure anything is open much of anywhere yet.

I can get a condo on the beach at HH with full kitchen etc. but they are closed for now also.  The good news for us is I'm happy to be here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 28, 2020, 12:23:17 PM
my golf course is still open, the other course I play Men's league on thursdays is open

the county north of mine opened restaurants - that's the site of one of the greatest steak houses in the USA

hopefully, I'll be going there soon

I did purchase two blocks of prime NY strip last week, so I have steaks I can grill at home.

the steak house north of me has 60-day dry aged - a little different
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2020, 12:27:25 PM
The butcher shop near me has "dry aged" steaks wrapped in plastic in their meat counter.  To me, they looked like old steaks.  They are expensive.

I'll ask about them next time I'm there.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 28, 2020, 12:58:59 PM
they are less red and more gray, but the taste and texture are a bit better in my opinion
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on April 28, 2020, 01:10:32 PM
I just ran out of some nice pulled pork I bought. Debating driving across town for a good burrito for dinner. 

There's some other takeout I'd like, but I think I'll push that later in the week. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 28, 2020, 02:25:22 PM
A friend of mine is coming in from Minnesota

I got him a block of the NY strips.

We're going to grill a couple tonight and drink a few Budweisers

(https://i.imgur.com/vWrgtK1.jpg)


(https://i.imgur.com/R5QkzWD.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2020, 02:36:25 PM
https://www.seriouseats.com/2013/01/the-food-lab-dry-age-beef-at-home.html (https://www.seriouseats.com/2013/01/the-food-lab-dry-age-beef-at-home.html)



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 28, 2020, 03:30:45 PM
hence, expensive

but, I feel the tenderness and flavor are worth it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 28, 2020, 03:40:09 PM
A steak that smells like cheese doesn't sound all that appealing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 28, 2020, 03:43:00 PM
Oh no?  What about cheese that smells like feet?

Or whisky that smells like band-aids?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 28, 2020, 03:43:09 PM
doesn't smell funky after grilling
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2020, 04:17:17 PM
"We" consume some very odd things in life.  Seiche is my strangest thing, though I've also dined on escargot (often) and foie gras, however you spell it.  I have learned that pate' is not foie gras, or something like that.  I get them confused.

Cheese is basically spoiled milk.  Wine is basically spoiled grape juice.  Champagne is really bad wine with the taste covered up with bubbles.  Beer is, well, also a bit odd.

I read you can eat acorns if you soak them in caustic for a while.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 28, 2020, 04:27:21 PM
Euell  Gibbons???
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 28, 2020, 04:46:56 PM
Hell, if you want to make a Bavarian style pretzel, you need lye.

So drop some dough in poison, and eventually you get something amazing out.

FYI putting mustard on pretzels is an American thing, not a Bavarian thing. They put obatzda on pretzels in Munich. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 28, 2020, 04:47:59 PM
Obatzda is a Bavarian cheese delicacy. It is prepared by mixing two thirds aged soft cheese, usually Camembert and one third butter. Sweet or hot paprika powder, salt and pepper are the traditional seasonings, as well as a small amount of beer.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 28, 2020, 04:58:38 PM
Cheese is basically spoiled milk.  Wine is basically spoiled grape juice.  Champagne is really bad wine with the taste covered up with bubbles.  Beer is, well, also a bit odd.Watch it there Buster you are sounding earily similar to those revenuers explaining to us why imbibing isn't a righteous pursuit.So knock it off with those negative waves

I read you can eat acorns if you soak them in caustic for a while.Good to know as it appears we will be substituting these for meat consumption in the not to distant futuer
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 28, 2020, 04:59:00 PM
So the specifically Bavarian thing to do, is to douse it in French cheese.  Gotcha.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 28, 2020, 05:06:41 PM
Hell, if you want to make a Bavarian style pretzel, you need lye.
Never figure out how the Scandanavians decided Lutefisk and the process was  a good idea.Unless it was so revolting even carnivores sniffing around wouldn't chance it.Leaving more for Ole & Sven
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 28, 2020, 05:23:21 PM
Lutefisk is one of the only things I won't eat

and I get plenty of chances being a Missouri Synod Lutheran that enjoys Octoberfest 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 28, 2020, 05:27:05 PM
Lutefisk is one of the only things I won't eat

and I get plenty of chances being a Missouri Synod Lutheran that enjoys Octoberfest
I grew up ELCA... But then...


(https://i.imgur.com/7HRgurD.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 28, 2020, 05:31:27 PM
Guilt has been a strong force in my life from early on
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 28, 2020, 05:35:54 PM
Lutefisk is one of the only things I won't eat

and I get plenty of chances being a Missouri Synod Lutheran that enjoys Octoberfest
Missouri Synod?Like the Baptists they don't recognize the Pope.....or each other in the Liquor Store
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 28, 2020, 05:36:09 PM
Hell, if you want to make a Bavarian style pretzel, you need lye.

So drop some dough in poison, and eventually you get something amazing out.

FYI putting mustard on pretzels is an American thing, not a Bavarian thing. They put obatzda on pretzels in Munich.
We shared pretzel with mustard with our Munich friends about 2 months ago in Florida. It was their house and their idea. The brought the mustard with them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2020, 05:36:17 PM
Guilt has been a strong force in my life from early on
Me too, and I've always felt really bad about that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 28, 2020, 05:37:34 PM
I grew up ELCA... But then...


(https://i.imgur.com/7HRgurD.png)
I grew up ELCA too but then........I grew up ELCA too.Classic MPFC hopefully we won't get to the part where they're pulling the cart yelling "bring out your dead,bring out your dead"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 28, 2020, 05:54:30 PM
Oddly my sister is an ELCA pastor.

I don't know if she's the "black sheep" of the family because she's so unlike me and my other siblings, or if there's just three black sheep and she's the lone white one...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 28, 2020, 05:59:12 PM
We shared pretzel with mustard with our Munich friends about 2 months ago in Florida. It was their house and their idea. The brought the mustard with them.
I dunno, I was instructed in this by a giant gregarious man named Andreas, who was born and raised in Munich, while seated at a table at the Weihenstephan brewery in Freising, eating pretzels with obatzda. 


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 28, 2020, 06:04:22 PM
I dunno, I was instructed in this by a giant gregarious man named Andreas, who was born and raised in Munich, while seated at a table at the Weihenstephan brewery in Freising, eating pretzels with obatzda.



Some Germans insist you don't ever put lemon in a hefeweizen.  Others smile happily as they put lemon in their hefeweizen.  Could be one of those things where even within a relatively small region, there are varying ways of doing things.

I like mustard well enough, but put me in the camp with dousing a Bavarian pretzel in French cheese.  Sounds pretty freaking great to me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 28, 2020, 06:07:39 PM
Bear in mind I'm not anti-mustard on a pretzel...

Just given the chance, I'll do obatzda.

Literally I've never seen obatzda outside of Munich, save making it myself, except for one place... Which happens to be the brewery a couple miles from my house. https://www.gamecraftbrewing.com/ (https://www.gamecraftbrewing.com/)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 28, 2020, 06:14:22 PM
Bear in mind I'm not anti-mustard on a pretzel...

Just given the chance, I'll do obatzda.

Literally I've never seen obatzda outside of Munich, save making it myself, except for one place... Which happens to be the brewery a couple miles from my house. https://www.gamecraftbrewing.com/ (https://www.gamecraftbrewing.com/)


I don't believe you. You appear to be a full-scale anti-mustite.  And this aggression will not stand.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 28, 2020, 07:00:41 PM
Some Germans insist you don't ever put lemon in a hefeweizen.  Others smile happily as they put lemon in their hefeweizen.  Could be one of those things where even within a relatively small region, there are varying ways of doing things.
Could be they're smashed from drinking all week and putting alot of things in the wrong places
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 28, 2020, 07:06:35 PM
Oddly my sister is an ELCA pastor.

I don't know if she's the "black sheep" of the family because she's so unlike me and my other siblings, or if there's just three black sheep and she's the lone white one...
HA!We had wominz in the pulpit too - back when I attended
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on April 28, 2020, 11:59:21 PM
Mustard rules.   My kids turn down cash money to try any number of varieties.   I will break them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on April 29, 2020, 12:45:16 AM
Mustard rules.  My kids turn down cash money to try any number of varieties.  I will break them.
If you have lusty monk, does one need more varieties?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 29, 2020, 02:02:06 AM
I do mustard on the pretzel, but cheese sauce as a change-up from time to time.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 29, 2020, 02:03:15 AM
For any old fogies that can remember back that far, could you compare a RB from the last 20-25 years with Eric Metcalf when he was at Texas?  I remember him on the Browns, but he was just a 3rd-down guy.  Who would you say he was similar to while in college?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 29, 2020, 08:26:27 AM
I'm going to dig in to the mustard thing. I like it with pretzels, for sure.

We were supposed to go to Munich to visit them this year, but Oktoberfest was cancelled. So, maybe next year we can go. 

Right now we're hoping they will be allowed to come to Florida for this winter. I mean, they do own a home and pay taxes on it, so they should be able to come, no?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 29, 2020, 09:17:53 AM
I do mustard on the pretzel, but cheese sauce as a change-up from time to time. 
To be clear, obatzda doesn't resemble "cheese sauce".

That said, one thing I REALLY have a taste for is Portillo's cheese sauce on their fries. I'm trying to find a homemade version of the recipe... It would probably go great on nachos, or a pretzel, or frankly anything... We're cooking filet on Saturday and maybe some cheese sauce on a baked potato would be nice with that...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on April 29, 2020, 11:19:37 AM
I don't do mustard on anything. Ugh

Pretzels are always dipped in some kind of cheese sauce
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 29, 2020, 11:28:40 AM
For any old fogies that can remember back that far, could you compare a RB from the last 20-25 years with Eric Metcalf when he was at Texas?  I remember him on the Browns, but he was just a 3rd-down guy.  Who would you say he was similar to while in college?
I'll have to think about it, OAM.  I sure loved watching him play at the time.  

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 29, 2020, 01:40:56 PM
I don't do mustard on anything. Ugh

Pretzels are always dipped in some kind of cheese sauce
The French have a zillion kinds of mustard and many of them are very very very unlike our "French's" mustard.


https://us.maille.com/

T (https://us.maille.com/)his outfit has a shop in Paris that is akin to a museum, the walls are covered with different kinds of mustards.

The wife will put mustard on steak at times, a practice I do not endorse.  Their "standard" mustard is quite good and I find it at Kroger here.  The one below is $43, 4.4 oz.


(https://i.imgur.com/kMyHzXG.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 29, 2020, 01:41:56 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/pQlc1jg.png) Makes a nice gist.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 29, 2020, 01:50:49 PM
I'll have to think about it, OAM.  I sure loved watching him play at the time. 


Little Joe Washington???  5'9"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 29, 2020, 02:36:10 PM
Little Joe Washington???  5'9"
Yeah that's not a bad comparison.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 29, 2020, 03:47:25 PM
except it's a Sooner
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 29, 2020, 03:59:30 PM
Well Metcalf was clearly a much better person overall, for obvious reasons!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 29, 2020, 06:02:06 PM
For any old fogies that can remember back that far, could you compare a RB from the last 20-25 years with Eric Metcalf when he was at Texas?  I remember him on the Browns, but he was just a 3rd-down guy.  Who would you say he was similar to while in college?
He wasn't just a 3rd down guy.Think he had a punt return and KO go for TDs vs the Squeelers in like '93 - was enjoying that.Belichick kept running him up the middle.Belichick got out of his moron mode after he left C-Town
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on April 29, 2020, 08:19:07 PM
Metcalf was fun to watch.  I saw a guy recently that reminded me of him, will need to think about who that was.

He had moves.   
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 29, 2020, 10:38:52 PM
He wasn't just a 3rd down guy.Think he had a punt return and KO go for TDs vs the Squeelers in like '93 - was enjoying that.Belichick kept running him up the middle.Belichick got out of his moron mode after he left C-Town
you mean he got out of the offensive coaching mode?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 29, 2020, 11:03:10 PM
He was very staid in his ways even if they were not working.He just keep trying the same thing convinced of it's brilliance someone had to be leaving the team dowm.He was running "Metcalf up the middle " so many times it became a joke even with Leroy Hoard and Kevin Mack on the roster.Metcalf in space was one of the most exciting guys to watch.He would snap ankles juking guys
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 29, 2020, 11:03:24 PM
To be clear, obatzda doesn't resemble "cheese sauce".

That said, one thing I REALLY have a taste for is Portillo's cheese sauce on their fries. I'm trying to find a homemade version of the recipe... It would probably go great on nachos, or a pretzel, or frankly anything... We're cooking filet on Saturday and maybe some cheese sauce on a baked potato would be nice with that...
I just got Portillos drive-thru the other day.  They opened one in the west valley, finally.  I could eat the beef on croissant with cheese sauce all day.  I got 2 of them and fries.  

Idk what obatzda is or ever heard of it.  I was just sharing what I did with a big pretzel.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 29, 2020, 11:04:38 PM
He wasn't just a 3rd down guy.Think he had a punt return and KO go for TDs vs the Squeelers in like '93 - was enjoying that.Belichick kept running him up the middle.Belichick got out of his moron mode after he left C-Town
Well yes, obviously a returner and all that.  I just meant he was never the main RB for those Browns teams.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 30, 2020, 12:47:58 AM
Well Metcalf was clearly a much better person overall, for obvious reasons!
I didn't see Metcalf play, so I can't compare them as running backs.
But if Eric Metcalf is clearly a much better person than Joe Washington, he's a fine person indeed.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 30, 2020, 12:49:11 AM
The French have a zillion kinds of mustard and many of them are very very very unlike our "French's" mustard.


https://us.maille.com/

T (https://us.maille.com/)his outfit has a shop in Paris that is akin to a museum, the walls are covered with different kinds of mustards.

The wife will put mustard on steak at times, a practice I do not endorse.  Their "standard" mustard is quite good and I find it at Kroger here.  The one below is $43, 4.4 oz.


(https://i.imgur.com/kMyHzXG.png)
I've never had mustard on a steak, but I can see it.
What's worse, mustard on a steak or ketchup on a hot dog?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 30, 2020, 07:43:08 AM
Ketchup on a hot dog is far worse.  I have tried some kinds of mustard on steak, and really if it's mediocre steak, it's about the same as Heinz 57 in concept.

I grill those Eckrich pork sausages on occasion and she brings out the mustard arsenal.  She likes them, of course they are fatty as H.

She doesn't like the onions I cook with them though, she wants onions cooked to smithereens, and steak blu rare, which is super rare.  I'll do one of those strips tonight and cut her a piece first and barely cook it.  I still marvel how hot that electric grill gets, but I guess it's akin to the broiler in the oven.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 30, 2020, 08:57:36 AM
Blue Rare - no thanx
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 30, 2020, 09:03:49 AM
I didn't see Metcalf play, so I can't compare them as running backs.
But if Eric Metcalf is clearly a much better person than Joe Washington, he's a fine person indeed.
JW was a fun one to watch also.Shame he ripped up his knee,I used to be a Colts Fan also before they were uprooted from their rightful home.Well they drafted him,they had a decent team in the late '70s with Bert Jones under center and a very good D-Line as I recall
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 30, 2020, 09:25:22 AM
I've never had mustard on a steak, but I can see it.
What's worse, mustard on a steak or ketchup on a hot dog?
Shut your mouth, that's blasphemy!

Sincerely,
Chicago-raised bwarbiany
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 30, 2020, 09:54:48 AM
ketchup on anything is worse than mustard on anything
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 30, 2020, 09:55:49 AM
Blue Rare - no thanx
I had an Aunt that would tell the water.... knock off it's horns and wipe it's ass
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 30, 2020, 10:01:46 AM
I had an Aunt that would tell the water.... knock off it's horns and wipe it's ass
Classy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 30, 2020, 10:03:30 AM
classy wasn't what she was going for
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 30, 2020, 10:24:22 AM
I can eat normal rare.  Blu rare is a cold raw center.  I do let the steaks come up to near RT before cooking, I have found that is perhaps the single most important step in cooking a steak.  I should try it with an iron skillet on the new stove sometime.

I'm concerned about the spatter mostly.  Keep it outside.  I know it works well.

Maillard reaction is the chemical reaction which occurs between amino acids and reducing sugars in the presence of heat that results the browning of food while forming new aromas and flavors.


(https://i.imgur.com/tcDT1nT.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 30, 2020, 10:33:11 AM
ketchup on anything is worse than mustard on anything
I like to mix ketchup and mayonnaise and eat it on my Freedom Fries.

But other than that, I don't eat ketchup on anything.  My brother will eat it on his scrambled eggs which really grosses me out-- besides, that's what salsa is for.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 30, 2020, 10:34:58 AM
Something I am chuckling at is photos of beaches somewhere with people apparently crowded together, an effect one can create by using a longer telephoto lens and distance compression.  Governors see this and think they should close the beach when it could well be folks are very spread out.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on April 30, 2020, 10:41:43 AM
I like to mix ketchup and mayonnaise and eat it on my Freedom Fries.

But other than that, I don't eat ketchup on anything.  My brother will eat it on his scrambled eggs which really grosses me out-- besides, that's what salsa is for.
Im a big ketchup and scrambled egg guy with a little hot sauce mixed in

I also like ketchup and most beef except brisket which shouldnt need any sauce if prepared right

hell Ive even been known to put ketchup on my baked potato but it takes about 6 beers before that happens
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 30, 2020, 10:42:58 AM
I like the green sauce on eggs if salsa is not handy.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 30, 2020, 10:52:10 AM
I like to mix ketchup and mayonnaise and eat it on my Freedom Fries.

But other than that, I don't eat ketchup on anything.  My brother will eat it on his scrambled eggs which really grosses me out-- besides, that's what salsa is for.
you might want to try salsa and mayo on your freedom fries

ketchup is terrible

little kids like it cause it's full on sugar
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 30, 2020, 10:52:44 AM
Im a big ketchup and scrambled egg guy with a little hot sauce mixed in

I also like ketchup and most beef except brisket which shouldnt need any sauce if prepared right

hell Ive even been known to put ketchup on my baked potato but it takes about 6 beers before that happens
do you accidentally spill many things after 6 beers?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on April 30, 2020, 11:36:47 AM
ketchup on anything is worse than mustard on anything
French fries?  Onion rings?
I agree with the comments that ketchup on a hot dog is worse than mustard on a steak.  But I'm not putting mustard on my fries.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 30, 2020, 12:20:18 PM
well, I'm sure as hell not putting ketchup on fries or onion rings

mustard might not be great on onion rings, but it would be much better than ketchup
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 30, 2020, 12:22:59 PM
Cincy,

Do you open your red wine to allow it to breathe for a while?

I'm sure my have opinions, thought I'd ask the chemist about introducing oxygen
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 30, 2020, 12:49:08 PM
Ah, breathing wine, that is a complex topic in reality.  The short opinion of mine is most wines do not need to breathe, or be decanted.  

The exceptions are very old wines and rather expensive wines that are drunk too early.  

I've been buying this Kirkland branded Napa Oakville wine, it's $20, and on opening it's a bit "tight".  The quick solution is to pour it into wine glasses and let it sit a few minutes, or swirl it.  Both work pretty well.  Just letting the corkless bottle sit around if not very effective.  If you want to "breathe" a wine, pour it into a decanter.

One technique some use is to pour the wine into a clean dry 2-L Coke bottle and shake it to aerate it.  Incidentally, I personally do no like aerators.  They should work, but I don't think they are very effective, just personal opinion.

There are complex tannins in wine, and oxygen serves to polymerize those tannins which tend to soften the taste of wine.  Some will call tannic wines as being "dry", but this is an incorrect term used that way.

Dry simply means no residual sugar.

https://www.reversewinesnob.com/kirkland-signature-series-oakville-cabernet-sauvignon (https://www.reversewinesnob.com/kirkland-signature-series-oakville-cabernet-sauvignon)

(https://i.imgur.com/ZDhn5p3.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on April 30, 2020, 12:59:43 PM
ketchup on anything is worse than mustard on anything
Absolutely WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!! Mustard ruins everything. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 30, 2020, 01:12:59 PM
There are complex tannins in wine, and oxygen serves to polymerize those tannins which tend to soften the taste of wine.  Some will call tannic wines as being "dry", but this is an incorrect term used that way.

Dry simply means no residual sugar.
I'll have to see if we get that Cab at our Costco. The Costco box wine that you guys keep talking about apparently isn't sold here.

Agree on dry = low residual sugar. It's the antonym to sweet.

Tannins, OTOH, are astringent. They give you a "drying" sensation on the tongue but that's a completely different thing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 30, 2020, 01:17:14 PM
Our Costco now has pinot grigio in boxes (Kirkland brand).  I have not tried, not my favorite varietal.

I'm getting tired of the cab in a box.  It's pleasant, yes, but gets boring after 20 or 30 boxes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 30, 2020, 01:18:19 PM
My wine guys and me would ponder such questions back in the day as "What wines do you drink on a Tuesday night if you are a billionaire?"

Do you drink thousand dollar Bordeauxs just because you can?  Does that get boring?

Huh.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on April 30, 2020, 01:31:40 PM
Cincy,

Do you open your red wine to allow it to breathe for a while?

I'm sure my have opinions, thought I'd ask the chemist about introducing oxygen
When I open a bottle of wine it gets one breath thats enough
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 30, 2020, 01:49:21 PM
thanks for the tip

just read an article and was wondering


yes, yes, I do read things from time to time, not novels, but I read
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 30, 2020, 02:21:13 PM
Well, I'm not drinking any more.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 30, 2020, 03:00:20 PM
 ketchup on a hot dog is worse than mustard on a steak.  
(https://i.imgur.com/XWr3fFt.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 30, 2020, 03:02:05 PM
I'm getting tired of the cab in a box.  It's pleasant, yes, but gets boring after 20 or 30 boxes.
From what you remember
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 30, 2020, 03:03:17 PM
Absolutely WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!! Mustard ruins everything.
Not brats
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 30, 2020, 03:10:08 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/XWr3fFt.png)
as long as there's mustard on the dog and ketchup on the steak
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on April 30, 2020, 03:45:59 PM
well, I'm sure as hell not putting ketchup on fries or onion rings

mustard might not be great on onion rings, but it would be much better than ketchup
If you don't put ketchup on fries or onion rings, what ARE you supposed to put on them?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on April 30, 2020, 04:57:22 PM
salt and pepper

perhaps some cheese sauce

hot sauce

most things besides ketchup
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on April 30, 2020, 05:00:39 PM
Some put vinegar or mayo on fries ...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 30, 2020, 05:05:07 PM
Fries dipped in chile con queso are muy delicioso.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on April 30, 2020, 06:02:15 PM
Absolutely WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!! Mustard ruins everything.
The incorrectness of this is powerful.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on April 30, 2020, 06:07:15 PM
The incorrectness of this is powerful.
Mustard's a strong flavor, I can understand folks that don't like it.  I really hated it as a kid, it wasn't until probably college that I had it on a cheeseburger and understood its true glory.

And mustard is really, REALLY fantastic when used in conjunction with grilling, BBQing, and braising meats.  Braised leg of lamb with mustard as a base of the rub, is awesome.  I also use mustard as the base on my BBQ pork spare ribs, before tossing on the dry rub.

In short, mustard is glorious.

But I still understand people that get overwhelmed by its strong flavor.  A little can go a long way.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on April 30, 2020, 08:37:08 PM
Some put vinegar or mayo on fries ...
Malt Vinegar up in Ontario - pretty good combination
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 30, 2020, 08:50:47 PM
Mustard works on all hotdogs/sausages/brats/etc.  Not a lot, just a little.  That's all you need.

If fries are good, they don't need ketchup.  Perfectly-cooked crinkle-cut fries are the best - you need that perfect crispy-to-potato ratio.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 01, 2020, 08:18:21 AM
The fries in France and Belgium taste like potatoes, I kid you not.  Here they taste like grease and salt, I almost never find good fries in the States.  I can find good onion rings, and when good, they need only salt.  I put ketchup on fries here to give them some kind of flavor.

Usually, I just avoid them if possible.  I think here they often are made out of polydimethylbatshoot.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 01, 2020, 08:59:24 AM
I know several places here in town that make fries that taste like they do in Belgium/France.  They are all Belgian beer halls and French restaurants, though, so...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 01, 2020, 09:04:18 AM
Yeah, they exist, at higher end places, but I'm not usually disposed to fine at a higher end place and order fries generally speaking.

As you know, a basic common French bistro has great fries worth eating for not much money with lunch.  Our seem to be frozen tasteless greasy salty crap.

Can I say crap around here?

Sorry.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 01, 2020, 09:19:07 AM
Gonna report you to the mods.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 01, 2020, 09:23:32 AM
I was chatting with the wife last night about the tiny restaurant we found in the tiny village where our daughter lives.  We went there for lunch 4-5 times and really enjoyed it.  The food was basic of course, but fresh and well done, the lady chef said she got up at 5 AM every day to buy what she needed from a market that was not closeby.

That model doesn't work in the US obviously.  I guess she made enough to live on, we didn't go for dinner, maybe she got busy then, but not at lunch.  She had one server.

They always had a roaring fire going and it was cold so that was great.  The bistro model doesn't work here.

Some places get close.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 01, 2020, 11:57:24 AM
About a week ago I got groceries, including I was certain a package of ground beef.  I made spaghetti and looked all over for it, never found it.  Meanwhile, a strange smell like rotting cabbage started permeating our kitchen.  The wife hates odors, and was pulling everything out of the fridge looking for something gone rotten.

She finally found the ground beef, under a bag of onions I had bought, NOT in the fridge.  Bummer.  It's probably not good to eat now, I told her.  It was green, literally.

The spaghetti was good anyway I thought.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on May 01, 2020, 03:40:03 PM
Not brats
A brat needs a covering of grilled onions and peppers and nothing else
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 01, 2020, 09:11:11 PM
kraut if you are out of grilled onions and peppers
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2020, 08:43:22 AM
A good mett with grilled onion/peppers, and maybe kraut on the side for those who want, and mustards on the side if some want ...

I like to grill the sausages of whatever ilk in the Creuset on the stove with onions and peppers and potatoes and carrots ...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 02, 2020, 08:46:37 AM
A brat needs a covering of grilled onions and peppers and nothing else
Raw onions and Stadium mustard but to each their own.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 02, 2020, 09:26:43 AM
I was instructed you simmer the brats first.  NOT BOIL, simmer.

Can't remember which crotchety old badgerfan scolded me on that one though...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 02, 2020, 09:50:15 AM
Raw onions and Stadium mustard but to each their own.
many ways to enjoy a good brat, sausage, all beef dog or whatever

grilled, simmered, boiled in beer

some days I prefer kraut, some sauteed onions and peppers, some raw onions and peppers
most days I like to include a type of cheese
there can be a favorite or standard, but variety is the spice of life
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on May 02, 2020, 10:09:18 AM
When you boil, you virtually guarantee blistering the casing, even before you get to the grill and that's not something you want. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2020, 12:30:49 PM
I am musing about how many "good programs" have been "down" for a while now, well below their historical trends (call it over the past 40 years or so).  Aside from Blue Bloods, we have programs like FSU and Miami which were fantastic not so long ago.  And the BBs include Texas/Nebraska/USC well off their more traditional status.  Then there is Tennessee of course, and Arkansas (ugh).  UCLA could be included.  Iowa and Michigan don't really "qualify" for this dubious group IMHO.

Who else is down pretty far?  I guess we could include Rutger in a way.

At the same time, who is "up"?  Clemson is up clearly.  LSU maybe kinda.  OSU and Bama just are there year after year.

Is the game more competitive now?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 02, 2020, 01:29:42 PM
I don't consider UCLA to be a blueblood.  In the most recent edition (2017) of Stewart Mandel's ranking system, UCLA was amongst the Barons, and they have done nothing worthwhile since then.  They may be headed down to join the Knights--Arizona State, Arkansas, Iowa, Kansas State, et. al.

I wonder how many more underperforming years it would take for USC to drop down to Baron status.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2020, 01:58:24 PM
UCLA is just an example of what has been a pretty solid program that has disappeared.  One might look at status right now versus what has been typical since say 1970:

Michigan -
Ohio State +
USC ---
Texas --
Oklahoma o
ND o
Nebraska --

That's qualitative.  Then there are programs that have some good runs but not in the category:

Clemson +++
FSU --
Miami ---
Florida o
Georgia o
LSU +
Arkansas ---------
Missouri ---
Colorado ---
Wisconsin +
Iowa -
Penn State o

That is very qualitative of course, but I see more minuses than pluses.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 02, 2020, 02:45:42 PM
Idk, looking at the top programs in the last 20 years, it simply looks like the south and west are taking over.  I think we may have hit the population tipping point that we've discussed on here before, a few years back. 

There's still more people in the north, but it may have ticked past a certain point that it no longer matters. 
Look at the best P5 programs by win% the last 20 years:
1. Ohio St
2. Oklahoma
3. LSU
4. Georgia
5. Alabama
6. Clemson
7. Oregon
8. TCU
9. USC
10. Wisconsin
11. Florida
12. Texas
13. Virginia Tech
14. FSU
15. Auburn
.
19. Miami
20. Michigan
21. Penn St
26. Nebraska
27. Notre Dame
33. Tennessee
------------------------
Look at the same thing, just 10 years before (so a 10-year overlap):
1. Florida
2. Ohio St
3. Nebraska
4. FSU
5. Miami
6. Texas
7. Tennessee
8. Michigan
9. Virginia Tech
10. Penn St
11. Georgia
12. Oklahoma
13. USC
14. Auburn
15. Kansas St
.
16. Oregon
18. Wisconsin
19. Notre Dame
20. LSU
22. Alabama
23. Clemson
.
While the Florida schools have fallen off some, Nebraska and Tennessee have fallen off a cliff.  Michigan and Penn St have fallen some, and all of them have been replaced by Wisconsin, Oregon, Alabama, LSU, and Clemson. 
ND wasn't good enough to fall off a cliff

In the 10 years before this (with overlap), LSU, Oregon, and Wisconsin were irrelevant.  Washington was 9th and they've fallen off way worse than even Tennessee has.  USC didn't matter during that stretch, and Texas and OU were outside the top 15 as well. 

But the former staples Penn St, Michigan, Tennessee, and Nebraska are basically gone.  As they hop from HC to HC, the deeper they fall and will have to climb out.  The harder it will be to find that necessarily great HC, who'll be getting offers from better programs.  Alabama was 10th in this 3rd rolling era, so they swooned and came back stronger than ever before.  Will one of these listed do the same?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2020, 02:57:47 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/jMXtmfu.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/ceB0mht.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2020, 02:58:58 PM
I snapped those today from our roof.  I was shooting at 400 mm so there is some camera movement.  This one might be better.

(https://i.imgur.com/3iQJE4w.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 02, 2020, 03:00:52 PM
I was instructed you simmer the brats first.  NOT BOIL, simmer.

Can't remember which crotchety old badgerfan scolded me on that one though...
Get a good med,med-high fire going oil the casings - indirect(top down).Depends usually 20 minutes flipping once as to NOT TEAR the casings.Don't need any grill marks as they are going into a bun or kaiser roll,I've lightly steamed the rolls to soften them up.But Badge's way is fine if ya wanna braise method with onions/peppers etc
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on May 02, 2020, 03:59:02 PM
Sheboygan rolls!  I could go for some good brat buns this weekend. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 02, 2020, 05:15:04 PM
UCLA is just an example of what has been a pretty solid program that has disappeared.  One might look at status right now versus what has been typical since say 1970:

Michigan -
Ohio State +
USC ---
Texas --
Oklahoma o
ND o
Nebraska --

That's qualitative.  Then there are programs that have some good runs but not in the category:

Clemson +++
FSU --
Miami ---
Florida o
Georgia o
LSU +
Arkansas ---------
Missouri ---
Colorado ---
Wisconsin +
Iowa -
Penn State o

That is very qualitative of course, but I see more minuses than pluses.
What does "o" mean?  Stays the same?
If so, Oklahoma is not the same as it was in 1970.  In 1970, OU was wrapping up a reasonably crappy decade that only featured two major bowl games (lost to Bama and beat Tennessee) and in which the Sooners only won or tied for 3 conference championships and went 6-4 against Nebraska (maybe the best thing about the '60s), 1-9 vs. Texas.  1971 witnessed a turnaround with the 35-31 loss in the GOTC to #1 and defending national champ Nebraska and a Sugar Bowl win over Auburn.  Then a Sugar Bowl win over Penn State.  Then probation for two years.  Then an Orange Bowl win over Michigan for the MNC.  Then a Fiesta Bowl win over Wyoming.  Then an Orange Bowl loss to Arkansas.  Then an Orange Bowl win over Nebraska.  Then an Orange Bowl win over FSU in 1979 to close out the 1970s.  8 straight ('72-79) conference championships won or tied for.  A 7-2 record vs. Nebraska and a 6-2-1 record vs. Texas.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 02, 2020, 05:19:11 PM
Nice pics of the Thunderbirds and Blue Angels, CD.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2020, 05:35:49 PM
It means they are about as good as they have been over the past 40 years.  Oklahoma has been very good most of that time and are so today, hence o.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 02, 2020, 06:33:16 PM
If you were saying that Oklahoma is about as good as it was in the 1970s, I'd disagree slightly (as they were either the best or 2nd-best--after Bama--team in all the land during that decade, and they're not that now).  But they weren't nearly as good in 1970 as they are now.  The Sooners lost 41-9 to Texas in 1970, for the 13th time in the last 14 years, had lost to Nebraska, and finished 7-4-1 after tying Bama in the Bluebonnet Bowl.  That was actually an improvement from 1969, in which they went 6-4, losing to Texas, losing 44-14 to Nebraska, and didn't go bowling.  If anything, they seemed like a former King that had fallen to Duke status.

That is not where they are now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2020, 06:46:04 PM
I'm saying they are about as good as they have been over the past 50 years or so, e.g., quite good.  They aren't down.

Consider the entire 50 years.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 02, 2020, 06:47:57 PM
OK.  "Uncle."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2020, 06:56:36 PM
If you think they merit a + or -, OK with me, it was top of mind thinking about how many preeiminent programs are down, and not many are up.

OU IMHO has not fallen off some cliff like say USC/Texas/Nebraska, the BBs of yore.  Neither has ND.  Why are so many down and so few up?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CatsbyAZ on May 02, 2020, 07:32:30 PM
https://twitter.com/NDFootball/status/1256682373195980801
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 02, 2020, 09:21:05 PM
Is that the Sugar Bowl where LSU rearranged their teeth?  I doubt it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 03, 2020, 01:15:26 AM
If you think they merit a + or -, OK with me, it was top of mind thinking about how many preeiminent programs are down, and not many are up.

OU IMHO has not fallen off some cliff like say USC/Texas/Nebraska, the BBs of yore.  Neither has ND.  Why are so many down and so few up?
Oh, I'd give 'em half a plus if you were using that fine of a metric.  Make 1980 the start point and I'd give 'em a quarter of a minus.
I was just having trouble letting go of the idea that my conviction that you weren't aware of OU's real status in 1979 mattered a hill of beans.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2020, 02:49:57 PM
So am I correct that more upper level programs have sunk than lower level programs have excelled?  Maybe for the latter they are up and down, like Stanford for a while was formidable.  No one weaker program has really stayed near the top unless you include Clemson.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 03, 2020, 03:07:42 PM
Oregon made a nice run a few years ago.  They've faded back in the direction of their historical norm, though.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2020, 03:25:05 PM
Yeah, Oregon, Stanford, Washington, Wake Forest sort of, Minnesota perhaps, even Florida had a bit of an insurgence.

I think it's these lesser programs having the odd good 3-4 year period but not sustaining.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 03, 2020, 03:25:50 PM
So am I correct that more upper level programs have sunk than lower level programs have excelled?  Maybe for the latter they are up and down, like Stanford for a while was formidable.  No one weaker program has really stayed near the top unless you include Clemson.


Well think about it.  There aren't just the near-helmet programs around to improve.  There's EVERYONE else.  UCF saw its program peak to an all-time high recently.  TCU and Utah have peaked, just by way of movin' on up, like the Jeffersons, to P5 territory.  We've had more FCS teams beating FBS teams than ever before.  Iowa State is peaking, Indiana has risen - neither to the height of the sport, but to personal bests, over a few-year span.  Baylor matters.  Kentucky matters.  Minnesota just had a historic (for them) peak.  Northwestern has a 9-10 win season every 2nd or 3rd year.  

To put it in school grade terms, while many historically A+ programs have earned a B lately, it's not about B level programs replacing them, it's that many programs are moving from D to C, or C up to B.  It's just more depth.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 03, 2020, 07:07:13 PM
Wow, my wife just butchered my haircut... 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2020, 07:11:30 PM
So, the Blue Bloods may be slipping, but nobody really is taking their place (other than perhaps Clemson).  The other teams are up and down like Baylor or TCU.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 03, 2020, 07:25:10 PM
it's tough to be a blue blood
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 03, 2020, 08:53:16 PM
Wow, my wife just butchered my haircut...
Pictures or it didn't happen,who knows in some mosh pits they may pony up big money for that look
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 04, 2020, 09:31:32 AM
Wow, my wife just butchered my haircut...
Now a smart husband would say "great job honey"

cause he knows she will probably be cutting his hair again
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 04, 2020, 09:35:58 AM
The wife will trim the back of my neck.  I think that is simple, and I can't see it anyway.  I'm getting quite shaggy now and I had a hair cut just before this happened.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on May 04, 2020, 10:01:46 AM
The wife will trim the back of my neck.  I think that is simple, and I can't see it anyway.  I'm getting quite shaggy now and I had a hair cut just before this happened.



I get my hair cut about once a month. I was just about due when all this happened. My wife threatened to get some clippers and cut my hair. Thank goodness she couldn't find any available on Amazon. I keep my hair really short, so I don't even need a comb. Well I have had to get a comb. This goes much longer, I am going to learn whether my grey hair curls as much as my black hair did (I have heard it can be different). It is definitely very wavy now, this goes on much longer I may end up with the afro I wore during my younger days. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 04, 2020, 10:03:52 AM
My very white hair is wavier than it was when I was young and had moderately long hair, about like it is now. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 04, 2020, 10:08:28 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/eQxfRfS.jpg)

Around 1977-8 at UNC.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 04, 2020, 10:29:30 AM
Groovy shirt.  I had one very similar at about the same time.  Mine was much smaller of course...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 04, 2020, 10:32:44 AM
I was for some reason very proud of that shirt.  I only wore it for special occasions.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 04, 2020, 10:41:10 AM
[img width=500 height=335.99]https://i.imgur.com/eQxfRfS.jpg[/img]

Around 1977-8 at UNC.
Meth Lab,huh?Well hello Walter
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 04, 2020, 10:44:13 AM
I could have made meth easily enough, I had no idea what it was at the time.  I think the popular drugs may have included cocaine, as well as heroin and weed.

There was a lot of weed about of course.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 04, 2020, 01:04:41 PM
of course
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 04, 2020, 05:29:13 PM
The wife just flipped on the AC.  We had the heat on last night.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 04, 2020, 08:47:41 PM
87 degrees here today... not supposed to break 65 tomorrow.  it's that time of year. 

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/95662987_10158798128188755_539353325787676672_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=EgfhYokE_RMAX9X8uO8&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=5e4538c577b127f4b03a195f335b83ad&oe=5ED5731C)

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/95987501_10158798131238755_5953305760132759552_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=HygWc4xfyvwAX-IDcHX&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=33b3889ff8473b4a7d28fa20bc701ba5&oe=5ED5ED11)

instead of routing a little channel on the sides to ease lifting, i ran a groove all the way around.  I rounded them off after taking this pic- including the juice sluice which is extra deep on this one as the guy likes to smoke briskets and such... keeps it neater for presentation.  I think this one was 13.5" tall and 18" wide... it's 1 3/4" thick.. Sapele and Maple- the inlay is oak- which i opposed... pores on oak are far to big for cutting board purposes... Obviously, he's a longhorn fan.   Lettering is 1/8th" deep and resin flooded.  

The next one coming out will be a grid iron... a football field marked properly- with (God help me, the things I do for friends) an Alabama seal center field.... using bloodwood for the endzones and bloodwood+maple for the center circle of the seal... I'll be doing a Tennessee board too- at the same time- just to make me feel better about it. 

how in the hell i got lasso'd into doing cutting boards so much is beyond me... i don't mind it, but it's not like it takes craftsmanship to do them.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 04, 2020, 09:08:23 PM
No lettering,inlaying,routtering - straight forward amish type block - we'll take what you give us and we'll like it ;D
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on May 05, 2020, 12:30:36 AM
I keep my hair short too. I wear a high and tight. Not only was I beginning to look like a chia pet on top but I hadn’t shaved for about a month. My wife finally said enough was enough and went and bought a new set of clippers.

She watched a YouTube video on how to give a high and tight  and sat me down.  She actually gave me a really good haircut.  In fact, I told her if she can cut it that well I might my stop my frequent trips to the barber.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on May 05, 2020, 12:54:54 AM
I've got curls on curls, and im running out of product.  Without product I've a got a Fro.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 05, 2020, 02:39:41 AM
I just take my clippers and a number 2 all the way around.  I've probably paid for 4 haircuts in the past 12 years or so.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 05, 2020, 09:23:54 AM
You girls and your knitting circles
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 05, 2020, 10:39:26 AM
I've got curls on curls, and im running out of product.  Without product I've a got a Fro.
Orange Fro?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on May 05, 2020, 11:02:32 AM
I keep trying to embed a pic but it always just gives me the block X. Not sure what I am doing wrong.

Copying and pasting the link into the "insert image" dialogue box (and it is an https://).   Oh well. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 05, 2020, 11:08:45 AM
try drag & drop

if that easy thing didn't work for me I wouldn't post pics
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 05, 2020, 01:27:35 PM
I keep trying to embed a pic but it always just gives me the block X. Not sure what I am doing wrong.

Copying and pasting the link into the "insert image" dialogue box (and it is an https://).  Oh well.
paste it in there anyway, over top the http part... 

if it's off your computer and not already uploaded to the web somewhere, you'll have to use the attachment feature (or drag and drop)... you 'should' be able to drag and drop pics from the web, too... 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on May 05, 2020, 03:47:08 PM
Hair Salons cannot open soon enough. Won't be long before I look like this.

Usually I have it cut with a 3 on the side and an a 5 on the top. No need for a comb. Actually had to go and buy a comb.

(https://i.imgur.com/j28Rs6Q.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 05, 2020, 04:01:33 PM
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/marines-detain-hostile-passenger?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3Ik6OFY_zRQIwJh8KY9hDkutibVBCBtDtQZiKh63bo8nH276kVxbYsbAg#Echobox=1588705618 (https://taskandpurpose.com/news/marines-detain-hostile-passenger?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3Ik6OFY_zRQIwJh8KY9hDkutibVBCBtDtQZiKh63bo8nH276kVxbYsbAg#Echobox=1588705618)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 05, 2020, 04:56:08 PM
:86:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 05, 2020, 06:06:38 PM
I like the phrase "they breached the door.".
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 05, 2020, 06:28:50 PM
I like the phrase "they breached the door.".
Breacher up! (https://bottlebreacher.com/) 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 05, 2020, 06:33:01 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cNGfHEhtng&fbclid=IwAR2dKybg8bKrs1R9i-83UePNuAwAmHG4q3bd-bb1z9Az1t5_ptXS1UdTqOk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cNGfHEhtng&fbclid=IwAR2dKybg8bKrs1R9i-83UePNuAwAmHG4q3bd-bb1z9Az1t5_ptXS1UdTqOk)

The best tank of WW Two is .......
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 05, 2020, 06:42:49 PM
So who's watching South Korean baseball because you miss sports THAT much?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 05, 2020, 07:39:40 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cNGfHEhtng&fbclid=IwAR2dKybg8bKrs1R9i-83UePNuAwAmHG4q3bd-bb1z9Az1t5_ptXS1UdTqOk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cNGfHEhtng&fbclid=IwAR2dKybg8bKrs1R9i-83UePNuAwAmHG4q3bd-bb1z9Az1t5_ptXS1UdTqOk)

The best tank of WW Two is .......
Heh!  That was pretty good.  I didn't expect the answer--I figured that it would be the Pzkw Mk V (Panther) or the T-34--but I don't disagree with it either.
Like he says about the Japanese tank, how "good it is" has to be considered in light of what it was needed to do.  And the Sherman, in all its variants, was "pretty good" or better in nearly everything it was called upon to be.  From mass-producible to reliable to easily repairable to affordable to light enough to readily deployable strategically, operationally, and tactically to useful in a variety of battlefield roles.  Not the best in tank vs. tank combat, which is how these comparisons usually go, but very serviceable in a wide range of roles.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 05, 2020, 08:41:49 PM
(https://cdn.disclose.tv/sites/default/files/img/inline/2020/04/27/Green_Meteor_Prasenjeet.jpg)

Story here: https://www.disclose.tv/photographer-gets-once-in-a-lifetime-shot-of-meteor-by-accident-398620 (https://www.disclose.tv/photographer-gets-once-in-a-lifetime-shot-of-meteor-by-accident-398620).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 05, 2020, 10:01:02 PM
Was this the thread for Thunderbirds/Blue Angels videos?  Here's one of the flights over DC and ATL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USq7e1UukNU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USq7e1UukNU)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on May 05, 2020, 10:37:27 PM
I watch almost zero TV right now, but I have watched a little baseball on-line. 
 Been reading a lot after I settle in catching up on work.  Next to impossible to work a customary day with two elementary school kids doing their thing.  Throw in my wife's surgery center being back open, sort of, and there's little time to watch a thing. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 06, 2020, 07:55:46 AM
I am on some WW 2 armor FB page and this of course crops up every week or so, I like how this guy approached the problem (and his final answer).  The shear mass of armor the Soviets produced is mind boggling, including things like the SU-152 and ISU-152 with its enormous gun.  Some folks don't realize what the US and Brits would have faced had WW 3 broken out in 1945 or 1947.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 06, 2020, 01:29:34 PM
We would have had to use atomic bombs.

And that would have been problematic because the Soviets had thoroughly penetrated our atomic bomb program.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 06, 2020, 01:52:10 PM
Using the A bomb tactically would have been problematic also.  We might have had a lot of deaths as combat troops moved through impacted areas not understanding the perils of radiation.  While the Russians did develop a nuclear device in 1949, they still lacked a delivery system comparable to the B29.



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 06, 2020, 01:55:53 PM
Blue Angels just flew directly over my house

very loud and awesome 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 06, 2020, 02:06:32 PM
Blue Angels just flew directly over my house

very loud and awesome
Cool, I used to love going to see the Thunderbirds at the annual airshow at Bergstrom Airforce Base in Austin.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 06, 2020, 02:18:01 PM
Using the A bomb tactically would have been problematic also.  We might have had a lot of deaths as combat troops moved through impacted areas not understanding the perils of radiation.  While the Russians did develop a nuclear device in 1949, they still lacked a delivery system comparable to the B29.
I was thinking of bombing Moscow.  By 1948, we had the B-36.
The Russians, being the thieves and copycats that they are, reverse-engineered the B-29 from one that landed in Siberia and was interned.  They called theirs the Tu-4.  It was introduced in 1949.  We would have needed to defeat them by that point because they had the bomb and they had the bomber.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 06, 2020, 02:30:15 PM
I was thinking of bombing Moscow.  By 1948, we had the B-36.
The Russians, being the thieves and copycats that they are, reverse-engineered the B-29 from one that landed in Siberia and was interned.  They called theirs the Tu-4.  It was introduced in 1949.  We would have needed to defeat them by that point because they had the bomb and they had the bomber.
found ya on utube


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ky0ROTsD14 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ky0ROTsD14)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 06, 2020, 02:57:28 PM
There is a difference, potentially, between a device and a bomb of course.  I think at that point the difference was probably a few months.

I have noted before about Iran that they claim not to be developing a nuclear weapon.  And maybe they aren't the IAEA never found evidence for such a program extant today.  Maybe they developed the capability in 2004 and stopped work because they don't have a B-29, or anything else capable of lifting a weapon that heavy very far.  (Imagine their weapon might weight 2,000 pounds, maybe an F4 could be modified to carry it a fairly short distance, or even F14.)

So, now they work on missile capability.  Now, a missile is not really all that dangerous with just conventional explosives.  You don't do much damage with even tens of them in reality and you certainly call attention to yourselves.  Iran would need hundreds of missiles, maybe thousands, with conventional warheads to do much damage.  But of course a large enough missile with an atomic warhead ....

Over a thousand V2s were launched from 200 miles away at London and killed fewer than 3,000 people.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 06, 2020, 03:10:52 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/rMCJL4k.gif)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 06, 2020, 06:30:30 PM
I can't believe youse guys is making light of this serious discussion!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 06, 2020, 06:40:48 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/3Z9TJL2.png)
“Gentlemen, You Can’t Fight In Here! This is The War Room!”: Dr. Strangelove (https://www.tor.com/2011/11/08/qgentlemen-you-cant-fight-in-here-this-is-the-war-roomq-dr-strangelove/)

Never have seen it,is it a good flick
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 06, 2020, 06:45:18 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/3Z9TJL2.png)
“Gentlemen, You Can’t Fight In Here! This is The War Room!”: Dr. Strangelove (https://www.tor.com/2011/11/08/qgentlemen-you-cant-fight-in-here-this-is-the-war-roomq-dr-strangelove/)

Never have seen it,is it a good flick
Yes, it's excellent. Recommend you watch it ASAP.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 06, 2020, 06:46:20 PM

“Gentlemen, You Can’t Fight In Here! This is The War Room!”: Dr. Strangelove (https://www.tor.com/2011/11/08/qgentlemen-you-cant-fight-in-here-this-is-the-war-roomq-dr-strangelove/)

Never have seen it,is it a good flick
Its right up there with "Office Space"  at our house
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 06, 2020, 06:48:54 PM
So good, definitely watch if you never have before.  Or even if you have.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 06, 2020, 06:49:28 PM
Office Space is a good analog, never thought of that before.  Kubrick.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 06, 2020, 06:52:45 PM
I can't believe youse guys is making light of this serious discussion!
sorry CW just couldn't resist
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 06, 2020, 07:06:01 PM
Office Space is a good analog, never thought of that before.  Kubrick.
Mike Judge is the new Stanley Kubrick?

I bet he'd be thrilled to be recognized as such!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on May 06, 2020, 07:43:04 PM
My favorite part of General Turgidson's war room performance is when he's asked if the pilot can make it--Hell yes!--then realizes at the end of his demonstration that everyone wants the answer to be no. 

One of my favorite movies.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 06, 2020, 08:11:29 PM
My favorite part of General Turgidson's war room performance is when he's asked if the pilot can make it--Hell yes!--then realizes at the end of his demonstration that everyone wants the answer to be no.

One of my favorite movies.
if hes good see, he can barrow that baby right in there
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 06, 2020, 08:28:37 PM
My dad attended the USAF Fighter Weapons School's "William Tell" competition in the summer of 1962.  It was at Nellis AFB, so we spent that summer in Las Vegas.  I was 7, so the glamor (faux or otherwise) of it all was completely lost on me.

The competition was in 3 categories: air-to-air gunnery, delivery of high-explosive bombs, and delivery of nuclear bombs.  My dad won the latter two categories and finished 2nd in the first one.

The technique for an F-100 to deliver a nuclear bomb was to approach the target fast and low, then pitch up and release the bomb.  The bomb would go on a ballistic trajectory and detonate at the proper altitude.  The pilot would continue his own climb into a half-loop, with a half-roll at the top--so, an Immelmann--then kick in afterburner, dive down to low level, and hope to get far enough away from the blast to survive.

So, my dad was best in his class at that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 06, 2020, 08:47:26 PM
My dad attended the USAF Fighter Weapons School's "William Tell" competition in the summer of 1962.  It was at Nellis AFB, so we spent that summer in Las Vegas.  I was 7, so the glamor (faux or otherwise) of it all was completely lost on me.

The competition was in 3 categories: air-to-air gunnery, delivery of high-explosive bombs, and delivery of nuclear bombs.  My dad won the latter two categories and finished 2nd in the first one.

The technique for an F-100 to deliver a nuclear bomb was to approach the target fast and low, then pitch up and release the bomb.  The bomb would go on a ballistic trajectory and detonate at the proper altitude.  The pilot would continue his own climb into a half-loop, with a half-roll at the top--so, an Immelmann--then kick in afterburner, dive down to low level, and hope to get far enough away from the blast to survive.

So, my dad was best in his class at that.
or the pilot could just mount the bomb and ride it down
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 06, 2020, 08:51:15 PM
It would be hard to get on it.

And then once on it, it would be hard to push the button in the cockpit to release it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 06, 2020, 08:54:24 PM
It would be hard to get on it.

And then once on it, it would be hard to push the button in the cockpit to release it.
whats funny is that you actually thought this out
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 06, 2020, 10:51:19 PM
What?  You weren't serious?

Well, here, consider this and think good things about our country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmH25WFcA24 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmH25WFcA24)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 07, 2020, 07:58:00 AM
It is bitterly cold here this morning.  The wife had the AC on yesterday and then we turned it off and now I'm freezing.

I wish I knew where I put that winter coat.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 07, 2020, 10:22:01 AM
It was 58 degrees this morning when I went for a run.  That's definitely chilly for this time of year, felt good whilst out and about.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 07, 2020, 10:43:40 AM
We have a chance of frost the next few nights through Sunday night

beautiful weather - I'm serious
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 07, 2020, 11:04:18 AM
Nice sunny day, but only up to 58°F, which is 15°C, which sounds even colder to me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 07, 2020, 11:05:52 AM
supposed to be 58 here

cloudy and showers perhaps

golf league tonight, I'd rather not get wet
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 07, 2020, 11:06:59 AM
One reason I like the °F scale is that it basically covers most of our weather on a 0-100 scale.  And you know if you exceed that it's extreme, usually.

Granted, the K scale or °C scale is important in science et al., but for weather?  Give me °F.  It also has more gradations than Celsius.

The K scale is useful in science of course, but not at all for weather.

I don't mind miles over km, whatever.  But the volumetric stuff is lunacy, he have 2 L Cokes and 1 gallon milk jugs.  Come on.  And in cooking it's even more ridiculous.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 07, 2020, 11:27:45 AM
One reason I like the °F scale is that it basically covers most of our weather on a 0-100 scale.  And you know if you exceed that it's extreme, usually.

Granted, the K scale or °C scale is important in science et al., but for weather?  Give me °F.  It also has more gradations than Celsius.

The K scale is useful in science of course, but not at all for weather.

I don't mind miles over km, whatever.  But the volumetric stuff is lunacy, he have 2 L Cokes and 1 gallon milk jugs.  Come on.  And in cooking it's even more ridiculous.
I think the difference between Fahrenheit and Celsius is less important for the world than the difference between imperial and metric.

The reason for this is that we rarely deal with multiples of tens in temperature. In our world we really don't think much about milliCelsius or KiloCelsius type of units--it feels awkward even trying to type something like that (because they're not even words). And while in some sense it might make sense to base your measurement system on the freezing point and boiling point of water, it's also quite arbitrary in that the boiling point of water only matters in cooking. 

For everything else, I'm a fan of metric. And when it comes to cooking, I'm a fan of recipes that measure in weight rather than volume, mainly for dry ingredients. If you say "1 tsp of salt" and the recipe writer is assuming kosher salt and you're using fine sea salt, guess what--you just over-salted your dish. Even if they say "kosher salt", Morton's is almost twice as dense as Diamond Crystal, so you have to know what the recipe writer meant if they don't call out a brand. Same with various flours. Given how precise everything needs to be in baking, it's outlandish that people are still asked to measure ingredients in cups/tsp/tbsp...

I say go metric with everything.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 07, 2020, 11:32:03 AM
I agree about cooking and product labeling in stores.  It's funny we had "metric" currency before much of the world.

I don't care about miles and feet and temperature.  I adjust pretty well in Europe.  I think over there, they just like seeing a sign that says Lyon is 400 away, it's makes their country seem bigger than it really is, and they get to drive 130 kph so they think they are really going fast.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 07, 2020, 11:54:37 AM
I think the difference between Fahrenheit and Celsius is less important for the world than the difference between imperial and metric.

The reason for this is that we rarely deal with multiples of tens in temperature. In our world we really don't think much about milliCelsius or KiloCelsius type of units--it feels awkward even trying to type something like that (because they're not even words). And while in some sense it might make sense to base your measurement system on the freezing point and boiling point of water, it's also quite arbitrary in that the boiling point of water only matters in cooking.

For everything else, I'm a fan of metric. And when it comes to cooking, I'm a fan of recipes that measure in weight rather than volume, mainly for dry ingredients. If you say "1 tsp of salt" and the recipe writer is assuming kosher salt and you're using fine sea salt, guess what--you just over-salted your dish. Even if they say "kosher salt", Morton's is almost twice as dense as Diamond Crystal, so you have to know what the recipe writer meant if they don't call out a brand. Same with various flours. Given how precise everything needs to be in baking, it's outlandish that people are still asked to measure ingredients in cups/tsp/tbsp...

I say go metric with everything.

Lots of folks have been saying that, for decades.  Basically my entire life.  Hasn't happened yet.

I'm fine either way, I can translate in my head for all of the volumetric measurements.

And I can do it roughly for miles/km but never really need to.  I suspect that if we DID ever switch over, we'd see signage in both, for quite some time.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 07, 2020, 12:06:28 PM
Lots of folks have been saying that, for decades.  Basically my entire life.  Hasn't happened yet.
I often tell my son that "nerds rule the world", which was NOT the case when I was his age. 

Metric makes too much sense not to use, history be damned. And nerds like it.

Eventually we'll force the switch on the normals. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 07, 2020, 12:09:26 PM
I remember as a kid teachers telling us we had to learn the metric system - which made perfect sense.And of course I didn't,course i never learned the whole football playbook either.And somehow i still graduated
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 07, 2020, 12:09:42 PM
I often tell my son that "nerds rule the world", which was NOT the case when I was his age.

Metric makes too much sense not to use, history be damned. And nerds like it.

Eventually we'll force the switch on the normals.
Imagine all those jocks whose heads will explode when forced to calculate 9.8 m/s/s instead of 32 feet/s/s! ;)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 07, 2020, 12:10:47 PM
Who you calling a jock?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2020, 02:48:40 PM
Conversion to metric would be a bitch for us land surveyors, as we deal with legal descriptions using acres, miles, feet, chains, rods, links, etc. 

Original documents cannot, and should not, be changed. I can't imagine the sheer number of property boundary disputes that would be caused. Of course, I do enjoy being called in as an expert witness, so...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 07, 2020, 02:53:49 PM
I'm with you 847 - we'll keep the old ways ;D
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 07, 2020, 03:00:58 PM
Lunkheads
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 07, 2020, 03:03:48 PM
Conversion to metric would be a bitch for us land surveyors, as we deal with legal descriptions using acres, miles, feet, chains, rods, links, etc.

Original documents cannot, and should not, be changed. I can't imagine the sheer number of property boundary disputes that would be caused. Of course, I do enjoy being called in as an expert witness, so...
Obviously some industries may continue to use antiquated and nonsensical measurement systems. 

No reason to hold the rest of us back. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 07, 2020, 03:12:09 PM
Maybe someone could invent a kind of "calculating machine" that could magically transform rods into meters.

(https://i.imgur.com/uPKNvnt.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 07, 2020, 03:30:43 PM
Obviously some industries may continue to use antiquated and nonsensical measurement systems.

No reason to hold the rest of us back.

REAL engineers can proceed to metric.  Others can... well... there you have it. :57:

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 07, 2020, 03:33:45 PM
REAL engineers can proceed to metric.  Others can... well... there you have it. :57:
Exactly. Our products need to be accurate to the sub-nanometer level.

I don't need to worry myself with the difference between a chain and a rod.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 07, 2020, 03:33:50 PM
Maybe some have some confidence issues still latent ....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2020, 03:42:52 PM
I think the rest of the world needs to follow the world's leader. 

Land Surveying is not antiquated. It's a profession in the legal sector, and as a P.L.S., I'm considered an officer of the court.

I find all of you fools guilty.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 07, 2020, 03:48:15 PM
I think the rest of the world needs to follow the world's leader.

Land Surveying is not antiquated. It's a profession in the legal sector, and as a P.L.S., I'm considered an officer of the court.

I find all of you fools guilty.
Your job is not antiquated; your measurement system is.

Chains, rods, links? :smiley_confused1:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2020, 03:54:12 PM
We obviously don't use chains (66') or rods (16.5') to measure anymore, but descriptions going back hundreds of years are written in those terms. There are 100 links in a chain. 80 chains is a mile.

Our instrumentation is capable of both imperial and metric for measurements. With single-person crews, we strictly only use GPS and robotic instruments these days. Sometimes we do need to pull out a level and have 2 people.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 07, 2020, 04:10:27 PM
two's company, three's a crowd

in the pandemic era
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 07, 2020, 05:00:04 PM
I say go metric with everything.
Is that a libertarian thing to say?  ;)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on May 07, 2020, 05:20:53 PM
If you are ever in a home improvement store and looking to buy a tape measure, remember that an engineer's scale is hundredths of a foot, not fractions of inches.  

Bridge engineers still use fractions of inches when drafting plans. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 07, 2020, 05:23:26 PM
I think we had some billion dollar Mars probe auger in because one group used metric and the other English, or something like that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2020, 05:27:36 PM
If you are ever in a home improvement store and looking to buy a tape measure, remember that an engineer's scale is hundredths of a foot, not fractions of inches. 

Bridge engineers still use fractions of inches when drafting plans.
Yeah, all structural engineers still use feet and inches (not 0.01). They follow along the architectural protocols.

Is structural a separate license in MN? In Illinois, I cannot practice structural as a P.E., because IL requires an S.E. license (and separate testing of you want both the P.E. and S.E.).

Engineers cannot practice land surveying in any US jurisdiction. They are trying though.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 07, 2020, 05:35:30 PM
I think we had some billion dollar Mars probe auger in because one group used metric and the other English, or something like that.
Is that why the two sides of the Chunnel didn't meet up correctly?

(or is that actually a myth and they met up just fine)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 07, 2020, 05:54:26 PM
Makes you wonder how they took London Bridge down and set it back up in Arizona....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 07, 2020, 06:39:37 PM
There is a LOT of major construction going on around me now.  We walked about yesterday to look at some of it.  I'm truly impressed at the human capacity to build these things.  They are beehives of activity.  I once wanted to be a civil engineer (I was not sufficiently civil).  I love this stuff.

I could probably sit and watch all day if I had a cool one.  

One road was blocked off, they had linemen up working on overhead lines which have to be put underground.  A nice police lady there escorted us through.

She had a really neat hair style.

The ground here is granite about 3-10 feet down, so the foundations are well set in general.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on May 08, 2020, 08:50:43 AM

Is structural a separate license in MN? In Illinois, I cannot practice structural as a P.E., because IL requires an S.E. license (and separate testing of you want both the P.E. and S.E.).

Engineers cannot practice land surveying in any US jurisdiction. They are trying though.
Structural isn't a separate license in Minnesota. It is a separate one in West Coast states as well. I never wanted to deal with the seismic test, so I never looked too much at the difference until now. 

I've considered getting my PLS, but I suspect my education background is aimed in the wrong direction to pull that off. The district engineer where I used to work has both stamps. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 08, 2020, 09:07:24 AM
Most states require a BS in Land Surveying now, or a related degree with at least 24 credit hours in land surveying. Then you must have 4 years of experience doing boundary/legal work under a PLS. Topo and layout work do not count for much, if at all, in most states.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 09, 2020, 08:20:25 AM
What if this thread never goes away? I guess that would mean that there is no 2020 season, and we will just have an offseason?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 09, 2020, 08:22:20 AM
Well that's a downer.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 09, 2020, 08:30:28 AM
It's interesting to me how many engineering licenses there are.  I can understand why, the work is something on which the public depends for quality.

Or bad things can happen.

The only licenses I have are unrelated to my profession.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 09, 2020, 08:48:52 AM
Licenses for electrical and computer engineers are rare.  There are some subspecialties in power/utilities that require licensing, but that's a pretty small subset.  If you wanted to open your own electrical engineering firm, and advertise as an engineer, you'd need a PE license I think.  But for EEs, that too is quite rare.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 09, 2020, 08:50:05 AM
The ME's and EE's I work with are doing buildings and public works, so they are all licensed. They have to stamp their plans, like I do.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 09, 2020, 08:55:13 AM
The ME's and EE's I work with are doing buildings and public works, so they are all licensed. They have to stamp their plans, like I do.
Yup.  But that's a very small subset for EE.  The vast majority don't pursue licenses because they're unnecessary in most EE fields.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 09, 2020, 09:00:10 AM
I took the required lower-level course in electromagnetics, and for some reason one upper-level power course, but it kind of bored me.  I was definitely far more into solid state, semiconductors, computer architecture, and assembly/machine code programming.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 09, 2020, 09:01:03 AM
 I'm considered an officer of the court.

I find all of you fools guilty.
This court is out of order,You're out of order,this whole trial is out of order
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 09, 2020, 09:01:06 AM
It makes sense in many areas for obvious reasons.

I bet my buddy the physics professor has no professional licenses either.

What we do doesn't really matter ....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 09, 2020, 09:01:55 AM
What if this thread never goes away? I guess that would mean that there is no 2020 season, and we will just have an offseason?
That's simply out of order
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 10, 2020, 09:47:43 AM
2010 Rose Bowl on in 15 minutes BTN

Bucks & Ducks
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on May 10, 2020, 10:10:20 AM
2010 Rose Bowl on in 15 minutes BTN

Bucks & Ducks
What an odd game in the historical record. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 10, 2020, 10:35:46 AM
I'm watching

Ducks take their first lead
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on May 10, 2020, 04:24:04 PM
Texans, I need some tips here.

A local BBQ place was out of brisket but had brisket chili. I like chili and it wasn't pricy so I bought a quart. Realized it was the bean-less sort, and in fact a sort of finer texture I'd expect from chili dog chili (I'm assuming this is the Texas style, or is that less fine?).

Anyway, with the sort of lack of body it has, am I suppose to just eat it as this thin meat soup, or is there a way of consuming I'm missing? Today I mixed in some oyster crackers and put a little on bread, which worked well. I might try a little on spaghetti tomorrow.

I'm probably doing this wrong. So let me know.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 10, 2020, 04:25:27 PM
That sounds amazing....beanless brisket chili?!!  Throw it on a bun or something.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 10, 2020, 04:42:34 PM
sounds like it was made with finely chopped brisket

I like larger chunks of meat in my beanless chili

but, real Texas chili is simply meat and sauce

if the meat is finely chopped it could be quite fine texture

my tri-tip chili looks like this.................

(https://i.imgur.com/IdygxG1.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 10, 2020, 06:32:59 PM
Sounds like chili to put on a hot dog.  Or over spaghetti.  Or maybe Frito chili pie.

Especially if the seasoning is mild.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2020, 06:47:47 PM
http://southforkconservancy.org/confluence-trail-bridge?fbclid=IwAR0xZXcIVxMZRTr28EdF0yKKvIz_FB_G_7sXFW-kmrBWRJj50lh7P5kmOi0 (http://southforkconservancy.org/confluence-trail-bridge?fbclid=IwAR0xZXcIVxMZRTr28EdF0yKKvIz_FB_G_7sXFW-kmrBWRJj50lh7P5kmOi0)

I like walking trails, in cities.

I am making chili tonight for dinner, incidentally.  It is from spaghetti sauce.  No beans.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 10, 2020, 06:57:34 PM
from spaghetti sauce????
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2020, 07:10:03 PM
from spaghetti sauce????
Every time, yup.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 10, 2020, 07:25:14 PM
does your chili contain any chile peppers?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 10, 2020, 07:27:12 PM
Friend of mine puts in a small jar of salsa - it's always good.Years ago I took to putting V-8 in,great addition
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2020, 07:29:32 PM
A buddy of mine grows chilis and garlic and makes this powder for me by freeze drying.  I find it outstanding.  I take spaghetti sauce bolognese and add the chili powder and the wife likes it if I don't add too much for her.

My buddy is a graduate of THE Ohio State University and Big Fan, she he's good all around.  He's also a patent attorney.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 10, 2020, 07:56:50 PM
if it contains chilis and garlic, it's real chili

it should also have onions
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 10, 2020, 08:32:06 PM
and hopes and dreams...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 10, 2020, 08:36:50 PM
but, not beans

unless you're poor and looking for filler
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 10, 2020, 08:57:03 PM
No,Beans,no onions,no fun - next thing you'll tell me I can't pore a Porter into the pot either
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 10, 2020, 09:02:33 PM
chili is great, cause almost anything can be added in good taste

porters always taste good
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 10, 2020, 10:58:04 PM
I do crock pot chili

2 cans diced tomatoes
1 can tomato paste
1 can of red pinto beans
2 lbs lean hamburger cooked and drained
1 large green pepper chopped
1 large onion chopped
1 packet McCormicks chili seasoning
1.5 teaspoons of salt

put in crock pot and cook on low for 8 hours

original recipe calls for 2 cans of red pinto beans
but I only use 1 can to satisfy wife

anyway it takes about 30 min to prepare and tastes pretty good
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 11, 2020, 12:48:18 AM
I do crock pot chili

2 cans diced tomatoes
1 can tomato paste
1 can of red pinto beans
2 lbs lean hamburger cooked and drained
1 large green pepper chopped
1 large onion chopped
1 packet McCormicks chili seasoning
1.5 teaspoons of salt

put in crock pot and cook on low for 8 hours

original recipe calls for 2 cans of red pinto beans
but I only use 1 can to satisfy wife

anyway it takes about 30 min to prepare and tastes pretty good
Beans?

Where do you plan to live now that you've profaned Texas' Holy of Holies, 320?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 11, 2020, 07:52:04 AM
Hey it wasnt my idea but I had to please the wife so I guess Texas will just have to understand

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 11, 2020, 10:27:35 AM
Eh, eat what you like.  My mom made chili with beans in it for me, growing up.  It wasn't until I was out on my own searching for perfect chili, that I realized how flawed her dish was. ;)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 11, 2020, 10:30:00 AM
Speaking of mom, we stopped by my folks for a socially distanced hang-out in their font yard yesterday.  Weather was beautiful, and both my brother and sister were able to stop by at the same time.  It was great hanging out, we'll do that again soon.

Then we stopped by my in-laws for a backyard socially distanced hangout, and my wife was really glad to spend some time with her parents. 

It was a really nice Mother's Day.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 11, 2020, 10:51:46 AM
My mom was an excellent cook, I didn't realize it at the time of course, it was just food.  However, my dad would not eat anything "different", ever.  So, we ate beef, chicken, and pork, period.  No spaghetti, nothing remotely ethnic, other than Southern.

On occasion we'd go to this catfish place that had all you can eat and I recall eating a lot of catfish as a kid there.  I think it used to be near where we live now.

We had corn bread for nearly every meal, dinner rolls on Sunday with beef roast, or ham on Easter.  Veggies were turnip greens, green beans, potatoes, maybe carrots ...  same ol' same ol'.  Mom would pan fry fried chicken, which made a mess, and on occasion Dad would bring home a bucket, which was a HUGE treat.

My Dad would mash corn bread into butter milk for dessert.  I never liked butter milk.  Butter yes, milk yes.

My mom told me to have something green with every dinner, I still try and do that.  The wife adores good friend chicken now, and greens, and BBQ.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 11, 2020, 11:08:00 AM
My mom was an excellent cook, I didn't realize it at the time of course, it was just food.  However, my dad would not eat anything "different", ever.  So, we ate beef, chicken, and pork, period.  No spaghetti, nothing remotely ethnic, other than Southern.

my grandmother was an excellent cook.  So was my mother. 

My father was the same way.  beef, chicken, pork with potatoes and a veggie

nothing remotely ethnic

my father didn't eat chinese or italian until long after my mother had passed and his GF talked him into trying new things - he was probably 50 years old.
 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 11, 2020, 11:09:17 AM
I do crock pot chili


original recipe calls for 2 cans of red pinto beans
but I only use 1 can to satisfy wife

is your wife an Yankee?
that's a good solid Yankee chili right there
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 11, 2020, 12:33:16 PM
is your wife an Yankee?
that's a good solid Yankee chili right there
nope she was born in Manhattan Kansas

but when momma aint happy you do what ever it takes to put a smile on her face
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 11, 2020, 12:55:24 PM
Manhattan, whether in Kansas or NYC is Yankee country

far enough north that they put beans in their chili
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 11, 2020, 01:39:59 PM
it's a golderned shame is what it is
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 11, 2020, 01:49:29 PM
it's a golderned shame is what it is
I'll still die happy
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on May 11, 2020, 01:54:27 PM
We're all sinners...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 11, 2020, 04:09:21 PM
There's a public park next to the Colorado home of Ed and Lisa McCaffrey where their four sons played as kids. It's not easily visible to the general public, tucked behind two big hills in a suburb outside Denver.

The park almost was taken for granted by Max, Christian, Dylan and Luke while they were growing up as sons of Denver Broncos wide receiver Ed McCaffrey. During the coronavirus pandemic, it has become a makeshift offseason training site for three of them.


It is on this field where Christian, the 23-year-old All-Pro running back for the Carolina Panthers; Dylan, 21, a junior quarterback for the University of Michigan; and Luke, 19, a sophomore quarterback for the University of Nebraska, work out daily with their three-time Super Bowl champion father, who is the head football coach at the University of Northern Colorado.

Max, 25, a former Duke wide receiver who has spent some time in the NFL, would be there as well if he weren't holed up on the South Carolina coast with his girlfriend and her family.

The McCaffreys are making the most of a football offseason of social distancing, seclusion and training.

"It's provided us with a good situation for the time, even though each one of us would love to be with our teammates," Dylan said. "Never in a million years would we have come home for this long and have the opportunity to do this if the world wasn't, unfortunately, the way it is right now.

"I don't know if we have all sat down and focused on football like this, probably ever."


Occasionally a few fans will gather to watch the practices.

"Christian gave his gloves to one little kid who was there, which was kind of cool to see," Dylan said. "We don't turn heads quite like him."

Dylan and Luke can put their older brother -- who last season became the third NFL player to have 1,000 yards rushing and receiving in the same season -- through any drill Christian ran with the Panthers. And they keep their timing down with arguably the most versatile running back in the NFL, a player who can run the route tree as well as any wide receiver.

They're a family-made team with a dad who has coached them almost from the time they were born.

"I'm able to do everything," Christian said. "It's just not with the team."


The time of the wake-up call varies, depending on how late the three stayed up the night before playing video games or binging the latest Netflix series, but making sure everyone gets a good night's sleep is a priority.

Christian has a unique way of conditioning, more like a track athlete in terms of stretching and yoga-like drills to focus on his core.

"It works for me. It warms me up, and I stick to it," he said.

Dylan and Luke join Christian in his conditioning occasionally, but because they are quarterbacks, they'll often work separately to focus on the arms and upper body.

They all lift together on a slot rack their dad used when he was a player for the Broncos from 1995 to 2003 and a few other pieces of equipment they purchased on their own for their parents' home.

"I don't know if [the weights] had been touched from then until now," Dylan joked.


Ed, 51, often will put Dylan and Luke through passing drills while Christian warms up. Ed also will run routes. He's well qualified, having made 565 catches for 7,422 yards and 55 touchdowns in 13 NFL seasons.

"It's awesome," said Dylan, the heir apparent to Shea Patterson as Michigan's starter. "It allows me to train at the highest level I possibly can, which is tough for a lot of people during this time."

When Christian joins the group, he'll work on routes from his new playbook provided by first-year offensive coordinator Joe Brady, who helped make LSU quarterback Joe Burrow the Heisman Trophy winner and first pick of the 2020 NFL draft, by Cincinnati.

Watching Christian's work ethic is inspiring to his younger siblings.

"He's worked very hard to get to the level he is, and that's motivation for us to get out and work," Dylan said.

So who plays defense?

"Nobody right now," Dylan said with a laugh. "Every now and then me and my little brother try to get out there and try and cover [Christian] or stand where a defender would be."

Ultimately, though, neither is able to stay with a player who former Panthers teammate Jonathan Stewart said was "unstoppable" in one-on-one situations.

Much of what they do has an impact on the mental side of the game as well.

"We've had multiple times where we're sitting around the living room and we'll go through some film on a team and get everybody's opinion, as scholars of the game instead of just fans," Dylan said. "We've been able to train at a pretty high level."

The sharing of knowledge doesn't include sitting in on each other's virtual team meetings. And it most definitely doesn't include sharing each other's playbooks.

They'll go to their respective rooms at their parents' home or Christian's apartment not far away for team-specific study. Michigan and Nebraska aren't scheduled to play each other in 2020, but there's still protocol to follow.

"A little hesitant to just dish that out," Dylan said. "I'll give my dad a few golden plays every now and then, but it's almost like a sacred text between buildings. You don't do that very much."

Christian in particular has to keep proprietary rights. The Panthers don't want to give away any secrets that Brady and first-year coach Matt Rhule could spring on NFL competition this fall.

Working on his own isn't much different from what Christian experienced in 2017 after being selected with the No. 8 pick.

Because Stanford's academic calendar is on a quarters system and the NCAA doesn't allow players to participate in NFL offseason programs until final exams are completed, Christian didn't join the Panthers until June and prepared for his rookie season in 2017 virtually.


"The biggest thing is you've got to adapt," Christian said. "Everyone in the league is going through the same thing. We can't start making excuses for ourselves because we're talking over a camera."

Christian has no competition for the Panthers' starting job, so how he emerges from the lockdown isn't significant from a playing-time standpoint. That angle is a lot more important to his brothers.

Dylan must beat out sophomore Joe Milton at Michigan. Luke is involved in what has been called a wide-open competition against 2019 starter Adrian Martinez, who is recovering from surgery, and others on the Nebraska depth chart. If he doesn't do well, he could be moved to another position.

The competition among the brothers should help for what's ahead. But the most intense competition comes after practice, when the brothers begin playing video games.

"Luke and Christian will come to blows with that," Dylan said. "I'll get competitive with my brother fishing."


Christian's competitive nature in video games was legendary when he was at Stanford.

"Christian has a habit of breaking controllers," former Cardinal teammate and current San Francisco 49ers defensive tackle Solomon Thomas told ESPN last season.

Some of the most intense video game battles are in Fortnite and in NHL games. They dug up their old Xbox to play NCAA Football. Christian typically chooses to play as Stanford and use star back Tyler Gaffney.

"That's the one that gets us riled up the most," Dylan said. "If [Christian] wins, I'll get upset. If I win, he'll get upset. No matter what, somebody is upset the rest of the day.

On the field, the brotherly competition is mostly between Dylan and Luke because they play the same position. Their father, for example, will drag a garbage can out to see who's best at dropping footballs into one at various distances.


When [Luke] won, I don't know if I spoke to him about it the rest of the day," Dylan said.

Christian, who has an NFL touchdown pass, doesn't get upset if he loses in that contest because throwing isn't his primary responsibility.

"Now, if we beat him in a race, that would be different," Dylan said. "He'd be pretty upset."


Christian ran the 40-yard dash in 4.48 seconds at the NFL combine coming out of Stanford. Luke, who has lined up some at receiver, at running back and on kick returns for Nebraska, has been clocked in the 4.5 range.

"That would be an interesting race to see them both head-to-head," Dylan said. "Right now I'd be third there, but I'm working on it."

All three brothers and their father are working together to become better when the pandemic restrictions are lifted and they are allowed to return to their teams. They're making the most out of a strange time, and all are thankful they have one another.

"I'm very fortunate with the setup here," Christian said. "I've got everything I need. I've been treating this like it's OTAs. So for me it's been great."

Dylan agreed.

"It's unfortunate it's a negative circumstance," he said. "However, it definitely paints a picture of what's really, truly important in life and what would hurt you if you lost something right now. It would be the people you love."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 13, 2020, 08:20:24 AM
Thunderbirds fly over Austin today

https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/thunderbirds-to-fly-over-austin-wednesday-flight-plan-later-today/ (https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/thunderbirds-to-fly-over-austin-wednesday-flight-plan-later-today/)

HoooooRaaaa
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 13, 2020, 08:27:33 AM
Eh, eat what you like.  My mom made chili with beans in it for me, growing up.  It wasn't until I was out on my own searching for perfect chili, that I realized how flawed her dish was. ;)


The Prodigal should return home
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 13, 2020, 08:37:24 AM
Thunderbirds fly over Austin today

https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/thunderbirds-to-fly-over-austin-wednesday-flight-plan-later-today/ (https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/thunderbirds-to-fly-over-austin-wednesday-flight-plan-later-today/)

HoooooRaaaa
Yup, looks like they're coming very close to my house in Cedar Park, so we should be able to see them.  Might get up on the roof to get a longer view.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2020, 09:22:54 AM
Just back from Walmart, unchanged, again more workers inside than customers.  Beef is in short supply.  Everything else looked pretty good.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 13, 2020, 02:01:03 PM
plenty of chicken?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2020, 02:09:20 PM
plenty of chicken?
I didn't look hard, but my impression is the meat counter was in decent shape except beef.  There is plenty of fish.  I rarely buy meat at Walmart, as in almost never.

I go for packaged goods, which often are a lot cheaper than at Kroger.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 13, 2020, 02:17:51 PM
I'm guessing the meat packers, especially the largest producer of fresh meat, Tyson, has a couple months supply of beef, chicken, and hogs in freezers and coolers across the country.

Shutting down a few plants here or there for a month or so won't cause a shortage, but it will cause the prices to go WAY up, just because.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2020, 02:22:33 PM
I bought some ground beef today, they had some, the price was not higher than normal.

I'm making chili tonight.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2020, 03:04:51 PM
https://fanbuzz.com/college-football/app-state-vs-michigan-2007/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=agora&utm_term=cfb&utm_campaign=cfb&fbclid=IwAR2dVXfybRgPD7VM_R21iXLl19COBYdOKgaKHmcCGzvwzGyw8fLbi-e7PWU (https://fanbuzz.com/college-football/app-state-vs-michigan-2007/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=agora&utm_term=cfb&utm_campaign=cfb&fbclid=IwAR2dVXfybRgPD7VM_R21iXLl19COBYdOKgaKHmcCGzvwzGyw8fLbi-e7PWU)

Battery team in the Big House ....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 14, 2020, 07:45:03 AM
The NCAA extended the dead period from May 31 to June 30 yesterday. No recruiting visits, no practice, no camps.

This thread may live on for a while.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 14, 2020, 08:58:33 AM
Weird post to wrong thread...




Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 14, 2020, 10:17:40 AM
Weird post to wrong thread...





The point is that this thread may live on for a while.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 14, 2020, 10:53:47 AM
Hey utee did you watch the flyover yesterday?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 14, 2020, 11:11:53 AM
Hey utee did you watch the flyover yesterday?

We tried but they didn't come close enough to the house to see them.  Heard them from afar, though.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 14, 2020, 11:13:25 AM
The point is that this thread may live on for a while.
No, sorry, I was commenting on my own post.  I had responded to the Coronavirus thread, and it put it in this thread.  I see that happen every now and then, on this platform as well as other message boards.  

So I deleted my response and wrote that admittedly cryptic message instead. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 14, 2020, 11:17:53 AM
We had a nice view here, but really, I don't think you missed all that much.  The air shows are a lot better than just a fly over.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 14, 2020, 11:20:57 AM
Just really wanted the kids to see it, I've seen them maybe a dozen times, they used to do an air show every year at Bergstrom Air Force Base here in Austin.

There were plenty of facebook and youtube videos of it though. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 14, 2020, 11:22:41 AM
Watching 1993 Miami @ FSU, and a crazy stat posted after FSU had a long TD run in the 1st quarter:
Miami hadn't allowed a first quarter TD run in 39 games!  I can't wrap my head around that.
And concurrently, they hadn't allowed a passing TD in the first quarter in 17 games.  

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 14, 2020, 12:27:10 PM
The croissandwich and hash browns (tater tots) at Burger King are so good.  And yes, I order it without egg!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 14, 2020, 12:32:17 PM
the Canes played some dern good defense back in the 90s
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 14, 2020, 12:32:39 PM
nothing at Burger King is good.  IMO
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 14, 2020, 12:48:55 PM
the Canes played some dern good defense back in the 90s
As the game winds down, their QB here and vs Nebraska in the 1994 season's Orange Bowl was Frank Costa.  He stunk.  But he's got me thinking...when was Miami's QB not the weak link?  
In the 80s, it seems like their QB was the strength of the team, from Kelly to Kosar to Testaverde.  But as the program grew and improved quickly, somewhere along the way, the QB became the weak link.  You could even argue they had a Heisman-winning 'weak link" in Torretta.  

I'm barely too young to know, but were Erickson and Walsh strengths?  

I view Dorsey as a Torretta - got awards and recognition...but was really just steering the Ferrari.  The mid-90s weren't kind to the Canes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on May 14, 2020, 01:44:53 PM
Walsh was good, but had some of the best weapons Miami has ever had.  My memory of Craig Erickson was that the 89 team won the title in spite of him.  He wasn't really the key, and was banged up and Toretta started the game they lost to FSU.   

 He was quite sharp his senior year.   BYU and ND just flat out beat Miami in 90.

Costa was not good but I felt his OL got trucked in that OB vs Nebraska.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on May 14, 2020, 03:04:19 PM
nothing at Burger King is good.  IMO
The bacon, egg, and cheese croissantwiches are delicious. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 14, 2020, 03:19:55 PM
There is something about a croissant in France that can't be duplicated here.  Costco comes somewhat close.  

I found that if I order one at Burger King or Arby's (back when I'd eat at such places) and pronounce it correctly, they would look at me like I was from Mars ...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 14, 2020, 04:57:34 PM
The bacon, egg, and cheese croissantwiches are delicious.
you do taste your food???
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 14, 2020, 08:31:08 PM
Stop it you drink Bud,I agree with GR the Croissanwiches aren't bad at all
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 14, 2020, 08:58:06 PM
A friend of mine refused to eat at Burger King, but I know she loves her breakfast foods.  So I just had her try one.  Loved it.  
No, it's not some fresh French croissant baked overlooking a vineyard.  But an english muffin is plain.  And fast food biscuits are....bricks.  
It's very likely overly sugared and overly salted, but if you tried it, you'd enjoy it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 14, 2020, 09:05:40 PM
A friend of mine refused to eat at Burger King, but I know she loves her breakfast foods.  So I just had her try one.  Loved it. 
No, it's not some fresh French croissant baked overlooking a vineyard.  But an english muffin is plain.  And fast food biscuits are....bricks. 
It's very likely overly sugared and overly salted, but if you tried it, you'd enjoy it.
Egg lobby?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on May 14, 2020, 09:21:30 PM
A friend of mine refused to eat at Burger King, but I know she loves her breakfast foods.  So I just had her try one.  Loved it. 
No, it's not some fresh French croissant baked overlooking a vineyard.  But an english muffin is plain.  And fast food biscuits are....bricks. 
It's very likely overly sugared and overly salted, but if you tried it, you'd enjoy it.
Sausage, egg, and cheese croissant with French toast sticks. Damn good fast food breakfast.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 14, 2020, 09:25:55 PM
We're making a bobby flay recipe tonight for Mahi Mahi. Recipe calls for 3# of fish. We have two ~5 oz filets. 

Just noticed the wife is measuring the marinade to the original recipe. 

I'm not sayin' nuttin'. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 14, 2020, 09:28:57 PM
We're making a bobby flay recipe tonight for Mahi Mahi. Recipe calls for 3# of fish. We have two ~5 oz filets.

Just noticed the wife is measuring the marinade to the original recipe.

I'm not sayin' nuttin'.
Best plan. Fish will only take on so much. You can reuse the blend up to a week later, on another fish. I'd go Salmon.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 15, 2020, 05:04:43 PM
If it ain't fried catfish, I just poke at it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 15, 2020, 05:27:14 PM
Mmmmmmm fried catfish.  My FIL does it better than any I've ever had, anywhere.  He's a miracle worker with the stuff.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 15, 2020, 05:39:04 PM
Catfish is somewhat of anathema to Californians... I think trout falls in the same boat. 

Growing up in the Midwest, trout seems like good eatin' to me, and blackened catfish is great. 

Fried catfish I assume is good, but just about anything fried is good. 

@utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) recommended a fried seafood restaurant when I came to Austin, and it was good. What I really appreciated it for was the atmosphere, not the food. It was a unique place, with the sort of local charm that you're not going to get at, say, a high-falutin' steakhouse. Heck, my Uber driver said [and I agreed] that from the road it looked more like a strip club than a restaurant. Was the food mind-blowing? No... It was fried seafood. It was everything fried seafood should be. But I loved the place because it was far more interesting than I'd have ever found on my own. 

After my last experience at an Outback steakhouse, I say I'd never eat there again. But that's not true. I'd go back for a Bloomin' Onion. Maybe even a burger. Just not a steak. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 15, 2020, 07:31:45 PM
You want to have fun in the kitchen, make your own bloomin' onion!  It's kind of hard, but not a big deal if you screw it up - you're out an onion.  

I made a pretty good one, and you can whip up that sauce that comes with it, too, very easily.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 15, 2020, 07:53:01 PM
I get good steaks at the local Outback

they are not prime and outstanding, but they are very good
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 15, 2020, 08:07:08 PM
You want to have fun in the kitchen, make your own bloomin' onion!  It's kind of hard, but not a big deal if you screw it up - you're out an onion. 

I made a pretty good one, and you can whip up that sauce that comes with it, too, very easily.
It's a possibility. Maybe I'll give it a shot.

It probably falls in the category of "things that would cost $8 in the restaurant but I can make it for $5 and a big mess" and thus maybe not worth it. But at least I wouldn't have to get in the car or step foot in Outback. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 15, 2020, 08:53:39 PM
And you have a lil story, depending on how messy/successful you are with it.

I was visiting a friend who was pregnant and she was craving a bloomin' onion, but it was too early or too late, I forget.  So we make 2 ourselves and they turned out pretty good.  Doing it with a knife is hard - apparently you can buy an apparatus that'll cut it for you.  Each piece/row isn't as narrow as in the restaurant, but it still works well and tastes the same.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 15, 2020, 10:01:18 PM
not on the Coronavirus thread................



(https://scontent.fdsm1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/94786269_653753265405990_1069879931141357568_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=2d5d41&_nc_ohc=84rIVb8mNycAX-hlVIN&_nc_ht=scontent.fdsm1-1.fna&oh=e6383cd89e83a47b0297b66217ceb8eb&oe=5EE481FE)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 15, 2020, 11:18:51 PM
not on the Coronavirus thread................



(https://scontent.fdsm1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/94786269_653753265405990_1069879931141357568_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=2d5d41&_nc_ohc=84rIVb8mNycAX-hlVIN&_nc_ht=scontent.fdsm1-1.fna&oh=e6383cd89e83a47b0297b66217ceb8eb&oe=5EE481FE)
It's funny, but I don't think it's particularly true.  For as long as I can remember, the news--at least the national news--has told you what you're supposed to think about something.  You probably aren't old enough to remember that in February 1968, in the immediate aftermath of the great US-ARVN battlefield victory in the Tet Offensive, Walter Cronkite ("the most trusted man in America"), reporting from Vietnam, declared that the Vietnam War was unwinnable.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 16, 2020, 12:31:38 AM
total change of subject and fully in the realm of "y'all ain't gonna believe this shizen, but...".... 

this may be winded, but it'll be..... fascinating. 

my 7 year old daughter has a friend who lives two streets over.  good kid, decent parents- but they like to drink... and they belly up to my bar every weekend which is guaranteed to get worse as summer encroaches. 

apparently the wife of this family was sitting on their front porch when a bicycle pedals past- and she waives as is the custom.... the cyclist lady waives back... and then she doubles back to chat- they were strangers at this point. 

she proceeds to share her life story.. crying and laughing within seconds of each... playing with her phone the entire time.  of the sudden a truck pulls in- the cyclists husband... after a while they left, and the couple (parents of my kids friend) kind of shrug it off... 

next day: cyclist lady pulls back in the drive of this couple.. decides they should all go on a bike ride... to my friggin house (as it turns out)... so, mom, kid, and this lady arrive in my drive where i am working on my boat with a friend... 

this lady introduces herself- ends up she lives two houses up and behind me.  she asks if i have some wine to share- which gets her directed to the wife.. the kids jump in the pool and this lady wanders into the house to find my wife and presumably a glass of wine... 

my 20yo kid is inside with one of her friends... says this lady walks in and finds the wine rack, and proceeds pulling corks.. apparently without a care about value... her first victim (but not her last by a far cry) was a bottle of Champagne -veuve clicquot from several years back that was more of a keepsake or decoration- not that it's exactly top shelf but not bad, either... and chugs it.... after draining about half she stops and declares "this isn't wine!"- laughs and grabs another bottle... fortunately some white crap the wife keeps around for folks who drink that swill... 

so over the next two or so hours i migrated from the boat to the bar where several more people had gathered... had a few beers, talk some smack... and some strange fella walks in... the husband of this crazy lady... it's not often i get a weird vibe from a dude- but i got a weird vibe... from this dude.  


so while drinking a couple beers (i rarely have more than three a week and never more than two in a sitting) and chowing on foods the wife was presenting, i noticed the 'women folk' were acting strange.. real strange... but.. i was in mundane conversations with dudes and keeping this 'new' guy in at least the corner of my eye.... something real strange was happening, perhaps, but it wan't my problem- it was a woman's problem...

i watched my wife cross the yard and go into her she shed- there is a freezer and an extra 'fridge in there- i guessed she was short of something and retrieving it... not ten seconds behind her follows the strange lady- who i've decided deserved at least the other corner of my eye at this point, and mainly due to the private whispered conversations between her husband and her.... weird something is going on, but i've no clue what.. the mom of my kids friend asks me "where is your wife?".. I told her.. she asks "where is (whatever that womans name is) and i tell her she's in the she shed with my wife- her eyes bulge and she literally walks about as fast as someone can without running toward the she shed... thirty seconds later they all come out.... 

it's just after dark now, and the parents of my kids friends decide they are leaving, which is strange... they usually stay late.  they ask for me to haul them home on the golf cart- sure... i know the drill... i'm the only sober person (of age) and this chore usually falls to me... 

on the way they fill me in... holy crap... i tell them to tuck and roll because i just left my wife and 7 year old with those people.. the 20 yo had left long before this.. 

i pull up in front of the barn and walk quickly through (garage doors pass through, bar/cook pit is on the backside)... this woman is hugging my wife and kissing her on the cheek telling her what a great time she's had.. the husband is just sitting there.. my wife breaks free and tells me in stern tone "i'm going to put the kid to bed and sleep with her tonight"... she is approaching me as she is saying this, gives me a hug goodnight and says quietly in my ear "and i'm locking the door"... 

i walk these strange folks to the gate at the front of the barn, and.... i heard it for myself... this lady (and i'd heard her say it at least 100 times earlier, but had no clue its meaning) wanted to make an upside down pineapple... i thought "a cake?"... then i thought "a drink of some sort?"... but neither fit.. then she went into detail- and i mean detail- of what she wanted to do with my wife... and the husband stood there nodding approvingly.... 

i'm a fairly nice fella... i don't seek confrontation... i know to keep quiet and walk away, because i can also go from zero to life without the chance of parole in four seconds flat.. this circumstance, however, humored me in much the same way i imagine the masses were humored by 'tiger king'.  so, i kept making excuses and telling them i needed to go to bed.. the kid needed to sleep and needed her momma... and that we'd see them later on... anything to peacefully rid myself of them and rely on sobriety of the variety that hits you like an avalanche when the sun comes up- the kind that questions your sanity and conscious and scares you to church or whatever spiritual sanctity with the common "i did what? i really said that? did i... OH NO... OH MY GOD...Please tell me it was a bad dream!!!!" to keep them away- forever if the gods are good... 

at one point this lady tells me she's going in to talk with my wife and if that kid is still awake she'll toss her in the closet... i'm thinking about my acceleration again... smile, and say 'see ya!!!'.....

i googled 'upside down pineapple'..  well... apparently if you are into swinging and are inviting other swingers into your home you would place a flag, a sign, a picture, or even a real pineapple upside down within a few feet of your front door... apparently it started at supermarkets where people would aimlessly push a cart around the place with a whole pineapple upside down in it... and maybe these things are good to know so as not to entice people who have zero clue about it? 

i wandered around the house's exterior well after midnight looking for some sign of something these people may have mistaken for such a sign, and there is nothing.. i wondered around inside the house after that looking for same, and came up empty.  there is a 1000pc puzzle still in the box with a pineapple, and there is a can of pineapples in the pantry... that is all we have for that... 

i figured they were gone... i was wrong. 

tuesday i'm working on the boat again, this time in the engine compartment... a vehicle pulls in... i've not seen it before... it's this woman.... she has brought back to me a wine glass she left with, and offered an apology for her behavior... 

now here is the thing... i don't consider myself an asshole, but just about everyone who knows me will quickly argue that... i'm as nice as can be- BUT- if you put me in a position where i have to do something i don't want to, you're going to hear about it... that's not ME being an asshole, that's YOU MAKING ME BE AN ASSHOLE... which makes YOU the asshole... which clears a lane for me to mash the throttle- which i WILL do, and because 'somebody' has to be the bad guy... fine.. i'm the bad guy.. 

much to my amazement- as this woman apologizes, i tell her "don't worry about it- it's all good... nobody got hurt.. but.. you're not welcome here anymore.". 

i thought that would do it based off of her facial reaction. 

turns out i was wrong. 

she showed up tonight... i'm finishing off a cigar and a good bourbon while shooting the bull with a friend, and i hear the latch on the gate opening- i turn my head and witness this woman coming on through as if she's been doing it for years... this time? i was a little more forceful when i said to her (again) YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE... she stops and says, "okay, sorry"... and leaves... 

i don't think she's done... i don't think her husband is either... a matter of fact, i think they'll both happen by at some point to 'talk things over'... at what point i go wide open throttle.. i've been nice twice- a rarity.. i've been 1/4 forceful in voice once... next time there will be physical demonstration of force.  

what in the friggin' world is wrong with people? seriously? AND THEY LIVE WITHIN 200 YARDS OF US??? they've been there for six months... and here is the thing i find really unsettling: I truly believe, and i'm damn good about reading people usually, that her 'husband' (can he really be her husband by any other reason but law if he pawns her out like that?) sets her out to hunt.. obviously this woman is into this 'upside down pineapple' thing, but... i get the idea and i believe it well founded that HE sets her out to target and hunt potential participants... 

live and let live is my forever mantra- so long as you aren't breaking the law or screwing someone else over, have at it.  but... go to vegas or somewhere they have meet ups for that kind of thing... in the neighborhood you live? WTH is wrong with people? 

so.... i don't share stuff like this in person... so i vent here- right here in the SoC thread... what a friggin' mess.  funny, yeah... but there is a weird vibe i get from it i don't like... like i may hear from these people at a strange time or place... goes to that old "a woman scorned" thing... which i've long determined is accurate. 

what y'all think?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on May 16, 2020, 01:18:42 AM
It's funny, but I don't think it's particularly true.  For as long as I can remember, the news--at least the national news--has told you what you're supposed to think about something.  You probably aren't old enough to remember that in February 1968, in the immediate aftermath of the great US-ARVN battlefield victory in the Tet Offensive, Walter Cronkite ("the most trusted man in America"), reporting from Vietnam, declared that the Vietnam War was unwinnable.
This is in part true. Back in the day, they were at times more clear about commentary. That thing he did was considered a commentary, even though obviously he was for the most part considered a very thoughtful newsreader. (It was also a pretty rare turn to commentary for him and I've read he was a war hawk before that trip)

Vietnam coverage is an interesting example of what stands out. There was a book I read in college where the author went back and watched hours and hours of CBS news (and maybe read the NY Times? One of the big newspapers), and basically all the commentary was stenographic of the military officials who said it was going well. There was even a report where the fella who dropped the bombs out of planes talked about how accurate his crosshairs were in getting the bombs on target and not blowing up villages (there was no fact checking about the status of said villages). 

Tet swung things in part because the TV cameras were often to big to get out into the field, so at best you had reporters describing things. But when Tet happened, the violence came to the cameras in Saigon. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 16, 2020, 01:51:10 AM
Yeah, it was an editorial, explicitly so.  I should correct what I posted earlier--Cronkite did not make that broadcast from Vietnam.  It was from the studio after his return.

Supposedly, Cronkite talked to Gen. Creighton Abrams, who told him that the war was unwinnable.  But the same Wikipedia article that provided that nugget also misidentified Abrams as the CG of MAC-V when he talked with Cronkite.  Abrams was Gen. William Westmoreland's deputy at the time.  Abrams took command about four months later.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 16, 2020, 06:57:12 AM
total change of subject and fully in the realm of "y'all ain't gonna believe this shizen, but..."....

this may be winded, but it'll be..... fascinating.

my 7 year old daughter has a friend who lives two streets over.  good kid, decent parents- but they like to drink... and they belly up to my bar every weekend which is guaranteed to get worse as summer encroaches.

apparently the wife of this family was sitting on their front porch when a bicycle pedals past- and she waives as is the custom.... the cyclist lady waives back... and then she doubles back to chat- they were strangers at this point.

she proceeds to share her life story.. crying and laughing within seconds of each... playing with her phone the entire time.  of the sudden a truck pulls in- the cyclists husband... after a while they left, and the couple (parents of my kids friend) kind of shrug it off...

next day: cyclist lady pulls back in the drive of this couple.. decides they should all go on a bike ride... to my friggin house (as it turns out)... so, mom, kid, and this lady arrive in my drive where i am working on my boat with a friend...

this lady introduces herself- ends up she lives two houses up and behind me.  she asks if i have some wine to share- which gets her directed to the wife.. the kids jump in the pool and this lady wanders into the house to find my wife and presumably a glass of wine...

my 20yo kid is inside with one of her friends... says this lady walks in and finds the wine rack, and proceeds pulling corks.. apparently without a care about value... her first victim (but not her last by a far cry) was a bottle of Champagne -veuve clicquot from several years back that was more of a keepsake or decoration- not that it's exactly top shelf but not bad, either... and chugs it.... after draining about half she stops and declares "this isn't wine!"- laughs and grabs another bottle... fortunately some white crap the wife keeps around for folks who drink that swill...

so over the next two or so hours i migrated from the boat to the bar where several more people had gathered... had a few beers, talk some smack... and some strange fella walks in... the husband of this crazy lady... it's not often i get a weird vibe from a dude- but i got a weird vibe... from this dude. 


so while drinking a couple beers (i rarely have more than three a week and never more than two in a sitting) and chowing on foods the wife was presenting, i noticed the 'women folk' were acting strange.. real strange... but.. i was in mundane conversations with dudes and keeping this 'new' guy in at least the corner of my eye.... something real strange was happening, perhaps, but it wan't my problem- it was a woman's problem...

i watched my wife cross the yard and go into her she shed- there is a freezer and an extra 'fridge in there- i guessed she was short of something and retrieving it... not ten seconds behind her follows the strange lady- who i've decided deserved at least the other corner of my eye at this point, and mainly due to the private whispered conversations between her husband and her.... weird something is going on, but i've no clue what.. the mom of my kids friend asks me "where is your wife?".. I told her.. she asks "where is (whatever that womans name is) and i tell her she's in the she shed with my wife- her eyes bulge and she literally walks about as fast as someone can without running toward the she shed... thirty seconds later they all come out....

it's just after dark now, and the parents of my kids friends decide they are leaving, which is strange... they usually stay late.  they ask for me to haul them home on the golf cart- sure... i know the drill... i'm the only sober person (of age) and this chore usually falls to me...

on the way they fill me in... holy crap... i tell them to tuck and roll because i just left my wife and 7 year old with those people.. the 20 yo had left long before this..

i pull up in front of the barn and walk quickly through (garage doors pass through, bar/cook pit is on the backside)... this woman is hugging my wife and kissing her on the cheek telling her what a great time she's had.. the husband is just sitting there.. my wife breaks free and tells me in stern tone "i'm going to put the kid to bed and sleep with her tonight"... she is approaching me as she is saying this, gives me a hug goodnight and says quietly in my ear "and i'm locking the door"...

i walk these strange folks to the gate at the front of the barn, and.... i heard it for myself... this lady (and i'd heard her say it at least 100 times earlier, but had no clue its meaning) wanted to make an upside down pineapple... i thought "a cake?"... then i thought "a drink of some sort?"... but neither fit.. then she went into detail- and i mean detail- of what she wanted to do with my wife... and the husband stood there nodding approvingly....

i'm a fairly nice fella... i don't seek confrontation... i know to keep quiet and walk away, because i can also go from zero to life without the chance of parole in four seconds flat.. this circumstance, however, humored me in much the same way i imagine the masses were humored by 'tiger king'.  so, i kept making excuses and telling them i needed to go to bed.. the kid needed to sleep and needed her momma... and that we'd see them later on... anything to peacefully rid myself of them and rely on sobriety of the variety that hits you like an avalanche when the sun comes up- the kind that questions your sanity and conscious and scares you to church or whatever spiritual sanctity with the common "i did what? i really said that? did i... OH NO... OH MY GOD...Please tell me it was a bad dream!!!!" to keep them away- forever if the gods are good...

at one point this lady tells me she's going in to talk with my wife and if that kid is still awake she'll toss her in the closet... i'm thinking about my acceleration again... smile, and say 'see ya!!!'.....

i googled 'upside down pineapple'..  well... apparently if you are into swinging and are inviting other swingers into your home you would place a flag, a sign, a picture, or even a real pineapple upside down within a few feet of your front door... apparently it started at supermarkets where people would aimlessly push a cart around the place with a whole pineapple upside down in it... and maybe these things are good to know so as not to entice people who have zero clue about it?

i wandered around the house's exterior well after midnight looking for some sign of something these people may have mistaken for such a sign, and there is nothing.. i wondered around inside the house after that looking for same, and came up empty.  there is a 1000pc puzzle still in the box with a pineapple, and there is a can of pineapples in the pantry... that is all we have for that...

i figured they were gone... i was wrong.

tuesday i'm working on the boat again, this time in the engine compartment... a vehicle pulls in... i've not seen it before... it's this woman.... she has brought back to me a wine glass she left with, and offered an apology for her behavior...

now here is the thing... i don't consider myself an asshole, but just about everyone who knows me will quickly argue that... i'm as nice as can be- BUT- if you put me in a position where i have to do something i don't want to, you're going to hear about it... that's not ME being an asshole, that's YOU MAKING ME BE AN ASSHOLE... which makes YOU the asshole... which clears a lane for me to mash the throttle- which i WILL do, and because 'somebody' has to be the bad guy... fine.. i'm the bad guy..

much to my amazement- as this woman apologizes, i tell her "don't worry about it- it's all good... nobody got hurt.. but.. you're not welcome here anymore.".

i thought that would do it based off of her facial reaction.

turns out i was wrong.

she showed up tonight... i'm finishing off a cigar and a good bourbon while shooting the bull with a friend, and i hear the latch on the gate opening- i turn my head and witness this woman coming on through as if she's been doing it for years... this time? i was a little more forceful when i said to her (again) YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE... she stops and says, "okay, sorry"... and leaves...

i don't think she's done... i don't think her husband is either... a matter of fact, i think they'll both happen by at some point to 'talk things over'... at what point i go wide open throttle.. i've been nice twice- a rarity.. i've been 1/4 forceful in voice once... next time there will be physical demonstration of force. 

what in the friggin' world is wrong with people? seriously? AND THEY LIVE WITHIN 200 YARDS OF US??? they've been there for six months... and here is the thing i find really unsettling: I truly believe, and i'm damn good about reading people usually, that her 'husband' (can he really be her husband by any other reason but law if he pawns her out like that?) sets her out to hunt.. obviously this woman is into this 'upside down pineapple' thing, but... i get the idea and i believe it well founded that HE sets her out to target and hunt potential participants...

live and let live is my forever mantra- so long as you aren't breaking the law or screwing someone else over, have at it.  but... go to vegas or somewhere they have meet ups for that kind of thing... in the neighborhood you live? WTH is wrong with people?

so.... i don't share stuff like this in person... so i vent here- right here in the SoC thread... what a friggin' mess.  funny, yeah... but there is a weird vibe i get from it i don't like... like i may hear from these people at a strange time or place... goes to that old "a woman scorned" thing... which i've long determined is accurate.

what y'all think?
Had a similar experience a while back, about the time me and Mrs. 847 were newly married. It was hard to make it go away, and the male was a client. So, I lost that client. But I'll tell ya, his wife was smokin' hot. That I remember well. Very uncomfortable position to be in though. Still kind of creeps me out.


Keep your gun and ammo handy. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 16, 2020, 07:06:01 AM
https://twitter.com/BadgerFootball/status/1261340568703115266 (https://twitter.com/BadgerFootball/status/1261340568703115266)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 16, 2020, 08:52:17 AM
I live a rather boring life.  Not much happens, which is OK with me.  The virus thing happened and disrupted stuff of course.  I hang out here, we go for a walk, I try and exercise some, I drink too much at night, I read a fair bit, sometimes we invite the neighbor for dinner, our pool is closed, they can't get it inspected, nobody asks me about pineapples fortunately unless the wife tells me to pick up one at Kroger ...

I suspect CFB this year is going to be very strange, hopefully they do play.  I do miss baseball a bit.  We have no word on fantasy camp, a lot of us are worried about that of course.  I told the wife if we have to be stuck somewhere,  this is a good place to be stuck.  The weather is great though warming up now, we have a lot of space nearby, a few restaurants have opened now, we've been to one (dined outside).

The liquor store is closeby and Costco is not far away.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 16, 2020, 09:39:02 AM
Had a similar experience a while back, about the time me and Mrs. 847 were newly married. It was hard to make it go away, and the male was a client. So, I lost that client. But I'll tell ya, his wife was smokin' hot. That I remember well. Very uncomfortable position to be in though. Still kind of creeps me out.


Keep your gun and ammo handy. :)
hah, that was my first question for Drew - apparently the strange woman was NOT smokin hot
folks are crazy when it comes to sexual fetishes.
I live in small towns and surrounded by more small towns - folks are crazy to try to get this done in their own small town - but it obviously happens
upside down pineapple huh?  Since I'm single, perhaps I''l put a pineapple in my grocery cart while I shop.  might be entertaining
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 16, 2020, 09:44:58 AM
I went to the grocery yesterday after work

bought another pack of toilet paper, I guess the crisis is over

I wasn't wearing a mask.  I'd guess I was in the majority.  Maybe 60/40

apparently if you do not talk to anyone the virus can't be transmitted, cause no one says anything

I assumed if the area became a hotspot, folks would hunker down and show respect for the virus.

I saw a stat that put my area right behind NYC for infections per capita.  Maybe top 5 in the country.

I'm much less vigilant about washing my hands now than I was back in April.  Drove by the Old Chicago and the parking lot was full.  Friday was the first day they could have dine -in.  50% seating

I felt like stopping for a beer, but assumed I would not get a seat.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 16, 2020, 10:21:27 AM
I try and wash my hands any time I return to the condo, been doing this since we moved here.  My idea is to avoid maybe one cold a year, maybe the flu every few years, maybe some GI distress twice a year perhaps.  I usually wash twice now, and use warm water, fortunately that half bath gets hot water very quickly.

I wear a mask if I'm in an area where distancing is not a sure thing, like a store.  It's to protect them, not me.

We're about to go to brunch, dining outside at Cafe Intermezzo.  It's quite sunny today, trending to be warm.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 16, 2020, 11:02:55 AM
going to Miles Inn for take-out Charlie Boy sammiches

I have Bud Heavy iced in the cooler

then to the golf course to play in the rain!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 16, 2020, 01:51:14 PM
We had a nice brunch and then walked 3.5 miles through town and then the residential area.  A LOT of people are out.  The residential area has small parks embedded in it and I've never seen so many people out.  The big park looks crowded today, about normal for weekend where the weather is this nice.  It's getting warm.  I turned on the AC.

There are some monster houses in that subdivision, which dates to about 1915.  The wife was admiring this one and thought it was apartments and I told her "No, it's single family".  The photo doesn't do it justice at all.  The electric wires are ugly.

(https://i.imgur.com/s19f3Qz.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on May 16, 2020, 02:22:53 PM
Every single nursery is absolutely slammed here today.  I didn't see anyone without a mask.  Everyone was abiding as best as possible to the rules.  It gives me hope that people can do that, but this is Day 1 here, so we'll see.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 16, 2020, 02:32:07 PM
Masks are pretty common here.  I don't wear one walking around in the open.  A lot of folks do, I see folks jogging with them on.  I noticed today most of the constructions workers have forgone masks.  A few have the bandana thing going, it's getting warm.  The sites are very active today, lots going on.  We chatted with one guy who looked like maybe a super at one site.  He was telling us that one of their crane operators was half way up one crane this morning when they called him down to go up another crane to move something, and then go back to "his" crane.  He said the guy was early 20s.  These cranes are 40 stories high, and they climb the stairs to get to the cabins (which are air conditioned).  That site has four large cranes semi-permanent.  It covers a city block, condos, apts, offices, mixed use.  I do wonder if that market is collapsing and when it will recover, if ever.  This is from a few weeks back, it's amazing to watch.


(https://i.imgur.com/W1T7Klp.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on May 16, 2020, 03:48:32 PM
The Mrs. and I have been wearing masks entirely in public. Most folks here in the Twin Cities are wearing them and doing what they can to mind their distance, with a few exceptions. A guy at Costco this morning tried to get short with the staff when they refused him entry for not wearing a face covering. The staff didn't have any time for him and sent him on his way.

We've also worn them while biking. One unintended side benefit is that we no longer inhale bugs.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on May 16, 2020, 03:56:05 PM
We've also worn them while biking. One unintended side benefit is that we no longer inhale bugs.
Nebraska fans don't understand how that's a benefit.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 16, 2020, 05:59:47 PM
I wear a mask any time I'm out in "public", but don't consider walking the dog in the neighborhood to qualify. The foot traffic is so sparse and there's so much room to avoid other people that I don't think there's any need... I.e. if you're approaching someone on the sidewalk one of you could just start walking in the middle of the street with no risk as it's a residential area. 

If I lived in a city environment, I'd probably act differently. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 16, 2020, 06:07:59 PM
I live in an urban environment and I'm easily able to walk a distance away from others, and they do the same.  If the sidewalks were more typically crowded I would change that calculus.  The side walks are either wide enough or on side streets you don't have many people walking, and few cars, so you can step into the street easily enough.

We briefly waited in line to get into Whole Foods today before I said I don't really need anything and we left.  They were limiting shoppers to 60.  I was thinking of getting a nice steak.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 16, 2020, 06:10:19 PM
My wife did her grocery shopping on a Saturday for the first time in about 2 months. She'd been going mid-week to avoid crowds.

Apparently there was no line, delay, or apparent rush of people. So that was nice.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 16, 2020, 07:22:38 PM
I go early to Kroger, have no problems at all.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 16, 2020, 07:32:38 PM
I go early to Kroger, have no problems at all.
I use Krogers home delivery service and have had little problem
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 16, 2020, 08:05:18 PM
I went to the bar this morning expecting to get take out Charlie Boys and drink Bud out of my cooler

much to my surprise, we were allowed to sit at a table, not the bar, and eat our sammiches and drink draft schooners of beer

(https://i.imgur.com/wQA8RrQ.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/LV0CJ1Q.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/D3xEI8O.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on May 16, 2020, 09:08:49 PM
How do you get the pictures to embed? We made a killer pizza tonight and I'd love to show it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 16, 2020, 09:13:55 PM
I simply save it to my harddrive then drag & drop to the reply area
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 16, 2020, 09:26:36 PM
Cincy, did you say you are near or enjoy the "Joy Cafe"?

it's on triple D at the moment

looks good
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 16, 2020, 09:55:34 PM
so.... i don't share stuff like this in person... so i vent here- right here in the SoC thread... what a friggin' mess.  funny, yeah... but there is a weird vibe i get from it i don't like... like i may hear from these people at a strange time or place... goes to that old "a woman scorned" thing... which i've long determined is accurate.

what y'all think?
Keep your oil stones and fillet/chef's knife handy.As long as kids aren't around and the whack shows up.Start sharpening,then smirk while shrugging your shoulders.If you can laugh like like Scooby Doo and keep sharpening.Tell them your Butcher Brother in law is coming in from the Chicago Stock Yards and you want to impress him.Or simply fire up the chain saw and grab the hockey mask - don't forget the hockey mask
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 17, 2020, 08:26:21 AM
Cincy, did you say you are near or enjoy the "Joy Cafe"?

it's on triple D at the moment

looks good
Yes, about 2 blocks away from there.  Had one experience there, was not good, haven't gone back, probably should ...

Maybe I should not have jumped for Joy ...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 17, 2020, 08:55:15 AM
that's what I thought I remembered

watching the episode, Guy wasn't as upbeat as sometimes when he really is impressed - perhaps it's simply good, not great
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 17, 2020, 09:04:21 AM
I imagine it is typically fine, it attracts crowds and has outdoor seating.  The menu looks fine, but I doubt it is exceptional/can't miss.

If folks visit us, it would not be on the list of places to take them except maybe lunch, maybe, had we now had a bad experience.

There are some "unique" places around that have a more interesting twist than just serving decent food.  I'd guess there are 100 places in walking distances of our condo.  And some list of top 50 places in the metro area came out and we've tried 5.

I liked that list more than most because it included some dives and BBQ places, it wasn't just a list of all the expensive places in town.  Our problem is we have some favorites we go back to and that cuts down on trying new places, which is mostly irrelevant at the moment.

There is a hotel downtown in the Candler Building which recently was restored as a hotel built in ca. 1910 with a French kind of restaurant called By George in it I'd like to try, the photos look pretty neat.  I like old buildings.  They opened less than a year ago, so they are getting hurt.  The Empire State South restaurant is 3 blocks from us, they have a very nice patio/grass area outside.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candler_Building_(Atlanta) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candler_Building_(Atlanta))

https://www.nps.gov/nr/travel/atlanta/can.htm (https://www.nps.gov/nr/travel/atlanta/can.htm)

https://atlanta.eater.com/2019/10/2/20894811/hugh-acheson-by-george-restaurant-opening-october-2019-downtown-atlanta (https://atlanta.eater.com/2019/10/2/20894811/hugh-acheson-by-george-restaurant-opening-october-2019-downtown-atlanta)

Empire State South (https://atlanta.eater.com/venue/empire-state-south) owner chef Hugh Acheson opens his downtown French restaurant By George (https://atlanta.eater.com/2019/6/20/18692882/hugh-achenson-opening-by-george-french-restaurant-downtown-atlanta) on Wednesday, October 23 (https://www.instagram.com/p/B3FnXPSJDYc/), inside the historic Candler building, now a boutique hotel owned by Hilton on Peachtree Street.
Located on the first floor in what was once home to Central Bank and Trust, By George serves breakfast, lunch, and dinner and provides space to sip tea, coffee, and champagne with caviar service throughout the day. As with Acheson’s other restaurants, beverage director Kellie Thorn and sommelier Steven Grubbs are both on board to create the cocktail menu and mostly French wine list for the restaurant.
Lead by chef Ian Quinn (C. Ellet’s Steakhouse (https://www.c-ellets.com/)), Acheson’s “French-inspired” menu should include a few recognizable classics such as terrine of foie gras served with brioche and seasonal fruit, steak Diane and frites, escargot, and pomme dauphin (crisp potato puffs) as well as dishes with a slight Southern accent, like a catfish quenelle with nantua sauce and a Georgia trout.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 17, 2020, 09:06:59 AM
@Drew4UTk (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1) 

Yeah, that couple sounds weird.  Not for their fetishes which I won't judge, but for the lady's pushiness.  I've been approached a couple of different times over the years by swingers, and I've politely declined, and that was that.  

I know you're capable of protecting yourself, and I'd say, keep a wary eye out.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 17, 2020, 09:07:56 AM
if some of your favorites are closed, that could help with experimentation 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 17, 2020, 09:09:15 AM
The place we go most often just reopened.  We've been twice, I've left hefty tips.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 17, 2020, 09:13:27 AM
watching the Champs sports bowl - Badgers / Canes
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 17, 2020, 10:48:49 AM
@Drew4UTk (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1)

Yeah, that couple sounds weird.  Not for their fetishes which I won't judge, but for the lady's pushiness.  I've been approached a couple of different times over the years by swingers, and I've politely declined, and that was that. 

I know you're capable of protecting yourself, and I'd say, keep a wary eye out. 
yeah i have a weird foreboding feel about the whole thing.  i'd rather just go on living the way i want to live and let folks live the way they want to live- hoping if they intersect the regard is mutual... i don't get people who want to force their notions and practices on folks who politely decline. 

i'll tell this story quickly- it's relevant and it's funny (if i can tell it right)... 

I had a tobacco shoppe in greenville nc once, across the street from the ECU stadium.  THAT was a fun job that introduced me to folks of ALL walks of life.  I had a blast doing it.  I also sold cigarettes at wholesale prices with intent to sell bulk to other retailers, but folks figured it out and would come in for a few packs or a carton just as often as I sold cigars or pipes/pipe tobacco.. no, it wasn't a 'head' shop- it was a men's gift and cigar shop... finer wines, craft beers, ect... 

so this lady drove something strange- i can't recall what it was but it was unique and a mess... she would come in, and was always dressed like a sixties flower child gone wrong is the better way to describe it.  after a couple visits i knew what she wanted, so when i saw her pull up i would retrieve it for her and have it at the counter ready to go... at first she was distant and strange... after a while she was chipper, engaging, funny, and i actually looked forward to seeing her. 

she was well known in the community.  people thought her strange- dangerous- weird- and they literally thought she was a witch.  when others were in the shop and she'd come in they'd hush and stare... she wouldn't even notice them.  i was told "she's trying to cast a spell on you!!! she's NOT that nice to anyone!!!"

so.. i asked her one day... "why are folks so stand off from you?".... she laughed and laughed and told me this: She was being overrun by bible toting door to door prophets of some sort... every day they'd come by... then, the kids living around her were always messing around in her garden or playing pranks... it was irritating her.  she said one day she went to a flea market and some lady was there selling strange metal creations- art of some sort- that was to be hung akin to a wind chime......had an 'occult' type style to them... so... she bought some and hung them up in her garden thinking it would keep the birds off her berries.  ... then she noticed the bible toters were wary of those things, and started looking at her strangely- their visits started declining.... then, she found this so valuable she started hanging all kinds of crap around the place.. from hubcaps to whatever she found in her garage or barn that she was capable of suspending from trees... apparently (i never saw it) it was quite the spectacle.  

and... she was just as normal a person as you could ask for except for this practice... she did it so people would leave her alone... and it worked... spectacularly.  she said everyone left her alone.. to the point a couple of ladies she used to walk with who still walk together will be coming down the street talking and laughing loudly just to stop any noise abruptly as they pass, and to start again as soon as they've cleared her property... the mail lady delivering packages will sit at end of driveway and honk the horn until she responds and will quickly drive away after she sees her coming to retrieve it.. 

and....

her plan isn't and wasn't a bad one.  she just might have taken it too far, but.... it worked.   
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 17, 2020, 11:36:59 AM
witches are people too
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 17, 2020, 01:18:56 PM
headed to the golf course for a few beers

crap weather, but it gets me out of the house

55 degrees, 20 mph wind, I think the rain is over

FORE!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 17, 2020, 01:28:44 PM
headed to the golf course for a few beers

crap weather, but it gets me out of the house

55 degrees, 20 mph wind, I think the rain is over

FORE!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltKECU5t_fY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltKECU5t_fY)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 18, 2020, 02:19:27 PM
it wasn't quite that bad

no lightning to speak of...........

it was not pleasant, but there was drinking
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 18, 2020, 02:19:54 PM
When LSU routed Clemson and raised the College Football Playoff trophy on Jan. 13, it not only claimed its third national championship of the 21st century, but it also finished crafting an argument as one of the most dominant teams of all time.

So how do Joe Burrow and the 2019 Tigers stack up?

The Athletic sought to rank the 25 most dominant college football teams of the past 50 years. As is common in this sport, it’s a subjective ranking, but the goal was to evaluate many objective measures to narrow the list of contenders and compare them to each other. The emphasis is on the word dominant, and ranking 25 teams leaves out more than half of the national champions since 1970, along with numerous other great teams.

First, the pool of possible candidates was narrowed to consider only teams that met one of three criteria:

All national champions (59 teams, including split champions)

All other AP top-five teams that finished with perfect...


https://theathletic.com/1810857/2020/05/18/college-football-25-most-dominant-teams-50-years/ (https://theathletic.com/1810857/2020/05/18/college-football-25-most-dominant-teams-50-years/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 18, 2020, 06:48:51 PM
That article is behind a paywall, Fearless.  Want to copy and paste it?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 18, 2020, 06:59:03 PM
sorry, I didn't open it this morning and got busy at work.

I just saw this link on the Huskerpedia page...............

The Athletic* has the 1995 Huskers No. 1 and 1971 Nebraska No. 3 in a ranking of the most dominant college football teams of the past 50 years. And the 1997 team is No. 22.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 18, 2020, 07:05:31 PM
Well, 3 down, 22 to go.

Maybe somebody here subscribes to The Athletic.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 18, 2020, 11:15:36 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/q2kU6pN.png)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 18, 2020, 11:15:59 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/MjEHDoB.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 19, 2020, 01:10:58 PM
Enjoying the 94 RB on BTN.  Quick replay, with plays only, no down time.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2020, 01:47:40 PM
I enjoyed that Rose Bowl too.

The play where Bevell scored his TD on the ground took about 15 minutes in real time.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 19, 2020, 04:58:39 PM
My favorite UW RB was Dayne rolling over UCLA.  The one vs Stanford was meh.  This past one with Oregon was fun to watch, too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on May 19, 2020, 06:20:34 PM
My favorite UW RB was Dayne rolling over UCLA.  The one vs Stanford was meh.  This past one with Oregon was fun to watch, too.
There's a place where you can go and it's straight to hell. 

(Kidding, mostly. That said, UW's four Rose Bowl losses of this decade have all been competitive and interesting. Even the one when UW was totally outgunned and had a gimpy old guy at QB)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 19, 2020, 06:24:08 PM
I enjoyed the 2006 Rose Bowl the best.  Followed closely by the 2005 Rose Bowl.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 19, 2020, 06:26:47 PM
I hated the one in which TCU beat Wisconsin.  I think Badge has said that Brett outsmarted himself in that one.  I kept waiting for the Badgers to just mash the smallish TCU D-line, and they kept throwing the ball instead.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 19, 2020, 06:36:21 PM
I hated the one in which TCU beat Wisconsin.  I think Badge has said that Brett outsmarted himself in that one.  I kept waiting for the Badgers to just mash the smallish TCU D-line, and they kept throwing the ball instead.
HCs should always keep this in the back of their mind - your opponent may try to trick you into throwing more than you'd like, but they'll rarely (if ever) try to trick you into running the ball more than you want to.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on May 19, 2020, 07:21:44 PM
HCs should always keep this in the back of their mind - your opponent may try to trick you into throwing more than you'd like, but they'll rarely (if ever) try to trick you into running the ball more than you want to. 
In general, that is probably true but I definitely saw teams during the Holgorsen era try to bait him into running the ball.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on May 19, 2020, 08:13:04 PM
I hated the one in which TCU beat Wisconsin.  I think Badge has said that Brett outsmarted himself in that one.  I kept waiting for the Badgers to just mash the smallish TCU D-line, and they kept throwing the ball instead.
I did a rewatch on this at some point. This impression is ... well it reflects the way our memories get kind of selective. They ran their kind of normal offense more than you think. You had maybe a couple instances of throwing on early downs, but not many, and I think TCU went bear front and spilled everything well.

The game was weird because of a mess of reasons like it was short, UW short circuited like three drives and TCU was super efficent with its scoring chances and field position. TCU also made like 3-4 really nice last line of defense tackles and did enough to disrupt elements of the passing game. 

It's a very interesting rewatch. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on May 19, 2020, 08:18:50 PM
Enjoying the 94 RB on BTN.  Quick replay, with plays only, no down time.
I was at the Orange Bowl during the end of this RB.  Some guy had a tiny little TV with a long ass antenna, we watched DB stroll to the end zone.   Ucla had a few too many turnovers I recall. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on May 19, 2020, 08:23:11 PM
HCs should always keep this in the back of their mind - your opponent may try to trick you into throwing more than you'd like, but they'll rarely (if ever) try to trick you into running the ball more than you want to. 
They ran the ball like 68 percent of the time. 

They had some issues with not getting what you'd like out of play-action, and a set of pass pro problems. Also TCU just flat out made some plays, hard plays or smart ones beating blocks. I really want to find a copy of the coach's film from that one. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 19, 2020, 08:47:09 PM
I did a rewatch on this at some point. This impression is ... well it reflects the way our memories get kind of selective. They ran their kind of normal offense more than you think. You had maybe a couple instances of throwing on early downs, but not many, and I think TCU went bear front and spilled everything well.

The game was weird because of a mess of reasons like it was short, UW short circuited like three drives and TCU was super efficent with its scoring chances and field position. TCU also made like 3-4 really nice last line of defense tackles and did enough to disrupt elements of the passing game.

It's a very interesting rewatch.
I'm sure you're right about selective memories.  I'm probably remembering a handful of short-yardage plays where UW threw for it and failed.  I do remember at the end of the game wondering why they hadn't played "Wisconsin football" more and passed less.
I probably didn't give enough credit to TCU, but then I don't give much credit to TCU because I don't think TCU contributes much to the conference.  They've got a small following in the D/FW metroplex, which is already owned by other Big 12 teams (and to some degree Texas A&M).  I can think of other non-P5 programs I would have rather elevated to P5 status.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on May 19, 2020, 09:12:21 PM
I'm sure you're right about selective memories.  I'm probably remembering a handful of short-yardage plays where UW threw for it and failed.  I do remember at the end of the game wondering why they hadn't played "Wisconsin football" more and passed less.
I probably didn't give enough credit to TCU, but then I don't give much credit to TCU because I don't think TCU contributes much to the conference.  They've got a small following in the D/FW metroplex, which is already owned by other Big 12 teams (and to some degree Texas A&M).  I can think of other non-P5 programs I would have rather elevated to P5 status.
It's a game that kind of feeds into that because it was decided by all the weird plays on the margins and a second half that saw UW's offense pinned over and over and finally break through when it was backed against a wall. It's a tough game to get your hands around. I've watched it over like 3-4 times, and even then, it's tricky.

TCU is weird. At the time, it was without a doubt one of the best candidates to elevate from a success standpoint, and after arriving have been fifth in the conference in terms of wins, a game behind K-State and 2.5 behind Baylor. But if you wanted something from a conference footprint side, never really worked. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 19, 2020, 09:40:10 PM
There are better, bigger public university options in TX.  And with CU leaving, not exactly any realistic footprint-expansion options at all.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 19, 2020, 10:05:33 PM
Arkansas
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 19, 2020, 10:20:46 PM
Losing Nebraska, ATM, Colorado, and Mizzou definitely hurt.  There were no schools good enough to fully replace any of them that made geographic sense.  WVU makes sense from the perspective of history, competitiveness, and fire-up fan-base, but not geographically.

As Fearless said, Arkansas could have been a target for a replacement school.  And maybe it was.  It certainly was the best maybe-possibility.  But at the time, the Big 12 looked like it was on life-support (and maybe it still is, although it doesn't feel like it).  There was not much with which to tempt the Hogs, who had left the SWC for their own reasons, and some of those reasons perhaps would have still been present.  SEC money and prestige were strong inducements for Arkansas to stay put.

Colorado State might have been an option.  Maybe 5-10 years earlier, when Sonny Lubick had the Rams really going it would have been a better one.

New Mexico might have been an option.  Albuquerque is the biggest city between the line OKC-D/FW-San Antonio and Phoenix.  New Mexico is not really a football-crazy state, though.

Once WVU came in, I thought it might be good to invite Cincinnati and Louisville.  That way, WVU could have a couple of semi-close (at least in the same time zone) neighbors.

Taking in TCU was an act of desperation.

Somewhere out there, SunDevilFroggy is not happy right now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 19, 2020, 10:22:53 PM
I hated the one in which TCU beat Wisconsin.  I think Badge has said that Brett outsmarted himself in that one.  I kept waiting for the Badgers to just mash the smallish TCU D-line, and they kept throwing the ball instead.
Gawd that was hard to watch the last 6 minutes.UW grinding it out but BB not having the good sense to go to the HUNH.There were 4 of us screaming at the TV.Under a minute I think BB heard us and everyone else in the galaxy.IMO PC or BA win that one,maybe even GA.Ball and Clay were moving the sticks BB never seemed to step on the gas.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 19, 2020, 10:48:40 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYV2D8lXkAASZRu.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on May 19, 2020, 11:57:22 PM
Gawd that was hard to watch the last 6 minutes.UW grinding it out but BB not having the good sense to go to the HUNH.There were 4 of us screaming at the TV.Under a minute I think BB heard us and everyone else in the galaxy.IMO PC or BA win that one,maybe even GA.Ball and Clay were moving the sticks BB never seemed to step on the gas.
I don't know HUNH was gonna help that much. 

They got the ball with like 7:30 to go. So getting score-stop-score is gonna be real tricky. So they played to get the 8 and not leave too much time on the clock for the better QB against a not-great defense. In truth, that game was lost earlier in the half and even before then. UW had first down on the TCU 15, 1, 29, 30, 41 and 8 and got 19 points out of it (one was at the end of a half, where the HUNH would've helped more).

It's interesting looking back because in that game, UW had the better line, better backs, better pass catchers, but TCU had a notably better QB (plus a very good OC) and the better defense. Wouldn't have mattered if UW cashed in a bit better, but is what it is.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 20, 2020, 12:01:27 AM
If Arkansas left to the BigXII, at least they'd matter a little.  That dumpster fire's been ragin' a good, long while now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on May 20, 2020, 01:22:40 AM
If Arkansas left to the BigXII, at least they'd matter a little.  That dumpster fire's been ragin' a good, long while now.
Christ, has it really been 8 seasons since that top-5 finish?

It's been weird. Bert came in, turned them around well, but he had a couple strong teams that had close game bad luck and were pounded down by that division. And then the bottom fell out Bert's last year, after they decided 7-6/8-5 was already not good enough, and they went and hired an ideal candidate and it was one of the worst football products out their. 

Weird times. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 20, 2020, 01:32:52 AM
The HUNH would have gave them breathing room IMO the last few minutes that watched precious seconds spent by BB like he had a reset button.TCU's Defense stepped up but seemed to get assists from "W".I remember commenting on the other board SOC thread
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on May 20, 2020, 01:55:46 AM
The HUNH would have gave them breathing room IMO the last few minutes that watched precious seconds spent by BB like he had a reset button.TCU's Defense stepped up but seemed to get assists from "W".I remember commenting on the other board SOC thread
How do you mean breathing room? Like in terms of giving TCU the ball back with 3 or 4 minutes instead of 2?

(I don't remember what I wrote on the board that night. I know it was gone by the time I got up and it definitely deserved to be gone)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 20, 2020, 03:37:47 PM
I'd be cool with playing Arkansas annually again.  Don't think they'd leave the SEC though.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 20, 2020, 03:59:22 PM
Dude, even Rutgers wants to play Arkansas, get in line.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 20, 2020, 04:09:08 PM
How do you mean breathing room? Like in terms of giving TCU the ball back with 3 or 4 minutes instead of 2?

(I don't remember what I wrote on the board that night. I know it was gone by the time I got up and it definitely deserved to be gone)
More opportunities to punch the pigskin in.Ya I'm a Conference fan but if I remember right UW had more yds Off by quite a bit.LoL,Did you twist off after the aggrevation and Bourbon.Speeding things up would have kept their substitutions to a minimum also - just my .02
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 20, 2020, 04:11:50 PM
We've actually got the pigs on the schedule for 2021 .  It's the return game of a home-and-home from 2008 but for various reasons Arkansas had to push it out multiple times.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 20, 2020, 04:14:56 PM
We've actually got the pigs on the schedule for 2021 .  It's the return game of a home-and-home from 2008 but for various reasons Arkansas had to push it out multiple times.
They'll be sorry about that. They were much better back then.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 20, 2020, 04:24:17 PM
My running is picking up a bit, I made a mile plus today, albeit at a slow pace.  I still do the sprint-walk routine as well.  It was pretty cool today, overcast and a bit chilly, rain last night.  The wife has been very encouraging with my piano playing, which is nice.  It's coming along, I can actually tell which piece I'm playing now.  I always liked Chopin a lot, and still do.

We are flat out of vodka and gin, the wife is out somewhere for something, I forget what.  I bought some grapefruit juice which resulted in the remaining vodka's disappearance.  There is one Costco north of us that has a liquor store, but when I went, I didn't think the prices were anything special, whereas their wine is cheap as dirt.

I am spending quite a bit of time on line trying to understand this pandemic and what possibilities exist in the near future.  It's a real muddle.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 20, 2020, 04:24:50 PM
They'll be sorry about that. They were much better back then.

Yeah but they'd have been playing us in 2009.  They were 8-5 that season and Texas was 13-0 until the national championship game.  It might have been closer than the 52-10 result from the previous season's game in Austin, but not by a lot.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on May 20, 2020, 08:40:24 PM
More opportunities to punch the pigskin in.Ya I'm a Conference fan but if I remember right UW had more yds Off by quite a bit.LoL,Did you twist off after the aggrevation and Bourbon.Speeding things up would have kept their substitutions to a minimum also - just my .02
It was probably a push at the 7 minute mark. Maybe it helps, maybe it hurts, but faster or slower wasn't making too much difference, when you map it out. But I do also completely understand that sense of "Do Something!" you get in the midst of that game.

UW had more yards, but got outgained by nearly half a yard per play and kept blowing chances. UW had six drive of 50 yards or more in eight tries, but managed only four scores, two TDs. TCU had four drives longer than 22, three longer than 41, but all went for TDs, and that was a big difference. I'm still mad UW's best WR with really good hands dropped a ball on the first drive that would've made it 1st and G at the 3. Grrr.

Leading into the game, there had been a lot of talk about how UW was gonna smash a tiny mid-major. And I'd been arguing against it. It had gotten sorta spicy. I went to a bar with a couple coworkers and got drunk as a skunk and came home mad and hammered and with the feeling that I was right and not happy about it. So I fired off some typo-filled profanity. It was unbecoming.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 21, 2020, 08:00:57 AM
It was probably a push at the 7 minute mark. Maybe it helps, maybe it hurts, but faster or slower wasn't making too much difference, when you map it out. But I do also completely understand that sense of "Do Something!" you get in the midst of that game.

UW had more yards, but got outgained by nearly half a yard per play and kept blowing chances. UW had six drive of 50 yards or more in eight tries, but managed only four scores, two TDs. TCU had four drives longer than 22, three longer than 41, but all went for TDs, and that was a big difference. I'm still mad UW's best WR with really good hands dropped a ball on the first drive that would've made it 1st and G at the 3. Grrr.

Leading into the game, there had been a lot of talk about how UW was gonna smash a tiny mid-major. And I'd been arguing against it. It had gotten sorta spicy. I went to a bar with a couple coworkers and got drunk as a skunk and came home mad and hammered and with the feeling that I was right and not happy about it. So I fired off some typo-filled profanity. It was unbecoming.
It was awesome.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 21, 2020, 08:13:06 AM
It was 53°F when I hot up, overcast, and freezing cold.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 21, 2020, 09:42:10 AM
Leading into the game, there had been a lot of talk about how UW was gonna smash a tiny mid-major. And I'd been arguing against it. It had gotten sorta spicy. I went to a bar with a couple coworkers and got drunk as a skunk and came home mad and hammered and with the feeling that I was right and not happy about it. So I fired off some typo-filled profanity. It was unbecoming.
I thought Badger fans were professionals. You should have been able to avoid typos. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 21, 2020, 10:13:01 AM
Aunt Becky is going to jail. Heh.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 21, 2020, 01:25:12 PM
She still fine, doe.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 21, 2020, 01:56:50 PM
So, what's everyone up to this year?

It's a big one for us as Mrs. 847 is retiring in March.

We just got back from Cabo, and we'll head to Florida next month, for a week.

Then, in March (after the retirement), we head to Lima, Peru to hop on a cruise ship. It will make its way to Miami, via the Panama Canal (that the USA built and Carter gave away). This has been on my list for a long time, so I'm really excited.

We'll probably end up buying a home in Florida this year.



I just want to blame Badge "for all this S" for starting this thread back in January in a whole different time zone from today ...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 21, 2020, 02:17:03 PM
I'll take the blame for the Wuhon Super Flu. Why not.

Certainly did a number on my plans, that's for sure. Europe is out this Fall too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 21, 2020, 02:21:18 PM
We did another 3+ mile walk including into the botanical garden.  The weather was quite cool in the shade and getting hot in the sun.  Got Thai takeout we ate in the park.

I had Rendang Beef or something like that, was tasty.  

There is a nice lady who operates the gate into parking at the botanical garden we always chat with, she was busy today.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 21, 2020, 02:43:30 PM
I'm going to take a dip in the pool after work today. It's 91 here, right now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 21, 2020, 03:00:22 PM
90 here right now, I joined the kids in the pool for a bit at lunchtime.  They're still in school though and still have some assignments, so they don't get to screw off all day long.  Not yet anyway.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 21, 2020, 03:02:03 PM
were a cool 87 in Houston 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 21, 2020, 03:05:18 PM
71 and sunny.....finally
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on May 21, 2020, 03:14:06 PM
It was awesome.
The best part was the next day, after really going all out in front of coworker and maybe a boss, I went to the same bar with the same people, who kept saying "Oh, just a coke for you today? No beer?" with big shit-eating grins. 

That's when I knew that even without knowing much else, these were good people to be around. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on May 21, 2020, 03:15:13 PM
79 this way. Was supposed to rain the rest of the week, but now it looks like that won't happen until Saturday.

There's a joke to be made about "experts" in there. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 21, 2020, 03:18:22 PM
Just signed out for the year.  I'm free until the last week of July.  Not sure if/when I'm visiting family in FL/GA this summer.  Not sure what school is going to look like, come August 1.  


Anyway, orders for Whoa Nellie have picked up, so back to the grind with that...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 21, 2020, 03:22:12 PM
The weather here is pleasant as usual.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 21, 2020, 03:49:28 PM
were a cool 87 in Houston
I didn't know it ever got that cool in Houston.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 21, 2020, 04:03:34 PM
I didn't know it ever got that cool in Houston.
for all those wishing to move here thats correct
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 21, 2020, 04:12:00 PM
we are ALL moving to Austin

north Austin near Utee!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 21, 2020, 04:28:22 PM
The weather here is pleasant as usual.
Way too cold for me, thanks anyway. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 21, 2020, 05:37:42 PM
If Universities Had Flags - B1G Edition: https://imgur.com/gallery/MOxbBvg (https://imgur.com/gallery/MOxbBvg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 21, 2020, 11:16:48 PM
If Universities Had Flags - B1G Edition: https://imgur.com/gallery/MOxbBvg (https://imgur.com/gallery/MOxbBvg)
For Wisconsin, if those crossed sabers were gold instead of red, they'd be the insignia of the U.S. Cavalry.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41WwPU7FM5L._AC_SX425_.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 22, 2020, 01:31:53 AM
2020 Kentucky Derby at Home: All Triple Crown Winners Compete in Simulation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgP1I6VChg8)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 22, 2020, 02:23:57 PM
Popular Mechanics
How Much Water Does It Take to Knock Out the Sears Tower?
Chicago's iconic skyscraper is in terrifying darkness. Here's what sapped its power.
BY CAROLINE DELBERT
MAY 20, 2020

(https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/eybx1mpx0ae-dzq-1590006071.jpeg?crop=0.724xw:0.543xh;0.105xw,0.0561xh&resize=768:*)
TWITTER/LWILZ


Chicagoans took to Twitter last night with dramatic photos after the city's iconic Sears Tower—err, Willis Tower—lost power. In these images, the skyscraper looms like Christian Bale's Batman over an unbothered city.



Quote
Sᴀʟᴀᴍɪ
@topspittinwraps
Everyone realizing that the sears tower has a face is the only comedic thing that has happened this year

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYc1Mj3WsAAal8y?format=jpg&name=small)

4:19 AM · May 20, 2020
2.8K
573 people are talking about this


Quote
Julie Elizabeth
@CubsGirl10
It looks like Gotham tonight. And it’s extra creepy with the Sears Tower totally dark. #Chicago #Skyline

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYbQMLpWsAI9o6c?format=jpg&name=small)

8:58 PM · May 19, 2020
1.8K
393 people are talking about this

But how can the power go out for just one tiny part of the city, and how is the Sears Tower powered in the first place?

Heavy rain gets into the ground and causes electric wiring to, well, go haywire. There are multiple reasons why that can happen. If there are even micro-small flaws in the insulation or connections within a system, water can and will short the system out.

That’s because as soon as conductive water touches the wire, the current is drawn in that direction. When there’s more than one exposed spot, the water can form a circuit—a short circuit.

Over time, repeated exposure to flood waters can cause corrosion and other kinds of damage. And because of the danger to workers and others on the premises, utilities are carefully slow to turn power back on to affected buildings. If every flood represents a new wash of potential damage to the system, every switch-on after a flood involves a new and different amount of risk.

The National Electrical Manufacturers Association recommends all flooded electrical equipment be at least spot checked. In an industry guide to assessing water damage, the organization explains:

Quote
“Reductions in integrity of electrical insulation due to moisture, debris lodged in the equipment components, and other factors, can damage electrical equipment by affecting the ability of the equipment to perform its intended function. Damage to electrical equipment can also result from flood waters contaminated with chemicals, sewage, oil, and other debris that will affect the integrity and performance of the equipment.”

This echoes similar water damage fears in everything from used cars (which you can try to sell following a flood, but good luck) to home interiors. And all of it is even worse when the flood is saltwater. Trying to safely and completely dry any of these things is really difficult and often leaves a stench, mold or mildew, corrosion, or some other demerit.

(https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/eyb1yzzxsaiiqbd-1590007161.jpeg?resize=320:*)
TWITTER/HERRING_NBA

In this case, local news reports: “The power was knocked out at Willis Tower early Monday morning after four feet of water flooded the building's electrical vault. Crews have been working to pump the water out of the building before ComEd can send a team inside to assess the damage.”

As for why the Sears Tower is affected when buildings around it look fine, there are explanations for that, too. The building weighs 440 million pounds and rests all the way down on the Illinois bedrock, with “enough steel to build 50,000 automobiles, and enough telephone wiring to wrap around the world 1.75 times,” PBS explains.

And there’s much more: “Within the building, there are 25 miles of plumbing, 1500 miles of electric wiring, 80 miles of elevator cable, 796 restroom faucets, and more than 145,000 light fixtures,” the official Skydeck website reports.

So a flood that affects the undergirdings of the Sears Tower could happen in any part of a huge area at the base of the building, and the massive amount of materials in the structure opens up a whole bunch of potential “attack surface” for rising waters. In this case, high rise buildings usually have dedicated transformer vaults, and trying to drain four feet of water out of an underground room is a Herculean task unto itself.

With different generations of neighboring buildings built over the nearly five decades since the Sears Tower opened, what affects one doesn’t affect them all. A shorter building with a different electrical structure could just not be affected.

In 2018, the Willis group said the building was at 95 percent occupancy. Few of the building’s tenants would be considered essential businesses, but Willis has closed the building entirely until it’s fully assessed and checked out. “The Chicago Fire Department and Commonwealth Edison (ComEd) have been on site through the night working to assess the situation,” the website says.

Anyone who’s tried to dry out a car or home interior has some idea of the task facing the firefighters and private workers trying to drain and dry this building. Besides sending in a flotilla of DampRid, battery-powered water pumps can pull out a lot and then industrial dehumidifiers can do the rest. After that, ComEd can think about turning the power back on.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 22, 2020, 02:27:29 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/LdQYSlm.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 22, 2020, 02:32:14 PM
I gotta get me one of those.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 22, 2020, 02:46:38 PM
Commentary from Rick Bayless:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-opinion-coronavirus-restaurants-rick-bayless-20200522-oi4s6powhzab5hg6dtgcngywhq-story.html (https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-opinion-coronavirus-restaurants-rick-bayless-20200522-oi4s6powhzab5hg6dtgcngywhq-story.html)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 22, 2020, 02:51:18 PM
Good Lord you and your Rick Bayless... :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 22, 2020, 02:58:35 PM
Commentary from Rick Bayless:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-opinion-coronavirus-restaurants-rick-bayless-20200522-oi4s6powhzab5hg6dtgcngywhq-story.html (https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-opinion-coronavirus-restaurants-rick-bayless-20200522-oi4s6powhzab5hg6dtgcngywhq-story.html)

Stupid paywall. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 22, 2020, 03:12:41 PM
Stupid paywall.
I’d like to give you a perspective from the trenches, what it’s like to be a chef and restaurateur right now in Chicago, during the coronavirus pandemic. Our four conjoined Clark Street restaurants — the ones we started in 1987 — are closed, of course, but two of them — Xoco and Frontera Grill — do takeout and delivery business. On a good day, we do about 30% of our regular volume. Most days, much less.

That’s what forced us to lay off over 150 people. Yeah, what makes the independent (especially chef-owned) restaurants unique and different from fast food is that we offer a handcrafted, labor-intensive experience that people seem to love. And the only way to do that is with lots of employees.

Most folks think that our employees are all working entry-level jobs. In our restaurants very few are. Most of our staff have had years of training from schools and other restaurants. Once they join us it takes months — sometimes years — of additional coaching for them to be able to offer the quality of experience everyone has come to expect from us. Far from easily replaceable cogs in a wheel, our staff is our greatest asset.

These folks, many of whom have worked with us for 20 years or more, don’t stay in the restaurant business because they want to get rich. They stay because of passion — because they love creating those memorable experiences that bring so many of you in day after day. They do it in spite of the fact that the dedication to their craft wouldn’t give them a fat savings account to weather this forced shutdown.

Neither is operating an independent restaurant a get-rich-quick scheme. That too is a passion project. Just think about this bold fact. When you spend a dollar in a restaurant, 95 cents of it goes to pay our staff, our huge network of suppliers, our landlords, our city, state and federal taxes, and on and on. Five cents on the dollar profit is pretty slim pickings. We are a $1 trillion industry — the second largest in the country — so if restaurants collapse, we’re taking down a lot of other people with us.

Every day, I read of another handful of independent restaurants that will not be reopening (https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-coronavirus-chicago-restaurant-future-0503-20200501-hcbnghirvraihasihfb7xcoeoi-story.html). Most of us couldn’t use the Paycheck Protection Program funds to pay staff and rent while getting back on our feet — the eight weeks in which we had to use the forgivable loan came while we were closed. With fixed costs continuing to mount (https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-opinion-coronavirus-restaurants-illinois-phase-reopen-20200511-un67vo6uoffzzdprwfughcart4-story.html) and the prospect of drastically reduced capacity for months to come, many chefs and restaurateurs are thinking of just walking away. Walking away not only from the businesses that they’ve lovingly crafted, but the staffs in which they’ve invested so much.

That’s what has led independent restaurants to finally band together and have our voices heard. Just a short eight weeks ago, the Independent Restaurant Coalition was formed and has been heard from repeatedly on every major news outlet. Of the 10 places at President Donald Trump’s recent restaurant summit (https://www.eater.com/2020/5/19/21263820/trump-white-house-meets-restaurant-industry-executives-discuss-ppp-funds-relief-efforts), three were filled by our members.

Independent restaurants are the heartbeat of neighborhoods. They provide welcoming smiles and places to gather. They come through with auction items for the school fundraiser or sponsor the Little League team. Unlike chain places, your favorite spots have sprouted from uniquely neighborhood soil. Not to take care of them would be shortsighted and foolhardy.

lifeline arrived this week (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/voraciously/wp/2020/05/20/help-for-battered-restaurants-could-be-on-the-way-as-house-considers-new-bills/) in the form of a restaurant stabilization bill, a $120 billion federal grant program called the Real Economic Support That Acknowledges Unique Restaurant Assistance Needed to Survive Act of 2020, or simply, the Restaurants Act, designed to help independent restaurants deal with the long-term structural challenges facing the industry due to COVID-19.

The plan, unveiled by Rep. Earl Blumenauer, D-Ore., would provide grant values to cover the difference between revenues from 2019 and projected revenues through 2020. It also would exclude publicly traded companies or chains with more than 20 locations, ensuring the relief gets to the restaurant operators who need it most.

We are hopeful that leaders at the local and national level will champion our cause, recognizing the nation’s 500,000 independent restaurants employ — or more accurately, employed — 11 million Americans. We need the help: food and beverage jobs accounted for a staggering 27% of overall job losses in April, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, while just 8.9% of approved PPP loans went to the food service industry.



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on May 22, 2020, 06:09:48 PM
Stupid paywall.
Why did I not hit a paywall? This is weird.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 22, 2020, 07:34:27 PM
bwarb is using the California internet
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 22, 2020, 08:35:47 PM
I think I might have tennis elbow. 

I don't even play tennis. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 22, 2020, 10:03:09 PM
With Memorial Day coming up, the wife and I watched the movie "Taking Chance", again.  Kevin Bacon is great in it.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 22, 2020, 10:15:00 PM
I'm watching Diners as usual on Friday evening

Guy is great in it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 22, 2020, 10:58:42 PM
I got my check.  Hadn't checked my mailbox in awhile.  But I've done direct deposit on my taxes for the past 10 years, so...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on May 23, 2020, 12:50:11 AM
Kevin Bacon is the center of the Hollywood universe.

True story.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 23, 2020, 07:03:40 AM
Why is that?I know you'll find it hard to believe but I'm out of the loop there
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 23, 2020, 07:49:32 AM
As Mr Cub used to say, “There’s sunshine, fresh air, and the team’s behind us. Let’s play two.”

I'm off to the course.  First tee time 7:30am, 2nd tee time 12:30pm

good day to play 36!

FORE!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 23, 2020, 08:08:25 AM
Why did I not hit a paywall? This is weird.
The Trib allows 10 hits per month without paying. BWar is from Chicago, so he may have hit the 10 for the month.

I'm a paying customer, mostly for reading the John Kass column. Modern-day Mike Royko for me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 23, 2020, 08:57:19 AM
RE: Induction cooktops

Do these things work with Le Creuset cookware? Cast iron? Stainless?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 23, 2020, 09:03:48 AM
The work fine, I use the Creuset often on the cooktop.  You can sear as needed and then turn it down to simmer, if needed.

Anything iron works.

One nice thing is anything that boils over doesn't burn unless it touches the cookwear, the rest of the "burner" stays cool.  You can put a smaller pot on a larger burner and only the pot gets hot, it saves on AC also.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 23, 2020, 09:57:03 AM
Buying a Samsung today. 

All Samsung stuff, except the DW, which will be Bosch. Fridge, double oven, cooktop, hood, DW and W/D. 

Home Depot gonna like me later.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 23, 2020, 11:12:14 AM
With Memorial Day coming up, the wife and I watched the movie "Taking Chance", again.  Kevin Bacon is great in it.
I have only seen Kevin Bacon in a handful of movies, one of them being TremorsBlecchh!
But he is outstanding in Taking Chance.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 23, 2020, 11:15:34 AM
Why is that?I know you'll find it hard to believe but I'm out of the loop there
6 degrees of Kevin Bacon, maybe?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 23, 2020, 12:27:32 PM
I was happy they paid attention in that movie to things like when to salute, and not, etc., and when to be uncovered.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 23, 2020, 12:50:58 PM
Yes, it was done very well.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 23, 2020, 07:17:50 PM
6 degrees of Kevin Bacon, maybe?
Still haven't the foggiest,you preppy's and your tinsel town fixes
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 23, 2020, 07:54:59 PM
Still haven't the foggiest,you preppy's and your tinsel town fixes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Degrees_of_Kevin_Bacon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Degrees_of_Kevin_Bacon)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 24, 2020, 12:21:23 PM
headed to the grocery and then the golf course

been getting rain, hopefully the course will allow carts after noon

FORE!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 25, 2020, 11:55:04 AM
34 lbs of pork shoulder on the smoker today...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on May 25, 2020, 12:00:36 PM
That should get you at least six servings
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on May 25, 2020, 12:38:20 PM
34 lbs of pork shoulder on the smoker today...
What time should I be there?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 25, 2020, 02:21:12 PM
I just finished Stephen Ambrose's book about the transcontinental railroad.  Interesting, but I would have liked more detail about the construction and less about the principals involved.  It was a major change in transportation obviously in this country.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on May 25, 2020, 06:14:04 PM
One of my MSU acquaintances bought a boat and asked for MSU related name suggestions.  I said "Sloop John L", which only a narrow window of people who like 60s music and mid 2000s MSU football will get
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 25, 2020, 07:52:08 PM
One of my MSU acquaintances bought a boat and asked for MSU related name suggestions.  I said "Sloop John L", which only a narrow window of people who like 60s music and mid 2000s MSU football will get
It's gonna sink. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 25, 2020, 08:18:19 PM
I just finished Stephen Ambrose's book about the transcontinental railroad.  Interesting, but I would have liked more detail about the construction and less about the principals involved.  It was a major change in transportation obviously in this country.
I read that book--Nothing Like It in the World, yes?--about 15 years ago.  As I was going through it, I had the sense that I was reading things more than once, as if it had not been well-edited.  I think there was a lot of sloppiness about his latter books, between slipshod research and slipshod citing of research that others had done.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 25, 2020, 08:19:19 PM
One of my MSU acquaintances bought a boat and asked for MSU related name suggestions.  I said "Sloop John L", which only a narrow window of people who like 60s music and mid 2000s MSU football will get
I get it.
But does "John L" bring back good memories or bad ones?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 25, 2020, 08:25:48 PM
How about Saban's Stepstone?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 25, 2020, 09:02:24 PM
I read that book--Nothing Like It in the World, yes?--about 15 years ago.  As I was going through it, I had the sense that I was reading things more than once, as if it had not been well-edited.  I think there was a lot of sloppiness about his latter books, between slipshod research and slipshod citing of research that others had done.
Yeah, it was poorly edited, and had some mistakes, like how Lee found McClennan's orders before Sharpsburg, I read the twice to check it.

My least favorite book of his.  I skipped a fair bit of it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 26, 2020, 01:21:33 AM
If I hadn't been interested in railroading I don't think I would have finished it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 26, 2020, 07:22:28 AM
I paused a few times.  I got out maps on my iPad to help follow along the various impediments.  His other books are better written IMHO.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 26, 2020, 01:42:28 PM
I saw Ambrose host a discussion with Joseph Heller and Kurt Vonnegut on YouTube awhile back.

Heller said that he never met anyone in the USAAF that he didn't respect, and I wondered why then he wrote Catch-22 which makes the entire lot of them look like morons.

Vonnegut told the usual falsehoods about Dresden.

Ambrose didn't correct either one of them
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 27, 2020, 01:08:47 PM
Short video on the Palais du Versailles with almost no one there ...

https://www.francetvinfo.fr/sante/maladie/coronavirus/chateau-de-versailles-a-la-decouverte-d-un-palais-deserte-de-ses-visiteurs_3982259.html (https://www.francetvinfo.fr/sante/maladie/coronavirus/chateau-de-versailles-a-la-decouverte-d-un-palais-deserte-de-ses-visiteurs_3982259.html)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on May 27, 2020, 01:32:29 PM
I saw Ambrose host a discussion with Joseph Heller and Kurt Vonnegut on YouTube awhile back.

Heller said that he never met anyone in the USAAF that he didn't respect, and I wondered why then he wrote Catch-22 which makes the entire lot of them look like morons.

Vonnegut told the usual falsehoods about Dresden.

Ambrose didn't correct either one of them
Hell of a book, though. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 27, 2020, 04:14:10 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21X5lGlDOfg&fbclid=IwAR1UCSpS25DWqS_sWgWEYtmllvGvOtSUN5D1PPiBQNxctA6Z2dACWbnk8ME (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21X5lGlDOfg&fbclid=IwAR1UCSpS25DWqS_sWgWEYtmllvGvOtSUN5D1PPiBQNxctA6Z2dACWbnk8ME)

Weather in Florida is dicey, update coming shortly on whether to launch.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 27, 2020, 04:17:48 PM
Launch abort has started due to weather, they will not launch for a few more days.  This was a hard time launch.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 27, 2020, 05:06:00 PM
Launch abort has started due to weather, they will not launch for a few more days.  This was a hard time launch.
my understanding is that they were under a tornado warning

now that woulda been neat
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 27, 2020, 05:48:46 PM
There's a sliver in central FL that gets as many tornadoes as OK/KS.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on May 28, 2020, 01:52:55 AM
I need to locate it but Tornado Alley as it is described has seen more frequency of tornadoes encroaching further east relative to its traditional alley of NE, KS, OK, TX.  

I stumbled upon the chart when I was talking with some guys in New England that I talk to each week after having successive tornado warnings during our weekly call.

It wasn't some seismic shift, but it told me there are comparable #s of tornadoes in IN, IL, OH, TN, MS, AL
Recognizing there are a lot of ways to measure and evaluate the data.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 28, 2020, 03:11:10 AM
And that nature isn't static??
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 28, 2020, 07:51:59 AM
We had quite a few when I lived in Cincy, one was devastating in the suburbs, I was driving back through KY listening on the radio of the track and thought there was a decent chance my house was gone.  It missed us by about a mile.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 28, 2020, 08:14:12 AM
US deaths from virus down for 5th week in a row

I have not seen a 5 week steady decline in deaths in the news anywhere
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 28, 2020, 08:39:08 AM
US deaths from virus down for 5th week in a row

I have not seen a 5 week steady decline in deaths in the news anywhere
Too busy commemorating 100,000 deaths. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 28, 2020, 09:07:12 AM
The various sites show the appropriate graphs.  There isn't any magical about round numbers generally, but they do make news fodder.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on May 28, 2020, 04:06:54 PM
And that nature isn't static??
Of course not.  Just interesting to acknowledge that tornadoes are now more prevalent in higher population areas of Mississippi River and east than previously understood. 

I've seen 2 tornadoes in my life, at a distance and heard one which was much closer.   It is not a pleasant experience.   I take shelter immediately upon warnings.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 28, 2020, 04:11:08 PM
I saw a water spout off Kona in Hawaii near the airport once.  I was dropping off my kids.  It was impressive, all white.  That part of Hawaii hardly gets any rain, north of there they usually get rain one day out of the year, which makes for a nice vacation spot.  I was there for that one day and it was impressive.  A lot of folks had pulled off the highway instead of driving in what here would be a modest rain storm, but it got much worse as we neared Kona.

I wonder if tornadoes were more often reported in "Tornado alley" in the past because the land tends to be flatter and you can see further.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on May 28, 2020, 04:51:06 PM
Tornado tracking and warning systems have gotten so much better.   I think theres something to that.   The two I've seen are only because of the vantage I had, which was in Nebraska with unlimited line of sight.  Not possible in the heavily tree lined environment i grew up with in WI or where I am in IN, though don't need to go far here to find flat fields. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 28, 2020, 06:08:46 PM
I saw some water spouts on a cruise in the Bahamas.  I was in high school and didn't realize how far away they were.  It was scary initially....not immediate danger, but just the unfamiliarity with them.  No one was concerned, so I relaxed.


Plenty of experience with hurricanes, even in the eye.  That's the eeriest time of your life - blue skies in the dead center of a 600-mile wide hurricane.  No wind, no rain, for about 20 min.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 28, 2020, 06:13:35 PM
The distance thing is interesting to me.  Even as a 30 year old moving out to AZ, I had zero ability to estimate distance of mountains, as I'd spent my whole life in FL.  Two problems there - no mountains in the distance and no visible horizons, aside from the ocean.  The lack of mountains isn't as big as the fact that in inland FL, you can't see anything, surrounded by trees - you can only see up, not out.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on May 28, 2020, 11:19:37 PM
Watching this OSU Miami game for lots of memories. I was at this game with my brother and dad.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on May 28, 2020, 11:30:47 PM
Btw the amount of bonkers shit that happened to playersin this game.

MoC - went to prison for robbery
Will Smith - shot and killed after traffic accident
Sean Taylor - shot and killed during a home invasion
Kellen Winslow - in prison for rape
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 28, 2020, 11:57:25 PM
Watching this OSU Miami game for lots of memories. I was at this game with my brother and dad.
I was there too best game I ever saw.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 29, 2020, 07:30:47 AM
Btw the amount of bonkers shit that happened to players in this game.

Kellen Winslow - in prison for rape
Wow - even in Cleveland he came off as entitled but didn't see that coming,sheesh
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 29, 2020, 07:33:03 AM
I saw a water spout off Kona in Hawaii near the airport once. 
By any chance you weren't enjoying any Kona bud were you?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 29, 2020, 07:41:22 AM
By any chance you weren't enjoying any Kona bud were you?
Not at that moment, but we always go to their restaurant when we're there.  They have surprisingly good food at reasonable (for Hawaii) prices.

And beer, they have beer, but only one brand.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on May 29, 2020, 12:01:47 PM
I was there too best game I ever saw. 
Managed to get 2 tickets to that game. Ended up giving them to my parents as a Christmas gift. Would love to have been there, but the excitement of my father being a life long Ohio state fan was worth giving them to him. He use to sell newspapers out in front of the stadium as a kid. He has been dead for a number of years now, but his Ohio State room with all his mementos is still there.   On my dad's 70th birthday, His church made a video of birthday wishes for him (he had retired to Phoenix and his church was in Columbus). Well one of the member ran into Archie and asked Archie if he would say something. Archie did more than just say hi, it was great. Greater still was my dad's face lighting up when he saw it. Dad was really sick at the time and didn't live much longer, it really is amazing how much sports can bring such joy in people's like.  One of the reason we need to get back to it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 29, 2020, 05:33:19 PM
Just ordered the amp and a new sub for the Jeep, along with all the attendant stuff to install. 

Current:



New:


This is the first time I'll have a legit stereo system in a car since college. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 29, 2020, 05:36:54 PM
I personally don't quite understand having an expensive sound system in a car, even a Mercedes or whatever.  Well, it's not for me is a better way to put it.

I have a decent system in the living room here, nothing hyper like my friend in Cincy put together.  He spent more on his cables than I spent on the whole system.

And the wife won't let me turn it up for long either.  She thinks it bothers the neighbor, who says he can't hear anything.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 29, 2020, 05:44:00 PM
I personally don't quite understand having an expensive sound system in a car, even a Mercedes or whatever.  Well, it's not for me is a better way to put it.

I have a decent system in the living room here, nothing hyper like my friend in Cincy put together.  He spent more on his cables than I spent on the whole system.

And the wife won't let me turn it up for long either.  She thinks it bothers the neighbor, who says he can't hear anything.
For some reason, I am thinking of the commercial (for what product or service I can't recall) and the young couple is looking at their new apartment, admiring the hardwood floors, etc., and the husband says, "We have a clog problem," and the family of 20 upstairs is all clogging in unison as they go about their activities.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 29, 2020, 05:53:20 PM
I personally don't quite understand having an expensive sound system in a car, even a Mercedes or whatever.  Well, it's not for me is a better way to put it.
Honestly I don't go overboard much any more, not how I would have done in HS or college. 

The main issue in the Jeep is that I drive around with the top down 100% of the time. The stock system is just NOT capable of overcoming wind noise at 80 mph, and to turn it up high enough you can hear it is at the very top end of its capabilities so you're in the distortion zone.

In this case, the deeper I got into it (after the main speakers and HU) the more I realized that the stock system is horribly designed and just had to do it right because I'm a damn perfectionist ;-) 

In my other vehicles, I don't ever crank the music up high enough to have to worry about distortion. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 29, 2020, 05:54:57 PM
I do have a subwoofer.  It is turned down to the minimum setting, but it gets pretty boomy in movies.  We usually listen to classical music and some of that can crescendo.

Our Tech physics professor is coming for dinner, he likes movies after dinner, he hasn't seen a lot of great movies.  He prefers comedies.  He thought Groundhog's Day was an epiphany.

Something about quantum uncertainty and time loops.

He doesn't "act" smart, whatever that means, but he has a PhD from Harvard in physics, so I'm pretty sure he is.  He also did enough to get a tenured job at a major U, he never taught anywhere else, he said he really never wanted to move.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 29, 2020, 05:56:25 PM
I can see that a Jeep at extra legal speeds would need some oomph, and I HATE distortion of the sort so common on riced up Civics.

Why anyone would rice a Civic I'll never know.  I see some with extra wide tires .... on the back.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 29, 2020, 06:20:54 PM
Honestly I don't go overboard much any more, not how I would have done in HS or college.

The main issue in the Jeep is that I drive around with the top down 100% of the time. The stock system is just NOT capable of overcoming wind noise at 80 mph, and to turn it up high enough you can hear it is at the very top end of its capabilities so you're in the distortion zone.

In this case, the deeper I got into it (after the main speakers and HU) the more I realized that the stock system is horribly designed and just had to do it right because I'm a damn perfectionist ;-)

In my other vehicles, I don't ever crank the music up high enough to have to worry about distortion.
I could tell you about an experience fixing my wife's toilet, which was "running" oh so slightly.  Water on the ceiling, 2 days, and $150 later, I finished a very thorough repair job.

Never again.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 29, 2020, 06:28:50 PM
The local news is showing some protests, really more gatherings, downtown, rather breathlessly.  I don't see much of anything happening though.  The police here are probably 70% black and maybe that helps some.  A lot of white folks are int he "protests".  

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on May 29, 2020, 06:29:45 PM
I thought the fart cannons on those Civics had gone out of style, then I saw a few more last weekend.  I was misinformed.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 29, 2020, 06:35:32 PM
I was just missing my Jeep yesterday, looking at cheapees on Craigslist for sale and youtube videos of off-roading.  My hatchback-city life stinks, vehicularly.


One thing about most off-roading I see online is it's all low PSI tires, crawling at 4 mph.  That bores me.  I had my 2" lift, going 50+ mph off-road going crazy.  Now THAT'S fun.  Finding isolated trails and camping spots, but exploring, not crawling.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 29, 2020, 08:16:14 PM
I don't spend enough time in my truck to warrant a high end sound system or sirius radio

well, only when I drive to Texas a couple times a year

I would like a great system in the house, but I doubt my daughter's dog would appreciate it

he could go out into the yard, he has his own door

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 29, 2020, 11:19:52 PM
2020 is really not one of my favorite years.


I just dragged out my 9 mms and loaded magazines.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: mcwterps1 on May 29, 2020, 11:37:28 PM
2020 is really not one of my favorite years.


I just dragged out my 9 mms and loaded magazines.
And to think most couldn't wait for 2019 to end. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2020, 12:35:52 AM
Yeah, well.  I'm being cautious.  Our security night guy is first class.  He will call me if anything goes bad, and he can get to the fourth floor where no one can follow.

He has my number.

I'm trying to calm the wife down.  Not easy to do with firearms out of the safe, but we should be fine.  I may not sleep much.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 30, 2020, 08:43:10 AM
Well, I didn't see any riots in Mission Viejo. Just a nice night on the lake...

(https://www.homebrewtalk.com/attachments/img_20200529_154339-jpg.682726/)

(https://www.homebrewtalk.com/attachments/img_20200529_154832-jpg.682727/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2020, 08:46:42 AM
Nothing happened around us apparently, some looting at Lenox Square and downtown of course had some damage including to the CFB HoF, which is "odd", to me.  I guess some looters broke stuff and carted off memorabilia, I don't know how bad the damage was, on the ground floor it looks pretty significant.

It's a nice sunny day and quiet.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 30, 2020, 10:11:39 AM
Nothing happened around us apparently, some looting at Lenox Square and downtown of course had some damage including to the CFB HoF, which is "odd", to me.  I guess some looters broke stuff and carted off memorabilia, I don't know how bad the damage was, on the ground floor it looks pretty significant.

It's a nice sunny day and quiet.
They started to riot here in Houston but the HPD started arresting people and that kinda cooled things down
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2020, 10:17:05 AM
The reports on the condition of the HoF are fragmentary, I can't tell how much damage was done.  There isn't much on the ground floor worth taking that I can recall.  They have a small field where you can kick PATs, which is kinda fun, it was not crowded when we visited.

Hopefully, the damage is limited to the ground floor and windows.  The paper claims the police cleared it but not how fast they acted, they were on scene in large numbers.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on May 30, 2020, 11:04:19 AM
The reports on the condition of the HoF are fragmentary, I can't tell how much damage was done.  There isn't much on the ground floor worth taking that I can recall.  They have a small field where you can kick PATs, which is kinda fun, it was not crowded when we visited.

Hopefully, the damage is limited to the ground floor and windows.  The paper claims the police cleared it but not how fast they acted, they were on scene in large numbers.


This is Cincy's "they killed John Wick's dog" moment
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2020, 11:21:54 AM
Latest report is the looters hit the gift shop, which makes sense, and would be no particular loss.  It's weird they hit CNN Center and this place as there isn't much worth looting at either.

But, I think it starts with a gathering, then a protest, and then unsavories hear about it and sense an opportunity to destroy.  If there is a retail store there, great, if not, destroy anything.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 30, 2020, 11:45:09 AM
my understanding is that its not as spontaneous as it appears
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2020, 01:10:57 PM
Every case may be different don't know, but I do see that what starts out peaceful gets rowdier over time and then looting starts.  My notion is the looters seek out the protests because it provides cover for them.  I imagine some "initiators" also get involved as well.

Were I a looter, I'd want to start something - throw a bottle or rock from back in the crowd - to get the police to react and that sparks the crowd and then AHBL and I have my chance to smash and grab.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2020, 03:42:35 PM
https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/cfb-hall-of-fame-ceo-weighs-in-on-damage-caused-by-protestors-says-no-cfb-history-was-damaged/ (https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/cfb-hall-of-fame-ceo-weighs-in-on-damage-caused-by-protestors-says-no-cfb-history-was-damaged/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on May 30, 2020, 03:49:08 PM
Perhaps Jim Harbaugh was one of the rioters.  Noted for not leaving a mark on college football history.  :57:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 30, 2020, 05:13:18 PM
my understanding is that its not as spontaneous as it appears
Yeah, especially the white guys dressed in all black breaking every commercial window they can.  I'm sure it's just coordinated outrage.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 30, 2020, 07:10:19 PM
Yeah, especially the white guys dressed in all black breaking every commercial window they can.  I'm sure it's just coordinated outrage.
Hey I dont really care what color they are

If they are looting and destroying property then they need to be prosecuted 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 30, 2020, 07:17:14 PM
Yeah, especially the white guys dressed in all black breaking every commercial window they can.  I'm sure it's just coordinated outrage.. I am sure.  Like the Minneapolis mayor said, plus organized crime and drug cartels.

You are obviously watching 6 different channels than me.

But then again, Mayor Wolf of Minneapolis did say it was organized crime, white supremacists and drug cartels.  😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

I guess those people disguise well and live nearby because I keep seeing black white supremacists, lighting fires, and smashing windows, and filling wheelbarrows full off looted goods.  They surely can’t be taking those wheelbarrows to the airport.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on May 30, 2020, 08:34:06 PM
Btw the amount of bonkers shit that happened to playersin this game.

MoC - went to prison for robbery
Will Smith - shot and killed after traffic accident
Sean Taylor - shot and killed during a home invasion
Kellen Winslow - in prison for rape
Will Smith and Sean Taylor were just tragedies. Sean Taylor would've gone down as one of the greatest safeties the NFL has ever seen. Will Smith was with his family when that dumbass shot him over a minor traffic incident.

Speaking of Winslow, that is just crazy. Isn't he in jail for rape of a 60+ year old woman? Freaking sicko.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on May 30, 2020, 08:35:20 PM
Yeah, especially the white guys dressed in all black breaking every commercial window they can.  I'm sure it's just coordinated outrage.
Did you see that video of that one guy? People that were protesting were following him and video taping him and calling him out for being a cop. That guy is 1000000% a cop. Supposedly his ex-wife has even outed him. But of course the police department is denying it and providing zero evidence just saying "oh he has an alibi".
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on May 30, 2020, 08:38:23 PM
Latest report is the looters hit the gift shop, which makes sense, and would be no particular loss.  It's weird they hit CNN Center and this place as there isn't much worth looting at either.

But, I think it starts with a gathering, then a protest, and then unsavories hear about it and sense an opportunity to destroy.  If there is a retail store there, great, if not, destroy anything.
They can burn CNN down for all I care. They'd be doing the American people a huge favor.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on May 30, 2020, 08:38:54 PM
Perhaps Jim Harbaugh was one of the rioters.  Noted for not leaving a mark on college football history.  :57:
This isn't exactly true. I believe his upset of Pete Carroll's powerhouse then #1 USC when Jim was at Stanford is still considered the greatest upset in the history of college football. Stanford was 44 point underdogs I believe. Plus that whole "What's YOUR deal" with him and Carroll will live in infamy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on May 30, 2020, 08:42:58 PM
Hey I dont really care what color they are

If they are looting and destroying property then they need to be prosecuted
Yeah, I'm with you. It's wrong and if you can arrest people without beating the shit out of them or shooting them, they should. Looting/destroying property is never OK imo. But I really don't think people should ever be shot over looting though. Destruction of some glass doors/windows and people stealing shit from Walmart doesn't mean police should start shooting people with guns.

Walmart has insurance. The glass doors and windows can be replaced. Human lives can't. They can recoup money for any stolen product. Human lives can't be recouped. You don't start shooting people just because they are taking shit from Walmart.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 30, 2020, 08:47:41 PM
They can burn CNN down for all I care. They'd be doing the American people a huge favor.
https://www.cleveland19.com/2020/05/30/city-cleveland-institutes-curfew-due-violence-unrest-george-floyd-protests/
 (https://www.cleveland19.com/2020/05/30/city-cleveland-institutes-curfew-due-violence-unrest-george-floyd-protests/)Coming to a neighborhood near you,I'm sure the horses in the mounted units are part of the problem as they were getting pelted
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 30, 2020, 08:48:13 PM
Yeah, I'm with you. It's wrong and if you can arrest people without beating the shit out of them or shooting them, they should. Looting/destroying property is never OK imo. But I really don't think people should ever be shot over looting though. Destruction of some glass doors/windows and people stealing shit from Walmart doesn't mean police should start shooting people with guns.

Walmart has insurance. The glass doors and windows can be replaced. Human lives can't. They can recoup money for any stolen product. Human lives can't be recouped. You don't start shooting people just because they are taking shit from Walmart.
do you feel the same way if its your house

cause thats next
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on May 30, 2020, 08:56:50 PM
You are obviously watching 6 different channels than me.

But then again, Mayor Wolf of Minneapolis did say it was organized crime, white supremacists and drug cartels.  😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

I guess those people disguise well and live nearby because I keep seeing black white supremacists, lighting fires, and smashing windows, and filling wheelbarrows full off looted goods.  They surely can’t be taking those wheelbarrows to the airport.
That Mayor is the exact fake liberal douchey race baiting white "woke" fake ass social justice warrior loser that makes things worse for everyone in this country, not just black people. How the hell was he ever elected?

Having said that, I have zero doubt there were some undercover police officers smashing windows and destroying property. It's standard police procedure whenever there are protests. They egg shit on and make it worse so they can then have an excuse to "Crackdown".

There is a criminal justice/police brutality problem in this country. I'm not sure that it's a racism problem, but it definitely disproportionately affects black people. We need massive criminal justice/police reform in his country ASAP. Ending the stupid "war on drugs" and de-militarizing the police, ending police being shielded from criminal liability for their actions, and making it a LOT tougher for someone to become a police officer would go a loooooong way in starting to turn things around.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on May 30, 2020, 08:59:00 PM
do you feel the same way if its your house

cause thats next
Lol. That's an entirely different scenario. Walmart doesn't = peoples homes.

And I doubt that's next.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 30, 2020, 09:10:17 PM
I doubt they are coming to my home
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 30, 2020, 09:17:40 PM
I doubt they are coming to my home
nor mine either

else they get a chance to meet Mr Glock
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 30, 2020, 09:26:02 PM
That Mayor is the exact fake liberal douchey race baiting white "woke" fake ass social justice warrior loser that makes things worse for everyone in this country, not just black people. How the hell was he ever elected?

Having said that, I have zero doubt there were some undercover police officers smashing windows and destroying property. It's standard police procedure whenever there are protests. They egg shit on and make it worse.

There is a criminal justice/police brutality problem in this country. I'm not sure that it's a racism problem, but it definitely disproportionately affects black people. We need massive criminal justice/police reform in his country ASAP. Ending the stupid "war on drugs" and de-militarizing the police, ending police being shielded from criminal liability for their actions, and making it a LOT tougher for someone to become a police officer would go a loooooong way in starting to turn things around.
So a rogue cop in a callous act in one place - who should be hung btw gives license to others in many places to use their discretion while burning,looting and using any implement handy to toss at law enforcement and any other unfortunates in the vicinity - makes sense
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 30, 2020, 09:39:00 PM
Latest report is the looters hit the gift shop, which makes sense, and would be no particular loss.  It's weird they hit CNN Center and this place as there isn't much worth looting at either.

But, I think it starts with a gathering, then a protest, and then unsavories hear about it and sense an opportunity to destroy.  If there is a retail store there, great, if not, destroy anything.
People will do things in groups that they wouldn't think of doing if by themselves.
Power to "the people."  Right.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 30, 2020, 09:41:10 PM
Well, I didn't see any riots in Mission Viejo. Just a nice night on the lake...

(https://www.homebrewtalk.com/attachments/img_20200529_154339-jpg.682726/)

(https://www.homebrewtalk.com/attachments/img_20200529_154832-jpg.682727/)
There's rioting in L.A.  I have a stepson living there.  There's a store burning right across the street from where he used to live.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2020, 12:51:26 AM
Wow, MrNubbz, that was some Area 51-level racism, closing down the Covid thread.  ffs
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 31, 2020, 01:15:56 AM
You know, I've had enough of humanity. #teamvirus 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 31, 2020, 08:09:58 AM
Wow, MrNubbz, that was some Area 51-level racism, closing down the Covid thread.  ffs
wasnt MrNubbz it was Mdot21

and he posted an actual article

I really dont think he was comparing anyone to monkeys

if he was then shame on him but I didnt take it that way

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 31, 2020, 08:35:58 AM
Wow, MrNubbz, that was some Area 51-level racism, closing down the Covid thread.  ffs
he likes Nubbz
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 31, 2020, 08:37:15 AM
You know, I've had enough of humanity. #teamvirus
yup, I'm just golfing and drinking

36 holes yesterday

planning at least that many today
it passes the time
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 31, 2020, 08:41:45 AM
Things have remained quiet in midtown.  We walked a bit in the park yesterday around noon, no issues, then we ventured into the residential area north of us.  There was a curfew last night, restaurants around us closed.  Maybe the looters realized there isn't much to loot downtown and went north to Buckhead, where there is a lot to loot, Nieman-Marcus, Saks, high end jewelry stores, etc., but there also was a heavy police and NG presence there for that reason.

My early notion was to buy a condo in Buckhead, it's a nice area, very built up these days, but no parks.  Parks are important.

We did put in a bit on this place because the wife liked the pool, but didn't get it:

(https://i.imgur.com/nC0oCo3.png)

That was Tyler Perry's place, he's some entertainer I think, just sold.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 31, 2020, 09:25:05 AM
Wow, MrNubbz, that was some Area 51-level racism, closing down the Covid thread.  ffs
Do you pick fights with people online just to have someone to talk to?.I called them assholes,were you in Cleveland yesterday?I was,5 miles from downtown at a repair shop.Businesses that had already been suffering from government shutdown and were reopening some were getting their storefronts shoved in as the porch pirates were helping themselves all in the name of George Floyd of course. https://fox8.com/news/city-officials-businesses-begin-clean-up-after-violent-protesters-damaged-downtown-cleveland/ (https://fox8.com/news/city-officials-businesses-begin-clean-up-after-violent-protesters-damaged-downtown-cleveland/) The same Businesses that are depended on to pay their taxes so KeyBoard Kommandos like you can have a job. These miscreants can't visit you fast enough.I've already stated they should hang the cop that started all this.But in your lust to post your assinine assertions you gleefully gloss over that part.You evidently are fine with thugs smashing,stealing or torching others property - that's not yours.Oh and the local TV just reported many of horses in the mounted unit have been treated for injuries.They had it coming I'm sure you'd agree - as did this bus stop shelter

(https://i.imgur.com/Hq9Y3en.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on May 31, 2020, 09:51:32 AM
Hmmm, maybe we can get a double barrel lock with two threads.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 31, 2020, 09:59:30 AM
Why for salty civil commentary?

“I don’t agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” -  Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 31, 2020, 10:37:22 AM
Why for salty civil commentary?

“I don’t agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” - Evelyn Beatrice Hall

evidently EBH never met OAM
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 31, 2020, 10:39:04 AM
evidently EBH never met OAM
One lucky woman
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 31, 2020, 11:06:30 AM
its going to be interesting to see just how all these protesting/rioting affects the coronavirus stats

if there is no real increase in the cities with the protesting/rioting then why in hell are we not opening up faster

if there is a big increase in virus cases in the cities with protesting/rioting then what do you do
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on May 31, 2020, 11:27:02 AM
its going to be interesting to see just how all these protesting/rioting affects the coronavirus stats

if there is no real increase in the cities with the protesting/rioting then why in hell are we not opening up faster

if there is a big increase in virus cases in the cities with protesting/rioting then what do you do
Gotta love the “woke” left.

Can’t open up the economy and end people’s economic and mental suffering. EVERYONE STAY AT HOME OR WELL CALL THE COPS AND SNITCH ON YOU.

Gathering in massive crowds of thousands and thousands of people to protest, loot, riot? LETS DO ITTTTTTTTTTT.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 31, 2020, 11:40:15 AM
Gotta love the “woke” left.

Can’t open up the economy and end people’s economic and mental suffering. EVERYONE STAY AT HOME OR WELL CALL THE COPS AND SNITCH ON YOU.

Gathering in massive crowds of thousands and thousands of people to protest, loot, riot? LETS DO ITTTTTTTTTTT.
yes there is a bit of irony in all this
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on May 31, 2020, 11:40:51 AM
yes there is a bit of irony in all this
Humans suck.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 31, 2020, 11:50:57 AM
anyway here in Houston the HPD backed up by the national guard and others arrested about 200

Friday night with some property damage but no fires etc

On Sat night the HPD arrested about 100 and the protest was relatively peaceful 

Amazing what actually arresting rioters will do to the crowd
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 31, 2020, 12:00:24 PM
Why for salty civil commentary?

“I don’t agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” - Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Evelyn Beatrice Hall, whoever she was, was paraphrasing Voltaire.
I don't know Evelyn, but I'm pretty sure that Voltaire would not have defended to his death anyone's right to spout stupidity.  If he would have, how did he live to the ripe old age of 83?
But it sounded good.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 31, 2020, 12:07:31 PM
Humans suck.
Especially we suck when we are in groups.  Then we become mobs.  Being in a mob lets us really cater to our dark sides with little chance of punishment.
It's like being the Invisible Man.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 31, 2020, 12:24:58 PM

Evelyn Beatrice Hall, whoever she was, was paraphrasing Voltaire.
I don't know Evelyn, but I'm pretty sure that Voltaire would not have defended to his death anyone's right to spout stupidity.  If he would have, how did he live to the ripe old age of 83?
But it sounded good.
Voltaire never said it though,https://studentactivism.net/2015/01/08/no-voltaire-didnt-say-that-no-not-that-either/ (https://studentactivism.net/2015/01/08/no-voltaire-didnt-say-that-no-not-that-either/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 31, 2020, 12:26:00 PM
Oklahoma sucks.
FIFY
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 31, 2020, 12:30:12 PM
HA!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 31, 2020, 01:56:35 PM
We walked around midtown a bit today after brunch (place was crowded, every table full).  Zero evidence of any damage anywhere, the protests didn't get this far north of downtown.  I've seen photos of a lot of broken glass up in Buckhead.  

The spread of the virus has to have been potentiated by all these crowds.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on May 31, 2020, 01:59:54 PM
We walked around midtown a bit today after brunch (place was crowded, every table full).  Zero evidence of any damage anywhere, the protests didn't get this far north of downtown.  I've seen photos of a lot of broken glass up in Buckhead. 

The spread of the virus has to have been potentiated by all these crowds. 
Ya. Just as the economy was starting to open back up, what happens? Bunch of idiots gather in HUGE groups many of them not wearing masks, and they destroy property and businesses and loot and steal shit.

That totally will help slow the spread of the virus and help kickstart the economy!

I’m starting to think humanity deserves all the bad shit that happens to it. We will wipe ourselves out. Don’t have to worry about viruses or asteroids.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 31, 2020, 02:10:44 PM
The looting and damage here has been very localized, not wide spread and from I can tell not that much damage was done relative to "real riots".

The police have also arrested quite a few individuals who likely are prone to criminal acts so they are off the streets for a spell anyway.  From the photos, quite a few of the protesters are white.  The police department here is mostly black, which leads to some interesting scenes, white people taunting black police officers for being racist.

These things in the past have lasted a few days and petered out but back then folks had jobs to get back to in many cases, that has changed today.

The wife is intensely interested in the Space X thing, so she's watching that almost all the time.  I get the highlights.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 31, 2020, 03:01:06 PM
Imagine somehow "we" did stuff like exploring space instead of destroying neighborhoods with riots and wars ...

... if you can, it's easy to do.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 31, 2020, 04:10:39 PM
Watching live as “ protesters” are burning and crashing police cars in Philly.  


I don’t see anyone that looks like Antifa, or white supremacists.  Yet I can only find one station that dares to show what is happening?


Sad, sad times.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 31, 2020, 04:20:48 PM
Racial composition of Atlanta PD:

African American/Black: 58%
Caucasian/ White: 37% 
Hispanic: 4% 
Asian: 1%

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 31, 2020, 04:27:40 PM
Watching live as “ protesters” are burning and crashing police cars in Philly. 


I don’t see anyone that looks like Antifa, or white supremacists.  Yet I can only find one station that dares to show what is happening?


Sad, sad times.
Im watching that too
Where are the cops
Protesters are being given a free hand to do as they want
now they are looting a drug store
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 31, 2020, 04:46:10 PM
Im watching that too
Where are the cops
Protesters are being given a free hand to do as they want
now they are looting a drug store
Protesters?   Not seeing much protesting.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 31, 2020, 04:50:27 PM
https://13wham.com/news/local/woman-attacked-outside-rochester-business


Needs no comment.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 31, 2020, 05:25:39 PM
Voltaire never said it though,https://studentactivism.net/2015/01/08/no-voltaire-didnt-say-that-no-not-that-either/ (https://studentactivism.net/2015/01/08/no-voltaire-didnt-say-that-no-not-that-either/)
OK, I almost knew that somebody would come up with that.
How about this?  "Evelyn Beatrice Hall summarized what she thought that Voltaire would have said had he ever said anything about defending anyone's right to say what he wanted to say even if it offended Voltaire."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 31, 2020, 05:27:43 PM
FIFY
If OU sucks then Texas blows.

Wash, rinse, repeat 5 billion times between now and October.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 31, 2020, 05:30:23 PM
Ya. Just as the economy was starting to open back up, what happens? Bunch of idiots gather in HUGE groups many of them not wearing masks, and they destroy property and businesses and loot and steal shit.

That totally will help slow the spread of the virus and help kickstart the economy!

I’m starting to think humanity deserves all the bad shit that happens to it. We will wipe ourselves out. Don’t have to worry about viruses or asteroids.
Civilization is a very thin veneer.  And it's a lot easier to destroy it than to build it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on May 31, 2020, 05:33:21 PM
OK, I almost knew that somebody would come up with that.
How about this?  "Evelyn Beatrice Hall summarized what she thought that Voltaire would have said had he ever said anything about defending anyone's right to say what he wanted to say even if it offended Voltaire."
HA! you got me on the Atlantic Charter when I meant the Nuetrality Act of 1939 - so we're even.See I'm not just another pretty fugly face
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on May 31, 2020, 05:46:08 PM
Thanks for reminding me about that, MrNubbz.

Now I don't feel so dumb about Voltaire.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2020, 07:44:28 PM
So a rogue cop in a callous act in one place - who should be hung btw gives license to others in many places to use their discretion while burning,looting and using any implement handy to toss at law enforcement and any other unfortunates in the vicinity - makes sense
How many rogue cops does it take?  Don't you DARE pretend this is some isolated thing.  It's a lie.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2020, 07:45:55 PM
Civilization is a very thin veneer.  And it's a lot easier to destroy it than to build it.
I agree.  Whenever people seem too enamored with humanity, I remind them that if any one of us was dropped in the forest, naked, with no possessions, we'd seem unimpressive reeeeal quick.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2020, 07:47:04 PM
Imagine somehow "we" did stuff like exploring space instead of destroying neighborhoods with riots and wars ...

... if you can, it's easy to do.
You're not this naive.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2020, 07:49:12 PM
evidently EBH never met OAM
People are totally free to reveal themselves, just as I'm free to call them what they are.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 31, 2020, 08:13:15 PM
I liked it better when he was asleep

why did somebody wake him up
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2020, 08:18:30 PM
I had a co-worker hurt herself and is a wheelchair for 4-6 weeks.  She knew I like to build things and I've been building her a ramp, because there's 2 sets of stairs to her apartment.

I'm not all bad, and neither are you.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 31, 2020, 08:26:48 PM
I had a co-worker hurt herself and is a wheelchair for 4-6 weeks.  She knew I like to build things and I've been building her a ramp, because there's 2 sets of stairs to her apartment.

I'm not all bad, and neither are you.
Look OAM I really have nothing against you
Hell I dont even know you
I think sometimes you feel the need to preach to us and it gets a little old that all
No one here thinks what happened by the officer is acceptable
People have the right if not an obligation to protest an injustice
They dont have the right to loot and destroy property
I hope you feel that way as well else we are at an impasse

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2020, 08:38:00 PM
We all agree on all of that.  
But then I see the white guys dressed in all black, calmly destroying store windows with hammers.  You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to think hey, that is coordinated and odd.  Hmm, I wonder who's funding them?  
Why calmly destroy store windows and walk away?  Because they're goading the protesters/rioters into rioting and stealing.  Yes, if something is out in the open, people will take it.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 31, 2020, 08:48:27 PM
We all agree on all of that. 
But then I see the white guys dressed in all black, calmly destroying store windows with hammers.  You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to think hey, that is coordinated and odd.  Hmm, I wonder who's funding them? 
Why calmly destroy store windows and walk away?  Because they're goading the protesters/rioters into rioting and stealing.  Yes, if something is out in the open, people will take it.


Who do you think is funding them?

I saw up close video today ( and can share it) if a white guy dressed in all black, giving lots of cash to black guys for starting fires and destroying things.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 31, 2020, 08:54:43 PM
We all agree on all of that. 
But then I see the white guys dressed in all black, calmly destroying store windows with hammers.  You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to think hey, that is coordinated and odd.  Hmm, I wonder who's funding them? 
Why calmly destroy store windows and walk away?  Because they're goading the protesters/rioters into rioting and stealing.  Yes, if something is out in the open, people will take it.


I do think a lot of the violence come from outside agitation

This country needs to take whatever steps needed to stop the looting and property damage

The protesters have the nations attention and I hope they dont waste it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 31, 2020, 08:56:08 PM
The bar next door is still going full bore and we have a 9 PM curfew.

I guess they will get home, the police are all downtown and in Buckhead.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2020, 08:56:51 PM
I don't know, I'm not going to make that leap.  But they weren't outraged or angry, they weren't alone, and they calmly left right away.  I've seen multiple different videos of them at different sites during this thing.  

They could be a local group of psychos who are local and used this as an opportunity.  I happen to think it's a group of people influenced by someone bigger who pays them.  

It's just a likelihood thing.  But if you see the videos, it's beyond odd and well past fishy.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 31, 2020, 09:00:34 PM
I don't know, I'm not going to make that leap.  But they weren't outraged or angry, they weren't alone, and they calmly left right away.  I've seen multiple different videos of them at different sites during this thing. 

They could be a local group of psychos who are local and used this as an opportunity.  I happen to think it's a group of people influenced by someone bigger who pays them. 

It's just a likelihood thing.  But if you see the videos, it's beyond odd and well past fishy. 
Agreed. In fact it is obvious and the evidence is mounting.  it sure isn’t helping anyone. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 31, 2020, 09:04:57 PM
Example
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 31, 2020, 09:07:52 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=25anPO4vQxE
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2020, 09:10:04 PM
We all want the same things, but our reactions seem to be miles apart.

Person A sees what happened to (name the black male, plenty to choose from), acknowledge that it was wrong, and want the offending officer(s) to face the consequences.  They say it's unfortunate, but it happens sometimes.  They say it should not lead to looting and riots, and that most cops are good.  But they go on about their business.

They see the statistics on rape and sexual assault.  They say it's unfortunate, but it happens sometimes.  They say it can be avoided by not dressing a certain way or not drinking too much.  But they go on about their business.

They see the part of town that are impoverished and the homeless guy with a sign, standing at the intersection all day.  They say it's unfortunate, but it happens.  They might suggest the poor/homeless should work harder or do what they, themselves did, and move up the ladder.  But they go on about their business.



Person B sees this things and says NO.  This isn't okay.  We need a paradigm shift and we need it now.  Things don't have to be this way.






Person A is a good person.  They're right - most cops are great, dangerous situations can be avoided by women, and the poor/homeless do need to work hard.  
But Person A also seems to shrug and think "that's just how things are."  And Person A is right again!  It is how things are.  BUT THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE.  A society/culture can be a certain way about a certain thing for 100 years, but change can still happen.
We have a lot of Person As on this board.  


Person B is more optimistic about change.  Improvement?  


Some things are what I call "glacially slow" at changing.  And most of these things are mundane and inconsequential.  And some of them aren't.  Some of them are unacceptable.  Change can be created, there's a history of it - there's evidence.  But I see these 3 things as threads of a rope in a game of tug-o-war.  
People A just see them as they are.  They hate it, they would end all of the ugliness if they could, but they seem resigned to acknowledging them as a part of our society.  
People B see how horrific they are and feel a sense of urgency to make change - to push fast-forward on these aspects of our society.  And I don't thing that's a bad thing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 31, 2020, 09:14:01 PM
Things are simply not going to change fast enough or with any significance.  They aren't, no matter how many protest and loot and burn and whatever.  Maybe I'm a pessimist, but I left the idealism of youth with my youth, and unfortunately my pessimism has generally  been right.

If you want to try and change things, great, count me out.  I'm tired boss.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2020, 09:25:15 PM
Things are simply not going to change fast enough or with any significance.  They aren't, no matter how many protest and loot and burn and whatever.  Maybe I'm a pessimist, but I left the idealism of youth with my youth, and unfortunately my pessimism has generally  been right.

If you want to try and change things, great, count me out.  I'm tired boss.
And I'm sure that's perfectly normal.  We all age and are influenced by our experiences.  
If you take all of the individual issues that tend to separate us, it all really comes down to being optimistic that bad things can change quickly vs seeing enough ongoing bad things and thus being pessimistic that they can change anytime soon (as you said).  When we look at it this way, both sides are understandable and the rift shrinks a lot.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 31, 2020, 09:26:36 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/former-nba-player-jr-smith-punches-kicks-man-car-vandalism-los-angeles

The fact that I laughed my ass off at this- especially what the NBA player said about why he kicked the white guys ass- probably doesn’t prove I am not racist, as much as it proves I have a warped sense of humor.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2020, 09:39:36 PM
Before all this, just last week, I saw a video of a kid keying the hell out of a guy's car, and the owner walked up and beat the shit out of him.  The funny part was what all the bystanders were saying - you key a car like that, you get what you get!

I think that's a universal thing.  If you catch someone doing that to your vehicle, all bets are off.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 31, 2020, 09:49:39 PM
nope not me 

if I catch someone keying my car Im going to go across the street and set fire to that drug store
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 31, 2020, 09:54:53 PM
y'all don't have Target in TexaS?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2020, 09:55:11 PM
nope not me

if I catch someone keying my car Im going to go across the street and set fire to that drug store
It's like you can't help yourself.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 31, 2020, 10:01:14 PM
It's like you can't help yourself.
what can I say

low hanging fruit
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 31, 2020, 10:02:24 PM
y'all don't have Target in TexaS?
sure we do but then I wouldnt have anywhere to buy my pork skins
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 31, 2020, 10:05:56 PM
why wouldn't you loot a Target store, as opposed to the drug store?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on May 31, 2020, 10:06:31 PM
Two ATL police fired for excessive force, both are black.

Things appear to be calm here now, curfew is holding.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on May 31, 2020, 10:22:11 PM
curfew in Lincoln NE

strange
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on May 31, 2020, 10:25:48 PM
curfew in Lincoln NE

strange
Huskers rioting?

What would they do 

go tip over someones cow
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2020, 10:38:58 PM
Curfew in Phx for a week, due to the fancy mall in Scottsdale being looted.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 31, 2020, 11:23:46 PM
Excrement hitting the air circulation device here in SoCal. 

Not so much in Mission Viejo, but a lot of people I know are in the thick of it. College friend in Santa Monica, many of my wife's friends in Long Beach. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on May 31, 2020, 11:25:36 PM
I was thinking about how often MLK is brought up in all this. His approach was the gold standard. But the details are often overlooked.

1. It took such a level of discipline, planning and selection process to cultivate people who would take that sort of abuse. Like that is remarkable.

2. Although Cincy spoke about the challenge of change, we've seen a good degree of it, and in truth, that positive thing creates the space for riots (this is a degree of spitballing because I've not studied it deeply). When MLK marched, those law enforcement folks would kill folks or savage them to a large degree and have not all that much compunction about it. So I suppose that rolling back the deadly power of the state is in some ways a positive.

Anyway, someone on twitter pointed out you can find short videos that prove your point on either side. Some real ugly stuff from a blend of protesters getting militants/opportunistic shits and a lot of LEOs not covering themselves in glory. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 01, 2020, 12:17:51 AM
Anyway, someone on twitter pointed out you can find short videos that prove your point on either side. Some real ugly stuff from a blend of protesters getting militants/opportunistic shits and a lot of LEOs not covering themselves in glory.
That's not exactly an even comparison, as law enforcement takes an "oath of honor" to protect and serve and the other group is the masses. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 01, 2020, 12:25:30 AM
I saw this today.  I like it.

(https://i.imgur.com/LPlX5pe.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2020, 12:26:41 AM
Nailed it. Venn diagram ftw. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 01, 2020, 01:35:33 AM
the vinn diagram is right for me except Im not part of the upper right circle

my upper right circle would say the police system is basically sound but we need to weed out any bad apples



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 01, 2020, 01:59:05 AM
the vinn diagram is right for me except Im not part of the upper right circle

my upper right circle would say the police system is basically sound but we need to weed out any bad apples
If you need to constantly weed out so many bad apples then it’s not basically sound. 

The police force and criminal justice system is the furthest thing from sound. It’s fundamentally broken.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 01, 2020, 02:16:27 AM
the vinn diagram is right for me except Im not part of the upper right circle

my upper right circle would say the police system is basically sound but we need to weed out any bad apples




If you were a minority, you'd 100% be part of the upper right circle.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 01, 2020, 03:30:28 AM
If you were a minority, you'd 100% be part of the upper right circle.
The police aren’t racist. I promise. SOME maybe sure. But most aren’t. Most people in general aren’t racist. The police are without a doubt however poorly-trained, under-vetted, and overly militarized. It’s a fucking weird job. I don’t know if any human is even cut out to do that job. And it’s sooo difficult to do that job well. And it’s not easy. At all. And it should be one of the hardest to get. But it’s not. It’s very easy to become one. And they typically don’t want smart people who think for themselves working there. They want mindless brainless people who follow orders and keep their mouths shut.

It’s not a racism thing. It’s not even a minority thing. It’s a class thing. Poor people that don’t have many options or opportunities in their lives tend to turn to crime at a much high rate% than those who grow up with middle class or upper middle class or upper class backgrounds who have many options and opportunities at their disposal.

When my ancestors came here from Italy in the early 1900s, they were all dirt poor. And more than a few of wound up where? As criminals in something called the mafia. They didn’t see a whole lot of options at first, they were treated like shit- and then banned from coming into the US entirely- and many turned to crime. That’s why there were so many jokes in the 1970s by comedians like Richard Pryor and George Carlin that not all Italians were in the mafia, but all of them worked for the mafia.

Italians were a small % of the population then. At that point about 10% of the population. But as a % of the population they were disproportionately engaging in serious crime. Sound familiar?

We have a class problem. We have an income inequality problem. There is an entire class of people who have very little options or a way out. And when many of those people turn to crime to make a living because they want to make a real living and not work a bullshit job that pays them next to nothing- well they’re going to run into police at a much higher rate than people who don’t lead a life of crime.

The police brutalize everyone. Not just black people. Want to cut the amount of police brutality in half- get rid of unconstitutional stop and frisk laws, cut the police force drastically, legalize drugs and end the ridiculously stupid “war on drugs”, de-militarize the police and have them get rid of all their military grade weapons and equipment, get rid of ticket quotas and eliminate cops pulling people over for bullshit reasons just so they can write bullshit tickets, prosecute police for brutality and murder when deserved- stop shielding them with immunity basically- vet candidates way better- make it aloooooot more difficult to become an officer- and make all current officers take polygraph, iq, and personality tests and fire the ones who aren’t fit for the job.

That will all largely end police brutality. For everyone. But will it help pull black people out of poverty? Will it fix completely run down and broken black neighborhoods like Detroit? Probably not. Rich people typically speaking give zero fu***ks about poor people. And the elites in the Democratic and Republican Party have all been captured by big monied interests. And that is who they always take care of first. Barack Obama gave two squirts of piss about the poor or minorities. Just like every president before him. He had Citigroup and Black Rock on speed dial doe.

/End Rant
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 01, 2020, 07:47:40 AM
How many rogue cops does it take?  Don't you DARE pretend this is some isolated thing.  It's a lie. 
Hang them but don't you dare make martryrs out of filth that uses this as an excuse while you sit in the relatively safe company of your Keyboard doing nothing.Tell it to the female HB just posted getting assaulted,that's hardly an isolated thing - that's a lie
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 01, 2020, 07:59:47 AM

nope not me

if I catch someone keying my car Im going to go across the street and set fire to that drug store
Winner,winner,Chicken Dinner
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 01, 2020, 08:00:36 AM
It's like you can't help yourself.
Excuse the pigs while the hogs eat
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 01, 2020, 08:08:09 AM
That's not exactly an even comparison, as law enforcement takes an "oath of honor" to protect and serve and the other group is the masses. 
The other group is not the masses it's a militant segment
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 01, 2020, 08:18:07 AM
I've noted before the Atlanta PD is majority black.  The two officers fired yesterday for EF were both black.  The mayor is black.

Last night was pretty quiet here fortunately.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2020, 08:30:36 AM
the vinn diagram is right for me except Im not part of the upper right circle

my upper right circle would say the police system is basically sound but we need to weed out any bad apples

The entire point of the upper right circle is that the system protects the bad apples instead of weeding them out. It's why the bad apples feel safe to act the way they do; there are rarely, if ever, consequences.

I believe the vast majority of cops are good. But I think even they feel impotent to bring these other cops in line because they know their departments will shun them if they try to take down the bad apples. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 01, 2020, 09:07:53 AM
if you want to have a discussion as to how to weed out the bad apples Im all for it

if on the other hand you feel most cops are racist then we have nothing to discuss
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 01, 2020, 09:09:32 AM
I don't see how anyone could claim "most cops are racist" in large cities, unless you mean to say black cops are racist against Asians or something.

Or their own race.  Or something.

Certainly back in the day when police forces were all white, sure.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 01, 2020, 09:10:42 AM
Somebody on my FB I went to HS with posted that he wanted all cops fired now and do a restart.

He posts entertaining drivel which is why he's still on my FB.  This was pretty choice.  Others responded so I didn't.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2020, 09:40:03 AM
if you want to have a discussion as to how to weed out the bad apples Im all for it

if on the other hand you feel most cops are racist then we have nothing to discuss
It's hard. Think about this: many of these issues occur in big, liberal cities. Minneapolis is very white, but even Minneapolis is a somewhat liberal city. Eric Garner occurred in NYC. Rodney King occurred in LA. Which suggests that something MUCH bigger than racism is involved.

Why do these liberal cities not fix the problem? While, one issue is public sector unions. The police union tries to make it impossible to discipline cops (which of course, as a union supporting their members, makes sense) because they want to ensure discipline is fair. In reality, they create so many hurdles to jump through that discipline is near impossible. There's a reason that being put on "paid administrative leave" is such a cutting joke about bad cops when they do something legitimately heinous enough to be investigated. Because the unions made it hard to just fire someone for being a bad apple. And the liberal cities are full of politicians that are pro-union [and receive union campaign donations], so they realize their careers might be cut short by opposing the police union.

Individually, I think the good cops know that speaking out against their colleagues, largely for the reason above [near-impossible to actually discipline anyone and get rid of them], is ineffectual. They also know that they're on a team with the rest of their department. The minute their colleagues believe that he's not going to have their back, they're not going to have his. And it's usually easy to rationalize not speaking up, of course, because while the bad apple might have gone too far, the victim of the abuse wasn't exactly a "good guy", he was a criminal. So it's easy to just shut your mouth and not rock the boat. And over time, that jaded position becomes the norm inside a department. 

District attorneys are generally political positions as well. They're the ones tasked with charging criminals, so when a police brutality case is brought before them to charge or not, they realize they have the same structural incentives as city politicians: don't piss off the constituency that is pro-police, don't piss off the union kingmakers who can fight against you in the next election, don't piss off the police who can engage in subtle harassment of you and your family because you prosecuted one of theirs. 

That circle of the venn diagram reads "the police system is structurally corrupt and regularly refuses to prosecute cops"... I believe that to be true for the reasons above, even though I don't believe that most cops, DAs, or politicians themselves are corrupt. That's where the structural corruption comes in. It's a system that takes in mostly good people, and ends up with bad outcomes. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 01, 2020, 09:47:10 AM
The majority of the departments are black in most major cities.

I keep noting that.  Are they racist?  I can see a charge they can tend to be power mad and resort to EF too readily.

Perhaps the issue is not racism, but people in positions of authority becoming very jaded about the public and seeing all of us as grist for their mill, not trusting anyone.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 01, 2020, 09:48:48 AM
We have a class problem. We have an income inequality problem. There is an entire class of people who have very little options or a way out. And when many of those people turn to crime to make a living because they want to make a real living and not work a bullshit job that pays them next to nothing- well they’re going to run into police at a much higher rate than people who don’t lead a life of crime.

Good Post.I understand theft if you're broke or doing something others deem shady if your circumstances are dire.But until the problem of unprovoked violence is HONESTLY  addressed playing the violins will fall on deaf ears - the wedge has been driven in.There really is no one i despise more Than corporate 1%ers who've had Lobbyists/lawyers making or changing regulations/laws in the halls of congress to benefit themselves while the masses soldier on in increasingly climbing inflation.These are trickle down problems from the uber rich who are hardly getting taxed on shit anymore.They've been moving headquarters out of the country to evade taxes.But still have the same access to the lucrative American Markets.Fine tax them as an import.And god damn the political stooges who let all of this happen.Just look at some of the nauseating golden parachutes or the too big to fail government bail outs.The middle class is getting spurred in the finacial side for quite some time and it doesn't seem to be abating
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 01, 2020, 10:05:23 AM
The majority of the departments are black in most major cities.

I keep noting that.  Are they racist?  I can see a charge they can tend to be power mad and resort to EF too readily.

Perhaps the issue is not racism, but people in positions of authority becoming very jaded about the public and seeing all of us as grist for their mill, not trusting anyone.


I need to see the receipts on that. I was looking at some data and it appeared to not be correct. More and more don't have a true majority, but not majority black.

Anyway, yes, having a high degree of power over people and pretty limited oversight is really problematic, not only in causing deaths, but also in a range of situations across the justice system. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 01, 2020, 10:42:24 AM
I need to see the receipts on that. I was looking at some data and it appeared to not be correct. More and more don't have a true majority, but not majority black.

Anyway, yes, having a high degree of power over people and pretty limited oversight is really problematic, not only in causing deaths, but also in a range of situations across the justice system.
Atlanta’s population is just over 50% black. Detroit’s population is just under 90% black. Baltimore is 65% black. New Orleans is 60+% black. It stands to reason that most of the police in these cities should be black. Especially a city like Detroit which is basically 90% black. I think it’s gone down to 87% because of a massive wave of millennial hipster woke white douchefags who grew up with silver spoons up their asses in affluent suburbs 30-40 miles from Detroit have decided to move to Detroit and get ripped off paying $1,000,000+ for a shitty loft in a shit hole neighborhood or spend $4,500 a month renting “penthouse” apartments downtown. Do you have any idea what kind of apartment you could rent in Brickell in Miami for $4,500 a month? Why on f****king earth would anyone pay that to live in downtown Detroit. Lmao.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 01, 2020, 10:51:43 AM
Atlanta’s population is just over 50% black. Detroit’s population is just under 90% black. Baltimore is 65% black. New Orleans is 60+% black. It stands to reason that most of the police in these cities should be black. Especially a city like Detroit which is basically 90% black. I think it’s gone down to 87% because of a massive wave of millennial hipster woke white douchefags who grew up with silver spoons up their asses in affluent suburbs 30-40 miles from Detroit have decided to move to Detroit and get ripped off paying $1,000,000+ for a shitty loft in a shit hole neighborhood or spend $4,500 a month renting “penthouse” apartments downtown. Do you have any idea what kind of apartment you could rent in Brickell in Miami for $4,500 a month? Why on f****king earth would anyone pay that to live in downtown Detroit. Lmao.

If you would just come out your shell and say what you really think lol.  😂😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on June 01, 2020, 10:55:12 AM
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/its-setup-mysteriously-staged-bricks-appear-throughout-major-protest-cities?fbclid=IwAR3jUQYkz6HeLDXFg0nZBo_JRXbJzTs5ACqPchGkH9OdvMBtoSIvM1ksrhQ (https://www.zerohedge.com/political/its-setup-mysteriously-staged-bricks-appear-throughout-major-protest-cities?fbclid=IwAR3jUQYkz6HeLDXFg0nZBo_JRXbJzTs5ACqPchGkH9OdvMBtoSIvM1ksrhQ)


Not familiar with this site, but I believe we will see more stories about "who is at fault".   Over the weekend I read theories on who is causing the escalations... I've heard protesters, right wing instigators, far left anarchists, undercover cops and even Russia.   I'm hoping we learn more but I find the fact that bricks show up at all these protests interesting.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 01, 2020, 10:57:22 AM
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/its-setup-mysteriously-staged-bricks-appear-throughout-major-protest-cities?fbclid=IwAR3jUQYkz6HeLDXFg0nZBo_JRXbJzTs5ACqPchGkH9OdvMBtoSIvM1ksrhQ (https://www.zerohedge.com/political/its-setup-mysteriously-staged-bricks-appear-throughout-major-protest-cities?fbclid=IwAR3jUQYkz6HeLDXFg0nZBo_JRXbJzTs5ACqPchGkH9OdvMBtoSIvM1ksrhQ)


Not familiar with this site, but I believe we will see more stories about "who is at fault".  Over the weekend I read theories on who is causing the escalations... I've heard protesters, right wing instigators, far left anarchists, undercover cops and even Russia.  I'm hoping we learn more but I find the fact that bricks show up at all these protests interesting.
Not just bricks. They have found automobiles with no plates loaded with weapons and Molotov cocktails. They have documented people on bikes riding around away from where the protests are to find unmanned please vehicles that can be burned. They have found bottles placed in bushes which our water bottles but filled with flammable content. It’s happening all over the place
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 01, 2020, 11:01:29 AM
The entire point of the upper right circle is that the system protects the bad apples instead of weeding them out. It's why the bad apples feel safe to act the way they do; there are rarely, if ever, consequences.

I believe the vast majority of cops are good. But I think even they feel impotent to bring these other cops in line because they know their departments will shun them if they try to take down the bad apples.
this could be said about federal politicians
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 01, 2020, 11:02:05 AM
Somebody on my FB I went to HS with posted that he wanted all cops fired now and do a restart.

He posts entertaining drivel which is why he's still on my FB.  This was pretty choice.  Others responded so I didn't.


this could be said about federal politicians
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 01, 2020, 11:04:17 AM
The majority of the departments are black in most major cities.

I keep noting that.  Are they racist?  I can see a charge they can tend to be power mad and resort to EF too readily.

Perhaps the issue is not racism, but people in positions of authority becoming very jaded about the public and seeing all of us as grist for their mill, not trusting anyone.


this has been my experience being white and dealing with white cops
also was, part of the criminal justice class I took in college in the early 80's
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2020, 11:04:20 AM
Not familiar with this site,
ZeroHedge is not generally seen as the most credible of sources. 

They're rated as largely a conspiracy theory site: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/zero-hedge/ (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/zero-hedge/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 01, 2020, 11:10:29 AM
If you need to constantly weed out so many bad apples then it’s not basically sound.

The police force and criminal justice system is the furthest thing from sound. It’s fundamentally broken.
"Fundamentally broken" implies that it used to be sound.  I'm not sure that's correct.
Having an effective police force is a hard thing to do.  Police work attracts people who shouldn't be policemen in the same way that adult leadership in the Boy Scouts attracts men who shouldn't be around boys and youth pastoring attracts men who shouldn't be around young people in general.  And being a surgeon attracts sadists.  It's tough in all those cases to weed out the bad apples.
And having a criminal justice system that has a high level of success in accurately determining guilt or innocence, protects the rights of the accused, protects the rights of unpopular minorities, observes due process, and delivers justice in a timely fashion is also hard.
It's very challenging to get all those things right.  I'm not sure that the police/criminal justice system is much better in other countries, although I admit that it's not an area I've studied.
The biggest reason that so many systems are broken is that human beings are broken.  Including us right here posting on how broken this that or the other thing is.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 01, 2020, 11:22:54 AM
The police aren’t racist. I promise. SOME maybe sure. But most aren’t. Most people in general aren’t racist. The police are without a doubt however poorly-trained, under-vetted, and overly militarized. It’s a fucking weird job. I don’t know if any human is even cut out to do that job. And it’s sooo difficult to do that job well. And it’s not easy. At all. And it should be one of the hardest to get. But it’s not. It’s very easy to become one. And they typically don’t want smart people who think for themselves working there. They want mindless brainless people who follow orders and keep their mouths shut.

It’s not a racism thing. It’s not even a minority thing. It’s a class thing. Poor people that don’t have many options or opportunities in their lives tend to turn to crime at a much high rate% than those who grow up with middle class or upper middle class or upper class backgrounds who have many options and opportunities at their disposal.

When my ancestors came here from Italy in the early 1900s, they were all dirt poor. And more than a few of wound up where? As criminals in something called the mafia. They didn’t see a whole lot of options at first, they were treated like shit- and then banned from coming into the US entirely- and many turned to crime. That’s why there were so many jokes in the 1970s by comedians like Richard Pryor and George Carlin that not all Italians were in the mafia, but all of them worked for the mafia.

Italians were a small % of the population then. At that point about 10% of the population. But as a % of the population they were disproportionately engaging in serious crime. Sound familiar?

We have a class problem. We have an income inequality problem. There is an entire class of people who have very little options or a way out. And when many of those people turn to crime to make a living because they want to make a real living and not work a bullshit job that pays them next to nothing- well they’re going to run into police at a much higher rate than people who don’t lead a life of crime.

The police brutalize everyone. Not just black people. Want to cut the amount of police brutality in half- get rid of unconstitutional stop and frisk laws, cut the police force drastically, legalize drugs and end the ridiculously stupid “war on drugs”, de-militarize the police and have them get rid of all their military grade weapons and equipment, get rid of ticket quotas and eliminate cops pulling people over for bullshit reasons just so they can write bullshit tickets, prosecute police for brutality and murder when deserved- stop shielding them with immunity basically- vet candidates way better- make it aloooooot more difficult to become an officer- and make all current officers take polygraph, iq, and personality tests and fire the ones who aren’t fit for the job.

That will all largely end police brutality. For everyone. But will it help pull black people out of poverty? Will it fix completely run down and broken black neighborhoods like Detroit? Probably not. Rich people typically speaking give zero fu***ks about poor people. And the elites in the Democratic and Republican Party have all been captured by big monied interests. And that is who they always take care of first. Barack Obama gave two squirts of piss about the poor or minorities. Just like every president before him. He had Citigroup and Black Rock on speed dial doe.

/End Rant
I agree with most of what you wrote there, including the discrimination against Italian immigrants.  In fact, the largest recorded lynching in American history was of a bunch of Italians (supposedly involved in organized crime) in New Orleans in, IIRC, the first decade of the 20th century.
I'm not sure what time you are referring to with your "10% of the population" figure, but at the time that the U.S. entered WWII, Italian-Americans were the largest single immigrant group.  That's one reason that there was never any effort to round them up and put them in internment camps, as there was with Japanese-Americans.

About this:

Quote
The police brutalize everyone. Not just black people. Want to cut the amount of police brutality in half- get rid of unconstitutional stop and frisk laws, cut the police force drastically, legalize drugs and end the ridiculously stupid “war on drugs”, de-militarize the police and have them get rid of all their military grade weapons and equipment, get rid of ticket quotas and eliminate cops pulling people over for bullshit reasons just so they can write bullshit tickets, prosecute police for brutality and murder when deserved- stop shielding them with immunity basically- vet candidates way better- make it aloooooot more difficult to become an officer- and make all current officers take polygraph, iq, and personality tests and fire the ones who aren’t fit for the job.

Those are good ideas, but the Fraternal Order of Police would oppose a lot of them.  And the FOP is a government union that most urban politicians don't want to have in opposition.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on June 01, 2020, 11:32:02 AM
Most people seem to think I am an ultra right wing conservative, but I don't label myself that or consider myself conservative though quite a bit of my political position fall into conservative ideas. 

So they are surprise how anti dealing with the police I am. I think Cincydawg has it right, it is probably not racism as much as it is an us vs them and they are all up to no good attitude. I have told my kids to be cooperative with the police commands, but do not talk to them. If the cops are wrong we can deal with this after the fact, but I want them to come home uninjured and at least not dead. The was a real white-bread community right next to my very racially mixed community. They were many DWB and DWY pull overs in this community. I warned my black son and my white sons when going through this community, obey every traffic law. They would still find reasons to pull them over. You would go to traffic court in this town of almost 90% white and by far the majority of those waiting for their case to be called were black and those that weren't were mostly young drivers.

I really think that in a lot of ways it is a power thing for most police officers. I learned a long time ago, do not trust that the police are on your side, but don't assume they are the enemy either. Cooperate with commands, but don't say a thing. The most I have talked with a police officer was when I was pulled over once for speeding and the officer asked if he could search my car. I asked did he have to have my permission to search my car and he responded he could call in a drug sniffing dog and get probable cause to search but I would be sitting there a long time while waiting on the dog. I told him, I would wait. He decided to let me go on my way. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on June 01, 2020, 11:38:27 AM
Mdot is right about ending the war on Drugs. You would think we would have learned from alcohol prohibition that it does work and it creates a black market criminal market that leads to crime and violence. If you took the black market and money out of drug trafficing violence in so many of this city would decline because there is no advantage to corner an area for your drug trade and drug addicts won't need to resort to criminal activity to fund their addiction because prices would come down. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 01, 2020, 11:43:49 AM
If you would just come out your shell and say what you really think lol.  😂😂😂😂😂

I hate millennials. We have an entire generation of spoiled entitled ridiculous mostly white idiots who think everyone has the right to never be offended and being “woke” is so cooool man. 

I mostly blame their stupid parents who never whooped their asses when they got out of line. These kids grew up blowing a fit in Target because they only got 1 toy instead of 3, so the parents caved in and got them the other toys just to make them shut up. They grew up yelling and cussing at their parents when they were teenagers because they didn’t get to do whatever they wanted when they wanted. 

When I was growing up there was zero of these compromises. There was no caving. If I blew a fit in a store as a child I was in deep shit. And if I ever swore or cussed at my parents I would’ve gotten a UFC style ass whopping by pops. And you know what, that’s how it should be. My pops was a tough son of a bitch, but he was always there for me and never once did I ever question if I was loved. He showed it all the time. Growing up you say man why is he so hard, but when you get older you learn to appreciate everything and you see he was so hard because of love. 

This world is a motherfucker. It’s dog eat dog and no one will ever just give you shit, you have to go out there and earn it. And you have to fail over and over again and pick yourself up and go at it again until you succeed.

These millennials had parents who always caved in and gave them everything, never had to earn shit. Had parents who treated them like they were their friends and not their fucking parents. These kids all grew up getting participation trophies for getting their asses kicked in sports, instead of getting told they sucked. 

As the great Denzel Washington says, “Ease is a greater threat to progress than hardship.”
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 01, 2020, 11:50:57 AM
" have them get rid of all their military grade weapons"

I chuckled at this.  What would be a weapon that is not "military grade"?

A .22 bolt action rifle?  How about a .223 Ruger Mini-14?

Looks relatively harmless.

(https://i.imgur.com/I8raeob.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 01, 2020, 11:53:40 AM
so a father takes his two teenage boys into a coffee shop to eat lunch

the waitress comes over and asks one of the boys what he wanted to eat

the boy looks up at her and says I want a damn hamburger

with that the father reaches out and slaps the boy across the face

slightly shaken the waitress turns to the other boy and asks what he would like to eat

the boy looked at her and says well you can bet your ass I dont want a damn hamburger
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2020, 12:26:50 PM
" have them get rid of all their military grade weapons"

I chuckled at this.  What would be a weapon that is not "military grade"?

A .22 bolt action rifle?  How about a .223 Ruger Mini-14?

Looks relatively harmless.

(https://i.imgur.com/I8raeob.png)
It's not about firearms.

There's a whole federal program to repurpose old military equipment for police. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1033_program (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1033_program)

I mean, what police force REALLY needs an armored personnel carrier? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 01, 2020, 12:29:21 PM
It's not about firearms.

There's a whole federal program to repurpose old military equipment for police.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1033_program (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1033_program)

I mean, what police force REALLY needs an armored personnel carrier?
Yup.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 01, 2020, 12:36:10 PM
actually APCs are used in swat situations
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 01, 2020, 12:42:08 PM
I think major city police forces do need APCs for obvious reasons.

I don't see having them as being a specific problem, whereas I see not having them as leading to problems.

The Nakatomi Plaza situation is an obvious case in point.

No one should ever forget that disaster.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2020, 01:02:04 PM
actually APCs are used in swat situations
I think APCs are rolled out in SWAT situations. I don't think they're very commonly "used". 

Or more accurately, the question exists: in the absence of having an APC, could the SWAT team effectively neutralize a threat without great risk to their own personnel? 

I'd argue that in most cases they can. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 01, 2020, 01:05:19 PM
Does any of this justify the widespread looting, arson and physical violence being committed?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 01, 2020, 01:09:58 PM
intimidation has long been used by the police force as a tool to control the public and get what they want

some folks push back when intimidated
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 01, 2020, 01:10:31 PM
Does any of this justify the widespread looting, arson and physical violence being committed?
absolutely not


some folks are not logical
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 01, 2020, 01:12:09 PM
Does any of this justify the widespread looting, arson and physical violence being committed?
I don't think anyone is suggesting this is okay.  You're arguing with a wall.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 01, 2020, 01:13:44 PM
I don't think anyone is suggesting this is okay.  You're arguing with a wall.



I am not arguing.  I asked a simple question. 
the conversation here is all about the police. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 01, 2020, 01:20:06 PM
I've yet to see anyone defending obvious cases of excessive force by the police OR the rioting/looting/damage being done by others.

It's pretty easy to be against both obviously.

I interact with police officers almost daily here.  With the COVID thing they have been very evident in the park, I often have a chance to chat briefly with them.  The past few days of course I saw none in the park.  They also often are sitting on a chair outside a large construction project.  I gather at times they are needed to halt traffic or direct pedestrians.  We once wanted to get from A to B and the street was closed and some linemen were working overhead and we were going to turn around and a lady cop said "Hey, come on, I can take you through to the other side.".  She was very pleasant about it, the easier thing for her was to direct us to go around.+
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 01, 2020, 02:25:29 PM
I am not arguing.  I asked a simple question.
the conversation here is all about the police.
The conversation is about the police because the kind of illegal inhumane shit they pull and always get away is horrifically wrong and evil.

The rioters and looters are also wrong. But nobody was rioting and looting until yet another video of a police officer murdering someone in cold blood for no reason whatsoever surfaced.

Biden’s front runner for VP and the medias “liberal” female starlet of the year Amy Kloubacher has blood on her hands. She had the opportunity to prosecute an officer named Derek Chauvin who violated the law and committed acts that would send anyone else to jail when she was a prosecutor in Minnesota. She decided not to pursue that case. Why?What happened not but a decade later? This same piece of shit filth and disgrace of a human being Derek Chauvin murdered someone. Put the white woke Karen in jail with Chauvin if you ask me. She’s actually worse than he is. At least she had the power to do something to seek justice for the victims Chauvin brutalized. And instead of not prosecuting him and putting him behind bars where he belongs, she did nothing. And the asshole murdered someone in cold blood when he should’ve been behind bars. Had she done her fucking duty this would have never happened. Chauvin wouldn’t be a police officer, he’d be behind bars. She chose not to because she’s a typical hypocritical piece of shit politician who says one thing and does another, and who believes in nothing but advancing her political career and glorifying herself.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 01, 2020, 05:24:58 PM
I think APCs are rolled out in SWAT situations. I don't think they're very commonly "used".

Or more accurately, the question exists: in the absence of having an APC, could the SWAT team effectively neutralize a threat without great risk to their own personnel?

I'd argue that in most cases they can.
why should they have to

with kind of logic lets take the dogs and horses away cause they remind me of German guards and the wild wild west
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 01, 2020, 05:39:50 PM
If the police were using APCs to run over protesters, I'd say they should be taken away, but I don't see that.

There are tactical situations where some APCs can mean the difference between control of a bad situation with few/no police casualties and asking your police to go into a very hostile situation with nothing more than body armor.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2020, 05:46:33 PM
why should they have to

with kind of logic lets take the dogs and horses away cause they remind me of German guards and the wild wild west
The concern is simple. When you become equipped like a soldier, you approach the world as if you're at war. 

Have these police departments gone to the people they are sworn to protect and justified why they really really need an APC to do their jobs, and to justify the purchase? No. 

They just need to submit an application to the feds and get it for free. And then they feel like they need to use it, lest it be wasted capability.

Looking at that 1033 program, it seems like MOST of what the feds transfer makes sense. It's not all ridiculous things like APCs.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 01, 2020, 05:51:38 PM
I disagree that having a few APCs that almost always are in storage or used in training has anything to do with how a street patrolman views his job.  It makes zero sense to me.  The officers are out on bikes, motorcycles, cruisers, horses, or on foot, they are not riding around in some APC.  It's irrelevant to them and only used by very specialized elements in extreme situations.

And the average patrolman is not remotely equipped like my son was when in combat.  There is almost no comparison.

You could take out every APC and it would have zero effect on the rank and file.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 01, 2020, 06:17:44 PM
 they remind me of German guards and the wild wild west
(https://i.imgur.com/qCgnH4n.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2020, 06:28:34 PM
I think we overuse SWAT teams, to be honest. 

Taking this back to the war on drugs, we have a problem with no-knock raids where we use a SWAT team to force entry on a house [which is only necessary so they can't flush the drugs], and if we ended the war on drugs, we'd have a lot less use for SWAT teams. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 01, 2020, 07:14:34 PM
I think we overuse SWAT teams, to be honest.

Taking this back to the war on drugs, we have a problem with no-knock raids where we use a SWAT team to force entry on a house [which is only necessary so they can't flush the drugs], and if we ended the war on drugs, we'd have a lot less use for SWAT teams.
No-knock raids result in a lot of bad police shootings.  Especially when they take place in the middle of the night.  At the wrong house.  And the residents believe that it's a home invasion and shoot back.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 01:11:44 AM
I hate millennials. We have an entire generation of spoiled entitled ridiculous mostly white idiots who think everyone has the right to never be offended and being “woke” is so cooool man.

I mostly blame their stupid parents who never whooped their asses when they got out of line. These kids grew up blowing a fit in Target because they only got 1 toy instead of 3, so the parents caved in and got them the other toys just to make them shut up. They grew up yelling and cussing at their parents when they were teenagers because they didn’t get to do whatever they wanted when they wanted.

When I was growing up there was zero of these compromises. There was no caving. If I blew a fit in a store as a child I was in deep shit. And if I ever swore or cussed at my parents I would’ve gotten a UFC style ass whopping by pops. And you know what, that’s how it should be. My pops was a tough son of a bitch, but he was always there for me and never once did I ever question if I was loved. He showed it all the time. Growing up you say man why is he so hard, but when you get older you learn to appreciate everything and you see he was so hard because of love.

This world is a motherfucker. It’s dog eat dog and no one will ever just give you shit, you have to go out there and earn it. And you have to fail over and over again and pick yourself up and go at it again until you succeed.

These millennials had parents who always caved in and gave them everything, never had to earn shit. Had parents who treated them like they were their friends and not their fucking parents. These kids all grew up getting participation trophies for getting their asses kicked in sports, instead of getting told they sucked.

As the great Denzel Washington says, “Ease is a greater threat to progress than hardship.”
Yeah, the "everyone gets a trophy" cohort are now in their 20s.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 02, 2020, 07:01:20 AM
Yeah, the "everyone gets a trophy" cohort are now in their 20s. 
And 30's.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2020, 07:12:41 AM
I'm pretty sure every generation thinks the previous two generations are useless and witless.

And they could well have been right of course.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 02, 2020, 07:38:54 AM
I have a lot of respect for generations prior to mine.  I haven't much respect for the ones who need safe spaces.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2020, 08:44:03 AM
I am not sure I blame entire generations for some fault.  Some specific individuals, certainly.

I am fairly sure grandpa was looking at these kids going off to fight WW II and thinking "We have no chance."

I watched a nice episode last night on Major Dick Winters and a statue they made in Normandy near Brecourt.  He was a class guy by all accounts.  We aim to get back there again, we really enjoyed our visits to Normandy.  

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 02, 2020, 08:55:48 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/r9Xad60.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 02, 2020, 09:17:41 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/r9Xad60.png)
😂😂
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2020, 09:23:46 AM
guys that are 20 years older than me can't get to the bars w/o help
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 02, 2020, 10:31:04 AM
Was planning to leave for Illinois this coming Friday, but with all of the chaos going on, we're going to wait until Monday to leave. We don't want to drive through the hot spots on a weekend. Oh well.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 02, 2020, 10:45:12 AM
I sincerely hope that it all dies down by then, Badge. Good luck.

Bit of drama here last night. Pretty much around the corner there's a CVS pharmacy that closed by ~4:00 PM because there were reports that people were headed there to ransack the place. Around 5:30-6ish we hear screaming outside someone saying "Not my house, not my neighborhood, F*** the President" and got a little worried. Thought maybe if looters had gone and seen a police presence at the CVS they might have rerouted into our neighborhood. And then we see a pickup truck stop in front of our house (going as if to leave the neighborhood) and start backing up like there was something blocking the end of the street. 

I grabbed a baseball bat and the wife called the cops, and we waited wondering what the F was going on. 

Shortly thereafter the neighbors in general were out milling around, so we asked a few what the heck happened as it appeared the situation was clear. Turns out it was just a drunken neighbor screaming into the void on his cellphone. I don't even know what kicked it off. Weird, too, because I've met the guy and he's a horticulturist, and as you might expect from his job, he seems like a pretty hippie-dippy pothead. 

That's enough drama for me. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 02, 2020, 10:56:02 AM
Did I ever mention that at my old house in NW Austin, a guy was shot by police while fence-hopping though my next-door neighbor's backyard, and he later died on the street in front of my house?  It was about midnight on a Thursday, 2 days before Christmas, maybe 9 years ago.

And the weirdest part of the story is that he was one of the longtime suspects of a really brutal 1991 quadruple homicide notoriously labeled "The Yogurt Shop Murders" where a group of young men killed 4 teenage girls in the "I Can't Believe It's Yogurt" store that was only a few blocks from my parents' house.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 02, 2020, 11:16:21 AM
Tough, challenging times. 

At an exec meeting with my company this morning. The topic came up with - should we put out a statement about the current environment like so many other companies have done. 

There was a lot of debate but no agreement because ultimately we understand that no matter what we say it was going to piss off 50% of our customer base.  

Many are offended if you don’t call for an end to the violence, and many are offended if you do. Everyone agrees on the racial injustice and the alarming need to fix it.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 02, 2020, 11:18:13 AM
Yeah, I hope it's over too, but I have grave doubts that it will be. This really sucks, because businesses were just reopening in some of these spots, and now they are forced to close or be ruined. This is not about George Floyd anymore. This is just opportunism now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 02, 2020, 11:23:19 AM
Yeah, I hope it's over too, but I have grave doubts that it will be. This really sucks, because businesses were just reopening in some of these spots, and now they are forced to close or be ruined. This is not about George Floyd anymore. This is just opportunism now.
What makes it hard is- there is so much agreement on what the problem is and that it needs to be fixed and fixed now.

there is also so much agreement on our first amendment right to assemble and protest peacefully.

but it isn’t that simple because mixed in with the peaceful protests are the bad actors hell-bent on destruction and violence and so that leaves us with the question of how to deal with that that’s where the two sides are so split apart.
One side appears to be very heavy-handed and the other side appears to be stoking the flames and encouraging it, and each side is convinced of their approach. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 11:34:05 AM
Colin Kaepernick had the right idea.  And it ended his career.  Fuck everyone who played a hand in that.  And fuck everyone who gave him shit for it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 02, 2020, 11:39:07 AM
Colin Kaepernick had the right idea.  And it ended his career.  Fuck everyone who played a hand in that.  And fuck everyone who gave him shit for it.
He is currently calling for violence.  Fuck him. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 02, 2020, 12:08:30 PM
He can move to China. He has my permission. He can take the rest of the anarchists with him.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 02, 2020, 12:40:47 PM
anyone advocating violence should be considered a piece of crap

in fact it might be considered the same as yelling fire in a crowded theater 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2020, 12:44:42 PM
anyone advocating violence should be considered a piece of crap

in fact it might be considered the same as yelling fire in a crowded theater


It can be illegal, depending on what is said to whom.

Inciting.  I didn't see whatever he said.

Someone needs to explain to me how a couple APCs in a garage somewhere make your average street police officer more aggressive.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 12:57:13 PM
He is currently calling for violence.  Fuck him.
Well non-violence cost him his livelihood.  You're not real big into the "why" behind things, are you?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2020, 12:57:25 PM
Colin Kaepernick had the right idea.  And it ended his career.  Fuck everyone who played a hand in that.  And fuck everyone who gave him shit for it.
Colin had the right idea, he just went about it the wrong way.

disrespecting the flag and the national anthem is not the right way
The flag is a symbol of freedom and equality

Colin had a podium and a microphone and national audience anytime he wanted one - he chose to do something else
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2020, 12:59:18 PM
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out
Don't you know it's gonna be
All right, all right, all right

You say you got a real solution
Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well, you know
We're doing what we can

But if you want money for people with minds that hate
All I can tell is brother you have to wait
Don't you know it's gonna be
All right, all right, all right
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on June 02, 2020, 01:02:14 PM
https://pics.onsizzle.com/why-cant-they-protest-peacefully-but-not-like-that-cant-27952995.png (https://pics.onsizzle.com/why-cant-they-protest-peacefully-but-not-like-that-cant-27952995.png)


there is a lot of truth in this...

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 01:03:02 PM
Colin had the right idea, he just went about it the wrong way.

disrespecting the flag and the national anthem is not the right way
The flag is a symbol of freedom and equality ...in a country that lacks freedom and equality.
Do you really not see this?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 01:05:37 PM
https://pics.onsizzle.com/why-cant-they-protest-peacefully-but-not-like-that-cant-27952995.png (https://pics.onsizzle.com/why-cant-they-protest-peacefully-but-not-like-that-cant-27952995.png)


there is a lot of truth in this...


A certain portion of the population expects things to remain the same.  So no, no type of protest is okay.  Don't protest, just accept how things are and do the best you can.

Too much "know your role" and far too little "unacceptable realities need to change and change now" on this board.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2020, 01:09:40 PM
Do you really not see this?
I do see it.  Everyone sees it.  It's not a secret.

Let's come up with a plan instead of just pissing off other groups of people
throwing rocks at cops isn't going to change anything
taking a knee during the anthem didn't change anything

yes, those stupid acts draw attention to the cause, but that's it

the cause has the attention of the country if not the world at this moment - let's do something constructive
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 01:13:24 PM
the cause has the attention of the country if not the world at this moment - let's do something constructive
What constructive steps do you see the Republican-led Senate and the current president rolling out? 

Paint us a picture.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2020, 01:14:51 PM
Every time these is video of police exceeding their ROEs like this, we have protests, and the protests lead in most cases to riots.  This carries on for some period of time, a week or so in most places, and then life returns to "normal".  You may not like "normal", but I've yet to see any real actions taken to DO anything or CHANGE anything.

The Chiefs of Police will announce some new policies and perhaps install some civilian review board or new training, whatever, and that is that, until it happens again, which it will.

Meet the "new normal", same as the "old normal".

Just with a fig leaf and some flowery prose and blah blah blah.

Let's do something constructive.  Or, really, let's appear to have done something constructive which in reality is burfle.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2020, 01:16:20 PM
that's the problem, no one is putting up a constructive plan

if you're going to wait for the President, good luck

don't know why you would wait for him, you think he's horrible

why not ask some other more thoughtful types, you pick the group you feel has the best handle on this
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2020, 01:16:25 PM
What constructive steps do you see the Republican-led Senate and the current president rolling out?

Paint us a picture.
I think one can ask that of Democrats just as fairly as of Republicans.  The vast majority of big city mayors are Democrats (San Diego is an exception).  Most larger population states have Democratic governors.  The mayors are responsible for the police departments.  What are they doing about this?

Fig leaves.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 02, 2020, 01:24:02 PM
I think one can ask that of Democrats just as fairly as of Republicans.  The vast majority of big city mayors are Democrats (San Diego is an exception).  Most larger population states have Democratic governors.  The mayors are responsible for the police departments.  What are they doing about this?

Fig leaves.
Amen.   Anyone calling for violence, or hiding it ( many liberal media outlets) or supporting it ( Hollywood yahoos and presidential candidate collecting money to bail out those who actually get caught doing it) is not going to achieve ANY worthwhile objective.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 02, 2020, 01:28:05 PM
A certain portion of the population expects things to remain the same.  So no, no type of protest is okay.  Don't protest, just accept how things are and do the best you can.

Too much "know your role" and far too little "unacceptable realities need to change and change now" on this board.
or what
you gonna throw a brick at us
youre real good at raking us over the coals but weve not heard anything of substance
coming from you

a cop killed a black guy and was arrested and charged with murder

if you have some idea to avoid this in the future please feel free to enlighten us


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 01:28:33 PM
I think one can ask that of Democrats just as fairly as of Republicans.  The vast majority of big city mayors are Democrats (San Diego is an exception).  Most larger population states have Democratic governors.  The mayors are responsible for the police departments.  What are they doing about this?

Fig leaves.
So trust in 50 different mayors of 50 different cities with 50 different makeups would be better than, you know, a national leader doing the right thing?  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 01:30:16 PM
or what
you gonna throw a brick at us
youre real good at raking us over the coals but weve not heard anything of substance
coming from you

a cop killed a black guy and was arrested and charged with murder

if you have some idea to avoid this in the future please feel free to enlighten us
The only way I could enlighten you would be to appear on FoxNews.  That's the only way you wouldn't immediately dismiss anything I offered.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 02, 2020, 01:31:00 PM
Every time these is video of police exceeding their ROEs like this, we have protests, and the protests lead in most cases to riots.  This carries on for some period of time, a week or so in most places, and then life returns to "normal".  You may not like "normal", but I've yet to see any real actions taken to DO anything or CHANGE anything.

The Chiefs of Police will announce some new policies and perhaps install some civilian review board or new training, whatever, and that is that, until it happens again, which it will.

Meet the "new normal", same as the "old normal".

Just with a fig leaf and some flowery prose and blah blah blah.

Let's do something constructive.  Or, really, let's appear to have done something constructive which in reality is burfle.
I can think of a few things:


A major problem with a lot of these are that they need to be implemented locally. It would be more helpful to have independent federal oversight of some of these things, but as the police powers are generally state/local, trying to implement a federal police excessive force oversight capability might be questionable from a Constitutional standpoint...

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 01:31:33 PM
Every time these is video of police exceeding their ROEs like this, we have protests, and the protests lead in most cases to riots.  This carries on for some period of time, a week or so in most places, and then life returns to "normal".  You may not like "normal", but I've yet to see any real actions taken to DO anything or CHANGE anything.
Hmm, did you ever wonder why this is?  Who is standing in the way of immediate, sweeping change?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 02, 2020, 01:32:45 PM
What constructive steps do you see the Republican-led Senate and the current president rolling out?

Paint us a picture.
I am still waiting for one single Democrat, at a level of influence ( Pelosi, Schumer, Warren, Sanders, Biden...any of them) to stand up and say stop the rioting, the looting, the merciless beatings of cops and random citizens caught in the vicinity.  I am still waiting for one person on CNN to say that, or one person of influence from ABC, CBS ⎌or NBC news to say that.

crickets.  The President can ask that all he wants ( has numerous times), but do you think those guilty of the mayhem are supporters of his?  Clearly they are not.

that brings us up to date...what is the next step.  Seems like there are 2 choices.   Let the mob, hiding often amongst peaceful protesters,  ontinue to hurt people, property, businesses, landmarks,  or....put it down with non lethal force. 
it appears the first option has been attempted and still is.   Is it working?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 02, 2020, 01:33:53 PM
So trust in 50 different mayors of 50 different cities with 50 different makeups would be better than, you know, a national leader doing the right thing? 

But again, when all this is local, exactly what power does a national leader have to do a "right thing" which is within their legitimate Constitutional power, and/or might require them to herd the cats in the House/Senate to get it done?

(And I say that with the knowledge that a current national leader is doing the exact wrong thing, actively fanning the flames... Suggesting doing the right thing is hard doesn't mean I support what he's doing instead.)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 02, 2020, 01:34:22 PM
Hmm, did you ever wonder why this is?  Who is standing in the way of immediate, sweeping change?
Yes, who is?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 02, 2020, 01:34:52 PM
Hmm, did you ever wonder why this is?  Who is standing in the way of immediate, sweeping change?
The police unions. The city politicians and districts attorney that rely on the political support of the police unions to keep their jobs. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 02, 2020, 01:35:12 PM
The only way I could enlighten you would be to appear on FoxNews.  That's the only way you wouldn't immediately dismiss anything I offered.
try me
what ideas do you have
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 02, 2020, 01:35:59 PM
Amen.  Anyone calling for violence, or hiding it ( many liberal media outlets) or supporting it ( Hollywood yahoos and presidential candidate collecting money to bail out those who actually get caught doing it) is not going to achieve ANY worthwhile objective.
Anyone calling for violence will not achieve a worthwhile objective? Noted.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 02, 2020, 01:37:31 PM
anyone advocating violence should be considered a piece of crap

in fact it might be considered the same as yelling fire in a crowded theater


Reminder that metaphor was used fur suppression of legitimate political speech. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 02, 2020, 01:37:38 PM
I can think of a few things:

  • Implement a more complete review of police with chronic complaints to try to weed out the bad apples before something like this happens.
  • Take the decision of charging/not charging police out of the hands of the DA in the case of police brutality. It should be put in the hands of an independent board.
  • Implement completely anonymous whistleblower systems and strengthen whistleblower protection for individual officers. I continue to believe that there are a lot of officers who hate these bad apples but feel powerless to stop it without ostracizing themselves from their colleagues.

A major problem with a lot of these are that they need to be implemented locally. It would be more helpful to have independent federal oversight of some of these things, but as the police powers are generally state/local, trying to implement a federal police excessive force oversight capability might be questionable from a Constitutional standpoint...


I like this 

maybe a third party review board of police complaints would be practical 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 02, 2020, 01:39:01 PM
Reminder that metaphor was used fur suppression of legitimate political speech.
well thats why we have courts isnt it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 02, 2020, 01:39:11 PM
The only way I could enlighten you would be to appear on FoxNews.  That's the only way you wouldn't immediately dismiss anything I offered.
Part of your your challenge of “ enlightening “ all of us is the arrogant assumption that you are enlightened and nobody who disagrees with you is.

this is not about Fox News.  I fiercely visit all the main sights to get different perspectives as do many other people here.


when I am watching that asshole kill Greg Lloyd, does it matter who filmed it?  When I am watching three men beat a old women mercilessly fists and 2 x 4s , does it matter who filmed it?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 02, 2020, 01:40:30 PM
Anyone calling for violence will not achieve a worthwhile objective? Noted.
Do you disagree?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 02, 2020, 01:43:48 PM
So trust in 50 different mayors of 50 different cities with 50 different makeups would be better than, you know, a national leader doing the right thing?
No.

But failure at the national level doesn't relieve governors and mayors--of whatever state dominated by whichever party--of their responsibilities.  In some areas, governors have more powers than the POTUS does.

Just an observation: It would help you get your points across if you would just make your arguments instead of asking rhetorical questions and putting words in other people's mouths.

Eschew motte-and-Bailey argumentation.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 02, 2020, 01:44:12 PM
well thats why we have courts isnt it
I mean, it was said by a supreme court justice? Who I think might've walked it back to a degree.

Anyway, its meaning is kinda murky and has a bad history. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2020, 01:46:05 PM
Most departments have instituted review boards, they all have IA, they all have a complaints system, and they all WILL continue to have a few bad apples who either make egregious mistakes OR intentionally leverage their authority excessively.

To think "we" haven't tried all sorts of things over the decades is not what I've seen, as if something new is going to make a difference.  I don't buy it.  Call it some new name, claim you are instituting new policies and procedures, and get on with it.

Nothing changed last time, or the time before that, or the time before that, under Obama, under Bush, under Clinton ....

It's not going to change this time either, other than some new lingo and fig leaves.  It won't change the next time either.

But, it feels good to blame Trump, or Democrats, or Liberals, or Right Wingers, or whatever you want, as if this problem has some simple solution and simple cause.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 01:46:11 PM
How should a Democratic leader get 100 million people to become emapthetic?

Why are you utterly incapable of role-reversing this.  If time after time, unarmed white men were murdered by those tasked to serve an protect and nothing came of it??  

I admit it IS hard to fathom BECAUSE IT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN A 2ND TIME.  It would get dealt with and fixed.  This just happens every so often.  Then there's protests and riots.  Then to goes back to how it was.  Then it happens again.

Break the cycle.  Is militarizing the police forces of our cities making it better?  No?  Then stop doing that.  


When you or I see a police officer, it's mostly inane, but it's a plus.  Someone to defend the law, someone who would help us out, someone in public service.  We might be moved to just shake their hand or pay for their meal.  Usually not, but the thought occurs to us.  Maybe thank him for his service or something.  But we also support the officer in our fantasyland ideas, don't we?  Like if something crazy happened and there was a dangerous situation, we'd have that cop's back.  We'd be his support and he could rely on us to help.

Let's flip that around, based on life experience, if we were a minority.
You now see that cop, and he's already scoping you out.  Even though you'd have his back if something dangerous went down, you don't see someone serving and protecting you.  You're on is radar from the moment he saw you.  You look at his gun.  You look to see if he has a partner nearby.  You have to purposely look non-threatening.  Yes, you have to act a certain way, because your true self just might look guilty.  You have to be careful, though, because if you overcompensate, you'll seem odd and he'll approach you.  He'll start asking questions and even though you're just a normal, boring person, he'll find you really interesting.  You'll be really stressed and freaking out inside, but try to keep calm.  But what he's doing is wrong.  Yes, you may be able to just get through this interaction, no big deal, but what the officer is doing is wrong, but if you voice this, the worse than will happen isn't an arrest, it's your life.  


I type all this in vain, because a few of you will read it and scoff.  You'll dismiss it as malarkey and THAT is the problem.  It's reality for millions of people.  THAT is the thing that no mayor or governor or president can change.  Some of your inability or unwillingness to read the above and not immediately dismiss it.  


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 02, 2020, 01:47:09 PM
The police unions. The city politicians and districts attorney that rely on the political support of the police unions to keep their jobs.
Yep.  I read a good essay on this today, but it would probably fan political flames to post it.
It would also help if the SCOTUS would rule on limited liability for police actions.  That may happen this term.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 02, 2020, 01:49:51 PM
Do you disagree?
I'm sure I could concoct some situation where I might, but in the vast majority of situations, I agree. 

But I've seen folks, maybe of a different strand from say a "liberal media" or "Hollywood Elites," advocating for some violence.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 02, 2020, 01:53:07 PM
How should a Democratic leader get 100 million people to become emapthetic?

Why are you utterly incapable of role-reversing this.  If time after time, unarmed white men were murdered by those tasked to serve an protect and nothing came of it?? 

I admit it IS hard to fathom BECAUSE IT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN A 2ND TIME.  It would get dealt with and fixed.  This just happens every so often.  Then there's protests and riots.  Then to goes back to how it was.  Then it happens again.

Break the cycle.  Is militarizing the police forces of our cities making it better?  No?  Then stop doing that. 


When you or I see a police officer, it's mostly inane, but it's a plus.  Someone to defend the law, someone who would help us out, someone in public service.  We might be moved to just shake their hand or pay for their meal.  Usually not, but the thought occurs to us.  Maybe thank him for his service or something.  But we also support the officer in our fantasyland ideas, don't we?  Like if something crazy happened and there was a dangerous situation, we'd have that cop's back.  We'd be his support and he could rely on us to help.

Let's flip that around, based on life experience, if we were a minority.
You now see that cop, and he's already scoping you out.  Even though you'd have his back if something dangerous went down, you don't see someone serving and protecting you.  You're on is radar from the moment he saw you.  You look at his gun.  You look to see if he has a partner nearby.  You have to purposely look non-threatening.  Yes, you have to act a certain way, because your true self just might look guilty.  You have to be careful, though, because if you overcompensate, you'll seem odd and he'll approach you.  He'll start asking questions and even though you're just a normal, boring person, he'll find you really interesting.  You'll be really stressed and freaking out inside, but try to keep calm.  But what he's doing is wrong.  Yes, you may be able to just get through this interaction, no big deal, but what the officer is doing is wrong, but if you voice this, the worse than will happen isn't an arrest, it's your life. 


I type all this in vain, because a few of you will read it and scoff.  You'll dismiss it as malarkey and THAT is the problem.  It's reality for millions of people.  THAT is the thing that no mayor or governor or president can change.  Some of your inability or unwillingness to read the above and not immediately dismiss it. 



still no ideas or suggestions just vague broad strokes of whats wrong
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 01:55:04 PM
The violence is a natural response to outrage with no way to fix the problem.
You see it in kids who have bad things happening at home.  They act out, often violently, at school.  They don't have any power at home to fix the problems, so their outrage comes out around peers, in a place where no one will drunkenly hit them or throw their stuff away.
The quick leap to "we need the rioting to stop, let's focus on the rioters" is a simple ploy to control the narrative.  It moves everyone past the incident and gets them working on the clean-up.  


Another brown person will be murdered by police in a few months.  Then another and another.  And then after 'enough' have been murdered, there will be another outrage-protest-rioting.


And so on and so forth.  Because reasons.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 01:56:13 PM
still no ideas or suggestions just vague broad strokes of whats wrong
I don't know how to fix a lack of empathy for 100 million people.  I'm sorry.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 02, 2020, 01:57:19 PM
OK OAM you are now the President of the United States

Tell us what actual legislation you would propose or executive orders you would make or any other

action you would take to improve race relations in the USA
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 02, 2020, 01:59:53 PM
The violence is a natural response to outrage with no way to fix the problem.
You see it in kids who have bad things happening at home.  They act out, often violently, at school.  They don't have any power at home to fix the problems, so their outrage comes out around peers, in a place where no one will drunkenly hit them or throw their stuff away.
The quick leap to "we need the rioting to stop, let's focus on the rioters" is a simple ploy to control the narrative.  It moves everyone past the incident and gets them working on the clean-up. 


Another brown person will be murdered by police in a few months.  Then another and another.  And then after 'enough' have been murdered, there will be another outrage-protest-rioting.


And so on and so forth.  Because reasons.
no the rioters controlled the narative when then chose to riot

they took away any chance the protesters had to make a difference
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 02, 2020, 02:09:27 PM
The violence is a natural response to outrage with no way to fix the problem.
You see it in kids who have bad things happening at home.  They act out, often violently, at school.  They don't have any power at home to fix the problems, so their outrage comes out around peers, in a place where no one will drunkenly hit them or throw their stuff away.
The quick leap to "we need the rioting to stop, let's focus on the rioters" is a simple ploy to control the narrative.  It moves everyone past the incident and gets them working on the clean-up. 


Another brown person will be murdered by police in a few months.  Then another and another.  And then after 'enough' have been murdered, there will be another outrage-protest-rioting.


And so on and so forth.  Because reasons.
You had me until you said that wanting riots to stop is a ploy.  

you are so off base here. So many non minorities are sickened by what happened, and in your other post ( which was not malarkey) you correctly pointed out that we can’t “ get it” because we don’t deal with it.

but for those who want to fix it, and like most of us don’t know how, asking for the rioting to stop is purely genuine because we simply don’t want to see anyone, of of any color, harmed.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 02, 2020, 02:14:13 PM
I mean, it was said by a supreme court justice? Who I think might've walked it back to a degree.

Anyway, its meaning is kinda murky and has a bad history.
Ok BAB, your general MO around here is one of devil’s advocate. You like to question others a lot, often in a snarky or condescending way.  That’s cool.

although your point that many kinds and types call for violence...why don’t you propose what you think should happen here.  ( I was going to say, what should happen to end the rioting and the injustice, but I am not going to assume, based on things you post, that either of those is necessarily a desired outcome for you)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 02, 2020, 02:15:31 PM
I wish there was a way for someone - anyone - to snap their fingers and make this go away.

It's not happening until trust is established, from all sides.

Task forces are for losers. We need action, for real.

Before she retired, Mrs. 847 was active with her company, in Junior Achievement. It's a worthy program, where people like her would go to schools in depressed areas and try to connect with kids and help show them a way out. 

She was frustrated after a while, because 90 percent of the kids didn't trust her, due to her skin tone.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 02:19:51 PM
OK OAM you are now the President of the United States

Tell us what actual legislation you would propose or executive orders you would make or any other

action you would take to improve race relations in the USA
Actually, the first thing I'd do as president would be to remove all money from 'the news.'  
Producing the news would be a public service and an hour would be set aside for no advertising.  Ratings would not be kept.  If a company wanted to do the news, they'd have to volunteer that time and whatever it cost to do so.  
If 24/7 news channels wanted to continue, they'd do it at their own cost.  

I'd then try to remove money from elections.  Have a set, uniform amount maybe.  If someone wanted the freedom to contribute to a candidate, they could contribute their time.  No more money.  No more buying elections with attack ads to sway the masses.  No more corporations donating as much money as they wanted, turning it into an investment with kickbacks.

As for improving race relations, I couldn't do much.  But I could publicly support minority communities.  I wouldn't attack or demonize them.  I'd try to influence legislation to prevent bad policing (and I'm not sure what that would entail).  If I had this many governors share my political party with me, I'd be trying to influence them to do the right thing, and not bullying them with threats to move the military in.  I'd keep the focus on the unlawful murder of George Floyd, and not on the rioting.  The rioting was predictable.  It was inevitable.  
I'd influence mayors to have police providing space for peaceful protesters.  It's about attitude and influence, and I'd push for solutions to the problem, like you've tasked me with now. 

I wouldn't tear-gas peaceful protesters for a photo op of me literally holding a bible in front of a church to placate an adolescent voting block.  Honestly, if you're a religious republican, how are you not insulted by that?  Toss out the fact that to clear his path, they had to bum-rush hundreds of peaceful protesters.....him just standing there holding a bible that way.....like "okay, I'm doing it, did you get the shot yet?" is just absurd.

Damn, I got off-topic.  Nevermind.  
Anyway, I would never want to be president.  You'd have to be a nutjob to want that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 02:22:03 PM
You had me until you said that wanting riots to stop is a ploy. 

you are so off base here. So many non minorities are sickened by what happened, and in your other post ( which was not malarkey) you correctly pointed out that we can’t “ get it” because we don’t deal with it.

but for those who want to fix it, and like most of us don’t know how, asking for the rioting to stop is purely genuine because we simply don’t want to see anyone, of of any color, harmed.
I believe you want the rioting to stop for good, prudent reasons.  
The ploy is from certain high-up individuals and outlets who understand that they can move the focus off the WHY and move on to the WHAT, thus getting closer to the end and moving on to the next thing.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 02:29:21 PM
I wish there was a way for someone - anyone - to snap their fingers and make this go away.

It's not happening until trust is established, from all sides.

Task forces are for losers. We need action, for real.

Before she retired, Mrs. 847 was active with her company, in Junior Achievement. It's a worthy program, where people like her would go to schools in depressed areas and try to connect with kids and help show them a way out.

She was frustrated after a while, because 90 percent of the kids didn't trust her, due to her skin tone.
That's awesome that she did that, though.
The kids' distrust is useful, though, as they're incapable of bullshit (when it comes to this).  They didn't trust her because of her race because of their life experiences.  You can't fake that.

When 2 cops are walking down the sidewalk in Baltimore or Atlanta or Minneapolis, and there's a group of black teens chilling on a corner, there needs to be a feeling of "what's up" and not "predator/prey" or "cop/criminal".  The kids have to trust the cops and the cops have to know the kids.  I think we all would love this.

This hasn't been discussed much lately, but legalizing weed would really help here.  "You got anything on you?" can go very different ways.
"No, why?" - "Okay, spread 'em"  "Why, man, I said I don't have anything on me!"...etc
or
"Yeah" - "Well wait until you get home, okay" - "Alright"...etc


Anyway, yeah, it has to start there, with youth and maybe 20-somethings, with the positive relationships.  Changing that dynamic is key.  If cops know the people who would organize large protests before they happened, they could communicate together, instead of it being a stand-off.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 02, 2020, 02:38:34 PM
That's awesome that she did that, though.
The kids' distrust is useful, though, as they're incapable of bullshit (when it comes to this).  They didn't trust her because of her race because of their life experiences.  You can't fake that.

Much of that starts at home, based on what they are told by their parents/guardians/siblings. This is another area that needs to be addressed - and it's a hard thing to even think about addressing. How do you do this?

You can send a kid (of any color or creed) to the best school in the city, but if it's not reinforced at home, it will do no good for anyone.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 02, 2020, 02:40:36 PM
Actually, the first thing I'd do as president would be to remove all money from 'the news.' 
Producing the news would be a public service and an hour would be set aside for no advertising.  Ratings would not be kept.  If a company wanted to do the news, they'd have to volunteer that time and whatever it cost to do so. 
If 24/7 news channels wanted to continue, they'd do it at their own cost. 


do away with the first amendment yep good move that way you wouldnt need to put up with opposing views 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 02:42:24 PM
Much of that starts at home, based on what they are told by their parents/guardians/siblings. This is another area that needs to be addressed - and it's a hard thing to even think about addressing. How do you do this?

You can send a kid (of any color or creed) to the best school in the city, but if it's not reinforced at home, it will do no good for anyone.
Absolutely, and that's why I think it has to start with the youth.  You're not going to get a bunch of people who were mistreated their whole lives to suddenly forgive all that and trust that things are ready to improve now.

Which makes them the obstacle to their own self-interest.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 02, 2020, 02:44:20 PM


As for improving race relations, I couldn't do much.  

thats what I thought
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 02:46:15 PM
do away with the first amendment yep good move that way you wouldnt need to put up with opposing views
Yeah, you're wrong here.  Again.
You're free to speak and free to report as the press.  And you're provided time to do so.  But you're not going to allow money/ratings to bastardize it.  The only reason media outets are so different at reporting the same things is to get more eyeballs. 
You're free to use your money to produce the news.  To inform.  Without dollars, you have to EARN eyeballs by providing the best coverage, not that we'd keep track of who gets the most viewers anyway.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 02:46:46 PM
thats what I thought
I believe the phrase is, "you're showing your ass."  


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 02, 2020, 02:48:40 PM
I believe the phrase is, "you're showing your ass." 



😅😂😂

ok that was hilarious
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 02, 2020, 02:50:03 PM
You can send a kid (of any color or creed) to the best school in the city, but if it's not reinforced at home, it will do no good for anyone.
Ed Zachery
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 02, 2020, 02:58:18 PM
Yeah, you're wrong here.  Again.
You're free to speak and free to report as the press.  And you're provided time to do so.  But you're not going to allow money/ratings to bastardize it.  The only reason media outets are so different at reporting the same things is to get more eyeballs. 
You're free to use your money to produce the news.  To inform.  Without dollars, you have to EARN eyeballs by providing the best coverage, not that we'd keep track of who gets the most viewers anyway.
Im sure this would work
Surprised it hasnt been done before
just take the money away and ya got it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 02, 2020, 02:59:02 PM
😅😂😂

ok that was hilarious
Don't laugh it only incourages him
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 02, 2020, 03:02:07 PM
Don't laugh it only incourages him
OAM would you consider becoming Biden's running mate

with your ideas and his trigger quick mind you guys would win in a landslide
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 02, 2020, 03:12:45 PM
Huh - you're lumping me in with him - take that back
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 02, 2020, 03:20:13 PM
I mean, it was said by a supreme court justice? Who I think might've walked it back to a degree.

Anyway, its meaning is kinda murky and has a bad history.
We're talking about Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
Per the Font of All Wisdom and Knowledge:

Quote
Schenck v. United States
In a series of opinions surrounding the World War I Espionage Act of 1917 and the Sedition Act of 1918, he held that the freedom of expression guaranteed by federal and state constitutions simply declared a common-law privilege for speech and the press, even when those expressions caused injury, but that privilege would be defeated by a showing of malice, or intent to do harm. Holmes came to write three unanimous opinions for the Supreme Court that arose from prosecutions under the 1917 Espionage Act because in an earlier case, Baltzer v. United States, he had circulated a powerfully expressed dissent, when the majority had voted to uphold a conviction of immigrant socialists, who had circulated a petition criticizing the draft. Apparently learning that he was likely to publish this dissent, the Government (perhaps alerted by Justice Louis D. Brandeis, newly appointed by President Woodrow Wilson) abandoned the case, and it was dismissed by the Court. The Chief Justice then asked Holmes to write opinions in which they could be unanimous, upholding convictions in three similar cases, where there were jury findings that speeches or leaflets were published with an intent to obstruct the draft, a crime under the 1917 law. Although there was no evidence that the attempts had succeeded, Holmes held for a unanimous Court that an attempt, purely by language, could be prosecuted in cases where the expression, in the circumstances in which it was uttered, posed a "clear and present danger" of causing some harm that the legislature had properly forbidden. In Schenck v. United States, Holmes announced this doctrine for a unanimous Court, famously declaring that the First Amendment could not be understood to provide an absolute right, and would not protect a person "falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic." Although much criticized, Schenck remains an important precedent, and still governs cases in which expressions are intended to cause harm, or threaten to cause imminent lawless action.[24]

Abrams v. United States
Later that year, however, in Abrams v. United States, Holmes was again in dissent. The Wilson Administration was vigorously prosecuting those suspected of sympathies with the recent Russian Revolution, as well as opponents of the war against Germany. The defendants in this case were socialists and anarchists, recent immigrants from Russia who opposed the apparent efforts of the United States to intervene in the Russian Civil War. They were charged with violations of the 1918 amendments to the Espionage Act which were known as the Sedition Act of 1918, and which purported to make criticisms of the government and the war effort a crime. Abrams and his co-defendants were charged with distributing leaflets that in Yiddish called for a "general strike" to protest the US intervention in Russia. A majority of the Court voted to uphold the convictions and sentences of ten and twenty years, to be followed by deportation. Holmes was moved to dissent. The majority claimed to be following the precedents already set in Schenck and the companion cases in which Holmes had written for the Court, but Holmes insisted that the defendants' leaflets neither threatened to cause any harm, nor showed the specific intent to hinder the war effort. Holmes condemned the Wilson Administration's prosecution, and its insistence on draconian sentences for the defendants in passionate language: "Even if I am technically wrong [regarding the defendants' intent] and enough can be squeezed from these poor and puny anonymities to turn the color of legal litmus paper ... the most nominal punishment seems to be all that possibly could be inflicted, unless the defendants are to be made to suffer, not for what the indictment alleges, but for the creed that they avow ..." Holmes then went on to explain the importance of freedom of thought in a democracy:

Quote
[W]hen men have realized that time has upset many fighting faiths, they may come to believe ... that the best test of truth is the power of the thought to get itself accepted in the competition of the market, and that truth is the only ground upon which their wishes can safely be carried out. That, at any rate, is the theory of Constitution. It is an experiment, as all life is an experiment.
In writing this dissent, Holmes may have been influenced by Zechariah Chafee's article "Freedom of Speech in War Time".[25][26] Chafee had criticized Holmes's opinion in Schenck for failing to express in more detail and more clearly the common-law doctrines upon which he relied. In his Abrams dissent, Holmes did elaborate somewhat on the decision in Schenck, roughly along the lines that Chafee had suggested. Although Holmes evidently believed that he was adhering to his own precedent, some later commentators accused Holmes of inconsistency, even of seeking to curry favor with his young admirers.[27] In Abrams, the majority opinion did rely on the clear-and-present-danger formulation of Schenck, claiming that the leaflets showed the necessary intent, and ignoring the point that they were unlikely to have any effect. In later opinions, the Supreme Court departed from this line of reasoning where the validity of a statute was in question, adopting the principle that a legislature could properly declare that some forms of speech posed a clear and present danger, regardless of the circumstances in which they were uttered. Holmes continued to dissent.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2020, 03:23:25 PM
Many problems and issues in life simply do not have a practicable solution.  People sell fig leaves to try and sound like a solution for PR, but they often are not real solutions, and do nothing but waste time and money.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 02, 2020, 03:25:26 PM
Yeah, you're wrong here.  Again.
You're free to speak and free to report as the press.  And you're provided time to do so.  But you're not going to allow money/ratings to bastardize it.  The only reason media outets are so different at reporting the same things is to get more eyeballs. 
You're free to use your money to produce the news.  To inform.  Without dollars, you have to EARN eyeballs by providing the best coverage, not that we'd keep track of who gets the most viewers anyway.
You know that's the logic behind the Citizens United SCOTUS decision, don't you?
It's a decision I support, but I'm a bit surprised to see you aligning with its logic.
Yes, freedom of the press--just like freedom of speech--applies to everyone, not just companies that have "Times" or "Post" or "Herald," or "ABC" or "NBC" or CBS" or "Fox News" in their names.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 03:35:14 PM
You know that's the logic behind the Citizens United SCOTUS decision, don't you?
It's a decision I support, but I'm a bit surprised to see you aligning with its logic.
Yes, freedom of the press--just like freedom of speech--applies to everyone, not just companies that have "Times" or "Post" or "Herald," or "ABC" or "NBC" or CBS" or "Fox News" in their names.
Citizens United allowed unlimited money into political campaigns.  I'm against that.  (see Coch bros)

I'm against advertisting/ratings for newscasts.  Way back in the day, the gov't set aside an hour per day for the news, because our country depends on an informed electorate.  It eventually became the evening news.  

I'm not aware that Citizen's United calls to pull all monies from those networks, during that set-aside time.  I simply think it was a failure of prediction for the gov't to have wanted an informed electorate, but failed to address the financials.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2020, 03:36:40 PM
Citizens United allowed unlimited money into political campaigns.  I'm against that.  (see Coch bros)

Um .....

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2020, 03:37:28 PM
How should a Democratic leader get 100 million people to become emapthetic?

Why are you utterly incapable of role-reversing this.  If time after time, unarmed white men were murdered by those tasked to serve an protect and nothing came of it?? 
do you think white cops and black cops haven't killed unarmed white men and continue to do so?  Or that black cops haven't killed black men?

it may not happen as often as white cops and black men, but this isn't ALL about race.

IMO, it's more about abuse of power and authority, without accountability

w/o the video, there would be no accountability here.

my suggestion is to require cops to wear and record their activities with a body camera.  This is just an idea, but I feel it could easily be done and it could easily help
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 02, 2020, 03:43:37 PM
Citizens United allowed unlimited money into political campaigns.  I'm against that.  (see Coch bros)
It was a previous decision that stated money=speech, and you can't stop people from speaking.

All Citizens United did was say that the act of forming a corporate entity doesn't mean you can't use your money to speak.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 03:44:13 PM
my suggestion is to require cops to wear and record their activities with a body camera.  This is just an idea, but I feel it could easily be done and it could easily help
I thought was already a thing.  If not, then $$$ funding $$$ is probably the culprit.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2020, 03:45:21 PM
And it did not somehow allow unlimited money to flow to political campaigns, meaning the campaigns of specific politicians of course.

The main thing it enabled was union spending on SuperPACs.

I'm not sure how changing that prevents cops from using excessive force.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 03:45:53 PM
It was a previous decision that stated money=speech, and you can't stop people from speaking.

All Citizens United did was say that the act of forming a corporate entity doesn't mean you can't use your money to speak.
Yeah, that's horse shit.  It was dead-wrong from the moment it passed.  Money needs to be removed from speech, not synonymous with it.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2020, 03:46:46 PM
hah, they blame funding, but there has been considerable push back from police departments and their unions

even in Iowa

I think it's VERY telling

they know what they are doing and they certainly do NOT want to be accountable
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2020, 03:47:52 PM
So, if I'm very wealthy and wish to espouse my opinion using said money, I shouldn't be able to do that?

I don't even know how that could be enforced were it the law.  It's pretty easy to fund a "mockumentary" or whatever to get an opinion across.

And CU was specifically about a film on Hillary.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 03:48:54 PM
And it did not somehow allow unlimited money to flow to political campaigns, meaning the campaigns of specific politicians of course.

The main thing it enabled was union spending on SuperPACs.

I'm not sure how changing that prevents cops from using excessive force.
It's unrelated (or specifically, 100 steps from one to the other).

The specifics don't change the fact that it allows one entity to sprinkle infinite money across campaigns, across districts and states, influencing elections AND superpacs to outspend up to national campaigns.

It's wrong.  It's mimicking the legal system, in which the wealthier you are, the better.  Wealth should be irrelevant in terms of guilt/innocence and worthiness of holding public office.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 03:49:35 PM
hah, they blame funding, but there has been considerable push back from police departments and their unions

even in Iowa

I think it's VERY telling

they know what they are doing and they certainly do NOT want to be accountable
No one who's previously not been held accountable wants to suddenly be held accountable.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 02, 2020, 03:50:19 PM
The statistics for police killings don't show a significant disparity in the racial makeup of victims when controlled for the circumstances.  In fact, there's a slight, probably statistically insignificant, difference showing that cops are more likely to shoot a white, under the same circumstances.  It's the cops' excessive hassling of young black men that ruins everything and makes black people distrust and disrespect the police.  Along with, unfortunately, the fact that young black men are the demographic that commits a disproportionate percentage of crimes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 02, 2020, 03:50:35 PM
Yeah, you're wrong here.  Again.
You're free to speak and free to report as the press.  And you're provided time to do so.  But you're not going to allow money/ratings to bastardize it.  The only reason media outets are so different at reporting the same things is to get more eyeballs. 
You're free to use your money to produce the news.  To inform.  Without dollars, you have to EARN eyeballs by providing the best coverage, not that we'd keep track of who gets the most viewers anyway.
How's that work, then? 

How do you determine whether someone is a news organization and thereby unable to earn advertising?

What about, say, The Daily Show? I'd argue they are an entertainment program, but they also report the news. Do we take away their advertising?

What about opinion shows? After all, Hannity doesn't report the news; that's not his purpose. Fox News spends most of the daytime reporting news but their evening programming is all opinion shows. Can Hannity still have his shows and earn advertising dollars? 

If you say Hannity can't have his show, you're throwing the first amendment out the door. If you say Hannity CAN have his show because it's an opinion show and not "press", then you're just going to have more and more opinion shows and making the problem worse.

To put it bluntly; this is a terrible idea.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 02, 2020, 03:55:12 PM
Yeah, that's horse shit.  It was dead-wrong from the moment it passed.  Money needs to be removed from speech, not synonymous with it.
OK.  How and when do I--with no large stash of money--get the same platform as the one that the Washington Post has?  Or Fox News?  Do those two entities have to divest themselves of money and operated on donations from passersby?
"Money needs to be removed from speech" is just cant.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2020, 03:56:00 PM
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - With cities across America in turmoil over the death of George Floyd, a U.S. lawmaker plans to introduce legislation this week that he hopes will end a pattern of police violence by allowing victims to sue officers for illegal and unconstitutional acts.

U.S. Representative Justin Amash, a former Republican turned Libertarian, won support from a Minneapolis Democrat on Monday for his “Ending Qualified Immunity Act,” which would allow civil lawsuits against police, a recourse that the Supreme Court has all but done away with.

The high court's adoption (here) of the qualified immunity doctrine has largely shielded police from financial settlements for victims or grieving families. The doctrine protects cops even when courts determine that officers violate civil rights, a Reuters investigation showed here


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-congress-idUSKBN23831W?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A%20Trending%20Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR38JBY9NeUROBOhmZ_wRs1JQNdZzNZ8bfF6BKNw2QXIha7dRj5uOZO7Z9g (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-congress-idUSKBN23831W?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A Trending)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 03:56:39 PM
So, if I'm very wealthy and wish to espouse my opinion using said money, I shouldn't be able to do that?

I don't even know how that could be enforced were it the law.  It's pretty easy to fund a "mockumentary" or whatever to get an opinion across.

And CU was specifically about a film on Hillary.


You should be free to use your wealth independently.  I think the whole idea of the media is an obvious, dangerous line when it comes to politics.  
The founding fathers couldn't anticipate one person directly influencing millions of people every day.  
Charles Koch is free to donate the same max amount to a campaign as you or I.
Fox is free to continue providing the news.

But beyond that, no.  One man shouldn't be donating to 30 different races, including districts he's never even been to.  No, news channels shouldn't provide 1% news and 99% commentary in an attempt to attract viewers to gain advertisers.  

It's all broken.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2020, 03:58:49 PM
I'm a white people and I distrust and disrespect the police.

yes, past experiences with them

I'd feel better if they had a video camera on at all times they are interacting with me.

there are plenty of "good" cops and deputies.  I just haven't met many.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 04:00:28 PM
How's that work, then?

How do you determine whether someone is a news organization and thereby unable to earn advertising?

What about, say, The Daily Show? I'd argue they are an entertainment program, but they also report the news. Do we take away their advertising?

What about opinion shows? After all, Hannity doesn't report the news; that's not his purpose. Fox News spends most of the daytime reporting news but their evening programming is all opinion shows. Can Hannity still have his shows and earn advertising dollars?

If you say Hannity can't have his show, you're throwing the first amendment out the door. If you say Hannity CAN have his show because it's an opinion show and not "press", then you're just going to have more and more opinion shows and making the problem worse.

To put it bluntly; this is a terrible idea.
Hannity is free to have a show, just not on a "news channel".  To be honest, I doubt news channels should even exist, but whatever.

I don't know about the Daily Show, that's a tough one.  I assume "news" would have to be very specifically defined and programs like the Daily Show and Hannity would toe that line, perhaps trying to blur it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 02, 2020, 04:00:31 PM
Yeah, that's horse shit.  It was dead-wrong from the moment it passed.  Money needs to be removed from speech, not synonymous with it. 
Yeah, problem is that if you don't have any money, the only people who can hear your speech are within a 20 ft radius.

Want to send out a direct mailer on a political topic? Sorry, can't do that, because paper and postage cost money, and money isn't speech.

Want to take out a radio ad about a political topic that you're passionate about? Sorry, can't do that, because airtime costs money and money isn't speech.

The local network news wants to have a guest on their nightly broadcast who might talk about something political? Sorry, can't do that because FCC licenses and broadcast towers are REALLY expensive, and money isn't speech.

I guess nobody can talk about politics except over the fence to their neighbor, and that'll solve the problem!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 02, 2020, 04:01:23 PM
I'm sure I could concoct some situation where I might, but in the vast majority of situations, I agree.

But I've seen folks, maybe of a different strand from say a "liberal media" or "Hollywood Elites," advocating for some violence.
Yep.

We've got antifa on one side and the alt-right on the other both advocating violence.
Antifa is purposely escalating lawful, legitimate protest into violence and destruction, while the alt-right is shouting "shoot to kill the looters!"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 04:02:55 PM
OK.  How and when do I--with no large stash of money--get the same platform as the one that the Washington Post has?  Or Fox News?  Do those two entities have to divest themselves of money and operated on donations from passersby?
"Money needs to be removed from speech" is just cant.
For an individual like you or me, to gain a news platform, would have to become a journalist or a newscaster.  Or become an expert in a field in which you'd be a source for said platforms.  

I understand that it may seem nonsensical to peel money from speech, but I'm committing the sin of what SHOULD be.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2020, 04:05:13 PM
You should be free to use your wealth independently.  I think the whole idea of the media is an obvious, dangerous line when it comes to politics. 
The founding fathers couldn't anticipate one person directly influencing millions of people every day. 
Charles Koch is free to donate the same max amount to a campaign as you or I.
Fox is free to continue providing the news.

But beyond that, no.  One man shouldn't be donating to 30 different races, including districts he's never even been to.  No, news channels shouldn't provide 1% news and 99% commentary in an attempt to attract viewers to gain advertisers. 

It's all broken.
Koch is now limited in campaign donations to the same limit I am.  I don't understand your beef.

Nor what this has to do with police violence.

I don't think your understand the CU opinion.

For that, we need to look at another court case — SpeechNow.org v. FEC (https://publicintegrity.org/2017/11/15/21255/modern-history-campaign-finance-watergate-citizens-united). The lower-court case used the Citizens United case as precedent when it said that limits on contributions to groups that make independent expenditures are unconstitutional.

And that’s what led to the creation of the super PACs, which act as shadow political parties. They accept unlimited donations from billionaires, corporations and unions and use it to buy advertising, most of it negative.



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 04:07:51 PM
Okay, but what about Koch's companies?  Are there limits on what they can donate?  If he has 30 companies, can they make 30 massive contributions?  


There's got to be a way to reel this in.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2020, 04:09:30 PM
Okay, but what about Koch's companies?  Are there limits on what they can donate?  If he has 30 companies, can they make 30 massive contributions? 


There's got to be a way to reel this in.
No, they cannot make "massive contributions" legally under FEC laws.  You have this really badly wrong in your head.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 02, 2020, 04:10:08 PM
No, they cannot make "massive contributions" legally under FEC laws.  You have this really badly wrong in your head.
They can make massive contributions to Super PACs.

They cannot make massive contributions to politicians or political parties.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 04:10:14 PM
btw, I really appreciate all of you guys.  

Sometimes I want to pull my hair out and we get pissy, but I would march/protest for you to give your opinions that disagree with mine.  

We all just want people to live good lives and take care of each other, as fantastical as that may forever be.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 02, 2020, 04:10:25 PM
Actually, the first thing I'd do as president would be to remove all money from 'the news.' 
Producing the news would be a public service and an hour would be set aside for no advertising.  Ratings would not be kept.  If a company wanted to do the news, they'd have to volunteer that time and whatever it cost to do so. 
If 24/7 news channels wanted to continue, they'd do it at their own cost.
Fortunately, the president does not have the power to wave his mighty hand and "remove all money from 'the news.'"
24/7 news channels already do it at their own cost.  They defray those costs with advertising.
How do you find a way to allow Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert and every other late-night comedian to continue to make political comments but ban Sean Hannity from making his?
Are you, as POTUS, going to censor entertainment shows to make sure that nothing political is said?
BTW, political speech is the fundamental reason for the 1st Amendment.  The Framers weren't ensuring that pornographers faced no scrutiny; it was all about the most important speech of all--speech criticizing the government.  And press for exactly the same reason.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 04:10:41 PM
They can make massive contributions to Super PACs.

They cannot make massive contributions to politicians or political parties.
annnnnd the super pacs can make massive contributions to politicians/parties?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 02, 2020, 04:13:03 PM
do you think white cops and black cops haven't killed unarmed white men and continue to do so?  Or that black cops haven't killed black men?

it may not happen as often as white cops and black men, but this isn't ALL about race.

IMO, it's more about abuse of power and authority, without accountability

w/o the video, there would be no accountability here.

my suggestion is to require cops to wear and record their activities with a body camera.  This is just an idea, but I feel it could easily be done and it could easily help
Unfortunately, police unions mostly oppose this.  And that is part of the problem too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 04:14:32 PM
Fortunately, the president does not have the power to wave his mighty hand and "remove all money from 'the news.'"
24/7 news channels already do it at their own cost.  They defray those costs with advertising.
How do you find a way to allow Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert and every other late-night comedian to continue to make political comments but ban Sean Hannity from making his?
Are you, as POTUS, going to censor entertainment shows to make sure that nothing political is said?
BTW, political speech is the fundamental reason for the 1st Amendment.  The Framers weren't ensuring that pornographers faced no scrutiny; it was all about the most important speech of all--speech criticizing the government.  And press for exactly the same reason.
I wouldn't ban anyone from making political comments, but I'd differentiate news channels and non-news channels.  Hannity and Stewart (outdated, it's Trevor Noah) could produce the same shows they do now, just not on designated "news" networks.  
So basically nothing would change for the Daily Show and either Hannity would have to move to a different, non-news channel or Fox News would no longer warrant the "news channel" distinction.


I'm not anti-first amendment here, I think I'm just wanting a designation of news vs non-news.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2020, 04:14:57 PM
annnnnd the super pacs can make massive contributions to politicians/parties?
NO, they cannot, legally, at all.  You are way off on this.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 04:16:34 PM
People watch MSNBC and FoxNews and think they're watching "the news", when they largely aren't.  They're watching an avalanche of commentary and spin.  

There needs to be a separation, because the populace isn't smart enough or is too lazy to care.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2020, 04:16:40 PM
My simple political speech partial solution is to ban the use of anyone's NAME in any ad EXCEPT your own candidate's name if it's your campaign's ad.  Super PACs can run "issue ads" but they cannot mention the name of an individual.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 04:17:12 PM
NO, they cannot, legally, at all.  You are way off on this.

Calm down, hence the question mark.  I'm asking.  Have a conversation, quit REACTING.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 02, 2020, 04:18:40 PM
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - With cities across America in turmoil over the death of George Floyd, a U.S. lawmaker plans to introduce legislation this week that he hopes will end a pattern of police violence by allowing victims to sue officers for illegal and unconstitutional acts.

U.S. Representative Justin Amash, a former Republican turned Libertarian, won support from a Minneapolis Democrat on Monday for his “Ending Qualified Immunity Act,” which would allow civil lawsuits against police, a recourse that the Supreme Court has all but done away with.

The high court's adoption (here) of the qualified immunity doctrine has largely shielded police from financial settlements for victims or grieving families. The doctrine protects cops even when courts determine that officers violate civil rights, a Reuters investigation showed here

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-congress-idUSKBN23831W?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A%20Trending%20Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR38JBY9NeUROBOhmZ_wRs1JQNdZzNZ8bfF6BKNw2QXIha7dRj5uOZO7Z9g (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-congress-idUSKBN23831W?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A Trending)
This is a very solid idea.  I was disappointed that Amash decided not to run for the Libertarian Party's nomination, but I think that he realized that he would probably take more votes from Biden than from Trump.
Qualified immunity was questionable when the SCOTUS enunciated it in (IIRC) 1982, and the interpretations of it since have just gone more in the direction of shielding police officers and other public officials from their own bad actions.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 02, 2020, 04:29:27 PM
You should be free to use your wealth independently.  I think the whole idea of the media is an obvious, dangerous line when it comes to politics. 
The founding fathers couldn't anticipate one person directly influencing millions of people every day. 
Charles Koch is free to donate the same max amount to a campaign as you or I.
Fox is free to continue providing the news.

But beyond that, no.  One man shouldn't be donating to 30 different races, including districts he's never even been to.  No, news channels shouldn't provide 1% news and 99% commentary in an attempt to attract viewers to gain advertisers. 

It's all broken.
It may all be broken, but you can't defend your position on any moral or philosophical principle.  You don't like who Charles Koch (not even on the list of top 100 donors according to OpenSecrets.org (https://www.opensecrets.org/overview/topindivs.php)) donates to, so you want to limit his ability to donate.  He can donate to one campaign, but not to 30?  Why?  Could he be "allowed" to donate to two campaigns?  How about three?  Where and how and on what principle do you draw the line and say, "No more donations by you"?
Where are your calls to keep George Soros (the number 15 donor) from donating money?  Or Thomas Steyer, the number one donor?
Surely you are not just saying that you want people who disagree with you to be prohibited from donating?
As an aside, I do not understand the antipathy toward the Koch brothers.  They are (or in the case of David Koch, were) basically libertarians.  Many of the causes they support I do not support.  But for them to have been presented by--ahem!--one end of the political spectrum as the source of all evil in politics is just ludicrous.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2020, 04:33:18 PM
OAM is just flailing in my view with half facts and complete misunderstandings of election law.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 02, 2020, 04:35:07 PM
For an individual like you or me, to gain a news platform, would have to become a journalist or a newscaster.  Or become an expert in a field in which you'd be a source for said platforms. 

I understand that it may seem nonsensical to peel money from speech, but I'm committing the sin of what SHOULD be.
I have to become a "journalist"?  What does that mean?  Do I have to get a license?

You've got government determining who can and who can't speak further than (to use Bwarb's example) further than across the fence to his neighbor.  That's not what we fought the British for 8 years to establish.
That's not what the great civil libertarians--including 19th-century abolitionists like Frederick Douglass and William Lloyd Garrison--have fought to sustain.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 02, 2020, 04:37:57 PM
annnnnd the super pacs can make massive contributions to politicians/parties?
No.  They cannot donate to the parties or to individual politicians.  They can make ads in favor of issues.  The may not coordinate these ads with political campaigns under penalty of law.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 02, 2020, 04:38:35 PM
As an aside, I do not understand the antipathy toward the Koch brothers.  They are (or in the case of David Koch, were) basically libertarians.  Many of the causes they support I do not support.  But for them to have been presented by--ahem!--one end of the political spectrum as the source of all evil in politics is just ludicrous.
The Kochs, like Citizens United, are something that is thrown out by people on the left who don't understand the issues as a catchall bogeyman for things they don't like and are ruining the country.

Just as the right does that to Soros and the "liberal media".

It's so much easier to come up with the amorphous bogeyman behind the scenes, and if we could fix this one simple thing we'd have a functioning political system again. And the one simple thing always, ALWAYS, is believed to benefit our opponents more than ourselves.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 02, 2020, 04:42:15 PM
The Kochs, like Citizens United, are something that is thrown out by people on the left who don't understand the issues as a catchall bogeyman for things they don't like and are ruining the country.

Just as the right does that to Soros and the "liberal media".

It's so much easier to come up with the amorphous bogeyman behind the scenes, and if we could fix this one simple thing we'd have a functioning political system again. And the one simple thing always, ALWAYS, is believed to benefit our opponents more than ourselves.
Our donors are always public-spirited good guys.  Their guys are always evildoers hell-bent on undermining the foundations of the Republic.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 04:45:36 PM
Surely you are not just saying that you want people who disagree with you to be prohibited from donating?

No, I'm talking about anyone - the Koch Bros are just someone everyone knows.  

And I'm not suggesting they can't donate.  I'm saying a billionaire should not be able to donate more than I can, when it comes to political campaigns.  Campaigns should earn more based on the number of donations, not the amounts.  If this is already the case, then great.  

Is there something horrible with me wanting it limited to your own, home district/county/state?  I don't like the fact that a billionaire can sprinkle their money among 12 different, tight races to sway them all one way.  

I guess I'm just wanting equality in political monies.  How dare I.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 04:46:20 PM
Our donors are always public-spirited good guys.  Their guys are always evildoers hell-bent on undermining the foundations of the Republic.
Yeah, it was just about name recognition, guys.  FFS

Both parties are corrupt and broken.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2020, 04:46:35 PM
Start by getting your facts straight instead of making things up from what you think you heard.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 04:48:34 PM
Start by getting your facts straight instead of making things up from what you think you heard.


Fuck off.  I asked a question and you went off on me, and continue to.  


?  - THIS IS A QUESTION MARK.  When it is used, a question is being asked.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 02, 2020, 04:49:42 PM
I guess nobody can talk about politics except over the fence to their neighbor, and that'll solve the problem!
Worked for Wilson and Tim on "Home Improvement"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 02, 2020, 04:51:14 PM
Fuck off.  I asked a question and you went off on me, and continue to. 


?  - THIS IS A QUESTION MARK.  When it is used, a question is being asked. 
Does somebody need a hug or a time out?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 04:51:58 PM
Does somebody need a hug or a time out?
He's trying to penalize me for seeking information.  He needs an adult diaper change.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2020, 04:55:28 PM
Run all the ads and buy all the media you'd like

the individual running for office should not be allowed to take money/bribes

the office should pay a decent salary say, $100,000 a year or $150,000.  Plus expenses.

No, not expenses to take the family to Hawaii each month

the individual running and then elected should surrender tax records/financials before entering office and after  exiting office to make sure illegal contributions were not taken.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2020, 04:56:38 PM
Does somebody need a hug or a time out?
Dr. Fauci doesn't approve of hugs
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on June 02, 2020, 04:58:02 PM
https://twitter.com/weslyinfinity/status/1267321172309544960?s=20


You have to understand that freedom of speech means you will hear things you don't like... but when you have the badge and the weapons, you can't be thin skinned. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 02, 2020, 04:59:31 PM
Fuck off.  I asked a question and you went off on me, and continue to. 


?  - THIS IS A QUESTION MARK.  When it is used, a question is being asked.
Mmmm.  Sometimes the "?" is a snarky rhetorical question.

So sometimes it gets a snarky response when this time you meant it as a legitimate question.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 02, 2020, 05:00:15 PM
He's trying to penalize me for seeking information.  He needs an adult diaper change.
You realize that you're wading into a political debate talking about all the things that you think need to be changed, and nearly everything you said during the course of the debate revealed that you didn't have a mastery of the basic facts of the argument.

It's frustrating to argue against that. If you have command of the facts but a different position based on those facts, that's one thing. But when you're making basic errors on the facts, but using them to declare what "should" happen, it a pain in the arse to try to both educate you on the facts and also then spend time telling you why we disagree with your opinions which were based on wrong facts.

Couple that with the fact that you (and it's not just you, there are a few other people here) have very, let's say, "haughty" debate styles dismissive of anyone who disagrees as if they're a rube, and yet you don't get basic facts right? It's maddening.

Arguments aren't fun when one party brings a slingshot to a gunfight. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on June 02, 2020, 05:00:26 PM
Another perspective...

https://twitter.com/Holly14990603/status/1267781261277433856/photo/1
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 05:01:52 PM
Mmmm.  Sometimes the "?" is a snarky rhetorical question.

So sometimes it gets a snarky response when this time you meant it as a legitimate question.
Well I explained that it was an actual question already, so he can go take his nap.  


Let's get snarky:  COVID victimizes the elderly at a severe rate?  Damn, there goes 100,000+ republican votes, down the drain.  Trump must not be good at math.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2020, 05:02:51 PM
It's been my experience that if I stand toe-to-toe with officers and shout at them, I get my ass kicked

no, I was not protesting the past few evenings

back in my youth, I fought the law,........ and the law won.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 02, 2020, 05:03:39 PM

https://twitter.com/weslyinfinity/status/1267321172309544960?s=20


You have to understand that freedom of speech means you will hear things you don't like... but when you have the badge and the weapons, you can't be thin skinned.
The video didn't play.
But it looks to me like the force that wouldn't let black demonstrators inside what I think is the train station is the Kansas City P.D., whereas the force that let the white demonstrators in the state capitol was the Michigan highway patrol/state troopers.
If that's so, it's kind of an apples-and-oranges comparison.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2020, 05:04:48 PM
Well I explained that it was an actual question already, so he can go take his nap. 


Let's get snarky:  COVID victimizes the elderly at a severe rate?  Damn, there goes 100,000+ republican votes, down the drain.  Trump must not be good at math. 
why would older folks like Trump?  Wouldn't older folks have more experience and be smarter?

Biden doesn't have elderly supporters?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 05:05:41 PM
The video didn't play.
But it looks to me like the force that wouldn't let black demonstrators inside what I think is the train station is the Kansas City P.D., whereas the force that let the white demonstrators in the state capitol was the Michigan highway patrol/state troopers.
If that's so, it's kind of an apples-and-oranges comparison.
No.
A man was shouting at them and the cops rushed towards the line of protesters, pepper sprayed them, and yanked him out of the crowd.
While they allowed armed white people to scream in their faces without doing anything.



White privilege is every breath we take.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 05:06:18 PM
why would older folks like Trump?  Wouldn't older folks have more experience and be smarter?

Biden doesn't have elderly supporters?
Sigh.
I'm not even.  You're being an ass.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2020, 05:06:53 PM
you started it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on June 02, 2020, 05:08:12 PM
The video didn't play.
But it looks to me like the force that wouldn't let black demonstrators inside what I think is the train station is the Kansas City P.D., whereas the force that let the white demonstrators in the state capitol was the Michigan highway patrol/state troopers.
If that's so, it's kind of an apples-and-oranges comparison.


the guy was 20-25 ft away... and basically yelled at the police about brutality.  They rushed him, sprayed the crowd and dragged him away.  It was not at all a good show by the cops.  I know it is only one example, but they have to be better.  The crowd was not at all near them or threatening.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 05:10:21 PM
The video didn't play.  Hmm.  A lot like no republican senators seemed to see Trump's photo op with the bible in front of the church, tear-gassing peaceful protesters.


I don't like Trump, duh.

I don't like Biden, either.  But I'll say again, I would take a citizen chosen at random over our current president.  I'd take any of you over him.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 02, 2020, 05:10:58 PM
No, I'm talking about anyone - the Koch Bros are just someone everyone knows. 

And I'm not suggesting they can't donate.  I'm saying a billionaire should not be able to donate more than I can, when it comes to political campaigns.  Campaigns should earn more based on the number of donations, not the amounts.  If this is already the case, then great. 

Is there something horrible with me wanting it limited to your own, home district/county/state?  I don't like the fact that a billionaire can sprinkle their money among 12 different, tight races to sway them all one way. 

I guess I'm just wanting equality in political monies.  How dare I.
So, you don't have a question mark after your last sentence.  Do you intend it to be a rhetorical question?
Anyway, about equality in political monies, what does that mean?  Seriously.
Does it mean that the Green Party is guaranteed to get the same amount of funding as the Democratic Party?  I suspect that you don't mean that, but if you don't mean that, what do you mean?
There are many things in life that we do not like, but we don't get to change them just because we don't like them.  That would make us something like a totalitarian state where only "good" viewpoints and "good" actions are allowed.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 02, 2020, 05:13:10 PM
Well I explained that it was an actual question already, so he can go take his nap. 


Let's get snarky:  COVID victimizes the elderly at a severe rate?  Damn, there goes 100,000+ republican votes, down the drain.  Trump must not be good at math.
Snark is not a good thing if you want your respondents to respond respectfully.
It tends to beget more snark instead.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 02, 2020, 05:15:18 PM
No.
A man was shouting at them and the cops rushed towards the line of protesters, pepper sprayed them, and yanked him out of the crowd.
While they allowed armed white people to scream in their faces without doing anything.



White privilege is every breath we take.
Same police force?  Same place?  It didn't look like it to me from what I saw.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on June 02, 2020, 05:15:48 PM
It's been my experience that if I stand toe-to-toe with officers and shout at them, I get my ass kicked

no, I was not protesting the past few evenings

back in my youth, I fought the law,........ and the law won.

while at school in chicago I loved the cops.  Seemed to focus on bigger issues and not worried about some college kids.  Always had good interactions with them.

In missouri.. it's a mixed bag.  Some are great.  Others spit chew down your door when pulling you and your family over for doing 45 in a 35 while holding the butt of his gun (still at his side) and basically defining a napoleon complex.   I've come to the conclusion that either through training or practice many cops escalate in order to show dominance.    i'm not suggesting it is easy being a cop.   No... walking up to a car not knowing if they will shoot or not has to be stressful.   But I think given a chance to diffuse, many choose aggression.   
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 02, 2020, 05:19:12 PM

the guy was 20-25 ft away... and basically yelled at the police about brutality.  They rushed him, sprayed the crowd and dragged him away.  It was not at all a good show by the cops.  I know it is only one example, but they have to be better.  The crowd was not at all near them or threatening.
OK.  But what you're saying is that the Kansas City cops mistreated a black protester while the Michigan State Police allowed far more leeway to white protesters.  Maybe the Kansas City P.D. is just a sort of wild-west/yayhoo police force while the Michigan State Police force is not.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 02, 2020, 05:20:55 PM
The video didn't play.  Hmm.  A lot like no republican senators seemed to see Trump's photo op with the bible in front of the church, tear-gassing peaceful protesters.


I don't like Trump, duh.

I don't like Biden, either.  But I'll say again, I would take a citizen chosen at random over our current president.  I'd take any of you over him. 
Are you talking to me?
So, you imply that I am a liar, but then in another breath demand that all posters treat you respectfully?
How is that working for you?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on June 02, 2020, 05:21:31 PM
Same police force?  Same place?  It didn't look like it to me from what I saw.
no.  I was just comparing the two.

Probably around a decade ago, I was having a discussion about problems in society and how to fix.   I was asked by a white friend if I would trade places with a black man.  It hit me.. I wouldn't.  It evolved my thoughts.   Many people have hard lives....  Some have  it easy... regardless of race.   But it was thought provoking. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on June 02, 2020, 05:21:57 PM
OK.  But what you're saying is that the Kansas City cops mistreated a black protester while the Michigan State Police allowed far more leeway to white protesters.  Maybe the Kansas City P.D. is just a sort of wild-west/yayhoo police force while the Michigan State Police force is not.
could be..
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on June 02, 2020, 05:23:20 PM
For the record, I see myself as right of center.   I usually vote republican but have been leaning libertarian, especially the last national election.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 02, 2020, 05:25:28 PM
no.  I was just comparing the two.

Probably around a decade ago, I was having a discussion about problems in society and how to fix.  I was asked by a white friend if I would trade places with a black man.  It hit me.. I wouldn't.  It evolved my thoughts.  Many people have hard lives....  Some have  it easy... regardless of race.  But it was thought provoking.
Chris Rock:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJmvfbDdhFg

 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJmvfbDdhFg)"There ain't a white man in this room that would change places with me. Not one in this room. And I'm RICH!"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 02, 2020, 05:26:52 PM
Entropy:

Do you remember the 1961 book Black Like Me?

A white journalist from Texas successfully disguised himself as a black guy and traveled through the South in 1959.  It was an eye-opening experience for him.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on June 02, 2020, 05:27:29 PM
Entropy:

Do you remember the 1961 book Black Like Me?

A white journalist from Texas successfully disguised himself as a black guy and traveled through the South in 1959.  It was an eye-opening experience for him.
I never read it.   I bet it would be eye-opening.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2020, 05:27:37 PM
Fuck off.  I asked a question and you went off on me, and continue to. 


?  - THIS IS A QUESTION MARK.  When it is used, a question is being asked. 
Yeah, well do some research on your own and get your facts straight before asking absurd questions like this.

Facts matter, and in this day and age, educating oneself on an issue one finds important is easy, takes a few minutes.

And I'll continue to "go off" when I feel like it, and without using profanity.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 02, 2020, 05:30:34 PM
Dr. Fauci doesn't approve of hugs
Send him to Wuhan for a week - he'll be fine
White privilege is every breath we take.
Break you prozac in half
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 02, 2020, 05:32:22 PM
Chris Rock:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJmvfbDdhFg

 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJmvfbDdhFg)"There ain't a white man in this room that would change places with me. Not one in this room. And I'm RICH!"
I'd call him on that if we could really do it.Not that I'm miserable but how much we talkin' here?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 02, 2020, 05:35:22 PM
And I'll continue to "go off" when I feel like it, and without using profanity.
*!&@&^%$ that
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 02, 2020, 07:09:12 PM
I'd call him on that if we could really do it.Not that I'm miserable but how much we talkin' here?
He's... Well off.

Of course, you'd have to figure your earning potential would be shot, because I don't think you're nearly as funny, Nubbz :57:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2020, 08:44:17 PM
at MrNubbz age, earning potential and luck with the ladies isn't nearly as important
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2020, 09:14:10 AM
Demo on the Florida house starts today. Floors are going - someone actually bought them, so that demo is free. The guy comes with his tools, truck and checkbook any time now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 03, 2020, 09:24:29 AM
Demo on the Florida house starts today. Floors are going - someone actually bought them, so that demo is free. The guy comes with his tools, truck and checkbook any time now.
Exciting!!    Enjoy Badge!  Cool time in life. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 03, 2020, 10:13:35 AM
He's much too young to be enjoying this time in life
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 03, 2020, 10:16:46 AM
He's much too young to be enjoying this time in life

That’s why Badge sounds so much like Bastage. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2020, 10:23:59 AM
I worked hard to be in this position. 55 was my goal, and still is, but my partners want me to start an office down here. So... If I can make the company (and my shares) more valuable, all the better for us.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 03, 2020, 10:29:07 AM
I retired at 58, which had been my long term goal.  When the 2008-9 thing hit, I figured I would work to 62 or more.  Things recovered faster than I expected and the company offered me a year's pay to quit.  In July, the offered the deal to folks at my level but in management only, which really incensed me.  They claimed folks on my side were "too valuable", even though we were paid the same.  Managers bailed in droves.

That was a good thing of course, and I didn't really have much to "do" at work, and come September they allowed us on the tech side to go as well, so I left 31 October, now having banked a few more months of pay for doing almost nothing and still getting severance.

I've been able to grow my retirement funds considerably since then, it would have been hard to do otherwise, and I checked today I'm ahead of where I was in February this year somehow.  That wasn't any prescience on my part, just luck.

My kid in Texas wants to retire at 45.  That is MUCH tougher.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 03, 2020, 10:32:19 AM
Apparently, Russia is behind all these protests in America too. Former top Obama aide/schill Susan Rice said so. So it must be true! LoL. 

Why CNN/MSNBC continues to allow the security state/establishment to go on air and spew garbage bullshit completely unchecked is beyond me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 03, 2020, 10:37:36 AM
I'm aiming to retire at 59 1/2

once I get there I may decide to try to make it to 60, with a better attitude

so far, I'm still on course

but I have two daughters in their 20's - weddings could cause some variance in schedule
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 03, 2020, 10:38:51 AM
Demo on the Florida house starts today. Floors are going - someone actually bought them, so that demo is free. The guy comes with his tools, truck and checkbook any time now.
Nice! Whereabouts in Florida? If you need help or advice with some stuff for the home, pm me. I have some hookups.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 03, 2020, 10:39:33 AM
The stock market seems to think all will be well .... up 300 on the Dow this morning.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2020, 10:40:21 AM
I'm in Burnt Store Marina. I'm all set with contractors. I've got several friends in the Punta Gorda and Fort Myers areas, thankfully, and we are about 1/2 way between both places.

Appreciate the offer.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2020, 10:41:32 AM
The stock market seems to think all will be well .... up 300 on the Dow this morning.
This is also good for retirement. I'm back to where I was before the "crash" with my holdings. Maybe slightly above, even.


<<<knocks on wooden head>>>
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 03, 2020, 10:55:41 AM
Our fantasy baseball thing is in North Port.  We don't know yet if it will happen in Jan 2021 of course.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 03, 2020, 10:58:58 AM
I'm in Burnt Store Marina. I'm all set with contractors. I've got several friends in the Punta Gorda and Fort Myers areas, thankfully, and we are about 1/2 way between both places.

Appreciate the offer.
That’s a little too far from me to do work anyway. I was referring to stuff for inside the home like plumbing fixtures, cabinets, toilets, and lighting. I have a showroom that I need to get rid of stuff on the floor and the little bit of stock we have. I’ve been selling bit by bit, giving great deals on the stuff obviously. It’s mostly high end stuff. I have the property/building up for lease with a retail real estate firm out of Dallas called SRS and they’ve got Starbucks and Burger King looking at it. Cool story- that SRS were actually founded by Roger Staubach. Had no idea it was started by Staubach until after representation agreement was signed.

If you ever change your mind or have a ? about something just shoot me a pm.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2020, 12:43:32 PM
What kind of cabinets do you sell?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 03, 2020, 01:58:05 PM
He's... Well off.

Of course, you'd have to figure your earning potential would be shot, because I don't think you're nearly as funny, Nubbz :57:
 I could always study Zymurgy/Culinary Arts at the Bwarb Academy - I'd even give IPA's a shot
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 03, 2020, 01:59:41 PM
at MrNubbz age, earning potential and luck with the ladies isn't nearly as important

That is a dirty,low down,no good,accurate thing to say
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 03, 2020, 02:02:18 PM
He's much too young to be enjoying this time in life
Ed Zachery he needs to experience balance with more hardship in his life - take him golfing with you
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on June 03, 2020, 02:06:51 PM
The video didn't play.  Hmm.  A lot like no republican senators seemed to see Trump's photo op with the bible in front of the church, tear-gassing peaceful protesters.


I don't like Trump, duh.

I don't like Biden, either.  But I'll say again, I would take a citizen chosen at random over our current president.  I'd take any of you over him. 
Can we get one thing straight, they didn't use tear gas, they used smoke grenades according to the US park Service who dispersed the crowd.

Probably should say one thing to this. Dispersing a peaceful protest by forceable means so you can get a photo-op was wrong. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 03, 2020, 02:07:58 PM
Apparently, Russia is behind all these protests in America too. Former top Obama aide/schill Susan Rice said so. So it must be true! LoL.
Ya know I wouldn't doubt just a little bit. They definately invade the internet media spreading false reports .Destabilizing a free economy and an old adversary would be a win for that creep in the Kremlin
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2020, 02:14:08 PM
I crawled out of a pretty big hole. We were not poor, but certainly not well off.

I paid my way through college. There was certainly no money for that in the family budget.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2020, 02:14:58 PM
Can we get one thing straight, they didn't use tear gas, they used smoke grenades according to the US park Service who dispersed the crowd.

Probably should say one thing to this. Dispersing a peaceful protest by forceable means so you can get a photo-op was wrong.
Yes, and yes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 03, 2020, 02:19:16 PM
I don't like Biden, either.  But I'll say again, I would take a citizen chosen at random over our current president.  I'd take any of you over him. 
I could have told you this before the last election.  I'd take anyone on this board over him as well, even you.

but, I'd rather have orange face than Hillary.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 03, 2020, 02:25:17 PM
3 more cops charged in George Floyd death, other officer's murder charge upgraded, Klobuchar says
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 03, 2020, 02:26:17 PM
Demo on the Florida house starts today. 
Here you go 847 found you some new digs even got the lads to pitch in and deliver it for you

https://youtu.be/hZL7TqSeDus


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 03, 2020, 02:28:23 PM
What kind of cabinets do you sell?
Oh man, used to sell everything. And if you’re looking for a custom shop guy not a manufacturer, I have a great guy for that. I’ll move it over to pm as not to crowd the board. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 03, 2020, 02:32:23 PM
3 more cops charged in George Floyd death, other officer's murder charge upgraded, Klobuchar says
Lol. This phony bitch had the opportunity to prosecute that murderous thug cop Derek Chauvin and she chose not too. This guy had 13 different marks on his record for excessive force/brutality and he was able to stick around until
he murdered someone. 

Kloubachar should resign her seat in the Senate and be arrested on corruption and manslaughter charges. 

Why this fool thinks it’s even a good idea for her to comment on this case is beyond me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 03, 2020, 03:02:09 PM
Can we get one thing straight, they didn't use tear gas, they used smoke grenades according to the US park Service who dispersed the crowd.
So we're going to believe the people who did the thing.  Mkay.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2020, 03:50:33 PM
Oh man, used to sell everything. And if you’re looking for a custom shop guy not a manufacturer, I have a great guy for that. I’ll move it over to pm as not to crowd the board.
I was just curious. I'm using a company called Sandstar, and they are handling everything.

In my last house, up North, I used a company called J&K for cabinets. This time, I'd use them over my dead body. Not that they were bad. They are made in China. So, NO. I'll just pay more this time.

For that kitchen, the J&K cost me $6K. The estimate for Omega came in at $18K. I'm sure there were some in the middle, but we (in Illinois) were still struggling with the 2008 thing, so I conserved cash.

In fact, Illinois is still struggling with the 2008 thing, or so they like to say... Glad I sold a while back.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 03, 2020, 04:01:02 PM
Yes, and yes.
I agree. But if you were watching it on a live feed, like I was, before anyone knew he was coming out of the White House, you could see the “peaceful protesters “ were spitting on the police and hurling all kinds of stuff at them. 

 Despite the negative press- he may have actually gained support from some of the base he counts on.  They viewed it as a large middle finger to the people they see as rioters- he walked out his front door and said Get off my lawn   
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 03, 2020, 04:03:45 PM
>:(
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 03, 2020, 04:07:28 PM
Despite the negative press- he may have actually gained support from some of the base he counts on.  They viewed it as a large middle finger to the people they see as rioters- he walked out his front door and said Get off my lawn 
Yep. I think if the protesters had left completely peacefully, he would have been VERY disappointed. 

It was his way of acting tough and telling his base "this is how you deal with lefty protesters". The rest of the world was aghast that he would do such a thing for a completely pointless photo-op, but anyone who can see through to the way he thinks knows the truth... The goal wasn't the photo op in front of the church. The real photo op was visibly attacking protesters. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 03, 2020, 04:10:28 PM
Yep. I think if the protesters had left completely peacefully, he would have been VERY disappointed.

It was his way of acting tough and telling his base "this is how you deal with lefty protesters". The rest of the world was aghast that he would do such a thing for a completely pointless photo-op, but anyone who can see through to the way he thinks knows the truth... The goal wasn't the photo op in front of the church. The real photo op was visibly attacking protesters.
You may be right.  I don’t know. But those who liked this move had visions from the night before of the rioters lighting a church on fire.  I am sure they saw that as an anarchist photo op.  Also, in that same area, trying to beat the journalists and throwing things at them
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 03, 2020, 04:27:35 PM
Yep. I think if the protesters had left completely peacefully, he would have been VERY disappointed.

It was his way of acting tough and telling his base "this is how you deal with lefty protesters". The rest of the world was aghast that he would do such a thing for a completely pointless photo-op, but anyone who can see through to the way he thinks knows the truth... The goal wasn't the photo op in front of the church. The real photo op was visibly attacking protesters.
Also- I would be careful about assuming how the “ rest of the world” feels.
if you go by MSM or social media, which is dominated by many celebrities in sports and entertainment, you could come to that conclusion. But if 2016 taught us anything it is that those voices can be way off of what many millions of people are feeling- and even saying ( if they are talking at all)
for example- you might read how he was chastised by the archbishop.  But what appears to also have happened but not being widely discussed is  the archbishop has a political lean background and is facing substantial backlash.
whether we agree or not- there are substantial people who couldn’t care less for Trump or politics- but it is sacrilegious to deface a church. I don’t think they are a strong presence in SM.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 03, 2020, 04:48:34 PM
Lol. This phony bitch had the opportunity to prosecute that murderous thug cop Derek Chauvin and she chose not too. This guy had 13 different marks on his record for excessive force/brutality and he was able to stick around until
he murdered someone.

Kloubachar should resign her seat in the Senate and be arrested on corruption and manslaughter charges.

Why this fool thinks it’s even a good idea for her to comment on this case is beyond me.
I'm no Amy Klobuchar fan, but her "chance to prosecute" Chauvin came two days before leaving her position as D.A.  She handed it over to a grand jury.  IMO, the grand jury, made up of everyday citizens, declined to indict him.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 03, 2020, 04:57:26 PM
Yep. I think if the protesters had left completely peacefully, he would have been VERY disappointed.

It was his way of acting tough and telling his base "this is how you deal with lefty protesters". The rest of the world was aghast that he would do such a thing for a completely pointless photo-op, but anyone who can see through to the way he thinks knows the truth... The goal wasn't the photo op in front of the church. The real photo op was visibly attacking protesters.
The POTUS had taken some negative press for remaining in his bunker as Washington DC burned.  He needed to display his manliness.
Although, how anyone could doubt the manliness of a guy who uses bronzer, styles his hair, wears lots of jewelry, and dodged the Vietnam-era draft is beyond me.
I saw a tweet praising his action as the gutsiest thing a POTUS has ever done.  It included a picture of Trump surrounded by a multitude of guards in extended formation.
I guess Richard Nixon walking out and talking face-to-face with a crowd of protestors without a 50-man military and Secret Service bodyguard, and with no park police armed with billy clubs and "smoke grenades" to roust the little people out of the way, doesn't count.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 03, 2020, 05:00:13 PM
I agree. But if you were watching it on a live feed, like I was, before anyone knew he was coming out of the White House, you could see the “peaceful protesters “ were spitting on the police and hurling all kinds of stuff at them.

 Despite the negative press- he may have actually gained support from some of the base he counts on.  They viewed it as a large middle finger to the people they see as rioters- he walked out his front door and said Get off my lawn
Would it be too much to ask to have a president who, when faced with ugly opposition, could respond with something better than a large middle finger?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 03, 2020, 05:06:06 PM
Didn't Teddy Roosevelt get shot, and then give an hour plus speech before seeking medical care?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 03, 2020, 05:28:19 PM
Would it be too much to ask to have a president who, when faced with ugly opposition, could respond with something better than a large middle finger?
Preaching to the choir.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 03, 2020, 05:33:37 PM
Didn't Teddy Roosevelt get shot, and then give an hour plus speech before seeking medical care?
I don't know how long the speech was, but he finished it.
It was in 1912, when he was the Progressive "Bull Moose" Party candidate.
Folded up notes in his pocket absorbed most of the energy from the bullet, so it didn't penetrate very far.  He was bleeding.
Not nearly as manly as holding up a Bible he'd never read in front of a church he didn't visit, though.
He died less than 6-1/2 years later at age 60.  He never really recovered from a 1913-14 trip up the Amazon to the "River of Doubt"--now known as Rio Roosevelt--in far SW Brazil.  [EDIT: Actually, the trip was cross-country to the headwaters of the Rio Dubido (now Rio Roosevelt), then downstream, ultimately to the Amazon.  He got a leg wound when he jumped into the water to keep two boats off some rocks, it got infected, and he became delirious.  His temp got to 103 and he asked to be left behind so that he wouldn't slow the rest of the party down.  He planned to commit suicide with an overdose of morphine.  When he got semi-recovered back in the USA, he wrote a friend that the trip had taken 10 years off his life.]
And then he absorbed another terrible blow when his youngest son Quentin was shot down and killed in combat in July 1918.
He likely would have been the GOP nominee in 1920 had he lived longer.  The party establishment had forgiven him for his apostasy of 1912.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 03, 2020, 07:18:03 PM
For anyone who his publicity stunt worked for, I have a problem with.  It's about self-awareness and knowing when you're being placated. 

These people should be insulted by it, but most don't even realize that.  If you can't see it for how non-genuine it was...no one can help you.



Now, tell me how I'm wrong and lefty.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 03, 2020, 07:31:40 PM
For anyone who his publicity stunt worked for, I have a problem with.  It's about self-awareness and knowing when you're being placated. 

These people should be insulted by it, but most don't even realize that.  If you can't see it for how non-genuine it was...no one can help you.



Now, tell me how I'm wrong and lefty.
This time you are correct.
But you're still a lefty. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 03, 2020, 07:36:31 PM
For anyone who his publicity stunt worked for, I have a problem with.  It's about self-awareness and knowing when you're being placated. 

These people should be insulted by it, but most don't even realize that.  If you can't see it for how non-genuine it was...no one can help you.



Now, tell me how I'm wrong and lefty.
Well I won’t say your wrong. I will say that your arrogance that it’s your opinion and anything else is wrong.

There are millions I would guess, that think there is an all out war against law enforcement. They have seen 6-7 shot, at least 3-4 run over, several beaten severely-just in the last few days.  When they also see countless acts of violence in the name of a good cause, innocent business owners maimed by ruthless rioters, and then they see symbolic and important things/ like a historic church- set ablaze  And all of this in the presence of people taking selfies and photos.  Is that somehow better than a political photo op?
They see all of this and want to be protected- for themselves, their families, hell - every law abiding citizen.  They see celebrities bailing those few rioters that actually got caught out of jail.
They see basically one person of significance standing up to the rioting mob and promoting law and order, which they crave. I would not call you right or wrong, but same for people that feel the other way.  It is quite understandable.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 03, 2020, 08:31:55 PM
Trying to decide if I want to get in the middle of this. 

Right now, still a no. 

(I've gone like a week without running and I don't like it. I can't tell if walking long distances is going to help my feet)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 03, 2020, 08:37:33 PM
Trying to decide if I want to get in the middle of this.

Right now, still a no.

(I've gone like a week without running and I don't like it. I can't tell if walking long distances is going to help my feet)
Here BAB. I will poke a sleeping bear.   ( since you never answered my question from our last conversation😜)
we are being told that African American males are being singled out and killed by police, yet virtually ALL of the data says otherwise. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 03, 2020, 08:50:27 PM
Here BAB. I will poke a sleeping bear.  ( since you never answered my question from our last conversation😜)
we are being told that African American males are being singled out and killed by police, yet virtually ALL of the data says otherwise.
I honestly don't recall where that last situation ended. 

Send me the data. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 03, 2020, 09:21:12 PM
I honestly don't recall where that last situation ended.

Send me the data.
I just made that up. Trying to bait you into joining the conversation 🤪
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 03, 2020, 09:29:49 PM
I just made that up. Trying to bait you into joining the conversation 🤪
A. Such a rascal.
B. I felt like there was some reply I half wrote out to answer one of your posts and then realized I needed to stop distracting myself on message boards (I've been real bad with that of late). 

Anyway, lots of questions to ponder. How to have noticeable protests without cover for looters. How to find a balance where police don't always feel threatened and then take it out on people. How to set behavioral standards for arguably the most powerful government employees in small settings. Many tough ones.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on June 03, 2020, 09:45:45 PM
TR was shot by  John Schrank outside the present day Hyatt Regency,  then the Gilpatrick in downtown Milwaukee,  apropos of nothing,  that is across the street from where the American League was organized and founded in 1900, twelve years earlier at the Republican House hotel.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 03, 2020, 10:01:47 PM
all Im going to say on this subject is that the harder the left and the media trys to separate Trump from his base the the stronger his base becomes

its driving the left mad
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 04, 2020, 12:44:19 AM
I'm sorry to hear that, 320.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 04, 2020, 06:00:34 AM
Here BAB. I will poke a sleeping bear.  ( since you never answered my question from our last conversation😜)
we are being told that UNARMED African American males are being singled out and killed by police, yet virtually ALL of the data says otherwise.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 07:52:10 AM
Very good OAF!

I watched your favorite last night- Tucker Carlson.  I know, I know Fox tads yada.  I like him because he is an equal opportunity offender. 2 nights ago he RIPPED Trump, and most of our political leaders

Anyway, last night he went through some of the data from the very liberal Washington Post database. There was some surprises in there for me.

He found that in 2019, a total of 10 unarmed African-Americans were killed by the police. He went through every single one of them in detail and what the situation was.

In five of the cases there was documented video evidence that the suspect charged the police officer. In one case it was clearly accidental and the officer was charged. In the remaining four cases two of the four officers were charged.

His point was not that blacks are not more profiled but rather that the world is going crazy claiming genocide. 10 people killed in one year with half of the officers being charged does not seem like genocide. Or anything even close to it. I thought he made a good point. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 07:55:53 AM
I would like to hear how othersfeel about this.

Michigan can trace the movements of 80% of those people who protested the lockdown. How do we feel about that? Does your feelings change if they can also trace those who are protesting the death of George Lloyd

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 04, 2020, 08:02:45 AM
I would like to hear how othersfeel about this.

Michigan can trace the movements of 80% of those people who protested the lockdown. How do we feel about that? Does your feelings change if they can also trace those who are protesting the death of George Lloyd


I'm not clear what you mean by "trace the movements". Who is doing that, if they are, or is it just a capability because of cell phones?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 08:11:41 AM
I'm not clear what you mean by "trace the movements". Who is doing that, if they are, or is it just a capability because of cell
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.detroitnews.com/amp/5224425002
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 04, 2020, 08:16:41 AM
The protesters agreed to be tracked because the information was collected from "opt-in" cellphones, in which the user at some point agreed to terms allowing for such data to be collected by firms such as VoteMap, said VoteMap CEO Jennifer McEwan.

The cellphone users remained anonymous and their locations were instead culled from the publishers of the opt-in apps they were using, said McEwan, CEO of the Austin-based startup Datum that is the parent company under which VoteMap falls. People gauging cellphone locations the day of the April 30 protest and the day after would not be able to see to whom the phone belonged, she said.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 04, 2020, 08:18:00 AM
The opt in part is significant, I think, and I'm fine with it.  We should all know our cell phones are location enabled (or disabled).  

Use of this on a voluntary OPT IN basis strikes me as totally OK no matter who is involved with what.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 04, 2020, 08:52:49 AM
The opt in part is significant, I think, and I'm fine with it.  We should all know our cell phones are location enabled (or disabled). 

Use of this on a voluntary OPT IN basis strikes me as totally OK no matter who is involved with what.
Well, you can certainly make the argument that anyone who installed an app that asked for permission to collect location data and accepted it is fair game... Because that's what this is.

Have you looked at which apps on your phone have access to your location data? Have you looked at the ones, specifically, that have access to location data "all the time", not just when you're using the app? Do you trust that all of those app providers are not selling your location data? 

Even though this data is anonymous, i.e. the cellphone user information is never provided, the data is specific enough that you could easily figure out who someone is based on the data. Based on very predictable patterns, you will know essentially someone's address (or close enough to it to narrow it down), their workplace (based on them going to a single location ~5 days a week for many hours), from that it's very easy to figure out who that cellphone belongs to. 

Again, I think some of this is caveat emptor, because those people did opt in to location services. But it wouldn't surprise me if within a few years this results in legislation banning the practice or making it MUCH more explicit what you're agreeing to. 

Here's a more in-depth article on the same issue:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/19/opinion/location-tracking-cell-phone.html (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/19/opinion/location-tracking-cell-phone.html)


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 04, 2020, 10:30:57 AM
I'm trying to figure out why I could care if someone tracked my cell phone.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 10:40:17 AM
I'm trying to figure out why I could care if someone tracked my cell phone.
Where it gets interesting, there is already a groundswell of groups objecting to letting law enforcement using this capacity to try to track those who committed serious crimes during the not so peaceful part of the protests. 

you could almost make an analogy to radar detectors. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 04, 2020, 11:00:51 AM
I'm trying to figure out why I could care if someone tracked my cell phone.
I don't particularly care. I have a boring life, with nothing to hide. 

But there are a lot of people in this world who do completely legal things that probably wouldn't want all of those things to be public knowledge. Things that could be used to blackmail them, or simply embarrass them in front of family, friends, or colleagues. I.e. someone from a religious family is frequenting gay bars and an opportunistic criminal attempts to blackmail them to keep it quiet?

Or, as in the NYT story, they were able to use location tracking to identify someone who was interviewing for a new job--after the fact, based on linkedin posts showing the guy changing jobs several weeks after the location data showed him making an uncharacteristic trip to that company's offices. What happens when employers start paying data services to data-mine this location information to identify disgruntled employees and let them go?

I'm sure there is a market for all this data, and a portion of that market can use the data for nefarious purposes. Heck, at the very least, someone could use that data to case houses as part of a burglary ring, knowing that based on predictable patterns of people leaving their houses on certain days and being gone for predictable amounts of time that nobody will be home.

Does some of this seem far-fetched? Perhaps... Will I be surprised when we see cases of all of these things happening over the next few years? Nope. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 04, 2020, 11:04:34 AM
how do they prove that I am in possession of my cell phone at the time of incident?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 04, 2020, 11:04:43 AM
I know some computer tracks what I do on line.  I once tried to fight it, and then I decided I didn't care really.

At times I will google some obscure something, air fryers, or whatever, and the result is amusing to me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 04, 2020, 11:06:21 AM
how do I know if I set the app to ONLY collect GPS data while I'm using the app, that they aren't really collecting data ALL the time?

cell phones are evil
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 04, 2020, 11:08:47 AM
I stopped carrying mine.  It sits at home most of the time I'm out and about.  I use it like I would a land line except I take it when we travel somewhere.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 04, 2020, 11:13:25 AM
I wonder if "they" could use it to see how fast you are driving. 

When I was on I-75 the other day, the GPS lady warned me of a couple of speed traps ahead. She was right. There were three of them, and warned of all of them, about 1 mile ahead. I've never had that happen before.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 04, 2020, 11:16:22 AM
Would it be too much to ask to have a president who, when faced with ugly opposition, could respond with something better than a large middle finger?
it's not, but we were only presented with 2 options in the last election

both options are more apt to reply with said middle finger
and unfortunately both parties can't seem to find better options for the upcoming election
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 04, 2020, 11:18:12 AM
I wonder if "they" could use it to see how fast you are driving.
The wife uses Wayz and it does that of course, and they could test your speed, just as they can tell how fast you went between toll gates.

But they don't use it, I think they have to observe you speeding here in the US.  France is replete with traffic cameras.  You get a ticket in the mail.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 04, 2020, 11:18:40 AM
I stopped carrying mine.  It sits at home most of the time I'm out and about.  I use it like I would a land line except I take it when we travel somewhere.
I hope to get to this point in my life in a few years
powering it down would hopefully eliminate any data collection, but I'm not sure. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 04, 2020, 11:20:39 AM
The wife uses Wayz and it does that of course, and they could test your speed, just as they can tell how fast you went between toll gates.

But they don't use it, I think they have to observe you speeding here in the US.  France is replete with traffic cameras.  You get a ticket in the mail.
Same in Illinois.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 04, 2020, 11:20:55 AM
same in Iowa
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 04, 2020, 11:36:33 AM
how do I know if I set the app to ONLY collect GPS data while I'm using the app, that they aren't really collecting data ALL the time?

cell phones are evil
You set the permissions at the phone level on a per-app basis, so the phone OS won't allow those apps to even access the data when the apps aren't running. 

Obviously then you have to trust that Google/Apple are implementing that correctly, but that's at least what they're designed to do and it's what they say they're doing. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 04, 2020, 12:14:20 PM
yup, I don't trust them

a Tall
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 04, 2020, 01:43:54 PM
how do they prove that I am in possession of my cell phone at the time of incident?
They won't have to prove it if they fire you and don't tell you that it was because of where they saw you going by tracking your cell phone app.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 04, 2020, 01:57:15 PM
By the way, in the crowd-clearing-for-POTUS-photo-op the other day, it WAS tear gas that was used, despite the head of the Park Police asserting the contrary.

https://thebulwark.com/the-tear-gas-hoax-hoax/ (https://thebulwark.com/the-tear-gas-hoax-hoax/)

(https://i.imgur.com/zQLxmbn.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/FOHGN6x.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/DOn2Ug4.png)

These were found by reporters in the aftermath of the crowd-clearing-for-photo-op.

CS (supposedly standing for "chemical smoke") is the classic tear gas that the armed forces have long used to train troops in chemical operations.  If your protective mask isn't properly sealed, you inhale it and get it in your eyes and nose.  If your chemical protective suit isn't sealed up properly, you get it on your clothes.  I've gone through a CS "gas chamber" with no chemical protection gear on except a mask.  It was not pleasant on the other side.  CS was in my clothes and on my skin.

The last picture is of "OC."  This is not one I've personally used or encountered, but it is pepper gas.

[CS Tear Gas Spray] Physical effects: Extreme burning of the nose, eyes, and throat, involuntary closing of the eyes, coughing, rise in blood pressure, mucus secretion, nausea, and vomiting. In most cases, the symptoms of tear gas spray subside within 30 minutes.

[OC Pepper Gas Spray] Physical Effects: Uncontrollable watering of the eyes, extreme burning of the eyes and nose, temporary blindness, nasal and sinus discharge, burning of the skin, increase in blood pressure. In most cases, the symptoms of pepper spray last no longer than 45-60 minutes. . . .

Not that it really matters whether "smoke bombs" or tear gas or (worse than tear gas) pepper gas was used in the violent removal of law-abiding American citizens so that the POTUS could have a picture made while he was holding up a Bible he's never read in front of a church he does not attend.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 04, 2020, 02:04:34 PM
About the rubber bullets, well the Park Police are technically correct there.  They weren't rubber bullets.  They were rubber pellets expelled from flash-bang grenades thrown into the crowd.

Here's one that didn't go off.

(https://i.imgur.com/bnrlLgi.jpg)

It turns out that the device in the picture, the Stinger (https://www.atlantictactical.com/def-tec-stinger-rubber-ball-grenade/)Grenade (https://www.atlantictactical.com/def-tec-stinger-rubber-ball-grenade/), is a “maximum effect device that delivers three stimuli for psychological and physiological effects: rubber pellets, light, and sound.”

The Stinger Rubber Ball Grenade has an initial 1.5 second delay that initiates fuze assembly separation, followed by another .5 second delay before the blast which is sufficient to project the rubber balls in a 50 foot radius.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 04, 2020, 02:11:20 PM
so, who should I believe?

the head of the Park Police?

or 

reporters?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 04, 2020, 02:15:51 PM
It is just fine to stay with an open mind and declare that you are not sure either way of course.

Most people I find decide based on their political leanings and then search for whatever "facts" comport with that.  It's hard to keep a truly open mind and decide based on actual facts even if they are what you would prefer not to acknowledge.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 04, 2020, 02:21:41 PM
I'm not sure either way

I'd rather be sure, so I can form a firm opinion

oh well
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 04, 2020, 02:22:34 PM
so, who should I believe?

the head of the Park Police?

or

reporters?
In a normal time, I would say the head of the Park Police.  Maybe I'd be wrong in saying that, but that's what I'd say.
But these are abnormal times, and for some reason, many agency heads and other spokesmen (and women) for the various agencies of the executive branch of the federal government have had great difficulty telling factual truths rather than fictitious lies during these times.

Also, all the eyewitness accounts that I have read have supported the notion that tear gas and rubber bullets (OK, pellets) were used on them.

But, like I said, at the heart of it is that law-abiding American citizens were violently evicted from an area in which they were lawfully assembled so that the POTUS--who had been in his bunker for most of the previous 48 hours--could come out and have a photo-op.  So, "smoke bombs" or CS or OC, rubber bullets, rubber pellets, flash-bang grenades or oversized firecrackers or nightsticks or pool noodles, it doesn't really matter.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 04, 2020, 02:23:33 PM
should I blame Bob Stoops?

he seems out of the loop
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 04, 2020, 02:23:55 PM
Should not have happened in the first place. I don't care what party you are for. That simply did not need to happen.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 04, 2020, 02:25:39 PM
folks have been doing photo ops for decades

I doubt any of them needed to happen

the press seems to like them - on both sides
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on June 04, 2020, 02:26:25 PM
not sure anyone can be trusted anymore... at least everything needs to be verified.   Sad really
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 04, 2020, 02:27:12 PM
very sad
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 04, 2020, 02:28:02 PM
I rely almost entirely on Facebook memes to confirm what I already know to be true.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 04, 2020, 02:30:03 PM
folks have been doing photo ops for decades

I doubt any of them needed to happen

the press seems to like them - on both sides
The photo opp wasn't standing in front of a church holding up a bible. If it was, it would have been well-planned, there might have actually been prepared statements (even by POTUS), it might have been done with, you know, actual religious leaders. Heck, it might have involved a prayer, given the backdrop. 

The church was just a pretext to have a REAL photo opp -- violent ejections of protesters so POTUS could show off to his supporters that he's a tough guy. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 02:34:56 PM
so, who should I believe?

the head of the Park Police?

or

reporters?
I don’t buy ANYTHING reporters say.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 04, 2020, 02:38:00 PM
so, who should I believe?

the head of the Park Police?

or

reporters?
If you don't want to believe the latter, that's fine. But I wouldn't suggest believing the former either. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 04, 2020, 02:41:22 PM
should I blame Bob Stoops?

he seems out of the loop
Definitely. Big Game Bob my backside. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 02:44:23 PM
The photo opp wasn't standing in front of a church holding up a bible. If it was, it would have been well-planned, there might have actually been prepared statements (even by POTUS), it might have been done with, you know, actual religious leaders. Heck, it might have involved a prayer, given the backdrop.

The church was just a pretext to have a REAL photo opp -- violent ejections of protesters so POTUS could show off to his supporters that he's a tough guy.
Just like all the rioters taking selfies while looting.  They even stand over the white peoples they have maimed and take them.

but I doubt you have seen that or give a shit. 
there was a great story today near top of CNNs website today about a cop who pushed a peaceful protester.  Pictures and all. Of course nothing about the NYC cop that was ambushed and stabbed in the neck by a mostly peaceful protester.  Then again- as Fredo on CNN says- no need for the protesters to be peaceful. 
then we have “ you ain’t black” candidate, author of what many liberals view as one of the most racist pieces of legislation ever written, the 94 crime bill, in a back church trump to convince people that he cares more.  Lol

lots of photo ops going on.  I guess if the Prez wants to show he is standing up for law and order- to his credit, he is going against the PC grain and in fact is going solo.  Takes guts to against the mob.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 02:45:53 PM
If you don't want to believe the latter, that's fine. But I wouldn't suggest believing the former either.
I generally follow my eyes. I have no idea who is truthful on The issue of teargas or not. I do know one thing, I was watching live before the president came out of the White House or anyone knew he was going to do that and I can assure you there was nothing peaceful about that crowd unless you think water bottles filled with cement heading towards your face is peaceful
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 04, 2020, 02:57:36 PM
Just like all the rioters taking selfies while looting.  They even stand over the white peoples they have maimed and take them.

but I doubt you have seen that or give a shit. 
You realize that criticizing POTUS doesn't mean that I'm defending or excusing violent looters and rioters, right? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 04, 2020, 03:00:32 PM
Decades ago, I watched 60 Minutes almost religiously.  Then, they did a piece on the Bradley AFV that was, um, ridiculously slanted, saying its armor would not stand up to a Russian tank round.  Duh.

Then they did one on the Audi "unintended" acceleration issue.  The car mags had a field day with that one, they had inadvertently reproduced the acceleration with an Audi, but the brake lights weren't on.  The real truth was that European cars, not just Audis had the brake pedal closer to the accelerator than was typical for US cars because they had to leave room for the clutch pedal, even if the car was an automatic.  

They did some other show that was similarly bad and I concluded they contrive a story line and then force fit the narrative to that line.  Imagine they come up with a story, several per week, and check it out with film and crews and it turns out they were wrong about it.  What do they show on TV?  They rig the event.

And I have experienced personally an interview where my actual meaning was distorted by editing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 04, 2020, 03:00:57 PM
You realize that criticizing POTUS doesn't mean that I'm defending or excusing violent looters and rioters, right?
No, everyone has to be in one camp or the other, has to be that way.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 03:54:35 PM
You realize that criticizing POTUS doesn't mean that I'm defending or excusing violent looters and rioters, right?
I do. You have every right to criticize POTUS. He deserves it.  He is often just a total putz. in fact I will add I think your assessment is accurate at least to a high degree. 

I was just trying to balance it by pointing out that this world we are in is full of those types of symbolic messages and photo opportunities. That is the world of social media, sound bites, and narratives. 

whether I agree with him, I give him credit for staying true to his beliefs despite enormous levels of criticism.  He is basically laying out a clear choice and I doubt he gives a shit if his way is the politically correct way. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 04, 2020, 03:56:00 PM
I generally follow my eyes. I have no idea who is truthful on The issue of teargas or not. I do know one thing, I was watching live before the president came out of the White House or anyone knew he was going to do that and I can assure you there was nothing peaceful about that crowd unless you think water bottles filled with cement heading towards your face is peaceful
You saw water bottles filled with cement? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 04:01:10 PM
You saw water bottles filled with cement?
They had brownish content and the interview I watched after- the cop they spoke to said those aren’t water.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 04:05:58 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-nypd-looters-bricks-cement-bottles-hoarding-20200603-l7fmy3s6krgzpffk7ug4skv6vy-story.html%3foutputType=amp



This is NYC but I have seen this in many of the cities including DC. 

It is real. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 04, 2020, 04:28:12 PM
They had brownish content and the interview I watched after- the cop they spoke to said those aren’t water. 
He said they were cement?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 04, 2020, 04:55:12 PM
What's with the incessant either/or crap???  We shouldn't have a country run by Trump OR like NYC.  Obviously.  FFS
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 04, 2020, 04:56:22 PM
I kinda like NYC in smaller doses, usually.  

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 04, 2020, 07:20:23 PM
Decades ago, I watched 60 Minutes almost religiously.  Then, they did a piece on the Bradley AFV that was, um, ridiculously slanted, saying its armor would not stand up to a Russian tank round.  Duh.

Then they did one on the Audi "unintended" acceleration issue.  The car mags had a field day with that one, they had inadvertently reproduced the acceleration with an Audi, but the brake lights weren't on.  The real truth was that European cars, not just Audis had the brake pedal closer to the accelerator than was typical for US cars because they had to leave room for the clutch pedal, even if the car was an automatic. 

They did some other show that was similarly bad and I concluded they contrive a story line and then force fit the narrative to that line.  Imagine they come up with a story, several per week, and check it out with film and crews and it turns out they were wrong about it.  What do they show on TV?  They rig the event.

And I have experienced personally an interview where my actual meaning was distorted by editing.
As you know, I have seen much of the same when military issues are being covered.  Even by sources you would think might know better, like Army Times, Military Times, Military.com, etc.  The reporter/writer doesn't know a tank from an IFV from a howitzer, a Blackhawk from an Apache, an automatic rifle from a machine gun, an amphibious assault ship from an aircraft carrier.  It's not necessarily bias (although sometimes it surely is) so much as a sort of willful ignorance.

But if a bunch of reporters independently smell tear gas, and the staff at the church smell tear gas, and the people run out of Lafayette Square smell tear gas, but the chief of the Park Police says there was no tear gas, I'll make the tough call that the chief of the Park Police is probably the one lying about it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 04, 2020, 07:40:08 PM
As you know, I have seen much of the same when military issues are being covered.  Even by sources you would think might know better, like Army Times, Military Times, Military.com, etc.  The reporter/writer doesn't know a tank from an IFV from a howitzer, a Blackhawk from an Apache, an automatic rifle from a machine gun, an amphibious assault ship from an aircraft carrier.  It's not necessarily bias (although sometimes it surely is) so much as a sort of willful ignorance.

But if a bunch of reporters independently smell tear gas, and the staff at the church smell tear gas, and the people run out of Lafayette Square smell tear gas, but the chief of the Park Police says there was no tear gas, I'll make the tough call that the chief of the Park Police is probably the one lying about it.
So I think this is really interesting, and wanted to address the second paragraph first. 

On the one hand, none of those people probably know tear gas by smell. They probably say "I'm getting gassed with an eye irritant that also hammers my respiratory system and hurts my skin, that sounds like teargas." Now it might not be what is considered teargas, but instead aerosolized pepper spray or something else. But then it gets weird because pepper spray can be a gas and tear gas can be a spray. It's a weird sort of technicality. It kind of matters and it kind of doesn't. (I.e., when you say you were teargassed, you're not actually specifying chlorobenzalmalononitrile most of the time)

The other examples you mentioned, those are interesting because the context depends on how egregious it is. Like it's details that matter very much to one person, but are probably breezed over by most. Granted, if you work for those outlets, you should def know. I also hope the people a reporter talks to are detailed in their description. If they talk to an expert, the expert has the knowledge to share. (It took me a second, but I'm 95 percent sure I knew the differences between all the things you mentioned owing to video games and a childhood interest in military history. It took me a second to sort through automatic rifle/machine gun, not remembering if the lack of lightweight-ness was required, and I had to check he shape of the Blackhawk)

There's also another interesting paradigm of what people care to know/read. For example we all consume football at an impossibly rudimentary level. Ridiculously so in fact. And for the most part, it’s fine we hardly have the first clue about how what we’re watching works. And I assume we all don’t think our thoughts/ideas make us impossible dunces, so at times I try to apply that in all these cases.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 08:05:36 PM
As you know, I have seen much of the same when military issues are being covered.  Even by sources you would think might know better, like Army Times, Military Times, Military.com, etc.  The reporter/writer doesn't know a tank from an IFV from a howitzer, a Blackhawk from an Apache, an automatic rifle from a machine gun, an amphibious assault ship from an aircraft carrier.  It's not necessarily bias (although sometimes it surely is) so much as a sort of willful ignorance.

But if a bunch of reporters independently smell tear gas, and the staff at the church smell tear gas, and the people run out of Lafayette Square smell tear gas, but the chief of the Park Police says there was no tear gas, I'll make the tough call that the chief of the Park Police is probably the one lying about it.
Your call.   Independent reporters kill it for me.  I have watched them stand in front of blazing buildings, and literally say it’s peaceful. 😂😂😂
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 04, 2020, 08:11:54 PM
Just like all the rioters taking selfies while looting.  They even stand over the white peoples they have maimed and take them.

but I doubt you have seen that or give a shit. 
there was a great story today near top of CNNs website today about a cop who pushed a peaceful protester.  Pictures and all. Of course nothing about the NYC cop that was ambushed and stabbed in the neck by a mostly peaceful protester.  Then again- as Fredo on CNN says- no need for the protesters to be peaceful. 
then we have “ you ain’t black” candidate, author of what many liberals view as one of the most racist pieces of legislation ever written, the 94 crime bill, in a back church trump to convince people that he cares more.  Lol

lots of photo ops going on.  I guess if the Prez wants to show he is standing up for law and order- to his credit, he is going against the PC grain and in fact is going solo.  Takes guts to against the mob.
You know, making the case against one candidate does not necessarily make the case for the opponent.  And that works both ways with Biden and Trump, just as it did with Hillary and Trump.  Sometimes you can't make a case for either except that he/she might not be as bad as the other candidate.  I think that's how a lot of people felt in 2016, and Hillary repelled more people in the critical swing states than Trump did.
If a president--any president--is going to stand up for law and order and mean it, it means he can't urge cops to go rough on people they arrest, tell his supporters at rallies to rough up any protesters who show up, etc.  If it's just law and order when it's politically convenient, because it's their guys who are out of order, then it doesn't mean all that much.
This whole protest movement has made me realize that I've had somewhat of a double standard in my head.  When it's some armed 2nd-Amendment purists standing up for their right to carry their rifles into private businesses, even at the expense of scaring customers away, I've given them the benefit of the doubt.  When its leftists shutting down parts of Seattle to protest a meeting of the WTO, I've been all for hitting them with all the force that the law allows, and maybe some more than that.  I realize that I've got to get it straight in my head what the standards should be, because they have to apply to both sides, not just "law" for the guys on my side and "order or we'll smash the hell out of you" for the guys on the other side.  I do think that in general the protests on the other side push more readily into violence, but some, maybe a lot, of the violence occurring about the edges of this protest movement is coming from "conservatives" who are acting in order to discredit the protesters.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 08:12:56 PM
I do think the politically correct group think does need to be heard.  They are calling for defunding the police in many of these cities. In Minneapolis, they are seriously disgusting disbanding the police. In LA, the mayor committed to the protesters to. It the police budget.

If they are the majority in that city, they should have their way.   

Not sure how that will go.  I know if that were even a whisper where I am, or virtually any of the people I know, the first step would be to get out ASAP.  Of course the first challenge I am guessing is absorbing the huge loss on my house, because I am pretty sure the property value would drop off a cliff.  Second, I think most small businesses would shut down super fast. I am thinking there would be rapid flight out of those geographies.  But they are very serious about it.  And many of those political leaders are totally on board.

I could be all wrong, maybe they know some things I don’t.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 08:18:09 PM
You know, making the case against one candidate does not necessarily make the case for the opponent.  And that works both ways with Biden and Trump, just as it did with Hillary and Trump.  Sometimes you can't make a case for either except that he/she might not be as bad as the other candidate.  I think that's how a lot of people felt in 2016, and Hillary repelled more people in the critical swing states than Trump did.
If a president--any president--is going to stand up for law and order and mean it, it means he can't urge cops to go rough on people they arrest, tell his supporters at rallies to rough up any protesters who show up, etc.  If it's just law and order when it's politically convenient, because it's their guys who are out of order, then it doesn't mean all that much.
This whole protest movement has made me realize that I've had somewhat of a double standard in my head.  When it's some armed 2nd-Amendment purists standing up for their right to carry their rifles into private businesses, even at the expense of scaring customers away, I've given them the benefit of the doubt.  When its leftists shutting down parts of Seattle to protest a meeting of the WTO, I've been all for hitting them with all the force that the law allows, and maybe some more than that.  I realize that I've got to get it straight in my head what the standards should be, because they have to apply to both sides, not just "law" for the guys on my side and "order or we'll smash the hell out of you" for the guys on the other side.  I do think that in general the protests on the other side push more readily into violence, but some, maybe a lot, of the violence occurring about the edges of this protest movement is coming from "conservatives" who are acting in order to discredit the protesters.
Until you produce some evidence, I will politely say that that is outrageously ridiculous. 

The movement, the press, the liberal and vocal politicians are all standing for the protesters, and minimalist government the violence and looting.  Schurmur today actually said he is proud of the protesters and that the violence in New York is kind of a tradition.  They may be right, but one thing is clear-  the conservatives do not want looting, And destruction.  The Liberals seem to, and are actuallly and openly encouraging it by openly funding bail funds to get people arrested out of jail.

It is interesting tho that those who seem to favor the unrest, would turn around and accuse the side that is trying to stop it, at times with too much force, of doing it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 04, 2020, 08:19:40 PM
Your call.  Independent reporters kill it for me.  I have watched them stand in front of blazing buildings, and literally say it’s peaceful. 😂😂😂
I can understand not trusting reporters.  I certainly don't automatically trust them.  Even whey aren't biased, they often get the story wrong.
Would you trust Adm. Mike Mullen, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, appointed to that position by Pres. George W. Bush?
"I Cannot Remain Silent (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/american-cities-are-not-battlespaces/612553/)"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 08:26:50 PM
I will add, as many including people in this forum pointed out, it’s sad that it seems to have come to one side or the other.  It shouldn’t be that way.  But let’s be real, it is.

I don’t care for the politics of either side, nor the choice it leaves me. But both sides have made it VERY clear what they stand for.  It’s not veiled or subtle.

As much as I don’t like POTUS, the thought of defunding police, or allowing violence and looting because “ it’s justified for a cause”  and what appears to come with it, is also extremely unappealing to me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 04, 2020, 08:42:23 PM
I will add, as many including people in this forum pointed out, it’s sad that it seems to have come to one side or the other.  It shouldn’t be that way.  But let’s be real, it is.

I don’t care for the politics of either side, nor the choice it leaves me. But both sides have made it VERY clear what they stand for.  It’s not veiled or subtle.

As much as I don’t like POTUS, the thought of defunding police, or allowing violence and looting because “ it’s justified for a cause”  and what appears to come with it, is also extremely unappealing to me.
Law and order President on one side and defunding the police on the other side

Has the left gone completely crazy 

How does this not help Trump
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 08:56:24 PM
Law and order President on one side and defunding the police on the other side

Has the left gone completely crazy

How does this not help Trump
For some people it does, and for some it doesn’t.  I certainly think it strengthens both the conservative and liberal bases, but only time will tell how those few and decisive ones in the middle feel.  I saw a poll 3 days ago that was nationwide, something around 70% favored  using the military to stop the violence.   Who knows.  

major corporations, celebrities , media... their thought is “ riots are the voices of the unheard”.  They are making huge donations to BLM, where this strong and momentum fueled effort to defund police started. Who can deny that the organization ( not the slogan or thought process) BLM who is receiving these funds, has a track record of violence.

NAACP has bail funds for the rioters, they are taking huge corporate donations.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 09:06:08 PM
I will admit, it has me troubled and confused. 

For as disgusting that video was of the asshole cops murdering Lloyd, and it so bad it actually made me nauseous and brought me to tears, I have seen many things since then that had the same effect on me.

I am not on FB, but my girlfriend is.  She just showed me a very clear video of a man robbing a convenience store.  He shot the one of the women after tying the two of them up behind the cash register.
He then doused one with lighter fluid and lit her on fire.  He was black and the victims were white.

Now besides the obvious disgust of that crime, what troubles me is that you will have a hard time finding that story on any mainstream media outlets.  Would we have two weeks ago?  I do t know. My guess is, Fox would show it but nobody else would.  But why is just assumed that that is not a hate, race based crime?

It just doesn’t make sense to me...



https://disrn.com/news/woman-accused-3-others-of-racism-for-cleaning-blm-graffiti-off-federal-building


This is where we are.   I can’t wrap my head around this.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 04, 2020, 09:16:07 PM
For some people it does, and for some it doesn’t.  I certainly think it strengthens both the conservative and liberal bases, but only time will tell how those few and decisive ones in the middle feel.  I saw a poll 3 days ago that was nationwide, something around 70% favored  using the military to stop the violence.  Who knows. 

major corporations, celebrities , media... their thought is “ riots are the voices of the unheard”.  They are making huge donations to BLM, where this strong and momentum fueled effort to defund police started. Who can deny that the organization ( not the slogan or thought process) BLM who is receiving these funds, has a track record of violence.

NAACP has bail funds for the rioters, they are taking huge corporate donations.
I think you are seriously under estimating how pissed off the right is

There is no way the voters will put a candidate in office if they favor defunding the police 

this should be interesting
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 04, 2020, 09:18:41 PM
https://ktla.com/news/local-news/l-a-city-council-members-introduce-motion-to-reduce-police-funding-as-calls-to-defund-the-lapd-echoed-in-protests/ (https://ktla.com/news/local-news/l-a-city-council-members-introduce-motion-to-reduce-police-funding-as-calls-to-defund-the-lapd-echoed-in-protests/)

only on the left coast could this happen
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 04, 2020, 09:53:56 PM
Apropos of nothing at all, I just happened to come across some shooting statistics.  As of mid-December 2019, 38 cops had been murdered in the line of duty (not counting cops shot by other cops).  1004 civilians were shot and killed by cops in 2019.  Most of those 1004 were probably justified, but not all of them.

As I and others have noted, the idea that police kill black victims disproportionately is false.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 04, 2020, 10:08:40 PM
Until you produce some evidence, I will politely say that that is outrageously ridiculous. 

The movement, the press, the liberal and vocal politicians are all standing for the protesters, and minimalist government the violence and looting.  Schurmur today actually said he is proud of the protesters and that the violence in New York is kind of a tradition.  They may be right, but one thing is clear-  the conservatives do not want looting, And destruction.  The Liberals seem to, and are actuallly and openly encouraging it by openly funding bail funds to get people arrested out of jail.

It is interesting tho that those who seem to favor the unrest, would turn around and accuse the side that is trying to stop it, at times with too much force, of doing it.
I was trying to follow, but which part of the post up there was the target of the phrase "outrageously ridiculous."

(I think I might have thoughts, but I want to make sure I know where you're coming from) 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 10:25:13 PM
I was trying to follow, but which part of the post up there was the target of the phrase "outrageously ridiculous."

(I think I might have thoughts, but I want to make sure I know where you're coming from)

That the violence is coming from conservatives. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 04, 2020, 10:25:41 PM
Apropos of nothing at all, I just happened to come across some shooting statistics.  As of mid-December 2019, 38 cops had been murdered in the line of duty (not counting cops shot by other cops).  1004 civilians were shot and killed by cops in 2019.  Most of those 1004 were probably justified, but not all of them.

As I and others have noted, the idea that police kill black victims disproportionately is false.
That phrase is interesting because it's imprecise enough to be true and false at the same time. 

We've not specified what the proportionality is to. We've also not really specified what a "victim" is. Does that mean an unarmed person? A person that didn't deserve it?

We know black people are killed by police disproportionally to white people. This is math. Unless the numbers are more than 3 to 1 it would be disproportionate to general population. Now one might have to argue we'd have to go into geographic factors. And we'd have to parse through different things. 

We also know there's going to be a certain thumb on the scale in all the retellings because there simply isn't much robust oversight. The people shot are dead. The people shooting are the ones often writing the reports. The people overseeing them are most often strongly empathizing with them and very often willing to cover for them. Our data is most often rosier than reality, logic should tell us.  

Does this mean these killings are happing all over? Most likely not. They are certianly not happening at the rate that certain hysterias seem to paint. But I do think it's a thing (and you know what, police killing white victims is pretty terrible too)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 04, 2020, 10:26:45 PM
That the violence is coming from conservatives.
You mean beside the president telling both police and supporters to rough up people?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 10:27:15 PM
https://www.facebook.com/1541453915/posts/10221676767738753/?

This could be conservatives in this car 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 10:32:37 PM
You mean beside the president telling both police and supporters to rough up people?
Yes- besides POTUS telling law enforcement to defend themselves against non peaceful protesters and also to try to catch and arrest people caught throwing Molotov cocktails, looting and starting fires, as opposed to many cities where police were specifically instructed not to arrest anyone and to show restraint even under attack. Now he was stupid, because even the lady caught in the act of throwing a Molotov cocktail into a police vehicle with 4 cops in it, she was bailed out by a former member of Obama’s staff

Oh, and giving you the leap of an assumption that he actually ever did that. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 04, 2020, 10:39:20 PM
That phrase is interesting because it's imprecise enough to be true and false at the same time.

We've not specified what the proportionality is to. We've also not really specified what a "victim" is. Does that mean an unarmed person? A person that didn't deserve it?

We know black people are killed by police disproportionally to white people. This is math. Unless the numbers are more than 3 to 1 it would be disproportionate to general population. Now one might have to argue we'd have to go into geographic factors. And we'd have to parse through different things.

We also know there's going to be a certain thumb on the scale in all the retellings because there simply isn't much robust oversight. The people shot are dead. The people shooting are the ones often writing the reports. The people overseeing them are most often strongly empathizing with them and very often willing to cover for them. Our data is most often rosier than reality, logic should tell us. 

Does this mean these killings are happing all over? Most likely not. They are certianly not happening at the rate that certain hysterias seem to paint. But I do think it's a thing (and you know what, police killing white victims is pretty terrible too)
Just taking the raw numbers, police shoot and kill twice as many whites as blacks.  As you correctly note, if all other factors were equal, the ratio should be on the order of 3:1.
But all other factors are not equal.  Blacks commit more violent crimes than whites do.  I've seen summaries of two different surveys--one a couple of years ago and one a couple of days ago in the WaPo, that say that, under the same circumstances, police are very slightly more likely to kill white suspects.  When you get to other forms of hostile interaction, the statistics all support the idea of cops harassing, hassling, getting physical with blacks they encounter in the line of duty than with whites.  And all that stuff rightly leads to blacks not trusting cops, and thinking that "call the police if you're in trouble" is crazy talk.  But cops are not killing blacks in circumstances where they would not kill whites.
The idea that police "overkill" young black men is widespread, particularly among blacks.  I listened to a podcast today on which the guest speaker was Michael Steele, the former head of the RNC, African American, and he talked about how he felt compelled to warn his sons of how to behave around police officer because "we know" how dangerous it is to be black and interacting with police.  But he's mistaken.  It's just not true.
It also was not true, BTW, that blacks were killed in disproportionate numbers in Vietnam, although many black leaders, including MLK, and many others as well, believed it at the time and still do.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 04, 2020, 10:41:25 PM
Law and order President on one side and defunding the police on the other side

Has the left gone completely crazy

How does this not help Trump
He's loving this. He needs an enemy to point to and say "look how bad THEY are"...

Because if not, he might be judged on his record. :57:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 10:43:11 PM
Just taking the raw numbers, police shoot and kill twice as many whites as blacks.  As you correctly note, if all other factors were equal, the ratio should be on the order of 3:1.
But all other factors are not equal.  Blacks commit more violent crimes than whites do.  I've seen summaries of two different surveys--one a couple of years ago and one a couple of days ago in the WaPo, that say that, under the same circumstances, police are very slightly more likely to kill white suspects.  When you get to other forms of hostile interaction, the statistics all support the idea of cops harassing, hassling, getting physical with blacks they encounter in the line of duty than with whites.  And all that stuff rightly leads to blacks not trusting cops, and thinking that "call the police if you're in trouble" is crazy talk.  But cops are not killing blacks in circumstances where they would not kill whites.
The idea that police "overkill" young black men is widespread, particularly among blacks.  I listened to a podcast today on which the guest speaker was Michael Steele, the former head of the RNC, African American, and he talked about how he felt compelled to warn his sons of how to behave around police officer because "we know" how dangerous it is to be black and interacting with police.  But he's mistaken.  It's just not true.
It also was not true, BTW, that blacks were killed in disproportionate numbers in Vietnam, although many black leaders, including MLK, and many others as well, believed it at the time and still do.
Be careful Sooner.  You are not speaking in unity with the celebs or media.  You could get Drew Breesed - especially if you say you love this country
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 10:48:36 PM
He's loving this. He needs an enemy to point to and say "look how bad THEY are"...

Because if not, he might be judged on his record. :57:
The great mind reader you are!

maybe he is lying and doesn’t love this country( although that would be inconsistent with every thing he has done- popular or not)

maybe he does love this- because he knows that so many who voted for him are now extremely concerned about the complete lack of control of violence going on around them.

come on.  Hate him.  You have to acknowledge he is sticking with his convictions even though virtually every microphone is against him.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 10:53:11 PM
Another note- don’t assume he can’t win big on his record just because you don’t like it. 

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CBBOrf3naT-/?igshid=hyjwsgczabjo
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 04, 2020, 10:58:48 PM
Yes- besides POTUS telling law enforcement to defend themselves against non peaceful protesters and also to try to catch and arrest people caught throwing Molotov cocktails, looting and starting fires, as opposed to many cities where police were specifically instructed not to arrest anyone and to show restraint even under attack. Now he was stupid, because even the lady caught in the act of throwing a Molotov cocktail into a police vehicle with 4 cops in it, she was bailed out by a former member of Obama’s staff

Oh, and giving you the leap of an assumption that he actually ever did that.
I would very much like them to catch many looters. I'd like no looters. Ideally they can focus on that rather than blowing up protesters doing next to nothing. I've seen a lot of videos of that. 

As for our cocktail thrower. You've conflated two stories. There's the woman who was bailed out by her friend, she allegedly threw a Molotov cocktail into an empty police with a broken window. The other woman, who threw one that didn't light into a van with people is being held without bail. While I agree there are some issues with the bail system, it's one that exists for a reason. In the eyes of the law, they're both innocent people. If you wanna flip out at the judge, have at. But once the bail is set, if your rich friend wants to step forward, that's their business. 

He told cops please not be too nice with cuffed suspects. I suppose in a subtext-free world, he's just unconcerned with a little old bump on the noggin. When a protested was escorted from one his rallies. "Try not to hurt him. If you do, I'll defend you in court. Don't worry about it." (Christ me answering that will make Badge's teeth grind. I'm sorry my friend. I should stop)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 04, 2020, 10:59:20 PM
That the violence is coming from conservatives.
Ah.  OK.  I was with BAB in not understanding what you found ridiculous about my post.
Here's what I posted: "I do think that in general the protests on the other side push more readily into violence, but some, maybe a lot, of the violence occurring about the edges of this protest movement is coming from 'conservatives' who are acting in order to discredit the protesters."

Note that I put "conservatives" in quotes.  I seem to not know what a conservative is anymore, even though I have spent my life thinking that I was one.  They (we) used to be people who stood for small government, lower taxes, rule of law, high character, and an opportunity society that lifted all boats.  Now they seem to stand for knocking heads and bringing in armored personnel carriers and standing behind the police even in cases of obvious police misconduct, as well as celebrating the lowest-character POTUS we've had since maybe forever.  (I'm not describing you, BTW, just people who once would have been considered borderline white separatists but now march proudly under the conservative banner and seem to have taken control of the movement.)
Beyond that, I presumed that "some, maybe a lot" of the violence around the edges of these protests is not being committed by leftists but by some of these fringe nutjobs running false flag operations.  I have no proof of that, of course.  But I would be surprised if we were to learn that the alt-right just sat on its thumbs while all this was going on.  And just lumping all the violence under the heading "antifa" doesn't seem like a very satisfactory answer either, as much as I would like that to be the case.
If that's "ridiculous," well, then I guess I'm at a loss for what to say next.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 11:02:27 PM
I would very much like them to catch many looters. I'd like no looters. Ideally they can focus on that rather than blowing up protesters doing next to nothing. I've seen a lot of videos of that.

As for our cocktail thrower. You've conflated two stories. There's the woman who was bailed out by her friend, she allegedly threw a Molotov cocktail into an empty police with a broken window. The other woman, who threw one that didn't light into a van with people is being held without bail. While I agree there are some issues with the bail system, it's one that exists for a reason. In the eyes of the law, they're both innocent people. If you wanna flip out at the judge, have at. But once the bail is set, if your rich friend wants to step forward, that's their business.

He told cops please not be too nice with cuffed suspects. I suppose in a subtext-free world, he's just unconcerned with a little old bump on the noggin. When a protested was escorted from one his rallies. "Try not to hurt him. If you do, I'll defend you in court. Don't worry about it." (Christ me answering that will make Badge's teeth grind. I'm sorry my friend. I should stop)
You are correct- I did overlap 2 stories. But the friend WAS a former low level Obama staff member.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 11:19:15 PM
Ah.  OK.  I was with BAB in not understanding what you found ridiculous about my post.
Here's what I posted: "I do think that in general the protests on the other side push more readily into violence, but some, maybe a lot, of the violence occurring about the edges of this protest movement is coming from 'conservatives' who are acting in order to discredit the protesters."

Note that I put "conservatives" in quotes.  I seem to not know what a conservative is anymore, even though I have spent my life thinking that I was one.  They (we) used to be people who stood for small government, lower taxes, rule of law, high character, and an opportunity society that lifted all boats.  Now they seem to stand for knocking heads and bringing in armored personnel carriers and standing behind the police even in cases of obvious police misconduct, as well as celebrating the lowest-character POTUS we've had since maybe forever.  (I'm not describing you, BTW, just people who once would have been considered borderline white separatists but now march proudly under the conservative banner and seem to have taken control of the movement.)
Beyond that, I presumed that "some, maybe a lot" of the violence around the edges of these protests is not being committed by leftists but by some of these fringe nutjobs running false flag operations.  I have no proof of that, of course.  But I would be surprised if we were to learn that the alt-right just sat on its thumbs while all this was going on.  And just lumping all the violence under the heading "antifa" doesn't seem like a very satisfactory answer either, as much as I would like that to be the case.
If that's "ridiculous," well, then I guess I'm at a loss for what to say next.
Ok- your thoughts are not ridiculous at all as to who the antagonists are. In fact- there has already been some white supremacists caught and arrested for stirring shit op online. And, you are also correct on the other fringe groups- there is an ongoing investigative report going on by Lara Logan, a very respected reporter. She has found numerous fringe groups with all kinds of agendas, including Antifa 

as far as conservatives- I can’t put data to this but it fits so many people I know or have met. They are still very much your first description

They are torn.  They don’t particularly care for POTUS, and even despise him in some cases. But they see the potential alternatives as unacceptable.  They have been hearing the voices of opposition, and they feel those voices are diametrically opposed to their own. Gun control, immigration, religion, taxes, freedom of speech, and in and on. These are the people now who we were discussing before- looking at the pandemic and the racial environment and see only two sides.  They are clearly uncomfortable with only two sides but given that- they will likely go towards the guy you described above. They feel that his not polished, in career politician, Washington outsider is far better than the other things they hear ( like lock down until there is a vaccine or defunded the police)

Lastly- this may seem controversial and people may or may not agree with it which is fine but I happen to agree with it, they feel like from the moment Trump won the election perhaps even before, there has been a concerted effort from the other side including the media to destroy his presidency. They feel that given the constant investigations and impeachment and all the things that Have gone on that he has been fighting with two hands behind his back and actually has been successful given all of that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 04, 2020, 11:36:06 PM
You are correct- I did overlap 2 stories. But the friend WAS a former low level Obama staff member.
This is accurate. A former low level Obama staff's friend does stand accused of burninf an empty police van. As she seems to come from privilege, I am interested to see how it gets pled. The process for getting the evidence against one's self is actually pretty tricky, so it'll be interesting to see what comes out there. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 05, 2020, 12:21:28 AM
He's loving this. He needs an enemy to point to and say "look how bad THEY are"...

Because if not, he might be judged on his record. :57:
see thats the thing 

he doesnt have to point to anybody cause they are pointing to themselves

they are doing all the work for him

just wait till you see his next batch of campaign ads that will probably come out

after this has died down
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 05, 2020, 01:13:29 AM
Ok- your thoughts are not ridiculous at all as to who the antagonists are. In fact- there has already been some white supremacists caught and arrested for stirring shit op online. And, you are also correct on the other fringe groups- there is an ongoing investigative report going on by Lara Logan, a very respected reporter. She has found numerous fringe groups with all kinds of agendas, including Antifa 

as far as conservatives- I can’t put data to this but it fits so many people I know or have met. They are still very much your first description

They are torn.  They don’t particularly care for POTUS, and even despise him in some cases. But they see the potential alternatives as unacceptable.  They have been hearing the voices of opposition, and they feel those voices are diametrically opposed to their own. Gun control, immigration, religion, taxes, freedom of speech, and in and on. These are the people now who we were discussing before- looking at the pandemic and the racial environment and see only two sides.  They are clearly uncomfortable with only two sides but given that- they will likely go towards the guy you described above. They feel that his not polished, in career politician, Washington outsider is far better than the other things they hear ( like lock down until there is a vaccine or defunded the police)

Lastly- this may seem controversial and people may or may not agree with it which is fine but I happen to agree with it, they feel like from the moment Trump won the election perhaps even before, there has been a concerted effort from the other side including the media to destroy his presidency. They feel that given the constant investigations and impeachment and all the things that Have gone on that he has been fighting with two hands behind his back and actually has been successful given all of that.
Thanks for the response.
I understand the "he's our jackass and, as such, I'll choose him over their jackass" argument.  It's an understandable way of dealing with an unsatisfactory situation.  I think a lot of people on both sides made that calculation in 2016, and probably the same thing will be the case this year.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on June 05, 2020, 01:16:18 AM
I can't get over how many people are convinced that such a high % of looters are actually part of Team Red or Blue.    
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 05, 2020, 01:31:33 AM
I can't get over how many people are convinced that such a high % of looters are actually part of Team Red or Blue.   
Im convinced the looters must be stopped 

I just wish the various blue city mayors felt the same

Whats ironic is that all the cities where they are pushing defunding the police are blue cities and have been for decades

its their police departments run by mayors and city councils that control policies and procedures their police departments follow

now all of a sudden they want to do away with the police
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 05, 2020, 05:38:12 AM
Thanks for the response.
I understand the "he's our jackass and, as such, I'll choose him over their jackass" argument.  It's an understandable way of dealing with an unsatisfactory situation.  I think a lot of people on both sides made that calculation in 2016, and probably the same thing will be the case this year.
Well said. I sincerely did not vote in 16, for the first time as an adult.   I am feeling similar now.  I just wish I could get excited about one of the choices.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 05, 2020, 05:40:40 AM
Have you been hearing about the Boogaloo?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiZlKm8sOrpAhVslXIEHSTYCA0Q0PADegQIARAH&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F2020%2F06%2F03%2Fus%2Fboogaloo-extremist-protests-invs%2Findex.html&usg=AOvVaw2damvJPAUMwjm434zwy2eS



No particular, discernible political affiliation.    You can’t make this shit up. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2020, 08:50:43 AM
The great mind reader you are!

maybe he is lying and doesn’t love this country( although that would be inconsistent with every thing he has done- popular or not)

maybe he does love this- because he knows that so many who voted for him are now extremely concerned about the complete lack of control of violence going on around them.

come on.  Hate him.  You have to acknowledge he is sticking with his convictions even though virtually every microphone is against him.
His intentions are easily discerned from his behavior. Reading his mind is simple because it's so transparent.

But Trump understands one thing: to mobilize voters you need fear. Fear of the "other" [mostly China and immigrants] has been his calling card to date, but he knows he was only elected because there was a long-standing fear of Hillary built in amongst conservatives. Now he has something else to point to for his supporters -- the "other side" is lawless rioters and looters and anarchists. It's not true, and doesn't take into account the cause of the riots, but he actively wants those rioters to be as bad as they possibly can so that he can show his supporters that he's the only man protecting them from the rioters.

see thats the thing

he doesnt have to point to anybody cause they are pointing to themselves

they are doing all the work for him

just wait till you see his next batch of campaign ads that will probably come out

after this has died down
They are doing plenty of the work, true. But do you notice how past Presidents have tried to unify, whereas he actively works to inflame the protesters. They're taking the bait beautifully, because they don't understand that their actions benefit him. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2020, 08:54:09 AM
I should point out that here in Los Angeles, the proposal for "defunding police" next year would more accurately be described as "not giving them a big increase in their budget next year." Quite literally everything they're talking about cutting was from future increases in spending, not the current baseline.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 05, 2020, 09:20:13 AM
I told my wife that most of this violence is being done and/or incited by the 0.5% radical left and the 0.5% radical right. It's also EXTREMELY likely that a ton of the posts on twitter, bookface, etc. are from places like North Korea, China, Iran, Venezuela and Russia.


We Americans cannot allow 1% (or less) of this country's residents and foreigners tear us apart. 

But, it seems that we are allowing it. I'm sad for this.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 05, 2020, 09:34:36 AM
His intentions are easily discerned from his behavior. Reading his mind is simple because it's so transparent.

But Trump understands one thing: to mobilize voters you need fear. Fear of the "other" [mostly China and immigrants] has been his calling card to date, but he knows he was only elected because there was a long-standing fear of Hillary built in amongst conservatives. Now he has something else to point to for his supporters -- the "other side" is lawless rioters and looters and anarchists. It's not true, and doesn't take into account the cause of the riots, but he actively wants those rioters to be as bad as they possibly can so that he can show his supporters that he's the only man protecting them from the rioters.
They are doing plenty of the work, true. But do you notice how past Presidents have tried to unify, whereas he actively works to inflame the protesters. They're taking the bait beautifully, because they don't understand that their actions benefit him.
I respect your opinion bwarbiany.

it seems that the fear that may drive voters to him is actually grounded in what they see as facts. Maybe he is taking advantage of that, just like The Dem nominee who is running very inflammatory, decisive ads to create the narrative that his opponent is associated with racially painful events.
but the prevailing conversations coming from policy voices which would be their other choice, and fanned by the media and the voice leaders on TV and social media( celebs)- scare the living hell out of them, and always have- long before this Prez was around- and likely always will.
You can’t pin the lefts positions on gun control, abortion, immigration, law enforcement- hell the list is endless- on POTUS.
I assure you- if he did not exist- their fear of what they see on their iPhones and tv screens right now would still scare the shit out of them.
Here is but one example.  It shocks them that the media is more concerned about the “photo op” which they see all the time from other Prez, politicians, etc - than the bacterium that St Johns charge was set ablaze and that the “ peaceful protesters @ were “ peacefully stopped “ by the national guard as they marched toward the Vietnam Memorial.  Nobody doubts they would have de-faced it.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 05, 2020, 09:38:08 AM
His opponent understands to mobilize voters you need fear.  Just watch his most recent ad.  Stoking fear, race baiting and total divisiveness.  In fact not only not uniting- drawing huge lines in the sand. 

But for some- they can only see that from POTUS. It goes right over their head
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 05, 2020, 09:51:40 AM
https://www.facebook.com/1541453915/posts/10221676767738753/?

This could be conservatives in this car
What the hell did she say?I heard White Bitch but the rest too much babble
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 05, 2020, 10:06:55 AM
Does any sane person actually believe conservatives are supplying protesters with bricks?

I guess after the Russia hoax they think the American public will believe anything.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2020, 10:29:42 AM
I respect your opinion bwarbiany.

it seems that the fear that may drive voters to him is actually grounded in what they see as facts. Maybe he is taking advantage of that, just like The Dem nominee who is running very inflammatory, decisive ads to create the narrative that his opponent is associated with racially painful events.
but the prevailing conversations coming from policy voices which would be their other choice, and fanned by the media and the voice leaders on TV and social media( celebs)- scare the living hell out of them, and always have- long before this Prez was around- and likely always will.
You can’t pin the lefts positions on gun control, abortion, immigration, law enforcement- hell the list is endless- on POTUS.
I assure you- if he did not exist- their fear of what they see on their iPhones and tv screens right now would still scare the shit out of them.
Here is but one example.  It shocks them that the media is more concerned about the “photo op” which they see all the time from other Prez, politicians, etc - than the bacterium that St Johns charge was set ablaze and that the “ peaceful protesters @ were “ peacefully stopped “ by the national guard as they marched toward the Vietnam Memorial.  Nobody doubts they would have de-faced it. 
There will always be conflict between the two sides. And yes, it is typical that part of politics is not showing what you'll do right, but what your opponent will do wrong. Or in the case of an incumbent, HAS done wrong.

When it comes to his opponent creating ads showing he's been divisive, that he's associated with racially painful events, etc... Well, POTUS walked right into that one with SO many of his statements and actions. As 320 pointed out the the protesters are doing a good job of ruining their own reputation by rioting and looting, if POTUS didn't want to be called racially divisive maybe he shouldn't have been racially divisive. 

I can think of most of the other potential Team Red candidates from 2016, but I can't imagine that very many of them would be easy targets for these sorts of ads.

His opponent understands to mobilize voters you need fear.  Just watch his most recent ad.  Stoking fear, race baiting and total divisiveness.  In fact not only not uniting- drawing huge lines in the sand.

But for some- they can only see that from POTUS. It goes right over their head
I'm a generally reasonable and even-keel guy; I think >10 years here may support that my own impression of myself is accurate to the rest of you guys...

...and yet this POTUS in particular scares the hell out of me
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on June 05, 2020, 10:31:08 AM
I think everyone is looking for an answer that supports their beliefs/perceptions.   The reality is probably all of the above when it comes to who is creating the riots at peaceful protests.... cops included.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 05, 2020, 10:38:55 AM
We need to heal, but we need to build trust. That is, and always been, the key.

The question is how.

More Junior Achievement programs? Better educational opportunities, for both kids and adults? Real investment in depressed areas, instead of a Band-Aid here and there?

Gang members need to be rooted out, and either reformed, or jailed. Period. 

Being a gang member - of any gang - to me (my OPINION) is the equivalent of being a terrorist.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 05, 2020, 10:45:13 AM
There will always be conflict between the two sides. And yes, it is typical that part of politics is not showing what you'll do right, but what your opponent will do wrong. Or in the case of an incumbent, HAS done wrong.

When it comes to his opponent creating ads showing he's been divisive, that he's associated with racially painful events, etc... Well, POTUS walked right into that one with SO many of his statements and actions. As 320 pointed out the the protesters are doing a good job of ruining their own reputation by rioting and looting, if POTUS didn't want to be called racially divisive maybe he shouldn't have been racially divisive.

I can think of most of the other potential Team Red candidates from 2016, but I can't imagine that very many of them would be easy targets for these sorts of ads.
I'm a generally reasonable and even-keel guy; I think >10 years here may support that my own impression of myself is accurate to the rest of you guys...

...and yet this POTUS in particular scares the hell out of me.

Fair.  Yes, you are very balanced. I would like to think I am too.   This POTUS scares the hell out of me too.  So does the other choice.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 05, 2020, 11:02:53 AM
 This POTUS scares the hell out of me too.  So does the other choice.
Truth
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2020, 11:12:11 AM
FYI I was thinking more about it... And when someone was asked for a concrete policy change to help improve this situation...

It's simple--fix the qualified immunity problem. 

Today it's possible to sue the police department in civil court for excessive force / brutality / wrongful death. But due to qualified immunity--and in particular the way qualified immunity is adjudicated--it is NEARLY impossible to sue the individual offending officer in civil court and have any chance of success. 

So while cities may occasionally feel the pain in their pocketbooks due to losing a lawsuit (and it's just taxpayer dollars anyway), the individual officers are mostly shielded from civil liability.

End that shield.

Here's how I see it playing out:




This uses market forces to incentivize the behavior to end. I've solved it for you.

You're welcome.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 05, 2020, 11:14:57 AM
FYI I was thinking more about it... And when someone was asked for a concrete policy change to help improve this situation...

It's simple--fix the qualified immunity problem.

Today it's possible to sue the police department in civil court for excessive force / brutality / wrongful death. But due to qualified immunity--and in particular the way qualified immunity is adjudicated--it is NEARLY impossible to sue the individual offending officer in civil court and have any chance of success.

So while cities may occasionally feel the pain in their pocketbooks due to losing a lawsuit (and it's just taxpayer dollars anyway), the individual officers are mostly shielded from civil liability.

End that shield.

Here's how I see it playing out:


  • If you end that shield, and individual officers are subject to civil liability, it will only take a few examples of officers losing their financial worlds before an insurance system--similar to medical malpractice insurance--pops up to shield them.
  • The police malpractice insurance industry, obviously, will need to have ways to accurately risk-price individual officers. Much like getting auto insurance, your risk is mainly tied to your own actions, and there are clear red flags that suggest you're a higher risk (in auto insurance, regularly getting speeding tickets or causing accidents, for one).
  • Those red flags might be things like citizen complaints against cops, IA investigations, etc. Some cops [maybe one Derek Chauvin] may find themselves eventually priced out of policing due to their risk profile being so bad that they can't afford the insurance. Want to weed out the bad apples? They'll price themselves out.
  • Officers could possibly qualify for premium reductions by doing things like regularly taking alternative escalation training, community sensitivity courses, etc. You can find ways to reinforce positive behavior and make it in officers' financial interests to do so.


This uses market forces to incentivize the behavior to end. I've solved it for you.

You're welcome.
Send this to your local US Representative, and to your 2 US Senators. NOW.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 05, 2020, 11:15:37 AM
BTW, what's up with the locked thread that Dr. Doom started? It only has one post, which says nothing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2020, 11:17:43 AM
BTW, what's up with the locked thread that Dr. Doom started? It only has one post, which says nothing.
I think it's intended to be a joke, Badge... 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2020, 11:18:06 AM
Send this to your local US Representative, and to your 2 US Senators. NOW.
Sure... Send it to yours too ;-) 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 05, 2020, 11:19:31 AM
Have you been hearing about the Boogaloo?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiZlKm8sOrpAhVslXIEHSTYCA0Q0PADegQIARAH&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F2020%2F06%2F03%2Fus%2Fboogaloo-extremist-protests-invs%2Findex.html&usg=AOvVaw2damvJPAUMwjm434zwy2eS



No particular, discernible political affiliation.    You can’t make this shit up.
That's a weird collection.  I'm not commenting on your link, but I read a story on this "group" earlier this morning.  Neo-Nazis, white separatists, 2nd Amendment extremists who in some cases include black members.
I've seen it written as "Boogaloo Bois" also.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 05, 2020, 11:20:15 AM
FYI I was thinking more about it... And when someone was asked for a concrete policy change to help improve this situation...

It's simple--fix the qualified immunity problem.

Today it's possible to sue the police department in civil court for excessive force / brutality / wrongful death. But due to qualified immunity--and in particular the way qualified immunity is adjudicated--it is NEARLY impossible to sue the individual offending officer in civil court and have any chance of success.

So while cities may occasionally feel the pain in their pocketbooks due to losing a lawsuit (and it's just taxpayer dollars anyway), the individual officers are mostly shielded from civil liability.

End that shield.

Here's how I see it playing out:


  • If you end that shield, and individual officers are subject to civil liability, it will only take a few examples of officers losing their financial worlds before an insurance system--similar to medical malpractice insurance--pops up to shield them.
  • The police malpractice insurance industry, obviously, will need to have ways to accurately risk-price individual officers. Much like getting auto insurance, your risk is mainly tied to your own actions, and there are clear red flags that suggest you're a higher risk (in auto insurance, regularly getting speeding tickets or causing accidents, for one).
  • Those red flags might be things like citizen complaints against cops, IA investigations, etc. Some cops [maybe one Derek Chauvin] may find themselves eventually priced out of policing due to their risk profile being so bad that they can't afford the insurance. Want to weed out the bad apples? They'll price themselves out.
  • Officers could possibly qualify for premium reductions by doing things like regularly taking alternative escalation training, community sensitivity courses, etc. You can find ways to reinforce positive behavior and make it in officers' financial interests to do so.


This uses market forces to incentivize the behavior to end. I've solved it for you.

You're welcome.
that great but it puts all pressure for the police to change and not the black community

There should be certain things the black community should also do
like drugs and gangs being reduced 
I also think it would be good to have scheduled ride alongs where community reps actually ride along with police officers to see what a patrol actually is like
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2020, 11:20:42 AM
BTW, what's up with the locked thread that Dr. Doom started? It only has one post, which says nothing.
Nobody posted anything, which I thought was against the rules.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 05, 2020, 11:21:13 AM
FYI I was thinking more about it... And when someone was asked for a concrete policy change to help improve this situation...

It's simple--fix the qualified immunity problem.

Today it's possible to sue the police department in civil court for excessive force / brutality / wrongful death. But due to qualified immunity--and in particular the way qualified immunity is adjudicated--it is NEARLY impossible to sue the individual offending officer in civil court and have any chance of success.

So while cities may occasionally feel the pain in their pocketbooks due to losing a lawsuit (and it's just taxpayer dollars anyway), the individual officers are mostly shielded from civil liability.

End that shield.

Here's how I see it playing out:


  • If you end that shield, and individual officers are subject to civil liability, it will only take a few examples of officers losing their financial worlds before an insurance system--similar to medical malpractice insurance--pops up to shield them.
  • The police malpractice insurance industry, obviously, will need to have ways to accurately risk-price individual officers. Much like getting auto insurance, your risk is mainly tied to your own actions, and there are clear red flags that suggest you're a higher risk (in auto insurance, regularly getting speeding tickets or causing accidents, for one).
  • Those red flags might be things like citizen complaints against cops, IA investigations, etc. Some cops [maybe one Derek Chauvin] may find themselves eventually priced out of policing due to their risk profile being so bad that they can't afford the insurance. Want to weed out the bad apples? They'll price themselves out.
  • Officers could possibly qualify for premium reductions by doing things like regularly taking alternative escalation training, community sensitivity courses, etc. You can find ways to reinforce positive behavior and make it in officers' financial interests to do so.


This uses market forces to incentivize the behavior to end. I've solved it for you.

You're welcome.
SCOTUS has several cases bearing on this issue before it for this term.

But Congress could act independently of the Courts.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2020, 11:22:42 AM
My question was not really about what could be done to fix that problem, it was about what could be done that would satisfy most of the protesters.  I suspect something fairly "technical" like that would not.  The two things may not be the same.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 05, 2020, 11:24:35 AM
It's a needed reform, IMO, without regard to the particulars of this protest movement.

And without regard to the "black community" (I don't like that term, but can't think of a good replacement) dealing with some of its own internal issues that have little to do with police brutality.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2020, 11:33:23 AM
There should be certain things the black community should also do
like drugs and gangs being reduced
I think Prohibition taught us that "drugs" and gangs are a result of government artificially creating black markets in desired goods, not a creation of black communities
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 05, 2020, 11:40:46 AM
I think Prohibition taught us that "drugs" and gangs are a result of government artificially creating black markets in desired goods, not a creation of black communities.

thats a copout

drugs and gangs wouldnt exist without indifference from the community
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 05, 2020, 11:50:33 AM
It's a needed reform, IMO, without regard to the particulars of this protest movement.

And without regard to the "black community" (I don't like that term, but can't think of a good replacement) dealing with some of its own internal issues that have little to do with police brutality.
That's the gang member = terrorist thing I talked about. Reform, or jail. Their choice.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2020, 12:06:18 PM
thats a copout

drugs and gangs wouldnt exist without indifference from the community
Really? Is the same true of the mafia? Is the same true of anyone who lives under an autocratic government? 

I think you overestimate the ability to overcome when the group that you're up against is:


This happens the world over, and blaming the victim is the copout. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 05, 2020, 12:07:51 PM
That's the gang member = terrorist thing I talked about. Reform, or jail. Their choice.
we are trying to find common ground between a police force seen as racist and the community where crime is rampant

something is going to have to change on both sides

it cant be a one way street
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 05, 2020, 12:14:07 PM
Really? Is the same true of the mafia? Is the same true of anyone who lives under an autocratic government?

I think you overestimate the ability to overcome when the group that you're up against is:

  • Organized.
  • Powerful.
  • Willing to use violence to retain that power.

This happens the world over, and blaming the victim is the copout.


again let me remind you that policies and procedures used by police are administered by elected officials mayor citizen council police chief are all elected

if the policies and procedures are bad then its up to a city's elected officials to change it

a police department is not its own entity its a product of the wishes of a cities elected officials
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2020, 12:19:20 PM
The police force here has the same racial makeup as the city, it's actually more black than the city is now by a bit.  The mayor is black, the PC is a white female.  It's not as if some change in the racial makeup of the leadership is really possible in a way that would satisfy the marchers (who have been mostly peaceful here of late, the looters have been caught or shut down by the curfew, which now starts at 8 PM).

The mayor marched with the protesters yesterday.  I'm struggling to grasp what the protester want to see happen that would cause them to declare victory and go home.

I suspect some of them are wanting to prove they really really are not racist by protesting, it's more of a statement than anything real.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2020, 12:19:45 PM
again let me remind you that policies and procedures used by police are administered by elected officials mayor citizen council police chief are all elected

if the policies and procedures are bad then its up to a city's elected officials to change it

a police department is not its own entity its a product of the wished of a cities elected officials
That is true, but gangs are emboldened by the drug war, which is REALLY hard to change policy at the city level. Some have done it [decriminalizing marijuana, for example], but if you want to remove the power from the gangs, you have to remove their market, and city politicians can't do that.

We talked several pages ago about why I think the structural political situation is difficult to overcome, because the elected official that goes against the police is not only going to forfeit campaign support from the unions, but will be shouted down as "soft on crime", which is the exact opposite of what those anti-gang black communities want. They want tough on gang-related crime but without killing innocent people in their communities as collateral damage. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 05, 2020, 12:27:57 PM
The programs most republicans are against funding are the same programs that will help lower gang participation and crime rates.  That's the face palm aspect of this situation.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 05, 2020, 12:32:01 PM
From the Chicago Trib's John Kass:

(there are a lot of good people out there, but we only hear about the bad ones)

*********

The looting was over days ago, and on Thursday, the boards were up, covering the windows of the Jewel at 75th and Stony Island Avenue.

The store had been looted. You want to play politics with this? Go ahead. Everyone else is playing politics now. Astonish your friends with some of your magnificent social media virtue signaling.

But those are just words. And on 75th and Stony Island, words are not enough.

Many in this African American neighborhood had worked desperately hard, for years, to bring full-service supermarkets to the food deserts of the South Side.

All they wanted was what the people who make their livings at home on laptops want:

A store with fresh meat, and baby formula that wasn’t out of date. A store with a pharmacy, and fresh vegetables, a safe place for the young and the old to shop. A store as symbol of better times ahead.


But now that it’s been looted, where will the mothers get the diapers and the baby food? Where will the seniors get medicine? An old woman who can no longer drive will just have to take a bus or two.

I asked a man I met on 75th Street, Avery Hardy.

“I don’t know where they’ll go, take a bus maybe, far if they can,” said Hardy, a kind, elderly gentleman. 

“We’ll have to help them somehow.”

I asked him: How? How do you find the mothers? How do you find the seniors who need insulin?

“I don’t know,” Mr. Hardy said and began to weep. “I just don’t know. I’m a good person. I raised my children to be good. They didn’t do this. They have their own homes, their own children. I look at this and I’m tired of this. I’m so tired of this.”

We were standing across the street from the store. The plywood boards were bright enough in the sun, but they didn’t gleam like those plate glass windows once did.

“I never thought I’d see this again,” he said, shaking his head. “All that looting.”

Police were in the store parking lot on Thursday, working on a case. But police weren’t there when the store was looted days ago, as protests over the Minneapolis police killing of George Floyd erupted into chaos all over Chicago.

Chicago’s mayor and Illinois’ governor were caught unprepared, and dispatched police to protect downtown. But police couldn’t protect it, violent factions hijacked the protests, and the destruction and looting began.

“They shouldn’t have done it,” said Mr. Hardy. “They did it because George Floyd got killed, because police put the knee in his neck and killed him. That’s not right. But this is really sickening.

“The one side is marching against the police, the other side was perpetrating looting, stealing stuff, then giving it away. I’ve seen this before years ago. I never wanted to see it again. I’m tired.”

Downtown Chicago will come back. There’s enough money and politics to drive a return to at least a version of itself, and we journalists will talk gushingly about renewal, and some of us will avoid mentioning all those moving out.

But what of 75th and Stony, the people who can’t run off to their lake house? What of people who don’t benefit from downtown glitz and media leverage?

I asked a young woman where her friends without cars will go to get the diapers and the baby food.

“They’re pretty much buying the diapers and the formula from the looters that sell the products and the merchandise,” she told me. “Some looters gave it away. But a lot are selling it back to people who need it.”

How do the black marketeers advertise their products?

“On social media,” she said. “Social media is what people do.”

The other day, a reader forwarded a Facebook video taken by a man named Robert Koko Walker. I unsuccessfully tried to reach him.

Walker took his video as the looting was tearing the store apart, crowds running in and pushing carts out, taking what they could, pushing boxes on the sidewalk when there were no carts, rolling display tubs and bins through the doors.

But there was also great moral courage.

Because in Walker’s video, as the looters ripped the store apart, other neighbors were trying to sweep broken glass from the parking lot.

A woman admonished the looters to stop. You could hear her voice from the parking lot, confronting the others. She was just a woman alone facing the mob.

She displayed more courage than any tough-talking politician with bodyguards, more courage than a columnist on a laptop.

“Stop!” she shouted at the looters. “We won’t have a grocery store! They’re not going to put it back in the community! We are not about this!”

Walker made his way around the parking lot and into the store. He was no fan of the looting.

“Look, half of them cleaning up, half of them taking (stuff). And police can’t do nothing,” he says. “Man, it looks like a war zone around here. For real. A war zone. And still, there’s good people cleaning up.

“I don’t even know what to say anymore. This makes no sense. And here’s the bad part. This time next week, where are they going to eat? They killed the stores … I’m a loss for words.”


But think of the good. Of all those good people cleaning up and of that brave woman alone, telling the looters to stop, and of Mr. Hardy saying he wanted to help.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 05, 2020, 12:33:21 PM
The programs most republicans are against funding are the same programs that will help lower gang participation and crime rates.  That's the face palm aspect of this situation. 

I face palm this post, because you don't know what "most" republicans (whatever even that is) think.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 05, 2020, 12:33:43 PM
That is true, but gangs are emboldened by the drug war, which is REALLY hard to change policy at the city level. Some have done it [decriminalizing marijuana, for example], but if you want to remove the power from the gangs, you have to remove their market, and city politicians can't do that.

We talked several pages ago about why I think the structural political situation is difficult to overcome, because the elected official that goes against the police is not only going to forfeit campaign support from the unions, but will be shouted down as "soft on crime", which is the exact opposite of what those anti-gang black communities want. They want tough on gang-related crime but without killing innocent people in their communities as collateral damage.
my point is that everybody is yelling to defund the police when in fact the police is a tool used by elected city leaders

change needs to come from the citiy,s leaders not just the police department

and change needs to be facilitated by reducing the crime drugs and gangs 

defunding the police wont only not fix the problem but will elevate it

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 05, 2020, 12:36:38 PM
I face palm this post, because you don't know what "most" republicans (whatever even that is) think.
I know how they vote....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2020, 12:38:43 PM
What is one example of a program that will reduce crime/gang rates that Republicans don't like?

Head Start?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 05, 2020, 12:39:04 PM
I know how they vote....
No, you don't.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2020, 12:50:39 PM
my point is that everybody is yelling to defund the police when in fact the police is a tool used by elected city leaders

change needs to come from the citiy,s leaders not just the police department

and change needs to be facilitated by reducing the crime drugs and gangs

defunding the police wont only not fix the problem but will elevate it

I do agree that defunding the police doesn't fix the problem. That's the wrong avenue to solve the issue. 

My point is that you don't solve the gang problem unless you solve the drug problem, and you don't solve the drug problem unless you change the controlled substances act--or you have SUCH an overwhelming push to legalize something like marijuana that state legislatures are doing it in contravention of federal law. 

City leaders can't solve the drug problem.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 05, 2020, 12:52:07 PM
I was just curious. I'm using a company called Sandstar, and they are handling everything.

In my last house, up North, I used a company called J&K for cabinets. This time, I'd use them over my dead body. Not that they were bad. They are made in China. So, NO. I'll just pay more this time.

For that kitchen, the J&K cost me $6K. The estimate for Omega came in at $18K. I'm sure there were some in the middle, but we (in Illinois) were still struggling with the 2008 thing, so I conserved cash.

In fact, Illinois is still struggling with the 2008 thing, or so they like to say... Glad I sold a while back.
Lol! I've got plenty of experience with J&K. I've used them here and there for years on spec homes and remodels. Whenever I'd use them I would replace most of the hardware and guts with hardware from a manufacturer like blum or richileui. I was bidding kitchens & bathrooms for an entire apartment complex and I tried to get quotes from J&K to supply all the cabinets for the kitchens and bathrooms of 260 units, and one of the sales guys tried telling me J&K was probably too high end for apartments and were more for new homes and remodels and I laughed on the phone. Didn't mean too, just happened naturally.

J&K is good looking, but for the most part it's cheaply made Chinese RTA product. The pricing was great though, but that's until the tariffs came and made it a bit more expensive. I honestly haven't used J&K in awhile. I've got a place in Pompano and one in Hialeah that carries the Chinese RTA  stuff in-stock and the product is virtually the same as J&K. Maybe a little bit less in quality but they are also even cheaper.

It's not bad at all for the price, but to be honest with you, every single cabinet manufacturer from China is not as good as American, Canadian, or European. Europeans make the best stuff, but it's also the most expensive stuff.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2020, 12:53:18 PM
The programs most republicans are against funding are the same programs that will help lower gang participation and crime rates.  That's the face palm aspect of this situation. 
OAM, let's assume for a moment that you're right. Gang problems are the result of poor healthcare options, poor education options, which have resulted in entire portions of cities to be stuck in a "permanent underclass" situation.

So let's say we fund those programs. How long will it take for it to fix the problems in those communities? A generation? Two generations? 

Sounds like the exact sort of pie-in-the-sky thinking that Cincy complains about in the climate thread -- high on hope and short on specifics.

Maybe funding those programs is a good thing, but it won't result in any tangible change on the time horizon that we need it.

What do you have for the SHORT term to solve these problems? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 05, 2020, 01:00:09 PM
OAM, let's assume for a moment that you're right. Gang problems are the result of poor healthcare options, poor education options, which have resulted in entire portions of cities to be stuck in a "permanent underclass" situation.

So let's say we fund those programs. How long will it take for it to fix the problems in those communities? A generation? Two generations?

Sounds like the exact sort of pie-in-the-sky thinking that Cincy complains about in the climate thread -- high on hope and short on specifics.

Maybe funding those programs is a good thing, but it won't result in any tangible change on the time horizon that we need it.

What do you have for the SHORT term to solve these problems?
I believe a short-term solution IS a pie-in-the-sky proposition.  You can't fix decades of wrongdoing quickly, sorry.  It would probably take 2 generations at least - one to grow up in a more accepting society and another for that cohort to raise kids of their own. 

You're suggesting good things, and I agree with you, but yeah...this is going to take a long time to fix.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 05, 2020, 02:08:02 PM
I believe a short-term solution IS a pie-in-the-sky proposition.  You can't fix decades of wrongdoing quickly, sorry.  It would probably take 2 generations at least - one to grow up in a more accepting society and another for that cohort to raise kids of their own. 

You're suggesting good things, and I agree with you, but yeah...this is going to take a long time to fix.
We need to develop trust. Without that, there will be nothing. And trust works both ways.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2020, 02:10:05 PM
We need Sprinkles and Rainbows and Justice for All and a chicken in every pot.

Yay.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 05, 2020, 02:15:10 PM
We need Sprinkles and Rainbows and Justice for All and a chicken in every pot.

Yay.
Can we have brisket instead of chicken?

Or proper chili?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2020, 02:21:19 PM
Yeah, I sort of chuckle at some folks spattering social media with calls for "justice" and burfle like that, as if it's a tangible thing.

We need understanding and trust and better use of the tight end.  It's burfle, pastries to be lapped up by the masses.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 05, 2020, 03:05:18 PM
Can we have brisket instead of chicken?

Or proper chili?
Watch it buster or we'll have to shut this thread down
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2020, 03:19:42 PM
Below was sent to Rep Katie Porter, and slightly different wording to Senators Feinstein and Harris (asking they publicly support the House version and push for similar in the Senate). I also sent a copy to Ayanna Pressley, but Justin Amash's web site doesn't allow email from out-of-district zip codes, so I couldn't forward to him. 

If any of you want to submit something similar to your own Representatives/Senators, feel free to use whatever you like from the below as a template. 


Quote
Dear Representative Porter,

In the wake of the brutal murder of George Floyd at the hands of police, and the subsequent protests, riots, and continued unrest that followed, many of us are asking "how can we solve this problem?"

Many are hoping that we can find a way to end racism, to end systematic and institutionalized poor treatment of minorities in our criminal justice system, and that we as a society can begin to heal.

Unfortunately, what is missing is tangible solutions. I sincerely hope that we can end racism and heal ourselves as a society. I am doing my best, as a white man and a father, to not perpetuate this behavior in my personal life and to make sure that my children are likewise raised not to be a part of a problem, but to be part of the solution. I worry that's a generational target that doesn't help the situation, today, on the ground. It's worthy goal, but the time horizon is too long. I've always believed people aren't born racist; it's inculcated in them by the biases of the generations ahead of them. Their parents, their extended family, their community. Very little that I can do to try to raise my own children properly will help avoid racism in those who are being taught wrongly elsewhere. Which makes trying to solve racism, while a wonderful goal and one that we should pursue, too little and too late to help people today.

I believe that most police officers are good people who chose that life because they want to make their communities safer. The problem is caused by a small minority, but the effects that small minority have on the whole are disastrous. I believe those good officers may detest the actions of the bad ones, but feel powerless to stop it for many--completely understandable--reasons. Sadly, the end result is a system that shields the bad apples from the consequences of their actions.

But we CAN make this better. And we can make this better in a shorter term, by changing the incentives that police have TODAY to act badly, and increasing the incentives to actually weed out the bad apples among them.

House Representatives Ayanna Pressley and Justin Amash are circulating a letter arguing that Congress can put an end to one of the key shields the bad actors in our police system hide behind: Qualified Immunity.

https://twitter.com/justinamash/status/1268353415295500289

Today it's possible to sue the police department in civil court for excessive force / brutality / wrongful death. But due to qualified immunity--and in particular the way qualified immunity is adjudicated--it is NEARLY impossible to sue the individual offending officer in civil court and have any chance of success.

So while cities may occasionally feel the pain in their pocketbooks due to losing a lawsuit (and it's just taxpayer dollars anyway), the individual officers are mostly shielded from civil liability.

Now, it can be argued that we don't want to subject officers to financial ruin because of a lawsuit. As politicians, I'm certain that some of your constituents and supporters, and possibly campaign contributors (police and their union) will argue that this will be the outcome. But that need not be the case, for it's a faulty argument. The medical malpractice insurance industry already gives us a blueprint to avoid that. By ending qualified immunity but also requiring police to carry malpractice insurance, we create a financial system that incentivizes good behavior and punishes bad, and can be tailored to each individual officer based upon their history and risk profile.

Here's how I see it potentially working.

  • The police malpractice insurance industry will need to have ways to accurately risk-price individual officers. Much like getting auto insurance, your risk is mainly tied to your own actions, and there are clear red flags that suggest you're a higher risk (in auto insurance, regularly getting speeding tickets or causing accidents, for one).
  • Those red flags might be things like citizen complaints against officers, IA investigations, history of lawsuits brought, etc. Some officers [such as Derek Chauvin, who had a history of malfeasance before murdering George Floyd] may find themselves eventually priced out of policing due to their risk profile being so bad that they can't afford the insurance. Want to weed out the bad apples? They'll price themselves out by their own actions.
  • Officers could possibly qualify for premium reductions by doing things like regularly taking alternative escalation training, community sensitivity courses, etc. You can find ways to reinforce positive behavior and make it in officers' financial interests to do so. 

The only way that I see to improve this system in the short term--at the federal level which affects all departments--is to end qualified immunity. It is within Congress' power to do so. While this will be fought, I hope that the above will help deflect the arguments which would be used against the bill.

Representative Porter, I ask that you cosponsor Rep Pressley's bill when it is written, and do everything you can to help it pass.

Thank you for your time.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 05, 2020, 03:29:48 PM
Can we have brisket instead of chicken?

Or proper chili?
In theory I'm getting a beef rib for lunch tomorrow. Though a work obligation might force me to send a friend to pick it up.

Let us pray that doesn't happen. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 05, 2020, 03:34:22 PM
Below was sent to Rep Katie Porter, and slightly different wording to Senators Feinstein and Harris (asking they publicly support the House version and push for similar in the Senate). I also sent a copy to Ayanna Pressley, but Justin Amash's web site doesn't allow email from out-of-district zip codes, so I couldn't forward to him.

If any of you want to submit something similar to your own Representatives/Senators, feel free to use whatever you like from the below as a template.



Representative Casten, Senator Durbin, and Senator Duckworth:
 
A friend of mine crafted this letter to his local representative in California, and I tend to agree with it – 100 percent. I really think it can make a difference. I would like you to consider this and have a conversation with Representatives Ayanna Pressley and Justin Amash. I believe this could go a long way toward short-term healing – which we sorely need right now.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on June 05, 2020, 03:36:00 PM
Decades ago, I watched 60 Minutes almost religiously.  Then, they did a piece on the Bradley AFV that was, um, ridiculously slanted, saying its armor would not stand up to a Russian tank round.  Duh.

Then they did one on the Audi "unintended" acceleration issue.  The car mags had a field day with that one, they had inadvertently reproduced the acceleration with an Audi, but the brake lights weren't on.  The real truth was that European cars, not just Audis had the brake pedal closer to the accelerator than was typical for US cars because they had to leave room for the clutch pedal, even if the car was an automatic. 

They did some other show that was similarly bad and I concluded they contrive a story line and then force fit the narrative to that line.  Imagine they come up with a story, several per week, and check it out with film and crews and it turns out they were wrong about it.  What do they show on TV?  They rig the event.

And I have experienced personally an interview where my actual meaning was distorted by editing.
The same experience. Loved 60 minutes in the 70s into the 80s and then I found out about how they rigged and edited 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on June 05, 2020, 03:39:36 PM
Haven't bother to catch up on my reading of this thread, so sorry if this has already been said.

When the American public saw the video  94% of the people of this nation were outraged (according to a survey I saw can remember who did it). 

Even with the protest people were still agreeing with things. However with the riots and looting we have lost the conversation dealing with police brutality and that is a shame. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: rolltidefan on June 05, 2020, 04:53:07 PM
Watch it buster or we'll have to shut this thread down
that's what i was thinking. talk about a divisive topic...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 05, 2020, 05:19:57 PM
I am glad that we can have this conversation 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 05, 2020, 05:29:52 PM
In theory I'm getting a beef rib for lunch tomorrow. Though a work obligation might force me to send a friend to pick it up.

Let us pray that doesn't happen.
:D we'll navigate Covid but supplication will be needed there
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 05, 2020, 05:33:12 PM
The same experience. Loved 60 minutes in the 70s into the 80s and then I found out about how they rigged and edited
They use to blow the whistle on Corporate now they work for them :sign0065:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2020, 05:33:57 PM
:D we'll navigate Covid but supplication will be needed there
(https://i.imgur.com/wmWY2S1.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 05, 2020, 07:31:37 PM
Well Played - gotta admit that looks......on a Friday Night
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2020, 07:42:36 PM
Well Played - gotta admit that looks......on a Friday Night
Are you into sours? Because that one is a sour...

Their sours are world-class, but I know tons of beer drinkers that won't touch a sour with a 10 foot straw.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 05, 2020, 07:57:30 PM
FYI I was thinking more about it... And when someone was asked for a concrete policy change to help improve this situation...

It's simple--fix the qualified immunity problem.

Today it's possible to sue the police department in civil court for excessive force / brutality / wrongful death. But due to qualified immunity--and in particular the way qualified immunity is adjudicated--it is NEARLY impossible to sue the individual offending officer in civil court and have any chance of success.

So while cities may occasionally feel the pain in their pocketbooks due to losing a lawsuit (and it's just taxpayer dollars anyway), the individual officers are mostly shielded from civil liability.

End that shield.

Here's how I see it playing out:


  • If you end that shield, and individual officers are subject to civil liability, it will only take a few examples of officers losing their financial worlds before an insurance system--similar to medical malpractice insurance--pops up to shield them.
  • The police malpractice insurance industry, obviously, will need to have ways to accurately risk-price individual officers. Much like getting auto insurance, your risk is mainly tied to your own actions, and there are clear red flags that suggest you're a higher risk (in auto insurance, regularly getting speeding tickets or causing accidents, for one).
  • Those red flags might be things like citizen complaints against cops, IA investigations, etc. Some cops [maybe one Derek Chauvin] may find themselves eventually priced out of policing due to their risk profile being so bad that they can't afford the insurance. Want to weed out the bad apples? They'll price themselves out.
  • Officers could possibly qualify for premium reductions by doing things like regularly taking alternative escalation training, community sensitivity courses, etc. You can find ways to reinforce positive behavior and make it in officers' financial interests to do so.


This uses market forces to incentivize the behavior to end. I've solved it for you.

You're welcome.
FYI I was thinking more about it... And when someone was asked for a concrete policy change to help improve this situation...

It's simple--fix the qualified immunity problem.

Today it's possible to sue the police department in civil court for excessive force / brutality / wrongful death. But due to qualified immunity--and in particular the way qualified immunity is adjudicated--it is NEARLY impossible to sue the individual offending officer in civil court and have any chance of success.

So while cities may occasionally feel the pain in their pocketbooks due to losing a lawsuit (and it's just taxpayer dollars anyway), the individual officers are mostly shielded from civil liability.

End that shield.

Here's how I see it playing out:


  • If you end that shield, and individual officers are subject to civil liability, it will only take a few examples of officers losing their financial worlds before an insurance system--similar to medical malpractice insurance--pops up to shield them.
  • The police malpractice insurance industry, obviously, will need to have ways to accurately risk-price individual officers. Much like getting auto insurance, your risk is mainly tied to your own actions, and there are clear red flags that suggest you're a higher risk (in auto insurance, regularly getting speeding tickets or causing accidents, for one).
  • Those red flags might be things like citizen complaints against cops, IA investigations, etc. Some cops [maybe one Derek Chauvin] may find themselves eventually priced out of policing due to their risk profile being so bad that they can't afford the insurance. Want to weed out the bad apples? They'll price themselves out.
  • Officers could possibly qualify for premium reductions by doing things like regularly taking alternative escalation training, community sensitivity courses, etc. You can find ways to reinforce positive behavior and make it in officers' financial interests to do so.


This uses market forces to incentivize the behavior to end. I've solved it for you.

You're welcome.
I would guess the insurance company would require body cameras such as insurance company for trucking companies encourage dash cams
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Benthere2 on June 05, 2020, 10:36:36 PM
anyone hearing anything out of Iowa about racial tension in the the City and Players?  Former players I guess are lighting up twitter ( I dont have an twitter account to verify)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 05, 2020, 11:13:16 PM
Are you into sours? Because that one is a sour...

Their sours are world-class, but I know tons of beer drinkers that won't touch a sour with a 10 foot straw.
I like sours quite a bit, was first introduced to them in Belgium 25 years ago.  But even the Belgians drink them in small quantities, a little goes a long way.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 06, 2020, 12:36:03 AM
An unfortunate incident in Buffalo from The Bulwark.

1. The Three Levels of Police Corruption

It's Friday so we're supposed to talk about happy things.

Sorry in advance.

I'd like you to watch this video. It's from an incident in Buffalo yesterday and it's very short.


Quote
WBFO
@WBFO

Jun 4

Just about an hour ago, police officers shove man in Niagara Square to the ground.

(VIDEO CLIP) (https://twitter.com/i/status/1268712530358292484)

Video from: @MikeDesmondWBFO

Now take a breath look at this press statement from the Buffalo Police Department about the incident:

"[A] 5th person was arrested during a skirmish with other protestors and also charged with disorderly conduct. During that skirmish involving protestors, one person was injured when he tripped & fell."

What we have here is a perfect distillation of the three levels of corruption that exist in law enforcement.

The first is the violence of the police themselves. In this incident they are in total control of the situation. I can count 28 law enforcement officers, all of them wearing armor of some sort and carrying weapons.

They are approached by an unarmed 75-year-old man. It is unreasonable for any of the officers in this situation to have felt as though they were in clear and present danger. But if they had felt threatened, they could have restrained him.

Instead, they assault him, shoving him backward violently. Go back and watch the video again. Listen to the sound the man's head makes at the 0:06 mark when it hits the ground. Look at the blood coming out of his ear. Watch how motionless his body is.

At best, this is a terrible accident by law enforcement officers who are not competent at their jobs. At worst, it is criminal assault.

The second level of corruption comes in the reaction of the officers who did not shove the old man. None of them rush to his side. None of them confront the perpetrators of the assault.

Instead, the first two actions we see from the other police are these:

(a) One of the officers who pushed the man seems surprised that he fell and makes a move to check on him. The officer behind him directs him to keep moving and leave the man alone.

(b) Other officers immediately move to clear witnesses out of the area. There appear to be two civilian witnesses who try to tell the police that the man on the ground is bleeding. One of the other officers says, "Grab these two guys right now."

These two witnesses put their hands in the air and offer no resistance. We see one of them handcuffed.

Another officer goes after the credentialed media present and orders them to leave the scene.

What you're seeing here is, in the immediate aftermath of police misconduct, a large number of officers working in a coordinated manner to cover it up and witnesses to the misconduct being detained for no discernible reason.

Which brings us to the third level of corruption: The press release.

With the benefit of time to react, the Buffalo police department portrayed this assault as a mere accident resulting from a "skirmish" in which a civilian "tripped & fell."

This is a two-part outright lie being fed to the public the police department is supposed to serve.

2. Insidious

This may sound strange, but I view the actual assault on the old man as the least worrisome of those three corruptions.

Police are human. They will make bad decisions sometimes even if they are good cops. You can understand how a bad decision gets made in snap-encounters.

Do I think these police should be prosecuted? Yes.

Do I think that, regardless of the outcome of criminal prosecution, they should ever be allowed to put on the uniform again? Absolutely not.

However, I am open to the possibility that these are good men who made a terrible mistake and simply lack the faculties and temperament to be professional law enforcement officers.

But what about the police around them who see what has happened and do nothing?

These officers are witness to an assault that they were not a part of. They have no "heat of the moment" excuse. And their first move is not to help the citizen they have sworn an oath to protect, but to cover up for colleagues who have just committed what may be a criminal offense.

It is hard to view these officers as anything but fully corrupt. Every one of them should lose their badge.

The deepest corruption, though, is the press release.

Because this is not the act of a single person operating under constraints of time and space. It's the product of an organization.

That means multiple sets of eyes and multiple lies. It means people had the luxury of time to deliberate before acting and their choice was to deceive the public.

When you find a bad cop, it means that he can't be trusted.

When you see a gaggle of cops covering for a bad cop, it means the culture is corrupt.

When you read a press release issued by the department claiming that a man who was assaulted by cops "tripped & fell" as a result of a "skirmish," it tells you that the entire institution is rotten.

Thank God the local NPR station caught this assault on tape. Had they not, then the police department's lie would have been the official truth.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 06, 2020, 01:28:20 AM
Are you into sours? Because that one is a sour...

Their sours are world-class, but I know tons of beer drinkers that won't touch a sour with a 10 foot straw.
Not sure is that sort of Like a Gose?That was different like spoiled then salted
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 06, 2020, 01:37:14 AM
Are you into sours? Because that one is a sour...

Their sours are world-class, but I know tons of beer drinkers that won't touch a sour with a 10 foot straw.
Who's drinking beer with a straw? :86:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 06, 2020, 01:44:18 AM
We need to develop trust. Without that, there will be nothing. And trust works both ways.
Trust does work both ways, but we have unequal parties here.
One group is the masses.  You can be more specific than that, but whatever the subset, it's still millions of people.  Random-ass people of all types, even within tiny subgroups.

The other group chose a profession to protect and serve.  They get paid to do so.  They sort of forfeit their anonymity and low expectations by choosing their career.  

And this designation of each group has more to do with the low expectations I have of "the masses" than of being especially rough on police.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 06, 2020, 08:43:47 AM
anyone hearing anything out of Iowa about racial tension in the the City and Players?  Former players I guess are lighting up twitter ( I dont have an twitter account to verify)
I have not heard anything about this.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 06, 2020, 08:44:54 AM
Trust does work both ways, but we have unequal parties here.
One group is the masses.  You can be more specific than that, but whatever the subset, it's still millions of people.  Random-ass people of all types, even within tiny subgroups.

The other group chose a profession to protect and serve.  They get paid to do so.  They sort of forfeit their anonymity and low expectations by choosing their career. 

And this designation of each group has more to do with the low expectations I have of "the masses" than of being especially rough on police. 
Woosh.

I mean trust between black people, white people and brown people - in general.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 06, 2020, 08:49:43 AM
https://www.ajc.com/sports/college/uga-plans-for-football-usual-this-fall/8A7qHAk9bwoMql89MDkAXI/ (https://www.ajc.com/sports/college/uga-plans-for-football-usual-this-fall/8A7qHAk9bwoMql89MDkAXI/)

UGA making noises about playing games as usual, more or less, maybe, depending of course ...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 06, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
https://www.ajc.com/sports/college/uga-plans-for-football-usual-this-fall/8A7qHAk9bwoMql89MDkAXI/ (https://www.ajc.com/sports/college/uga-plans-for-football-usual-this-fall/8A7qHAk9bwoMql89MDkAXI/)

UGA making noises about playing games as usual, more or less, maybe, depending of course ...
if we can get 100,000 people in the street 10 days in a row then we can also play football
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 06, 2020, 09:08:36 AM
if we can get 100,000 people in the street 10 days in a row then we can also play football
Yup
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 06, 2020, 09:22:48 AM
too logical
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 06, 2020, 09:26:36 AM
Former Iowa offensive lineman James Daniels Tweeted Friday night that there are racial disparities within the Iowa football program that must be addressed.

“There are too many racial disparities in the Iowa football program,” Daniels Tweeted. “Black players have been treated unfairly for far too long.”





https://dailyiowan.com/2020/06/05/former-hawkeye-james-daniels-calls-out-racial-disparities-within-iowa-football-program/ (https://dailyiowan.com/2020/06/05/former-hawkeye-james-daniels-calls-out-racial-disparities-within-iowa-football-program/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 06, 2020, 09:42:18 AM
Carbonic maceration is without a doubt one of the cooler phrases in winemaking. It sounds like the name of an epic electronic band or the title of a great sci-fi sequel.

In reality, the term refers to a particular style of fermentation at the winery. Grapes ferment while fully intact and still in their skins, creating an unctuous wine with a low tannin count. These wines are juicy and ready to drink pretty much right when they’re bottled, unlike more conventionally produced wines which require more time to even out.


Carbon dioxide persuades the grapes to ferment and is introduced to tanks and bins to create an anaerobic climate. Whereas more traditional winemaking fermentation banks on yeast and its impact on pressed juice, this approach is full of countless mini-fermentations. Inside every grape, a tiny fermentation is sparked by CO2. Meanwhile, the weight of the fruit naturally presses some of the lower layers of clusters, creating some free run juice (part of the saignée approach).

https://www.themanual.com/food-and-drink/what-is-carbonic-maceration-wine-fermentation/ (https://www.themanual.com/food-and-drink/what-is-carbonic-maceration-wine-fermentation/)

something for Cincy
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 06, 2020, 10:09:32 AM
Yeah, somewhat famed for use in Beaujolais, which incidentally is a very under appreciated wine type (for obvious reasons).  The wine lists at restaurants in Lyon are probably 60% Beaujolais for good reason.  Lyon has some excellent food.

I recall helping out at my bid's wine shop one Saturday when a lady came in asking for Zinfandel and was astonished to discover it was red.  She walked out in a huff.  I sent her to Kroger.  

I went through a zinfandel phase a couple decades ago, I tend not to buy them any more.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 06, 2020, 10:36:41 AM
for the obvious reason that no one can spell it?

headed to the pub for a frosty schooner of swill, then to the golf course for Bud in the can

FORE!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 06, 2020, 10:52:07 AM
So the Park Police say they didn't use "tear gas" ... They used pepper balls which spray a powder that irritates the eyes and cause tears.

Thanks for the clarification. 

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/6/5/21281604/lafayette-square-white-house-tear-gas-protest
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 06, 2020, 11:09:07 AM
So the Park Police say they didn't use "tear gas" ... They used pepper balls which spray a powder that irritates the eyes and cause tears.

Thanks for the clarification.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/6/5/21281604/lafayette-square-white-house-tear-gas-protest
no one cares
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 06, 2020, 11:12:14 AM
Buffalo mayor says the 75 year old man was asking for it. He will not be firing the police Officers who shoved him to the ground and cracked his head open.

These local politicians are gutless dweebs who are afraid of losing police union support come election time.


https://apple.news/Al3WqLZN_QtS9aEyOQsSdXg
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 06, 2020, 11:14:46 AM
So the Park Police say they didn't use "tear gas" ... They used pepper balls which spray a powder that irritates the eyes and cause tears.

Thanks for the clarification.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/6/5/21281604/lafayette-square-white-house-tear-gas-protest
Vox is probably the biggest garbage rag there is next to Buzzfeed. 

CNN/MSNBC/Fox are actually better than those two sites. Which should tell you just how bad they are. I’m surprised Vox and Buzzfeed are even still in business. My guess is both will go under soon.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 06, 2020, 12:44:22 PM
There are quite a few on line things like Vox and Salon and Bretsomething on the right.  I almost never look at them.

I also think any of them can have a well researched well written article.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 06, 2020, 01:58:41 PM
no one cares
Someone seeming did. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 06, 2020, 02:49:27 PM
If Rasmussen is anywhere close to accurate the Dems have a tough road ahead
https://thehayride.com/2020/06/rasmussen-trump-approval-rating-among-black-voters-hits-all-time-high/ (https://thehayride.com/2020/06/rasmussen-trump-approval-rating-among-black-voters-hits-all-time-high/)


and yes I realize Rasmussen leans right but he was ranked 2nd most accurate predicting the 2016 election results
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 06, 2020, 02:58:07 PM
no one cares
You'd care if you were there.  Are you capable of empathy?  Putting yourself in someone else's shoes? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 06, 2020, 03:03:45 PM
You'd care if you were there.  Are you capable of empathy?  Putting yourself in someone else's shoes?
I care about police misconduct but I dont care whether or not tear gas was used the other night

OAM youre misjudging me 

just take a deep breath and calm down
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 06, 2020, 03:09:43 PM
Vox is probably the biggest garbage rag there is next to Buzzfeed.

CNN/MSNBC/Fox are actually better than those two sites. Which should tell you just how bad they are. I’m surprised Vox and Buzzfeed are even still in business. My guess is both will go under soon.
Only reason I posted is that we discussed the dispute between whether they used tear gas or not.

Along with incredulous people asking 'do you believe the head of the Park Police, or idiot reporters?'

It seems that the Park Police response was "well tear gas, technically, is a term used to refer to CS and CN, and we didn't use either, so we can say we didn't use tear gas". But on the other hand, chemical irritants that cause eye tearing were used. They just weren't CS or CN. To people in that crowd, the combination of smoke grenades and chemical irritants would make many think they were being hit with tear gas. 

Now the Park Police has to walk it back because their omission of what they DID use was, to put it mildly, deceptive.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 06, 2020, 03:15:12 PM
Only reason I posted is that we discussed the dispute between whether they used tear gas or not.

Along with incredulous people asking 'do you believe the head of the Park Police, or idiot reporters?'

It seems that the Park Police response was "well tear gas, technically, is a term used to refer to CS and CN, and we didn't use either, so we can say we didn't use tear gas". But on the other hand, chemical irritants that cause eye tearing were used. They just weren't CS or CN. To people in that crowd, the combination of smoke grenades and chemical irritants would make many think they were being hit with tear gas.

Now the Park Police has to walk it back because their omission of what they DID use was, to put it mildly, deceptive.
but my point is that this is a little fly spec of the whole story
this is something media has way over blown to try to dig at Trump
they had burned the church and our Pres was making a "were still here" gesture
the protesters were asked repeatedly to move back and they refused

how they moved the crowd really is not of importance as long as no one was harmed which they werent
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 06, 2020, 03:16:59 PM
I just bought some Titos and was glad to see they assured me it is gluten free, with a prominent cardboard label on the neck.

Great.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 06, 2020, 03:51:58 PM
but my point is that this is a little fly spec of the whole story
this is something media has way over blown to try to dig at Trump
they had burned the church and our Pres was making a "were still here" gesture
the protesters were asked repeatedly to move back and they refused

how they moved the crowd really is not of importance as long as no one was harmed which they werent
BTW the church had been burned the previous day; not the same protesters. All indication was that these were peaceful protesters. 

My point of this was that any potential violence (physical or chemical) that was endured by those protesters was, for this POTUS, a feature, not a bug. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 06, 2020, 04:05:14 PM
BTW the church had been burned the previous day; not the same protesters. All indication was that these were peaceful protesters.

My point of this was that any potential violence (physical or chemical) that was endured by those protesters was, for this POTUS, a feature, not a bug.
I know the church was burned the previous day and nobody knows how many of the protesters were the same but that doesnt matter

if POTUS wanted to go over to the church then hes should be free to do so

his purpose was to show America that despite all the violence taking place the spirit of America was still very much alive

If Obama had done this he would have been portrayed as a saint by the media

as Ive said previously the more the left trys to separate Trump from his base the strong his base becomes and this is no different

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 06, 2020, 04:13:35 PM
I know the church was burned the previous day and nobody knows how many of the protesters were the same but that doesnt matter

if POTUS wanted to go over to the church then hes should be free to do so

his purpose was to show America that despite all the violence taking place the spirit of America was still very much alive

If Obama had done this he would have been portrayed as a saint by the media

as Ive said previously the more the left trys to separate Trump from his base the strong his base becomes and this is no different


This is true IMO ( about his base).  I also think it’s a big mistake to think recent events are working against him with African Americans. multiple polls I have seen would say otherwise. 
one reason might be that like white peoples- African Americans favor law and order of chaos. another theory I have seen tossed about, and have seen some black people comment on- - they can see the media’s strong and obvious anti POTUS bias - so they see an underdog that fights back/ something they can relate to. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: WhiskeyM on June 06, 2020, 05:11:39 PM
It seems that the Park Police response was "well tear gas, technically, is a term used to refer to CS and CN, and we didn't use either, so we can say we didn't use tear gas". But on the other hand, chemical irritants that cause eye tearing were used. They just weren't CS or CN. To people in that crowd, the combination of smoke grenades and chemical irritants would make many think they were being hit with tear gas.

Now the Park Police has to walk it back because their omission of what they DID use was, to put it mildly, deceptive.

It can only be called tear gas if it comes from the Gaseux Region of France.

Otherwise it's just Sparkling Mass Repression at the Hands of the Police.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 06, 2020, 05:29:28 PM
It can only be called tear gas if it comes from the Gaseux Region of France.

Otherwise it's just Sparkling Mass Repression at the Hands of the Police.
😂😂😂.   Post of the month!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 06, 2020, 05:58:29 PM
There are three, I think, sparkling wines from CA that can have Champagne on the label, usually preceded by California.

They were grandfathered into the agreement.

I can remember when young women would sash shay into a bar and order "House Chablis".  I wonder how the term "Sash shay" came about.

OK, firstly I misspelled it rather badly, and I should have know it is from the French:

to make a chassé


2a: WALK (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/walk), GLIDE (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/glide), GO (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/go)
b: to strut or move about in an ostentatious or conspicuous manner
c: to proceed or move in a diagonal or sideways manner


This is why French is great, we say "chase", meh, and they say "Chasse'", much more elegante.  And a Chasseur as CWSooner knows is usually a light cavalryman intended to chase defeated enemy.  And as we all know, cheval is French for horse and a chavelier, like Mo, is a knight, or simply a person who rides a horse. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 06, 2020, 06:04:27 PM
When one is curious, one can learn all sorts of trivia.

https://vinepair.com/wine-blog/loophole-california-champagne-legal/ (https://vinepair.com/wine-blog/loophole-california-champagne-legal/)

We have stayed a couple of times at the hotel in Versailles where all this was hammered out, the Trianon Palace it's called, it's actually part of the Hilton network oddly enough.  I recall pulling up behind a Bugatti and a Rolls in my rented Peugot ...  I would like to do that in a 'Vette some time.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 06, 2020, 06:49:50 PM

they had burned the church and our Pres was making a "were still here" gesture

While it was burned, saying "they had burned the church" seems like it removes some of the vital context. Not that a basement fire that was quickly put out is a positive, but it wasn't exactly catastrophe. 

Oh, and unfortunately the priests were not still there. While the CIC has the right to go where he wants, that ran over a bit on clergy who were gassed out.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 06, 2020, 07:29:59 PM
While it was burned, saying "they had burned the church" seems like it removes some of the vital context. Not that a basement fire that was quickly put out is a positive, but it wasn't exactly catastrophe.

Oh, and unfortunately the priests were not still there. While the CIC has the right to go where he wants, that ran over a bit on clergy who were gassed out. 
If you add some diversity to your reading, you will find plenty of clergy that applauded, and criticized the archbishop for his usual liberal stance.
i can’t prove this, but I have a high level of confidence that millions of spiritual people applauded it.  Like everything else these days, it depends which side you are on.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 06, 2020, 08:02:04 PM
Also, the peaceful protester that organized today’s massive protest, and then went live on camera and threatened to burn Down the Diamond District if the mayor didn’t capitulate to their demands, has now been arrested on terroris charges.

Fairly confident many here won’t see that story.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 06, 2020, 09:52:25 PM
If you add some diversity to your reading, you will find plenty of clergy that applauded, and criticized the archbishop for his usual liberal stance.
i can’t prove this, but I have a high level of confidence that millions of spiritual people applauded it.  Like everything else these days, it depends which side you are on.
Ahhh, the beauty of the media. Someone somewhere will always say both sides of things. That's the joy of having more than a few high-traction conservative outlets, including far and away the most watched one on cable. 

And shoot, I'm sure a great many of those spiritual people would even applaud if he violated each of the 10 commandments in front of them. As you said, sides and such. That reminded me about the base talk earlier. The point someone made was "doing X drives the CIC and his base closer." Is there some act that drives them apart? It doesn't seem like there is. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 06, 2020, 10:05:40 PM
Also, the peaceful protester that organized today’s massive protest, and then went live on camera and threatened to burn Down the Diamond District if the mayor didn’t capitulate to their demands, has now been arrested on terroris charges.

Fairly confident many here won’t see that story.

While what he said was pretty deplorable, it seems likely it was probably constitutionally protected speech, grotesque as it is.

Suppose we'll have to see if it sticks. Might be legit. Might be an easy ground to arrest someone for a nice headline. Might get pled down since the person in question doesn't exactly seem like much of an organizer. Just looks like a crazy person they put on TV. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 06, 2020, 10:07:40 PM
Ahhh, the beauty of the media. Someone somewhere will always say both sides of things. That's the joy of having more than a few high-traction conservative outlets, including far and away the most watched one on cable.

And shoot, I'm sure a great many of those spiritual people would even applaud if he violated each of the 10 commandments in front of them. As you said, sides and such. That reminded me about the base talk earlier. The point someone made was "doing X drives the CIC and his base closer." Is there some act that drives them apart? It doesn't seem like there is.
this is something youd think the media and the left would learn but they never do they keep coming back and saying please sir may I have another and Trump zings them again over and over

the dems have moved so far left that its hard to even recognize the democratic party anymore

its going to be interesting to see if Biden will agree that the police should be defunded
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 06, 2020, 10:13:26 PM
this is something youd think the media and the left would learn but they never do they keep coming back and saying please sir may I have another and Trump zings them again over and over

the dems have moved so far left that its hard to even recognize the democratic party anymore

its going to be interesting to see if Biden will agree that the police should be defunded
This doesn't really answer the question. 

Do we think there's actually an act that would drive his base from him? Seems like the answer is no. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 06, 2020, 10:22:38 PM
While what he said was pretty deplorable, it seems likely it was probably constitutionally protected speech, grotesque as it is.

Suppose we'll have to see if it sticks. Might be legit. Might be an easy ground to arrest someone for a nice headline. Might get pled down since the person in question doesn't exactly seem like much of an organizer. Just looks like a crazy person they put on TV.
For it to be considered inciting a riot the words have to be explicit and detailed

if it is a vague threat then its protected

so the question is was this guys threat explicit or was it vague

as an example if I tell a crowd that certain people better watch out or the might be harmed thats vague

but if I said instead lets go to this persons house and burn it down that is not protected speech
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 06, 2020, 10:25:43 PM
One thing I've finally figured out is this while idea of "moving" left or right is compete crap. You have your collection of beliefs and have to choose from the party most aligned with your those beliefs. But there is a reason "far left" Bernie Sanders attracts support from "far right" voters.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 06, 2020, 10:29:31 PM
This doesn't really answer the question.

Do we think there's actually an act that would drive his base from him? Seems like the answer is no.
everybody has a limit as to what they will accept and still vote for someone

so far we know a lot of things that dont cross his bases limit

that hes been accused of

its kind of like Edison's search for the right filament for a light bulb

and the left is still searching

the problem the left has is that Trump's base knows what they will get if hes not elected

thats powerful mojo
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 06, 2020, 10:29:36 PM
What sort of far right voter supports Bernie Sanders?  And why?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 06, 2020, 10:32:26 PM
One thing I've finally figured out is this while idea of "moving" left or right is compete crap. You have your collection of beliefs and have to choose from the party most aligned with your those beliefs. But there is a reason "far left" Bernie Sanders attracts support from "far right" voters.
thats a new one for me I didnt realize he did unless far right voters is another way of saying socialists
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 06, 2020, 10:37:11 PM
everybody has a limit as to what they will accept and still vote for someone

so far we know a lot of things that dont cross his bases limit

that hes been accused of

its kind of like Edison's search for the right filament for a light bulb

and the left is still searching

the problem the left has is that Trump's base knows what they will get if hes not elected

thats powerful mojo
You're seemingly incapable of just addressing the one topic - you oddly have to bring everything back to "the left" and how silly they are.

You should work for a certain news channel.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 06, 2020, 10:43:03 PM
What sort of far right voter supports Bernie Sanders?  And why?
The sort that thinks Medicare for all is good because it takes their health care away from corporate interests
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 06, 2020, 11:15:40 PM
Ahhh, the beauty of the media. Someone somewhere will always say both sides of things. That's the joy of having more than a few high-traction conservative outlets, including far and away the most watched one on cable.

And shoot, I'm sure a great many of those spiritual people would even applaud if he violated each of the 10 commandments in front of them. As you said, sides and such. That reminded me about the base talk earlier. The point someone made was "doing X drives the CIC and his base closer." Is there some act that drives them apart? It doesn't seem like there is.
Kind of a weird take.  Sympathy for the guy making the threats apparently.  

it’s hard to converse with you, when you say things like “ broke Ten Commandments” obviously inferring he is bad, or broke even one.
of all people, I thought you could take a higher level balanced view.  

what you don’t understand is there is not a right or wrong to this, just two different views.  My point has been- all along- the overwhelming number of microphones are in the hands of media and celebs, but that is not necessarily a majority.
to take a guess at your question, not standing up against the over the top PC crowd, and not doing things like going to that church.  That might do it.

his fans obviously put up with what nearly everyone agrees with his poor communication style, abrasiveness, etc.
but as longhorn pointed out, what they see on the other side is abhorrent to their very core.   Things that they can’t live with, like super late term abortions, letting prisoners out of jail, harboring felons because they are also illegal immigrants, defunding the police, open borders, taking away their right to bear arms ( which will die down hard for a long time now given what is on our tv screens).  All kinds of things that various degrees on the left are pushing.  They hear the words from certain females in Congress that they feel are as anti American as anything they have ever heard.  They see the POTUS as the one person that can stop all of that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 06, 2020, 11:22:20 PM
Also, let me add, I am pretty much a live and let live kind of guy.  I don’t really get too worked up over peoples opinions, like kneeling during the anthem.  So what.  

I only get worked up when I see things like that cop murdering that poor guy.  I have a hard time with anyone who could defend that, or violence of any kind.  

So, when I guy goes on tv and seriously threatens to light a huge section of New York on fire, I do have a problem with that opinion.  And anyone who would defend it.

Responding to that buy defending the guy is tantamount to agreeing with him.  And just being honest with you, that makes me sick.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 06, 2020, 11:58:08 PM
What sort of far right voter supports Bernie Sanders?  And why?
The kind of far right voter who has watched neo-liberal and neo-con policies fail this country for 5+ decades, and who have seen his/her well-paying manufacturing job get shipped over-seas or their high-paying mining job evaporate and who can't afford his/her prescription drugs or healthcare- or the far right voter who has had do declare bankruptcy due to medical bills.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 07, 2020, 12:20:13 AM
Kind of a weird take.  Sympathy for the guy making the threats apparently. 

it’s hard to converse with you, when you say things like “ broke Ten Commandments” obviously inferring he is bad, or broke even one.
of all people, I thought you could take a higher level balanced view. 

what you don’t understand is there is not a right or wrong to this, just two different views.  My point has been- all along- the overwhelming number of microphones are in the hands of media and celebs, but that is not necessarily a majority.
to take a guess at your question, not standing up against the over the top PC crowd, and not doing things like going to that church.  That might do it.
The first part refers to the crazy man arrested? That's not really sympathy, just pointing out we're free to do unsympathetic things. 

I'm not sure how you got that I said he broke the commandments. I said that there are spiritual people who back him who I think would not let him doing things against their faith stand in the way of their support. (we could get into a discussion about who broke which commandments, but that seems a less valuable road).

I think the idea of "not necessarily a majority," is actually pretty interesting. People by and large often look to believe they are part of a subtle majority that is also to a degree put upon (maybe persecuted, but that word seems too strong) but the minority. Where you see a minority view expressed by some media and celebs, the other side most likely sees some other groups with their microphones spreading some other message. And we'll end up with a mess of noise and nonsense for months and at the end, a majority will put its votes in and more noise will spring forth. I can't put a finger on how that will fall. I'd be unsurprised if that "media"/celeb view turns out to belong to the minority. And I wouldn't be wholly surprised if traditional political gravity fell into place. We'll just have to see.

(That last part does make sense. Basically, if the man stops doing transgressive things, that could take wind from his sails. So he'll continue to do that, much to the pearl clutching of some sectors. And eventually we'll see if it helps or hurts him)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 07, 2020, 12:55:49 AM
You're seemingly incapable of just addressing the one topic - you oddly have to bring everything back to "the left" and how silly they are.

You should work for a certain news channel.
why I do OAM 

Im in an under cover assignment
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 07, 2020, 01:07:45 AM
If Rasmussen is anywhere close to accurate the Dems have a tough road ahead
https://thehayride.com/2020/06/rasmussen-trump-approval-rating-among-black-voters-hits-all-time-high/ (https://thehayride.com/2020/06/rasmussen-trump-approval-rating-among-black-voters-hits-all-time-high/)


and yes I realize Rasmussen leans right but he was ranked 2nd most accurate predicting the 2016 election results
If that is valid, 320, I imagine that it's because a whole lot of black voters don't like looters and organized insurgent groups discrediting their protest movement.  And the POTUS has somehow convinced a lot of people that he's doing something effective to stop it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 07, 2020, 01:17:18 AM
There are three, I think, sparkling wines from CA that can have Champagne on the label, usually preceded by California.

They were grandfathered into the agreement.

I can remember when young women would sash shay into a bar and order "House Chablis".  I wonder how the term "Sash shay" came about.

OK, firstly I misspelled it rather badly, and I should have know it is from the French:

to make a chassé


2a: WALK (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/walk), GLIDE (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/glide), GO (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/go)
b: to strut or move about in an ostentatious or conspicuous manner
c: to proceed or move in a diagonal or sideways manner


This is why French is great, we say "chase", meh, and they say "Chasse'", much more elegante.  And a Chasseur as CWSooner knows is usually a light cavalryman intended to chase defeated enemy.  And as we all know, cheval is French for horse and a chavelier, like Mo, is a knight, or simply a person who rides a horse.
All those "chev-" terms come from the Latin "caballus," horse.  In Spanish, it's "caballo," and a gentleman is a "caballero," originally for a knight.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 07, 2020, 01:30:24 AM
This doesn't really answer the question.

Do we think there's actually an act that would drive his base from him? Seems like the answer is no.
I think the answer is that there is not.
Everyone he hires is the greatest that there has ever been.  Then when he fires the same people, or they quit, they are the worst ever.  Unless they go to prison, in which case they were the victims of an FBI/CIA/Deep State/Bilderbergers/Rothschilds/Knights Templar conspiracy to make them admit their illegal act by entrapping them, so they will get pardons.  Soldiers who commit war crimes by killing civilians or enemy captives are heroes who get pardoned by the POTUS after being convicted at court-martial.  Soldiers who do their duty, like reminding their subordinates that their oath was to support and defend the Constitution, not the President, are loser-scum who won't have their jobs much longer.
All because the media reports on these actions negatively.  The more media criticism, the more that the POTUS's supporters support him.
It's like the story of the Emperor's New Clothes.  Once you're in, you can't ever admit that you were wrong from the start.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 07, 2020, 02:11:43 AM
Unless they go to prison, in which case they were the victims of an FBI/CIA/Deep State
There's no conspiracy. It's out in the open. The security state/military industrial complex- whatever you want to call it- tried to bring the guy down on some obviously phony BS Russian propaganda. I mean anyone with half a brain saw right through it instantly. It was the greatest disinformation/propaganda campaign witnessed since...wait for it.....the Iraq war. And the useless, feckless, worthless mainstream media aided them in this endeavor, just as they always do.

And why the hell are former top CIA/NSA/FBI officials being hired by "news" agencies like CNN/MSNBC and paid several hundreds of thousands of dollars to appear on tv and being allowed to push propaganda completely unchecked and with zero push-back by the "news" anchors? How does this not make people outraged?

The very top levels of the FBI/CIA absolutely tried to bring down an incoming administration on completely bogus charges and using the kind of disinformation smear tactics you'd expect them to use on foreign 3rd world governments they want to overthrow. An un-elected bureaucracy that is suppose to report to the top elected official we have in this country, tried to bring that top official down. If that doesn't terrify the living shit out of everyone in this country, there's something wrong with the people in this country.

Let me guess though, FBI/CIA just a bunch of upstanding dudes? Lol. Yeah and Jeffrey Epstein totally killed himself too. Just kidding. He didn't.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 07, 2020, 03:09:56 AM
but as longhorn pointed out, what they see on the other side is abhorrent to their very core.  Things that they can’t live with, like super late term abortions, letting prisoners out of jail, harboring felons because they are also illegal immigrants, defunding the police, open borders, taking away their right to bear arms ( which will die down hard for a long time now given what is on our tv screens).  All kinds of things that various degrees on the left are pushing.  They hear the words from certain females in Congress that they feel are as anti American as anything they have ever heard.  They see the POTUS as the one person that can stop all of that.
Literally none of these is anything a non-radical liberal desires.  Zero.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 07, 2020, 07:47:19 AM
Literally none of these is anything a non-radical liberal desires.  Zero.
Wanna bet?

I can simply point to parts of my family. Literally. 

So, zot Zero. Far from it.

You need to be more careful with your absolute statements.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 08:00:23 AM
You need to be more careful with your absolute statements.
Absolutely, maybe sort of kinda at times perhaps.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 07, 2020, 08:24:20 AM
I think this is mostly correct ( it is far from zero) in that these things don't represent the middle to mostly left.

just like White supremacy doesn’t represent the middle to mostly right, but it is often portrayed that way. 


 It reminds me of a great, memorable conversation I had with my daughter after POTUS was elected.  She is like her father, a fiercely independent thinker, and like her father, pro humanity. Her mother and I have worked hard to teach our kids this: try to make the world a better place, and try to leave everything you do a better situation.

She had recently graduated from Michigan, and certainly had her eyes opened to more liberal thinking ( a good thing IMO) than she was exposed to beforehand.  She openly asked me who I would be voting for, and I was honest in embarrassingly admitting I wasn’t voting for the first time ever, and the reasons why.  She understood.

Fast forward to after results were in for a few weeks.  She was very worried about the radical right.  After we talked for a while, she said something that stuck with me because I learned from it- she said it is not that I think he thinks this way dad, but I am worried him winning will empower those on the far right. 

We had a complete agreement that just about everyone we know was not on the far edges in either direction, but closer to the middle and much more able to coexist And compromise. And we agreed that so many influencers today, the people with the microphones, are voices much closer to the radical edges, and because of that a lot of those middle people were getting overly angry and aggressive.

That is pretty much what I see in our country today. 847badge kind of nailed it several pages back. Trust he called it. The biggest lesson my folks taught me was tolerance.  To be tolerant of other opinions. Because I feel so much noise coming from the unreasonable edges, it seems we have gotten to the place where the reasonable voices closer to the middle are no longer heard, and people are left feeling like they have to pick a side on one of the edges.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 07, 2020, 08:27:55 AM
Literally none of these is anything a non-radical liberal desires.  Zero.
thats probably true OAM but the fear the right has is that non-radical liberals wont have much of a say should Trump not get reelected

they are as rare as unicorns
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 08:32:32 AM
The sort that thinks Medicare for all is good because it takes their health care away from corporate interests

I don't see many far right voters in favor of that at all.  No doubt there are a few.

I'm not talking about voters on the Right who like Fox News and Trump etc., I included the term "far".  That means something rather different.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 07, 2020, 08:43:19 AM
David Duke endorsed Tulsi Gabbard - go far right enough and you get into the conspiracies that jews control all the banks and corporations, so anti-corporate messaging gets pretty attractive.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 07, 2020, 08:45:20 AM
David Duke endorsed Tulsi Gabbard - go far right enough and you get into the conspiracies that jews control all the banks and corporations, so anti-corporate messaging gets pretty attractive.
My point - from a few posts back- proven in living color. 

voices from and about the far political edges.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 08:51:23 AM
OK, he supported Gabbard, but not Sanders ....

I suppose Duke is one example of a far right type.  He's probably more correctly termed a white supremacist anti-Semite of course.  That alone doesn't make him "far right", depending on how one views the term, and of course he could well have done this for attention.

“Tulsi Gabbard is currently the only Presidential candidate who doesn’t want to send White children off to die for Israel,” the former Grand Wizard tweeted his more than 50,000 followers along with a photograph of Gabbard meeting a US service member and his child.

I suspect the "far right" is not homogeneous, which is of course typical of extremists, the right-left scale isn't adequate.  The term to me means anyone who is completely intolerant of others and wants the country to be entirely white and straight and homogeneous, or at least their part of it, with guns for everyone and small government like we had in 1820.  

Le Pen is considered pretty far right in France, but she's a socialist, or claims to be, just mostly anti-immigrant, which I find many French are in their homes.  It's sort of eye opening to hear very well educated French men being so anti-immigrant in private.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 07, 2020, 09:00:34 AM
OK, he supported Gabbard, but not Sanders ....

I suppose Duke is one example of a far right type.  He's probably more correctly termed a white supremacist anti-Semite of course.  That alone doesn't make him "far right", depending on how one views the term, and of course he could well have done this for attention.

“Tulsi Gabbard is currently the only Presidential candidate who doesn’t want to send White children off to die for Israel,” the former Grand Wizard tweeted his more than 50,000 followers along with a photograph of Gabbard meeting a US service member and his child.

I suspect the "far right" is not homogeneous, which is of course typical of extremists, the right-left scale isn't adequate.  The term to me means anyone who is completely intolerant of others and wants the country to be entirely white and straight and homogeneous, or at least their part of it, with guns for everyone and small government like we had in 1820. 

Le Pen is considered pretty far right in France, but she's a socialist, or claims to be, just mostly anti-immigrant, which I find many French are in their homes.  It's sort of eye opening to hear very well educated French men being so anti-immigrant in private. 
I would say that anyone associated with White Supremacy or anti-semitism is far far right. 
They don’t represent voices of middle to middle right. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 09:06:09 AM
Yeah, that's one pretty good definition, and I doubt many of them would vote for Bernie.

The Tulsi thing could well have been a play for attention.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 07, 2020, 09:14:31 AM
David Duke endorsed Tulsi Gabbard 
She is very pretty.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 07, 2020, 09:18:05 AM
She is very pretty.
😂😅

mind reader 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 07, 2020, 09:19:05 AM
She is very pretty.
I kinda liked her but she was shot down by the dems cause she didnt lean left enough
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 07, 2020, 09:25:48 AM
I kinda liked her but she was shot down by the dems cause she didnt lean left enough
This is what I’m talking about. 

I saw that the mayor of Minneapolis was vehemently booed out of the protest yesterday because he would not answer the “yes or no “question of whether he would commit to defund the police. It’s like the radical view or no viewers all is tolerated. Also there are several video angles of him walking out of the protest and people are up in his face and screaming at him and several objects are thrown at him. Peacefull? decide for yourself.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 09:46:39 AM
What does it mean "defund the police"?  I see some saying it means cut their funding and put the money to other uses.

If it means do away with the entire operation, well, ....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 07, 2020, 10:08:11 AM
What does it mean "defund the police"?  I see some saying it means cut their funding and put the money to other uses.

If it means do away with the entire operation, well, ....
not only that but many of them want to eliminate prisons as well

great for the community
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 10:11:48 AM
I can't believe many people really believe all that.  Some radical do no doubt.

I think what we will see is some highly publicized efforts to fund "social programs" in inner cities and perhaps reduce police funding by a bit, and in 3-4 years it will go back to "normal".

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 07, 2020, 10:32:16 AM
I can't believe many people really believe all that.  Some radical do no doubt.

I think what we will see is some highly publicized efforts to fund "social programs" in inner cities and perhaps reduce police funding by a bit, and in 3-4 years it will go back to "normal".


that may be true but right now youve got members of congress as well as various city elected officials wanting to defund police forces
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 10:35:32 AM
I suspect they really mean "reduce funding and spend the money on social programs ...".

I do not believe ANY larger city will eliminate the police force.  The city would effectively die in short order.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 07, 2020, 10:48:11 AM
I suspect they really mean "reduce funding and spend the money on social programs ...".

I do not believe ANY larger city will eliminate the police force.  The city would effectively die in short order.
meanwhile gun sales are through the roof just in case youre wrong
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 10:50:37 AM
Gun sales always go up whenever there is discord, or when a Democrat is about to be elected.

If some larger city actually eliminated the PD, how can that work?  Just having a lot of guns isn't going to help me personally.  My property would be worthless and I'd have to leave.  I could stay bunkered up here for a few weeks I suppose.

I don't understand the premise at all.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 07, 2020, 10:52:22 AM
Literally none of these is anything a non-radical liberal desires.  Zero.
And you would know this... how? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 11:00:15 AM
Well, let's examine each item cited and ask whether many in the black community have some sympathy for the position:

super late term abortions
letting prisoners out of jail
harboring felons because they are also illegal immigrants
defunding the police
open borders
taking away their right to bear arms

I am pretty sure that LITERALLY many of those things are supported by a fair number of black voters, and SOME liberal white voters.  Do you think MOST liberals actually favor those positions as written?  I don't.  They might favor the last line item.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 07, 2020, 11:13:57 AM
Cincydawg is indeed be a much better source than Fro, with regards to what "a non-radical liberal desires." 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 07, 2020, 11:14:25 AM
Well, let's examine each item cited and ask whether many in the black community have some sympathy for the position:

super late term abortions
letting prisoners out of jail
harboring felons because they are also illegal immigrants
defunding the police
open borders
taking away their right to bear arms

I am pretty sure that LITERALLY many of those things are supported by a fair number of black voters, and SOME liberal white voters.  Do you think MOST liberals actually favor those positions as written?  I don't.  They might favor the last line item.


Those are the positions being openly discussed by the LEADERS on that side, and supported by the others with microphones. That’s my point- those in the middle to middle right see that as their other choice. 

in the last several days I have seen Antifa compared to our soldiers on D-Day.  Can you imagine how that makes mainstream (left and right but closer to middle) feel?
This morning Fox website showed the video of an unprovoked stabbing of a NYC cop, but nothing about police getting too violent with protesters.
CNN showed a Philly cop striking a protester in the head with brutal force, but nothing about the 300 or so cops injured or killed so far. Again, extremes which make a dialogue nearly impossible. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 11:16:58 AM
I saw the meme about "the original antifascists" and D-Day.  It's true in one sense, but there was an "Antifa" by that name before Hitler took over.

These memes are mostly ridiculous attempts to compare things that are not comparable.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 07, 2020, 12:20:38 PM
I kinda liked her but she was shot down by the dems cause she didnt lean left enough
Lol. No. She was shot down by the establishment Dems because she didn't lean RIGHT enough. She was a rising star in the Democratic party UNTIL they went after her as retribution over quitting her position at the DNC and being openly anti-Hillary Clinton in 2016 because of HRC being a right-wing war hawk. Tulsi is against the endless wars and the occupation of foreign nations. And what happened? The Clinton machine went after her and Hillary openly called her a Russian agent, and got all of the other Dems and the morons in the media who follow every word HRC says to start smearing Tulsi as a Russian agent.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on June 07, 2020, 12:27:51 PM
In other news, the Mrs. and I are celebrating our first anniversary. 

It's been one hell of a year. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 07, 2020, 12:46:13 PM
not only that but many of them want to eliminate prisons as well

great for the community
I haven't seen anyone seriously suggest eliminating all prisons. I think that you're confusing eliminating private prisons with all prisons. And there is a very legitimate argument that can be made to end private prisons.

What would be great for the community is to end the stupid, wasteful, endless "war on drugs" and spend that wasted countless billions and billions of dollars on fixing the crumbling infrastructure and education systems in many of the inner cities that are disproportionately affected by the "war on drugs".

The United States has the highest incarceration rate in the entire world. We have 2.3 million citizens in jail. This is more than China- which has OVER 1 billion more people than the US. And many of the prisoners in the US are in on trumped up bullshit charges.

The entire criminal justice system, law enforcement system, and prison system is ass backwards and needs huge foundational change. There is no valid reason on earth that the US should have only 4% of the worlds total population yet have 22+% of the worlds total prison population.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 07, 2020, 12:47:08 PM
In other news, the Mrs. and I are celebrating our first anniversary.

It's been one hell of a year.
Congrats brother!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 07, 2020, 01:08:40 PM
I saw the meme about "the original antifascists" and D-Day.  It's true in one sense, but there was an "Antifa" by that name before Hitler took over.

These memes are mostly ridiculous attempts to compare things that are not comparable.
They are, though some amuse me. 

(Is that one supposed to be taken seriously? It's kinda like those shirts that show native american warriors with the header "Original Homeland Security")
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 07, 2020, 01:19:31 PM
They are, though some amuse me.

(Is that one supposed to be taken seriously? It's kinda like those shirts that show native american warriors with the header "Original Homeland Security")
Well you don’t get to be the arbiter of what ideas a political persuasion- in this particular case, the left- are to be taken seriously

To glorify Antifa in that matter/ which is now a rapidly growing trend/ see CNN- is beyond serious and alarming to many- I I can completely understand why. 

It is like this concept of defunding and or eliminating police.  We now have elected officials not only pushing this- forming public rallies in it. Why some here are so dismissive of it is weird to me.  Elected Dem officials are espousing this. Think about that fact.  It’s coming.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 07, 2020, 01:24:39 PM
A few years ago I sold 3 guns, as my wife requested I do.

She told me this morning that she regrets asking me to do it. I regret not keeping firm. Oh well. I still have 3, and I can still fire only one at a time.

I'd like to find some extra clips. All of my guns came from my son (the Marine) so maybe he can find them. Ammo is pretty tough to find too, now, he tells me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 07, 2020, 01:26:58 PM
Well you don’t get to be the arbiter of what ideas a political persuasion- in this particular case, the left- are to be taken seriously

To glorify Antifa in that matter/ which is now a rapidly growing trend/ see CNN- is beyond serious and alarming to many- I I can completely understand why. 

It is like this concept of defunding and or eliminating police.  We now have elected officials not only pushing this- forming public rallies in it. Why some here are so dismissive of it is weird to me.  Elected Dem officials are espousing this. Think about that fact.  It’s coming.
You are right. I cannot tell people not to be upset by things. They have the rights to their own strong feelings and to take offense to what offends them. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 07, 2020, 01:29:59 PM
A few years ago I sold 3 guns, as my wife requested I do.

She told me this morning that she regrets asking me to do it. I regret not keeping firm. Oh well. I still have 3, and I can still fire only one at a time.

I'd like to find some extra clips. All of my guns came from my son (the Marine) so maybe he can find them. Ammo is pretty tough to find too, now, he tells me.
Likewise.  I have never owned a weapon.  That changed very recently.  

it is simple- I now feel the need to defend my home, my family and I do not have confidence that the direction things are going, will afford me the protection from violence I once took for granted 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 07, 2020, 01:35:22 PM
A few years ago I sold 3 guns, as my wife requested I do.

She told me this morning that she regrets asking me to do it. I regret not keeping firm. Oh well. I still have 3, and I can still fire only one at a time.

I'd like to find some extra clips. All of my guns came from my son (the Marine) so maybe he can find them. Ammo is pretty tough to find too, now, he tells me.
I find the psychology of something like this fascinating. It always feels like something that's more about a feeling of safety than functional per say, but obviously a feeling of safety is something can be important. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 01:53:26 PM
Cities will claim to defund the police by cutting their budget a bit and reallocating monies for some social program, and in 2-3 years that will revert back again.

It's a cycle.

And in general, that thing that holds cartridges in a firearm is a magazine, a clip is something that is rarely employed any more, if it matters.  Gun nuts will call you a newbie if you confuse the two.  And if guns are new to you, get some serious training.  Some folks get something like a 9 mm and don't realize it can hold a round in the chamber when the magazine is out.  Don't put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to fire.  Don't ever point it in the direction of a human unless you have to.  And check the chamber for a "hidden" round, and check it again.  Youse guys know all this.

Some tactical training is also advised.  It's interesting.  

I tell people the story about my airplane incident when the engine finally did fail, it was like my hands were doing stuff automatically, muscle memory.  I was mentally somewhat detached.  I'd been through the exercise often enough that I knew what needed to be done (not that it's very complex).

My piano playing is kind of the same, sometimes my hands "know" where to go before I do.  I'm at about 70% of where I used to be.  Maybe.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 07, 2020, 02:08:19 PM
For home defense, what's better? Revolver or shotgun? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 07, 2020, 02:17:13 PM
For home defense, what's better? Revolver or shotgun?
Both.

Putting a laser sight on a forehead could work well too, I imagine.

But, if you had to choose one, shotgun it is.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 02:24:55 PM
For home defense, what's better? Revolver or shotgun?

An issue with a shotgun or any long gun is simply that it is a bit unwieldly, you can't quickly check around a corner if that is a need.  A shotgun has the advantage of being "almost can't miss" a target inside 20 feet or so.  A 9 mm will often have a 15 round magazine, so there is that advantage over a revolver.

I have a very small fixe shot .357 with internal hammer that works nicely, you can shoot .38 specials, or +Ps, etc.  A .357 round will pretty much penetrate anything you're like to hit in a house, probably not the fridge.  

If I personally had one weapon for home defense, inside the home, it was be a 9 mm.  I think.  But whatever you are comfortable with and proficient with is best.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 07, 2020, 02:25:39 PM
For home defense, what's better? Revolver or shotgun?

An AR-15, if your house is getting swarmed by looters during a riot/power outage/natural disaster. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 07, 2020, 02:27:20 PM
Both.

Putting a laser sight on a forehead could work well too, I imagine.

But, if you had to choose one, shotgun it is.
That might be tricky because you need a friend to tell you it's there. Can't see your forehead. 

A shotgun would certianly be easier to aim, but with the downside of messing up more of your house. Granted, the sound of the pump action might be it's own deterrent. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 02:34:46 PM
I figure if I had a house being swarmed by looters, either a shot gun blast would encourage them to go elsewhere, or I would be overwhelmed.  At least it makes more noise than a 5.56 round.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 07, 2020, 02:43:15 PM
If got a Glock 17 and feel very secure with it

We live in a pretty good neighborhood so hopefully I'll never need it but you never know

Theres a story about someone getting on a Houston bus a while back with the intent of robbing its passengers

when he stood up and pulled his gun no less then 3 passengers pulled theirs at which time he gave up and was held for arrest

only in Texas
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 07, 2020, 02:43:57 PM
That might be tricky because you need a friend to tell you it's there. Can't see your forehead.

A shotgun would certianly be easier to aim, but with the downside of messing up more of your house. Granted, the sound of the pump action might be it's own deterrent.
You can see the laser. I've tested this.

Yeah, shotgun would leave a big mess - of the intruder and your house. But, that's all better than being a victim.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 07, 2020, 02:51:56 PM
You can see the laser. I've tested this.

Yeah, shotgun would leave a big mess - of the intruder and your house. But, that's all better than being a victim.
Sure, but first you have to hook up the fog machine to your home security system. And then when the system goes off by accident, fog everywhere. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 07, 2020, 02:56:45 PM
the thing I like about the Glock 17 is that it makes a big noise and has a lot of stopping power

a 15 shot clip is also handy
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 03:02:39 PM
If you pick a Glock, then of course you have to decide on what caliber and cartridge type.

For naval rifles, the term "caliber" refers to the length of the barrel to the diameter of the block.  So, a gun might be 16 inch 50 calibers.

WW II tank guns had the same sort of designation.  The Panzer IV started out with a short 75 mm main gun, 30 caliber I think it was, and later was fitted with a more powerful 75 mm gun in 75 calibers, I probably have the second 75 wrong.  I'd hafta look it up.

The Panzer IV F2 and up were upgunned to try and handle the Soviet T34 and KV tanks.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 07, 2020, 03:13:42 PM
Cities will claim to defund the police by cutting their budget a bit and reallocating monies for some social program, and in 2-3 years that will revert back again.

It's a cycle.

And in general, that thing that holds cartridges in a firearm is a magazine, a clip is something that is rarely employed any more, if it matters.  Gun nuts will call you a newbie if you confuse the two.  And if guns are new to you, get some serious training.  Some folks get something like a 9 mm and don't realize it can hold a round in the chamber when the magazine is out.  Don't put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to fire.  Don't ever point it in the direction of a human unless you have to.  And check the chamber for a "hidden" round, and check it again.  Youse guys know all this.

Some tactical training is also advised.  It's interesting. 

I tell people the story about my airplane incident when the engine finally did fail, it was like my hands were doing stuff automatically, muscle memory.  I was mentally somewhat detached.  I'd been through the exercise often enough that I knew what needed to be done (not that it's very complex).

My piano playing is kind of the same, sometimes my hands "know" where to go before I do.  I'm at about 70% of where I used to be.  Maybe.


Well said.  I mentioned I never owned a weapon, but I never said I am not trained and practiced at it. 😉
I hope with all of my heart that I never need to fire it outside the range that is about 2 miles from me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 07, 2020, 03:16:10 PM
The violent ones are deploying a hitherto unknown weapon.

(https://preview.redd.it/op3mt2fbuh351.jpg?auto=webp&s=9187e30f01d3c20076d8d492cae7dd8c3514e89f)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 07, 2020, 03:21:19 PM
If you pick a Glock, then of course you have to decide on what caliber and cartridge type.

For naval rifles, the term "caliber" refers to the length of the barrel to the diameter of the block.  So, a gun might be 16 inch 50 calibers.

WW II tank guns had the same sort of designation.  The Panzer IV started out with a short 75 mm main gun, 30 caliber I think it was, and later was fitted with a more powerful 75 mm gun in 75 calibers, I probably have the second 75 wrong.  I'd hafta look it up.

The Panzer IV F2 and up were upgunned to try and handle the Soviet T34 and KV tanks.
Glock 17 uses 9 MM
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 03:25:51 PM
Yes, and the two standard magazines are 10 (+1) and 17 (+1).

That is a lot of rounds from a single mag.  Glocks in general come in all sorts of type of course.  I recall folks terrorized that it was a plastic gun.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 07, 2020, 03:28:13 PM
I would say that anyone associated with White Supremacy or anti-semitism is far far right. 
They don’t represent voices of middle to middle right.
There's plenty of anti-Semitism on the far left.  A couple of the 1st-term, far-left, minority congresswoman verge on Holocaust-denial.
And the Nazis in Germany claimed to be the party of the Left.  Goebbels said: “The idea of the Nazi Party is expressly that we are the German Left.  Nothing is more hated by us than the right-wing national property-owner's bloc.”
A lot of people don't fit neatly on a 2-dimensional political model.
But I agree that "conservatives" who advocate white supremacy or anti-Semitism are on the extreme fringe.  At the extremes, it's sometimes hard to tell left and right apart.  The operational similarities seem far more substantial than the rhetorical differences.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 03:31:58 PM
My CCL expired, and good thing I happened to look at it one day to see that.  I was iffy about getting a new one here.  I think I will go ahead and do it.  For one thing, if I am headed to the range I don't want any confusions about how I carry it.

$71 plus a $5 finger printing fee.  And trip downtown.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 07, 2020, 03:32:08 PM
Yes, and the two standard magazines are 10 (+1) and 17 (+1).

That is a lot of rounds from a single mag.  Glocks in general come in all sorts of type of course.  I recall folks terrorized that it was a plastic gun.
I have the 17 shot clip

Im not sure how many times Ive been to the range with it but its a lot and it is the most dependable gun Ive ever owned

it has never jammed on me and Im pretty happy with it

I dont do conceal & carry as its strictly for home protection
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 03:33:28 PM
Activist Muslims tend to be anti-Israeli, if that counts as being anti-Semitic.  It does get confusing at times.  Humans like binary scales.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 03:34:56 PM
I have a Taurus 9 mm with a 16 round magazine.  It's too big to carry concealed without quite a bit of effort.  I have another Taurus in 9 mm that is much smaller, and the aforesaid .357, which is bulky because of the cylinder.  I left the shotgun in Cincinnati.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 07, 2020, 03:35:01 PM
My CCL expired, and good thing I happened to look at it one day to see that.  I was iffy about getting a new one here.  I think I will go ahead and do it.  For one thing, if I am headed to the range I don't want any confusions about how I carry it.

$71 plus a $5 finger printing fee.  And trip downtown.


in Texas they allow you to have a gun in your car with no conceal carry as long as you own the car

so no need for a permit to go to the range
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 07, 2020, 03:36:10 PM
There's plenty of anti-Semitism on the far left.  A couple of the 1st-term, far-left, minority congresswoman verge on Holocaust-denial.
Is this true? I’ve seen some of them calling for BDS. That isn’t the same as being a Holocaust denier. Far from it. You can be a critic of Israel and not be Anti-Semitic or Holocaust denier. I see a lot of people trying to call anyone who dares criticize Israel an anti-Semite or Holocaust denier and it’s almost as ridiculous as HRC calling anyone who doesn’t bow at the feet of her alter a Russian puppet.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 03:36:40 PM
In Ohio is was supposed to be in the trunk, unloaded, and my car has no trunk.  I think it could also be "out of reach" whatever that means.

It was just easier to get a permit, but it expired before I could use it to get one here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 07, 2020, 03:37:32 PM
I have a Taurus 9 mm with a 16 round magazine.  It's too big to carry concealed without quite a bit of effort.  I have another Taurus in 9 mm that is much smaller, and the aforesaid .357, which is bulky because of the cylinder.  I left the shotgun in Cincinnati.


yep if I was going to do conceal carry I'd go to a smaller Glock model but I have never felt the need to do it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 03:38:17 PM
I know some Jews personally who are outspoken critics of Israel.  They aren't observant.

They also had no idea Trump's daughter is Jewish and refused to believe me when I mentioned it.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 07, 2020, 03:40:04 PM
Activist Muslims tend to be anti-Israeli, if that counts as being anti-Semitic.  It does get confusing at times.  Humans like binary scales.
It’s not really that confusing, maybe to simple minded folks. 

Judaism is a religion, not an ethnicity or country. Anyone who has a problem with Judaism for no other reason than just because they don’t like the religion is a bigot.

Israel is an apartheid nation state that illegally interferes with the US government and US elections and has been carrying out a brutal, violent, repressive occupation of an entire people for 50+ years. It’s pretty easy to criticize Israel, and it’s morally right to do so. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 03:41:02 PM
When we first moved here, I was not sure how safe the streets are at night, so I was careful, but didn't carry.  It was spring going into summer so it stayed light pretty long.  I started seeing single women strolling about at night, not THAT kind of women, and figured it is pretty safe.  Some of the ladies during the day stroll around in exercise wear that can be rather, um, provocative.  After 11 PM things basically close up and go quiet anyway.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 03:43:27 PM
Well, technically, Arabs are Semitic, so to be antisemitic can mean anti-Arab.  There are Arabs in the Knesset of course.

The book "Paris 1919" is very interesting, I should read it again.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 07, 2020, 03:43:38 PM
I know some Jews personally who are outspoken critics of Israel.  They aren't observant.

They also had no idea Trump's daughter is Jewish and refused to believe me when I mentioned it.


I continue to be mystified by the fact that the majority of the Jewish people votes democratic  course that might change this year
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 07, 2020, 03:48:17 PM
I continue to be mystified by the fact that the majority of the Jewish people votes democratic  course that might change this year
How is this mystifying to you? The Democratic Party has long covered for and assisted Israeli atrocities. They Democrats are huge Israel boosters. Both sides are.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 07, 2020, 03:49:25 PM
Well, technically, Arabs are Semitic, so to be antisemitic can mean anti-Arab.  There are Arabs in the Knesset of course.

The book "Paris 1919" is very interesting, I should read it again. 
Yeah and I believe most Jews around the world today are European of ancestry, and not Semitic at all. Weird.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 07, 2020, 03:54:30 PM
It’s not really that confusing, maybe to simple minded folks.

Judaism is a religion, not an ethnicity or country. Anyone who has a problem with Judaism for no other reason than just because they don’t like the religion is a bigot.

Israel is an apartheid nation state that illegally interferes with the US government and US elections and has been carrying out a brutal, violent, repressive occupation of an entire people for 50+ years. It’s pretty easy to criticize Israel, and it’s morally right to do so.
You are mistaken.  Israel is not an apartheid state.  It's a representative democracy with free speech, rule of law, and a lively, argumentative political system. Israeli Muslims can and do serve in the Knesset and they serve in the IDF right alongside Jews.  Muslims in Israel are the freest, and have the most political rights, of any Muslims in the Middle East.  I'm not claiming that it is a utopia.  There aren't any of those and there never will be.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 07, 2020, 03:56:32 PM
How is this mystifying to you? The Democratic Party has long covered for and assisted Israeli atrocities. They Democrats are huge Israel boosters. Both sides are.
Interesting.  You just (a few posts above) de-linked being anti-Israel and anti-Semitic, and yet here you link being Jewish and support for Israel.  You get to have it both ways.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 04:00:13 PM
A guy at work I got to know claimed to be a Jewish atheist.  He went to Temple on Saturday.  He said it was Jewish, but not religious, at all.  It celebrated heritage, no religion, no war, etc.  I thought that would be hard to do.

I googled it and he was correct, a secular Jewish temple.

The wife's friends claim to be Jewish but don't participate at all and haven't for eons.  My buddy who owned the wine shop was Jewish and didn't attend anything but his wife converted and he would celebrate Hannukah etc.  He made those potato cake thingees in the back of his shop a few times, they are pretty tasty.

I still chat with him from time to time.  Our next door neighbors were Jewish but didn't attend anything, I don't think the wife converted.  He was my MD.  I never knew of a reason to be against Jews based on the ones I've known.  Of course, I'm pretty easy going, I even like some French.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 04:01:42 PM
Man, we're really running roughshod over the Rules.  I never much liked Rules anyway.

I think I recall that CWS is one of the reasons we had rules.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 07, 2020, 04:03:18 PM
If one is not going to practice, a double-action revolver is the best home-defense weapon.  It has the least probability of either an accidental discharge or a failure to fire, either from forgetting to release the safety or due to a jam.  Most, if not all, semi-autos are sensitive to ammunition incompatibility to some degree.  Nearly all of them work best with FMJ round-nose bullets, but FMJ round-nose bullets are not the best for home defense.  Most are less reliable when you start firing hollow-points.

With a DA revolver, it's point, pull the trigger through until it fires.  Repeat.  But you've usually only got six shots, so you need to make 'em count.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 04:08:33 PM
I agree with that, my .357 has five rounds.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 07, 2020, 04:20:01 PM
You are mistaken.  Israel is not an apartheid state.  It's a representative democracy with free speech, rule of law, and a lively, argumentative political system. Israeli Muslims can and do serve in the Knesset and they serve in the IDF right alongside Jews.  Muslims in Israel are the freest, and have the most political rights, of any Muslims in the Middle East.  I'm not claiming that it is a utopia.  There aren't any of those and there never will be.
Lol. This is pie in the sky bs and just not true, and you know it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 07, 2020, 04:21:08 PM
Interesting.  You just (a few posts above) de-linked being anti-Israel and anti-Semitic, and yet here you link being Jewish and support for Israel.  You get to have it both ways.
I didn’t link anything, longhorn did. And I was responding to his post.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 07, 2020, 04:25:39 PM
Man, we're really running roughshod over the Rules.  I never much liked Rules anyway.

I think I recall that CWS is one of the reasons we had rules.
The college world series?

(I wouldn't mind a return to the rules at some point. But for the moment, the lack of sports is making me shrug it off)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 07, 2020, 04:27:23 PM
A guy at work I got to know claimed to be a Jewish atheist.  He went to Temple on Saturday.  He said it was Jewish, but not religious, at all.  It celebrated heritage, no religion, no war, etc.  I thought that would be hard to do.

I googled it and he was correct, a secular Jewish temple.

The wife's friends claim to be Jewish but don't participate at all and haven't for eons.  My buddy who owned the wine shop was Jewish and didn't attend anything but his wife converted and he would celebrate Hannukah etc.  He made those potato cake thingees in the back of his shop a few times, they are pretty tasty.

I still chat with him from time to time.  Our next door neighbors were Jewish but didn't attend anything, I don't think the wife converted.  He was my MD.  I never knew of a reason to be against Jews based on the ones I've known.  Of course, I'm pretty easy going, I even like some French.
I've sometimes described it as being part of a people. There's a religious element, but also cultural. Maybe semi-ethnic depending on one's view. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 07, 2020, 04:32:05 PM

I continue to be mystified by the fact that the majority of the Jewish people votes democratic  course that might change this year
Israel is a interestingly divided nation in its own right. Certain strains of the dominant politics there don't jive with the politics of communities here. (There were also a lot of strains of socialism in its early founding, though now it's sharply split with mostly secular but cultural jewish folks and the ultra-orthodox, who often opt out of some of some of the normal social order. It's a fascinating place)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 07, 2020, 05:01:15 PM
I am very glad we are having these conversations, as it seems for the most part they are friendly exchanges of different ideas.  

There’s very places you can have that.  

Besides- who else would I rather learn from then a bunch of knuckleheads from around the country who share my love for CFB. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 05:04:49 PM
I used to think the place was better if none of us had a clue who was a raving left wing maniac and who was a raving right wing racist tool, but really, the group seems to be mostly mainstream, which doesn't really surprise me.

We're also used to each other, which helps.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 07, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
Ex
I used to think the place was better if none of us had a clue who was a raving left wing maniac and who was a raving right wing racist tool, but really, the group seems to be mostly mainstream, which doesn't really surprise me.

We're also used to each other, which helps.


Exactly.   For example I used to think MDOT was a raving UM slappy.  
Come to find out- he is a very worldly raving slappy on many topics.
🤪😂😛😛
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 05:13:50 PM
The wife bought this gizmo to clean windows.  The instructions were written by a lunatic.  It's actually pretty simple to use.  We have a large number of sliding glass doors and they get a bit dirty.  I don't mind myself.

We also have a composite nine window window that goes up to the second floor. It's pretty neat, but I ain't cleaning the outside.  

She was going to hire someone to do it, and I figured I could give it a shot.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 07, 2020, 05:14:26 PM
It’s not really that confusing, maybe to simple minded folks.

Judaism is a religion, not an ethnicity or country. Anyone who has a problem with Judaism for no other reason than just because they don’t like the religion is a bigot.

Pretty sure there is Jewish ethnicity

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/498027/jewish/Are-Jews-a-Race.htm (https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/498027/jewish/Are-Jews-a-Race.htm)


All that geneticists know so far is that there is certainly a “cluster” of typical Jewish DNA. They’ve also been able to identify several distinct haplotypes—markers in the chromosome structure that cropped up in one individual and have been passed on ever since. That allows them to approximate the age of these unique features, along with a good guess at the geographic origin. The time machine of our genes show that most Jews have a shared ancestry that traces back to ancient Israel. Any competing theories will have to argue with hard science.2 (http://javascript:doFootnote('2a498027');)

We confirm the notion that the Ashkenazi, North African, and Sephardi Jews share substantial genetic ancestry and that they derive it from Middle Eastern and European populations, with no indication of a detectable Khazar contribution to their genetic origins.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2019/12/19/is-judaism-an-ethnicity-race-nationality-trump-signs-an-order-provokes-an-identity-crisis/

 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2019/12/19/is-judaism-an-ethnicity-race-nationality-trump-signs-an-order-provokes-an-identity-crisis/)
In the 1970s, according to General Social Survey data, 99 percent of U.S. Jews were categorized as white. Most of them were Ashkenazi, a European ethnic lineage specific to Jews. In this decade, data shows that 11 percent of U.S. Jews are not white — and some say that is an undercount, since people of color are sometimes overlooked by researchers trying to tally Jews. There are Jews of Ethiopian descent, Sephardic Jews from countries such as Iran, Iraq and Egypt, converts from across the racial spectrum, children of color adopted by Ashkenazi or Sephardic Jews — and all of their children and grandchildren.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 05:14:51 PM
All Michigan fans are raving about something.  I think everyone in the entire state is that way.  It stops at each state line, and the folks in the UP are pretty reasonable.  I think being surrounded by all that water makes it so.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 07, 2020, 05:16:08 PM
😂😂😂
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 05:18:07 PM
I sort of bristle at times when someone says some group is not "white".  None of us are white.  Some of us are a rather pasty pale color that often we try and modify with sun light exposure.  That usually makes us red.  Not Indian red, just ugly pasty red.

What the heck does "white" mean?  Or black?  Do you know how far the Mongols intruded into Europe and the Middle East?  They weren't just there for the loot.

The race concept is inherently destructive IMHO and separates us for no good reason.

I objected to the census form.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 07, 2020, 05:27:49 PM
The race concept is inherently destructive IMHO and separates us for no good reason.

I objected to the census form.
But out pal I'm trying to win an internet argument
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on June 07, 2020, 07:47:14 PM
All Michigan fans are raving about something.  I think everyone in the entire state is that way.  It stops at each state line, and the folks in the UP are pretty reasonable.  I think being surrounded by all that water makes it so.
Four out of five Great Lakes prefer Michigan.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on June 07, 2020, 07:56:09 PM
My in-laws live in the country just west of Ann Arbor, and there are some noticeable differences this civil engineer notices.

Unsurprisingly, given hostilities with Ohio at the time, that state makes a mockery of the Public Land Survey. Right angles are hard to come by. Most roads in the area still follow pre-PLS paths between towns and settlements.

Trees grow right up and over most roadways. I'm used to vegetation being cleared at least out of a clear zone, if not to the right-of-way. Not many road ditches, either.

Power lines have their own easements, and they're set parallel to the road but way out of the right-of-way. Wonder why that is.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 07, 2020, 07:57:49 PM
I sort of bristle at times when someone says some group is not "white".  None of us are white.  Some of us are a rather pasty pale color that often we try and modify with sun light exposure.  That usually makes us red.  Not Indian red, just ugly pasty red.

What the heck does "white" mean?  Or black?  Do you know how far the Mongols intruded into Europe and the Middle East?  They weren't just there for the loot.

The race concept is inherently destructive IMHO and separates us for no good reason.

I objected to the census form.
Mongols penetrated Russia.  The realm of the Golden Horde occupied the north shore of the Black Sea.

Patton called Russians "Mongoloid sonsabitches."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 07, 2020, 08:01:36 PM
I agree with that, my .357 has five rounds.
S&W J-Frame, by any chance?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 07, 2020, 08:11:27 PM
Pretty sure there is Jewish ethnicity

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/498027/jewish/Are-Jews-a-Race.htm (https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/498027/jewish/Are-Jews-a-Race.htm)


All that geneticists know so far is that there is certainly a “cluster” of typical Jewish DNA. They’ve also been able to identify several distinct haplotypes—markers in the chromosome structure that cropped up in one individual and have been passed on ever since. That allows them to approximate the age of these unique features, along with a good guess at the geographic origin. The time machine of our genes show that most Jews have a shared ancestry that traces back to ancient Israel. Any competing theories will have to argue with hard science.2 (http://javascript:doFootnote('2a498027');)

We confirm the notion that the Ashkenazi, North African, and Sephardi Jews share substantial genetic ancestry and that they derive it from Middle Eastern and European populations, with no indication of a detectable Khazar contribution to their genetic origins.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2019/12/19/is-judaism-an-ethnicity-race-nationality-trump-signs-an-order-provokes-an-identity-crisis/

 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2019/12/19/is-judaism-an-ethnicity-race-nationality-trump-signs-an-order-provokes-an-identity-crisis/)
In the 1970s, according to General Social Survey data, 99 percent of U.S. Jews were categorized as white. Most of them were Ashkenazi, a European ethnic lineage specific to Jews. In this decade, data shows that 11 percent of U.S. Jews are not white — and some say that is an undercount, since people of color are sometimes overlooked by researchers trying to tally Jews. There are Jews of Ethiopian descent, Sephardic Jews from countries such as Iran, Iraq and Egypt, converts from across the racial spectrum, children of color adopted by Ashkenazi or Sephardic Jews — and all of their children and grandchildren.
While we generally think or assume that Jews are people who believe in Judaism, it's just as accurate to say that Judaism is the religion of the Jews.  And that goes for converts and their descendants, of all colors and national ancestries.  There are Jewish atheists, whereas you seldom if ever hear of Catholic or Presbyterian atheists.  So it's a religion, and it's an ethnicity, and it's more than either by itself.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 07, 2020, 08:13:38 PM
An AR-15, if your house is getting swarmed by looters during a riot/power outage/natural disaster.
I'm not trying to fight of the zombie hordes...

Pretty sure after the first blast of a 12ga, looters are going to look for easier targets.

I do see "both" as a viable option, as both a revolver and a shotgun have limited capacity, and in a more drawn-out engagement, one of my wife or I can be shooting while the other reloads... But I'm not expecting heavy combat. More along the lines of one blast being enough to signal "get the F out of here" intent...

And I went for revolver or pump-action shotgun as the options because I'm not a "gun guy". For a first firearm, I figure I want something that's dead-simple to operate and maintain, proven over decades, and reliable always. If I get the bug, down the road there might be more elaborate weapons, but sometimes you just need a SHTF protection in the house. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 07, 2020, 08:15:26 PM
Pretty sure there is Jewish ethnicity

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/498027/jewish/Are-Jews-a-Race.htm (https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/498027/jewish/Are-Jews-a-Race.htm)


All that geneticists know so far is that there is certainly a “cluster” of typical Jewish DNA. They’ve also been able to identify several distinct haplotypes—markers in the chromosome structure that cropped up in one individual and have been passed on ever since. That allows them to approximate the age of these unique features, along with a good guess at the geographic origin. The time machine of our genes show that most Jews have a shared ancestry that traces back to ancient Israel. Any competing theories will have to argue with hard science.2 (http://javascript:doFootnote('2a498027');)

We confirm the notion that the Ashkenazi, North African, and Sephardi Jews share substantial genetic ancestry and that they derive it from Middle Eastern and European populations, with no indication of a detectable Khazar contribution to their genetic origins.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2019/12/19/is-judaism-an-ethnicity-race-nationality-trump-signs-an-order-provokes-an-identity-crisis/

 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2019/12/19/is-judaism-an-ethnicity-race-nationality-trump-signs-an-order-provokes-an-identity-crisis/)
In the 1970s, according to General Social Survey data, 99 percent of U.S. Jews were categorized as white. Most of them were Ashkenazi, a European ethnic lineage specific to Jews. In this decade, data shows that 11 percent of U.S. Jews are not white — and some say that is an undercount, since people of color are sometimes overlooked by researchers trying to tally Jews. There are Jews of Ethiopian descent, Sephardic Jews from countries such as Iran, Iraq and Egypt, converts from across the racial spectrum, children of color adopted by Ashkenazi or Sephardic Jews — and all of their children and grandchildren.
Technically, I'm a Jew. It's passed down on your maternal bloodline, and my mother's mother was Jewish. 23andme has confirmed it, too... I'm a little over 20% Ashkenazi genetically, which makes perfect sense if 25% of my bloodline was actually Jewish.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 07, 2020, 08:18:18 PM
Got the new amp, subwoofer, crossovers, etc installed. Still need to take some time to tune the gain, amp crossover frequencies, etc. 

But I finished the hard part, wiring it up. That's an area where I need assistance because as I'm colorblind, even though I had a Jeep wiring diagram, I often have to ask regarding a wire "what color is this?" We've got the kids this weekend so my 12 yo got to be my color tester. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2020, 09:17:22 PM
Technically, I'm a Jew. It's passed down on your maternal bloodline, and my mother's mother was Jewish. 23andme has confirmed it, too... I'm a little over 20% Ashkenazi genetically, which makes perfect sense if 25% of my bloodline was actually Jewish.
Cool.  Explore who you are, while you can.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 08, 2020, 12:32:57 AM
Technically, I'm a Jew. It's passed down on your maternal bloodline, and my mother's mother was Jewish. 23andme has confirmed it, too... I'm a little over 20% Ashkenazi genetically, which makes perfect sense if 25% of my bloodline was actually Jewish.
Which would make you European.

https://www.livescience.com/amp/40247-ashkenazi-jews-have-european-genes.html
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 08, 2020, 12:47:04 AM
I sort of bristle at times when someone says some group is not "white".  None of us are white.  Some of us are a rather pasty pale color that often we try and modify with sun light exposure.  That usually makes us red.  Not Indian red, just ugly pasty red.

What the heck does "white" mean?  Or black?  Do you know how far the Mongols intruded into Europe and the Middle East?  They weren't just there for the loot.

The race concept is inherently destructive IMHO and separates us for no good reason.

I objected to the census form.
Agree 100%. It’s the different cultural norms/language/religious differences that separate us. And all that stuff like the idea of race is just an invention of man too. At the end of the day we are all just human beings brother. Nothing more nothing less. Everyone has the same feelings, goes through the same experiences of love and loss, heartache, joy, pain- and death comes for us all one day. 

Speaking of the Mongols, Ghengis Khan the direct descendant of 1 in every 200 men alive in the entire world today. That’s insane when you really think about it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 08, 2020, 08:46:52 AM
Got the new amp, subwoofer, crossovers, etc installed. Still need to take some time to tune the gain, amp crossover frequencies, etc.

But I finished the hard part, wiring it up. That's an area where I need assistance because as I'm colorblind, even though I had a Jeep wiring diagram, I often have to ask regarding a wire "what color is this?" We've got the kids this weekend so my 12 yo got to be my color tester.


Coolio.

I'm okay with the head unit in our new Jeep.  It's not great, but it will do.  The speakers on the other hand are pretty bad.  Below average for sure, which is disappointing because they need to be BETTER than average to cut through the additional road noise you get in a Jeep.  The speakers on my wife's Toyota convertible were fantastic, by comparison. 

So I'm thinking new speakers will be one of our first upgrades.  Well, after the new front bumper and winch, which are already on order and en route. :)


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 08, 2020, 09:19:29 AM
The college world series?

(I wouldn't mind a return to the rules at some point. But for the moment, the lack of sports is making me shrug it off)
I guess this is where I'm at.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on June 08, 2020, 09:57:39 AM
https://spectator.us/jk-rowling-road-terfdom/ (https://spectator.us/jk-rowling-road-terfdom/)


JK Rowling and the battle for women's rights
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 08, 2020, 10:17:28 AM
Damn. John Oliver killed it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf4cea5oObY
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 08, 2020, 10:38:23 AM
Sounds like a bunch of crap to me

why no mention of the violence and crime from the looters

thank God the police were there to protect us

If the protesters would stick to protesting there would not have been a police response 

with tear gas
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 08, 2020, 10:55:55 AM
Damn. John Oliver killed it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf4cea5oObY
I’ll watch it, but I really don’t like the guy. I think he’s very deceitful. But again he’s a comedian so it’s probably not best to take him too seriously.

Jon Stewart was the best their ever was in that space. I don’t think anyone has come close to him since he left. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 08, 2020, 11:00:41 AM
https://spectator.us/jk-rowling-road-terfdom/ (https://spectator.us/jk-rowling-road-terfdom/)


JK Rowling and the battle for women's rights
The twitter mob and the trans-nazi’s are batshit insane. It’s really unbelievable the times that we live in.

If someone wants to cut their dick off and have sex change surgery and take female hormones and get breast plants- whatever floats your boat. These people shouldn’t be ridiculed or have violence committed against them or be discriminated against or anything like that- but they should not expect the natural world to just change because they want it to. This is a delusion of grand proportions. Men are men and women are women. Period. Anyone who disputes this is just a god damn lunatic in my book.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 08, 2020, 11:04:53 AM
Sounds like a bunch of crap to me

why no mention of the violence and crime from the looters

thank God the police were there to protect us

If the protesters would stick to protesting there would not have been a police response

with tear gas
Most of the protesters are sticking to protesting, to the point of begging the violent ones to go away.  The police are in many cases overreacting.
Several posters have made the point about the over-militarization of police forces.  You can see it over and over again.  They're wearing armor.  They're carrying shields.  They're wearing helmets and gas masks.  They're carrying nightsticks as well as their sidearms.  At least some of the time, they aren't responding to violence, they are initiating it.  They're ready for combat before there even is combat.  They're treating the protesters as an enemy to be beaten into submission.
I hated the "kneel for the National Anthem" movement.  But if we don't agree with the legitimacy of that, and we don't agree with the legitimacy of protest marches, then what are protesters allowed to do to exercise their 1st Amendment rights?  Only stage protests in favor of what the authorities want to hear?
We've got to have law AND order.  The law protects the protesters' right to have their say.  We have to have order in our cities so that life can go on.  But too many people are acting like it's only one OR the other.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 08, 2020, 11:11:27 AM
The twitter mob and the trans-nazi’s are batshit insane. It’s really unbelievable the times that we live in.

If someone wants to cut their dick off and have sex change surgery and take female hormones and get breast plants- whatever floats your boat. These people shouldn’t be ridiculed or have violence committed against them or be discriminated against or anything like that- but they should not expect the natural world to just change because they want it to. This is a delusion of grand proportions. Men are men and women are women. Period. Anyone who disputes this is just a god damn lunatic in my book.
I wouldn't put it exactly that way, but, yeah.
Having plastic surgery and taking hormone treatments doesn't change anyone's sex.
Notice how "gender" (which originally just referred to categories of nouns) has replaced "sex" in our public conversation?  On applications and questionnaires, for example.
IMO, someone who believes that a man who has had the procedure you describe as some sort of woman is an example of only seeing evidence that supports one's own beliefs.
And someone like J.K. Rowling must be hounded from the public square lest people hear inconvenient and unpleasant truths.
I'm reminded of the "trans-female" invasion of girls' sports.  The "transitioning" boys somehow win all the events.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 08, 2020, 11:17:52 AM
Sounds like a bunch of crap to me

why no mention of the violence and crime from the looters

thank God the police were there to protect us

If the protesters would stick to protesting there would not have been a police response

with tear gas
Protests, and riots, are an explosion of pent-up anger. Looters of course are opportunists riding on top of riots. 

Protests and riots about police brutality don't happen when there's not egregious examples of police brutality in the news, but the anger is under the surface because the problem is always lingering under the surface.

John Oliver's piece, primarily, was on what led to all that pent-up anger. How we got here, what we can do to fix it.

While I'm not excusing the riots/looters, focusing on the effect of the problem instead of the cause of the problem is a tactic of deflection.

I’ll watch it, but I really don’t like the guy. I think he’s very deceitful. But again he’s a comedian so it’s probably not best to take him too seriously.

Jon Stewart was the best their ever was in that space. I don’t think anyone has come close to him since he left.
His "character" definitely comes off as the pompous Brit, and some of his over the top incredulousnous can be tiring, but he does often make some good points. I think the meat of the episode was solid. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 08, 2020, 11:20:38 AM
also no mention of the murdered cop trying to protect private property against looters

I saw lots of peaceful protests where the cops stood back and allowed them to exercise their rights

I dont recall the police disrupting peaceful protests unless it was to enforce a curfew which really didnt happen enough

The police area tool used by a community to maintain order and law

if there is a fault its with how the community administers its police force

bad individual will always be present in any organization and the only thing that can be done is to try and weed them out not close down the organization

If a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it dit it really fall

If a store is robbed and there is no police force was a crime really committed 

thats the defunding logic
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 11:22:38 AM
Not just winning, but setting records, lol.

While I wouldn't put it the way Mdot did, I tend to agree that we are who we are.  That being said, I'm 100% certain some (few) people grow up feeling as if they're the other gender.  But even if that's the case, I'd encourage them to be themselves in the body they have.  Act how you genuinely are...the surgeries and hormones may just be a gigantic band-aid.  

As for the former men in women's athletics, they should have their own division.  That's not based on prejudice, it's based on science.  And I'm afraid if they did have their own division in myriad sports, it'd be too small to be maintained.  It would be unfortunate, but valid, and may open some people's eyes to how few of these individuals there actually are.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 08, 2020, 11:24:21 AM
https://spectator.us/andrew-sullivan-new-york-column-riots/ (https://spectator.us/andrew-sullivan-new-york-column-riots/)

New York magazine forbids gay, Obama-supporting semi-conservative writer Andrew Sullivan from writing about the violence accompanying the marches lest he criticize it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 11:24:58 AM

While I'm not excusing the riots/looters, focusing on the effect of the problem instead of the cause of the problem is a tactic of deflection.
I don't think he realizes this, nor would accept it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 08, 2020, 11:26:39 AM
Most of the protesters are sticking to protesting, to the point of begging the violent ones to go away.  The police are in many cases overreacting.
Several posters have made the point about the over-militarization of police forces.  You can see it over and over again.  They're wearing armor.  They're carrying shields.  They're wearing helmets and gas masks.  They're carrying nightsticks as well as their sidearms.  At least some of the time, they aren't responding to violence, they are initiating it.  They're ready for combat before there even is combat.  They're treating the protesters as an enemy to be beaten into submission.
I hated the "kneel for the National Anthem" movement.  But if we don't agree with the legitimacy of that, and we don't agree with the legitimacy of protest marches, then what are protesters allowed to do to exercise their 1st Amendment rights?  Only stage protests in favor of what the authorities want to hear?
We've got to have law AND order.  The law protects the protesters' right to have their say.  We have to have order in our cities so that life can go on.  But too many people are acting like it's only one OR the other.
Some of these peaceful protests are only peaceful because of the presence of law enforcement.  In others words- there are two sides to every story.
does anyone really believe for example, that this supposedly peaceful protest in DC would have stopped at the gates of the White House if the law enforcement was not blocking their path?
Really?  As it is- they are cussing and demeaning and shouting in the face of the police.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 08, 2020, 11:27:01 AM
Damn. John Oliver killed it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf4cea5oObY
One of the things that I hate most about our current situation is that it makes jackasses like John Oliver right.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 11:28:00 AM
https://spectator.us/andrew-sullivan-new-york-column-riots/ (https://spectator.us/andrew-sullivan-new-york-column-riots/)

New York magazine forbids gay, Obama-supporting semi-conservative writer Andrew Sullivan from writing about the violence accompanying the marches lest he criticize it.
I haven't read his writing, but I really like him when he's been a guest on TV.  

I can't help but think if his and the editors' roles were reversed, this wouldn't be posted here, though.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 08, 2020, 11:28:45 AM
I don't think he realizes this, nor would accept it.
Nor should he.  That is a deflection the other way if a person believes the protests are out of control to begin with.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 08, 2020, 11:29:23 AM
Protests, and riots, are an explosion of pent-up anger. Looters of course are opportunists riding on top of riots.

Protests and riots about police brutality don't happen when there's not egregious examples of police brutality in the news, but the anger is under the surface because the problem is always lingering under the surface.

John Oliver's piece, primarily, was on what led to all that pent-up anger. How we got here, what we can do to fix it.

While I'm not excusing the riots/looters, focusing on the effect of the problem instead of the cause of the problem is a tactic of deflection.
His "character" definitely comes off as the pompous Brit, and some of his over the top incredulousnous can be tiring, but he does often make some good points. I think the meat of the episode was solid.
first of all looting and property damage to a community should never be tolerated and thats why we need a police force

The whole problem was the looting and property damage

It hijacked the protesters movement and thats a shame but never the less is the fact

A bad cop murdered a black man and is being prosecuted for that crime but I'll be damned if I'm going to bow down and say I have white privilege and allow you to burn my property because of it

thats whats crap

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 11:29:43 AM
  As it is- they are cussing and demeaning and shouting in the face of the police.
Seems like small potatoes, as the police keep brutalizing unarmed protesters WHILE the nation watches.  It's like they don't even get it.

Oh, and what started all of this, another unarmed murder.  So let's not bitch about demeaning and shouting....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 08, 2020, 11:30:01 AM
Coolio.

I'm okay with the head unit in our new Jeep.  It's not great, but it will do.  The speakers on the other hand are pretty bad.  Below average for sure, which is disappointing because they need to be BETTER than average to cut through the additional road noise you get in a Jeep.  The speakers on my wife's Toyota convertible were fantastic, by comparison. 
So I'm thinking new speakers will be one of our first upgrades.  Well, after the new front bumper and winch, which are already on order and en route. :)
Based on the pic, yours is also a Rubicon, right? Do you have the premium audio system? 

If so, check all the specs carefully. My first upgrade was the main speakers, which were coaxial drop-in replacements for the stock speakers made by Kicker. Everyone talked about what an upgrade they were over stock, but few people mentioned that the premium Infinity audio system in the Jeep during my years was driving all the speakers with 2 ohm output on the amp, and the Kickers were 4 ohm speakers. So I was woefully under-driving them with my system. Basically the amp which puts out 45W per channel @ 2 ohm was only giving me about half that at 4 ohm, and the speakers are rated for 75W @ 4 ohm, so I wasn't even close to driving them properly. 

That's how I ended up with a MUCH more in-depth build than I originally wanted. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 08, 2020, 11:30:10 AM
I wouldn't put it exactly that way, but, yeah.
Having plastic surgery and taking hormone treatments doesn't change anyone's sex.
Notice how "gender" (which originally just referred to categories of nouns) has replaced "sex" in our public conversation?  On applications and questionnaires, for example.
IMO, someone who believes that a man who has had the procedure you describe as some sort of woman is an example of only seeing evidence that supports one's own beliefs.
And someone like J.K. Rowling must be hounded from the public square lest people hear inconvenient and unpleasant truths.
I'm reminded of the "trans-female" invasion of girls' sports.  The "transitioning" boys somehow win all the events.
Yeah I’m reminded of that MMA fighter who was a male and then had a sex change surgery, got breast implants & had facial plastic surgery, and had female hormone therapy and then started to fight women and was beating the shit out of all the women. Joe Rogan the famous comedian, podcaster, and MMA analyst said this was wrong- that this person that “transitioned” had a big biological and physiological advantage over the women- and that it was dangerous. Of course immediately he was labeled a bigot and got attacked mercilessly by the twitter mob as a transphobe, a bigot, an alt-right white privileged sexist trans hating bigot.

These people on twitter and Facebook are just batshit crazy. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 08, 2020, 11:30:26 AM
Some of these peaceful protests are only peaceful because of the presence of law enforcement.  In others words- there are two sides to every story.
does anyone really believe for example, that this supposedly peaceful protest in DC would have stopped at the gates of the White House if the law enforcement was not blocking their path?
Really?  As it is- they are cussing and demeaning and shouting in the face of the police.
I agree that there are two sides to the story.  But I think we all believe that the people committing violent acts, looting, burning, initiating attacks on the police, should be arrested and charged with crimes.  Do we have the same expectation for police officers who go overboard?  It seems not.  It seems that many of us make excuses for them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 11:31:32 AM
Nor should he.  That is a deflection the other way if a person believes the protests are out of control to begin with. 
lol, so one's belief > the real problem


I figured as much.  Have fun with that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 08, 2020, 11:32:38 AM
A Chicago police officer was shot in the vest after responding to a domestic disturbance in the Austin neighborhood early Monday morning, authorities said.

The officer was taken to Stroger Hospital in good condition, police said.

He and other officers responded to the 500 block of North Leamington Avenue about 12:20 a.m. because a man fired a handgun three or four times during a domestic disturbance, police said.

After they arrived, the man returned to the home through the basement and fired a shot at an officer standing at the top of a staircase, police said.

The round hit the officer near his shoulder and was stopped by the officer’s protective vest. He returned fire. No one was struck.
Police chased the man and he was arrested a few blocks away, near the corner of Lake Street and Latrobe Avenue, police said.

Officers recovered a weapon.


Later, in the Englewood neighborhood, police said someone fired shots at officers about 3:35 a.m. near 72nd Street and Emerald Avenue.

No officers were hit and none returned fire. Police found the shell casings on 74th Street, around a corner onto Emerald Avenue, a little more than 45 minutes after the initial burst of gunfire.

No one was injured.



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 08, 2020, 11:32:56 AM
I haven't read his writing, but I really like him when he's been a guest on TV. 

I can't help but think if his and the editors' roles were reversed, this wouldn't be posted here, though.
How would his and his editors' roles be reversed?  They'd be ordering him to write about the riots and he'd be refusing???
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 11:35:13 AM
He'd be writing about the rioting (as you would have him do) and his editors would be wanting him to include the peaceful protests.  Simple.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 08, 2020, 11:36:27 AM
One of the things that I hate most about our current situation is that it makes jackasses like John Oliver right.
boy do we disagree on this one CW

but thats ok I still love ya
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 08, 2020, 11:38:46 AM
Seems like small potatoes, as the police keep brutalizing unarmed protesters WHILE the nation watches.  It's like they don't even get it.

Oh, and what started all of this, another unarmed murder.  So let's not bitch about demeaning and shouting....
How many police have been severely injured, or killed?  Protesters?  It is very one sided.

if there were no police present at all- do you think the violence would be more or less?

there are 2 sides.  Neither has a claim to being righteous.  When media refuses to show a cop being stabbed in a complete ambush- there is a real problem with objectivity. when they refuse to talk about brutal beatings of cops who became detached from their peers.  Of course they show every instance on the other side lol.
I saw a headline the other day: “ watch graphic video of protester being pushed by police”
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 08, 2020, 11:41:48 AM
lol, so one's belief > the real problem


I figured as much.  Have fun with that.
Your issue is- you think your beliefs are always right.  You just proved it.  

oh wisest of men- pray tell me what the REAL problem is so I can conform with the innovative thinkers in social Media.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 11:45:34 AM
Your issue is- you think your beliefs are always right.  You just proved it. 

oh wisest of men- pray tell me what the REAL problem is so I can conform with the innovative thinkers in social Media. 
Everyone thinks their beliefs are right....which is why they hold them. 

I've said this many times, but no one seems to get it - most of you have a problem with me on this precise point.  And it's honestly about me not prefacing my posts with "I think..." or "I believe...", which I avoid because they're redundant.  You know it's what I think, because I'm the one typing it and posting it.

It's not that I'm more certain of something compared to you, it's because I avoid using redundant, feaux-humble beginnings to my posts. 

You're as invested in your opinions as I am in mine.  That's not the issue here (I say again).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 08, 2020, 11:47:06 AM
I agree that there are two sides to the story.  But I think we all believe that the people committing violent acts, looting, burning, initiating attacks on the police, should be arrested and charged with crimes.  Do we have the same expectation for police officers who go overboard?  It seems not.  It seems that many of us make excuses for them.
10000% 

Which is why you’re seeing these protests last WEEKS now. I’ve never see anything like this. These protests just keep going and growing. 


For far too long the police have gotten away with murder. Literally. The people of this country are standing up and saying no more. 

It’s not a few bad apples. It never has been. It’s the entire police culture and the criminal justice system where prosecutors throw the book at an ordinary joe for the smallest of offenses just in order to get him to plea down and keep their 99% conviction rates so it looks good on paper and like they are fighting the bad guys and are tough on crime- but at the same time absolutely refuses to bring charges on police officers out of fear of losing support of police unions come election time. 

All you have to do to really see the f’ed up, keep your mouth shout and lie and cover and look the other way for your “brothers” is that tape of George Floyd being murdered. There were 3 other officers who just sat there and watched. Did nothing at all to prevent a man from being murdered. They were complicit in it. If you have a position of authority and you know someone is doing something wrong- DO SOMETHING. Police need to stop telling the public- if you see something say something- and they need to start applying it to them god damn selves. When they see bad cops or dirty cops- they need to TURN ON THOSE COPS instead of cover for them or stand by and do nothing.

Another incident showing the sick, twisted immoral culture is the incident where those two subhuman ingrates shoved a 75 year old man down for no reason and he cracked his head open. 57 riot officers immediately resigned because the two officers who shoved a 75 year old man for no reason were suspended with pay. They resigned just because of a suspension with pay. RIDICULOUS. To make matters worse the Buffalo police chief and the head of the police union immediately came out and publicly backed these two scumbags, and when they were released from jail on bond there was maybe 100 police officers outside the jail cheering them on like they were some sort of heroes.

THIS is why the shit keeps happening. It’s because of the screwed up police culture and the gutless prosecutors who only care about moving up the political latter instead of justice and holding those who abuse their power accountable.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 08, 2020, 11:50:04 AM
Everyone thinks their beliefs are right....which is why they hold them. 

I've said this many times, but no one seems to get it - most of you have a problem with me on this precise point.  And it's honestly about me not prefacing my posts with "I think..." or "I believe...", which I avoid because they're redundant.  You know it's what I think, because I'm the one typing it and posting it.

It's not that I'm more certain of something compared to you, it's because I avoid using redundant, feaux-humble beginnings to my posts. 

You're as invested in your opinions as I am in mine.  That's not the issue here (I say again).
I see two sides here ( actually many more if you incorporate degrees)

I can actually see both sides, and tons of validity in them.
often- when you accuse someone of deflection, you’re saying that you have the right answer and by not responding to that specific thing- you are deflecting
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 11:52:59 AM
I think we should treat policing like we do being a soldier, in terms of officers taking tours or shifts, then being off for awhile.  And getting them some ongoing counseling.  

Maybe if we did that, it would bleed into vets getting treated better instead of basically ignored by everyone.  

Being a cop is hard and often shitty.  You deal with the same masses that can never get their shit together, over and over, day after day.  Maybe they should work 3 months, then take 1 off, something like that.  Or 10 months a year, like most teachers.  But being in it, day after day, year after year....that's going to build up in some people and it's going to come out in bad ways.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 11:56:39 AM
I see two sides here ( actually many more if you incorporate degrees)

I can actually see both sides, and tons of validity in them.
often- when you accuse someone of deflection, you’re saying that you have the right answer and by not responding to that specific thing- you are deflecting
Well, in the current specific topic, dwelling on the rioting (which has largely ended in many places) is obvious deflection.  It's what Fox News is doing.  It's an obvious attempt to leave the police-murdering-unarmed-black-people headlines and trying to fast-forward to the okay-now-we-can-ignore-it-again, as it always inevitably happens.

Here in Phoenix, the 5th-largest city, there hasn't been rioting since that first night and the protests have only grown.  I doubt Fox is interested in that (to expose you to the other side of the coin).  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 08, 2020, 11:57:20 AM
10000%

Which is why you’re seeing these protests last WEEKS now. I’ve never see anything like this. These protests just keep going and growing.


For far too long the police have gotten away with murder. Literally. The people of this country are standing up and saying no more.

It’s not a few bad apples. It never has been. It’s the entire police culture and the criminal justice system where prosecutors throw the book at an ordinary joe for the smallest of offenses just in order to get him to plea down and keep their 99% conviction rates so it looks good on paper and like they are fighting the bad guys and are tough on crime- but at the same time absolutely refuses to bring charges on police officers out of fear of losing support of police unions come election time.

All you have to do to really see the f’ed up, keep your mouth shout and lie and cover and look the other way for your “brothers” is that tape of George Floyd being murdered. There were 3 other officers who just sat there and watched. Did nothing at all to prevent a man from being murdered. They were complicit in it. If you have a position of authority and you know someone is doing something wrong- DO SOMETHING. Police need to stop telling the public- if you see something say something- and they need to start applying it to them god damn selves. When they see bad cops or dirty cops- they need to TURN ON THOSE COPS instead of cover for them or stand by and do nothing.

Another incident showing the sick, twisted immoral culture is the incident where those two subhuman ingrates shoved a 75 year old man down for no reason and he cracked his head open. 57 riot officers immediately resigned because the two officers who shoved a 75 year old man for no reason were suspended with pay. They resigned just because of a suspension with pay. RIDICULOUS. To make matters worse the Buffalo police chief and the head of the police union immediately came out and publicly backed these two scumbags, and when they were released from jail on bond there was maybe 100 police officers outside the jail cheering them on like they were some sort of heroes.

THIS is why the shit keeps happening. It’s because of the screwed up police culture and the gutless prosecutors who only care about moving up the political latter instead of justice and holding those who abuse their power accountable.
So- let’s say a person agrees with all of this. I know MANY do.  Does this mean the disgusting death of George Floyd was not racially motivated at all?  I mean, how do we know he isn’t just a scum who hates anyone and wants to brutalize people?  Why do the media assume that the black guy who last week shot one white clerk and set the other on fire, was just a bad person but it was not racially motivated.
Why does anyone who even tries to have a dialogue about it, get completely eviscerated by the talking heads?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 08, 2020, 11:58:39 AM
I think we should treat policing like we do being a soldier, in terms of officers taking tours or shifts, then being off for awhile.  And getting them some ongoing counseling. 

Maybe if we did that, it would bleed into vets getting treated better instead of basically ignored by everyone. 

Being a cop is hard and often shitty.  You deal with the same masses that can never get their shit together, over and over, day after day.  Maybe they should work 3 months, then take 1 off, something like that.  Or 10 months a year, like most teachers.  But being in it, day after day, year after year....that's going to build up in some people and it's going to come out in bad ways. 
It’s a tough job. But it’s a job. No one makes the do it, no one makes them stay in it. If you can’t handle the heat get out the kitchen. 

And honestly there’s a lot of police officers out there that flat out just shouldn’t be police officers. They aren’t cut out for it mentally or emotionally. Anyone who gets off on having power over someone else should never in a million years be a police officer. That is a recipe for disaster. 

But I agree with your general sentiment. They should get more therapy and more time off, for sure. It’s a tough, thankless job, but it’s also a job and it’s suppose to be a service. You become a police officer because you want to protect people’s constitutional rights, not abuse those rights.

I think their should be less police officers, they should be paid more money, and we ought to end the war on drugs and reform the entire criminal justice system. Police chiefs who look the other way and Prosecutors who look the other way need to be held accountable too. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 08, 2020, 11:59:19 AM
I think we should treat policing like we do being a soldier, in terms of officers taking tours or shifts, then being off for awhile.  And getting them some ongoing counseling. 

Maybe if we did that, it would bleed into vets getting treated better instead of basically ignored by everyone. 

Being a cop is hard and often shitty.  You deal with the same masses that can never get their shit together, over and over, day after day.  Maybe they should work 3 months, then take 1 off, something like that.  Or 10 months a year, like most teachers.  But being in it, day after day, year after year....that's going to build up in some people and it's going to come out in bad ways. 
not a bad idea OAM
all it takes is money
Oh wait they are going to go the other way and defund
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 08, 2020, 11:59:56 AM
I hold a fair number of beliefs that I'm dubious about.  I recognize they may be wrong, or somewhat wrong, but they are still beliefs.  I suspect a lot of folks do that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 08, 2020, 12:02:07 PM
Well, in the current specific topic, dwelling on the rioting (which has largely ended in many places) is obvious deflection.  It's what Fox News is doing.  It's an obvious attempt to leave the police-murdering-unarmed-black-people headlines and trying to fast-forward to the okay-now-we-can-ignore-it-again, as it always inevitably happens.

Here in Phoenix, the 5th-largest city, there hasn't been rioting since that first night and the protests have only grown.  I doubt Fox is interested in that (to expose you to the other side of the coin). 
You could not be more wrong.  Their lead story online yesterday was “ the world is protesting “
they spent paragraphs talking about how peaceful they were.  They showed vid of cop being brutal.

the difference is- they also showed vid of a cop in NY- assigned to just stand on a quiet corner in case the late night brought out looters, was sneak attacked and stabbed in the neck.
I looked, all day at all of those websites. ( CNN ABC etc)
why was fox the only one that showed both?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 12:04:56 PM
So- let’s say a person agrees with all of this. I know MANY do.  Does this mean the disgusting death of George Floyd was not racially motivated at all?  I mean, how do we know he isn’t just a scum who hates anyone and wants to brutalize people?  Why do the media assume that the black guy who last week shot one white clerk and set the other on fire, was just a bad person but it was not racially motivated.
Why does anyone who even tries to have a dialogue about it, get completely eviscerated by the talking heads?
HB, what do you set the odds of you being murdered at if you used a fake $20 bill and the cashier called the cops on you about it.  
What are the odds you'd even wind up on the ground? 
What are the odds you'd even be yelled at?  
Hell, I'd put it at 50/50 that if they didn't have to put cuffs on you, they wouldn't.
What are the odds you'd even be arrested?

I ask myself those questions and based on my life experience, I'd probably be forced to forfeit the 20 bucks (obviously), have the rest of my cash checked, and I doubt I'd even be arrested.  And this guy is dead from it.  Do you see that gap?  This is the issue, man, not looting.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 08, 2020, 12:05:44 PM
So- let’s say a person agrees with all of this. I know MANY do.  Does this mean the disgusting death of George Floyd was not racially motivated at all?  I mean, how do we know he isn’t just a scum who hates anyone and wants to brutalize people?  Why do the media assume that the black guy who last week shot one white clerk and set the other on fire, was just a bad person but it was not racially motivated.
Why does anyone who even tries to have a dialogue about it, get completely eviscerated by the talking heads?
I think that's a legit question.  WAS George Floyd's killer motivated by racial animus?
We know that Chauvin is a bad actor, because he's had something like 16 previous incidents where he went over the top with violence.  Was it mostly directed toward black suspects, or is he an equal-opportunity thug in uniform?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 08, 2020, 12:08:24 PM
Did Floyd resist before being detained?  Obviously resisting gets you rougher handling, rightly or wrongly.

Certainly once he was cuffed behind his back I don't see how he could be much of a threat, he could kick I suppose.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 08, 2020, 12:10:03 PM
Did Floyd resist before being detained?  Obviously resisting gets you rougher handling, rightly or wrongly.

Certainly once he was cuffed behind his back I don't see how he could be much of a threat, he could kick I suppose.
No.   He did not resist at all
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 12:12:12 PM
Not even being arrested ---------> killed


We just need to narrow that gap.  We all agree with that, right?  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 08, 2020, 12:14:46 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/28/us/video-george-floyd-contradict-resist-trnd/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/28/us/video-george-floyd-contradict-resist-trnd/index.html)

Yeah, a quick look suggests he did not resist at all.  Apparently Floyd was falling while cuffed.  Is that somehow resisting?  Not to me.  But that's why he was on the ground, not why the LEO had his knee on his neck, which was absurd.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 08, 2020, 12:15:48 PM
HB, what do you set the odds of you being murdered at if you used a fake $20 bill and the cashier called the cops on you about it. 
What are the odds you'd even wind up on the ground?
What are the odds you'd even be yelled at? 
Hell, I'd put it at 50/50 that if they didn't have to put cuffs on you, they wouldn't.
What are the odds you'd even be arrested?

I ask myself those questions and based on my life experience, I'd probably be forced to forfeit the 20 bucks (obviously), have the rest of my cash checked, and I doubt I'd even be arrested.  And this guy is dead from it.  Do you see that gap?  This is the issue, man, not looting.
Fair question. What are the odds though, that a well educated older (58) year old man who has never been in any trouble with the law- would be in that neighborhood at all. 

I have seen police brutality a lot in live tv- it appears to know no color

now- what are the odds of a black business owner, in her mid 60s, trying to protect her jewelry shop from looters, being SEVERELY beaten by 3, very large black males? Would they have beaten her with 2x4s if she was black?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 08, 2020, 12:16:15 PM
Not even being arrested ---------> killed


We just need to narrow that gap.  We all agree with that, right? 
Yes!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 08, 2020, 12:31:41 PM
first of all looting and property damage to a community should never be tolerated and thats why we need a police force

The whole problem was the looting and property damage

It hijacked the protesters movement and thats a shame but never the less is the fact

A bad cop murdered a black man and is being prosecuted for that crime but I'll be damned if I'm going to bow down and say I have white privilege and allow you to burn my property because of it

thats whats crap
But fundamentally you have to ask how we got here... You can't single out one aspect of the "whole problem" and exclude the very thing that the protesters say is the reason for the protests.  

This isn't one isolated case--it's a pattern of abuse of minorities at the hands of police. It's a pattern of adversarial policing in the inner cities. It's a pattern of lack of oversight and accountability when abuse occurs. 

The looting and rioting is a problem, but it's not the whole problem.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 08, 2020, 12:44:23 PM
often- when you accuse someone of deflection, you’re saying that you have the right answer and by not responding to that specific thing- you are deflecting
An example of deflection would be what happened when NFL players were kneeling during the anthem. Players were demonstrating against a culture of police brutality where there are no consequences for the offenders, and everyone said "why are they against the troops?!"

The protests had some violent looting, especially at the beginning. I believe almost everywhere, that this has calmed down. I know the protests I saw on TV in LA around mid-week had no violence--it's about trying to actually get results this time. 

But when the response to everything, especially those things trying to address the root cause of the problem, go to "but what about the rioting and looters?" I call it a deflection. 

It's a bad situation, and you can't defend the rioting and looting. You can't defend the violence against business owners and cops. Those are horrible things. 

But it doesn't change the fact that we're here because of a culture of police brutality and this powder keg was touched off by an egregious murder of a black man by Minnesota cops 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 08, 2020, 12:47:35 PM
What steps could be taken quickly that would cause many protesters to believe they had "won" and got what they wanted so they stopped protesting?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 08, 2020, 12:50:26 PM
An example of deflection would be what happened when NFL players were kneeling during the anthem. Players were demonstrating against a culture of police brutality where there are no consequences for the offenders, and everyone said "why are they against the troops?!"

The protests had some violent looting, especially at the beginning. I believe almost everywhere, that this has calmed down. I know the protests I saw on TV in LA around mid-week had no violence--it's about trying to actually get results this time.

But when the response to everything, especially those things trying to address the root cause of the problem, go to "but what about the rioting and looters?" I call it a deflection.

It's a bad situation, and you can't defend the rioting and looting. You can't defend the violence against business owners and cops. Those are horrible things.

But it doesn't change the fact that we're here because of a culture of police brutality and this powder keg was touched off by an egregious murder of a black man by Minnesota cops
first of all I dont think we have a culture of police brutality but its still a shame that peaceful protests and their message was hijacked by those who dont like this country and would do it harm 

also the leaders of the protests did little to distance themselves from the violence and often times encouraged it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 08, 2020, 01:00:29 PM
What steps could be taken quickly that would cause many protesters to believe they had "won" and got what they wanted so they stopped protesting?


Some bill was introduced in the House today??
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 01:02:02 PM
An example of deflection would be what happened when NFL players were kneeling during the anthem. Players were demonstrating against a culture of police brutality where there are no consequences for the offenders, and everyone said "why are they against the troops?!"
Perfect example.  
If they don't understand this, forget it.  Willful ignorance.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 01:02:52 PM
first of all I dont think we have a culture of police brutality 
I'm guessing you aren't black.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 08, 2020, 01:06:19 PM
Don't forget the president called them sons of bitches. I've actually been surprised at how much unity has sprouted up around these protests.  Talking about racism in this country is often an exercise in people not wanting to deal with history. This feels like somewhat of a change in attitude about it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 08, 2020, 01:06:29 PM
The police department here is more black than the city is.  Are they racist?  Or is this something else?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 08, 2020, 01:15:54 PM
I'm guessing you aren't black.
and Im guessing you are

oh wait a minute you told us that up front
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 01:19:18 PM
and Im guessing you are

oh wait a minute you told us that up front
Nope, white as.....a white person.
I just possess empathy.  Try it sometime.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 08, 2020, 01:20:25 PM
This is interesting.

https://www.oann.com/statistics-reveal-police-shoot-and-kill-twice-as-many-white-suspects-as-african-american-suspects/ (https://www.oann.com/statistics-reveal-police-shoot-and-kill-twice-as-many-white-suspects-as-african-american-suspects/)


I wonder if it's true.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 08, 2020, 01:21:19 PM
I just possess empathy.  Try it sometime.
I just can't relate to that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 01:21:51 PM
The police department here is more black than the city is.  Are they racist?  Or is this something else?
I don't think anyone here has suggested it's solely racism.  There is a real, ingrained issue with policing in our country.  I find it probable that black officers see black citizens in a similar light as white officers do.  

And while I haven't researched it, I still figure black officers KILL UNARMED black citizens at a far lower rate.  What do you think?  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 01:23:52 PM
This is interesting.

https://www.oann.com/statistics-reveal-police-shoot-and-kill-twice-as-many-white-suspects-as-african-american-suspects/ (https://www.oann.com/statistics-reveal-police-shoot-and-kill-twice-as-many-white-suspects-as-african-american-suspects/)


I wonder if it's true.
This is bordering on racist. 
If there's 4x as many white people as black, then promoting whites are killed by police twice as often isn't making your point.
Also, I don't see the word "unarmed" anywhere here.  Why is that being ignored? 

I'm going to assume you didn't consider those things and give you the benefit of the doubt.  You know, like how an officer would if you were committing a crime.

badge847, I have too much respect for you to believe you linked anything from that site on purpose.  You're better than that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 08, 2020, 01:26:02 PM
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jun/05/larry-elder/larry-elder-mislabels-statistics-fatal-shootings-p/ (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jun/05/larry-elder/larry-elder-mislabels-statistics-fatal-shootings-p/)

There aren't enough unarmed citizens shot and killed by police each year to have much of a statistical basis for any subgroup analysis.

If you broaden to including deaths caused by other than shooting, we don't have data apparently.

According to the Washington Post data through June 3 (https://web.archive.org/web/20200603033015/https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/), police in the line of duty fatally shot 10 unarmed black people and 20 unarmed white people in 2019. (The data is updated as new facts emerge, and by June 5 the numbers jumped (https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/) to 15 unarmed blacks and 25 unarmed whites.)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 08, 2020, 01:28:19 PM
Nope, white as.....a white person.
I just possess empathy.  Try it sometime.
sorry OAM but I dont believe you

not that theres anything wrong with being black

I have post that disclaimer or folks would think Im a racist
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 08, 2020, 01:31:25 PM
I just wonder if the numbers were true. 50% white, 25% black, 25% Hispanic (20% of the population).

I'm aware of the US demographics. I was just surprised by the numbers given. I would not have guessed that, for reasons noted elsewhere in this thread.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 08, 2020, 01:32:07 PM
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jun/05/larry-elder/larry-elder-mislabels-statistics-fatal-shootings-p/ (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jun/05/larry-elder/larry-elder-mislabels-statistics-fatal-shootings-p/)

There aren't enough unarmed citizens shot and killed by police each year to have much of a statistical basis for any subgroup analysis.

If you broaden to including deaths caused by other than shooting, we don't have data apparently.

According to the Washington Post data through June 3 (https://web.archive.org/web/20200603033015/https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/), police in the line of duty fatally shot 10 unarmed black people and 20 unarmed white people in 2019. (The data is updated as new facts emerge, and by June 5 the numbers jumped (https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/) to 15 unarmed blacks and 25 unarmed whites.)
what is not said is how many officiers were being attacked when the shooting occurred 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 01:32:49 PM
sorry OAM but I dont believe you

not that theres anything wrong with being black

I have post that disclaimer or folks would think Im a racist
You don't believe I'm the race that I am?  
Funnnnnn.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 08, 2020, 01:33:37 PM
OAM explained many years ago that he is white and the reason for his moniker here.  I believe him entirely.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 08, 2020, 01:33:57 PM
You don't believe I'm the race that I am? 
Funnnnnn.
nope I believe youre black
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 08, 2020, 01:35:01 PM
OAM explained many years ago that he is white and the reason for his moniker here.  I believe him entirely.
well thats good enough for me

OAM you are white

glad we got that out of the way
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 08, 2020, 01:35:16 PM
From The Dispatch:

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 01:35:57 PM
well thats good enough for me

OAM you are white

glad we got that out of the way
Don't be a dipshit.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 08, 2020, 01:38:47 PM
He'd be writing about the rioting (as you would have him do) and his editors would be wanting him to include the peaceful protests.  Simple.
Do you always have to attribute bad faith to anyone who disagrees with you?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 08, 2020, 01:38:55 PM
From The Dispatch:
  • Nine members of Minneapolis’s City Council—a veto-proof majority—announced their intention (https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJwlUEmOwyAQfE24BRmIlxw4zGW-YbG0MTMYPNDI8e8HJ1Kreu9Sl1EILuVT7qkgqQXy7K188KcY2UhaZNnUT8SXeckAm_JBYq5A9qqDNwp9itcC73v2JKsU03M0wsJixTIoNlj20INQSvdW9TAJctHMqloP0YBMMZzvwyTIFXEvN_F149_NjuOgJkZq0tYy3vGuuW64YGxQSwMHKTu4LyGd9r7nhFCw3EuNVp2t7aOFF11xC8TL60I3dBNjjLORMrrEYXqxon_c3-3RbY7TUnVBZX4vTpJlVtFSnb1zpQ0UbVxIWgUaAa_v5za11ejxnCEqHcB-hMGPku8_8dxBRjhKAETIn2JTqxe8EyNphDY1SaPcUo4-OuvLrtCs_-ljiq8) to “disband” the city’s police department, vowing to replace it with a “new model of public safety.” Details of the proposal remain fuzzy, however. “The idea of having no police department is certainly not in the short term,” City Council President Lisa Bender said.
  • On Friday, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said the organization (https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJwlkM1yhSAMhZ_mstMB_EEXLLrpazgIAWkRLMSxvn2xd4aEwBySw6cVgkv5lkcqSM4CefFG9nzuBBOkVoZNw0R8WWwG2JUPEvMJ5DjX4LVCn-LzgA8Dm8kmLZ0nxuwwWTpOVhjRUQYrE1YN_Tj3A3nGLOo0HqIGmWK4_xuTIDfEo7y6jxf_rOu6rhbKEVud9nqMNtRcsDqt-1LDm5r4zMXIRPco0tUEXxCij67JyUFuXEoGQmg2yNBc6i5N7dOAtaCx0ZuKDoiXnHJKR1p9M85Ey1obx-mXlfXL_bx6ujvelnMtqPT344ZkmVU07Zq9c6UKyqpdSKsKbQR8wCxVtZ_R471AVGsA82aGb8j_CPA-QEa4SgBEyO_LCnLoOO0EqQNNqrSj3FN-fmR8ORTq7Q9LXZPI) was “wrong in not listening to players” like Colin Kaepernick who protested racism and police brutality. Goodell’s apology was posted a day after the release of a different video (https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJwlUEmOxCAMfE1zjFiyceAwl_lGxOKkmSGQBqOe_H5IR7LksmWXXWU1wpbyqY5UkNQCefFO9VyKiU2kIcfmYSa-LGsG2LUPCnMFclQTvNXoU7wW-DAwSZ4KwK7DBFIwbXgvpePMtkStEM6JVZDrzKKr8xAtqBTD-SEmQT0Rj_IQXw_-3QLfHhFyZ9PeqqJfNcULoMZaGmB8nCcqeT-Os5ikHAZBvOKUUzrSmTHG2dSxbo3j_MeK-dlej57uG-9KNY3E_l7MJKuso-tM9ttW2kAxdgvJ6NBFwEvj0qb2Gj2eC0RtArhbPt5-fdTgeYCK8C4BrpfvZvNkEJyKibSDLjXjotpTjj5uzpdDo33-A57rgEU) in which a number of prominent black football players called on the NFL to take a stronger stance against racism.
  • At least a dozen Texas county GOP chairs have shared bigoted conspiracies about the death of George Floyd and the protests that have followed, including claims that Floyd’s death was staged to hurt Donald Trump’s re-election prospects, according to a report (https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJwlUMuOwyAM_JpyCwJSkvTAYS_7GxEPl7BLIAuO0vz9klayxpY145HHagSfy6m2XJHsFcocnLqLRz_ykbTJ8UlOJNT5WQBWHaLCsgPZdhOD1RhyugRCSv4gi5q0ZpZJJqAf7AiST0IMYhqZlnbsGSOXzax3FyBZUDnF832YRLUgbvXWf93Ed6vjOCjCS1cswewJaC6-rQUTrDU2XCAbvDmdz1tnFx1K7Yq2oWLnoQmge8Z8ukYjQV1SNrCJcy74SDl9pmF68Wp-_N_tzlYvaN1NRW1_qc0rKaro5KgpwfvaCNVYH7PRkSbA6_-5sdY9BTxnSNpEcJ9o8JPl-1M8N1AJjhoBEcpn2fKSvWD9SJqhyy3UpNZcUkjehbpptMs_4BOKXQ) in the Texas Tribune. Gov. Greg Abbott and some other state Republican leaders have denounced the claims.
  • A new NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll sheds some light on the national mood: Eight out of 10 American voters believe that (https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJwlUEmSwyAMfE04uhDe4MBhLvmGiy0OMyweEJXx7wcnVTq0ulpqqY1Ct-dyyiNXJK26snkrJybGFVbSkQU-c-Lr9ijOReWDxNIcOZoO3ij0OV0DbJ5BkKfU1qplZIxPlHIO4zxRZR4CVrqs0wKKXDabata7ZJzMKZzvxSTIJ-JRb-PXjd174csjujKYHHsXYytFnUcOHr2pnamosF0A2CIWmKngYpoEX2FciZeMMkoXygGAwTrA8EgL_4Oqv_ff20TjzobadF9ifi4LUmRRyQ66-H2vXVC12UPWKgzJ4fXs1lWxJY_n5pLSwdlPDvgJ7v0WnoeTyb1qcNftH7KHM4-M9qu6oc09wSRjLsmn3fp6KDTPf7F-gx0) “things are out of control in the nation.” Meanwhile, 59 percent are more concerned (https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJwlUEmSwyAMfE04ugAv4AOHueQbLhbFYYbFA6Iy_v3gpKRDSyV1S201wp7LqY5ckbQKZfNOTXwdBROkI8fkLImv26MARO2DwtKAHM0EbzX6nK4FPs9sJU81TwaWiTImxCrkskgtBGjh6Co5fVBKLplNN-chWVA5hfNNTIJ6Ih71Nn7d-L0nvjwilMHm2KsYWyn6PHLw6G3tnYoa2wUYX9aFzf0AutKlh2TEK045fWPGOBMDGx5pkX-smu_99zbRuPOhNtNJ7M8lQYoqOrnBFL_vtQ9UY_eQjQ5DArye3fpUbMnjuUHSJoD7-IAf495v4XmASvCqAa7bP81uzjxyOgrSBV3uDiYVc0k-7c7XQ6N9_gN_YYLs) about police brutality and George Floyd’s death than they are about protests becoming violent, compared with 27 percent who say the opposite.


CW I can site you polls with overwhelming support for the police

I am real curious to see what happens going forward in Minn
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 08, 2020, 01:40:14 PM
Don't be a dipshit. 
sorry OAM thats just in my blood burnt orange as it may be
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 01:41:17 PM
Do you always have to attribute bad faith to anyone who disagrees with you?
I was explaining something he didn't understand.  

Sigh.
If I seemingly always attribute bad faith to those I disagree with, then how do I find the time to be arrogant and dismiss them as incompetent?!?  

Which is it????
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 08, 2020, 01:42:58 PM
Everyone thinks their beliefs are right....which is why they hold them. 

I've said this many times, but no one seems to get it - most of you have a problem with me on this precise point.  And it's honestly about me not prefacing my posts with "I think..." or "I believe...", which I avoid because they're redundant.  You know it's what I think, because I'm the one typing it and posting it.

It's not that I'm more certain of something compared to you, it's because I avoid using redundant, feaux-humble beginnings to my posts. 

You're as invested in your opinions as I am in mine.  That's not the issue here (I say again).
Saying "I think" or "in my opinion" is a social convention.  Like good manners are.  Like saying "please" and "thank you."  When you refuse to demonstrate good manners because it takes too much time and energy, your readers may have a tendency to read you other than how you intend to be read.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 08, 2020, 01:43:39 PM
I was explaining something he didn't understand. 

Sigh.
If I seemingly always attribute bad faith to those I disagree with, then how do I find the time to be arrogant and dismiss them as incompetent?!? 

Which is it????
Two sides of the same coin, I think.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 08, 2020, 01:50:02 PM
An example of deflection would be what happened when NFL players were kneeling during the anthem. Players were demonstrating against a culture of police brutality where there are no consequences for the offenders, and everyone said "why are they against the troops cops?!"

The protests had some violent looting, especially at the beginning. I believe almost everywhere, that this has calmed down. I know the protests I saw on TV in LA around mid-week had no violence--it's about trying to actually get results this time.

But when the response to everything, especially those things trying to address the root cause of the problem, go to "but what about the rioting and looters?" I call it a deflection.

It's a bad situation, and you can't defend the rioting and looting. You can't defend the violence against business owners and cops. Those are horrible things.

But it doesn't change the fact that we're here because of a culture of police brutality and this powder keg was touched off by an egregious murder of a black man by Minnesota cops
Other than the one fix, right on the money.  Tulsa had two nights of violence--mostly by white punks whom the protesters were begging to leave--but that was it.  We've had more than a week of peaceful protests since.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 01:52:33 PM
When you refuse to demonstrate good manners because it takes too much time and energy, your readers may have a tendency to read you other than how you intend to be read.
This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read.  
I guess I'm on the other side of the coin now, huh?  


I'm going to paraphrase your post:  Being direct and omitting the niceties or fluff may make your reader misunderstand your content.


WHAT THE WHAT?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 01:53:51 PM
Other than the one fix, right on the money.  Tulsa had two nights of violence--mostly by white punks whom the protesters were begging to leave--but that was it.  We've had more than a week of peaceful protests since.
I hope we find out who those white guys dressed all in black were - and what % were antifa and what % were far righties.  
Both extremist ends of the spectrum can go to hell.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 08, 2020, 01:55:34 PM
I hope we find out who those white guys dressed all in black were - and what % were antifa and what % were far righties. 
Both extremist ends of the spectrum can go to hell.
white or black we need to prosecute if they committed violence
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 08, 2020, 01:59:17 PM
As noted, I believe, and it's just my opinion, that ALL OF US have opinions about which we are not certain.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 08, 2020, 02:10:40 PM

Both extremist ends of the spectrum can go to hell.
I agree. We are letting 1% of our population tear the country apart.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 08, 2020, 02:30:10 PM
I agree. We are letting 1% of our population tear the country apart.
well maybe if the Media didnt scream this shit all day we might feel differently
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 02:31:26 PM
white or black we need to prosecute if they committed violence
Does that include calmly shattering windows to businesses, then walking away?  If so, I agree.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 02:32:17 PM
well maybe if the Media didnt scream this shit all day we might feel differently

They do it for eyeballs, and it works.  And they care about eyeballs for advertisers.  Because $$$.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 02:33:05 PM
I thought the 'pew-pew' thread was becoming useful.  Oh well.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 08, 2020, 02:35:00 PM
We are leaving for Illinois on Wednesday. I'm going to miss it here, but when we come back in October, it will be a completely new house.

The sale of my boat actually fell through, so we'll be using that quite a bit this summer. I just need to decide if I want that boat down here, or something different. It's not a boat that's meant to fish on, which I would like to do.

My contingent offer on a Tiara 31 Open is now off the table. Oh well. At least my boat is pretty.

(https://i.imgur.com/bZ2wxqW.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 08, 2020, 02:37:29 PM
We had one bad night here of looting, but very little since, and the arrests totals have gone to near zero.  The curfew was lifted.  The odd thing about the looting is there is not much to loot downtown.  Someone tried to get into a jewelry store but all the merch was locked away.  Someone broke windows at some restaurants, which of course doesn't offer much chance to loot anything useful.  I was concerned that Friday night a week back, our front desk guy said not to worry.  I offered to sit with him if he wanted.  

Our entrance has a lot of glass, but once in the lobby you need a key fob to use the elevators or the stairs, and our unit doors are substantial.

Maybe the looting types all came out and got nabbed and the only folks left are protesters.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 08, 2020, 02:46:16 PM
I predict the Justice Dept will bring charges against certain individuals concerning the violence

Just a hunch no actual facts
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 08, 2020, 02:59:54 PM
This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. 
I guess I'm on the other side of the coin now, huh? 


I'm going to paraphrase your post:  Being direct and omitting the niceties or fluff may make your reader misunderstand your content.


WHAT THE WHAT?
See, what you call "niceties or fluff" is what some others would call "good manners."
An occasional admission that most of what you say is opinion rather than assertion of fact would probably soothe some ruffled feathers.
Good manners are to a great degree just an unspoken agreement that we all abide by some originally arbitrary behaviors.  We have fewer of those than a lot of cultures who speak different languages do.  Bilingual (English-Spanish) telephone salespeople take much longer handling conversations with Spanish-speakers because of all the conversational courtesies in Spanish/Hispanophone culture.  We have far fewer in American English.  But we've still got some.  And an occasional "IMO" or "JMODMIR" is a way of unintentionally offending people.  Now, if you like intentionally offending people, and you enjoy the ensuing arguments that ensue over how the readers have misconstrued what you are trying to say, then, by all means, continue to state your opinions as if they were assertions of fact.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 08, 2020, 03:04:01 PM
I predict the Justice Dept will bring charges against certain individuals concerning the violence

Just a hunch no actual facts
Most crimes of violence and looting aren't federal offenses.  So I suspect most of the charging will be done at state/local level.  Interstate crime/conspiracies bring the feds in, though.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 08, 2020, 03:38:34 PM
Most crimes of violence and looting aren't federal offenses.  So I suspect most of the charging will be done at state/local level.  Interstate crime/conspiracies bring the feds in, though.
unless its a national group acting in a domestic terrorist fashion

crossing state lines to commit violence
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 08, 2020, 03:46:33 PM
unless its a national group acting in a domestic terrorist fashion
Yeah, I think if they cross state lines, it becomes Federal. Like that asshat from Illinois who went to Minneapolis.


(https://i.imgur.com/jbp3gdA.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 08, 2020, 04:31:18 PM
Yeah, I think if they cross state lines, it becomes Federal. Like that asshat from Illinois who went to Minneapolis.


[img width=500 height=191.997]https://i.imgur.com/jbp3gdA.png[/img]
fine upstanding man


I'd hire him
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 08, 2020, 04:41:31 PM
I agree. We are letting 1% of our population tear the country apart.
Amen. It’s always the fringes that have the loudest voices and get the most media attention, but when in reality hardly anyone in real life agrees with them. 

I welcome free speech and I hate censorship. I truly believe anyone should have the right to say anything they want. They are just words. Words cannot kill you. Free speech was intended to protect speech you don’t like. These people today thinking they can tell people what to say and not say and that everyone should have safe spaces and the right not to be offended- blows my mind. 

Violence, theft, and destruction of property is where you lose me. I am 100% against those things, and I’m pretty sure vast majority of Americans are as well. 

I honestly blame the media for fanning the flames and trying to incite hatred and division in this country. Killer Mike’s speech to the people of Atlanta was awesome and he called out CNN right in it. Told them Karma is a mother- and to stop fanning the flames of division and hatred.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 06:32:56 PM
Just a hunch no actual facts
This should be your signature.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 06:34:00 PM
See, what you call "niceties or fluff" is what some others would call "good manners."
Sorry, I refuse to believe that being direct and efficient with my words is impolite.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 08, 2020, 06:35:22 PM
I do hope the Minneapolis PD is required to pay for for all those tires they slashed. Jack wagons. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 08, 2020, 06:52:37 PM
https://youtu.be/Vj7D4-VLZlQ


Different,insightful take double dog dare ya to watch the whole thing - brutally honest
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 08, 2020, 07:11:59 PM
This should be your signature.
OAM were you born a jackass or did you kinda grow into one
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 08, 2020, 07:23:36 PM


20 Mule Team Baby!Let's effectionately call him Eeyore
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 08, 2020, 07:26:13 PM
https://youtu.be/Vj7D4-VLZlQ


Different,insightful take double dog dare ya to watch the whole thing - brutaly honest
Truth is that absolutely nothing about George Floyd's rap sheet justifies what was done to him. Derek Chauvin did this without looking up his rap sheet. Three additional officers did nothing to stop it without looking up his rap sheet. 

I don't think I've looked at any of this thinking that George Floyd was a model human being or not--it was irrelevant, because nothing in the course of that stop by police justified his death. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 08, 2020, 07:35:06 PM
Did you watch it ? she makes that point and much more,nobdy said he deserved death but he was jacked up on some shyt though and had rap sheet and a lot of time in the slammer .She's tired of the resulting hypocrisy and bad look it gives good citizens - much of what is media driven
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 08, 2020, 07:53:51 PM
When I see the calls for law and order, I sometimes wonder if perspectives would change if that law and order were actually visited upon you. 

Not the getting killed part, but the sort of baseline indignities. Like if you were pulled out of your car and patted down at traffic stops on multiple occasions, or found yourself at gunpoint because you "looked like a suspect" at the AD at New Orleans did at some point (he told them to go fish out his wallet because we wasn't about to reach near his waistband for obvious reasons). 

Anyway, perhaps if we were on the wrong end of some of the more aggressive elements of law and order, we'd feel differently. Being on the wrong end of a power dynamic is rarely pleasant, even when you're in the wrong (esp. if you're not). 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 08, 2020, 07:57:24 PM
Did you watch it ? she makes that point and much more,nobdy said he deserved death but he was jacked up on some shyt though and had rap sheet and a lot of time in the slammer .She's tired of the resulting hypocrisy and bad look it gives good citizens - much of what is media driven
Yep. He was not a good person. 

What's the "bad look it gives good citizens"? (I'm not watching 18 minutes of that lady)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 08, 2020, 08:08:19 PM
She pointed out out about the protesting - rioting didn't have any basis for the path it took.She brought up the Black on Black murders where are all the protesting then?That her race was certainly just as guilty as anyone to make excuses for violence or rioting.*Talked about the Black officer killed in the line of duty by who?* Where is the justice there or Al Sharpton for that matter.Very dialed in addressing the hypocrisy honestly
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 08:11:42 PM
Did you watch it ? she makes that point and much more,nobdy said he deserved death but he was jacked up on some shyt though and had rap sheet and a lot of time in the slammer .
You're distusting.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 08, 2020, 08:26:01 PM
She pointed out out about the protesting - rioting didn't have any basis for the path it took.She brought up the Black on Black murders where are all the protesting then?That her race was certainly just as guilty as anyone to make excuses for violence or rioting.*Talked about the Black officer killed in the line of duty by who?* Where is the justice there or Al Sharpton for that matter.Very dialed in addressing the hypocrisy honestly
This sounds mostly boilerplate. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 08, 2020, 08:30:58 PM
You're distusting.
You can be taken deep into the woods and disembowled with a wooden spoon you tainted waif.I was in Cleveland last week and I hope those fine fellas pay your mothers neighborhood a visit real soon.You fucking little hypocrite
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 08:32:55 PM
How revealing.  :67:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 08, 2020, 08:38:43 PM
This sounds mostly boilerplate.
Truth usually is kill the asshole cop - but that other bullshit is what was addressed.And I'd say she is more dialed in to than you - she's been in the belly of the beast.And twice in my life granted many year ago I was on the wrong end of Police force.I was fortunate as they didn't get me though,some of my friends not so much.No one got murdered seriously smacked around - for nothing really.But that was before dash board cameras.I did find out many years later one of the cops got a .357 slug - I'd tell the rest but you don't like long stories
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 08, 2020, 08:40:03 PM
How revealing.  :67:
Eeyore you've already caused your own thread to get locked - shooting for a personell best of two in one day Keyboard Kommando?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 08:46:59 PM
I wonder which post here would get it locked...

you want me killed in the woods in an unpleasant way,

you want rioters to find my dead mother,

and you called me a hypocrite without specifying why.  THAT is the worst one.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 08, 2020, 09:12:10 PM
I wonder which post here would get it locked...

you want me killed in the woods in an unpleasant way,

you want rioters to find my dead mother,

and you called me a hypocrite without specifying why.  THAT is the worst one.
Just today Brutus and 320 obviously had taken offense to your aspergers fueled umbrage.I'm disgusting for agreeing with a young black womans view of what the problem is - and you of anyone in the free world call someone else disgusting when you didn't listen to her tear a simpleton like yourself bloated theories apart.Let's start back about three years ago when somehow a polluted disgrunltled rube like you convinced yourself any one would look forward to your carnival barking on the Big Ten Board.P-o-o-or Baby gets a shit sandwich shoved back in his/her puss as fast as it was served.Go haunt someone elses discussions board.Why don't you get all gussied up in your Who farted T-Shirt and head out
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2020, 09:22:59 PM
I assume you're disgusting for many reasons, but the one I quoted was that you thought his rap sheet matters.  
THAT is disgusting.  You're in the wrong, in the minority, and now revealing your true nature.

I get to tell you to grow up.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 08, 2020, 09:28:31 PM
I assume you're disgusting for many reasons, but the one I quoted was that you thought his rap sheet matters. 
THAT is disgusting.  You're in the wrong, in the minority, and now revealing your true nature.

I get to tell you to grow up. 
OAM why do you put up with us

I mean we are obviously racist assholes 

theres got to be better boards that suit your views
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 08, 2020, 09:32:23 PM
I assume you're disgusting for many reasons, but the one I quoted was that you thought his rap sheet matters. 
THAT is disgusting.  You're in the wrong, in the minority, and now revealing your true nature.

I get to tell you to grow up. 
Asshole riots happened right down the road.How the hell did you get a teaching degree when comprehension is your obvious problem.I said they should execute the murder a least 4 x in the last two weeks - if i go back and fetch those quotes - would you then get lost then.Listen methane cloud waft over to the sanitary retaining pond from whence you belched and hover there
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on June 08, 2020, 09:32:51 PM
Truth is that absolutely nothing about George Floyd's rap sheet justifies what was done to him. Derek Chauvin did this without looking up his rap sheet. Three additional officers did nothing to stop it without looking up his rap sheet.

I don't think I've looked at any of this thinking that George Floyd was a model human being or not--it was irrelevant, because nothing in the course of that stop by police justified his death.


I mean literally no reasonable, sane person believes he deserved to die. No one. But we have schools starting scholarships in his name. Wtf is that about?  He certainly didn’t deserve to die but he also certainly never did anything to merit that either.  There is no reason to make him into a martyr.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 08, 2020, 09:44:45 PM
I mean literally no reasonable, sane person believes he deserved to die. No one. But we have schools starting scholarships in his name. Wtf is that about?  He certainly didn’t deserve to die but he also certainly never did anything to merit that either.  There is no reason to make him into a martyr.
Here is your martyr


https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/03/us/david-dorn-st-louis-police-shot-trnd/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/03/us/david-dorn-st-louis-police-shot-trnd/index.html)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 08, 2020, 09:48:48 PM
She pointed out out about the protesting - rioting didn't have any basis for the path it took.She brought up the Black on Black murders where are all the protesting then?That her race was certainly just as guilty as anyone to make excuses for violence or rioting.*Talked about the Black officer killed in the line of duty by who?* Where is the justice there or Al Sharpton for that matter.Very dialed in addressing the hypocrisy honestly
Mrs. 847 and I discussed that tonight.

Chicago saw its deadliest weekend on record, just now. Where is Jesse? Where is Al? Apparently black lives don't matter when there is black on black violence.

I have no words. I would like answers. NOW.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 08, 2020, 09:56:41 PM
Can't we all get along?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 08, 2020, 10:00:04 PM
But out👍 Be careful 847 the luminary OAM will start lumping you in with unfortunate's like my self who can't grasp the smashing validity of his proclomations
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 08, 2020, 11:14:36 PM
Mrs. 847 and I discussed that tonight.

Chicago saw its deadliest weekend on record, just now. Where is Jesse? Where is Al? Apparently black lives don't matter when there is black on black violence.

I have no words. I would like answers. NOW.
This is a false equivalency. One has nothing to do with the other. We are talking about two completely separate issues.

Police are supposed to be held to a higher standard than your ordinary citizen. They are there to serve and protect. It’s suppose to be a form of public service. They have great power, and with great power comes great responsibility.

You sort of expect drug gangs to murder one another for no reason. You don’t expect the police to be murdering people for no reason.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 08, 2020, 11:18:25 PM
No you don't expect violence like that on that scale - it's murder where is the outrage - it's a life snuffed out.Should never be accepted as just another night
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 08, 2020, 11:21:47 PM
No you don't expect violence like that on that scale - it's murder where is the outrage - it's a life snuffed out.Should never be accepted as just another night
It’s drug gangs in poverty stricken neighborhoods snuffing each other out. It should not be tolerated, but it’s kinda sorta to be expected. Chicago went through this sort of shit during the prohibition of alcohol. There was this guy named Al Capone, who was murdering his opponents in the alcohol bootleg game on a daily basis. Ever heard of him? 

Get rid of the stupid war on drugs and that drug black market evaporates overnight and the excessive violence does with it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on June 08, 2020, 11:34:21 PM
This is a false equivalency. One has nothing to do with the other. We are talking about two completely separate issues.

Police are supposed to be held to a higher standard than your ordinary citizen. They are there to serve and protect. It’s suppose to be a form of public service. They have great power, and with great power comes great responsibility.

You sort of expect drug gangs to murder one another for no reason. You don’t expect the police to be murdering people for no reason.
And they largely do serve and protect.  Look, we all agree that when it comes to death or harm at the hand of a cop that any number above zero is too many but how often are cops really murdering people for no reason?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 08, 2020, 11:58:50 PM
Mrs. 847 and I discussed that tonight.

Chicago saw its deadliest weekend on record, just now. Where is Jesse? Where is Al? Apparently black lives don't matter when there is black on black violence.

I have no words. I would like answers. NOW.
I mean, the simple answer is you protest against government that isn't working in a manner you think it should. You don't protest against street violence because it is not in theory answerable to the public at large. 

I know Al made a series of efforts, none of which has worked. I have no idea on Jesse, though I assume his son tired some things, which also didn't work. I'd assume part of it is that neither man is particularly good at stopping violence, which is why both are more of figureheads or charlatans who I don't take all that seriously. 

In the end, cycles of poverty and violence, the challenge with socializing people out of insular places they grew, these problems are massive and in many instances intractable. High investment in policing hasn't helped. Sets of programs haven't worked. It's a thing folks need to keep working on. 

But in the end, the black on black violence is a commonly used distraction. The people doing that killing are not people who answer to the public at large. It's a tragedy, but one that has to be met with different, less-direct actions. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 09, 2020, 12:10:46 AM


But in the end, the black on black violence is a commonly used distraction. The people doing that killing are not people who answer to the public at large. It's a tragedy, but one that has to be met with different, less-direct actions.
not all black lives matter

the only black lives that matter is any that were killed by the police

Chicago had 18 black men die in one day from black on black crime but I guess since the police were not involved they didnt matter
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 09, 2020, 12:58:03 AM
not all black lives matter

the only black lives that matter is any that were killed by the police

Chicago had 18 black men die in one day from black on black crime but I guess since the police were not involved they didnt matter
They matter plenty. Deaths are tragedies, though I suppose if some of them died at the hands of police, they'd be labeled bad guys. 

But in the end, it's a distraction. If something galls you, there are many other things that could also gall you. But it does not make this particular thing galling you illegitimate.

Shoot, in the 1960s, I'm sure malnutrition was an issue in black communities in the south. But weirdly we remember the people who fought for the right to vote rather than the people who ignored hungry kids. 

(The backing of police is sometimes odd to me. It's basically the ultimate faith in the government, usually from people who seem least interested in trusting the government. Oh well.)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 09, 2020, 01:23:40 AM
Sorry, I refuse to believe that being direct and efficient with my words is impolite.
But you have posted several times that you don't understand why people keep misconstruing what you mean just because you don't make it clear that you are just stating your opinion and not asserting fact.
Communication takes two--the sender and the recipient.  If the recipients keep misunderstanding what you as the sender mean to say, perhaps the problem is more with what you are sending than how they are receiving it.
That seems quite clear to me.  But you will keep on thinking that it's everybody else's fault and not yours.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 09, 2020, 01:25:16 AM
OAM were you born a jackass or did you kinda grow into one
320: You may be another one of the many who just misunderstand OAM for some reason.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 09, 2020, 01:39:08 AM
I mean, the simple answer is you protest against government that isn't working in a manner you think it should. You don't protest against street violence because it is not in theory answerable to the public at large.

I know Al made a series of efforts, none of which has worked. I have no idea on Jesse, though I assume his son tired some things, which also didn't work. I'd assume part of it is that neither man is particularly good at stopping violence, which is why both are more of figureheads or charlatans who I don't take all that seriously.

In the end, cycles of poverty and violence, the challenge with socializing people out of insular places they grew, these problems are massive and in many instances intractable. High investment in policing hasn't helped. Sets of programs haven't worked. It's a thing folks need to keep working on.

But in the end, the black on black violence is a commonly used distraction. The people doing that killing are not people who answer to the public at large. It's a tragedy, but one that has to be met with different, less-direct actions.
Is "Al" the Rev. Sharpton?  Has he tried to stop violence at any point?  Last time I paid attention to him, he was siccing his mob on the Jews of Crown Heights.  And then before that was the Tawana Brawley hoax.

I know I'm just hitting on his high (or is it low?) points, but, seriously, has he done any good works?  I know he's been fined several times for not paying his taxes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 09, 2020, 06:45:23 AM
It’s drug gangs in poverty stricken neighborhoods snuffing each other out. It should not be tolerated, but it’s kinda sorta to be expected. Chicago went through this sort of shit during the prohibition of alcohol. There was this guy named Al Capone, who was murdering his opponents in the alcohol bootleg game on a daily basis. Ever heard of him?
When was the public rioting burning buildings/police vehicles for or against Al Capone.I'm fairly certain what would have happened if looters headed into Big Al's neighborhood,the Police would have been the least of their problems.They used the Chicago Typewriter on a daily bases.Ever here of it?And that's where this may/will be headed your damn lucky that wasn't your business.
 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 09, 2020, 08:18:56 AM
This is a false equivalency. One has nothing to do with the other. We are talking about two completely separate issues.

Police are supposed to be held to a higher standard than your ordinary citizen. They are there to serve and protect. It’s suppose to be a form of public service. They have great power, and with great power comes great responsibility.

You sort of expect drug gangs to murder one another for no reason. You don’t expect the police to be murdering people for no reason.
I understand that they are not equal, but the sheer number of killings in Chicago alone should bring outrage.

It doesn't, and that's disturbing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 09, 2020, 08:20:53 AM
Humans adjust quickly to whatever is "normal".  If blacks killing blacks in an area is "normal", no one bats an eye.  

I think "we" also tend to over react to the abnormal.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 09, 2020, 08:25:16 AM
I know Al made a series of efforts, none of which has worked. I have no idea on Jesse, though I assume his son tired some things, which also didn't work. I'd assume part of it is that neither man is particularly good at stopping violence, which is why both are more of figureheads or charlatans who I don't take all that seriously.  
I'd like to see a list of what they've done to fight violence. Because from what I've seen, up close, is nothing. Jesse's son may have thought about trying to help - from his jail cell. The only thing he was thinking of when he held office was himself.

Giving people free shit and food stamps has not helped anyone long term, yet their elected leaders keep doing the same things. Insanity, ya know?

Giving people a good education and good jobs would help most. But...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 09, 2020, 08:29:05 AM
Voters like flowery language and the appearance of fixing something, and that is just what politicians vie to provide.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 09, 2020, 08:42:57 AM
320: You may be another one of the many who just misunderstand OAM for some reason.
nope I speak jackass fluently as Ive been surrounded by them all my life
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 09, 2020, 08:43:48 AM
Just read an editorial in the Trib that talked about the state requiring licensing for police officers. It's required for barbers, nurses and engineers, so why not cops? Make it a licensed profession and you'd see more accountability. I like it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 09, 2020, 08:46:40 AM
They aren't de facto licensed already?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 09, 2020, 08:47:11 AM
Just read an editorial in the Trib that talked about the state requiring licensing for police officers. It's required for barbers, nurses and engineers, so why not cops? Make it a licensed profession and you'd see more accountability. I like it.
dont police go to an academy where they are required to pass to become police officers?  Seems that is a license
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2020, 08:52:44 AM
That seems quite clear to me.  But you will keep on thinking that it's everybody else's fault and not yours.
Writers do what I do.  Hell, I got it from a writer.  
But I should change because jackwagons on the interwebz can't hang?  No tanks, mon.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2020, 08:53:06 AM
dont police go to an academy where they are required to pass to become police officers?  Seems that is a license
Yeah, but it's all hijinks and goofs :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 09, 2020, 08:53:12 AM
I can see granting them a state license after passing a consistent training course, and said license can be revoked or suspended by the state as needed.

Right now it's up to the department to suspend or fire an LEO.  He doesn't lose a license, if he did, he'd be unhirable elsewhere in the state.

I also don't know how consistent the training is to become an LEO.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on June 09, 2020, 08:55:59 AM
They matter plenty. Deaths are tragedies, though I suppose if some of them died at the hands of police, they'd be labeled bad guys.

But in the end, it's a distraction. If something galls you, there are many other things that could also gall you. But it does not make this particular thing galling you illegitimate.

Shoot, in the 1960s, I'm sure malnutrition was an issue in black communities in the south. But weirdly we remember the people who fought for the right to vote rather than the people who ignored hungry kids.

(The backing of police is sometimes odd to me. It's basically the ultimate faith in the government, usually from people who seem least interested in trusting the government. Oh well.)
The inverse of what you wrote in parentheses is also true though. The mistrust of police usually comes from those people who seem most interested in trusting the government. I guess that could be viewed as just as odd. Idk.

Which is the distraction? Does bringing up black on black crime distract from the racist cops problem or is it vice versa?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2020, 08:56:30 AM
not all black lives matter

the only black lives that matter is any that were killed by the police

Chicago had 18 black men die in one day from black on black crime but I guess since the police were not involved they didnt matter
Another disgusting deflection.
There are 913,000 black people living in Chicago, most in poverty, mostly segregated in the same neighborhoods.  It is a statistical certainty that they're going to commit crimes and violent crimes, often against each other.  

None of them took an oath to protect or serve anybody (minus those who are cops, obviously).  

There are 13,500 police officers in the Chicago PD.  All of whom took an oath.  

This false equivalencies are sickening.  And I no longer expect more from some of you, you are who you are.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 09, 2020, 08:57:15 AM
:34:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 09, 2020, 08:57:56 AM
dont police go to an academy where they are required to pass to become police officers?  Seems that is a license
It's not a license. It's just an education.

For example, engineers go to school and come out with an engineering degree and the ability to sit for an 8 hour engineer-in-training exam. They are not engineers, however, until they practice for 4 years under a Professional Engineer. Only then are they permitted to sit in the exam room for 8 hours, to try and become a professional engineer.

Licensed professionals are also required to complete continuing education in order to relicense. For engineers it's 30 hours in a 2 year period.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2020, 08:58:40 AM
Which is the distraction? Does bringing up black on black crime distract from the racist cops problem or is it vice versa?
Those who are deflecting here are also harping on the racism slant to this.  It's honestly not about racism, it's about cops murdering unarmed PEOPLE.  

I fear if the racial aspect was removed, some of you would care more.  Again, I can no longer give the benefit of the doubt.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 09, 2020, 09:01:26 AM
Those who are deflecting here are also harping on the racism slant to this.  It's honestly not about racism, it's about cops murdering unarmed PEOPLE. 

I fear if the racial aspect was removed, some of you would care more.  Again, I can no longer give the benefit of the doubt.
My post was not about deflection. It was about an issue that greatly disturbs me. Black lives don't matter when they are shooting each other. That's a huge problem and very disturbing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 09, 2020, 09:03:56 AM

I fear if the racial aspect was removed, some of you would care more.  Again, I can no longer give the benefit of the doubt.
yep we are all racists

Lord give me the strength to endure another day of OAM's witty sage postings
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2020, 09:06:26 AM
yep we are all racists

Lord give me the strength to endure another day of OAM's witty sage postings
I didn't say that. 
To be specific, I think some of you have been brainwashed into viewing things a certain way.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2020, 09:08:09 AM
My post was not about deflection. It was about an issue that greatly disturbs me. Black lives don't matter when they are shooting each other. That's a huge problem and very disturbing.
That's just it - the black-on-black violence is partly due to the systematic racism that keeps them poor and in segregated neighborhoods.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on June 09, 2020, 09:10:05 AM
Those who are deflecting here are also harping on the racism slant to this.  It's honestly not about racism, it's about cops murdering unarmed PEOPLE. 

I fear if the racial aspect was removed, some of you would care more.  Again, I can no longer give the benefit of the doubt.
Again, any number above zero is too many but shooting an unarmed person happens very rarely especially if you put it in the context of how many total encounters cops have with the public.

Also, unarmed doesn’t mean “not a threat.”  It also doesn’t mean the cops necessarily know the people are unarmed.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 09, 2020, 09:13:41 AM
I didn't say that.
To be specific, I think some of you have been brainwashed into viewing things a certain way.
Your words were:

"I fear if the racial aspect was removed, some of you would care more"

you are saying we dont care as much cause hes black which is calling us racists 

if you didnt mean that then say so
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 09, 2020, 09:13:56 AM
That's just it - the black-on-black violence is partly due to the systematic racism that keeps them poor and in segregated neighborhoods. 

What keeps them poor and in segregated neighborhoods are the 60 years of failed programs set in place by city leaders.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 09, 2020, 09:15:43 AM
What keeps them poor and in segregated neighborhoods are the 60 years of failed programs set in place by city leaders.
you stole my thunder 847 I got to get faster at posting
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 09, 2020, 09:17:22 AM
you stole my thunder 847 I got to get faster at posting
https://www.npr.org/2017/05/03/526655831/a-forgotten-history-of-how-the-u-s-government-segregated-america


 (https://www.npr.org/2017/05/03/526655831/a-forgotten-history-of-how-the-u-s-government-segregated-america)More than 60 years. Forgive me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 09, 2020, 09:32:43 AM
I understand that they are not equal, but the sheer number of killings in Chicago alone should bring outrage.

It doesn't, and that's disturbing.
Nothing will change until the root causes of the problems are addressed. Detroit is more violent than Chicago on a per capita basis. Chicago is just a much larger city with a much larger population and more violent crime total. Per capita, Detroit is much worse however. Both cities and many in the rust belt have suffered from an economic collapse in these poverty stricken neighborhoods that is tied to well-paying manufacturing jobs evaporating from these communities.

Chicago has more gang members than any city in America with 70,000+, according to the FBI. And most of the gun violence is tied to the drug-trade turf war these gangs have going on amongst eachother.

Nothing will change until something is done to address the poverty in these neighborhoods and the piss poor educational system in these neighborhoods, and until the endless, wasteful, harmful "war on drugs" is ended. The schools in most of these poor inner-cities are a joke.

Jesse Jackson or Big Al can't do anything to change this. At all. Change has to come from the top levels of federal and state gov't, and from US multi-nationals actually giving a damn about employing people in these communities.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 09, 2020, 10:10:19 AM
Profit-takers are out in force today, cashing in on big games from hard-hit industries.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 09, 2020, 10:13:02 AM
Profit-takers are out in force today, cashing in on big games from hard-hit industries.
market down almost 400 pts
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 09, 2020, 10:15:20 AM
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/tom-arnold-exercise-second-amendment-against-unmarked-police-washington-dc

Meanwhile, another voice from the party of inclusion and unity.

😏

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 09, 2020, 10:21:51 AM
Holy crap. That's borderline terrorism. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 09, 2020, 10:24:26 AM
Holy crap. That's borderline terrorism.
Don’t you see- this is POTUS inciting violence. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 09, 2020, 10:27:53 AM
That dude's still alive? What rock did he climb out from under to get attention?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 09, 2020, 10:29:51 AM
That's what I was thinking.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 09, 2020, 10:31:16 AM
That dude's still alive? What rock did he climb out from under to get attention?
Roseanne?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on June 09, 2020, 10:35:56 AM
Thank God. I think I speak for everyone when I say I’ve been waiting on Tom Arnold’s opinion on all this.

Wake me when there is video of him with a shotgun leading protestors down the street.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 09, 2020, 10:38:08 AM
Thank God. I think I speak for everyone when I say I’ve been waiting on Tom Arnold’s opinion on all this.

Wake me when there is video of him with a shotgun leading protestors down the street.
Shooting himself in the foot...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 09, 2020, 10:38:56 AM
An off-duty Chicago police officer was shot once in the leg early Tuesday as he walked to his vehicle on the South Side, according to authorities.

About 3:20 a.m. the officer, who was not named and who is assigned to the Wentworth District, was “preparing to enter his vehicle,” in the 3900 block of S. Artesian Avenue, according to a preliminary statement on the shooting sent by the Department. He was then approached by two men he didn’t know and one of them pulled a handgun and shot at the officer, officials said.

The officer was shot once in the leg and he drew his own weapon and returned fire, police said. It was unclear how many shots the officer fired and it was not known if anyone was hit by a bullet fired from his gun, officials said.

The officer was taken to an area hospital where he was listed in fair condition.

No arrests have been made and the shooting remains under investigation. The officer will be placed on administrative duties for 30 days.

kdouglas@chicagotribune.com


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 09, 2020, 10:40:30 AM
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/tom-arnold-exercise-second-amendment-against-unmarked-police-washington-dc

Meanwhile, another voice from the party of inclusion and unity.

😏


I'm a lot more bothered by these units of "law enforcement" who don't answer questions about who they are
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: rolltidefan on June 09, 2020, 10:40:38 AM
Thank God. I think I speak for everyone when I say I’ve been waiting on Tom Arnold’s opinion on all this.

Wake me when there is video of him with a shotgun leading protestors down the street.
it'll be all over the news cause he'll be dead, like any other moron that grabs guns and charges towards police would be.

having said that, i'm all for peaceful protests, i've been involved in some local ones, and think police reform is long overdue. but let's keep it peaceful, yet consistent until results show.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 09, 2020, 10:48:47 AM
This is pretty rich with how things really work behind the scenes. My brother sent to me. 


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/chicago-officials-looting-riots (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/chicago-officials-looting-riots)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 09, 2020, 11:18:51 AM
 I think some of you have been brainwashed into viewing things a certain way.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/1PgPvWLfXGkCY/200_d.gif)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2020, 11:33:10 AM
I'm a lot more bothered by these units of "law enforcement" who don't answer questions about who they are
This is the irony of it all - the same people who hoard guns in case they have to fight back vs their own government (folly in the first place) are now stepping aside, letting their own government attack its own citizens.  

It's bizarro world.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2020, 11:34:43 AM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/1PgPvWLfXGkCY/200_d.gif)
The brainwashed never acknowledge being brainwashed.  Maybe that's what Shaq is laughing at.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 09, 2020, 11:37:29 AM
The brainwashed never acknowledge being brainwashed.  Maybe that's what Shaq is laughing at.
You subscribe to the trendiest ideology in the western world. You couldn't form your own, independent thought if your life depended on it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on June 09, 2020, 11:43:10 AM
The brainwashed never acknowledge being brainwashed.  Maybe that's what Shaq is laughing at.
Why do you think anyone on here is brainwashed?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 09, 2020, 11:47:02 AM
Why do you think anyone on here is brainwashed?
I'm brainwashed.  I suspect we all are to some degree, depending on how you define the term.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 09, 2020, 11:59:12 AM
This is the irony of it all - the same people who hoard guns in case they have to fight back vs their own government (folly in the first place) are now stepping aside, letting their own government attack its own citizens. 

It's bizarro world. 
Most people get guns, nit to fight the government, but to protect themselves when lawlessness becomes acceptable to enough people- like in the example given. 
after all, if your protest is a march towards some landmark or building, and there is a wall of people stopping you from your planned destruction, it is important to know their names and what branch of law enforcement they represent 😂😂
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on June 09, 2020, 12:01:25 PM



Just read an editorial in the Trib that talked about the state requiring licensing for police officers. It's required for barbers, nurses and engineers, so why not cops? Make it a licensed profession and you'd see more accountability. I like it.
Minnesota licenses their police officers. Derek Chauvin was a licensed peace officer when he killed George Floyd. So was the killer of Philando Castille, and so are a host of cops who have been convicted of DWI, battery, domestic violence crimes, and the like. 

However, to say that the Peace Officer Standard Test Board is toothless is an insult to toothless. I know of more engineers who have faced fines and suspensions from our board than cops who have had problems with the POST board.

Star Tribune: Convicted, but Still Policing (paywall)

 (https://www.startribune.com/minnesota-police-officers-convicted-of-serious-crimes-still-on-the-job/437687453/)There's a lot of really unpleasant stuff in that article. Among them:

Quote
Gove, a retired Golden Valley police commander, reports to a 15-member board of directors appointed by the governor. State law requires just two public members, and the board is dominated by law enforcement officers. After the outcry over recent shootings of black men in the Twin Cities, Gov. Mark Dayton recently appointed the uncle of Philando Castile, Clarence Castile, to one of the public seats.

Potential discipline cases are reviewed by a three-person complaints committee, two of whom must be sworn officers. Its meetings are closed to the public; its decisions are not published except for a mention in the regular minutes of the board.
“It’s really easy to see when doctors and lawyers and nurses do bad things,” said Rich Neumeister, an activist for open government. “Why can’t we see the bad things cops are doing?”
Melton, the retired Bloomington officer who ran the POST Board for 16 years, said there has long been discussion about expanding the board’s discipline authority. But, he said, there’s never been a consensus or any urgency at the state Legislature.
I guarantee you that the Legislature will be very interested when they convene for a special session on Friday.

Unfortunately, the Twin Cities has a long and sordid racial history (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/minneapolis-long-overdue-crisis/612826/). Minneapolis was writing racial covenants (https://www.minnpost.com/metro/2019/02/with-covenants-racism-was-written-into-minneapolis-housing-the-scars-are-still-visible/) into property deeds long before there was a substantial African-American population in the TC. Lotus Coffman was strictly enforcing racial and anti-Semitic segregation (http://acampusdivided.umn.edu/) at the U of M in the 20s and 30s despite it being illegal in both state and federal codes. One gem was this letter from Coffman to Roy Wilkins, then assistant secretary of the NAACP (http://acampusdivided.umn.edu/index.php/letter/letter-from-lotus-d-coffman-to-roy-wilkins/). And that's just a small sample.

It is not a coincidence that the brass at the Minnesota Highway Department decided to route I-94 through the Rondo neighborhood of St. Paul (and, to a lesser extent, I-35W through the Central neighborhood of south Minneapolis). It was and remains much easier to condemn and take less-expensive property than go to the negotiation table with the railroads. And guess where the less expensive property was? Uh-huh, along Rondo Avenue west of downtown St Paul. MnDOT has to deal with that legacy today, and often struggles mightily to do so. This website (https://www.dot.state.mn.us/I-94minneapolis-stpaul/index.html) has a lot of background information, as part of a scoping process for determining what to do in the corridor now that all the physical plant is 50+ years old and in need of major work. There are also maps out there that showed the locations of both the predominantly African-American neighborhoods and the prospective routing of interstate highways through St. Paul, but I can't find the in a non-Facebook setting. 

"Gut and rebuild" doesn't roll off the tongue nearly as well as "defund," but that seems to be what is on the minds of both the Mayor's office and the City Council. Camden, New Jersey (https://www.npr.org/2020/06/08/872470135/new-police-force-from-scratch-n-j-city-proves-its-possible-to-reform-the-police?fbclid=IwAR2qaDpfB4b9iqmsejgKWXvNyEdYtS8SBg7WPP9uGlccSorK4vI1ra9MfrI) appears to be a role model for a future MPD.

Pardon the long post, but there was a lot that needed to be said.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 09, 2020, 12:09:58 PM
Good post GR.

Sounds like the police board up there needs to be more like the engineering board. The one in Illinois is tough as nails on bad practice.

Of course, police are union members. Maybe that needs to change too, as part of the reforms. 

Engineers are non-union professionals => very tough disciplinary standards

Police personnel are union members =>   <<<crickets>>>
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 09, 2020, 12:20:20 PM
I'm musing about the probability that I would take my guns out in an unsettled time to confront police who may be attacking my fellow citizens unfairly.

Frankly, that sounds like an idiotic proposition almost certain to end badly, for me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on June 09, 2020, 12:32:22 PM
Good post GR.

Sounds like the police board up there needs to be more like the engineering board. The one in Illinois is tough as nails on bad practice.

Of course, police are union members. Maybe that needs to change too, as part of the reforms.

Engineers are non-union professionals => very tough disciplinary standards

Police personnel are union members =>  <<<crickets>>>
Not all unions are created equal.

Us engineers have our own union, but that didn't help one that I know when he forgot to renew his license. On top of having to pay a four-figure fine for practicing without a valid license, since our PDs require a valid license for that pay grade, he had to go on an unpaid leave of absence for the duration of his suspension. That is why I was very careful on how I phrased things between June 2018 and this past January.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 09, 2020, 12:36:33 PM
Engineers are union up there?

That's... not good.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 09, 2020, 01:03:19 PM
I was brainwashed when I stepped onto the UNL campus as a freshman

changed me from a solid Buckeye fan to a Cornhusker!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 09, 2020, 01:03:51 PM
An off-duty Chicago police officer was shot once in the leg early Tuesday as he walked to his vehicle on the South Side, according to authorities.

About 3:20 a.m. the officer, who was not named and who is assigned to the Wentworth District, was “preparing to enter his vehicle,” in the 3900 block of S. Artesian Avenue, according to a preliminary statement on the shooting sent by the Department. He was then approached by two men he didn’t know and one of them pulled a handgun and shot at the officer, officials said.

The officer was shot once in the leg and he drew his own weapon and returned fire, police said. It was unclear how many shots the officer fired and it was not known if anyone was hit by a bullet fired from his gun, officials said.

The officer was taken to an area hospital where he was listed in fair condition.

No arrests have been made and the shooting remains under investigation. The officer will be placed on administrative duties for 30 days.

kdouglas@chicagotribune.com



There's something odd about the construction of that story. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 09, 2020, 01:06:24 PM
I'd like to see a list of what they've done to fight violence. Because from what I've seen, up close, is nothing. Jesse's son may have thought about trying to help - from his jail cell. The only thing he was thinking of when he held office was himself.

Giving people free shit and food stamps has not helped anyone long term, yet their elected leaders keep doing the same things. Insanity, ya know?

Giving people a good education and good jobs would help most. But...
I mean, I just read he said things about it and I think bought an apartment in Chicago as part of a gesture or something. Anyway, I said they're all charlatans, not particularly good for their eras and just bygone characters at this point. 

Alas, it turns out getting folks either good education or good jobs is a good bit trickier than one would hope. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 09, 2020, 01:07:05 PM
" It was unclear how many shots the officer fired and it was not known if anyone was hit by a bullet fired from his gun, officials said."

The reporter should have written "It was not reported how many shots were fired, details are pending."

It's clearly KNOWN how many were fired.  I presume the officer was in uniform, and off duty?  That could be more clear also.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 09, 2020, 01:08:28 PM
Is "Al" the Rev. Sharpton?  Has he tried to stop violence at any point?  Last time I paid attention to him, he was siccing his mob on the Jews of Crown Heights.  And then before that was the Tawana Brawley hoax.

I know I'm just hitting on his high (or is it low?) points, but, seriously, has he done any good works?  I know he's been fined several times for not paying his taxes.
Haven't the foggiest. I thought he was a caricature. (That Crown Heights thing is a mess. You're thinking of the one in the 1991)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 09, 2020, 01:09:11 PM
There's something odd about the construction of that story.
Yes- sounds odd. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 09, 2020, 01:10:35 PM
There's something odd about the construction of that story.
Not in a Plaxico Burress kind of way, are you saying?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 09, 2020, 01:12:26 PM
The inverse of what you wrote in parentheses is also true though. The mistrust of police usually comes from those people who seem most interested in trusting the government. I guess that could be viewed as just as odd. Idk.

Which is the distraction? Does bringing up black on black crime distract from the racist cops problem or is it vice versa?

It's perhaps a casualty of the lack of bipartisanism in modern society. Or it's a general issue with the innate hypocrisy of the structural two-sided nature of our or maybe any political system. 

I think in a lot of cases, black on black crime gets thrown out when something else is being discussed because it's a good base for "what about that?" Like it's super, super terrible, but it's also not something that can be held to account in the same way. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 09, 2020, 01:13:17 PM
Not in a Plaxico Burress kind of way, are you saying?
No. In a cops feed press sort of way. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 09, 2020, 01:14:26 PM
There's something odd about the construction of that story.
this is not surprising

unfortunately, this seems to be the new normal for reporters and/or story writers
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 09, 2020, 01:15:11 PM
" It was unclear how many shots the officer fired and it was not known if anyone was hit by a bullet fired from his gun, officials said."

The reporter should have written "It was not reported how many shots were fired, details are pending."

It's clearly KNOWN how many were fired.  I presume the officer was in uniform, and off duty?  That could be more clear also.


In essence, the story is "this is what the police say happened."

It's also missing the context of why our off-duty cop is walking to his car at 3:20 in the morning. It's probably very mundane, but leaves a gap for one to wonder.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 09, 2020, 01:16:14 PM
this is not surprising

unfortunately, this seems to be the new normal for reporters and/or story writers
Ehhh, it's basically the normal. "Police have said this, so that's what you're reading."

The press deference to law enforcement is pretty strong, in part owing to some legal underpinnings. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 09, 2020, 01:16:35 PM
No. In a cops feed press sort of way.
That’s what I thought as well. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 09, 2020, 01:19:12 PM
It's perhaps a casualty of the lack of bipartisanism in modern society. Or it's a general issue with the innate hypocrisy of the structural two-sided nature of our or maybe any political system.

I think in a lot of cases, black on black crime gets thrown out when something else is being discussed because it's a good base for "what about that?" Like it's super, super terrible, but it's also not something that can be held to account in the same way.
Yes.  In the business world we call it:
“hey— look over there at that shiny object”

I use it in my world a lot when being audited lol 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 09, 2020, 01:30:38 PM
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pallets-of-bricks-protest-sites/ (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pallets-of-bricks-protest-sites/)

The pallets of bricks story appears, as expected, to have a rather mundane explanation.  I realize some folks don't believe Snopes, which is fine with me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 09, 2020, 01:44:03 PM
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pallets-of-bricks-protest-sites/ (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pallets-of-bricks-protest-sites/)

The pallets of bricks story appears, as expected, to have a rather mundane explanation.  I realize some folks don't believe Snopes, which is fine with me.
I should be surprised a theory that stupid happened, but I'm not. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 09, 2020, 01:49:06 PM
There's something odd about the construction of that story.
Not really. It's developing.

Maybe he was getting in his car to report for duty at 4AM? Maybe he just got off duty and was going back to retrieve something he forgot? Maybe he was targeted by the shooter as someone he was investigated by? Lots of possibilities.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 09, 2020, 01:51:49 PM
I should be surprised a theory that stupid happened, but I'm not.

A lot of theories.  No real answer. 

here is the fact: bricks were thrown at law enforcement and injured many of them.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 09, 2020, 01:58:13 PM
should have been inside the tank/SWAT vehicle

with full riot gear

boy scouts are prepared
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 09, 2020, 02:03:20 PM



(https://i.imgur.com/YfIi16q.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/rnvobIl.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 09, 2020, 02:08:58 PM
D-Day
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on June 09, 2020, 02:10:12 PM
Yes.  In the business world we call it:
“hey— look over there at that shiny object”

I use it in my world a lot when being audited lol
I guess I’ve never viewed it as a diversionary tactic.  When my wife complains about the clutter in the garage I don’t think I’m changing the subject or avoiding the problem when I tell her 90 percent of the stuff is hers.  Doesn’t mean I don’t have stuff to clean out but I’m not sure that is the best way to get a clean garage.

When people complain about blacks being murdered by white cops I’ve never felt like it was a diversionary tactic to point out far more blacks are being killed by blacks.  If you want black lives to matter that seems like a good place to start.

That being said, I can appreciate the arguments that we should have a higher standard for cops than common criminals.  I guess I still view it as unusual, isolated incidents.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 09, 2020, 02:14:45 PM
That being said, I can appreciate the arguments that we should have a higher standard for cops than common criminals.  I guess I still view it as unusual, isolated incidents.
We should have higher standards for cops than common criminals. But, some cops ARE common criminals, with strong unions to back them. I don't think for a minute that this murderous cop would have still been one without that strong union. 18 prior offenses? Why was he still working??
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 09, 2020, 02:16:13 PM
Alton Brown chili is a hearty no bean chili with intense layers of robust flavor and plenty of fall-apart tender beef to satisfy that inner carnivore.

RECIPE VARIATIONS
Alton Brown chili is such a hearty satisfying recipe, you probably don’t want to change it too much. The great thing is that its so simple it can be really flexible too. Here are a few simple suggestions.

(I LOVE THIS PART)

Can I Make This With A Texan Twist?
Alton Brown chili isn’t exactly a Texas chili recipe, but you can add kidney beans and onions to create more of a Texas Road House Chili with a kick. Fill a deep bowl for a hearty meal or use it to spice up another recipe.


https://www.gonnawantseconds.com/alton-brown-chili/ (https://www.gonnawantseconds.com/alton-brown-chili/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 09, 2020, 02:17:47 PM
I guess I’ve never viewed it as a diversionary tactic.  When my wife complains about the clutter in the garage I don’t think I’m changing the subject or avoiding the problem when I tell her 90 percent of the stuff is hers.  Doesn’t mean I don’t have stuff to clean out but I’m not sure that is the best way to get a clean garage.

When people complain about blacks being murdered by white cops I’ve never felt like it was a diversionary tactic to point out far more blacks are being killed by blacks.  If you want black lives to matter that seems like a good place to start.

That being said, I can appreciate the arguments that we should have a higher standard for cops than common criminals.  I guess I still view it as unusual, isolated incidents.
I actually agree with you. But, I can understand why some feel it is a distraction from what they feel is the more important issue. 
I think it is the BLM slogan that makes folks not at ease when that is not really what they are saying.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 09, 2020, 02:18:55 PM
Texas Road House chili? 

Who would want to eat chili made by a restaurant that started out in Indiana?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 09, 2020, 02:25:21 PM
I guess I’ve never viewed it as a diversionary tactic.  When my wife complains about the clutter in the garage I don’t think I’m changing the subject or avoiding the problem when I tell her 90 percent of the stuff is hers.  Doesn’t mean I don’t have stuff to clean out but I’m not sure that is the best way to get a clean garage.

When people complain about blacks being murdered by white cops I’ve never felt like it was a diversionary tactic to point out far more blacks are being killed by blacks.  If you want black lives to matter that seems like a good place to start.

It's a false analogy. If she was complaining about the clutter in the garage and you asked "well what about the cluttered kitchen cabinet?", that'd be the same thing.

A relevant tactic when discussing cop-on-black crime would be to compare it to cop-on-white crime to determine if the cop-on-citizen crime was racially motivated or racially disparate. A diversionary tactic would be to talk about citizen-on-citizen crime of any race, because it is irrelevant to the police doing their jobs without engaging in brutality.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 09, 2020, 02:25:46 PM
It's amazing that folks can be so misinformed on any topic
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 09, 2020, 02:29:26 PM
It's amazing to me how folks can be so misinformed about misinformed many people are in the world.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 09, 2020, 02:30:15 PM
There should be outrage for all murderous activities. I'm outraged that Chicago just had its deadliest weekend on record, ever. I'm outraged that it's not being addressed.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on June 09, 2020, 02:35:17 PM
It's a false analogy. If she was complaining about the clutter in the garage and you asked "well what about the cluttered kitchen cabinet?", that'd be the same thing.

A relevant tactic when discussing cop-on-black crime would be to compare it to cop-on-white crime to determine if the cop-on-citizen crime was racially motivated or racially disparate. A diversionary tactic would be to talk about citizen-on-citizen crime of any race, because it is irrelevant to the police doing their jobs without engaging in brutality.
Ok. I can accept that. But to take the analogy even further then to me it’s like if she is complaining about two boxes in the garage when you can’t walk through the kitchen because of the clutter.

Are we focusing on the biggest clutter problem we have?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 09, 2020, 02:42:38 PM
It's a false analogy. If she was complaining about the clutter in the garage and you asked "well what about the cluttered kitchen cabinet?", that'd be the same thing.

A relevant tactic when discussing cop-on-black crime would be to compare it to cop-on-white crime to determine if the cop-on-citizen crime was racially motivated or racially disparate. A diversionary tactic would be to talk about citizen-on-citizen crime of any race, because it is irrelevant to the police doing their jobs without engaging in brutality.
Black Lives Matter is a misnomer, then.  That's not what the movement is about.  So no analogy is appropriate, because the movement itself isn't appropriately addressing its named cause.

The movement is about police violence against black people.  Which is fine, and reasonable, and just.  But to make an appropriate impact in the appropriate place-- to enable its own means to corrective action-- it should be called something else, something more specific, that targets the actual problem they're attempting to address.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 09, 2020, 02:52:59 PM
Black Lives Matter is a misnomer, then.  That's not what the movement is about.  So no analogy is appropriate, because the movement itself isn't appropriately addressing its named cause.

The movement is about police violence against black people.  Which is fine, and reasonable, and just.  But to make an appropriate impact in the appropriate place-- to enable its own means to corrective action-- it should be called something else, something more specific, that targets the actual problem they're attempting to address.

Yes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 09, 2020, 02:58:40 PM
Black Lives Matter is a misnomer, then.  That's not what the movement is about.  So no analogy is appropriate, because the movement itself isn't appropriately addressing its named cause.

The movement is about police violence against black people.  Which is fine, and reasonable, and just.  But to make an appropriate impact in the appropriate place-- to enable its own means to corrective action-- it should be called something else, something more specific, that targets the actual problem they're attempting to address.

Amen. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 09, 2020, 02:59:52 PM
hey, the BLM folks see this as a big boost to their cause, so of course they are going to run with it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 09, 2020, 03:54:16 PM
Ok. I can accept that. But to take the analogy even further then to me it’s like if she is complaining about two boxes in the garage when you can’t walk through the kitchen because of the clutter.

Are we focusing on the biggest clutter problem we have?

I don't know that we every 100 percent will. But we're focusing on one that can in theory be changed by a level of collective action. The police should be answerable to their people. 

Trying to solve the violence that comes with poverty, it's simply a worlds more complex problem, and that's saying something because some of the issues with police violence are plenty complex. That doesn't mean people haven't tried to solve it (not super effectively), or won't keep trying to solve it (though there is admittedly not much agreed upon path forward). 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 09, 2020, 04:04:28 PM
Black Lives Matter is a misnomer, then.  That's not what the movement is about.  So no analogy is appropriate, because the movement itself isn't appropriately addressing its named cause.

The movement is about police violence against black people.  Which is fine, and reasonable, and just.  But to make an appropriate impact in the appropriate place-- to enable its own means to corrective action-- it should be called something else, something more specific, that targets the actual problem they're attempting to address.

The Tea Party movement was not about tea nor parties nor the act of looting for which it was originally named. The World Series does not include teams from across the world.

Looking over their website, economic injustice and access to quality education get mentioned. These seem like they would address that. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 09, 2020, 04:06:37 PM
The Tea Party movement was not about tea nor parties nor the act of looting for which it was originally named. The World Series does not include teams from across the world.

Looking over their website, economic injustice and access to quality education get mentioned. These seem like they would address that.


You've provided two excellent examples of other poorly or incorrectly named entities.  So... thanks for making my point, I guess?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 09, 2020, 04:08:19 PM
The Tea Party movement was not about tea nor parties nor the act of looting for which it was originally named. The World Series does not include teams from across the world.

Looking over their website, economic injustice and access to quality education get mentioned. These seem like they would address that.


The quality education part would help put a stop to economic injustice. I wish that would be the primary focus, moving forward. It solves a lot of problems.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 09, 2020, 04:11:09 PM
Not really. It's developing.

Maybe he was getting in his car to report for duty at 4AM? Maybe he just got off duty and was going back to retrieve something he forgot? Maybe he was targeted by the shooter as someone he was investigated by? Lots of possibilities.
I mean, the police, from interviewing a member of the police about what happened, should be able to get some of that out of him. (Though obviously he wouldn't know if the shooter was connected to an investigation unless they indicated that)

Anywho, the police aren't bad at PR. Pushing a report to the front of the pile to say, "Hey, we're under attack" even when the reports is on the developing side would not be a surprising move to that end.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 09, 2020, 04:11:48 PM
Education would be great, a largely two person household would be great, better jobs would be great, cleaning up vacant lots would be great, getting a Walmart to come into a struggling neighborhood would be great .... I think it has been well known for decades what probably would work, IF it all could happen .... magically, somehow.  Maybe we could throw money at the problem.  Oh wait, we've done that too.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 09, 2020, 04:12:12 PM
 The World Series does not include teams from across the world.
Be nice if it included a team from Cleveland winning one every 70-75 yrs or so
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 09, 2020, 04:12:42 PM
The quality education part would help put a stop to economic injustice. I wish that would be the primary focus, moving forward. It solves a lot of problems.
That it would. Though there's also a mess of socialization problems to overcome. Real challenging stuff. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 09, 2020, 04:13:49 PM
Be nice if it included a team from Cleveland winning one every 70-75 yrs or so
Harry Doyle said this is the year
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 09, 2020, 04:15:45 PM
Ok. I can accept that. But to take the analogy even further then to me it’s like if she is complaining about two boxes in the garage when you can’t walk through the kitchen because of the clutter.

Are we focusing on the biggest clutter problem we have?

Maybe we're not. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't focus on it. Again, that's a "whataboutism" diversionary tactic.

As FF brought up in the coronavirus thread, 25M people a year worldwide die from contaminated water. does that mean we shouldn't take coronavirus seriously in the US? 

I don't know that we every 100 percent will. But we're focusing on one that can in theory be changed by a level of collective action. The police should be answerable to their people.

Trying to solve the violence that comes with poverty, it's simply a worlds more complex problem, and that's saying something because some of the issues with police violence are plenty complex. That doesn't mean people haven't tried to solve it (not super effectively), or won't keep trying to solve it (though there is admittedly not much agreed upon path forward).
Exactly. The solution for the problem of inner-city gang violence is incredibly complex. And people ARE trying [ineffectively] to solve it. But it's hard, because part of it is entirely wrapped up in the problems of drug prohibition [and the black markets / turf wars inherent therein]. It's hard because it's decentralized. It's hard because it's wrapped up in cycles of poverty and poor community support that go back generations, in communities that are consistently subject to adversarial policing and don't trust that the police will help them if needed.

The problem of police brutality SHOULD be much easier to solve. For one, it appears to be a very American phenomenon, so there are lots of counterexamples from other nations that we could learn from--but we don't. Second, it's centralized; you know who the police are, and they all report up through a chain of command to decision-makers with power that could push accountability down from the top--but the political forces stop us from doing it. Third, police are hired professionals and we should have the resources to adequately train bad behavior out of them--when instead the system reinforces it.  

To draw it back to the analogy, if I have a systemic problem in the kitchen where it's too cluttered not because of laziness, but because I have too many cooking utensils and not enough room, but my problem in the garage is that I've got a couple boxes of clutter that I'm just being lazy about donating to Goodwill or pitching in the trash, it would be fully normal to focus on taking care of the low-hanging fruit and fixing the garage. Because the bigger problem, the cluttered kitchen, is going to be exceedingly hard to solve without getting rid of things I feel I need, or moving to a bigger house we can't afford.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 09, 2020, 04:17:42 PM
Harry Doyle said this is the year
Screw you Jobu - I do it myself
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 09, 2020, 05:00:23 PM
Lolla, Taste of Chicago and the Chicago Air and Water show all cancelled today. 

All are major outdoor events, like protests.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 09, 2020, 05:07:11 PM
Lolla, Taste of Chicago and the Chicago Air and Water show all cancelled today.

All are major outdoor events, like protests.
However, all have discernable legal corporate entities promoting them that could be sued out of existence for liability if their attendees suddenly had a 2% mortality rate. 

Try suing BLM if you get COVID-19 from a protest. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 09, 2020, 05:14:26 PM
I don't think any city can practicably stop the protests, so they don't try.  They can stop organized events.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 09, 2020, 05:15:56 PM
Abstract of a working paper trying to establish the effect of police unions on police brutality:


Quote
Abstract

Growing controversy surrounds the impact of labor unions on law enforcement behavior. Critics argue that unions impede organizational reform and insulate officers from discipline for misconduct. Yet collective bargaining tends to increase wages, which could improve officer behavior. We provide quasi-experimental empirical evidence on the effects of collective bargaining rights on violent incidents of misconduct. Our empirical strategy exploits a 2003 Florida Supreme Court decision (Williams), which conferred collective bargaining rights on sheriffs’ deputies, resulting in a substantial increase in unionization among these officers. Using a Florida state administrative database of “moral character” violations reported by local agencies between 1996 and 2015, we implement a difference-in-difference approach in which police departments (which were unaffected by Williams) serve as a control group for sheriffs’ offices (SOs). Our estimates imply that collective bargaining rights led to a substantial increase in violent incidents of misconduct among SOs, relative to police departments. The effect of collective bargaining rights is concentrated among SOs that subsequently adopted collective bargaining agreements, and the timing of the adoption of these agreements is associated with increases in violent misconduct. There is also some evidence consistent with a “bargaining in the shadow” effect among SOs that did not unionize.

Caveats... I found this through a Cato Institute (https://www.cato.org/blog/police-unions-enable-misconduct) posting, a well known libertarian think tank. Given their priors, I think you can pretty conclusively state that they're anti public-sector union from the start. And the actual paper (https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3095217) came out of the University of Chicago. While I don't know the political proclivities of their Law school, from which the writers came, their economics department (the "Chicago School") which is inexorably tied with Milton Friedman, and is heavily libertarian. This paper is attributed to the UofC Coase-Sandor Institute of Law & Economics, with Coase being Ronald Coase, a long-time professor of economics within said school. 


So, while this 100% aligns with my prior beliefs about public sector unions, note that me coming across it and agreeing with it could be pure confirmation bias. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 09, 2020, 05:17:54 PM
However, all have discernable legal corporate entities promoting them that could be sued out of existence for liability if their attendees suddenly had a 2% mortality rate.

Try suing BLM if you get COVID-19 from a protest.
Highly doubtful amigo. Attendance at any event is voluntary. Everyone knows the risks.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 09, 2020, 05:28:44 PM
Writers do what I do.  Hell, I got it from a writer. 
But I should change because jackwagons on the interwebz can't hang?  No tanks, mon.
What happens on a message board is more like conversation than what happens in writing an article, essay, story, etc.  In formal writing, constant "IMOs" would be hugely annoying.  The opposite is true on a message board.
But, as I said previously, you will continue to do as you do, and you will continue to be perplexed when people take you other than how you intended to be taken.
To quote a writer, "So it goes."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 09, 2020, 05:33:19 PM
That's just it - the black-on-black violence is partly due to the systematic racism that keeps them poor and in segregated neighborhoods.
What do you think the black-on-black murder rate was 60 years ago when de facto segregation was usually the rule even where it was not the law?

Higher or lower than it is now?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 09, 2020, 05:38:25 PM
Were statistics back then reliably kept?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2020, 05:44:12 PM
What do you think the black-on-black murder rate was 60 years ago when de facto segregation was usually the rule even where it was not the law?

Higher or lower than it is now?
I don't know, I assume it was lower.  Less people, fewer guns.

But you bring that up....segregation when it was the rule was bad.  But segregation when it's supposedly illegal is worse, no?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 09, 2020, 05:49:09 PM
I think Jim Crow laws where government was responsible for enforcing them was much worse than racism not espoused and enforced by government.

Since 1993, violent crime rates have dropped markedly while the number of guns in private hands has gone up markedly.  There are some caveats here, including the usual cause and effect notation.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 09, 2020, 06:06:22 PM
https://www.npr.org/2017/05/03/526655831/a-forgotten-history-of-how-the-u-s-government-segregated-america

 (https://www.npr.org/2017/05/03/526655831/a-forgotten-history-of-how-the-u-s-government-segregated-america)More than 60 years. Forgive me.
Yes, the New Deal was explicitly segregated.  For two major reasons that come right to mind.
First, the party that was in power (are we allowed to say its name?) had a southern wing that was effectively the KKK in regular clothes.
Second, the northern wing of the party that was in power was dependent on the support of Big Labor, which for the most part excluded blacks.  Because of that, the federal government legislated that all New Deal contractors would pay "the prevailing wage," which meant the union wage, which meant blacks couldn't get the jobs.
So the federal government's actions worked to ensure that African Americans could not find good housing and could not find good jobs.
That southern/KKK wing of the party in power was still going strong during WWII, and was a major reason that we (the USA) only took a relative handful of Jewish refugees from the wonderfulness of Nazi Germany in the late '30s-early '40s.
I've only begun that article.  It's right on the mark so far, though.

Here's an excerpt from something awhile back.

Quote
“In Langston Hughes’ autobiography, he describes how he lived [from 1916 to 1920] in an integrated neighborhood in Cleveland. His best friend in high school was Polish. He dated a Jewish girl. That neighborhood in Cleveland was [later] razed by the [PWA], which built two segregated [ones], one for African-Americans, one for whites. The Depression gave the stimulus for the first civilian public housing to be built. Were it not for that policy, many of these cities might have developed with a different residential pattern.”

~ Richard Rothstein
Interviewed by Katie Nodjimbadem
“The Racial Segregation of American Cities Was Anything But Accidental”
Smithsonian.com, May 30, 2017

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 09, 2020, 06:09:44 PM
Your words were:

"I fear if the racial aspect was removed, some of you would care more"

you are saying we dont care as much cause hes black which is calling us racists

if you didnt mean that then say so
It's the Motte-and-Bailey argument at work again.
Make an outrageous statement, get called on it, retreat to a defensible position, and say that's what you meant all along.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 09, 2020, 06:12:42 PM
Motte & Bailey did they make a Wine Spritzer or something
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 09, 2020, 06:15:19 PM
https://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/articles/arts-culture/techwood-homes (https://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/articles/arts-culture/techwood-homes)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 09, 2020, 06:15:39 PM
Nothing will change until the root causes of the problems are addressed. Detroit is more violent than Chicago on a per capita basis. Chicago is just a much larger city with a much larger population and more violent crime total. Per capita, Detroit is much worse however. Both cities and many in the rust belt have suffered from an economic collapse in these poverty stricken neighborhoods that is tied to well-paying manufacturing jobs evaporating from these communities.

Chicago has more gang members than any city in America with 70,000+, according to the FBI. And most of the gun violence is tied to the drug-trade turf war these gangs have going on amongst eachother.

Nothing will change until something is done to address the poverty in these neighborhoods and the piss poor educational system in these neighborhoods, and until the endless, wasteful, harmful "war on drugs" is ended. The schools in most of these poor inner-cities are a joke.

Jesse Jackson or Big Al can't do anything to change this. At all. Change has to come from the top levels of federal and state gov't, and from US multi-nationals actually giving a damn about employing people in these communities.
Trillions of dollars of programs have "been done" to address these "root causes," starting in 1965.  Most of that money seems to have done more harm than good.  Poverty, which was on a steady decline throughout the 1950s, stopped declining in about 1967, and now just fluctuates as the economy fluctuates.  Black poverty, which was declining faster than white poverty from 1950 to 1967-ish, now holds steady at a higher rate than the overall poverty rate.

The Law of Unexpected Consequences never sleeps.
I agree with you about the War on Drugs, which you have criticized elsewhere.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 09, 2020, 06:18:58 PM
Since 1993, violent crime rates have dropped markedly while the number of guns in private hands has gone up markedly.  There are some caveats here, including the usual cause and effect notation.
For a lot of reasons, I'm leery of anything Kevin Drum says. That said, he does appear to be an independent thinker, and not beholden to political party or ideology even though he's generally a solid lefty. 

One pet theory he's been pushing over the many years I've read him is the lead-crime link. 

Violent crime was going up consistently, in the 1960s, regardless of any other known external factors, peaking in the early 1990s. Violent crime has gone down consistently, almost regardless of any other known external factors, since the early 90s. 

The theory is that leaded gasoline emissions rose and rose through the beginning of the century and then rose sharply after WWII. Starting in the 1970s, we phased out leaded gasoline. Given time lag (~18 years from early childhood exposure to prime crime-committing years), that basically lines up perfectly with the peak and the decline. 

A much more detailed post than I can do justice here: https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/02/an-updated-lead-crime-roundup-for-2018/ (https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/02/an-updated-lead-crime-roundup-for-2018/)

Essentially, while I think Drum is a left-wing wacko on a lot of things, he appears to have done some really great work putting this together. 

You can credit increased gun ownership with the reduced crime, but I'd argue that's confirmation bias for liking guns in the first place--at least for a lot of people. I think there's a much stronger argument that a lot of violent crime was caused by lead exposure.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2020, 06:19:58 PM
It's the Motte-and-Bailey argument at work again.
Make an outrageous statement, get called on it, retreat to a defensible position, and say that's what you meant all along.
Or, I didn't see it until just now.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2020, 06:22:40 PM
Texas Road House chili?

Who would want to eat chili made by a restaurant that started out in Indiana?
I'll eat any chili that has a lot of meat and not too many beans.  I'm not picky.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 09, 2020, 06:24:59 PM
Screw you Jobu - I do it myself
He'll need a VISA card to catch that one
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 09, 2020, 06:26:47 PM
Not all unions are created equal.

Us engineers have our own union, but that didn't help one that I know when he forgot to renew his license. On top of having to pay a four-figure fine for practicing without a valid license, since our PDs require a valid license for that pay grade, he had to go on an unpaid leave of absence for the duration of his suspension. That is why I was very careful on how I phrased things between June 2018 and this past January.
Public-employee unions are problematic in a way that private-sector unions are not.  Public employees' union dues go in part toward political contributions to the same people with whom they negotiate their pay and working rules.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 09, 2020, 06:31:53 PM
Alton Brown chili is a hearty no bean chili with intense layers of robust flavor and plenty of fall-apart tender beef to satisfy that inner carnivore.

RECIPE VARIATIONS
Alton Brown chili is such a hearty satisfying recipe, you probably don’t want to change it too much. The great thing is that its so simple it can be really flexible too. Here are a few simple suggestions.

(I LOVE THIS PART)

Can I Make This With A Texan Twist?
Alton Brown chili isn’t exactly a Texas chili recipe, but you can add kidney beans and onions to create more of a Texas Road House Chili with a kick. Fill a deep bowl for a hearty meal or use it to spice up another recipe.


https://www.gonnawantseconds.com/alton-brown-chili/ (https://www.gonnawantseconds.com/alton-brown-chili/)
:57:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2020, 06:34:23 PM
Your words were:

"I fear if the racial aspect was removed, some of you would care more"

you are saying we dont care as much cause hes black which is calling us racists

if you didnt mean that then say so
Cool, I got to look back 6 pages to find this, to prove I'm not avoiding it.  What a fun thread.

So despite my already specifying it's not calling anyone racist, I guess me saying it again will help you believe me??  
A)  It's not racist to find things similar to yourself slightly more meaningful.  We all do it.  But some of us do it a tiny bit and some of us do it continually.  
Ex:  If a bunch of UNARMED white men were being murdered by cops, it would hit closer to home for white people.  That's not calling anyone racist, I deem it pretty much an easy given.  Unremarkable.

B)  Again, as I stated in the first post addressing this, it's about unarmed people being murdered by police.  If it was a mixture of white, latino, and black, I'm sure we'd all hold hands together in protest.  Maybe not, but it'd be more likely, wouldn't it?  


Now go ahead and tell me how I'm wrong and blah blah.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2020, 06:35:56 PM
Why would anyone ADD beans?  Beans are tolerated, and too many of them ruin it.  Beans in chili are like lettuce on a burger - I get it, and it's fine, but don't get crazy with it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 09, 2020, 06:38:27 PM
I don't know that we every 100 percent will. But we're focusing on one that can in theory be changed by a level of collective action. The police should be answerable to their people.

Trying to solve the violence that comes with poverty, it's simply a worlds more complex problem, and that's saying something because some of the issues with police violence are plenty complex. That doesn't mean people haven't tried to solve it (not super effectively), or won't keep trying to solve it (though there is admittedly not much agreed upon path forward).
Do we have good statistical models on the "poverty causes increased violence" claim?  Or are there other factors involved?
I'm not asking rhetorically.  I think my 2nd question is closer to the mark, but I only have anecdotal evidence for that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 09, 2020, 06:43:56 PM
Cool, I got to look back 6 pages to find this, to prove I'm not avoiding it.  What a fun thread.

So despite my already specifying it's not calling anyone racist, I guess me saying it again will help you believe me?? 
A)  It's not racist to find things similar to yourself slightly more meaningful.  We all do it.  But some of us do it a tiny bit and some of us do it continually. 
Ex:  If a bunch of UNARMED white men were being murdered by cops, it would hit closer to home for white people.  That's not calling anyone racist, I deem it pretty much an easy given.  Unremarkable.

B)  Again, as I stated in the first post addressing this, it's about unarmed people being murdered by police.  If it was a mixture of white, latino, and black, I'm sure we'd all hold hands together in protest.  Maybe not, but it'd be more likely, wouldn't it? 


Now go ahead and tell me how I'm wrong and blah blah.
what mystifies me is why you feel the need to say this

no one here has even remotely suggested that this wasnt a horrible act

what more can we say to convince you that everyone here wants the police officer involved prosecuted

why feel the need to say if it was a white guy murdered we would feel differently

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 09, 2020, 06:50:42 PM
The quality education part would help put a stop to economic injustice. I wish that would be the primary focus, moving forward. It solves a lot of problems.
A human problem rears its head when we say "better schools" is the solution.
The better schools need to be in the most violent part of the city.
Teachers are humans, and most teachers would rather teach in a safer school to students whose parents support the idea of their children getting a good education.  So, to the extent that teachers can vote with their feet, they find jobs in in schools that are not in the middle of combat zones.
Better schools are certainly part of the solution.  But getting better schools in a poor, dangerous neighborhood is easier said than done, despite all good intentions of state legislators, school boards, superintendents, et. al.
Of course, some teachers like the challenge of teaching in dangerous schools in distressed areas.  Maybe OAM is one of those, as I believe he has said he teaches on an Indian reservation.
I'm not one of those.  I did that thing for 8 years, and every Sunday evening during the school year I got physically ill thinking of the week to come.  It was worse than anything I did in 20 years in the Army.  Boot camp, Jump School, Ranger School, Flight School.  All far more pleasant and rewarding than teaching in an inner-city middle school where the punishment for telling a teacher that you're going to get your dad to punch his lights out is that you get to skip that teacher's class for the rest of the week.  Worse if the kid in question is a good football or basketball player.
It took 8 years for me to realize that it wasn't going to get better, then I voted with my feet.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 09, 2020, 06:54:22 PM
Do we have good statistical models on the "poverty causes increased violence" claim?  Or are there other factors involved?
I'm not asking rhetorically.  I think my 2nd question is closer to the mark, but I only have anecdotal evidence for that.
Well, I think the chain goes like this:


That said, the dude in my fraternity house that was the "drug hookup" wasn't poor. We see it where well-off investment bankers end up insider trading, or you have Bernie Madoff Ponzi schemes because sometimes the illicit methods are just TOO juicy. 

But I think that the reason that so many people in the inner cities turn to drugs and gangs is because they don't have other viable options.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2020, 06:58:30 PM

But I think that the reason that so many people in the inner cities turn to drugs and gangs is because they don't have other viable options.


Well said.

This, AND they have no hope of viable options on the horizon.  AND they have kids who see this behavior and mimic it, as we all tend to do.
Thus the cycle.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2020, 07:00:13 PM
what mystifies me is why you feel the need to say this

no one here has even remotely suggested that this wasnt a horrible act 

what more can we say to convince you that everyone here wants the police officer involved prosecuted  I don't doubt this, where have I ever questioned this?

why feel the need to say if it was a white guy murdered we would feel differently
Because pretending you or I wouldn't is a lie.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 09, 2020, 07:05:53 PM
Because pretending you or I wouldn't is a lie. 
which brings us back to my original statement 

you are accusing me of being a racist

you have no basis for this

if tou would feel differently thats your business but dont drag me down in the gutter with you
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 09, 2020, 07:06:09 PM
Just shaking my damn head...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/09/nyregion/who-is-martin-gugino-buffalo-police.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/09/nyregion/who-is-martin-gugino-buffalo-police.html)

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1270333484528214018

And the fun bit...


Quote
POTUS' tweet seems to have been based on a report by One America News Network, a right-wing cable television channel, which claimed that Mr. Gugino had been trying to knock out the police officers’ radios with his cellphone — an idea that several of Mr. Gugino’s friends dismissed as ludicrous.
As an electrical engineer, let me say... That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works. 


I'm not aware of a cellphone on the market that can knock out the communication capacity of other electronics. It's one of the reasons that I don't have a problem with cellphones being left turned on on airplanes. I understand the concern, but I believe based upon my schooling and my further professional experience that it's 100% unfounded.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 09, 2020, 07:11:51 PM
I don't know, I assume it was lower.  Less people, fewer guns.

But you bring that up....segregation when it was the rule was bad.  But segregation when it's supposedly illegal is worse, no?
Fewer people, sure. But that doesn't affect "rate."  Housing density was probably greater, since "projects" are nearly always built to reduce residential density.
Fewer guns?  I don't know if that's the case.  But let's assume that it is.  Are you asserting "fewer guns = lower murder rate"?  Sometimes it works the other way around.  In any event, it's far more complex than using just one variable would imply.
I haven't really done an analysis of whether de facto segregation is worse than de jure segregation.  They both are bad.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 09, 2020, 07:17:53 PM
https://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/articles/arts-culture/techwood-homes (https://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/articles/arts-culture/techwood-homes)
I'd say, "There goes the Law of Unintended Consequences" again, except I doubt that they were unintended.  They often aren't.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 09, 2020, 07:20:21 PM
Do we have good statistical models on the "poverty causes increased violence" claim?  Or are there other factors involved?
I'm not asking rhetorically.  I think my 2nd question is closer to the mark, but I only have anecdotal evidence for that.
This I cannot say. I know they tend to pair. 

I can draw some logical reasons, but I don't have any models. It would be interesting if poverty followed violence.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 09, 2020, 07:25:20 PM
Or, I didn't see it until just now.
Didn't see what?  Seriously, I don't understand your post.
I've pointed out this Motte-and-Bailey thing to you before.  You say something outrageous and hyperbolic.  Then you get challenged on it.  Then you retreat and say this other thing on the same subject that is merely argumentative and within the bounds of reason, and you say that is what you meant all along.

OAM: "All blue-eyed people are jackasses!"
Respondent: "How can you say that, as you don't know all blue-eyed people?"
OAM: "Joe Shit is blue-eyed and he's a jackass!  That's what I meant!"
Respondent: :banghead:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 09, 2020, 07:27:24 PM
Why would anyone ADD beans?  Beans are tolerated, and too many of them ruin it.  Beans in chili are like lettuce on a burger - I get it, and it's fine, but don't get crazy with it.
You're right on chili, wrong on burgers.  Lettuce is fine on burgers.  Not mandatory, but fine.

P.S. Let me add that this is merely my opinion.  But I did work at a great hamburger joint when I was in college, I got a lot of "Hamburger 1113" in the process.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 09, 2020, 07:33:58 PM
Well, I think the chain goes like this:

  • Poverty reduces viable legal avenues for earning money.
  • Illicit avenues for earning money are lucrative, but carry significant risk [of violence].
  • The likelihood of choosing illicit avenues to earn money are related to the relative difference between the legal and illicit avenues.
  • Therefore, people more deeply in poverty are more likely to choose illicit avenues despite the risk.

That said, the dude in my fraternity house that was the "drug hookup" wasn't poor. We see it where well-off investment bankers end up insider trading, or you have Bernie Madoff Ponzi schemes because sometimes the illicit methods are just TOO juicy.

But I think that the reason that so many people in the inner cities turn to drugs and gangs is because they don't have other viable options.
Here's a bit of the evidence to the contrary to which I alluded.

(https://i.imgur.com/l9QpxoC.png)
It goes down during the Great Depression and goes up during the prosperous '60s.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 09, 2020, 07:37:07 PM
Were statistics back then reliably kept?
are statistics now reliably kept?

will they be reliably kept in for the near future?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 09, 2020, 07:45:27 PM
Public-employee unions are problematic in a way that private-sector unions are not.  Public employees' union dues go in part toward political contributions to the same people with whom they negotiate their pay and working rules.
are public unions really needed?

are the city, county, and state really treating employees that terribly that they require a union to fight for their rights?

do teachers, police, and road workers have terrible administration that would take advantage of them?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 09, 2020, 07:55:06 PM
are public unions really needed?

are the city, county, and state really treating employees that terribly that they require a union to fight for their rights?

do teachers, police, and road workers have terrible administration that would take advantage of them?
Per my previous comment, there's a fundamental problem with public unions that tends to work against the public good.
I think teachers' unions are one of the impediments to real reform in public education.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 09, 2020, 08:08:21 PM
some think police unions impede some things
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 09, 2020, 08:36:28 PM
Just shaking my damn head...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/09/nyregion/who-is-martin-gugino-buffalo-police.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/09/nyregion/who-is-martin-gugino-buffalo-police.html)

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1270333484528214018

And the fun bit...

As an electrical engineer, let me say... That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.


I'm not aware of a cellphone on the market that can knock out the communication capacity of other electronics. It's one of the reasons that I don't have a problem with cellphones being left turned on on airplanes. I understand the concern, but I believe based upon my schooling and my further professional experience that it's 100% unfounded.

I used to scoff when Rob Ford was mayor of Toronto and wondered how people could vote for that guy.  Welp.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2020, 08:53:51 PM
Didn't see what?  Seriously, I don't understand your post.
I've pointed out this Motte-and-Bailey thing to you before.  You say something outrageous and hyperbolic.  Then you get challenged on it.  Then you retreat and say this other thing on the same subject that is merely argumentative and within the bounds of reason, and you say that is what you meant all along.

OAM: "All blue-eyed people are jackasses!"
Respondent: "How can you say that, as you don't know all blue-eyed people?"
OAM: "Joe Shit is blue-eyed and he's a jackass!  That's what I meant!"
Respondent: :banghead:
You get bitchy when I don't respond in the time frame of your choosing.  Not sorry about that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2020, 08:54:37 PM
are public unions really needed?

are the city, county, and state really treating employees that terribly that they require a union to fight for their rights?

do teachers, police, and road workers have terrible administration that would take advantage of them?
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2020, 08:55:48 PM
Here's a bit of the evidence to the contrary to which I alluded.

(https://i.imgur.com/l9QpxoC.png)
It goes down during the Great Depression and goes up during the prosperous '60s.
LMAO

Prosperous for who?  You're making a joke, right?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2020, 08:59:19 PM
which brings us back to my original statement

you are accusing me of being a racist

you have no basis for this

if tou would feel differently thats your business but dont drag me down in the gutter with you
I'm not sure how I can put this politely.  
Umm....well first off, I haven't called you a racist.  You would know this because in my previous post of which you're responding to here, I linked us together.  See, I used the phrase "you or I", as in "we".  So if I'm calling you racist, then I'd be calling myself racist.

Do you believe that I think I'm racist?  And yes, I'm typing this in my mommy/teacher voice, where every sentence ends on a high note.  Because OMFG you're......something else.  Yeesh.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 09, 2020, 09:15:16 PM
You get bitchy when I don't respond in the time frame of your choosing.  Not sorry about that.
I have no idea what you are talking about.  I don't care if you ever respond to one of my posts or not.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2020, 09:18:29 PM
I just typed a long post about teaching and what kids need and what they do without it and how it aligns with what we're seeing out there today and lost the post.  Suuuuuper pissed.


CliffNotes version:
I've taught in Title 1 (poor) schools my whole career.
I assume whatever role is missing in each student's life - might be a listener, an encourager, a disciplinarian, affection, etc. - that's what I have to provide (along with teaching).
100% of the time a kid doesn't have any place or person they can turn to, they will act out in horrible ways.

The riots/looting is the same, exact thing.  Literally the only difference is their ages.  Not only do they feel like they have no one advocating for them, they have no hope of it in their future.  Riots and looting will happen FOREVER unless that portion of the population has hope or true advocacy, etc.

We can bicker and bitch at each other all day, but it doesn't change the fact that african americans are second class citizens in 2020.  Everyone knows they are.  And they shouldn't be, no one should. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 09, 2020, 09:18:35 PM
LMAO

Prosperous for who?  You're making a joke, right?
No joke, Jackass!  These prosperous 60s for everyone.

(https://i.imgur.com/HO1LcSb.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2020, 09:21:40 PM
No joke, Jackass!  These prosperous 60s for everyone.

(https://i.imgur.com/HO1LcSb.png)
You say everyone and post a graph that doesn't prove everyone benefited.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 09, 2020, 09:22:57 PM
OK.  Post your evidence to the contrary.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2020, 09:26:23 PM
You made a claim.  Support it.  It's not my job to prove you wrong, it's yours to show evidence that you're right.
It's called a burden of proof.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 09, 2020, 09:26:46 PM
Still waiting.

Here's another one for you to try to rebut.

(https://i.imgur.com/dhqjF0X.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2020, 09:28:25 PM
You're not following. 
Pretty graphs, though.   I'm going to get some food.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 09, 2020, 09:29:43 PM
Here's another bit of evidence, Mr. Wizard.

(https://i.imgur.com/XtiLaMl.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 09, 2020, 10:07:12 PM
I'm sure OAM will return with some rebuttal evidence.

In the meantime, I explored a link from Badge's link to the NPR story about New Deal programs turning integrated neighborhoods into segregated ones and I found this: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/10/19/498536077/interactive-redlining-map-zooms-in-on-americas-history-of-discrimination (https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/10/19/498536077/interactive-redlining-map-zooms-in-on-americas-history-of-discrimination).

And that led to this: https://dsl.richmond.edu/panorama/redlining/#loc=5/39.1/-94.58 (https://dsl.richmond.edu/panorama/redlining/#loc=5/39.1/-94.58).

Which is interesting and disturbing.  You can go to any of the cities shown and see how "redlining" played out in them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 10, 2020, 01:11:28 AM
Man, earlier tonight I was walking down the sidewalk, looking up at the stars because they are incredible out here in the middle of the desert, and then WHAM! I swing my right leg right into a GD prickly pear cactus that was hanging out into the sidewalk. And of course I had sandals on, so I had thorns from my toe tops up to my lower shin. WOO WEE! That sucked. 

File under: shit that would never happen in Ohio. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 10, 2020, 04:58:49 AM
Public-employee unions are problematic in a way that private-sector unions are not.  Public employees' union dues go in part toward political contributions to the same people with whom they negotiate their pay and working rules.
Winner winner.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 10, 2020, 05:03:03 AM
Cool, I got to look back 6 pages to find this, to prove I'm not avoiding it.  What a fun thread.

So despite my already specifying it's not calling anyone racist, I guess me saying it again will help you believe me?? 
A)  It's not racist to find things similar to yourself slightly more meaningful.  We all do it.  But some of us do it a tiny bit and some of us do it continually. 
Ex:  If a bunch of UNARMED white men were being murdered by cops, it would hit closer to home for white people.  That's not calling anyone racist, I deem it pretty much an easy given.  Unremarkable.

B)  Again, as I stated in the first post addressing this, it's about unarmed people being murdered by police.  If it was a mixture of white, latino, and black, I'm sure we'd all hold hands together in protest.  Maybe not, but it'd be more likely, wouldn't it? 


Now go ahead and tell me how I'm wrong and blah blah.
If it was? It actually is. 50% white, 25% black and 25% Hispanic. We discussed this.

I would likely join a protest if I weren't practicing social distancing still. I'd probably hold an "all lives matter" sign.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 10, 2020, 05:07:24 AM
Per my previous comment, there's a fundamental problem with public unions that tends to work against the public good.
I think teachers' unions are one of the impediments to real reform in public education.
Most definitely. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 10, 2020, 05:13:27 AM
Man, earlier tonight I was walking down the sidewalk, looking up at the stars because they are incredible out here in the middle of the desert, and then WHAM! I swing my right leg right into a GD prickly pear cactus that was hanging out into the sidewalk. And of course I had sandals on, so I had thorns from my toe tops up to my lower shin. WOO WEE! That sucked.

File under: shit that would never happen in Ohio.
Ouch.

You know what the problem is here in Florida? No-see-um bugs.

You can't see them, and you don't know they bit you for hours, sometimes 10-12 hours. And then it's a bitch of an itch.

Finally found some stuff to work for me, but forgot to put it on last night whilst loading up the car. So, I'll bring some nice looking legs (like acne) back to Illinois.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 10, 2020, 06:59:17 AM
Ouch.

You know what the problem is here in Florida? No-see-um bugs.

You can't see them, and you don't know they bit you for hours, sometimes 10-12 hours. And then it's a bitch of an itch.

Finally found some stuff to work for me, but forgot to put it on last night whilst loading up the car. So, I'll bring some nice looking legs (like acne) back to Illinois.
The No-see-ums SUCK. 

I have found these coils to be very effective if your just trying to enjoy your patio or back yard. Very inexpensive at Publix
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 10, 2020, 07:00:59 AM
And this works greAt if your walking around- it actually smell like citrus so you won’t stink up the joint.

It is sweat resistant and orange “flavored” lol

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 10, 2020, 07:19:09 AM
A long time ago, I was asked to take a look at insect repellents and whether the company might have an interest in the area.

After talking to some experts and reading, my answer was nope.  I think the boss wanted some "chemical free" way to repelling bugs.

No DEET.

It is a somewhat interesting arena, the regulatory aspects are a bit difficult.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 10, 2020, 07:33:39 AM
Down here in Florida they can be bad like badge said.  In your yard or even when I am on my boat fishing in the back channels. 

They even have the no-see-um dance.  When someone is using one foot to scratch their other lower leg. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 10, 2020, 07:40:49 AM
We live high enough that bugs rarely get here if we're on the deck.  And bugs don't seem to be that bad if we're walking.  

We looked at one condo on the 28th floor of another building.  The deck was too narrow for my tastes and the height was scary, for us.  The view was nice, but you can wake up one morning and find that blocked by construction across the street, and you paid extra for a view that now is of another building.

I see two more buildings were reviewed last night, which means they are getting close to starting construction.  I had thought things would get delayed more.  I know the reconstruction of Phipp's Plaza has ceased.

https://www.connect.media/simon-suspends-construction-on-buckheads-phipps-plaza-redevelopment/ (https://www.connect.media/simon-suspends-construction-on-buckheads-phipps-plaza-redevelopment/)

Everything else appears to be going full bore ahead.  I'm very curious what happens to the office market in a year or two.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 10, 2020, 07:45:11 AM
We live high enough that bugs rarely get here if we're on the deck.  And bugs don't seem to be that bad if we're walking. 

We looked at one condo on the 28th floor of another building.  The deck was too narrow for my tastes and the height was scary, for us.  The view was nice, but you can wake up one morning and find that blocked by construction across the street, and you paid extra for a view that now is of another building.

I see two more buildings were reviewed last night, which means they are getting close to starting construction.  I had thought things would get delayed more.  I know the reconstruction of Phipp's Plaza has ceased.

https://www.connect.media/simon-suspends-construction-on-buckheads-phipps-plaza-redevelopment/ (https://www.connect.media/simon-suspends-construction-on-buckheads-phipps-plaza-redevelopment/)

Everything else appears to be going full bore ahead.  I'm very curious what happens to the office market in a year or two.


I can tell you the mortgage market is robust.  My team’s pipeline of applications is as voluminous as is has benn in years.  Granted- about 70% of it is refinance. And, Florida has large populations moving in from the Northeast states to escape super high tax rates. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 10, 2020, 08:14:23 AM
I found a spray called No-no-see-um. It's made with natural oils and water. It's the only thing that has worked for me.

https://nonoseeum.com/ (https://nonoseeum.com/)


We had our cage redone with a combination of Florida glass on the low parts (those little shits fly low) and on the sides (privacy). The rest of the cage is the no-see-um screen.

These things cost me a lot of money (and pain). Had to see a doctor early on in the visit, as one got infected. Steroids, antibiotic and hydroxyzine. Oh boy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 10, 2020, 08:20:34 AM
Our realtor here became a good friend and we've been chatting by email.  He says business here is booming, residential.  He says the closings are interesting, buyers and sellers are in separate rooms.  I checked the local condo market around me and there isn't much available, so inventory is very tight.  There will be a lot in 2 years or so when some of these construction projects open, and I imagine they are preselling of course.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 10, 2020, 08:29:55 AM
Our realtor here became a good friend and we've been chatting by email.  He says business here is booming, residential.  He says the closings are interesting, buyers and sellers are in separate rooms.  I checked the local condo market around me and there isn't much available, so inventory is very tight.  There will be a lot in 2 years or so when some of these construction projects open, and I imagine they are preselling of course.


My bank is innovating.  We can now do your closing via web/ video from comfort of your couch    Notary comes on and walks you through it in FaceTime type environment 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 10, 2020, 08:30:46 AM
I found a spray called No-no-see-um. It's made with natural oils and water. It's the only thing that has worked for me.

https://nonoseeum.com/ (https://nonoseeum.com/)


We had our cage redone with a combination of Florida glass on the low parts (those little shits fly low) and on the sides (privacy). The rest of the cage is the no-see-um screen.

These things cost me a lot of money (and pain). Had to see a doctor early on in the visit, as one got infected. Steroids, antibiotic and hydroxyzine. Oh boy.
Thanks badge- going to try that because if it works without DEET I am all in. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 10, 2020, 10:53:26 AM
If it was? It actually is. 50% white, 25% black and 25% Hispanic. We discussed this.

I would likely join a protest if I weren't practicing social distancing still. I'd probably hold an "all lives matter" sign.
might get your arse kicked
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 10, 2020, 10:56:16 AM
might get your arse kicked
True. I can honestly see why some get so angry at that retort.  I am not taking a side on it- but I totally get it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 10, 2020, 10:56:36 AM
we have here what some folks call no-see-ums

I don't call them that because I can see um

and my eyes are bad
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 10, 2020, 10:59:13 AM
my daughter was at a protest here in NW Iowa, she had a BLM sign, she was confronted by some aggressive black women.  She wasn't scared, but she got a little nervous.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 10, 2020, 11:01:22 AM
my daughter was at a protest here in NW Iowa, she had a BLM sign, she was confronted by some aggressive black women.  She wasn't scared, but she got a little nervous.
Why?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 10, 2020, 11:02:29 AM
I guess those ladies didn't think she was genuine in her support of their cause
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 10, 2020, 11:04:18 AM
I guess those ladies didn't think she was genuine in her support of their cause
Wow. Tough crowd. There is no way to be correct. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 10, 2020, 11:42:08 AM
Finally got a chance to actually drive the Jeep with the new stereo. Holy cow what an improvement!

It was a short jaunt, as I had to transfer the kids back to their mom this morning. 

On the way over there, I heard background vocals on The Raconteurs' Steady As She Goes that I'd never heard before. I was worried that as it was streaming (SiriusXM app) that the limited quality of the source would limit the value of the stereo components, but it was great.

After dropping them off, I threw in a CD of Dr Dre's 2001 album, and turned it up a little more. Though the sub is only 8", it's plenty when you push a couple hundred watts through it. More bass than that would be unbalanced for my taste.

It's still not fully tuned, as I haven't had time, so I just set the gains to midpoint and crossover to the specified frequency range of the sub. Probably need to play around with the radio's EQ as well as I think the treble is a little too high. But man, I forgot what it was like to have a GOOD system. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 10, 2020, 11:43:27 AM
Finally got a chance to actually drive the Jeep with the new stereo. Holy cow what an improvement!

It was a short jaunt, as I had to transfer the kids back to their mom this morning.

On the way over there, I heard background vocals on The Raconteurs' Steady As She Goes that I'd never heard before. I was worried that as it was streaming (SiriusXM app) that the limited quality of the source would limit the value of the stereo components, but it was great.

After dropping them off, I threw in a CD of Dr Dre's 2001 album, and turned it up a little more. Though the sub is only 8", it's plenty when you push a couple hundred watts through it. More bass than that would be unbalanced for my taste.

It's still not fully tuned, as I haven't had time, so I just set the gains to midpoint and crossover to the specified frequency range of the sub. Probably need to play around with the radio's EQ as well as I think the treble is a little too high. But man, I forgot what it was like to have a GOOD system.
Game changer!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 10, 2020, 11:56:22 AM
pretty sure I'm glad I'm not familiar with Dr. Dre's album
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 10, 2020, 11:59:25 AM
The stock stereo in my F150 is really good.  The stock stereo in my Tahoe was outstanding.  The one in the new Jeep... isn't great.  It's mostly the speakers.  Poor frequency response, poor sound quality.  I think the head unit is fine, but new speakers are on the list.

The stock sound system on the Toyota convertible was pretty bad too, even though it was their JBL premium sound or whatever, and I had to replace their POS OEM subwoofer twice before I said eff it and installed a custom replacement, that I had to fabricate a new mounting bracket for, because they intentionally chose a non-standard size for their OEM sub.  I put in all new speakers and a new head unit at the same time.  And then we sold it a year later...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 10, 2020, 12:05:29 PM



1. James Franklin, Penn State

2. Ryan Day, Ohio State

3. Jim Harbaugh, Michigan

4. Kirk Ferentz, Iowa

5. P.J. Fleck, Minnesota

6. Paul Chryst, Wisconsin

7. Pat Fitzgerald, Northwestern

8. Scott Frost, Nebraska

9. Greg Schiano, Rutgers

10. Jeff Brohm, Purdue

11. Tom Allen, Indiana

12. Lovie Smith, Illinois

13. Mel Tucker, Michigan State

14. Mike Locksley, Maryland

https://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/2020/06/big-ten-coach-rankings-where-does-rutgers-greg-schiano-land-whos-no-1.html (https://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/2020/06/big-ten-coach-rankings-where-does-rutgers-greg-schiano-land-whos-no-1.html)


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 10, 2020, 12:09:19 PM
I think some folks confuse noise level and booming base with a good sound system.  I can hear it as they drive past at times.  (I'm not referring to anyone discussing this here.)    The wife's Caddy came with some kind of upgraded sound system, I would have been fine with the base, and that car was fairly quiet at speed.  I never felt a reason to turn it up very loud.  Of course, I'm an old fart.

The GTI is not as quiet, and also has an upgraded stereo, and it's fine, I suppose.  The only time I really care much is when I'm at home anyway, but I can see in a Jeep why a better system would be more enjoyable.

I was surprised how much better my home system sounded when I upgraded my receiver.  The old Onkyo was 15 years old and I gather it makes a difference.  It's sitting in my office, I never hooked it up even though I have speakers here I could use.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 10, 2020, 12:14:43 PM

Fwiw it is spelled bass, like the fish. Not base, like the sporting equipment. 

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bc/ae/d7/bcaed75e8eb0944803d16704c2b3c3ad.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 10, 2020, 12:20:19 PM
I meant the base stereo system in the car instead of the upgrade.  The GTI is the Autobahn series and the Caddy was the next to the top trim line.  One thing I miss now is the memory seat.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on June 10, 2020, 12:25:34 PM
I think some folks confuse noise level and booming base with a good sound system.  I can hear it as they drive past at times.  (I'm not referring to anyone discussing this here.)    The wife's Caddy came with some kind of upgraded sound system, I would have been fine with the base, and that car was fairly quiet at speed.  I never felt a reason to turn it up very loud.  Of course, I'm an old fart.

The GTI is not as quiet, and also has an upgraded stereo, and it's fine, I suppose.  The only time I really care much is when I'm at home anyway, but I can see in a Jeep why a better system would be more enjoyable.

I was surprised how much better my home system sounded when I upgraded my receiver.  The old Onkyo was 15 years old and I gather it makes a difference.  It's sitting in my office, I never hooked it up even though I have speakers here I could use.
This old fart likes to play his classic rock music loud and my loss of hearing shows it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 10, 2020, 12:26:12 PM
Oh okay. My bad. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 10, 2020, 12:35:08 PM
I crank up some classical pieces at home, when the wife allows it.  Or she isn't home.  She worries about the neighbor, who has told her he has never heard it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 10, 2020, 01:05:34 PM
I think some folks confuse noise level and booming base with a good sound system.  I can hear it as they drive past at times.  (I'm not referring to anyone discussing this here.)   
Yeah, I get that. The one thing that I will say is that when you hear a sound system from outside the car, you probably don't get any real sense of what sort of fidelity exists inside the car. The bass is the only thing that really travels outside the car.

But I think there are a lot of people who think that loud = good.


Quote
The wife's Caddy came with some kind of upgraded sound system, I would have been fine with the base, and that car was fairly quiet at speed.
What pisses me off the most about this build is that I ended up originally getting the Rubicon with the "Premium" audio system. And each thing that Jeep added to the system just made the rebuild worse...


All told, the design decisions made for the "Premium" system aren't very premium. And worse, the system was so intertwined as designed that the only way to make it right was to replace everything. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 10, 2020, 01:55:40 PM
Ive been delegated to listening to music with my earphones from my lap top

Im envious 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 10, 2020, 02:49:38 PM
I found a spray called No-no-see-um. It's made with natural oils and water. It's the only thing that has worked for me.

https://nonoseeum.com/ (https://nonoseeum.com/)

They're called gnats in FL.

Just wait for lovebug season - your car has no idea what's coming.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 10, 2020, 02:51:03 PM
I guess those ladies didn't think she was genuine in her support of their cause
Is that what your daughter said?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 10, 2020, 02:56:04 PM
If it was? It actually is. 50% white, 25% black and 25% Hispanic. We discussed this.
Overall population percentages:
60 white
13 black
18 hispanic

I'd be pissed if my race was being murdered while unarmed at twice the rate.  I think we all would.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 10, 2020, 03:25:18 PM
I can tell you the mortgage market is robust.  My team’s pipeline of applications is as voluminous as is has benn in years.  Granted- about 70% of it is refinance. And, Florida has large populations moving in from the Northeast states to escape super high tax rates.
And the funny thing is that the "immigrants" will tend to vote for higher taxes, like the ones they have just fled.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 10, 2020, 03:31:52 PM
Yeah, I get that. The one thing that I will say is that when you hear a sound system from outside the car, you probably don't get any real sense of what sort of fidelity exists inside the car. The bass is the only thing that really travels outside the car.

But I think there are a lot of people who think that loud = good.

What pisses me off the most about this build is that I ended up originally getting the Rubicon with the "Premium" audio system. And each thing that Jeep added to the system just made the rebuild worse...

  • It's customary to drive amplifiers with line-level outputs instead of amplified speaker outputs. But because they cheaped out and used the stock head unit, their system drives the amplifier with speaker-level outputs. This ends up amplifying noise.
  • Replacing the head unit but not the amp ends up losing out on all fade control, because they control the fade in the amplifier using the CAN bus from the radio, not using the actual speaker outputs.
  • It's normal when you have main speakers and tweeters (component speakers) to drive them together with one channel and then use a crossover between the two. Instead, they gave each tweeter its own channel. That's just one reason the stock amplifier is an 8-channel amp unnecessarily.
  • They didn't even put highpass filters on the amplifier channels going to the tweeters, instead using an RC circuit at the tweeter itself with a RIDICULOUS filtering frequency. As such, the stock "Premium" system has tweeters in pillars on the dash that you can't even hear. One of the first things I did was change a capacitor on each tweeter to reduce the frequency at which the highpass allows signal. This in itself was a huge improvement and I could hear the tweeters after that.
  • Everything in the amplifier is 2 ohm outputs, while the most common aftermarket speakers are 4 ohm speakers. And of course the stock speakers for the base system are 4 ohm, and the aftermarket speakers Mopar recommends are 4 ohm, without mentioning that the premium amp is 2 ohm.
  • They allot another 2 channels for the subwoofer. Which is good, in the sense that they are at least doubling output to 90W instead of 45W. But that's still underpowered for a sub. But a better-designed amp that had a mono channel for the sub might have been a better idea.

All told, the design decisions made for the "Premium" system aren't very premium. And worse, the system was so intertwined as designed that the only way to make it right was to replace everything.
Is this a general thing?  Is it generally better when buying a new car to go with the standard sound system and upgrade with after-market equipment?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 10, 2020, 03:32:58 PM
I guess those ladies didn't think she was genuine in her support of their cause
You can't expand your base of support if you won't accept converts.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 10, 2020, 03:39:35 PM
Is this a general thing?  Is it generally better when buying a new car to go with the standard sound system and upgrade with after-market equipment?
We used to have a "radio delete" option.  The upgraded sound systems are often very expensive pricewise.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 10, 2020, 03:40:11 PM
Overall population percentages:
60 white
13 black
18 hispanic

I'd be pissed if my race was being murdered while unarmed at twice the rate.  I think we all would.
Do you ever accept evidence contrary to what you believe?
There have been several studies that show that African Americans are not being killed at a higher rate than whites under the same circumstances.  The reasons that African Americans are killed at twice the rate that whites are is because they commit the type of crimes that may end in deadly confrontations at a higher rate than whites do.
African Americans are being hassled, harrassed, and pushed around by police much more than whites doing the same things.  That's where the real racial disparity is.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 10, 2020, 03:41:26 PM
We used to have a "radio delete" option.  The upgraded sound systems are often very expensive pricewise.
Are you referring to the manufacturers' upgraded systems or after-market?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 10, 2020, 04:02:30 PM
Is this a general thing?  Is it generally better when buying a new car to go with the standard sound system and upgrade with after-market equipment?
Ehh, not necessarily. My Ford Flex has the premium sound system and I don't think I'll ever make a single change to it. For that vehicle, "good" is good enough.

For any serious audiophile, if you go into a purchase KNOWING you're going aftermarket eventually, it's usually better to go with the standard system and build it your own way. Otherwise you're paying for upgraded components that you're going to throw away. Because the standard systems are basically never as high quality as high-end aftermarket components, but you pay a premium buying it. 

It's like the difference between a turnkey house and a fixer upper. Turnkey is great if you don't plan on changing things. If you find a turnkey house and it's got acceptable finishings, even if they're not perfect, and you're not going to change it, turnkey is easy. If you know that you're really particular and you have a unique vision for how a house should come together, a fixer upper is often better because your acquisition cost is lower and you're not just wasting money on the last owner's upgrades which you're going to throw away. 

I think I know how Jeep got there, of course. They started specifying a premium audio package that could be as common across multiple vehicle lines as possible. I neglected to mention that the stock amp isn't just an amp, it's a sound processor. So my guess is that by standardizing on a head unit across multiple vehicles, and an amp/sound processor across multiple vehicles, they have commonality of parts supply and they can just program the sound processor for each vehicle based on its configuration. Maybe the other vehicles really make better use of an 8-channel amp, in a fully enclosed SUV, and sound great, and they shoe-horned it into the Wrangler. I doubt that the design was, from the start, Wrangler-specific. I think if it was, they'd have done things differently. 

My Jeep was bought to be a daily driver. I never intended to upgrade the stereo, and frankly the job got away from me lol... It was only when I replaced the head unit, which I had to do because 2009 head units didn't have Bluetooth, that I started to go down the rabbit hole and see how inadequate the stock system was. 

But what I ended up with was a system that's higher-end than stock, that was picked specifically to meet my likes, dislikes, and budget. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 10, 2020, 04:03:33 PM
Are you referring to the manufacturers' upgraded systems or after-market?
You could order a car with no radio "radio delete option", and save a few bucks.  The wiring was there.  Then you could easily drop in an aftermarket whatever.

This was when car radios would get stolen left and right if you had a nice one.  Like a Blaupunkt with Quadraphonic Sound.  But what I needed was a curve ball.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 10, 2020, 04:34:36 PM
This was when car radios would get stolen left and right if you had a nice one.  Like a Blaupunkt with Quadraphonic Sound.  
That was a huge thing in this build.

In a car without a top, I wanted to avoid anything that screamed "there's a good audio system here" to the world. In another car, I'd probably have gone for a head unit with a fancy touchscreen, but instead ended up choosing a head unit that had the audio specs I wanted but looks pretty low-end. 

I selected an amp that had all the specs I wanted, but that I knew was small enough to be hidden in the dash. The Jeep already has no trunk space, so I didn't want to put it there, and I didn't want it to be even slightly conspicuous being mounted somewhere like under the seat. 

I think aftermarket radios in general are a lot less common these days--because every car doesn't have a radio, it has an "infotainment system" now. I think for those vehicles, replacing things like speakers and amplifiers is easy, but many people don't want to get rid of all the rest of the integrated system.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 10, 2020, 04:55:01 PM
That was a huge thing in this build.

In a car without a top, I wanted to avoid anything that screamed "there's a good audio system here" to the world. In another car, I'd probably have gone for a head unit with a fancy touchscreen, but instead ended up choosing a head unit that had the audio specs I wanted but looks pretty low-end.

I selected an amp that had all the specs I wanted, but that I knew was small enough to be hidden in the dash. The Jeep already has no trunk space, so I didn't want to put it there, and I didn't want it to be even slightly conspicuous being mounted somewhere like under the seat.

I think aftermarket radios in general are a lot less common these days--because every car doesn't have a radio, it has an "infotainment system" now. I think for those vehicles, replacing things like speakers and amplifiers is easy, but many people don't want to get rid of all the rest of the integrated system.
Totally agree.  That's one reason I'm okay with sticking to the Jeep's current head unit and just upgrading speakers.  And to be honest, it's a high-end Rubicon with leather seats and the best head unit that Jeep installs in these things, with SatNav, SatRad, integrated HDD, and lots of other bells and whistles for controlling the car's systems.    
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 10, 2020, 05:15:54 PM
You could order a car with no radio "radio delete option", and save a few bucks.  The wiring was there.  Then you could easily drop in an aftermarket whatever.

This was when car radios would get stolen left and right if you had a nice one.  Like a Blaupunkt with Quadraphonic Sound.  But what I needed was a curve ball.
A good curve ball is hard to find.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 10, 2020, 06:03:59 PM
I had a slow loopy curve in high school.  It was good enough to have right handers bailing out almost every time.  I can't throw hard enough now to make anything break.  I did find a weird arm angle where I can throw without pain, not very hard, but without pain is good.

I had a few memorable strike outs in HS, especially when I was sophomore.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on June 11, 2020, 09:33:43 AM
And that led to this: https://dsl.richmond.edu/panorama/redlining/#loc=5/39.1/-94.58 (https://dsl.richmond.edu/panorama/redlining/#loc=5/39.1/-94.58).

Which is interesting and disturbing.  You can go to any of the cities shown and see how "redlining" played out in them.
THANK YOU!

This is what I was looking for the other day when I was talking about overlaying freeway routing with neighborhoods that were majority black and lacking in political clout. Couple the red-lined map of St. Paul with this map:

(https://www.mnopedia.org/sites/default/files/styles/multimedia/public/Book%20HT%20168%20M5%20A8%201965%20page%2047.jpg?itok=UmCzekKB)

...and you'll see my point. The northern alternative involved going to the Great Northern Railway and hammering out a host of agreements with an entity that didn't give a damn what the MHD thought (and still doesn't). Why get in a hard negotiation with the railroads when you can either buy under an alias or condemn? Add in the removal of municipal veto over highway projects in 1959, and account for the nature of MHD at the time (a bunker full of white male engineers with a reputation for getting things done), it was no surprise that this was the route that was picked.

Further information about this section of I-94 can be found here: https://www.mnopedia.org/event/neighborhood-resistance-i-94-1953-1965

I (https://www.mnopedia.org/event/neighborhood-resistance-i-94-1953-1965)nterestingly enough, the two segments of urban freeway that MHD/MnDOT had the hardest time building were I-35E south from downtown St. Paul, and an expansion of US 12/Wayzata Blvd. west out of downtown Minneapolis. In a shocking development, both were through areas that were considered desirable in that mapping report.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 11, 2020, 11:47:34 AM
Is that what your daughter said?
yes, they were questioning her motive for being there
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 11, 2020, 11:51:19 AM
You can't expand your base of support if you won't accept converts.
they didn't seem interested in expanding the base at that time
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 11, 2020, 12:13:02 PM
How in hell can we as Americans allow a big portion of Seattle to be taken over by thugs and do nothing about it

If I were the President I would give the governor of Washington 24 hours to take back his city or Federal

force would do it for him
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 11, 2020, 12:18:05 PM
Mayor Jenny A. Durkan

&

governor Jay Inslee

F them, let them deal with it.  Maybe they won't be re-elected
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 11, 2020, 12:24:12 PM
Mayor Jenny A. Durkan

&

governor Jay Inslee

F them, let them deal with it.  Maybe they won't be re-elected

I share your sentiment but my fear is that if we dont take decisive action on this quick that it will happen other places
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 11, 2020, 01:13:10 PM
won't happen in Texas

or most other red states and red cities
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on June 11, 2020, 01:16:07 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/stillgray/status/1270967129370550273?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fcollege%2Fwest-virginia%2Fboard%2F103782%2FContents%2Ffree-america-148058672%2F%3Fpage%3D2
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2020, 01:23:56 PM
It's a small portion of Seattle, not some huge swath.  I think it's better to let them stew a few days.  Whoever "they" are will splinter into groups and fight among themselves and many will just go home.  Then I'd send police in at 3 AM retake the station and clear the crap out of the streets and the next morning arrest anyone obstructing traffic or spitting or jay walking.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 11, 2020, 01:37:20 PM
It's a small portion of Seattle, not some huge swath.  I think it's better to let them stew a few days.  Whoever "they" are will splinter into groups and fight among themselves and many will just go home.  Then I'd send police in at 3 AM retake the station and clear the crap out of the streets and the next morning arrest anyone obstructing traffic or spitting or jay walking.
although I dont agree about waiting at least its a plan which is probably much more then Seattle's leaders have

they are so scared of offending BLM they are paralyzed
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2020, 01:56:24 PM
If the objective is to reclaim control as efficiently and effectively as possible without a major fracas, I think my plan would be workable.  These little fiefdoms crop up every now and again, and one common feature is internal bickering.  Everyone has an idea and wants to be heard and no one wants to follow.

Maybe it's like a typical chat room.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 11, 2020, 02:04:24 PM
If the objective is to reclaim control as efficiently and effectively as possible without a major fracas, I think my plan would be workable.  These little fiefdoms crop up every now and again, and one common feature is internal bickering.  Everyone has an idea and wants to be heard and no one wants to follow.

Maybe it's like a typical chat room.
All I can say is that this wouldnt be tolerated in Texas

maybe thats too redneck but never the less is a fact

we would never allow thugs to take over several blocks and just sit back and hope they started bickering

This is America and those residents in the area taken over need assistance and thats the duty of the Mayor to provide
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2020, 02:16:42 PM
I view Austin as being somewhat comparable to Seattle, without the risk of losing a kidney.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 11, 2020, 02:21:47 PM
I view Austin as being somewhat comparable to Seattle, without the risk of losing a kidney.
its true that Austin has turned more and more blue in the last ten years but I would bet my last dollar they would not let a bunch of thugs to take over 6 square blocks for any large amount of time

The Mayor of Seattle is gutless 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 11, 2020, 02:40:22 PM
The APD used tear gas to clear protesters off I35, so I don't imagine they'd let rioters control part of the city for any prolonged amount of time.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 11, 2020, 02:41:16 PM
I view Austin as being somewhat comparable to Seattle, without the risk of losing a kidney.
CD- what is the story with the voting issues in Georgia the other day?

of course it is being largely construed by media and A certain Female politician who is trying out for VP, as voter suppression perpetrated of course by a Republican Governor.  
But I was under the impression that the issues were heavily concentrated in 2 counties- both of which have County Election Commissioners who are Dems??
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2020, 03:02:24 PM
Nearly as I can tell, they have new voting machines that didn't always work right.  The poll workers were also often confused and unhelpful.

I'd note also we got a letter in the mail yesterday informing us of a change in our polling location, a day after the election.  The letter was dated May 22.

I tend to think "new things" often don't work quite right and it's not because of intent.

In Ohio, once the wife messed up her ballot and the poll workers were absolutely clueless about how to get her another one.  It took an hour to sort it out, I was rather annoyed.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 11, 2020, 03:12:59 PM
Nearly as I can tell, they have new voting machines that didn't always work right.  The poll workers were also often confused and unhelpful.

I'd note also we got a letter in the mail yesterday informing us of a change in our polling location, a day after the election.  The letter was dated May 22.

I tend to think "new things" often don't work quite right and it's not because of intent.

In Ohio, once the wife messed up her ballot and the poll workers were absolutely clueless about how to get her another one.  It took an hour to sort it out, I was rather annoyed.


wasnt this mostly a primary vote 

if so why would anyone try to sabotage it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2020, 03:18:52 PM
Because nefarious Antifa types in concert with the KKK and the Russians try and sabotage everything.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 11, 2020, 03:37:49 PM
Because nefarious Antifa types in concert with the KKK and the Russians try and sabotage everything.


right
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2020, 03:41:46 PM
Humans often seem prone to believing various and sundry conspiracy theories, or notions.  I find Occam's Razor is USUALLY of value.  I read somewhere that folks want to believe SOMEONE is behind all this, when usually it's just incompetence.

I also think folks who hold a lot of conspiracist explanations for many things like to believe THEY have inside information and the rest of us rubes are naive.

In general, it does me no good whether I "believe" UFOs are aliens or not.  So long as they don't convincingly reveal themselves, it doesn't change anything for me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 11, 2020, 03:47:42 PM
Humans often seem prone to believing various and sundry conspiracy theories, or notions.  I find Occam's Razor is USUALLY of value.  I read somewhere that folks want to believe SOMEONE is behind all this, when usually it's just incompetence.

I also think folks who hold a lot of conspiracist explanations for many things like to believe THEY have inside information and the rest of us rubes are naive.

In general, it does me no good whether I "believe" UFOs are aliens or not.  So long as they don't convincingly reveal themselves, it doesn't change anything for me.
No conspiracy theory here.  Just good old fashioned incompetence- then all the narratives afterward as well as the finger pointing.
I thought you might have insight to help me weed through the noise since you are local. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2020, 03:50:21 PM
Sorry, I'm not paying much attention to local "news".  I tried to follow the protest situation for a while.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on June 11, 2020, 03:55:52 PM
Sorry, I'm not paying much attention to local "news".  I tried to follow the protest situation for a while.
I know it's pointless, and I have a million better ways to follow the news.  But I had a DVR set for the 6:00 local news and 6:30 NBC national news that I would watch after work each night.  Oddly, since the pandemic hit, I've stopped.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on June 11, 2020, 04:26:25 PM
My consumption of podcasts has crashed since the pandemic started. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on June 11, 2020, 05:38:32 PM
My consumption of podcasts has crashed since the pandemic started.
The comedy ones, are tolerable.  The sports ones, need to lean into the simulations.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 11, 2020, 10:40:12 PM
Fuck cancer. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 11, 2020, 10:50:01 PM
Fuck cancer.
word up homey, is there something up?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 11, 2020, 10:50:38 PM
Fuck cancer.
Indeed.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 11, 2020, 11:13:20 PM
Problem 1: wife's best friend has breast cancer. Technically stage 3. Probably good prognosis. I broke "lockdown" a few weeks ago to shave her head because nobody else thought they could do it without bawling. I did it. I'm glad to do it rather than someone impersonal. But that's not something anyone should have to do. That one has dealt with too much negative BS in her life to deserve this. She spent 5 years taking care of her mom with early onset Alzheimer's. Her dad is a junkie. Her sister faces thyroid cancer last year. She's not 40 yet. It's crap. 


Problem 2: wife's aunt was complaining about earaches. Turns out it's cancer spreading. She was supposed to have a 13 hour surgery today. They aborted it when they saw it's in her carotid and said "you have 6 months". Nothing they can do.

Just angry. Good people. They don't need this. But that's the world. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 12, 2020, 12:45:41 AM
Problem 1: wife's best friend has breast cancer. Technically stage 3. Probably good prognosis. I broke "lockdown" a few weeks ago to shave her head because nobody else thought they could do it without bawling. I did it. I'm glad to do it rather than someone impersonal. But that's not something anyone should have to do. That one has dealt with too much negative BS in her life to deserve this. She spent 5 years taking care of her mom with early onset Alzheimer's. Her dad is a junkie. Her sister faces thyroid cancer last year. She's not 40 yet. It's crap.


Problem 2: wife's aunt was complaining about earaches. Turns out it's cancer spreading. She was supposed to have a 13 hour surgery today. They aborted it when they saw it's in her carotid and said "you have 6 months". Nothing they can do.

Just angry. Good people. They don't need this. But that's the world.
sorry to hear about this

stay strong and try to remain positive  

they are doing wonders these days in the medical field treating cancer
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2020, 07:57:32 AM
That story doesn't belong on my cheerful thread obviously.  We are all very sorry to hear about this.  I'm glad to hear you did something for her that was hard to do.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2020, 08:45:42 AM
hang in there, bwarb

life is tough
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2020, 09:53:41 AM
The wife and try each day to be thankful for something.  We're fortunate we can do that.  We've both survived some tough times.

Helping others when it's hard to do is a blessing in a way, even though, and perhaps because, it's hard.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 12, 2020, 10:13:46 AM
Very sorry to hear that, bwarb.  Stay positive as much as you can.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 12, 2020, 10:37:24 AM
No worries... Just had to get that out of my system last night.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 12, 2020, 11:32:13 AM
The siege continues in Seattle 


The occupiers have declared it a police free zone

Seattles mayor just laughs it off saying we may have a block party with the summer of love

she is bat shit crazy

Everyone thinks Trump cant send in federal troops but they are wrong and I fear this is where its going

What do you do when local authorities refuse to protect their citizens
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2020, 11:34:30 AM
are citizens being harmed?

are there cries for help that are not being addressed?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 12, 2020, 11:39:15 AM
are citizens being harmed?

are there cries for help that are not being addressed?
according to news reports there is some extortion happening where small business owners are being forced to pay for protection

but it really doesnt matter whether folks are being hurt or not

these people have set themselves up as the unelected government guarding the area with guns

cant be allowed or it will spread
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2020, 12:01:34 PM
well, it matters some if no one is being harmed.  I suppose it's only a matter of time before there is an issue.

it is being allowed and it hasn't spread yet

I'm with you, I don't like it and don't think it should be allowed, but bringing in the SWAT team at this time might make matters far worse than letting this run it's course.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2020, 12:04:15 PM
I think the leaders are already bickering.  There is almost no chance they could form any kind of coherent "government" or leadership.  Whoever has guns will rule.  Hit'em at 3 AM and clean it out, on the map part of it is a baseball field.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 12, 2020, 12:13:45 PM
I think the Mayor is holding back hoping Trump will send in troops

sad to see politics is a higher priority then the citizens
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2020, 02:05:17 PM
hopefully, the Pres won't do that

but, if he does, I think the federal troops should remove the mayor from office
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2020, 02:06:12 PM
The governor has the authority to being in the NG here.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2020, 02:11:32 PM
apparently, the Governor is siding with the Mayor

probably because of party affiliation 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 12, 2020, 02:44:43 PM
You guys do realize that if the mayor/governor look inept and POTUS sends in troops and clears the area, that helps POTUS' reelection chances, right? 

POTUS' supporters are the ones saying "we need to put a stop to this" and if POTUS sends in the troops, that shows them that he's putting a stop to it. Maybe with a little tear gas and some roughing up, but for these protesters, I think most of POTUS' supporters view that as a bonus. 

I don't see how the mayor/governor showing that they can't control the situation and needing Daddy to come in and clean it up hurts POTUS?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2020, 02:47:54 PM
Maybe with a little tear gas and some roughing up, but for these protesters, I think most of POTUS' supporters view that as a bonus.

I don't see this as a bonus, but I'm not a big supporter of POTUS
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 12, 2020, 02:58:09 PM
You guys do realize that if the mayor/governor look inept and POTUS sends in troops and clears the area, that helps POTUS' reelection chances, right?

POTUS' supporters are the ones saying "we need to put a stop to this" and if POTUS sends in the troops, that shows them that he's putting a stop to it. Maybe with a little tear gas and some roughing up, but for these protesters, I think most of POTUS' supporters view that as a bonus.

I don't see how the mayor/governor showing that they can't control the situation and needing Daddy to come in and clean it up hurts POTUS?
I think its a situation where if it goes right the news will be down played by the media but if even one person is killed the media will fry Trump

Im beginning to come around to Fearless way of thinking

I did hear on the news a few minutes ago that a group in Tennessee said they were going to do the same thing and Tenn Governor said he wouldnt stand for it


https://www.newschannel5.com/news/gov-lee-to-demonstrators-autonomous-zones-and-violence-will-not-be-tolerated (https://www.newschannel5.com/news/gov-lee-to-demonstrators-autonomous-zones-and-violence-will-not-be-tolerated)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2020, 03:03:20 PM
I view it as a local matter, not Federal.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 12, 2020, 03:09:19 PM
You guys do realize that if the mayor/governor look inept and POTUS sends in troops and clears the area, that helps POTUS' reelection chances, right?

POTUS' supporters are the ones saying "we need to put a stop to this" and if POTUS sends in the troops, that shows them that he's putting a stop to it. Maybe with a little tear gas and some roughing up, but for these protesters, I think most of POTUS' supporters view that as a bonus.

I don't see how the mayor/governor showing that they can't control the situation and needing Daddy to come in and clean it up hurts POTUS?
It is a no win for POTUS.   Period.   

I hope he just leaves it alone.  His supporters will get it and his detractors/ media will have less ammo. Besides- let them have their little CHAZ town.  They look like idiots.  No violence please.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 12, 2020, 03:16:51 PM
as long as it doesnt spread then youre probably right
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 12, 2020, 03:32:05 PM
as long as it doesnt spread then youre probably right
It will only spread in places where local elected officials allow it. If they want to capitulate to demands line free all drug offenders and violent criminals- they may, but it will be incredibly costly in so many ways. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2020, 04:03:38 PM
It is a no win for POTUS.  Period. 

I hope he just leaves it alone.  His supporters will get it and his detractors/ media will have less ammo. Besides- let them have their little CHAZ town.  They look like idiots.  No violence please. 
they look like idiots and if there is violence the local mayor and the governor look like idiots for allowing it.

they all deserve each other

I don't think it will spread.  Most other mayors and governors know better than to allow it.  If they allow it, it's on them. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 12, 2020, 04:45:00 PM
Fuck cancer.
YES^^^^^ a very good friends daughter has had problems with her immunity system and they were very careful with the covid virus.Now she has cancer of the lymph nodes and a few other things things tied in.They are getting a run around from with what's covered/when.As I understand it she'll have 24 treatments but has to wait until november for more PET scans I believe - she is 24 and by no means out of the woods
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 12, 2020, 04:52:27 PM
Sorry to hear, Nubbz. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2020, 04:58:21 PM
bad crap

much worse than a virus
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on June 12, 2020, 05:30:58 PM
The comedy ones, are tolerable.  The sports ones, need to lean into the simulations.
My reading numbers have doubled/tripled during this period.   Mix of novels, non-fiction industry and pre-1920 baseball.  The only regular news I intentionally digest is the WSJ, as it has never raised its voice at me in the 25 years I've been reading it, and I can actually read about events and news which aren't loaded with hyperbole and vitriol, including plenty of non-CV news.   Thoughtful op-eds, no doubt moderate to right POV, and contributing columnists across the spectrum.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 12, 2020, 07:10:10 PM
My reading numbers have doubled/tripled during this period.  Mix of novels, non-fiction industry and pre-1920 baseball.  
I'm reading a Terrible Beauty - it's about Ty Cobb.Dispels many of the fabricated myths surrounding him
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 12, 2020, 07:45:20 PM
I'm reading a Terrible Beauty - it's about Ty Cobb.Dispels many of the fabricated myths surrounding him
I read his autobiography My Life in Baseball

good read
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on June 12, 2020, 08:42:47 PM
I'm reading a Terrible Beauty - it's about Ty Cobb.Dispels many of the fabricated myths surrounding him
Excellent.   I touted that book in our reading  OT thread, wherever that thread is.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2020, 10:24:17 PM
according to news reports there is some extortion happening where small business owners are being forced to pay for protection

but it really doesnt matter whether folks are being hurt or not

these people have set themselves up as the unelected government guarding the area with guns

cant be allowed or it will spread
maybe it could spread to Texas.....................


DALLAS — Dallas officials have agreed to a 90-day ban on the use of tear gas and other less-lethal police crowd-control weapons against demonstrators.

U.S. District Judge Sam Lindsay approved late Thursday a consent decree in which Dallas police agree not to use against peaceful demonstrators smoke bombs, flashbangs, pepperballs, Mace or other chemical agents. They also agree to not fire such impact projectiles as rubber bullets, bean bags or sponges.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 12, 2020, 11:00:42 PM
maybe it could spread to Texas.....................


DALLAS — Dallas officials have agreed to a 90-day ban on the use of tear gas and other less-lethal police crowd-control weapons against demonstrators.

U.S. District Judge Sam Lindsay approved late Thursday a consent decree in which Dallas police agree not to use against peaceful demonstrators smoke bombs, flashbangs, pepperballs, Mace or other chemical agents. They also agree to not fire such impact projectiles as rubber bullets, bean bags or sponges.

Going with.....no.  Lol
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 12, 2020, 11:21:39 PM
I'm reading a Terrible Beauty - it's about Ty Cobb.Dispels many of the fabricated myths surrounding him
Ooo, like what?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 12, 2020, 11:22:18 PM
YES^^^^^ a very good friends daughter has had problems with her immunity system and they were very careful with the covid virus.Now she has cancer of the lymph nodes and a few other things things tied in.They are getting a run around from with what's covered/when.As I understand it she'll have 24 treatments but has to wait until november for more PET scans I believe - she is 24 and by no means out of the woods
Jesus. I'm so sorry. I lost a cousin to that a while back. Just awful stuff. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 12, 2020, 11:25:02 PM
maybe it could spread to Texas.....................


DALLAS — Dallas officials have agreed to a 90-day ban on the use of tear gas and other less-lethal police crowd-control weapons against demonstrators.

U.S. District Judge Sam Lindsay approved late Thursday a consent decree in which Dallas police agree not to use against peaceful demonstrators smoke bombs, flashbangs, pepperballs, Mace or other chemical agents. They also agree to not fire such impact projectiles as rubber bullets, bean bags or sponges.

why would the police need any of that stuff if it is a peaceful protest

just arrest anyone not being peaceful and theres no need for the other stuff
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 13, 2020, 12:00:52 AM
why would the police need any of that stuff if it is a peaceful protest

just arrest anyone not being peaceful and theres no need for the other stuff
It's like you've been asleep for the past 2 weeks...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 13, 2020, 01:08:06 AM
Problem 1: wife's best friend has breast cancer. Technically stage 3. Probably good prognosis. I broke "lockdown" a few weeks ago to shave her head because nobody else thought they could do it without bawling. I did it. I'm glad to do it rather than someone impersonal. But that's not something anyone should have to do. That one has dealt with too much negative BS in her life to deserve this. She spent 5 years taking care of her mom with early onset Alzheimer's. Her dad is a junkie. Her sister faces thyroid cancer last year. She's not 40 yet. It's crap.


Problem 2: wife's aunt was complaining about earaches. Turns out it's cancer spreading. She was supposed to have a 13 hour surgery today. They aborted it when they saw it's in her carotid and said "you have 6 months". Nothing they can do.

Just angry. Good people. They don't need this. But that's the world.
Hang in there, Bwarb.
It rains upon the just, and there's no getting around it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 13, 2020, 01:14:38 AM
The siege continues in Seattle


The occupiers have declared it a police free zone

Seattles mayor just laughs it off saying we may have a block party with the summer of love

she is bat shit crazy

Everyone thinks Trump cant send in federal troops but they are wrong and I fear this is where its going

What do you do when local authorities refuse to protect their citizens
It would be almost unprecedented for the president to send federal troops to a state or city over the governor's/mayor's objection.  IIRC, the only times since Reconstruction that that has happened was when Ike sent the 101st Airborne to Little Rock in 1957 and JFK sent troops to force Ole Miss to let USAF veteran James Meredith enroll in 1962.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 13, 2020, 01:20:05 AM
Ooo, like what?
I've read a review of the book.  I believe the myths dispelled are about Cobb's supposed racism and dirty play.  Somebody in the '30s or '40s with an axe to grind wrote a basically unsourced bio on him that wrongly became the "gold standard" for Cobb info.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 13, 2020, 01:38:05 AM
It would be almost unprecedented for the president to send federal troops to a state or city over the governor's/mayor's objection.  IIRC, the only times since Reconstruction that that has happened was when Ike sent the 101st Airborne to Little Rock in 1957 and JFK sent troops to force Ole Miss to let USAF veteran James Meredith enroll in 1962.
Ive  reconsidered and kinda go with others view

as long as they dont destroy property of hurt anyone I think the better move is to sit back and let the country see just what happens when you have an idiot for mayor and governor for that matter
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 13, 2020, 07:15:49 AM
It would be almost unprecedented for the president to send federal troops to a state or city over the governor's/mayor's objection.  IIRC, the only times since Reconstruction that that has happened was when Ike sent the 101st Airborne to Little Rock in 1957 and JFK sent troops to force Ole Miss to let USAF veteran James Meredith enroll in 1962.
nice
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2020, 08:02:36 AM
There were the soldier's protests in 1931 I think over pensions in DC broken up by MacArthur and Federal troops.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 13, 2020, 08:56:06 AM
I guess those ladies didn't think she was genuine in her support of their cause
It's called a lack of trust. We need to build trust - both ways.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 13, 2020, 08:58:31 AM
They're called gnats in FL.

Just wait for lovebug season - your car has no idea what's coming.
No, they are called no-see-um. Gnats don't bite. No-see-um's bite, and you don't feel (or see) the bite until the next day.

I went through love bug season, and yes, my car was a disaster.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 13, 2020, 09:11:15 AM
the gnats in Iowa bite

lack of trust because of skin color is racism
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 13, 2020, 09:13:35 AM
I'm off to a golf tournament fundraiser for the small town volunteer ambulance/ fire dept.

Scramble event with much drinking

FORE!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 13, 2020, 09:18:20 AM


lack of trust because of skin color is racism
I disagree, but that's OK.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 13, 2020, 09:19:24 AM
Back in Illinois now. The weather is different. Had to put pants on last night and this morning, for the first time in 7 weeks.

Headed up to Kenosha soon, to prep the boat for living on this summer.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 13, 2020, 09:44:02 AM
Statement by Tennessee's Governor, in response to rumors about a planned takeover in Nash Vegas. You Go, Mr. Guv:



"We encourage Tennesseans to exercise their First Amendment rights and have seen many examples of peaceful protests across our state in recent weeks,” Lee said in a statement (https://www.tn.gov/governor/news/2020/6/12/statement-from-gov--lee-on-protests.html) Friday. “As demonstrations continue, we will continue to protect Tennesseans' right to peaceful assembly, while also reassuring citizens that lawlessness, autonomous zones, and violence will not be tolerated.


“Further, Tennessee law expressly prohibits camping on state property not expressly designated as a campground area, and that law will be enforced,” Lee added.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 13, 2020, 09:49:09 AM
19 percent of Wisconsin's positive tests are black people, which comprise 6 percent of Wisconsin's population. 

The Xi Virus is racist!! 

What will the Wuhon Health Organization say about this?!?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 13, 2020, 10:22:11 AM
There were the soldier's protests in 1931 I think over pensions in DC broken up by MacArthur and Federal troops.
The so-called "Bonus Expeditionary Force."  They wanted their bonuses from WWI, payable IIRC in 1942, to be paid immediately.  Pres. Hoover told Chief of Staff MacArthur to evict them without using violence.  MacArthur told Patton to evict them and didn't mention the part about no violence.
It was in D.C., which did not have home rule at the time, so it all took place on federal property.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 13, 2020, 10:53:07 AM
Maybe the US can disappear this guy.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/chinese-military-officer-arrested-us-medical-research (https://www.foxnews.com/us/chinese-military-officer-arrested-us-medical-research)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 13, 2020, 12:27:49 PM
Excellent.  I touted that book in our reading  OT thread, wherever that thread is.
When Cobb 1st came up to  Detroit there was this guy named Schmidt who was a catcher I believe.He took a dislike to Cobb and at least 4X beat him up pretty good - twice while the game was going on.Turns out the manager think it was Bill Armour out of jealousy probably egged the beatings on.And at least 1 writer was old friends with the Armour started hanging this on Cobb who was a 19 yr old rookie.He started getting a bad rep.Detroit at the time was really bad and Cobb stood out not only in talent but intensity and his drive to continue improving.It was amazing many of these players then were border line outlaws/madmen as the pay wasn't that great.In the middle of a season a guy would disappear 1-2-3 weeks and go on a bender
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on June 14, 2020, 06:33:20 PM
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/104031746_258960345358852_7722183200289901525_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=4BCKqZCSLqYAX_Jt65a&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=244c5306ffd7b0e0aa4a456f5954933b&oe=5F0CA1C4)
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/82266918_917174538758435_3332010356665389604_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=DKuE-OMtE_IAX9QdN0Q&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=9f04585f7cf1ca1ce824763b7a916a06&oe=5F0C1337)
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/104268050_2415922265366468_6065505960704620971_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=2HtLMZVNOZYAX86CG98&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=4db388dceadc3194ec5fba108586e979&oe=5F0B91C9)

this is the latest one... board is Sapele (if anyone has been watching these they'll know I've a liking of Sapele) and Black Walnut.. the 'keys' are rock maple.. this is for a friend who's wife approached me to make it for him for father's day... fairly safe to say he won't come across it here prior... Of all the boards i've made especially lately, this is the one i like the most... the grains just POP on this thing in a subtle way, and compliment each other in a classy sort of way- without being all formal with sharp edges and cuts many folks request... 

I did this one last weekend for a lady to give to her son- her husband/his father passed last October- he was a great guy and it was terribly sad... he was a partner at the firm my wife works and now his son is literally in the office his father left behind... he was an ECU grad, obviously... notice the 'juice sluice' and because he does a lot of smoking pigs: 

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/103304414_10158935401098755_5849135598033411903_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=qAOxciU75WUAX-Te2Mt&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=6ca72639ef93b17ca486ac99f1dd1667&oe=5F0E0FEC)

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/102832573_10158935401563755_8991464820119917018_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=a5gt0KSuDHIAX-btm5n&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=567ab7931e56830166ede485d5cd2bc2&oe=5F0C2E3C)

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/103028589_10158935402023755_319368372606929389_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=XH4pP88WDfoAX9kkAY9&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=cdfb448b8a52457e6a4ef49c9ce9676a&oe=5F0D1001)

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/102954512_10158935400498755_5787367605399224129_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=0h9MgvLhm0UAX8qTYCS&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=6e51f7530d476b927ee96aa3cff14854&oe=5F0A921D)

and then there is this one- a gift for a lady's 70th birthday from her son... I shit you not the guy talks of his mother often and refers to her as "Precious Perfect Momma Lane" every time... I've heard others call her "Precious Perfect"... I've NO clue how a person gets a nick-name like that..... I mean, she's a nice lady and all... but anyway:

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/102953790_10158935399848755_8123938439597685575_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=W3gmJmBxhbwAX99UeGk&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=6f1c235e7452f36a139ac853b7a4536e&oe=5F0C60E8)

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/102887816_10158935400103755_3359346827125527165_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=SzjSnlbkGwAAX8RAx7X&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=992ea3cdec78928af154135b8e3ee2a5&oe=5F0B1347)

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/103385296_10158935400238755_7227384713237866815_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=c0RTTP6YeMQAX8QI1Pe&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=073281832cbf154c20eecb116bb6c1ba&oe=5F0CF84A)

I have one order outstanding, and another order 'in' but not due until next June (for a couples wedding- and their momma said "lets wait until we're pretty sure it's going to happen" which cracked me up!!!

these things are really easy, and they're fun- mostly because folks don't make precise orders- they say "they're into (this or that) and (this or that) and maybe their name or initials?" which gives me opportunity to be creative... whodathunk i had a creative side? huh... 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 15, 2020, 08:38:42 AM
Nice work, drew!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2020, 08:44:07 AM
I want something, but I'm not sure what, maybe for my kids (OSU grads).  I can't see using any of those as actual real cutting boards.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 15, 2020, 09:10:19 AM
Very cool. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2020, 09:17:28 AM
Do you make "desk sized items", perhaps something 3" x 3" or so that stands on its own, not a cutting board?  Maybe 4x4?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on June 15, 2020, 09:47:13 AM
Oh yeah, they're used as real cutting boards.... that the reason they're so thick.. they stay in place and when they get scarred, they can be sanded and refinished in minutes.

The inlays, such as the "70" above are at least 1/4" thick, as are the resin pours... thy too can be refinished.

I tell folks "never submerge them for more than a few minutes and use the non decorated side for cutting, the decorated side for presentation- you CAN cut in the decorated side of you must, though" .... and I rec a board oil every six months or so (as needed).

I make book ends and little clocks, too.  I'll hang up a pic of a memorial clock im working on sometime today. 

And.... thanks, fellers... 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2020, 10:01:53 AM
There is (or was) a furniture maker in Madison, Indiana on the river (making for a nice drive) that did gorgeous inlaid tables and desks.  I wanted all of them but we had nowhere to put anything.  They used their scrap to make cutting boards, and they were gorgeous as well.

They don't seem to be there any more, bummer.  Nice town to visit.

We visited a maker of inlaid items in Sorrento and bought two smaller items.  This is the more classic glossy inlaid stuff.  I'll look them up.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2020, 10:08:29 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/zpM7XRU.png)

They had large desks and dining room tables there, tens of thousands of euros of course.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on June 15, 2020, 03:14:17 PM
Wow.. that is some amazing work there, cincy...

I used to know a guy into fine watches... like, $10k+ watches... he sold them for a living... his business was "watch doctor" in Greenville nc... he may still be there.... he had a talent with precision and fabricating parts no longer available... amazing work.

He was friends with a cabinet maker and not your average cabinet maker.  Before interwebs was a thing he had a company come in and set up cameras all over his shop... he just went about business as usual... the company would narrate what he was doing after chopping the film... he was paid handsomely for that... he was amazingly good at his craft... i watched progress on a chest that was several hundred years old and severely damaged.  He lifted the coat of arms off of it literally peeling layer by layer and did it diagonal to the grain.  He then recreated the parts missing, refinished, and presented it... ypu wouldn't have recognized it but it was still, mostly, a chest from the 17th century....

That guy came to my cigar shop one day at the behest of the watch doctor, and to look at some Eli Bleau humidors I had... desktop size... price range $2k to $5k... he carefully picked one up, looked it over, opened it... then tossed it back on the counter saying "trash"..... i was aghast... then, after getting his ideas, he made some of his own..... and comparing the ones I had with the ones he brought? Yeah, the ones I had were trash.... the only metal in them was decorative... instead of hinging as normal ones do they kinda sweeped open on a roller pin (of wood) near the bottom of the box.. it was an amazing thing to see.... he was a true master.  I've no idea where he is now or if hes even still alive- he was old then, so, I kinda doubt it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2020, 03:51:13 PM
The shop in Sorrento was like a museum really.  Most of the stuff was exorbitantly expensive, but they had some smaller items in the hundreds of dollars.

The main thing we bought was a lazy susan.  (We didn't buy those tables shown above.)

Apparently Sorrento is known for this sort of artistry.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 15, 2020, 04:16:39 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/zpM7XRU.png)

They had large desks and dining room tables there, tens of thousands of euros of course. 
I never understood these.  What do you use them for?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 15, 2020, 04:28:19 PM
In essence, the story is "this is what the police say happened."

It's also missing the context of why our off-duty cop is walking to his car at 3:20 in the morning. It's probably very mundane, but leaves a gap for one to wonder.
Here you go.


https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2020/6/13/21290395/off-duty-chicago-police-shooting-brighton-park

 (https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2020/6/13/21290395/off-duty-chicago-police-shooting-brighton-park)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 15, 2020, 04:37:27 PM
I never understood these.  What do you use them for?
tea parties?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 15, 2020, 04:44:33 PM
They're called "nesting tables" so I assume you use them in birdhouses.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 15, 2020, 05:11:03 PM
Decorative furniture hurts my brain.  Use it or ditch it.  I'm far too utilitarian for this world.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 15, 2020, 05:38:15 PM
no wonder you're not married

I'm a bit that way
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 15, 2020, 06:10:47 PM
I never understood these.  What do you use them for?
To rest Drew's cutting boards on
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on June 15, 2020, 07:06:22 PM
here is a 'Memorial Clock' i literally just finished... this one is for the family of a man I served with...

I'm going to gather up some notes from some of the guys first, written as if written to the fallen fella, and then send it off.  I've a list I'm trying to complete of these... sounds morbid to those who didn't serve, likely, but it's been my observation families really appreciate it especially after a few years and the after the initial noise dies down.

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/104089573_10158960141558755_6190246789944885507_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=WfxlEHmpTnMAX9XKZzl&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=47b46b00b5b2100e22108e5cc265c0b3&oe=5F0BEDFC)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 15, 2020, 07:11:10 PM
I'm not a huge fan of nesting tables, but they do have some utility.

They're basically like side tables or reading tables or coffee tables, and they're used primarily in living rooms now, but originally they were used in sitting rooms/parlors/drawing rooms.  When the room's not in use they remain stacked and out of the way.  If you only have one or two guests, you can keep them stacked and they're still useful.  If you have a lot of guests, then you can pull them apart, space them out, configure them however you like to suit the immediate need, and then re-stack them.

Their design intent is most definitely utilitarian.  Their function is often somewhat less so.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 15, 2020, 07:33:05 PM
I never understood these.  What do you use them for?
You know, as they say...

"If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand."

(For the record, I don't understand either.)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 15, 2020, 07:59:46 PM
I guess that's why I always see them in antique furniture stores and never in anyone's homes.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 15, 2020, 10:04:57 PM
As i said, I'm not a big fan, but they're actually still pretty popular.  They're not all Victorian antiquities of course, there are some modern versions that sell pretty well:

(https://images.crateandbarrel.com/is/image/Crate/KnurlNestingCoffeeSmAndLgS2SHS19_16x9/?$web_zoom_furn_hero$&190411135145&wid=1008&hei=567)

(https://secure.img1-fg.wfcdn.com/im/21450770/resize-h800%5Ecompr-r85/8846/88466360/Beckman+3+Piece+Nesting+Tables.jpg)

(https://www.westelm.com/weimgs/rk/images/wcm/products/202014/0708/img64o.jpg)

(https://www.potterybarn.com/pbimgs/ab/images/dp/wcm/202009/2126/img50o.jpg)

(https://www.ikea.com/us/en/images/products/granboda-nest-of-tables-set-of-3__0836333_PE672714_S5.JPG?f=l)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2020, 07:34:44 AM
They're called "nesting tables" so I assume you use them in birdhouses.
Heh.  We actually have zero now.  I recall having a set in the past, vaguely.  We have one table that is kind of like that but it's meant to hang over the sofa to provide a convenient place to put my beer.  They can be useful on a patio/deck at times.

That set in Sorrento would probably cost $4,000, I'm guessing.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 16, 2020, 08:47:45 AM
Is there gonna be a "Columbus Day" this year?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2020, 08:51:20 AM
Where I worked dropped it about 30 years ago in favor of MLK Bday in February.

Whatever.  You can celebrate anything you want.  I'll celebrate the opening of CFB this year on whatever day, if it happens.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 16, 2020, 08:51:43 AM
Is there gonna be a "Columbus Day" this year?
My kids get not one but TWO days off for Columbus Day every year.  

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 16, 2020, 08:53:45 AM
I think it needs to end, but I've thought that for years.

It's a sham "holiday" for government employees and kids.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2020, 08:56:19 AM
The wife reminded me that Father's Day is coming up.  I never have a clue.

This morning it was 58°F here when I got up at dawn.  We have not had a 90°F high yet, which is unusual, but they predict one Sunday, barely.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 16, 2020, 09:23:29 AM
we've been in the mid to upper 90s for more than 2 weeks

July/August weather in mid-June

the crops need rain, possibility Thursday
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 16, 2020, 09:59:40 AM
I think it needs to end, but I've thought that for years.

It's a sham "holiday" for government employees and kids.
If they do they will just replace it with another sham holiday
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2020, 10:03:42 AM
We should have a holiday called "Sham Holiday" literally, to cover them all on one day, maybe Feb. 29.  Or 30.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 16, 2020, 10:16:53 AM
If they do they will just replace it with another sham holiday
I miss Pulaski Day.

Nobody outside Chicago seems to know that it exists. I used to get school off for that one. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 16, 2020, 10:20:45 AM
I miss Pulaski Day.

Nobody outside Chicago seems to know that it exists. I used to get school off for that one.
The schools no longer close for it. That stopped about 10 years ago or so. 

Crook County, Chiraq and other government offices still close.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 16, 2020, 10:47:27 AM
Our "Columbus Day" holiday is actually staff development, so the students get it off but teachers and administrators do not.  It typically falls on the same weekend as TX-OU so it's easy for us to get up to Dallas for the weekend and spend some extra time there.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 16, 2020, 10:56:10 AM
Market started out really strong, but it looks like the profit-takers and computers are out playing and manipulating again.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 16, 2020, 10:56:17 AM
Our "Columbus Day" holiday is actually staff development, so the students get it off but teachers and administrators do not.  It typically falls on the same weekend as TX-OU so it's easy for us to get up to Dallas for the weekend and spend some extra time there.
I've got a question for teachers like @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) and @CWSooner (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1544) ...

What really happens on those "staff development days"? I just have this vision in my head that it's a bunch of teachers sitting around drinking margaritas and bitching about their lazy entitled students and their overly meddlesome and unreasonable parents... 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 16, 2020, 11:13:21 AM
I've got a question for teachers like @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) and @CWSooner (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1544) ...

What really happens on those "staff development days"? I just have this vision in my head that it's a bunch of teachers sitting around drinking margaritas and bitching about their lazy entitled students and their overly meddlesome and unreasonable parents...
there is a pizza slush fund from fundraising drives
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on June 16, 2020, 11:20:27 AM
I've got a question for teachers like @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) and @CWSooner (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1544) ...

What really happens on those "staff development days"? I just have this vision in my head that it's a bunch of teachers sitting around drinking margaritas and bitching about their lazy entitled students and their overly meddlesome and unreasonable parents...
My wife hates them.  It's generally a series of state mandated presentations given by people who haven't been in a classroom in decades, and are paid 110k to travel the state and lecture them about whatever the latest craze is in teaching.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: rolltidefan on June 16, 2020, 11:40:00 AM
My wife hates them.  It's generally a series of state mandated presentations given by people who haven't been in a classroom in decades, and are paid 110k to travel the state and lecture them about whatever the latest craze is in teaching.
sounds like accounting cpe.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 16, 2020, 11:42:19 AM
We should have a holiday called "Sham Holiday" literally, to cover them all on one day, maybe Feb. 29.  Or 30.
right and we could also celebrate Festivus 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: rolltidefan on June 16, 2020, 11:45:46 AM
right and we could also celebrate Festivus
you don't already? add that to the list of problems i have with you people.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 16, 2020, 12:16:01 PM
I think it needs to end, but I've thought that for years.

It's a sham "holiday" for government employees and kids.
In most of Latin America, it's called "Day of the Race."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 16, 2020, 12:18:06 PM
In most of Latin America, it's called "Day of the Race."
Hell thats every day here
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 16, 2020, 12:20:09 PM
you don't already? add that to the list of problems i have with you people.
You people?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 16, 2020, 12:31:03 PM
You people?
Im offended
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 16, 2020, 12:33:37 PM
I've got a question for teachers like @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) and @CWSooner (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1544) ...

What really happens on those "staff development days"? I just have this vision in my head that it's a bunch of teachers sitting around drinking margaritas and bitching about their lazy entitled students and their overly meddlesome and unreasonable parents...
We usually attend a semi-interesting presentation by a guest speaker while most of the teachers are surfing their smartphones.
Unsupervised teachers are no better than unsupervised students.  Sometimes worse.
We sometimes actually work on making connections across the curriculum, or on vertical or horizontal alignment.
The coaches are often absent.  They have "coach stuff" to do.  Supposedly.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2020, 01:52:04 PM
My kids once told me about a "Diversity Day" at Ohio State.  They thought it was amusing.  They graduated from a HS that is 57% black, and 25% white, give or take, and were at OSU which is more like 85% white.

My kids have a sense of humor a bit like mine, but they groan at Dad Jokes.

I hope they can come visit soon.  The one in C-bus would drive down.  The one south of Austin would prefer to fly.  My step kids are in SF or France.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2020, 02:17:20 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrOY3yKUH4k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrOY3yKUH4k)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 16, 2020, 02:41:05 PM
I've got a question for teachers like @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) and @CWSooner (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1544) ...

What really happens on those "staff development days"? I just have this vision in my head that it's a bunch of teachers sitting around drinking margaritas and bitching about their lazy entitled students and their overly meddlesome and unreasonable parents...
We all sit in the library listening to the admin and coaches take turns presenting things we mostly already know.  What those days are NOT is time to be productive doing teachery things.  

There's lots of filler, too.  Always an "ice-breaker" to begin, in a room full of people who know each other all too well.  A long lunch.  A breakout session/book report on common-sense ideas from an article - they'll give us 45 min to read it and ready a presentation, which could all be done in 10 min.

It's boring generally educational-based, obvious stuff.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 16, 2020, 02:46:25 PM
Wow... Sounds like it's tedious AND useless... What a combo ;-) 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 16, 2020, 03:04:06 PM
It's awful.  
All of us just want time in our classrooms to do the 20 things we've been meaning to do if we just had more time.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 16, 2020, 03:15:53 PM
Like if you weren't on the internet
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 16, 2020, 03:18:58 PM
like you???
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 16, 2020, 03:19:39 PM
In the fatal shooting of a black man by police in Atlanta last week, officers’ body cameras captured about 40 minutes of footage, but not the critical moments that end with one of them opening fire.

In Oklahoma City, it took police more than a year to release video from the arrest of a man who died in custody. It came out months after the officers involved were cleared of any wrongdoing, and shows them struggling with the man as he says “I can’t breathe.” One officer replies: “I don’t care.”


https://apnews.com/99a772c44f58cde36dc33c91c4ee72de (https://apnews.com/99a772c44f58cde36dc33c91c4ee72de)

Nationwide, police departments have rushed to ramp up the use of body cameras, which have been hailed as a potential equalizer that would show the unvarnished truth of an encounter with officers.

But the cases in Georgia and Oklahoma highlight why the technology’s benefit has come into question amid protests sparked by the killing of George Floyd and calls for sweeping changes to American law enforcement. With budget crises looming and cries to “defund the police,” some are asking whether the tens of millions of taxpayer dollars spent to outfit officers with cameras has provided the accountability and transparency expected.

Advocates and officers agree the technology’s broad adoption has been helpful, but its value is dictated by the policies and practices around its use: Cameras improve transparency when departments care about transparency.

“They were going to be a panacea to all of the problems we’re facing,” said Chuck Wexler, executive director of the Police Executive Research Forum. “Body-worn cameras have their limitations and they’re certainly not a panacea, but they do have valuable uses.”

This month, four Atlanta police officers were fired and criminally charged over an incident in which officers pulled two college students from a car and hit them with stun guns during protests late last month. The police chief, who resigned Saturday, told her staff she expected the footage to reinforce that the officers did the right thing, but it did the opposite.

But that case was unusual. Cameras have largely failed to deliver swift accountability because the release of video is frequently long delayed or denied entirely, said Harlan Yu, executive director at the civil rights and technology nonprofit Upturn. When footage of a controversial incident is released, Yu said, it’s often only after intense public outcry.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 16, 2020, 03:23:35 PM
The then Chicago Mayor sat on the Laquan McDonald video for about a year, and only released them after he won re-election. That's not a good look.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 16, 2020, 03:25:42 PM
I've got words, but they're not fit for typing

dirty Inglourious Basterds comes to mind
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2020, 03:30:04 PM
It kinda sounds like stuff I sat through at work, really.  I suspect all human enterprises resemble each other remarkably.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 16, 2020, 03:31:03 PM
POTUS signed an executive order today that directs the DOJ to offer funds to state and local departments that seek accreditation from independent certifying bodies regarding their practices, their use-of-force policies and de-escalation techniques, and their training of officers in those policies. It also appears to tie federal grant funding to them providing information for a federal database on officers receiving complaints of excessive force use.

I can't tell from the language in the order whether this means that "if you currently receive federal grants, you get nothing unless you do X and Y", or if it means that "the DOJ will give you MORE grants than you currently receive if you do X and Y". Obviously the former has a lot more teeth. 

But... At least it's something. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 16, 2020, 03:37:00 PM
like you???
Pretty sure I'm not complaining about time constaints,try to keep up
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 16, 2020, 03:42:49 PM
Pretty sure I'm not complaining about time constaints,try to keep up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oSRvcdlgSI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oSRvcdlgSI)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2020, 03:54:46 PM
My hands smell of garlic and basil.  I'm making spaghetti sauce.

Now my keyboard also smells.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 16, 2020, 04:02:12 PM
My hands smell of garlic and basil.  I'm making spaghetti sauce.

Now my keyboard also smells.
far out dude
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 16, 2020, 04:13:57 PM
Pretty sure I'm not complaining about time constaints,try to keep up
and that's not the ONLY difference between you and the school teacher!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 16, 2020, 04:44:52 PM
Or a UNL Fan
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 16, 2020, 04:50:07 PM
scarlet is scarlet
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 16, 2020, 05:01:00 PM
Wha.....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 16, 2020, 11:49:44 PM
Pretty sure I'm not complaining about time constaints,try to keep up
Questioning the work hours of a teacher is adorable.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 17, 2020, 07:49:27 AM
Excuse me that is called sarcasm.That was about your statement,god forbid you've never sharpened the snark.So excuse if I don't hit my knees in front of you my eminence
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 17, 2020, 08:40:53 AM


I basically agree. I’m sure there are a lot of coaches who have political beliefs that differ from those of the majority of their players.  They  certainly have the right to express those beliefs but risk losing the locker room.
I'm sure there are coaches who believe in left movements, and I'm sure if a coach wore a t-shirt representing this, it would be just fine and not even a story. Because that's how it is.

OAN is not a white nationalist or KKK website. Jeez. Just because they favor the current president? 



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 17, 2020, 09:13:45 AM
Time for it to become a collegiate game again and have the NFL start a minor league
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 17, 2020, 09:30:15 AM
I fear this is going to become a regular occurrence.

*****************************************

A 22-year-old man is facing four counts of attempted murder after police say he shot at officers, hitting one in the knee.

Steven McGee, of Bronzeville, was arrested just before 9 p.m. Monday in the 5000 block of South King Drive in the Bronzeville neighborhood after he fired multiple rounds at uniformed officers, Chicago police said.

About 6:30 p.m., officers tried to stop McGee, who was wanted for aggravated assault with a handgun on June 10 (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-cpd-officer-shot-061520-20200616-m6ud3hh76rbslkqfaouk44a4xy-story.html), police said.

As officers approached, he took out a gun and fired shots at them, hitting one in the right knee, police said. The officer was taken to the University of Chicago Medical Center in good condition.
The officers did not fire shots during the incident, police said.


McGee is also facing felony charges of unlawful use of a weapon by a felon and aggravated discharge of a firearm, police said.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on June 17, 2020, 09:31:10 AM
I'm sure there are coaches who believe in left movements, and I'm sure if a coach wore a t-shirt representing this, it would be just fine and not even a story. Because that's how it is.

OAN is not a white nationalist or KKK website. Jeez. Just because they favor the current president?




Believe me, I’m with ya.  Gundy had nothing to apologize for. Zero.  But in the end he had to apologize to get the locker room back.  There is no room for rational debate.

The only thing I fault him for is not recognizing that. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 17, 2020, 09:52:20 AM

OAN is not a white nationalist or KKK website. Jeez. Just because they favor the current president?


I guess there's nothing between these 2 possibilities.  Funny, the groups you mention by name.

Every OAN viewer isn't a white nationalist or in the KKK, but when members of those groups decide FoxNews is too liberal, where do they go for their "news"?  

If Gundy was wearing a FoxNews t-shirt, it'd be fine.  Not good, but fine.  But OAN is over a cliff, and he should know that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 17, 2020, 10:36:19 AM
OAN criticized BLM  and that makes them far right

Ive not watched QAN but Im going to to see what the problem is

if they are a far right aka KKK etc then I agree but Im going to see for myself
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: rolltidefan on June 17, 2020, 11:29:22 AM
https://sports.theonion.com/entire-oklahoma-state-team-to-boycott-season-after-mike-1844057017
Entire Oklahoma State Team To Boycott Season After Mike Gundy Seen In NCAA Shirt

lol
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 17, 2020, 11:32:54 AM
https://sports.theonion.com/entire-oklahoma-state-team-to-boycott-season-after-mike-1844057017
Entire Oklahoma State Team To Boycott Season After Mike Gundy Seen In NCAA Shirt

lol
had me going for a minute Mr Onion
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 17, 2020, 11:43:31 AM
OAN criticized BLM  and that makes them far right

Ive not watched QAN but Im going to to see what the problem is

if they are a far right aka KKK etc then I agree but Im going to see for myself
you check it for me
I don't have the time
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 17, 2020, 11:44:49 AM
I fear this is going to become a regular occurrence.

*****************************************

A 22-year-old man is facing four counts of attempted murder after police say he shot at officers, hitting one in the knee.

I thought this IS a regular occurrence in Chicago?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 17, 2020, 12:12:28 PM
you check it for me
I don't have the time
This summarizes the average American.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2020, 12:15:03 PM
There are some sites I won't check because of the history it can leave on my sheet, so to speak.  That would be one example.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 17, 2020, 12:23:52 PM
I thought this IS a regular occurrence in Chicago?
yep and the officers didnt fire a single shot even after being shot at

Im not sure this is the change we need
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 17, 2020, 12:42:03 PM
yep and the officers didnt fire a single shot even after being shot at

Im not sure this is the change we need
I agree, once someone opens fire on cops, they should turn the guy into swiss cheese.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 17, 2020, 01:13:07 PM
There are some sites I won't check because of the history it can leave on my sheet, so to speak.  That would be one example.
better stay away from those porn sites
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 17, 2020, 01:14:27 PM
This summarizes the average American.
why didnt you know Im way above average and not just in bullshit
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 17, 2020, 01:26:02 PM
why didnt you know Im way above average and not just in bullshit
This is also typical of the average American.  We're like 34th in math, but 1st in confidence in math.  It's brutal.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 17, 2020, 01:28:32 PM
This summarizes the average American.
I don't even have time for CNN or Fox News
hopefully, the average American is smart enough to know both are garbage
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 17, 2020, 01:29:36 PM
I don't even have time for CNN or Fox News
hopefully, the average American is smart enough to know both are garbage
Yeah, no.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 17, 2020, 01:45:08 PM
I don't even have time for CNN or Fox News
hopefully, the average American is smart enough to know both are garbage
but you have time for golf dont you smarty pants

one lives life by establishing priorities 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2020, 01:56:08 PM
I don't even have time for CNN or Fox News
hopefully, the average American is smart enough to know both are garbage
The main thing I see if folks seeking "news" that makes them feel better, even if it's horrible for someone else.  Confirmation bias.

I think most of the "real news" is confusing, complicated, and too much work.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 17, 2020, 02:01:23 PM
but you have time for golf dont you smarty pants

one lives life by establishing priorities
I don't have to wade through bullshit at the golf course
wading through bullshit is not a priority for me
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 17, 2020, 02:26:58 PM
The main thing I see if folks seeking "news" that makes them feel better, even if it's horrible for someone else.  Confirmation bias.

I think most of the "real news" is confusing, complicated, and too much work.
I haven't watched a local nightly newscast in months.When they couldn't even remotely forecast the weather accurately for a day it's time to pack it in.Even 60 minutes sold out when the big boys they use to rat out bought them up - now it's entertainment tonite
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2020, 02:28:26 PM
I find it pointless to watch news on TV when I can read whatever I want on line quickly and without commercials.  The wife watches and sometimes I'm around.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 17, 2020, 02:44:19 PM
I find it pointless to watch news on TV when I can read whatever I want on line quickly and without commercials.  The wife watches and sometimes I'm around.
What annoys me is the constant opening of articles online, where they pop up video telling me the exact same thing that I can read in the article. 

If I wanted to watch TV, I'd watch TV. Let me read my internet in peace. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2020, 02:47:07 PM
Yeah, I nearly always pause the stupid video part.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on June 17, 2020, 03:45:51 PM
people who pan Fox/CNN et al grossly overestimate the # of viewers they reach.   they are useful bogeymen to be sure.   the same should be said for John Oliver, previously Stewart, Maher, etc. etc.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 17, 2020, 03:49:55 PM
people who pan Fox/CNN et al grossly overestimate the # of viewers they reach.  they are useful bogeymen to be sure.  the same should be said for John Oliver, previously Stewart, Maher, etc. etc. 

Yeah I know quite a few people that get their "news" from Oliver, Stewart, etc.  It's pretty frightening.  

I mean, I like watching those guys do their comedy bits, I find them pretty amusing for the most part.  But it's really no different than saying you get your "news" from Saturday Night Live's Weekend Update.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 17, 2020, 03:54:02 PM
I'm Chevy Chase and you're not
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 17, 2020, 04:33:31 PM
Is there a class of TV commercials that is more pointless and devoid of any relationship to the product they're selling than cologne/perfume commercials?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2020, 05:19:24 PM
Is there a class of TV commercials that is more pointless and devoid of any relationship to the product they're selling than cologne/perfume commercials?
Just about any commercial is unappealing to me in terms of making me think about buying the product.  I "learned" when I was at work that the real theme is to put the name of the brand in your head over and over and over and consumers will subliminally associate that brand with quality.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 17, 2020, 05:32:36 PM
Just about any commercial is unappealing to me in terms of making me think about buying the product.  I "learned" when I was at work that the real theme is to put the name of the brand in your head over and over and over and consumers will subliminally associate that brand with quality.
Yeah, I know. A commercial doesn't need to be good, it just needs to be memorable. But "memorable" doesn't mean the commercial is memorable, it means that it drills the name into your head. 

That's the problem with many funny commercials--you remember the funny commercial but don't remember what it was for. 

Cologne/perfume commercials are just weirdness followed by flashing the name of the product up on the screen. I don't know if they really lead to remembering all that well what product they're for.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 17, 2020, 05:40:16 PM
There's a lot like that, where the wife and I will be watching and then ask each other "WTF was that for?".
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2020, 05:50:23 PM
My least favorite in general are the pharm commercials.  I bet they get people thinking they are sick with goblinaritis or something.

I'd rather be preached at about feminine hygiene products.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2020, 05:51:42 PM
A lot of car commercials these days are a bit like perfume commercials.  They show two lovely people having some great time ssooshing around in some car at night.  No word about horsepower or transmission or handling or the kind of rear axel configuration it has.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 17, 2020, 06:01:43 PM
A lot of car commercials these days are a bit like perfume commercials.  They show two lovely people having some great time ssooshing around in some car at night.  No word about horsepower or transmission or handling or the kind of rear axel configuration it has.
Yeah, but at least they show people enjoying the product. And showing the product itself is a primary part of the commercial. Normal people don't care about the technical specifications of a car, they care about if a car will make them happy and look cool. (Most on this forum are not normal people.)

Perfume commercials show pretty people doing things that have nothing to do with perfume.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2020, 06:04:28 PM
They should be forced to reveal rear axel design, front brake disc diameter, type of pads being used, kind of tires standard on the vehicle, and what color is available.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2020, 06:07:31 PM
https://247sports.com/college/georgia/LongFormArticle/Georgia-Bulldogs-Football-NFL-salary-Matthew-Stafford-AJ-Green-148229919/?fbclid=IwAR0qhKkr-4Mdf_YWcageWOmgwvd73Ygl2OguQD9-B9cA-VlLhdpE7OG6rs8 (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/LongFormArticle/Georgia-Bulldogs-Football-NFL-salary-Matthew-Stafford-AJ-Green-148229919/?fbclid=IwAR0qhKkr-4Mdf_YWcageWOmgwvd73Ygl2OguQD9-B9cA-VlLhdpE7OG6rs8)

Interesting stat, but how in the world can Cal be Number Two?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 17, 2020, 06:23:59 PM
Yeah, but at least they show people enjoying the product. And showing the product itself is a primary part of the commercial. Normal people don't care about the technical specifications of a car, they care about if a car will make them happy and look cool. (Most on this forum are not normal people.)

Perfume commercials show pretty people doing things that have nothing to do with perfume.
One of my favorite car commercials of all time consists of pretty much nothing but lovely people swooshing around having a good time in a car, at night.  :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-kqUkZnDcM

 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-kqUkZnDcM)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 17, 2020, 06:26:33 PM
https://247sports.com/college/georgia/LongFormArticle/Georgia-Bulldogs-Football-NFL-salary-Matthew-Stafford-AJ-Green-148229919/?fbclid=IwAR0qhKkr-4Mdf_YWcageWOmgwvd73Ygl2OguQD9-B9cA-VlLhdpE7OG6rs8 (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/LongFormArticle/Georgia-Bulldogs-Football-NFL-salary-Matthew-Stafford-AJ-Green-148229919/?fbclid=IwAR0qhKkr-4Mdf_YWcageWOmgwvd73Ygl2OguQD9-B9cA-VlLhdpE7OG6rs8)

Interesting stat, but how in the world can Cal be Number Two?
http://www.espn.com/nfl/college/_/letter/c (http://www.espn.com/nfl/college/_/letter/c)

Well, Aaron Rodgers has been in the league a while, and they've got Jared Goff now too. QB is the high-paid position. 

At WR they have Keenan Allen, Desean Jackson, and Marvin Jones Jr, who all have been around a while as well. WR has become a very high-paid position.

Those, along with maybe Cameron Jordan (don't know how long he's been in the league, but pass-rushers make coin), probably add up. 

A lot of schools probably have more OL in the league than Cal, but outside of left tackles, OL don't make all that much.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 17, 2020, 06:52:10 PM
Yeah, but at least they show people enjoying the product. And showing the product itself is a primary part of the commercial. Normal people don't care about the technical specifications of a car, they care about if a car will make them happy and look cool. (Most on this forum are not normal people.)

Perfume commercials show pretty people doing things that have nothing to do with perfume.
We are not normal, in any sense of the word.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 17, 2020, 09:30:35 PM
https://youtu.be/yH97lImrr0Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH97lImrr0Q#action=share)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 17, 2020, 10:01:50 PM
https://247sports.com/college/georgia/LongFormArticle/Georgia-Bulldogs-Football-NFL-salary-Matthew-Stafford-AJ-Green-148229919/?fbclid=IwAR0qhKkr-4Mdf_YWcageWOmgwvd73Ygl2OguQD9-B9cA-VlLhdpE7OG6rs8 (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/LongFormArticle/Georgia-Bulldogs-Football-NFL-salary-Matthew-Stafford-AJ-Green-148229919/?fbclid=IwAR0qhKkr-4Mdf_YWcageWOmgwvd73Ygl2OguQD9-B9cA-VlLhdpE7OG6rs8)

Interesting stat, but how in the world can Cal be Number Two?
Aaron Rodgers and Desean Jackson - two very veteran skill position players.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 17, 2020, 10:04:09 PM
Is there a class of TV commercials that is more pointless and devoid of any relationship to the product they're selling than cologne/perfume commercials?
Agreed.

Also, I don't understand how the fashion industry is a thing.  The disconnect between famous fashion designers and the absurdities worn in fashion shows -----------> to the red shirt hanging on the rack in your local store......WHAT?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 17, 2020, 10:18:31 PM
Is there a class of TV commercials that is more pointless and devoid of any relationship to the product they're selling than cologne/perfume commercials?
I miss the cave men
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 17, 2020, 10:30:02 PM
I miss the cave men
(https://www.syfy.com/sites/syfy/files/styles/2280x1280_hero/public/wire/legacy/6b24c681ec5cb0596492a4dd3fab61eb_1000-images-about-clip-art-captain-caveman-clipart_1089-1144.jpeg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on June 17, 2020, 10:46:20 PM
I like the “Your Cousin from Boston” commercials Sam Adams has been airing lately.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 17, 2020, 11:35:44 PM
Yeah, I know. A commercial doesn't need to be good, it just needs to be memorable. But "memorable" doesn't mean the commercial is memorable, it means that it drills the name into your head.

That's the problem with many funny commercials--you remember the funny commercial but don't remember what it was for.

Cologne/perfume commercials are just weirdness followed by flashing the name of the product up on the screen. I don't know if they really lead to remembering all that well what product they're for.
I bet they do, especially for dopey male consumers. 

If you walk into a store with the idea of buying such a product, recognizing a name goes a long way. Chances are, most people who buy those don't know much about them, and the "Hey, I've heard of that, it's supposed to be fancy" element would carry it a lot. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 17, 2020, 11:52:38 PM
(https://www.syfy.com/sites/syfy/files/styles/2280x1280_hero/public/wire/legacy/6b24c681ec5cb0596492a4dd3fab61eb_1000-images-about-clip-art-captain-caveman-clipart_1089-1144.jpeg)
nope this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8o_YqzMBoo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8o_YqzMBoo)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 18, 2020, 07:11:57 AM
Yes... I knew what you meant.

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/proxy/8VmLj-YylBqlIMjL4UtBS5G3Odm9swXa85ddLP9JDgVJnZDAWo5dg9QwYPt0Exv2ipBbyDP6hX5ujdubC-4pclyuGa_f-4C6OssCQRSFS4gVyIYMKafrUNUPhbmXnp-B-qBY0DwVVADp8c7Z-MxuCFUL8fsWtvE)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 18, 2020, 07:21:09 AM
Apparently, women can recognize whether that shirt is a thing or from Walmart, some women.

The wife likes to visit this fancy French shop in Buckhead on occasion and I stand around looking.  I chatted with one of their many salespeople a bit and asked him if he could tell when someone who walked in was a poser or a real customer.  He hesitated a bit and told me the giveaways were the shoes and the watch.  he said some rich guys come in dressed like they just got out of bed, but they will have on an expensive watch and shoes.

I can't even think of the name of the store.  I had to look up expensive French scarves, it's Hermes.

She was delighted to find one here.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 18, 2020, 07:50:01 AM
Bass Pro Shops,Gander Mtn,Cabela's,Volunteers of America Thrift Shop?I'm kinda uppity,high end shopper meself
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 18, 2020, 07:51:49 AM
Yes... I knew what you meant.

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/proxy/8VmLj-YylBqlIMjL4UtBS5G3Odm9swXa85ddLP9JDgVJnZDAWo5dg9QwYPt0Exv2ipBbyDP6hX5ujdubC-4pclyuGa_f-4C6OssCQRSFS4gVyIYMKafrUNUPhbmXnp-B-qBY0DwVVADp8c7Z-MxuCFUL8fsWtvE)
well I knew you knew what I meant so there
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2020, 09:05:44 AM
My hands smell of garlic and basil.  I'm making spaghetti sauce.

Now my keyboard also smells.
hope you're slicing that garlic super thin and using san marzano tomatoes. if you strain the seeds out it also comes out a lot better. the seeds have all the bitterness. And I typically take a small piece of orange peel and tie it together with some basil- or peel some carrots and throw them in and just cook them with the sauce then remove. No sugar or wine or any of that bullshit. bring it up to a boil, then turn it way down, put the lid on and cook it low and slow for at least an hr. low and slow.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 18, 2020, 09:12:51 AM
hope you're slicing that garlic super thin and using san marzano tomatoes. if you strain the seeds out it also comes out a lot better. the seeds have all the bitterness. And I typically take a small piece of orange peel and tie it together with some basil- or peel some carrots and throw them in and just cook them with the sauce then remove. No sugar or wine or any of that bullshit. bring it up to a boil, then turn it way down, put the lid on and cook it low and slow for at least an hr. low and slow.
I very carefully unscrew the cap of a bottle of RAGU and its done
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2020, 09:14:28 AM
I very carefully unscrew the cap of a bottle of RAGU and its done
what kind of animal are you? I just threw up in my mouth reading this.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 18, 2020, 09:18:22 AM
what kind of animal are you? I just threw up in my mouth reading this.
Strong second.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 18, 2020, 09:23:33 AM
I smash the garlic to peel it.  I don't slice it further.  I usually use Hunt's tomatoes, or Costco brand.  I use a lot of basil, the wife grows it.  I like bell pepper and onion and celery sauteed in it.  I prefer angel hair pasta.  I use wine while cooking.

No sugar.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 18, 2020, 09:57:50 AM
Here is a real issue.  This condo has three wrap around decks on 3 levels.  They are 65" deep and about 15 feet long with railing and posts (which the HOA repairs every so often).  The surface is raw concrete.  The wife wants to cover it with something, we originally were going to do tile but she decided she doesn't like that.  I suggested fake grass (with yard line stripes perhaps), she doesn't like fake she says.  The tile issue is if the HOA has the posts repaired the tile gets torn up.

Now she has all these various ideas giving me a headache.  I don't like so many options, just decide, and fine, we'll do it.  Does anyone have a rational idea beyond outdoor carpet, fake grass, and tile?  Her latest idea is garage floor "paint", which probably is a cheap option, which is fine with me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2020, 10:02:16 AM
I smash the garlic to peel it.  I don't slice it further.  I usually use Hunt's tomatoes, or Costco brand.  I use a lot of basil, the wife grows it.  I like bell pepper and onion and celery sauteed in it.  I prefer angel hair pasta.  I use wine while cooking.

No sugar. 
The reason why I like slicing it thinly is because when you throw it in with the olive oil to sweat it, it gets all translucent and just sort of melts right into the oil.

I highly recommend you give the canned san marzano tomatoes from Italy a try. They are a little more expensive but not crazy expensive. There are a lot of different brands, just look for ones that are marked DOP and are from Italy. They are a lot better in taste and texture imo.

There's nothing better than freshly grown basil. The store bought is OK, but growing it yourself- nothing like it.

Bell pepper has got to be an American thing. You don't really see bell pepper in Italian or Italian American pasta sauces. I don't think I've ever seen it. Onion is pretty much same as garlic, it's a staple in most pasta sauces in Italian and Italian-American cooking.

Celery is typically reserved for the meat sauces. Like when you do a true bolognese sauce you start it off with celery, carrot, and onion and sweat it in some good butter.

I use wine only when I'm de-glazing the pan, I only use it and a little bit of it in a couple of sauces- like a bolognese or a sunday gravy. Bucatini is my favorite pasta. The key to cooking great pasta is salt that water like a mother- you want it to be as salty as sea water- and cook it a minute to two less than the packaging says and then throw it in with your sauce and let it finish cooking the final 1-2 mins with your sauce. Don't put oil in with the pasta water, that's just nonsense and a waste of oil. And if you need to you can always add a couple tablespoons of the pasta water to the sauce to loosen it up if it's too thick. And I never strain my pasta, I just take it right out of the water with tongs and shake off the excess water and then throw it in the pan with the sauce to finish cooking it.

The better ingredients that you buy the better pasta you'll make. Try to buy DeCecco pasta, it's hands down the best you can get from a grocery store. Try to buy Colavita Extra Virgin Olive Oil or Partanna brand- I've tried them all and those are by far the best I've found. Try to buy the DOP san marzano canned tomatoes. Try to buy the DOP Parmigiano Reggiano cheese- Costco actually has great parmigiano reggiano cheeses from Italy. And Pecorino Romano ones from Italy too. They might seem like little differences- but they are HUGE differences when it comes to the final product.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 18, 2020, 10:10:10 AM
The reason why I like slicing it thinly is because when you throw it in with the olive oil to sweat it, it gets all translucent and just sort of melts right into the oil.

I highly recommend you give the canned san marzano tomatoes from Italy a try. 
Costco has them in the large 3lb cans what i don't use I immediately freeze
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 18, 2020, 10:12:53 AM
I've tried the more costly canned tomatoes and don't taste a difference.  I often use the "fresh pasta" from WF, unless I'm lazy.

I used to make my own but it wasn't worth the effort IMHO.  I add a bit of oil to the pasta water, I think it makes the pasta less likely to clump.  I also find adding the basil shortly before serving makes a difference, I add some during simmering and then some very late, and provide it chopped for anyone who wants it on top.  I usually do it with ground beef, the mix.  I don't care if bell pepper is American, I like it, so I use it.

I've had spaghetti in Italy before in some small restaurants and it is excellent.  What I make here is different, but I like it obviously.  I used to eat spaghetti Mon-Tue-Wed and on Thursday I'd add chili powder and make chili.

The wife for some obscure reason doesn't like the same thing day after day after day, I don't know what's wrong with her.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 18, 2020, 10:14:30 AM
  Her latest idea is garage floor "paint", which probably is a cheap option, which is fine with me.
You can mix play sand in for traction or buy it that way with grit in it.I'm assuming you are quite a few floors up so safety should be factor in.Definetely wouldn't do tile unless it is one of the new Rubber type that favors traction and is light weight
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 18, 2020, 10:18:18 AM
Traction would be good, and reflective to some degree is good, as we get morning sun.  It would be bad to go over the railings.  But quick.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 18, 2020, 10:18:22 AM
Here is a real issue.  This condo has three wrap around decks on 3 levels.  They are 65" deep and about 15 feet long with railing and posts (which the HOA repairs every so often).  The surface is raw concrete.  The wife wants to cover it with something, we originally were going to do tile but she decided she doesn't like that.  I suggested fake grass (with yard line stripes perhaps), she doesn't like fake she says.  The tile issue is if the HOA has the posts repaired the tile gets torn up.

Now she has all these various ideas giving me a headache.  I don't like so many options, just decide, and fine, we'll do it.  Does anyone have a rational idea beyond outdoor carpet, fake grass, and tile?  Her latest idea is garage floor "paint", which probably is a cheap option, which is fine with me.
Garage floor epoxy with the colored flakes might be a fine solution. It will look more "finished" than raw concrete, but still be a cheap, easy, durable upgrade, and probably easy to redo if the HOA messes with it.

Also, what about a concrete stain? There are plenty of colors, and ways to apply it with striations so it doesn't look uniform. A good stain job almost looks like you've got fancy rock rather than concrete. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 18, 2020, 10:22:59 AM
MDot and I are on the same page with the sauce thing.

I love BWar's idea on the flooring. Gotta make sure to sand the floor first, for best adhesion. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 18, 2020, 10:25:46 AM
FYI here's from a concrete company re: stain:

(https://i.imgur.com/Nqcw9PC.png)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 18, 2020, 10:34:29 AM
As my wife's kitchen sign says, "I cook with wine. Sometimes it even makes it into the food."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 18, 2020, 10:48:11 AM
FYI here's from a concrete company re: stain:

(https://i.imgur.com/Nqcw9PC.png)


Looks like that might be slippery when wet. I would prefer more texture for outside use.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 18, 2020, 10:51:30 AM
I still can't figure out how to make fresh pasta that meets my standards. 

Before it's cooked, it has this beautiful yellow hue and wonderful texture. Then it goes into the pot and it turns white and is lifeless. It never comes out the way fresh pasta is supposed to be. And I don't have to tell anyone that my wife is not a fan of a pasty limp noodle either. 

I think my next step might be to allow the dough, after I roll it out, 15 minutes to rest and dry before cutting. Then after cutting, to again allow it to rest and dry for an additional 15 minutes. I wonder if the fact that I cut and cook it so quickly is not giving it enough time for it to firm up and really reach its actual structure. 

But it pisses me off. I've tried all sorts of recipes. I've tried keeping it thicker when rolling. I've tried rolling it thinner. I've tried cutting it differently. I've tried it in ravioli and just as pasta. But it never comes out how fresh pasta is supposed to be. I'm so close to giving up, but I'm stubborn.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 18, 2020, 10:52:22 AM
Looks like that might be slippery when wet. I would prefer more texture for outside use.
True. It appears they put some sort of clearcoat on it, which somewhat makes sense for a basement floor. For outdoor, it wouldn't be necessary.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2020, 11:02:23 AM
I've tried the more costly canned tomatoes and don't taste a difference.  I often use the "fresh pasta" from WF, unless I'm lazy.

I used to make my own but it wasn't worth the effort IMHO.  I add a bit of oil to the pasta water, I think it makes the pasta less likely to clump.  I also find adding the basil shortly before serving makes a difference, I add some during simmering and then some very late, and provide it chopped for anyone who wants it on top.  I usually do it with ground beef, the mix.  I don't care if bell pepper is American, I like it, so I use it.

I've had spaghetti in Italy before in some small restaurants and it is excellent.  What I make here is different, but I like it obviously.  I used to eat spaghetti Mon-Tue-Wed and on Thursday I'd add chili powder and make chili.

The wife for some obscure reason doesn't like the same thing day after day after day, I don't know what's wrong with her.
You might not be buying the legit san marzanos from Italy. The problem is a lot of them sold at grocery stores are fakes or misleading and not the true authentic thing. You have to research the brands a little and read the labels to make sure it's legit. There's nothing better than the real thing from Italy imo. They are grown in volcanic soil in Campania and have less seeds and are less acidic than most other canned tomatoes.

I never make my own pasta. I'm with you, it's mostly a waste of time and small italian markets or whole foods sells daily freshly made pasta. Besides, I like the dry DeCecco pasta better actually for most dishes. DeCecco is pasta is really just awesome. Fresh pasta is better for certain pastas while dry is better for others imo.

Adding oil to the water is just a waste of good oil, and it makes the pasta oily and when you try to throw the pasta in the saucepan to finish the cooking in the sauce it just makes the sauce sort of slide off the pasta instead of allowing the pasta to absorb into the sauce. It also ruins the pasta water- you have this oily water that you can't add to your sauce as needed- instead of having a salty, startchy water that can help loosen or emulsify a sauce.

Always adding fresh basil at the end or fresh parsley at the end is a must imo. I'll usually take the finished product off the heat, throw it in a big bowl, add fresh parsley or basil depending on what sauce I used, a tiny little knob of good butter to emulsify, a little bit of grated cheese, a tiny little bit of oil, and then give it a good toss and then serve.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2020, 11:04:46 AM
I still can't figure out how to make fresh pasta that meets my standards.

Before it's cooked, it has this beautiful yellow hue and wonderful texture. Then it goes into the pot and it turns white and is lifeless. It never comes out the way fresh pasta is supposed to be. And I don't have to tell anyone that my wife is not a fan of a pasty limp noodle either.

I think my next step might be to allow the dough, after I roll it out, 15 minutes to rest and dry before cutting. Then after cutting, to again allow it to rest and dry for an additional 15 minutes. I wonder if the fact that I cut and cook it so quickly is not giving it enough time for it to firm up and really reach its actual structure.

But it pisses me off. I've tried all sorts of recipes. I've tried keeping it thicker when rolling. I've tried rolling it thinner. I've tried cutting it differently. I've tried it in ravioli and just as pasta. But it never comes out how fresh pasta is supposed to be. I'm so close to giving up, but I'm stubborn.
I don't even both trying to make it. There's a lot of good little Italian markets that make it, and the fresh markets and whole foods make it as well.


If you want a great dry, try this:


(https://www.dececco.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/VSA0015-BUCATINI-3.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 18, 2020, 11:06:42 AM
I learned fresh pasta at a cooking school in Florence. It was very good, and I've since made it here. Not the same.

As for the tomatoes, the ones at Costco are not real (DOP). I've tried them and they do come out nice, but not the same.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2020, 11:08:03 AM
I learned fresh pasta at a cooking school in Florence. It was very good, and I've since made it here. Not the same.

As for the tomatoes, the ones at Costco are not real (DOP). I've tried them and they do come out nice, but not the same.
They have better eggs, water, vegetables, flour, cheese, meats - everything over there. It's insane.

And yeah, I think up to half of the San Marzano labeled cans sold in US aren't the actual thing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 18, 2020, 11:14:27 AM
They know how to eat, for sure. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 18, 2020, 11:20:16 AM
They have some better meats, but beef isn't one of them.  I avoid pretty much all beef in France, Italy, and Spain.  Unless you go to a super-expensive Argentinian steakhouse, the beef quality is quite poor.

Poultry and pork, on the other hand, tend to be very good.  And of course seafood in the regions where it's common and popular.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on June 18, 2020, 11:25:46 AM
Yeah pasta is one of those things where fresh is better if done right, but not worth the effort for the slight amount it's better, and half the time it's not even better at all.  But yes, any Italian market that makes it fresh, I'm all over that
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 18, 2020, 11:28:28 AM
They have some better meats, but beef isn't one of them.  I avoid pretty much all beef in France, Italy, and Spain.  Unless you go to a super-expensive Argentinian steakhouse, the beef quality is quite poor.

Poultry and pork, on the other hand, tend to be very good.  And of course seafood in the regions where it's common and popular.
I dunno about that. I've had some wonderful steaks in Tuscany.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 18, 2020, 11:53:11 AM
I am with utee, I avoid beef in France, never had any better that OK.  They don't use feed lots apparently.  Our chef friend in Cincy says the same thing.

The wife thinks our pork is better but maybe it is how I prepare it.  She likes their chicken, it all tastes like chicken to me.  Our gator is better.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 18, 2020, 11:53:22 AM
We made pasta in Rome and I finally was able to do it well. It's enjoyable to make, but I don't really even like pasta that much so it's not like I'm doing it every night
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 18, 2020, 11:59:20 AM
Also now that there is a mayonnaise bowl I had better learn to make mayo
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 18, 2020, 12:22:57 PM
I dunno about that. I've had some wonderful steaks in Tuscany.
Yes. Tuscany is the beef region of Italy. It's what they're known for. 

After my wife and I got married in Florence we went to a steakhouse for dinner, and it was up there with any of the fine steakhouses I've been to in the US.  

I will say that I thought the food in Italy was absolutely top-notch [almost] everywhere we ate during the whole trip. The food in Paris? Meh. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 18, 2020, 12:40:20 PM
A lot of Paris caters to tourists.  You really have to get off the tourist areas to get good food there.

The best meals I've ever had were in France, probably because I've spent a lot more time there than anywhere else outside the US.  We stumbled across some places in tiny villages that were heavenly that we still talk about and wonder if we can find them again.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 18, 2020, 12:46:03 PM
A lot of Paris caters to tourists.  You really have to get off the tourist areas to get good food there.

The best meals I've ever had were in France, probably because I've spent a lot more time there than anywhere else outside the US.  We stumbled across some places in tiny villages that were heavenly that we still talk about and wonder if we can find them again.
That's the thing... I'm sure that's true, but I also think that a lot of Rome/Cinque Terre/Florence caters to tourists too...

Yet literally everything I ate in Italy was amazing, with the exception of one little appetizer we had at a place that was DEFINITELY catering to tourists. Even the sidewalk cafe a block from the Colosseum with the sidewalk vendors hawking products 25 feet from us had a prosciutto and burrata appetizer that I've not had the equal ever since. It was like I'd have to deliberately seek out bad food. 

Whereas Paris it seemed like they didn't care. It was okay, I guess, but I didn't find any meals there that I was impressed by. I'm sure I was just at the wrong places, but again if you have to try THAT hard to find the right places, it's a little concerning.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 18, 2020, 12:57:31 PM
I imagine the Parisians know the tourists will pay a lot for just about anything and they take advantage of that.  Maybe in Rome they retained some pride in their work, or they are not as avaricious.  Another thing I see in Paris is a fair number of American chain places, McDs, Starbucks, Pizza Hut, KFC, , Burger King, etc.  That is a bit depressing.  The wife tells me her kids loved to go to "McDoo" back in the day.  They also serve a LOT of Coke, even more now that the blood alcohol limits was lowered.  

The Parisians I know dislike tourists, they might like their money, but there is a definite attitude about tourists you don't find in other French cities.  But the times I've been on my own and gone into a bar or bistro away from the tourist areas I have been treated very well.  I try and speak French and they help me rather than just going to English to cut to the chase.

The wife claims I have a very good accent but I know that isn't really true.

She's been talking about how she wants to go back of late.  I say maybe October, maybe.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 18, 2020, 01:03:56 PM
I dunno about that. I've had some wonderful steaks in Tuscany.

I tried a highly recommended steak at one place in Tuscany because people lied to me saying this exact thing.  Not good at all.  Slightly better than France, though.

I don't do beef in Europe, just nowhere close to even an average steak at an average place in the US.

And there's so much other great food there, that there's just no need.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 18, 2020, 01:07:56 PM
On the way to Capital Reef there is a farm full of those banded cows that are commonplace in England. 

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/IM5tYCd-2f4v8HBLcMmkPJadDy1mCa4qNw0IRYpZXS7sqHI5It_dmI_mFE3F4gFOU3F8oQwfEzE0IMxMvNS-BaTcW25sBA)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 18, 2020, 01:17:13 PM
we call them Oreos here in Iowa
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 18, 2020, 01:17:44 PM
Look like cop cars.  5-O cows?  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 18, 2020, 01:46:19 PM
Neapolitan? 

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/_0qIc363965g_leJ9dIlqgliKTUArHptbU8ugh1nIa0wTAv2_rzjzzjnW3OqvSBRdAfpvpPDwLpiGX1RJH_guQ)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 18, 2020, 01:53:08 PM
Having grandparents right off the boat from Italy- could barely speak English- I learned a lot about cooking pasta sauce and meats.  

I have had the pleasure of tasting some amazing sauces, but have yet to taste one I like better than my grandparents. 

They grew their own tomatoes- back before the genetic engineering of them we get in most stores now. 
They always de- seeded them by hand, and always used meat to flavor. Beef, veal, pork or chicken and usually some combination.   Mouth watering!

I will add, most pasta recipes over use garlic.  Theirs- the “recipe” I follow now uses only a little 

Their dishes were never thick and goopy- always simple and understated- always left me wanting more. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2020, 02:05:17 PM
I dunno about that. I've had some wonderful steaks in Tuscany.
Yeah, to this day the best steak I ever had was in Tuscany. They cooked it over a huge hot stone and might’ve only had salt, pepper, little rosemary, and squirt of lemon. Very simple shit but might’ve been the best steak I’ve ever had.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 18, 2020, 02:07:46 PM
Having grandparents right off the boat from Italy- could barely speak English- I learned a lot about cooking pasta sauce and meats. 

I have had the pleasure of tasting some amazing sauces, but have yet to taste one I like better than my grandparents.

They grew their own tomatoes- back before the genetic engineering of them we get in most stores now.
They always de- seeded them by hand, and always used meat to flavor. Beef, veal, pork or chicken and usually some combination.  Mouth watering!

I will add, most pasta recipes over use garlic.  Theirs- the “recipe” I follow now uses only a little

Their dishes were never thick and goopy- always simple and understated- always left me wanting more.
Yeah, European-Italian food and USA-Italian food are two entirely different cuisines. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 18, 2020, 02:10:36 PM
Yeah, European-Italian food and USA-Italian food are two entirely different cuisines.
Same with Chinese food.

The shit they eat over there would make Rambo puke.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on June 18, 2020, 02:20:54 PM
Yeah, European-Italian food and USA-Italian food are two entirely different cuisines.
You don't get more authentic than Sbarros
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 18, 2020, 02:21:07 PM
Same with Chinese food.

The shit they eat over there would make Rambo puke.
I eat a lot of authentic Chinese food and like most of it, although there are a few things I don't love.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 18, 2020, 02:25:42 PM
Buckeyes announce home and home with Alabama in '27 and '28
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 18, 2020, 02:27:08 PM
Same with Chinese food.

The shit they eat over there would make Rambo puke.
😂😂
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on June 18, 2020, 02:27:17 PM
Buckeyes announce home and home with Alabama in '27 and '28
Might be the next time either one of them play
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on June 18, 2020, 02:27:34 PM
I eat a lot of authentic Chinese food and like most of it, although there are a few things I don't love.
Bats?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2020, 02:27:46 PM
Having grandparents right off the boat from Italy- could barely speak English- I learned a lot about cooking pasta sauce and meats. 

I have had the pleasure of tasting some amazing sauces, but have yet to taste one I like better than my grandparents.

They grew their own tomatoes- back before the genetic engineering of them we get in most stores now.
They always de- seeded them by hand, and always used meat to flavor. Beef, veal, pork or chicken and usually some combination.  Mouth watering!

I will add, most pasta recipes over use garlic.  Theirs- the “recipe” I follow now uses only a little

Their dishes were never thick and goopy- always simple and understated- always left me wanting more.
Those are the best sauces man- the ones with all the tomato seeds taken all out and cooked slow in beef, pork, and veal slow cooked for hours. Getting rid of the seeds removes all the bitterness and the pork, veal, and beef leaves flavors in the sauce that are mind-blowing. 

I typically strain the seeds out of the tomato, and brown a whole bunch of meats together in a huge pan- I use prosciutto di parma ends, whole chunks of pancetta or gunciale, some good Italian sausage- wine & cheese is my favorite Italian sausage but it’s hard to find- some seasoned beef spare rib, some seasoned pork ribs or pork shoulder- just brown them and seal them- then take them out- deglaze the pan with white wine if there’s a bunch of sticky stuff at the bottom. Then I put in extra virgin olive oil and sweat some garlic and onion out. Then I add the deseeded San marzano tomato, then I put all those meats back in, bring it up to a boil, put it on low, pinch of salt and pepper in there, tie up some basil and a piece of an orange peel and put a couple peeled whole carrots in, stir it up, put the lid on and cook it low for 4+ hrs. 

I’ll usually make meatballs with pork, beef, and veal and cook them on a shallow fry like 80% then finish them in the sauce with all the other meats. 

Take everything out and strain the sauce at the end and what you’ve got left is incredible. I make huge quantities and I usually take half the sauce and make a palomino sauce with it. You do that by blending grated parmigiano reggiano cheese and heavy whipping cream with and half of a cooked carrot in a blender. That palomino sauce is like crack cocaine.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2020, 02:29:26 PM
You don't get more authentic than Sbarros
LOL. Michael Scott immediately jumped into my mind when I read this.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 18, 2020, 02:30:22 PM
Those are the best sauces man- the ones with all the tomato seeds taken all out and cooked slow in beef, pork, and veal slow cooked for hours. Getting rid of the seeds removes all the bitterness and the pork, veal, and beef leaves flavors in the sauce that are mind-blowing.

I typically strain the seeds out of the tomato, and brown a whole bunch of meats together in a huge pan- I use prosciutto di parma ends, whole chunks of pancetta or gunciale, some good Italian sausage- wine & cheese is my favorite Italian sausage but it’s hard to find- some seasoned beef spare rib, some seasoned pork ribs or pork shoulder- just brown them and seal them- then take them out- deglaze the pan with white wine if there’s a bunch of sticky stuff at the bottom. Then I put in extra virgin olive oil and sweat some garlic and onion out. Then I add the deseeded San marzano tomato, then I put all those meats back in, bring it up to a boil, put it on low, pinch of salt and pepper in there, tie up some basil and a piece of an orange peel and put a couple peeled whole carrots in, stir it up, put the lid on and cook it low for 4+ hrs.

I’ll usually make meatballs with pork, beef, and veal and cook them on a shallow fry like 80% then finish them in the sauce with all the other meats.

Take everything out and strain the sauce at the end and what you’ve got left is incredible. I make huge quantities and I usually take half the sauce and make a palomino sauce with it. You do that by blending grated parmigiano reggiano cheese and heavy whipping cream with and half of a cooked carrot in a blender. That palomino sauce is like crack cocaine.
Damn.  That’s pretty damn close to what they did. And it’s making me hungry,!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 18, 2020, 02:35:11 PM
Bats?
No way man, I love eating bats.  We have a huge supply of them here in the ATX.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 18, 2020, 02:36:50 PM
I eat a lot of authentic Chinese food and like most of it, although there are a few things I don't love.
Have you been to China, outside of the big cities?

My buddy lost 100 lbs supervising a sterile factory construction out in the boonies. He went in at 400 and came back at 300.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 18, 2020, 02:38:36 PM
Damn.  That’s pretty damn close to what they did. And it’s making me hungry,!
That's how I do mine too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 18, 2020, 02:38:54 PM
No way man, I love eating bats.  We have a huge supply of them here in the ATX.
That's why you're all bat shit crazy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2020, 02:39:20 PM
Yes. Tuscany is the beef region of Italy. It's what they're known for.

After my wife and I got married in Florence we went to a steakhouse for dinner, and it was up there with any of the fine steakhouses I've been to in the US. 

I will say that I thought the food in Italy was absolutely top-notch [almost] everywhere we ate during the whole trip. The food in Paris? Meh.
I love great French food, but Italian will always be my favorite. It’s harder to make great french food than it is great italian food imo. They are just completely different styles, different techniques.

The problem with Paris is it’s such a tourist trap. If you eat by the Eiffel Tower or the Louvre or in Montmartre or near Champs-Deelysees- most of the restaurants you randomly walk into off the street will suck. You have to do your research or have friends give you tips- you really need to know where to eat to get a great meal in Paris. And if you have the money there are probably more very expensive fine dining restaurants there that will blow your tits off then anywhere else in the world.

Whereas in most places in Italy- 90% of the restaurants you just walk into off the street are going to be good af.

I think Italian food is my fav, and I am biased, but French is probably #2.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 18, 2020, 02:41:13 PM
I enjoy cooking French foods. It's challenging and can be very rewarding if done right.

Some of the peasant foods are really great too, and not all that hard to make.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 18, 2020, 02:42:28 PM
Have you been to China, outside of the big cities?

My buddy lost 100 lbs supervising a sterile factory construction out in the boonies. He went in at 400 and came back at 300.
Nah, but there's a very large Chinese population here in Austin due to the University and massive presence of Dell, IBM, Apple, and other tech giants.  We have many authentic Chinese restaurants that I'll hit with my Chinese vendors and ODM partners when they're in town, as well as one of my good friends in EE at UT whose parents owned and operated an authentic Chinese restaurant here when we were in school together.  And then all of my trips in days of yore to Silicon Valley.  I've had a wide variety of authentic Chinese dishes over the decades.

I'll eat pretty much anything, but I don't always love everything.  The French eat some weird stuff too, but I tend to like most of it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2020, 02:48:51 PM
Have you been to China, outside of the big cities?

My buddy lost 100 lbs supervising a sterile factory construction out in the boonies. He went in at 400 and came back at 300.
This should be a new diet. Let’s start it. We send people looking to lose weight to China and force them to stay there for 6 months or more. 

The Chinese Diet - Fat Americans are guaranteed to lose 50 pounds! 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 18, 2020, 02:52:40 PM
Top end French cuisine is pricey.  But, you can get great Italian food for a song, in Italy.  It tends to be more "basic", in a good way.  French cuisine can take a lot of hours of preparation, multiple courses etc.

The best meal I ever had was lunch in some small town in Champagne, it was attached to a motel that didn't look like much.  The menus didn't have pricing except the one my friend got (we were four).  It probably took four hours.  After eating we moved to another room with plants all about for cheese, and then to another room for coffee etc.  I have no idea what the bill was.  Fortunately.

The second best was at a place near Beaune, Ermitage de Corton. 

https://www.ermitagecorton.com/en/ (https://www.ermitagecorton.com/en/)

 I do know how much that was.  I think the third best was in Chablis this February, it was Sunday and nothing was open, except this place again attached to a motel.  I ordered a Premier Grand Cru there for 74 euros.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g1079400-d1220562-Reviews-Hostellerie_des_Clos-Chablis_Yonne_Bourgogne_Franche_Comte.html (https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g1079400-d1220562-Reviews-Hostellerie_des_Clos-Chablis_Yonne_Bourgogne_Franche_Comte.html)

The neat thing is that restaurants in hotels can be superb, and often are (outside Paris), not tres expensive.  Here in the US, dining in your motel or hotel is often not a good idea.  It's a different philosophy of course.

https://en.domaine-de-bayeux.com/ (https://en.domaine-de-bayeux.com/)

We stayed three nights at this place in Bayeux.  The first night we were tired after exploring Normandy, so I said we'd just eat there.  It was so good we dined there the next three nights.  That is a fantastic place to stay if you want to visit the Omaha beach area, about 100 euros a night.  

And there was a place near Bordeaux that was superb, and another place in Lourdes that we also dined three nights in a row, which we rarely do.

We somehow missed great good in Barcelona.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2020, 02:55:47 PM
Never been to Japan, but they are suppose to have the best beef in the world. I’d love to go one day just to try. I’m dying to go try it actually. 

Most of the Wagyu sold in the US - something like 90+% of it isn’t even real Wagyu. I know I had one at Capital Grille before that was like $100 and I’m 100% sure it was the fake stuff because there was nothing at all special about it. 

As for seafood, I’ll say the best I’ve ever had was in Sicily. The fish market in Syracuse is a sight to see. And a lot of the small restaurants there- the seafood they serve for dinner was caught that same morning by local fisherman. It was incredible just about everywhere I went in Sicily. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2020, 03:01:56 PM
Top end French cuisine is pricey.  But, you can get great Italian food for a song, in Italy.  It tends to be more "basic", in a good way.  French cuisine can take a lot of hours of preparation, multiple courses etc.

The best meal I ever had was lunch in some small town in Champagne, it was attached to a motel that didn't look like much.  The menus didn't have pricing except the one my friend got (we were four).  It probably took four hours.  After eating we moved to another room with plants all about for cheese, and then to another room for coffee etc.  I have no idea what the bill was.  Fortunately.

The second best was at a place near Beaune, Ermitage de Corton.

https://www.ermitagecorton.com/en/ (https://www.ermitagecorton.com/en/)

 I do know how much that was.  I think the third best was in Chablis this February, it was Sunday and nothing was open, except this place again attached to a motel.  I ordered a Premier Grand Cru there for 74 euros.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g1079400-d1220562-Reviews-Hostellerie_des_Clos-Chablis_Yonne_Bourgogne_Franche_Comte.html (https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g1079400-d1220562-Reviews-Hostellerie_des_Clos-Chablis_Yonne_Bourgogne_Franche_Comte.html)

The neat thing is that restaurants in hotels can be superb, and often are (outside Paris), not tres expensive.  Here in the US, dining in your motel or hotel is often not a good idea.  It's a different philosophy of course.

https://en.domaine-de-bayeux.com/ (https://en.domaine-de-bayeux.com/)

We stayed three nights at this place in Bayeux.  The first night we were tired after exploring Normandy, so I said we'd just eat there.  It was so good we dined there the next three nights.  That is a fantastic place to stay if you want to visit the Omaha beach area, about 100 euros a night. 

And there was a place near Bordeaux that was superb, and another place in Lourdes that we also dined three nights in a row, which we rarely do.

We somehow missed great good in Barcelona.
I’m saving this post for the next time I’m in France lol. I was suppose to go in April for 10 days but my trip got canceled thanks to stupid ass coronavirus.

France has more of the pricey Michelin starred fine dining restaurants than Italy. Northern Italy has some of those, but nowhere near as many as France- and the south of Italy and Sicily was and still is very poor.

Man I LOVED the food in Barcelona. The seafood especially was great. Barcelona might be my favorite place in the world. I could see myself living there lol.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 18, 2020, 03:06:53 PM
I was not too impress with Capitol Grill, it's a chain of course.  Eddie Merlot's had Wagyu stuff one the menu that was superb (and pricey).  They are a small chain.  We went there a lot because I had a wine locker and could drink at retail pricing.

They even had Wagyu hot dogs once.  There are a couple places here we might try some time, STK up the street and Bones.  I can do a pretty good steak here though.  There is a place here called The Gunshow that is highly regarded by people who know, but they want a credit card to reserve the table and if you don't show there is a $75 charge.  Kinda turned me off a bit.

https://gunshowatl.com/ (https://gunshowatl.com/)

Chef Kevin Gillespie’s restaurant Gunshow offers a bold, interactive take on the traditional dining experience. Dishes are presented to guests tableside by the chefs and cooks that prepared them. Cocktails are prepared tableside on a rolling bar cart where diners can talk to the bartender about the cocktails being prepared for them. Gunshow is a dinner and a show all in one
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 18, 2020, 03:09:24 PM
Yeah, I loved the food in Barcelona. Awesome seafood and tapas. I could see myself living there, or in Florence, or Sicily. Not only is the seafood great in Sicily, but I would challenge anyone to find me a better cannoli. I'm not much for what they call pizza, however. Livorno is another seafood haven.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 18, 2020, 03:10:00 PM
I don't know why we missed good food in Barcelona exactly, we were there four days and nights.  We only had lunch, which might be part of it.  One place was mediocre.  The others were fine but not memorable.  We liked the city a lot though.  We walked 13 miles one day.

One vacation I have planned for someday is to drive the Iberian Peninsula and stay near the coast each night.  I hear Lisbon is great.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 18, 2020, 03:11:46 PM
I loved Sicily as well.  Sicilian white table wines are my favorite whites in the world.  So cheap, so good with the seafood.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 18, 2020, 03:15:18 PM
Yeah, I loved the food in Barcelona. Awesome seafood and tapas. I could see myself living there, or in Florence, or Sicily. Not only is the seafood great in Sicily, but I would challenge anyone to find me a better cannoli. I'm not much for what they call pizza, however. Livorno is another seafood haven.
They do some weird things to pizza in Europe.

In Nantes, France I got a pizza "avec oeuf" and I thought that the egg would be somehow cooked.  Nope.  They brought the hot pizza to my table, cracked the egg in front of me on top of my pizza, and went on their way.  The French locals there told me that the hot pizza "cooked" the egg.  It really didn't, not much anyway, but I actually found that I enjoyed it anyway.  Still weird though.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2020, 03:18:57 PM
Yeah, I loved the food in Barcelona. Awesome seafood and tapas. I could see myself living there, or in Florence, or Sicily. Not only is the seafood great in Sicily, but I would challenge anyone to find me a better cannoli. I'm not much for what they call pizza, however. Livorno is another seafood haven.
Sicily is where the cannoli was invented. Sicily has the best sweets and seafood in Italy imo. Maybe even the world. Both are just mind-blowingly good. When you’re eating that stuff over there it’s like- how does this taste so freaking good. 

I’m with you, the pizzas I had in Sicily were just OK. Nothing to write home about. Rome and Naples had the best pizzas I’ve ever had. There was this place in Rome that the name escapes me but the pizza had thinly sliced potato and ricotta cheese- it was insanely good. And Naples, well Naples is the birthplace of pizza. 

I really want to go to Sardinia next. It looks absolutely breathtaking. If I win the next powerball I might go off the grid and move there lol.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 18, 2020, 03:21:24 PM
I visited Sardinia on a cruise. We did an overnight stay there, from 8AM the first day, until 6PM the second day. We got to see a lot. It's a wonderful place.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 18, 2020, 03:27:52 PM
I'm getting hungry.  Options for dinner:

Fox Bros.
Sweetwater Brewery
Empire State South
Barcelona Wine Bar
Bulla Bulla
South City Kitchen
Lure
Some place in Ponce City Market
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2020, 03:34:49 PM
I visited Sardinia on a cruise. We did an overnight stay there, from 8AM the first day, until 6PM the second day. We got to see a lot. It's a wonderful place.
It looks unreal. The beaches there look insane. I think it’s a lot less populated than Sicily though, and maybe it doesn’t have as many tourist attractions or cultural landmarks or is known for its cuisine in the same way as Sicily. Sicily seems to be a place that a lot more people visit and are aware of than Sardinia. 

I’m really dying to get to Corsica as well. And Greece as well. I’ve never been to Greece and I want to go so bad. That’s actually probably #1 on my next trip. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 18, 2020, 03:35:37 PM
Count me in for the Barcelona wine bar!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 18, 2020, 03:36:45 PM
It looks unreal. The beaches there look insane. I think it’s a lot less populated than Sicily though, and maybe it doesn’t have as many tourist attractions or cultural landmarks or is known for its cuisine in the same way as Sicily. Sicily seems to be a place that a lot more people visit and are aware of than Sardinia.

I’m really dying to get to Corsica as well. And Greece as well. I’ve never been to Greece and I want to go so bad. That’s actually probably #1 on my next trip.

We were supposed to be in Budapest, Croatia, and Greece-- RIGHT.  NOW.

Thanks for nothing, Coronavirus.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on June 18, 2020, 03:38:38 PM
It looks unreal. The beaches there look insane. I think it’s a lot less populated than Sicily though, and maybe it doesn’t have as many tourist attractions or cultural landmarks or is known for its cuisine in the same way as Sicily. Sicily seems to be a place that a lot more people visit and are aware of than Sardinia.

I’m really dying to get to Corsica as well. And Greece as well. I’ve never been to Greece and I want to go so bad. That’s actually probably #1 on my next trip.
The Greek Isles are cool.  Mainland?  Terrible.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2020, 03:43:54 PM
I'm getting hungry.  Options for dinner:

Fox Bros.
Sweetwater Brewery
Empire State South
Barcelona Wine Bar
Bulla Bulla
South City Kitchen
Lure
Some place in Ponce City Market
I ate at this fast casual Italian place in Ponce City Market and it was surprisingly good. I was shocked. 

They made a carbonara pasta with Bucatini and cooked the pasta perfectly al dente. They didn’t use any cream at all to make the sauce. Just eggs, cheese, and freshly ground black pepper and a little pasta water. And I think they even used guanciale. I was shocked at how true to form it was and how good it was. 

Ponce City Market is pretty bad ass. Atlanta is really cool. I love that city. And that little Italy area on the west side of midtown is pretty bad ass. That Antico pizza place there and the illys cafe are go to spots for me anytime I’m in Atlanta.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 18, 2020, 03:44:28 PM
time to pop the ol Hungry Man Dinner into the oven yum
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2020, 03:46:58 PM
We were supposed to be in Budapest, Croatia, and Greece-- RIGHT.  NOW.

Thanks for nothing, Coronavirus.
Budapest and Croatia look amazing as well. 

I feel you man, I was suppose to go to France and Spain for 10 days in April. That got torpedoed thanks to the dumbass coronavirus. And it took the airline and Airbnb foreeeeever to process the refunds. My guess is they were hit with so many cancellations up the ass that it just took them forrrrrrrevvvvver.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2020, 03:49:35 PM
The Greek Isles are cool.  Mainland?  Terrible.
Athens was just so so? I definitely want to go see Athens, but I do kind of want to experience the islands more. So I get where you’re coming from, I guess.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 18, 2020, 03:53:07 PM
I don't have much desire to see Athens.  We had one day planned there, just because that was our route out of Europe, but a full week on one of the islands, with day-trips planned to a couple of others.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2020, 04:01:32 PM
I don't have much desire to see Athens.  We had one day planned there, just because that was our route out of Europe, but a full week on one of the islands, with day-trips planned to a couple of others.
Dude...this is where democracy and western civilization was born. I want to see it for that alone.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 18, 2020, 04:32:59 PM
Meh.  I'll stick to the islands, where delicious food and sun-drenched beaches are born.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 18, 2020, 05:05:46 PM
I ate at this fast casual Italian place in Ponce City Market and it was surprisingly good. I was shocked.

They made a carbonara pasta with Bucatini and cooked the pasta perfectly al dente. They didn’t use any cream at all to make the sauce. Just eggs, cheese, and freshly ground black pepper and a little pasta water. And I think they even used guanciale. I was shocked at how true to form it was and how good it was.

Ponce City Market is pretty bad ass. Atlanta is really cool. I love that city. And that little Italy area on the west side of midtown is pretty bad ass. That Antico pizza place there and the illys cafe are go to spots for me anytime I’m in Atlanta.
I don't quite know why so many really good Italian places are near us.  We can walk to Ponce City Market.  I know that place well.  La Pulcinella is very good.  A new Persian place is supposed to open near us this summer.  The wife has some kind of garden club thing at 6 PM, some ladies in the building talking about how they do their decks.  Sounds exciting.  I decided on Lure as we have gift cards for it.  Well, the wife decided.

https://atlanta.eater.com/2019/5/17/18629106/rumis-kitchen-persian-restaurant-opening-midtown-atlanta (https://atlanta.eater.com/2019/5/17/18629106/rumis-kitchen-persian-restaurant-opening-midtown-atlanta)


https://pastadapulcinella.com/menu

La Tavola is very good, we usually drive to it though.


 (https://pastadapulcinella.com/menu)https://latavolatrattoria.com/


 (https://latavolatrattoria.com/)https://ninosatlanta.com/ (https://ninosatlanta.com/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 18, 2020, 05:06:13 PM
My wife loved the pizza in Rome.  It's definitely it's own thing, and I promised to try and recreate it but have yet to live up to that promise.  There's a pizza place near us that sells a white pizza that is just awesome.  It doesn't have the Roman style crust but I think I could do up a crust (Serious Eats has a recipe) and also top it with salt, olive oil, cheese and garlic.  Maybe tomorrow...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on June 18, 2020, 05:09:06 PM
I realize I'm several pages late, but @Drew4UTk (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1) I thought you'd appreciate this. My father-in-law made this for our home office; arrived today:

(https://i.imgur.com/RxFTU9p.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 18, 2020, 05:11:40 PM
That's really nice.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 18, 2020, 05:19:13 PM
That does look nice.  My wife is getting into woodworking and built a chair that I'm happily lounging in right now.  She put some new columns on our front porch and now wants to build a couch.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on June 18, 2020, 05:45:24 PM
I realize I'm several pages late, but @Drew4UTk (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1) I thought you'd appreciate this. My father-in-law made this for our home office; arrived today:

(https://i.imgur.com/RxFTU9p.jpg)
i love those lines! sleek and minimalistic- just the way i like it.  very clean!!!  i'm trying t identify the wood... is it beech? maple perhaps? when i try to blow the image up it loses clarity... at any rate that is a very good job!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 18, 2020, 05:47:17 PM
Same with Chinese food.

The shit they eat over there would make Rambo puke.
Man... REAL Chinese food is delicious. 

American Chinese food is oversauced and syrupy, most of the time. 

Of course, much like Italy being a collection of different regions with very different cuisine, and America being a collection of different regions each with certain specialties and unique dishes, China is a collection of provinces with widely varying cuisine. Give me Sichuan / Hunan every day over Shanghainese / Cantonese. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 18, 2020, 05:53:09 PM
There is a place here called The Gunshow that is highly regarded by people who know, but they want a credit card to reserve the table and if you don't show there is a $75 charge.  Kinda turned me off a bit.

https://gunshowatl.com/ (https://gunshowatl.com/)

Chef Kevin Gillespie’s restaurant Gunshow offers a bold, interactive take on the traditional dining experience. Dishes are presented to guests tableside by the chefs and cooks that prepared them. Cocktails are prepared tableside on a rolling bar cart where diners can talk to the bartender about the cocktails being prepared for them. Gunshow is a dinner and a show all in one
If you watch Top Chef, he was on the most recent season. The finale is airing tonight. 

I'm not going to offer any spoilers regarding Kevin. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 18, 2020, 05:56:43 PM
Oh, and if you love food but don't watch Top Chef, you're missing out. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 18, 2020, 06:06:45 PM
Man... REAL Chinese food is delicious.

American Chinese food is oversauced and syrupy, most of the time.

Of course, much like Italy being a collection of different regions with very different cuisine, and America being a collection of different regions each with certain specialties and unique dishes, China is a collection of provinces with widely varying cuisine. Give me Sichuan / Hunan every day over Shanghainese / Cantonese.
My buddy was on near Nepal. There was nothing delicious.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on June 18, 2020, 06:22:53 PM
Man... REAL Chinese food is delicious.

American Chinese food is oversauced and syrupy, most of the time.

Of course, much like Italy being a collection of different regions with very different cuisine, and America being a collection of different regions each with certain specialties and unique dishes, China is a collection of provinces with widely varying cuisine. Give me Sichuan / Hunan every day over Shanghainese / Cantonese.
Real Chinese food- that which isn't prepared in a high profile restaurant, to my taste and sensibility- is far from delicious... and to the point a person would have to be pretty dang hungry to consider it.  now, IN a high profile restaurant? you'd be right.  this is doubly true for Cambodian, Vietnamese, ect... even Filipino... i don't know how those folks develop a taste for their 'average' fare whatsoever... the shocking thing to me is the difference between their 'average' and their premier- it's NOT like they don't know what good food is!!! 

somewhat funny story:  During Ramadan one year, and while in Doha Qatar, I would race to find food before sunrise- knowing it would be night before available again, and working 16-20 hour days that kept me from going out at night and enjoying the feasts.... I was so hungry I stopped at a gas station and ate a 'kebab' intended for the Indian work force.... and it was fantastic... a few mornings later i got to the care-for mall just in time for Starbucks (and my required Kahwa- means coffee- but was a M.E. 'style' with dregs- Latte at the time) to be closing... they had ONE chicken salad pita left and i purchased it........ and i've never ever been sicker due to food poisoning than that.  It was coming from every place it could- i had a choice as to which i wanted to clean off the floor (gross, i know).   My villa and master bath had a bidet but i had it used it as a planter some time prior (suggested by the cleaning staff- who said 'all the American's do it'?) ... but.... (again, gross but funny) each bathroom was equipped with what we would call a wand- the kind you find in some kitchen sinks to spray with.... intended for the same purpose as the bidet... the bathroom was wall to wall marble.. only the ceiling wasn't... so.. after the fireworks stopped (a few days of this) I fired up a cigar, slung dishwashing soap all over the room, and sprayed everything from top to bottom making sure it was legitimately 'clean'... I've NEVER eaten anything from any Starbucks since... i stopped by that gas station many times (after that initial discovery). 

I got pretty jacked up in Mumbai once, too... made the mistake of drinking water from a glass when i didn't know the source, or, i'm pretty sure that is what it was.... 

 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 18, 2020, 06:24:06 PM
My buddy was on near Nepal. There was nothing delicious.
I find it hard to believe that people are deliberately eating crap...

...oh wait, Americans go to McDonald's every day. I stand corrected.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on June 18, 2020, 06:27:31 PM
I'll check, but I think it's either maple or cherry.

He's quite good--it's his retirement hobby, which has been awesome for us. He's made us two sideboards, a coffee table, end table, bedside tables, and an entertainment center. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 18, 2020, 06:31:51 PM
Real Chinese food- that which isn't prepared in a high profile restaurant, to my taste and sensibility- is far from delicious... and to the point a person would have to be pretty dang hungry to consider it.  now, IN a high profile restaurant? you'd be right.  this is doubly true for Cambodian, Vietnamese, ect... even Filipino... i don't know how those folks develop a taste for their 'average' fare whatsoever... the shocking thing to me is the difference between their 'average' and their premier- it's NOT like they don't know what good food is!!!
I dunno. Most of the places I went to when I've been over there weren't exactly "high profile" establishments. But... I was always in major cities so even the low-end places maybe had better sanitary precautions than the places out in the boonies. 

But again, if you want to talk about the difference between "average" and "premier", a lot more people in this country eat McDonald's and Outback than eat Ruth's Chris and Morton's. Some of our "average" food is pretty sh!t too--but I'll grant that we have better sanitary and food safety guidelines here than most other countries.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 18, 2020, 06:40:46 PM
We went to Ruth's Chris once.  It was mundane.  Same with Morton's.

Meh.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 18, 2020, 06:46:47 PM
We went to Ruth's Chris once.  It was mundane.  Same with Morton's.

Meh.
Those were picked because they're national chains, and they're very good. Not because they're the best. 

I do prefer Ruth's Chris over Morton's though... That sizzling plate with the hot butter is just a visceral hit in my lizard brain... 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 18, 2020, 06:52:28 PM
They call me Mr. Tibbs!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 18, 2020, 06:52:56 PM
South City Kitchen won out, Lure is full apparently.

Same group.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 18, 2020, 06:54:11 PM
I'm hard on steak places.  It's not that hard to fix.  I liked Eddie Merlot's because of the wine program.

I could get great wines for retail pricing.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 18, 2020, 07:00:58 PM
I'm hard on steak places.  It's not that hard to fix.  I liked Eddie Merlot's because of the wine program.

I could get great wines for retail pricing.
Same boat here. For my wife and I to go out to a steak dinner is a $200-250 proposition.

To do the same thing at home isn't cheap, mind you... I'd probably spend north of $100 when you consider the cost of steaks at my good butcher, what bottle(s) of wine we open, etc. 

If I restricted myself to the same size steaks as what I'd get at the steakhouse, and the same class of wine we're buying there, we're probably talking an $80 dinner made at home. And if I tried to get the same size steaks at the steakhouse, and we were buying the same class of wine we open at home, we're talking $400. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on June 18, 2020, 07:20:57 PM
Athens was just so so? I definitely want to go see Athens, but I do kind of want to experience the islands more. So I get where you’re coming from, I guess.
So so?  I'd go lower.  It's a dump.  My least favorite place I've been in all of Europe.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2020, 07:21:47 PM
I dunno. Most of the places I went to when I've been over there weren't exactly "high profile" establishments. But... I was always in major cities so even the low-end places maybe had better sanitary precautions than the places out in the boonies.

But again, if you want to talk about the difference between "average" and "premier", a lot more people in this country eat McDonald's and Outback than eat Ruth's Chris and Morton's. Some of our "average" food is pretty sh!t too--but I'll grant that we have better sanitary and food safety guidelines here than most other countries.
Are your average Americans eating cat, dog, and fried bugs on a stick like the Chinese? Or any of this shit: 

https://listverse.com/2020/03/16/bizarre-chinese-food/amp/

Ya, didn’t think so. I’m kinda with badge, Chinese food sucks dirty ass in my not so humble opinion. Have zero desire to ever go to China. F**k that place.

By the way, that new “fresh” never frozen cooked to order quarter pounder at McDonalds is pretty damn good. I was shocked actually. It’s the only good thing on their menu though. Oh that and their fries- their fries are like crack cocaine when fresh. Have to demand they are fresh though. They usually just try to give out the old stale ones. 

Outback used to be good way back in the day. I don’t know what happened but it turned to shit fast. 

I think I like Morton’s best of all the expensive chain steakhouses. Not a big fan of Ruth’s Chris or Capital Grille.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on June 18, 2020, 07:23:48 PM
Capital is easily the worst IMO.  I'd just as soon go to an Outback.  Ruth's and Morton's are both fine enough for a business dinner where I'm not paying.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 18, 2020, 07:27:30 PM
I like Morton's a little better than Ruth's Chris.  I like a local place called Jeffrey's quite a bit more than both, but it's also quite a bit more expensive than both-- it was George W Bush's favorite restaurant in Austin, for reference.

But I cook a steak as well as or better than all of them. And for quite bit less money.  Plus most of those places have way too much crappy California wine and not nearly enough delicious Bordeaux on their wine lists.  

So I cook delicious American steaks and drink delicious French wine at home, almost exclusively.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2020, 07:27:38 PM
Capital is easily the worst IMO.  I'd just as soon go to an Outback.  Ruth's and Morton's are both fine enough for a business dinner where I'm not paying.
I’d agree with this. Capital Grille is terrible because it’s honestly no better than Outback and 4x the price. Feel ripped off every time I’ve ever been there. 

Personally I’d rank them Morton-1, RC- 2, Capital-3. 

I went to a Longhorn near the Orlando airport not that long ago. I thought it was excellent for the price. It kicks the shit out of Outback- not that that’s hard to do- I’m surprised it’s not as well known or popular as Outback nationally- it’s significantly better and it’s at the same price point. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on June 18, 2020, 07:31:43 PM
I’d agree with this. Capital Grille is terrible because it’s honestly no better than Outback and 4x the price. Feel ripped off every time I’ve ever been there.

Personally I’d rank them Morton-1, RC- 2, Capital-3.

I went to a Longhorn near the Orlando airport not that long ago. I thought it was excellent for the price. It kicks the shit out of Outback- not that that’s hard to do- I’m surprised it’s not as well known or popular as Outback nationally- it’s significantly better and it’s at the same price point.
We went to Outback all the time when we were kids, simply because it was the best meal my parents could get that also had a kid's menu.  Once we weened off the kid's menu, we stopped going, it's so expensive for what it is.  The only time I've been in the last 20 years was when I won a $50 gift card in a raffle.  It still didn't come close to covering two meals.

I've never been to a Longhorn, but you aren't the first person to say that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2020, 07:32:31 PM
I like Morton's a little better than Ruth's Chris.  I like a local place called Jeffrey's quite a bit more than both, but it's also quite a bit more expensive than both-- it was George W Bush's favorite restaurant in Austin, for reference.

But I cook a steak as well as or better than all of them. And for quite bit less money.  Plus most of those places have way too much crappy California wine and not nearly enough delicious Bordeaux on their wine lists. 

So I cook delicious American steaks and drink delicious French wine at home, almost exclusively.
Don’t care what any Californian hippie jagoff says- the wine in France or Italy is waaaaaay better. 

You can buy cheap wines over there at grocery stores that blow the tits off any of the overpriced lighter fluid made in California. It’s incredible really.

California sucks imo. F**k that place.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2020, 08:02:21 PM
UF getting rid of Gator Bait chant because apparently it’s racist. 

God I hate this country sometimes. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on June 18, 2020, 08:06:44 PM
We had a Seattle client take us Midwest hicks to a Capital Grille one night.  I was like, really?  We all ordered seafood. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on June 18, 2020, 09:39:07 PM
Agree on Longhorn > Outback.  I like Morton’s, RC, and CG but we don’t have any of those in WV so it’s probably more of a treat to me than others.

The best local steak restaurant in my neck of the woods is probably Prime 44 at The Greenbrier Resort.  It’s a shrine to Jerry West who has a home there. Pretty cool place.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on June 18, 2020, 09:56:07 PM
UF getting rid of Gator Bait chant because apparently it’s racist.

God I hate this country sometimes.
Apparently it's the name?  So drop the name?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on June 18, 2020, 09:57:43 PM
My Athlon order showed up today.  Normally I'd be mad they screwed up and sent the UM cover, but instead I'm mad that it's as useless as the weekly circular
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on June 18, 2020, 09:59:38 PM
UF getting rid of Gator Bait chant because apparently it’s racist.

God I hate this country sometimes.
Lol. There are people who sit around actively searching for something that may offend them.  If they aren’t sure if it offends them they err on the side of taking offense just in case.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 18, 2020, 10:00:15 PM
Apparently it's the name?  So drop the name?
The name? "Gator?"  Or "bait?"

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2020, 10:16:05 PM
Lol. There are people who sit around actively searching for something that may offend them.  If they aren’t sure if it offends them they err on the side of taking offense just in case.
Tell me about it.

Mike Gundy about to lose his team and his job over a t-shirt he wore on a fishing trip.

I’d have told Chuba Hubbard to take his ass back to Canada and told everyone else to suck my ass if I was Mike Gundy.

We are living in the craziest times ever. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2020, 10:29:59 PM
Gundy was spot on about Twitter and social media and they might be his downfall. 

The guy absolutely nailed it here.

https://youtu.be/MSgqoCfY0Wc
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on June 18, 2020, 11:54:29 PM
The name? "Gator?"  Or "bait?"


Apparently it's that using slaves as literal gator bait was an interrogation tactic to find runaways?

I think I'm about as sympathetic as this board will find towards PCness, but that seems like a HUUUUUGE stretch.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 19, 2020, 12:56:55 AM
UF getting rid of Gator Bait chant because apparently it’s racist.

God I hate this country sometimes.
After listening to the chant ... it's crappy enough I can't bring myself to care. It seems like the kind of chant I would find neither memorable not interesting to chant. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 19, 2020, 12:58:27 AM
Tell me about it.

Mike Gundy about to lose his team and his job over a t-shirt he wore on a fishing trip.

I’d have told Chuba Hubbard to take his ass back to Canada and told everyone else to suck my ass if I was Mike Gundy.

We are living in the craziest times ever. 
The irony is that he had the easiest out in the world. 

"I planned to clean the fish in that shirt and just wanted something I could get crap all over."

Done and done. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on June 19, 2020, 01:14:49 AM
One of my Minnesota friends tells me some busybodies in Duluth want to remove the title of 'chief' from any related job in the city.    Nevermind the origin of the word chief has nothing to do with Indians, or Native Americans at all.  Old french (likely Latin) to describe a leader.   I'd love to hear what John McWhorter has to say about all of this lately.    When it comes to linguistics and really a lot of takes on society, he's a great voice/read.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 19, 2020, 02:22:59 AM
The irony is that he had the easiest out in the world.

"I planned to clean the fish in that shirt and just wanted something I could get crap all over."

Done and done.

The fact that it ever became a big deal blows my mind. He wasn't wearing a Nazi uniform. It was a damn t-shirt of a tv station. If he was wearing an MSNBC shirt- everything would've been cool then?

Chuba Hubbard should've been a god damn man with a sack and tried talking to Gundy in person or over the phone if he had a problem with Gundy wearing the t-shirt- instead of crybaby little internet twitter pussy. Lost what little respect that I had for Hubbard- until I found out the guy was Canadian- then I lost all respect for him. He can take his soft cupcake ass back to Canada for all I care.

Why do visitors in this country think they have the right to tell people in this country how to think or what t-shirts they can wear? Chuba Hubbard has zero idea what it's like to grow up in the US. He's from motherf###n CANADA. He's here on a student visa and he's been in the US for like 2 years.

Here's an idea- if you're a visitor in this country and not a citizen or permanent resident- then shut the f##k up about this country please. I'm not interested in your opinion and no one else in this country should be either. This little fruitcake needs to go back to Canada with Justin Bieber.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 19, 2020, 03:14:57 AM
UF getting rid of Gator Bait chant because apparently it’s racist.

God I hate this country sometimes.
Not a big thing.  It's a quickie thing the band plays when Florida is on defense.  
dunnnnnn dun dun da-da-dun, Gator Bait!  repeat.  repeat.

Meh.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 19, 2020, 06:55:17 AM
Apparently it's that using slaves as literal gator bait was an interrogation tactic to find runaways?

I think I'm about as sympathetic as this board will find towards PCness, but that seems like a HUUUUUGE stretch.
The problem with antiracism becoming more widespread is that you still have to deal with HOA types who are suddenly empowered with new things to make rules about.  If schools start looking through history to eliminate things that have racist history, you've got a lot of things to chop.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2020, 07:29:04 AM
I had never heard of "Juneteenth" before this year, and had no clue Gator Bait had bad connotations.

I could guess nearly everything may have bad connotations at some level, no?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 19, 2020, 09:07:58 AM
The irony is that he had the easiest out in the world.

"I planned to clean the fish in that shirt and just wanted something I could get crap all over."

Done and done.
Why should he lie?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 19, 2020, 09:15:02 AM
The problem with antiracism becoming more widespread is that you still have to deal with HOA types who are suddenly empowered with new things to make rules about.  If schools start looking through history to eliminate things that have racist history, you've got a lot of things to chop.
They'd probably start with math and science.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 19, 2020, 09:22:32 AM
Why should he lie?
Well the obvious answer might be-- to save his job.  But I hear what you're saying.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 19, 2020, 09:33:41 AM
Well the obvious answer might be-- to save his job.  But I hear what you're saying.
He had to lie to save his job, because he's a conservative. Think about this.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 19, 2020, 09:40:48 AM
I had never heard of "Juneteenth" before this year, and had no clue Gator Bait had bad connotations.

I could guess nearly everything may have bad connotations at some level, no?
It doesn’t have bad connotations. 

I just read that the Gator Bait chant was started by a black UF defensive player in the 80s, and his famous line was, “if you ain’t a gator, you gator bait!”. 

I am forgetting his name, but he’s pissed off about this. He said it’s ridiculous and he wants to talk to the school President about it and he wants them to unban it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 19, 2020, 09:42:31 AM
He had to lie to save his job, because he's a conservative. Think about this.
Oh I hear ya.  The intolerance of the "tolerant" is astonishing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 19, 2020, 09:44:30 AM
Juneteenth has always been a thing around here.  Lots of big celebrations, block parties, and the like.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 19, 2020, 09:51:37 AM
Why should he lie?
Because unvarnished honesty is almost never part of a coach's playbook and by nature coaches tend to make decisions that are either avoiding controversy of good for them long term (i.e. lean into part of controversy when there's gain to be made).

Coaches lie often and for various reasons (when they are asked in March how the QB battle is going, for example). At the moment, he's lying about being reformed because a lot of his players didn't like him, and when one spoke up, many joined in. He had a easy sidestep, and instead is dealing with a tougher one that has notably less gain. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 19, 2020, 09:57:33 AM
He had to lie to save his job, because he's a conservative. Think about this.
It’s insane. It boils my blood. This climate we are living in is the worst in modern history. You cannot give these people an inch. Period. You have to fight these pc pussies where they stand. 

Gundy shouldn’t have done shit. He should’ve dismissed Chuba Hubbard from the team for violation of team rules, and he should’ve told him to find a new school, and wish him good luck with the paperwork on transferring schools and getting a new student visa, asshole. 

The idea that Chuba Hubbard is some sort of social justice warrior hero is laughable. He’s an entitled dickwad dweeb from Canada that’s living in bumfu***k Oklahoma for the last two years going to college on a student visa, and he knows nothing of the way of life or the struggle of poor black Americans that grow up in the inner cities of Detroit or Chicago go through. Just listen to the cupcake talk. He’s not from that life. He knows nothing about it. Stop pretending. It reminds me of another lame Canadian- Drake- who although I like his music whenever he tries to act tough or hardcore or from the streets- it’s like shut the f up dude- that’s not you- that’s not where you’re from. You’re from the suburbs of Canada and you were a Nickelodeon actor as a teenager. This Chuba Dickwad fellow is no different.

I’ve barely heard of OAN before this entire ordeal, I have still never watched a 10 second clip of theirs let alone a news segment, and I could give a shit less about them to be honest.

The idea that wearing a t-shirt of a Cable news station on a fishing trip is somehow offensive and a crime against humanity and that you should have to apologize for it or risk losing your job is absolute lunacy. Lunacy. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 19, 2020, 09:57:41 AM
He had to lie to save his job, because he's a conservative. Think about this.
perhaps this will be the time the conservatives are pushed too far

take the country back, defund the liberals
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2020, 10:05:54 AM
Juneteenth has always been a thing around here.  Lots of big celebrations, block parties, and the like. 
Interesting.  We used to party on Cinco de quattro.  

Or whatever.  I don't recall ever hearing the term before, and now it's being suggested as a national holiday.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 19, 2020, 10:12:52 AM
never heard of it here in farm country
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 19, 2020, 10:13:55 AM
Are your average Americans eating cat, dog, and fried bugs on a stick like the Chinese? Or any of this shit:

https://listverse.com/2020/03/16/bizarre-chinese-food/amp/

Ya, didn’t think so. I’m kinda with badge, Chinese food sucks dirty ass in my not so humble opinion. Have zero desire to ever go to China. F**k that place.
"Average" Americans are considerably more rich than "average" Chinese. Our GDP is 50% higher than China's and our population is 1/4 the size. 

I'll admit that I don't know all the things that the poor rural Chinese eat. Some of it might turn my stomach. But that doesn't mean their entire cuisine is trash. Nor does it mean that the entire country is people in shanties scraping by on whatever food they can find.

I've been to Shanghai. Might as well have been New York or Chicago, with the breadth and quality of food I had access to. 
Don’t care what any Californian hippie jagoff says- the wine in France or Italy is waaaaaay better.

You can buy cheap wines over there at grocery stores that blow the tits off any of the overpriced lighter fluid made in California. It’s incredible really.

California sucks imo. F**k that place.
I'm sensing a theme here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2020, 10:16:48 AM
The wife in general prefers American wines, while I in general lean to French.  They both of course can be excellent (or mediocre to bad).

The styles are different, so called Old World Versus New, but a lot of French wines are migrating to the New World style now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 19, 2020, 10:19:37 AM

Gundy shouldn’t have done shit. He should’ve dismissed Chuba Hubbard from the team for violation of team rules, and he should’ve told him to find a new school, and wish him good luck with the paperwork on transferring schools and getting a new student visa, asshole.

He wants to continue to be a college football coach. Thus, he didn't do that. If he sends his best player packing like that, talent  dries up, and he gets to go down in flames. 

But man, it would've made some folks uninvolved feel so good in a way that's mostly meaningless, which strikes me as perhaps our biggest problem as a country. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 19, 2020, 10:20:48 AM
perhaps this will be the time the conservatives are pushed too far

take the country back, defund the liberals
This is one of our greatest myths, that no matter what, whichever side you're on is losing ground fast. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 19, 2020, 10:20:57 AM
Q: "Juneteenth? WTF is that? I've never even heard of it, and now they want to make it a holiday?"

A: "Hmm, what a surprise. The people who are not descendents of slaves don't care about celebrating the end of slavery." 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 19, 2020, 10:22:04 AM
JUST BECAUSE THEY’VE TURNED AGAINST HUMANITY DOESN’T MEAN WE SHOULD DEFUND THE TERMINATOR PROGRAM (https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/just-because-theyve-turned-against-humanity-doesnt-mean-we-should-defund-the-terminator-program)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 19, 2020, 10:22:45 AM
Q: "Juneteenth? WTF is that? I've never even heard of it, and now they want to make it a holiday?"

A: "Hmm, what a surprise. The people who are not descendents of slaves don't care about celebrating the end of slavery."
I'm all for making it a national holiday.  It should be IMO.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on June 19, 2020, 10:22:59 AM
Juneteenth has always been a thing around here.  Lots of big celebrations, block parties, and the like. 
It makes sense it would be a celebration in Texas... that is the entire theme, no? Freedom didn't reach Texas until June following the end of the war? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 19, 2020, 10:24:14 AM
JUST BECAUSE THEY’VE TURNED AGAINST HUMANITY DOESN’T MEAN WE SHOULD DEFUND THE TERMINATOR PROGRAM (https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/just-because-theyve-turned-against-humanity-doesnt-mean-we-should-defund-the-terminator-program)

was this a joke or are trying to tell us something

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 19, 2020, 10:25:24 AM
It makes sense it would be a celebration in Texas... that is the entire theme, no? Freedom didn't reach Texas until June following the end of the war?
Yes indeed.  It's listed as a "state holiday" but I don't know anyone that gets the day off.  Maybe state workers? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on June 19, 2020, 10:28:34 AM
take four people, armed to the teeth... one black... one white... a staunch liberal and conservative, and lock them in a room with nothing but a television....

Pump in news, it'll be a bloodbath.

Pump in college football, they'll emerge friends and with regard for each other. 

We focus far too much on what separates us.  There is more that binds us.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 19, 2020, 10:35:00 AM
I'm sensing a theme here.
Yes, the theme is China sucks and so does it’s evil communist dictatorship government. I know plenty of people who have been there on business, and they all swear that it’s terrible and hate it. I know someone that does business there and hates it there so much, says it’s so dirty and the food is so terrible- they refuse to go back- even though not going back actually hurts their business. Not to mention they’ve screwed this country and the people of this country over for almost 30 years and our government let’s them. No to mention the CCP covered up the coronavirus and caused it to spread worldwide. So yeah, f**k that place. They can suck a fat one. 

And California sucks. It’s overpopulated as hell, there are just way too many damn people. 40 million? Wtf. California has 27% of all the homeless population in the entire country, and homeless shanty towns have overrun LA and San Francisco- there are sections of those cities overrun by homeless people with needles and beer contains littered all throughout the streets. The property taxes and state income taxes are literally insane and the highest in the entire country. The beaches suck- the water is so cold you can’t even go in without a body suite. Then you have the Silicon Valley idiots at twitter, Facebook, and google that are literally destroying this society. Oh and the extremely overpaid dickwads who work at those companies have turned San Francisco from a once affordable city into a playground for rich Silicon Valley dickwads. San Francisco apartments the size of a shoebox now costs $6k a month. The housing prices are insane in the parts of the state where people actually live. Again the highest in the country. Oh and you guys don’t even have the hot Latin women. Hardly any Colombians, Brazilians, Cubans, Puerto Rican’s, or Argentinians there. Not to mention California has literally all of the lame celebrities living there who record themselves singing Imagine or record themselves acting like they are going to cry saying “I TAKE RESPONSIBILITY!” and then act like they are changing the world and we should thank them! It’s an OK place to visit I guess, but seriously f***k that place. It’s got to be one of the worst places to live in the US. I don’t understand why people chose to live there when they have other options. It’s a literal overpopulated shithole that’s run by complete idiots and psychopaths.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 19, 2020, 10:36:33 AM
I like California.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 19, 2020, 10:40:25 AM
I like California. 
I like California too as long as I dont have to live there
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 19, 2020, 10:41:18 AM
He wants to continue to be a college football coach. Thus, he didn't do that. If he sends his best player packing like that, talent  dries up, and he gets to go down in flames.

But man, it would've made some folks uninvolved feel so good in a way that's mostly meaningless, which strikes me as perhaps our biggest problem as a country.
You are missing the point, entirely. 

He should’ve stood up for what’s right. And he should’ve taught this phony lame entitled dickwad from Canada named Chuba Hubbard a lesson. 

The biggest problem in our country are the pc pussies who whine and moan on twitter and then get people to cave in and cater to them. You have to stand your ground and fight these pc pussies where they stand. 

Gundy should’ve done the right thing and dismissed Hubbard from the team for violation of team rules and said I am not apologizing for wearing a fucking t-shirt and you can all kiss my ass if you don’t like it. Even at the expense of his job. The fact that people feel like they can’t do this- is what is wrong with this country.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 19, 2020, 10:51:48 AM
was this a joke or are trying to tell us something
Yes, McSweeney's is a satire site. It was meant to be a joke... But as with a lot of jokes, there are some uncomfortable truths shown when you hold up the circus mirror of satire to a topic.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 19, 2020, 10:52:03 AM
You are missing the point, entirely.

He should’ve stood up for what’s right. And he should’ve taught this phony lame entitled dickwad from Canada named Chuba Hubbard a lesson.

The biggest problem in our country are the pc pussies who whine and moan on twitter and then get people to cave in and cater to them. You have to stand your ground and fight these pc pussies where they stand.

Gundy should’ve done the right thing and dismissed Hubbard from the team for violation of team rules and said I am not apologizing for wearing a fucking t-shirt and you can all kiss my ass if you don’t like it. Even at the expense of his job. The fact that people feel like they can’t do this- is what is wrong with this country.
A. Football teams are not the moral barometer of anything.
B. Talent getting to dictate terms is unfortunately real life. 
C. If what's wrong with this country is that you can't tell people to kiss your ass when you have a job representing an institution and not possibly face consequences, I dunno, that seems odd. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 19, 2020, 10:53:26 AM
I like California too as long as I dont have to live there
it's a nice place to visit
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 19, 2020, 10:54:07 AM
I like California too as long as I dont have to live there
The weirdest thing is how people act as if California or any state is some kind of monolith of a place.

I'm positive there's a part of Ca you'd enjoy living in (and a part of Texas you wouldn't).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on June 19, 2020, 10:55:02 AM
You are missing the point, entirely.

He should’ve stood up for what’s right. And he should’ve taught this phony lame entitled dickwad from Canada named Chuba Hubbard a lesson.

The biggest problem in our country are the pc pussies who whine and moan on twitter and then get people to cave in and cater to them. You have to stand your ground and fight these pc pussies where they stand.

Gundy should’ve done the right thing and dismissed Hubbard from the team for violation of team rules and said I am not apologizing for wearing a fucking t-shirt and you can all kiss my ass if you don’t like it. Even at the expense of his job. The fact that people feel like they can’t do this- is what is wrong with this country.
I think it’s easy to tell someone they should have stood up for themselves even at the expense of their job.  That’s an easy stand to make for someone else.

I don’t blame Gundy for caving to keep a 5 or 6 million dollar a year job (or whatever he makes). I blame him for being dumb enough to wear the shirt in the first place.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 19, 2020, 11:02:17 AM
Yes, McSweeney's is a satire site. It was meant to be a joke... But as with a lot of jokes, there are some uncomfortable truths shown when you hold up the circus mirror of satire to a topic.
and what truths are shown
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 19, 2020, 11:09:05 AM
The weirdest thing is how people act as if California or any state is some kind of monolith of a place.

I'm positive there's a part of Ca you'd enjoy living in (and a part of Texas you wouldn't).
Well, although MDot's critique largely was based on the LA/OC/SD and Bay Area megalopolises, the other point was that CA has high income taxes. He's somewhat incorrect that we have high property taxes, if you look at it on a percentage basis, but our property values in the megalopolises are so high that the real amount paid in property taxes can be high. 

However, even if you go to the rest of the state, where property values aren't so high, and where he might enjoy living, the income taxes are still nuts. And while salaries here tend to be higher than other places (due to cost of living), that also means that you get caught in both higher state income tax brackets and higher federal income tax brackets. 

I.e. for a certain standard of living in say Orange County or the Bay Area, compared to say Austin, I not only have to make enough extra money to pay for the high cost of living, but also make more money to pay state taxes, and because I'm making more money, I have to make EVEN MORE money to pay for the extra federal taxes I'll incur because of the cost of living. 

I think I want to move to Austin or to the Denver area, honestly. Within my company if I transferred locations my pay wouldn't change, which means my standard of living would go up significantly. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 19, 2020, 11:17:00 AM
and what truths are shown
That some of the excuses we make for behavior, or half-assed attempts we make to curtail that behavior, are ridiculous if you take out the context of "police" and apply it elsewhere. 

Obviously, police aren't Terminators. But meaningful reform is necessary at a systemic level, and most of our discussions about it are playing around at the margins. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 19, 2020, 11:20:47 AM
Well, although MDot's critique largely was based on the LA/OC/SD and Bay Area megalopolises, the other point was that CA has high income taxes. He's somewhat incorrect that we have high property taxes, if you look at it on a percentage basis, but our property values in the megalopolises are so high that the real amount paid in property taxes can be high.

However, even if you go to the rest of the state, where property values aren't so high, and where he might enjoy living, the income taxes are still nuts. And while salaries here tend to be higher than other places (due to cost of living), that also means that you get caught in both higher state income tax brackets and higher federal income tax brackets.

I.e. for a certain standard of living in say Orange County or the Bay Area, compared to say Austin, I not only have to make enough extra money to pay for the high cost of living, but also make more money to pay state taxes, and because I'm making more money, I have to make EVEN MORE money to pay for the extra federal taxes I'll incur because of the cost of living.

I think I want to move to Austin or to the Denver area, honestly. Within my company if I transferred locations my pay wouldn't change, which means my standard of living would go up significantly.
Nope, Austin's all full up.

Denver is super-nice though! :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 19, 2020, 11:22:57 AM

I think I want to move to Austin or to the Denver area, honestly. Within my company if I transferred locations my pay wouldn't change, which means my standard of living would go up significantly.
Austin - utee will throw you a Beef BBQ and treat to Tito's and Live Oak - do it man.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 19, 2020, 11:25:00 AM
I think it’s easy to tell someone they should have stood up for themselves even at the expense of their job.  That’s an easy stand to make for someone else.

I don’t blame Gundy for caving to keep a 5 or 6 million dollar a year job (or whatever he makes). I blame him for being dumb enough to wear the shirt in the first place.
True. It's a tough call. He's been making millions of dollars a year for well over a decade. So if he's saved his money or invested it at all, he should be more then well off. But you're right- it's a tough call and you're right I'm just venting. I have no idea what I'd do in that same situation. Easier said than done.

The fact that the guy could've lost his job for wearing a damn t-shirt on a private fishing trip is absolutely insane in the first place though. INSANE. He didn't post the pic to Facebook, I think his sons friend did.

And it wasn't a confederate t-shirt or a Nazi symbol or something overtly racist or obscene. It was a t-shirt of a god damn cable news tv station that someone from that network problem gave to him. And he wore it on a fishing trip- not at a public team function or press conference. A fishing trip.

Is OAN televising Nazi rallies or crazy shit? Asking for real, I've never watched it. If it's just another Fox News wannabe- what is the big F'ing deal that he wore this t-shirt? I don't get it. Honestly.

This shit is just insane. And the little motherf***ker who blasted his coach on twitter for wearing a stupid t-shirt isn't even from this country- he's from Canada. I looked up exactly where he's from. It's a nice cozy, cushy safe suburb of Canada. This little twitter warrior prick has no idea what it's like to be black poor and grow up in Detroit or Chicago or any decaying inner city in America. You think people from those neighborhoods honestly give two shits about a t-shirt that someone wears while on a fishing trip?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 19, 2020, 11:33:14 AM
That some of the excuses we make for behavior, or half-assed attempts we make to curtail that behavior, are ridiculous if you take out the context of "police" and apply it elsewhere.

Obviously, police aren't Terminators. But meaningful reform is necessary at a systemic level, and most of our discussions about it are playing around at the margins.
Im not sure reform is what BLM wants

It looks like they want replacement
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on June 19, 2020, 11:37:01 AM
That some of the excuses we make for behavior, or half-assed attempts we make to curtail that behavior, are ridiculous if you take out the context of "police" and apply it elsewhere.

Obviously, police aren't Terminators. But meaningful reform is necessary at a systemic level, and most of our discussions about it are playing around at the margins.
It’s not that I don’t agree to a certain extent. Any degree of better is better.  But the police have millions of personal encounters with the public each year and a fraction of them go sideways.  If we can reduce that number through reform or enhanced training then I am all for it.

It just seems like cops are getting painted with a pretty broad brush and that  piece of satire you posted doesn’t help.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 19, 2020, 11:41:03 AM
Im not sure reform is what BLM wants

It looks like they want replacement
it's not just BLM, it's this entire cancel culture that has been brewing in this country for the past- I don't know how many years. 7-8? Ever since Twitter or Facebook started maybe?

People think that if they don't like what you say, they can get a twitter mob to attack you and then cancel you or make you lose your job. And now it's getting the point where you can't even wear a t-shirt on a fishing trip without being in danger of losing your livelihood. It's absolutely mind-blowing. Maybe it's been happening forever, and we are just made more aware of it because of social media. I don't know- but it's got to change, and fast. Every person in this country needs to watch this as many times as it takes for them to understand the message:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydtEp2xTeJs
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 19, 2020, 11:56:54 AM
It’s not that I don’t agree to a certain extent. Any degree of better is better.  But the police have millions of personal encounters with the public each year and a fraction of them go sideways.  If we can reduce that number through reform or enhanced training then I am all for it.

It just seems like cops are getting painted with a pretty broad brush and that  piece of satire you posted doesn’t help.

The issue is that the police are largely accountability-free. The point is when those encounters go sideways and the police do something they shouldn't do, rarely can anyone take action. That's the reform we need.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on June 19, 2020, 11:59:37 AM
The issue is that the police are largely accountability-free. The point is when those encounters go sideways and the police do something they shouldn't do, rarely can anyone take action. That's the reform we need.
Do you mean lawsuits against the individual cops?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 19, 2020, 12:00:35 PM
Do you mean lawsuits against the individual cops?
I think he means jail time. But I'll let him speak on that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 19, 2020, 12:03:12 PM
The fact that the guy could've lost his job for wearing a damn t-shirt on a private fishing trip is absolutely insane in the first place though. INSANE. He didn't post the pic to Facebook, I think his sons friend did.

And it wasn't a confederate t-shirt or a Nazi symbol or something overtly racist or obscene. It was a t-shirt of a god damn cable news tv station that someone from that network problem gave to him. And he wore it on a fishing trip- not at a public team function or press conference. A fishing trip.
true, but high school recruits and current college players are told to watch what they do and say that might end up on social media by coaches.  not at a team function or press conference.

IMO, the head coach should be held to a higher standard than a high school recruit.  Practice what you preach.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 19, 2020, 12:04:27 PM
The issue is that the police are largely accountability-free. The point is when those encounters go sideways and the police do something they shouldn't do, rarely can anyone take action. That's the reform we need.
Absolutely. It's the entire culture that is screwed up and needs changing.

But unfortunately I think this whole anti-police thing has gone in the wrong direction. I was a victim of police brutality- but another police officer also literally saved the life of a family member of mine. They are not all bad, even if the culture is kinda screwed up and needs fixing.

Overall, I am pro-police. It's a tough shitty job, and we need police officers. Someone has to do it. I'm for reform, not for getting rid of all police officers. Some of the shit people are proposing is just stupid. We need police officers. The same people who say they want to see what this society would look like without them would be the first ones to call them when they are in danger.

I was all for the protests at the beginning and calling for reform, but I feel like it's just gotten out of hand at this point.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on June 19, 2020, 12:12:22 PM
Aside from the police being the "target" of that quote.... it seems more reasonable to me the message is "we're our own worst enemy"... why? Because the police ARE us, they weren't delivered from some galaxy far far away... the mobs? Thats us too.. OAN.. more us... 

Et al, it is "we". 

Placing your value of opinion above others is where the trouble starts.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on June 19, 2020, 12:13:47 PM
@Drew4UTk (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1) african mahogany with buffalo hide for the cover.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 19, 2020, 12:25:36 PM
Aside from the police being the "target" of that quote.... it seems more reasonable to me the message is "we're our own worst enemy"... why? Because the police ARE us, they weren't delivered from some galaxy far far away... the mobs? Thats us too.. OAN.. more us...

Et al, it is "we".

Placing your value of opinion above others is where the trouble starts. 
Thats kinda what Ive been saying

The police are a reflection of the community leaders

If the police have no accountability its not the fault of the police

The police are order takers and policy followers

How many police departments in this country have black mayors and largely black city councilmen 

I am so tired of seeing police being accused of racist actions when their bosses are black

if you have hired racists to police your community do something about it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 19, 2020, 12:36:09 PM

The fact that the guy could've lost his job for wearing a damn t-shirt on a private fishing trip is absolutely insane in the first place though. INSANE. He didn't post the pic to Facebook, I think his sons friend did.


So I think this is sort of the crux on a couple levels.

The T-shirt itself is not so much the issue. And the Twitter mob isn't either. It's the player reaction. Even if Hubbard had come out alone, it's not that much of a thing. But Hubbard came out, and suddenly a lot of other players did too. And that tells us that Gundy was doing something that ended up making people not like him, and this was a tipping point of sorts.

Now we can argue around if not being liked should cost you a job. But if the boosters don't like you, a bad season is more likely to cost. And if you're in a position where the players don't like you, and you need potential players to like you to build good teams, things could become untenable.

Shoot, huge chunks of that profession are good ole boys. But they have to charm young people of color. And if t do something that might strongly create problems there, it would hurt them, possibly to the point of dismissal. There's an interesting example in Dabo Swinney. He got in some hot water, but people around him backed him to the gills, and that tells us something. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on June 19, 2020, 12:38:36 PM
@Drew4UTk (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1) african mahogany with buffalo hide for the cover.
Aye.... it is beautiful work.  There are at least three species referred to as "African mahogany"... one of which is Sapele, which that desk is not.  I would have spotted it instantly.  Of the three called African mahogany Sapele is the first to be discredited as such... i think those trees grow in such abundance and are so freaking large the name was given in effort to market them.  The wood itself has a translucent quality and refracts like a gemstone- there is a name for this characteristic that has escaped me... i really like working with Sapele... the clock i posted is predominately such... as is most the cutting boards predominate material.  On the janga scale, sapele is around 1800 (most species of oak, for reference, are in the 1100-1200 range, and hickory and pecan which there is little distinguished difference, is around 1700)... its pretty tough stuff and carves well for that reason, even if a little hard on my tools.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 19, 2020, 01:15:29 PM
It’s not that I don’t agree to a certain extent. Any degree of better is better.  But the police have millions of personal encounters with the public each year and a fraction of them go sideways.  If we can reduce that number through reform or enhanced training then I am all for it.

It just seems like cops are getting painted with a pretty broad brush and that  piece of satire you posted doesn’t help.

To a degree they are, but there are certain cultural problems that are to a degree normalized. 

Let's put it this way, cops are, in a small theater, enormously powerful and usually given a wide benefit of the doubt. And when given a broad latitude to cut corners or do something uncouth, a lotta folks do. 

I'll share a few examples, one kinda more egregious, one more subtle.

The first is two friends of a friend who were a couple and both cops. They arrest a guy who pretty clearly assaulted an older woman (I think it was a relative). Did something pretty despicable. And they were so disgusted, they tuned him up. They harmed him because they knew he did this horrible thing. 

On one hand, it's understandable. On the other hand, they violated his rights, committed criminal acts and undercut the very system which they are charged to uphold. They won't get sued. Maybe they'll get a complaint filed that'll probably be sealed. But in that act, they erode away the authority they hold.

Another story. 

I was watching a documentary about militarized police, and the film crew was allowed to tape a SWAT raid in my own town. And one guy was really jazzed to use a tool that has a hammer head on a pivot. You go up to a wall, swing, the handle hits the wall, the hammer rotates through and breaks a window. It's used to distract before busting in

They use that, bust into the house, scare the family, find the suspect. Find the smallest bits of pot at the bottom of a backpack. Arrest the kid. Older man says "That's our window." SWAT member, "It was a distraction tactic." Guy in house "That's my effing window." Cops told the shaken family something like "I guess you shouldn't have housed a drug dealer." Come back the next day, family is sifting through the damaged house.

That kind of thing has a cost, financial, time, etc. It has an impact. And I think at times, that's not recognized. 

I kind of come to this point. I respect the way that job will wear away empathy. And that's a real issue. Because whenever a cop is in one of those many interactions, they put the other person at a decided power disadvantage. And people by and large do not like that. So my assumption is that while most interactions don't go sideways, they do have a natural level of testiness that I think cops need to be aware of in their actions. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2020, 01:20:19 PM
We were at Costco this AM, the place was packed.  I usually avoid Friday but I thought it would be OK (it was OK).

Premium gas was $2.04/gal.

They had plenty of beef, but had limits on purchases.  Everyone was masked.  No food samples of course.  Steelhead trout was $7/lb.  I bought some stock on back even though my adviser told me it was over priced.  Ha.

When I find a company that seems to be extremely well run, I buy it, or look hard at buying it.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 19, 2020, 01:22:47 PM
Do you mean lawsuits against the individual cops?
Yes, that's part of it. One method of accountability is individual civil liability for violating a citizen's Constitutional rights, and qualified immunity coupled with local police departments indemnifying officers from the financial burden of the lawsuits/settlements rather than requiring them to carry liability insurance for their actions.

Two actions that would make a difference:


Making those two changes would be much more useful than a database of officer complaints, or "better training" (which isn't enforced in the streets), etc. 

I think he means jail time. But I'll let him speak on that.
It's this too. Quite often you see issues of police brutality which are crimes by the officer, and the DA declines to prosecute. And even when officers are disciplined without prosecution, the police unions make it nearly impossible to actually punish them in any meaningful way. 

As I've said elsewhere, this is a harder one for structural reasons--public sector unions in general and police unions in particular are very powerful, especially in local elections and local politics. A district attorney (usually an elected official) or a mayor who acts counter to the police unions' wishes will usually find those unions backing someone else once the next election rolls around. 

But yes, when police are actually committing criminal acts, they should be prosecuted. We should be holding them to a higher standard than the public given the responsibilities and power they are afforded, not a lower standard.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 19, 2020, 01:24:14 PM


The police are order takers and policy followers


If that's the case, this should be easy. 

But I fear it is more complex and will not be so easy. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2020, 01:28:14 PM
I know I got very jaded at work, not that anyone else cared of course.  I was worn out and demotivated by 15 years.  

I'd imagine the things you see as an LEO makes you jaded in 3 years or so.  Maybe you have good intentions still, but you develop "instincts" and reactions to certain stimuli, like the color of a person's skin.  Maybe you lose your temper out of frustration.

Can this be countered by training?  Probably somewhat.  Accountability?  Somewhat.

I've chatted with some Marines who were in Iraq who said after 6 months, they were on a hair trigger and were getting borderline in terms of opening up on MOMAs just because they looked bad.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 19, 2020, 01:30:11 PM
I know I got very jaded at work, not that anyone else cared of course.  I was worn out and demotivated by 15 years. 

I'd imagine the things you see as an LEO makes you jaded in 3 years or so.  Maybe you have good intentions still, but you develop "instincts" and reactions to certain stimuli, like the color of a person's skin.  Maybe you lose your temper out of frustration.

Can this be countered by training?  Probably somewhat.  Accountability?  Somewhat.

I've chatted with some Marines who were in Iraq who said after 6 months, they were on a hair trigger and were getting borderline in terms of opening up on MOMAs just because they looked bad.


Museums of modern art?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2020, 01:32:00 PM
MOMA = Male of Military Age.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 19, 2020, 01:32:47 PM
Thats kinda what Ive been saying

The police are a reflection of the community leaders

If the police have no accountability its not the fault of the police

The police are order takers and policy followers

How many police departments in this country have black mayors and largely black city councilmen

I am so tired of seeing police being accused of racist actions when their bosses are black

if you have hired racists to police your community do something about it
The police fund the police unions. The police unions fund the elected officials' campaigns which are supposed to oversee the police. So the elected officials don't mess with the police and don't enforce any accountability.

That's the point. The system is captured by the very folks who we are trying to hold accountable, such that we cannot effectively counter the political power that protects an unjust system.

Why doesn't the black mayor rein in the cops? Because when standing up for your ideal means losing your job--sometimes you make the political calculation to not rock the boat. Especially when you realize that most of these elected officials believe they're doing good (or they wouldn't have sought the job) and anyone else would be worse in the job, so they rationalize that the good they do elsewhere excuses them from standing up to the cops and the police union.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 19, 2020, 01:37:18 PM
The police fund the police unions. The police unions fund the elected officials' campaigns which are supposed to oversee the police. So the elected officials don't mess with the police and don't enforce any accountability.

That's the point. The system is captured by the very folks who we are trying to hold accountable, such that we cannot effectively counter the political power that protects an unjust system.

Why doesn't the black mayor rein in the cops? Because when standing up for your ideal means losing your job--sometimes you make the political calculation to not rock the boat. Especially when you realize that most of these elected officials believe they're doing good (or they wouldn't have sought the job) and anyone else would be worse in the job, so they rationalize that the good they do elsewhere excuses them from standing up to the cops and the police union.


two points

get rid of police unions

the elected community leaders need to grow a pair
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 19, 2020, 01:37:54 PM
true, but high school recruits and current college players are told to watch what they do and say that might end up on social media by coaches.  not at a team function or press conference.

IMO, the head coach should be held to a higher standard than a high school recruit.  Practice what you preach.

Yeah, sort-of, but not exactly.

Like I stated earlier, we're free to say what we want in this country, and that doesn't mean we're free from the reactions, and repercussions of what we say.

However, if the network on his t-shirt is as y'all have described, then effectively he's being called out and censured for being a Trump supporter.  That's it.  He supports the current president of the United States of America, a duly elected official, and this is enough for him to be censured and risk jeopardizing his team and/or his job  That's really pretty remarkable, to be honest.

With the kids, the advice is usually asking them to NOT make racist statements, to not curse or swear, to not exhibit or encourage underage drinking or drug use, those types of things. 

That's not what this is, at all.

Even so, Gundy should probably understand the viewpoints of his team well enough to know that being a Trump supporter is going to be an unpopular view.  That much, at least, is on him.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 19, 2020, 01:44:08 PM
two points

get rid of police unions

the elected community leaders need to grow a pair
Sure sounds simple when you put it that way...

How realistic do you think either of those solutions are? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 19, 2020, 02:00:30 PM
Why do unions seem unable to protect the good and ditch the bad?  It's just self-inflicted wounds.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 19, 2020, 02:01:07 PM
Sure sounds simple when you put it that way...

How realistic do you think either of those solutions are?

by congress passing a law outlawing police unions and elect better leaders
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 19, 2020, 02:01:40 PM
Why do unions seem unable to protect the good and ditch the bad?  It's just self-inflicted wounds. 
all about money
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 19, 2020, 02:06:01 PM
I went to a pool party yesterday for a friend's birthday.  We had 8 people, it was nice.  She only invited people who've been careful, however she measures that, lol.

Been getting a lot of antsy customers.  It says orders will take about 3 weeks on a banner on the site, and I have a guy asking me about his order after 9 days.  

Do I complain to much about this stuff?  Meh.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 19, 2020, 02:07:47 PM
I'm sure pro-union, I feel that they're essential.  Why?  Because in a right-to-work state like AZ, where we can't really have a union with any influence, it took a 70,000-teacher march to get a raise.
Wouldn't it just have been better for a few union leaders to negotiate it instead?  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 19, 2020, 02:10:27 PM
by congress passing a law outlawing police unions and elect better leaders
Man... You'd better watch out. Weed is illegal in Texas, and clearly you're smoking some good sh!t if you think either of those things will happen. 

Congress probably won't even manage to pass the bill to end qualified immunity. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 19, 2020, 02:14:27 PM
I mean, the Democrats won't dare touch police unions because Democrats are pro-union, and Republicans won't dare touch the police unions because they won't do anything to appear anti-cop or "soft on crime". 

So asking Congress to ban police unions will NEVER happen. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 19, 2020, 02:39:37 PM
I'm sure pro-union, I feel that they're essential.  Why?  Because in a right-to-work state like AZ, where we can't really have a union with any influence, it took a 70,000-teacher march to get a raise.
Wouldn't it just have been better for a few union leaders to negotiate it instead? 
I grew up in a union family and am very much for them except in the public sector 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 19, 2020, 02:45:26 PM
I mean, the Democrats won't dare touch police unions because Democrats are pro-union, and Republicans won't dare touch the police unions because they won't do anything to appear anti-cop or "soft on crime".

So asking Congress to ban police unions will NEVER happen.

well there you have it in those magic words the Dems wont be for it

The dems will have to give in a little for any real change to happen
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 19, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
well there you have it in those magic words the Dems wont be for it

The dems will have to give in a little for any real change to happen
And yet the tangible bill before the House right now, the "End Qualified Immunity Act"? 

61 cosponsors. 60 of them are Democrats. 1 of them is a Republican, Tom McClintock of CA. (Amash, the sponsor, is a former Republican turned Libertarian).

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/7085/cosponsors?searchResultViewType=expanded (https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/7085/cosponsors?searchResultViewType=expanded)

Why aren't the Republicans giving in a little for a real change to happen? 

We've all talked about ending qualified immunity in this thread. Many of you (who are Republican) agreed that it's a messed up policy and should be ended. 

If you're living in a district represented by a Republican, what pressure are you going to put on your Congresscritter to get them to add their names to the cosponsor list of this bill and make it bipartisan?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 19, 2020, 02:56:00 PM
And yet the tangible bill before the House right now, the "End Qualified Immunity Act"?

61 cosponsors. 60 of them are Democrats. 1 of them is a Republican, Tom McClintock of CA. (Amash, the sponsor, is a former Republican turned Libertarian).

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/7085/cosponsors?searchResultViewType=expanded (https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/7085/cosponsors?searchResultViewType=expanded)

Why aren't the Republicans giving in a little for a real change to happen?

We've all talked about ending qualified immunity in this thread. Many of you (who are Republican) agreed that it's a messed up policy and should be ended.

If you're living in a district represented by a Republican, what pressure are you going to put on your Congresscritter to get them to add their names to the cosponsor list of this bill and make it bipartisan?
not me Im against it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 19, 2020, 03:08:18 PM
not me Im against it
You're for ending police unions but against rescinding qualified immunity? 

Are you serious, or are you just trolling me at this point?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 19, 2020, 03:17:39 PM
You're for ending police unions but against rescinding qualified immunity?

Are you serious, or are you just trolling me at this point?
Im against public unions cause the people negotiating for the government have no skin in the game and therefore little incentive to hold wages and benefits to an acceptable level plus this gets worse if the union contributes to their campaign

Im for qualified immunity as the best way to avoid frivolous law suits I might be for some changes in the law but not for completely doing away with it

the officer put my handcuffs on too tight Id like $1,000 for my discomfort
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2020, 03:24:52 PM
One issue with doing away with QI is how LEOs will respond, which is predictable.  Are we going to pay them more to compensate?  They would have to carry liability insurance in effect.  An OB/GYN may pay $150 K a year for insurance.

I think the controlling PD will have to pay for it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 19, 2020, 03:30:06 PM

the officer put my handcuffs on too tight Id like $1,000 for my discomfort
Out of curiosity, what's the cutoff for that standard. Like if I'm cuffed and they slam my head on the doorframe, that's probably  over the line?


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on June 19, 2020, 03:37:07 PM
One issue with doing away with QI is how LEOs will respond, which is predictable.  Are we going to pay them more to compensate?  They would have to carry liability insurance in effect.  An OB/GYN may pay $150 K a year for insurance.

I think the controlling PD will have to pay for it.
Yeah, QI is a tough one. There is obviously some flaws in it that should be addressed but doing away with it entirely and forcing officers to carry their own liability insurance makes an already tough job even tougher and less attractive to potential applicants.

If that happens you may have to hire less qualified and competent people which could lead to more bad outcomes with the public instead of less.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 19, 2020, 03:45:49 PM
I too have mixed feelings.  I have followed the case law a little since this became a hot topic. 

It seems that it has been easily used as a defense and the courts have made it especially difficult to overcome without an exact match of prior case law- which of course is a circle( jerk).  

On the other hand- it seems if it is eliminated entirely it would not achieve the desired effect of holding individuals financially responsible as all it would do is drive another unwieldy system like our health system. 

Maybe some changes......?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 19, 2020, 04:08:55 PM
Im against public unions cause the people negotiating for the government have no skin in the game and therefore little incentive to hold wages and benefits to an acceptable level plus this gets worse if the union contributes to their campaign

Im for qualified immunity as the best way to avoid frivolous law suits I might be for some changes in the law but not for completely doing away with it

the officer put my handcuffs on too tight Id like $1,000 for my discomfort
You can file that frivolous lawsuit TODAY if you want. You just file it against the police department instead of the officer. The department has no immunity. 

The reason you don't see a lot of those lawsuits isn't because of qualified immunity... It's because there's such a small chance of success that no lawyer wants to waste their time on it. 

BTW I would highlight that qualified immunity was never written into the law by Congress... It was created out of whole cloth by the Supreme Court, based upon a law from 1871 but they didn't invent qualified immunity until 1967, and the current extremely restrictive adjudication of it wasn't established until 1982. 

So getting rid of qualified immunity is just sticking it to those damn activist judges!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 19, 2020, 04:16:23 PM
One issue with doing away with QI is how LEOs will respond, which is predictable.  Are we going to pay them more to compensate?  They would have to carry liability insurance in effect.  An OB/GYN may pay $150 K a year for insurance.

I think the controlling PD will have to pay for it.
Yes, I would assume in many cases you would grant them an additional stipend on top of their pay for the liability insurance. 

In 2018, the NYPD paid out over $300M in lawsuit damages... If they spread that equally amongst officers, it would give every officer $10K annually as an insurance allowance. 

I don't know who's paying $150K/annually for malpractice insurance. This article (https://howmuch.net/costs/medical-malpractice-insurance (https://howmuch.net/costs/medical-malpractice-insurance)) suggests that the average for doctors is around $7,500 annually. Certain specialties carry higher sums, of course (article says for surgeons it can be $30K-50K per year). 

If you make the controlling PD pay for it directly, then you end up with the exact same problem--you think the union will let the PD fire an policeman because his premiums are too high? 

But if the PD pays a stipend and then each officer is responsible for their own insurance, the good officers might find themselves pocketing a little extra cash each month because their premiums are lower than their stipend, while the bad officers will get priced right out of a job. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 19, 2020, 04:37:48 PM
I don't think it matters, a majority of the population being victimized by the police aren't getting a lawyer because they don't have a checking account, much less actual money.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 19, 2020, 04:58:07 PM
I don't think it matters, a majority of the population being victimized by the police aren't getting a lawyer because they don't have a checking account, much less actual money.
I’m not sure this is accurate. 

Police are equal opportunity brutalizers. 

I think this country needs to 3 things immediately and I’m shocked any of these were ever allowed to fly in this country: 

- End the stupid “war on drugs” 
- End civil asset forfeiture 
- End no knock warrants 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 19, 2020, 05:00:47 PM
I don't think it matters, a majority of the population being victimized by the police aren't getting a lawyer because they don't have a checking account, much less actual money.
Oh- I think they seem to come up with many talented volunteers- often stepping on each other for the chance- to represent them.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 19, 2020, 05:16:06 PM
One of the bigger problems with American criminal justice is the cops and prosecutors and judges experience no financial repercussion for their actions. It becomes easy to do the harshest to people. Sentencing someone to 70 years in prison is easier when someone else foots the bill.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 19, 2020, 05:23:30 PM
I’m not sure this is accurate.

Police are equal opportunity brutalizers.

I'm not sure it's inaccurate, though, at least to a quite statistically significant level. 

When you're a bully, you don't go after the people who look like they could fight back. You don't go after the clean-cut guy who looks like he's got a half-dozen lawyers as friends, or might be a lawyer himself -- i.e. guys who look like me.

You might err and see a dude that is otherwise white and middle-aged and has long hair and is wearing a Metallica t-shirt and rough him up, not realizing he's actually a surgeon and his wife is a civil rights lawyer and he'll take your ass to the cleaners. 

I think bad cops--bullies--are going to "punch down" a hell of a lot more often than they punch up. 


Quote
I think this country needs to 3 things immediately and I’m shocked any of these were ever allowed to fly in this country: 

- End the stupid “war on drugs” 
- End civil asset forfeiture 
- End no knock warrants 

Agree 100%. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2020, 05:28:25 PM
The AMA report shows that obstetricians can expect to pay around $150,000 in annual premiums for malpractice insurance. If your speciality requires fewer actual procedures, you can likely get by in the neighborhood of $30,000 to $50,000.May 14, 2018


 (https://www.leveragerx.com/blog/medical-malpractice-insurance-cost/#:~:text=The AMA report shows that,neighborhood of %2430%2C000 to %2450%2C000.)
How Much Does Medical Malpractice Insurance Cost in 2020 ...


https://equotemd.com/blog/obgyn-medical-malpractice-insurance/ (https://equotemd.com/blog/obgyn-medical-malpractice-insurance/)

As per the last year statistics, Obstetricians and gynecologists have been the ones who paid the highest rates, ranging from $85,000 to as much as $200,000.  A doctor in internal medicine is also expected to pay over $20,000 per year.
 (https://www.leveragerx.com/blog/medical-malpractice-insurance-cost/#:~:text=The AMA report shows that,neighborhood of %2430%2C000 to %2450%2C000.)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 19, 2020, 05:31:03 PM
The AMA report shows that obstetricians can expect to pay around $150,000 in annual premiums for malpractice insurance. If your speciality requires fewer actual procedures, you can likely get by in the neighborhood of $30,000 to $50,000.May 14, 2018


 (https://www.leveragerx.com/blog/medical-malpractice-insurance-cost/#:~:text=The AMA report shows that,neighborhood of %2430%2C000 to %2450%2C000.)
How Much Does Medical Malpractice Insurance Cost in 2020 ...
 (https://www.leveragerx.com/blog/medical-malpractice-insurance-cost/#:~:text=The AMA report shows that,neighborhood of %2430%2C000 to %2450%2C000.)


Is anyone of the opinion that this makes the health care system more economic or efficient for consumers?  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2020, 05:37:07 PM
My friend in Boston who is an OB/GYM said he pays 6 figures, but then he says "Well actually my patients pay it."

An LEO wouldn't pay anywhere near that, but he'd likely have to pay something fairly substantial relative to his salary.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 19, 2020, 05:39:51 PM
Man... You'd better watch out. Weed is illegal in Texas, and clearly you're smoking some good sh!t if you think either of those things will happen.

Congress probably won't even manage to pass the bill to end qualified immunity.
And they shouldn't. If qualified immunity is ended, you can say goodbye to police. To many lawyers will be waiting to sue any and every officer they can whenever someone arrested, detained or even looked at cross eyed by an officer wants to make a case. 

Qualified immunity is not the problem. Police unions protecting the bad cops is where the focus needs to be. You take away the immunity, ALL cops will suffer and no one will be willing to put on the uniform. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 19, 2020, 05:46:33 PM
The AMA report shows that obstetricians can expect to pay around $150,000 in annual premiums for malpractice insurance. If your speciality requires fewer actual procedures, you can likely get by in the neighborhood of $30,000 to $50,000.May 14, 2018


 (https://www.leveragerx.com/blog/medical-malpractice-insurance-cost/#:~:text=The AMA report shows that,neighborhood of %2430%2C000 to %2450%2C000.)
How Much Does Medical Malpractice Insurance Cost in 2020 ...


https://equotemd.com/blog/obgyn-medical-malpractice-insurance/ (https://equotemd.com/blog/obgyn-medical-malpractice-insurance/)

As per the last year statistics, Obstetricians and gynecologists have been the ones who paid the highest rates, ranging from $85,000 to as much as $200,000.  A doctor in internal medicine is also expected to pay over $20,000 per year.
 (https://www.leveragerx.com/blog/medical-malpractice-insurance-cost/#:~:text=The AMA report shows that,neighborhood of %2430%2C000 to %2450%2C000.)


Thank you. I had no idea that OB/GYN was so high. Although that in particular suggests why they're so high--essentially they are liable to be sued for up to 21 years after they deliver a baby for anything that might have gone wrong with that pregnancy or delivery. 

However, pulling out the absolute top of the curve would be called "cherry-picking" in argumentative terms... A general practitioner wouldn't be subject to such high rates. 

There are fewer "specialists" in the police world, as well. Although you might see something along the lines that a SWAT officer, who is enforcing no-knock warrants on suspected drug dealers, might have a higher premium than an ordinary beat cop. And a beat cop might have a higher premium than a detective or investigator who is very rarely interacting with street criminals or making arrests. 

But I don't think we have evidence that the liability insurance for a beat cop would be $150K/year. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 19, 2020, 05:46:51 PM
Is anyone of the opinion that this makes the health care system more economic or efficient for consumers? 
I haven't really looked at it for some time now, but when my wife was pregnant with our son 25 yrs ago, I had a discussion with the doctor and he stated then that his malpractice insurance was in the 6 figure range. I can't image what it is now.

And yes, that is one of the major problems with our HC system in this country. You get the lawyers out of it, you probably cut costs at least in half. I know it's not that simple, but lawsuits account for a major portion of the cost of HC in this country. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 19, 2020, 05:47:47 PM
My friend in Boston who is an OB/GYM said he pays 6 figures, but then he says "Well actually my patients pay it."

An LEO wouldn't pay anywhere near that, but he'd likely have to pay something fairly substantial relative to his salary.


They may not start out paying that much, but as the lawsuits start rolling in, I'm sure it would begin to approach that figure. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2020, 05:49:56 PM
Of course an LEO wouldn't pay nearly that much.  I noted that a IM doc might pay $20 K a year.

Maybe an LEO would pay $10 K a year.  On a $50 K salary, that doesn't work, obviously.

I think we also have to consider the court time this could create for LEOs somewhat routinely, even if they prevail.  Lawyers would see a bonanza here.  They would file on contingency and look for a quick settlement with the insurance company and take their third.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 19, 2020, 05:50:45 PM
Im against public unions cause the people negotiating for the government have no skin in the game and therefore little incentive to hold wages and benefits to an acceptable level plus this gets worse if the union contributes to their campaign

Im for qualified immunity as the best way to avoid frivolous law suits I might be for some changes in the law but not for completely doing away with it

the officer put my handcuffs on too tight Id like $1,000 for my discomfort
And they shouldn't. If qualified immunity is ended, you can say goodbye to police. To many lawyers will be waiting to sue any and every officer they can whenever someone arrested, detained or even looked at cross eyed by an officer wants to make a case.

Qualified immunity is not the problem. Police unions protecting the bad cops is where the focus needs to be. You take away the immunity, ALL cops will suffer and no one will be willing to put on the uniform.
The Most Common Defenses of Qualified Immunity, and Why They’re Wrong (https://www.cato.org/blog/most-common-defenses-qualified-immunity-why-theyre-wrong)


Quote
3. “Qualified immunity is necessary to prevent frivolous lawsuits against police officers.”
Whether or not you think “frivolous civil‐rights litigation” is a serious problem, it’s a problem that qualified immunity, by its very nature, is incapable of addressing.
There are basically two things we might mean by saying that a particular lawsuit is “frivolous.” First, it could mean that a lawsuit is not legally meritorious, meaning that the facts alleged, even if true, simply do not make out a constitutional violation at all. If that’s the case, then qualified immunity, by definition, is unnecessary to dismiss the lawsuit, because qualified immunity only matters when the defendant has committed an actual constitutional violation, but where a court nonetheless determines that the law wasn’t “clearly established.” If the underlying lawsuit is meritless, however, then it can be dismissed for “[color=var(--link-color)]failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted (https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/rule_12)[/iurl],” without any need to invoke qualified immunity.[/font][/size][/color]
Second, a “frivolous” lawsuit could be one that is not factually supported — in other words, maybe the facts alleged, if true, would make out a constitutional violation, but the plaintiff is either mistaken or lying about the facts. But in that case, qualified immunity does little to help in dismissing the case, because of course, plaintiffs could theoretically lie their way around qualified immunity as well, just by alleging facts that do happen to closely match the fact patterns of prior cases.
The tools that we use to address and deter frivolous litigation are entirely separate from qualified immunity. [color=var(--link-color)]Heightened pleading standards (https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/556/662/)[/iurl] require plaintiffs to make specific, factual, non‐conclusory allegations showing that they are entitled to relief. [color=var(--link-color)]Rule 11[/color] (https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/rule_11) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure requires attorneys to attest that they have a good‐faith basis for the factual and legal arguments in all submitted pleadings, and it provides for sanctions if they fail to meet this standard. Depending on the particular subject matter and context, more stringent requirements may apply. [color=var(--link-color)]Rule 9(b)[/color] (https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/rule_9) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure imposes extra pleading requirements for alleging fraud; the “[color=var(--link-color)]anti‐SLAPP laws[/color] (https://www.rcfp.org/resources/anti-slapp-laws/)” enacted by many states allow for early dismissal of frivolous defamation claims; and the [color=var(--link-color)]Prison Litigation Reform Act of 1996[/color] (https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/prison-litigation-reform-act.html) limited the ability of prisoners to bring successive, non‐meritorious lawsuits.[/font][/size][/color]
Assuming there is a problem with frivolous civil rights litigation, addressing it will require rules like these. But qualified immunity does basically nothing to stop “frivolous” lawsuits because, again, the doctrine only kicks in when the underlying lawsuit is meritorious. The idea that eliminated qualified immunity will result in a wave of frivolous litigation is more baseless fear‐mongering — qualified immunity does nothing now to prevent such litigation, so we shouldn’t expect a major change in this regard if we abolish the doctrine.
4. “Qualified immunity protects police officers from the time and expense of litigation by quickly filtering out bad lawsuits.”
This is a somewhat more sophisticated version of the previous defense, but it’s still mistaken. The argument goes like this: “Yes, in theory, non‐meritorious lawsuits should still end up failing, even in the absence of qualified immunity. But it will take substantial time and resources for officers to successfully defend themselves against these lawsuits. Therefore, even if qualified immunity ends up catching some meritorious cases as well, the doctrine is worth the cost, because it will let defendants quickly and easily dismiss the frivolous ones.”
This objection might sound sensible in the abstract, but in practice, qualified immunity is remarkably ineffective at fulfilling this intended purpose. I come back to the scholarship of Joanna Schwartz, who demonstrated two key points in a 2017 article called How Qualified Immunity Fails (https://www.yalelawjournal.org/article/how-qualified-immunity-fails). First, only a small fraction of the cases in which qualified immunity could be raised are ultimately dismissed on these grounds — which indicates that other mechanisms were sufficient to weed out genuinely non‐meritorious claims. Second, when cases were dismissed on the basis of qualified immunity, this occurred far more frequently at the summary judgment stage of litigation, rather than at the motion‐to‐dismiss stage. In other words, even when defendants successfully got a claim dismissed on the basis of qualified immunity, this usually only occurred after discovery, which is generally the longest and most costly stage of litigation anyway. This means that qualified immunity is actually failing at its own goals of preventing government defendants from being subjected to lawsuits in the first place.

If it is actually the case, or it ends up being the case, that non‐meritorious civil rights litigation is a costly and distracting problem for police officers, then that issue is worth addressing. Perhaps it’s worth investigating whether something like anti‐SLAPP laws would be useful in the civil rights context, so that factually unsupported claims can be quickly dismissed. But qualified immunity is uniquely ill‐suited to address this supposed problem; the practical effect of the doctrine is not to weed out bad cases, but to deny relief to victims whose rights have been violated.
Also remember. We didn't have qualified immunity before 1967. We didn't have modern qualified immunity before 1982. 

Why is it so bad to get rid of it now?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2020, 05:51:57 PM
The world has changed.  The US has far more lawyers per capita than anywhere else.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 19, 2020, 05:55:27 PM
The Most Common Defenses of Qualified Immunity, and Why They’re Wrong (https://www.cato.org/blog/most-common-defenses-qualified-immunity-why-theyre-wrong)

Also remember. We didn't have qualified immunity before 1967. We didn't have modern qualified immunity before 1982.

Why is it so bad to get rid of it now?


The number of lawyers has grown quite a bit since the 1960's. We have turned into a litigious society. I don't believe it was anything close to that in the 60's.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 19, 2020, 06:02:24 PM
Fair enough.

So second question... If you can sue police departments now (and people do), how will it become worse if we can sue officers? 

Assuming we have, in the case of NYC, a $300M payout per year based upon run-rate lawsuits for their officers violating citizens' Constitutional rights, what is the argument that the number of lawsuits will go up simply because the individual officers can be sued instead of the department? 

My argument is that right now, officers are basically shielded from any concern about that $300M because it doesn't come out of their own pocket, they are protected from most disciplinary actions by their union, and thus they don't have incentive towards good behavior. My argument is that if they are incentivized via insurance premiums, they WILL now have an incentive towards good behavior, and perhaps we'll bring that $300M down, which will eventually lower their premiums (while getting rid of the bad apples who price themselves out)...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2020, 06:06:25 PM
The money cannot come out of their pocket, it's simply impossible.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 19, 2020, 06:11:40 PM
I think the courts would make you do away with QI for all city workers if you took it away from the police

and if that happened the municipality could be in a world of hurt
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 19, 2020, 06:33:47 PM
I think the courts would make you do away with QI for all city workers if you took it away from the police

and if that happened the municipality could be in a world of hurt
Really? How many other city workers are being sued for violating constitutional rights and getting the suits tossed out based on a QI defense?

Are city health inspectors regularly getting sued by restaurants and I missed it?

The money cannot come out of their pocket, it's simply impossible. 
The point of insurance is that any judgment against you doesn't come out of your pocket. But the point of premiums coming out of your pocket is you actually have an incentive to behave in ways to reduce your premium. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 19, 2020, 06:49:03 PM
Yeah, sort-of, but not exactly.

That's not what this is, at all.

Even so, Gundy should probably understand the viewpoints of his team well enough to know that being a Trump supporter is going to be an unpopular view.  That much, at least, is on him.

As you know, my brother works in education at the university level.  His bosses and peers and his students are largely liberals.  He's not the smartest guy, but he's much smarter than Gundy.  Not saying much.  My brother understands very well that he can't speak his mind or wear t-shirts that show his political views w/o offending those around him.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 19, 2020, 06:56:27 PM
As you know, my brother works in education at the university level.  His bosses and peers and his students are largely liberals.  He's not the smartest guy, but he's much smarter than Gundy.  Not saying much.  My brother understands very well that he can't speak his mind or wear t-shirts that show his political views w/o offending those around him.
Lol.  Dialogue my ass
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 19, 2020, 07:01:23 PM
I recently re-read "To Kill A Mockingbird", because I am planning on reading "Go Set A Watchman" and wanted it to be fresh. I previously read TKAM back on 2004, when I was on a kick of reading "classics" that I'd never been assigned in school. 

One of the key takeaways was consistently trying to think about things from someone else's perspective. I think most of humanity either forgets to do that, or is incapable, most of the time. 

The world would be a better place if we started off thinking about the people that disagreed with us, and asking "why do they do so? how did they get there? what led to them reaching a conclusion that I disagree with but they sincerely believe is right?" 

But that requires a level of empathy that I think is beyond most peoples' capability. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 19, 2020, 07:05:36 PM
Oh- I think they seem to come up with many talented volunteers- often stepping on each other for the chance- to represent them. 
thinking of Wildcat Forever
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 19, 2020, 07:28:57 PM
Here is a real issue.  This condo has three wrap around decks on 3 levels.  They are 65" deep and about 15 feet long with railing and posts (which the HOA repairs every so often).  The surface is raw concrete.  The wife wants to cover it with something, we originally were going to do tile but she decided she doesn't like that.  I suggested fake grass (with yard line stripes perhaps), she doesn't like fake she says.  The tile issue is if the HOA has the posts repaired the tile gets torn up.

Now she has all these various ideas giving me a headache.  I don't like so many options, just decide, and fine, we'll do it.  Does anyone have a rational idea beyond outdoor carpet, fake grass, and tile?  Her latest idea is garage floor "paint", which probably is a cheap option, which is fine with me.
There's a garage-floor epoxy that has flecks of color.  Looks pretty good.

https://armorpoxy.com/interior/garage-flooring/garage-floor-epoxy/ (https://armorpoxy.com/interior/garage-flooring/garage-floor-epoxy/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 19, 2020, 08:12:37 PM
The number of lawyers has grown quite a bit since the 1960's. We have turned into a litigious society. I don't believe it was anything close to that in the 60's.
I think the question becomes this. How do we make LEOs scared?

See, I want my law enforcement officers to be scared of inflicting even the tiniest bit of excess violence. Maybe I want them so scared they inflict not enough violence on people. Our Texan friend made the joke about one’s handcuffs being too tight. But truth be told, there is in fact hey situation in which cuffs could be too tight, especially for a drawn out period time, and frankly I want cops to be afraid of doing that too.

Removing QI in theory creates a financial fear. Perhaps that’s not tenable, so we’ve just got to think of some other kind of fear we can put in them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 19, 2020, 08:12:54 PM
He had to lie to save his job, because he's a conservative. Think about this.
Based on other incidents in his past, now oozing up to the surface, he may be a racist.  There's a difference between "conservative" and "racist."  I'm a conservative.  I'm not a racist, at least not that I can tell.
But he had to lie to save his job because he was (or feared he was) about to lose about 80% of his team.  If not their bodies, then at least their trust in him.
And he's still going to have problems on the recruiting trail.  That notion seems to be widely accepted in these parts.
And another thing that he definitely is is a dumbass.  A mullet-headed dumbass.
And his middle name is not "Truthful."  So he had no problem telling one lie after another.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 19, 2020, 08:18:19 PM
Yes indeed.  It's listed as a "state holiday" but I don't know anyone that gets the day off.  Maybe state workers?
I know that Tulsa Public Schools (for whom I do not work) has it as an official holiday.  Of course, that doesn't have any impact on teachers or students.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 19, 2020, 08:29:02 PM
I recently re-read "To Kill A Mockingbird", because I am planning on reading "Go Set A Watchman" and wanted it to be fresh. I previously read TKAM back on 2004, when I was on a kick of reading "classics" that I'd never been assigned in school.

One of the key takeaways was consistently trying to think about things from someone else's perspective. I think most of humanity either forgets to do that, or is incapable, most of the time.

The world would be a better place if we started off thinking about the people that disagreed with us, and asking "why do they do so? how did they get there? what led to them reaching a conclusion that I disagree with but they sincerely believe is right?"

But that requires a level of empathy that I think is beyond most peoples' capability.
Amen.  We are at a point where a different opinion is not to be uttered, let alone listened to or heard. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 19, 2020, 08:36:23 PM
I think the question becomes this. How do we make LEOs scared?

See, I want my law enforcement officers to be scared of inflicting even the tiniest bit of excess violence. Maybe I want them so scared they inflict not enough violence on people. Our Texan friend made the joke about one’s handcuffs being too tight. But truth be told, there is in fact hey situation in which cuffs could be too tight, especially for a drawn out period time, and frankly I want cops to be afraid of doing that too.

Removing QI in theory creates a financial fear. Perhaps that’s not tenable, so we’ve just got to think of some other kind of fear we can put in them.
I could get with this- if it could somehow include that they can defend themselves or others- in the heat of mayhem, when violence is already happening.

that’s hard when we can’t agree on when that applies. 

I am never going to be ok with police brutality- but I have seen law enforcement beaten savagely by groups for no other reason then they isolated the officer.  We saw police doing simple response to calls and having buckets of water thrown on them      Over 800 officers injured in the protests.   

what we now have is what you wished for.  They are very afraid to act, in any way.  Those who wii should them harm have no such fear- in fact they feel empowered. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 19, 2020, 08:39:56 PM
Why do unions seem unable to protect the good and ditch the bad?  It's just self-inflicted wounds.
Because unions represent their membership, including the biggest shitbags.  In right-to-work states (at least), one of the things public-sector unions offer is insurance and legal assistance to protect the bad cop (or bad teacher) against being fired.  One way they do that is to drag out the process to the point where the city government (or the school system) just figures that it's not worth the time, energy, and expense unless the case is open-and-shut, and maybe not even then.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 19, 2020, 08:43:17 PM
Man... You'd better watch out. Weed is illegal in Texas, and clearly you're smoking some good sh!t if you think either of those things will happen.

Congress probably won't even manage to pass the bill to end qualified immunity.
Congress shouldn't have to do that.  They already passed a bill that said public employees are liable for their actions if they violate people's civil rights.  Judges invented the qualified immunity standard, which directly contradicts the law, without admitting that it contradicts the law.
It was cowardly of the SCOTUS to decline to hear the QI cases.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 19, 2020, 08:47:15 PM
Really? How many other city workers are being sued for violating constitutional rights and getting the suits tossed out based on a QI defense?

Are city health inspectors regularly getting sued by restaurants and I missed it?
The point of insurance is that any judgment against you doesn't come out of your pocket. But the point of premiums coming out of your pocket is you actually have an incentive to behave in ways to reduce your premium.

Fire Fighters, Maintenance Workers just to name two

Forget insurance never gonna happen
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 19, 2020, 08:48:21 PM
And yet the tangible bill before the House right now, the "End Qualified Immunity Act"?

61 cosponsors. 60 of them are Democrats. 1 of them is a Republican, Tom McClintock of CA. (Amash, the sponsor, is a former Republican turned Libertarian).

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/7085/cosponsors?searchResultViewType=expanded (https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/7085/cosponsors?searchResultViewType=expanded)

Why aren't the Republicans giving in a little for a real change to happen?

We've all talked about ending qualified immunity in this thread. Many of you (who are Republican) agreed that it's a messed up policy and should be ended.

If you're living in a district represented by a Republican, what pressure are you going to put on your Congresscritter to get them to add their names to the cosponsor list of this bill and make it bipartisan?
The Republicans won't do it because the POTUS doesn't like it.  It will not matter how much flak they receive from the home front, they will not buck the POTUS.  Their first consideration before brushing their teeth in the morning is, "Will this cause the POTUS to launch a primary challenge at me?"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 19, 2020, 08:54:14 PM
The Republicans won't do it because the POTUS doesn't like it.  It will not matter how much flak they receive from the home front, they will not buck the POTUS.  Their first consideration before brushing their teeth in the morning is, "Will this cause the POTUS to launch a primary challenge at me?"
I think they think it is a bad idea, and quite knee jerk.   I feel that way just looking at the issue on its face.  Could care less what the dork in the White House thinks. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 19, 2020, 09:15:43 PM
I think they think it is a bad idea, and quite knee jerk.  I feel that way just looking at the issue on its face.  Could care less what the dork in the White House thinks.
It might be true that they think it's a bad idea, HB, but it's irrelevant.  What the POTUS says, and fear of what he might say, is driving every political calculation they make.

I say that as a lifelong Republican.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 19, 2020, 09:20:31 PM
It might be true that they think it's a bad idea, HB, but it's irrelevant.  What the POTUS says, and fear of what he might say, is driving every political calculation they make.

I say that as a lifelong Republican.
You may be right.  I would say almost the opposite     Whatever influence he had on them, which was less than many POTUS typically do, is at its all time low. That’s why so many break from his position or openly call him out. 
The public pressure they feel to go along with the movement- whatever the hell it is/ is at an all time high for this group.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 19, 2020, 10:21:20 PM
The Pres was never part of the party, never will be.  but all politicians base their actions and words on public opinion and their chances of being re-elected.

POTUS is of course in a position of power and influence, therefore he has effect on public opinion, good or bad
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 19, 2020, 10:43:17 PM
You may be right.  I would say almost the opposite    Whatever influence he had on them, which was less than many POTUS typically do, is at its all time low. That’s why so many break from his position or openly call him out.
The public pressure they feel to go along with the movement- whatever the hell it is/ is at an all time high for this group.
I can only think of two who have seriously broken with him.  Mitt Romney and Lisa Murkowski.  Justin Amash too, but he left the party.  Elsewhere, it's either lock-step or "I don't want to talk about that."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 19, 2020, 10:45:01 PM
there's mostly, "I don't want to talk about that."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 19, 2020, 10:47:14 PM
I could get with this- if it could somehow include that they can defend themselves or others- in the heat of mayhem, when violence is already happening.

that’s hard when we can’t agree on when that applies. 

I am never going to be ok with police brutality- but I have seen law enforcement beaten savagely by groups for no other reason then they isolated the officer.  We saw police doing simple response to calls and having buckets of water thrown on them      Over 800 officers injured in the protests.   

what we now have is what you wished for.  They are very afraid to act, in any way.  Those who wii should them harm have no such fear- in fact they feel empowered. 
I've seen some videos to the contrary. If we had what I wished for, and cops were afraid to inflict more harm than necessary, job well done, but I don't think we're actually there or even close to being there. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 19, 2020, 10:53:45 PM
if all cops would simply do their job and be accountable, things would be fine


it's the bad cops that feel the need to be asshats and flaunt their authority because they're not accountable that cause trouble
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 19, 2020, 10:58:38 PM
‘Hey Siri, I’m getting pulled over’ shortcut makes it easy to record police
39
It’s free to download and takes just a few minutes to set up


https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/17/21293996/siri-iphone-shortcut-pulled-over-police-starts-recording-video (https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/17/21293996/siri-iphone-shortcut-pulled-over-police-starts-recording-video)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 19, 2020, 11:01:12 PM
I think the question becomes this. How do we make LEOs scared?

See, I want my law enforcement officers to be scared of inflicting even the tiniest bit of excess violence. Maybe I want them so scared they inflict not enough violence on people. Our Texan friend made the joke about one’s handcuffs being too tight. But truth be told, there is in fact hey situation in which cuffs could be too tight, especially for a drawn out period time, and frankly I want cops to be afraid of doing that too.

Removing QI in theory creates a financial fear. Perhaps that’s not tenable, so we’ve just got to think of some other kind of fear we can put in them.
after a couple generations, a good amount of trust would be built
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 19, 2020, 11:33:45 PM
I've seen some videos to the contrary. If we had what I wished for, and cops were afraid to inflict more harm than necessary, job well done, but I don't think we're actually there or even close to being there.

How many law enforcement officers do you know personally?  I only ask because I occasionally workout at same gym with a big group.  they feel paralyzed.  They feel like they are not even allowed to defend themselves. 

again, people see a thing or 2 and paint a broad brush.  In all directions
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 20, 2020, 01:08:51 AM
I think they think it is a bad idea, and quite knee jerk.  I feel that way just looking at the issue on its face.  Could care less what the dork in the White House thinks.
Yet if we think they're making individual decisions on the merits of the bill, how is it 60:1 difference in cosponsors? There aren't a handful of libertarian leaning Republicans who think this is a good idea?

No, what happened is that Republican congressional leadership says "we're killing this bill" and regardless of what POTUS thinks nobody wanted to go against House leadership. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2020, 05:47:06 AM
Yet if we think they're making individual decisions on the merits of the bill, how is it 60:1 difference in cosponsors? There aren't a handful of libertarian leaning Republicans who think this is a good idea?

No, what happened is that Republican congressional leadership says "we're killing this bill" and regardless of what POTUS thinks nobody wanted to go against House leadership.
Maybe.  But it is a very liberal ( NOT BAD) reaction, and some feel overreaction (NOT AGREEING) to current public attention.  The conservatives genuinely are not reacting that way (NOT AGREEING) and almost always oppose something they feel will cause court cases ( MAY)be a mistake)



in other words- I know some might find it hard to believe- but Many many people just think it is a bad idea. 

Of course your point about partisanship is very true. They could propose the same bill with the exact same words regarding any topic and if it was authored by a Democrat you’ll get the same type of split but if it was offered by a Republican you’d get the reverse.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2020, 08:59:03 AM
https://www.talkingchop.com/2020/6/19/21290728/tom-glavine-ejected-after-throwing-dale-murphy-atlanta-braves-history?fbclid=IwAR3VI7xJ07bLoBoJyjfqLQ6tqPm43hSMz36bsvho2xccQ3YwsMKmOO47RNw (https://www.talkingchop.com/2020/6/19/21290728/tom-glavine-ejected-after-throwing-dale-murphy-atlanta-braves-history?fbclid=IwAR3VI7xJ07bLoBoJyjfqLQ6tqPm43hSMz36bsvho2xccQ3YwsMKmOO47RNw)


I did not recall this, Glavine throwing at Murphy.

Kinda funny.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 20, 2020, 09:57:42 AM
How many law enforcement officers do you know personally?  I only ask because I occasionally workout at same gym with a big group.  they feel paralyzed.  They feel like they are not even allowed to defend themselves.

again, people see a thing or 2 and paint a broad brush.  In all direction

Haven't talked to any of my cop friends for awhile until thursday when I bumped into a retired detective.Played softball together for over 15 yrs.He now is an instructor at a Vocational/Trade Center.But we did a lot of catching up on who's doing what.Maybe the mellowest guy I know - the only time I ever seen him pissed was at a cheap shot taken by an opponenet to one of our playars sliding into 2nd.We had one guy on our team that was a hot headed knob and detective didn't like him also.Most of the LEO's i knew were more than fair and you wouldn't even guess they were cops if you didn't know it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 20, 2020, 10:11:20 AM
I did not recall this, Glavine throwing at Murphy.

Kinda funny.
HA! Cox shown the door with Glavine - on what appear to be change ups
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 20, 2020, 10:14:53 AM
I wasn't a Braves fan back then

they were winning too much
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on June 20, 2020, 11:12:11 AM
I wasn't a Braves fan back then

they were winning too much
And the Huskers weren't?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 20, 2020, 11:19:04 AM
perhaps Bobby Cox wasn't a Husker fan back then
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 20, 2020, 11:38:38 AM
https://www.talkingchop.com/2020/6/19/21290728/tom-glavine-ejected-after-throwing-dale-murphy-atlanta-braves-history?fbclid=IwAR3VI7xJ07bLoBoJyjfqLQ6tqPm43hSMz36bsvho2xccQ3YwsMKmOO47RNw (https://www.talkingchop.com/2020/6/19/21290728/tom-glavine-ejected-after-throwing-dale-murphy-atlanta-braves-history?fbclid=IwAR3VI7xJ07bLoBoJyjfqLQ6tqPm43hSMz36bsvho2xccQ3YwsMKmOO47RNw)


I did not recall this, Glavine throwing at Murphy.

Kinda funny.
I didn't remember that either.


Quote
Atlanta had traded Murphy, along with RHP Tommy Greene, to Philadelphia on August 3, 1990 in exchange for Jeff Parrett, Jim Vatcher and Victor Rosario.

Boy, the Braves really got some valuable players there!  What a steal!  :smiley_confused1:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2020, 11:43:04 AM
Well, Murph had a big salary and was past his prime.

He's a super nice guy.  Bear in mind the Braves went on that winning streak not long after this.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 20, 2020, 12:06:15 PM
As I recall, Murphy had a mole on his face removed, and that seemed to coincide with his fall from great player to merely good player.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 20, 2020, 01:18:53 PM
Murphy fell off a cliff, production-wise.  The Braves merely acted intelligently, wanting to trade him a year early rather than a year late.  

Andruw Jones had a similar production crash.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 20, 2020, 01:19:59 PM
The Pres was never part of the party, never will be.  
Someone tell the republican senators, because they've been kneeling with mouths open for him since day 1.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2020, 01:22:16 PM
Andruw Jones is also a very nice human being.  He speaks 4 languages well.  He spoke French with the wife, she said he had an accent of course but was understandable.   I can't speak four languages (duh).

Murphy came up as a catcher.  Marquis Grissom came up as a pitcher.  Most of these players can do just about anything.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 20, 2020, 02:01:21 PM
Someone tell the republican senators, because they've been kneeling with mouths open for him since day 1.
Pelosi and the Dems have too. 

If they are “resisting” him why have they passed most all of his legislative agenda?

If he’s such a danger, why did they give him another $130 billion a year to buy weapons and bomb the Middle East and North Africa? Why did they expand his powers to spy on Americans? 

It’s all a charade to distract people. They don’t really oppose each other. It’s all theatre to distract Americans and have them argue over silly little semantics. 

There’s one party. The corporatist party. And they have complete control of the government. Even that fraud AoC and even Bernie has been rolled by the Corporatists, they’ve both dropped to their knees like a cheap $2 whore. 

I really thought Trump might’ve been different, he talked a great game and was talking like he was going to be another Teddy Roosevelt or FDR and smash the establishment into pieces, but for the most part he’s been in lock-step with the establishment. I will give him a little bit of credit for killing the TPP.

We honestly just have a lot of bad options, and until the people rise up and say we’re not voting for either party and vote in a 3rd party we will just continue to get more of the same.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on June 20, 2020, 04:52:03 PM
perhaps Bobby Cox wasn't a Husker fan back then
Every time Bobby Cox gets ejected, an angel gets its wings. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 20, 2020, 10:28:18 PM
Every time Bobby Cox gets ejected, an angel gets its wings.
In San Francisco protesters tear down statue of Ulysses S Grant

Never knew he was a racist
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 20, 2020, 10:32:18 PM
In San Francisco protesters tear down statue of Ulysses S Grant

Never knew he was a racist
I’m sure there was a reason for the statue, but it seems like an odd one. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 20, 2020, 10:35:34 PM
I’m sure there was a reason for the statue, but it seems like an odd one.
Prior to the Civil War had 1 slave that was given to him but he freed that slave almost immediately 

so I guess it doesnt matter whether your a conf or a yankee your statue is going down
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 20, 2020, 10:36:25 PM
So Anarchists decide it gets removed.Only a matter of time those biatches are gonna wish they stayed home
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 20, 2020, 10:38:45 PM
So Anarchists decide it gets removed.Only a matter of time those biatches are gonna wish they stayed home
not if they are in a blue city
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 20, 2020, 10:50:37 PM
Maybe he hated the gays.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 20, 2020, 10:52:00 PM
maybe the guys that tore it down are asshats
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 20, 2020, 10:57:36 PM
He smoked cigars and drank and was supposed to have a very corrupt administration

Hell he'd fit right in today
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 20, 2020, 11:08:36 PM
Prior to the Civil War had 1 slave that was given to him but he freed that slave almost immediately

so I guess it doesnt matter whether your a conf or a yankee your statue is going down
I more meant, I don’t know the history of why it’s there at all. SF is a long way from his part of the world. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 20, 2020, 11:31:23 PM
I more meant, I don’t know the history of why it’s there at all. SF is a long way from his part of the world.
He's a former President of this country. He was the general who defeated the Confederate and ended the civil war. He's on the 50 dollar bill.

SF is a part of this country, no? Maybe they just had a statue up honoring the memory of a former American President? I don't see anything unusual about that at all.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on June 20, 2020, 11:41:29 PM
I'm pretty sure I own every Indiana Jones movie on every media, and it's on Netflix, yet Last Crusade is on TV right now with commercials, and there is zero chance that I will turn this off
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 20, 2020, 11:58:29 PM
I'm pretty sure I own every Indiana Jones movie on every media, and it's on Netflix, yet Last Crusade is on TV right now with commercials, and there is zero chance that I will turn this off
I’m like this with all the original Indiana Jones movies and Goodfellas, Godfather 1 or 2, Back to the Future 1, 2, and 3, Dumb & Dumber, Tommy Boy, My Cousin Vinny, and I’m sure there’s a couple more I’m forgetting. Basically any of those movie are on tv and I’m flipping through channels- I’m watching them. And I’ve seen all of them a shitload of times and I still have to watch them. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on June 21, 2020, 12:04:35 AM
I'm pretty sure I own every Indiana Jones movie on every media, and it's on Netflix, yet Last Crusade is on TV right now with commercials, and there is zero chance that I will turn this off
I’ve never seen one Indiana Jones movie. True story. And the only Star Wars one I’ve ever seen was this past December when my son wanted to see it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on June 21, 2020, 12:05:21 AM
I’m like this with all the original Indiana Jones movies and Goodfellas, Godfather 1 or 2, Back to the Future 1, 2, and 3, Dumb & Dumber, Tommy Boy, My Cousin Vinny, and I’m sure there’s a couple more I’m forgetting. Basically any of those movie are on tv and I’m flipping through channels- I’m watching them. And I’ve seen all of them a shitload of times and I still have to watch them.
Ha, you pretty much nailed my top 10 rewatchable movies
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 21, 2020, 12:15:36 AM
I'm pretty sure I own every Indiana Jones movie on every media, and it's on Netflix, yet Last Crusade is on TV right now with commercials, and there is zero chance that I will turn this off
You've chosen wisely,I'm watching it also
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 21, 2020, 12:33:12 AM
I’m sure there was a reason for the statue, but it seems like an odd one.
Whatever the reason for Grant's statue in SF, it's got to be better than Seattle having a statue of Lenin.  And there's no reason for it to be torn down.
That's where the pushback needs to start, along with the Portland mob's destruction of a statue of George Washington.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on June 21, 2020, 12:43:13 AM
I mean, if you don't want your statues torn down...

https://twitter.com/marxandlennon/status/1274072722247647246?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2020, 08:26:26 AM
Searching for Bobbie Fisher was a really good buried movie IMHO.

(They never found him.)

Simple Twist of Fate

The Black Stallion  (Copolla directed)

Field of Shoes

We're watching "The Silk Road" on Amazon' with our Turkish neighbor who just last year took a trip on the Silk Road from western China.  I pause it a lot and ask him questions.  He's the retired physics professor.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 21, 2020, 12:05:02 PM
I mean, if you don't want your statues torn down...

https://twitter.com/marxandlennon/status/1274072722247647246?s=19
HA!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 21, 2020, 12:42:19 PM
He's a former President of this country. He was the general who defeated the Confederate and ended the civil war. He's on the 50 dollar bill.

SF is a part of this country, no? Maybe they just had a statue up honoring the memory of a former American President? I don't see anything unusual about that at all.
That's all very nice. 

But usually, statues are put up for reasons. And I was wondering what that was. And if the reason was, "Ehh, Grant was a war hero and 11 years after he died someone felt like putting up his face in Golden Gate Park," that's fine. But I was curious. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2020, 12:51:03 PM
We were headed to our usual place for brunch to discover it is closed for a "deep cleaning", so we bopped around the corner, I suggested a tapas place we like  En route, we saw Silverlake Ramen that opened Friday, so we had lunch there, really good.  They are out of LA, we chatted a bit with their operations manager  It is fun watching the cooks go at it.

I hear in LA, their outlets tend to have long lines.

https://silverlakeramen.com/images/gallery/table1-row3-col1.jpg
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2020, 12:59:04 PM
I have mused before about how few food choices we had when I was a kid.  My fist pizza I was 16, my first "Mexican" I was 18.  The first Thai restaurant in all of Atlanta opened in 1977 (it's near us).  There were some French restaurants around town, maybe 4, circa 1970.  I think there were pizza places, I just never had been.  My Dad did not like "foreign food", at all.

I can remember a little when the first McDonalds opened up in Augusta, GA in 1961.  You could get a burger for a 1961 penny for a few days.  They just had burgers, fries, shakes, and Cokes.  No "fancy" burgers.  We had a What-A-Burger in Augusta which I really liked.  Eating at the Varsity here was a treat, and Chick-Fil-A was a HUGE treat.  Mostly we ate at home of course, a few times Dad would bring home a bucket.  There were some all you could eat fried catfish places we would go on occasion, I really liked catfish,  or really fried anything.

The old cafeteria in the town we lived in here is still in operation, still crowded.  I took the wife.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 21, 2020, 01:22:11 PM
That's all very nice.

But usually, statues are put up for reasons. And I was wondering what that was. And if the reason was, "Ehh, Grant was a war hero and 11 years after he died someone felt like putting up his face in Golden Gate Park," that's fine. But I was curious.
After the Mexican-American War, Grant was stationed on the West Coast.  He arrived at San Francisco and was later stationed at Fort Humboldt near Eureka.

The Font of All Wisdom and Knowledge has a good summary in its intro:

Quote
Raised in Ohio, young Grant possessed an exceptional ability with horses, which served him well through his military career. He was admitted to West Point and graduated from the U.S. military academy in 1843. Grant served with distinction in the Mexican–American War. In 1848, he married Julia Dent, and together they had four children. Grant abruptly resigned his army commission in 1854 and returned to his family, but lived in poverty for seven years. During the Civil War, he joined the Union Army in 1861, and led the Vicksburg campaign, which gained control of the Mississippi River in 1863. After Grant's victory at Chattanooga, President Abraham Lincoln promoted Grant to Lieutenant General. For thirteen months, Grant fought Robert E. Lee during the high casualty Overland Campaign and at Petersburg. On April 9, 1865, Lee surrendered to Grant at Appomattox. A week later, Lincoln was assassinated, and was succeeded by President Andrew Johnson, who promoted Grant to General of the Army in 1866. Later Grant openly broke with Johnson over Reconstruction policies; Grant used the Reconstruction Acts, which had been passed over Johnson's veto, to enforce civil rights for African freedmen.

A war hero but a reluctant politician, Grant was unanimously nominated by the Republican Party and was elected president in 1868. As president, Grant stabilized the post-war national economy, created the Department of Justice, and prosecuted the Ku Klux Klan. He appointed African-Americans and Jewish-Americans to prominent federal offices. In 1871, he created the first Civil Service Commission.
What's there that demands that his statue be torn down?

The answer, of course, is that nothing does.  Nothing but some anarchistic/nihilistic urge to destroy the fabric of American society.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2020, 01:36:46 PM
What's there that demands that his statue be torn down?

The answer, of course, is that nothing does.  Nothing but some anarchistic/nihilistic urge to destroy the fabric of American society.
This is real. Pretty scary too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 21, 2020, 01:55:08 PM
This is real. Pretty scary too.
And it gives credence to the argument, "Give 'em an inch, and they'll take a mile."  It empowers the racists and--not to conflate the two--empowers the POTUS' re-election campaign.  Surely the people who tore down that statue don't want that, do they?  Or do they?

It's hard to discuss issues about removing Confederate statues and renaming Army posts in good faith with people who are also going to destroy the statues of George Washington and U.S. Grant the next time they get the chance.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 21, 2020, 02:05:42 PM
What's there that demands that his statue be torn down?

The answer, of course, is that nothing does.  Nothing but some anarchistic/nihilistic urge to destroy the fabric of American society.
I wonder if it's a simple as sometimes mobs are dumb and do dumb things.

I understand there was a statue of a prominent abolitionist in Philly that was vandalized.

And apparently descendents of indigenous folks are taking down statues of Junipero Serra here in California, because he was a Spanish Missionary and thus a conqueror of the indigenous peoples? Which seems more opportunistic than anything else to happen now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 21, 2020, 02:13:45 PM
Yep.  And it sometimes doesn't take much to turn a crowd into a mob.  Pure democracy taken to the extreme.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2020, 02:38:55 PM
So, this CHOP thing. WTF is going on in this world? And they build a wall? I didn't know building a wall at a "border" was a good thing.

Violence last night, in the summer of love.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 21, 2020, 02:45:18 PM
So, this CHOP thing. WTF is going on in this world? And they build a wall? I didn't know building a wall at a "border" was a good thing.

Violence last night, in the summer of love.
piarently there was a fatal shooting.  Someone called the police.  They went in with 8-10 and tried to find the victim.   They were greeted with an angry mob, things thrown at them, etc. 
they were surrounded- and proceeded a hasty retreat. 

if anyone wants to debate that/ don’t bother. There is body cam footage available - I have seen it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2020, 02:48:58 PM
What is the currency in this autonomous zone, and how does it stack up against the US dollar? 

What are the names of the utility companies providing services to this area? CHOP Power and Light? CHOP Water Reclamation District? CHOP Water Supply?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on June 21, 2020, 04:46:01 PM
I love the 'garden' they threw together.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 22, 2020, 11:02:04 AM
What is the currency in this autonomous zone, and how does it stack up against the US dollar?

What are the names of the utility companies providing services to this area? CHOP Power and Light? CHOP Water Reclamation District? CHOP Water Supply?
I'd cut their internet and cell service in a minute
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on June 22, 2020, 11:53:45 AM
Man, if 79 yr old Tommy Thompson is a go to as your Interim University System President, things are not good.   I realize there was the awkward withdrawal of the only other finalist.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2020, 12:06:12 PM
I always liked him. He was a big advocate for UW and the System.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 22, 2020, 12:07:17 PM
name recognition
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on June 22, 2020, 12:12:57 PM
I always liked him. He was a big advocate for UW and the System.
Me too.   I hope he's up for task.  Definitely a great advocate.   
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 22, 2020, 12:25:16 PM
piarently there was a fatal shooting.  Someone called the police.  They went in with 8-10 and tried to find the victim.  They were greeted with an angry mob, things thrown at them, etc.
they were surrounded- and proceeded a hasty retreat.

if anyone wants to debate that/ don’t bother. There is body cam footage available - I have seen it
this is where the line should be drawn. and apparently there was another fatal shooting there today.

if the mayor/governor won't step in and take control of the situation, then the president should. I wish he'd send in some seal teams. The most badass dudes we've got.

What these asshats are doing there in "CHOP" is completely unacceptable. Give them a 24 hour warning to clear out and cease and desist, and if they don't, then send in some seal teams and put those CHOP dickwads in body bags.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 22, 2020, 12:31:00 PM
just cut their power and water and internet and cell service

or let them kill each other

no need for good people to get mixed up with them

if you are a good person inside the "zone", get out
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2020, 12:41:35 PM
SEALs are not trained for what is needed here, you don't need that sort of highly trained operators to do what is a pretty basic job.

The police should be able to handle this, 3 AM, clear the streets, declare everyone to get off the streets, and arrest anyone left disobeying curfew.  This is three city blocks.  It's a postage stamp.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 22, 2020, 12:47:30 PM
SEALs are not trained for what is needed here, you don't need that sort of highly trained operators to do what is a pretty basic job.

The police should be able to handle this, 3 AM, clear the streets, declare everyone to get off the streets, and arrest anyone left disobeying curfew.  This is three city blocks.  It's a postage stamp. 
The police can't handle this. If they could, they would have.

Send in seal teams and give them the green light to light it up.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 22, 2020, 12:55:01 PM
if you had given the police the green light, this would have never happened

if you give the police the green light tonight, it would be over in a few hours
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 22, 2020, 12:59:19 PM
if you had given the police the green light, this would have never happened

if you give the police the green light tonight, it would be over in a few hours
then what's the damn hold up? All I have to say is that I'm just glad I don't live in Seattle.

This whole CHOP bullshit is an embarrassment to this country. And it's completely unacceptable.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2020, 01:01:31 PM
I just want it put to an abrupt end, so that it's not mimicked in other poorly-run cities around the country. Like here, for example.


When did it become OK for citizens (some probably aren't) to cease property and ruin it?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2020, 01:02:44 PM
The mayor doesn't want it cleaned up.  This isn't some major tactical problem for the police.

And it's a tiny tiny part of Seattle.  

The notion of sending in SEALs to "light it up" is .... well, not sensible in my view.  Plenty of folks there no doubt are bystanders.

I am surprised they have tolerated this for this long.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 22, 2020, 01:08:05 PM
The mayor doesn't want it cleaned up.  This isn't some major tactical problem for the police.

And it's a tiny tiny part of Seattle. 

The notion of sending in SEALs to "light it up" is .... well, not sensible in my view.  Plenty of folks there no doubt are bystanders.

I am surprised they have tolerated this for this long.
Yeah, I think my reaction for saying that was what badge pretty much explained. Have to do something drastic and dramatic to make others realize this shit is NOT ok and it will not be tolerated and don't even think about emulating it. I don't know what that is. But they have to do something. Fast.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2020, 01:13:34 PM
I will give the Chicago mayor some credit. During the high points of the "protests" one Saturday night, she ordered all the bridges opened in the downtown area. No way in, no way out. That helped save the downtown area from massive damage. 

The other parts of the City (mostly South and West), not so much. Absolute destruction is one way to put it. And now she is begging Walmart, Target, CVS, etc. to rebuild. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2020, 01:18:48 PM
Speaking of Chicago...


At least 106 people were shot in Chicago, 13 of them fatally, from midafternoon Friday through early Monday, according to city officials and Tribune data.


It is the most people shot in one weekend since at least 2012 but not the deadliest this year, after more than 20 were killed over the last weekend in May (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-chicago-gun-deaths-sunday-20200602-rcqkeqliivb2lekog7kkk42aci-story.html), according to data compiled by the Tribune. Twelve of those shot this weekend were younger than 18 years old. Five of those children died.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 22, 2020, 02:40:38 PM
I won't be moving to a "blue" city anytime soon, probably never

talk about a petty political stunt my the Seattle mayor

I'd have her removed from her position

especially now, since there are reports that people have been seriously injured
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 22, 2020, 03:17:18 PM
The city of Columbus has removed two of its three Christopher Columbus statues; the one at city hall, and the one on the campus of Columbus State CC. There are calls to also remove the third one at Easton shopping centre. 

Columbus also has a statue of a Confederate soldier in a Civil War POW cemetery. Mobs have already torn it down once in the past, but it was promptly repaired and replaced at the time. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2020, 03:19:35 PM
I saw there was a petition to rename Columbus. Dood wants to call it Flavortown, since Guy Fieri was born there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 22, 2020, 03:26:25 PM
I saw there was a petition to rename Columbus. Dood wants to call it Flavortown, since Guy Fieri was born there.
They should do it. Personally I think the name Shithole suites it better. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: rolltidefan on June 22, 2020, 03:34:55 PM
so, mrs rtf had a wreck at end of week last week. she's fine, as is everyone else involved, thanks for askin'. car is likely totaled, most airbags deployed and whatnot. i'm no adjuster, but that's my guess.

dealing with rental company has been worst part of it. the local office people seem nice enough, but apparently the company uses a national call center to update clients on pick-up info and stuff, and those people are either ill-informed or incompetent... or both. was told on friday by local people that they don't have a vehicle like we need (need a 7 passenger minimum, long story short we got lots of kids, both our own and fostering). said call back monday and they'll update us. got a call from them saturday (national center, didn't know this at the time) that there was a vehicle available, will be ready monday at 830 am. i figured someone turned one in either late friday or saturday. arrange to pick it up this morning, which involves me being dropped off there at 8, before they open, so the person dropping me off can get to work on time. and turns out, the vehicle mythical. so i spent the better part of my morning waiting for a chasing down a phantom car.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 22, 2020, 03:44:58 PM
They should do it. Personally I think the name Shithole suites it better.
😂😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 22, 2020, 03:51:30 PM
Hmm... I had to deal with this a couple months back when someone rear-ended me. It was the other guy's insurance paying for it, and it was Hertz. All told they made everything really easy. I likewise needed a 7-passenger vehicle and they didn't have any trouble finding one... 

Might be due to location, though... 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 22, 2020, 03:52:15 PM
Wait, California doesn't have to claim Fieri? 

Y'all can have him, Ohio. We never wanted him.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 22, 2020, 03:59:38 PM
They should name it Herbstreit, lol.  


And damn, I didn't realize how many soccer moms we had on this board.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: rolltidefan on June 22, 2020, 04:16:01 PM
Hmm... I had to deal with this a couple months back when someone rear-ended me. It was the other guy's insurance paying for it, and it was Hertz. All told they made everything really easy. I likewise needed a 7-passenger vehicle and they didn't have any trouble finding one...

Might be due to location, though...
this is also hertz, and i'm sure it's all about location. they have a few here, they're just all loaned out right now. the locals knew the situation, but the national call center apparently didn't. they have one coming in tomorrow and it's already reserved for us, so it's not a huge problem. just wish i hadn't wasted a couple hours figuring that out.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 22, 2020, 04:17:00 PM

And damn, I didn't realize how many soccer moms we had on this board.
Hey, I don't drive a minivan. I drive a Ford Flex. As I've said before, it's the ultimate dad-mobile. It's the khaki cargo shorts & white New Balance sneakers of the vehicle world. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: rolltidefan on June 22, 2020, 04:22:32 PM
They should name it Herbstreit, lol. 


And damn, I didn't realize how many soccer moms we had on this board.
me and mrs said we'd never have one. our family was stretching it, but since we started fostering we've really needed one. finally caved and got one back in january. should have gotten one so much sooner. they get shat on a ton, but they are really amazing cars. makes life so much easier.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 22, 2020, 05:10:57 PM
Hey, I don't drive a minivan. I drive a Ford Flex. As I've said before, it's the ultimate dad-mobile. It's the khaki cargo shorts & white New Balance sneakers of the vehicle world.
V6  full-size crossover SUV

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/2013_Ford_Flex_--_07-11-2012.JPG/280px-2013_Ford_Flex_--_07-11-2012.JPG)

looks like a mini van to me
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 22, 2020, 05:16:03 PM
Everybody stay calm, ESPN just confirmed the Big Ten is better than the SEC

By Coleman Bentley

Essentially the premise was this: If you had to craft a 22-man roster of active NFL players but could only pull from a single college football conference, which conference would it be? The answer, as it turns out, was a resounding Big Ten, laying to rest the long-running SEC vs. Big Ten blood feud once and for all. And even if that’s not remotely true, you have to admit that is one hell of a roster, especially when compared to the second-place SEC.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbIGVrAXYAEp5oH?format=jpg&name=360x360)

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/everybody-stay-calm--espn-just-confirmed-the-big-ten-is-better-t?utm_medium=email&utm_source=062220&utm_campaign=hitlist (https://www.golfdigest.com/story/everybody-stay-calm--espn-just-confirmed-the-big-ten-is-better-t?utm_medium=email&utm_source=062220&utm_campaign=hitlist)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 22, 2020, 05:16:43 PM
I never had a minivan.  I had two SUVs.  Most recent one was a full-sized V8 4x4 Z71 offroad package, I loved that vehicle.

Now our family is back down to two cars only. A 4x4 pickup, and a 4x4 Jeep.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 22, 2020, 05:26:06 PM
Anyone have a gas fire table? Like it? Tips? Recommendations?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: rolltidefan on June 22, 2020, 05:27:46 PM
Everybody stay calm, ESPN just confirmed the Big Ten is better than the SEC

says golfdigest (https://www.golfdigest.com/story/everybody-stay-calm--espn-just-confirmed-the-big-ten-is-better-t?utm_medium=email&utm_source=062220&utm_campaign=hitlist)
meh
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: rolltidefan on June 22, 2020, 05:31:48 PM
Anyone have a gas fire table? Like it? Tips? Recommendations?
my parents have one. i've only been around a couple times when they're using it so i can't say from my perspective, but they started to really like it this past year. they were doing something wrong with the lava rocks initially and it wasn't heating up very well. something about how you stack the rocks or put them in the bowl makes it more/less effective. but they figured it out and said it was putting out some good heat this year.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2020, 05:37:22 PM
Anyone have a gas fire table? Like it? Tips? Recommendations?
We like ours.


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZVC2Q1N/ref=dp_cerb_2

 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZVC2Q1N/ref=dp_cerb_2)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 22, 2020, 05:44:12 PM
Anyone have a gas fire table? Like it? Tips? Recommendations?
the golf course has a couple of these on the deck

they are nice to sit by to enjoy a cigar and a drink after the round if it's cool

don't put off much heat

they don't get much use


(https://i.imgur.com/3fDOFmR.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2020, 05:59:20 PM
I have been around them in outdoor bars, I agree, the one's I've seen put out almost no heat unless you are very close to it, which makes sense. 

A wood fire gets "hottest" when you get to embers, not the flames, same with charcoal of course.  The flames are lower temperature burning volatiles that need to be burned off before you get the higher temperature volatiles burning.  That is why coal is so hot when it burns, and coking coal even hotter.

NG can never get that way.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2020, 06:01:09 PM
Sankey is saying July for a decision on the season.  

I have gone from thinking it probable to very improbable.

Numbers in GA are clearly going up, R0 is over one, and this thing is getting out of hand.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 22, 2020, 06:17:51 PM
They should name it Herbstreit, lol. 


And damn, I didn't realize how many soccer moms we had on this board.
That idea is only sound if they are in need of an "H" name in order to denote it as the new spot in which the govt can test H-bombs. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 22, 2020, 06:22:42 PM
The heat is a concern. We are updating our back yard and my wife built a bunch of furniture. I was going to put a fire pit in the center, but those can be annoyingly smoky.  But they do get super warm. Still I think a gas one as part of a table will be the way to go. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 22, 2020, 06:33:51 PM
V6  full-size crossover SUV

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/2013_Ford_Flex_--_07-11-2012.JPG/280px-2013_Ford_Flex_--_07-11-2012.JPG)

looks like a mini van to me
It's like a minivan, but cool.

In a white New Balance sneaker sort of way. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 22, 2020, 06:39:39 PM
The heat is a concern. We are updating our back yard and my wife built a bunch of furniture. I was going to put a fire pit in the center, but those can be annoyingly smoky.  But they do get super warm. Still I think a gas one as part of a table will be the way to go.
We have a natural gas firepit outside, with ceramic fake fire logs, and once those heat up it actually radiates some decent heat. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 22, 2020, 06:40:16 PM
What are those vans called that seat 12+? 

Maxivans? 
(https://cars.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/0416f37/2147483647/resize/640x420%3E/format/jpeg/quality/85/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcars.usnews.com%2Fstatic%2Fimages%2Farticle%2F201703%2F126727%2F9_640x420.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 22, 2020, 06:44:38 PM
They should do it. Personally I think the name Shithole suites it better.
Really almost as bad as that leftist swampy morass 40 miles west of Detroit,the famous whore
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on June 22, 2020, 06:47:24 PM
I could watch this all night

https://twitter.com/JuMosq/status/1275062450308575236?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 22, 2020, 06:47:33 PM
Wait, California doesn't have to claim Fieri?

Y'all can have him, Ohio. We never wanted him.
WE?How long have you been there?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 22, 2020, 06:55:02 PM
WE?How long have you been there?
Eh, going on 20 years, minus the 2 years in Georgia.

If you count my time in West Lafayette at Purdue as an Indiana resident, rather than Illinois, I've now lived in California longer than any other state. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2020, 07:04:39 PM
3 year old shot on the South side today. The mother was the intended target. Luckily is was a graze and not a direct hit.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 22, 2020, 07:09:27 PM
3 year old shot on the South side today. The mother was the intended target. Luckily is was a graze and not a direct hit.
So damn sad.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 22, 2020, 07:26:07 PM
3 year old shot on the South side today. The mother was the intended target. Luckily is was a graze and not a direct hit.
I googled this up, and it was the father that was grazed. The three year old died. 

Either that, or there were two three year olds shot in Chicago, which is not exactly outside of the realm of possibility or probability. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 22, 2020, 07:36:41 PM
Eh, going on 20 years, minus the 2 years in Georgia.

If you count my time in West Lafayette at Purdue as an Indiana resident, rather than Illinois, I've now lived in California longer than any other state.
in 04-06 on the old board I thought you were W.L. - you had that blog site magnificent bastard or sumsuch
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2020, 07:40:46 PM
I googled this up, and it was the father that was grazed. The three year old died.

Either that, or there were two three year olds shot in Chicago, which is not exactly outside of the realm of possibility or probability.
You are looking at the one over the weekend. The one I referenced happened today.

https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/3-year-old-girl-shot-in-chicago-lawn-in-good-condition/

A (https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/3-year-old-girl-shot-in-chicago-lawn-in-good-condition/)nd also this one:

https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/police-2-women-dead-1-woman-injured-after-gresham-shooting/
 (https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/police-2-women-dead-1-woman-injured-after-gresham-shooting/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 22, 2020, 08:23:36 PM
Well I guess the love fest in Seattle is over.  The mayor has announced the police are going back in after the violence and at least one death over the last few days. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 22, 2020, 08:31:56 PM
Hey, I don't drive a minivan. I drive a Ford Flex. As I've said before, it's the ultimate dad-mobile. It's the khaki cargo shorts & white New Balance sneakers of the vehicle world.
I wonder if Jim Harbaugh drives this.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 22, 2020, 09:24:43 PM
Well I guess the love fest in Seattle is over.  The mayor has announced the police are going back in after the violence and at least one death over the last few days.


the mayor grew a pair of tits???
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 22, 2020, 10:35:13 PM
the mayor grew a pair of tits???
the summer of love didnt quite pan out
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 22, 2020, 10:43:36 PM
Today another group tried to set up another autonomous zone, this one in DC.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jun/22/black-house-autonomous-zone-declared-amid-washingt/ (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jun/22/black-house-autonomous-zone-declared-amid-washingt/)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 23, 2020, 12:30:22 AM
So for those of you who have relocated from the north to the south, how many warm winter's will you get to enjoy before you become acclimated to the climate, and fall into agreement with the locals that fifty degrees is ski mask weather?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on June 23, 2020, 12:41:37 AM
I do respect winter, meaning I'll wear a coat and all if I'm going to spend some legitimate time outdoors when it is sub 20 degrees.   Ski mask?   That's like arctic blast cold, still probably won't bother with it if I'm just getting the mail or heading on a short errand somewhere.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 23, 2020, 01:29:00 AM
What is a ski mask?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 23, 2020, 01:33:24 AM
Today another group tried to set up another autonomous zone, this one in DC.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jun/22/black-house-autonomous-zone-declared-amid-washingt/ (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jun/22/black-house-autonomous-zone-declared-amid-washingt/)


I don't get it.  People are elbowing their way into some land for free use, and they pick urban Seattle and DC?  I'd be fencing off 847's new digs - palm trees and water access.  Create a rebel navy and declare it a lefty tourist destination, charge whatever I wanted.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 23, 2020, 01:35:05 AM
A ski mask is that thing that Miami fans have to buy, just in case they have to play a bowl game in Orlando. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2020, 04:20:48 AM
We went south about 400 miles and winters changed from dreary cold dark and sodden to markedly less chilly and sunlit, much better.  It's rare that we can't walk as much as we want without really getting cold, rain aside.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 23, 2020, 06:16:00 AM
So for those of you who have relocated from the north to the south, how many warm winter's will you get to enjoy before you become acclimated to the climate, and fall into agreement with the locals that fifty degrees is ski mask weather?
This is my fourth full year having gone from MI to FL. 

while I do NOT miss the winters I do miss the change of seasons, and when I go up to Mi to visit in fall or winter, the cooler air is a great change.  Summers here just too humid.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 23, 2020, 08:25:39 AM
I don't want to be there in the summers. I'd like to live on by boat in that timeframe. But, my partners want me to start an office down there now. Can't start an office and leave for 3 months every year.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 23, 2020, 08:40:56 AM
I can barely deal with Ohio humidity, much less Florida's.  If I packed up and moved I'd probably prefer Washington or Oregon, but my wife hates rain.  New Mexico would be a great option - the forecast this week for Santa Fe has every day in the 80's and every night in the 50's.  Plus all the chiles you can handle.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 23, 2020, 08:51:34 AM
I'd be fencing off 847's new digs - palm trees and water access.  Create a rebel navy and declare it a lefty tourist destination, charge whatever I wanted.
Already been done https://conchrepublic.com/ (https://conchrepublic.com/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 23, 2020, 08:58:16 AM
I'll be checking new mexico in a few years

gotta be better than Texas or Arizona

Florida is way to humid
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 23, 2020, 09:14:39 AM


Wuss - stay there and run for mayor
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2020, 09:24:30 AM
Cincinnati was the most humid place I've ever lived for two months out of the year.  I'd walk outside and my glasses would fog up.  That was the first (not last) time that had ever happened to me when I moved there.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2020, 09:25:49 AM
People often take cues from their leaders.  If THEIR leader wears a mask, they tend to emulate that, and vice versa.

I think today not wearing a mask is at times a political statement.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 23, 2020, 09:41:03 AM
I'll be checking new mexico in a few years

gotta be better than Texas or Arizona

Florida is way to humid
Word up.  New Mexico is way, way, WAY better than Texas.  You should definitely move there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 23, 2020, 09:42:19 AM

Wuss - stay there and run for mayor
Oh, I could easily be mayor of this village of 300 folks

hoping they don't find a way to stick it on me before I leave
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 23, 2020, 09:46:08 AM
So for those of you who have relocated from the north to the south, how many warm winter's will you get to enjoy before you become acclimated to the climate, and fall into agreement with the locals that fifty degrees is ski mask weather?
Been almost 20 years for me, and it hasn't happened yet. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 23, 2020, 09:52:34 AM
Oh, I could easily be mayor of this village of 300 folks

hoping they don't find a way to stick it on me before I leave
City Council could be the 19th Hole,record the sessions on bar napkins save the locals some coin
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 23, 2020, 10:09:07 AM
People often take cues from their leaders.  If THEIR leader wears a mask, they tend to emulate that, and vice versa.

I think today not wearing a mask is at times a political statement.
For sure. But that is not the only factor.  There is evidence that younger v older, and other demographics is also impacting this. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/why-do-so-many-americans-refuse-to-wear-face-masks-it-may-have-nothing-to-do-with-politics-2020-06-16
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 23, 2020, 10:16:19 AM
Still contemplating but may DIY the fire pit. It doesn't look tremendously difficult and I'm worried the dogs will eat the ones on Amazon.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 23, 2020, 10:18:21 AM
Dogs? They can't eat steel, can they?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 23, 2020, 10:37:58 AM
Dogs? They can't eat steel, can they?
I dunno man they ate my grill
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 23, 2020, 10:48:07 AM
These don't sound like dogs. Damn.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 23, 2020, 11:19:07 AM
For sure. But that is not the only factor.  There is evidence that younger v older, and other demographics is also impacting this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/why-do-so-many-americans-refuse-to-wear-face-masks-it-may-have-nothing-to-do-with-politics-2020-06-16
yeah I don’t think leaders have anything to do with mask wearing. I think some people just don’t give a shit. 

And I’d like to add that from what I’m seeing, there are more young people wearing the masks than old people in public. 

Last week I was down in Ft Lauderdale for lunch at a well known diner in that area called Lester’s, it was jam packed and mostly old people 60+, and literally maybe only 2 of them had masks. More than 90% of them didn’t even have masks with them, All the young people though- 90% at least had masks and the only time they took them off was to order or eat. 

Which blows my mind, because it’s the young people who aren’t affected by this. If they get coronavirus 99.999999% chance they’ll be asymptotic or have mild symptoms and brush it off. It’s the old farts who weren’t wearing the masks that would be in actual danger of dying from this thing.  

And Ft Lauderdale isn’t exactly Trump voters if you catch my drift. That city is populated and run by Dems.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 23, 2020, 11:38:12 AM
These don't sound like dogs. Damn.
Chupacabra
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 23, 2020, 11:44:07 AM
So for those of you who have relocated from the north to the south, how many warm winter's will you get to enjoy before you become acclimated to the climate, and fall into agreement with the locals that fifty degrees is ski mask weather?
I mean, obviously not to ski mask levels, but I feel like it usually takes about one winter or less to adapt. I know when I was in school, every time I went home it felt super drafty and chilly inside. That's because my parents house is old and not super insulated, but it never got cold enough to matter, while places in Wisconsin are well insulated and oft super heated.

Anyway, people's ability to adapt fast is kind of a marvel. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on June 23, 2020, 11:57:19 AM
Anyone have a gas fire table? Like it? Tips? Recommendations?

We have one, really love it. Doesn't produce a lot of heat, but it doesn't need to here in Phoenix.

When we can no longer sit in our pool, we transfer to the fire pit. Turn it on, with a bottle of wine and just sit in the back yard and enjoy the beautiful desert winter weather.

This is what we have
https://www.livingspaces.com/pdp-outdoor-concrete-glass-firepit-217115 (https://www.livingspaces.com/pdp-outdoor-concrete-glass-firepit-217115)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on June 23, 2020, 12:08:21 PM
So for those of you who have relocated from the north to the south, how many warm winter's will you get to enjoy before you become acclimated to the climate, and fall into agreement with the locals that fifty degrees is ski mask weather?

Been in the desert for 7 years, I am a desert dweller, I like it over 90 degrees. I started wearing a jacket in the winter when it is in the 50s after about 4 or 5 years.

I haven't gone to gloves yet. Though early in my time here when I was officiating football, I argued with my fellow officials whether to wear long sleeves. This past year we did a game up in Prescott where the temps dropped into the 40s and was freezing in my short sleeves and would have worn gloves if I had them with me. The whole crew bought long sleeve shirts for these type of games in the future. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on June 23, 2020, 12:10:51 PM
I'll be checking new mexico in a few years

gotta be better than Texas or Arizona

Florida is way to humid
I love Arizona, couldn't pay me enough to live anywhere else. If I want anything snow, ocean, change of season, etc. I am only a short drive away, but I still hate shoveling the sunshine in the middle of winter
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 23, 2020, 12:15:28 PM
Been in the desert for 7 years, I am a desert dweller, I like it over 90 degrees. I started wearing a jacket in the winter when it is in the 50s after about 4 or 5 years.

I haven't gone to gloves yet. Though early in my time here when I was officiating football, I argued with my fellow officials whether to wear long sleeves. This past year we did a game up in Prescott where the temps dropped into the 40s and was freezing in my short sleeves and would have worn gloves if I had them with me. The whole crew bought long sleeve shirts for these type of games in the future.
I'd rather have Chicago winters than Phoenix summers. Although I don't like Chicago summers much either. 

But... Where I'm at I don't have to worry about either one. 

I might wear a light jacket if it gets down to low 50s or into the 40s... But it never gets cold enough here to do much more than that. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 23, 2020, 12:16:39 PM
well, Arizona and New Mexico have to be a bit similar, such as Nebraska and Iowa
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 23, 2020, 12:20:43 PM
Isn't much of New Mexico at higher elevations? Phoenix and Tucson are pretty low-lying places. That could make a big difference in Winter.

My in-laws used to have a place in Show Low AZ to escape to in the summers, in the mountains. You couldn't be up there in the winter if you don't like winter. Now they just hunker down in Chandler all summer.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 23, 2020, 12:28:25 PM
well, Arizona and New Mexico have to be a bit similar, such as Nebraska and Iowa
Isn't much of New Mexico at higher elevations? Phoenix and Tucson are pretty low-lying places. That could make a big difference in Winter.

My in-laws used to have a place in Show Low AZ to escape to in the summers, in the mountains. You couldn't be up there in the winter if you don't like winter. Now they just hunker down in Chandler all summer.
Yep. I recall a business trip many summers ago where it was a day in Phoenix followed by a day in Albuquerque. 

Phoenix was 115. Albuquerque was about 95. Which in the desert, 95 isn't all that bad. 

Albuquerque is somewhere around a mile elevation, which helps in the summer. I've never been there in winter though. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 23, 2020, 12:32:08 PM
I'll bet the winter there isn't much like the winter here in NW Iowa
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 23, 2020, 12:51:31 PM
They should do it. Personally I think the name Shithole suites it better.
Ha. I guess the name Ann Arbor was already taken as they are synonyms. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 23, 2020, 12:53:28 PM
It's like a minivan, but cool.

In a white New Balance sneaker sort of way.
You and I differ on our definition of "cool". 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 23, 2020, 01:01:38 PM
You and I differ on our definition of "cool".
I've been told that before by many.

But it's ok. Y'all can be wrong together.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 23, 2020, 01:07:24 PM
Wearing white New Balance shoes is a thing? I had no idea.

I wear New Balance because they're my favorite shoe for running after long years of trying out Nike, Saucony, Brooks, Aesics, and probably some others.

But my New Balance running shoes aren't white.  Usually I get gray.  I had one pair that was bright blue, but they were a little too flashy for me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 23, 2020, 01:08:38 PM
black and Burnt Orange seem to work well for you
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 23, 2020, 01:11:39 PM
black and Burnt Orange seem to work well for you
Well thanks, man!  I don't know if New Balance makes any burnt orange shoes.  They do make black ones, I've occasionally bought those as well.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 23, 2020, 01:47:16 PM
Isn't much of New Mexico at higher elevations? Phoenix and Tucson are pretty low-lying places. That could make a big difference in Winter.

My in-laws used to have a place in Show Low AZ to escape to in the summers, in the mountains. You couldn't be up there in the winter if you don't like winter. Now they just hunker down in Chandler all summer.
Yeah, the elevation makes a huge difference. I am in St George Utah which is about 3000 feet. In may there was still snow atop the great mountain north of town. In the valley we were already swimming and boating.

Mesquite Nevada is just south of us, but at 1000 feet it is always about ten degrees hotter. The town just north of us, Cedar City, is at 5000 feet, and is always about ten degrees cooler.

The Grand Canyon is nearby, and the ranger said that the top had a climate similar to BC Canada, while the bottom has a tropical, equatorial climate. The Natives used to grow crops at all different levels in order to take advantage of the various climates therein. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2020, 01:52:11 PM
The aviation rule of thumb - which is useful in predicting cloud bottoms - is 1,000 feet = 4.5°F of cooling.

Albequerque is over 6,000' ASL.  The Sandia Mountains nearby go over 12,000.  I've been in Hawaii freezing in the snow at nearly 14,000.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 23, 2020, 02:41:46 PM
I'm at about 1,000 feet now, I think I need a couple thousand more for a retirement spot

I don't need 111 degrees in the summer

I don't need below zero in the winter

I don't mind a little snow around Xmas, as long as the snow that falls in December isn't still there until March
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2020, 02:44:03 PM
I'm at 1,000 feet also, and it helps a bit relative to south Georgia.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 23, 2020, 03:19:32 PM
I'm at about 1,000 feet now, I think I need a couple thousand more for a retirement spot

I don't need 111 degrees in the summer

I don't need below zero in the winter

I don't mind a little snow around Xmas, as long as the snow that falls in December isn't still there until March
Spaulding you'll take what you get and you'll like it!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 23, 2020, 03:52:33 PM
I've been taking it and liking it for decades

I'm not liking it as much as I once did

I might take a Uhaul trailer out of town
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 23, 2020, 04:34:07 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/jD7wYL7.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 23, 2020, 04:53:01 PM
I can barely deal with Ohio humidity, much less Florida's.  If I packed up and moved I'd probably prefer Washington or Oregon, but my wife hates rain.  New Mexico would be a great option - the forecast this week for Santa Fe has every day in the 80's and every night in the 50's.  Plus all the chiles you can handle.
My MIL lives in Santa Fe, in a gated community at 7700 feet, up Hyde Park Road on the way to the ski slopes.  I've been there more times than I care to count.
From what I've seen, in Santa Fe, you're either retired from a prosperous career elsewhere and living in a gated community up above the peons or you are one of the peons living in a faux-dobe hovel.  There are some nice middle-class neighborhoods down adjacent to the Plaza, but not many.
Great museums, great art galleries, great restaurants.  For those who can afford those things.
We've gotten tired of the color of brown.  Faux-dobe everywhere.  Bad streets.  Bad public services.  Bad medical care (odd, considering all the wealthy retirees).  Bad public schools.  Even the most mundane things, like a car wash, are expensive, like what you'd expect to see in San Francisco.
Great weather, though.  And great views of the mountains.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 23, 2020, 05:13:39 PM
I'd be in some nice middle-class neighborhood down adjacent to the Plaza,

unless the peons have a decent golf course

then I'd fit right in
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2020, 06:19:27 PM
The noose thing with Bubba Wallace NASCAR story is a fake, nothing to it by hype.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 23, 2020, 06:37:36 PM
My MIL lives in Santa Fe, in a gated community at 7700 feet, up Hyde Park Road on the way to the ski slopes.  I've been there more times than I care to count.
From what I've seen, in Santa Fe, you're either retired from a prosperous career elsewhere and living in a gated community up above the peons or you are one of the peons living in a faux-dobe hovel.  There are some nice middle-class neighborhoods down adjacent to the Plaza, but not many.
Great museums, great art galleries, great restaurants.  For those who can afford those things.
We've gotten tired of the color of brown.  Faux-dobe everywhere.  Bad streets.  Bad public services.  Bad medical care (odd, considering all the wealthy retirees).  Bad public schools.  Even the most mundane things, like a car wash, are expensive, like what you'd expect to see in San Francisco.
Great weather, though.  And great views of the mountains.
My dad and I went to the Albuquerque  hot air balloon festival once then drove around New Mexico.  I agree with you on the excessive faux-dobe.  Also, in some of the smaller towns it felt like every resident sold art for a living.  Not sure how sustainable that was.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 23, 2020, 07:06:07 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/jD7wYL7.png)😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 23, 2020, 07:48:58 PM
The noose thing with Bubba Wallace NASCAR story is a fake, nothing to it by hype.


What an unexpected plot twist. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 23, 2020, 08:13:21 PM
The noose thing with Bubba Wallace NASCAR story is a fake, nothing to it by hype.
well, the faker should get 10 years in the pen
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 23, 2020, 08:19:16 PM
The noose thing with Bubba Wallace NASCAR story is a fake, nothing to it by hype.
Jussie Smollett part 2?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 23, 2020, 09:24:30 PM
Jussie Smollett part 2?

He used the same prop, but really mailed in the execution. 

Difference between being an actor and an "athlete" I suppose. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 23, 2020, 09:41:22 PM

What an unexpected plot twist.
The walk back will be nothing like the walk forward. 

Unexpected?

Not hardly.

This is where we are. I wish my kids well.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 23, 2020, 09:57:51 PM
So we're going to pretend it's cool that a noose is just hanging around?  Cuz that's normal.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 23, 2020, 10:00:10 PM
That has been the for at least 8 months and was used to pull a garage door down with.That's what the National news said
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 23, 2020, 10:05:40 PM
it wasn't a noose
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 23, 2020, 10:06:43 PM
Apparently there are many of them, one in most of the garages there

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 23, 2020, 10:08:05 PM
incase the electricity goes out

they're hangin on most overhead doors

most just don't have the funny looking loop and knot on the end as a handle
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 23, 2020, 10:11:01 PM
Ya sure Fearless way to throw shade
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 23, 2020, 10:12:26 PM
I wanna know who identified it as a noose

there's your racist
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on June 23, 2020, 10:19:46 PM
So we're going to pretend it's cool that a noose is just hanging around?  Cuz that's normal.
If you were like me you probably pictured a large rope hanging from a ceiling someone could slip a head into.

I saw a picture online and it wasn’t anything like that. It was a small noose hanging from a garage door that you could  hook your index finger in and pull the door down.

I’m actually pretty stunned someone could see that and assume it was meant to be menacing or send a message. But given the hypersensitivity to everything anyone says or does I blame myself for being surprised.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on June 24, 2020, 12:25:43 AM
I'm just glad the Palomar knot doesn't look like a noose, how would I fish?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on June 24, 2020, 12:38:46 AM
Still contemplating but may DIY the fire pit. It doesn't look tremendously difficult and I'm worried the dogs will eat the ones on Amazon.
I had our landscape guys do ours.  Love it.  We have gas running out to it.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2020, 06:58:21 AM
So we're going to pretend it's cool that a noose is just hanging around?  Cuz that's normal.
The FBI said it had been there for over a year and was not a noose, but a garage door pull.

Whoever reported this as a noose was an idiot.  This is why no photos of the "noose" were published, it's simply not a "noose".
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 07:36:09 AM
Only NASCAR would have nooses on their garage doors
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2020, 07:39:23 AM
It's a very common feature everywhere.  It's a pull handle, not something nefarious or intended to be a "noose".  Only an idiot would think it was a noose or had anything to do with a noose.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 07:56:39 AM
NASCAR must have a lot of idiots for them to see it and call the FBI
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 24, 2020, 08:01:00 AM
Ya of course the media immediately recognized this not want wanting to create a stir
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2020, 08:10:47 AM
It only takes ONE idiot to cause this stir.  Wallace says he never saw the knot at least early on.

Now it's says it's a noose for hanging.

What COULD have happened is some mechanic found it lying in the corner and went to throw it out, knowing it was the knot used as a garage handle and had been replaced at some point and not discarded.  He showed it to some "idiot" as a joke saying "Hey, a noose!" thinking the other person would laugh, but it got reported as a noose.

Garage humor gone wrong.

He tries to clarify but by then the story is out.  He explains to the FBI and shows them the knot all over the garages.  They look askance at the whole deal and try and wrap it up gracefully.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 24, 2020, 08:12:46 AM
I'm just glad the Palomar knot doesn't look like a noose, how would I fish?
Real Fisherman know to use the improved clinch knot instead 😎

https://tyepro.com/blogs/news/improved-clinch-vs-palomar-and-does-it-matter (https://tyepro.com/blogs/news/improved-clinch-vs-palomar-and-does-it-matter)
But even then, the results of experts may hinge on their own preferences. We can safely assume that Berwin was a qualified judge. Yet a similar study from Fly Fisherman (http://www.flyfisherman.com/gear-accessories/fly-tying-materials-gear-and-accessories/2012-tippet-shootout/) magazine found the improved clinch to be the third best of 15 knots tested, beating out the palomar.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 08:19:14 AM
My thought is that it was clearly a noose.  Someone fashioned the garage door pull using a noose knot, and it wasn't until NASCAR banned confederate flags and some  guy was flying one over the track and Wallace was assigned to that garage that anyone noticed it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2020, 08:22:38 AM
In other news, the number of restaurants not reopened around us is concerning, many of them have posted notices that they are permanently done.

One opened and has closed because two of their staff tested positive.

We peek in the nicer places that reopened and they have almost no one seated inside.  We dined at South City Kitchen the other day, their sister down the street Lure is not open, and they had a 20% surcharge on the menu that I questioned, it was basically to help the place out.  The server said he had been out of work 91 days.  I left a large cash tip.

A noodle place just opened and is quite good, we dined there last night.  A burger place opened just before this happened and they seem to be hanging in, the other burger place is still closed.  (The best burger place near us is open and crowded, again, limited parking and hard to get into.)

The French restaurant is open and has outdoor seating which is a bit close to a busy street but we dine outside preferably.

We go there for the atmosphere.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2020, 08:23:46 AM
My thought is that it was clearly a noose.  Someone fashioned the garage door pull using a noose knot, and it wasn't until NASCAR banned confederate flags and some  guy was flying one over the track and Wallace was assigned to that garage that anyone noticed it.

So, you disagree with the FBI?

The folks who looked into this and said there is nothing to it?

Interesting, another case of confirmation bias.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 08:31:02 AM
So, you disagree with the FBI?

The folks who looked into this and said there is nothing to it?

Interesting, another case of confirmation bias.
They didn't say there was nothing to it.  They said exactly what I said, that it was a garage door pull "fashioned like a noose" and placed there last year.  My point is that a noose hanging down might not be much of a big deal until there is a black guy in the garage and people are flying confederate flags overhead.  Then it looks like a message, not a garage door pull.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 08:34:23 AM
I have yet to go out to eat but still take advantage of the food trucks that come around the neighborhood since this started.  My dream is that food trucks get even more popular, they relax the liquor laws, and we get a different traveling restaurant every day.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2020, 08:40:45 AM
The FBI said Tuesday the noose had been in the garage since last year and Wallace was therefore not a victim of a hate crime.  (https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/23/us/nascar-noose-not-hate-crime-bubba-wallace/index.html)NASCAR, mentioning the FBI report, described the item as a "garage door pull rope fashioned like a noose."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2020, 08:42:00 AM
One possible explanation ....

This rope had been replaced and somehow left in the corner.  Some mechanic who knew what it was found it and went to throw it out and held it up for someone else, perhaps visitor or something, and said "Hey, look, a noose!" as a joke.  That neophyte reported it to the President of NASCAR who now felt he had to take action.  The original mechanic tried to explain, was forced to retrieve the noose from the trash, and now the word had spread.

So, they call the FBI, who sends agents who talk to everyone, see the "noose" and fairly quickly write it up trying to limit the damage to all parties.  Henceforth, all garage door pulls use handles instead of the simple knot.

It is one possibility, an example of how something gets out of hand quickly in this environment.  As to why Wallace wants to maintain this is a real noose, well, you can draw your own conclusions.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 08:42:01 AM
The FBI said Tuesday the noose had been in the garage since last year and Wallace was therefore not a victim of a hate crime. (https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/23/us/nascar-noose-not-hate-crime-bubba-wallace/index.html)NASCAR, mentioning the FBI report, described the item as a "garage door pull rope fashioned like a noose."
Yes, exactly.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2020, 08:43:29 AM
My thought is that it was clearly a noose.  Someone fashioned the garage door pull using a noose knot, and it wasn't until NASCAR banned confederate flags and some  guy was flying one over the track and Wallace was assigned to that garage that anyone noticed it.

This is nonsensical to me, inconsistent with reported facts.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 08:47:19 AM
This is nonsensical to me, inconsistent with reported facts.


It is consistent with all the facts.  What fact is it inconsistent with? The FBI found there to be a noose, found Wallace wouldn't have known it was there until he was assigned to the garage, and btw there were a bunch of angry racists protesting their right to fly confederate flags.  It all adds up to people seeing the noose and instead of thinking it was just a garage pull it was actually a message.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2020, 08:48:48 AM
At least 119 people were killed during the 1863 New York Draft Riots protesting the unfair nature of draft laws. As written, the laws favored wealthy men, who could pay poor men to take their place on Civil War battlefields. Provided by FactRetriever.com
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2020, 08:50:00 AM
The FBI said Tuesday the noose had been in the garage since last year and Wallace was therefore not a victim of a hate crime. (https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/23/us/nascar-noose-not-hate-crime-bubba-wallace/index.html)NASCAR, mentioning the FBI report, described the item as a "garage door pull rope fashioned like a noose."
It was a common garage door pull, photos of which have been posted all over.

It had been left there for a long time, it was not directed at Wallace in any way, and it was not a noose of the sort one would use to a symbol.


(https://i.imgur.com/gIKLMmc.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2020, 08:50:30 AM
It is consistent with all the facts.  What fact is it inconsistent with? The FBI found there to be a noose, found Wallace wouldn't have known it was there until he was assigned to the garage, and btw there were a bunch of angry racists protesting their right to fly confederate flags.It all adds up to people seeing the noose and instead of thinking it was just a garage pull it was actually a message.  
they found a garage door pull, not a noose

Racist thinking
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 24, 2020, 08:52:40 AM
That's more than a reach to call that rascist - that's a fabrication
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2020, 08:54:22 AM
Some people latch onto a story prematurely and then struggle to retain some version of the same story even after it is debunked, totally.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 24, 2020, 09:04:37 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbQ9UDoXYAAlO33?format=jpg&name=medium)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbQ9UD1XkAAy4Jh?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 24, 2020, 09:08:54 AM
BB great find,we're getting back the boy who cried wolf.When something real surfaces it will be dismissed whole sale because of the media's false alarms and need to get clicks
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 24, 2020, 09:12:02 AM
In other news, the number of restaurants not reopened around us is concerning, many of them have posted notices that they are permanently done.

One opened and has closed because two of their staff tested positive.

We peek in the nicer places that reopened and they have almost no one seated inside.  We dined at South City Kitchen the other day, their sister down the street Lure is not open, and they had a 20% surcharge on the menu that I questioned, it was basically to help the place out.  The server said he had been out of work 91 days.  I left a large cash tip.

A noodle place just opened and is quite good, we dined there last night.  A burger place opened just before this happened and they seem to be hanging in, the other burger place is still closed.  (The best burger place near us is open and crowded, again, limited parking and hard to get into.)

The French restaurant is open and has outdoor seating which is a bit close to a busy street but we dine outside preferably.

We go there for the atmosphere.
This is what pie in the sky looney tunes people like OAM have no idea about. The economic crunch hasn’t even begun to truly hit home yet. There is an apocalypse of mortgage foreclosures, renter evictions, and small businesses shuttering their doors coming unless the federal govt steps in and pushes forward some kind of debt/rent forgiveness plan. 

I just did a build out on a second location on of one of the top rated restaurants in the entire country on TripAdvisor right before all this coronavirus hit. The original is a tiny little place but it’s super popular- always packed and the owner was showing me emails from ESPN, Fox Sports, CNN, and MGM Studios- all tried booking the place for private vip dinner parties and the owner told them all no because the place was so tiny and didn’t have a bar.

His rent on the shoebox was $10k+ a month. And we’re talking a place that’s dining room area isn’t even 500 sq ft. He was so busy and turning over the tables and cash flowing so much, it wasn’t a problem.

Well he went to open another, much larger location with a bar and spent a small fortune to do so, and his rent is close to $30k a month on the second location- and the landlord is a massive company that owns a prime piece of retail in an in demand location so they gave 
him just 1 month of free rent. Takes a lot longer than 1 month to do a build-out. Obviously. And this guy was also in the process of hiring 50+ new people to work at the new restaurant. Coronavirus hit, we stopped construction and he still owes me a chuck of money - and he’s been closed for 3 months and has been paying his landlord at the new location $30k a month for not being open- and another $10k a month at the other location. And these landlords are huge companies that own prime real estate and give no breaks. He’s got to pay, he’s personally guaranteed the lease and put up his other restaurant as collateral. The rental agreement is like 70 pages- insane, ironclad all in favor of the landlord. 

He’s shuttered his doors for 3 months, he’s been paying $40k a month for 3 straight months to landlords- so that’s $120,000+ all for the privilege of not being open, he’s got 0 cash flow, and he didn’t take the PPP bc it’s really risky for restaurants apparently- he’s been paying his staff out of pocket mainly bc it’s a very small staff and they are like a family. 

He finally reopened a couple weeks ago, and if another lockdown happens it’ll probably wipe him out. 

This is one guy but there are literally TENS and tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of small business owners like him all over this country teetering on the brink and they all employee people- and it’s a big chain reaction if they all go down. And the fed isn’t standing behind them propping them up in secret with zero oversight with a printing press to bail them out like they are doing with big business/Wall Street/PE. Why do you think the stock market isn’t in the tank? The FED is juicing the market. The FED fired up the printing presses, cut interest rates to zero, went on a buying spree and bought up junk bonds, mortgage backed securities, and has been using it’s emergency lending facility in secret to prop up the mega-business/wall street/PE in the the last 3-4 months. Zero oversight, zero cap- literally unlimited spending. At one point in March for almost half a week they were buying as much $75 billion A DAY in treasuries alone. $75 billion a day.

Yet the PPP and EIDL for small business was capped and needed to go through the process of getting funding added. Go figure. Lol. And not to mention those loans all go through the banking system and not directly to end user- which means the banks made billions and billions in free money just for processing paper work. 

IMF is predicting the US economy to contract by 8% in 2020.

Shit hasn’t even begun to gotten real yet. This is going to be BAD. And if there are any more lockdowns it will go from BAD to end of times. It’ll be the Great Depression all f****ing over again and an entire generation of young people will be lost.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2020, 09:15:48 AM
Yup, the hospitality industry will be hammered, which means the folks to whom they pay rent will be hammered ... and that will spiral badly.

Right now a lot of stuff is in abeyance, but that delays the inevitable.

I expect new construction of places will stop breaking ground.  That hammers that industry, which hammers the lumber producers, copper producers, window producers, the construction workers ...

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 09:16:45 AM
I think people in general struggle to see things from other points of view.  They find a noose in the garage while people are flying confederate flags overhead - it is perfectly fine to be concerned about that.  There seems to be a tendency to deny common sense in an effort to "prove" that obviously this is just no big deal and no one should ever think it's a big deal, despite common sense and history.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2020, 09:17:54 AM
It wasn't a noose, plain and simple, it was a garage door pull.

To claim this was intended to be some racist statement is absurd.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 09:20:00 AM
This is what pie in the sky looney tunes people like OAM have no idea about. The economic crunch hasn’t even begun to truly hit home yet. There is an apocalypse of mortgage foreclosures, renter evictions, and small businesses shuttering their doors coming unless the federal govt steps in and pushes forward some kind of debt/rent forgiveness plan.

I just did a build out on a second location on of one of the top rated restaurants in the entire country on TripAdvisor right before all this coronavirus hit. The original is a tiny little place but it’s super popular- always packed and the owner was showing me emails from ESPN, Fox Sports, CNN, and MGM Studios- all tried booking the place for private vip dinner parties and the owner told them all no because the place was so tiny and didn’t have a bar.

His rent on the shoebox was $10k+ a month. And we’re talking a place that’s dining room area isn’t even 500 sq ft. He was so busy and turning over the tables and cash flowing so much, it wasn’t a problem.

Well he went to open another, much larger location with a bar and spent a small fortune to do so, and his rent is close to $30k a month on the second location- and the landlord is a massive company that owns a prime piece of retail in an in demand location so they gave
him just 1 month of free rent. Takes a lot longer than 1 month to do a build-out. Obviously. And this guy was also in the process of hiring 50+ new people to work at the new restaurant. Coronavirus hit, we stopped construction and he still owes me a chuck of money - and he’s been closed for 3 months and has been paying his landlord at the new location $30k a month for not being open- and another $10k a month at the other location. And these landlords are huge companies that own prime real estate and give no breaks. He’s got to pay, he’s personally guaranteed the lease and put up his other restaurant as collateral. The rental agreement is like 70 pages- insane, ironclad all in favor of the landlord.

He’s shuttered his doors for 3 months, he’s been paying $40k a month for 3 straight months to landlords- so that’s $120,000+ all for the privilege of not being open, he’s got 0 cash flow, and he didn’t take the PPP bc it’s really risky for restaurants apparently- he’s been paying his staff out of pocket mainly bc it’s a very small staff and they are like a family.

He finally reopened a couple weeks ago, and if another lockdown happens it’ll probably wipe him out.

This is one guy but there are literally TENS and tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of small business owners like him all over this country teetering on the brink and they all employee people- and it’s a big chain reaction if they all go down. And the fed isn’t standing behind them propping them up in secret with zero oversight with a printing press to bail them out like they are doing with big business/Wall Street/PE. Why do you think the stock market isn’t in the tank? The FED is juicing the market. The FED fired up the printing presses, cut interest rates to zero, went on a buying spree and bought up junk bonds, mortgage backed securities, and has been using it’s emergency lending facility in secret to prop up the mega-business/wall street/PE in the the last 3-4 months. Zero oversight, zero cap- literally unlimited spending. At one point in March for almost half a week they were buying as much $75 billion A DAY in treasuries alone. $75 billion a day.

Yet the PPP and EIDL for small business was capped and needed to go through the process of getting funding added. Go figure. Lol. And not to mention those loans all go through the banking system and not directly to end user- which means the banks made billions and billions in free money just for processing paper work.

IMF is predicting the US economy to contract by 8% in 2020.

Shit hasn’t even begun to gotten real yet. This is going to be BAD. And if there are any more lockdowns it will go from BAD to end of times. It’ll be the Great Depression all f****ing over again and an entire generation of young people will be lost.
I'm kind of a glass half full person.  I'm hopeful this will lead to fewer restrictions on food service, making it easier for people to open up food and drink service without all the overhead that drives up prices and makes eating out a pretty unattractive option.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2020, 09:22:33 AM
A large part of dining out is the experience of dining out, not getting take out from some place.

I don't really relish the notion of paying $30 for a dinner for one and bringing it home, even though it would be cheaper than dining in the restaurant.

Getting filled up isn't the point.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 09:24:14 AM
It wasn't a noose, plain and simple, it was a garage door pull.

To claim this was intended to be some racist statement is absurd.
A noose is a knot.  You put your hand through it, it's a garage door pull.  You put your head through it, you have a hanging.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2020, 09:29:11 AM
I think we all comprehend the obvious.

This was a garage door pull, not some racist statement.  

You couldn't get your head through it if you tried.

At some point, "we" collectively need to regain some semblance of balance and perspective and sensibility and stop harping on every statue and symbol as being pejorative and racist.

This is ridiculous.  It was NOT in any way a racist symbol.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 24, 2020, 09:33:51 AM
I'm kind of a glass half full person.  I'm hopeful this will lead to fewer restrictions on food service, making it easier for people to open up food and drink service without all the overhead that drives up prices and makes eating out a pretty unattractive option.
Yeah I’d say there’s a zero chance of that happening lol. That’s all done at the state and local level, and some states are just never going to change their processes and restrictions. 

In FL you should see the bullshit they have to go through with the state first,  and then the counties/cities in SoFL. Absolutely insane. 

To do anything in FL is a process. State makes it so hard. I know for comparisons sake it’s way easier in Michigan to do just about anything. I’m not sure if they’ve changed the law yet- but I know in the past that in Michigan you could be a commercial construction contractor and not even have to have a gc/builders license. They just assumed that you know what you’re doing. And then when you’re doing restaurants it’s pretty easy to get grease trap permit and approved.

In SoFL? Lol. Take you forever to get that approved if you’re in Dade county and you can’t do jackshit without gc/builder license in FL. They’ll throw you in jail here if they catch you working without one. In Michigan didn't even need one for commercial construction. Lol. And the test in Michigan is a bullshit 2 hr test that anyone can pass. The test in Florida is close to 19 hrs long and it’s hard as f**k. The average pass rate on first take is under 50% I want to say. And then you have to go through an FBI background check, and then you have to have your fingerprints filed with the state. And then you have to have a 660 FICO or better- and if you don’t they make you put up a $20,000 bond. And then you have to prove to the state you have 4 years experience in construction with 1 year of that as a foreman/project manager. In Michigan you don’t need to do any of this shit to get a license and the test is a 2 hr joke- and again you don’t even need a license if you're doing commercial.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 09:34:28 AM
(https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2020/06/bubba-wallace-noose-hoax-9.jpg)

Nooses can be loosened and unless you have a big bird sized head you could definitely get your head through that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 24, 2020, 09:35:39 AM
A large part of dining out is the experience of dining out, not getting take out from some place.

I don't really relish the notion of paying $30 for a dinner for one and bringing it home, even though it would be cheaper than dining in the restaurant.

Getting filled up isn't the point.
Ya plus the type of restaurant I was talking about- the food goes bad in containers and plastic bags. It’s not some cheap Chinese garbage. The restaurant had an incredible atmosphere and the food was fresh and amazing. It’s not the same at all taking it to good. Food gets mushy and no good and there’s no atmosphere.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 09:36:30 AM
Yeah I’d say there’s a zero chance of that happening lol. That’s all done at the state and local level, and some states are just never going to change their processes and restrictions.

In FL you should see the bullshit they have to go through with the state first,  and then the counties/cities in SoFL. Absolutely insane.

To do anything in FL is a process. State makes it so hard. I know for comparisons sake it’s way easier in Michigan to do just about anything. I’m not sure if they’ve changed the law yet- but I know in the past that in Michigan you could be a commercial construction contractor and not even have to have a gc/builders license. They just assumed that you know what you’re doing. And then when you’re doing restaurants it’s pretty easy to get grease trap permit and approved.

In SoFL? Lol. Take you forever to get that approved if you’re in Dade county and you can’t do jackshit without gc/builder license in FL. They’ll throw you in jail here if they catch you working without one. In Michigan didn't even need one for commercial construction. Lol. And the test in Michigan is a bullshit 2 hr test that anyone can pass. The test in Florida is close to 19 hrs long and it’s hard as f**k. The average pass rate on first take is under 50% I want to say. And then you have to go through an FBI background check, and then you have to have your fingerprints filed with the state. And then you have to have a 660 FICO or better- and if you don’t they make you put up a $20,000 bond. And then you have to prove to the state you have 4 years experience in construction with 1 year of that as a foreman/project manager. In Michigan you don’t need to do any of this shit to get a license and the test is a 2 hr joke- and again you don’t even need a license if you're doing commercial.
Hey, they started letting restaurants deliver alcohol here in Ohio.  I'm just saying, one can dream.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2020, 09:41:45 AM
Hey, they started letting restaurants deliver alcohol here in Ohio.  I'm just saying, one can dream. 
They started that here too, in Illinois. Only because of the China virus though. It will be repealed at some point.

MDot-

You think regulations are bad in Florida? Come work in Illinois for a year. Florida is a piece of cake compared to here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 09:41:49 AM
Ya plus the type of restaurant I was talking about- the food goes bad in containers and plastic bags. It’s not some cheap Chinese garbage. The restaurant had an incredible atmosphere and the food was fresh and amazing. It’s not the same at all taking it to good. Food gets mushy and no good and there’s no atmosphere.
Oh I quite agree.  A great restaurant with a great atmosphere is great.  But for every great dining experience I've had I've had three that were pretty meh.  But I also think the amount of restrictions leads to a lack of good options.  A pop up truck that serves good food and drinks could stop by a park and be awesome.  But by God we can't have open containers and we can't have just anyone selling alcohol and we must have restrictions on where trucks can operate.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2020, 09:46:14 AM
We have a lot of food trucks here, or used to when folks were working.  Construction in one place has displaced them, I have not seen them of late I think because few workers are coming into town.

I found them to be rather expensive, considering, and the food was OK but not fantastic, so I quit going.  Maybe they migrated to the 'burbs.

A new noodle place just opened near us and is quite tasty, dined there last night.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2020, 09:50:41 AM
I'm quite concerned at this time, with my company. New proposal opportunities have started to quiet down, particularly on the design side. That is scary, because it means construction will slow next year (it always lags design by a year). Which means very bad things for the economy here in Illinois. Even though I'm bailing out of this shithole state, I still need my business to run.

My partner wants me to start an office in Florida. I'm thinking I'd better get a move on.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2020, 10:39:20 AM
Yeah, I can see how we had a period of grace with the Fed and suspension of rent etc. and now .... bad things could spiral.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 24, 2020, 10:49:57 AM
Video of the "Solo Stove" fire pit. (https://bonfire.solostove.com/offer/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIh93_0Nea6gIV_C2tBh1zRAJkEAEYASAAEgKtAfD_BwE)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 24, 2020, 11:13:17 AM
Nooses can be loosened and unless you have a big bird sized head you could definitely get your head through that.
(https://i.imgur.com/w8n2LwL.png)
Better not head down to the docks then apparently the creeps are everywhere 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on June 24, 2020, 11:16:51 AM
https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/801/812/9812801.png
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 24, 2020, 11:17:07 AM
Could have been one of those pesky fishermen. 

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbR-SqJWkAMRtdJ.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 24, 2020, 11:37:11 AM
This is what pie in the sky looney tunes people like OAM have no idea about.

(https://i.imgur.com/XpHUr8I.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 11:50:05 AM
Video of the "Solo Stove" fire pit. (https://bonfire.solostove.com/offer/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIh93_0Nea6gIV_C2tBh1zRAJkEAEYASAAEgKtAfD_BwE)
Interesting do you have one?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2020, 11:56:30 AM
This shit is getting out of control.



MADISON, WIS. — Crowds outside the Wisconsin State Capitol tore down two statues, attacked a state senator, threw a Molotov cocktail into a government building and unsuccessfully tried to break into the Capitol building amid protests following the arrest of a Black man who shouted at restaurant customers through a megaphone while carrying a baseball bat.

Police officers inside the Capitol used pepper spray against protesters who were trying to gain entry into the historic center of state government, successfully repelling them, Madison police said.

Gov. Tony Evers on Wednesday said he was prepared to activate the Wisconsin National Guard to protect state properties in the wake of the violence.

“What happened in Madison last night presented a stark contrast from the peaceful protests we have seen across our state in recent weeks, including significant damage to state property,” Evers said in a statement.

The violence in Madison on Tuesday started after Madison police arrested a protester who came to a restaurant across the street from the Capitol talking through a megaphone with a bat on his shoulder. Video released by Madison police shows the man (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSgI0vCoLMY) talking through the megaphone while walking around the restaurant’s outdoor patio. He goes inside and paces through the restaurant with the bat on his shoulder, saying he’s “disturbing” the restaurant and talking about God and the police before walking out.


On another video released by police (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhtbCnLXlhc), as many as five officers can be seen taking the man to the sidewalk and carrying him to a police squad car after he initially resisted arrest. Police said the man was able to escape from the squad car before being tackled as he attempted to escape.



Police said a group of 200 to 300 people gathered and entered a private condominium building, where they surrounded a towing vehicle — forcing the driver to abandon it. The crowd broke windows in multiple buildings, threw a Molotov cocktail into the city-county building and brought down the statues on the grounds of the Capitol.

Protesters chanting for the release of the man who’d been arrested also broke glass at the Tommy Thompson Center, named after the state’s former Republican governor, and smashed windows and lights at the state Capitol.

Early Wednesday, police in riot gear worked to clear a crowd of about 100 people that remained in the area.


One of the statues toppled, decapitated and dragged into a lake about a half-mile away was of Civil War Col. Hans Christian Heg. He was an anti-slavery activist and leader of an anti-slave catcher militia in Wisconsin who who fought for the Union and died from injuries suffered during the Battle of Chickamauga.



The other statue taken down from its pedestal and dragged in the street outside the Capitol represents Wisconsin’s motto of “Forward.” The statue had been previously vandalized in past protests with paint thrown on it and graffiti spray painted on and around it.



“Forward” was first installed 125 years ago, but replaced with a bronze replica in 1998. It is placed prominently outside the Capitol, facing the University of Wisconsin campus and the street lined with bars, restaurants and small businesses. That corridor has been the target of much of the vandalism since the death of George Floyd, who died on May 25 in Minneapolis after a white police officer used his knee to pin down the handcuffed Black man’s neck even after Floyd stopped moving.


The destruction followed similar unrest nationwide following Floyd’s death, but in other cities statues of Confederate soldiers and other symbols of slavery were destroyed.

Late Tuesday in Madison, Democratic state Sen. Tim Carpenter was assaulted after taking a cellphone video of protesters. Carpenter posted video (https://twitter.com/TimCarpenterMKE/status/1275716467007328258) he was recording before being assaulted.



“Punched/kicked in the head, neck, ribs,” Carpenter tweeted around 4 a.m. “Maybe concussion, socked in left eye is little blurry, sore neck & ribs. 8-10 people attacked me. Innocent people are going to get killed. Capitol locked- stuck in office.Stop violence nowPlz!”


The Republican leader of the state Assembly called the protesters who knocked down the statues “thugs.”

“This is absolutely despicable. I am saddened at the cowardice of Madison officials to deal with these thugs,”



Assembly Speaker Robin Vos tweeted as the statues were being torn down.



Vos also questioned why Evers, a Democrat, had not intervened to stop the destruction that took place on state property.



Evers said Wednesday that no violence will be tolerated and those responsible for what happened Tuesday will be held accountable.


“We also cannot allow ourselves to forget the reason why these protests began: because of the murder of George Floyd, of Breonna Taylor, of the many Black lives taken before them, and because racism and structural inequality still pervade this country,” Evers said. “Our cause and our purpose must continue to be the pursuit of the promise of an equitable, just, and fair state and country, and we cannot delay delivering on these promises any longer.”



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 12:01:05 PM
Tear down Confederate statues.  All of them.  Tomorrow.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2020, 12:06:03 PM
Destroy them all?  Tomorrow?  Even the ones on private lands on on national battlefields?

Stone Mountain?  Destroy he carving?

Fascinating.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2020, 12:06:55 PM
Whoever, in a circumstance described in subsection (b), willfully injures or destroys, or attempts to injure or destroy, any structure, plaque, statue, or other monument on public property commemorating the service of any person or persons in the armed forces of the United States shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.

(b)A circumstance described in this subsection is that—
(1)
in committing the offense described in subsection (a), the defendant travels or causes another to travel in interstate or foreign commerce, or uses the mail or an instrumentality of interstate or foreign commerce; or
(2)
the structure, plaque, statue, or other monument described in subsection (a) is located on property owned by, or under the jurisdiction of, the Federal Government.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 24, 2020, 12:14:06 PM
"Sad thing I'm on their side for peaceful demonstrations — am a Gay Progressive Dem Senator served 36 years in the legislature."


-Tim Carpenter, D-WI.

Hoist by his own petard. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2020, 12:16:49 PM
Evers said Wednesday that no violence will be tolerated and those responsible for what happened Tuesday will be held accountable.

arrest as many as possible - they get their day in court
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2020, 12:18:15 PM
Maybe if "we" tear down all the Confederate statues the mob would be appeased and satisfied .... or not.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2020, 12:19:33 PM
Whoever, in a circumstance described in subsection (b), willfully injures or destroys, or attempts to injure or destroy, any structure, plaque, statue, or other monument on public property commemorating the service of any person or persons in the armed forces of the United States shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.

(b)A circumstance described in this subsection is that—
(1)
in committing the offense described in subsection (a), the defendant travels or causes another to travel in interstate or foreign commerce, or uses the mail or an instrumentality of interstate or foreign commerce; or
(2)
the structure, plaque, statue, or other monument described in subsection (a) is located on property owned by, or under the jurisdiction of, the Federal Government.


we have plenty of good laws on the books.  No need for more.  Just enforce the laws.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2020, 12:19:47 PM
Maybe if "we" tear down all the Confederate statues the mob would be appeased and satisfied .... or not.
NOT
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 24, 2020, 12:20:41 PM
Tear down Confederate statues.  All of them.  Tomorrow.


There is one on the Hilltop in West Columbus. Go for it. Be the change that you want to see.

You can topple the remaining Christopher Columbus statue at Easton on your way.

There are a lot of cameras at both locations though, so don't forget to bring your Antifa mask.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 12:24:28 PM
Destroy them all?  Tomorrow?  Even the ones on private lands on on national battlefields?

Stone Mountain?  Destroy he carving?

Fascinating.
Yes yes and yes. As long as we celebrate slavers and traitors, tough to argue there is much value in statues.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2020, 12:25:46 PM
This statue is across the street from me.  It got hit with some graffiti that was cleaned off in a day, which surprised me.

(https://i.imgur.com/Dvz5c14.jpg)

It's a Confederate soldier in a pose of making ready to fire and being restrained by "Peace".

It was originally emplaced as a symbol that the war is over (something that an important concept at the time).

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2020, 12:27:25 PM
To think all that could be done "tomorrow" legally is absurd.

To think it would make an iota of difference is absurd.

To imagine it is relevant to anything is absurd.  We might as well get rid of garage door handles while we're at it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 12:28:06 PM
Maybe if "we" tear down all the Confederate statues the mob would be appeased and satisfied .... or not.
It's not about satisfying the mob. It's about doing the right thing. The dumbest thing I've seen is when people clutch their pearls about say, a statue of Grant being knocked over. That's one of the "good" statues, they claim. I claim they should all be good statues.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 12:29:33 PM

There is one on the Hilltop in West Columbus. Go for it. Be the change that you want to see.

You can topple the remaining Christopher Columbus statue at Easton on your way.

There are a lot of cameras at both locations though, so don't forget to bring your Antifa mask.
It's funny...one of my friends on Facebook posted a picture of it and asked that it be torn down. We can only hope the people do what the government is afraid to do.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 12:32:17 PM
To think all that could be done "tomorrow" legally is absurd.

To think it would make an iota of difference is absurd.

To imagine it is relevant to anything is absurd.  We might as well get rid of garage door handles while we're at it.
Luckily Lincoln disagreed with you. Otherwise I'd have to go through customs to visit Georgia.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 24, 2020, 12:32:35 PM
can we start a new group called All Statues Matter

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2020, 12:35:32 PM
Tear down Confederate statues.  All of them.  Tomorrow.
We should all be killed, because Indians?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2020, 12:36:18 PM
The notion that this could be done "tomorrow" is clearly laughable nonsense, a fair bit of which is cropping up around here.

The notion that is should be done in certain public places over time is rational.  I doubt the carving on Stone Mountain will disappear very soon though.

There of course are myriad statues in National Battlefields.  They serve a pedagogical purpose (even if some are misplaced).  And they are government property.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2020, 12:37:55 PM
Tear down Confederate statues.  All of them.  Tomorrow.
One of the statues toppled, decapitated and dragged into a lake about a half-mile away was of Civil War Col. Hans Christian Heg. He was an anti-slavery activist and leader of an anti-slave catcher militia in Wisconsin who who fought for the Union and died from injuries suffered during the Battle of Chickamauga.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2020, 12:39:02 PM
Tear down Confederate statues.  All of them.  Tomorrow.
The other statue taken down from its pedestal and dragged in the street outside the Capitol represents Wisconsin’s motto of “Forward.” The statue had been previously vandalized in past protests with paint thrown on it and graffiti spray painted on and around it. “Forward” was first installed 125 years ago, but replaced with a bronze replica in 1998. It is placed prominently outside the Capitol, facing the University of Wisconsin campus and the street lined with bars, restaurants and small businesses.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2020, 12:43:30 PM
I wonder if they employ a NOOSE to topple those statues ....

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 12:45:38 PM
One of the statues toppled, decapitated and dragged into a lake about a half-mile away was of Civil War Col. Hans Christian Heg. He was an anti-slavery activist and leader of an anti-slave catcher militia in Wisconsin who who fought for the Union and died from injuries suffered during the Battle of Chickamauga.

Like I said, saying this is a "good" statue concedes the point. If your ok with slaver statues, then who cares if they stand or not. You have to read the fine print to know if your celebrating evil.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 24, 2020, 12:47:17 PM
It's funny...one of my friends on Facebook posted a picture of it and asked that it be torn down. We can only hope the people do what the government is afraid to do.
So what is stopping you? Do you want "the people" to do what you and the govt are afraid to do?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 24, 2020, 01:03:06 PM
To think all that could be done "tomorrow" legally is absurd.
He is clearly not calling for it to be done "legally."

What is the over/under on the number of Antifa/BLM types that would get crushed and/or blown up in their efforts to remove the face off of Stone Mountain?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 01:07:12 PM
So what is stopping you? Do you want "the people" to do what you and the govt are afraid to do?
How did you know I haven't?

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20170822/vandals-decapitate-confederate-soldier-statue-at-camp-chase-cemetery
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 24, 2020, 01:22:29 PM
How did you know I haven't?

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20170822/vandals-decapitate-confederate-soldier-statue-at-camp-chase-cemetery
Because if your corny suburban country music listening ass ever set one foot in the Hilltop, you'd get your ass kicked faster than the "gay progressive senator" from Wisconsin.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 01:31:48 PM
Because if your corny suburban country music listening ass ever set one foot in the Hilltop, you'd get your ass kicked faster than the "gay progressive senator" from Wisconsin.
Lol it's the hilltop I doubt that. They might cut out my catalytic converter though.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2020, 01:31:56 PM
Let's play nice fellas.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2020, 01:32:54 PM
Lol it's the hilltop I doubt that. They might cut out my catalytic converter though.
That actually happens in parts of Chicago quite a bit. They are worth a lot of money.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2020, 01:34:00 PM
So.. History. Professors at most schools have been trying to re-write it for years now. Maybe we should just get rid of it altogether.


Along with the professors.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 24, 2020, 01:36:05 PM
Lol it's the hilltop I doubt that. They might cut out my catalytic converter though.
Yeah, no one ever gets assaulted in the Hilltop. Lol. Particularly not some easy mark with a nice ride and a fat wallet.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on June 24, 2020, 01:40:23 PM
I use the Palomar knot as I have poor dexterity after breaking my left thumb many years ago.  Hard time twisting a lamp switch, tying line, etc.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 01:42:20 PM
So.. History. Professors at most schools have been trying to re-write it for years now. Maybe we should just get rid of it altogether.


Along with the professors.
The Tulsa Massacre of 1921 didn't make the Oklahoma school curriculum until this year. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 24, 2020, 01:45:17 PM
Well if we are going to do it- let’s be fair and thorough.  Let’s start with Yale- a name which can easily be traced to slavery.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 01:45:19 PM
Yeah, no one ever gets assaulted in the Hilltop. Lol. Particularly not some easy mark with a nice ride and a fat wallet.
I'd stay away from Wedgwood. Though I probably know half the people who live there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 01:46:04 PM
Well if we are going to do it- let’s be fair and thorough.  Let’s start with Yale- a name which can easily be traced to slavery. 
Sounds good to me
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 24, 2020, 01:52:03 PM
Sounds good to
https://www.news18.com/news/buzz/cancelyale-university-founder-called-out-for-being-a-racist-slave-trader-in-east-india-company-2679853.html

Might happen.   
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2020, 02:03:03 PM
We should all be killed, because Indians?
Indians (native Americans) were also slave owners
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2020, 02:04:03 PM
Let's play nice fellas.
yes, you are allowed only peaceful protests
no acts of violence 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2020, 02:05:55 PM
The Tulsa Massacre of 1921 didn't make the Oklahoma school curriculum until this year.
I've heard that Japanese school history books have no account of Pearl Harbor
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 24, 2020, 02:09:48 PM
I'd stay away from Wedgwood. Though I probably know half the people who live there.
You'd stay away from the Blackest part of a White majority ghetto? Well that's racist.

I have no doubt that you are indeed the most gangsta lawyer on all of New Albany. Lol.

Just don't forget to go down there unarmed, as you desecrate a civil war era POW cemetery.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 02:15:30 PM
You'd stay away from the Blackest part of a White majority ghetto? Well that's racist.

I have no doubt that you are indeed the most gangsta lawyer on all of New Albany. Lol.

Just don't forget to go down there unarmed, as you desecrate a civil war era POW cemetery.
I'll be sure to leave a note that we should honor the idea that black people should be owned and sold and raped. You know, so people won't get their feelings hurt.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 24, 2020, 02:27:39 PM
I'll be sure to leave a note that we should honor the idea that black people should be owned and sold and raped. You know, so people won't get their feelings hurt.

Dude, you just said that the Hilltop is completely harmless aside from the one little tiny apartment complex where most of the black people live. 

And no, I don't buy for a second that you are friends with "half" the people that live there. As if some New Albany lawyer is going to drive halfway around the outerbelt in order to hang out in a crack den infested with bed bugs, roaches and rodents, where more than half of the residents are somali immigrants that don't speak any English. That's about as believable as your implication that you were part of a mob that tore down the statue at Camp Chase. 

If you are going to invent an internet persona for yourself, at least select one that is moderately believable. 

You are completely full of shit. End of story. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 02:36:21 PM
Dude, you just said that the Hilltop is completely harmless aside from the one little tiny apartment complex where most of the black people live.

And no, I don't buy for a second that you are friends with "half" the people that live there. As if some New Albany lawyer is going to drive halfway around the outerbelt in order to hang out in a crack den infested with bed bugs, roaches and rodents, where more than half of the residents are somali immigrants that don't speak any English. That's about as believable as your implication that you were part of a mob that tore down the statue at Camp Chase.

If you are going to invent an internet persona for yourself, at least select one that is moderately believable.

You are completely full of shit. End of story.
Most of the Somali community under the age of 30 speak English quite well. Better than my corny fake country suburb ass anyway.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 24, 2020, 02:45:54 PM
I bet that you wouldn't even have the cajones to drive past wedgewood with your doors locked, and your windows rolled up. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 02:56:08 PM
I bet that you wouldn't even have the cajones to drive past wedgewood with your doors locked, and your windows rolled up.
Probably. I'm the guy so lame I had to come up with a fake persona and of all the options landed on public defender in Ohio. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 24, 2020, 02:59:28 PM
I bet that you also lack the cajones to drive past camp chase with your doors locked, and your windows rolled up. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 03:00:49 PM
I bet that you also lack the cajones to drive past camp chase with your doors locked, and your windows rolled up.
Well of course. There's a ghost. I'm not dumb.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 24, 2020, 03:42:41 PM
Columbus police statistics show the Hilltop leads the city in violent crimes — including murder, felonious assault and robberies — and in police calls. There are problems with drug addiction, which also fuels prostitution and property and other crimes.

You must be a pretty rough MF in order to be rolling around with half the occupants of wedgewood, which is the murder capital of the entire Hilltop. You ought to change your moniker to Maximum Gangsta. Lolol. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2020, 03:44:00 PM
Note: These words are not mine. They are the words of a Chicago pastor, from the West side. I've heard him before, on violence.


“A line was crossed,” said a broken-hearted Rev. Ira Acree of Greater St. John Bible Church on the West Side to a gathering of angry and distressed mourners from the neighborhood. “This 3-year-old baby lost his life. … We say Black lives matter, but we’re here to say Black baby lives matter more.”
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2020, 03:45:07 PM
Columbus police statistics show the Hilltop leads the city in violent crimes — including murder, felonious assault and robberies — and in police calls. There are problems with drug addiction, which also fuels prostitution and property and other crimes.

You must be a pretty rough MF in order to be rolling around with half the occupants of wedgewood, which is the murder capital of the entire Hilltop. You ought to change your moniker to Maximum Gangsta. Lolol.
If I'm not mistaken, Max is a public defender. He probably does know half of them, this being the case.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 24, 2020, 04:00:26 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/U3BU0K0.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 24, 2020, 04:01:50 PM
Sam might "know" them, but he claims to be "friends" with half of them, which is just comical. Even the people that live there probably can't even name half of the other occupants, let alone befriend them.

Columbus’ deadliest location: Hilltop apartment complex focus of efforts by police, residents

It started on a wretched, cold, rainy night in January when two young friends were shot to death while sitting in a car in the parking lot at the Wedgewood Village Apartments complex.
Their unsolved homicides are believed to be connected to a robbery, Columbus police homicide detectives say. One of the two victims, Jawuan Lamont Wade Reynolds, 22, was a West Side rapper who went by the name Fam Staxx. Before he died, a video he posted on YouTube had the eerily prophetic title “Killumbus.”
Homicide detectives have investigated three other fatal shootings at the sprawling complex on the Hilltop that claimed five other lives in 2017. The seven slayings at the apartment complex last year make it the deadliest location in the city’s deadliest year on record.
And yet, there are glimmers of hope.
It has been relatively quiet since the seventh homicide at Wedgewood occurred on Aug. 4, when Cody Virgil Nichols, 22, was found fatally shot in the hallway of an Eakin Road unit.

Google Review.


This place is the worst of the worst.Just check the crime in the area. Drug deals and shootings on a daily basis.Cars broken into ,even high crime during the day. The whole place smells like urine . People doing drugs ,urinating and having sex in the laundry rooms .Trash is always over flowing into the parking lots. Rats and the smell in the summer is horrible . I don't see why the health department doesn't shut them down.Bedbugs,roaches,excessive noise all night long. They ask that you put complaints in writing but nothing is ever done .

Don't piss Hilltop Sam off. He is well connected. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 24, 2020, 04:08:10 PM
We should all be killed, because Indians?
Cleveland Indians I'm on board with that
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2020, 04:14:22 PM
and the Hotlanta Braves!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 24, 2020, 04:21:20 PM
Um no '95 series - bastages
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 24, 2020, 04:23:33 PM
Sam might "know" them, but he claims to be "friends" with half of them, which is just comical. Even the people that live there probably can't even name half of the other occupants, let alone befriend them.
I'd stay away from Wedgwood. Though I probably know half the people who live there.
I don't think he called them his homeys, bro.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 24, 2020, 04:32:16 PM
yes, you are allowed only peaceful protests
no acts of violence
I don't know you anymore!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2020, 04:34:16 PM
I don't think he called them his homeys, bro.
You're such an engineer.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 04:36:49 PM
Columbus police statistics show the Hilltop leads the city in violent crimes — including murder, felonious assault and robberies — and in police calls. There are problems with drug addiction, which also fuels prostitution and property and other crimes.

You must be a pretty rough MF in order to be rolling around with half the occupants of wedgewood, which is the murder capital of the entire Hilltop. You ought to change your moniker to Maximum Gangsta. Lolol.
The most scared I've been walking around a neighborhood was years ago when I worked for the prosecutor's office. We went out to a few places to talk to witnesses (including one guy who got shot through the bottom of his jaw). We certainly stuck out, but it was no big deal. Then a cop recognized us and offered to tag along. Brother, I've never felt an entire place turn on us faster than when we started walking around with that cop.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 24, 2020, 04:36:55 PM
I don't think he called them his homeys, bro.
Well okay. But let's not forget that he suggested that he could have been part of a midnight flash mob in Central Hilltop.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 04:38:26 PM
Cleveland Indians I'm on board with that
The way they are going they might kill off the Indians and everyone else too
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 24, 2020, 06:09:16 PM
Does anyone here have Disney+? 

They're doing Hamilton starting July 3.

As a student of revolutionary history, I found it quite accurate regarding Alexander Hamilton--and I say that as someone who wasn't a big fan of his effect on our nation historically. And from a theatrical perspective, it's quite a good show.

I plan to have my oldest watch it, and it'll be nice to revisit it with my wife since it's been a few years since we saw it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on June 24, 2020, 06:09:38 PM
The most scared I've been walking around a neighborhood was years ago when I worked for the prosecutor's office. We went out to a few places to talk to witnesses (including one guy who got shot through the bottom of his jaw). We certainly stuck out, but it was no big deal. Then a cop recognized us and offered to tag along. Brother, I've never felt an entire place turn on us faster than when we started walking around with that cop.
I did something similar when i did some PD cases before I was in a DAs office.  It's very real.  I once ate a client's wife's pasta casserole dish while sitting on milk crates in an alley as we discussed his case.  The environments which people choose or have to live are very humbling.    The people you meet, the lives they live.  Some are incredibly gracious and wonderful people while others were pure evil.  It felt like another universe, yet it was 5 miles from my modest apartment.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 24, 2020, 06:27:44 PM
Interesting do you have one?
Nope.  Just saw it and remembered the conversation you started.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 24, 2020, 06:31:36 PM
Destroy them all?  Tomorrow?  Even the ones on private lands on on national battlefields?

Stone Mountain?  Destroy he carving?

Fascinating.
Do you think that, someday, a majority of Georgia citizens will be embarrassed by the Stone Mountain carving and want it blasted off?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 06:35:14 PM
Does anyone here have Disney+?

They're doing Hamilton starting July 3.

As a student of revolutionary history, I found it quite accurate regarding Alexander Hamilton--and I say that as someone who wasn't a big fan of his effect on our nation historically. And from a theatrical perspective, it's quite a good show.

I plan to have my oldest watch it, and it'll be nice to revisit it with my wife since it's been a few years since we saw it.
I had it but canceled because there wasn't a tremendous amount of content. I've never seen Hamilton, maybe I'll reup for a month. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 24, 2020, 06:37:50 PM
I've heard that Japanese school history books have no account of Pearl Harbor
I don't know about that, but Japan still does not admit that there was anything like a "Rape of Nanking."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 24, 2020, 10:27:53 PM
Ordered Thai delivery from a place that got 4.5 stars on yelp in Rancho Santa Margarita. 

Remind me not to trust other lily white people's opinions on Asian cuisines :03:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 24, 2020, 10:29:37 PM
Ordered Thai delivery from a place that got 4.5 stars on yelp in Rancho Santa Margarita.

Remind me not to trust other lily white people's opinions on Asian cuisines :03:
Oh that is unfortunate. Usually those stars can be OK, unless you're kinda out there. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 24, 2020, 10:33:55 PM
Ordered Thai delivery from a place that got 4.5 stars on yelp in Rancho Santa Margarita.

Remind me not to trust other lily white people's opinions on Asian cuisines :03:
Man I can only dream of good Thai food. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2020, 10:51:54 PM
Man I can only dream of good Thai food.
You can make it, if you dream it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 24, 2020, 11:09:11 PM
Ordered Thai delivery from a place that got 4.5 stars on yelp in Rancho Santa Margarita.

Remind me not to trust other lily white people's opinions on Asian cuisines :03:


Is "Rancho Santa Margarita" a lily white community? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: rolltidefan on June 24, 2020, 11:15:46 PM
Does anyone here have Disney+?

They're doing Hamilton starting July 3.

As a student of revolutionary history, I found it quite accurate regarding Alexander Hamilton--and I say that as someone who wasn't a big fan of his effect on our nation historically. And from a theatrical perspective, it's quite a good show.

I plan to have my oldest watch it, and it'll be nice to revisit it with my wife since it's been a few years since we saw it.
We got Disney+. It’s nice for Disney movies. Especially if you have kids. Not much original/new programs. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 24, 2020, 11:49:26 PM

Is "Rancho Santa Margarita" a lily white community?
Yes. At least by SoCal standards.

It's where Coto De Caza, made famous by the original real housewives, is located.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 25, 2020, 12:24:00 AM
Yes. At least by SoCal standards.

It's where Coto De Caza, made famous by the original real housewives, is located.
The 2010 United States Census (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_States_Census)[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rancho_Santa_Margarita,_California#cite_note-11) reported that Rancho Santa Margarita had a population of 47,853. The population density (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_density) was 3,683.1 people per square mile (1,422.0/km²).
The racial makeup of Rancho Santa Margarita was: 
37,421 (78.2%) White (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_(U.S._Census)) (67.0% Non-Hispanic White),[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rancho_Santa_Margarita,_California#cite_note-quick-5)
887 (1.9%) African American (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American_(U.S._Census)),
182 (0.4%) Native American (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_(U.S._Census)),
4,350 (9.1%) Asian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_(U.S._Census)),
102 (0.2%) Pacific Islander (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Islander_(U.S._Census)),
2,674 (5.6%) from other races (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(United_States_Census)), and
2,237 (4.7%) from two or more races.
Hispanic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_(U.S._Census)) or Latino (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latino_(U.S._Census)) of any race were 8,902 persons (18.6%).


So I would assume by "lily white" you are referring to non-Hispanic Whites, who make up only 67% of the population.

Is it safe to assume that the demographics of those who leave star reviews are similar to the demographics of the city? Or do you postulate that non-Hispanic Whites are over represented in the yelp starring system?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 25, 2020, 12:41:50 AM
I'm saying that places like Irvine, Westminster, or Garden Grove are known for better Asian restaurants. Because the people there have enough diversity to choose from that they know what the food is supposed to taste like and won't inflate scores for crap.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 25, 2020, 01:13:48 AM
Gotcha. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 25, 2020, 01:36:46 AM

Is "Rancho Santa Margarita" a lily white community?
Speaking of Disney+, "Rancho Santa Margarita" is Spanish for "Rancho Relaxo".
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2020, 06:58:47 AM
https://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-news/armed-protesters-removed-from-wendy-where-rayshard-brooks-was-killed/nHvfdBIEgycZfdMcnsxkxL/ (https://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-news/armed-protesters-removed-from-wendy-where-rayshard-brooks-was-killed/nHvfdBIEgycZfdMcnsxkxL/)

I'm not sure why armed protesters would "occupy" a burned out Wendy's, but they are gone now magically, maybe boredom got to them.

Boredom is the enemy of protesting, unless some new event sparks more outrage.

Statues now are the enemy, even in Britain.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 25, 2020, 07:28:10 AM
You can make it, if you dream it.
I do and I enjoy making it.  Still, I see the the videos of Thai food being sold on the street in Thailand, often times by someone with the bare minimum of cooking equipment, and I dream of something similar here.  Just getting good noodles is itself a real effort.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 25, 2020, 09:26:14 AM
There's a Thai place across the street and down a block. Sometimes I stop in and ask for noodles to go. The owner says "You're gonna give it another shot, eh? Why not just sit down here and eat?". 

I just nod and make my way out.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 25, 2020, 10:54:24 AM
12 years old. 1:15 AM. What could go wrong?


A 12-year-old girl playing with friends outside suffered a graze wound in a shooting early Thursday in the West Englewood neighborhood, police said.


The girl was on the sidewalk in the 6800 block of South Wolcott Avenue about 1:15 a.m. when someone in a white SUV drove past and someone in the vehicle fired shots, according to a police media notification. The girl felt pain when she suffered a graze wound to the lower back and was taken to Comer Children’s Hospital, where she was in good condition.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 25, 2020, 01:25:31 PM
WASHINGTON (AP) — Nearly 1.1 million coronavirus relief payments totaling some $1.4 billion went to dead people, a government watchdog reported Thursday.

More than 130 million so-called economic impact payments were sent to taxpayers as part of the $2.4 trillion coronavirus relief package enacted in March. The Government Accountability Office, Congress’ auditing arm, cited the number of erroneous payments to deceased taxpayers in its report on the government programs.

While the government has asked survivors to return the money, it’s not clear they have to.

The errors occurred mainly because of a lag in reporting data on who is deceased — a lapse that tax experts say is almost inevitable.


https://apnews.com/88dcc4f977f8ddeed438a8f173008b5c (https://apnews.com/88dcc4f977f8ddeed438a8f173008b5c)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 25, 2020, 01:43:49 PM
(https://a3.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2020%2F0625%2Fr712531_2_1296x729_16-9.jpg&w=1140&cquality=40&format=jpg)

NASCAR released pic of the noose, er, garage door handle.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 25, 2020, 02:18:26 PM
I have a couple of questions about it...



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 25, 2020, 02:20:45 PM
I have a couple of questions about it...


  • Why the world would you use a slipknot as a garage pull? The idea of a slip knot is that it tightens under load, meaning each time you pull the garage door down you'd theoretically be tightening the knot on your hand. I recognize that perhaps there isn't enough load to cause it to tighten, but it seems like the wrong knot for the job.
  • Whoever tied it, why would they choose a slip knot? Is it the only knot they know? If so, where exactly did they learn it?


Hey man Klansmen need jobs too.

"Can you tie a knot?"

"Absolutely I can!"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 25, 2020, 02:24:32 PM
I have a couple of questions about it...


  • Why the world would you use a slipknot as a garage pull? The idea of a slip knot is that it tightens under load, meaning each time you pull the garage door down you'd theoretically be tightening the knot on your hand. I recognize that perhaps there isn't enough load to cause it to tighten, but it seems like the wrong knot for the job.
  • Whoever tied it, why would they choose a slip knot? Is it the only knot they know? If so, where exactly did they learn it?



It is probably a loop knot, which looks like a noose, but it doesn't "slip." 

That rope looks awfully new for one that has been hanging in an outdoor garage for at least a year. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 25, 2020, 02:26:01 PM
ESPN today was saying that it wasn't there at the start of the race weekend last October, but was there at the end of the race weekend. So it's only 6 months.

If the garage has been mostly closed? Maybe it could still look pretty new.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 25, 2020, 02:27:31 PM
ESPN today was saying that it wasn't there at the start of the race weekend last October, but was there at the end of the race weekend. So it's only 6 months.

If the garage has been mostly closed? Maybe it could still look pretty new.



Could be. 

Luckily they released the photo promptly, eliminating any possibility of foul play. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 25, 2020, 02:30:57 PM
I have a couple of questions about it...


  • Why the world would you use a slipknot as a garage pull? The idea of a slip knot is that it tightens under load, meaning each time you pull the garage door down you'd theoretically be tightening the knot on your hand. I recognize that perhaps there isn't enough load to cause it to tighten, but it seems like the wrong knot for the job.
  • Whoever tied it, why would they choose a slip knot? Is it the only knot they know? If so, where exactly did they learn it?


All fishermen use slip knots. I've been doing it for years, but I will cease and desist, I reckon. No more fishing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 25, 2020, 03:00:45 PM

This man is a GD living legend. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlQb6jZF4VI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlQb6jZF4VI)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on June 25, 2020, 03:03:50 PM
Does anyone here have Disney+?

They're doing Hamilton starting July 3.

As a student of revolutionary history, I found it quite accurate regarding Alexander Hamilton--and I say that as someone who wasn't a big fan of his effect on our nation historically. And from a theatrical perspective, it's quite a good show.

I plan to have my oldest watch it, and it'll be nice to revisit it with my wife since it's been a few years since we saw it.
I saw it in Chicago last year. Lin-Manuel Miranda is a damn genius.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 25, 2020, 03:13:49 PM
12 years old. 1:15 AM. What could go wrong?


A 12-year-old girl playing with friends outside suffered a graze wound in a shooting early Thursday in the West Englewood neighborhood, police said.


The girl was on the sidewalk in the 6800 block of South Wolcott Avenue about 1:15 a.m. when someone in a white SUV drove past and someone in the vehicle fired shots, according to a police media notification. The girl felt pain when she suffered a graze wound to the lower back and was taken to Comer Children’s Hospital, where she was in good condition.
Same here: https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/oh-cuyahoga/young-girl-shot-in-east-cleveland-police-say (https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/oh-cuyahoga/young-girl-shot-in-east-cleveland-police-say)

Why  aren't the national wonks carterwauling about these injustices.Not uncommon at all
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on June 25, 2020, 03:17:14 PM
I saw it in Chicago last year. Lin-Manuel Miranda is a damn genius.
Yeah it's phenominal.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on June 25, 2020, 03:21:21 PM
we have season tickets to broadway across america....  great show
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 25, 2020, 03:21:46 PM
This man is a GD living legend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlQb6jZF4VI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlQb6jZF4VI)
He'd be a guy to step aside from if he was pissed those sections of gate aren't light and he threw them like a paper airplane.Good for him tired of pointless wanton vandalism.He tells the one guy at the end hey fat fuck you don't even live here,thanx for posting,my new hero
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 25, 2020, 03:34:16 PM
ESPN today was saying that it wasn't there at the start of the race weekend last October, but was there at the end of the race weekend. So it's only 6 months.

If the garage has been mostly closed? Maybe it could still look pretty new.


(https://static.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/fake-noose-bubba-wallace.jpg)

It looked a lot older in October. Smaller too. 

And they appear to have replaced the new red garage frame with an old rippled garage frame. 

The knot looks different too, with more loops and a longer piece sticking out the top. 




Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 25, 2020, 03:39:11 PM
why are 12 year olds on the street after midnight?

especially those F ing streets
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2020, 03:39:39 PM
why are 12 year olds on the street after midnight?

especially those F ing streets
She was playing with friends ...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 25, 2020, 03:40:37 PM
(https://static.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/fake-noose-bubba-wallace.jpg)

It looked a lot older in October. Smaller too.

And they appear to have replaced the new red garage frame with an old rippled garage frame.

The knot looks different too, with more loops and a longer piece sticking out the top.





are you saying you don't trust the media, the source, NASCAR, the FBI, the Clintons, or all of the above?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 25, 2020, 03:41:02 PM
She was playing with friends ...
luckily her friends are still alive
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2020, 03:58:08 PM
https://babylonbee.com/news/cities-successfully-preserving-existing-statues-by-re-naming-them-all-karl-marx?utm_content=buffer3957e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer&fbclid=IwAR3md6qqKkPYqTL43TrIZmVXEB_9hklEs9TgSIASbtsEpHP6B7wd_VXSEx8 (https://babylonbee.com/news/cities-successfully-preserving-existing-statues-by-re-naming-them-all-karl-marx?utm_content=buffer3957e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer&fbclid=IwAR3md6qqKkPYqTL43TrIZmVXEB_9hklEs9TgSIASbtsEpHP6B7wd_VXSEx8)

(https://i.imgur.com/tETqaZP.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2020, 04:00:21 PM
They could do that with Stone Mountain, just say the three dudes are Sherman, Grant, and Lincoln. 

[img width=500 height=295.99]https://i.imgur.com/InhEXos.jpg[/img]

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/what-will-happen-stone-mountain-americas-largest-confederate-memorial-180964588/ (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/what-will-happen-stone-mountain-americas-largest-confederate-memorial-180964588/)

the sculpture large enough that a grown man could stand inside (http://www.stonemountainpark.com/Activities/History-Nature/Confederate-Memorial-Carving) one of the three horse’s mouths. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 25, 2020, 04:04:45 PM


  • Whoever tied it, why would they choose a slip knot? Is it the only knot they know? If so, where exactly did they learn it?



Home Brewers meeting
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2020, 04:05:58 PM
That carving probably can't be removed over night.  Sorry.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 25, 2020, 04:17:38 PM
Most of these statues have been up for decades, but now everyone has a problem with them? Where were they years ago when they were erected? 

Personally, IMHO the people looking to tear down the statues are left wing anarchists and Marxists that want to destroy the very fabric of this nation. The statues represent our history both good and bad. They are there to incite conversation, understanding and learning. This nation is far from perfect but has come a long way. If we forget or try to erase that history, we are doomed to repeat it.

Personally, I hope that the local politicians start enforcing the laws against these brain dead morons looking to destroy public property. They all need to be brought up on charges and tried in a court of law. If found guilty, throw the book at them. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2020, 04:20:01 PM
The reality is that quite a few of them were put up to remind a certain segment of the population who is still in charge around here.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 25, 2020, 04:20:33 PM
Most of these statues have been up for decades, but now everyone has a problem with them?
They always had a problem with them, but didn't feel empowered to be heard.
 Where were they years ago when they were erected?
Silently suffering.

Some of you are uh-bliv-ee-us.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 25, 2020, 04:22:50 PM
The reality is that quite a few of them were put up to remind a certain segment of the population who is still in charge around here.


Yes, 60-80 years after the Civil War ended.  Yeah, Emancipation Proclamation, but don't get any ideas.  Yes, Brown v. Board of Education, but don't get any ideas.  Oh, you have a paradigm-shifting leader?  SHOT.  Oh, you have a while ally close to the president?  SHOT.  

I see here a bunch of babies who are pitching a fit that telling a certain portion of the population to know their role and shut their mouth isn't working anymore.  Boo-hoo.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 25, 2020, 04:23:11 PM
Some of you are uh-bliv-ee-us.
Don't speak ebonics would you translate
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 25, 2020, 04:25:30 PM
I see here a bunch of babies who are pitching a fit that telling a certain portion of the population to know their role and shut their mouth isn't working anymore.  Boo-hoo.
As I said before I hope the rioters visit you and you neighborhood real soon - boo-hoo
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 25, 2020, 04:30:36 PM
As I said before I hope the rioters visit you and you neighborhood real soon - boo-hoo
If you saw where I live, you'd know the rioters are my neighbors, probably.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 25, 2020, 04:31:24 PM
Don't speak ebonics would you translate
It's actually phonetic.  But your swing-and-a-miss isn't racist, right?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 25, 2020, 05:36:03 PM
If you saw where I live, you'd know the rioters are my neighbors, probably.
You live in the one Black neighborhood in all of Arizona?

You must be more gangsta than Sullivant Sam.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 25, 2020, 05:44:00 PM
It's actually phonetic.  But your swing-and-a-miss isn't racist, right?
everything is racist didnt you know that
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 25, 2020, 06:26:53 PM
everything is racist didnt you know that
If you find yourself thinking this....it's time to get real reflective.  Not exasperated or dismissive.  Reflective.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on June 25, 2020, 06:33:20 PM
how's the fire pit project coming along.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 25, 2020, 06:36:27 PM
how's the fire pit project coming along.


Oh that's awesome. My wife is actually the DIYer. She built a couch, love seat, and two chairs for the back patio we've gone around whether we could build a gas fire pit. It doesn't look too awfully difficult but you know, we'll see how motivated I can get her.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 25, 2020, 06:43:05 PM
Yes, 60-80 years after the Civil War ended.  Yeah, Emancipation Proclamation, but don't get any ideas.  Yes, Brown v. Board of Education, but don't get any ideas.  Oh, you have a paradigm-shifting leader?  SHOT.  Oh, you have a while ally close to the president?  SHOT. 

I see here a bunch of babies who are pitching a fit that telling a certain portion of the population to know their role and shut their mouth isn't working anymore.  Boo-hoo.
A lot of them related to the "United Daughters of the Confederacy." Makes you wonder if we would have Hitler statues if Nazi descendants had a better P.R. group.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 25, 2020, 07:12:29 PM
If you find yourself thinking this....it's time to get real reflective.  Not exasperated or dismissive.  Reflective.
The last time I became reflective I realized I was way better then everyone else
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 25, 2020, 07:28:45 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/35mOTYL.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 25, 2020, 07:52:42 PM
It's actually phonetic.  But your swing-and-a-miss isn't racist, right?
Wouldn't expect a luminary such as yourself break ranks with your profession,precious
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 25, 2020, 07:54:37 PM
The last time I became reflective I realized I was way better then everyone else
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCyYuLQ7_Ws (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCyYuLQ7_Ws)


me being reflective
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 25, 2020, 07:55:18 PM
If you find yourself thinking this....it's time to get real reflective.  Not exasperated or dismissive.  Reflective.
Like you've demonstrated so very often across this message board.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on June 25, 2020, 07:58:40 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/s1X2Vgm.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 25, 2020, 07:59:25 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCyYuLQ7_Ws (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCyYuLQ7_Ws)
I'm old enough to remember Mac Davis coming out with that on Johnny Carson
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on June 25, 2020, 08:00:04 PM
We put in a little fire pit last year. I’ve gotten a ton enjoyment out of it. I love poking at a fire and drinking a beer on a summer night.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 25, 2020, 08:01:24 PM
It's how philosophy was born
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 25, 2020, 08:04:13 PM
He'd be a guy to step aside from if he was pissed those sections of gate aren't light and he threw them like a paper airplane.Good for him tired of pointless wanton vandalism.He tells the one guy at the end hey fat fuck you don't even live here,thanx for posting,my new hero


My favorite part was when he called out the leftists for lacking the cajones to try that shit in da hood.

Yyyyyyyyyyep. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 25, 2020, 08:09:32 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/35mOTYL.png)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlZJKkMf09w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlZJKkMf09w)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on June 25, 2020, 08:13:08 PM

My favorite part was when he called out the leftists for lacking the cajones to try that shit in da hood.

Yyyyyyyyyyep.
middle linebacker material 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 25, 2020, 08:17:06 PM
We put in a little fire pit last year. I’ve gotten a ton enjoyment out of it. I love poking at a fire and drinking a beer on a summer night.
It's how philosophy was born
I've solved most of society's problems over some beer in front of a fire...

...just wish I could remember the solutions.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 25, 2020, 08:25:46 PM
Throw another log on and open another beer
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: rolltidefan on June 26, 2020, 10:17:36 AM
how's the fire pit project coming along.


are you in australia? ɐɹǝ ʎon ᴉu ɐnsʇɹlᴉɐ¿

looks awesome, btw.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: rolltidefan on June 26, 2020, 10:24:41 AM
@Kris60 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=79) man, that looks fantastic. i got one very similar, except more round. we went to a local gas tank builder and go one of the scrap/damaged ends, shaped like a bowl, and set inside it. drilled out a 1" hole in center for drainage. helps in cleaning out ashes when it gets too full.

looks like this

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQRUoac5BGbFrKek_-BzY_rEZt5cuLnOEv-4X7u-isZxjnpnv00E8LGs9xeTdVKBATAoY147w&usqp=CAU)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 26, 2020, 10:32:34 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/DpoGhMr.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 26, 2020, 10:45:18 AM
Just make the dark blue districts "no-go zones" and let them kill each other down to the last man. 

Then all you have to do is go in there and arrest that last man. Efficient. Cost effective. Minimal labor. 

Badda bing, badda boom. Problem solved. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 26, 2020, 10:55:13 AM
I recall last Spring being cold and rainy. Not so much this year.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on June 26, 2020, 12:30:09 PM
Most of these statues have been up for decades, but now everyone has a problem with them? Where were they years ago when they were erected?

Personally, IMHO the people looking to tear down the statues are left wing anarchists and Marxists that want to destroy the very fabric of this nation. The statues represent our history both good and bad. They are there to incite conversation, understanding and learning. This nation is far from perfect but has come a long way. If we forget or try to erase that history, we are doomed to repeat it.

Personally, I hope that the local politicians start enforcing the laws against these brain dead morons looking to destroy public property. They all need to be brought up on charges and tried in a court of law. If found guilty, throw the book at them.
What are "these statues"?  Statues of U.S. Grant or statues of R.E. Lee?  Statues of Lincoln or statues of Jefferson Davis?
Today's people weren't alive when those statues were put up, as most of them are over 100 years old, so the answer to your question is that they weren't born yet.
Statues of Confederates were not put up to incite conversation; they were put up to honor the "Lost Cause" and keep uppity blacks from thinking that they had any importance in the land of white men.
Removing statues does not erase history.  It just changes whom we choose to honor.
I completely agree with your last point.  People who destroy either public property or private property should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 26, 2020, 12:36:51 PM
If some statue of Lee has some historical or artistic value, I would put it in a museum or cemetery somewhere, away from the public square.  But, I favor letting localities decide the issue.  If some town wants to take down a statue of Sherman, fine with me, I'd question their sensibility, but whatever.

The carving on Stone Mountain is a large and more difficult problem that isn't going to be resolved soon.

I don't know of any other Confederate statues in Atlanta other than the Peace statue across the street.  I doubt there is one to Sherman around anywhere.

There is the Cyclorama, which is rather impressive, and now nicely housed with the history of it corrected.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 26, 2020, 05:11:55 PM
The house voted to admit Washington DC as a state. Obviously that won't pass the Senate, at least not yet. Say Dems do win the White House and both branches of Congress, will we add another state? Two?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 26, 2020, 05:20:46 PM
Can I state that if this were to happen, I would leave the USA, and then not actually leave? I'm still waiting for a lot of people to leave for New Zealand, Canada, France, etc.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 26, 2020, 05:25:10 PM
Hoard politically incorrect stuff while you still can. They will be valuable collectors items one day. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 26, 2020, 05:31:06 PM
F! I just bought a new American flag... Now I'm going to have to replace it with one with 51 stars? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 26, 2020, 05:39:48 PM
F! I just bought a new American flag... Now I'm going to have to replace it with one with 51 stars?
Wait until they add Puerto Rico (and another two Senate seats for themselves). Then move to New Zealand.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 26, 2020, 05:40:31 PM
Anyone want to invest in a craft brewery in the Cinque Terre?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 26, 2020, 05:46:25 PM
Wait until they add Puerto Rico (and another two Senate seats for themselves). Then move to New Zealand.
Feels like an even number is better
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 26, 2020, 05:54:25 PM
50 is fine. 

3-4 countries might be a better answer, as divided as we seem to have been, since 2010 or so. 

Hell, Texas and California ARE countries, I think.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 26, 2020, 06:40:13 PM
I wish California was
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 26, 2020, 07:38:18 PM
Just give NY to Canada, and CA to Mexico. 

Bang, done. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 26, 2020, 08:03:09 PM
Just give NY to Canada, and CA to Mexico.

Bang, done.
What about Vermont? Separate country in itself?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 26, 2020, 08:05:31 PM
Insignificant speck of dust. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 26, 2020, 08:14:29 PM
Insignificant speck of dust.
I wish.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 26, 2020, 08:47:15 PM
Vermont wants to be part of Canada anyway. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 26, 2020, 09:24:56 PM
If we combined North and South Dakota into, you know, Dakota, then combined Montana and Wyoming into Wytana, we could stay at 50 and the 25 people who live in those states would barely notice
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on June 26, 2020, 09:33:22 PM
I think Rapid City would be the capital city in that scenario.  Strong economy, well run, sane Government.  WY, MT would ignore everyone, but ND would be pissed.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 26, 2020, 09:38:59 PM
and Rapid City has a great sculpture near by
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 26, 2020, 10:19:05 PM
Vermont wants to be part of Canada anyway.
Sometimes so do I
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 26, 2020, 10:23:49 PM
Vermont and Canada are both fine. Nice scenery, and low crime rates. I'd take either of them over NY or CA any day
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 26, 2020, 10:33:25 PM
Spent many vacations in Ontario & Quebec fishin' - Love It
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 26, 2020, 10:45:12 PM
Vermont and Canada are both fine. Nice scenery, and low crime rates. I'd take either of them over NY or CA any day
If it weren't for the ridiculous real estate and taxes, I'd take CA over nearly anywhere. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 26, 2020, 10:53:31 PM
and the crazy folks that live there
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 26, 2020, 11:17:57 PM
If it weren't for the ridiculous real estate and taxes, I'd take CA over nearly anywhere.

Pretty big IF.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 27, 2020, 06:14:13 AM
It's not going to change either. Same goes for Illinois, which is California with mosquitos and shitty weather.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 27, 2020, 07:33:42 AM
Years ago we were on a cruise that went through Puerto Rico.  My family wanted to do one of those dumb bus tours so I got roped in with them.  It turned out to be...amazing?  The tour guide talked at length about the history of the island and the politics, which I hadn't considered much.  They had statues of every president that visited the island, which at the time was nine since becoming a territory in 1898.  They are very independent, but live in a state of limbo due to being in American but not really having any say in America politics.  While it would be nice to think that would change due out of the goodness of politicians' hearts, it's really only going to change if the people can vote and send representation.  If the Puerto Rican people support statehood, I'm hopeful it happens.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 27, 2020, 07:44:39 AM
Some do support it. Some don't. In talking with folks down there, I get the impression that they would like to be their own country. 

Not sure how they would fund that effort.

Old San Juan is very nice. The rest of it, not so much. There are pockets of nice, for sure.

One of my friends has 3 houses there, all in nice areas. His mother lives there still, as does his sister, who is an immigration judge. She's pretty damn cool.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2020, 08:19:55 AM
is she single?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 27, 2020, 08:22:42 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 27, 2020, 08:25:31 AM
is she single?
That'd be funny - she'd prolly have one of those ankle monitors slapped on you faster than you can say "FORE"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2020, 08:27:49 AM
I'm not nearly as bad in real life as my internet persona 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 27, 2020, 08:29:28 AM
Sure,of course,speaking of course shouldn't you be out on one?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2020, 08:34:06 AM
11:30 tee time

gotta have time a for a couple frosted schooners
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 27, 2020, 08:40:38 AM
Maybe your new internet girl friend would like a side bar - a Pina Colada perhaps.Being from the Islands or a rum and coke,maybe
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2020, 08:43:13 AM
I'm always happy to buy a girl a drink

ladies that drink heavily seem to like me more than sober chicks
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 27, 2020, 08:45:10 AM
Can't imagine why if they're seeing two of you.At least that's what they complain about around me
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 27, 2020, 08:57:57 AM
This is a major problem if it's true.


A Russian military unit secretly sought to offer rewards to Taliban-linked militants to incentivize them to hunt and kill coalition forces in Afghanistan as the Trump administration engaged in peace talks to end the nearly two-decade long war, U.S. intelligence officials have reportedly concluded.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2020, 09:05:17 AM
what was the incentive?

american cigarettes
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 27, 2020, 09:08:59 AM
Money.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 27, 2020, 09:10:38 AM
and the crazy folks that live there
Eh. People in California don't talk to each other. We go years without introducing ourselves to neighbors. So it's not that I even mind the quality of the people here... 

...there's just too damn many of them. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2020, 09:14:11 AM
that too
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 27, 2020, 09:20:13 AM
Eh. People in California don't talk to each other. We go years without introducing ourselves to neighbors. So it's not that I even mind the quality of the people here...

...there's just too damn many of them.
That's because everyone in Cali has walls around their houses. Doesn't exactly promote neighborly exchanges.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 27, 2020, 09:26:04 AM
If there were a way to somehow catapult all of the coastal cities into the Pacific Ocean, then Cali would be awesome.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2020, 09:27:52 AM
That's because everyone in Cali has walls around their houses. Doesn't exactly promote neighborly exchanges.
This is VERY true in French suburbs.  The French were astonished when they visited our house that nobody had even a fence (unless they had a pool).

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 27, 2020, 09:33:07 AM
If there were a way to somehow catapult all of the coastal cities into the Pacific Ocean, then Cali would be awesome.


You need to get hold of Lex Luther.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2020, 09:46:33 AM
FORE!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 27, 2020, 09:49:41 AM
I guess that's kind of what the ole San Andreas Fault is threatening to do. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 27, 2020, 01:06:45 PM
9 pounds of bacon cured, and on the smoker.

6 pounds is traditional (just cured with sugar/salt/cure#2 and then hit with CBP)
3 pounds is maple-espresso cured. https://leitesculinaria.com/95593/writings-homemade-maple-espresso-bacon.html (https://leitesculinaria.com/95593/writings-homemade-maple-espresso-bacon.html)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2020, 01:16:48 PM
In my experience, a lot of the folks who run down places like NYC and California (SF, LA, SD) have never been there, or never spent any time there.  They develop impressions based on some news report of some small portion of some city.

I can take a camera into the Tenderloin district in SF and show some pretty horrible conditions with ease.

I could also go to South Beach where my step son lives and show something very different.

News cameras seek out the extremes much as NASCAR likes wrecks.  If you see a news item on some race, much of it will be the wrecks and then the finish.  

The CFB HoF is slated to reopen July 1 incidentally.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 27, 2020, 01:39:34 PM
I am a pretty big fan of NY State, minus NYC and Lawn Guyland. 

I have only been to Cali once. San Diego. Great place to visit. Wouldn't want to live there, unless I won a few dozen lotteries. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2020, 02:04:19 PM
NYC is not going to appeal to everyone (duh) but it has its allures and attractive aspects.  When I hear folks running it down as if it doesn't, I figure I'm listening to a person who maybe was there for a day, or less, same with any other Big City.

I have walked quite a bit in SF over several trips and outside the Tenderloin District, the city is pretty decent.  There is a lot of blowing trash.  LA is not my cup of tea for obvious reasons but I have had some excellent experiences there in the past.  I liked Seattle, but we stayed downtown, it seemed to me like an interesting city, rather expensive in terms if living there and the climate can be, um, suspect.

I try and take every city and location for what it is without preconceptions or notions or what I heard on X News.

I often tell folks who ask me about Paris that it is my least favorite city in France, which they take to mean I dislike Paris a lot, which is not really true.

But, human beings often like to run down "other".  It's fascinating.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 27, 2020, 02:36:09 PM
I am not very fond of city life for the most part, so anything like NYC or LA or Chicago or Atlanta would be about as desirable to me as doing a stint in the clink. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2020, 02:41:07 PM
In other news, there was a water main break down near Georgia Tech, we're told (I blame them) and we have no water.  "We" are rather dependent on an easy supply of sanitary running water in our lives.

As for city life, it's obviously to my liking here.  But I'm pretty flexible, I used to spend summers on a farm in the country, and mostly have lived in the 'burbs in my life time.  I have still spent more years in Ohio than any other state, but that will change, hopefully, in another decade or so.  Maybe that two decades.

Huh.

I can appreciate how big a different rural electrification meant in the lives of so many.  Aside from lights, you could now have running water and an electric stove.

The early parts of my Dad's life were hardly different from a person living 200 years ago.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 27, 2020, 03:18:21 PM
Coming from a small town/rural to Columbus was a difficult transition but I'm pretty into it now. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2020, 04:04:04 PM
https://atlantaintownpaper.com/2020/06/large-water-main-break-at-georgia-tech-causes-citywide-outage-boil-water-advisory/ (https://atlantaintownpaper.com/2020/06/large-water-main-break-at-georgia-tech-causes-citywide-outage-boil-water-advisory/)

That water main break is pretty impressive, it's a torrent.

Large water main break at Georgia Tech causes citywide outage, boil water advisory (https://atlantaintownpaper.com/2020/06/large-water-main-break-at-georgia-tech-causes-citywide-outage-boil-water-advisory/)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 27, 2020, 05:51:55 PM
That happened at UCLA a few years back.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 27, 2020, 05:53:19 PM
That's because everyone in Cali has walls around their houses. Doesn't exactly promote neighborly exchanges.
I think this is a western thing.  Maybe having to do with the winds and dry ground maybe?  It's something I noticed moving to Phoenix and visiting a friend in Vegas. 

Back in FL, only the super-nice houses are walled in.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 27, 2020, 05:56:36 PM

The CFB HoF is slated to reopen July 1 incidentally.
I should get a job there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2020, 06:19:07 PM
The tour is interesting, very "computerized".  The wife enjoyed it.

In other news, the water is back on, looking rather brown in places.  A fairly serious storm came up and I watched some park goers scrambling for cover along with folks at the bar next door.

I had forgotten how fast these summer storms can materialize.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 27, 2020, 06:26:15 PM
I miss rain.  Monsoon season has begun, but the last few years, it's been all over the place.  

Much as certain places lack seasons, it's the same effect that some places almost never rain and it just feels weird.  Mundane, no variety.  It's either real hot or damn hot here.  Dry.  Hot.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2020, 06:28:48 PM
But it's a dry heat.  How many times have we heard that?

We never say (much) It's a damp cold.  I dislike the damp cold, those 36°F days when it's overcast and humid and windy.  

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2020, 07:02:57 PM
imo, being a dirt farmer from a city less than 100,000

no sense in trying to live  in a big city - no upside
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 27, 2020, 07:10:39 PM
We're not getting any monsoons. I think that it has rained once since I moved here in late March. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 27, 2020, 08:45:17 PM
We're in "June Gloom." 

One of my favorite times of year , though, because it's not too hot . 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 27, 2020, 09:50:23 PM
That's because everyone in Cali has walls around their houses. Doesn't exactly promote neighborly exchanges.
Walls? Get out of those McMansion SoCal suburbs my friend 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 27, 2020, 10:17:27 PM
I thought that Cali said that walls were racist? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 28, 2020, 09:33:38 AM
It's my anniversary today. Usually she forgets but I forgot this year. She wrote it down this year, the cheater. Anyway in our vows I promised ribs, bacon, and guacamole as often as she wanted, so guess what we're having today.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 28, 2020, 09:35:40 AM
Well what are you doing here?Get on it man - I'm just 2.5 hrs down the road what should I bring?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on June 28, 2020, 09:36:42 AM
It's my anniversary today. Usually she forgets but I forgot this year. She wrote it down this year, the cheater. Anyway in our vows I promised ribs, bacon, and guacamole as often as she wanted, so guess what we're having today.
Marriage is about sacrifice
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 28, 2020, 09:41:56 AM
Well what are you doing here?Get on it man - I'm just 2.5 hrs down the road what should I bring?
Well I didn't put bourbon in our vows but people grow
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 28, 2020, 09:42:09 AM
Marriage is about sacrifice
It's the beautiful struggle
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 28, 2020, 09:44:38 AM
Well I didn't put bourbon in our vows but people grow
I have a Half Gallon of Mr Beam's Elixir will that work?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 28, 2020, 09:45:35 AM
It's the beautiful struggle
For today it is.Tomorrow it goes back to maddening
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 28, 2020, 10:09:07 AM
I have a Half Gallon of Mr Beam's Elixir will that work?
Hell yeah and I have a front porch
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 28, 2020, 10:12:27 AM
Which one a yinz has been married the longest? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 28, 2020, 10:32:30 AM
It's my anniversary today. Usually she forgets but I forgot this year. She wrote it down this year, the cheater. Anyway in our vows I promised ribs, bacon, and guacamole as often as she wanted, so guess what we're having today.
Good man Max.   
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 28, 2020, 10:41:08 AM
Which one a yinz has been married the longest?
Are we going by actual time or how long it's felt like?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 28, 2020, 10:46:09 AM
Are we going by actual time or how long it's felt like?


Might as well put down both. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 28, 2020, 12:03:44 PM
Seven years for us, feels like...70. Though it feels like 70 years have passed since February too so maybe I'm a bad judge
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on June 28, 2020, 12:09:25 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/john-wayne-airport-demand-renamed-racist-statements-160549402.html (https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/john-wayne-airport-demand-renamed-racist-statements-160549402.html)

John Wayne airport may soon be renamed.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on June 28, 2020, 12:10:01 PM
part of me wants this to continue.   I'm actually curious how DC and the state of Washington will be renamed.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 28, 2020, 12:12:14 PM
The Carolinas, Pennsylvania,  Georgia, Louisiana, Virginia, why stop?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on June 28, 2020, 12:14:06 PM
I think it will need to go further before the woke movement is a reference in a text book and the society over corrects again.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 28, 2020, 12:18:40 PM
Thousands of cities and towns need to be renamed, STAT!  Jacksonville - gone.  

And hey, if we rename all this stuff, history teachers can skip over teaching reconstruction - the sewing back together of our country!  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 28, 2020, 12:25:53 PM


If the former CSA States refuse to change their name, then they should be expelled from the Union. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 28, 2020, 12:34:27 PM
Which is what they wanted in the 1st place
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 28, 2020, 12:42:27 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/john-wayne-airport-demand-renamed-racist-statements-160549402.html (https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/john-wayne-airport-demand-renamed-racist-statements-160549402.html)

John Wayne airport may soon be renamed.

There is a John Wayne airport? Why don't we have a Tom Cruise airport? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 28, 2020, 12:46:01 PM
John Wayne airport is a pretty large affair and convenient if you want to travel east or south from LA instead of LAX on the beach virtually.

Historically, had South Carolina not fired on Fort Sumpter, things would have been interesting indeed.  Would Lincoln have called for volunteers had SC not started the fracas?

There were no fatalities during the bombardment, though there was one after the fact when a canon blew up.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 28, 2020, 12:51:01 PM
There is a John Wayne airport? Why don't we have a Tom Cruise airport?
He's not dead yet.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 28, 2020, 01:04:23 PM
He's not dead yet.
Then sign me up for a Paul Walker airport. It could have a fast terminal and a furious terminal
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 28, 2020, 03:32:18 PM
I was thinking about this thing with defunding or disbandment of police departments. I coming to thing disbanding could be a great way to bust the unions, which are the root of many problems. They have to much power to protect their own.

So, you bust the unions, turn police into regulated professionals (like many have to be), and have a governing board at the state level. Then, cities can hire back the ones they want, and the bad apples are permanently gone.

It could work.

It could work with a lot of the public employee unions, in fact. Start with the CTU in Chicago, and other big cities with shitty schools.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 28, 2020, 05:08:40 PM
Chicago’s stubborn gun violence has extended into a second consecutive weekend as three separate fatal early morning shootings have added to a growing toll.

Those Sunday deaths followed a bloody Saturday during which six people were killed, including a 1-year-old boy (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-child-shot-20200627-azxdl66q3farlf2g5syd3f4zea-story.html#nt=interstitial-manual) and a 10-year-old girl who died (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-logan-square-shooting-06272020-20200628-qrm5fniatvht5evsp52l6c45ma-story.html) in separate shootings.

About 7 a.m., a 19-year-old man was walking near the 1400 block of West Lunt Avenue in the Rogers Park neighborhood, when an unknown male approached him and fired one gunshot in the back on the man’s head. The gunman ran to a black SUV that traveled west on Lunt toward Clark Street, police said.

The man was transported to AMITA Health St. Francis Hospital in Evanston where he was pronounced dead, authorities said.
About 15 minutes later in the South Chicago neighborhood, an 18-year-old man was shot multiple times in the torso in the 8200 block of South Escanaba Avenue, police said. He made it to the 8300 block of South Muskegon Avenue where officers responded and offered aid. He was rushed to the University of Chicago Medical Center, where he later died, according to police.


Around 8:30 a.m., a 38-year-old man was walking in a South Lawndale alley in the 2500 block of South Troy Street when an SUV approached the alley and an unknown male exited the vehicle and shot the man multiple times. He was pronounced dead on the scene, officials said.



Four more people were shot after the most recent homicide Sunday.

Gun violence made last week the city’s most violent in Chicago since at least 2012, with at least 106 people shot (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-chicago-weekend-violence-shootings-20200622-ghaioius2zhdpdsbsan4k2g2vu-story.html), 14 fatally. Last Sunday, Mayor Lori Lightfoot was lamenting the death of another child lost to gun violence.

“Our city’s collective heart breaks to hear the unfathomable news of a 3-year-old boy who was shot and killed tonight on Chicago’s West Side,” she said at the time, following the death of Mekhi James.

Then on Saturday, nearly a week after the mayor’s comments, two more children were killed, the victims of errant bullets intended for someone else.

A 10-year-old girl was killed in Logan Square after she was struck in the head by a stray bullet that came through a second-floor apartment window, according to police.

The girl and her 8-year-old cousin were sitting in the front room of an apartment in the 3500 block of West Dickens Avenue when a man fired multiple shots in the alley across the street, police said, citing preliminary information. The 8-year-old’s face was struck with glass.

The incident occurred just after Sincere Gaston, 20-months-old, was fatally shot (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-child-shot-20200627-azxdl66q3farlf2g5syd3f4zea-story.html) in the Englewood neighborhood about 3 p.m. Saturday.

Less than two hours after the 10-year-old girl was shot and her cousin injured, another 8-year-old girl was grazed by a bullet on her head. The scene in the West Englewood neighborhood, was similar to the Logan Square shooting in that the girl was indoors when she was shot, police said. She was sitting on a couch inside a home in the 6600 block of South Wood Street when a bullet came through the window.


That 8-year-old girl was taken to Comer Children’s Hospital in fair condition, police said.



In the first six months of the year, Chicago has experienced a large spike in shootings and homicides over the same time last year.
Through last Sunday, the city saw a jump of more than 25% in the number of homicides, reaching 295, which is 60 more than the same period a year ago, according to a review of crime statistics (https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.chicagotribune.com%2Fnews%2Fcriminal-justice%2Fct-chicago-police-six-month-crime-stats-20200626-wqsf3rebavaldex7v54ozqsnxe-story.html&data=02|01|jvillagomez%40chicagotribune.com|cf98c5a312674094358b08d81b9003eb|f7da0482aed242fa80233b240fb6598d|0|0|637289652646942937&sdata=NTJGny3XwcBeWqyxMuTm1mcLWLRGo%2BPmftMMwS8CL38%3D&reserved=0). Ninety-six of those occurred during a 28-day stretch that covered most of June, the statistics show.

The police department and its new superintendent have struggled to get a handle on gun violence that has persisted amid the COVID-19 pandemic, which led to stay-at-home restrictions.

Most recently authorities have attempted a return to normalcy following the unrest and looting that occurred across the city in the wake of George Floyd’s death at the hands of police in Minnesota on Memorial Day.

Detectives are investigating all three homicides. No arrests have been made.


Check back for updates.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 28, 2020, 07:36:04 PM
:91: :03: 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 28, 2020, 08:38:00 PM
I think it will need to go further before the woke movement is a reference in a text book and the society over corrects again. 
It is going for sure.  I read where L’Oreal is eliminating the word “whitening” and “ white” from their best selling products. 
I am shocked the White House is not under pressure to change its name.  The word “ white” will be extinct. I am not sure that makes sense in any form, but let’s enjoy the ride. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 28, 2020, 09:04:44 PM
It is going for sure.  I read where L’Oreal is eliminating the word “whitening” and “ white” from their best selling products.
I am shocked the White House is not under pressure to change its name.  The word “ white” will be extinct. I am not sure that makes sense in any form, but let’s enjoy the ride.

Most of these decisions aren't really based on much pressure from anyone. It's a combination of corporate avoidance of controversy and other goofy things. There wasn't some large movement against Loreal's product line. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 28, 2020, 09:21:48 PM
Most of these decisions aren't really based on much pressure from anyone. It's a combination of corporate avoidance of controversy and other goofy things. There wasn't some large movement against Loreal's product line.
Agreed.  And yet- we are seeing it every day all over the country.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 28, 2020, 10:03:11 PM
Tbh, K-12 social studies/history classes rarely make it up to modern day.  It's usually chronological and sometimes get to WWII, often sputtering out at the Great Depression.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 28, 2020, 10:23:51 PM
Tbh, K-12 social studies/history classes rarely make it up to modern day.  It's usually chronological and sometimes get to WWII, often sputtering out at the Great Depression.
That’s sad.  Why is that?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on June 28, 2020, 11:45:26 PM
We petered out right before Vietnam,  this was early 90s.  We had an impressive WWII section and the Holocaust.  I wrote a long paper on Battle of the Bulge.   Mr. Achilles Arestides.   Seriously,  that was him.  A 1st generation Greek immigrant.  Excellent teacher.  Darkest hair I've ever seen on a man.  He grew up in the Bronx,  one way or another found himself in suburban Milwaukee. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on June 28, 2020, 11:54:04 PM
That’s sad.  Why is that?
The public schools haven't had the budget for new textbooks since 1948.

We made it up through Vietnam in my HS class, but only because my teacher skimmed over battle history, because she said she didn't feel qualified to teach it.  Gave us suggested reading if we were interested in digging deeper.  We spent probably a month on the build up to each war, then knocked the war itself out in a day or two
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 29, 2020, 01:27:50 AM
That’s sad.  Why is that?
A few reasons.
It's not bad in that many times, a class gets into a certain war or event and a teacher might spend more time in it.
A sad reason is textbooks/materials - many places use books that are older and since they weren't up-to-the-minute when they were produced, they're more and more lacking recent history.
Another sad reason is a lack of perceived importance of the subject.....due to testing being tied to funding, and annual testing only being reading and math, anytime something needs to be interrupted or cut out or pushed, it's social studies.  Got an assembly?  Scheduled during SS.  Half-day?  SS isn't taught that day.  Fire drill?  Guest speaker?  Field Day?  All during SS (if not specials/electives).

Plus it's just a pacing thing....if you have 180 days mapped out, you might get to the first 160 and especially for upper grade levels, once testing is over, the pace/adherence to plans kind of gets loose.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 29, 2020, 01:29:54 AM
Okay, we have to get serious about this:  Mississippi is dropping the rebel flag portion of it's flag and there can be only one replacement for that quadrant:
(https://i.imgur.com/tKadavr.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 29, 2020, 06:08:02 AM
Most of these decisions aren't really based on much pressure from anyone. It's a combination of corporate avoidance of controversy and other goofy things. There wasn't some large movement against Loreal's product line.


Chess is now being called racist because white pieces move first.

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6167761897001#sp=show-clips
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2020, 07:40:39 AM
https://www.ajc.com/news/local/opinion-hello-outrage-atlanta-shootings-surge-but-not-the-cops/pUYKjFGY8LcxSVlrHZpb4H/ (https://www.ajc.com/news/local/opinion-hello-outrage-atlanta-shootings-surge-but-not-the-cops/pUYKjFGY8LcxSVlrHZpb4H/)

Some reality in the paper here about crime going up, and tickets not being written, down from 3,000 per month to 50.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2020, 09:18:21 AM
There is an Amazon Prime series called "Silk Road" that I found fascinating, in part because our neighbor who traveled it watched with us.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on June 29, 2020, 09:24:50 AM
I think we are about to hear about police shortages as cops choose to retire early or move into other careers.    I'm not surprised by the pull back.   I'm sure there are many who feel less inclined to protect and serve after recent events.   

Those statements are not made to suggest police reform is not needed.  It is...   I'm very clear that I think many (not the majority, but many) cops are just bullies with badges.  I think they're trained to escalate and show force instead of removing fuel from the fire.    But, that doesn't mean I don't understand how one would feel in their shoes right now... 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2020, 09:28:14 AM
https://www.ajc.com/news/local/opinion-hello-outrage-atlanta-shootings-surge-but-not-the-cops/pUYKjFGY8LcxSVlrHZpb4H/ (https://www.ajc.com/news/local/opinion-hello-outrage-atlanta-shootings-surge-but-not-the-cops/pUYKjFGY8LcxSVlrHZpb4H/)

Some reality in the paper here about crime going up, and tickets not being written, down from 3,000 per month to 50.
The woke (angry) want to take over the country. No outrage necessary. Everything guys like us did to make this country great matters not.

Burn it down.

-Hawk Newsome
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 29, 2020, 10:27:42 AM
I think we are about to hear about police shortages as cops choose to retire early or move into other careers.    I'm not surprised by the pull back.  I'm sure there are many who feel less inclined to protect and serve after recent events. 
hopefully the "bad" cops are being encouraged to retire or move into other careers

hopefully the "good" cops would embrace this and be encouraged to do an even better job than before
but, I suppose this would simply make too much sense
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2020, 10:34:25 AM
My rather negative POV is that the honest decent cops would be the ones most likely to want out.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 29, 2020, 10:35:40 AM
It's well known that decent cops burnt out and get out because of the issues of bad cops
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2020, 10:37:47 AM
I saw something vaguely similar at my company, when times got hard and they wanted to cut staffing, the folks who COULD leave left, and they COULD leave because they were good enough to have other employment options, and they took them.

In my last year, they announced that the MANAGERS could take the retirement package, it was a year's salary so it was significant.  BUT, our VP said that those of us at the same level on the technical side would not be eligible because he feared losing us.  If we were more valuable, why weren't we compensated for that?

I was pretty annoyed, though everyone expected it to be broadened, and it was 5 months later.  In the end, I got 5 more months of compensation and benefits and still got the package.  I didn't exactly pull my weight for those 5 months.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 29, 2020, 11:05:18 AM
I saw something vaguely similar at my company, when times got hard and they wanted to cut staffing, the folks who COULD leave left, and they COULD leave because they were good enough to have other employment options, and they took them.

In my last year, they announced that the MANAGERS could take the retirement package, it was a year's salary so it was significant.  BUT, our VP said that those of us at the same level on the technical side would not be eligible because he feared losing us.  If we were more valuable, why weren't we compensated for that?

I was pretty annoyed, though everyone expected it to be broadened, and it was 5 months later.  In the end, I got 5 more months of compensation and benefits and still got the package.  I didn't exactly pull my weight for those 5 months.


Love your honesty lol.  You should be HonestCincyDawg
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 29, 2020, 11:59:34 AM
https://www.ajc.com/news/local/opinion-hello-outrage-atlanta-shootings-surge-but-not-the-cops/pUYKjFGY8LcxSVlrHZpb4H/ (https://www.ajc.com/news/local/opinion-hello-outrage-atlanta-shootings-surge-but-not-the-cops/pUYKjFGY8LcxSVlrHZpb4H/)

Some reality in the paper here about crime going up, and tickets not being written, down from 3,000 per month to 50.
I thought papers were bad, but the strongly worded opinion section is good? Odd.

The thing about traffic stops in interesting because it could point to two things. 1. Police use pretextual stops as a means of searching people without warrants. 2. Police pulling back, and sitting on their hands because of slights they feel.

The former is a tricky one, especially if you’re kind of a rights person. The latter is notable as it says the police are liable to leverage their role. If that’s the cause of the extra murders, who knows?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2020, 12:04:56 PM
I try and keep an eye on local "crime conditions", so this caught me notice.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 29, 2020, 01:00:01 PM
The woke (angry) want to take over the country. No outrage necessary. Everything guys like us did to make this country great matters not.

Burn it down.

-Hawk Newsome
If our country was every that great, we wouldn't have such large percentages of it feeling neglected, targeted, or compromised.  Ya know?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 29, 2020, 01:04:10 PM
large percentages?

2-3%

or 12-13%

or are you talking more than this?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 29, 2020, 01:25:29 PM
large percentages?

2-3%

or 12-13%

or are you talking more than this?
Well, some issues are localized...

For example Mississippi, which may finally do away with the confederate flag as a portion of its state flag. 

Would you agree that perhaps the 37.67% of Mississippi's population which is African American might feel neglected, targeted, or compromised by having the symbol of racism and a war fought over slavery as their state's emblem? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 29, 2020, 01:26:16 PM
Well, I guess it depends.

100% of any population isn't going to have a problem or feel minimalized.  But most of certain populations do, I'm sure.

I'm not talking about the irrational outraged leaders of radical stuff, just nice, normal people wanting a good life and are willing to earn it, but face numerous obstacles the rest of us don't have to overcome.

Obviously, I'd include marginalized minorities, but also, what do we do with poor people living in rural areas who have been duped into thinking they're part of the in crowd of a party, but aren't?  What do we do with everyone taken advantage of by the fine print? 

What would we say is the percentage of people that aren't happy, but did their best in their pursuit of it?  I have no idea, maybe 25-30%?  I mean, we could cast a wide-ass net here - the misinformed who had a kid at 17 because they were only taught abstinence and abortion wasn't an option, socially.  The young vets with permanent problems that aren't evident by just looking at them, and have been let loose....

Where does it end?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 29, 2020, 01:28:32 PM
Well, some issues are localized...

For example Mississippi, which may finally do away with the confederate flag as a portion of its state flag.

Would you agree that perhaps the 37.67% of Mississippi's population which is African American might feel neglected, targeted, or compromised by having the symbol of racism and a war fought over slavery as their state's emblem?
No, no, I've been assured that it's just a symbol of heritage...of traitorous losers from 150 years ago.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 29, 2020, 03:11:18 PM
Completed a project yesterday. This rack used to have a bunch of kitchen items we never use, while our pots and pans were deep in cabinets and a pain to get to, despite using them daily. So we reversed that.

I realize most people don't like everything out and visible and wouldn't accept a 6'+ quite real shelving unit in their kitchen. I believe that makes them weird, not me.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 29, 2020, 03:14:21 PM
who needs to be wasting time looking out that window anyway
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 29, 2020, 03:22:34 PM
who needs to be wasting time looking out that window anyway
Yard's an eyesore anyway. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 29, 2020, 03:35:55 PM
Completed a project yesterday. This rack used to have a bunch of kitchen items we never use, while our pots and pans were deep in cabinets and a pain to get to, despite using them daily. So we reversed that.

I realize most people don't like everything out and visible and wouldn't accept a 6'+ quite real shelving unit in their kitchen. I believe that makes them weird, not me.



I love it. In our old house my wife put hooks on the walls to hold pans, which worked out great
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 29, 2020, 03:41:44 PM
I love it. In our old house my wife put hooks on the walls to hold pans, which worked out great
I'd love to have one of those big islands with tall ceilings, so I could have a rack hanging from the ceiling over the island to hang the pans. 

One of these:


(https://i.imgur.com/k0fbu87.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2020, 03:45:47 PM
The wife kiboshed any of that early on, so we have pull out drawers which work reasonably well.  We have a small kitchen obviously so volume is at a premium.  We gained quite a bit of effective volume in the redo even though nothing really expanded.

The inductive range is a gem.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 29, 2020, 03:53:56 PM
The inductive range is a gem.
At some point I want to cook on one.

For now, I'm a dyed-in-the-wool gas range aficionado, and the wife is as well.

I hear such great things about the induction ranges, from people who actually love cooking, so I think there's gotta be something to it. But I've never tried one, and I'd be leery about it without having actually used it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2020, 03:59:59 PM
The wife wanted a gas stove, but in our house we couldn't manage the venting properly, so I found an induction cooktop at Lowe's, their last one, being written off.  She became an almost instant convert.  When we redid the kitchen here, we had a decent range of the regular type and she insisted on getting induction.

They offer immediate pinpoint control.  They boil water faster than gas.  They don't heat up the kitchen (much, they heat the food).  The surface is very easy to clean of course (a feature she likes).  A Miele runs over $7K.  We got a Bosch which was $3200.  The oven is "normal", it does have a meat probe which I use.

The disadvantage is you need ferromagnetic cookware.  The magnets heat the bottom of the pot.  I can put a small pot on the large "eye" and it only heats the pot, an ice cube next to the pot won't heat up, it's a neat trick.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2020, 04:00:57 PM
I should mention you can buy a single "burner" induction for less than $100.  They are great for sauces, and coupling that with gas can give you both options.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 29, 2020, 04:01:23 PM
At some point I want to cook on one.

For now, I'm a dyed-in-the-wool gas range aficionado, and the wife is as well.

I hear such great things about the induction ranges, from people who actually love cooking, so I think there's gotta be something to it. But I've never tried one, and I'd be leery about it without having actually used it.
My parents have one. My mom hated it because half her pans didn't work. But if your cookware is right they are nice. 

I got a nonstick griddle from Costco. I got it for the grill but tried it on my range, which is just a glass top electric, and it worked great. Only 20 bucks and I finally made some decent pancakes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 29, 2020, 04:15:16 PM
I should mention you can buy a single "burner" induction for less than $100.  They are great for sauces, and coupling that with gas can give you both options.
That's a good idea... 

Where I live now has pretty weak gas pressure and our range is crap, not to mention the pretty weak water pressure. This house sucks. 

Would one of the 1800W induction burners I see on Amazon get my cast iron pan hotter than my weak-ass gas range does when running max power? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on June 29, 2020, 04:26:04 PM
I love gas but I do like the idea of having an extra single-burner induction on-hand.  Good suggestion!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2020, 04:29:21 PM
I bought the induction burner cooktop for our Florida home. I've got a single at the harbor. Works great.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 29, 2020, 04:54:41 PM
I'm going camping upstate for a couple of nights.  I usually don't try to cook things in a pot when camping, just meats on sticks.

But of course, there's a fire ban, so the ceiling for this trip will be low.  I hate camping w/o a fire to stare at.  But at least I'll be away from the diseased hords.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 29, 2020, 05:01:51 PM
I bought the induction burner cooktop for our Florida home. I've got a single at the harbor. Works great.
I read on Consumer Reports that the magnetic field can interfere with a digital thermometer. Have you seen that?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2020, 05:04:34 PM
Not that I've noticed.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2020, 05:07:03 PM
That's a good idea...

Where I live now has pretty weak gas pressure and our range is crap, not to mention the pretty weak water pressure. This house sucks.

Would one of the 1800W induction burners I see on Amazon get my cast iron pan hotter than my weak-ass gas range does when running max power?
I've never used one of course, but I'd imagine it would get it very hot.  There is a "boost" setting on ours that boils water quickly.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on June 29, 2020, 05:07:45 PM
I’d like to have the overhead hooks for pots and pans too.  My biggest pet peeve with our kitchen is the cabinet space for cups and glasses.  My wife and daughter are obsessed with Yetis and thermoses  and they take up way too much space and don’t stack well.

In fact, we now have more items  to drink from than cabinet space for those items.  It drives me crazy.  I’ve actually thrown out some cups but she just keeps bringing them in.  I threw out one glass not long ago thinking she wouldn’t notice. She eventually did and I caught hell.

I bet we have 25 coffee cups and no one in our house drinks coffee. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 29, 2020, 05:21:10 PM
I bet we have 25 coffee cups and no one in our house drinks coffee.
We have FAR too much glassware as well. 

I just counted and there are 14 Rae Dunn coffee mugs with various sayings on them. And another half-dozen coffee cups. That's after I convinced her to get rid of a BUNCH of coffee cups to make room for her Rae Dunn addiction. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2020, 05:26:23 PM
Moving helps a lot of this, but is a major pain of course.

"We" accumulate an amazing amount of stuff in a few decades, most of it really stuff we never use or see or even remember we have.

And when we vacation somewhere, "we" like to buy some knickknack to put in a box somewhere forgotten.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 29, 2020, 05:49:37 PM
SWMBO says "no need" for an induction burner...

...so I might wait a few weeks to buy it ;-) 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2020, 05:54:48 PM
https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Induction-Cooktop-Temperature-CB-I11/dp/B07SYPNR11/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=induction+hot+plate&qid=1593467552&s=apparel&sr=1-3-catcorr (https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Induction-Cooktop-Temperature-CB-I11/dp/B07SYPNR11/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=induction+hot+plate&qid=1593467552&s=apparel&sr=1-3-catcorr)

I don't know if that is a good one or not, but if you click on it, the site gets a few pennies.

We actually bought one at Costco and returned it unused.  My idea was to use the stove that came in the unit and have this to the side.  The wife's idea was to redo the kitchen entirely.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 29, 2020, 06:12:59 PM
Hmm, if it's at Costco I can just claim it was an impulse buy when I go there this week for a grocery run... 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2020, 06:42:05 PM
Costco only had them for a short period of time.  I have not checked that aisle though in a long time.

I think they are very good for sauces because of the very very even heating.  And of course grits are superb when cooked this way.  But they are superb anyway.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2020, 06:43:41 PM
As others noted, it's probably not the meat packing environment that fosters this spread, but the residential aspects of folks who work in them.

Georgia had chicken plant outbreaks also, some quite bad.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 29, 2020, 06:46:44 PM
As others noted, it's probably not the meat packing environment that fosters this spread, but the residential aspects of folks who work in them.

I'd say it's both

but, yes, employees are just a part of the number infected

so, when they determine that employees make up 40-50% of all cases in the county, another 10-20% are family and friends of the employees
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2020, 06:57:45 PM
I toured a chicken facility once, it was a long time ago, but the workers were heavily covered with PPE.  I doubt they would spread the virus while working, perhaps they could on break or after hours, but they often live in crowded situations so they can send as much money as possible back to their families.

I didn't eat chicken for a few months after my tour.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on June 29, 2020, 08:30:43 PM
I toured a chicken facility once, it was a long time ago, but the workers were heavily covered with PPE.  I doubt they would spread the virus while working, perhaps they could on break or after hours, but they often live in crowded situations so they can send as much money as possible back to their families.

I didn't eat chicken for a few months after my tour.


Yeah, I have no desire to get a behind the scenes look at how animals become our food.  I’d just as soon naively consume them and not ask questions.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 29, 2020, 10:00:18 PM
no one wants to know about hot dogs
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2020, 05:55:45 AM
The wife said her cholesterol numbers were up a bit and her doc suggested she limit her intake, which often doesn't work very well.  Your body normally produces 70% of the cholesterol you need, and if you limit your diet, your body just makes more, often.  The statins are pretty effective.  She's going to try dieting, which means I'm going to try dieting.  I like shrimp and beef a lot, unfortunately.  And butter.

My numbers are fine.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2020, 07:33:05 AM
I was reading an article about gun violence in Chicago, and ways to stop it.

Ways to stop it? First, let's start by not calling it "gun" violence. It's GANG violence, and if the thugs didn't have guns they would use knives, clubs, chuka sticks, whatever.

These people need to be given options for reform. If they choose to not reform, it's jail time.

Being in a GANG should be a felony in itself, because membership indicates a willingness to violently attack another human being and/or proprty.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2020, 07:37:43 AM
How would one define being in a gang, legally?

"I am not in no gang."

"Yes you are."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2020, 07:41:56 AM
There are many ways gang members identify themselves. There are also cameras at every corner. These people are all known.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2020, 07:46:35 AM
The new boss, Superintendent Brown, came to Chicago from Dallas. I wonder if he's thought about going back? He's also got a State's Attorney and judges working against him. Tough job.


While Brown spent much of his news conference calling for stricter enforcement of gun and drug laws — repeatedly referring to shooters as “evil bastards” — he also acknowledged how hard it is to police the problem away.

“That’s why they’re there — to feed their families,” he said. “It’s a bad choice. But without the help of mentors in my neighborhood, I would have been one of these kids.”

Brown called himself a “community policing person,” and said he believes officers who arrest young people need to use the ride to jail as an opportunity for mentoring. “We have to offer them options,” he said. “If we say, ‘Get off the corner and stop the behavior of selling drugs, carrying a gun,' we have to be able as a city to say, ‘And let me introduce you to an option that will help you provide for your family.‘”

Still, Brown said he believes too many people arrested on drug and gun charges are being released on low bonds or on electronic monitoring — a criticism several of his predecessors regularly voiced. He called drug dealing and possessing guns “precursors to violence.”


“When they have no consequence, violence continues,” he said. “Our endgame is arrest. … Every day we’re going to be clearing corners, every day we’re going to be clearing these drug corners to protect these young people from violence.”


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2020, 07:47:23 AM
There is a difference between "known" and what one can prove in court.

I'm not sure how being a member of an organization could be deemed illegal.  

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2020, 08:03:04 AM
All ideas are welcome. Years of failed policy said so.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 30, 2020, 08:30:17 AM
You can't get a more failed idea than trying to improve people's lives via constant incarceration
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2020, 08:32:30 AM
You can't get a more failed idea than trying to improve people's lives via constant incarceration
Trying to improve the lives of the innocent bystanders may require constant incarceration.

The prisons obviously are not good at reducing recidivism.  My Dad actually had this job back in the day.
But someone in prison isn't going to shoot innocent bystanders.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2020, 08:32:53 AM
You can't get a more failed idea than trying to improve people's lives via constant incarceration
I agree. You give them options.

If they choose to not reform, then it's jail, for the safety of others.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2020, 08:37:17 AM
I think they would CHOOSE reform, every time, if you asked them and gave them the choice.

And the operate as before out on the streets.

This was the basis for the 3 strikes law, which unfortunately led to some abuses.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 30, 2020, 08:38:28 AM
Trying to improve the lives of the innocent bystanders may require constant incarceration.

The prisons obviously are not good at reducing recidivism.  My Dad actually had this job back in the day.
But someone in prison isn't going to shoot innocent bystanders.
That's always the theory and in practice it never really works. Illinois incarcerates loads and loads of people, and many out of Chicago, with no real impact. Every corner they clear is a market opportunity for someone else.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 30, 2020, 08:39:47 AM
I agree. You give them options.

If they choose to not reform, then it's jail, for the safety of others.
Options would require some more heavy lifting. They tried busing kids to better schools, but that meet with a lot of resistance.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2020, 08:40:09 AM
That's always the theory and in practice it never really works. Illinois incarcerates loads and loads of people, and many out of Chicago, with no real impact. Every corner they clear is a market opportunity for someone else.
I'd like to hear some ideas on this. What Kim Foxx and her band of judges are doing in Chicago is clearly not working.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2020, 08:41:23 AM
Options would require some more heavy lifting. They tried busing kids to better schools, but that meet with a lot of resistance.
Improvement in their neighborhoods would be a great start. Reform in the CPS would be good, starting with busting the CTU.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2020, 08:48:21 AM
What is the primary source of funding for gangs?

Bueller?

Take that away from them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2020, 08:57:23 AM
What is the primary source of funding for gangs?

Bueller?

Take that away from them.
Drug money. From what I read, the drugs mostly come from Mexico. Some (meth) are manufactured in basements, but that accounts for very little of what is sold on the streets. Meth seems to be a white suburb thing, at least around here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2020, 09:00:08 AM
Money drives behavior.  Take away their source of money.  Legalize drugs, have dispensaries around the 'hood and elsewhere.

That war is not only lost, it's debilitating our neighborhoods.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2020, 09:08:00 AM
Opioids, crack and heroine are not going to become legal.

Pot is legal in Chicago, so long as it's bought at a store and not on the street (think taxes).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2020, 09:10:50 AM
You asked for a solution, that is mine.

I realize it is not likely to happen.

The illegal drug thing is the most important aspect of fostering gangs in my view.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2020, 09:18:08 AM
Practical ideas are welcome. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2020, 09:20:00 AM
Of course, there are problems with no practical solutions, we just have to live with them as best we may.

There is no "solution" for this one.  Nothing is going to alter the core dynamics until the money is severed.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2020, 09:35:22 AM
So, I mentioned most of the drugs come through Mexico. I wonder how that could be solved.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 30, 2020, 09:36:49 AM
How would one define being in a gang, legally?

"I am not in no gang."

"Yes you are."
I don't think it matters much, thanks to the RICO laws. The FEDS use the same laws on the gangs that they used to crush the Italian mafia.

I think between terrorism and Russia bullshit- the FBI just really hasn't been as focused on organized crime/gangs as it should be.

There was a time in the late 70s, 80s, and early 90s when that's all the FBI was doing basically- going after organized crime. They pretty much hammered the mafia into smithereens. They need to go after the street gangs with the same force and veracity that they went after the mafia.

I think the mafia regulated those street gangs basically. They put a squeeze and lid on them all, and once the FEDS took the mafia out it's become a wild west. And they aren't cracking down on the street gangs the way they cracked down on the mob. Not even close.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on June 30, 2020, 09:40:33 AM
So, I mentioned most of the drugs come through Mexico. I wonder how that could be solved.
wall won't do much imo. the cartels have secret tunnels to smuggle alot of their drugs in. walls aren't going to stop the tunnels, and cartels also just drive right through the legal entry points in vehicles with hidden compartments filled with drugs. And vast majority of their drugs are smuggled into the country through the water. I think it's something like 90% of all drugs.

I hear people talk about the wall stopping immigration all the time- but over 2/3rds of all illegals are people who come over here on airplanes and just over-stay their visas. wall isn't going to do shit to stop that either.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2020, 09:45:59 AM
Where there is demand, there will be supply.  I can't think of an exception (if the item demanded exists).

I'm reading a book about the Silk Road.  At one point, some Roman emperor passed a law that men could not wear silk.  He wanted to cut demand.

Needless to say ...

The Chinese tried to keep the source of silk a secret.  Needless to say ...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2020, 09:48:05 AM
wall won't do much imo. the cartels have secret tunnels to smuggle alot of their drugs in. walls aren't going to stop the tunnels, and cartels also just drive right through the legal entry points in vehicles with hidden compartments filled with drugs. And vast majority of their drugs are smuggled into the country through the water. I think it's something like 90% of all drugs.

I hear people talk about the wall stopping immigration all the time- but over 2/3rds of all illegals are people who come over here on airplanes and just over-stay their visas. wall isn't going to do shit to stop that either.

Need a wall and widespread use of ground penetrating radar, cameras and drones. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 30, 2020, 09:49:06 AM
and supporting the Coast Guard to guard the coasts
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2020, 09:49:46 AM
We have a long coast line.

I read some book, fiction, about drug dudes dropping packages out of light planes into a marshy area where it would be picked up by folks on the ground.

Struck me as pretty clever, and very very hard to interdict.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2020, 10:39:43 AM
Does keeping drugs illegal limit availability?  Probably to a degree, but users have to come up with money for the drugs which leads to petty crime in most cases, doing anything they can to get $25 bucks for whatever., theft, prostitution, joining gangs, ...  The gangs control the trade obviously, and fight for turf, leading to drive bys.  The users still get stoned, hooked, devastated, etc.

Who are we protecting here?  What are the repercussions to all this effort?  Is the effort worth the expense and secondary ramifications?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 30, 2020, 11:16:57 AM
I think the repercussions of allowing the masses to ruin their lives with drugs without limiting it and deterrents would be worse.

Think the Chinese on opium
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2020, 11:42:16 AM
We can't keep drugs out of PRISONS, and you think a wall, the Coast Guard, etc is going to stop them from coming into the US?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2020, 11:48:42 AM
I think the repercussions of allowing the masses to ruin their lives with drugs without limiting it and deterrents would be worse.

Think the Chinese on opium
I'm not talking about no limits, obviously.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2020, 11:49:12 AM
We can't keep drugs out of PRISONS, and you think a wall, the Coast Guard, etc is going to stop them from coming into the US?
That's because prisons are run by corrupt (and union protected) dirty cops. Don't even get me started on that. I know a former prison warden who quit because he couldn't handle the corruption in those places. Lots of stories, and none of them are good.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2020, 11:53:39 AM
That's because prisons are run by corrupt (and union protected) dirty cops. Don't even get me started on that. I know a former prison warden who quit because he couldn't handle the corruption in those places. Lots of stories, and none of them are good.
And the Border Patrol is free of corruption?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2020, 11:55:23 AM
I don't know, but I doubt it's as rampant. I'm sure there are some who steal drugs and weapons from people who cross.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 30, 2020, 11:55:39 AM
is any government agency free of corruption?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 30, 2020, 11:55:44 AM
When you want something to work, you assume the best in people, no matter the contrary evidence.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 30, 2020, 11:56:53 AM
I don't know, but I doubt it's as rampant. I'm sure there are some who steal drugs and weapons from people who cross.
Higher volume of people/goods/drugs and no cameras....yeah, I bet they're saintly.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 30, 2020, 11:59:12 AM
So, I mentioned most of the drugs come through Mexico. I wonder how that could be solved.
It's like you're oblivious to reality.

Stats show legalizing drugs, even the bad ones, is a net positive for the society.  
Stats show walls don't work.

THE REALITY SHOWS YOUR HEAD IS IN THE SAND WHEN IT COMES TO FACTS YOU DISAGREE WITH.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2020, 12:00:02 PM
Portugal is running an interesting experiment with their drug decriminalization, and they are being reasonably successful.  And the percentage of people addicted hasn't gone up.

I don't know why it doesn't get more attention.

https://www.statista.com/chart/20616/key-developments-since-portugal-decriminalized-drugs/ (https://www.statista.com/chart/20616/key-developments-since-portugal-decriminalized-drugs/)

https://www.drugpolicy.org/resource/drug-decriminalization-portugal-learning-health-and-human-centered-approach (https://www.drugpolicy.org/resource/drug-decriminalization-portugal-learning-health-and-human-centered-approach)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2020, 12:00:54 PM
The blanket assertion that "wall don't work" strikes me as over broad.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 30, 2020, 12:02:23 PM
The blanket assertion that "wall don't work" strikes me as over broad.
You're right.  Let me specify.


The longer the wall is, the less effective it is.  
Oh, and the existing new wall that has been put up is being mocked by the traffickers already, and is ineffective.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 30, 2020, 12:03:29 PM
a wall is similar to a mask

it doesn't contain everything and solve the problem, but it certainly can help
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 30, 2020, 12:05:11 PM
I love the colloquial drug experts act as if the deadliest drug of all isn't legal.  I doubt they'd have such ire towards moonshiners and speakeasies.  We won't mention why, because that would be impolite.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 30, 2020, 12:06:02 PM
a wall is similar to a mask

it doesn't contain everything and solve the problem, but it certainly can help
...but it doesn't.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2020, 12:10:47 PM
The merits of a wall depend of course on the wall and its intended use.  Many walls are effective for their intended use.  They won't be effective at everything.

The oft maligned Maginot Line (not a wall) was effective.  The Great Wall of China was of limited effectiveness.  Hadrian's Wall was probably somewhat effective even thought you can traverse it at many points rather easily.  The walls of Constantinople were effective for centuries.  Walled towns are much harder to assault that those without walls.

The ancients didn't put all that energy into walls and walled cities because they were pretty.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 30, 2020, 12:11:16 PM
so the Border Agents patrol the entire border instead of a portion of it doesn't help?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2020, 12:12:40 PM
Portugal is running an interesting experiment with their drug decriminalization, and they are being reasonably successful.  And the percentage of people addicted hasn't gone up.

I don't know why it doesn't get more attention.

https://www.statista.com/chart/20616/key-developments-since-portugal-decriminalized-drugs/ (https://www.statista.com/chart/20616/key-developments-since-portugal-decriminalized-drugs/)

https://www.drugpolicy.org/resource/drug-decriminalization-portugal-learning-health-and-human-centered-approach (https://www.drugpolicy.org/resource/drug-decriminalization-portugal-learning-health-and-human-centered-approach)
The money from people who would hype it (people who could legally make money off drugs) doesn't exist, because there is no entrenched industry and very few of them want to put their names on it. The organized folks who would hype it (libertarian think tanks and publications) are few and far between enough that nobody listens to them. 

The money from people who would want to kill this, i.e. the police unions (who want more police for more union dues so want things illegal), the private prison lobby (who want more prisoners to fill their prisons), the politicians (who want to be seen as "tough on crime"), and the private prohibitionists (oh, won't someone think of the CHILDREN?!?!) are organized and highly motivated to see nothing change. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 30, 2020, 12:14:35 PM
why does the state of California have a fence on the border on both sides of the 805 coming out of Tijuana?

doesn't help at all
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 30, 2020, 12:16:14 PM
The merits of a wall depend of course on the wall and its intended use.  Many walls are effective for their intended use.  They won't be effective at everything.

The oft maligned Maginot Line (not a wall) was effective.  The Great Wall of China was of limited effectiveness.  Hadrian's Wall was probably somewhat effective even thought you can traverse it at many points rather easily.  The walls of Constantinople were effective for centuries.  Walled towns are much harder to assault that those without walls.
No one is assaulting the walls.  They're sneaking a package through/over/under.  They're sneaking 130 lb people through, 1 at a time.  
I mean, all this money we're spending on a piecemeal, ineffective wall....we could be giving a tax break to the extremely wealthy!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 30, 2020, 12:19:34 PM
why does the state of California have a fence on the border on both sides of the 805 coming out of Tijuana?

doesn't help at all
This is the hill you want to die on?

The literal answer to your question is to make Mexicans walk a little further before they cross.  
The broader answer is that if a fence or wall has an end, you simply go around.  A gap - you go through.  If it doesn't have either, you go over or under or through.  It's a path of least resistance thing, obviously.  

They simply don't want that least resistant path to be in front of American drivers on the 805 for the illusion of safety.  We all know about that - the illusion.  

You're smarter than this and you're letting your politics get in the way.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 30, 2020, 12:20:20 PM
No one is assaulting the walls.  They're sneaking a package through/over/under.  They're sneaking 130 lb people through, 1 at a time. 
I mean, all this money we're spending on a piecemeal, ineffective wall....we could be giving a tax break to the extremely wealthy!
oh, don't worry, there's plenty of money left for that!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 30, 2020, 12:21:14 PM
This is the hill you want to die on?

The literal answer to your question is to make Mexicans walk a little further before they cross. 
The broader answer is that if a fence or wall has an end, you simply go around.  A gap - you go through.  If it doesn't have either, you go over or under or through.  It's a path of least resistance thing, obviously. 

They simply don't want that least resistant path to be in front of American drivers on the 805 for the illusion of safety.  We all know about that - the illusion. 

You're smarter than this and you're letting your politics get in the way. 
BINGO

you got it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on June 30, 2020, 12:23:36 PM
The new boss, Superintendent Brown, came to Chicago from Dallas. I wonder if he's thought about going back? He's also got a State's Attorney and judges working against him. Tough job.


While Brown spent much of his news conference calling for stricter enforcement of gun and drug laws — repeatedly referring to shooters as “evil bastards” — he also acknowledged how hard it is to police the problem away.

“That’s why they’re there — to feed their families,” he said. “It’s a bad choice. But without the help of mentors in my neighborhood, I would have been one of these kids.”

Brown called himself a “community policing person,” and said he believes officers who arrest young people need to use the ride to jail as an opportunity for mentoring. “We have to offer them options,” he said. “If we say, ‘Get off the corner and stop the behavior of selling drugs, carrying a gun,' we have to be able as a city to say, ‘And let me introduce you to an option that will help you provide for your family.‘”

Still, Brown said he believes too many people arrested on drug and gun charges are being released on low bonds or on electronic monitoring — a criticism several of his predecessors regularly voiced. He called drug dealing and possessing guns “precursors to violence.”


“When they have no consequence, violence continues,” he said. “Our endgame is arrest. … Every day we’re going to be clearing corners, every day we’re going to be clearing these drug corners to protect these young people from violence.”



That quote reminds me of much of the plot of a TV show in the early 2000s based on the experience of a person in the early 1990s. Clear corners, arrest, arrest, arrest, et al.

Seems to do little to either help neighborhoods  or lower murder rates.

I don’t have a good answer for the ills of poverty (If I did, I’d have a more important job of saving the world). But at best, I can say this approach likely keeps us at the status quo. Creating opportunities and socialization are both tremendously tall tasks and in a world where incarceration is common, the penalties for violence to get a little more probably don’t seem all that high.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 30, 2020, 12:24:41 PM
BINGO

you got it
:banghead:
And yet somehow, you don't got it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2020, 12:26:00 PM
No one is assaulting the walls.  They're sneaking a package through/over/under.  They're sneaking 130 lb people through, 1 at a time. 
I mean, all this money we're spending on a piecemeal, ineffective wall....we could be giving a tax break to the extremely wealthy!
I was commenting on the assertion that walls don't work, as a blanket statement.

If you want to amend that to assert "Walls are not very effective at interdicting drugs", I wouldn't have an issue.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2020, 12:26:20 PM
:banghead:
And yet somehow, you don't got it
Do you ever consider the possibility that you don't know everything?

You can opine all you want, but the insults need to stop.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 30, 2020, 12:34:14 PM
I was commenting on the assertion that walls don't work, as a blanket statement.

If you want to amend that to assert "Walls are not very effective at interdicting drugs", I wouldn't have an issue.
That point needs to be made, given the topic at hand?  Fun stuff.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 30, 2020, 12:35:21 PM
Now I'm being accused of insults.  Fun stuff.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2020, 12:43:13 PM
That point needs to be made, given the topic at hand?  Fun stuff.
I believe the border wall is intended to serve another function, so claiming it doesn't work strikes me as over broad.

I don't know how well it will work.  I don't have data.  So I have no opinion.  Clearly some walls do work to some degree, depending on the intended purpose.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 30, 2020, 12:54:30 PM
I'd like to ask more than a few Border agents.  You know, the ones that are NOT corrupt.

Do they think the wall serves a purpose and would they like it extended or improved to work better?

Apparently, the governor of California doesn't get it either as there seems to be a fence or some type of apparatus along a high percentage of the Cali/Mexico border to serve as some form of resistance.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2020, 01:01:21 PM
Now I'm being accused of insults.  Fun stuff. 
When you tell me I have my head in the sand, it's insulting. 


Have you seen the plans for the wall? I have, as I was given an RFP to bid on some of the layout work.

There is much more detail to the construction than aesthetics. There are sections along the way, where the soils have limited bearing capacity, that the foundation is as deep, or more, than the wall is high. You'd need one helluva shovel to dig down 40 feet, and then back up on the other side. Oh, and you'd have to trust the bad bearing soils to not cave in and crush/smother you while you're at it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 30, 2020, 01:20:21 PM
When you tell me I have my head in the sand, it's insulting.


Have you seen the plans for the wall? I have, as I was given an RFP to bid on some of the layout work.

There is much more detail to the construction than aesthetics. There are sections along the way, where the soils have limited bearing capacity, that the foundation is as deep, or more, than the wall is high. You'd need one helluva shovel to dig down 40 feet, and then back up on the other side. Oh, and you'd have to trust the bad bearing soils to not cave in and crush/smother you while you're at it.
Your talking to someone who just claimed traffickers are mocking the wall.    So we are to believe he knows traffickers now.

why does ever interview I see with border patrol include their clear support for the wall?

if the wall were the proposal of a Liberal Dem he would be all for it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2020, 01:30:01 PM
CHOP got a wall.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 30, 2020, 01:30:17 PM
Your talking to someone who just claimed traffickers are mocking the wall.    So we are to believe he knows traffickers now.

why does ever interview I see with border patrol include their clear support for the wall?

if the wall were the proposal of a Liberal Dem he would be all for it.
the state of Cali has a fence on the border
I'd guess federal funds were used to erect it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on June 30, 2020, 01:45:42 PM
There is a shell game black people have been in for some time. The game is such: everyone wants to live in a nice neighborhood, and a neighborhood is considered nice when it has few black people.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2020, 01:58:22 PM
why does ever interview I see with border patrol include their clear support for the wall?
The real question is whether a wall will do anything about illegal immigration and/or drug interdiction, or if it'll just make Border Patrol's job easier by moving that stuff AROUND the wall?

I.e. does a wall solve a problem, or does it just move it?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 30, 2020, 02:01:49 PM
...but it doesn't.
When it's completed we'll throw you on the other side take your ID and cell phone and find out for the hell of it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 30, 2020, 02:05:24 PM
And the Border Patrol is free of corruption?
They took their que from Wall Street,Defense contractors and the federal Government
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2020, 02:10:03 PM
The real question is whether a wall will do anything about illegal immigration and/or drug interdiction, or if it'll just make Border Patrol's job easier by moving that stuff AROUND the wall?

I.e. does a wall solve a problem, or does it just move it?
That's a good question. The more I think about this, I really think taking away the gang's funds is the way to go.

A very strong border deterrent and more enforcement personnel will do a lot. I'd venture to guess that the construction costs (amortized) and personnel costs for a five-fold increase in border control personnel would be much cheaper, long term - say 15 years - than the costs for policing (and prosecuting, and medical care, and...) in the big cities would be.

Chicago's police budget for 2020 is $1.8 Billion. Add in all the other ones and you can see where this thing is. Now, if you can reduce this number by half, you've paid for the Federal expenditure, and you are saving lives. The money saved could be put in budgets for neighborhood improvements, education, job training, etc.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 30, 2020, 02:11:43 PM
It's like you're oblivious to reality.

Stats show legalizing drugs, even the bad ones, is a net positive for the society. 
Stats show walls don't work.

THE REALITY SHOWS YOUR HEAD IS IN THE SAND WHEN IT COMES TO FACTS YOU DISAGREE WITH.
And your's is up your ass.Stats show - really? By who and about what - look at the numbers regarding anything the President,Covid,riots,protest.What you meant to say IMO but can't bring yourself to suggest that
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2020, 02:16:57 PM
If you have a strip of land you want to "control", meaning interdict "trespassers", a wall or barrier enables you to do so with fewer boots on the ground.  You could do it by placing some LEO type every ten feet, or whatever, a wall might enable you to stretch that to every 1,000 feet.  It's not meant to be perfect, but like the Maginot Line, it is intended to "secure" a length with fewer troops.

There always are alternative ways around even a perfect wall, but they may be more cumbersome or less efficient, I mentioned dropping bails of drugs out of light planes.  A light plane at night is virtually impossible to detect.  Our normal air traffic control radars require a transponder to work, they won't see your small plane if that is turned off, a simple operation.  Military radar often is of the Doppler type, they only pick up fact moving objects to avoid scatter.  A low flying light plane is going to escape either means of detection.  With GPS, you can hit your drop zone very directly, and someone on the ground picks up the contraband.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 30, 2020, 02:35:13 PM
I- like all of us- have limited resources. 

If I want to keep you and others from invading my house constantly- a wall will not stop you.  But it will definitely make it harder for you, easier for me to leverage my limited resources- and catch you way more often. 

Like anything else, it is tool to increase efficiency but no guarantee

Seems like a good use of my resources until someone gives me a realistic, better idea.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2020, 02:37:51 PM
One thing about a wall for home security is that it makes getting the loot back out problematic as well.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 30, 2020, 02:43:26 PM
That's a good question. The more I think about this, I really think taking away the gang's funds is the way to go.

A very strong border deterrent and more enforcement personnel will do a lot. I'd venture to guess that the construction costs (amortized) and personnel costs for a five-fold increase in border control personnel would be much cheaper, long term - say 15 years - than the costs for policing (and prosecuting, and medical care, and...) in the big cities would be.

Chicago's police budget for 2020 is $1.8 Billion. Add in all the other ones and you can see where this thing is. Now, if you can reduce this number by half, you've paid for the Federal expenditure, and you are saving lives. The money saved could be put in budgets for neighborhood improvements, education, job training, etc.


troops could be stationed in Arizona, new mexico, and Texas instead of propping up the economies of foreign countries

perhaps law enforcement rookies and others could be trained on the border to be less aggressive and more accountable

perhaps drones could be useful
it would be very interesting to me what the effects would be after a 5-10 year very strong attempt at "closing" the border would be.  Understanding clearly that some people and drugs are going to get across no mater what.
if it really didn't change much for the better after 10 years, open it up.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2020, 02:48:05 PM
The financial incentive to get drugs HERE is enormous, obviously.  If one path is narrowed, another will open, and so on.

Whack a Mole, 6.02 x 10^23.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2020, 02:56:46 PM
That's a good question. The more I think about this, I really think taking away the gang's funds is the way to go.

A very strong border deterrent and more enforcement personnel will do a lot. I'd venture to guess that the construction costs (amortized) and personnel costs for a five-fold increase in border control personnel would be much cheaper, long term - say 15 years - than the costs for policing (and prosecuting, and medical care, and...) in the big cities would be.

Chicago's police budget for 2020 is $1.8 Billion. Add in all the other ones and you can see where this thing is. Now, if you can reduce this number by half, you've paid for the Federal expenditure, and you are saving lives. The money saved could be put in budgets for neighborhood improvements, education, job training, etc.


First bold: it's obvious, IMHO. What happened when prohibition ended? The mob violence that sprouted up around illegal liquor disappeared. 

This is what happens with EVERY black market. By definition there is competition between providers, and because they can't go to the police to protect their market they need to have their own hired guns to do so. Once you have a couple of literal armies basically in competition for product sales it becomes a turf war, using violence to settle disputes.

Why doesn't this happen with, say, hamburgers? Because if Burger King hired a bunch of goons to go break the windows out of the competing McDonalds and Wendy's franchisees, the goons would be arrested and those burger chains would sue BK for damages. 

Second bold: Everyone points to all the horrible things that would happen if we legalized drugs. They might get addicted! (News flash, they already are.) Addicts might ruin their lives! (News flash, they already are.) 

But far fewer people point to all the negatives that exist from the War on Drugs. Huge police budgets to handle violence that's caused NOT by the drugs, but by the black market. Huge prison populations and huge cost to incarcerate offenders caused by making the drugs illegal. Huge societal problems when we have underinvestment in certain areas making the drug trade wildly profitable for dealers while going to school and getting out of the 'hood seems like a pipe dream, so young black kids go down that route. Once they get nabbed and have a record? They're screwed down the line as it relates to jobs and finding any other way to better their lives. 

Imagine if we didn't have to spend so many of our tax dollars on enormous police budgets and huge prison budgets for a problem that we've created [and can't ever solve] through prohibition? Could we maybe use that money to help fix some of the societal problems that drugs cause?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2020, 03:04:54 PM
What would you propose, given that 60 years of the same shit isn't working?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 30, 2020, 03:12:56 PM
I'm all for trying something else
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2020, 03:22:58 PM
As am I. I guess at least moving to Florida my local news will be different. So, plus for me.

But that's not the point. This gang stuff needs to stop.

1.5 Million gang members is too many. 2 are too many.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 30, 2020, 03:32:17 PM
killing people needs to stop

killing rival gang members is bad

killing innocent folks living in gang controlled neighborhoods is horrible
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on June 30, 2020, 03:41:46 PM
troops could be stationed in Arizona, new mexico, and Texas instead of propping up the economies of foreign countries
That's agreat point but the tentacles of the corrupt MIC would take a hit.Our treasury is empty because of 3 piece suit wearing POS have convinced Congess they care while inflating the price of their wares.Bring the boys home and put them to work here
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 30, 2020, 03:48:19 PM
do we really need troops in Germany for the next 60 years?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2020, 03:59:44 PM
it would be very interesting to me what the effects would be after a 5-10 year very strong attempt at "closing" the border would be.  Understanding clearly that some people and drugs are going to get across no mater what.

if it really didn't change much for the better after 10 years, open it up.
Nixon started the "war on drugs" in 1971, so we're coming up on 50 years.

All we've done for 50 years is constantly escalate the war on drugs. 

I'd say we're about 40 years too late to call this one lost and move on, by your rationale...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2020, 04:34:36 PM
do we really need troops in Germany for the next 60 years?
We don't have all that many there any more in reality.  The point of them, as with South Korea, is to provide a "guarantee" that we would be in the war if Germany were attacked by say Poland.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 30, 2020, 04:58:06 PM
‘The precinct is on fire’: What happened at Minneapolis’ 3rd Precinct — and what it means

A timeline........

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/06/30/the-precinct-is-on-fire-what-happened-at-minneapolis-3rd-precinct-and-what-it-means (https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/06/30/the-precinct-is-on-fire-what-happened-at-minneapolis-3rd-precinct-and-what-it-means)

It was 9:53 p.m. when a Minneapolis police officer sent out an urgent call to the other officers who remained in the 3rd Precinct.

“We need to move. We need to move,” he shouted over the police radio. 

Protesters were breaking into the back of the station, and officers were preparing to take an unprecedented step in American policing: to abandon their precinct building.

“The front has been breached,” an officer called over the radio just before they fled. “They’re coming in. They’re coming in the back.”

In a dramatic exit, a squad car rammed through a gate near the station in south Minneapolis, leading a motorcade racing from the parking lot. Patrol officers in riot gear left on foot, hurrying past a jeering crowd hurling rocks and fireworks.

_________________________________________________ ___________________________________


Those who advocated for sacrificing the precinct hoped that it would cool tensions. They were wrong.

Friday night was even worse, even though that was the day the Hennepin County Attorney’s Office charged Chauvin with murder.

“It did nothing to quell anything,” Sgt. Sherral Schmidt, a leader of the police union, said of abandoning the station.

Frey said that he can’t know if the outcome would have been different had he acted sooner or tried another strategy. “But, clearly, the murder of George Floyd has sparked a whole lot of anger and sadness,” he said.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 30, 2020, 04:59:59 PM
I'd offer that "guarantee" with those troops in Texas or New Mexico

but, that's just me.

I'm sure if I was offered kickbacks from someone with interests in Germany I may be persuaded
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2020, 05:05:43 PM
There is a difference between a verbal or contractural guarantee and one that is very obviously 100%.

Leaders make miscalculations at times of course as they think "Well, they don't really mean it.".

Hitler was surprised when France and GB actually declared war and stayed in it.  There was no way at the time for them to do much to help Poland, French troops did wonder into Germany for a bit, and then backed up.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on June 30, 2020, 05:21:30 PM
I believe the border wall is intended to serve another function, so claiming it doesn't work strikes me as over broad.

I don't know how well it will work.  I don't have data.  So I have no opinion.  Clearly some walls do work to some degree, depending on the intended purpose.
The wall works to help keep me in a job, the parent company of my company supplies a large part of the steel for the wall. Keep putting that wall up. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on June 30, 2020, 05:28:43 PM
as long as the steel isn't coming from China
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2020, 10:06:31 PM
So the guy who ran against the current Florida governor almost won. He's now in rehab for drug addiction. Serious stuff. He almost won!!

Is this where we are?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 01, 2020, 12:31:23 AM
So the guy who ran against the current Florida governor almost won. He's now in rehab for drug addiction. Serious stuff. He almost won!!

Is this where we are?
For alcohol abuse, which started after his loss. 
If I lost a popularity contest to Ron DeSantis, I'd probably do the same.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 01, 2020, 06:52:13 AM
For alcohol abuse, which started after his loss. 
If I lost a popularity contest to Ron DeSantis, I'd probably do the same.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/fl-ne-andrew-gillum-drugs-hotel-20200422-x5cpq645afbcbfzuydj5pikmsy-story.html%3foutputType=amp

Drugs, alcohol and other men. 

meanwhile- Florida is the number 1 state in the US for people moving in from other states. 

could it be that the state is being well run?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 01, 2020, 07:23:12 AM
So the guy who ran against the current Florida governor almost won. He's now in rehab for drug addiction. Serious stuff. He almost won!!

Is this where we are?
Buddy just look at the White House if you want to know where we are.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 01, 2020, 07:36:54 AM
meanwhile- Florida is the number 1 state in the US for people moving in from other states. 

could it be that the state is being well run?
This is the weakest attempt at...whatever you want to call it...that I've ever seen.  Let's ask realtors how often they're asked about their state's governor.  

Weak.  Do better.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 01, 2020, 08:13:41 AM
For alcohol abuse, which started after his loss. 
If I lost a popularity contest to Ron DeSantis, I'd probably do the same.
Weak, and not factual at all.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 01, 2020, 08:15:32 AM
Buddy just look at the White House if you want to know where we are.

I've been looking at the White (will this be renamed?) House and puking for 15.5 years now.

I hate looking at it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 01, 2020, 08:20:17 AM
This is the hill you want to die on?

The literal answer to your question is to make Mexicans walk a little further before they cross. 
The broader answer is that if a fence or wall has an end, you simply go around.  A gap - you go through.  If it doesn't have either, you go over or under or through.  It's a path of least resistance thing, obviously. 

They simply don't want that least resistant path to be in front of American drivers on the 805 for the illusion of safety.  We all know about that - the illusion. 

You're smarter than this and you're letting your politics get in the way. 
Pot meet kettle. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 01, 2020, 08:37:32 AM
FYI, I thought the constant focus on some big beautiful wall was seriously misplaced.  At the same time, I understand that a suitable barrier is useful on the border.  To think there should be no hindrance at all anywhere strikes me as absurd.

We have barriers on some of the border.  And we probably don't need one on some of the border, and we may need something on more than currently exists.

You really can't build one along the Rio Grande, you'd have to move inland some distance for obvious reasons, and in an area with a flood plain that could be miles, and the flood plain could comprise cities, golf courses, parks, residential areas, farms, whatever.

But I favor sensible barriers along certain portions of the border.  It enables some degree of border control with fewer men.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 01, 2020, 08:40:10 AM
Pot meet kettle.
Bullshit, it's an idiotic fix to an invented problem.  It's plainly a bad idea.  It's another folly to placate his base.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 01, 2020, 08:47:37 AM
Bullshit, it's an idiotic fix to an invented problem.  It's plainly a bad idea.  It's another folly to placate his base.
I don't post here much, but I read through the threads almost daily. The one thing I have noticed is that YOU seem to have an opinion about everything and everyone. You also don't hide your politics and how you despise those politicians that you don't vote for. 

My comment was that you are letting YOUR politics dictate your positions while accusing others of doing the same. And the fact that you are so adamant about your reply, shows that I've struck a nerve. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 01, 2020, 09:30:58 AM
Anyone else getting excited for the start of The Basketball Tournament this weekend? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 01, 2020, 09:34:00 AM
I'll check it out. I'm sure ESecPN is excited for some content. They have all the games, right?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 01, 2020, 09:35:53 AM
I'll check it out. I'm sure ESecPN is excited for some content. They have all the games, right?
Yes. I think there's a former Badger or two playing? 

I'm excited for the first year that a Purdue alumni team has participated, the Men of Mackey. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 01, 2020, 09:47:02 AM
I'll have to check and see what team the former Badgers are on. I know Ethan Happ is playing. Kahlil Iverson too. 

Last year they had a full team, with a couple from UW's Milwaukee and Green Bay too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 01, 2020, 10:03:31 AM
And the fact that you are so adamant about your reply, shows that I've struck a nerve.
I'm not sure how you gauge how adamant my post is.  BS is BS.  How else does one address it?  lol
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 01, 2020, 10:07:44 AM
I'm pretty adamant most of the time.

Incidentally, and vis a vis nothing, the smallest possible diamond is a molecule called adamantane.  All the bond angles are "ideal" which makes it hard to compress.  It "likes" being that way.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZTBXjkz.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 01, 2020, 10:25:33 AM
Solutions wanted.


A 3-year-old girl was shot in the chest outside her home in West Englewood Tuesday night when a gunman opened fire into a yard filled with children, apparently in retaliation for a shooting minutes earlier six blocks away that wounded a 15-year-old boy, according to Chicago police.

The shootings continue one of the most violent stretches of gun violence against children in Chicago. Three days earlier (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-chicago-weekend-violence-20200629-yulatmt62ractesnatw4beizpq-story.html), a 20-month-old boy was killed, also in Englewood, and a 10-year-old girl was fatally shot. A week earlier (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-chicago-weekend-violence-shootings-20200622-ghaioius2zhdpdsbsan4k2g2vu-story.html), five children were shot and killed in Chicago, including a 3-year-old boy.

“This is not and this cannot be our new normal,” said Chicago police Chief of Operations Fred Waller, echoing remarks of the mayor and the police superintendent over the last few weeks. “Where is the outrage? Our babies are being shot. These are our babies.”
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 01, 2020, 10:27:03 AM
1.  Defund the police.
2.  Send in social workers.
3.  Fund night basketball.
4.  End the war on drugs.
5.  Throw money at it.
6.  Announce some new program with a fancy sounding name that does nothing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 01, 2020, 11:01:52 AM
This is the weakest attempt at...whatever you want to call it...that I've ever seen.  Let's ask realtors how often they're asked about their state's governor. 

Weak.  Do better.
Weakest attempt at “ whatever”.  Lol. You sound  like an aspiring presidential candidate.  The thing... uh...um...

You try to say that DeSantis is not a popular governor. Well you should start drinking now because you would quickly and decisively lose a popularity contest to him. He is very popular here in Florida I assure you. And you want to talk about realtors? Now you’re in my business and I talk to many many many realtors every single week

People are moving here for two primary reasons, one there is no personal income tax in two it is extremely healthy business environment. The economy here is super strong relatively speaking.

and our death rate for Covid is also very very good despite what Fredo over on CNN might be barking about

As you like to tell everybody, try hard or you can do better
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 01, 2020, 11:58:44 AM
I'd specify that your first reason has been the case long before DeSantis and the actual #2 is the weather.
But then that would just be me being a know-it-all again.  Gross.

My dad should post here, not me.  It's his birthday today.  He's like a lot of you - just wants a comfy chair and to not be challenged on anything.  Might as well call this section Area 51, ffs.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 01, 2020, 12:02:43 PM

Best to just ignore Fro, instead of showering him with the attention that he so desperately craves. 

When he invokes a reaction, he wins; irrespective of the nature of the reaction. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 01, 2020, 12:02:56 PM
I'd specify that your first reason has been the case long before DeSantis and the actual #2 is the weather.
California is one of the net [domestic] migration OUT states. I'd argue the weather here is significantly better than Florida. 

So I'd argue it's much more related to taxes and business climate than weather. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 01, 2020, 12:07:15 PM
California is one of the net [domestic] migration OUT states. I'd argue the weather here is significantly better than Florida.

So I'd argue it's much more related to taxes and business climate than weather.
Okay, I'll let the millions of retirees know.
Arizona, Texas, and Vegas (NV) are all high on the list, so the real reason people are moving to anywhere and away from anywhere is
1. Taxes
2. Taxes
3. Taxes
4. Weather
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 01, 2020, 12:20:35 PM
I'd agree with that.

I'd say it's also more than taxes; it's general cost of living (real estate, gas prices, food prices, etc). Which is bad in CA too. 

I do think weather is important, but all those things are more important.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 01, 2020, 12:26:04 PM
I was led to believe DeSantis is the reason people are flocking to FL in droves, as if they haven't been for 20 years now.  But I'm probably wrong again.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on July 01, 2020, 12:29:31 PM
I do wonder if the tax laws will change in Florida as the % of population from the Northeast continues to climb...  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 01, 2020, 12:36:04 PM
I do wonder if the tax laws will change in Florida as the % of population from the Northeast continues to climb... 
Floridians do NOT like those people. I'm a newly minted Floridian, escaping taxes and high cost of living. I'll certainly enjoy the winter months more than Illinois, for sure.

I picked Florida for two reasons. Lower taxes/costs and plenty of blue water to boat on (which I do have here for half a year).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on July 01, 2020, 01:10:02 PM
Sorry UM, OSU and PSU, no helmet status for you :)

https://twitter.com/ESPNCFB/status/1278125250010644480?s=20
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 01, 2020, 01:21:56 PM
PSA -- Every house should have some PBW (powdered brewery wash) on hand.

I ordered my wife new mixing bowls because she found herself exceeding capacity on the 5.5 qt bowls we had. So I ordered 8 qt and 12 qt stainless bowls.

The 12 qt arrived yesterday, and the little product placard was attached by some of the toughest glue I've ever encountered. Tried a soak in hot soapy water and scrubbing both with a sponge and with a ringmail scrubber I use for cast iron. No luck. Tried isopropyl alcohol. No luck. Tried the hot soapy water again. No luck.

This morning I let it soak in hot water & PBW for about an hour, and then went at it with the sponge, and it cleaned right up nicely.

It now officially IMHO makes the "miracle fix" list:


Seriously, pick some up. It's one of the best cleaners for stainless steel I've ever used.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 01, 2020, 02:30:19 PM
I do wonder if the tax laws will change in Florida as the % of population from the Northeast continues to climb... 
I wonder the same thing in Texico, although it's more a case of Californians, rather than folks from the NE, that are moving here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 01, 2020, 02:35:57 PM
Cali folk are screwing up Arizona, Nevada and Idaho too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 01, 2020, 02:36:35 PM
I picked Florida for two reasons. Lower taxes/costs and plenty of blue water to boat on (which I do have here for half a year).
And great football?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 01, 2020, 02:47:28 PM
And great football?
For sure, you gotta love those Seminoles!  Burt Reynolds played there!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 01, 2020, 02:56:05 PM
And great football?
Not a factor, but I did make sure I can get BTN for 2021, when football starts up again.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 01, 2020, 03:02:29 PM
Sorry UM, OSU and PSU, no helmet status for you :)

https://twitter.com/ESPNCFB/status/1278125250010644480?s=20
Wow. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 01, 2020, 03:15:23 PM
Weather was a primary concern for me, but not to the point I wanted to deal with California or Hawaii taxation.  Atlanta sales tax is 9% which is a bite.  We started going to a different Costco to save a few pennies on that rate as we usually spend $400 or so each trip.

We just went this morning, had a nice lunch at a beautiful place on the river, first time there.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on July 01, 2020, 05:32:40 PM
Wow.
Every little bit helps, and several MSU commits/target have Tweeted their notice that MSU is a playable school.  It's not nothing, certainly a help.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on July 01, 2020, 05:33:16 PM
For sure, you gotta love those Seminoles!  Burt Reynolds played there!
And Corso!  And Weinke!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 01, 2020, 05:45:53 PM
And Corso!  And Weinke!
Yeah I don't care so much about them.

They're not The Bandit.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on July 01, 2020, 06:00:08 PM
Yeah I don't care so much about them.

They're not The Bandit.
Did Jackie Gleason go to UF?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 01, 2020, 06:16:16 PM
Hmmmmm not that I know of...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 01, 2020, 06:26:13 PM
Every little bit helps, and several MSU commits/target have Tweeted their notice that MSU is a playable school.  It's not nothing, certainly a help.
I’d be really interested in hearing the reasoning behind MSU being included and the other 3, particularly Ohio St, not being included.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 01, 2020, 06:28:26 PM
I just noticed Bama wasn’t included either. What’s up with that?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 01, 2020, 06:40:50 PM
Two possible things:



After the O'Bannon ruling (which killed EA NCAA Football franchise) it's possible some schools don't even want to touch this. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 01, 2020, 08:59:29 PM
Every little bit helps, and several MSU commits/target have Tweeted their notice that MSU is a playable school.  It's not nothing, certainly a help.
The “wow” wasn’t sarcastic. I was surprised to see MSU in there over the other teams in the Big Ten.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on July 01, 2020, 10:53:36 PM
I’d be really interested in hearing the reasoning behind MSU being included and the other 3, particularly Ohio St, not being included.
Apparently they had it last year as well.  They took out FSU and TT, and replaced them with MSU and Nebraska.  So no Big Ten at all last year.  Maybe it does have to do with school permission?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2020, 12:03:41 AM
Weather was a primary concern for me, but not to the point I wanted to deal with California or Hawaii taxation.  Atlanta sales tax is 9% which is a bite.  We started going to a different Costco to save a few pennies on that rate as we usually spend $400 or so each trip.

We just went this morning, had a nice lunch at a beautiful place on the river, first time there.
I know it's just anecdotal and a decade+ apart, but Florida is much nicer with the 6% sales tax where I was compared to Arizona sucking with a 9% rate.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2020, 12:12:02 AM
Did Jackie Gleason go to UF?
UF Alumni of this ilk:
Faye Dunaway
Buddy Ebsen
Bob Vila
Stephen Stills
Darrell Hammond
Forrest Sawyer
Red Barber
Mel Tillis

many astronauts
tons of athletes, lawyers, and politicians (yuck)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 02, 2020, 09:01:54 AM
https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/College-football-bowl-results-momentum-carry-to-next-season-148719319/ (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/College-football-bowl-results-momentum-carry-to-next-season-148719319/)

Some discussion about "bowl win momentum", most of this we already knew.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 02, 2020, 10:52:09 AM
Cali folk are screwing up Arizona, Nevada and Idaho too.
They’re doing this by just leaving California? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 02, 2020, 10:56:48 AM
They’re doing this by just leaving California?


No. They are doing that by bringing with them the same ideology that led to the high taxes, ect, that drove them out of Cali in the first place. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 02, 2020, 11:40:25 AM

No. They are doing that by bringing with them the same ideology that led to the high taxes, ect, that drove them out of Cali in the first place.
Heh, that is one angle.

I’d be interested to see the makeup of folks leaving California. Does it match the state’s 60-35 percent left-right profile? Is it retirees? Artists? Young families?

The larger thing is even if the taxes were low, there’s probably still a decent number of departures. Perhaps it’s more intra-State than inter-State. The issue is that populated parts of the state remain absurdly desirable, for whatever reason. Economics tells us this.

I hope lots of folks in the state suddenly decide the taxes are too much, but for some reason, they just don’t. 

(I also don’t have much sympathy for Nevada or Arizona. Your states have long been built on transplants. Them’s the breaks. I’d have to look closer at Idaho)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 02, 2020, 11:43:51 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/MwaKnp3.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2020, 11:45:35 AM
what "expert" came up with that graph?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 02, 2020, 11:48:47 AM
https://capsweb.org/news/californias-population-getting-grayer-new-projections-show/ (https://capsweb.org/news/californias-population-getting-grayer-new-projections-show/)

Their population rate of growth is slowing, but it is still positive.

(https://i.imgur.com/HyJ1XjU.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 02, 2020, 11:52:18 AM
I'd mentioned net domestic migration has been negative.

Meaning that Americans tend to be leaving California at a higher rate than Americans are entering. Net overall migration can still be positive if foreign immigrants are coming into California at high enough numbers to overcome the domestic deficit. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 02, 2020, 11:55:54 AM
The top state tax bracket is 13.3% on income.  It hits 8% at only $40,000 of income, which isn't enough to live in much of CA.  Housing of course is expensive near any of the major cities, and not really cheap elsewhere.  The middle class are getting squeezed.  The uber wealthy don't care.  If a lot of middle class folks move out, one might expect to see a drop in housing prices for 3 bedroom type homes in the 'burbs, but they seem to go higher still.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 02, 2020, 11:57:53 AM
I'd mentioned net domestic migration has been negative.

Meaning that Americans tend to be leaving California at a higher rate than Americans are entering. Net overall migration can still be positive if foreign immigrants are coming into California at high enough numbers to overcome the domestic deficit.
Also people having kids. 

The part of the state where I’m from grows more and more crowded every year despite a number of drawbacks. I’m not a fan of the trend. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 02, 2020, 12:05:38 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/dsqBBHt.png)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2020, 12:06:31 PM
The top state tax bracket is 13.3% on income.  It hits 8% at only $40,000 of income, which isn't enough to live in much of CA.  Housing of course is expensive near any of the major cities, and not really cheap elsewhere.  The middle class are getting squeezed.  The uber wealthy don't care.  If a lot of middle class folks move out, one might expect to see a drop in housing prices for 3 bedroom type homes in the 'burbs, but they seem to go higher still.
some of the uber wealthy care

Phil Mikelson is moving to Florida - very clear that it's to escape taxes
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 02, 2020, 12:07:15 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/s9obckg.png)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 02, 2020, 12:08:21 PM
some of the uber wealthy care

Phil Mikelson is moving to Florida - very clear that it's to escape taxes
High earned income people care, yes.  Wealthy people without much earned income care a lot less.

Generally, a person worth say $100 million will not have significant earned income.  I should know.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 02, 2020, 12:13:18 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/lTGq8w6.png)

Tis is just for one year.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 02, 2020, 12:14:55 PM
The ATL metro area:

(https://i.imgur.com/9zwW6pJ.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 02, 2020, 12:22:41 PM
The top state tax bracket is 13.3% on income.  It hits 8% at only $40,000 of income, which isn't enough to live in much of CA.  Housing of course is expensive near any of the major cities, and not really cheap elsewhere.  The middle class are getting squeezed.  The uber wealthy don't care.  If a lot of middle class folks move out, one might expect to see a drop in housing prices for 3 bedroom type homes in the 'burbs, but they seem to go higher still.
The top marginal rate for nearly everyone in the middle to upper middle class is either 8.0% or 9.3%. Single people would mostly be at 9.3 because that kicks in at $57K, but a lot of married couples in the state would remain at 8% because you need >$115K to hit the 9.3 bracket.

To start hitting above 9.3% you need to be at almost $300K income as an individual and almost $600K for married filing jointly. Heck, *I'm* not even in that group!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 02, 2020, 12:24:14 PM
Heh, that is one angle.

I’d be interested to see the makeup of folks leaving California. Does it match the state’s 60-35 percent left-right profile? Is it retirees? Artists? Young families?

The larger thing is even if the taxes were low, there’s probably still a decent number of departures. Perhaps it’s more intra-State than inter-State. The issue is that populated parts of the state remain absurdly desirable, for whatever reason. Economics tells us this.

I hope lots of folks in the state suddenly decide the taxes are too much, but for some reason, they just don’t.

(I also don’t have much sympathy for Nevada or Arizona. Your states have long been built on transplants. Them’s the breaks. I’d have to look closer at Idaho)

Idaho was not built off of transplants. 

I am right where Utah, Nevada and Arizona all intersect, and it is mostly retirees that sell their house in California for millions and then they move here where they can live like a king for a fraction of the price. So on the plus side they aren't going to be raising up a generation just like them, as they are already empty nesters by the time that they get here. 

We have watched them destroy their own state to the point where they can't even stand to live there anymore, but then they don't learn their lesson. Instead they try the same thing in their new home, expecting different results. They have already wrecked Colorado, and we don't want any part of it. 

In Idaho most of them move to the Sun Valley area. Most people in the state are quite friendly and will help you in anyway that they can if you ask, but they will glance at your licence plates first and if you are from that county then their cordiality goes out the window. You are on your own. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 02, 2020, 01:43:51 PM
Idaho was not built off of transplants.

I am right where Utah, Nevada and Arizona all intersect, and it is mostly retirees that sell their house in California for millions and then they move here where they can live like a king for a fraction of the price. So on the plus side they aren't going to be raising up a generation just like them, as they are already empty nesters by the time that they get here.

We have watched them destroy their own state to the point where they can't even stand to live there anymore, but then they don't learn their lesson. Instead they try the same thing in their new home, expecting different results. They have already wrecked Colorado, and we don't want any part of it.

In Idaho most of them move to the Sun Valley area. Most people in the state are quite friendly and will help you in anyway that they can if you ask, but they will glance at your licence plates first and if you are from that county then their cordiality goes out the window. You are on your own.

California has been destroyed? That seems highly untrue.

It seems to be inflicted with all the trappings of our of control prosperity. That’s not great. But it seems unlikely that’s the result of policy. (And if the policies of where you live make it less desirable to inhabit, well that is what it is I suppose).

And if you’re friendly and helpful, but you’ll make assumptions about someone because of where they live, I don’t think you’re actually that friendly at all.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 02, 2020, 02:06:34 PM

I am glad that you are one of the Californians that is content to stay put. 

Unfortunately a lot of others are fleeing like rats from a sinking ship. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 02, 2020, 02:11:25 PM
Cali has about ten million more people than the next closest state. That would have to be a lot of rats.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 02, 2020, 02:19:33 PM
Cali has about ten million more people than the next closest state. That would have to be a lot of rats.
You said it... ;)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2020, 02:21:23 PM
High earned income people care, yes.  Wealthy people without much earned income care a lot less.

Generally, a person worth say $100 million will not have significant earned income.  I should know.
apparently their investment strategy sucks
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 02, 2020, 02:34:55 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/MxVIosc.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 02, 2020, 03:43:25 PM
apparently their investment strategy sucks
Investments do not generate earned income.  This is a key difference between the wealthy and those who work for a living.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on July 02, 2020, 03:52:31 PM
Investments do not generate earned income.  This is a key difference between the wealthy and those who work for a living.
Yeah. It’s kinda f’d up that investment income or capital gains- are taxed at lower rates than the income of those working for a living.

Buffett talks about this all the time when he says it’s not fair his secretary pays a higher tax rate/% than he does. Her income is earned income. His income is primarily capital gains investment income.

If he feels it’s so unfair he should lobby to change tax laws. But he doesn’t. Just a PR stunt.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 02, 2020, 04:06:25 PM
It is the major advantage the wealthy have.  I define wealthy somewhat amusedly as a person who doesn't need income.  They can live off their nut as high as they want for the rest of their lives.  Of course, none of them would do that.

While you suckers are on salary paying state income tax, Federal income tax, FICA, and whatever else (I used to pay 2.2% CITY income tax), I'm over here waltzing along with investment income on which I only pay some Federal income tax and very little state.  (I still have some earned income in Ohio.)

I don't pay a cent to FICA, nor to the state of Georgia, and I pay unearned income rates to the Feds that caps at 20% (I think, last I looked).

You suckers who work for yourselves get clipped pretty hard on the first $137K or so.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 02, 2020, 04:08:37 PM
You suckers who work for yourselves get clipped pretty hard on the first $137K or so.
The day each year I pass the SS cap is like a little holiday for me. :72:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2020, 04:30:12 PM
I must be doing it wrong

I had to pay tax on capital gain on farm land when it sold also on stock dividends
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 02, 2020, 04:32:51 PM
I must be doing it wrong

I had to pay tax on capital gain on farm land when it sold also on stock dividends
Oh, there are taxes, but they are lower than earned income taxes, and in Georgia, I don't pay taxes on unearned income.

Capital gains are taxed at a lower rather than earned income.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 02, 2020, 04:39:06 PM
Capital gains are taxed at a lower rather than earned income.
True, for long-term cap gains (15%). Short term is 35%. 

I'm not sure on dividend income... Does dividend income get taxed as normal income? I think it doesn't if you are doing a DRIP, but I don't know how dividend income gets taxed if realized?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 02, 2020, 04:42:36 PM
22%


The dividend tax rate you will pay on ordinary dividends is 22%. Qualified dividends, on the other hand, are taxed at the capital gains rates, which are lower.


Most stock dividends are qualified dividends.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2020, 04:56:43 PM
Idaho was not built off of transplants.

I am right where Utah, Nevada and Arizona all intersect, 
You don't live in Colorado City, do you??
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 02, 2020, 05:19:25 PM
You don't live in Colorado City, do you??

Now... why would you zero in on that particular town, out of all the ones in that area? What exactly are you trying to imply here? Lol
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 02, 2020, 05:31:04 PM
You said it... ;)
Headed for Austin
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 02, 2020, 05:39:12 PM
You suckers who work for yourselves get clipped pretty hard on the first $137K or so.
I have a long rowe to hoe before I reach that point
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2020, 07:55:57 PM
Now... why would you zero in on that particular town, out of all the ones in that area? What exactly are you trying to imply here? Lol
Just hoping we don't all need to burn our keyboards for interacting with you, lol.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 02, 2020, 07:57:38 PM
Headed for Austin
They're already here.  In droves.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 02, 2020, 08:07:32 PM
Just hoping we don't all need to burn our keyboards for interacting with you, lol.


Oh. Well in that case, yes. I live in Colorado City.

Best burn up your whole desktop, just to be safe. O0
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 02, 2020, 08:09:51 PM
I am glad that you are one of the Californians that is content to stay put.

Unfortunately a lot of others are fleeing like rats from a sinking ship.
Ha! If only that were the case.

I’ve not lived in that state full-time as an adult. And there’s a decent chance I never will.

If the difference was 2.3 percent on taxes, it would be an option. But the fact is, so damn many people still want to live there and the place seems to be producing six-figure jobs at a high clip. If Cali was a ruin, that would benefit me. But going there is economically hard to pull off. It’s so prosperous, expensive and in high demand.

Living in other parts of the country, the lesson has dawned on me, if you live somewhere both nice and cheap, eventually people who can afford nice things find it, and it gets less cheap. One spot I lived was depressed and sinking fast. And I could get a three bedroom house for $70k.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 02, 2020, 08:11:19 PM
Now... why would you zero in on that particular town, out of all the ones in that area? What exactly are you trying to imply here? Lol
I swear, if y’all are neighbors  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 02, 2020, 08:41:09 PM
Ha! If only that were the case.

I’ve not lived in that state full-time as an adult. And there’s a decent chance I never will.

If the difference was 2.3 percent on taxes, it would be an option. But the fact is, so damn many people still want to live there and the place seems to be producing six-figure jobs at a high clip. If Cali was a ruin, that would benefit me. But going there is economically hard to pull off. It’s so prosperous, expensive and in high demand.

Living in other parts of the country, the lesson has dawned on me, if you live somewhere both nice and cheap, eventually people who can afford nice things find it, and it gets less cheap. One spot I lived was depressed and sinking fast. And I could get a three bedroom house for $70k.
Heh, I used to joke that if you find such a place, you should give the town an awful name so that no one would ever want to move there. 

Stenchburg, Locust Point, Manureville, etc.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2020, 08:51:42 PM
Heh, I used to joke that if you find such a place, you should give the town an awful name so that no one would ever want to move there.

Stenchburg, Locust Point, Manureville, etc.
I think Athens is greek for Manureville.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 02, 2020, 08:59:06 PM
Heh, I used to joke that if you find such a place, you should give the town an awful name so that no one would ever want to move there.

Stenchburg, Locust Point, Manureville, etc.
No, once you buy property you rename the town "Pleasantville" to bring people in and raise your own property value... That way you have an exit strategy. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 02, 2020, 09:01:15 PM
No, once you buy property you rename the town "Pleasantville" to bring people in and raise your own property value... That way you have an exit strategy.
Unless you have kids. Then it’s hard for them to live close. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 02, 2020, 09:17:46 PM
I swear, if y’all are neighbors 

Colorado City, AZ btw is probably the most extreme example of a California transplant that completely wrecked an entire community, single handily. And it only took him five years to do it. 

Before he moved there, they were living high on the hog. Their streets were lined with mansions, they all drove high end Trucks and SUVs, they had a bunch of horses and ATVs, and all the luxuries you could ever want in a desert community. 

Fast forward to today, and the streets are still lined with mansions, but most sit vacant with the windows busted out and the doors caved in. All that remains is piles of human wreckage, trying to make the best of their new situation. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2020, 09:40:31 PM
...and Warren Jeffs and the polygamists.  That, too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 02, 2020, 10:32:59 PM
I was referring to Warren Jeffs, who of course was born in California. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on July 02, 2020, 11:20:42 PM
Yeah, there were a lot of other issues going on with Warren Jeffs. Being from California was the least of their worries. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 02, 2020, 11:52:13 PM
True, but it remains the most extreme example of a town in Arizona getting completely wrecked by a California transplant.

On the plus side, they make a pretty mean batch of cheese curds out there. Credit where due.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 03, 2020, 12:47:59 AM
Oh yeah, speaking of Colorado City, there is a town just east of it where all those Bundy ranchers reside. Cane Beds Arizona, iirc. They even have a road named after that guy that got gunned down by the FBI in Oregon.

Lots of interesting towns around here, with a lot of character. And a lot of characters.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 03, 2020, 08:21:07 AM
Colorado City, AZ btw is probably the most extreme example of a California transplant that completely wrecked an entire community, single handily. And it only took him five years to do it.

Before he moved there, they were living high on the hog. Their streets were lined with mansions, they all drove high end Trucks and SUVs, they had a bunch of horses and ATVs, and all the luxuries you could ever want in a desert community.

Fast forward to today, and the streets are still lined with mansions, but most sit vacant with the windows busted out and the doors caved in. All that remains is piles of human wreckage, trying to make the best of their new situation.


I think that's probably the propaganda the city puts out to attract new people.  Colorado City was founded as a polygamist town, and Warren Jeffs was far from a "California transplant" - his father was polygamist Rulon Jeffs who died with like 80 wives in Utah. There is some thought that Jeffs was only born in California because his mother was in hiding after the government raided the community for polygamists in 1953.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 03, 2020, 09:10:50 AM
No, that was a Brutus original. 

I branded it as the "most extreme" example for a reason. And that reason was not to give the implication that it was commonplace. Or that it would ever be duplicated.

The man was born in Sacramento, irrespective of the reason, and he brought that community to it's knees. All in under five years.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2020, 09:16:05 AM
That city appears to be growing in population.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 03, 2020, 09:52:09 AM
It is an insular community. Their numbers have always been difficult to count or calculate. 

The dwellings were mostly occupied around the turn of the millennium, and are mostly vacant today. 

The mass exodus from that town during that time period has been well documented. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 03, 2020, 10:05:22 AM
After a century, polygamists choose to leave Short Creek homes rather than deal with land trust

https://www.sltrib.com/news/polygamy/2017/05/19/after-a-century-polygamists-choose-to-leave-short-creek-homes-rather-than-deal-with-land-trust/ (https://www.sltrib.com/news/polygamy/2017/05/19/after-a-century-polygamists-choose-to-leave-short-creek-homes-rather-than-deal-with-land-trust/)

Why polygamists are leaving their historic hometowns along the Utah-Arizona border

https://www.sltrib.com/news/polygamy/2017/05/25/why-polygamists-are-leaving-their-historic-hometowns-along-the-utah-arizona-border/ (https://www.sltrib.com/news/polygamy/2017/05/25/why-polygamists-are-leaving-their-historic-hometowns-along-the-utah-arizona-border/)

Evictions in polygamous town include traveling band of onlookers

Women, children follow the “eviction team” of the land trust that owns the homes, taking photos and videos of families getting kicked out.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/polygamy/2017/06/04/evictions-in-polygamous-town-include-traveling-band-of-onlookers/ (https://www.sltrib.com/news/polygamy/2017/06/04/evictions-in-polygamous-town-include-traveling-band-of-onlookers/)

Woman tries to run down constable during evictions at polygamous Short Creek

https://www.sltrib.com/news/polygamy/2015/07/11/woman-tries-to-run-down-constable-during-evictions-at-polygamous-short-creek/ (https://www.sltrib.com/news/polygamy/2015/07/11/woman-tries-to-run-down-constable-during-evictions-at-polygamous-short-creek/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 03, 2020, 10:31:34 AM
there are some things that I learn here that I'm not sure are important
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 03, 2020, 10:48:47 AM
there are some things that I learn here that I'm not sure are important

Have you ever learned anything here that was important? O0

Anyway, sorry I brought it up. Well, Fro brought it up, but I took the bait, and that's on me.

It is all pretty complicated. Not really the easiest thing to breakdown in thread form.

There are entire books written about the demise of that community. Dozens of them. From every perspective imaginable. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 03, 2020, 10:50:31 AM
not too many crazy folks from Cali move to NW Iowa small towns

So I've got that going for me, which is nice
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on July 03, 2020, 05:32:45 PM
Ouch
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on July 03, 2020, 05:36:35 PM
This high school nailed making a badass Hippo uniform

https://twitter.com/hubenak_j/status/1279124819318104064?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2020, 05:38:10 PM
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/people-across-metro-area-shocked-over-news-cnn-center-sale/ROBWEOQUEVDV7KI43PMBEM4RZI/ (https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/people-across-metro-area-shocked-over-news-cnn-center-sale/ROBWEOQUEVDV7KI43PMBEM4RZI/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 03, 2020, 07:28:48 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Sg9vbFZ.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 03, 2020, 11:49:47 PM
Spending the weekend with my wife’s family in Tennessee.  My 12 yo nephew hit two homers and threw a no hitter in his last travel ball game. He asked me to catch him a little this evening.

I’m used to catching my daughter who plays softball.  When you are used to that the baseball looks like a golf ball.  I was having trouble picking up the ball out of his hand. It didn’t help that he’s now throwing his fastball about 75mph.  He bounced a curve ball into the top of my foot which bruised and  swelled up pretty quickly. I told his dad afterwards I probably should at least put on a mask to catch him now but I don’t want to give him the satisfaction.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 04, 2020, 07:42:59 AM
That reminds me of my youth when my uncle in Tenn. heard I pitched and wanted to catch me.  I was 12, I think, and could wing it pretty good, and he was 50ish.  He kind of had the same sort of experience.  I could throw a massive lazy breaking curve ball that batters back then would bail on every time.  My dad wouldn't catch me when I hit 12.

I didn't have great accuracy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on July 04, 2020, 09:41:15 AM
Ouch
🤣
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 04, 2020, 09:49:22 AM
In other good news, we got word that Fantasy Camp is on for January.  "GMac", who runs the operation, sent the previous attendees an email yesterday for signups, he would have sent that out in April.  He said he had over 80 people asking to sign up but is giving us first shot as promised.  It made me happy.

I had been running etc. to stay in half decent shape anyway, now I can believe we will proceed.  I can't throw very hard at all now, but I can still hit pretty well at this level of pitching.  On our team last year, I was one of few who could still run on the last day, all the young guys nearly had muscle pulls to one degree or another.

The wife enjoys this as well.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 04, 2020, 09:54:30 AM
The Peachtree Road Race has been delayed to November for obvious reasons.  It's a 10K, I might give it a shot, from the back.  I understand over 50,000 participate, so maybe a lot of folks walk the entire length.

I imagine my legs would be jelly right now after 10 K.  My routine is around 5 K, and I'm off that because of a slight hamstring issue.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 04, 2020, 10:59:39 AM
Gonna throw three slabs of baby backs on the smoker today. Just us and the kids, so we'll have leftover ribs for lunch on Monday :72:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 04, 2020, 11:03:50 AM
The wife said her cholesterol blood count was high, so she's wanting to avoid it in her diet (I explained how this often doesn't help).  Anyway, that basically means I am on a Low C diet as well.  I have a hankering for a big A Porterhouse from our local butcher shop and a nice  bottle of vino.  She also says she's not drinking any more except for special occasions (this usually last a few days and then every day is viewed as being special.  I am trying to help, Thursday night I had zero alcohol, but last night I had some wine.

Maybe I'll get some thick pork chops, I like that about as well as steak.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on July 04, 2020, 11:21:25 AM
Gundy takes a $1,000,000 pay cut. All for wearing a t-shirt on a fishing trip. Lol. 

I’m not feeling sorry for the guy, don’t get me wrong he’s still making plenty of money and college coaches are way overpaid anyway in my book. But that’s neither here nor there. The world we are living in right now is truly insane. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 04, 2020, 11:50:23 AM
I would not be shocked if the AD and Gundy concocted this pay cut to serve as his contrition etc., knowing that in a couple years when all this abates, he will be made whole....

There often are what some call "back room deals" that take place to generate a desired public perception.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 04, 2020, 08:48:21 PM
might not take a couple years
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 04, 2020, 09:15:19 PM
Mmmm.... Ribs. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 04, 2020, 09:45:19 PM
Gundy takes a $1,000,000 pay cut. All for wearing a t-shirt on a fishing trip. Lol.

I’m not feeling sorry for the guy, don’t get me wrong he’s still making plenty of money and college coaches are way overpaid anyway in my book. But that’s neither here nor there. The world we are living in right now is truly insane.
Treat folks bad, sometimes if comes home to roost.

(I'd also bet this has 85 percent to do with that athletic department trying to make budget and like 3 percent with the shirt)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 04, 2020, 11:03:51 PM
For those of you who need a laugh, especially at the expense of our elections and politicians I recommend the movie irresistible with Steve Carell. I just watched it and it was very well done I laughed most of the way through it.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2020, 07:45:40 AM
Does Facebook bring out the "bad" in people or just reveal them?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 05, 2020, 07:54:11 AM
both
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2020, 07:56:22 AM
Yeah, I find it "interesting".  I see stuff posted by people I don't know or barely know, it's a partial insight into "what people are thinking", I think.  The "thoughts" in general run to two extremes, not much "in the middle" because folks in the middle just post photos of whatever.

And I'm fairly sure the folks in the middle actually are much more numerous, just quieter, kind of a silentish majority or something.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 05, 2020, 08:01:39 AM
Does Facebook bring out the "bad" in people or just reveal them?

Never been on it something about my picture/profile violates company policy
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2020, 08:06:05 AM
I guess bring out the bad and revealing them is almost the same thing.

I used to see some pretty vitriolic arguments that resulted in defriending, perhaps in real life.  Those folks probably would have remained general friends in real life otherwise.

One of my Marine friends is anti-Trump fairly liberal and most of the rest are pro-Trump pretty hard right, it's interesting to see them tangle at times.  They don't defriend each other, they go have a beer.  I sense they are used to giving and taking S all the time.

One of them has a full grown pet turkey named Major Tom who is epic, truly epic.  This sucker is huge.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 05, 2020, 08:06:54 AM
yes, it's a good place for the crazy and screamers to express their views and change the world
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 05, 2020, 08:08:22 AM
my daughters have be de-friending folks and "blocking" people on FB for years, usually not de-friending in real life, but it could hapen
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 05, 2020, 08:08:48 AM
I gotta go play some golf in the heat and humidity

FORE!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2020, 08:19:57 AM
yes, it's a good place for the crazy and screamers to express their views and change the world

This is mostly what I see, the virtue signaling by folks who in real life do nothing to advance their "Cause" beyond "not using plastic to the extent possible" or joining an occasional march for something.  A couple friends did the "March for Science" thing a few years back.  I thought the concept was extremely goofy.

They were very pleased with themselves, which I suppose is a plus.  

Blow off steam, signal to everyone how virtuous you are, prove you aren't a racist, and then post photos of some very fancy meal you are enjoying that cost a ton of money with that bottle of wine ....

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 05, 2020, 01:57:04 PM
Howdy all. Back from an unplugged 4 days. Felt great.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on July 05, 2020, 02:18:58 PM
For those of you who need a laugh, especially at the expense of our elections and politicians I recommend the movie irresistible with Steve Carell. I just watched it and it was very well done I laughed most of the way through it. 
Thanks, I’ll check it out. I’ve loved Steve Carrell since The Office and 40 YO Virgin. 

Don’t watch his new Netflix show, Space Force, it’s absolutely terrible. I was so disappointed. Netflix just pumps out garbage tv shows and movies. I think they’ll basically green light anything, make as much crap as they can hoping 1 thing hits. I can count on one hand how many Netflix made tv shows/movies that I think were actually any good.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2020, 02:21:06 PM
Amazon Prime has some pretty good items, I think, I mentioned "Silk Road" before, and last night we watched "Ottomans versus Christians", with our neighbor the Ottoman, named Ahmet.  He was cheering for a while, and then the Christians made a comeback, but it ended in a tie of sorts.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 05, 2020, 02:27:45 PM
Thanks, I’ll check it out. I’ve loved Steve Carrell since The Office and 40 YO Virgin.

Don’t watch his new Netflix show, Space Force, it’s absolutely terrible. I was so disappointed. Netflix just pumps out garbage tv shows and movies. I think they’ll basically green light anything, make as much crap as they can hoping 1 thing hits. I can count on one hand how many Netflix made tv shows/movies that I think were actually any good.
Aww I kinda liked Space Force
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 05, 2020, 02:31:49 PM
Space Force is good as long as you consider it a sequel to "Threat Level Midnight"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: WhiskeyM on July 05, 2020, 02:42:44 PM
Gonna throw three slabs of baby backs on the smoker today. Just us and the kids, so we'll have leftover ribs for lunch on Monday :72:

What method do you use to reheat the leftovers?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: WhiskeyM on July 05, 2020, 02:43:39 PM
Don’t watch his new Netflix show, Space Force, it’s absolutely terrible. I was so disappointed. Netflix just pumps out garbage tv shows and movies. I think they’ll basically green light anything, make as much crap as they can hoping 1 thing hits. I can count on one hand how many Netflix made tv shows/movies that I think were actually any good.


Waco (miniseries) on Netflix was excellent.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 05, 2020, 03:01:19 PM
What method do you use to reheat the leftovers?
Usually just the microwave. Got better ideas? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 05, 2020, 04:06:47 PM
@847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) Happ's team from TBT on ESPN now. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 05, 2020, 05:11:09 PM
@847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) Happ's team from TBT on ESPN now.
Hey there's Diamond Stone
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 05, 2020, 06:28:30 PM
Hey there's Diamond Stone
Is he stoned?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 05, 2020, 06:31:34 PM
I'm outraged. And it's not GUN VIOLENCE. Guns don't pull their own triggers. 



At least 17 people died and 63 others were injured in Chicago due to gun violence over the Fourth of July weekend so far. Two killed overnight were young, continuing a string of children fatally shot in recent weeks.

The youngest person killed over the weekend was 7-year-old Natalia Wallace, of Chatham (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-chicago-shootings-violence-girl-shot-20200705-gzkzrbdyfbhw5j5nu4jbpoedey-story.html). She was shot in the head around 7 p.m. Saturday in the South Austin neighborhood while outside at a family gathering.

A 14-year-old boy was also shot and killed later in the night in Englewood along with three others who have not yet been identified after four men started shooting at a large gathering, according to Chicago police. Four others were injured in the mass shooting, including an 11-year-old boy and a 15-year-old boy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 05, 2020, 06:54:05 PM
I'm outraged. And it's not GUN VIOLENCE. Guns don't pull their own triggers.
As well we all should be,where are the rioters protesters?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 05, 2020, 07:54:12 PM
Usually just the microwave. Got better ideas?
Air Fryer. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2020, 08:00:19 PM
The truth, or reality, usually is somewhere near the middle.  One side claims this, the other side that.

Each side tries to shape opinion of course while most of us are just trying to understand reality.

The COVID thing to me seems to be out of control now, but it's important to realize that thousands infected in a population of tens of millions is still a small percentage base.  And then of course we have to figure many undiagnosed are also infectious.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 05, 2020, 08:34:40 PM
the press sucks
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: WhiskeyM on July 05, 2020, 08:38:07 PM
Usually just the microwave. Got better ideas?

Not really.  I do the microwave with them too, but there's just something off about them that way.

The oven takes longer, but throwing them in at 275 until they warm up is seems to taste a bit closer to the original.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on July 05, 2020, 10:34:14 PM
Space Force is good as long as you consider it a sequel to "Threat Level Midnight"
Lmao. Now I would love it if they actually made that a tv series and got Carrell to play Michael Scarn. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 05, 2020, 10:34:45 PM
As well we all should be,where are the rioters protesters?
What would they be protesting?

Protests are usually to get the attention of the government, which answers to the people. Maybe sometimes they're aimed at companies, which bow to bad press.

But neither gangs at large nor people who commit wonten acts of violence answer to people, nor does bad press particularly slow them. Police in that fair city were given gobs and gobs of money, plus they seemed to violate rights with impunity at points, and it hasn't done a whole lot to keep folks from catching bullets. 

Badge already made clear his feelings that the level of firepower is not the issue. I suppose protesters could march and say they won't stand for it. But it would ring utterly hollow since said offenders don't answer to any sort of public in the first point. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 05, 2020, 10:35:22 PM
the press sucks
Force a lot of turnovers with the press, but yeah, the fouling on the back end and easy layups are often too much. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 05, 2020, 11:10:53 PM
The COVID thing to me seems to be out of control now, but it's important to realize that thousands infected in a population of tens of millions is still a small percentage base.  And then of course we have to figure many undiagnosed are also infectious.


The COVID thing to me seems to be out of control now, but it's important to realize that hundreds of thousands infected in a population of tens of millions is still a small  growing percentage base.  And then of course we have to figure many undiagnosed are also infectious.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 05, 2020, 11:13:16 PM
As well we all should be,where are the rioters protesters?
Do you two not realize that if BLM got the things they wanted, there'd be far fewer gang members committing far less gang violence?  Do you really not know that?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2020, 11:13:42 PM
Thousands in a state that has tens of millions of people, state, not national.

I figured about 1 in 1000 around us is infected right now.  That is my point, I thought it was clear.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2020, 11:14:07 PM
Do you two not realize that if BLM got the things they wanted, there'd be far fewer gang members committing far less gang violence?  Do you really not know that?
What things do they want?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 05, 2020, 11:29:03 PM
Do you two not realize that if BLM got the things they wanted, there'd be far fewer gang members committing far less gang violence?  Do you really not know that?
https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

That is one OPINION.    It’s hard for someone to “ know “ that when it is wild speculation at best.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 05, 2020, 11:33:13 PM
Force a lot of turnovers with the press, but yeah, the fouling on the back end and easy layups are often too much.
Nah.  They are not accountable to facts.  At all. The very thing they are supposed to hold society to, which is a clear and reflective mirror, is now an orchestrated and distorted picture that suits whatever they desire society to see. 

that’s why a majority of citizens do not trust them, and many no longer trust them at all.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 05, 2020, 11:35:56 PM
What things do they want?

Is this a serious question?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 05, 2020, 11:37:59 PM
Nah.  They are not accountable to facts.  At all. The very thing they are supposed to hold society to, which is a clear and reflective mirror, is now an orchestrated and distorted picture that suits whatever they desire society to see.

that’s why a majority of citizens do not trust them, and many no longer trust them at all.
I think you have it backwards.
The press used to hold themselves accountable, because it used to matter.  Once they discovered that eyeballs aren't reliant on accuracy, their incentive was gone to do so. 

We, the people, are to blame for the media's misgivings.  The image in the mirror isn't distorted, it's accurate. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 05, 2020, 11:52:38 PM
I think you have it backwards.
The press used to hold themselves accountable, because it used to matter.  Once they discovered that eyeballs aren't reliant on accuracy, their incentive was gone to do so. 

We, the people, are to blame for the media's misgivings.  The image in the mirror isn't distorted, it's accurate.  
I am with you, until the very last sentence, with which I could not disagree more firmly.  The image in the mirror is completely different depending on who is holding it up, therefore at any given times there are multiple mirrors to choose from. By definition, that can’t be accurate.  

Your sentence about eyeballs and accuracy is very insightful and well said, and sadly, true.

the movie I mentioned upthread, Irresistible, actually takes this concept, and builds a hilarious story around it.  Check it out. It is an equal opportunity offender- it doesn’t care what party you are.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 05, 2020, 11:59:52 PM

the movie I mentioned upthread, Irresistible, actually takes this concept, and builds a hilarious story around it.  Check it out. It is an equal opportunity offender- it doesn’t care what party you are. 
will do
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2020, 08:19:39 AM
Is this a serious question?
Is that a serious answer?

I hear a lot of jargon, not much by way of serious practicable proposals.  

It seems to be "police stop killing unarmed black people", which of course is a rare event as compared with other sources of death.

If police somehow did that, gangs would still persist.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 06, 2020, 08:36:54 AM
Atlanta mayor calls for citizens to stop 'shooting each other' after murder of 8-year-old near BLM protest site

Victim's father: 'They say Black Lives Matter. You killed your own'




https://www.foxnews.com/politics/atlanta-mayor-calls-for-citizens-to-stop-shooting-each-other-after-murder-of-8-year-old-near-blm-protest-site (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/atlanta-mayor-calls-for-citizens-to-stop-shooting-each-other-after-murder-of-8-year-old-near-blm-protest-site)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2020, 08:41:42 AM
The details on that shooting are almost nonexistent.  One or two people apparently opened fire on the car, no reason given, occupants were black.  They drove into the wrong neighborhood, no reasons given, wrong these days anyway, it used to be an OK place if you needed gas or a burger.

The APD has been emasculated from taking any kind of aggressive action against people setting up "armed camps", maybe that will change now.  The mayor, who gives a nice speech, is making some serious mistakes in my view.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 06, 2020, 08:56:29 AM
The details on that shooting are almost nonexistent.  One or two people apparently opened fire on the car, no reason given, occupants were black.  They drove into the wrong neighborhood, no reasons given, wrong these days anyway, it used to be an OK place if you needed gas or a burger.

The APD has been emasculated from taking any kind of aggressive action against people setting up "armed camps", maybe that will change now.  The mayor, who gives a nice speech, is making some serious mistakes in my view.


They all are. Speech after speech, saying the same BS they were saying 60 years ago. How long is enough time of failed policies, for people to demand real changes in leadership?

Another 60 years? 80 years?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2020, 09:00:28 AM
People can "demand" real changes in leadership all they want, but they don't vote for it, ever.  They think they do at times, but the country is not designed for "real changes" quickly.  It doesn't happen.  The people don't really want it, generally speaking.

The vast majority of us are fairly "comfortable" in our lives.  We react to news about what happens to others.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 06, 2020, 09:06:09 AM
People can "demand" real changes in leadership all they want, but they don't vote for it, ever.  They think they do at times, but the country is not designed for "real changes" quickly.  It doesn't happen.  The people don't really want it, generally speaking.

The vast majority of us are fairly "comfortable" in our lives.  We react to news about what happens to others.
Ding ding ding.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 06, 2020, 09:06:19 AM
Dealing with widespread segregation and poverty quickly gets you into talk about reparations, which is fairly unpopular among the whites.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2020, 09:07:56 AM
Reparations would be very difficult to manage, I think, in terms of who qualifies.

Universal income is at least more practicable, I think.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 06, 2020, 09:15:25 AM
Dealing with widespread segregation and poverty quickly gets you into talk about reparations, which is fairly unpopular among the whites.
Which was promoted by who?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 06, 2020, 09:23:09 AM
Which was promoted by who?
The whites
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 06, 2020, 09:28:49 AM
No kidding?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 06, 2020, 09:41:28 AM
Nah.  They are not accountable to facts.  At all. The very thing they are supposed to hold society to, which is a clear and reflective mirror, is now an orchestrated and distorted picture that suits whatever they desire society to see.

that’s why a majority of citizens do not trust them, and many no longer trust them at all.
HB, it was a joke about basketball. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2020, 09:41:51 AM
I'm still curious about what "BLM" wants, aside from the chants and mantras.  Defund the police?  I don't even know what that means in practical terms.

Reduce their budget to spend the funds on something else?  

The police force here is 60% black which is about the constitution of the city.  Does that need to change?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 06, 2020, 10:06:54 AM
I'm still curious about what "BLM" wants, aside from the chants and mantras.  Defund the police?  I don't even know what that means in practical terms.

Reduce their budget to spend the funds on something else? 

The police force here is 60% black which is about the constitution of the city.  Does that need to change?
I'd also like to know what they want, because if they don't get it, they're burning this f'er down.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 06, 2020, 10:35:29 AM
No kidding?
No kidding. The Case for Reparations looked explicitly at Chicago and the history of segregation there. But it was a very similar story all across America. It was quite the struggle for black people to simply move to communities and build wealth. If you look at the racial makeup of suburbs and urban areas across America, you can see the root of the issue.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2020, 11:04:45 AM
Finish HS, get a job, show up on time, be honest, work reasonably hard ...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 06, 2020, 11:06:35 AM
No kidding. The Case for Reparations looked explicitly at Chicago and the history of segregation there. But it was a very similar story all across America. It was quite the struggle for black people to simply move to communities and build wealth. If you look at the racial makeup of suburbs and urban areas across America, you can see the root of the issue.
Who was in charge when this cluster was built? I see that the president was JFK. The Governor of Illinois was Otto Kerner. The Mayor of Chicago was Boss Daley.



Robert Taylor Homes was a public housing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing) project (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing_in_the_United_States) in Bronzeville (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas,_Chicago#Bronzeville) on the South Side (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_side_(Chicago)) of Chicago, Illinois (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago,_Illinois), bordered along State Street (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Street_(Chicago)) between Pershing Road (39th Street) and 54th Street alongside the Dan Ryan Expressway (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Ryan_Expressway). The project was named for Robert Rochon Taylor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Rochon_Taylor), an African-American (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American) activist and the first African American chairman of the Chicago Housing Authority (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Housing_Authority) (CHA). It was a part of the State Street Corridor which included other CHA housing projects: Stateway Gardens (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stateway_Gardens), Harold Ickes Homes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Ickes_Homes), Dearborn Homes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dearborn_Homes) and Hillard Homes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilliard_Towers_Apartments).

History
Robert Taylor Homes were completed in 1962 and named for Robert Rochon Taylor (1899–1957), an African American activist and Chicago Housing Authority (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Housing_Authority) (CHA) board member who in 1950 resigned when the city council refused to endorse potential building locations throughout the city of Chicago that would induce racially integrated housing. At one time, it was the largest public housing development in the country, and it was intended to offer decent affordable housing. It was composed of 28 high-rise buildings with 16 stories each, with a total of 4,415 units, mostly arranged in U-shaped clusters of three, stretching for two miles (three kilometers).

Problems
Robert Taylor Homes faced many of the same problems that doomed other high-rise housing projects in Chicago such as Cabrini–Green (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabrini–Green). These problems include narcotics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcotics), violence (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence), and the perpetuation of poverty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty). Planned for 11,000 inhabitants, the Robert Taylor Homes housed up to a peak of 27,000 people. Six of the poorest US census (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_census) areas with populations above 2,500 were found there. Including children who are not of working age, at one point 95 percent of the housing development's 27,000 residents were unemployed and listed public assistance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_assistance) as their only income source, and 40 percent of the households were single-parent, female-headed households earning less than $5,000 per year. About 96 percent were African-American (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American). The drab, concrete (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concrete) high-rises, many blackened with the scars of arson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arson) fire, sat in a narrow stretch of slum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slum). The city's neglect was evident in littered streets, poorly enforced building codes and scant commercial or civic amenities (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amenities). Aside from neglect and ignoring crime, police officers also felt unsafe in darkened hallways and were frequently shot at from the high rises. In the Robert Taylor Homes a survey was conducted and showed that the majority of residents either had a family member in prison or expected one to return from prison within two years. This caused issues when residents tried to relocate; many of these returning prisoners had partners, children and/or mental illnesses that prevented them from relocating to another residence.
 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 06, 2020, 11:30:21 AM
Finish HS, get a job, show up on time, be honest, work reasonably hard ...
buy a house...watch it's value plummet as people move away from you... start at beginning again
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2020, 11:43:26 AM
I sold my house to a black family.  The neighbors across the street were black.  We later sold the wife's house two doors over, no problems.

I think your story is mired in the '70s.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 06, 2020, 11:44:39 AM
Yeah, I'm not buying it. I've had black neighbors in every place I've lived, except for the condo I'm in now (that I know of).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2020, 11:49:51 AM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/06/us/racism-words-phrases-slavery-trnd/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/06/us/racism-words-phrases-slavery-trnd/index.html)

I laughed.  So, nobody thinks of these terms as being racial, but we're not supposed to use them?  We're suppose to change our vocabulary for what reason?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 06, 2020, 11:51:06 AM
I sold my house to a black family.  The neighbors across the street were black.  We later sold the wife's house two doors over, no problems.

I think your story is mired in the '70s.


I wish it were.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 06, 2020, 11:51:54 AM
Yeah, I'm not buying it. I've had black neighbors in every place I've lived, except for the condo I'm in now (that I know of).
How many black neighbors?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 06, 2020, 11:53:19 AM
Random Orlando Pace highlight

https://twitter.com/Dubsco/status/1280155096198742018?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 06, 2020, 11:55:42 AM
Finish HS, get a job, show up on time, be honest, work reasonably hard ...
HS diplomas lead to jobs that get you to the level of home ownership in the Chicago or Atlanta suburbs? Seems a tad unrealistic. 

Plus you have all sorts of issues with socialization and such. The expectation is to throw off much of one's upbringing, how people around you dress and speak, even before considering how people act. Were it only that easy. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 06, 2020, 11:58:11 AM
the question is, can we make it easier?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 06, 2020, 12:03:21 PM
I'll start from the time I moved out of my parents' house. There were a lot in that neighborhood.

Rolling Meadows condo: 20+
Schaumburg townhome: 20+
Madison apartment: I don't think any, but I wasn't there much.
Palatine Condo: 10+
Vernon Hills townhome: 50+
Gurnee SF home: 1
Palatine townhome: 4

Punta Gorda: Unknown yet.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2020, 12:04:24 PM
HS diplomas lead to jobs that get you to the level of home ownership in the Chicago or Atlanta suburbs? Seems a tad unrealistic.

Plus you have all sorts of issues with socialization and such. The expectation is to throw off much of one's upbringing, how people around you dress and speak, even before considering how people act. Were it only that easy.
I didn't say anything about home ownership.  I am suggesting a course of action that can better an individual's condition.  And yes, obviously there are barriers.

That is why it doesn't happen often enough.  

There are individuals who do this, and they deserve credit IMHO for overcoming those barriers.  I sponsored a substantial scholarship at our Cincy HS and about a third or more of the winners were from difficult backgrounds.  All but one graduated college (except the recent awardees of course).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 06, 2020, 12:09:29 PM
I'll start from the time I moved out of my parents' house. There were a lot in that neighborhood.

Rolling Meadows condo: 20+
Schaumburg townhome: 20+
Madison apartment: I don't think any, but I wasn't there much.
Palatine Condo: 10+
Vernon Hills townhome: 50+
Gurnee SF home: 1
Palatine townhome: 4

Punta Gorda: Unknown yet.
I'm super familiar with the area but wikipedia tells me Palantine as of 2010 was 76.9 percent white and 2.7 percent black. Vernon Hills 82 percent white and 1.7 percent black. Punta Gorda 94.6 percent white and 3.17 percent black.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 06, 2020, 12:11:52 PM
Until Gurnee, which you didn't mention, I did not live in the nicer parts of town.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 06, 2020, 03:42:21 PM
I'm still curious about what "BLM" wants, aside from the chants and mantras.  Defund the police?  I don't even know what that means in practical terms.

Reduce their budget to spend the funds on something else? 

The police force here is 60% black which is about the constitution of the city.  Does that need to change?
Go read their website and manifesto.  Among things you will find is the destruction of the nuclear ( traditional) family, and an economic system of shared ownership ( called Marxism historically). 
I firmly believe the overwhelming majority of citizens in this country/ including African Americans- would oppose many of their foundational beliefs.  But that’s not how it is sold to the public by the media. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2020, 04:35:00 PM
There is the official BLM, and then there is the "BLM" in quotes which folks chant when the protest.  I think the two are different.

It's a catchy phrase adopted by a lot of folks who don't pay attention to official BLM.

At any rate, I still don't know what they want.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 06, 2020, 04:40:37 PM
They want it all
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 06, 2020, 04:50:02 PM
https://www.blm.gov/ (https://www.blm.gov/)

BLM official website.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 06, 2020, 04:52:36 PM
https://www.blm.gov/ (https://www.blm.gov/)

BLM official website.
😂😂.   Smartass
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on July 06, 2020, 04:57:57 PM
Chiefs sign Mahomes to $400 million deal. Holy smokes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2020, 05:00:07 PM
https://whatnowatlanta.com/southern-korean-fried-chicken-comes-to-midtown/?fbclid=IwAR21jq3FUd_I_EZTtX_LHrfJb6UG11bfDeeyEij5xB51mLtTsBHqjYdsz58 (https://whatnowatlanta.com/southern-korean-fried-chicken-comes-to-midtown/?fbclid=IwAR21jq3FUd_I_EZTtX_LHrfJb6UG11bfDeeyEij5xB51mLtTsBHqjYdsz58)

A positive story about two Korean Americans and a restaurant they hope to open here soon.  I'm always impressed with people who follow their dreams against difficulties and persevere.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 06, 2020, 05:00:11 PM
https://www.acton.org/publications/transatlantic/2020/06/18/explainer-what-does-black-lives-matter-believe


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 06, 2020, 05:02:01 PM
There is the official BLM, and then there is the "BLM" in quotes which folks chant when the protest.  I think the two are different.

It's a catchy phrase adopted by a lot of folks who don't pay attention to official BLM.

At any rate, I still don't know what they want.
I'm just spitballing here but I think they want cops to quit killing black people
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 06, 2020, 05:05:56 PM
I'm just spitballing here but I think they want cops to quit killing black people
That’s what many think and what the media sells.  And of course it is true.  But see my link above for what they truly want and believe, unabashedly.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2020, 05:06:46 PM
I want cops to quite killing anybody who is not a mortal threat.

I also want world peace and an end to hunger and climate change.

I want a lot of things.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2020, 05:07:42 PM
If you really want change, seriously, you need to propose specific actions that are practicable, not just say "I want an end to war for all time."

Groovy man, but you offer no enablement.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 06, 2020, 05:10:16 PM
I want cops to quite killing anybody who is not a mortal threat.

I also want world peace and an end to hunger and climate change.

I want a lot of things.
Did you read my link?   You keep asking what they want and I just showed you in bold letters.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 06, 2020, 05:12:38 PM
:banghead:

They want to not grow up in the "bad" part of town.
They want to not be followed in stores by staff.
They want their resume to stand on its own and not be negatively influenced by the name at the top.
They want a speeding ticket to be an annoyance, not a life-or-death situation.
They don't want to be a box to check off as a friend or lover.
They don't want to be 'they'.

Why is equality for others such a blind spot for some of you?!?  It's disgusting.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2020, 05:15:40 PM
I want all those things too.  I don't think if magically they existed it would end gangs of course.

Or solve any real problems in life.

I also think the statistics of "cops killing unarmed blacks" is something some don't want to face and accept.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 06, 2020, 05:19:59 PM
Then no one can help you understand.  We should all move on, because dinosaurs don't evolve into people.


Cincy, how can you be so impressive on the Area 51 section and so lost here?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 06, 2020, 05:27:13 PM
If you really want change, seriously, you need to propose specific actions that are practicable, not just say "I want an end to war for all time."

Groovy man, but you offer no enablement.
There can be no doubt they have had an effect. One example, police body cameras have become standard in many areas, and this was a pretty direct response to the Ferguson protests.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 06, 2020, 05:31:30 PM
:banghead:

They want to not grow up in the "bad" part of town.
They want to not be followed in stores by staff.
They want their resume to stand on its own and not be negatively influenced by the name at the top.
They want a speeding ticket to be an annoyance, not a life-or-death situation.
They don't want to be a box to check off as a friend or lover.
They don't want to be 'they'.

Why is equality for others such a blind spot for some of you?!?  It's disgusting.
They also want reparations, free health care, preferential treatment on food, end capitalism and end Israel’s among many other things. They view the USA as an imperialist regime that is evil by definition. 

while they do want equality they are using the fact that most of the country agrees with them on that issue to gain momentum and financial prowess.  Their founders openly and proudly state these things.  Do you need me to provide these facts or can you do a few minutes of easy research?

They want a complete transformation of everything, from taxes to ending bail, eliminating prisons, and not only releasing convicted drug offenders but paying them damages.  They want drugs and sex- for- sale legalized.  

None of this is new, or debatable.   The energy behind it from the murder of George Lloyd has given this political organization- and that is exactly what they are-a huge opportunity to gain members and financial and cultural support.  They do not deny this.   
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 06, 2020, 05:34:51 PM
We need to establish trust, and that is a two-way street.

There is very little racial tension between white people and Hispanics, in my vast experience. Everywhere I've lived, including now, has a large number of them, with little to no issues.

There is definitely racial tension between whites and blacks, and there is definitely racial tension between Hispanics and blacks. 

Asians are very wary of black people, as they have been targets for crime for many years.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 06, 2020, 05:40:25 PM
https://www.acton.org/publications/transatlantic/2020/06/18/explainer-what-does-black-lives-matter-believe


Posting it again since nobody seems to be reading it.  

That this is what they want- is not in dispute.  What is being sold to us in the media is that all they want is and end to be treated unfairly- but nobody is talking about their proposed solutions. 

It’s easy for these young white kids to sign in to ending the kind of shit we saw with George Lloyd, but I would wager most of those don’t know the foundational beliefs/ goals of the organization they are supporting. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 06, 2020, 05:47:33 PM
https://www.acton.org/publications/transatlantic/2020/06/18/explainer-what-does-black-lives-matter-believe



Going to the Acton Institute to learn about BLM's aims would be like asking me to write a character reference letter for my ex-wife. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 06, 2020, 05:52:37 PM
Going to the Acton Institute to learn about BLM's aims would be like asking me to write a character reference letter for my ex-wife.


Where would you like me to get the quotes from.  They are quotes and can easily be found in other places. 

seriously- just do a little research.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 06, 2020, 05:57:22 PM
https://www.acton.org/publications/transatlantic/2020/06/18/explainer-what-does-black-lives-matter-believe


Posting it again since nobody seems to be reading it. 

That this is what they want- is not in dispute.  What is being sold to us in the media is that all they want is and end to be treated unfairly- but nobody is talking about their proposed solutions.

It’s easy for these young white kids to sign in to ending the kind of shit we saw with George Lloyd, but I would wager most of those don’t know the foundational beliefs/ goals of the organization they are supporting.
If I shouldn't listen to the media, why should I listen to a political think tank? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 06, 2020, 06:02:44 PM
If I shouldn't listen to the media, why should I listen to a political think tank?

Will you listen to published demands and goals and agendas? Direct quotes?   

I will go do your homework for you and post them if your answer is yes.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 06, 2020, 06:12:57 PM
Where would you like me to get the quotes from.  They are quotes and can easily be found in other places.

seriously- just do a little research. 
How much do you want to bet that if I took everything you've posted on CFB51 over the years that I could craft an absolutely devastating hit piece on you?

I mean, probably half of it would be taken out of context, and the other half blown out of proportion, but they'd all be real quotes...

Sh!t, it wouldn't even be hard if I really tried.

Heck, I try to be a pretty careful and even-handed writer. Yet I'll bet if someone tried to do it to me based just on what I've written at The Liberty Papers, they'd be able to make me out to be the love child of Hitler and Vlad the Impaler.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 06, 2020, 06:20:50 PM
As long as many of us are source-blind and context-retarded, there's no use on even have the conversation.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 06, 2020, 06:26:03 PM
Will you listen to published demands and goals and agendas? Direct quotes? 

I will go do your homework for you and post them if your answer is yes. 
I mean, you brought me something meant to fearmonger and make a political point. Should I trust you'll not bring me more of that?

Here's the thing, I'm not going to pretend BLM is something I agree with on more than maybe a subject or two. I honestly think it's an organization too defuse and disorganized to have much in the way of guiding principles. I think they mostly exist as a manifestation of some feelings that makes noise and rattles cages (and I'm doubtful it translates to actual political power as say the noisy and cage rattling Tea Partiers of yesteryear). 

I looked over the demands, well the copy of them since the original site with the coalition BLM apparently joined doesn't exist anymore. Some grandstanding to be sure. Most won't amount to a hill of beans. Shoot, even if their most limited aims come to pass, some kind of start on unbundling the police, I'd be more than surprised. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 06, 2020, 06:44:25 PM
How much do you want to bet that if I took everything you've posted on CFB51 over the years that I could craft an absolutely devastating hit piece on you?

I mean, probably half of it would be taken out of context, and the other half blown out of proportion, but they'd all be real quotes...

Sh!t, it wouldn't even be hard if I really tried.

Heck, I try to be a pretty careful and even-handed writer. Yet I'll bet if someone tried to do it to me based just on what I've written at The Liberty Papers, they'd be able to make me out to be the love child of Hitler and Vlad the Impaler.
You mean you're NOT?!? Damn man. I had you pegged totally wrong.

I'd like a link to your papers, by the way.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 06, 2020, 06:45:49 PM
As long as many of us are source-blind and context-retarded, there's no use on even have the conversation.
Except we are not those things. Written words are hard sometimes. If we were in a room, things would be much different.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 06, 2020, 06:46:25 PM
By some metrics the recent protests were the largest in the history of the country. But a much, much smaller number of people are actually affiliated with the organisation, which as far as I can tell is somewhat loose.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 06, 2020, 06:52:16 PM
Yet I'll bet if someone tried to do it to me based just on what I've written at The Liberty Papers, they'd be able to make me out to be the love child of Hitler and Vlad the Impaler.
Well then you should give more locker room pep talks.Like the one you gave the Boilers on 10-28-18.What are the Liberty Papers?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 06, 2020, 06:55:07 PM
How much do you want to bet that if I took everything you've posted on CFB51 over the years that I could craft an absolutely devastating hit piece on you?

I mean, probably half of it would be taken out of context, and the other half blown out of proportion, but they'd all be real quotes...

Sh!t, it wouldn't even be hard if I really tried.

Heck, I try to be a pretty careful and even-handed writer. Yet I'll bet if someone tried to do it to me based just on what I've written at The Liberty Papers, they'd be able to make me out to be the love child of Hitler and Vlad the Impaler.
No- I am not talking about a hit piece, or taking something out of context. I am talking about their publicly stated agenda and goals which are written and published in numerous places and for which they do not apologize they are actually proud of them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 06, 2020, 07:01:10 PM
By some metrics the recent protests were the largest in the history of the country. But a much, much smaller number of people are actually affiliated with the organisation, which as far as I can tell is somewhat loose.
 Very accurate.  That was part of my point.  Those who founded the actual organization, and its roots, are well documented.  They have stated goals and beliefs that THEY wrote.   But much of those who marched in their name and with them in recent months are narrowly focused on the racial injustice highlighted by recent events. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 06, 2020, 07:05:23 PM
FYI I haven't written anything at The Liberty Papers for years, except that I posted the letter to Rep Porter and Sens Harris/Feinstein a month ago there just so I'd have it for posterity. 

So it's not worth linking because I've largely retired from political writing. If I was still active, I'd probably just be complaining about why the dang planet-ending meteor is taking its sweet-assed time. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 06, 2020, 07:11:29 PM
I mean, you brought me something meant to fearmonger and make a political point. Should I trust you'll not bring me more of that?

Here's the thing, I'm not going to pretend BLM is something I agree with on more than maybe a subject or two. I honestly think it's an organization too defuse and disorganized to have much in the way of guiding principles. I think they mostly exist as a manifestation of some feelings that makes noise and rattles cages (and I'm doubtful it translates to actual political power as say the noisy and cage rattling Tea Partiers of yesteryear).

I looked over the demands, well the copy of them since the original site with the coalition BLM apparently joined doesn't exist anymore. Some grandstanding to be sure. Most won't amount to a hill of beans. Shoot, even if their most limited aims come to pass, some kind of start on unbundling the police, I'd be more than surprised.
I find you humorous at times.   

the question was being asked by several posters here, several times:  what do they want?   I simply shared BLM’s written words, and spoken words to answer that very simple question.  They have documented exactly what they want.   Exactly.  

That you call that fear mongering to make a political point, is a big swing and a miss, but in your defense that is the way of social media today when the facts upset a person’s narrative.  

I am not even judging their goals. That is not for me to say, although to show my open mindedness, I will admit that I actually think several of their ideas make sense to me.

Now here is where I see your opinion and respectfully disagree:  the things you say won’t amount to a hill of beans, in some case, enjoy broad support by a number of powerful voices within our elected officials.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 06, 2020, 07:12:33 PM
FYI I haven't written anything at The Liberty Papers for years, except that I posted the letter to Rep Porter and Sens Harris/Feinstein a month ago there just so I'd have it for posterity.

So it's not worth linking because I've largely retired from political writing. If I was still active, I'd probably just be complaining about why the dang planet-ending meteor is taking its sweet-assed time.
Send me a PM with a link did you ask Feinstein about her nostradamus like insight in February?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 06, 2020, 07:21:03 PM
Much of how people react on this board is also dependent on what mood they are in, and what/how current events are affecting their day/week/month.

This virus has taken more of a toll than just being a virus. Of that I am certain. I'm also certain that much of the toll it has taken has been media driven, as well as how our elected officials have positioned it for their own gain.

That doesn't even take into account the economic, social and mental aspects. None of it is good, except I will say that my wife and I have grown even closer through this. That might be a rarity?? Not sure.

How about you all here?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 06, 2020, 07:22:33 PM
This wasn't getting it done, so...
(https://i.imgur.com/1J3mvwi.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 06, 2020, 07:24:24 PM
This wasn't getting it done, so...
(https://i.imgur.com/1J3mvwi.jpg)
So....   so what ?   What is your point please. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 06, 2020, 07:24:30 PM
No- I am not talking about a hit piece, or taking something out of context. I am talking about their publicly stated agenda and goals which are written and published in numerous places and for which they do not apologize they are actually proud of them.
Something out of context? The Acton piece is barely even about BLM... It's about M4BL, and conflates the two of them as being identical. 

So they look at the BLM organization (a loose structure (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lives_Matter#Loose_structure) as it is), see that someone or something in the BLM organization has a tie to the M4BL organization, and then looks for every possible way to construe all the worst things that the M4BL organization is looking for as the epitome of what BLM is all about. 

They take a group, state that it is part of and fully endorses another group, and then uses that other group to tar the first group with everything the second--more extreme--group wants.

And that doesn't seem deceptive to you? 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 06, 2020, 07:25:51 PM
Kap choose to GTFO if he hates it here so much. His tweet over the weekend was disgraceful.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 06, 2020, 07:29:56 PM

How about you all here?
Rooting for the planet-ending meteor.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 06, 2020, 07:35:22 PM
I mean, you brought me something meant to fearmonger and make a political point. Should I trust you'll not bring me more of that?

Here's the thing, I'm not going to pretend BLM is something I agree with on more than maybe a subject or two. I honestly think it's an organization too defuse and disorganized to have much in the way of guiding principles. I think they mostly exist as a manifestation of some feelings that makes noise and rattles cages (and I'm doubtful it translates to actual political power as say the noisy and cage rattling Tea Partiers of yesteryear).

I looked over the demands, well the copy of them since the original site with the coalition BLM apparently joined doesn't exist anymore. Some grandstanding to be sure. Most won't amount to a hill of beans. Shoot, even if their most limited aims come to pass, some kind of start on unbundling the police, I'd be more than surprised.
Also, if you don’t know where to look ( which is understandable because their agenda is off limits for MSM media and even their own website to a high degree)   Yes, look at their website, and you can see some of what they believe.  But go to their parent website, M4BL, and you can see every word of their agenda and platform.  

now after you have done that do you still think they are disorganized?   Because it is obvious to me that they are a political force to be reckoned with as mich as the Democratic or Republican Party.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 06, 2020, 07:40:26 PM
I signed up for one of those food delivery services, mostly to try and get out of my cooking rut.  I was excited the first package included salmon, then when they shipped they said they were out of salmon
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 06, 2020, 07:40:35 PM
Something out of context? The Acton piece is barely even about BLM... It's about M4BL, and conflates the two of them as being identical.

So they look at the BLM organization (a loose structure (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lives_Matter#Loose_structure) as it is), see that someone or something in the BLM organization has a tie to the M4BL organization, and then looks for every possible way to construe all the worst things that the M4BL organization is looking for as the epitome of what BLM is all about.

They take a group, state that it is part of and fully endorses another group, and then uses that other group to tar the first group with everything the second--more extreme--group wants.

And that doesn't seem deceptive to you?


 No.  BLM is a partner organization to M4BL.   In fact it appears to me BLM is the face of M4BL.  That is a very wise approach, if you want to keep the more “ transformational” changes they seek, in the background.

but if you listen and watch, much of the agenda of BLM is lightly stated under the umbrella of M4BL, where it is out there for all to see. Also, many of those ideas are being openly discussed by members of our current congress who also energetically support BLM.

but why do you suppose some of the major corporations, like Nike, avoid direct contributions to BLM?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2020, 07:42:52 PM
Then no one can help you understand.  We should all move on, because dinosaurs don't evolve into people.


Cincy, how can you be so impressive on the Area 51 section and so lost here?
I don't believe in some statement of "goals" without a corresponding statement of enablement.

I want a lot of things in life, but enablement is the issue, not the wants.

This, to me, is BS without something concrete and actionable.  It's just palaver, at best.

And garbage at worst, mostly garbage to me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 06, 2020, 07:43:02 PM
I find you humorous at times. 

the question was being asked by several posters here, several times:  what do they want?  I simply shared BLM’s written words, and spoken words to answer that very simple question.  They have documented exactly what they want.  Exactly. 

That you call that fear mongering to make a political point, is a big swing and a miss, but in your defense that is the way of social media today when the facts upset a person’s narrative. 

I am not even judging their goals. That is not for me to say, although to show my open mindedness, I will admit that I actually think several of their ideas make sense to me.

Now here is where I see your opinion and respectfully disagree:  the things you say won’t amount to a hill of beans, in some case, enjoy broad support by a number of powerful voices within our elected officials.
I'm here for the humor.

I'm sorry you brought me something from a think tank that's pretty clear in how it has a narrative, and then say it's just unvarnished truth that I can't believe because it will upset my narrative. You won't listen to the MSM, and I'm probably not going to  read something that slathers its prose in drama. I'm sure I could find some lefty think tank that makes something seem scarier than it is. 

How are you defining broad support? Like broad enough to get things done? Or like a small cluster of famous politicians?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2020, 07:44:32 PM
And I'm not talking about the official BLM whatever, I'm talking about the folks protesting, who likely do not know much at all about official BLM.

I'm trying to understand what THEY want.  If it's just emotional burfle, well, OK then.  If it's something specific than can be DONE, I'm interested.

You can't change opinions of people, you can only change laws, regulations, policies.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 06, 2020, 07:47:36 PM
I signed up for one of those food delivery services, mostly to try and get out of my cooking rut.  I was excited the first package included salmon, then when they shipped they said they were out of salmon
I've got more salmon than I know what to do with. I don't ship, but you can feel free to drive to Palatine and do a pickup.

In 3 weeks it will be a drive to Kenosha, as I'm out of here by July 31.

See you soon.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 06, 2020, 07:48:19 PM
Also, if you don’t know where to look ( which is understandable because their agenda is off limits for MSM media and even their own website to a high degree)  Yes, look at their website, and you can see some of what they believe.  But go to their parent website, M4BL, and you can see every word of their agenda and platform. 

now after you have done that do you still think they are disorganized?  Because it is obvious to me that they are a political force to be reckoned with as mich as the Democratic or Republican Party. 
So the BLM goals are directly quoted from an organization that is associated with? Interesting.

And yeah, I still think their not very organized. I think they can bring certain emotions to bear at times, but lack either control or coherence. If you feel they're a political force on par with the two parties, I just think that sounds like shadow puppets cast large on a wall to scare the children. 

Whatever force it has is in being a vague idea, not much more than that. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 06, 2020, 08:12:25 PM
I signed up for one of those food delivery services, mostly to try and get out of my cooking rut.  I was excited the first package included salmon, then when they shipped they said they were out of salmon
By the time you get it you'll wish you had lutefisk
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 06, 2020, 08:13:07 PM
I don't believe in some statement of "goals" without a corresponding statement of enablement.

I want a lot of things in life, but enablement is the issue, not the wants.

This, to me, is BS without something concrete and actionable.  It's just palaver, at best.

And garbage at worst, mostly garbage to me.
Isn't that the politicians' job?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 06, 2020, 08:15:03 PM
I've got more salmon than I know what to do with. I don't ship, but you can feel free to drive to Palatine and do a pickup.

In 3 weeks it will be a drive to Kenosha, as I'm out of here by July 31.

See you soon.
Heh I have a hard time driving to aldis for it. I don't really love it, but part of that is not cooking it enough to get good at it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 06, 2020, 08:17:05 PM
So the BLM goals are directly quoted from an organization that is associated with? Interesting.

And yeah, I still think their not very organized. I think they can bring certain emotions to bear at times, but lack either control or coherence. If you feel they're a political force on par with the two parties, I just think that sounds like shadow puppets cast large on a wall to scare the children.

Whatever force it has is in being a vague idea, not much more than that.
“ an organization they are associated with”.    Now that is humorous.  Parent organization, co founded, etc etc...

As usual, we will agree to disagree. Different opinions about the same facts.  I encourage you to look a bit closer at the signs being held or graffiti being sprayed.  When you see the ones that say “ eliminate prisons” and “ redistribute the wealth” and “death to capitalism” you can just rise your theory and assume those are not associated with BLM or any of the same people. 

apparently some of the most socially aware and focused companies, like Nike, refuse to donate to BLM because they don’t agree with their agenda.  Must not believe in social justice?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 06, 2020, 08:17:36 PM
Heh I have a hard time driving to aldis for it. I don't really love it, but part of that is not cooking it enough to get good at it.
Get an electric smoker
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 06, 2020, 08:25:46 PM
“ an organization they are associated with”.    Now that is humorous.  Parent organization, co founded, etc etc...
 
We all know it's a vast top-down highly organized and completely internally consistent group, taking orders from the HBIC... Oprah. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 06, 2020, 08:41:39 PM

We all know it's a vast top-down highly organized and completely internally consistent group, taking orders from the HBIC... Oprah.
You just can’t submit to facts when your narrative is challenged can you.   You throw a lot of data out there on COVID.  But when you see the written words of a political organization that is front and center you can only try to demean the messenger.

nice.   I see that a lot these days.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 06, 2020, 08:47:27 PM

We all know it's a vast top-down highly organized and completely internally consistent group, taking orders from the HBIC... Oprah.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/black-lives-matter-releases-policy-agenda-n620966

this is not new news.   Sorry to upset you.  This is from NBC news, an extremely liberal network.  


what personal attack do you have for me now?  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 06, 2020, 09:00:09 PM
“ an organization they are associated with”.    Now that is humorous.  Parent organization, co founded, etc etc...

As usual, we will agree to disagree. Different opinions about the same facts.  I encourage you to look a bit closer at the signs being held or graffiti being sprayed.  When you see the ones that say “ eliminate prisons” and “ redistribute the wealth” and “death to capitalism” you can just rise your theory and assume those are not associated with BLM or any of the same people.

apparently some of the most socially aware and focused companies, like Nike, refuse to donate to BLM because they don’t agree with their agenda.  Must not believe in social justice?
Agreeing to disagree seems to be what it is. We're digging into signage and graffiti at this point. 

Again, I'm not particularly ride or die for BLM in general. I think certain elements of prisons need to be reformed, same with police. I'd have to dig in on the Nike stuff, though a quick google didn't bring up the word "refused." Granted, I also understand the reasons for not donating to the org, since as I said earlier, I doubt its organization.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 06, 2020, 09:32:32 PM
Get an electric smoker
I'm going for that part when the salmon is just cooked through and the skin is the consistency of crispy bacon
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 06, 2020, 09:40:34 PM
Isn't that the politicians' job?
yes, but they do everything but their job

mostly finger pointing and blaming of the "other" party
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 06, 2020, 10:23:50 PM
Protests against systemic racism held in 300-plus U.S. cities following the death of George Floyd did not cause a significant increase in coronavirus infections, according to a team of economists who have published their findings in a 60-page paper released by the National Bureau of Economic Research; these somewhat surprising results are supported by Covid-19 testing data in many populous cities where demonstrations were held.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/07/01/research-determines-protests-did-not-cause-spike-in-coronavirus-cases/?fbclid=IwAR3S1PTEWJWRvmYi08olXHGJpO7rFccPjpuyVUS_fnf5uUUuCqodPWdbnp8#639511c17dac (https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/07/01/research-determines-protests-did-not-cause-spike-in-coronavirus-cases/?fbclid=IwAR3S1PTEWJWRvmYi08olXHGJpO7rFccPjpuyVUS_fnf5uUUuCqodPWdbnp8#639511c17dac)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 06, 2020, 10:26:20 PM
Before all the looting and riots, the mediots were howling that the virus was racist, disproportionately infecting "People of Color" 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 06, 2020, 10:42:45 PM
Protests against systemic racism held in 300-plus U.S. cities following the death of George Floyd did not cause a significant increase in coronavirus infections, according to a team of economists who have published their findings in a 60-page paper released by the National Bureau of Economic Research; these somewhat surprising results are supported by Covid-19 testing data in many populous cities where demonstrations were held.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/07/01/research-determines-protests-did-not-cause-spike-in-coronavirus-cases/?fbclid=IwAR3S1PTEWJWRvmYi08olXHGJpO7rFccPjpuyVUS_fnf5uUUuCqodPWdbnp8#639511c17dac (https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/07/01/research-determines-protests-did-not-cause-spike-in-coronavirus-cases/?fbclid=IwAR3S1PTEWJWRvmYi08olXHGJpO7rFccPjpuyVUS_fnf5uUUuCqodPWdbnp8#639511c17dac)
😂😂😂.  You can’t make this stuff up.    They aren’t even asking new cases if they were protesters lol.  Apparently the mayors of several large cities, like LA are now admitting that the protests did spread the virus..
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 06, 2020, 10:58:25 PM
https://www.facebook.com/750861794951635/posts/2942216512482808/?vh=e


Police brutality?   Or just funny shit!   
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 06, 2020, 11:04:20 PM
My 2 cents. I honestly don’t know from a legislative standpoint how much more can be done to help blacks get on equal footing in this country. Maybe that is my coming from my blind, naive white privilege but I really don’t.

If their goal is to stop police from killing blacks then they are trying to stop something that happens rarely anyway.  I’m sure we are all aware whites are killed by cops more than blacks are. The rebuttal to that always seems to be that they make up 13% of the population but account for 25% or so of police killings. But blacks also commit roughly 50% of the murders in the country which leads me to believe they may be more likely to interact with the cops in a violent way.

I’ve heard the study about black sounding names not getting as many call backs on their resume.  But that was basically limited to first names like Lakeisha or Jamal. When historically black last names like Jefferson or Washington were looked at there was no difference in call backs. If anyone cared enough to do a study on white hillbilly names like Betty Sue or Jim Bob or Bubba I wonder if it wouldn’t yield the same results as Lakeisha or Jamal.

Any degree of better is better and if there is something that can be done to help further black opportunities then it should be done. But I have to admit that sometimes I just kinda shrug my shoulders like “what else can we do?” from a legislative standpoint.  But there legitimately might be a ton that I’m just missing.

I’m still in the camp that the greatest obstacle to blacks escaping poverty is the absence of black fathers.

My two cents.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2020, 05:51:19 AM
Isn't that the politicians' job?
I don't complain about something if I don't have some kind of outline of a proposal to deal with it.

I want unicorns with rainbows coming out of their derriers too.  I don't expect politicians to figure out how.

Provide something tangible and concrete in terms of proposals or to me, it's just whining and virtue signaling, and socializing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 07, 2020, 06:05:40 AM
I don't complain about something if I don't have some kind of outline of a proposal to deal with it.

I want unicorns with rainbows coming out of their derriers too.  I don't expect politicians to figure out how.

Provide something tangible and concrete in terms of proposals or to me, it's just whining and virtue signaling, and socializing.

I dunno man if I get crappy food at a restaurant I just tell them them the food was crap. I don't typically have a Powerpoint presentation prepared on what could be done better. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2020, 06:19:18 AM
That obviously is not my point.  If I want equal treatment, I would propose something, anything, that a politician might do to promote that.

You can't change people's minds about racism by legislation, at least not short term.  If black folks feel that businesses keep an eye on them without merit in a store, you can't fix that, period.  In my experience around here, the vast majority of people working in any store are African American anyway.  The majority of the police are African American.

If you don't have proposals, I don't have anything other than sympathy, and figure "Well, I don't know what to DO about your problems."

Not every problem has a solution at least not short term.

So, I still don't know what the protesters WANT out of this other than rainbows and unicorns.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 07, 2020, 06:27:54 AM
That obviously is not my point.  If I want equal treatment, I would propose something, anything, that a politician might do to promote that.

You can't change people's minds about racism by legislation, at least not short term.  If black folks feel that businesses keep an eye on them without merit in a store, you can't fix that, period.  In my experience around here, the vast majority of people working in any store are African American anyway.  The majority of the police are African American.

If you don't have proposals, I don't have anything other than sympathy, and figure "Well, I don't know what to DO about your problems."

Not every problem has a solution at least not short term.

So, I still don't know what the protesters WANT out of this other than rainbows and unicorns.
But it is your point. Whether you like it or not, protests are a step to effecting change. The whole point is not to implement some law but to tell the leaders, (and voters) what they want. They've said that, and time will tell what will be done about it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2020, 07:01:20 AM
So, the protesters want outcomes that are broadly impossible to achieve by legislation.

And the politicians will throw them a sop that has no chance of DOING anything in real life.  And the protesters will come out again the next time they judge some police action as being improper.

I view this as exceedingly immature and childish.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 07, 2020, 07:35:29 AM
So, the protesters want outcomes that are broadly impossible to achieve by legislation.

And the politicians will throw them a sop that has no chance of DOING anything in real life.  And the protesters will come out again the next time they judge some police action as being improper.

I view this as exceedingly immature and childish.


Maybe you view it that way, but various legislatures are passing various bills in response to the protests, so it's clear they don't view it as childish, and it's clear the protests are getting things done, so I'm not sure I get your point.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 07, 2020, 08:23:06 AM
I dunno man if I get crappy food at a restaurant I just tell them them the food was crap. I don't typically have a Powerpoint presentation prepared on what could be done better.

Oh great. Now I am picturing Johnny Paycheck, getting all Karen on a manager. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2020, 08:30:16 AM
Protestors are definitely getting things done.

They got Target and CVS and many others to pull out of some Chicago neighborhoods. Now that's what I call getting things done.

Walmart is going to rebuild, so the protestors aren't perfect.


The next round of protests will be about how some Chicago neighborhoods are food and Rx deserts, due to racist business policies.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 07, 2020, 08:33:42 AM
Oh great. Now I am picturing Johnny Paycheck, getting all Karen on a manager.
You Can Take This Food And Shove It
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2020, 08:54:29 AM
Maybe you view it that way, but various legislatures are passing various bills in response to the protests, so it's clear they don't view it as childish, and it's clear the protests are getting things done, so I'm not sure I get your point.
Yeah, the legislation I see being passed is largely not going to address the issues cited here.

Connect the WANTS and the LEGISLATION and you'll see how rarely they intersect.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2020, 08:58:49 AM
:banghead:

They want to not grow up in the "bad" part of town.
They want to not be followed in stores by staff.
They want their resume to stand on its own and not be negatively influenced by the name at the top.
They want a speeding ticket to be an annoyance, not a life-or-death situation.
They don't want to be a box to check off as a friend or lover.
They don't want to be 'they'.

Why is equality for others such a blind spot for some of you?!?  It's disgusting.
Let's stipulate these are what protesters would like to have happen, and connect any of these with any plausible legislation.

1.  Can't be legislated, or changed, in any way I can see.
2.  Can't be legislated.
3.  Cant' be legislated.
4.  Can't be legislated.  (Is this really a problem?)
5.  Can't be legislated.  (I don't even know what it means.)
6.  Can't be legislated.

You simply can't legislate "equality" and "fairness".  You can legislate affirmative action, which has been done decades ago.  I saw it up close in action where I worked, and it was by no means ensuring equality at all.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 07, 2020, 09:01:14 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5T40yF6e4k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5T40yF6e4k)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 07, 2020, 09:18:08 AM
Yeah, the legislation I see being passed is largely not going to address the issues cited here.

Connect the WANTS and the LEGISLATION and you'll see how rarely they intersect.
Let's stipulate these are what protesters would like to have happen, and connect any of these with any plausible legislation.

1.  Can't be legislated, or changed, in any way I can see.
2.  Can't be legislated.
3.  Cant' be legislated.
4.  Can't be legislated.  (Is this really a problem?)
5.  Can't be legislated.  (I don't even know what it means.)
6.  Can't be legislated.

You simply can't legislate "equality" and "fairness".  You can legislate affirmative action, which has been done decades ago.  I saw it up close in action where I worked, and it was by no means ensuring equality at all.
I mean...this is clearly false. They have been legislating equality and fairness for some time. The 14th Amendment is pretty much all about legislating equality and fairness.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2020, 09:28:29 AM
OK, then, 14th Amendment, long time ago, so we already have equity and fairness.  Huh, problem solved and we didn't know it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 07, 2020, 09:38:57 AM
I mean...this is clearly false. They have been legislating equality and fairness for some time. The 14th Amendment is pretty much all about legislating equality and fairness.
Right.  Minorities have the same rights and privileges as everyone else.  Cincy’s point is you can’t pass legislation that makes it illegal for a cop to be suspicious of a black person.  You can’t pass legislation that makes it illegal for a clerk at Macy’s to keep an eye on a black person.

Btw, those happenings aren’t unique to people of color.  There are plenty of white people walking around who would draw an extra look from a cop or store employee.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2020, 09:47:06 AM
Right.  Minorities have the same rights and privileges as everyone else.  Cincy’s point is you can’t pass legislation that makes it illegal for a cop to be suspicious of a black person.  You can’t pass legislation that makes it illegal for a clerk at Macy’s to keep an eye on a black person.

Btw, those happenings aren’t unique to people of color.  There are plenty of white people walking around who would draw an extra look from a cop or store employee.
(https://i.imgur.com/0E9vf3E.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2020, 09:48:25 AM
Tell me what legislation would deal with any of these wants?

They want to not grow up in the "bad" part of town.
They want to not be followed in stores by staff.
They want their resume to stand on its own and not be negatively influenced by the name at the top.
They want a speeding ticket to be an annoyance, not a life-or-death situation.
They don't want to be a box to check off as a friend or lover.
They don't want to be 'they'.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 07, 2020, 09:55:24 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/0E9vf3E.png)
I’m not even talking to that extreme.  If you are an overweight white woman with a couple of ankle tattoos, cutoff jean shorts, and a Roll Tide tank top you are probably being looked at a little harder if you walk into a high end store on Rodeo Drive.

Look, I might be wrong but I’ve thought for awhile people are more  prejudiced against what they perceive is your social class than your race.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 07, 2020, 09:59:24 AM
So the BLM goals are directly quoted from an organization that is associated with? Interesting.

And yeah, I still think their not very organized. I think they can bring certain emotions to bear at times, but lack either control or coherence. If you feel they're a political force on par with the two parties, I just think that sounds like shadow puppets cast large on a wall to scare the children.

Whatever force it has is in being a vague idea, not much more than that.
If their not organized, then who are all of these corporations sending money too? I was watching something on one of the cable networks the other day (A&E I think, but not sure). They must have ran this commercial about 4 or 5 times in an hour where they stated that they were financially supporting various Black centered groups including BLM. So my question is, if they are sending them money, where is it going? There must me some kind of organization as they are collecting money. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 07, 2020, 10:02:23 AM
OK, then, 14th Amendment, long time ago, so we already have equity and fairness.  Huh, problem solved and we didn't know it.

I ate last night yet it appears I may eat again today. Why eat if you are going to have to do it again might as well give up.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 07, 2020, 10:05:03 AM
Right.  Minorities have the same rights and privileges as everyone else.  Cincy’s point is you can’t pass legislation that makes it illegal for a cop to be suspicious of a black person.  You can’t pass legislation that makes it illegal for a clerk at Macy’s to keep an eye on a black person.

Btw, those happenings aren’t unique to people of color.  There are plenty of white people walking around who would draw an extra look from a cop or store employee.
Sure, it is difficult, but it's hardly impossible. People are working on these things as we type. For example, in my jurisdiction there is a pretty big effort to identify and eliminate paths into the system for minorities. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 07, 2020, 10:07:09 AM
You just can’t submit to facts when your narrative is challenged can you.  You throw a lot of data out there on COVID.  But when you see the written words of a political organization that is front and center you can only try to demean the messenger.

nice.  I see that a lot these days. 
No, I'm trying to clarify that BLM and M4BL are completely different organizations. Neither is "parent" nor "child" to each other. M4BL is a coalition with members from a lot of racial justice groups, including BLM, but it doesn't appear that either is "taking marching orders" from the other. 

Is BLM headed by some left-wing radicals? Yes, and if you want to impugn them, there are some things on their OWN website that you can point to. But they are not M4BL and M4BL is not their parent organization. Don't conflate the two like Acton did.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2020, 10:07:25 AM
Sure, it is difficult, but it's hardly impossible. People are working on these things as we type. For example, in my jurisdiction there is a pretty big effort to identify and eliminate paths into the system for minorities.
I'm confused by this one Max. Can you elaborate?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2020, 10:08:34 AM
No, I'm trying to clarify that BLM and M4BL are completely different organizations. Neither is "parent" nor "child" to each other. M4BL is a coalition with members from a lot of racial justice groups, including BLM, but it doesn't appear that either is "taking marching orders" from the other.

Is BLM headed by some left-wing radicals? Yes, and if you want to impugn them, there are some things on their OWN website that you can point to. But they are not M4BL and M4BL is not their parent organization. Don't conflate the two like Acton did. 

Oprah Winfrey Network? This is getting really confusing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 07, 2020, 10:14:36 AM
Sure, it is difficult, but it's hardly impossible. People are working on these things as we type. For example, in my jurisdiction there is a pretty big effort to identify and eliminate paths into the system for minorities.
What does that even mean?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 07, 2020, 10:57:14 AM
I'm confused by this one Max. Can you elaborate?
Yes.  There is lots of research out there, but to summarize it broadly:

1. Minorities tend to be over represented in the criminal and juvenile justice system
2. They tend to be under represented in the more lenient aspects of the criminal and juvenile justice system (diversion, probation, etc.)
3. Contact with the criminal and juvenile justice system, especially incarceration, causes problems and worse outcomes for people down the road

So the effort has been to identify why this occurs.  For example, a mostly white suburb may have their own diversion program and youth can avoid the system entirely, while a youth in a predominantly black community would typically be referred directly to the system.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2020, 11:02:26 AM
Can any of the BLM protester's demands be met with legislation?  

(Again, I am not talking about BLM itself.)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on July 07, 2020, 11:35:21 AM
Most black people are killed by: other black people. Not the police.

Blacks are only about 13% of the population, maybe less. Yet they commit about 52% of all homicides in the US. And 93% of all black homicide victims were killed by: other black people.

I think there is a poverty/class problem in this country, and people are miscategorizing it as racism. Reduction in poverty and giving people more opportunities in life tends to lead to reductions in crime and crime rates.

All this virtue signaling and sandbagging bullshit isn't helping anyone. If people really want to help blacks in this country, they ought to do something about improving education and job opportunities in the poor black inner cities, they ought to do something about the corrupt politicians (mostly all Democratic by the way) who run these cities into the ground, and they ought to do something about employers paying these people a living wage. Walmart for instance is the largest single employer in the US, yet doesn't pay it's workers an actual living wage. Walmart actually has programs where they teach their workers how to get on government programs to get aid to cover the shortfalls in their living expenses.

Just look at the millions of manufacturing and other US jobs that have been wiped out here and gone off to China, never to return. With the financialization of the US economy coinciding with American companies moving to China- US multinationals have made record amounts of money by exploiting China, and where has that record profit gone? In the hands of a very tiny % of executives and shareholders through stock repurchasing programs. The American worker has gotten virtually none of it.

The average CEO compensation for a Fortune 500 alone has grown about 1,000% since 1980. 1,000%. Typical worker compensation? 12%. It would take an average worker about 1,000 years of working to make what an average CEO makes in just one year.

This is the real problem. And the black people have probably been hit the hardest by this outsourcing spree. Cities like Detroit which have a huge black population thrived when those black people had decent, well paying jobs which gave them a livable wage. Look at Detroit now. It has lost basically all of it's manufacturing jobs. The state of Michigan lost 50% of all of it's manufacturing jobs from 2000-2010 alone.

Of course US multinationals will tweet black lives matter or virtue signal or do other meaningless PR stunts- because it will allow them to shift blame and not have to answer any questions. Jamie Dimon kneeling in front of a giant bank vault at a Chase bank was just too much. I literally broke out in laughter. These corporate people are complete ass clowns. And the masses fall for their bullshit hook line and sinker.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 07, 2020, 11:55:00 AM
Good Post Mdot
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2020, 12:06:01 PM
Better education, jobs and investment in poor areas. Better infrastructure too.

It might be too late for Illinois. Credit rating is one rung above junk, and people with money are leaving.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 07, 2020, 12:06:16 PM
Most black people are killed by: other black people. Not the police.

Blacks are only about 13% of the population, maybe less. Yet they commit about 52% of all homicides in the US. And 93% of all black homicide victims were killed by: other black people.

I think there is a poverty/class problem in this country, and people are miscategorizing it as racism. Reduction in poverty and giving people more opportunities in life tends to lead to reductions in crime and crime rates.

All this virtue signaling and sandbagging bullshit isn't helping anyone. If people really want to help blacks in this country, they ought to do something about improving education and job opportunities in the poor black inner cities, they ought to do something about the corrupt politicians (mostly all Democratic by the way) who run these cities into the ground, and they ought to do something about employers paying these people a living wage. Walmart for instance is the largest single employer in the US, yet doesn't pay it's workers an actual living wage. Walmart actually has programs where they teach their workers how to get on government programs to get aid to cover the shortfalls in their living expenses.

Just look at the millions of manufacturing and other US jobs that have been wiped out here and gone off to China, never to return. With the financialization of the US economy coinciding with American companies moving to China- US multinationals have made record amounts of money by exploiting China, and where has that record profit gone? In the hands of a very tiny % of executives and shareholders through stock repurchasing programs. The American worker has gotten virtually none of it.

The average CEO compensation for a Fortune 500 alone has grown about 1,000% since 1980. 1,000%. Typical worker compensation? 12%. It would take an average worker about 1,000 years of working to make what an average CEO makes in just one year.

This is the real problem. And the black people have probably been hit the hardest by this outsourcing spree. Cities like Detroit which have a huge black population thrived when those black people had decent, well paying jobs which gave them a livable wage. Look at Detroit now. It has lost basically all of it's manufacturing jobs. The state of Michigan lost 50% of all of it's manufacturing jobs from 2000-2010 alone.

Of course US multinationals will tweet black lives matter or virtue signal or do other meaningless PR stunts- because it will allow them to shift blame and not have to answer any questions. Jamie Dimon kneeling in front of a giant bank vault at a Chase bank was just too much. I literally broke out in laughter. These corporate people are complete ass clowns. And the masses fall for their bullshit hook line and sinker.
I agree with most of your post except for the part about companies paying a "living wage". It is not the job of a company or corporation to pay a living wage. They offer jobs that pay what it would take to have someone fill the job and not more than the job is worth. It is up to the employee to make themselves more marketable or valuable to increase their earning power. 

For example, I could hire someone to mow my grass if I feel I am getting a value from it. I may place that value at $20 and would be willing to pay someone that amount to mow it. However, if nobody feels that $20 is worth the time it would take to mow the lawn, I would have to do it myself or increase the amount that I am willing to pay. At some point, that price point is reached and I have to make a decision to either pay more, do it myself or simply not mow it. (As I live in the country, I can choose to not mow my grass as I have no ordinances saying otherwise).

The same applies to businesses. They can choose to put the job out there at a price point and people will either work for that amount, or they won't. If they feel the job is worth being done at a higher price point, they will increase the amount they are willing to pay. If not, they will just not fill the job. But what they do not have to do is make sure they are paying what some to perceive as a "living wage". I don't want McDonald's or Wendy's paying a living wage to the kid that can't assemble a hamburger correctly and then charge me significantly more money for an inferior product.  That is a recipe for failure. At some price point, people will simply not frequent the business. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 07, 2020, 12:34:02 PM
They can achieve most of these demands with one simple step.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9d/19/40/9d194004fdf64ae4c480746d32169064.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2020, 12:35:34 PM
 roughly 500 stores, Walmart has raised starting hourly pay for team associates, a newly created role, to $12 from $11. The company said some of these new hires will work as cashiers, people who help stock shelves and deli workers.Jan 24, 2020

Walmart raises starting hourly wage to $12 in 500 stores

What is a "living wage" anyway?  Should I expect to be paid more when I am reliant on the company to train me from scratch?

If I show up on time, am honest, and work decently well, am I likely to have opportunities in management at Walmart?


 (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/24/walmart-raises-starting-hourly-wage-to-12-in-500-stores.html#:~:text=within the store.-,In roughly 500 stores%2C Walmart has raised starting hourly pay,stock shelves and deli workers.)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 07, 2020, 02:09:41 PM
They can achieve most of these demands with one simple step.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9d/19/40/9d194004fdf64ae4c480746d32169064.jpg)
Brutal ignorance.
You can go back as far as you want - back to the very first city - and crime is highest in the poorest area.  Your meme isn't a simple step, it's nonsensical. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 07, 2020, 02:10:39 PM
roughly 500 stores, Walmart has raised starting hourly pay for team associates, a newly created role, to $12 from $11. The company said some of these new hires will work as cashiers, people who help stock shelves and deli workers.Jan 24, 2020

Walmart raises starting hourly wage to $12 in 500 stores

What is a "living wage" anyway?  Should I expect to be paid more when I am reliant on the company to train me from scratch?

If I show up on time, am honest, and work decently well, am I likely to have opportunities in management at Walmart?
Yes, a family of billionaires nickel-and-diming impoverished workers is a major part of the problem.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 07, 2020, 02:13:56 PM
Tell me what legislation would deal with any of these wants?

They want to not grow up in the "bad" part of town.
They want to not be followed in stores by staff.
They want their resume to stand on its own and not be negatively influenced by the name at the top.
They want a speeding ticket to be an annoyance, not a life-or-death situation.
They don't want to be a box to check off as a friend or lover.
They don't want to be 'they'.
Thank you for asking that question.  Now, I'm sure there are numerous acts of legislation that could at least help with these wants, BUT...
your point is that it's not about legislation and I agree.  These points are born of the systematic racism most of the posters here deny exists.  
How about all of the people who assure us they're not racist stop doing the dozen or so tiny acts that make it easy  to ask if they're racist?

Certain people need to change their behavior.  It should be easy.  Just like telling the poor to stop breaking the law.  It's a simple step.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2020, 02:16:07 PM
Do you think legislation can correct this properly?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 07, 2020, 02:19:32 PM
No one thing can correct decades of wrongdoing.  Any fixes I've suggested would take like 2 generations to work - and while that's a long time, it's a lot shorter than how long it's been mucked up to get us here.

Any quick fix is B.S.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2020, 02:20:19 PM
Certain people NEED to change their behavior.  OK, I agree that is desirable.  But in my experience, human beings are recalcitrant entities loathe to alter behaviors, especially deep seated feelings they may not admit to having.

Protesting, and rioting in particular I suspect, is more likely than not to entrench those feelings rather than alter them.

I may as well say "Certain people need to stay in school and not have babies when they are 15 and be honest and diligent."  That is also true, everyone would agree I think, but saying it and wishing for it hardly makes it any more a reality.

Just seeing a NEED and articulating it is fine, I suppose, but it doesn't offer any solution, or potential solution, or cure, or much of anything.

Some problems lack practicable solutions.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 07, 2020, 02:29:34 PM
Brutal ignorance.
You can go back as far as you want - back to the very first city - and crime is highest in the poorest area.  Your meme isn't a simple step, it's nonsensical.
WV and Mississippi annually battle it out for poorest state in the country yet both have crime rates that put them anywhere from the top half to top third of the country.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 07, 2020, 02:41:45 PM
Thank you for asking that question.  Now, I'm sure there are numerous acts of legislation that could at least help with these wants, BUT...
your point is that it's not about legislation and I agree.  These points are born of the systematic racism most of the posters here deny exists. 
How about all of the people who assure us they're not racist stop doing the dozen or so tiny acts that make it easy  to ask if they're racist?

Certain people need to change their behavior.  It should be easy.  Just like telling the poor to stop breaking the law.  It's a simple step.
When I hear systemic racism I think of federal and state regulations and laws that are set up to make achieving the American Dream harder for minorities. I don’t see that and that doesn’t seem to be what you are talking about.

It seems like you are addressing individuals who are racist and, yes, those people are certainly out there. But I don’t think of that as systemic racism.  Certainly individual behavior can improve but from a legislative standpoint I don’t know you can address that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 07, 2020, 03:07:51 PM
Brutal ignorance.
You can go back as far as you want - back to the very first city - and crime is highest in the poorest area.  Your meme isn't a simple step, it's nonsensical.
Nice excuse, but there are plenty of poor people that aren't criminals.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2020, 03:47:29 PM
Need to build trust. 2-way street. I don't know why I've never thought of this.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2020, 04:11:47 PM
I gather the protesters want something no legislation can give them, no government can mandate, no mayor can provide, so I guess they will protest until it gets cold again.  Of course, I don't mean every single protester, I imagine some of them have some substantive proposals and ideas.

We could make lynching a Federal crime for example, so cover all the lynching that occur in the US each year, thought the penalty might have to wait for the states to exercise their process in trying the accused.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 07, 2020, 04:15:08 PM
Thank you for asking that question.  Now, I'm sure there are numerous acts of legislation that could at least help with these wants, BUT...
your point is that it's not about legislation and I agree.  These points are born of the systematic racism most of the posters here deny exists. 
How about all of the people who assure us they're not racist stop doing the dozen or so tiny acts that make it easy  to ask if they're racist?

Certain people need to change their behavior.  It should be easy.  Just like telling the poor to stop breaking the law.  It's a simple step.

Can you cite examples of "systemic racism" that is codified in law or public policy? I keep hearing about "systemic racism" and that something needs to be done about it. But so far, it is nothing more than a vague term that nobody has been able to specifically identify. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2020, 04:23:27 PM
One might claim that requiring Asians to have higher academic standards to be admitted to Harvard than white folks is "systemic racism".

Maybe not.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2020, 04:25:03 PM
The "systemic disadvantage" is primarily between the wealthy and the poor.  If the poor get into some kind of trouble, money problems, credit problems, legal problems, they have far far less recourse than wealthy people.

A wealthy black person is in better shape than a poor white person, I think everyone would agree.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 07, 2020, 04:28:26 PM
Systemic racism would be rules and laws that give one person an advantage over another person, based entirely on the color of their skin. Examples would be hiring quotas, and affirmative action. 


So systemic racism does indeed exist, but not in the way that it is often presented. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 07, 2020, 04:30:44 PM
Yep. The people who need to band together are blacks living in inner housing projects and whites living in rural trailer courts.

They have more in common than either group would probably believe or care to admit.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 07, 2020, 04:35:13 PM
No one thing can correct decades of wrongdoing.  or wrong living
FIFY
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2020, 04:38:43 PM
Systemic racism would be rules and laws that give one person an advantage over another person, based entirely on the color of their skin. Examples would be hiring quotas, and affirmative action.


So systemic racism does indeed exist, but not in the way that it is often presented.
I've "lost" quite a few projects in my 20 years of business to DBE/WBE firms who were not as qualified as mine. It's a real thing. Now, I don't even go after anything if there is a DBE/WBE component. It's not worth the effort for my business.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 07, 2020, 04:40:48 PM
Yep. The people who need to band together are blacks living in inner housing projects and whites living in rural trailer courts.

They have more in common than either group would probably believe or care to admit.
That was a major goal of Martin Luther King before he got murdered. Jesse Jackson picked it up after him. It hasn't been a big of goal lately as far as I can tell
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 07, 2020, 04:44:04 PM
BLM would certainly reject the color blind society promoted by MLK, right along with the self sufficiency that was championed by Malcolm X. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2020, 04:49:14 PM
That was a major goal of Martin Luther King before he got murdered. Jesse Jackson picked it up after him. It hasn't been a big of goal lately as far as I can tell
Jesse Jackson was MLK's body guard. He's also a wicked anti-Semite. 

No respect from me.

MLK, he is not. Not even close.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 07, 2020, 04:50:54 PM
BLM would certainly reject the color blind society promoted by MLK, right along with the self sufficiency that was championed by Malcolm X.
Wouldn't be that different than how Americans viewed them when they lived.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 07, 2020, 04:54:16 PM
WV and Mississippi annually battle it out for poorest state in the country yet both have crime rates that put them anywhere from the top half to top third of the country.
I cite cities and you bring up states.  
:banghead:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 07, 2020, 04:54:36 PM
Systemic racism would be rules and laws that give one person an advantage over another person, based entirely on the color of their skin. Examples would be hiring quotas, and affirmative action.


So systemic racism does indeed exist, but not in the way that it is often presented.
"Systemic" doesn't always mean codified.

For example, read this (https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2413&context=articles#:~:text=Across the distribution%2C blacks receive,carrying mandatory minimum sen- tences.) on sentencing disparities. 

There's a lot to read there, but the key takeaway is that when you compare the actual offenses that whites and blacks are arrested for, as documented by the arresting officer on the police report, black men spend more time in prison than white men by almost 10%. 

One of the reasons is this:

Quote
In the federal system, more than half of the black-white sentence disparity that is unexplained by the arrest offense and offenders’ prior traits can be explained by initial charge decisions, particularly the prosecutors’ decision to file charges that carry “mandatory minimum” sentences. Ceteris paribus, they do so 65 percent more often against black defendants. These findings highlight the empirical importance of obtaining measures of criminal conduct that are not themselves the product of the legal process. They also suggest that recent policy and scholarly debates that have focused heavily on the disparity risks associated with judicial discretion may have overlooked one of the most important actors: the federal prosecutor.

There's no law which states that prosecutors should more aggressively charge black men for the same offenses that they charge white men, in particularly more often charging them with versions of the crime which result in mandatory minimum sentences. But they do. 

If it was one or two rogue prosecutors, that wouldn't be systemic racism. But when it's an effect that seems to carry across age or location boundaries, it makes you think that maybe--for whatever reason--prosecutors are more lenient on whites than blacks. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 07, 2020, 04:55:41 PM
If poverty were the driving force, then Appalachia would be an absolute war zone. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2020, 04:56:54 PM
If poverty were the driving force, then Appalachia would be an absolute war zone.
Parts of it are not in good shape with drugs being a critical factor there as well.

What other factors might be implicated here?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 07, 2020, 04:58:22 PM
I may as well say "Certain people need to stay in school and not have babies when they are 15 and be honest and diligent."  That is also true, everyone would agree I think, but saying it and wishing for it hardly makes it any more a reality.

Just seeing a NEED and articulating it is fine, I suppose, but it doesn't offer any solution, or potential solution, or cure, or much of anything.

Some problems lack practicable solutions.
Exactly right.  
Which makes it a systemic problem with no one-stop solution.  Spending the money to prevent HS dropouts is proactive and cheaper than incarcerating them or providing assistance to a teen mom later. 

All of the naysayers of this stuff seem to be shrugging their shoulders that this one thing won't fix it or that one thing won't fix it.  Well no shit, lol, no one thing will fix it.   
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 07, 2020, 05:00:18 PM
So fix it for us. How many steps would it take, what are they, and how will they be implemented? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2020, 05:02:09 PM
I have been open to suggestions and have not heard many beyond throw money at the problems, in effect.

I've asked what the protesters want, and the list of their wants are things no government can provide because they want, if the list is correct, changes in attitudes.  That's nice and all, but not going to happen.

It would help if the protesters wanted changes that government can actually manage to do.  If it's more money for education, maybe that would help over time, I don't think the way we fund education is equitable in this country.  Obviously, there are other issues that make educating poorer people a challenge, no matter the color of their skin.

How much of all of this is mostly related to wealth?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 07, 2020, 05:05:37 PM
Can you cite examples of "systemic racism" that is codified in law or public policy? I keep hearing about "systemic racism" and that something needs to be done about it. But so far, it is nothing more than a vague term that nobody has been able to specifically identify.
It's not about law or public policy.  

There's no law that blacks are more likely to be convicted of a crime - it's a jury which causes it.
There's no policy that Jennifer gets the job over Latonya - it's the company/person hiring which causes it.

You're asking about legal racism and that's not what systematic racism is - it's the whole system - the people in power, the decision-makers who cause it.  

That's why there isn't an easy one-answer fix.  That's an absurdity.  It takes those in power (including the random citizen of a jury) to change their behavior.  The system in "systematic" isn't the government, it's the people.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2020, 05:06:54 PM
So, they are against racism in general, and want it to end?  

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 07, 2020, 05:07:59 PM
Parts of it are not in good shape with drugs being a critical factor there as well.

What other factors might be implicated here?
Population density?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 07, 2020, 05:08:18 PM
I have been open to suggestions and have not heard many beyond throw money at the problems, in effect.

I've asked what the protesters want, and the list of their wants are things no government can provide because they want, if the list is correct, changes in attitudes.  That's nice and all, but not going to happen.

It would help if the protesters wanted changes that government can actually manage to do.  If it's more money for education, maybe that would help over time, I don't think the way we fund education is equitable in this country.  Obviously, there are other issues that make educating poorer people a challenge, no matter the color of their skin.

How much of all of this is mostly related to wealth?
In education, it's 100% tied to wealth.
Local tax dollars = funding for local schools.  Rich area - more tax dollars - more school funding.  And that's the simple part.  Now we have the avalanche of B.S. "school choice" is taking public dollars and funneling it to charters and now even private schools (recent ruling in Montana).  
Yes, our public tax dollars are going towards religious private schools now, thanks to republicans in power.  

It's broken.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 07, 2020, 05:08:36 PM
Population density?
Lol, don't bring prudence into this.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 07, 2020, 05:09:01 PM
So, they are against racism in general, and want it to end? 


Don't we all?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 07, 2020, 05:09:32 PM
So fix it for us. How many steps would it take, what are they, and how will they be implemented?
Right.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 07, 2020, 05:12:35 PM
Most prestigious private schools operate on shoestring budgets, out of old public school buildings that had been closed and deemed unsuitable. 

Where there's a will, there's a way. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on July 07, 2020, 05:27:27 PM
WV and Mississippi annually battle it out for poorest state in the country yet both have crime rates that put them anywhere from the top half to top third of the country.
WV and Mississippi are rural with zero population density. Of course they would have lower crime rates in than highly dense urban areas.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on July 07, 2020, 05:28:12 PM
If poverty were the driving force, then Appalachia would be an absolute war zone.
Almost no one lives in Appalachia. It's Butt Fuck Egypt territory. Hard to rob, steal, kill when the surrounding population is zero.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 07, 2020, 05:35:23 PM
In Middle School I went to Wellington which, at least at the time, was the most prestigious Private School in Columbus. 

The Grade School was an old abandoned Upper Arlington Elementary School that had been shuttered for decades. The Middle School was the original Perry Township school building that had been constructed decades before Upper Arlington even existed. The buildings were old. They were gross. They were falling apart. There was no AC. They smelled terrible. The teachers made a LOT less than their public school counterparts. About a fifth of the student body were poor inner city black kids that went there for free because they were good students and nice kids (I had a free ride as well). 

It doesn't cost a lot to run a good school, if the students, the teachers, and the parents are invested in making it so.




Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2020, 06:07:02 PM
Most prestigious private schools operate on shoestring budgets, out of old public school buildings that had been closed and deemed unsuitable.

Where there's a will, there's a way.
I've had several contracts with some of these in recent years, one of which is Benet Academy (Frank Kaminsky's HS!!).

You are correct in your assertion. These are old buildings with old innards. The money to fix them is not there unless someone donates it. Tuition pays the teachers and admin (of which there are few, unlike the public systems).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 07, 2020, 06:46:02 PM
Almost no one lives in Appalachia. It's Butt Fuck Egypt territory. Hard to rob, steal, kill when the surrounding population is zero.
Hey now that's my people
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: EastAthens on July 07, 2020, 07:22:06 PM
Are they offering health care or raising my taxes by
 telling their millions to use the ER?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: EastAthens on July 07, 2020, 07:35:05 PM
This has always been more of a class issue than a skin color issue but good luck selling that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 07, 2020, 07:35:17 PM
Agreeing to disagree seems to be what it is. We're digging into signage and graffiti at this point.

Again, I'm not particularly ride or die for BLM in general. I think certain elements of prisons need to be reformed, same with police. I'd have to dig in on the Nike stuff, though a quick google didn't bring up the word "refused." Granted, I also understand the reasons for not donating to the org, since as I said earlier, I doubt its organization.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/squad-dems-tlaib-pressley-introduce-bill-bill-to-defund-police-give-reparations

As I was saying.......
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 07, 2020, 07:46:22 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/squad-dems-tlaib-pressley-introduce-bill-bill-to-defund-police-give-reparations

As I was saying.......
You were saying?

(This is kind of an interesting point about media actually. Introducing a bill means not much at all. They kind of have to cover it because the alternative is to just ignore political machinations, but it also creates some fluff and hubbub).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 07, 2020, 07:53:38 PM
In Middle School I went to Wellington which, at least at the time, was the most prestigious Private School in Columbus.

The Grade School was an old abandoned Upper Arlington Elementary School that had been shuttered for decades. The Middle School was the original Perry Township school building that had been constructed decades before Upper Arlington even existed. The buildings were old. They were gross. They were falling apart. There was no AC. They smelled terrible. The teachers made a LOT less than their public school counterparts. About a fifth of the student body were poor inner city black kids that went there for free because they were good students and nice kids (I had a free ride as well).

It doesn't cost a lot to run a good school, if the students, the teachers, and the parents are invested in making it so.





I often wonder what the split is there.

I'd assume on-the-ball parents are the biggest factor, with kids being less so. I know there's a lot of talk about slacker teachers, but I'd assume dialed up parents, mostly because they can create dialed up kids or force the kids to dial up are key. Granted, if you're a teacher with dialed up parents (dialed up in the right way, I mean), you sidestep a lot of the BS.

I went to a somewhat well thought of private HS. In the end, a lot of the teachers were hired because they were good teachers, even if they sometimes (too often) had screws loose personally. The place held together moderately well. Admin was often a mess. Kids parents were more often than not on top of their stuff, which meant the kids were generally OK. Interestingly they really didn't like letting kids fail, which meant a few screw ups with money limped along. Some cratered after HS, some got their stuff together. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 07, 2020, 08:27:48 PM
You were saying?

(This is kind of an interesting point about media actually. Introducing a bill means not much at all. They kind of have to cover it because the alternative is to just ignore political machinations, but it also creates some fluff and hubbub).
Keep telling yourself that..   maybe in your mind you it will be true.   

here you have the emerging power of the Democratic Party preparing bills that match what you denied was even real just late night.  Can you just admit when you got it wrong?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 07, 2020, 08:55:31 PM
Almost no one lives in Appalachia. It's Butt Fuck Egypt territory. Hard to rob, steal, kill when the surrounding population is zero.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/40968963

I get the population argument but this also breaks it out into crime by 100k of population. No state in the country has more room for people to spread out than Alaska but it had the worst violent crime rate per 100,000 in the US.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 07, 2020, 08:58:29 PM
Keep telling yourself that..  maybe in your mind you it will be true. 

here you have the emerging power of the Democratic Party preparing bills that match what you denied was even real just late night.  Can you just admit when you got it wrong?
I got it wrong! I admit it! 

Instead of my usual tact of "People's fears of this grand political change are probably overblown" I now agree that this rabble rousing is definitely scary. I am of the most fear. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 07, 2020, 09:05:12 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/40968963

I get the population argument but this also breaks it out into crime by 100k of population. No state in the country has more room for people to spread out than Alaska but it had the worst violent crime rate per 100,000 in the US.
From the link:
Crime tends to be higher in areas where large shares of the population are struggling. In New Mexico, which is one of only two states with a violent crime rate more than double the national average, 19.5% of the population lives below the poverty line

 by far the highest rape rate of any state. Crime can tend to concentrate in areas that lack economic opportunity. In Alaska, 6.6% of the population was out of a job in 2018, the highest annual unemployment rate among states.


Poverty = crime
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 07, 2020, 09:12:30 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/40968963

I get the population argument but this also breaks it out into crime by 100k of population. No state in the country has more room for people to spread out than Alaska but it had the worst violent crime rate per 100,000 in the US.
Have you been to Alaska I was there and after a week I felt like stabbing somebody
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 07, 2020, 09:18:49 PM
I got it wrong! I admit it!

Instead of my usual tact of "People's fears of this grand political change are probably overblown" I now agree that this rabble rousing is definitely scary. I am of the most fear.
Well you either inferred or directly said:

the agenda of the BLM movement was not much beyond racial injustice,

questioned if any elected officials were supportive Of it

suggested that even if this agenda exists, it has little chance to see the light of day.

i just shared a factual ( yes, I challenge you to find one word of it that is not factual, as well as one word which is editorial opinion) news  release that 3 congresswomen considered to be rising stars unveiled legislation which damn near matches word for word of the M4BL published platform...

I would just say that your take, this is much ado about nothing, and inferring in an insulting way that it is like some crazy conspiracy theory, is just dead wrong and easily disproved. 

The article does point out that this is not a bill yet, and if it becomes one it will likely not pass the House.  But acting like this is the end and not the beginning of such a platform, especially post November pending a variety of different election outcomes, is either not credible or maybe deceptive.   

based on your posts I would guesstimate that you would strongly support much of these initiatives, and that’s fine if you do.  But I also get the sense you would rather they slide in under the radar so to speak, which is what the game plan appears to be on a broader scale.

so no, you don’t fear any of this..
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 07, 2020, 09:24:35 PM
I've had several contracts with some of these in recent years, one of which is Benet Academy (Frank Kaminsky's HS!!).

You are correct in your assertion. These are old buildings with old innards. The money to fix them is not there unless someone donates it. Tuition pays the teachers and admin (of which there are few, unlike the public systems).

Exactly. 

Then for HS I went to Dublin. They have big, beautiful, brand new facilities. Ostentatious buildings, with all the bells and whistles. Some of the highest paid teachers in the state. Yet the course load was a breeze. 

I learned more at that Middle School in the hundred year old, dilapidated building deemed unfit for use by the public school system, than I did in HS and the first two years of College combined (save Calculus, of course). It was basically just reviewing what I had already learned in my early teens, with less detail and a LOT less homework. 

It is not the money, but the culture that makes a school great. Parents, students and teachers coming together with a common goal. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 07, 2020, 09:41:26 PM
It's definitely true that public schools have a lot harder time picking the people who attend them
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 07, 2020, 09:58:37 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icnRMW6P9nc&t=363s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icnRMW6P9nc&t=363s)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 07, 2020, 10:20:57 PM
From the link:
Crime tends to be higher in areas where large shares of the population are struggling. In New Mexico, which is one of only two states with a violent crime rate more than double the national average, 19.5% of the population lives below the poverty line

by far the highest rape rate of any state. Crime can tend to concentrate in areas that lack economic opportunity. In Alaska, 6.6% of the population was out of a job in 2018, the highest annual unemployment rate among states.


Poverty = crime
Yeah, you mentioned poverty equals crime before.  Then I mentioned WV and Mississippi being two of the poorest states in the country with crime rates below that of most of the nation.

Then, you and others said, “Yeah, well no one lives there. There’s no one to kill or rob.”  So then I link the study which shows the least populated state in the country with more space between neighbors than anywhere else in the country has the worst violent crime rate per 100k people.

Then you circle back to “Well, they’re poor.”
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 07, 2020, 10:54:25 PM
Keep telling yourself that..  maybe in your mind you it will be true. 

here you have the emerging power of the Democratic Party preparing bills that match what you denied was even real just late night.  Can you just admit when you got it wrong?
"The emerging power"... Yeah... 

Hey, if it was BLM behind this (instead of M4BL) why didn't they call it BLM's proposal? After all, it's kinda at the zenith of BLM's political clout... 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 07, 2020, 10:59:16 PM
Yeah, you mentioned poverty equals crime before.  Then I mentioned WV and Mississippi being two of the poorest states in the country with crime rates below that of most of the nation.

Then, you and others said, “Yeah, well no one lives there. There’s no one to kill or rob.”  So then I link the study which shows the least populated state in the country with more space between neighbors than anywhere else in the country has the worst violent crime rate per 100k people.

Then you circle back to “Well, they’re poor.”


Well yeah, otherwise he'd have to admit that it is the result of a broken culture that routinely glorifies violent crime and having children out of wedlock, while devaluing hard work, self sufficiency and academic success. And that would be wayciss. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 07, 2020, 11:34:09 PM
Well yeah, otherwise he'd have to admit that it is the result of a broken culture that routinely glorifies violent crime and having children out of wedlock, while devaluing hard work, self sufficiency and academic success. And that would be wayciss.
That’s a harsh way to describe Alaskans, but they do need to step up their marriages and self sufficiency.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 07, 2020, 11:39:03 PM
Yeah, you mentioned poverty equals crime before.  Then I mentioned WV and Mississippi being two of the poorest states in the country with crime rates below that of most of the nation.

Then, you and others said, “Yeah, well no one lives there. There’s no one to kill or rob.”  So then I link the study which shows the least populated state in the country with more space between neighbors than anywhere else in the country has the worst violent crime rate per 100k people.

Then you circle back to “Well, they’re poor.”

I don't even know what you're saying anymore.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 07, 2020, 11:46:27 PM
That’s a harsh way to describe Alaskans, but they do need to step up their marriages and self sufficiency.
Right, Alaska is just a war zone. South Central, on steroids.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 08, 2020, 12:01:47 AM
I don't even know what you're saying anymore. 
Sigh. If poverty=crime then what is the explanation for states like WV and Mississippi (you can throw Kentucky in there too) having crime rates well below their poverty rate? 

Don’t bring up population density. New Mexico and Alaska’s high crime rates sort of punch holes in that argument.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 08, 2020, 03:22:23 AM
Sigh. If poverty=crime then what is the explanation for states like WV and Mississippi (you can throw Kentucky in there too) having crime rates well below their poverty rate?

Don’t bring up population density. New Mexico and Alaska’s high crime rates sort of punch holes in that argument.
I'm not sure.  They're all top 5 in teen pregnancy.  Maybe that busies them so that they don't have time or energy to commit crimes?

None of them have huge cities, which I mentioned initially, before you switched it to states.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 08, 2020, 05:58:32 AM
"The emerging power"... Yeah...

Hey, if it was BLM behind this (instead of M4BL) why didn't they call it BLM's proposal? After all, it's kinda at the zenith of BLM's political clout...
That’s the point.  Got to keep those donations, t- shirt sales, hashtags from our celebrities and positive momentum going.  That can’t happen if the real agenda is exposed.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 08, 2020, 06:18:32 AM
Well yeah, otherwise he'd have to admit that it is the result of a broken culture that routinely glorifies violent crime and having children out of wedlock, while devaluing hard work, self sufficiency and academic success. And that would be wayciss.
Throughout the 70's and 80's America made the conscious decision to incarcerate way more people for way longer and a lot of Americans made the conscious decision to make sure those incarcerated people were black.  It led to an explosion in locked up people that dwarfed other countries.  Broken culture, indeed.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 08, 2020, 06:25:33 AM
Throughout the 70's and 80's America made the conscious decision to incarcerate way more people for way longer and a lot of Americans made the conscious decision to make sure those incarcerated people were black.  It led to an explosion in locked up people that dwarfed other countries.  Broken culture, indeed.
True.  But it got worse in the 90s, especyafter a certain crime bill.  But we won’t get into that- it is quite political.  I am just bidin my time until that gets talked about. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 08, 2020, 07:04:40 AM
Heh.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 08, 2020, 07:26:21 AM
True.  But it got worse in the 90s, especyafter a certain crime bill.  But we won’t get into that- it is quite political.  I am just bidin my time until that gets talked about.
The '94 crime bill had a negligible effect on incarceration overall, though it was clearly a product of the tough on crime attitude poular at the time.  As was this..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io9KMSSEZ0Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io9KMSSEZ0Y)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 08, 2020, 07:27:16 AM
It's definitely true that public schools have a lot harder time picking the people who attend them
It's definitely true that inner city schools don't suck because of their budget or facilities.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2020, 07:42:06 AM
A private school generally speaking can kick out a kid who misbehaves consistently.  They don't need to accept students who are mentally challenged.  They don't HAVE to accept any students they don't like.  

Public schools don't have that option, though they can expel students at some point.  That point is pretty far gone, and some students relish being expelled.

In some public schools, just maintaining any sense of decorum is a major effort, forget about teaching anything.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 08, 2020, 07:58:06 AM
Private schools cannot discriminate on any basis.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 08, 2020, 08:00:17 AM
Yep. It is the students and the parents that make inner city schools suck. If they don't change their attitude, all the money and top of the line facilities in the world aren't going to make a particle of difference. It is the laziest solution imaginable. Just throw more money down that drain; wash, rinse, repeat.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 08, 2020, 08:02:58 AM
They are always searching around for someone else to blame for their troubles. Never looking inwardly in order to evaluate what they might be able to do differently in order to improve their lot in life. You won't get anywhere with that attitude.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 08, 2020, 08:04:16 AM
Yep. It is the students and the parents that make inner city schools suck. If they don't change their attitude, all the money and top of the line facilities in the world aren't going to make a particle of difference. It is the laziest solution imaginable. Just throw more money down that drain; wash, rinse, repeat.
I'd also call out many teachers, the school boards and the teacher's unions.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 08, 2020, 08:04:28 AM
They are always searching around for someone else to blame for their troubles. Never looking inwardly in order to evaluate what they might be able to do differently in order to improve their lot in life. You won't get anywhere with that attitude.
That's silly
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 08, 2020, 08:15:50 AM
They are always searching around for someone else to blame for their troubles. Never looking inwardly in order to evaluate what they might be able to do differently in order to improve their lot in life. You won't get anywhere with that attitude.
I don't know. I think this applies to much of our population today. The boomers are aging and the X'rs are holding up the fort.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2020, 08:20:23 AM
I blame the media.  And Badgerfan of course.  And Tu'a.  And Saban.  And Eastern Michigan of course.  And Trump and Biden and Democrats and Republicans and Fauci and Birx and the CDC and Chick-fil-A and Christians and Muslims and atheists and agnostics who can't make up their minds and Facebook of course And Elon and General Motors and Illinois and Slive and the playoff committee and ESPN ....

Give me a minute, I'm out of breath.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 08, 2020, 08:22:40 AM
I blame the media.  And Badgerfan of course.  And Tu'a.  And Saban.  And Eastern Michigan of course.  And Trump and Biden and Democrats and Republicans and Fauci and Birx and the CDC and Chick-fil-A and Christians and Muslims and atheists and agnostics who can't make up their minds and Facebook of course And Elon and General Motors and Illinois and Slive and the playoff committee and ESPN ....

Give me a minute, I'm out of breath.
Don't forget immigrants. They've been the star attraction of getting blame lately
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2020, 08:32:28 AM
Yeah, immigrants especially, like my wife of course, and her kids.  And Muslims, I should include them.  And anyone that doesn't look pretty much like me.

The wife and I remind each other every day how fortunate we are.  It's good thing, as opposed to blaming someone or something for whatever it is we lack.

"They" recently upgraded out internet, for free.  It's not really faster, I haven't tried uploads yet, but the wifi signal is stronger.  The dude said it was 114 somethings per furlong, they had guaranteed at least 100 SPF, which is nice to have when the sun is out.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 08, 2020, 08:47:21 AM
I'm going to form a blue ribbon panel. That'll work.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2020, 09:02:37 AM
It's always good when confronting an intractable problem to form a committee, a panel, a study group, assign it to someone else who will produce a report no one ever reads ....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2020, 09:10:35 AM
I commented before that a Thai restaurant near us claims to have been the first established in Atlanta, 1977.  Imagine that, no Thai food here in a metro area at the time probably 2.5 million in population.

I know some folks discard the term "diversity" as a buzz word, and often it is, but there is an element to it important to me anyway, aside from food.  When I meet people from other cultures I am always fascinated.  I've had some long discussions with our neighbor about Turkey and China and South Africa and all the places he has traveled.

I hired back in the day two chemists from Iran.  I hired one fellow from China, one from South Africa, and one from California believe it or not, but never anyone from Wisconsin.  I used to do on campus interviews at Ohio State.  I've been able to travel a bit, not nearly like our friend of course, and I find it very fulfilling and stimulating.

We get "excited" when we hear about a Korean fried chicken place opening up near by, and the noodle place that just opened, and the two Spanish tapas places near us, etc. etc.  And of course wine from wherever is interesting.

My life as a kid was pretty predictable food for dinner, nearly all white people around the area, I think the first black kid in our high school showed up in 10th grade or so.  We didn't have Catholics and very very few anything elses.  Looking back it was rather boring.

That HS now is mostly black kids, they are a football powerhouse.  The area has changed quite a bit of course, and near there is the area with a ton of Mexican and Asian restaurants that line Buford Highway.

When I go to the park, I see all kinds of people, nobody seems to care about it.  It would be great if we could all just get along.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 08, 2020, 10:09:19 AM
When I go to the park, I see all kinds of people, nobody seems to care about it.  It would be great if we could all just get along.
The truth is that there's only one kind of people, no matter what color their skin is, what religion they call their own, who they prefer to get freaky with, etc.

The problem is that the name for every kind of people is: assholes. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2020, 10:15:51 AM
I find, generally, that MOST people are pretty nice folks.  I often wave at folks as I'm jogging.  There often are trainers out there holding classes, or doing one on ones with younger folks.  There was a small self defense class going on the other day, about 7 young women and a very athletic looking black male teaching.

Fairly often one of the trainers will say something positive to me, like "Keep it up, doing good."

I chatted for a while several times with one fellow whose daughter is out running and he's sitting keeping time.  I see a lot of young mothers out with young children playing in the sand or running around.  

Of course, I tend to have a positive outlook on things.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 08, 2020, 10:26:58 AM
In education, it's 100% tied to wealth.
Local tax dollars = funding for local schools.  Rich area - more tax dollars - more school funding.  And that's the simple part.  Now we have the avalanche of B.S. "school choice" is taking public dollars and funneling it to charters and now even private schools (recent ruling in Montana). 
Yes, our public tax dollars are going towards religious private schools now, thanks to republicans in power. 

It's broken.
Generally speaking, private schools have a much higher success rate of educating kids than do public schools. While there are a number of factors that contribute to that, it should not be dismissed out of hand simply because you disagree with the political position of the politicians that passed such legislation. 

If my kids were subjected to a failing school where half of the kids didn't want to be there, where there was a drug problem and violence, I would take every opportunity I could to get my kids out of there and into a private school where generally speaking, the kids WANT to be there. And due to how my wife and I have handled our finances over the years, we could afford to do so. 

However, many inner city kids that are being raised in a single parent home, don't have that option yet their families are still paying taxes that support the local public school. What is the harm in allowing those families the same opportunities as those of us in different living conditions? Are they any less deserving of a good education? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 08, 2020, 10:27:57 AM
I find, generally, that MOST people are pretty nice folks.  I often wave at folks as I'm jogging.  There often are trainers out there holding classes, or doing one on ones with younger folks.  There was a small self defense class going on the other day, about 7 young women and a very athletic looking black male teaching.

Fairly often one of the trainers will say something positive to me, like "Keep it up, doing good."

I chatted for a while several times with one fellow whose daughter is out running and he's sitting keeping time.  I see a lot of young mothers out with young children playing in the sand or running around. 

Of course, I tend to have a positive outlook on things.
There are a lot of shitty people with excellent manners, bless their hearts

As they say in your neck of the woods...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 08, 2020, 10:28:30 AM
Almost no one lives in Appalachia. It's Butt Fuck Egypt territory. Hard to rob, steal, kill when the surrounding population is zero.
You really need to get out more as your generalization of the people of Appalachia is far from accurate. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2020, 10:33:38 AM
In general, generalizations are often not accurate, broadly speaking.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 08, 2020, 10:46:06 AM
A private school generally speaking can kick out a kid who misbehaves consistently.  They don't need to accept students who are mentally challenged.  They don't HAVE to accept any students they don't like. 

Public schools don't have that option, though they can expel students at some point.  That point is pretty far gone, and some students relish being expelled.

In some public schools, just maintaining any sense of decorum is a major effort, forget about teaching anything.


Yes they do. While I was in HS, 2 kids were kicked out of the school and had to go to school in other districts. 

The difference between public and private is that generally the kids in a private school either want to be there or have parents that are caring enough to do what it takes to ensure that their child has a good education. That generally means that the parent will take an active role in their child's education and work WITH the school instead of against it to see that their child is properly educated.

I was on our local school board for a number of years and I can attest to the fact that some parents would make excuses for their kids and never accept responsibility for making them behave and NOT be disruptive while in school. I had a parent who was a friend of mine, confront me about his kid getting suspended for his behavior at a school dance. The kid was told a number of times to quit what he was doing and was finally kicked out of the dance and then suspended that following Monday. I spoke with the principal and 2 sheriff deputies that were present at the dance to confirm what all happened. And he still wanted to defend his kid instead of holding him accountable for his actions.

I know this is simply anecdotal, but it is a lot of the problem in schools today. Parents see school as nothing but a babysitter and want to second guess everything that the teachers or admin does. If parents took an active roll in their kids education, a lot of problems could be solved. But because they don't, the ones that do care about their kids education, need an opportunity to take their kids to a school that is attended by kids with like minded parents. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 08, 2020, 10:49:03 AM
There are a lot of shitty people with excellent manners, bless their hearts.

As they say in your neck of the woods...
I think you are being very pessimistic here. There are far more good people than bad. Like 95 percent good.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 08, 2020, 11:45:40 AM
so, what can be done to encourage better parents and families

seems many of our issues today stem from unfortunate environments for children

how do we encourage and create better parents?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 08, 2020, 11:48:25 AM
Well you either inferred or directly said:

the agenda of the BLM movement was not much beyond racial injustice,

questioned if any elected officials were supportive Of it

suggested that even if this agenda exists, it has little chance to see the light of day.

i just shared a factual ( yes, I challenge you to find one word of it that is not factual, as well as one word which is editorial opinion) news  release that 3 congresswomen considered to be rising stars unveiled legislation which damn near matches word for word of the M4BL published platform...

I would just say that your take, this is much ado about nothing, and inferring in an insulting way that it is like some crazy conspiracy theory, is just dead wrong and easily disproved.

The article does point out that this is not a bill yet, and if it becomes one it will likely not pass the House.  But acting like this is the end and not the beginning of such a platform, especially post November pending a variety of different election outcomes, is either not credible or maybe deceptive. 

based on your posts I would guesstimate that you would strongly support much of these initiatives, and that’s fine if you do.  But I also get the sense you would rather they slide in under the radar so to speak, which is what the game plan appears to be on a broader scale.

so no, you don’t fear any of this..

I honestly don't really want to get too deep in this, because in the end, you are going to be more concerned about this than I am. But I just keep getting pulled in. 

You're right. I overstated the focus of the coalition of groups BLM, and the part of BLM that has a website, is involved with (understated the breadth of its focus). I still doing think it's particularly well organized. 

I didn't question if any elected officials supported it. I disagreed with you that it was gaining to the power to rival the two primary parties. 

Factual challenge on the, I think, Fox News article: Headline: 'Squad' Dems Tlaib, Pressley introduce bill to defund police, give reparations."

Body: "The legislation has not been introduced."

You also wrote three congresswomen, but the article says two. 

To answer your much ado part, I suppose I'm just tired. There's so much to freak out about in the world. I'm worn down by all of it. And if the great worry is "The left is going to get its stuff together and push through pie in the sky stuff" I don't believe it'll happen. I'm just skeptical that way. 

I don't support a lot of what's in that proposal. I'm neutral on chunks of it. I assume 98 percent of it will never push through. I'm guessing you might agree with even a piece or two. 

Anyway, I find it weird that I'm calling for it to "slide in under the radar so to speak." The chunks of it are in a big presentation online. The loudest and most influential voice in media turned it into clicks with ease. Maybe I'm a sleeper cell so sleepy, I don't even know I'm doing it. 

Anyway, I wish we had enough sports to not be discussion this. Hopefully soon.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 08, 2020, 11:49:45 AM
The truth is that there's only one kind of people, no matter what color their skin is, what religion they call their own, who they prefer to get freaky with, etc.

The problem is that the name for every kind of people is: assholes.
😂😂😂
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 08, 2020, 11:53:07 AM

The difference between public and private is that generally the kids in a private school either want to be there or have parents that are caring enough to do what it takes to ensure that their child has a good education. That generally means that the parent will take an active role in their child's education and work WITH the school instead of against it to see that their child is properly educated.
I think some of the interplays are fascinating. Child-teacher, child-parent, teacher-parent. It seems like you can get away with one in sync, and if two are in sync, the third can come together. 

Obviously, hopping mad excuse-making parents aren't super productive. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 08, 2020, 11:58:25 AM
I honestly don't really want to get too deep in this, because in the end, you are going to be more concerned about this than I am. But I just keep getting pulled in.

You're right. I overstated the focus of the coalition of groups BLM, and the part of BLM that has a website, is involved with (understated the breadth of its focus). I still doing think it's particularly well organized.

I didn't question if any elected officials supported it. I disagreed with you that it was gaining to the power to rival the two primary parties.

Factual challenge on the, I think, Fox News article: Headline: 'Squad' Dems Tlaib, Pressley introduce bill to defund police, give reparations."

Body: "The legislation has not been introduced."

You also wrote three congresswomen, but the article says two.

To answer your much ado part, I suppose I'm just tired. There's so much to freak out about in the world. I'm worn down by all of it. And if the great worry is "The left is going to get its stuff together and push through pie in the sky stuff" I don't believe it'll happen. I'm just skeptical that way.

I don't support a lot of what's in that proposal. I'm neutral on chunks of it. I assume 98 percent of it will never push through. I'm guessing you might agree with even a piece or two.

Anyway, I find it weird that I'm calling for it to "slide in under the radar so to speak." The chunks of it are in a big presentation online. The loudest and most influential voice in media turned it into clicks with ease. Maybe I'm a sleeper cell so sleepy, I don't even know I'm doing it.

Anyway, I wish we had enough sports to not be discussion this. Hopefully soon.

Good post. 

I am worn down by it as well. I actually think some of the ideas that are considered pretty radical by many are worth discussing. I suppose the one thing that does wrangle me a little bit is when I detect false pretenses-in other words coming in with one narrative but having a hidden agenda behind it.  My modus operandi has always been to put the cards on the table and not waste time. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 08, 2020, 12:01:22 PM
so, what can be done to encourage better parents and families

seems many of our issues today stem from unfortunate environments for children

how do we encourage and create better parents?
Fundamental change. Throw out the failed policies of the past 90 years (starting with the "New Deal") and move forward.

There has to be three things: Trust, promise, and opportunity. Those things don't come with just handing out free stuff (like phones, snap cards, etc.). Those three things lead to hope, in a positive way.

Those things come from businesses investing in blighted neighborhoods in the form of new stores, opening manufacturing facilities to provide good jobs, new infrastructure and education reform. The latter is the most important. Big city education is horrible, unless you are allowed to go to a magnet school (or whatever the elite schools are referred to elsewhere). Big business could easily fund STEM programs, as well as fund tuition (earned through good grades, etc.) at community colleges.

Will it take time? It most certainly will. I guarantee it won't take 90 years. More like 20.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 08, 2020, 12:12:25 PM
Generally speaking, private schools have a much higher success rate of educating kids than do public schools. While there are a number of factors that contribute to that, it should not be dismissed out of hand simply because you disagree with the political position of the politicians that passed such legislation.

If my kids were subjected to a failing school where half of the kids didn't want to be there, where there was a drug problem and violence, I would take every opportunity I could to get my kids out of there and into a private school where generally speaking, the kids WANT to be there. And due to how my wife and I have handled our finances over the years, we could afford to do so.  

However, many inner city kids that are being raised in a single parent home, don't have that option yet their families are still paying taxes that support the local public school. What is the harm in allowing those families the same opportunities as those of us in different living conditions? Are they any less deserving of a good education?
I'm not against private schools or choosing to enroll your kid in a private school, but private schools' finances should be a bubble and have zero overlap with public funding.  

On your last paragraph, that's a plan for bad schools to get worse.  If everyone who wants better for their kid leaves, THAT is the harm:  that existing local school freefalls.  That handful of families who care staying and helping is the only way that school improves.  That group growing and helping is the way out of failure.  What's the harm?  It's total harm.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 08, 2020, 12:16:08 PM
so, what can be done to encourage better parents and families

seems many of our issues today stem from unfortunate environments for children

how do we encourage and create better parents?
Good parents had good childhoods.  Any discussion about this needs to focus on today's kids being supported/guided into becoming well-rounded adults, who then parent capably.  There is no one-step fix for current parents - they are who they are, by and large.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 08, 2020, 12:28:41 PM
I'm not against private schools or choosing to enroll your kid in a private school, but private schools' finances should be a bubble and have zero overlap with public funding. 

On your last paragraph, that's a plan for bad schools to get worse.  If everyone who wants better for their kid leaves, THAT is the harm:  that existing local school freefalls.  That handful of families who care staying and helping is the only way that school improves.  That group growing and helping is the way out of failure.  What's the harm?  It's total harm.
Just so. It's not a huge secret as to why the schools suck. White people fled so their kids wouldn't be in school with black kids. It's been a 75 year race to the bottom.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 08, 2020, 12:29:22 PM
I think you are being very pessimistic here. There are far more good people than bad. Like 95 percent good.
I'm not saying that most people aren't good people... To their kind. However they define "their kind", be it race, religion, political party, etc. Most aren't actively hostile to those outside "their kind", they just don't particularly care--and assume that anything bad happens to those people is probably deserved for some reason or another. We assume that if they're not actively hostile, they are still good people. 

This is humanity. We're tribal. It's "in-group" and everybody else. 

Very few people are capable of truly adopting the belief that "in-group" is 7B+ people. I'd say <5% of them can do so. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 08, 2020, 12:39:02 PM
And yes, I'm pessimistic. Very much so. 

I "came of age" as an adult in a very hopeful time--when technology made instant worldwide communication possible. It broke the barriers of the "mainstream media" controlling the narrative. It gave a voice to people who labored in obscurity previously, and democratized information. 

I thought that it would allow people to break down barriers. Instead people used the fracturing of the narrative to build nice safe cocoons around themselves that they filled with confirmation bias and never again would be challenged by anything that would make them uncomfortable--thus ensuring that they couldn't DARE be bothered with personal growth. 

It was then that I turned from an optimist to a pessimist. It was then that I realized that humanity's insular tribal stupidity wasn't a lack of knowledge or opportunity--it was a lack of desire to be anything else. 

So I'll keep yelling into the abyss, because I'm a stubborn jackass. But I've lost all optimism that any of it will make a difference, ever. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 08, 2020, 12:45:07 PM
You should try volunteering/helping the community. 

It was then that I went from a pessimist to an optimist.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2020, 01:02:13 PM
I find it helps to chat with strangers at times, also, which we do fairly often.  We dine outdoors now exclusively if we go out, and that seems to help.

I was briefly chatting with a dude today because he had on a USMC hat.  Turns out he was just wearing it, but he thanked me for my service before I could correct the impression.  I had showed him my ring which has the EGA on it.  

I often complement folks on their dogs, which can open a brief convo.  Everybody here just about has a dog.  One couple had a very large dog that was clearly a puppy of some kind, they said it would hit 120 pounds.  I know the building in which they live, 2 BDR apts.

Beautiful dog, black, white, and light brown ....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 08, 2020, 01:16:36 PM
That could be a poll - should you wear military hats/clothes if you didn't serve.  You could just be showing your support, right?  But yet, I imagine we all assume a dude wearing a USMC hat probably served.  It's interesting.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2020, 01:32:00 PM
I suspect most folks wearing a USMC hat served in the Corps.  Most, like 75% or so, I'd guess.

Some are supportive parents of course.

Folks wearing camo pants?  Not so much.

Marines are not supposed to wear their uniform off duty, while traveling, shopping, etc.  That is why you will see guys/gals at the airport in camo from the Army but not the Marines, or Navy either.  I don't know if the Army requires it or not.

Marines are allowed a brief stop for gas etc. if they are headed to the base in uniform, and at ceremonial events, while recruiting,  etc.

You can of course often spot an active duty Marine walking around in street clothes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 08, 2020, 01:35:51 PM
I'm not against private schools or choosing to enroll your kid in a private school, but private schools' finances should be a bubble and have zero overlap with public funding. 

On your last paragraph, that's a plan for bad schools to get worse.  If everyone who wants better for their kid leaves, THAT is the harm:  that existing local school freefalls.  That handful of families who care staying and helping is the only way that school improves.  That group growing and helping is the way out of failure.  What's the harm?  It's total harm.
So when is it going to get better? Unless the public school can get rid of the bad actors (i.e. kids that are persistent problems and have no interest in learning), they are going to continue to bring down everyone else. And as a parent, I don't want MY kids having to suffer in the hope that someday, things will be better. My kids only get one chance and I don't want it ruined by a system that caves to the lowest common denominator. I'm sure that there are other parents that feel the same way. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 08, 2020, 01:37:19 PM
Stanford cutting 11 sports
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 08, 2020, 01:38:20 PM
Woah. That's huge.

Which ones??
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 08, 2020, 01:42:01 PM
https://twitter.com/ByPatForde/status/1280912136571682817?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on July 08, 2020, 02:14:37 PM
a lot of Olympic sports...  They still will have a more programs than places like Clemson or UNL, but it's sad to see another cut into the already limited olympic sports opportunity.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on July 08, 2020, 02:37:01 PM
Yeah, I had an acquaintance in high school who went to Stanford for synchronized swimming.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 08, 2020, 02:58:25 PM
That could be a poll - should you wear military hats/clothes if you didn't serve.  You could just be showing your support, right?  But yet, I imagine we all assume a dude wearing a USMC hat probably served.  It's interesting. 
I get mistaken for military/police all the time and it’s always kind of awkward explaining I’m not. I wear my hair in a military high and tight and I’m thick through my arms, chest, and shoulders.   But the worst time was when I was wearing a USAF polo and an elderly gentlemen wearing a WWII hat approached me and said, “Now there is a serviceman if I ever saw one.”  I almost felt like I owed him an apology and, in fact, did apologize.  I‘m now hesitant to wear that shirt out.  I don’t want people to ever think I’m trying to trick them into believing something about me, especially the military aspect of it. Veterans get very testy about stolen valor.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 08, 2020, 03:34:09 PM
So when is it going to get better? Unless the public school can get rid of the bad actors (i.e. kids that are persistent problems and have no interest in learning), they are going to continue to bring down everyone else. And as a parent, I don't want MY kids having to suffer in the hope that someday, things will be better. My kids only get one chance and I don't want it ruined by a system that caves to the lowest common denominator. I'm sure that there are other parents that feel the same way.
With this line of thinking, it will never improve.  Not judging or saying this mindset is wrong or rare, because it's not, but it GUARANTEES it will never improve.

If we make a football analogy, your kid is a RB playing for Rutgers.  His yards per carry suffer because of the awful o-line blocking for him.  And so you want him to transfer to Michigan State because he's  your kid and you want the best blocking he can get while being good enough to receive a bulk of the carries.  
Nothing wrong with that, happens all the time.  But when another and another, then another player does that, how is Rutgers ever going to compete?  

They can't.  They go from having some talent (students/families invested in education) and some hope (gradually rising test scores/students getting into better and better universities) to no talent (no one caring about school) and no hope (declining progress, things getting worse).

Someone has to be the 1990 Badgers (1-10 under 1st year HC Alvarez).  Someones kids have to be 2008 Baylor for those payoff seasons to happen.  There's no other way.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 08, 2020, 03:42:37 PM
With this line of thinking, it will never improve.  Not judging or saying this mindset is wrong or rare, because it's not, but it GUARANTEES it will never improve.

If we make a football analogy, your kid is a RB playing for Rutgers.  His yards per carry suffer because of the awful o-line blocking for him.  And so you want him to transfer to Michigan State because he's  your kid and you want the best blocking he can get while being good enough to receive a bulk of the carries. 
Nothing wrong with that, happens all the time.  But when another and another, then another player does that, how is Rutgers ever going to compete? 

They can't.  They go from having some talent (students/families invested in education) and some hope (gradually rising test scores/students getting into better and better universities) to no talent (no one caring about school) and no hope (declining progress, things getting worse).

Someone has to be the 1990 Badgers (1-10 under 1st year HC Alvarez).  Someones kids have to be 2008 Baylor for those payoff seasons to happen.  There's no other way. 
Until parents of these kids take some responsibility for them, things will not change. And I and many other parents are not going to sacrifice our kids in the hope that it gets better someday. Personally, there should be a school for the delinquent kids that teaches them the very basics and gets them out of the local public school. Maybe if we did those types of things, the local public schools could improve. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2020, 03:46:10 PM
The threat when I was in school was that we'd be sent to "reform school" if we acted up.  I never knew what it was really, but it sounded bad.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 08, 2020, 03:59:48 PM
Is boarding school still a thing? 

Anyone know if, monthly, it's more or less expensive than child support? 

If I could send my kids off to boarding school for 9 months out of the year, *and* stop paying the ex, that's win-win right? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2020, 04:20:00 PM
There are military boarding schools dotted around.  My son wanted to attend one for some reason his senior year.  Nyet.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on July 08, 2020, 04:22:41 PM
The northeast has a lot of boarding schools. It's definitely a thing up there. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 08, 2020, 05:04:48 PM
Awesome. Stanford is the only school that periodically prevents OSU from winning a NC in synchronized swimming.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 08, 2020, 05:52:45 PM
The threat when I was in school was that we'd be sent to "reform school" if we acted up.  I never knew what it was really, but it sounded bad.
One of the quotes from Gator i remember - Most of these kids belong in reform school and not a University Campus
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 08, 2020, 05:55:21 PM

If I could send my kids off to boarding school for 9 months out of the year, *and* stop paying the ex, that's win-win right?
How about sending the EX to boarding school,have her moonlight for work and send the kids the difference
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 08, 2020, 05:55:48 PM
Yeah, my P's always threatened the military school thing. The one in Wisconsin - Northwestern, I think. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 08, 2020, 06:02:41 PM
Fundamental change. Throw out the failed policies of the past 90 years (starting with the "New Deal") and move forward.
I'm not sure the new deal was failed/bad at the time.There were no Gov't safety nets in place at the time save some soup lines.No welfare,unemployment just the The WPA; renamed in 1939 as the Work Projects Administration was an employing millions of job-seekers to carry out public works projects, including the construction of public buildings and roads.Had to kick start the economy somehow
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 08, 2020, 06:06:56 PM
How about sending the EX to boarding school,have her moonlight for work and send the kids the difference
It's about the nicest place I'd want to send her. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 08, 2020, 06:09:00 PM
Have you ever had one of those days where you can't figure out whether you just don't feel like eating, or you feel like eating really unhealthily, but you know it'll be nothing in between? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 08, 2020, 06:09:16 PM
It's about the nicest place I'd want to send her.
If you ever get those imperial powers can my brother's ex ride shotgun?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 08, 2020, 06:11:04 PM
Have you ever had one of those days where you can't figure out whether you just don't feel like eating, or you feel like eating really unhealthily, but you know it'll be nothing in between?
A nice Marzen will fill the bill didn't they tide over clergy during lent?Drunk Monk/Paulaner friars
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 08, 2020, 06:26:22 PM
I'm not sure the new deal was failed/bad at the time.There were no Gov't safety nets in place at the time save some soup lines.No welfare,unemployment just the The WPA; renamed in 1939 as the Work Projects Administration was an employing millions of job-seekers to carry out public works projects, including the construction of public buildings and roads.Had to kick start the economy somehow
Right, but it also came with a bunch of social progrums. The ones that are still failing today.

We cannot rely on government to fix today's problems. They will only make things worse. Todays problems need to be solved in the communities, by the people, for the people. I've seen it first hand. It works.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 08, 2020, 06:30:57 PM
Have you ever had one of those days where you can't figure out whether you just don't feel like eating, or you feel like eating really unhealthily, but you know it'll be nothing in between?
Yes!   Heat can do that to me. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 08, 2020, 06:44:42 PM
Right, but it also came with a bunch of social progrums. The ones that are still failing today.

We cannot rely on government to fix today's problems. They will only make things worse. Todays problems need to be solved in the communities, by the people, for the people. I've seen it first hand. It works.
Not sure about that. Social Security and collective bargaining have hardly been failures.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 08, 2020, 07:02:40 PM
Right, but it also came with a bunch of social progrums. The ones that are still failing today.

We cannot rely on government to fix today's problems. They will only make things worse. Todays problems need to be solved in the communities, by the people, for the people. I've seen it first hand. It works.
You see, that's the problem with Keynesianism.

Keynesianism says that when you hit an economic slowdown, the government should spend extra to smooth it. Then, when you have an economic boom period, the government should pull back spending and build up capital for the next slowdown.

The disciples of Keynesianism, on the other hand, use economic slowdowns as excuses to spend because Keynes said to prop up aggregate demand, and then when times are good (and tax receipts high) they spend even more because they have all that money burning a hole in their pocket. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 08, 2020, 11:25:37 PM
I was working up in Salt Lake this week, and that area has gotten huge. It is nestled between two mountain ranges, so it doesn't extend all that far east/west wise. But north and south it is just nonstop city from Provo to Brigham City, which is about 120 miles along the I-15 corridor. It's insane really. If you lived in SLC proper, it would take you forever to get out of town either direction. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 08, 2020, 11:57:01 PM
Not sure about that. Social Security and collective bargaining have hardly been failures.
SS is a major failure for those who would rather not have government "manage" their money (redistribute their income).


It's a tax. Call it what it is.


Income tax was a temporary measure. LMAO.


Give an inch. Take 12. Repeat.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2020, 12:13:02 AM
I'm an employer, as most of you know. 20 years in.

My payroll averages about $1.5M over those 20 years. 

I've paid $2M into the "system" in that time period, as the employer contribution. Think about that. 

$2 f'ing MILLION dollars. Out of MY pocket.

And I'm the bad guy?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2020, 12:20:46 AM
One of my saddest days was when I went to the local SS office with my Ma, after my Dad passed.

(He (Big Jim) passed on that day that the USU kicker missed a field goal, allowing UW to win the game - some of you might recall.)


Anyhow, I went with my Ma, and it turned out she had to choose between taking his SS "benefits" or taking hers.


She chose his, as it was a little more. She asked the fat lady behind the counter "What will happen to MY money?"


The fat lady said "It goes poof, into the system." And the fat lady laughed. 

That same fat lady will get my Ma's money someday.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2020, 12:23:20 AM
Collective bargaining is also a major failure. Public employee unions will bring this country down, as they are some of the most radical and violent groups in this country.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2020, 12:24:35 AM
I'm on a roll. Just got back from a "public meeting" with a client.

Government sucks ass.


Nighty night.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 09, 2020, 06:37:47 AM
Collective bargaining is also a major failure. Public employee unions will bring this country down, as they are some of the most radical and violent groups in this country.
I dunno man.  My parents were in a public employee union as teachers as the local college.  The college board were well connected friends of the governor who mostly made decisions to hire other people they knew to run the college and reduce teacher positions to make up the difference.  The only way to combat that was through the union, which they did.  You could say, a private college would function better! Perhaps that would right, though more likely is the college wouldn't exist at all in private form.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 09, 2020, 06:41:46 AM
yes there are way too many Chiefs and not enough Indians.What members of the local school district are making is henious.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 09, 2020, 07:08:15 AM
I dunno man.  My parents were in a public employee union as teachers as the local college.  The college board were well connected friends of the governor who mostly made decisions to hire other people they knew to run the college and reduce teacher positions to make up the difference.  The only way to combat that was through the union, which they did.  You could say, a private college would function better! Perhaps that would right, though more likely is the college wouldn't exist at all in private form.
As someone that was elected to the local school board, I have a different take. It was almost impossible to get rid of a bad teacher. You almost had to have them commit a crime before you could get rid of them. The union would protect them no matter how bad a teacher they were. 

My feelings on the matter are that these people are supposed to be professionals. They should be able to stand on their own qualifications, yet they need an external body to speak for them. I found it abhorrent. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2020, 07:23:39 AM
When my first kid was starting high school, the teachers went on strike.  They were marching outside the HS and I was worried the school year might not start on time.  I happened to know the head of the school board and he told me "Don't worry, this is a game, everyone understands the game."  And everything did get resolved on time.  That union seemed to be more about collective bargaining, money, than anything, a group with which the school board could negotiate.

It never happened again, I'm not sure why, I was expecting it to be a routine when contracts came up.  Maybe they just caved.  

I asked them after their first year at OSU if they felt well prepared and both said "Oh yeah, no problem.".  

I was not well prepared for college myself, IMHO.  That was my aim for them.

I think the unions for public workers can get onerous, some here have noted the police unions tend to keep bad policemen on the job.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 09, 2020, 07:25:20 AM
As someone that was elected to the local school board, I have a different take. It was almost impossible to get rid of a bad teacher. You almost had to have them commit a crime before you could get rid of them. The union would protect them no matter how bad a teacher they were.

My feelings on the matter are that these people are supposed to be professionals. They should be able to stand on their own qualifications, yet they need an external body to speak for them. I found it abhorrent.


I suppose, though it ain't like it's easy to fire the school board either if they are a bunch of screwups.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2020, 07:39:06 AM
The public in theory has control over a school board.  

A public union obviously can be corrupt and counterproductive, and the public has no control over that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 09, 2020, 07:42:05 AM
The public in theory has control over a school board. 

A public union obviously can be corrupt and counterproductive, and the public has no control over that.
In theory, sure.  The school board has control over firing the teachers, in theory.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2020, 07:54:00 AM
With contracts, it can become practicably impossible to fire someone.  

It was that way where I worked (unless you were a white male of course).  I went through the process of trying to fire a completely inept and useless worker (he was a white male) and it was an almost full time effort.  I had 8 other people to manage at the time, and it was exhausting, and the Company "resources" were no help either.

This guy was a danger in the lab, I had to tell him to sit in his office and do nothing.  Someone else had hired him and he got dumped on me.  We didn't have a union, but we had a worse than useless group of idiots running HR.  We'd get wildly differing instructions from them week after week.

None of that was union related, but I can easily see how a union contract can obstruct firing worthless workers.  Management just loses interest and says "Well, just put Bob in an office doing nothing."  It's demoralizing to everyone else aware of the situation.

I had to deal with a fellow in another group, and he was never around.  I kept asking where he was, he had results I needed, and his coworkers would laugh at me.  Nobody would say anything because he was black.  I went to his boss and got the run around.  I finally managed to get the data I needed and moved on.  It turned out, I learned much later, this guy, a PhD chemist, was flipping houses and never came to work.  He realized they couldn't/wouldn't fire him, so he snagged a nice salary and flipped houses.

He NEVER came to work, not even an hour a week.  The rest of the chemists in that group knew not to say anything about it.  This went on for two years, and then he finally left, the reasons were not revealed.  He was untouchable.  This sort of thing was uncommon, but not unprecedented.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2020, 08:06:20 AM
As for public unions, it's not as if "we" can do much of anything about them.  They exist, they will continue to exist, so it's a fact of life kind of thing.

I can imagine quite a few public workers basically do little or nothing workwise.  I can see how a mayor can park cronies and cousins in highly paid positions for which they are not remotely qualified.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 09, 2020, 08:12:59 AM
As for public unions, it's not as if "we" can do much of anything about them.  They exist, they will continue to exist, so it's a fact of life kind of thing.

I can imagine quite a few public workers basically do little or nothing workwise.  I can see how a mayor can park cronies and cousins in highly paid positions for which they are not remotely qualified.
It's no secret it's good to be connected. The highest education officer in the land is Betsy Devos, who has scant qualifications outside of being extremely wealthy and well connected. It's the way of the world.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2020, 08:41:34 AM
I don't expect Cabinet heads to be "qualified", I'm surprised when they are.  Even if they have background, it's irrelevant in my view.  They are politicians and managers.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2020, 09:01:30 AM
I suppose, though it ain't like it's easy to fire the school board either if they are a bunch of screwups.
Depends on whether they are elected, or appointed (like in Chicago).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2020, 09:06:39 AM
It's no secret it's good to be connected. The highest education officer in the land is Betsy Devos, who has scant qualifications outside of being extremely wealthy and well connected. It's the way of the world.
She's been involved in educational foundations and committees for a long time. Union stooges don't like her much, because she advocates for school choice.

I'm of the opinion that there doesn't need to be a US Department of Education. There is enough bloat in education as it is.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2020, 09:11:31 AM
Back to Illinois, and that public sector union thing. (from Illinois Policy)

****************************************

Putting things on “automatic” just makes life so much easier in Illinois, at least for the state’s leaders.

No need to make politically unpopular decisions, because that state gasoline tax (https://www.illinoispolicy.org/illinois-gas-tax-set-for-automatic-increase-july-1/) automatically goes up on July 1. Same for lawmakers giving themselves $1,800 (https://www.illinoispolicy.org/why-illinois-state-lawmakers-are-still-in-line-for-an-1800-pay-raise/) raises while being able to claim: “We didn’t vote for those. They were automatic.”

And so it is for Gov. J.B. Pritzker. He doesn’t need any courage to face the state’s biggest government worker union and speak the truth about COVID-19 shutdowns blowing a $6 billion (https://www.illinoispolicy.org/5-reasons-why-illinois-latest-spending-plan-insults-taxpayers/) hole in the state’s revenues. On July 1 there will be $261 million (https://www.illinoispolicy.org/despite-economic-crisis-pritzker-wont-consider-postponing-261-million-in-state-raises/) in raises going to members of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees Council 31, automatically.

Nearly 1 in 4 (https://www.illinoispolicy.org/nearly-1-5m-illinois-workers-risk-layoffs-or-reduced-hours-from-covid-19-economic-fallout/) Illinoisans is out of a job. Many (https://www.illinoispolicy.org/story/ernie-sandoval/) are still fighting the state’s Rube Goldberg machine of an unemployment (https://www.illinoispolicy.org/illinois-unemployment-data-breach-leads-to-id-theft-class-action-lawsuit-claims/) system to get the federal money they were promised.

So how fair is it that some of the highest-paid state employees in the nation are getting a raise that must be funded by an economically wounded bunch of taxpayers?

Pritzker dismissed the idea of delaying the state worker raises: “That’s not something that we’re currently having discussions about,” he said in late April.

But other governors, and specifically other Democratic governors, have taken action to preserve scarce cash as they deal with extra costs and crumbling tax bases thanks to the pandemic.

Washington Gov. Jay Inslee is canceling a 3% pay hike (https://www.seattlepi.com/local/politics/article/Inslee-Draconian-cuts-in-Washington-state-15347839.php) for some state employees and forcing one-day-a-week furloughs on 40,000 others to handle a nearly $9 billion shortfall.

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo delayed raises (https://www.news10.com/news/ny-capitol-news/state-workers-pay-raises-deferred-for-90-days/) for 80,000 state workers for 90 days, and is now considering employee buyouts (https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Buyouts-and-early-retirement-stir-buzz-in-New-15356994.php). Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam (https://www.wsls.com/news/local/2020/04/07/gov-northam-to-postpone-action-on-teacher-raises-tuition-freeze/) pushed back state worker raises, and Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Wolf (https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/spl/pennsylvania-pa-coronavirus-state-employees-paycheck-freeze-layoffs-tom-wolf-20200403.html) stopped paying 9,000 state workers on April 11.

Yet Illinois won’t even talk about public workers sharing some of the public’s pain. Instead, unemployed Illinoisans get put on hold (https://www.illinoispolicy.org/story/ernie-sandoval/) for hours by the state and then cut off by a recorded message.

The Illinois Department of Employment Security has been an embarrassment throughout the COVID-19 shutdown. After weeks of excuses, Pritzker cobbled together fixes that included a $22 million (https://www.wbez.org/stories/illinois-is-spending-millions-to-fix-and-expand-a-troubled-unemployment-benefits-system/db40578c-d207-43d3-97c3-78b6f3367d80), no-bid contract that took almost two months just to get federal money provided in late March into the hands of self-employed workers. The new system promptly exposed Social Security numbers of 32,483 (https://www.illinoispolicy.org/state-agency-published-private-data-of-nearly-32500-unemployed-illinoisans/) applicants, and led to identity theft (https://www.illinoispolicy.org/illinois-unemployment-data-breach-leads-to-id-theft-class-action-lawsuit-claims/) according to a federal lawsuit in St. Clair County.

Meanwhile, millions of dollars in state worker pay raises flow like water.

Illinois was a financial pit before COVID-19, driven mainly by overly generous public employee salaries and public pension spending handed out by the public servants whose campaigns (https://www.thecentersquare.com/illinois/op-ed-how-illinois-unions-re-gifted-member-dues-to-madigan-for-sexual-harassment-settlement/article_71b630e0-2281-11ea-a626-a3d7ae8846cf.html?__hstc=221944263.1bf908c7c1acea4d703e17ee852348ca.1594299544450.1594299544450.1594299544450.1&__hssc=221944263.1.1594299544450&__hsfp=1495808198) were so generously supported by those public employees.

Illinois state workers in 2017 were the second-highest paid in the U.S. after adjusting for cost of living, averaging $61,207 (https://www.illinoispolicy.org/pritzker-signs-afscme-deal-costing-taxpayers-3-6-billion-more-than-it-needed-to/). More than half of them will become retirement millionaires (https://www.illinoispolicy.org/reports/tax-hikes-vs-reform-why-illinois-must-amend-its-constitution-to-fix-the-pension-crisis/) as Illinois spends nearly double (https://www.illinoispolicy.org/illinois-state-and-local-governments-spend-most-in-nation-on-pensions/) the national average, or more than 25% of the state’s operating budget, on pension costs.

The state’s pension crisis is driven in part by 3% compounded annual pension raises, which are – you guessed it – automatic.

Amending (https://www.illinoispolicy.org/reports/tax-hikes-vs-reform-why-illinois-must-amend-its-constitution-to-fix-the-pension-crisis/) the Illinois Constitution could control those costs, and save the state’s five pension systems from either failing retirees or continuing to cost taxpayers ever more for fewer services. To get there Pritzker and state lawmakers need to take action, but that’s not something that they’re currently having discussions about.


Illinoisans cannot expect solutions if leaders automatically respond to the same old problems with the same unthinking behaviors.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 09, 2020, 09:18:35 AM
I suppose, though it ain't like it's easy to fire the school board either if they are a bunch of screwups.
That is what elections are for. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 09, 2020, 09:21:47 AM
I don't expect Cabinet heads to be "qualified", I'm surprised when they are.  Even if they have background, it's irrelevant in my view.  They are politicians and managers.


Yep. But they are the ones making the decisions. Hard to expect competence at the bottom when there isn't any at the top.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on July 09, 2020, 09:27:51 AM
Scott Walker was my hero for Act 10.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2020, 09:39:58 AM
That is what elections are for.
For most, yes. But in Chicago, the entire school board is appointed by the mayor. The board negotiates contracts with the teacher's union, which throws considerable money to the campaigns of many politicians, including said mayor.

What could go wrong?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2020, 09:46:37 AM
Yep. But they are the ones making the decisions. Hard to expect competence at the bottom when there isn't any at the top.
I don't expect competence at the bottom.  Duh.

So, I don't really expect competence at the top either.

Cabinet heads rarely DO anything that impacts much of anything in reality, a little here and there at times.  My own life has rarely been impacted by something they did or said, and then to a manageable degree.  Life goes on.

I saw bizarre levels of incompetence get rewarded in a large private company nowhere near the size of Federal government.  There is no cure for it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2020, 11:26:07 AM
OK, so here's the report from the task force. As I've repeated many times, business and community involvement will be key components of this. Now, let's see if anything happens. From the Chicago Tribune:



Mayor Lori Lightfoot’s task force on Chicago’s COVID-19 recovery recommends the city accelerate spending on the South and West sides to address inequities deepened by the coronavirus, according to a copy of the group’s final report.
 
The 104-page document released Thursday, assembled by a task force chaired by Lightfoot and former President George H.W. Bush’s onetime chief of staff, Sam Skinner, recommends the city pursue a series of big goals that have long eluded Chicago leaders.
 
Chief among them is a series of recommendations aimed at fighting poverty and entrenched racism. The group’s report notes that COVID-19 has hit Black and Latino communities harder than white counterparts “and laid bare structural disparities in health outcomes, underlying health conditions, access to basic necessities, and safety net support.”
 
“The disproportionate impact of COVID-19 echoes the underlying inequity our city faced pre-COVID-19. Dramatic life expectancy gaps exist across communities. These decades-wide gaps are a result of a continued legacy of systemic racism and disinvestment in Chicago’s communities of color,” the report notes. “In virtually every measure — from economic and food security to access to broadband and mental health services — Chicago’s communities of color are faring the worst, a wrong that must be righted with meaningful transformation and change. The Task Force recommends the city’s existing strategies be accelerated and scaled.”
 
Unveiling the report at the South Shore Cultural Center, Lightfoot said the city lost $900 million from cancelled events as of April 20 and a third of Chicago jobs were at risk.
But she said the economic and public health crisis gives Chicago a chance to reinvent itself as a stronger, more equitable city — a transformation she said could be “the second Chicago renaissance.”
 
“This is a once in a generation moment for us,” Lightfoot said.
 
But making the report’s aspirations a reality will be much harder. It’s not clear how the city would pay for all of its recommendations and problems such as poverty and segregation are years in the making. Even the simple-sounding projects, such as creating a 211 phone line for people to call seeking social services, could be prohibitively expensive at a time when Chicago’s budget is squeezed by pension problems and the coronavirus-related economic shutdown.
 
Some of the report’s recommendations are broad and sweeping — one section of the report, for instance, calls for the city to end “economic hardship, and enable economic security and mobility.” Others deal with the nitty-gritty of Chicago’s economy and calls on officials to seize opportunities raised by the coronavirus crisis, including a recommendation that they “capture film and TV production opportunities given the lack of studio space in places like California.”
 
The report also says Chicago should continue pushing corporations to relocate their headquarters here, something the city was best in the country at under Lightfoot’s predecessor, Rahm Emanuel.
 
Lightfoot announced the task force in April, outside the Water Tower downtown as a nod to the city’s resilience and recovery from the Great Chicago Fire.

At the time, Lightfoot said she wanted Chicago to be a model for recovery across the country. Since then, the city’s reopened broad swaths of industry, though officials continue to warn that they will shut down businesses if residents fail to heed social distancing rules or if coronavirus cases spike.
 
The report also asks Chicago businesses to spend more to help the city achieve its goals.
 
“Throughout Chicago’s history — from rebuilding after the Great Chicago Fire to building the Museum Campus to creating Millennium Park — corporations and the private sector have proven their ability to help transform our region for the better,” the report concluded. “We urge you to join us in this fight to help our recovery from COVID-19 and to lay the groundwork for a more equitable and inclusive region for generations to come. There is no better or more important time than now.”
 


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 09, 2020, 11:42:10 AM
Good parents had good childhoods.  Any discussion about this needs to focus on today's kids being supported/guided into becoming well-rounded adults, who then parent capably.  There is no one-step fix for current parents - they are who they are, by and large.
I agree, my question is what can be done to support and guide today's children.  Good Schools are obviously a large factor, but the kids can only spend so much time at school.  How do we educate/inform/encourage/motivate today's parents and guardians to provide for today's children?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2020, 11:51:23 AM
I agree, my question is what can be done to support and guide today's children.  Good Schools are obviously a large factor, but the kids can only spend so much time at school.  How do we educate/inform/encourage/motivate today's parents and guardians to provide for today's children?
See above, and my post from yesterday. It's going to take a lot of time, but not 90 years. 20.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2020, 04:17:26 PM


Well the citizens can blame themselves for being stupid in the first place.  Stupidity breeding stupidity.  The masses are not responsible or smart, taken as a whole.

Right. And yet they still get to vote and breed more of the same.


I don't see why wearing a mask is a big deal. Yeah, it sucks. It's 95 and humid here today and I wore one when I was out earlier. It sucked donkey balls.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2020, 04:48:56 PM
Smart people think the masses are dumb.

Curiously, dumb people agree.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 09, 2020, 05:27:12 PM
Smart people think the masses are dumb.

Curiously, dumb people agree.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 09, 2020, 09:35:49 PM
I agree, my question is what can be done to support and guide today's children.  Good Schools are obviously a large factor, but the kids can only spend so much time at school.  How do we educate/inform/encourage/motivate today's parents and guardians to provide for today's children?
I don't know.  Those parents have their own subpar childhoods influencing their undesirable ideologies and behaviors now.  

What doesn't help are the positive, helpful parents removing their students from local public schools.  If the school community is positive and their child brings home positive things, that's going to make it more likely for the 'other' families to buy-in.  If their only contact are negative phone calls from school and their child only has negative stories to bring home, then it's the same old shit and they have no incentive to improve.

I've always taught at Title 1 schools and have lived in poorer areas and if I may, one thing I've learned is that when people are poor, anything that isn't an immediate need is irrelevant.  Following traffic laws?  Nah.  Holding a door open?  Right.  Sitting down with my child and asking them about their day, earnestly?  Nuh uh.  Turning down my music because it's late and my neighbors might not appreciate it?  Puh-lease.
I understand this is a wide, general...generalization.  It's unfair to many, but it's still real-world observations over the course of years.

Anyway, it's about immediate needs/wants being met.  A 20 year old interacts very differently with you if they're texting on their phone than if their phone just got cut off.  A parent suddenly doesn't have time to help with homework when they're trying to do the math that gets them to the end of the month (math they struggle with in the first place).

How to provide that?  I don't know.  Universal basic income?  Too liberal, right?  Raising the minimum wage?  Destroys all small businesses, I know, I know.  

Basically what it comes down to is that we have 2 options and maybe both will be required.  We're going to need one generation to be amazing and just "get it" and yearn to do better.  And we need to remove excuses from the generation before it by just inundating them with assistance.  I know, that's a dirty word, but instead of decades of assistance that keeps the same ghettos from the 70s still ghettos today, a one-gen only deluge of help might do it.  Might turn a corner.  Might move the needle in the right direction.  

I doubt any of you will agree, and that's fine.  I don't claim to have THE answer, it's just a shot in the dark.  But financially, this is superior to what's been going on.  It's like a contract with a football player - no one-year deal is a bad deal from the team's perspective, no matter how rich.  The problem that hamstrings teams are bad long-term deals.  We've had a bad long-term deal with poverty for decades.  Cutting a fat, virtual one-year deal is, at least, something different.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 09, 2020, 09:36:23 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect)
They should honestly rename this "being American."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 09, 2020, 11:36:37 PM
They should honestly rename this "being American."
Boy you sure do hate America and “ muricans”. 

Not necessarily a bad thing- seems to be popular and contagious.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 10, 2020, 12:48:20 AM
Boy you sure do hate America and “ muricans”.

Not necessarily a bad thing- seems to be popular and contagious. 
Is it hatred behind labeling a tree a tree?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2020, 06:15:12 AM
I read another poll somewhere that like 85% of responders thought they were a better than average driver.  I bet all of us here think that.

I worry about the 15% actually.

When we opine that "they" are dumb, ignorant, bad drivers, whatever, we are saying WE are better than them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2020, 06:51:05 AM
I of course enjoy looking down my long white educated nose at THOSE people who are not worthy of me.  Peasants, all of them.

Bring back nobility and serfdom I say....

Put US in charge and let US run the economy.  We're the smart people, we don't shop at Walmart because we KNOW better.  Those poor sops need to be told what they should be able to buy and not buy.  I say let US plan this economy for the country from some central entity populated with SMART people, not this invisible hand thing, which I can't even see.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 10, 2020, 07:21:45 AM
I don't know.  Those parents have their own subpar childhoods influencing their undesirable ideologies and behaviors now. 

What doesn't help are the positive, helpful parents removing their students from local public schools.  If the school community is positive and their child brings home positive things, that's going to make it more likely for the 'other' families to buy-in.  If their only contact are negative phone calls from school and their child only has negative stories to bring home, then it's the same old shit and they have no incentive to improve.

I've always taught at Title 1 schools and have lived in poorer areas and if I may, one thing I've learned is that when people are poor, anything that isn't an immediate need is irrelevant.  Following traffic laws?  Nah.  Holding a door open?  Right.  Sitting down with my child and asking them about their day, earnestly?  Nuh uh.  Turning down my music because it's late and my neighbors might not appreciate it?  Puh-lease.
I understand this is a wide, general...generalization.  It's unfair to many, but it's still real-world observations over the course of years.

Anyway, it's about immediate needs/wants being met.  A 20 year old interacts very differently with you if they're texting on their phone than if their phone just got cut off.  A parent suddenly doesn't have time to help with homework when they're trying to do the math that gets them to the end of the month (math they struggle with in the first place).

How to provide that?  I don't know.  Universal basic income?  Too liberal, right?  Raising the minimum wage?  Destroys all small businesses, I know, I know. 

Basically what it comes down to is that we have 2 options and maybe both will be required.  We're going to need one generation to be amazing and just "get it" and yearn to do better.  And we need to remove excuses from the generation before it by just inundating them with assistance.  I know, that's a dirty word, but instead of decades of assistance that keeps the same ghettos from the 70s still ghettos today, a one-gen only deluge of help might do it.  Might turn a corner.  Might move the needle in the right direction. 

I doubt any of you will agree, and that's fine.  I don't claim to have THE answer, it's just a shot in the dark.  But financially, this is superior to what's been going on.  It's like a contract with a football player - no one-year deal is a bad deal from the team's perspective, no matter how rich.  The problem that hamstrings teams are bad long-term deals.  We've had a bad long-term deal with poverty for decades.  Cutting a fat, virtual one-year deal is, at least, something different.
I understand what you are proposing and get why you feel this way. However, the one thing that I have come to realize over the years is that if you give people money/things, they don't tend to appreciate it. If they EARN it, they take ownership. 

I've seen this with my own kids. Things that they were given were not cared for as much as those things that they had to work for. While my wife and I did our best to provide for many of our kids wants, we found that the more they were given, the less they appreciated it. However, once they began working and paying for those same items, they took ownership and saw the value in taking care of those things that they worked hard for.

This translates to the community at large. Most people, not all but most, when provided with housing, clothes, phones, etc. tend to treat them as though they will be replaced by the same people that provided them in the first place. You wonder why public housing is in such disrepair? There is no ownership. If it breaks, oh well, not my problem. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2020, 08:03:23 AM
I think were I "in charge" I would try and start small and run experiments in separate similar areas.  I know I don't have THE answer.  Maybe some of the answers just don't work.  Try a variety of plausible ideas and see which work best, and yes, this takes a lot of time.

Maybe try the broken window concept in an area.  Maybe try spending a lot of money on schools.  Maybe try the enterprise concept in some areas.  Maybe enlist willing corporations to invest in some areas appropriately.  

I do think the drug problem is a problem on many levels, not just that we have addicts.  If I had no realistic hope in life, being an addict with dulled senses is probably better than reality for me.  Maybe legalize and control prostitution.  Legalize and control drugs.  Use the proceeds from selling drugs for drug programs to get people off drugs and working at something, even if picking up trash and litter.

I suspect everyone agrees there is no silver bullet that can make an obvious difference in 2-3 years.  Some might show promise in that time.

Then what do you do about gentrification.  That is a huge factor near where we live.  I have been shocked to see areas I would have avoided in 1970 now being thriving well kept neighborhoods.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 10, 2020, 08:29:41 AM
I think were I "in charge" I would try and start small and run experiments in separate similar areas.  I know I don't have THE answer.  Maybe some of the answers just don't work.  Try a variety of plausible ideas and see which work best, and yes, this takes a lot of time.

Maybe try the broken window concept in an area.  Maybe try spending a lot of money on schools.  Maybe try the enterprise concept in some areas.  Maybe enlist willing corporations to invest in some areas appropriately. 

I do think the drug problem is a problem on many levels, not just that we have addicts.  If I had no realistic hope in life, being an addict with dulled senses is probably better than reality for me.  Maybe legalize and control prostitution.  Legalize and control drugs.  Use the proceeds from selling drugs for drug programs to get people off drugs and working at something, even if picking up trash and litter.

I suspect everyone agrees there is no silver bullet that can make an obvious difference in 2-3 years.  Some might show promise in that time.

Then what do you do about gentrification.  That is a huge factor near where we live.  I have been shocked to see areas I would have avoided in 1970 now being thriving well kept neighborhoods.
It's already been done, and it's working, so far. If you want to know more, ask me about it.

In a nutshell, people in poverty are being lifted up through education, which was made possible by volunteers, business donors and individual donors.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2020, 08:40:37 AM
I've mentioned before that our HS in Cincy was "lily white" and then incorporated an area south of the district that was, well, not.  It caused quite a furor at the time (1975ish).  The advantage they had was a very large industrial base for taxes (GE was there, 20,000 employees at the time).  Over time, there was some white flight, the neighboring Sycamore school district was 95% white and property values were 20% higher than where we lived.  I could see houses in that district through the trees.  

At the time my kids attended, the school had discipline issues and a number of security officers.  Many of the black kids of course came from poor broken homes and some had serious discipline problems.  But some used the opportunity to do quite well.  Most of them had single parents, moms.  (There also were poor white kids, the issues were not entirely black by any means.)  The school offered an IB program, one of few in the state.  The top kids would go to schools like Stanford and MIT every year, I would go to the Senior Awards ceremony to present our scholarship.

It's a decent success story because some, maybe many, of those black kids ended up with far better educations than they would have had in an all black school with a limited tax base.  Another couple awarded a scholarship to the first HS graduate to go to college from that family.

Education is the key, but getting there is not so easy of course.  It's somewhat like the virus spread, if society can spin out well educated black kids faster than thugs and gang members, over time it works itself out.

My whole family was in education except me, my great uncle was head of the state dept of ed for many years.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 10, 2020, 10:32:30 AM
I think were I "in charge" I would try and start small and run experiments in separate similar areas.  I know I don't have THE answer.  Maybe some of the answers just don't work.  Try a variety of plausible ideas and see which work best, and yes, this takes a lot of time.

I would guess something that "worked" in one area may not "work" in a very similar area, just like one coaching staff may do well with a certain program, but when hired by a similar program the same methods just don't do the trick.

but, gotta keep trying and be flexible and innovative
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 10, 2020, 10:34:23 AM
It's already been done, and it's working, so far. If you want to know more, ask me about it.

In a nutshell, people in poverty are being lifted up through education, which was made possible by volunteers, business donors and individual donors.
if more of the top wealthy folks, organizations would give back in various ways there might be enough money to change things drastically for the future
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 10, 2020, 11:10:36 AM
Exactly. It has to be done, starting right now. AND it CANNOT be led by government. No more progrums.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 10, 2020, 11:22:00 AM
I think this one belongs on THIS thread, not the Virus thread.


https://www.foxnews.com/world/chinese-virologist-coronavirus-cover-up-flee-hong-kong-whistleblower (https://www.foxnews.com/world/chinese-virologist-coronavirus-cover-up-flee-hong-kong-whistleblower)


EXCLUSIVE: Chinese virologist accuses Beijing of coronavirus cover-up, flees Hong Kong: 'I know how they treat whistleblowers'
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 10, 2020, 11:26:53 AM
fox fake news
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 10, 2020, 11:32:40 AM
I guess we'll see, won't we?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 10, 2020, 12:10:40 PM
I have my fingers crossed
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 10, 2020, 12:49:07 PM
Then what do you do about gentrification.  That is a huge factor near where we live.  I have been shocked to see areas I would have avoided in 1970 now being thriving well kept neighborhoods.
So I'm confused about gentrification. 

We seem to bemoan that we've got extremely poor, broken, neighborhoods.

Then we complain when those neighborhoods get better? 

Is the complaint that as those neighborhoods stop sucking, the poor people can't afford to live there? 

And if so, isn't the bigger issue that poverty is not being improved, it's just being moved?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 10, 2020, 12:54:07 PM

Education is the key, but getting there is not so easy of course

Mostly because everyone runs on education, but when it comes down to $$$, it's always last in line.  Well, in front of the veterans, but everyone is to blame for their neglect.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 10, 2020, 12:56:17 PM
So I'm confused about gentrification.

We seem to bemoan that we've got extremely poor, broken, neighborhoods.

Then we complain when those neighborhoods get better?

Is the complaint that as those neighborhoods stop sucking, the poor people can't afford to live there?

And if so, isn't the bigger issue that poverty is not being improved, it's just being moved?
Yes, the trick would be improving areas while keeping the same population in place.  But simply raising rent/mortgages costs doesn't do that.  A commensurate increase in income would offset that and we could come up with some other fancy word when the ideal goal is met.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2020, 12:57:51 PM
Mostly because everyone runs on education, but when it comes down to $$$, it's always last in line.  Well, in front of the veterans, but everyone is to blame for their neglect.
This simply isn't the case nationally.  I've noted before we spend more than any other large industrialized country and K-12 education.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 10, 2020, 12:58:57 PM
Mostly because everyone runs on education, but when it comes down to $$$, it's always last in line.  Well, in front of the veterans, but everyone is to blame for their neglect.
Your paint brush is far too broad. You speak in absolutes. It's bullshit.

I volunteer my time (a LOT) and donate (a LOT) to education, healthcare, veteran organizations and the local chamber.

What exactly do YOU do?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 10, 2020, 01:03:48 PM
I understand what you are proposing and get why you feel this way. However, the one thing that I have come to realize over the years is that if you give people money/things, they don't tend to appreciate it. If they EARN it, they take ownership.

I've seen this with my own kids. Things that they were given were not cared for as much as those things that they had to work for. While my wife and I did our best to provide for many of our kids wants, we found that the more they were given, the less they appreciated it. However, once they began working and paying for those same items, they took ownership and saw the value in taking care of those things that they worked hard for.

This translates to the community at large. Most people, not all but most, when provided with housing, clothes, phones, etc. tend to treat them as though they will be replaced by the same people that provided them in the first place. You wonder why public housing is in such disrepair? There is no ownership. If it breaks, oh well, not my problem.

Yes, this is a better idea and I think would work if the act of earning of it was aligned with their needs being met.  Something to reward behavior that many already do - a credit for renewing auto insurance, a 10% credit for on-time rent payments......or even better, a cash-back system for simply doing the things we're all supposed to do that the poor slack off on.  Feeling like you're getting extra is better than discounting costs in the now-now-now mindset.

Easy hoops to jump through and gradually growing them towards improvement.  Earning money/assistance through responsible actions we want all citizens to do.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 10, 2020, 01:06:09 PM
Your paint brush is far too broad. You speak in absolutes. It's bullshit.

I volunteer my time (a LOT) and donate (a LOT) to education, healthcare, veteran organizations and the local chamber.

What exactly do YOU do?
The overall system has failed veterans.  Your contributions as an individual are great, but does not offset the next 5,000,000 people who do nothing and more importantly, the neglect from our government.

It's not about you or me, so save your being offended for one of my next few posts.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 10, 2020, 01:09:41 PM
This simply isn't the case nationally.  I've noted before we spend more than any other large industrialized country and K-12 education.
Spending is still down since the 2008 recession.  And an ever-growing percentage of it is going towards charters and private schools.

How intelligent the spending is would be a different matter.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 10, 2020, 01:11:40 PM
The overall system has failed veterans.  Your contributions as an individual are great, but does not offset the next 5,000,000 people who do nothing and more importantly, the neglect from our government.

It's not about you or me, so save your being offended for one of my next few posts.
That's the problem. Everyone says that same bullshit, and points fingers. That's the easy way out. It absolutely IS about you and me.

People who are able need to get out and DO something.

We cannot rely on government. It's all about community. I know this first hand.

I was not offended. I stand by my statement. Your brush is too broad.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 10, 2020, 01:12:31 PM
it takes a village

how do we make the village better?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 10, 2020, 01:14:41 PM
As for the "system" failing on veterans.. All you need to do is look at the VA Health system. It's run by none other than government. My son is a veteran, and he doesn't even use it, because it is terrible.

And so very many people really want government to take over all of healthcare? 

F that. I'd rather "keep my doctor".
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 10, 2020, 01:15:29 PM
it takes a village

how do we make the village better?
By getting out and taking positive action. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 10, 2020, 01:21:32 PM
By getting out and taking positive action.
People aren't going to care for others unless they're taken care of first.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2020, 01:24:55 PM
A buddy of mine, an MD, goes to Haiti often with his wife, a nurse.  He tells me the Haitian people in general are the most caring and sharing people he's ever been around.  And they have almost nothing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 10, 2020, 01:39:10 PM
People aren't going to care for others unless they're taken care of first. 
I disagree completely. For every positive action there is a positive return action. We need to turn these into chain reactions. Then it will work.

20 years. Not 90.

The is my new deal.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 10, 2020, 08:37:14 PM
A buddy of mine, an MD, goes to Haiti often with his wife, a nurse.  He tells me the Haitian people in general are the most caring and sharing people he's ever been around.  And they have almost nothing.
Thanks, Captain Exception.  They're not American.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2020, 08:18:22 AM
People aren't going to care for others unless they're taken care of first. 
The term "people" includes Haitians, does it not?  Are Americans really fundamentally different from other "people"?

I think not, personally.  We are all basically the same.

"Those people" prefer not to be considered as "they", or somehow different from "us".

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 11, 2020, 04:00:21 PM
The term "people" includes Haitians, does it not?  Are Americans really fundamentally different from other "people"?

I think not, personally.  We are all basically the same.

"Those people" prefer not to be considered as "they", or somehow different from "us".


I think you're being ticky-tacky on purpose.  There's a reason people can tell you're American quite easily, overseas.  We're different - a very distinct culture, often not in a good way.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2020, 04:18:37 PM
Au contraire, I am often confused with a Frenchmen "overseas".  I think it must be my savoire faire, or my charm, or my devastating good looks, or my witty repartee, or my delight in dining on escargot and Champagne.  I was even asked if I was French in British Columbia, the person could not tell if I was Qubequois or French.  I informed him that with a last name like Chevrolet, I would only be authentic French.  I gave him my full name, Bastion Cadillac Chevrolet, an engineer for Michelin, living in Clermont-Ferrand, in the massif central district.

At any rate, I am against all over generalizations.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 11, 2020, 04:58:36 PM
I think you're being ticky-tacky on purpose.  There's a reason people can tell you're American quite easily, overseas.  We're different - a very distinct culture, often not in a good way.
Where have you been, and how often? Include the areas you've been (and spent time in) for THIS country too. The culture varies widely here. Boston sucks. Nashville doesn't. Just a couple of examples, of many.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 11, 2020, 05:04:31 PM
I'll withdraw myself from the 'I' and 'me' sample size conversations.  It'll help me retain more of my hair.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 12, 2020, 09:50:48 AM

FUN INFO RENAMING TEAMS


I think all sports fans and most everybody else will get a kick out of this letter written to the Chicago Tribune. No matter which side you are on in the matter of renaming the Washington Redskins, this is funny. This guy is hilarious...This is an e-mail sent to Clarence Page of the Chicago Tribune after an article he published concerning a name change for the Washington Redskins.
 
Dear Mr. Page: I agree with our Native American population. I am highly jilted by the racially charged name of the Washington Redskins. One might argue that to name a professional football team after Native Americans would exalt them as fine warriors, but nay, nay. We must be careful not to offend, and in the spirit of political correctness and courtesy, we must move forward.
Let's ditch the Kansas City Chiefs, the Atlanta Braves and the Cleveland Indians.
If your shorts are in a wad because of the reference the name Redskins makes to skin color, then we need to get rid of the Cleveland Browns.
The Carolina Panthers obviously were named to keep the memory of militant Blacks from the 60's alive. Gone. It's offensive to us white folk.
The New York Yankees offend the Southern population. Do you see a team named for the Confederacy? No! There is no room for any reference to that tragic war that cost this country so many young men's lives.
I am also offended by the blatant references to the Catholic religion among our sports team names. Totally inappropriate to have the New Orleans Saints, the Los Angeles Angels or the San Diego Padres.
Then there are the team names that glorify criminals who raped and pillaged. We are talking about the horrible Oakland Raiders, the Minnesota Vikings, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the Pittsburgh Pirates!
Now, let us address those teams that clearly send the wrong message to our children. The San Diego Chargers promote irresponsible fighting or even spending habits.Wrong message to our children.
The New York Giants and the San Francisco Giants promote obesity, a growing childhood epidemic. Wrong message to our children.
The Cincinnati Reds promote downers/barbiturates. Wrong message to our children.
The Milwaukee Brewers Well that goes without saying. Wrong message to our children.
So, there you go. We need to support any legislation that comes out to rectify this travesty, because the government will likely become involved with this issue, as they should. Just the kind of thing the do-nothing Congress loves.
As a die-hard Oregon State fan, my wife and I, with all of this in mind, suggest it might also make some sense to change the name of the Oregon State women's athletic teams to something other than "the Beavers (especially when they play Southern California. Do we really want the Trojans sticking it to the Beavers???
I always love your articles and I generally agree with them. As for the Redskins name I would suggest they change the name to the "Foreskins" to better represent their community, paying tribute to the dick heads in Washington DC.



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2020, 11:38:00 AM
A 14-year-old boy was among at least 23 shot in Chicago in the 12 hours from 8 p.m. Saturday to 8 a.m. Sunday, according to Chicago police, who in that time also responded to one shooting in which five people were hit, one fatally.
 
Among the nearly two dozen people shot, at least two of them have died, prompting homicide investigations, officials said.
 
Saturday’s spate of shootings comes amid an already deadly weekend that includes the fatal shooting of 15-year-old Terrance Malden on Friday  (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-chicago-violence-homicides-20200712-nvg3sxvrebdwtl4eujqrafni3y-story.html)in the Jeffery Manor neighborhood on the Far South Side. At least 30 others had been wounded from Thursday to Saturday, for a total of at least 53 people shot since Thursday, officials said.
 
About 12:45 a.m., officers were called to the 1100 block of North Lawndale Avenue in Humboldt Park on the city’s West Side. Five men were shot following a verbal argument and physical fight. One of the men, a 52-year-old, was shot in the neck and was pronounced dead at the scene.
 
Police said the men had been standing in the street when several other men opened fire after words were exchanged. Both a 23-year-old man and a 33-year-old man were taken to Stroger Hospital in critical condition with multiple gunshot wounds each. A 32-year-old man was shot in the head and was taken to Norwegian Hospital where his condition was stabilized and a 34-year-old man was shot in the arm and also was stabilized at Norwegian, officials said.
 
No arrests had been made.
 


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2020, 11:46:14 AM
I'll withdraw myself from the 'I' and 'me' sample size conversations.  It'll help me retain more of my hair.
Taking your bat, ball and broad brush and going home? Nah!

I'd like to know about your vast cultural exposure, and why you think the rest of the world hates the USA and its people. It is contrary to what my experience has been while travelling, which is why I ask.

Are you planning to flee the USA for another country? Which one do you choose?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 12, 2020, 01:51:22 PM
I probably have Fro beat, and I've only been to Canada and Mexico.

He may have been to Mexico (but no farther than Nogales). I doubt he's been to Canada.

No way he's ventured out beyond either of them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 12, 2020, 02:27:09 PM
Stay proud, guys.  Badge, could you quote where I said the rest of the world hates us?  I'll hang up and listen.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2020, 03:56:24 PM
I would probably move to Canada as my first choice, maybe BC, Vancouver or something that way, if I had to move.

Other than that, maybe Puerto Rico or Hawaii or Guam.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 12, 2020, 04:16:14 PM
If anyone wants to finance a brewery in the Cinque Terre, just let me know and I'm gone. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2020, 04:27:18 PM
Stay proud, guys.  Badge, could you quote where I said the rest of the world hates us?  I'll hang up and listen.
I substituted "hate" for your two sentences on how we are perceived. In general, you could not possibly be more wrong.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 12, 2020, 05:15:03 PM
I'm not sure the new deal was failed/bad at the time.There were no Gov't safety nets in place at the time save some soup lines.No welfare,unemployment just the The WPA; renamed in 1939 as the Work Projects Administration was an employing millions of job-seekers to carry out public works projects, including the construction of public buildings and roads.Had to kick start the economy somehow
The New Deal did not kick-start the economy.  It was all about centralized control, and that didn't work.  The economy was still floundering in 1939 when WWII began in Europe.  It started pulling out as we began selling military weapons and materiel to Britain and France, and then our own entry after Pearl Harbor really brought about economic recovery.
The way we teach the New Deal is by dividing it up into its three stated goals--Relief, Recovery, and Reform.
It did provide relief, it created long-lasting reforms (you can argue about whether they were good ones or not), but it absolutely did not provide for economic recovery.  The economy would have recovered more quickly had there never been a New Deal (or Herbert Hoover's massive-for-their-time) interventions either.
The contemporary nicknames for the WPA were “We Poke Along,” “We Piddle Around,” “We Putter Along,” “We Provide Alms,” etc.
Throw enough money at things and some good stuff comes out.  My parents graduated from a high school built by the WPA in a new architectural style, "WPA Art Deco."
(https://i.imgur.com/QUU8uB2.png)

It was built on the poor side of town.  The WPA built an even nicer one in a nicer part of town.

(https://i.imgur.com/KAMcJbm.png)
The WPA built 3 runways out on little islands in the Pacific for Amelia Earhart's flight.
A lot of the federal "redlining" policies that kept black families from accumulating wealth through home-ownership started during the New Deal.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 12, 2020, 05:16:45 PM
The New Deal did not kick-start the economy.  
Then kids are being taught wrong, lol.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 12, 2020, 05:17:20 PM
I substituted "hate" for your two sentences on how we are perceived. In general, you could not possibly be more wrong.
Right, you changed my words.  At least you acknowledge reality.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2020, 05:46:39 PM
Then kids are being taught wrong, lol.
Of course. History professors like to re-write it too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2020, 05:56:21 PM
The New Deal likely had some impact on the economy, but there was another downturn in 1937 that was pretty severe.  It really was the war that moved us out of the Depression.  Economies do tend to recover on their own to some extent, so it's hard to distinguish how much was government policy related and how much was just normal.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 12, 2020, 06:32:25 PM
I don't know.  Those parents have their own subpar childhoods influencing their undesirable ideologies and behaviors now. 

What doesn't help are the positive, helpful parents removing their students from local public schools.  If the school community is positive and their child brings home positive things, that's going to make it more likely for the 'other' families to buy-in.  If their only contact are negative phone calls from school and their child only has negative stories to bring home, then it's the same old shit and they have no incentive to improve.

I've always taught at Title 1 schools and have lived in poorer areas and if I may, one thing I've learned is that when people are poor, anything that isn't an immediate need is irrelevant.  Following traffic laws?  Nah.  Holding a door open?  Right.  Sitting down with my child and asking them about their day, earnestly?  Nuh uh.  Turning down my music because it's late and my neighbors might not appreciate it?  Puh-lease.
I understand this is a wide, general...generalization.  It's unfair to many, but it's still real-world observations over the course of years.

Anyway, it's about immediate needs/wants being met.  A 20 year old interacts very differently with you if they're texting on their phone than if their phone just got cut off.  A parent suddenly doesn't have time to help with homework when they're trying to do the math that gets them to the end of the month (math they struggle with in the first place).

How to provide that?  I don't know.  Universal basic income?  Too liberal, right?  Raising the minimum wage?  Destroys all small businesses, I know, I know. 

Basically what it comes down to is that we have 2 options and maybe both will be required.  We're going to need one generation to be amazing and just "get it" and yearn to do better.  And we need to remove excuses from the generation before it by just inundating them with assistance.  I know, that's a dirty word, but instead of decades of assistance that keeps the same ghettos from the 70s still ghettos today, a one-gen only deluge of help might do it.  Might turn a corner.  Might move the needle in the right direction. 

I doubt any of you will agree, and that's fine.  I don't claim to have THE answer, it's just a shot in the dark.  But financially, this is superior to what's been going on.  It's like a contract with a football player - no one-year deal is a bad deal from the team's perspective, no matter how rich.  The problem that hamstrings teams are bad long-term deals.  We've had a bad long-term deal with poverty for decades.  Cutting a fat, virtual one-year deal is, at least, something different.
Thank you for teaching at poor schools.  It takes a special sort of teacher to willingly do that.  I am not one of those.  I taught at what was supposed to be a magnet middle school for foreign languages, but was at the edge of "inner city-dom."  It was not by far the worst or poorest middle school in town.  It had no race/ethnic group in the majority.  Whites were the largest minority group, then blacks, then Latinos, then Native Americans.  I did that for 8 years.  It was not a joy for me.  Every Sunday evening during the school year, my stomach started twisting into knots in anticipation of the next five days.

Middle school, for one thing, is the pits.  I'm sure that most of us remember ourselves when we were 12-14, and we think that we were just fine then.  Well, we weren't.  Most of us were awful.  That's the worst age.  And most of the kids, and most of their parents, didn't put much value on the notion of education.  We did not set and uphold high standards of either behavior or academic performance.  In general, the black kids were the worst-behaved, but there was a quota system on school discipline.  We could not have impose disciplinary action on a higher percentage of black kids than the percentage of black kids in the overall school population.  The black kids--no dummies--had this figured out and they knew that they could get away with behavior that would get white kids suspended.

All that is to say that what you are doing in teaching impoverished kids is a good thing.

About your recommendations, I think that they are very high-minded, but I don't think that they would work.  They are extensions of the same ideas that have failed over the last 50+ years.  More federal money into inner-city schools.  More before-school and after-school programs.  Head Start.  Free meals.  Free laundry service at school.  What all of that has done is to relieve parents of their responsibilities to raise their children properly.

When Hammerin' Henry Cisneros was HUD Secretary during the Clinton years, he had the idea that the way to inspire poor people to move out of poverty was to put them into subsidized housing in middle-class neighborhoods.  They would see that middle-class people got up in the morning and went to work, that they that came home at the end of the work-day, that they mowed their yards, that they kept their homes repaired.  So middle-class values would rub off on the poor folks, and they would adopt those values, and they would join the middle class.  It didn't work.  Instead, the middle-class areas that were the recipients of these projects deteriorated, property values went down, and the middle-class folks moved out.  So the net effect was to expand poverty rather than to help people climb out of it.

To me, your well-intentioned proposal seems to be to do more of the same.  A lot more.  All at once.  To jump-start a generation of poor minority parents into being being good parents in strong families.  But one effect of our anti-poverty programs over the last 50+ years has been to weaken the family structure in poor families, which means, disproportionately, black families.  (It's not the only factor doing this--a criminal justice system that incarcerates black convicts longer than white ones is another.)  In fact, if you look at poverty rates in America over time, you will find that from 1950 to 1965, they were consistently coming down.  More Americans got off poverty during that time--with the benefit of few if any centralized anti-poverty programs.  Starting in 1966, the "War on Poverty" programs began to kick in, and the decline in poverty rates stopped.  Ever since, it has remained between 11 and 14 percent, fluctuating with the economy.

Just as with many things that the federal government runs, the results were far different from what was promised.  The money was spent, and is still being spent, but poverty rates aren't going down anymore.  We would have done better, perhaps, to have just cut very large checks to poor people rather than building an armada of social programs that don't work well and often even work at cross purposes.

It doesn't work to say, "Well, they didn't design the programs right--we'll do it better this time."  When billions of dollars are going to be spent, our political system isn't very good at making sure that they all go to where they are most needed.  Most of it goes to line the pockets of people with connections to powerful politicians and never makes it to the supposed target audience.

One more thing.  It is also no good to say, "Well, those white middle-class families should have stayed in the deteriorating neighborhood rather than abandon it."  Parents' primary responsibilities are to their own children, not the children of some folks they don't even know who have moved into the neighborhood because of some federal program.  Our circles of responsibilities work outward, in decreasing degrees of responsibility.  I am responsible to my wife more than I am to the welfare of the other wives in my neighborhood.  I am responsible for the welfare of the wives in my neighborhood more than I am for the welfare of the wives on the other side of town.  And more for them than for the wives on the other side of the country.  Same thing with our parents and our children.  It is not right for you or the government to expect that, faced with a deteriorating school system, I will keep my children in it out of a sense that I owe it to the other kids in the school system.

We meet our obligations to those closest to us directly.  We meet our obligations to society by being good neighbors, paying our taxes, obeying the laws, and, if possible, through charitable works and donations.  (BTW, Americans are the most charitable people in the world.)  But my children are not sacrificial pawns to make programs designed by Henry Cisneros and his ilk work.  What parents owe their children is the best that they can provide.  If that means moving them out of a failing public school system into a better one, then that's what they should do, IMO.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 12, 2020, 06:36:03 PM
They should honestly rename this "being American."
No.  They should rename it "being human."
I don't know where you got this idea that people everywhere else are better, smarter, wiser, more honorable, etc.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 12, 2020, 06:43:00 PM
Yes, the trick would be improving areas while keeping the same population in place.  But simply raising rent/mortgages costs doesn't do that.  A commensurate increase in income would offset that and we could come up with some other fancy word when the ideal goal is met.
But the areas WON'T improve while the same population is there.  The evidence is that they haven't improved.
Areas don't get gentrified merely by someone coming in and raising rents and mortgages.  The rising rents and mortgages are the results, not the causes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 12, 2020, 06:47:51 PM
Then kids are being taught wrong, lol.
If you are teaching them that the New Deal did kick-start the economy, then they are being taught wrong.

Here's what FDR's Treasury Secretary had to say on the subject:

Quote
“We’ve tried spending money. We’re spending more money than we’ve ever spent before, and it does not work.

“I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get jobs. We have never made good on our promises. I say after eight [sic] years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started and an enormous debt to boot.”

~ Treasury Secretary Henry Morgenthau testimony to Congress, 9 May 1939
He should have said "six."  Maybe he was also thinking about Hoover's proto-New Deal programs that also didn't lead to economic recovery.  Much of the New Deal consisted of extension and expansions of programs that Hoover had started.

Quote
“We didn’t admit it at the time, but practically the whole New Deal was extrapolated from programs that Hoover started.”

~ Rexford Tugwell
Interview, 1974
Rexford Tugwell was part of FDR's "Brains Trust" of advisors.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 12, 2020, 07:32:07 PM
If anyone wants to finance a brewery in the Cinque Terre, just let me know and I'm gone.
I can help tend the wort?Would Cinque Terre be to hot for laggering?Just right for IPAs,meh Maybe I'll go to Ontario/Qubec
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 12, 2020, 09:16:41 PM

I don't know where you got this idea that people everywhere else are better, smarter, wiser, more honorable, etc.
I don't know why people keep inventing words I never said.  FFS.

People around the world are no better, smarter, wiser, or more honorable than we Americans are.  They're simply less delusional about themselves.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 12, 2020, 09:17:58 PM
If you are teaching them that the New Deal did kick-start the economy, then they are being taught wrong.
I'm not teaching that.  Can you move off of me and just keep it to the general here?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 12, 2020, 09:20:23 PM
But the areas WON'T improve while the same population is there.  The evidence is that they haven't improved.
Areas don't get gentrified merely by someone coming in and raising rents and mortgages.  The rising rents and mortgages are the results, not the causes.
Ehhh.....Im living this reality right now.  New ownership - raises the rent a little.  Repaves the parking areas - raises the rent a little.  Slaps a new paint scheme on the buildings - raises the rent a little.

Gradually the riff-raff leave, as the cost of living there rises continually and people with better credit move in.  The costs have to go up to make room for the new, paler people to move in.

Combine that with an unused, crappy property being transformed into something desirable, and POOF - your gentrification is well underway!  After all, those people with better credit will spend more money at the desirable property nearby.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 12, 2020, 09:57:42 PM
I don't know why people keep inventing words I never said.  FFS.

People around the world are no better, smarter, wiser, or more honorable than we Americans are.  They're simply less delusional about themselves.
When Badge (?) posted something about a common sort of delusional thinking, you said it equaled "Americans."  I didn't invent that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 12, 2020, 09:59:39 PM
I'm not teaching that.  Can you move off of me and just keep it to the general here?
If you're going to make snarky comments, then you have to live with pointed responses.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2020, 10:15:43 PM


No way am I looking all those up again.

Feel free to Google them though.  You won't see USA on top no matter the source.  (except incarceration rate...)




My source, who would be me, says the USA is at the top. I've been to a lot of countries, for extended stays. There is no better than this one.



Of course, I'm moving soon to my little corner of SW Florida, and I will hide out there until this country is no longer livable for people like me. Hopefully the engineering lab at the local college retains my name, even though it's a white guy name. 

Hopefully.

Then I'll either move to the Bahamas, Bermuda, Sicily, Germany or the Netherlands. They like us in those places, a lot. I could fit in just fine in any of them.

If Sicily, I'd also have a place in Germany, for healthcare purposes. I've become accustomed to fantastic healthcare.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 12, 2020, 10:33:31 PM
JFC what the hell is happening here?  

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2020, 10:46:01 PM
JFC what the hell is happening here? 


I'm trying to get people to move their bullshit from the Virus thread to this one.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 12, 2020, 10:52:59 PM
I'm trying to get people to move their bullshit from the Virus thread to this one.
You're one brave MFer my friend.

I think it's almost to the point to nuke it all from space-- the only way to be sure, ya know?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2020, 11:04:38 PM
I did some cleaning up the other day, and the whole time I was wondering where the F you were.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 12, 2020, 11:10:01 PM
I was wonderfully, blissfully happy, camping for a week in a state park in Texico.

I'll be back there one week from yesterday, for another full week.  Freaking HEAVEN.

Until then, though, I got a lot of problems with you people.  And now you're gonna hear about it!

;)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 12, 2020, 11:11:41 PM
I was wonderfully, blissfully happy, camping for a week in a state park in Texico.

I'll be back there one week from yesterday, for another full week.  Freaking HEAVEN.

Until then, though, I got a lot of problems with you people.  And now you're gonna hear about it!

;)

What's your camping setup like?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2020, 11:14:58 PM
antique airstream? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2020, 11:15:13 PM
with flags
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2020, 08:30:23 AM
I don't know why people keep inventing words I never said.  FFS.

People around the world are no better, smarter, wiser, or more honorable than we Americans are.  They're simply less delusional about themselves.
I agree with the first part, not the part about being delusional.

I don't believe there is any singular American trait that can be applied specifically to Americans.  We generally have customs which are unusual to unique of course, but so do other countries.  As for being less delusional, I would strongly disagree.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 13, 2020, 09:36:19 AM
I don’t care if someone thinks America is the greatest country in the world or not.  I admit I don’t understand when people seem embarrassed to be American and the tone of OAM’s posts smacks of that.

Now, I’m sure he’ll deny that and remind everyone he never actually said that but that was the distinct impression I got.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2020, 10:48:18 AM
As I've noted, I don't view this group of people as being somehow a lot different from that group of people, at the core.

I could argue the French are often delusional obviously, as are most everyone else around the world, including me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 13, 2020, 10:49:08 AM
As Sunday drew to a close in Chicago, a 15-year-old girl was shot while standing on a West Side street, just half an hour after two teenaged boys were wounded while sitting in a car at a South Side gas station.

The attacks capped another violent weekend in the city, with at least 10 people killed and 50 others wounded. The youngest victim was a 15-year-old boy shot dead on the Far South Side, blocks from where his older brother was fatally shot in April.

The level of violence was similar to the same weekends in 2016 and 2017, the worst years for shootings in Chicago since the 1990s.


This was the first weekend since a new specialized citywide unit was announced to stop flare-ups in violence. It was also the fourth weekend in a row that a child under 16 was fatally shot in Chicago.

Over the July 4 weekend, a 7-year-old girl and a 14-year-old boy were killed. The weekend before, a 20-month-old boy and a 10-year-old girl were killed. A week earlier, five children were fatally shot, including a 3-year-old boy riding in a car with his father.

On Sunday night, two boys 14 and 17 were in a car with a 20-year-old man when a silver SUV approached and someone opened fire around 11:30 p.m. in the 7000 block of South Damen Avenue in the West Englewood neighborhood, police said.

The man was shot several times and taken to Holy Cross Hospital, where he was pronounced dead, police said.



The older teenager was shot in the right arm and the younger one was shot in the back, police said. 

They were both taken to Comer Children’s Hospital in good condition.


No arrests have been made.

Just before midnight, a 15-year-old girl was shot on the West Side, police said. She and a 29-year-old man were standing on a sidewalk in the 4200 block of West Monroe Street in the West Garfield Park neighborhood when they heard gunshots, police said.


The man was shot in the calf and the girl was shot in the left knee, calf and shoulder, police said. They were both taken to Stroger Hospital in good condition.


No arrests have been made.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2020, 10:57:44 AM
"The level of violence was similar to the same weekends in 2016 and 2017, the worst years for shootings in Chicago since the 1990s."

I infer that the levels of violence had dropped off in 2018 and 2019, why I don't know.  Is there anything changed in the current crime situation?  COVID related?  Protest related?  Or just the way it is?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 13, 2020, 11:09:59 AM
This year? I think it's related to cops being neutered across the country, but that's speculation only.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2020, 11:13:49 AM
The paper says it was this bad 2016-7.  And the cops of course generally arrive after the crime took place.

And then no one wants to talk or saw anything.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 13, 2020, 11:25:06 AM
Right, but violence seemed to drop for a couple of years there, under Eddie Johnson's leadership. Things are blowing up again.

And yes, there is a code of silence.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 13, 2020, 11:55:56 AM
Jeez that's horrifying, badge.

Do these tend to be gang related hits, and the children are just caught in the crossfire?  Or are they random?  Or are kids being intentionally targeted for reasons of intimidation or something?

I just don't understand how one human can do that to another.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 13, 2020, 12:00:16 PM
I think some is random, but I've been reading that the members are getting younger and younger.

Obviously, the 20 month old baby lost last weekend was random.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 13, 2020, 12:17:32 PM
I'd sure as hell find a way to get my family out of there

if I had to steal a shopping cart and walk out with whatever belongings would fit
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on July 13, 2020, 01:35:35 PM
Then kids are being taught wrong, lol.
Yes they are
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2020, 03:26:58 PM
I'd sure as hell find a way to get my family out of there

if I had to steal a shopping cart and walk out with whatever belongings would fit
Humans are remarkably adaptable to conditions.  I'd imagine folks in that neighborhood have friends and relatives nearby and likely are unable to find another place to live they can afford, or they would leave.  Those who can have, mostly, I'd imagine.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 13, 2020, 03:48:53 PM
Yes, many have fled for the South suburbs. They are affordable options for people who want out of the City. The trouble is a general lack of public transit options down there. None of the current CTA routes leave the City down there, and there is only one Metra line.

(https://i.imgur.com/BgE5NUg.png)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on July 13, 2020, 05:48:15 PM
This year? I think it's related to cops being neutered across the country, but that's speculation only.
The Ferguson Effect.   Same thing is happening in MSP right now. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 13, 2020, 06:00:49 PM
I don’t care if someone thinks America is the greatest country in the world or not.  I admit I don’t understand when people seem embarrassed to be American and the tone of OAM’s posts smacks of that.

Now, I’m sure he’ll deny that and remind everyone he never actually said that but that was the distinct impression I got.
Well I'm going to make distinctions when I feel they need to be made.  Specifically, I've never even suggested that I'm embarrassed to be American.  I have, however, found a multitude of words and actions our leaders, groups, and other individuals in America that I deem embarrassing.

I see those as being 2 very different things.  If I'm in Rome, I'm not going to lie and say I'm Canadian.  I'm going to tell the truth and hopefully show that not all Americans worship Jesus, fireworks, and lottery tickets.  Now, most Americans don't, as we know, but that may be the caricature of us.

Shall I apologize for not being broad and messy?  Embarrassed perhaps?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 13, 2020, 06:04:49 PM
As Sunday drew to a close in Chicago, a 15-year-old girl was shot while standing on a West Side street, just half an hour after two teenaged boys were wounded while sitting in a car at a South Side gas station.

The attacks capped another violent weekend in the city, with at least 10 people killed and 50 others wounded. The youngest victim was a 15-year-old boy shot dead on the Far South Side, blocks from where his older brother was fatally shot in April.

The level of violence was similar to the same weekends in 2016 and 2017, the worst years for shootings in Chicago since the 1990s.


This was the first weekend since a new specialized citywide unit was announced to stop flare-ups in violence. It was also the fourth weekend in a row that a child under 16 was fatally shot in Chicago.

Over the July 4 weekend, a 7-year-old girl and a 14-year-old boy were killed. The weekend before, a 20-month-old boy and a 10-year-old girl were killed. A week earlier, five children were fatally shot, including a 3-year-old boy riding in a car with his father.

On Sunday night, two boys 14 and 17 were in a car with a 20-year-old man when a silver SUV approached and someone opened fire around 11:30 p.m. in the 7000 block of South Damen Avenue in the West Englewood neighborhood, police said.

The man was shot several times and taken to Holy Cross Hospital, where he was pronounced dead, police said.



The older teenager was shot in the right arm and the younger one was shot in the back, police said.

They were both taken to Comer Children’s Hospital in good condition.


No arrests have been made.

Just before midnight, a 15-year-old girl was shot on the West Side, police said. She and a 29-year-old man were standing on a sidewalk in the 4200 block of West Monroe Street in the West Garfield Park neighborhood when they heard gunshots, police said.


The man was shot in the calf and the girl was shot in the left knee, calf and shoulder, police said. They were both taken to Stroger Hospital in good condition.


No arrests have been made.
We know why you keep posting these, but I see it the other way around.
Should the police have been cracking down on peaceful protests or showing a unified, overwhelming force on Chicago's toughest neighborhoods?  

No, it's not a genuine either/or sentiment, but with all the ugliness we saw outside of the rioting, wouldn't that show of over-aggressive force have been more useful directed towards the real, troublesome criminals?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 13, 2020, 06:08:40 PM
We know why you keep posting these, but I see it the other way around.
Should the police have been cracking down on peaceful protests or showing a unified, overwhelming force on Chicago's toughest neighborhoods? 

No, it's not a genuine either/or sentiment, but with all the ugliness we saw outside of the rioting, wouldn't that show of over-aggressive force have been more useful directed towards the real, troublesome criminals?


They didn't crack down, and they were mostly not peaceful. Ask Alderman Lopez for this thoughts on the matter.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 13, 2020, 06:10:37 PM
If schools don't reopen, can we get a refund on the portion of our property taxes that goes to schools, and can we get the teachers to go on unemployment like others have had to?

Defund the teachers, so to speak? Blow up their unions, get rid of the stooge union bosses, and only hire the good ones back as non-union employees, subject to merit, like most of the rest of the working people?


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 13, 2020, 06:11:06 PM
They didn't crack down, and they were mostly not peaceful. Ask Alderman Lopez for this thoughts on the matter.
The peaceful protests weren't peaceful?  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 13, 2020, 06:11:34 PM
If schools don't reopen, can we get a refund on the portion of our property taxes that goes to schools, and can we get the teachers to go on unemployment like others have had to?

Yes, it'd be like giving many of us a raise anyway.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2020, 06:12:27 PM
I saw two protest marches here.  The police were escorting the marchers, who were a bit noisy but peaceful, the ones I saw.  I don't think the local police "cracked down" on peaceful marchers.

One could argue there were some incidents, like the four APDs who tazed and pulled a couple from their car.  I never understood why they did that and suspect perhaps there was something else not reported.  All those officers were black, and fired.

Maybe some police cracked down on peaceful protesters somewhere, I did see quite a bit of restraint on film where protesters were being rather aggressive and unpleasant.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 13, 2020, 06:16:14 PM
The peaceful protests weren't peaceful? 
In some areas, yes they were peaceful, and there were no problems with them. In other areas, peaceful protests grew into much more, and even those were allowed to continue - except in the downtown area, where the bridges were raised. The rest of the city burned.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 13, 2020, 06:20:15 PM
Yes, it'd be like giving many of us a raise anyway.
The average salary for Chicago teachers is roughly $71,150 per year. Mayor Lori Lightfoot has proposed a 16 percent pay increase over five years that would bring up teachers’ average salary to about $100,000 at the end.

Here is how the teachers’ salary would stack up by comparison when adjusted for cost of living in other large cities. In New York City, the average pay is $61,621, in Philadelphia it is $57,902, in Houston it is $40,480. At this point in negotiations for Chicago teachers, salary does not appear to be a big issue.

And then there is the pension problem...

BTW... $71,150 per 3/4 year => $94,866 per year.

I guess you need to move to Chiraq.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 13, 2020, 06:21:24 PM
In some areas, yes they were peaceful, and there were no problems with them. In other areas, peaceful protests grew into much more, and even those were allowed to continue - except in the downtown area, where the bridges were raised. The rest of the city burned.
Yeah, that's probably why I specified the peaceful ones.  If you're just going to go on a tangent every time I say something, I'm not sure why either of us keeps typing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 13, 2020, 06:23:26 PM
The average salary for Chicago teachers is roughly $71,150 per year. Mayor Lori Lightfoot has proposed a 16 percent pay increase over five years that would bring up teachers’ average salary to about $100,000 at the end.
Hey, Mr. Broken Record, READ WHAT I TYPE.

"Most of us" = most teachers in the United States of WTF.  You immediately post about Chicago teachers' salaries.  Now tell us all, are "most teachers in the U.S." the same as Chicago teachers?  

Can you have an honest conversation about anything?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 13, 2020, 06:24:11 PM
You should get a job at F__ N___.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 13, 2020, 06:32:06 PM
Should the police have been cracking down on peaceful protests or showing a unified, overwhelming force on Chicago's toughest neighborhoods? 
You posed this as an either/or question. The police DID NOT crack down on peaceful protests. They didn't crack down on the unpeaceful ones either.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 13, 2020, 06:35:03 PM
Hey, Mr. Broken Record, READ WHAT I TYPE.

"Most of us" = most teachers in the United States of WTF.  You immediately post about Chicago teachers' salaries.  Now tell us all, are "most teachers in the U.S." the same as Chicago teachers? 

Can you have an honest conversation about anything?

Here is Phoenix.

https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/public-school-teacher-salary/phoenix-az

 (https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/public-school-teacher-salary/phoenix-az)
Can you? For most of "you", unemployment would absolutely not be a raise. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 13, 2020, 06:35:52 PM
You should get a job at F__ N___.
That would be a pay cut.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 13, 2020, 06:45:56 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/f0POLUQ.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/EVk9RIy.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/kMzRWsh.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 13, 2020, 07:04:37 PM
Humans are remarkably adaptable to conditions.  I'd imagine folks in that neighborhood have friends and relatives nearby and likely are unable to find another place to live they can afford, or they would leave.  Those who can have, mostly, I'd imagine.
yep, I have friends and relatives near here of course.  I'm still wondering if I will leave in retirement for better weather.  I also suppose that the percentage of people killed is still very very small even in the toughest neighborhoods - perhaps similar to death rate of the virus.  It seems like it won't happen to me and my family.

if I was really concerned about my children being killed I'd walk out of there if that was my only option.  without regard to where I might end up, just knowing it had to be better than where I was. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 13, 2020, 07:36:44 PM
https://youtu.be/C8-B5cyfK6A
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 14, 2020, 12:17:54 AM
Well I'm going to make distinctions when I feel they need to be made.  Specifically, I've never even suggested that I'm embarrassed to be American.  I have, however, found a multitude of words and actions our leaders, groups, and other individuals in America that I deem embarrassing.

I see those as being 2 very different things.  If I'm in Rome, I'm not going to lie and say I'm Canadian.  I'm going to tell the truth and hopefully show that not all Americans worship Jesus, fireworks, and lottery tickets.  Now, most Americans don't, as we know, but that may be the caricature of us.

Shall I apologize for not being broad and messy?  Embarrassed perhaps?
That’s haughty talk for a guy who used to wear an orange wig and dance on the Jumbotron at football games.  But thanks for showing those snotty Europeans how sophisticated we can be.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 14, 2020, 12:21:42 AM
Talk about snotty, lol.  Someone needs a nap!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 14, 2020, 12:30:11 AM
Talk about snotty, lol.  Someone needs a nap!
It’s all in good fun. I genuinely like interacting with you. I disagree a shit ton with a lot of what you say but you crack me up.

I also need a tag team partner when these Big Ten guys start in with their bellyaching and conspiracy theories.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 14, 2020, 02:51:09 AM
Same here.  I can't stand some people here, but I love the interaction.  If I'm someone's Joker to their Batman, so be it.  Without me, what would they do?  

The worst thing this place could ever become is an echo chamber.  As long as we all keep sharing, nobody loses.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 14, 2020, 07:16:19 AM
It’s all in good fun. I genuinely like interacting with you. I disagree a shit ton with a lot of what you say but you crack me up.

I also need a tag team partner when these Big Ten guys start in with their bellyaching and conspiracy theories fight for equality
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 14, 2020, 07:17:35 AM
My wife is out of control.  She decided we wanted to build furniture.  She built a chair.  Then she built a love seat and a couch and tewo more chairs.  Then we bouth a little intex pool because we can't really go anywhere on vacation this year.  Then she built a deck that went around the pool.  Who is this lady?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 14, 2020, 07:30:25 AM
Norm Abrams great carpenter a little lean in the looks department

(https://i.imgur.com/tYYfYjq.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 14, 2020, 07:43:01 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/StAfObq.jpg)

Thankfully she hasn't started growing any facial hair
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2020, 07:50:32 AM
The wife has taken to playing mahjongg, on line.  She wants me to play.  I tell her I'm too busy.  Ha.

I used to know it would be a hot day when I used the AC in the car going to work.

It feels like summer here ...

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 14, 2020, 08:01:30 AM
I always find it amusing when Europeans are held up as some ideal for moral or ethical comparison.  I've found that the people who do that, generally haven't ever lived in Europe and have no idea what they're talking about.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 14, 2020, 08:15:01 AM
I always find it amusing when Europeans are held up as some ideal for moral or ethical comparison.  I've found that the people who do that, generally haven't ever lived in Europe and have no idea what they're talking about.
Testify 94 Testify 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2020, 08:53:53 AM
I always find it amusing when Europeans are held up as some ideal for moral or ethical comparison.  I've found that the people who do that, generally haven't ever lived in Europe and have no idea what they're talking about.


I've only visited of course, probably half a year in total, mostly France, and I agree.  They are thinner.  One thing that amazed me is how openly racist educated people can be en famile.  Really hateful and racist, they - many of them - are quite open about it in ways you would never see in the US (at least not with folks I hang with).  It isn't PC here, it is there, apparently.

They also smoke a lot, especially young females, to control weight.  College there is viewed as being more of a privilege than some expectations, only the upper third of students go to college (a bit more) versus over 2/3rds here.  They stream their kids in K-12 hard and once you are not college track, you are almost done.

Americans are far more egalitarian in their attitudes.  The French, in my experience, are far more stratified and focus on social status and rank.  They really look down on the lower classes, even the French farmers and whatnot.

I've noted before that folks I know there don't report crimes to the police, they have an extremely negative view of the local police.  They think they are worthless and tell me that if you report a crime you are viewed as the problem by making them extra work, and they won't seek the perps anyway.

Of course there are a lot of things to like about France, I like their zoning laws better than ours, and their education system is nationalized, which has advantages.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 14, 2020, 09:09:09 AM
My main takeaway from Europe was that it is Hell to drive anywhere but much more pleasant to walk around compared to the states
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 14, 2020, 09:13:34 AM
I've only visited of course, probably half a year in total, mostly France, and I agree.  They are thinner.  One thing that amazed me is how openly racist educated people can be en famile.  Really hateful and racist, they - many of them - are quite open about it in ways you would never see in the US (at least not with folks I hang with).  It isn't PC here, it is there, apparently.

They also smoke a lot, especially young females, to control weight.  College there is viewed as being more of a privilege than some expectations, only the upper third of students go to college (a bit more) versus over 2/3rds here.  They stream their kids in K-12 hard and once you are not college track, you are almost done.

Americans are far more egalitarian in their attitudes.  The French, in my experience, are far more stratified and focus on social status and rank.  They really look down on the lower classes, even the French farmers and whatnot.

I've noted before that folks I know there don't report crimes to the police, they have an extremely negative view of the local police.  They think they are worthless and tell me that if you report a crime you are viewed as the problem by making them extra work, and they won't seek the perps anyway.

Of course there are a lot of things to like about France, I like their zoning laws better than ours, and their education system is nationalized, which has advantages.



Yup, all of the above.  I'm not saying I don't like Europe or Europeans-- I actually love France and Italy, especially. 

But holding them up as some higher standard, is typically something that only people who've never spent any time there, will do.

They're no better than us when it comes to bigotry, racism, intolerance, and hatred.  And as you point out, in some ways they're much worse.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2020, 09:26:35 AM
A person can live their lives focusing on the negative things around them, and I have seen some "friends" do this, and it just makes them appear miserable.  They do get to feel superior to most others of course, which I suppose is part of the point, smug superiority versus those uneducated boorish heathens out there who have no savoir faire.

THOSE people shop wat WALMART, for crying out loud.  They really are that stupid and poor.  Umph.

I figure if one's sense of self worth is only strengthened by running down others constantly as being beneath them, there is a problem.

Balance in perspective is important, I think.  But it can be more difficult than painting everything black or white.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 14, 2020, 09:29:22 AM
You guys are spot on here. 

Oh, and I've never driven in Europe. When we were dotting around for a month or so, we trained it. The cities were all walkable, in general.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2020, 09:34:20 AM
Driving in Europe is not that much different than here, outside the major cities.  France and Belgium have some rules about which car has right of way different from ours, and you can't  turn right on red at all.  The county roads in France are "entertaining", as are the large multilane traffic circles.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 14, 2020, 09:42:19 AM
Driving in Europe is not that much different than here, outside the major cities.  France and Belgium have some rules about which car has right of way different from ours, and you can't  turn right on red at all.  The county roads in France are "entertaining", as are the large multilane traffic circles.
You like to drive though. I actually do not.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2020, 09:50:34 AM
Interesting.  I like to drive interesting roads with an interesting car.  Just driving a freeway from here to there, not so much.  I drove 100% last time we were in France because the rental car folks wanted 12 euros a day to put the wife on as driver.  The whole car was 12 euros a day.

I had drive into Paris a couple of times, we stayed overnight once.  The problem there was manifestations - protests - that had all the bridges shut down for hours.

I was getting annoyed.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 14, 2020, 09:50:46 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/StAfObq.jpg)

Thankfully she hasn't started growing any facial hair
She shames me. I couldn’t build a square box if my life depended on it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 14, 2020, 09:53:15 AM
She shames me. I couldn’t build a square box if my life depended on it.
Me too brother. I'm only useful to carry wood around for her
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 14, 2020, 09:55:45 AM
For all the stereotypes about Asian drivers, it takes more skill to drive safely over there than I think I have in me. I'd have a nervous breakdown trying to drive in Taipei. I don't think I could make it through a day without running over a half-dozen scooters. Then some of the other places where lanes are more "suggestions" than actual traffic control markings? Yeah... I'd be a wreck mentally long before causing a wreck physically. 

I was nervous enough just riding in a taxi when I've been over there. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 14, 2020, 09:58:14 AM
Good stuff Maxam. Back in the day, I was quite good at stuff like that. Really enjoyed it too, and probably still would. In fact, I know I still would. After a couple of back surgeries, it's just writing checks now. So, tell her to mind her back. You don't want to see her with the rods in there.

Mrs. 847 has the 2 level. Mine is the 3. Must have been something in our water.

(https://i.imgur.com/HWy6FkH.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 14, 2020, 10:00:21 AM
For all the stereotypes about Asian drivers, it takes more skill to drive safely over there than I think I have in me. I'd have a nervous breakdown trying to drive in Taipei. I don't think I could make it through a day without running over a half-dozen scooters. Then some of the other places where lanes are more "suggestions" than actual traffic control markings? Yeah... I'd be a wreck mentally long before causing a wreck physically.

I was nervous enough just riding in a taxi when I've been over there.
Rome is a little like that. Signals and markings are optional.

It's amazing to me how much different the drivers are in Florence and in Rome. In the former, they stop for walkers. In the latter, it's the opposite, and they like their horns.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2020, 10:23:55 AM
The French scooter and motorcycle drivers are pretty crazy.  I have to remember to adjust to that seriously, probably the biggest difference in driving here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 14, 2020, 10:43:45 AM
I love driving the country roads in Europe.

Driving in Paris was... terrifying.  At one point I came to a very old, weird intersection where 6 roads converged, and there was zero traffic regulation-- no stop signs, no yield signs, no traffic lights.  Lots of shouting and honking though.

I drove through a tiny town in Western France and the lane was so narrow that even driving half-on the sidewalk (which they commonly do) an oncoming driver took off my side mirror.  When I turned the car in at the end of my trip, I apologized and they told me no worries, it's common, didn't charge me or my insurance a dime for it.  

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2020, 10:50:02 AM
Many times I've been driving down a country lane wondering if I was going to proper way on this narrow one way lane only to meet another car.

Some of the blind "curves" are dicey, you blow your horn and roll down your window.

The step daughter lives on one such lane with a lot of those sharp blind turns.  

I smashed the side of a minivan in an underground parking lot in Fontainebleau once, caught a column while trying to avoid another one.

Things are tight.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 14, 2020, 11:09:04 AM
My buddy from Munich was driving us around rural Italy in his Cayenne Turbo. That was pretty exhilarating. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2020, 11:10:52 AM
My buddy with the Jag XKE convertible scared me driving the country lanes around where he lives.  He forgot to turn the engine fan on and it over heated when we got into town.  He said it was OK later.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 14, 2020, 11:17:24 AM
I'm calling bulljive, Mrs. Mayor. The uptick is the result of the failed bonding policy put in place by the State's attorney and Chief County Judge. These thugs know that if they are arrested, they'll be back on the street within hours.


According to statistics issued by the Chicago Police Department last week, shootings and murders jumped 75 percent in June compared to the same time in 2019, with 425 shootings this year compared to 242 last June.

City officials, including Mayor Lori Lightfoot, have pointed toward the ongoing coronavirus pandemic and subsequent lockdowns and shuttering of the economy as a contributing factor in the recent uptick.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on July 14, 2020, 11:26:40 AM
Rome is a little like that. Signals and markings are optional.

It's amazing to me how much different the drivers are in Florence and in Rome. In the former, they stop for walkers. In the latter, it's the opposite, and they like their horns.
When I was in Rome, I wouldn't drive. Just got an Uber and looked down at the floor until I got where I was going. 

Personally I wanted to drive and do a death race 2000 on the scooter drivers. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 14, 2020, 11:28:20 AM
In Rome we arrived at 1 AM, and caught a taxi to the hotel on empty freeways.

There were no other cars on the road, and I still feared for my life. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 14, 2020, 11:37:31 AM
If I were to move to Sicily, I think I'd just hide out in my little corner like I plan to do in Florida. Go fishing and stuff. 

Two good places to do fishing, for sure.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 14, 2020, 11:40:32 AM
I could see myself eventually moving to an island in the Caribbean and not going anywhere else again.  Hopefully my kids will visit... :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 14, 2020, 11:44:13 AM
If schools don't reopen, can we get a refund on the portion of our property taxes that goes to schools, and can we get the teachers to go on unemployment like others have had to?

Defund the teachers, so to speak? Blow up their unions, get rid of the stooge union bosses, and only hire the good ones back as non-union employees, subject to merit, like most of the rest of the working people?
There is an inherent conflict of interest with public-employee unions.  "Management" can't negotiate in good faith, because it is made up of elected officials who are dependent on political contributions to keep getting re-elected, which is the most important thing in the world for them.  And public-employee unions are generous to politicians they like and brutal toward those whom they don't like.
The true "owners" are the taxpayers, but nobody is representing their interests in the contract negotiations.
Even FDR did not support public-employee unions.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 14, 2020, 11:50:19 AM
Humans are remarkably adaptable to conditions.  I'd imagine folks in that neighborhood have friends and relatives nearby and likely are unable to find another place to live they can afford, or they would leave.  Those who can have, mostly, I'd imagine.
Some might say that it is the duty of those who are leaving to stay and keep their children in failing, dangerous schools rather than abandoning them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 14, 2020, 12:09:21 PM
For all the stereotypes about Asian drivers, it takes more skill to drive safely over there than I think I have in me. I'd have a nervous breakdown trying to drive in Taipei. I don't think I could make it through a day without running over a half-dozen scooters. Then some of the other places where lanes are more "suggestions" than actual traffic control markings? Yeah... I'd be a wreck mentally long before causing a wreck physically.

I was nervous enough just riding in a taxi when I've been over there.
I was stationed in Seoul for 12 months that ended just prior to the '88 Olympics.  I had a car.  I drove it carefully but not fearfully.  Seoul is a big, busy city.  It has some broad thoroughfares.  Sometimes/often 6 lanes would turn into 8 or 9, depending on how aggressive the drivers were on a particular day.
Koreans use wood-beaded car-seat covers like this.
(https://i.imgur.com/VtKqr3Q.jpg)

They look like they'd be uncomfortable, but they are not.  They work pretty well.
I liked Korea and the Koreans.  But they're more racist than we are.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on July 14, 2020, 12:21:09 PM
Upon arrival in Rome, we took a cab from Termini Station to our hotel on the north side of the Vatican complex. Between my first visit to Rome and the fact that our bags were sliding around in the back of the van, it was a scary cab ride even for me. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 14, 2020, 12:57:20 PM
Upon arrival in Rome, we took a cab from Termini Station to our hotel on the north side of the Vatican complex. Between my first visit to Rome and the fact that our bags were sliding around in the back of the van, it was a scary cab ride even for me.
We actually stayed close to the Termini both times we were there, and we walked everywhere we visited. Lots of miles went on the puppies in Rome.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 14, 2020, 01:07:56 PM
I liked Korea and the Koreans.  But they're more racist than we are.
You have a problem with that round eyes?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on July 14, 2020, 01:17:37 PM
https://babylonbee.com/news/heres-whats-problematic-with-each-of-the-nfls-32-team-names (https://babylonbee.com/news/heres-whats-problematic-with-each-of-the-nfls-32-team-names)

Change them all :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on July 14, 2020, 02:22:55 PM
We actually stayed close to the Termini both times we were there, and we walked everywhere we visited. Lots of miles went on the puppies in Rome.
Other than staying by Termini, that's how our trip went. We walked everywhere, even out to St Paul's Outside the Walls and St John Lateran. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 14, 2020, 02:39:54 PM
Norm Abrams great carpenter a little lean in the looks department

(https://i.imgur.com/tYYfYjq.jpg)
the wife stole his tools from the belt!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 14, 2020, 03:51:17 PM
You have a problem with that round eyes?
Not particularly.  Just noting it for the benefit of anyone who thinks that all the racism in the world exists south of the 49th parallel, north of the Rio Grande, and on land between west of the Atlantic and east of the Pacific.
The Washington Post published a study on worldwide racism a couple of years ago.  We--the United States of America--were in the "least racist" category.
Which is not to say that we don't need to get better, because we do.  There's always room for improvement.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 14, 2020, 03:54:56 PM
https://babylonbee.com/news/heres-whats-problematic-with-each-of-the-nfls-32-team-names (https://babylonbee.com/news/heres-whats-problematic-with-each-of-the-nfls-32-team-names)

Change them all :)
Funny!

I've seen some funny outrage in response to the satire in the Babylon Bee.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on July 14, 2020, 04:05:54 PM
Funny!

I've seen some funny outrage in response to the satire in the Babylon Bee.
It was funny when snopes fact checked them and basically even though it is Satire said it was untrue and was presented as facts. Can't remember the article, but how stupid, fact check satire.  Babylon Bee has fired back by doing a whole series of satirical articles on Snopes. 

And I can't count the number of time I have seen people post one of their article and expressed outrage. Between Babylon Bee and The Onion, there is probably at least one article a day that gets passed around as factual. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 14, 2020, 04:10:00 PM
The Washington Post published a study on worldwide racism a couple of years ago.  We--the United States of America--were in the "least racist" category.
I'd like to see what their study would look like today. Probably a lot different.

But, I do believe it's true that we as a country are far better than some other places I've been to.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 14, 2020, 04:11:46 PM
I liked Korea and the Koreans.  But they're more racist than we are.
Out of curiosity, who were they most racist against? 

I think that Korea has historical/cultural/geographical reasons to basically be prejudiced against both the Chinese and the Japanese. A lot of old wounds and mistrust there. 

I also think that people from "northern" Asia commonly harbor racism towards people from "southern" Asia, i.e. the Thai, Laotian, Cambodian, Vietnamese, Malay, etc. There are some who think Southeast Asians are lesser. 

I haven't seen a lot of outright racism against Euro or American folks from the Koreans I've known... Although when I was drinking until 3 AM with the sales/FAE team from Korea in Vegas at a work convention it might have been because we were all hammered and they were impressed I had a second degree black belt in Hapkido and could count to 10 in Korean... So maybe I'm just "one of the good ones" lol...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 14, 2020, 04:51:58 PM
Donald Trump crediting Tommy Tuberville for “Lou” Saban’s career might have Alabama voting blue

(https://golfdigest.sports.sndimg.com/content/dam/images/golfdigest/fullset/2020/07/DonaldTrump_NickSaban_Social.jpg.rend.hgtvcom.966.644.suffix/1594742041046.jpeg)

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/donald-trump-crediting-tommy-tuberville-for--lou--saban-s-career?utm_medium=email&utm_source=071420&utm_campaign=hitlist (https://www.golfdigest.com/story/donald-trump-crediting-tommy-tuberville-for--lou--saban-s-career?utm_medium=email&utm_source=071420&utm_campaign=hitlist)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2020, 05:03:23 PM
And I can't count the number of time I have seen people post one of their article and expressed outrage. Between Babylon Bee and The Onion, there is probably at least one article a day that gets passed around as factual.
You mean they aren't factual?  Huh.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 14, 2020, 05:06:13 PM
Out of curiosity, who were they most racist against?

I think that Korea has historical/cultural/geographical reasons to basically be prejudiced against both the Chinese and the Japanese. A lot of old wounds and mistrust there.

I also think that people from "northern" Asia commonly harbor racism towards people from "southern" Asia, i.e. the Thai, Laotian, Cambodian, Vietnamese, Malay, etc. There are some who think Southeast Asians are lesser.

I haven't seen a lot of outright racism against Euro or American folks from the Koreans I've known... Although when I was drinking until 3 AM with the sales/FAE team from Korea in Vegas at a work convention it might have been because we were all hammered and they were impressed I had a second degree black belt in Hapkido and could count to 10 in Korean... So maybe I'm just "one of the good ones" lol...
They hate the Japanese most, that is for sure.  So much so that my friend could hardly say the word for "Japanese" without curling his lip.  And the word itself sounds ugly--"Il-bon."  I don't think that there's even a connotation of "people" in that term.  As I recall, "saram" is "people.  Americans are "Mi-guk-saram."

They have a love-hate sort of thing with China.  I remember hearing a joke about a Korean, a Japanese, and a Chinese being put in the same dungeon.  I can't remember the gist of it, but the bottom line was that after some number of days or weeks, both the Japanese and the Korean pleaded that they would gladly stay in the dungeon if the authorities would just take the Chinese guy out.  OTHO, they are to a significant degree proud to be part of "Chinese culture."
They don't like mixed-race people.  I had a U.S. Army officer who was part Japanese, part Chinese, and part native Hawaiian as a roommate for about 6 months, and my colleague and friend Captain Hahn (ROKA) really had to work to consider the "Asian mutt" as something acceptable.
They don't like it when Korean women marry American GIs, most particularly if the American GI is black.  Maybe they picked up that last part from us.  That's one of those things that it's hard to ask a Korean friend about because he probably won't admit it and probably wouldn't know the answer if he would admit it.
The Japanese still discriminate against Koreans.  It didn't end in 1945.  And the Japanese even discriminate against Okinawans (who are legally Japanese) too.
I didn't encounter ill feelings towards South Asians, but then the subject never came up.  So I have no knowledge one way or the other on that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 14, 2020, 10:47:34 PM
Not particularly.  Just noting it for the benefit of anyone who thinks that all the racism in the world exists south of the 49th parallel, north of the Rio Grande, and on land between west of the Atlantic and east of the Pacific.
The Washington Post published a study on worldwide racism a couple of years ago.  We--the United States of America--were in the "least racist" category.
Which is not to say that we don't need to get better, because we do.  There's always room for improvement.
Sarcasm CWS,I mean you're going to start taking me serious now unless of course we're talikng about the Egg Lobby
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 14, 2020, 11:28:03 PM
Don't worry, MrNubbz, I always figure you've got your tongue planted firmly in your cheek.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 15, 2020, 12:16:16 AM
American egg farmers approved the creation of the American Egg Board in a 1975 referendum. It was created by the Egg Research and Promotion Order pursuant to the Egg Research and Consumer Information Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Egg_Research_and_Consumer_Information_Act&action=edit&redlink=1) of 1974.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Egg_Board#cite_note-2)[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Egg_Board#cite_note-3) A referendum was conducted November 3–28, 1975, by the Agricultural Marketing Service (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_Marketing_Service) and seventy-three percent of eligible producers approved the program.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Egg_Board#cite_note-4) The Egg Board established by the order became the American Egg Board beginning July 9, 1976.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Egg_Board#cite_note-5)
In 1977, American egg farmers also began work on an advertising campaign to increase demand for eggs – its first television commercial began airing in 1977, touting the nutritional benefits as "The Incredible, Edible Egg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Incredible,_Edible_Egg)" featuring actor James Hampton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hampton_(actor)).[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Egg_Board#cite_note-6) In 1993, the American Egg Board launched a new advertising campaign called "I Love Eggs", in which the campaign ran from 1993 to 1997. In 1998, the American Egg Board launched another advertising campaign called "If it ain't eggs, it ain't breakfast, I love eggs".
The American Egg Board also promotes the many facets of egg products and the unique functionalities they contribute to many packaged food products. The term ‘egg products’ refers to processed and convenience forms of eggs for foodservice and food manufacturers. These products can be classified as refrigerated liquid, frozen, dried, and pre-cooked products. Additionally, the American Egg Board also works with foodservice professionals to keep eggs on top of evolving food trends, emerging consumer needs and changing competitive landscapes.[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Egg_Board#cite_note-7)
Suppression of free marketplace[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=American_Egg_Board&action=edit&section=3)]
In 2008, The Egg Board tried to funnel $3 million to a private lobbying organization, attempting to overturn a California ballot measure which would prohibit the extreme confinement of farm animals. This unlawful coordination with an advocacy group was stopped by an injunction issued by a federal court.[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Egg_Board#cite_note-8)
Anti-competitive marketing tactics have also been displayed by the Egg Board in their involvement to get government retailers and regulators to participate in the halting of sales for Just Mayo brand products. The USDA found emails by the Egg Board threatening to put a “hit” CEO Josh Tetrick of Hampton Creek, the company that produces Just Mayo brand products.[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Egg_Board#cite_note-9)


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 15, 2020, 12:19:29 AM
It's no joke.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 15, 2020, 07:22:01 AM
Lobbying should not be permitted, at all.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 15, 2020, 07:32:27 AM
Lobbying is hard to separate from free speech.

I don't know how it could be banned.

And of course the fact that egg farmers band together to market their product is not unexpected.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 15, 2020, 07:38:16 AM
If you're getting paid for it, you're a lobbyist. If you're getting paid for it, you're not allowed in the building.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 15, 2020, 07:55:21 AM
Of course, the term "lobbyist" comes from the lobby of the Williard Hotel.  They don't have to be in the actual Capitol Building.

I've mentioned before how I was peripherally involved in a lobbying effort on patent stuff.  The point was to try and educate our Congressman on that topic.  It wasn't political.  The Congressmen generally don't know very much about much of anything.

Anyway, I don't think lobbying could be ended in any practicable sense.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 15, 2020, 08:17:54 AM
It's no joke. 
It's not why we eat eggs as you asserted a month back.Probably because they were a healthy source of protein and relatively cheap and good tasting.Down on the farm my Uncle/Aunt/cousins ate them pretty much every day
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 15, 2020, 08:30:18 AM
I'm going to have Pho pho breakfast today, when I'm hungry.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 15, 2020, 08:35:07 AM
How did we get back on the egg lobby? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 15, 2020, 08:40:01 AM
I'm going to have Pho pho breakfast today, when I'm hungry.
It's very appropriate breakfast food.  My native-Vietnamese work partner in my first job out of undergrad, said that pho is what her parents would make for their big breakfast on Sunday mornings.  They were fairly poor and it was the one time per week they weren't eating small simple meals of rice and vegetables.  Her favorite proteins in pho were bible tripe and soft tendon.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 15, 2020, 08:46:09 AM
How did we get back on the egg lobby?
Someone may have felt embarrassed, and rather than just letting it be forgotten ....

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 15, 2020, 08:46:59 AM
I dunno, maybe some folks here would be shocked to learn that just about every area of significant product sales to us has some kind of "board" to advance sales of those products, or at least many of them.  I'm sure there is a milk board, for example.  This is probably more true when said product has been attacked by some as being "bad for us".  Maybe there is a chocolate board?

Cheese, yogurt, all dairy, I would guess, have some kind of collective marketing board saying "Got Milk?" or somesuch.

"Beef, it's what's for dinner"....  "Pork, it's the other white meat" ...  "Chicken, it tastes like chicken!" ....  "Fish, it's good for what ails you." ....

I don't recall there being a paper towel board, of shampoo board, but maybe there is, those items are less "public" than most in their imagery.  Plastics?  I bet there is some kind of marketing group fanning the sales and imagery of plastics.  It's the future you know.

I've seen Exxon advertising the merits of fuel from algae, which technically is absurd, it's just a PR campaign, but that is just that company, it's an example of how commercial enterprises attempt to influence us, I view it as PR.  We did a lot of it where I worked, and when I was on the fringes of it it was rather painful for me.

I tried to note how the storyline made no sense, and it didn't, but that was not THE POINT.  They didn't want truth, they wanted IMAGERY.

And that specific public issue went whoosh a few years later, not long (landfills filling up with diapers).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 15, 2020, 08:48:49 AM
Yesterday was my i s c & a aggie wife and my 19th anniversary, and normally we go out to a fancy schmancy restaurant to celebrate.  Most of those are still closed, so we got take-out sushi instead.  That's the first time I've ever had take-out sushi, and it was actually pretty great.  We picked it up, threw it in a cooler with ice packs to keep it cool for the drive home, and it turned out well.  

There were no eggs in any of our dishes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 15, 2020, 08:50:34 AM
The Kroger near us has pretty decent sushi.  The one in Cincy near us was mediocre to the point I rarely got it, the one here is pretty solid.  

There also is a Shell filling station that has excellent day old sushi.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: TyphonInc on July 15, 2020, 08:50:52 AM
Of course, the term "lobbyist" comes from the lobby of the Williard Hotel.  They don't have to be in the actual Capitol Building.

I've mentioned before how I was peripherally involved in a lobbying effort on patent stuff.  The point was to try and educate our Congressman on that topic.  It wasn't political.  The Congressmen generally don't know very much about much of anything.

Anyway, I don't think lobbying could be ended in any practicable sense.

Do all the lobbying above the board. Lobbyist who want to sell their product (excuse me...educate our government) can buy commercial time that everyone is aware of how much they spent and for how much time they get to interact with a politician.

I would love adopt the model where no funds can be used, but that's how the dirty market started in the first place. So instead show the world their greed.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 15, 2020, 08:55:50 AM
I don't believe in breakfast food, lunch food or dinner food. If I want beef for breakfast, I don't care if some clown told me it's what's for dinner. I really don't want lunch meat at lunch time. WTF is lunch meat? Salt with some sort of protein added to it?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 15, 2020, 08:57:34 AM
I don't think Congress could operate without lobbyists, truly, from what I've seen of them.  Their staff needs a lot of help and most issues.  The laws they pass often don't have a political angle, and those don't make headlines of course.  Even so, today many laws just shift responsibility to the executive branch to do stuff, which generates large organizations etc. that actually interpret and implement the laws, which are pretty vague and leave it to the EPA etc. to figure out what was wanted.

And of course, if the term were somehow banned, companies would hire "consultants" to meet with the Congressional staff and "explain" their view, and even specific portions of legislation to be inserted into some bill.  Obviously, the actual congressperson doesn't write anything at all, his staff does, and they often rely on a lobbyist to provide the text.

It's going to happen no matter what.  And if you tried to ban it, all the lobbyists would be against it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 15, 2020, 09:01:05 AM
My breakfast today usually is some mix the wife grinds up in her nutribullet.  I don't mind.  

About once a week, I fix English muffins with a fried egg on top, she likes that on occasion.  If we go to brunch, last time I had something called avocado on toast.

Lunch usually is whatever was left over from dinner.  Dinner is whatever I feel like.

The dietary cholesterol thing was mangled rather badly over the years as "advice", which isn't a shock.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 15, 2020, 09:08:42 AM
Has been a warm week here, but humidity thankfully has been "relatively" low.

I'm supposed to go with the wife to get a haircut by her "stylist" or whatever he is while she has hers colored.

Maybe we'll do lunch after that somewhere.  I haven't had Korean in an age.

I tweaked my knee, my hamstring I think, and am trying to rest it a bit.  A lot of swelling in the lower leg area.  I'm getting old.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 15, 2020, 10:13:43 AM
A 16-year-old boy was inside his Far South Side home when he heard shots and then felt pain Tuesday night, according to Chicago police.

He was shot in leg and foot from someone outside the home, the boy told police. The shooting occurred at 9:45 p.m. in the 10600 block of South Yates Avenue in the Trumbull Park neighborhood, police said.

A 15-year-old boy was walking alone near Grant Park Wednesday night when an argument broke out between two groups of males nearby and someone started firing shots, one grazing the boy’s face, according to Chicago police.

Police officers responded to a call of multiple shots fired about 10:30 p.m. in the 1100 block of South Michigan Avenue in the South Loop, police said. Witness told officers that they heard shots then saw five males running from the area. Officers originally couldn’t find a victim.

A 19-year-old woman and two girls, 16 and 13, were shot Tuesday night outside of the 79th Red Line station on the South Side, according to Chicago police.

About 8:45 p.m., the woman and teenagers were standing on the sidewalk in the 0-100 block of West 79th Street in the Chatham neighborhood when a silver sedan approached them and someone inside began firing shots, police said.

No arrests have been made.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 15, 2020, 12:32:46 PM
Yesterday was my i s c & a aggie wife and my 19th anniversary, and normally we go out to a fancy schmancy restaurant to celebrate.  Most of those are still closed, so we got take-out sushi instead.  That's the first time I've ever had take-out sushi, and it was actually pretty great.  We picked it up, threw it in a cooler with ice packs to keep it cool for the drive home, and it turned out well. 

There were no eggs in any of our dishes.
Congrats on your anniversary, Utee.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 15, 2020, 12:37:32 PM
I don't think Congress could operate without lobbyists, truly, from what I've seen of them.  Their staff needs a lot of help and most issues.  The laws they pass often don't have a political angle, and those don't make headlines of course.  Even so, today many laws just shift responsibility to the executive branch to do stuff, which generates large organizations etc. that actually interpret and implement the laws, which are pretty vague and leave it to the EPA etc. to figure out what was wanted.

And of course, if the term were somehow banned, companies would hire "consultants" to meet with the Congressional staff and "explain" their view, and even specific portions of legislation to be inserted into some bill.  Obviously, the actual congressperson doesn't write anything at all, his staff does, and they often rely on a lobbyist to provide the text.

It's going to happen no matter what.  And if you tried to ban it, all the lobbyists would be against it.
Free speech, baby!
And the right to petition for redress of grievances.
Laws mandating that all political contributions be made public were used in the South back in the day to expose anyone donating to the NAACP.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 15, 2020, 01:22:24 PM
It's no joke. 
but it's funny
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 15, 2020, 01:26:22 PM
It's not why we eat eggs as you asserted a month back.Probably because they were a healthy source of protein and relatively cheap and good tasting.Down on the farm my Uncle/Aunt/cousins ate them pretty much every day
Dude,

It was about eating eggs in the morning for breakfast.  The egg lobby didn't want folks eating steaks and pasta and burgers for breakfast.

Sausage and bacon were OK, cause they compliment eggs.
Heck, the Egg lobby is so strong there are now folks eating eggs on their burgers!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 15, 2020, 01:28:22 PM
Kroger has 5 cans of almonds for $10, and their pecans are on sale also.  The also have Goldfish 5 for $5, but I don't have an aquarium.

My knee is seems better, I bought a fancy brace for it and am trying not to torque it.  We have spiral stairs in the unit, two sets, and I learned how better to place my leg so I don't twist it.  My foot is ugly, the wife can't seem to understand that it will be ugly long after my knee has recovered (hamstring by the knee I think).

The wife had raw hamburger last night for dinner (yes, with an egg, I was looking around for the egg lobby), they gave it some fancy schmancy name.  My mom would not have approved.  Tartar something, they even call it steak, but it's hamburger, raw.  Of course, I had moules et pomme frites, so I was adventurous as well.

I half thought moule would be a blind furry animal the French like to eat.

Some gnats were enamored with my ears for some reason, quite annoying.  One good thing about a deck fairly high up is you don't get many bugs.

Deer are amazing, they can winter in Ohio below zero with nothing to eat and then stand out in 95°F heat, same animal.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 15, 2020, 01:31:25 PM
Free speech, baby!
And the right to petition for redress of grievances.
Laws mandating that all political contributions be made public were used in the South back in the day to expose anyone donating to the NAACP.
I don't care how much money the lobbyist spend, as long as it's not going into the pocket of an elected official or a family member as a bribe.
you know, like how Cam Newton's father got paid
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 15, 2020, 01:32:12 PM
Dude,

It was about eating eggs in the morning for breakfast.  The egg lobby didn't want folks eating steaks and pasta and burgers for breakfast.
Sausage and bacon were OK, cause they compliment eggs.
Heck, the Egg lobby is so strong there are now folks eating eggs on their burgers!
Can you put them on top of Lucky Charms or a Schooner of Suds?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 15, 2020, 01:34:49 PM

My knee is seems better, I bought a fancy brace for it and am trying not to torque it.  We have spiral stairs in the unit, two sets, and I learned how better to place my leg so I don't twist it.  My foot is ugly, the wife can't seem to understand that it will be ugly long after my knee has recovered (hamstring by the knee I think).

is the brace infused with copper?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 15, 2020, 01:35:57 PM

Can you put them on top of Lucky Charms or a Schooner of Suds?
I've dropped a raw egg in a schooner of suds and drank it


but, that was just to show off
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 15, 2020, 01:36:31 PM
No copper, but took me a while to figure out how to put it on.  I'm wearing it now.

We're going to the pool in a bit, maybe I'll apply some Coppertone to it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 15, 2020, 01:48:32 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cNGfHEhtng (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cNGfHEhtng)

Tanks.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 15, 2020, 01:50:06 PM
leave it on the Big 12 board
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 15, 2020, 01:51:17 PM
So, it just started raining here, no pool for a bit, maybe I can post some tank videos.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 15, 2020, 02:33:24 PM
I have some fixes in mind for this problem. I'm having (one last) lunch with my local state rep next week to present my thoughts. If there is one thing I know about him, it's that he's big on community-based solutions. He's a small-government guy, to the core.

I hate that Toni Taxwinkle had to play the race card. She just can't stop herself.

So.. FIX THIS!!

*****************

Cook County is grappling with twice the amount of reported opioid-related deaths compared with this period last year, the medical examiner’s office announced Tuesday amid skyrocketing caseloads during the coronavirus outbreak.

In 2020, the county’s deaths ruled as opioid overdoses are on track to double last year’s total number of opioid-related cases, the chief medical examiner, Dr. Ponni Arunkumar, said at a Tuesday news conference. The fatalities, similar to those from the coronavirus and gun violence crises, are disproportionately affecting Black people, she added. The majority stem from Chicago’s West Side neighborhoods.

Cook County Board President Toni Preckwinkle said the briefing was convened “to sound the alarm” as the three overlapping epidemics devastate the county’s most vulnerable populations.

“This year continues to illuminate the dangerous consequences we face as a result of centuries — centuries — of racial inequity,” Preckwinkle said. “The victims of the opioid epidemic have been quietly dying around us. We must be their voice to prevent future, needless, preventable deaths plaguing our community.”

Between Jan. 1 and Monday, 773 opioid overdose deaths were logged in Cook County, with 580 more pending cases, Arunkumar said. Given that about 70% to 80% of pending cases are ruled as opioid-related, that means about 1,200 such deaths are expected to be tallied for that time period, Arunkumar said.

Last year, there were 605 opioid overdose deathsfrom Jan. 1 to July 13, and by the end of the year, 1,267 cases were confirmed to be opioid-related, Arunkumar said. That number was 1,148 in 2018.

Out of the confirmed 773 cases so far this year, 63% of the victims were Black and/or Latino, with 45- to 55-year-old males most likely to die from an overdose, Arunkumar said. Fentanyl, an exponentially deadlier synthetic opioid, was blamed for the majority of cases.


“The numbers tell a grim story,” Arunkumar said about the opioid overdose deaths. “We’ll never get used to the tragedy that each death represents.”

While more analysis needs to be done on the coronavirus pandemic’s effects on opioid deaths, officials worry that the isolation and health scares are keeping people experiencing overdoses from seeking help. Emergency department volumes have decreased since the pandemic started, said Dr. Steven Aks, division chair of emergency medicine and toxicology at Cook County Health.

“What we’d like to say is that it’s safe here. That’s the most important message,” Aks said. “This is extremely alarming with respect to the opioid overdoses. Because for each EMS run that a paramedic brings a patient to the hospital, if they make it to our care they will likely live.”

As Cook County Health emergency room visits related to opioid overdoses remained stagnant, Chicago reported a swell in EMS visits related to opioid overdoses, according to a department of public health alert. From the beginning of the year to the end of May, EMS responses went up about 67% compared with the same time in 2019.


Dr. Kiran Joshi, senior medical officer at the Cook County Department of Public Health, said a key solution is partnering with law enforcement to “blanket” communities with naloxone, the medication used to reverse opioid overdoses, because the current levels are not “nearly enough.”

On top of the opioid overdose cases, the medical examiner’s office has had to contend with spikes in gun violence homicides this year as well as the surge of deaths from the novel coronavirus. The three crises are pushing the office’s caseload to top 9,000 in the coming days — compared with 6,274 cases in all of 2019, Arunkumar said.

“Desperation and hopelessness” are the underlying causes behind the coinciding upswings in gun violence and opioid-related deaths in Cook County, Preckwinkle said.


“Those are similar causes,” Preckwinkle said. “If you look at opioid deaths and if you look at shootings and murders, you overlay them, right, it’s the same community.”

The medical examiner’s office at first attributed this year’s tidal wave of cases to the coronavirus outbreak, but after digging through the numbers, staffers realized opioid overdoses also were ballooning, Arunkumar said. She added that her office, which investigates certain cases out of the annual 40,000-or-so deaths in Cook County, such as unnatural deaths, are “by and large preventable.”
“While we concentrate on our mission to establish the cause and manner of death for cases that fall under our jurisdiction, we do not accept that they had to occur,” Arunkumar said.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 15, 2020, 03:00:29 PM
sad
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 15, 2020, 03:29:14 PM
sad
China.

Marco Werman: Fentanyl is such a dangerous and fatal piece of the opioid crisis here in the US. Right now, as of July 2019, where's it coming from, which countries?

Scott Stewart: We're seeing some fentanyl sent directly from China to the US, primarily in the flow of commerce, stuff that's coming in that's being purchased on the dark web. In this dynamic, we'll have fairly pure fentanyl sent by mail to dealers who will then cut it into either fake narcotic pills or they will cut it into fake heroin. Then also we have organized crime groups that are trafficking it into the country through Mexico and then we also see some of it coming in through Canada from Asian organized crime groups.

With fentanyl coming to the US via Mexico, what's happening to it in Mexico before it gets brought into the US?

Well, we're kind of seeing two sources there. Some of it is coming in directly from China that's already made and manufactured, but then we're also seeing the precursor chemicals come into Mexico and then the Mexican cartels are synthesizing fentanyl in their labs. It's actually an easier drug to synthesize than methamphetamine. So, these Mexican super labs are pretty well-positioned, both in terms of their supply chain to China but also their ability to synthesize the drug due to their experience in the methamphetamine trade.

Trace the route for us for fentanyl as it leaves Mexico and comes to the US. How does it get here? Who's delivering it and who's it delivered to?

What we're seeing is that they're pretty much piggy-backing onto the infrastructure that they've established and long had established for other drugs coming into the US. Especially the synthetic drug organizations, such as Sinaloa, are using a lot of the same labs and infrastructure to smuggle the drugs into the US that they've used for methamphetamine. Also, we see a lot of parallel into the Mexican cartels that have really cornered the heroin market in the United States. So, we're seeing fentanyl being also pushed in that same supply chain up into the US and then down to street distributors.

What do you think makes fentanyl the drug of interest currently from Mexican cartels?

There are really several factors that make it really an ideal drug for these organized crime groups. One is that it's cheap to produce. We're seeing estimates coming from the DEA that it costs between $1,400 to $3,000 a kilo to produce. Of course, they can then turn around and sell that retail for over a million dollars on the street.

How does that compare to heroin, for example?

It's much more lucrative. So, essentially, smuggling one kilogram of fentanyl is roughly the equivalent of smuggling 50 kilograms of heroin into the US.

What are the other reasons Mexican cartels all seem to like this?

It doesn't have a growing season like opium poppies do. You don't need a lot of land to cultivate it, like you do opium poppies. Basically, you can fabricate or synthesize it any place that you have the chemicals available. It's also compact to smuggle. It's lucrative, compact, easy to make and easy to smuggle. It really is a dream drug for Mexican organized crime.

Which country do you think is the bigger threat at this point in terms of fentanyl flooding the US, China or Mexico?

It's really a combination of all of the above. I think that, like the methamphetamine trade, everything goes back to these precursor chemicals that are predominantly coming out of China. But certainly, the Mexicans then have the ability to really crank out and then smuggle huge quantities of this drug. I don't want to downplay the mail-order dark-web model. It is resulting in deaths and certainly, just a few grams or an ounce of fentanyl that is very pure coming in from China can kill a lot of people. But we compare that to these shipments of 100 kilos or 70 kilos that we're seeing coming in from Mexico and we can see that the Mexicans are really flooding the market with fentanyl in a way that the Chinese can't do directly by mail.

Why do the precursor chemicals for fentanyl come solely, it seems, from China?

I think a lot of that just goes back to the difficulty of controlling all these factories and the number of them that there are in China. That goes back to the history of the methamphetamine trade, too. Initially, we saw a lot of the meth chemicals coming out of India. The DEA basically approached both India and China and asked them to clamp down on the trade. The Indians were able to largely do so. Unfortunately, the Chinese have not been able to. Of course, I think the problem still remains larger than that, though. There are other places that can produce fentanyl or the precursor chemicals — countries like North Korea, who see illicit drug markets as a way to raise much-needed foreign capital. Even if we were able to somehow magically shut down the flow of precursors from China, these organizations would still be able to get other chemicals or find the precursors elsewhere.

You spend a lot of your time researching and writing about drug cartels and the opioid epidemic in the US. What keeps you up at night? What are you most worried about?

As I've been looking more closely at fentanyl lately, I really believe that there's a misunderstanding out there across the world that sees fentanyl as being a North American problem. That it's basically just an issue for the Americans and Canadians to deal with. But I believe that the very same factors that make fentanyl attractive for the Mexican cartels also make it attractive for other organized crime groups across the globe that are involved in the illicit opiate trades. Balkan organized crime groups, Russian organized crime groups, and even organized crime groups that are selling things like counterfeit tramadol across the Middle East and Africa.

What is that product you just described?

Tramadol is actually an opiate pill. It's weaker but somewhat similar to our oxycodone that we've seen in the US and I believe that is going to be a similar gateway drug for illicit fentanyl pills the same way that we saw illicit fentanyl pills coming in for the oxycodone in the United States.

Is there strong evidence already that it is getting the attention of organized crime in Italy, Russia and in the Balkans?

Right now what we're seeing is, you know, in places like Australia, the UK, parts of Europe and even in Estonia, there's been an increase in fentanyl use. Right now, it seems to be mostly that dark web mail-order type trade but I believe that we're going to see these organized crime groups try to assume control of that market and then increase it. These same organizations already control the heroin trade in much the way the Mexicans have kind of cornered the heroin trade in North America. I think they're going to follow the same path that we've seen the Mexicans use in North America in these other parts of the world.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity. Reuters contributed to this report.



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 15, 2020, 04:30:57 PM
FORE!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 15, 2020, 08:29:07 PM
It's very appropriate breakfast food.  
Every food is an appropriate breakfast food, because it's all just food.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 15, 2020, 08:30:48 PM
I dunno, maybe some folks here would be shocked to learn that just about every area of significant product sales to us has some kind of "board" to advance sales of those products, or at least many of them.  
Yes, but eggs are inventing a food type to be eaten at a certain time of day.  Just conjuring it.  And it must stop!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 15, 2020, 08:31:31 PM
I don't believe in breakfast food, lunch food or dinner food. If I want beef for breakfast, I don't care if some clown told me it's what's for dinner. I really don't want lunch meat at lunch time. WTF is lunch meat? Salt with some sort of protein added to it?
We need more of you.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 15, 2020, 08:33:19 PM
Heck, the Egg lobby is so strong there are now folks eating eggs on their burgers!
They're out of control!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 15, 2020, 08:42:19 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cNGfHEhtng (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cNGfHEhtng)

Tanks.
Panzer MARK IV
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 15, 2020, 09:07:26 PM
Tanks are useless vs the egg lobby!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 15, 2020, 09:51:59 PM


I'm supposed to go with the wife to get a haircut by her "stylist" or whatever he is while she has hers colored.


Wait. 

You get your hair cut... 

...by a man? 

:57:


(https://tv-fanatic-res.cloudinary.com/iu/s--mZAaN-zl--/t_large_l/cs_srgb,f_auto,fl_strip_profile.lossy,q_auto:420/v1371176148/the-note-picture.png)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2020, 09:08:59 AM
Yup.  I usually go to Great Clips.  This guy was out of work for quite some time and has a limited schedule now because he has to clean between each visit.

I think he does a better job cleaning.  And if the wife gets it, I'll get it anyway.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 16, 2020, 09:10:23 AM
smart
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 16, 2020, 09:17:05 AM
Well, as long as you don't "think it moved..." 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2020, 09:21:01 AM
Panzer MARK IV
Yeah, I lean to that one at times too, especially the J version.  The Germans, and Hitler in particular, got enthralled with giganticism, they had an aircraft carrier almost finished by 1944, for no reason I could discern.  They designed and built overly complex expensive tanks instead of more competent tanks, but as soneome noted, they were running short of fuel and manpower, so a reliable Panther was perhaps their best tank, once it became somewhat reliable.

The "King" Tiger was sort of pointless I think.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 16, 2020, 10:11:27 AM
Trouble brewing in Chicago. Teacher's Union is demanding remote learning only. This comes after the CPS admin committed to their previous demands for safe transportation and having a nurse in every school. Give them and inch.

So far, every Mayor has bent over for the union, including the current mayor. Taxpayers are the ones who take it, eventually. 

I think we're see more "stay home and stay stoned" this Fall, in Chicago and Illinois.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 16, 2020, 10:17:02 AM


I bet that Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot gets her haircut by a dude.



(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/ZM15C2wWuheVQ5cxdw5wlcno49Q=/0x0:5759x3839/1200x800/filters:focal(2420x1460:3340x2380)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/66617487/LIGHTFOOT_120319_01.0.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 16, 2020, 10:23:16 AM

I bet that Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot gets her haircut by IS a dude.



(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/ZM15C2wWuheVQ5cxdw5wlcno49Q=/0x0:5759x3839/1200x800/filters:focal(2420x1460:3340x2380)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/66617487/LIGHTFOOT_120319_01.0.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 16, 2020, 10:51:47 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pE10LS4TEc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pE10LS4TEc)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on July 16, 2020, 12:25:07 PM
Follow the money.  Being top 20 in the nation = good.  Being in the same division as half of the top six, including 3 of the top 4 outside of the state of Texas = problem

https://twitter.com/RossDellenger/status/1283764494435602432?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 16, 2020, 12:39:48 PM
Those are staggering numbers. Holy crap.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2020, 12:41:26 PM
So, I got pulled over by a lady cop.  She told me to exit the vehicle, which I did, but I stumbled a bit getting out.  She said I was staggering.  I told her she was pretty cute herself.

I need bail money.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 16, 2020, 12:47:59 PM
UW is going to have some black "W" logos incorporated into the uniforms moving forward.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2020, 01:03:05 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/16/warren-buffett-reaps-40-billion-from-giant-apple-stake-since-march-bottom.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/16/warren-buffett-reaps-40-billion-from-giant-apple-stake-since-march-bottom.html)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2020, 01:05:08 PM
I too have benefitted from Apple's runup, but my paper profits are a bit sort of $40 gigalarge.

I had bought a small amount for the wife's IRA and then sold out last August.  Bummer.  I should have put in a stop loss order and let it run.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 16, 2020, 01:27:17 PM
Wisconsin, Iowa and Michigan State spend more money than Nebraska?

Good
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 16, 2020, 01:50:07 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/109659260_3008958382536326_419277913930647579_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=cspLzIdnVtIAX-E_zbG&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=2f92c42822474c620ba8021f0bea6f03&oe=5F34EDC4)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 16, 2020, 03:41:10 PM
The NCAA Sport Science Institute released an updated report to help provide guidance to schools to help protect student-athletes and prevent the spread of COVID-19 Thursday. Per the NCAA.org release, “the guidelines are designed to inform schools in responding appropriately based on their specific circumstances and in the best interest of returning college athletes’ health and well-being.”

And while these are general recommendations, the NCAA noted that “many sports require close, personal contact and require specially crafted guidelines.” Among the biggest recommendations were:

Daily self-health checks.
The appropriate use of face coverings and social distancing during training, competition and outside of athletics.
Testing strategies for all athletics activities, including pre-season, regular season and post-season.
Testing and results within 72 hours of competition in high contact risk sports.
“Any recommendation on a pathway toward a safe return to sport will depend on the national trajectory of COVID-19 spread,” said Brian Hainline, NCAA chief medical officer. “The idea of sport resocialization is predicated on a scenario of reduced or flattened infection rates.”


https://247sports.com/college/nebraska/Article/college-football-COVID-19-NCAA-releases-list-of-prevention-recommendations-149229586/?utm_source=247Sports%2520Newsletter&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_campaign=200716_143636_NebraskaCornhuskers&utm_content=Image (https://247sports.com/college/nebraska/Article/college-football-COVID-19-NCAA-releases-list-of-prevention-recommendations-149229586/?utm_source=247Sports%20Newsletter&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_campaign=200716_143636_NebraskaCornhuskers&utm_content=Image)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 16, 2020, 03:46:41 PM
Follow the money.  Being top 20 in the nation = good.  Being in the same division as half of the top six, including 3 of the top 4 outside of the state of Texas = problem

https://twitter.com/RossDellenger/status/1283764494435602432?s=19
The Nebraska athletic department turned a $12 million profit during the 2018-19 fiscal year, according to a USA Today report.

The yearly USA Today database includes information on 227 athletic departments budgets. Nebraska ranked 21st in total revenue, bringing in slightly more than $136.2 million. NU spent $124 million in total expenses. The $12 million in profit is second-most in the Big Ten, behind Indiana, which made $13 million.

Nebraska was seventh in the Big Ten in revenue, just behind Iowa and Michigan State and ahead of Minnesota. The Huskers were eighth in spending, ahead of Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Rutgers and Purdue.

Texas brought in the most revenue at $223.8 million, and Ohio State was the highest spender, shelling out $220.5 million to fund the athletic department.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 16, 2020, 03:53:16 PM
Illinois Wesleyan is voting today or tomorrow to eliminate a lot of liberal arts departments, and is looking toward transforming to accommodate career-minded students. 

Heh. No shit.


In a fateful decision, Illinois Wesleyan University is considering eliminating a number of core humanities programs — including philosophy, religion and sociology — in order to adapt to what it sees as growing student demand for career-oriented classes.

The university’s Board of Trustees is set to vote on the cuts at a private meeting Thursday afternoon. Also on the chopping block are programs in anthropology, music, French and Italian. The changes won’t go into effect this school year but could prevent future students from majoring or minoring in those subjects.


https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-illinois-wesleyan-university-liberal-arts-program-cuts-20200716-yo337lghgrdmnpdl4xhfarzqe4-story.html (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-illinois-wesleyan-university-liberal-arts-program-cuts-20200716-yo337lghgrdmnpdl4xhfarzqe4-story.html)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 16, 2020, 04:43:47 PM
sending that to my brother
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 16, 2020, 04:44:01 PM
FORE!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 16, 2020, 06:00:40 PM


hopefully my advisor checked this one

my portfolio is back above where is was in February

so is my daughter's 529 plan

We picked it up at $125.00. C/Should have bought more, but... but...


Anyway, I'm up roughly 10% on the year as a whole, so I'm not going to bitch about anything. 

I don't feel bad for those who panicked and sold out on emotionally driven behavior. They lost their ass, while creating nice buying opportunities for those of us who stayed the course. Never bet against the Fed, is my motto. They have a lot of ammunition, and they have plenty more if needed.

There is your public service announcement for today. :)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 16, 2020, 06:52:56 PM
I'm doing pretty well this year.  My dad wanted to panic-sell, I didn't let him.  He should probably thank me to the tune of around $185,000 but I don't see that happening... ;)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 16, 2020, 08:18:14 PM
$185K would get you an AMG GT. I'd have a talk.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 17, 2020, 07:35:04 AM
I've told him many times that I'm not counting on his money for any of my family's needs, it's his own and he should use it as he sees fit.  The flipside of that, is that I don't want to be paying for any long-term assisted living he might eventually need, so he better spend his money wisely. ;)

Even so, I know both sets of GPs have put aside money for my kids' college education, so that's nice.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 17, 2020, 08:25:11 AM
Yes, it's bad here. 2 more weeks. Bye!!

(The Center Square) – Even though Illinois is facing a budget shortfall in the fiscal year that began this month, a budgetary analyst said the real pain will come when the state's federal loans come due the year after.
 
 The current 2021 fiscal year is projected to be billions of dollars short, but lawmakers plan to borrow $5 billion from the Federal Reserve Bank’s Municipal Liquidity Facility to cover costs.
 
 Although Illinois Comptroller Susana Mendoza warned that the state “may not make it through” the current year without some sort of untethered state aid, others said the crunch will come once the borrowing done in the current year comes due in tandem with a pension tab that will reflect COVID-19 market losses.
 
 “The unpaid bills at the end of this year are going to remain about the same as what they were last year, which was $8.49 billion,” said Ralph Martire, executive director of the Center for Tax and Budget Accountability. “But then there’s that $5 billion in debt that the state incurred this year that it’s using as ‘revenue’ this year that won’t be there next year. Next year will start with a revenue shortfall of over $13 billion.” 
 
 The state’s unemployment insurance trust fund, for instance, is expected to borrow $3.8 billion from the federal government. That money is due one year from issuance. The state had borrowed to replenish its unemployment trust fund in 2010 and was required to pay it off using bond issuances. Some of those took six years to pay off. 
 
 Even before the pandemic, Illinois’ pensions were not fully funded to meet the estimated costs of current and future payouts, according to a report from the Commission on Government Forecasting and Accountability. 
 
 The report said that the total debt, referred to as unfunded liability, had gone up $3.6 billion in the fiscal year that ended last July to $137.2 billion from $133.5 billion the year before. Illinois devotes more of its budget to pension payments than any other state.
 
 Martire advocates for a restructuring of the debt that would require the state to pay more upfront but keep a flat rate that would last through the life of a pension obligation bond. Others recommend a constitutional amendment to allow for a renegotiation of pensioner contracts that would allow for immediate relief. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2020, 08:25:15 AM
A happy day was when my kids told me not to send them any more money in he mail ...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2020, 08:29:21 AM
Every state in struggling with lost revenue, obviously IL is ill particularly.

I don't know how they can recover practicably.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 17, 2020, 08:31:03 AM
Every state in struggling with lost revenue, obviously IL is ill particularly.

I don't know how they can recover practicably.
I'm no longer part of their solution.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2020, 08:34:00 AM
We all may be part of their "solution" unless you're revoking your US citizenship.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 17, 2020, 08:47:00 AM
I can't see well-run states say "Sure, we'll subject our residents to more taxes to help Illinois, even though they've screwed up for 50 years". Penned by members of the Wisconsin state legislature, to Wisconsin's 2 US Senators:


“These responses to the disease have led to drastic changes in budget projections for states around the country: sales tax collections are down, income tax deadlines have been extended, unemployment rates are at historic levels and more businesses are permanently closing every day,” the letter said.

“That being said, Wisconsin has spent eight years making the tough choices to get our fiscal house in order,” the letter said. “We do know that our neighbors to the south have spent decades spending and borrowing recklessly.”

“After years of failing to fund their overly generous pension system, Illinois is already asking for the federal government to bail them out of these series of poor financial decisions,” the letter said.

“Wisconsin taxpayers should not be responsible for funding bailouts for irresponsible states across the country like Illinois, New York and California. Please stand with Wisconsin taxpayers and reject the multi-trillion dollar bailouts being considered by Congress,” it said.


https://herald-review.com/news/state-and-regional/wisconsin-lawmakers-urge-no-fed-bailout-money-for-illinois/article_6dae6864-e3db-5414-a944-b78cf768b5f5.html (https://herald-review.com/news/state-and-regional/wisconsin-lawmakers-urge-no-fed-bailout-money-for-illinois/article_6dae6864-e3db-5414-a944-b78cf768b5f5.html)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2020, 09:00:39 AM
The Feds can borrow, with abandon, they don't need tax revenue.  

Borrowing is a delayed tax no one sees today.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 17, 2020, 09:06:52 AM
Correct.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 17, 2020, 10:27:18 AM
Hey, I have an idea!

Since online school is such complete shit and delivers little, zero, or even negative value to young students, one way to help the budget shortfall would be to cancel the 2020/2021 schoolyear.

Problem solved. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 17, 2020, 10:57:27 AM
I like it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 17, 2020, 11:19:54 AM
School systems have a lot of fixed costs that don't go away by canceling a school year.  You guys know that, of course.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 17, 2020, 11:51:05 AM
School systems have a lot of fixed costs that don't go away by canceling a school year.  You guys know that, of course.
And they have a lot of variable costs that do.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 17, 2020, 12:38:55 PM
Looks like Illinois' biggest problem is going away. Game over. The End.

https://www.mystateline.com/news/local-news/feds-charge-comed-with-bribery-for-steering-jobs-contracts-to-illinois-speaker-mike-madigan/ (https://www.mystateline.com/news/local-news/feds-charge-comed-with-bribery-for-steering-jobs-contracts-to-illinois-speaker-mike-madigan/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 17, 2020, 12:40:06 PM
And they have a lot of variable costs that do.


Salaries come to mind. Mine got reduced. Many others I know aren't getting paid. What's good for one is good for all, no?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 17, 2020, 01:43:12 PM
I can't see well-run states say "Sure, we'll subject our residents to more taxes to help Illinois, even though they've screwed up for 50 years". Penned by members of the Wisconsin state legislature, to Wisconsin's 2 US Senators:


“These responses to the disease have led to drastic changes in budget projections for states around the country: sales tax collections are down, income tax deadlines have been extended, unemployment rates are at historic levels and more businesses are permanently closing every day,” the letter said.

“That being said, Wisconsin has spent eight years making the tough choices to get our fiscal house in order,” the letter said. “We do know that our neighbors to the south have spent decades spending and borrowing recklessly.”

“After years of failing to fund their overly generous pension system, Illinois is already asking for the federal government to bail them out of these series of poor financial decisions,” the letter said.

“Wisconsin taxpayers should not be responsible for funding bailouts for irresponsible states across the country like Illinois, New York and California. Please stand with Wisconsin taxpayers and reject the multi-trillion dollar bailouts being considered by Congress,” it said.


https://herald-review.com/news/state-and-regional/wisconsin-lawmakers-urge-no-fed-bailout-money-for-illinois/article_6dae6864-e3db-5414-a944-b78cf768b5f5.html (https://herald-review.com/news/state-and-regional/wisconsin-lawmakers-urge-no-fed-bailout-money-for-illinois/article_6dae6864-e3db-5414-a944-b78cf768b5f5.html)

This is some tremendous cheap heat. In parts accurate, but also some high end cheap heat. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 17, 2020, 01:55:50 PM
You want your Federal taxes to go up, to help Illinois further mismanage taxpayer dollars? Nothing is going to change here. There are veto-proof majorities in both sections of the capitol, and they will not open up the state constitution to fix the pension problem. They WANT to open it this fall, to change the state's tax plan from flat rate to progressive.

What could go wrong?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 17, 2020, 02:18:50 PM
You want your Federal taxes to go up, to help Illinois further mismanage taxpayer dollars? Nothing is going to change here. There are veto-proof majorities in both sections of the capitol, and they will not open up the state constitution to fix the pension problem. They WANT to open it this fall, to change the state's tax plan from flat rate to progressive.

What could go wrong?
It's not really about me wanting it or not. And the letter probably isn't really either. It's a bit of a show to get folks riled. Even if all of Wisconsin's reps shouted in unison, "Illinois shouldn't get help" it almost assuredly wouldn't have mattered.

But nothing can get Wisconsinites nodding more fervently than saying "Eff the FIBS" in code, and then taking shots at a few other big states. One might even call it a manner of virtue signaling. And all from a state that gets more from the federal government than it pays in (the three states mentioned do not).

In the end, it kinda didn't matter. The article is months old. Both Wisconsin senators voted for it. I can't find if there was an actual tally in the house.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 17, 2020, 03:00:28 PM
It's a republic, my friend. The States are supposed to have power, and they do. They make their own beds.

All I'm saying is that states which have mismanaged money as severely and for as long as Illinois has should not get bailed out. You in South Carolina did not promise gold-plated pension plans to government employees. You should have to pay for them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 17, 2020, 03:55:58 PM
It's a republic, my friend. The States are supposed to have power, and they do. They make their own beds.

All I'm saying is that states which have mismanaged money as severely and for as long as Illinois has should not get bailed out. You in South Carolina did not promise gold-plated pension plans to government employees. You should have to pay for them.
 
That first part is true. And if a great many states don't want to bail out Illinois, it's fine and dandy. 

But a third of a mid-sized state legislature begging its small delegation to crap on its neighbor, not so productive and sorta just silly and petty. Wisconsin produces less than a third of the raw federal income tax revenue as Illinois and the average Illinois resident contributes about 133 percent what a Wisconsin resident does, so this "Wisconsin tax dollars shouldn't go ..." is just flourish and pretend virtue. Someone can advocate against helping Illinois. One party in Wisconsin doing it is just cheap heat. (I'd say the same if Minnesota or Illinois were rabble rousing to not help Wisconsin with federal money after some boondoggle that happened)

In a larger sense, I think pensions are at best vestigial and don't make a ton of sense to me economically with my modest free-market bent. They seem to quagmire governments and companies alike. I get why they once existed. And my state, lets not hold it up as a model for much. I don't know if it's Illinois corrupt, but it holds its own. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 17, 2020, 04:03:40 PM
And all from a state that gets more from the federal government than it pays in (the three states mentioned do not).
That's the bit that always pisses me off... 

California is a really rich state. As a result, we have very high incomes here to address the high cost of living.  As a result, we pay higher federal income taxes (as well as social security and medicare) than most other states, because our incomes are high.

We also have a very high, very urban population so much of our infrastructure is centralized into small geographic areas.

Put the two together, and we give a bunch of money to Washington and don't get the same amount back. 

Yet we're at fault when we're funding all the rest of y'all. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 17, 2020, 04:04:32 PM
Honest question, because I have not dug in.

Have you dug into the numbers? 

I mean, the contributors are where the most people live and also where big business lives. How much of the Illinois contribution is business? Like, McDonald's, Boeing, Abbott, etc.? They have a ton of employees, and not only do they pay taxes, they pay FICA, etc. Is FICA included? Medicare/aid?

Also, I'd like to know what Federal money means. Florida and Arizona "take" a lot more than they give. 

If part of that is social security, and given the numbers, I suspect it is a part. 

I do not consider FICA to be Federal money. I consider it mine, ours, and yours. 

Because it is.

And, for 20 years, I've paid double for me as an employer of me. I'll never see it. Not even close.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 17, 2020, 04:05:31 PM
That's the bit that always pisses me off...

California is a really rich state. As a result, we have very high incomes here to address the high cost of living.  As a result, we pay higher federal income taxes (as well as social security and medicare) than most other states, because our incomes are high.

We also have a very high, very urban population so much of our infrastructure is centralized into small geographic areas.

Put the two together, and we give a bunch of money to Washington and don't get the same amount back.

Yet we're at fault when we're funding all the rest of y'all.
See my post above. Tell me how much is what.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 17, 2020, 04:08:11 PM
That's the bit that always pisses me off...

California is a really rich state. As a result, we have very high incomes here to address the high cost of living.  As a result, we pay higher federal income taxes (as well as social security and medicare) than most other states, because our incomes are high.

We also have a very high, very urban population so much of our infrastructure is centralized into small geographic areas.

Put the two together, and we give a bunch of money to Washington and don't get the same amount back.

Yet we're at fault when we're funding all the rest of y'all.
I hear ya. It doesn't seem fair.

If it honestly, truly bothers you, then you have the choice to move somewhere cheaper. 

But not Texas.

Thank You For Your Support
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 17, 2020, 04:17:10 PM
See my post above. Tell me how much is what.
My info is old, it appears. As of 2019, California is no longer on the list of donor states: https://www.governing.com/week-in-finance/gov-taxpayers-10-states-give-more-feds-than-get-back.html (https://www.governing.com/week-in-finance/gov-taxpayers-10-states-give-more-feds-than-get-back.html)

But just barely. 

Illinois still qualifies as a donor state. So per BAB's argument, it's one thing for other states to complain about subsidizing Illinois, but then when you point out that if Illinois could keep the money it's losing to subsidize the rest of the country maybe they'd need less help.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 17, 2020, 04:35:00 PM
I just want to know if the numbers include FICA and corporate taxes. Because if they do, the discussion is over.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2020, 05:02:14 PM
I think there is some creative math in all of that, but the poorer states are going to receive more Medicaid and welfare per capita obviously.

The poverty levels are set nationally while the cost of living varies a LOT locally.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 17, 2020, 05:29:51 PM
I feel like the dollar is going to crash soon.  Like hard.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 17, 2020, 05:41:01 PM
I feel like the dollar is going to crash soon.  Like hard. 
What's the alternative, internationally? Does any country have the capability and the willingness to crater the dollar and replace it? 

China wants to, but I don't know they've got the capability, regardless of the willingness.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 17, 2020, 05:49:31 PM
Honest question, because I have not dug in.

Have you dug into the numbers?

I mean, the contributors are where the most people live and also where big business lives. How much of the Illinois contribution is business? Like, McDonald's, Boeing, Abbott, etc.? They have a ton of employees, and not only do they pay taxes, they pay FICA, etc. Is FICA included? Medicare/aid?

Also, I'd like to know what Federal money means. Florida and Arizona "take" a lot more than they give.

If part of that is social security, and given the numbers, I suspect it is a part.

I do not consider FICA to be Federal money. I consider it mine, ours, and yours.

Because it is.

And, for 20 years, I've paid double for me as an employer of me. I'll never see it. Not even close.
It appears the answer is that FICA/SS is included.

Perhaps it is heavily retirement impacted, though you'd have to study that. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 17, 2020, 05:49:56 PM
I hear ya. It doesn't seem fair.

If it honestly, truly bothers you, then you have the choice to move somewhere cheaper.

But not Texas.

Thank You For Your Support

I'll be over there in a minute, don't you worry. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 17, 2020, 05:51:32 PM
I think there is some creative math in all of that, but the poorer states are going to receive more Medicaid and welfare per capita obviously.

The poverty levels are set nationally while the cost of living varies a LOT locally.
Sure. And states with less density will have less efficiency when it comes to services. 

The weird ones, as were being discussed in the other thread, are your states with one massive urban center. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 17, 2020, 05:52:57 PM
I hear ya. It doesn't seem fair.

If it honestly, truly bothers you, then you have the choice to move somewhere cheaper.

But not Texas.

Thank You For Your Support

Once the wife's best friend recovers from breast cancer, and then if I can get my boss to agree, we'll be neighbors. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 17, 2020, 11:01:01 PM
I'll be over there in a minute, don't you worry.
Once the wife's best friend recovers from breast cancer, and then if I can get my boss to agree, we'll be neighbors.

GDit, you guys are a bunch of jackwagons! 

I know you're kidding because I've seen in your posts how much each of you likes California, and there's plenty to like.  I like California, too.

If I absolutely HAD to have some California transplant neighbors, y'all would be at the top of my list.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 18, 2020, 12:41:09 AM
GDit, you guys are a bunch of jackwagons!

I know you're kidding because I've seen in your posts how much each of you likes California, and there's plenty to like.  I like California, too.

If I absolutely HAD to have some California transplant neighbors, y'all would be at the top of my list.
Not joking. Seriously considering it. If I would have found a >lateral move position at your company I'd have already applied. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 18, 2020, 01:35:07 AM
Salaries come to mind. Mine got reduced. Many others I know aren't getting paid. What's good for one is good for all, no?
One size fits all?  No.
Because schools are opening in Owasso, OK, with no masks required, all schools should open with no masks required?  No.
Of course, your question was not a serious one.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2020, 07:55:00 AM
I think a mistake "we" often make is tending to think everywhere is sort of like where we live, and what we know, and places we know that are different are just viewed as contemptible, in the main.  A New Yorker is apt to look down his nose at anyone from Owasso, OK, and probably think they are inbred hillbillies with no symphony of any note.

We stayed with a friend in Boston for a week who is an OB/GYN, super nice guy.  I could tell from his book collection he was pretty liberal, though we never talked politics except he brought up guns fairly often, he was against them.  He mentioned he had visited a friend in Montana and noted it was "really a different country, everyone had a gun, it was frightening".

I just agreed while noting that life in the country was a lot different from life in Newton, MA.  He was well traveled, has an apartment in Paris, but he didn't know much at all about rural US.  And he didn't care to.

I imagine someone in Owasso, OK, can probably get by with a lot less income than someone in Newton, MA, and that person likely shops a lot at Walmart, which no Newtonian would ever do.

I tend to be leery of "one size fits all" edicts and mandates coming down from DC.  Maybe so, maybe not.  I'm about finished with a biography of Grant and find it interesting how his Presidency increased the power of Federal government by quite a bit, in theory, but later Presidents chose often not to exercise that power, much, to protect specifically Freedmen in the South.  Getting out of slavery was good of course, but what followed was in some ways worse.  Grant was also sympathetic to the cause of the Native Americans, but had a hard time governing folks like Sheridan and the white settlers exploding into the West.  Sheridan wanted all the bison killed off so as to control the Indians.  

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 18, 2020, 10:21:23 AM
I had read Grant wasn't fond of Custer(after the Civil War) either - to ego driven as evidently he had designs on Political also.He stood right there with Sheridan as no friend of the native people
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2020, 11:02:30 AM
Grant knew Sheridan and Sherman well, he just had a different view of how native Americans should be treated. 

His fault as President mainly was lack of oversight, according to this book.  In the Army, people did what he told them pretty much.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 18, 2020, 12:41:27 PM
I think a mistake "we" often make is tending to think everywhere is sort of like where we live, and what we know, and places we know that are different are just viewed as contemptible, in the main.  A New Yorker is apt to look down his nose at anyone from Owasso, OK, and probably think they are inbred hillbillies with no symphony of any note.

We stayed with a friend in Boston for a week who is an OB/GYN, super nice guy.  I could tell from his book collection he was pretty liberal, though we never talked politics except he brought up guns fairly often, he was against them.  He mentioned he had visited a friend in Montana and noted it was "really a different country, everyone had a gun, it was frightening".

I just agreed while noting that life in the country was a lot different from life in Newton, MA.  He was well traveled, has an apartment in Paris, but he didn't know much at all about rural US.  And he didn't care to.

I imagine someone in Owasso, OK, can probably get by with a lot less income than someone in Newton, MA, and that person likely shops a lot at Walmart, which no Newtonian would ever do.
It's a weird gap. Many New Yorkers look down on Oklahomans. Many Oklahomans look down on New Yorkers. It's all kinda silly. 

The Newton, Mass thing makes me laugh. He's what? Less than 15 miles from rural areas? It might take Cincy longer to get to rural spots than him. 

I find myself of two minds about Walmart. On one hand, I like cheap stuff and don't have a ton of qualms about quality. On the other, they treat a lot of their employees quite badly and have caused a lot of damage to small towns, small businesses and the people who run them. They're kind of the logical end of economic efficiency, which is sometimes, good sometimes bad (I suppose I have the financial privilege to worry about such things, but that's another matter). 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 18, 2020, 12:50:41 PM
Nothing to see here. Everything's fine.

Six people were killed, and at least 25 people were wounded in shootings since 7:30 p.m. Friday into early Saturday morning, Chicago police said. The victims range in age from 14-years-old to 67.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2020, 12:52:08 PM
I use Walmart maybe twice a month to get "staples", things in cans or boxes, and the liquid yogurt the wife likes.

I figure the folks are not forced to work there if they can find a better job, they would (and many do I imagine).  My save the world days are long over of course.

Newton is a longer drive from a rural area than 15 minutes in my experience.  Apparently most of the residents have graduate degrees, or a high percentage anyway.

I didn't want my kids to go off and be around others with guns and not know some basic safety precepts, of course I let some pros train two of them.  They aren't fascinated with guns, perhaps as a result.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 18, 2020, 12:57:29 PM
In looking up the populations of the towns in the area, it appears the cutoff for "having a Walmart" is 7.5k. Every town that has a population of that or higher has a Walmart of their own, even if they already border another town or two that has them. Every town of 7k or fewer does not have one, even if they are over a hundred miles away from the nearest Walmart. 

It seems like the sweet spot for a small town is right about 3.5k to 5.5k; big enough to be self sustaining for the most part, and not under any immediate threat of "getting a Walmart."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 18, 2020, 01:00:59 PM
I avoid "Made in China" at all costs. So, I avoid Walmart. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2020, 01:13:46 PM
The stuff I buy is yogurt, cans of diced tomatoes, spaghetti noodles, hydrogen peroxide, toothpaste, shaving cream, other canned goods, laundry detergent, none of it made in China, so it's good.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 18, 2020, 01:23:24 PM
My wife goes there once in a while, to get the same types of things. Not food, but sundries, cleaning supplies, etc. I'll go once per year, to the RV section, to get boat supplies. It's about 1/2 price compared to West Marine.

When we go, it's at 7AM. Calm before the storm.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 18, 2020, 07:46:48 PM
They should provide golf card safaris through Wal-Mart stores between midnight and 2am.  Interesting creatures emerge - many that are rarely seen elsewhere.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 18, 2020, 09:33:52 PM
In looking up the populations of the towns in the area, it appears the cutoff for "having a Walmart" is 7.5k. Every town that has a population of that or higher has a Walmart of their own, even if they already border another town or two that has them. Every town of 7k or fewer does not have one, even if they are over a hundred miles away from the nearest Walmart.

It seems like the sweet spot for a small town is right about 3.5k to 5.5k; big enough to be self sustaining for the most part, and not under any immediate threat of "getting a Walmart."
The town I live in has a WM Supercenter with a population of about 2800.  Now it’s right on the border of the neighboring town that has around 8k people but the store sits within our city limits.

There is another little town about 30 minutes from here that has a WMSC and it’s smaller than the one I live in.  I’m guessing it isn’t so much the population of the town in which it resides as it is about the population of the surrounding area. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2020, 12:08:36 AM
folks want to shop at Walmart, that's fine with me.

I don't.  I'm happy to have other options I prefer.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2020, 07:01:46 AM
It's great to have a plethora of options.  Each of can choose which blend of price, service, and quality we want in shopping.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2020, 10:43:16 AM
Taking the shit downtown. Nice.


A man was killed and a woman was injured after they were shot while in a car near the Wabash Avenue bridge in downtown Chicago early Sunday, according to Chicago police.

Around 2:30 a.m., officers were waved down by two people in a car who needed medical assistance after being shot in the 300 block of North Wabash Avenue in the Near North neighborhood, police said.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 19, 2020, 10:59:33 AM
Taking the shit downtown. Nice.


A man was killed and a woman was injured after they were shot while in a car near the Wabash Avenue bridge in downtown Chicago early Sunday, according to Chicago police.

Around 2:30 a.m., officers were waved down by two people in a car who needed medical assistance after being shot in the 300 block of North Wabash Avenue in the Near North neighborhood, police said.




I was expecting an article about someone having a run in with a sidewalk pooper. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2020, 11:01:31 AM
Anything in that report of a shooting as to why that couple was targeted, or was it random?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 19, 2020, 11:01:41 AM
The town I live in has a WM Supercenter with a population of about 2800.  Now it’s right on the border of the neighboring town that has around 8k people but the store sits within our city limits.

There is another little town about 30 minutes from here that has a WMSC and it’s smaller than the one I live in.  I’m guessing it isn’t so much the population of the town in which it resides as it is about the population of the surrounding area. 


Well that shoots my theory all to Hell. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2020, 11:09:32 AM
The theory is probably about right, but the exact location could be in a less populous town bordering a larger one, the location may not matter.

They built a Walmart in our village of 3,300, but it was in suburbia, so I don't think the 3,300 was a factor, it probably more relates to gross population within a 10 mile radius or something.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 19, 2020, 11:29:46 AM
Around here there are three towns in a row that have one; St George (90k), Washington (30k) and Hurricane (20k). The one in the middle borders the other two. The rest of the burbs are under 7.5k, so they have to pick the closest one and go there. The hub of the next county north, Cedar City, is 30k, so it has a Walmart. Mesquite, NV (20k) is the next major town southward; Walmart. Out in the boonies, there is a Walmart in Richfield, UT (8k) and there is one in Page, AZ (7.5k). The next one will probably be Moapa Valley, but they are only at 7k right now, so they don't have one. Even with a Satellite town contributing another 1k, and an Indian Res contributing some more on top of that, they don't get one. They have to leave the northern shores of Lake Mead and either go 30 miles to Mesquite or 40 miles to Las Vegas, if they want to shop at one. All the other towns in that region are smaller than Moapa Valley, so they don't get one even if they are hundreds of miles away from the nearest Walmart, and it doesn't particularly seem to matter if they have a few satellite communities that bump them over the number. 

Now I could have expanded my data region in order to include greater Las Vegas, and that would have added a lot more data points, but I don't really have all their suburban boundaries memorized. They don't even really have suburbs in the traditional sense. It is difficult to tell where North Las Vegas ends and Las Vegas begins, for example. Also the Las Vegas strip is not actually in Las Vegas, but it is contained mostly in Paradise, and even spills over a little into some other suburb. You won't see the term "Paradise" anywhere on the strip; at least not as any sort of indication of your geographic location. 

If instead of going to Vegas, you turn north on the Great Basin Highway, you will make it across the entire length of the state without ever encountering a town over 7k or a Walmart. Twin Falls Idaho would be the first town that you would came across with those two descriptors. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2020, 11:34:43 AM
I imagine the planners at every large retailer have up to date maps of populations and income levels by zip code, or even finer gradations.

I once read that no McDonald's has even gone under.  They do at times move a franchise from A to B if a neighborhood changes over time.  The franchise concept is rather magical at times, often of course a scam, or sometimes it's a scam.  I used to wonder about Subway they were opening so fast.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2020, 11:42:45 AM
FORE!

cooler weather here today

won't reach triple digits for heat index
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2020, 11:44:41 AM
Anything in that report of a shooting as to why that couple was targeted, or was it random?
Nada, but I'm sure it was targeted.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2020, 11:46:39 AM
So, a couple was driving late and some other person shot them on purpose?  Interesting.  I suppose it's not know if the shooter was in a vehicle.

I suppose it's better if it was a purposeful shooting.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 19, 2020, 12:02:17 PM
If you put a pin where I live  I can drive an hour in any direction and hit a total of 8 Wal Mart’s.  Only 2 reside in towns with over 6000 people.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 19, 2020, 12:02:23 PM

I once read that no McDonald's has even gone under.  They do at times move a franchise from A to B if a neighborhood changes over time.  The franchise concept is rather magical at times, often of course a scam, or sometimes it's a scam.  I used to wonder about Subway they were opening so fast.




The Subways are out of control. Cedar City, UT has seven by my count, and two of them straddle either side of their primary exit so that they are the first thing that you come to no matter which way you turn. 

Mesquite, NV has always had two McDonald's, which I have always found funny. Even when they were much smaller than their current 20k, they have always had two. I bet that they don't even have half a dozen total fast food joints, yet two of them are the exact same thing. Ridiculous, really. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 19, 2020, 12:07:04 PM
I couldn’t even begin to count the number of Subway’s just within a 20 mile radius of me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 19, 2020, 12:24:31 PM

The Subways are out of control. Cedar City, UT has seven by my count, and two of them straddle either side of their primary exit so that they are the first thing that you come to no matter which way you turn.

Mesquite, NV has always had two McDonald's, which I have always found funny. Even when they were much smaller than their current 20k, they have always had two. I bet that they don't even have half a dozen total fast food joints, yet two of them are the exact same thing. Ridiculous, really.
There is a town about 25 minutes south of me in WV called Beckley. Has around 20k in population but somehow supports 3 McDonald’s, 2 Chick Fil A’s, and 2 Wendy’s.  There is actually a third Chick Fil A in a mall about 5 minutes outside of the city limits that everyone just sort of thinks of as Beckley anyway.  All of the duplicate franchises are within a 10 minute drive of each other.  It’s insane.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2020, 12:26:25 PM
Maybe this is a sign that Americans like fast food.  I wonder if we have a weight problem.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 19, 2020, 12:34:36 PM
I couldn’t even begin to count the number of Subway’s just within a 20 mile radius of me.
If memory serves, I recall some story years ago about how Subway makes their franchises super cheap to start and doesn't care much about their density. So a lot of Subways, with more going under, is more financially viable for the mothership than fewer ones that concentrate business (I suppose the loss is carried by those who start the franchise). 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 19, 2020, 12:39:39 PM
There is a town about 25 minutes south of me in WV called Beckley. Has around 20k in population but somehow supports 3 McDonald’s, 2 Chick Fil A’s, and 2 Wendy’s.  There is actually a third Chick Fil A in a mall about 5 minutes outside of the city limits that everyone just sort of thinks of as Beckley anyway.  All of the duplicate franchises are within a 10 minute drive of each other.  It’s insane.
One set for the freeway traffic, one for the locals?

In googling this, I learned I've been through Beckley. I did not stop, though it appears to have a few more interesting spots for freeway adjacent food. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 19, 2020, 12:45:25 PM
There is a town about 25 minutes south of me in WV called Beckley. Has around 20k in population but somehow supports 3 McDonald’s, 2 Chick Fil A’s, and 2 Wendy’s.  There is actually a third Chick Fil A in a mall about 5 minutes outside of the city limits that everyone just sort of thinks of as Beckley anyway.  All of the duplicate franchises are within a 10 minute drive of each other.  It’s insane.

Nice. When I was in Ohio my mountain getaways tended to be in either Pipestem or Princeton, right around that area. So I've been through Beckley, but never stayed. You are right though, it was a good place to stop and grab a bite to eat. There was a Hooters in Beckley that came in handy for watching sporting events, from time to time. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2020, 01:02:44 PM
I know Beckley a bit, there isn't much around it north or south to get a bite to eat off the turnpike.

I used to drive that way from Cincy to Raleigh back in the day.

The turnpike was only two lanes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 19, 2020, 01:10:17 PM
There is a town about 25 minutes south of me in WV called Beckley. Has around 20k in population but somehow supports 3 McDonald’s, 2 Chick Fil A’s, and 2 Wendy’s.  There is actually a third Chick Fil A in a mall about 5 minutes outside of the city limits that everyone just sort of thinks of as Beckley anyway.  All of the duplicate franchises are within a 10 minute drive of each other.  It’s insane.
My favorite memory of West Virginia was driving my the town of Nitro to go to a taping of Monday Nitro
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 19, 2020, 01:16:21 PM


How many Tudor's Biscuit Worlds are there within a 25 mile radius of Beckley WV? 



(https://www.kentucky.com/latest-news/sloud7/picture240729426/alternates/LANDSCAPE_1140/biscuit%20world%20lineup.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2020, 01:19:58 PM
There was a Union Carbide methyl isocyanate plant near there.  You may recall the Bhopal disaster back in the day.

Dec. 2 1984.  Wow.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 19, 2020, 01:31:00 PM
A cool thing about Nevada is that there are more ghost towns than occupied towns. Most are really old mining town relics, but there is one that is relatively new. Coyote Springs. This thing was supposed to be a resort community with a quarter million people about 40 miles north from Las Vegas. The only thing that ever got constructed though was a big, beautiful Jack Nicholas golf course. After that it was deemed that there was no way to get an amount of water there that would be sufficient for a community of that size, so they pulled the plug. But to this day they still maintain and operate the golf course.

There might be one town over 1,000 people within a thirty mile radius, I mean this place is out by Area 51. It is remote. There are no hotels to stay at. Just a spectacular golf course out in the middle of the desert, out by where they used to test H-bombs. I suppose you could park a motor home out there for a few days and dry camp, while you play the course a handful of times, but that's about the only way that you are playing it.

Kind of crazy, really. If they are going to operate this golf course, then you'd think they'd just dial it back to like ten thousand people thereabouts, and have the golf course be the center piece of a small resort community, flanked by a couple of casino hotels or some such. Nope. Just a random golf course out in the middle of nowhere, with no houses nearby.

(https://www.coyotesprings.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/10.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on July 19, 2020, 01:36:21 PM
Browns inlet... the barrier island between me and the ocean is an impact area for the marine corps... 14 mile run from my home dock... 28mile round trip and burn 10.4 gallons of fuel running 35-40mph and 3500ish rpm...

90ish degrees... cold beer. Tunes. Chow. Good book.  Family.. pretty private shoal...

Life is good.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 19, 2020, 01:57:49 PM

How many Tudor's Biscuit Worlds are there within a 25 mile radius of Beckley WV?



(https://www.kentucky.com/latest-news/sloud7/picture240729426/alternates/LANDSCAPE_1140/biscuit%20world%20lineup.jpg)
You can never have enough Tudor’s, lol.  There are several around here.  We have one here in Fayetteville. The owners live in my neighborhood, next street over.  Can’t beat those biscuits.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 19, 2020, 02:11:35 PM
One set for the freeway traffic, one for the locals?

In googling this, I learned I've been through Beckley. I did not stop, though it appears to have a few more interesting spots for freeway adjacent food.
Yeah, that is the idea. Still seems like a lot for a town that size though.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 19, 2020, 02:27:07 PM
Speaking of fast food, has anyone else noticed the demise of the dollar menu? Now it's called the "value" menu and it sure as sh!t hard to find anything on it for a dollar. 

I had to go see a customer this week and hadn't had Wendy's in a great long while, and there was one right before getting on the freeway so I figured I'd give it a shot. I always used to like the 1/4 lb double stack growing up off the value menu, and it's not as laden with toppings as other burgers so I figured it would be easy to eat while driving. That thing isn't even called a "1/4 lb" double stack any more, so I don't even know how much beef is used, and it costs $2.89. Some "value"...

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 19, 2020, 03:56:49 PM
The best deals in fast food are the 4 for $4 at Wendy’s or like two sandwiches for $5 at McDonald’s.  

Dollar menus do seem to be gone.  You can go to certain fast food restaurants these days and with the prices it’s almost like going to a sit down chain.

If my family of four goes to Chick Fil A it’s $40.  Arby’s is another fast food joint that will lighten your wallet in a hurry.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 19, 2020, 05:25:54 PM
Browns inlet... the barrier island between me and the ocean is an impact area for the marine corps... 14 mile run from my home dock... 28mile round trip and burn 10.4 gallons of fuel running 35-40mph and 3500ish rpm...

90ish degrees... cold beer. Tunes. Chow. Good book.  Family.. pretty private shoal...

Life is good.
Based on the pictures I'd thought it was china :dink:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 19, 2020, 05:26:27 PM
The best deals in fast food are the 4 for $4 at Wendy’s or like two sandwiches for $5 at McDonald’s. 

Dollar menus do seem to be gone.  You can go to certain fast food restaurants these days and with the prices it’s almost like going to a sit down chain.

If my family of four goes to Chick Fil A it’s $40.  Arby’s is another fast food joint that will lighten your wallet in a hurry.
If I can get out of  sit-down chain for $15 or less for just me, I'm usually pretty happy. 

Meals are pricy these days.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 19, 2020, 05:41:56 PM
I know Beckley a bit, there isn't much around it north or south to get a bite to eat off the turnpike.

I used to drive that way from Cincy to Raleigh back in the day.

The turnpike was only two lanes.


I think now it is where the toll portion ends. So there really isn't anywhere to stop between Charleston and Beckley because they try and keep you on the freeway in through there, for the most part. Then you finally emerge into Beckley, and it is time to gas up, drain the lizard, and grab a bite to eat. 

There were a few times that I bypassed the toll portion and instead went through Montgomery, which is a nice drive along the river. That route takes you out by the New River Gorge, which is a scenic spot. But it adds an hour or so to the trip. More, if you stop to look at the gorge. 


(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/wvgazettemail.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/f/80/f807b3ed-5705-5bd8-aa6f-f6ea2a03ebc2/5d9e831117706.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C857)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2020, 05:57:02 PM
I think the toll ends at Princeton, or it used to, have not been that way in a while.  We took I-64 across to Beckley in '13.

When I first moved to Cincy, I-75 was not finished over Jellico Mountain and the detour on US 25 was onerous.  The then wife's parents lived in Raleigh.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 19, 2020, 06:03:25 PM
Attempt #2 at cutting the boys' hair... Much better than the first attempt. They actually look like someone mildly competent did it this time lol...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 19, 2020, 06:15:32 PM
I finally cut my hair.  It gets curly, not long.  Looks good while wearing a cap, but not otherwise. 

Damn, cincy, you pre-date I-75?  None of those statues being torn down are of you, are they?  :57:
(age joke, nothing more)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 19, 2020, 06:20:37 PM
A cool thing about Nevada is that there are more ghost towns than occupied towns. Most are really old mining town relics, but there is one that is relatively new. Coyote Springs. This thing was supposed to be a resort community with a quarter million people about 40 miles north from Las Vegas. The only thing that ever got constructed though was a big, beautiful Jack Nicholas golf course. After that it was deemed that there was no way to get an amount of water there that would be sufficient for a community of that size, so they pulled the plug. But to this day they still maintain and operate the golf course.
So they skipped step #1 in building anything with people out west?  Hmmph.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2020, 06:24:20 PM
I-75 in northern Tennessee was finished about 1982.  It runs up and then along the top of Jellico Mountain and is an interesting engineering feat, I think.

There was a section of I-40 in NC finished around that time, again in the mountains east of Ashville.  I remember a few miles of I-81 in Virginia were four lane but not limited access.

I have a photo of the downtown connector here being worked in in the 1950s.

(https://i.imgur.com/9kjxu8o.png)

That "freeway" had nonexistent entrance acceleration lanes, you just merged right into the highway.  Hopefully.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2020, 06:28:52 PM
This is almost the same view recently.  The stuff north of where the freeway cuts through is considered midtown, and the area south is downtown.  The stuff to the left is some decrepit quasi trade school of some sort.

(https://i.imgur.com/e2WOegr.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 19, 2020, 06:44:22 PM
So they skipped step #1 in building anything with people out west?  Hmmph.


That's right. 

Out beyond Coyote Springs is a turnoff called the Extra Terrestrial Highway, and it is the only place where Area 51 is visible from the road. You can see the fence line off in the distance. 

There is a dirt road off of it called Groom Lake Rd that goes out to Groom Lake. Groom Lake is in Area 51 though, so presumably you could take that dirt road all the way to the fence line. I haven't tried it though. Best case scenario, there'd be a sign on the fence that tells me to get lost. With my luck though, it would instead lead up to a group of armed guards that found my explanation for my whereabouts to be highly unsatisfactory. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 19, 2020, 08:46:59 PM
I-75 in northern Tennessee was finished about 1982.  It runs up and then along the top of Jellico Mountain and is an interesting engineering feat, I think.

There was a section of I-40 in NC finished around that time, again in the mountains east of Ashville.  I remember a few miles of I-81 in Virginia were four lane but not limited access.

I have a photo of the downtown connector here being worked in in the 1950s.

(https://i.imgur.com/9kjxu8o.png)

That "freeway" had nonexistent entrance acceleration lanes, you just merged right into the highway.  Hopefully.


This is downtown ATL?

That I-75 run north of Knoxville is one of my favorite drives in the US.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 19, 2020, 10:55:56 PM

I think now it is where the toll portion ends. So there really isn't anywhere to stop between Charleston and Beckley because they try and keep you on the freeway in through there, for the most part. Then you finally emerge into Beckley, and it is time to gas up, drain the lizard, and grab a bite to eat.

There were a few times that I bypassed the toll portion and instead went through Montgomery, which is a nice drive along the river. That route takes you out by the New River Gorge, which is a scenic spot. But it adds an hour or so to the trip. More, if you stop to look at the gorge.


(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/wvgazettemail.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/f/80/f807b3ed-5705-5bd8-aa6f-f6ea2a03ebc2/5d9e831117706.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C857)
The Gorge is my neck of the woods. Live less than 5 minutes from the bridge.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2020, 07:06:57 AM
This is downtown ATL?

That I-75 run north of Knoxville is one of my favorite drives in the US.
That photo is from 1948 apparently and is midtown, north of downtown.  The larger building is the Biltmore Hotel, which still stands, as office space and some condos.

It's an attractive brick building.  You can see Grant Field (GT) on the left.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 20, 2020, 07:42:43 AM
Why do I have advertisement on the side bar for basic block "M" Michigan T-Shirts?The Horror
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2020, 07:54:42 AM
I had OSU for a long time, now it's UM.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2020, 08:22:26 AM
So they skipped step #1 in building anything with people out west?  Hmmph.
Idiocy. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 20, 2020, 10:06:49 AM
That photo is from 1948 apparently and is midtown, north of downtown.  The larger building is the Biltmore Hotel, which still stands, as office space and some condos.

It's an attractive brick building.  You can see Grant Field (GT) on the left.
OK. I figured you were insulting Badge's platonic ideal of a school, but wanted to make sure. (One could make a case for the practicality of Cal Poly for Badge, but GT has the calc and only offers 11 liberal arts majors total)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2020, 10:15:48 AM
My best friend here is a retired Tech Physics professor.  We have him over for dinner about every other day.  We often watch this Youtube video, he has been on this safari several times and desperately wants to return, he's also quite a photographer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh8zQ_OqLUg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh8zQ_OqLUg)

They post a video for each morning and evening of every day, the profusion of species there is amazing to me.  Now we want to go.  South Africa.

Dawg fans call Georgia Tech the "North Avenue Trade School", or NATS, because they buzz around and are annoying.  Obviously, in reality it's quite a good school.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 20, 2020, 10:33:18 AM

Dawg fans call Georgia Tech the "North Avenue Trade School", or NATS, because they buzz around and are annoying.  Obviously, in reality it's quite a good school.
Yeah, FOR NERDS!

/Takes off Dawgs cap to crush beer can on forehead. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2020, 10:37:54 AM
The professor took me on a walking tour of campus last year.  Suffice it to say it is a LOT nicer than it was when I was thinking about colleges.

The stadium is a dump though.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on July 20, 2020, 10:44:01 AM
I went to Bobby Dodd a few years ago for  Thursday night game, same weekend I went to Athens for a game vs AU.   For being the oldest P5 stadium I didnt find it to be a dump at all.    I can think of a lot of P5 stadiums I've been to which are in crappier condition and less fan friendly than Dodd.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2020, 12:01:17 PM
A cool thing about Nevada is that there are more ghost towns than occupied towns. Most are really old mining town relics, but there is one that is relatively new. Coyote Springs. This thing was supposed to be a resort community with a quarter million people about 40 miles north from Las Vegas. The only thing that ever got constructed though was a big, beautiful Jack Nicholas golf course. After that it was deemed that there was no way to get an amount of water there that would be sufficient for a community of that size, so they pulled the plug. But to this day they still maintain and operate the golf course.

There might be one town over 1,000 people within a thirty mile radius, I mean this place is out by Area 51. It is remote. There are no hotels to stay at. Just a spectacular golf course out in the middle of the desert, out by where they used to test H-bombs. I suppose you could park a motor home out there for a few days and dry camp, while you play the course a handful of times, but that's about the only way that you are playing it.

Kind of crazy, really. If they are going to operate this golf course, then you'd think they'd just dial it back to like ten thousand people thereabouts, and have the golf course be the center piece of a small resort community, flanked by a couple of casino hotels or some such. Nope. Just a random golf course out in the middle of nowhere, with no houses nearby.

(https://www.coyotesprings.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/10.jpg)
now I gotta play this track - good specials - cheap cheap because of the location


GOLF – LUNCH – GOLF
$25 Lunch & Stand-By Replay at Coyote Springs
– Morning round at regular rate for tee times between 6:30 – 10:00 AM
– Summertime replays MUST be off the course by 6PM (5/26–8/31)
– Up to 18-holes are included in the replay
– Lunch in Mitch’s Bar & Grill between morning and afternoon round
– Good for an entrée, chips or potato salad & a fountain soft drink
– Can not be used for breakfast before 1st round or for a meal after the 2nd round
– Book your morning tee times online or by calling 725-210-5400. Stand-By replays are based on availability on the course. Most times of the year they are available between 1:30-2:00PM.
– If you would prefer a guaranteed replay, it is $40 per player and also includes lunch in Mitch’s Bar & Grill.
– Guaranteed replays must be booked by phone with the Golf Shop or by email to karl.larcom@coyotesprings.com or kgraham@coyotesprings.com.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2020, 12:05:53 PM
only 55 minutes from the Wynn

and I have a friend at Moapa Valley Telephone
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2020, 12:12:25 PM
If memory serves, I recall some story years ago about how Subway makes their franchises super cheap to start and doesn't care much about their density. So a lot of Subways, with more going under, is more financially viable for the mothership than fewer ones that concentrate business (I suppose the loss is carried by those who start the franchise).
A good friend of mine has 7 or 8 subway franchises here in a county of 107,000 people.
Obviously he knows what he's doing.... he says on average he makes a little more than $25K per year per location
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2020, 12:16:47 PM
I was a sandwich artist for several months back in the late 90s. Realized at that point that I have no desire to ever work in foodservice again, and once I turned 16 and got my driver's license (and no longer needed a work permit in Illinois to get a job) I quit and started selling computers at Best Buy. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2020, 12:18:21 PM
Arby’s is another fast food joint that will lighten your wallet in a hurry.
I don't think I've eaten Arby's since 1996.

Back then they had the 4 for $5 beef & cheddar sandwiches on special, or the 5 for $5 roast beef. I only ate there when they were on special. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on July 20, 2020, 02:14:07 PM
That's the bit that always pisses me off...

California is a really rich state. As a result, we have very high incomes here to address the high cost of living.  As a result, we pay higher federal income taxes (as well as social security and medicare) than most other states, because our incomes are high.

We also have a very high, very urban population so much of our infrastructure is centralized into small geographic areas.

Put the two together, and we give a bunch of money to Washington and don't get the same amount back.

Yet we're at fault when we're funding all the rest of y'all.

It is your state's choice to overregulate, over tax, etc. to cause your cost of living to go higher than most state, requiring higher salaries for people to live there and thus pay more in income tax.

I use to work for a home builder that built houses in California. $200K to $300K for a $650K new build were in taxes, fee, levies, or other types of government costs.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 20, 2020, 02:36:38 PM
It is your state's choice to overregulate, over tax, etc. to cause your cost of living to go higher than most state, requiring higher salaries for people to live there and thus pay more in income tax.

I use to work for a home builder that built houses in California. $200K to $300K for a $650K new build were in taxes, fee, levies, or other types of government costs. 
This is not economics. 

It would imply that if you simply tax more and regulate more, you will create higher wages/costs/such. That is almost assuredly incorrect.

I'm sure there's some luck factors, what with the placement of silicon valley, but for a variety of reasons, it's an extremely attractive place to live and that demand drives up all the other nonsense. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2020, 02:56:06 PM
This is not economics.

It would imply that if you simply tax more and regulate more, you will create higher wages/costs/such. That is almost assuredly incorrect.

I'm sure there's some luck factors, what with the placement of silicon valley, but for a variety of reasons, it's an extremely attractive place to live and that demand drives up all the other nonsense.
I dunno. There are towns around Chicago where a home builder will pay $150-200K in permit fees, connection fees and inspection fees. Call them hidden sales taxes, if you will, since the home buyer pays them all.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2020, 02:59:55 PM
It is your state's choice to overregulate, over tax, etc. to cause your cost of living to go higher than most state, requiring higher salaries for people to live there and thus pay more in income tax.

I use to work for a home builder that built houses in California. $200K to $300K for a $650K new build were in taxes, fee, levies, or other types of government costs. 
That's part of it, but certainly not all of it. 

BTW I have a bit of a theory on this... 


The good stuff (jobs, salaries,etc) comes first--the government comes after. 


Most of us in places like this live here not because of what the government does for us, but because the place is still a net positive after accounting for all the crappy things it does to us. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2020, 03:09:47 PM
I dunno. There are towns around Chicago where a home builder will pay $150-200K in permit fees, connection fees and inspection fees. Call them hidden sales taxes, if you will, since the home buyer pays them all.
Chicago has jobs. Chicago has cultural features like art, museums, food, festivals, music, etc. Chicago has great educational opportunities (maybe not in certain areas on the south/west sides, but in the suburbs), and several universities. And worst-case, if you live in the Chicago 'burbs you're getting in-state tuition at UIUC or ISU. 

Sure, the weather sucks 9-10 months out of the year. But people get used to weather--and most of the people who are attracted to Chicago regionally from surrounding states because Chicago is "where the good jobs are" are used to the weather anyway. 

Per my previous post, state/local government should be viewed as a parasite. Parasites grow strongest and fattest on successful hosts. Chicago has been a pretty successful host. And unlike places like Detroit (whose success was too tied to a single industry), it's success is diversified. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 20, 2020, 03:11:45 PM
I don't think I've eaten Arby's since 1996.

Back then they had the 4 for $5 beef & cheddar sandwiches on special, or the 5 for $5 roast beef. I only ate there when they were on special.
In the summers I'd get those at least twice a month at work.Some horsey sauce or spicey mstard,that was it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on July 20, 2020, 03:14:32 PM
Everybody wants a taste.
To be a pig at the trough. 
To get their beak wet, whatever you want to call it.

There are tipping or breaking points. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2020, 03:18:47 PM
Chicago has jobs. Chicago has cultural features like art, museums, food, festivals, music, etc. Chicago has great educational opportunities (maybe not in certain areas on the south/west sides, but in the suburbs), and several universities. And worst-case, if you live in the Chicago 'burbs you're getting in-state tuition at UIUC or ISU.

Sure, the weather sucks 9-10 months out of the year. But people get used to weather--and most of the people who are attracted to Chicago regionally from surrounding states because Chicago is "where the good jobs are" are used to the weather anyway.

Per my previous post, state/local government should be viewed as a parasite. Parasites grow strongest and fattest on successful hosts. Chicago has been a pretty successful host. And unlike places like Detroit (whose success was too tied to a single industry), it's success is diversified.
A lot of money has left Illinois in recent years, and it's not coming back. Indiana, Wisconsin, Iowa and Missouri say thanks.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 20, 2020, 03:21:22 PM
only 55 minutes from the Wynn

and I have a friend at Moapa Valley Telephone

Moapa Valley would actually be a pretty good place to stay for that. There is a back road that connects that town with this golf course that is only about 30 miles in length. 

It is probably 40/50 miles or so from this golf course to the Las Vegas Motor Speedway, which is the first thing that you come to when you get to Vegas. "The Strip" is another 20 miles beyond that, with moderate to heavy traffic. 

(https://res.cloudinary.com/stephens-media/image/upload/v1529790018/RJ/COYOTE-WATER-JUN24-18.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2020, 04:31:48 PM
Google maps said it was 55 minutes - usually pretty close

not sure if there is a rush hour in Vegas - never done any driving there

I have a buddy that lives there, he either drives or I grab a cab

buddy lives on a golf course, but he doesn't play.

I'd guess I'll never get to coyote springs, but it's a nice thought
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2020, 05:15:25 PM
There will be no large crowds at any Rutgers University home football games, if there are games in the fall, the school announced Monday.

The announcement covers all athletic events held at school facilities for the immediate future. It was not clear in the school's announcement whether the directive will apply beyond the fall.

"All Rutgers Athletics venues will operate in accordance with the executive orders issued by New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy limiting outdoor gatherings to 500 people or fewer. All safety precautions will be in place for those individuals who will be in attendance.

"We understand and support the Governor's decision based on health and safety guidelines. Athletic department officials will continue to monitor any changes to public health guidelines and adjust accordingly.''
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 20, 2020, 05:33:40 PM
There will be no large crowds at any Rutgers University home football games, if there are games in the fall, the school announced Monday.



Other things Rutgers announced: 
Sky, still blue
Sun, rising in the east tomorrow 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2020, 05:50:02 PM
Could sell like 200 tickets per game for helmet schools, maybe auction them off. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2020, 05:51:05 PM
the Huskers would buy 500
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2020, 06:01:01 PM
the Huskers would buy 500
The kids on the teams, the coaches, staff, managers, trainers, doctors, officials, TV cameras, etc. would probably be at or very near 500 people.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 20, 2020, 06:07:28 PM
Google maps said it was 55 minutes - usually pretty close

not sure if there is a rush hour in Vegas - never done any driving there

I have a buddy that lives there, he either drives or I grab a cab

buddy lives on a golf course, but he doesn't play.

I'd guess I'll never get to coyote springs, but it's a nice thought

It might be right, I suppose. I haven't driven from Coyote Springs to Las Vegas, specifically. You can fly down that great basin highway. 

The traffic there is not awful. More like Ohio, where it might slow to a crawl, but it rarely grinds to a complete and total halt, like it does in Atlanta, NYC, Chicago, California, etc. Even on the strip, it moves. Slowly but surely. 

There is only one interstate across, I-15, running north and south. There is no East/West Interstate, but there are a few interior freeways around town. But mostly long streets with a lot of lanes and a lot of lights. 

There is a cool back way to Moapa that takes you over Sunrise Mountain and then along the north shoreline of Lake Mead. But they charge a fee to go that way if you don't have a pass. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2020, 07:21:02 PM
OMAHA, Neb. (AP) — At least eight people were injured, including one critically, when someone in a passing vehicle began shooting early Sunday into crowd in Omaha.

A 15-year-old girl, Paduey Jock, sustained a life-threatening injury in the shooting about 5:15 a.m., the Omaha World-Herald reported. A spokeswoman for the Nebraska Medical Center said she remained in critical condition Sunday afternoon.

The teen was in a crowd of about 100 people outside when someone in a gray minivan began firing. Seven other people were also injured by gunfire during that incident.

A total of 14 people in incidents involving five shooting scenes went to Omaha hospitals for treatment between Saturday night and Sunday morning.

Two were injured in vehicle collisions involving gunfire, two were shot while driving, one person was shot walking, and one was shot after getting into a dispute with another driver.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 20, 2020, 08:12:46 PM
I dunno. There are towns around Chicago where a home builder will pay $150-200K in permit fees, connection fees and inspection fees. Call them hidden sales taxes, if you will, since the home buyer pays them all.
I've no doubt that's the case. I'd be interested to know which towns, just as a means to get a clearer feel. 

But the theory still kinda has a hole. If it was the case that raising taxes in turn raised wages and property values, then all governments would find ways to drive them actually sky high. Now there are probably certain feedback loops involved (companies exist around people, people demand something livable, etc.), but that only works when demand to live somewhere stays high. 

bwarbiany kind of nailed it, but you delivered a key follow up. In theory, the high taxes and high housing prices push money/businesses into cheaper places. To a degree this is a net good. But it only works if demand to live in Chi or SF or NY can be staunched in some way, and for the moment, it's not there yet. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 20, 2020, 08:31:23 PM
Other things Rutgers announced:
Sky, still blue
Sun, rising in the east tomorrow
Lol. I thought the same thing as I read it.  Thanks for clearing that up, Rutgers.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2020, 10:03:36 PM
Lol. I thought the same thing as I read it.  Thanks for clearing that up, Rutgers. 
When did Rutger get its "s" back?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 20, 2020, 10:18:17 PM
When did Rutger get its "s" back?
I go way back with Rutgers. I would never disrespect them by talking their “s.” Those of us who grew up on Eastern Independent football are allowed to make fun of them but when you bullies in the Big Ten do it it’s piling on. 😉
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on July 20, 2020, 10:50:47 PM
so a federal judge that was assigned to Jeffrey Epstein case 4 days ago has her son shot and killed and her husband shot and in critical condition after a fake FedEx driver shows up to her house and pretends to deliver a package only to whip out a gun and blast them away. 

What happens to this assassin? He “shoots” himself, just like Epstein “hung” himself. 

I’m not one for conspiracy theories but HOLEEEE shit. This Epstein shit is like a movie. Wouldn’t believe any of it if someone told me about it. I’d say ya go screw yourself you lunatic. Jesus.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 20, 2020, 10:57:28 PM
so a federal judge that was assigned to Jeffrey Epstein case 4 days ago has her son shot and killed and her husband shot and in critical condition after a fake FedEx driver shows up to her house and pretends to deliver a package only to whip out a gun and blast them away.

What happens to this assassin? He “shoots” himself, just like Epstein “hung” himself.

I’m not one for conspiracy theories but HOLEEEE shit. This Epstein shit is like a movie. Wouldn’t believe any of it if someone told me about it. I’d say ya go screw yourself you lunatic. Jesus.
If she had died, it would have just about no actual impact on the case. The "assassin" was by many accounts a kinda disturbed and damaged man. 

People by nature are good at seeing patterns if they're there or not. The conspiracy nonsense around that guy, lordy. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on July 20, 2020, 11:04:27 PM
If she had died, it would have just about no actual impact on the case. The "assassin" was by many accounts a kinda disturbed and damaged man.

People by nature are good at seeing patterns if they're there or not. The conspiracy nonsense around that guy, lordy.
There are a lot of people in finance who actually knew Epstein and say he’s basically a god damn moron when it comes to finance, and that he doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground. He also seems to have mysteriously been given a $50+ million home in Manhattan by Limited clothing company founder Les Wexner for no apparent reason at all. Not purchased, not bartered, just given. Seems odd as shit to just give someone a $50+ million home like that for no reason, no?

His ex-girlfriend, pedo partner in crime Ghisaline Maxwell by the way was the daughter of a very wealthy man named Robert Maxwell, who was an Israeli Mossad asset, who died mysteriously in a yachting accident.

Not to mention, former NYC chief medical examiner who has that show on HBO says the 3 fractures in Epstein’s neck are inconsistent with death by hanging, and that the fractures suggest that Epstein was strangled to death.

Oh yeah, not to mention that sweetheart deal Epstein was given by US Attorney in Miami Alex Acosta- who claims he was told that Epstein was intelligence and that he was told its above his pay grade and to give him that deal.

I’d bet my left pinky Epstein was a Mossad asset as well.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on July 20, 2020, 11:17:10 PM

you gents have no idea how much fun i have with the whole Epstein conspiracy thing... or, maybe you do.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 20, 2020, 11:35:48 PM
There are a lot of people in finance who actually knew Epstein and say he’s basically a god damn moron when it comes to finance, and that he doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground. He also seems to have mysteriously been given a $50+ million home in Manhattan by Limited clothing company founder Les Wexner for no apparent reason at all. Not purchased, not bartered, just given. Seems odd as shit to just give someone a $50+ million home like that for no reason, no?

His ex-girlfriend, pedo partner in crime Ghisaline Maxwell by the way was the daughter of a very wealthy man named Robert Maxwell, who was an Israeli Mossad asset, who died mysteriously in a yachting accident.

Not to mention, former NYC chief medical examiner who has that show on HBO says the 3 fractures in Epstein’s neck are inconsistent with death by hanging, and that the fractures suggest that Epstein was strangled to death.

Oh yeah, not to mention that sweetheart deal Epstein was given by US Attorney in Miami Alex Acosta- who claims he was told that Epstein was intelligence and that he was told its above his pay grade and to give him that deal.

I’d bet my left pinky Epstein was a Mossad asset as well.
I reiterate the lordy from the previous post. 

Also, if you're willing to be a body part on a detail in a conspiracy theory, I can't help but doubt the voracity of your statement "I’m not one for conspiracy theories."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on July 20, 2020, 11:42:00 PM
I don't think Rutgers had a home crowd bigger than 500 for a single volleyball match last year.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 20, 2020, 11:47:56 PM
I don't think Rutgers had a home crowd bigger than 500 for a single volleyball match last year.
628 vs Nebraska. Only that one. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 21, 2020, 12:02:42 AM
The Gorge is my neck of the woods. Live less than 5 minutes from the bridge.

For me the coolest part was how much time the high bridge over the gorge shaves off of the commute, vs the old road across which is still there. The old road zigs and zags back and forth, all the way down one wall of the canyon. Then the bridge across is clear down there by the water. Then you have to zig zag your way back up the other wall of the canyon. It took the better part of an hour to traverse the distance covered by the high bridge that you can zip across in maybe two or three minutes.

Before the high bridge was there it would have been a pretty big ordeal to have to cross the ravine, if you lived around there. Now it's just "Oh look, there's that gorge out the window. Oops, there it goes. You missed it." 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on July 21, 2020, 12:18:29 AM
I reiterate the lordy from the previous post.

Also, if you're willing to be a body part on a detail in a conspiracy theory, I can't help but doubt the voracity of your statement "I’m not one for conspiracy theories."
Yeah, it’s not a conspiracy theory. 

The dude was an intelligence asset. Look into it for more than 30 seconds, why don’t you. 

When Michael Shermer- who doesn’t believe anything- ever- the founder of The Skeptics Society and editor in chief of Skeptic magazine is saying there is something there to the Epstein case- yeah says all you need to know. 

Take your head out of the sand pal.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on July 21, 2020, 12:49:42 AM
628 vs Nebraska. Only that one.
How did I not make that, obvious in retrospect, connection that they played @RU last year.  Match Club folks show up everywhere, even @Rutger.   
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 21, 2020, 12:58:47 AM
I ask myself... "How will digging into the Epstein case improve my life?"

Oddly, I keep coming up blank... Even if it is all a conspiracy, what's the endgame here? What's the payoff? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 21, 2020, 07:24:19 AM
I ask myself... "How will digging into the Epstein case improve my life?"

Oddly, I keep coming up blank... Even if it is all a conspiracy, what's the endgame here? What's the payoff?
I just want to know how he made all his money
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on July 21, 2020, 09:47:28 AM
I just want to know how he made all his money
Eric Weinstein, a mathematician, physicist, economist, and long-time hedge fund manager- who graduated from Harvard, worked for MIT, and had a research fellowship at Oxford- safe to say he's a really smart guy- and oh yeah he currently runs billionaire Peter Thiel's investment firm Thiel Capital - says Epstein was a construct and likely an Israeli Mossad asset. Weinstein interacted with Epstein over the years, tried to do deals with him- and Weinstein flat out says Epstein knew absolutely nothing about their industry- and that in his mind it was like Epstein was just an actor that was hired to play a hedge fund manager.

There are a lot of other people in finance who say the same shit about Epstein. And apparently there are zero records of any trades that Epstein has ever made.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2020, 09:56:39 AM
https://www.businessinsider.com/how-financier-jeffrey-epstein-made-his-fortune-2019-7 (https://www.businessinsider.com/how-financier-jeffrey-epstein-made-his-fortune-2019-7)



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on July 21, 2020, 09:59:35 AM
https://www.businessinsider.com/how-financier-jeffrey-epstein-made-his-fortune-2019-7 (https://www.businessinsider.com/how-financier-jeffrey-epstein-made-his-fortune-2019-7)


  • Jeffrey Epstein (https://www.businessinsider.com/category/jeffrey-epstein)'s various companies paid him $400 million between 1999 and his death, an analysis (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/business/jeffrey-epstein-southern-trust.html#click=https://t.co/gqqkd8uBTI) of public documents by The New York Times' Matthew Goldstein and Steve Eder found.
  • Court records estimated that Epstein's estate was worth $500 million, according to The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/business/jeffrey-epstein-southern-trust.html#click=https://t.co/gqqkd8uBTI). Most of his wealth has been held in the US Virgin Islands (https://www.vox.com/2018/12/3/18116351/jeffrey-epstein-indictment-arrested-trump-clinton-acosta) since at least 1996.
  • Epstein's wealth comes from his privately held companies, with a substantial portion of it made by handling the $6.7 billion fortune of L Brands (https://www.businessinsider.com/category/l-brands) CEO Les Wexner, according to Bloomberg (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-07-08/the-mystery-around-jeffrey-epstein-s-fortune-and-how-he-made-it).

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/07/hedge-funders-have-some-thoughts-on-what-epstein-was-doing.html


Kass was well-connected on Wall Street, where he’d worked for decades, so he began to ask around. “I went to my institutional brokers, to their trading desks and asked if they ever traded with him. I did it a few times until the date when he was arrested,” he recalls. “Not one institutional trading desk, primary or secondary, had ever traded with Epstein’s firm.”

When a reporter came to interview Kass about Bernie Madoff shortly before that firm blew up in the biggest Ponzi scheme ever, Kass told her, “There’s another guy who reminds me of Madoff that no one trades with.” That man was Jeffrey Epstein.

“How did he get the money?” Kass kept asking.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 21, 2020, 10:27:31 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/SEbLy0w.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 21, 2020, 10:52:22 AM
I don't care how Epstein acquired money, unless it was payment for sex with innocent men, women, and especially children.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 21, 2020, 11:03:35 AM
Wow - Ohio Speaker of the House Larry Householder arrested on federal charges
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2020, 11:09:21 AM
$60 million bribery case?  Zounds.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 21, 2020, 11:19:30 AM
I printed all of the window graphics and whatnot for all of Les Wexner's various corporations for a few years, back in the mid 20-ots, and there was some sorta local swingers club that he either owned or funded. They would periodically order huge purple penis silhouettes, presumably to hang on the walls or from the ceiling, or wherever else, and just put it on his tab.

I know that doesn't automatically make him a chomo by any stretch, but it was still a little bit "strange" to say the least of it.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on July 21, 2020, 12:02:02 PM
This is not economics.

It would imply that if you simply tax more and regulate more, you will create higher wages/costs/such. That is almost assuredly incorrect.

I'm sure there's some luck factors, what with the placement of silicon valley, but for a variety of reasons, it's an extremely attractive place to live and that demand drives up all the other nonsense.
Sorry, but if the cost of living is very high in an area, the major way you are going to get people to work there is if you offer a higher wage unless there is some other factor that would make people work there. So the question would be why is the cost of living so high in California and one of the reasons I pointed out was they extreme Taxes, fees, levies, etc put on building a house by the local and state governments in California. And if you don't think that is a large factor in the high cost of living in California I don't know what to tell you. 

My undergraduate degree is in Economics, so I am not stupid about it. I will grant I used a simplification of "1 Factor" in the reason for higher salaries in California, but I assumed you didn't want to read a 20 page dissertation on why salaries in general are high in California and would accept they fact the the cost of housing is a factor in it. 

If you want (nevermind I don't want) we could get into a whole discussion of causation vs Correlation  

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2020, 12:07:38 PM
Land is expensive in parts of CA for obvious reasons.  I'm sure an acre lot in SF would be pricey because of that demand thing.

SF also has a lot of codes preventing a developed from tearing down four story buildings and putting up a 60 story condo tower.

As you move further out into the hinterlands, land gets cheaper, obviously, I suspect that is true in general.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on July 21, 2020, 12:25:16 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/SEbLy0w.jpg)
Lmao. It actually looks like Jennifer Anniston.

And yeah, 2020 has been a SHIT year.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on July 21, 2020, 12:29:13 PM
Land is expensive in parts of CA for obvious reasons.  I'm sure an acre lot in SF would be pricey because of that demand thing.

SF also has a lot of codes preventing a developed from tearing down four story buildings and putting up a 60 story condo tower.

As you move further out into the hinterlands, land gets cheaper, obviously, I suspect that is true in general.

There is land in Miami/FtLaud/Palm Beach area that goes for tens of millions of dollars an acre. Drive 6-8 hours away in butt f***k Egypt central/northern Florida and you can buy acreage for few thousand dollars an acre.

Location, location, location. Baby.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on July 21, 2020, 12:31:34 PM
I don't care how Epstein acquired money, unless it was payment for sex with innocent men, women, and especially children.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmYFnnKbBk4
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on July 21, 2020, 12:32:50 PM
Wow - Ohio Speaker of the House Larry Householder arrested on federal charges
wasn't it Truman that said show me a rich politician and I'll show you a crook.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2020, 12:57:06 PM
Yeah, land cost is often the reason a place is ultra-expensive in which to live.  Try Paris.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on July 21, 2020, 01:12:28 PM
Has Iggy Pop ever looked young?
Sort of like Michael McDonald, he's looked 50+ since he was 20.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2020, 01:18:11 PM
wasn't it Truman that said show me a rich politician and I'll show you a crook.
It's amazing how much wealth these people accumulate while holding public office. You know it's not right. We all do.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 21, 2020, 01:18:44 PM
and yet it's allowed to continue
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2020, 01:26:06 PM
and yet it's allowed to continue
Of course. They make all the laws.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 21, 2020, 01:37:05 PM
I might put on a mask and lead a peaceful protest on this issue
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 21, 2020, 01:41:16 PM
Sorry, but if the cost of living is very high in an area, the major way you are going to get people to work there is if you offer a higher wage unless there is some other factor that would make people work there. So the question would be why is the cost of living so high in California and one of the reasons I pointed out was they extreme Taxes, fees, levies, etc put on building a house by the local and state governments in California. And if you don't think that is a large factor in the high cost of living in California I don't know what to tell you.

My undergraduate degree is in Economics, so I am not stupid about it. I will grant I used a simplification of "1 Factor" in the reason for higher salaries in California, but I assumed you didn't want to read a 20 page dissertation on why salaries in general are high in California and would accept they fact the the cost of housing is a factor in it.

If you want (nevermind I don't want) we could get into a whole discussion of causation vs Correlation 
Land is expensive in parts of CA for obvious reasons.  I'm sure an acre lot in SF would be pricey because of that demand thing.

SF also has a lot of codes preventing a developed from tearing down four story buildings and putting up a 60 story condo tower.

As you move further out into the hinterlands, land gets cheaper, obviously, I suspect that is true in general.
The point I was trying to make, and the point I think @bayareabadger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1571) is that the cost of living in California did not become high due to government, but that government is certainly a factor. 

The cost of living is high in California because a bunch of people want to live here. And the cost is particularly high in places where "new construction" isn't a driver of cost, it's *much* more due to simple supply and demand of a market overwhelmingly dominated by existing housing stock rather than new builds.

Most of the Bay Area is like this. The good jobs are mostly on the peninsula. People don't want to have to fight traffic from Morgan Hill or Livermore to get to their cushy job in Palo Alto, so housing is ridiculously expensive there. It's not new builds; it's existing. 

Where I live (Mission Viejo, Orange County), most of the housing was built in the 70's. The house I rent is a 1200 sf 3bdr/2ba house desperately in need of a nearly total remodel to be anything approaching modern and desirable, and it would likely sell for over $600K. I could hop over to Lake Elsinore and get a 4 bdr >2500 sf relatively new house for under $500K. But I don't want to because Lake Elsinore is hot af, and sucks, and there's no way my wife would battle traffic to get to her job in Newport Beach every day. 

There are things that government does to cause housing problems, as Cincy points out... One of the key is restricting high-density housing and restricting where things can be built. That reduces possible housing stock and drives up demand relative to supply. Although what you'll find is that the people who live in those areas--NOT the government--are the ones pushing so hard against high-density housing. Because they don't want poor(er) people to move into their community. It's NIMBY attitudes that restrict housing supply more than government decree. 

Another thing is general taxation and other things affecting cost of living. In CA, for example, property taxes are relatively low as a percentage, but given the cost of housing they can still be high in absolute terms. CA sales tax is high. CA income tax is high. CA environmental regulations (and state gas excise taxes) ensure that gasoline is more expensive here than almost anywhere else in the US. But if this is the case, we're talking about maybe a few percent addition to cost of living, MUCH lower than housing.

But I think the permit fees / etc that you bring up are probably a lower portion of the reason that housing is so expensive, because the places where those exist are the places where housing is ALREADY expensive and usually where the bulk of the housing stock is existing and not new construction.

Housing is expensive here because people want to live here. Government makes it worse, because they can get away with it, because people want to live here
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2020, 01:47:18 PM
Yeah, I am agreeing with that.  Regulations and what not can make construction more expensive, but in elite areas, it's the land that is most of the cost, because it's in short supply in desirable areas and they don't usually make more of it.    High demand makes land pricier.

The cost of building a house near LA might be 20% higher than here, but the price of a half acre of land would be much higher.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 21, 2020, 01:54:12 PM
Yeah, I am agreeing with that.  Regulations and what not can make construction more expensive, but in elite areas, it's the land that is most of the cost, because it's in short supply in desirable areas and they don't usually make more of it.    High demand makes land pricier.

The cost of building a house near LA might be 20% higher than here, but the price of a half acre of land would be much higher.
Yeah, but even more than that what I'm saying is that you can't even buy 1/2 acre unimproved lot in Los Angeles. Everything is already built up. 

So you have to buy land, tear down whatever is on it, and start anew. And if you can afford to do that, well the government will make sure they get a cut!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2020, 02:11:17 PM
Yup.  There is about a quarter acre "lot" near us, it's an old filling station that is now a bike rental place, and a small derelict building next to it.  Both are for sale, but there is a height restriction of four stories.  Some group applied for a variance to build condos to 7 stories.  It was denied.  The lot is so small that any condo building of 4 stories would not be large enough, especially if you have on premise parking.  They have to excavate granite to put that underground.

The new projects here are mostly going in where surface parking lots existed, some tear down 80 year old houses.  The four story limit doesn't apply once you get 400 feet off the park.

When I was last in LA, there was a lot of residential construction out in Riverside (where I had to go a few times), 60 miles or so east.  Land then no doubt was cheaper and more available.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 21, 2020, 02:13:46 PM
plenty of cheap land with very good water supply in North Dakota
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 21, 2020, 02:15:26 PM


Thought Badge was working on a Great Lake for Iowa - what Happened?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2020, 02:22:55 PM

Thought Badge was working on a Great Lake for Iowa - what Happened?
The permitting and regulatory process is killing me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2020, 02:24:33 PM
Back when I first started in business, I did a lot of work on Chicago's North Shore. Glencoe, Winnetka, Kenilworth.

A client told me that a demo permit alone (no vacant land left) cost him about $50K. That's in Y2K. I have no idea how much they charge today.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 21, 2020, 02:28:33 PM
$50K

that's more than my house cost back in 89
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on July 21, 2020, 02:30:24 PM
Yeah, but even more than that what I'm saying is that you can't even buy 1/2 acre unimproved lot in Los Angeles. Everything is already built up.

So you have to buy land, tear down whatever is on it, and start anew. And if you can afford to do that, well the government will make sure they get a cut!
This is the problem in South Florida as well. Lady from up north bought a complete piece of shit built in the 70's originally for $1.2 million cash, and is spending $600k with us to completely gut it and renovate it and raise the ceiling, and she spent another $100k on the pool before she even met us, and she probably spent another $50-60k on a door package.

Once that house is all done though, she'd be able to sell it easy for around $3 million.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2020, 03:00:09 PM
In NW Atlanta, a lot of 1950s houses are being bought up for over a million, and torn down, to build mansions.  I'm sure this happens everywhere.  That area was built up with large lots, 2-3-4 acres, back 1955ish.  The houses were very nice, for that era, often sprawling ranches.  The property now is where the value is.

Some of the new houses there are really eye popping, it's hard to believe that many people have this kind of money.

And of course here the cost of the house itself is relatively inexpensive.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2020, 03:00:51 PM
https://twitter.com/RedditCFB/status/1281308575638253570 (https://twitter.com/RedditCFB/status/1281308575638253570)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2020, 03:01:37 PM
https://twitter.com/RedditCFB/status/1281308701941358592 (https://twitter.com/RedditCFB/status/1281308701941358592)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 21, 2020, 03:04:34 PM
When I was last in LA, there was a lot of residential construction out in Riverside (where I had to go a few times), 60 miles or so east.  Land then no doubt was cheaper and more available.
I don't know how long ago that was, but Riverside is still considered "cheap" compared to LA County and Orange County. However, it's a lot more built up there than Lake Elsinore. I chose Lake Elsinore specifically because there are only two ways to go east from Orange County--one is the 91 freeway which makes me want to inject coronavirus directly into my eyeballs every time I have to drive it in traffic. The other is Hwy 74 (Ortega Highway) which is a winding mountain road that connects south OC to the inland counties, and right on the other side of the hills is Lake Elsinore. If I was trying to move inland I'd avoid the 91, so Lake Elsinore would be my only shot. However it's a long way south from any of the LA/Riverside County businesses, and a long way north from the San Diego metro, which is why it's so cheap. 

Looking at Zillow, it kinda looks like if you want 4bdr under $500K in Riverside, you are maxed out around 2000 sf. Still MUCH less expensive than here. Within Mission Viejo, I just looked up 4br places under $800K. There are only 5 listings in the entire city, and the lowest price is $749K. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2020, 03:05:16 PM
UGA is claiming it will play UVA and Tech this year.  The three games to be played in the dome hear are said to be "on" with limited seating.  I neither believe nor disbelieve any of this.

Money will find a way.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2020, 03:07:39 PM
Yeah Riverside was so far out the land was still affordable so they had a building boom.  The houses there were not stratospherically priced at that time.

I was doing some work with a prof at UC-R.  I looked at some adds in eastern CA up north near the Sierra that had properties pretty reasonably priced, some nice cabins, 4 bdr, etc.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on July 21, 2020, 03:13:31 PM
The cost of real estate in the San Francisco Bay Area is a function of supply and demand. To the extent the government has played a role, it's primarily that local jurisdictions that approve land use spent the last fifty years preventing multi-unit housing, which has prevented the housing stock from growing at a rate commensurate with the job growth (the area is essentially geographically constrained with a ring of high hills (arguably mountains, but not relative to the Sierra Nevada), and only limited ingress/egress on highways and rail. More demand, static supply=more expensive. Although the abundance of good paying jobs impacts that, people here with high paying jobs make far less relative to the cost of living, than people with similar jobs elsewhere. Example: a huge cohort of former colleagues just moved (by company edict) to the beltway in Virginia/Maryland. They all moved into relative mansions compared to what they had here. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 21, 2020, 03:22:39 PM
Sorry, but if the cost of living is very high in an area, the major way you are going to get people to work there is if you offer a higher wage unless there is some other factor that would make people work there. So the question would be why is the cost of living so high in California and one of the reasons I pointed out was they extreme Taxes, fees, levies, etc put on building a house by the local and state governments in California. And if you don't think that is a large factor in the high cost of living in California I don't know what to tell you.

My undergraduate degree is in Economics, so I am not stupid about it. I will grant I used a simplification of "1 Factor" in the reason for higher salaries in California, but I assumed you didn't want to read a 20 page dissertation on why salaries in general are high in California and would accept they fact the the cost of housing is a factor in it.

If you want (nevermind I don't want) we could get into a whole discussion of causation vs Correlation 


Hey, a fellow econ major!

Perhaps I read what you wrote incorrectly. Perhaps that post wasn't clear. But our friend Bwar said Ca pays lots of taxes, and your short answer was "It is your state's choice to overregulate, over tax." Evidence of a large tax base was presented, and you quickly wrote that it was strongly linked to government meddling. 

You used the word choice. I read that for what it was. And I thought about the alternative to that choice and if other places could apply the same choice, and it went against huge swaths of what I was told by all those econ professors. 

I appreciate an econ major, but as one, you had to expect someone might call that out unless you add a mighty qualification somewhere. It might be about a bubble, which is in the vein you're describing. I don't need 20 pages. But if you're gonna jump in that the government is making houses more expensive and that is big in raising salaries, yes, I'd ask for a little lip service to the level of demand/overall economic productivity that is driving it. Put it another way, a situation where pricy government meddling leads to a growth in even just perceived wealth goes against a lot of economic thinking. So just throwing it out unqualified might just get some pushback. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on July 21, 2020, 03:23:36 PM
Yeah, land cost is often the reason a place is ultra-expensive in which to live.  Try Paris.
Ugh. I wish. I love Paris. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 21, 2020, 03:26:36 PM
The cost of real estate in the San Francisco Bay Area is a function of supply and demand. To the extent the government has played a role, it's primarily that local jurisdictions that approve land use spent the last fifty years preventing multi-unit housing, which has prevented the housing stock from growing at a rate commensurate with the job growth (the area is essentially geographically constrained with a ring of high hills (arguably mountains, but not relative to the Sierra Nevada), and only limited ingress/egress on highways and rail. More demand, static supply=more expensive. Although the abundance of good paying jobs impacts that, people here with high paying jobs make far less relative to the cost of living, than people with similar jobs elsewhere. Example: a huge cohort of former colleagues just moved (by company edict) to the beltway in Virginia/Maryland. They all moved into relative mansions compared to what they had here.


It's also led to a lot of really nice older houses getting broken into like 2-4 apartments. 

It's also interesting that some of those cities are letting in more high rises, which is overwhelming the infrastructure in other spots. It's a theoretical bubble, but the damn thing ain't popping, at least yet. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on July 21, 2020, 03:27:46 PM
It's amazing how much wealth these people accumulate while holding public office. You know it's not right. We all do.
Pelosi is worth what? $200 million? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2020, 03:32:13 PM
Ugh. I wish. I love Paris.
I tell people it's my least favorite French city, which leaves many perplexed if they didn't pay attention.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 21, 2020, 04:10:38 PM
Pelosi is worth what? $200 million?
That’s from a meme that was not truthful. 

She and her husband are worth an estimated $114, I think. He runs a real estate and venture capital group of some sort. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 21, 2020, 04:18:16 PM
I'm an electrical engineer. The ideal place for me to live, career-wise, is the Bay Area.

I don't have any desire to do so, because the cost of living so far outstrips the pay that I can command relative to other places. 

It's a theoretical bubble, but the damn thing ain't popping, at least yet.
I wonder to what extent the trends that were starting pre-COVID (remote work increasing more and more) will change this?

It doesn't necessarily take much. Often these things, driven by behavior at the margins, can create large differences. 

While there are undoubtedly network effects due to having people near each other, I think those are weakening due to technology and communication improvements.

One part of it, not even being true WFH, is setting up satellite offices in less expensive places. Even for jobs that can't really be done "from home", distributed teams are becoming more and more productive due to technology. Places like Boulder, CO aren't cheap. But they're a heck of a lot cheaper than Silicon Valley, they're in close proximity to an excellent engineering school (can attract graduates), and they offer many of the cultural advantages of places like California with close access to Denver. It's still a "magnet" city to much of the surrounding states, so you can draw regionally too. 

By distributing some teams regionally you can reduce some of the housing pressure on places like Silicon Valley. 

The other aspect is a partial-WFH scenario. Let's say I work for a company in Sunnyvale. If I have to go into the office 5 days a week, I'm going to consider my commute one of my key quality of life metrics. I'm not going to live in Scott's Valley and have to brave Hwy 17 over the hill every day. Nor am I going to live in Pleasanton and battle the 680/880 hell every day. I'd consider it not worth it, so I'd end up paying more, sacrificing quality of life in other ways (price, square footage), even though the housing markets in Scotts Valley or Pleasanton might be more to my liking. 

Now imagine I WFH 3-4 days a week and only come in to the office 1-2 days a week based on a certain meeting schedule when we try to get everyone into one place... Now I might take a different look at commute vs. housing tradeoffs, because the commute doesn't happen as often. Maybe I'll live in Scotts Valley or Pleasanton, or even Gilroy because I love the smell of garlic. 

Partial WFH would reduce some pressure on Bay Area housing costs because people would be more willing to live farther away from their job if they knew that they didn't have to fight that traffic every single day. 

Will a change to a more remote workforce be what pops that bubble?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 21, 2020, 04:26:27 PM
I'm an electrical engineer. The ideal place for me to live, career-wise, is the Bay Area.

I don't have any desire to do so, because the cost of living so far outstrips the pay that I can command relative to other places.
I wonder to what extent the trends that were starting pre-COVID (remote work increasing more and more) will change this?

It doesn't necessarily take much. Often these things, driven by behavior at the margins, can create large differences.

While there are undoubtedly network effects due to having people near each other, I think those are weakening due to technology and communication improvements.

One part of it, not even being true WFH, is setting up satellite offices in less expensive places. Even for jobs that can't really be done "from home", distributed teams are becoming more and more productive due to technology. Places like Boulder, CO aren't cheap. But they're a heck of a lot cheaper than Silicon Valley, they're in close proximity to an excellent engineering school (can attract graduates), and they offer many of the cultural advantages of places like California with close access to Denver. It's still a "magnet" city to much of the surrounding states, so you can draw regionally too.

By distributing some teams regionally you can reduce some of the housing pressure on places like Silicon Valley.

The other aspect is a partial-WFH scenario. Let's say I work for a company in Sunnyvale. If I have to go into the office 5 days a week, I'm going to consider my commute one of my key quality of life metrics. I'm not going to live in Scott's Valley and have to brave Hwy 17 over the hill every day. Nor am I going to live in Pleasanton and battle the 680/880 hell every day. I'd consider it not worth it, so I'd end up paying more, sacrificing quality of life in other ways (price, square footage), even though the housing markets in Scotts Valley or Pleasanton might be more to my liking.

Now imagine I WFH 3-4 days a week and only come in to the office 1-2 days a week based on a certain meeting schedule when we try to get everyone into one place... Now I might take a different look at commute vs. housing tradeoffs, because the commute doesn't happen as often. Maybe I'll live in Scotts Valley or Pleasanton, or even Gilroy because I love the smell of garlic.

Partial WFH would reduce some pressure on Bay Area housing costs because people would be more willing to live farther away from their job if they knew that they didn't have to fight that traffic every single day.

Will a change to a more remote workforce be what pops that bubble?
You’re going through a convo I’ve had with a lot of folks back home.

I’d be excited for a burst, but that thing has proven super resilient. I wonder about just being able to be in even mildly less congested places. Like if you could trade outer Bay Area for more interesting Atlanta, to say nothing of a boat load of acres in the Tennessee countryside.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 21, 2020, 04:51:47 PM
I want to get out of here, honestly. For my career and specialty, ideal places career-wise would be the Bay Area, Seattle, Denver, Austin, RTP, and maybe the Boston area. 




So if I can get over the idea of going to court and trying to get the kids for the school year and send them to their mom's for the summers (which she'll fight tooth and nail because she can't afford to keep her lifestyle without my alimony/child support and without money she gets from the state that she'd lose if she didn't have the autistic 11 year old to care for), or if I can get over the idea of leaving and only having then for the summers, I very might become utee's neighbor. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 21, 2020, 04:54:26 PM
you don't have to go to Austin

try Round Rock, TX
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 21, 2020, 04:55:33 PM
I want to get out of here, honestly. For my career and specialty, ideal places career-wise would be the Bay Area, Seattle, Denver, Austin, RTP, and maybe the Boston area.


  • Bay Area: ideal for career, and I love the weather, but eliminated due to cost of living, taxation, etc.
  • Seattle: Also good for career, but it's blown up SO much over the last couple decades with Microsoft and Amazon that cost of living is horrible, and traffic is just outright absurd.
  • Denver: Potential to transfer with my current job (and current salary). Weather is great--although it gets cold in the winter it's not Midwest-level cold. Low humidity / few mosquitoes in the summer. Cost of living is pretty good, especially in some of the places I'd consider living. Culturally I love it--Denver is one of my favorite cities.
  • Austin: Potential to transfer with my current job (and current salary). Weather is too hot for my tastes, but that's what air conditioning is for, right? Temperate winters. Good culturally, with great food/music/entertainment scene. Good cost of living, I think taxes are pretty moderate.
  • RTP: I'd probably need a job change for this, but it's a good place for engineers. I'd be only 2-3 hrs from my best friend who moved to Charlotte. Weather is temperate, but a little humid and too many mosquitoes in the summer. Cost of living is manageable.
  • Boston/Northeast: No desire to live there whatsoever. It seems so culturally different from me to be foreign, and I can't even explain why. Weather sucks.


So if I can get over the idea of going to court and trying to get the kids for the school year and send them to their mom's for the summers (which she'll fight tooth and nail because she can't afford to keep her lifestyle without my alimony/child support and without money she gets from the state that she'd lose if she didn't have the autistic 11 year old to care for), or if I can get over the idea of leaving and only having then for the summers, I very might become utee's neighbor.
I’ve been to some of those places and talked to people from some of the others. The irksome part is all of them outside RTP have some of the same issues, but to different degrees.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 21, 2020, 05:14:43 PM
DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) — Iowa egg producers who euthanized hens as a result of plummeting demand caused by the coronavirus will be eligible for government payments to cover disposal costs, a state agency announced Monday.

The Iowa Disposal Assistance Program has been paying pork producers $40 for each market-ready hog they have been forced to euthanize as a result of supply chain disruptions.

Thousands of hogs were killed statewide as processing plants slowed production in April and May due to coronavirus outbreaks.

On Monday, the Iowa Department of Agriculture and Land Stewardship said the program would be extended for another round of funding and expanded to benefit egg producers.


The department said 70 percent of Iowa egg-laying hen flocks produce for the liquid egg market, which serves restaurants and schools. Demand plummeted as a result of closures that began in March, and the price of liquid eggs dropped by 68 percent. Producers responded by reducing the size of their flocks.

Egg producers will be eligible for 25 cents for each hen that they euthanized and disposed of between April 1 and July 20. They must provide proof of disposal and other documentation when they apply beginning Aug. 6.

Pork producers will be eligible for payments for hogs and pigs disposed of through July 20.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2020, 05:34:01 PM
I’ve been to some of those places and talked to people from some of the others. The irksome part is all of them outside RTP have some of the same issues, but to different degrees.
I've been to all of those places, and wouldn't choose any of them. West coast would be San Diego, or bust. No interest in any other of those cities out there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 21, 2020, 05:35:11 PM
you don't have to go to Austin

try Round Rock, TX
Well, obviously. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 21, 2020, 05:40:47 PM
I've been to all of those places, and wouldn't choose any of them. West coast would be San Diego, or bust. No interest in any other of those cities out there.
They’re all places I wouldn’t mind being, but their BS is generally the same kind of BS. 

In HS, I was a little enamored with the idea of San Diego. Then I figured out where UC San Diego actually was. Not in my college wheelhouse. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 21, 2020, 06:39:28 PM
I've been to all of those places, and wouldn't choose any of them. West coast would be San Diego, or bust. No interest in any other of those cities out there.
Oh I'd very much consider moving down to the San Diego area. I love it down there.

Only issue is that it's still close enough that my wife would still need to drive to her same office (Newport Beach) every day, and I'd probably end up maintaining the same schedule with the kids and end up having to drive them to Orange County for school when I had them. And although it's less expensive than here, it's not less expensive by enough to justify that extra driving/hassle. 

Otherwise I might have already done it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2020, 07:02:18 PM
Oh I'd very much consider moving down to the San Diego area. I love it down there.

Only issue is that it's still close enough that my wife would still need to drive to her same office (Newport Beach) every day, and I'd probably end up maintaining the same schedule with the kids and end up having to drive them to Orange County for school when I had them. And although it's less expensive than here, it's not less expensive by enough to justify that extra driving/hassle.

Otherwise I might have already done it.

I like the harbor at Oceanside. Town has a cool vibe.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 21, 2020, 07:12:39 PM
I like the harbor at Oceanside. Town has a cool vibe.
Oceanside is a strange mix... Being the farthest north from San Diego, it's the cheapest. Which means it also tends to be the area with a little more crime, etc.

But at the same time it's also where a bunch of Marines live, because it's at the front door to Camp Pendleton. Which means that you have a significant population of older Marines who work at the base (officers, NCO, etc) who are the type who keep their shit in line. But balanced against them you have some of the younger, testosterone-fueled Marines who might not have the, ahem, wisdom and restraint of their elders lol... 

All that being said, it's a place I might look at if I were under 30, but when looking for a much quieter scene I'd try to go a little farther south to Carlsbad. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2020, 07:21:16 PM
I hear ya. I just like that it has a Marina. I could live on a boat there, year-round.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2020, 07:41:53 PM
OBut balanced against them you have some of the younger, testosterone-fueled Marines who might not have the, ahem, wisdom and restraint of their elders lol...
I refuse to accept that ANY "younger Marines' are testosterone fueled and lacking in great wisdom, maturity, and depth.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2020, 07:46:16 PM
I refuse to accept that ANY "younger Marines' are testosterone fueled and lacking in great wisdom, maturity, and depth.
I hear that. My boy was nothing of the sort. Basic changed that kid - made him a man of responsibility and accountability. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2020, 07:54:09 PM
My son told me after graduation from PI "I can't believe I was what I used to be."

August 3.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 21, 2020, 08:14:42 PM
Would you maybe, just a little, venture to say that your boys were not 100% representative of all the young men going through basic?

My brother also says that he was changed, and that the USMC (he was just reserves at the time) got him onto the right path regarding discipline and focus.

I'd venture say that he, as well as your sons, started from a different place than many who went through the same program. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2020, 08:18:15 PM
Very likely. Our sons were raised right to start with, so I'm sure that played a part. The Corps reinforced their upbringing, I'm sure. I know mine came out with FAR more respect for me and Mrs. 847 than when he went in.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 22, 2020, 07:04:49 AM
My son went through the Air Force basic training (I know it is not the same as the Marines and he will readily admit that) and it did wonders for him. He also was raised correctly although he fought us every step of the way (takes after is mom LOL). But I can honestly say that he grew up a lot during basic compared with where he was prior. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2020, 07:31:47 AM
My two said Boot camp was not nearly as tough as they expected, FWIW.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 22, 2020, 09:04:05 AM
Are we allowed to call this a mass shooting? Hospitalizations are up in Chicago, but...


At least 15 people were shot Tuesday evening in an attack on people attending a funeral in the Gresham neighborhood and one person was in custody, authorities said.

Shots were fired at attendees of a funeral in the 1000 block of 79th Street from a black vehicle speeding west about 6:30 p.m. Tuesday, according to First Deputy Superintendent Eric Carter, who spoke at the scene Tuesday night.

The funeral attendees exchanged gunfire with those in the vehicle, he said. The vehicle then turned north on Carpenter Street, and shots continued to be fired at the funeral attendees, before the vehicle crashed midway down the block, Carter said. Those inside the vehicle fled.

A neighbor, who asked not to be identified, said it sounded like multiple weapons were used in the shooting.

The neighbor said multiple victims fell in front of a liquor store between a laundromat and a funeral home on 79th Street, and many were bleeding.


Fourteen victims were being treated at five area hospitals, Carter said.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 22, 2020, 09:07:21 AM
Are we allowed to call this a mass shooting? Hospitalizations are up in Chicago, but...


At least 15 people were shot Tuesday evening in an attack on people attending a funeral in the Gresham neighborhood and one person was in custody, authorities said.

Shots were fired at attendees of a funeral in the 1000 block of 79th Street from a black vehicle speeding west about 6:30 p.m. Tuesday, according to First Deputy Superintendent Eric Carter, who spoke at the scene Tuesday night.

The funeral attendees exchanged gunfire with those in the vehicle, he said. The vehicle then turned north on Carpenter Street, and shots continued to be fired at the funeral attendees, before the vehicle crashed midway down the block, Carter said. Those inside the vehicle fled.

A neighbor, who asked not to be identified, said it sounded like multiple weapons were used in the shooting.

The neighbor said multiple victims fell in front of a liquor store between a laundromat and a funeral home on 79th Street, and many were bleeding.


Fourteen victims were being treated at five area hospitals, Carter said.


No.  Your not allowed to discuss it don’t ya know. The Chicago Mayor wants you to focus on Orange Man Bad theme- as she was during this most recent slaying. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 22, 2020, 09:54:49 AM
How about this one? I do wonder why a 3 year old girl is in a car at 12:45 AM, but that's just me.


A 3-year-old girl is in serious condition after she was shot in the head as she rode in the back seat of her father’s SUV early Wednesday in the South Shore neighborhood, Chicago police said.

The girl was in the back seat of a white Chevrolet SUV when the shooting occurred at 12:45 a.m. in the 2400 block of East 74th Street, police said. Her parents told police they were driving when two men standing on the corner fired shots in their direction, hitting the child.

The parents flagged down another driver, who took them to Jackson Park Hospital, police said in a media notification. The girl was transferred to Comer Children’s Hospital in serious condition. The girl had a bullet lodged in her forehead, according to a source. She suffered scratches to the eye, possibly from shattered glass, according to the media notification.


It’s unknown who was the intended target, police said. The girl’s parents are not “known to police,” according to a media notification, which is police shorthand for saying that someone does not have a known criminal or arrest record.

The father’s SUV was found in the 2200 block of East 73rd Street, according to a law enforcement source. It had bullet holes and there was blood in the back seat.


Police have viewed security footage from a gas station at 75th Street and Yates Boulevard that show the father involved in what appeared to be an “illegal transaction” at one of the gas pumps with another man, the source said. During the transaction, there was a disagreement and the father got a handgun from his SUV and chased down the man.

Soon after, the city’s gunshot monitoring system, ShotSpotter, soon notified police about 11 rounds fired in the 2400 block of East 74th Street, the source said. Shell casing were found on the sidewalk in the block.

No arrests have been made.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2020, 09:58:34 AM
The funeral attendees exchanged gunfire with those in the vehicle

so, they were expecting some trouble and were packing?

sounds like a good fellas movie
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 22, 2020, 10:10:23 AM
Nah. 

Blame George Soros.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 22, 2020, 10:14:12 AM
Nah.

Blame George Soros.
Lol the ultimate bogeyman
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2020, 10:17:25 AM
worse than Bill Gates?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 22, 2020, 10:19:10 AM
worse than Bill Gates?
Yes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 22, 2020, 10:33:27 AM


I just don't see it that young folks have it tougher these days than prior generations

but, I'm a boomer and that's how boomers think

I also don't think this belongs on the virus thread
Correct. Topic moved.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2020, 10:35:32 AM
Correct. Topic moved.



and gun violence in Chicago and Omaha?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 22, 2020, 10:48:13 AM
and gun violence in Chicago and Omaha?
And George Soros.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on July 22, 2020, 10:51:57 AM
Speaking about young Marines: 

A guy I served with 20+ years ago passed through town last weekend.  He was here to see his son graduate crew chief school at the Air Station.   He was also here a few months back bringing him... 

Covid19 disallows large groups and complicated graduation.... so... we had a party at my place for the class.  

I had stacks of burgers and hotdogs, and a lot of drinks... ots blazing hot and humid here right now.  

To my amazement, and I truly mean amazement, those Marines were more interested in the pool and playing softball in the yard... not to say there wasn't some beer drank, but there were zero drunk... not a single one.   

I told my buddy nearing the end of the night "of this were us 30 years ago, we'd be houling at the moon and trying to figure out how to resup the beer situation"... he said that was exactly what he was thinking too.... 

This younger generation is different than we were.  A lot different.. and not all in a bad way, either. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 22, 2020, 11:10:52 AM
And George Soros.
The myth of that old finance guy is something to behold.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2020, 11:40:11 AM
why doesn't Warren Buffet ever get blamed for the world's demise?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2020, 11:42:42 AM
I'm about to go for my first ever MRI, which is entertaining in part because I did a portion of my graduate work using NMR which is its predecessor.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2020, 11:46:51 AM
Humans seem to like simple explanations for bad things, individuals often as not are behind it.  It can be the Kochs or Bill Gates, or Warren, or Soros, ... or any politicians of the other party of course.  It's his or her fault.

I think rarely is anything really the fault of one group or person or thing, but it simplifies life by demonizing it.

I suppose it's akin to blaming the RB for that late fumble while ignoring whatever else happened.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 22, 2020, 11:53:01 AM
The myth of that old finance guy is something to behold.
Except it's not a myth.

We know he has pumped $2 Million into the Cook County State's Attorneys coffers for the 2020 election, and that was just for the primary. He's done this in virtually every major US city.



https://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/2020/2/20/21146269/george-soros-kim-foxx-bill-conway-states-attorney
 (https://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/2020/2/20/21146269/george-soros-kim-foxx-bill-conway-states-attorney)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 22, 2020, 12:11:08 PM
Except it's not a myth.

We know he has pumped $2 Million into the Cook County State's Attorneys coffers for the 2020 election, and that was just for the primary. He's done this in virtually every major US city.



https://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/2020/2/20/21146269/george-soros-kim-foxx-bill-conway-states-attorney
 (https://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/2020/2/20/21146269/george-soros-kim-foxx-bill-conway-states-attorney)
The funniest part of that article is that the other guy had his dad financing his operation
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 22, 2020, 12:15:10 PM
Humans seem to like simple explanations for bad things, individuals often as not are behind it.  It can be the Kochs or Bill Gates, or Warren, or Soros, ... or any politicians of the other party of course. 
Left out Bezos
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on July 22, 2020, 12:19:01 PM
Boomers will be known as the generation of division.  They will be known as the generation of selfishness.

discuss...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 22, 2020, 12:22:39 PM
The funniest part of that article is that the other guy had his dad financing his operation
The other guy was an asshole too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on July 22, 2020, 12:22:54 PM
regarding who has it worse growing up... it's relative.   What do you consider worse?  My Dad lived without indoor plumbing for the first 10 years of his life.   My kids have to wear helmets to ride a bike and have to live with the idea that only bad parents let their kids ride bikes around town unsupervised.   Which is worse?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 22, 2020, 12:25:06 PM
Boomers will be known as the generation of division.  They will be known as the generation of selfishness.

discuss...
Hmm. I don't know if history will be that unkind. 

They will be known as the generation that came up with plenty and they will be known as one of the first generations to chase "doing what they loved" to one degree or another. 

They're the generation that saw the rise and fall of pensions, the mass expansion of personal debt on several fronts. That probably won't make the books, and is a broad brush to say the least. 

Then again, they won't write the history, so they might get crushed. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 22, 2020, 12:27:55 PM
regarding who has it worse growing up... it's relative.  What do you consider worse?  My Dad lived without indoor plumbing for the first 10 years of his life.  My kids have to wear helmets to ride a bike and have to live with the idea that only bad parents let their kids ride bikes around town unsupervised.  Which is worse?
Your dad grew up when?

(I don't think anyone is saying kids these days have less in the way of material comforts. And if those were the be-all, end-all, society is in awesome shape)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2020, 01:11:10 PM
My Dad was born 1917 in a house with no electricity, a well out back, and an outhouse.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2020, 01:21:35 PM
My father was born in 34 - had electricity, but no water or sewer
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2020, 01:30:50 PM
So, I see a doc this AM for my shoulder, get an X ray, he orders an MRI, which I just finished.  The wife laughed when I asked her if this would happen in France.  She's still laughing.

Rotator cuff, blown out in 1971.  I am going to shock everyone at fantasy camp this January.   I'm going to announce my presence with authority!

This guy is a first ball fast ball hitter.  I don't care, he ain't seen MY fastball.

I gotta a Porsche with a Blaupunkt sterao.

You don't need a blaupunkt, you need a curveball.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2020, 01:42:24 PM
perhaps my doc & ins company will allow an MRI on one of my ailing shoulders this november
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2020, 01:43:18 PM
The doc is pretty sure I have a blown rotator cuff, which is a very typical pitching injury of course, and he thinks he can fix it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2020, 01:43:40 PM
112 injured or killed in 83 shootings over 9 days in NYC: 'I haven't seen anything like this in my entire life'

It's not just Chicago.....

https://1010wins.radio.com/articles/112-victims-reported-in-83-shootings-over-9-days-in-nyc?fbclid=IwAR1yLHw5QPFWgtufveOD7MdwGNvi5COZS4u9ahG3z_mK0KavM4MZOr74JTQ (https://1010wins.radio.com/articles/112-victims-reported-in-83-shootings-over-9-days-in-nyc?fbclid=IwAR1yLHw5QPFWgtufveOD7MdwGNvi5COZS4u9ahG3z_mK0KavM4MZOr74JTQ)

this from June 28th
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on July 22, 2020, 02:01:36 PM
My dad was born in 1944.  They were very poor farmers.   Anything they had went into the farm first.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on July 22, 2020, 02:05:05 PM
112 injured or killed in 83 shootings over 9 days in NYC: 'I haven't seen anything like this in my entire life'

It's not just Chicago.....

https://1010wins.radio.com/articles/112-victims-reported-in-83-shootings-over-9-days-in-nyc?fbclid=IwAR1yLHw5QPFWgtufveOD7MdwGNvi5COZS4u9ahG3z_mK0KavM4MZOr74JTQ (https://1010wins.radio.com/articles/112-victims-reported-in-83-shootings-over-9-days-in-nyc?fbclid=IwAR1yLHw5QPFWgtufveOD7MdwGNvi5COZS4u9ahG3z_mK0KavM4MZOr74JTQ)

this from June 28th
And since the relationship with police is at an all time low, I doubt many of these shootings will be prosecuted.   Within 2021 I think questions will be asked about why more crime is not being solved.   jmo
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2020, 03:06:32 PM
police response times are up

police give a shit is down
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 22, 2020, 03:08:09 PM
Minnesota doesn't appear to have an offseason thread here, so I'm just gonna leave this here:


https://twitter.com/andygreder/status/1285660477427789829 (https://twitter.com/andygreder/status/1285660477427789829)



So sad. I can't remember what happened when Gameday made its first-ever appearance up there.

(thanks go out to a Badger team site for this gem)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 22, 2020, 03:09:43 PM
And since the relationship with police is at an all time low, I doubt many of these shootings will be prosecuted.  Within 2021 I think questions will be asked about why more crime is not being solved.  jmo
Not in Chicago. They get arrested, and go free on little to no bail. George Soros, and all that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 22, 2020, 03:14:08 PM
Minnesota doesn't appear to have an offseason thread here, so I'm just gonna leave this here:


https://twitter.com/andygreder/status/1285660477427789829 (https://twitter.com/andygreder/status/1285660477427789829)



So sad. I can't remember what happened when Gameday made its first-ever appearance up there.

(thanks go out to a Badger team site for this gem)
(https://i.imgur.com/iqXWBCP.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 22, 2020, 03:16:36 PM


Funny... Bar owners *were* shooting each other, to an extent, from about 1920->1933...

I can't imagine what was similar about that situation and now...

(This convo should probably be moved to 2020 SoU thread though).


Nah. The Outfit didn't own bars. They just offered "protection" and supplied the booze.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 22, 2020, 03:19:24 PM

Nah. The Outfit didn't own bars. They just offered "protection" and supplied the booze.

That's why I said "to an extent". The bar owners were at a lower level of the supply chain and the violence was largely carried out by their controllers... But they were all part of the same scheme. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 22, 2020, 03:31:24 PM
Not in Chicago. They get arrested, and go free on little to no bail. George Soros, and all that.
Are there a lot of people arrested for shootings that injure or kill getting low bail? Seems like a hole, but in general, the way bail functions in society is ... well not so ideal. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 22, 2020, 03:44:17 PM
Are there a lot of people arrested for shootings that injure or kill getting low bail? Seems like a hole, but in general, the way bail functions in society is ... well not so ideal.
They mostly suck at shooting, so most (if ever) are arrested and released. Generally, they are held when arrested for murder (if ever).

Another thing that bugs me is when "they" call it gun violence.

Guns are not violent.

I have several, and they are very well behaved.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 22, 2020, 04:44:26 PM
They mostly suck at shooting, so most (if ever) are arrested and released. Generally, they are held when arrested for murder (if ever).

Another thing that bugs me is when "they" call it gun violence.

Guns are not violent.

I have several, and they are very well behaved.
I mean, it’s the most efficient way to use the adjective. I suppose we could call it “violence with guns” or something. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 22, 2020, 04:51:56 PM
Gang violence. Call it what it is.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2020, 05:30:29 PM
It is rare that a rifle of any kind is used to commit a crime.  It's nearly always a pistol.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 22, 2020, 05:33:22 PM
Gang violence. Call it what it is.
Shrug. 

If it were bats or fists, it would be notably less dangerous. As the guns can’t be violent, they don’t have feelings that can be hurt either. Not much sense in having feelings for them. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 22, 2020, 05:35:23 PM
It is rare that a rifle of any kind is used to commit a crime.  It's nearly always a pistol.
Some shotguns too?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 22, 2020, 05:41:39 PM
My guns have feelings. Guns are people too. They are either happy, or violent. Mine are always happy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 22, 2020, 05:43:37 PM
My guns have feelings. Guns are people too. They are either happy, or violent. Mine are always happy.
Sure, you treat them well and never make them work. They're like well-fed pets. :93:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2020, 05:46:14 PM
Some shotguns too?
Aside from in movies, shotguns are rarely used to commit crimes, for obvious reasons.  The "saw off", which is illegal, can be used in some robberies, but the weapon of choice is far and away the 9 mm semiautomatic pistol, well over 90%.

So, banning "assault rifles" would do very little to violent crime statistics in Chicago, aside from the clear issue of how to define what is, or is not, an "assault rifle".

That's an interesting topic incidentally.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 22, 2020, 06:21:08 PM
Aside from in movies, shotguns are rarely used to commit crimes, for obvious reasons.  The "saw off", which is illegal, can be used in some robberies, but the weapon of choice is far and away the 9 mm semiautomatic pistol, well over 90%.

So, banning "assault rifles" would do very little to violent crime statistics in Chicago, aside from the clear issue of how to define what is, or is not, an "assault rifle".

That's an interesting topic incidentally.
I'd bet that's true with the well over 90. I wonder if it's the same ratio for civilian owned guns. 

And yeah, the "assault rifles" thing is mostly silly. The term is somewhat empty, and they're mostly toys anyway. Kinda a big whatever. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 22, 2020, 07:45:10 PM
I saw a sign for Echo Canyon today and stopped, for no other reason than that I remember seeing it on the Simpsons. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vIOLL1onwY&t=7s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vIOLL1onwY&t=7s)

I was the only person there, so I yelled some of the things that the Simpsons yelled.... and it really is a remarkable echo. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 22, 2020, 09:13:17 PM
It is rare that a rifle of any kind is used to commit a crime.  It's nearly always a pistol.
Well rifles are for killing groups of people.  Pistols are just for killing 1-2 nearby innocents.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 22, 2020, 09:14:19 PM
My guns have feelings. Guns are people too. They are either happy, or violent. Mine are always happy.
I wonder which party they contribute to.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2020, 09:30:06 PM
Well rifles are for killing groups of people.  Pistols are just for killing 1-2 nearby innocents.
Statistically, it's rare.  It's like cutting out creamer in your coffee while you're on a diet but having two slices of cheesecake and ice cream for lunch.

And of course, pistols can be used to kill groups of people, the difference is range.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 22, 2020, 09:58:51 PM
I wonder which party they contribute to.
If they are guns being used to silence someone with a different opinion/ definitely dem votes. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 23, 2020, 12:37:37 AM
Statistically, it's rare.  It's like cutting out creamer in your coffee while you're on a diet but having two slices of cheesecake and ice cream for lunch.

And of course, pistols can be used to kill groups of people, the difference is range.
I'll tell the dead people that statistically, their deaths were rare.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 23, 2020, 01:09:42 AM
Fun/tough quiz:

https://www.sporcle.com/games/HoosierDaddy/winsbydecade (https://www.sporcle.com/games/HoosierDaddy/winsbydecade)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on July 23, 2020, 01:41:45 AM
I'll tell the dead people that statistically, their deaths were rare.
(https://i.imgur.com/SQFfHVU.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2020, 07:33:49 AM
I'll tell the dead people that statistically, their deaths were rare.
Usually, logical people when viewing a problem attempt to formulate solutions for the larger aspects of the problem first, and focus there rather than on the tiny aspects of the problem.  Since the discussion is gun violence in Chicago, rifles simply are not the weapon of choice by the shooters, not even remotely close.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2020, 08:15:54 AM
I wonder which party they contribute to.
None of your business, and it matters none.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 23, 2020, 08:28:36 AM
Well rifles are for killing groups of people.  Pistols are just for killing 1-2 nearby innocents.
Tell that to the 33 people murdered on the campus of Virginia Tech a few years back. 

Guns have never killed anyone. People using guns kill other people, just as cars don't kill people. But there are many that die in car accidents every year. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 23, 2020, 08:29:38 AM
Usually, logical people when viewing a problem attempt to formulate solutions for the larger aspects of the problem first, and focus there rather than on the tiny aspects of the problem.  Since the discussion is gun violence in Chicago, rifles simply are not the weapon of choice by the shooters, not even remotely close.
Not unless you have an agenda. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 23, 2020, 08:31:25 AM
My guns have yet to harm anyone that I am aware of. However, my S&W .38 that was handed down from my grandfather, may have been used in self defense long prior to my ownership. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2020, 08:32:45 AM
The main differences between a rifle and a pistol is that:

1.  Rifles are more expensive.
2.  They are nearly impossible to carry covertly.
3.  They are more accurate at longer ranges (say over 30 yards).
4.  They generally produce high muzzle velocities with the same type of cartridge.

If your shooting "technique" is "spray and pray", the accuracy piece is largely irrelevant of course.

If I were looking to kill and wound a lot of people at close range, I'd probably start with a shotgun (presuming I can get a shotgun into the venue) to create panic and then go to pistols with 15+ round mags.



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 23, 2020, 09:22:24 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Ad6UFR4.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/QzNvSGm.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/IAWoFI1.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/oKX2dTN.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/l4MoxA7.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/PKoZadS.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/zpo0nAK.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/vAxhtT4.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/mudI1B5.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2020, 09:40:22 AM
Those are good.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 23, 2020, 09:48:33 AM
Person. Woman. Man. Camera. TV.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 23, 2020, 10:10:26 AM
I'll tell the dead people that statistically, their deaths were rare.
Why don't you tell the many more people that are going to be dead or in jail because because they lost everything while the government closed down their businesses while giving themselves raises and selling off the stocks with insider knowledge.And of course you toughening it out on the governments tit
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2020, 10:15:48 AM
There is nothing good about any of this thing. Deaths are bad. Businesses closing (for good) is bad. Losing a job is bad. Losing money is bad.


I can only hope that when (if) we come out of it, the general population here and abroad has enough resolve to do everything it can possibly do to erase China.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2020, 10:22:01 AM
Can't go to a bar in Chicago starting Friday, but the pot stores are open. 

Let's all sit home and stay stoned, all day long!!! What could go wrong?



Chicagoans have watched for months as “For Sale” and “For Rent” signs popped up in the windows of their favorite coffee joints and neighborhood bars, and they’ve wondered whether treasured restaurants ever will reopen.

A tally is in: The coronavirus pandemic has forced an estimated 4,400 businesses in the Chicago area to close, including 2,400 that say they won’t reopen.

The data, released Wednesday, comes from crowd-sourced business review platform Yelp.

Nationally, more than 132,500 businesses have permanently or temporarily closed since March, according to Yelp. Temporary business closures are decreasing nationally as some states reopen, but permanent closures are rising, accounting for 55% of all closed businesses.

The Chicago area has suffered the fourth-highest number of closures among the nation’s metro areas, behind Los Angeles, New York City and San Francisco.


Restaurants and retail have been the hardest-hit sectors in the Chicago area. According to Yelp’s data, more than 800 restaurants and 700 retail businesses have closed since March 1. More than 550 of those restaurants and 420 of those retailers will not reopen. Other sectors that have seen more than 350 businesses shutter include beauty services, home services and financial services.



Yelp gathered the data by counting businesses on its platform on March 1 and tallying how many of those owners had marked their businesses closed by July 10, either through changing hours or through a COVID-19 banner on its page. Business owners have the option to mark their business as either permanently or temporarily closed. The company then vetted the closures, and excluded one-day closures unrelated to the pandemic, such as Easter.

The company declined to disclose the total number of businesses on its platform.
The numbers could continue to rise with coronavirus cases, as Chicago rolls back some of its reopening plans.

Starting Friday, the city will limit indoor fitness classes to a maximum of 10 people and ban personal services requiring the removal of masks, such as shaves and facials. Bars that don’t sell food no longer will be able to serve alcohol indoors.


Mayor Lori Lightfoot’s administration announced the rollbacks Monday (https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-coronavirus-chicago-lightfoot-reimposing-bars-restrictions-20200720-4l526xi5gfemvfbdbu2gwxfcjm-story.html). That night, Guthrie’s Tavern in Lakeview announced it will close permanently (https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-food-chicago-guthries-tavern-closing-covid-20200721-7vnwt7tgrjer7io23re2vz3kiy-story.html) by the end of the week. “With the new restrictions set today for bars and the ongoing COVID restrictions, we don’t see a way we can survive,” said a post on Guthrie’s Facebook page.

The fate of many Chicago-area businesses lies in the reopening guidelines, and whether they’ll be able to operate and abide by them, said Tanya Triche Dawood, vice president and general counsel of the Illinois Retail Merchants Association. Few small businesses have “a ton of capital to rely on,” she said.


“These small businesses are really hurting,” she said. “The impact is real. You may not see a closed sign on the business, but that doesn’t mean that they’re not in trouble.”


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 23, 2020, 10:25:21 AM
I can only hope that when (if) we come out of it, the general population here and abroad has enough resolve to do everything it can possibly do to erase China.
The people will have to treat with the CCP.If they can pull that off then perhaps they can give us pointers on dealing with what ever it is we have in Washington
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2020, 10:26:51 AM
What we have in DC is a swamp.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 23, 2020, 11:52:00 AM
Can't go to a bar in Chicago starting Friday, but the pot stores are open.


Wouldn't the pot stores be more analogous to a liquor store than a full service bar? 

Nevada initially had everything shut down including the pot stores. 

Then they opened everything kinda all at once in late May/early June, but heavily regulated. Masks on the casino floor, every other machine turned off, so that folks can't sit side by side. Plastic dividers between each bar stool. Yet they all had their swimming pools open, with large unmasked crowds. 

Now the "bars" have all been closed. You can still order a drink from a cocktail waitress though. So what happens is while she is up there getting all the drinks, a bunch of random people will wander up to the bar and give her their drink orders. Which is basically the same thing as going up to the bar and ordering a drink directly from the barkeep. Only now there is a middle man that gets all of his tips. 

And as noted elsewhere, northern Nevada has opened all of their brothels back up, while all this nonsense with the bars is going on. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2020, 12:06:54 PM
Wouldn't the pot stores be more analogous to a liquor store than a full service bar?

Nevada initially had everything shut down including the pot stores.

Then they opened everything kinda all at once in late May/early June, but heavily regulated. Masks on the casino floor, every other machine turned off, so that folks can't sit side by side. Plastic dividers between each bar stool. Yet they all had their swimming pools open, with large unmasked crowds.

Now the "bars" have all been closed. You can still order a drink from a cocktail waitress though. So what happens is while she is up there getting all the drinks, a bunch of random people will wander up to the bar and give her their drink orders. Which is basically the same thing as going up to the bar and ordering a drink directly from the barkeep. Only now there is a middle man that gets all of his tips.

And as noted elsewhere, northern Nevada has opened all of their brothels back up, while all this nonsense with the bars is going on.
The liquor stores don't have the endless lines outside, and congregation problems (mostly - some do, in certain areas). I've seen the footage on TV.

But, your point is taken.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 23, 2020, 12:21:15 PM
Ahhh.  Good ole Chicago.  

The mayor stands idly by while numerous people are murdered every day, including children, but is now suddenly ready to take decisive action to stop federal law enforcement to assist.  She has threatened to go to court to prevent the federal assistance because it would “take away our peoples constitutional rights“.   

You can’t make this stuff up. Protect their constitutional rights from what? Killing someone? Being killed?

If it weren’t for the mayors of other big cities like the one in Portland, I would think she was the dumbest person on earth but she has peers 

Their TDS know no boundaries.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2020, 12:41:40 PM
She finally caved, last night. The Feds are coming, but they will not be policing. 

They will assist the CPD, which welcomes them with open arms. The Aldermen are also thankful.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2020, 12:46:27 PM
Would the Feds have to be deputized?  Murder (in general) is not a Federal crime, nor is much else that's happening there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 23, 2020, 12:53:44 PM
Would the Feds have to be deputized?  Murder (in general) is not a Federal crime, nor is much else that's happening there.
I’m pretty sure they don’t have to be deputized for crime prevention. They’re not there for after the fact prosecution.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2020, 12:56:55 PM
I’m pretty sure they don’t have to be deputized for crime prevention. They’re not there for after the fact prosecution.
It depends on their role, and if they are to have arrest powers.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2020, 01:04:23 PM
Would the Feds have to be deputized?  Murder (in general) is not a Federal crime, nor is much else that's happening there.
Most of the guns are coming in from out of state - mainly Indiana. Crossing state lines with an illegal gun used in a murder? Does that trigger the Fed?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2020, 01:07:11 PM
Most of the guns are coming in from out of state - mainly Indiana. Crossing state lines with an illegal gun used in a murder? Does that trigger the Fed?

An illegal gun?  That depends on whether the gun is actually illegal, as opposed to a person not allowed to have possession.

I would guess a lot of women are buying guns just over the line from Chicago.  Maybe there are a plethora of guns shops just over the line, like fireworks dealers.

Either way, guns are durable implements of course.  If the criminals have sat 10,000 guns illegally today, they probably have 9,950 the next day, at best.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2020, 01:12:40 PM
For a gun to be legal in Illinois, its owner must possess a FOID card. You cannot buy or own a gun legally without one.

None of these thugs have a FOID card, so any gun in their possession is illegal.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2020, 01:27:02 PM
For a gun to be legal in Illinois, its owner must possess a FOID card. You cannot buy or own a gun legally without one.

None of these thugs have a FOID card, so any gun in their possession is illegal.
That's a state law, not Federal.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 23, 2020, 01:28:54 PM
but, that's a state law
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2020, 02:05:35 PM
That's a state law, not Federal.


Right, but does transporting a stolen gun or gun without numbers across a state line illegal?

The thugs aren't going to a gun shop for their guns.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2020, 02:07:32 PM
If ATF catches someone in the act, it's Federal.  But not just if they have a gun illegally on their person.

You need an in state driver's license to buy a gun in a state, and then transporting across a state line is not illegal.  I've done it often.

If I want to purchase out of state, I have to have it shipped to an in state FFL.



 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2020, 02:17:03 PM
What happens mostly with these thugs is that they buy stolen guns and guns with no numbers. So, the "runner" is "from" Indiana, for example, and he gathers the guns and grinds off the numbers. Then he takes them to market in Chicago. That does not sound legal. Even selling an unnumbered gun to a thug would be illegal, no??
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 23, 2020, 02:22:30 PM
Would the Feds have to be deputized?  Murder (in general) is not a Federal crime, nor is much else that's happening there.
Does it really matter anymore?You want to find a criminal you hire one.Let Pelosi say shit to them.If things get much worse I'd imagine she'd be one of the 1st to bolt - or move into her government built Bunker
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 23, 2020, 02:26:54 PM
Right, but does transporting a stolen gun or gun without numbers across a state line illegal?
If they don't have a conceal carry for that state I'd imagine it would be.Which I doubt in most cases prolly not
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2020, 02:43:47 PM
I'm looking for a Federal law being broken. Tough to prove anything, regardless, unless the carrier is caught going over the border??
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 23, 2020, 03:07:45 PM
if the source of the drugs or guns is from out of state I guess that would be federal.  How about protesters coming in from out of state to commit crimes while protesting?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2020, 03:23:13 PM
That's a Federal Charge. An Illinois man was charged recently for f'ing around in Minnesota.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2020, 04:02:58 PM
Removing the serial number is illegal.  However, in general, serial numbers are not tracked, so it doesn't matter much.  I'm not sure why they bother unless they combine that with gun registration (which is not the norm).

I doubt the thugs care about serial numbers.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2020, 04:32:11 PM
Removing the serial number is illegal.  However, in general, serial numbers are not tracked, so it doesn't matter much.  I'm not sure why they bother unless they combine that with gun registration (which is not the norm).

I doubt the thugs care about serial numbers.
Federal?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2020, 04:36:21 PM
§ 478.34 Removed, obliterated, or altered serial number.
No person (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=9682c80a7d5f7cb84b338ba0869b6ea4&term_occur=999&term_src=Title:27:Chapter:II:Subchapter:B:Part:478:Subpart:C:478.34) shall knowingly transport, ship, or receive in interstate or foreign commerce (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=671aa5b4212da56fa44bcac75d2f58e5&term_occur=999&term_src=Title:27:Chapter:II:Subchapter:B:Part:478:Subpart:C:478.34) any firearm (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=33ff9abb246640040fd02d390eab9691&term_occur=999&term_src=Title:27:Chapter:II:Subchapter:B:Part:478:Subpart:C:478.34) which has had the importer (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=051727a066194903390b4c0a7c258a30&term_occur=999&term_src=Title:27:Chapter:II:Subchapter:B:Part:478:Subpart:C:478.34)'s or manufacturer (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=b4c91b5f610caf22e23e42dbb5bc636b&term_occur=999&term_src=Title:27:Chapter:II:Subchapter:B:Part:478:Subpart:C:478.34)'s serial number removed, obliterated, or altered, or possess or receive any firearm (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=33ff9abb246640040fd02d390eab9691&term_occur=999&term_src=Title:27:Chapter:II:Subchapter:B:Part:478:Subpart:C:478.34) which has had the importer (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=051727a066194903390b4c0a7c258a30&term_occur=999&term_src=Title:27:Chapter:II:Subchapter:B:Part:478:Subpart:C:478.34)'s or manufacturer (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=b4c91b5f610caf22e23e42dbb5bc636b&term_occur=999&term_src=Title:27:Chapter:II:Subchapter:B:Part:478:Subpart:C:478.34)'s serial number removed, obliterated, or altered and has, at any time, been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=671aa5b4212da56fa44bcac75d2f58e5&term_occur=999&term_src=Title:27:Chapter:II:Subchapter:B:Part:478:Subpart:C:478.34).
[T.D. ATF-313, 56 FR 32508 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/rio/citation/56_FR_32508), July 17, 1991]


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2020, 04:37:37 PM
My GUESS is that the VAST majority of these guns retain their serial number.  I don't know why the thugs would care either way really.  And if for some reason they are apprehended with a gun so changed they have an additional charge to add to the sheet, so why would they bother?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 23, 2020, 04:44:01 PM
criminals don't worry much about gun laws
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2020, 04:47:11 PM
Of course not, but imagine you are a gang thug with a gun.  Does it matter to you if it has a serial number?  Not much.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2020, 04:52:45 PM
Most of the time I see that additional charge when (if) charges are brought. I'll start posting those as I see them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 23, 2020, 05:15:51 PM
thanks
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2020, 05:36:37 PM
Well, let's imagine a thug is caught with the gun he used to commit a crime, say robbery.  If it has a serial number, he's not charged with anything else, if the serial number is missing (for a post-1968 gun), he has an additional charge brought.

So, he's better off leaving it intact, and no worse off.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2020, 05:45:33 PM
Well, let's imagine a thug is caught with the gun he used to commit a crime, say robbery.  If it has a serial number, he's not charged with anything else, if the serial number is missing (for a post-1968 gun), he has an additional charge brought.

So, he's better off leaving it intact, and no worse off.
I think you're missing my point. Most of them come into Chicago without the numbers.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2020, 06:04:16 PM
Why?  Who has an interest in removing the numbers?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on July 23, 2020, 08:48:32 PM
And yet, we continue to bail them out?

https://twitter.com/RedditCFB/status/1286319564477943811?s=20
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 23, 2020, 09:36:53 PM
Person. Woman. Man. Camera. TV.
Hippo?  Rhino?  Hippo?


fail
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 23, 2020, 09:37:28 PM
And yet, we continue to bail them out?

https://twitter.com/RedditCFB/status/1286319564477943811?s=20
This is the part of all this I think will be fascinating. 

If there is a large-scale shutdown, or even something that takes a sizable bite out of the sport, does it contract, at least in the middle?

Even if Wisconsin is short $100 million, schools such as that will eventually return to some level because the interest is still there. You might accelerate lower attendance and see coaching salaries slip, but in the end, schools like Michigan/OSU/Alabama to MSU/Purdue/Oregon/Arizona State can probably rally the interest to create some kind of big-time program.

But Rutgers is not that. A school like Vandy maybe could just because it tasted SEC money. Wake Forest feels borderline. But Rutgers is in the realm of some mid-majors who have the teams just because they've long had them. If there's a restart, App State or Ga. Southern or Boise probably have the will to get back in the game. Does Rutgers or NIU or Kent State or UConn or UNLV?

A lot of small schools can probably pull it off because they never cost that much to begin with (Oberlin has football), assuming those schools survive themselves. But I foresee a hollowing out of the middle of the sport. If that comes to pass, it'll be extra interesting to see what happens to the bottom of P5 schedules. Do they go deeper looking for patsies (would be interesting), or do they make the P5 more insular and live with the lower average results at the bottom end?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 24, 2020, 10:31:41 AM
I'm OK with trimming the fat. Being at 11 would be great.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 24, 2020, 10:54:57 AM
with a 10 game schedule
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 24, 2020, 11:01:33 AM
Correct.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 24, 2020, 11:11:25 AM
Hoping to avoid another high-profile confrontation (https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.chicagotribune.com%2Fpolitics%2Fct-christopher-columbus-statue-police-lori-lightfoot-20200720-k7qzd75ltzdhjbbmecnd42dxcm-story.html&data=02|01|JBiesk%40chicagotribune.com|bea8d07b682a42b1372c08d82fd50586|f7da0482aed242fa80233b240fb6598d|0|0|637311939254903677&sdata=eVYa3PdvvQJpjaPANLtMdDol72fku5qm9xb%2F%2BAD1FRQ%3D&reserved=0) between police and protesters like the clash that happened last week (https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.chicagotribune.com%2Fnews%2Fbreaking%2Fct-chicago-police-christopher-columbus-protest-20200718-ea62bmy6ujgh7cbeofrpwbakse-story.html&data=02|01|JBiesk%40chicagotribune.com|bea8d07b682a42b1372c08d82fd50586|f7da0482aed242fa80233b240fb6598d|0|0|637311939254913669&sdata=0V8yllLfrQVp%2FBp3hq2NuDMa5Q0dUEtu84t4HjdktC4%3D&reserved=0), Mayor Lori Lightfoot ordered the statues of Christopher Columbus removed from Chicago’s Grant and Arrigo parks overnight.

Not all Italian American leaders in Chicago are on board with the decision, but it has received the blessing of some groups, sources said. By taking the statues down, Lightfoot may draw criticism from those who believe she caved to activist demands.

Later Friday morning, the mayor’s office released a statement saying that she had both statues “temporarily removed ... until further notice.”


“This step is about an effort to protect public safety and to preserve a safe space for an inclusive and democratic public dialogue about our city’s symbols,” the statement said. “In addition, our public safety resources must be concentrated where they are most needed throughout the city, and particularly in our South and West Side communities.”

Lightfoot’s abrupt move in the dark of night was an about-face for the mayor, who has opposed taking down statues of the Italian explorer on the grounds that it would be erasing history. The mayor’s office statement Friday morning said that the city would soon announce “a formal process to assess each of the monuments, memorials, and murals across Chicago’s communities, and develop a framework for creating a public dialogue to determine how we elevate our city’s history and diversity.”


Crews arrived at Grant Park sometime around 1:00 a.m. and began the process of bringing down the monument honoring Columbus a little afterward. A couple dozen people cheered from across the street and passing cars honked as the statue came down at about 3 a.m. Friday morning.

It was not immediately clear where the statues were taken. Reports from television stations showed the statue in Arrigo Park, 801 S. Loomis St., in Chicago’s historic Little Italy neighborhood, was removed a few hours after the downtown statue.


The Grant Park removal capped off an at-times surreal evening. Late Thursday, Chicago Fraternal Order of Police president John Catanzara made his way to the downtown statue wearing an “Italia” T-shirt. He lounged around, talking with cops, criticizing Lightfoot, and promising there would be a pro-police protest there on Saturday even if the statue stayed in place..

He also got into debates with anti-Columbus protesters, some of which grew heated.
Ald. Brian Hopkins, 2nd, whose ward includes parts of downtown, said the mayor decided to remove the statue “unilaterally.”

Northwest Side Ald. Anthony Napolitano, 41st, posted on Facebook: "I have never been more disappointed, not only for the removal of a city statue, but the cowardly fashion in which it was removed in the middle of the night." 



“The American way to remove the Christopher Columbus statue should have been a discussion, debate and decision made by the City Council,” Napolitano wrote. “The city didn’t just lose a statue on the sneak last night, it lost its sense of decency and American soul!”


The removal also drew comparisons from Ald. Raymond Lopez, 15th, to former Mayor Richard M. Daley’s midnight bulldozing of Meigs Field (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2013-03-31-ct-met-meigs-field-10th-anniversary-0331-20130331-story.html) in March 2003. Lopez later took to Twitter with his criticism of the mayor’s decision.



“What has become of Chicago? We have a mayor forced into submission by anarchy & mob-rule? No more public process, official discourse, or on-the-record debate,” tweeted Lopez, a frequent Lightfoot critic. “The lesson learned is that if you want action from Lightfoot, show up en mass at her house & she will cave every time.”

Protesters marched downtown last Friday then headed into Grant Park, where a group of people attempted to take down the statue, similar to what’s happened in other cities across the country.



But chaos followed the protest as officers and demonstrators clashed around the statue. At least 20 complaints of police brutality were filed against Chicago cops, including one involving activist Miracle Boyd, who said she was hit in the face by a police officer during the skirmish, knocking out at least one of her teeth.

Lightfoot and police leaders blamed a group of protesters wielding black umbrellas and shields for inciting what they called “anarchy.” Lightfoot also said she isn’t happy with officers who may have mistreated protesters or reporters.

Chicago’s statues of the explorer have become a heated controversy for Lightfoot, who also has rejected calls to rename the Columbus Day holiday.


Columbus has been condemned by activists around the country who point to the Italian explorer’s mistreatment of Indigenous people after he landed in the Americas in 1492.

Earlier in the evening, protesters gathered near Lightfoot’s Logan Square home to criticize the police. Drawing loud cheers, hugs and applause, an activist informed the crowd over a megaphone that Lightfoot would be removing the statue.


The Tribune first reported news of the mayor’s plans to remove the Grant Park statue.

Northwest Side Ald. Rossana Rodriguez Sanchez, 33rd, traveled downtown to watch the statue’s removal and shared her thoughts on Twitter.

“It’s coming down because of the activism that has led to this moment,” she wrote. “Indigenous, Black and Brown people have been fighting for so long to see this happen.”
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 24, 2020, 11:12:33 AM
I'm OK with trimming the fat. Being at 11 would be great.
OK who goes?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 24, 2020, 11:12:46 AM
why not take ALL statues down and ban statues going forward?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 24, 2020, 11:16:36 AM
why not take ALL statues down and ban statues going forward?
I feel like we should be able to figure out statues. I mean it ain't rocket science
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 24, 2020, 11:22:27 AM
I feel like we should be able to figure out statues. I mean it ain't rocket science
The statues are a part of history, which is part good, and part bad.

History is being erased, and I'm not quite sure how I completely feel about that, other than sad for right now.

Chicago has a prominent roadway called Columbus Drive.

What will Columbus, Ohio be called?

How far is this gonna go?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 24, 2020, 11:34:55 AM
I feel like we should be able to figure out statues. I mean it ain't rocket science
No, it's opinion.  What offends one person may be treasured by another, and vice versa.

I'm fine if a locality decides on its own to move a statue from here to there.  I personally don't view statues as being "history".  I know many in the south were intended as reminded to a certain race that the white folks ended up winning after all.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 24, 2020, 11:37:00 AM
The statues are a part of history, which is part good, and part bad.

History is being erased, and I'm not quite sure how I completely feel about that, other than sad for right now.

Chicago has a prominent roadway called Columbus Drive.

What will Columbus, Ohio be called?

How far is this gonna go?
Is it being erased? It's not likely people will forget about Christopher Columbus, but they are learning about his history of torture and genocide. When people take the time to learn history it seems likely their feelings about something may change.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 24, 2020, 11:47:30 AM
All of that has been known for years and years and years. It was taught when I was in grammar school.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 24, 2020, 12:12:16 PM
My dim recollection of history that I was taught was sort of that there are heroes, mostly OUR guys, and culprits, their guys, and there is little in between.

I didn't pay much attention, I memorized whatever was needed to pass the test and forgot it quickly though.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 24, 2020, 12:35:49 PM
All of that has been known for years and years and years. It was taught when I was in grammar school.
Then why the consternation about it? Isn't is pretty reasonable to not have tons of admiration for such a guy? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 24, 2020, 12:46:25 PM
I never have. The guy didn't even know where he was.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 24, 2020, 12:48:58 PM
OK who goes?
The two recent adds, for sure. Then, I guess you'd have to look at the far Eastern and far Western schools and make a tough call. Or, you stay at 12, play 10, move MSU West and move PU East.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 24, 2020, 01:21:20 PM
I laughed at one party claiming the history of the other party was racist and therefore it should be banned.

Maybe they could ban them both?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on July 24, 2020, 01:24:14 PM
Why?  Who has an interest in removing the numbers?



The person selling the gun, if somehow the serial number can be traced to him (her)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 24, 2020, 01:29:50 PM
The person selling the gun, if somehow the serial number can be traced to him (her)
It can't, these things are not registered in most locations.  I think they keep the purchase record for one year and throw it out, something like that.

There is no comprehensive national system of gun registration. In fact, federal law prohibits the use of the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) to create any system of registration of firearms or firearm owners.5 (https://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-laws/policy-areas/gun-owner-responsibilities/registration/#footnote_4_466)

A limited system of federal firearms registration was created by the National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. § 5801 et seq. The National Firearms Act (NFA) was enacted in 1934 to impose an excise tax and registration requirements on a narrow category of firearms, including machine guns, short-barreled shotguns or rifles, and silencers, and these weapons must also be registered under the NFA.6 (https://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-laws/policy-areas/gun-owner-responsibilities/registration/#footnote_5_466)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 24, 2020, 01:32:18 PM
Six states and the District of Columbia require registration of some or all firearms. Hawaii and the District of Columbia require the registration of all firearms, California maintains a database of gun transfer records, and New York requires the registration of all handguns through its licensing law.10 (https://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-laws/policy-areas/gun-owner-responsibilities/registration/#footnote_9_466) Hawaii, New York, and four other states also have a registration system for certain highly dangerous firearms, such as assault weapons. These states generally ban such firearms, but allow the continued possession of grandfathered weapons if they were owned before the ban was adopted and are registered. For more information about such laws, see our summaries on Assault Weapons (https://lawcenter.giffords.org/assault-weapons-policy-summary/), 50-Caliber Weapons (https://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-laws/policy-areas/hardware-ammunition/machine-guns-50-caliber/), and Large Capacity Magazines (https://lawcenter.giffords.org/large-capacity-ammunition-magazines-policy-summary/).
Additional states require the reporting of firearm sales and transfers to a state or local agency, which maintains these records. For information about such laws, see our summary on Maintaining Records of Gun Sales (https://lawcenter.giffords.org/retention-of-sales-background-check-records-policy-summary/). California and Maryland also require new residents to report certain firearms that they bring into the state.
Conversely, eight states have statutes prohibiting them from maintaining a registry of firearms except in limited circumstances.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 24, 2020, 01:33:58 PM
I copied that from the Gifford Center, which I shouldn't have because the site is replete with faulty information and disinformation.  It really is bad.

But in this case it will suffice.

I've explained before how "assault weapons" are no more deadly than any number of nonassault weapons that use the same ammunition and can fire just as quickly.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 24, 2020, 01:40:01 PM
This discussion leads me to an old story, and it just dawned on me.

Up until about 5 years ago, there was this guy (George) in our marina. He had a newer 65 Sea Ray Sundancer.

Looked something like the below. Anyway, almost every day he would head out of the marina, and go the same direction every time. He'd be back in about 5-6 hours, every time. He'd show up to the marina with a cooler on wheels, and a large roller luggage bag.

We were leaving the marina about the same time, and he was first. I slowed, then followed him to track the course, for about 2 miles. Of course, I kept my distance. Anyway, his course was taking him to Michigan City, IN.

One weekend we came up, and his boat was covered with orange flagging, so we walked over to have a look.

It was chained to the cleats on the dock, with locks, and it was marked USCG - SEIZED.

Now I know what he was doing, and how he could afford that boat and his Porsche Cayenne Turbo.

He was running guns, and he got busted, finally. I'm now sure of this. It makes perfect sense.


(https://i.imgur.com/KtiqI72.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 24, 2020, 01:55:01 PM
gotta be careful in that Marina  - rough crowd

is that the same one as I visited?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 24, 2020, 02:02:51 PM
gotta be careful in that Marina  - rough crowd

is that the same one as I visited?
Yes, but we are in a different slip now.

There was another seize about 5-6 years ago, on our dock. Polish dood who claimed to be a "contractor" got busted bringing Polish women into the US, from Canada. He was running across the St. Clair River, from Sarnia to Port Huron, and apparently had been doing so for YEARS.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 24, 2020, 03:16:50 PM
847 that reminds me of a story in the '80s .The USCG busted a Canadian Commercial Fishing trawler in US waters on Lake Erie.They were Perch/Walleye Poaching .They incarcerated the crew and docked the vessel in the Port of Lorain I believe.Anyway the company posted bail for the crew and the next day after sundown the crew stole the boat and got back into Canadian waters.Not sure what happened after that but the crew was from Portugal - ballsy move.Think the brainiacs at the USCG would have pulled a few ignition cables















Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 24, 2020, 03:36:27 PM
Yeah, that's why the policy is to now chain it down. And you ain't cutting these chains or locks without a torch, at least. Operating a torch near a boat is not advised...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 24, 2020, 06:05:11 PM
but, a decent choice if you're in big trouble
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 24, 2020, 06:05:36 PM
Can't go to a bar in Chicago starting Friday, but the pot stores are open.

Let's all sit home and stay stoned, all day long!!! What could go wrong?
Yeah they should probably shut down liquor stores too. Can't have people sitting around at home getting drunk all day. What could go wrong? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 24, 2020, 06:31:30 PM
Played first round of golf in 5 years today.

Scored better than I expected at a 97. Strategy was not to pull a club longer than a 5 iron. Sure, limits me to 210-220 of the tee, but I can hit it straight.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 24, 2020, 06:40:00 PM
Yeah they should probably shut down liquor stores too. Can't have people sitting around at home getting drunk all day. What could go wrong?
A lot could go wrong. How much time you got for me to tell you my stories?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 24, 2020, 07:58:15 PM
This discussion leads me to an old story, and it just dawned on me.

Up until about 5 years ago, there was this guy (George) in our marina. He had a newer 65 Sea Ray Sundancer.

Looked something like the below. Anyway, almost every day he would head out of the marina, and go the same direction every time. He'd be back in about 5-6 hours, every time. He'd show up to the marina with a cooler on wheels, and a large roller luggage bag.

We were leaving the marina about the same time, and he was first. I slowed, then followed him to track the course, for about 2 miles. Of course, I kept my distance. Anyway, his course was taking him to Michigan City, IN.

One weekend we came up, and his boat was covered with orange flagging, so we walked over to have a look.

It was chained to the cleats on the dock, with locks, and it was marked USCG - SEIZED.

Now I know what he was doing, and how he could afford that boat and his Porsche Cayenne Turbo.

He was running guns, and he got busted, finally. I'm now sure of this. It makes perfect sense.


(https://i.imgur.com/KtiqI72.png)
Interesting. 

I wonder how much more efficient it is to run guns that way instead of by land. Granted, you could get to Michigan City rather than have to go to the gun spots in The Region.

It's been a few years since my roommate in Indiana had a couple guns. He seemed to indicate the laws there were highly lax. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 24, 2020, 07:58:43 PM
A lot could go wrong. How much time you got for me to tell you my stories?
Can't be sitting at home. Gotta be drunk on the boat, with someone else driving. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 24, 2020, 10:26:49 PM
Can't be sitting at home. Gotta be drunk on the boat, with someone else driving.
OK, so maybe tomorrow?? I am at "home" now, in Palatine.


All serious now.. I NEVER drink when I drive my boat. Bottle to throttle is 10 hours. Great Lakes are 0.02 BAC. That's like one beer, or maybe two??

My USCG Master Captain license is in play. That was too hard to get, to lose it on stupidity. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 24, 2020, 10:43:43 PM
Got word today that my community college is naming a room after my family. Should happen in September, and I will post pictures.

I'm speechless on that. 

Holy sheep shit (as Tommy Chong might say).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 24, 2020, 11:29:06 PM
I didn't know they gave rubber rooms names
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 24, 2020, 11:45:41 PM
Jim and Lori Meier Engineering Classroom.


I'm proud of this, and also very proud to be a distinguished alumni.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yMepV-NraA&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yMepV-NraA&feature=youtu.be)


I could not have done this without my secret weapon .


My wonderful Mrs. 847.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 24, 2020, 11:50:17 PM
So... now you all know who I am, and what I do around here, and what I stand for. 

It's on my sleeve, and in my heart.


Take me for what I am.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 25, 2020, 12:44:24 AM
Congrats.

I admit, I was picturing students hitting the big red-and-white 'Bastage' sign above the door as they enter.  Ah well.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 25, 2020, 05:20:54 AM
Oh, and someone burned down the Democratic HQ here in Phoenix.  So that's one way the election could be swayed.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on July 25, 2020, 05:35:42 AM
Oh, and someone burned down the Democratic HQ here in Phoenix.  So that's one way the election could be swayed. 
Lol. True. THAT will be the one building in the country that Dem politicians will be outraged someone burned down.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 25, 2020, 08:12:37 AM
Jim and Lori Meier Engineering Classroom.


I'm proud of this, and also very proud to be a distinguished alumni.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yMepV-NraA&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yMepV-NraA&feature=youtu.be)


I could not have done this without my secret weapon .


My wonderful Mrs. 847.

Wow.  Congratulations to you and Mrs. Badge.  
You get mad respect from me because you have obviously made the world a better place than you found it, and are continuing to do so.
That goes beyond race, political party, gender, ethnicity, etc....    It is a human measurement. 
The one thing I have consistently tried to instill in my daughters is just that....try to leave everything, every person, this world, better than you found it.  
I already kind of liked how Badger football operates, but I guess I will root for them just a tad bit more now....bastage...😉😉
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 25, 2020, 08:17:14 AM
Lol. True. THAT will be the one building in the country that Dem politicians will be outraged someone burned down.
😂😂😂
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 25, 2020, 08:31:50 AM
Jim and Lori Meier Engineering Classroom.


I'm proud of this, and also very proud to be a distinguished alumni.



I could not have done this without my secret weapon .


My wonderful Mrs. 847.

no secret to me
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 25, 2020, 08:34:22 AM
Played first round of golf in 5 years today.

Scored better than I expected at a 97. Strategy was not to pull a club longer than a 5 iron. Sure, limits me to 210-220 of the tee, but I can hit it straight.
very nice

I do not agree with your strategy btw

get the driver out and swing hard, you just might hit it straight
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 25, 2020, 08:34:34 AM
So... now you all know who I am, and what I do around here, and what I stand for.

It's on my sleeve, and in my heart.


Take me for what I am.
Pretty cool, though it sounds like you have a spaghetti date with someone's wife.  Don't drop your meatball.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 25, 2020, 08:39:23 AM
Got word today that my community college is naming a room after my family. Should happen in September, and I will post pictures.

I'm speechless on that.

Holy sheep shit (as Tommy Chong might say).
Ohhhh. 

I did not realize you did the CC route. I thought you did four years of that back and fourth from Illinois to Madison. That makes a ton more sense. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 25, 2020, 09:49:50 AM
very nice

I do not agree with your strategy btw

get the driver out and swing hard, you just might hit it straight
On the range I couldn't consistently make solid contact with the 4 wood and I knew taking it out on the course would lead to frustration.

If I pulled driver on the longer holes I might have hit one or two straight and with solid contact, but the misses would have been duffed or in the next county lol.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 25, 2020, 09:57:40 AM
Ohhhh.

I did not realize you did the CC route. I thought you did four years of that back and fourth from Illinois to Madison. That makes a ton more sense.
Yeah, I've mentioned it in the past. It took me 7 years to graduate from Harper with the AS - all night school/weekends.

This is why I'm so big on the community college route. You can get everything you need there, and I was accepted to continue at NU, UM and UW.

But, you can also get a 2 year AAS in things like Manufacturing, welding, construction technology, etc. and make well above a living wage. And, no debt!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 25, 2020, 10:13:06 AM
Welp... this thread could live for a long time. I know ELA has his countdown to the season starting, which is also a countdown to the end of this thread. But...


https://twitter.com/mattcharboneau/status/1286742612943278080 (https://twitter.com/mattcharboneau/status/1286742612943278080)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 25, 2020, 12:44:52 PM
Yeah, I've mentioned it in the past. It took me 7 years to graduate from Harper with the AS - all night school/weekends.

This is why I'm so big on the community college route. You can get everything you need there, and I was accepted to continue at NU, UM and UW.

But, you can also get a 2 year AAS in things like Manufacturing, welding, construction technology, etc. and make well above a living wage. And, no debt!!
I don't know why I forgot the CC part. 

So seven years of working to finish an AS, then two at UW? All while working in either engineering or engineering-adjacent fields?

And yes, I agree community college needs to be a more-used resource. I think we made part of the on-campus experience a stage of life of sorts, which has a few pluses, but also strong minuses.

(I'm currently trying to decide between attempting to move to an adjacent field or maybe going back to school for something. Just need to figure out what)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 25, 2020, 01:58:08 PM
Are CCs under used today begging for students?  I never got that impression, there was one near us in Cincy that seemed busy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 25, 2020, 02:15:14 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/WRrSk1K.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 25, 2020, 04:32:38 PM
When I told the wife that all I wanted for my birthday was a good humping, I really should have made sure the puppy was out of earshot. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 25, 2020, 07:54:08 PM
When I told the wife that all I wanted for my birthday was a good humping, I really should have made sure the puppy was out of earshot.
😂😂. Happy Birthday B.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 25, 2020, 09:06:59 PM
Are CCs under used today begging for students?  I never got that impression, there was one near us in Cincy that seemed busy.
Cincinnati State drops all sports except soccer after cuts
August 19, 2017


CINCINNATI (AP) — Cincinnati State Technical and Community College says it’s suspending all sports except women’s and men’s soccer due to budget cuts. 

The soccer teams will play for the fall season, but the basketball, volleyball and golf teams will not...

https://apnews.com/004edd82637c428399febaf05087d5a6/Cincinnati-State-drops-all-sports-except-soccer-after-cuts (https://apnews.com/004edd82637c428399febaf05087d5a6/Cincinnati-State-drops-all-sports-except-soccer-after-cuts)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 25, 2020, 10:50:54 PM
Are CCs under used today begging for students?  I never got that impression, there was one near us in Cincy that seemed busy.
I think it depends. I heard somewhere the nursing programs were really full up. Not sure about the stuff that Badge is talking about. 

I'm fascinated by CCs in a certain way because I've long thought post-WWII, college became a place for people of certain means to bridge from 18 into adulthood. For young men for a long time, the military was crucial there, and in some ways probably still should be. 

It's interesting because CC requires in some sense a little more being on top of your stuff, but the kids more predisposed to be on top of their stuff end up more overwhelmingly in four-year schools. I hope things can shift more toward functional degrees without damaging whatever value the academy creates. Granted the balance is out of whack with more "academic" majors than are needed. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2020, 06:22:41 AM
One thing interesting I learned about the Japanese system, and to some extent the European systems, and I've read about this as well as talked to folks, is that high school for them is tough if they are college bound.  Only about 37% of EU HS graduates attend college, the figure here is nearly 70%.  HS for them is tough, college by and large is not (it can be).  A chemistry major in Europe only takes chemistry classes, and maybe some math and physics and biology, he or she will take zero liberal arts classes.

Here we use college to "complete" a person's HS education in many ways.  Folks come out with a 4 year degree roughly on a par in each country because esp. in Japan, college is not very difficult.  (Maybe it isn't here now as much either.)

They also of course have no college sports other than perhaps rowing.  If you are a top flight soccer player, you play soccer, not in college.  In France, K-12 education is entirely Federalized, every school teaches the same program (excepting some teaching local languages which is allowed now), entirely funded by the Feds.  Part of that was intended to bind a somewhat disparate country into one whole, back in the day local languages were taught against.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 26, 2020, 08:58:20 AM
the local community college is offering free tuition in over 30 programs that are in high need to fill jobs

can't talk my oldest daughter into any of them
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 26, 2020, 08:59:34 AM
When I told the wife that all I wanted for my birthday was a good humping, I really should have made sure the puppy was out of earshot.
happy birthday!
good luck with the golf game
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 26, 2020, 09:23:42 AM
the local community college is offering free tuition in over 30 programs that are in high need to fill jobs

can't talk my oldest daughter into any of them
If she's still under your roof you can tell her into any of them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 26, 2020, 09:25:38 AM
you're not wrong

she did just start a full-time job w/benefits

turns 26 in Sept. - off my health insurance
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 26, 2020, 09:28:00 AM
I don't know why I forgot the CC part.

So seven years of working to finish an AS, then two at UW? All while working in either engineering or engineering-adjacent fields?

And yes, I agree community college needs to be a more-used resource. I think we made part of the on-campus experience a stage of life of sorts, which has a few pluses, but also strong minuses.

(I'm currently trying to decide between attempting to move to an adjacent field or maybe going back to school for something. Just need to figure out what)
3 at UW. My degree required 147 credits. Half of them were useful.

The other half were to keep liberal arts professors on the payroll.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2020, 09:34:20 AM
Yeah, my liberal arts requirements were rather annoying really.  I had to go an extra quarter to make up two of them, fortunately one was German which I had to have anyway.  I recall sociology as being rather weird, interesting in spots, very easy, and very stupid in spots.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 26, 2020, 10:08:39 AM
And then there was this.


https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/1287126420284674048 (https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/1287126420284674048)



I can't see a way for football this year.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2020, 10:38:14 AM
Yeah, maybe they will try a few games, maybe, and shut it down.  This just won't work as even one reported positive takes a team off the field.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on July 26, 2020, 12:35:06 PM
Yeah, my liberal arts requirements were rather annoying really.  I had to go an extra quarter to make up two of them, fortunately one was German which I had to have anyway.  I recall sociology as being rather weird, interesting in spots, very easy, and very stupid in spots.
Most of the gen ed requirements are pointless.  Just a way to make money, while stuffing 300 kids into a lecture.

I think I learned more in 9th grade bio than I did in any of the 200 level science classes I had to take in college.

Hey, kids, take these super easy classes, in something you aren't interested in, with no kids who actually are in that major, in a giant lecture hall.

There was one semester (fall semester junior year?) where I literally had one class for my major, and just knocked out a bunch of dumb requirements.  I felt like I was back in HS.  Aside from my one major class I had History (Civil War battles), French, Math (Stats), and Science (Both Astronomy and Biology)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2020, 12:46:09 PM
I was in the Honors program which fortunately limited LA class sizes to 8 students when possible.  One problem was I was in a few where I was the only male and the professor loved the adoring females, and I was dumb enough to argue with him.  I got a C in a class I later discovered I had placed out of with credit my first quarter.

Bummer.  Lesson learned, I guess.

Anything the females said was highly interesting to him, and anything I said was stupid.  History was "OK" a much better professor as I recall.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on July 26, 2020, 02:14:18 PM
And then there was this.


https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/1287126420284674048 (https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/1287126420284674048)



I can't see a way for football this year.
Hopefully it just means no Rutgers football. Forever.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 26, 2020, 02:21:51 PM
3 at UW. My degree required 147 credits. Half of them were useful.

The other half were to keep liberal arts professors on the payroll.
147?!? Lordy.

It looks like they're reduced the humanities stuff to one semester of course load. I don't mind the idea of forcing engineers to have a little breadth, just for personality, but obviously there's a price tag, which is an issue. 

The interesting thing is of course the liberal arts profs are probably making the lion's share of the tuition money, purely from a credit side. Far less so for research. 

Another interesting side point is that undergrad programs with high-end professional ties do their best to eject 18-year-old dummies with great force. I did a little pre-med science, got into business school and avoided the weed-out engineering math I tested out of it precisely because it was a tool to beat those kids around the head. So I got a taste of all those. I understand the rationale, because you want really good kids doing it, but you also throw back those kids into recirculation, not so likely to leave the school, but instead just finish out a more amorphous degree. 

Perhaps the longer lead-up was a benefit, as being a 22-year-old Badge working through stuff created a different perspective than a 18-year-old one. 

It also reminds me of a line from someone I met in the military. She said the military excels at finding a use for someone and don't give up easy. When the academy can't use an 18-year-old or 19-year-old for a specific thing, it recirculates them to all those degrees Badge dislikes. The schools lack the breadth of middle ground those AS degrees have.

(I'm also reminded that Georgia Tech is Badge's ideal school. That makes me chuckle)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 26, 2020, 02:24:04 PM
Hopefully it just means no Rutgers football. Forever.
If there's no season, they're near No. 1 on my list of FBS programs that don't return. Far and away No. 1 in P5. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 26, 2020, 02:38:43 PM
Probably more like Purdue. 

I have no interest in living in a big city anymore, for a lot of reasons. 

Ideally, there would be schools of engineering set up completely for transfer student.

There are a lot of universities which need to be defunded.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 26, 2020, 02:53:04 PM

Another interesting side point is that undergrad programs with high-end professional ties do their best to eject 18-year-old dummies with great force. I did a little pre-med science, got into business school and avoided the weed-out engineering math I tested out of it precisely because it was a tool to beat those kids around the head. So I got a taste of all those. I understand the rationale, because you want really good kids doing it, but you also throw back those kids into recirculation, not so likely to leave the school, but instead just finish out a more amorphous degree.
I don't know how other schools do this, but Purdue has less rigorous "technology" degrees for those who can't hack it in engineering. So a student who struggles with Electrical Engineering might end up in Electrical Engineering Technology.

It's heavy on hands on lab work rather than theory, but that's not a bad skill to have. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 26, 2020, 03:04:43 PM
UW has nothing like that. Maybe they do in the system, elsewhere in the state, but not Madison.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 26, 2020, 03:10:06 PM
Probably more like Purdue.

I have no interest in living in a big city anymore, for a lot of reasons.

Ideally, there would be schools of engineering set up completely for transfer student.

There are a lot of universities which need to be defunded.
I am more meant in terms of the purity of focus. I looked it up at one point, and I think there were maybe 10 majors that weren’t some kind of engineering or business. I think Purdue still has some of the breadth you’d expect from a big 10 school.

Defunded because they’re doing something wrong? I think the market may take care of that soon enough.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 26, 2020, 03:13:27 PM
UW has nothing like that. Maybe they do in the system, elsewhere in the state, but not Madison.
Looks like Plattville has maybe one option for that. But if it's not there or Madison, I'm doubtful anyone has it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 26, 2020, 03:15:19 PM
I don't know how other schools do this, but Purdue has less rigorous "technology" degrees for those who can't hack it in engineering. So a student who struggles with Electrical Engineering might end up in Electrical Engineering Technology.

It's heavy on hands on lab work rather than theory, but that's not a bad skill to have.
This is kinda what I'm thinking. You're not a Dr./research scientist/high-end engineer, but we'll find a way to put your interest and skills to use on that front 

Any maybe later you can come back and take another crack at it if you want. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2020, 03:16:53 PM
Yeah, I know folks get a lot of "theory" in some classes and perhaps not enough hands on real world training.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 26, 2020, 03:27:57 PM
Oshkosh has some.

https://uwosh.edu/academics/majors-minors-emphases/ (https://uwosh.edu/academics/majors-minors-emphases/)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 26, 2020, 03:29:38 PM
Yeah, I know folks get a lot of "theory" in some classes and perhaps not enough hands on real world training.


Folks could design something without an engineering degree, based on processes and such. I have a good tech working for me as a designer.

But, it really helps to understand the theory of WHY you're designing something the way you are. You can't get that on the street.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 26, 2020, 03:54:16 PM
Oshkosh has some.

https://uwosh.edu/academics/majors-minors-emphases/ (https://uwosh.edu/academics/majors-minors-emphases/)


Just sent a Whoa Nellie order to Oshkosh yesterday.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2020, 05:53:16 PM
One of the best technicians I ever had was an AB degreed person.  The company went back and forth about hiring BS level people as technicians because they hired BS Engineers as staff, at considerably higher pay.  At one point, a lot of our younger technicians were female, like 65%, and nearly all the engineers were not.  A female engineer at that point would get hired no matter what, and some of them were doozies.  Some of course were quite good, but many were unqualified completely.

The standard was one technician per staff, which was not enough.  Two was ideal.  At one point, they gave me five, which was WAY too many, especially as one of them was a dope (male).  I couldn't keep five people busy because I needed to see results before I had any idea what to do next.  Management would really throw resources at you when there was any semblance of a crisis.  I recall spending $80 K every two weeks on some outside testing up at Dayton for 6 months or so.  I have no idea how they budgeted for that.

That was a Dutch company, interesting outfit, that did anaerobic and aerobic composting testing.  I think when we left them they had no other customers.  Composting of course for MSW went the way of the carrier pigeon.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 27, 2020, 09:00:42 AM
https://www.chicagotribune.com/living/health/ct-life-inequity-data-policy-roots-chicago-20200726-r3c7qykvvbfm5bdjm4fpb6g5k4-story.html (https://www.chicagotribune.com/living/health/ct-life-inequity-data-policy-roots-chicago-20200726-r3c7qykvvbfm5bdjm4fpb6g5k4-story.html)


I'm just going to leave this here. It's too long to cut and paste, but it's worth the read. Lots of insight on how and why Chicago is what it is.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 27, 2020, 09:12:32 AM
https://www.chicagotribune.com/living/health/ct-life-inequity-data-policy-roots-chicago-20200726-r3c7qykvvbfm5bdjm4fpb6g5k4-story.html (https://www.chicagotribune.com/living/health/ct-life-inequity-data-policy-roots-chicago-20200726-r3c7qykvvbfm5bdjm4fpb6g5k4-story.html)


I'm just going to leave this here. It's too long to cut and paste, but it's worth the read. Lots of insight on how and why Chicago is what it is.
Great article
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on July 27, 2020, 09:17:29 AM
Probably more like Purdue.

I have no interest in living in a big city anymore, for a lot of reasons.

Ideally, there would be schools of engineering set up completely for transfer student.

There are a lot of universities which need to be defunded.
I don’t like living in big cities either, but I do like living close to them. Maybe an hr or less away, where I can go when I want but not have to be trapped living in the mess. 

My sister lived in NYC in Manhattan for 5 maybe 6 years, and I never understood how she did it. Great to visit, but I could never live there. After a week I’m good. The only big cities I think I could actually live in are all in Europe.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 27, 2020, 09:54:44 AM
In the midst of all that uncertainty, the offseason ramp-up schedule adopted by the NCAA earlier this summer continues to march on, and that means Nebraska on Friday enters the next phase of preparation: a two-week “minicamp” style setting.

“Nobody wants all the uncertainty that we’ve got going on here, but I’m just trying to control what I can control and I’m just really excited to be able to get back out there and work with the guys a little bit,” defensive coordinator Erik Chinander said in a recent radio interview. “It’s been a long time since we’ve got the chance to do that, and I just like being around the guys, so I’m excited for that part.”

The formal summer access period began July 13, which gave coaches eight hours weekly to be around the players — six in the weight room and up to two of film work. Now, for the next two weeks, the access goes up to 20 hours weekly.


That includes up to 12 hours of walk-through, no-pad practices plus up to six hours of weight training and two hours of film. Essentially, the next two weeks are as close to the canceled spring ball practices as NU is going to get. Then, on Aug. 7, a “normal” preseason camp would begin.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2020, 09:58:25 AM
I think younger couples and individuals often like urban life.  We're probably not the usual couple who enjoys it, special case, as usual.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 27, 2020, 11:16:51 AM
Boomers will be known as the generation of division.  They will be known as the generation of selfishness.

discuss...
A generation of kids who grew up with every toy they wanted. Our parents, products of the Great Depression--didn't want us to grow up as they had had to grow up.
A generation of young people who thought singing "Give Peace a Chance" would result in peace breaking out.  Good intentions trump all else.
The first generation of Americans to refuse to fight their nation's war.  Or at least to let the more blue-collar members of their cohort go fight and die.
The generation that produced Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, two somewhat-flawed presidents in different Boomer ways.
I'm a Boomer--born right in the middle of the boom.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 27, 2020, 11:24:11 AM
Yeah, I never understood the allure of a big city, where you can't even stick your arm out the window without somebody swiping your watch. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 27, 2020, 11:25:16 AM
Some folks like city life.  Some like country living.  It's a darn good thing we don't all like and want exactly the same things, what a boring world that would be.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 27, 2020, 11:44:13 AM
Young couples are always wanting urban starter homes/condos near the swanky, gentrified section of downtown.  They want to be able to walk to bars and swanky restaurants, while they "raise" their dog as a test run for a baby.  Once they have the baby and don't go out anymore, they want to move to the 'burbs.

At least according to "House Hunters" on HGTV.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 27, 2020, 11:57:10 AM
So... now you all know who I am, and what I do around here, and what I stand for.

It's on my sleeve, and in my heart.


Take me for what I am.
Very good, Badge!

Congrats on your status as a distinguished alumnus.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2020, 12:18:56 PM
I see a LOT of young folks with young kids around here, but rarely do they have kids 4-5-6 or more.  I think they make do in a 2 bedroom unit until they can get to the 'burbs.  Nearly everyone has a dog, it seems.

I bet there is a lively market for baby sitters.

Our building is mostly 55 and up, not by any intent or limitation, it just is.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 27, 2020, 01:02:58 PM
Columbus had a few upscale neighborhoods that were suburb adjacent, but they were Columbus Public Schools. So no one with school age children could live in those neighborhoods. They were for retired people, and childless adults. If and when the childless adults lose their state of childlessness, then they have to sort it out over the next few years; selling their posh house or condo and then moving into a school district that isn't quite as dangerous. Those who can afford private schooling might be inclined to stick it out, of course. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 27, 2020, 01:25:10 PM
Young couples are always wanting urban starter homes/condos near the swanky, gentrified section of downtown.  They want to be able to walk to bars and swanky restaurants, while they "raise" their dog as a test run for a baby.  Once they have the baby and don't go out anymore, they want to move to the 'burbs.

At least according to "House Hunters" on HGTV.
Heh ain't just house hunters.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 27, 2020, 03:54:17 PM
I see a LOT of young folks with young kids around here, but rarely do they have kids 4-5-6 or more.  I think they make do in a 2 bedroom unit until they can get to the 'burbs.  Nearly everyone has a dog, it seems.

I bet there is a lively market for baby sitters.

Our building is mostly 55 and up, not by any intent or limitation, it just is.


Cincy,

Perhaps you could make a few bucks on the side baby-sitting and/or dog walking?
only accept cash payment
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 27, 2020, 04:24:16 PM
https://athlonsports.com/college-football/big-ten-football-predicting-biggest-upsets-2020

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/big-ten-football-predicting-biggest-upsets-2020 (https://athlonsports.com/college-football/big-ten-football-predicting-biggest-upsets-2020)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 27, 2020, 06:18:23 PM
Cincy,

Perhaps you could make a few bucks on the side baby-sitting and/or dog walking?
only accept cash payment
(https://i.gifer.com/FIvB.gif)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 28, 2020, 05:19:28 PM
Ohio State is limiting attendance to 20,000 this season and banning tailgating.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 28, 2020, 05:21:12 PM
Moved from the Virus thread to here.




I feel like there has to be a term for this sort of thing, this fantasy of violence that would feel good, which people verbalize.

I mean, 20 nukes would almost assuredly incinerate millions of people, maybe hundreds of thousands if aimed poorly. Give millions more cancer. And all but the smallest handful wouldn't have had a thing to do with this. If you actually wouldn't think twice about it, that would make you a psychopath beyond measure. But you probably would think twice about it, and chances are not do it at all. 
It's called venting and bullshitting lol. Of course I wouldn't want 20 nukes to be dropped on China and kill millions of innocent people. The people there are victims of their own government. 

I would be all for assassination of Chinese CCP leaders. Quite frankly I am shocked that we don't already do that. Oh wait, why don't we already do that? Because past and present US leaders are bought and paid for by CCP backed Chinese multinational banks & corporations.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 28, 2020, 05:39:33 PM
It actually is illegal to assassinate leaders of a foreign country in the US, at least heads of state.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 28, 2020, 05:51:02 PM
Exceptions can be made. Like that asshat from Libya. He was targeted.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 28, 2020, 05:51:10 PM
just another law that is tough to enforce
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 28, 2020, 06:50:11 PM
Technically, it's illegal.  So is speeding.

We generally don't want nations trying to take out other heads of state, although down through history maybe the world would have been better if that had been the way things worked.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 28, 2020, 07:06:52 PM
It actually is illegal to assassinate leaders of a foreign country in the US, at least heads of state.
Well assassinate them somewhere else - you see help's out there
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on July 28, 2020, 07:30:05 PM
It actually is illegal to assassinate leaders of a foreign country in the US, at least heads of state.
LMAO. Buddy, you know this and I know this- the CIA has been assassinating and overthrowing leaders of foreign countries from it's inception. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 28, 2020, 07:44:51 PM
Maybe we can get them to take out some lobbyists.All on the QT of course
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 28, 2020, 07:51:24 PM
LMAO. Buddy, you know this and I know this- the CIA has been assassinating and overthrowing leaders of foreign countries from it's inception.
Can you name five heads of state that you know that the CIA has assassinated?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 28, 2020, 08:00:51 PM
He could tell then he have to....make you follow Sooner Football
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 28, 2020, 08:03:41 PM
Hmmm.  A puzzlement.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on July 28, 2020, 08:26:06 PM
Can you name five heads of state that you know that the CIA has assassinated?
Patrice Lumumba - assassinated
Mohammad Mossadegh - overthrown 
Ngo Dinh Diem - assassinated 
Salvador Allende - overthrown, then assassinated. 
Joao Goulart - overthrown, poisoned in exile

Want me to keep going? Seriously do you pay attention to history at all? 

Might as well add Ghadaffi, that Iranian General Solimani, and Sadam to this too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 28, 2020, 08:46:59 PM
Seriously, I'm a history teacher.  Seriously, I have an M.A. in history.

I know you're including "overthrows" there, but the original point was assassinating heads of state.  By the CIA.

I'd say that Mossadegh and Allende are the only "almost-certains" of the assassinations on your list.

The CIA was not involved in the assassination of Diem.  Not even in his overthrow as far as I know.  Our embassy was.

The CIA was not involved in the death of Saddam.  I don't know what prompted you to mention him.  Same with Ghadaffi and Solimari.  If it's done by a foreign court or a military strike, that's not the CIA.  And Solimari was not a head of state.

Seriously, do I try to tell you about the nuts and bolts of your job?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on July 29, 2020, 03:13:07 AM
Seriously, I'm a history teacher.  Seriously, I have an M.A. in history.

I know you're including "overthrows" there, but the original point was assassinating heads of state.  By the CIA.

I'd say that Mossadegh and Allende are the only "almost-certains" of the assassinations on your list.

The CIA was not involved in the assassination of Diem.  Not even in his overthrow as far as I know.  Our embassy was.

The CIA was not involved in the death of Saddam.  I don't know what prompted you to mention him.  Same with Ghadaffi and Solimari.  If it's done by a foreign court or a military strike, that's not the CIA.  And Solimari was not a head of state.

Seriously, do I try to tell you about the nuts and bolts of your job?
CIA was absolutely involved in the assassination of Diem (https://www.newsweek.com/lesson-death-ngo-dinh-diem-597#:~:text=And so%2C 50 years ago,of an armored personnel). They gave the green light. Like they did in virtually every assassination/overthrow in the 50's, 60's, 70's, and 80's.

CIA pin-pointed Solimani's location which led to the drone strike which killed him, the CIA helped pin-point Saddam's location and then interrogated him after he was caught by special forces, and the CIA also pin-pointed Ghaddfi's location for a drone strike which lead to his capture.

I mean, come on man. You seriously can't be this naive. Since the close of WW2 there isn't a government with more blood on it's hands around the world than the US gov't, and it's not even close.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 29, 2020, 08:39:42 AM
The CIA greenlights every operation before it happens. The CIA greenlighted my breakfast today.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 29, 2020, 08:58:41 AM
The CIA greenlights every operation before it happens. The CIA greenlighted my breakfast today.
Did it green light something flavorful? Or healthy?

Follow up, are you actually married to the CIA? This would ... well, it actually wouldn't explain much, but it would change how I saw a couple of your posts.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 29, 2020, 09:00:06 AM
LMAO. Buddy, you know this and I know this- the CIA has been assassinating and overthrowing leaders of foreign countries from it's inception.
It has been illegal since 1974, not before that.

And just because someone claims a thing doesn't make it true, and if they have done it since ca. 1974, it was an illegal act.

I imagine if the CIA really needs it done, they subcontract it anyway covertly.  Solemani was not a head of state.  The CiA did not kill Saddam Hussein.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 29, 2020, 11:09:43 AM
CIA was absolutely involved in the assassination of Diem (https://www.newsweek.com/lesson-death-ngo-dinh-diem-597#:~:text=And so%2C 50 years ago,of an armored personnel). They gave the green light. Like they did in virtually every assassination/overthrow in the 50's, 60's, 70's, and 80's.

CIA pin-pointed Solimani's location which led to the drone strike which killed him, the CIA helped pin-point Saddam's location and then interrogated him after he was caught by special forces, and the CIA also pin-pointed Ghaddfi's location for a drone strike which lead to his capture.

I mean, come on man. You seriously can't be this naive. Since the close of WW2 there isn't a government with more blood on it's hands around the world than the US gov't, and it's not even close.
You do not know these things.  You are quite sure that they are true, but you don't know.
And you're doing OAM's trick with the Motte-and-Baily defense.
We've got more blood on our hands than the USSR did and China does?  Stop hating on your own country so much.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 29, 2020, 11:11:17 AM
The CIA greenlights every operation before it happens. The CIA greenlighted my breakfast today.
Has the CIA greenlighted CD's rotator-cuff surgery?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 29, 2020, 02:10:55 PM
 the death of Saddam and Ghadaffi done by a military strike,

these are not defined as assassinations?

from Webster:     Assassination definition is - murder by sudden or secret attack often for political reasons : the act or an instance of assassinating someone
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 29, 2020, 02:21:49 PM
The CIA greenlights every operation before it happens. The CIA greenlighted my breakfast today.
Wait until the Egg Lobby gets wind of that,I'll hang up and listen
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 29, 2020, 02:32:57 PM
the death of Saddam and Ghadaffi done by a military strike,

these are not defined as assassinations?

from Webster:    Assassination definition is - murder by sudden or secret attack often for political reasons : the act or an instance of assassinating someone

I believe you might need to check your history.

Saddam was executed by hanging at approximately 06:00 UTC +03:00 on the first day of Eid al-Adha (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eid_al-Adha) (30 December 2006).

Gaddafi was wounded by grenade fragmentation from a grenade thrown by one of his own men which bounced off a wall and fell in front of Gaddafi, shredding his flak jacket (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flak_jacket). He sat on the floor dazed and in shock, bleeding from a wound in the left temple. Then one of his group waved a white turban in surrender.[15] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Muammar_Gaddafi#cite_note-in.reuters.com-15)

Gaddafi was killed shortly afterwards.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 29, 2020, 02:34:52 PM
perhaps, I'm well known for a poor memory
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 29, 2020, 02:39:01 PM
the death of Saddam and Ghadaffi done by a military strike,

these are not defined as assassinations?

from Webster:    Assassination definition is - murder by sudden or secret attack often for political reasons : the act or an instance of assassinating someone
Saddam Hussein was hanged after a trial in an Iraqi court.  Would our SCOTUS have upheld the verdict?  Maybe not.
This all started with my skepticism about MDoT's assertion that the CIA has assassinated a whole bunch of heads of state since the end of WWII.
Not enemy generals. Not international terrorists.  Heads of state.
Assassinated by the CIA.
Nor undermined. Not overthrown.  Not found and turned in to the appropriate authorities.  Assassinated.
I think--I don't know, and I doubt that anyone here does--that the CIA has caused two heads of state to be murdered/assassinated.  Mohammed Mossadegh in Iran and Salvador Allende in Chile.
Maybe there have been others.
Again, I don't know.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 29, 2020, 02:41:02 PM
I believe you might need to check your history.

Saddam was executed by hanging at approximately 06:00 UTC +03:00 on the first day of Eid al-Adha (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eid_al-Adha) (30 December 2006).

Gaddafi was wounded by grenade fragmentation from a grenade thrown by one of his own men which bounced off a wall and fell in front of Gaddafi, shredding his flak jacket (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flak_jacket). He sat on the floor dazed and in shock, bleeding from a wound in the left temple. Then one of his group waved a white turban in surrender.[15] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Muammar_Gaddafi#cite_note-in.reuters.com-15)

Gaddafi was killed shortly afterwards.
Thanks!  I didn't think we killed him, even though our then-Secretery of State did a victory dance and said something that rhymed, IIRC. But I couldn't remember the details.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 29, 2020, 02:42:23 PM
Not many heads of state of any interest have been killed while in office over the past few decades.  So, first you have to name one and indicate why you think the CIA did it.  Maybe they did, but I doubt they care about the Prime Minister of Eastern Slobovia.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 29, 2020, 02:50:10 PM
Not many heads of state of any interest have been killed while in office over the past few decades.  So, first you have to name one and indicate why you think the CIA did it.  Maybe they did, but I doubt they care about the Prime Minister of Eastern Slobovia.
Maybe they've all been listed as COVID-19 deaths.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 29, 2020, 02:50:23 PM
Shoulder surgery on the 10th, wife's is on the 3rd.  He said I should be able to drive a manual right away, which is good.  They actually will cut where my bicep attaches to the rotator cuff and plug it into something else.  And a few other things.  The wife had her COVID test today, said it was not fun.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 29, 2020, 03:03:15 PM
Maybe they've all been listed as COVID-19 deaths.
Everyone else is doing it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 29, 2020, 03:11:51 PM
Maybe they've all been listed as COVID-19 deaths.
Ha!

I laughed. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 29, 2020, 04:17:53 PM
Shoulder surgery on the 10th, wife's is on the 3rd.  He said I should be able to drive a manual right away, which is good.  They actually will cut where my bicep attaches to the rotator cuff and plug it into something else.  And a few other things.  The wife had her COVID test today, said it was not fun.


my left bicep needs to be reattached
it's a ball just above the elbow
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 29, 2020, 04:26:37 PM
FORE!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 29, 2020, 04:31:17 PM
have fun storming the greens
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 29, 2020, 04:37:44 PM
A Mumford procedure is the removal of the farthest outer portion of the clavicle (or collarbone) which creates a more normal amount of space for shoulder movements. Some individuals are more likely to have shoulder impingement issues (ie. a pinching in the small spaces in the shoulder) due to their bony anatomy.

Biceps tenodesis is a surgery to repair the biceps tendon. This procedure is typically used when the biceps tendon causes pain in and around the shoulder.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 29, 2020, 04:39:14 PM
Saddam Hussein was hanged after a trial in an Iraqi court.  Would our SCOTUS have upheld the verdict?  Maybe not.
This all started with my skepticism about MDoT's assertion that the CIA has assassinated a whole bunch of heads of state since the end of WWII.
If they were any good Mdot would be right about Castro
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 29, 2020, 04:43:26 PM
With schools looking like they'll be cancelled...err...online, gearing up for more family time in the backyard. I have four of those Roku TVs, so I bought the wireless speakers that go with them so they'll sound better outside. They sound pretty good, let's see if we can annoy the neighbors this weekend
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 29, 2020, 04:43:53 PM
have fun storming the greens
When he's done storming the woods
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 29, 2020, 04:47:31 PM
I suspect the CIA is a lot more prosaic and boring than Hollywood depicts.

I know it's a radical notion that Hollywood on occasion Hollywoods up depictions, but there it is.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 29, 2020, 05:26:01 PM
By the end of 18 holes on Friday, I was getting enough pain in my right forearm that I thought my tennis elbow was going to flare up badly. Thankfully it hasn't gone too badly. It's still a little sore here and there, but hasn't gone badly.

By the end of that round, my middle and ring fingers on my right hand were majorly sore as well. I still don't know why--that's never happened from golf, but then again it had been 5 years since I hit a ball. That took a few days to work itself out. 

I'm going to have to start getting into better shape if I start playing again.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 29, 2020, 05:40:43 PM
When he's done storming the woods
HA!  And the water... and the sand...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 29, 2020, 05:42:30 PM
With schools looking like they'll be cancelled...err...online, gearing up for more family time in the backyard. I have four of those Roku TVs, so I bought the wireless speakers that go with them so they'll sound better outside. They sound pretty good, let's see if we can annoy the neighbors this weekend
Good plan.  We've spent more time in the pool since March 13th, than we have the previous three years combined.  Part of that though, is because we've spent so much less time on the lake, with boat ramps/parks closing down for so much of that time.  I've only had the boat out for 4 weekends in 2020.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 29, 2020, 05:45:36 PM
Good thing they closed down boating or this would have been really bad ....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 29, 2020, 05:48:38 PM
Good thing they closed down boating or this would have been really bad ....
Yeah... exactly.  That was a super high risk activity and is almost certainly the cause of the recent surge in Texas.

Sigh.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 29, 2020, 06:11:34 PM
They didn't shut down squat in Utah, save the bars simply because they could.

They did have to shut down Zion and a few other parks for a while in order to keep the Californians at Bay. They were coming here in droves in order to escape their own laundry list of Covid restrictions.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 29, 2020, 06:21:27 PM
When he's done storming the woods
I thought you were supposed to storm a castle.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 29, 2020, 06:26:30 PM
I thought you were supposed to storm a castle.
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DishonestPerfumedArmyworm-size_restricted.gif)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on July 29, 2020, 11:57:27 PM
Schools opened in a nearby town today.  85% of students chose to attend in person.  Others go virtual.  We're on in a couple of weeks.  Still boating, fishing, etc.   Bass have been moving and hard to locate.  Have had to really try the whole tackle box for once 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 29, 2020, 11:59:31 PM
Schools opened in a nearby town today.  85% of students chose to attend in person.  Others go virtual.  We're on in a couple of weeks.  Still boating, fishing, etc.  Bass have been moving and hard to locate.  Have had to really try the whole tackle box for once
School open in July?  Was this the original plan from last year, or are they maneuvering to beat a potential surge in COVID in the Fall?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on July 30, 2020, 12:23:34 AM
This is pretty much on time for this particular district. Our summer nanny is a HS Science teacher there.  She was thrilled to be going back to classroom.   Lest you think it was because of my kids behavior, you'd be mistaken..  Most Indiana schools around Indy are Aug 6-15th starting dates on average.  Pretty much all are done before Memorial Day.  A handful in the area are not opening up for in person instruction.   Apparently there's a real bus driver and football referee shortage too in parts of town.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 30, 2020, 07:45:30 AM
We're starting on 8/13 here and that's the earliest I can recall, though the average has probably been around 8/20 since our kids started school.

When I was in grade school and high school in the 80s, we often didn't start until after Labor Day.  If we did start earlier, it was typically just a half-week before the holiday.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 30, 2020, 09:06:56 AM
there was some storming on the course last night - lightning horn blew as we were putting on #9

we stormed upstairs to the bar

the water ruined my chance at a good front 9
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on July 30, 2020, 09:15:28 AM
That district does more of a block 'year round' schedule, hence the July start date.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on July 30, 2020, 09:48:48 AM
Apparently there's a real bus driver and football referee shortage too in parts of town.
That I believe. In Minnesota, as of a couple of weeks ago, there were only around 1/3 of football officials compared with last year. Some of that is because deadlines for registration were pushed back to August 9, but considering the median age was well into the 50s, it's not a surprise.

Official guidance coming today in Minnesota for school re-openings. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 30, 2020, 11:00:03 AM
We're starting on 8/13 here and that's the earliest I can recall, though the average has probably been around 8/20 since our kids started school.

When I was in grade school and high school in the 80s, we often didn't start until after Labor Day.  If we did start earlier, it was typically just a half-week before the holiday.
When I was a kid, we started right after Labor Day.
My guess about the change is that it was done to finish the first semester before Christmas Break.  Which is a good thing, I think.
But there are downsides.  Energy consumption is one of them.  It costs more to cool a school building in late August than it does in late May.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 30, 2020, 11:05:55 AM
When I was a kid, we started right after Labor Day.
My guess about the change is that it was done to finish the first semester before Christmas Break.  Which is a good thing, I think.
But there are downsides.  Energy consumption is one of them.  It costs more to cool a school building in late August than it does in late May.
Yes I think you're right, about finishing the semester before Christmas.  We always had a couple of weeks of the first semester AFTER Christmas which, once you're in secondary school, really messes up your ability to study for, and transition smoothly into, Finals.  So it's probably better this way.

Also agree on the downside for energy consumption, at least in the South. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 30, 2020, 11:18:39 AM
I can still remember the first time that they made us start school before September 1st. Fifth grade. 

We still had finals after New Years, and didn't get out until early June. That shift came like ten years later. Like all of a sudden they said "you know. As long as we are starting in August, we could push it up to early August and wrap up the first semester by Christmas."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 30, 2020, 11:49:04 AM
most school bus drivers here are retired people - 65+
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on July 30, 2020, 11:52:41 AM
most school bus drivers here are retired people - 65+
Same.  I went out for drinks a couple years ago with my FIL and a few of his friends.  His brother is a bus driver, and has been, but of the other 6 retirees there, 4 had become bus drivers after retirement.  They all worked for the one District that still owned and operated their own buses, and had a bus driver union.  Most districts around here outsource it now.  First Student services a lot of districts.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on July 30, 2020, 11:56:42 AM
We're starting on 8/13 here and that's the earliest I can recall, though the average has probably been around 8/20 since our kids started school.

When I was in grade school and high school in the 80s, we often didn't start until after Labor Day.  If we did start earlier, it was typically just a half-week before the holiday.
We always started the Tuesday before Labor Day for kids starting a new school (K, 6, 9), then everyone Wednesday for a half day, then in earnest on Thursday, before a three day weekend.

The Northern MI tourist lobby was able to get the state to switch to a 4 day weekend for any District that went back before Labor Day when I was in 9th grade (I think?), so 1998.  After I graduated, they realized how dumb it was for most kids to go back for a day and a half, and then have a 4 day weekend, so they switched back to starting the Tuesday after.

We also added a mid-Winter break in late February to coincide with UMs Spring Break (which is always insanely early) because of how many people who live in Ann Arbor work for the University, and wanted their kid's Spring Break to line up with their own.  Others didn't want a Spring Break 3+ months before the end of the school year so the compromise was the mid-Winter week off, which basically eliminated every 3 day weekend
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on July 30, 2020, 12:05:53 PM
We always started the Tuesday before Labor Day for kids starting a new school (K, 6, 9), then everyone Wednesday for a half day, then in earnest on Thursday, before a three day weekend.

The Northern MI tourist lobby was able to get the state to switch to a 4 day weekend for any District that went back before Labor Day when I was in 9th grade (I think?), so 1998.  After I graduated, they realized how dumb it was for most kids to go back for a day and a half, and then have a 4 day weekend, so they switched back to starting the Tuesday after.

We also added a mid-Winter break in late February to coincide with UMs Spring Break (which is always insanely early) because of how many people who live in Ann Arbor work for the University, and wanted their kid's Spring Break to line up with their own.  Others didn't want a Spring Break 3+ months before the end of the school year so the compromise was the mid-Winter week off, which basically eliminated every 3 day weekend
As a kid, I never liked that weekend. You got a taste of school and then a stretch where the long return just loomed. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on July 30, 2020, 12:29:07 PM
Yeah, I couldn't even enjoy that weekend, aside from college football starting
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 30, 2020, 03:54:05 PM
This is not good. Who in their right mind would want this job right now? 


Three Chicago police officers and a suspect in a carjacking were injured in an exchange of gunfire at a Northwest Side police station during an arrest Thursday morning, according to authorities.

Dozens of shots were fired, according to one source. One officer who was shot and seriously wounded was taken to Advocate Illinois Masonic Medical Center for treatment, officials said. The person police believe to be the “offender” in the incident at the Grand Central police station also was shot, police said.

Three other officers were taken to Loyola University Medical Center in Maywood in “very good condition,” according to a Chicago Fire Department spokesman.

At a news briefing late Thursday morning, Chicago police Superintendent David Brown said the most seriously wounded officer was shot in the chin and his bulletproof vest. A second officer was struck in his vest, but the round did not penetrate it; a third was shot in the hip; and a fourth officer was transported with chest pains.

The police officers recognized the vehicle from a carjacking that occurred downtown on June 26, Brown said, citing a preliminary investigation. He did not disclose where the arrest took place but described the suspect as a “violent, carjacking” offender.

“I want to strongly emphasize the inherent danger that these and all Chicago police officers experience everyday protecting the residents of Chicago,” Brown said. ”When they leave home, they leave their loved ones, and put these stars on and risk everything. They risk everything protecting all of us.”

Initial information from police sources describe the incident as occurring at about 9:40 a.m. while the suspect was in custody and being transferred to the district’s station at 5555 W. Grand Ave. The shooting happened at or near a sally port, a pathway used by police to take prisoners to the lockup.

During the transport , the offender was able to fire multiple shots at the arresting officers. It was not immediately clear whether the man was armed or was able to take a gun from one of the injured officers.

Brown asked for prayers for all of the injured officers. Asked by a reporter if all the officers were expected to make a full recovery, Brown said, ”We pray and hope so.‘'


Mayor Lori Lightfoot also asked for prayers. On Twitter Thursday she said, “We’re continuing to monitor the situation and will provide updates as they become available.”

“Today is a searing reminder of the danger our men and women of our Police Department face every day they put on their uniforms and leave their homes,” Lightfoot wrote. “This is the sacrifice they make in order to serve and protect our city and fellow residents.”


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 30, 2020, 04:01:00 PM
be careful out there
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 30, 2020, 04:37:08 PM
Yeah, I couldn't even enjoy that weekend, aside from college football starting
I always liked school so it didn't bother me one way or the other.

In high school, that was typically the first football game of the year, and it was often a distant road-game.  I was in marching band so we traveled to all football games, and spending 3-4 hours on the bus with a bunch of cute flute and clarinet players was something I very much looked forward to... :)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 30, 2020, 04:37:53 PM
@847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) -- Get your ass back to Florida.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on July 30, 2020, 06:52:30 PM
I always liked school so it didn't bother me one way or the other.

In high school, that was typically the first football game of the year, and it was often a distant road-game.  I was in marching band so we traveled to all football games, and spending 3-4 hours on the bus with a bunch of cute flute and clarinet players was something I very much looked forward to... :)
I have many of our state-champion marching band members in my classes.  As a rule, they're pretty-good-to-great students.
I think they practice far more hours than the state-champion football team does.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 31, 2020, 09:06:56 AM
@847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) -- Get your ass back to Florida. 
I'm in Wisconsin now. Kenosha, on my boat, and fairly well armed (not that I need it here).

My days in Chicago and Illinois are officially over. All I have to do is drive through it, to get to Florida.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 31, 2020, 10:31:12 AM
Everything is quiet here, and hot (duh).  I bought an 8x2 above ground planter box to put on the deck.  I already have a 2x2 box.  So, I'm still gardening, without deer.

I have my presurgery medical today, should be fine, and COVID test Wednesday.  The wife has her surgery Monday, so things will change, she'll be in an arm brace for some time (left) and unable to do much.

My doc says I should be able to shift gears soon after surgery, and kid from Texas is coming Friday.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 31, 2020, 10:36:03 AM
Father in law was downsizing his patio footprint and so the Big Joe and Little Joe got a new friend...

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 31, 2020, 12:20:17 PM
Cool, is that an electric smoker?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 31, 2020, 12:36:11 PM
Cool, is that an electric smoker?

Pellet smoker. It's a Traeger.

It has a little electric heat element that ignites wood pellets. The pellets are driven into the fire chamber with an auger with feed rate based on temp.

So the heat source is actually burning wood, not the electric element; the electric element just keeps them lit.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 31, 2020, 12:37:44 PM
Interesting.  Obviously, those aren't particular common around here, although there are a couple of the very large commercial chains that do.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 31, 2020, 01:11:18 PM
They've really grown in popularity as far as I can tell just over the last 5 years, just like kamado-style grills. A lot of it has been cost-cutting (for both) to move them from an middle-upper price point, i.e. $800-1500, down to a more mainstream price point like $500-600. You can get Traeger at Costco road shows pretty cheap, and there are more "budget" brands that are lower. You can find a decent 2nd-tier brand kamado in the $500-700 price point, whereas BGE and Kamado Joe are priced significantly higher. 

I wouldn't be surprised if they start showing up even in Texas. It isn't a dedicated smoker, it's kind of a smoker/oven/grill. So even though the Texas BBQ purists will still use their offsets, this might still be used for a lot of people as a replacement for their propane grill.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 31, 2020, 01:32:21 PM
I don't see it replacing an offset for BBQ, not here.  It's a status thing as much as anything else.

Folks might use them for grilling, I guess.  But built-in natural gas grills are really common, as is propane.  Not sure a lot of folks would be willing to buy yet another appliance for that function.

Ceramics are definitely gaining in popularity here, though, so who knows.  I really like them for their versatility.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 31, 2020, 01:41:31 PM
pellet grills/smokers very popular here

something about pellets just doesn't appeal to me, but they have many choices for different hardwoods and flavors of smoke

and there's no need to monitor the temp and add wood
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 31, 2020, 01:47:37 PM
pellet grills/smokers very popular here

something about pellets just doesn't appeal to me, but they have many choices for different hardwoods and flavors of smoke

and there's no need to monitor the temp and add wood

Sure, but that's kind of the point of the BBQ experience. :)

I can get delicious BBQ at any number of restaurants around me, if I don't feel like managing the firebox on my own rig.  But then I'd be expected to do all sorts of honey-dos that aren't nearly as much fun as drinking beer and sitting by the pit for hours on end. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 31, 2020, 01:59:44 PM
there's no need to let the wife know it's automated

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 31, 2020, 02:05:49 PM
pellet grills/smokers very popular here

something about pellets just doesn't appeal to me, but they have many choices for different hardwoods and flavors of smoke

and there's no need to monitor the temp and add wood
For me, as you can see I don't own a propane grill. I've been considering getting one as a "weekday" grill where I don't need to worry about all the manual aspects of charcoal. I love the kamado, but it's more work if I'm just wanting to throw something on that doesn't really warrant a lot of fuss. 

The one big downside for pellet grills is that they don't sear well. They are generally all built with a deflector to even out the heat because they only have one "burner", i.e. fire chamber, right in the center of the grill. So they're pretty decent for smoking, and they're good for roasting and other things that require indirect heat. But they're not the best for getting a hard crust on a steak or burger. So if you're looking for high direct heat, it's not the best option. 

I don't think anything beats an offset for a smoker, but that's a one trick pony. If you're looking for one "do it all" grill/smoker, a pellet grill is pretty good.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 31, 2020, 02:10:42 PM
there's no need to let the wife know it's automated


My i s c & a aggie wife was raised by the man who manufactured and sold offset pits for two decades, the man who gifted me my the very offset I currently use-- she knows the difference. :)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 31, 2020, 02:12:11 PM
I have a small table top Weber gas grill that I use for steaks.  I can peg the thermometer at 600 degrees.

it's quick, easy, and convenient for steaks, burgers, brats, and chicken.

I prefer charcoal, but not enough to give up the time it takes to get the charcoal ready.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 31, 2020, 02:13:24 PM
My i s c & a aggie wife was raised by the man who manufactured and sold offset pits for two decades-- she knows the difference. :)


no need for her to be out there snooping around

try to keep her busy inside preparing salads or something
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 31, 2020, 02:17:01 PM
For me, as you can see I don't own a propane grill. I've been considering getting one as a "weekday" grill where I don't need to worry about all the manual aspects of charcoal. I love the kamado, but it's more work if I'm just wanting to throw something on that doesn't really warrant a lot of fuss.

The one big downside for pellet grills is that they don't sear well. They are generally all built with a deflector to even out the heat because they only have one "burner", i.e. fire chamber, right in the center of the grill. So they're pretty decent for smoking, and they're good for roasting and other things that require indirect heat. But they're not the best for getting a hard crust on a steak or burger. So if you're looking for high direct heat, it's not the best option.

I don't think anything beats an offset for a smoker, but that's a one trick pony. If you're looking for one "do it all" grill/smoker, a pellet grill is pretty good.

I can use my offset as a charcoal grill or even a wood-burning.  I have charcoal spreaders underneath the main grates of the 22"x48" main cooking chamber, but the firebox itself also has a hinged lid and a cooking grate about 16" over the wood grate, so I can either use charcoal there for direct cooking, or even burn sticks down to coals, which is what I typically do when I cook steaks over mesquite.

But that's still definitely not as versatile as a ceramic, for example getting and holding temps up in that "pizza oven range" would consume a LOT of fuel. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 31, 2020, 02:32:43 PM
The annual Cleveland.com preseason media poll pegs the Huskers for a fourth-place finish in the Big Ten West.

https://www.cleveland.com/osu/2020/07/ohio-state-voted-2020-big-ten-favorite-in-clevelandcom-preseason-poll.html (https://www.cleveland.com/osu/2020/07/ohio-state-voted-2020-big-ten-favorite-in-clevelandcom-preseason-poll.html)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 31, 2020, 02:39:31 PM
I can use my offset as a charcoal grill or even a wood-burning.  I have charcoal spreaders underneath the main grates of the 22"x48" main cooking chamber, but the firebox itself also has a hinged lid and a cooking grate about 16" over the wood grate, so I can either use charcoal there for direct cooking, or even burn sticks down to coals, which is what I typically do when I cook steaks over mesquite.

But that's still definitely not as versatile as a ceramic, for example getting and holding temps up in that "pizza oven range" would consume a LOT of fuel. :)
Ahh, that's good. I know there are some that do dual duty, but wasn't sure what you had. 

If I find an extra $5000, this is what I'd like:


(https://i.imgur.com/f61Q3Ri.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 31, 2020, 02:47:08 PM
Speaking of pizza oven I need to set that up again. That thing was kind of fun
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 31, 2020, 02:53:36 PM
The Weber Q 2200 is a fine grill for easy weekday cooking.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 31, 2020, 03:05:53 PM
Ahh, that's good. I know there are some that do dual duty, but wasn't sure what you had.

If I find an extra $5000, this is what I'd like:


(https://i.imgur.com/f61Q3Ri.png)

Wow, that is a hoss of a pit.  And of course I like the Longhorn logo on it.  But don't show our AD, he'd likely sue for trademark infringement! ;)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 31, 2020, 04:05:10 PM
they will probably offer one with a block "N" in RED for northerners
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on July 31, 2020, 04:52:11 PM
Wow, that is a hoss of a pit.  And of course I like the Longhorn logo on it.  But don't show our AD, he'd likely sue for trademark infringement! ;)
Well you can always come back on him for Queing up Bevo
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on July 31, 2020, 05:58:59 PM
I confess, I have never understood the obsession with grilling, smoking, bbqing. I have a weber propane grill that I use regular to cook, just to keep the heat out of the house, but forget, special feature, smokes, sauces, rubs, etc. Just sounds like too much work to me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 31, 2020, 06:07:08 PM
I think there is appeal in taking a cheap cut of meat and turning it into something delectable.

It takes a lot of time.

I had an electric smoker back in Cincy, you set it and forgot it, which was kind of boring.  It worked very well though.  It had a thingee for wood chips.

Put T probe in meat, turn it to desired heat seating, and go drink beer for 12 hours.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 31, 2020, 06:27:23 PM
I confusion, I have never understood the obsession with grilling, smoking, bbqing. I have a weber propane grill that I use regular to cook, just to keep the heat out of the house, but forget, special feature, smokes, sauces, rubs, etc. Just sounds like too much work to me.
Are you normally a foodie or cook? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 31, 2020, 06:35:05 PM
I confusion, I have never understood the obsession with grilling, smoking, bbqing. I have a weber propane grill that I use regular to cook, just to keep the heat out of the house, but forget, special feature, smokes, sauces, rubs, etc. Just sounds like too much work to me.
You don't really need all that to make good bbq. I've never tried to smoke something using a gas grill but it's fairly easy on a kettle charcoal. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on July 31, 2020, 06:54:39 PM
The key is to have low heat, preferably offset rather than direct, and time.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 31, 2020, 07:30:38 PM
I mean, you can cook a brisket on a kettle charcoal grill, it's just a lot more work.  And it's still not going to come out the same as an offset.


Like anything, having the right tool for the job makes it much easier and the end results are better.  I can pound a nail into a board with the side of my power drill, it's something I've done before, but a hammer works a hell of a lot better, and the end result is superior.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 31, 2020, 07:34:11 PM
I mean, you can cook a brisket on a kettle charcoal grill, it's just a lot more work.  And it's still not going to come out the same as an offset.


Like anything, having the right tool for the job makes it much easier and the end results are better.  I can pound a nail into a board with the side of my power drill, it's something I've done before, but a hammer works a hell of a lot better, and the end result is superior.


I dunno about that. Brisket is about the easiest thing on a kettle grill. Especially if you find one that's shaped like the side of the grill.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 31, 2020, 08:30:48 PM
Man an absolutely perfect evening in Ohio.  Kids are in the pool, I'm having a drinksi and watching the Reds on the back patio.  Warm enough but with a little breeze, feels awesome.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 31, 2020, 08:45:54 PM
In the 90s here. But that means it's hot enough for A/C so using the oven tonight won't kill us all. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 31, 2020, 08:47:58 PM
We have the kids tonight, so it's sloppy joe's with tater tots and grilled corn on the cob. Because we need a "vegetable" with all that lol. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 31, 2020, 08:51:35 PM
We have the kids tonight, so it's sloppy joe's with tater tots and grilled corn on the cob. Because we need a "vegetable" with all that lol.
What's your go to sloppy joe recipe?

I had some gnocchi that got shipped to me, so I made sauteed some shallot, garlic, carrot, and prosciutto in olive oil and butter, then put in some cauliflower and white wine and covered until it was cooked.  Finished with some more butter and lemon juice and oregano.  Not bad at all I thought.  Been trying to cook more vegetables, which causes massive complaints among the family but at least if I screw it up they won't eat it anyway.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 31, 2020, 09:38:54 PM
I dunno about that. Brisket is about the easiest thing on a kettle grill. Especially if you find one that's shaped like the side of the grill.
Yeah... no.

I've "smoked" brisket on a kettle grill.  It's not the same.  Like I said, it can be done.  But it's not going to come out like Central Texas BBQ.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on July 31, 2020, 09:48:46 PM
definitely a different smoke

not the blue smoke from an offset with hardwood
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 31, 2020, 10:27:52 PM
Yeah... no.

I've "smoked" brisket on a kettle grill.  It's not the same.  Like I said, it can be done.  But it's not going to come out like Central Texas BBQ.
Nah.. but it will be barely distinguishable. That's the thing...all the equipment in the world will maybe get you a 5 percent change in quality. In any event very easy to make very good brisket on a kettle grill. That's the thing about most foods - people argue about steaks, chili, bbq, but you can almost always deliver a very high quality product with minimal investment. It's that last 5 percent people go on about, but most wouldn't be able to tell the difference anyway.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 31, 2020, 10:57:08 PM
What's your go to sloppy joe recipe?
Tyler Florence "Ultimate" sloppy joe. 

Wife is in charge on this one. I don't particularly involve myself. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 31, 2020, 10:59:37 PM
Nah.. but it will be barely distinguishable. That's the thing...all the equipment in the world will maybe get you a 5 percent change in quality. In any event very easy to make very good brisket on a kettle grill. That's the thing about most foods - people argue about steaks, chili, bbq, but you can almost always deliver a very high quality product with minimal investment. It's that last 5 percent people go on about, but most wouldn't be able to tell the difference anyway.
Disagree. Brisket is very temperamental. You can do it on a kettle, but it won't be the same. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on July 31, 2020, 11:06:13 PM
Traegers are pretty good.  I don't have one, BIL does, its really good for fish and whole birds.  As noted not best for a hot sear.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 31, 2020, 11:10:11 PM
Disagree. Brisket is very temperamental. You can do it on a kettle, but it won't be the same.
I mean...good brisket will be smoky, tender, have a good bark. All of these are very easy on a kettle grill. You have to crutch it, but that's hardly special. The only difference I can find is easier to build a really good bark when you have more space to work.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on July 31, 2020, 11:34:55 PM

Disagree. Brisket is very temperamental. You can do it on a kettle, but it won't be the same.

Right.  I've done it on a kettle.  It can be done.  It's not the same, and not anywhere close to within 5% of the same.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on July 31, 2020, 11:40:18 PM
Right.  I've done it on a kettle.  It can be done.  It's not the same, and not anywhere close to within 5% of the same.
Sorry, but the brisket doesn't care about the heat source.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on August 01, 2020, 12:03:35 AM
Tyler Florence "Ultimate" sloppy joe.

Wife is in charge on this one. I don't particularly involve myself.
Our family sloppy joe recipe has been in the family for three to four generations, but I'm the first one to call it a sloppy joe recipe. We always called it barbecue growing up, although it is in no way barbecue.  Our neighbors are impressed that we even have a homemade sloppy joe recipe, but it is a go-to staple for me in the summer.  That and my grandmother's ragu sauce remind me of home more than anything
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on August 01, 2020, 12:16:03 AM
And you don t share the recipe.:'(

Maybe its in the board cookbook thread.

I keep a couple around.   Good eats for sure.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 01, 2020, 03:45:17 AM
I'd enjoy a sloppy joe with a Heinz 57 base.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 01, 2020, 07:15:57 AM
I like a good sloppy joe - though it's one of those things that I tend to just throw together in the kitchen when I think of it as opposed to following a recipe.  My kids would probably prefer I follow a recipe.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 01, 2020, 07:22:00 AM
No master chef here when it comes to brisket.  

But I am lucky by location.  Unlike when I lived in Michigan, plenty of places down here to get brisket but by far the best I’ve ever had is this little lunch truck that sits permanently parked about 2 miles from my house. If meat can be mouthwatering this brisket truly is.

Next time I get some I will take a photograph for you all. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 01, 2020, 08:20:15 AM
No master chef here when it comes to brisket. 

But I am lucky by location.  Unlike when I lived in Michigan, plenty of places down here to get brisket but by far the best I’ve ever had is this little lunch truck that sits permanently parked about 2 miles from my house. If meat can be mouthwatering this brisket truly is.

Next time I get some I will take a photograph for you all.
Sounds good - I love food trucks.  I will stan for cheap ways to cook food forever.  BBQ is just an evolution of various methods to preserve meat (smoking) and cooking cheaper cuts.  You need a heat source and a smoke source, and that's it.  We had a pig roast for my daughter's birthday and I built a pit out of cinderblocks, rebar, and some old fence.  I'm sure there is a $10,000 contraption that also would have cooked the pig, but that really takes away from the how much fun BBQ is.  I was reading a book about Thai BBQ and how some of them use an old barrel that is typically used to capture rain water. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 01, 2020, 08:33:06 AM
We used to have a lot of food trucks near us daily, but they have disappeared with folks not coming into work.  It was nice to have so many options if I wanted, but I noticed it was getting pricey, lunch would be $10-12.  I can do better, I think, at some sit downs.  Or just eat lunch here of course.  The other issue was lines and the wait for some of them.  Maybe they are back, construction eliminated one of the places they'd set up.  But I think folks who worked here in the past aren't coming to work in anything like historical numbers.  The big construction projects haven't missed a beat apparently.  I think those guys bring their lunch.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 01, 2020, 08:34:43 AM
Next time I get some I will take a photograph for you all.
I'd rather you not unless you're going to send me some.Like that bastage Bwarb who likes posting pictures just to rub it in
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 01, 2020, 08:40:30 AM
Sounds good - I love food trucks.  I will stan for cheap ways to cook food forever.  BBQ is just an evolution of various methods to preserve meat (smoking) and cooking cheaper cuts.
Problem is the Cheap cuts aren't so cheap anymore.The Butchers are onto the "Q" folks
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 01, 2020, 08:58:43 AM
Problem is the Cheap cuts aren't so cheap anymore.The Butchers are onto the "Q" folks
Definitely true. Oxtail might as well be prime rib
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 01, 2020, 10:04:49 AM
I blame the Food Network and Cooking Channel for driving up meat costs.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 01, 2020, 10:05:54 AM
And the Egg Lobby, can't forget about them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 01, 2020, 10:15:43 AM
Dammit. How could I forget.

Also... to those of you on the East Coast of Florida and North, I wish you well with this hurricane thing. My area of Florida will be spared, thankfully, but not the other side, which also has all of that China virus to deal with.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 01, 2020, 10:40:26 AM
Hopefully it veers offshore and stays fairly light for a hurricane.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 01, 2020, 12:40:26 PM
Dammit. How could I forget.

Also... to those of you on the East Coast of Florida and North, I wish you well with this hurricane thing. My area of Florida will be spared, thankfully, but not the other side, which also has all of that China virus to deal with.
Thanks badge. It’s kind of funny that when I moved here in early 2016 everybody said I don’t worry we get a hurricane every 10 years. This will be my fourth

Nice right now.  Calm before the storm.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 01, 2020, 02:06:02 PM
And the Egg Lobby, can't forget about them.
(https://untappedcities.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/The-Egg-House-Egg-Themed-Pop-Up-Eggventure-Lower-East-Side-195-Chrystier-Street-NYC-Shanghai1-1.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 01, 2020, 02:09:44 PM
(https://deadhomersociety.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/runningegg.gif)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on August 02, 2020, 12:33:07 AM
I blame the Food Network and Cooking Channel for driving up meat costs.
It's all Chili's fault on skirt steak/fajitas, and I'm not even kidding.  Inside skirt was $.59/lb before Chili's ruined it for all of us.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 02, 2020, 12:37:31 AM
(https://deadhomersociety.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/runningegg.gif)
The only problem with this gif is that Homer is alone...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 02, 2020, 08:01:15 AM
It's all Chili's fault on skirt steak/fajitas, and I'm not even kidding.  Inside skirt was $.59/lb before Chili's ruined it for all of us.
How sweet would that be - i'd be set for life.Like Alton Brown throwing it directly on coals for a minute,flip it after another minute then remove & brush the debris off and Cover it in foil for 15 minutes to finish.I was slobbering like a St Bernard watching that episode
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 08:33:45 AM
Problem is the Cheap cuts aren't so cheap anymore.The Butchers are onto the "Q" folks
I used to buy flatiron at Kroger ten years ago for $5/lb, delicious flavor, a bit tough, now it's $10.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 02, 2020, 11:46:06 AM
The only problem with this gif is that Homer is alone...

If you watch the extended clip, you will see that he does have company, but that they are in cahoots with the egg lobby. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OZkCXbbEJw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OZkCXbbEJw)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 02, 2020, 12:24:08 PM
So, the house speaker just gave a "no confidence" statement regarding Dr. Birx, saying that the Dr. is an appointee of the president. It is true that the president called upon her to lead the virus task force in January, drawing from her role as a US diplomat in the health fields, and from her role as the US Global coordinator for AIDS.

She was appointed to that top role in January of 2014, by some other guy.

My vote of no confidence goes to the house speaker.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 02, 2020, 12:39:59 PM
Birx said we're in a "new phase"...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/02/politics/birx-coronavirus-new-phase-cnntv/index.html

I worry that, much like Fauci, she may attract the ire of her boss... 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 02, 2020, 12:45:07 PM
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Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 02, 2020, 12:53:10 PM
Birx said we're in a "new phase"...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/02/politics/birx-coronavirus-new-phase-cnntv/index.html

I worry that, much like Fauci, she may attract the ire of her boss...
I think a lot of that "ire" is over blown. I don't believe much of anything, anymore. Kinda sad.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 02, 2020, 01:12:30 PM
it's all just political bullshirt

the folks in Washington just want us to believe they are really trying to change things for the better

they are really trying to do nothing by placing blame back and forth with changing nothing - just lip service

it's like the yankees and red socks are on the same team, not trying to win the game, just play the game forever
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 02:19:11 PM
It sounds like Trump's newest passion is to destroy the post office so people can't use it to vote for him. #PublicService

It's kind of amazing how dysfunctional our country has become. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 02, 2020, 02:22:25 PM
It sounds like Trump's newest passion is to destroy the post office so people can't use it to vote for him. #PublicService

It's kind of amazing how dysfunctional our country has become.
It will only get worse unless WE do something about it.

A republic, if you can keep it, and all that.

As for the post office... it can go away. It's not needed anymore. UPS and FedEx are cheaper too. Private companies.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 02:24:23 PM
Politics is always thus.  I tired of despairing about it.  The more I read of history the more I realize we just can't get along.  Humans are tribal, we take sides, and our side it always right and the other side always wrong.

It reminds me of something.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 02, 2020, 02:26:46 PM
I'd like to get back to where we were in the '80's. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 02:29:56 PM
The 1880's?

I read a biography of Grant recently, holy cow.

The Old Days were perhaps not what we remember.  And the 1980s were not some gracious climate either except between Tip and Reagan.  And yes, the antipathy in public is worse now, egged on by both sides, and that lobby thing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 02, 2020, 02:43:17 PM
In the 19080's you could freely discuss policies and politics without being shamed, or even attacked. We are extremely divided, and that started in Washington, in the late 1990's or so, for whatever reason.

I'd like to see a plan for fixing this. It's more important than a plan to prevent the climate from changing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 02:47:35 PM
In the 19080's you could freely discuss policies and politics without being shamed, or even attacked. We are extremely divided, and that started in Washington, in the late 1990's or so, for whatever reason.

I'd like to see a plan for fixing this. It's more important than a plan to prevent the climate from changing.
More democracy would be good. Get rid of the electoral college, make voting a priority, ensure the vote getters are the ones making decisions. It's difficult to have a ton of respect for a non-democratically elected government.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 02:51:07 PM
The Electoral College is another one of those things I quite worrying about since it's not going to "go away".

The efforts by some states to change how they determine Electors is the best chance at de facto.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 02, 2020, 02:54:33 PM
Respectfully- I would strongly oppose eliminating the electoral college.  

It serves the exact purpose it was designed for- to support that we are a union of states, each with its own unique cultures and issues.  

But I do miss the days where you could have a spirited conversation with friends or associates about the political issues of the day and it didn’t end in fistfights or gunfire.

I am not sure what changed it but I have to believe that social media has contributed to it.

Also- while I do not have any respectable suggestions for a replacement, the two party system just does not seem to work anymore. 

Rarely do I see a politician in either party that I can truly respect and get behind.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 02, 2020, 02:56:11 PM
The electoral college is one of the reasons why our states are united as a republic.

Get rid of that, and it's over. Illinois, California, New York, New Jersey, Texas, Florida and a few others. 

That's about all that would matter. Wyoming may as well just not exist.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 03:00:52 PM
The electoral college is one of the reasons why our states are united as a republic.

Get rid of that, and it's over. Illinois, California, New York, New Jersey, Texas, Florida and a few others.

That's about all that would matter. Wyoming may as well just not exist.
This is wrong. For one, Wyoming doesn't exist as it is, because it has minimal electoral votes and almost always votes Republican. There is no reason for either candidate to campaign there. Getting rid of the electoral college means there is a reason to campaign there, and pay attention to what the voters want.

For two, states already have senators, which represent a state's interests. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 02, 2020, 03:11:22 PM
This is wrong. For one, Wyoming doesn't exist as it is, because it has minimal electoral votes and almost always votes Republican. There is no reason for either candidate to campaign there. Getting rid of the electoral college means there is a reason to campaign there, and pay attention to what the voters want.

For two, states already have senators, which represent a state's interests.
I don't this country run completely by the coastal large cities, most of which are a disaster.

The two senators from Illinois didn't represent my personal interests. That's why I'm gone.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 03:14:09 PM
I don't this country run completely by the coastal large cities, most of which are a disaster.

The two senators from Illinois didn't represent my personal interests. That's why I'm gone.
Ok. The electoral college promotes elections being swing towards a small portion of the electorate. It's promoting the things you hate.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 03:15:39 PM
Whether it's good or bad, we have it, and it won't change, so why worry about it?

I imagine had the pop vote/EC thing favored the other party, the other party would be now clamoring for its demise.  Not that it matters.

Not going to change.  This isn't a democracy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 03:16:45 PM
It only matters for the President of course, and we're not talking about a SMALL portion of the electorate.

Our FFs feared a pure democracy as much as a monarchy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 03:17:25 PM
Whether it's good or bad, we have it, and it won't change, so why worry about it?

I imagine had the pop vote/EC thing favored the other party, the other party would be now clamoring for its demise.  Not that it matters.

Not going to change.  This isn't a democracy.
Well not with that attitude. Though lots of things that will never change eventually changed so I figure what's one more?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 03:19:18 PM
Well not with that attitude. Though lots of things that will never change eventually changed so I figure what's one more?

I have a much much lower appreciation for the influence of "my attitude" than you apparently.  I just don't waste energy pining for things that won't happen, like replacing Pelosi or whatever else.

The barrier to replacing the EC is simply too high, so it won't happen in my lifetime.  So, I don't worry about it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 03:20:24 PM
I have a much much lower appreciation for the influence of "my attitude" than you apparently.  I just don't waste energy pining for things that won't happen, like replacing Pelosi or whatever else.

The barrier to replacing the EC is simply too high, so it won't happen in my lifetime.  So, I don't worry about it.
Definitely not asking you to worry about it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 03:23:46 PM
Definitely not asking you to worry about it.
You seem disdainful of my "attitude".  My attitude is not to worry about it.  Make up your mind.

That worries me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 03:32:16 PM
You seem disdainful of my "attitude".  My attitude is not to worry about it.  Make up your mind.

That worries me.
You do have kind of defeatist attitude, which honestly is pretty common anymore in this country. We "can't" do a Heck of a lot of things. The current thing we can't possibly do is have people voting by mail. The electoral college is a relic that really doesn't make any sense. We can't do anything about it. Building anything is more or less a series of can'ts.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 03:41:00 PM
Well, you seem to have it all under control, so I can relax.

I meanwhile am a realist, the product of many years or reality crushing my soul.  I'll let the youngster charge windmills whilst I watch and have a beer.

Have at it.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 02, 2020, 03:44:04 PM
Some people are results-oriented and others are process-oriented.  Being apathetic because the desired result isn't going to happen in your lifetime is results-oriented.  It may also be described as short-sighted or even selfish.  

Being optimistic of something happening down the road, and believing your actions will continue it (or even accelerate it a tiny bit) down the path is process-oriented.  It may also be described as sacrificial or an investment in our future.  

Reminds me of that ancient Greek proverb:  “A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit."

Some people don't give a damn about a great society, just a comfortable life.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 03:52:20 PM
Well, I don't give a hoot about what you view as selfish, obviously.  If you want to "do something" about the electoral college, be my guest.

I don't.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 05:16:38 PM
In any event, the electoral college making for some wacky politics, as elections boil down to a handful of states and whatever their pet issues are.  There's no incentive to campaign in every state nor address the issues of every person, since the math makes it dumb to do so.  Similarly, the math makes third parties an impossible option.  Some changes in voting could open that up - ranked choice voting, proportional voting - there are other systems out there to fit the needs of what we want.  But so far, what we want is an electoral college that makes no sense and and to choose between a Republican and Democrat in nearly every election.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 02, 2020, 05:22:30 PM
The electoral college gives small states a small voice instead of no voice at all, as would be the case without it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 05:23:45 PM
The electoral college gives small states a small voice instead of no voice at all, as would be the case without it.
That's the pitch, and it is completely false.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 02, 2020, 05:24:38 PM
Without it, it would just be a competition to see which candidate the coastal folk find more appealing. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 05:27:08 PM
Before 2000, the EC and the popular vote coincided in every case but one, as I recall.  

I sort of enjoy the pandemonium and cries of unfairness every time it happens and youngsters discover the Electoral College and think it's unfair because they think we're a democracy.

If I thought there was any realistic chance it might change, I might ponder it a bit more.  But really it's like complaining about gravity.

Which is something of an illusion of course.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 05:32:09 PM
Without it, it would just be a competition to see which candidate the coastal folk find more appealing.
Take Idaho.  Four electoral votes, a population of about 1.8 million people.  Right now, with the electoral college, there is zero reason for Republicans or Democrats to pay attention to this state or the people in it.  Democrats have no shot to win the state, so why should they care about any of the people there?  Republicans have no competition there, so why should they care?

If you remove the electoral college, there is reason for both parties to pay attention, because they need to win as many votes as they can, and there is a reason for them to try and win those votes.  It would also be this way across the entire country - so Republicans would have incentive to get votes in New York and California (where right now they have none). 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 05:33:33 PM
Before 2000, the EC and the popular vote coincided in every case but one, as I recall. 

I sort of enjoy the pandemonium and cries of unfairness every time it happens and youngsters discover the Electoral College and think it's unfair because they think we're a democracy.

If I thought there was any realistic chance it might change, I might ponder it a bit more.  But really it's like complaining about gravity.

Which is something of an illusion of course.
If Texas and Georgia start going blue then we might see it change.  Hard to say, the oldsters don't think anything can change.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 02, 2020, 05:38:30 PM
In any event, the electoral college making for some wacky politics, as elections boil down to a handful of states and whatever their pet issues are.  There's no incentive to campaign in every state nor address the issues of every person, since the math makes it dumb to do so.  Similarly, the math makes third parties an impossible option.  Some changes in voting could open that up - ranked choice voting, proportional voting - there are other systems out there to fit the needs of what we want.  But so far, what we want is an electoral college that makes no sense and and to choose between a Republican and Democrat in nearly every election.
Even though I am very much in favor of the electoral college I have to admit you are correct about it does promote a two party system which in turn, I think is ineffective. 
If it meant we could do something different then a two party system then I would be in favor of eliminating the electoral college so for me it’s a little bit of a catch 22 because with a two party system there’s no way I could support illumination of the EC.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 02, 2020, 05:38:56 PM
Before 2000, the EC and the popular vote coincided in every case but one, as I recall. 

I sort of enjoy the pandemonium and cries of unfairness every time it happens and youngsters discover the Electoral College and think it's unfair because they think we're a democracy.

If I thought there was any realistic chance it might change, I might ponder it a bit more.  But really it's like complaining about gravity.

Which is something of an illusion of course.
I find it very disturbing that so many "kids" think we are a democracy. Makes me wonder what they are being taught in school by history revisionists. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 05:40:12 PM
I expect TX and GA to turn purple fairly soon, and I expect the EC will survive even that just fine.  The barrier to change is simply too high, and of course, if TX and GA are purple, it won't matter in terms of outcomes anyway.

We'll be back to popular vote wins of 4-5-6% and EC wins of a much larger apparent margin and folks will forget the EC even exists.

I think the widest spread in recent history is not that much of a spread on the popular vote really, 59%?  And the number of candidate who have achieved a majority in the popular vote is also remarkably small of late.

So, even by the popular vote, the President is elected by a plurality at best.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 05:40:14 PM
I find it very disturbing that so many "kids" think we are a democracy. Makes me wonder what they are being taught in school by history revisionists.
History.  We are supposed to be a democracy.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 05:41:03 PM
I find it very disturbing that so many "kids" think we are a democracy. Makes me wonder what they are being taught in school by history revisionists.

The term is thrown around so often it gets blurred.  And kids didn't pay attention to this stuff, I know I didn't.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 05:41:19 PM
History.  We are supposed to be a democracy. 
Surely you know better than this.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 02, 2020, 05:41:25 PM
Eliminating the EC would give total control to the 10 most populous states - most of the ones that are run the worst in the nation.

Nah.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 02, 2020, 05:42:17 PM
Surely you know better than this.
Depends on when the indoctrination occurred. :'(
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 02, 2020, 05:43:34 PM
Take Idaho.  Four electoral votes, a population of about 1.8 million people.  Right now, with the electoral college, there is zero reason for Republicans or Democrats to pay attention to this state or the people in it.  Democrats have no shot to win the state, so why should they care about any of the people there?  Republicans have no competition there, so why should they care?

If you remove the electoral college, there is reason for both parties to pay attention, because they need to win as many votes as they can, and there is a reason for them to try and win those votes.  It would also be this way across the entire country - so Republicans would have incentive to get votes in New York and California (where right now they have none).

The Electoral College prevents us from being politically dominated by one or two gigantic states that that the rest of the country finds repugnant, and that of course is a disadvantage for those of you who fawn over that trendy ideology. But it also provides you people with the distinct advantage of starting every election on third base, with California and NY already in your back pocket. All you have to do is figure out a way not to be completely repulsive to the rest of the Nation, and you'd win every election in a landslide. Instead, you roll out a candidate so cringy that she loses to a guy who picked up politics as a hobby the year before, even though she had the sitting potus, the mediots, the entire entertainment industry, and silicon valley at her beck and call. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 05:46:50 PM
Even though I am very much in favor of the electoral college I have to admit you are correct about it does promote a two party system which in turn, I think is ineffective. 
If it meant we could do something different then a two party system then I would be in favor of eliminating the electoral college so for me it’s a little bit of a catch 22 because with a two party system there’s no way I could support illumination of the EC.


I don't think getting rid of the electoral college, by itself, changes the party system.  The party system develops because we have "all or nothing" voting.  The person who gets the most votes gets the position and the loser gets nothing.  Voters want their voices heard but they often have to choose between which party represents their position the best and also has a shot to win.  This is what makes the two party system extremely tough to crack.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 02, 2020, 05:48:08 PM
Instead, you roll out a candidate so cringy that she loses to a guy who picked up politics as a hobby the year before, even though she had the sitting potus, the mediots, the entire entertainment industry, and silicon valley at her beck and call.
And the FBI.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 05:54:32 PM
I find fault personally with how "we" choose nominees.  I have not liked any nominee in, well, quite some time now.  At all.

But that's another discussion probably best left in left field.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 05:55:11 PM
Surely you know better than this.
Oh I absolutely know it to be true.  It was the entire point.  Now, obviously they had their flaws - like whose votes count in a democracy.  But the idea of having votes then running it through some stupid algorithm to award an election to the second place getter would have been laughed right out the door.  Their idea of the electoral college involved people voting for electors, not the Frankenstein monster where we vote for a candidate that the electors then vote for.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 05:59:23 PM
The Electoral College prevents us from being politically dominated by one or two gigantic states that that the rest of the country finds repugnant, and that of course is a disadvantage for those of you who fawn over that trendy ideology. But it also provides you people with the distinct advantage of starting every election on third base, with California and NY already in your back pocket. All you have to do is figure out a way not to be completely repulsive to the rest of the Nation, and you'd win every election in a landslide. Instead, you roll out a candidate so cringy that she loses to a guy who picked up politics as a hobby the year before, even though she had the sitting potus, the mediots, the entire entertainment industry, and silicon valley at her beck and call.
The math on that doesn't check out.  Votes in Indiana count more without an electoral college, not less.

Also, you get lots of talk about how "divided" we are.  Of course we are divided - the votes of the vast bulk of the country are more or less irrelevant because of the electoral college.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 05:59:27 PM
The founders were scared to death of pure democracy, which is why they only allowed one office to be directly elected, the House.

It's a representative republic, not a democracy.

They did not trust the majority to do the right thing, obviously.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 06:00:40 PM
The founders were scared to death of pure democracy, which is why they only allowed one office to be directly elected, the House.

It's a representative republic, not a democracy.

They did not trust the majority to do the right thing, obviously. 
That's a difference of no consequence.  They wanted people to vote for representatives, with the person with the most votes being the representative.  That's democracy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 06:04:08 PM
Well, OK then,  I see we have an example of the product of our schooling system.

Somehow.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 02, 2020, 06:04:56 PM
The Electoral College prevents us from being politically dominated by one or two gigantic states that that the rest of the country finds repugnant, and that of course is a disadvantage for those of you who fawn over that trendy ideology. But it also provides you people with the distinct advantage of starting every election on third base, with California and NY already in your back pocket. All you have to do is figure out a way not to be completely repulsive to the rest of the Nation, and you'd win every election in a landslide. Instead, you roll out a candidate so cringy that she loses to a guy who picked up politics as a hobby the year before, even though she had the sitting potus, the mediots, the entire entertainment industry, and silicon valley at her beck and call.
Your best post!  Add Badges FBI part, and it’s perfect. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 06:05:54 PM
Well, OK then,  I see we have an example of the product of our schooling system.

Somehow.
LOL, well it helps to read.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 06:07:03 PM
The Founders COULD have set this all up quite simply,  Majority rules etc.  You vote straight out for your representative and that is the end of that.  But, they didn't.  Why not?

Because they feared the will of the majority suppressing the minority, so they installed very clear attempted safe guards to separate the people from government elected offices, with the one exception.

That is why this difference between a democracy and a republic is so important.  They may have been wrong, but their intent is abundantly clear, to find ways of protesting us from majority rule by the masses.

These were educated men, wealthy in many cases, they did not trust "the masses".
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 02, 2020, 06:10:20 PM
I don't think getting rid of the electoral college, by itself, changes the party system.  The party system develops because we have "all or nothing" voting.  The person who gets the most votes gets the position and the loser gets nothing.  Voters want their voices heard but they often have to choose between which party represents their position the best and also has a shot to win.  This is what makes the two party system extremely tough to crack. 
Agreed.   It’s looking line this will be the second election in a row where I find the 2 choices so repulsive I can’t, with clear conscience, pull the lever for either.  

you can shame me for that- and I won’t deny it. I am embarrassed to not vote again.  But I will get over my embarrassment eventually, whereas I may not for casting a vote.  

Is this really the best we can do? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 06:14:05 PM
To me, the act of voting is the opiate of the masses.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 02, 2020, 06:19:46 PM
I haven't liked a candidate since Bush 1.

Anyway.. the founders envisioned people serving the nation, and then returning to work. 

We do not have that right now. Not even close. We are all here to serve THEM.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 06:22:11 PM
The Founders COULD have set this all up quite simply,  Majority rules etc.  You vote straight out for your representative and that is the end of that.  But, they didn't.  Why not?

Because they feared the will of the majority suppressing the minority, so they installed very clear attempted safe guards to separate the people from government elected offices, with the one exception.

That is why this difference between a democracy and a republic is so important.  They may have been wrong, but their intent is abundantly clear, to find ways of protesting us from majority rule by the masses.

These were educated men, wealthy in many cases, they did not trust "the masses".
That's all fine but not really relevant to my point, which is that calling something a republic or democracy is not really meaningful.  A democracy is about the people choosing the government and a republic is about the leaders being chosen by the people.  They are not different.  Democrats and Republicans aren't arguing about whether we should have a democracy or a republic.  The Democratic-Republican party did argue for expanding the vote.  

In any event, whether you want to call it a democracy, a republic, or some sort of halfsy, efforts which expressly thwart the people from choosing their government are antidemocratic and cause a lot of division and lack of belief in the government.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 06:23:48 PM
I concluded many years ago that voting in this guy or that gal to office wouldn't change anything substantively.  He or she won't fix anything in reality.  They move some deck chairs around, one is as bad as the other, in my opinion.

I think "we" are deluded into thinking that if OUR guy wins the election, it will all be transformed into something really nice.

BS.

Maybe this time of year I'm a bit more negative than normal, dunno.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 06:26:25 PM
In any event, whether you want to call it a democracy, a republic, or some sort of halfsy, efforts which expressly thwart the people from choosing their government are antidemocratic and cause a lot of division and lack of belief in the government.
The issue here, quite clearly, is what the Founders intended.  And very clearly, it was not a democracy.  Otherwise, we would have something very different, perhaps just a House of Pres and a popularly elected President.  That would be a representative democracy, which we clearly do not have.

The reason WHY is important, and significant.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 06:29:52 PM
The issue here, quite clearly, is what the Founders intended.  And very clearly, it was not a democracy.  Otherwise, we would have something very different, perhaps just a House of Pres and a popularly elected President.  That would be a representative democracy, which we clearly do not have.

The reason WHY is important, and significant.
I mean they called them electors. Makes you think they believed in elections. Maybe not maybe they wanted a king but they fooled me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 06:31:33 PM
It's clearly NOT a democracy, but design, quite clearly.  It might be wrong, but it's not a democracy.

Words have meaning.

Let me know how your crusade to get rid of the EC is going.  I find most folks incensed about stuff like that really do nothing more than post umbrage on social media.

Yay.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 06:33:17 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/fKAa4G2.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 06:34:49 PM
It's clearly NOT a democracy, but design, quite clearly.  It might be wrong, but it's not a democracy.

Words have meaning.

Let me know how your crusade to get rid of the EC is going.  I find most folks incensed about stuff like that really do nothing more than post umbrage on social media.

Yay.
Part of the battle is people erroneously thinking the founders didn't want democracy in the first place
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 02, 2020, 06:43:13 PM
I concluded many years ago that voting in this guy or that gal to office wouldn't change anything substantively.  He or she won't fix anything in reality.  They move some deck chairs around, one is as bad as the other, in my opinion.

I think "we" are deluded into thinking that if OUR guy wins the election, it will all be transformed into something really nice.

BS.

Maybe this time of year I'm a bit more negative than normal, dunno.


Along these lines, I've started looking at elected officials being like baseball managers.  They're not going to do anything especially good to improve my life, but they can do things to mess it up.

The best baseball managers simply don't get in the way.  Poor managers tend to do a lot, but have a detrimental effect on outcomes.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 02, 2020, 06:47:19 PM
I don't see how anyone could advocate for "the masses" having more influence than less influence.  I'm all for the freedom and influence of a responsible, informed populace, but when did we have that?  Ever?  Access to information has increased infinitely since the founding of our country and I can't help but think a family in the middle of Montana was better informed with the pony express than the average person living in a big city today.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 02, 2020, 07:42:25 PM
Along these lines, I've started looking at elected officials being like baseball managers.  They're not going to do anything especially good to improve my life, but they can do things to mess it up.

The best baseball managers simply don't get in the way.  Poor managers tend to do a lot, but have a detrimental effect on outcomes. 
Well said.  I tend agree ( but well said regardless)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 02, 2020, 07:45:33 PM
I haven't liked a candidate since Bush 1.

Anyway.. the founders envisioned people serving the nation, and then returning to work.

We do not have that right now. Not even close. We are all here to serve THEM.
This.   So much.....this.  It is beyond frustrating.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 07:57:35 PM
I don't see how anyone could advocate for "the masses" having more influence than less influence.  I'm all for the freedom and influence of a responsible, informed populace, but when did we have that?  Ever?  Access to information has increased infinitely since the founding of our country and I can't help but think a family in the middle of Montana was better informed with the pony express than the average person living in a big city today.
Masses got it right in 2016
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 02, 2020, 09:09:34 PM
More democracy would be good. Get rid of the electoral college, make voting a priority, ensure the vote getters are the ones making decisions. It's difficult to have a ton of respect for a non-democratically elected government.
There was a great article in The Atlantic Monthly back in December: "Too Much Democracy is Bad for Democracy (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/12/too-much-democracy-is-bad-for-democracy/600766/)."  I recommend it highly.
It's about how the political parties have become too democratic and have thus surrendered to the highly energized in both parties to pick the nominees.  So Trump hijacked the GOP and Bernie almost hijacked the Democrats--who oddly are less democratic--in 2016.
I have these additional thoughts.
We weren't designed to be a mass democracy, and, historically, mass democracies have not worked out well.  They generally come to bad ends.
At its core, pure democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for dinner.
Abraham Lincoln would not have won a mass election. And he would not have survived a vote of confidence in 1862 under a democratic parliamentary system.
We were designed to be a republic, as Badge noted.
There are many non-democratic aspects to our constitutional system.  Like the Bill of Rights, rule of law, protection of minority rights, etc.
But apparently we can't keep it.  It requires a people who exercise civic virtue, of which we have little to speak of and mostly don't even know what it is anymore.
We want an Orange Calf or his equivalent in the other party who can get 50%+1 of the people who bother to vote.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 02, 2020, 09:11:39 PM
The 1880's?

I read a biography of Grant recently, holy cow.

The Old Days were perhaps not what we remember.  And the 1980s were not some gracious climate either except between Tip and Reagan.  And yes, the antipathy in public is worse now, egged on by both sides, and that lobby thing.
Social media and algorithms have played a big part in it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 02, 2020, 09:15:13 PM
It will only get worse unless WE do something about it.

A republic, if you can keep it, and all that.

As for the post office... it can go away. It's not needed anymore. UPS and FedEx are cheaper too. Private companies.
Delivering the mail is really a core responsibility of the federal government.  Provide for the common defense, protect the rule of law, protect the natural rights of the citizens, ensure that the states have a republican government, and deliver the mail.
There are a lot of non-constitutional responsibilities that the federal government has just assumed--because we all like stuff that somebody else is paying for--that I'd rather see eliminated first.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 02, 2020, 09:19:06 PM
Some people are results-oriented and others are process-oriented.  Being apathetic because the desired result isn't going to happen in your lifetime is results-oriented.  It may also be described as short-sighted or even selfish. 

Being optimistic of something happening down the road, and believing your actions will continue it (or even accelerate it a tiny bit) down the path is process-oriented.  It may also be described as sacrificial or an investment in our future. 

Reminds me of that ancient Greek proverb:  A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit."

Some people don't give a damn about a great society, just a comfortable life.
I like the proverb.
What particular policies does it inspire you to support or advocate?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 09:22:19 PM
There was a great article in The Atlantic Monthly back in December: "Too Much Democracy is Bad for Democracy (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/12/too-much-democracy-is-bad-for-democracy/600766/)."  I recommend it highly.
It's about how the political parties have become too democratic and have thus surrendered to the highly energized in both parties to pick the nominees.  So Trump hijacked the GOP and Bernie almost hijacked the Democrats--who oddly are less democratic--in 2016.
I have these additional thoughts.
We weren't designed to be a mass democracy, and, historically, mass democracies have not worked out well.  They generally come to bad ends.
At its core, pure democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for dinner.
Abraham Lincoln would not have won a mass election. And he would not have survived a vote of confidence in 1862 under a democratic parliamentary system.
We were designed to be a republic, as Badge noted.
There are many non-democratic aspects to our constitutional system.  Like the Bill of Rights, rule of law, protection of minority rights, etc.
But apparently we can't keep it.  It requires a people who exercise civic virtue, of which we have little to speak of and mostly don't even know what it is anymore.
We want an Orange Calf or his equivalent in the other party who can get 50%+1 of the people who bother to vote.
It is a good article, though it kind of misses the forest.  Primaries are just how political parties choose a nominee.  They are democratic to the extent that there is an election and the winner  is the nominee.  But because parties limit the options, you don't have a very diverse selection of candidates. Bernie wasn't popular because voters are wacky - Bernie was popular because a wide swathe of voters likes what he was selling.  But because our elections end up having to be a Republican v. a Democrat, instead of several strong candidates, we get two.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 02, 2020, 09:29:37 PM
Even though I am very much in favor of the electoral college I have to admit you are correct about it does promote a two party system which in turn, I think is ineffective. 
If it meant we could do something different then a two party system then I would be in favor of eliminating the electoral college so for me it’s a little bit of a catch 22 because with a two party system there’s no way I could support illumination of the EC.
Gerrymandering is a big problem.  It's never been a good thing, but now it's gotten so scientific that very few congressional districts are actually in play every two years.  My fix would be to require congressional districts to follow county lines.  Lots less room for mischief then.
State rules--not the EC--are I think the biggest obstacle to third parties.  The two parties have written the rules in all 50 states to make it very hard for third-party candidates to get on the ballots. I don't know what the fix for that is.
I read an advocacy for the EC several years ago.  It went like this:
Imagine the World Series.  We determine it by which team won the most games out of seven.  That's like the EC.  If we determined it by which team scored the most runs over seven games, that would be determining the presidential election by the popular vote.
And the example given was the 1960 World Series, in which the Pirate beat the Yankees despite being outscored 57-27.  Nobody advocated then or advocates now that the Yankees be given the championship because they scored more runs.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 02, 2020, 09:33:56 PM
Masses got it right in 2016
So say you.  And you have that right.  But why do you say things like this, after such intelligent conversation earlier.?  

there is no right answer- only opinions. And you can obviously find literally millions to both agree and disagree with you. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 02, 2020, 09:35:56 PM
There was a great article in The Atlantic Monthly back in December: "Too Much Democracy is Bad for Democracy (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/12/too-much-democracy-is-bad-for-democracy/600766/)."  I recommend it highly.
It's about how the political parties have become too democratic and have thus surrendered to the highly energized in both parties to pick the nominees.  So Trump hijacked the GOP and Bernie almost hijacked the Democrats--who oddly are less democratic--in 2016.
I have these additional thoughts.
We weren't designed to be a mass democracy, and, historically, mass democracies have not worked out well.  They generally come to bad ends.
At its core, pure democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for dinner.
Abraham Lincoln would not have won a mass election. And he would not have survived a vote of confidence in 1862 under a democratic parliamentary system.
We were designed to be a republic, as Badge noted.
There are many non-democratic aspects to our constitutional system.  Like the Bill of Rights, rule of law, protection of minority rights, etc.
But apparently we can't keep it.  It requires a people who exercise civic virtue, of which we have little to speak of and mostly don't even know what it is anymore.
We want an Orange Calf or his equivalent in the other party who can get 50%+1 of the people who bother to vote.
Solid post. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 02, 2020, 09:39:14 PM
I find it very disturbing that so many "kids" think we are a democracy. Makes me wonder what they are being taught in school by history revisionists.
Civics education is not good.  And hasn't been for a very long time.  It wasn't good in 1960 and is no better today.
But about history revisionism. . . .
It's going on now and it always has been going on.  Since the time of Herodotus, who has been called by some the father of history and by others the father of lies.
Because history is never settled.  And history is always written in light of what seems to be important at the point that it's written and who is writing it.  It's always more about us today and what we think than what those people in the past did.
That's why the historiography of the Civil War was pro-Confederate for a century after the war ended.  Northerners moved on to subjects like westward expansion, defeating the Plains Indians, expanding overseas trade, developing theories about the influence of sea power on history, etc.  Meanwhile, southerners, stewing over their loss, wrote and wrote and wrote and wrote to explain the causes of the war, the reasons for their loss, how it wasn't about slavery but rather states' rights, so that they could feel better about themselves.
Now, for the last half century, the "revisionists" have been correcting the record.  And the neo-Confederates have howled about revisionist history.
It's an art, not a science.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 09:41:01 PM
Gerrymandering is a big problem.  It's never been a good thing, but now it's gotten so scientific that very few congressional districts are actually in play every two years.  My fix would be to require congressional districts to follow county lines.  Lots less room for mischief then.
State rules--not the EC--are I think the biggest obstacle to third parties.  The two parties have written the rules in all 50 states to make it very hard for third-party candidates to get on the ballots. I don't know what the fix for that is.
I read an advocacy for the EC several years ago.  It went like this:
Imagine the World Series.  We determine it by which team won the most games out of seven.  That's like the EC.  If we determined it by which team scored the most runs over seven games, that would be determining the presidential election by the popular vote.
And the example given was the 1960 World Series, in which the Pirate beat the Yankees despite being outscored 57-27.  Nobody advocated then or advocates now that the Yankees be given the championship because they scored more runs.
I think a closer comparison would be of you made points in the second quarter of a game count double. Is it entertaining? Sure. Does it make any sense? Absolutely not.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 02, 2020, 09:45:24 PM
That's a difference of no consequence.  They wanted people to vote for representatives, with the person with the most votes being the representative.  That's democracy.
But they had the senators elected by the state legislatures, so that's not democracy.
And they had the president elected by wise, competent, civic-minded electors, and that's not democracy.
And they had the Supreme Court justices appointed by the non-democratically elected president and confirmed by the non-democratically elected senators.
And, in the first Congress, they added ten amendments that we call the Bill of Rights and are mostly denials of or restrictions on majority rule.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 09:48:27 PM
But they had the senators elected by the state legislatures, so that's not democracy.
And they had the president elected by wise, competent, civic-minded electors, and that's not democracy.
And they had the Supreme Court justices appointed by the non-democratically elected president and confirmed by the non-democratically elected senators.
And, in the first Congress, they added ten amendments that we call the Bill of Rights and are mostly denials of or restrictions on majority rule.

All involved elections, and in none of the elections did they designate for the second or third place vote getter to get the job.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 02, 2020, 09:51:00 PM
I like the proverb.
What particular policies does it inspire you to support or advocate?
It was in response to cincy's woe-is-me, things will never change attitude.

You could apply it to anything where the end result is in the distant future.  Going to Mars, building the pyramids at Giza, etc....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 02, 2020, 09:52:34 PM
the question is again unanswered



What particular policies does it inspire you to support or advocate?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 02, 2020, 09:53:28 PM
Masses got it right in 2016
That's a nice talking point for the Democrats, but we don't know how the vote would have turned out had the goal been to win the popular vote.  Both candidates would have campaigned differently.
And I'd say the same thing had the PV and EV winners been switched.  I "wasted" my vote by voting for a 3rd-party candidate.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 02, 2020, 09:54:36 PM
I don't see how anyone could advocate for "the masses" having more influence than less influence.  I'm all for the freedom and influence of a responsible, informed populace, but when did we have that?  Ever?  Access to information has increased infinitely since the founding of our country and I can't help but think a family in the middle of Montana was better informed with the pony express than the average person living in a big city today.
Yep.
You should see HS history and civics exams from ca. 1900.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 02, 2020, 09:56:42 PM
That's a nice talking point for the Democrats, but we don't know how the vote would have turned out had the goal been to win the popular vote.  Both candidates would have campaigned differently.
And I'd say the same thing had the PV and EV winners been switched.  I "wasted" my vote by voting for a 3rd-party candidate.
As did I. What the hell did it matter in Illinois? The HillBill carried 80% of the vote.

My vote in Florida will matter. I wish all the New York douchebags would move back to where they came from. They are going to F up that state, like they F'd up their own.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 02, 2020, 09:57:37 PM
Yep.
You should see HS history and civics exams from ca. 1900.
I'd like to see them, if you are so inclined to share. I'd like to compare them with what I was taught in the 1970's.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 02, 2020, 09:58:13 PM
As did I. What the hell did it matter in Illinois? The HillBill carried 80% of the vote.

My vote in Florida will matter. I wish all the New York douchebags would move back to where they came from. They are going to F up that state, like they F'd up their own.
Amen.   
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 02, 2020, 10:01:37 PM
That's a nice talking point for the Democrats, but we don't know how the vote would have turned out had the goal been to win the popular vote.  Both candidates would have campaigned differently.
And I'd say the same thing had the PV and EV winners been switched.  I "wasted" my vote by voting for a 3rd-party candidate.
we also don't know what the democratic candidate would have done or not done in the past 4 years

hindsight is not 20-20
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 02, 2020, 10:02:45 PM
As did I. What the hell did it matter in Illinois? The HillBill carried 80% of the vote.

My vote in Florida will matter. I wish all the New York douchebags would move back to where they came from. They are going to F up that state, like they F'd up their own.
the new york and new jersey bags have been there for decades, they're more worried about the latest influx from Chicago
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 02, 2020, 10:04:15 PM
It is a good article, though it kind of misses the forest.  Primaries are just how political parties choose a nominee.  They are democratic to the extent that there is an election and the winner  is the nominee.  But because parties limit the options, you don't have a very diverse selection of candidates. Bernie wasn't popular because voters are wacky - Bernie was popular because a wide swathe of voters likes what he was selling.  But because our elections end up having to be a Republican v. a Democrat, instead of several strong candidates, we get two.
Well, the article might have missed the forest, but you may have missed the trees.
The point is that the parties have lost their ability to pick reasonable, electable candidates for whom the parties can reasonably be held responsible.  The bad old days of smoke-filled rooms and handshakes and deals may have been a better system than letting the most angry and energized fragment of the party membership pick the candidates.
In general, I think we should be very modest when we talk about making big changes in a very complex system that has more or less served us well for 230+ years.  We should understand very thoroughly why something was designed the way it was before we start thinking about eliminating it or radically changing it.
I think the 17th Amendment changing the election of U.S. Senators is an example of failing to be careful.  It fundamentally changed the relationship between the House and the Senate and between the states and the federal government.  And not for the best, IMO.
Was it intended to do that?  I don't know for sure, but those Progressives were pretty clever, and they wanted more federal power at the expense of the states, so I know how I would bet if my life depended on it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 02, 2020, 10:11:47 PM
It was in response to cincy's woe-is-me, things will never change attitude.

You could apply it to anything where the end result is in the distant future.  Going to Mars, building the pyramids at Giza, etc....
I'm not trying to play "Gotcha!"
But often when I hear someone advocating that "we" "invest in the future" what they mean is that I get to pay for something for the goals that those people think are important.
So, to get back to the Greek proverb (which I like, although I'd like to know where it came from), how "we" seem to interpret it is that I don't plant any trees myself, I "get" to pay for other people to plant the trees, only actually they just talk about planting trees and instead what they actually do is produce an expensive study of how planting trees would be a great thing, before demanding that my children and grandchildren pay for it.  And, oh, the trees aren't going to be planted in my neck of the woods anyway, they're going to be planted somewhere that doesn't benefit me in the least.
I like trees, by the way.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 02, 2020, 10:13:32 PM
All involved elections, and in none of the elections did they designate for the second or third place vote getter to get the job.
But only the elections for the House were democratic.
By your standard--that SCOTUS justices are chosen democratically--then the EC is the epitome of democracy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 02, 2020, 10:19:31 PM
the new york and new jersey bags have been there for decades, they're more worried about the latest influx from Chicago
The people coming from the Midwest carry their habits with them too, for sure, but the people coming from the Midwest are fleeing failure and trying to make their lives better, and make their votes matter. The more people we can get in Florida from Illinois, the better. Those people aren't the ones who want free shit for everyone.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 02, 2020, 10:26:14 PM
I'd like to see them, if you are so inclined to share. I'd like to compare them with what I was taught in the 1970's.
Here it is--an 8th-grade exam that is more than history and civics (sorry!)--on Snopes, which rates it "mixed" because Snopes questions whether the info demonstrates what people claim that it demonstrates.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/1895-exam/ (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/1895-exam/)

Still, I don't think many 8th-graders today would do well on an updated version of this one.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 02, 2020, 10:46:53 PM
Here it is--an 8th-grade exam that is more than history and civics (sorry!)--on Snopes, which rates it "mixed" because Snopes questions whether the info demonstrates what people claim that it demonstrates.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/1895-exam/ (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/1895-exam/)

Still, I don't think many 8th-graders today would do well on an updated version of this one.
Wow.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 03, 2020, 07:31:26 AM
Definitely not like today.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 03, 2020, 08:08:08 AM
Still, I don't think many 8th-graders today would do well on an updated version of this one.
truth be told I'm not sure a lot of us would do so hot either
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 03, 2020, 08:11:08 AM
the question is again unanswered



What particular policies does it inspire you to support or advocate?
Thanx so it's just not me
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 03, 2020, 08:37:55 AM
Well, the article might have missed the forest, but you may have missed the trees.
The point is that the parties have lost their ability to pick reasonable, electable candidates for whom the parties can reasonably be held responsible.  The bad old days of smoke-filled rooms and handshakes and deals may have been a better system than letting the most angry and energized fragment of the party membership pick the candidates.
In general, I think we should be very modest when we talk about making big changes in a very complex system that has more or less served us well for 230+ years.  We should understand very thoroughly why something was designed the way it was before we start thinking about eliminating it or radically changing it.
I think the 17th Amendment changing the election of U.S. Senators is an example of failing to be careful.  It fundamentally changed the relationship between the House and the Senate and between the states and the federal government.  And not for the best, IMO.
Was it intended to do that?  I don't know for sure, but those Progressives were pretty clever, and they wanted more federal power at the expense of the states, so I know how I would bet if my life depended on it.
I could not agree more.

I still believe the 17th amendment to be the worst thing legislatively ever done in this country. For years, I have advocated repealing the 17th amendment. Unfortunately, our educational system in this country is brainwashing our youth to the point where they don't even understand the basics of the founding of this great nation.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 03, 2020, 08:45:07 AM
Well, the article might have missed the forest, but you may have missed the trees.
The point is that the parties have lost their ability to pick reasonable, electable candidates for whom the parties can reasonably be held responsible.  The bad old days of smoke-filled rooms and handshakes and deals may have been a better system than letting the most angry and energized fragment of the party membership pick the candidates.
In general, I think we should be very modest when we talk about making big changes in a very complex system that has more or less served us well for 230+ years.  We should understand very thoroughly why something was designed the way it was before we start thinking about eliminating it or radically changing it.
I think the 17th Amendment changing the election of U.S. Senators is an example of failing to be careful.  It fundamentally changed the relationship between the House and the Senate and between the states and the federal government.  And not for the best, IMO.
Was it intended to do that?  I don't know for sure, but those Progressives were pretty clever, and they wanted more federal power at the expense of the states, so I know how I would bet if my life depended on it.
I mean, yes, there is no question that the representative government has given way to more people voting directly. It's also irrelevant to my point, which is that our current system is undemocratic because it ensures largess swathes of the population are irrelevant, and makes large swathes of the population have votes that count more than others. If we implemented a system where, say, a black persons vote counts double, I imagine a lot of you would be apoplectic. But that's the system were have now, except substitute voters in random close states for black people.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on August 03, 2020, 08:53:34 AM
we also don't know what the democratic candidate would have done or not done in the past 4 years

hindsight is not 20-20
We do know that Hillary would be facing large GOP majorities in both houses of Congress that wouldn't even discuss any of her nominees, effectively hamstringing her administration before she even raised her right hand.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2020, 08:55:30 AM
all votes matter

if the presidential election was to swing on those 2 electoral votes from Montana - they would hotly contested

or those 180,000 popular votes from Montana

swing states are always the key 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2020, 08:56:58 AM
We do know that Hillary would be facing large GOP majorities in both houses of Congress that wouldn't even discuss any of her nominees, effectively hamstringing her administration before she even raised her right hand.
and we have little knowledge of how a crazy lady might handle this
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 03, 2020, 08:58:30 AM
all votes matter

if the presidential election was to swing on those 2 electoral votes from Montana - they would hotly contested

or those 180,000 popular votes from Montana

swing states are always the key
All votes are equal but some votes are more equal than others
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 03, 2020, 09:00:55 AM
Here it is--an 8th-grade exam that is more than history and civics (sorry!)--on Snopes, which rates it "mixed" because Snopes questions whether the info demonstrates what people claim that it demonstrates.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/1895-exam/ (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/1895-exam/)

Still, I don't think many 8th-graders today would do well on an updated version of this one.
That throws up all sorts of skepticism for me. 

Perhaps that was someone's 8th-grade exam, but I just doubt it was used on a mass scale. (Or maybe it was used to limit who actually attended HS)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 03, 2020, 09:01:57 AM
I could not agree more.

I still believe the 17th amendment to be the worst thing legislatively ever done in this country. For years, I have advocated repealing the 17th amendment. Unfortunately, our educational system in this country is brainwashing our youth to the point where they don't even understand the basics of the founding of this great nation.
The appeal of repealing the 17th amendment is making state's units more powerful/influential?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 03, 2020, 09:02:12 AM
We do know that Hillary would be facing large GOP majorities in both houses of Congress that wouldn't even discuss any of her nominees, effectively hamstringing her administration before she even raised her right hand.
At least they wouldn't have promised to impeach her upon election. Shouldn't have mattered though, as she should be wearing an orange suit.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 03, 2020, 09:03:45 AM
Maybe the competent person wouldn't do a better job than the incompetent one. How could we ever know really?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 03, 2020, 09:07:07 AM
The push for a popular vote is a move by the left to ensure that there is never another president from the right. It's a move that would give the power of elections to Chicago, New York, LA, Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, Milwaukee, Philly, etc.

Those cities are disaster areas in almost all areas of concern.

I do not want THAT choosing my president, thank you.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 03, 2020, 09:07:57 AM
The push for a popular vote is a move by the left to ensure that there is never another president from the right. It's a move that would give the power of elections to Chicago, New York, LA, Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, Milwaukee, Philly, etc.

Those cities are disaster areas in almost all areas of concern.

I do not want THAT choosing my president, thank you.
My votes should count double because no one wants to live near me
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 03, 2020, 09:08:45 AM
Maybe the competent person wouldn't do a better job than the incompetent one. How could we ever know really?
WE could make assumptions, based on performance in prior positions, such as secretary of state. We could start there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 03, 2020, 09:09:15 AM
My votes should count double because no one wants to live near me
I'd be happy to be your neighbor.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 03, 2020, 09:18:35 AM
The people coming from the Midwest carry their habits with them too, for sure, but the people coming from the Midwest are fleeing failure and trying to make their lives better, and make their votes matter. The more people we can get in Florida from Illinois, the better. Those people aren't the ones who want free shit for everyone.
This seems like kind of a narrow bridge to walk. 

The sentiment is basically, we need to import people from a non-competitive state to a competitive state, but primarily people in the minority of that non-competitive state. But by the same token, California could lose some of its majority and create some changes in other places as well.

In the end, the idea of this migration pattern is kinda of just hoping for people to naturally gerrymander themselves in the favor of one party one might prefer. It's maybe an interesting thought exercise, but probably more fantasy than anything else. 

It's also funny because at times people get very cross about the idea of others migrating to our state, but less issue when it comes to our own mobility. New Yorkers have been filling Florida for generations, but as the interloper, you feel sudden ownership of the place and hope they suddenly stop? 

In any case, it does point to a quirk of the electoral college. It redistributes importance based on sort of broad social trends. In some places, votes feel like they count, in others they don't. Shoot, even states themselves are massively arbitrary. San Francisco is tied to Redding. Fairfield is tied to Chicago. Miami is tied to the panhandle. And of course a Californian can become  Wisconsinite and a lifelong Illinois resident could be come a Floridian (or Texan or Arizonan or North Carolinian). 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 03, 2020, 09:23:13 AM
The push for a popular vote is a move by the left to ensure that there is never another president from the right. It's a move that would give the power of elections to Chicago, New York, LA, Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, Milwaukee, Philly, etc.

Those cities are disaster areas in almost all areas of concern.

I do not want THAT choosing my president, thank you.
/Raises hand

This argument reads that in an election of one person, one vote, the left would always beat the right. That seems like a particularly troubling indictment of the right. 

I tend to disagree with that idea. I think certain parts of parities would shift, as would approaches. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2020, 09:25:53 AM
Presidential elections are generally close.  How would we do a recount if one was needed nationally?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 03, 2020, 09:26:20 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/wHk8TUy.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 03, 2020, 09:31:35 AM
I'd be happy to be your neighbor.
Thanks buddy
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 03, 2020, 09:33:45 AM
Thanks buddy
Could you imagine how fat we would get with all of the cooking contests we'd do?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2020, 09:35:32 AM
The wife says French politics is even worse.  From what I have seen, tend to agree.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 03, 2020, 09:35:35 AM
/Raises hand

This argument reads that in an election of one person, one vote, the left would always beat the right. That seems like a particularly troubling indictment of the right.

I tend to disagree with that idea. I think certain parts of parities would shift, as would approaches.
Not to me. To me, it's a troubling indictment of where this country seems to be headed.

A republic, if you can keep it. 

To me, this is in grave danger.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2020, 09:37:11 AM
If magically the EC disappeared, candidates would shift in positions, a lot, and be more city centric.

But it won't disappear.  Been hearing this complaint twenty years, and not even a small step has happened.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on August 03, 2020, 09:42:22 AM
All votes are equal but some votes are more equal than others
A democratic vote in Nebraska doesn't mean much outside the overall vote count.  A republican vote in California means about the same..
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2020, 09:43:52 AM
Maybe the competent person wouldn't do a better job than the incompetent one. How could we ever know really?
I'm happy enough never knowing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on August 03, 2020, 09:45:32 AM
If magically the EC disappeared, candidates would shift in positions, a lot, and be more city centric.

But it won't disappear.  Been hearing this complaint twenty years, and not even a small step has happened.
I would like to see votes move from winning a state = 100% of the EC votes to %'s...   Candidates spend time in Ohio for a reason... they don't spend that much time in WV.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2020, 09:46:20 AM
or Nebraska
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 03, 2020, 09:53:20 AM
Not to me. To me, it's a troubling indictment of where this country seems to be headed.

A republic, if you can keep it.

To me, this is in grave danger.
Perhaps. But that's democracy. You need platforms that can take a majority. And if structural quirks are the primary things keeping one side afloat, it's a dangerous spot. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 03, 2020, 09:56:19 AM
If magically the EC disappeared, candidates would shift in positions, a lot, and be more city centric.

But it won't disappear.  Been hearing this complaint twenty years, and not even a small step has happened.
Nope. It won't. You'd need too many states in agreement. And thus, we'll continue our Florida/Ohio/Pennsylvania-centric approach (with some upper midwest thrown in these days). 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2020, 10:05:54 AM
You're just negative.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 03, 2020, 10:08:36 AM
You're just negative.
I have a friend who advocates court-packing, as if this is a solution that is either possible or at all going to benefit his side. Such pie in the sky.

(I tested negative once. Might need to take it again)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 03, 2020, 10:09:12 AM
Perhaps. But that's democracy. You need platforms that can take a majority. And if structural quirks are the primary things keeping one side afloat, it's a dangerous spot.
But, we are not that. That was not the intention. It's too dangerous.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 03, 2020, 10:12:59 AM
It's also funny because at times people get very cross about the idea of others migrating to our state, but less issue when it comes to our own mobility. New Yorkers have been filling Florida for generations, but as the interloper, you feel sudden ownership of the place and hope they suddenly stop?  
What has changed with the NY people is now they are staying for their 6 months + 1 day to avoid NY taxation. In the past, they'd go down for 3-4 months, travel some others, and remain NY residents.

They are fleeing high taxes, just like me. The difference is many of them will still vote the same way - and vote themselves into paying state taxes. It's ironic.

It's happening in Arizona too, with the CA crowd coming in.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 03, 2020, 10:22:07 AM
I think it's dangerous to make people's vote count less to be more "fair" to other voters.  That's the point of democracy (and republics) to give power to the people, not to give power to some people if they have the "correct views.  The "right" v. "left" dichotomy is so silly anyway, and imaginary in all but the voting both where we have no choice.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 03, 2020, 10:22:24 AM
But, we are not that. That was not the intention. It's too dangerous.
Perhaps. 

But even in a republic, if one needs to rely on geographical quirks, it's a precarious and perhaps problematic spot. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 03, 2020, 10:26:09 AM
What has changed with the NY people is now they are staying for their 6 months + 1 day to avoid NY taxation. In the past, they'd go down for 3-4 months, travel some others, and remain NY residents.

They are fleeing high taxes, just like me. The difference is many of them will still vote the same way - and vote themselves into paying state taxes. It's ironic.

It's happening in Arizona too, with the CA crowd coming in.
Yep. Them's the breaks. 

Anyway, people will redistribute based on broad social trends. It makes sense to hope that benefits one's particular side, but at that point, it's mostly hope. And when things start to shift, folks in power will grip tightly to what they have, as Florida showed us not too long ago. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 03, 2020, 10:37:44 AM
Presidential elections are generally close.  How would we do a recount if one was needed nationally?
I would think the same way we do them now.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 03, 2020, 10:40:04 AM
Hanging chads? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on August 03, 2020, 10:47:19 AM
We do not want a true democracy.    A true democracy voted taco bell as the best mexican restaurant in the US.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2020, 10:47:58 AM
A nationwide recount.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2020, 11:00:11 AM
the USA really should be better at counting votes
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 03, 2020, 11:03:58 AM
What has changed with the NY people is now they are staying for their 6 months + 1 day to avoid NY taxation. In the past, they'd go down for 3-4 months, travel some others, and remain NY residents.

They are fleeing high taxes, just like me. The difference is many of them will still vote the same way - and vote themselves into paying state taxes. It's ironic.

It's happening in Arizona too, with the CA crowd coming in.
100% correct.  And most of them openly say this. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 03, 2020, 11:05:54 AM
Yep. Them's the breaks.

Anyway, people will redistribute based on broad social trends. It makes sense to hope that benefits one's particular side, but at that point, it's mostly hope. And when things start to shift, folks in power will grip tightly to what they have, as Florida showed us not too long ago.
How so on the Florida comment?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 03, 2020, 11:08:26 AM
Not sure, maybe the poll tax they implemented there
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 03, 2020, 11:09:31 AM
Not sure, maybe the poll tax they implemented there
What?  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 03, 2020, 11:20:29 AM
What? 
Florida people voted quite clearly to lift the lifetime ban on felons voting.  In response, the Florida legislature implemented a scheme where felons couldn't vote if they owed money
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2020, 11:25:49 AM
it's all about the money
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 03, 2020, 11:31:59 AM
I mean, yes, there is no question that the representative government has given way to more people voting directly. It's also irrelevant to my point, which is that our current system is undemocratic because it ensures largess swathes of the population are irrelevant, and makes large swathes of the population have votes that count more than others. If we implemented a system where, say, a black persons vote counts double, I imagine a lot of you would be apoplectic. But that's the system were have now, except substitute voters in random close states for black people.
I think I get your point, but I think that that phenomenon is to some degree inevitable in any decentralized system.  And we could probably see similar phenomena in elections for city council in a good-sized city.  There might be 10 council districts with 7 or 8 of them heavily weighted one way or another.  So it's the 2 or 3 swing districts that will determine which side is going to control the council.
The other way of doing it would be to have everyone in the city vote for all 10 spots on the council, which would perhaps be more democratic, but could well leave some parts of the city not represented at all.
A lot of cities, mine included, had to change their form of government in the '70 and '80s because their old way of running the city resulted in no blacks or other minorities ever getting elected.  There was not a city council, but a city commission. And the commission was made up of the various commissioners--police commissioner, fire commissioner, streets and roads commissioner, etc.  All those positions were filled by city-wide elections, and they were always white, nearly always white men.  But--I would argue--they were elected more democratically than the way we do it now.
"Most democratically" doesn't necessarily mean "best way of doing it."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 03, 2020, 11:34:53 AM
Along these lines, I've started looking at elected officials being like baseball managers.  They're not going to do anything especially good to improve my life, but they can do things to mess it up.

The best baseball managers simply don't get in the way.  Poor managers tend to do a lot, but have a detrimental effect on outcomes. 
I agree and disagree.

We expressly elect Congress to be the "legislative" branch. They're the ones who are actually supposed to do something--write the laws which help the nation go. 

The President is the executive branch. He's supposed to execute what the legislature has enacted. As such, he's kinda in that boat--the President actually doesn't have a whole lot of power to "do good", but he has a tremendous amount of power to F things up. 

Even when a President is trying to set an agenda, much of what actually happens comes from Congress.

It's why for me, the mark of a "good" President is more defined by lack of bad things than by tallying up good things.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 03, 2020, 11:35:24 AM
I could not agree more.

I still believe the 17th amendment to be the worst thing legislatively ever done in this country. For years, I have advocated repealing the 17th amendment. Unfortunately, our educational system in this country is brainwashing our youth to the point where they don't even understand the basics of the founding of this great nation.
I tell my students every year that if I could wave a magic wand and change one thing about the Constitution it would be to repeal the 17th Amendment.  I'm pretty critical of the 16th Amendment too, but the 17th is much worse, IMO.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 03, 2020, 11:38:53 AM
We do know that Hillary would be facing large GOP majorities in both houses of Congress that wouldn't even discuss any of her nominees, effectively hamstringing her administration before she even raised her right hand.
Why do you say that?
I don't think that we know that a President Hillary Clinton would be facing large GOP majorities in Congress today.  President Donald Trump lost his House majority in the 2018 mid-terms and figures to lose his Senate majority this round whether he is re-elected or not.
That the GOP members of Congress would be largely hostile to her agenda I do not dispute.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 03, 2020, 11:48:21 AM
The appeal of repealing the 17th amendment is making state's units more powerful/influential?
The evils of the 17th Amendment are two.
1.  It removed the state governments' input into federal policy-making.
2.  It made the Senate much more like the House--representing much the same interests--so the "cooling saucer" effect became much less so.
So, yes, repealing it would return some power to the states.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 03, 2020, 11:48:59 AM
Tried to watch my Houston Rockets play last night and was completely turned off by the kneeling during the National Anthem, a very large Black Lives Matter sign on the floor inside the playing area and countless BLM commercials running during the game.

I turned it off near the end of the 2nd quarter and will not watch another game until this crap goes away

I am not racist but when I watch a sporting event I dont want to see any of this
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 03, 2020, 11:51:44 AM
Presidential elections are generally close.  How would we do a recount if one was needed nationally?
The greater ease of stealing a national election under a popular vote is one side-argument I have seen in favor of retaining the EC.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 03, 2020, 11:59:47 AM
I would like to see votes move from winning a state = 100% of the EC votes to %'s...  Candidates spend time in Ohio for a reason... they don't spend that much time in WV.
That's a reform that states are free to implement.  It would change things, but maybe not for the worse.
What would be worse, IMO, and is a blatant attempt to get around the Constitution, is the "national popular vote" movement, wherein states pledge that they will give their electoral votes to the candidate who wins the national popular vote.
That completely disempowers the states.  Might as well go to a unitary republic if we do that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 03, 2020, 12:02:56 PM
Florida people voted quite clearly to lift the lifetime ban on felons voting.  In response, the Florida legislature implemented a scheme where felons couldn't vote if they owed money
I don't see that as unfair.

If I don't meet my financial obligations to the state of Illinois, they will remove my right to practice professionally by taking my licenses. Everything has consequences, as it should.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 03, 2020, 12:04:17 PM
Oh- your referring to the convicted felons who owe court fees, fines etc, not being allowed to vote.  

Yeah- mixed feelings on that but that is another debate altogether 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2020, 12:06:12 PM
Poll tax, heh.  I stayed too long around lawyers I reckon and like to use precise language when possible.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 03, 2020, 12:10:57 PM
I think it's dangerous to make people's vote count less to be more "fair" to other voters.  That's the point of democracy (and republics) to give power to the people, not to give power to some people if they have the "correct views.  The "right" v. "left" dichotomy is so silly anyway, and imaginary in all but the voting both where we have no choice.
I disagree with this.
The point of a republic is not necessarily to give power to the people.  You could choose representatives by any number of non-democratic ways and it would not contradict the principle of a republic.
How about having U.S. Representatives buy their seats?  The seat goes to the highest bidder?  Not democratic, but not in contradiction to republican principles?
How about choosing U.S. Representatives by random-SSAN-generation?
How about having voters pay to vote, and thereby fund the government?
We were designed to be a federal republic.  Not a unitary republic like France nor a confederation like Switzerland.
A federal republic with some democratic principles built in (like direct election of U.S. Representatives, and since the 17th Amendment U.S. Senators) but anti-democratic ones also built in.
Protection of minority rights, for example, is anti-democratic.  So is due process.  In a pure democracy, we would decide these things with plebiscites, as dictatorships pretending to be democracies often do.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on August 03, 2020, 12:14:46 PM
This is wrong. For one, Wyoming doesn't exist as it is, because it has minimal electoral votes and almost always votes Republican. There is no reason for either candidate to campaign there. Getting rid of the electoral college means there is a reason to campaign there, and pay attention to what the voters want.

For two, states already have senators, which represent a state's interests.
Senators haven't represented states interest since we went to popular elections for Senators. When they were elected by the state legislators they were much more responsive to the state. 

Sorry, but the election will be dominated by New York and California if we get rid of the electoral college, I don't live in either state for a variety of reason, but particularly for the politics that dominate both states.  LONG LIVE THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 03, 2020, 12:16:06 PM
If magically the EC disappeared, candidates would shift in positions, a lot, and be more city centric.

But it won't disappear.  Been hearing this complaint twenty years, and not even a small step has happened.
There's much more than a small step.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact
 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact)
This is an compact where, when enough states sign on to be >50% of the electoral college, all those states would automatically award their electors to the winner of the national popular vote, rather than to the candidate which carried their own state.

It requires no change to the Constitution, as the Constitution allows states to determine how they choose their electors--and it was bolstered by a Supreme Court ruling a few weeks ago about states having the power to remove "faithless electors" that don't follow their states' guidance in the electoral college. Thereby strengthening the idea that states can choose to appoint their electors how they see fit, not as a winner-take-all based on only the results in their own state.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 03, 2020, 12:16:15 PM
I agree and disagree.

We expressly elect Congress to be the "legislative" branch. They're the ones who are actually supposed to do something--write the laws which help the nation go.

The President is the executive branch. He's supposed to execute what the legislature has enacted. As such, he's kinda in that boat--the President actually doesn't have a whole lot of power to "do good", but he has a tremendous amount of power to F things up.

Even when a President is trying to set an agenda, much of what actually happens comes from Congress.

It's why for me, the mark of a "good" President is more defined by lack of bad things than by tallying up good things.
Like my man Calvin Coolidge!  The great refrainer.
He stated that it was much more important to stop bad legislation than to pass good legislation.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2020, 12:16:32 PM
Oh- your referring to the convicted felons who owe court fees, fines etc, not being allowed to vote. 

Yeah- mixed feelings on that but that is another debate altogether
true, why is it that only convicted felons have to be paid up to vote?  Why not all voters?

outstanding parking tickets?  sorry, your vote doesn't count
Owe property tax on your house?  sorry
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on August 03, 2020, 12:20:48 PM
Agreed.  It’s looking line this will be the second election in a row where I find the 2 choices so repulsive I can’t, with clear conscience, pull the lever for either. 

you can shame me for that- and I won’t deny it. I am embarrassed to not vote again.  But I will get over my embarrassment eventually, whereas I may not for casting a vote. 

Is this really the best we can do?
Since 1980, I have voted for a third party candidate for President, Yes I am throwing away my vote, but I vote my conscience and accept the consequences. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on August 03, 2020, 12:23:50 PM
Part of the battle is people erroneously thinking the founders didn't want democracy in the first place
Read their writings, there is no doubt they wanted a representative republic and not a democracy. They were concerned, and I still am, with the tyranny of the masses. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on August 03, 2020, 12:24:50 PM
Masses got it right in 2016
a significant number would disagree with you.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on August 03, 2020, 12:28:03 PM
As did I. What the hell did it matter in Illinois? The HillBill carried 80% of the vote.

My vote in Florida will matter. I wish all the New York douchebags would move back to where they came from. They are going to F up that state, like they F'd up their own.
Many of us in Arizona feel the same way about the Californians moving here. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on August 03, 2020, 12:29:54 PM
I could not agree more.

I still believe the 17th amendment to be the worst thing legislatively ever done in this country. For years, I have advocated repealing the 17th amendment. Unfortunately, our educational system in this country is brainwashing our youth to the point where they don't even understand the basics of the founding of this great nation.
I agree, it was one of the significant turning points in the ability of the States to influence the federal government. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 03, 2020, 12:35:29 PM
true, why is it that only convicted felons have to be paid up to vote?  Why not all voters?

outstanding parking tickets?  sorry, your vote doesn't count
Owe property tax on your house?  sorry
All legitimate questions. I did not write this law but I certainly understand the thought process behind it.

There are many people including myself who believe it when you commit a felony you give up your rights or at least some of them for some period of time because generally you have taken someone else’s rights away from them when you commit the felony.

It boggles my mind that this is even a debate in this country but it is. There are a lot of people who do not see crime or Felonise as any kind of problem at all that people should be held accountable for or punished for.

If someone has judgment bad enough to commit a felony do we really care about their vote?  I certainly do not
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on August 03, 2020, 12:42:10 PM
Why do you say that?
I don't think that we know that a President Hillary Clinton would be facing large GOP majorities in Congress today.  President Donald Trump lost his House majority in the 2018 mid-terms and figures to lose his Senate majority this round whether he is re-elected or not.
That the GOP members of Congress would be largely hostile to her agenda I do not dispute.
Merrick Garland.

If Mitch McConnell doesn't want him occupying that seat, for whatever reason, then hold hearings and vote no. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 03, 2020, 12:47:09 PM
Poll tax, heh.  I stayed too long around lawyers I reckon and like to use precise language when possible.
The proper definition is a tax per person to raise money. Though in context with the history of the United States, a poll tax was a scheme to prevent black people from voting. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 03, 2020, 12:47:29 PM
I think a lot of that "ire" is over blown. I don't believe much of anything, anymore. Kinda sad.
Add here it is...


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1290282508303716352 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1290282508303716352)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 03, 2020, 12:53:56 PM
Add here it is...


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1290282508303716352 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1290282508303716352)
He should not tweet.  Sinks himself to Nazi Pelosi’s level- which is the lowest of all bars. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2020, 12:57:03 PM
apparently he has no handlers
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2020, 01:00:13 PM
All legitimate questions. I did not write this law but I certainly understand the thought process behind it.

thought process?

Dems want more people voting - let the felons vote, bolsters their side
Repubs don't like it - pass law to take many of those votes away

it's just one more example of the two sides arguing over crap that doesn't matter and won't change anything in a good way for the people
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 03, 2020, 01:04:15 PM
The Framers of the Constitution had few historical examples of successful governments that were not monarchies.  They had the extremely short-lived direct democracy of ancient Athens (which wasn't very democratic, because only a small minority of the adult population could vote), the sad example of the Roman Republic (which was a very mixed system that makes ours look simple and easily comprehensible by comparison) that morphed into an autocracy in fact if not in theory, the rather short-lived Venetian Republic (which was even less democratic than the ancient Athenian democracy), and Switzerland, which is a republic in the form of a confederation.  Oh, then there was the short-lived "Commonwealth"-republic of England under the dictatorship of Oliver Cromwell.

And their whole point in gaining independence was to fight against tyrannical government.  They didn't want to trade royal tyranny for home-grown tyranny.  They had tried the very decentralized Articles of Confederation, which proved not to work very well.  They needed a central government that had more powers than the Confederation government had had, and they needed ways to keep the federal government from becoming tyrannical.

So gave the federal government more power--too much power in the eyes of the Anti-Federalists like George Mason and Patrick Henry--and they included all the things that we now call checks and balances, although those terms are not in the Constitution.  Separating the federal structure into three branches, each of which can to some degree check actions of the other two (through vetoes, veto overrides, impeachment, ruling laws unconstitutional, etc.), is a check, or rather a series of checks. Making the Senate represent different interests than the House is another.  Dividing powers between the states and the federal government is another.

And the Bill of Rights (1st 10 Amendments) put further restrictions on what the federal government could do.  Unfortunately (IMO), since the ratification of the 10th Amendment, all amendments that have dealt with federal-state relationships have strengthened the federal government at the expense of the states and/or the people.  The first three examples--the "Reconstruction Amendments"--were absolutely necessary, but nevertheless shifted the balance--13th Amendment abolishing slavery, 14th Amendment establishing birthright citizenship and equal protection of the laws, and 15th Amendment guaranteeing male-citizen voting rights.  I would argue that subsequent amendments were less necessary.  The 16th, income tax, was an ostensible attempt to level the economic playing field with a progressive tax.  But it empowered the federal government to look into everyone's bank account.  The 17th, direct election of U.S. Senators, as previously discussed, reduced the power of the states and weakened the check that the House and Senate are supposed to exercise upon each other.  The 18th imposed national prohibition of alcohol, and the 19th guaranteed female suffrage in every state.  Those four were the "Progressive-Era Amendments," and aside from their other effects for good or ill, they are consistent with Progressive efforts to strengthen the federal government and weaken the states.

To get back to my point, the Framers were attempting to create a government that would work, that would last, and that would not become tyrannical.  Fairness was not the main goal, and democracy was something to be restrained rather than magnified.

Incidentally, Woodrow Wilson, the great Progressive POTUS (who was also the most racist POTUS since Andrew Johnson) was the first president to openly disdain the Constitution.  He advocated a parliamentary system.  He was lucky he didn't have one, as the Democrats lost control of Congress in the 1918 mid-terms, so he would have lost a vote of confidence right at the end of WWI and Henry Cabot Lodge, or some other Republican, would have been our chief negotiator at the peace conference in Paris.

I say that Wilson was the first POTUS to openly disdain the Constitution, but T. Roosevelt (earlier POTUS) pretty much disregarded it whenever it got in his way.  He just didn't openly say that the Framers were idiots and that checks and balances were mischievous impediments to good government.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 03, 2020, 01:06:18 PM
Merrick Garland.

If Mitch McConnell doesn't want him occupying that seat, for whatever reason, then hold hearings and vote no.
How would Merrick Garland have guaranteed 4 years of GOP control of Congress under an H. Clinton presidency?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 03, 2020, 01:14:40 PM
To get back to my point, the Framers were attempting to create a government that would work, that would last, and that would not become tyrannical.  Fairness was not the main goal, and democracy was something to be restrained rather than magnified.
Well said. I think this is under-appreciated by most. 

The Declaration of Independence says it quite well:

Quote
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.


The goal was to have a just and responsible government that was functional--the choice of democracy vs representative republic vs monarchy was all about what would be most functional for the people.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2020, 03:16:27 PM
The proper definition is a tax per person to raise money. Though in context with the history of the United States, a poll tax was a scheme to prevent black people from voting.
What does any of that have to do with requiring convicted felons to complete any sentencing requirements before being allowed to vote?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2020, 03:25:06 PM
We're home.  The wife's surgery lasted two hours, the latter part of which I was getting worried (one hour slated).  The tear was worse than expected, but should be fine in a few months.  She's sleeping, or trying to.  She had this rather large impressive black shoulder harness with a red ball on the end near her hand.

She had a tear in the supraspinatus tendon, apparently at an unusual angle, generally called a rotator cuff injury.

Mine is different, apparently, though I have damage, he's going to fix mine using a different technique.  I hurt my arm in 1972, originally.  Ended my pitching career in effect, though I have tried to continue at various times, which probably didn't do it any good.

A biceps tenodesis is a type of surgery used to treat a tear in the tendon that connects your biceps muscle to your shoulder. The tenodesis may be performed alone or as part of a larger procedure on the shoulder. A tendon attaches muscle to bone.

A Mumford procedure is the removal of the farthest outer portion of the clavicle (or collarbone) which creates a more normal amount of space for shoulder movements. Some individuals are more likely to have shoulder impingement issues (ie. a pinching in the small spaces in the shoulder) due to their bony anatomy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 03, 2020, 03:31:48 PM
  I hurt my arm in 1972, originally.  Ended my pitching career in effect, though I have tried to continue at various times, which probably didn't do it any good.

I thought snapping your head back repeatedly watching screaming line drives leaving the park did that
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2020, 03:35:28 PM
I thought snapping your head back repeatedly watching screaming line drives leaving the park did that
I have never allowed a dinger in my life.  I have allowed quite a few screaming line drives.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 03, 2020, 03:43:07 PM
The appeal of repealing the 17th amendment is making state's units more powerful/influential?
The framers of the Constitution wanted equal representation for both the people and the states. While the people directly elect their Representatives to the House, the States power laid with the Senate. Therefore, the State Legislatures would appoint Senators to the US Senate to represent that state in the Federal Government.

The 17th Amendment took that responsibility from the State Legislature and placed it with the people effectively removing the states voice in the Fed Government and giving the people yet another voice. Once that happened, that is when Senators figured out that if they would vote to give the people money from the treasury, they could help to secure their position in the Congress. Since the passage of the 17th, the states have ceded more and more authority to the Federal Government.

This change has also helped to solidify the two party system in that individual Senators are beholden to their political parties for campaign funds. If a Senator becomes rouge from the party, the party leaders can withhold party funding in his/her next political campaign. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 03, 2020, 03:45:41 PM
What does any of that have to do with requiring convicted felons to complete any sentencing requirements before being allowed to vote?

Because it's widely suspected that the lawmaking body doesn't give a rat's ass about completing sentence requirements and they really just don't want them to vote. Further, roughly half of Florida's inmates are black, and about a quarter of black people couldn't vote because of the old law.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2020, 03:48:50 PM
"widely suspected", uh huh.

You're not saying very much nice about black men here, and claiming that 25% of black PEOPLE can't vote because of this law is, well, interesting.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 03, 2020, 03:50:08 PM
"widely suspected", uh huh.

You're not saying very much nice about black men here, and claiming that 25% of black PEOPLE can't vote because of this law is, well, interesting.


Yeah well I gotta live in reality
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on August 03, 2020, 03:52:14 PM
How would Merrick Garland have guaranteed 4 years of GOP control of Congress under an H. Clinton presidency?

Knowing they got away with it, Merrick Garland is how I would assume the GOP would conduct themselves on Capitol Hill. The GOP would treat all of Hillary's nominees the same way they did Garland (refuse to even take the nomination up and let Cabinet-level agencies flounder), then turn around and blame her for the incompetence of the government. Add in a horrible 2018 Senate map for Democrats, and it's not unreasonable to think the Republican caucus would control 58-59 seats (WI, PA, WV, OH, MT, NV all went the way they did due to the blue wave ).

All the while they'd still be re-litigating, re-investigating, and probably impeaching her for Benghazi. 

Perhaps I'm being overly pessimistic, and I'd love to be wrong, but expecting the worst has yet to let me down. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2020, 03:53:54 PM
I think they would have approved most of Clinton's nominees, that is quite different from approving a SCOTUS Justice for obvious reasons.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 03, 2020, 03:56:48 PM
Knowing they got away with it, Merrick Garland is how I would assume the GOP would conduct themselves on Capitol Hill. The GOP would treat all of Hillary's nominees the same way they did Garland (refuse to even take the nomination up and let Cabinet-level agencies flounder), then turn around and blame her for the incompetence of the government. Add in a horrible 2018 Senate map for Democrats, and it's not unreasonable to think the Republican caucus would control 58-59 seats (WI, PA, WV, OH, MT, NV all went the way they did due to the blue wave ).

All the while they'd still be re-litigating, re-investigating, and probably impeaching her for Benghazi.

Perhaps I'm being overly pessimistic, and I'd love to be wrong, but expecting the worst has yet to let me down.
Sounds familiar. I think that's all the house has done for 20 months now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 03, 2020, 04:03:17 PM
Sounds familiar. I think that's all the house has done for 20 months now.
Only in my dreams.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 03, 2020, 04:06:16 PM
Feels like reality here. It's like a daily read, these house investigations.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 03, 2020, 04:09:17 PM
Feels like reality here. It's like a daily read, these house investigations.
Not sure what you are referring to, though there is a LOT to investigate
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2020, 04:11:27 PM
a lot to investigate

nothing gets resolved

not many get thrown out of office

fewer get jail time

just playing patty cake, while doing nothing substantial
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2020, 04:19:21 PM
Who is the last national figure whose name you knew got serious jail time?

It's a very rare thing.  One possibility is all these national figures are just simply always behaving legally.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2020, 04:34:47 PM
:57:;)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 03, 2020, 04:35:48 PM
Sadly, investigations have become a political tool. I don't think any of them really care. They just want power.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2020, 04:37:30 PM
The televised "hearings" are a joke, IMHO, from both sides.  They are trying to come up with a 20 second sound bite that will sway minds.  They have zero intentions of uncovering anything substantive otherwise.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2020, 04:46:03 PM
Sadly, investigations have become a political tool. I don't think any of them really care. They just want power.
they just want to act as if they are doing something important

they are not

they have no intention of tossing their peers in jail

they merely want to throw mud on the other side of the 2-party isle
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2020, 04:52:28 PM
DES MOINES, Iowa — Iowa’s Republican governor has rejected two-thirds of the Democratic state attorney general’s requests to join multistate lawsuits, under an unusual compromise that has allowed her to repeatedly block the state’s involvement in challenges to Trump administration policies.

Iowa Attorney General Tom Miller agreed in May 2019 to seek Gov. Kim Reynolds’ approval before he would join multistate lawsuits. In turn, Reynolds vetoed a Republican-backed bill that would have prevented the state’s top lawyer from joining any multistate suit unless the governor or Legislature requested it.

Although the deal has allowed Reynolds to block 45 of 67 requests by Miller, the attorney general said he didn’t regret the bargain he made with the governor, which will expire when either of the officials leave office. Miller, 75, is the nation’s longest-serving state attorney general, having been elected 10 times.

“The most important thing is that the agreement is temporary and will not affect future attorneys general in Iowa,” Miller said in a statement. “It’s also important that I — and future AGs — retain the authority to comment on legislation and regulations before Congress and federal agencies.”


A spokesman for Reynolds declined to comment.

Attorneys general join multistate lawsuits for various reasons. Often it’s to recover damages for consumers in antitrust cases against companies when they attempt to quash competition, fix prices or limit availability of generic drugs.

But sometimes it’s more partisan, as has frequently been the case with Democratic attorneys general who have opposed President Donald Trump’s administration’s actions and with Republican state attorneys general when President Barack Obama was in office.

Records provided by Miller’s office show that at least nine of the 45 requests rejected by Reynolds challenged the Trump administration on issues of immigration and asylum policies.

Miller also was prevented from weighing in on at least eight cases involving abortion or birth control. Several other cases involved the relaxation of environmental regulations, at least four related to limits on guns or ammunition, and three pertained to sexual orientation or transgender rights.

In most of the cases, Miller asked to file documents often provided by parties not directly involved in a lawsuit, called amicus briefs. They are designed to advise the court of additional information and provide arguments for a particular position. Some cases were before the U.S. Supreme Court, although most were before a federal appeals court.

Miller said his colleagues across the country have been effective in bringing cases on health care, immigration, environmental protection, education, consumer protection and other issues.

“This agreement has not stopped the filing of any legal actions,” he said.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 03, 2020, 04:56:17 PM
Sounds familiar. I think that's all the house has done for 20 months now.
Bingo!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2020, 05:12:26 PM
I have a low opinion of nearly all Federal elected office holders.  I might think well of some who we don't hear about of course.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2020, 05:21:04 PM
the longer they have been in office, the lower my opinion of them

I think many of the young, new folks that are elected or have been recently, are probably good people with good intentions

then they get indoctrinated the "how things work" by the folks that have been there for a decade or more
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 03, 2020, 05:24:12 PM
How so on the Florida comment?
It was the Florida thing. I get there are some arguments for it, but they're pretty flimsy. 

The voters said "This is how we want the world to be." Politicians in power said, "We don't want to listen to the voters because we don't think it will hurt us." Now one can make arguments, but it was a somewhat naked power grab. And that's the way it works. 

And what's more, you have to pay the government for the right, after we spend a lot of time saying we are mad when we have to pay the government our money.

Badge compared it to licensing. This is less than apt for a couple reasons. The first is that licensing is often kind of a racket. I understand it to a degree when actual safety comes into play. And those court fees are basically paying a financial price so you can be put in jail. That seems like another small moment of government usury. The government gets to exercise power over you, and you get to pay for it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 03, 2020, 05:37:45 PM
The irony of taking away someone's license is that when you do that, you take away his/her ability to make money - and pay taxes.

I'm fine with felons not being allowed to vote, by the way.

If I was a felon, I couldn't practice/work/pay taxes. Why should I be allowed to vote?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 03, 2020, 05:38:26 PM
The framers of the Constitution wanted equal representation for both the people and the states. While the people directly elect their Representatives to the House, the States power laid with the Senate. Therefore, the State Legislatures would appoint Senators to the US Senate to represent that state in the Federal Government.

The 17th Amendment took that responsibility from the State Legislature and placed it with the people effectively removing the states voice in the Fed Government and giving the people yet another voice. Once that happened, that is when Senators figured out that if they would vote to give the people money from the treasury, they could help to secure their position in the Congress. Since the passage of the 17th, the states have ceded more and more authority to the Federal Government.

This change has also helped to solidify the two party system in that individual Senators are beholden to their political parties for campaign funds. If a Senator becomes rouge from the party, the party leaders can withhold party funding in his/her next political campaign.
I think that's an interesting angle, but I also think states were also more of separate entities at the founding of the country. State governments meant more because we were a less United States. 

I mean, it puts more power in the hands of career politicians. Maybe that's better? I dunno. 

It reminds me of an interesting political comparison I've often made. So part of the reason we have two parties is because we have all the smaller races that are first past the post. As a result, we have to make compromises to build coalitions. So we have people who like guns, who are very into a certain faith and who like more unfettered markets all banding together. The have folks who like police but also don't like a bigger government together. None of these things are inherently related, and some even contradict each other, but compromises are made because you build majorities. 

That contrasts to a place like Israel, where they have an unusual proportional parliament. So if a party gets 5 percent of the votes, they get 5 percent of the seats. It's good because it kills off the 2-party setup. But in the end, you need a coalition. So the socialists get some compromise to join the main line liberals, and the party that just wants pot can offer its votes to someone. The positions make the compromise and the parties hold power over nominees. I don't know if that's good or bad. I'm sure one rhetorically could make it seem somewhat bad (I feel like angst against established pols has been a huge part of recent discourse). 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2020, 05:38:41 PM
Here it is--an 8th-grade exam that is more than history and civics (sorry!)--on Snopes, which rates it "mixed" because Snopes questions whether the info demonstrates what people claim that it demonstrates.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/1895-exam/ (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/1895-exam/)

Still, I don't think many 8th-graders today would do well on an updated version of this one.
Chicago-Area Leaders Call for Illinois to Abolish History Classes

State Rep. LaShawn K. Ford said current history teachings overlook the contributions of women and minorities

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/chicago-area-leaders-call-for-illinois-to-eliminate-history-classes/2315752/ (https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/chicago-area-leaders-call-for-illinois-to-eliminate-history-classes/2315752/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 03, 2020, 05:40:45 PM
The irony of taking away someone's license is that when you do that, you take away his/her ability to make money - and pay taxes.

I'm fine with felons not being allowed to vote, by the way.

If I was a felon, I couldn't practice/work/pay taxes. Why should I be allowed to vote?
You could. 

Badge, felon means you were convicted of a felony and it extends after you're free. It's not someone in jail. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 03, 2020, 05:42:04 PM
Chicago-Area Leaders Call for Illinois to Abolish History Classes

State Rep. LaShawn K. Ford said current history teachings overlook the contributions of women and minorities

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/chicago-area-leaders-call-for-illinois-to-eliminate-history-classes/2315752/ (https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/chicago-area-leaders-call-for-illinois-to-eliminate-history-classes/2315752/)
Bleh. Divisiveness for attention. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 03, 2020, 05:45:51 PM
You could.

Badge, felon means you were convicted of a felony and it extends after you're free. It's not someone in jail.
There are some jobs you are not allowed to have if you are a convicted felon, even after your jail time.  And for good reason. 
Many firms in Finance and Banking won’t hire convicts.    That should make sense to anyone. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 03, 2020, 05:46:08 PM
You could.

Badge, felon means you were convicted of a felony and it extends after you're free. It's not someone in jail.
Not in Illinois. It runs with you forever - at least in the fields I practice in. Get a felony, and I'm done. Don't pay taxes, and I'm done. Don't pay child support, and I'm done. (I don't have any child support, so it matters none)

I don't know how it works in Florida. I have just applied so I will find out because I need to take exams. I'll start prep for those soon.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2020, 05:49:32 PM
Can a convicted felon become a lawyer?  I think they can, but it takes some doing.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 03, 2020, 05:51:03 PM
Not in Illinois. It runs with you forever - at least in the fields I practice in. Get a felony, and I'm done. Don't pay taxes, and I'm done. Don't pay child support, and I'm done. (I don't have any child support, so it matters none)

I don't know how it works in Florida. I have just applied so I will find out because I need to take exams. I'll start prep for those soon.
So you could work and pay taxes, you just couldn't be a licensed engineer?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 03, 2020, 05:52:32 PM
Can a convicted felon become a lawyer?  I think they can, but it takes some doing.


The BAR just stripped Blago of his credentials.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 03, 2020, 05:52:57 PM
There are some jobs you are not allowed to have if you are a convicted felon, even after your jail time.  And for good reason.
Many firms in Finance and Banking won’t hire convicts.    That should make sense to anyone.
In some cases, sure. 

But the way it operates, it basically assures that people who commit crimes will be in more desperate positions when they're out. And desperation creates issues up and down for person and society. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 03, 2020, 05:53:13 PM
So you could work and pay taxes, you just couldn't be a licensed engineer?
What would you like me to do?

Flip burgers?

Sit home for $600/week?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 03, 2020, 05:54:44 PM
The BAR just stripped Blago of his credentials.
That seems more symbolic than practical. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 03, 2020, 05:58:19 PM
What would you like me to do?

Flip burgers?

Sit home for $600/week?
Pretend you are a world class athlete in college. Of course that means flipping burgers
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 03, 2020, 05:59:12 PM
What would you like me to do?

Flip burgers?

Sit home for $600/week?
Such sass. 

I'm sure there's something engineering adjacent or business adjacent you could do for a solid bit of cash. Likewise, a felon could flip burgers. Or they could work hard, get an AA in an engineering-adjacent field and help society. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2020, 06:28:08 PM
There are some jobs you are not allowed to have if you are a convicted felon, even after your jail time.  And for good reason.
Many firms in Finance and Banking won’t hire convicts.    That should make sense to anyone.
just means not allowed by those firms

not by the government

I would guess it would depend on the felony

if the conviction was a bank robbery or forgery or embezzlement, then it's obvious
if it was something unrelated maybe not - Animal cruelty or drug sales
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 03, 2020, 06:51:19 PM
What would you like me to do?

Flip burgers?

Sit home for $600/week?
Martha is a felon and she had a cooking show with Snoop Dogg. I'm sure you're qualified enough for that. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 03, 2020, 06:56:04 PM
Martha is a felon and she had a cooking show with Snoop Dogg. I'm sure you're qualified enough for that.
And of the two of them, SHE is the only one who has been convicted of a felony.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 03, 2020, 07:31:34 PM
And of the two of them, SHE is the only one who has been convicted of a felony.
She can probably pay her probation fees though
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on August 03, 2020, 07:36:09 PM
Anyone see this on the Euro Tour this week?

https://youtu.be/DqwkbTjjpMY
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on August 03, 2020, 07:55:05 PM
Lovely.  Ive crossed frozen ponds to get to my ball even hitting off the ice but not this crazy.  I like how there happened to be a man made obstruction in his way too 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2020, 07:55:53 PM
didn't see it, but heard about it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2020, 07:57:41 PM
Lovely.  Ive crossed frozen ponds to get to my ball even hitting off the ice but not this crazy.  I like how there happened to be a man made obstruction in his way too
Pros playin in tourneys for thousands of dollars get much better rulings and fortuitous drops than I do playing my buddies for a beer
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 03, 2020, 07:58:43 PM
Anyone see this on the Euro Tour this week?

https://youtu.be/DqwkbTjjpMY
Ha.  That’s classic!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 03, 2020, 08:01:50 PM
In some cases, sure.

But the way it operates, it basically assures that people who commit crimes will be in more desperate positions when they're out. And desperation creates issues up and down for person and society.
Oh I don’t disagree.  You could make a fine argument that prison does not achieve either of it’s 2 stated goals:  offender being rehabilitated and offender paying debt to society.  
in fact the opposite is what usually happens 

nevertheless,  with plenty of candidates for jobs who have gone their entire lives showing good judgment it doesn’t make sense for companies that Handle money to hire those who have not shown good judgment
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2020, 08:05:08 PM
any company

obviously some felons are much better workers than those that haven't been through the criminal justice system
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on August 03, 2020, 08:55:19 PM
Pros playin in tourneys for thousands of dollars get much better rulings and fortuitous drops than I do playing my buddies for a beer
I think this depends on the company.  The nit pickiness from my old golfing buds normally is confined to stubbornness on the green.  We seem to take glee in making each other make everything. 
We tend to have enough forgiveness with stupid crap out on the course.  Paths, plugged lies, crappy bunkers, ground under repair etc.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2020, 08:57:57 PM
agreed, I play with good guys

the pros seem to take advantage of rules I wouldn't even allow myself to take

such as using a boat to get to my ball across a water hazard
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 03, 2020, 08:58:01 PM

We tend to have enough forgiveness with stupid crap out on the course. 
In other words you cheat?Go see Fearless he'll fill out your card
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2020, 09:00:39 PM
since I'm well known as a crappy putter

the ball has got to be "within the leathers" for a gimme

back in the day all grips were made of leader, if you lay your putter down from the hole to the ball, it has to be within the start of the grip.

bastages
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2020, 09:03:49 PM
We tend to have enough forgiveness with stupid crap out on the course.  Paths, plugged lies, crappy bunkers, ground under repair etc.
paths are easy, free drop no closer

plugged lie, only if it's because of casual water, otherwise too bad

crappy bunkers are a hazard, your ball shouldn't be in there.  play it as it lies - unless casual water

ground under repair is easy, free drop no closer

bunkers that are not maintained is one of my pet peeves
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 03, 2020, 09:28:51 PM
What does any of that have to do with requiring convicted felons to complete any sentencing requirements before being allowed to vote?
It disproportionately affects African Americans.  Disparate impact, it is called.  It's not racial on its face, but it affects one race more than another because of the facts on the ground.
One of Robert Heinlein's proposals back in the '50s was that you pay $200 up-front to vote and then you have to solve a quadratic equation.  If you solve it, you get your money back and you get to vote.  If you don't, you don't, and you don't.
That would have to be about $2000 now to have the same effect.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2020, 09:35:48 PM
crazy proposal, let the rich folks run the government?

crazy!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 03, 2020, 09:45:54 PM
The framers of the Constitution wanted equal representation for both the people and the states. While the people directly elect their Representatives to the House, the States power laid with the Senate. Therefore, the State Legislatures would appoint Senators to the US Senate to represent that state in the Federal Government.

The 17th Amendment took that responsibility from the State Legislature and placed it with the people effectively removing the states voice in the Fed Government and giving the people yet another voice. Once that happened, that is when Senators figured out that if they would vote to give the people money from the treasury, they could help to secure their position in the Congress. Since the passage of the 17th, the states have ceded more and more authority to the Federal Government.

This change has also helped to solidify the two party system in that individual Senators are beholden to their political parties for campaign funds. If a Senator becomes rouge from the party, the party leaders can withhold party funding in his/her next political campaign.
What the heck?  I posted a response to the quote, and all that posted was NOB's quote!

Anyway, NOB, good points.

I'm skeptical about your 3rd paragraph, though.  Typically, each state legislator voted for the nominee of his party.  At least that's how it worked in Illinois when Lincoln was running against Douglas in 1858.






Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 03, 2020, 10:01:44 PM
I think that's an interesting angle, but I also think states were also more of separate entities at the founding of the country. State governments meant more because we were a less United States.

Interesting point.  That was not the reason for the 17th Amendment, except in the general sense that Progressives wanted to steer power to Washington DC and away from the states.

Quote
I mean, it puts more power in the hands of career politicians. Maybe that's better? I dunno. 
I can read this two ways.  So, are you saying that the 17 Amendment shifted power to the career pols in Washington?

Quote
It reminds me of an interesting political comparison I've often made. So part of the reason we have two parties is because we have all the smaller races that are first past the post. As a result, we have to make compromises to build coalitions. So we have people who like guns, who are very into a certain faith and who like more unfettered markets all banding together. The have folks who like police but also don't like a bigger government together. None of these things are inherently related, and some even contradict each other, but compromises are made because you build majorities. 

That contrasts to a place like Israel, where they have an unusual proportional parliament. So if a party gets 5 percent of the votes, they get 5 percent of the seats. It's good because it kills off the 2-party setup. But in the end, you need a coalition. So the socialists get some compromise to join the main line liberals, and the party that just wants pot can offer its votes to someone. The positions make the compromise and the parties hold power over nominees. I don't know if that's good or bad. I'm sure one rhetorically could make it seem somewhat bad (I feel like angst against established pols has been a huge part of recent discourse).
There are pluses and minuses, but one thing the 2-party system has done is to promote political stability.  I think that Italy--with a parliamentary system--changed governments 9 times one year back in the '80s.
Less so now than historically the case, I think.  But then the parties haven't been this weak in almost 200 years.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 03, 2020, 10:41:13 PM
Interesting point.  That was not the reason for the 17th Amendment, except in the general sense that Progressives wanted to steer power to Washington DC and away from the states.

I can read this two ways.  So, are you saying that the 17 Amendment shifted power to the career pols in Washington?

There are pluses and minuses, but one thing the 2-party system has done is to promote political stability.  I think that Italy--with a parliamentary system--changed governments 9 times one year back in the '80s.
Less so now than historically the case, I think.  But then the parties haven't been this weak in almost 200 years.

To the first part: I don't know a ton of the history. A quick read on wiki pointed to some corruption around it. The state votes are certianly interesting, but I'd need to dig more into the backstory. 

To the second: I'm saying that the senators answered not to the voters, but to the pols in state government. And those folks are often all sorts of dug in. Senators often don't turn over often, but they turn over because they irked their constituents, not their fellow pols.

To the third: I certianly agree with the stability. But I mostly think its interesting that we have to get in a big tent before going into the voting booth, while in a few other places, that coalitioning happens at a higher level.

(I read a couple long books that touched on the sort of fascinating coalition of the pre-60s democratic party. It's national reach backed immigrants in NY, segregation in the south. And at a point, one half just dropped the other)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 04, 2020, 09:31:06 AM
It disproportionately affects African Americans.  Disparate impact, it is called.  It's not racial on its face, but it affects one race more than another because of the facts on the ground.
One of Robert Heinlein's proposals back in the '50s was that you pay $200 up-front to vote and then you have to solve a quadratic equation.  If you solve it, you get your money back and you get to vote.  If you don't, you don't, and you don't.
That would have to be about $2000 now to have the same effect.
Interesting.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 04, 2020, 09:48:47 AM
The Sioux City Council unanimously voted Monday to approve the purchase of 120 body cameras that will be worn daily by the city's police officers.

Purchasing cameras is currently voluntary for Iowa law enforcement agencies, but Sioux City has been considering them for several years, vetting different models and taking public input. In recent weeks, a number of citizens voiced concerns at council meetings about the police department's lack of body cameras.

Unity in the Community founder Monique Scarlett said outfitting Sioux City Police officers with body cameras is "something that is past due" and urged the community to work together.

"What I don't like is us versus them," she said. "Body cameras should be accountability for everyone, including our Sioux City Police Department, as well as our citizens."


The passage of the resolution awards a $260,861 purchase order to Midwest Public Safety LLC for the cameras. Included in the cost is the hardware and software needed to integrate the system with 37 patrol cars and equipment necessary to operate and maintain it. The police department hopes to have officers wearing the cameras before the end of this year.

Sioux City Police Chief Rex Mueller told the council that the "biggest sticking point" is receiving the materials, which could take six to eight weeks.

"We have basically already got the path paved. We have a policy written. Once we take delivery, we can then have trainers train the department and integrate it into our software," he said. "We're going to make this transition as quickly as possible."


Under the department's policy, Mueller said patrol officers will have to have the cameras turned on during all contacts with the public. He said officers will be allowed to turn the cameras off during "especially sensitive incidents," such as an interview with a victim.

"If officers did that, they would have to document why they shut those down," said Mueller, who said the department looked to the Commission on Accreditation for Law Enforcement Agencies for guidance when drafting its policy.


"Any officers that are accused of excessive force, I'd like that oversight committee to have access to all the information that pertains to the excessive force complaint," he said.

Mayor Bob Scott told Boykin that the city is working with Ike Rayford, president of the NAACP chapter in Sioux City, and a group of citizens to develop an equity and inclusiveness advisory committee that will "have some view of that in the future."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 04, 2020, 10:09:25 AM
Body cameras will not only protect the citizens but the officer as well

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 04, 2020, 10:11:58 AM

bunkers that are not maintained is one of my pet peeves
How is your course handling the current unpleasantness?

When I played in Oregon, they had pipe insulation around the bottom of each pin so the ball wouldn't drop *all* the way in, and didn't have anyone removing pins during play. The bunkers didn't have rakes around them so you couldn't rake the bunker after you got out. I guess they didn't want anyone touching communal items. This course still had ball washers but my wife's stepdad said his usual course removed those as well...

They weren't enforcing a "1 person per cart" rule which I've heard of elsewhere, but we'd have taken a single cart for the two of us anyway given that we were members of the same household for those 4 days anyway. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 04, 2020, 10:20:20 AM
To the first part: I don't know a ton of the history. A quick read on wiki pointed to some corruption around it. The state votes are certianly interesting, but I'd need to dig more into the backstory.

To the second: I'm saying that the senators answered not to the voters, but to the pols in state government. And those folks are often all sorts of dug in. Senators often don't turn over often, but they turn over because they irked their constituents, not their fellow pols.

To the third: I certianly agree with the stability. But I mostly think its interesting that we have to get in a big tent before going into the voting booth, while in a few other places, that coalitioning happens at a higher level.

(I read a couple long books that touched on the sort of fascinating coalition of the pre-60s democratic party. It's national reach backed immigrants in NY, segregation in the south. And at a point, one half just dropped the other)
As to the Senators not "answering to the people," that was by design.  The people had their Representatives in "the people's house," answerable every two years.
Senators being chosen in a different way from Representatives was one of the checks and balances.  The Progressives did not like checks and balances, because they wanted to pass legislation.  Making Senators more like Representatives with longer terms was a way to weaken one of the checks.  Direct election of Senators had been a Popululist demand before the Progressives arrived on the scene.  Short of the KKK, the American Nazi Party, and the Communist Party USA, Populists and Progressives are my two least-favorite political movements in American history.  If they both support an idea, my default analysis is that it was a bad one.
There weren't nearly as many career U.S. Senators then as there are now.  I looked it up a few years ago.  IIRC, 19 of the 20 longest Senate tenures have been since the ratification of the 17th Amendment.
It's interesting discussing the 17th Amendment, but it's also sort of pissing in the wind, because the 17th is not going away.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2020, 10:25:01 AM
It's interesting discussing the 17th Amendment, but it's also sort of pissing in the wind, because the 17th is not going away.
Some folks feel that way about the EC.  It may be interesting to discuss as a hypothetical, but other than that ....

This move by the states is interesting, but potentially uncon (I'm not sure why).  And I get a sense a state might pull out if it ever got to the critical number.
IMagine for example somehow Trump wins the popular vote and California throws all its electors to Trump.

I'd guess a lot of folks in CA would say "That isn't what I meant ...."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 04, 2020, 10:28:46 AM
Some folks feel that way about the EC.  It may be interesting to discuss as a hypothetical, but other than that ....

This move by the states is interesting, but potentially uncon (I'm not sure why).  And I get a sense a state might pull out if it ever got to the critical number.
IMagine for example somehow Trump wins the popular vote and California throws all its electors to Trump.

I'd guess a lot of folks in CA would say "That isn't what I meant ...."
Yep.  National Popular Vote could undo the will of the people of a state like nothing has done before.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 04, 2020, 10:29:03 AM
Some folks feel that way about the EC.  It may be interesting to discuss as a hypothetical, but other than that ....

This move by the states is interesting, but potentially uncon (I'm not sure why).  And I get a sense a state might pull out if it ever got to the critical number.
IMagine for example somehow Trump wins the popular vote and California throws all its electors to Trump.

I'd guess a lot of folks in CA would say "That isn't what I meant ...."
Yeah, which would be interesting. Especially if (somehow) a Republican won the popular vote while narrowly losing the electoral college vote.

Given the month and a half delay between the national vote and the time the electors meet, I can see a lot of voter demands in blue states for their state legislatures to have emergency votes on getting out of that whole NPVIC thing. Since most of the states pushing for this are blue states, I can see it being a problem if it goes against them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2020, 10:33:23 AM
They are all blue states, or purplish at best.  It's a clever reaction to 2000 and 2016 (mostly the former).  But it can have obvious but unanticipated consequences.

I figure if/when Texas/Georgia/Florida turn purplish to blue, it won't matter.  The red side would need to find candidates who are more purplish to win.

We've noted before how Presidents like JFK would be considered red today.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 04, 2020, 10:45:55 AM
They are all blue states, or purplish at best.  It's a clever reaction to 2000 and 2016 (mostly the former).  But it can have obvious but unanticipated consequences.

I figure if/when Texas/Georgia/Florida turn purplish to blue, it won't matter.  The red side would need to find candidates who are more purplish to win.

We've noted before how Presidents like JFK would be considered blue today.
You meant red, correct? Because yeah, he would be.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2020, 10:54:02 AM
Fixed it, meant conservative (red, because they don't want liberals to be labeled as red).

Confusing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 04, 2020, 11:03:44 AM
How is your course handling the current unpleasantness?

When I played in Oregon, they had pipe insulation around the bottom of each pin so the ball wouldn't drop *all* the way in, and didn't have anyone removing pins during play. The bunkers didn't have rakes around them so you couldn't rake the bunker after you got out. I guess they didn't want anyone touching communal items. This course still had ball washers but my wife's stepdad said his usual course removed those as well...

They weren't enforcing a "1 person per cart" rule which I've heard of elsewhere, but we'd have taken a single cart for the two of us anyway given that we were members of the same household for those 4 days anyway.
still have the pool noodle foam in the bottom of the cup, sand trap rakes are back after being pulled for a long while.  Some folks are pulling the pin again after not touching it for a while.  Most everyone sharing carts again after riding solo for a while.

the thing I miss is the water coolers - when heat index is triple digits I drank water from the coolers often.  Still gone.
my course is pretty much back to normal - not much social distancing at the bar upstairs

It could become a hotspot of spread.  The club pro quarantined for 10 days, his 20 year old daughter had COVID and gave it to her mother.  Dad tested negative.  Another worker there had COVID, missed a couple weeks of work.

The beer cart girls run the concessions, the food and drink at the bar.  They are all in their 20s.  Risky business. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 04, 2020, 11:04:16 AM
They are all blue states, or purplish at best.  It's a clever reaction to 2000 and 2016 (mostly the former).  But it can have obvious but unanticipated consequences.

similar to "fixing" the BCS  formula
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 04, 2020, 11:04:27 AM
The EC is truly stupid. I figure eventually the stupidity of it will eventually become obvious to enough people that it goes away.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2020, 11:34:19 AM
The EC is truly stupid. I figure eventually the stupidity of it will eventually become obvious to enough people that it goes away.

It just goes away because it's stupid?  Like gasohol went away because it's stupid?

How do these things just "go away"?  I'm curious about that.  I had some notion there had to be substantive steps taken for them to "go away".
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 04, 2020, 11:51:55 AM
It just goes away because it's stupid?  Like gasohol went away because it's stupid?

How do these things just "go away"?  I'm curious about that.  I had some notion there had to be substantive steps taken for them to "go away".
Sure, though popular support can seem to swing wildly. For example, in recent history just look at how we've viewed kneeling for the national anthem, or legalizing gay marriage. While there is no question people worked very hard on those issues, to some extent it's just people being confronted with a new idea and realizing it's fine despite initial reservations.

The EC seems like something that could be like that. Some people's vote counting more than others is dumb. Candidates ignoring half the states is dumb. Call me an optimist but we will eventually hit less dumbness in our system.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 04, 2020, 11:53:28 AM
Of course a good counterpoint on dumbness in the system

https://twitter.com/axios/status/1290497186489348096?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 04, 2020, 12:02:34 PM
Sure, though popular support can seem to swing wildly. For example, in recent history just look at how we've viewed kneeling for the national anthem, or legalizing gay marriage. While there is no question people worked very hard on those issues, to some extent it's just people being confronted with a new idea and realizing it's fine despite initial reservations.

The EC seems like something that could be like that. Some people's vote counting more than others is dumb. Candidates ignoring half the states is dumb. Call me an optimist but we will eventually hit less dumbness in our system.
why would a popular vote cause candidates to NOT ignore half the states?

why put time and money and energy into Wyoming, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana?
The only hope those states have is being a swing state for a few EC votes
same with Iowa or Wisconsin
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on August 04, 2020, 12:07:21 PM
As to the Senators not "answering to the people," that was by design.  The people had their Representatives in "the people's house," answerable every two years.
Senators being chosen in a different way from Representatives was one of the checks and balances.  The Progressives did not like checks and balances, because they wanted to pass legislation.  Making Senators more like Representatives with longer terms was a way to weaken one of the checks.  Direct election of Senators had been a Popululist demand before the Progressives arrived on the scene.  Short of the KKK, the American Nazi Party, and the Communist Party USA, Populists and Progressives are my two least-favorite political movements in American history.  If they both support an idea, my default analysis is that it was a bad one.
There weren't nearly as many career U.S. Senators then as there are now.  I looked it up a few years ago.  IIRC, 19 of the 20 longest Senate tenures have been since the ratification of the 17th Amendment.
It's interesting discussing the 17th Amendment, but it's also sort of pissing in the wind, because the 17th is not going away.

All you have to do is look at how often Senators were changed out before the 17th amendment. Senators lost their seats all the time because of some issue or another. It wasn't too unusual for Senators to resign mid-term because they lost the support of their state legislatures. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 04, 2020, 12:12:20 PM
why would a popular vote cause candidates to NOT ignore half the states?

why put time and money and energy into Wyoming, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana?
The only hope those states have is being a swing state for a few EC votes
same with Iowa or Wisconsin
But they aren't swing states, so neither party had any incentive to care about them. By popular vote, both parties can get votes there and so have incentive to pay attention.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 04, 2020, 12:13:36 PM
they can't get enough votes to matter

there are many swing states that get attention now that would be passed by if it was merely a popular vote
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 04, 2020, 12:22:05 PM
they can't get enough votes to matter

there are many swing states that get attention now that would be passed by if it was merely a popular vote
They would be paid attention to in proportion to the number of voters there, which truly seems like the fairest way to do it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 04, 2020, 12:25:10 PM
Sure, though popular support can seem to swing wildly. For example, in recent history just look at how we've viewed kneeling for the national anthem, or legalizing gay marriage. While there is no question people worked very hard on those issues, to some extent it's just people being confronted with a new idea and realizing it's fine despite initial reservations.

The EC seems like something that could be like that. Some people's vote counting more than others is dumb. Candidates ignoring half the states is dumb. Call me an optimist but we will eventually hit less dumbness in our system.
Yeah, but it requires a Constitutional amendment to get rid of the Electoral College. Even the Supreme Court won't just unilaterally declare the electoral college, which is written into the Constitution, to be unconstitutional. This isn't like gay marriage. 

So unless you get consistent election results where the EC and the popular vote diverge, it won't happen.

And then you need 3/4 of the states to ratify it. Which is an EXTREMELY high bar for something like this because you have a bunch of smaller states and red states that don't want to get rid of their power and have the President elected by California and New York, so the vote that matters (number of states) is stacked against the very group that has the power to ratify a Constitutional amendment. 

So you need such overwhelming popular support in red states to force their legislature to overturn an electoral college which gives excess weight to red states. 

How do you propose we're going to get around that?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 04, 2020, 12:33:41 PM
It is a high bar, though in my universe the smaller states realize the "power" they have is outweighed by the fact that the EC encourages candidates to completely ignore most of them.

I'm just citing gay marriage as something where support has grown considerable, from about a third in 2003 to about 2/3s now. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 04, 2020, 12:35:13 PM
They would be paid attention to in proportion to the number of voters there, which truly seems like the fairest way to do it.
so, Wyoming, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana, Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa and Wisconsin
wouldn't matter, at all

if they did somehow become a swing state with EC votes, they probably don't either, but there's a chance

3 million folks in Iowa, half of them vote, 60% go to to more popular candidate.  Flyover country - no voice

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 04, 2020, 12:39:28 PM
so, Wyoming, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana, Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa and Wisconsin
wouldn't matter, at all

if they did somehow become a swing state with EC votes, they probably don't either, but there's a chance

3 million folks in Iowa, half of them vote, 60% go to to more popular candidate.  Flyover country - no voice


Hillary won 2016 by about 3 million votes and Obama in 2012 by about 5 million. How on earth could they afford to ignore millions of voters?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 04, 2020, 12:48:54 PM
so, Wyoming, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana, Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa and Wisconsin
wouldn't matter, at all

if they did somehow become a swing state with EC votes, they probably don't either, but there's a chance

3 million folks in Iowa, half of them vote, 60% go to to more popular candidate.  Flyover country - no voice


It's interesting. In the EC arrangement, Wyoming, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana, Nebraska, Kansas all fall into the "Don't matter" category. 

In the larger sense, states are still arbitrary. If Wyoming has around as many people as Oakland, why should it have this special hold? Because it's bigger in terms of land? Because it's drawn somewhere? 

That's not to be flippant. These are all just ideas of places to one degree or another, with structures built around that. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 04, 2020, 12:53:45 PM
As to the Senators not "answering to the people," that was by design.  The people had their Representatives in "the people's house," answerable every two years.
Senators being chosen in a different way from Representatives was one of the checks and balances.  The Progressives did not like checks and balances, because they wanted to pass legislation.  Making Senators more like Representatives with longer terms was a way to weaken one of the checks.  Direct election of Senators had been a Popululist demand before the Progressives arrived on the scene.  Short of the KKK, the American Nazi Party, and the Communist Party USA, Populists and Progressives are my two least-favorite political movements in American history.  If they both support an idea, my default analysis is that it was a bad one.
Fair enough. 

I still don't really trust state governments and probably feel the people's vote is probably a better route, that is what it is. Maybe it would be better, maybe it would just be a different kind of sliminess. Who is to say?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 04, 2020, 01:10:49 PM
Hillary won 2016 by about 3 million votes and Obama in 2012 by about 5 million. How on earth could they afford to ignore millions of voters?
well, they certainly couldn't afford to ignore millions of voters in large cities.

Besides, I'd guess less than 2 million people in Iowa went to the polls and voted.

how much time and energy to impress folks in Houston and San Antonio, TX with more people than the entire state of Iowa.  Do they even bother with Nebraska, or just run a couple media adds in Omaha and Lincoln.

Wyoming?  North Dakota?
I understand a vote is a vote and they all count.  But when trying to get 3 million more votes than your opponent, you're not spending much time if any at all in Nebraska or Wyoming.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 04, 2020, 01:18:04 PM
Hillary won 2016 by about 3 million votes and Obama in 2012 by about 5 million. How on earth could they afford to ignore millions of voters?
Easy.  Clinton lost 32 of the 50 states.
the state’s elect the president.  As it should be in a republic.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 04, 2020, 01:21:07 PM
Easy.  Clinton lost 32 of the 50 states.
the state’s elect the president.  As it should be in a republic. 
He's talking about the game theory of ignoring voters. Like right now it favors both parties to ignore states they are almost certain to win or lose. If the votes there are counted individually it becomes much less tactical to ignore them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2020, 01:26:57 PM
Should a plurality be sufficient, or should we demand a majority?  Folks talk about majority vote winning, so maybe it's the latter.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 04, 2020, 01:42:26 PM
I don't understand why people (progressives) continually want to shit all over our Constitution.

If they don't like it, why not just GTFO?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2020, 01:53:01 PM
I think if I don't like it, the best thing to do is try and change it to make it better, legally.  We have a provision for that.

I'm just tired, Boss.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2020, 01:56:34 PM
I mentioned this story before, I walked over to see the orthopedic guy about my shoulder.  (The wife did the same.)  He sent me to X-ray first, took 10 minutes or so.  He then sent me for an MRI.  They scheduled me for about 2 hours later in the afternoon.  (The bill was $4731, which I didn't pay, yet.)  The doc had my MRI a day later and scheduled surgery two weeks later.

I mentioned to the wife "Just like in France, eh?" and she's still laughing about that.  Now, I'm sure this whole gig will be ridiculously expensive, using the lists prices, probably $30 K or so.  But it is amazingly fast and streamlined.  And of course I have Grade A insurance apparently.

The wife starts PT tomorrow morning, early, and then I have the dreaded lurgy test (which is "free").
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 04, 2020, 02:06:12 PM
I mentioned this story before, I walked over to see the orthopedic guy about my shoulder.  (The wife did the same.)  He sent me to X-ray first, took 10 minutes or so.  He then sent me for an MRI.  They scheduled me for about 2 hours later in the afternoon.  (The bill was $4731, which I didn't pay, yet.)  The doc had my MRI a day later and scheduled surgery two weeks later.

I mentioned to the wife "Just like in France, eh?" and she's still laughing about that.  Now, I'm sure this whole gig will be ridiculously expensive, using the lists prices, probably $30 K or so.  But it is amazingly fast and streamlined.  And of course I have Grade A insurance apparently.

The wife starts PT tomorrow morning, early, and then I have the dreaded lurgy test (which is "free").
Heh well you didn't have cancer, that requires three months of physical therapy before you get an MRI
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 04, 2020, 02:12:32 PM
I think if I don't like it, the best thing to do is try and change it to make it better, legally.  We have a provision for that.

I'm just tired, Boss.
There is no way to make this country better. The founders had it right, and their successors mostly had it right with Amendments.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2020, 02:17:46 PM
Obviously, different people have different views about what would be better (me included, but my views are "unlikely" to find traction).

There is a process for changing from the EC to something else, a few details might be needed in that something else of course.  Have at it.

I think it would spark some unintended changes in our political system, some of which could be good, some perhaps not.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 04, 2020, 02:19:22 PM
There is no way to make this country better. The founders had it right, and their successors mostly had it right with Amendments.
well, that's just like your opinion, Dude
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 04, 2020, 02:22:32 PM
well, that's just like your opinion, Dude
His too.

(https://i.imgur.com/Lav1Hj4.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 04, 2020, 02:24:21 PM


Detroit is by far the highest so if youre gonna exclude it then you have to exclude the St Louis area as well 
You could exclude every poorly run city in this country and the totals would shrink a whole lot.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 04, 2020, 02:25:04 PM
If they thought it was infallible I don't think they would have included an amendment process
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 04, 2020, 02:25:14 PM
Sure, though popular support can seem to swing wildly. For example, in recent history just look at how we've viewed kneeling for the national anthem, or legalizing gay marriage. While there is no question people worked very hard on those issues, to some extent it's just people being confronted with a new idea and realizing it's fine despite initial reservations.

The EC seems like something that could be like that. Some people's vote counting more than others is dumb. Candidates ignoring half the states is dumb. Call me an optimist but we will eventually hit less dumbness in our system.
In other words, with the NEA doing it's best to dumb down the populist through indoctrination in our schools, eventually the populist will be brainwashed enough and sufficiently ignorant of the purpose of the EC, to have the support to over turn it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 04, 2020, 02:27:23 PM
You could exclude every poorly run city in this country and the totals would shrink a whole lot.



would that be any city larger than 500,000 population?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 04, 2020, 02:48:08 PM
would that be any city larger than 500,000 population?
That would take too many out. Let's go with 250K.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 04, 2020, 03:05:57 PM
In other words, with the NEA doing it's best to dumb down the populist through indoctrination in our schools, eventually the populist will be brainwashed enough and sufficiently ignorant of the purpose of the EC, to have the support to over turn it.
Eh or just use common sense. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2020, 03:23:12 PM
Our Great Founding Fathers whiffed the first time they tried to design a government.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 04, 2020, 03:28:43 PM
There is no way to make this country better. The founders had it right, and their successors mostly had it right with Amendments.
I mean, they did hold people as property, which was acknowledged in the constitution. I think it would be fair to say this country got in some ways better when that stopped. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 04, 2020, 03:29:43 PM
In other words, with the NEA doing it's best to dumb down the populist through indoctrination in our schools, eventually the populist will be brainwashed enough and sufficiently ignorant of the purpose of the EC, to have the support to over turn it.
In this case, what would you describe as the purpose of the EC?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2020, 03:32:32 PM
The original purpose of the EC is quite clear, I think.  The current purpose?  I don't know that there is one other than some advantages it has over popular voting.

They are not "purposes", just features.

I'm told it will somehow just go away in time though.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 04, 2020, 03:35:19 PM
The original purpose of the EC is quite clear, I think.  The current purpose?  I don't know that there is one other than some advantages it has over popular voting.

They are not "purposes", just features.

I'm told it will somehow just go away in time though.
Advantages - large sections of the electorate ignored, easier to do recounts, some people's votes count more than others

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 04, 2020, 03:41:18 PM
There is no way to make this country better. The founders had it right, and their successors mostly had it right with Amendments.
Well one thing IMO - repeal laws/regulations/rules put on the books by powerful special interest lobbyists.The FF's couldn't see that coming
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2020, 03:49:42 PM
Well one thing IMO - repeal laws/regulations/rules put on the books by powerful special interest lobbyists.The FF's couldn't see that coming
How do you determine which regulations etc. these comprise?

I've spent some time reading parts of the CFR, and I could not tell which were put in place by special interest groups.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2020, 03:51:24 PM
https://www.procon.org/headlines/the-electoral-college-top-3-pros-and-cons/ (https://www.procon.org/headlines/the-electoral-college-top-3-pros-and-cons/)

Reasonable pro con section on the EC is interested.

Often I find "things" get tougher when one considered both sides rationally and without bias.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 04, 2020, 03:54:57 PM
How do you determine which regulations etc. these comprise?
If it screws the middle class - it's special interest lobbyists
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2020, 03:57:18 PM
They all screw the middle class indirectly, and many of them also protect the middle class.

There is no bright dividing line.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 04, 2020, 03:58:26 PM
They all screw the middle class indirectly, and many of them also protect the middle class.

There is no bright dividing line.
Ya there is read the previous post.If you had religion you'd realize this O:-)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 04, 2020, 04:19:57 PM
https://www.procon.org/headlines/the-electoral-college-top-3-pros-and-cons/ (https://www.procon.org/headlines/the-electoral-college-top-3-pros-and-cons/)

Reasonable pro con section on the EC is interested.

Often I find "things" get tougher when one considered both sides rationally and without bias.
I don't find it very reasonable at all. The first pro is ridiculous. The electoral college that exists is not what the founding fathers designed, and if someone had been elected that didn't demonstrate proper "qualifications," it is without question Donald Trump.

The second is also false. The electoral college doesn't promote nationwide elections. It promotes the opposite. Giving a large voice to small special interests like "farmers in Iowa" gets you things like ethanol. What about farmers in California? I guess they don't count. In any event, the premiere flaw of the electoral college is that it encourages candidates to ignore voters. I wouldn't call that a pro.

The third is silly. We could easily award the election to whoever gets the most votes. Or not, we could say we want a majority. I don't care a lot either way, but calling this a pro is goofy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 04, 2020, 04:28:03 PM
over 200 years ago, perhaps all the states were "swing" states w/o hard lines as red or blue

perhaps all electoral votes counted more than today - Iowa, Nebraska, and Wyoming weren't states yet.

Large cities may not have had large percentages voting one way or another because of poverty and privilege 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 04, 2020, 04:34:45 PM
I am getting verklempt! Talk amongst yourselves. I will give you a topic:
The Electoral college. 

Did you know that about half off our immigrants are Asian? ( nothing wrong with that)

Did you know that over 80% settle in 2 states, California and New York. ( nothing wrong with that).  That’s millions of people. 

Did you know that in 2017, 71% of California’ a population of 25 and older without a HS diploma were immigrants?  ( nothing wrong with that) 31% of their population with a college degree were immigrants? ( nothing wrong with that)

Now- let’s say our friends in the CCP wanted to sneak a few million of their most loyal communist Citizens into the USA in California and New York, to impact our voting.  Not that far fetched- we have seen their aspirations and they would be but a blip on the radar of total immigrants coming in.  Hell- they may have already done it. 

With the EC in place- their ability to do this is practically eliminated. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 04, 2020, 04:37:51 PM
Great Poinst HB
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 04, 2020, 04:41:52 PM
2020 swing states

If current trends from the 2012 and 2016 elections continue, the closest results in 2020 will occur in Arizona, Florida, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin

What if the CCP was smarter and snuck a few million of their most loyal communist Citizens into the USA in Arizona and Floriduh?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 04, 2020, 04:47:03 PM
I am getting verklempt! Talk amongst yourselves. I will give you a topic:
The Electoral college.

Did you know that about half off our immigrants are Asian? ( nothing wrong with that)

Did you know that over 80% settle in 2 states, California and New York. ( nothing wrong with that).  That’s millions of people.

Did you know that in 2017, 71% of California’ a population of 25 and older without a HS diploma were immigrants?  ( nothing wrong with that) 31% of their population with a college degree were immigrants? ( nothing wrong with that)

Now- let’s say our friends in the CCP wanted to sneak a few million of their most loyal communist Citizens into the USA in California and New York, to impact our voting.  Not that far fetched- we have seen their aspirations and they would be but a blip on the radar of total immigrants coming in.  Hell- they may have already done it.

With the EC in place- their ability to do this is practically eliminated.


Like Fearless alludes to - that kind of chicanery is encouraged by the electoral college.  Because some states are punching way above their station, a few million extra voters in, say Florida, could actually swing the entire election.  A popular vote eliminates that, because it would just add extra votes.  It wouldn't matter if they voted out of New York or California or Wyoming, because every vote would count exactly the same.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 04, 2020, 05:00:14 PM
I am getting verklempt! Talk amongst yourselves. I will give you a topic:
The Electoral college.

Did you know that about half off our immigrants are Asian? ( nothing wrong with that)

Did you know that over 80% settle in 2 states, California and New York. ( nothing wrong with that).  That’s millions of people.

Did you know that in 2017, 71% of California’ a population of 25 and older without a HS diploma were immigrants?  ( nothing wrong with that) 31% of their population with a college degree were immigrants? ( nothing wrong with that)

Now- let’s say our friends in the CCP wanted to sneak a few million of their most loyal communist Citizens into the USA in California and New York, to impact our voting.  Not that far fetched- we have seen their aspirations and they would be but a blip on the radar of total immigrants coming in.  Hell- they may have already done it.

With the EC in place- their ability to do this is practically eliminated.
This implies those immigrants couldn't leave either NY or California. They can. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 04, 2020, 05:04:16 PM
This implies those immigrants couldn't leave either NY or California. They can.
If they are ordered to stay, they can't.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 04, 2020, 05:15:14 PM
Like Fearless alludes to - that kind of chicanery is encouraged by the electoral college.  Because some states are punching way above their station, a few million extra voters in, say Florida, could actually swing the entire election.  A popular vote eliminates that, because it would just add extra votes.  It wouldn't matter if they voted out of New York or California or Wyoming, because every vote would count exactly the same. 
But a few million extra voters from Asia in any state but New York or California would not go unnoticed. It would jump right off the page.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 04, 2020, 05:16:40 PM
Now- let’s say our friends in the CCP wanted to sneak a few million of their most loyal communist Citizens into the USA in California and New York, to impact our voting.  Not that far fetched- we have seen their aspirations and they would be but a blip on the radar of total immigrants coming in.  Hell- they may have already done it.
You realize that immigrants have to go through a significant years-long process to become US citizens, right? And they can't vote until they are citizens? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 04, 2020, 05:22:49 PM
You realize that immigrants have to go through a significant years-long process to become US citizens, right? And they can't vote until they are citizens?
I think it's fair to say we are working on the last few beers in the case once conspiracies about China sending people to covertly vote in our election.  Still, I've got an Oktoberfest and I'm watching hockey and I'm definitely here for it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 04, 2020, 05:23:56 PM
But a few million extra voters from Asia in any state but New York or California would not go unnoticed. It would jump right off the page.
Perhaps Cuba will send voters to Florida
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 04, 2020, 05:24:42 PM
You realize that immigrants have to go through a significant years-long process to become US citizens, right? And they can't vote until they are citizens?
China is very patient. This is proven.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 04, 2020, 05:25:18 PM
much easier for the CCP to simply mail ballots from the homeland like they did with the seeds
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 04, 2020, 05:25:41 PM
You realize that immigrants have to go through a significant years-long process to become US citizens, right? And they can't vote until they are citizens?
Yep. On average, how long before the average Chinese immigrant is here before they are allowed to vote?   And for how many years have millions per year migrated here?
Wikepedia knows lol
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 04, 2020, 05:25:45 PM
Perhaps Cuba will send voters to Florida
They have. They came here to flee what many want this country to become.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 04, 2020, 05:26:20 PM
I'm not moving to Florida
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 04, 2020, 05:27:10 PM
I feel like Russia cracked the code on affecting the election with the least effort
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 04, 2020, 05:30:44 PM
I feel like Russia cracked the code on affecting the election with the least effort
They've been doing it since Al Gore invented the internet.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 04, 2020, 05:30:50 PM
I think it's fair to say we are working on the last few beers in the case once conspiracies about China sending people to covertly vote in our election.  Still, I've got an Oktoberfest and I'm watching hockey and I'm definitely here for it.
No Sam.   Let me give you an example of a real life conspiracy theory. I see this on average once or twice a week:

1. Media reports major problem with mail in balloting. Other Media outlets join in and discuss
2.  POTUS says there is major problem with mail in voting 
3. Conspiracy theory born and spread..”POTUS” suppressing vote by discussing challenges of mail in voting POTUS fear mongering. 
lol.  That’s a conspiracy theory. 
my post was just an example of something that could happen.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 04, 2020, 05:32:11 PM
I feel like Russia cracked the code on affecting the election with the least effort
Well their candidate lost..    so there is that 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 04, 2020, 05:32:49 PM
not enough effort, obviously
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2020, 05:35:02 PM
China is very patient. This is proven.
I'm waiting for them to become impatient.

I'll be a patient on Monday.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2020, 05:36:38 PM
I feel like Russia cracked the code on affecting the election with the least effort
Both the DNC and RNC should be hiring them.  They spent something like $85 million and were allegedly more effective than the BILLIONS spent by professionals in each party.  Allegedly.

But the specific items I saw attributed to the Russians were comical and amateurish.

This is to me not a remotely plausible nor realistic conclusion.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 04, 2020, 05:39:42 PM
Both the DNC and RNC should be hiring them.  They spent something like $85 million and were allegedly more effective than the BILLIONS spent by professionals in each party.  Allegedly.

But the specific items I saw attributed to the Russians were comical and amateurish.

This is to me not a remotely plausible nor realistic conclusion.
I mean...have you seen the president?  Comical and amateurish is all the rage these days.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on August 04, 2020, 05:41:24 PM
Perhaps Cuba will send voters to Florida
They already have. Have you ever been to Miami? Time to start sending some of them back. Although I love Cuban women. 


https://www.instagram.com/p/CB4N3d7gJPo/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CAc_rfhAZ7G/



On second thought. God Bless Cuba.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 04, 2020, 05:42:36 PM
Cuban food is also very good
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 04, 2020, 05:44:19 PM
The Cuban is also a pretty great sandwich.  Though I ride with salami on it.  The hardest part for me is finding the right bread for them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on August 04, 2020, 05:45:17 PM
Cuban food is also very good
yes it is. cuban woman even better. much more dangerous for your health though.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on August 04, 2020, 05:46:45 PM
The Cuban is also a pretty great sandwich.  Though I ride with salami on it.  The hardest part for me is finding the right bread for them.

you ride the salami? typical buckeye.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 04, 2020, 05:52:38 PM
you ride the salami? typical buckeye.
It's true.  I gotta go with the winner
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 04, 2020, 05:54:06 PM
I think it's fair to say we are working on the last few beers in the case once conspiracies about China sending people to covertly vote in our election.  Still, I've got an Oktoberfest and I'm watching hockey and I'm definitely here for it.
Some of us don't measure beer by the case, we measure it by the gallon.

I've got lots of them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 04, 2020, 05:57:48 PM
Some of us don't measure beer by the case, we measure it by the gallon.

I've got lots of them.
YAS please tell me you and MDot will make a wager where the loser pounds a gallon of beer
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2020, 05:59:59 PM
Funny story, in my old "job", I at times helped the lawyers (who often needed help).  Part of that was reading briefs from our side and then their side.  Almost every time, I'd read out brief and say "We have them locked down here." and then I'd read their rebuttal and think "We're toast."

It was fascinating to me how the lawyers could bring up these somewhat obscure points to help their cause effectively.

My actual input was only technical, not legal, so I didn't have to weigh in on the legalities of it all.

Fortunately.  One lawyer we had billed 20 hours per day, and everyone said "He really does work 20 hours a day."  At a grand per, 20 years ago.

I never met him, wanted to.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 04, 2020, 06:05:57 PM
If they are ordered to stay, they can't.
You can immigrate here, but once here, your mobility is limited? Ehhh.

OTOH in this somewhat fantastical situation, all the Chinese government has to do is ID a weak point in the republican nomination process and slip in a candidate that's weak or friendly, then flip CA and NY. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 04, 2020, 06:06:23 PM
I mean...have you seen the president?  Comical and amateurish is all the rage these days.
Agreed.  And that’s on a good day lol.

So many others fall into that same category though.  We aren’t supposed to name names so I won’t.

Schitt, Nadless, Swallow, Murmer and Nazi Pull- oh-see.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 04, 2020, 06:11:51 PM
Yep. On average, how long before the average Chinese immigrant is here before they are allowed to vote?  And for how many years have millions per year migrated here?
Wikepedia knows lol
I didn't go that deep. I did look around and find that 52% of California's immigrant population are now naturalized citizens, but that wasn't broken down by country of origin. 

We have about 11M immigrants out of a population of ~40M. Less than 1M of them (969K) are from China. Assuming we just spitball it and say that we apply the 52% to those, you get ~500K votes. The woman from Chicago from New York on the D ticket won the state by over 4M votes. 

I'm guessing the Chinese could do a lot better by following the Russian model.

Well their candidate lost..    so there is that
The guy who tried to extort Ukraine into announcing an investigation that they were the source of Russian election meddling by not selling them military gear, after Russia annexed the Crimea from the Ukraine, isn't their guy? The guy who didn't listen to any intelligence briefings that the Russians were offering the Taliban bounties on American servicemen, and continues to pooh-pooh the story, isn't their guy? The guy who is asking to let them into the G7 isn't their guy? The guy who walked away from Syria creating a power vacuum for Russia to fill isn't their guy?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2020, 06:19:25 PM
IN full disclosure, my wife is an immigrant.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 04, 2020, 06:25:19 PM
YAS please tell me you and MDot will make a wager where the loser pounds a gallon of beer
I'm in
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 04, 2020, 06:26:03 PM
In full disclosure, I'm a convicted felon

and I still vote!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 04, 2020, 06:29:02 PM
YAS please tell me you and MDot will make a wager where the loser pounds a gallon of beer
I'd consider it, but not of the beer I brew. Give me some Miller Lite for that. 

Back in the college days, Century Club was a great way to start a Saturday.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 04, 2020, 06:31:24 PM
that's not even a 12 pack of Bud Fat
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 04, 2020, 06:36:43 PM
Some people think it's 100 oz over 100 minutes, but most shot glasses are 1.5 oz. If you assume a 0.25 oz loss from pouring on each shot, it's ~120 ounces or 10 beers over 100 minutes. 

I never failed to complete it when I tried, but some people just couldn't hang.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on August 04, 2020, 06:39:59 PM
YAS please tell me you and MDot will make a wager where the loser pounds a gallon of beer
I'm a lightweight. I can't drink beer. I don't even like it.

I much prefer hard liquor or good wine. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 04, 2020, 06:42:49 PM
I'm a lightweight. I can't drink beer. I don't even like it.
The Money I could have saved
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 04, 2020, 06:44:13 PM
I'm a lightweight. I can't drink beer. I don't even like it.

I much prefer hard liquor or good wine.
Ok gallon of hard liquor it is.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 04, 2020, 06:45:22 PM
You realize that immigrants have to go through a significant years-long process to become US citizens, right? And they can't vote until they are citizens?
Commies don't follow rulz
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on August 04, 2020, 06:56:27 PM
Ok gallon of hard liquor it is.
are you trying to kill me sir? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on August 04, 2020, 06:57:40 PM
Commies don't follow rulz
here's a rule. let's post more pics of women and post less banter/arguing. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 04, 2020, 07:02:30 PM
Hb said China is sending commie voters - just sayin'
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 04, 2020, 07:04:23 PM
I never failed to complete it when I tried, but some people just couldn't hang.
I never got into drinking games,but i do drink during games
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 04, 2020, 07:04:58 PM
are you trying to kill me sir?
Not if you win!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 04, 2020, 07:49:13 PM
I didn't go that deep. I did look around and find that 52% of California's immigrant population are now naturalized citizens, but that wasn't broken down by country of origin.

We have about 11M immigrants out of a population of ~40M. Less than 1M of them (969K) are from China. Assuming we just spitball it and say that we apply the 52% to those, you get ~500K votes. The woman from Chicago from New York on the D ticket won the state by over 4M votes.

I'm guessing the Chinese could do a lot better by following the Russian model.
The guy who tried to extort Ukraine into announcing an investigation that they were the source of Russian election meddling by not selling them military gear, after Russia annexed the Crimea from the Ukraine, isn't their guy? The guy who didn't listen to any intelligence briefings that the Russians were offering the Taliban bounties on American servicemen, and continues to pooh-pooh the story, isn't their guy? The guy who is asking to let them into the G7 isn't their guy? The guy who walked away from Syria creating a power vacuum for Russia to fill isn't their guy?

All due respect, doctor Bwarn, your missing with most of this.
First, look at my original post which referred to Asian,  NOT just Chinese immigrants.

Also, my point was a straw-man.  Why you are talking about how many votes did what in the last election is moot.  Between New York and California there are roughly 2mm Chinese immigrants certainly More than enough to sway a hypothetical election, which was my point about the EC. ( did not even mention North Koreans)

lastly, your theories about “ the guy” are just that. Many, including me, would suggest that the known facts don’t support most of your take.  Of course, you may be right, his political opponents spend roughly 2.5 years and $35mm of taxpayers money trying to prove some of your theory, and obviously fell embarrassingly short.  They also spent another 6-8 months and untold dollars ( estimates are around $6-8mm) trying to prove other parts of your theory, and again fell embarrassingly short.  And the second attempt clearly took everyone’s eye of the ball with respect to the pandemic.

Notice those times frames. That’s right, over 3 years of a 3 3/4 term, they were busy trying their hardest to bring the guy down, yet noticeably absent from literally any other significant accomplishments, or even attempts at them. That doesn’t even include the proof we now have about the efforts to derail him before he was even elected.  These are the same people who did find tons of time and energy to try to derail the life and nomination of a SCOTUS nominee, and his family, based on false accusations with exactly zero evidence.

As for Syria, well you just have to know that a move,like that is going to be criticized by 50% or more, but not making that move would as well. It takes some courage to actually do it.  Besides, all the talking heads said he was going to get us into a war....still waiting on that one.

A good case could be made that the guy has been as tough on Russia as the last few who held the office, combined.

So you will have to pardon me, for despite the fact I think he is a pompous, doofus with the worst communication skills I have ever seen in the office, and I don’t like guy one bit, when I look around at the political landscape, I see nobody that can claim superiority or who can say they were fruitful these last almost 4 years. And don’t even start on things a POTUS did or didn’t do that are illegal, or unsavory without going back to the last POTUS...  Cash pallets for hostages, creating vacuums for terrorists, etc...

But Bwarn, I do luv ya man.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on August 04, 2020, 08:07:05 PM
I don't bother with drinking games-- they just slow me down.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 04, 2020, 08:24:19 PM
You were the one who complained the Russians' preferred candidate lost... When most people look at it and believe that their preferred candidate won--and has done some very interesting things to basically lay down at Putin's feet since.

I don't think the campaign colluded with the Russians. So the fact that the Mueller investigation didn't find outright collusion didn't surprise me. It did find obstruction of justice in relation to the administration's response to the investigation. Even so, that was pretty minor in its own right. 

The impeachment basically pointed to POTUS extorting the Ukraine for access to Congressionally-authorized aid in exchange for political favors. At the end of the day, even the Republicans in the Senate were basically "well yeah He totally did it, we're just not going to remove Him for it." If you don't think His sudden interest in the Ukraine was related in SOME way to Russia, I ask where it came from? He's not exactly someone who has taken a lot of interest in the corruption within any other governments. 

The dude's entire MO has been "if you're nice to me, you can do whatever you want, and if you're mean to me, you're PNG in the eyes of my administration." It's never about what's right or wrong, it's about what benefits Him personally. Literally He craps on our democratic allies while never has a bad thing to say about tin-pot dictators elsewhere. He gets "beautiful" letters from North Korea but all our Euro allies are weak.

As it relates to Russia, I can only think of two possible explanations for His behavior:




I'd like to think I'm an even-handed guy, but I think the opponents slogan should be simple: Make America America Again.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 04, 2020, 09:16:46 PM
I never complained.  Sam did by inference.  

You see the world your way, I see it mine.  I would not use “ most people” in some of your views.

It’s all good.  


I conceded that “ the guy” is a POS, but My bigger point, which you seemed to either miss or ignore, is the “ other side” has had nothing to offer but their insane pursuit of the Orange man in their head.  They have done nothing, tried nothing and contributed nothing.   Orange man horrible!!!!!  Ok , so we agree.  But what have they done but waste time and money. ( and tell a lot of lies) 

They don’t get a pass with me. Wasted roles and wasted votes and wasted money.  Every damn one of them.  He is the outsider.  The guy like Badge mentioned who came from public life, and will return. They are all career politicians.  We serve them.  It’s all wrong. And when he leaves it won’t change the fact that they are all worthless politicians.   They will continue to screw up, and will blame him for as long as they can, but they can’t play that card forever.  These are people who think the best thing that has happened is the pandemic, since that will finally get them back the power they so crave.  They barely try to hide that. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 04, 2020, 10:16:04 PM
Yeah, we're on different planets.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 04, 2020, 10:20:25 PM
Fixed it, meant conservative (red, because they don't want liberals to be labeled as red).

Confusing.
That red-blue thing switched at some point in the '80s.  Republicans were true-blue and Democrats were red like the commies they made excuses for when the alternative was someone like (shudder!) Barry Goldwater.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 04, 2020, 10:30:24 PM
Sure, though popular support can seem to swing wildly. For example, in recent history just look at how we've viewed kneeling for the national anthem, or legalizing gay marriage. While there is no question people worked very hard on those issues, to some extent it's just people being confronted with a new idea and realizing it's fine despite initial reservations.

The EC seems like something that could be like that. Some people's vote counting more than others is dumb. Candidates ignoring half the states is dumb. Call me an optimist but we will eventually hit less dumbness in our system.
Many of the anti-democratic features we've been discussing work precisely to slow down any response to those wild swings in public opinion.  I would say that is a good thing.
IMO, the EC is not "dumb."  That would imply that it doesn't accomplish anything that it was designed to accomplish.  But that is not the case.
Is it crystal-clear exactly how presidential candidates would campaign without the EC, and how that would somehow empower more voters, as opposed to empowering the producers of imaginary votes like those in Cook County, IL, when elections are close and additional votes are needed?
I'm sure there are many non-EC scenarios in which some voters would have as little incentive to vote as they do now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 04, 2020, 10:35:02 PM
Fair enough.

I still don't really trust state governments and probably feel the people's vote is probably a better route, that is what it is. Maybe it would be better, maybe it would just be a different kind of sliminess. Who is to say?
I'm curious why you would put greater trust in the national government which is so much larger, farther away, and harder for you to influence than the state government.
Progressives distrusted state governments just like they distrusted political parties.  Just like most of them distrusted most voters, actually.  But I've never seen a clear explanation of why they thought that devils ran state governments but angels went to "serve" in Washington.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 04, 2020, 10:42:39 PM
I mean, they did hold people as property, which was acknowledged in the constitution. I think it would be fair to say this country got in some ways better when that stopped.
It's interesting.  You know this, of course, but slavery is not mentioned by name in the Constitution.  Slaves were "people held to service."  It's almost like the Framers were ashamed of it.  Actually, the majority of them were.  That was Lincoln's theory, anyway.  And there was the belief (or perhaps wishful thinking) that slavery was dying out and would be insignificant in a generation or two.  That might have been the case had Eli Whitney not invented the cotton gin.
In 1787-88, we didn't have a choice of having a United States with slavery or a United States without slavery.  Our choice was a United States with slavery (with the potential of abolishing it in the future) or no United States.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 04, 2020, 10:45:20 PM

Is it crystal-clear exactly how presidential candidates would campaign without the EC, and how that would somehow empower more voters, as opposed to empowering the producers of imaginary votes like those in Cook County, IL, when elections are close and additional votes are needed?
I'm sure there are many non-EC scenarios in which some voters would have as little incentive to vote as they do now.
I mean, it still just would empower some theoretical producers of imaginary voters, just ones in different places. If you could find a way to be corrupt in Cincinnati Fort Myers, you could swing the presidency. 

It's been interesting because I've lived in one state where candidates go in general elections and three others that only get primary folks. Just strikes me as redistribution. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 04, 2020, 10:46:31 PM
If they thought it was infallible I don't think they would have included an amendment process
That's right.  The amendment process is difficult, but it's been successfully used 27 times.
I don't think the Framers anticipated the degree to which the Constitution would be altered by judicial fiat and by Congress effectively handing over its legislative powers to the Executive Branch.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 04, 2020, 10:51:45 PM
It's interesting.  You know this, of course, but slavery is not mentioned by name in the Constitution.  Slaves were "people held to service."  It's almost like the Framers were ashamed of it.  Actually, the majority of them were.  That was Lincoln's theory, anyway.  And there was the belief (or perhaps wishful thinking) that slavery was dying out and would be insignificant in a generation or two.  That might have been the case had Eli Whitney not invented the cotton gin.
In 1787-88, we didn't have a choice of having a United States with slavery or a United States without slavery.  Our choice was a United States with slavery (with the potential of abolishing it in the future) or no United States.
I mean, we can say they were ashamed, but many still did it. I respect there would've been no US without it. And thus, I believe that what the framers laid out was not perfect. It was a product of its time and it was going to need to evolve. 

OTOH, I will say, if we can make the sixth amendment a thing, I'd gladly go back to that ideal. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 04, 2020, 10:52:13 PM
They have. They came here to flee what many want this country to become.
Maybe many/most of the Chinese who are here came for similar reasons.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 04, 2020, 10:53:40 PM
No Sam.  Let me give you an example of a real life conspiracy theory. I see this on average once or twice a week:

1. Media reports major problem with mail in balloting. Other Media outlets join in and discuss
2.  POTUS says there is major problem with mail in voting
3. Conspiracy theory born and spread..”POTUS” suppressing vote by discussing challenges of mail in voting POTUS fear mongering.
lol.  That’s a conspiracy theory.
my post was just an example of something that could happen.
Add this: POTUS is coincidentally screwing around with the USPS's ability to handle mail-in ballots.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 04, 2020, 10:55:40 PM
I'm curious why you would put greater trust in the national government which is so much larger, farther away, and harder for you to influence than the state government.
Progressives distrusted state governments just like they distrusted political parties.  Just like most of them distrusted most voters, actually.  But I've never seen a clear explanation of why they thought that devils ran state governments but angels went to "serve" in Washington.
I don't put much trust in the national government, but I don't mind when a more general electoral system has a direct tie to the people. That's just me. I think direct mechanisms aren't bad. 

It's not really a matter of trusting national over state. It's a matter of trusting the people over the state government with one sixth of the three branches. And perhaps I don't trust the people all that much (I don't), but I trust most state governments less. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 04, 2020, 11:00:38 PM
I conceded that “ the guy” is a POS, but My bigger point, which you seemed to either miss or ignore, is the “ other side” has had nothing to offer but their insane pursuit of the Orange man in their head.  They have done nothing, tried nothing and contributed nothing.  Orange man horrible!!!!!  Ok , so we agree.  But what have they done but waste time and money. ( and tell a lot of lies)

They don’t get a pass with me. Wasted roles and wasted votes and wasted money.  Every damn one of them.  He is the outsider.  The guy like Badge mentioned who came from public life, and will return. They are all career politicians.  We serve them.  It’s all wrong. And when he leaves it won’t change the fact that they are all worthless politicians.  They will continue to screw up, and will blame him for as long as they can, but they can’t play that card forever.  These are people who think the best thing that has happened is the pandemic, since that will finally get them back the power they so crave.  They barely try to hide that.
So the first part interests me because that's in essence been the role of a party without the White House but with a house of congress. For six years before the current guy walked in, the policy was mostly obstruction. And in some folks' minds, that's probably a good thing. Often folks prefer a slower moving government. The fellow who looks like a turtle wouldn't help Barry, and the other side likely won't help the current guy. Way of the wold.

The second part makes me wonder about the thoughts on the 17th amendment. "They are all career politicians.  We serve them.  It’s all wrong. And when he leaves it won’t change the fact that they are all worthless politicians." I assume that speaks somewhat to both sides, and I'd assume longtime folks in state gov aren't worlds better. So why would one say that group should be vested with control of half of congress. So they can pick or choose their men and women in those roles?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 04, 2020, 11:01:19 PM
I mean...have you seen the president?  Comical and amateurish is all the rage these days.
My brother, who is not crazy, believes that Trump entered the race in late-2015/early-2016 at the behest of, or on the suggestion of, his friends the Clintons, for the purpose of destroying the Republican party and discrediting conservatism for a generation.
And then the totally unexpected thing happened--he won!
It seems far-fetched, but, if it were true, would he have behaved any differently than he has?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 04, 2020, 11:08:12 PM
IN full disclosure, my wife is an immigrant.
My wife's grandparents were all immigrants.  Ukrainian Jews fleeing the pogroms.  Some of their brothers and sisters didn't make it.  They were so happy and grateful to have made it to the Land of Hope.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 04, 2020, 11:16:20 PM
I mean, it still just would empower some theoretical producers of imaginary voters, just ones in different places. If you could find a way to be corrupt in Cincinnati Fort Myers, you could swing the presidency.

It's been interesting because I've lived in one state where candidates go in general elections and three others that only get primary folks. Just strikes me as redistribution.
The folks in Cook County have had more and longer practice at it.  As have some rural counties in Texas where in the past there have been more votes counted than registered voters.
Ever heard of "Landslide Lyndon"?
I absolutely do not understand what you are saying in your second paragraph.  Did you omit some words?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 04, 2020, 11:19:31 PM
I mean, we can say they were ashamed, but many still did it. I respect there would've been no US without it. And thus, I believe that what the framers laid out was not perfect. It was a product of its time and it was going to need to evolve.

OTOH, I will say, if we can make the sixth amendment a thing, I'd gladly go back to that ideal.
IMO, perfection in a human instrument is impossible.
Our adherence to the 6th Amendment is not perfect, but it's a lot better than it was 50 or 60 years ago.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 04, 2020, 11:21:51 PM
I don't put much trust in the national government, but I don't mind when a more general electoral system has a direct tie to the people. That's just me. I think direct mechanisms aren't bad.

It's not really a matter of trusting national over state. It's a matter of trusting the people over the state government with one sixth of the three branches. And perhaps I don't trust the people all that much (I don't), but I trust most state governments less.
But "the people" elect the state governments.  And state governments are generally more "democratic" than is the federal government.  Elected judges and state supreme court justices is an example.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 05, 2020, 12:04:36 AM
The folks in Cook County have had more and longer practice at it.  As have some rural counties in Texas where in the past there have been more votes counted than registered voters.
Ever heard of "Landslide Lyndon"?
I absolutely do not understand what you are saying in your second paragraph.  Did you omit some words?
To the first part, so would we argue swing states are relatively free of someone putting thumbs on scales?

The second paragraph was basically meant to say this, in general elections, candidates go to Wisconsin (most of the time), Ohio and Florida. They don't go to Ca. or Georgia for the most part. So if they go to places with more people rather than places with people whose votes are considered more valuable, it just strikes me as redistributing empowerment rather than creating more empowerment. And if the end point is rural Ohio folks deserve more focus than rural folks from the Dakotas, I guess that is what it is. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 05, 2020, 12:05:08 AM
IMO, perfection in a human instrument is impossible.
Our adherence to the 6th Amendment is not perfect, but it's a lot better than it was 50 or 60 years ago.
It is impossible, and thus we and our governments evolve.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 05, 2020, 12:16:00 AM
But "the people" elect the state governments.  And state governments are generally more "democratic" than is the federal government.  Elected judges and state supreme court justices is an example.
That second part is true, but electing senators directly remains more "democratic" than leaving it up to pols. 

My assumption is most pols will leverage things to their benefit. That might be the Daley machine loading up ballot boxes. That might be Wisconsin's gerrymandering mess. And I assume that the pols running my state or my former state are going to find some way to leverage the power of selecting senators rather than do what they think is best for the state. 

Now the masses may be all sorts of stupid and send the same folks over and over again, but it strikes me as a more honest way for the system to work. I don't think everyone needs to be voted in. I'm kinda so-so on it happening with judges or education leaders and some others. But I don't see senators as that specialized. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 05, 2020, 12:55:37 AM
To the first part, so would we argue swing states are relatively free of someone putting thumbs on scales?

The second paragraph was basically meant to say this, in general elections, candidates go to Wisconsin (most of the time), Ohio and Florida. They don't go to Ca. or Georgia for the most part. So if they go to places with more people rather than places with people whose votes are considered more valuable, it just strikes me as redistributing empowerment rather than creating more empowerment. And if the end point is rural Ohio folks deserve more focus than rural folks from the Dakotas, I guess that is what it is.
No, I was jesting with the comments about Cook County, etc.  Pols are crooks for the most part.  They want money, and/or they have other desires--for sex or for power over their fellow citizens--that being in politics lets them satisfy.  That's why the Constitution placed such limits on them, and why the checks and balances so that their crookedness might cancel out the crookedness of the other ones.  But you believe that one of the checks on their crookedness--Senators being elected differently than Representatives--being removed was a good thing.
Again, I don't understand why you trust the U.S. Congress more than you trust your state legislature.  The same "people" elect the members of both.
I didn't follow that you were talking about what candidates for the presidency do.  Now I see.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2020, 05:22:12 AM
Add this: POTUS is coincidentally screwing around with the USPS's ability to handle mail-in ballots.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hillary-clinton-republican-sabotage-usps-trump-strategy

Thanks CW. Another great example. I call this one Hillary Conspiracy Theory #26
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 05, 2020, 06:14:56 AM
I'm just glad I don't have to quarter troops, except in time of war.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 05, 2020, 07:24:36 AM
In this case, what would you describe as the purpose of the EC?
I believe this has already been discussed ad nauseam. 

But once again, we live in a Representative Republic, not a pure democracy. The founders believed that a direct election of the President through a popular vote (i.e. purely Democratic), would cause Presidents to ignore the smaller states in favor of the large population centers. The EC gives small states some say in the election of the President. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2020, 08:41:05 AM
No, I was jesting with the comments about Cook County, etc.  Pols are crooks for the most part.  They want money, and/or they have other desires--for sex or for power over their fellow citizens--that being in politics lets them satisfy.  That's why the Constitution placed such limits on them, and why the checks and balances so that their crookedness might cancel out the crookedness of the other ones.  But you believe that one of the checks on their crookedness--Senators being elected differently than Representatives--being removed was a good thing.
Again, I don't understand why you trust the U.S. Congress more than you trust your state legislature.  The same "people" elect the members of both.
I didn't follow that you were talking about what candidates for the presidency do.  Now I see.
It's Crook County, OK? Get it right already.

I should know. I just fled it after 53 years there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2020, 08:46:40 AM
Michael Madigan (D-Chicago) has been the IL house speaker since 1983 (sans the 2 years when republicans had control (!).

I would not trust him to put a senator in office, although he managed to get one in with his muscle and corruption. But that guy (D-Chicago) quickly abandoned the senate role and ran for president, and, unfortunately, he won. Took Chicago to Washington.

Anyway, the Feds just indicted ComEd (power company) on corruption charges, and they have agreed to cooperate. They already paid a $200 Million fine. Michael Madigan is identified as "public official A" in the indictment.

They are finally gonna take the MF'er down.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 05, 2020, 09:21:27 AM
Add this: POTUS is coincidentally screwing around with the USPS's ability to handle mail-in ballots.
what exactly is he doing CW

I see this said a lot but nobody explains why its said
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2020, 10:27:14 AM


If I had to live in another country Id pick New Zealand


Immigration is very tough there. You have to prove yourself useful to them to be allowed in.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 05, 2020, 10:38:05 AM
Immigration is very tough there. You have to prove yourself useful to them to be allowed in.



wrong thread but what the hell

Im useful 

I can drink beer and sheer sheep no problem
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2020, 10:47:39 AM
I chose to move the conversation on that to here, because the other thread is for virus discussions.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2020, 10:48:53 AM
I wondered how this would shake out. Now we know. It's gonna work, it seems. From the Chicago Trib:

Early one morning last week, a Chicago police sergeant spotted a red Pontiac stopped at an intersection in the Gresham neighborhood as traffic signals cycled from red to green and other vehicles drove around it.
 
The sergeant approached the Grand Prix to find Timothy Richardson asleep behind the wheel. When Richardson woke up and moved his legs to comply with commands to step out of the vehicle, a loaded Glock pistol with an extended magazine and laser sight allegedly fell to the floorboard with a clunk.
 
The July 28 incident was allegedly captured on the sergeant’s body camera. Richardson, 24, a twice-convicted felon who was barred from possessing firearms, was arrested and questioned by law enforcement before being charged with weapons offenses.
But it wasn’t Chicago police who interviewed Richardson — it was federal agents. And instead of being processed by the Cook County state’s attorney’s office, Richardson was charged later that day by the U.S. attorney’s office with a federal count of illegal possession of a firearm by a felon, court records show.
 
A suspect being charged federally in a gun case in and of itself isn’t new. But the case against Richardson is the latest example in a growing trend in which gun arrests made by Chicago police are being handled upfront by federal authorities — who ordinarily might deliberate for weeks or even months to decide whether to take a case from state prosecutors.
 
The U.S. attorney’s office already has a gun crimes prosecution team that has embedded assistant U.S. attorneys in police districts on the South and West sides of the city to try and disrupt the cycle of violence in those neighborhoods.
 
But the effort has been stepped up significantly in recent weeks as civil unrest over the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis coupled with a wave of gun violence brought Chicago back into national headlines and drew the attention of the Trump administration, several law enforcement sources have told the Chicago Tribune.
 
The scope of the renewed federal push was being held close to the vest, but it has seemingly intensified once again as President Donald Trump recently sent more federal agents here in an expansion of what has been dubbed “Operation Legend,” which has seen leaders of the U.S. attorney’s office, the FBI and Chicago police trumpet their increased cooperation.
 
Gun violence has spiked this summer to levels not seen in years, claiming victims as young as 1 year old. Earlier this month a shooting outside a funeral home saw 15 people wounded — the worst mass shooting in recent Chicago memory. Some sources said an increase in the amount of federal resources paying attention to Chicago violence was likely to naturally lead to more federal prosecutions.
 
But the concerted push has apparently led to some confusion within the Cook County state’s attorney’s office, which has historically handled the vast majority of Chicago gun felonies.
 
On July 25, just two days after Trump’s Operation Legend announcement, an email sent by a high-ranking prosecutor to attorneys in the Felony Review Unit said Chicago police would be taking all gun arrests to federal agents first, giving them the right of first refusal in deciding whether to bring charges.
 
State prosecutors were directed to consider charging a gun case only if federal prosecutors had declined it, according to the email, which was obtained by the Tribune. They were instructed to learn from police the name of the federal agent who declined charges, then reach out to that agent to find out why.
 
It would have been a marked change from the practice that has been standard for years, in which police bring cases to county prosecutors first before federal partners determine where the cases ultimately land.
 
“We do not yet have a time frame for when this will begin, but will keep you informed as this fluid situation continues to unfold,” the email read.
 
But the strict policy was apparently never put into place. A statement from State’s Attorney Kim Foxx’s office Tuesday said they “considered a change in how gun cases would be reviewed” but ultimately changed nothing.
 
“After further evaluation, we did not change our felony review procedure and continue to review all matters brought to us by CPD. Information regarding charged cases is shared with the US Attorney’s office to determine if federal offenses are appropriate,” the statement read.
 
Separately, Foxx has said of the federal officers’ increased presence in Chicago that “we will take help, but with skepticism, and only where it is appropriate.”
In a statement, a spokesman for the U.S. attorney’s office in Chicago said their office works “directly with Chicago Police officers and federal agents to charge firearm cases quickly and efficiently.”
 
“With the additional resources of Operation Legend, we are striving to further enhance the effectiveness of our federal firearm prosecutions,” stated the email from Joseph Fitzpatrick.
 
Foxx also may have limited ability to interfere with the push, as some cases were being handled by federal authorities directly — essentially bypassing her office.
Tom Ahern, a CPD spokesman, would only say the department would be continuing its “long-standing partnership” with both Cook County and federal prosecutors on such gun cases.
 
The reasons to charge a defendant in federal court vary, but prosecutors generally promote it as a tool to get the city’s most violent, repeat offenders off the street instead of putting them back into the Cook County justice system. The potential penalties also are typically much tougher.
 
Not only does the federal charge of unlawful possession of a weapon by a felon carry a maximum 10-year prison sentence, defendants must serve 85% of their sentence, instead of being eligible for day-for-day credit in the state system.
 
If a defendant has previously been convicted of three or more violent felonies, federal prosecutors can seek an enhanced, mandatory minimum sentence of 15 years behind bars, or up to life.
 
Defendants convicted at the federal level also may wind up serving their time in faraway states, which tough-on-crime advocates have long said can act as a deterrent in and of itself.
 
Gun cases charged by federal prosecutors over the past five weeks would seem to reflect the shift. Since July 1, out of 15 cases charging a felon with a firearm in U.S. District Court, eight were charged by complaint, meaning they came straight to the federal system instead of prosecutors incurring a delay by seeking an indictment, which typically occurs some time after an arrest.
 
On the same day Richardson was arrested, for example, federal prosecutors charged a second man, Laderek Townes, with illegal possession of a firearm stemming from a traffic stop by Chicago police on the West Side.
 
According to court records, officers approached a gray Ford sedan in the 4000 block of West Van Buren Street at 1:16 a.m. Tuesday because it was parked more than a foot from the curb.
 
While officers spoke to the driver, Townes, who was in the back seat, tried to kick a fanny pack under the driver’s seat, the charges alleged. After handcuffing Townes, officers found a loaded 9 mm Smith & Wesson in the pack with a bullet in the chamber.
 
As the officers tried to place Townes into a squad car, he allegedly “kicked off” the vehicle with his feet and head-butted an officer in an attempt to flee, the charges alleged.
 
As in Richardson’s case, Townes was interviewed at a Chicago police station by agents with the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, who swore out the complaint to a federal prosecutor. Townes’ criminal history includes state convictions for heroin trafficking and armed habitual criminal, the complaint stated.
 
Richardson, meanwhile, was convicted in Cook County in 2014 of robbery and sentenced to two years of probation, records show. In 2017, Richardson was sentenced to four years in state prison after being convicted in Cook County of unlawful possession of a weapon by a felon, records show.
 
The criminal complaint filed in U.S. District Court stated that when Richardson was interviewed by ATF agents shortly after his arrest, Richardson acknowledged that he owned the Pontiac, but said that the gun did not belong to him.

Richardson told the agents that he’d “driven unknown individuals in his vehicle from a party” earlier that morning and that “one of those individuals may have left the firearm in the car,” the complaint stated.
 
County prosecutors likely will continue to handle the vast majority of Chicago gun felonies.
 
And it remains to be seen whether the shift toward more aggressive federal prosecution will have any impact on the so-called “revolving-door” bonds that critics including Chicago police Superintendent David Brown have pointed to as a cause of violence. Cook County officials recently have made significant efforts to reform the bond system to ensure that defendants are not kept in jail simply because they cannot afford to get out before their cases are resolved.
 
Richardson was released on his own recognizance after an initial hearing on his federal charge Wednesday before U.S. District Judge Young Kim, court records show. But Townes was ordered held in custody pending trial.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 05, 2020, 10:59:20 AM
Sounds like a clusterf***
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2020, 11:00:32 AM
Sounds like a clusterf***
That's what Chicago has already. The feds are trying to help fix it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 05, 2020, 11:04:41 AM
I wondered how this would shake out. Now we know. It's gonna work, it seems. From the Chicago Trib:





If the local folks would do their job the Feds wouldnt be needed
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on August 05, 2020, 11:32:26 AM
IMO, perfection in a human instrument is impossible.
Our adherence to the 6th Amendment is not perfect, but it's a lot better than it was 50 or 60 years ago.
Personally I would like for us to give more than lip service to the 10th amendment.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 05, 2020, 12:29:17 PM
That second part is true, but electing senators directly remains more "democratic" than leaving it up to pols.

My assumption is most pols will leverage things to their benefit. That might be the Daley machine loading up ballot boxes. That might be Wisconsin's gerrymandering mess. And I assume that the pols running my state or my former state are going to find some way to leverage the power of selecting senators rather than do what they think is best for the state.

Now the masses may be all sorts of stupid and send the same folks over and over again, but it strikes me as a more honest way for the system to work. I don't think everyone needs to be voted in. I'm kinda so-so on it happening with judges or education leaders and some others. But I don't see senators as that specialized.
I think with this, you're arguing about a mechanism without recognizing that the mechanism creates a MUCH bigger change than simply who selects the Senate. It changes who the Senate is answerable to.

Prior to the 17th Amendment, the Senators were answerable to their state legislatures. State legislatures often want to keep power for themselves, rather than be told by the United States Congress what to do. So Senators had a vested interest [by answering to state legislatures] to not allow the Federal government to usurp powers that the states believed were their own. If the Senators consistently tried to give state powers to the Feds, the state legislatures they would not be returned for their next term. 

The Progressives wanted a bigger more powerful federal government. They viewed the Senators being answerable to state legislatures rather than voters to be an impediment to that, and wrapped their argument for change that the current system was anti-democratic. But the goal wasn't the mode of election, the goal was to break down the Senate's incentive to keep power out of the hands of the Federal government. 

Most voters didn't make the distinction between state powers and federal powers, and therefore direct election of senators DIRECTLY led to more and more power finding its way to Washington DC instead of state capitols. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 05, 2020, 12:33:03 PM
Immigration is very tough there. You have to prove yourself useful to them to be allowed in.



They weren't so picky when the Imperial Japanese Forces were threatening to over run them.About 1 million GIs ended up in Australia/NZ (ANZAC)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 05, 2020, 12:39:30 PM
They weren't so picky when the Imperial Japanese Forces were threatening to over run them.About 1 million GIs ended up in Australia/NZ (ANZAC)
yep theres a lot of countries falling into that category

the Philippines comes to mind
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 05, 2020, 12:41:00 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hillary-clinton-republican-sabotage-usps-trump-strategy

Thanks CW. Another great example. I call this one Hillary Conspiracy Theory #26
Mail seems to be getting weirdly slow. Took two weeks to get a letter from my mom, which normally took a couple days. It's not hard to suspect corruption, and our ever riding charge towards being a shithole country. We can't even get our ballots in through the mail. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 05, 2020, 12:41:15 PM
I chose to move the conversation on that to here, because the other thread is for virus discussions.


Just a differnt type of sickness
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 05, 2020, 12:43:30 PM
I believe this has already been discussed ad nauseam.

But once again, we live in a Representative Republic, not a pure democracy. The founders believed that a direct election of the President through a popular vote (i.e. purely Democratic), would cause Presidents to ignore the smaller states in favor of the large population centers. The EC gives small states some say in the election of the President.
I'd like to see the Venn diagram of those who support the electoral college and affirmative action.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 05, 2020, 12:43:39 PM
Our armed forces were not immigrants obviously, so the analogy is flawed.  My Dad spent a bit of time in NZ.

There is a key difference between a visitor and a person who aims to stay for a longer period of time.  In the Schengen Zone, you can stay legally for 180 days (I think) and then you need to leave, and only for visitation, and some minor business stuff.

This is why they check you when you depart, you go through (e)immigration once again.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 05, 2020, 12:45:11 PM
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/03/13/a-majority-of-americans-continue-to-favor-replacing-electoral-college-with-a-nationwide-popular-vote/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/03/13/a-majority-of-americans-continue-to-favor-replacing-electoral-college-with-a-nationwide-popular-vote/)

(https://i.imgur.com/EC0l4m7.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/drABmXz.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2020, 12:49:32 PM
Mail seems to be getting weirdly slow. Took two weeks to get a letter from my mom, which normally took a couple days. It's not hard to suspect corruption, and our ever riding charge towards being a shithole country. We can't even get our ballots in through the mail.
The USPS is garbage.

I've got a forward in place and I'm still getting mail at my old place. A week later.

But, we can trust them with ballots. No worries.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 05, 2020, 12:55:57 PM
The USPS is garbage.

I've got a forward in place and I'm still getting mail at my old place. A week later.

But, we can trust them with ballots. No worries.
Completely embarrassing. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 05, 2020, 01:02:50 PM
what exactly is he doing CW

I see this said a lot but nobody explains why its said
320: I'm not going to go on a snipe hunt, but if I come across the source I read--probably on The Bulwark--a couple of days ago, I'll post it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 05, 2020, 01:03:24 PM
Immigration is very tough there. You have to prove yourself useful to them to be allowed in.
I think Mexico has a similar policy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 05, 2020, 01:07:31 PM
I think with this, you're arguing about a mechanism without recognizing that the mechanism creates a MUCH bigger change than simply who selects the Senate. It changes who the Senate is answerable to.

Prior to the 17th Amendment, the Senators were answerable to their state legislatures. State legislatures often want to keep power for themselves, rather than be told by the United States Congress what to do. So Senators had a vested interest [by answering to state legislatures] to not allow the Federal government to usurp powers that the states believed were their own. If the Senators consistently tried to give state powers to the Feds, the state legislatures they would not be returned for their next term.

The Progressives wanted a bigger more powerful federal government. They viewed the Senators being answerable to state legislatures rather than voters to be an impediment to that, and wrapped their argument for change that the current system was anti-democratic. But the goal wasn't the mode of election, the goal was to break down the Senate's incentive to keep power out of the hands of the Federal government.

Most voters didn't make the distinction between state powers and federal powers, and therefore direct election of senators DIRECTLY led to more and more power finding its way to Washington DC instead of state capitols.
Very well-said, Bwarb.  Far clearer than my attempts to explain.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 05, 2020, 01:09:24 PM
They weren't so picky when the Imperial Japanese Forces were threatening to over run them.About 1 million GIs ended up in Australia/NZ (ANZAC)
78 years ago, MrNubbz.
People forget.
People here forget that Nazis are bad guys, not saviors of civilization.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 05, 2020, 01:16:12 PM
People here forget that Nazis are bad guys, not saviors of civilization.
Who here apparently has forgotten that?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 05, 2020, 01:31:45 PM
I think with this, you're arguing about a mechanism without recognizing that the mechanism creates a MUCH bigger change than simply who selects the Senate. It changes who the Senate is answerable to.

Prior to the 17th Amendment, the Senators were answerable to their state legislatures. State legislatures often want to keep power for themselves, rather than be told by the United States Congress what to do. So Senators had a vested interest [by answering to state legislatures] to not allow the Federal government to usurp powers that the states believed were their own. If the Senators consistently tried to give state powers to the Feds, the state legislatures they would not be returned for their next term.

The Progressives wanted a bigger more powerful federal government. They viewed the Senators being answerable to state legislatures rather than voters to be an impediment to that, and wrapped their argument for change that the current system was anti-democratic. But the goal wasn't the mode of election, the goal was to break down the Senate's incentive to keep power out of the hands of the Federal government.

Most voters didn't make the distinction between state powers and federal powers, and therefore direct election of senators DIRECTLY led to more and more power finding its way to Washington DC instead of state capitols.
That's a good clean way to describe it. I guess my answer is that I prefer the one mechanism to the other and am generally neutral about the state/federal government dynamic. I am distrustful of either arrangement. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2020, 01:50:09 PM
I think Mexico has a similar policy.
Ironically enough, they do. If you have money, they'll let you in.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 05, 2020, 01:53:42 PM
320: I'm not going to go on a snipe hunt, but if I come across the source I read--probably on The Bulwark--a couple of days ago, I'll post it.
Thats great Im very interested in seeing this

You know snipes for the joke of snipe hunting dont really exist right?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2020, 02:21:21 PM
Mail seems to be getting weirdly slow. Took two weeks to get a letter from my mom, which normally took a couple days. It's not hard to suspect corruption, and our ever riding charge towards being a shithole country. We can't even get our ballots in through the mail.
Thankfully.  Why anyone would pretend mail in ballots is a good idea escapes me.   And/ I did say pretend. 

I think we all know what’s up. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 05, 2020, 02:23:12 PM
Who here apparently has forgotten that?
Sorry about the unclear preposition.  In parts of the USA, sad to say.

I was setting that in comparison to New Zealand not remembering WWII.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 05, 2020, 02:24:41 PM
Thats great Im very interested in seeing this

You know snipes for the joke of snipe hunting dont really exist right?
What?  You never found the snipe you were hunting?!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 05, 2020, 02:26:19 PM
 (https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJwlUEFuxCAMfM1yjIAlAQ4cKlV9Qe8RASeLSiACs6v09SVdyYexNfZ4xlmELZfTHLkiaRXKHLwRXN8lk6Qjz9SoSKjzWgB2G6LB0oAcbYnBWQw5XQt8HJkmD7OsVAompfarVOAmO41aayWU0wv3d0Eumdk2HyA5MDnF8_8wieaBeNTb_ePGv3rhKyBCGVzee1fAxs-cbPTfpe1Hn1S02GoHjGs6aS4nNclRUyYEJcFwyilVdGSM3oUe2KBcEc_1lz0Z3gTdNz7UtvQj7ueSIMUUm_ywlLBttRPq4raYFxuHBHiZnTtrbyngOUOySwT_zgHfwf3bwvMAk-BVI1y_v4c9HMVGxSXpgj73BJPZc0khbT7Uw6J7_AHpfYMt)
Quote
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Whether you call it Vote by Mail or Absentee Voting, in Florida the election system is Safe and Secure, Tried and True. Florida’s Voting system has been cleaned up (we defeated Democrats attempts at change), so in Florida I encourage all to request a Ballot & Vote by Mail! #MAGA (https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJwlUEFuxCAMfM1yjIAlAQ4cKlV9Qe8RASeLSiACs6v09SVdyYexNfZ4xlmELZfTHLkiaRXKHLwRXN8lk6Qjz9SoSKjzWgB2G6LB0oAcbYnBWQw5XQt8HJkmD7OsVAompfarVOAmO41aayWU0wv3d0Eumdk2HyA5MDnF8_8wieaBeNTb_ePGv3rhKyBCGVzee1fAxs-cbPTfpe1Hn1S02GoHjGs6aS4nNclRUyYEJcFwyilVdGSM3oUe2KBcEc_1lz0Z3gTdNz7UtvQj7ueSIMUUm_ywlLBttRPq4raYFxuHBHiZnTtrbyngOUOySwT_zgHfwf3bwvMAk-BVI1y_v4c9HMVGxSXpgj73BJPZc0khbT7Uw6J7_AHpfYMt)
August 4th 2020
19,460 Retweets81,704 Likes
Quote
(https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJwlUMuOwyAM_JpyjDAhDw4c9rK_EfFwU1QCETitsl-_pJV8GFvjGXucIVxzOfWeK7GjYlmC11KofoKJNeRhHmYW6nIviJsJUVM5kO2HjcEZCjldC2IYQLGHtlJIUBMaZXurBj-KpuR71TsYpDOeXTaLOXzA5FDnFM-PMIv6QbTXW_9zE7-t6B2IsHQub63bsWFrnljSSa2vZOioDYBQfJo5h6kHMUolYGRBCy44n_kAwHupOuhmV-Tr_gcvoJvk2yq6etgm4p6XASu6mOQ7W8K61kao1q0xWxO7hHS9ujTWdqRA54LJ2Ij-mwJ9Y_s8ReeOOuG7Rrwu_w5bNDMMs5hYM_S55Zf0lksKafWh7obc4x_534KZ)
Peter Baker @peterbakernyt
Why is it okay to have mail-in voting in Florida and not elsewhere? Trump: "Florida has a great Republican governor..." (https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJwlUMuOwyAM_JpyjDAhDw4c9rK_EfFwU1QCETitsl-_pJV8GFvjGXucIVxzOfWeK7GjYlmC11KofoKJNeRhHmYW6nIviJsJUVM5kO2HjcEZCjldC2IYQLGHtlJIUBMaZXurBj-KpuR71TsYpDOeXTaLOXzA5FDnFM-PMIv6QbTXW_9zE7-t6B2IsHQub63bsWFrnljSSa2vZOioDYBQfJo5h6kHMUolYGRBCy44n_kAwHupOuhmV-Tr_gcvoJvk2yq6etgm4p6XASu6mOQ7W8K61kao1q0xWxO7hHS9ujTWdqRA54LJ2Ij-mwJ9Y_s8ReeOOuG7Rrwu_w5bNDMMs5hYM_S55Zf0lksKafWh7obc4x_534KZ)
August 4th 2020
6,928 Retweets27,547 Likes
(https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJwlUEFuxCAMfM1yjIAlAQ4cKlV9Qe8RASeLSiACs6v09SVdyYexNfZ4xlmELZfTHLkiaRXKHLwRXN8lk6Qjz9SoSKjzWgB2G6LB0oAcbYnBWQw5XQt8HJkmD7OsVAompfarVOAmO41aayWU0wv3d0Eumdk2HyA5MDnF8_8wieaBeNTb_ePGv3rhKyBCGVzee1fAxs-cbPTfpe1Hn1S02GoHjGs6aS4nNclRUyYEJcFwyilVdGSM3oUe2KBcEc_1lz0Z3gTdNz7UtvQj7ueSIMUUm_ywlLBttRPq4raYFxuHBHiZnTtrbyngOUOySwT_zgHfwf3bwvMAk-BVI1y_v4c9HMVGxSXpgj73BJPZc0khbT7Uw6J7_AHpfYMt)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 05, 2020, 02:31:08 PM
What?  You never found the snipe you were hunting?!
Nope and I have not seen how Trump is attacking the USPS either
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 05, 2020, 02:37:03 PM
I think we all know what’s up.
Yeah, someone is trying to preset the populace to claim the election is rigged when he loses. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 05, 2020, 02:40:42 PM
(https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJwlUEFuxCAMfM1yjIAlAQ4cKlV9Qe8RASeLSiACs6v09SVdyYexNfZ4xlmELZfTHLkiaRXKHLwRXN8lk6Qjz9SoSKjzWgB2G6LB0oAcbYnBWQw5XQt8HJkmD7OsVAompfarVOAmO41aayWU0wv3d0Eumdk2HyA5MDnF8_8wieaBeNTb_ePGv3rhKyBCGVzee1fAxs-cbPTfpe1Hn1S02GoHjGs6aS4nNclRUyYEJcFwyilVdGSM3oUe2KBcEc_1lz0Z3gTdNz7UtvQj7ueSIMUUm_ywlLBttRPq4raYFxuHBHiZnTtrbyngOUOySwT_zgHfwf3bwvMAk-BVI1y_v4c9HMVGxSXpgj73BJPZc0khbT7Uw6J7_AHpfYMt) (https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJwlUEFuxCAMfM1yjIAlAQ4cKlV9Qe8RASeLSiACs6v09SVdyYexNfZ4xlmELZfTHLkiaRXKHLwRXN8lk6Qjz9SoSKjzWgB2G6LB0oAcbYnBWQw5XQt8HJkmD7OsVAompfarVOAmO41aayWU0wv3d0Eumdk2HyA5MDnF8_8wieaBeNTb_ePGv3rhKyBCGVzee1fAxs-cbPTfpe1Hn1S02GoHjGs6aS4nNclRUyYEJcFwyilVdGSM3oUe2KBcEc_1lz0Z3gTdNz7UtvQj7ueSIMUUm_ywlLBttRPq4raYFxuHBHiZnTtrbyngOUOySwT_zgHfwf3bwvMAk-BVI1y_v4c9HMVGxSXpgj73BJPZc0khbT7Uw6J7_AHpfYMt)


(https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJwlUEFuxCAMfM1yjIAlAQ4cKlV9Qe8RASeLSiACs6v09SVdyYexNfZ4xlmELZfTHLkiaRXKHLwRXN8lk6Qjz9SoSKjzWgB2G6LB0oAcbYnBWQw5XQt8HJkmD7OsVAompfarVOAmO41aayWU0wv3d0Eumdk2HyA5MDnF8_8wieaBeNTb_ePGv3rhKyBCGVzee1fAxs-cbPTfpe1Hn1S02GoHjGs6aS4nNclRUyYEJcFwyilVdGSM3oUe2KBcEc_1lz0Z3gTdNz7UtvQj7ueSIMUUm_ywlLBttRPq4raYFxuHBHiZnTtrbyngOUOySwT_zgHfwf3bwvMAk-BVI1y_v4c9HMVGxSXpgj73BJPZc0khbT7Uw6J7_AHpfYMt) (https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJwlUEFuxCAMfM1yjIAlAQ4cKlV9Qe8RASeLSiACs6v09SVdyYexNfZ4xlmELZfTHLkiaRXKHLwRXN8lk6Qjz9SoSKjzWgB2G6LB0oAcbYnBWQw5XQt8HJkmD7OsVAompfarVOAmO41aayWU0wv3d0Eumdk2HyA5MDnF8_8wieaBeNTb_ePGv3rhKyBCGVzee1fAxs-cbPTfpe1Hn1S02GoHjGs6aS4nNclRUyYEJcFwyilVdGSM3oUe2KBcEc_1lz0Z3gTdNz7UtvQj7ueSIMUUm_ywlLBttRPq4raYFxuHBHiZnTtrbyngOUOySwT_zgHfwf3bwvMAk-BVI1y_v4c9HMVGxSXpgj73BJPZc0khbT7Uw6J7_AHpfYMt)Quote
Quote
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Whether you call it Vote by Mail or Absentee Voting, in Florida the election system is Safe and Secure, Tried and True. Florida’s Voting system has been cleaned up (we defeated Democrats attempts at change), so in Florida I encourage all to request a Ballot & Vote by Mail! #MAGA (https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJwlUEFuxCAMfM1yjIAlAQ4cKlV9Qe8RASeLSiACs6v09SVdyYexNfZ4xlmELZfTHLkiaRXKHLwRXN8lk6Qjz9SoSKjzWgB2G6LB0oAcbYnBWQw5XQt8HJkmD7OsVAompfarVOAmO41aayWU0wv3d0Eumdk2HyA5MDnF8_8wieaBeNTb_ePGv3rhKyBCGVzee1fAxs-cbPTfpe1Hn1S02GoHjGs6aS4nNclRUyYEJcFwyilVdGSM3oUe2KBcEc_1lz0Z3gTdNz7UtvQj7ueSIMUUm_ywlLBttRPq4raYFxuHBHiZnTtrbyngOUOySwT_zgHfwf3bwvMAk-BVI1y_v4c9HMVGxSXpgj73BJPZc0khbT7Uw6J7_AHpfYMt)
August 4th 2020
19,460 Retweets81,704 Likes

Quote

Quote
(https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJwlUMuOwyAM_JpyjDAhDw4c9rK_EfFwU1QCETitsl-_pJV8GFvjGXucIVxzOfWeK7GjYlmC11KofoKJNeRhHmYW6nIviJsJUVM5kO2HjcEZCjldC2IYQLGHtlJIUBMaZXurBj-KpuR71TsYpDOeXTaLOXzA5FDnFM-PMIv6QbTXW_9zE7-t6B2IsHQub63bsWFrnljSSa2vZOioDYBQfJo5h6kHMUolYGRBCy44n_kAwHupOuhmV-Tr_gcvoJvk2yq6etgm4p6XASu6mOQ7W8K61kao1q0xWxO7hHS9ujTWdqRA54LJ2Ij-mwJ9Y_s8ReeOOuG7Rrwu_w5bNDMMs5hYM_S55Zf0lksKafWh7obc4x_534KZ)
Peter Baker @peterbakernyt
Why is it okay to have mail-in voting in Florida and not elsewhere? Trump: "Florida has a great Republican governor..." (https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJwlUMuOwyAM_JpyjDAhDw4c9rK_EfFwU1QCETitsl-_pJV8GFvjGXucIVxzOfWeK7GjYlmC11KofoKJNeRhHmYW6nIviJsJUVM5kO2HjcEZCjldC2IYQLGHtlJIUBMaZXurBj-KpuR71TsYpDOeXTaLOXzA5FDnFM-PMIv6QbTXW_9zE7-t6B2IsHQub63bsWFrnljSSa2vZOioDYBQfJo5h6kHMUolYGRBCy44n_kAwHupOuhmV-Tr_gcvoJvk2yq6etgm4p6XASu6mOQ7W8K61kao1q0xWxO7hHS9ujTWdqRA54LJ2Ij-mwJ9Y_s8ReeOOuG7Rrwu_w5bNDMMs5hYM_S55Zf0lksKafWh7obc4x_534KZ)
August 4th 2020
6,928 Retweets27,547 Likes



so what is your point
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2020, 02:48:28 PM
Yeah, someone is trying to preset the populace to claim the election is rigged when he loses.
Come on.  You really don’t think mail in is a good idea?  It’s just not a credible view.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 05, 2020, 02:51:24 PM
How is mail-in different from absentee balloting, other than in order of magnitude?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 05, 2020, 02:52:55 PM
Quote



so what is your point
That the POTUS is not opposed to mail-in voting in principle and that his opposition--when stated--is all about political posturing and not at all about voting security.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2020, 02:55:09 PM
How is mail-in different from absentee balloting, other than in order of magnitude?
One has to be requested by the voter, checked and identified 

The other is en masse- with little to no control and the order of magnitude is way beyond what could reasonably be handled. 

mars and Venus.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2020, 02:56:15 PM
That the POTUS is not opposed to mail-in voting in principle and that his opposition--when stated--is all about political posturing and not at all about voting security.
Screw POTUS.  Mail in will be a nightmare.  True regardless of who is running. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 05, 2020, 02:57:46 PM
Yeah, someone is trying to preset the populace to claim the election is rigged when he loses.
I wonder if this will become routine, the losing side, whichever, claims it was rigged.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 05, 2020, 02:58:07 PM
Come on.  You really don’t think mail in is a good idea?  It’s just not a credible view. 
I've been permanent vote-by-mail voter since 2014, because I found myself in two consecutive Presidential elections (2008/2012) unable to vote because I was out of the state / out of the country on business travel. I don't think anything about it is inherently fraudulent.

I think it might distort things in states where it is mandated that every voter is sent a mail-in ballot. But even then I doubt there will be much "fraud"; rather what might happen is voter turnout in those states will significantly spike because the inherent time cost of voting will be lessened. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2020, 03:01:21 PM
I've been permanent vote-by-mail voter since 2014, because I found myself in two consecutive Presidential elections (2008/2012) unable to vote because I was out of the state / out of the country on business travel. I don't think anything about it is inherently fraudulent.

I think it might distort things in states where it is mandated that every voter is sent a mail-in ballot. But even then I doubt there will be much "fraud"; rather what might happen is voter turnout in those states will significantly spike because the inherent time cost of voting will be lessened.


Thank you.  That is about where I am at.  Absentee ballots have a track record.

we have the ability to create safe polling places and add more if needs, and leave them open longer or open them days early if need be
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 05, 2020, 03:08:59 PM
Thats great Im very interested in seeing this

You know snipes for the joke of snipe hunting dont really exist right?
we have plenty of snipes in Iowa, come on up and I'll show you how to find them
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 05, 2020, 03:10:25 PM
How is mail-in different from absentee balloting, other than in order of magnitude?
under absentee balloting one sends in an application to be mailed a voting form if the sender is a qualified voter they get mailed the form which has their name on it this form is sent to the address listed on the application

under vote by mail the government just shotguns out blank voter forms to the voter roll folks to the last reported address these forms are generic and anyone could use them

also the absentee forms are gathered weeks ahead of time while the vote by mail forms would flood the mail on election day
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 05, 2020, 03:11:44 PM
I wonder if this will become routine, the losing side, whichever, claims it was rigged.


It hasn't already?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 05, 2020, 03:13:13 PM
Thankfully.  Why anyone would pretend mail in ballots is a good idea escapes me.  And/ I did say pretend.

I think we all know what’s up.
It's not only a good idea, it's a no brainer. We're in a pandemic. We are supposed to be the world's leading democracy, the best nation of them all, and we can't even properly hold an election. There is one word for it. Pathetic.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 05, 2020, 03:15:05 PM
any type of voting can be manipulated

regardless of how anyone votes, mail, in person, on-line, or other - counting the votes can be manipulated

as I stated a few days ago, the US of A should be better at counting votes and making sure they are legitimate votes
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 05, 2020, 03:16:13 PM
A lot of things claimed to  be "no brainers" actually are rather more complex than a superficial "analysis" of the situation suggests.

But many humans like simplicity in such situations.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 05, 2020, 03:17:01 PM
any type of voting can be manipulated

regardless of how anyone votes, mail, in person, on-line, or other - counting the votes can be manipulated

as I stated a few days ago, the US of A should be better at counting votes and making sure they are legitimate votes
some ways are more easy to manipulate then others
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 05, 2020, 03:17:42 PM
A lot of things claimed to  be "no brainers" actually are rather more complex than a superficial "analysis" of the situation suggests.

But many humans like simplicity in such situations.
Sometimes things are actually quite simple. Like vote by mail. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 05, 2020, 03:21:57 PM
some ways are more easy to manipulate then others
agreed
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 05, 2020, 03:23:01 PM
Sometimes things are actually quite simple. Like vote by mail.
doesn't seem all that simple to me
many questions arise
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 05, 2020, 03:24:06 PM
Sometimes things are actually quite simple. Like vote by mail.
simple or complicated is not the main concern here

anybody that knows what vote harvesting is should also know how susceptible vote by mail is to manipulation
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 05, 2020, 03:24:13 PM
One clear issue with any change in voting is that the losers will complain about it.  Happens even with upgrades to voting machines.

I'd like vote by mail to send me back a receipt that my ballot was received and counted, and how often it was counted.  That way if someone intercepts the ballot in either direction, I'd know about it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 05, 2020, 03:26:39 PM
And I think it's fine to OPINE that the US isn't the best country, it's an OPINION.  I don't think there can be some absolute metric.

I think it's the best country for ME personally.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2020, 03:26:51 PM
It's not only a good idea, it's a no brainer. We're in a pandemic. We are supposed to be the world's leading democracy, the best nation of them all, and we can't even properly hold an election. There is one word for it. Pathetic.
No we aren't. We're a Republic.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 05, 2020, 03:27:34 PM
One clear issue with any change in voting is that the losers will complain about it.  Happens even with upgrades to voting machines.

I'd like vote by mail to send me back a receipt that my ballot was received and counted, and how often it was counted.  That way if someone intercepts the ballot in either direction, I'd know about it.
As it happens there is technology to track where your ballot is at any given moment. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 05, 2020, 03:28:18 PM
Sounds complicated.

Anyway, it's merely ONE example of complexity, much like reparations and figuring out who deserves to get them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 05, 2020, 03:28:34 PM
And I think it's fine to OPINE that the US isn't the best country, it's an OPINION.  I don't think there can be some absolute metric.

I think it's the best country for ME personally.
Hey some people opine that Michigan has the best football program so I understand
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2020, 03:28:59 PM

they are not asking you to produce a list of the top 20 or even the top 5
just provide one example of a country that is better than the US of A
None of the 25or so I've been to are better. I should make a list.

I've never been to a lot of countries, obviously, but I'm pretty sure Russia, China, Iran, Iraq, any of the 'Stans, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Syria, any place in Central America and North Korea aren't better. This is a list that could go on and on, as a "no visit" list for me.



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 05, 2020, 03:29:18 PM
Sounds complicated.

Anyway, it's merely ONE example of complexity, much like reparations and figuring out who deserves to get them.
I dunno I would opine mailing something is less complicated than reparations
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2020, 03:30:12 PM
Hey some people opine that Michigan has the best football program so I understand
That's gotten quiet. What has it been? At least 5 years with no "speech" around here?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 05, 2020, 03:31:36 PM
None of the 25or so I've been to are better. I should make a list.

I've never been to a lot of countries, obviously, but I'm pretty sure Russia, China, Iran, Iraq, any of the 'Stans, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Syria, any place in Central America and North Korea aren't better. This is a list that could go on and on, as a "no visit" list for me.

Well you've got 160 others to assess and rank.  Have at it.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 05, 2020, 03:32:09 PM
That's gotten quiet. What has it been? At least 5 years with no "speech" around here?
Dudek was a big flag waver but he seems long gone
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2020, 03:35:24 PM
Sounds complicated.

Anyway, it's merely ONE example of complexity, much like reparations and figuring out who deserves to get them.
I'd rather we figure out who has to pay them.

Nobody in my family ever owned anyone, never will, and never supported it. But that probably goes for 90+ percent of the people in this country??

How about the white supremist people be made to pay the freight? Or how about the countries who sold their own so they could be shipped elsewhere?

Very complicated is right.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2020, 03:39:44 PM
Dudek was a big flag waver but he seems long gone
Hasn't posted since his boys got smashed in Madison. A shame really. I enjoyed him.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2020, 03:40:21 PM
Well you've got 160 others to assess and rank.  Have at it. 
I'd rather you offer up a list of better ones, and why/how.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 05, 2020, 03:44:25 PM
Plausible candidates have been mentioned, places that arguably could work for some of us, if they'd let us immigrate.

Canada, New Zealand, Switzerland, the Nordic countries, Belgium maybe, Australia (where everything wants to kill you) ...

Are those countries "better" than the US?  It's opinion, personal opinion.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2020, 04:04:34 PM
Hey some people opine that Michigan has the best football program so I understand
😂😂. Well played. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2020, 04:12:58 PM
It's not only a good idea, it's a no brainer. We're in a pandemic. We are supposed to be the world's leading democracy, the best nation of them all, and we can't even properly hold an election. There is one word for it. Pathetic.
Well we are in a pandemic and we have figured out how to do lots of things. Going to stores going to the dentist office getting our haircut standing in line distancing etc. etc. etc. we can figure out how to go to polling places and be done safely we have plenty of time. So from that standpoint you are correct in my opinion we are a great country we can figure it out

mail in voting is a horrible idea. We are talking about US Mail here which nobody will claim is accurate and efficient. And while it does open up the possibility of a very easy fraud and manipulation as has been evidenced again and again and again including very recently. the worst fear I have is that it will delay the election results and create a ton of additional divisiveness in this country. 
Do you remember how nasty everybody was during the hanging Chad ordeal?
Well multiply that by 100 when it’s every state, and the country is already polarized. 

If your worried about people not getting an opportunity, double the polling places- leave them open for 2-4 days.  Improves social distancing. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 05, 2020, 04:24:38 PM
yup, if you're too scared to play football this season, opt out

if you're too scared to go to the polls this Nov, either regular absentee ballot or opt out

I don't remember the exact percentage, but half the people that are illegible don't vote anyway.

not a huge deal imo 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 05, 2020, 04:29:27 PM
Of all the dumb arguments we've had on this forum over the decades, this one might take the cake. It's always fun when lack of any objective analysis is combined with blind patriotism. 

So, against my better judgement, I'm going to wade into this and settle it, once and for all, so you can all shut the F up. 

Truth is there is no such thing as "the best country in the world". Doesn't exist. Can't exist. The idea is a figment of our imagination. 

Simple reasons why:



So unless you can determine the measurable metrics to define "best" up front, and to weight them in a way that everyone agrees on, you cannot determine the best country in the world

Now, that doesn't mean that you can't evaluate one country vs another. One way is subjective opinion based on your own inherent weighting. For me, I think the US is at the top of my list. But that might be partly based on having it REALLY good here, probably better in many ways than I'd have it in many other countries. I accept that it's purely subjective. 

Another way to evaluate one country vs another would be a more utilitarian approach, the "most happiness to the most people". For example, I think Germany is pretty objectively a better country than North Korea. Obviously there are a few people that are doing better in NK than they'd be doing in Germany (namely Kim Jong-Un and his ruling clique), but for the bulk of the residents, it's a lot better to be in Germany than in North Korea. However, that approach only really makes sense for wide differences. The US vs Canada vs Australia vs France vs Germany vs Sweden vs the UK is a lot harder, because every single one of those countries has positives and negatives and how you weight each personally may FAR overwhelm the differences in "ranking". 

America's a pretty good place to live. America is not #1 in everything--no nation can be. America may be the best place to live for some of us subjectively, but I'll bet there are a number of people in America who might find Australia or Canada or Germany to be better for them, but don't want to emigrate and give up their families and friends. Their experience and preferences shouldn't be discounted just because they have different weights on what satisfies them.

So you guys jump down OAM's throat because he has the temerity to point out that there are things where the United States is objectively FAR below #1 as if he hates this country and should leave, which is just stupid, on top of being incredibly rude. Despite the fact that the United States is OBJECTIVELY not the best country in the world at those metrics. And then state that the US is the best country in the world without offering a single metric of why other than your own gut feeling, while telling OAM to claim which country is better despite him already offering objective metrics where other countries are better. 

How about we all call it off? The US is a good place to live. A lot of the OECD are good places to live. "Best" is subjective and certain aspects of society in those OECD countries, some which will be better on certain metrics and some which will be worse, is dependent more on how individual people weight those metrics. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 05, 2020, 04:30:39 PM
yup, if you're too scared to play football this season, opt out

if you're too scared to go to the polls this Nov, either regular absentee ballot or opt out

I don't remember the exact percentage, but half the people that are illegible don't vote anyway.

not a huge deal imo
I'm only illegible after a significant quantity of beer. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 05, 2020, 04:31:23 PM
OK, I'll shut the F up
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 05, 2020, 04:42:26 PM
to put it in as simple of terms as possible

absentee voting  the voter has to prove their identity 

mail in voting     the voter does not have to prove their identity 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 05, 2020, 04:50:13 PM
to put it in as simple of terms as possible

absentee voting  the voter has to prove their identity

mail in voting    the voter does not have to prove their identity
I proved my identity when I registered to vote, not when I became a permanent vote-by-mail voter. 

If you're already a registered voter, all you need to do is fill out and mail in an application for vote-by-mail either for a single election or permanently:

https://elections.cdn.sos.ca.gov/vote-by-mail/pdf/vote-by-mail-application.pdf (https://elections.cdn.sos.ca.gov/vote-by-mail/pdf/vote-by-mail-application.pdf)

You'll note that you're asked to sign it and warned that anyone other than the voter him/herself who signs it is committing perjury, but you don't have to provide any information verifying it beyond that. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 05, 2020, 05:00:17 PM
One might imagine the possibility of "bags of mail" discovered after the election hither and yon, perhaps diverted from certain precincts known to vote this way or that.

Heck, you might find bags of mail anyway randomly found hither and yon.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2020, 05:00:39 PM
I'm not going to shut the F up. I love my Republic.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2020, 05:04:57 PM
One might imagine the possibility of "bags of mail" discovered after the election hither and yon, perhaps diverted from certain precincts known to vote this way or that.

Heck, you might find bags of mail anyway randomly found hither and yon.


In my old town, a mail carrier was fired for keeping people's mail to herself.

Right now the Feds are investigating that same post office (Palatine, IL) as checks were being stolen and cashed. My landlord called me for his rent check about two weeks after it was due. I sent it a week early, as always. I found out it got cashed, and it was not by him. My bank let me off when I told them what happened.

This happened to my company as well, and to a few other people and businesses I know.

I don't know if they have found the person yet. I'm sure they have - it's been a couple of months now.

But yeah. USPS. What could go wrong?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 05, 2020, 05:06:41 PM
I proved my identity when I registered to vote, not when I became a permanent vote-by-mail voter.

If you're already a registered voter, all you need to do is fill out and mail in an application for vote-by-mail either for a single election or permanently:

https://elections.cdn.sos.ca.gov/vote-by-mail/pdf/vote-by-mail-application.pdf (https://elections.cdn.sos.ca.gov/vote-by-mail/pdf/vote-by-mail-application.pdf)

You'll note that you're asked to sign it and warned that anyone other than the voter him/herself who signs it is committing perjury, but you don't have to provide any information verifying it beyond that.
wow that should do it problem solved
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 05, 2020, 05:13:22 PM
I really think to vote by mail you'd need at minimum an acknowledgement of receipt and that it was counted by return mail.  I don't know if that is enough, given the lost mail issue.  Lost mail might not be a huge problem, but ANY event of that ilk will cause the loser to claim FOUL.

And I do think operators in BG states might well try and lose some mail from predominantly R or D districts.  All that said, I never have any idea if my vote in person is really counted.  I recall what Stalin said.

I do think confidence in the voting system is a requirement, otherwise we'd have four years or protests, contentious hearings, impeachment proceedings, and Congress wouldn't get anything done ...

.... oh wait.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 06, 2020, 01:09:46 AM
One has to be requested by the voter, checked and identified

The other is en masse- with little to no control and the order of magnitude is way beyond what could reasonably be handled.

mars and Venus.
Any way you can be more specific, HB?  Those sound pretty much like generalizations.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 06, 2020, 01:23:58 AM
I proved my identity when I registered to vote, not when I became a permanent vote-by-mail voter.

If you're already a registered voter, all you need to do is fill out and mail in an application for vote-by-mail either for a single election or permanently:

https://elections.cdn.sos.ca.gov/vote-by-mail/pdf/vote-by-mail-application.pdf (https://elections.cdn.sos.ca.gov/vote-by-mail/pdf/vote-by-mail-application.pdf)

You'll note that you're asked to sign it and warned that anyone other than the voter him/herself who signs it is committing perjury, but you don't have to provide any information verifying it beyond that.
That was about how it went when I was in the Army and absentee balloting.  I was not having to have someone verify my identity every time.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 06, 2020, 01:29:22 AM
I really think to vote by mail you'd need at minimum an acknowledgement of receipt and that it was counted by return mail.  I don't know if that is enough, given the lost mail issue.  Lost mail might not be a huge problem, but ANY event of that ilk will cause the loser to claim FOUL.

And I do think operators in BG states might well try and lose some mail from predominantly R or D districts.  All that said, I never have any idea if my vote in person is really counted.  I recall what Stalin said.

I do think confidence in the voting system is a requirement, otherwise we'd have four years or protests, contentious hearings, impeachment proceedings, and Congress wouldn't get anything done ...

.... oh wait.
Many/most absentee ballots are not counted.  They are only counted if they could affect an election outcome.  If Mr. Green beats Ms. Brown by 1,000 votes, and there are 35 absentee ballots, those ballots will not be counted.
In the 2000 election, there were many thousands (I forget how many) of absentee ballots counted.  Enough so that if every one of them had been for Bush, he would have won the popular vote.  But they certainly weren't all for Bush, and they didn't affect any state or local elections, so they weren't counted.

And the popular vote doesn't matter anyway.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 06, 2020, 07:12:38 AM
Any way you can be more specific, HB?  Those sound pretty much like generalizations.
See bwiarny post above.  I think that works.  There are controls.  

just mailing out ballots to people is not controlled.   Not requested, not registered, not controlled.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 06, 2020, 08:36:30 AM
Many/most absentee ballots are not counted.  They are only counted if they could affect an election outcome.  If Mr. Green beats Ms. Brown by 1,000 votes, and there are 35 absentee ballots, those ballots will not be counted.
In the 2000 election, there were many thousands (I forget how many) of absentee ballots counted.  Enough so that if every one of them had been for Bush, he would have won the popular vote.  But they certainly weren't all for Bush, and they didn't affect any state or local elections, so they weren't counted.

And the popular vote doesn't matter anyway.
sure it does on a state by state bases 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 06, 2020, 09:14:18 AM
I proved my identity when I registered to vote, not when I became a permanent vote-by-mail voter.

If you're already a registered voter, all you need to do is fill out and mail in an application for vote-by-mail either for a single election or permanently:

https://elections.cdn.sos.ca.gov/vote-by-mail/pdf/vote-by-mail-application.pdf (https://elections.cdn.sos.ca.gov/vote-by-mail/pdf/vote-by-mail-application.pdf)

You'll note that you're asked to sign it and warned that anyone other than the voter him/herself who signs it is committing perjury, but you don't have to provide any information verifying it beyond that.
And who is going to be checking all of those signatures? Short answer - NOBODY! 

The problem with vote by mail is that the Board of Elections will be sending ballots to everyone on their registered voter roles. The problem with that is that in most states, those voter roles have not been cleaned up in a number of years. There are people on those roles that have moved or died and will still be getting a ballot, if they even get there and are not lost by the USPS. 

Then let's say I get my vote by mail ballot. What is to prevent me from filling mine out, and while I'm at it, my wife and daughters ballots and my deceased mother in laws ballot that will arrive at my home because this is here last place of residence, and then going to the polling station and voting again? Who would know? They are not going to know at the polling station that I already filled out a ballot. 

And then when thousands of ballots are coming in by mail, who is going to go through each ballot, compare signatures and check to see if they have voted in person? 10 - 15 people? How long before they get tired of comparing signatures before they throw up their hands and say screw it, they're all good or they're all bad? 

Currently, when I vote, I show my ID to the poll worker, then they find my name in their list. At that point, I sign next to my registered signature which at that point is very easy for the worker to compare. At that point, they hand me my ballot. They have verified that it is me, and by signing, they verify that I have not already voted. 

If I request a mail in ballot, I fill out a form, sign it and before they send me the ballot, they compare that signature to my registered signature, make a not on the records that I received a absentee ballot and send it too me. When I get it, I fill it out sign it and send it back. Then what happens is interesting. First, they file it with the other absentee ballots and then possibly NEVER EVEN OPEN IT. If the election(s) being voted on are not within the number of absentee ballots that are received, they are NEVER COUNTED! If they need to be counted, they are opened, verified against the registration, checked to ensure that I have not already voted and then and only then are counted. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 06, 2020, 09:17:35 AM
I really think to vote by mail you'd need at minimum an acknowledgement of receipt and that it was counted by return mail.  I don't know if that is enough, given the lost mail issue.  Lost mail might not be a huge problem, but ANY event of that ilk will cause the loser to claim FOUL.

And I do think operators in BG states might well try and lose some mail from predominantly R or D districts.  All that said, I never have any idea if my vote in person is really counted.  I recall what Stalin said.

I do think confidence in the voting system is a requirement, otherwise we'd have four years or protests, contentious hearings, impeachment proceedings, and Congress wouldn't get anything done ...

.... oh wait. 
I'm actually OK with Congress not getting anything done. For the most part, the only things congress gets done is spending more and more money.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 06, 2020, 09:43:06 AM
I'm actually OK with Congress not getting anything done. For the most part, the only things congress gets done is spending more and more money.
I would like every sitting member expelled so we can start over.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 06, 2020, 09:48:19 AM
I would like every sitting member expelled so we can start over.
I like the guy from Texas with the eye patch. Pretty stand up guy from what I can tell. But yeah, I would trade them all for a new bunch.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 06, 2020, 09:52:53 AM
I would like every sitting member expelled so we can start over.
Lock the Thread,you get a Yuengling 847
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 06, 2020, 10:04:05 AM
I would like every sitting member expelled so we can start over.
I think we'd have many of them simply have their wives replace them, or close associates, brothers, etc.

The name value is so important in elections.  Most folks just check D or R and many "independents" just vote randomly or for whichever name seems familiar.

Joe Johnson, a name you trust.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 06, 2020, 10:16:30 AM
why term limits will do almost no good

just changing names and faces
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 06, 2020, 10:22:50 AM
I recall George Wallace turned it over to Lurleen back in the day, I think.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 06, 2020, 10:54:48 AM
It was never intended to be a ruling class. Serve your time, and go back to work when your time is done. That's what it's supposed to be.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 06, 2020, 10:59:53 AM
Yeah, it was supposed to be more of a civic duty, something unpleasant like jury duty etc., not something folks would strive to do for a career, but that ended quickly.

A lot of things got distorted quickly after GW's Presidency. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on August 06, 2020, 02:43:43 PM
(https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJwlUEFuxCAMfM1yjIAlAQ4cKlV9Qe8RASeLSiACs6v09SVdyYexNfZ4xlmELZfTHLkiaRXKHLwRXN8lk6Qjz9SoSKjzWgB2G6LB0oAcbYnBWQw5XQt8HJkmD7OsVAompfarVOAmO41aayWU0wv3d0Eumdk2HyA5MDnF8_8wieaBeNTb_ePGv3rhKyBCGVzee1fAxs-cbPTfpe1Hn1S02GoHjGs6aS4nNclRUyYEJcFwyilVdGSM3oUe2KBcEc_1lz0Z3gTdNz7UtvQj7ueSIMUUm_ywlLBttRPq4raYFxuHBHiZnTtrbyngOUOySwT_zgHfwf3bwvMAk-BVI1y_v4c9HMVGxSXpgj73BJPZc0khbT7Uw6J7_AHpfYMt) (https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJwlUEFuxCAMfM1yjIAlAQ4cKlV9Qe8RASeLSiACs6v09SVdyYexNfZ4xlmELZfTHLkiaRXKHLwRXN8lk6Qjz9SoSKjzWgB2G6LB0oAcbYnBWQw5XQt8HJkmD7OsVAompfarVOAmO41aayWU0wv3d0Eumdk2HyA5MDnF8_8wieaBeNTb_ePGv3rhKyBCGVzee1fAxs-cbPTfpe1Hn1S02GoHjGs6aS4nNclRUyYEJcFwyilVdGSM3oUe2KBcEc_1lz0Z3gTdNz7UtvQj7ueSIMUUm_ywlLBttRPq4raYFxuHBHiZnTtrbyngOUOySwT_zgHfwf3bwvMAk-BVI1y_v4c9HMVGxSXpgj73BJPZc0khbT7Uw6J7_AHpfYMt)


People seem to not realized what is meant by calling for mail-in ballots.

They are wanting to mail out ballot to everyone and let everything be mailed in. Not verifying that the voter is still at that address, not verifying anything.

What Trump was approving was the use of the absentee ballot, where it is request, people are verified, etc.


EDIT: Ok I am late to the party
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 06, 2020, 02:53:55 PM
People seem to not realized what is meant by calling for mail-in ballots.

They are wanting to mail out ballot to everyone and let everything be mailed in. Not verifying that the voter is still at that address, not verifying anything.

What Trump was approving was the use of the absentee ballot, where it is request, people are verified, etc.


EDIT: Ok I am late to the party

or could it be that they understand the difference but are trying to convince the general voting public that there is no difference
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 06, 2020, 03:36:51 PM
Shockingly, there is nothing on CNN, WaPo or NYT on this shit show. It's no wonder so many progressives won their primaries.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/over-80000-mail-in-ballots-disqualified-in-nyc-primary-mess (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/over-80000-mail-in-ballots-disqualified-in-nyc-primary-mess)


Over 80,000 mail-in ballots disqualified in NYC primary mess

1 out of 4 mail-in ballots were disqualified for arriving late, lacking a postmark or other defects
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 06, 2020, 03:42:51 PM
In other news, the wife is doing pretty well.  She already had PT yesterday, range of motion stuff.  She can mostly put her brace on with little help from me.  My turn is Monday.

My right arm though.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 06, 2020, 03:48:28 PM
1 out of 4 mail-in ballots were disqualified for arriving late, lacking a postmark or other defects

So... Not fraud, just stupidity?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 06, 2020, 03:51:30 PM
So... Not fraud, just stupidity?
I take it you trust election officials in NYC, and trust the USPS.

Got it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 06, 2020, 04:49:17 PM
I take it you trust election officials in NYC, and trust the USPS.

Got it.
As opposed to what? Trusting Florida elected officials? Volunteer poll workers? What is the argument here? It's better for people to stay home and not vote?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 06, 2020, 04:54:06 PM
In-person can be done safely, if it's planned properly. 

Much "safer" than relying on government people who have proven to be incompetent already.

I mean, the claim above states that some ballets weren't counted as they were not postmarked. If they weren't, how the F did they get delivered?

I call BS.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 06, 2020, 04:58:19 PM
ES MOINES — Thousands of qualifying felons in Iowa will be eligible to vote this November thanks to an executive order Gov. Kim Reynolds signed Wednesday that automatically restores their voting rights once they have discharged their sentence or been granted probation or parole.

Making good on a promise, Reynolds signed the order during a Statehouse ceremony that drew state legislators, Black Lives Matter activists and a coalition of groups that have worked since 2011 to restore felons’ right to vote and run for public office.

“I just have to say, yee haw, we did this,” said Betty Andrews, leader of the Iowa-Nebraska NAACP who witnessed the signing in Reynolds’ Capitol formal office. “We understand that there is a lot more to do, but certainly this is a strong step in the right direction. We are looking for more. We will continue to persist.”

Reynolds, an Osceola Republican, signed the order to restore the right to vote to felons who have completed their sentences or have been paroled or placed on probation, and to set up a process where she will daily restore voting rights of eligible felons going forward.


The order does not apply to felons who were convicted under Iowa’s Chapter 707 homicide criminal code section — which includes murder, manslaughter and voluntary manslaughter — nor does it extend voting rights to felons with special lifetime sentences for sexual crimes or other offenses.

Those cases would have to go through the Iowa Board of Parole or separate applications to be considered.

Restoration of voting rights is not contingent on any financial payment, victim restitution or fines, according to the governor’s office. But the executive order does not grant clemency or waive any court-ordered financial obligations, either.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 06, 2020, 05:05:09 PM
In-person can be done safely, if it's planned properly.

So can mail!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 06, 2020, 05:10:24 PM
"No confidence" vote from me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 06, 2020, 05:15:07 PM
"No confidence" vote from me.
But why????? Like the amount of knots you have to tie yourself into to claim there is some vast postal service conspiracy is silly.

That somehow paid professionals can't do the job they do every day, which makes it easier and safer for everybody, is somehow something we should avoid in favor of using volunteers and forcing everybody to stand in long lines during a pandemic. 

Doesn't compute, chief.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 06, 2020, 05:29:50 PM
Shockingly, there is nothing on CNN, WaPo or NYT on this shit show. It's no wonder so many progressives won their primaries.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/over-80000-mail-in-ballots-disqualified-in-nyc-primary-mess (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/over-80000-mail-in-ballots-disqualified-in-nyc-primary-mess)


Over 80,000 mail-in ballots disqualified in NYC primary mess

1 out of 4 mail-in ballots were disqualified for arriving late, lacking a postmark or other defects

(https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/tens-of-thousands-of-mail-ballots-have-been-tossed-out-in-this-years-primaries-what-will-happen-in-november/2020/07/16/fa5d7e96-c527-11ea-b037-f9711f89ee46_story.html)I'm curious why that would lean toward progressives. It's probably not them controlling most of the levers of power. 

I'm trying to recall, but I think some places did longer stretches you could vote. Like a few weeks? I probably should order an absentee ballot, though my polling place is like a 4 minute walk away. Last time they let me vote in the primary I wouldn't usually vote in because there were no contests races on one side. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 06, 2020, 05:43:05 PM
I like the guy from Texas with the eye patch. Pretty stand up guy from what I can tell. But yeah, I would trade them all for a new bunch.
He says some good things.
But he doesn't dare buck the POTUS, even when the POTUS does the exact thing that Rep. Eyepatch has previously condemned.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 06, 2020, 05:57:33 PM
He says some good things.
But he doesn't dare buck the POTUS, even when the POTUS does the exact thing that Rep. Eyepatch has previously condemned.
bang zoom pow pow
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 06, 2020, 06:10:18 PM
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/tens-of-thousands-of-mail-ballots-have-been-tossed-out-in-this-years-primaries-what-will-happen-in-november/2020/07/16/fa5d7e96-c527-11ea-b037-f9711f89ee46_story.html)I'm curious why that would lean toward progressives. It's probably not them controlling most of the levers of power.

I'm trying to recall, but I think some places did longer stretches you could vote. Like a few weeks? I probably should order an absentee ballot, though my polling place is like a 4 minute walk away. Last time they let me vote in the primary I wouldn't usually vote in because there were no contests races on one side.

You're overthinking this. It's very simple:


I've been thinking about it, though... I've read the stories that POTUS was largely running for President for publicity, and on election night 2016 when it started looking like he might win, the mood was "WTF do we do now?!"

A lot of people are worried that when if POTUS loses the election, that he's going to try to hang on to power. I'm not entirely sure he WANTS to be President*. He doesn't seem to want to devote a lot of time or energy to it, given that it's all about boring work instead of tweeting. It doesn't really suit his personality or work ethic. And on top of it, I'm guessing that his handlers are telling him that trying to just keep the White House in the face of a sound electoral defeat isn't going to work. 

So I'm starting to think that all this effort to make people distrust the results of the election aren't necessarily to try to hang on to power. I think it might be to assuage his ego that when he loses, he can actually claim he truly won but the election was rigged. Therefore he's a winner. That allows him to get the heck out of the boring White House gig while retaining his ego. 


* Of course, there is the whole "you don't indict a sitting President" benefit, which just might be enough to make him want to stay in office until he shuffles loose this mortal coil. As terrible as the job is, it's probably better than prison. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 06, 2020, 06:53:54 PM
847 the pied piper for the prez.  Ugh.

DON'T TRUST THE ELECTIONS!

BE AFRAID!

BIDEN HAS LOST IT.....despite Trump's every phrase being word salad.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 06, 2020, 07:41:18 PM
847 the pied piper for the prez.  Ugh.

DON'T TRUST THE ELECTIONS!

BE AFRAID!

BIDEN HAS LOST IT.....despite Trump's every phrase being word salad.
What is wrong with you? Are there
meds you’re supposed to be on that you came off of?

where did 847 say anything about Biden or not trusting the election?

He is just pointing out factual evidence of why male in voting is fraught with major problems even on a smaller scale than a national election. It’s actually very obvious.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 06, 2020, 07:42:57 PM
So can mail!
Nice theory max but it’s never been done. Not even close. Why would anybody with think Millions and millions of ballots can be mailed out and returned in time and that’s with absolutely no validation of who actually filled out the ballot? Total insanity
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 06, 2020, 07:44:17 PM
But why????? Like the amount of knots you have to tie yourself into to claim there is some vast postal service conspiracy is silly.

That somehow paid professionals can't do the job they do every day, which makes it easier and safer for everybody, is somehow something we should avoid in favor of using volunteers and forcing everybody to stand in long lines during a pandemic.

Doesn't compute, chief.
The evidence says he is right and you are wrong. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 06, 2020, 07:47:32 PM
You're overthinking this. It's very simple:

  • First step is to get the populace to distrust voting and election results.
  • Second step is to use that if election results that you don't like occur.

I've been thinking about it, though... I've read the stories that POTUS was largely running for President for publicity, and on election night 2016 when it started looking like he might win, the mood was "WTF do we do now?!"

A lot of people are worried that when if POTUS loses the election, that he's going to try to hang on to power. I'm not entirely sure he WANTS to be President*. He doesn't seem to want to devote a lot of time or energy to it, given that it's all about boring work instead of tweeting. It doesn't really suit his personality or work ethic. And on top of it, I'm guessing that his handlers are telling him that trying to just keep the White House in the face of a sound electoral defeat isn't going to work.

So I'm starting to think that all this effort to make people distrust the results of the election aren't necessarily to try to hang on to power. I think it might be to assuage his ego that when he loses, he can actually claim he truly won but the election was rigged. Therefore he's a winner. That allows him to get the heck out of the boring White House gig while retaining his ego.


* Of course, there is the whole "you don't indict a sitting President" benefit, which just might be enough to make him want to stay in office until he shuffles loose this mortal coil. As terrible as the job is, it's probably better than prison.
Nice conspiracy theory. Wacky as hell with no evidence but nice conspiracy theory.
there really is a thing called Trump derangement syndrome I guess because for a guy who posts so much good factual data this one just seems screwy and off-the-wall.

i’m only guessing but I doubt Trump is worried about a prison cell. Adam Schiff,Nadler, Comey and the rest of them who tampered with the last election and falsified evidence for the collusion investigation might want to be a little worried though.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 06, 2020, 07:50:36 PM
847 the pied piper for the prez.  Ugh.

DON'T TRUST THE ELECTIONS!

BE AFRAID!

BIDEN HAS LOST IT.....despite Trump's every phrase being word salad.
I have nothing against Biden he seems like an OK dude. A 45 year career politician who’s most remarkable accomplishment is… Nothing. He has had only his fair share of scandals and flip flops and gaffes. 

Great strategy to keep him in his basement to make sure that his inability to reason and communicate is not exposed. Why not when you have a big lead because the guy running against is a total dumbass.  Brilliant actually. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 06, 2020, 07:57:51 PM
Nice theory max but it’s never been done. Not even close. Why would anybody with think Millions and millions of ballots can be mailed out and returned in time and that’s with absolutely no validation of who actually filled out the ballot? Total insanity
??  Washington offered absentee ballots to everyone in 1993. Anyone can vote by mail in Florida.  

There is almost no real reason not to do it.  The reasons against all seem to boil down to making sure the people "on the other side" get fewer votes, which is an absolutely miserable reason.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 06, 2020, 08:00:37 PM
??  Washington offered absentee ballots to everyone in 1993. Anyone can vote by mail in Florida. 

There is almost no real reason not to do it.  The reasons against all seem to boil down to making sure the people "on the other side" get fewer votes, which is an absolutely miserable reason. 
Figure out who the “other side“ is. Bus them in. Give them polls open for two weeks. Personally deliver their ballot to them identify them and take their ballot back to the polls. Whatever Hass to be done to make sure that everybody who is eligible to vote and wants to vote does vote.

mail in doesn’t validate anything.  Lol. Where do you think the saying “he just mailed it in” comes from
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 06, 2020, 08:02:42 PM
Figure out who the “other side“ is. Bus them in. Give them polls open for two weeks. Personally deliver their ballot to them identify them and take their ballot back to the polls. Whatever Hass to be done to make sure that everybody who is eligible to vote and wants to vote does vote.

mail in doesn’t validate anything.  Lol. Where do you think the saying “he just mailed it in” comes from
I don't know what any of that means.  Oh my God if we let people vote by mail then...more people might vote?  That's the objection?  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 06, 2020, 08:19:27 PM
I don't know what any of that means.  Oh my God if we let people vote by mail then...more people might vote?  That's the objection? 
you bet more people will vote some will vote many times

your dead grandmother will vote

your Hispanic immigrant housekeeper will vote

lots more will vote
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 06, 2020, 08:20:12 PM
I don't know what any of that means.  Oh my God if we let people vote by mail then...more people might vote?  That's the objection? 
Why are you pretending to not understand when I know you do? The objection is there is absolutely no control over where the ballots go who fills them out and how and when they get returned. In the financial world we call it controls and risk management. It would be an absolute joke an absolute free-for-all benefiting neither side.  Anybody appointed to oversee the integrity of an election that would openly allow massive mail in ballots would be terminated immediately and should be. 
What is so hard about what I said? Who is it that wants to vote that can’t? Why can’t they do an absentee ballot? Why can’t we figure out who they are and make new polling places in their various locations?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 06, 2020, 08:33:50 PM
Why are you pretending to not understand when I know you do? The objection is there is absolutely no control over where the ballots go who fills them out and how and when they get returned. In the financial world we call it controls and risk management. It would be an absolute joke an absolute free-for-all benefiting neither side.  Anybody appointed to oversee the integrity of an election that would openly allow massive mail in ballots would be terminated immediately and should be.
What is so hard about what I said? Who is it that wants to vote that can’t? Why can’t they do an absentee ballot? Why can’t we figure out who they are and make new polling places in their various locations?
Risk management - banks send loan applications out based on little to nothing by the millions. I deposited a check just yesterday, that I received through the mail, by taking a picture of it. 

There is no real reason we can't do this for voting. That we don't is due mostly to corruption and laziness.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 06, 2020, 08:40:08 PM
Risk management - banks send loan applications out based on little to nothing by the millions. I deposited a check just yesterday, that I received through the mail, by taking a picture of it.

There is no real reason we can't do this for voting. That we don't is due mostly to corruption and laziness.
absolutely no comparison but nice try
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 06, 2020, 09:08:03 PM
Risk management - banks send loan applications out based on little to nothing by the millions. I deposited a check just yesterday, that I received through the mail, by taking a picture of it.

There is no real reason we can't do this for voting. That we don't is due mostly to corruption and laziness.
I am all for mobile phone voting.  Is that technology ready to deploy to 120 million Americans all at once?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 06, 2020, 09:11:16 PM
The technology is certainly there. What's missing is the political will.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 06, 2020, 09:32:20 PM
The technology is certainly there. What's missing is the political will.
same thing could be said about all the blue cities allowing the rioters to burn the city down
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2020, 05:44:11 AM
The wife watches the local news, which is about all the network TV I get any exposure to, and of course half the ads, it seems, are political.  My "solution" to political ads is this.

No ad can mention any name other than the person running for office (or the VP in that race).

You can talk all you want about your opponent, but you can't mention his or her name. This would apply to PAC ads.  You can't show his or her photo or refer to him or her at all.

Nearly all the ads are attack ads, because they work, scaring us into voting against, not for.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 07, 2020, 07:48:06 AM
Good looking movie coming out - Judas and The Black Messiah. Badge posts a lot about Chicago violence - this is the story of Fred Hampton, a member of the Black Panther Party, who brokered deals with other gangs to reduce violence.  His reward was being assassinated by the FBI.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSjtGqRXQ9Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSjtGqRXQ9Y)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 07, 2020, 07:49:56 AM
The wife watches the local news, which is about all the network TV I get any exposure to, and of course half the ads, it seems, are political.  My "solution" to political ads is this.

No ad can mention any name other than the person running for office (or the VP in that race).

You can talk all you want about your opponent, but you can't mention his or her name. This would apply to PAC ads.  You can't show his or her photo or refer to him or her at all.

Nearly all the ads are attack ads, because they work, scaring us into voting against, not for.
Lot of 1st amendment issues there, I'm afraid. Plus the point of PACs is they work somewhat independently so they can say they're just some people interested in informing the public one candidate or another eats children. 

Can't legislate people into not being smarmy jackasses, I'm afraid. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 07, 2020, 08:31:50 AM
Why are you pretending to not understand when I know you do? The objection is there is absolutely no control over where the ballots go who fills them out and how and when they get returned. In the financial world we call it controls and risk management. It would be an absolute joke an absolute free-for-all benefiting neither side.  Anybody appointed to oversee the integrity of an election that would openly allow massive mail in ballots would be terminated immediately and should be.
What is so hard about what I said? Who is it that wants to vote that can’t? Why can’t they do an absentee ballot? Why can’t we figure out who they are and make new polling places in their various locations?
Exactly. Regardless of how Trump stumbles through trying to explain why mail in voting is a horrible idea, the fact of the matter is that the way the USPS handles this is the least of the worries.

The big problem is the shotgun approach of blindly mailing out ballots based on voter rolls that have either never been or rarely been purged of dead people or people that have moved from their districts. It kind of makes one wonder why civil rights groups had sued states to prevent voter rolls from being cleaned up. By not cleaning up voter rolls and then shotgun mailing out ballots, one has to wonder WHO will be filling out those ballots. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2020, 08:48:48 AM
Lot of 1st amendment issues there, I'm afraid. Plus the point of PACs is they work somewhat independently so they can say they're just some people interested in informing the public one candidate or another eats children.

Can't legislate people into not being smarmy jackasses, I'm afraid.
Yeah,  I wondered about that.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 07, 2020, 09:11:39 AM
I don't trust the USPS for anything. I trust the people who count votes even less.

Don't like the results... invalid for not being postmarked or arrived too late or not signed.


Shred, rinse, repeat.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2020, 09:20:02 AM
My son remained on our voter rolls for several years.  His name was next to mine.  I mentioned it to them, but they are just volunteers of course and couldn't do anything about it.  Unless the voter rolls are "clean", you'd get quite a few dead people being sent ballots via mail.  And I routinely get mail for the folks who lived here before us.  I get mail for folks who live in different units routinely, 2-3 times a week.

And then there is intentional acts like hiding mail or getting bags of mail the day the ballots are sent out.  It wouldn't take much to manage that in BG states.

I think a LOT of safe guards would need to be devised before I, and many others, would trust a mail result.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 07, 2020, 09:24:20 AM
Nominated for post of the day.

I get mail for my Dad on occasion. We shared the same name. He died in 2012.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 07, 2020, 09:54:48 AM
Nominated for post of the day.

I get mail for my Dad on occasion. We shared the same name. He died in 2012.
Seconded.   

i’m not voting for either of these candidates because I dislike them both. I think that makes me uniquely qualified unbiased.

If the Democrats are so confident of Biden’s popularity and trumps not popularity, which they clearly are and that is represented very well here in this forum, I don’t understand why they’re so concerned about getting mail in ballots out there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 07, 2020, 10:28:11 AM
Say what?


"Unlike the African American community, with notable exceptions, the Latino community is an incredibly diverse community with incredibly different attitudes about different things.”
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 07, 2020, 11:27:47 AM
Say what?


"Unlike the African American community, with notable exceptions, the Latino community is an incredibly diverse community with incredibly different attitudes about different things.”
Going to guess POTUS Is not who is being quoted here otherwise I would’ve seen calls for impeachment and screams of racism for 12 straight hours
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 07, 2020, 11:39:04 AM
Going to guess POTUS Is not who is being quoted here otherwise I would’ve seen calls for impeachment and screams of racism for 12 straight hours
Yeah, I can't believe that this candidate gets a pass* on saying such an outlandish thing!

* "Gets a pass" in this case means such immediate and forceful criticism from his own supporters such that he had to "clarify" his remarks within 24 hours of making them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 07, 2020, 11:44:43 AM
Seconded. 

i’m not voting for either of these candidates because I dislike them both. I think that makes me uniquely qualified unbiased.

If the Democrats are so confident of Biden’s popularity and trumps not popularity, which they clearly are and that is represented very well here in this forum, I don’t understand why they’re so concerned about getting mail in ballots out there.
Because for some people it's not just about imaginary right v. Left battles. We are only a democracy (or republic if you are feeling semantic) to the extent people choose to vote. Of their are dumb roadblocks in the way designer solely to prevent people from participating, it's a sign of being a nonfunctional country. Of you want this country too be the best, you have to do the work.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 07, 2020, 11:46:07 AM
Yeah, I can't believe that this candidate gets a pass* on saying such an outlandish thing!

* "Gets a pass" in this case means such immediate and forceful criticism from his own supporters such that he had to "clarify" his remarks within 24 hours of making them.
This isnt the first time Biden has said something stupid concerning African Americans


"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy," Biden said. "I mean, that's a storybook, man."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 07, 2020, 12:05:17 PM
Because for some people it's not just about imaginary right v. Left battles. We are only a democracy (or republic if you are feeling semantic) to the extent people choose to vote. Of their are dumb roadblocks in the way designer solely to prevent people from participating, it's a sign of being a nonfunctional country. Of you want this country too be the best, you have to do the work.
In your view, what is designed to prevent people from participating ?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 07, 2020, 12:07:21 PM
Yeah, I can't believe that this candidate gets a pass* on saying such an outlandish thing!

* "Gets a pass" in this case means such immediate and forceful criticism from his own supporters such that he had to "clarify" his remarks within 24 hours of making them.
Yes I honestly hadn’t seen that, until 847 posted it.   So I did my usual scan of the six MSN outlets.  He didn’t really need to backtrack because five of the six outlets we’re doing it on his behalf and working very hard to explain but it really wasn’t that bad what he said and also try to explain what he meant LOL. And incidentally that’s the only coverage they gave it to their backtracking for him.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2020, 12:08:57 PM
Any time anyone generalizes about a large group of people, it often ends badly.

I'm against all over generalizations.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 07, 2020, 12:43:54 PM
My son remained on our voter rolls for several years.  His name was next to mine.  I mentioned it to them, but they are just volunteers of course and couldn't do anything about it.  Unless the voter rolls are "clean", you'd get quite a few dead people being sent ballots via mail.  And I routinely get mail for the folks who lived here before us.  I get mail for folks who live in different units routinely, 2-3 times a week.

And then there is intentional acts like hiding mail or getting bags of mail the day the ballots are sent out.  It wouldn't take much to manage that in BG states.

I think a LOT of safe guards would need to be devised before I, and many others, would trust a mail result.
Cleaning up voting rolls has become politically fraught.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2020, 12:50:08 PM
I wondered how they are updated when someone dies who was registered.  I don't think anyone checks the death announcements.  They stay on the rolls, usually not voting, but still listed, for years.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 07, 2020, 01:18:46 PM
My wife called the board of elections shortly after he mom passed away about 6 years or so ago to ensure that she was removed from the voter rolls. I don't remember what all she had to go through, but she did have to provide them with a copy of the death certificate. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2020, 01:22:09 PM
I never thought to call anyone.  I ran into problems a couple times dealing with life insurance because the piece of paper says "Report of Casualty", and interim.

Readily resolved.

I have GS license plates here for which they don't charge an annual fee.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 07, 2020, 02:02:34 PM
Cleaning up voting rolls has become politically fraught.
Saying something is fraught without telling what it is fraught with makes me fraught with anger. :96:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 07, 2020, 02:02:43 PM
In your view, what is designed to prevent people from participating ?
Here is a study on states based on how easy or hard it is to vote.

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/elj.2017.0478

 (https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/elj.2017.0478)This is not a left v. right dichotomy, policies widely vary on all sorts of factors.  For example, is there early voting, is it easy to vote by mail, is voter registration automatic, etc. etc.  We know there are examples of legislatures intentionally trying to prevent poeple from voting.  For example, in North Carolina they came up with a voter ID scheme where they studied what kinds of ID's white and black voters might use and then disqualified the ones black people use more.  That was illegal and was overturned, but in my view, any restriction which makes it more difficult to vote and isn't justified by something pretty substantial is an unacceptable restriction on voting.  Corruption is often the reason - instead of valuing the people, the people in charge value being in charge.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 07, 2020, 02:03:17 PM
I wondered how they are updated when someone dies who was registered.  I don't think anyone checks the death announcements.  They stay on the rolls, usually not voting, but still listed, for years.
Obviously you're not from Chicago.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 07, 2020, 02:12:25 PM
Obviously you're not from Chicago.
I was going to say... I think Old Man Daley is still voting "early and often", and he's been dead for 43 years.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 07, 2020, 02:21:20 PM
Here is a study on states based on how easy or hard it is to vote.

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/elj.2017.0478

 (https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/elj.2017.0478)This is not a left v. right dichotomy, policies widely vary on all sorts of factors.  For example, is there early voting, is it easy to vote by mail, is voter registration automatic, etc. etc.  We know there are examples of legislatures intentionally trying to prevent poeple from voting.  For example, in North Carolina they came up with a voter ID scheme where they studied what kinds of ID's white and black voters might use and then disqualified the ones black people use more.  That was illegal and was overturned, but in my view, any restriction which makes it more difficult to vote and isn't justified by something pretty substantial is an unacceptable restriction on voting.  Corruption is often the reason - instead of valuing the people, the people in charge value being in charge. 
Well of course I would be totally and strongly against anything that makes it hard for a legitimate voter, who really wants to vote, to be able to do so.

i’m not so sure that case in North Carolina could be called a “scheme“ but rather something the courts viewed as having a racial bias not necessarily intentionally. 
I also find it interesting and disappointing that there are things like “IDs that white people normally carry versus IDs that Black people normally carry.”  Shouldn’t there be a baseline on something like that? Any form of government issued identification with a photograph?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 07, 2020, 02:26:59 PM
Here is a study on states based on how easy or hard it is to vote.

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/elj.2017.0478

 (https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/elj.2017.0478)This is not a left v. right dichotomy, policies widely vary on all sorts of factors.  For example, is there early voting, is it easy to vote by mail, is voter registration automatic, etc. etc.  We know there are examples of legislatures intentionally trying to prevent poeple from voting.  For example, in North Carolina they came up with a voter ID scheme where they studied what kinds of ID's white and black voters might use and then disqualified the ones black people use more.  That was illegal and was overturned, but in my view, any restriction which makes it more difficult to vote and isn't justified by something pretty substantial is an unacceptable restriction on voting.  Corruption is often the reason - instead of valuing the people, the people in charge value being in charge. 
your requesting proof that vote by mail is highly subject to fraud

is like asking for proof that blind pilots are highly subject to crashing

there is no proof because blind pilots dont fly planes 

we need to use common sense sometimes and vote by mail is one of those times

now if there was a way to do vote by mail like absentee voting I would feel differently
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on August 07, 2020, 07:16:04 PM
Biden is senile and every time he opens his mouth it's verbal diarrhea. Look at his actions- or lack thereof I should say. Who cares what his words are- that crime bill he always taunts as a great accomplishment of his was racist. Scumbag isn't the right word for the guy. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 07, 2020, 09:06:11 PM

we need to use common sense sometimes 
Could we use it often?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 07, 2020, 09:06:43 PM
Biden is senile and every time he opens his mouth it's verbal diarrhea. 
How would you describe his opponent's utterances?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 07, 2020, 09:12:19 PM
your requesting proof that vote by mail is highly subject to fraud

is like asking for proof that blind pilots are highly subject to crashing

there is no proof because blind pilots dont fly planes

we need to use common sense sometimes and vote by mail is one of those times

now if there was a way to do vote by mail like absentee voting I would feel differently
We can do vote by mail like absentee voting.  That's certainly one option.  My preference would be a much more integrated vote.  We use government resources for various things - getting a driver's license, registering for selective service, using the post office - all of these should be integrated so that being able to vote becomes much easier and much more secure. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 07, 2020, 09:14:40 PM
All citizens should be registered to vote and would have to opt out.  And election day should be a federal holiday.  

More people voting = good for everyone, right?  Right?  RIGHT?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 07, 2020, 09:21:12 PM
All citizens should be registered to vote and would have to opt out.  And election day should be a federal holiday. 

More people voting = good for everyone, right?  Right?  RIGHT?
I like this. I say yes.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 07, 2020, 09:22:31 PM
All citizens should be registered to vote and would have to opt out.  And election day should be a federal holiday. 

More people voting = good for everyone, right?  Right?  RIGHT?
One of the many regrettable side effects of the pretend "right v. left" has been the sacrifice of the idea that voting is a great thing and people should do be able to do it.  Now it's all "what politicians does this benefit" instead of what is good for the country.  It's so easy to get swept up in that crap.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 07, 2020, 09:23:58 PM
One of the many regrettable side effects of the pretend "right v. left" has been the sacrifice of the idea that voting is a great thing and people should do be able to do it.  Now it's all "what politicians does this benefit" instead of what is good for the country.  It's so easy to get swept up in that crap.
Sad but true.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on August 07, 2020, 10:51:51 PM
All citizens should be registered to vote and would have to opt out.  And election day should be a federal holiday. 

More people voting = good for everyone, right?  Right?  RIGHT?
I like this idea. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 07, 2020, 11:16:13 PM
All citizens should be registered to vote and would have to opt out.  And election day should be a federal holiday. 

More people voting = good for everyone, right?  Right?  RIGHT?
I agree with this in theory.

but just like having folks vote for expanding the college football playoff to 6 teams by folks that have no interest  in college football, it's not good if folks have no knowledge of what they are voting for or against  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 07, 2020, 11:18:56 PM
if folks aren't interested enough to register

they probably aren't interested enough to educate themselves on any of the issues

I really don't care if they do show up at the polls and cast an ignorant vote for the popular name, but I sure as hell down give a damn if they don't vote.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 07, 2020, 11:31:21 PM
Saying something is fraught without telling what it is fraught with makes me fraught with anger. :96:
Relax and have a draught beer :singing:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 07, 2020, 11:47:36 PM
I agree with this in theory.
 it's not good if folks have no knowledge of what they are voting for or against 
Voters aren't informed now, as it is.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on August 08, 2020, 12:11:02 AM
How would you describe his opponent's utterances?
entertaining. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on August 08, 2020, 12:11:56 AM
Voters aren't informed now, as it is. 
wonder why that is.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 08, 2020, 01:29:17 AM
Saying something is fraught without telling what it is fraught with makes me fraught with anger. :96:
It usually brings charges of racism, as do voter ID laws.
And there may be some racism on some occasions--I don't know.
But North Carolina had a higher percentage of black voters vote after a voter ID law went into effect.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 08, 2020, 01:35:28 AM
Here is a study on states based on how easy or hard it is to vote.

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/elj.2017.0478

 (https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/elj.2017.0478)This is not a left v. right dichotomy, policies widely vary on all sorts of factors.  For example, is there early voting, is it easy to vote by mail, is voter registration automatic, etc. etc.  We know there are examples of legislatures intentionally trying to prevent poeple from voting.  For example, in North Carolina they came up with a voter ID scheme where they studied what kinds of ID's white and black voters might use and then disqualified the ones black people use more.  That was illegal and was overturned, but in my view, any restriction which makes it more difficult to vote and isn't justified by something pretty substantial is an unacceptable restriction on voting.  Corruption is often the reason - instead of valuing the people, the people in charge value being in charge.
You have to have an ID to get in the National Air and Space Museum.

IMO, voting is a far more important civic power than getting into the NASM.  I support laws that make it hard for people to vote who aren't supposed to vote. If the proposed law in North Carolina had a disparate impact on black citizens, then it would have been a bad one.  I think they ended up with a state-provided ID and black voter participation was higher after the change than before.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 08, 2020, 01:41:02 AM
All citizens should be registered to vote and would have to opt out.  And election day should be a federal holiday. 

More people voting = good for everyone, right?  Right?  RIGHT?
So you'll be happy when 100% of Trump voters show up on election day?

Just my way of saying that higher voter turnout does not necessarily produce better outcomes.  The marginal voters of whatever political persuasion tend to be uninformed idiots.  I do not hope that uninformed idiots turn out in great numbers.

Good government is a higher good than high voter turnout, IMO.

Many of the "reforms" of the Progressive Era had the impact--as desired--of reducing voter turnout, BTW.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 08, 2020, 01:43:02 AM
One of the many regrettable side effects of the pretend "right v. left" has been the sacrifice of the idea that voting is a great thing and people should do be able to do it.  Now it's all "what politicians does this benefit" instead of what is good for the country.  It's so easy to get swept up in that crap.
The notion that high voter turnout is a good thing was lost over 100 years ago during the Progressive Era.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 08, 2020, 07:22:46 AM
So you'll be happy when 100% of Trump voters show up on election day?

Just my way of saying that higher voter turnout does not necessarily produce better outcomes.  The marginal voters of whatever political persuasion tend to be uninformed idiots.  I do not hope that uninformed idiots turn out in great numbers.

Good government is a higher good than high voter turnout, IMO.

Many of the "reforms" of the Progressive Era had the impact--as desired--of reducing voter turnout, BTW.
The goal isn't necessarily higher turnout.  People can vote or not as they wish.  The goal is to reduce barriers to voting because that leads to democratic outcomes and a government people can have faith in.  The "progressives" had almost the exact same arguments as we see today - using the lip service to "secure elections" as a way to reduce participation among minorities who were less likely to vote for them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 08, 2020, 08:39:24 AM
How would you describe his opponent's utterances?
This is the difference  between Biden’s gaffes and Trump’s gaffes, imo.  I feel comfortable making fun of Trump because I think he’s just a doofus showing he isn’t as smart as he thinks he is.  Mispronouncing Thailand and Yosemite just makes me roll my eyes and shake my head.

I don’t feel comfortable making fun of Biden.  It feels inappropriate.  Biden loses his train of thought. He seems genuinely confused at times. I want to send Trump to a teacher. I want to send Biden to a neurologist.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 08, 2020, 08:46:24 AM
So you'll be happy when 100% of Trump voters show up on election day?

Just my way of saying that higher voter turnout does not necessarily produce better outcomes.  The marginal voters of whatever political persuasion tend to be uninformed idiots.  I do not hope that uninformed idiots turn out in great numbers.

Good government is a higher good than high voter turnout, IMO.

Many of the "reforms" of the Progressive Era had the impact--as desired--of reducing voter turnout, BTW.
The dems arent doing much to keep that from happening

every day they do something new to fire up Trumps base

Hey I know lets sue the NRA ...... is just another example
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 08, 2020, 11:06:51 AM
So you'll be happy when 100% of Trump voters show up on election day?

Just my way of saying that higher voter turnout does not necessarily produce better outcomes.  The marginal voters of whatever political persuasion tend to be uninformed idiots.  I do not hope that uninformed idiots turn out in great numbers.

Good government is a higher good than high voter turnout, IMO.

Many of the "reforms" of the Progressive Era had the impact--as desired--of reducing voter turnout, BTW.
To the bold, I kinda would. But as I've said, I'm big on process and voice. The uninformed idiots are part of the price of this great experiment. And I don't know if that leads to good gov or not. 

Because I'm just curious, what were those reforms? It's been a hot minute since I took a close look at that era.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 08, 2020, 11:11:01 AM
The dems arent doing much to keep that from happening

every day they do something new to fire up Trumps base

Hey I know lets sue the NRA ...... is just another example
Without 100 percent agreeing to the premise, I will say the right does have a mastery of narrative judo. Like the left does something and gets flipped on its back via it's own punch. There was a time when SJW was a term of pride. It lasts like four days. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 08, 2020, 11:53:01 AM
To the bold, I kinda would. But as I've said, I'm big on process and voice. The uninformed idiots are part of the price of this great experiment. And I don't know if that leads to good gov or not.

Because I'm just curious, what were those reforms? It's been a hot minute since I took a close look at that era.
Thank you for your first paragraph. You have restored my faith in you LOL
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 08, 2020, 11:55:25 AM
To the bold, I kinda would. But as I've said, I'm big on process and voice. The uninformed idiots are part of the price of this great experiment. And I don't know if that leads to good gov or not.

Because I'm just curious, what were those reforms? It's been a hot minute since I took a close look at that era.
The particular ones to reduce voter turnout were having a series of elections throughout the year, on off-years, etc.  The reason voter turnout was high was that party precinct leaders got the vote out by going door to door to harangue their party members.  The party leadership, from precinct leader on up, figured to get something in return if their party won.  But they couldn't keep making that maximum effort 3 or 4 times a year.

Partly this was about breaking the power of the parties.  Direct election of Senators was another aspect of the same thing.  But also it was about de-incentivizing voters so that only the right ones--the committed Progressives--would turn out on election day.
Scientific racism was pretty well imbedded in the Progressive movement.  You can look back at political cartoons from that era and find lots of emphasis on "race suicide," as the old, established protestant upper-class was being outbred by the teeming masses of immigrants.

Here's an example.

(https://i.imgur.com/Q4GNgzf.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 08, 2020, 11:58:14 AM
The Afghan Quarterback
The coach had put together the perfect team for the Chicago Bears. The only thing that was missing was a good quarterback. He had scouted all the colleges and even the Canadian and European Leagues, but he couldn't find a ringer who could ensure a Super Bowl win.

Then one night while watching CNN he saw a war-zone scene in Afghanistan . In one corner of the background, he spotted a young Afghan soldier with a truly incredible arm. He threw a hand-grenade straight into a 15th story window 100 yards away.

KABOOM!

He threw another hand-grenade 75 yards away, right into a chimney.

KA-BLOOEY!

Then he threw another at a passing car going 90 mph.

BULLS-EYE!

"I've got to get this guy!" Coach said to himself. "He has the perfect arm!"

So, he brings him to the States and teaches him the great game of football. And the Bears go on to win the Super Bowl.

The young Afghan is hailed as the great hero of football, and when the coach asks him what he wants, all the young man wants is to call his mother.

"Mom," he says into the phone, "I just won the Super Bowl!"

"I don't want to talk to you, the old woman says."You are not my son!"

"I don't think you understand, Mother," the young man pleads. "I've won the greatest sporting event in the world. I'm here among thousands of my adoring fans."

"No! Let me tell you!" his mother retorts. "At this very moment, there are gunshots all around us. The neighborhood is a pile of rubble. Your two brothers were beaten within an inch of their lives last week, and I have to keep your sister in the house so she doesn't get raped!" The old lady pauses, and then tearfully says,

"I will never forgive you for making us move to Chicago!!!


For you, Badge!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 08, 2020, 12:14:06 PM
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 08, 2020, 12:43:35 PM
Sadly enough... it's kinda like a true story.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on August 08, 2020, 12:52:37 PM
anybody else hate cheap people?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 08, 2020, 01:09:48 PM
“In the matter of reforming things, as distinct from deforming them, there is one plain and simple principle; a principle which will probably be called a paradox. There exists in such a case a certain institution or law; let us say, for the sake of simplicity, a fence or gate erected across a road. The more modern type of reformer goes gaily up to it and says, ‘I don’t see the use of this; let us clear it away.’ To which the more intelligent type of reformer will do well to answer: ‘If you don’t see the use of it, I certainly won’t let you clear it away. Go away and think. Then, when you can come back and tell me that you do see the use of it, I may allow you to destroy it.’”

~ G. K. Chesterton
The Thing, 1929
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 08, 2020, 01:49:30 PM
anybody else hate cheap people?
It depends what kind of cheap behavior someone is engaged in.

What sort has you irked?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on August 08, 2020, 02:40:59 PM
It depends what kind of cheap behavior someone is engaged in.

What sort has you irked?
I just hate cheap people period. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 08, 2020, 02:45:20 PM
I just hate cheap people period.
I'm inclined to say yes, but there are a lot of things you can call "cheap". 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 08, 2020, 02:48:23 PM
anybody else hate cheap people?
Not if they're poor.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 08, 2020, 02:48:50 PM
entertaining.
Yeesh.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 08, 2020, 02:51:22 PM
So you'll be happy when 100% of Trump voters show up on election day?

Just my way of saying that higher voter turnout does not necessarily produce better outcomes.  The marginal voters of whatever political persuasion tend to be uninformed idiots.  I do not hope that uninformed idiots turn out in great numbers.

Good government is a higher good than high voter turnout, IMO.

Many of the "reforms" of the Progressive Era had the impact--as desired--of reducing voter turnout, BTW.
This line is sort of nonsensical.  Better to whom?  If everyone votes, the will of people is heard.  

Now anyone who knows about who votes and who doesn't also knows that no republican would ever win another national election if everyone 18 and up voted.  All the young, all the poor...this balancing act of leaning one way and leaning the other way from 4-year cycle to 4-year cycle would be over.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 08, 2020, 02:52:26 PM


every day they do something new to fire up Trumps base

All 5 of you?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 08, 2020, 03:17:56 PM
This line is sort of nonsensical.  Better to whom?  If everyone votes, the will of people is heard. 

Now anyone who knows about who votes and who doesn't also knows that no republican would ever win another national election if everyone 18 and up voted.  All the young, all the poor...this balancing act of leaning one way and leaning the other way from 4-year cycle to 4-year cycle would be over.
It's funny.

In your world, "the masses" are idiots who can't be trusted to tie their shoes.
Until it's election time.  Suddenly they are sages who represent "the will of the people."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 08, 2020, 04:00:38 PM
This line is sort of nonsensical.  Better to whom?  If everyone votes, the will of people is heard. 

Now anyone who knows about who votes and who doesn't also knows that no republican would ever win another national election if everyone 18 and up voted.  All the young, all the poor...this balancing act of leaning one way and leaning the other way from 4-year cycle to 4-year cycle would be over.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and they deserve to get it good and hard.
-H.L. Mencken

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 08, 2020, 05:19:49 PM
anybody else hate cheap people?
I hate expensive people.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 08, 2020, 05:20:58 PM
It's funny.

In your world, "the masses" are idiots who can't be trusted to tie their shoes.
Until it's election time.  Suddenly they are sages who represent "the will of the people."

Huh, funny that.  We tend to like what we like and disregard the rest.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 08, 2020, 05:39:43 PM
The right v. left tends to sort itself out.  The Republican party is almost desperately catering to a whites, which is a shrinking part of the electorate.  The props such as the electoral college allow them to do that, but man are we paying for it right now.  In any event, it's not like the party just disappears once the electoral map becomes rougher.  They just have to come up with ideas and gain support from different people.  When I was growing up they prided themselves on religious values, family values, and supporting business, especially small business.  You know who are more likely to share those values?  Immigrants.  Especially muslims.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 08, 2020, 05:41:06 PM
It's funny.

In your world, "the masses" are idiots who can't be trusted to tie their shoes.
Until it's election time.  Suddenly they are sages who represent "the will of the people."
Are both not true?  

I believe in the right for all idiots to cast their vote.  I'd love for the populace to be informed.  Step 1 of that goal would be to acknowledge a lack of informed voters.  And as they (ideally) improve, they're voting all along. 

I don't see the conflict in my opinions here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 08, 2020, 06:18:08 PM
Are both not true? 

I believe in the right for all idiots to cast their vote.  I'd love for the populace to be informed.  Step 1 of that goal would be to acknowledge a lack of informed voters.  And as they (ideally) improve, they're voting all along.

I don't see the conflict in my opinions here.
I think there are a lot of informed voters that are silent right now

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 08, 2020, 06:36:04 PM
Are both not true? 

I believe in the right for all idiots to cast their vote.  I'd love for the populace to be informed.  Step 1 of that goal would be to acknowledge a lack of informed voters.  And as they (ideally) improve, they're voting all along.

I don't see the conflict in my opinions here.

I think it reasonable to despair over citizens who cast their votes either uninformed, or simply for D or R no matter what.  Both are problems, in my view.

This is a key issue with "democracy" of whatever form, uninformed or biased voters.

That is why we had Electors, back in the day, to shield us from this, but that has of course gone away in effect.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 08, 2020, 06:45:56 PM
A lot of times uninformed means they dont agree with me

There was a time when women could not vote I guess cause the founding fathers felt they were uninformed and also for the most part did not own property
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 08, 2020, 07:26:56 PM
The right v. left tends to sort itself out.  The Republican party is almost desperately catering to a whites, which is a shrinking part of the electorate.  The props such as the electoral college allow them to do that, but man are we paying for it right now.  In any event, it's not like the party just disappears once the electoral map becomes rougher.  They just have to come up with ideas and gain support from different people.  When I was growing up they prided themselves on religious values, family values, and supporting business, especially small business.  You know who are more likely to share those values?  Immigrants.  Especially muslims.
Complete hogwash. With all due respect. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 08, 2020, 07:28:44 PM
This line is sort of nonsensical.  Better to whom?  If everyone votes, the will of people is heard. 

Now anyone who knows about who votes and who doesn't also knows that no republican would ever win another national election if everyone 18 and up voted.  All the young, all the poor...this balancing act of leaning one way and leaning the other way from 4-year cycle to 4-year cycle would be over.
Also complete hogwash.  With all due respect. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on August 08, 2020, 07:40:29 PM
I hate expensive people.
You see I like expensive people. Because I can make money with expensive people.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on August 08, 2020, 07:41:16 PM
Not if they're poor.
These are usually the worst cheap people. Because they want everything under the sun but can’t afford it and expect to receive everything but don’t want to pay for it. They are stupid. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 08, 2020, 07:46:04 PM
These are usually the worst cheap people. Because they want everything under the sun but can’t afford it and expect to receive everything but don’t want to pay for it. They are stupid.
and what party is responsible for this
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 08, 2020, 07:47:55 PM
Complete hogwash. With all due respect.
LOL well what is the hogwash?  That Republicans cater to white people?  Look at the polls, and their rhetoric, it's not something they really try to hide.  That demographics are moving against this strategy?  Texas and Georgia are looking at being tossup states.  That once you get past race Republicans can offer something to people who aren't white?  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 08, 2020, 07:52:35 PM
I just hate cheap people period.
Shrug. I'm fine with people who are thrifty and live within their means. When someone's thrift causes offense, less OK with that, but they have to live with the social consequences.

But if as you said later in the thread, non-cheap people are there to be taken advantage of, then I'm fine with cheap people. Some folks fight for their money and don't care what others think. It's a way to be. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 08, 2020, 07:54:36 PM
The right v. left tends to sort itself out.  
To quote Stonewall Jackson,kill 'em - kill 'em all
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 08, 2020, 07:55:01 PM
LOL well what is the hogwash?  That Republicans cater to white people?  Look at the polls, and their rhetoric, it's not something they really try to hide.  That demographics are moving against this strategy?  Texas and Georgia are looking at being tossup states.  That once you get past race Republicans can offer something to people who aren't white? 
No way Texas is a toss up state

dream on
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 08, 2020, 07:57:51 PM
LOL well what is the hogwash?  That Republicans cater to white people?  Look at the polls, and their rhetoric, it's not something they really try to hide.  That demographics are moving against this strategy?  Texas and Georgia are looking at being tossup states.  That once you get past race Republicans can offer something to people who aren't white? 
Ehhh, the tent will shift in some way. Always does. Plus the left tends toward bumbling enough it'll hand over power for a while longer. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 08, 2020, 08:01:41 PM
Also complete hogwash.  With all due respect.
With all due respect you don't mean all due respect :character0029:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 08, 2020, 08:08:10 PM
LOL well what is the hogwash?  That Republicans cater to white people?  Look at the polls, and their rhetoric, it's not something they really try to hide.  That demographics are moving against this strategy?  Texas and Georgia are looking at being tossup states.  That once you get past race Republicans can offer something to people who aren't white? 
The narrative that the the Republican Party caters only to white people belongs in the Hall of Fame of False Narratives.  
it is also quite racist.  But I won’t stop you, CNN, MSNBC, most Democrats, and sleepy Joe from pumping it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 08, 2020, 08:08:57 PM
No way Texas is a toss up state

dream on
Not today, even though polls have it at more or less a tossup, though that's probably due more to Trump.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 08, 2020, 08:09:22 PM
With all due respect you don't mean all due respect :character0029:
I prefer to converse without rancor, a lost art in our country.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 08, 2020, 08:29:16 PM
The narrative that the the Republican Party caters only to white people belongs in the Hall of Fame of False Narratives. 
it is also quite racist.  But I won’t stop you, CNN, MSNBC, most Democrats, and sleepy Joe from pumping it.
Well we can live in lala land or we can live in reality.  Trump lost overwhelmingly with all racial demographics except white people.  He ran on a platform of building a wall to keep out Latinos and a ban on Muslims.  He called people who knelt to protest racial injustice "sons of bitches."  That's not some MSNBC narrative.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 08, 2020, 08:38:32 PM
Neither "Muslim" nor "illegal immigrant" constitute a race. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 08, 2020, 08:43:00 PM
Neither "Muslim" nor "illegal immigrant" constitute a race.
Yes and so what? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 08, 2020, 09:07:18 PM
Not today, even though polls have it at more or less a tossup, though that's probably due more to Trump. 
Not due to Trump Its due to polls being used as political tools

Same thing the dems and the media did in 2016

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 08, 2020, 09:09:08 PM
Not due to Trump Its due to polls being used as political tools

Same thing the dems and the media did in 2016


Polls are political tools?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 08, 2020, 09:13:37 PM
Well we can live in lala land or we can live in reality.  Trump lost overwhelmingly with all racial demographics except white people.  He ran on a platform of building a wall to keep out Latinos and a ban on Muslims.  He called people who knelt to protest racial injustice "sons of bitches."  That's not some MSNBC narrative.
So, now your talking Trump. Before it was Republicans.  Which false narrative are you pushing here.

either way you are way off. How people voted in the past has nothing to do with who is catering to who or at least no more than the false narratives, like yours, that are out there being pushed.
The wall is very simply to keep out illegal immigrants conceived and discussed at a time where our country in many countries were under attack from terrorists.  You may say Latinos but that does not make you correct.
lastly a ban on Muslims is a downright lie and you know that. 

also don’t assume that legal immigrants disagree with him on the wall, and don’t assume that many many many Muslims in this country don’t agree with the travel bands he put in place that did impact primarily Muslim countries.

those are media-based fake narratives
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 08, 2020, 09:16:55 PM
Let’s take a look at most of the major metropolitan cities were a high high percentage of people of color live. Most of those cities have been run by democrats for 50 6070 or 85 years. Most of those cities have not treated those minorities well, they are still living in crime infested low income housing. What is it that you think the Democrats offer that’s worth a shit because they don’t see it and neither do I. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 08, 2020, 09:18:51 PM
Well we can live in lala land or we can live in reality.  Trump lost overwhelmingly with all racial demographics except white people.  He ran on a platform of building a wall to keep out Latinos and a ban on Muslims.  He called people who knelt to protest racial injustice "sons of bitches."  That's not some MSNBC narrative.
Yes he did as a result of kneeling during the National Anthem not because they were protesting racist injustice

and most of America agreed with him but you'll find that out in November

Did you happen to see a July Rasmussen poll that revealed 40% of likely Black voters were for Trump

He wants to build a wall to keep illegal Latinos out

He banned immigration from countries where the passengers were not being vetted to protect against terrorist attacks

He did not ban immigrants from all Muslim countries
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 08, 2020, 09:26:02 PM
Polls are political tools?
Yep

Do you really think ol sleepy Joe is leading Trump by double digits

Thats a crock and just like 2016 there is going to be some very surprised dems come November who are drinking this kool-aid
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 08, 2020, 09:27:42 PM
So, now your talking Trump. Before it was Republicans.  Which false narrative are you pushing here.

either way you are way off. How people voted in the past has nothing to do with who is catering to who or at least no more than the false narratives, like yours, that are out there being pushed.
The wall is very simply to keep out illegal immigrants conceived and discussed at a time where our country in many countries were under attack from terrorists.  You may say Latinos but that does not make you correct.
lastly a ban on Muslims is a downright lie and you know that. 

also don’t assume that legal immigrants disagree with him on the wall, and don’t assume that many many many Muslims in this country don’t agree with the travel bands he put in place that did impact primarily Muslim countries.

those are media-based fake narratives
Donald Trump is a Republican and the leader of the party.  Obviously not every single Republican in the United States follows him lock step, but it's silly to pretend there is some huge gulf between him and the Republican Party.  Right now, they are on and the same.  

Also, you say the "ban on Muslims" is a lie.  That is false.  It is the absolute truth.  Donald Trump mentioned a ban on Muslims multiple times in his campaign.  https://www.cato.org/blog/dozen-times-trump-equated-travel-ban-muslim-ban

I (https://www.cato.org/blog/dozen-times-trump-equated-travel-ban-muslim-ban)n any event, there is wishing something to be and there is reality.  The reality is minority groups don't vote Republican and the Republican party isn't exactly catering to them.  My point is that this a result of the anti-republic policies we have, like the electoral college, among others.  A split which was more responsive to the will of the people would make the party be more responsive to the electorate.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 08, 2020, 09:27:46 PM
So POTUS signed for executive actions today intended to help those hurting the most from the economic fall out due to the pandemic.

Extending the student loan relief which he put in place long ago, re-starting economic payments of $400 a week for those unemployed, as well as extending the evection for renters.

Let’s hear your masterful spin job about how this only helps white people.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 08, 2020, 09:28:52 PM
Let’s take a look at most of the major metropolitan cities were a high high percentage of people of color live. Most of those cities have been run by democrats for 50 6070 or 85 years. Most of those cities have not treated those minorities well, they are still living in crime infested low income housing. What is it that you think the Democrats offer that’s worth a shit because they don’t see it and neither do I.
Well they sure ain't voting Republican
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 08, 2020, 09:31:28 PM
Yep

Do you really think ol sleepy Joe is leading Trump by double digits

Thats a crock and just like 2016 there is going to be some very surprised dems come November who are drinking this kool-aid
The averages are Biden up 6-8 percent or so.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 08, 2020, 09:32:45 PM
No way Texas is a toss up state

dream on
Are you allergic to numbers?  With covid, with this......what's that like?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 08, 2020, 09:33:55 PM
Well they sure ain't voting Republican
Seems like a higher % of them are and we will likely see that increase. 

Especially given sleepy Joe’s pension for insulting African-Americans and taking their vote for granted. 

lastly I don’t care about POTUS.  I care that Democrats do nothing to help the real issues that plague African-Americans and in fact seem to consistently make it worse.  Most of the African-American people I know are upper middle class, educated, and echo what I’m saying here
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 08, 2020, 09:36:13 PM
Are you allergic to numbers?  With covid, with this......what's that like?
Nope just know my state

The polls are wrong 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 08, 2020, 09:43:08 PM
Seems like a higher % of them are and we will likely see that increase.

Especially given sleepy Joe’s pension for insulting African-Americans and taking their vote for granted.

lastly I don’t care about POTUS.  I care that Democrats do nothing to help the real issues that plague African-Americans and in fact seem to consistently make it worse.  Most of the African-American people I know are upper middle class, educated, and echo what I’m saying here
African Americans will vote overwhelmingly Democrat this year and that will continue until the Republicans seriously try to attract their vote
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 08, 2020, 09:56:36 PM
African Americans will vote overwhelmingly Democrat this year and that will continue until the Republicans seriously try to attract their vote
Biden is doing a pretty good job of that for the Republicans right now
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 08, 2020, 10:00:03 PM
Yep

Do you really think ol sleepy Joe is leading Trump by double digits

Thats a crock and just like 2016 there is going to be some very surprised dems come November who are drinking this kool-aid
So you're saying the polls are falsified to make one the lead look larger or put someone else ahead? 

If that's a tool, what's the end game? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 08, 2020, 10:02:39 PM
So you're saying the polls are falsified to make one the lead look larger or put someone else ahead?

If that's a tool, what's the end game?
where have you been

were you around in 2016

the purpose is to win over uncommitted voters and to try to convince republican voters to stay home
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 08, 2020, 10:03:20 PM
 Most of the African-American people I know are upper middle class, educated, and echo what I’m saying here
This would explain your backwards thoughts on the matter.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 08, 2020, 10:06:06 PM
African Americans will vote overwhelmingly Democrat this year and that will continue until the Republicans seriously try to attract their vote
Or until they figure out the have been feed a steady stream of BS for years - and it has kept them down and not lifted them up. In other words when they realize the false narrative being pumped at them 24/7 by MSM and you.  

thankfully, they are starting to see it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 08, 2020, 10:07:29 PM
This would explain your backwards thoughts on the matter.
Yes.  Knowing educated people does taint you. 

But the only ones buying a word of the BS your selling is those of you selling it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 08, 2020, 10:11:29 PM
LOL well what is the hogwash?  That Republicans cater to white people?  Look at the polls, and their rhetoric, it's not something they really try to hide.  That demographics are moving against this strategy?  Texas and Georgia are looking at being tossup states.  That once you get past race Republicans can offer something to people who aren't white?
It wasn't that long ago that Republicans offered non-whites an opportunity society not depended on government handouts/government dependency.  Even George W. Bush got a reasonable percentage of the Hispanic vote.  And, of course, Cuban-Americans have long voted Republican because Democrats were soft on Communism.

Unfortunately, that party--the Cold War-winning party of Ronald Reagan--went off the rails--8 years of softball media coverage of Barack Obama after 8 years of the media criticizing George W. Bush every time he opened his mouth contributed to that, but that's no excuse--and now we have a Trumpified Republican party where what is being sold is the Flight 93 scenario, "owning the libs," and "these the people aren't real Americans."

Kevin Williamson of National Review wrote a year or two ago that the Trump Party's desired median voter is a chicken farmer in Oklahoma, and that that is no way to build a national governing coalition.  He was right, as the GOP will discover in November.

And then it will be the Democrats controlling the White House and probably both houses of Congress, and that will not be an improvement.  Genuine small-government, classical liberal, John-Locke-and-Adam-Smith Republicans (those who are left) lose either way.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 08, 2020, 10:14:38 PM
So that group you cite at the end of your post.....how many of them are there?  How did Trump take over the party?  How does he (somewhat?) still have control of it?  

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 08, 2020, 10:15:02 PM
where have you been

were you around in 2016

the purpose is to win over uncommitted voters and to try to convince republican voters to stay home
Why wouldn't that convince more republicans to come out and lead uncommitted voters to think it was a foregone conclusion and they didn't need to vote?

If 2016 was the model, why would they do it again? This doesn't make any sense.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 08, 2020, 10:21:27 PM
Let’s take a look at most of the major metropolitan cities were a high high percentage of people of color live. Most of those cities have been run by democrats for 50 6070 or 85 years. Most of those cities have not treated those minorities well, they are still living in crime infested low income housing. What is it that you think the Democrats offer that’s worth a shit because they don’t see it and neither do I.
This meme--variations on which have been circulating for at least a decade--makes that point.

(https://dropfire.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/screen-shot-2013-07-16-at-11-59-40-am.png?w=740)

Of course, "it's more complicated than that."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 08, 2020, 10:24:55 PM
It wasn't that long ago that Republicans offered non-whites an opportunity society not depended on government handouts/government dependency.  Even George W. Bush got a reasonable percentage of the Hispanic vote.  And, of course, Cuban-Americans have long voted Republican because Democrats were soft on Communism.

Unfortunately, that party--the Cold War-winning party of Ronald Reagan--went off the rails--8 years of softball media coverage of Barack Obama after 8 years of the media criticizing George W. Bush every time he opened his mouth contributed to that, but that's no excuse--and now we have a Trumpified Republican party where what is being sold is the Flight 93 scenario, "owning the libs," and "these the people aren't real Americans."

Kevin Williamson of National Review wrote a year or two ago that the Trump Party's desired median voter is a chicken farmer in Oklahoma, and that that is no way to build a national governing coalition.  He was right, as the GOP will discover in November.

And then it will be the Democrats controlling the White House and probably both houses of Congress, and that will not be an improvement.  Genuine small-government, classical liberal, John-Locke-and-Adam-Smith Republicans (those who are left) lose either way.
Oh I don’t think that is an accurate depiction of POTUS is 2016 targeted voter. 
we tend to confuse cause and effect.
I think a lot of middle-class Americans who were typically Democrats switched over. Likely just that one time but they did it.

they always talk about Macomb county Michigan as a bellwether. Middle to upper middle class predominantly white, mostly educated in two income families. Staunchly democratic but went against the Democrats in 16.  Hardly pig farmers.  Well this is a very sweeping generalization, POTUS one and 16 for a variety of unique reasons. I think Americans were tired of the prior presidents “leading from behind“ and his foreign policy of appeasement. Secondly the level of political correctness, what we today call the woke culture, was over the top. Lastly at that time the choice was between a career politician who was very unpopular to begin with in a Washington outsider. 

this election will be completely different. But you’re forgetting the huge thing here and that is that the pandemic is what has probably brought POTUS down because without it he was definitely winning again. 

Nice theory about the pig farmers though.



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 08, 2020, 10:27:04 PM
Ever notice the standard fare for liberal Democrats is to either openly or through backhanded insults attack the other side like CW just did?

I’ve always wondered why that is. The mentality of not only am I right but if you disagree with me you’re stupid. ( pig farmer). 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 08, 2020, 10:28:22 PM
Maybe we Should I suggest solutions to the issues of the day.

That might be tough for certain people who have spent most of their time in certainly the last four years on a policy of not so constructive criticism, but no ideas of their own
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 08, 2020, 10:30:36 PM
Biden is doing a pretty good job of that for the Republicans right now
Biden is a bad candidate.  He doesn't run good races, and he puts his foot in his mouth whenever possible.  And now he's showing his age just as much as Trump is.
Biden could well blow it.  A string of gaffes like the one about Hispanic diversity as opposed to black non-diversity might do it.
Right now, though, it's Biden's election to lose.
There's nothing Trump can do about it.  He can't fix the economy in 80-some days; he can't get his government's lousy response to COVID in 80-some days.  And those are the two issues that count unless he decides to start a war to distract everybody's attention.  His base is as angry now as it is going to be in November, and he has nothing to offer to his non-base except that Biden is going to hurt God.
He sure can't run on "Morning in America" like Reagan did in '84.  Trump's America is what we see around us.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 08, 2020, 10:33:18 PM
So who supports Bernie’ s propose 60% tax on billionaires.  Zucjerburg would pay 27.5 billion. Or was it Elon Musk?

Either way I personally think it’s a horrible idea, and really moves the needle towards complete socialist government.  I also think it would just be the beginning of the end of any form of meritocracy.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 08, 2020, 10:34:14 PM
So who agrees with the executive actions taken today to benefit people hardest hit financially by the pandemic including new stimulus weekly money, extended relief for student loans, and extended relief from evection for renters.


I support all of the above because our members of the house can’t come to an agreement.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 08, 2020, 10:36:16 PM
Oh I don’t think that is an accurate depiction of POTUS is 2016 targeted voter. 
we tend to confuse cause and effect.
I think a lot of middle-class Americans who were typically Democrats switched over. Likely just that one time but they did it.

they always talk about Macomb county Michigan as a bellwether. Middle to upper middle class predominantly white, mostly educated in two income families. Staunchly democratic but went against the Democrats in 16.  Hardly pig farmers.  Well this is a very sweeping generalization, POTUS one and 16 for a variety of unique reasons. I think Americans were tired of the prior presidents “leading from behind“ and his foreign policy of appeasement. Secondly the level of political correctness, what we today call the woke culture, was over the top. Lastly at that time the choice was between a career politician who was very unpopular to begin with in a Washington outsider. 

this election will be completely different. But you’re forgetting the huge thing here and that is that the pandemic is what has probably brought POTUS down because without it he was definitely winning again. 

Nice theory about the pig farmers though.
"Chicken farmers" is what I posted.  But maybe Williamson wrote "pig farmers."  Memory is fallible.
POTUS was occasionally leading in some pre-COVID polls, but mostly not.  He had a good chance, but it was no slam-dunk.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 08, 2020, 10:36:47 PM
In 2016 the polls were largely correct nationally, with Trump's election based on geographic tricks that made some voter's vote count more than others.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 08, 2020, 10:37:52 PM
In 2016 the polls were largely correct nationally, with Trump's election based on geographic tricks that made some voter's vote count more than others.
And people are afraid Trump won’t leave office when he loses LOL. More fake news. People are still whining about 2016
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 08, 2020, 10:39:05 PM
So who supports Bernie’ s propose 60% tax on billionaires.  Zucjerburg would pay 27.5 billion. Or was it Elon Musk?

Either way I personally think it’s a horrible idea, and really moves the needle towards complete socialist government.  I also think it would just be the beginning of the end of any form of meritocracy. 
I don't, of course.
But Bernie is not the Democratic nominee.
Joe Biden is a lousy campaigner, as I pointed out upthread, but he's not going to come out for anything that stupid.  Not before the election, anyway.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 08, 2020, 10:40:55 PM
So that group you cite at the end of your post.....how many of them are there?  How did Trump take over the party?  How does he (somewhat?) still have control of it?
I don't know.  I used to think that there was a critical mass of them, but then most of them seem to have discovered that they like "owning the libs" and "winning" more than they do those small-government, classical-liberal principles they espoused for decades.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 08, 2020, 10:41:57 PM
"Chicken farmers" is what I posted.  But maybe Williamson wrote "pig farmers."  Memory is fallible.
POTUS was occasionally leading in some pre-COVID polls, but mostly not.  He had a good chance, but it was no slam-dunk.
"Chicken farmers" is what I posted.  But maybe Williamson wrote "pig farmers."  Memory is fallible.
POTUS was occasionally leading in some pre-COVID polls, but mostly not.  He had a good chance, but it was no slam-dunk.
Slam dunk.
hard to take someone out of office when the economy is riproaring great.

due to the pandemic it now it’s not. But it’s probably doing better than it otherwise would be hadn’t been in bad shape to start with.

Now if you believe, as the narrative is portrayed, that POTUS is the one and only reason the pandemic exists then your conclusion has merit. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 08, 2020, 10:42:52 PM
I don't, of course.
But Bernie is not the Democratic nominee.
Joe Biden is a lousy campaigner, as I pointed out upthread, but he's not going to come out for anything that stupid.  Not before the election, anyway.
Exactly.  Once he is in, and being controlled by whomever due to his lack of senility, all bets are off
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 08, 2020, 10:44:24 PM
So who agrees with the executive actions taken today to benefit people hardest hit financially by the pandemic including new stimulus weekly money, extended relief for student loans, and extended relief from evection for renters.


I support all of the above because our members of the house can’t come to an agreement.
I don't because it's unconstitutional and should also be illegal.  I didn't support it when Obama did his "pen and a cellphone" thing when Congress wouldn't do his bidding, and I don't like it any better when Trump does it.
If I were the Dems, I'd introduce another impeachment resolution on it.  They won't because Obama did the same thing and they cheered.  Also because winning the election is more important to them than upholding the Constitution.  Just like the Republicans showed about themselves in January.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 08, 2020, 10:44:39 PM
And people are afraid Trump won’t leave office when he loses LOL. More fake news. People are still whining about 2016
Trump has made repeatedly allegations that the vote was fraudulent or will be fraudulent with no evidence.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 08, 2020, 10:47:10 PM
Slam dunk.
hard to take someone out of office when the economy is riproaring great.

due to the pandemic it now it’s not. But it’s probably doing better than it otherwise would be hadn’t been in bad shape to start with.

Now if you believe, as the narrative is portrayed, that POTUS is the one and only reason the pandemic exists then your conclusion has merit.
It's not all Trump's fault.  But he bears his share of the blame.  He's the only guy whose executive decisions affect the whole country.
Makes me wish for someone like Harry Truman, without Truman's politics.  With a sign on his desk that said, "THE BUCK STOPS HERE."
With Trump, it's the opposite.  He claims credit for everything good and accepts none of the blame.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 08, 2020, 10:48:37 PM
I don't know.  I used to think that there was a critical mass of them, but then most of them seem to have discovered that they like "owning the libs" and "winning" more than they do those small-government, classical-liberal principles they espoused for decades.
That’s a two way street.   
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 08, 2020, 10:49:33 PM
Trump has made repeatedly allegations that the vote was fraudulent or will be fraudulent with no evidence.
No evidence?   Dude you got a watch some other stations besides CNN so you can see the massive male voting frogs that have taken place just in the last 30 days
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 08, 2020, 10:49:53 PM
That’s a two way street.
I don't understand your meaning there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 08, 2020, 10:52:37 PM
It's not all Trump's fault.  But he bears his share of the blame.  He's the only guy whose executive decisions affect the whole country.
Makes me wish for someone like Harry Truman, without Truman's politics.  With a sign on his desk that said, "THE BUCK STOPS HERE."
With Trump, it's the opposite.  He claims credit for everything good and accepts none of the blame.
Well he gets no love for me for his communication skills or the consistency of his message.

Having said that I think it’s hilarious how certain people ( media)act like the pandemic wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for him. They also act like some of the retarded leader ship at the state and local level that has absolutely caused unnecessary deaths, never happened
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 08, 2020, 10:53:38 PM
I don't understand your meaning there.
You are correct that there are some “Republicans “who aren’t for the traditional Republican things but rather want to on the liberals. What I’m saying is it’s the exact same way on the left where the normal things Democrats stand for like free speech for example are the furthest thing from their minds they just want to own the conservatives.  In fact I would say today’s Democratic Party is totally unrecognizable
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 08, 2020, 11:00:10 PM
No evidence?  Dude you got a watch some other stations besides CNN so you can see the massive male voting frogs that have taken place just in the last 30 days
Yes, no evidence. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 08, 2020, 11:03:14 PM
No evidence?  Dude you got a watch some other stations besides CNN so you can see the massive male voting frogs that have taken place just in the last 30 days
If CNN isn’t covering massive male voting frogs my God is it there loss. Please send me all stories about that. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 08, 2020, 11:03:47 PM
Yes, no evidence.
Two clicks.  There are plenty more. Your the one ignoring reality. 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/west-virginia-mail-carrier-admits-attempted-election-fraud
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 08, 2020, 11:06:08 PM
Well we have a lot of very opinionated people here but for some reason nobody wants to actually talk about issues versus people in parties.

I keep trying but no luck.

Talk to all you Democrats in the morning
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 08, 2020, 11:09:12 PM
Two clicks.  There are plenty more. Your the one ignoring reality.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/west-virginia-mail-carrier-admits-attempted-election-fraud
So in West Virginia some guy messed around with Democrats' ballot requests, and this is a sign of a conspiracy against Trump?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 08, 2020, 11:09:59 PM
Well we have a lot of very opinionated people here but for some reason nobody wants to actually talk about issues versus people in parties.

I keep trying but no luck.

Talk to all you Democrats in the morning
What issue?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 08, 2020, 11:13:11 PM
So in West Virginia some guy messed around with Democrats' ballot requests, and this is a sign of a conspiracy against Trump?
Who said anything about a conspiracy against POTUS?  He didn’t.  You mentioned fraudulent.  He did too but also he mentions the huge potential for errors an delays. 

Again the narrative you’re pushing here which is completely false is that he himself is claiming there’s some conspiracy. That’s just flat out not true
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 08, 2020, 11:13:49 PM
I suggested way up thread that we stop talking about people and the two parties and instead actually discuss issues and I threw out two issues there to get opinions but nobody responded.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 08, 2020, 11:26:43 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HoHDxiANFM4

Democrat Jerry Nadler warning of the potential fraud with paper ballots in 2004.  This isn’t something Republicans suddenly came up with a month ago.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 08, 2020, 11:42:48 PM
Parties make talking points of whatever suits them when it helps them.  Then they drop it and move on to the next thing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 09, 2020, 12:30:20 AM
You are correct that there are some “Republicans “who aren’t for the traditional Republican things but rather want to on the liberals. What I’m saying is it’s the exact same way on the left where the normal things Democrats stand for like free speech for example are the furthest thing from their minds they just want to own the conservatives.  In fact I would say today’s Democratic Party is totally unrecognizable
Oh, I agree about the Democrats.  But they've been a lost cause since 1972 (McGovern--"I'll go on my knees to Hanoi") so I don't worry about them so much.  It's just the same-old, same-old.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 09, 2020, 07:53:21 AM
Who said anything about a conspiracy against POTUS?  He didn’t.  You mentioned fraudulent.  He did too but also he mentions the huge potential for errors an delays.

Again the narrative you’re pushing here which is completely false is that he himself is claiming there’s some conspiracy. That’s just flat out not true
He said a Republican would "never be elected again" if voters voted by mail.  Sounds like either a conspiracy or just an admission that making it easier to vote would hurt him.  Either way, not particularly American.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 09, 2020, 07:55:41 AM
Oh, I agree about the Democrats.  But they've been a lost cause since 1972 (McGovern--"I'll go on my knees to Hanoi") so I don't worry about them so much.  It's just the same-old, same-old.
The Democrats and Republicans probably are unrecognizable from 1972.  This is good, because I don't know that the politics of today and that of 1972 are exactly the same.  Whatever the issues are, the parties slice them up and spit out a response.  My point is that because of the electoral college, the parties don't need to care about a lot of issues, because a lot of voters don't matter.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2020, 09:34:56 AM
What is an example of one such issue?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 09, 2020, 10:07:43 AM
What is an example of one such issue?
Picking a state at random, I chose Montana, which Trump carried by 20 points on 2016. There is no real reason for either Biden or Trump to campaign in Montana given the electoral college math. Googling Montana, I've discovered a big issue there is landlocked public land, where land owned by the state for public use isn't being used because it's surrounded by private property. An issue I've never thought about for a second, and the candidates have no inventive to care about either.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2020, 10:19:24 AM
Big national issue?  If we had a popular vote, would this get notice?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2020, 10:21:04 AM
Would either candidate campaign there in any kind of election?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 09, 2020, 10:24:44 AM
Would either candidate campaign there in any kind of election?
Yes. A popular election means candidates have an incentive to campaign there, because they would both be competing for votes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 09, 2020, 10:28:15 AM
Yes. A popular election means candidates have an incentive to campaign there, because they would both be competing for votes.
All 15 of them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2020, 10:43:43 AM
Kinda funny to think any presidential campaign would concern itself with such a minor local issue ...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 09, 2020, 11:06:38 AM
The public lands issue is what the Bundy ranchers were all up in arms about. We already know where each party stands with them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 09, 2020, 11:12:55 AM
Kinda funny to think any presidential campaign would concern itself with such a minor local issue ...
Ha ha Montanans thinking their issues matter 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 09, 2020, 11:13:25 AM
The public lands issue is what the Bundy ranchers were all up in arms about. We already know where each party stands with them.
No that was something rather different
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 09, 2020, 11:14:14 AM
All 15 of them.
Small states matter! Just so long as we get their electoral votes and never have to think about them again.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 09, 2020, 11:16:38 AM
No that was something rather different


I bet that you don't even know the other acronym that BLM stands for, without having to google it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 09, 2020, 11:18:25 AM
I am in the MTZ with the Montanas and the Idahos of the world. They are not the ones that want to eliminate the Electoral College. Instead, they are currently quite grateful for its existence. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 09, 2020, 11:42:13 AM
Ha ha Montanans thinking their issues matter
which is why the senate is set up the way it is

under the current electorial method a candidate might campaign there if for no other reason then to help elect congressmen
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 09, 2020, 11:43:12 AM

I bet that you don't even know the other acronym that BLM stands for, without having to google it.
I do, because the handbook for public land surveys was written by that organization. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 09, 2020, 11:51:16 AM

I bet that you don't even know the other acronym that BLM stands for, without having to google it.
You win. Congrats Republicans and Democrats don't care about your state.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 09, 2020, 11:51:46 AM
It is the New Yorks and Californias that want to eliminate the electoral college, not the Idahos and Montanas. Stop trying to put a charitable spin on your own selfish desires. If it actually did help the Idahos and Montanas on the National scene, then the White Left would be actively campaigning against eradicating the electoral college, instead of braying about how it should be eliminated. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 09, 2020, 11:53:30 AM
Yes. A popular election means candidates have an incentive to campaign there, because they would both be competing for votes.
It's a matter of resources. In any election, only a certain percentage are truly up for grab . Most voters won't diverge from their party. Others are reliable by party but susceptible to GOTV campaigns and may not vote in every election. Some are truly independents and vote for the better candidate.

The Los Angeles Metropolitan area has more swayable voters than the entire population of Montana.

Is a candidate going to spend much effort trying to sway 50-100K Montanans? Or 1-2 million Angelenos? And then spend a bunch of time in WY, UT, ND, etc as well? All with different local issues, different television networks, etc? 

They have limited campaign funds , and even more limited time. It's going to be spent where it has the biggest chance of moving large numbers. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 09, 2020, 11:53:56 AM
It is the New Yorks and Californias that want to eliminate the electoral college, not the Idahos and Montanas. Stop trying to put a charitable spin on your own selfish desires. If it actually did help the Idahos and Montanas on the National scene, then the White Left would be actively campaigning against eradicating the electoral college, instead of braying about how it should be eliminated.
You clearly have no idea what I'm talking about.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2020, 11:55:09 AM
Bulldog Lives Matter ...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 09, 2020, 11:55:41 AM
That makes two of us. 
You clearly have no idea what I'm talking about.

That makes two of us. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 09, 2020, 11:58:31 AM
It's a matter of resources. In any election, only a certain percentage are truly up for grab . Most voters won't diverge from their party. Others are reliable by party but susceptible to GOTV campaigns and may not vote in every election. Some are truly independents and vote for the better candidate.

The Los Angeles Metropolitan area has more swayable voters than the entire population of Montana.

Is a candidate going to spend much effort trying to sway 50-100K Montanans? Or 1-2 million Angelenos? And then spend a bunch of time in WY, UT, ND, etc as well? All with different local issues, different television networks, etc?

They have limited campaign funds , and even more limited time. It's going to be spent where it has the biggest chance of moving large numbers.
Oh I quite agree they would spend more time in larger population centers. But right now there is zero incentive to spend any time in Montana, while under a popular vote there is a greater than zero incentive. Also, for Christ's sake there should be incentive for the parties to campaign in California. Only in America can we ignore a huge swathe of the population.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 09, 2020, 11:59:23 AM
Bulldog Lives Matter ...

Bureau of Land Management.

It was kind of funny on political forums around these parts, when the other BLM popped up. There were many a western White liberal who initially had no idea that Black Lives Matter also used the same acronym. So they'd be all like "how in the Hell did you take the situation in Ferguson Missouri, and turn it into a rant about public lands out west? You people have a one track mind!"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 09, 2020, 12:00:08 PM
That makes two of us.
That makes two of us.
Go yell it to the mountain on how your vote should count double. Affirmative action in practice.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 09, 2020, 12:08:56 PM
Since you quoted me twice, it would have made a lot more sense for you to have suggested that I yell it into Echo Canyon. 

C'mon man, step up your game. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on August 09, 2020, 01:38:45 PM
It is the New Yorks and Californias that want to eliminate the electoral college, not the Idahos and Montanas. Stop trying to put a charitable spin on your own selfish desires. If it actually did help the Idahos and Montanas on the National scene, then the White Left would be actively campaigning against eradicating the electoral college, instead of braying about how it should be eliminated.
California is a homeless, rat-infested shithole. 27% of the countries homeless live in California. No thanks. Joe Rogan GTFO and Elon Musk/Tesla is next to GTFO. New York City is only nice if you can afford to stay in Manhattan, and the real estate sale prices/rental prices in Manhattan are the highest in the country. There are some neighborhoods in Manhattan that will cost you $10,000 sq/ft. That is insane. Only rich people can afford to live there. And if you aren't rich and you live in Manhattan, you are living in an apartment with 3-4 roomates and you're sharing a bedroom with one of them and your rent is still $6,500 a month for an old shoebox.

The "Left" (and I don't really even consider establishment dems left) has basically ruined both of those places.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on August 09, 2020, 01:44:35 PM
Shrug. I'm fine with people who are thrifty and live within their means. When someone's thrift causes offense, less OK with that, but they have to live with the social consequences.

But if as you said later in the thread, non-cheap people are there to be taken advantage of, then I'm fine with cheap people. Some folks fight for their money and don't care what others think. It's a way to be.
You are missing the point entirely. Someone living within their means is commendable and what everyone should do. However, a lot of stupid people want everything under the sun and shit they can't afford and then expect to get a Benz or BMW for the price of a Kia and act like morons when you tell them they can't afford what they are asking for.

Who said anything about taking advantage of anyone? Non-cheap people are not there to be taken advantage of. They are there to do business with, and make money with.

You are conflating a bunch of shit, and misinterpreting completely what I was saying.

Fight for your money. That's great. But don't be one of those stupid poor, cheap dumbasses that thinks they can get a Benz or BMW for the price of a Kia. Can't fix stupid.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on August 09, 2020, 01:46:01 PM
and what party is responsible for this
both parties.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 09, 2020, 01:49:19 PM
California is a homeless, rat-infested shithole. 27% of the countries homeless live in California. No thanks. Joe Rogan GTFO and Elon Musk/Tesla is next to GTFO. New York City is only nice if you can afford to stay in Manhattan, and the real estate sale prices/rental prices in Manhattan are the highest in the country. There are some neighborhoods in Manhattan that will cost you $10,000 sq/ft. That is insane. Only rich people can afford to live there. And if you aren't rich and you live in Manhattan, you are living in an apartment with 3-4 roomates and you're sharing a bedroom with one of them and your rent is still $6,500 a month for an old shoebox.

The "Left" (and I don't really even consider establishment dems left) has basically ruined both of those places.
Really? I'm hardly a new York expert but when I went there a couple years ago Brooklyn was easily the place to be.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on August 09, 2020, 01:53:31 PM
Really? I'm hardly a new York expert but when I went there a couple years ago Brooklyn was easily the place to be.
I am going to Brooklyn in under 2 weeks lol. I'm leaving the 20th actually. Brooklyn has some nice gentrified areas- one of which I am going to. It's still very expensive there, but considerably cheaper than Manhattan, and while the newly rebuilt gentrified areas are very clean and nice, there are still plenty of areas in Brooklyn that aren't exactly nice and you wouldn't want to wonder into late at night.

Manhattan on the other hand is just on another level. I love it. Just stupid expensive.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 09, 2020, 02:04:02 PM
both parties.
damn you had a 50/50 chance and got it wrong
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2020, 02:53:48 PM
My daughter lived in Manhattan upper east side, and then Brooklyn, a few years back.  Her efficiency in the former was about $1700 per, in a decent area.  She got a three BDR in Brooklyn later for $2100, and shared that with two others, and it worked for her.

A 2 BDR around here in a newer building is $2,500 and up depending on floor.

Daughter has two houses in C-bus now, rents one of them, lives in the other.  She's a magnate.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2020, 02:54:44 PM
Oh, and I think it obvious no national candidate would spend any time in Montana before an election.  He might drop a few ads there, maybe.

And a local issue like is probably something they can sort of locally without Federal "help".
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2020, 03:11:25 PM
I have to be at the hospital at 0615 tomorrow, yuck.  And I'm sure to sit around waiting for two hours for whatever, I think surgery is slated for 0915.  I guess they need to prep me.

I can only take one person and the wife can't drive.  This is going to be interesting, my right, her left.  Two good arms between us.

I couldn't delay any longer and be ready for baseball in January.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 09, 2020, 04:00:02 PM
You are missing the point entirely. Someone living within their means is commendable and what everyone should do. However, a lot of stupid people want everything under the sun and shit they can't afford and then expect to get a Benz or BMW for the price of a Kia and act like morons when you tell them they can't afford what they are asking for.

Who said anything about taking advantage of anyone? Non-cheap people are not there to be taken advantage of. They are there to do business with, and make money with.

You are conflating a bunch of shit, and misinterpreting completely what I was saying.

Fight for your money. That's great. But don't be one of those stupid poor, cheap dumbasses that thinks they can get a Benz or BMW for the price of a Kia. Can't fix stupid.
Well I asked what you meant by "cheap" because it spans kind of a range of behaviors. The answer didn't provide clarity. I assumed it came from a personal interaction, and was hoping you'd explain it, at which point, we'd probably agree. 

My natural inclination is to be "cheap." When I was younger, it rankled me when we split bills and I ate cheaper and paid the same. I don't particularly lake trading rounds at a bar. It feels unnatural to me. Now part of my adulthood is battling past that Controlling my feelings, not letting them get in the way of social situations (sometimes maturity is spending $7 extra bucks to not have to strain a relationship).

Now if you go in trying to by a BMW or Benz for KIA prices, well you won't get a Benz or BMW and will annoy the people selling them. And if you tell your friends you want to do that, you're either projecting your ignorance or have some secret backdoor, which I can't 100 percent rule out. 

Some of this came to mind on a homer board discussion about the booster club. Basically rich booster would come up with some kind of excuse why something was wrong and they should get a perk or money back or whatever. And that's cheap in my mind. But those people also have money and I'm betting it's in part because they don't mind being shitty to people over it. It's like when people suggest life hacks and often the hack is just being a jerk and reaping the benefits of others' social graces.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 09, 2020, 04:09:54 PM
Oh, and I think it obvious no national candidate would spend any time in Montana before an election.  He might drop a few ads there, maybe.

And a local issue like is probably something they can sort of locally without Federal "help".
Obviously, no candidate would go anywhere. It's all obvious, and obviously no issues of local concern would ever matter to a presidential candidate. Obviously. As voters obviously don't care about the issues that matter to them, and obviously wouldn't vote for candidates that appealed to them on those issues. That's obviously why Montana went widely for Trump and has a Democrat governor and Senator.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 09, 2020, 04:17:06 PM
I am going to Brooklyn in under 2 weeks lol. I'm leaving the 20th actually. Brooklyn has some nice gentrified areas- one of which I am going to. It's still very expensive there, but considerably cheaper than Manhattan, and while the newly rebuilt gentrified areas are very clean and nice, there are still plenty of areas in Brooklyn that aren't exactly nice and you wouldn't want to wonder into late at night.

Manhattan on the other hand is just on another level. I love it. Just stupid expensive.
Isn't Harlem in Manhattan? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2020, 04:34:05 PM
Yup.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 09, 2020, 05:14:51 PM
Oh I quite agree they would spend more time in larger population centers. But right now there is zero incentive to spend any time in Montana, while under a popular vote there is a greater than zero incentive. Also, for Christ's sake there should be incentive for the parties to campaign in California. Only in America can we ignore a huge swathe of the population.
What I'm saying is that right now they spend almost no attention on Montana and none on California. If you change to a popular vote, they'll still not spend any attention on Montana. They'll just shift their attention from the "battleground states" to California.
California is a homeless, rat-infested shithole. 27% of the countries homeless live in California. No thanks.
We should put that into our marketing materials. 

"Our weather is so perfect, people will even be homeless to live here!"

Seriously, though, while homelessness can be a problem anywhere, if you're going to do it, might as well do it in California. Less chance of freezing to death than doing so in Minneapolis. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on August 09, 2020, 05:27:49 PM
We should put that into our marketing materials.

"Our weather is so perfect, people will even be homeless to live here!"
I mean, that was pretty much a South Park episode
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 09, 2020, 05:30:02 PM
My natural inclination is to be "cheap." When I was younger, it rankled me when we split bills and I ate cheaper and paid the same. I don't particularly lake trading rounds at a bar. It feels unnatural to me. Now part of my adulthood is battling past that Controlling my feelings, not letting them get in the way of social situations (sometimes maturity is spending $7 extra bucks to not have to strain a relationship).
We have two friend groups between my wife and I. 

My two college friends that lived in San Diego and moved away last year, and their wives, are basically a "split the bill evenly" group. Because when we go out to dinner, we know that we're all going to order a decent entree, we're all going to drink, and none of us are sweating our rent / mortgage / car payment each month. We were all two-income households, and two of the husbands are engineers while the third is a construction superintendent. If there's some sort of wide divergence, such as when we were all together for my friend's wife's baby shower [and therefore she couldn't drink], we'll typically do something like splitting the check evenly [to make it easy for the server] and have the low-cost party pay zero tip while the others overload tip to try to even it out. 

My wife's friends are a little different. Literally they'll split up the check, and one of them always has post-it notes and a pen to wrap around each person's card with how much each should pay (which at the very least is nice for the server). If my college buddies were like that, I wouldn't go out to dinner with them. But with my wife's friends, it's a lot different. We're NOT all in the same SES group. The ones who want to throw out the post-its are the least economically well-off, and one of them doesn't drink at all. So I'm not offended. When we go out with them my wife and I will often order more expensive meals AND we'll be drinking, so splitting the bill evenly would be patently unfair to the person who is least capable of shouldering the extra burden. 

What pisses me off is people who are "cheap" in the sense that they nickel and dime things when they're $10 and $20 people. 

Like this scene from "I'm Gonna Git You Sucka"...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgHcYxKjwVE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgHcYxKjwVE)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 09, 2020, 05:31:33 PM
I mean, that was pretty much a South Park episode
Ahh, you'll have to educate me. I'm old and un-hip. I stopped watching South Park and started boycotting Comedy Central in college due to the "Who is Cartman's dad?" bulljive.

I haven't kept up with those guys, other than to say that "Book of Mormon" is freakin' hilarious. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 09, 2020, 05:31:38 PM
 It's like when people suggest life hacks and often the hack is just being a jerk and reaping the benefits of others' social graces.
My life improved a lot once I realized many jerks do this...and I simply didn't let them.  They prey on the rest of society being polite.  I don't cause an incident with those types, I just let them know I won't be preyed on that way.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 09, 2020, 05:34:59 PM

"Our weather is so perfect, people will even be homeless to live here!"

Seriously, though, while homelessness can be a problem anywhere, if you're going to do it, might as well do it in California. Less chance of freezing to death than doing so in Minneapolis.
This is why I don't understand homeless people in Arizona.  You're either sweating your balls off in Phoenix or Tucson or freezing to death in Flagstaff (unless you're smart and season in either).  But when I lived upstate, there were news stories of homeless freezing to death.  In Phoneix now, there's a ton of panhandlers and it's 115 degrees everyday.  

Don't be homeless AND stupid.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 09, 2020, 05:35:30 PM
Bulldog Lives Matter ...
Not to me :88:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on August 09, 2020, 05:36:56 PM
Ahh, you'll have to educate me. I'm old and un-hip. I stopped watching South Park and started boycotting Comedy Central in college due to the "Who is Cartman's dad?" bulljive.

I haven't kept up with those guys, other than to say that "Book of Mormon" is freakin' hilarious.
Not a recent episode at all, I haven't watched in a while.  Says here 2007

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Living_Homeless (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Living_Homeless)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 09, 2020, 05:50:13 PM
Not a recent episode at all, I haven't watched in a while.  Says here 2007
The Cartman's dad thing must have been between 1996 and 2000, because that happened while I was in college.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2020, 06:33:48 PM
I was in Kroger and spied a tenderloin at a great price, or so it seemed.  I usually get them at Costco.  I spent half an hour trimming off globs of fat.  Not a good deal.

FYI.

I sear it on my electric grill and finish it in the oven which has a thermocouple that works quite well.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 09, 2020, 06:45:04 PM

i just had a couple boneless pork loin chops on my gas grill - just some seasoning salt

pared well with the fresh corn on the cob - butter and seasoning salt
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 09, 2020, 06:52:20 PM
I was in Kroger and spied a tenderloin at a great price, or so it seemed.  I usually get them at Costco.  I spent half an hour trimming off globs of fat.  Not a good deal.

FYI.

I sear it on my electric grill and finish it in the oven which has a thermocouple that works quite well.
Thats the best part.  You ruined it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2020, 06:55:22 PM
I prefer the Costco trimmed tenderloins.

Well, dang if it wasn't quite tasty.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 09, 2020, 06:57:41 PM
The Cartman's dad thing must have been between 1996 and 2000, because that happened while I was in college.


Google says that the Cartman's Dad episode was in 2010. 


episodes “200 (http://wiki.southpark.cc.com/wiki/200)” and “201 (http://wiki.southpark.cc.com/wiki/201)”. In this two-parter, it was finally revealed that Cartman’s real father was Jack Tenorman. Unfortunately, Cartman cut up and fed to his father to half-brother, Scott Tenorman in “Scott Tenorman Must Die (http://wiki.southpark.cc.com/wiki/Scott_Tenorman)”. Not only did he plot to have his father murdered, his arch nemesis turned out to be his half brother…. Oh, and Cartman also found out he was half Ginger. Son of a bitch!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 09, 2020, 11:05:01 PM
This is dedicated to Fearless

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEwnd1wbE-M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEwnd1wbE-M)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 09, 2020, 11:29:23 PM
Do you guys listen to podcasts?  If so, which ones?
Mine:
College Football Bros
Effectivey Wild (baseball)
Fantasy Focus Baseball
Making Sense (w/ Sam Harris)
The Atheist Experience
Joe Rogan Experience (but not the episodes about MMA or w/ comedians)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 09, 2020, 11:31:17 PM
Picking a state at random, I chose Montana, which Trump carried by 20 points on 2016. There is no real reason for either Biden or Trump to campaign in Montana given the electoral college math. Googling Montana, I've discovered a big issue there is landlocked public land, where land owned by the state for public use isn't being used because it's surrounded by private property. An issue I've never thought about for a second, and the candidates have no inventive to care about either.
Montana's got just over a million people.  About 75,000 more than than the Tulsa metro area has.  Without its two electoral votes from having two U.S. Senators, Montana would be even less significant than it is, electorally speaking.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 09, 2020, 11:38:37 PM
I have to be at the hospital at 0615 tomorrow, yuck.  And I'm sure to sit around waiting for two hours for whatever, I think surgery is slated for 0915.  I guess they need to prep me.

I can only take one person and the wife can't drive.  This is going to be interesting, my right, her left.  Two good arms between us.

I couldn't delay any longer and be ready for baseball in January.
Hope it goes well, CD.
I had a minor rotator cuff injury in early 2016 and the recommendation was physical therapy.  I went through the PT routine twice, and I haven't had any trouble since.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 09, 2020, 11:46:14 PM
This is why I don't understand homeless people in Arizona.  You're either sweating your balls off in Phoenix or Tucson or freezing to death in Flagstaff (unless you're smart and season in either).  But when I lived upstate, there were news stories of homeless freezing to death.  In Phoneix now, there's a ton of panhandlers and it's 115 degrees everyday.

Don't be homeless AND stupid.
Most homeless people--the ones living on the street--aren't thinking very well.  They are either mentally ill or drug-addicted.
There was a big move 30-40 years ago to de-institutionalize the mentally ill, probably based on (mostly true) horror stories of how people got treated in those institutions.
So we have a lot fewer "Snake Pits" and a lot more people living on the streets.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 09, 2020, 11:57:45 PM
Most homeless people--the ones living on the street--aren't thinking very well.  They are either mentally ill or drug-addicted.
There was a big move 30-40 years ago to de-institutionalize the mentally ill, probably based on (mostly true) horror stories of how people got treated in those institutions.
So we have a lot fewer "Snake Pits" and a lot more people living on the streets.
I just heard someone discussing that - it was under Reagan.  Let's stop providing them with help and have them on the streets is an interesting strategy.

Obviously I was talking about those with a sound mind.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 10, 2020, 07:46:00 AM
I just heard someone discussing that - it was under Reagan.  Let's stop providing them with help and have them on the streets is an interesting strategy.

Obviously I was talking about those with a sound mind.
Reagan was president in 1960? Who knew.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 10, 2020, 07:56:21 AM
Good morning, Chicago.

Hundreds of people swept through the Magnificent Mile and other parts of downtown Chicago early Monday, smashing windows, looting stores, confronting police and at one point exchanging gunfire with officers, authorities said.

The shots were fired at Michigan Avenue and Lake Street around 4:30 a.m., nearly five hours into the widespread vandalism. Officers were not hit and returned fire, according to the department, which said it was not known if anyone else was hit.

Earlier, an officer was seen slumped against a building by Grand and Wabash avenues as other other cops tended to him. It was unclear what had happened to him. Down the block, police in camouflage gear and shields briefly stood outside at a shop at Rush Street and Grand Avenue.

The looting began shortly after midnight as people darted through broken store windows and doors along Michigan Avenue carrying shopping bags full of merchandise. Cars dropped off more people as the crowd grew. At least one U-Haul van was seen pulling up.

Police made several arrests through the night and recovered at least one gun, officials said. One woman with shopping bags in her hands fell on the sidewalk as an officer was chasing her. Another woman appeared to have been pepper-sprayed. A rock was thrown at a squad car.

The looting seemed to be centered in Streeterville and North Michigan Avenue, but some looting was reported on State Street in the Loop and on the Near North Side. By 3 a.m. police appeared to be getting things under control.

But some vandalism continued into the daylight hours, and the CTA suspended train and bus service into downtown during the morning rush, while the Illinois state police blocked off ramps from expressways. Bridges across the Chicago River were raised, except for the one on LaSalle Street for emergency vehicles.

People were seen running out of a PNC Bank, its windows smashed, at Huron and State streets. Down the block, other stores, including a Sally Beauty Supply, had been cleaned out by vandals. Other parts of downtown, including around Grand and Wabash avenues, were littered with trash.

Crowds repeatedly tried to bash in the windows of the Omega watch store at Delaware Place and Michigan Avenue.

“The watch store,” one officer said. “They’re gonna get it eventually.”
A group of people went in and out through a broken window of the Louis Vuitton store along Walton Place across the street from the Drake Hotel. A squad car drove by and the group ran away.

But as the car rode off, at least one person tried to go into the shop. The police returned.

“Go home!” One cop shouted.


“You go home!” Someone shouted, apparently back at the officer.

It was not clear what sparked the vandalism, though in at least two spots graffiti against the police was seen.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 10, 2020, 09:10:54 AM
Good morning, Chicago.

Hundreds of people swept through the Magnificent Mile and other parts of downtown Chicago early Monday, smashing windows, looting stores, confronting police and at one point exchanging gunfire with officers, authorities said.

The shots were fired at Michigan Avenue and Lake Street around 4:30 a.m., nearly five hours into the widespread vandalism. Officers were not hit and returned fire, according to the department, which said it was not known if anyone else was hit.

Earlier, an officer was seen slumped against a building by Grand and Wabash avenues as other other cops tended to him. It was unclear what had happened to him. Down the block, police in camouflage gear and shields briefly stood outside at a shop at Rush Street and Grand Avenue.

The looting began shortly after midnight as people darted through broken store windows and doors along Michigan Avenue carrying shopping bags full of merchandise. Cars dropped off more people as the crowd grew. At least one U-Haul van was seen pulling up.

Police made several arrests through the night and recovered at least one gun, officials said. One woman with shopping bags in her hands fell on the sidewalk as an officer was chasing her. Another woman appeared to have been pepper-sprayed. A rock was thrown at a squad car.

The looting seemed to be centered in Streeterville and North Michigan Avenue, but some looting was reported on State Street in the Loop and on the Near North Side. By 3 a.m. police appeared to be getting things under control.

But some vandalism continued into the daylight hours, and the CTA suspended train and bus service into downtown during the morning rush, while the Illinois state police blocked off ramps from expressways. Bridges across the Chicago River were raised, except for the one on LaSalle Street for emergency vehicles.

People were seen running out of a PNC Bank, its windows smashed, at Huron and State streets. Down the block, other stores, including a Sally Beauty Supply, had been cleaned out by vandals. Other parts of downtown, including around Grand and Wabash avenues, were littered with trash.

Crowds repeatedly tried to bash in the windows of the Omega watch store at Delaware Place and Michigan Avenue.

“The watch store,” one officer said. “They’re gonna get it eventually.”
A group of people went in and out through a broken window of the Louis Vuitton store along Walton Place across the street from the Drake Hotel. A squad car drove by and the group ran away.

But as the car rode off, at least one person tried to go into the shop. The police returned.

“Go home!” One cop shouted.


“You go home!” Someone shouted, apparently back at the officer.

It was not clear what sparked the vandalism, though in at least two spots graffiti against the police was seen.

Are you sure about this? Because I had my TV on while I was shaving this morning and it was an HLN, sister station of CNN. They briefly mentioned that there was “allegedly some minor vandalism“. 

so then I went to the CNN webpage and went about two pages down and figured out that they’re just not covering it or it just didn’t happen. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 10, 2020, 09:20:19 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/lEUmxuG.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 10, 2020, 09:21:25 AM
Strike that question, I saw several live videos so it did happen
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 10, 2020, 09:31:48 AM
Oh, it happened.

(https://i.imgur.com/7zlvzMf.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/SlDSxBd.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/H9ugEo4.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/HgDj6ww.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/TznfAyr.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/7myk7wg.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/ELXWGgn.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 10, 2020, 10:12:33 AM
The new normal. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 10, 2020, 10:13:52 AM
I'm more fearful of the rural Southern man.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 10, 2020, 10:22:20 AM


No kidding. 

Since "poverty" is the driving force, this sort of thing must happen everyday in Appalachia. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 10, 2020, 10:38:05 AM

No kidding.

Since "poverty" is the driving force, this sort of thing must happen everyday in Appalachia.
My kids walked down into town  to the local ice cream shop yesterday. They didn’t mention anything.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 10, 2020, 10:41:17 AM

No kidding.

Since "poverty" is the driving force, this sort of thing must happen everyday in Appalachia.
It does. Though not too many Tesla stores in the hollers so they steal copper wire
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 10, 2020, 10:53:32 AM

No kidding.

Since "poverty" is the driving force, this sort of thing must happen everyday in Appalachia.
Poor people in close proximity to rich people / expensive stores makes it very easy to see something worth stealing. Especially in a big city where one can remain fairly "anonymous" if not apprehended.

Poor people who live in a small town with only a bunch of other poor people around where everyone knows everyone kinda has a different dynamic.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 10, 2020, 11:18:11 AM
People are moving out of the downtown and near North area in droves. Nobody wants to be there anymore.

Office are closing. Nobody wants to work down there anymore.

Chicago is done as we once knew it. It's over.

The Mayor blames the President, for lack of gun legislation.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 10, 2020, 11:26:26 AM
Sounds like it might be time for the ship to jump off of the sinking rat. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 10, 2020, 11:28:32 AM
It does. Though not too many Tesla stores in the hollers so they steal copper wire


There are definitely not any car dealerships of any type, anywhere in Appalachia. 

Great call. 

Also true that no one has ever stolen copper wire in Chicago, since they have so many car dealerships to loot. 

Better call. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 10, 2020, 11:31:45 AM
People are moving out of the downtown and near North area in droves. Nobody wants to be there anymore.

Office are closing. Nobody wants to work down there anymore.

Chicago is done as we once knew it. It's over.

The Mayor blames the President, for lack of gun legislation.
they just need wild Bill Kelso


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZf_Sr5RFGk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZf_Sr5RFGk)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 10, 2020, 11:35:03 AM
So after Trump's executive order yesterday the dems are ready to come to the table and talk for real

I guess their polling shows them in a bad light
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 10, 2020, 11:38:49 AM
Civilization is a layer on top of barbarism that's about 1/4" thick.

We've been grinding that layer away for 50-60 years now.

On the other hand, looting is just mass democracy in action, so we needn't be concerned.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 10, 2020, 11:38:55 AM

There are definitely not any car dealerships of any type, anywhere in Appalachia.

Great call.

Also true that no one has ever stolen copper wire in Chicago, since they have so many car dealerships to loot.

Better call.
My uncle can't go a week without someone trying to steal something off his farm. He should claim black people are doing it - then it becomes a National Concern.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 10, 2020, 11:43:23 AM
What are people stealing from his farm? Equipment? Crops? Livestock?

Where is this farm?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 10, 2020, 11:45:40 AM
They are stealing goats, and marrying them. 
My uncle can't go a week without someone trying to steal something off his farm. He should claim black people are doing it - then it becomes a National Concern.


Yeah, that's the same as torching a gas station. 

Another great call. 

You are definitely in the right field of employment. A professional excuse maker for abhorrent criminal behavior. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 10, 2020, 11:56:02 AM
Back home from surgery.  Woozy, sore throat.  Arm in sling.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 10, 2020, 12:00:09 PM
Get some rest. Sounds like it went well. Hopefully a great outcome.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on August 10, 2020, 12:05:44 PM
^Ditto. Good to know that you're back and things have gone well.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 10, 2020, 12:06:34 PM
95 mph on the fastball ....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 10, 2020, 12:07:14 PM
Tx.  I am fine.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on August 10, 2020, 12:08:07 PM
95 mph on the fastball ....
STEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERIKE!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 10, 2020, 12:22:12 PM
What are people stealing from his farm? Equipment? Crops? Livestock?

Where is this farm?
Southern Ohio. Don't think they steal crops, mostly looking for anything they can sell. Metal mostly. Chickens aren't worth the annoyance and it's tough to steal cattle.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 10, 2020, 12:25:15 PM
They are stealing goats, and marrying them.

Yeah, that's the same as torching a gas station.

Another great call.

You are definitely in the right field of employment. A professional excuse maker for abhorrent criminal behavior.
Save Our Gas Stations
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 10, 2020, 01:07:00 PM

No kidding.

Since "poverty" is the driving force, this sort of thing must happen everyday in Appalachia.
You're an all-star at being disingenuous.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 10, 2020, 01:11:31 PM
Great word.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 10, 2020, 01:27:11 PM
People are moving out of the downtown and near North area in droves. Nobody wants to be there anymore.

Office are closing. Nobody wants to work down there anymore.

Chicago is done as we once knew it. It's over.

The Mayor blames the President, for lack of gun legislation.
Well of course she does.  Bless her little incompetent heart.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 10, 2020, 01:41:08 PM
So apparently there were some more peaceful protests in Chicago last night? Wonderful. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: LetsGoPeay on August 10, 2020, 01:47:46 PM
Anybody else tired of virtual meetings? I’ve had more virtual meetings in the last week than Manti Te’0 and Lennay Kekua. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on August 10, 2020, 01:47:49 PM
People are moving out of the downtown and near North area in droves. Nobody wants to be there anymore.

Office are closing. Nobody wants to work down there anymore.

Chicago is done as we once knew it. It's over.



This breaks my heart....

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 10, 2020, 01:50:54 PM
This breaks my heart....


Mine too. Home for 53 years, and I'll never go back.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 10, 2020, 01:55:55 PM
Mine too. Home for 53 years, and I'll never go back.
Yeah, Chicago was SOOO safe 52 years ago (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Chicago_riots)...

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 10, 2020, 02:00:56 PM
I never once felt uncomfortable downtown, until the last time I was there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 10, 2020, 02:08:33 PM
Save Our Gas Stations
There is definitely no shortage of scum bag White criminals, if that's what you are getting at. Antifa would be exhibit A. The west end of Columbus would be exhibit B.

Appalachian folk would probably be pretty far down the list of those that I would expect to loot and riot and burn down buildings, but there are no doubt some snakes in the grass. By the looks of some of those Antifa folks, there are definitely a great many whose parents are closely related; probably evolved from some slime puddle in Kentucky. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 10, 2020, 02:35:50 PM
My uncle can't go a week without someone trying to steal something off his farm. He should claim black people are doing it - then it becomes a National Concern.
When large groups of them storm your uncle’s farm, break into his house, and burn down his barns let us know.



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 10, 2020, 03:21:46 PM
When large groups of them storm your uncle’s farm, break into his house, and burn down his barns let us know.




I will. Luckily, government policy hasn't been to deprive him of his rights and property because of what he looks like, so he's already ahead.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 10, 2020, 03:32:28 PM
I will. Luckily, government policy hasn't been to deprive him of his rights and property because of what he looks like, so he's already ahead.
well luckily this aint China
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 10, 2020, 03:36:48 PM

What is an example of a policy that the USA govt has that deprives people of their rights and property because of what they look like?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 10, 2020, 03:52:45 PM
AA?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 10, 2020, 04:02:38 PM
/Wanders in

Hmmm, should I join in here.

//Reads three posts

Nah. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 10, 2020, 04:04:33 PM
/Wanders in

Hmmm, should I join in here.

//Reads three posts

Nah.
😂😂
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 10, 2020, 06:15:05 PM
Esparel works very well.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 10, 2020, 06:28:30 PM
When large groups of them storm your uncle’s farm, break into his house, and burn down his barns let us know.
Let's oppress them for a couple of centuries and see just how rare this becomes....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 10, 2020, 06:33:54 PM

There are people that have been alive for multiple centuries? 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 10, 2020, 06:38:25 PM
Let's oppress them for a couple of centuries and see just how rare this becomes....
Orange do you feel oppressed?

Are you oppressing anybody?



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 10, 2020, 06:38:50 PM
AA?
That is definitely one. 

Are there any others? Perhaps one in which "African Americans" get the short end of the stick? 

I ask because I have no idea. Shirley there must be a million examples, as often as the allegations are vocalized. But I cannot think of any specifically off of the top of my head.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 10, 2020, 06:39:46 PM
/Wanders in

Hmmm, should I join in here.

//Reads three posts

Nah.
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AnimatedIgnorantAmphibian-small.gif)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 10, 2020, 07:02:54 PM
What is an example of a policy that the USA govt has that deprives people of their rights and property because of what they look like?


Now that will make some excellent coffee typing
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 10, 2020, 07:03:56 PM
Let's oppress them for a couple of centuries and see just how rare this becomes....
Who is oppressed? Lol.  The majority of the people committing these crimes were born post 1995.  How bad have they had it?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 10, 2020, 07:24:57 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/OC04Pwm.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 10, 2020, 07:26:10 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/gpk0DZb.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 10, 2020, 07:27:41 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/9fuzqhS.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 11, 2020, 01:37:41 AM
Who is oppressed? Lol.  The majority of the people committing these crimes were born post 1995.  How bad have they had it?


Ask them.  Live where they live.  Go to their schools and work their jobs and see if you feel fancy-free.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 11, 2020, 01:38:26 AM
There are people that have been alive for multiple centuries?


I thought everyone knew Cincy was a multiplecenturian.......that's a fun misuse of a word.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 11, 2020, 01:39:02 AM
Orange do you feel oppressed?

Are you oppressing anybody?
No.

No.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 11, 2020, 01:42:47 AM
What is an example of a policy that the USA govt has that deprives people of their rights and property because of what they look like?
Yeah, see, it doesn't have to be an official federal policy for racism and oppression to happen.
The US gov't isn't deciding on your home loan or working the leasing office.
The US gov't isn't hiring and then rejecting a higher % of resumes based on certain last names.
The US gov't isn't arresting you for drug use more often than another race who uses them just as much.


Stop pretending you're being honest here.  It's gross.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2020, 07:27:05 AM
Ask them.  Live where they live.  Go to their schools and work their jobs and see if you feel fancy-free.
Oppressed as the result of the failed policies of those who have led their cities for 20-30-40-50+ years? 

Oppressed since the progressive era?

Sure.

We can discuss that.

To me, the only way out is quality education, and good jobs. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 11, 2020, 07:40:13 AM
A Brief History of Federal Law and Race, Because You Asked For It (Part 1)

Let's hop in the way way back machine for a second.  All the way back to the aftermath of the Civil War.  Black people were riding high, as slavery has been mostly outlawed.  Of course, the southern whites weren't particularly pleased, and in response the Ku Klux Klan was formed, mostly as a terrorist group that intimidated and killed black people trying to lead.  In response, Ulysses Grant and a Republican Congress ramped up the Reconstruction and the federal government broke the Klan and most other attempts to intimidate black people.  This lasted 12 glorious years, and black people were elected to various posts.

Reconstruction ended in 1877 as a truce between Republicans and Democrats and an agreement for Rutherford B. Hayes (Go Bucks) to be president.  Union troops withdrew, and everyone agreed that everything was just peachy.  This allowed southern Democrats to start the Jim Crow era.  States enacted all sorts of crazy schemes to keep black people from voting.  Poll taxes were popular (with a grandfather exception for white people, of course).  The 13th Amendment had an exception for prison labor, so coming up with fun ways to get black people sent to prison was a twofer.  By enacting laws that kept certain felons from voting, and enacting laws that made it easy to declare someone a felon, you could both keep a black guy from voting and return him to slavery.  These efforts were very effective - despite having a huge black population, the last black congressmen left office in 1901 and another was not elected for 72 years.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 11, 2020, 07:56:35 AM
A Brief History of Federal Law and Race, Because You Asked For It (Part 1)

Let's hop in the way way back machine for a second.  All the way back to the aftermath of the Civil War.  Black people were riding high, as slavery has been mostly outlawed.  Of course, the southern whites weren't particularly pleased, and in response the Ku Klux Klan was formed, mostly as a terrorist group that intimidated and killed black people trying to lead.  In response, Ulysses Grant and a Republican Congress ramped up the Reconstruction and the federal government broke the Klan and most other attempts to intimidate black people.  This lasted 12 glorious years, and black people were elected to various posts.

Reconstruction ended in 1877 as a truce between Republicans and Democrats and an agreement for Rutherford B. Hayes (Go Bucks) to be president.  Union troops withdrew, and everyone agreed that everything was just peachy.  This allowed southern Democrats to start the Jim Crow era.  States enacted all sorts of crazy schemes to keep black people from voting.  Poll taxes were popular (with a grandfather exception for white people, of course).  The 13th Amendment had an exception for prison labor, so coming up with fun ways to get black people sent to prison was a twofer.  By enacting laws that kept certain felons from voting, and enacting laws that made it easy to declare someone a felon, you could both keep a black guy from voting and return him to slavery.  These efforts were very effective - despite having a huge black population, the last black congressmen left office in 1901 and another was not elected for 72 years.


I agree, there was rampant racism in the South, and the country in general, in the 1800's. What does that have to do with today? The people rioting in the streets were not alive in 1877. Hell, most of them were not even born before 1977. There have been many laws changed, repealed and written to reverse many, if not all of those policies that you allude to. There has also been a concerted effort for the past 60 years to prop up the African American community starting with the Civil Rights laws up through affirmative action. 

The fact of the matter is that there is plenty of opportunity in this country. All it takes is the willingness to pull yourself up through hard work. The Brookings Institute did a study and found that by following 3 simple rules, people can assure themselves they will not live in poverty. Graduate High School, get a full time job and wait until age 21 to get married and have children. That is NOT that hard to do and it is NOT exclusive to white people. 

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/three-simple-rules-poor-teens-should-follow-to-join-the-middle-class/
 (https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/three-simple-rules-poor-teens-should-follow-to-join-the-middle-class/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2020, 08:04:00 AM
Education matters.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 11, 2020, 08:13:24 AM
Part 2

So the situation was not all that great for black people in the South.  That, along with the declining profit margin in farming, meant a lot of black people started moving north.  This created a lot of conflict for northern whites - it was a lot easier to support black people when they were a thousand miles away.  What to do?

The Federal Housing Authority helped provide an answer.  Created in response to the Great Depression, it helped protect lenders and spur home ownership.  It was quite successful at this, but they had the policy of not inuring mortgages in communities with large black populations (redlining).  Combined with various other policies (the GI Bill, Federal Highway Act), the era of suburbs began.  White neighborhoods typically had a restrictive covenant or home owners association that prevented black people from moving into them.  This helped create the black people in urban environments/white people in suburbs type of segregation that persists to this day.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 11, 2020, 08:29:21 AM
Part 3

So federal policy helped a create a difficult situation for black Americans, as they were locked out of The American Dream.  As crime rose in minority communities, our American leaders put on their thinking caps and decided the best way to help black people was by locking them in cages.  Protests were becoming popular, and the government had to figure out a way to stop them.  To quote top Nixon advisor John Ehrlichman:

“The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying. We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”

The efforts to incarcerate black people were highly effective.  For example, in Texas, the state incarceration quadrupled rate quadrupled between 1978 and 2003.  At it's peak more people were incarcerated than the Soviets did during the Gulag.  And of course, black people were the biggest victims - around 40 percent of the total prison population at any given time is black people, compared to black people being about 12 percent of the population.  These actions, combined with the disenfranchisement of felons and the other traditional ways we discriminate against felons, have helped reduce black people's political and economic power.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 11, 2020, 08:32:57 AM
Ask them.  Live where they live.  Go to their schools and work their jobs and see if you feel fancy-free.
I thought you were the guy who hated anecdotal examples of anything.  Sure, I could ask an inner city black person if they feel oppressed.  But feeling a certain way about a situation and the situation actually being that way are two different things.

But while I’m out conducting interviews am I allowed to get other perspectives?  Can I talk to their teachers, coaches, friends, family, and employers or am I just taking one person’s word for it all?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 11, 2020, 08:34:14 AM
Education matters.
Gotta know your history
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 11, 2020, 08:43:02 AM
Poor people in close proximity to rich people / expensive stores makes it very easy to see something worth stealing. Especially in a big city where one can remain fairly "anonymous" if not apprehended.

Poor people who live in a small town with only a bunch of other poor people around where everyone knows everyone kinda has a different dynamic.
it's called accountability 
and some folks are still asshats
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 11, 2020, 08:45:52 AM
Let's oppress them for a couple of centuries and see just how rare this becomes....
Well you need to stop oppressing them then,I'm minding my own business .Tell me sunshine.How many NFL/NBA players have multiple children by multiple partners.How the hell does a kid have a chance even with money with out a father around for direction?

To lay down rules and enforce them to teach them about life right/wrong,to provide physical & emotional support,work ethic,study habits,etc.If the fathers haven't done that then they failed miserably.And knobs like you who blame others that are tending to their own business.Quit enabling shitty thought/blame others cycle and false finger pointing and go kick the fathers in the ass internet guru.You are the some of your total choices and if their fathers chose to abadon them by f***ing and fleeing that's on them.There are more Government programs in this country to help the disadvantaged than anywhere else.And if no one(YOU)likes it move to Russia,India,S.America, China or some other more humane place.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 11, 2020, 08:56:32 AM
For example, in Texas, the state incarceration quadrupled rate quadrupled between 1978 and 2003.  At it's peak more people were incarcerated than the Soviets did during the Gulag.  
That's bullshit It's believed Stalin's butcher bill surpassed that of Hitler's.No one knows the true numbers and it's not like the NVKD/KGB was going to provide an accurate account of it either
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 11, 2020, 09:35:09 AM
That's bullshit It's believed Stalin's butcher bill surpassed that of Hitler's.No one knows the true numbers and it's not like the NVKD/KGB was going to provide an accurate account of it either
Well people study it regardless. Estimates have around .8% of the population in gulags and 1% in American jails and prisons.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 11, 2020, 09:50:19 AM
Well people study it regardless. Estimates have around .8% of the population in gulags and 1% in American jails and prisons.
And what does that prove? All is says to me is that more people are breaking the law. As long as those laws are equally enforced, what is the problem? 

If you have evidence that the laws are not equally enforced, please show it. But simply throwing meaningless statistics out does not prove anything. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 11, 2020, 09:55:26 AM
it's undeniable that many blacks have been oppressed in this country

the question is, has this oppression been bad enough for justifiable cause to riot, loot, burn buildings, and other crimes?

are these oppressed people trying to change their world for the better, or are they selfish criminals merely taking advantage of a situation as a reason to commit crimes 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2020, 09:56:02 AM
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/033/866/Help_I'm_Being_Repressed_Banner.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 11, 2020, 09:58:56 AM
Yeah, see, it doesn't have to be an official federal policy for racism and oppression to happen.
The US gov't isn't deciding on your home loan or working the leasing office.
The US gov't isn't hiring and then rejecting a higher % of resumes based on certain last names.
The US gov't isn't arresting you for drug use more often than another race who uses them just as much.


Stop pretending you're being honest here.  It's gross.

So you were unable to come up with so much as a singular example? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 11, 2020, 09:59:08 AM
A Brief History of Federal Law and Race, Because You Asked For It (Part 1)

Let's hop in the way way back machine for a second.  All the way back to the aftermath of the Civil War.  Black people were riding high, as slavery has been mostly outlawed.  Of course, the southern whites weren't particularly pleased, and in response the Ku Klux Klan was formed, mostly as a terrorist group that intimidated and killed black people trying to lead.  In response, Ulysses Grant and a Republican Congress ramped up the Reconstruction and the federal government broke the Klan and most other attempts to intimidate black people.  This lasted 12 glorious years, and black people were elected to various posts.

Reconstruction ended in 1877 as a truce between Republicans and Democrats and an agreement for Rutherford B. Hayes (Go Bucks) to be president.  Union troops withdrew, and everyone agreed that everything was just peachy.  This allowed southern Democrats to start the Jim Crow era.  States enacted all sorts of crazy schemes to keep black people from voting.  Poll taxes were popular (with a grandfather exception for white people, of course).  The 13th Amendment had an exception for prison labor, so coming up with fun ways to get black people sent to prison was a twofer.  By enacting laws that kept certain felons from voting, and enacting laws that made it easy to declare someone a felon, you could both keep a black guy from voting and return him to slavery.  These efforts were very effective - despite having a huge black population, the last black congressmen left office in 1901 and another was not elected for 72 years.
I like this.
I'll offer clarifications where I think it's appropriate.
The Ku Klux Klan and its ilk constituted the paramilitary squadron of the southern wing of the Democratic Party.  Their goal was explicitly to return Democrat rule (meaning white supremacy) to the South.  Just in the name of honesty and transparency, it would be nice if today's Democrats would own this part of their history.
Jim Crow, surprisingly enough, was not imposed in the immediate aftermath of Reconstruction, but 10-15 year later (it didn't all happen at once, it was state by state, and not exactly the same in every southern state, but was complete by the early 1890s), during the Populist Era.  Nationally, populists made an appeal for poor whites and poor blacks to unite on the basis of similar economic interests. This was a threat to southern Democrats, so segregation in all public facilities was imposed to keep poor whites feeling superior to poor blacks and angry about any attempt by blacks to better themselves. The great southern populists like Tom Watson of Georgia ended up as little more than race-baiting demagogues.  Initially, businesses like railroads opposed Jim Crow, as it made their business more expensive and less efficient.
Of course, in 1896 SCOTUS ruled in Plessy v. Ferguson that segregation was constitutional.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: DevilFroggy on August 11, 2020, 10:04:01 AM
And what does that prove? All is says to me is that more people are breaking the law. As long as those laws are equally enforced, what is the problem?

If you have evidence that the laws are not equally enforced, please show it. But simply throwing meaningless statistics out does not prove anything.


So the fact the US has, by a considerable margin, one of the highest incarceration rates in the world (especially compared with other first world/developed nations) doesn't bother you at all? Not even a teeny tiny bit? All you think is how every single one of those people is a horrible law breaker and they deserve every bit of their prison sentence? Because that's absolutely horrifying if true.

Hopefully one day you ask yourself why we have so many "criminals and law breakers" vs every other developed nation and see where the problem actually lies.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 11, 2020, 10:12:52 AM

So the fact the US has, by a considerable margin, one of the highest incarceration rates in the world (especially compared with other first world/developed nations) doesn't bother you at all? Not even a teeny tiny bit? All you think is how every single one of those people is a horrible law breaker and they deserve every bit of their prison sentence? Because that's absolutely horrifying if true.

Hopefully one day you ask yourself why we have so many "criminals and law breakers" vs every other developed nation and see where the problem actually lies.
The freedoms in this country allow for people to make stupid decisions. Sometimes those decisions lead to people breaking laws, getting caught and ending up incarcerated. 

Again, please show me where there is unequal enforcement of the laws or what laws exist that are unnecessarily incarcerating people? You are arguing that we have too many people being locked up, but are not demonstrating where they have been wrongly imprisoned.

Yes, I'm sure there have been and still are people in prison that were wrongly convicted and I support any attempt to reverse that when appropriate. But what specific laws or policies have led to this which you feel need to be changed? Simply being outraged by a number does nothing but demonstrate your emotional attachment to the issue.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 11, 2020, 10:13:10 AM
Sam, everything that you posted has validity to it. There is no doubt that over the course of our country’s history blacks have had it tougher than whites.

But I have to admit that sometimes I wonder how much more can be done from a policy standpoint to even the playing field.  

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 11, 2020, 10:18:30 AM
Sam, everything that you posted has validity to it. There is no doubt that over the course of our country’s history blacks have had it tougher than whites.

But I have to admit that sometimes I wonder how much more can be done from a policy standpoint to even the playing field. 


They tried to level the playing field starting in the 1960's. All it did was institutionalize the problem by making blacks dependent upon the government and expanding the problem. The solution is to treat all people the same, regardless of race or income levels. Hold people responsible for their decisions and take away the safety nets to removed accountability for bad decisions so that people have to think twice about making poor decisions. 

The government needs to get back to its purpose as stated by the founders and stay out of the business of charity. The only purpose of the government is to protect the rights of ALL of it's citizens. It is NOT to ensure that everyone has a fair and equitable outcome.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2020, 10:21:41 AM
Gotta know your history
Correct. And we can teach and learn that at home, rather than from someone who wants to rewrite it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2020, 10:23:45 AM
I don't want government involved in the solution. The solution has to come from the communities, and those who invest in same.

Government has had its chance, for far too long.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 11, 2020, 10:26:07 AM
And what does that prove? All is says to me is that more people are breaking the law. As long as those laws are equally enforced, what is the problem?

If you have evidence that the laws are not equally enforced, please show it. But simply throwing meaningless statistics out does not prove anything.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5614457/
 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5614457/)
Quote
The overwhelming increase in incarceration, attributed to the drug war, has disproportionately impacted Black communities. In 2011, Blacks were incarcerated at a dramatically higher rate than Whites (5–7 times) and accounted for almost half of all prisoners incarcerated with a sentence of more than one year for a drug-related offense (Carson and Sabol 2012). Accordingly, researchers and policy analysts have sought to understand both the causes and effects of the nation’s war on drugs and its implications for racial equality (Ghandoosh 2015; Travis, Western, & Redburn 2014; Alexander, 2012; Drucker 2013; Mauer 2006). They have explored racial bias in the criminal justice system and criminal justice outcomes, including police practices, arrest rates, convictions, sentence lengths, diversionary opportunities, and community supervision; judicial policies and laws such as precedent-setting court cases and mandatory minimum sentences; and media trends and their influence on public opinion. This literature demonstrates greater likelihood of Black involvement in the criminal justice system through policing practices and sentencing policies for drug-related crime, differences in sentencing practices and case processing, and the heightened disadvantage Blacks face once they are removed from their communities, and upon return, as labeled felons and drug offenders.

While a decades-long war on drugs has ravaged Black communities, lately attention has turned to the recent surge in heroin and painkiller use and overdose among Whites, particularly those in suburbs. Local police and state governments are alarmed and are working to address the epidemic as a health issue, reexamining criminal justice policies and the decades-long emphasis on punishment (Seelye 2016). Many are advocating for the return of the rehabilitative role in judicial and correctional efforts as it relates to drug-related offenders (National Institute on Drug Abuse 2014). The Comprehensive and Addiction Recovery Act of 2015 will be considered by Congress to help states address the dramatic increases in prescription opioid and heroin use in the United States through prevention and rehabilitation efforts. The response to the current opioid epidemic, a public health crisis with a “white face,” has been contrasted to the crack epidemic that hit Black communities hard in the 90s and was met with war tactics in affected communities rather than compassion for offenders (Yankah 2016).

The laws are not equally enforced. By a mile.

Drug use is a crime if you're black. It's a health issue if you're white.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 11, 2020, 10:28:54 AM
Part 2

So the situation was not all that great for black people in the South.  That, along with the declining profit margin in farming, meant a lot of black people started moving north.  This created a lot of conflict for northern whites - it was a lot easier to support black people when they were a thousand miles away.  What to do?

The Federal Housing Authority helped provide an answer.  Created in response to the Great Depression, it helped protect lenders and spur home ownership.  It was quite successful at this, but they had the policy of not inuring mortgages in communities with large black populations (redlining).  Combined with various other policies (the GI Bill, Federal Highway Act), the era of suburbs began.  White neighborhoods typically had a restrictive covenant or home owners association that prevented black people from moving into them.  This helped create the black people in urban environments/white people in suburbs type of segregation that persists to this day. 
Time is getting compressed somewhat here.
White Southern economic and social practices continued to impoverish most people--black and white alike--of the region, just as they had before the abolition of slavery.
Blacks moving out of the South into northern, midwestern, and even western cities is what historians call the Great Migration.  (The same name is given to the wave of Puritans coming to New England in the 1630s.)  It started during World War I as industry ramped up to supply the Allies even before we were in the war (which began in April 1917).
In the destination cities, not only was there tension between rural blacks and urban whites, but also between rural blacks and urban blacks.  Racial tension and cultural tension.
The FHA (Federal Housing Administration) came along as part of FDR's New Deal in 1934.  And it had racist policies as described.  It turned integrated neighborhoods into segregated ones.  FDR was a Democrat.  This is another part of the Democratic Party's history that I wish current Democrats would acknowledge.
During World War II, the FDR administration enacted the GI Bill of Rights.  And it had racist impacts as described.  Again, FDR was a Democrat.
Jonah Goldberg has made a good point about who gets blamed for America's sins.  Because those who set the standards of historical/intellectual assessment of America are overwhelmingly liberal Democrats, it works like this.  When liberals and/or Democrats have pursued racialist policies, that's America's fault.  When conservatives and/or Republicans have pursued such policies, that's their fault.  Liberal Democrats are never at fault.  Of if they are, it's only in falling short, as in failing to appropriate enough money to create the Eden that they have promised.  But they always try to do the right thing.  Of course they do.  Just ask 95% of college history professors.
None of this excuses the racism/white nationalism of the alt-right, or the Republican in the White House who appeals to the alt-right and will not issue a word of criticism of that movement.  Or of the Republicans in Congress who lick his boots.
But, historically, up to 1964, Republicans had a far better record on civil rights and racial equality than Democrats did.  The Civil Rights Acts of 1957 and 1960--the first such since Reconstruction--were products of the Eisenhower (R) administration, watered down by Senate Democrats, who were led by Lyndon B. Johnson.  Even the Civil Rights Act of 1964 had greater Republican support than Democratic.
Unfortunately, the GOP has pretty much dropped the ball on racial issues since 1964.  Even when GOP economic policies produced rising living standards among black Americans, Republicans have failed to do much outreach to blacks or make blacks feel welcome in the party.  And now preserving the names of Confederate "heroes" in the names of military bases seems to be the hill that the POTUS and his lackeys in Congress are willing to die on.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: DevilFroggy on August 11, 2020, 10:34:52 AM
The freedoms in this country allow for people to make stupid decisions. Sometimes those decisions lead to people breaking laws, getting caught and ending up incarcerated.

Again, please show me where there is unequal enforcement of the laws or what laws exist that are unnecessarily incarcerating people? You are arguing that we have too many people being locked up, but are not demonstrating where they have been wrongly imprisoned.

Yes, I'm sure there have been and still are people in prison that were wrongly convicted and I support any attempt to reverse that when appropriate. But what specific laws or policies have led to this which you feel need to be changed? Simply being outraged by a number does nothing but demonstrate your emotional attachment to the issue.


I never even mentioned in my post unequal enforcement of the law, because that's only part of the reason for our disgustingly disturbingly high incarceration rate. A good chunk of the problem lies with the laws themselves and how easily they can be selectively enforced or ignored.

If some 19 year old stoner gets caught with a couple pounds of marijuana in his car, does he really deserve to spend the next 25+ years of his life in prison? Are we as a society "better off" or "safer" because some kid who tried his hand at peddling dope got busted and is now locked in a cage? And when this 19 year old finally gets released from prison when he finally turns 44 do you think he'll be a better person or be "reformed" from his sentence?

That's just a tiny example of the kind of BS that can get someone incarcerated for most of their life. Our prisons are full of non-violent and far from dangerous individuals who committed victimless crimes. And it's we the taxpayers paying for it too, btw.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 11, 2020, 10:39:02 AM
I agree, there was rampant racism in the South, and the country in general, in the 1800's. What does that have to do with today? The people rioting in the streets were not alive in 1877. Hell, most of them were not even born before 1977. There have been many laws changed, repealed and written to reverse many, if not all of those policies that you allude to. There has also been a concerted effort for the past 60 years to prop up the African American community starting with the Civil Rights laws up through affirmative action.

The fact of the matter is that there is plenty of opportunity in this country. All it takes is the willingness to pull yourself up through hard work. The Brookings Institute did a study and found that by following 3 simple rules, people can assure themselves they will not live in poverty. Graduate High School, get a full time job and wait until age 21 to get married and have children. That is NOT that hard to do and it is NOT exclusive to white people.

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/three-simple-rules-poor-teens-should-follow-to-join-the-middle-class/
 (https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/three-simple-rules-poor-teens-should-follow-to-join-the-middle-class/)
It has two things to do with today:


I'm one of those in this country who can accurately claim that my ancestors didn't own slaves, because they were Eastern European immigrants to Chicago in the late 1800's. Being in the North, they weren't part of the Jim Crow South and segregation. I probably can't claim that none of them were racist... Being on the South Side of Chicago in the Polish neighborhoods in close proximity to the black neighborhoods... It wouldn't surprise me much if they were. 

But I am not going to claim that being named Brad and the descendents of those Eastern European immigrants that lived north of 63rd street rather than being named Tyrone and born African-American south of 63rd street hasn't given me an advantage in American life. It doesn't solely explain why I am where I am--my dad was the first in his family to go to college, he and my mom moved out to the suburbs where the schools were excellent and I was surrounded by people and culture who valued education. And I was born with a big ol' nerdy brain at pretty much just the right time in history to be a computer geek. I've worked hard and tried to make good choices. 

But I still started the race a 1/4 of the way ahead of Tyrone. Which means that he would have to be THAT much better just to catch up. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 11, 2020, 10:47:52 AM
Part 3

So federal policy helped a create a difficult situation for black Americans, as they were locked out of The American Dream.  As crime rose in minority communities, our American leaders put on their thinking caps and decided the best way to help black people was by locking them in cages.  Protests were becoming popular, and the government had to figure out a way to stop them.  To quote top Nixon advisor John Ehrlichman:

“The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying. We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”

The efforts to incarcerate black people were highly effective.  For example, in Texas, the state incarceration quadrupled rate quadrupled between 1978 and 2003.  At it's peak more people were incarcerated than the Soviets did during the Gulag.  And of course, black people were the biggest victims - around 40 percent of the total prison population at any given time is black people, compared to black people being about 12 percent of the population.  These actions, combined with the disenfranchisement of felons and the other traditional ways we discriminate against felons, have helped reduce black people's political and economic power.
All true.
And, yet, the Nixon administration enforced far more real school integration in the South than all the previous presidents since the Brown v. Board decision combined.  By the end of his presidency, the South's schools as a whole were much more integrated than northern ones.  Nixon was a strange mix of contradictions.
Differential incarceration is why there's a racial angle to the issue of voting rights for convicted felons even when there's no conscious racial angle in why people think the way they do about it.
Do you, Sam, have thoughts about why there's a higher rate of criminal conviction for black defendants?  Is it because they're black, or because they're likely to be poor and therefore unable to afford good attorneys?  Or both?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 11, 2020, 10:48:42 AM
So Billy Bob's kids in the single-wide trailor that is completely covered in dents has a quarter mile head start over Malia Obama and LeBron James Junior? 

Riiiight. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 11, 2020, 10:51:12 AM
No justification for looting and burning exists

I wasnt around 150 years ago and neither was todays Black population 

This you owe me mentality has to stop

I know many Black people that are successes in life and they didnt burn down a store to get there

Its amazing to me to see pro basketball players who this country allowed to become millionairs kneel during the national anthem. Its like they are saying nevermind paying me millions just to play a game we need more

as long as they kneel during the national anthem I wont be watching 




Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 11, 2020, 11:14:50 AM
Correct. And we can teach and learn that at home, rather than from someone who wants to rewrite it.
It's always being rewritten Badge.  Has been since Herodotus invented it.
It's never a finished product.
Imagine being an engineer in the 19th century.  New inventions, new materials, new techniques.  The "known" would be constantly changing.
History is always being rewritten.  There's always something to look at in a different way.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 11, 2020, 11:19:39 AM
So Billy Bob's kids in the single-wide trailor that is completely covered in dents has a quarter mile head start over Malia Obama and LeBron James Junior?

Riiiight.
Of course not. That's a completely asinine argument. There's a lot MORE than race involved. But that doesn't mean race isn't involved.

Billy Bob's kids will still get more of the benefit of the doubt than Tyrone will if they try to better themselves. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: DevilFroggy on August 11, 2020, 11:24:21 AM
So Billy Bob's kids in the single-wide trailor that is completely covered in dents has a quarter mile head start over Malia Obama and LeBron James Junior?

Riiiight.

I like how you try to use two of the most wealthy AA people you can think of to somehow prove your point.

Poor people are typically disadvantaged from the uber elite rich. This isn't exactly breaking news and yes,s a wide wealth chasm would often supercede differences in race. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, but it also proves absolutely nothing.

Seriously, you pretty much just said "since wealthy black people exist and poor white people exist, institutional racism therefore doesn't exist". Think about that, and if you still feel proud of the words you actually took time and effort to punch out on a keyboard and knowingly share with other adult humans then I'm not sure much can be done for you. Shame, really.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 11, 2020, 11:27:42 AM
What is institutional racism?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 11, 2020, 11:29:10 AM
This you owe me mentality has to stop
There's an aspect to it that might be a "you owe me" mentality, and I disagree with that.

But a lot of the issue is that we continue to treat people differently based on race.

The entire impetus for this round of protests was a guy who allegedly passed a counterfeit $20, was cuffed, was compliant, and a police officer knelt on his neck for 8:46 until he was dead. He wasn't resisting, he wasn't a threat to the officers, his alleged crime was minimal, but Chauvin flat out killed him. 

To the black community, this wasn't some isolated incident. This was an acute outbreak of an ongoing raging disease that isn't being treated. 

That's why this is still going on. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 11, 2020, 11:30:19 AM
Of course not. That's a completely asinine argument. There's a lot MORE than race involved. But that doesn't mean race isn't involved.

Billy Bob's kids will still get more of the benefit of the doubt than Tyrone will if they try to better themselves.

That's just ridiculous. A lot of poor Whites are descended from indentured servants, and their family has been poor ever since they earned their freedom. 

They have never, ever been part of any ruling class, buried on the bottom rung of society, and catch the bulk of the blame for "oppression." It is absolutely absurd. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 11, 2020, 11:31:41 AM
I like how you try to use two of the most wealthy AA people you can think of to somehow prove your point.

Poor people are typically disadvantaged from the uber elite rich. This isn't exactly breaking news and yes,s a wide wealth chasm would often supercede differences in race. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, but it also proves absolutely nothing.

Seriously, you pretty much just said "since wealthy black people exist and poor white people exist, institutional racism therefore doesn't exist". Think about that, and if you still feel proud of the words you actually took time and effort to punch out on a keyboard and knowingly share with other adult humans then I'm not sure much can be done for you. Shame, really.
Yes, and I also used the most extreme example for poor whites. I did this in order to illustrate that it is a class issue, and not a race issue. Thank you for noticing.

I also never once claimed that institutional racism doesn't exist. It does, but not in the way that we are told that it does. It is in the form of Affirmative action. Hence the reason that that's the only example that any of you could come up with of a United States law that behooves one group of people over another, based solely on skin color. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 11, 2020, 11:31:52 AM
how often are black folks killed by police wrongly?  are the the police punished for it?

he did resist...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 11, 2020, 11:35:11 AM
how often are black folks killed by police wrongly?  are the the police punished for it?

he did resist...
How often?  Too often.  And that goes for white folks too.  There are too many bad police shootings.
The police are not punished in proportion to their misdeeds.  Police unions are part of the problem.  SCOTUS-created police immunity is another part of it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: DevilFroggy on August 11, 2020, 11:37:42 AM


as long as they kneel during the national anthem I wont be watching






I have to imagine if you told every kneeling NBA players about your boycott their reactions would probably go something like this.

(https://i.imgur.com/aHr9rlR_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 11, 2020, 11:37:54 AM
how often?  major cause of death?  do black cops do it too?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: DevilFroggy on August 11, 2020, 11:40:53 AM
That's just ridiculous. A lot of poor Whites are descended from indentured servants, and their family has been poor ever since they earned their freedom.

They have never, ever been part of any ruling class, buried on the bottom rung of society, and catch the bulk of the blame for "oppression." It is absolutely absurd.

Oh bless your heart. You actually believe this don't you? Aw, well hopefully someday they find some cure for your affliction.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 11, 2020, 11:42:32 AM
how often?  major cause of death?  do black cops do it too?
yes, black cops do it too

it's not about race, it's about bad cops
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2020, 11:44:22 AM
yes, black cops do it too

it's not about race, it's about bad cops
Correct, except that some bad cops are racists - be them white, be them black, be them brown, be them yellow, be them male, be them female.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 11, 2020, 11:48:51 AM
yes, we all know there are racists out there

I've been known to say that all folks with enough experience are racist to a degree

racists come from all walks and all jobs

law enforcement just has the means to not be held accountable for brutality and deaths

I'm happy all police officers will soon be wearing body cameras in Sewer City

hopefully the county sheriff's department will follow suit
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 11, 2020, 11:49:16 AM
https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/more-than-half-million-absentee-ballots-mailed-to-the-wrong-people-in-virginia/?fbclid=IwAR1dKprIs0gSXn98mmxcBOU5TBHTY_RmvOSLe-qtVINDKFNw3v0C2MZ09aM (https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/more-than-half-million-absentee-ballots-mailed-to-the-wrong-people-in-virginia/?fbclid=IwAR1dKprIs0gSXn98mmxcBOU5TBHTY_RmvOSLe-qtVINDKFNw3v0C2MZ09aM)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 11, 2020, 11:51:34 AM
why absentee ballots are not usually counted

why mass voting by mail is ridiculous at best
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 11, 2020, 11:52:50 AM
Oh bless your heart. You actually believe this don't you? Aw, well hopefully someday they find some cure for your affliction.

Ad hominem. 

Black people have one political party wrapped around their finger, and another that is absolutely scared to death of them. That isn't oppression, that is a pretty nice place to be. If only we all could be so lucky.

If you want to see true oppression, you need to search out the groups of people on the fringes of society, that are equally despised by both political parties. Like, say, the polygamists on the Utah-Arizona border. About the only thing that the left and the right agree on these days is that those people deserve to be discriminated against. So they get absolutely train run by both political parties at all times, bi-partisan, no matter which one is in power, and they will never get any relief. Ever. Nobody will ever take up their side. Kids can literally throw rocks at them, and people will just laugh. (I have actually seen this happen.) You have people like Fro asking me if I live in their town, and suggesting that we all need to burn our computers if I did. 

That's oppression. Having the political party that controls the media, silicon valley, the education system, and the entire entertainment industry at your beck and call is not oppression. At all. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 11, 2020, 11:53:36 AM
how often?  major cause of death?  do black cops do it too?
I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're asking with the first two.
Black cops pretty much behave like white cops.
If you consider that all arrests are legitimate, cops killing black suspects--by shooting or otherwise--is not racially skewed.  They are no more likely to kill a black suspect arrested for the same crime and behaving in the same way as a white suspect.  But they arrest proportionately more black suspects.  We can get into some circular reasoning with this.
I think it's pretty clear that cops hassle black people more, and that poisons the relationship.  Black people trust the cops less than white people do, so they are less likely to report crimes and they are more likely to respond uncooperatively or confrontationally when questioned or arrested.
Or so I understand from my reading of the situation, which has not been nearly as extensive as my study of certain other subjects.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 11, 2020, 11:55:40 AM
Question is how many times does ths occur in a year.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 11, 2020, 11:57:53 AM
Question is how many times does ths occur in a year.
(https://i.imgur.com/FxH9hNm.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 11, 2020, 11:59:33 AM

Billy Bob's kids will still get more of the benefit of the doubt than Tyrone will if they try to better themselves.
Yeah, that isn’t necessarily true.  Billy Bob’s kids don’t have Affirmative Action policies to help them get into schools or obtain employment they otherwise might not be qualified for.

And if there is a Billy Bob Jr I’d say there is a pretty good chance his resume might get pushed to the bottom just as quickly as Tyrone Jr’s.  But no one cares enough to do a study on white southern sounding names so we’ll never know for sure.

But we do know if there aren’t enough Tyrones at a particular school or company the decision maker may be compelled to give Tyrone a shot, whether they want to or not. That isn’t the case for Billy Bob.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 11, 2020, 12:00:02 PM
Yes, and I also used the most extreme example for poor whites. I did this in order to illustrate that it is a class issue, and not a race issue. Thank you for noticing.

I also never once claimed that institutional racism doesn't exist. It does, but not in the way that we are told that it does. It is in the form of Affirmative action. Hence the reason that that's the only example that any of you could come up with of a United States law that behooves one group of people over another, based solely on skin color.
Based on what you said:


Quote
The Brookings Institute did a study and found that by following 3 simple rules, people can assure themselves they will not live in poverty. Graduate High School, get a full time job and wait until age 21 to get married and have children. That is NOT that hard to do and it is NOT exclusive to white people.


Truth is that's hard for black people in poverty and it's hard for white people in poverty. It's ALWAYS hard for people to reach out of what they're in when they're surrounded by bad examples. 

25.8% of blacks are impoverished, while 11.6% of whites are impoverished. (https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2013/acs/acsbr11-17.html#:~:text=By race%2C the highest national,African Americans (25.8)

I'm saying that 400 years of history of slavery to jim crow/segregation to disparate policing / war on drugs to just plain flat out white racism is a BIG reason why the black poverty rate is >2x that of whites. Institutional racism means that they're in a deeper hole than whites are. So it's a harder climb out of it. All I'm asking is that you recognize that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 11, 2020, 12:01:13 PM

Do you, Sam, have thoughts about why there's a higher rate of criminal conviction for black defendants?  Is it because they're black, or because they're likely to be poor and therefore unable to afford good attorneys?  Or both?
I do have thoughts.  One is the sociological angle, which is when you segregate people into impoverished areas, then spend a lot of money to police and incarcerate them, you create a pretty difficult environment for people.  As far as convictions on an individual basis, certainly having money helps, though most people charged with crimes aren't going to have a lot of money.  However, there tend to be more ways to avoid the system if you are in the suburbs.  For example, here in Columbus a suburb school is much less likely to refer school incidents to the police and/or the justice system compared to Columbus Public.  Suburb kids will have more alternatives to have the case diverted compared to city school kids.  

I always had an anecdotal thought which is hopefully nonpolitical.  People told some stories about Mitt Romney pulling "pranks" which more or less amounted to bullying some kid by holding him down and cutting his hair.  Romney by many accounts is a nice guy and just did some dumb things as a kid.  But the chances are a lot higher that some black kid holding down someone and cutting his hair is charged with a crime and described as a monster.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 11, 2020, 12:01:33 PM
I have to imagine if you told every kneeling NBA players about your boycott their reactions would probably go something like this.

Thats fine capitalism at work is fine with me cause Im not alone on this

and another thing get that stupid BLM logo off the court floor while youre at it

Black Lives Matter is a self proclaimed Markist organization and does the Black protesters a disservice 

When I watch a sporting event I dont want to be lectured to





Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on August 11, 2020, 12:01:48 PM
How often?  Too often.  And that goes for white folks too.  There are too many bad police shootings.
The police are not punished in proportion to their misdeeds.  Police unions are part of the problem.  SCOTUS-created police immunity is another part of it.
I would argue that A) there are too many police shootings, and B) Data on officer-involved shootings has been, and remains, hard to get. Until law enforcement is compelled to honestly come forth with information, this will continue to be the case. And it's hard to draw good conclusions without good source information (GIGO).

The Mapping Police Violence Project compiles several crowdfunded searchers with some of their own.

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/ (https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/)

The Washington Post has been combing the news wires since 2015 to try to establish the scale of police-involved shootings.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on August 11, 2020, 12:05:55 PM
Question is how many times does ths occur in a year.
The Mapping Police Violence project has an average of 1,095 deaths per year since the start of 2013. It's also a really tight spread (low 1050, high 1143).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 11, 2020, 12:06:24 PM
how often are black folks killed by police wrongly?  are the the police punished for it?

he did resist...
FYI I mentioned this as being an acute symptom of a wider disease. The disease is disparate policing. The other issues usually don't rise to the level of creating national protests, but don't act like they don't exist.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 11, 2020, 12:11:22 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/FxH9hNm.png)
so, if we guess there are 328 million folks in the USA, about 1,000 killed
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 11, 2020, 12:14:34 PM
almost golf related, history related


Property Near Harding Park Is Site Of 1859 Shootout



(https://i1.wp.com/www.globalgolfpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Dueling_pistols2.jpg?resize=1200%2C599&ssl=1)




In a wooded ravine just south of Harding Park and between the boundaries of the Olympic Club and San Francisco Golf Club stand two small stone obelisks, a carefully measured 10 paces apart. They mark the spot where a pair of combatants faced each other in what is regarded as the last notable duel to take place in the United States: a shootout in autumn 1859 that resulted in the death of a United States senator at the hand of a retired chief justice of the California Supreme Court after years of dispute about slavery and a rash of insults the two men had been hurling at each other.
READ NOW

https://www.globalgolfpost.com/featured/the-last-american-duel/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ggp+-unlocked&utm_content=20200807-duel&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=READ%20NOW&utm_campaign=Duel%20Unlocked (https://www.globalgolfpost.com/featured/the-last-american-duel/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ggp+-unlocked&utm_content=20200807-duel&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=READ NOW&utm_campaign=Duel Unlocked)



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 11, 2020, 12:16:22 PM
The Mapping Police Violence project has an average of 1,095 deaths per year since the start of 2013. It's also a really tight spread (low 1050, high 1143).
how many unjustified

there are 18,000 municipalities and 800,000 policemen if the US

considering they police 340,000,000 people the 1,095 number is not alarming by itself

give the stats on the breakdown of the 1,095 number race, justified etc

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 11, 2020, 12:23:28 PM
how many unjustified

there are 18,000 municipalities and 800,000 policemen if the US

considering they police 340,000,000 people the 1,095 number is not alarming by itself

give the stats on the breakdown of the 1,095 number race, justified etc
Regardless of "justification" which isn't always the highest bar to clear, might we ask why we're 3.5x on a population-adjusted level over Canada and Australia, and why we're >10x as high as most of Europe?

What is unique about America that police are killing so many more people than other "comparable" countries? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 11, 2020, 12:45:26 PM
Regardless of "justification" which isn't always the highest bar to clear, might we ask why we're 3.5x on a population-adjusted level over Canada and Australia, and why we're >10x as high as most of Europe?

What is unique about America that police are killing so many more people than other "comparable" countries?

that says it all right there
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: DevilFroggy on August 11, 2020, 12:51:08 PM
that says it all right there

Yes, the fact that you conveniently ignored everything else in that post does say it all. Hmmm...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 11, 2020, 12:54:03 PM
Yes, the fact that you conveniently ignored everything else in that post does say it all. Hmmm...
if the police were justified then thats sufficient
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 11, 2020, 12:59:55 PM
if the police were justified then thats sufficient
If the government decides that a government official killing someone is justified then that's it. I forget is that a right wing position or a left wing position?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 11, 2020, 01:06:50 PM
if the police were justified then thats sufficient
I didn't want to dig into it. Because quite often, the arbiter of whether police are "justified" is their own statements about the facts without the availability of body-camera or other corroboration. As I said, it's not a high bar to clear. 

This isn't a racial question. I'm legitimately asking "why is it so much higher here?"

Maybe there's a valid explanation. We have tons of guns in this country, MUCH higher than most of those other listed countries, so it's possible that the majority of those police shootings were justified by the aggressive weapon-wielding actions of the person who was killed. I don't know.

Maybe Americans are, on average, just much more violent than people in those other countries and those were almost all legitimate instances of the person killed attacking the cops. 

But much like the question about the US having the highest incarceration rate in the industrialized world, we're a SIGNIFICANT outlier here, and I'd like to know why. Maybe the answer is trigger-happy cops, regardless of whether they can string together facts that make the killings nominally "justified". 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2020, 01:14:29 PM
Regardless of "justification" which isn't always the highest bar to clear, might we ask why we're 3.5x on a population-adjusted level over Canada and Australia, and why we're >10x as high as most of Europe?

What is unique about America that police are killing so many more people than other "comparable" countries?
I don't know that there is any country "comparable" to ours. What I do know is that there are far too many illegal weapons on our streets, and too many people use them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 11, 2020, 01:17:14 PM
Its hard to come up with a response to a claim that a police shooting is not justified even though a review board says it is

so Im gonna jump off here 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 11, 2020, 01:24:23 PM
I don't know that there is any country "comparable" to ours. What I do know is that there are far too many illegal weapons on our streets, and too many people use them.
Its hard to come up with a response to a claim that a police shooting is not justified even though a review board says it is

so Im gonna jump off here
I'm not trying to play a gotcha game here.

Policing is hard. Often you have to subdue a suspect that is not compliant. In the cases where a suspect was not compliant, in those cases the use of force is considered "justified". 

American cops killing a MUCH higher portion of suspects each year can have multiple reasons:


Options #1 and #2 aren't really police problems at all. They might be completely different societal differences between America and those other countries. I'm just asking whether it's that, or whether it's #3, which is something we could potentially fix by improving our policing.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on August 11, 2020, 01:24:56 PM
In a similar vein to the above discussion:

https://twitter.com/StarTribune/status/1291710001904603137 (https://twitter.com/StarTribune/status/1291710001904603137)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 11, 2020, 01:25:09 PM
The deaths of citizens at the hands of law enforcement compared to other countries is definitely alarming. There is no doubt about that.  I’m all for looking into that closer and finding out why.

What isn’t alarming, at least not to me, is when those deaths are broken out by race.  A statistic often cited is blacks account for roughly 25% of all police shootings while only making up 13% of the population.  But they also account for roughly 50% of the murders in this country.

If statistically, blacks are more likely to interact with the public in a hostile/violent  way is it a stretch to think they are more likely to interact with the cops in the same way?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2020, 01:53:45 PM
Options #1 and #2 aren't really police problems at all. They might be completely different societal differences between America and those other countries. I'm just asking whether it's that, or whether it's #3, which is something we could potentially fix by improving our policing.


I don't know we could improve our policing now. They have been neutered, to the point where many will walk away rather than engage. This, combined with efforts to defund them, will not improve policing. Another problem.. Who really wants to be a cop right now? The increase in retirement applications in NYC is staggering.

Now, if you want to seriously think about how to reform policing, you could look at better training up-front (AAS/technical degree/certificate program or equivalent), busting up the unions, and making the them accountable to a professional board by requiring each of them to possess a professional license in the state that they practice. 10-12 hours of continuing education per year. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2020, 04:56:17 PM
i'm back.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2020, 04:57:53 PM
Countries I think could be "better" for some folks than the US:

NZ
Australia
Switzerland
Canada
Portugal  (sort of)
Denmark

There are some others.  I'm happy here.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 15, 2020, 05:00:03 PM
. . . Now, if you want to seriously think about how to reform policing, you could look at better training up-front (AAS/technical degree/certificate program or equivalent), busting up the unions, and making the them accountable to a professional board by requiring each of them to possess a professional license in the state that they practice. 10-12 hours of continuing education per year.
I like those suggestions.
That and getting rid of police unions.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 15, 2020, 05:38:26 PM
Countries I think could be "better" for some folks than the US:

NZ
Australia
Switzerland
Canada
Portugal  (sort of)
Denmark

There are some others.  I'm happy here.


How dare you!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2020, 05:39:41 PM
I see nothing particularly daring in my post.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 15, 2020, 05:45:51 PM
Neither do I.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 16, 2020, 10:49:29 AM
pisses me OFF!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 16, 2020, 10:53:35 AM
My point  clearly is that it isn't daring nor difficult nor whatever to post a list of countries that appear to do pretty well and that MIGHT be better choices for some of us, IF they'd let us in (which often is a problem).  We all live in the US, apparently, some of us may not have spent much time in other countries, and few of us have tried to LIVE there (which is different from visiting).

France seems like a great place, to a visitor, but talk to the wife about living there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 16, 2020, 10:56:36 AM
My point  clearly is that it isn't daring nor difficult 
They don't understand.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 16, 2020, 10:57:08 AM
Who is "they"?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 16, 2020, 11:01:50 AM
Them.

The "'Murica is #1" crowd who are disgusted by even having the conversation about it.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 16, 2020, 11:05:25 AM
Well, at least I dared to provide a possible list of "better" countries.  I guess I'm an Internet Brave Warrior.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 16, 2020, 11:21:13 AM
36 holes yesterday - perfect day on the course - 82 degrees very little wind, full sun

teed off at 7am, schooner of beer and a Charlie Boy for lunch and then back to the course to tee off at 1pm

Brats and fresh Walleye for dinner - full day

decided to rest up this morning - passed on the 8am tee time, going at 1pm

another great day on the course
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 16, 2020, 11:23:17 AM
Holy Crap wouldn't mind going if that's the itinerary.Brats and Walleye was that served at the course?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 16, 2020, 11:35:10 AM
36 holes yesterday - perfect day on the course - 82 degrees very little wind, full sun

teed off at 7am, schooner of beer and a Charlie Boy for lunch and then back to the course to tee off at 1pm

Brats and fresh Walleye for dinner - full day

decided to rest up this morning - passed on the 8am tee time, going at 1pm

another great day on the course
Being mosey here.  Where in the hell are you getting the fresh walleye from? That’s like the best fish on earth! Secondly, and you can PM me this if you want to, what kind of scores do you typically shoot.

I went out at like 430 yesterday to a very nice semi private course because it’s cheap and empty at that time and played 18 holes in about two hours. Shot 81 but was pissed off because I took a double bogey on the last hole which was a par four. And hit every fairway until that one and quickly stroked a pulled hook into the woods on the left.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 16, 2020, 11:50:29 AM
Holy Crap wouldn't mind going if that's the itinerary.Brats and Walleye was that served at the course?
walleye was caught on the dams of the Missouri river in South Dakota a week or so ago by a friend that came down from Sioux Falls to play some golf.  so, wasn't "real" fresh.  Been frozen awhile

Served up at a friend's garage last night

I'm a 9 or 10 handicap

shot 39-45 the first 18 then came back and shot 41-40

I rarely break 80, but I don't shoot higher than 90 too often
just try to keep the doubles and triples off the card and clip a birdie once in a while
it's more about the beer cart and hanging with the fellas than serious golf
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 16, 2020, 12:16:01 PM
Them.

The "'Murica is #1" crowd who are disgusted by even having the conversation about it. 
when you spell America Murica what does that mean
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 16, 2020, 12:23:03 PM
it's more about the beer cart and hanging with the fellas than serious golf
A League I'd fit right in at.Hell I'd could just drive the cart - after a schooner of course
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 16, 2020, 12:23:59 PM
when you spell America Murica what does that mean
Lot of patriotic good old boys evidently pronounce it like that
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 16, 2020, 12:36:58 PM
knuckle dragging mouth breathers

the unwashed uneducated masses
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 16, 2020, 12:37:20 PM
FORE!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 16, 2020, 12:43:47 PM
knuckle dragging mouth breathers

the unwashed uneducated masses
That's no way of ingratiating yourself to this forum
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 16, 2020, 12:53:53 PM
knuckle dragging mouth breathers

the unwashed uneducated masses
I thought they might have learned their lesson 3 years ago but I guess they never will
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 16, 2020, 01:07:35 PM
when you spell America Murica what does that mean
It's a caricature of those who may be overly zealous in their vocal love for the U.S. 

Wait, overly zealous?  How is that even possible?? 

Just when it's blind.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 16, 2020, 01:37:40 PM
It's a caricature of those who may be overly zealous in their vocal love for the U.S. 

Wait, overly zealous?  How is that even possible?? 

Just when it's blind.
so why do you assume anyone who says they love this country is blind to its faults

Just because they may not agree with you does not mean they are blind 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 16, 2020, 02:32:29 PM
so why do you assume anyone who says they love this country is blind to its faults

Just because they may not agree with you does not mean they are blind


Resist!  
What are you resisting?
I dont know. just..Resist!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 16, 2020, 02:49:59 PM
so why do you assume anyone who says they love this country is blind to its faults

Just because they may not agree with you does not mean they are blind
Everyone in this country is fully aware that the country has faults. 

Those faults are caused by the opposite political party, and this country wouldn't have faults if we just keep them out of power. 

This isn't hard to understand at all. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 16, 2020, 03:03:42 PM
Everyone in this country is fully aware that the country has faults.

Those faults are caused by the opposite political party, and this country wouldn't have faults if we just keep them out of power.

This isn't hard to understand at all.
its scarry to think hes actually teaching our children
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 16, 2020, 04:23:20 PM
I wish more folks were cognizant that electing A instead of B is simply not going to solve most of our problems.  It MIGHT at times create fewer than the alternative, maybe.

At best.  Maybe not.

Candidates have a way of saying Z and doing A.  No more nation building ...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 16, 2020, 04:26:00 PM
I wish more folks were cognizant that electing A instead of B is simply not going to solve most of our problems.  It MIGHT at times create fewer than the alternative, maybe.

At best.  Maybe not.

Candidates have a way of saying Z and doing A.  No more nation building ...
To paraphrase Chomsky - politics is doing the work all the time and taking a break every once in a while to vote.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 16, 2020, 05:01:15 PM
Don't know much about Chomski.  Most people have jobs, and real lives, and little influence on what actually gets done in the world.

I suppose if one is an "activist" with some other means of income that could make sense.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on August 16, 2020, 05:01:36 PM
I just look at the folks from Team A who hate this one guy, and the folks from Team B who can't believe how stupid Team A is, and I marvel at how easily manipulated they all are.

I suppose it's always been this way, though.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 16, 2020, 05:17:16 PM
Yes, folks act as if stuff is somehow unique and new when it's old as the hills.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 16, 2020, 05:17:49 PM
so why do you assume anyone who says they love this country is blind to its faults

Just because they may not agree with you does not mean they are blind


I don't assume that.
I know agreeing with me has nothing to do with their blindness.  


I don't know where you're getting this stuff.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 16, 2020, 05:19:01 PM
its scarry to think hes actually teaching our children
Keep sharing your incompetence with us, please.  Keep being an asshole.  Keep that spotlight on your ignorance.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 16, 2020, 05:25:20 PM
Them.

The "'Murica is #1" crowd who are disgusted by even having the conversation about it.
Remember your post to someone to "grow up."
Think about doing the same.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 16, 2020, 05:36:37 PM
Remember your post to someone to "grow up."
Think about doing the same.
What's adolescent about my post?  Do you deny there are plenty of people who fit that description?  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 16, 2020, 06:01:51 PM
Don't know much about Chomski.  Most people have jobs, and real lives, and little influence on what actually gets done in the world.

I suppose if one is an "activist" with some other means of income that could make sense.


Most people do. But the ones who work on getting things done are the ones who get things done.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 16, 2020, 06:03:51 PM
I've seen folks who thought they were getting things done in spades.  None of them were in reality.  They were dreamers.  All of them.

I also think if someone claims "A is not the best", it's viable to discuss which of the alternatives are better.  

It's a logical course of discussion, to me anyway.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 16, 2020, 06:05:25 PM
I've seen folks who thought they were getting things done in spades.  None of them were in reality.  They were dreamers.  All of them.

I also think if someone claims "A is not the best", it's viable to discuss which of the alternatives are better. 

It's a logical course of discussion, to me anyway.


Probably. Most of us aren't paying attention to who is doing the work, and thus wouldn't see the people doing the work.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 16, 2020, 06:10:24 PM
I only speak about folks within my direct knowledge.  Nearly all of my "wine group" was hyper liberal and they marched and wrote letters and wore T shirts and whatever else.  None of them made any difference, at all.  It was to me just feel good stuff, virtue signaling, in large part because they made such a public deal of it.

I once asked one of them what she thought she changed by her March for Science (a concept that truly was fascinating to me).  She got mad at me.

The March for Science was a march against Trump.  Whatever.  Have at it if it makes you feel good about yourself.

I'll drink some more wine.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 16, 2020, 06:29:16 PM
What's adolescent about my post?  Do you deny there are plenty of people who fit that description? 
Sure, there are plenty of people who fit that description.  It is a stereotype that is based partly in truth, but do we really want to go down that road?

There are plenty of people out there we could start describing who fit some stereotypes. At what point are we crossing a line?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 16, 2020, 06:48:16 PM
Currently watching The Swamp on HBO, which is quite good.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 16, 2020, 07:01:02 PM
Sure, there are plenty of people who fit that description.  It is a stereotype that is based partly in truth, but do we really want to go down that road?

There are plenty of people out there we could start describing who fit some stereotypes. At what point are we crossing a line?
I was specifying a certain group of people.  That's hard to do without a description.  I don't even really care, it's just reason number 2839482 for certain posters to bitch at me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 16, 2020, 07:04:32 PM
Currently watching The Swamp on HBO, which is quite good.
It's even better in person...

(https://i.imgur.com/Ur5en7t.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 16, 2020, 09:15:48 PM
I was specifying a certain group of people.  That's hard to do without a description.  I don't even really care, it's just reason number 2839482 for certain posters to bitch at me.
You're such a victim. Lol.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 16, 2020, 10:07:19 PM
What's adolescent about my post?  Do you deny there are plenty of people who fit that description?
You're just poking a stick into an anthill to see the ants react.  Knowing how they'll react.
You can do better.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 16, 2020, 10:30:42 PM
You're just poking a stick into an anthill to see the ants react.  Knowing how they'll react.
You can do better.
Actually, I try to use a mirror, but they never see their reflection.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 16, 2020, 10:50:10 PM
Actually, I try to use a mirror, but they never see their reflection.
well we vampires tend to have that problem 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 17, 2020, 12:36:05 AM
Keep sharing your incompetence with us, please.  Keep being an asshole.  Keep that spotlight on your ignorance.
Says you,the rest of us find it brilliant oratory and brutally honest,'Murica
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 17, 2020, 06:07:13 AM
Canada seems like a fine country, relatively speaking, a sort of European version of "America", with that French part in the middle causing problems.

The Canadians I've known were fine folk.  They look like "us", heh.  Largely.  Aye.

I've heard they prefer to be known as Canadians when they travel.  I've never been mistreated because I was American that I know of.  Americans in Paris are usually easy to spot.  I try to look "normal" when I'm there, it makes it a bit easier to walk around at times.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 17, 2020, 07:17:43 AM
Canada is great been up there prolly 25X.1st 12 yrs of my life on vacations.Ontario/Quebec great fishing & beer,bacon & eggs with a Molson Export every morning on those trips
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 17, 2020, 07:38:10 AM
France is great to visit, mostly, but probably not great to reside in permanently.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 17, 2020, 07:48:27 AM
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/overall-rankings (https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/overall-rankings)

Like colleges, UsNews ranks countries. Switzerland comes in at #1.  The USA comes in at #7.  Hey #7 ain't bad. Baylor clocked in there last year.  We are the Baylor of the world.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 17, 2020, 07:57:48 AM
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/overall-rankings (https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/overall-rankings)

Like colleges, UsNews ranks countries. Switzerland comes in at #1.  The USA comes in at #7.  Hey #7 ain't bad. Baylor clocked in there last year.  We are the Baylor of the world.
Good for Switzerland!

But, as I've posted somewhere recently, we have responsibilities that Switzerland doesn't.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 17, 2020, 08:01:52 AM
As is well known, I'm not a fan of "rankings", even if my whatever ends up on top.  They are either entirely subjective, or based on subjective criteria selected by someone or group.  A selection of different criteria, equally plausible, yields different results.  And we should each have our own personal criteria anyway.

The only ranking that matters is yours.  Well, your wife's really.

She ranked you Number One at some point among the options available to her.  And vice versa.

I loathe wine rankings.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 17, 2020, 08:27:49 AM
I was in Switzerland some years ago because I girl I liked wanted to go to Grindelwald, which is a mountain town.  My main memory is walking around looking for a restaurant.  We found one and I couldn't read the menu because it was in German.  I pointed to one item and the waitress said it was horse.  Give me some horse I said.  I got my horse, which was kind of tough, and we ate our meal.  As we were leaving I noticed across the street there was someone ushering a live horse into a barn, and the horse did not at all seem pleased with it.  I must have got the last piece of horse.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 17, 2020, 08:29:45 AM
Such a great world we live. 

My ex brother in law is the rider. Fractured skull, severe head trauma, multiple broken bones.  

https://www.9news.com/mobile/article/traffic/pickup-slams-motorcycle-interstate-25-castle-pines/73-531c2aef-b4a8-455c-a381-22747304b39d
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 17, 2020, 08:35:22 AM
Such a great world we live.

My ex brother in law is the rider. Fractured skull, severe head trauma, multiple broken bones. 

https://www.9news.com/mobile/article/traffic/pickup-slams-motorcycle-interstate-25-castle-pines/73-531c2aef-b4a8-455c-a381-22747304b39d
Fuq is wrong with people?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 17, 2020, 09:11:45 AM
That truck couldn't see or hear 3 bikes?I hope they catch that pathetic knob he/she took off - they knew
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 17, 2020, 09:23:15 AM
Such a great world we live.

My ex brother in law is the rider. Fractured skull, severe head trauma, multiple broken bones. 

https://www.9news.com/mobile/article/traffic/pickup-slams-motorcycle-interstate-25-castle-pines/73-531c2aef-b4a8-455c-a381-22747304b39d
That's just crazy.

 Sorry man. Hope he pulls through. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 17, 2020, 11:13:28 AM
some very bad luck

we all should enjoy and appreciate each day

ya just never know when it could get worse
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 17, 2020, 11:36:29 AM
my dad had a motorcycle as a kid and even raced them on a dirt track.  He never allowed me to have one cause he said most of the trouble you get into on one is not your fault but that doesnt change the outcome
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 17, 2020, 12:20:49 PM
yup, motorcycles are dangerous

I rode thousands of miles each summer until I had kids.  Sold the bikes and haven't had one since.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 17, 2020, 01:02:10 PM
my dad had a motorcycle as a kid and even raced them on a dirt track.  He never allowed me to have one cause he said most of the trouble you get into on one is not your fault but that doesnt change the outcome
After I had a motorcycle on a racetrack the very first time, I suddenly became MUCH more paranoid riding on the street. 

I had a 75 mph highside on the racetrack and walked away with some scrapes, bruises, and a sprained knee. There was no cliff's edge to go over or rock face to hit, no trees, there was no oncoming traffic to run me over, etc. 

I felt safer taking huge risks on the racetrack (pushing myself and the bike to limits I'd never touch on the street) than I did riding normally on the street. Even though the risk of crashing is much higher on the track, the risk of that crash being fatal or horrific is much lower. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 17, 2020, 01:39:38 PM
We had a field behind our house and a kid living a few houses down made a track there and even had a plywood jump

one day he was going around the track and my dad motions him over and asks to take a few laps

the kid says sure and when my dad got on that motorcycle my jaw dropped as I had no idea he had even been on a motorcycle

anyway he proceeded to go around the track and took the jump landing perfectly

after another lap my dad turns the bike over to the kid and said it brought back memories

so I said what else can you do I dont know about

he just laughed 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 17, 2020, 02:19:26 PM
I highsided a 1987 Hurricane 1000 on Wolf Creek Pass in Colorado

the cliff's edge wasn't far away, there just happened to be a spot to pull over off the road on that curve.

smashed my ankle a bit, tore the footpeg off the bike, scraped up the faring and bar and exhaust.  No real damage.

I hit 160mph a few hours later on a highway in Western Kansas

but, I never went into a corner quite that hard again.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 17, 2020, 02:53:27 PM
Saw a bike stopped at a light get ass ended while sitting in a Burger King when I was 14.Me and a buddy ran over to help the guy,his torso was scrapped up he said he thought a couple of ribs were broke.May have punctured a lung.Nothing life threatening,but I filed it away under "F*** That".Neighbor buddy's parents belonged to a bike club that had friends -  a married couple get killed by a guy running a red light around the same time as the earlier accident.Kind of cured the itch
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: TyphonInc on August 17, 2020, 02:58:31 PM
Such a great world we live.

My ex brother in law is the rider. Fractured skull, severe head trauma, multiple broken bones. 

https://www.9news.com/mobile/article/traffic/pickup-slams-motorcycle-interstate-25-castle-pines/73-531c2aef-b4a8-455c-a381-22747304b39d
Oh My Goodness. Thoughts and prayers to your Ex-Brother-in-Law. Hope he recovers. And if you are willing please give us updates (as you get them.)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: DevilFroggy on August 17, 2020, 03:16:08 PM
My dad also had a couple motorcycles and rode regularly until he had kids and sold them.

A friend's dad who was a former motorcycle rider always said: "There's two kinds of motorcycle riders: those who have had a big crash and those who will" and that stick with me. As a result I've never had any interest at all in motorcycles myself.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: DevilFroggy on August 17, 2020, 03:23:50 PM
Something morbid involving motorcycles that stuck with me as well...

Almost exactly 3 years ago in central Wyoming, heading back to Laramie after having just witnessed the total solar eclipse we were on a 2 lane highway. It was pretty packed and this moving slow despite being middle of nowhere Wyoming (due to the eclipse) and all the traffic was moving in the same direction and there was literally NO traffic coming against us at all from the other direction. 

An older gentleman on a motorcycle decides to skip traffic and take the unused lane and pass us all by. Whatever, didn't bother me. But about a mile or two down the highway about 10 feet off the shoulder on the opposite side of the highway we see a motorcycle on its side. The same one that passed up previously. We also see a car pulled over with it's hazard lights on and the driver standing outside the car looking distraught, and then we see the lifeless body of the motorcycle rider. 

Turns out some car didn't like him using the unoccupied lane to skip us all and swerved at him as he passed, causing him to swerve to avoid him and lose control and crash off the shoulder. Looks like he broke his neck in his fall and died instantly. Pretty surreal scene.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 17, 2020, 03:57:09 PM
Oh My Goodness. Thoughts and prayers to your Ex-Brother-in-Law. Hope he recovers. And if you are willing please give us updates (as you get them.)
I will.  As you can see from the dash cam video- it was 100% intentional.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 17, 2020, 03:57:57 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/PLQw3ru.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 17, 2020, 04:06:14 PM
I just don't know how someone could do such a thing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on August 17, 2020, 04:28:55 PM
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/overall-rankings (https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/overall-rankings)

Like colleges, UsNews ranks countries. Switzerland comes in at #1.  The USA comes in at #7.  Hey #7 ain't bad. Baylor clocked in there last year.  We are the Baylor of the world.
Meh. These lists are subjective. List sucks. No way in hell Canada, UK, Germany, or Switzerland are better countries to live in than the US. I've been to them all. Way too cold. And the food sucks way too much.

Only place in Europe I think I could live is Barcelona.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 17, 2020, 04:35:30 PM
SFIrish had a Harley Sportster until the day before she went into labor with our first. She will have a bigger version when the kids are out of the house. She loved riding on the open roads around El Paso, particularly up into New Mexico. I'll probably get a class-M and join her, though I'm not sure.

Speaking as a cyclist, it's terrifying how many car drivers are clueless; they present the primary worry as I try to get around safely, but there is a tiny group of people who intentionally use their cars as weapons to intimidate. I'm not at all surprised by the video above. I've seen that kind of behavior several times--and, curiously, never when I've been the one doing something I shouldn't have. (People love to hate cyclists for running traffic signals, blocking traffic, etc., and I'm not perfect, but I know when I'm doing things wrong and when I'm not; usually not.)

I've had two vehicles--one a BMW and one a pickup truck--swerve at me. I'm sure they didn't mean to hit me, but there's no doubt they were sending me a message that the didn't like sharing the road with me. The BMW's driver just yelled at me when he did it; the pickup did it just before a traffic light that stopped us both, at which point he started to get out of his truck and wanted to fight me. My crime? I was in the left-hand turn lane on a multi-lane road, so that I could turn left.

It's far from the average day, but it's more common than it ought to be. Most people laugh and think it's funny. It should go without saying: it isn't.

And PS how on earth have no arrests been made in that incident? Could there be a clearer instance of vehicular battery? That crime is usually prosecuted against people who injure others while driving under the influence. It is shocking how few prosecutions there are against sober people who were, at best, criminally negligent--and more likely, as in this case--intentionally assaulting the victim. The driver of that truck should be facing charges. Full stop.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 17, 2020, 04:42:30 PM
Meh. These lists are subjective. List sucks. No way in hell Canada, UK, Germany, or Switzerland are better countries to live in than the US. I've been to them all. Way too cold. And the food sucks way too much.

Only place in Europe I think I could live is Barcelona.
You just like those Spanish women ;-) 

Here's the methodology: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/methodology

 (https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/methodology)I don't know that I'd agree with Canada being there. But I could see some advantages to anywhere other than Canada in the top 10. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 17, 2020, 04:44:34 PM
I hear good things about Costa Rica, hear being the operative term.  I surmise you can live well there with a paucity of funding.  Of course you might wake up one morning and find the political system had changed radically.

One thing I pay for here is stability.  I'm fairly confident the country will remain tomorrow and the next day more of less the same.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 17, 2020, 04:47:08 PM
I don't remember other drivers acting like that back when I was cycling, but that was in the 80s and most riding was done in the midwest.

I feel that folks are crazier now than back then
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 17, 2020, 04:52:40 PM
All rankings at best are general guides because each of us is unique, and we each will have a different weighting of the various factors used in any quasi-quantitative ranking.  This is one reason the wine rankings are so absurd.  A lot of those "100 point" wines would taste awful to most people, especially if quaffed short of 25 years of aging.  Your own tastes likely are just fine with some 87 point wine, and in fact, the difference between 87 and 91 points is very slight.  The rating doesn't even go below 50, and you never see a wine rated below about 83 or so (in my life).

So, nearly all wines in the $10-$200 range rate between about 88 and about 92.  Yay.  And some of the points are for things like clarity which may not matter to you, at all.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on August 17, 2020, 04:53:55 PM
HB, extend our best to him. That video is maddening.

As someone who has spent a large amount of time on the side of Twin Cities freeways over the last 10 years, nothing about that surprises me. I'm not joking when I say that if I don't get flipped off/angry horn honk/swore at at least three times in a day, that's a slow day. If one conducts themselves always under the assumption that drivers A) can't see you, B) are going too fast, and C) they are totally distracted, and act accordingly, generally you'll be okay. 

Idiots like that driver are why our traffic office exists. Attempting to fix stupid through design. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 17, 2020, 04:55:17 PM
SFIrish had a Harley Sportster until the day before she went into labor with our first. She will have a bigger version when the kids are out of the house. She loved riding on the open roads around El Paso, particularly up into New Mexico. I'll probably get a class-M and join her, though I'm not sure.

Speaking as a cyclist, it's terrifying how many car drivers are clueless; they present the primary worry as I try to get around safely, but there is a tiny group of people who intentionally use their cars as weapons to intimidate. I'm not at all surprised by the video above. I've seen that kind of behavior several times--and, curiously, never when I've been the one doing something I shouldn't have. (People love to hate cyclists for running traffic signals, blocking traffic, etc., and I'm not perfect, but I know when I'm doing things wrong and when I'm not; usually not.)

I've had two vehicles--one a BMW and one a pickup truck--swerve at me. I'm sure they didn't mean to hit me, but there's no doubt they were sending me a message that the didn't like sharing the road with me. The BMW's driver just yelled at me when he did it; the pickup did it just before a traffic light that stopped us both, at which point he started to get out of his truck and wanted to fight me. My crime? I was in the left-hand turn lane on a multi-lane road, so that I could turn left.

It's far from the average day, but it's more common than it ought to be. Most people laugh and think it's funny. It should go without saying: it isn't.

And PS how on earth have no arrests been made in that incident? Could there be a clearer instance of vehicular battery? That crime is usually prosecuted against people who injure others while driving under the influence. It is shocking how few prosecutions there are against sober people who were, at best, criminally negligent--and more likely, as in this case--intentionally assaulting the victim. The driver of that truck should be facing charges. Full stop.
From what I am hearing- arrest forthcoming
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 17, 2020, 04:57:05 PM
Meh. These lists are subjective. List sucks. No way in hell Canada, UK, Germany, or Switzerland are better countries to live in than the US. I've been to them all. Way too cold. And the food sucks way too much.

Only place in Europe I think I could live is Barcelona.
Sicily would be my choice over there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 17, 2020, 05:20:59 PM
You just like those Spanish women ;-)

Here's the methodology: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/methodology

 (https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/methodology)I don't know that I'd agree with Canada being there. But I could see some advantages to anywhere other than Canada in the top 10.
If I had to leave.....Movin' on up..
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 17, 2020, 05:32:50 PM
If I had to leave.....Movin' on up..
Eh. Canada seems very boring to me. I could probably do Vancouver though. Granted I've only been there once. Never been to Montreal.

But I've been to Toronto, Ottawa, and Calgary a few times each, and I just don't see anything redeeming or interesting enough to justify the weather. 

The nice thing about nearly anywhere in Europe is that you're a train ride away from a complete change of scenery, food, language, history, etc (unless it's Sweden, then you have to fly). And even within countries like Germany, the difference between Munich and Berlin is significant. I'd put up with winter weather for that. 

But Canada is just kinda cold, boring, and culturally no different than staying here. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 17, 2020, 06:17:25 PM
Sweden is connected by bridge to Denmark.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on August 17, 2020, 06:17:48 PM
Eh. Canada seems very boring to me. I could probably do Vancouver though. Granted I've only been there once. Never been to Montreal.

But I've been to Toronto, Ottawa, and Calgary a few times each, and I just don't see anything redeeming or interesting enough to justify the weather.

The nice thing about nearly anywhere in Europe is that you're a train ride away from a complete change of scenery, food, language, history, etc (unless it's Sweden, then you have to fly). And even within countries like Germany, the difference between Munich and Berlin is significant. I'd put up with winter weather for that.

But Canada is just kinda cold, boring, and culturally no different than staying here.
I wouldn't.  

But I'd be down for Sicily, Barcelona, or maybe Nice.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 17, 2020, 06:27:29 PM
We were talking about trying to do Christmas in Switzerland one year with our good friends who moved to NC. He lived there for about 9 months for his company right out of college, so knows the lay of the land. 

Then they had to go and procreate. So any Euro trips with them are probably sidelined a decade or so. 

Damn kids.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 17, 2020, 06:47:12 PM
2020 in one tweet

https://twitter.com/TheLeadCNN/status/1295483759517720578?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on August 17, 2020, 06:51:41 PM
You just like those Spanish women ;-)

Here's the methodology: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/methodology

 (https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/methodology)I don't know that I'd agree with Canada being there. But I could see some advantages to anywhere other than Canada in the top 10.
That I do. And the food. And the wine. And the sun. And the beaches. Spain is pretty awesome. And it's a lot more affordable than Switzerland, UK, or Germany.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on August 17, 2020, 06:55:56 PM
Sicily would be my choice over there.
I love Sicily. But I think that is more a long-vacation/retirement spot. Virtually no one there speaks English and it's a very poor country with not a lot going on. Nowhere to really shop or go out. 

Barcelona is a big city with mountains and beaches, museums, churches, casinos, great restaurants, plenty of nightlife- there is always something to do whether it's 1pm or 5am. Sicily is a little too small town for me to have to live there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 17, 2020, 07:03:12 PM
If I were looking for overseas residence, I'd give a long look to Ireland and Scotland.  The most beautiful countries (for me) that prioritize having a pub and beer on every block.  I took a bus tour through the Scottish countryside once and it was just perfect.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 17, 2020, 07:16:09 PM
That I do. And the food. And the wine. And the sun. And the beaches. Spain is pretty awesome. And it's a lot more affordable than Switzerland, UK, or Germany.
Yeah, if you dig into the rankings, Switzerland got absolutely slammed for cost of living. 

I've never been to Spain. I've never been to Switzerland, for that matter. 

Neither my wife and I are "beach" people though, which is odd considering we live ~10 miles from the Pacific Ocean. I'm a big fan of being in the shade and looking at the beach though ;-) 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 17, 2020, 07:36:23 PM
I think they wrote a song bout that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm6qw_yeo6o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm6qw_yeo6o)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 17, 2020, 10:48:01 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/xni3BQt.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 17, 2020, 10:54:39 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/xni3BQt.png)
poor bastage
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 17, 2020, 10:55:43 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/EBLMnof.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 17, 2020, 10:58:10 PM
Confucius was a wise man
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 18, 2020, 07:40:57 AM
Barcelona is probably my second favorite EU city behind Lyon.  Switzerland has a lot of cheese but I don't know what kind.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 18, 2020, 07:42:00 AM
I don't ask women if they are expecting.

Men either.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 18, 2020, 07:52:14 AM
Next year we will visit Munich and Lisbon. Looking forward to travelling again.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 18, 2020, 07:58:41 AM
We're slated for a Greek isle cruise out of Rome next fall.  I might delay that a year and replace it with the Baltic cruise out of C-hagen.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 18, 2020, 08:06:13 AM
I've never had any interest in a cruise up there. I guess I don't really want/need to visit any of the countries, except Sweden and possibly Poland.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 18, 2020, 08:32:40 AM
A cruise I would love to do goes like this:


Oahu, HI
Japan
South Korea
Okinawa
Taiwan
Australia
New Zealand
Samoa
Fiji
Tahiti
Lihue, HI
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 18, 2020, 08:55:42 AM
I've never had any interest in a cruise up there. I guess I don't really want/need to visit any of the countries, except Sweden and possibly Poland.
St. Petersburg was the highlight, for me, I'd like to spend a week there.   Getting a visa outside being off a cruise is problematic and expensive.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 18, 2020, 08:55:57 AM
Barcelona is probably my second favorite EU city behind Lyon.  Switzerland has a lot of cheese but I don't know what kind.


Swiss maybe?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 18, 2020, 08:57:50 AM
Swiss maybe?
Yeah, that was it, your smart.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 18, 2020, 08:59:17 AM
St. Petersburg was the highlight, for me, I'd like to spend a week there.  Getting a visa outside being off a cruise is problematic and expensive.
We've never stepped on Russian soil, and never will. I just can't.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 18, 2020, 09:06:53 AM
I'd like to visit Volgograd, but it seems unlikely.

I'd like to visit Iran, but not now obviously.

Turkey in on the schedule sometime next year probably.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 18, 2020, 09:16:17 AM
Probably never going to Turkey either. I'd like them to be expelled from NATO.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 18, 2020, 09:18:50 AM
My travel interests are more oriented to history and culture than scenery.  I'm fine with scenery, it's just not a big motivator for me overseas.

Vienna is on our schedule someday as well.  Florence.  Morrocco maybe.  South Africa maybe.  Asia somehow.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on August 18, 2020, 09:23:20 AM
I miss cruising....   we planned on doing a Mediterranean cruise in 2021.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 18, 2020, 09:29:22 AM
After Munich and Lisbon, we board the Azamara Quest from Lisbon to Miami. Cruising is a good way to get back from Europe. They change the clocks on the ship every-other-day. No jet lag. It's nice.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 18, 2020, 11:12:52 AM
St. Petersburg was the highlight, for me, I'd like to spend a week there.  Getting a visa outside being off a cruise is problematic and expensive.
Poking around looking for the Amber Room weren't you? - capitalistic pig dog
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 18, 2020, 11:22:23 AM
Have kind of a good deal going with my local beverage supplier at the corner.He has a back room filled with outdated beers or types not selling.Evidently he gets credits from the Beverage distributors for remaining units not purchased.Just bought a six of Shiner Holiday Cheer from last winter for 7 bucks bought some Fat Tire last week,if it's not IPAs I'm snatching it up.Of course I always buy the seasonals from local crafts there - Great Lakes Oktoberfest.There is always a hodge podge in the back room from 6-12 packs seperated from broken bottles or compromised cans.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 20, 2020, 11:03:00 AM
Not on my block!!



‘Fort Lori’: Chicago police ban protests on Mayor Lori Lightfoot’s block, order arrests for anyone who won’t leave


https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/ct-chicago-police-lightfoot-protests-20200820-57vxhaa57jhijo3xllrflztcse-story.html (https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/ct-chicago-police-lightfoot-protests-20200820-57vxhaa57jhijo3xllrflztcse-story.html)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 20, 2020, 11:09:20 AM
Not on my block!!



‘Fort Lori’: Chicago police ban protests on Mayor Lori Lightfoot’s block, order arrests for anyone who won’t leave


https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/ct-chicago-police-lightfoot-protests-20200820-57vxhaa57jhijo3xllrflztcse-story.html (https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/ct-chicago-police-lightfoot-protests-20200820-57vxhaa57jhijo3xllrflztcse-story.html)


kinda makes me want to go protest on the Mayor's block
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 20, 2020, 11:21:29 AM
Not on my block!!



‘Fort Lori’: Chicago police ban protests on Mayor Lori Lightfoot’s block, order arrests for anyone who won’t leave


https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/ct-chicago-police-lightfoot-protests-20200820-57vxhaa57jhijo3xllrflztcse-story.html (https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/ct-chicago-police-lightfoot-protests-20200820-57vxhaa57jhijo3xllrflztcse-story.html)




It did not distinguish between the peaceful protesters Lightfoot regularly says she supports and those who might intend to be destructive.

:sign0081:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 20, 2020, 11:33:52 AM
Not on my block!!



‘Fort Lori’: Chicago police ban protests on Mayor Lori Lightfoot’s block, order arrests for anyone who won’t leave


https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/ct-chicago-police-lightfoot-protests-20200820-57vxhaa57jhijo3xllrflztcse-story.html (https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/ct-chicago-police-lightfoot-protests-20200820-57vxhaa57jhijo3xllrflztcse-story.html)


people of privilege 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 20, 2020, 12:38:04 PM
Lyft will suspend service in California after ordered to classify drivers as employees

What about driverless cars?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 20, 2020, 12:39:19 PM
Those are employees too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2020, 12:41:48 PM
I think driverless will be one of the HUGE changes in our lives at some point, not only cars, but trucking as well.

I'm thinking 2035-2040.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 20, 2020, 12:45:48 PM
maybe, in 2040 I'll be 78 years young

might not change my life much at that time
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2020, 12:50:24 PM
I hope when I'm 78 to be still getting around.  The option of owning no car while having a car "on call" is appealing to me.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2020, 12:54:42 PM
https://bigthink.com/culture-religion/george-dantzig-real-will-hunting?rebelltitem=3#rebelltitem3 (https://bigthink.com/culture-religion/george-dantzig-real-will-hunting?rebelltitem=3#rebelltitem3)

The real Good Will Hunting character.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 20, 2020, 04:30:21 PM
Driving is a profession that has historically been a great source of income for relatively low-trained workers and will probably go away in the next couple of generations. I think driverless cars and trucks are a lot closer than 2035--the only question is how fast we adapt to them and make them the default. I fully intend that our model-year 2019 car will be our last.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 20, 2020, 04:35:01 PM
Are people really ready to give up driving? Seems like a reach for me. Lots of people really enjoy it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 20, 2020, 04:35:15 PM
Speaking of driving as a profession...

Uber and Lyft are suspending all services in California effective tonight at midnight. 

California says they have to treat their drivers as "employees", they say they need to completely change their business model to be able to do that. 

We'll see what happens.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 20, 2020, 04:37:12 PM
Appeals court issued a stay today; Uber and Lyft reportedly will not suspend pending the outcome of the underlying issue.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 20, 2020, 04:37:55 PM
Are people really ready to give up driving? Seems like a reach for me. Lots of people really enjoy it.
The sooner the better for me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 20, 2020, 04:40:12 PM
Are people really ready to give up driving? Seems like a reach for me. Lots of people really enjoy it.
In an instant. 

If I could safely get from point A to B and read a book, hold a conversation, or merely play on my phone instead of performing a menial task which requires attention and concentration to avoid killing myself or others, I'd do it.

Do I sometimes enjoy driving? Sure. My wife and I refer to going out in the Jeep as "Jeep therapy" because it's a way to unwind. Would I consider it a horrible loss if I could have every bit of the freedom and autonomy it allows me without having to actually perform the task? Nope. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 20, 2020, 04:44:05 PM
I don't mind driving, but long distances (like here to Florida) are a drain on me now. I don't like driving at night anymore either. The drive to Florida next month is going be 2 hotel nights, for sure. Maybe 3.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 20, 2020, 04:47:19 PM
I just got a quote for my move down to Florida. Everything is in storage right now.

The quote came from the Mayor of Palatine, IL, whose day job is sales for a large moving company.

He made the Pro Bowl as a special teams player, won a Super Bowl ring with the Cowboys, played many seasons for the Bears, is a commentator for 780AM on the Bears, and, oh, was a really good linebacker at Purdue.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 20, 2020, 04:48:47 PM
Appeals court issued a stay today; Uber and Lyft reportedly will not suspend pending the outcome of the underlying issue.
Thanks for the update. I only heard about the suspension of services about 2 hours ago; that must have moved fast!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 20, 2020, 04:51:45 PM
so, he thought, why not be the Mayor?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 20, 2020, 04:52:18 PM
I don't mind driving, but long distances (like here to Florida) are a drain on me now. I don't like driving at night anymore either. The drive to Florida next month is going be 2 hotel nights, for sure. Maybe 3.
Yeah, I can still drive long distances. Having a rolling La-Z-Boy (the Ford Flex) helps. 12+ hours is not really even a problem in that car.

I don't drive overnight hauls any more though. I just don't trust that I'd be able to stay awake in the wee hours. I'd be fine with a pre-dawn wakeup and go the first hour or two in the dark, but not something where I'd been up all day long and had to stay awake on the road until 2-3 AM.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 20, 2020, 05:01:21 PM
so, he thought, why not be the Mayor?
He's a good dude.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on August 20, 2020, 05:53:58 PM
His job is sales for a moving company....in the city he lives in where he is also the mayor.  Its not the moonlighting that is strange its the juxtaposition of duties.

'Let me help you move and get the !@#$ out of my city. '
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 20, 2020, 05:58:52 PM
Yeah, I can still drive long distances. Having a rolling La-Z-Boy (the Ford Flex) helps. 12+ hours is not really even a problem in that car.

I don't drive overnight hauls any more though. I just don't trust that I'd be able to stay awake in the wee hours. I'd be fine with a pre-dawn wakeup and go the first hour or two in the dark, but not something where I'd been up all day long and had to stay awake on the road until 2-3 AM.
I used to be really up for that. 

These days, no. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 20, 2020, 06:03:02 PM
Are people really ready to give up driving? Seems like a reach for me. Lots of people really enjoy it.
Not me. Driving a performance oriented car- away from traffic- remains a great pleasure 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 20, 2020, 06:04:35 PM
I just got a quote for my move down to Florida. Everything is in storage right now.

The quote came from the Mayor of Palatine, IL, whose day job is sales for a large moving company.

He made the Pro Bowl as a special teams player, won a Super Bowl ring with the Cowboys, played many seasons for the Bears, is a commentator for 780AM on the Bears, and, oh, was a really good linebacker at Purdue.
Be happy that you got a moving company to even quote you.

Because of my connection to the residential lending industry the word I continue to hear is there are places namely large cities like New York and Chicago and Seattle to give a few examples where people cannot move out fast enough and there aren’t enough moving companies there to help them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 20, 2020, 06:05:26 PM
Not me. Driving a performance oriented car- away from traffic- remains a great pleasure
That's what track days are for :72:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 20, 2020, 06:08:20 PM
Are people really ready to give up driving? Seems like a reach for me. Lots of people really enjoy it.
I think most would. The thing is it's so hit and miss. Sometimes it's a great pleasure, but most people don't really like their commutes. 

I had a few train commutes for internships, and man did I enjoy them, even though I gave up a measure of control of travel. Could get reading done. Not that there aren't moments of joyful driving, but I don't think most of it is. If my car became a super convenient personal train and I could knock out works on long drives, I'd be down for that. (On work trips, I often figure out a way for someone else to drive so I can get the laptop out)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 20, 2020, 06:17:03 PM
That's what track days are for :72:
Sweet!   Do you do track days?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on August 20, 2020, 06:32:51 PM
There are some times I'd be happy not to drive-- daily commute to work, going downtown for bars/live music.  Those lend themselves well to  ride-sharing and/or self-driving options.

There are some times I like to drive-- trips along the coast or through the hill country, offroading in the Jeep, wandering the countryside in search of small towns and hidden gems.

And there are some times that just aren't realistic or practical for me to hire ride-sharing or self-driving vehicles, like towing my boat or RV.

I think a lot of folks would happily give up driving over the next 15-20 years, but for some people, it will never be the 100% solution.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 20, 2020, 06:35:06 PM
Sweet!  Do you do track days?
I used to do so when I had the motorcycle.

Biggest adrenaline rush ever. Even moreso than jumping out of an airplane. 

Never done one in a car. I don't think either my Ford Flex or Jeep Wrangler would be great on a track lol...

But I highly recommend it. It's a whole different ballgame compared to anything you dare do on public roads. 

I've considered buying another motorcycle and ripping off anything that would make it street-legal to be purely a track bike. Or buying a track-only sporty car. Just haven't had time/room/money for such a "toy" unless I sell the Jeep, and I don't want to do that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2020, 07:02:04 PM
Most people I know don't like having to drive.  I do, so it works out.  

In about 20 years or so, having your own internal-combustion engine car will be akin to owning a boat today.  Relatively few will have one, they'll mostly use it on weekends, and it'll just be a luxury item.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 20, 2020, 07:07:57 PM
I used to do so when I had the motorcycle.

Biggest adrenaline rush ever. Even moreso than jumping out of an airplane.

Never done one in a car. I don't think either my Ford Flex or Jeep Wrangler would be great on a track lol...

But I highly recommend it. It's a whole different ballgame compared to anything you dare do on public roads.

I've considered buying another motorcycle and ripping off anything that would make it street-legal to be purely a track bike. Or buying a track-only sporty car. Just haven't had time/room/money for such a "toy" unless I sell the Jeep, and I don't want to do that.
https://www.monticellomotorclub.com/

this is one of a few tracks I’ve been able to drive on. My goodness is it a good time. I also got to drive on the Chicagoland speedway as part of the SRT Track experience. It’s amazing with those 45° banked curves how well the vehicle sticks when you’re sitting almost sideways to the ground but you’re going 150 miles an hour.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2020, 07:09:19 PM
Most people live in or near cities.  Driving in a city is not especially fun, trust me.  I suspect in most cities driving a car on most streets yourself will be illegal, or even impossible.  

You can pack cars tightly together at 70 mph with autonomous driving.  You can fly a plane today from X to Y with zero human intervention.  You can land one on a carrier deck in fact.  That's a bit different except in concept.

We might also see freeways redesigned for toll lanes with inductive recharging of batteries.  You zip along with power from the road and then when you exit to a side street you go to battery power.  If gasoline goes away, so does revenue from gas tax.

I ponder if mass transit is not obsolescent, including HSR.

That California HSR thing ended up being the worst possible end point I think.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 20, 2020, 07:28:21 PM
We might also see freeways redesigned for toll lanes with inductive recharging of batteries.  
Cincy, you're smarter than this. Let's not start peddling snake oil. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2020, 07:33:33 PM
Well, I could say we COULD  all have flying cars in 2040 of course.  It's possible.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 20, 2020, 07:41:00 PM
Well, I could say we COULD  all have flying cars in 2040 of course.  It's possible.
:smiley_confused1:

Unless we suddenly come upon a basically free and inexhaustible energy source, flying cars won't ever be a thing. You know this as a pilot.

When you're flying, a portion of your energy is spent getting where you want to go. A portion of your energy is also devoted to the various drag elements of your airplane that generate lift. 

When you're driving, all of your energy can go to propulsion. You don't need to expend energy to generate lift, because the weight of your vehicle and the opposing force of the ground keeping it from falling it into the earth are in balance. 

Therefore, flying cars are by definition much less energy-efficient than rolling cars. Nothing can possibly get around that fact unless you dramatically reduce the cost of energy, and I don't see that happening.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on August 20, 2020, 10:13:31 PM
I reject your conclusion that my Jetsons world will not exist.  Take it back.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 21, 2020, 07:01:21 AM
https://twitter.com/RupertMyers/status/1296388400631644161?s=20
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2020, 08:01:40 AM
Yeah, flying cars are "out there", inherently, and you have the air space thing to consider (thought that is amenable to control with computers I think).

The primary function of a wing is to covert drag into lift.  To get a thing "up" requires energy, a lot of it.  A car does have some rolling resistance and wind drag of course.

But as you say, the only part of that related to "lift" is meant to generate downforce, antilift.

Cars with a lot of downforce have a lower top speed than the same car with fewer "wings" on them (spoilers etc.).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 21, 2020, 08:06:07 AM
Most people I know don't like having to drive.  I do, so it works out. 

In about 20 years or so, having your own internal-combustion engine car will be akin to owning a boat today.  Relatively few will have one, they'll mostly use it on weekends, and it'll just be a luxury item. 
With many people living in urban areas, that may be the case. But us folks out here in rural America may beg to differ. There are many things we do with our vehicles that will not easily comport to autonomous vehicles such as farming, towing, snow plowing, etc. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2020, 08:26:00 AM
The vast majority of us live in (sub)urban areas, and that is where the vast majority of cars reside.  Farming items like plowing are amenable to autonomous now.

Imagine a slimmed down tractor with no cab and AC and stereo unit in it that plows off GPS signals i a pattern you determine on your computer.  Pretty simple.

Same with fertilizing.

But most cars will be autonomous, I suspect by 2035-2040.

And temporary renting with be the thing (Lyft/Uber).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 21, 2020, 09:41:15 AM
His job is sales for a moving company....in the city he lives in where he is also the mayor.  Its not the moonlighting that is strange its the juxtaposition of duties.

'Let me help you move and get the !@#$ out of my city. '
Mayor is a volunteer position. No moonlighting. The conflict is kinda ironic though.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 21, 2020, 09:42:31 AM
The vast majority of us live in (sub)urban areas, and that is where the vast majority of cars reside.  Farming items like plowing are amenable to autonomous now.

Imagine a slimmed down tractor with no cab and AC and stereo unit in it that plows off GPS signals i a pattern you determine on your computer.  Pretty simple.

Same with fertilizing.

But most cars will be autonomous, I suspect by 2035-2040.

And temporary renting with be the thing (Lyft/Uber).
All solar and wind powered.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2020, 10:02:57 AM
I think if (IF) we see most cars autonomous by 2040, they will mostly be EVs.  You won't need much range out of them, and they'd be borrowed.  Once one gets low it finds a recharging outlet.  Of course, this increases demand for E by about 30% or so.

Oops.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 21, 2020, 10:37:29 AM
and said charging outlet is automated w/o human interaction?

wireless charging?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 21, 2020, 10:45:15 AM
and said charging outlet is automated w/o human interaction?

wireless charging?
Nah. Oregon still has full-service gas stations. Not sure if NJ too or if they finally gave that up. 

How hard is it to have a plug jockey on hand at the charging station? Car pulls up, he/she runs out and plugs in, car signals when it's fully charged, he/she runs out and disconnects. 

All the rest (payment/etc) can be handled electronically with sensors. All the plug jockey needs to do is plug it in.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2020, 10:55:14 AM
and said charging outlet is automated w/o human interaction?

wireless charging?
I think if most cars are EVs and autonomous that this is pretty easily solvable even with cables.  Perhaps parking decks are converted to charging stations, they won't be needed in this version of the future (or not many of them).  Neither would we need subways and freeways necessarily, though they'd persist.

I think this world would significantly change the lives of many of us.

I've ridden in a Cadillac CT6 with Supercruise technology and was fascinated by it.  In some ways it is superior to the Tesla version.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 21, 2020, 01:00:50 PM
The vast majority of us live in (sub)urban areas, and that is where the vast majority of cars reside.  Farming items like plowing are amenable to autonomous now.

Imagine a slimmed down tractor with no cab and AC and stereo unit in it that plows off GPS signals i a pattern you determine on your computer.  Pretty simple.

Same with fertilizing.

But most cars will be autonomous, I suspect by 2035-2040.

And temporary renting with be the thing (Lyft/Uber).
I wasn't referring to tractors and combines. There are many of us that use trucks for many things for which autonomous vehicles would be impractical. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2020, 01:11:17 PM
There will certainly be uses for human operated vehicles, no doubt.

With cars, it might be like those holdovers today who drive manual transmissions.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 21, 2020, 01:16:41 PM
There will certainly be uses for human operated vehicles, no doubt.

With cars, it might be like those holdovers today who drive manual transmissions.
Its hard for me to imagine not wanting to drive a car
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2020, 01:25:25 PM
Yes, and for some, that will remain the case.  A lot of urban dwellers today have no car now, and others like us have one.  I think the younger folks are a lot less emotional about having a car, or a cool car, it's a tool for them.  Housewives, same thing.  I like to drive, I like to have a clutch, but I admit driving in the city is not much fun, and it's expensive.

So, my scenario in 15 years is that most cars will be autonomous, >50%, and those that are not may be driven "on weekends".

Joe Smith wakes up and makes  coffee and reads the paper quickly and goes outside just as his ordered car arrives, hops in, reads the paper, and exist at his office (presuming he goes to the office).  After work, he reverses the process, perhaps stopping off for milk on the way home.  A chain of autonomous cars flies by on the left 2 lanes of the freeway, or left four lanes, designated for such, bumper to bumper literally, at 80 mph (if we need capacity now).

His wife gets up and gets the kids ready for school.  An autobus arrives and they pile on.  She needs groceries and orders up a car to do that and stops to get her hair and nails done on the way.  On the way home, she visits her 19 year old paramour who is from Italy.  They go at it in the back seat while the autocar drives aimlessly.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 21, 2020, 01:35:53 PM
With cars, it might be like those holdovers today who drive manual transmissions.
Guilty as charged. I hate automatics. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2020, 01:53:55 PM
Guilty as charged. I hate automatics.
I don't hate them.  Today most are quite good, but I prefer to row my own.

There are more EVs sold today than cars with manual transmissions.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 21, 2020, 02:06:15 PM
I don't hate them.  Today most are quite good, but I prefer to row my own.

There are more EVs sold today than cars with manual transmissions.
I don't know if it's just my driving style, but automatics never seem to do what I want them to do.

And as the mileage goes up, they seem to get increasingly "sloppy" to me. <50K miles, they're fine. As you start getting beyond that, they seem to get loose. Downshifts seem to lag when you step on it. 

Maybe it's just the cars I've driven. The Flex seems to be doing this, just like other autos I've driven in the past and put on significant miles (Honda Odyssey, Toyota Sequoia). The wife's Lexus doesn't have that many miles yet, so we'll see if it does better as it ages. So far it seems pretty solid.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 21, 2020, 02:10:41 PM
Yes, and for some, that will remain the case.  A lot of urban dwellers today have no car now, and others like us have one.  I think the younger folks are a lot less emotional about having a car, or a cool car, it's a tool for them.  Housewives, same thing.  I like to drive, I like to have a clutch, but I admit driving in the city is not much fun, and it's expensive.

So, my scenario in 15 years is that most cars will be autonomous, >50%, and those that are not may be driven "on weekends".

Joe Smith wakes up and makes  coffee and reads the paper quickly and goes outside just as his ordered car arrives, hops in, reads the paper, and exist at his office (presuming he goes to the office).  After work, he reverses the process, perhaps stopping off for milk on the way home.  A chain of autonomous cars flies by on the left 2 lanes of the freeway, or left four lanes, designated for such, bumper to bumper literally, at 80 mph (if we need capacity now).

His wife gets up and gets the kids ready for school.  An autobus arrives and they pile on.  She needs groceries and orders up a car to do that and stops to get her hair and nails done on the way.  On the way home, she visits her 19 year old paramour who is from Italy.  They go at it in the back seat while the autocar drives aimlessly.


These urban dwellers are mostly in the north east area

Here in Texas you gotta have a car

I really dont think the desire to drive a car will be replaced the ability to order a ride when needed
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2020, 02:13:22 PM
80 percent


Roughly 80 percent of Americans live in urban areas, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.Dec 18, 2018


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 21, 2020, 02:18:02 PM
These urban dwellers are mostly in the north east area

Here in Texas you gotta have a car

I really dont think the desire to drive a car will be replaced the ability to order a ride when needed
I'm not sure how big the "car-sharing" market will be relative to the self-owned market. I know that's one of the predicted business models, but there are some headwinds. For example, big families. They may want to own a certain car of a certain size if your typical "rideshare" isn't a 7-passenger model. What if they have a dog and want to go to the dog park? Do they have to call for a car that allows a dog? What if they have young kids and need carseats. Do they install a carseat into their self-driving car and remove it where they go, EVERY time they go somewhere? And then those kids spill their Cheerios all over the inside of the car and do they get charged and additional cleaning fee? 

That said, if I had the choice between my Ford Flex and a fully level 5 autonomous Ford Flex, I'd take the autonomous version any day of the week. I may choose to own rather than rideshare, but this is a different consideration than whether I would choose to manually drive the car I own. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 21, 2020, 02:20:00 PM
80 percent


Roughly 80 percent of Americans live in urban areas, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.Dec 18, 2018



There's urban and then there's urban. I think most suburban areas are considered part of that "urban" designation that the census bureau made. 

Where I live, Orange County CA, is likely considered "urban". There ain't much in my life that's "walkable". You can't do much without a car, whether it's self-owned or shared. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2020, 02:29:02 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/m27aFiQ.png)

The idea is that even in suburbia, ride sharing would replace most privately owned vehicles.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 21, 2020, 02:33:06 PM
It is not hard to put 100 miles on your car, without leaving the community. 

Run to the lake for a swim? Bang! 20 miles each way. 

One other similar outing, you are already up to 80 miles. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 21, 2020, 02:35:33 PM
I don't know if it's just my driving style, but automatics never seem to do what I want them to do.

And as the mileage goes up, they seem to get increasingly "sloppy" to me. <50K miles, they're fine. As you start getting beyond that, they seem to get loose. Downshifts seem to lag when you step on it.

Maybe it's just the cars I've driven. The Flex seems to be doing this, just like other autos I've driven in the past and put on significant miles (Honda Odyssey, Toyota Sequoia). The wife's Lexus doesn't have that many miles yet, so we'll see if it does better as it ages. So far it seems pretty solid.
I'm starting to think it is your driving "style"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 21, 2020, 02:38:31 PM
I feel for 80% of the population

no wonder the year 2020 has been a shit show - folks are going mad being stacked on one another

and they're all close enough to spread a horrible virus
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2020, 02:56:57 PM
Yeah, I had to drive to my lawyer's place in Canton, GA, suburbia the whole way, 40 miles from me.

First time I had driven since surgery, my arm feels almost as good as it did presurgery, still have stitches.

I was surprised how heavy the traffic was.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 21, 2020, 03:23:08 PM
80 percent


Roughly 80 percent of Americans live in urban areas, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.Dec 18, 2018



you are hanging your theory on the definition of urban

There is a big difference between downtown Manhattan and downtown Houston
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2020, 03:27:02 PM
These urban dwellers are mostly in the north east area

Here in Texas you gotta have a car

I really dont think the desire to drive a car will be replaced the ability to order a ride when needed
That's because you're picturing a normal ride.  
When the vehicle internal layouts are altered and you're lounging on a love-seat instead of a car chair, you may change your tune.

The car's layout is what it is because there's a driver who shouldn't be distracted.  Remove that requisite and you've got all that cubic feet to play with and make as comfy and distraction-rich as you wish.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 21, 2020, 03:29:04 PM
I wonder if Sioux City, IA is considered urban?

population was 82,684 in the 2010 census
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 21, 2020, 03:32:01 PM
That's because you're picturing a normal ride. 
When the vehicle internal layouts are altered and you're lounging on a love-seat instead of a car chair, you may change your tune.

The car's layout is what it is because there's a driver who shouldn't be distracted.  Remove that requisite and you've got all that cubic feet to play with and make as comfy and distraction-rich as you wish.
Thats all fine and good but I and a lot of others find enjoyment out of driving

Horses are no longer as important as they were but I still like riding one
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 21, 2020, 03:34:18 PM
I'm really surprised at the number of horses that folks keep around as pets or hobbies.

I'm sure some folks are surprised at the amount of idiots that play golf
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 21, 2020, 03:53:10 PM
Thats all fine and good but I and a lot of others find enjoyment out of driving

Horses are no longer as important as they were but I still like riding one
Yeah, but I also realize that when we actually get to roads full of reliable Level 5 automation vehicles, I'll be MUCH safer than driving myself. And I'm part of the 90% of Americans who believe they are above-average drivers, so I think I'm pretty good behind the wheel. But I'm not as good as a computer that NEVER has a lapse of attention [assuming it's not Windows-based]. 

Plus... I drink. I want a car that I can go to a brewery, tell it "drive me home", be asleep and well above 0.08 in the front left seat, and have no worries about any legal consequences for doing so. 

Now, I *do* enjoy driving. I really enjoy performance driving. I'd be the type that would get a dedicated track car to have fun as a hobby, and let my fully autonomous truck tow it to and from the racetrack. I see absolutely no conflict between these ideas.
I'm really surprised at the number of horses that folks keep around as pets or hobbies.

I'm sure some folks are surprised at the amount of idiots that play golf
Grabbed an hour to hit the driving range this morning. 

Holy crap I need more practice. And I need to get back into shape. When I played a month ago, I just hit a half a bucket of warmup balls to make sure I remembered how to swing a club, and then played a full round. I didn't get fatigued because of the time between shots. But by the end of a medium bucket of balls with swing after swing, it was taking its toll. Towards the end of the bucket I wasn't getting any value out of the practice because I was fighting my body. When did I get old?

On the bright side, I'm getting closer to the point where I can make consistent contact with my 4 wood. I think the shaft is wrong, though, I've got a consistent fade that I'm not seeing in any of my irons. When I get back into practice and recover my swing, I think I need to see a clubfitter for a driver/FW fitting and get something that fits my body better. 

So... Back to your point, I'm basically saying that it's about to spend a whole bunch of time and money to get good at a meaningless game purely to waste time ;-) 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 21, 2020, 03:57:08 PM
don't wait until you're any older, it doesn't get easier

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s640x640/105317849_605453850087712_593200896586099594_o.png?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=CodeKp0O15sAX8BkAUt&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=7424d2f27d663afbf5ad714d81d6bd1b&oe=5F64795B)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 21, 2020, 03:57:43 PM
well at my age I wont live to see the day youre talking about and thats fine with me
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 21, 2020, 03:58:51 PM
don't wait until you're any older, it doesn't get easier

[img width=511.997 height=640 alt=Image may contain: text that says 'The Real Cost of Crazy Horse Horse Ladies buying a Horse: Horse: $5,000 Trailer to haul horse: $25,000 Truck to pull trailer: $50,000 Hobby Farm to keep the horse: $450,000 Bins, wheelbarrow, buckets, pitchfork, etc: Tack, blankets, halters: 2nd horse so 1st horse has a pal: $2,000 $2,500 Crazy Horse Ladies $5,000 Total: $530,500 ***Keep in mind these are start up costs and don't include: feed, blacksmith veterinary services']https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s640x640/105317849_605453850087712_593200896586099594_o.png?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=CodeKp0O15sAX8BkAUt&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=7424d2f27d663afbf5ad714d81d6bd1b&oe=5F64795B[/img]
or you can just go to a local dude ranch and ride for a lot less
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 21, 2020, 04:02:43 PM
In 1915 there were 26,000,000 horses in the US

Today there are 3,000,000

shame
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 21, 2020, 04:04:49 PM
or you can just go to a local dude ranch and ride for a lot less
I don't want to ride a dude or a horse
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2020, 04:05:23 PM
you are hanging your theory on the definition of urban

There is a big difference between downtown Manhattan and downtown Houston
No, I'm not, I'm including suburban.  Downtown big cities are all pretty similar, and the suburbs are all pretty similar.  Where I live is a bit of a hybrid.

There will still be some human operated vehicles for a while, I am GUESSING the 50-50 point is 2035-2040.

And the autocars will largely be like Uber/Lyft today, you order one up and it comes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2020, 04:05:58 PM
I took my kids to two different "dude ranches", best vacations we ever had.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 21, 2020, 04:12:35 PM
Buying a horse is to me like buying a boat. Unless you're going to become "horse people", and your weekend life is dominated by the horse, and that's what you want... Better to rent. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 21, 2020, 04:13:43 PM
Or... Make friends with "horse people" or "boat people". Ply them with alcohol and tasty food so they'll take you out for horseback rides or out on their boat. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 21, 2020, 04:38:23 PM
that's how I handle boating/fishing

I don't really care for horses
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2020, 04:43:06 PM
There are some really impressive horse farms north of me, which is nice because they break up the suburban sprawl with some real acerage.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on August 21, 2020, 04:58:30 PM
I can see wanting to devote entire weekends to boating/skiing, I've been doing it for over three decades.  I can't imagine devoting any time whatsoever to horses, but to each his own.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2020, 05:06:18 PM
It's sort of interesting to contemplate the major hobbies various folks have in this country and which appeal to you and not.

Boating
Playing at golf
Running (competitively)
Swimming
Playing bridge/chess/go/whatever
Travel of course
Racing (bikes/cars/horses/moles)
Reading
Gardening
Wood working
Chainsaw carving
Painting
Playing a musical instrument
Writing
Confabbing on some internet site
Astronomy
...

How many could a person really maintain?  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on August 21, 2020, 05:06:55 PM
Buying a horse is to me like buying a boat. Unless you're going to become "horse people", and your weekend life is dominated by the horse, and that's what you want... Better to rent.
As someone who grew up in a horse family, no truer words were ever spoken. 

Bicycles don't require 3 AM vet calls and needing to feed twice a day every day.

I still help out the organization from time to time, but on my terms.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 21, 2020, 05:18:07 PM
back when I was young & single, just out of college, had a decent job, disposable income

I had a dirt bike and street bike, 4-wheel dr hunting truck, a dozen guns for hunting and shooting, a bow for hunting, snowmobile, car, golf clubs, an expensive camera, my father had two boats and a 5th wheel camper I borrowed.  I was pit crew and backup driver for my buddy's 2 wheel drive pulling truck.

just didn't have time for so many hobbies
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 21, 2020, 05:38:34 PM
Buying a horse is to me like buying a boat. Unless you're going to become "horse people", and your weekend life is dominated by the horse, and that's what you want... Better to rent.
You can always spend the week end betting on them like I use to
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on August 21, 2020, 05:43:08 PM
I don't know if it's just my driving style, but automatics never seem to do what I want them to do.

And as the mileage goes up, they seem to get increasingly "sloppy" to me. <50K miles, they're fine. As you start getting beyond that, they seem to get loose. Downshifts seem to lag when you step on it.

Maybe it's just the cars I've driven. The Flex seems to be doing this, just like other autos I've driven in the past and put on significant miles (Honda Odyssey, Toyota Sequoia). The wife's Lexus doesn't have that many miles yet, so we'll see if it does better as it ages. So far it seems pretty solid.
Solved that problem, I lease my cars and exchange them well before 50K
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2020, 05:49:21 PM
I had over 100 K miles on my 2005 Caddy CTS, the transmission was still tight when I traded it.  I only traded it because the wife was driving it to work and she wanted a backup camera and AWD.  That Caddy was RWD and it you stepped on it in the wet around while making a sharp turn, the back would step out, over steer is the technical term.  

This GTI has a pretty good suspension, they seem to have dialed out the heavy understeer typical of FWD at the limits.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 21, 2020, 05:53:09 PM
Can you actually rent a horse? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 21, 2020, 05:58:15 PM
Solved that problem, I lease my cars and exchange them well before 50K
I bought my Ranger in 2003, didn't sell it until 2012 and then only because there were too many kids for a vehicle with only two functional seats. I bought my Jeep in 2012, still have it (but it's a toy now, not a daily driver). I bought my 2014 Flex in 2017, and the plan is to keep it at least until my eldest goes to college in ~2026. 

I never buy vehicles new; always used. And then I try to hang on to them for roughly a decade or so, so I get every dollar out of them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 21, 2020, 06:01:43 PM
Can you actually rent a horse?
I'm not sure you can reasonably "rent a horse" in the same way that you rent a car, but you can go horseback riding tours on a horse you don't own, which is effectively renting a horse. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2020, 06:06:08 PM
You can indeed rent a horse, but you shouldn't look him in the mouth.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 21, 2020, 06:10:34 PM
I'm not sure you can reasonably "rent a horse" in the same way that you rent a car, but you can go horseback riding tours on a horse you don't own, which is effectively renting a horse.

Though if you own a horse you can fry him up and eat him when you are tired of riding. Tougher to do that with a boat.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 21, 2020, 06:16:26 PM
I'm not sure you can reasonably "rent a horse" in the same way that you rent a car, but you can go horseback riding tours on a horse you don't own, which is effectively renting a horse.

Those are kind of ridiculous though. They walk at a snails pace, and they won't veer off of the official trail no matter what. 

Great if you want to take your city slicker family out for their first ever horseback ride. 

Not a very good substitute for someone that has actually been trained to ride a horse. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2020, 06:21:22 PM
There are rented rides that canter and gallop, and if you "rent" at a dude ranch, you definitely can canter and gallop.

You can also rent a horse on your own at any number of stables and do your own thing once your qualify.

Some places need people to ride their horses for exercise as the owners aren't around.

We galloped a lot at the dude ranches.  I would NOT do that today.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 21, 2020, 06:31:53 PM
Oh cool.  

The ones that I had seen were old, docile horses. A retirement gig, more or less. 

Like the Walmart greeters of the horse world.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2020, 07:01:42 PM
The trail rides in tourist areas are generally of that ilk.  One can easily find good horse riding with a bit of effort, usually out of the tourist areas.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 21, 2020, 08:51:50 PM
You can always spend the week end betting on them like I use to
why'd ya quit?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 21, 2020, 10:06:10 PM
Yes, and for some, that will remain the case.  A lot of urban dwellers today have no car now, and others like us have one.  I think the younger folks are a lot less emotional about having a car, or a cool car, it's a tool for them.  Housewives, same thing.  I like to drive, I like to have a clutch, but I admit driving in the city is not much fun, and it's expensive.

So, my scenario in 15 years is that most cars will be autonomous, >50%, and those that are not may be driven "on weekends".

Joe Smith wakes up and makes  coffee and reads the paper quickly and goes outside just as his ordered car arrives, hops in, reads the paper, and exist at his office (presuming he goes to the office).  After work, he reverses the process, perhaps stopping off for milk on the way home.  A chain of autonomous cars flies by on the left 2 lanes of the freeway, or left four lanes, designated for such, bumper to bumper literally, at 80 mph (if we need capacity now).

His wife gets up and gets the kids ready for school.  An autobus arrives and they pile on.  She needs groceries and orders up a car to do that and stops to get her hair and nails done on the way.  On the way home, she visits her 19 year old paramour who is from Italy.  They go at it in the back seat while the autocar drives aimlessly.
Reminds me of Westworld.  Where nothing can possibly go wrong . . . go wrong . . . go wrong . . . .
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 21, 2020, 10:12:46 PM
In 1915 there were 26,000,000 horses in the US

Today there are 3,000,000

shame
A lot of those horses were still pulling vehicles in cities.  And putting out a lot of manure that had to be cleaned up every day.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 21, 2020, 10:15:56 PM
I think I read that 1500 dead horses were left rotting on the streets of new york city each year back then
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 21, 2020, 10:23:48 PM
Today, in my Boss 302 Mustang, I was in and out of traffic with a new Shelby GT-350.  It has (I think) a 5.2-liter engine with a flat-plane crankshaft.  My car's heavily prepped 5.0-liter Coyote engine makes a very nice rumbling V8 sound, but the flat-plane 5.2 makes a different noise altogether, like the old Ford-Cosworth V8s used in Indy-car racing back in the day.  Gr-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 21, 2020, 10:24:28 PM
I think I read that 1500 dead horses were left rotting on the streets of new york city each year back then
I've seen pictures of some of them.  That was a tough life for a horse.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 21, 2020, 10:35:25 PM
The Pony Express was intense. They would run a horse as hard as they could, then switch it out for a fresh horse every ten miles.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 22, 2020, 07:28:29 AM
The flat plane crank does make a different kind of sound which is one reason most Ferraris sound whizzy.  It's kind of neat.  That crank of course would be "lumpy" at lower RPMs back in the day but they have mostly sorted that out.  The design seems to be "coming back".  All that is old is new again.

The changes in the designs of typical car engines over the past 100 years without changing the core concept is fascinating to me.  Usually, a thing will completely change technology, like vacuum tubes to transistors.  I guess rocket engines are similar.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 22, 2020, 07:33:38 AM
Those are kind of ridiculous though. They walk at a snails pace, and they won't veer off of the official trail no matter what.

Great if you want to take your city slicker family out for their first ever horseback ride.

Not a very good substitute for someone that has actually been trained to ride a horse.
It's fine for a date with a talented lady who loves horses.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 22, 2020, 07:52:07 AM
I used to  take my kids on trail rides, and when they were 6-7-8, the nose to tail "ride" was ideal.  There was a trail ride near the Smokies that featured cantering, I suspect they had to stop that.  Obviously, one can if so inclined rent "real horses" and take real rides, and take classes on equipage or whatever it is.

Our dude ranch experiences were superb, one in Wyoming and one in NC in the mountains.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 22, 2020, 08:39:29 AM
It's fine for a date with a talented lady who loves horses.


Man, you really left that one hanging over the plate! :57:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 22, 2020, 10:00:00 AM
I think I read that 1500 dead horses were left rotting on the streets of new york city each year back then
An we think NY is dirty and smelly now! 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 22, 2020, 10:03:30 AM
Buying a horse is to me like buying a boat. Unless you're going to become "horse people", and your weekend life is dominated by the horse, and that's what you want... Better to rent.
That slightly depends if you're a competitive horse person or just a has a horse person. 

I once nearly got dumped because I did not take seriously enough the sorrow at the death of a horse that had been in a GF's family for a while (this story would be better had I not gotten dumped a year-plus later. Oh well).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 22, 2020, 10:11:57 AM
Now when you guys are referencing "horse people" you are referring to Centaurs... right? 

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TqMTaQwyIrw/VKZMx9fTrJI/AAAAAAAABlg/LCLbV0_GOII/s1600/Centaurs_by_thegryph.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 22, 2020, 12:36:43 PM
That reminds me of that creepy thing from Greek Mythology I think that played the flute - the guy with the beard an horns.I've always hated the flute since then unless it was Jethro Tull
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 22, 2020, 12:43:24 PM
That would be a satyr.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 22, 2020, 02:28:59 PM
It's called satire, dummy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 22, 2020, 02:37:15 PM
A lot of those horses were still pulling vehicles in cities.  And putting out a lot of manure that had to be cleaned up every day.
Chicago just banned them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 22, 2020, 02:44:35 PM
What would happen if you did this to an Amish horse buggy? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdKxVoH-l2I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdKxVoH-l2I)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 22, 2020, 02:54:52 PM
What would happen if you did this to an Amish horse buggy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdKxVoH-l2I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdKxVoH-l2I)
we call guys like that a holes in Texas
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 22, 2020, 07:01:37 PM
What would happen if you did this to an Amish horse buggy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdKxVoH-l2I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdKxVoH-l2I)
Wow.  They advertise their own jackassery.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 22, 2020, 08:44:09 PM
Picked up a Sixer of Joe Thomas Kolsch by Great Lakes Brewing - good summer quencher.Interesting The style which originated from Cologne Germany is fermented with ale yeast,but then finished in cold temperatures like a lager
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 22, 2020, 08:51:55 PM
why'd ya quit?
Cindy and the accountant advised me too,course the book would always call me before closing shop for the evening.Asking if I'd like in on any of the investment opportunities
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2020, 08:43:01 AM
fun haters, those accountant types
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2020, 10:53:45 AM
Didn't get much sleep last night. Things in Kenosha are pretty bad right now. National Guard is on the way.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 24, 2020, 11:02:39 AM
Didn't get much sleep last night. Things in Kenosha are pretty bad right now. National Guard is on the way.
What is the scoop with that situation, as you see it? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2020, 11:12:54 AM
There is more to the story than you will see on the news. This much I know.

One of my neighbors on the dock lives up in town, next to a cop. Hopefully the full truth comes out.

I'll state that this guy is a felon. Looks like he will live.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2020, 11:23:14 AM
Peaceful protesters last night.



(https://i.imgur.com/HaQRR6U.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2020, 11:24:50 AM
The main drag. 3 of our favorite places to eat are not in good shape. Hopefully they can reopen. A mom and pop car dealer lost all of its inventory. 60 cars are burned up.

Smells bad around here.

(https://i.imgur.com/34d2891.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 24, 2020, 11:26:07 AM
There is more to the story than you will see on the news. This much I know.

One of my neighbors on the dock lives up in town, next to a cop. Hopefully the full truth comes out.

I'll state that this guy is a felon. Looks like he will live.
Well that's good. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2020, 11:27:18 AM
Peaceful protesters last night.



looking for trouble
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: WhiskeyM on August 24, 2020, 11:28:58 AM
There is more to the story than you will see on the news. This much I know.

One of my neighbors on the dock lives up in town, next to a cop. Hopefully the full truth comes out.

I'll state that this guy is a felon. Looks like he will live.

It looks bad for the police on the video.  The guy had his 3 kids in the car too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.jsonline.com/amp/3427347001
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2020, 11:30:50 AM
The main drag. 3 of our favorite places to eat are not in good shape. Hopefully they can reopen. A mom and pop car dealer lost all of its inventory. 60 cars are burned up.

Smells bad around here.

Frank's Diner OK?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2020, 11:53:52 AM
It looks bad for the police on the video.  The guy had his 3 kids in the car too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.jsonline.com/amp/3427347001
That's not the complete video.

He told police he was reaching for his own weapon, after being tazed FOUR f'ing times. Think he was a little f'd up on something?

The police are on leave now.

2 weeks ago a black man shot a Kenosha cop. There were no "protests" after that incident.

https://www.facebook.com/Kenoshapolice/photos/a.10151999394132207/10158452709392207/?type=3

 (https://www.facebook.com/Kenoshapolice/photos/a.10151999394132207/10158452709392207/?type=3)They found the suspect in Gary Indiana and he is now in custody. He is a full-on felon.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2020, 12:04:55 PM
Frank's Diner OK?
Yes, they were spared, but they are boarding up anyway, and closing for a while.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2020, 12:11:20 PM
What does this mean?

You're either a felon or not (he appears to be). And of course, felonies are relatively wide ranging in scope.
He served time for murder. All good.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 24, 2020, 12:20:11 PM
He served time for murder. All good.
So he was convicted for murder? Of some murder adjacent felony? Interesting. 

(I assume we're still talking about the Massey guy. Based on the version of his rap sheet that was published, they didn't have any murder, though if he did catch that, he managed to get out of it pretty quick)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2020, 12:22:46 PM
He served time for murder. All good.
Correction. He served time for felony substantial battery because the victim didn't die and attempted murder was plead down.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: WhiskeyM on August 24, 2020, 12:24:27 PM
That's not the complete video.

He told police he was reaching for his own weapon, after being tazed FOUR f'ing times. Think he was a little f'd up on something?

The police are on leave now.

2 weeks ago a black man shot a Kenosha cop. There were no "protests" after that incident.

https://www.facebook.com/Kenoshapolice/photos/a.10151999394132207/10158452709392207/?type=3

 (https://www.facebook.com/Kenoshapolice/photos/a.10151999394132207/10158452709392207/?type=3)They found the suspect in Gary Indiana and he is now in custody. He is a full-on felon.

I'm not trying to pass judgement.

Just saying it looked like something that would certainly spark unrest.

The question will certainly be why the police didn't subdue him prior to him getting into the car.  From what you said, sounds like they tried.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2020, 12:33:57 PM
Yeah, they did try. I will try to get the link for the full video from my friend.

You can hear the cop tell him to "drop it" three times. 

Anyway, this car dealer is out of business. His insurance does not cover civil unrest bullshit.

(https://i.imgur.com/yZjZMbs.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2020, 12:47:42 PM
So, IF the final story is one that the man was reaching for a gun .... that guy gets his cars back?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2020, 01:42:46 PM
Yeah, they did try. I will try to get the link for the full video from my friend.

You can hear the cop tell him to "drop it" three times.

Anyway, this car dealer is out of business. His insurance does not cover civil unrest bullshit.


insurance companies suck
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 24, 2020, 01:47:52 PM
I'm not trying to pass judgement.

Just saying it looked like something that would certainly spark unrest.

The question will certainly be why the police didn't subdue him prior to him getting into the car.  From what you said, sounds like they tried.


Perhaps if they cuffed him and then knelt on him, he wouldn't have been able to make his attempt to flee, or grab a gun, or whatever he was doing. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2020, 02:01:51 PM
Upstanding citizen, for sure. At least the police no longer have to search for him on the arrest warrant.


Online court records indicate Kenosha County prosecutors charged Blake on July 6 with third-degree sexual assault, trespassing and disorderly conduct in connection with domestic abuse. 

An arrest warrant was issued for Blake the following day.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2020, 02:02:12 PM
So, IF the final story is one that the man was reaching for a gun .... that guy gets his cars back?
They are toast.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 24, 2020, 04:01:53 PM
They are toast.
So nice of the Governor to share a healing message.  Lol.  It’s a tinderbox and he just lit the match.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2020, 04:06:59 PM
So nice of the Governor to share a healing message.  Lol.  It’s a tinderbox and he just lit the match. 
Pete Deates, president of the Kenosha Professional Police Association, issued this statement:

"Anytime deadly force is used, our hearts go out to those affected by it.  We assure you an independent investigation is being conducted by the Wisconsin Department of Justice, Division of Criminal Investigation.
"Until that investigation is completed, we ask that you withhold prejudgment about the incident and please the let process take place. Governor Evers’ statement on the incident was wholly irresponsible and not reflective of the hardworking members of the law enforcement community, not to mention the citizens of the City of Kenosha.
"As always, the video currently circulating does not capture all the intricacies of a highly dynamic incident.
We ask that you withhold from passing judgement until all the facts are known and released.

"We, along with the citizens of the great City of Kenosha, ask for peace and to let the process play out fairly and impartially.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 24, 2020, 04:18:36 PM
"As always, the video currently circulating does not capture all the intricacies of a highly dynamic incident.
We ask that you withhold from passing judgement until all the facts are known and released.

IOW, "we hope that due to the very long time frame of anything having to do with the legal system, you please allow your attention to shift to something else so that 8 months from now we can fully clear the officers involved of any wrongdoing."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2020, 04:31:20 PM
Good try, but Wisconsin law requires this to be completed within 30 days.

I doubt it will even take that long.

This place is like a war zone now. Curfew from 8PM to 7AM, for the entire County, East of I-94. Helicopters flying around. Armored vehicles.

Several large boats just vacated for Northpoint Marina to the South. Where they dock is next to a park - sitting ducks.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 24, 2020, 04:47:31 PM
Good try, but Wisconsin law requires this to be completed within 30 days.

I doubt it will even take that long.

This place is like a war zone now. Curfew from 8PM to 7AM, for the entire County, East of I-94. Helicopters flying around. Armored vehicles.

Several large boats just vacated for Northpoint Marina to the South. Where they dock is next to a park - sitting ducks.
The only thing at all that would clear the officers is if he was reaching for a weapon in the car
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2020, 04:56:36 PM
Yep. And since he was recorded as saying he was going to get his gun, he may well have been.

The video is not complete. It doesn't show him resisting arrest (on a warrant), doesn't show him being tazed multiple times, and doesn't have the audio. 

There is other video and audio out there. I saw it this morning on my friend's phone, but I cannot find it. Maybe it's deleted while the investigation is being completed?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2020, 05:16:06 PM
sure would be nice to have body camera footage and audio from all officers involved
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2020, 05:24:31 PM
I think we will have that eventually, when the investigation is done.

I have full confidence that the Wisconsin DOJ will do the right thing. If that means proving the shooting justified, great. If that means arresting the officer(s) for murder, great.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 24, 2020, 05:28:14 PM
According to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, the Kenosha police don't have body cameras (budgeted for 2022), but have dash cams. No word at present as to whether said dash cams captured what we don't see before the video of the shooting that is widely available.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 24, 2020, 05:30:21 PM
What ever happened to tasers?  This zero-to-murder crap is absurd.  The police have access to tons of non-lethals.  USE THEM.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2020, 05:36:11 PM
What ever happened to tasers?  This zero-to-murder crap is absurd.  The police have access to tons of non-lethals.  USE THEM.
They don't always work, obviously.  One report indicated four Taserings did not slow this fellow down.  I'll await an actual fact based analysis.

I have seen a fair number of shootings that followed attempts to subdue the suspect with Tasers that were ineffective.  The other nonlethals they have require close quarters, and are not always nonlethal.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 24, 2020, 05:59:36 PM
What ever happened to tasers?  This zero-to-murder crap is absurd.  The police have access to tons of non-lethals.  USE THEM.
Based on how often they don’t work, might there be a case they’re just not all that effective 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 24, 2020, 06:02:25 PM
Pete Deates, president of the Kenosha Professional Police Association, issued this statement:

"Anytime deadly force is used, our hearts go out to those affected by it.  We assure you an independent investigation is being conducted by the Wisconsin Department of Justice, Division of Criminal Investigation.
"Until that investigation is completed, we ask that you withhold prejudgment about the incident and please the let process take place. Governor Evers’ statement on the incident was wholly irresponsible and not reflective of the hardworking members of the law enforcement community, not to mention the citizens of the City of Kenosha.
"As always, the video currently circulating does not capture all the intricacies of a highly dynamic incident.
We ask that you withhold from passing judgement until all the facts are known and released.

"We, along with the citizens of the great City of Kenosha, ask for peace and to let the process play out fairly and impartially.



Should always let the process play out. Thus, we shouldn’t have any cops calling that other guy guilty until the verdict or plea is in.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 24, 2020, 06:05:56 PM
Should always let the process play out. Thus, we shouldn’t have any cops calling that other guy guilty until the verdict or plea is in.
Where do you see that? Certainly not in that statement you quoted.  
 
The only public statement that’s been made by a person of authority, was by the Democratic governor who basically claimed by inference that this was a senseless, ruthless murder.

I just don’t know why an elected official would make such a stupid statement at this point in time. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2020, 06:10:44 PM
I just don’t know why an elected official would make such a stupid statement at this point in time.
because most elected officials are stupid as hell
they couldn't get a real job.....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2020, 06:15:04 PM
What ever happened to tasers?  This zero-to-murder crap is absurd.  The police have access to tons of non-lethals.  USE THEM.
They did. FOUR TIMES.

He was messed up on something, or they couldn't get through his clothing. One of the two. I'll assume the former, since he has a history with drug arrests.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 24, 2020, 06:37:26 PM
Badge, where are you getting that info? I haven't found it in the JS, the local Kenosha media that shows up online, or the national outlets, but it seems at least relevant. Nothing at all about additional video...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 24, 2020, 06:49:07 PM
Are they expecting another round of riots this evening? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2020, 06:52:38 PM
I'm guessing, YES
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 24, 2020, 07:05:00 PM
Badge should booby trap his house to the point that only he and his know how to get in safely. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 24, 2020, 07:06:20 PM
They have deployed National Guard which I think is the right move
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2020, 07:08:49 PM
obviously the right move
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 24, 2020, 08:39:23 PM
Badge should booby trap his house to the point that only he and his know how to get in safely.
FWIW, that's against the law.  Badge would be liable for injuries resulting from a booby trap.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2020, 08:43:58 PM
but, it makes for entertaining video footage

besides, don't think Badge has a house in the area any longer
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on August 24, 2020, 09:27:48 PM
Yes, the spring loaded doors to protect your cabin 'up north' is not something you're going to get away with, at least in a civil action (a tort).   Jurisdictions may or may not explicitly prohibit their use or treat their use as a criminal act, but as a civil matter, you're going to lose badly.     Torts and Property classes weren't my favorite in law school, but they sure do bring the best hypotheticals into the classroom.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 24, 2020, 10:22:10 PM
FWIW, that's against the law.  Badge would be liable for injuries resulting from a booby trap.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3a/11/68/3a116884945f870924f1ffd3f36fc015.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 25, 2020, 08:27:39 AM
FWIW, that's against the law.  Badge would be liable for injuries resulting from a booby trap.
Do you think considering the present state of affairs law enforcement would find evidence against such an individual?

Police Chief "Inspector Nubbz,what evidence have you found?"

Insp.Nubbz  "COVID,sir"

Police Chief  "Insp.Fearless?"

Insp.Fearless "Same-same,sir"

Police Chief  "Inspector CWS,how about you?"

Insp.CWS    "Overwhelming so sir,that or Aliens"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2020, 08:33:54 AM
If you design a Taser to be used at some distance, say 12 feet, with sufficient MV to penetrate clothing, it could cause pretty serious injury to someone if it hit bare skin.  So, they don't.  And the result is that the prongs may not penetrate clothing, especially in winter (which it isn't).

And if the suspect is high on uppers, it may not have much effect on him.

If indeed they hit this guy four times with a Taser, either he's very high on something or the Tasers somehow all failed.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2020, 08:38:22 AM
Long night. Finally started pouring rain about 2AM, and I went to sleep.

My booby trap consisted of an AR and a 357. The assholes did not get into the marina. 

Lucky for them.

(https://i.imgur.com/DrREFb3.jpg)


The thug who was shot... he will get justice. I hope he likes orange clothing.

Oh, and those ^^^ women need to find jobs.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2020, 08:39:39 AM
Badge, where are you getting that info? I haven't found it in the JS, the local Kenosha media that shows up online, or the national outlets, but it seems at least relevant. Nothing at all about additional video...
No longer available online. The edited video that keeps getting shown by the national "news" is not the whole story.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2020, 08:41:52 AM
I'm sure we all want justice, for that dude, the police, and anyone else, like the used car lot owner.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 25, 2020, 08:46:21 AM
insurance companies suck
Well, yeah. But in this case, people rioting and looting suck. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 25, 2020, 08:50:07 AM
What ever happened to tasers?  This zero-to-murder crap is absurd.  The police have access to tons of non-lethals.  USE THEM.
Apparently you have selective reading skills as this has already been addressed.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2020, 08:53:11 AM
Maybe someone will try the "shoot the gun out of his hand" concept now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2020, 08:59:46 AM
Anyone who has ever been trained knows that you shoot for mass. You hit a drugged up thug in the leg, he can still shoot back.

I don't know if this is going to go for a third night. Rioters were called in from Chicago, Madison and Milwaukee for last night's festivities. I'll monitor the thug social media sites and make a decision on whether we will vacate later today.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 25, 2020, 09:00:08 AM
Maybe someone will try the "shoot the gun out of his hand" concept now.
It has already been done by the Columbus Ohio SWAT team in 1993.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhECHpArQSg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhECHpArQSg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 25, 2020, 09:02:03 AM
Anyone who has ever been trained knows that you shoot for mass. You hit a drugged up thug in the leg, he can still shoot back.

I don't know if this is going to go for a third night. Rioters were called in from Chicago, Madison and Milwaukee for last night's festivities. I'll monitor the thug social media sites and make a decision on whether we will vacate later today.
I noticed in an earlier post that you have a couple of weapons available to you. Good. However, If you have the opportunity to pull out, it would most likely be a good decision to do so.

But whatever the case, stay safe. I don't envy your situation. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 25, 2020, 09:16:53 AM
Apparently you have selective reading skills as this has already been addressed.
He is also a dishonest halfwit, so it could have been any number of things. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2020, 09:21:23 AM
Unfortunately, my "situation" has been caused by others, who have little regard for the damage they do to working people and businesses.

For me and how I think... I'm already skeptical of an organization (BLM) whose leaders openly admit to being Marxist. When they get behind events like the last two nights, calling in professional rioters from other cities? 

Do they really think people like me are going to get behind their cause? People like me, who work, provide jobs, invest in the community? I don't even know what their cause is anymore, other than to "cause" damage to others. F them.

People like me would like to put these thugs in jail.

Yes, I'm pissed.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2020, 09:25:59 AM
Despite the rain, my boat is COVERED with ashes. Thankfully it's just ashes and it wasn't sparks. We'd be dead.

These sick assholes need to be made to pay for their actions.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 25, 2020, 09:34:46 AM
While it would indeed be fun to mow down a group of looters with your AR15, they are not worth the legal ramifications that you would face as a result. 

Thus, evacuation is the best course of action, imo. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 25, 2020, 09:37:38 AM
While it would indeed be fun to mow down a group of looters with your AR15, they are not worth the legal ramifications that you would face as a result.

Thus, evacuation is the best course of action, imo.
(https://i.imgur.com/Wk2SDg7.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2020, 09:39:10 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Wk2SDg7.png)
Which has what to do with what?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2020, 09:39:43 AM
Here is a pretty good (not good) rundown of what things looked like around here last night.

https://twitter.com/ShelbyTalcott/status/1298107194051887106 (https://twitter.com/ShelbyTalcott/status/1298107194051887106)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 25, 2020, 09:42:19 AM
Which has what to do with what?
Same energy
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2020, 09:47:18 AM
City and law enforcement leaders in Kenosha, Wisconsin, unanimously endorsed the use of body cameras in 2017 as a way to increase police accountability and collect evidence at scenes of domestic violence, among other benefits.

But since then, they have balked at the price tag, raised policy concerns and put off implementation. The delays meant that officers who were on the scene of Sunday’s shooting of Jacob Blake while responding to a domestic call were not equipped with technology that could give their perspective on an incident that has roiled the nation.


“This is a tragedy. But at least some good could come from this if this is finally the incident where Kenosha says, ‘we’ve got to get body cameras on these cops right away’,” said Kevin Mathewson, a former member of the common council.

Kenosha Mayor John Antaramian confirmed Monday that current plans call for the city to buy them in 2022 — more than five years after he endorsed their adoption. Kenosha officers do have cameras in their squad cars, but it’s unclear whether any captured the shooting.

Mathewson pushed the city to buy cameras during his tenure on the council from 2012 to 2017, saying he saw them as a tool to remove bad police officers from the department after a series of troubling use-of-force and misconduct incidents. Body cameras became particularly popular nationwide as a way to improve policing after the 2014 fatal shooting of Michael Brown, a Black 18-year-old, by a white officer in Ferguson, Missouri.

Mathewson recalled proposing a budget amendment to buy the equipment in early 2017 and hitting resistance from the mayor, police chief and other council members, who argued that would be unwise without clear state regulations governing their use.


Kenosha initially planned to buy the cameras this year, but funding shortfalls and technological concerns prompted the city to push that back to 2022, said Rocco LaMacchia, chairman of the council’s public safety committee.

“We have moved it back so many times,” he said. “I got a feeling this is going to move up on the ladder really fast because of what’s going on around the United States right now. Body cameras are a necessity. There’s no doubt about it.”

Of the Blake shooting, he said, “The body camera footage on this one would have told right from wrong right away.”

The city’s current plans call for purchasing 175 Axon body cameras from Taser International and a five-year evidence storage and maintenance plan in 2022. After the first year, the city would incur an estimated $145,000 cost annually for using Evidence.com to store video evidence.


He said the cameras are helpful but have not turned out to be the game-changing reform that many had hoped. One reason: Some officers fail to activate their cameras during life-and-death encounters, he said.

An increasing number of studies also suggest the cameras do not change how often officers use force.

In Milwaukee, officers used slightly less force after starting to wear cameras at first but then returned quickly to normal levels, said Daniel Lawrence, a researcher at the Urban Institute in Washington, D.C., who studied their adoption.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 25, 2020, 10:02:37 AM
Michael Brown was caught on Camera smacking around an elderly black man and an immigrant store owner as he robbed the store.Then not surrendering his weapon as he waved it around right in front of the cop.The only reason his name is brought up I think is to show the importance of a body cam.I hope justice is served and this blatant vandalism ceases
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2020, 10:10:45 AM
Same energy
Minus the violence.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 25, 2020, 10:14:31 AM
While it would indeed be fun to mow down a group of looters with your AR15, they are not worth the legal ramifications that you would face as a result.

Thus, evacuation is the best course of action, imo.
Ahhh yes, a reminder both that thuggishness is just a matter of perspective and that despite the importance of firearms in our body of law, we can't avoid consistently treating them with a certain puerile attitude. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2020, 10:20:16 AM
I would use them if I had to. Thankfully, I have not had to make that decision.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2020, 10:23:40 AM
I personally would avoid use of a gun unless necessary.  I would not view it as any kind of fun to shoot another human, ever.

It might be necessary, but not fun.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 25, 2020, 10:32:20 AM

For me and how I think... I'm already skeptical of an organization (BLM) whose leaders openly admit to being Marxist. When they get behind events like the last two nights, calling in professional rioters from other cities?

I don't think you can call them professionals. That implies pay, and probably consistent pay.

I think they're more of hobbyist rioters. But like serious hobbyists.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2020, 10:38:23 AM
The DJIA is swapping out three stocks primarily because of the Apple split, which goes to show what an odd kind of average it is.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2020, 10:54:54 AM
Interesting.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2020, 10:58:57 AM
I don't think you can call them professionals. That implies pay, and probably consistent pay.

I think they're more of hobbyist rioters. But like serious hobbyists.
Many of them do get paid a nominal fee. Last night, carloads were coming from Milwaukee and Chicago, on I-94. License plates covered and all that. State police had most of the exits blocked, but still, many found their way in.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 25, 2020, 11:10:16 AM
Ahhh yes, a reminder both that thuggishness is just a matter of perspective and that despite the importance of firearms in our body of law, we can't avoid consistently treating them with a certain puerile attitude.
Perhaps they can visit a neighborhood near you then you can so elquently deal with them with your wise counsel
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2020, 11:16:30 AM
I would guess in some cases protests may attract looters from outside, at night, the compensation being ability to loot without consequence.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 25, 2020, 11:25:01 AM
I would guess after seeing this for quite some time it's a planned ruse.Supposed peaceful protesters then thugs come in behind them and fan out.Like a flying wedge of derelicts
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 25, 2020, 11:41:03 AM
Perhaps they can visit a neighborhood near you then you can so elquently deal with them with your wise counsel

Who is them? Protesters near me? Poor folks who are all thugs in some folks eyes? The neighborhood comprised entirely of violent folks? A neighborhood full of violent protesters and Antifa folks?

Anyway, if one thinks it would be fun to mow down folks with a firearm, I'll point out it's pretty gross and childish. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 25, 2020, 11:47:08 AM
Many of them do get paid a nominal fee. Last night, carloads were coming from Milwaukee and Chicago, on I-94. License plates covered and all that. State police had most of the exits blocked, but still, many found their way in.


Of this I am skeptical. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 25, 2020, 11:55:40 AM
Who is them? Protesters near me? Poor folks who are all thugs in some folks eyes? The neighborhood comprised entirely of violent folks? A neighborhood full of violent protesters and Antifa folks?

Anyway, if one thinks it would be fun to mow down folks with a firearm, I'll point out it's pretty gross and childish.


Of course I was suggesting a completely different course of action; getting the hell out of dodge before it comes down to that. aka, the "non-violent" approach. 


 :91:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 25, 2020, 12:06:53 PM
Who is them? Protesters near me? Poor folks who are all thugs in some folks eyes? The neighborhood comprised entirely of violent folks? A neighborhood full of violent protesters and Antifa folks?

Anyway, if one thinks it would be fun to mow down folks with a firearm, I'll point out it's pretty gross and childish.
Nice spin,those that are burning down buildings,car lots and smashing businesses.When did I say poor folks?That I have more in common with than the 1%ers.Try reading before belching preconcieved notions.It is a fervant wish that IF this behavior continues that they pay you a visit ASAP and you can share with the congregation how righteous and warrented their destruction of your home/hearth is/was.Hopefully you won't be trapped anywhere inside when these luminaries decide to put the torch to it.

I have friends in Cleveland with shops - you know the people that contribute to society and provide a service and pay taxes that you show no concern for.There was a slow climb out of the financial abyss from COVID,only to be tossed back into ruin when your snowflakes wrecked the furniture shop and beverage business.The mechanics shop was left standing his friends were not so fortunate
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 25, 2020, 12:11:29 PM
He said the cameras are helpful but have not turned out to be the game-changing reform that many had hoped. One reason: Some officers fail to activate their cameras during life-and-death encounters, he said.

An increasing number of studies also suggest the cameras do not change how often officers use force.

In Milwaukee, officers used slightly less force after starting to wear cameras at first but then returned quickly to normal levels, said Daniel Lawrence, a researcher at the Urban Institute in Washington, D.C., who studied their adoption.
It's not a game-changing reform in that it will cause cops to say "pretty please with sugar on top, sir, would you please enter this squad car?" That's not the point. 

The point is having a visual record in the case of a dispute over the facts, after the fact, so that it's not merely "virtuous and trustworthy policeman said X vs accused criminal with no credibility said Y". Because we know how that usually ends. Regardless of the facts, the police's statements are believed and the "perp's" aren't. But what we've seen is that when external video is available, often you realize that the police's version of the facts don't match reality. 

As an example, have you followed the Masai Ujiri incident? This came up on ESPN the other day. He's the President of the Toronto Raptors. He's black. After the Raptors clinched the NBA finals last year, he was approaching the court (in a more impeccable suit than I'll ever own) to celebrate with his team, pulling out his credential, and the sheriff's deputy who was working courtside just absolutely SHOVED him out of nowhere, twice. 

That's not the issue. The sheriff's deputy then spent a year trying to sue Ujiri for initiating the altercation, and claimed he'd suffered a concussion during the incident. It's only with Ujiri filing a countersuit that anyone got access to the body cam footage, showing that the deputy not only initiated the action, but that Ujiri did not retaliate, did not escalate, and never in any way struck the deputy. 

There are probably some people who believe that the cops should never use force. I'm not one of those people. The advantage of body cam footage (and other surveillance) is that sometimes cops use force that isn't justified, and prior to having video, they were never held accountable. With body cam footage we can review the incident and try to at least have a good basis for the justification. If the body cam footage shows the cops are justified, then that protects the cops. Why would they not want that protection when someone has spurious claims of police brutality and they can go to the footage and show that they were 100% justified in what they did (or that they didn't do anything--which might also sometimes be the case). 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2020, 12:19:48 PM
Of this I am skeptical.
One example, after a quick search for "paid protester".


Former NYPD (https://www.foxnews.com/category/us/us-regions/northeast/new-york) Lt. Darrin Porcher warned about paid demonstrators infiltrating ongoing protests and riots and emphasized the importance of communities working with law enforcement (https://www.foxnews.com/category/us/crime/police-and-law-enforcement).

"As a former NYPD lieutenant, I refer back to me being a practitioner in New York City and the many instances we had -- what we referred to as paid agitators," he told Fox News' Arthel Neville on Saturday.

"These were people who were paid by specific groups to come in and quote, unquote, raise a level of anarchy -- throwing things, just creating somewhat of a miscreant society ... We knew who a lot these people were. because you would see them at one demonstration. Then a week later you would see the same demonstrator or agitator protesting all over again. They knew nothing nor cared anything about what the actual event was involved around."

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2020, 12:53:20 PM
There are probably some people who believe that the cops should never use force. I'm not one of those people. The advantage of body cam footage (and other surveillance) is that sometimes cops use force that isn't justified, and prior to having video, they were never held accountable. With body cam footage we can review the incident and try to at least have a good basis for the justification. If the body cam footage shows the cops are justified, then that protects the cops. Why would they not want that protection when someone has spurious claims of police brutality and they can go to the footage and show that they were 100% justified in what they did (or that they didn't do anything--which might also sometimes be the case).
I believe the cops should have used force last night in Kenosha and there are obviously many times when they need to and should.

I'm only guessing, but logically it would seem the cops don't want the "protection" because most times it's not needed and also most times the cops are afraid the footage will protect the citizen and show they are guilty of using excessive force.

in other words, the cops don't want to be held accountable because they're asshats
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 25, 2020, 01:00:54 PM
Nice spin,those that are burning down buildings,car lots and smashing businesses.When did I say poor folks?That I have more in common with than the 1%ers.Try reading before belching preconcieved notions.It is a fervant wish that IF this behavior continues that they pay you a visit ASAP and you can share with the congregation how righteous and warrented their destruction of your home/hearth is/was.Hopefully you won't be trapped anywhere inside when these luminaries decide to put the torch to it.

I have friends in Cleveland with shops - you know the people that contribute to society and provide a service and pay taxes that you show no concern for.There was a slow climb out of the financial abyss from COVID,only to be tossed back into ruin when your snowflakes wrecked the furniture shop and beverage business.The mechanics shop was left standing his friends were not so fortunate
Not spin, misread the structure of the first sentence. That's my bad. Ignore the first graph. 

I'm not talking about the protesters at all in this case. I'm talking about the idea that taking lives would be fun. I'm not even arguing it wouldn't be necessary, but it ain't fun. And if it is fun, that would show they're not much of a gap between those destroying property and those decrying it. 

To be clear, I think the property damage is terrible. I also think the government taking lives is terrible, though a necessity at points. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 25, 2020, 01:04:58 PM
One example, after a quick search for "paid protester".


Former NYPD (https://www.foxnews.com/category/us/us-regions/northeast/new-york) Lt. Darrin Porcher warned about paid demonstrators infiltrating ongoing protests and riots and emphasized the importance of communities working with law enforcement (https://www.foxnews.com/category/us/crime/police-and-law-enforcement).

"As a former NYPD lieutenant, I refer back to me being a practitioner in New York City and the many instances we had -- what we referred to as paid agitators," he told Fox News' Arthel Neville on Saturday.

"These were people who were paid by specific groups to come in and quote, unquote, raise a level of anarchy -- throwing things, just creating somewhat of a miscreant society ... We knew who a lot these people were. because you would see them at one demonstration. Then a week later you would see the same demonstrator or agitator protesting all over again. They knew nothing nor cared anything about what the actual event was involved around."


This doesn't really show me someone was paid. It shows me a former cop thinks people were paid, which is nice, but doesn't overcome my skepticism. 

(To be fair, I'm also somewhat skeptical of the police in general, in part because they tend to be allowed a great bit of leeway and deference and often use all of it)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2020, 01:09:57 PM
Here is a different video, showing him resisting, getting up and running away, leaning into his car.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1297866797060771842 (https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1297866797060771842)


It's a little shaky, but there is a better version of it down the thread a bit.

The moral here should be that when a cop asks to you put your hands up... put your damn hands up.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2020, 01:11:09 PM
It probably wouldn't take many "paid agitators" to heat up an already unstable situation.  It might be say two guys who rather covertly break windows of businesses to enable looting or start fires, etc.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2020, 01:17:25 PM
I think in every case some crime has received public notice usually because of video, the final story had included a LOT of salient details not evident in the first analysis.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 25, 2020, 01:18:56 PM
Here is a different video, showing him resisting, getting up and running away, leaning into his car.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1297866797060771842 (https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1297866797060771842)


It's a little shaky, but there is a better version of it down the thread a bit.

The moral here should be that when a cop asks to you put your hands up... put your damn hands up.
That video doesn't really show much. I think its a cop that's on him when he's on the ground, but I can't really tell. 

The fallout of that moral is kinda fascinating. The phrasing is a little weird, because asking isn't really the right verb. But still, interesting fallout. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2020, 01:21:57 PM
Lots of people don't respect police anymore. We may not need to worry about that because not a lot of people want to be police right now. Of course, we need to worry about that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2020, 01:26:23 PM
That video doesn't really show much. I think its a cop that's on him when he's on the ground, but I can't really tell.

The fallout of that moral is kinda fascinating. The phrasing is a little weird, because asking isn't really the right verb. But still, interesting fallout.
It shows a whole lot more than the edited viral video shows.

It shows the struggle I spoke about, and was asked to provide. It shows the resisting arrest (on a warrant) I spoke about, and was asked to provide.

It was probably started after the tazing was done. That's my assumption.

If the neighbors weren't trying to help the guy, we'd be able to see better.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2020, 01:27:14 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/us/jacob-blake-struggling-police-officersshot-new-video-shows (https://www.foxnews.com/us/jacob-blake-struggling-police-officersshot-new-video-shows)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 25, 2020, 02:17:17 PM
Lots of people don't respect police anymore. We may not need to worry about that because not a lot of people want to be police right now. Of course, we need to worry about that.
We've seen an overall degradation of respect for a variety of institutions. I'd assume much of it has to do with understanding those institutions and their flaws better. 

And you're right, it's a hard job for sure. Harder still when stricter standards of lawfulness are asked for by some. I'll be interested to see if some of that, and the entitlement that comes with it can be stamped out in later generations. I hope so. (It becomes interesting. Law enforcement has been allowed to slide on certain standards for so long, and yet some other standards get raised to impossible levels)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2020, 02:31:37 PM
Lots of hurt on this business owner's face. I'm guessing she won't be starting another one.

https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/in-photos-uptown-kenosha-after-the-riots-fires-damage-cleanup/collection_24e1f602-3baf-530f-ba89-f2a095a3d3bd.html#8 (https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/in-photos-uptown-kenosha-after-the-riots-fires-damage-cleanup/collection_24e1f602-3baf-530f-ba89-f2a095a3d3bd.html#8)



(https://i.imgur.com/HC2tVwN.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 25, 2020, 02:46:24 PM
To me- it boils down to the question nobody seems to want to answer;

When you’re engaged in any situation with a law-enforcement officer, and they ask you to either submit, or to put your hands behind your back to be cuffed, or to stand and be still so they can settled the situation etc.,
Are citizens obligated to obey their requests.   If not- then the implications are enormous.   A person can simply get in their car and drive away from a crime scene or from being arrested.

If yes- then those who do not subject themselves to the use of force.  

The use of force is not an exact science.  It is dynamic, difficult to measure while being applied and risky as to how it ends. Especially when law-enforcement is dealing with a repeat offender with open warrants, a history of violence, and often times substantially under the influence of some kind of substance.

When these situations arise why is it always ignored that the person dealing with law-enforcement has not only completely refused to obey their directives but has in so many cases turned violent themselves.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2020, 02:49:48 PM
When these situations arise why is it always ignored that the person dealing with law-enforcement has not only completely refused to obey their directives but has in so many cases turned violent themselves.
I think it's a question of using force to subdue a person and what is excessive force?

taking someone's life while kneeling on their neck to subdue them and/or shooting someone 7 times in the back trying to keep someone from retrieving a weapon from an automobile
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 25, 2020, 02:56:30 PM
I think it's a question of using force to subdue a person and what is excessive force?

taking someone's life while kneeling on their neck to subdue them and/or shooting someone 7 times in the back trying to keep someone from retrieving a weapon from an automobile
Well obviously. But that’s the problem. In a dynamic situation with only split seconds for everything to unfold what is excessive force? Kneeling on someone’s neck for 8.46 minutes is not in question here.

when you have tased someone multiple times and they are clearly not affected because they are under the influence of something, and there’s a warrant out for their arrest for third degree sexual assault as well as other Felonise, and they have a history of violence, and they go to their car open the door and lean into the front, not as if to try to get in but to reach for something, what is excessive force at that juncture?
police are shot and killed every single day in this country. They try to subdue people verbally first and then physically second. If that doesn’t work what do they have left?
Why is the responsibility to obey the directives always ignored? When you ignore their directives you basically illuminate the shirt is that goes with compliance and open the door to the unsureness that force brings into play.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2020, 03:05:14 PM
I agree.  If a member of law enforcement tells me to do something, I do it without question.

Learned that lesson when I was 17.  I thought the force used to teach me that lesson was excessive, but it was effective.

most of these folks that tussle with law enforcement have a long history of making poor decisions.

Obviously, some members of law enforcement also make poor decisions.  It's a tough job and possibly getting tougher.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 25, 2020, 03:12:48 PM
To me- it boils down to the question nobody seems to want to answer;

When you’re engaged in any situation with a law-enforcement officer, and they ask you to either submit, or to put your hands behind your back to be cuffed, or to stand and be still so they can settled the situation etc.,

Are citizens obligated to obey their requests.  If not- then the implications are enormous.  A person can simply get in their car and drive away from a crime scene or from being arrested.

If yes- then those who do not subject themselves to the use of force. 

The use of force is not an exact science.  It is dynamic, difficult to measure while being applied and risky as to how it ends. Especially when law-enforcement is dealing with a repeat offender with open warrants, a history of violence, and often times substantially under the influence of some kind of substance.

When these situations arise why is it always ignored that the person dealing with law-enforcement has not only completely refused to obey their directives but has in so many cases turned violent themselves.
Whether citizens are obligated to obey their requests "in any situation with a law-enforcement officer" is not an open-and-shut case either. If you are being detained or arrested, you are obligated to comply. When you're not, it's a "voluntary interaction" and you can leave at any time.

https://www.halt.org/am-i-being-detained-6-questions-you-should-ask-during-interactions-with-the-police/ (https://www.halt.org/am-i-being-detained-6-questions-you-should-ask-during-interactions-with-the-police/)

Granted, in this case there was a domestic disturbance complaint, so I guarantee Blake was not in a "voluntary interaction" situation. In that case the smart policy is to comply and let your lawyer sort out the rest. However, being "dumb" shouldn't be a death sentence unless you pose a clear and imminent threat to the health and safety of the officers or other citizens. (Note: I haven't followed the Blake situation enough to offer an opinion either way on whether he posed a clear an imminent threat.)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2020, 03:20:12 PM
I sent a scathing message to the governor this morning about his statement, which has no doubt helped incense the rioters. I also demanded that he send more national guard troops, as it was clear the 125 he sent were not enough.

This afternoon more troops arrived. Another curfew starts at 8PM.

Here we go again.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 25, 2020, 03:27:08 PM
Whether citizens are obligated to obey their requests "in any situation with a law-enforcement officer" is not an open-and-shut case either. If you are being detained or arrested, you are obligated to comply. When you're not, it's a "voluntary interaction" and you can leave at any time.

https://www.halt.org/am-i-being-detained-6-questions-you-should-ask-during-interactions-with-the-police/ (https://www.halt.org/am-i-being-detained-6-questions-you-should-ask-during-interactions-with-the-police/)

Granted, in this case there was a domestic disturbance complaint, so I guarantee Blake was not in a "voluntary interaction" situation. In that case the smart policy is to comply and let your lawyer sort out the rest. However, being "dumb" shouldn't be a death sentence unless you pose a clear and imminent threat to the health and safety of the officers or other citizens. (Note: I haven't followed the Blake situation enough to offer an opinion either way on whether he posed a clear an imminent threat.)


He was being arrested for sexual assault and 2 other warrants.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2020, 03:34:46 PM
He was being arrested for sexual assault and 2 other warrants.
Correct. The cops were called to the domestic disturbance, and they recognized him and proceeded to execute the warrant.

It's not a good thing when cops recognize you.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 25, 2020, 03:37:33 PM
To me- it boils down to the question nobody seems to want to answer;

When you’re engaged in any situation with a law-enforcement officer, and they ask you to either submit, or to put your hands behind your back to be cuffed, or to stand and be still so they can settled the situation etc.,
Are citizens obligated to obey their requests.  If not- then the implications are enormous.  A person can simply get in their car and drive away from a crime scene or from being arrested.

If yes- then those who do not subject themselves to the use of force. 

The use of force is not an exact science.  It is dynamic, difficult to measure while being applied and risky as to how it ends.
Especially when law-enforcement is dealing with a repeat offender with open warrants, a history of violence, and often times substantially under the influence of some kind of substance.

When these situations arise why is it always ignored that the person dealing with law-enforcement has not only completely refused to obey their directives but has in so many cases turned violent themselves.
I think this range is basically where we're at. We'd like people to generally follow the commands of law enforcement. But we argue about the specifics. If a drunk person starts walking away from an officer, what kind of force does this lead to? If I wriggle around like an eel while getting cuffed, I'm literally resisting arrest, but does that mean I should get my teeth taken out with a boot? 

What level of disobeying means you should end up catching a bullet? In some views, it's most levels of disobeying. In some it's almost none. The answer probably falls in that sticky middle. 

The other issue is that people by nature are mostly morons. They're unpredictable. Sometimes they get antsy or scared. In most of these situations, the burden falls on the citizen to tiptoe. Don't reach too fast for your wallet. Don't do anything interrupting the LEO's feeling of control. LEOs sometimes seem have trouble navigating those waters. Not that it's easy, but in all these interactions, the responsibility seems to often fall on the moron citizen. 

(Then there's the flip side that cops are still people and oft fallible in their own ways. They might have a history of violence and bad acts, but those are protected. They work for the people, but in some ways are not accountable to said people. Their organizations are interestingly very good at public relations by and large, owing to some quirks in the media landscape)

I hope we get some level of concrete closure in this Kenosha case. Hopefully we have those body cameras running and they generate some kind of account that's told in a clear manner that can get most folks on close to the same page. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 25, 2020, 03:39:13 PM
If a member of law enforcement tells me to do something, I do it without question.


If you don't realize that the history of black Americans interacting with police is fundamentally different than that of white Americans, then you need to look into it more.

In my lifetime police in the United States have been active enforcers of state-sponsored white supremacy. True, that was when I was very young, but the move from actively state-sponsored, to merely silently condoned hasn't removed the fundamental distinction between white and black America's experience with police.

White people say, "just follow their directions," and we have things like Philando Castille: https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/06/22/philando-castile-facebook-and-dashcam-full-mashup-video-ctn.cnn (https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/06/22/philando-castile-facebook-and-dashcam-full-mashup-video-ctn.cnn)

The Black American experience is complicated, and the reasons behind many of the statistics bandied about in support of one argument or another are legion, but the fundamental distinctions between white and black Americans' interactions with the police are real. To deny them strikes me as, at best, blissfully naive.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2020, 03:49:19 PM
If you don't realize that the history of black Americans interacting with police is fundamentally different than that of white Americans, then you need to look into it more.

yes, I took a criminal justice class in college.  It's eye opening.  My cousin was a police officer in Dallas and then San Jose, before burning out and teaching criminal justice at Chadron St. and then UNL.  The biggest reason he burnt out on the job was "bad" cops.

first - there aren't enough blacks in my county for law enforcement to pick on, so law enforcement hassles white people.

second - if I'm a black person and I think law enforcement might treat me poorly because of my race, that's the best reason to say, "yes sir" and comply with every request.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 25, 2020, 03:55:45 PM
He was being arrested for sexual assault and 2 other warrants.
Understood. I took your question to be much more general, about when "you're" by which I believed you meant any citizen rather than Blake, "engaged in any situation with a law enforcement officer" by which I didn't think you were referring to actively being arrested as they execute a warrant. 

Which I tried to cover in my paragraph where I flat out said Blake was obviously not in a "voluntary interaction" with police and was expected to comply. 

We both agree he was obligated to comply.

I thought your question was a hypothetical covering every situation, and thus I was saying that other situations can be more complicated.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2020, 03:58:03 PM
Dammit. It's already starting to heat up around here again. Listening to the Scanner 5-0 gives you a real feel about what these cops are dealing with here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2020, 04:14:37 PM
cops need to start arresting vandals to deter others

a water cannon might be a decent deterrent 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 25, 2020, 04:24:18 PM
I always felt I missed out on some history by not being alive to see 1968...

...but at least I get to watch the sequel. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 25, 2020, 04:32:14 PM
I always felt I missed out on some history by not being alive to see 1968...

...but at least I get to watch the sequel.
Todays riots make 1968 look like church picnic 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 25, 2020, 04:36:50 PM
yes, I took a criminal justice class in college.  It's eye opening.  My cousin was a police officer in Dallas and then San Jose, before burning out and teaching criminal justice at Chadron St. and then UNL.  The biggest reason he burnt out on the job was "bad" cops.

first - there aren't enough blacks in my county for law enforcement to pick on, so law enforcement hassles white people.

second - if I'm a black person and I think law enforcement might treat me poorly because of my race, that's the best reason to say, "yes sir" and comply with every request.
Sure, but it's also the reason that a black person's fight or flight instinct is very likely tuned much differently from yours or mine.

My daughter's god father is a cop, and I spent just enough time in the District Attorney's office to get to see how much great work police do--and to see that there are some--probably not many as a percentage of the population--dirty cops, too.

One of the things that sucks about systemic racism is the way it infects organizations in subtle and difficult to diagnose ways. Police departments are a good example of that. Many of the negative outcomes specifically borne by the black community don't stem from a cop who one would ever diagnose as racist in the sense of attending Klan rallies, or using racial epithets in daily conversation. They come from the history of societal outcomes cast by race that are highlighted by the arm of the government tasked with enforcing laws at the ground level.

That's why this country needs to own up to what has led us here so we can begin to try to address it. Banning choke holds doesn't fix it, and throwing up our hands and not enforcing the law can't be the right answer, either.

Like any good self-help program, the first step is admitting we have a problem. Part of that admission is recognizing why so many people are so angry, instead of dismissing or villainizing them.

Much more will be learned about what happened to Jacob Blake, but it's awfully hard to watch either of those videos without wondering why on earth the police felt that situation called for lethal violence. If he said he was grabbing a gun from his car, sure, that would explain a lot, but excuse the skepticism when culpable police have often used that to explain their behavior when there was no video (or other) evidence to refute it. And if so, why wouldn't they have acted sooner to prevent him from getting to his car?

Many--if not most--police departments have given up on the high speed chase in most circumstances because the risk it poses is too great relative to the reward. This feels to me like that kind of situation--again, short of Blake saying he was going for a gun--the use of lethal force in that situation doesn't feel like its worth the reward.

And was this specific event driven by race? Who knows, but it's easy for me to believe the answer is no. But in the bigger picture, the situation--that black people are on the receiving end of more of these situations than white people, is absolutely a function of race in America. That's what needs to be owned up to so that we can begin to make serious efforts to address it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2020, 04:47:56 PM
Much more will be learned about what happened to Jacob Blake, but it's awfully hard to watch either of those videos without wondering why on earth the police felt that situation called for lethal violence. If he said he was grabbing a gun from his car, sure, that would explain a lot, but excuse the skepticism when culpable police have often used that to explain their behavior when there was no video (or other) evidence to refute it. And if so, why wouldn't they have acted sooner to prevent him from getting to his car?

Mr. Blake doesn't appear to me to be that large or strong that two cops couldn't put cuffs on him when he was on the ground.  I understand he may have been on drugs that enhanced his physical ability to fight the cops or resist a taser.  They might have tackled him as he was walking away from him towards to driver's side of the car.
regardless, 7 shots to me seems excessive, but I don't have that experience.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2020, 04:50:23 PM
Many--if not most--police departments have given up on the high speed chase in most circumstances because the risk it poses is too great relative to the reward. This feels to me like that kind of situation--again, short of Blake saying he was going for a gun--the use of lethal force in that situation doesn't feel like its worth the reward.

the high speed chase has been one of my issues for decades.  It still happens here regularly.

especially when young people are involved - 15-20 years old
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 25, 2020, 04:55:59 PM
Well obviously. But that’s the problem. In a dynamic situation with only split seconds for everything to unfold what is excessive force? Kneeling on someone’s neck for 8.46 minutes is not in question here.

when you have tased someone multiple times and they are clearly not affected because they are under the influence of something, and there’s a warrant out for their arrest for third degree sexual assault as well as other Felonise, and they have a history of violence, and they go to their car open the door and lean into the front, not as if to try to get in but to reach for something, what is excessive force at that juncture?
police are shot and killed every single day in this country. They try to subdue people verbally first and then physically second. If that doesn’t work what do they have left?
Why is the responsibility to obey the directives always ignored? When you ignore their directives you basically illuminate the shirt is that goes with compliance and open the door to the unsureness that force brings into play.
According to statistics reported to the FBI, 89 law enforcement officers were killed in line-of-duty incidents in 2019.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 25, 2020, 05:02:51 PM
Todays riots make 1968 look like church picnic
320:
You and I were both sentient in 1968, but I doubt that either of us attended any riots.
I don't think the '68 riots were less violent than today's.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2020, 05:03:18 PM
Dammit. It's already starting to heat up around here again. Listening to the Scanner 5-0 gives you a real feel about what these cops are dealing with here.
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/117604821_4686399024707389_3989262552653422488_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=H2jrze_LYyEAX-xGfL6&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=129032ad1b9755f1050cd926aa5028b6&oe=5F6C6E10)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on August 25, 2020, 05:05:09 PM
According to statistics reported to the FBI, 89 law enforcement officers were killed in line-of-duty incidents in 2019.
Of those 89, 41 died in accidents. 

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2019-statistics-on-law-enforcement-officers-killed-in-the-line-of-duty (https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2019-statistics-on-law-enforcement-officers-killed-in-the-line-of-duty)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 25, 2020, 05:08:27 PM
So, that gets us down to possibly 48 police officers shot and killed in 2019.

Also in 2019, police officers shot and killed 1,004 civilians.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 25, 2020, 05:19:32 PM
From the font of all wisdom:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_the_United_States#:~:text=1967%20%E2%80%93%20Long%20Hot%20Summer%20of,%E2%80%9317%2C%20Newark%2C%20New%20Jersey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_the_United_States#:~:text=1967 – Long Hot Summer of,–17%2C Newark%2C New Jersey)

This doesn't talk about the severity, but civil unrest isn't new, nor has it gotten measurably worse. 1967 and 1968 were pretty bad years.

Many of the labor strikes in the pre-Labor Act days were far more violent than what we see today.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2020, 05:22:39 PM
So, that gets us down to possibly 48 police officers shot and killed in 2019.

Also in 2019, police officers shot and killed 1,004 civilians.
some of them had it coming

the question is.......... how many?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 25, 2020, 05:27:37 PM
Our county recently released video from an officer-involved shooting. Totally justified. The woman had fired a round from her shotgun, it was on the ground in front of her with officers ordering her to stay away from it, and she lunged back for it, resulting in the police shooting her. She died. It was hard to watch, and the shooting was justified. When I saw it, the first thing I thought was how incredibly brave the police were to run into that situation, knowing a person was armed and threatening to shoot them (and in fact, had already shot at them). I tried to imagine the amount of stress and adrenaline involved in that situation. Whether I could actually put myself in their shoes or not, I know what they went through was awful. Not one of them put their uniform on that day thinking they would have to kill someone. But they did--and they were doing the right thing--and very bravely. Thank goodness for that bravery.

At the same time, I worry that we, as a people, fetishize gun violence, and as a result our nation is more dangerous, for both the citizenry and the police, than other advanced/industrialized nations. How that manifests in the numbers of officer-involved shootings, I don't know, but I'm pretty sure it's a significant factor.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 25, 2020, 05:47:43 PM
According to statistics reported to the FBI, 89 law enforcement officers were killed in line-of-duty incidents in 2019.
Poor choice of words. Police are shot just about every day in this country and killed in many of those incidences. Just a scan of the news since the end of last month you can openly see two shot in Oklahoma, three shot in Maryland, three shot in Texas, three shot in Chicago, it goes on and on. That does not include those who are salted with bricks. Laser beams to the eye. Fireworks. Vehicles. Again the list goes on and on.  
I am very familiar with the data as there are several reliable sources to get what is often considered confusing data. One thing is for sure, your odds of being killed between being white, black, Hispanic, and in law-enforcement are by far the greatest in law enforcement.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 25, 2020, 05:51:17 PM
the high speed chase has been one of my issues for decades.  It still happens here regularly.

especially when young people are involved - 15-20 years old
Basically we are there. People feel they do not need to listen to the police and in fact are angered by the fact that they’re being asked to submit or to comply. They know they will have a ton of support in this regard.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 25, 2020, 05:55:31 PM
And was this specific event driven by race? Who knows, but it's easy for me to believe the answer is no. But in the bigger picture, the situation--that black people are on the receiving end of more of these situations than white people, is absolutely a function of race in America. That's what needs to be owned up to so that we can begin to make serious efforts to address it.”


So help me understand this. Are you saying that white people and Black people are in the situations an equal amount of times but Black people are treated differently? Or are you saying that Black people are in these types of situations were this kind of force, excessive or otherwise, happens?

Or, Are you saying that given the equal number of “opportunities” that Black people behave differently in those situations because of their past experiences? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 25, 2020, 06:01:13 PM
Basically we are there. People feel they do not need to listen to the police and in fact are angered by the fact that they’re being asked to submit or to comply. They know they will have a ton of support in this regard.
Do we think people ran from the police less historically?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 25, 2020, 06:02:46 PM
Poor choice of words. Police are shot just about every day in this country and killed in many of those incidences. Just a scan of the news since the end of last month you can openly see two shot in Oklahoma, three shot in Maryland, three shot in Texas, three shot in Chicago, it goes on and on. That does not include those who are salted with bricks. Laser beams to the eye. Fireworks. Vehicles. Again the list goes on and on. 
I am very familiar with the data as there are several reliable sources to get what is often considered confusing data. One thing is for sure, your odds of being killed between being white, black, Hispanic, and in law-enforcement are by far the greatest in law enforcement.
This is probably accurate though to a degree disingenuous if used to make much of a point.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2020, 06:06:13 PM
Do we think people ran from the police less historically?
I do.


Anyway, those (if any) who might be rooting against the cops here will not like this post.

I've just been told by a Waukegan cop who knows these guys that they were wearing their own personal body cameras on Sunday when this happened.

The WDOJ investigation should not take long, and then the Governor should resign.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2020, 06:07:19 PM
A lot SHOULD happen, most of it never seems to happen.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 25, 2020, 06:08:38 PM
This is probably accurate though to a degree disingenuous if used to make much of a point. 
Nice.  Far more whites than blacks are killed by law enforcement.  That gets thrown out by the “ but not if you look at the %s “ crowd. 

I simply followed that same data process anticipating it being thrown back if I used raw data.  But it’s disingenuous lol.  

no- it really isn’t. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 25, 2020, 06:09:32 PM
I do.


Anyway, those (if any) who might be rooting against the cops here will not like this post.

I've just been told by a Waukegan cop who knows these guys that they were wearing their own personal body cameras on Sunday when this happened.

The WDOJ investigation should not take long, and then the Governor should resign.
“If any”.   You are being very kind. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 25, 2020, 06:10:15 PM
Do we think people ran from the police less historically?
Oh hell yes.  It is standard behavior now.

And not just run, actually fight or assault or otherwise physically resist. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 25, 2020, 06:19:03 PM


I'm not talking about the protesters at all in this case. I'm talking about the idea that taking lives would be fun.

To be clear, I think the property damage is terrible. I also think the government taking lives is terrible, though a necessity at points.
Good Post That i get
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2020, 06:19:56 PM
The Atlanta police department is over 60% black.  It would be interesting to look at statistics on black police shooting black men versus white police.  If the ratio is the same, one might conclude race is not a factor in this.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 25, 2020, 06:24:57 PM
I do.


Anyway, those (if any) who might be rooting against the cops here will not like this post.

I've just been told by a Waukegan cop who knows these guys that they were wearing their own personal body cameras on Sunday when this happened.

The WDOJ investigation should not take long, and then the Governor should resign.
A. Good.
B. By the phrasing of this, we mean the body cameras they're supposed to wear, or ones they wear that they own themselves. The phrasing is weird and I want to clarify. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 25, 2020, 06:25:58 PM
I do.


Anyway, those (if any) who might be rooting against the cops here will not like this post.

I've just been told by a Waukegan cop who knows these guys that they were wearing their own personal body cameras on Sunday when this happened.

The WDOJ investigation should not take long, and then the Governor should resign.
Why on earth would the governor resign?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 25, 2020, 06:46:56 PM
Why on earth would the governor resign?
For making an incredibly inflammatory statement, which was incredibly divisive, and irrational before any fax had even been looked at
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 25, 2020, 06:48:54 PM
A. Good.
B. By the phrasing of this, we mean the body cameras they're supposed to wear, or ones they wear that they own themselves. The phrasing is weird and I want to clarify.
Their own.  Kenosha PD does not supply them. 

And in a separate question are you still convinced that the paid rioters came from Chicago and Milwaukee and other distant places but did it for free?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 25, 2020, 06:48:59 PM
For making an incredibly inflammatory statement, which was incredibly divisive, and irrational before any fax had even been looked at
Frankly I think that is ridiculous. We had a video of a guy shooting another guy in the back, trying to kill him. Yet the governor is the divisive one?  Come on.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 25, 2020, 06:55:25 PM
Frankly I think that is ridiculous. We had a video of a guy shooting another guy in the back, trying to kill him. Yet the governor is the divisive one?  Come on.
Yep that’s as divisive as it comes. We have a video of a man being being arrested, resisting arrest, under the influence of drugs, and very likely going for a weapon in a vehicle.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2020, 06:56:08 PM
Frankly I think that is ridiculous. We had a video of a guy shooting another guy in the back, trying to kill him. Yet the governor is the divisive one?  Come on.
The media who keeps posting the same tired (and edited) video is divisive. It's bulljive, period.

The Governor's statement was absolutely uncalled for. Especially at this time. And the shit is hitting the fan again NOW - partially because of his enabling. 

C'mon Sam. I mean, I get how you roll, but you gotta be able to see what is happening here.

ANYWAY

You want irony? The white people (Antifa, et al) burning shit down last night in the name of BLM burned down a predominantly BLACK neighborhood shopping district. The blacks in that neighborhood are PISSED.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 25, 2020, 06:57:30 PM
Frankly I think that is ridiculous. We had a video of a guy shooting another guy in the back, trying to kill him. Yet the governor is the divisive one?  Come on.
The video I saw showed him reaching into his car but didnt show  what he was reaching for

He may not have been reaching for anything but we dont know and neither did the Governor when he made his statements
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 25, 2020, 07:00:30 PM
This is reminiscent of the Brown incident
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2020, 07:37:33 PM
I'll await more facts.  We've all seen how our perception of events change once more facts are available.

Nearly every time.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2020, 07:54:06 PM
I do.


Anyway, those (if any) who might be rooting against the cops here will not like this post.

I've just been told by a Waukegan cop who knows these guys that they were wearing their own personal body cameras on Sunday when this happened.

The WDOJ investigation should not take long, and then the Governor should resign.
I root for good cops.

good cops wear body cameras
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 25, 2020, 07:55:15 PM
The media who keeps posting the same tired (and edited) video is divisive. It's bulljive, period.

The Governor's statement was absolutely uncalled for. Especially at this time. And the shit is hitting the fan again NOW - partially because of his enabling.

C'mon Sam. I mean, I get how you roll, but you gotta be able to see what is happening here.

ANYWAY

You want irony? The white people (Antifa, et al) burning shit down last night in the name of BLM burned down a predominantly BLACK neighborhood shopping district. The blacks in that neighborhood are PISSED.
For one, his statement was a pretty milquetoast comment on how racism and killing people aren't good. For two, it likely has no impact on anyone rioting or not.

For three, come on! The reason people have been protesting and rioting are precisely because of the idea of when the government kills (Or tries to kill) someone, the government decides the person had it coming, often based on pretty flimsy evidence, as will likely happen here. It sure as Hell is based on any statement by the governor.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2020, 07:56:40 PM
Frankly I think that is ridiculous. We had a video of a guy shooting another guy in the back, trying to kill him. Yet the governor is the divisive one?  Come on.
it seemed to me, 2 cops shot him in the back, multiple times
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 25, 2020, 08:06:25 PM
Oh hell yes.  It is standard behavior now.

And not just run, actually fight or assault or otherwise physically resist.
Interesting. I find myself of two minds about it.

On the one hand, running from the cops was certianly more profitable historically. You could get away with things much more easily when things weren't so interconnected. We have a major sport whose roots are deeply tied to running from the cops and a popular TV show that has some place in the historical memory was built on the same. Car chases feel like they were part of media history in the 80s and 90s, but that could just be because channels air them less at the behest of law enforcement.

On the other hand, the chance of an extralegal assault was probably higher historically (though it's probably not low now). Even less attention probably gave the law more leeway to push and break the law. 

I'm unsure how standard it is. But it is nature to assume now is always worse than then. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 25, 2020, 08:16:03 PM
Their own.  Kenosha PD does not supply them.

And in a separate question are you still convinced that the paid rioters came from Chicago and Milwaukee and other distant places but did it for free?
I'm usually pretty skeptical of the paid rioters thing. It often strikes me as a fantastical thing a person would think because it make it seem like they're more besieged, which people seem to like.

I look at two reasons for skepticism:
1. There was a weird run of people in all sorts of random places suddenly hearing buses of Antifa were coming their way. And often it was just nonsense. So the idea of these influxes of professional troublemakers just strikes me as one of those things people want badly to believe, and elaborate things people want badly to believe are usually things I should be skeptical of.
2. If we assume the massive influx of experienced protesters or troublemakers, people do lots of stuff for free. That some people want to start trouble isn't super surprising. That some people want to rush over to something for a cause they believe in (and start trouble for some of them), also not surprising. Ergo, I'm unconvinced one would need to pay such people. 

Basically, it sounds like a story of a perfect boogeyman. And I'm skeptical such perfect things exist. People can be destructive jackasses from right inside the community and for free. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 25, 2020, 08:28:30 PM
“If any”.  You are being very kind.
People on this board rooting against the cops in favor of the looters and burners?  I don't see it, HB.
I see that some posters would like to see fewer bad shootings by cops.  I hope everyone would be in favor of that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 25, 2020, 08:36:33 PM
Oh hell yes.  It is standard behavior now.

And not just run, actually fight or assault or otherwise physically resist.
Back when he was in college, the starting QB for the Cleveland Browns ran from cops in Fayetteville, Arkansas, and all I ever heard about it at the time was that no significant punishment should be forthcoming, as boys will be boys and, "Say--don't you remember when YOU were in college?"
Personally, I didn't think it was standard behavior.
We could probably read of similar incidents involving NCAA Div I football players every week.  College Football Fan makes excuses for that sort of running away.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 25, 2020, 08:38:48 PM
And was this specific event driven by race? Who knows, but it's easy for me to believe the answer is no. But in the bigger picture, the situation--that black people are on the receiving end of more of these situations than white people, is absolutely a function of race in America. That's what needs to be owned up to so that we can begin to make serious efforts to address it.”


So help me understand this. Are you saying that white people and Black people are in the situations an equal amount of times but Black people are treated differently? Or are you saying that Black people are in these types of situations were this kind of force, excessive or otherwise, happens?

Or, Are you saying that given the equal number of “opportunities” that Black people behave differently in those situations because of their past experiences?
1) There is no question that black people are disproportionately more involved in the criminal justice system in this country than white people. This is irrefutable.

2) It is also irrefutable that black people are treated disproportionately worse than white people by the criminal justice system, from traffic stops, to arrests, to charging, to sentencing. In other words, given the same conduct, black people average worse outcomes.

3) Why?
One reason is poverty. Poverty and crime rates go together like peanut butter and jelly. This is unsurprising: desperate people do desperate things. That doesn't mean all crime is because of poverty, and it doesn't excuse crime where poverty is also present, and it certainly doesn't mean that poor people are necessarily criminals--most poor people aren't criminals. But undoubtedly, the world round, poverty rates and crime rates go hand in hand.

Anyone who acknowledges anything about U.S. history can see that the state intentionally drove black people into poverty. First through slavery, then through Jim Crow and a host of other nefarious, overt acts taken to deprive black people of rights equal to those of white people. Again, this is irrefutable. Literally centuries of state-sponsored action had a very real impact on the black community, and turning that state sponsoring off didn't--because it couldn't--suddenly fix what centuries of official policy created. Nor is there a credible argument that at some point after the Supreme Court decisions of the 50s and 60s and the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act ingrained racism was just turned off and went away.

But it isn't just poverty. In large part its ingrained bias that goes with centuries of intentional oppression that shape our views. This isn't overt racism, it's unconscious bias--but it's important because it reinforces the biases that are there. An example is national media--including the generally somewhat left-leaning media--label black people as looters, and white people as gathering supplies after Hurricane Katrina--black and white people literally doing the same thing. That kind of thing is well documented, and it reinforces the idea that black people are more likely criminal, more likely dangerous, more likely predatory. That kind of bias is a big part of the outcomes issue.

So black people--even those who aren't in poverty--are more likely to be stopped by the police, more likely to have the neighbors call in complaints about them, more likely to receive negative attention while shopping, more likely to be marginalized in the work place, etc., etc., etc. The evidence of this is overwhelming. And that is systemic racism. It's different than member-of-the-Klan racism, but it's very real, and needs real attention for us to reduce or even (should we be so lucky) eliminate it.

And do black kids and white kids get different educations (on the whole) as to how to interact with the police? Absolutely. My black friends have conversations with their kids (and had conversations with their parents) that I would never dream of with my kids. Sure, I tell my kids to be respectful, but I don't worry about any police interaction as a life or death scenario. So yes, it's safe to say that black people (again, this is all on the whole--looking at populations in the millions, not any particular incident) have different interactions with the police.

As an example, my best police friend told me recently that on reflection it's very likely that many of the traffic stops he's made over the years were the result of the people he was tailing being nervous that he was tailing them--and thus less proficient at driving. Like many cops, he didn't pull people over to write tickets, he pulled people over because people driving badly at night often have bad things going on in their lives, and he was trying to catch the bad guys. Now, we're all (or at least most people I know) nervous when we have police officers behind us, but a group of people who learn to fear police interactions as potentially deadly, as opposed to merely uncomfortable, would be a lot more nervous--and thus make more mistakes. That's a vicious cycle, and one born of literally centuries of racism, not my friend, nor the person he's tailing, making a conscious race-based decision.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 25, 2020, 08:41:55 PM
The Atlanta police department is over 60% black.  It would be interesting to look at statistics on black police shooting black men versus white police.  If the ratio is the same, one might conclude race is not a factor in this.
Recently I read (in New York magazine, IIRC) a story of NYPD violence tied to protection provided by the police union.  Actually, NYPD as a better-than-average record as far as bad shootings and other bad violent actions go, but even so the raw numbers are high.
Anyway, I think I remember reading that black cops behave about the same as white cops.  The ones who stay on the force adopt the police culture.  They shoot black suspects about as often as white cops do when circumstances are similar.
I've seen another study--I think I've seen HB alluding to it--that concluded that while cops hassle black people significantly more than they do whites, they aren't more likely to use deadly force against blacks than they do against whites under similar circumstances.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 25, 2020, 08:52:16 PM
So, in The Bulwark, a center-right Never-Trump online news/opinion site that has tried hard (maybe even too hard) to see the protestors' PoV, Editor Charlie Sykes posts this as something seen on social media:

(https://mcusercontent.com/41df14e6667a85d0f6e4a4f5e/images/0c94e8d3-6aac-4868-8199-b4d7bfda0b5d.png)

Quote
This may not be representative of the sentiments of most of the protesters, but in conjunction with the viral pictures of Kenosha burning, it is quickly hardening political reactions along ideological lines.
I first thought that whoever put that out should know that it helps Donald Trump's campaign.
Then I thought that perhaps someone in Donald Trump's campaign is putting that out.  A false-flag operation.
Then I thought that nobody in charge of Donald Trump's campaign would be smart enough to do that.
Whichever is true, it helps Trump's campaign.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 25, 2020, 09:00:53 PM
The black cop question gets to the heart of what systemic racism means. It doesn't mean: person A did a bad thing, so person A is a racist. It means that the system encourages an outcome that is driven by race. In most instances not entirely driven by race, but influenced by it.

So black cops every bit as much as white cops--because cops are the ones we ask to enforce our law (or our "systems," if you will)--are the instrument of systemic racism, not because an individual is racist, but because they system they are enforcing is infected by racism.

Which is what makes this stuff so hard--so complicated. It's not choke holds that are the problem (though they may be a problem), it's a system that reinforces biases. And its a system that by in large has worked really well for many people--likely a large majority of people. So it's difficult to change. Where I get confused is when people don't want to acknowledge that a call for change isn't an indictment of the country. I love this country, but loving it doesn't mean I ignore its faults. "In order to form a more perfect union" accepts the obvious, we're not perfect, and calls for us to try to do better. That means recognizing where our systems are failing, and trying to correct them.

Going back to my diatribe above, either there has been a systemic problem in the way this country treats black people, or black people are inherently inferior (ps essentially the definition of racism). I do not believe the latter, so to my mind it is crystal clear the former. We have made significant and important progress, but let's not kid ourselves, that progress has been fought--sometimes literally--every step of the way by significant portions of our population. See Lee Atwater and the Southern Strategy. From where I sit, I see that we have a lot of work still to do, and--as I noted earlier--the first step is admitting we have a problem. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 25, 2020, 09:04:19 PM
So, in The Bulwark, a center-right Never-Trump online news/opinion site that has tried hard (maybe even too hard) to see the protestors' PoV, Editor Charlie Sykes posts this as something seen on social media:

(https://mcusercontent.com/41df14e6667a85d0f6e4a4f5e/images/0c94e8d3-6aac-4868-8199-b4d7bfda0b5d.png)

I first thought that whoever put that out should know that it helps Donald Trump's campaign.
Then I thought that perhaps someone in Donald Trump's campaign is putting that out.  A false-flag operation.
Then I thought that nobody in charge of Donald Trump's campaign would be smart enough to do that.
Whichever is true, it helps Trump's campaign.


The worst people that join in a cause don't define the cause. This is a fringe element, just as there are fringe elements who claim allegiance with every movement.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2020, 09:05:00 PM
Madison is the city where the badgers play?

just a little liberal?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 25, 2020, 09:07:28 PM
One other comment while I'm at it: running from the police is as American as apple pie. Half our pop culture heroes are criminals (not really half, but a lot). Billy the Kid, Bonnie and Clyde, Bo and Luke Duke, Smokey and the Bandit--these were all from years past. American culture has always loved a rebel.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2020, 09:08:24 PM
The worst people that join in a cause don't define the cause. This is a fringe element, just as there are fringe elements who claim allegiance with every movement.
people that burn police stations and car lots are certainly part of the definition
not all of it, but they have a part of it

it's not helping the original cause, but no one is stopping them from being a part of it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 25, 2020, 09:09:14 PM
I think it's quite likely a false-flag operation.  Not by anyone in the official Trump campaign, but by someone on the edges of it.  It just plays into what the RNC message is right now too perfectly.
When things are too "good" to be true, they usually aren't true.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 25, 2020, 09:09:21 PM
Madison is the city where the badgers play?

just a little liberal?
There's gambling in Casablanca?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 25, 2020, 09:11:02 PM
One other comment while I'm at it: running from the police is as American as apple pie. Half our pop culture heroes are criminals (not really half, but a lot). Billy the Kid, Bonnie and Clyde, Bo and Luke Duke, Smokey and the Bandit--these were all from years past. American culture has always loved a rebel.
Every time I hear the song "Convoy" anymore, I wonder what we would have thought had it been done by a gangsta rapper.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 25, 2020, 09:11:40 PM
Interesting. I find myself of two minds about it.

On the one hand, running from the cops was certianly more profitable historically. You could get away with things much more easily when things weren't so interconnected. We have a major sport whose roots are deeply tied to running from the cops and a popular TV show that has some place in the historical memory was built on the same. Car chases feel like they were part of media history in the 80s and 90s, but that could just be because channels air them less at the behest of law enforcement.

On the other hand, the chance of an extralegal assault was probably higher historically (though it's probably not low now). Even less attention probably gave the law more leeway to push and break the law.

I'm unsure how standard it is. But it is nature to assume now is always worse than then.
What's the major sport, BAB?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 25, 2020, 09:13:03 PM
people that burn police stations and car lots are certainly part of the definition
not all of it, but they have a part of it

it's not helping the original cause, but no one is stopping them from being a part of it
Lots of people work really hard to prevent it (anyone who's been to protests has seen people working hard at containing them), but group think is a thing, and large gatherings turning to riots (regardless the cause) is as common as cars burning after a city wins a sports championship. That's no reason to stop protesting, nor is it justification for the shitty acts people commit.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2020, 09:13:29 PM
I'd be selling and moving out of any blue cities

no joke
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2020, 09:20:42 PM
Lots of people work really hard to prevent it (anyone who's been to protests has seen people working hard at containing them), but group think is a thing, and large gatherings turning to riots (regardless the cause) is as common as cars burning after a city wins a sports championship. That's no reason to stop protesting, nor is it justification for the shitty acts people commit.
the mayors of Portland, Seattle, Chicago didn't seem to want to prevent or contain anything

leaders in the black community haven't had a strong voice to prevent anything

Badge's favorite Governor doesn't seem to be helping

The folks that run the movement "BLM" haven't come out condemning  riots and looting.

Did anyone at Biden's DNC party condemn burning and looting? (I don't know, don't watch political blathering
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 25, 2020, 09:22:04 PM
I'd be selling and moving out of any blue cities

no joke
meanwhile Houston is hiring


https://nypost.com/2020/08/23/houston-police-chief-recruits-from-defunded-police-departments/

w (https://nypost.com/2020/08/23/houston-police-chief-recruits-from-defunded-police-departments/)ho said we Texans aint equal opportunity folks
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2020, 09:24:40 PM
I was interested in moving to Texas because of the mild winters, now I have another reason

although, Iowa and Nebraska aren't blue, especially in rural areas
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on August 25, 2020, 09:26:12 PM
I'd be selling and moving out of any blue cities

no joke
My parents have finally decided to make the move out of Austin...

meanwhile Houston is hiring


https://nypost.com/2020/08/23/houston-police-chief-recruits-from-defunded-police-departments/

w (https://nypost.com/2020/08/23/houston-police-chief-recruits-from-defunded-police-departments/)ho said we Texans aint equal opportunity folks

...partly because of the recent Austin city council decision to begin defunding the police.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on August 25, 2020, 09:26:47 PM
I was interested in moving to Texas because of the mild winters, now I have another reason

although, Iowa and Nebraska aren't blue, especially in rural areas

Austin's blue, you definitely don't want to move there if that's your concern...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 25, 2020, 09:28:00 PM
My parents have finally decided to make the move out of Austin...

...partly because of the recent Austin city council decision to begin defunding the police.
I think if you give it a little time the citizens will veto that

Just ask Minneapolis
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2020, 09:30:56 PM
brother is in Colleyville, TX now

don't have to go that far south
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 25, 2020, 09:55:44 PM
People on this board rooting against the cops in favor of the looters and burners?  I don't see it, HB.
I see that some posters would like to see fewer bad shootings by cops.  I hope everyone would be in favor of that.
I think everyone is in favor of that. But I definitely see people on this board that are pro violence and anti-cop and it’s not even Thinly veiled. 

I try very hard to be tolerant of other opinions but that’s just one I can’t respect.  Pro violence. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 25, 2020, 10:02:35 PM
What's the major sport, BAB?
NASCAR. Early days had some roots in moonshine running. Build that fast car to outrun someone. 

I think Junior Johnson, one of the sports stars way back when even did a little time making a run for his family. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 25, 2020, 10:05:05 PM
Austin's blue, you definitely don't want to move there if that's your concern...
Haven't property values skyrocketed? 

I was on a plane next to a couple Austin guys and they were talking about it like it was the Bay Area, with many of the issues of living in a place prospering in a tech-heavy way. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2020, 10:06:40 PM
Farming was a staple of the Johnson household, but so was the manufacture and high-speed transport of untaxed whiskey. Junior Johnson quickly became involved in both family businesses, sharpening his skills as a driver with his fearlessness in distributing liquor in hopped-up cars.

“The good whiskey runners were kind of cocky about it, like good race drivers,” Johnson told the Associated Press in 1991. “I guess I was pretty cocky.”

Legend has it that Johnson was never caught on the road. He was convicted of moonshining in 1956 after authorities staked out the family still. President Ronald Reagan pardoned him on Dec. 26, 1986. “No maybe about it. Best Christmas gift I ever got,” Johnson told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution in 2007. Johnson now sells moonshine legally under the Midnight Moon label.


https://www.nascar.com/news-media/2019/12/20/junior-johnson-moonshiner-nascar-legend-dies-88/ (https://www.nascar.com/news-media/2019/12/20/junior-johnson-moonshiner-nascar-legend-dies-88/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2020, 10:07:45 PM
my brother hopes property values are going up in Round Rock
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 25, 2020, 10:21:01 PM
So, in The Bulwark, a center-right Never-Trump online news/opinion site that has tried hard (maybe even too hard) to see the protestors' PoV, Editor Charlie Sykes posts this as something seen on social media:

(https://mcusercontent.com/41df14e6667a85d0f6e4a4f5e/images/0c94e8d3-6aac-4868-8199-b4d7bfda0b5d.png)

I first thought that whoever put that out should know that it helps Donald Trump's campaign.
Then I thought that perhaps someone in Donald Trump's campaign is putting that out.  A false-flag operation.
Then I thought that nobody in charge of Donald Trump's campaign would be smart enough to do that.
Whichever is true, it helps Trump's campaign.


I can't tell if I think that's fake or not. On the one hand there is certianly someone on the left that's enough of a dipshit to make such a poster. 

On the other "Do what you want. Fuck shit up." is entirely the kind of scare tactic hamfisted nonsense someone trying to stir stuff up would do. 

Some quick twitter and google searches turned up nothing really. One account posted it, apparently only created in late May. Not sure what to read into that. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 25, 2020, 10:21:06 PM
Haven't property values skyrocketed?

I was on a plane next to a couple Austin guys and they were talking about it like it was the Bay Area, with many of the issues of living in a place prospering in a tech-heavy way.
If they defund the police just wait a few years and those values will come down
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 25, 2020, 10:27:46 PM
Legend has it that Johnson was never caught on the road. He was convicted of moonshining in 1956 after authorities staked out the family still. President Ronald Reagan pardoned him on Dec. 26, 1986. “No maybe about it. Best Christmas gift I ever got,” Johnson told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution in 2007. Johnson now sells moonshine legally under the Midnight Moon label.


https://www.nascar.com/news-media/2019/12/20/junior-johnson-moonshiner-nascar-legend-dies-88/ (https://www.nascar.com/news-media/2019/12/20/junior-johnson-moonshiner-nascar-legend-dies-88/)
He was on an History Channel Special years ago Rumrunners, Moonshiners and Bootleggers documentary

*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mapx8WIf7pg&list=PLxxlvAyWJC7LnnP5h2Q5ntvREcFp2fnMy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mapx8WIf7pg&list=PLxxlvAyWJC7LnnP5h2Q5ntvREcFp2fnMy)*
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 25, 2020, 10:32:46 PM
NASCAR. Early days had some roots in moonshine running. Build that fast car to outrun someone.

I think Junior Johnson, one of the sports stars way back when even did a little time making a run for his family.
Sure. . . .
I was trying to think of field sports and couldn't stretch my imagination far enough to make "running from the cops" fit any of them.
But NASCAR, sure.  An outlaw sport at its inception.  And I think you are right about Junior Johnson.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 25, 2020, 10:42:14 PM
Sure. . . .
I was trying to think of field sports and couldn't stretch my imagination far enough to make "running from the cops" fit any of them.
But NASCAR, sure.  An outlaw sport at its inception.  And I think you are right about Junior Johnson.
So what future sports are there going come from todays rioting?

Team barricade building

Laser hunting

the 5 pound brick toss
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 25, 2020, 10:42:29 PM
Watch that video starting at around 8:00,pretty funny the revenuers never caught Junior on the back roads but caught him at his dads still.And he said"I'd dew-w it aGin: - Love it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 25, 2020, 10:44:50 PM
Every time I hear the song "Convoy" anymore, I wonder what we would have thought had it been done by a gangsta rapper.
When the hell have you heard that played on the airwaves?Don't lie ,you're going thru your old 8-Tracks
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 25, 2020, 10:50:01 PM
So what future sports are there going come from todays rioting?

Team barricade building

Laser hunting

the 5 pound brick toss
Thunderdome? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 26, 2020, 07:50:00 AM
When the hell have you heard that played on the airwaves?Don't lie ,you're going thru your old 8-Tracks
I play it on Youtube to relive a road trip from Norman to Boulder in 1976.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 26, 2020, 08:13:15 AM
Do share the nuances,you weren't running point for a Semi full of Coors were you?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 26, 2020, 09:09:40 AM
I see that the riot victims bagged themselves a couple of looters last night. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2020, 09:34:50 AM
I'd be selling and moving out of any blue cities

no joke
Done.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 09:35:43 AM
I see that the riot victims bagged themselves a couple of looters last night.
Reports are scattered and unreliable. Sounds like it was some teenager from Illinois cosplaying cops and robbers. I wonder if he was paid to be there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2020, 09:37:38 AM
I see that the riot victims bagged themselves a couple of looters last night.
Yep. They need to bag more.

Meanwhile, we're headed out of here to a different marina. Friday is supposed to be a REALLY bad day here, and in other cities. People (paid) from all over the country are making their way here now, according to the marina owner.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2020, 09:50:56 AM
See the guy on the right? He needs to get the F out of this country.

(https://i.imgur.com/CZlFo70.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 26, 2020, 10:28:53 AM
Yep. They need to bag more.

Meanwhile, we're headed out of here to a different marina. Friday is supposed to be a REALLY bad day here, and in other cities. People (paid) from all over the country are making their way here now, according to the marina owner.
Isn’t amazing how they know that ahead of time.  So much planning goes into this violence and destruction.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2020, 10:36:08 AM
We are leaving, because one peacefully placed maltov cocktail will light this place up like Beruit. 

I was also made aware that boat insurance policies do not cover domestic terrorism. So, we would be very much like all of the businesses who are SOL for that reason. Unless they purchased a rider for domestic terrorism, they are screwed.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 26, 2020, 10:37:28 AM
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1298529196549869568?s=20
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 26, 2020, 10:48:57 AM
We are leaving, because one peacefully placed maltov cocktail will light this place up like Beruit.

I was also made aware that boat insurance policies do not cover domestic terrorism. So, we would be very much like all of the businesses who are SOL for that reason. Unless they purchased a rider for domestic terrorism, they are screwed.
I assume the domestic terrorism is your rhetorical flourish and not the exact legal wording, correct?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 26, 2020, 10:49:01 AM
We are leaving, because one peacefully placed maltov cocktail will light this place up like Beruit.

I was also made aware that boat insurance policies do not cover domestic terrorism. So, we would be very much like all of the businesses who are SOL for that reason. Unless they purchased a rider for domestic terrorism, they are screwed.
Sad.  The anarchists are winning. 

I also see on Twitter this morning that the anarchists are grouping around white diners and forcing them to do the Hitler salute or raise their fist under the threat of a screaming mob. 




Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 26, 2020, 10:55:50 AM
I assume the domestic terrorism is your rhetorical flourish and not the exact legal wording, correct?
You would be incorrect.   An incident has to be declared either terrorist or domestic terrorism and you have had to have a special rider and pay extra to get this insurance

https://advisorsmith.com/what-does-terrorism-insurance-cover/
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on August 26, 2020, 11:02:44 AM
It's easy to condemn rioting, violence, and looting. But one also has to condemn the reasons why rioting happens. And that's a place that many don't want to go.

Go watch MLK Jr.'s "The Other America" speech. It's well worth your time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOWDtDUKz-U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOWDtDUKz-U)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 26, 2020, 11:24:14 AM
It's easy to condemn rioting, violence, and looting. But one also has to condemn the reasons why rioting happens. And that's a place that many don't want to go.

Go watch MLK Jr.'s "The Other America" speech. It's well worth your time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOWDtDUKz-U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOWDtDUKz-U)
I guess that’s true if you think the reasons are legit or at least what they are claimed to be. I am not so sure on either front. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 26, 2020, 11:25:06 AM
It's easy to condemn rioting, violence, and looting. But one also has to condemn the reasons why rioting happens. And that's a place that many don't want to go.

Go watch MLK Jr.'s "The Other America" speech. It's well worth your time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOWDtDUKz-U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOWDtDUKz-U)
and just what are the reasons this rioting is happening
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2020, 11:30:30 AM
I assume the domestic terrorism is your rhetorical flourish and not the exact legal wording, correct?
When you assume...

You are not assuming correctly.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2020, 11:33:22 AM
and just what are the reasons this rioting is happening
A high as a kite thug was shot on Sunday while resisting arrest and reaching for a bouquet of flowers under his seat?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on August 26, 2020, 11:36:20 AM
It's easy to condemn rioting, violence, and looting. But one also has to condemn the reasons why rioting happens. And that's a place that many don't want to go.

Yes.  And you can stop right there.  

You see, this is the problem.  I don't see a single person on this message board, nor do I know a single person in real life, that's NOT condemning police killing black people for no reason.

So there's no need for your second sentence above.  At least, not when discussing with rational people.  And if you're discussing with irrational people, then no point you attempt to make will make any difference anyway.

But the rioting and the looting and the killing sure as shit will make a difference in the perception of those enacting the violent acts, even and especially among rational people.

So stop with the first sentence.  And then have a conversation about that first sentence.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 26, 2020, 11:37:35 AM

They tore down Kenosha's Confederate Dinosaur Statue. 

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgRmYAdVoAEF4dn?format=png&name=small)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2020, 11:42:02 AM
They tore down Kenosha's Confederate Dinosaur Statue.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgRmYAdVoAEF4dn?format=png&name=small)
That dinosaur actually fought against slavery.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 26, 2020, 11:44:13 AM
They tore down Kenosha's Confederate Dinosaur Statue.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgRmYAdVoAEF4dn?format=png&name=small)
Prince Eric said last night that the protesters were trying to tear down statues of our ancestors.

Does this mean he believes in evolution? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2020, 11:56:34 AM
Heh.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2020, 11:57:44 AM
The latest we're hearing now is that they are protesting 7 days for 7 bullets. I guess we'll find out soon.

Right now I'm booked through Sunday at the other marina. I might make it permanent.

What's another $1500??
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 12:19:18 PM
As noted, we're all against unwarranted police killings of civilians.  I don't think we need to say that, really.

We're all against rioting and arson and looting and anything else of that ilk that is illegal.

I suspect we all support good police officers.  I suspect we all understand that any large population of humans will have some who are "bad", either incompetent, nefarious, sociopathic, on some power ego trip, whatever.

There, I've said it, if anyone disagrees, fine with me.  If not, it's said for us all, here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 12:21:19 PM
I too am against bad things and support good things
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2020, 12:22:08 PM
I too am against bad things and support good things
Thank you for your support.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2020, 12:22:49 PM
I am beside myself right now. I'm literally shaking.

Time for a Xanax. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2020, 12:25:39 PM
and a glass of scotch 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on August 26, 2020, 12:26:25 PM
I am beside myself right now. I'm literally shaking.

Time for a Xanax.

My general position is "I hate people" and 2020 has only served to strengthen that.

And I can assure you all, I certainly don't discriminate in that statement.  I hate ALL people, regardless of race, color, creed, nationality, gender, or orientation.

So I'm just a misanthrope, not a bigot.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 26, 2020, 12:26:47 PM
While ESPN was on for background noise I got to hear millionaires  Doc Rivers and Stephen A Smith preach to me how hard it is to be black in America.  Rivers tearfully said white people don’t have to worry about traffic stops ending badly.

I was relieved to hear that.  See, I have thought all along if my son willfully disobeyed and fought with cops that there was a chance he could get shot, but Doc Rivers assured me that wasn’t the case.

Oh, and apparently Jemele Hill thinks present day America is as bad as Nazi Germany.  Read that again and let it really soak in. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 12:28:41 PM
I once knew a lady named Anne Throop.

I tend to like people, in smaller doses.  My presumption is folks are fine.  When I'm out running or walking, I tend to smile and wave at folks.  Of course, this is the South, and it's a bit different.  Folks smile and wave back.

I think we could all use a few brief moments of recognition and howdy.


I'm a regular ray of subshine.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2020, 12:29:14 PM
this is why ESPN makes for crap background noise

I don't do it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 12:30:02 PM
How many drivers to police shoot every year for a routine traffic violation?

What percentage of stops end in a shooting when the only issue is a traffic violation?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2020, 12:30:51 PM
don't ruin the story with stats
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 12:33:44 PM
I'm trying to understand the "presumption" that a normal traffic stop could easily end with a shooting by the police.  Does anyone accept that?  Does it happen even once a year in the entire country?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2020, 12:40:13 PM
If you pull a gun on the cop, sure

I've heard the stories from ex husker players about growing up in Kansas City and traffic stops were much different for blacks than whites, but not that there were shootings
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 12:40:54 PM
I am beside myself right now. I'm literally shaking.

Time for a Xanax.
Buddy I feel ya. It sucks
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 12:41:45 PM
Normal traffic stop means just that, no gun, no threat, no knife, just a traffic stop.

I'd wager a small amount that we have zero shootings of that ilk in the entire country in a year.  In a decade.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 26, 2020, 12:43:18 PM
Do share the nuances,you weren't running point for a Semi full of Coors were you?
No semis full of Coors.  We just did a lot of listening to and talking on the CB radio, back in those pre "cell"-phone days.
The car I was riding in had the worst-ever Chevy V8--the 307--and it threw a rod near Colby, Kansas.  We took an all-night bus trip to Denver to meet up with a fraternity brother.
I should have said Breckinridge rather than Boulder.  That was our ultimate destination.
Had a good time skiiing.  Took a bus back to Colby, then the re-engined Chevy back to Norman.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2020, 12:45:15 PM
been through Colby a few times

yawn
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 26, 2020, 12:46:41 PM
I'm trying to understand the "presumption" that a normal traffic stop could easily end with a shooting by the police.  Does anyone accept that?  Does it happen even once a year in the entire country?
I've read of a few instances where the driver is legally carrying a firearm and he tells the cop.  Cop panics, gives the drive contradictory instructions like "put your hands on the steering wheel and don't move them" and "pull out your driver's license," and then shoots the driver when he fails to comply with one or the other.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 12:48:07 PM
How many drivers to police shoot every year for a routine traffic violation?

What percentage of stops end in a shooting when the only issue is a traffic violation?


Data collection of these kind of things is notoriously lacking
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 26, 2020, 12:50:46 PM
Lots of people work really hard to prevent it (anyone who's been to protests has seen people working hard at containing them), but group think is a thing, and large gatherings turning to riots (regardless the cause) is as common as cars burning after a city wins a sports championship. That's no reason to stop protesting, nor is it justification for the shitty acts people commit.
Don't you know, SF, that a riot is just democracy in action?  Storm the hill with pitchforks and torches, burn down Frankenstein's castle!
Yeah, groupthink is a problem.  People in a group will do things that they would never dream of doing solo.  That can be a good thing, but just as easily a bad one.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 26, 2020, 12:52:04 PM
My general position is "I hate people" and 2020 has only served to strengthen that.

And I can assure you all, I certainly don't discriminate in that statement.  I hate ALL people, regardless of race, color, creed, nationality, gender, or orientation.

So I'm just a misanthrope, not a bigot.


Preach, utee!

I wonder if this is available?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2020, 12:57:51 PM
FORE!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 12:59:39 PM
I'm hard pressed to think ANY cop in the US EVER shoots a person at a routine traffic stop without some complicating situation.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 26, 2020, 01:00:31 PM
what I dont understand is why doesnt the Governor call in as many national guard as needed to lock that town down

seems to me thay have given up any right to protest after burning down places

put a curfew in place and start arresting 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 26, 2020, 01:01:43 PM
Panic on the cop's part.  A citizen legally carrying a gun scares the cop.  Probably a bad cop who enjoys being the only armed person in a sea of unarmed civilians.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 26, 2020, 01:11:57 PM
Kenosha Police say the shooting last night was "vigilante groups" accosting the protesters. And yes, one of the protesters (more, actually), were also armed. That's a powder keg and last night--predictably--it exploded.

As I was saying--a gun fetish. 

This whole thing really sucks.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2020, 01:12:11 PM
what I dont understand is why doesnt the Governor call in as many national guard as needed to lock that town down

seems to me thay have given up any right to protest after burning down places

put a curfew in place and start arresting
This governor is a pussy. We shall see if he honors the request of the County board. I would be shocked if he actually came here to see what has happened.


Kenosha County Board Chairman John O’Day and Vice Chairwoman Monica Yuhas have sent this letter to Gov. Evers on behalf of the whole County Board, requesting that additional National Guard members with police powers be sent to Kenosha County immediately.

Here is the letter:
"We, the undersigned, are urgently asking for your swift action to activate more National Guard troops with police powers to be sent to Kenosha County. Our county is under attack. Our businesses are under attack. Our homes are under attack. Our local law enforcement agencies need additional support to help bring civility back to our community.
"We are formally asking for 1,500 National Guard members with police powers to be sent to Kenosha County immediately. Our county is in a state of emergency and we need additional law enforcement to help preserve and save Kenosha County.

"We encourage you to visit Kenosha County and see firsthand the destruction that has been inflicted on our community."

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2020, 01:15:29 PM
Kenosha Police say the shooting last night was "vigilante groups" accosting the protesters. And yes, one of the protesters (more, actually), were also armed. That's a powder keg and last night--predictably--it exploded.

As I was saying--a gun fetish.

This whole thing really sucks.
This they are not. This is past that. This is a full-on attack on this City and its people and businesses.

I do not condone vigilante groups, for the record. There are many reports out there of armed civilians protecting their homes and businesses. This I do support, as a right.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 01:20:03 PM
I'm hard pressed to think ANY cop in the US EVER shoots a person at a routine traffic stop without some complicating situation.


https://www.cnn.com/2014/09/25/justice/south-carolina-trooper-shooting/index.html
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 01:22:44 PM
Sounds like they made an arrest in the shootings
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2020, 01:23:57 PM
Sounds like they made an arrest in the shootings
Congrats on their first arrest in all of this, I guess?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 01:24:53 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2014/09/25/justice/south-carolina-trooper-shooting/index.html
Looks like a bad shooting, but is obviously not a routine traffic stop.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2020, 01:25:50 PM
This governor needs to resign.

Rep. Bryan Steil, R-District 1, issued this statement this morning following the third night of violence in Kenosha: 

"I ask the nation to join me in praying for our community of Kenosha. Last night the situation went from bad to worse. We are once again still gathering the facts. The violence must be stopped. Yesterday, Governor Evers sent 250 National Guard to Kenosha. This was woefully insufficient. Yesterday, I asked the President for additional assistance. He agreed. The offer was rejected by Governor Evers. Again, I call on the Governor to accept the President’s offer of assistance, supported by Kenosha officials, which includes National Guard from other states and federal law enforcement officers. The violence needs to stop now.”
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 26, 2020, 01:26:08 PM
I would expect that a sizable segment of the looters will be discouraged from looting going forward, now that they know that a few of the town folk are willing to stand up to them. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 26, 2020, 01:27:26 PM
How many drivers to police shoot every year for a routine traffic violation?

What percentage of stops end in a shooting when the only issue is a traffic violation?


https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpp15.pdf

This is from 2015. There were roughly 27 million traffic stops that year. The number of people killed by police that year was 965.

So, even if every single person of those 965 was killed during a traffic stop (which is ridiculous)  that would still mean your chances of getting killed during a traffic stop were 965 out of 27 million or 0.000035 percent, and that number doesn’t take into account the behavior of the people being pulled over.

If a cop pulls you over and you obey his commands you have a better chance of being struck by lightning  than dying at his hands.

But the narrative is anytime a cop pulls over a black person there is really good chance they’ll end up shooting them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 01:29:49 PM
Looks like a bad shooting, but is obviously not a routine traffic stop.


?? He was stopped for a seat belt violation. Not sure what routine means of it isn't that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 26, 2020, 01:31:59 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2014/09/25/justice/south-carolina-trooper-shooting/index.html
This happened 8 years ago so yes it has happened but is not a everyday event

according to the article the driver made an unexpected move

all I can say is Ive been stopped before and knew not to make any fast unexpected moves

if I need to get into the glove box I ask permission first and show both hands moving slowly

it seems to me that many people have a chip on their shoulder when stopped by a cop

they become confrontational which is exactly what you should not do

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 01:33:19 PM
He made a motion that was misunderstood, it's not routine when that happens.  This isn't hard to understand.

The police pull you over for speeding and simply shoot you without any basis at all except you're black.

Do police make mistakes?  Obviously, they do.  In the above case, the individual made a motion that is NOT routine.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 26, 2020, 01:37:04 PM
Trump just announced hes sending in law enforcement to stop the rioting so I guess the Governor refuses to do so
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 01:38:18 PM
He made a motion that was misunderstood, it's not routine when that happens.  This isn't hard to understand.

The police pull you over for speeding and simply shoot you without any basis at all except you're black.

Do police make mistakes?  Obviously, they do.  In the above case, the individual made a motion that is NOT routine.
It was routine. The cop asked for his license and the guy reached for his wallet. Which is literally what anyone would do.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 26, 2020, 01:44:13 PM
It was routine. The cop asked for his license and the guy reached for his wallet. Which is literally what anyone would do.

the article states:
When Groubert asks for Jones' license, Jones pivots toward the vehicle he just exited -- the driver's door is still open -- and leans inside as if to retrieve something, the video shows.

He should have taken more care to let the cop know he needed to get his license from the car and where it was

then upon getting permission he moves slowly to retrieve his license
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 01:44:30 PM
I would expect that a sizable segment of the looters will be discouraged from looting going forward, now that they know that a few of the town folk are willing to stand up to them.
The townsfolk arrested wasn't from the town
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 26, 2020, 01:44:37 PM
It was routine. The cop asked for his license and the guy reached for his wallet. Which is literally what anyone would do.
Totally agree. Guy did nothing wrong and the cop overreacted. Can we agree that is the exception to the rule?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2020, 01:47:29 PM
Trump just announced hes sending in law enforcement to stop the rioting so I guess the Governor refuses to do so
Yes, federal agents and more national guard are on their way.

The governor could have had all of this on Monday.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 26, 2020, 01:48:09 PM
Totally agree. Guy did nothing wrong and the cop overreacted. Can we agree that is the exception to the rule?
He may have over reacted but the driver has a responsibility to act slowly and to get permission for any action he needs to take
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 26, 2020, 01:48:49 PM
Yes, federal agents and more national guard are on their way.

The governor could have had all of this on Monday.
I guess the Governor is have a blue week
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 01:49:27 PM
Totally agree. Guy did nothing wrong and the cop overreacted. Can we agree that is the exception to the rule?
Absolutely. Deadly shootings are not the norm, though they are a bit of the tip of the iceberg - how many people end up with a gun pointed at them, or are detained far longer than necessary? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 26, 2020, 01:53:23 PM
Absolutely. Deadly shootings are not the norm, though they are a bit of the tip of the iceberg - how many people end up with a gun pointed at them, or are detained far longer than necessary?
building straw men
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 26, 2020, 01:53:58 PM
He may have over reacted but the driver has a responsibility to act slowly and to get permission for any action he needs to take
I agree but I’ll give the driver a slight pass for having a natural human reaction. Cop wants his license and he instinctively reaches back in the truck to get it.

Thank God my dad didn’t listen to Doc Rivers and actually instructed his white son on how to interact with cops.  Both hands on the wheel, no sudden movements, ask the cop for permission to move your hands from the wheel for any reason and tell him the reason you need to do so. It’s advice that has served me well in my many traffic stops.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 26, 2020, 01:54:21 PM
He may have over reacted but the driver has a responsibility to act slowly and to get permission for any action he needs to take
A "responsibility"? I'm not sure. Is that the most prudent and smartest action? Yes. 

But the cop asks for your wallet and you're complying with what he directly requested you to do, maybe the presumption should be that you're doing what you're told. 

When I get pulled over I make sure I have my license, insurance, registration all out before the officer approaches my vehicle. I have the engine off, keys on the dash (at least for cars that still use an ignition key, like the Jeep), and my hands on the steering wheel. That's what I was taught by my dad.

I don't do this because I feel I have a "responsibility" to do so, I do it because he's got a gun and I don't know if he's having a bad day or is particularly on edge, and I'm not going to take that chance. And because all he needs to say is "he was reaching for something" and he's going to get cleared, but I'm going to be the one who is dead. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 01:55:20 PM
He may have over reacted but the driver has a responsibility to act slowly and to get permission for any action he needs to take
Why is that? Why do we have this special rule that somehow we are inviting summary execution from the government of we don't act slowly and ask permission to do things like reach for our wallet after being instructed to?  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 01:56:46 PM
This cop didn't get "cleared" obviously.  I don't agree with the notion that cops "get cleared" easily and after they made a mistake.  I'm sure some do.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 01:57:42 PM
building straw men
It is not a straw man. Police pointing their gun at people has become somewhat disturbingly common and accepted
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 26, 2020, 01:58:06 PM
Absolutely. Deadly shootings are not the norm, though they are a bit of the tip of the iceberg - how many people end up with a gun pointed at them, or are detained far longer than necessary?
Once again, there are bad people in all professions. The SC case is an abnormality, not that it excuses the officers actions. But it is NOT typical of 99.999% of traffic stops, regardless of the race of the person being pulled over.

The simple solution is to comply with the officers orders, tell the officer your intention if you need to retrieve something from the vehicle and show both or your hands to the officer to let them know you are not a threat. Police officers all want to go home at the end of their shift. They are used to dealing with the worst people in our society and may have a hard time believing that the person they pulled over is any different. Give the officer some respect and appreciate that he does not know you or your intentions. He just wants to make it home safely. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 02:00:20 PM
It is not a straw man. Police pointing their gun at people has become somewhat disturbingly common and accepted
On what do you base your presumption that it "has become somewhat disturbingly common"?
Or accepted?

Is this some new trend for which you can show data?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 26, 2020, 02:02:04 PM
It is not a straw man. Police pointing their gun at people has become somewhat disturbingly common and accepted
A claim with zero evidence to back it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 02:03:03 PM
Once again, there are bad people in all professions. The SC case is an abnormality, not that it excuses the officers actions. But it is NOT typical of 99.999% of traffic stops, regardless of the race of the person being pulled over.

The simple solution is to comply with the officers orders, tell the officer your intention if you need to retrieve something from the vehicle and show both or your hands to the officer to let them know you are not a threat. Police officers all want to go home at the end of their shift. They are used to dealing with the worst people in our society and may have a hard time believing that the person they pulled over is any different. Give the officer some respect and appreciate that he does not know you or your intentions. He just wants to make it home safely.
Literally everyone just wants to make it home at the end of their shift. Pizza delivery drivers are notoriously victimized yet I've never thought I should ask permission before reaching for my wallet when dealing with them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 26, 2020, 02:04:16 PM
Totally agree. Guy did nothing wrong and the cop overreacted. Can we agree that is the exception to the rule?
How many exceptions until it's a rule?



For a white person, a traffic stop endangers your wallet.
For a black person, a traffic stop endangers your life.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2020, 02:04:34 PM
The townsfolk arrested wasn't from the town
Antioch, IL. It borders Kenosha County. Sounds like answered a call to arms from the local militia. Sad all the way around. It's too bad this is still the first and only arrest in this whole thing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 26, 2020, 02:08:24 PM
When you assume...

You are not assuming correctly.
OK. So the follow up would be, does the insurance cover riots or civil unrest? 

If it doesn't, it's a moot point. If it does, it means someones drive for rhetorical flourish put these businesses in bad spots. I'm trying to understand if it's the former or the latter. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 26, 2020, 02:09:45 PM
Literally everyone just wants to make it home at the end of their shift. Pizza delivery drivers are notoriously victimized yet I've never thought I should ask permission before reaching for my wallet when dealing with them.
Comparing apples to Oldsmobile's.

I don't know of any pizza delivery drivers that openly carry with the authority to arrest you. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 26, 2020, 02:11:07 PM
this is why ESPN makes for crap background noise

I don't do it
Good background imagery though. I worked in offices where we have TVs just running. Sometimes they flipped to local news and left them there.

It got super weird with afternoon soaps. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 02:11:30 PM
For a black person, a traffic stop endangers your life. 
How many black people are killed by police in a traffic stop in a year?  How many are without justification?

Is this a serious danger?  Or just something people hype with no data?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 26, 2020, 02:14:01 PM
How many black people are killed by police in a traffic stop in a year?  How many are without justification?

Is this a serious danger?  Or just something people hype with no data?
Depends where you live.  
A lot of black parents have to sit their son down and have a talk with them that my parents never needed to have with me.  And it's about traffic stops.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 26, 2020, 02:14:04 PM
How many drivers to police shoot every year for a routine traffic violation?

What percentage of stops end in a shooting when the only issue is a traffic violation?


Few and few. 

But then again, a tiny percentage of traffic stops end with the police in any danger. None the less, those few inform behavior in an outsized way. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2020, 02:15:44 PM
OK. So the follow up would be, does the insurance cover riots or civil unrest?

If it doesn't, it's a moot point. If it does, it means someones drive for rhetorical flourish put these businesses in bad spots. I'm trying to understand if it's the former or the latter.
No. Riots are an act of terrorism.

I don't know WTF civil unrest is, but I know I'm civil and I'm unrested. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 26, 2020, 02:16:08 PM
How many exceptions until it's a rule?



For a white person, a traffic stop endangers your wallet.
For a black person, a traffic stop endangers your life. 
Not true. Like, not true at all.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 26, 2020, 02:18:00 PM
I would expect that a sizable segment of the looters will be discouraged from looting going forward, now that they know that a few of the town folk are willing to stand up to them.
I wish it were so. 

But it seems the shooter was there for the fight rather than town folk, and Americans of all sorts don't like to back down when it's probably wise. Might end up with some protesters ready to defend themselves from other out of towners. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 02:18:06 PM
A claim with zero evidence to back it
https://www.abc15.com/news/local-news/investigations/data-shows-phoenix-police-pulled-pointed-guns-at-450-people-in-one-month

Holding people at gunpoint is fairly common in some situations, especially if an officer thinks a gun might be present.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.com/amphtml/video-shows-black-children-held-023714399.html
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 02:19:51 PM
The SC situation was pretty clearly very bad on the cop's part, but I didn't notice anything to make me think the cop wanted to shoot a black person that day.  The driver might have been white and had the same thing happen.  And as noted, this is from 8 years ago.  I don't fault the driver for that either.  It's certainly a good idea to avoid reaching for anything when a cop if interacting with you without explaining your actions, but it's not "required" in any sense.

So, even this situation is rare. 

As for cops pointing guns at people more frequently now, that's just a baseless allegation.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 02:19:53 PM
Comparing apples to Oldsmobile's.

I don't know of any pizza delivery drivers that openly carry with the authority to arrest you.
Right. That's my point. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 02:20:36 PM
https://www.abc15.com/news/local-news/investigations/data-shows-phoenix-police-pulled-pointed-guns-at-450-people-in-one-month

Holding people at gunpoint is fairly common in some situations, especially if an officer thinks a gun might be present.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.com/amphtml/video-shows-black-children-held-023714399.html
Has this increased over time, as you claimed?

Does it happen?  Duh.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2020, 02:21:32 PM
Few and few.

But then again, a tiny percentage of traffic stops end with the police in any danger. None the less, those few inform behavior in an outsized way.
Unfortunately for all of us, including the police, they are extremely on edge now. They have to approach any stop under the assumption that they are in harm's way. Tough job that not too many want right now. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 26, 2020, 02:22:26 PM
He made a motion that was misunderstood, it's not routine when that happens.  This isn't hard to understand.

The police pull you over for speeding and simply shoot you without any basis at all except you're black.

Do police make mistakes?  Obviously, they do.  In the above case, the individual made a motion that is NOT routine.
Cincy, I don't mean to be rude, but if even the slightest thing that could lead to a shooting makes it not routine, then of course no routine stops end in shootings. I mean, a shooting at all makes it not routine.

It also speaks to one of the issues. Life is messy. People are messy. Cops are even sometimes messy. But they are also given a measure of control that something needs to be exactly routine, and if it's not, deadly force is quickly involved. 

To take it another way, if any not routine movements make the stop not routine, we probably have many fewer routine stops. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2020, 02:23:23 PM
I wish it were so.

But it seems the shooter was there for the fight rather than town folk, and Americans of all sorts don't like to back down when it's probably wise. Might end up with some protesters ready to defend themselves from other out of towners.
They are not this. Almost everyone is not from here, FYI.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 02:25:30 PM
Cincy, I don't mean to be rude, but if even the slightest thing that could lead to a shooting makes it not routine, then of course no routine stops end in shootings. I mean, a shooting at all makes it not routine.
You're not being rude at all.  I was trying to consider a "routine" traffic stop as one without any provocation or misunderstood behaviors, where the cop just opened fire because he didn't like black people.

But I'm fine if we include this one as one example.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 02:26:32 PM
Has this increased over time, as you claimed?

Does it happen?  Duh.
I said it had become common and accepted. Which it has.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 26, 2020, 02:26:38 PM
You're not being rude at all.  I was trying to consider a "routine" traffic stop as one without any provocation or misunderstood behaviors, where the cop just opened fire because he didn't like black people.

But I'm fine if we include this one as one example.
I think the issue is the bolded is a very wide category.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 26, 2020, 02:28:33 PM
I wish it were so.

But it seems the shooter was there for the fight rather than town folk, and Americans of all sorts don't like to back down when it's probably wise. Might end up with some protesters ready to defend themselves from other out of towners.
They quit being protests when the first window was broken or the first fire was set. At that point, it became an illegal mob and any protester should have either stopped those bent on destruction or left the scene. Those that say are complicit in the riot. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 02:30:07 PM
They quit being protests when the first window was broken or the first fire was set. At that point, it became an illegal mob and any protester should have either stopped those bent on destruction or left the scene. Those that say are complicit in the riot.
Not a fan of losing my first amendment rights based on what someone else does
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 26, 2020, 02:30:35 PM
Unfortunately for all of us, including the police, they are extremely on edge now. They have to approach any stop under the assumption that they are in harm's way. Tough job that not too many want right now.
By that logic, I should assume any interaction with a cop could lead to him or her harming me for something extremely mundane.

If they think I might kill them in every interaction, only they have far more leeway to kill me with less consequence (I cannot plead self defense in any case), then I really shouldn't care how if I look at the numbers, it's not really that likely I end up in a bag.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 26, 2020, 02:32:36 PM
https://www.abc15.com/news/local-news/investigations/data-shows-phoenix-police-pulled-pointed-guns-at-450-people-in-one-month

Holding people at gunpoint is fairly common in some situations, especially if an officer thinks a gun might be present.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.com/amphtml/video-shows-black-children-held-023714399.html
What constitutes common? What constitutes accepted?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 26, 2020, 02:33:47 PM
No. Riots are an act of terrorism.

I don't know WTF civil unrest is, but I know I'm civil and I'm unrested.
Riots and civil unrest would be actual terms in the insurance if they appear. And in a sense of contracts, I'm 95 percent sure riots and terrorism would likely be considered separate things (a lawyer could correct me).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 26, 2020, 02:35:23 PM
Not a fan of losing my first amendment rights based on what someone else does
and the town isnt fond of having their property destroyed

based on someone else they had nothing to do with

would you protest at a bank when its being robbed

the protesters should leave for their own safety but are free to stay if they wish
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 02:35:51 PM
Not a fan of losing my first amendment rights based on what someone else does
Our rights are all limited, all of them.  And once the police or mayor declare a riot or a curfew, you lost your right to protest.  Obviously, an sensible protester who was interested in peaceful protest would comply.

It's somewhat akin to being required to wear a mask in public because of a public health emergency.  

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 26, 2020, 02:36:41 PM
What constitutes common? What constitutes accepted?
Based on our convo here, it seems like it would be accepted in a modestly wide range of situations at least by our small group. Perhaps we are outliers. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 02:38:05 PM
What constitutes common? What constitutes accepted?
Phoenix has 450 such reported encounters in a month. Seems like a lot, Though I guess everyone's mileage varies. The second link shows some kids, including a six year old, being handcuffed at gunpoint due to department policy. That says it's pretty well accepted.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 26, 2020, 02:38:18 PM
Not a fan of losing my first amendment rights based on what someone else does
If you and a friend stop at a bank and he decides to rob it and you both get in the car to head out, you are an accessory and will eventually loose all of your rights. Part of being a citizen is the responsibility to uphold the law and separate yourself from those that don't. If you choose to continue with the crowd breaking the law, you are complicit. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 26, 2020, 02:39:58 PM
They are not this. Almost everyone is not from here, FYI.
This is such a critical aspect of this.  These are people being brought in- and their purpose is chaos and far removed from the cause of social or racial justice. 

if a cop makes a horrible, split second decision in a heated moment, even if they are well trained and have good intentions, they might end up killing or hurting someone.  We know this, and this case could turn out that way. 

but it’s still something that happened in a very heated, charged, emotional few seconds. Not premeditated. And let’s ask ourselves, who created this heated moment and supercharged situation? 

now looking at the other side where you have violent people ( and let’s be real/ protests are not at night after curfew), in some cases armed with weapons and in many cases armed with other items use for destruction. We know that many of them come in from other geographic areas.  In many cases they are supplied with their tools of destruction.  This violence and mayhem is 100% pre-meditated, and I don’t think anyone with a brain can claim that it will help the cause of social justice, and in fact usually tears down the neighborhoods where social justice and economic viability could use a little help.

Why would a governor not try to immediately quell the violence? Think about it for minute. Why? When I offered help to do so. There is only one viable reason that I can think of that is that like so many before him he does not want the violence and Mayham to end. He sees political gain in it.  Why would a governor not try to immediately quell the violence? Think about it for minute. Why? When offered help to do so. There is only one viable reason that I can think of that is that like so many before him he does not want the violence and Mayhem to end. He sees political gain in it.  

So in addition to talking about what we can do to fix racial injustice, which I agree is very real, we should be talking about what our leaders do or don’t do to help with the situation.

This may set race relations back in Wisconsin 10 or 20 years.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2020, 02:41:13 PM
Riots and civil unrest would be actual terms in the insurance if they appear. And in a sense of contracts, I'm 95 percent sure riots and terrorism would likely be considered separate things (a lawyer could correct me).
I called my insurance company. Any damage from this rioting is not covered, as it's an act of terrorism.

Straight from the horse's mouth.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2020, 02:43:44 PM
This is such a critical aspect of this.  These are people being brought in- and their purpose is chaos and far removed from the cause of social or racial justice. 
Domestic terrorism. And yes, this will not help the cause at all.  That's not what they are here for.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 26, 2020, 02:46:15 PM
I called my insurance company. Any damage from this rioting is not covered, as it's an act of terrorism.

Straight from the horse's mouth.
So this rioting is considered terrorism, or all rioting is? 

I suppose in either case, it's a sharp/ruthless choice by the insurance companies, unless they never covered riots to begin with. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2020, 02:52:51 PM
So this rioting is considered terrorism, or all rioting is?

I suppose in either case, it's a sharp/ruthless choice by the insurance companies, unless they never covered riots to begin with.
I'm not sure why you keep pushing this. This is domestic terrorism.


domestic terrorism (noun)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 26, 2020, 02:54:38 PM

This may set race relations back in Wisconsin 10 or 20 years.
Oh, I dunno about that. They've been powerful strained for a long while. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 02:55:02 PM
https://techcrunch.com/2020/08/25/self-charging-thousand-year-battery-startup-ndb-aces-key-tests-and-lands-first-beta-customers/ (https://techcrunch.com/2020/08/25/self-charging-thousand-year-battery-startup-ndb-aces-key-tests-and-lands-first-beta-customers/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 26, 2020, 03:07:30 PM
I'm not sure why you keep pushing this. This is domestic terrorism.


domestic terrorism (noun)
  • the committing of terrorist acts in the perpetrator's own country against their fellow citizens.


I'm pushing it because I'm curious if the push to consider these acts domestic terrorism instead of riots got the insurance companies out of paying. Because it would be both interesting and ironic. 

And the definition, that's not part of any legal code and could be construed extremely widely depending on how one defined a terroristic act. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2020, 03:17:01 PM
Terrorism, the calculated use of violence (https://www.britannica.com/topic/violence) to create a general climate of fear in a population (https://www.britannica.com/science/population-biology-and-anthropology) and thereby to bring about a particular political objective. Terrorism has been practiced by political organizations with both rightist and leftist objectives, by nationalistic and religious groups, by revolutionaries, and even by state institutions such as armies, intelligence services, and police.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2020, 03:23:52 PM
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Sunday, May 31, 2020

Attorney General William P. Barr's Statement on Riots and Domestic Terrorism


Attorney General William P. Barr has issued the following statement:
“With the rioting that is occurring in many of our cities around the country, the voices of peaceful and legitimate protests have been hijacked by violent radical elements.  Groups of outside radicals and agitators are exploiting the situation to pursue their own separate, violent, and extremist agenda.
It is time to stop watching the violence and to confront and stop it.  The continued violence and destruction of property endangers the lives and livelihoods of others, and interferes with the rights of peaceful protestors, as well as all other citizens. 
It also undercuts the urgent work that needs to be done – through constructive engagement between affected communities and law enforcement leaders – to address legitimate grievances.  Preventing reconciliation and driving us apart is the goal of these radical groups, and we cannot let them succeed. 
It is the responsibility of state and local leaders to ensure that adequate law enforcement resources, including the National Guard where necessary, are deployed on the streets to reestablish law and order.  We saw this finally happen in Minneapolis last night, and it worked. 
Federal law enforcement actions will be directed at apprehending and charging the violent radical agitators who have hijacked peaceful protest and are engaged in violations of federal law.
To identify criminal organizers and instigators, and to coordinate federal resources with our state and local partners, federal law enforcement is using our existing network of 56 regional FBI Joint Terrorism Task Forces (JTTF). 
The violence instigated and carried out by Antifa and other similar groups in connection with the rioting is domestic terrorism and will be treated accordingly.”



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 26, 2020, 03:24:50 PM
I'm pushing it because I'm curious if the push to consider these acts domestic terrorism instead of riots got the insurance companies out of paying. Because it would be both interesting and ironic.

And the definition, that's not part of any legal code and could be construed extremely widely depending on how one defined a terroristic act.
One of the excuses rioters use and Ive heard them say it is that hey its covered by insurance so the property owners really arent losing anything

with that logic you can rob banks and steal almost anything you want with no harm done

brilliant 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 03:26:31 PM
I doubt most looters think about it at all really, it's just THE MAN they are hitting, not some small time business owner.

And they get TVs.

Some might justify their actions after the fact in that vein.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2020, 03:27:37 PM
One of the excuses rioters use and Ive heard them say it is that hey its covered by insurance so the property owners really arent losing anything

with that logic you can rob banks and steal almost anything you want with no harm done

brilliant
I've heard that too, and those people are full of it. Unless they have a rider to cover domestic terrorism, they DO lose everything.

My friend who owns a chocolate shop chose to buy the rider. Her insurance premium almost doubled.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 03:46:58 PM
Our rights are all limited, all of them.  And once the police or mayor declare a riot or a curfew, you lost your right to protest.  Obviously, an sensible protester who was interested in peaceful protest would comply.

It's somewhat akin to being required to wear a mask in public because of a public health emergency. 


The well known 10 pm exception to the 1st Amendment
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 26, 2020, 03:48:15 PM
Sadly, our attorney general has lost the confidence of more than half of the population. I find zero comfort in anything he says. That is atypical. 

Sadly, what is going on has turned into viewing things universally through a political lens. That is atypical. We are as far apart from a united country as we have been in my lifetime. That is more than sad, it's distressing.

Badge: your definition of terrorism (and I agree with it) is not rioting. It is the "calculated use" of violence, which rioting isn't. That doesn't make rioting ok, but it is fundamentally different. Now, instigators--those who plan and intend to incite rioting--they may be fairly accused of terrorism. Even in this situation, that is a very small group of people--and reports from non-politicized government agencies appear to view the problem as coming more from those opposed to the protesters than those who align with them. That's not universal, but in the aggregate.

As I said a few pages back, this whole thing sucks.

But I'll add to that: as long as our leaders fan the flames of division, it will get worse.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 26, 2020, 03:51:56 PM
The well known 10 pm exception to the 1st Amendment
Many of the best known and respected "peaceful protesters" throughout history would scoff at the notion that because they were told not to protest at a particular time or place, they wouldn't do so. Certainly Ghandi, MLK, and Mandela made their political careers in non-violent protests that broke the law. That is essentially the definition of civil disobedience. It is civil (aka peaceful), but disobedient (unlawful).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 03:53:31 PM
I'm pushing it because I'm curious if the push to consider these acts domestic terrorism instead of riots got the insurance companies out of paying. Because it would be both interesting and ironic.

And the definition, that's not part of any legal code and could be construed extremely widely depending on how one defined a terroristic act.
Just so. Obviously the language of the policy is most important. But if it covers things like vandalism, I'm not sure how they can justify not covering vandalism based on the political viewpoint of the vandal. Maybe that's why Bob Barr is making a point about it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 26, 2020, 03:56:40 PM
It is true that the jurisprudence around the right to peaceably assemble limits the lawfulness of such assemblies. A peaceable assembly is not necessarily legal under the first amendment. But the point of protest is to get attention, and disobedience is one of the classic ways to accomplish that aim--again, Ghandi, MLK, and Mandela are celebrated for it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 26, 2020, 04:05:19 PM
Phoenix has 450 such reported encounters in a month. Seems like a lot, Though I guess everyone's mileage varies. The second link shows some kids, including a six year old, being handcuffed at gunpoint due to department policy. That says it's pretty well accepted.
450 out of how many total encounters?  What was the behavior of the people being pulled over?  Who decides on what is a lot?

That picture does not prove it is accepted. Something happening does not mean it is accepted. This is the shit that drives me crazy.  You are pushing a narrative that you really can’t back up. “Police pointing their guns at people has become too common and accepted.”  And these narratives too often go unchallenged.  Doc Rivers said white people don’t have to worry about how a traffic stop might end. Bull. Shit.  Someone needs to start calling people out on this crap.  These claims of cops laying waste to black people do not hold up statistically.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 26, 2020, 04:07:50 PM
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Sunday, May 31, 2020

Attorney General William P. Barr's Statement on Riots and Domestic Terrorism


Attorney General William P. Barr has issued the following statement:
“With the rioting that is occurring in many of our cities around the country, the voices of peaceful and legitimate protests have been hijacked by violent radical elements.  Groups of outside radicals and agitators are exploiting the situation to pursue their own separate, violent, and extremist agenda.
It is time to stop watching the violence and to confront and stop it.  The continued violence and destruction of property endangers the lives and livelihoods of others, and interferes with the rights of peaceful protestors, as well as all other citizens.
It also undercuts the urgent work that needs to be done – through constructive engagement between affected communities and law enforcement leaders – to address legitimate grievances.  Preventing reconciliation and driving us apart is the goal of these radical groups, and we cannot let them succeed.
It is the responsibility of state and local leaders to ensure that adequate law enforcement resources, including the National Guard where necessary, are deployed on the streets to reestablish law and order.  We saw this finally happen in Minneapolis last night, and it worked.
Federal law enforcement actions will be directed at apprehending and charging the violent radical agitators who have hijacked peaceful protest and are engaged in violations of federal law.
To identify criminal organizers and instigators, and to coordinate federal resources with our state and local partners, federal law enforcement is using our existing network of 56 regional FBI Joint Terrorism Task Forces (JTTF).
The violence instigated and carried out by Antifa and other similar groups in connection with the rioting is domestic terrorism and will be treated accordingly.”




Badge, I'm not talking about if this is considered domestic terrorism. I get that it is according to the DOJ. 

What I am wondering is if it was not considered that and instead was considered just a riot, would insurance pay out? And if the answer is yes, it would imply that the above proclamation in some way hindered the ability of folks to recover from the damage. 

And that would be interesting.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 26, 2020, 04:10:05 PM
Just so. Obviously the language of the policy is most important. But if it covers things like vandalism, I'm not sure how they can justify not covering vandalism based on the political viewpoint of the vandal. Maybe that's why Bob Barr is making a point about it.
I mean, the point being made is more about politics and PR, and that's what it is.

But if it gives insurance, something folks paid for, an out, well that behavior from an insurance company would be unsurprising and the situation would be to a degree ironic.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2020, 04:11:21 PM
Sadly, our attorney general has lost the confidence of more than half of the population. I find zero comfort in anything he says. That is atypical.

Sadly, what is going on has turned into viewing things universally through a political lens. That is atypical. We are as far apart from a united country as we have been in my lifetime. That is more than sad, it's distressing.

Badge: your definition of terrorism (and I agree with it) is not rioting. It is the "calculated use" of violence, which rioting isn't. That doesn't make rioting ok, but it is fundamentally different. Now, instigators--those who plan and intend to incite rioting--they may be fairly accused of terrorism. Even in this situation, that is a very small group of people--and reports from non-politicized government agencies appear to view the problem as coming more from those opposed to the protesters than those who align with them. That's not universal, but in the aggregate.

As I said a few pages back, this whole thing sucks.

But I'll add to that: as long as our leaders fan the flames of division, it will get worse.

These rioters parking their cars (license plates covered with duct tape) and leaving with gas cans and flairs are not calculating? 

Because this is what is going on here.

This is terrorism, and it's politically motivated. And yes, it sucks. It also sucks that more of them are coming this weekend. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 04:11:45 PM
450 out of how many total encounters?  What was the behavior of the people being pulled over?  Who decides on what is a lot?

That picture does not prove it is accepted. Something happening does not mean it is accepted. This is the shit that drives me crazy.  You are pushing a narrative that you really can’t back up. “Police pointing their guns at people has become too common and accepted.”  And these narratives too often go unchallenged.  Doc Rivers said white people don’t have to worry about how a traffic stop might end. Bull. Shit.  Someone needs to start calling people out on this crap.  These claims of cops laying waste to black people do not hold up statistically.
What's the counter argument? If 450 in one jurisdiction in one month isn't common, what is? If it doesn't bother you, isn't it by definition accepted? I could post links all day of people being held at gunpoint by the police - my point is that once it makes it into the policy book, it's pretty danged accepted.

Here's another one

https://www.google.com/amp/s/newsone.com/3992931/graphic-video-black-teens-who-needed-help-held-at-gunpoint-cops/amp/
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 04:15:34 PM
Milwaukee Bucks scheduled for a playoff game right now - they haven't come onto the court out of protest
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 26, 2020, 04:18:43 PM
Off topic and not to hop onto the complaining about 2020 bandwagon, I dream of a world where the 2021 SOC is mostly focused on arguments over chili and vehicles I'm not interested in. Maybe which pizzas we find acceptable too.

Also, my favorite local BBQ place had been letting me pre-order single serving meals. Now they upped it to pre-ordering only family meals and needing walk-up for the rest. The line is always long, and I don't know if I want to deal with that. Not that I haven't gone there 5-6 times in the pandemic. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 04:20:05 PM
Off topic and not to hop onto the complaining about 2020 bandwagon, I dream of a world where the 2021 SOC is mostly focused on arguments over chili and vehicles I'm not interested in. Maybe which pizzas we find acceptable too.
Maybe even some college football
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 04:24:32 PM
It is not a straw man. Police pointing their gun at people has become somewhat disturbingly common and accepted
You claimed it "has become", as in, it is now more frequent than it was previously.  I see no evidence it HAS BECOME more common than it was.

The real question should be how often a gun is pointed at someone without cause and against policy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 04:28:49 PM
You claimed it "has become", as in, it is now more frequent than it was previously.  I see no evidence it HAS BECOME more common than it was.

The real question should be how often a gun is pointed at someone without cause and against policy.
But why is that? If you are bring held at gunpoint I'm not sure it's very comforting to know it's per department policy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 26, 2020, 04:31:51 PM
Maybe even some college football
You know what, maybe I'll do some of that. 

I was reading an article from Ramzy over at 11W. It was about the curse of Bert running his mouth, which was followed by UW losing every game to OSU and PSU. It was a weird article because while the PSU part kinda makes more sense, the only curse-y loss to OSU came before the boast. Every other year, OSU has been better in about the way OSU is better than most teams. It felt kinda silly and chintzy in a way. But the main thing that kinda got my attention was some savoring of the 2012 OSU win in Madison.

It was interesting because it painted it as a clash of high drama, with a memorable play (Shazier punching the ball from Ball's hands). And in truth, the game is awful. OSU was better by far, but UW just made it a rock fight. UW had one smash-y TD drive. Half of OSU's points in regulation were on a punt return. Wisconsin only got to OT because a QB who couldn't throw led a drive 52 yards in a minute, erasing a 2nd and 21. The way the game went was kinda embarrassing, though OSU came out undefeated. 

Do OSU fans think fondly of that game? Or not think about it at all, and the writing was just flourish?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2020, 04:36:09 PM
Milwaukee Bucks scheduled for a playoff game right now - they haven't come onto the court out of protest
That'll help. Nothing.

None of this is.

And yeah, 2020 can go suck ass.


(https://i.imgur.com/X2Erh8a.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 26, 2020, 04:43:12 PM
Milwaukee Bucks scheduled for a playoff game right now - they haven't come onto the court out of protest
they should forfeit 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 04:45:12 PM
But why is that? If you are bring held at gunpoint I'm not sure it's very comforting to know it's per department policy.

If you don't like department policy, send them a petition.

You claimed, without evidence, that this is more common today than previously.  Of course, you claim a lot of stuff with no evidence.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 05:01:34 PM
If you don't like department policy, send them a petition.

You claimed, without evidence, that this is more common today than previously.  Of course, you claim a lot of stuff with no evidence.


Yes, obviously the statistics, video, and photographic evidence is all a lie, and your prior deep thoughts on the matter are clearly superior to such meager evidence.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 05:02:28 PM
they should forfeit
Sounds like the Lakers game is going to be rescheduled too. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 05:03:46 PM
You know what, maybe I'll do some of that.

I was reading an article from Ramzy over at 11W. It was about the curse of Bert running his mouth, which was followed by UW losing every game to OSU and PSU. It was a weird article because while the PSU part kinda makes more sense, the only curse-y loss to OSU came before the boast. Every other year, OSU has been better in about the way OSU is better than most teams. It felt kinda silly and chintzy in a way. But the main thing that kinda got my attention was some savoring of the 2012 OSU win in Madison.

It was interesting because it painted it as a clash of high drama, with a memorable play (Shazier punching the ball from Ball's hands). And in truth, the game is awful. OSU was better by far, but UW just made it a rock fight. UW had one smash-y TD drive. Half of OSU's points in regulation were on a punt return. Wisconsin only got to OT because a QB who couldn't throw led a drive 52 yards in a minute, erasing a 2nd and 21. The way the game went was kinda embarrassing, though OSU came out undefeated.

Do OSU fans think fondly of that game? Or not think about it at all, and the writing was just flourish?
I can only vaguely remember the game. My main recollection from that season was the Urbs was a hell of a coach because the 2012 team was kind of crappy yet went 12-0
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 05:05:22 PM
Yes, obviously the statistics, video, and photographic evidence is all a lie, and your prior deep thoughts on the matter are clearly superior to such meager evidence.
You have presented zip to show this is more common today than previously.

As usual, you claim to have, but you haven't.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 26, 2020, 05:06:28 PM
they should forfeit
It's absurd that they haven't asked for your input.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 26, 2020, 05:08:03 PM
You have presented zip to show this is more common today than previously.

As usual, you claim to have, but you haven't.
You're dwelling on something that doesn't matter.  If it's always been so prevalent, that's WORSE.  

Obviously, with smartphones and bodycams, there's far more footage of it, compared to 20 years ago.  That's what he's saying.  But your counterpoint is worse than his suggestion.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 05:11:05 PM
You have presented zip to show this is more common today than previously.

As usual, you claim to have, but you haven't.
I didn't really claim that. I said it had become common and accepted. I don't know when it became common and accepted. I'm not omnipotent. The statistics on killing are nebulous, and the statistics on cops pointing guns at people are infinitely more nebulous. 

So focusing on some semantic point strikes me as a pretty bad faith argument. We have long conversations about whether cops shooting people is ok or not. We have almost no conversations about whether pointing guns at people as a routine policy is ok or not. That's because it's become common and accepted (at least when they are pointed at certain people).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 05:11:45 PM
My counter point is factual.  He made a claim and failed to support it.  Simple as that.

I try not to make claims without at least some evidence to back it up.

In this case, there is no evidence, none, to suggest that police hold civilians at gun point more often than in the past.  Who knows?  How could we know?  If there is evidence, show it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 26, 2020, 05:12:50 PM
Off topic and not to hop onto the complaining about 2020 bandwagon, I dream of a world where the 2021 SOC is mostly focused on arguments over chili and vehicles I'm not interested in. Maybe which pizzas we find acceptable too.

Also, my favorite local BBQ place had been letting me pre-order single serving meals. Now they upped it to pre-ordering only family meals and needing walk-up for the rest. The line is always long, and I don't know if I want to deal with that. Not that I haven't gone there 5-6 times in the pandemic.
The 2020 Fall No-Season Stream of Unconsciousness is what you're looking for. 

I think it was a smart thing to have this one thread to blow off steam to try to localize it and make the rest of the forum more civil. While obviously things get heated due to the fact that we're not going to have B1G Football this fall, most of the debates have been related to whether the decision to postpone has been good/bad and not about politics/race/etc in the way that this thread has become.

So head over to that thread, where we're trying to keep it light, and that way it makes it easier to leave this thread as the only thread to blow off political steam.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 05:14:07 PM
It is not a straw man. Police pointing their gun at people has become somewhat disturbingly common and accepted

HAS BECOME.  Obviously, you are saying it is a recent thing, it's not something that has always been that way, it has become that way of late.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 05:15:12 PM
HAS BECOME.  Obviously, you are saying it is a recent thing, it's not something that has always been that way, it has become that way of late.



A litigation tactic I know well. When you have nothing at all to say to help your cause, focus on some trivial point and never relent.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 05:16:26 PM
So focusing on some semantic point strikes me as a pretty bad faith argument. We have long conversations about whether cops shooting people is ok or not. We have almost no conversations about whether pointing guns at people as a routine policy is ok or not. That's because it's become common and accepted (at least when they are pointed at certain people).
That is ironic.  You don't want to focus on semantics and then claim we're arguing as to whether the police shooting people is ok or not.

Has ANYONE here EVER said "Police shooting people is OK in my book."?  No.  It's a semantic point I suppose.

And yet again you claim pointing guns HAS BECOME more common, with zero evidence.  You THINK that, based on what I don't know.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 26, 2020, 05:19:36 PM
What's the counter argument? If 450 in one jurisdiction in one month isn't common, what is? If it doesn't bother you, isn't it by definition accepted? I could post links all day of people being held at gunpoint by the police - my point is that once it makes it into the policy book, it's pretty danged accepted.

Here's another one

https://www.google.com/amp/s/newsone.com/3992931/graphic-video-black-teens-who-needed-help-held-at-gunpoint-cops/amp/
Who said it didn’t bother me? What reasonable person is ok with a 6 yo being cuffed and being held at gunpoint?  But isolated incidents don’t make for nationwide problems.  I saw the George Floyd incident too. I didn’t accept it as right but I don’t think cops are putting their knees on the throats of people all over the country until they die.

And the total number of encounters provides context.  If they pulled their guns 450 times in 500 encounters I am alarmed. If it was over 10,000 encounters I’m not quite as alarmed.  And even then we don’t know how the people were behaving.

Here is what I know. You claimed police pointing guns at people was becoming too common and accepted.  When pressed on that you provided incomplete data from one city in the country over the course of one month. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 05:24:47 PM
It would be fine to post I think it has become more common.  Maybe that is a result of more video these days.

Clemson has become a football power.  That was not the case fifty years ago.  Has become, it is not semantics.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 26, 2020, 05:27:29 PM
I didn't really claim that. I said it had become common and accepted. I don't know when it became common and accepted. I'm not omnipotent. The statistics on killing are nebulous, and the statistics on cops pointing guns at people are infinitely more nebulous.


Do you not see the irony that in one breath you are saying that cops pointing guns at people has become too common and then in the next you say the statistics on cops pointing guns at people is nebulous?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 26, 2020, 05:32:20 PM
It's easy to condemn rioting, violence, and looting. But one also has to condemn the reasons why rioting happens. And that's a place that many don't want to go.

Go watch MLK Jr.'s "The Other America" speech. It's well worth your time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOWDtDUKz-U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOWDtDUKz-U)
Corporate America sending jobs overseas while their board shills are getting golden parachutes and tax breaks to boot have been greasing the skids for a long time.Corrupt politicians getting raises while voting down benefits for others while taking directives from the 1%.I've been for Main Street against Wall Street for years as I'm sure many here have been.Honest profit earned is great but it appears the Rich and even poor have been represented - the middle class has been screwed.Make to much to get government benefits but not enough to get the write offs/tax breaks of the wealthy.I know a lot of people getting laid off in the local schools yet not one of the too many Admns,nor are they taking pay cuts.I know some of these tossers and they wouldn't cut it in the private sector
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 26, 2020, 05:40:50 PM
Had a good time skiiing.  Took a bus back to Colby, then the re-engined Chevy back to Norman.
Hope they changed the engine out and not just the rod - 327 maybe
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 26, 2020, 05:41:54 PM
In several industrialized countries the beat police don't carry firearms at all. I wish we could do that here, but with our elevated levels of firearms ownership, I don't know that police officers could do their jobs safely without their own firearms. 

That sucks, too.

I don't know if it's more or less common that police draw their handguns on people, but I believe (without knowing or any specific evidence) that we have militarized our police more than in the past. I also believe there have been good reasons for much of that change--for instance most police wear body armor now. That didn't happen by accident.

I'm not sure if we've discussed this here before, but Kalashnikov's rifle revolutionized individual firearms, which, particularly following the expiration of the hideously named "Federal Assault Weapons Ban, has revolutionized the weaponry the common U.S. citizen (who chooses to) carries. Yes, bad guys could always get guns, and what good mob movie doesn't include Tommy guns (fully automatics were't illegal until 1934)? Nonetheless, the individual weapon of choice has changed and is much more powerful now than it used to be. I don't know the specifics, and it isn't limited to a change in rifle ownership--a similar change has occurred in handguns. I suspect (again, without anything more than belief) that police are more fearful now of the threat posed by individual gun owners than in decades past. Which is curious, because although the number of firearms sold has gone up, the number of firearms owners has declined significantly.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 05:50:25 PM
The forerunner was the Sturmgewehr 44. 

https://www.militarytimes.com/off-duty/gearscout/tacticool/2019/12/12/tbt-the-real-story-behind-the-legendary-stg-44-sturmgewehr-rifle/ (https://www.militarytimes.com/off-duty/gearscout/tacticool/2019/12/12/tbt-the-real-story-behind-the-legendary-stg-44-sturmgewehr-rifle/)

Sturmgewehr literally means assault rifle.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 05:51:31 PM
A very low percentage of murders are committed with rifles of all kinds, for obvious reasons.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 05:57:26 PM
Do you not see the irony that in one breath you are saying that cops pointing guns at people has become too common and then in the next you say the statistics on cops pointing guns at people is nebulous?
No. The absence of data makes things very difficult to measure. We don't know how life began. Does that mean life doesn't exist? No. That would be stupid. Similarly, when you have frequent interactions where cops are pointing at guns at people, video of cops holding children at gunpoint, chips saying it's their policy to hold children at gunpoint, it is very easy to say it's become common and accepted.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 05:59:54 PM
Also, cops killing dogs has become common and accepted too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/reason.com/2020/07/31/detroit-police-department-settles-another-dog-shooting-lawsuit-after-video-contradicts-cops-account/%3famp
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 26, 2020, 06:07:20 PM
No. The absence of data makes things very difficult to measure. We don't know how life began. Does that mean life doesn't exist? No. That would be stupid. Similarly, when you have frequent interactions where cops are pointing at guns at people, video of cops holding children at gunpoint, chips saying it's their policy to hold children at gunpoint, it is very easy to say it's become common and accepted.
Your comparison is absurd.  Saying that life exists is factual. Saying cops point guns at people is factual.  Saying it’s common and accepted is an opinion.

I could just as easily say it is uncommon and my claim would have just as much validity as yours.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 06:08:16 PM
Your comparison is absurd.  Saying that life exists is factual. Saying cops point guns at people is factual.  Saying it’s common and accepted is an opinion.

I could just as easily say it is uncommon and my claim would have just as much validity as yours.


Then fucking say it! It's a message board not a peer review article
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 06:20:03 PM
In any exchange of views, it is common for a person to be less clear than he hoped.  Another may question him on the wording, and normally a person would respond "Let me say it this way, perhaps my comments were not precisely what I meant."

If shooting dogs HAS BECOME more common, it's a concern.  One might want to investigate any reasons for that TREND.  If it has stayed constant over time, perhaps adjusted for population etc., then it may be a concern, but perhaps it less of one because it is status quo.  One might wish to change status quo, but it's a different kind of issue.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 06:25:27 PM
If anyone cares, the rifle below is able to fire the same cartridge as the AR-15 at the same rate of fire with the same muzzle velocity etc.  It doesn't look nearly as scary though.  And yes, it can accept very large capacity magazines, just like an AR-15.

(https://i.imgur.com/iGOSusX.png)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 06:29:00 PM
Yet another thing that has become common and accepted - full body cavity searches

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.azcentral.com/amp/1873153001
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 26, 2020, 06:30:54 PM
Then fucking say it! It's a message board not a peer review article
Thank you! Finally, someone admits it that a feeling or emotion they have is just that, a feeling or emotion. It really isn’t backed by anything.  But you and I are just arguing on a message board.

There are idiots burning this country down based on feelings that, when you really start looking into them, aren’t based on anything substantive.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 06:33:53 PM
Brewers and Reds cancel their game tonight. Which hey, at least that avoids another Reds loss
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 06:36:17 PM
Thank you! Finally, someone admits it that a feeling or emotion they have is just that, a feeling or emotion. It really isn’t backed by anything.  But you and I are just arguing on a message board.

There are idiots burning this country down based on feelings that, when you really start looking into them, aren’t based on anything substantive.
My "feeling" is based on working in criminal justice for 18 years, looking at statistics, police handbooks, statistics, and countless eyewitness reports. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 26, 2020, 06:37:52 PM
So head over to that thread, where we're trying to keep it light, and that way it makes it easier to leave this thread as the only thread to blow off political steam.
Steam...Anchor Steam - what do you know about steam beers/ales.Had a few many moons ago but forgot it's beckoning attributes.Ales fermented as Lagers,lagers fermented as ales.Considering current events these are what we should be reaching for
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 26, 2020, 06:41:23 PM
Sadly, our attorney general has lost the confidence of more than half of the population. I find zero comfort in anything he says. That is atypical.

Sadly, what is going on has turned into viewing things universally through a political lens. That is atypical. We are as far apart from a united country as we have been in my lifetime. That is more than sad, it's distressing.

Badge: your definition of terrorism (and I agree with it) is not rioting. It is the "calculated use" of violence, which rioting isn't. That doesn't make rioting ok, but it is fundamentally different. Now, instigators--those who plan and intend to incite rioting--they may be fairly accused of terrorism. Even in this situation, that is a very small group of people--and reports from non-politicized government agencies appear to view the problem as coming more from those opposed to the protesters than those who align with them. That's not universal, but in the aggregate.

As I said a few pages back, this whole thing sucks.

But I'll add to that: as long as our leaders fan the flames of division, it will get worse.

Not sure about that.  I think for at least half the population, our AG is one of our only hopes. Mine included.
It is not just the leaders, like the Wisconsin Governor who clearly fanned the flames intentionally- it is those with the microphone like athletes and celebrities.

really?  your going to forfeit a basketball game or hold a protest for a man with a rap sheet as long as my arm, who was being arrested for sexual assault +2 other crimes, who clearly resisted arrest on video and reached into his car to grab something?  That’s not divisive? That doesn’t send a horrible message to law abiding citizens everywhere? That doesn’t fan flames of racism?

it’s like their position is, it doesn’t matter what you do or how bad you are as a black person you are not entitled to be exemp from the regular laws of this country.  However it’s OK if half the population of Black people kills other Black people. Is that the message?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 26, 2020, 06:42:51 PM

If anyone cares, the rifle below is able to fire the same cartridge as the AR-15 at the same rate of fire with the same muzzle velocity etc.  It doesn't look nearly as scary though.  And yes, it can accept very large capacity magazines, just like an AR-15.

(https://i.imgur.com/iGOSusX.png)



The Germans may have started it, but Kalashnikov brought it to the masses.

The Federal Assault Weapons Ban was inartful, to say the least. The phrase assault weapon is rightfully mocked. The law did, however, limit the proliferation of many rifles that are the spiritual descendants of Kalashnikov's revolution--such ownership has exploded since the law expired. That may be good, it may be bad. Again, right or wrong, weapons ownership (both rifles and handguns) has changed dramatically in this country. The citizenry's arsenal is more powerful than it used to be, though fewer people, proportionately, are armed. 

I think this has made a difference in how the police approach their work. Frankly, I'd be surprised if it didn't.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 26, 2020, 06:43:48 PM
My "feeling" is based on working in criminal justice for 18 years, looking at statistics, police handbooks, statistics, and countless eyewitness reports.
Good to know. I’m sure you have colleagues with just as much experience, armed with the same information, who feel differently.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 06:50:26 PM
Good to know. I’m sure you have colleagues with just as much experience, armed with the same information, who feel differently.
Not sure I do. By definition, if you are ok with whatever the current rate of holding people at gunpoint, then you've accepted it. A lot of people just accept it - we don't have protests about it. Common is a subjective measure, though it certainly seems silly to call it rare. In any event, the number of things that our government does that are violent in the name of protecting our safety is extremely frequent.

Objectively, our incarceration rates are historically high. We lock a pretty large amount of purple in cages. Killing dogs, full body cavity searches, holding people at gunpoint - it's a lot.

The protests only come when the government kills or maims someone, and even then people want to both sides the issue. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 26, 2020, 06:53:06 PM
The forerunner was the Sturmgewehr 44.

https://www.militarytimes.com/off-duty/gearscout/tacticool/2019/12/12/tbt-the-real-story-behind-the-legendary-stg-44-sturmgewehr-rifle/ (https://www.militarytimes.com/off-duty/gearscout/tacticool/2019/12/12/tbt-the-real-story-behind-the-legendary-stg-44-sturmgewehr-rifle/)

Sturmgewehr literally means assault rifle.
Kalashnikov got some ideas there but the guts are different.The STGW 44 was incredible for it's time.Could put out twice the ordinance at half the weight of the Tommy.That's important when you're in the infantry
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 26, 2020, 06:58:13 PM
Not sure about that.  I think for at least half the population, our AG is one of our only hopes. Mine included.
It is not just the leaders, like the Wisconsin Governor who clearly fanned the flames intentionally- it is those with the microphone like athletes and celebrities.

really?  your going to forfeit a basketball game or hold a protest for a man with a rap sheet as long as my arm, who was being arrested for sexual assault +2 other crimes, who clearly resisted arrest on video and reached into his car to grab something?  That’s not divisive? That doesn’t send a horrible message to law abiding citizens everywhere? That doesn’t fan flames of racism?

it’s like their position is, it doesn’t matter what you do or how bad you are as a black person you are not entitled to be exemp from the regular laws of this country.  However it’s OK if half the population of Black people kills other Black people. Is that the message?
It's not a question of what you think: the numbers for the administration are clear, though less clear for the AG, specifically. The current president may be reelected, but far fewer than half of the respondents in any reputable poll approve of him and his administration. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?cid=rrpromo (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?cid=rrpromo)

As to these protesting basketball players, it's almost as if their life experiences, despite being financially quite successful, lead them to believe people like them aren't getting a fair shake.

As I noted (several pages) above, the complaint is that in 2020 it is unacceptable that systemic issues in the United States continue to result in worse life outcomes for black people than white people, and, more specifically, the outcomes for black people when interacting with the criminal justice system are consistently worse than for white people at every level: stops, arrests, charges, convictions, and sentencing. In other words, systemic racism continues to be a problem in this country and needs to be addressed. It's either systemic racism or black people are inherently inferior. It's not the latter.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 26, 2020, 07:03:21 PM
If shooting dogs HAS BECOME more common, it's a concern.  One might want to investigate any reasons for that TREND.  If it has stayed constant over time, perhaps adjusted for population etc., then it may be a concern, but perhaps it less of one because it is status quo.  One might wish to change status quo, but it's a different kind of issue.
Just google "puppycide" and you'll get a long [and depressing] education on the matter. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 26, 2020, 07:06:27 PM
Steam...Anchor Steam - what do you know about steam beers/ales.Had a few many moons ago but forgot it's beckoning attributes.Ales fermented as Lagers,lagers fermented as ales.Considering current events these are what we should be reaching for
I refer to a beer as whatever style it chooses to identify lol :57:

But seriously, it's the yeast. A steam beer uses a lager yeast that adapts well to ale temperatures and is thus considered a sort of "hybrid" style between lager and ale. Kolsch is a very similar "hybrid" beer, in that it is fermented at temps more appropriate to ales but then lagered. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 26, 2020, 07:12:06 PM
The Federal Assault Weapons Ban was inartful, to say the least. The phrase assault weapon is rightfully mocked. The law did, however, limit the proliferation of many rifles that are the spiritual descendants of Kalashnikov's revolution--such ownership has exploded since the law expired. That may be good, it may be bad. Again, right or wrong, weapons ownership (both rifles and handguns) has changed dramatically in this country. The citizenry's arsenal is more powerful than it used to be, though fewer people, proportionately, are armed.

I think this has made a difference in how the police approach their work. Frankly, I'd be surprised if it didn't.
A lot of people have tied the increasing militarization of police to the North Hollywood shootout of 1997. 

Which would be the perfect Jerry Tarkanian moment...

"The NCAA was police were so mad at Kentucky heavily armed white guys that they gave Cleveland State two more years of probation started shooting unarmed black men." 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 26, 2020, 07:19:50 PM
It's not a question of what you think: the numbers for the administration are clear, though less clear for the AG, specifically. The current president may be reelected, but far fewer than half of the respondents in any reputable poll approve of him and his administration. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?cid=rrpromo (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?cid=rrpromo)

As to these protesting basketball players, it's almost as if their life experiences, despite being financially quite successful, lead them to believe people like them aren't getting a fair shake.

As I noted (several pages) above, the complaint is that in 2020 it is unacceptable that systemic issues in the United States continue to result in worse life outcomes for black people than white people, and, more specifically, the outcomes for black people when interacting with the criminal justice system are consistently worse than for white people at every level: stops, arrests, charges, convictions, and sentencing. In other words, systemic racism continues to be a problem in this country and needs to be addressed. It's either systemic racism or black people are inherently inferior. It's not the latter.
Well at least you got part of this right.  The numbers on the AG are less clear, despite what you think, and claim.

If the complaint is- that person shot in Wisconsin the other day had a greater chance of being in that situation ( on substances, substantial history of crime and violence) because he is black- that may be a valid discussion.
Once there- what he specifically did to end up shot, was more in his control than anyone’s.  Nothing systemic about it. So the protesting athletes are basically saying he should not have been shot despite HIS actions that both got him into that situation, and his actions that escalated it to its tragic end.  At what point does he have to take responsibility? Before or after he committed his repeat offense of sexual assault? Before or after he disobeying the law enforcement directives to stand down and quit struggling? Before or after he blatantly disobeyed by going into the front seat of his car to get “something“? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 26, 2020, 07:30:36 PM
Looks like a bad shooting, but is obviously not a routine traffic stop.
I must be missing something.  What is not routine up to the point where the officer starts shooting?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 26, 2020, 07:35:28 PM
See, we're on different sides of the aisle, but we agree: we need to do more to address systemic racism.

There is--right now--an investigation into the shooting and whether it was justified. I'm not an expert on that, but as a layperson, it sure looks bad for the police. If he was saying threatening things--like he was going for his gun--then it's almost certainly justified. If he was saying, "F-this, I'm out of here" then it's feels a lot less justified--even if he was resisting lawful arrest. Resisting arrest is not a valid reason to impose the deadly force. Putting someone's life in immediate jeopardy is.

And getting back to what I said so many pages back, if he was threatening to go get a gun from his car why the heck didn't they do more to stop him, like maneuvering in front of him, for example?

The investigation will tell us more when it is complete.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 26, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
Hope they changed the engine out and not just the rod - 327 maybe
The owner was a junior at OU.  I imagine that he got it repaired the cheapest way possible.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 26, 2020, 07:36:58 PM
Not sure I do. By definition, if you are ok with whatever the current rate of holding people at gunpoint, then you've accepted it. A lot of people just accept it - we don't have protests about it. Common is a subjective measure, though it certainly seems silly to call it rare. In any event, the number of things that our government does that are violent in the name of protecting our safety is extremely frequent.

Objectively, our incarceration rates are historically high. We lock a pretty large amount of purple in cages. Killing dogs, full body cavity searches, holding people at gunpoint - it's a lot.

The protests only come when the government kills or maims someone, and even then people want to both sides the issue.
Whether or not I would “accept” a cop pulling a gun would be on a case by case basis.  How can I be ok or not ok with a rate I don’t know?  You kind of sound like you don’t accept how often they draw their weapons but then admit you have no idea how often that happens. How do you square that logically?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 26, 2020, 07:40:15 PM
I refer to a beer as whatever style it chooses to identify lol :57:

But seriously, it's the yeast. A steam beer uses a lager yeast that adapts well to ale temperatures and is thus considered a sort of "hybrid" style between lager and ale. Kolsch is a very similar "hybrid" beer, in that it is fermented at temps more appropriate to ales but then lagered.

Ya I just recently had Joe Thomas Kolsch from Great Lakes and read the label And I noticed that.Amazing some cave dwelling zymurgist knew when to add/remove certain yeasts/hops/malts and and at varying temeratures.These are the true trail blazers in research & inventive prowess
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 26, 2020, 07:43:16 PM
Trump just announced hes sending in law enforcement to stop the rioting so I guess the Governor refuses to do so
That's not something to celebrate if you value the Constitution and federalism.
AND it lets the governor off the hook.  He won't suffer the full consequences of his inaction.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 26, 2020, 07:50:11 PM
Whether or not I would “accept” a cop pulling a gun would be on a case by case basis.  How can I be ok or not ok with a rate I don’t know?  You kind of sound like you don’t accept how often they draw their weapons but then admit you have no idea how often that happens. How do you square that logically?
Would it be wrong to say that steroid use for baseball in the 90's was common and accepted? I think we would certainly say that now, even though at the time we had very little hard evidence beyond anecdotes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 26, 2020, 08:02:22 PM
A very low percentage of murders are committed with rifles of all kinds, for obvious reasons.
A fact that flies right past some gun-control advocates.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 26, 2020, 08:08:27 PM

Once there- what he specifically did to end up shot, was more in his control than anyone’s.  Nothing systemic about it. 
The fact that you don't realize that the former is due to the latter speaks volumes.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 26, 2020, 08:08:57 PM
Just google "puppycide" and you'll get a long [and depressing] education on the matter.
Because I'm persnickety, that just means more people write about it and that writing is closer at hand. 

Purely spitballing, I wonder if there's more or less dog shooting. We certainly care more about our pets now than historically. And we have more ability to document the shooting of dogs. 

Now of course, generally don't shoot dogs. Or don't be like that one dipshit LEO who tried to shoot the dog and shot someone who was lying prone on the ground. Dipshit. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 26, 2020, 08:11:04 PM
Well, I'm a gun control person (in case that wasn't already obvious), and semi-automatic long guns with high capacity magazines have been used in approximately 25% of the mass shootings in the last 20 years, and account for approximately 40% of deaths and nearly 70% of injuries from all mass shootings over that same time period. So while they are less-commonly used tools, they are involved in a disproportionate number of injuries and deaths. It's not hard to figure out why.

But just because I think more, reasonable regulation of semi-automatic long guns that accept high capacity magazines would be appropriate, doesn't mean I don't recognize that hand guns are a bigger problem, and also require more, reasonable regulation. 

:)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 26, 2020, 08:18:20 PM
Steam...Anchor Steam - what do you know about steam beers/ales.Had a few many moons ago but forgot it's beckoning attributes.Ales fermented as Lagers,lagers fermented as ales.Considering current events these are what we should be reaching for
A friend in college brewed one of those once. 

He declared he was all about "Steam ales and females," which was enjoyable because he was a super mild-mannered and friendly guy. Last I saw him he had a good job in Badge's old city and was dating a delightfully pretty young lady. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 26, 2020, 08:28:22 PM
Well, I'm a gun control person (in case that wasn't already obvious), and semi-automatic long guns with high capacity magazines have been used in approximately 25% of the mass shootings in the last 20 years, and account for approximately 40% of deaths and nearly 70% of injuries from all mass shootings over that same time period. So while they are less-commonly used tools, they are involved in a disproportionate number of injuries and deaths. It's not hard to figure out why.

But just because I think more, reasonable regulation of semi-automatic long guns that accept high capacity magazines would be appropriate, doesn't mean I don't recognize that hand guns are a bigger problem, and also require more, reasonable regulation.

:)
The hole in your argument is that mass shootings account for a minuscule percentage of firearms deaths.
There are also some holes in the methodology in determining what are mass shootings and what are not.  School shootings data have the same problem.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 26, 2020, 08:53:32 PM
Would it be wrong to say that steroid use for baseball in the 90's was common and accepted? I think we would certainly say that now, even though at the time we had very little hard evidence beyond anecdotes.
Honestly? Yeah, I still have a problem with “common” when it comes to steroid use. What is common? 5 percent, 20, 50? We have some high profile names and broken records that now put a bad taste in everyone’s mouth. Back then, they were celebrated.

People will also extrapolate things they have personal knowledge of and think it applies to the rest of the world.  I’ve heard ball players say everybody was doing steroids back then. Bullshit. No they weren’t.  My cousin had a drug problem years ago and assured her dad “everybody did it.”  In her small world with her group of friends that was true.  In my small world with my group of friends no one did drugs.

The other problem with your analogy is using steroids was 100 percent against the rules. There was no subjectivity to it. If you did it you were breaking a rule. A cop pulling a gun in a situation isn’t necessarily wrong.  You and I could view the same scenario play out and you might think it didn’t require a weapon and I might think it did. 


You are certainly entitled to believe cops draw their weapons too much but you basically have zero evidence to back that up.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 09:02:47 PM
Semiautomatic rifles are pretty common things today.  Ban them all?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 26, 2020, 09:32:42 PM
Gun-control laws and proposals have often been based on scare tactics over weapons that are statistically not the problem.

Remember the "Saturday-night special" ban?  All it did is made it harder for poor people to buy weapons to defend themselves.  The vast majority of gun criminals were then and still are using good-quality handguns, mostly revolvers then, mostly semi-automatics now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 26, 2020, 09:38:09 PM
The fact that you don't realize that the former is due to the latter speaks volumes. 
Fact is, not only do I, but that was part of my point.
Being that is what you took from tat post, speaks volumes.
and as you like to do- you didn’t address the main question: at what point do people of any color take personal responsibility?

is every child that had a horrible childhood allowed to grow and turn into a serial killer?

is every woman that’s battered by a man allowed to shoot him?

At what point do you recognize that a criminal, regardless of root causes, who is being violent bear some responsibility for what happens to them at that point?

Are you saying that systemic racism gives people a free pass? Because trust me when I tell you that’s what it sounds like to a lot of people.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 26, 2020, 10:44:43 PM
HB:

I'm not going to presume to speak for OAM, but, in response to your questions, here are my $.02.

is every child that had a horrible childhood allowed to grow and turn into a serial killer?

No, but some do, and therefore we have a vested interest in children not having to live horrible lives.

is every woman that’s battered by a man allowed to shoot him?

No, but considering the circumstances, it might be a defense at a murder trial.

At what point do you recognize that a criminal, regardless of root causes, who is being violent bear some responsibility for what happens to them at that point?

We all bear primary responsibility for our actions, including those of us who suffer from those "root causes."  But we should recognize that it's easier to see that when we were raised in reasonably stable family environments, when we didn't have to wonder if mama was going to have any food to fix for dinner, and when we saw a justice system that seemed to deal reasonably with people like us.

Are you saying that systemic racism gives people a free pass? Because trust me when I tell you that’s what it sounds like to a lot of people.


No free passes.  But we need to fix the institutional problems that make things worse than they need to be for poor people in general, people of color in general, and poor people of color in particular.

I'm an 18th-century liberal, which made me a late-20th-century conservative.  What it makes me in the 21st century, I don't know, since the Trumpists seem to have stolen the "c" word from people like me.

I believe that free markets beat government economic controls 99 and 44/100ths percent of the time.  I believe that the free enterprise system has lifted far more people out of poverty than government anti-poverty programs have.  (Just look at poverty rates since LBJ's War on Poverty began.)  But it's been 155 years since slavery was abolished, and black people have not been treated the same as white people by the federal government in all that time.  They've either been treated like the dirt beneath our feet or as children who have to be looked after by paternalistic Uncle Sugar, or both at the same time.  And it hasn't been greatly better even for whites among the working poor.

I think that every sensible person wants to see everybody have the road open for him or her to pursue happiness, not have the federal government (or state governments either) dictate winners and losers from birth.

We're not supposed to have a ruling class born booted and spurred, nor are we supposed to have a servile class born to a life of drudge-labor or government welfare programs.

Finally, people born into the servile/welfare class don't grow up with the same trust in the law and its enforcement officers that I did and I presume you did.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2020, 10:50:03 PM
Yup.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 26, 2020, 11:29:28 PM
HB:

I'm not going to presume to speak for OAM, but, in response to your questions, here are my $.02.

is every child that had a horrible childhood allowed to grow and turn into a serial killer?

No, but some do, and therefore we have a vested interest in children not having to live horrible lives.

is every woman that’s battered by a man allowed to shoot him?

No, but considering the circumstances, it might be a defense at a murder trial.

At what point do you recognize that a criminal, regardless of root causes, who is being violent bear some responsibility for what happens to them at that point?

We all bear primary responsibility for our actions, including those of us who suffer from those "root causes."  But we should recognize that it's easier to see that when we were raised in reasonably stable family environments, when we didn't have to wonder if mama was going to have any food to fix for dinner, and when we saw a justice system that seemed to deal reasonably with people like us.

Are you saying that systemic racism gives people a free pass? Because trust me when I tell you that’s what it sounds like to a lot of people.


No free passes.  But we need to fix the institutional problems that make things worse than they need to be for poor people in general, people of color in general, and poor people of color in particular.

I'm an 18th-century liberal, which made me a late-20th-century conservative.  What it makes me in the 21st century, I don't know, since the Trumpists seem to have stolen the "c" word from people like me.

I believe that free markets beat government economic controls 99 and 44/100ths percent of the time.  I believe that the free enterprise system has lifted far more people out of poverty than government anti-poverty programs have.  (Just look at poverty rates since LBJ's War on Poverty began.)  But it's been 155 years since slavery was abolished, and black people have not been treated the same as white people by the federal government in all that time.  They've either been treated like the dirt beneath our feet or as children who have to be looked after by paternalistic Uncle Sugar, or both at the same time.  And it hasn't been greatly better even for whites among the working poor.

I think that every sensible person wants to see everybody have the road open for him or her to pursue happiness, not have the federal government (or state governments either) dictate winners and losers from birth.

We're not supposed to have a ruling class born booted and spurred, nor are we supposed to have a servile class born to a life of drudge-labor or government welfare programs.

Finally, people born into the servile/welfare class don't grow up with the same trust in the law and its enforcement officers that I did and I presume you did.
Yes. That’s all a given

Now - back to the issue I raised, which is the basis for the ignition in Kenosha. 

where is the personal responsibility?  Do we just turn the other cheek and say well because the perpetrator is blackl, he had systemic racism to deal with which made him or at least contributed to him being a historically violent criminal and in the situation we have to take that into account and allow him to be outside of the law? 

If he was white, and being arrested for sexual assault, and resisted arrest and went for something in the front seat of his car it’s OK for the police to use force. But because he is black, and systemic racism put him in the situation, we need to take that into consideration in life and death situations so the police need to not use force or even better don’t even try to arrest him?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 26, 2020, 11:31:22 PM
Fact is, not only do I, but that was part of my point.
Being that is what you took from tat post, speaks volumes.
and as you like to do- you didn’t address the main question: at what point do people of any color take personal responsibility?

is every child that had a horrible childhood allowed to grow and turn into a serial killer?

is every woman that’s battered by a man allowed to shoot him?

At what point do you recognize that a criminal, regardless of root causes, who is being violent bear some responsibility for what happens to them at that point?

Are you saying that systemic racism gives people a free pass? Because trust me when I tell you that’s what it sounds like to a lot of people.
It's not about a free pass or allowing them to do or act a certain way - it's acknowledging that the current system yields these INEVITABILITIES.  And that's why the system needs changing, so that it allows those people to have more of a choice.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 26, 2020, 11:32:54 PM
It's not about a free pass or allowing them to do or act a certain way - it's acknowledging that the current system yields these INEVITABILITIES.  And that's why the system needs changing, so that it allows those people to have more of a choice. 
Agreed. 

so when this does happen, like it just did how do we handle it?   While we’re trying to fix the systemic racism that I acknowledge absolutely exists.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 26, 2020, 11:33:56 PM
 But because he is black, and systemic racism put him in the situation, we need to take that into consideration in life and death situations so the police need to not use force or even better don’t even try to arrest him?
You're not worth having this discussion with. 
Literally NO ONE is suggesting the cops not use force, nor not try to arrest him.  

I'm embarrassed for you.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 26, 2020, 11:40:29 PM
You're not worth having this discussion with. 
Literally NO ONE is suggesting the cops not use force, nor not try to arrest him. 

I'm embarrassed for you.
You should be embarrassed for yourself.  And yes- that’s IS what is being suggested or inferred, by you and many others.  

you keep trying to stand ( hide) behind systemic- that does not provide any clarity in an actual arrest of a person who is wanted on 3 separate charges- and is being violent.  

If you can’t answer that simple question, and clearly you can’t, go ahead and take your marbles and go home like you always do
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 26, 2020, 11:45:06 PM
You're not worth having this discussion with. 
Literally NO ONE is suggesting the cops not use force, nor not try to arrest him. 

I'm embarrassed for you.
So how should we handle the looting going on Minneapolis tonight. Apparently triggered by the suicide of a man wanted for murder as police were closing in?

Stay clear and allow them to destroy more lives and businesses- because the looters were conditioned to do this due to systemic something?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 26, 2020, 11:58:43 PM
You won't accept any explanation.  You wouldn't accept a football player kneeling.  So now you get what you're seeing now. 

Enjoy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 26, 2020, 11:59:45 PM
You won't accept any explanation.  You wouldn't accept a football player kneeling.  So now you get what you're seeing now.

Enjoy.
I never had a problem with a football player kneeling. You’re getting your ghosts mixed up in your head
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 27, 2020, 03:01:54 AM
Oh hey also there's a giant hurricane
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 05:00:34 AM
What sorts of things could we be doing differently to reduce "systematic racism"?

Might a lot of this be the difference between growing up poor and growing up middle class?  Or growing up with father and mother?  Or something like that?

I read some study along time ago noting that poorer people at that time were far more likely to have serious lead exposure than wealthier folks, from gasoline and from paint.  It suggested there had been a measurable increase in IQ after lead paint was abated.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 05:19:30 AM
https://www.ajc.com/news/crime/atlanta-police-on-alert-after-night-of-destructive-protests/SP7XHGYZMVEWBG7DGSTRQOSYBE/ (https://www.ajc.com/news/crime/atlanta-police-on-alert-after-night-of-destructive-protests/SP7XHGYZMVEWBG7DGSTRQOSYBE/)

A fairly smallish group gathered here with the express intent to riot and damage stuff.  It appears the police headed them off successfully.  I distinguish between folks trying to protest and folks seeking advantage to riot/loot/burn/destroy obviously.

I also think Wisconsin should come forth now with any additional details about the shooting, I saw one report that the man was reaching for a knife in his car, but there was no gun.  If true, that obviously changes the picture.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 05:25:35 AM
A thing that puzzles me, in both Atlanta and Kenosha, the police apparently had the suspect on the ground attempting to detain him, and the suspect not only got on his feet, in both cases he walked away from the police, who outnumbered him.  Had they had success in restraining either initially, there would have been no subsequent shooting.

I know "back in the day", a suspect who resisted arrest would get clobbered with a billy club, which generally takes the enthusiasm out of the victim.  Are those now banned?  

Are the police insufficiently trained in "hand to hand"?  Keeping your knee on a suspect's head for 9 minutes is obviously ridiculous (anyway I can see it).  In all three cases, initially restraining the victim successfully and properly eliminated the shooting, or the "need" for a knee on the guy's head.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 27, 2020, 07:41:23 AM
Kenosha Sheriff detailing the American Way of criminal justice

https://twitter.com/7im/status/1298770531278131201?s=20
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 07:49:24 AM
Do you view his comments as being racist?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 27, 2020, 07:53:15 AM
Do you view his comments as being racist?
Would I think he's thinking about mostly black people as those who need to be "locked away forever" - yes.  But regardless, his comments adequately describe the approach to criminal justice our country has taken the last 50 years or so, which is to be extremely cruel, and especially extremely cruel to black people.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 07:58:26 AM
What makes you think he is referring mostly to black people?  He uses the term "they" repeatedly.  Do you think black people are more apt to be repeat offenders and fathers of multiple children?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 27, 2020, 08:06:07 AM
What makes you think he is referring mostly to black people?  
Mostly the history of the country and attitudes of law enforcement towards black people in general
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 08:08:40 AM
These attitudes of law enforcement people "in general", on what do you base your opinion?  Does this apply to black LEOs as well as white?

I sometimes think folks develop an opinion and then stick to it regardless of actual information to the contrary.  Or they have no basis for said opinion.  It's just a notion.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 08:12:17 AM
Mostly the history of the country and attitudes of law enforcement towards black people in general
So, you don't base your opinion on what he actually said, just your inherent bias against LEOs based on "history" etc.

Got it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 27, 2020, 08:12:29 AM
These attitudes of law enforcement people "in general", on what do you base your opinion?  Does this apply to black LEOs as well as white?

I sometimes think folks develop an opinion and then stick to it regardless of actual information to the contrary.  Or they have no basis for said opinion.  It's just a notion.


It can - there is a popular theme among law enforcement that there are "criminals" and there is "us" and if they just catch all the criminals and lock them up and throw away the key then the "us" will be in great shape.  It hasn't really worked out that way, but people cling to the notion, nevertheless. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 27, 2020, 08:13:22 AM
So, you don't base your opinion on what he actually said, just your inherent bias against LEOs based on "history" etc.

Got it.
I know there are some who don't feel history is important, or relevant, but I've come to figure it does.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 27, 2020, 08:21:54 AM
More history

https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Records/Article/CS502 (https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Records/Article/CS502)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 08:22:56 AM
Violent crime rates are down significantly since 1993 or so, significantly, maybe due to Biden's crime bill.

So, I'd opine perhaps history shows it has worked out that way.

My dad, incidentally, worked with prison populations to set up educational programs for them.  I was shocked at about age 10 or so to learn recidivism rates were over 70%.  He believed that very few prisoners really took advantage of the opportunities provided to develop a skill or get a GED.

His job also changed his views on race significantly to the point I avoided the topic like the plague around him.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 27, 2020, 08:28:30 AM
In several industrialized countries the beat police don't carry firearms at all. I wish we could do that here, but with our elevated levels of firearms ownership, I don't know that police officers could do their jobs safely without their own firearms.

That sucks, too.

I don't know if it's more or less common that police draw their handguns on people, but I believe (without knowing or any specific evidence) that we have militarized our police more than in the past. I also believe there have been good reasons for much of that change--for instance most police wear body armor now. That didn't happen by accident.

I'm not sure if we've discussed this here before, but Kalashnikov's rifle revolutionized individual firearms, which, particularly following the expiration of the hideously named "Federal Assault Weapons Ban, has revolutionized the weaponry the common U.S. citizen (who chooses to) carries. Yes, bad guys could always get guns, and what good mob movie doesn't include Tommy guns (fully automatics were't illegal until 1934)? Nonetheless, the individual weapon of choice has changed and is much more powerful now than it used to be. I don't know the specifics, and it isn't limited to a change in rifle ownership--a similar change has occurred in handguns. I suspect (again, without anything more than belief) that police are more fearful now of the threat posed by individual gun owners than in decades past. Which is curious, because although the number of firearms sold has gone up, the number of firearms owners has declined significantly.
No, the power of the weapons produced now are no more powerful than they were previously.

As I believe you are referring to the most common gun sold in this country for the past few years, the AR-15, you would do well to educate yourself on the matter. The most common AR-15 models are chambered in either 5.56mm or .223 caliber. An AR-15 chambered in 5.56mm is capable of also shooting .223 caliber rounds. 

Both of those rounds are slightly larger than a .22 caliber round that is one of the smaller rounds available to the consumer. However, they do have a larger amount of gun powder than a .22 and do produce a higher muzzle velocity. Those rounds have been available for some time and have not changed much over the years to increase the power of the round. 

During the time of the Revolutionary War and subsequent, the drafting of the Bill of Rights in which the 2nd Amendment was include, the rifles at the time were much more powerful. They were generally caliber'd .50 caliber and larger. The damage done to the human body by a .50 caliber compared to a .556 or .223 was far greater and usually fatal. 

Here is a decent chart showing different rounds available now, and shows them in comparison to one another. It helps to somewhat explain the differences. 

(https://i.imgur.com/irbjyGc.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 27, 2020, 08:30:10 AM
Violent crime rates are down significantly since 1993 or so, significantly, maybe due to Biden's crime bill.

So, I'd opine perhaps history shows it has worked out that way.

My dad, incidentally, worked with prison populations to set up educational programs for them.  I was shocked at about age 10 or so to learn recidivism rates were over 70%.  He believed that very few prisoners really took advantage of the opportunities provided to develop a skill or get a GED.

His job also changed his views on race significantly to the point I avoided the topic like the plague around him.
Crime has dropped across much of the world since 1993, sort of an interesting phenomenon with no clear answer.  My personal opinion is it's due to the internet, but don't go asking for tons of statistical support on that.

I also sympathize with your dad, and with cops.  The history of segregation and poverty and criminal justice laws has created a system where black people are mostly poor, mostly in one location, and heavily policed.  It doesn't create a good environment for success.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 08:35:09 AM
I'm pretty sure sfbadger is familiar with firearms and their potencies, FYI.

I think it also true that "back in the day", LEOs carried .38 Specials or even .32 caliber pistols.  I was alive when the SP went to the .357 as they needed better penetration capability.  Then they went to 9 mm semi-auto, which is an upgrade in magazine size.  Some/many have gone to 10 mm.  So, I think the standard firepower of the police side arm has gone up over time.

And obviously rate of fire of common guns has gone WAY up since 1787.

The big shift more recently has been from revolvers to mag fed semiauto handguns.  You go from 5 or 6 rounds on hand to 15 or 17 or more, and a pretty quick recharge.

The same shift happened when we went from the 1903 Springfield rifle to the M1 Garand, more rate of fire and more magazine capacity.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 27, 2020, 08:36:32 AM
Not sure I do. By definition, if you are ok with whatever the current rate of holding people at gunpoint, then you've accepted it. A lot of people just accept it - we don't have protests about it. Common is a subjective measure, though it certainly seems silly to call it rare. In any event, the number of things that our government does that are violent in the name of protecting our safety is extremely frequent.

Objectively, our incarceration rates are historically high. We lock a pretty large amount of purple in cages. Killing dogs, full body cavity searches, holding people at gunpoint - it's a lot.

The protests only come when the government kills or maims someone, and even then people want to both sides the issue.
I know I am late the discussion, but you are saying that the number of people being held at gunpoint by police is increasing. That may or may not be true, but just for the sake of argument, let's accept it as fact. 

So the question then becomes, why? Are police more trigger happy today than they were previously? Or perhaps, the rate of violence perpetrated by those being held at gunpoint has increased significantly during this time. Perhaps if the police were not in constant danger from those people that they are frequently coming into contact with, they may not be so quick to pull a gun to protect themselves. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 08:37:09 AM
The drop in violent crime correlates with an increase in firearms in the US.

Correlation, not causation.  As sfbadger notes, the percentage of HHs with a firearms continues to slide, perhaps with a bump up of late.

When your victims MAY be armed, you might be more cautious about robbing them on the street.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 08:41:24 AM
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2019/12/06/rasheen-mcclain-funeral-detroit-police/4356181002/ (https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2019/12/06/rasheen-mcclain-funeral-detroit-police/4356181002/)

Black man shot and killed in police involved incident, no protests or riots happened as a result.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 27, 2020, 08:49:00 AM
The drop in violent crime correlates with an increase in firearms in the US.

Correlation, not causation.  As sfbadger notes, the percentage of HHs with a firearms continues to slide, perhaps with a bump up of late.

When your victims MAY be armed, you might be more cautious about robbing them on the street.
Maybe, though crime in Europe has dropped faster than in the U.S. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 27, 2020, 08:58:11 AM
I'm pretty sure sfbadger is familiar with firearms and their potencies, FYI.

I think it also true that "back in the day", LEOs carried .38 Specials or even .32 caliber pistols.  I was alive when the SP went to the .357 as they needed better penetration capability.  Then they went to 9 mm semi-auto, which is an upgrade in magazine size.  Some/many have gone to 10 mm.  So, I think the standard firepower of the police side arm has gone up over time.

And obviously rate of fire of common guns has gone WAY up since 1787.

The big shift more recently has been from revolvers to mag fed semiauto handguns.  You go from 5 or 6 rounds on hand to 15 or 17 or more, and a pretty quick recharge.

The same shift happened when we went from the 1903 Springfield rifle to the M1 Garand, more rate of fire and more magazine capacity.
I was responding to his specific claim that guns are more powerful now and addressing the notion that the AR-15 is one of those. By industry standards, the AR-15 is one of the less powerful weapons compared to other popular calibers. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 27, 2020, 09:07:46 AM
Kenosha Sheriff detailing the American Way of criminal justice

https://twitter.com/7im/status/1298770531278131201?s=20
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Looters assault an older business owner trying to defend his business in Kenosha, Wisconsin on August 24, 2020. <a href="https://t.co/LdlLnOpvfJ">pic.twitter.com/LdlLnOpvfJ</a></p>&mdash; After Action Report (@after_theaction) <a href="https://twitter.com/after_theaction/status/1298210964018429952?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 25, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 09:12:13 AM
I was responding to his specific claim that guns are more powerful now and addressing the notion that the AR-15 is one of those. By industry standards, the AR-15 is one of the less powerful weapons compared to other popular calibers.
I didn't read his claim that way.  And I know he is familiar with weapons.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 09:13:41 AM
It is interesting, to me, how some judge an individual based on things like history and the color of his skin and perhaps his position in law enforcement.

That would be classic prejudice and bias, forming an opinion about an individual based on  the general.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 27, 2020, 09:15:00 AM
It is interesting, to me, how some judge an individual based on things like history and the color of his skin and perhaps his position in law enforcement.

That would be classic prejudice and bias, forming an opinion about an individual based on  the general.
What's interesting about it? To me, it's the most banal thing in the world.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 27, 2020, 09:15:42 AM
Kenosha Sheriff detailing the American Way of criminal justice

https://twitter.com/7im/status/1298770531278131201?s=20
I used to question this approach.  He is starting to make sense to me with each passing day.

i won’t embed/attach it, but just watched ANOTHER Twitter video of an old man, business owner, tryin to protect his business in Kenosha last night as the rioters were trying to set it on fire.  They broke his jaw in 2 places with a concrete filled bottle.  71 years old.  

not sure how or why you. Ontinue to defend this violence, but that is what you are doing.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 09:18:31 AM
This is from wiki:

Germany[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Crime_drop&action=edit&section=8)]
According to German police statistics on crime, cases overall peaked in 1993. Since then, they dropped by 20% from 8,336 per 100,000 inhabitants to 6,710 in 2018. (All rates for Germany mentioned here include attempts.) Criminal offenses against life declined by 40% from 6.3 in 1993 to 3.7 in 2012 but rose again to 3.9 in 2018. Theft dropped by 54% from 5,126 cases in 1993 to 2,338 in 2018. The statistical group violent crime did not peak in 1993 but in 2007 with 264.7 cases per 100,000. Until 2018 they dropped by 15% to 223.9.[15] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_drop#cite_note-pks-zeitreihe-15)
United States[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Crime_drop&action=edit&section=9)]
In the United States, for example, violent crime rates have fallen by over 50% in many major U.S. cities since these rates peaked in the early 1990s, often referred to as the "Great Crime Decline".[16] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_drop#cite_note-16)[17] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_drop#cite_note-17) In New York City (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City), these rates had dropped by 75% from the early 1990s to 2010.[18] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_drop#cite_note-18) In the United States, a second decline in the crime rate was also observed, with homicide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicide) rates declining first from 1994 to 2002, and then again from 2007 to 2011.[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_drop#cite_note-19) The crime rate in Los Angeles decreased from 1993 onward, including e.g. a decrease in the crime rate of 10% during the first six months of 1998.[20] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_drop#cite_note-20)


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 27, 2020, 09:18:40 AM
I used to question this approach.  He is starting to make sense to me with each passing day.

i won’t embed/attach it, but just watched ANOTHER Twitter video of an old man, business owner, tryin to protect his business in Kenosha last night as the rioters were trying to set it on fire.  They broke his jaw in 2 places with a concrete filled bottle.  71 years old. 

not sure how or why you. Ontinue to defend this violence, but that is what you are doing. 
?? What he advocates is by definition violence, and you are saying it's sounding good to you. So how am I the one defending violence?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 09:19:43 AM
What's interesting about it? To me, it's the most banal thing in the world.
You think prejudice and bias are banal?

They are things I make a conscious effort to avoid, personally.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 27, 2020, 09:22:03 AM
You think prejudice and bias are banal?

They are things I make a conscious effort to avoid, personally.
It's fine to try and avoid bias and prejudice, but you do it still, and so does everyone else who has ever breathed.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 09:24:22 AM
I don't consider either banal.  And I try and avoid both.  I suppose many do consider any white LEO to be a racist based on "history" etc.

https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/george-floyd/new-court-docs-say-george-floyd-had-fatal-level-of-fentanyl-in-his-system/89-ed69d09d-a9ec-481c-90fe-7acd4ead3d04 (https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/george-floyd/new-court-docs-say-george-floyd-had-fatal-level-of-fentanyl-in-his-system/89-ed69d09d-a9ec-481c-90fe-7acd4ead3d04)

Possibly interesting development in the Floyd case which could impact any trial of the police involved.  The image of the knee on the neck is hard to dispel obviously.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 27, 2020, 09:39:05 AM
?? What he advocates is by definition violence, and you are saying it's sounding good to you. So how am I the one defending violence?
Arresting and locking violent criminals is violence?  My goodness is that twisted.

it is really simple Sam.  Lawful people have the right to defend themselves and their loved ones and property against those who are trying to hurt them.  That’s the side I am on.

you are on the side of those who want to hurt them.  To me, that makes you pro- violence.     That’s ok.  I won’t bother you for that twisted, sick opinion.   That is, until you come after me.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 09:44:26 AM
If these shooting victims were properly restrained by police initially, none of them die.  (Floyd may have died later of an OD.)

Maybe police need better hand to hand training.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 27, 2020, 10:03:05 AM
If these shooting victims were properly restrained by police initially, none of them die.  (Floyd may have died later of an OD.)

Maybe police need better hand to hand training.
I agree with this. In both instances in ATL and Kenosha multiple cops couldn’t restrain one guy and had to resort to using their weapons.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 27, 2020, 10:04:50 AM
I agree with this. In both instances in ATL and Kenosha multiple cops couldn’t restrain one guy and had to resort to using their weapons.
And in both cases, no shots were fired until the guy that broke restraint, became a threat to the LEO's lives. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 10:05:41 AM
Well, that's my point, I wonder if the police need better training, MCMAP or something.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 27, 2020, 10:08:39 AM
a pistol whipping or billy club might have been more effective than the taser
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 10:12:23 AM
It might be viewed as ironic that "we" take away their billy club, take away the choke hold, give them Tasers which are problematic, and their next level of force is whatever training they received and then the gun.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 27, 2020, 10:14:23 AM
But in both cases, the shooting of the suspect appears to be motivated by a fear for their lives by the LEO and not due to "systemic racism". It is only made an issue of race by those with an agenda.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 27, 2020, 10:17:06 AM
Arresting and locking violent criminals is violence?  My goodness is that twisted.

it is really simple Sam.  Lawful people have the right to defend themselves and their loved ones and property against those who are trying to hurt them.  That’s the side I am on.

you are on the side of those who want to hurt them.  To me, that makes you pro- violence.    That’s ok.  I won’t bother you for that twisted, sick opinion.  That is, until you come after me. 
Yes. Locking someone up and throwing away the key is violent. If you want to justify it, justify it. But don't change the meaning of words to escape responsibility. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 10:23:48 AM
Yes. Locking someone up and throwing away the key is violent. If you want to justify it, justify it. But don't change the meaning of words to escape responsibility.

I think of the term "violent" differently, I suppose.

This treatment might be heinous, unethical, wrong, tragic, whatever, but it's not violent.

vi·o·lent
/ˈvī(ə)lənt/
 (https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk02nuWXT5DZiejo4UJaGwlA7fOsMVQ:1598538190793&q=how+to+pronounce+violent&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOMIfcRoyS3w8sc9YSmDSWtOXmPU4uINKMrPK81LzkwsyczPExLmYglJLcoV4pbi5GIvy8zPSc0rsWJRYkrN41nEKpGRX65Qkq9QANSSD9STqgBVAQAgh_uRWQAAAA&pron_lang=en&pron_country=us&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjgrJboyrvrAhVRh-AKHTaYDbgQ3eEDMAB6BAgFEAg)Learn to pronounce
 (https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk02nuWXT5DZiejo4UJaGwlA7fOsMVQ:1598538190793&q=how+to+pronounce+violent&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOMIfcRoyS3w8sc9YSmDSWtOXmPU4uINKMrPK81LzkwsyczPExLmYglJLcoV4pbi5GIvy8zPSc0rsWJRYkrN41nEKpGRX65Qkq9QANSSD9STqgBVAQAgh_uRWQAAAA&pron_lang=en&pron_country=us&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjgrJboyrvrAhVRh-AKHTaYDbgQ3eEDMAB6BAgFEAg)


adjective


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 27, 2020, 10:26:25 AM
I think of the term "violent" differently, I suppose.

This treatment might be heinous, unethical, wrong, tragic, whatever, but it's not violent.

vi·o·lent
/ˈvī(ə)lənt/
 (https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk02nuWXT5DZiejo4UJaGwlA7fOsMVQ:1598538190793&q=how+to+pronounce+violent&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOMIfcRoyS3w8sc9YSmDSWtOXmPU4uINKMrPK81LzkwsyczPExLmYglJLcoV4pbi5GIvy8zPSc0rsWJRYkrN41nEKpGRX65Qkq9QANSSD9STqgBVAQAgh_uRWQAAAA&pron_lang=en&pron_country=us&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjgrJboyrvrAhVRh-AKHTaYDbgQ3eEDMAB6BAgFEAg)Learn to pronounce
 (https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk02nuWXT5DZiejo4UJaGwlA7fOsMVQ:1598538190793&q=how+to+pronounce+violent&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOMIfcRoyS3w8sc9YSmDSWtOXmPU4uINKMrPK81LzkwsyczPExLmYglJLcoV4pbi5GIvy8zPSc0rsWJRYkrN41nEKpGRX65Qkq9QANSSD9STqgBVAQAgh_uRWQAAAA&pron_lang=en&pron_country=us&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjgrJboyrvrAhVRh-AKHTaYDbgQ3eEDMAB6BAgFEAg)


adjective

  • using or involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.


Fairly certain locking someone in a cage fits the definition. Try locking some random woman in your basement and see if people think it's violent.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 27, 2020, 10:31:14 AM
It's fine to try and avoid bias and prejudice, but you do it still, and so does everyone else who has ever breathed.
Some of the most racist speech I see on TV comes from Black people

Hell in some universities there even a move to have all black dorms

Look on the channel guide on your cable system and you'll see a channel named BET which is Black Entertainment Television

what if there was a WET no way that would be allowed and it shouldnt be

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 27, 2020, 10:34:42 AM
Fairly certain locking someone in a cage fits the definition. Try locking some random woman in your basement and see if people think it's violent.
thats just plain bull dookey MS
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 27, 2020, 10:35:10 AM
Fairly certain locking someone in a cage fits the definition. Try locking some random woman in your basement and see if people think it's violent.
wouldn't have to be a random woman, could be a wife or an ex-wife or an ex-GF
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 27, 2020, 10:37:40 AM
wouldn't have to be a random woman, could be a wife or an ex-wife or an ex-GF
hey now youre getting into my personal life watch it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 27, 2020, 10:38:00 AM
thats just plain bull dookey MS
I mean come on. Locking people on cages is violent. Shooting them is violent. Handcuffing them is violent. Putting a gun at them is violent. We can excuse or justify violence, but framing anything the government does as non-violent just leads to justifying a lot of stuff that probably can't be justified. It's certainly contributed to our huge prison population.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 10:41:23 AM
I am pretty sure most English speaking people would disagree with your characterization of the term "violent" as comprising locking someone up.

But, whatever.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 27, 2020, 10:42:19 AM
I mean come on. Locking people on cages is violent. Shooting them is violent. Handcuffing them is violent. Putting a gun at them is violent. We can excuse or justify violence, but framing anything the government does as non-violent just leads to justifying a lot of stuff that probably can't be justified. It's certainly contributed to our huge prison population.
MS you were born too late
You should have been around in the 60s with all the beautiful people
you'd fit right in
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 27, 2020, 10:43:37 AM
I am pretty sure most English speaking people would disagree with your characterization of the term "violent" as comprising locking someone up.

But, whatever.
Lynchings used to be popular and the lynchers probably didn't consider them violent either.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 27, 2020, 10:44:23 AM
MS you were born too late
You should have been around in the 60s with all the beautiful people
you'd fit right in
Man i know - my music tastes steer a lot towards then too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2020, 10:45:58 AM
See, we're on different sides of the aisle, but we agree: we need to do more to address systemic racism.

There is--right now--an investigation into the shooting and whether it was justified. I'm not an expert on that, but as a layperson, it sure looks bad for the police. If he was saying threatening things--like he was going for his gun--then it's almost certainly justified. If he was saying, "F-this, I'm out of here" then it's feels a lot less justified--even if he was resisting lawful arrest. Resisting arrest is not a valid reason to impose the deadly force. Putting someone's life in immediate jeopardy is.

And getting back to what I said so many pages back, if he was threatening to go get a gun from his car why the heck didn't they do more to stop him, like maneuvering in front of him, for example?

The investigation will tell us more when it is complete.
The tazed him four times. They had him on the ground and he escaped. The officer grabbed him by the shirt as he was going into his car. He was repeatedly told to stand down. He was told to drop his knife.

There was a loaded gun under his seat. (and the three kids in the car blah blah blah)

What would YOU have done? Stand there and get shot?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 27, 2020, 10:46:17 AM
Man i know - my music tastes steer a lot towards then too.
here you are


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJgwGxY37OE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJgwGxY37OE)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 27, 2020, 10:51:17 AM
here you are


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJgwGxY37OE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJgwGxY37OE)
Grooooovy
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 27, 2020, 10:51:55 AM
The tazed him four times. They had him on the ground and he escaped. The officer grabbed him by the shirt as he was going into his car. He was repeatedly told to stand down. He was told to drop his knife.

There was a loaded gun under his seat. (and the three kids in the car blah blah blah)

What would YOU have done? Stand there and get shot?
Was there a gun? The only thing I've seen mentioned was a knife
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2020, 10:52:59 AM
Violent crime rates are down significantly since 1993 or so, significantly, maybe due to Biden's crime bill.

So, I'd opine perhaps history shows it has worked out that way.

My dad, incidentally, worked with prison populations to set up educational programs for them.  I was shocked at about age 10 or so to learn recidivism rates were over 70%.  He believed that very few prisoners really took advantage of the opportunities provided to develop a skill or get a GED.

His job also changed his views on race significantly to the point I avoided the topic like the plague around him.
I don't think he remembers that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 27, 2020, 11:11:07 AM
Was there a gun? The only thing I've seen mentioned was a knife
Idk. But he was ignoring commands and reaching into his car. At that point you can’t wait until a bullet is coming at you to determine if he has a gun.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2020, 11:15:35 AM
Was there a gun? The only thing I've seen mentioned was a knife
I'm told there was. The investigation will be out, and it won't be long. I was told that it's a matter of weeks, if not days.

When (not if) the shooting is announced as justified... Kenosha will be blown up.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2020, 11:19:29 AM
We are in Northpoint Marina now, and several more are joining today. The harbormaster here has been kind, giving us a deal for $1/foot/day rather than the standard $1.25. He is doing this for all Kenosha refugees.

He said he expects 300 more from Kenosha by tomorrow. Kenosha holds 550 boats. So there may be 100 or so left there.

No economic impacts at all here. Nothing to see.

This harbor still sucks though. Nothing changed since we all left it back in 2005. Of course, it is owned by the State of Illinois, so... yeah. It sucks.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on August 27, 2020, 11:22:01 AM
We are in Northpoint Marina now, and several more are joining today. The harbormaster here has been kind, giving us a deal for $1/foot/day rather than the standard $1.25. He is doing this for all Kenosha refugees.

He said he expects 300 more from Kenosha by tomorrow. Kenosha holds 550 boats. So there may be 100 or so left there.

No economic impacts at all here. Nothing to see.

This harbor still sucks though. Nothing changed since we all left it back in 2005. Of course, it is owned by the State of Illinois, so... yeah. It sucks.

You all should send the governor a bill.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2020, 11:22:17 AM
I read some study along time ago noting that poorer people at that time were far more likely to have serious lead exposure than wealthier folks, from gasoline and from paint.  It suggested there had been a measurable increase in IQ after lead paint was abated.
There's a significant body of work that points a lot of societal ills at the feet of lead, although more specifically leaded gasoline than paint. As emissions grew up into the late 70s of leaded gasoline, the amount of lead in topsoil grew with it. Then as it was phased out, the lead concentrations in soil slowly decreased. 

Taking in a roughly 18-year lag (the belief is that the ill effects are due to early childhood exposure) between the exposure and the prime ages to commit violent crimes, violent crime was on a significant upward trend right about until the... Early-mid 1990s. And it's been dropping ever since with no really coherent explanation.

Lead might very well be that explanation. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2020, 11:23:36 AM
You all should send the governor a bill.

I'd rather send him a resignation letter to sign.

No chance in hell he gets a second term. The recall talks have already started.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on August 27, 2020, 11:40:16 AM
I'd rather send him a resignation letter to sign.

No chance in hell he gets a second term. The recall talks have already started.
His resignation won't help you, you're now "Florida Man." 


Can't wait to read a news article about you chasing a gator on a moped or somesuch. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on August 27, 2020, 11:42:37 AM
There's a significant body of work that points a lot of societal ills at the feet of lead, although more specifically leaded gasoline than paint. As emissions grew up into the late 70s of leaded gasoline, the amount of lead in topsoil grew with it. Then as it was phased out, the lead concentrations in soil slowly decreased.

Taking in a roughly 18-year lag (the belief is that the ill effects are due to early childhood exposure) between the exposure and the prime ages to commit violent crimes, violent crime was on a significant upward trend right about until the... Early-mid 1990s. And it's been dropping ever since with no really coherent explanation.

Lead might very well be that explanation.
So, being born in 1971, I'm probably very close to the peak of this lead-induced malady?

Suddenly a lot more makes sense... :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2020, 11:43:51 AM
Idk. But he was ignoring commands and reaching into his car. At that point you can’t wait until a bullet is coming at you to determine if he has a gun.
Right, you can grab him or taze him or 13 other things besides turning his BACK into swiss cheese.

But I'm wrong.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2020, 11:45:38 AM
Some of the most racist speech I see on TV comes from Black people

Hell in some universities there even a move to have all black dorms

Look on the channel guide on your cable system and you'll see a channel named BET which is Black Entertainment Television

what if there was a WET no way that would be allowed and it shouldnt be


You're so woefully lost.   I mean Jesus Christ.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2020, 11:47:19 AM
The tazed him four times. They had him on the ground and he escaped. The officer grabbed him by the shirt as he was going into his car. He was repeatedly told to stand down. He was told to drop his knife.

There was a loaded gun under his seat. (and the three kids in the car blah blah blah)

What would YOU have done? Stand there and get shot?
Sounds like shitty policing to me.  


How is it that multiple cops have so much trouble subduing these individuals?  It's as if they're not good at it or something.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 27, 2020, 11:51:11 AM
You're so woefully lost.  I mean Jesus Christ.
What does he have to do with it? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2020, 11:52:52 AM
Right, you can grab him or taze him or 13 other things besides turning his BACK into swiss cheese.

But I'm wrong.
Yes, you are wrong.

Try paying attention to my posts, particularly to those from this morning. The cops did all you are suggesting, and MORE.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2020, 11:55:22 AM
Sounds like shitty policing to me. 


How is it that multiple cops have so much trouble subduing these individuals?  It's as if they're not good at it or something. 
This sounds like shitty posting to me.

The guy was hopped up on drugs. Have you ever tried to subdue a meth head? It was two cops, by the way.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2020, 11:58:16 AM
Yes, you are wrong.

Try paying attention to my posts, particularly to those from this morning. The cops did all you are suggesting, and MORE.
Perfect, then they're poor cops.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2020, 11:58:55 AM
This sounds like shitty posting to me.

The guy was hopped up on drugs. Have you ever tried to subdue a meth head? It was two cops, by the way.
Why was he on meth?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2020, 11:59:01 AM
So, being born in 1971, I'm probably very close to the peak of this lead-induced malady?

Suddenly a lot more makes sense... :)

LOL... 

Bear in mind that for this theory, it also depends where you grew up. I personally don't know your story, utee, but there's a big difference between the lead in soil content growing up say in downtown Chicago vs growing up on a farm in Kansas, due to the amount of emissions localized.

But yeah, I was born in '78 in Oak Park, IL, which is one of the nearest suburbs to the city limits of Chicago. At a young age we moved to farther western suburbs. So anything that goes wrong in my life, I blame lead.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 27, 2020, 12:03:03 PM
Would this discussion be taking place if the guy that was shot was white?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 27, 2020, 12:04:09 PM
My closest Blue Life told me last night that "there better have been a gun," or that cop murdered him. He laid the whole situation squarely at the feet of the police. Even if there was a gun in the car, the cops were "just stupid."

His is just one opinion, but it's not my left leaning, skeptical opinion. It's one from a guy whose spent his life in blue, who has served a ton of warrants, both those that came easy, and those where they went in ready for a fight, who has had his hand on the trigger and thought he was going to have to pull it, and who has put murderers behind bars. Like most cops, he has a dimmer view of humanity than I do, and he knows there are a lot of dangerous, bad people on the streets. And he thinks society is being unfair to cops right now; he plans to take his retirement as soon as he can because he's sick of it. 

He thinks the pair of cops were stupid, and that the cop who pulled the trigger was in the wrong--and not unless there was a gun in the car, unless the cop saw the gun in the car, or the victim said he was getting it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 27, 2020, 12:04:53 PM
Why was he on meth?


He mostly likely got when he left bible study that morning while he was on his way to perform charitable work at the local food pantry. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2020, 12:06:58 PM
He mostly likely got when he left bible study that morning while he was on his way to perform charitable work at the local food pantry.
You're making my point for me, so thanks.  

on drugs -> bad person -> shot in the back -> deserved it


Right?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 27, 2020, 12:09:25 PM
You're making my point for me, so thanks. 

on drugs -> bad person -> shot in the back -> deserved it


Right?
Wanted on a warrant, physically resisted arrest, went for a weapon in his car. All three things led up to the result. Had he complied with the lawful orders of the police, he would not have been shot. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2020, 12:10:03 PM
My closest Blue Life told me last night that "there better have been a gun," or that cop murdered him. He laid the whole situation squarely at the feet of the police. Even if there was a gun in the car, the cops were "just stupid."

His is just one opinion, but it's not my left leaning, skeptical opinion. It's one from a guy whose spent his life in blue, who has served a ton of warrants, both those that came easy, and those where they went in ready for a fight, who has had his hand on the trigger and thought he was going to have to pull it, and who has put murderers behind bars. Like most cops, he has a dimmer view of humanity than I do, and he knows there are a lot of dangerous, bad people on the streets. And he thinks society is being unfair to cops right now; he plans to take his retirement as soon as he can because he's sick of it.

He thinks the pair of cops were stupid, and that the cop who pulled the trigger was in the wrong--and not unless there was a gun in the car, unless the cop saw the gun in the car, or the victim said he was getting it.
The "victim" DID say he was getting it. This "victim" won't have any more victims in his future. That's one positive here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 27, 2020, 12:10:19 PM
Would this discussion be taking place if the guy that was shot was white?
1) We should be, because police misconduct--particularly lethal misconduct--should be addressed.

But, and this is the bigger point:

2) Is there a centuries-long history of discrimination against white people in this country because of nothing other than the color of their skin?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2020, 12:10:49 PM
Why was he on meth?


Because that's what we all do when we have 3 kids in the car.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on August 27, 2020, 12:15:40 PM
LOL...

Bear in mind that for this theory, it also depends where you grew up. I personally don't know your story, utee, but there's a big difference between the lead in soil content growing up say in downtown Chicago vs growing up on a farm in Kansas, due to the amount of emissions localized.

But yeah, I was born in '78 in Oak Park, IL, which is one of the nearest suburbs to the city limits of Chicago. At a young age we moved to farther western suburbs. So anything that goes wrong in my life, I blame lead.
Born and raised in Austin, Texas. :)

I lived there for the first forty years of my life, until I'd finally had enough of the craziness and moved to a suburb.

Nah just kidding, I moved to the suburbs because I was raising a family and could get a hell of a lot more for my money by going further out.  Plus I was already working from home about 50% of the time and I'm no further from the office.  It did increase the commute time for my i s c & a aggie wife, but she's the one that wanted to move this far out, I'd have been fine way way closer but she wanted the big house with the pool and all that, so here we are.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2020, 12:16:33 PM
1) We should be, because police misconduct--particularly lethal misconduct--should be addressed.

But, and this is the bigger point:

2) Is there a centuries-long history of discrimination against white people in this country because of nothing other than the color of their skin?
Yes, there has been, and it's slowly changing - probably starting with my generation of people. It's not like it used to be.

The segregation and suppression started by the Roosevelt administration has been going away since the early 1980's.

Education is the key, but we need to build mutual trust. They don't trust those of us who are trying to help, and there are many of us. I don't know how to fix that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 27, 2020, 12:19:53 PM
The "victim" DID say he was getting it. This "victim" won't have any more victims in his future. That's one positive here.
Where are you getting that? Seriously--even Fox News isn't reporting this.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2020, 12:22:25 PM
Woodrow Wilson (D- New Jersey) was a noted racist. His policies and views did not help at all, at a critical time when racial justice was sorely needed.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 27, 2020, 12:22:44 PM
1) We should be, because police misconduct--particularly lethal misconduct--should be addressed.

But, and this is the bigger point:

2) Is there a centuries-long history of discrimination against white people in this country because of nothing other than the color of their skin?
1.) We have yet to see all of the evidence in this case to make a determination that this was a case of police misconduct. All we really know for sure is that a black man was shot by 2 officers. Everything else is either 2nd hand knowledge or conjecture. Until the facts come out, we really have no idea if this was justified or and unjustified shooting incident.

2.) Without all of the fact of this case, what does this incident have to do with centuries of discrimination against any race? You have made the leap that this is a race issue due to the color of the skin of the cops and the suspect. (I say suspect because is was reported that he had 1 or more warrants out for his arrest). 

So my insinuating that this is a race issue minus any substantive proof, are you not projecting a racist opinion on the subject? And this is the reason for my question. Because of the races involved in this shooting, people have jumped directly to the conclusion that this is a race issue. Could it simply be that a person resisted arrest and then posed a threat to officers that then feared for their life? Or maybe they over-reacted, not because he was black but because he had just fought them off and said he was going for a weapon. 

But instead of looking simply at the facts that are known, we have people bringing up centuries of racism to explain what is going on. I would prefer that we allow the authorities to investigate, get the details out and then we can sit around and make judgments of people whom we have never met and know very little about. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2020, 12:23:42 PM
Where are you getting that? Seriously--even Fox News isn't reporting this.
From a cop out of another jurisdiction who lives in Kenosha and knows both of these guys.

It will all come out. Did you see the video from Fox News? Shows a lot more than what is being shown on CNN.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2020, 12:25:24 PM
1) We should be, because police misconduct--particularly lethal misconduct--should be addressed.

But, and this is the bigger point:

2) Is there a centuries-long history of discrimination against white people in this country because of nothing other than the color of their skin?
We're posting on deaf eyes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2020, 12:26:47 PM
From a cop out of another jurisdiction who lives in Kenosha and knows both of these guys.

It will all come out. Did you see the video from Fox News? Shows a lot more than what is being shown on CNN.
Yes, FoxNews, the bastian of truth.  

Incredible.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 27, 2020, 12:27:04 PM
Yes, there has been, and it's slowly changing - probably starting with my generation of people. It's not like it used to be.

The segregation and suppression started by the Roosevelt administration has been going away since the early 1980's.

Education is the key, but we need to build mutual trust. They don't trust those of us who are trying to help, and there are many of us. I don't know how to fix that.
Come on, buddy. What centuries-long oppression of white people do you refer to? Please enlighten me. Don't give me the "Irish" or "Polish" line--that's not because of the color of their skin. Nor was it widespread, actual chattel slavery, 3/5, one-drop, Dred Scott, Jim Crow, lynching, redlining, restrictive covenants, etc., etc., etc.

And you're saying segregation and suppression of whom started by the Roosevelt administration? White people? Black people? Surely you're not arguing that the systemic, and government sponsored suppression of black people started with either Roosevelt administration.

Are you arguing that redlining was systemic oppression of white people because it denied black people entrance to white neighborhoods? That's a novel approach.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 27, 2020, 12:29:00 PM
From a cop out of another jurisdiction who lives in Kenosha and knows both of these guys.

It will all come out. Did you see the video from Fox News? Shows a lot more than what is being shown on CNN.
As I said, just one opinion from a guy who knows a lot about police conduct.

I did see the video on Fox News (which is also available from the NY Times, Washington Post, etc.). But even the reporters on Fox News haven't said that Blake said he was going for a gun.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 27, 2020, 12:30:10 PM
We're posting on deaf eyes.
Pot meet kettle. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 12:33:00 PM
Woodrow Wilson (D- New Jersey) was a noted racist. His policies and views did not help at all, at a critical time when racial justice was sorely needed.
Wilson's earliest memory was of playing in his yard and standing near the front gate of the Augusta parsonage at the age of three, when he heard a passerby announce in disgust that Abraham Lincoln had been elected (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1860_United_States_presidential_election) and that a war was coming.[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodrow_Wilson#cite_note-:0-11)[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodrow_Wilson#cite_note-12) By 1861, both of Wilson's parents had come to fully identify with the Southern United States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_United_States) and they supported the Confederacy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_States_of_America) during the American Civil War (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War).[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodrow_Wilson#cite_note-13) Wilson's father was one of the founders of the Southern Presbyterian Church in the United States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presbyterian_Church_in_the_United_States) (PCUS) after it split from the Northern Presbyterians in 1861.

He became minister of the First Presbyterian Church (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Presbyterian_Church_(Augusta,_Georgia)) in Augusta, and the family lived there until 1870.[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodrow_Wilson#cite_note-14) After the end of the Civil War, Wilson began attending a nearby school, where classmates included future Supreme Court Justice Joseph Rucker Lamar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Rucker_Lamar) and future ambassador Pleasant A. Stovall (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasant_A._Stovall).[15] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodrow_Wilson#cite_note-15) Though Wilson's parents placed a high value on education, he struggled with reading and writing until the age of thirteen, possibly because of developmental dyslexia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyslexia).[16] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodrow_Wilson#cite_note-16) From 1870 to 1874, Wilson lived in Columbia, South Carolina (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia,_South_Carolina), where his father was a theology professor at the Columbia Theological Seminary (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Theological_Seminary).[17] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodrow_Wilson#cite_note-17) In 1873, Wilson became a communicant member of the Columbia First Presbyterian Church (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Presbyterian_Church_(Columbia,_South_Carolina)); he remained a member throughout his life.[18] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodrow_Wilson#cite_note-18)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2020, 12:33:56 PM
Wanted on a warrant, physically resisted arrest, went for a weapon in his car. All three things led up to the result. Had he complied with the lawful orders of the police, he would not have been shot.
Exactly your wasting your breath with that turd in a punch bowl
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2020, 12:36:30 PM
Come on, buddy. What centuries-long oppression of white people do you refer to? Please enlighten me. Don't give me the "Irish" or "Polish" line--that's not because of the color of their skin. Nor was it widespread, actual chattel slavery, 3/5, one-drop, Dred Scott, Jim Crow, lynching, redlining, restrictive covenants, etc., etc., etc.

And you're saying segregation and suppression of whom started by the Roosevelt administration? White people? Black people? Surely you're not arguing that the systemic, and government sponsored suppression of black people started with either Roosevelt administration.

Are you arguing that redlining was systemic oppression of white people because it denied black people entrance to white neighborhoods? That's a novel approach.
Nope, nope, nope - we all know the emancipation proclamation ended all slavery and racism, and Lincoln was a Republican to boot!  The Jim Crow laws were for the best and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr's efforts were unnecessary and divisive.  

Common sense, right?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 12:37:17 PM
Sounds like shitty policing to me. 


How is it that multiple cops have so much trouble subduing these individuals?  It's as if they're not good at it or something. 
That is what I've been asking.  If they can't use a truncheon and can't use a choke hold, the next item aside from physical restraint is a Tazer, which often is insufficient, and the next item is a gun.

I have seen reports he had a knife in the car.  That does alter the equation some legally.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2020, 12:38:03 PM
Wanted on a warrant, physically resisted arrest, went for a weapon in his car. All three things led up to the result. Had he complied with the lawful orders of the police, he would not have been shot.
You're bypassing the "why" behind him not complying with police.  That's what I've been saying.  Your crowd doesn't care about the 'why'. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2020, 12:40:49 PM
That is what I've been asking.  If they can't use a truncheon and can't use a choke hold, the next item aside from physical restraint is a Tazer, which often is insufficient, and the next item is a gun.

I have seen reports he had a knife in the car.  That does alter the equation some legally.


But the tasers in the movies always work perfectly...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2020, 12:42:52 PM
Cops should train on dude ranches how to lasso people.  Hogtie them, then they don't need a knee on their throat.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 27, 2020, 12:43:03 PM
1) We should be, because police misconduct--particularly lethal misconduct--should be addressed.

But, and this is the bigger point:

2) Is there a centuries-long history of discrimination against white people in this country because of nothing other than the color of their skin?
No and no is the answer to both questions but I want to focus on question two.  There seems to be double talk on this point.  It seems like the same people who say we need to get past focusing on skin color can do nothing but focus on skin color the second something bad happens.

What made the George Floyd incident racial other than people wanting it to be? The ATL incident? Kenosha?  As long as whites and blacks continue to live, work, and congregate in the same places there will occasionally be conflict because that just happens between people from time to time.  But whenever it happens the default reaction is “well, that must be racial.”

I mean, are we trying to get past skin color or not? The messages seem mixed.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 27, 2020, 12:43:33 PM
are we discussing the big picture of racism in America here, or a specific incident where a black man was shot by two white men?

regardless of history or of this particular black man's life to this point, this black man made multiple bad decisions the day he was shot.

did the two white men make all the right decisions in shooting him multiple times?  I don't think so, but that doesn't excuse the black man's actions.

It's going to come down to, did the two white men act in accordance with their training and their employer's policy.

Does an officer need to "see" a gun or a knife before using his weapon?

Should the officers have done other things to subdue the black man before resorting to pulling their weapons?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 27, 2020, 12:44:13 PM
Cops should train on dude ranches how to lasso people.  Hogtie them, then they don't need a knee on their throat.
John Wayne wouldn't have had to shot this man, but he might have
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 27, 2020, 12:44:29 PM
Cops should train on dude ranches how to lasso people.  Hogtie them, then they don't need a knee on their throat.
Lol. I’d love to see your meltdown the first time a cop hogtied a black person.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 27, 2020, 12:46:40 PM
You're bypassing the "why" behind him not complying with police.  That's what I've been saying.  Your crowd doesn't care about the 'why'. 
explain why he wouldn't comply with police orders?  and why this reason should be a defense for his actions?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 12:46:44 PM
Things I've seen in my life:

White Only water fountains, with Colored next to it, a nasty one.

Black only schools that should have been blown up, no windows, unpainted, probably no heat, nasty places.

The ONLY black people you saw were doing menial jobs.  Zero police.  Zero politicians in elected office.  They did have their own doctors/dentists/ministers, but "we" never saw them.  A black man better be on his side of town when the sun set.

The impression one gets as a child is that blacks are different and inferior, and that was intentional obviously.  They all lived in a part of town with a derogatory name.

My boss in grad school had stories about living in his dorm as an undergrad in Mississippi circa 1965 and having to sleep on the floor because the red necks would drive by and unload rifle fire on the dorm indiscriminately.  The notion of a "Negro" going to college was an anathema.  He went to grad school at Case Western and said the cops at the time in Cleveland were brutal if you were black.

People my age who are black had a tough, uphill climb, far far tougher than anything I had to traverse.  My boss didn't want any favors, and didn't need them.  Even in the late 1970s, some people would say to him "I guess we know why you are here."

At the same time, I've witnessed specific quotas at work for advancing people of color to higher levels, hard numbers, and the VP's compensation depended on it.  That also is discrimination in my book, based on race.

I don't have a fix.  I rue the "war on drugs" a lot.  I think the Portugal experiment merits more discussion.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 27, 2020, 12:47:08 PM
You're bypassing the "why" behind him not complying with police.  That's what I've been saying.  Your crowd doesn't care about the 'why'. 
So tell us. Why wasn’t he complying?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2020, 12:48:55 PM
Lol. I’d love to see your meltdown the first time a cop hogtied a black person.
When have I ever melted down?  I'm not the caricature you've created in your mind.

I assume you're not the mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragger pictured in my head.  Correct?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2020, 12:49:22 PM
So tell us. Why wasn’t he complying?
How in the hell should I know?  Neither of us knows, but why am I the only one asking the question?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 27, 2020, 12:49:39 PM
1.) We have yet to see all of the evidence in this case to make a determination that this was a case of police misconduct. All we really know for sure is that a black man was shot by 2 officers. Everything else is either 2nd hand knowledge or conjecture. Until the facts come out, we really have no idea if this was justified or and unjustified shooting incident.

2.) Without all of the fact of this case, what does this incident have to do with centuries of discrimination against any race? You have made the leap that this is a race issue due to the color of the skin of the cops and the suspect. (I say suspect because is was reported that he had 1 or more warrants out for his arrest).

So my insinuating that this is a race issue minus any substantive proof, are you not projecting a racist opinion on the subject? And this is the reason for my question. Because of the races involved in this shooting, people have jumped directly to the conclusion that this is a race issue. Could it simply be that a person resisted arrest and then posed a threat to officers that then feared for their life? Or maybe they over-reacted, not because he was black but because he had just fought them off and said he was going for a weapon.

But instead of looking simply at the facts that are known, we have people bringing up centuries of racism to explain what is going on. I would prefer that we allow the authorities to investigate, get the details out and then we can sit around and make judgments of people whom we have never met and know very little about.
1) Agreed.

2) What this has to do with racism is the familiarity the black community has with being on the wrong side of police violence, and the systemic problems that put them there. Maybe this was a justified shooting (we're still waiting on that), but it is endemic of a problem that a large part of this country wants to pretend doesn't exist. Racism, and its effects on this society, did not end in 1965, or even when George Wallace agreed that maybe segregation wasn't the right way of handling things.

The solutions to these deeply ingrained problems aren't easy, but they also aren't simply throwing our hands up and pretending they don't exist. Nor are they state legislatures explicitly saying that the reason they are enacting voting "reform" is to deny black people votes (as the appeals court held regarding North Carolina's legislature in this decade, they "target African Americans with almost surgical precision.")

That's what drives Black Lives Matter protests. When people stop responding with "All Lives Matter" without being willing to agree that "All" necessarily includes "Black," there will be fewer protests.

This is just about the criminal justice system, but it's a useful start:
https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/un-report-on-racial-disparities/
 (https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/un-report-on-racial-disparities/)
As a thought experiment, imagine two farms that share a river as a water source and grow the same crops. The upstream farmer intentionally pollutes the river as it leaves his property because he knows it will flow downstream and damage his neighbor's crops. This allows him to sell his crops at a higher price because his are beautiful, whereas his neighbors are poor. He does this for decades. When the downstream farmer realizes that for decades his fields have been wrecked by the upstream farmer's intentional conduct, he takes that farmer to court. The upstream farmer learns of the lawsuit and stops the intentional pollution. Over the course of those decades the upstream farmer has gotten rich, while the downstream farmer has barely managed to scrape by. The upstream farmer has gotten rich, reinvested in equipment, expanded his farm, and grown a small empire where his product is known as the gold standard, while the downstream farmer has lived season to season barely getting by, had to sell most of his assets, is deeply indebted to the bank, and has a long reputation for poor quality. But the intentional pollution has now stopped, so we're all good, right?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 27, 2020, 12:51:32 PM
How in the hell should I know?  Neither of us knows, but why am I the only one asking the question?
give me one logical explanation why this man wouldn't comply with law enforcement orders?

why are you asking why?  That's another good question 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 27, 2020, 12:52:51 PM
We are in Northpoint Marina now, and several more are joining today. The harbormaster here has been kind, giving us a deal for $1/foot/day rather than the standard $1.25. He is doing this for all Kenosha refugees.

This harbor still sucks though. Nothing changed since we all left it back in 2005. Of course, it is owned by the State of Illinois, so... yeah. It sucks.
isn't there a nice marina on the Michigan side of the lake?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 27, 2020, 12:55:12 PM
Lol. I’d love to see your meltdown the first time a cop hogtied a black person.
You mean like these kids? https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/america-in-crisis/aurora-police-detain-black-family-after-mistaking-their-vehicle-as-stolen (https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/america-in-crisis/aurora-police-detain-black-family-after-mistaking-their-vehicle-as-stolen)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 27, 2020, 12:57:31 PM
How in the hell should I know?  Neither of us knows, but why am I the only one asking the question?
Great question. Why are you the only one asking that question?  The answer probably isn’t a compliment to you.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2020, 12:58:09 PM
You're bypassing the "why" behind him not complying with police.  That's what I've been saying.  Your crowd doesn't care about the 'why'. 
The knife was in his pocket, and when he managed to pull it is the exact time the two cops jumped off of him. You can see that in the unedited video I posted pages ago.

It's when ran around the front of the car and said he was getting a gun that the cops drew their weapons.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2020, 12:59:28 PM
Lol. I’d love to see your meltdown the first time a cop hogtied a black person.
Uh.. yeah. A rope and a black person. Fredo would go ape shit.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Come on, buddy. What centuries-long oppression of white people do you refer to? Please enlighten me. Don't give me the "Irish" or "Polish" line--that's not because of the color of their skin. Nor was it widespread, actual chattel slavery, 3/5, one-drop, Dred Scott, Jim Crow, lynching, redlining, restrictive covenants, etc., etc., etc.

And you're saying segregation and suppression of whom started by the Roosevelt administration? White people? Black people? Surely you're not arguing that the systemic, and government sponsored suppression of black people started with either Roosevelt administration.

Are you arguing that redlining was systemic oppression of white people because it denied black people entrance to white neighborhoods? That's a novel approach.
I'd much rather you comment on my third point than my first two, but hey.

When did the projects start to get built in the big (D) cities?


In 1933, faced with a housing shortage, the federal government began a program explicitly designed to increase — and segregate — America's housing stock. Author Richard Rothstein says the housing programs begun under the New Deal were tantamount to a "state-sponsored system of segregation."


https://www.npr.org/2017/05/03/526655831/a-forgotten-history-of-how-the-u-s-government-segregated-america#:~:text=In%201933%2C%20faced%20with%20a%20housing%20shortage%2C%20the,were%20tantamount%20to%20a%20%22state-sponsored%20system%20of%20segregation.%22



 (https://www.npr.org/2017/05/03/526655831/a-forgotten-history-of-how-the-u-s-government-segregated-america#:~:text=In 1933%2C faced with a housing shortage%2C the,were tantamount to a)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 27, 2020, 01:20:25 PM
You're bypassing the "why" behind him not complying with police.  That's what I've been saying.  Your crowd doesn't care about the 'why'. 
It doesn't matter "why" he resisted, the fact is that he did. If he was in the right, comply with the officers and let a judge hear your case. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

However, the obvious "why" he resisted is that he was facing felony charges and didn't want to wind up in prison for a number of years. That does NOT justify resisting arrest. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 27, 2020, 01:22:15 PM
You want me to agree that historically the Democratic party was the party of slave holders, segregationists, and racists? Done. I agree. And the housing laws and rules put in place in by the FDR administration were insidious, wrong, and have had horrible, lasting consequences.

How do you feel about Lee Atwater and the Southern Strategy?

Which party championed and passed the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act, and in so doing, "lost the south for a generation?"

Which party desegregated the military?

Which party reacted to the 2013 Supreme Court decision invalidating Congress's continued finding of a need for pre-approval of voting law changes by instituting voting restrictions to "impose cures for problems that did not exist" which "target[ed] African Americans with almost surgical precision?" That wasn't 90 years ago, that was this decade.

Which party's leaders and spokespeople complained that President Obama was trying to give free stuff to black people?

Which party's leaders consistently target Black Lives Matter protesters rather than opening up a real dialogue about how we might address centuries of harm?

Now I'll give you a tougher one, because, it's an example of how difficult and nuanced the solutions to these problems can be.
Which party adopted "school choice" as a major party platform in the 1970s as a way to allow white parents to use public dollars to send their kids to segregated, private schools? How is that complicated? Because school choice, when it is used to address inequality--rather than reinforce racism--is a complicated issue. In some instances it provides real opportunity for traditionally disadvantaged groups that are not immediately available; at the same time, it often starves the remaining people--those who don't get that opportunity--of precious resources. This is a difficult issue; there is some good school choice; and there is some bad.

To address your point, yes education matters, a great deal, though education alone isn't a magic fix.

That gets to my fundamental view of these things: there is no simple solution. People who admit there is a real problem with systemic racism in this country will not immediately solve it. And well-meaning people who are trying to find solutions will make mistakes--and even good solutions will never be perfect for every situation. But it all has to start with admitting there is a problem; and part of admitting there is a problem is not blaming Black Lives Matter for highlighting the problem, but instead accepting that there is a very real, very current reason people are so angry.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 01:27:54 PM
The voting rights bill was passed in the U.S. Senate (https://www.history.com/topics/history-of-the-us-senate) by a 77-19 vote on May 26, 1965. After debating the bill for more than a month, the U.S. House of Representatives (https://www.history.com/topics/history-of-the-house-of-representatives) passed the bill by a vote of 333-85 on July 9.

Johnson signed the Voting Rights Act into law on August 6, 1965, with Martin Luther King Jr. (https://www.history.com/topics/black-history/martin-luther-king-jr) and other civil rights leaders present at the ceremony.

This vote was related to S. 1564 (89th): An Act to enforce the 15th amendment to the Constitution of the United States (https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/89/s1564).

Two Republicans voted NAY.  Seventeen Democrats voted NAY.  The Democrats, of that era, who voted no were Dixiecrats in effect.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2020, 01:29:43 PM
The first step in any possible solution is to build trust, and that is a two way street.

The policies of the past 90-100 years have failed. No more programs. No more speeches. 

We need action, and it starts in the communities. All of our communities.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 27, 2020, 01:32:05 PM
1) Agreed.

2) What this has to do with racism is the familiarity the black community has with being on the wrong side of police violence, and the systemic problems that put them there. Maybe this was a justified shooting (we're still waiting on that), but it is endemic of a problem that a large part of this country wants to pretend doesn't exist. Racism, and its effects on this society, did not end in 1965, or even when George Wallace agreed that maybe segregation wasn't the right way of handling things.

The solutions to these deeply ingrained problems aren't easy, but they also aren't simply throwing our hands up and pretending they don't exist. Nor are they state legislatures explicitly saying that the reason they are enacting voting "reform" is to deny black people votes (as the appeals court held regarding North Carolina's legislature in this decade, they "target African Americans with almost surgical precision.")

That's what drives Black Lives Matter protests. When people stop responding with "All Lives Matter" without being willing to agree that "All" necessarily includes "Black," there will be fewer protests.

This is just about the criminal justice system, but it's a useful start:
https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/un-report-on-racial-disparities/
 (https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/un-report-on-racial-disparities/)
As a thought experiment, imagine two farms that share a river as a water source and grow the same crops. The upstream farmer intentionally pollutes the river as it leaves his property because he knows it will flow downstream and damage his neighbor's crops. This allows him to sell his crops at a higher price because his are beautiful, whereas his neighbors are poor. He does this for decades. When the downstream farmer realizes that for decades his fields have been wrecked by the upstream farmer's intentional conduct, he takes that farmer to court. The upstream farmer learns of the lawsuit and stops the intentional pollution. Over the course of those decades the upstream farmer has gotten rich, while the downstream farmer has barely managed to scrape by. The upstream farmer has gotten rich, reinvested in equipment, expanded his farm, and grown a small empire where his product is known as the gold standard, while the downstream farmer has lived season to season barely getting by, had to sell most of his assets, is deeply indebted to the bank, and has a long reputation for poor quality. But the intentional pollution has now stopped, so we're all good, right?
I am not arguing your point. However, I am talking specifically about the incident in Kenosha. At this point and from what we know, the history of discrimination in the United States has absolutely NOTHING to do with the action of either party in this incident. To assume that it does is mere conjecture on your part and a bit of racial bias being impugned on the officers involved.

There is ZERO public evidence to suggest that this shooting had ANYTHING to do with race, yet here you are, trying to give a history of race relations in the country as if they have anything to do with this single event.  

All I am suggesting is that we suspend assigning blame or motives to either party until the facts are in. Could this have been racial? Maybe, but I have seen nothing to indicate that is was. Could this shooting be justified? I don't know, perhaps it can. From the little video that I have seen, it does not look good, but I have not seen all of the evidence. 

But what I can say is that if the man that was shot had complied with the LEO's instructions, most likely, he would not have been shot. While I cannot state that with any degree of certainty, I can assume that there would have been no other reason for the police to draw their weapons. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 01:35:10 PM
One issue as has been noted is statistical.  We have however many "confrontations" between police and the public.  Some of them are going to go bad.  Some of the bad ones may be white LEOs and white suspects or black LEOs and white suspects, but those don't merit news coverage.  One "event" here in Atlanta was black cops apparently mistreating two black students in a car.

Then you have statistically some where you have white LEOs and black suspects, and those get highlighted.  So long as those continue to be "the news" and nothing else, perspective gets lost.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 27, 2020, 01:36:13 PM
Indeed; and it was Democratic senators from West Virginia, Georgia, and South Carolina (and a Republican from Texas) that led the filibuster against the Civil Rights Act--though it was a Texan Democrat who pushed the legislature to pass it, and who signed it into law, which ushered in the fundamental political realignment that Johnson feared.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 27, 2020, 01:41:48 PM
The first step in any possible solution is to build trust, and that is a two way street.

The policies of the past 90-100 years have failed. No more programs. No more speeches.

We need action, and it starts in the communities. All of our communities.
I honestly believe one of the major reasons for the problems in the inner cities is due to the war on poverty by the LBJ administration in the 1960's. While it was meant to help people to escape poverty, all it did was to make poverty more comfortable and rewarded single parent homes. Children of single parent homes grew up in a system that never gave much incentive to leave it. 

When government offers to help, my suggestion is to run the other way. They continually screw things up and then try to fix their screws up by doubling down on the problem which makes things even worse. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2020, 01:43:08 PM
There is good news from last night. Lots of arrests (Marshalls aren't playing) and lots of the true activists condemning the paid rioters and asking them to leave.

This is from one of the peaceful organizers, and what I love to hear. They even had a cookout in the afternoon for all to attend (I almost went, but we needed to move on):

“This is what it’s going to be, if you’re here after curfew, we’re not going to have anything to do with you,” she said. “Point blank. Period. So, if you’re out here after curfew, that is on you with those on. They’re not associated with us.

“If you’re out here after curfew, you are not associated with us. This is what we do. Peaceful stuff,” she said. “We get out here hang out together and be peaceful and demand justice. So, if you want to remain safe, we’re asking you all, please we’re asking you all we don’t want to have what we had last night.”

...

“Whoever stays out here, you’ll learn the difference,” she said. “There are two different types of people.”

She called for an end to the violence.


“That ends today. Either you’re here to be peaceful and do that for the cause and do what’s right or just don’t come because we’ve got to rebuild this. We live here, you guys get to go home to a pretty little city,” she said to the throng of media that approached her after the rally. “We’ve got to wake up to this now." 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 27, 2020, 01:43:34 PM
If these shooting victims were properly restrained by police initially, none of them die.  (Floyd may have died later of an OD.)

Maybe police need better hand to hand training.
It's more difficult for the average cop to engage in hand-to-hand fighting with the average resister these days.  For one thing, cops carry a lot heavier load than they used to, more ammo, more comm gear, often including flak vests, so they are relatively slow and cumbersome compared to the guys they are trying to catch and arrest.
There are increasingly more female cops, and on average they are smaller and weaker than the males.  And they too are encumbered by the additional baggage that cops now carry.  I believe that I have seen some seemingly reliable studies showing that female cops are more likely to escalate a confrontation into a shootout.  Also, too bad about the facts of biology, females generally have less authoritative/intimidating voices than males do.
But, yeah, they do seem rather unversed in h-to-h tactics and techniques.  I've wondered why those Kenosha cops didn't just tackle that guy instead of letting him walk toward his car.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 01:47:40 PM
Valid points.

We have two highly public shooting events where the suspect evaded two police officers and ended up being shot.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 27, 2020, 01:48:49 PM
It's more difficult for the average cop to engage in hand-to-hand fighting with the average resister these days.  For one thing, cops carry a lot heavier load than they used to, more ammo, more comm gear, often including flak vests, so they are relatively slow and cumbersome compared to the guys they are trying to catch and arrest.
There are increasingly more female cops, and on average they are smaller and weaker than the males.  And they too are encumbered by the additional baggage that cops now carry.  I believe that I have seen some seemingly reliable studies showing that female cops are more likely to escalate a confrontation into a shootout.  Also, too bad about the facts of biology, females generally have less authoritative/intimidating voices than males do.
But, yeah, they do seem rather unversed in h-to-h tactics and techniques.  I've wondered why those Kenosha cops didn't just tackle that guy instead of letting him walk toward his car.
If he had a knife in his hand (which I believe someone in the thread indicated), they most likely didn't want to be stabbed when they hit the ground by a guy holding a knife. But again, I can only give my reasoning. I have no idea what those officers thoughts were. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 27, 2020, 01:49:15 PM
But in both cases, the shooting of the suspect appears to be motivated by a fear for their lives by the LEO and not due to "systemic racism". It is only made an issue of race by those with an agenda.
Many times, it's bad policing that has let a strong discussion escalate to the cop fearing for his/her life.
Just as the rioting in Kenosha should have been nipped in the bud, so should an escalating confrontation between cop and suspect.  Better police techniques could end some/many of these altercations that end up with the suspects being shot.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2020, 01:50:59 PM
That gets to my fundamental view of these things: there is no simple solution. People who admit there is a real problem with systemic racism in this country will not immediately solve it. And well-meaning people who are trying to find solutions will make mistakes--and even good solutions will never be perfect for every situation. But it all has to start with admitting there is a problem; and part of admitting there is a problem is not blaming Black Lives Matter for highlighting the problem, but instead accepting that there is a very real, very current reason people are so angry.
Well said. 

I'd also highlight that the focus on the riots is in many ways a deflection. If we focus on the bad reaction, we don't have to address that there are serious and fundamentally unjust things going on in society that spurred all this anger. 

Those of us who point to these root causes are accused of supporting or at least excusing the riots, vandalism, and other bad behavior. That's not the case. Rioting and vandalism are wrong. But I can condemn riots and vandalism as wrong while focusing on the fact that the long-standing systemic racism that is causing the anger needs to be addressed. They're not mutually exclusive.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 27, 2020, 01:53:29 PM
There is ZERO public evidence to suggest that this shooting had ANYTHING to do with race, yet here you are, trying to give a history of race relations in the country as if they have anything to do with this single event. 

All I am suggesting is that we suspend assigning blame or motives to either party until the facts are in. Could this have been racial? Maybe, but I have seen nothing to indicate that is was. Could this shooting be justified? I don't know, perhaps it can. From the little video that I have seen, it does not look good, but I have not seen all of the evidence.

But what I can say is that if the man that was shot had complied with the LEO's instructions, most likely, he would not have been shot. While I cannot state that with any degree of certainty, I can assume that there would have been no other reason for the police to draw their weapons.

There is plenty of evidence that the disparities in outcomes between black and white people in the country is race-based. So much so that the point is essentially irrefutable in honest discourse. 

The point about systemic racism isn't that in any one situation an overtly racist person commits a racist act (though in the George Floyd example a likely explanation is a person who isn't actively racist, but probably at least unconsciously so, committed a racist act). It is that the systemic problems we have not addressed led to a situation where, once again, the outcome is dire for a black person.

As I said (so many) pages back, this doesn't excuse lawbreaking, including resisting arrest, and it doesn't mean we should coddle people who have proven they are a threat to society. It does mean that we need an honest reckoning about race in America so that we can try to address it.

Cincy above noted some programs aimed at addressing historical inequities, like affirmative action. There is this strain of thinking that affirmative action (1) unfairly harmed white people (and men), and (2) that as a result, black people actually have an advantage in today's America (or 1980s/90s America). But for all that chatter, it would be difficult to find a white person who would voluntarily switch with a black person if that included all the other issues a black person faced in his or her life. And the research (and anecdotal evidence) on the black experience in America is that even with race-based quotas or even just preferences, black people continued to face much greater challenges to their success than white people. That doesn't mean white people don't also face challenges--we do. But the mere fact of being black adds significant challenges, even when coupled with affirmative action and programs of the like.

So why are we talking about this here? Rioting is not ok. Destroying people's property--or government property--is not ok. But labeling Black Lives Matter protesters as domestic terrorists because some people (including some white-supremacist agitators) infect their demonstrations feeds into the "everything is ok, there's no racism here" narrative, and attacks their idea--one that is hard to argue with honestly--that black people are still suffering from unfair policies. Responding that "All lives matter" is not ok. When people said "Vegas Strong," or "Boston Strong," the reaction wasn't, "No, America strong."

Earlier Kris, I think, suggested colorblindness. Read my farm example: is everything ok at the end?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 27, 2020, 01:54:54 PM
Wanted on a warrant, physically resisted arrest, went for a weapon in his car. All three things led up to the result. Had he complied with the lawful orders of the police, he would not have been shot.
What weapon in his car was he reaching for?  Did the cops see him reaching for a weapon?
Or is that ex post facto speculation folks have created to defend the cops?
I've also seen "he might have had a knife" mentioned?  Did he really have one?  Did the cops see a knife?
If the police officers didn't see a weapon, then all the talk about guns and/or knives is moot.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 01:56:37 PM
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/wisconsin-doj-reveals-new-details-surrounding-jacob-blakes-shooting-by-kenosha-police/2329213/ (https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/wisconsin-doj-reveals-new-details-surrounding-jacob-blakes-shooting-by-kenosha-police/2329213/)

[color=rgba(13, 13, 13, 0.9)]"Mr. Blake walked around his vehicle, opened the driver’s side door, and leaned forward," a press release from the department read. "While holding onto Mr. Blake’s shirt, Officer Rusten Sheskey fired his service weapon 7 times. Officer Sheskey fired the weapon into Mr. Blake’s back. No other officer fired their weapon."[/color]
[color=rgba(13, 13, 13, 0.9)]Authorities noted that the Kenosha Police Department does not have body cameras, "therefore the officers were not wearing body cameras."[/color]
[color=rgba(13, 13, 13, 0.9)]According to the release, Blake admitted to investigators that he did have a knife at the time and a knife was recovered from the driver's side floorboard of his vehicle. No other weapons were found, the report said.[/color]


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 01:58:34 PM
https://www.wdio.com/news/kenosha-officer-identified-knife-found-jacob-blake-vehicle/5840998/#:~:text=Kenosha%20officer%20identified%2C%20investigators%20find%20knife%20in%20Jacob%20Blake%27s%20vehicle,-Updated%3A%20August%2026&text=The%20Department%20of%20Justice%20also,were%20no%20other%20weapons%20found. (https://www.wdio.com/news/kenosha-officer-identified-knife-found-jacob-blake-vehicle/5840998/#:~:text=Kenosha officer identified%2C investigators find knife in Jacob Blake's vehicle,-Updated%3A August)

The Department of Justice also said Wednesday evening that Blake allegedly admitted he had a knife, and a knife was found on the driver's side floorboard of Blake's vehicle. They say there were no other weapons found. 
A press release said officers tried to tase Blake first, but he did not stop. 
The DOJ says Sheskey was the only one who fired his gun, but all law enforcement involved are cooperating with the investigation. At a Wednesday afternoon press conference, Kenosha Police Chief Dan Miskinis said three officers are on administrative leave.
The Kenosha Police Department does not have body camera equipment. 


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 27, 2020, 01:59:11 PM
Stripped of the rest of my argument:

Imagine two farms that share a river as a water source and grow the same crops. The upstream farmer intentionally pollutes the river as it leaves his property because he knows it will flow downstream and damage his neighbor's crops. This allows him to sell his crops at a higher price because his are beautiful, whereas his neighbors are poor. He does this for decades. When the downstream farmer realizes that for decades his fields have been wrecked by the upstream farmer's intentional conduct, he takes that farmer to court. The upstream farmer learns of the lawsuit and stops the intentional pollution. Over the course of those decades the upstream farmer has gotten rich, while the downstream farmer has barely managed to scrape by. The upstream farmer has gotten rich, reinvested in equipment, expanded his farm, and grown a small empire where his product is known as the gold standard, while the downstream farmer has lived season to season barely getting by, had to sell most of his assets, is deeply indebted to the bank, and has a long reputation for poor quality. But the intentional pollution has now stopped, so we're all good, right?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 02:00:23 PM
A possible sequence of events after the suspect got up is that he told police he was getting a knife.  The LEO told him not to go to his car and pulled on his shirt in a rather lame attempt to get his attention or deter him, perhaps saying "I will shoot you.".

The man continued and reached for the knife and then was shot.

It's also possible this is not the sequence of course.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 27, 2020, 02:02:34 PM
Some wise man once said, "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is not compassion, it is not mercy—it is force."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 02:04:24 PM
I guess that is like how being incarcerated is violence.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 27, 2020, 02:05:25 PM
From a cop out of another jurisdiction who lives in Kenosha and knows both of these guys.

It will all come out. Did you see the video from Fox News? Shows a lot more than what is being shown on CNN.
Badge, respectfully, cops have been known to cover for each other.  It's one of the problems with trying to reform police departments.  The good cops cover for the bad ones.  "Don't rat out a fellow cop."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 27, 2020, 02:06:58 PM
There is plenty of evidence that the disparities in outcomes between black and white people in the country is race-based. So much so that the point is essentially irrefutable in honest discourse.

The point about systemic racism isn't that in any one situation an overtly racist person commits a racist act (though in the George Floyd example a likely explanation is a person who isn't actively racist, but probably at least unconsciously so, committed a racist act). It is that the systemic problems we have not addressed led to a situation where, once again, the outcome is dire for a black person.

As I said (so many) pages back, this doesn't excuse lawbreaking, including resisting arrest, and it doesn't mean we should coddle people who have proven they are a threat to society. It does mean that we need an honest reckoning about race in America so that we can try to address it.

Cincy above noted some programs aimed at addressing historical inequities, like affirmative action. There is this strain of thinking that affirmative action (1) unfairly harmed white people (and men), and (2) that as a result, black people actually have an advantage in today's America (or 1980s/90s America). But for all that chatter, it would be difficult to find a white person who would voluntarily switch with a black person if that included all the other issues a black person faced in his or her life. And the research (and anecdotal evidence) on the black experience in America is that even with race-based quotas or even just preferences, black people continued to face much greater challenges to their success than white people. That doesn't mean white people don't also face challenges--we do. But the mere fact of being black adds significant challenges, even when coupled with affirmative action and programs of the like.

So why are we talking about this here? Rioting is not ok. Destroying people's property--or government property--is not ok. But labeling Black Lives Matter protesters as domestic terrorists because some people (including some white-supremacist agitators) infect their demonstrations feeds into the "everything is ok, there's no racism here" narrative, and attacks their idea--one that is hard to argue with honestly--that black people are still suffering from unfair policies. Responding that "All lives matter" is not ok. When people said "Vegas Strong," or "Boston Strong," the reaction wasn't, "No, America strong."

Earlier Kris, I think, suggested colorblindness. Read my farm example: is everything ok at the end?
I can see that we are not going to agree. 

Let me just say this. I don't see people as monolithic groups defined by sex, race, sexual preference, etc. I see people simply as people, capable of making decisions for themselves, regardless of societal or environment norms. If I am being robbed or assaulted by someone, I don't stop and consider their race, gender or any other physical characteristic of the person committing the act. All I know is that in that moment, that person is a threat to me and the only thing I need to worry about is what action should I take to escape the situation alive. 

We can sit an analyze racial strife until the cows come home but it will not change what happened in Kenosha. And as long as people, white, black, brown, yellow, resist lawful police instructions and then fight with the police, there will be cops shooting people. That is a fact.   

But let me ask you this. If you believe that this incident is a result of historical discrimination or systemic racism or whatever other reason that may be postulated, can you explain how someone could make a claim such as:

“There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps... then turn around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”

Do you want to guess who said that?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 27, 2020, 02:07:40 PM
Wilson's earliest memory was of playing in his yard and standing near the front gate of the Augusta parsonage at the age of three, when he heard a passerby announce in disgust that Abraham Lincoln had been elected (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1860_United_States_presidential_election) and that a war was coming.[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodrow_Wilson#cite_note-:0-11)[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodrow_Wilson#cite_note-12) By 1861, both of Wilson's parents had come to fully identify with the Southern United States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_United_States) and they supported the Confederacy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_States_of_America) during the American Civil War (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War).[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodrow_Wilson#cite_note-13) Wilson's father was one of the founders of the Southern Presbyterian Church in the United States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presbyterian_Church_in_the_United_States) (PCUS) after it split from the Northern Presbyterians in 1861.

He became minister of the First Presbyterian Church (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Presbyterian_Church_(Augusta,_Georgia)) in Augusta, and the family lived there until 1870.[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodrow_Wilson#cite_note-14) After the end of the Civil War, Wilson began attending a nearby school, where classmates included future Supreme Court Justice Joseph Rucker Lamar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Rucker_Lamar) and future ambassador Pleasant A. Stovall (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasant_A._Stovall).[15] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodrow_Wilson#cite_note-15) Though Wilson's parents placed a high value on education, he struggled with reading and writing until the age of thirteen, possibly because of developmental dyslexia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyslexia).[16] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodrow_Wilson#cite_note-16) From 1870 to 1874, Wilson lived in Columbia, South Carolina (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia,_South_Carolina), where his father was a theology professor at the Columbia Theological Seminary (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Theological_Seminary).[17] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodrow_Wilson#cite_note-17) In 1873, Wilson became a communicant member of the Columbia First Presbyterian Church (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Presbyterian_Church_(Columbia,_South_Carolina)); he remained a member throughout his life.[18] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodrow_Wilson#cite_note-18)
Yes, the Great Progressive was the most racist president since Andrew Johnson.  AND a eugenicist to boot.  Those two belief systems tended to go hand-in-hand among Progressives.  Even W.E.B. Du Bois was a eugenics supporter for awhile.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 27, 2020, 02:11:15 PM
No and no is the answer to both questions but I want to focus on question two.  There seems to be double talk on this point.  It seems like the same people who say we need to get past focusing on skin color can do nothing but focus on skin color the second something bad happens.

What made the George Floyd incident racial other than people wanting it to be? The ATL incident? Kenosha?  As long as whites and blacks continue to live, work, and congregate in the same places there will occasionally be conflict because that just happens between people from time to time.  But whenever it happens the default reaction is “well, that must be racial.”

I mean, are we trying to get past skin color or not? The messages seem mixed.
Sadly, the children and grandchildren of the '60s civil right leaders are focusing more and more on skin color.  The idea of a color-blind society is now seen to be racist itself.
MLK's ideas are not supported by today's "black leadership."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 27, 2020, 02:11:29 PM
Badge, respectfully, cops have been known to cover for each other.  It's one of the problems with trying to reform police departments.  The good cops cover for the bad ones.  "Don't rat out a fellow cop."
I am sure that happens more often than it should. And I would support holding cops accountable for their actions and for any of those that cover for them with strict prison sentences if they are found guilty. 

However, we cannot dismiss their testimony out of hand simply because of this. We have to at least allow them to tell their side of the story. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 02:13:34 PM
I had not known Wilson grew up in Augusta, GA.  I did as well, which perhaps explains some things (until I was 10).

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 27, 2020, 02:13:39 PM
Sadly, the children and grandchildren of the '60s civil right leaders are focusing more and more on skin color.  The idea of a color-blind society is now seen to be racist itself.
MLK's ideas are not supported by today's "black leadership."
Agreed. Perhaps if we didn't look for racism in every aspect of our lives, we could learn to live together peacefully. It all starts with treating others as we would have them treat us. It's that simple, but is hard for some to grasp. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 27, 2020, 02:15:48 PM
1) Agreed.

2) What this has to do with racism is the familiarity the black community has with being on the wrong side of police violence, and the systemic problems that put them there. Maybe this was a justified shooting (we're still waiting on that), but it is endemic of a problem that a large part of this country wants to pretend doesn't exist. Racism, and its effects on this society, did not end in 1965, or even when George Wallace agreed that maybe segregation wasn't the right way of handling things.

The solutions to these deeply ingrained problems aren't easy, but they also aren't simply throwing our hands up and pretending they don't exist. Nor are they state legislatures explicitly saying that the reason they are enacting voting "reform" is to deny black people votes (as the appeals court held regarding North Carolina's legislature in this decade, they "target African Americans with almost surgical precision.")

That's what drives Black Lives Matter protests. When people stop responding with "All Lives Matter" without being willing to agree that "All" necessarily includes "Black," there will be fewer protests.

This is just about the criminal justice system, but it's a useful start:
https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/un-report-on-racial-disparities/
 (https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/un-report-on-racial-disparities/)
As a thought experiment, imagine two farms that share a river as a water source and grow the same crops. The upstream farmer intentionally pollutes the river as it leaves his property because he knows it will flow downstream and damage his neighbor's crops. This allows him to sell his crops at a higher price because his are beautiful, whereas his neighbors are poor. He does this for decades. When the downstream farmer realizes that for decades his fields have been wrecked by the upstream farmer's intentional conduct, he takes that farmer to court. The upstream farmer learns of the lawsuit and stops the intentional pollution. Over the course of those decades the upstream farmer has gotten rich, while the downstream farmer has barely managed to scrape by. The upstream farmer has gotten rich, reinvested in equipment, expanded his farm, and grown a small empire where his product is known as the gold standard, while the downstream farmer has lived season to season barely getting by, had to sell most of his assets, is deeply indebted to the bank, and has a long reputation for poor quality. But the intentional pollution has now stopped, so we're all good, right?
Excellent experiment, SF!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 27, 2020, 02:16:18 PM
Stripped of the rest of my argument:

Imagine two farms that share a river as a water source and grow the same crops. The upstream farmer intentionally pollutes the river as it leaves his property because he knows it will flow downstream and damage his neighbor's crops. This allows him to sell his crops at a higher price because his are beautiful, whereas his neighbors are poor. He does this for decades. When the downstream farmer realizes that for decades his fields have been wrecked by the upstream farmer's intentional conduct, he takes that farmer to court. The upstream farmer learns of the lawsuit and stops the intentional pollution. Over the course of those decades the upstream farmer has gotten rich, while the downstream farmer has barely managed to scrape by. The upstream farmer has gotten rich, reinvested in equipment, expanded his farm, and grown a small empire where his product is known as the gold standard, while the downstream farmer has lived season to season barely getting by, had to sell most of his assets, is deeply indebted to the bank, and has a long reputation for poor quality. But the intentional pollution has now stopped, so we're all good, right?
From a policy standpoint what else would you like to see done to even the playing field even more for blacks in this country? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 27, 2020, 02:17:28 PM
I don't judge people by their demographic group, either. But when the evidence is overwhelming that our society does, in fact, judge people by their demographic group--particularly skin color--then pretending that it doesn't exist won't fix it.

The answer to your first question is systemic racism. That is the whole point.

The answer to your second? I'm guessing Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, but it could be any famous black person who said that. 

Here's another take on the same theme, from a friend and former colleague:
"Sometimes I look at my sweet little black boy and a guilty thought creeps, a hope really, that his light eyes and fair skin will make him appear less threatening and more human to the Amy Coopers and Officer Chauvins of the world.  And it makes me sick."

That comment also highlights the insanity of how we got to determining blackness in the first place. What makes her son black when his father is as white as anyone?

So summarize, either black people are inherently inferior, or there is a systemic racism problem. It's not the former. If it's the latter (it is)--then we need to take active steps to address it, rather than hoping that if we ignore it, it will all go away.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 02:22:09 PM
I have a notion that a lot of well intentioned government programs are having unintended dire consequences.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2020, 02:23:46 PM
It's more difficult for the average cop to engage in hand-to-hand fighting with the average resister these days.  For one thing, cops carry a lot heavier load than they used to, more ammo, more comm gear, often including flak vests, so they are relatively slow and cumbersome compared to the guys they are trying to catch and arrest.
There are increasingly more female cops, and on average they are smaller and weaker than the males.  And they too are encumbered by the additional baggage that cops now carry.  I believe that I have seen some seemingly reliable studies showing that female cops are more likely to escalate a confrontation into a shootout.  Also, too bad about the facts of biology, females generally have less authoritative/intimidating voices than males do.
But, yeah, they do seem rather unversed in h-to-h tactics and techniques.  I've wondered why those Kenosha cops didn't just tackle that guy instead of letting him walk toward his car.
Because he had a knife. They did try to grab him and keep him from going in.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2020, 02:34:18 PM
You guys all glossed over my "good news" post.


I'm really hoping the chatter of the Soros Army coming in for the weekend is determined to be just that. Chatter. I'd really like to go back home.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 27, 2020, 02:34:50 PM
From a policy standpoint what else would you like to see done to even the playing field even more for blacks in this country? 
I'll answer your question, below, but what would you do in the farm example?

Honestly, my policy proposals are almost all focused on economic rights and education, primarily improving the public education system (which, yes, requires more funding, among other things), and working to better balance the distribution of corporate wealth between the property owners and the workers. My preferred technique for that would be focus on private labor unions, because I think the private sector would better manage it than the government.

But that doesn't mean the criminal justice system doesn't require updating, particularly how it addresses low-level offenders, and that policing doesn't need updating, from a system that focuses more on initiating conflict to one that focuses more on reacting to it.

There are lots of other things to tinker with, but tinkering it should largely be.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 27, 2020, 02:35:53 PM
You guys all glossed over my "good news" post.


I'm really hoping the chatter of the Soros Army coming in for the weekend is determined to be just that. Chatter. I'd really like to go back home.
Badge, seriously, you are way too smart to fall for the Soros as a bogeyman trope.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 27, 2020, 02:37:14 PM
I don't judge people by their demographic group, either. But when the evidence is overwhelming that our society does, in fact, judge people by their demographic group--particularly skin color--then pretending that it doesn't exist won't fix it.

The answer to your first question is systemic racism. That is the whole point.

The answer to your second? I'm guessing Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, but it could be any famous black person who said that.

Here's another take on the same theme, from a friend and former colleague:
"Sometimes I look at my sweet little black boy and a guilty thought creeps, a hope really, that his light eyes and fair skin will make him appear less threatening and more human to the Amy Coopers and Officer Chauvins of the world.  And it makes me sick."

That comment also highlights the insanity of how we got to determining blackness in the first place. What makes her son black when his father is as white as anyone?

So summarize, either black people are inherently inferior, or there is a systemic racism problem. It's not the former. If it's the latter (it is)--then we need to take active steps to address it, rather than hoping that if we ignore it, it will all go away.
The answer to my quote was Jesse Jackson. And my point was to illustrate that while racism does exist, it is a two way street. Perhaps the answer to racism is as someone here suggested that we quit viewing every incident through a racial lens. 

While you seem to want to blame systemic racism for these incidents, perhaps if people raised their children to respect other people, regardless of race, then perhaps your friends fears will not be realized. I know that you will say that cannot happen, but I ask why not? 

I live in a predominately white community(?) (I live in a rural area that one would hardly consider a community). Most of my neighbors are farmers or children of farmers that built houses on the farm land. We do have a couple of people of color that have purchased houses in the area, but for the most part, most people here are white. 

One could conclude that because of this, most people in our area would be very suspicious of black people, not having grown up with them and with all of the "systemic" racism that is bread into our systems. After all, what evidence to we (my neighbors and myself) have that black people don't all live in poverty and commit crimes? 

I can say that anyone coming to that conclusion would be wrong. What few black neighbors we have that have relocated here recently, are hardly discernible from anyone else. They are treated no better nor worse than anyone else in the area. They go to work everyday, take care of their families and their homes. They don't demand anything from anyone and are just as willing to help someone in need as anyone else. In other words, the only difference between them and everyone else is that their skin is somewhat darker. And do you know what? NOBODY CARES. 

My point to this is to say that neither the black folks living here nor the white folks have focused on race. Therefore, we have ZERO racial issues. No one is treated any differently than anyone else. We all look out for each other and will come to the aid of anyone that needs help. I would hope that others could learn from that. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 27, 2020, 02:37:25 PM
You want me to agree that historically the Democratic party was the party of slave holders, segregationists, and racists? Done. I agree. And the housing laws and rules put in place in by the FDR administration were insidious, wrong, and have had horrible, lasting consequences.

How do you feel about Lee Atwater and the Southern Strategy?

It was not a good thing to do.  But, in the "watch what we do, not what we say" category, it was Nixon's Justice Department that really desegregated Southern schools.  By 1972-ish, the South's schools were more desegregated than were the rest of the country's.  Nixon also greatly expanded "affirmative action"--an action I think was wrong, but if you're checking blocks on what party did what, you should acknowledge.

Which party championed and passed the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act, and in so doing, "lost the south for a generation?"

A higher percentage of Republicans than Democrats voted for CRA '64.  And it is said, although Bill Moyers denies it--that LBJ further commented, "Now we'll have them n_____s voting Democrat for the next 200 years."

What is often forgotten is what happened to CRA '57 and CRA '60.  Those were Eisenhower proposals that were watered down by Senate Majority Leader LBJ and his fellow southern Democrats in the Senate, but they were nevertheless the first civil right legislation since Reconstruction.

Which party desegregated the military?

Truman started it, Eisenhower finished it.  I have seen the argument made by Ike's AG that Truman had sort of assumed that the services would comply on their own.  When Ike took office, the services were still mostly segregated.  He ended that within a year.  Eisenhower also sent the 101st Airborne Division to Little Rock to protect the black students at Central H.S., thwarting future Bill Clinton mentor Gov. Orval Faubus.

Which party reacted to the 2013 Supreme Court decision invalidating Congress's continued finding of a need for pre-approval of voting law changes by instituting voting restrictions to "impose cures for problems that did not exist" which "target[ed] African Americans with almost surgical precision?" That wasn't 90 years ago, that was this decade.

Which party's leaders and spokespeople complained that President Obama was trying to give free stuff to black people?

Oh, Republicans.  It was hard to avoid that when he and Eric Holder would openly refer to "my people" when discussing various programs.

Which party's leaders consistently target Black Lives Matter protesters rather than opening up a real dialogue about how we might address centuries of harm?

Oh, Republicans.  But I'll ask you--do Democrats really want a dialogue, or do they want a monologue where non-racist whites sit down and get told what racists they are?

Now I'll give you a tougher one, because, it's an example of how difficult and nuanced the solutions to these problems can be.
Which party adopted "school choice" as a major party platform in the 1970s as a way to allow white parents to use public dollars to send their kids to segregated, private schools? How is that complicated? Because school choice, when it is used to address inequality--rather than reinforce racism--is a complicated issue. In some instances it provides real opportunity for traditionally disadvantaged groups that are not immediately available; at the same time, it often starves the remaining people--those who don't get that opportunity--of precious resources. This is a difficult issue; there is some good school choice; and there is some bad.

To address your point, yes education matters, a great deal, though education alone isn't a magic fix.

That gets to my fundamental view of these things: there is no simple solution. People who admit there is a real problem with systemic racism in this country will not immediately solve it. And well-meaning people who are trying to find solutions will make mistakes--and even good solutions will never be perfect for every situation. But it all has to start with admitting there is a problem; and part of admitting there is a problem is not blaming Black Lives Matter for highlighting the problem, but instead accepting that there is a very real, very current reason people are so angry.
I don't think that the Republicans have been fully "right" on race since the 1950s, and I think that the Trump "Republicans" are really wrong on it.  But I don't think the Democrats have been right either.  Their solutions have been to throw money and good intentions at the problem, in the process trapping many black Americans in generational poverty.  The poverty rate is today still where it was in 1966, while it had been on a downward slope since the early 1950s.
I think black people today, and in general poor people today, would be better off socially, spiritually, and economically without the War on Poverty/Great Society programs.  I am as firm in this belief as I am that the Great Depression would have ended sooner had Hoover and then FDR done nothing rather than what they did in the name of ending it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2020, 02:44:52 PM
Badge, seriously, you are way too smart to fall for the Soros as a bogeyman trope.
I am very smart, thanks. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2020, 02:45:36 PM
I don't think that the Republicans have been fully "right" on race since the 1950s, and I think that the Trump "Republicans" are really wrong on it.  But I don't think the Democrats have been right either.  Their solutions have been to throw money and good intentions at the problem, in the process trapping many black Americans in generational poverty.  The poverty rate is today still where it was in 1966, while it had been on a downward slope since the early 1950s.
I think black people today, and in general poor people today, would be better off socially, spiritually, and economically without the War on Poverty/Great Society programs.  I am as firm in this belief as I am that the Great Depression would have ended sooner had Hoover and then FDR done nothing rather than what they did in the name of ending it.
What exactly is this?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 27, 2020, 02:46:59 PM
(responding to NorthernOhioBuckeye) That's great, but it's not the norm throughout the country.

I should add to my answer to Kris's question, that I would plainly, unequivocally state that racism is wrong, and that our black citizens deserve equal treatment under the law, and equal treatment by our society.

That doesn't seem revolutionary, but we need leadership that says it clearly, unequivocally, and acts like it is true.

Leadership matters.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 27, 2020, 02:51:04 PM
I don't think that the Republicans have been fully "right" on race since the 1950s, and I think that the Trump "Republicans" are really wrong on it.  But I don't think the Democrats have been right either.  Their solutions have been to throw money and good intentions at the problem, in the process trapping many black Americans in generational poverty.  The poverty rate is today still where it was in 1966, while it had been on a downward slope since the early 1950s.
I think black people today, and in general poor people today, would be better off socially, spiritually, and economically without the War on Poverty/Great Society programs.  I am as firm in this belief as I am that the Great Depression would have ended sooner had Hoover and then FDR done nothing rather than what they did in the name of ending it.
You and I are in full agreement on this.  To me it as if the Dems want to maintain their position of power by encouraging an entitlement frame of mind

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2020, 02:52:32 PM
Those of us who point to these root causes are accused of supporting or at least excusing the riots, vandalism, and other bad behavior. That's not the case. Rioting and vandalism are wrong. But I can condemn riots and vandalism as wrong while focusing on the fact that the long-standing systemic racism that is causing the anger needs to be addressed. They're not mutually exclusive.
Lock the thread!!!Thank You Bwarb you saved me one very salty response that prolly would have got me run - you get a Yuengling/Kolsch/Anchor Steam
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 27, 2020, 02:53:08 PM
That's great, but it's not the norm throughout the country.

I should add to my answer to Kris's question, that I would plainly, unequivocally state that racism is wrong, and that our black citizens deserve equal treatment under the law, and equal treatment by our society.

That doesn't seem revolutionary, but we need leadership that says it clearly, unequivocally, and acts like it is true.


Leadership matters.
That is the message that I have been hearing from Trump. I don't know what you are listening too. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 27, 2020, 02:59:30 PM
You guys all glossed over my "good news" post.


I'm really hoping the chatter of the Soros Army coming in for the weekend is determined to be just that. Chatter. I'd really like to go back home.
I saw the good news and appreciate it.
This is what I was asking for a few pages back.
A voice from a good person.  A good person telling the bad people to stop.  Telling the bad people that they are not part of the good message.  A good person understanding that bad people are not helping the cause.

why can't we get this same voice and message from Mayors, Governors, community leaders, celebrities, ESPN talking heads, and admired sports figures?

and on both sides of the issue

why can't good cops have a voice and a message that speak out against bad cops?

this is not a ford vs chevy debate or a michigan vs ohio st. rivalry issue, this is real. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 27, 2020, 02:59:37 PM
The Democratic Party is not full of saints, and it has a terrible history of actions on race. And, yes, some of the well-intentioned programs either didn't work, or worse, had terrible consequences for black people. Clinton's crime bill is another, more recent example. (For the record, I believe it was Nixon's administration that implemented the single-parent rule for certain public benefits.)

The Republican Party is not full of demons, and it has a checkered history of actions on race that includes real, positive leadership (not just the party of Lincoln, but it's hard to ignore Lincoln in this subject). Unfortunately, during the political realignment of the last fifty years, its tent has not only accepted, but in many cases encouraged racists to join. And in the last decade it has directly targeted black voters for exclusion. (And for the record, the mainstream right would tar Nixon as a socialist in today's political environment. Finally, don't get me wrong, Nixon was a bad president.)

If we could get both parties to full-throated, unequivocal agreement that racism is bad, we could make a lot of progress. But I will not play moral equivolency games: in the current political environment, there is a reason that the white supremacists see Republicans as their allies. It's time for Republicans to swear them off, and to disavow their adherents--and to stop doing things like targeting black voters for exclusion. If Republicans hope to win black votes back, those two things might help.

So if you agree that racism is bad, agree with me: black lives matter. Solutions to our history of racism won't be easy, but let's talk about what they could look like.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 27, 2020, 03:08:10 PM
. . . what would you do in the farm example?
Since it's the government's fault that they never enforced the pollution laws, they should compensate the victim for his decades of suffering at the hands of the upstream neighbor.
I have come to think that reparations might be better than all the well-meaning welfare programs we have had.  Tie them to specific government misdeeds, from redlining to crappy schools to injustice in the justice system.  All the things that have kept black Americans from growing social and economic capital.
Don't give every black convict a release.  Don't pay a Nigerian immigrant as if his ancestors had suffered centuries of oppression here.  But repair the damages the way we usually repair damages, with money.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2020, 03:17:15 PM

So if you agree that racism is bad, agree with me: black lives matter. Solutions to our history of racism won't be easy, but let's talk about what they could look like.
Let's do it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 27, 2020, 03:19:42 PM
Since it's the government's fault that they never enforced the pollution laws, they should compensate the victim for his decades of suffering at the hands of the upstream neighbor.
I have come to think that reparations might be better than all the well-meaning welfare programs we have had.  Tie them to specific government misdeeds, from redlining to crappy schools to injustice in the justice system.  All the things that have kept black Americans from growing social and economic capital.
Don't give every black convict a release.  Don't pay a Nigerian immigrant as if his ancestors had suffered centuries of oppression here.  But repair the damages the way we usually repair damages, with money.
You've introduced new facts, but they actually point to the extension of this experiment. What if it occurs over the course of generations, and one day, without prompting, the upstream farmer's descendant (now, herself, the farmer) discovers the pollution, never having realized it existed, but recognizes the harm it does, and she stops it. She is now the wealthy owner of a massive, productive farm with a great product image. Her downstream neighbor is the always failing family. So she has done the right thing, she has stopped the pollution. Now what? Does she owe anything more? She wasn't the one who caused the harm. What if it's even one more generation removed? The downstream farm has remained near fallow because of decades of pollution, even though the pollution stopped in the last generation?

The argument does point to financial reparations. The extension, including the government's failure to act issue, points to a collective response, not by the people who caused the harm, but by those who benefited from it. 

I haven't thought a great deal about what reparations look like, and the concept tends to bother me because it sure feels like the dreaded "hand out." It feels icky. On the other hand, paying reparations, even a relatively small amount per person, would send a signal that We the People recognize the harm that was caused. That's not a small thing. I'm not convinced, but I'm willing to consider it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 27, 2020, 03:26:59 PM
I know that reparations opens up a huge can of worms, but I think it's probably a better solution than the generational poverty that has been, at best, exacerbated by government welfare programs.

I thought Clinton's "end welfare as we know it" programs (of course, reached in compromise with Republicans) contained some good ideas.  The Obama administration gutted them, IIRC.  Or maybe gutted what was left of them, if the Bush 43 administration did damage to them.

The goal should be to end (as much as possible) the need for people to be on welfare.  I think most people agree on that.  The devil is in how to do it.

Milton Friedman had some good ideas about a negative income tax that Daniel P. Moynihan (as Nixon's domestic policy advisor) tried to get approved in Congress.  It got bogged down in detail with fault lying in both parties, but it would have been better than what we had and what we have now, I think.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2020, 03:39:17 PM
I'm not for reparations, as in writing a check.

None of these people were slaves, and their ancestors would not have been slaves had their previous owners (rich black people in Africa) had not sold them to rich white people.


Now, if you want to talk about reparations in a different light, I'm happy to go there. Things like investment in their communities, schools, businesses, infrastructure, jobs, etc.

That's how this gets fixed. Not talking about it.

DOING IT.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 27, 2020, 03:58:02 PM
The Democratic Party is not full of saints, and it has a terrible history of actions on race. And, yes, some of the well-intentioned programs either didn't work, or worse, had terrible consequences for black people. Clinton's crime bill is another, more recent example. (For the record, I believe it was Nixon's administration that implemented the single-parent rule for certain public benefits.)

The Republican Party is not full of demons, and it has a checkered history of actions on race that includes real, positive leadership (not just the party of Lincoln, but it's hard to ignore Lincoln in this subject). Unfortunately, during the political realignment of the last fifty years, its tent has not only accepted, but in many cases encouraged racists to join. And in the last decade it has directly targeted black voters for exclusion. (And for the record, the mainstream right would tar Nixon as a socialist in today's political environment. Finally, don't get me wrong, Nixon was a bad president.)

If we could get both parties to full-throated, unequivocal agreement that racism is bad, we could make a lot of progress. But I will not play moral equivolency games: in the current political environment, there is a reason that the white supremacists see Republicans as their allies. It's time for Republicans to swear them off, and to disavow their adherents--and to stop doing things like targeting black voters for exclusion. If Republicans hope to win black votes back, those two things might help.

So if you agree that racism is bad, agree with me: black lives matter. Solutions to our history of racism won't be easy, but let's talk about what they could look like.
I don't know where you come up with this stuff. What are you seeing that makes you think that white supremacists see Republicans as their allies? I have not seen this.

On of the reasons that Republicans for years, did not reach out for the black vote is that they assumed that the Democrats had it locked up and it would be a waste of time and money in an effort to go after it. It is not that they didn't want the black vote, but since the New Deal and the LBJ War of Poverty, Republicans feel that there was little hope of attracting the black vote. 

That is until recently. Trump seems to have started to erode some of the democratic support in the black community and have seen them coming over to vote Republican. I believe this has the Democrats very concerned in this election. Watching the RNC, they have highlighted a number of prominent black republicans and even a couple of Democrats, that are making a case that the Democrats have done nothing for the blacks for years while the Republicans are working in their interests. 

I don't know how it will play out, but I do believe that the Democrats are very worried about that possibility. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 27, 2020, 04:00:33 PM
Cool. We're on track.

But talking about it mattes, too.

When a person's elderly parent passes away, we do not respond with, "yeah, but she was old anyway, right?" We respond with compassion because we know it hurts. 

Indeed, if you've ever known someone whose family member went to prison, or was a drug addict, or had some other self-destructive behavior, one does not console that person with, "yeah, but Joe is a douche." Now, if it's your family member, it's fine for you to say to your friend, "he had it coming,"--though don't say that to mom!--but if you're lamenting it--even when you know the prison sentence is the right thing--your friends shouldn't be telling you he had it coming. You probably won't hang out with those "friends" much--you certainly won't turn to them when you're in pain. It's the old, my brother may be a jerk, but he's my jerk (by the way, my brother isn't a jerk).

It's a similar situation with the black lives matter protesters. They are expressing very real, visceral feelings. It's not because they think every felon who resists arrest shouldn't be subject to the law, it's because the way that encounter ended feels endemic of their experiences as black people in America. Compassion for their view (we feel pain) is important. Because once the compassion flows ("I'm sorry about your brother; I can't imagine how your mom feels...") then the conversation can open up ("Thanks, man, but damn it, he's got to get his stuff together.")
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2020, 04:42:54 PM
Don't give every black convict a release.  Don't pay a Nigerian immigrant as if his ancestors had suffered centuries of oppression here.  But repair the damages the way we usually repair damages, with money.
What's section 8 housing,obama phones,food stamps,affimative action......
And what about about 150 yrs ago?I had a great grand father 4 times removed fought in I believe it was Buel's Army at Shiloh,he died from his wounds.Point being todays rioters weren't slaves and I wasn't a slave owner.We have a syrian & lebanese families down the the street finding jobs and owning homes.Also my favorite beverage store Ned's was bought by an Egyptian.


  Every one has time,everyone can study,if an individual chooses to not pay attention at school or not pursue a skill,trade,profession that's on themselves.I'm on the measily end of the economic scale -make too much to collect any of those terrible free benefits.And I'm not in a high enough tax brackett to get the write offs that some of you here enjoy.The middle class is getting taxed into poverty.Too many section 8 renters get to vote on whether a home owner pays them more benefits/taxes on schools.People who don't see a bill for shit shouldn't be voting on whether I pay more money for something that benefits them and not me - taxation with out representation.My community has the 2nd highest tax rate in the largest most heavily taxed county in the state
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 27, 2020, 04:49:29 PM

On of the reasons that Republicans for years, did not reach out for the black vote is that they assumed that the Democrats had it locked up and it would be a waste of time and money in an effort to go after it. It is not that they didn't want the black vote, but since the New Deal and the LBJ War of Poverty, Republicans feel that there was little hope of attracting the black vote.

Forgive me on this one, but this seems so broad as to miss the mark. The 1934 and 1964 Democratic parties were radically different.

When the new deal was going and even up until the early 50s the Democratic Party counted segregationists as part of its broad coalition (it speaks to our weird tribalism that the pro-imagrant party of New York was under the same banner of pro-segregation forces in the south). I don't know well the history of how the democratic party shifted to be pro civil rights, but by the late 60s, the republican party had successfully courted that former Democratic bloc. 

I've read a thing or two saying that to court that mostly white southern bloc, pursuing the black vote went counter to that goal. I'd be very interested in a world where Republicans could craft a message and platform that would pursue the end of winning the black vote. At the moment, the message seems to be more about making that particular bloc dissatisfied enough with both parties it stays home, which is often good enough to win elections. 

(Interestingly, at some point, someone made the push for "majority minority" districts, an idea that tends to foster more representation in the halls of government, but also allowed the party minorities tend to vote for by a high percentage to in essence gerrymander itself, which is kind of the foot shooting I'd expect)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 27, 2020, 04:51:55 PM

I thought Clinton's "end welfare as we know it" programs (of course, reached in compromise with Republicans) contained some good ideas.  The Obama administration gutted them, IIRC.  Or maybe gutted what was left of them, if the Bush 43 administration did damage to them.
IIRC, a lot of that just shifted folks onto kinda dicy disability. At least at some point, people just moved from one roll to the other. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 27, 2020, 04:56:27 PM
I don't believe racism is political

but, here we are, discussing politics again
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2020, 04:57:20 PM
I don't know where you come up with this stuff. What are you seeing that makes you think that white supremacists see Republicans as their allies? I have not seen this.

On of the reasons that Republicans for years, did not reach out for the black vote is that they assumed that the Democrats had it locked up and it would be a waste of time and money in an effort to go after it. It is not that they didn't want the black vote, but since the New Deal and the LBJ War of Poverty, Republicans feel that there was little hope of attracting the black vote.

That is until recently. Trump seems to have started to erode some of the democratic support in the black community and have seen them coming over to vote Republican. I believe this has the Democrats very concerned in this election. Watching the RNC, they have highlighted a number of prominent black republicans and even a couple of Democrats, that are making a case that the Democrats have done nothing for the blacks for years while the Republicans are working in their interests.

I don't know how it will play out, but I do believe that the Democrats are very worried about that possibility.
It's when I see a response like this that I'm increasingly of the opinion that we don't all live in the same reality. 

That's not to say that you're not living in reality, NOB, but more that all of us, through the media/internet/social sources we choose to surround ourselves with, construct the reality in which we live

From the reality I've constructed around myself, I see a POTUS that actively encourages and inflames white supremacists with all manner of racist dog whistle remarks. From the pre-election "they send us their rapists, murderers, and some of them, I assume, are good people", to the Charlottesvile "there are good people on both sides", to scheduling his big rally in Tulsa on Juneteenth, to retweeting a video where someone yells "white power" and then pulling it down like it was a "mistake". 

To then suggest like he's been some champion of the black community is then met with a level of incredulity that I can't even fathom how someone could even say it--which is because that someone doesn't live in the same reality that I do. 

Again, I'm not saying that I live in reality and you don't. I'm saying we've each constructed a reality around us and the two are completely different--and conflicting. And it's beyond the two of us--the right and the left in this country are not living in the same nation. They're each living in the portion of America that they choose to view, and the two views are completely and totally different.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 05:06:04 PM
Seventeen Democratic Senators voted against the Voting Rights Act of 1965.  Some of them later switched parties.  Two Republicans voted against it.

George Wallace was getting quite a bit of northern support in 1968.  He was formally a Democrat.

Both parties are, in my view, willing to compromise on issues to attract a dependable voting block.

And, if they didn't, they'd lose any national election.  I would GUESS most outright racists today who are white vote Republican.

I think a lot of more latent racists also vote Democratic.  Biden has in the past made some, um, unusual comments.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 27, 2020, 05:14:37 PM
Seventeen Democratic Senators voted against the Voting Rights Act of 1965.  Some of them later switched parties.  Two Republicans voted against it.

George Wallace was getting quite a bit of northern support in 1968.  He was formally a Democrat.

Both parties are, in my view, willing to compromise on issues to attract a dependable voting block.

And, if they didn't, they'd lose any national election.  I would GUESS most outright racists today who are white vote Republican.

I think a lot of more latent racists also vote Democratic.  Biden has in the past made some, um, unusual comments.
Pretty accurate.

Wallace's northern support was kinda spotty. Depending on how one counts Maryland, his best Northern state was Michigan at 10.04 percent. Next was Jersey at 9.12. He did a little better in those states that sit atop Kentucky, Ohio, Indiana. I suppose Alaska is north, though perhaps not in our context. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 27, 2020, 05:15:34 PM
I don't know where you come up with this stuff. What are you seeing that makes you think that white supremacists see Republicans as their allies? I have not seen this.

...

That is until recently. Trump seems to have started to erode some of the democratic support in the black community and have seen them coming over to vote Republican. I believe this has the Democrats very concerned in this election. Watching the RNC, they have highlighted a number of prominent black republicans and even a couple of Democrats, that are making a case that the Democrats have done nothing for the blacks for years while the Republicans are working in their interests.

I don't know how it will play out, but I do believe that the Democrats are very worried about that possibility.
1) Use Google: search "White supremacist ties to Trump" or "White supremacist ties to Republicans." No, neither has rolled out the red carpet, but while some Republicans use the dog whistles (only some), Trump's are hardly even dog whistles, they're just whistles--and the community of avowed white nationalists has noticed.

I don't pretend that I will change your mind about Trump. I wish I could, but I doubt some random sports fan you read messages from could do that. I know that I will feel much better about the direction of our country if the person that John Kasich, Jeff Flake, Colin Powell, Chuck Hagel, William Cohen, and Christine Todd Whitman (and many more) support for the presidency, despite disagreement on most policy issues, wins. I didn't like W as a president, but I never questioned his humanity or that he felt his job was to support all Americans. Fundamentally, I think Trump is a mean, self-centered person, and governs that way. He isn't the cause of divisiveness in this country, but he is more than happy to exploit it and deepen it. And in the end, I believe his complete lack of sincerity in courting your vote will be exposed.

2) This Democratic voter couldn't have less concern about black voters defecting in any significant way to Trump. That Trump got a higher percentage of the black vote (8%) than Romney or McCain--who ran against Obama--isn't especially surprising; he got a lower percentage of the black vote than W did. It literally amuses me that you see that as a real possibility.

That won't change your mind. I don't expect it to. Such is life.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2020, 05:20:13 PM
Rather than trying to change minds (we won't), I'd rather we focus on solutions to the problem.

I've identified some possibilities. Nobody wants to discuss, apparently. I don't care what "side" you're on. Let's work on this, together, as this

(https://i.imgur.com/thlQtIM.jpg)

Is what binds us - for now anyway.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2020, 05:20:50 PM
From one of my regularly-read blogs (http://coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2020/08/campaign-zero-doing-the-hard-work-on-police-accountability.html) I came across Campaign Zero: https://www.joincampaignzero.org/ (https://www.joincampaignzero.org/)

I haven't gone into it in any depth at this point, but it seems like it's a group that is dedicated to working towards the actual tangible policies and changes needed to reform the system. 

Something to look into...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 05:21:26 PM
I suspect the Democrats do worry about losing some black vote, whether the worry is merited or not is in some doubt.

The Reps are at least making a play for it, whether it works or not is TBD.

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/14/902236623/trump-campaign-trying-to-win-over-black-voters-but-president-remains-a-tough-sel (https://www.npr.org/2020/08/14/902236623/trump-campaign-trying-to-win-over-black-voters-but-president-remains-a-tough-sel)

Of course, black communities with few exceptions are, we're told, monolithic.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 05:30:38 PM
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-chevrolet-corvette-z06-engine/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR2l7nIF15V4nSCU9zMeIBVLjdtgjzIGfqIVdiWyulXWXVklXz6aOzdDWHI (https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-chevrolet-corvette-z06-engine/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR2l7nIF15V4nSCU9zMeIBVLjdtgjzIGfqIVdiWyulXWXVklXz6aOzdDWHI)

9,000 RPM in a Corvette 5.5 L flat plane crank unturbo'd engine.

Sounds fun.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 27, 2020, 05:31:17 PM
It's when I see a response like this that I'm increasingly of the opinion that we don't all live in the same reality.

That's not to say that you're not living in reality, NOB, but more that all of us, through the media/internet/social sources we choose to surround ourselves with, construct the reality in which we live.

From the reality I've constructed around myself, I see a POTUS that actively encourages and inflames white supremacists with all manner of racist dog whistle remarks. From the pre-election "they send us their rapists, murderers, and some of them, I assume, are good people", to the Charlottesvile "there are good people on both sides", to scheduling his big rally in Tulsa on Juneteenth, to retweeting a video where someone yells "white power" and then pulling it down like it was a "mistake".

To then suggest like he's been some champion of the black community is then met with a level of incredulity that I can't even fathom how someone could even say it--which is because that someone doesn't live in the same reality that I do.

Again, I'm not saying that I live in reality and you don't. I'm saying we've each constructed a reality around us and the two are completely different--and conflicting. And it's beyond the two of us--the right and the left in this country are not living in the same nation. They're each living in the portion of America that they choose to view, and the two views are completely and totally different.
The reality I am in is where I have seen the ENTIRE remark that Trump made in these instances instead of the "clip" that the left wing media decided to show to support the narrative that Trump is a racist, white supremacist. 

For instance, the remark made about Charlottesville, the left wing media only reported part of it. Here is what was said:


Quote
“Excuse me, they didn’t put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group.  But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides.  You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me, I saw the same pictures you did.  You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.”


After a reporter questioned him about it, he said:

Quote
“Excuse me, they didn’t put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group.  But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides.  You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me, I saw the same pictures you did.  You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.”


But you probably never saw that part because the MSM chose to ignore it as it didn't fit their narrative. If you want the entire story, you can read it here:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/03/21/trump_didnt_call_neo-nazis_fine_people_heres_proof_139815.html (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/03/21/trump_didnt_call_neo-nazis_fine_people_heres_proof_139815.html)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 27, 2020, 05:32:46 PM
It really is a tragedy that the black community isn't a more dynamic voting bloc, but it tells us a lot about politics in this country.

Badge, I'm game: you want direct investment in black neighborhoods, schools, and work/trade programs? I'm all for it. How do you propose to do it?

I'd expand that to poor neighborhoods (this will disproportionately assist people of color because of, well, disproportions). One thing to consider is fiber--or at least digital--internet access for all Americans. Like electricity and telephones in years past, in the modern world it is hard to operate without access to the internet.

How about race-neutral charging and sentencing in the criminal justice system: e.g., remove racial indicators from criminal files when reviewed for charging and sentencing (no pictures, names, race, and neighborhood, I'm sure there are others). Make this the nationwide standard. (I'm not a criminologist, so there are probably dozens of problems with this).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 05:37:15 PM
Maybe an REA kind of program for Internet?

Schooling is always key.  I saw how good schools can generate outstanding citizens from poor families.

I just made another sizeable donation.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 27, 2020, 05:40:00 PM
1) Use Google: search "White supremacist ties to Trump" or "White supremacist ties to Republicans." No, neither has rolled out the red carpet, but while some Republicans use the dog whistles (only some), Trump's are hardly even dog whistles, they're just whistles--and the community of avowed white nationalists has noticed.

I don't pretend that I will change your mind about Trump. I wish I could, but I doubt some random sports fan you read messages from could do that. I know that I will feel much better about the direction of our country if the person that John Kasich, Jeff Flake, Colin Powell, Chuck Hagel, William Cohen, and Christine Todd Whitman (and many more) support for the presidency, despite disagreement on most policy issues, wins. I didn't like W as a president, but I never questioned his humanity or that he felt his job was to support all Americans. Fundamentally, I think Trump is a mean, self-centered person, and governs that way. He isn't the cause of divisiveness in this country, but he is more than happy to exploit it and deepen it. And in the end, I believe his complete lack of sincerity in courting your vote will be exposed.

2) This Democratic voter couldn't have less concern about black voters defecting in any significant way to Trump. That Trump got a higher percentage of the black vote (8%) than Romney or McCain--who ran against Obama--isn't especially surprising; he got a lower percentage of the black vote than W did. It literally amuses me that you see that as a real possibility.

That won't change your mind. I don't expect it to. Such is life.
1.) I don't use Google as they have been intentionally altering their search results to support a left wing narrative. I use Duck Duck Go. If you don't believe me, try it sometime. Google Obama Scandals in both search engines and compare the results. 

As far as the "Republicans" you listed, many of those are part of the reason that I really don't support the Republican party as they are pretty much establishment figures, more concerned with the party than the country. Trump is more of a threat to the establishment Republicans than he is to the Democrats and that is why so many are running towards Biden. 

2.) As to the black voters support, we shall see. I don't pretend to know how it will go, but from what I have seen so far, I believe that the Dem leadership is very concerned about loosing a significant portion of that vote. But again, we shall see.

As for changing my mind, I will support ANY political candidate that will uphold the Constitution and favor a small and limited government. Right now, most of those appear to be some of the new comers in the Republican party. Not all, but most.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 05:41:38 PM
Small and limited government ... um, yeah.

Verbiage, in my view, not substance.  Just verbiage.  Sound bites.

Like how they care for the poor and downtrodden.  Um, yeah.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 27, 2020, 05:42:02 PM
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-chevrolet-corvette-z06-engine/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR2l7nIF15V4nSCU9zMeIBVLjdtgjzIGfqIVdiWyulXWXVklXz6aOzdDWHI (https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-chevrolet-corvette-z06-engine/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR2l7nIF15V4nSCU9zMeIBVLjdtgjzIGfqIVdiWyulXWXVklXz6aOzdDWHI)

9,000 RPM in a Corvette 5.5 L flat plane crank unturbo'd engine.

Sounds fun.
Nice. Outside of my budget, but nice none the less. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 27, 2020, 05:46:45 PM
Since we've basically fully devolved in to politics here, one fundamental stressor I run into in assistance for the poor is that people put as much value on something as it is valuable to them. So free stuff is often treated like trash, even if it should be really valuable. This is a world-wide phenomenon. So means testing, and charging nominal amounts for things is generally a good idea, because people value what they had to invest in. But there is a point at which we shouldn't deny basic human needs to people based on their ability to pay. People shouldn't have to choose between their children's food and their medication, etc. It's problems like that that I find difficult in public policy to help the poor.

So how do we get people adequate housing that they can be proud of without stripping it of its value, and how do we make sure people have food security, and medical security, without devaluing those things? (E.g., going to get a more expensive medical device than required because you know Medicare will pay for it.)

It's one of the reasons I don't like the universal basic income idea, or the free college for all. It shouldn't be free, but it shouldn't be out of reach, either.

And education is a tough part of this. How to deliver quality education to people who aren't food or home secure? Because once people get to the age of majority, if they don't have at least a good base, even trade schools (which should be a bigger deal) are out of reach.

One thing we can do is make sure that people who work full time can afford a basic level of comfort and security.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 27, 2020, 05:48:30 PM
Small and limited government ... um, yeah.

Verbiage, in my view, not substance.  Just verbiage.  Sound bites.

Like how they care for the poor and downtrodden.  Um, yeah.
It may be verbiage to you, but I really do wish we could get to that. The Federal Government was never meant to be what it has become. While it will never shrink to what it should be or how the founders envisioned, it could be shrunk if we had elected officials that put aside personal aspirations and worked for the good of the nation.

There are some incremental things that could be done to start the process. For example, eliminate the Department of Education. Why not? It is nothing but a bloated agency designed to consolidate power usurped from the states. Get rid of it.

Eliminate or greatly simplify the income tax and eliminate or greatly reduce the IRS. 

There are things that could be done. The biggest would be to repeal the 17th Amendment. That would go a long way in returning power back to the states where it was originally supposed to be. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 27, 2020, 05:53:05 PM
It may be verbiage to you, but I really do wish we could get to that. The Federal Government was never meant to be what it has become. While it will never shrink to what it should be or how the founders envisioned, it could be shrunk if we had elected officials that put aside personal aspirations and worked for the good of the nation.

There are some incremental things that could be done to start the process. For example, eliminate the Department of Education. Why not? It is nothing but a bloated agency designed to consolidate power usurped from the states. Get rid of it.

Eliminate or greatly simplify the income tax and eliminate or greatly reduce the IRS.

There are things that could be done. The biggest would be to repeal the 17th Amendment. That would go a long way in returning power back to the states where it was originally supposed to be.
currently the power is with the citizens of each state 

why would you want to take that power away
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 05:56:53 PM
It may be verbiage to you, but I really do wish we could get to that. 
I might wish for various things also, but I don't expect them, at all.  So, to me it's verbiage.

I'm more of an action kind of guy.  Maybe I'll circulate a petition, I hear those work.

I no longer listen to promises of politicians.  I may weigh some of the more serious ones and assess their likelihood.  Most are zero to me.  It's akin to getting rid of the EC or the 17th Amendment or 2A or anything else, not going to happen in my life.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 27, 2020, 06:03:06 PM
Like Chomsky said, politics is working all the time, and taking the day off to vote. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2020, 06:05:19 PM
The reality I am in is where I have seen the ENTIRE remark that Trump made in these instances instead of the "clip" that the left wing media decided to show to support the narrative that Trump is a racist, white supremacist.

For instance, the remark made about Charlottesville, the left wing media only reported part of it. Here is what was said:

“Excuse me, they didn’t put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group.  But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides.  You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me, I saw the same pictures you did.  You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.”

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/03/21/trump_didnt_call_neo-nazis_fine_people_heres_proof_139815.html (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/03/21/trump_didnt_call_neo-nazis_fine_people_heres_proof_139815.html)
Okay, so you're retreating to the fact that he wasn't defending neo-Nazis. He was just defending "proud Southerners" who objected to tearing down Confederate statues and renaming a park that was named after the lead general from the losing side.

There have been so many dog whistles I forgot to mention his unbridled support for the symbols of the confederacy--including the flag. 

Why would the President Of The United States Of America support the symbols of the CSA so strongly? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 27, 2020, 06:05:25 PM


There are things that could be done. The biggest would be to repeal the 17th Amendment. That would go a long way in returning power back to the states where it was originally supposed to be.
Back to the state government. So in this case the people of the state are not the state, but the politicians are.

We had the 17th amendment chat a while back. And in the most neutral way, it struck me as an interesting brand of elitism. I'm not saying that in terms of bringing any baggage with it. In a lot of decision-making, elitism is a benefit (a person with elite engineering knowledge should be in charge of engineering projects). But when we say, the people who select senators should be state reps and governors rather than the people of a state, we're arguing for elitism. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 06:07:16 PM
Were there not "very fine people on both sides"?  Do we know that is a false statement?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 06:07:26 PM
https://jalopnik.com/what-is-a-flat-plane-crank-and-why-is-it-so-loud-an-ex-1659688239 (https://jalopnik.com/what-is-a-flat-plane-crank-and-why-is-it-so-loud-an-ex-1659688239)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 27, 2020, 06:08:03 PM
As for changing my mind, I will support ANY political candidate that will uphold the Constitution and favor a small and limited government. Right now, most of those appear to be some of the new comers in the Republican party. Not all, but most. 
That would go hand in hand with limiting the power of government agents to infringe upon the rights of a person outside the most highly extreme situations, correct?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 06:09:11 PM
I read a biography of John Marshall, who really should be considered one of our FFs for the influence he had on the country.  I had not realized that the country nearly fell apart several times before December 1860.  The tinder was there, and dry, and ready for a spark.

We nearly collapsed after the 1800 election.  

This experiment in "democracy" has been on thin ice many times.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2020, 06:15:02 PM
Since we've basically fully devolved in to politics here

And peacefully, I would add, which makes me proud to be here.

My proposal involves big business making big investments in communities, creating shopping, jobs, better infrastructure. It involves people like us making small donations to help fund better activities for children and equipment for sports, etc.

It involves people like donating our time to help promote the message and build trust. I'd start with community elders, to try and build trust.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 06:17:48 PM
I've met SF Badger, he's a stand up guy, no doubt.  He's trying to do the right thing, even if he is a lawyer.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2020, 06:17:54 PM
Back to the state government. So in this case the people of the state are not the state, but the politicians are.

We had the 17th amendment chat a while back. And in the most neutral way, it struck me as an interesting brand of elitism. I'm not saying that in terms of bringing any baggage with it. In a lot of decision-making, elitism is a benefit (a person with elite engineering knowledge should be in charge of engineering projects). But when we say, the people who select senators should be state reps and governors rather than the people of a state, we're arguing for elitism.
No... Respectfully, you missed the point of that discussion.

It's that we are a federal republic, and that each individual state may have desires and incentives that are unique to them as an entity.

One of those desires is that prior to the 17th amendment, to some extent each individual state guarded its autonomy in certain areas. The state legislatures didn't necessarily WANT to cede power to DC. That was true whether it was California or Wyoming or Rhode Island. 

Originally the House was to represent the peoples' interests, and the Senate was to represent the states' interests. The 17th Amendment made the Senate just a slightly different version of the House.

The original makeup of the Senate was, IMHO, designed to create one additional brake on power moving from state capitals to DC. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2020, 06:19:11 PM
https://jalopnik.com/what-is-a-flat-plane-crank-and-why-is-it-so-loud-an-ex-1659688239 (https://jalopnik.com/what-is-a-flat-plane-crank-and-why-is-it-so-loud-an-ex-1659688239)


Would you please take that BS to a more appropriate thread? We're talking politics and race in here!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 27, 2020, 06:22:09 PM
Real constitutional questions: 

1) Does the Supreme Court have the power to overturn a law that Congress passed on the basis that the Supreme Court thinks Congress relied on the wrong data to support its findings?

2) Does the executive branch have the authority to take money that Congress allocated for one thing, and unilaterally decide to instead use it for something else? 

3) What governs the President's use of executive order?

4) Does the President have the unilateral right to terminate a foreign treaty that another president and congress previously approved?

5) Do Americans have any right to privacy?

6) What powers does the Tenth Amendment reserve for the people?


I don't necessarily disagree on the Department of Education. It's primary role, as I understand it, is to fund food and special education programs. Those could be the states' responsibility. Congress could block grant/delegate the authority to spend that money to the states, with appropriate oversight. Of course, the federal government took on these responsibilities because of the impression that states weren't appropriately addressing them. This is a small fraction of government spending, but it's something to look at.

How much streamlining in the tax code are you up for? Eliminating various line-item deductions? No more 401K, no more home mortgage deduction, no more child tax credit? No distinction between personal and business taxes? No distinction between wealth and income taxes?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2020, 06:24:06 PM
The Constitution is silent on abrogation of Treaties.  It's an interesting point, we can get into a Treaty, but there is no real guideline for getting out of one.

The Iran thing of course wasn't a Treaty.  Nor was Paris.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 27, 2020, 06:24:33 PM
I've met SF Badger, he's a stand up guy, no doubt.  He's trying to do the right thing, even if he is a lawyer.


Uh-oh; I feel like I must have missed something here... :-)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 27, 2020, 06:40:03 PM
CD, you seem to think I'm targeting specific things with those questions, and perhaps I am...like the Antiballistic Missile Treaty, for example.

Badge, the idea of donations is one that is widely shared. However the ability raise donations generally pales in comparison to the ability to tax. That's not universal, but there's a reason that governments rely on taxes and not donations. My favorite example, because I've lived it, was seeing local school advocates bust their buts to raise an astounding $2M to support our schools. Then we passed a tiny property tax increase--an amount far smaller per person than the average school donor was giving--that instantly raised five times that.

There's another problem with the donation model: donors only give to things they like, as in personally like. Who's to say that the donors have any expertise in what works? Example: I admire that Bill Gates wants to donate huge portions of his wealth, but does being a wealthy tech maven give him the expertise to determine what is best to address a particular social ill. What if he's only willing to give his money to a program that the experts and community it is intended to help think is a bad idea? Whether it's the Koch Brothers or George Soros, being wealthy doesn't make someone right.

That's not to say that I oppose local foundations and philanthropic funding, but it tends to be a good supplement, not the main driver of policy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 27, 2020, 06:48:55 PM
Not to mention, politicians already lean extremely heavily into the donation market - not sure that has been a beneficial development.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 27, 2020, 07:10:55 PM
Senators McCain and Feingold tried hard to change that--in a bipartisan manner. 

After the Rhenquist Supreme Court upheld most of the law, the Roberts Supreme Court gutted the judgement of the Senate, House, and President. Judicial activism? (Determining what is judicial activism is a fun game.)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 27, 2020, 07:35:12 PM
I'm not for reparations, as in writing a check.

None of these people were slaves, and their ancestors would not have been slaves had their previous owners (rich black people in Africa) had not sold them to rich white people.


Now, if you want to talk about reparations in a different light, I'm happy to go there. Things like investment in their communities, schools, businesses, infrastructure, jobs, etc.

That's how this gets fixed. Not talking about it.

DOING IT.
I'm not talking about reparations for slavery.
I'm talking about all the crappy illegal/unconstitutional stuff the government has done to them since slavery was abolished.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2020, 07:48:16 PM
Senators McCain and Feingold tried hard to change that--in a bipartisan manner.

After the Rhenquist Supreme Court upheld most of the law, the Roberts Supreme Court gutted the judgement of the Senate, House, and President. Judicial activism? (Determining what is judicial activism is a fun game.)
That law was unconstitutional, and it wasn't all that close. 

Whether you agreed with the law or not is immaterial. It was a flat out attack on free speech, and on the most important speech there is; political speech.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 27, 2020, 07:49:32 PM
What exactly is this?
What are "the Trump Republicans"?
They are ones who didn't craft a party platform for 2020 beyond saying that they support Donald Trump's agenda.
They are ones who dodge the media, or if cornered say "no comment" after Donald Trump as told yet another outrageous, inflammatory, defamatory lie.
They are ones who said character counted, until Donald Trump became the party nominee.
They are ones who wanted to address the growing budget deficit when Obama was president, but have turned into Alfred E. Neumann under Donald Trump.
They are ones who condemned Obama for his executive orders but see nothing wrong when Donald Trump does the same thing or worse.
They are ones who think that good government consists of "owning the libs" and causing "liberal tears."
I could go on if you'd like.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2020, 07:49:52 PM
I appreciate you all talking about hope and solutions. 

I'm pretty much resigned to the idea that humanity is a failed experiment of evolution, and the sooner it ends, the better. Hopefully we end without taking a couple thousand species with us.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 27, 2020, 07:52:52 PM
You and I are in full agreement on this.  To me it as if the Dems want to maintain their position of power by encouraging an entitlement frame of mind
I have thought that for decades, 320.
But lately I've been trying to give them the benefit of the doubt by assuming that they are just wrong rather than ill-intentioned.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 27, 2020, 08:00:10 PM
I don't know where you come up with this stuff. What are you seeing that makes you think that white supremacists see Republicans as their allies? I have not seen this.

On of the reasons that Republicans for years, did not reach out for the black vote is that they assumed that the Democrats had it locked up and it would be a waste of time and money in an effort to go after it. It is not that they didn't want the black vote, but since the New Deal and the LBJ War of Poverty, Republicans feel that there was little hope of attracting the black vote.

That is until recently. Trump seems to have started to erode some of the democratic support in the black community and have seen them coming over to vote Republican. I believe this has the Democrats very concerned in this election. Watching the RNC, they have highlighted a number of prominent black republicans and even a couple of Democrats, that are making a case that the Democrats have done nothing for the blacks for years while the Republicans are working in their interests.

I don't know how it will play out, but I do believe that the Democrats are very worried about that possibility.
I don't think that Trump's right hand knows what his left hand is doing.  I'm pretty sure that both of them are working hard to make him feel good about himself.
But at the same time he has some policies that have actually helped black communities, he won't condemn the white-supremacist elements that have endorsed him, and, in fact, retweets their crap, stoking the fires of disunity.
Or are you making a distinction between Republicans and Trump?
I agree that Republicans have over the last 40-50 years written off the black vote.  John McCain was a brave man to try to reverse that.  But the mainstream of the party leadership rejected that sort of thing in 2008, just as it did with Jack Kemp in the 1990s.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 27, 2020, 08:17:56 PM
What's section 8 housing,obama phones,food stamps,affimative action......
What that is is a bunch of programs that get people dependent on handouts.  I would include a gradual phase-out of the race-specific aspects of those programs as part of a reparations deal.  I think affirmative action is wrong in principle and in practical effect, so if I could wave my magic wand, I would end that tomorrow.

Quote
And what about about 150 yrs ago?I had a great grand father 4 times removed fought in I believe it was Buel's Army at Shiloh,he died from his wounds.Point being todays rioters weren't slaves and I wasn't a slave owner.We have a syrian & lebanese families down the the street finding jobs and owning homes.Also my favorite beverage store Ned's was bought by an Egyptian.

Albert Sidney Johnston is who you are thinking of at Shiloh.

You probably don't have any relatives who did one damn thing to any Japanese-Americans during World War II, but the country as a whole, including your relatives, paid reparations to those who had been wrongly interned and who lost almost everything they owned in the process.  FDR's solicitor general lied to the SCOTUS in the Korematsu case in which the Court ruled those actions constitutional.

The government at every level has done far more damage to black Americans than it did to the Japanese.  Why are blacks not owed anything more than programs that stick them in poverty?


Quote
  Every one has time,everyone can study,if an individual chooses to not pay attention at school or not pursue a skill,trade,profession that's on themselves.I'm on the measily end of the economic scale -make too much to collect any of those terrible free benefits.And I'm not in a high enough tax brackett to get the write offs that some of you here enjoy.The middle class is getting taxed into poverty.Too many section 8 renters get to vote on whether a home owner pays them more benefits/taxes on schools.People who don't see a bill for shit shouldn't be voting on whether I pay more money for something that benefits them and not me - taxation with out representation.My community has the 2nd highest tax rate in the largest most heavily taxed county in the state
This is not just a black thing (and I'm not saying that you implied that it is).  Numerically, there are more white people in poverty and on welfare than blacks.

Mr./Mrs./Ms. Anonymous made this pithy comment: “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.”

We seem to be there, brother.  Red and yellow, black and white, we want our goodies from the gummint.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 27, 2020, 08:31:44 PM
1.) I don't use Google as they have been intentionally altering their search results to support a left wing narrative. I use Duck Duck Go. If you don't believe me, try it sometime. Google Obama Scandals in both search engines and compare the results.

As far as the "Republicans" you listed, many of those are part of the reason that I really don't support the Republican party as they are pretty much establishment figures, more concerned with the party than the country. Trump is more of a threat to the establishment Republicans than he is to the Democrats and that is why so many are running towards Biden.

2.) As to the black voters support, we shall see. I don't pretend to know how it will go, but from what I have seen so far, I believe that the Dem leadership is very concerned about loosing a significant portion of that vote. But again, we shall see.

As for changing my mind, I will support ANY political candidate that will uphold the Constitution and favor a small and limited government. Right now, most of those appear to be some of the new comers in the Republican party. Not all, but most. 

Five years ago, I thought that those "squishy" Republicans were the source of all our problems.  Worse than the Democrats, because they operated under false colors.

But then Donald J. Trump arrived, and I realized that we could do much, much worse than Republicans who didn't 100% of the time faithfully support every tenet of my notions of government.  And we have done much worse with Trump.  He not only doesn't support most tenets of conservatism, he doesn't even pretend to follow the Constitution.  I cannot understand what he does that you think indicates he supports, or even understands, the Constitution.  I think the Constitution, to Donald J. Trump, is like "Two Corinthians."  Somebody wrote him a memo about it once and as usual he didn't bother to read it.

from another NOB post . . .

Quote
It may be verbiage to you, but I really do wish we could get to that. The Federal Government was never meant to be what it has become. While it will never shrink to what it should be or how the founders envisioned, it could be shrunk if we had elected officials that put aside personal aspirations and worked for the good of the nation.

There are some incremental things that could be done to start the process. For example, eliminate the Department of Education. Why not? It is nothing but a bloated agency designed to consolidate power usurped from the states. Get rid of it.

Eliminate or greatly simplify the income tax and eliminate or greatly reduce the IRS. 

There are things that could be done. The biggest would be to repeal the 17th Amendment. That would go a long way in returning power back to the states where it was originally supposed to be. 

I really wish that we could get to that too.
But we aren't making any progress whatsoever in getting there under the leadership of Donald J. Trump.  He's adding to the problems rather than reducing them.  He's run up more debt in less than one term than Obama did in two.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 27, 2020, 08:42:59 PM
One man’s “ progress” is another man’s regression. 

I don’t want your version of “progress”.     

I wish we had a real choice.  Not two horror shows.  

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2020, 09:46:24 PM
What that is is a bunch of programs that get people dependent on handouts.  I would include a gradual phase-out of the race-specific aspects of those programs as part of a reparations deal.  I think affirmative action is wrong in principle and in practical effect, so if I could wave my magic wand, I would end that tomorrow.

Albert Sidney Johnston is who you are thinking of at Shiloh.
No pretty sure he was in Buell's Army
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 27, 2020, 09:55:48 PM
No pretty sure he was in Buell's Army
I'm sorry, I misread your comment.

I thought you meant that the Army commander died of his wounds.  That would have been A.S. Johnston, the Confederate.

But you meant that your G-g-g-g-grandfather was in Buell's Army and that your ancestor died of his wounds.

You're right.  Buell's force was the Army of the Cumberland that arrived on the field at the end of Day 1 and was part of the victorious counterattack on Day 2.

Sorry about that!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 27, 2020, 09:59:03 PM
One man’s “ progress” is another man’s regression.

I don’t want your version of “progress”.   

I wish we had a real choice.  Not two horror shows.
He's a lifelong Democrat who realized he couldn't hijack the Democrat Party--maybe because they knew him too well--so he hijacked the only semi-conservative party we have and transformed it into his personal party that now knows no ideology other than supporting whatever he wants.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2020, 10:12:39 PM
  That would have been A.S. Johnston, the Confederate.

But you meant that your G-g-g-g-grandfather was in Buell's Army and that your ancestor died of his wounds.
I had a cousin who did a lot of research on great gramps but he's no longer around and the family didn't hang on to or lost things he researched.Military Historians say Johnston would have been a great one had he survived.Unlike that fiery preacher Polk Sherman's Army killed or Bragg who both appeared to be political appointees
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2020, 10:13:43 PM

They are ones who said character counted, until Donald Trump became the party nominee.
This is my favorite demographic now.  The evangelicals being a major subset of it.  THE #1 most hypocritic group of humans, ever.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2020, 10:17:41 PM
One man’s “ progress” is another man’s regression.

This is horrific bullshit.

Progress is inclusive of more people.
Accepting of more people.
Accommodating of more people.  

It looks like ending slavery.
It looks like women voting.
It looks like any 2 people in love getting maried.

You are backwards.  Thankfully, social progress will continue on without you.  Trump can't stop it, all he can do is be a speedbump.  It is inevitable, yet you fight against it.  In vain.  I laugh at you.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2020, 10:21:24 PM
You always have been and always will be the board's turd in a punch bowl
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2020, 10:23:11 PM
I'll take it.  Someone needs to break up the echo chamber here.


You're welcome.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2020, 10:31:30 PM
You're troll and this is the bridge you haunt.You talk about accepting/accomadating of people and then badmouth someone.What do you know about love.You bragged awhile back about being single.You couldn't be a bigger sucker if you had a stick in you
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2020, 10:38:42 PM
Oh, let's explore that random tangent.  

What have I claimed to know about love?  Tell me all about it.  If I enjoy the single life, should I get married?  Please, explain!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2020, 10:45:07 PM
You talk about accepting/accomadating of people and then badmouth someone.
I don't know why so many people have trouble with this.
Being accepting of others doesn't mean I have to tolerate your intolerance.  Sorry/not sorry.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2020, 10:50:06 PM
Shameful really you get into online arguments to have someone to talk to.And it's your personality keeping you single not your desire to be.You've picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 27, 2020, 11:38:23 PM
Don’t bother Nubzz.  

He is one of those Idiots who proves himself clueless every day.  Every forum needs a laughingstock. He is ours. 

He trumpets inclusion but could not be more racist, divisive and hate filled, like the far left he represents. 

Thankfully his kind never wins in the long run, which will remain true in this country for the foreseeable future.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 27, 2020, 11:43:31 PM
This is horrific bullshit.

Progress is inclusive of more people.
Accepting of more people.
Accommodating of more people. 

It looks like ending slavery.
It looks like women voting.
It looks like any 2 people in love getting maried.

You are backwards.  Thankfully, social progress will continue on without you.  Trump can't stop it, all he can do is be a speedbump.  It is inevitable, yet you fight against it.  In vain.  I laugh at you. 
Thanks fro.  I am glad I entertain you lol

as long as you and the rest of the hate filled racist trolls don’t win, I will be happy.  And you wont. Keep trying though.

you should seriously be locked up for your level of sickness. And while they are checking your brain- tell them to get the other moron( besides you) names Trump out of your head.  He is living there rent free and has turned you from a regular commie into a TDS research paper. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 12:24:05 AM
Shameful really you get into online arguments to have someone to talk to.And it's your personality keeping you single not your desire to be.You've picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue
Tell me more about my personal life, I'm dying to know. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 12:25:29 AM
Don’t bother Nubzz. 

He is one of those Idiots who proves himself clueless every day.  Every forum needs a laughingstock. He is ours.

He trumpets inclusion but could not be more racist, 
So I'm racist....how's that work?  Am I racist against my own race?  Is that a thing?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 12:26:21 AM
These are sure to be some bizarre hills you guys are going to die on - my being single and somehow racist.  I'm genuinely intrigued.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 05:57:52 AM
We should probably move on from personal attacks.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 06:04:28 AM
One could logically have a POV that some social "progress" is not progress.  We are now rather accepting of unmarried women getting pregnant, is that social progress?

And by "accepting", I don't just mean it's accepted generally as "not a bad thing", I mean that it is considered very normal and proper.

We might be better off societally if we collectively viewed it as something to avoid.  Our culture at one time looked down on "living on the dole".

But, it's a matter of perspective I suppose.

Anyone who asks hard questions on a message board tends to get derided and "kicked out".  Hard questions need to be asked, in my view, even if, because, they make us uncomfortable or angry.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 06:57:23 AM
CD, you seem to think I'm targeting specific things with those questions, and perhaps I am...like the Antiballistic Missile Treaty, for example.

I didn't think you were actually, but I've seen others think those were Treaties.  We don't have an official mechanism for getting out of Treaties, just getting into them.  I suspect the FF's thought they would be rare, and only used to end a war for example, or deal with freedom of navigation, etc.

The ABM Treaty had an "out clause" built in to it, so it's possible (I have not checked) that was used, as part of the Treaty.

It's probably a good general idea to have a specific out clause for any Treaty.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 28, 2020, 07:21:44 AM
This is my favorite demographic now.  The evangelicals being a major subset of it.  THE #1 most hypocritic group of humans, ever. 
Evangelicals have become a one issue voting block, imo. Abortion.  The thinking is if we can’t agree that babies shouldn’t be killed, then what else is there to talk about?  There has to be some things we fundamentally are in lock step on.

If you and I were tasked with coming up for new rules for college football and the first thing out of my mouth was, “Ok, no more running the football. Everything is a pass play” then we would probably have trouble moving onto other rules if every proposal I had was tied to eliminating the running game.

For better or worse, that’s what abortion is to evangelicals.  They (I’m saying they but I would fit in that group) think if we can’t agree on the right to life, then what else is there to talk about?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 28, 2020, 07:27:29 AM
Anyone who asks hard questions on a message board tends to get derided and "kicked out".  Hard questions need to be asked, in my view, even if, because, they make us uncomfortable or angry.
Exchange snarky remarks/attacks with "hard questions" and you have the scenerio - with distressing frequency I might add.Being passionate is not an excuse for being an ass
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 07:34:00 AM
If a poster annoys me, I generally just laugh it off.  We're not going to change opinions here, not often anyway.  We can bring "data" to the discussion, even if it's about Sweden, which seems for some reason to be a topic I'm not to surface even though I find it interesting.

I frankly don't know what the best path to COVID would have been, but I think it merits examining any country that did something different, including the Asian countries where mask wearing is common, and not wearing a mask is socially unaccepted.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 07:36:12 AM
It interesting to me that many people form opinions first, usually based on their political leaning, and then cherry pick facts to support said opinion.  They prefer THIS news channel to that, and this source of opinion on line to that, etc.  Confirmation bias.  It's rampant.  The willingness to challenge one's own beliefs and opinions with contrary opinions and facts is uncomfortable, and the effort usually devolves into name calling.

It also is the origin of much "bad science" that has existed.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 28, 2020, 08:02:45 AM
currently the power is with the citizens of each state

why would you want to take that power away
The House was supposed to be the voice of the people in the Federal gov't while the Senate was to be the voice of the States. Since the passing of the 17th Amendment, the States of ceded more and more authority to the Fed Gov't which has caused the Fed Gov't to expand well beyond what was envisioned. This has also given power to the 2 party system. Instead of Senators being accountable to their states, they have become accountable to their parties. In Ohio, our 2 Senators take their marching orders from Mitch McConnell and Chuck Schumer. If you want to know how they will vote on an issue, ask those 2 individuals. Prior to the 17th, the state legislature held control of the states senators. If they did not keep the states interest in their voting, they would be replaced by the legislature. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 28, 2020, 08:03:01 AM
Evangelicals have become a one issue voting block, imo. Abortion.  The thinking is if we can’t agree that babies shouldn’t be killed, then what else is there to talk about?  There has to be some things we fundamentally are in lock step on.

If you and I were tasked with coming up for new rules for college football and the first thing out of my mouth was, “Ok, no more running the football. Everything is a pass play” then we would probably have trouble moving onto other rules if every proposal I had was tied to eliminating the running game.

For better or worse, that’s what abortion is to evangelicals.  They (I’m saying they but I would fit in that group) think if we can’t agree on the right to life, then what else is there to talk about?
I'm solidly pro-life.  I believe that abortion is a killing.
But who the president has not moved the needle on abortion as a legal issue or on how many women abort their babies.
Abortion--thankfully--has been going down since the 1990s under pro-life and pro-choice presidents alike.
And justices appointed by ostensibly pro-life Republican presidents have not proven to be reliable opponents of abortion.  Just recently, Kavanaugh voted with the liberals to create a deadlock that left a lower court's pro-abortion ruling stand.
I don't think our POTUS personally cares about abortion, but he knows that his white evangelical base does, so he makes it an issue.  Same reason he held up a Bible in front of the boarded-up church (which I found disgusting).  Same reason he moved the U.S. Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem (which I favored).
I don't think "he'll appoint pro-life judges" is enough of a reason to vote for a scoundrel.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 28, 2020, 08:03:25 AM
Evangelicals have become a one issue voting block, imo. Abortion.  The thinking is if we can’t agree that babies shouldn’t be killed, then what else is there to talk about?  There has to be some things we fundamentally are in lock step on.

If you and I were tasked with coming up for new rules for college football and the first thing out of my mouth was, “Ok, no more running the football. Everything is a pass play” then we would probably have trouble moving onto other rules if every proposal I had was tied to eliminating the running game.

For better or worse, that’s what abortion is to evangelicals.  They (I’m saying they but I would fit in that group) think if we can’t agree on the right to life, then what else is there to talk about?
Exactly.  And their lack of respect for life tends to undermine ALL of their faux bluster about inclusion. 
it is never about inclusion.  It’s about getting their fingers on anything they don’t have.  Give them what they ask for, they just want something else.  Classic Marxism.
for the record- I don’t associate this with other forum members, but one.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 28, 2020, 08:04:45 AM
I'm solidly pro-life.  I believe that abortion is a killing.
But who the president has not moved the needle on abortion as a legal issue or on how many women abort their babies.
Abortion--thankfully--has been going down since the 1990s under pro-life and pro-choice presidents alike.
And justices appointed by ostensibly pro-life Republican presidents have not proven to be reliable opponents of abortion.  Just recently, Kavanaugh voted with the liberals to create a deadlock that left a lower court's pro-abortion ruling stand.
I don't think our POTUS personally cares about abortion, but he knows that his white evangelical base does, so he makes it an issue.  Same reason he held up a Bible in front of the boarded-up church (which I found disgusting).  Same reason he moved the U.S. Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem (which I favored).
I don't think "he'll appoint pro-life judges" is enough of a reason to vote for a scoundrel.
Not to vote for one scoundrel over the other
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 28, 2020, 08:17:09 AM
Okay, so you're retreating to the fact that he wasn't defending neo-Nazis. He was just defending "proud Southerners" who objected to tearing down Confederate statues and renaming a park that was named after the lead general from the losing side.

There have been so many dog whistles I forgot to mention his unbridled support for the symbols of the confederacy--including the flag.

Why would the President Of The United States Of America support the symbols of the CSA so strongly?
Perhaps because they are Americans too. To many times, people forget that even though they may live in a different part of the country, the opinions, lives and traditions of people in the South are somehow inferior to yours. The left has made everything that defines our nation as racist or a "dog whistle". Michelle Obama alluded to all of this when her husband was running for President. She stated:

Quote
"Barack knows that we are going to have to make sacrifices; we are going to have to change our conversation; we're going to have to change our traditions, our history; we're going to have to move into a different place as a nation."
In the opinions of many, removing statues is one way that the left is attempting to "change our history". The fact of the matter is, you can't change history but you can try to rewrite it to comport to ones own ideas. Perhaps if more people would have listened to what the left has been telling us they want to do, more people would have realized it and stood up to it before now. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 28, 2020, 08:18:36 AM
Just to throw out their I am solidly pro-choice and I think efforts to incarcerate women and doctors over abortion are evil.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 28, 2020, 08:22:41 AM
Back to the state government. So in this case the people of the state are not the state, but the politicians are.

We had the 17th amendment chat a while back. And in the most neutral way, it struck me as an interesting brand of elitism. I'm not saying that in terms of bringing any baggage with it. In a lot of decision-making, elitism is a benefit (a person with elite engineering knowledge should be in charge of engineering projects). But when we say, the people who select senators should be state reps and governors rather than the people of a state, we're arguing for elitism.
You do realize that his country was not founded as a Democracy? The founders intentionally set up the government as a Republic for a reason. They knew that a Democracy would collapse upon itself when the people found that they could vote to have the government give them money from the treasury. You do also realize that the members of the State Legislature are themselves voted into office by the people? Getting back to the original intent of the founders is not elitism. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 28, 2020, 08:25:08 AM
You do realize that his country was not founded as a Democracy? The founders intentionally set up the government as a Republic for a reason. 
Make it stop
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 28, 2020, 08:26:20 AM
The House was supposed to be the voice of the people in the Federal gov't while the Senate was to be the voice of the States. Since the passing of the 17th Amendment, the States of ceded more and more authority to the Fed Gov't which has caused the Fed Gov't to expand well beyond what was envisioned. This has also given power to the 2 party system. Instead of Senators being accountable to their states, they have become accountable to their parties. In Ohio, our 2 Senators take their marching orders from Mitch McConnell and Chuck Schumer. If you want to know how they will vote on an issue, ask those 2 individuals. Prior to the 17th, the state legislature held control of the states senators. If they did not keep the states interest in their voting, they would be replaced by the legislature.
States are run by the parties as well.  I really dont think states governments selecting the senators would keep senators from reflecting which party runs the state.  While your goal is good your solution would not achieve it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 28, 2020, 08:37:30 AM
One could logically have a POV that some social "progress" is not progress.  We are now rather accepting of unmarried women getting pregnant, is that social progress?

And by "accepting", I don't just mean it's accepted generally as "not a bad thing", I mean that it is considered very normal and proper.

We might be better off societally if we collectively viewed it as something to avoid.  Our culture at one time looked down on "living on the dole".

But, it's a matter of perspective I suppose.

Anyone who asks hard questions on a message board tends to get derided and "kicked out".  Hard questions need to be asked, in my view, even if, because, they make us uncomfortable or angry.


I may not agree with all of your positions on issues, but I really do admire your common sense and demeanor. Very well stated. :c017: 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 28, 2020, 08:42:37 AM
Make it stop
Make what stop, the Republic? 

No thanks. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 28, 2020, 08:44:17 AM
States are run by the parties as well.  I really dont think states governments selecting the senators would keep senators from reflecting which party runs the state.  While your goal is good your solution would not achieve it
bwarbiany posed a very good analysis of this a few pages back. Perhaps you could read that and give your opinion as he stated it much better than I ever could. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 08:49:09 AM
Our FFs wanted to avoid having political parties.  The notion of course was that we'd vote for someone local that we respected who would then "do the right thing", either as elector or Rep.  That lasted until Washington left office, if that long.

I don't think how we select Senators is really an issue, or at least it's not one where changing the process would make any real difference at this point.

Back in the day, the franchise for who could vote was restricted to those who paid taxes, which generally meant those who owned property (it varied by state who could vote).  Poor folks couldn't vote, poor men that is, generally speaking.  As the FFs were NOT poor, this made sense to them.  Folks who had skin in the game would vote, in effect, if you paid for it, you had a voice.

This was of course viewed as "not democratic".  I think Franklin defined democracy as two wolves and a sheep ... you know the rest.

I became convinced that ANY large human enterprise will be badly flawed, inefficient, rife with corruption and greed, etc.  ANY.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 28, 2020, 08:58:19 AM
No... Respectfully, you missed the point of that discussion.

It's that we are a federal republic, and that each individual state may have desires and incentives that are unique to them as an entity.

One of those desires is that prior to the 17th amendment, to some extent each individual state guarded its autonomy in certain areas. The state legislatures didn't necessarily WANT to cede power to DC. That was true whether it was California or Wyoming or Rhode Island.

Originally the House was to represent the peoples' interests, and the Senate was to represent the states' interests. The 17th Amendment made the Senate just a slightly different version of the House.

The original makeup of the Senate was, IMHO, designed to create one additional brake on power moving from state capitals to DC.
I understood the point. 

Now perhaps the augment is that a certain group of elites, say Toni Atkins and Anthony Rendon can better hold their senators to account than the populace of the state overall. Or perhaps they can at least gum up the federal government better. 

But as you said above, the people and the states apparently have different interests. If the state, in your case California, is not made up of its people but by its state assembly, then that's elitism. And in many cases, elitism is fine, but gotta call a duck a duck.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 28, 2020, 08:58:59 AM
  I think Franklin defined democracy as two wolves and a sheep ... you know the rest.
Refresh my memory
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 09:01:39 AM
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep arguing over what's for dinner.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 28, 2020, 09:02:15 AM
You do realize that his country was not founded as a Democracy? The founders intentionally set up the government as a Republic for a reason. They knew that a Democracy would collapse upon itself when the people found that they could vote to have the government give them money from the treasury. You do also realize that the members of the State Legislature are themselves voted into office by the people? Getting back to the original intent of the founders is not elitism.
The original founders were to a degree elitist, and their very original structure involved several layers of elitism. It's fine to say it.

The argument was if we let the people vote without many layers of betters (elites) it will be madness. That's not truly wrong, but the more layers of betters and to a degree the smaller the franchise, the more elitist. Just the way that word works. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 28, 2020, 09:06:56 AM
Make what stop, the Republic?

No thanks.
It's just my personal pet peeve, because 99% of the time there is no functional difference between a republic and democracy and people say there is mostly as a justification to prevent people from participating.  Carry on, good sir.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 28, 2020, 09:09:28 AM
Exactly.  And their lack of respect for life tends to undermine ALL of their faux bluster about inclusion. 
it is never about inclusion.  It’s about getting their fingers on anything they don’t have.  Give them what they ask for, they just want something else.  Classic Marxism.
for the record- I don’t associate this with other forum members, but one.
Now, now, now, not respecting life is a bipartisan issue, just depends the lens. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 09:12:29 AM
It's just my personal pet peeve, because 99% of the time there is no functional difference between a republic and democracy and people say there is mostly as a justification to prevent people from participating.  Carry on, good sir.
Either there is a difference between the terms, or there is not.  I don't see how terms can mean the same thing 99% of the time and not mean that 1% of the time.

Words have definitions.  It aids in discussion if we don't distort those definitions and become our own lexicographers, like misusing the term violent.

I probably worked around lawyers too long in my career.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 28, 2020, 09:18:48 AM
Either there is a difference between the terms, or there is not.  I don't see how terms can mean the same thing 99% of the time and not mean that 1% of the time.

Words have definitions.  It aids in discussion if we don't distort those definitions and become our own lexicographers, like misusing the term violent.

I probably worked around lawyers too long in my career.
Of course words have definitions.  That's why it's dumb to claim shooting or locking them in a cage someone is actually nonviolent, and also silly to claim we don't live in a democracy because we live in a republic.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 28, 2020, 09:24:21 AM
I probably worked around lawyers too long in my career.
I hope you're in counseling  :party0036:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 28, 2020, 09:27:51 AM
I hope you're in counseling  :party0036:
Getting that wine in one's eyes seems awfully uncomfortable. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 28, 2020, 09:34:59 AM
Of course words have definitions.  That's why it's dumb to claim shooting or locking them in a cage someone is actually nonviolent, and also silly to claim we don't live in a democracy because we live in a republic. 
What should society do with bad guys who are a danger to society?

Serve them tea and cookies and just ask them to stop?

If you want to call it violent to lock somebody up that robs a bank then so be it

they still need to be locked up
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 28, 2020, 09:36:51 AM
Now, now, now, not respecting life is a bipartisan issue, just depends the lens.
No no no no shit. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 09:42:37 AM
There is no definition of the term "violent" that applies to incarceration.

If we just misapply common terms at will, discussion will be difficult.

I may just as well start posting in French.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2020, 09:45:49 AM
Now, now, now, not respecting life is a bipartisan issue, just depends the lens.
another definition issue

when does life begin?


conception?

heart beat?

birth?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 28, 2020, 09:54:46 AM
I'm solidly pro-life.  I believe that abortion is a killing.
But who the president has not moved the needle on abortion as a legal issue or on how many women abort their babies.
Abortion--thankfully--has been going down since the 1990s under pro-life and pro-choice presidents alike.
And justices appointed by ostensibly pro-life Republican presidents have not proven to be reliable opponents of abortion.  Just recently, Kavanaugh voted with the liberals to create a deadlock that left a lower court's pro-abortion ruling stand.
I don't think our POTUS personally cares about abortion, but he knows that his white evangelical base does, so he makes it an issue.  Same reason he held up a Bible in front of the boarded-up church (which I found disgusting).  Same reason he moved the U.S. Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem (which I favored).
I don't think "he'll appoint pro-life judges" is enough of a reason to vote for a scoundrel.
CW, you need a new play.  Your playbook is ineffective my friend.

your now days old diatribe against POTUS is not changing any minds.  You act like him holding a bible is unique to him.  Like no other politicians do and say things politically based lol.  Like You think Biden wearing a mask is because he thinks masks make sense.  Or that a single word that comes out of his mouth are his personal beliefs.  Or the fact that he FINALLY, mildly, denounced the rioting in our cities is because he is against it, and not because his CNN and other consultants warned him that their data suggests this issue is important to many swing voters and is starting to move against him.  Please.  

The playbook of criticism, calling anyone who disagrees a racist, second guessing, obstructing and dividing needs a refresh.  Like,  Coming up with a single position on the issues of the day and how you would handle it.  

Assume your talking to those of us who can’t stand POTUS as your starting point, and tell us why the other side is viable choice. 

I was going to post the dozens of twitter videos from just last night showing more mob violence, attacking law enforcement, etc...but you know it is out there in spades ( its what OAF) and you like to call progress.   Mobs of people surrounding outdoor diners and forcing them through fear to join in the chants of “ white silence is violence” and getting inches from the face of those who don’t comply (without a mask no less) and screaming at the top of your lungs.

and no cop outs here....don’t write off that this is what is going on or I will post the videos, and they are from twitter, not any news agency.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 28, 2020, 09:58:30 AM
What should society do with bad guys who are a danger to society?

Serve them tea and cookies and just ask them to stop?

If you want to call it violent to lock somebody up that robs a bank then so be it

they still need to be locked up
Do you need to lock someone up who sells weed?  Misses a court date? Gets in a fight?  Has a gun in their pocket? What about a gun in their car? Do we need to lock someone up who gets an abortion?  

Anyways, locking someone up is violent. It's also the point - to cause some sort of harm as punishment.  Claiming it's actually nonviolent because it's some sort of state sponsored action goes down roads no one would agree with, which is why I prefer we don't start going down the road at all.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 28, 2020, 09:59:59 AM
There is no definition of the term "violent" that applies to incarceration.

If we just misapply common terms at will, discussion will be difficult.

I may just as well start posting in French.


(https://i.imgur.com/wWY1l7m.png)

Nonviolence on display
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2020, 10:00:09 AM
I've been locked up more than a couple times, nothing violent about it, IMO

everyone was cordial 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 28, 2020, 10:01:17 AM
No no no no shit.
Good, we agree. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 28, 2020, 10:05:04 AM
There is no definition of the term "violent" that applies to incarceration.

If we just misapply common terms at will, discussion will be difficult.

I may just as well start posting in French.


(https://i.imgur.com/tr9H81Q.png)

Look at these chaps in their decidedly nonviolent situation
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 28, 2020, 10:07:40 AM
I've been locked up more than a couple times, nothing violent about it, IMO

everyone was cordial
(https://i.imgur.com/PmuWykI.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 28, 2020, 10:08:11 AM
I've been locked up more than a couple times, nothing violent about it, IMO

everyone was cordial
What'd ya do beat the Sheriff at beer Pong?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2020, 10:08:24 AM
Violence - behavior involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 28, 2020, 10:10:12 AM
Violence - behavior involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.
Prisons never force people - everyone is there voluntarily.  The barbed wire just makes for pretty decorations.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2020, 10:10:37 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/PmuWykI.jpg)
not sure who that is, but I was cordial enough that I didn't need a swat with that cane to get my attention
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 28, 2020, 10:11:01 AM
Badge, the idea of donations is one that is widely shared. However the ability raise donations generally pales in comparison to the ability to tax. That's not universal, but there's a reason that governments rely on taxes and not donations. My favorite example, because I've lived it, was seeing local school advocates bust their buts to raise an astounding $2M to support our schools. Then we passed a tiny property tax increase--an amount far smaller per person than the average school donor was giving--that instantly raised five times that.

That's not to say that I oppose local foundations and philanthropic funding, but it tends to be a good supplement, not the main driver of policy.
You appear to want government to be a part of the solution. I do not. They will F it up, just as they have since 1933.

You want to give them more money (taxes) to waste on bad programs and/or policy.

No.

The solution comes from us.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2020, 10:12:05 AM
Prisons never force people - everyone is there voluntarily.  The barbed wire just makes for pretty decorations.
well, the barbed wire doesn't hurt or damage anyone unless they try to climb over it.

that's their decision
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 10:13:16 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/wWY1l7m.png)

Nonviolence on display

You are confusing VIOLENT with other terms like objectionable, unpleasant, unfair, despicable, a travesty, nasty, horrible, etc.

A thing can be very very very bad and be nonviolent.  Duh.

A car crash is violent.  It might not be horrible.

Going to the hospital might be horrible depending, it's generally not violent.

These are common terms with specific meanings, I find it useful to use them correctly.  Others may not.

Eastern Michigan has an outstanding world class football program.  By outstanding, I mean third rate, and by world class, I mean like in Sudan.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 10:14:29 AM
You appear to want government to be a part of the solution. I do not. 
I for one want government to be part of the solution, absolutely I do.

I observe they often are not.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 10:15:47 AM
One could logically have a POV that some social "progress" is not progress.  We are now rather accepting of unmarried women getting pregnant, is that social progress?


That's a removal of social stigmas, which is a good thing.   And yes, having more freedom happens to include the freedom to make poor choices.  You know this.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 10:16:49 AM
And I'm still waiting to find out more about my own personal life and how I'm racist against my own race....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 10:20:05 AM
That's a removal of social stigmas, which is a good thing.  And yes, having more freedom happens to include the freedom to make poor choices.  You know this. 
Social stigmas also can be useful and desirable things.  We have a social stigma today against child pornography for example (as well as laws).

There are boundaries where freedom ends and protection begins.

And we arguably are better off if the social stigma about getting pregnant at age 15 unmarried were still around.

The elimination of all social stigmas would be horrendous.  Most/many of obey most/many laws because of some social stigma, not because of the police.  I wouldn't rob another person even if I knew I could get away with it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 10:21:54 AM

For better or worse, that’s what abortion is to evangelicals.  They (I’m saying they but I would fit in that group) think if we can’t agree on the right to life, then what else is there to talk about?
Very true, great post.

And their hypocrisy only grows on this issue...they toss all other issues out the window to end abortions (ideally, in their minds), just so those babies born largely to the poor and to brown and black mothers can be ignored.  They're quite literally advocating for growing the impoverished.  

If I took it a step further, it's as if they're trying to create a servant class of American citizens.  You know, to replace those illegal aliens who do the jobs no one else wants.  But that's merely conjecture on my part.  Silly, I'm sure.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 10:22:31 AM
Social stigmas also can be useful and desirable things.  We have a social stigma today against child pornography for example (as well as laws).
LOL, umm, yeah, this undermines your whole post.


If it's that useful, it's a law, buddy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 28, 2020, 10:24:43 AM
Very true, great post.

And their hypocrisy only grows on this issue...they toss all other issues out the window to end abortions (ideally, in their minds), just so those babies born largely to the poor and to brown and black mothers can be ignored.  They're quite literally advocating for growing the impoverished. 

If I took it a step further, it's as if they're trying to create a servant class of American citizens.  You know, to replace those illegal aliens who do the jobs no one else wants.  But that's merely conjecture on my part.  Silly, I'm sure.
Thank you you just answered your own question and prove your racism. Just reread the trash you just wrote.  You just made race the central issue around an issue that has nothing to do with race.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 28, 2020, 10:26:50 AM
You are confusing VIOLENT with other terms like objectionable, unpleasant, unfair, despicable, a travesty, nasty, horrible, etc.

A thing can be very very very bad and be nonviolent.  Duh.

A car crash is violent.  It might not be horrible.

Going to the hospital might be horrible depending, it's generally not violent.

These are common terms with specific meanings, I find it useful to use them correctly.  Others may not.

Eastern Michigan has an outstanding world class football program.  By outstanding, I mean third rate, and by world class, I mean like in Sudan.
No I'm not.  You aren't using your own definition.  

"using or involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something."

Locking someone in a cage with the intent to punish them is violence.  Rape is typically considered violent, although it may not involve any broken bones. Car crashes aren't intentional, though it's pretty violent to be in one.  Having a gun pointed in your face is scary and violent, even if the cop is only "intending" to resolve a situation.  We get into silly things like slavery was nonviolent, the Holocaust was nonviolent, but breaking windows - that's the real violence.  I have to use words correctly.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 10:28:46 AM
LOL, umm, yeah, this undermines your whole post.


If it's that useful, it's a law, buddy.
I cited one pretty clear example where a social stigma prevents me personally from taking malevolent actions.  There are a lot of them, many not codified or not enforceable.  Social stigmas can be useful in societies.  Not all are of course, but some are, that's my point.

In Asian countries, it's a social stigma to walk around without a mask and has been for a long time.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2020, 10:33:03 AM
And I'm still waiting to find out more about my own personal life and how I'm racist against my own race....
everyone is a racist
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 28, 2020, 10:38:07 AM
Reverse racism is real. That's going to be a hurdle to cross when I execute my plan. They will have to trust me. That won't be easy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 28, 2020, 10:52:28 AM
You appear to want government to be a part of the solution. I do not. They will F it up, just as they have since 1933.

You want to give them more money (taxes) to waste on bad programs and/or policy.

No.

The solution comes from us.
I can't figure out how to imbed this, so:
You make me sad. (https://youtu.be/Ja06DJrFe5E)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 10:53:22 AM
One point I keep reminding myself of, nearly all of us want the same things, we just have different ways we think of achieving them.  At times, "we" view another as a, well, bad person, because they have views different from ours (or we didn't understand their point).  It's usually not about the actual goal, it's about how to achieve it, and whether it's achievable, and whether it should be a priority.

I'm sure everyone here would want a clean environment, a safe environment, a happy world, less poverty or no poverty, less crime or no crime, more freedom, more responsibility, etc.  The goals, usually, are the same.

I don't think a person is bad for wanting government to fix something.  I want that myself.  Sometimes the HOWS cause unintended consequences.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2020, 10:59:16 AM
The man who called gunmen to gather on the streets of Kenosha Tuesday night — culminating in the deaths of two people and an injury to a third — says he did so to keep the city safe. Despite the deaths, he believes they made it safer.

Kevin Mathewson is a former Kenosha alder who in June created a Facebook page called “Kenosha Guard — Armed Citizens to Protect our Lives and Property.” On Tuesday, he posted a “call to arms” as a page event.

“Any patriots willing to take up arms and defend out [sic] City tonight from the evil thugs? Nondoubt [sic] they are currently planning on the next part of the City to burn tonight!”

In a subsequent public post, under the identity of the page, Mathewson addressed Kenosha’s police chief, Daniel Miskinis:

“Chief Miskinis, As you know I am the commander of the Kenosha Guard, a local militia. We are mobilizing tonight and have about 3,000 RSVP’s. We have volunteers that will be in Uptown, downtown and at the entrances to other neighborhoods.”


https://wisconsinexaminer.com/2020/08/27/a-call-to-arms-that-filled-kenosha-with-combat-weapons/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=0f0badaf368f51e772a6a1c408b76aca49ae97fb-1598613604-0-AfvFVgv4Wlwsv_NTRUxbsqAniJAeOxhTtLRe4XMc3aH6k7wZFiKTT07iELnKpIKy5MDIzCQeeYdpYmh_RSrnj-g8WYsTHT1BV3O6IJP2KKuixOaLaU-mrmjVeryivUBdL0q0OsYwtjliBc0_x7Llbz8yHq8O8K9YAXyZCJRUnVjGmRy6z3mQTyHs0Jv3rDo16E1GBc8R6UxekGFmcRZJ6dfrmVljFs0y6CYivvHfdDNgHuLrrzZXBSF5-GhZGpxsfO1lbG5Pfc-UW6q2GEW_JpFGxmDhghuDSEYfX8ue5bdJvRLONRNmJfXd5NkeDev6DhWVtvcHWBEPqh7HrQgZCmAxEaaBfYL4oR7NQwUcCpFm (https://wisconsinexaminer.com/2020/08/27/a-call-to-arms-that-filled-kenosha-with-combat-weapons/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=0f0badaf368f51e772a6a1c408b76aca49ae97fb-1598613604-0-AfvFVgv4Wlwsv_NTRUxbsqAniJAeOxhTtLRe4XMc3aH6k7wZFiKTT07iELnKpIKy5MDIzCQeeYdpYmh_RSrnj-g8WYsTHT1BV3O6IJP2KKuixOaLaU-mrmjVeryivUBdL0q0OsYwtjliBc0_x7Llbz8yHq8O8K9YAXyZCJRUnVjGmRy6z3mQTyHs0Jv3rDo16E1GBc8R6UxekGFmcRZJ6dfrmVljFs0y6CYivvHfdDNgHuLrrzZXBSF5-GhZGpxsfO1lbG5Pfc-UW6q2GEW_JpFGxmDhghuDSEYfX8ue5bdJvRLONRNmJfXd5NkeDev6DhWVtvcHWBEPqh7HrQgZCmAxEaaBfYL4oR7NQwUcCpFm)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 28, 2020, 11:07:31 AM
I can't figure out how to imbed this, so:
You make me sad. (https://youtu.be/Ja06DJrFe5E)
One of my top 5 of all time
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 28, 2020, 11:28:38 AM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDB5gbtaEQ

This is my favorite and appropriate for the times.  “ I’d like to have an argument“
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 28, 2020, 11:31:48 AM
Classic
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 28, 2020, 11:47:27 AM
Perhaps because they are Americans too. To many times, people forget that even though they may live in a different part of the country, the opinions, lives and traditions of people in the South are somehow inferior to yours. The left has made everything that defines our nation as racist or a "dog whistle". Michelle Obama alluded to all of this when her husband was running for President. She stated:

In the opinions of many, removing statues is one way that the left is attempting to "change our history". The fact of the matter is, you can't change history but you can try to rewrite it to comport to ones own ideas. Perhaps if more people would have listened to what the left has been telling us they want to do, more people would have realized it and stood up to it before now.
I think it's been pointed out here, but much of what has become the South's "tradition" was a concerted effort to rewrite history to make the Civil War not about trying to keep the institution of slavery but taking some heroic stand for autonomy and state's rights. 

And has been pointed out here, the history of most of those statues is that they were not put up during the confederacy, they were put up 30ish years later after reconstruction when free blacks were getting too "uppity" and to remind them of their place--below Southern whites.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/07/01/why-do-people-believe-myths-about-the-confederacy-because-our-textbooks-and-monuments-are-wrong/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/07/01/why-do-people-believe-myths-about-the-confederacy-because-our-textbooks-and-monuments-are-wrong/)

History was changed to make the Confederacy about something that it wasn't about in 1860. And now when we try to point that out, we're the bad guys? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 28, 2020, 11:51:47 AM
I think it's been pointed out here, but much of what has become the South's "tradition" was a concerted effort to rewrite history to make the Civil War not about trying to keep the institution of slavery but taking some heroic stand for autonomy and state's rights.

And has been pointed out here, the history of most of those statues is that they were not put up during the confederacy, they were put up 30ish years later after reconstruction when free blacks were getting too "uppity" and to remind them of their place--below Southern whites.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/07/01/why-do-people-believe-myths-about-the-confederacy-because-our-textbooks-and-monuments-are-wrong/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/07/01/why-do-people-believe-myths-about-the-confederacy-because-our-textbooks-and-monuments-are-wrong/)

History was changed to make the Confederacy about something that it wasn't about in 1860. And now when we try to point that out, we're the bad guys?
I dont think youre the bad guys I just think youre wasting my time

Lets go forward not backward

who really cares what happened 150 years ago

I care about today
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 28, 2020, 12:00:03 PM
I understood the point.

Now perhaps the augment is that a certain group of elites, say Toni Atkins and Anthony Rendon can better hold their senators to account than the populace of the state overall. Or perhaps they can at least gum up the federal government better.

But as you said above, the people and the states apparently have different interests. If the state, in your case California, is not made up of its people but by its state assembly, then that's elitism. And in many cases, elitism is fine, but gotta call a duck a duck.
So let's make a thought experiment. California wants, for example, marijuana legalization. 

If that is decided on a state-by-state basis rather than a national basis, Californians have more agency as to whether marijuana would be legal IN CALIFORNIA if that power is held in Sacramento rather than Washington DC. If they want something, they have to convince a majority of 40M Californians of their desire, not 330M Americans. 

In our current system, if 21M Californians want marijuana to be legal in California, they can't do it because marijuana is illegal at the federal level. (Admittedly it's a bad example because California *has* "legal" marijuana, but it's not really legal. California just doesn't enforce federal marijuana law and the federal government has chosen not to either.)

That's why I'm saying that state legislatures guarded against ceding power to Washington DC, and why "states" have at times different interests than "people". Because if California has to balance its desires against all the other states, then it has less autonomy to make its own decisions.

It's why there is so much antipathy in rural states--because today they feel like Californians and New Yorkers are telling them what to do. And it's why Californians and New Yorkers are so offended by the "anti-democratic" Senate and electoral college, because rural states are a brake on them getting what they want. 

Prior to the 17th Amendment, more power was in state capitals and less in Washington DC, which meant that people in California could have things one way while people in Montana could have them another. That wasn't always a good thing, i.e. if one state chose to restrict its peoples rights it's wrong. But by having more power in state capitals, it actually gave the people of those states more control over the policy decisions controlling their lives. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 28, 2020, 12:07:21 PM
I can't figure out how to imbed this, so:
You make me sad. (https://youtu.be/Ja06DJrFe5E)
How come I make you sad? I'd wager my entire portfolio on US doing a better job than our government has.

The three of us Badgers would make a great team.

We will need one Buckeye, to keep us in check, and balanced.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 28, 2020, 12:16:33 PM
And we arguably are better off if the social stigma about getting pregnant at age 15 unmarried were still around.
There it is. You just committed what @CWSooner (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1544) calls the "motte and bailey" logical fallacy.

Your first point was about unmarried women having babies. When challenged, it became teen pregnancy. 

But you can have a social stigma against people who can't provide for their babies--and for whom it will derail their future life possibilities--getting pregnant, without having a social stigma against "unmarried women having babies."

Someone of an appropriate age who has their sh!t together, can provide for herself and her baby, and determines that she wants to be a mother but doesn't necessarily want a romantic partner, should be free to make that choice without stigma. I personally think it's a less optimal solution than having two loving and supportive parents, but it's probably a better option than her getting into a bad marriage with a man she hates just to have a baby.

I can support that without being forced into being supportive a 15 year old who gets pregnant because she believed some jackass boy who told her pulling out was an effective method of birth control and now she's stuck with a kid. 

There should be a social stigma against that. And guess what... THERE STILL IS!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 28, 2020, 12:22:00 PM
In Asian countries, it's a social stigma to walk around without a mask and has been for a long time.
That's not true. It's more that there's absence of any social stigma against mask-wearing. 

I'm not the most well-traveled person in the world, but I've been to Taipei, Shanghai, Shenzhen, Kuala Lumpur and Bangkok. In all of those places, the majority of people were unmasked. As a traveler, there was no stigma against me walking around maskless. 

Here in the US, prior to COVID, someone walking around with a mask would generate a "wtf?" response in the minds of most passersby. Because here, it was incredibly uncommon.

But it's a step too far to say that in Asian countries there is a stigma against going maskless. Because while it was a commonplace behavior, it wasn't by far the majority of people in society doing it.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2020, 12:26:43 PM
 I'd wager my entire portfolio on US doing a better job than our government has.

absolutely


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 28, 2020, 12:30:10 PM
I dont think youre the bad guys I just think youre wasting my time

Lets go forward not backward

who really cares what happened 150 years ago

I care about today
The people wanting to take down those statues and criticizing displays of the confederate flag care about today as well. America is a great country, and they say that to continue celebrating the misdeeds of people who would have left this wonderful country over slavery and racism is just a way to continue the wounds created by slavery and racism. 

Make no mistake, statues are intended to celebrate or revere someone or something, and in this case it was a war of secession fought over America's greatest sin. Continuing to wave the Confederate flag celebrates the Confederacy. 

It's the people who demand those statues stand, and to continue waving the flag, are the ones who apparently care about bringing the past forward to today. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 12:30:50 PM
I should have said in some Asian countries.  I'm told in Hong Kong for example being out in public sans mask is very bad.

I don't think there is very much social stigma today about an unmarried women of whatever age becoming pregnant.

And if the example is bad, my point simply is that some social stigmas may be to the advantage of society in general.

There is in most places "social stigma" against driving at the speed limit in the left lane, I think.  It usually generates angry reactions from other drivers.

My ex wife used to do that, constantly.  I couldn't let her drive.



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 28, 2020, 12:34:20 PM
How come I make you sad? I'd wager my entire portfolio on US doing a better job than our government has.

The three of us Badgers would make a great team.

We will need one Buckeye, to keep us in check, and balanced.
I am in if wanted.

I have mentored young black men through big Brothers programs.

I have started bank at school programs in minority communities through work.

I have worked with small businesses in the minority communities through Junior achievement.

I am the executive sponsor of our employee LGBTQ empowerment group

I give 4 times the requested amount of my pay- equally split between battered women, seniors who need assistance and the Humane Society.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 28, 2020, 12:39:59 PM
You're in.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 28, 2020, 12:42:07 PM
The people wanting to take down those statues and criticizing displays of the confederate flag care about today as well. America is a great country, and they say that to continue celebrating the misdeeds of people who would have left this wonderful country over slavery and racism is just a way to continue the wounds created by slavery and racism.

Make no mistake, statues are intended to celebrate or revere someone or something, and in this case it was a war of secession fought over America's greatest sin. Continuing to wave the Confederate flag celebrates the Confederacy.

It's the people who demand those statues stand, and to continue waving the flag, are the ones who apparently care about bringing the past forward to today.
and when is enough enough

we never seem to get there

the people taking down the statues today will want more and more cause we just stand aside and let them take it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 28, 2020, 12:44:16 PM
The Wisconsin governor finally visited Kenosha yesterday. I guess he finally felt safe in doing so, now that he finally allowed the Feds to help. He could have that on Monday. Nobody would be dead. The city wouldn't have burned like it did. I might still be there.

F'ing clown.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2020, 01:02:39 PM
your government at work
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 28, 2020, 01:04:57 PM
Which is why we, not they, are the solution.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 28, 2020, 01:14:56 PM
your dem government at work
FIFY
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 28, 2020, 01:19:42 PM
and when is enough enough

we never seem to get there

the people taking down the statues today will want more and more cause we just stand aside and let them take it
So we should do nothing? 

The only defense we have for keeping up statues that symbolize slavery and racism is because if we take them down, people we don't like will "win"?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2020, 01:21:08 PM
FIFY
all government


both sides, all sides

corrupt, wasteful, inefficient, slackers
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 28, 2020, 01:40:43 PM
all government


both sides, all sides

corrupt, wasteful, inefficient, slackers
Hey its the blue states that have a problem with putting down the rioters

The red states have occasional flareups but nothing like the dems

they want riots and encourage them in hopes it will cause a Trump defeat

shameful 

watch how fast these blue governors jump all over rioters after the election
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 28, 2020, 01:53:31 PM
How come I make you sad? I'd wager my entire portfolio on US doing a better job than our government has.

The three of us Badgers would make a great team.

We will need one Buckeye, to keep us in check, and balanced.
Badge, I'm all for concerted private action to augment the government, but the government has to provide certain services. Private road building, policing, utility management, food regulation, stock regulation, etc., aren't reasonable solutions.

What you're suggesting sounds an awful lot like unwinding the American social safety net, so no more Social Security, Medicare, unemployment insurance, food stamps, etc. Respectfully, we don't live in an agrarian society. In the modern world, all of those things are a necessity in one way or another--unless you want to live in Somalia, which really isn't a modern society.

You're right that government intervention will never perfectly fit every situation, but that's true of any intervention, even the enforcement of criminal laws, but the government has proven much more efficient, and frankly necessary, for many of these tasks. 

The government should stay out of a lot of things, but removing social programs seems to me to be a fools errand. 

To me, the key isn't doing away with government intervention, it's matching up government intervention with private investment, even at the welfare level. Again, to my means testing point, if someone has to invest something of their own, even if its a relatively small amount, they will value what they get more than if it is free. Free has lots of problems. 

Even things like the HUD program that you seem to be so opposed to aren't necessarily bad because they have had some bad impacts. Yes, redlining was overtly racist and the government bears responsibility for that. Nonetheless, a great deal of private wealth was built in this country because of HUD intervention (if anything, redlining limited that growth by denying it to certain classes of people, working contrary to the economic goals of the program). It didn't make people millionaires, but it did help establish a healthy middle class. From a Keynesian perspective, that government intervention strengthened private wealth and made for stronger, more self sufficient citizens.

This concept that Reagan championed, fear of, "I'm the government and I'm here to help," is overblown. Realistically, at a local level, if you were to remove the family services departments, health departments (including mental health), the utilities, public works, parks, education, (I presume you wouldn't advocate privatizing policing and fire services), you would create havoc, and not one where benevolent wealthy people would step in to save everyone else. World history simply doesn't make that a realistic goal.

However, tying government assistance to some kind of investment from the person/people being assisted, seems like a good idea, because it will increase the private ownership of the outcome.

To my mind, the tax code requires a fair amount of reworking because right now it values wealth over work, i.e., the wealthier you are, the more opportunity you have to increase your wealth simply by being wealthy, and pay lower taxes on that increase in wealth than working stiffs pay on showing up to do their job every day. That's perverse. But those incentives aren't without reason--some of those reasons are valid ones. So this isn't an easy, "just simplify the tax code" issue. Incentives matter, and the government has to weigh those incentives. Taxing and spending are the government's primary way to do so.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2020, 02:02:24 PM
Hey its the blue states that have a problem with putting down the rioters

The red states have occasional flareups but nothing like the dems

they want riots and encourage them in hopes it will cause a Trump defeat

shameful

watch how fast these blue governors jump all over rioters after the election
I'd guess in Red states, the way they deal with protests and riots is corrupt, wasteful, inefficient, slackers

I'm hoping the riots go away after the election
if not they need to be dealt with swiftly
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 28, 2020, 02:09:51 PM
I'd guess in Red states, the way they deal with protests and riots is corrupt, wasteful, inefficient, slackers

I'm hoping the riots go away after the election
if not they need to be dealt with swiftly
Houston had some riots at the start

the first night the HPD arrested 100 and the 2nd night they arrested about 200

amazingly the riots kinda stopped and only peaceful protests remained

oh yes there was none of this crap about catch and release for the arrested rioters
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 28, 2020, 02:09:59 PM
Hey its the blue states that have a problem with putting down the rioters

The red states have occasional flareups but nothing like the dems

they want riots and encourage them in hopes it will cause a Trump defeat

shameful

watch how fast these blue governors jump all over rioters after the election
It makes me sad to know that you think this. I don't. I suppose it goes to the different realities that Bwar suggested above. Unfortunate, to say the least. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 02:12:20 PM
To my mind, the tax code requires a fair amount of reworking because right now it values wealth over work, i.e., the wealthier you are, the more opportunity you have to increase your wealth simply by being wealthy, and pay lower taxes on that increase in wealth than working stiffs pay on showing up to do their job every day. That's perverse. But those incentives aren't without reason--some of those reasons are valid ones. So this isn't an easy, "just simplify the tax code" issue. Incentives matter, and the government has to weigh those incentives. Taxing and spending are the government's primary way to do so.
I agree this is an issue, though I benefit from it handsomely.  Folks don't understand the tax code, often as not, so many don't understand marginal income tax brackets and how they work, FICA taxes, etc.  They don't care to know I guess.  They think the wealthy have fancy CPAs to figure out all the angles that they can't figure out.  The angles usually are pretty obvious, but if you're a working stuff they simply are not available to you.  The distinction between earned and unearned income is remarkable.

My quirky definition of "wealthy" is a person who need no income.  Go ahead, raise my income taxes, if I don't need income .... meh.  (I would go to munis.)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 28, 2020, 02:19:30 PM
It makes me sad to know that you think this. I don't. I suppose it goes to the different realities that Bwar suggested above. Unfortunate, to say the least.
well either my theory is right or they are complete idiots so I was just giving them the benefit of the doubt
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 28, 2020, 02:23:14 PM
Or they are weighing the risk/benefit of sending armed agents of the state to put down assemblies of people expressing their anger and frustration at social ills differently than you are. It's not simply a question of stopping the rioting. It's a question of what those confrontations look like. As an example, by all accounts, the presence of federal agents in Portland made things worse, not better.

The National Guard was sent to Kent State. How is that remembered?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 28, 2020, 02:23:20 PM
Badge, I'm all for concerted private action to augment the government, but the government has to provide certain services. Private road building, policing, utility management, food regulation, stock regulation, etc., aren't reasonable solutions.

What you're suggesting sounds an awful lot like unwinding the American social safety net, so no more Social Security, Medicare, unemployment insurance, food stamps, etc. Respectfully, we don't live in an agrarian society. In the modern world, all of those things are a necessity in one way or another--unless you want to live in Somalia, which really isn't a modern society.

You're right that government intervention will never perfectly fit every situation, but that's true of any intervention, even the enforcement of criminal laws, but the government has proven much more efficient, and frankly necessary, for many of these tasks.

The government should stay out of a lot of things, but removing social programs seems to me to be a fools errand.

To me, the key isn't doing away with government intervention, it's matching up government intervention with private investment, even at the welfare level. Again, to my means testing point, if someone has to invest something of their own, even if its a relatively small amount, they will value what they get more than if it is free. Free has lots of problems.

Even things like the HUD program that you seem to be so opposed to aren't necessarily bad because they have had some bad impacts. Yes, redlining was overtly racist and the government bears responsibility for that. Nonetheless, a great deal of private wealth was built in this country because of HUD intervention (if anything, redlining limited that growth by denying it to certain classes of people, working contrary to the economic goals of the program). It didn't make people millionaires, but it did help establish a healthy middle class. From a Keynesian perspective, that government intervention strengthened private wealth and made for stronger, more self sufficient citizens.

This concept that Reagan championed, fear of, "I'm the government and I'm here to help," is overblown. Realistically, at a local level, if you were to remove the family services departments, health departments (including mental health), the utilities, public works, parks, education, (I presume you wouldn't advocate privatizing policing and fire services), you would create havoc, and not one where benevolent wealthy people would step in to save everyone else. World history simply doesn't make that a realistic goal.

However, tying government assistance to some kind of investment from the person/people being assisted, seems like a good idea, because it will increase the private ownership of the outcome.

To my mind, the tax code requires a fair amount of reworking because right now it values wealth over work, i.e., the wealthier you are, the more opportunity you have to increase your wealth simply by being wealthy, and pay lower taxes on that increase in wealth than working stiffs pay on showing up to do their job every day. That's perverse. But those incentives aren't without reason--some of those reasons are valid ones. So this isn't an easy, "just simplify the tax code" issue. Incentives matter, and the government has to weigh those incentives. Taxing and spending are the government's primary way to do so.
You're reading me wrong here my friend. I will say this though. Private developers build roads and streets and parks all the time, and turn them over to government or utility companies upon acceptance of the improvements.

The key things municipalities provide must stay. Police, Fire, Public Works. I would be in favor of dumping things like DCFS, because they are prime examples of government failure.

That can be privatized.  So can housing.

Social Security and Medicare stay.

Higher education funding could be accomplished using the model that I helped make happen at Harper College in Palatine. We need people getting degrees or certificates that make them useful. One doesn't have to go to Northwestern to get a useful degree - one which provides the opportunity to earn a living wage. The entire higher education ideal is broken in this country. We don't need art history majors. We need manufacturing degrees.

K-12 is also a mess. There are too many districts and too many administrators - all sucking the taxpayer tit. Someone else (not me) needs to fix that from top to bottom. I would proposed eliminating a cabinet position, to start.

What I'm talking about is having private contractor make improvements, so that businesses are attracted to come, and builders are attracted to build. I (and others like me) would donate my time to design the projects. I've worked on many private land assemblage projects. It would need to be done block by block. In places like Detroit, that's not hard. The land is dirt cheap (literally).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 02:27:49 PM
Can anyone explain to me what the Dept. of Education does?

I asked our head of the Board of Ed once, and he shrugged and said "They give us some grant money, but I'm sure it's worth all the paperwork."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 28, 2020, 02:29:52 PM
DCFS, as in Department of Child and Family Services? 

I'm curious, what makes it a failure, and what would make it (or its private replacement) a success?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 28, 2020, 02:31:12 PM
Or they are weighing the risk/benefit of sending armed agents of the state to put down assemblies of people expressing their anger and frustration at social ills differently than you are. It's not simply a question of stopping the rioting. It's a question of what those confrontations look like. As an example, by all accounts, the presence of federal agents in Portland made things worse, not better.

The National Guard was sent to Kent State. How is that remembered?
It's working in Kenosha, so far. The past two nights have been peaceful. The protestors leave the area before the curfew sets in. Those who stay out are being arrested. The Marshalls ain't playing.

The show of force is working.


https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/bradford-high-school-serving-as-staging-area-for-police-national-guard/article_72a436aa-b2b1-5ad7-a982-6b5b188338d9.html#tracking-source=home-trending


(https://i.imgur.com/zqprqkS.jpg) (https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/bradford-high-school-serving-as-staging-area-for-police-national-guard/article_72a436aa-b2b1-5ad7-a982-6b5b188338d9.html#tracking-source=home-trending)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 28, 2020, 02:34:39 PM
Can anyone explain to me what the Dept. of Education does?

I asked our head of the Board of Ed once, and he shrugged and said "They give us some grant money, but I'm sure it's worth all the paperwork."
My understanding is the three primary things it does are (1) distribute funding for special education services; (2) distribute funding for various social welfare things, primarily food for the poor; and (3) manage the process for federally backed higher education loans and grants. I'm not an expert, but I think those are the three big ones (though Google could probably tell me a lot more).

As with any distribution of government funding, the department sets and enforces rules, consistent with executive and Congressional oversight, that recipients of such funding must follow to receive said funding. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 28, 2020, 02:36:45 PM
DCFS, as in Department of Child and Family Services?

I'm curious, what makes it a failure, and what would make it (or its private replacement) a success?
Yes.

The vast majority employees of DCFS are AFSME hacks and don't give a shit about their jobs. They fail kids every day, and are rarely held accountable (union protection). Turning this into a private endeavor, or getting AFSME the hell out, would be better for the kids.

Probably 100 pages back I proposed professional education and licensing for police, and no unions. No immunity.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 28, 2020, 02:39:18 PM
It's working in Kenosha, so far. The past two nights have been peaceful. The protestors leave the area before the curfew sets in. Those who stay out are being arrested. The Marshalls ain't playing.

The show of force is working.


https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/bradford-high-school-serving-as-staging-area-for-police-national-guard/article_72a436aa-b2b1-5ad7-a982-6b5b188338d9.html#tracking-source=home-trending


(https://i.imgur.com/zqprqkS.jpg) (https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/bradford-high-school-serving-as-staging-area-for-police-national-guard/article_72a436aa-b2b1-5ad7-a982-6b5b188338d9.html#tracking-source=home-trending)
And that's a good thing. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 28, 2020, 02:46:25 PM
Yes.

The vast majority employees of DCFS are AFSME hacks and don't give a shit about their jobs. They fail kids every day, and are rarely held accountable (union protection). Turning this into a private endeavor, or getting AFSME the hell out, would be better for the kids.

Probably 100 pages back I proposed professional education and licensing for police, and no unions. No immunity.
I don't have any experience with Chicago-land, but I have had enough personal interactions with our equivalent here to know that the overwhelming majority of our folks are working really hard to do the right thing, despite being understaffed and under resourced, and to deal with problems that are among the most difficult to solve, i.e., helping fix broken families.

The immunity question for police is a difficult one for me. The way qualified immunity has worked to date, it has shielded a lot of people from liability they should have had. However, simply saying there is no immunity would open police up to an endless stream of lawsuits every time someone got their feelings hurt. I would expect lawsuits for essentially every forcible arrest, and frankly a lot more than just that.

As is pretty clear at this point, I'm not a full-throated, the police do no wrong guy. But I do know something about BS lawsuits, and while I think qualified immunity should be re-looked, I don't think it should be open season on cops for doing their jobs.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 28, 2020, 02:46:44 PM
Or they are weighing the risk/benefit of sending armed agents of the state to put down assemblies of people expressing their anger and frustration at social ills differently than you are. It's not simply a question of stopping the rioting. It's a question of what those confrontations look like. As an example, by all accounts, the presence of federal agents in Portland made things worse, not better.

The National Guard was sent to Kent State. How is that remembered?
well with that attitude you should run for office of some blue state

those poor small business owners are having their guts ripped out just because the governor doesnt have the balls to stop the violence

what kind of risk benefit is there when citizens feel the need to take up arms and confront the rioters cause the police arent allowed to
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 28, 2020, 02:47:58 PM
I hope it holds up. Sounds like there are many more rioters coming in this weekend from all over. Last evening a load of people were arrested at a gas station. They were filling gas cans, and were found to have helmets, body armor and other items - including guns and drugs. 

Two pickup trucks filled with gas cans were found in the marina parking lot, just before dark.

The scanner if off line right now. I'm guessing they don't want the thugs to know where they are or what they are doing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2020, 02:48:37 PM
Or they are weighing the risk/benefit of sending armed agents of the state to put down assemblies of people expressing their anger and frustration at social ills differently than you are. It's not simply a question of stopping the rioting. It's a question of what those confrontations look like. As an example, by all accounts, the presence of federal agents in Portland made things worse, not better.

The National Guard was sent to Kent State. How is that remembered?
so, you're implying the mayor of Portland handled the situation properly?

would you support that scenario in your city or town or county? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 28, 2020, 02:52:39 PM
Badge just said that in Kenosha the governor has done what you wanted. Not when you thought he should have, but he did it. That's not consistent with, "they would prefer to watch things burn." 

I won't likely run for office, but my wife will. She has had to deal with civil unrest and protests in our city. Unsurprisingly, the action this city took (and we're a small city, even compared to Kenosha) was criticized from the left and the right, so I guess she got it correct. 

This isn't an all or nothing proposition. Particularly in a country in which the Constitution strongly protects the right to protest, the government's response needs to be calculated. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2020, 02:53:50 PM
Badge just said that in Kenosha the governor has done what you wanted. Not when you thought he should have, but he did it. That's not consistent with, "they would prefer to watch things burn."

 
they watched a car lot burn
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2020, 02:55:04 PM
This isn't an all or nothing proposition. Particularly in a country in which the Constitution strongly protects the right to protest, the government's response needs to be calculated.
as most of us agreed
you have a right to protest

you do not have the right to destroy property and terrorize citizens
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 28, 2020, 02:57:37 PM
Badge just said that in Kenosha the governor has done what you wanted. Not when you thought he should have, but he did it. That's not consistent with, "they would prefer to watch things burn."

I won't likely run for office, but my wife will. She has had to deal with civil unrest and protests in our city. Unsurprisingly, the action this city took (and we're a small city, even compared to Kenosha) was criticized from the left and the right, so I guess she got it correct.

This isn't an all or nothing proposition. Particularly in a country in which the Constitution strongly protects the right to protest, the government's response needs to be calculated.
He didn't want to do it. He had no choice but to succumb to the intense pressure being placed upon him.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 02:58:00 PM
I think we all agree protest (peaceful) is fine and protected.  Looting/rioting/attacking others, arson is not.

If the latter starts up, it gets worse and worse unless it is nipped .... in the bud.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 28, 2020, 02:58:18 PM
Badge just said that in Kenosha the governor has done what you wanted. Not when you thought he should have, but he did it. That's not consistent with, "they would prefer to watch things burn."

I won't likely run for office, but my wife will. She has had to deal with civil unrest and protests in our city. Unsurprisingly, the action this city took (and we're a small city, even compared to Kenosha) was criticized from the left and the right, so I guess she got it correct.

This isn't an all or nothing proposition. Particularly in a country in which the Constitution strongly protects the right to protest, the government's response needs to be calculated.
first of all protesting has nothing to do with this
in fact I dont think its the protesters doing most of the rioting

yes the governor finally did his job after several people died

to me its simple if you protest peacefully then your rights should be protected but if you destroy property you give up your protected right to protest
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 28, 2020, 03:02:10 PM
I think we all agree protest (peaceful) is fine and protected.  Looting/rioting/attacking others, arson is not.

If the latter starts up, it gets worse and worse unless it is nipped .... in the bud.


sorry couldnt resist 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU5iLiEySyk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU5iLiEySyk)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 28, 2020, 03:04:19 PM
so, you're implying the mayor of Portland handled the situation properly?

would you support that scenario in your city or town or county?
I don't know. I do know that the feds show of force and wide-spread arrests made things worse. 

There was a pretty good piece this morning, I think, in the Washington Post about the escalating confrontations at protests. Counter protesting and the violence between those groups is becoming a larger danger. That's a problem. One of the things causing that is both sides escalating their name calling and justifying the righteousness of their response. BLM protesters are not domestic terrorists, and suggesting that ordinary citizens have a patriotic duty to engage in armed confrontation is irresponsible, and is making things worse. 

Generally speaking, denying, intimidating, or openly trying to crush a protest movement doesn't reduce the anger of that movement. However, rioting and property damage aren't ok. Mayors, police departments, and governors make decisions all the time about how to address assemblies to (1) prevent rioting and property damage, and (2) not make things worse. Miscalulating--as it seems happened in Kenosha--doesn't show bad faith. Mayors, police departments, and governors all over the country have made those same calculations, and in most cases there hasn't been violence and property damage. And just because there has been some, in places like Portland and Kenosha, doesn't mean that a heavier government hand would have resulted in a better outcome. As we saw in Portland, a heavier government hand resulted in a worse outcome. In Kenosha, it appears that more was better. I don't think anyone is happy with how that has gone.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 28, 2020, 03:05:02 PM
I truly fear for Kenosha, and cry.

Most of the dock we are on here in far NE Illinois (dammit, I'm back) are from Southport Marina in Kenosha. About half of them are saying they aren't going back this year, or next. 

Right now the issue is safety. For next year, the issue is not having anything to do in town. 

There is nothing left.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 28, 2020, 03:05:39 PM
While we are suspending rights, could Kenosha declare a gun free zone and arrest anyone with a gun?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 03:08:24 PM
and when is enough enough

we never seem to get there

the people taking down the statues today will want more and more cause we just stand aside and let them take it
You:  Enough with the taking down of statues!
Them:  Enough with cops murdering us!


Open your eyes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 28, 2020, 03:09:18 PM
While we are suspending rights, could Kenosha declare a gun free zone and arrest anyone with a gun?
what rights have been suspended

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2020, 03:09:44 PM
While we are suspending rights, could Kenosha declare a gun free zone and arrest anyone with a gun?
yes, that would be fine with me, even encouraged
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 28, 2020, 03:10:35 PM
You:  Enough with the taking down of statues!
Them:  Enough with cops murdering us!


Open your eyes.
OAM go back to doing whatever it is you do

the grownups are talking
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2020, 03:10:45 PM
You:  Enough with the taking down of statues!
Them:  Enough with cops murdering us!


Open your eyes.
taking down statues will not keep cops from murdering folks
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2020, 03:11:22 PM
what rights have been suspended


the right to protest after 10pm
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 03:12:04 PM
Can anyone explain to me what the Dept. of Education does?

I asked our head of the Board of Ed once, and he shrugged and said "They give us some grant money, but I'm sure it's worth all the paperwork."
Under DeVos, it's doing it's best to funnel money to private schools and pseudo-private schools (charters).  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 03:12:26 PM
OAM go back to doing whatever it is you do

the grownups are talking
:s_laugh:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 03:13:00 PM
taking down statues will not keep cops from murdering folks
How did you get that from what I posted?   We're not even speaking the same language anymore.  Jesus.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 03:14:38 PM
as most of us agreed
you have a right to protest

you do not have the right to destroy property and terrorize citizens
Everyone agrees with this.  Even the rioters/looters agree with this, which is why what they're doing is a crime and them criminals.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 28, 2020, 03:14:50 PM
the right to protest after 10pm
the right to protest was not taken away it was forfeited

that right ends with rioting
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 28, 2020, 03:15:09 PM
While we are suspending rights, could Kenosha declare a gun free zone and arrest anyone with a gun?
What rights are being suspended? This is confusing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2020, 03:18:00 PM
How did you get that from what I posted?  We're not even speaking the same language anymore.  Jesus.
you are the one that put murder and statues in the same post
are they somehow connected?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 28, 2020, 03:21:43 PM
you are the one that put murder and statues in the same post
are they somehow connected?
OAM comes with a manual

you need to read it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 03:38:15 PM
Everyone agrees with this.  Even the rioters/looters agree with this, which is why what they're doing is a crime and them criminals.
Some looters claim it is their right to loot.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 28, 2020, 03:41:11 PM
Some looters claim it is their right to loot. 
They also claim that the businesses have insurance.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 28, 2020, 04:29:00 PM
I dont think Federal Officers are making it worse

thank the Lord we have a Pres who isnt afraid to stand up to these thugs

https://thepostmillennial.com/portlands-riot-kitchen-arrested-in-kenosha-wisc-while-filling-large-gas-canisters (https://thepostmillennial.com/portlands-riot-kitchen-arrested-in-kenosha-wisc-while-filling-large-gas-canisters)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 28, 2020, 04:32:59 PM
Very true, great post.

And their hypocrisy only grows on this issue...they toss all other issues out the window to end abortions (ideally, in their minds), just so those babies born largely to the poor and to brown and black mothers can be ignored.  They're quite literally advocating for growing the impoverished. 

If I took it a step further, it's as if they're trying to create a servant class of American citizens.  You know, to replace those illegal aliens who do the jobs no one else wants.  But that's merely conjecture on my part.  Silly, I'm sure.
I have to admit this take left me a little wide eyed.  So these babies being born to brown and black mothers are being largely ignored?  Am I interpreting that correctly?

And then you speculate that evangelicals may be pro-life to keep a constant serving class available to them. You know that a lot of them are the serving class, right?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2020, 04:40:46 PM
Some looters claim it is their right to loot. 
some looters aren't the smartest guys in the street
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 28, 2020, 05:52:29 PM
Kenosha police too the scanner offline. I guess they don't want the thugs to know what they are up to?? Why else would they take it down?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 28, 2020, 06:03:03 PM
Kenosha police too the scanner offline. I guess they don't want the thugs to know what they are up to?? Why else would they take it down?
Maybe media? Maybe folks who think they're their to help? (if they count in thugs, ignore that last part)

Maybe they're worried about nosy message boarders :96:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 28, 2020, 06:03:47 PM
Kenosha police too the scanner offline. I guess they don't want the thugs to know what they are up to?? Why else would they take it down?
The bad guys are well funded and well organized. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 28, 2020, 06:08:40 PM
I have to admit this take left me a little wide eyed.  So these babies being born to brown and black mothers are being largely ignored?  Am I interpreting that correctly?

And then you speculate that evangelicals may be pro-life to keep a constant serving class available to them. You know that a lot of them are the serving class, right?
Ya if anyone else but Sponge Bob Smear Pants said That I'd be shocked.He should take it a step further  - to a rubber room or off a cliff.That's bad seriously how dumb can one man be - those poor kids on the reservation
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 06:14:04 PM
you are the one that put murder and statues in the same post
are they somehow connected?
The chasm of importance between them was the point.  Lost.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 06:15:33 PM
Ya if anyone else but Sponge Bob Smear Pants said That I'd be shocked.He should take it a step further  - to a rubber room or off a cliff.That's bad seriously how dumb can one man be - those poor kids on the reservation
Keep this shit up....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 06:16:21 PM
And then you speculate that evangelicals may be pro-life to keep a constant serving class available to them. You know that a lot of them are the serving class, right?
Not if they're the right color.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 06:17:58 PM
Some looters claim it is their right to loot. 
Who?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 28, 2020, 06:18:15 PM
Keep this shit up....
Plan on it Troll - I should report your sorry ass to the Arizona Board of Education
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 06:19:31 PM
I dont think Federal Officers are making it worse

thank the Lord we have a Pres who isnt afraid to stand up to these thugs

https://thepostmillennial.com/portlands-riot-kitchen-arrested-in-kenosha-wisc-while-filling-large-gas-canisters (https://thepostmillennial.com/portlands-riot-kitchen-arrested-in-kenosha-wisc-while-filling-large-gas-canisters)
He's SO brave!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 06:21:18 PM
Plan on it Troll - I should report your sorry ass to the Arizona Board of Education
For what?  Being undeplorable?  Fuck off and act like an adult.  Disagree, but disparaging my career and something I'm good at is asinine.  


Keep showing us your quality of humanity.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 06:23:45 PM
Who?
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2020/08/27/906642178/one-authors-argument-in-defense-of-looting
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 28, 2020, 06:27:37 PM
Not if they're the right color.
Are you kidding?  OAM, you post stuff you can’t possibly believe 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 06:28:31 PM
But a book store was not looted.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 06:32:17 PM
Are you kidding?  OAM, you post stuff you can’t possibly believe
You're right, they're colorblind and it's all sunshine and rainbows.  Let's all pretend the same exact people who are so anti-abortion that they throw all the other issues in the trash aren't the ones who want to withhold every possible cent from these would-be poor, minority mothers' assistance.  

I'm the asshole, clearly.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 28, 2020, 06:35:27 PM
Who?
The leader of BLM NYC, for one. Got Google?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 28, 2020, 06:36:05 PM
For what?  Being undeplorable?  Fuck off and act like an adult.  Disagree, but disparaging my career and something I'm good at is asinine. 


Keep showing us your quality of humanity.
Screw off you disparaged everyone on here and act when you're treated in kind shocked.If you had 1/2 the brains you think you do You would delete that.People of perhaps the highest integrity attempting to save life's and you suggest they're doing it to manipulate them for later benefits .I disparaging you - pathetic example of humanity,which makes me wonder why I've wasted so much time trying to reason with you.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 06:36:21 PM
That person is wrong then.  And probably an idiot.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 06:37:11 PM
Screw off you disparaged everyone on here and act when you're treated in kind shocked.If you had 1/2 the brains you think you do You would delete that.People of perhaps the highest integrity attempting to save life's and you suggest they're doing it to manipulate them for later benefits .I disparaging you - pathetic example of humanity,which makes me wonder why I've wasted so much time trying to reason with you.
The irrational lack reason.  Call it something else.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 28, 2020, 06:38:03 PM
If you think the government is incompetent and incapable of making change, and you don't have vast resources, then the alternative is violence. There is no third option.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 28, 2020, 06:39:03 PM
That person is wrong then.  And probably an idiot.
And certainly not helping the cause. Doesn't help when they self-profess being trained Marxists either.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 28, 2020, 06:40:17 PM
If you think the government is incompetent and incapable of making change, and you don't have vast resources, then the alternative is violence. There is no third option.
Yes, there is a third option. How about the community elders in blighted places approach the local chambers of commerce and try to work on becoming not blighted?

It's about trust bro. You gotta build trust.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 06:40:27 PM
If you think the government is incompetent and incapable of making change, and you don't have vast resources, then the alternative is violence. There is no third option.
Don't forget unwilling to make change.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 06:41:32 PM
And certainly not helping the cause. Doesn't help when they self-profess being trained Marxists either.
Yeah, the leaders of the group are nuts.  If only they wanted what their followers did and not a crazy avalanche more.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 28, 2020, 06:48:20 PM
Yes, there is a third option. How about the community elders in blighted places approach the local chambers of commerce and try to work on becoming not blighted?

It's about trust bro. You gotta build trust.
Now you see why some countries don’t negotiate with terrorists for hostages.

we are dealing with people who only know one thing and that is violence. Right here on this very form is a perfect example. Unfortunately the only thing left to deal with those people is the only language they understand, violence.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 28, 2020, 06:49:22 PM
Don't forget unwilling to make change.
Unwilling to make ridiculous and unreasonable changes, for sure.

Again here you go with your I’m taking my marbles and going home or throwing a hissy fit. Seriously dude you just need help
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 28, 2020, 06:55:38 PM
The irrational lack reason.  Call it something else.
your natural predisposition to morph into the douche nozzle you were destined to be will not be denied.I've realized that you are a weeping wound of bristling pride and seething grievance that will never see the world outside of your cognitive dissonance 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 06:56:33 PM
One could leave the country, in theory anyway.  I hear life may better some other places for the repressed.

Oddly, some of the repressed elsewhere try hard to get here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 07:13:19 PM
your natural predisposition to morph into the douche nozzle you were destined to be will not be denied.I've realized that you are a weeping wound of bristling pride and seething grievance that will never see the world outside of your cognitive dissonance
:-*  I feel like this is you growling.  Are you growling?  I don't recall attacking your career or your ability to do your job.  I've simply criticized your ideas and you for having them.  


But we all know I'm the jerk and you should probably just continue growling.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 07:18:36 PM
Is there a thing, or things, that could be changed wherein the protesters would say "OK, that's great, we're done protesting."

Anybody know what it might be, specifically (as opposed to something vague like "Justice", I don't know what that means.)

The events being protested are local issues (perhaps Fed agents in Portland excepted).  This isn't about national policy or government, it's about local policing.

What needs to change?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 28, 2020, 07:19:42 PM
You're right, they're colorblind and it's all sunshine and rainbows.  Let's all pretend the same exact people who are so anti-abortion that they throw all the other issues in the trash aren't the ones who want to withhold every possible cent from these would-be poor, minority mothers' assistance. 

I'm the asshole, clearly.
On one hand you rail against racism and judging people by their group but then turn around and do that very thing.  The same evangelicals who oppose abortion also routinely work outreach programs at churches all around the country that help the very people you are talking about clothe and feed their children.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 07:20:31 PM
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2020/08/27/906642178/one-authors-argument-in-defense-of-looting
I think this is worth a look in terms of what some say to justify some of these acts (looting).  This is a published author, apparently, who wrote an entire book about why looting is, well, justified.  An entire book.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 28, 2020, 07:21:20 PM
Is there a thing, or things, that could be changed wherein the protesters would say "OK, that's great, we're done protesting."

Anybody know what it might be, specifically (as opposed to something vague like "Justice", I don't know what that means.)

The events being protested are local issues (perhaps Fed agents in Portland excepted).  This isn't about national policy or government, it's about local policing.

What needs to change?
Call me crazy but the police killing or maiming people seems to lead to these events. So that's what needs to change.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 28, 2020, 07:21:31 PM
Is there a thing, or things, that could be changed wherein the protesters would say "OK, that's great, we're done protesting."

Anybody know what it might be, specifically (as opposed to something vague like "Justice", I don't know what that means.)

The events being protested are local issues (perhaps Fed agents in Portland excepted).  This isn't about national policy or government, it's about local policing.

What needs to change?
I still haven't taken the time to evaluate whether their proposed changes are things I'd support, but I posted this a day or two ago. 

These guys are actually trying to identify concrete, possible changes: https://www.joincampaignzero.org/ (https://www.joincampaignzero.org/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 28, 2020, 07:22:46 PM
:-*  I feel like this is you growling.  Are you growling?  I don't recall attacking your career or your ability to do your job.  I've simply criticized your ideas and you for having them. 


But we all know I'm the jerk and you should probably just continue growling.
Ah took a while to get rid of that fur ball,huh.You sound like a cat stuck in a fan belt
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 07:25:55 PM
I still haven't taken the time to evaluate whether their proposed changes are things I'd support, but I posted this a day or two ago.

These guys are actually trying to identify concrete, possible changes: https://www.joincampaignzero.org/ (https://www.joincampaignzero.org/)
I glanced at that site.  I guess they may have concrete proposals somewhere, I didn't see them.

I think it should be on the front page, a nice list, boom.  Not some aspirational goo.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 07:27:52 PM
Call me crazy but the police killing or maiming people seems to lead to these events. So that's what needs to change.
It needs to change, um, yeah.  That isn't very specific, but I expect that sort of burfle.

It needs to change.

How would we know IF it changed?  What needs to be done to promote that change?  What IS that change?  Change could be more police killings.  That would be change too.

This is the sort of vague burfly nonsense I see from these folks.  Change.  Um, yeah.  I don't think they know themselves.  They just enjoy protesting.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 28, 2020, 07:31:43 PM
Call me crazy but the police killing or maiming people seems to lead to these events. So that's what needs to change.
Not killing people. Killing black people specifically. We all know by now more whites are killed by the police every year than blacks. No one cares. No one protests.  No one assumes the worst about the motive of the cop.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 07:35:43 PM
On one hand you rail against racism and judging people by their group but then turn around and do that very thing.  The same evangelicals who oppose abortion also routinely work outreach programs at churches all around the country that help the very people you are talking about clothe and feed their children.
Very true.  But I've got to ask....is there anything good the religious do that couldn't be done without the religion?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 07:36:28 PM
Maybe don't kill unarmed people?  And if you do, you're not a cop anymore?  Hmm?  Might be a good start.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 07:37:34 PM
So, what specific steps could local governments take to make the protesters content, or happy, or feel they were successful?

They aren't protesting Federal policies, in the main, are they?  

Which specific steps could a city council pass here?  Defund the police?  OK, what does that look like?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 28, 2020, 07:38:56 PM
How about follow directives and not go back into a car that could have a firearm,being warned.If you weren't such a squat and pee I'd suggest you try law enforcement
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 07:39:28 PM
Maybe don't kill unarmed people?  And if you do, you're not a cop anymore?  Hmm?  Might be a good start.
By and large, with very few exceptions, police who kill without justification are charged and never are cops any more.  But this of course is aspirational burfle itself.

It's already policy not to use deadly force on unarmed people.  So, what could be changed to make this better?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 28, 2020, 07:39:30 PM
It needs to change, um, yeah.  That isn't very specific, but I expect that sort of burfle.

It needs to change.

How would we know IF it changed?  What needs to be done to promote that change?  What IS that change?  Change could be more police killings.  That would be change too.

This is the sort of vague burfly nonsense I see from these folks.  Change.  Um, yeah.  I don't think they know themselves.  They just enjoy protesting.
Killing fewer people is burfle he says.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 07:40:08 PM
How about follow directives and not go back into a car that could have a firearm,being warned.If you weren't such a squat and pee I'd suggest you try law enforcement
That also is not a policy change, or procedure change, or real change.  What can a city council DO here?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 28, 2020, 07:40:49 PM
Very true.  But I've got to ask....is there anything good the religious do that couldn't be done without the religion?
No, but that has zero to do with what we are talking about.  You just made a big, unfair characterization of a large group of people that you shouldn’t have. Let’s agree you regret it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 28, 2020, 07:40:50 PM
So, what specific steps could local governments take to make the protesters content, or happy, or feel they were successful?

They aren't protesting Federal policies, in the main, are they? 

Which specific steps could a city council pass here?  Defund the police?  OK, what does that look like?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/19/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-and-does-it-have-merit/amp/
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 07:41:02 PM
Killing fewer people is burfle he says.
It's worse than burfle, it is a stupid comment, and has nothing to do with my question, but I don't expect you to get that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 07:42:00 PM
What can a city council do to change this?

List'em up.  No need to cite some vague web site, just throw out 2-3-4 ideas.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 28, 2020, 07:42:07 PM
It's worse than burfle, it is a stupid comment, and has nothing to do with my question, but I don't expect you to get that.

Killing fewer people is stupid he says
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 28, 2020, 07:44:58 PM
Perhaps because they are Americans too. To many times, people forget that even though they may live in a different part of the country, the opinions, lives and traditions of people in the South are somehow inferior to yours. The left has made everything that defines our nation as racist or a "dog whistle". Michelle Obama alluded to all of this when her husband was running for President. She stated: . . .
Quote
In the opinions of many, removing statues is one way that the left is attempting to "change our history". The fact of the matter is, you can't change history but you can try to rewrite it to comport to ones own ideas. Perhaps if more people would have listened to what the left has been telling us they want to do, more people would have realized it and stood up to it before now.

Defense of Confederate memorialization with public funds on public property gets more and more disconnected from reality as time goes on.
Had the Southern secessionists succeeded in breaking away so that slavery could be perpetually enshrined, they could have considered themselves heroic rebels.  But they lost, and so they were treasonous.  Traitors.
If you rebel, you'd better win, because if you lose, you're a traitor.  The American Revolutionists understood this.  The Confederate secessionists actually understood this far better than their latter-day admirers and defenders do.  They would never have believed that there would be, for example, a memorial to the defeated, defunct Confederacy at Arlington Cemetery, created as a place to bury Union dead.  (Yes, I know it was built on R.E. Lee's wife's property.)
Those memorials were put up to enforce notions of white supremacy, put up at times when it seemed like black people were getting a bit uppity and needed some reminding of their status.  Needed a few lynchings too, to make the same point.  Here we are 155 years after the end of slavery, and black American citizens still have to see monuments to eternal slavery/white supremacy on public property, maintained at public expense.  Or serve on military bases named for the same men, in an attempt to appease their descendants and admirers.
They should come down now.  Not by mob actions, nor by federal edict (except in cases where the memorials are on federal property) but by the white citizens of the South having the decency to get their governments to remove them.  But I see that there was some Confederate memorial in Louisiana heavily damaged by Hurricane Laura not long after the local authorities voted to keep it up, so my faith that enough white Southerners will do the right thing on this anytime soon is dwindling.  (I think that most white Southerners are decent folks who have tried hard to put the wrongs of their ancestors behind them and do not want to repeat them.  But it seems to me that many of them just have a block on this issue.  Those statues have been there so long that they are landmarks that should stay up because of that alone.  I feel that way about the church hymns of yesteryear giving way to "praise music" and about old buildings being torn down to put up new ones.)
If Donald Trump really viewed himself as the President of all the people of the United States, he would be leading on this as a way of healing centuries'old wounds.  But he only views himself as leader of his tribe, and his tribe includes people who want those statues up for what they are--statements of white supremacy.
And it's not about rewriting history, whatever that means.  (White supremacist history is what's being defended.)  It's about no longer honoring people for their attempt to perpetuate slavery and white supremacy until the Trumpet sounds.  If Lee absolutely must be honored, then honor him for his service in the United States Army during the Mexican War, when he was a genuine hero, not leading a rebel army that killed thousands of loyal citizens of the United States of America.  Erect a statue of him as a younger man in his Mexican War uniform.
If these statues Trump wants to protect were going up today, would any decent person support them?  I don't think so.
Yes, Obama made some of those appeals to his "tribe" too.  They were wrong, and they were bad, but they weren't 1/10 as bad as what Trump has done and is doing and will continue to do.  But even if they were worse than Trump's, we can't justify Trump's wrongs by citing Obama's wrongs.  That's just "my tribe" vs. "your tribe."  That's not patriotism or saving the country from the other side.  It's just crap.
Obama could at least do a good simulation of being president of all the people.  Trump not only won't make the effort, he works hard to do the opposite.
To reiterate a point I implied above, I despise mobs tearing down statues.  I pretty much despise mobs doing anything.  Destroying property is behind killing people in the list of things that mobs do that I despise the most, but not far behind.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 07:47:37 PM
Killing fewer people is stupid he says
I said  your comment is stupid.  Can you read at all in English?

This is akin to some CEO saying "We need higher profits!".  Yeah, duh, dude, how?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 07:50:30 PM
No, but that has zero to do with what we are talking about.  You just made a big, unfair characterization of a large group of people that you shouldn’t have. Let’s agree you regret it.
LOL
A wide swath of people who would bestow, "he was a good Christian man" on someone as a compliment are about to vote Donald Trump for president a second time.

The absolute nicest thing I can say about them is that I've got to assume they simply don't know what the word 'hypocrite' means.  For if they allow a single issue to toss all of their piousness out the window, they are indeed in need of saving.  

It's disgusting.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 28, 2020, 07:51:13 PM
I said  your comment is stupid.  Can you read at all in English?

This is akin to some CEO saying "We need higher profits!".  Yeah, duh, dude, how?
Read the things mentioned so far
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 28, 2020, 07:51:39 PM
That also is not a policy change, or procedure change, or real change.  What can a city council DO here?
Sorry my response was to someone coughing up a fur ball on the other page
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 28, 2020, 07:55:40 PM
Not to mention, politicians already lean extremely heavily into the donation market - not sure that has been a beneficial development.
I'm not either.
But it was an effect of ending the "spoils system."
I'm not sure how widely that effect was understood when the Pendleton Civil Service Reform Act--starting the process of professionalizing the civil service--was passed in 1883.
Sometimes you clean up one mess and create another in the process.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 28, 2020, 07:57:33 PM
LOL
A wide swath of people who would bestow, "he was a good Christian man" on someone as a compliment are about to vote Donald Trump for president a second time.

The absolute nicest thing I can say about them is that I've got to assume they simply don't know what the word 'hypocrite' means.  For if they allow a single issue to toss all of their piousness out the window, they are indeed in need of saving. 

It's disgusting.
Say would you have the Troll toll free phone number and address to state board of education - asking for a friend
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 07:59:13 PM
Folks who are virulently against abortion are not going to vote for Biden.  Among the real differences a President can make, and there aren't all that many really, are judicial appointments.  They would vote for the Devil if he appointed anti-abortion Justices

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 28, 2020, 07:59:18 PM
I'm not either.
But it was an effect of ending the "spoils system."
I'm not sure how widely that effect was understood when the Pendleton Civil Service Reform Act--starting the process of professionalizing the civil service--was passed in 1883.
Sometimes you clean up one mess and create another in the process.
Very interesting not something I'd thought about before
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 28, 2020, 08:02:52 PM
One man’s “ progress” is another man’s regression.

I don’t want your version of “progress”.   

I wish we had a real choice.  Not two horror shows.
I wish that too.  Our two great political parties have served us up a big turd and a smaller turd.
We can argue about which is which.
I recommend this opinion piece about how and why the parties are nominating such lousy candidates.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/12/too-much-democracy-is-bad-for-democracy/600766/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/12/too-much-democracy-is-bad-for-democracy/600766/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 28, 2020, 08:05:07 PM
I had a cousin who did a lot of research on great gramps but he's no longer around and the family didn't hang on to or lost things he researched.Military Historians say Johnston would have been a great one had he survived.Unlike that fiery preacher Polk Sherman's Army killed or Bragg who both appeared to be political appointees
Heh!  This military historian says that Albert Sidney Johnston was overrated.  ;)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2020, 08:08:01 PM
The chasm of importance between them was the point.  Lost.
well, it obviously wasn't lost on me
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 28, 2020, 08:12:17 PM
Just to throw out their I am solidly pro-choice and I think efforts to incarcerate women and doctors over abortion are evil.
Do you think that a baby is a human being at some point prior to the doctor slapping its bottom?
Partial-birth abortion is rare, and babies surviving the partial-birth abortion only to be left to die in the sink is even rarer.  But they happen.  That are at the very limit of what "pro-choice" means.  But they happen.
Do you support those measures?
I will stipulate that there are hard questions for pro-lifers like me to answer, and that for some of those questions I don't have good answers.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 28, 2020, 08:12:34 PM
Heh!  This military historian says that Albert Sidney Johnston was overrated.  ;)
Hey he took one for the team and according to Shelby Foote his staff Surgeon was treating Union casualties
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2020, 08:35:39 PM
Is there a thing, or things, that could be changed wherein the protesters would say "OK, that's great, we're done protesting."

Anybody know what it might be, specifically (as opposed to something vague like "Justice", I don't know what that means.)

The events being protested are local issues (perhaps Fed agents in Portland excepted).  This isn't about national policy or government, it's about local policing.

What needs to change?
perhaps the Kenosha police chief and city council could implement changes....

disband the police union 

body cameras required while on duty

officers involved in shootings automatic 2 weeks suspension with or w/o pay

all shooting incidents go to independent review

hard published (to the public) reasons to deploy a weapon and to discharge or fire a weapon

as Badger has suggested - monthly meetings attended by community leaders, police administration, city council member,  and others as needed.

I'm sure there are many others........

protestors should be required to submit a list of demands - they need to be involved and have thoughts on the matter, not just emotion and frustration
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 28, 2020, 08:41:23 PM
It's just my personal pet peeve, because 99% of the time there is no functional difference between a republic and democracy and people say there is mostly as a justification to prevent people from participating.  Carry on, good sir.

Of course words have definitions.  That's why it's dumb to claim shooting or locking them in a cage someone is actually nonviolent, and also silly to claim we don't live in a democracy because we live in a republic.
Sam:

Democracy and Republic are not synonyms.  They are not almost synonyms.  They are two different things.
A democracy focuses on people making the laws.  The greater percentage of the people who vote, the more democratic a democracy is.  The classical Athenian democracy is not one we would consider very democratic at all, as only a small minority of people were able to vote.  Voter turnout was often high, though.
A monarchy could be a democracy.  Great Britain has one.
A republic focuses on representatives of the people making the laws for them.  (And there not being a monarch.)  It is not necessary (in a republic) that the people directly elect those representatives.  The representatives could be chosen in a number of ways.  The state could put the office up for bid, and the highest bidder would win.  (A nice addendum would be that he would have to help fund the government with his personal wealth.)  They could be chosen by lot, or, today, by random generation of SSANs.  They could be chosen by the leaders of the polity one echelon below the offices in question.  They could be chosen by election, with the lowest vote-getters "winning."
You could have a republic that was very democratic or you could have one that is not recognizably democratic at all.
We are a republic that is quite democratic.  ("A democracy in a republic," as I remember from some 6th-grade patriotic celebration.)  Some would like it to be more democratic.  Others, not so much.
I think that we would not go wrong if we did not equate "democratic" and "good."  (Just as I think we would not go wrong if we did not equate "Republican" or "Democrat" with "good.")  Democracies have produced some pretty bad results, like electing Adolf Hitler to power in 1933.  And electing the pathetic French leaders whom he conquered so easily in 1940.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 28, 2020, 08:44:45 PM
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep arguing over what's for dinner.
I don't think Franklin added this, but I've seen, "And liberty is when the sheep is armed so that he can contest the vote."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 28, 2020, 08:47:39 PM
What should society do with bad guys who are a danger to society?

Serve them tea and cookies and just ask them to stop?

If you want to call it violent to lock somebody up that robs a bank then so be it

they still need to be locked up
Is there an alternative to incarceration?  Flogging, perhaps?  Being placed in the stocks?  Being branded on the forehead with "T" for "thief"?  Working on highway roadsides until the debt is repaid?
Just trying to think outside the box.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 28, 2020, 08:49:48 PM
LOL
A wide swath of people who would bestow, "he was a good Christian man" on someone as a compliment are about to vote Donald Trump for president a second time.

The absolute nicest thing I can say about them is that I've got to assume they simply don't know what the word 'hypocrite' means.  For if they allow a single issue to toss all of their piousness out the window, they are indeed in need of saving. 

It's disgusting.
Not two posts ago I called out your hypocrisy so save the outrage.  You are hitting on the dilemma of Christians in the last two elections.  If not Trump, then who is the candidate they can feel good about? Hillary? Biden? Harris?  I’d love to have better choices. Have you been reading the other posts on here? Most would.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 28, 2020, 09:10:22 PM
CW, you need a new play.  Your playbook is ineffective my friend.

your now days old diatribe against POTUS is not changing any minds.  You act like him holding a bible is unique to him.  Like no other politicians do and say things politically based lol.  Like You think Biden wearing a mask is because he thinks masks make sense.  Or that a single word that comes out of his mouth are his personal beliefs.  Or the fact that he FINALLY, mildly, denounced the rioting in our cities is because he is against it, and not because his CNN and other consultants warned him that their data suggests this issue is important to many swing voters and is starting to move against him.  Please. 

The playbook of criticism, calling anyone who disagrees a racist, second guessing, obstructing and dividing needs a refresh.  Like,  Coming up with a single position on the issues of the day and how you would handle it. 

Assume your talking to those of us who can’t stand POTUS as your starting point, and tell us why the other side is viable choice.

I was going to post the dozens of twitter videos from just last night showing more mob violence, attacking law enforcement, etc...but you know it is out there in spades ( its what OAF) and you like to call progress.  Mobs of people surrounding outdoor diners and forcing them through fear to join in the chants of “ white silence is violence” and getting inches from the face of those who don’t comply (without a mask no less) and screaming at the top of your lungs.

and no cop outs here....don’t write off that this is what is going on or I will post the videos, and they are from twitter, not any news agency.
How many politicians use the Bible as a prop without being able to cite a single verse, other than to say that they really like "two Corinthians"?

I'm not saying that anyone who disagrees is a racist.  Where are you getting that?  I am saying that Trump appeals to racists and non-racists.  And his appeal to racists is not an accident.

Biden is a viable choice because he will stay between the lines of constitutional norms.  His policies will be bad for America, but no worse than Trump's.  Just bad in different ways.  He won't resemble someone who thinks he has dictatorial powers because he's in the White House.  He won't talk (or have his surrogates talk) about a 3rd term for himself.  Same thing about his face being put on Mount Rushmore.  He won't use the White House as a prop for events that are purely partisan.  He will at least simulate being the president of the entire country.  And the Republican Party may recover some guts and integrity being back in the minority, which is what its behavior over the last 3-1/2 years will have earned.

When have I copped out by saying that these riots are not going on?  They are going on.  They are terrible.  They should be stopped.  But first, mayors should enforce the law.  That means cracking down on rioters just like it means cracking down on bad cops.  Governors should enforce the law, even if that means offending some interest groups that support them.  The President should enforce federal laws.  The president should not send in the U.S. Army or federalized National Guardsmen against the requests of local authorities unless federal laws are being broken and not enforced (as was the case in 1957 when Ike sent the 101st Airborne to Little Rock to enforce the Brown v. Board ruling).  Is that the case here?  Maybe it is, but I'm not sure what federal laws those would be.  If no federal laws are being broken, then the federal troops should stay out unless invited.

If blue-city mayors and blue-state governors aren't willing to enforce the law, then people should vote with their feet, as Badge is doing.  That's what's so great about American federalism.  If you don't like what your state is doing, there are 49 others to choose from, and you can still be a loyal, red-blooded American.  Without federal intervention.

Do we believe in states' rights?  Do we believe in a federal government that limits itself to its Constitutional powers?  Or do we only believe in those things for red states when the "blue" president does something we don't like?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 28, 2020, 09:16:32 PM
That's a removal of social stigmas, which is a good thing.  And yes, having more freedom happens to include the freedom to make poor choices.  You know this.
Do you not believe in social stigmas in general, or only the stigma against unwed motherhood?
Without social stigmas, the only way of sanctioning bad behavior is by law.
And surely we don't want to make everything that is bad punishable by law.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 28, 2020, 09:19:52 PM
Very true, great post.

And their hypocrisy only grows on this issue...they toss all other issues out the window to end abortions (ideally, in their minds), just so those babies born largely to the poor and to brown and black mothers can be ignored.  They're quite literally advocating for growing the impoverished. 

If I took it a step further, it's as if they're trying to create a servant class of American citizens.  You know, to replace those illegal aliens who do the jobs no one else wants.  But that's merely conjecture on my part.  Silly, I'm sure.
If pro-lifers were making an exception for black and brown abortions, what would you say then?  I doubt that you would be praising them for preventing more black and brown people from lives of servility.
You've cleverly rigged the terms of the debate so that you get to win either way.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 09:30:41 PM
perhaps the Kenosha police chief and city council could implement changes....

disband the police union

body cameras required while on duty

officers involved in shootings automatic 2 weeks suspension with or w/o pay

all shooting incidents go to independent review

hard published (to the public) reasons to deploy a weapon and to discharge or fire a weapon

as Badger has suggested - monthly meetings attended by community leaders, police administration, city council member,  and others as needed.

I'm sure there are many others........

protestors should be required to submit a list of demands - they need to be involved and have thoughts on the matter, not just emotion and frustration

Decent list, but would this appease the protesters?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 28, 2020, 09:36:13 PM
Do you think that a baby is a human being at some point prior to the doctor slapping its bottom?
Partial-birth abortion is rare, and babies surviving the partial-birth abortion only to be left to die in the sink is even rarer.  But they happen.  That are at the very limit of what "pro-choice" means.  But they happen.
Do you support those measures?
I will stipulate that there are hard questions for pro-lifers like me to answer, and that for some of those questions I don't have good answers.
I think a baby is a human being at every point - from sperm and egg to butt slapping and every stage in between.  To me, life doesn't begin at conception - it began far before that.  The "pro-choice" and "pro-life" labels are, to me, an arbitrary decision on where we choose to recognize the legals rights of a person and choose to end some legal rights of the mother.  While conception and birth are the obvious bright line rules, they are hardly the only points.  Roe v. Wade famously talked about rights more or less gradually changing as the child grew in the womb.  The bright line rule could even be before conception.

In any event, to me, a bright line rule saying birth is the trigger is the least evil and most good result, while also acknowledging that you will run into some evil situations under that rule.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2020, 09:41:25 PM
someone who thinks he has dictatorial powers because he's in the White House.  He won't talk (or have his surrogates talk) about a 3rd term for himself.  Same thing about his face being put on Mount Rushmore.  He won't use the White House as a prop for events that are purely partisan.
Trump is who he is.  Certainly unorthodox for a president.  Do you think his actions and behaviors are annoying or actually dangerous?

He's certainly divisive.  Either you love him or hate him.  That in itself might be dangerous.

I don't see talking about a 3rd term or mount Rushmore as anything but crazy talk to bring out emotions from supporters and haters.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2020, 09:42:54 PM
Decent list, but would this appease the protesters?
I doubt it, but it would be something to offer.
Instead of what we have - burfle
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 28, 2020, 09:49:00 PM
Houston had some riots at the start

the first night the HPD arrested 100 and the 2nd night they arrested about 200

amazingly the riots kinda stopped and only peaceful protests remained

oh yes there was none of this crap about catch and release for the arrested rioters
320:
Who sent in the HPD?  The red governor or the blue mayor?  I'll bet it was the mayor.
Which is an illustration of why it's not just red=good, blue=bad.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 28, 2020, 09:54:47 PM
Sam:

Democracy and Republic are not synonyms.  They are not almost synonyms.  They are two different things.
A democracy focuses on people making the laws.  The greater percentage of the people who vote, the more democratic a democracy is.  The classical Athenian democracy is not one we would consider very democratic at all, as only a small minority of people were able to vote.  Voter turnout was often high, though.
A monarchy could be a democracy.  Great Britain has one.
A republic focuses on representatives of the people making the laws for them.  (And there not being a monarch.)  It is not necessary (in a republic) that the people directly elect those representatives.  The representatives could be chosen in a number of ways.  The state could put the office up for bid, and the highest bidder would win.  (A nice addendum would be that he would have to help fund the government with his personal wealth.)  They could be chosen by lot, or, today, by random generation of SSANs.  They could be chosen by the leaders of the polity one echelon below the offices in question.  They could be chosen by election, with the lowest vote-getters "winning."
You could have a republic that was very democratic or you could have one that is not recognizably democratic at all.
We are a republic that is quite democratic.  ("A democracy in a republic," as I remember from some 6th-grade patriotic celebration.)  Some would like it to be more democratic.  Others, not so much.
I think that we would not go wrong if we did not equate "democratic" and "good."  (Just as I think we would not go wrong if we did not equate "Republican" or "Democrat" with "good.")  Democracies have produced some pretty bad results, like electing Adolf Hitler to power in 1933.  And electing the pathetic French leaders whom he conquered so easily in 1940.
Yes - democracy and republic are not synonyms. But they are also not antonyms.  A democracy suggest people vote for their government, and a republic suggests representatives are in the government.  We obviously live in a democracy and we obviously live in a republic.  That's why Trump's election, while legal, is offensive to both.  He wasn't elected democratically, as he lost the vote.  He also wasn't elected by via republicanism - no elected delegate decided he was the best man for the job.  All of his electoral voted were tied to winner takes all state votes.  It's a system that is truly the worst of both worlds.

Anyways, I'm a believer in people being able to participate in their governance, and argument that people shouldn't get to vote because we don't live in a democracy get scoffed at by me.  I'm very sanguine on how much elected officials choose senators and presidents v. directly by the people.  My main goal is that elected people are actually elected by the people and not by geographic tricks or efforts to keep people from participating.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 28, 2020, 10:05:43 PM
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2020/08/27/906642178/one-authors-argument-in-defense-of-looting
Pretty discouraging.
Both the author's position (she posits looting the right places at the right times as a good thing) and the softball questions from the NPR interviewer.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 28, 2020, 10:15:56 PM
LOL
A wide swath of people who would bestow, "he was a good Christian man" on someone as a compliment are about to vote Donald Trump for president a second time.

The absolute nicest thing I can say about them is that I've got to assume they simply don't know what the word 'hypocrite' means.  For if they allow a single issue to toss all of their piousness out the window, they are indeed in need of saving. 

It's disgusting.
Every human being who advocates good is a hypocrite, for he will never be able always to live up to his own standards.
Evangelicals voting for Trump are hypocrites.  You're a hypocrite.  I'm a hypocrite.  We've all got feet of clay.
Evil people who advocate evil are not hypocrites.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 10:19:32 PM
Not two posts ago I called out your hypocrisy so save the outrage.  You are hitting on the dilemma of Christians in the last two elections.  If not Trump, then who 
Literally anyone else.  Obviously.  Christians are voting for the least Jesus-like option possible.  Willfully and proudly. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 28, 2020, 10:22:20 PM
320:
Who sent in the HPD?  The red governor or the blue mayor?  I'll bet it was the mayor.
Which is an illustration of why it's not just red=good, blue=bad.
The Mayor sent in the cops very quickly

what can I say he put the citizens first and is held in high reguard because of it

Incidentally the Governor has made it pretty clear what he expects from the Mayors of Texas cities concerning riots

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 10:23:30 PM
Literally anyone else.  Obviously.  Christians are voting for the least Jesus-like option possible.  Willfully and proudly.
I think you are over generalizing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 10:24:05 PM
If pro-lifers were making an exception for black and brown abortions, what would you say then?  
If I understand correctly, I think it'd be revealing.  

I don't think the white pro-lifers have thought out the "what if" there had been zero abortions in the past 40 years.  They'd be horrifically outnumbered and lose every national election.  They'd be supporting tens of millions more poor minorities than they're reluctant to aid now.  

It would be an even more radical time than we have now, by far.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 28, 2020, 10:24:37 PM
Hey he took one for the team and according to Shelby Foote his staff Surgeon was treating Union casualties
ASJ may have been a fine man (for a slaveholder), but he wasn't a good 4-star general.
As you can perhaps imagine, I have gotten into debates in the comments on Youtube Civil War videos with neo-Confederates and others who consider Shelby Foote to be the greatest of all Civil War historians.
Foote wrote a brilliantly readable and fascinating narrative account of the Civil War.  His 3 volumes are great works of the type of art they are.  But he was not a historian and The Civil War: A Narrative is not history.  He didn't use a historian's methods and he didn't call himself a historian.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 10:24:49 PM
I think you are over generalizing.
I may be specifying southern christians over northern christians, yes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 28, 2020, 10:25:38 PM
Literally anyone else.  Obviously.  Christians are voting for the least Jesus-like option possible.  Willfully and proudly.
Jesus-like?


Just what would you know about Jesus-like Mr non believer
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 28, 2020, 10:31:16 PM
I think a baby is a human being at every point - from sperm and egg to butt slapping and every stage in between.  To me, life doesn't begin at conception - it began far before that.  The "pro-choice" and "pro-life" labels are, to me, an arbitrary decision on where we choose to recognize the legals rights of a person and choose to end some legal rights of the mother.  While conception and birth are the obvious bright line rules, they are hardly the only points.  Roe v. Wade famously talked about rights more or less gradually changing as the child grew in the womb.  The bright line rule could even be before conception.

In any event, to me, a bright line rule saying birth is the trigger is the least evil and most good result, while also acknowledging that you will run into some evil situations under that rule.
Thank you for your answer.  We disagree, but I appreciate your PoV.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 28, 2020, 10:42:04 PM
Trump is who he is.  Certainly unorthodox for a president.  Do you think his actions and behaviors are annoying or actually dangerous?

He's certainly divisive.  Either you love him or hate him.  That in itself might be dangerous.

I don't see talking about a 3rd term or mount Rushmore as anything but crazy talk to bring out emotions from supporters and haters.
I think that his actions and behaviors fray the fabric of our politics.  They make us trust each other less and hate each other more.  And he benefits from that.  I think he's dangerous for all of that, but I think he'd be much more dangerous if he could hold a single idea in his mind for longer than it takes to read the next tweet that interests him.
I agree that the talk is crazy talk, but we don't need a president who uses crazy talk to fire up his base.  That in itself is destructive.
And, I will say, I have liked some of his policies.  I think that his two SCOTUS nominees have been solid, although he perhaps could have done a little better than Kavanaugh (not because of the smear job done on him by the Democrats).  I like that he moved our embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, even though I think he did it for the wrong reason, and even though I think his policies toward Israel have worked to make support for that country a very partisan issue.
And he has destroyed the integrity of the Republican Party (to the extent that it had some) and discredited conservative politics in the eyes of every person not his supporter.
I've probably liked his policies more than I will Biden's (a very low bar to clear), but I still view him as the greater of two evils.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 28, 2020, 10:47:25 PM
Yes - democracy and republic are not synonyms. But they are also not antonyms.  A democracy suggest people vote for their government, and a republic suggests representatives are in the government.  We obviously live in a democracy and we obviously live in a republic.  That's why Trump's election, while legal, is offensive to both.  He wasn't elected democratically, as he lost the vote.  He also wasn't elected by via republicanism - no elected delegate decided he was the best man for the job.  All of his electoral voted were tied to winner takes all state votes.  It's a system that is truly the worst of both worlds.

Anyways, I'm a believer in people being able to participate in their governance, and argument that people shouldn't get to vote because we don't live in a democracy get scoffed at by me.  I'm very sanguine on how much elected officials choose senators and presidents v. directly by the people.  My main goal is that elected people are actually elected by the people and not by geographic tricks or efforts to keep people from participating.
You're right--they're not antonyms.  As I mentioned, they can and often do co-exist.
Trump was elected by virtue of federalism, another part of the Constitutional framework, combined with democracy at the state level.
We don't have national plebiscite like we would if we were a mass democracy.  That's fine with me.
You have more faith in more democracy than I do.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 28, 2020, 10:54:45 PM
If I understand correctly, I think it'd be revealing. 

I don't think the white pro-lifers have thought out the "what if" there had been zero abortions in the past 40 years.  They'd be horrifically outnumbered and lose every national election.  They'd be supporting tens of millions more poor minorities than they're reluctant to aid now. 

It would be an even more radical time than we have now, by far.
You didn't respond to the main point of my post.  I'll refresh your memory.
In response to your claim that pro-lifers are motivated to save the lives of unborn black and brown babies so that they (the pro-lifers) can have black and brown servants to wait on them, I posted:

Quote
If pro-lifers were making an exception for black and brown abortions, what would you say then?  I doubt that you would be praising them for preventing more black and brown people from lives of servility.

You've cleverly rigged the terms of the debate so that you get to win either way.

So, would you praise pro-lifers if they made exceptions for unborn black and brown babies?
Obviously, you wouldn't.  So, as I pointed out, you rigged the terms of the debate so that you win either way.  Pro-lifers are wrong in your book no matter what their motivation is.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2020, 10:58:24 PM
I've probably liked his policies more than I will Biden's (a very low bar to clear), but I still view him as the greater of two evils.
Biden certainly isn't dangerous.  He will be handled by the people in power of the Democratic party.  I'm a bit afraid of some of the policies they will push.

I doubt Biden will help unite the people much, but that would be better than further dividing the country.

I viewed Hillary as the greater of two evils 4 years ago.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 28, 2020, 11:03:49 PM
Biden certainly isn't dangerous.  He will be handled by the people in power of the Democratic party.  I'm a bit afraid of some of the policies they will push.

I doubt Biden will help unite the people much, but that would be better than further dividing the country.

I viewed Hillary as the greater of two evils 4 years ago.
So did I.  But I threw away my vote on Gary Johnson, the Libertarian.  I wish the Libertarians would nominate a serious candidate.  I've been told the Libertarian nominee this year has more/better ideas than merely legalizing marijuana.
I was happy on election night that Trump won, more because Hillary lost than because of his win.
But the thrill didn't last long.  I took a student group to the Inauguration, and I was thoroughly dismayed by Trump's behavior around the Inaugural and his "Everything has sucked up till now, and things will never suck again now that I am in charge" address.
My students thought it was great.
I never again want to be in Washington on Inauguration Day.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 28, 2020, 11:06:12 PM
If I understand correctly, I think it'd be revealing. 

I don't think the white pro-lifers have thought out the "what if" there had been zero abortions in the past 40 years.  They'd be horrifically outnumbered and lose every national election.  They'd be supporting tens of millions more poor minorities than they're reluctant to aid now. 

It would be an even more radical time than we have now, by far. 
It’s a tough balance for us to strike.  We don’t want to be outnumbered but need our houses cleaned and yards mowed.  My wife and I had this discussion just the other day as we were YouTubing Jeff Foxworthy videos while letting off  fireworks and cleaning our guns.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 28, 2020, 11:08:29 PM
Biden certainly isn't dangerous.  He will be handled by the people in power of the Democratic party.  I'm a bit afraid of some of the policies they will push.

I doubt Biden will help unite the people much, but that would be better than further dividing the country.

I viewed Hillary as the greater of two evils 4 years ago.
I can’t believe I voted democratic almost across the board just a few elections ago. 

I now view them as the party of racism, divisiveness, dishonesty, obstruction, hate, violence, intolerance- and more than anything else- hypocrisy. not to mention they piss on the constitution constantly.

Biden himself is not much of anything/ a career politician who never accomplished a thing. But I doubt he would have much to say about policy. Which might be good- his fastball left him long ago.

So- no vote from me.  A crappy person versus a crappy party. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 28, 2020, 11:08:57 PM
It’s a tough balance for us to strike.  We don’t want to be outnumbered but need our houses cleaned and yards mowed.  My wife and I had this discussion just the other day as we were YouTubing Jeff Foxworthy videos while letting off  fireworks and cleaning our guns.
😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2020, 11:24:22 PM
 I was thoroughly dismayed by Trump's behavior around the Inaugural and his "Everything has sucked up till now, and things will never suck again now that I am in charge" address.

we should have all known what we were getting with Trump

I was a bit surprised the loose cannon wasn't reeled in and muted a bit by his "people" for his own good
I had hope back then, I'm sure nothing will change now, maybe get worse
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 11:27:49 PM
Jesus-like?


Just what would you know about Jesus-like Mr non believer
I know a lot about Santa and the Tooth Fairy, too!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 11:32:40 PM
You didn't respond to the main point of my post.  I'll refresh your memory.
In response to your claim that pro-lifers are motivated to save the lives of unborn black and brown babies so that they (the pro-lifers) can have black and brown servants to wait on them, I posted:

So, would you praise pro-lifers if they made exceptions for unborn black and brown babies?
Obviously, you wouldn't.  So, as I pointed out, you rigged the terms of the debate so that you win either way.  Pro-lifers are wrong in your book no matter what their motivation is.
Your last sentence - yes, obviously.  Just ask the woman who is pregnant.

For the rest of it, it's a combination of the abortion debate crossed with socioeconomic/race issues.  I might be fuzzy on what you're saying - I understood "made exceptions for unborn black and brown babies" to mean they'd allow those abortions.  

Yes, allowing only minorities to have abortions would be sickening and ghastly and odd.  I'm not sure why you brought that up (if understood correctly).  

Anyway, my larger point was that had pro-lifers gotten their way all along, they'd be regretting it right about now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 11:34:37 PM
It’s a tough balance for us to strike.  We don’t want to be outnumbered but need our houses cleaned and yards mowed.  My wife and I had this discussion just the other day as we were YouTubing Jeff Foxworthy videos while letting off  fireworks and cleaning our guns.
You can make fun of it, but you're a sample size of one and the group I'm describing is in the millions, so have your fun.  I'm not describing you, cool.  My point stands.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2020, 11:37:17 PM
I find it delicious that Trump is saying all this stuff will happen under Biden...when it's happening now under Trump.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 28, 2020, 11:40:06 PM
I know a lot about Santa and the Tooth Fairy, too!
Being a fairy I'd imagine you would keyboard kommando
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 28, 2020, 11:46:34 PM
we should have all known what we were getting with Trump

I was a bit surprised the loose cannon wasn't reeled in and muted a bit by his "people" for his own good
I had hope back then, I'm sure nothing will change now, maybe get worse
Was that the same inauguration with the million vagina March? Where madonna stood there and said they need to burn down the White House before the guy even took office? Yeah I remember.  I remember the protest by antifa too. Breaking windows and lighting fires. Horrible of Trump to make those things happen on his inaugural day.  I knew then what the next four years would look like. The freaking Dems never got over getting beat in the election and never stop focusing on it and still to this day they haven’t.   

Confirmation bias in action my goodness
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 28, 2020, 11:47:59 PM
  So, as I pointed out, you rigged the terms of the debate so that you win either way.  Pro-lifers are wrong in your book no matter what their motivation is.
The only thing he's won is a stay of execution
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 28, 2020, 11:52:21 PM
I find it delicious that Trump is saying all this stuff will happen under Biden...when it's happening now under Trump. 
Yes, it’s called a liberal playbook.

rule number one do bad things and clean the other side is doing it. Get the main stream media to help you.

Rule number two, walk into the peaceful house party, start a riot, kill people, create Mayham, then walk out look back and point and say what a horrible homeowner he is look what he’s got going on in his yard  

That’s why the liberal media and most liberals find the pandemic to be the greatest thing that ever happened to them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 28, 2020, 11:52:56 PM
I find it delicious that Trump is saying all this stuff will happen under Biden...when it's happening now under Trump. 
what "stuff" are you talking about

is it increasing taxes

or reducing oil production

or being buddies with China

or endorsing violence

or defunding the police

just which of those is Trump currently doing
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 28, 2020, 11:55:14 PM
what "stuff" are you talking about

is it increasing taxes

or reducing oil production

or being buddies with China

or endorsing violence

or defunding the police

just which of those is Trump currently doing
Yes- it is funny. Start riots and then blame POTUS for the violence. Stretch out the pandemic as long as you can to kill the economy and then blame POTUS for a bad economy LOL
What they don’t realize as they continually do this is that the only one that believes what they’re saying is they themselves while the rest of us are laughing at them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 29, 2020, 12:23:09 AM
That’s why the liberal media and most liberals find the pandemic to be the greatest thing that ever happened to them.
What an odd thing to pretend is the case. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 12:31:46 AM
What an odd thing to pretend is the case.
you must have missed the dem convention

how badly Trump has handled the virus was the topic of the day

they had glee in their faces as they talked about it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 29, 2020, 01:52:47 AM
what "stuff" are you talking about

is it increasing taxes

or reducing oil production

or being buddies with China

or endorsing violence

or defunding the police

just which of those is Trump currently doing
They're his ads, watch them.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 29, 2020, 01:55:49 AM
Yes- it is funny. Start riots and then blame POTUS for the violence. Stretch out the pandemic as long as you can to kill the economy and then blame POTUS for a bad economy LOL
This is another case where you're putting yourself in someone else's shoes and assuming they're doing what you would do in the same situation.

Not everyone is like you.  Not YOU you, but the royal you.


Like the lady in Amarillo who I once asked, "Is there a bookstore around here?"  And replied with, "an adult bookstore?"  No, what? No.  That's where her head was at.  

Just because you'd stretch out the pandemic for political reasons doesn't mean they are.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 29, 2020, 07:02:02 AM
Yes, it’s called a liberal playbook.

rule number one do bad things and clean the other side is doing it. Get the main stream media to help you.

Rule number two, walk into the peaceful house party, start a riot, kill people, create Mayham, then walk out look back and point and say what a horrible homeowner he is look what he’s got going on in his yard 

That’s why the liberal media and most liberals find the pandemic to be the greatest thing that ever happened to them.
Ah yes, I've seen my parents twice all year and my kids get to see other kids like six times all year.  It's really great.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 29, 2020, 08:04:38 AM
This is another case where you're putting yourself in someone else's shoes and assuming they're doing what you would do in the same situation.

Not everyone is like you.  Not YOU you, but the royal you.


Like the lady in Amarillo who I once asked, "Is there a bookstore around here?"  And replied with, "an adult bookstore?"  No, what? No.  That's where her head was at. 

Just because you'd stretch out the pandemic for political reasons doesn't mean they are.
You know the reaction you had when the lady asked if you were looking for an adult bookstore?  That was my reaction when you said pro-lifers real motivation was making sure there were enough minorities to do the jobs they didn’t want.  Not everyone is like you.  Just because you would oppose abortion for that reason doesn’t mean we are, but that is where your head is.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2020, 08:27:31 AM
The COVID crisis obviously has damaged Trump politically, just as it would have damaged any President in office right now.  The politicians out there could well seek to leverage that damage by prolonging the pain.  I doubt many of "us" would do that, but politicians like POWER.  Many are rather unprincipled in my opinion.

Even if you think Trump has handled this badly, he's not unique in that respect if you look at most EU countries.  Many are worse off, and their heads of state have suffered as well politically.  So, it seems pretty likely that SOME politicians hope to prolong and worsen this for political reasons.

Without it, Trump has a pretty solid campaign item, the economy, that has dissipated, largely.  With it, he's obviously vulnerable.

So, at this point, which Democrat in office would want to lessen the impact of the pandemic to the economy?  Some probably, not all.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 08:28:07 AM
They're his ads, watch them. 
what the hell does that mean?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2020, 08:31:00 AM
As for changes that would make protesters "happy", this is obviously a local issue.  Some localities will probably pass some items that may appease some protesters, but not all.  My GUESS is a lot of city councils will try and figure out how to provide some lip service and pass some "defund the police" stuff that really is marginal and minimal and down the road.

But no matter what they do, the next time a black man is shot by police, there will be more protests.  We're in the cycle now, there is nothing that can quell it legislatively.  Winter will help obviously.

The police kill about 3 people a day, we don't seem to hear about the vast majority of them.  Some context and perspective might be useful, like how many black LEOs kill white suspects, etc.  It would also help if preliminary findings were released in a couple of days.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2020, 08:33:00 AM
what the hell does that mean?
I infer he meant you can figure out what Biden wants by watching his ads.

I disagree, but have at it.

I usually ponder what THREE things a candidate would really like to get done in office.  They rarely do more than three things in a term as President that are of consequence.  I'm not sure what Biden's priorities are beyond some aspirational stuff, like "stop police killings".

That sounds nice of course.  I find ads focus on things that sound nice, but lack enablement and functionality.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 29, 2020, 08:45:34 AM
what the hell does that mean?
Do you really think that gender bending anarchist snoflake like gator guy will put the tube of glue down long enough to give you anything that remotely resembles a reasonable answer
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2020, 08:48:44 AM
I don't think watching a political ad is any more revealing than watching an ad to buy this car or that.  Ads today rarely reveal anything useful in making some purchase determination.  They mostly are imagery, and political ads are no exception.

Human beings are less influenced by fact and logic and data than imagery, so that's what we get (along with the mute button).

The wife often watches local news with of course is replete with political ads, 99% imagery, maybe a little factoid slipped in at the beginning.  The factoids often as not are not relevant to much in my view.

What are the three things he'd like to achieve in office?  Not aspirational goo, but real things.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 29, 2020, 08:50:03 AM
they don't really care to change any meaningful 3 things
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 08:52:14 AM
I infer he meant you can figure out what Biden wants by watching his ads.

I disagree, but have at it.

I usually ponder what THREE things a candidate would really like to get done in office.  They rarely do more than three things in a term as President that are of consequence.  I'm not sure what Biden's priorities are beyond some aspirational stuff, like "stop police killings".

That sounds nice of course.  I find ads focus on things that sound nice, but lack enablement and functionality.
OAM stated that everything Trump is accusing Biden of if elected he is doing it himself

you saw my response so watching Bidens ads does not address this

basically Im asking OAM what things is Trump doing that he has accused Biden of going to do if elected
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2020, 08:53:43 AM
they don't really care to change any meaningful 3 things
I think they do at times.  I can list what Obama changed for example, a few items, not that many, and Trump.

It's usually three things in four years, about, without a black swan event.

Biden's three things?  One would be to partly reverse the Trump tax cuts.  I'm sure about 2 and 3.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 08:54:12 AM
If the voting public knew what Biden really would do if elected they would be very concerned
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2020, 08:55:01 AM
basically Im asking OAM what things is Trump doing that he has accused Biden of going to do if elected

I'd guess they are more along the lines of dividing the country, not being a unifier, killing the economy, and ruining trade.  Something akin to that.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 29, 2020, 08:55:12 AM
you know?

I don't think Biden knows
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 08:55:17 AM
I think they do at times.  I can list what Obama changed for example, a few items, not that many, and Trump.

It's usually three things in four years, about, without a black swan event.

Biden's three things?  One would be to partly reverse the Trump tax cuts.  I'm sure about 2 and 3.
Oil production would go way down
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2020, 08:55:31 AM
If the voting public knew what Biden really would do if elected they would be very concerned
What is one thing you think he really will do if elected?  One thing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2020, 08:56:24 AM
Oil production would go way down
I doubt it, Biden said he'd limit exploration on Federal land, right?  Meh.  The oil thing is beyond that now.  Oil production increased dramatically when Obama was President.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 08:59:53 AM
I doubt it, Biden said he'd limit exploration on Federal land, right?  Meh.  The oil thing is beyond that now.  Oil production increased dramatically when Obama was President.
well we disagree

fracking would stop
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 09:01:10 AM
Taxes would increase
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2020, 09:02:32 AM
Maybe, I think fracking is more important for NG production.  I don't know how critical it is for oil.

I also think when a candidate gets into office, he's often confronted by REALITY that changes what he thinks he can do.

I also think Biden is saying stuff to appeal to the AOC crowd often as not.  It could well not be a thing he'd really try and do in office.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 09:04:23 AM
Maybe, I think fracking is more important for NG production.  I don't know how critical it is for oil.

I also think when a candidate gets into office, he's often confronted by REALITY that changes what he thinks he can do.

I also think Biden is saying stuff to appeal to the AOC crowd often as not.  It could well not be a thing he'd really try and do in office.


because of his mental state he wont be our real President so you have to look at the dem party and what they would do
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2020, 09:04:30 AM
Taxes would increase
Yeah, I think he'd try and reverse most of the Trump tax cut plan, as I noted above, and you can't filibuster that.

In 8 years of Obama, I'd note there was only a slight adjustment to the upper marginal tax rate from the Bush tax cuts.  Otherwise, Obama was more of a tax cut guy really, in office.  

And I think Biden would sign a bill that reversed the local tax limit because that hits higher income folks living in blue states pretty hard.  It hit me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 09:08:18 AM
Yeah, I think he'd try and reverse most of the Trump tax cut plan, as I noted above, and you can't filibuster that.

In 8 years of Obama, I'd note there was only a slight adjustment to the upper marginal tax rate from the Bush tax cuts.  Otherwise, Obama was more of a tax cut guy really, in office. 

And I think Biden would sign a bill that reversed the local tax limit because that hits higher income folks living in blue states pretty hard.  It hit me.
It hurt the blue states cause thats where property taxes have skyrocketed to pay for all the programs the dems are running
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2020, 09:11:17 AM
It hurt the blue states cause thats where property taxes have skyrocketed to pay for all the programs the dems are running
Property and state income tax, both.  That limit hurts higher income folks a lot.  I'm not sure taxes have "skyrocketed" nationally, they've been pretty high for a while now.

Top marginal income rate in CA is 13.3%.  If you own a $3 million home, you pay a lot on that too.

The SALT limit will go away quickly, which would in effect be a tax cut.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 29, 2020, 09:13:18 AM
If Biden wins and I work for ICE I might be polishing my resume
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 29, 2020, 09:32:00 AM
And polishing a gun
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on August 29, 2020, 09:33:57 AM
I prefer to keep my guns unpolished.  They look more menacing that way.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 29, 2020, 09:41:13 AM
I prefer to keep my guns unpolished.  They look more menacing that way.
Intended targets won't see them from where I'm at.But you have a point even if it's just to reduce glare
 >:(
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2020, 09:47:20 AM
I suspect if Biden wins, they might rename ICE, sort of like how defunding police really means cutting their budget one year by 2%, and then putting it back the next year, or how the Cambden police were defunded completely.

It's pretty easy to fool a lot of folks into thinking you did something when you move deck chairs around.

It's a bit like Trump's wall thing which he famously promised.  I stated at the time he means to build some wall somewhere, probably replacing parts that have deteriorated mostly, and getting a photo op to imply the entire border is now walled in.

Politicians say stuff but rather often they don't actually do much.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 29, 2020, 10:19:00 AM
I suspect if Biden wins, they might rename ICE, sort of like how defunding police really means cutting their budget one year by 2%, and then putting it back the next year, or how the Cambden police were defunded completely.

It's pretty easy to fool a lot of folks into thinking you did something when you move deck chairs around.

It's a bit like Trump's wall thing which he famously promised.  I stated at the time he means to build some wall somewhere, probably replacing parts that have deteriorated mostly, and getting a photo op to imply the entire border is now walled in.

Politicians say stuff but rather often they don't actually do much.
That depends on where you sit.  The Obama administration was actually quite aggressive on immigration, though they had a somewhat coherent policy of going after people with criminal records.  The Trump policy, as one might expect, has been all over the place, and as a result, ICE and various anti-immigration efforts have become unpopular, especially among Democrats.  Because of the general dysfunction in Congress, executive actions have been much more important on immigration issues, and this is a place with a pretty wide gap between what Democrats and Republicans would do.  So if you are an immigrant, there may be some big changes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 29, 2020, 10:20:07 AM

Politicians say stuff but rather often they don't actually do much.
Which is why I don't want government involved in any solution.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 29, 2020, 10:21:31 AM
I like New Zealand's immigration policy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 29, 2020, 10:27:41 AM
Change you can believe in. Let's start with this:

Requirements of New Zealand Immigration
For being eligible to apply for the New Zealand Immigration, you have to meet the requirements:
a) You should be less than 55 years of age.
b) The applicant has to meet the health and character requirements.
c) You have to meet the English language proficiency as designed by the New Zealand Immigration authorities.


d) You have to meet the requirement of 100 points in the New Zealand Immigration points system (https://www.makevisas.com/newzealand-immigration/new-zealand-points-calculator/) to submit an expression of Interest (EOI).

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 29, 2020, 10:28:47 AM
I like New Zealand's immigration policy.
Amen. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 29, 2020, 10:29:33 AM
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1299708701528518662?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2020, 10:29:42 AM
As I suggested, ICE has bad odor now, so rename them, do the same basic things, change a few items on the margins, and declare victory.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2020, 10:31:57 AM
How citizens THINK about how they handled t he pandemic is perhaps interesting but hardly quantitative and relevant to reality.

I would prefer to look at actual hard data as opposed to some opinion poll.

My step grandkids start back to school next week.  That could get interesting.  France is not out of the woods yet.  Macron is rather unpopular.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 29, 2020, 10:34:25 AM
As I suggested, ICE has bad odor now, so rename them, do the same basic things, change a few items on the margins, and declare victory.


If you are afraid of people coming to your house and arresting you, the margins could be a rather big deal
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 29, 2020, 10:34:52 AM
How citizens THINK about how they handled t he pandemic is perhaps interesting but hardly quantitative and relevant to reality.

I would prefer to look at actual hard data as opposed to some opinion poll.

My step grandkids start back to school next week.  That could get interesting.  France is not out of the woods yet.  Macron is rather unpopular.
It's certainly relevant politically
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2020, 10:37:21 AM
It probably reflects more how folks see their "President" versus how well the pandemic was handled.  So, the figures reflect political opinions more than any technical assessment of how well the country has fared.

Unpopular head of state means country handled it badly, whether they did or not.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 10:49:42 AM
If you are afraid of people coming to your house and arresting you, the margins could be a rather big deal
if you are here illegally you should be
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 10:50:56 AM
As I suggested, ICE has bad odor now, so rename them, do the same basic things, change a few items on the margins, and declare victory.


How about we not rename them and let the bleeding heart libs pound sand
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 10:52:09 AM
If Biden is elected our boarders will not exist as they do now
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2020, 10:57:11 AM
How about we not rename them and let the bleeding heart libs pound sand
I'm just reflecting on how I think a Biden would handle this, or how Biden's handlers would.

IMHO, what politicians PROMISE is far less important than what they likely will actually do, and the actually do part often is window dressing designed to appease the masses who are susceptible to sound bites.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 29, 2020, 11:17:19 AM
If Biden is elected our boarders will not exist as they do now
Only if the Senate is lost too. Then I will move to New Zealand, where I would be useful.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 11:28:12 AM
Only if the Senate is lost too. Then I will move to New Zealand, where I would be useful.
if we tried to adopt NZ's immigration policy the courts would throw it out
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 11:29:58 AM
Only if the Senate is lost too. Then I will move to New Zealand, where I would be useful.
dont agree


theres a lot the Pres can do to facilitate the immigration policy 

just ask Obama bout that
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 11:31:51 AM
on kind of a diff subject

No way the dems allow Biden to debate
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2020, 11:32:50 AM
Congress can legislate immigration policy within very wide limits, legally.  Legislate is the key word here.

DACA stands for "Deferred Action".  OK, deferred until when?  Do it legislatively, or not.  Our immigration laws are a total mess today.  I've seen some of it in action personally.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2020, 11:33:30 AM
on kind of a diff subject

No way the dems allow Biden to debate

I think they will.  Biden did "OK" in debates earlier.  He just needs to stay on script with Talking Points.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2020, 11:35:36 AM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/29/europe/berlin-protest-coronavirus-police-grm-intl/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/29/europe/berlin-protest-coronavirus-police-grm-intl/index.html)

Interesting.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 11:42:09 AM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/29/europe/berlin-protest-coronavirus-police-grm-intl/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/29/europe/berlin-protest-coronavirus-police-grm-intl/index.html)

Interesting.
stupid Germans
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 29, 2020, 11:43:15 AM
I'm just reflecting on how I think a Biden would handle this, or how Biden's handlers would.
Much more in line with reality
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 11:46:00 AM
Much more in line with reality
thats what all voters should fear
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 29, 2020, 12:05:49 PM
if you are here illegally you should be
People shouldn't be here illegally.
But both main political parties are in cahoots with interest groups who want them here and ensure that there are incentives for them to come here.  So blame the people who lure them here too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 29, 2020, 12:07:45 PM
Only if the Senate is lost too. Then I will move to New Zealand, where I would be useful.
You under 55?I think they put the brakes on things for a while with the COVID
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 29, 2020, 12:10:36 PM
if we tried to adopt NZ's immigration policy the courts would throw it out
Why do you say that, 320?
If "we" tried to adopt the NZ policy by POTUS tweet, the courts would probably throw it out.  As they should.  The POTUS is not supposed to be a dictator.
If Congress passed a comprehensive immigration policy bill that set up a policy like NZ's, the courts would have no reason to overturn it.  And they wouldn't.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 12:20:08 PM
Why do you say that, 320?
If "we" tried to adopt the NZ policy by POTUS tweet, the courts would probably throw it out.  As they should.  The POTUS is not supposed to be a dictator.
If Congress passed a comprehensive immigration policy bill that set up a policy like NZ's, the courts would have no reason to overturn it.  And they wouldn't.
Pie in the sky
will never happen
the dems dont want educated healthy immigrants
they want the poor sick who will depend on the gov and vote blue
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 12:23:39 PM
People shouldn't be here illegally.
But both main political parties are in cahoots with interest groups who want them here and ensure that there are incentives for them to come here.  So blame the people who lure them here too.
fair enough

I will blame everybody cept Trump
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2020, 12:32:01 PM
To me, immigration reform is another item that lends itself to compromise, but neither party wants it.

Take the minimum wage.  It reached its zenith in 1968, if memory serves, adjusted for inflation.  OK, set it there and adjust it every year with a COLA.  Issue is now gone (spare me discussion of whether we need it or not, we have it, it's not going away).

Incidentally, that wage would be just under $11/hr.  

Parties want us divided and angry with each other.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 29, 2020, 12:40:45 PM
fair enough

I will blame everybody cept Trump
How many illegals do you think he's employed over the years? I'm gonna guess that number is a lot higher than zero, and I doubt he turned down the cost savings when it affected his own pocketbook. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2020, 12:43:50 PM
How many illegals do you think he's employed over the years? I'm gonna guess that number is a lot higher than zero, and I doubt he turned down the cost savings when it affected his own pocketbook.
Directly employed?  Might be zero,  Employed by his various operations?  Probably not zero.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 29, 2020, 12:46:08 PM
they want the poor sick who will depend on the gov and vote blue
Not sure about that - entering Orange gator guys dim bulb diatribe back on page 527
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 29, 2020, 12:50:34 PM
dont agree


theres a lot the Pres can do to facilitate the immigration policy

just ask Obama bout that
It’s ironic.  Kind of like Sam’s post about what people “think” and the how media shapes it.
it was never more evident than the children in cages photo to make Trump look bad.  But then it turned out the photos were from the Obama admin.  🤦

The pandemic hits here and the first thing the president does to cut off inflow of sick people from China is termed xenophobic by the Democrats while they’re carrying on their impeachment garbage And ignoring Covid. And then you wonder about what people think LOL?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 29, 2020, 12:51:50 PM
You under 55?I think they put the brakes on things for a while with the COVID
I'm 53.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 29, 2020, 12:55:10 PM
I'm 53.
Puppy.  Lol.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 29, 2020, 12:56:50 PM
Why do you say that, 320?
If "we" tried to adopt the NZ policy by POTUS tweet, the courts would probably throw it out.  As they should.  The POTUS is not supposed to be a dictator.
If Congress passed a comprehensive immigration policy bill that set up a policy like NZ's, the courts would have no reason to overturn it.  And they wouldn't.
Well then you should not have congresswoman and congressmen and and and celebrities tweeting about killing trump stabbing Trump, pictures of them showing his head cut off. That would never be loud if there was a dictatorship.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 01:01:19 PM
How many illegals do you think he's employed over the years? I'm gonna guess that number is a lot higher than zero, and I doubt he turned down the cost savings when it affected his own pocketbook.
so your aim is to justify illegal immigration?

all I know is that he is trying to stem the flow of illegals which is more then any dem is doing
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 29, 2020, 01:02:54 PM
fair enough

I will blame everybody cept Trump
Tell me if I'm wrong about this, 320:

You want a dictator as long as the dictator is Trump.  Congress is filled with worthless sacks of dung and a bunch of them are Dems who want to destroy America and at best it just gets in the way of the POTUS doing the "right thing."  So we need a Strongman, a Fearless Leader, as long as he's "our" Fearless Leader.

That is how constitutional government and the liberty it protects die.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 01:03:27 PM
I'm 53.
just a baby
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 01:06:08 PM
Tell me if I'm wrong about this, 320:

You want a dictator as long as the dictator is Trump.  Congress is filled with worthless sacks of dung and a bunch of them are Dems who want to destroy America and at best it just gets in the way of the POTUS doing the "right thing."  So we need a Strongman, a Fearless Leader, as long as he's "our" Fearless Leader.

That is how constitutional government and the liberty it protects die.
and how is he being a dictator

the courts never agree with him

the house wont support anything he wants

so what has he dont to earn the title of dictator
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 29, 2020, 01:06:39 PM
Pie in the sky
will never happen
the dems dont want educated healthy immigrants
they want the poor sick who will depend on the gov and vote blue
And the Republicans want the cheap labor, as the Chamber of Commerce orders.
Pols of both parties are in cahoots.
You're being led around by your nose by a guy who says he'll put a stop to it and then makes little improvement and in some ways makes things worse.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 29, 2020, 01:07:27 PM
and how is he being a dictator

the courts never agree with him

the house wont support anything his want

so what has he dont to earn the title of dictator
I didn't say he's succeeded.  I'm just asking if a dictator is what you want.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 01:09:04 PM
I didn't say he's succeeded.  I'm just asking if a dictator is what you want.
so hes not a dictator?

thats good isnt it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 01:13:52 PM
And the Republicans want the cheap labor, as the Chamber of Commerce orders.
Pols of both parties are in cahoots.
You're being led around by your nose by a guy who says he'll put a stop to it and then makes little improvement and in some ways makes things worse.
not sure what you mean by the first line above

Polls have nothing to do with Trump they are from private sources mostly supported by MSM

You object to a Pres saying he can solve a problem

CW it looks to me like you just dont like the guy which is fine there are folks out there I dont like either

Pelosi

talk about a dictator man she fits that description
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 29, 2020, 01:23:43 PM
so your aim is to justify illegal immigration?

all I know is that he is trying to stem the flow of illegals which is more then any dem is doing
No, I'm just saying that I believe Trump likely benefitted from illegal immigration without a shred of remorse when it fit his  business interests. And uses the opposite position for political gain without a shred of acknowledgement of the inconsistency when it fits his political interests. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 01:28:20 PM
No, I'm just saying that I believe Trump likely benefitted from illegal immigration without a shred of remorse when it fit his  business interests. And uses the opposite position for political gain without a shred of acknowledgement of the inconsistency when it fits his political interests.
not sure but it sounds like you are basing your entire rant on assumptions

he may have benefited and now he is trying to do what the voters want

I wish more politicians would do that
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 29, 2020, 02:09:10 PM
not sure but it sounds like you are basing your entire rant on assumptions

he may have benefited and now he is trying to do what the voters want

I wish more politicians would do that
Man, if that's what you call a rant... :57:

 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 02:22:01 PM
Man, if that's what you call a rant... :57:

 
sorry diatribe
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on August 29, 2020, 03:48:49 PM
No, I'm just saying that I believe Trump likely benefitted from illegal immigration without a shred of remorse when it fit his  business interests. And uses the opposite position for political gain without a shred of acknowledgement of the inconsistency when it fits his political interests.
I’d say you are right but I don’t care.  I care about what politicians do from a policy standpoint.  My guess is Trump and Biden both have personal beliefs about certain issues that are closer to the center than the voting bases they are trying to cater to.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 29, 2020, 03:58:38 PM
https://twitter.com/PeterKagan/status/1299337121807781889?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 04:08:32 PM
https://twitter.com/PeterKagan/status/1299337121807781889?s=19
point?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 29, 2020, 04:28:57 PM
C'mon guys. Lets keep it civil. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 29, 2020, 04:40:53 PM
so hes not a dictator?

thats good isnt it
No, it's not good.  Having a president who would like to be a dictator doesn't become a good thing just because he's not sharp enough to become one.
It's just less bad than it would be if he had an attention span longer than that of a goldfish.
He's got his finger on the nuclear button and yet he can't resist tweeting and retweeting stupid crap, including racist, alt-right, white-nationalist crap.
Conservatives/Republicans would be going through the roof if we had a Democrat in the White House doing and saying stupid, unethical, often borderline (if not outright) illegal stuff like Trump does.  But we're supposed to cheer and demand more of the same because he's "our" would-be dictator?
Imagine how you would have felt if 8 years ago someone had told you that he didn't trust any politician of either party except for Barack Obama, so whatever Barack Obama said, that was fine with him.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 29, 2020, 04:42:21 PM
point?
History is cool
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 04:51:08 PM
No, it's not good.  Having a president who would like to be a dictator doesn't become a good thing just because he's not sharp enough to become one.
It's just less bad than it would be if he had an attention span longer than that of a goldfish.
He's got his finger on the nuclear button and yet he can't resist tweeting and retweeting stupid crap, including racist, alt-right, white-nationalist crap.
Conservatives/Republicans would be going through the roof if we had a Democrat in the White House doing and saying stupid, unethical, often borderline (if not outright) illegal stuff like Trump does.  But we're supposed to cheer and demand more of the same because he's "our" would-be dictator?
Imagine how you would have felt if 8 years ago someone had told you that he didn't trust any politician of either party except for Barack Obama, so whatever Barack Obama said, that was fine with him.
ok what has he done to make you think he wants to be a dictator?

what boarder line often illegal stuff are you talking about?

what racist white nationalist crap has he tweeted?

are you talking about the same Barack Obama who actually spied on the republican nominee?

pretty easy to use left talking points cause they really cant come up with examples either

you have a lot of built up animosity CW just take a deep breath and tell me what you are talking about

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 04:53:12 PM
History is cool
ok not trying to joust with you I just wanted to make sure your point didnt go over my head which is getting easier to do as the days go by
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 29, 2020, 05:06:37 PM
not sure what you mean by the first line above
The line in question is this: "And the Republicans want the cheap labor, as the Chamber of Commerce orders."

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the hundreds of local Chambers of Commerce want a steady flow of cheap-immigrant workers.  They don't care about whether the immigrants are legal or not.  They need those cheap construction workers and landscapers and nannies and poolboys.

The Dems want reliable future voters while the Repubs want current cheap labor.  The Dems are smarter on this issue, as they will benefit politically in the long run.  But the Republicans--and Trump--talk tough about illegal immigrants so they can get votes today, alienating even legal immigrants in the process.  The GOP has positioned itself--deliberately or not--as not just opposed to illegal immigration, but as the anti-immigrant party.

Which is stupid, as immigrants are a big part of our future.  Republicans can work to make America more welcoming to them, and more willing to assimilate them, or they can do what they are doing under Trump and leave them to the Democrats, who will tell them that America sucks and the only way that immigrants can survive the bigoted, hateful mass of white Americans is to lash themselves to the Democrats' wagon.

Quote
Polls have nothing to do with Trump they are from private sources mostly supported by MSM

I posted "Pols of both parties are in cahoots."

Pols are politicians.

Quote
You object to a Pres saying he can solve a problem

CW it looks to me like you just dont like the guy which is fine there are folks out there I dont like either

Pelosi

talk about a dictator man she fits that description
Every politician says he can solve a problem.  Most of them, like Trump, can't deliver.
"Don't like the guy" is the least of the problem.  The future of the country is the problem.  I don't see any evidence that Donald Trump cares about the future of the country.  He cares about himself and his family.  His idiot children and children-in-law are lining up to take his place as arbiters of the GOP.
How is Pelosi a dictator?  She's been either the Speaker of the House or the Minority Leader of the House for the last 20 years, but she's never been in an executive position.  All she can do is influence legislation.  And she does.  And the result is usually bad from a conservative perspective.  But that doesn't make her a dictator or even a would-be dictator.  (I'm pretty sure that she's smarter than Trump, but that's not saying much.)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 05:10:43 PM
The line in question is this: "And the Republicans want the cheap labor, as the Chamber of Commerce orders."

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the hundreds of local Chambers of Commerce want a steady flow of cheap-immigrant workers.  They don't care about whether the immigrants are legal or not.  They need those cheap construction workers and landscapers and nannies and poolboys.


isnt that where work visas come into play
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 05:16:11 PM

Every politician says he can solve a problem.  Most of them, like Trump, can't deliver.
"Don't like the guy" is the least of the problem.  The future of the country is the problem.  I don't see any evidence that Donald Trump cares about the future of the country.  He cares about himself and his family.  His idiot children and children-in-law are lining up to take his place as arbiters of the GOP.

again what has he done to make you feel this way

yes its very possible his children will carry on in politics so what children and spouses do this all the time
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 05:17:56 PM
if you dont see the harm Pelosi is doing to not only the dem party but the country as a whole then I dont think we have any common ground on this
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 29, 2020, 05:22:48 PM
I’d say you are right but I don’t care.  I care about what politicians do from a policy standpoint.  My guess is Trump and Biden both have personal beliefs about certain issues that are closer to the center than the voting bases they are trying to cater to.
With most politicians, I care most about policy. Because I believe that most people who enter the office of the Presidency are remade by the enormous gravity of the office.

On policy, I preferred McCain/Romney to Obama. On policy, I preferred Bush/Dole to Clinton. But I believe that Obama and Clinton both were sincerely awed by the power of the office they held and tried to faithfully discharge the demands of that office. I believe they put America first, regardless of the fact that I had policy disagreements with them.

With Trump, I don't think that he puts America first. I think he puts Trump first. His tax "cut" was part of that. The limitation on SALT deductions was intended not because he thought those deductions were bad, but because he knew that they would punish blue states that didn't vote for him. I think he is profoundly horrible person and is unfit due to poor character for the office that he holds. I could agree with him 100% on policy and that would still be true. 

I don't like "lesser of two evils" voting, but when the difference between the two evils is so significant, I'm Ridin' with Biden. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 29, 2020, 05:25:58 PM
you must have missed the dem convention

how badly Trump has handled the virus was the topic of the day

they had glee in their faces as they talked about it
I mean, at a convention, you put on a good face, say what you're going to do and crap on your opponent's policies. 

So if one were to imagine some critical election to attack an opponent on is "the greatest thing that ever happened to" the party in question, that would imply some of the greatest things to ever happen on the other side were:
-America not being "great" in 2015
-Lots of people in manufacturing losing their jobs
-Rioting and destruction of property in our present moment (even some of our folks here have said that might be an issue that could help the current president hold his post)
-People getting killed either by immigrants or in car accidents with immigrants 

These are all things people will aggressively leverage in a political sense. It does not make them the greatest thing that happened to one half of the political spectrum. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 29, 2020, 05:26:55 PM
I'm Ridin' with Biden.
This reminds me of an old Daily Show joke that makes me most squeamish. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 29, 2020, 05:27:06 PM
ok what has he done to make you think he wants to be a dictator?

what boarder line often illegal stuff are you talking about?

what racist white nationalist crap has he tweeted?

are you talking about the same Barack Obama who actually spied on the republican nominee?

pretty easy to use left talking points cause they really cant come up with examples either

you have a lot of built up animosity CW just take a deep breath and tell me what you are talking about
320: Where have you been for the last 4 years?
Do you not know that there have been six of Trump's very close associates convicted of felonies, mostly for things they did in service to him?  (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-associates-prison-faced-criminal-charges/story?id=68358219 (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-associates-prison-faced-criminal-charges/story?id=68358219))
Did you not follow his attempts to get Ukraine to "produce" some dirt on Biden under penalty of losing the air defense weapons we had previously agreed to provide? (https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/11/15/trump-resisted-ukraine-sale-javelin-antitank-missile/ (https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/11/15/trump-resisted-ukraine-sale-javelin-antitank-missile/))
Have you not heard of his retweets of racist/alt-right/Holocaust-denier tweets?
(https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-trump-retweets-right-wing-activist-associated-with-white-nationalist-group-1.8852355 (https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-trump-retweets-right-wing-activist-associated-with-white-nationalist-group-1.8852355))
(https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42166663 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42166663))
(https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/04/trump-retweets-conspiracy-theorists-far-right-figures-after-facebook-bans.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/04/trump-retweets-conspiracy-theorists-far-right-figures-after-facebook-bans.html))
(https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-retweets-infowars-and-a-far-right-personality-2019-5 (https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-retweets-infowars-and-a-far-right-personality-2019-5))
What's your point about Obama?  I asked you if someone spoke of Obama in the same worshipful, see-no-evil tones that many Trump supporters use when describing their guy, what you would think, and you responded with a rhetorical question.
You know, I've asked you flat out more than once if you would like a dictator in the White House as long as the dictator was someone like Trump.  You have not responded to that question.  May I assume that your answer is "yes"?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 29, 2020, 05:27:56 PM
Oil production would go way down
Is the worry here about oil in the context of geopolitical conflict or about the jobs tied up in oil? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 29, 2020, 05:29:49 PM
if you dont see the harm Pelosi is doing to not only the dem party but the country as a whole then I dont think we have any common ground on this
I finally see how this works.
You ask me questions, and I do my best to answer them.
I ask you questions, and you tell me that if I can't see the answer then there's nothing you can do to clue me in.
Thanks.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 05:30:01 PM
With most politicians, I care most about policy. Because I believe that most people who enter the office of the Presidency are remade by the enormous gravity of the office.

On policy, I preferred McCain/Romney to Obama. On policy, I preferred Bush/Dole to Clinton. But I believe that Obama and Clinton both were sincerely awed by the power of the office they held and tried to faithfully discharge the demands of that office. I believe they put America first, regardless of the fact that I had policy disagreements with them.

With Trump, I don't think that he puts America first. I think he puts Trump first. His tax "cut" was part of that. The limitation on SALT deductions was intended not because he thought those deductions were bad, but because he knew that they would punish blue states that didn't vote for him. I think he is profoundly horrible person and is unfit due to poor character for the office that he holds. I could agree with him 100% on policy and that would still be true.

I don't like "lesser of two evils" voting, but when the difference between the two evils is so significant, I'm Ridin' with Biden.
ok because a tax cut might help him personally we should not have had one

the blue states have nothing but themselves to blame for their greed and complete disregard for their citizens

all you haters better buckle up cause you will be very sad in a few months

I dont think Biden will carry even his own state
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 05:36:11 PM
320: Where have you been for the last 4 years?
Do you not know that there have been six of Trump's very close associates convicted of felonies, mostly for things they did in service to him?  (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-associates-prison-faced-criminal-charges/story?id=68358219 (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-associates-prison-faced-criminal-charges/story?id=68358219))
Did you not follow his attempts to get Ukraine to "produce" some dirt on Biden under penalty of losing the air defense weapons we had previously agreed to provide? (https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/11/15/trump-resisted-ukraine-sale-javelin-antitank-missile/ (https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/11/15/trump-resisted-ukraine-sale-javelin-antitank-missile/))
Have you not heard of his retweets of racist/alt-right/Holocaust-denier tweets?
(https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-trump-retweets-right-wing-activist-associated-with-white-nationalist-group-1.8852355 (https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-trump-retweets-right-wing-activist-associated-with-white-nationalist-group-1.8852355))
(https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42166663 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42166663))
(https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/04/trump-retweets-conspiracy-theorists-far-right-figures-after-facebook-bans.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/04/trump-retweets-conspiracy-theorists-far-right-figures-after-facebook-bans.html))
(https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-retweets-infowars-and-a-far-right-personality-2019-5 (https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-retweets-infowars-and-a-far-right-personality-2019-5))
What's your point about Obama?  I asked you if someone spoke of Obama in the same worshipful, see-no-evil tones that many Trump supporters use when describing their guy, what you would think, and you responded with a rhetorical question.
You know, I've asked you flat out more than once if you would like a dictator in the White House as long as the dictator was someone like Trump.  You have not responded to that question.  May I assume that your answer is "yes"?
we dont have a dictator in the WH and you continue to tell me why you think otherwise

if youre talking about Russisgate just wait and you will see real justice in the next few months

Obama was the mastermind of Russiagate thats my point

look you feel your way and I feel mine Im done
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 29, 2020, 05:50:05 PM
we dont have a dictator in the WH and you continue to tell me why you think otherwise
This is fair, as he's only a wannabe dictator, for now.
if youre talking about Russisgate just wait and you will see real justice in the next few months

Obama was the mastermind of Russiagate thats my point
...and here's where you go off the rails.
look you feel your way and I feel mine Im done
I hope good things for you, I really do.  I will celebrate with you, the moment you beat your dementia.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 29, 2020, 05:54:58 PM
ok what has he done to make you think he wants to be a dictator?

Let's see... His "joke" after meeting the Chinese President about being President for Life of "Maybe we'll give that a shot" (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/mar/04/donald-trump-praises-xi-jinping-power-grab-give-that-a-shot-china), coupled with the NUMEROUS times he's "joked"--or perhaps not (https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/politics/national-politics/trump-says-he-will-seek-third-term/291-1135bd28-9739-4dd6-a305-700cb8f29979)--about seeking a third or fourth term. His statement that the President has total authority over governors (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/13/trumps-claim-presidential-powers-gets-pushback-across-spectrum/2987065001/) when it comes to reopening their states. Maybe it's his refusal to admit he'd actually accept the outcome of a Democratic election (https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/07/19/trump-refuses-to-commit-to-accepting-election-results/#60b5ecc15add) if he loses. Maybe it's declaring critical media to be the "enemy of the people". 

Or maybe it's just the way that he treats anyone who disagrees with him, ever. They cannot ever simply be "wrong", they are evil and the enemy. 


Quote
what boarder line often illegal stuff are you talking about?
Oh, deliberately delaying Congressionally-authorized military aid (https://www.gao.gov/assets/710/703909.pdf) to the Ukraine out of an desire to extort them into benefitting his 2020 electoral campaign. Taking funds earmarked for other things to build his wall (https://www.texastribune.org/2020/06/26/military-funds-border-wall/) because Congress [and apparently Mexico] wouldn't pay for it. Maybe violating New York law (https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2019/donald-j-trump-pays-court-ordered-2-million-illegally-using-trump-foundation) by misusing charitable funds for self-promotion in campaign matters? 

I mean, that's a start. When the investigators in New York actually get their subpoena served for some tax records, there are probably a bunch of unknown financial crimes they'll uncover. But those are mostly prior to him becoming President. 


Quote
what racist white nationalist crap has he tweeted?
Trump retweeted a video where one of his supporters was chanting "white power" (https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/28/politics/trump-tweet-supporters-man-chants-white-power/index.html). White House said he "didn't see it"... 

Quote
you have a lot of built up animosity CW just take a deep breath and tell me what you are talking about

Primarily that Trump's reputation as a wannabe dictator and/or "President for Life" who plays fast and loose with [i.e. ignores] the law is well-founded. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 29, 2020, 05:59:49 PM
we dont have a dictator in the WH and you continue to tell me why you think otherwise

if youre talking about Russisgate just wait and you will see real justice in the next few months

Obama was the mastermind of Russiagate thats my point

look you feel your way and I feel mine Im done
So, you asked me for facts.  I provided links to the facts.  You didn't look at them.  You respond to them by reiterating your previous points with no facts provided.  And now you're "done."
Great.  Thanks for the discussion.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 06:03:57 PM
So, you asked me for facts.  I provided links to the facts.  You didn't look at them.  You respond to them by reiterating your previous points with no facts provided.  And now you're "done."
Great.  Thanks for the discussion.
yep you win I lose
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 29, 2020, 06:05:54 PM
ok because a tax cut might help him personally we should not have had one

the blue states have nothing but themselves to blame for their greed and complete disregard for their citizens

all you haters better buckle up cause you will be very sad in a few months

I dont think Biden will carry even his own state
Oh, trust me, I'm pretty much ALWAYS in favor of tax cuts. I'm a freakin' libertarian. Taxes are theft, bro!

The SALT limits should give you an idea into his mindset. He wanted to cut taxes on the states that voted for him, and screw those who didn't. The SALT limits costs me over a thousand dollars a year in my federal tax burden. The limitation on mortgage interest deduction was intended to punish people who live where the cost of living is highest (i.e. blue states) by limiting deductions. 

I believe 100% that the tax "cut" was designed to be punitive to blue states. That was a feature in the plan, not a bug. Because that's Trump. We didn't vote for him, so he wants to hurt us. 

Quite literally, Trump is that easy to read. If you are nice to him, he rewards you. If you are mean to him, he wants to cause you pain in any possible way he can. 

I personally expect better from the leader of the free world.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 29, 2020, 06:11:08 PM
I hope good things for you, I really do.  I will celebrate with you, the moment you beat your dementia. 
Says the moronic child of this board. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 29, 2020, 06:13:06 PM
The Bulwark
The Triad
Three things to read from JVL

1. Double Standards
One of the arguments you often hear from apologists for the police goes like this:

"Sure, the cops shouldn't have done that, but if the guy had simply done what he was told by the police it never would have happened."

The idea is that however disproportionate or unlawful the actions of a police officer might be, citizens should expect that not immediately and submissively complying with a directive from a cop will result in beating, arrest, or death. Because that's just the way things are.

The nice version of this argument is that police are constantly concerned for their own safety and so we should expect them to be on a hair trigger in every situation. Even if they outnumber the citizen. Even if they have firearms and the citizen is not brandishing a weapon. They have to use overwhelming force because if they tell a protestor to leave a public place and the fellow doesn't do so immediately, then he might pull a bazooka out of his pocket or something.

I would like to believe this nice version, because it would suggest that police who abuse their authority do so purely out of rational fear for their own safety.

But there's a passage from a story (https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/08/26/kenosha-shooting-shots-fired-during-protest-injuries-reported/3441271001/) in the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel about the night of August 25, when a militia member shot three people and killed two:
 

Quote
Journal-Sentinel reporter earlier in the evening observed a group of armed men with long guns standing guard at a dry cleaning business on Sheridan Road near 59th Street, some on the roof.
Police told them to get off the roof and a person shouted back: "Officer, this is our business." Police did not ultimately order them off the roof.

So much for "comply with any police order immediately or you get what's coming to you."

I am not saying that the cops should have shot the guys on the roof. Maybe the guys with long guns on the roof really were on their own private property. Maybe they engaged in a polite, civil dialogue with the police. Maybe the police deescalated a potentially dangerous situation without resorting to force. If so, that's great! That's their job!

However, this is just one more data point demonstrating that police behave differently when they are faced with citizens who are obviously armed and dangerous than they do when they face citizens who they only suspect might be armed. If you're an unarmed guy on a public street and you don't move the exact second an officer tells you to, then you get this (https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/16/us/martin-gugino-protester-skull/index.html), or this (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/07/27/national-guard-commander-says-police-suddenly-moved-lafayette-square-protesters-used-excessive-force-clear-path-trump/), or this (https://www.vox.com/2020/6/12/21279619/protesters-police-violence-philadelphia-los-angeles-washington-dc), or this (https://twitter.com/tkerssen/status/1266921821653385225).

If you are part of a group armed with guns and the police tell you to do something, you get this (https://thebulwark.com/newsletter-issue/a-tale-of-two-protests/), or this (https://www.businessinsider.com/kenosha-police-thanked-armed-militia-and-gave-water-2020-8), or this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqqFB-tN1DQ&t=1332s). Or the police order you to get off a roof with your rifles and instead of getting shot for not immediately complying, you have a productive conversation which ends with the police moving along while you get your way.

I mean, it's either that or race has something to do with it. It's a mystery.

A Note on Police Reform
A couple weeks ago I got a long, thoughtful email from a law man explaining that when we talk about "police reform" we're reducing to shorthand a subject that is incredibly complicated. I want to share his thoughts with you, but he asked me to keep his name out of it, so we'll just call him Jonah Hex (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonah_Hex):
 

Quote
I am a peace officer who was in uniformed patrol for the last twelve years before transitioning to a weird, specialty law enforcement job (at a great time, too!) that has given me time to reflect upon patrol work. It’s like waking up slowly from a strange dream.

There is a widespread assumption that police administrators would fire incompetent officers if not for the powerful police unions. This is . . . an incomplete picture at best. It’s almost impossible to generalize about policing in America. In California, where I work, police officers make a good middle-class income. I have a friend who worked for New Orleans PD who told me they started at $17/hr, and he knew cops who were single moms who were on food stamps. In the same way, police unions have a wide range of sway over police administrators in different parts of the country.

There are incentives for police administrators to retain incompetent officers that have nothing to do with unions. A police department is a hungry beast that needs to be fed cops regularly. When economic times are good, no one wants to be a police officer. There is better money to be made without the lifestyle downsides that come with police work. Inevitably, departments start to drop well below their “minimum” staffing. In my area, many departments are 25-30% below minimum. I know of one big-city division that used to staff 9 officers on patrol. The minimum staffing was revised down to 6 due to the general lack of cops. When people are sick or on vacation, they will go as low as 4. Needless to say, their response time isn’t stellar.

I saw this dynamic play out during my career. When I was hired, shortly before the mortgage meltdown, people thought I was crazy to go into policing. I was able to land a job with my preferred agency, but I would have been able to get a position elsewhere. My agency paid my way through the academy and supplied all of my equipment. While there weren’t as many candidates due to the good economy, my agency was still able to be choosy as it was nearly fully staffed.

Once the Great Recession hit, there was a sudden interest in policing. My agency had its pick of candidates who had put themselves through the academy. The overall quality of candidates improved. When the rare lemon was hired, I witnessed unsuitable trainees getting fired during training for poor performance.

The latest economic boom coincided with a shortage of officers due to a previous hiring freeze. The quality and depth of the applicant pool was greatly diminished, and we were in the midst of a large wave of retirements.

By this point, I was a training officer. I saw my recommendations to remove unsuitable trainees for performance that had been unacceptable to that point ignored. The attitude of the command was that—barring any illegal behavior—trainees could be “fixed” later. This proved overly optimistic. It is very difficult to fix poor character or decision making.

I understand the administration’s quandary. They need cops. It takes about 9 months from the time of a retirement until a trainee is in the academy. Our academy is 6 months. My agency had an extra-long, nearly 6 month field-training phase. So after almost 2 years, to be told the appropriately $100,000 spent on hiring and training this person-who you hand picked was all for naught? That is a bitter pill to swallow. The sunk-cost fallacy is overwhelming at that point.

All of this goes back to what I wrote at the beginning of this movement (https://thebulwark.com/newsletter-issue/how-many-bad-apples-are-we-really-talking-about/) following the killing of George Floyd: We have a number of overlapping problems and solving them requires identifying them, disentangling them, addressing them individually.

One more note of interest from Jonah Hex:
 

Quote
COVID has had an impact in cop world. The Officer Down Memorial Page tracks line-of-duty deaths. I often used it with my trainees to show them that cars were as dangerous as guns to cops. Here is the current year page: https://www.odmp.org/search/year/2020 (https://www.odmp.org/search/year/2020).

There are currently 82 COVID deaths listed. Last I checked, there were no NYPD deaths listed, but about 30 NYPD cops have died from COVID. These are duty related. I know of two Riverside County, CA deputies who died of COVID the same week. Only one was duty related, and that is the only one listed on ODMP. For perspective, 145 officers died in 2019. If you take 5/12 of that (equal to the pandemic so far) that is about 60. COVID has far more than doubled the risk of being a cop.

Given the impact on older officers, I predict a lot of extra retirements this year. When policing is slightly less popular than a violent bout of food poisoning, I don’t see a lot of volunteers to take their places.


The idea that COVID could kill more officers in the line of duty this year than all other causes of death is pretty striking.

Also striking: After this year, think about the kind of people who would really want to become cops. I can think of two general types: Those who want to fix law enforcement and those who like what they've seen.

I suspect the latter group might be larger than the former.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2020, 06:13:26 PM
My GUESS is the tax cut plan was hatched pretty much entirely in Congress.  I'm not sure Trump even knew what was in it when he signed it.  I could be wrong.

The standard deduction went way up to offset part of the SALT deduction limitation.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 29, 2020, 06:14:52 PM
Don’t worry 320. I may not be a fan of Trump but I can see right through the bullshit they’re feeding you.

Who refused to except the results of the last election? LOL and who still refuses to except it.

And who is saying let’s not go do the debates? And who is saying we shouldn’t except results if Trump wins?

And he’s talking about trying to get Ukraine to do something? Who do we have on tape bragging about extortion against Ukraine? Hint his name rhymes with Lye-den. Same guy who son is getting paid lots of money to be an absentee in a Chinese corporation

Now if you’ll excuse me I have to go back to watching the video I was watching of a black man physically assaulting to traffic agents in New York, who were unarmed, because they asked him to move his car away from a fire hydrant. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 29, 2020, 06:21:47 PM
My GUESS is the tax cut plan was hatched pretty much entirely in Congress.  I'm not sure Trump even knew what was in it when he signed it.  I could be wrong.

The standard deduction went way up to offset part of the SALT deduction limitation.
My guess is that Donald Trump cannot understand a Form 1040, much less tax policy.  He pays people to think about complicated things for him and then fires them when his gut doesn't like what they have told him.
I'm sorry--I misspoke there.  He doesn't fire anyone.  He doesn't have the cojones for that, just as he doesn't have the cojones to stand up to Putin or Xi or even Kim.  He gets his surrogates to trash them in the mainstream media, on Fox News, and on Twitter.  Then he tweets that "people are saying . . . ."  Eventually, they quit.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2020, 06:23:32 PM
I gather CWS is not a big Trump fan, but I could be wrong.

Neither am I.  

Anyway, back to discussing football and other apolitical topics, like special relativity.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 29, 2020, 06:34:31 PM
My GUESS is the tax cut plan was hatched pretty much entirely in Congress.  I'm not sure Trump even knew what was in it when he signed it.  I could be wrong.

The standard deduction went way up to offset part of the SALT deduction limitation. 
Trump's a buffoon, but he's a buffoon who knows the difference between hurting "his" people and hurting the others.

Again, the Republican party wanted a tax cut for the rich. They needed a way to cut down the total price tag, and what better than to screw blue state folks? 

And remember, while SALT doesn't require itemization, mortgage interest is itemized. Raising the standard deduction helps those in red states whose property values are low enough that they still can't itemize by giving them a bigger deduction. At the same time, limiting the mortgage interest deduction based on housing value makes it such that the people who would still be able to itemize beyond the raised standard deduction lose a huge portion of that advantage. 

And again, the SALT deduction limit is particularly pernicious. Yes, here in California we know our taxes are high. But the Trump tax plan basically says I'm taxed on income I never received because the state of California took it. I'm not a homeowner [currently], so I don't even have the option of deducting property taxes. It's purely CA income taxes. Last year the federal government taxed me on almost $5000 that the state of California took from me. So I was taxed on money I didn't receive. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2020, 06:36:57 PM
There are aspects of that tax cut that favored the middle class obviously who don't pay high state income taxes, specifically the increase in the standard deduction.

As to their motivation, maybe they did want to hurt blue staters, but "they" I suspect would be folks in Congress who wrote the bill.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 29, 2020, 06:44:27 PM
There are aspects of that tax cut that favored the middle class obviously who don't pay high state income taxes, specifically the increase in the standard deduction.

As to their motivation, maybe they did want to hurt blue staters, but "they" I suspect would be folks in Congress who wrote the bill.
Right. Help middle-class people in red states, screw middle-class people in blue states. 

And while I'm sure Trump is no expert on tax policy, but he knows how to tell his cronies in Congress who to hurt...

Wait... I take that back. Trump is an expert on taxes. He's an expert on everything... Just ask him. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=sR3f95BGIiA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=sR3f95BGIiA)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 29, 2020, 06:46:38 PM
Right. Help middle-class people in red states, screw middle-class people in blue states.

And while I'm sure Trump is no expert on tax policy, but he knows how to tell his cronies in Congress who to hurt...

Wait... I take that back. Trump is an expert on taxes. He's an expert on everything... Just ask him.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=sR3f95BGIiA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=sR3f95BGIiA)
He really is in your head.  For such an intelligent dude/ which clearly you are - this shocks me. You seem to be able to read his mind. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 29, 2020, 06:49:46 PM
Reading Trump's mind...

(https://i.imgur.com/rut0lxL.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 29, 2020, 06:50:11 PM
For those of you with a genuine interest in policing protests:
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2020/06/01/why-so-many-police-are-handling-the-protests-wrong (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2020/06/01/why-so-many-police-are-handling-the-protests-wrong)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 29, 2020, 06:53:02 PM
He really is in your head.  For such an intelligent dude/ which clearly you are - this shocks me. You seem to be able to read his mind.
It's not hard to read his mind. He's utterly transparent. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 29, 2020, 06:54:29 PM
For those of you with a genuine interest in policing protests:
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2020/06/01/why-so-many-police-are-handling-the-protests-wrong (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2020/06/01/why-so-many-police-are-handling-the-protests-wrong)
I've found it challenging to get law enforcement to change their practices, but not impossible.  Depends a lot on who is in charge and framing it in a way that makes sense (like this article).  But protests are unpredictable and not really on the radar of your average day to day operations manager.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 29, 2020, 07:00:29 PM
It's not hard to read his mind. He's utterly transparent.
He's a liar, and extremely vain, but if you listen to him for 30 seconds you have a pretty good idea on what's going on in his head.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 29, 2020, 07:03:28 PM
Let me give you real life example of Double Standard( not to mention corruption)


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UXA--dj2-CY
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 29, 2020, 07:06:50 PM
And the ultimate Dem hypocrisy 


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/30/who-is-tara-reade-biden-accuser/
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 07:22:45 PM
For those of you with a genuine interest in policing protests:
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2020/06/01/why-so-many-police-are-handling-the-protests-wrong (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2020/06/01/why-so-many-police-are-handling-the-protests-wrong)
so we are pretending the police are causing the violence

thats crap
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 29, 2020, 07:23:29 PM
Let me give you real life example of Double Standard( not to mention corruption)


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UXA--dj2-CY
What am I supposed to do with this?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 07:26:38 PM
What am I supposed to do with this?
you hit the little triangle in the middle of the photo
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 29, 2020, 07:27:30 PM
What am I supposed to do with this?
Use it to illustrate what political extortion, bribery, and liberal hypocrisy look like, and then keep it top of mind before you sling those arrows at others.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 29, 2020, 07:27:52 PM
you hit the little triangle in the middle of the photo
😂😂😂😂😂.   
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 29, 2020, 07:32:34 PM
you hit the little triangle in the middle of the photo
(https://i.imgur.com/UwzZzjQ.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 29, 2020, 07:38:59 PM
you hit the little triangle in the middle of the photo
320- that made me laugh until my cheeks and gut hurt.   Thank you- I needed a good laugh.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 29, 2020, 07:40:26 PM
Use it to illustrate what political extortion, bribery, and liberal hypocrisy look like, and then keep it top of mind before you sling those arrows at others. 
But I can't.  It's a video of Biden bragging about getting a Ukrainian prosecutor fired, which is true.  The conspiracy theory is that he did this to somehow benefit his son, who sat on the Board of Directors for Burisma Holdings, a natural gas company in Ukraine.  The problem is this hasn't held up under even the briefest scrutiny, mostly because (1) many people wanted the prosecutor removed because he was corrupt and (2) he wasn't aggressively going after Burisma or Biden, so the theory makes no sense.  So what we have is Biden bragging about getting a corrupt prosecutor removed. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 29, 2020, 07:47:20 PM
And arguing about Biden's corruption (and I believe that he's at least as corrupt as the average pol) doesn't say one thing about Trump's corruption.

It's, "Look! Halley's Comet!"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 29, 2020, 08:04:48 PM
I'm glad that, despite some yukking it up about "bagging a few," we are all agreed that no decent person would take joy in shooting protesters.

(https://i.imgur.com/jQn9rkQ.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/4v2u5n8.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 08:05:42 PM
And arguing about Biden's corruption (and I believe that he's at least as corrupt as the average pol) doesn't say one thing about Trump's corruption.

It's, "Look! Halley's Comet!"
Bidens corruption makes Trump look like a boy scout

So after Biden gets the Ukrainian prosecutor fired to keep him from investigating the company paying his son a lot of money for "advising"

He then takes his son with him on a trip to China and guess what China enters into a billion dollar deal with his son who woulda thought

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 29, 2020, 08:08:16 PM
I'm glad that, despite some yukking it up about "bagging a few," we are all agreed that no decent person would take joy in shooting protesters.



It would be like mowing down a bunch of pedophiles, in that it sounds like it would be fun in theory, but would probably be rather unenjoyable if you actually went through with it. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 29, 2020, 08:16:49 PM
But I can't.  It's a video of Biden bragging about getting a Ukrainian prosecutor fired, which is true.  The conspiracy theory is that he did this to somehow benefit his son, who sat on the Board of Directors for Burisma Holdings, a natural gas company in Ukraine.  The problem is this hasn't held up under even the briefest scrutiny, mostly because (1) many people wanted the prosecutor removed because he was corrupt and (2) he wasn't aggressively going after Burisma or Biden, so the theory makes no sense.  So what we have is Biden bragging about getting a corrupt prosecutor removed.
That’s an interesting rendition.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 29, 2020, 08:19:11 PM
And arguing about Biden's corruption (and I believe that he's at least as corrupt as the average pol) doesn't say one thing about Trump's corruption.

It's, "Look! Halley's Comet!"
So who is saying- Hey! Look over here!
its a two way street- and it is EXACTLY what I am calling you, Sam and Bwar our for. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 08:20:30 PM
320- that made me laugh until my cheeks and gut hurt.  Thank you- I needed a good laugh. 
thankya thankya very much

Im here all week
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 29, 2020, 08:21:46 PM
I'm glad that, despite some yukking it up about "bagging a few," we are all agreed that no decent person would take joy in shooting protesters.

(https://i.imgur.com/jQn9rkQ.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/4v2u5n8.png)

It is disgusting.  Repulsive. 

But not surprising. That’s how fight in wars start usually. People get scared in the next stages of anger and revenge.  According to many on this forum that’s why the protests are happening to begin with!

I am iMagine these people are just not able to handle seeing video after video of protesters beating people senseless in gangs in, hives and cheering each other on.  I watched a bunch more today.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 29, 2020, 08:22:19 PM
Bidens corruption makes Trump look like a boy scout

So after Biden gets the Ukrainian prosecutor fired to keep him from investigating the company paying his son a lot of money for "advising"

He then takes his son with him on a trip to China and guess what China enters into a billion dollar deal with his son who woulda thought


Is this...Biden Derangement Syndrome?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 08:25:18 PM
Is this...Biden Derangement Syndrome?
truth hurts dont it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 29, 2020, 08:25:26 PM
Is this...Biden Derangement Syndrome?
A 50 year politician with a track record. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 08:34:19 PM
a little more detail on Hunter's China connection

https://nypost.com/2019/10/10/6-facts-about-hunter-bidens-business-dealings-in-china/ (https://nypost.com/2019/10/10/6-facts-about-hunter-bidens-business-dealings-in-china/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 29, 2020, 08:40:56 PM
That’s an interesting rendition. 
Well conspiracy theories are all the rage and it's easy to get sucked up in them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 08:47:07 PM
Well conspiracy theories are all the rage and it's easy to get sucked up in them.
well you guys should know
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 29, 2020, 08:49:13 PM
well you guys should know
Hey now. Anyway you're right Biden was a Senator for like six terms plus veep for two more. It's not like there isn't a record there to attack. No need to make stuff up.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 08:57:13 PM
Hey now. Anyway you're right Biden was a Senator for like six terms plus veep for two more. It's not like there isn't a record there to attack. No need to make stuff up.
ok I'll bite what is made up
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 29, 2020, 09:05:20 PM
ok I'll bite what is made up
The whole Ukraine Hunter Biden thing. There's nothing there but trying to Monday Morning Quarterback a bunch of nothing into a scandal
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 29, 2020, 09:13:04 PM
So who is saying- Hey! Look over here!
its a two way street- and it is EXACTLY what I am calling you, Sam and Bwar our for.
HB, a couple of months ago you said that you despised Trump and Biden both, but that you were going to (in so many words) hold your nose and vote for Trump.
That's an understandable position.  And one would think that someone who holds that position would understand why somebody else could despise them both but be reluctantly voting for Biden.
But that's not how you post these days.  Now you are all-in for Trump.  You can't acknowledge any flaws or mistakes.  Any criticism of the Great Man seems to be like blasphemy.
What caused the change?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 29, 2020, 09:18:02 PM
I will not be voting for Trump nor Biden.

Trump is a petulant child, a horrible communicator, and not the worlds greatest leader by 20 miles.  His tweets are often an embarrassment.
I just don’t like him. 

On the other hand I don’t feel he was ever given a chance from a policy standpoint. I feel like the Democrats are the divisive ones the racist ones the corrupt ones and I feel like the media backs their play. So when I see people on here calling Trump out for all kinds of shit, most of which I actually don’t agree with, I just see hypocrisy in spades.

The Democrats spent four years on a personal vendetta out to get him and anything that he touched. I’ve never been so disgusted with a political party in my life.

Wow I hate him and his style and his communication I have generally agreed with most all of his of his policies.  The Democrats on the other hand have done nothing, and I mean nothing but waste taxpayer money chasing after him.

Does that answer your question?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 09:19:10 PM
The whole Ukraine Hunter Biden thing. There's nothing there but trying to Monday Morning Quarterback a bunch of nothing into a scandal
The prosecutor in question was investigating a company which had financial ties to Biden's son

Biden threatened to hold up aid if that prosecutor wasnt fired

seems pretty straight forward to me

what part of that was incorrect
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 29, 2020, 09:19:52 PM
Let me add- I firmly believe it is the Democrats that have politicized the pandemic, and the racial injustice in this country.   Oh yes the Republicans have jumped into that game as well but I have never seen a political party throw common sense to the wind and back whatever was politically convenient at the time the way the Democrats have.  Just look what they try to do to Cavanaugh. That was criminal
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 09:26:27 PM
Let me add- I firmly believe it is the Democrats that have politicized the pandemic, and the racial injustice in this country.  Oh yes the Republicans have jumped into that game as well but I have never seen a political party throw common sense to the wind and back whatever was politically convenient at the time the way the Democrats have.  Just look what they try to do to Cavanaugh. That was criminal
HB Im sending you a MAGA hat in the mail

you can wear it in private if you like

seriously if you vote 3rd party thats a vote for Trump so you might as well go all in
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 29, 2020, 09:29:27 PM
The prosecutor in question was investigating a company which had financial ties to Biden's son

Biden threatened to hold up aid if that prosecutor wasnt fired

seems pretty straight forward to me

what part of that was incorrect
The investigation started under a different prosecutor and before Biden was on the board. The investigation had nothing to do with Biden. The the prosecutor that was fired did nothing against the company or Biden. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 29, 2020, 09:49:42 PM
I will not be voting for Trump nor Biden.

Trump is a petulant child, a horrible communicator, and not the worlds greatest leader by 20 miles.  His tweets are often an embarrassment.
I just don’t like him.

On the other hand I don’t feel he was ever given a chance from a policy standpoint. I feel like the Democrats are the divisive ones the racist ones the corrupt ones and I feel like the media backs their play. So when I see people on here calling Trump out for all kinds of shit, most of which I actually don’t agree with, I just see hypocrisy in spades.

The Democrats spent four years on a personal vendetta out to get him and anything that he touched. I’ve never been so disgusted with a political party in my life.

Wow I hate him and his style and his communication I have generally agreed with most all of his of his policies.  The Democrats on the other hand have done nothing, and I mean nothing but waste taxpayer money chasing after him.

Does that answer your question?
I think it just leaves me puzzled in a different way.
I agree with you on the Left never giving him a chance.  The "Resistance" formed about the day after the election and it hasn't let up.  There was the pre-planned riot on Inauguration Day, the Million Vaginas March, etc.  I attended a seminar given be the Society of Early Americanists (or something like that) at the U. of Tulsa right after that, and the panelists didn't have one thing to say about early America.  It was all about how to inoculate students against Trump.  It was disgusting, and I wrote to the administration at TU to tell them so.
But--at the same time--he made his own bed.  He never made any effort to conciliate the opposition the way that George W. Bush did after he won despite losing the popular vote (the first time it had happened since the 1876 election).  Bush was not the smartest president we have ever had, but he was smart enough to know that he had to legitimize his election by seeking (and getting) some buy-in from the Democrats.  And he did it, with both style and substance.  He renamed the DoJ building after Bobby Kennedy.  He launched "No Child Left Behind," Ted Kennedy's brainchild, and he both praised the program and gave the credit to its author.  It all fell apart over Iraq, but for awhile there, especially after 9/11, we had some national unity.
Donald J. Trump has done none of that.  He was abrasive and divisive on the campaign trail in 2016, he was the same on Inauguration Day, and he has been the same every day of his presidency.
It could have been so much better.  He could have made it so much better.  I was hoping he would make it so much better.
But he didn't, and I think he's got to go.
I was planning on voting for the Libertarian, as I did in 2016.  But one of my stepsons, who supported Trump in 2016 and is now living in London, told me that that was a cop-out.  And I think that he was right.  So I'll hold my nose and vote for Joe Biden, the "wise old head" of the Democratic Party who I believe is really the Village Idiot in disguise.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 09:50:02 PM
The investigation started under a different prosecutor and before Biden was on the board. The investigation had nothing to do with Biden. The the prosecutor that was fired did nothing against the company or Biden.
Im not sure where you are getting your info but the prosecutor that was fired was investigating Burisma Holdings which is the company having financial ties to Hunter Biden.  This has never been in dispute.

If you have some article you want to reference post it I'll read it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 29, 2020, 10:03:25 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/10/29/business/media/fact-check-biden-ukraine-burisma-china-hunter.amp.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2019/10/1/20891510/hunter-biden-burisma-ukraine-shokin
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 10:10:10 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/10/29/business/media/fact-check-biden-ukraine-burisma-china-hunter.amp.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2019/10/1/20891510/hunter-biden-burisma-ukraine-shokin
Neither article disputes the facts Ive stated

They say theres no proof that Bidens actions were to help his son but so what
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 29, 2020, 10:11:41 PM
Neither article disputes the facts Ive stated

They say theres no proof that Bidens actions were to help his son but so what
Well it's not a scandal if he wasn't helping his son
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 29, 2020, 10:16:19 PM
Well it's not a scandal if he wasn't helping his son
I didnt say he was not helping his son

in fact he was

I said the articles you posted said there is no evidence that Biden did what he did just to help his son

basically because there were other reasons to fire the prosecutor then it was not a conflict of interest which is hog wash

Biden at the very least should have recused himself

and I could let all that go if it wasnt for the China conflict of interest later on
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 29, 2020, 11:22:55 PM
I think it just leaves me puzzled in a different way.
I agree with you on the Left never giving him a chance.  The "Resistance" formed about the day after the election and it hasn't let up.  There was the pre-planned riot on Inauguration Day, the Million Vaginas March, etc.  I attended a seminar given be the Society of Early Americanists (or something like that) at the U. of Tulsa right after that, and the panelists didn't have one thing to say about early America.  It was all about how to inoculate students against Trump.  It was disgusting, and I wrote to the administration at TU to tell them so.
But--at the same time--he made his own bed.  He never made any effort to conciliate the opposition the way that George W. Bush did after he won despite losing the popular vote (the first time it had happened since the 1876 election).  Bush was not the smartest president we have ever had, but he was smart enough to know that he had to legitimize his election by seeking (and getting) some buy-in from the Democrats.  And he did it, with both style and substance.  He renamed the DoJ building after Bobby Kennedy.  He launched "No Child Left Behind," Ted Kennedy's brainchild, and he both praised the program and gave the credit to its author.  It all fell apart over Iraq, but for awhile there, especially after 9/11, we had some national unity.
Donald J. Trump has done none of that.  He was abrasive and divisive on the campaign trail in 2016, he was the same on Inauguration Day, and he has been the same every day of his presidency.
It could have been so much better.  He could have made it so much better.  I was hoping he would make it so much better.
But he didn't, and I think he's got to go.
I was planning on voting for the Libertarian, as I did in 2016.  But one of my stepsons, who supported Trump in 2016 and is now living in London, told me that that was a cop-out.  And I think that he was right.  So I'll hold my nose and vote for Joe Biden, the "wise old head" of the Democratic Party who I believe is really the Village Idiot in disguise.
I can’t say I disagree with a word of this.

maybe the now failed hopes we ( you, I and others)had of a non politician taking a swing ( like 847 reminds us, it should be people from the private sector, come in, serve, get back out) are weighing heavier in my mind than the career politicians, the “ swamp”, acting like whiny little brats and trying to bring the outsider down even when it is clearly at the expense of the greater good.

Maybe his complete lack of polish is easier for me to excuse than the left’s complete lack of polish, being that,  that whole crew is career politicians. 

Maybe it is because I strongly disagree with the positions the left takes while my dislike of him is more around style and personality.

Maybe because 5 of the 6 MSM outlets have spent 4 years spinning a false narrative about his policies ( he gave them plenty of ammo on his communication fuck ups and personal lack of appeal)

either way, my dislike for him is usually outweighed by my disgust of them.

But like 2016, and 2012, I can not, in good conscience, mark a ballot for either candidate.

To give you some additional flavor, I voted for Obama in 08.  Even though I was not a fan of his policies- I just felt it was time for some change. And I was excited by the prospect of electing a black president.  He excited me with his communication style and ability to reach young voters. I went against my personal safety net of substance over style, and chose style. He was, and still is an extremely effective communicator.

Well it did not take me long to regret that. I became vehemently opposed to his approach to nearly everything, and the way the MSM babied him. By the way, touching on something you said ( and I find this a recurring theme- things Trump gets clipped for that his opponents or Dems are just as guilty of) my disdain for Obama started and grew from his now famous quip to McCain and the Republicans Who were trying to compromise on the new healthcare, “you lost the election and you don’t get a say in this“.  I specifically remember how the media cheered that line. Just think about that in the context of our current situation.

what it made me realize is that in this modern era of proliferated social media and online communication, politics is driven by 3 to 5 second soundbites and narratives and severely altered by media outlets and not by the candidates for the policies themselves. Obama was great at it.  Trump is not only bad at it, he is a sitting duck for the media.  He can make a 30 minute speech and say eight great things but all I see or hear or read about the next day is his 2 stupid or inappropriate things.


I guess I’m hoping that in my lifetime we will find a candidate that’s good at communication side that also gets me excited about their ability to compromise, reach many many different factions which we have in this country, and knows how to leverage social media for good versus bad.  Probably a pipe dream
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 30, 2020, 12:28:14 AM
Says the moronic child of this board.
Dementia is rare in children.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 30, 2020, 12:42:31 AM
HB:

I didn't vote for Obama, but I really thought that the silver lining of his presidency could be that black Americans would have an example that a smart, hard-working non-athlete black man with a good education and good family values could overcome all obstacles and become President of the United States of America.

But he didn't really play that up.  Instead, every time something that could be seen as racially unjust, whether the facts warranted it or not, he played the grievance card.

And instead of great progress, it seems like we've gone backward in race relations.  Maybe not.  Maybe, somehow, despite what seems to be all evidence to the contrary, we're turning a corner in the right direction now.

Or maybe what it's going to take is 300 million examples of one black person and one white person developing trust in each other.

Maybe.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 30, 2020, 12:44:58 AM
HB:

I didn't vote for Obama, but I really thought that the silver lining of his presidency could be that black Americans would have an example that a smart, hard-working non-athlete black man with a good education and good family values could overcome all obstacles and become President of the United States of America.

But he didn't really play that up.  Instead, every time something that could be seen as racially unjust, whether the facts warranted it or not, he played the grievance card.

And instead of great progress, it seems like we've gone backward in race relations.  Maybe not.  Maybe, somehow, despite what seems to be all evidence to the contrary, we're turning a corner in the right direction now.

Or maybe what it's going to take is 300 million examples of one black person and one white person developing trust in each other.

Maybe.
Hope.  I really do. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2020, 07:05:39 AM
I decided a while back to stop voting for the LOTE.  I personally see that as a cop out.  I also know my single vote doesn't matter anyway, my preference is to not vote, but the wife wants to vote so I go with her.

As I've said before, I view voting as the "opiate of the masses".

Give me someone to vote FOR and maybe I'll show some enthusiasm.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 30, 2020, 07:48:55 AM


But he didn't really play that up.  Instead, every time something that could be seen as racially unjust, whether the facts warranted it or not, he played the grievance card.


Man, people do see things differently.  I thought Obama went way out of his way to not make things about race.  Farther than he should have.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 30, 2020, 07:52:48 AM
Man, people do see things differently.  I thought Obama went way out of his way to not make things about race.  Farther than he should have.
Whenever their was a cop shooting, like the guy who shot the 5 cops in Dallas, Obama fanned the flames.  He said something like “ I mderstand it- back people are angry”. 

I will NEVER forget that.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 30, 2020, 07:59:41 AM
https://abcnews.go.com/US/president-obama-receiving-regular-updates-dallas-shooting/story?id=40425624 (https://abcnews.go.com/US/president-obama-receiving-regular-updates-dallas-shooting/story?id=40425624)

President Barack Obama has described the Dallas shootings (http://abcnews.go.com/US/shots-fired-dallas-amid-protest-recent-police-killings/story?id=40422456) as a "vicious, calculated, despicable attack." He made the comments while speaking to reporters Friday morning in Warsaw, Poland.
Snipers shot at police officers at a demonstration in Dallas (http://abcnews.go.com/topics/news/dallas-shooting.htm) on Thursday night, killing five and injuring seven others.

Obama described the killings as a "tremendous tragedy" and as "senseless murders."
He said of the suspects, "We will learn more about their twisted motivations. Let's be clear: There is no possible justification" for the attacks.
He promised that "justice will be done."


The president continued, "Let me just say, even as yesterday I spoke about our need to be concerned as all Americans about racial discrimination in our criminal justice system, I also said our police have an extremely difficult job and the vast majority do their job in outstanding fashion."

And in a nod to the heated issue of gun control, he said, "We also know when people are armed with powerful weapons, unfortunately it makes attacks like these more deadly and more tragic. And in the days ahead we are going to have to consider those realities as well.”


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2020, 08:06:17 AM
And in a nod to the heated issue of gun control, he said, "We also know when people are armed with powerful weapons, unfortunately it makes attacks like these more deadly and more tragic. And in the days ahead we are going to have to consider those realities as well.”


Classic Obama, "in the days ahead" ... and then ... nothing, nada, not a peep.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 30, 2020, 08:06:55 AM
https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/once-again-obama-tries-to-deflect-blame-for-police-shootings/


I got my cop killings mixed up.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 30, 2020, 08:15:11 AM
Classic Obama, "in the days ahead" ... and then ... nothing, nada, not a peep. 
Well he'd only be president for six more months.  Obama made several executive actions on gun control, but with no support from the legislature there really isn't a lot for him to do, plus it was never a big goal of his anyway, though the Sandy Hook shooting clearly caused a change there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 30, 2020, 08:17:07 AM
https://americanmilitarynews.com/2016/07/obama-criticizes-police-fans-flames-during-dallas-police-memorial-service/
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 30, 2020, 08:18:52 AM
https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/once-again-obama-tries-to-deflect-blame-for-police-shootings/


I got my cop killings mixed up. 
This is what I could find from that speech - https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/baton-rouge-police-ambush/obama-attacks-police-are-attack-all-us-n611246 (https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/baton-rouge-police-ambush/obama-attacks-police-are-attack-all-us-n611246)

"The death of these three brave officers underscores the danger that police across the country confront every single day," Obama said. "We as a nation have to be loud and clear that nothing justifies violence against law enforcement. Attacks on police are an attack on all of us and the rule of law that makes society possible."

These do not appear to me to be the words of someone trying to make every issue about race.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2020, 08:20:24 AM
Well he'd only be president for six more months.  Obama made several executive actions on gun control, but with no support from the legislature there really isn't a lot for him to do, plus it was never a big goal of his anyway, though the Sandy Hook shooting clearly caused a change there.
As I said, words, and then nothing.  It was never a big goal I reckon.

Even in 2009-2010 when he basically had Congress on his side.  Not a big goal, says it all.  What were his big goals anyway?

They must have been really high priorities when one considers all the verbiage attached to gun control.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 30, 2020, 08:21:40 AM
This reminds me of an old Daily Show joke that makes me most squeamish.
well what was it i was a periodic viewer
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 30, 2020, 08:24:31 AM
https://americanmilitarynews.com/2016/07/obama-criticizes-police-fans-flames-during-dallas-police-memorial-service/
I guess my thought is I've heard people talk about trust a lot.  Part of that is understanding that racism exists, it hurts black people, and they aren't going to be happy about that fact.  Every time you say we shouldn't talk about it, you are saying that issue is unimportant.  Why should any black person trust any white person who claims it isn't an issue?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 30, 2020, 08:26:19 AM
As I said, words, and then nothing.  It was never a big goal I reckon.

Even in 2009-2010 when he basically had Congress on his side.  Not a big goal, says it all.  What were his big goals anyway?

They must have been really high priorities when one considers all the verbiage attached to gun control.
Health care reform,, which he was the most successful president on since Lyndon Johnson, I suppose.  Also economy recovery, which turned out pretty well too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2020, 08:27:16 AM
Health care reform,, which he was the most successful president on since Lyndon Johnson, I suppose.  Also economy recovery, which turned out pretty well too.
Nothing else?  Those were mostly completed in 2010, at least the economy was recovering by then, whatever Obama had done to promote that is fine.  And then?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 30, 2020, 08:28:48 AM
Health care reform,, which he was the most successful president on since Lyndon Johnson, I suppose.  Also economy recovery, which turned out pretty well too.
Yes.   Health care reform, passed unconstitutionally.  “ you will keep your doctor”
all I can do is laugh at the huge mess he created. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 30, 2020, 08:30:22 AM
I guess my thought is I've heard people talk about trust a lot.  Part of that is understanding that racism exists, it hurts black people, and they aren't going to be happy about that fact.  Every time you say we shouldn't talk about it, you are saying that issue is unimportant.  Why should any black person trust any white person who claims it isn't an issue?
Agreed.  But it is a two way street. 
so many Americans see ant- white rhetoric and violence thrown in their face.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2020, 08:30:31 AM
I'd like to see some analysis of the thousand odd police killings of civilians in the US each year.  How many were white on black?  How many of those were very clearly legal, I mean, no doubt, the victim was shooting at cops, not just failing to comply, but actively shooting.  Then how many were black on black, or black on white.

Is it POSSIBLE that white cops killing black civilians under questionable circumstances is actually rare?  We'd all like that to be zero, magically, but cops make mistakes at times, which are not always racially motivated.  White cops kill white men as well, etc.

I could not find figures on this.

IF we see say 5 or 10 shootings a year which are questionable, would that not be an understandable result?  We'd like it to be zero, but that simply isn't practicable.  You can't get it to zero with any kind of actions by the cities.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2020, 08:31:39 AM
Well, if we give Obama credit for two major things, most of which was done early on in his administration, I think it fair to ask if he tried seriously to get anything else done after that.  There was an adjustment to the top marginal tax bracket, which was pretty small.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 30, 2020, 08:35:08 AM
Trump's a buffoon, but he's a buffoon who knows the difference between hurting "his" people and hurting the others.
I agree with this however,Biden was caught on camera lying thru teeth back in the '80's/90's.About his 5th place finish in law class when he was like 76th out of 85 or some such.Then he purloined a speech from a member of the British Parliament which was taped word for word.Seriously I'll be abstaining in November at least on POTUS vote
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 30, 2020, 08:37:13 AM
I'd like to see some analysis of the thousand odd police killings of civilians in the US each year.  How many were white on black?  How many of those were very clearly legal, I mean, no doubt, the victim was shooting at cops, not just failing to comply, but actively shooting.  Then how many were black on black, or black on white.

Is it POSSIBLE that white cops killing black civilians under questionable circumstances is actually rare?  We'd all like that to be zero, magically, but cops make mistakes at times, which are not always racially motivated.  White cops kill white men as well, etc.

I could not find figures on this.

IF we see say 5 or 10 shootings a year which are questionable, would that not be an understandable result?  We'd like it to be zero, but that simply isn't practicable.  You can't get it to zero with any kind of actions by the cities.
It is extremely rare.

will there be any outcry for the two cops shot last night in St Louis, who were responding to a call about gunfire?  Will any sports teams cancel practice?

how about the two cops shot in Chicago last night?  Out there on the street trying to protect all colors- amid the 5 black people fatally shot?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 30, 2020, 08:38:18 AM
luckily I skipped the past 24 hours of political posts

Played golf with a couple law enforcement officers yesterday

asked them about the Kenosha shooting..... specifically having a guy on the ground with 2 cops trying to subdue him and put cuffs on

their response was that it's more difficult than it would seem at times

one of these guys was big and muscular, I'd guess he didn't have much trouble bringing most guys down
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2020, 08:38:29 AM
Such an analysis could quell some of the furor and misinformation.  I think folks believe cops are murdering black men almost daily.


Get the facts out there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 30, 2020, 08:40:21 AM
Nothing else?  Those were mostly completed in 2010, at least the economy was recovering by then, whatever Obama had done to promote that is fine.  And then?


In 2010 Republicans gained control of the House and we have had our current state of nothing that has gone on for ten years.  Even when Republicans had control of the Congress and presidency we got almost nothing outside of a small tax cut.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2020, 08:40:59 AM
one of these guys was big and muscular, I'd guess he didn't have much trouble bringing most guys down
As noted above, the cops are wearing a lot of gear and weight that hampers their hand to hand skills.  I still think more training might be useful.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2020, 08:42:14 AM
In 2010 Republicans gained control of the House and we have had our current state of nothing that has gone on for ten years.  Even when Republicans had control of the Congress and presidency we got almost nothing outside of a small tax cut.
Did Obama even try?  Other Presidents managed to get stuff done legislatively with Congress being on the other side and hostile.

What did Obama try to get done?  Anything?  Seems like a paucity of real stuff to view him as anything but a failure.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 30, 2020, 08:43:38 AM
Such an analysis could quell some of the furor and misinformation.  I think folks believe cops are murdering black men almost daily.


Get the facts out there.
I'm not sure it would quell much, but many young people have this misconception
I'm guessing most young black people believe this
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2020, 08:44:53 AM
I think it could have significant impact, if widely reported as an analysis.  You mean all this rioting is really about maybe 5 dubious racially motivated killings a year?

Oh, never mind.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 30, 2020, 08:46:18 AM
As noted above, the cops are wearing a lot of gear and weight that hampers their hand to hand skills.  I still think more training might be useful.


agreed, I also think other "tools" other than stun guns might help

I'm guessing billy clubs/night sticks leave ugly marks and were heavily criticized 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 30, 2020, 08:47:32 AM
Did Obama even try?  Other Presidents managed to get stuff done legislatively with Congress being on the other side and hostile.

What did Obama try to get done?  Anything?  Seems like a paucity of real stuff to view him as anything but a failure.
Yes.  Very clearly he wanted gun control and immigration reform.  The GOP ran on the message that they wanted to block everything he wanted, which is more or less what they did.  They even blocked a lot of routine appointments, because that was their goal.  That's why most of Obama later year's were marked in governing through executive actions and orders as opposed to legislation.  DACA is an obvious example.


https://www.politico.com/story/2010/10/the-gops-no-compromise-pledge-044311

 (https://www.politico.com/story/2010/10/the-gops-no-compromise-pledge-044311)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 30, 2020, 08:49:02 AM
Such an analysis could quell some of the furor and misinformation.  I think folks believe cops are murdering black men almost daily.


Get the facts out there.
This would be great.  A national law that regulates data gathering on police actions would be a tremendous boon to studying it.  It's not something that is easy to gather right now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2020, 08:51:27 AM
Did Obama propose any legislation on gun control?  Immigration reform?  Or did he just talk generalities?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 30, 2020, 08:55:33 AM
Did Obama propose any legislation on gun control?  Immigration reform?  Or did he just talk generalities?
The president's abilities to propose legilsation is limited - there was an immigration bill but it never went anywhere


https://nbclatino.com/2013/04/16/senate-immigration-bill-revealed-a-path-to-citizenship-shift-to-employment-based-visas/ (https://nbclatino.com/2013/04/16/senate-immigration-bill-revealed-a-path-to-citizenship-shift-to-employment-based-visas/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 30, 2020, 09:00:28 AM
Yes.  Very clearly he wanted gun control and immigration reform.  The GOP ran on the message that they wanted to block everything he wanted, which is more or less what they did.  They even blocked a lot of routine appointments, because that was their goal.  That's why most of Obama later year's were marked in governing through executive actions and orders as opposed to legislation.  DACA is an obvious example.


https://www.politico.com/story/2010/10/the-gops-no-compromise-pledge-044311

 (https://www.politico.com/story/2010/10/the-gops-no-compromise-pledge-044311)
most of them didnt even attend the inauguration

there was a lot of talk of impeachment even before he was sworn in 

no other President in history other than maybe Lincoln has faced so much opposition
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2020, 09:20:16 AM
A President has to lead, and work deals, which means compromise.  A Leading President can generate public enthusiasm and pressure for a piece of legislation he wants, the Bully Pulpit, which doesn't mean offering an occasional sound bite.  It means focus, and work, and effort to ask the other side what they want and where they can compromise, and if you can't generate public pressure on them, the legislation probably isn't popular.

I don't think Obama had enough experience with this process, nor did his "handlers".  I also don't think he cared enough to give it much effort.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 30, 2020, 09:25:33 AM
A President has to lead, and work deals, which means compromise.  A Leading President can generate public enthusiasm and pressure for a piece of legislation he wants, the Bully Pulpit, which doesn't mean offering an occasional sound bite.  It means focus, and work, and effort to ask the other side what they want and where they can compromise, and if you can't generate public pressure on them, the legislation probably isn't popular.

I don't think Obama had enough experience with this process, nor did his "handlers".  I also don't think he cared enough to give it much effort.
I thought Obama was excellent on those things. Frankly, the Republican party currently seems to have little interest in governing. They presently have no platform other than what Trump wants, whatever that is. How does one compromise with that?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2020, 09:26:50 AM
I view Obama obviously as inept and lazy, not interested in getting anything done.  He was a sound bite President who lacked focus.

And proof is in the pudding.  Either you got meaningful stuff legislated or you didn't.  He didn't.  And his successor is undoing most of his "EO" stuff.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 30, 2020, 09:36:27 AM
I thought Obama was excellent on those things. Frankly, the Republican party currently seems to have little interest in governing. They presently have no platform other than what Trump wants, whatever that is. How does one compromise with that?
Unless you count defunding police, AOCs Green New Deal, and raising taxes- what platform to the Dems have?   

They have spent the last 4 years fighting anything they perceive POTUS wants or believes. 
That’s why I hate them.  They are not for anything good, just against. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 30, 2020, 09:37:19 AM
I thought Obama was excellent on those things. Frankly, the Republican party currently seems to have little interest in governing. They presently have no platform other than what Trump wants, whatever that is. How does one compromise with that?
Pretty hard to be in a compromising state of mind when you are constantly under attack

The Russian investigation which was completely made up and then the Kavanaugh hearing and then impeachment

This President has been able to survive all this and still had major accomplishments

Trump has made several attempts to compromise on various legislation and Pelosi refuses to budge an inch

In short if there is a chance that Trump might receive any credit Pelosi wants nothing to do with it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 30, 2020, 09:41:32 AM
This would be great.  A national law that regulates data gathering on police actions would be a tremendous boon to studying it.  It's not something that is easy to gather right now.
this would be something that could be done at the federal or the state level that might be a positive for both sides, meaning everyone
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 30, 2020, 10:53:05 AM

They have spent the last 4 years fighting anything they perceive POTUS wants or believes.
That’s why I hate them.  They are not for anything good, just against.
Let's be real by friend, the obstructionism isn't why you dislike them. Many times, we've praised obstructionism on this very thread. We're 8-10 years into high end obstructionism, minus the two years when it wasn't possible. It's just our era. 

They push for certain things you strongly don't believe. That reason enough to not like your political opposition.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 30, 2020, 10:54:51 AM
As I said, words, and then nothing.  It was never a big goal I reckon.

Even in 2009-2010 when he basically had Congress on his side.  Not a big goal, says it all.  What were his big goals anyway?

They must have been really high priorities when one considers all the verbiage attached to gun control.
Bear in mind Congress has its hand tied somewhat on how far they can take gun control. They can't overturn the 2nd Amendment on their own. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 30, 2020, 11:08:24 AM


I don't like "lesser of two evils" voting, but when the difference between the two evils is so significant, I'm Ridin' with Biden.
Your vote doesn't matter. You live in California.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 30, 2020, 11:10:49 AM
Your vote doesn't matter. You live in California.
It's what the founders wanted. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 30, 2020, 11:12:14 AM
It's what the founders wanted.
So what was it that Ridin' with Biden reminded you of?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 30, 2020, 11:15:03 AM
Your vote doesn't matter. You live in California.
That's why I usually vote third party. 

But if this year I can add to Trump's popular vote landslide loss in any way, I'll do it. Because I believe he'll contest or try to dispute anything but a landslide. I want 2020 to be a repudiation of him and the last four years, for the future of America's soul. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 30, 2020, 11:18:09 AM
That's why I usually vote third party.

But if this year I can add to Trump's popular vote landslide loss in any way, I'll do it. Because I believe he'll contest or try to dispute anything but a landslide. I want 2020 to be a repudiation of him and the last four years, for the future of America's soul.
well youre right about one thing

it will be a landslide
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 30, 2020, 11:20:17 AM
That's why I usually vote third party.
Ya the Keg Party
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on August 30, 2020, 11:21:37 AM
It won't be a landslide in either direction.  Gonna be close just like the last time.

I'll be voting 3rd party again because I loathe the two party system, I loathe the two party machines, and I disagree with a large amount in both party platform agendas.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 30, 2020, 11:46:04 AM
So what was it that Ridin' with Biden reminded you of?
I wrote out the full story, but then I found the link to an old Colbert Report. Go to about the 4 minute mark and you'll see.

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/9r8mtw/the-colbert-report-threatdown---who-s-nailin--paylin (http://www.cc.com/video-clips/9r8mtw/the-colbert-report-threatdown---who-s-nailin--paylin)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 30, 2020, 11:47:23 AM
It won't be a landslide in either direction.  Gonna be close just like the last time.

I'll be voting 3rd party again because I loathe the two party system, I loathe the two party machines, and I disagree with a large amount in both party platform agendas.

I wish we had a system that didn't make two parties an inevitability. But do to it requires going more proportional, which doesn't happen much here. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 30, 2020, 11:48:34 AM
Man, people do see things differently.  I thought Obama went way out of his way to not make things about race.  Farther than he should have.
Maybe, after almost four years of the current administration, if I could go back and re-live it, I'd think (or feel) differently than I do.  At the time, playing the race card is what it seemed like to me.  His comments about "typical white people" during the 2008 campaign may have spring-loaded me to see race-card playing.  Eric Holder as AG unveiling some race-based initiative to benefit "our people" didn't help either.  At the time, a president and his top aids acting or speaking as if they weren't there for all of America seemed very radical.  (Now it has become normalized, of course.)
Can you give an example of where he went too far the other way?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 30, 2020, 11:54:24 AM
I wish we had a system that didn't make two parties an inevitability. But do to it requires going more proportional, which doesn't happen much here.
well the dems are doing their part to erase the two party system

they have moved so far left its forcing voters to pick a 3rd party which will hurt the dems

the dems have lost sight of main stream America and its core beliefs

The republicans have not changed their message and good or bad their base will remain

for the dems to win this one they are going to have to get more conservative quick and thats not likely
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 30, 2020, 11:56:18 AM
I will not be voting for Trump nor Biden.

Trump is a petulant child, a horrible communicator, and not the worlds greatest leader by 20 miles.  His tweets are often an embarrassment.
I just don’t like him.

On the other hand I don’t feel he was ever given a chance from a policy standpoint. I feel like the Democrats are the divisive ones the racist ones the corrupt ones and I feel like the media backs their play. So when I see people on here calling Trump out for all kinds of shit, most of which I actually don’t agree with, I just see hypocrisy in spades.

The Democrats spent four years on a personal vendetta out to get him and anything that he touched. I’ve never been so disgusted with a political party in my life.

Wow I hate him and his style and his communication I have generally agreed with most all of his of his policies.  The Democrats on the other hand have done nothing, and I mean nothing but waste taxpayer money chasing after him.

Does that answer your question?
This is me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 30, 2020, 11:57:14 AM
As I said, words, and then nothing.  It was never a big goal I reckon.

Even in 2009-2010 when he basically had Congress on his side.  Not a big goal, says it all.  What were his big goals anyway?

They must have been really high priorities when one considers all the verbiage attached to gun control.
Obama shot his bolt in getting ObamaCare through Congress.  He spent all his political capital to achieve a goal that the Democrats had had for almost a hundred years.  The GOP took over the House after the 2010 mid-terms.  The GOP took over statehouses they hadn't held in decades, had over 30 governors in office.  It was a red wave.
Obama was left to spend his next 6 years nibbling at the margins of what he would have liked to accomplish.
Still, for the Democrats, it might have been worth it.  The AHCA (AHA?) greatly shaped the political battlefield over medical care, and the battle seems to be playing out in Democrats' favor.  Republicans failed in their "solemn" promise to repeal and replace it.  All they've done is defund it, adding to the national debt.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2020, 12:05:34 PM
This is me.
That is many of us here really.  The question is whether you "throw away your vote" or choose the least stinky candidate.  I'm the former.

I do think Trump supporters are more ardent than Biden supporters.  I asked in 2016 how many people were really enthused about Hillary.  A few were, most were not.  I wondered if that would play out as a factor.  It did, I think, that time.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 30, 2020, 12:12:47 PM
It won't be a landslide in either direction.  Gonna be close just like the last time.

I'll be voting 3rd party again because I loathe the two party system, I loathe the two party machines, and I disagree with a large amount in both party platform agendas.
What?  You disagree with the GOP platform: "We support the Great Man's agenda"?  What part of that do you not like?
I wish that there were party machines again.  Just like I wish that the CFB national championship were still determined by bowl pairings made by old men in funny jackets in smoke-filled rooms.

The two parties now are mere shells of what they once were.  Vessels to be captured and weaponized by whatever buccaneer politician can be the most successful demagogue (crowd-haranguer) during primary season.  They don't pick the candidates and they don't write serious platforms.  They don't drive the agenda in Congress.  They are just banners for the buccaneers to wave in order to rouse the faithful.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 30, 2020, 12:19:47 PM
well the dems are doing their part to erase the two party system

they have moved so far left its forcing voters to pick a 3rd party which will hurt the dems

the dems have lost sight of main stream America and its core beliefs

The republicans have not changed their message and good or bad their base will remain

for the dems to win this one they are going to have to get more conservative quick and thats not likely
The Republicans have changed their message.  Drastically.  Draw a Venn diagram of Reagan's message of optimism and Trump's message of chaos and destruction and you won't see much overlap.
Reagan's base did not include neo-Nazis, white-supremacists, skinheads, shadowy militia groups, and conspiracy theorists.  Reagan reached across the aisle and got tremendous support from Democrat voters and from "boll-weevil" Democrats in Congress.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on August 30, 2020, 12:26:00 PM
What?  You disagree with the GOP platform: "We support the Great Man's agenda"?  What part of that do you not like?
I wish that there were party machines again.  Just like I wish that the CFB national championship were still determined by bowl pairings made by old men in funny jackets in smoke-filled rooms.

The two parties now are mere shells of what they once were.  Vessels to be captured and weaponized by whatever buccaneer politician can be the most successful demagogue (crowd-haranguer) during primary season.  They don't pick the candidates and they don't write serious platforms.  They don't drive the agenda in Congress.  They are just banners for the buccaneers to wave in order to rouse the faithful.
I'll agree that the Republican party machine lost its wheels and then Trump highjacked it.

But the Democratic machine is in full force.  It was powerful enough to railroad Bernie (and everyone else) to force Hillary into the prime position, and it ram-rodded Biden this go-round.  The Democratic voters are fractured, but the machine is in full force and still quite obviously driving.  Their real problem is that their platform has become not much more than "whatever the Republicans aren't" which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's a defensive position that doesn't generate much confidence or heartfelt support.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2020, 12:27:40 PM
Reagan was accused often of appealing to racists and unsavories.

https://www.demos.org/media/racism-heart-reagan-presidency (https://www.demos.org/media/racism-heart-reagan-presidency)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 30, 2020, 12:28:11 PM
The Republicans have changed their message.  Drastically.  Draw a Venn diagram of Reagan's message of optimism and Trump's message of chaos and destruction and you won't see much overlap.
Reagan's base did not include neo-Nazis, white-supremacists, skinheads, shadowy militia groups, and conspiracy theorists.  Reagan reached across the aisle and got tremendous support from Democrat voters and from "boll-weevil" Democrats in Congress.
Was gonna say something like a more tempered version of this.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 30, 2020, 12:31:10 PM
The Republicans have changed their message.  Drastically.  Draw a Venn diagram of Reagan's message of optimism and Trump's message of chaos and destruction and you won't see much overlap.
Reagan's base did not include neo-Nazis, white-supremacists, skinheads, shadowy militia groups, and conspiracy theorists.  Reagan reached across the aisle and got tremendous support from Democrat voters and from "boll-weevil" Democrats in Congress.
sorry CW I should have said Trump has not changed his message and his base remains very strong and loyal

in fact theres strong evidence a higher % of Blacks will vote for him then in 2016

with the republicans theres consistency in their platform and with the dems well lets just say Carl Marx would be very proud

They have deserted middle America and this will show up on election day
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 30, 2020, 12:32:34 PM
Let's be real by friend, the obstructionism isn't why you dislike them. Many times, we've praised obstructionism on this very thread. We're 8-10 years into high end obstructionism, minus the two years when it wasn't possible. It's just our era.

They push for certain things you strongly don't believe. That reason enough to not like your political opposition.

Your elitist, arrogant attitude is showing again buddy. Please don’t be like orange her man and tell people what they think. You don’t know what I think so please stop pretending you do.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 30, 2020, 12:33:37 PM
I'll agree that the Republican party machine lost its wheels and then Trump highjacked it.

But the Democratic machine is in full force.  It was powerful enough to railroad Bernie (and everyone else) to force Hillary into the prime position, and it ram-rodded Biden this go-round.  The Democratic voters are fractured, but the machine is in full force and still quite obviously driving.  Their real problem is that their platform has become not much more than "whatever the Republicans aren't" which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's a defensive position that doesn't generate much confidence or heartfelt support.

How did the bolded come to pass? 

The revisionist history around that is fascinating. What is the case he was railroaded? I think she was an unlikeable candidate, but she was a known name with centrist policies and a long record. The the voters of the party picked her rather than a career socialist is now treated as if it could only happen with the machine at her back.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 30, 2020, 12:38:40 PM
The Republicans have changed their message.  Drastically.  Draw a Venn diagram of Reagan's message of optimism and Trump's message of chaos and destruction and you won't see much overlap.
Reagan's base did not include neo-Nazis, white-supremacists, skinheads, shadowy militia groups, and conspiracy theorists.  Reagan reached across the aisle and got tremendous support from Democrat voters and from "boll-weevil" Democrats in Congress.
This is where you lose me.  Totally.  All you had to do was watch the conventions.  
I have no love for the Elephants but the Donkeys are most definitely the party of chaos and doom and gloom.  It isn’t even close. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on August 30, 2020, 12:40:18 PM
How did the bolded come to pass?

The revisionist history around that is fascinating. What is the case he was railroaded? I think she was an unlikeable candidate, but she was a known name with centrist policies and a long record. The the voters of the party picked her rather than a career socialist is now treated as if it could only happen with the machine at her back. 
Ask the Bernie fanbois, they have it well-documented. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 30, 2020, 12:40:30 PM
I'll agree that the Republican party machine lost its wheels and then Trump highjacked it.

But the Democratic machine is in full force.  It was powerful enough to railroad Bernie (and everyone else) to force Hillary into the prime position, and it ram-rodded Biden this go-round.  The Democratic voters are fractured, but the machine is in full force and still quite obviously driving.  Their real problem is that their platform has become not much more than "whatever the Republicans aren't" which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's a defensive position that doesn't generate much confidence or heartfelt support.

This!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2020, 12:40:35 PM
Oddly enough, I watched neither convention.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 30, 2020, 12:40:54 PM
the Clinton machine was strong
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 30, 2020, 12:41:19 PM
Oddly enough, I watched neither convention. 
I'm with you.  not one second
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 30, 2020, 12:44:05 PM
Your elitist, arrogant attitude is showing again buddy. Please don’t be like orange her man and tell people what they think. You don’t know what I think so please stop pretending you do.
That's elitist? HB, that's not elitism. It's just not. Rude? Perhaps. 

I said what I said because I made an assumption. Maybe it was wrong. From 2012-16, the senate obstructed and obstructed and obstructed. And I made the assumption you didn't hate them. And I was wrong to assume that. If you did hate them, I'm sorry for what I wrote. 

And if you didn't hate them, then you don't hate the obstructionist approach. On this front, there is little middle ground. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2020, 12:45:26 PM
One thing I wonder about is whether "not being Trump" is enough to attract enough swayable voters in the midwest.  I figure to win, Trump has to carry FL and OH and the rest, so it comes down, again, to the midwestern states, WI/MI/PA/MN.  And I think it will be close, 50-50 basically.

I think, personally, Biden needs to focus on "Three Things" he would do as President.  Hillary offered a to do list that was too long, and unfocussed.  I think the three things concept is useful and communicative.

And they should be affirmative things, not just "I'm not Trump".

It is ironic, to me, that my Number One concern for the country is the deficit/debt, and neither party wants to go there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 30, 2020, 12:46:17 PM
That's elitist? HB, that's not elitism. It's just not. Rude? Perhaps.

I said what I said because I made an assumption. Maybe it was wrong. From 2012-16, the senate obstructed and obstructed and obstructed. And I made the assumption you didn't hate them. And I was wrong to assume that. If you did hate them, I'm sorry for what I wrote.

And if you didn't hate them, then you don't hate the obstructionist approach. On this front, there is little middle ground.
Fair.  I do hate obstructionism.  Hated it then. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 30, 2020, 12:47:57 PM
https://songmeanings.com/m/songs/view/2812/


Us and Them.  Pink Floyd. 

I guess these debates are timeless- been around for a long time.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 30, 2020, 12:54:21 PM
Ask the Bernie fanbois, they have it well-documented. :)
They sounded like every fanbase that says "If there wasn't that pass interference in the first quarter, momentum would've been different and we woulda won."

The best logic seems to be that Sanders was entitled to avoid having to face someone heads-up for as long as possible until narrative momentum made him the presumptive option. And in the end, he's not entitled to it.

In the end, he went heads-up twice and got smashed in the votes. Them's the breaks (I don't have a great deal of admiration for Hil or Joe, but they won in the way that makes logical sense)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 30, 2020, 12:55:27 PM
Fair.  I do hate obstructionism.  Hated it then.
Fair enough. I withdraw the previous comment. 

And I too would like to see less all-or-nothingism in our process. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 30, 2020, 12:58:31 PM
Reagan was accused often of appealing to racists and unsavories.

https://www.demos.org/media/racism-heart-reagan-presidency (https://www.demos.org/media/racism-heart-reagan-presidency)
Yes, he was.  I disagree with the assertion that it was at the heart of his presidency, but it was there at the edges.  Reagan from his HS years on was ahead of his generation on racial issues.  Of course, his generation wasn't very good on racial issues.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 30, 2020, 12:58:38 PM
One thing I wonder about is whether "not being Trump" is enough to attract enough swayable voters in the midwest.  I figure to win, Trump has to carry FL and OH and the rest, so it comes down, again, to the midwestern states, WI/MI/PA/MN.  And I think it will be close, 50-50 basically.

I think, personally, Biden needs to focus on "Three Things" he would do as President.  Hillary offered a to do list that was too long, and unfocussed.  I think the three things concept is useful and communicative.

And they should be affirmative things, not just "I'm not Trump".

It is ironic, to me, that my Number One concern for the country is the deficit/debt, and neither party wants to go there.
Yep.

I recall in my first Poli Sci class with a really smart prof, he said elections usually come down to a main issue. So you either win on the one that emerges or try to shift the main issue to something else. 

The debt is fascinating because it requires everyone to take a dose of unflavorful medicine, and so you need folks willing to ride out bad press. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2020, 01:03:06 PM
In 1960, a key issue was Quemoy and Matsu.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 30, 2020, 01:14:33 PM
I'll agree that the Republican party machine lost its wheels and then Trump highjacked it.

But the Democratic machine is in full force.  It was powerful enough to railroad Bernie (and everyone else) to force Hillary into the prime position, and it ram-rodded Biden this go-round.  The Democratic voters are fractured, but the machine is in full force and still quite obviously driving.  Their real problem is that their platform has become not much more than "whatever the Republicans aren't" which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's a defensive position that doesn't generate much confidence or heartfelt support.
I'd say that Hillary had a bigger, better machine than Bernie did.  And her machine took over the DNC to ensure that she got all the breaks.  (Similar--though differing greatly in the details--to how Trump took over the RNC.)
She had the nomination locked up by the end of primary season.  It didn't take the Dems' super-delegates (what little is left of the "machine") to push her over the finish line.
By the time of the nominations, the DNC was doing Hillary's bidding and the RNC was doing Trump's.
I do agree that the DNC is the stronger of the two party apparati.  It's the super-delegates who provide that strength.  They make up a much larger share of the convention delegates than the Republicans' super-delegates do.
We now have a very dysfunctional system for selecting presidential nominees.  Haranguing a crowd is the most important skill needed to gain the nomination, and it's a skill far removed from what a candidate will need to do to be a good president.
For an interesting take on how the parties have been taken over, see "How Too Much Democracy is Bad for Democracy (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/12/too-much-democracy-is-bad-for-democracy/600766/)" in The Atlantic.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2020, 01:17:53 PM
I think the more moderate Democrats were scared by Bernie and AOC and looked quickly for the alternative that would head him off, in both cases.  They might have preferred another candidate, but they were driven to find someone who could beat Bernie.  After SC, that was clearlyJoe.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 30, 2020, 01:20:16 PM
sorry CW I should have said Trump has not changed his message and his base remains very strong and loyal

in fact theres strong evidence a higher % of Blacks will vote for him then in 2016

with the republicans theres consistency in their platform and with the dems well lets just say Carl Marx would be very proud

They have deserted middle America and this will show up on election day
You know that most Democrats are not Marxists.  Only the extreme fringe of the party.
Well, at the extreme fringe of Trump's Republican party are neo-Nazis.
So, would it be fair to say that Adolf Hitler would be very proud?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 30, 2020, 01:22:54 PM
Was gonna say something like a more tempered version of this.

Our times have changed enough that GW Bush is now basically on the same message at the present crew. Which seems a stretch.
Could you explain?  I don't understand the bolded sentence.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2020, 01:25:37 PM
You know that most Democrats are not Marxists.  Only the extreme fringe of the party.
Well, at the extreme fringe of Trump's Republican party are neo-Nazis.
So, would it be fair to say that Adolf Hitler would be very proud?
I think there are more of the former than the latter, numerically, by a fair stretch.   It could be 20% of the Democrats are at least socialists while maybe 1-2% of Republican voters are neo_Nazis.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 30, 2020, 01:26:44 PM
Oddly enough, I watched neither convention.
Same.
I'm not sure that what the Republicans did even qualifies as a convention, even in an era where conventions don't mean nearly what they did even as recently as the 1960s.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 30, 2020, 01:27:20 PM
You know that most Democrats are not Marxists.  Only the extreme fringe of the party.
Well, at the extreme fringe of Trump's Republican party are neo-Nazis.
So, would it be fair to say that Adolf Hitler would be very proud?
fair enough but we dont incorporate neo Nazis crap in our platform

No not all Democrats are Marxists just the party leaders

and why in the world would Biden pick a VP candidate from California 

what an idiot move the dems are getting California anyway

He should have picked a candidate from a toss up state
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 30, 2020, 01:39:28 PM
fair enough but we dont incorporate neo Nazis crap in our platform

No not all Democrats are Marxists just the party leaders

and why in the world would Biden pick a VP candidate from California

what an idiot move the dems are getting California anyway

He should have picked a candidate from a toss up state
"We" have no 2020 platform other than to support the Great Man's agenda.  None.  Nada.
I don't know which Democrat party leaders you're thinking of, but Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi are not Marxists.  I don't like their policies, but they aren't Marxists.
There's much discussion amongst conservative pundits over the choice of Kamala Harris.  Some points I remember:
1.  Picking a VP nominee to carry a certain state seldom works.
2.  Avoiding a bad pick--think "Sarah Palin" (whom I liked at the time)--is more important than trying to get a great pick.
3.  Kamala Harris is a great "melting pot" story (if you don't look too closely at her record as D.A. and California A.G.).
I thought that the Florida black female rep. (Val Demings?) who had been a cop and then police commissioner (of Tallahassee?) would have been a good choice.  But maybe vetting revealed some actions in the law enforcement world that wouldn't have played well in today's anti-police climate.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 30, 2020, 01:43:49 PM
I think the more moderate Democrats were scared by Bernie and AOC and looked quickly for the alternative that would head him off, in both cases.  They might have preferred another candidate, but they were driven to find someone who could beat Bernie.  After SC, that was clearlyJoe.
I think you get it at the end, here.  
More than the DNC railroading Biden this go-around, it was the black voters in SC.  That was the "wait and see" moment of the Dem primary season.  It could've ended Biden's campaign there, but that voting block (I guess) didn't trust Bernie and didn't want to vote for a white unknown or woman.  It's a really interesting state to look at, actually.  Tom Steyer got more votes than Klobuchar and Warren combined.  The South reeeeeally doesn't believe a woman can be the president.  

So for every 10 non-Biden voters, 4 voted for Bernie, 1 each for Steyer, Mayor Pete, Klobuchar/Warren, and 2 for others.

Biden had just 5 fewer % than Obama in '08, in a relatively heavy black voting group, with Bernie getting 5% less than Hillary did in '08.  

I don't think it's a stretch to say that voting block was okay with an unknown black candidate, but felt more comfortable voting for a familiar white guy in 2020.  It bothered me at the time, but it is what it is.  


And on an aside, if republicans stopped mentioning her all the time, AOC would be a relative unknown.  They treat her like the Dems treat Trump - bordering on obsession.  She was a surprise winner of her district and was part of a minor documentary, but she's not some big, scary thing.  I find it odd that she's the one they're demonizing.  She's so far down the Democratic totem pole.  


Another aside - I see conservative colleagues posting being in favor of term limits so that horrible people like Nancy Pelosi can't stay in power for forever.  It made me do a little research.  She's been around a long time, sure, but she's only 10th in seniority in the House.  Guess what party the 4 longest-tenured members are?  Yup, Republicans.  Ugh.  The perpetual misleading is something I could really do without, all-around.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 30, 2020, 01:44:20 PM
I think there are more of the former than the latter, numerically, by a fair stretch.  It could be 20% of the Democrats are at least socialists while maybe 1-2% of Republican voters are neo_Nazis.
I think you're probably right on the Dems and fear you are wrong on the Repubs.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 30, 2020, 01:47:42 PM
Another aside - I see conservative colleagues posting being in favor of term limits so that horrible people like Nancy Pelosi can't stay in power for forever.  It made me do a little research.  She's been around a long time, sure, but she's only 10th in seniority in the House.  Guess what party the 4 longest-tenured members are?  Yup, Republicans.  Ugh.  The perpetual misleading is something I could really do without, all-around.
OK.  Cite the posts.
I've probably made as many posts as anyone on the subject of term limits and I have certainly not focused my criticism on Nancy Pelosi.
I will await your motte-and-bailey defense.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 30, 2020, 01:48:08 PM
fair enough but we dont incorporate neo Nazis crap in our platform

No not all Democrats are Marxists just the party leaders

and why in the world would Biden pick a VP candidate from California

what an idiot move the dems are getting California anyway

He should have picked a candidate from a toss up state
This is like a list of cliches.  Fun.


Your first couple of lines do make for an interesting conversation, though.  Should politicians or parties pay attention to the groups of people they attract?  Let's say Trump isn't racist.  Should he be concerned if a bunch of racists support him?  Is that out of his hands?  Should he be quiet about it and just benefit from their votes?  You can ask the same questions about Marxists on the other side, although that ideology isn't exactly on par with racism.  

I'm not sure how I feel about it.  I know I wouldn't feel very good about attracting unsavories to my side of things.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 30, 2020, 01:49:08 PM
OK.  Cite the posts.
I've probably made as many posts as anyone on the subject of term limits and I have certainly not focused my criticism on Nancy Pelosi.
I will await your motte-and-bailey defense.
I said colleagues - friends out in the world, not people on this forum.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 30, 2020, 01:50:00 PM
I think you're probably right on the Dems and fear you are wrong on the Repubs.
I certainly used to think it was 1-2% fringe, until the Donald showed up.  Now I fear it's the 30% of voters he couldn't lose if he tried.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 30, 2020, 01:50:52 PM
2.  Avoiding a bad pick--think "Sarah Palin" (whom I liked at the time)--is more important than trying to get a great pick.

What did you like about her?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on August 30, 2020, 01:52:43 PM
I think you're probably right on the Dems and fear you are wrong on the Repubs.
Oh you can be mildly racist without being Neo Nazi.  I'd be surprised if even 1% of Republican voters were radical enough to be considered Neo Nazi, but I think the number of mildly racist Republican voters is certainly much higher than 1-2%.  

Of course, there are also racists voting Democrat, it's not a uniquely Republican thing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 30, 2020, 01:54:02 PM
This is like a list of cliches.  Fun.


Your first couple of lines do make for an interesting conversation, though.  Should politicians or parties pay attention to the groups of people they attract?  Let's say Trump isn't racist.  Should he be concerned if a bunch of racists support him?  Is that out of his hands?  Should he be quiet about it and just benefit from their votes?  You can ask the same questions about Marxists on the other side, although that ideology isn't exactly on par with racism.

I don't know which ideology is responsible for more human suffering, but I wouldn't uphold Marxism as some great alternative to racism.

Quote
I'm not sure how I feel about it.  I know I wouldn't feel very good about attracting unsavories to my side of things.

It's not a hypothetical.  You've got "unsavories" on your side of things.  Plenty of 'em.  How do you feel about it?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 30, 2020, 01:55:36 PM
Oh you can be mildly racist without being Neo Nazi.  I'd be surprised if even 1% of Republican voters were radical enough to be considered Neo Nazi, but I think the number of mildly racist Republican voters is certainly much higher than 1-2%. 

Of course, there are also racists voting Democrat, it's not a uniquely Republican thing.
I guess it depends on who's doing the labeling, lol.  If someone is racist, I don't think it much matters if they're a Neo-Nazi.  The end result is the same problematic thinking.


Agreeing that being racist is bad, do you not feel that a minority being racist is a little more understandable than a white person being racist? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 30, 2020, 01:56:55 PM
I certainly used to think it was 1-2% fringe, until the Donald showed up.  Now I fear it's the 30% of voters he couldn't lose if he tried.
That's my thinking too.  I don't know if it's 30% or not, but I'm sure that it's way, way too big a number.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 30, 2020, 01:57:01 PM
I don't know which ideology is responsible for more human suffering, but I wouldn't uphold Marxism as some great alternative to racism.

It's not a hypothetical.  You've got "unsavories" on your side of things.  Plenty of 'em.  How do you feel about it?

Which is my side?  Am I running for office?  

Don't be nice to me in private and then shit on my every post.  I'm asking genuine questions in a nice way.  And you're just in attack mode from the start.  Chill.  Converse.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on August 30, 2020, 02:03:05 PM
I guess it depends on who's doing the labeling, lol.  If someone is racist, I don't think it much matters if they're a Neo-Nazi.  The end result is the same problematic thinking.


Agreeing that being racist is bad, do you not feel that a minority being racist is a little more understandable than a white person being racist? 
I think degrees of racism actually do matter.  Active racists are worse than passive racists who are worse than non-racists.

And I disagree with all forms bigotry, racism included but not exclusive.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 30, 2020, 02:07:07 PM
Oh you can be mildly racist without being Neo Nazi.  I'd be surprised if even 1% of Republican voters were radical enough to be considered Neo Nazi, but I think the number of mildly racist Republican voters is certainly much higher than 1-2%.

Members of organized neo-Nazi organizations are probably fewer than 1%.  But there a lot of fellow-travelers under the labels of alt-right, white nationalists, anti-Zionists, Q-Anon believers, anti-Kamala Harris birthers, the plain old KKK, etc.  I don't know if they constitute 30% of Trump's base, but they constitute too much of it.

Quote
Of course, there are also racists voting Democrat, it's not a uniquely Republican thing.
Yes, there are.  Until Trump came along, I was convinced that the Democrats were still the more racist party, just as they had been for the first 130 years of their existence.  I think that the Democrats are still riddled with the paternalistic sort of racism displayed by Ruth Bader-Ginsberg when she said that SCOTUS had to keep abortion legal to keep too many black babies from being born.  And displayed by rhetoric implying that black Americans are too stupid to wake up in the morning without some agent from the government coming around and setting their alarm clocks for them.
I often wonder what past black leaders--great Americans like Frederick Douglass--would say about today's welfare-state Democrats.  Even in his own time, he was saying that the government should leave black people alone--stop hurting, stop helping, "just leave us alone."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 30, 2020, 02:09:33 PM
I think degrees of racism actually do matter.  Active racists are worse than passive racists who are worse than non-racists.

And I disagree with all forms bigotry, racism included but not exclusive.
Are there not passive neo-Nazis?  I don't understand this.  Passive racism is still damaging.  Passive racists vote (privately).  Passive racists have kids.  Is that "better" than going out and lynching someone?  Yeah, I guess so, but when you take into account the number of people in each subset, millions of passive racists are much more damaging than a handful of active ones, no?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 30, 2020, 02:10:03 PM
Which is my side?  Am I running for office? 

Don't be nice to me in private and then shit on my every post.  I'm asking genuine questions in a nice way.  And you're just in attack mode from the start.  Chill.  Converse.
I'm not shitting on you.  I'm disagreeing with you.  Civilly.  I'm not calling you names, insulting your ancestry or any other form of insult.  I'm just disagreeing.
I assume your side is somewhere left of center.  Am I wrong about that?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 30, 2020, 02:10:58 PM
I'd like to see some posts on solutions to racial inequity. Is that too much to ask?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 30, 2020, 02:11:27 PM
great Americans like Frederick Douglass--would say about today's welfare-state Democrats.  Even in his own time, he was saying that the government should leave black people alone--stop hurting, stop helping, "just leave us alone."
Umm, of that attention, what % do you think was help and what % was hurt?  That time might as well have been another planet compared to today.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 30, 2020, 02:12:53 PM
I'd like to see some posts on solutions to racial inequity. Is that too much to ask?
It's too much to ask if you deny systematic racism.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 30, 2020, 02:13:09 PM
just remember the immortal words of the Great One

If you vote for Trump then you aint Black

impressive
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 30, 2020, 02:15:56 PM
What did you like about her?
She had a great personal story.  Not quite so great on closer inspection.
She was attractive, articulate, and forceful.
She was smarter than Joe Biden (admittedly a very low bar), her opposite number.  I thought that she could be a prettier Margaret Thatcher.
But it turned out that she was politically lazy.  She wasn't up to speed on national issues, and she wouldn't work to learn more about them.  It turned out she was more interested in being a celebrity than being a serious politician on a bigger stage than small-town Alaska.
She was a very bad choice.
The media were unfair to her, of course, as they have been unfair to every Republican in my lifetime.  But even without that, she was a very bad choice.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 30, 2020, 02:21:22 PM
Umm, of that attention, what % do you think was help and what % was hurt?  That time might as well have been another planet compared to today.
I don't know.  Depends on when exactly he was writing.  If it was during Reconstruction, the federal help might have been outweighing the states' hurts.  Afterwards, it would have been the other way around.
To your last point, I think that many well-intended policies today do more harm than good by trapping poor people (disproportionately black) into generational poverty in which they are perpetually dependent upon government assistance.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 30, 2020, 02:41:21 PM
I don't know.  Depends on when exactly he was writing.  If it was during Reconstruction, the federal help might have been outweighing the states' hurts.  Afterwards, it would have been the other way around.
To your last point, I think that many well-intended policies today do more harm than good by trapping poor people (disproportionately black) into generational poverty in which they are perpetually dependent upon government assistance.
That's fair. 
I think the challenge is that help can only come from 'the people' and the government can't just wait around and hope for that to happen.  

Almost like you have $5 in your hand and there's a homeless person outside a restaurant.  You know giving them the money probably won't genuinely help....do you wait around, hoping someone give them some food (actual help) from the restaurant or do you just give them the $5?  You don't want to walk away, but you don't want to stay and look like a jerk.  

What does a government do when the only genuine help and the path towards equality can only be provided by the people?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 30, 2020, 02:42:09 PM

To your last point, I think that many well-intended policies today do more harm than good by trapping poor people (disproportionately black) into generational poverty in which they are perpetually dependent upon government assistance.
CW we agree completely on this

It surprises me you hold this viewpoint 

I think its possible your a closet Republican just waiting to be free

Come on out of the closet CW

now if you would just quit shitting on me Id appreciate it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 30, 2020, 02:44:22 PM
^ help from the people looking like the current inequities


The idea of a minority not wanting to be followed by the store clerk around the store BUT a higher % of thieves are minorities in that store BUT the minority can't get a good job due to things outside of their control BUT BUT BUT


Chicken or egg situation.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 30, 2020, 02:45:13 PM
That's fair.
I think the challenge is that help can only come from 'the people' and the government can't just wait around and hope for that to happen. 

Almost like you have $5 in your hand and there's a homeless person outside a restaurant.  You know giving them the money probably won't genuinely help....do you wait around, hoping someone give them some food (actual help) from the restaurant or do you just give them the $5?  You don't want to walk away, but you don't want to stay and look like a jerk. 

What does a government do when the only genuine help and the path towards equality can only be provided by the people?
what ever happened to the give a man a fish vs teach a man to fish solution
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 30, 2020, 02:48:49 PM
That relies on 'the people' - aka hiring someone who's last name is Jackson as often as it's Schmidt when their resumes are otherwise equal.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 30, 2020, 03:01:06 PM
That relies on 'the people' - aka hiring someone who's last name is Jackson as often as it's Schmidt when their resumes are otherwise equal. 
yep gotta watch those Jacksons
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 30, 2020, 03:08:35 PM
Could you explain?  I don't understand the bolded sentence.
D'oh. It means I was typing too fast. Basically saying if you're saying GW and the current set are on the same message, that seems not correct. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 30, 2020, 03:08:48 PM
CW we agree completely on this

It surprises me you hold this viewpoint

I think its possible your a closet Republican just waiting to be free

Come on out of the closet CW
I've been a Republican since I first registered to vote in 1972, 320.
Through thick and thin.
I want opportunities to be open to all Americans.  Like Badge and others here, I think that the private sector, not the federal government, is the best means of making that happen.
Only in the last four years have I had reason to question my political allegiance.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 30, 2020, 03:10:56 PM
D'oh. It means I was typing too fast. Basically saying if you're saying GW and the current set are on the same message, that seems not correct.
Heh!  I thought you were implying the opposite, but it didn't seem to fit with the rest of your post.
No, I don't think W. and Donald Trump have much in common, personally or politically.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 30, 2020, 03:14:48 PM
It's too much to ask if you deny systematic racism. 
Thanks for the input.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2020, 03:16:28 PM
A few days ago, a guy approaches me asking for something to eat, or some money, I forget his story.  I say wait here, I'll bring you a sandwich in 15 minutes (it was near home).  I walk home, fix a sandwich, throw in a cold Coke can, and some crackers.  I got back, he's waiting, and he asks me, again, for money.

I don't carry cash around.  I tell him that, he gets a bit smarmy telling me he really needs money.  Sorry, I don't have cash, I walk off.

He's cussing me out as I walk off.

I think he threw the sandwich in the garbage can.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2020, 03:17:13 PM
By "systemic", I suppose we mean "in the system", right?  Meaning by government?  Or just "The System"?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 30, 2020, 03:19:19 PM
A few days ago, a guy approaches me asking for something to eat, or some money, I forget his story.  I say wait here, I'll bring you a sandwich in 15 minutes (it was near home).  I walk home, fix a sandwich, throw in a cold Coke can, and some crackers.  I got back, he's waiting, and he asks me, again, for money.

I don't carry cash around.  I tell him that, he gets a bit smarmy telling me he really needs money.  Sorry, I don't have cash, I walk off.

He's cussing me out as I walk off.

I think he threw the sandwich in the garbage can.


Substance abuse problems are an ugly thing. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2020, 03:28:51 PM
Substance abuse problems are an ugly thing.
Yeah, he wasn't incoherent, he was very skinny, probably 30ish.  Claimed he needed a MARTA ticket to get home.  I'm used to the panhandlers around here.  Some of the homeless are so out of it they have no idea where they are.  It's very sad.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 30, 2020, 03:29:11 PM
I'd like to see some posts on solutions to racial inequity. Is that too much to ask?
In your usual vein, more and better training. A friend works in an industry that slants pretty white. His company would like to hire diverse, but the candidate pool is always shallow and usually does better. There's an org that offers specific training for minority groups that gives a little leg up, but it's a small one. 

I wish I knew some way to make poverty easier to grind out of. Obviously the legal system is for punishing, but something that punishment puts someone in a cycle of financial setbacks that inhibits a road to prosperity (think court fees, fines, etc.)

Another tough spot is housing. How do you create places where people can live safely/somewhat cleanly when they start from nothing?

I wish I had a lot of really good suggestions, but of course if I did, I'd probably be working in a field to try to bring them to reality in a big way. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 30, 2020, 03:35:03 PM
Yeah, he wasn't incoherent, he was very skinny, probably 30ish.  Claimed he needed a MARTA ticket to get home.  I'm used to the panhandlers around here.  Some of the homeless are so out of it they have no idea where they are.  It's very sad.
I had a roommate who offered a person in such a situation a ride when I happened to be in the car. It became clear when we dropped her off this was kind of a thing, something between mental illness and substance abuse. Weeks later he found the person in the same spot asking for the same ride. 

And that's a problem I possess no good answer or policy for. We live in a deeply free country, and that means that you're free not to accept help, even if it's the thing you need help with driving you not to seek it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 30, 2020, 03:41:29 PM
. . . I think the challenge is that help can only come from 'the people' and the government can't just wait around and hope for that to happen. 

Almost like you have $5 in your hand and there's a homeless person outside a restaurant.  You know giving them the money probably won't genuinely help....do you wait around, hoping someone give them some food (actual help) from the restaurant or do you just give them the $5?  You don't want to walk away, but you don't want to stay and look like a jerk. 

What does a government do when the only genuine help and the path towards equality can only be provided by the people?
But what if "government help" is a major reason that the homeless person is homeless?  (And, in real life, that is often the case.)  Is more of it going to be the fix?
We've had major government help since 1966 (when the War on Poverty/Great Society programs began coming on line) and the poverty rate is now what it was then--it bumps along between 11% and 14%.
It's not only blatantly discriminatory policies like FHA redlining that have hurt poor people in general and black people particularly, it's also "good" legislation like minimum-wage laws, which make it harder for less-educated, less-skilled, less-experienced workers find work.  That impacts black people disproportionately.  And there's the Wagner Act--organized labor's "Magna Carta"--of the New Deal.  It dictated that businesses contracting with the federal government must pay the "prevailing wage."  That meant the union wage.  And most trade unions excluded blacks.  Awhile back I read an analysis (the details of which I now unfortunately forget) showing that that policy is still adversely affecting black Americans.
In general, many federal welfare programs have discouraged work and encouraged single-parent families, which are exactly the wrong incentives for poor people in general and especially for black Americans, where the lack of a father, married to the mother, in the home helping to raise the children, is at the heart of many social ills.
I'd be willing to try a negative income tax plan like Milton Friedman (Mr. Free Market) advocated ca. 1970.  Basically, the government sets a certain amount of income for a given family size, and if the family income is less than that, the government pays 80% (or some other percentage) of the difference.  There's help, but there's still an incentive for the breadwinner(s) of that family to keep striving for more income.  And it would eliminate vast swaths of the welfare bureaucracy, which may be a major reason that it didn't make it through Congress back during the Nixon administration.  Those welfare workers are unionized, and they vote, and their unions donate to political campaigns.
I'd like to see some social stigmas return.
For fathers who don't bother to marry the mothers of their children, and then abandon them to go spread their pollen elsewhere.  (Oops!  That would describe some large proportion of professional athletes, our idols.)
For unwed mothers in general (on principle) and especially for young, poor unwed mothers.  Cheap contraceptives are widely available, but we subsidize bad choices, encouraging more of them.
For parents who can't manage to get up in the morning and feed their children, leaving it up to the schools to do the job instead.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 30, 2020, 03:45:35 PM
Yeah, he wasn't incoherent, he was very skinny, probably 30ish.  Claimed he needed a MARTA ticket to get home.  I'm used to the panhandlers around here.  Some of the homeless are so out of it they have no idea where they are.  It's very sad.
I was getting gas a few months ago and this guy driving another getting gas came up to me and ask me if I would lend him $10 for gas money to get home

He was dressed reasonably and his car was fairly modern

He tells me he accidentally left home without his wallet 

I told him Id put $10 gas in his car for him and he accepted

afterwards he thanked me and asked for my phone number and I said forget it just do the same thing for someone else if needed

my point in posting this is sometimes folks just need a little help 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2020, 03:45:56 PM
I once was "poor", in quotes because while I was constantly short of money, I had parents as backup.  I discovered that when you have no backup, being poor means having to take on credit card debt.  Your old car breaks down, you have to have it to get to your job.  OK, you run up credit card debt at 22% interest.  Any minor hiccup means you have to give something up or go further into debt.  You likely owe someone for some ten year old car as it is, and he'd love to repo the car on you.  The you lose your job and have to find one you can walk to, making maybe $8/hr instead of $12.  It spirals out of control quickly without a break.

So, maybe to try and better yourself you take night classes while working to become an RN or something, but that costs money.  You're doing everything "right", but just need a break.  That's the person I'd like to help, but they are too busy trying to get by to know how to seek help.

I really admired the kids at our HS who came from "nothing" and ended up being something.  They often had a mother pushing them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2020, 03:47:38 PM
We do have negative income tax today of course.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 30, 2020, 03:50:31 PM
We do have negative income tax today of course.
Earned Income Tax Credit?  Does it work as I described Friedman's plan?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 30, 2020, 03:54:22 PM
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Back when protests first sprang up in response to George Floyd’s death, I was actually a little optimistic. Let me explain. Even as riots and looting took place in Minneapolis and other large cities, peaceful demonstrations and marches were taking place in small towns and quiet suburbs all over the country. 
My hometown (Alliance, Ohio) was featured in national news stories (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/annehelenpetersen/black-lives-matter-protests-near-me-small-towns) for its successful protest. Our oldest son attended a Black Lives Matter rally and march in our suburb, and we live in a county where Donald Trump got 68 percent of the vote in 2016. Not only was it peaceful, the chief of police gave a heartfelt speech to the crowd, and thanked the organizers for helping increase his awareness. More people than I can count shared Dave Chappelle’s 8:46 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tR6mKcBbT4) special. Occasionally, a fruitful and respectful conversation broke out on social media. It seemed like there was a glimmer of hope not only that we could make some headway on racism in America but that maybe people weren’t quite as divided as we thought.
So much for all of that. Activists took advantage of sympathetic mayors in big cities, giving us the CHAZ/CHOP in Seattle (where protesters made demands about “defunding the police” behind blockades protected by armed civilians (https://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2020/06/seattle-police-chief-speaks-out-on-chaz-leaving-the-precinct-was-not-my-decision/)) and more than two months of nightly violence in Portland. As mayors became nervous about deploying police to maintain the peace, violent crime has increased (https://www.npr.org/2020/08/14/902456117/violent-crime-increases-in-several-cities-nationwide).
The events of the past week were like a spark hitting the embers of a dying fire. The police shooting of Jacob Blake in Kenosha, Wisconsin, prompted a whole new round of protests, though news of such happenings being peaceful are sparse. Instead, we’ve seen protesters badgering diners (https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2020/08/25/dc-protesters-blm-diner-confrontation/) at restaurants. We’ve seen looters destroy businesses owned by immigrants (https://www.fox9.com/news/i-saw-the-fear-in-him-lotus-restaurant-owner-describes-intense-confrontation-with-looters) and minorities. And, worst of all, a teenager armed with a long rifle allegedly shot three people and killed two in Kenosha.
I can’t help but feel we are in a precarious place as a nation now. We were too polarized as a nation already as we headed into what was sure to be a fraught election year. The pandemic and the violence have only exacerbated that.  And it seems like we’ve lost the ability to make obvious, rational arguments. It should be easy to condemn violence and looting in favor of peaceful demonstrations. Instead, we have mayors and city councils goading police chiefs into resigning (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/08/11/seattle-police-chief-resign-following-nearly-4-million-budget-cuts/3342382001/), and NPR featuring authors who write books literally titled, In Defense of Looting (https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2020/08/27/906642178/one-authors-argument-in-defense-of-looting). Similarly, it should be easy to condemn  vigilantism, but instead we have people trying to make a hero out of Kyle Rittenhouse (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/08/conservatives-defend-kenosha-shooter-kyle-rittenhouse.html). 
Andrew Sullivan wrote about the violence this week, and cautions that the Democrats are “walking into a trap (https://andrewsullivan.substack.com/p/the-trap-the-democrats-walked-right)” in terms of the election. Bridget Phetasy, a writer and podcaster who describes herself as “politically homeless” and whose work I’ve really come to enjoy, puts it in even starker terms (https://spectator.us/wont-vote-2020-election/): “Almost everyone I know here in LA is buying a gun, stocking up on water and wondering what the aftermath of the election results will look like. If Trump wins, I reckon America will burn. If Trump loses, America will burn. Either way, I’m preparing for America to burn.”
I wouldn’t say that I’m not quite that pessimistic yet. But I will say that in our conversations with our kids about these matters, it’s getting a little harder to say with confidence that our country is better than the current moment would indicate, or that we’re strong enough to overcome these struggles. . . .

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2020, 04:05:28 PM
Earned Income Tax Credit?  Does it work as I described Friedman's plan?
Not exactly.  But it's there.  One could argue it should be expanded and enlarged.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 30, 2020, 04:21:17 PM
A few days ago, a guy approaches me asking for something to eat, or some money, I forget his story.  I say wait here, I'll bring you a sandwich in 15 minutes (it was near home).  I walk home, fix a sandwich, throw in a cold Coke can, and some crackers.  I got back, he's waiting, and he asks me, again, for money.

I don't carry cash around.  I tell him that, he gets a bit smarmy telling me he really needs money.  Sorry, I don't have cash, I walk off.

He's cussing me out as I walk off.

I think he threw the sandwich in the garbage can
Use to have a pan handler at one of the grocery stores - same thing.I'd reach in my bag give him some bananas/apples/lunch meat.Sometimes he'd take it.I know the guy in the meat dept and they had him removed I did see him scratching off lottery tickets during the smoking break.Manager even offered him a job corraling carts,bagging and flattening boxes but evidently he refused
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 30, 2020, 04:55:06 PM
They have deserted middle America and this will show up on election day
I agree but Trumps tax changes did the same,I might show up just to vote Libertarian
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 30, 2020, 05:05:26 PM
I agree but Trumps tax changes did the same,I might show up just to vote Libertarian
Well if youre not voting for Trump voting 3rd party is the next best thing.

You dont think Trump's tax cut helped middle America?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 30, 2020, 06:18:47 PM
The Dispatch Weekly
Our Best Work From a Truly Ugly Week in America
Riots and looting and vigilantism have us all on edge.

Rachael Larimore (https://thedispatch.com/people/4860655-rachael-larimore)Aug 2937 (http://javascript:void(0))227 (https://weekly.thedispatch.com/p/our-best-work-from-a-truly-ugly-week/comments) (http://javascript:void(0))



(https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F89662253-af56-4d8a-9a21-0ee57407c19a_5184x3396.jpeg) (https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F89662253-af56-4d8a-9a21-0ee57407c19a_5184x3396.jpeg)
Back when protests first sprang up in response to George Floyd’s death, I was actually a little optimistic. Let me explain. Even as riots and looting took place in Minneapolis and other large cities, peaceful demonstrations and marches were taking place in small towns and quiet suburbs all over the country.
My hometown (Alliance, Ohio) was featured in national news stories (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/annehelenpetersen/black-lives-matter-protests-near-me-small-towns) for its successful protest. Our oldest son attended a Black Lives Matter rally and march in our suburb, and we live in a county where Donald Trump got 68 percent of the vote in 2016. Not only was it peaceful, the chief of police gave a heartfelt speech to the crowd, and thanked the organizers for helping increase his awareness. More people than I can count shared Dave Chappelle’s 8:46 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tR6mKcBbT4) special. Occasionally, a fruitful and respectful conversation broke out on social media. It seemed like there was a glimmer of hope not only that we could make some headway on racism in America but that maybe people weren’t quite as divided as we thought.
So much for all of that. Activists took advantage of sympathetic mayors in big cities, giving us the CHAZ/CHOP in Seattle (where protesters made demands about “defunding the police” behind blockades protected by armed civilians (https://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2020/06/seattle-police-chief-speaks-out-on-chaz-leaving-the-precinct-was-not-my-decision/)) and more than two months of nightly violence in Portland. As mayors became nervous about deploying police to maintain the peace, violent crime has increased (https://www.npr.org/2020/08/14/902456117/violent-crime-increases-in-several-cities-nationwide).
The events of the past week were like a spark hitting the embers of a dying fire. The police shooting of Jacob Blake in Kenosha, Wisconsin, prompted a whole new round of protests, though news of such happenings being peaceful are sparse. Instead, we’ve seen protesters badgering diners (https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2020/08/25/dc-protesters-blm-diner-confrontation/) at restaurants. We’ve seen looters destroy businesses owned by immigrants (https://www.fox9.com/news/i-saw-the-fear-in-him-lotus-restaurant-owner-describes-intense-confrontation-with-looters) and minorities. And, worst of all, a teenager armed with a long rifle allegedly shot three people and killed two in Kenosha.
I can’t help but feel we are in a precarious place as a nation now. We were too polarized as a nation already as we headed into what was sure to be a fraught election year. The pandemic and the violence have only exacerbated that.  And it seems like we’ve lost the ability to make obvious, rational arguments. It should be easy to condemn violence and looting in favor of peaceful demonstrations. Instead, we have mayors and city councils goading police chiefs into resigning (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/08/11/seattle-police-chief-resign-following-nearly-4-million-budget-cuts/3342382001/), and NPR featuring authors who write books literally titled, In Defense of Looting (https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2020/08/27/906642178/one-authors-argument-in-defense-of-looting). Similarly, it should be easy to condemn  vigilantism, but instead we have people trying to make a hero out of Kyle Rittenhouse (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/08/conservatives-defend-kenosha-shooter-kyle-rittenhouse.html).
Andrew Sullivan wrote about the violence this week, and cautions that the Democrats are “walking into a trap (https://andrewsullivan.substack.com/p/the-trap-the-democrats-walked-right)” in terms of the election. Bridget Phetasy, a writer and podcaster who describes herself as “politically homeless” and whose work I’ve really come to enjoy, puts it in even starker terms (https://spectator.us/wont-vote-2020-election/): “Almost everyone I know here in LA is buying a gun, stocking up on water and wondering what the aftermath of the election results will look like. If Trump wins, I reckon America will burn. If Trump loses, America will burn. Either way, I’m preparing for America to burn.”
I wouldn’t say that I’m not quite that pessimistic yet. But I will say that in our conversations with our kids about these matters, it’s getting a little harder to say with confidence that our country is better than the current moment would indicate, or that we’re strong enough to overcome these struggles. . . .


Well written.  Sums up my feelings at the moment. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on August 30, 2020, 06:51:47 PM
The Dispatch Weekly
Our Best Work From a Truly Ugly Week in America
Riots and looting and vigilantism have us all on edge.

Rachael Larimore (https://thedispatch.com/people/4860655-rachael-larimore)Aug 2937 (http://javascript:void(0))227 (https://weekly.thedispatch.com/p/our-best-work-from-a-truly-ugly-week/comments) (http://javascript:void(0))



(https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F89662253-af56-4d8a-9a21-0ee57407c19a_5184x3396.jpeg) (https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F89662253-af56-4d8a-9a21-0ee57407c19a_5184x3396.jpeg)
Back when protests first sprang up in response to George Floyd’s death, I was actually a little optimistic. Let me explain. Even as riots and looting took place in Minneapolis and other large cities, peaceful demonstrations and marches were taking place in small towns and quiet suburbs all over the country.
My hometown (Alliance, Ohio) was featured in national news stories (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/annehelenpetersen/black-lives-matter-protests-near-me-small-towns) for its successful protest. Our oldest son attended a Black Lives Matter rally and march in our suburb, and we live in a county where Donald Trump got 68 percent of the vote in 2016. Not only was it peaceful, the chief of police gave a heartfelt speech to the crowd, and thanked the organizers for helping increase his awareness. More people than I can count shared Dave Chappelle’s 8:46 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tR6mKcBbT4) special. Occasionally, a fruitful and respectful conversation broke out on social media. It seemed like there was a glimmer of hope not only that we could make some headway on racism in America but that maybe people weren’t quite as divided as we thought.
So much for all of that. Activists took advantage of sympathetic mayors in big cities, giving us the CHAZ/CHOP in Seattle (where protesters made demands about “defunding the police” behind blockades protected by armed civilians (https://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2020/06/seattle-police-chief-speaks-out-on-chaz-leaving-the-precinct-was-not-my-decision/)) and more than two months of nightly violence in Portland. As mayors became nervous about deploying police to maintain the peace, violent crime has increased (https://www.npr.org/2020/08/14/902456117/violent-crime-increases-in-several-cities-nationwide).
The events of the past week were like a spark hitting the embers of a dying fire. The police shooting of Jacob Blake in Kenosha, Wisconsin, prompted a whole new round of protests, though news of such happenings being peaceful are sparse. Instead, we’ve seen protesters badgering diners (https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2020/08/25/dc-protesters-blm-diner-confrontation/) at restaurants. We’ve seen looters destroy businesses owned by immigrants (https://www.fox9.com/news/i-saw-the-fear-in-him-lotus-restaurant-owner-describes-intense-confrontation-with-looters) and minorities. And, worst of all, a teenager armed with a long rifle allegedly shot three people and killed two in Kenosha.
I can’t help but feel we are in a precarious place as a nation now. We were too polarized as a nation already as we headed into what was sure to be a fraught election year. The pandemic and the violence have only exacerbated that.  And it seems like we’ve lost the ability to make obvious, rational arguments. It should be easy to condemn violence and looting in favor of peaceful demonstrations. Instead, we have mayors and city councils goading police chiefs into resigning (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/08/11/seattle-police-chief-resign-following-nearly-4-million-budget-cuts/3342382001/), and NPR featuring authors who write books literally titled, In Defense of Looting (https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2020/08/27/906642178/one-authors-argument-in-defense-of-looting). Similarly, it should be easy to condemn  vigilantism, but instead we have people trying to make a hero out of Kyle Rittenhouse (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/08/conservatives-defend-kenosha-shooter-kyle-rittenhouse.html).
Andrew Sullivan wrote about the violence this week, and cautions that the Democrats are “walking into a trap (https://andrewsullivan.substack.com/p/the-trap-the-democrats-walked-right)” in terms of the election. Bridget Phetasy, a writer and podcaster who describes herself as “politically homeless” and whose work I’ve really come to enjoy, puts it in even starker terms (https://spectator.us/wont-vote-2020-election/): “Almost everyone I know here in LA is buying a gun, stocking up on water and wondering what the aftermath of the election results will look like. If Trump wins, I reckon America will burn. If Trump loses, America will burn. Either way, I’m preparing for America to burn.”
I wouldn’t say that I’m not quite that pessimistic yet. But I will say that in our conversations with our kids about these matters, it’s getting a little harder to say with confidence that our country is better than the current moment would indicate, or that we’re strong enough to overcome these struggles. . . .


So to things in this popped out to me and I kinda wanted to delve into them.

1. "NPR featuring authors who write books literally titled, In Defense of Looting (https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2020/08/27/906642178/one-authors-argument-in-defense-of-looting)."
I found this 
notable because media outlets for a long time ran all sorts of weird, extreme stuff on both sides. Like, it was just seen as part of the landscape that an outlet might interview a controversial figure or profile one or accept a piece of writing that just represented opinion (letters to the editor). But at some point, it became very, very important to say, "how dare this outlet give that person attention!" I think it has to do with the internet, which makes media more permanent. I couldn't share what I heard on the radio or saw on TV news. And the newspaper got replaced by a new one every day. And maybe I'd take offense in the moment, but it wouldn't become quite as much of a thing. And if NPR had a person on who had an unnuanced take on the role of modern militia movements and why they're super great, I think that would be fine (I'm also here for nuanced takes on militias. I think there's interesting discussion about looting, how it tacks alongside protest and how people don't notice protest without disruption, but am not really here for many defenses of it). 

2. “Almost everyone I know here in LA is buying a gun, stocking up on water and wondering what the aftermath of the election results will look like. If Trump wins, I reckon America will burn. If Trump loses, America will burn. Either way, I’m preparing for America to burn.”
This strikes me as a traditional sort of American pessimism. The country was going to hell in the 60s, and 70s and 80s, and parts of the 2000s. Predicting the worst is as American as apple pie. And I know it goes against all that, but I'm an optimist. I've lived in places where folks have a lot of guns for nearly a decade. And folks are still folks. They want to go to school, work, meet friends, see their kids are doing stuff they like. Perhaps the fringes are more fringy, and those fringes are certianly more highlighted and better organized, but most folks go along and get along despite all this. (I also find it funny because I live in a county that's highly on one side of the political spectrum next door to one on the extreme other. And both work off one another, functioning symbiotically even in our charged times)

Bonus: The idea that "Democrats are walking into a trap." This is one of those dire comments that doesn't really matter right now. People vote in November. Things will be different then. Now maybe this is the trap, Democrats climbing atop a high horse too high. But we've had all sorts of dire warnings before all sorts of elections, and it's mostly hard to tell if these are real things or just noise. It also led me to remember that NAFTA was mostly the work of presidents from 1980-1992, with a member of the opposite party carrying it over the finish line. First this is funny because just imagine that kind of transition process. But also, imagine telling one of those two presidents that a member of their party would one day use their vision as a cudgel to crush a member of the opposite party. The future is aways weird, and the trap isn't usually that out in the open. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 30, 2020, 07:15:32 PM
But what if "government help" is a major reason that the homeless person is homeless?  (And, in real life, that is often the case.)  Is more of it going to be the fix?
If bad policies are ineffective, why is the answer to have no policies?  Why not better policies?  

Earned assistance in various ways, etc.  I don't have all the ideas, but if something hasn't worked, you try something else.  We don't pretend everyone's uphill climb has the same distance, obstacles, and is at the same incline.  

I live in a poor area and one thing I've noticed is that another way the poor are behind is time.  Everything takes longer for them.  Half their lives are spent waiting - waiting on the bus, waiting in lines, waiting longer at appointments....taking longer to pay things off and thus spending more money on the same item.  

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 30, 2020, 08:04:32 PM
If bad policies are ineffective, why is the answer to have no policies?  Why not better policies? 

Earned assistance in various ways, etc.  I don't have all the ideas, but if something hasn't worked, you try something else.  We don't pretend everyone's uphill climb has the same distance, obstacles, and is at the same incline. 

I live in a poor area and one thing I've noticed is that another way the poor are behind is time.  Everything takes longer for them.  Half their lives are spent waiting - waiting on the bus, waiting in lines, waiting longer at appointments....taking longer to pay things off and thus spending more money on the same item.
I don't see much suggesting of better policies.  Instead, it's the same-old, same-old, except with more money.
Do you have specific programs you'd like to see tried?
Good point about time.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 30, 2020, 08:35:33 PM
https://twitter.com/yayitsrob/status/1300195929996382214?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 30, 2020, 09:08:15 PM
That's hard to read.  Maybe this will work better.

(https://i.imgur.com/RIYuyfF.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 30, 2020, 09:16:01 PM
https://youtu.be/PUif106VC-o?t=1
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 30, 2020, 09:18:10 PM
No matter how radical you THINK Biden or Democrats are, they're nowhere near the absurdities Trump & Co. are putting out there.  It's like cartoony silliness.  


It's hard to respect people when they can't tell they're being pandered to or fear-mongered in such a way.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 30, 2020, 09:31:27 PM
if leaders of impoverished and minority communities would speak up about the way to better themselves, it would help more than most government programs. IMO

maybe a high percentage can't be NBA players or hollywood actors, but if more downtrodden folks would accept responsibility, raise their children with better expectations, and quit relying on handouts and blaming the government or rich/white folks for their situation..............

yes , we/they understand that the playing field isn't level.............  that's unfortunate and unfair, but........... there's only one real way to help yourself and your neighbors.  

Rise above it

asking the government to rescue the masses from oppression and poverty hasn't worked for decades and probably won't work for decades.  The government isn't real good at doing anything.

Asking the very rich 10% to create a better world isn't working and hasn't worked in the past.

sending a clear and unified message regarding how to help yourself is probably a must better choice
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 30, 2020, 09:41:29 PM
No matter how radical you THINK Biden or Democrats are, they're nowhere near the absurdities Trump & Co. are putting out there.  It's like cartoony silliness. 


It's hard to respect people when they can't tell they're being pandered to or fear-mongered in such a way. 
Your focus group of one.  Wrong again.

absurd is supporting  and enabling rioting, looting and destruction under the false premise of protesting.  Violence. 99 days and counting.
and then blaming someone else for it.  They reaped what they sowed.
it’s hard to respect people who start trouble, and then cry when it blows up in their face.

the stuff Pelosi, Obama, Biden, Schurmer, Schmitt and these Dem mayors out there is clown like- and has no credibility.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 30, 2020, 09:48:56 PM
I forgot to mention funding the violence.  But I guess if you can get into one of the nicest hotels in town, like some of the rioters at the RNC convention did for their out of town stay( stayed at the same hotel as some of the dignitaries they tried to attack) why not?

Step one left- stop the violence.  Until then, no conversations in the world will improve this. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 30, 2020, 09:52:20 PM
No matter how radical you THINK Biden or Democrats are, they're nowhere near the absurdities Trump & Co. are putting out there.  It's like cartoony silliness. 


It's hard to respect people when they can't tell they're being pandered to or fear-mongered in such a way. 
just keep telling yourself that OAM

you should have gotten a better candidate cause this one will go down faster then the Titanic
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 30, 2020, 09:55:02 PM
If bad policies are ineffective, why is the answer to have no policies?  Why not better policies? 

when is the last time a better policy succeeded?
the Government doesn't succeed for many bad reasons
ok, maybe in a small way the school lunch program succeeded in providing meals to underprivileged children


what about adults?  you know, the folks that should be providing for their children 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2020, 08:43:22 AM
If the answer is to have better policies, why don't we have them?  I think by definition a bad policy is worse than no policy at all.  Ergo, bad policies should be stopped.

Period.

Now, if we want to try new policies that may be good, fine with me.  But stop any known bad policy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2020, 08:45:46 AM
One common theme I see on social media and of course the site here down south a ways is that if we elect A, the world as we know it will be shattered beyond recovery.  The other side of course claims that about B.

I recall hearing the same thing about Obama, and Bush, most important election in our lifetime.

And yet we're still here, as a country.  I suspect whoever wins, in 4 years or 8, we'll still be around, maybe not like you'd like, but we won't be somehow beyond recognition.  The FFs made it tough to make substantive change without a lot of agreement.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 31, 2020, 08:55:49 AM
If the answer is to have better policies, why don't we have them?  I think by definition a bad policy is worse than no policy at all.  Ergo, bad policies should be stopped.
At a federal Level I have to believe the polls are almost rigged by big money special interests left & right.C'mon Joe Biden,Donald Trump,Nancy Pelosi how'd any of these stewed newts get nominated much less elected?I would invite none of them to dinner nor would I accept an invitation from them.As 94 says - I weep for the future
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2020, 09:00:22 AM
I'm speaking in theory.  If a policy is bad, it should be ended, period, even if we have no substitute for it.  SHOULD is the operative term.

I'm speaking to folks who think a bad policy should be retained if there is nothing better out there.  I disagree.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2020, 09:02:42 AM
No matter how radical you THINK Biden or Democrats are, they're nowhere near the absurdities Trump & Co. are putting out there.  It's like cartoony silliness. 

What in your view is the very worst thing Trump is putting out there, verbiage aside?  I mean not what he says, but what he has done, or not done, or even promises to do.

I agree his verbiage is "singular".
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 31, 2020, 09:07:00 AM
If we have policymakers such as them there will be nothing but problems IMO - drain the freakin' swamp
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 31, 2020, 09:34:24 AM
If the answer is to have better policies, why don't we have them?  I think by definition a bad policy is worse than no policy at all.  Ergo, bad policies should be stopped.

Period.

Now, if we want to try new policies that may be good, fine with me.  But stop any known bad policy.
I'm speaking in theory.  If a policy is bad, it should be ended, period, even if we have no substitute for it.  SHOULD is the operative term.

I'm speaking to folks who think a bad policy should be retained if there is nothing better out there.  I disagree.
Ok, if you find a policy that is entirely bad, then let's scrap it. 

The problem is that it's rarely that simple. All policies have intended consequences (the good things they're supposed to do) and unintended consequences (the negative things that occur due to the distortions created by the intended consequences). 

What many of us complain about is the unintended consequences of specific policies, and that's why we call them "bad". But that doesn't mean the policies are 100% bad, or even "on net" bad. Throwing them out wholesale may get rid of the bad unintended consequences, but perhaps giving up the good from those policies would make things worse. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2020, 09:35:58 AM
Yup, that is why I was speaking in theory.  I do think the ethanol for gasoline is pretty much 99.999% bad.

And we can't end that one.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 31, 2020, 09:42:37 AM
At a federal Level I have to believe the polls are almost rigged by big money special interests left & right.C'mon Joe Biden,Donald Trump,Nancy Pelosi how'd any of these stewed newts get nominated much less elected?I would invite none of them to dinner nor would I accept an invitation from them.As 94 says - I weep for the future
Pelosi - has been in the house since 1987
Biden - been in the senate since 1973

weep for the past while you're weeping
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 31, 2020, 09:43:54 AM
Yup, that is why I was speaking in theory.  I do think the ethanol for gasoline is pretty much 99.999% bad.

And we can't end that one.
Iowa corn growers and Ethanol employees would make up more than 0.001%
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2020, 09:54:27 AM
The EPA a decade back MANDATED that we have cellulosic ethanol by now in gasoline.  MANDATED.  My buddies and I got interested and looked into CE and concluded "Well, this is unlikely to happen in reality.  What does the EPA do then?"

The EPA apparently has ignored their own mandate.  A couple of small plants tried to start up making CE and had to shut down, it's not technologically feasible, never has been, except on a pilot demonstration scale.

So, we still have corn based ethanol, not CE, even in Brazil where we thought there was a chance it might work.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 31, 2020, 10:12:40 AM
wind power incentives in the same boat?

just a great way for Warren Buffet to make a few coins?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2020, 10:28:22 AM
At least wind generates electricity, and I keep hearing it's now cheaper than anything else, so it shouldn't need incentives.

I think most of us think we need some kind of government assistance for needy families.  The form of that could be discussed ad nauseum.

I suggested each family living in poverty get a government check for the amount needed to get them above the poverty level.  And every other program stops.  No HUD, no Medicare, no welfare, a check, here ya go.  You're now out of poverty.  Do with it as you will.  As you begin to work, the check drops off with 50% of your after tax earnings.

That of course would have "issues" in many cases.

No more poverty, technically defined.  And it would be cheaper.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2020, 10:29:26 AM
I keep looking for data on testing of a thousand or so "rep pop" groups to see how pervasive this is.

I'm surprised it has not been done, or reported anyway.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 31, 2020, 10:37:53 AM
Yup, that is why I was speaking in theory.  I do think the ethanol for gasoline is pretty much 99.999% bad.

And we can't end that one.
Ahh, but that policy is entirely achieving it's intended consequences...

...being something that Presidential candidates can use to try to win Iowa's primary by promising to protect/keep/expand.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on August 31, 2020, 10:39:44 AM
I blame Iowa and ALL of its inhabitants.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2020, 10:40:36 AM
I blame Iowa and ALL of its inhabitants.
They should all move to Austin, or Phoenix.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 31, 2020, 10:47:02 AM
I keep looking for data on testing of a thousand or so "rep pop" groups to see how pervasive this is.

I'm surprised it has not been done, or reported anyway.
its relative geographically 

you would need to do these tests all over the country and also its a point in time so no guarantee it would represent the situation a month from now
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 31, 2020, 10:49:48 AM
But what if "government help" is a major reason that the homeless person is homeless?  (And, in real life, that is often the case.)  Is more of it going to be the fix?
We've had major government help since 1966 (when the War on Poverty/Great Society programs began coming on line) and the poverty rate is now what it was then--it bumps along between 11% and 14%.
It's not only blatantly discriminatory policies like FHA redlining that have hurt poor people in general and black people particularly, it's also "good" legislation like minimum-wage laws, which make it harder for less-educated, less-skilled, less-experienced workers find work.  That impacts black people disproportionately.  And there's the Wagner Act--organized labor's "Magna Carta"--of the New Deal.  It dictated that businesses contracting with the federal government must pay the "prevailing wage."  That meant the union wage.  And most trade unions excluded blacks.  Awhile back I read an analysis (the details of which I now unfortunately forget) showing that that policy is still adversely affecting black Americans.
In general, many federal welfare programs have discouraged work and encouraged single-parent families, which are exactly the wrong incentives for poor people in general and especially for black Americans, where the lack of a father, married to the mother, in the home helping to raise the children, is at the heart of many social ills.
I'd be willing to try a negative income tax plan like Milton Friedman (Mr. Free Market) advocated ca. 1970.  Basically, the government sets a certain amount of income for a given family size, and if the family income is less than that, the government pays 80% (or some other percentage) of the difference.  There's help, but there's still an incentive for the breadwinner(s) of that family to keep striving for more income.  And it would eliminate vast swaths of the welfare bureaucracy, which may be a major reason that it didn't make it through Congress back during the Nixon administration.  Those welfare workers are unionized, and they vote, and their unions donate to political campaigns.
I'd like to see some social stigmas return.
For fathers who don't bother to marry the mothers of their children, and then abandon them to go spread their pollen elsewhere.  (Oops!  That would describe some large proportion of professional athletes, our idols.)
For unwed mothers in general (on principle) and especially for young, poor unwed mothers.  Cheap contraceptives are widely available, but we subsidize bad choices, encouraging more of them.
For parents who can't manage to get up in the morning and feed their children, leaving it up to the schools to do the job instead.
You nailed it with this post. While gov't programs may do some good on the surface, they create a lifestyle of dependency that is hard to escape. And when the gov't then rewards bad behavior (fatherless homes, teenage girls having children, etc.) it makes it even worse. 

The lesson to be learned here is that the gov't should NOT be in the business of a charity. The gov't exists for 1 reason only, to protect the rights of it's citizens. PERIOD. Whenever the gov't gets involved trying to help one group by taking from another, it will ALWAYS end badly. Sure, they intended to do good, but in the end, the results were terrible and usually either make the situation worse, or at best, maintains the status quo. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 31, 2020, 11:47:48 AM
They should all move to Austin, or Phoenix.
Austin

don't move to the dessert, no good water
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 31, 2020, 11:49:52 AM
Austin

don't move to the dessert, no good water
No No No move to the dessert

thats where the beautiful people are
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 31, 2020, 11:53:08 AM
speaking of living in the dessert:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKNoJ2BzSRU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKNoJ2BzSRU)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2020, 12:00:02 PM
Austin

don't move to the dessert, no good water
Now I'm hungry for cheesecake.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 31, 2020, 12:02:21 PM
Y'all, I think I'm going to concentrate my clicks elsewhere, going forward (meaning elsewhere on this site, not completely somewhere else).

But before I go, a couple of things.

1) Keep blaming the poor for being poor.

2) Keep telling yourselves that all government (or merely most) is bad government. Think about the United States' best moments and achievements, and consider how many of them happened in lieu of or in spite of government intervention. I'll click back here to see what you list, at least a little bit.

3) Keep telling yourself that the guy who's raison d'etre is making fun of people who disagree with him isn't fanning the flames of hatred and division in this country.

4) This is probably my only substantive point: you like to point to government safety net problems as the cause of the nations social ills, but those programs were implemented because of those ills. While you point to the Great Society as the reason for poverty and the shrinking middle class, the loss of union power in the private sector correlates even better with the decline of the middle class. Unions (for all their faults, and like any person-run organization, they have plenty of them) helped distribute wealth to the working class, rather than to the ownership class. It worked for much of the post-war period, but in the 1970s union power started to decline. Unions have always been in the cross hairs of the ownership class because they do just that, they distribute wealth down to the workers, which, in turn, protects the middle class. One unfortunate thing that Badge--or one of you, anyway--hinted at above was the clash between the civil rights movement and the private labor unions. Labor unions exist to force management to the bargaining table over wages/benefits and to protect jobs. However, when the civil rights movement gained momentum, that created a conflict between protecting jobs and giving black people (primarily) a seat at the union bargaining table. The ownership class, which has predominantly been Republican, has been more than happy to exploit that schism to keep working class laborers struggling against the civil rights movement, and vice versa. However, we're now at a point in our country's history that private labor unions have lost much of their power, but they are no longer the bastion of whiteness that they were in the 1950s. If private labor were to regain strength today, the clash over job protection and race has largely vanished, so a rising labor movement would raise all working class labor, not just white (or black, latino, etc.) labor.

In the short term, stronger private labor unions might put a dent in my 401K, but in the long term, they would make for a stronger middle class, less poverty, a rising standard of living, and a more stable, better country.

Alright--time for me to (mostly) read other threads. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on August 31, 2020, 12:06:13 PM
You nailed it with this post. While gov't programs may do some good on the surface, they create a lifestyle of dependency that is hard to escape. And when the gov't then rewards bad behavior (fatherless homes, teenage girls having children, etc.) it makes it even worse.

The lesson to be learned here is that the gov't should NOT be in the business of a charity. The gov't exists for 1 reason only, to protect the rights of it's citizens. PERIOD. Whenever the gov't gets involved trying to help one group by taking from another, it will ALWAYS end badly. Sure, they intended to do good, but in the end, the results were terrible and usually either make the situation worse, or at best, maintains the status quo.
I dunno. A lot of these seem to be just looking at the downside of any particular problem without much context. Interstates make people dependent on cars, but it's rarely described as a nanny state program.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 31, 2020, 12:17:58 PM
we have used legislation to cure social ills since this country's inception and I dont expect it to stop


unfortunately now days its not only legislation but the federal court system as well
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2020, 12:21:13 PM
I don't think most of us would eliminate the social safety net completely.  Maybe some would.  I would not.  The War on Poverty actually did reduce poverty initially, there was a fairly quick drop in measured poverty, and then it has lingered with little variation since.

I'm surprised there isn't more discussion about how to implement better ideas, but I think quite a few of our issues are kept alive by both political parties to create "energy" and dissension.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2020, 12:27:15 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyPo2s63DAk&fbclid=IwAR35Xb6Ei_Hzv4nHk7FxSg5d-aHFnJ5lpHEEW_ozTdVj7vV2YVkGVTw8gw8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyPo2s63DAk&fbclid=IwAR35Xb6Ei_Hzv4nHk7FxSg5d-aHFnJ5lpHEEW_ozTdVj7vV2YVkGVTw8gw8)

Organ music.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 31, 2020, 12:29:28 PM
Y'all, I think I'm going to concentrate my clicks elsewhere, going forward (meaning elsewhere on this site, not completely somewhere else).

But before I go, a couple of things.

1) Keep blaming the poor for being poor.

2) Keep telling yourselves that all government (or merely most) is bad government. Think about the United States' best moments and achievements, and consider how many of them happened in lieu of or in spite of government intervention. I'll click back here to see what you list, at least a little bit.

3) Keep telling yourself that the guy who's raison d'etre is making fun of people who disagree with him isn't fanning the flames of hatred and division in this country.

4) This is probably my only substantive point: you like to point to government safety net problems as the cause of the nations social ills, but those programs were implemented because of those ills. While you point to the Great Society as the reason for poverty and the shrinking middle class, the loss of union power in the private sector correlates even better with the decline of the middle class. Unions (for all their faults, and like any person-run organization, they have plenty of them) helped distribute wealth to the working class, rather than to the ownership class. It worked for much of the post-war period, but in the 1970s union power started to decline. Unions have always been in the cross hairs of the ownership class because they do just that, they distribute wealth down to the workers, which, in turn, protects the middle class. One unfortunate thing that Badge--or one of you, anyway--hinted at above was the clash between the civil rights movement and the private labor unions. Labor unions exist to force management to the bargaining table over wages/benefits and to protect jobs. However, when the civil rights movement gained momentum, that created a conflict between protecting jobs and giving black people (primarily) a seat at the union bargaining table. The ownership class, which has predominantly been Republican, has been more than happy to exploit that schism to keep working class laborers struggling against the civil rights movement, and vice versa. However, we're now at a point in our country's history that private labor unions have lost much of their power, but they are no longer the bastion of whiteness that they were in the 1950s. If private labor were to regain strength today, the clash over job protection and race has largely vanished, so a rising labor movement would raise all working class labor, not just white (or black, latino, etc.) labor.

In the short term, stronger private labor unions might put a dent in my 401K, but in the long term, they would make for a stronger middle class, less poverty, a rising standard of living, and a more stable, better country.

Alright--time for me to (mostly) read other threads.


I actually don't mind private sector unions. In many ways they are still needed, in many ways they are not, but I lean toward the need is still there. Of course, I see a lot of this in the construction industry. They are really strong in Illinois.

It's the public sector unions that are in my crosshairs. Those have to go.

Good post SF. I'd like to see more like these rather than ones that simply rail on the POTUS or his challenger.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 31, 2020, 12:30:10 PM
I don't think most of us would eliminate the social safety net completely.  Maybe some would.  I would not.  The War on Poverty actually did reduce poverty initially, there was a fairly quick drop in measured poverty, and then it has lingered with little variation since.

I'm surprised there isn't more discussion about how to implement better ideas, but I think quite a few of our issues are kept alive by both political parties to create "energy" and dissension.
I will continue to ask until I am blue in the face.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2020, 12:45:11 PM
1.  End the war on drugs.  End it.  Have clinics.

2.  Condense the litany of poverty programs into one check.

3.  Reallocate police funding to include some social worker types.

We have "Meter Maids", why not expand them into traffic control folks who are unarmed and deal with traffic etc.  Some 911 calls probably are manageable with unarmed folks trained to defuse crises.  Some, not all.  Put more emphasis on discipline in struggling schools and figure out a better way to fund the ones that lack a tax base.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 31, 2020, 12:46:54 PM
loved the organ music now for a little change of pace

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol7yPawhzM0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol7yPawhzM0)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 31, 2020, 01:01:12 PM
1.  End the war on drugs.  End it.  Have clinics.

2.  Condense the litany of poverty programs into one check.

3.  Reallocate police funding to include some social worker types.

We have "Meter Maids", why not expand them into traffic control folks who are unarmed and deal with traffic etc.  Some 911 calls probably are manageable with unarmed folks trained to defuse crises.  Some, not all.  Put more emphasis on discipline in struggling schools and figure out a better way to fund the ones that lack a tax base.
1. Good idea. Obviously the war is not working. Time for something new.

2. Great idea. There are too many programs. Pair it down, and tie aid to accomplishment in say, community service, or finding a job - any job, or education.

3. No. The departments need more funding - not less. I like the social worker aspects, and better training for all police, including, most importantly, diffusing tough situations.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 31, 2020, 01:06:30 PM
Y'all, I think I'm going to concentrate my clicks elsewhere, going forward (meaning elsewhere on this site, not completely somewhere else).

But before I go, a couple of things.

1) Keep blaming the poor for being poor.

2) Keep telling yourselves that all government (or merely most) is bad government. Think about the United States' best moments and achievements, and consider how many of them happened in lieu of or in spite of government intervention. I'll click back here to see what you list, at least a little bit.

3) Keep telling yourself that the guy who's raison d'etre is making fun of people who disagree with him isn't fanning the flames of hatred and division in this country.

4) This is probably my only substantive point: you like to point to government safety net problems as the cause of the nations social ills, but those programs were implemented because of those ills. While you point to the Great Society as the reason for poverty and the shrinking middle class, the loss of union power in the private sector correlates even better with the decline of the middle class. Unions (for all their faults, and like any person-run organization, they have plenty of them) helped distribute wealth to the working class, rather than to the ownership class. It worked for much of the post-war period, but in the 1970s union power started to decline. Unions have always been in the cross hairs of the ownership class because they do just that, they distribute wealth down to the workers, which, in turn, protects the middle class. One unfortunate thing that Badge--or one of you, anyway--hinted at above was the clash between the civil rights movement and the private labor unions. Labor unions exist to force management to the bargaining table over wages/benefits and to protect jobs. However, when the civil rights movement gained momentum, that created a conflict between protecting jobs and giving black people (primarily) a seat at the union bargaining table. The ownership class, which has predominantly been Republican, has been more than happy to exploit that schism to keep working class laborers struggling against the civil rights movement, and vice versa. However, we're now at a point in our country's history that private labor unions have lost much of their power, but they are no longer the bastion of whiteness that they were in the 1950s. If private labor were to regain strength today, the clash over job protection and race has largely vanished, so a rising labor movement would raise all working class labor, not just white (or black, latino, etc.) labor.

In the short term, stronger private labor unions might put a dent in my 401K, but in the long term, they would make for a stronger middle class, less poverty, a rising standard of living, and a more stable, better country.

Alright--time for me to (mostly) read other threads.


As for number 1-  I am not seeing that here.
as for number 3, there are MANY people in positions of political and social leadership fanning, and funding those flames.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2020, 01:10:23 PM

3. No. The departments need more funding - not less. I like the social worker aspects, and better training for all police, including, most importantly, diffusing tough situations.
More funding might be needed, and more training, I'm suggesting some funding be allocated into other areas, maybe not away from but in addition to.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2020, 01:10:59 PM
We would not have sent some social worker in most of the recent "events", maybe the guy asleep at Wendy's would have been handled differently.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2020, 01:22:27 PM
When we moved here in 1964, we'd occasionally go see a movie at the Fox.  This was before theaters cropped up all around the suburbs.  I was fascinated by the organ rising out of the ground.  The Fox is a major landmark in the ATL, it has Moorish architecture, was intended as a Shriner's place.  They ran out of money.  It was almost demolished for a parking lot ca. 1970.  I'm sure they are suffering financially today, it's a nonprofit, and closed down.  This town likes to demolish things, I think we got that from Sherman.

(https://i.imgur.com/w8RvSOp.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/AkPv5GJ.jpg)



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 31, 2020, 01:23:35 PM
The NLRA (National Labor Relations Act) needs updating (or just repeal and replacing). It was written for a plant-based labor model. That's not where our work force resides today, and it largely leaves out most of our service industry jobs.

Both elected officials and--as importantly--private labor unions need to come to grips with how the work force has changed, and how the laws protecting unionizing need to be updated to reflect it.

That's a concrete change, but it's one that is very wonky/detail oriented.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 31, 2020, 01:25:57 PM
Also, what, specifically, is the war on drugs? What does it mean to end it?

I tend to think of it a bit like the Green New Deal: it's a slogan that includes a lot of different aspirational goals. The slogan is, I think, used to justify criminal justice policies relating to drug trafficking. But maybe I'm wrong.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2020, 01:30:14 PM
Also, what, specifically, is the war on drugs? What does it mean to end it?

I tend to think of it a bit like the Green New Deal: it's a slogan that includes a lot of different aspirational goals. The slogan is, I think, used to justify criminal justice policies relating to drug trafficking. But maybe I'm wrong.
Portugal, basically, at least a modified version thereof.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on August 31, 2020, 01:44:08 PM
I think step 1 in ending the War on Drugs is decriminalizing marijuana.  This has obviously already begun in some states/municipalities.  It's even being considered in the more conservative parts of Texas, which is something I never thought I'd see.

I don't think that's going to end the gang violence associated with territorial drug wars, because as long as ANY substances are contraband, there will always be a market for it, and there will always be a mechanism for producing and delivering it.  If the market prices are high enough, then there will be competition in that market.  And if there is competition in a market for illegal goods and services, then the competitors will inevitably resort to illegal means of protecting/expanding their sales territories within that market-- because they have no legal mechanism to resolve disputes.

But, decriminalizing weed is still a rational-- and I believe helpful-- first step.
 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 31, 2020, 01:44:44 PM
Also, what, specifically, is the war on drugs? What does it mean to end it?

I tend to think of it a bit like the Green New Deal: it's a slogan that includes a lot of different aspirational goals. The slogan is, I think, used to justify criminal justice policies relating to drug trafficking. But maybe I'm wrong.
The war on drugs, primarily, is the treatment of drug use/abuse as a criminal matter rather than a public health matter. 

When it gets into the nuts and bolts it basically boils down to drug use, in itself, being a "victimless crime". And I realize that you could say that the user is himself/herself a victim, but it's self-victimization by choice and therefore the user has no incentive to report a crime.

As such, policing of the "war on drugs" basically requires law enforcement to have to surveil / identify / stop purely voluntary transactions. This is in contrast to, say, rape or assault or theft where the injured party brings the offending act to the relevant authorities for redress. 

From a "social justice" standpoint, there are significant disparities in how the war on drugs is prosecuted depending on where you live. Timmy in the suburbs might get sentenced to a drug treatment program for cocaine possession and have the mark expunged from his record based upon successful completion, because Timmy's dad has a lot of money to hire a hotshot lawyer. Tyrone in the projects, however, gets caught with a dimebag of weed and carries "drug possession" on his rap sheet for the rest of his life, making it harder for him to ever rise out of poverty. 

To end the "war on drugs" means to primarily treat drug abuse as a health problem, and not a way to push ever greater numbers of people through "the system" and basically hamstring any efforts they will make to better themselves in the future.

It also means to treat drug use different than drug abuse, much the way we today have legal alcohol but treat alcoholism as a health issue. Where the "war on drugs" becomes so pernicious is that drug use is basically a normal, if not healthy, part of life for a lot of humanity. People enjoy altered mental states. But we criminalize drug use as if it is synonymous with drug addiction, while we don't criminalize sex even though some people are sex addicts, or criminalize gambling even though some people are gambling addicts, and don't criminalize alcohol consumption even though some people are alcoholics.

The goal of ending the war on drugs is to treat drug use as a problem, but not a criminal one.

Hence why some people even refer to it as the "War on (Some) Drugs", to highlight the hypocrisy of things like nicotine and alcohol being legal while [likely less-dangerous] drugs like marijuana are illegal. Nicotine is one of the most addictive substances on the planet, and smoking is a HUGE public health issue. Alcohol has enormous negative social impacts. Yet marijuana is not physically addictive, cannot be overdosed, and unlike alcohol doesn't often lead to violent behavior or cause "blackout" behavior. 

So while there's not one easy answer to exactly "what does ending the war on drugs mean?", hopefully that kind of gives you the framework for the what and the why. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 31, 2020, 01:52:46 PM
Bwar, I'm up on all of that and generally agree with the concept. But I think the details are pretty hard to work out. What we're saying when we say end the war on drugs is ending the police intervention in the drug trade? Presumably, like with alcohol and nicotine, we would legalize, standardize, and regulate (as opposed to criminlizing) the sale of mind-altering drugs? 

Is there any limit to that? Legalize and regulate all drugs? Heroin, cocaine, meth, fentanyl?

[I'm doing a terrible job of staying out of this thread...]
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 31, 2020, 01:52:59 PM
Y'all, I think I'm going to concentrate my clicks elsewhere, going forward (meaning elsewhere on this site, not completely somewhere else).

But before I go, a couple of things.

1) Keep blaming the poor for being poor.

2) Keep telling yourselves that all government (or merely most) is bad government. Think about the United States' best moments and achievements, and consider how many of them happened in lieu of or in spite of government intervention. I'll click back here to see what you list, at least a little bit.

3) Keep telling yourself that the guy who's raison d'etre is making fun of people who disagree with him isn't fanning the flames of hatred and division in this country.

4) This is probably my only substantive point: you like to point to government safety net problems as the cause of the nations social ills, but those programs were implemented because of those ills. While you point to the Great Society as the reason for poverty and the shrinking middle class, the loss of union power in the private sector correlates even better with the decline of the middle class. Unions (for all their faults, and like any person-run organization, they have plenty of them) helped distribute wealth to the working class, rather than to the ownership class. It worked for much of the post-war period, but in the 1970s union power started to decline. Unions have always been in the cross hairs of the ownership class because they do just that, they distribute wealth down to the workers, which, in turn, protects the middle class. One unfortunate thing that Badge--or one of you, anyway--hinted at above was the clash between the civil rights movement and the private labor unions. Labor unions exist to force management to the bargaining table over wages/benefits and to protect jobs. However, when the civil rights movement gained momentum, that created a conflict between protecting jobs and giving black people (primarily) a seat at the union bargaining table. The ownership class, which has predominantly been Republican, has been more than happy to exploit that schism to keep working class laborers struggling against the civil rights movement, and vice versa. However, we're now at a point in our country's history that private labor unions have lost much of their power, but they are no longer the bastion of whiteness that they were in the 1950s. If private labor were to regain strength today, the clash over job protection and race has largely vanished, so a rising labor movement would raise all working class labor, not just white (or black, latino, etc.) labor.

In the short term, stronger private labor unions might put a dent in my 401K, but in the long term, they would make for a stronger middle class, less poverty, a rising standard of living, and a more stable, better country.

Alright--time for me to (mostly) read other threads.


1.) Who on this site is blaming the poor?

2.) I no of no social program, implemented by the gov't, that has achieved any of the stated goals, stayed within budget and wasn't corrupted from either the inside, outside or a combination of both. Gov't needs to stick to their charter, i.e. the Constitution.

3.) I see people from both sides of the aisle fanning flames. To say it is one sided is willful ignorance.

4.) I'm with Badge on this one for the most part. Public sector unions are immoral and should be eliminated as those paying the bill are not at the table. As to private sector unions, they were responsible for creating the working environment that we have today (8 hour day, 5 day work week, child labor laws, etc.). I believe that there may be pockets where they are still of use, but I cannot point to any specifically. For the most part, my opinion is that they are past their prime and exist to protect the lazy. Again, I could be wrong and there may be some that are actually doing some good, but I have not seen them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 31, 2020, 02:00:13 PM
What private sector unions do is provide bargaining power to the laborer. A single laborer has little hope of convincing the business owner to increase his or her wages, but the threat of striking, e.g., not having a labor force, provides bargaining power to increase wages/benefits. That bargaining power means that instead of putting all profits into corporate coffers (the shareholders, whomever they may be), the labor force shares in corporate profit as well.

As long as there is capital, unions will have a place in distributing it. The benevolent publicly held corporation is hard to find. In fact, based on U.S. corporate law, it's essentially illegal (as a corporate board's fiduciary duty is to its shareholders).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 31, 2020, 02:07:54 PM
Bwar, I'm up on all of that and generally agree with the concept. But I think the details are pretty hard to work out. What we're saying when we say end the war on drugs is ending the police intervention in the drug trade? Presumably, like with alcohol and nicotine, we would legalize, standardize, and regulate (as opposed to criminlizing) the sale of mind-altering drugs?

Is there any limit to that? Legalize and regulate all drugs? Heroin, cocaine, meth, fentanyl?

[I'm doing a terrible job of staying out of this thread...]

As Cincy suggested, take a look at Portugal's approach:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal)

Essentially drugs may still remain illegal, but the way you combat drugs is insanely different than what we do here today. 

I do think marijuana should just be legalized and regulated effectively the same way we regulate alcohol.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 31, 2020, 02:12:34 PM
A single laborer can always leave if not treated properly and work elsewhere for a better wage

there are no unions in my industry, many industries never think about having a union
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 31, 2020, 02:31:26 PM
What private sector unions do is provide bargaining power to the laborer. A single laborer has little hope of convincing the business owner to increase his or her wages, but the threat of striking, e.g., not having a labor force, provides bargaining power to increase wages/benefits. That bargaining power means that instead of putting all profits into corporate coffers (the shareholders, whomever they may be), the labor force shares in corporate profit as well.

As long as there is capital, unions will have a place in distributing it. The benevolent publicly held corporation is hard to find. In fact, based on U.S. corporate law, it's essentially illegal (as a corporate board's fiduciary duty is to its shareholders).
The company I work for has several plants across the US and around the world. There were a couple that decided to unionize a few years back. Once they did, our customers began either pulling their work or making demands that their work not go through those plants. Needless to say, those plants are no longer around. The work left and the company moved their assets to other plants where they did not have to deal with a union.

Right or wrong, companies don't need the threat of work stoppages in an industry where often the products are time sensitive. Those workers probably had a pretty good contract that gave them additional benefits or more money. However, none of that matters now is all that they have left is that contract. Their jobs are gone. As Fearless said, they can go to work for other employers and compete there for a better wage. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 31, 2020, 02:38:45 PM
in the meat packing industry, there are union plants and non-union plants

the non-union plants get paid better and produce better
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on August 31, 2020, 03:02:09 PM
Bwar, I'm up on all of that and generally agree with the concept. But I think the details are pretty hard to work out. What we're saying when we say end the war on drugs is ending the police intervention in the drug trade? Presumably, like with alcohol and nicotine, we would legalize, standardize, and regulate (as opposed to criminlizing) the sale of mind-altering drugs?

Is there any limit to that? Legalize and regulate all drugs? Heroin, cocaine, meth, fentanyl?

[I'm doing a terrible job of staying out of this thread...]

All drugs legalized, treat them like alcohol. Take the profit out of the black market and you remove the criminal element, killing over turf, etc. Keep people out of jail who have hurt nobody but themselves.

You would think we would have learned from the prohibition era. No one is being killed while bootlegging liquor or fighting over who has what territory to sell it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 31, 2020, 03:27:43 PM
It's a wonder that in a largely non-union world, the wage gap is growing, and real wages for the working class are dropping, all while corporate profits continue to rise. It's almost as if the property owners don't share more than they have to with their work force.

But sure, the individual has all the power here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 31, 2020, 03:29:35 PM
the individual seems to have as much power as the corrupt union

as stated, union shops don't usually get paid more than non-union shops
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 31, 2020, 03:32:42 PM
gonna be some fun when the marijuana dispensaries are told they will now be selling heroin, crack, and meth

might as well put the liquor store and the pawn shop next door
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 31, 2020, 03:54:55 PM
the individual seems to have as much power as the corrupt union

as stated, union shops don't usually get paid more than non-union shops
The government's Bureau of Labor Statistics disagrees with you.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2013/04/art2full.pdf
 (https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2013/04/art2full.pdf)
Even these guys, who "advance[] the principles of free market and limited governance" agree that union workers are paid more, though they think not by as much as pro-union people would have you believe. https://www.mackinac.org/22643 (https://www.mackinac.org/22643)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 31, 2020, 04:01:03 PM
The government's Bureau of Labor Statistics disagrees with you.
 (https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2013/04/art2full.pdf)
that's OK, I can agree to disagree

besides, most union workers are working for the government
perhaps the government is the issue here?

perhaps the city and the county and the state should work toward being a better employer 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2020, 04:02:39 PM
Bwar, I'm up on all of that and generally agree with the concept. But I think the details are pretty hard to work out. What we're saying when we say end the war on drugs is ending the police intervention in the drug trade? Presumably, like with alcohol and nicotine, we would legalize, standardize, and regulate (as opposed to criminlizing) the sale of mind-altering drugs?

Is there any limit to that? Legalize and regulate all drugs? Heroin, cocaine, meth, fentanyl?

[I'm doing a terrible job of staying out of this thread...]


I've wondered about this, I would legalize them all.  You could go to clinics and get your drug du jour for free, or at low cost to undercut the black market.  If you made some profit, it would go to drug prevention and rehab.  Fentanyl, I'd say no, because it is so dangerous, and folks can get their high on normal opiods without, it's used to "cut" opiods in effect.  The idea is to cut the legs out of the profit motive for gangs, what else would they do these days?

And yes, some people would OD and some would live horrible lives.  Which is no change.  Each person could get a card with their name and photo and they could access whatever drugs they wanted in dosed amounts.  The drugs would be "pure", no fentanyl, nothing used to cut stuff to make it more powerful and lethal.  You want cocaine?  Here ya go.  In Philadelphia, it's worth fifty bucks.

No gangs now, or at least smaller less powerful gangs.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 31, 2020, 04:05:06 PM
Fearless, your opinions are getting in the way of you paying attention to the facts.

A much higher percentage of government workers is unionized than in the private sector, but the private sector is much, much bigger than the public sector, and as a result there are more private sector union members than public sector ones.

The BLS article specifically addresses private union vs. non-union jobs.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinions, but don't confuse them with facts.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2020, 04:06:27 PM
Fearless, your opinions are getting in the way of you paying attention to the facts.
I like my opinions to bear little relationship to facts.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2020, 04:09:07 PM
We went out to lunch today to a tapas place called Bulla, which is pretty good, and they have a nice patio.  They served the wife, and not me, and still not me, and still not me.  The wife went inside to find a manager.  She came out and explained they got hit with a health inspection just as my order went in and they could not do anything.  Now, it was 2 PM, so they weren't crowded.  She comped the whole meal and got my order to go plus two more free beers.

And they passed the inspection to boot.

We left $20 for the server, not his fault, though he should have explained the deal.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 31, 2020, 04:09:12 PM
the individual seems to have as much power as the corrupt union

as stated, union shops don't usually get paid more than non-union shops
Fearless there is more corruption at the top than anywhere.Follow the moneyWhy the F*** do Corporate cocks hire Lobbyists to push thru more unfair practices,regulations,taxes or their huge loop holes and a slew of other benefits.Look at the Golden parachutes the freaks from the gated communities are raking in,some had been massive failures and walked away richer than they ever were.Look at Roger Goodell F****** making 49 million(a year) for a F****** game and demanding health care for his whole family. they already gave him eneough to do that.Then tax my beer your stoogies and we can hardly go to the games.Just one pathetic example.Hell during the 2008 housing crises AIG collapsed.Washington bails them out.You'd think they'd be humble,contrite reflective NO!!!The BBC followed their President,Chairmen of the Board and Directors over to some Swiss/Austrian Chalet in the ALPS and filmed as the treated themselves for that smashing performance  as they celebrated.As far as I'm concerned anyone one of the afore mentioned should be taken to Alcatrez and eviscerated with a wooden spoon then fed to the sharks
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 31, 2020, 04:13:10 PM
you're probably right

in my area of the country there are fewer unions in the private sector, but those few unions may have as many or more employees as government unions.

my opinions come from my experiences, of course

my Father worked for a government (county) union for 36 years

I was in the meat packing industry too long, I worked in union plants and non-union plants - big difference
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 31, 2020, 04:13:32 PM
I like my opinions to bear little relationship to facts.
Think Orange Gator Guy hacked CD's account
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on August 31, 2020, 04:14:32 PM
I've wondered about this, I would legalize them all.  You could go to clinics and get your drug du jour for free, or at low cost to undercut the black market.  If you made some profit, it would go to drug prevention and rehab.  Fentanyl, I'd say no, because it is so dangerous, and folks can get their high on normal opiods without, it's used to "cut" opiods in effect.  The idea is to cut the legs out of the profit motive for gangs, what else would they do these days?

And yes, some people would OD and some would live horrible lives.  Which is no change.  Each person could get a card with their name and photo and they could access whatever drugs they wanted in dosed amounts.  The drugs would be "pure", no fentanyl, nothing used to cut stuff to make it more powerful and lethal.  You want cocaine?  Here ya go.  In Philadelphia, it's worth fifty bucks.

No gangs now, or at least smaller less powerful gangs.


I support legalization in general.  It does get dicey when you get into the really hard and dangerous stuff.

But for this statement, I'll say, it's wishful thinking. Gangs will always peddle something, whatever is contraband or scarce and easily taken by force.

A few years back there was a bad lime crop in Mexico, and the prices of limes increased dramatically. Instead of 5/$1 or 10/$1, they were more like $1 each.  At that price point, given the scarcity, it didn't take long for the cartels to completely take over the trade.  They brutalized the farmers that wouldn't go along with them, and they warred among each other for the product, to sell into the USA.

There will always be gangs, as long as there is poverty.  But I do think that legalization of most drugs, would make SOME impact to their strength and power.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2020, 04:15:07 PM
The folks "down south" in that area 51 site do not like me, at all.  They claim I post too much, at least that's one complaint, there are many.

It's quite "entertaining".
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 31, 2020, 04:18:44 PM
But for this statement, I'll say, it's wishful thinking. Gangs will always peddle something, whatever is contraband or scarce and easily taken by force.

A few years back there was a bad lime crop in Mexico, and the prices of limes increased dramatically. Instead of 5/$1 or 10/$1, they were more like $1 each.  At that price point, given the scarcity, it didn't take long for the cartels to completely take over the trade.  They brutalized the farmers that wouldn't go along with them, and they warred among each other for the product, to sell into the USA.

There will always be gangs, as long as there is poverty.  But I do think that legalization of most drugs, would make SOME impact to their strength and power.
Heck, we still have a mafia in this country. Nobody is claiming you'll completely end gangs. But I think the overall result will be an improvement.

The folks "down south" in that area 51 site do not like me, at all.  They claim I post too much, at least that's one complaint, there are many.

It's quite "entertaining".
Didn't you say you don't like when your arguments bear resemblance to facts? Seems like you'd fit in well "down south"...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 31, 2020, 04:24:40 PM
The folks "down south" in that area 51 site do not like me, at all.  They claim I post too much, at least that's one complaint, there are many.

It's quite "entertaining".
this is my feeling on all the the sites I've posted

but, I've usually been surrounded by Texans

but, it is entertaining as all get out
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 31, 2020, 04:27:54 PM
I was in the meat packing industry too long, I worked in union plants and non-union plants - big difference
Not defending any improper benefits left or right.For instance GWII after he got in - hired some contractors to decipher radio/phone/internet traffic of  terrorist groups.After the US Treasury ponied up 1.8 Billion to these astute Patriots the program was scuttled.This was on 60 Minutes before the Pirates bought them out.No nothing was done to any of the parties and those funds weren't returned.Yet i got fined 600.00 for one 35 dollar share that I didn't even know I received in some in a company buy out.Couldn't fight it either - i was livid
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 31, 2020, 04:29:46 PM
Fearless there is more corruption at the top than anywhere.
big business and Government
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 31, 2020, 04:36:26 PM


(https://i.imgur.com/AkPv5GJ.jpg)




Pretty sure that is where Lynyrd Skynrd recorded "One more from the Road" in '76.Right there with the ABB at the Fillmore East
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 31, 2020, 05:52:22 PM
At a federal Level I have to believe the polls are almost rigged by big money special interests left & right.C'mon Joe Biden,Donald Trump,Nancy Pelosi how'd any of these stewed newts get nominated much less elected?I would invite none of them to dinner nor would I accept an invitation from them.As 94 says - I weep for the future
I don't get your point, Nubbz.
Nancy Pelosi got continually re-nominated and continually re-elected because she's who the idiot folks in her home district keep voting for.  Nothing to do with rigged polls at the federal or any other level.
Trump and Biden--they got the votes.
If the polls are horribly rigged, then they would be exposed on election day.  Unless you think all the elections are rigged by big money too, in which case you might as well live in a cave or move to New Zealand.  If you're young enough, which I doubt.
Or is your post in jest?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 31, 2020, 05:56:20 PM
Pelosi - has been in the house since 1987
Biden - been in the senate since 1973

weep for the past while you're weeping
Actually, Biden hasn't been in the Senate since 2009.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2020, 05:59:41 PM
I got to know one of the Marines with my son pretty well back in the day.  He finished OSU law school and was a really bright, articulate kind of guy, honest as the day is long, combat veteran.  He was interested in getting into politics, maybe working up to the national level someday.  He related to me how he attended some political meetings, Republican party meetings, and it became apparent to him that he basically had no chance.

It wasn't so much Big Money, though that can be a factor of course, as it was how MANY folks were clamoring for the same thing, and his qualities as a candidate were not really valued.  He would have been an outstanding candidate and servant of the people, truly.  That is generally not the sort "we" select these days (sfbadger's wife is an exception).

Another friend of mine in Cincy was the same, she ran for mayor, had been on town council.  Now, she was more liberal than Bernie, but whatever, she was pretty smart and articulate.  It so happened the former President of the Ohio Senate had retired and ran for mayor that same election.  He won, he had a ton of relatives living in the same small town.  He seemed like a decent enough fellow to me.  He helped get a stretch of I-75 dedicated to my son's memory.  And then we moved.

Anyway, I think in the main, the qualified, honest, articulate, smart individuals get swamped out.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2020, 06:00:26 PM
Actually, Biden hasn't been in the Senate since 2009.
He was President of the Senate 2009-2017.  So he probably was occasionally IN the Senate ....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 31, 2020, 06:02:49 PM
I don't think most of us would eliminate the social safety net completely.  Maybe some would.  I would not.  The War on Poverty actually did reduce poverty initially, there was a fairly quick drop in measured poverty, and then it has lingered with little variation since.

I'm surprised there isn't more discussion about how to implement better ideas, but I think quite a few of our issues are kept alive by both political parties to create "energy" and dissension.
Actually, the early dip was the continuation of a downward trend in poverty since the early 1950s.  The downward trend stopped in 1967 and it has just bumped along between 11 and 14 percent ever since.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2020, 06:07:37 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/kU8wQu8.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 31, 2020, 06:37:25 PM
Now Biden is lying that Trump is going to defund social security

The dems are in trouble and they know it


they dont even believe the polls
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2020, 06:59:00 PM
Now Biden is lying that Trump is going to defund social security
I tend to think a politician being deceptive (lying) is not really news ....

What specifically did Biden say?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 31, 2020, 07:01:20 PM
I don't get your point, Nubbz.
Nancy Pelosi got continually re-nominated and continually re-elected because she's who the idiot folks in her home district keep voting for.  Nothing to do with rigged polls at the federal or any other level.
Trump and Biden--they got the votes.
If the polls are horribly rigged, then they would be exposed on election day.  Unless you think all the elections are rigged by big money too, in which case you might as well live in a cave or move to New Zealand.  If you're young enough, which I doubt.
Or is your post in jest?
my point is how any of them got there in the 1st place.In a nation of 330 million we can do better than that.And elections can get rigged,but thanx for your opinion
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on August 31, 2020, 07:03:20 PM
...
Anyway, I think in the main, the qualified, honest, articulate, smart individuals get swamped out.
My family is still in the early stages of this, but there are a few things I've observed. (1) Name recognition matters; (2) ability to fundraise matters (and many people determine whether someone is worth supporting based on whether they are capable fundraisers); (3) convincing taste makers to support you matters a lot (and this includes the local interest groups). 

Some other things that are useful:
(A) independent wealth. There's a reason a lot of independently wealthy people are involved in politics: you need the time to dedicate to it without making any money, and it's sure useful to be able to kick in a bunch of your own money to jump start any campaign. I probably list this one first because we don't have it. We're comfortable, but not like a lot of the people who get into higher politics. But even from where we sit, SFIrish wouldn't be able to do what she's doing if I couldn't pay our bills on my salary.
(B) Articulate/Charismatic: people like voting for people who are "likable," which really means charismatic.
(C) Hard public policy work: numbers 1 and 3, above, often come about as a result of digging into public policy work in your locale. Working in government, including in the policy realm, is different from talking about politics. They are related, but plenty of people are capable of talking policy who aren't capable of making it.
(D) Attractive.
(E) Capable of dealing with a great deal of criticism and anger without letting it get to you. This is a part of public policy work that most people probably aren't accustomed to. Virtually any decision (from minimum wage, marijuana dispensaries, and property rights on the one hand, to tree removal and barking dogs on the other) generates ill will and animosity. And it shouldn't come as a surprise that more people reach out to their elected officials when they are angry than when they aren't. I think the ratio is probably about 100-1. 

Our experience so far is that the local interest groups care about your record more than your rhetoric, and that there are plenty of people who work in those groups who value integrity more than following their directions on everything (though you will rarely get support from a group that you basically disagree with; shocking, I know).

And luck matters, too.


I suspect a great many more of the people in public office are qualified, honest, articulate, and smart--as well as financially secure, attractive, and lucky--than many people think. But there are some awfully crooked ones (as there are in any center of power), and they sure give a bad rap to the rest.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 31, 2020, 07:05:28 PM
I tend to think a politician being deceptive (lying) is not really news ....

What specifically did Biden say?
https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/aug/14/ad-watch-biden-exaggerates-trumps-social-security-/ (https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/aug/14/ad-watch-biden-exaggerates-trumps-social-security-/)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2020, 07:07:13 PM
I got to know Mike DeWine and our Congressman some, to the point of writing some letters back and forth.  DeWine write a recco for my kid to get into law school.

I think they are folks trying to do the best the can.  I think there are many more, but the leadership in Congress is somehow not impressive, to me, at all.  They get the headlines.  I won't even comment on the two Presidential candidates ...

NPR had a nice thing circa 2008 with two freshmen congressmen from each party, their thoughts as they entered Congress, over a year.  It was quite interesting.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 31, 2020, 07:14:01 PM
So to things in this popped out to me and I kinda wanted to delve into them.

1. "NPR featuring authors who write books literally titled, In Defense of Looting (https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2020/08/27/906642178/one-authors-argument-in-defense-of-looting)."
I found this
notable because media outlets for a long time ran all sorts of weird, extreme stuff on both sides. Like, it was just seen as part of the landscape that an outlet might interview a controversial figure or profile one or accept a piece of writing that just represented opinion (letters to the editor). But at some point, it became very, very important to say, "how dare this outlet give that person attention!" I think it has to do with the internet, which makes media more permanent. I couldn't share what I heard on the radio or saw on TV news. And the newspaper got replaced by a new one every day. And maybe I'd take offense in the moment, but it wouldn't become quite as much of a thing. And if NPR had a person on who had an unnuanced take on the role of modern militia movements and why they're super great, I think that would be fine (I'm also here for nuanced takes on militias. I think there's interesting discussion about looting, how it tacks alongside protest and how people don't notice protest without disruption, but am not really here for many defenses of it).

2. “Almost everyone I know here in LA is buying a gun, stocking up on water and wondering what the aftermath of the election results will look like. If Trump wins, I reckon America will burn. If Trump loses, America will burn. Either way, I’m preparing for America to burn.”
This strikes me as a traditional sort of American pessimism. The country was going to hell in the 60s, and 70s and 80s, and parts of the 2000s. Predicting the worst is as American as apple pie. And I know it goes against all that, but I'm an optimist. I've lived in places where folks have a lot of guns for nearly a decade. And folks are still folks. They want to go to school, work, meet friends, see their kids are doing stuff they like. Perhaps the fringes are more fringy, and those fringes are certianly more highlighted and better organized, but most folks go along and get along despite all this. (I also find it funny because I live in a county that's highly on one side of the political spectrum next door to one on the extreme other. And both work off one another, functioning symbiotically even in our charged times)

Bonus: The idea that "Democrats are walking into a trap." This is one of those dire comments that doesn't really matter right now. People vote in November. Things will be different then. Now maybe this is the trap, Democrats climbing atop a high horse too high. But we've had all sorts of dire warnings before all sorts of elections, and it's mostly hard to tell if these are real things or just noise. It also led me to remember that NAFTA was mostly the work of presidents from 1980-1992, with a member of the opposite party carrying it over the finish line. First this is funny because just imagine that kind of transition process. But also, imagine telling one of those two presidents that a member of their party would one day use their vision as a cudgel to crush a member of the opposite party. The future is aways weird, and the trap isn't usually that out in the open.
That seems like a review of only half of the article.  The other half, where he criticizes the Trump Party and its acolytes, and praises the peaceful protests in the aftermath of the George Floyd, you seem to have skipped!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 31, 2020, 07:27:35 PM
The dems must have gotten some very bad feedback from internal polling on the domestic violence 

now they not only denounce the violence but guess what its all Trumps fault

silly dems
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 31, 2020, 07:31:12 PM
The dems must have gotten some very bad feedback from internal polling on the domestic violence

now they not only denounce the violence but guess what its all Trumps fault

silly dems
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Dem leaders and their allies in the media cheered on the violent left every step of the way...<a href="https://t.co/goInUrw6P8">pic.twitter.com/goInUrw6P8</a></p>&mdash; Donald Trump Jr. (@DonaldJTrumpJr) <a href="https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1300397571538640901?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 31, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

you can’t make this shit up. 


https://www.dailywire.com/news/watch-leftists-allegedly-assault-harass-elderly-people-leaving-rnc-convention

https://nypost.com/2020/08/25/blm-protesters-harass-white-diners-for-not-raising-fists-in-dc/
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 31, 2020, 07:33:31 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Dem leaders and their allies in the media cheered on the violent left every step of the way...<a href="https://t.co/goInUrw6P8">pic.twitter.com/goInUrw6P8</a></p>&mdash; Donald Trump Jr. (@DonaldJTrumpJr) <a href="https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1300397571538640901?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 31, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

you can’t make this shit up. 
HB were you trying to post a source cause I cant read it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 31, 2020, 07:42:54 PM
HB were you trying to post a source cause I cant read it
I was trying to embed the tweet.  I know if it came from Fox News some people shit themselves 


https://www.foxnews.com/media/video-shows-democratic-leaders-liberal-pundits-cheering-and-condoning-violence-against-political-opponents

video.   Not narrative.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 31, 2020, 07:46:02 PM
What in your view is the very worst thing Trump is putting out there, verbiage aside?  I mean not what he says, but what he has done, or not done, or even promises to do.

I agree his verbiage is "singular".
You were responding to OAM, but I'll take a crack at it.
On policy, there's nothing he's putting out that is worse than what the Democrats will do.  Not much better, but no worse.
So it's the verbiage.  More precisely, what I think it represents.
Donald Trump doesn't give a rat's ass about anyone who is not in a position to do him some good or stroke his ego.
For him, people exist for his purposes.  If they aren't doing something for him, or as soon as their usefulness is over, their existence doesn't matter.
So the American citizens who live in blue states are dead to him.  That's why he followed the advice of his dumb-ass son-in-law to do just enough to say he was doing something to fight the pandemic.  The blue states have all the big blue urban centers where people not like him live and who won't be voting for him.  Let 'em die so that he can blame the Democrat governors and mayors.
So, instead of expressing a modicum of sympathy for the peaceful protestors, he conflates them them with rioters and looters so that they all they all became the same people to his supporters.  And his response was to smash them.  To praise every overreaction by the police.  To not condemn right-wing "militia"-types who want to "bag a few."
And, of course, he set the example that masks were unnecessary, and all his lackeys (and only lackeys get to stay in his orbit for long) in Congress and the Cabinet followed suit.  And all his slack-jawed jackanape supporters at the Tulsa rally did too.  Hardly a mask was to be seen at that rally, and no social-distancing either.  They weren't afraid!  They were tough!  They could laugh at a meme showing real Americans (like their idol, General Bonespurs) hitting Omaha Beach, while cowardly cucks wore masks and hid behind couches.  Herman Caine, whom I once supported for POTUS, did the same, and he died.  Might as well rule his death a suicide.  Does that bother Trump?  Not that anyone can tell.  Did other supporters at that rally get sick and die?  Don't ask Donny from Queens, 'cause he don't care.  What about the peaceful, mask-wearing, mostly black protesters outside?  They were, and I'll try to match his advanced rhetorical skills here, "very very bad people."
There's not much of a human being in there.  He's a full-blown narcissist at the very least, and probably a psychopath and/or sociopath as well.  He has no empathy.  He is a user.  People suffering?  Unless helping them earns him some money or praise or votes, he's not going to do squat to help them.  I'll bet he laughs his ass off at the support he gets from white evangelicals.  Then tells a joke about the two Corinthians.
He corrupts and defiles everything he touches.
That's what he's putting out that will make me vote for Biden, who on his best days was not much smarter than the village idiot, and who is at least as corrupt as the average pol.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 31, 2020, 07:47:19 PM
I was trying to embed the tweet.  I know if it came from Fox News some people shit themselves


https://www.foxnews.com/media/video-shows-democratic-leaders-liberal-pundits-cheering-and-condoning-violence-against-political-opponents

video.  Not narrative. 
No problem now

The dems are in a way saying Im going to allow my city to be burned down refuse any offer for Federal help and turn arrested rioters lose back on the street and blame it all on Trump

sorry dems but the American people just arent stupid enough to believe this
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 31, 2020, 07:50:14 PM
latest polls show Black approval for Trump at 24%

if thats true its gonna be a tough night for the dems in Nov
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 31, 2020, 07:51:07 PM
No problem now

The dems are in a way saying Im going to allow my city to be burned down refuse any offer for Federal help and turn arrested rioters lose back on the street and blame it all on Trump

sorry dems but the American people just arent stupid enough to believe this
Biden’s Staffers put up bail for protesters arrested for violence.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 31, 2020, 08:15:20 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyPo2s63DAk&fbclid=IwAR35Xb6Ei_Hzv4nHk7FxSg5d-aHFnJ5lpHEEW_ozTdVj7vV2YVkGVTw8gw8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyPo2s63DAk&fbclid=IwAR35Xb6Ei_Hzv4nHk7FxSg5d-aHFnJ5lpHEEW_ozTdVj7vV2YVkGVTw8gw8)

Organ music.
Cool!  I love organ music.
That reminds me of a place pretty far removed from Atlanta in any way you might want to consider.
In Miami ("My-am-eh," as the Indian tribe pronounces it), Oklahoma, on Route 66, where Steve Owens toted the rock for the Wardogs, there is a little palace called the Coleman Theatre.  It was built by George Coleman, a local mining capitalist.

(https://i.imgur.com/O7y9CTs.png)

Inside, there is a Louis XV interior and a 1928 Wurlitzer ("the Mighty Wurlitzer") pipe organ that plays beautifully.  It's the only one built that year that is still in its original home.

(https://i.imgur.com/XoxHLU3.png)

When I went through it early one Saturday morning, there were the other members of a history education board I was on and a couple of couples, one from New England and the other from Germany.  Both couples were touring Route 66 and just happened to hit Miami on the same morning we did.
No YouTube video that I know of, though.
Other than that theater, Miami, OK, is pretty sad.  Tribal casinos are about it for the local economy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: WhiskeyM on August 31, 2020, 08:17:45 PM
4.) I'm with Badge on this one for the most part. Public sector unions are immoral and should be eliminated as those paying the bill are not at the table. As to private sector unions, they were responsible for creating the working environment that we have today (8 hour day, 5 day work week, child labor laws, etc.). I believe that there may be pockets where they are still of use, but I cannot point to any specifically. For the most part, my opinion is that they are past their prime and exist to protect the lazy. Again, I could be wrong and there may be some that are actually doing some good, but I have not seen them.

SFBadge explained the importance of Unions and why they are needed brilliantly.  You should really hear that reasoning out.

Public sector Unions are just as important, especially the safety related Unions.  Ensuring quality service is always a priority.  In that regard, they are ensuring that your tax money is being spent toward a better quality service.

As far as calling Unions "immoral", "past their prime", and "protect the lazy", you are being told lies and exaggerations.  The people in power are feeding you those thoughts through your news sources in an attempt to gut Unions.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 31, 2020, 08:19:29 PM
loved the organ music now for a little change of pace

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol7yPawhzM0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol7yPawhzM0)
Beat me, daddy, eight to the bar!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 31, 2020, 08:31:50 PM
Beat me, daddy, eight to the bar!
Her stage name is Ladyva

Im a big fan

I think she is Swiss 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 31, 2020, 08:42:40 PM
What private sector unions do is provide bargaining power to the laborer. A single laborer has little hope of convincing the business owner to increase his or her wages, but the threat of striking, e.g., not having a labor force, provides bargaining power to increase wages/benefits. That bargaining power means that instead of putting all profits into corporate coffers (the shareholders, whomever they may be), the labor force shares in corporate profit as well.

As long as there is capital, unions will have a place in distributing it. The benevolent publicly held corporation is hard to find. In fact, based on U.S. corporate law, it's essentially illegal (as a corporate board's fiduciary duty is to its shareholders).
The federal government for a long time actively intervened to break strikes in favor of management.  We all know that worked.  The Pullman Strike and the Homestead Strike are famous examples.
That began to change during the TR administration (1901-09), but what really marked the total swing to the other side was 
the Wagner Act (NLRA).  Since then, federal intervention has generally been for the unions' benefit.
The sit-down strikes by which the UAW unionized GM are an example.  GM obtained court injunction to remove strikers from the Flint, MI, plant.  Flint police attempted to evict the strikers, but were hit with water from fire hoses and pelted with automobile parts.  Michigan Gov. Murphy and FDR refused to help the police.  Gov. Murphy sent in the National Guard, not to evict the strikers, but to protect them from the police.  The troops set up machine-gun positions with the guns facing outward.

(https://i.imgur.com/URxmGJw.jpg)

Meanwhile, the strikers were very careful with the cars being assembled in the plant.

(https://i.imgur.com/puqPsQi.jpg)

I don't like either flavor of such favoritism.  I don't like using the armed forces for political purposes, whether it's Murphy, FDR, or Trump doing it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 31, 2020, 08:44:26 PM
since Im retired and sitting around with nothing better to do I seek out what I call internet talent and no Im not talking about porn you people with dirty minds

Im going to post a couple of songs that is performed by a lady named Reina Del Cid

obviously a stage name she is a graduate of Univ of Minnesota but took up music shortly afterward

anyway I really like her

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5MZwlc23B8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzu8lWPVWpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgNBLziAtdc






Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 31, 2020, 08:46:16 PM
loved the organ music now for a little change of pace

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol7yPawhzM0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol7yPawhzM0)
And another change of pace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqtz6a8ikGg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqtz6a8ikGg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 31, 2020, 08:47:08 PM
I grew up in a union family as my dad was an electrician for local 524 out of Galveston

so I have a soft spot in my heart for unions

the only thing Id like to see is all municipal and teachers unions be abolished
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 31, 2020, 08:51:47 PM
CW shes great maybe we could get the two of them together for a jam

Incidentally do you know what the piece was that she played 


I know I just wondered if you do

its for an all expenses paid trip to Brownsville Texas
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 31, 2020, 08:54:44 PM
The government's Bureau of Labor Statistics disagrees with you.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2013/04/art2full.pdf
 (https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2013/04/art2full.pdf)
Even these guys, who "advance[] the principles of free market and limited governance" agree that union workers are paid more, though they think not by as much as pro-union people would have you believe. https://www.mackinac.org/22643 (https://www.mackinac.org/22643)
Does anyone think "quality" when they see "Proudly Made by Workers of the (Name the Union)" on a product?
I don't.  Every time I notice the little UAW sticker on my Mustang I think that Ford somehow managed to build a pretty good car despite its labor force.
I don't know if that's inherent to unions or just to American unions.  Unionized German workers seem to turn out pretty good cars, so maybe it's the latter.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 31, 2020, 09:03:12 PM
My family is still in the early stages of this, but there are a few things I've observed. (1) Name recognition matters; (2) ability to fundraise matters (and many people determine whether someone is worth supporting based on whether they are capable fundraisers); (3) convincing taste makers to support you matters a lot (and this includes the local interest groups).

Some other things that are useful:
(A) independent wealth. There's a reason a lot of independently wealthy people are involved in politics: you need the time to dedicate to it without making any money, and it's sure useful to be able to kick in a bunch of your own money to jump start any campaign. I probably list this one first because we don't have it. We're comfortable, but not like a lot of the people who get into higher politics. But even from where we sit, SFIrish wouldn't be able to do what she's doing if I couldn't pay our bills on my salary.
(B) Articulate/Charismatic: people like voting for people who are "likable," which really means charismatic.
(C) Hard public policy work: numbers 1 and 3, above, often come about as a result of digging into public policy work in your locale. Working in government, including in the policy realm, is different from talking about politics. They are related, but plenty of people are capable of talking policy who aren't capable of making it.
(D) Attractive.
(E) Capable of dealing with a great deal of criticism and anger without letting it get to you. This is a part of public policy work that most people probably aren't accustomed to. Virtually any decision (from minimum wage, marijuana dispensaries, and property rights on the one hand, to tree removal and barking dogs on the other) generates ill will and animosity. And it shouldn't come as a surprise that more people reach out to their elected officials when they are angry than when they aren't. I think the ratio is probably about 100-1.

Our experience so far is that the local interest groups care about your record more than your rhetoric, and that there are plenty of people who work in those groups who value integrity more than following their directions on everything (though you will rarely get support from a group that you basically disagree with; shocking, I know).

And luck matters, too.


I suspect a great many more of the people in public office are qualified, honest, articulate, and smart--as well as financially secure, attractive, and lucky--than many people think. But there are some awfully crooked ones (as there are in any center of power), and they sure give a bad rap to the rest.
Hmmm.  I don't see anything about the parties running the show, ramrodding candidates down the throats of an unwilling populace.
Politicians are independent operators these days.  They pick parties that are useful to them, not the other way around, like in the bad old days of smoke-filled rooms.
And the ones best able to charm, or charge up, a crowd/mob, have the best shot at winning, other factors being equal.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: WhiskeyM on August 31, 2020, 09:15:16 PM
Does anyone think "quality" when they see "Proudly Made by Workers of the (Name the Union)" on a product?
I don't.  Every time I notice the little UAW sticker on my Mustang I think that Ford somehow managed to build a pretty good car despite its labor force.
I don't know if that's inherent to unions or just to American unions.  Unionized German workers seem to turn out pretty good cars, so maybe it's the latter.

I would say a lot of that is stigma left from the height of powerful Unions, especially from the 60s, 70s, and 80s.  It's interesting, because the height of their power was really the darkest of their days, as corruption had rather strong stranglehold on a lot of them.

The key to Unions and Management is to keep the pendulum towards the middle.  When it swings too far in favor of one side, things get ugly.

That's what happened back then.  Organized crime controlled the largest and most powerful Unions.  The Unions that were in the news, and therefore became the face off all Unions.

Their handlers used tactics that consisted of unfair demand (to line their pockets), and strike if not agreed to.

So we have a situation where companies have to raise their prices above what should normally be expected to compensate the organized crime aspect of otherwise well intentioned Unions.

Regular customers are now paying high prices for a product that can't compete in the upper end side of the market.

So we label it as junk.

 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 31, 2020, 09:16:20 PM
SFBadge explained the importance of Unions and why they are needed brilliantly.  You should really hear that reasoning out.

Public sector Unions are just as important, especially the safety related Unions.  Ensuring quality service is always a priority.  In that regard, they are ensuring that your tax money is being spent toward a better quality service.

As far as calling Unions "immoral", "past their prime", and "protect the lazy", you are being told lies and exaggerations.  The people in power are feeding you those thoughts through your news sources in an attempt to gut Unions.
As someone who has worked alongside public-sector union members (teachers) for the last 21 years, I can't agree with your second paragraph.  Quality service may be a priority, but it's a low one.  The #1 priority is to advance the pay, benefits, and working conditions of the members.  Next is to defend the members against any attempt by the school system to discipline or fire them.  And I can attest that school systems never even attempt such actions unless the performance or behavior has been really bad.  Somewhere down below comes the delivery of a quality product.  The union isn't against quality teaching, but it doesn't give it a high priority either.
And I've seen analyses from both ends of the political spectrum concluding that police unions are a major obstacle to any meaningful police reform.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 31, 2020, 09:19:52 PM
CW shes great maybe we could get the two of them together for a jam

Incidentally do you know what the piece was that she played


I know I just wondered if you do

its for an all expenses paid trip to Brownsville Texas
I don't know.  It's an encore to Lizst's Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2.
Her name is Khatia Buniatishvili, BTW.
Do I at least get a discount ticket to visit Matamoros?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 31, 2020, 09:21:42 PM
I would say a lot of that is stigma left from the height of powerful Unions, especially from the 60s, 70s, and 80s.  It's interesting, because the height of their power was really the darkest of their days, as corruption had rather strong stranglehold on a lot of them.

The key to Unions and Management is to keep the pendulum towards the middle.  When it swings too far in favor of one side, things get ugly.

That's what happened back then.  Organized crime controlled the largest and most powerful Unions.  The Unions that were in the news, and therefore became the face off all Unions.

Their handlers used tactics that consisted of unfair demand (to line their pockets), and strike if not agreed to.

So we have a situation where companies have to raise their prices above what should normally be expected to compensate the organized crime aspect of otherwise well intentioned Unions.

Regular customers are now paying high prices for a product that can't compete in the upper end side of the market.

So we label it as junk.
I agree with most of that.
I wouldn't say "junk."  Just overpriced for what you get.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 31, 2020, 09:31:43 PM
I don't know.  It's an encore to Lizst's Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2.
Her name is Khatia Buniatishvili, BTW.
Do I at least get a discount ticket to visit Matamoros?
well actually that was Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2

so you get partial credit
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 31, 2020, 09:33:40 PM
I grew up in a union family as my dad was an electrician for local 524 out of Galveston

so I have a soft spot in my heart for unions

the only thing Id like to see is all municipal and teachers unions be abolished
electrician and plumbing unions seem to have a better reputation
my Father staunchly supported his union, but I didn't think it was worth what he paid for
he admitted that the union was more needed and worked harder for his cause back in the 60's than it did in the 90's
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on August 31, 2020, 09:44:03 PM
I've got a nephew who's a unionized electrician.  Seems to be working for him.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 31, 2020, 09:49:17 PM
I've got a nephew who's a unionized electrician.  Seems to be working for him.
It put food on our table
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 31, 2020, 10:10:03 PM
(https://scontent.fdsm1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/103325009_3713280505365645_6506205542702516163_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=DzBvBd7y_lIAX-ZSZqW&_nc_ht=scontent.fdsm1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=3f862e8253b5e5313f377c6fed7fb04f&oe=5F7329E1)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 31, 2020, 10:22:02 PM
Hmmm.  I don't see anything about the parties running the show, ramrodding candidates down the throats of an unwilling populace.
Very well put,see the fix is in not too much of a stretch you just phrased it differently - you get a Yuengling
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 31, 2020, 10:25:40 PM
[img width=525.998 height=585.998 alt=Image may contain: 1 person, closeup, text that says 'I know being a cop is hard. I know that shit's dangerous. know it is, okay? But some jobs can' have bad apples. Some jobs, everybody gotta be good. Like... pilots. Ya know, S Airlines can'tb be like,]https://scontent.fdsm1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/103325009_3713280505365645_6506205542702516163_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=DzBvBd7y_lIAX-ZSZqW&_nc_ht=scontent.fdsm1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=3f862e8253b5e5313f377c6fed7fb04f&oe=5F7329E1[/img]
Its nice to know that planes never crash in the mountains

Pilots never make a mistake
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on August 31, 2020, 10:27:20 PM
take it up with Mr. Rock
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 31, 2020, 10:41:03 PM
take it up with Mr. Rock
Ive got a call into his agent
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2020, 11:06:44 PM
Flight into terrain.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on August 31, 2020, 11:11:01 PM
Trans Debris Airlines
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 31, 2020, 11:27:35 PM
I grew up in a union family as my dad was an electrician for local 524 out of Galveston

so I have a soft spot in my heart for unions

the only thing Id like to see is all municipal and teachers unions be abolished
LMFAO
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on August 31, 2020, 11:51:23 PM
LMFAO
I have a reason

the reason is that the governmental party who negotiates with the union has no skin in the game like a private company officer would have

its not their money they are negotiating with its the taxpayers therefore theres not a lot incentive to strike a fair deal

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 01, 2020, 01:48:08 AM
Be sure and vote ya here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUEqh07E4dY
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 01, 2020, 07:13:53 AM
It's a wonder that in a largely non-union world, the wage gap is growing, and real wages for the working class are dropping, all while corporate profits continue to rise. It's almost as if the property owners don't share more than they have to with their work force.

But sure, the individual has all the power here.
The wage gap is irrelevant and nothing but a left wing talking point. What does it matter if those at the top are making money. The question should be, are wages at the other end going up as well? 

Middle class wages have been going up steadily the last 3 years, but they will NEVER catch the wages at the upper end nor should they in a free market. If you want those wages, go invent the next operating system and successfully market it. 

Yes, the individual has the power. They can work hard to be successful or they can chose the path of least resistance. That is what living in a free country allows. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 01, 2020, 07:17:27 AM
I've wondered about this, I would legalize them all.  You could go to clinics and get your drug du jour for free, or at low cost to undercut the black market.  If you made some profit, it would go to drug prevention and rehab.  Fentanyl, I'd say no, because it is so dangerous, and folks can get their high on normal opiods without, it's used to "cut" opiods in effect.  The idea is to cut the legs out of the profit motive for gangs, what else would they do these days?

And yes, some people would OD and some would live horrible lives.  Which is no change.  Each person could get a card with their name and photo and they could access whatever drugs they wanted in dosed amounts.  The drugs would be "pure", no fentanyl, nothing used to cut stuff to make it more powerful and lethal.  You want cocaine?  Here ya go.  In Philadelphia, it's worth fifty bucks.

No gangs now, or at least smaller less powerful gangs.


I would be fine with that as long as we stipulated that once you go down that path, you are on your own. Don't come and beg for government assistance because you can't feed yourself or put a roof over your head. Also, anyone wishing to go down that path should be sterilized as to not bring children into their upcoming hell. Children should never have to live through such an ordeal. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 01, 2020, 07:21:05 AM
Fearless, your opinions are getting in the way of you paying attention to the facts.

A much higher percentage of government workers is unionized than in the private sector, but the private sector is much, much bigger than the public sector, and as a result there are more private sector union members than public sector ones.

The BLS article specifically addresses private union vs. non-union jobs.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinions, but don't confuse them with facts.
I agree that wages for union workers are generally higher than in non union shops. However, that comes at a price. The level of union shops is and has been decreasing outside of government unions, for years. The reasons are quite apparent. Companies figured out that they could move those jobs outside of the country and have them done without paying the high wages and benefits required by the unions. 

So while working in a union shop may pay off now, it is also just a matter of time until your job is shipped to a factory outside of the country. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 01, 2020, 07:38:35 AM
SFBadge explained the importance of Unions and why they are needed brilliantly.  You should really hear that reasoning out.

Public sector Unions are just as important, especially the safety related Unions.  Ensuring quality service is always a priority.  In that regard, they are ensuring that your tax money is being spent toward a better quality service.

As far as calling Unions "immoral", "past their prime", and "protect the lazy", you are being told lies and exaggerations.  The people in power are feeding you those thoughts through your news sources in an attempt to gut Unions.
Nobody in power is feeding me anything. What I know about unions, I have learned for myself. I agree that unions were essential and getting many of the labor laws passed that we enjoy today. I believe I acknowledged that in a previous post. 

However, now that those laws are in place, the needs for the unions have pretty much been diminished. 

To the point of "ensuring that your tax money is being spent toward a better quality service", I don't buy that argument at all. Unions do nothing that does not benefit the union, period. If there is any relation to providing a better service, it is pure coincidence. The unions exist to exist. They bring nothing to the table in regards to process improvement or quality of service. All they do is work to inflate the work force to increase their dues. Nothing more.

I can tell stories for days about union actions that were done with a member of my family involved in one way or another. From protecting alcoholic workers ON THE JOB, to making such ridiculous rules that prevented people from driving their own vehicles on a job site simply to ensure that a teamster member could sit and wait for someone to show up to drive their truck 50 feet. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2020, 07:59:37 AM
A lot of manufacturing shifted to RTW states because of unions obviously.  I never quite understood how any state can not be RTW.  Government has no role in this in my view.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 01, 2020, 08:03:47 AM
I agree with most of that.
I wouldn't say "junk."  Just overpriced for what you get.
No doubt.

GM vs. Germany is not a good contest for GM.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 01, 2020, 08:29:15 AM
the only thing Id like to see is all municipal and teachers unions be abolished

LMFAO

Case in point

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2020, 08:42:47 AM
When my son was to start HS, the teachers went on strike about a week before school was to start.  They marched around outside carrying signs.  I was quite concerned about it.  I knew one teacher and asked her if they would start school on time and she told me:

"Don't worry, this is a game we play every time there is a contract coming up.  We "go on strike" to pretend and the school board knows this is the case.  They'll have it resolved before school starts."

And they did.

That school district had the highest paid teachers in the state and were spending over $15 K a year per K-12 student.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 01, 2020, 09:19:37 AM
Does anyone think "quality" when they see "Proudly Made by Workers of the (Name the Union)" on a product?
I don't.  Every time I notice the little UAW sticker on my Mustang I think that Ford somehow managed to build a pretty good car despite its labor force.
I don't know if that's inherent to unions or just to American unions.  Unionized German workers seem to turn out pretty good cars, so maybe it's the latter.
Everyone loves German cars. 

But you don't want to be holding that hot potato when the warranty expires :03:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 01, 2020, 09:23:20 AM
Everyone loves German cars.

But you don't want to be holding that hot potato when the warranty expires :03:
It's not as bad as you'd think, to be honest. Gotta find a good local mechanic who won't cut your nuts off like the dealers do. Less things break too. My E doesn't even have a rattle at 65K miles.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2020, 09:28:34 AM
I have my first physical therapy this morning, coincident with the wife's (one hour later).  I'm curious about it.  I took Naproxen just now.

My range of motion is decent, there are some things that still hurt so I don't do them.  I fear my overall conditioning has suffered a lot.  I swam a bit yesterday.

My 2005 CTS had no rattles at 85,000 miles.  It was in good shape overall at that point, interior and exterior.  It had a very good paint job.  The 2014 CTS we didn't keep that long, 42 K miles, but it also was rattle free and in very good shape.  The only issues I had with it were tire and wheel related, those 35 profile run flats were a nightmare.  And only Pirelli made run flats in that size, so I had zero options unless I wanted to go with no spare.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2020, 09:29:54 AM
It's not as bad as you'd think, to be honest. Gotta find a good local mechanic who won't cut your nuts off like the dealers do. Less things break too. My E doesn't even have a rattle at 65K miles.
But the 3rd party reliability indexes don't tend to rank German cars all that well.  I think that Germans design and engineer very good cars.  I don't think there's much evidence that they manufacture very good cars, certainly not significantly better than their competitors, and in many cases, considerably worse.  Here's an index from the UK:

https://www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer

Now, I don't know and won't comment on what this might or might not have to do with unions, which is the topic at hand.



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 01, 2020, 09:34:13 AM
I'd rather talk about cars for a while.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 01, 2020, 09:57:30 AM
But the 3rd party reliability indexes don't tend to rank German cars all that well.  I think that Germans design and engineer very good cars.  I don't think there's much evidence that they manufacture very good cars, certainly not significantly better than their competitors, and in many cases, considerably worse.  Here's an index from the UK:

https://www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer

Now, I don't know and won't comment on what this might or might not have to do with unions, which is the topic at hand.

I was just going to post that very link, utee. 

German cars are nice to lease; expensive to own.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 01, 2020, 09:59:38 AM
It's not as bad as you'd think, to be honest. Gotta find a good local mechanic who won't cut your nuts off like the dealers do. Less things break too. My E doesn't even have a rattle at 65K miles.
Neither did my Corolla at 95K.Know two mechanics who work on Lexus,Accura,Infinity,Mecedes,BMW,Audi.Their main bitch for yrs were that the German Cars were over engineered.Look at the new vehicles now,I mean really lot of people are getting priced out of getting their cars repaired
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 01, 2020, 10:03:51 AM
I was just going to post that very link, utee.

German cars are nice to lease; expensive to own.
I guess I'm not a good example. My personal experience has been just fine, owning two (paid for) M-B at the same time.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 01, 2020, 10:18:23 AM
I guess I'm not a good example. My personal experience has been just fine, owning two (paid for) M-B at the same time.
Badge, you seem like the sort that takes very good care of your belongings... I'm sure religious performance of maintenance instead of waiting until the check engine light comes on has an effect. Across the entire population of owners, however, it seems to not hold true.

But this goes back a ways... I recall probably 10 years ago seeing a consumer reports discussion where they were talking about American cars closing the reliability gap with the Japanese... While still well ahead of the European brands

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 01, 2020, 10:22:07 AM
Since we're talking cars, I just got one. Used, just short of the warranty. It was underpriced, which has me a tad worried, but it checked out with the mechanic. I'm of a people who drive cars to their death, so hopefully this one lasts well into my 40s.

I was less on top of maintenance on the last one than I should've been (regular oil changed, not paying enough attention to the longer one), granted I think it was a freak incident that did it in. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 01, 2020, 10:24:17 AM
Badge, you seem like the sort that takes very good care of your belongings... I'm sure religious performance of maintenance instead of waiting until the check engine light comes on has an effect. Across the entire population of owners, however, it seems to not hold true.

But this goes back a ways... I recall probably 10 years ago seeing a consumer reports discussion where they were talking about American cars closing the reliability gap with the Japanese... While still well ahead of the European brands.


That's me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 01, 2020, 10:40:48 AM
I'm of a people who drive cars to their death
Same-same,I could swing a new vehicle but there are plenty of 3-4 yr old cars whose owners are dumping them because they want & can afford new.9 yr old Corrolla just getting broken in.Buddy who works on afore mentioned German cars sold me a 2002 Passat his son drove back/forth from Ohio U.He'd replaced the timing belt,1/2 the front end,transmission oil & filter,water pump,power steering pump,fuel pump and a few other dated parts.Had 157,000 miles on it,perfect for bouncing around town and liability insurence.I'll play that scenerio out buying reliable beaters until I go toes up.Not only that the money i save allows me to buy more craft beers 😎
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 01, 2020, 10:42:53 AM
I had a 1995 Volvo 850 that I drove to 385K miles. Hated letting it go. It had no rattles.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 01, 2020, 11:18:06 AM
Same-same,I could swing a new vehicle but there are plenty of 3-4 yr old cars whose owners are dumping them because they want & can afford new.9 yr old Corrolla just getting broken in.Buddy who works on afore mentioned German cars sold me a 2002 Passat his son drove back/forth from Ohio U.He'd replaced the timing belt,1/2 the front end,transmission oil & filter,water pump,power steering pump,fuel pump and a few other dated parts.Had 157,000 miles on it,perfect for bouncing around town and liability insurence.I'll play that scenerio out buying reliable beaters until I go toes up.Not only that the money i save allows me to buy more craft beers 😎
That was the issue with those... Ex had a 2000 Passat and right after the warranty expired, the timing belt, water pump, thermostat, and a bunch of other components in that area had to be replaced. Wonderful fact about those cars is that to do that work, you pretty much had to take the front end off the car to get to those areas. Ended up costing me a few grand to fix that crap. A buddy with IIRC a 2001 Jetta had the same thing happen. 

I'm similar in that I want to keep cars for a LONG time. I also always buy low-mileage used rather than new. My truck was bought in 2003 and I kept that until 2012. Only reason it had to go is that the family had grown too large for a 2-door truck with seats that fold down sideways (it was a 2000 Ford Ranger). After that it was the Jeep (2009 bought in 2012), which I still own 8 years later but has now been relegated to the "fun" car. I bought the 2014 Flex in 2017, and plan to keep that at least until the eldest goes off to college around 2027. 

I don't understand the people that feel the need to replace a car every 3 years. A car is a tool, and they're designed for well beyond 3 years of usefulness. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on September 01, 2020, 11:33:29 AM
There are only two things I don't like about my Audi.  1. The primary cup holder could be about 5 mm larger and 2.  Often, if you need certain parts, gotta wait for a boat to cross the Atlantic.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on September 01, 2020, 11:43:22 AM
My family drives cars into the ground. We had a run of Buick Park Avenues that stayed to the bitter end. Those 3800 engines had a penchant for cracking intake manifolds, though.

My previous Impala, before some asshat stole it, ran great. The only major things I needed to do were a brake job and a wheel bearing, not at the same time.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 01, 2020, 11:44:13 AM
My dad worked for GM/Chevy - back when that meant something - for 32 yrs.There were no lemon laws or anything even the good vehicles were not any where near as reliable as today's are.Back then though the econmy was much better for the average guy he use to purchase every 5-6-7 yrs what was called the Company cars.These were reserved for the execs and they were gone over with a fine tooth comb basically custom.They'd drive them for 3-6 months thn sell them to used lots but they'd offer them to plant employees 1st.He'd always get on the list a year ahead of time and always had nice finds.Of course with with a wife and 5 kids this worked out great.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 01, 2020, 11:48:16 AM
Does anyone think "quality" when they see "Proudly Made by Workers of the (Name the Union)" on a product?
I don't.  Every time I notice the little UAW sticker on my Mustang I think that Ford somehow managed to build a pretty good car despite its labor force.
I don't know if that's inherent to unions or just to American unions.  Unionized German workers seem to turn out pretty good cars, so maybe it's the latter.
The building trades often have good reputations. I worked with a lot of "management" folk at Bechtel who swear by union labor (but can't get it in a lot of places they go). I think part of this is that for most of the building trades the education happens through the union. That sets them apart from a lot of unions--like the public sector ones, for example. So while all unions' first order of business is job protection--not work quality--the building trades often have work quality as essentially a prerequisite.

That's not to say there aren't all sort of typical people-run problems within the building trades, too, but quality generally isn't one of them.

As noted above, it's about balance, which unions provide. Unions shouldn't have all the power, nor should the owners. Frankly, the owners do take the bigger economic risk, so they should be entitled to additional profit from that risk. However, unfettered, the workers generally don't get a fair shake. Not everything needs to be union, either. Union labor policies benefit non-union workers, too, by applying pressure to comp/benefits decisions that impact the market.

Ok, next politics point: all you (CWS, I'm looking at you!) who think the parties shouldn't be ramming candidates down our throats should love AOC and her ilk, right? She was very much an anti-party candidate. :-) And that QANON woman from Georgia who will almost certainly be in the next Congress? [I know I'm twisting the knife here, but anti-establishment isn't always better.]

Alright, back to cars...(sorry for being *that* guy).

We had a Mercedes (bought when it was a couple of years old) that we loved, but mechanically it didn't perform all that well, and oh was it expensive to fix. Our Hondas have all been fantastic in that respect (if we would stop running them into immobile objects in parking situations, that would keep our expenses even lower).

Badge is probably like most engineers I know, who understand that all machines require care and feeding, and can be kept running with just a little of that. Growing up with engineers, I learned that we can fix most things, and fixing them is almost always cheaper than replacing. And YouTube is amazing for what it will show you how to do. I've saved thousands of dollars on dishwashers, dryers, headphones, my cars, and this week on a cat's scratching post, by taking a little time and a little YouTube. And it's one less thing in the landfill.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 01, 2020, 11:50:50 AM
I remember when you worked for Bechtel. Big ass company.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 01, 2020, 11:57:14 AM
German cars

I hear good things about Mercedes and Audi

not so good about VW and BMW

Mercedes are probably outstanding vehicles, but is it worth the price to drive a new one off the lot?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 01, 2020, 11:59:00 AM
Indeed. Fortunate that I left Bechtel when I did. The company pulled its HQ out of San Francisco because it didn't like paying the rent that the tech companies are willing to pay. Moved everybody to Virginia, where those that agreed to move live like kings and queens relative to here. I wouldn't have moved anyway, and it's always better to jump than to be pushed.

Funny thing is the move happened over the course of the last two years, and there are a lot of people working from home right now in Virginia wondering why they had to uproot their families and move to Virginia just so they could work from home.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 01, 2020, 12:13:45 PM
German cars

I hear good things about Mercedes and Audi

not so good about VW and BMW

Mercedes are probably outstanding vehicles, but is it worth the price to drive a new one off the lot?
In most of the reliability rankings they all show fairly poorly. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 01, 2020, 12:21:57 PM
relatively to GM and Ford?

or just to Toyota and Honda?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 01, 2020, 12:24:44 PM
relatively to GM and Ford?

or just to Toyota and Honda?
Yes, relative to GM and Ford.

GM and Ford likewise compare poorly to Toyota and Honda. But better than ze Germans. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 01, 2020, 12:26:28 PM
There are only two things I don't like about my Audi.  1. The primary cup holder could be about 5 mm larger and 2.  Often, if you need certain parts, gotta wait for a boat to cross the Atlantic.
how bout those $150 oil changes
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 01, 2020, 12:26:59 PM
I'm guessing the Germans compare very well with British, French, and Italian car makers
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 01, 2020, 12:41:09 PM
I'm guessing the Germans compare very well with British, French, and Italian car makers
A lot depends on where you look. Via the googles, utee and I both came across this:

https://www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer (https://www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer)

Looking at it a little more closely, they appear to be an aftermarket warranty company from the UK. 

In the reliability rankings, the French (Renault/Citroen) weren't that bad, while some of the UK and Italians didn't show very well. Jag, Bentley, Maserati were all terrible.

They also have an average cost of repair ranking...

https://www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer/AvgRep

 (https://www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer/AvgRep)Again the Germans were not very good. 

These rankings are pretty in line with what I've believed for a long time:



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 01, 2020, 12:47:17 PM
Funny thing is the move happened over the course of the last two years, and there are a lot of people working from home right now in Virginia wondering why they had to uproot their families and move to Virginia just so they could work from home.
COL is still a lot cheaper working from home in a much bigger space so there's that
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 01, 2020, 12:47:50 PM
guess I'll just keep driving my Chevys
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 01, 2020, 12:52:25 PM
Hopefully not the Silverado,someone on this board and good friends son had one.Literally in 6 months it was in the shop for like 4 of those.Chevy took it back and he got a Tahoe or sumsuch
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2020, 12:54:27 PM
guess I'll just keep driving my Chevys
I loved my Chevy Blazer that I had from 1995-2007.  Only major issue on it was a transmission rebuild at 100K, but that was with a lot of towing.  When I rebuilt it, I had them install a transmission cooler and it went almost another 100K with no issues before I traded it in for my...

Chevy Tahoe that I had from 2007-2020.  I loved it too, put 189K on it with no major issues either.

The only real POS car I've had (not counting 80s models) was my wife's 2003 Toyota.  That was one seriously unreliable piece of crap.  I hated it. I know they good good marks in reliability, but I'll never buy a Toyota again because of that car.

My wife's previous car, a 92 Honda Accord, on the other hand-- is the best car I've ever owned.  Just zero issues.  Ever.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 01, 2020, 01:02:36 PM
Hopefully not the Silverado,someone on this board and good friends son had one.Literally in 6 months it was in the shop for like 4 of those.Chevy took it back and he got a Tahoe or sumsuch
yup, had many Silverados

the 2002 2500HD with the 6.0 liter was a great truck



the current 2015 1500 with 5.3 is doing well, nearly 80K miles, not one issue in 5 years.  Well, be 5 years a week from Saturday.

(https://i.imgur.com/CIELyi3.jpg)

On my way to tailgate with Badge!

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 01, 2020, 01:03:52 PM
Usually there's beef ribs and a Bud in each hand with these shots.Those Silverados were 2019 Models - electrical/computer/tech problems
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 01, 2020, 01:11:50 PM
I can't afford anything that new

this old 98 I bought with 125K on it.  Ran it up to 175K and sold it to a lady in town, still going over 200K

(https://i.imgur.com/jBBoL31.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 01, 2020, 01:12:09 PM
how bout those $150 oil changes
8 quarts will do that to you. But, they are every 10K miles on a Benz, so there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2020, 01:12:31 PM
Was 2019 the new model year for Silverado, or is 2020 the new model year?  I know it's just recently been completely redone.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 01, 2020, 01:17:10 PM
The only real POS car I've had (not counting 80s models) was my wife's 2003 Toyota.  That was one seriously unreliable piece of crap.  I hated it. I know they good good marks in reliability, but I'll never buy a Toyota again because of that car.
IIRC, wasn't it you that had the Toyota Camry Solara, the convertible? 

I feel like I heard bad things about the Solara...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 01, 2020, 01:39:29 PM
Being the car NUT that I am and owning three now and having on as many at five at one time, I have definitely not been a brand “whore“

If you know how to shop just about all of the American and German car makers make some quality product. There is a little bit of you get what you pay for.

For years and years the American car companies could not build a machine that was as pleasurable to drive and put together as the Germans. That gap has closed and almost dissipated completely at this juncture.

This is especially true with the performance division of the American auto makers. For example the SRT division of Chrysler, the V division of Cadillac, and the same with Ford and Chevrolet.

In fact as an over the top car enthusiast- I share the widely viewed opinion that some of the American performance cars may be better value in the “bang for the buck “ measurement 

I have owned five SRT vehicles, several V versions of the Cadillac sports performance sedans, the Ford ST version, as well as several M BMWs and several Audi RS versions

The American cars are very close but substantially less expensive to purchase.

But to 847s point, I get maintenance on my Audi RS5 done every 10,000 miles and I incorporated the cost into the purchase at a very reasonable price.

I wouldn’t kick any of them out of my driveway for eating crackers LOL
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2020, 01:42:02 PM
IIRC, wasn't it you that had the Toyota Camry Solara, the convertible?

I feel like I heard bad things about the Solara...

Yup.  It was the Camry Solara convertible (they made a coupe version as well).

It was a really pretty car, and had all the bells and whistles.  But a total lemon. Its electrical issues were so bad that it literally just shut off and left my wife stranded on so many occasions I can't even count them.  We went through 4 or 5 batteries and 3 or 4 alternators, and various other electrical components.  Ultimately I suspect it was a grounding issue, but nobody was ever able to figure it out.  In fact it almost didn't start the day we traded it in for my wife's new Jeep.  Which in 4 months has already proven to be FAR more reliable than that POS Toyota.  And if your vehicle isn't even as reliable as a JEEP, well... 

My opinion is, if you're going to pride yourself on quality, then it kind of needs to apply to ALL the cars you offer, not just the family sedans or trucks.  Which brings up another thing with Toyota-- the Tacoma is rock solid, everybody knows that. It's the truck most favored by Australian bush-people, and terrorists, for being pretty much indestructible. But the Tundra, well... my next door neighbor is on his second one in about 5 years, and it's already having all sorts of problems.  And yet for some reason he's still super-loyal and is already thinking about his next Tundra.  

People do weird stuff.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 01, 2020, 01:43:19 PM
hopefully, this doesn't spark a political fire, but......................





(https://scontent.fdsm1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/104659313_10217014952183022_3631697480987710641_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=vJAOLwDZjBkAX-RrgHj&_nc_ht=scontent.fdsm1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=5235de307b18880161d3a800619ee002&oe=5F75B842)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2020, 01:49:07 PM
The wife's Caddy CTS was the 2.0 L turbo variety, and it was no slug at all, had the magnetohydrodynamic suspension that I still miss.  The CTS-V of course is a different animal, that is what I drove at COTA.  It was scary in places.

She thought it was too big for driving around here, and the wheels/tires would have been a real concern.

Having a smaller car in the city is definitely an advantage.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 01, 2020, 01:50:11 PM
In fact it almost didn't start the day we traded it in for my wife's new Jeep.  Which in 4 months has already proven to be FAR more reliable than that POS Toyota.  And if your vehicle isn't even as reliable as a JEEP, well...
LOL... I picked a Jeep despite its reliability, not because of ;-) 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 01, 2020, 01:54:48 PM
hopefully, this doesn't spark a political fire, but......................





(https://scontent.fdsm1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/104659313_10217014952183022_3631697480987710641_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=vJAOLwDZjBkAX-RrgHj&_nc_ht=scontent.fdsm1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=5235de307b18880161d3a800619ee002&oe=5F75B842)
Supposedly my steam oven is adept at making jerky. One of these years I need to give that a shot. That might save some money, though Costco is pretty good for that, too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 01, 2020, 01:55:48 PM
hopefully, this doesn't spark a political fire, but......................


(https://scontent.fdsm1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/104659313_10217014952183022_3631697480987710641_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=vJAOLwDZjBkAX-RrgHj&_nc_ht=scontent.fdsm1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=5235de307b18880161d3a800619ee002&oe=5F75B842)

If someone thinks beef jerky costs too much... Well... Make your own.

https://jesspryles.com/recipe/how-to-make-beef-jerky/ (https://jesspryles.com/recipe/how-to-make-beef-jerky/)

I think people will find, however, that the reason jerky costs so much per ounce is that you have to buy meat full of a lot of water to yield a small amount [by weight] of jerky. And beef is expensive.

It's much like dry-aged steaks. Part of the reason dry-aged steaks are so expensive is that you're using top-quality beef to start and then there is a whole process to dry and age it that takes time, knowledge, electricity [it's done refrigerated], and space. But another reason it's so expensive is that when you remove a portion of the moisture, you're just naturally going to have a higher cost per pound than the exact same cut of meat not dry-aged, because some of that weight simply evaporated but the cost of the initial product did not. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2020, 01:58:20 PM
LOL... I picked a Jeep despite its reliability, not because of ;-)
Exactly, same here!  Same thing goes for fuel mileage, ride comfort, etc.  (Although honestly my wife's Jeep rides pretty well for a vehicle on 33" MT tires).


Lots of folks in the Jeep community are hoping the new Ford Bronco can push Jeep to become a better car.  For decades they've been able to dictate the market.  But some actual competition might force them to improve reliability, improve their offered options for trim and engines, and more.  I guess we'll see.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2020, 02:05:29 PM
That is true for wine as well, interestingly, the most expensive wines use various techniques to minimize water in the grape, so you get less wine per acre.  It can be a factor of 5x.  So, to make cheap wine, you want watery grapes.  THe expensive stuff also tends to come from high priced land areas.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 01, 2020, 03:42:16 PM
I wanted to expand on something I was posting about recently about different political sides living in different realities. 

Long story short on another forum someone brought up a specific poll about what one side believed, asking "What are these people smoking"? 

Here was my response:

I keep making the argument. With our incredibly diverse and fractured media, internet, social media, etc, Republicans and Democrats no longer experience the same reality.

Note that I'm not saying that one side has a monopoly on claiming they live in reality while the other doesn't. I believe each side is now capable of constructing the reality which they want to experience, and cannot even begin to understand what the other side's reality is because it is completely and totally foreign.

Back in the day of the "big three" networks airing the nightly news, big newspapers, and essentially a limited number of ways to get information outside of those channels, it was different. I'm not going to say that everything that happened then was entirely consistent with "reality", but at least it was uniform. What I saw growing up in the Chicago suburbs not only looked mostly the same as what was being reported in Atlanta or Los Angeles, but much more importantly it looked mostly the same as what was being reported to my neighbor right next door.

Instead, right now one neighbor can be watching Fox News, listening to conservative talk radio, and reading material like OAN, while the person next door to them watches MSNBC and reads Mother Jones and Slate. They may sleep in beds ~100 ft apart from each other, yet their heads don't live in the same country.

Where this gets most glaring is that most of the people who construct their reality this way don't understand "the other side" by listening to the other side. They understand "the other side" by what their own side says about the other side.

Is it any wonder that not only do we not understand or trust those on the other side, but that we get to the point where we ask if they're on drugs because we can't even fathom--from our reality--that in their reality it seems like they're completely rational?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on September 01, 2020, 04:11:22 PM
I use to be a guy that drove my cars into the ground and then purchase a car for cash for whatever I could afford at the time, whether it was $1,000 or $5,000.

One car I own, was in an accident (not my fault) and couldn't open the drivers side door. It wasn't worth the money to fix it. Finally the clutch was going out and couldn't get it out of first. While, at the time, I did almost all of my own car repairs, I didn't do transmissions, so I coaxed it to a junk yard and traded it for a radiator for my other car. 

The last car I owned had almost 300K on it before the odometer broke. Both front windows mechanisms broke and would have cost about $300 per window just for the new mechanism, so both were propped up with boards. Up to this point, I really hadn't put much money into the car. Finally the AC went out and it was going to cost $2500 to fix. Couldn't put down the windows and no ac in Phoenix is not a good thing. At this point, I was getting tired of doing my own repairs and tired of nursing cars, so I bit the bullet and purchased a newer "Used" car and had a car payment for the first time. 

In the meantime, I met my wife and she convinced me that the thing to do was lease a car and trade it in at the end of the lease for a new lease. always have a car payment, but never have a car get to the point that you have any kind of issues that you have to deal with.  

Sold my Newer "used" car to my son and leased a car. Now in my second lease and I am pleased that I no longer have to worry about a vehicle. No longer have to worry about having the right tool to fix things. I have done similar things with home repairs, house cleaning, landscaping, etc. I no longer do any of those things, I pay so I don't have to concern myself with these type of things anymore. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 01, 2020, 04:31:25 PM
 at the time, I did almost all of my own car repairs, I didn't do transmissions, so I coaxed it to a junk yard and traded it for a radiator for my other car.
Pickers and Popular Mechanics would be proud
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 01, 2020, 05:20:00 PM
We are now back in Kenosha. I have not ventured into town to witness anything, but I'm told it's mostly peaceful, among POTUS supporters and the protesters.

Hopefully that rings true tonight. I really don't want to have to leave again.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2020, 05:28:39 PM
Good luck badge!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 01, 2020, 05:43:59 PM
Thanks. Badge just reloaded his stuff, to make sure.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2020, 05:58:50 PM
After the protests and riots kept going throughout June, I went and picked up all the rest of my "stuff" that had been at my parents' house.  I had a few here, but the majority were still at my folks because my dad has a very large safe, and I don't, and didn't want my very young kids to get into it.

Nowadays, though, they're older and so I've got everything here at the house.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 01, 2020, 06:00:48 PM
I don't have all of my stuff, because I'm on a boat with limited space. But, I've got enough to get by. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2020, 06:02:31 PM
I got my stuff out of the safe that one night.  Our security guard said he had it under control and for me not to worry.  He explained his procedures if some group tries to come in the front door.

They would have a tough time getting up to our level, and our door is pretty sturdy.  Nothing happened around us.

The governor called in the NG pretty quickly.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 01, 2020, 06:55:15 PM
I got my stuff out of the safe that one night.  Our security guard said he had it under control and for me not to worry.  He explained his procedures if some group tries to come in the front door.

They would have a tough time getting up to our level, and our door is pretty sturdy.  Nothing happened around us.

The governor called in the NG pretty quickly.
Yeah.. that didn't happen here. He lied and said he did. All 125 of them. Now there are 1000 NG, 500 US Marshalls, and 500 Military police.

POTUS saved this town, in my view.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 01, 2020, 07:05:53 PM
If someone thinks beef jerky costs too much... Well... Make your own.

https://jesspryles.com/recipe/how-to-make-beef-jerky/ (https://jesspryles.com/recipe/how-to-make-beef-jerky/)

I think people will find, however, that the reason jerky costs so much per ounce is that you have to buy meat full of a lot of water to yield a small amount [by weight] of jerky. And beef is expensive.
I like buying beef jerky and rehydrating it to see the quality of steak it came from.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 01, 2020, 07:08:54 PM
Yeah.. that didn't happen here. He lied and said he did. All 125 of them. Now there are 1000 NG, 500 US Marshalls, and 500 Military police.

POTUS saved this town, in my view.
Yep

the dems brilliant idea that burning down their own cities would hurt Trump kinda backfired
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 01, 2020, 07:24:10 PM
Yep

the dems brilliant idea that burning down their own cities would hurt Trump kinda backfired
You're inventing their plan.  Fun.


I do love the last few posts, though:  I have my boat to fall back on.  Our security guard....worlds away from those acting out.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 01, 2020, 07:35:56 PM
https://twitter.com/HeerJeet/status/1300937170467745793?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 01, 2020, 08:13:21 PM
Jared’s war among the states. Brutal read in the WSJ. (https://thebulwark.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=41df14e6667a85d0f6e4a4f5e&id=b50aac2300&e=cc5e458e14)

I don't have a Wall Street Journal subscription, or I'd post the whole thing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 01, 2020, 08:14:18 PM
You're inventing their plan.  Fun.


I do love the last few posts, though:  I have my boat to fall back on.  Our security guard....worlds away from those acting out. 
Its amazing how fast Biden saw the light when your internal polls went south on ya
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 01, 2020, 08:15:31 PM
Jared’s war among the states. Brutal read in the WSJ. (https://thebulwark.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=41df14e6667a85d0f6e4a4f5e&id=b50aac2300&e=cc5e458e14)

I don't have a Wall Street Journal subscription, or I'd post the whole thing.
sorry dont have a subscription as Im not liberal enough
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2020, 08:20:37 PM
WSJ is too liberal?  

Dang.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 01, 2020, 08:21:57 PM
WSJ is too liberal? 

Dang.
only got to that point in last few years

didnt used to be
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 01, 2020, 08:31:49 PM
since Im retired and sitting around with nothing better to do I seek out what I call internet talent and no Im not talking about porn you people with dirty minds

Im going to post a couple of songs that is performed by a lady named Reina Del Cid

obviously a stage name she is a graduate of Univ of Minnesota but took up music shortly afterward

anyway I really like her

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5MZwlc23B8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzu8lWPVWpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgNBLziAtdc
"Queen of the Cid"?  Interesting.
I really like the last song.  I like the Randy Travis version, but she does it very nicely in her understated way.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 01, 2020, 08:35:45 PM
yes she is all over the place when it comes to songs and thats one of the things I like about her

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 01, 2020, 08:41:06 PM
Heres one she did from Chuck Berry


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ9ZA2-APwM
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 01, 2020, 09:03:00 PM
You're inventing their plan.  Fun.


I do love the last few posts, though:  I have my boat to fall back on.  Our security guard....worlds away from those acting out. 
Eh, I don’t think you have to be poor or black or both to know wrong is wrong and condemn it.  If actually being in the financial demographic of those rioting is a prerequisite for having an opinion on it then a lot of NBA players are going to have to clam up.

Luckily, many years ago a bunch of privileged white men decided slavery was wrong and took action to end it. They could have said, “Well, you know, I’m not black. I’m not a slave. Not sure it’s my place to have a say here.” 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 01, 2020, 09:46:11 PM
Jared’s war among the states. Brutal read in the WSJ. (https://thebulwark.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=41df14e6667a85d0f6e4a4f5e&id=b50aac2300&e=cc5e458e14)

I don't have a Wall Street Journal subscription, or I'd post the whole thing.
Well if you snag the article somehow - post it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 01, 2020, 10:14:33 PM
I had a 1995 Volvo 850 that I drove to 385K miles. Hated letting it go. It had no rattles.
Volvos are good cars.
At least they were before the Chinese bought the company.  I don't know about how they are now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 01, 2020, 11:24:48 PM
Trump Campaign Accepts Donations from Neo-Nazi Leader (https://popular.info/p/trump-campaign-accepts-donations?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoyMTg1ODY1LCJwb3N0X2lkIjo5MTk3NzUsIl8iOiJoU3R5cSIsImlhdCI6MTU5ODg4MjcwNiwiZXhwIjoxNTk4ODg2MzA2LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMTY2NCIsInN1YiI6InBvc3QtcmVhY3Rpb24ifQ.BmWtAV5ocURe_mH3ji4XOIMWZwaGUYUQZIJ27X1KR4s&utm_source=The+Bulwark+Newsletter&utm_campaign=8381d17a7d-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_08_31_01_21&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_f4bd64ac2e-8381d17a7d-80836886)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 01, 2020, 11:48:46 PM
Trump Campaign Accepts Donations from Neo-Nazi Leader (https://popular.info/p/trump-campaign-accepts-donations?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoyMTg1ODY1LCJwb3N0X2lkIjo5MTk3NzUsIl8iOiJoU3R5cSIsImlhdCI6MTU5ODg4MjcwNiwiZXhwIjoxNTk4ODg2MzA2LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMTY2NCIsInN1YiI6InBvc3QtcmVhY3Rpb24ifQ.BmWtAV5ocURe_mH3ji4XOIMWZwaGUYUQZIJ27X1KR4s&utm_source=The+Bulwark+Newsletter&utm_campaign=8381d17a7d-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_08_31_01_21&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_f4bd64ac2e-8381d17a7d-80836886)
is that the best the dems can do

they are in deep trouble and they know it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 02, 2020, 01:40:49 AM
Eh, I don’t think you have to be poor or black or both to know wrong is wrong and condemn it.  If actually being in the financial demographic of those rioting is a prerequisite for having an opinion on it then a lot of NBA players are going to have to clam up.

Luckily, many years ago a bunch of privileged white men decided slavery was wrong and took action to end it. They could have said, “Well, you know, I’m not black. I’m not a slave. Not sure it’s my place to have a say here.”
No shit.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 02, 2020, 01:41:39 AM
is that the best the dems can do

they are in deep trouble and they know it
No, WE are in deep trouble.  The fact that Biden isn't up by 20 points is worrying, no matter where you are on the spectrum.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 02, 2020, 01:43:28 AM
Its amazing how fast Biden saw the light when your internal polls went south on ya
Keep saying you and your.....I'll keep saying WE.  


Look around.  This is all under the Trump presidency.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 02, 2020, 07:09:02 AM
Keep saying you and your.....I'll keep saying WE. 


Look around.  This is all under the Trump presidency. 
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ve8kTJH-vYM

is that you Fro? Doing Nancy’s hair?  Did you yell at her for going into a salon that is part of the shutdown or not wearing a mask?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 07:12:12 AM
That's probably the secret base where she loads up airplanes full of soup
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 02, 2020, 07:15:36 AM
https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/08/28/protesters-harass-politicians-rnc-guests-leaving-white-house-after-trumps-speech/

Or are you in this crowd Fro, punching an Old man and Harassing anyone who had the gall to attend the RNC And have a political affiliation different than yours?  I know. TRumps fault.  

😂😂😂😂.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 02, 2020, 07:16:04 AM
That's probably the secret base where she loads up airplanes full of soup
No she keeps her soup in her huge subzero freezer with her gourmet ice cream, remember?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 02, 2020, 07:19:40 AM
That's probably the secret base where she loads up airplanes full of soup
You can joke about it and that’s cool.

but it speaks in large volumes that the highest ranking member of the political party, that has spent the last five months criticizing POTUS for not taking the pandemic seriously and in fact placing all of their eggs in the “he miss handled the pandemic“ bucket to get reelected, Just proved her complete hypocrisy and the fact that she is a total science denier, and a big fat liar. 

Same lady that just said President Trump has slapped science in the face.
😂😂😂

Meanwhile the small business owner who owns the salon and did not authorize this, a single mother with two children, and no income, is going out of business because of the blight caused by the shut down in her neighborhood. She described it as flight from the city and the fact that she has lost all of her surroundings clients and business partners due to the shut down.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 07:31:57 AM
You can joke about it and that’s cool.

but it speaks in large volumes that the highest ranking member of the political party, that has spent the last five months criticizing POTUS for not taking the pandemic seriously and in fact placing all of their eggs in the “he miss handled the pandemic“ bucket to get reelected, Just proved her complete hypocrisy and the fact that she is a total science denier, and a big fat liar. 

Same lady that just said President Trump has slapped science in the face.
😂😂😂

Meanwhile the small business owner who owns the salon and did not authorize this, a single mother with two children, and no income, is going out of business because of the blight caused by the shut down in her neighborhood. She described it as flight from the city and the fact that she has lost all of her surroundings clients and business partners due to the shut down.
Well if she ever runs for president who can not vote for her because of her haircut
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 02, 2020, 07:41:38 AM
Good point.

Lol.  I remember when President Obama. (He the leader of the party of unity and inclusion) referred to McCains VP choice, Sarah Palin,  as “ you can put lipstick on a pig but it is still a pig“.

He got a raucous standing ovation from his audience and the media.

For whatever reason that line makes me think of Pelosi.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2020, 07:57:30 AM
You're inventing their plan.  Fun.


I do love the last few posts, though:  I have my boat to fall back on.  Our security guard....worlds away from those acting out. 
We worked very hard for what we have. And you?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2020, 08:08:32 AM
 (He the leader of the party of unity and inclusion) 
Yeah, OK.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 02, 2020, 08:15:22 AM
We worked very hard for what we have. And you?
Shame on you 847,you should be working harder and longer so the Government can take that and hand it over to shill's like the skragg that's been responding to you.And we know his mommy and daddy brought him up right because he told us so....on these boards
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2020, 08:17:56 AM
Shame on you 847,you should be working harder and longer so the Government can take that and hand it over to shill's like the skragg that's been responding to you.And we know his mommy and daddy brought him up right because he told us so....on these boards
There was one year that we paid almost $250K in taxes. I hope that counts as our fair share.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 08:22:34 AM
We worked very hard for what we have. And you?
Obviously, this isn't true for everyone, and it is also the case that some uber wealthy didn't work all that hard for their wealth.  They may have worked hard and diligently and smartly initially and now expand their wealth as whatever company the own grows in value.

I think the problem is with the core assumption that "working hard" should be a necessary component to "gaining wealth".  It shouldn't, in my view.  Plenty of folks work hard and struggle financially, and others work rather little and do very well.  If you think that's unfair, OK, it may be, but one can imagine government policies to "correct" that unfairness that could have negative unintended consequences.

Our INCOME tax system is more progressive than most of the ones in Europe.  Folks don't appreciate this here.  Countries like Sweden have to tax middle income levels sharply, in addition to VATs and other taxes.  And yes Sweden has more billionaires per capita than does the US.

If you really want to correct the above unfairness, it behooves one to check what other countries have tried, and how that has fared.

I would like substantive changes to our income tax system personally, but I'll leave it at that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 02, 2020, 08:25:37 AM
There was one year that we paid almost $250K in taxes. I hope that counts as our fair share.
It depends upon who you ask. Fair share is nothing but a moving target depending upon your political affiliation. You will notice that "Fair Share" is never defined as it would not be possible to give a pass to those that vote correctly. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 08:57:30 AM
https://twitter.com/donmoyn/status/1301002407250472966?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 02, 2020, 09:00:05 AM
There was one year that we paid almost $250K in taxes. I hope that counts as our fair share.
I  appreciate the effort but you're going to have to try harder ask Orange marxist man.How are we going to fix the damage done last nite.Nancy was getting her hair done so she' out - hair done by a stylist that is going out of business because of her shut downs.So if you can ramp it up a little if it's not asking too much.I know I gave the IRS 600.00 because i didn't claim a 35 dollar share that I didn't know i have - every little bit helps

https://youtu.be/xCc-RWIp7XU
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 09:03:24 AM
Its amazing how fast Biden saw the light when your internal polls went south on ya
More polls out today and more of the same. What's been remarkable in this election is despite all the craziness this year, the polling has barely shifted for both candidates
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 09:05:32 AM
I find that so few voters understand things like Social Security and income taxes and whatever it's nearly impossible to engage in much rational discussion about improvements.  The deficit and the debt is one thing neither party wants to discuss for obvious reasons.  They may want to throw money at Climate Change because that's an easy one, the world is ending unless we spend money on this, but taxes and revenue streams and spending in general?

No way.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2020, 09:08:22 AM
WE worked very hard for what we have.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 09:08:36 AM
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo)

There appears to be some movement in Trump's approval numbers.  I don't know if that translates into poll numbers or not, maybe some.  I don't think polls at this point, especially national polls, are more than suggestive, though trends may be interesting.

We have another two months obviously and I think a lot of "us" have been paying more attention to "other" issues lately.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 09:09:49 AM
WE worked very hard for what we have.

I didn't especially, after the schooling thing, which was pretty hard work.  I was a complete lazy bum my last 12 years at work, demotivated and avoiding any real work.

I was amazed I could find such a sinecure for so long without repercussions.  Nobody seemed to care.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on September 02, 2020, 09:10:51 AM
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo)

There appears to be some movement in Trump's approval numbers.  I don't know if that translates into poll numbers or not, maybe some.  I don't think polls at this point, especially national polls, are more than suggestive, though trends may be interesting.

We have another two months obviously and I think a lot of "us" have been paying more attention to "other" issues lately.
I don't think, even in an identical situation, god forbid, we could ever see something like the post 9/11 bump GW got with as unwilling each side is to credit to other at this point.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2020, 09:29:31 AM
I don't think, even in an identical situation, god forbid, we could ever see something like the post 9/11 bump GW got with as unwilling each side is to credit to other at this point.
Good point.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 09:34:03 AM
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo)

There appears to be some movement in Trump's approval numbers.  I don't know if that translates into poll numbers or not, maybe some.  I don't think polls at this point, especially national polls, are more than suggestive, though trends may be interesting.

We have another two months obviously and I think a lot of "us" have been paying more attention to "other" issues lately.
Well maybe. The 2016 polling was pretty unstable. I don't know that there are a ton of "undecided" voters out there
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2020, 09:36:35 AM
Well maybe. The 2016 polling was pretty unstable. I don't know that there are a ton of "undecided" voters out there
I know many. Small sample, but up here in Wisconsin, many undecided people decided this past week.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 09:43:07 AM
I think a good 40% of the electorate is "swayable".  Some no doubt have a strong lean, but that could change.

This has been an unusual year for obvious reasons, and I think the normal level of attention to the election has not been there for those in the middle, the swayables.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 09:54:54 AM
Racking my brain on what could happen that would sway people now compared to what has happened and rapidly getting into alien invasions
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 10:02:41 AM
I think a good 40% of the electorate is "swayable".  Some no doubt have a strong lean, but that could change.

This has been an unusual year for obvious reasons, and I think the normal level of attention to the election has not been there for those in the middle, the swayables.


I just dont think its as high as 40%

I think its more like 10% maybe as high as 20%
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 10:02:59 AM
Well, let's see what might happen, plausibly, to sway folks in the middle:

Debates, that's often a big one.

More gaffes by either candidate, that can be big

A continued decline in COVID cases and clear signs the economy is recovering, that's possible.

Continued "unrest" in various cities being handled better by one candidate or the other

Continued growth in the stock market making a lot of folks feeling wealthier and thinking the status quo is OK

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 10:03:49 AM
I just dont think its as high as 40%

I think its more like 10% maybe as high as 20%
I have a very simple model of the electorate that is 30-30-40.  Each 30 would not under any circumstances change their vote.  The 40 might, even if it's unlikely.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 10:05:15 AM
More polls out today and more of the same. What's been remarkable in this election is despite all the craziness this year, the polling has barely shifted for both candidates
what you should have said is the pollsters have barely shifted
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 10:07:05 AM
One plausible reason the polling numbers have not shifted much is what I said, the "swayables" have been preoccupied.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 10:11:10 AM
the window into what the people feel is clouded by the media

right now Biden has somewhere between a 5 to a 10 point lead

you will see that lead evaporate by election day not because people have changed their minds but because the polls will come back to reality

there is no way Biden is ahead in the swing states but we wont see that in the polls until a few weeks before the election
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 10:11:23 AM
I think the single biggest thing, that wouldn't be that difficult, is if Trump was able to make a consistent effort at being the president. You saw the convention that was clearly the goal. But he's already back to prattling about secret airplanes and soup warriors, not the type of stuff that is very appealing to someone who could be swayed.  But it hasn't happened in years so it's tough to think it will happen.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 10:14:15 AM
I expect a close election.  I don't really care much who wins really.  I think four more years of Trump would be more entertaining, so there is that.

On the other hand, Biden is entertaining in a different way, to the extent he would actually be President in real terms.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 10:14:28 AM
I think the single biggest thing, that wouldn't be that difficult, is if Trump was able to make a consistent effort at being the president. You saw the convention that was clearly the goal. But he's already back to prattling about secret airplanes and soup warriors, not the type of stuff that is very appealing to someone who could be swayed.  But it hasn't happened in years so it's tough to think it will happen.
just wait MS its going to be magic

and again Biden will never debate so thats also going to be a factor
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 10:32:26 AM
just wait MS its going to be magic

and again Biden will never debate so thats also going to be a factor
Oh I'm making no predictions, other than no one thinks Trump can win the popular vote, so he's resorting to the wing and prayer of threading the needle through the hot mess that is the electoral college
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 10:38:50 AM
Oh I'm making no predictions, other than no one thinks Trump can win the popular vote, so he's resorting to the wing and prayer of threading the needle through the hot mess that is the electoral college
no prizes are given for winning the popular vote

if there were then Trump would be campaigning completely differently
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 10:43:01 AM
no prizes are given for winning the popular vote

if there were then Trump would be campaigning completely differently
Sadly yes. Probably governing in a different way as well
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2020, 10:50:10 AM
It's all Trump's fault.

Except, oops.


Think back a few years ago, to U.S. Rep Maxine Waters, the California Democrat, trying to take things to the edge of anarchy, with angry confrontations, and use chaos as a ladder.

“If you see anybody from that (Trump) Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd, and you push back on them, and you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere,” Waters said in 2018.

Democrats didn’t criticize her. She was their hero. What she wanted grew. Just the other day, U.S. Sen. Rand Paul and his wife were surrounded by an angry Jacobin mob on the streets of Washington and much of the country saw it.




https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/john-kass/ct-trump-kenosha-kass-20200902-zaajb25zijeendcxngfsbvmwya-story.html (https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/john-kass/ct-trump-kenosha-kass-20200902-zaajb25zijeendcxngfsbvmwya-story.html)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 11:00:21 AM
I think Trump COULD win the popular vote this time.  I imagine I'm hardly alone in that.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 11:00:25 AM
my wife and I are both voting absentee this year so I sent in our request for two absentee voter applications

we will need to fill those out and send them in to receive our absentee ballots 

we have two cats who want to also vote so I need to send their requests also I'll do that tomorrow

the state is currently threatening to sue Harris County to keep them from just sending out blank voter 

ballots to 2 million residents of Harris County

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 11:02:05 AM
https://www.predictit.org/markets/detail/5554/Will-Donald-Trump-win-the-popular-vote-in-2020 (https://www.predictit.org/markets/detail/5554/Will-Donald-Trump-win-the-popular-vote-in-2020)

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/its-way-too-soon-to-count-trump-out/ (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/its-way-too-soon-to-count-trump-out/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 11:03:40 AM
If these numbers give you a sense of deja vu, it may be because they’re very similar to our final forecast in 2016 (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/) … when Trump also had a 29 percent chance of winning! (And Hillary Clinton had a 71 percent chance.) So if you’re not taking a 29 percent chance as a serious possibility, I’m not sure there’s much we can say at this point, although there’s a Zoom poker game that I’d be happy to invite you to.

One last parallel to 2016 — when some models gave Clinton as high as a 99 percent chance of winning (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/upshot/presidential-polls-forecast.html#other-forecasts) — is that FiveThirtyEight’s forecast tends to be more conservative than others. (For a more complete description of our model, including how it is handling some complications related to COVID-19, please see our methodology guide (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-fivethirtyeights-2020-presidential-forecast-works-and-whats-different-because-of-covid-19/).)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 11:04:44 AM
I think Trump COULD win the popular vote this time.  I imagine I'm hardly alone in that.


Based on what?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 11:05:37 AM
Our model says there’s an 81 percent chance that Biden wins the popular vote — compared to his 71 percent chance in the Electoral College. That means there’s about a 10 percent chance that Trump again wins the Electoral College despite losing the popular vote. (Conversely, the model puts the chance that Biden wins the Electoral College but loses the popular vote at only around 1 in 750.)

That reflects the fact that the tipping-point state (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipping-point_state#:~:text=In United States presidential elections,order of their vote margins.) — the state that would provide the decisive 270th electoral vote — is somewhat to the right of the national popular vote. More specifically, our projection as of Tuesday had Biden winning the popular vote by 6.3 percentage points nationally, but winning the tipping-point state, Wisconsin, by a smaller margin, 4.5 percentage points:

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 11:07:20 AM
Based on what?
Probabilities.  If you think there is a 100% chance Trump loses the PV, you are holding an opinion quite different from many "experts".

Obviously, it cannot be a 100% chance, that would be illogical to presume.  You might say 95%, or even 99%.

The 19% chance 538 holds earlier in August is still one chance in five obviously.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 11:19:00 AM
Probabilities.  If you think there is a 100% chance Trump loses the PV, you are holding an opinion quite different from many "experts".

Obviously, it cannot be a 100% chance, that would be illogical to presume.  You might say 95%, or even 99%.

The 19% chance 538 holds earlier in August is still one chance in five obviously.
Roughly similar to the chance South Carolina would beat Clemson last year. Don't recall too many picks for the Cocks last year
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 11:38:58 AM
A 20% chance is roughly equal to a ten point spread in college football.

Clemson vs. South Carolina spread: Tigers -27.5. Clemson vs. South Carolina over-under: 50.5.Nov 30, 2019

A 27 point dog won about 2.5% of the games, one time in forty.

So, 20% chance versus 2.5% chance, not the same thing.  At all.  Duh.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 11:43:07 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/rubbingtherock.com/2019/07/10/clemson-football-espn-fpi-predicts-tigers-game-game-results/amp/

Before the season FPI had Clemson with a win probability of 85 percent, a few ticks better than 538 has Biden's chances of winning the popular vote.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 02, 2020, 11:46:31 AM
Don't recall too many picks for the Cocks last year
Since I'm guessing Kamala Harris doesn't have a swinging richard you might have to rephrase that this year
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 11:50:15 AM
Roughly similar to the chance South Carolina would beat Clemson last year. Don't recall too many picks for the Cocks last year
You didn't say before the season, when the oddsmakers had USC with a larger chance.  Before the game, they had a much smaller chance as befitting the results of the previous games.

At any rate, Trump clearly has a nonzero chance of winning the popular vote.  Whoever says he doesn't is engaging in wishful and bizarre thinking.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 11:52:40 AM
You didn't say before the season, when the oddsmakers had USC with a larger chance.  Before the game, they had a much smaller chance as befitting the results of the previous games.

At any rate, Trump clearly has a nonzero chance of winning the popular vote.  Whoever says he doesn't is engaging in wishful and bizarre thinking.
Trying to figure out who predicts something will happen when the odds are 1 in 5 that it actually happens. Die hards and idiots, mostly.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 11:53:05 AM
People fundamentally misunderstand statistics if they think that a 70% chance means something will happen. It means it is expected to happen seven of ten times, but every time it doesn't happen (approximately three of ten times) is also an expected outcome.

FiveThirtyEight understands statistics. They also do a good job of trying to understand the variables. While they didn't expect a Trump win in 2016, they did identify variables that would lead to it: late-breaking swing voters going for the outsider, and dissatisfaction generally hurting the "insider." Those same things are less likely to help Trump this time.

This whole thread--and the Trump supporters on it--make me shake my head, even those friends of mine whom I know personally. I'm stunned that you don't see him as I do, and I'm terrified by what that means--already--for our country. I hope CD is right that it may not make much difference, but I already see a huge difference.

The confidence I see here from Trump supporters fits my narrative of Trump supporters almost too well. You have confidence despite the massive 2018 beating the Trump-led Republicans took, and the polls, because they are similar to the numbers between Clinton and Trump in 2016. But they encapsulate much different dynamics, including the lack of apathy that we saw in 2016, and an opponent who isn't nearly as unpopular as Clinton was (/is). Voters are motivated this year, and yes, that includes Trump voters. We won't see 200,000 fewer votes in Wisconsin than we saw in 2012--even with COVID-19. 

Yet you are convinced. To borrow from our dear leader, it is what it is. Nothing this partisan can say will change it--nor your views about Trump's role in Kenosha and Portland, nor anything else. To Bwar's point:
 
https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe (https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 02, 2020, 11:54:44 AM
You didn't say before the season, when the oddsmakers had USC with a larger chance.  Before the game, they had a much smaller chance as befitting the results of the previous games.

At any rate, Trump clearly has a nonzero chance of winning the popular vote.  Whoever says he doesn't is engaging in wishful and bizarre thinking.
Yep. 

Even if one felt it wasn't likely, there's always a chance, and usually not an awful one. There's only two outcomes, and if someone had barely any chance of winning the popular vote, they've have only a slightly better on in the electoral college, and that ain't the case. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 02, 2020, 11:55:27 AM
Trying to figure out who predicts something will happen when the odds are 1 in 5 that it actually happens. Die hards and idiots, mostly.
So you've been to the Bookie Joint?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 12:01:38 PM
So you've been to the Bookie Joint?
I remember being in Phoenix the day before the 2003 Fiesta Bowl and talking to a gambler at a bar who talked about taking Miami's fans money because they were giving him like 30 points. I imagine he had a pretty good payday, and he was a Cane fan.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2020, 12:02:22 PM
People fundamentally misunderstand statistics if they think that a 70% chance means something will happen. It means it is expected to happen seven of ten times, but every time it doesn't happen (approximately three of ten times) is also an expected outcome.

FiveThirtyEight understands statistics. They also do a good job of trying to understand the variables. While they didn't expect a Trump win in 2016, they did identify variables that would lead to it: late-breaking swing voters going for the outsider, and dissatisfaction generally hurting the "insider." Those same things are less likely to help Trump this time.

This whole thread--and the Trump supporters on it--make me shake my head, even those friends of mine whom I know personally. I'm stunned that you don't see him as I do, and I'm terrified by what that means--already--for our country. I hope CD is right that it may not make much difference, but I already see a huge difference.

The confidence I see here from Trump supporters fits my narrative of Trump supporters almost too well. You have confidence despite the massive 2018 beating the Trump-led Republicans took, and the polls, because they are similar to the numbers between Clinton and Trump in 2016. But they encapsulate much different dynamics, including the lack of apathy that we saw in 2016, and an opponent who isn't nearly as unpopular as Clinton was (/is). Voters are motivated this year, and yes, that includes Trump voters. We won't see 200,000 fewer votes in Wisconsin than we saw in 2012--even with COVID-19.

Yet you are convinced. To borrow from our dear leader, it is what it is. Nothing this partisan can say will change it--nor your views about Trump's role in Kenosha and Portland, nor anything else. To Bwar's point:
 
https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe (https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe)
I don't think that includes as many as you think. Yes, I'm a conservative, but I do not support Donald Trump. He's insufferable, and he's not a conservative.

My friend, you are painting with a brush too broad.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 02, 2020, 12:04:08 PM

This whole thread--and the Trump supporters on it--make me shake my head, even those friends of mine whom I know personally. I'm stunned that you don't see him as I do
Chairman Mao,most of us are hardly Trump Supporters,but if you don't see what's going on then pry your head out of Pelosi's backside or share some of those drugs
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 12:09:59 PM
One chance in five is exactly that, and a long long way from zero chances.  It's obviously an estimate and a projection, but the 538 site does this for a living, so to claim Trump has NO chance of winning the PV is idiotic twaddle.

If you flip a coin twice and it is heads both times, you have satisfied one chance in four.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 12:15:38 PM
One chance in five is exactly that, and a long long way from zero chances.  It's obviously an estimate and a projection, but the 538 site does this for a living, so to claim Trump has NO chance of winning the PV is idiotic twaddle.

If you flip a coin twice and it is heads both times, you have satisfied one chance in four.
In any event, no one thinks Trump can win the popular vote, so he is going on the wing and the prayer of the electoral college. Ohio has moved towards the red so maybe we won't get as many commercials as normal. Of course I rarely watch cable anymore so maybe I'm wrong. Not sure how the Hulu determines commercials.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 02, 2020, 12:19:35 PM
I remember being in Phoenix the day before the 2003 Fiesta Bowl and talking to a gambler at a bar who talked about taking Miami's fans money because they were giving him like 30 points. I imagine he had a pretty good payday, and he was a Cane fan.
Ya when Texas beat USC in'06 I made 300 but was itching to put more of it on the money line.Sometimes ya gotta play those hunches,still not a bad little payday.I've mentioned I found the old CFN forum after searching websites for any gambling insight when they had their staff pix..One saturday on College ball I put 300 one one game and hedged 3 $50.00 picks.Won the 3 $50 wagers and lost the 300 - go 3 of 4 and still take it on the chin :sign0065:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 12:20:20 PM
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/2020_elections_electoral_college_map.html (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/2020_elections_electoral_college_map.html)

Biden's margins in these states is often less than Hillary had at this time.  The figures are slight obviously and state polling can be rather dubious at times.

Anyone who claims no one thinks Trump COULD win the PV is frankly out of it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 12:24:08 PM
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/2020_elections_electoral_college_map.html (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/2020_elections_electoral_college_map.html)

Biden's margins in these states is often less than Hillary had at this time.  The figures are slight obviously and state polling can be rather dubious at times.

Anyone who claims no one thinks Trump COULD win the PV is frankly out of it.
If you have to bet your house on whether Trump wins or loses the popular vote, which way you going?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 12:26:40 PM
Look, you clearly don't understand the simple term "one chance in five".  So, I'm not going to try and explain it to you any more.

Your are entitled to your idiotic opinions, and I'm entitled to ignore them as what they are, idiotic.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2020, 12:29:37 PM
If you have to bet your house on whether Trump wins or loses the popular vote, which way you going?
I'm making my financial and business plans with the idea that Joe wins in November.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 12:33:18 PM
Trying to figure out who predicts something will happen when the odds are 1 in 5 that it actually happens. Die hards and idiots, mostly.
this aint vegas

when someone quotes any odds concerning this election they are full of bird poop cause they either dont know or are trying to fool the voter
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 12:34:09 PM
I'm making my financial and business plans with the idea that Joe wins in November.
then you are going to be surprised
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 12:34:28 PM
Look, you clearly don't understand the simple term "one chance in five".  So, I'm not going to try and explain it to you any more.

Your are entitled to your idiotic opinions, and I'm entitled to ignore them as what they are, idiotic.
The problem is that you don't understand that 1 in 5 for Trump means 4 in 5 for Biden, so you conflate them into a meaningless idea that of course Trump CAN win the popular vote.  Trump CAN win the popular vote even if the probability is 99.9 against him.  We are talking about what people expect to happen - and you clearly don't expect Trump to win the popular vote.  Instead of just saying so, you give idiotic talks about how no one understands probability so you can insult people.  Waste of time.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 12:34:49 PM
Frankly, it warms my heart that you two aren't Trump supporters. Badge, I agree that Trump is no conservative. The reason I had that misimpression of you is yesterday you said that Trump saved Kenosha (as opposed to the National Guard the governor ordered after the vigilante shooting). While you may not be a Trump supporter, that sentiment shocks me. In my view (back to the Oatmeal), Trump caused Kenosha (not the police shooting, but the violence that followed it), first by his complete lack of empathy, and second by his tacit--and now explicit--support for vigilante "justice." And comparing a single, outspoken member of Congress (from a very safe seat, mind you) to the President as far as impact on the nation's mood seems like a big stretch. That's how my backfire effect brain processes your comments on this subject.

I am--unabashedly--liberal. That impacts my worldview, undoubtedly. I'm also a realist who understands something about how our constitutional republic is supposed to work, which means I tend to back centrists...left-leaning centrists. To be fair, more than centrists, I back people who I think are effective at governing within our constitutional system (with a left-leaning perspective). One of the saving graces of the Trump presidency (in my opinion) is how incompetent he and his adherents are. Thank goodness. But my big fear is how effectively he's turned us even more on each other, and how no matter how crazy the things he and his lieutenants say, they become part of his followers beliefs shortly thereafter--even when they are clearly projections.

A recent example, it is a matter of public record that Kellyanne Conway said, on Fox News, "The more chaos and anarchy and vandalism and violence reigns, the better it is for the very clear choice on who's best on public safety and law and order." No debate, no opinion, one of the President's closest advisors said this on TV. Clearly she feels that more chaos, etc., benefits Trump's reelection campaign. Within days (less, I think), the Trump echo machine was saying the opposite: that the Democrats want more chaos because they think it benefits them. That is quite a turn--and a classic projection.

The point isn't whom the chaos benefits, the reason either side wants to say the other side benefits from the chaos is because all the politicos know that blaming the other side for supporting violence is a way to cut into the other side's support. So the Trump supporters (I don't want to call them Republicans, though he has rallied Republican support better than other actual Republicans) say Biden wants this because they think that the undecided voter in Wisconsin that Badge knows will hear that and think: violence bad + Biden likes violence = Biden bad. So they say it, and Trump supporters believe it, despite it being a trusted Trump advisor who said chaos benefits Trump, not the other way around.

Recapping: Trump top lieutenant says chaos is good for Trump. Almost instantly, Trump supporters say that it is Biden that wants chaos. Trump supporters believe that: Biden wants violence. This kind of thing is bizarre, and consistent.

Back to the polls for a moment. One of the most incredible things in the Trump presidency is the lack of movement in polling regarding Trump's approval rating. His range is about 38-43% approval NO MATTER WHAT. For all the good and bad, he stays in that range (within margins of error). It's made me believe what Trump said--again a matter of public record, not opinion:

"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK? It's, like, incredible."

It is incredible. And very, very sad.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 12:35:47 PM
this aint vegas

when someone quotes any odds concerning this election they are full of bird poop cause they either dont know or are trying to fool the voter
Predicting the future is an exercise into the haphazard, but I think 538 does a pretty good job of making educated guesses.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 12:39:02 PM
Predicting the future is an exercise into the haphazard, but I think 538 does a pretty good job of making educated guesses.
except the 2016 election they were way off just like most other pollsters


https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 12:41:00 PM
heres another article

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-i-acted-like-a-pundit-and-screwed-up-on-donald-trump/
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 12:43:40 PM
sometimes folks just dont want to believe history but its happening again

Trump will win by an even bigger margin then in 2016
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 12:45:21 PM
Right--but you see the difference between, "I got it wrong so the whole exercise is pointless," and "I got it wrong, so I'm looking at the reasons why and trying to fix my model to address it." Polling that points to an outcome within a margin of error, isn't incorrect polling because the result fell within the margin of error. To the contrary, the polling was accurate--it was the extrapolation from the polling that was wrong.

And there FiveThirtyEight has been very clear this time around: the numbers are better for Biden, but don't rule out Trump. That's much different from saying the polling is all a false narrative.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 12:47:24 PM
except the 2016 election they were way off just like most other pollsters


https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/
I mean yes, they were wrong, though Nate Silver said at the time he was having a difficult time making a prediction, and eventually landed on roughly a 1/3 chance for a Trump win.  Clearly the polling in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania was off - of course, the pollsters know that and theoretically have been trying to improve it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 12:48:09 PM
LH320: serious question: if the election turns out as today's polls (and polling error) suggest: Biden wins Wisconsin by a hair, Pennsylvania and Michigan by a few percentage points, all else stays effectively the same as 2016, with Biden winning the popular vote by about 3M nationwide, will you believe that the election was legitimate?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 02, 2020, 12:48:41 PM
The election is going to be close, just like the last one.  Anyone that believes Trump doesn't have a very good chance to win, is kidding himself.  Regarding the popular vote?  Sure, he could win that, too.  It's irrelevant though.

I won't be voting for him, but he's going to take Texas regardless of how I vote.  Can't tell you how many more Trump flags and banners I see now, compared to four years ago, even in super-liberal Austin.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 12:49:02 PM
I gave up on our System years ago, just gave up.  I don't care who wins.  I try and adjust my personal things as well as I can given whatever outcome.

Other than that, it's out of my hands, and I know it.  

Every Presidential cycle we seem to have options worse than they last.  I have not voted FOR a candidate with any enthusiasm since Bill Bradley was running.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 12:50:22 PM
The election is going to be close, just like the last one.  Anyone that believes Trump doesn't have a very good chance to win, is kidding himself.  Regarding the popular vote?  Sure, he could win that, too.  It's irrelevant though.

I won't be voting for him, but he's going to take Texas regardless of how I vote.  Can't tell you how many more Trump flags and banners I see now, compared to four years ago, even in super-liberal Austin.


That's not going to help the theory that Trump voters are afraid to say they are voting for Trump
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2020, 12:57:19 PM
Frankly, it warms my heart that you two aren't Trump supporters. Badge, I agree that Trump is no conservative. The reason I had that misimpression of you is yesterday you said that Trump saved Kenosha (as opposed to the National Guard the governor ordered after the vigilante shooting). While you may not be a Trump supporter, that sentiment shocks me. In my view (back to the Oatmeal), Trump caused Kenosha (not the police shooting, but the violence that followed it), first by his complete lack of empathy, and second by his tacit--and now explicit--support for vigilante "justice." And comparing a single, outspoken member of Congress (from a very safe seat, mind you) to the President as far as impact on the nation's mood seems like a big stretch. That's how my backfire effect brain processes your comments on this subject.

The Governor waited too long. Businesses and property are destroyed, and people are dead.

On Day 2, he called in 125 National Guard - not nearly enough. Then he doubled it on Day 3 - not nearly enough.

On Day 4, he accepted the Federal offer of 1000 US Marshalls and 500 Military Police (these numbers are not reported - only what I'm told by the security force here at the marina, and corroborated by a police officer). Too late.

He also increased the Guard to 1000 members - too late.

That's when the major violence and riots stopped. I'm going to credit the Feds on that, for sure, and also the three states who sent guardsmen to here, which included Michigan, Alabama and Minnesota.

2500 armed forces, combined with the local and county police, is how you crush riots in small cities like this one. Probably need 25000 in Portland??

In talking with two people in the know last night, that 17 year old who shot 3 (killing 2) probably has a self-defense case. His attorney thinks so too, but they always think that. Anyway, he was attacked by armed men. That much is on video. He'll still do time, no matter what, and he should. But I don't think he will be convicted of murder here. You have to be 18 to carry in Wisconsin. The gun was provided to him by the local organizer, who will also do time, as he should. 

Please do not take me as a vigilante supporter. I am not - they are just as dangerous as the rioters. They should all go to jail, and not pass GO.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 12:57:29 PM
It's a good example of how people so fundamentally misunderstand statistics that a 5 point win in a national election is a landslide (it is, by the way). People take that to mean, "our country has really moved ____ [left or right, depending on the outcome]." What it really means is that we have a pretty narrow political range that is center-something (left or right, pick your political allegiance and apply it). 

Again, back to the micro example: I live in a solidly Democratic area. Around 70% of registered voters here are Democrats, and our Congressperson routinely wins between 70 and 75% of the vote. But when you knock on doors, you realize that three in ten voters (who vote Republican; the registration is closer to 25%) is a LOT of people in your neighborhood.

This election will be close--almost all of our national elections are. The last real blowout was probably 1984. That's why people pay so much attention to polling, because it's the only way to really gauge just how close things are.

Incidentally, the day-of polling, the exit-polling in 2016 was accurate. It wasn't the vote counts that first told us Trump had actually won, it was the exit polls in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan. The ah-ha moment came before the unofficial vote count; it came with the exit polls.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 12:59:13 PM
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/trump-cant-win/ (https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/trump-cant-win/)

Kinda funny ...

Whatever the polls say now (and right now they show Hillary ahead (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html)), the long-term patterns of American politics tell us that Trump is not going to get millions more votes than Romney did, and he’s not going to carry enough swing states to overcome the historic pattern of Democratic advantage. Hillary will win in November, and she will be sworn in as our next president on January 20.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2020, 01:01:05 PM
That's not going to help the theory that Trump voters are afraid to say they are voting for Trump
Were I a supporter, I certainly wouldn't put a sticker on my car, or wear a hat. I'd honestly be afraid.

That's where we are today. Violence has been called for. Not my President. Resist. It's saddens me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 02, 2020, 01:01:31 PM
That's not going to help the theory that Trump voters are afraid to say they are voting for Trump
The USA isn't a homogeneous region.  I think it depends on geography.  Trump voters in Texas certainly aren't going to be afraid to say it.

But in places like Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania?  Yeah, I could definitely see them either lying to the pollster, or lying to themselves, about how they'll eventually vote in November.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 01:01:35 PM
The Governor waited too long. Businesses and property are destroyed, and people are dead.

True.

I started to write more, but I don't think it matters.

The rest of my posting on this today is about statistics and the backfire effect. At least for now. :-)

PS I'm doing a terrible job staying out of this thread. *Click.*
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 01:03:01 PM
LH320: serious question: if the election turns out as today's polls (and polling error) suggest: Biden wins Wisconsin by a hair, Pennsylvania and Michigan by a few percentage points, all else stays effectively the same as 2016, with Biden winning the popular vote by about 3M nationwide, will you believe that the election was legitimate?
if there isnt some earth shattering development sure

now how bout you if Trump wins
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 01:04:57 PM
Were I a supporter, I certainly wouldn't put a sticker on my car, or wear a hat. I'd honestly be afraid.

That's where we are today. Violence has been called for. Not my President. Resist. It's saddens me.
TBH I am somewhat afraid of putting up a Biden sign
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 01:07:05 PM
We drove around some neighbors the other day we had not explored before.  These are originally middle class locales but because of location (they are close in) they have evolved to being upper middle class in housing prices.  Out of 400 or so houses, I saw 2 Biden signs, and no Trump signs.  I haven't seen a Trump bumper sticker in ages, I rarely see a Biden one, I see more Bernie stickers than anything else.

This is a younger liberal area of town, our Congressman who just passed ran unopposed usually.  The district is about 60% black.  I don't see nearly as many outward expressions of voting preference as I have in the past, the suburbs are probably different.

I do think people are uneasy with expressing themselves outwardly (I would be as well).  I don't know if that impacts polling at all.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 01:07:52 PM
Of course. Facts are facts. Just as I did last time. I wasn't happy about it; I'm not happy with the current (and historical) design of the electoral college, but that doesn't mean it's fake.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 01:07:59 PM
The USA isn't a homogeneous region.  I think it depends on geography.  Trump voters in Texas certainly aren't going to be afraid to say it.

But in places like Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania?  Yeah, I could definitely see them either lying to the pollster, or lying to themselves, about how they'll eventually vote in November.

Maybe, though I haven't seen much sign of it.  Frankly, the single biggest loss for Trump IMO has been the suburb whites who went in with a "what's the worst that can happen" idea in 2016, and this time go voting with a feeling that something worse can happen.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 01:11:14 PM
if you look closely at what gave Hillary the popular vote in 2016

New York and California

If you took those two states away Trump wins popular vote

I dont know about you but I thank my lucky stars we dont have a system that allows California and New York to pick my president
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2020, 01:13:30 PM
True.

I started to write more, but I don't think it matters.

The rest of my posting on this today is about statistics and the backfire effect. At least for now. :-)

PS I'm doing a terrible job staying out of this thread. *Click.*
Thanks pal.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 01:13:59 PM
I imagine the popular vote would be, well, "popular", I think the polls show solid support for it.  Of course, that is somewhat circular.

Anyway, it's not in the cards, the move by states is interesting, but also is probably unlikely "soon", and could be delayed by court challenges.  California might be shocked to see their Electors voting RED when the state voted heavily BLUE.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 02, 2020, 01:15:20 PM
Maybe, though I haven't seen much sign of it.  Frankly, the single biggest loss for Trump IMO has been the suburb whites who went in with a "what's the worst that can happen" idea in 2016, and this time go voting with a feeling that something worse can happen.
Your inability to  "see much sign of it" isn't scientific, likely contains some confirmation bias, and is not really applicable here.  Because the entire point of being silent about supporting Trump, is that you WOULDN'T see much sign of it in the first place.

And I think you're underestimating the number of suburban whites who think things are proceeding in a generally okay way, or at least they were before the Coronavirus hit, but that's only my supposition as well.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 01:18:31 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/mW3UUyj.png)

If ever a year could be an outlier ...


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 01:23:01 PM
I'm not a fan of doing away with the electoral college. We are the United States of America, with a constitution that grants a great deal of governing power to individual states. That means all the states need a say in national elections, which requires some kind of thumb on the scale for the less populous ones. My inelegant solution would be simply to take the senatorial votes out of the electoral college. That would reduce California's 55 votes to 53, Wyoming's 3 votes to 1. The battleground states would still be Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, increasingly Arizona and Colorado, etc., because the focus would still be on the swing states. But it would reduce the inequality in an individual's vote as between even Texas an North Dakota (to pick two other than California and Wyoming, which is--of course--the largest disparity).

I probably haven't thought enough about it to come up with a good solution, but it's all academic in any case because the less populous states are unlikely to support a constitutional amendment that strips them of power relative to the most populous ones. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 01:24:09 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/mW3UUyj.png)

If ever a year could be an outlier ...



What volatility? I'm trying to understand what this graph represents?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 01:25:25 PM
The biggest chance is the current effort by some states to choose electors solely based on the national popular vote.

I think that approach has some issues, one of which being how to do a national recount, if needed.  We don't have any need for national recounts today.  There is no way for these states to demand that other states do a recount obviously.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 01:25:59 PM
What volatility? I'm trying to understand what this graph represents?
Volatility in the stock market tends to be modest in Sept/Oct in election years.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on September 02, 2020, 01:29:59 PM
american's voted that the best Mexican restaurant was taco bell...   Not sure I'm in favor of a true democracy.  Mob/Majority rules are not always the best answer, especially for minority opinion rights.   
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 01:38:26 PM
I'm not a fan of doing away with the electoral college. We are the United States of America, with a constitution that grants a great deal of governing power to individual states. That means all the states need a say in national elections, which requires some kind of thumb on the scale for the less populous ones. My inelegant solution would be simply to take the senatorial votes out of the electoral college. That would reduce California's 55 votes to 53, Wyoming's 3 votes to 1. The battleground states would still be Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, increasingly Arizona and Colorado, etc., because the focus would still be on the swing states. But it would reduce the inequality in an individual's vote as between even Texas an North Dakota (to pick two other than California and Wyoming, which is--of course--the largest disparity).

I probably haven't thought enough about it to come up with a good solution, but it's all academic in any case because the less populous states are unlikely to support a constitutional amendment that strips them of power relative to the most populous ones.
I dont think mathematically speaking that subtracting 2 from all states electoral votes does anything but favor the more populated states

so as far as states rights is concerned I dont think this helps it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 01:39:56 PM
american's voted that the best Mexican restaurant was taco bell...  Not sure I'm in favor of a true democracy.  Mob/Majority rules are not always the best answer, especially for minority opinion rights. 
I think we Texans would take great exception with that
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 01:41:37 PM
Your inability to  "see much sign of it" isn't scientific, likely contains some confirmation bias, and is not really applicable here.  Because the entire point of being silent about supporting Trump, is that you WOULDN'T see much sign of it in the first place.

And I think you're underestimating the number of suburban whites who think things are proceeding in a generally okay way, or at least they were before the Coronavirus hit, but that's only my supposition as well.
My main reasoning is under a theory where Trump voters are  secretly afraid to say they support Trump, we'd see some evidence for it. What would that evidence look like? At the very least, a lot of variance in polls on Trump's support. That hasn't really been the case. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 01:42:33 PM
Well, my point is to reduce the current imbalance in the electoral college, which I think gives the less populous states too much of a say. So that was kind of my point--without doing away with it entirely.

Also, the states still have their two senators, which gives a massive advantage to the less populous states in Congress. So I'm not that worried about protecting them.

Texas, as the third most populous state, doesn't have much to worry about, but politically it is more aligned with the more rural states (as are you, 320), so it's not surprising that Texas doesn't like the idea of the popular vote. But a decade or two from now, if it has turned blue (as trends indicate is a possibility), maybe popular opinion in Texas will change.

It's still all academic. None of this is very likely to happen in our lifetimes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 01:44:29 PM
My main reasoning is under a theory where Trump voters are  secretly afraid to say they support Trump, we'd see some evidence for it. What would that evidence look like? At the very least, a lot of variance in polls on Trump's support. That hasn't really been the case.
I dont think Trump votes are afraid to say they are for Trump

I think its the simple fact they are not being asked as much as dem voters are

again the Polls are wrong but I think thats out of design of the poll not because the Trump voter is afraid 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 01:45:26 PM
american's voted that the best Mexican restaurant was taco bell...  Not sure I'm in favor of a true democracy.  Mob/Majority rules are not always the best answer, especially for minority opinion rights. 
I can't even think of any other Mexican restaurants out there.  Are you saying some places have options?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 02, 2020, 01:45:56 PM
Frankly, it warms my heart that you two aren't Trump supporters. Badge, I agree that Trump is no conservative. The reason I had that misimpression of you is yesterday you said that Trump saved Kenosha (as opposed to the National Guard the governor ordered after the vigilante shooting). While you may not be a Trump supporter, that sentiment shocks me. In my view (back to the Oatmeal), Trump caused Kenosha (not the police shooting, but the violence that followed it), first by his complete lack of empathy, and second by his tacit--and now explicit--support for vigilante "justice." And comparing a single, outspoken member of Congress (from a very safe seat, mind you) to the President as far as impact on the nation's mood seems like a big stretch. That's how my backfire effect brain processes your comments on this subject.

I am--unabashedly--liberal. That impacts my worldview, undoubtedly. I'm also a realist who understands something about how our constitutional republic is supposed to work, which means I tend to back centrists...left-leaning centrists. To be fair, more than centrists, I back people who I think are effective at governing within our constitutional system (with a left-leaning perspective). One of the saving graces of the Trump presidency (in my opinion) is how incompetent he and his adherents are. Thank goodness. But my big fear is how effectively he's turned us even more on each other, and how no matter how crazy the things he and his lieutenants say, they become part of his followers beliefs shortly thereafter--even when they are clearly projections.

A recent example, it is a matter of public record that Kellyanne Conway said, on Fox News, "The more chaos and anarchy and vandalism and violence reigns, the better it is for the very clear choice on who's best on public safety and law and order." No debate, no opinion, one of the President's closest advisors said this on TV. Clearly she feels that more chaos, etc., benefits Trump's reelection campaign. Within days (less, I think), the Trump echo machine was saying the opposite: that the Democrats want more chaos because they think it benefits them. That is quite a turn--and a classic projection.

The point isn't whom the chaos benefits, the reason either side wants to say the other side benefits from the chaos is because all the politicos know that blaming the other side for supporting violence is a way to cut into the other side's support. So the Trump supporters (I don't want to call them Republicans, though he has rallied Republican support better than other actual Republicans) say Biden wants this because they think that the undecided voter in Wisconsin that Badge knows will hear that and think: violence bad + Biden likes violence = Biden bad. So they say it, and Trump supporters believe it, despite it being a trusted Trump advisor who said chaos benefits Trump, not the other way around.

Recapping: Trump top lieutenant says chaos is good for Trump. Almost instantly, Trump supporters say that it is Biden that wants chaos. Trump supporters believe that: Biden wants violence. This kind of thing is bizarre, and consistent.

Back to the polls for a moment. One of the most incredible things in the Trump presidency is the lack of movement in polling regarding Trump's approval rating. His range is about 38-43% approval NO MATTER WHAT. For all the good and bad, he stays in that range (within margins of error). It's made me believe what Trump said--again a matter of public record, not opinion:

"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK? It's, like, incredible."

It is incredible. And very, very sad.
Your liberal view is definitely closing your mind to reality. And this is coming from a person who never would vote for trump. 

After watching Maxine Waters Nancy Pelosi the CNN liberal Pundits and numerous other high profile Democrats encourage violence all this time, contribute bail money to violent people who got arrested, it shocked me that someone with your intelligence would actually try to blame the violence on POTUS. 
I also think you’re confusing cause-and-effect. Somebody like trump could only be elected because main stream Americans were tired of the over the top political correctness, cancel culture, race baiting, and generally rapid movement towards liberal things.  The list of those things by the way could go on and on and on but I only have a few minutes for this post.

what the word liberal means to me now is racism, divisiveness, Tribal politics, open borders, pro criminal, anti-police, and generally dishonesty through media narratives.

I may hate Trump, which I do, but I hate those things just as much or more and see them represented by nearly all of the high profile Democrats.  And it’s based on what they say, what the videos show me, and what I see happening around me and not on what someone tells me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 01:47:25 PM
Well, my point is to reduce the current imbalance in the electoral college, which I think gives the less populous states too much of a say. So that was kind of my point--without doing away with it entirely.

Also, the states still have their two senators, which gives a massive advantage to the less populous states in Congress. So I'm not that worried about protecting them.

Texas, as the third most populous state, doesn't have much to worry about, but politically it is more aligned with the more rural states (as are you, 320), so it's not surprising that Texas doesn't like the idea of the popular vote. But a decade or two from now, if it has turned blue (as trends indicate is a possibility), maybe popular opinion in Texas will change.

It's still all academic. None of this is very likely to happen in our lifetimes.
not trying to be confrontational but do you know how a state gets a certain number of electoral votes

in short there is a total of 435 available and they are assigned to each state based on its population as determined by the last census
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 01:49:30 PM
There are 538 electors in the US.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 01:51:21 PM
There are 538 electors in the US.
ok sorry got the number wrong but the point is they are distributed to each state by population

PS after 2 is given to each of the states for the senate
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 01:53:45 PM
In part, yes, but the addition of 2 to each state is not.

So, Wyoming goes from 1 to 3 because of Senators.  California gets a MUCH smaller bump percentagewise.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 01:54:23 PM
In part, yes, but the addition of 2 to each state is not.

So, Wyoming goes from 1 to 3 because of Senators.  California gets a MUCH smaller bump percentagewise.


right I corrected my post
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 01:56:19 PM
In part, yes, but the addition of 2 to each state is not.

So, Wyoming goes from 1 to 3 because of Senators.  California gets a MUCH smaller bump percentagewise.


and the purpose for this is to give each state an equal say along with the other votes based on population

so weve come full circle
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 02, 2020, 01:59:21 PM
I can't even think of any other Mexican restaurants out there.  Are you saying some places have options?

Taco Time, Del Taco, Taco John's... 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYNoQZ5djUA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYNoQZ5djUA)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2020, 01:59:58 PM
Does burger king still sell tacos?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 02:05:07 PM
Right--the way the electoral college assigns votes is exactly as you guys have worked out, and because of those plus 2 it gives a huge advantage to the smaller states' voters relative to the bigger ones.

But the distribution of the 435 members of the house also isn't exact. I believe (I'm not going to look it up, but there is a correct answer), the House's districts are currently divided into 750,000 member districts, except that they are all within a single state. As a result, not all districts are the same size, and I think--though I'm not sure--that this, again results in a moderate bump for the less populous states. In short, whereas in Texas, Flordida, New York, and California, the districts are closer to a uniform 750K, my recollection is that the more rural states have districts that are often a little smaller than that, which, again gives their individual voter a little more say in the presidential election. Not a lot, a little. 

And--again--it's all academic. While, as Cincy notes, some states may vote to assign their electors to the winner of the popular vote, only the more populous states are likely to do that, essentially protecting the current system. And because there are more less populous than more populous states, the electoral college isn't going anywhere.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 02:07:55 PM
Because I larded up my earlier post with too much opinion and such, here it is again--the main point of that post (you can guess which one):

https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe (https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 02:10:22 PM
 While, as Cincy notes, some states may vote to assign their electors to the winner of the popular vote, only the more populous states are likely to do that, essentially protecting the current system. And because there are more less populous than more populous states, the electoral college isn't going anywhere.
Really it is the "blue" states voting for this change.  The "red" states prefer the EC (duh).  

[th]Signatories[/th]
  • (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/Flag_of_Maryland.svg/23px-Flag_of_Maryland.svg.png) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland) Maryland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland)
  • (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/Flag_of_New_Jersey.svg/23px-Flag_of_New_Jersey.svg.png) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey) New Jersey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey)
  • (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/Flag_of_Illinois.svg/23px-Flag_of_Illinois.svg.png) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois) Illinois (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois)
  • (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ef/Flag_of_Hawaii.svg/23px-Flag_of_Hawaii.svg.png) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii) Hawaii (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii)
  • (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/Flag_of_Washington.svg/23px-Flag_of_Washington.svg.png) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_(state)) Washington (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_(state))
  • (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f2/Flag_of_Massachusetts.svg/23px-Flag_of_Massachusetts.svg.png) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts) Massachusetts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts)
  • (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Flag_of_the_District_of_Columbia.svg/23px-Flag_of_the_District_of_Columbia.svg.png) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington,_D.C.) District of Columbia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia)
  • (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Flag_of_Vermont.svg/23px-Flag_of_Vermont.svg.png) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont) Vermont (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont)
  • (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/Flag_of_California.svg/23px-Flag_of_California.svg.png) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California) California (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California)
  • (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/Flag_of_Rhode_Island.svg/19px-Flag_of_Rhode_Island.svg.png) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhode_Island) Rhode Island (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhode_Island)
  • (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Flag_of_New_York.svg/23px-Flag_of_New_York.svg.png) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_(state)) New York (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_(state))
  • (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/96/Flag_of_Connecticut.svg/20px-Flag_of_Connecticut.svg.png) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut) Connecticut (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut)
  • (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/46/Flag_of_Colorado.svg/23px-Flag_of_Colorado.svg.png) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado) Colorado (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado)
  • (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c6/Flag_of_Delaware.svg/23px-Flag_of_Delaware.svg.png) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaware) Delaware (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaware)
  • (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Flag_of_New_Mexico.svg/23px-Flag_of_New_Mexico.svg.png) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mexico) New Mexico (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mexico)
  • (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/Flag_of_Oregon.svg/23px-Flag_of_Oregon.svg.png) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon) Oregon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon)


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 02, 2020, 02:18:45 PM
https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe (https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe)
Responding just to say thanks for pointing me to that...

...and to suggest that everyone here take the time to click that link and read through to the bottom.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 02:19:28 PM
Right--the way the electoral college assigns votes is exactly as you guys have worked out, and because of those plus 2 it gives a huge advantage to the smaller states' voters relative to the bigger ones.

But the distribution of the 435 members of the house also isn't exact. I believe (I'm not going to look it up, but there is a correct answer), the House's districts are currently divided into 750,000 member districts, except that they are all within a single state. As a result, not all districts are the same size, and I think--though I'm not sure--that this, again results in a moderate bump for the less populous states. In short, whereas in Texas, Flordida, New York, and California, the districts are closer to a uniform 750K, my recollection is that the more rural states have districts that are often a little smaller than that, which, again gives their individual voter a little more say in the presidential election. Not a lot, a little.

And--again--it's all academic. While, as Cincy notes, some states may vote to assign their electors to the winner of the popular vote, only the more populous states are likely to do that, essentially protecting the current system. And because there are more less populous than more populous states, the electoral college isn't going anywhere.
you lost me at the number 750,000

not sure what districts you are talking about

or is this a joke that went over my head
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2020, 02:19:52 PM
Because I larded up my earlier post with too much opinion and such, here it is again--the main point of that post (you can guess which one):

https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe (https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe)


It's a good comic.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 02:20:01 PM
Thought on Electroal College in sum:
Voting for electors: cool cool
Voting directly: cool cool
Voting then having vote run through a complicated algorithm that values vote on how many people live near you and whether they vote too similarly: galactically stupid
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 02:21:06 PM
Responding just to say thanks for pointing me to that...

...and to suggest that everyone here take the time to click that link and read through to the bottom.
I would but time is precious to me and frankly I felt my life passing before my eyes about 2/3 of the way through
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 02:22:49 PM
Thought on Electroal College in sum:
Voting for electors: cool cool
Voting directly: cool cool
Voting then having vote run through a complicated algorithm that values vote on how many people live near you and whether they vote too similarly: galactically stupid
well like it or not thats states rights

take it up with the founding fathers
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 02:26:27 PM
you lost me at the number 750,000

not sure what districts you are talking about

or is this a joke that went over my head

The average size of a congressional district based on the 2010 Census apportionment population will be 710,767, more than triple the average district size of 210,328 based on the 1910 Census apportionment, and 63,815 more than the average size based on Census 2000 (646,952).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 02, 2020, 02:27:02 PM
Does burger king still sell tacos?
I don't know.

Jack In The Box does, though.

As for national chain "Mexican" restaurants (and some large state-oriented ones too), I know of:

Taco Bell
Del Taco
El Pollo Loco
Chipotle
Taco Cabana
Qdoba
Cabo Bob's
Moe's Southwest Grill
El Torito
Baja Fresh
Taco Bueno


But Taco Bell is ubiquitous while the others have far fewer restaurants in far fewer geographical locations, so in a national vote, even if Taco Bell only got 1/5 votes compared to the local places, it would still carry the national "election" by a pretty wide margin.








Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 02:27:08 PM
HB,

I'm genuinely sorry that you feel that way. But I don't think anything I can say here will change your mind. That makes me sad, too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 02:37:29 PM
Of course the Constitution isn't static, and what the Founding Fathers did was far from perfect/"correct," nor is what the Founding Fathers did the current law of the land. 

We are in the third longest (I'm pretty sure) period without an amendment to the Constitution, but it is designed for amendment, and has been amended 27 times, mostly for the better.

It will likely be amended again, but I doubt the electoral college goes away.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 02:38:39 PM
well like it or not thats states rights

take it up with the founding fathers
The founding fathers wanted people voting for people who would then vote for President. This Mario Party style competition would not be it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 02:40:14 PM
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1301227209101844480?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 02:44:14 PM

It will likely be amended again, but I doubt the electoral college goes away.
Maybe in time, right now I think the country is too polarized to pass ANY amendment.  I doubt that changes in 20 years very much, maybe.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 02:45:59 PM
One thing that is constant is change. I think a significant political realignment that brings us closer together is among the many possibilities that are on our horizon.

But I'm an optimist.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 02:47:04 PM
The average size of a congressional district based on the 2010 Census apportionment population will be 710,767, more than triple the average district size of 210,328 based on the 1910 Census apportionment, and 63,815 more than the average size based on Census 2000 (646,952).
ok youre talking about population 

well the way electoral votes are distributed the number of votes can increase if population goes up or of course down too

but if the entire state receives votes based on its population what does it matter what the individual dist sizes are
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 02:49:18 PM
If the average district size varies by state, it matters. It's not intended to, but in practice our states can't be divided by an exact number of voters per district, because: math.

My recollection from looking at this is that the less populous states gain a slight advantage from this, but I will freely admit that my recollection has often been faulty.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 02:53:11 PM
If the average district size varies by state, it matters. It's not intended to, but in practice our states can't be divided by an exact number of voters per district, because: math.

My recollection from looking at this is that the less populous states gain a slight advantage from this, but I will freely admit that my recollection has often been faulty.
in theory I dont agree

there is a small state advantage gained by adding 2 to every state for senators but other then that

assuming the electoral votes have been distributed properly everything should be fair
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 02:53:52 PM
I think it's a negligible effect in reality.  

I'd be OK with taking out the Senate contributions to the EC, it makes sense to me.

I think it would be fascinating to see what happens if enough states agree with the popular vote thing.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 02, 2020, 02:54:45 PM
HB,

I'm genuinely sorry that you feel that way. But I don't think anything I can say here will change your mind. That makes me sad, too.
Don’t be sad.

I am very non violent.  I love my fellow humans. I will never hurt a soul except self defense which I will Try to avoid even then. I will continue to adopt a poor family every Christmas, lead a food drive every Thanksgiving, raise money for Breast Cancer every October, mentor young men who need/ want it through big brothers, give of my money and time as generously as possible to those in need, do anything in my power to end racism when I see it... and try really hard To do what I taught my daughters; leave this world and everything I touch better than I found it.

I have great respect for you, your passion, and your opinions despite not necessarily agreeing with them. I welcome the dialogue. 

I am thankful for intelligent, thoughtful people like you in this world who disagree with me, and who make me think from a different perspectives.  I truly appreciate people like you who can express their opinion in a non violent and non threatening way. I don’t respond well to those people- which is one of my many flaws.

I love this flawed but beautiful country and will remain optimistic we can make it better regardless of our current circumstances. 

There is nothing to be sad about with respect to my views.  You clearly want to make this a better place.  So do I.  That’s what is important.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 02:56:28 PM
I think it's a negligible effect in reality. 

I'd be OK with taking out the Senate contributions to the EC, it makes sense to me.

I think it would be fascinating to see what happens if enough states agree with the popular vote thing.


it would cause the candidates to change their strategy on campaigning

Im not sure we would have had a different winner in 2016
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 02:59:15 PM
It would alter campaigning.  I wonder what would happen if the popular vote were within say half a percent.  Do you do a recount?  At what point do you recount?  Is this a compact between states, or not?  How would Californians feel if their electors voted for Republicans?

It would be fun.

Folks living in less populated states could enjoy TV without political ads.

Does Montana have Presidential campaign ads at all now?  Any?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2020, 03:11:41 PM
How to avoid political ads on TV? I have not watched one minute of TV since April 27. Not one.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 03:14:21 PM
How to avoid political ads on TV? I have not watched one minute of TV since April 27. Not one.
I dunno I thought Mike Bloomberg rented space in my house when he was campaigning
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 03:16:46 PM
How to avoid political ads on TV? I have not watched one minute of TV since April 27. Not one.
The wife watches the local news fairly often.  She mostly watches HGTV and the Hallmark channel.

I found some neat stuff on youtube lately, including an example of my shoulder surgery, ouch.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 03:21:04 PM
My timing has been such that I have often been in Wisconsin during the fall of even numbered years. It's always shocking to me how much more political advertising I see there than in the Bay Area.

I don't watch a lot of TV, so maybe that's just another bubble I'm in, but wow, the swing states get hammered with ads.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 02, 2020, 03:27:50 PM
I sometimes watch Diners on Friday evenings

2 Fridays in a row I went to my favorite Steakhouse that had re-opened

didn't turn on the Tele for 3 weeks

speaking of steak, I'm going to Archie's Waeside tonight for a 60 day dry aged steak

on the horrible front, my favorite place to dine in Minneapolis, the Butcher and the Boar closed today.  Due to protesters and pandemic response.

a great place named Brit's Pub a few blocks away from the Butcher was set on fire during the protests, not sure if they will make it back
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 02, 2020, 03:29:40 PM
I dunno I thought Mike Bloomberg rented space in my house when he was campaigning
😂😂😂
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 03:32:19 PM
I sometimes watch Diners on Friday evenings

2 Fridays in a row I went to my favorite Steakhouse that had re-opened

didn't turn on the Tele for 3 weeks

speaking of steak, I'm going to Archie's Waeside tonight for a 60 day dry aged steak

on the horrible front, my favorite place to dine in Minneapolis, the Butcher and the Boar closed today.  Due to protesters and pandemic response.

a great place named Brit's Pub a few blocks away from the Butcher was set on fire during the protests, not sure if they will make it back
you cant even avoid political ads on the internet

almost everytime I watch a utube video I see Biden telling me what a bad job Trump is doing
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 03:39:42 PM
Maybe the Google overlords have our algorithms messed up; YouTube hammers me with Trump ads. Fortunately, there's a "skip" button.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 03:40:53 PM
Watch more porn that messes with their algorithm
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2020, 04:07:45 PM
Kenosha lifted the curfew today. Now, I brace myself.

Just went for a walk around the downtown. Devastating to say the least, but painters have been coming in and painting the plywood with happy things. That helped a lot, getting through the walk.

Hopefully the thugs stay away and the Feds stick around.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 02, 2020, 04:22:09 PM
Maybe the Google overlords have our algorithms messed up; YouTube hammers me with Trump ads. Fortunately, there's a "skip" button.
I would sincerely be interested on your thoughts about the arrest records for people during the Kenosha incidents ( call them what you like)

A very high % of this people arrested were from outside the state and numerous ones from Seattle, Portland and California. 

How should we be thinking about that?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 02, 2020, 04:24:48 PM
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1301227209101844480?s=19
52% said Biden makes them safe - from who?Nurse Cratchett? who will be wiping his backside in 6 months.This is where the Chinese and Russians are trolling Social Media and playing us like a cheap violin
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2020, 04:25:17 PM
I would sincerely be interested on your thoughts about the arrest records for people during the Kenosha incidents ( call them what you like)

A very high % of this people arrested were from outside the state and numerous ones from Seattle, Portland and California.

How should we be thinking about that?
I think the FBI should follow the money. It's coming from somewhere. These people don't work.

About 60% of the arrests in Kenosha were from counties other than Kenosha. Lots of Illinois too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 02, 2020, 04:37:07 PM
Love not being in a swing state to avoid the ads. I mean, my votes has less theoretical impact, but fewer ads. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 05:09:02 PM
We're getting hit with Senate ads as BOTH Senate seats are up.  Bummer.    John Ossoff is running some good ads I think, but his opponent has some good ones as well.

The Super PACs ads are the worst IMHO.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2020, 05:13:59 PM
Hopefully can make some progress here. These people need to see jail time.

https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/watch-now-atf-releases-images-of-persons-of-interest-in-kenosha-arson-fires/article_0118e680-7b12-5e92-906b-34aabac05144.html#tracking-source=home-top-story (https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/watch-now-atf-releases-images-of-persons-of-interest-in-kenosha-arson-fires/article_0118e680-7b12-5e92-906b-34aabac05144.html#tracking-source=home-top-story)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 05:26:10 PM
I think it is POSSIBLE that there is less organization associated with the riots and looting than we might infer.  It's easy to post something on SM "Hey, there's going be protests in X, let's get up there and cause mayhem and loot."

"Cool, I'm with ya."

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 05:28:34 PM
I think the FBI should follow the money. It's coming from somewhere. These people don't work.

About 60% of the arrests in Kenosha were from counties other than Kenosha. Lots of Illinois too.
Y'all got some links?

As an off-hand comment, we know that both far-right and far-left groups are sending people to these protests/counter protests. Most of the population of Wisconsin doesn't live all that far from Kenosha. Milwaukee and Dane Counties are the biggest population centers (or at least among them) and are both within easy driving distance. People coming from those places don't surprise me at all, nor from northern Illinois, including Chicago.

Now, if those people are making up larger portions of the arrest numbers, then yes, that indicates a problem. And what are the arrests for? If it's for not vacating an area, I'm not especially concerned. That's non-violent protest. The *right* kind of protest often involves non-violent disobedience, so I won't lose sleep over that.

If its for property damage, inciting violence, or murder (from northern Illinois, at least), that's a real problem.

Living in San Francisco proper for a few years, I've seen enough protests to know that there is a group of people who won't miss a good opportunity to protest, regardless of the cause (I've only ever participated in a handful of protests). For the causes I've agreed with, those people piss me off. But their existence isn't reason to say all protests they attend are in poor taste.

Unfortunately, those groups seem to be growing, and on both sides of the aisle. I think a lot of what we're seeing in Portland is the result of that--and it's not confined to Portland. And yes, the attacks on property and--even more so--on other people are not acceptable.

And to CD's point, there are people whose goal is to incite rioting, and then there are masses of people, among whom some people lose their minds and start rioting. To Badge's point earlier in this [very long] thread: intentional agitators are a real problem and should be prosecuted as such. That's not to excuse the unintentional rioting (opportunists, rather than instigators)--that's bad, too, and rioters should be held accountable, but it's a qualitatively different thing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 05:33:07 PM
When the protests here went after the sun set, the "opportunists" had their way, the police were trying to manage large protests and looters could run amuck basically.

If I'm a looter, I'm going to be interested in a protest anywhere near me that I can get too, same if I'm an arsonist/rioter type who just enjoys destruction.

When this happens, a city needs curfews IMHO, and enforcement.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 02, 2020, 05:34:38 PM
Living in San Francisco proper for a few years, I've seen enough protests to know that there is a group of people who won't miss a good opportunity to protest, regardless of the cause (I've only ever participated in a handful of protests). For the causes I've agreed with, those people piss me off. But their existence isn't reason to say all protests they attend are in poor taste.
I love that movie!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSwncyv25_0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSwncyv25_0)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 05:37:01 PM
I was a slacktivist.  Never saw that movie.

I do recall a lot of save the whales back in the day, sign this or that petition etc.  Must have worked.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 05:37:39 PM
Following up: I've seen the Kenosha Police's media release on this.

44 cities doesn't tell me much. Someone from Pleasant Prarie is from a different city, but that doesn't indicates busloads of trouble makers coming in. Nor does 102 arrests with home addresses outside of Kenosha. If it were 102 from outside of Chicago in a Chicago protest, that would surprise me more.

The 69 curfew violations are a big "meh."

The 34 "curfew plus additional charges" is an interesting mixed bag: curfew plus possession of a controlled substance (specifically in that number) probably isn't a big deal; curfew plus burglary is.

That's 103 arrests. What are the other 72 arrests for, and where are those folks from, and what are their ties to alt-right or antifa groups?

Those are worthwhile questions, but not ones the media release addresses.

A few more answers here: https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/2020/08/31/jacob-blake-shooting-many-arrests-kenosha-outside-city/3451114001/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/2020/08/31/jacob-blake-shooting-many-arrests-kenosha-outside-city/3451114001/)

Most people from Wisconsin and northern Illinois. That seems normal. A handful from farther away. That seems intriguing. Also, it doesn't say which side those people from farther away were on.

Three on their way to attack police leaders? Prosecute the bejeezus out of those people.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2020, 05:39:24 PM
Y'all got some links?

Really, you can trust me, but...


https://twitter.com/KenoshaPolice/status/1300260991696097280


 (https://twitter.com/KenoshaPolice/status/1300260991696097280)That was through 12:30 PM on Sunday. Other outlets cited places they were from. Many from Washington, Oregon, DC, Illinois, Minnesota, among others. And yes, Chicago and Milwaukee and Madison contributed greatly here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 05:43:37 PM
Sorry, didn't mean to imply I didn't trust you. Per the post I put just above, I was looking for more information about the arrests and at that moment I was about to jump on a work call, so didn't have time to go looking myself.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2020, 05:46:20 PM

Sorry, didn't mean to imply I didn't trust you. Per the post I put just above, I was looking for more information about the arrests and at that moment I was about to jump on a work call, so didn't have time to go looking myself.
The information is out there. Yes, 175 arrests, but it could have been thousands here. No arrests were started until Thursday. There was not enough law enforcement before then. Police watched buildings burn.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 05:48:15 PM
I should also add that protesters/counter protesters with firearms scare the stuffing out of me. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near a protest where people were arming up like that.

But I'm one of them liberal snowflakes that isn't a huge fan of lots of guns all over the place (I am a firearms owner, I've done some hunting, and I served in the Army, so I'm reasonably aware of how firearms work).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 05:59:53 PM
I would vacate the premises if I saw "protesters" with fire arms ASAP.

It raises the possibility of something bad happening quite a bit.  And some folks don't understand their legal rights in each state.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 06:12:19 PM
I was a slacktivist.  Never saw that movie.

I do recall a lot of save the whales back in the day, sign this or that petition etc.  Must have worked.
I'd say...a worldwide ban on whaling. Tough to top that petition
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 06:12:32 PM
This portion of this discussion points to a larger point for me, why is the temperature of these things going up? I know that some people think the liberals are causing it. I've seen the cut-and-paste video DT Jr. put on twitter. I've also seen the things that President and his supporters say. I'm much more concerned about the militant right than the granola-eating, descendants of flower children.

HB is right that I'm more worried about Trump and Fox News than I am about Kathy Griffin and Madonna (see Ted Nugent; Griffin and Nugent are both genuine D-listers). For every Maxine Waters, there is a Mike Bevin, a Clay Higgins, etc.

And I should add that it is never ok to advocate killing political opponents, whether it's some media moron like Johnny Depp or Glen Beck, or a sitting U.S. Senator.

If you want to know why, here are some: https://www.adl.org/media/14107/download (https://www.adl.org/media/14107/download)
https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states (https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states)
https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1283&context=nulr_online (https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1283&context=nulr_online)
https://www.un.org/sc/ctc/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/CTED_Trends_Alert_Extreme_Right-Wing_Terrorism.pdf (https://www.un.org/sc/ctc/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/CTED_Trends_Alert_Extreme_Right-Wing_Terrorism.pdf)
https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2020/07/21/right-wing-terrorism-warning-signs (https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2020/07/21/right-wing-terrorism-warning-signs)
https://www.fesdc.org/fileadmin/user_upload/publications/RightwingPopulism.pdf (https://www.fesdc.org/fileadmin/user_upload/publications/RightwingPopulism.pdf)
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/jihadist-plots-used-be-u-s-europe-s-biggest-terrorist-n1234840 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/jihadist-plots-used-be-u-s-europe-s-biggest-terrorist-n1234840)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 06:15:49 PM
1. We are in a pandemic and people are bored
2. Unemployment is high
3. The president is an idiot and is easy to protest
4. There's a cause that is righteous and has been in the news for years
5. It's pretty easy and cheap to get from one place to another

All in all you get some ripe conditions for malfeasance
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 02, 2020, 06:32:33 PM
This portion of this discussion points to a larger point for me, why is the temperature of these things going up?
Well y'all know my take. 

We have people who live in two different realities, who don't even know each other any more, don't trust each other, and are being actively taught to hate and fear each other. 

One government can't govern two different realities. It can't work. One culture can't satisfy two realities. It can't work. 

So we're literally locked in battle with people who don't even live in our world, over who gets to control both worlds. 

Humanity is breaking, fellas. And I don't see any way out. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2020, 06:37:00 PM
Well y'all know my take.

We have people who live in two different realities, who don't even know each other any more, don't trust each other, and are being actively taught to hate and fear each other.

One government can't govern two different realities. It can't work. One culture can't satisfy two realities. It can't work.

So we're literally locked in battle with people who don't even live in our world, over who gets to control both worlds.

Humanity is breaking, fellas. And I don't see any way out.
The people who do not want a capitalist republic have options elsewhere, right?

I agree about humanity breaking. It's just not good.



Anyway, as for some of the whereabouts of folks...


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/where-are-rioters-coming-from-data-shows
 (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/where-are-rioters-coming-from-data-shows)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 06:41:53 PM
You know the Republican party post Trump is an interesting concept. It was pretty much broken and reformed into his image. But who else fits that image?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 02, 2020, 06:51:19 PM
You know the Republican party post Trump is an interesting concept. It was pretty much broken and reformed into his image. But who else fits that image?
Ivanka.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 06:59:26 PM
Trump's plane full of uniformed people comment is an interesting one--even Laura Ingraham didn't seem too interested in hearing more. Can't wait to see some evidence on that one.

Badge, people who want psuedo-fascist clown shows can look elsewhere, too. And there's always Somalia--the libertarian Disneyland. Most "socialists" I know are called socialists because they want government-run healthcare (as is done in most democratic, capitalist nations), and to focus more government spending on social safety net programs, which requires higher tax rates. Most of those people aren't close to marxists.

As Truman said in 1952 (you can snopes it, it's true):
[Republican Senator Robert] Taft explained that the great issue in this campaign is “creeping socialism.” Now that is the patented trademark of the special interest lobbies. Socialism is a scare word they have hurled at every advance the people have made in the last 20 years.
Socialism is what they called public power.
Socialism is what they called social security.
Socialism is what they called farm price supports.
Socialism is what they called bank deposit insurance.
Socialism is what they called the growth of free and independent labor organizations.
Socialism is their name for almost anything that helps all the people.
When the Republican candidate inscribes the slogan “Down With Socialism” on the banner of his “great crusade,” that is really not what he means at all.
What he really means is, “Down with Progress — down with Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal,” and “down with Harry Truman’s fair Deal.” That is what he means.


Now, to this day many Republicans don't like FDR's New Deal, but it's a pretty big stretch to say that he wasn't 100% American.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 07:05:24 PM
This portion of this discussion points to a larger point for me, why is the temperature of these things going up? I know that some people think the liberals are causing it. 

I think social media has a significant role here, coupled with a clear diversion in "news outlets".  I check various news sites on line daily.  It's two different universes, basically.  And that split has increased among the cable purveyors as they chase audience.

The CBS/ABC/NBC news sites are are generally "OK", if they were all we had there would not be such a divide.  I had no idea back in the day whether my neighbor was liberal or conservative unless we got to know each other a good bit.  Now I see their rants on FB, and at times some craziness, QAnon and beyond, how cops are killing hundreds of thousands of black men each year for no reason, etc.

I also really think the two political parties work on this divide as it gets folks anxious and angry, and then the donate money/time.  An electorate that is sort of blaise about whatever does neither.  

I also think "we" tend to confuse NOISE with NUMBERS.  Some "news" site will publish some event intended to anger us, when in fact it's a rare event, regretable yes, but rare.  Some BLACK man shot some WHITE WOMEN in SC.  Or some WHITE cop shot some BLACK woman in KY.

So, are liberals causing it?  Some are, and so are some conservatives.  We have met the enemy ...

Fortunately, MOST of US are pretty sensible and more moderate than Leftist or Rightist.  You can be a liberal and not a leftist and a conservative and not a racist.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 02, 2020, 07:13:04 PM
What pisses me off is that I have the battle in my soul over my libertarian ideological side that wants to tear down the nanny state and my pragmatic engineer side that just wants things to work well. 

'course, America makes it easy because we have big AND shitty government. So both sides can get their hate on. 

If America is at least going to do some "socialism" [which in the case of America, like most of Europe, will be democratic socialism, not hardcore Marxism], I wish we could at least do it well

We're really not very good at it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 07:13:55 PM
That Fox News link would be a good place to start on a class about how to interpret media. There is some factual information in there: a few cities outside of Wisconsin where people who were arrested came from (at least had on their drivers license). I wasn't arrested at any protests while I was a college student, but if I had been, the arrest record would have said I was from Palo Alto, not Madison. But I wouldn't have been an agitator from out of state in the sense this article is talking about.

But as for establishing out-of-state agitators coming to cause trouble, the article is honest about that: the data it mentions, "has fueled speculation..." And that's all we're really left with.

The article mentions that the Minneapolis mayor's comments about out-of-state people and alt-right people were false, but following the link saying so, it actually only says the out-of-state people comment was false. Which is an interesting contrast with the point of the first article, which is that it's out-of-state agitators causing the problems. The other difference subtly mentioned in the article is whether people are coming from out of state to protest (unquestionably true, particularly in a place like D.C., which is literally ground zero for out-of-state protesters), versus coming from out of state to create chaos and rioting. Those are very different things. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 07:15:40 PM
Most countries in Europe are heavily free market economies.  The notion that Sweden is socialist is simply false, or at least misoverestimated.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 07:26:20 PM
A similar article from a more newsy news source (but certainly one still subject to claims of bias):
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/31/us/george-floyd-protests-white-supremacists-antifa.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/31/us/george-floyd-protests-white-supremacists-antifa.html)

Note how the tone of the article is different, while the topic is very similar.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 07:34:53 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/02/biden-still-ahead-in-the-polls-but-trump-narrows-gap-after-rnc.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/02/biden-still-ahead-in-the-polls-but-trump-narrows-gap-after-rnc.html)

Very very slight possible maybe shift, sort of, perhaps larger in PA.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 07:36:05 PM
...
'course, America makes it easy because we have big AND shitty government. So both sides can get their hate on.

If America is at least going to do some "socialism" [which in the case of America, like most of Europe, will be democratic socialism, not hardcore Marxism], I wish we could at least do it well.

We're really not very good at it.
The bigger it is, the more bureaucracy, the more potential for fraud, waste, and abuse. Oh, and the bigger the problems.

One of our problems is just how big we are. It makes solving problems through any kind of large concerted action harder, but that doesn't mean that the programs don't work. Our military is the envy of the world, though it still has plenty of problems. Our Social Security system is a third-rail of politics because of how popular it is. Are there problems with it (starting with its long term funding)? Absolutely, but it actually works quite well. Same for Medicare, which for all the abuse in it--particularly by private companies that are built on scamming it--it delivers quality health care at lower costs than the private system most of us rely on (FWIW, it's not as big a savings as the Bernie Sanders people would have you believe--probably not close). Our SNAP program gets food to the needy, as does the school lunch program. Do those problems solve poverty? No, but they do deliver the food they are supposed to.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 07:40:27 PM
Things in general work better here than they do in France.  Seriously.

Cue French jokes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 02, 2020, 08:10:08 PM
1. We are in a pandemic and people are bored
2. Unemployment is high
3. The president is an idiot and is easy to protest
4. There's a cause that is righteous and has been in the news for years
5. It's pretty easy and cheap to get from one place to another

All in all you get some ripe conditions for malfeasance
This is quite accurate Sam. Sadly I think people being locked up because of the pandemic helps create somewhat of a perfect storm.

The original cause, the murder of George Floyd, was totally just and I understand completely the protesting that begin there. But it turned into something else.  

this is where I feel the views get divergent. This is where I think the Liberals did not cause this Egged it on in every way you can egg it on.

and I don’t feel they did it because there’s a cause they believe in but they did it because any party trying to unseat an incumbent wants to portray the status quo as as much chaos and bad as possible.  This is where I feel the left has put their politics way before the good of the country both in the cases of violence and also handling of the pandemic.  This does not mean I condone trumps behavior on either of those things.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 02, 2020, 08:26:03 PM
Things in general work better here than they do in France.  Seriously.

Cue French jokes.
That's the biggest bunch of baloney since chaste and fidelity were added to their marriage vows" 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 08:47:25 PM
That's the biggest bunch of baloney since chaste and fidelity were added to their marriage vows"
Key My Fair Lady Line: "The French don't care what they do actually as long as they pronounce it properly"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 02, 2020, 08:51:05 PM
Things in general work better here than they do in France.  Seriously.

Cue French jokes.
Same goes for Italy and Spain.

I denounce the two party system, but countries like those with multi-party systems often find themselves so mired in minor infighting that NO legislation gets passed. 

I'd like to think there's a balance in there somewhere.  But maybe there's not.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 02, 2020, 09:06:58 PM
Exactly. Humanity was a mistake that has outlived its usefulness. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 02, 2020, 09:13:52 PM
Exactly. Humanity was a mistake that has outlived its usefulness.
we had a good run
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 02, 2020, 10:25:19 PM
Exactly. Humanity was a mistake that has outlived its usefulness.
I never saw that coming from you. Lol. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 03, 2020, 09:58:22 AM
Badge, people who want psuedo-fascist clown shows can look elsewhere, too.

And there's always Somalia--the libertarian Disneyland.

Most "socialists" I know are called socialists because they want government-run healthcare (as is done in most democratic, capitalist nations), and to focus more government spending on social safety net programs, which requires higher tax rates. Most of those people aren't close to marxists.
1. Agreed. Let them rot in Hell.

2. Rock on.

3. Government run healthcare? Like the VA? No thank you. 

The D party is moving much farther left. This green new deal nonsense is scary, and real, should the D party take over the Senate and Presidency. Chuck will cave to the the squad because he doesn't want AOC coming after his seat (she will). Anarchists will demand it. $15/hour for anyone, whether they are willing to work, or not.

BLM leaders are self-proclaimed Marxists, so there's that.

So, many of these wishes can be found in China, yes? Except the "green" part, of course.

I don't worry about A2, because the Supreme Court is set for a while, thankfully.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 03, 2020, 10:01:23 AM
I never saw that coming from you. Lol.
seems it should have come from Utee
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 03, 2020, 10:04:37 AM
1. Agreed. Let them rot in Hell.

2. Rock on.

3. Government run healthcare? Like the VA? No thank you.

The D party is moving much farther left. This green new deal nonsense is scary, and real, should the D party take over the Senate and Presidency. Chuck will cave to the the squad because he doesn't want AOC coming after his seat (she will). Anarchists will demand it. $15/hour for anyone, whether they are willing to work, or not.

BLM leaders are self-proclaimed Marxists, so there's that.

So, many of these wishes can be found in China, yes? Except the "green" part, of course.

I don't worry about A2, because the Supreme Court is set for a while, thankfully.
The district attorney in California who wants us to consider the needs of arrested looters before we prosecute them is an example of what I think of as socialism.  And I’m sorry if anyone disagrees but I think that’s absolute bullshit.
The Senate in Virginia that just reduced the act of assaulting a police officer down from a felony to a misdemeanor is another example.  To me that’s the socialist movement and absolute bullshit


https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-prosecutor-tells-prosecutors-to-consider-looters-needs-when-considering-charges

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 03, 2020, 10:13:46 AM
cornsider the needs of looters???

apparently, they need a hard bed in a jail cell and some jail food
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 03, 2020, 10:59:21 AM
I never saw that coming from you. Lol.
Humanity isn't capable of emotionally handling what we've created. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 03, 2020, 11:01:37 AM
If you go to the CFBarea51 home page at the top there is an old picture from prolly the 20's anyone know what stadium & team?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 03, 2020, 11:02:14 AM
Humanity isn't capable of emotionally handling what we've created.

On earth, or just the USA?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 03, 2020, 11:29:44 AM
On earth, or just the USA?
On earth. It goes back to what I was saying about constructing our own realities. Our brains are not capable of handling the level of information overload of the world, so by definition we have to filter a lot of it out. 

So what we do is filter out anything that makes us feel bad or scared, i.e. if you look at that Oatmeal comic that SF posted, it highlights that humans neurologically see any uncomfortable information as a threat. Not "something to think about", but it provokes a literal fear & anger response. Fight or Flight.  

So we filter in anything that makes us feel warm and fuzzy and releases dopamine. Which means things we already agree with and fit our worldview. I.e. confirmation bias. 

Back in the old days of 3 nightly news broadcasts by 3 relatively homogenous networks, there was a way around this. There was one "reality" and if it didn't fit your worldview, someone would smack you upside the head and tell you to deal with it. It didn't even matter if that reality was "true", what mattered was that it was uniform and shared. 

But now there is SO much information, it's all readily available, that you can literally tailor the reality around you into a bubble that exactly fits the contours of your own personal confirmation bias monster. And the world is desperately trying to cater to it, because that's how you get clicks, and by getting clicks, you get ad revenue. So you've got competing 24/7 news channels that each spit out their differently-biased information based on what market segment they are targeting.

But even worse, literally every web site you go to, every news site you visit, everything you do online is trying to predict based on your cookies and histories what you're most likely to click on (red meat for your confirmation bias monster) so it's actively showing you the things you want to believe in your reality and actively filtering out the things you don't want--without you even having to do the work yourself. 

Then it goes even deeper, because the farther down that rabbit hole you go, the more insular and "ingroup" your beliefs go. That's when you start getting into conspiracy theory territory. Because you've already identified which "team" you're on, and when your team starts claiming that the earth is flat, or that the CIA created AIDS to kill black people, or that China engineered this virus to harm the west, or that Bill Gates is going to microchip people with a COVID vaccine, you're faced with again a "fight or flight" question--do I accept this belief or do I get thrown out of my ingroup? Well, in most cases, you talk yourself into a belief that you'd never rationally hold and then find yourself expressing the same pressure on others within your ingroup to hold that same belief. Conspiracy theorists prey on human tendencies because we all WANT to believe that we have special knowledge that others don't. So we are ripe for the picking to believe the things "they" don't want you to know. 

So what happens when you're confronted with someone from a different reality? You cannot even fathom how they might believe what they do, because it sounds like facts that are wholly made up out of nowhere and they CLEARLY do not conform to EVERYTHING you've read on a subject, so they must be crazy or stupid. And you pat yourself on the back for being so rational and right without realizing that to them, you sound equally crazy or stupid. 

This isn't a problem with America or Americans. It's quite literally worldwide, and it's so ingrained into everything that makes us human that I am quite literally faced with crippling depression when I think about the future of the human race. 

We're a bunch of upjumped monkeys who think we're hot shit, and I feel like we're getting closer and closer to doing something that will put a stop to this little "humanity" experiment once and for all. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 03, 2020, 11:39:35 AM
bwar youre not smoking California's finest this morning are ya

far out man
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 03, 2020, 11:44:46 AM
bwar youre not smoking California's finest this morning are ya

far out man
Man, I should try some of that stuff... Might help me with my anger and depression. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 03, 2020, 11:46:51 AM


We're a bunch of upjumped monkeys who think we're hot shit, and I feel like we're getting closer and closer to doing something that will put a stop to this little "humanity" experiment once and for all.

Greetings Professor Falken.  I had no idea that bwar was your screen name.  :)

"Extinction is part of the natural order... And when we go, nature will start again. With the bees, probably. Nature knows when to give up."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht6CkMG25VE

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 03, 2020, 11:48:21 AM
I see why POTUS is claiming there will be voter fraud...

...he just asked the people of NC to commit it (https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/09/03/president-just-committed-felony-trump-tells-nc-residents-vote-twice-openly). 

(https://i.imgur.com/tIbi3bI.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 03, 2020, 11:50:31 AM
bwar youre not smoking California's finest this morning are ya

far out man
Might be getting into some of his fine suds,just turn off the TV - be surprised how peaceful thing get
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 03, 2020, 11:53:37 AM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht6CkMG25VE
Having discovered the concept of mutual assured destruction ("WINNER: NONE"), the computer tells Falken that it has concluded that nuclear war is "a strange game" in which "the only winning move is not to play." WOPR relinquishes control of NORAD and the missiles and offers to play "a nice game of chess."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 03, 2020, 11:57:42 AM
Greetings Professor Falken.  I had no idea that bwar was your screen name.  :)

"Extinction is part of the natural order... And when we go, nature will start again. With the bees, probably. Nature knows when to give up."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht6CkMG25VE


flush the bombers and take us to defcon 3
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 03, 2020, 12:03:00 PM

We're a bunch of upjumped monkeys who think we're hot shit, and I feel like we're getting closer and closer to doing something that will put a stop to this little "humanity" experiment once and for all.
We're apes, not monkeys.  Pet peeve.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 03, 2020, 12:23:27 PM
We're apes, not monkeys.  Pet peeve.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lczMu-UUcc
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 03, 2020, 01:34:30 PM
Might be getting into some of his fine suds,just turn off the TV - be surprised how peaceful thing get
and turn off the smart phone and the internet
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 03, 2020, 01:40:36 PM
The MJ #23 show "Last Dance: is interesting.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 03, 2020, 01:44:12 PM
Scott Frost has the 16th-best contract in college football, according to this ranking.

Better than Ferentz

https://hkm.com/football/#text-2 (https://hkm.com/football/#text-2)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on September 03, 2020, 03:20:10 PM
flush the bombers and take us to defcon 3
Put X in the center square.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 03, 2020, 03:25:14 PM
Put X in the center square.
that one took me a minute but I finally got it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 03, 2020, 03:40:18 PM
On earth. It goes back to what I was saying about constructing our own realities. Our brains are not capable of handling the level of information overload of the world, so by definition we have to filter a lot of it out.

So what we do is filter out anything that makes us feel bad or scared, i.e. if you look at that Oatmeal comic that SF posted, it highlights that humans neurologically see any uncomfortable information as a threat. Not "something to think about", but it provokes a literal fear & anger response. Fight or Flight. 

So we filter in anything that makes us feel warm and fuzzy and releases dopamine. Which means things we already agree with and fit our worldview. I.e. confirmation bias.

Back in the old days of 3 nightly news broadcasts by 3 relatively homogenous networks, there was a way around this. There was one "reality" and if it didn't fit your worldview, someone would smack you upside the head and tell you to deal with it. It didn't even matter if that reality was "true", what mattered was that it was uniform and shared.

But now there is SO much information, it's all readily available, that you can literally tailor the reality around you into a bubble that exactly fits the contours of your own personal confirmation bias monster. And the world is desperately trying to cater to it, because that's how you get clicks, and by getting clicks, you get ad revenue. So you've got competing 24/7 news channels that each spit out their differently-biased information based on what market segment they are targeting.

But even worse, literally every web site you go to, every news site you visit, everything you do online is trying to predict based on your cookies and histories what you're most likely to click on (red meat for your confirmation bias monster) so it's actively showing you the things you want to believe in your reality and actively filtering out the things you don't want--without you even having to do the work yourself.

Then it goes even deeper, because the farther down that rabbit hole you go, the more insular and "ingroup" your beliefs go. That's when you start getting into conspiracy theory territory. Because you've already identified which "team" you're on, and when your team starts claiming that the earth is flat, or that the CIA created AIDS to kill black people, or that China engineered this virus to harm the west, or that Bill Gates is going to microchip people with a COVID vaccine, you're faced with again a "fight or flight" question--do I accept this belief or do I get thrown out of my ingroup? Well, in most cases, you talk yourself into a belief that you'd never rationally hold and then find yourself expressing the same pressure on others within your ingroup to hold that same belief. Conspiracy theorists prey on human tendencies because we all WANT to believe that we have special knowledge that others don't. So we are ripe for the picking to believe the things "they" don't want you to know.

So what happens when you're confronted with someone from a different reality? You cannot even fathom how they might believe what they do, because it sounds like facts that are wholly made up out of nowhere and they CLEARLY do not conform to EVERYTHING you've read on a subject, so they must be crazy or stupid. And you pat yourself on the back for being so rational and right without realizing that to them, you sound equally crazy or stupid.

This isn't a problem with America or Americans. It's quite literally worldwide, and it's so ingrained into everything that makes us human that I am quite literally faced with crippling depression when I think about the future of the human race.

We're a bunch of upjumped monkeys who think we're hot shit, and I feel like we're getting closer and closer to doing something that will put a stop to this little "humanity" experiment once and for all.
A very well articulated post.  Very accurate as to the world today.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 03, 2020, 05:05:26 PM
flush the bombers and take us to defcon 3
I have to admit....I assume you're related to that general barking out orders with the chaw in his cheek.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 03, 2020, 05:06:23 PM
The MJ #23 show "Last Dance: is interesting.
You're about 1 pandemic behind the rest of us.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 03, 2020, 05:16:42 PM
I have to admit....I assume you're related to that general barking out orders with the chaw in his cheek.
actually more then you know
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 03, 2020, 05:16:51 PM
You're about 1 pandemic behind the rest of us.
😂
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 03, 2020, 05:27:34 PM
I watched Lang Lang on youtube last night.  Pretty impressive, to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n050RT8Ad-s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n050RT8Ad-s)

The wife wanted to go, but I was too late getting tickets.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 03, 2020, 05:30:57 PM
no masks?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 03, 2020, 05:34:20 PM
It was 2018, we didn't have the dreaded lurgy back then.  We were new to town, relatively.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 03, 2020, 07:32:57 PM
The man we need on the wall

https://twitter.com/kathrynw5/status/1301640378659950592?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 03, 2020, 07:37:22 PM
Thanks MS I needed a Trump bashing fix
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 03, 2020, 07:43:37 PM
The man we need on the wall

https://twitter.com/kathrynw5/status/1301640378659950592?s=19
Fake news.  

In real news today the individual with by far the worst performance during the pandemic, Governor Cuomo of New York, actually threatened violence against Trump if he were to go back to New York and blamed him for New York’s Horrible covid performance. 
When I see stuff like that it’s hard for me to take any Democrat seriously.

meanwhile there aren’t enough moving companies in New York to handle the people that are moving out of that state LOL
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 03, 2020, 07:47:26 PM
Fake news. 

In real news today the individual with by far the worst performance during the pandemic, Governor Cuomo of New York, actually threatened violence against Trump if he were to go back to New York and blamed him for New York’s Horrible covid performance.
When I see stuff like that it’s hard for me to take any Democrat seriously.

meanwhile there aren’t enough moving companies in New York to handle the people that are moving out of that state LOL
I figured as such

They know they are in trouble and have to come up with this crap but they cant lay a glove on him
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 03, 2020, 07:48:11 PM
and turn off the smart phone and the internet
What is this smart phone you speak of?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 03, 2020, 07:50:57 PM
Fake news. 

In real news today the individual with by far the worst performance during the pandemic, Governor Cuomo of New York, actually threatened violence against Trump if he were to go back to New York and blamed him for New York’s Horrible covid performance.
When I see stuff like that it’s hard for me to take any Democrat seriously.

meanwhile there aren’t enough moving companies in New York to handle the people that are moving out of that state LOL
Deflection. Not a thing in that entire story had to do with Democrats, New York, the pandemic, or Cuomo. Great attempt to change the subject.

So as long as you say POTUS' two favorite words, "Fake news", you can dismiss the article without addressing a single thing in it and progress to attacking Democrats on completely different subjects. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 03, 2020, 07:56:03 PM
Deflection. Not a thing in that entire story had to do with Democrats, New York, the pandemic, or Cuomo. Great attempt to change the subject.

So as long as you say POTUS' two favorite words, "Fake news", you can dismiss the article without addressing a single thing in it and progress to attacking Democrats on completely different subjects.
youre theory has one flaw

It was tweeted by a fake news dem reporter
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 03, 2020, 07:56:23 PM
Deflection. Not a thing in that entire story had to do with Democrats, New York, the pandemic, or Cuomo. Great attempt to change the subject.

So as long as you say POTUS' two favorite words, "Fake news", you can dismiss the article without addressing a single thing in it and progress to attacking Democrats on completely different subjects.
True. Because it is BS.  Which means- the original post was the real deflection. 

maybe it’s to deflect Pelosi getting busted being the worlds biggest hypocrite on Covid? Maybe it’s deflect what Cuomo said today which makes him look like a real ass since he completely failed in every aspect of Covid? And is fomenting violence? Or maybe it’s many of our large city mayors having protesters in their own yards?

some random post from a person I don’t know where trust claiming Trump said something or other? And you expect anyone to take that seriously?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 03, 2020, 07:57:37 PM
youre theory has one flaw

It was tweeted by a fake news dem reporter
So shoot the messenger?

Did you actually read the article in the Altantic, or are you just dismissing it out of hand without having read it?

Edit: you do realize that the person who Sam quoted in his tweet isn't the writer of the article, right?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 03, 2020, 07:57:51 PM
The tweet is quoting a piece in The Atlantic
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 03, 2020, 08:03:35 PM
True. Because it is BS.  Which means- the original post was the real deflection. 

maybe it’s to deflect Pelosi getting busted being the worlds biggest hypocrite on Covid? Maybe it’s deflect what Cuomo said today which makes him look like a real ass since he completely failed in every aspect of Covid? And is fomenting violence? Or maybe it’s many of our large city mayors having protesters in their own yards?

some random post from a person I don’t know where trust claiming Trump said something or other? And you expect anyone to take that seriously?
"Some random post from a person I don't know".

It's not a random post. The Atlantic probably falls on the left side of the spectrum, but if you read the article, you can at least see an attempt at actual investigative journalism. 

If you read the article, this is not something that just arrived today as a deflection from something Cuomo said. If you read the article, you can see that the amount of work that went into it was probably days, if not weeks, to talk to sources and develop the article. 

I feel like we're in an alternate version of The Emporer's New Clothes. Where instead of the crowd eventually realizing that the innocent child is correct for saying the Emporer is naked, they beat him to death. Not because they don't think the Emporer is naked--but because it's too painful to address the fact that they fawned over a naked Emporer and some little child has hurt them deeply by pointing out their error.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 03, 2020, 08:07:13 PM
bwar you are on a roll


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWxgfTMLtc0
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 03, 2020, 08:09:17 PM
"Some random post from a person I don't know".

It's not a random post. The Atlantic probably falls on the left side of the spectrum, but if you read the article, you can at least see an attempt at actual investigative journalism.

If you read the article, this is not something that just arrived today as a deflection from something Cuomo said. If you read the article, you can see that the amount of work that went into it was probably days, if not weeks, to talk to sources and develop the article.

I feel like we're in an alternate version of The Emporer's New Clothes. Where instead of the crowd eventually realizing that the innocent child is correct for saying the Emporer is naked, they beat him to death. Not because they don't think the Emporer is naked--but because it's too painful to address the fact that they fawned over a naked Emporer and some little child has hurt them deeply by pointing out their error.
I feel the same.  I have never agreed with anything in the Atlantic- and I hear Trump say stupid things often.  But I also see, multiple times Daily- fake news reported about him ( like CNN reporting he had mini- strokes) or complete twisting of his words.

Anything on social media without verification is almost certainly fake.  I can’t conceive that you can’t see that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 03, 2020, 08:09:51 PM
Neither of you have--or will--actually click the link, will you?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 03, 2020, 08:10:45 PM
I feel the same.  I have never agreed with anything in the Atlantic- and I hear Trump say stupid things often.  But I also see, multiple times Daily- fake news reported about him ( like CNN reporting he had mini- strokes) or complete twisting of his words.

Anything on social media without verification is almost certainly fake.  I can’t conceive that you can’t see that.
Someone tweeting about an article in the Atlantic doesn't mean it's "on social media". It means the original Article--which you can agree or disagree with--is being SPREAD on social media.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 03, 2020, 08:11:24 PM
Neither of you have--or will--actually click the link, will you?
I did.  It changed nothing for me.  

I don’t care how much you hate this man, and I don’t care how often he screws up with his Twitter or his big fat mouth. You cannot possibly make a reasonable case that he has been anything but 100 supportive of our military in every way possible.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 03, 2020, 08:12:40 PM
didnt have to cause I know who Kathryn Watson is and who she works for
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 03, 2020, 08:15:10 PM
You don’t have to read it longhorn. As usual it’s based on “multiple sources“ and “for people with first-hand knowledge“

Sound familiar?   Collusion? Cavanaugh? Impeachment?

Anonymous sources and multiple people close to the situation, yeah right.  

Meanwhile we have one of the most influential Democrats in the country fomenting violence openly to the media today. What do you Democrats think about that?  I know I know, it’s either Travis fault or that’s not what he was doing LOL
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 03, 2020, 08:17:35 PM
Someone tweeting about an article in the Atlantic doesn't mean it's "on social media". It means the original Article--which you can agree or disagree with--is being SPREAD on social media.
Yes just like the article the other day that was being spread saying that Trump had had many strokes LOL. That to head “multiple sources close to the situation”
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 03, 2020, 08:19:04 PM
I did.  It changed nothing for me. 

I don’t care how much you hate this man, and I don’t care how often he screws up with his Twitter or his big fat mouth. You cannot possibly make a reasonable case that he has been anything but 100 supportive of our military in every way possible.
That must be why Mattis is such a big fan
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 03, 2020, 08:21:37 PM
That must be why Mattis is such a big fan
Well you have your opinion and I will have mine.

I have no data just anecdotal information that I receive from military people that I know in the real world.  They’re pretty universal and their support for Trump and distain for Obama who they felt weakened in the military and weakened our perception around the world.

His 8 year apology tour and “ leading from behind” was gross 


Also don’t you guys realize how much fake stuff continues to be said about POTUS? Don’t you realize what a high percentage of the stuff out there is completely BS? Why do you ask a prize when even people like me who don’t care for the man defend him against random, apparently made up stuff with no named sources or authenticity?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 03, 2020, 08:24:57 PM
That must be why Mattis is such a big fan
Sam... 

Mattis is a loser. Just like Kelly. Just ask Trump. He'll tell you. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 03, 2020, 08:26:00 PM
I do notice you never want to comment on the bullshit coming out of Cuomos mouth today or the hypocrisy of Pelosi which are both hot news items. You always want to focus on POTUS

Deflection or denial?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 03, 2020, 08:34:47 PM
I do notice you never want to comment on the bullshit coming out of Cuomos mouth today or the hypocrisy of Pelosi which are both hot news items. You always want to focus on POTUS

Deflection or denial?
I think it would be a hoot if Cuomo would be visited by the authorities to investigate a possible threat
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 03, 2020, 09:07:18 PM
I expect a close election.  I don't really care much who wins really.  I think four more years of Trump would be more entertaining, so there is that.

On the other hand, Biden is entertaining in a different way, to the extent he would actually be President in real terms.
You should read Robert Heinlein's short story "Year of the Jackpot." (http://amateur ecdysiast)

You and Potiphar Breen have some things in common.  Not an amateur ecdysiast, however.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 03, 2020, 09:11:55 PM
Unfortunately I believe this election may not be decided for long after Election Day. 

Also- this may be decided in court. 

They say over 150 million people may be voting in this election and as many as 80 million will be mail in ballots. Not absentee balance mind you which are validated but just raw mail in ballots.   Like virtually every election that’s been done by mail this year it’s going to be a freaking nightmare.  

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 03, 2020, 09:23:39 PM
In other news today, Biden made a Freudian slip/Gaffe.  

This one is on video- no “ sources close to the situation “

He said “ I can’t release the rest of my tax plan or else they’ll shoot me”

Then he went and met with the father  of the Kenosha Police shooting, he himself ( the father) a close follower of Louis Farrakhan and publisher of racist tweets galore, and open hater of Jews.  Nice work Joe. 

And then Kamala Harris finally denounced the violence in Portland, only two weeks after she openly worked to drum up support for bail money for those arrested for rioting.  

I know I know- i’m not paying enough attention to Orange Man Bad. 

What was it he supposedly said today? Where is that article from the Atlantic? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 03, 2020, 09:24:33 PM
Quote
SFBadger96: I am--unabashedly--liberal. That impacts my worldview, undoubtedly. I'm also a realist who understands something about how our constitutional republic is supposed to work, which means I tend to back centrists...left-leaning centrists. To be fair, more than centrists, I back people who I think are effective at governing within our constitutional system (with a left-leaning perspective). One of the saving graces of the Trump presidency (in my opinion) is how incompetent he and his adherents are. Thank goodness. But my big fear is how effectively he's turned us even more on each other, and how no matter how crazy the things he and his lieutenants say, they become part of his followers beliefs shortly thereafter--even when they are clearly projections.
Reminds me of the rebuttal to the evergreen claim of tyrants and would-be tyrants that "to make an omelet, you've got to break some eggs."


The rebuttal: "Where's the omelet?"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 03, 2020, 09:25:50 PM
I do notice you never want to comment on the bullshit coming out of Cuomos mouth today or the hypocrisy of Pelosi which are both hot news items. You always want to focus on POTUS

Deflection or denial?
Cuomo is so far out of my worldview that I don't even have a clue what you're talking about. I didn't even know who he was before COVID. 

Regarding Pelosi, I was going to comment on that when it happened but when I read it on this site I saw that the conversation was already about 7 pages beyond it and it barely came up again.

Pelosi's non-mask wearing is egregious. Then, the way she's doubling down on it is shameful. 


It's complete and utter crap. For her to blame them for her not wearing a mask is putting blame on them for HER lack of responsibility. And when she attacks POTUS on basically everything related to COVID while she is privately spurning the regulations where she lives? Hypocrite.

So I don't know anything about the Cuomo situation, but I'm absolutely saying Pelosi is a holier-than-thou, rules-apply-to-thee-but-not-to-me hypocrite. 

Note: that doesn't excuse POTUS for the complete abdication of leadership during this pandemic. But Pelosi absolutely deserves every bit of criticism she's getting for this. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 03, 2020, 09:27:00 PM
I gave up on our System years ago, just gave up.  I don't care who wins.  I try and adjust my personal things as well as I can given whatever outcome.

Other than that, it's out of my hands, and I know it. 

Every Presidential cycle we seem to have options worse than they last.  I have not voted FOR a candidate with any enthusiasm since Bill Bradley was running.
For whom did you vote when B. Bradley was running?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 03, 2020, 09:31:03 PM
I should point pyre the Cuomo thing is again evidence for the "alternate realities" hypothesis. 

I can only think it's all over your news sources, feed, etc. And yet I literally didn't even know that there was an uproar.

How can we exist as a nation when we don't live in the same in the same mental nation? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 03, 2020, 09:32:24 PM
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/trump-cant-win/ (https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/trump-cant-win/)

Kinda funny ...

Whatever the polls say now (and right now they show Hillary ahead (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html)), the long-term patterns of American politics tell us that Trump is not going to get millions more votes than Romney did, and he’s not going to carry enough swing states to overcome the historic pattern of Democratic advantage. Hillary will win in November, and she will be sworn in as our next president on January 20.
Trump got a bit less than 2 million more votes than Romney did.
Hillary got less than 100k fewer votes than Obama did.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 03, 2020, 09:39:23 PM
Cuomo is so far out of my worldview that I don't even have a clue what you're talking about. I didn't even know who he was before COVID.

Regarding Pelosi, I was going to comment on that when it happened but when I read it on this site I saw that the conversation was already about 7 pages beyond it and it barely came up again.

Pelosi's non-mask wearing is egregious. Then, the way she's doubling down on it is shameful.

  • First, as I understand it, she was engaging in a behavior (indoor haircut) that wasn't allowed in the place where she was doing it.
  • Then, she blamed the salon for not forcing her to wear a mask. That's BS. Unless someone held her down and pulled her mask off her as she walked in, she had the ability to wear a mask. When I went to the clubfitter to drop off my clubs, and when I went to go pick them up, BOTH times the guy helping me wasn't wearing a mask--but I was. I wasn't looking for an excuse not to wear it. And I'm a private citizen, not the Speaker of the House who should set a good example.
  • Then when caught she called it a "setup". If she'd worn a mask, that "setup" wouldn't have had a "payoff".

It's complete and utter crap. For her to blame them for her not wearing a mask is putting blame on them for HER lack of responsibility. And when she attacks POTUS on basically everything related to COVID while she is privately spurning the regulations where she lives? Hypocrite.

So I don't know anything about the Cuomo situation, but I'm absolutely saying Pelosi is a holier-than-thou, rules-apply-to-thee-but-not-to-me hypocrite.

Note: that doesn't excuse POTUS for the complete abdication of leadership during this pandemic. But Pelosi absolutely deserves every bit of criticism she's getting for this.


Thanks for manning up. it doesn’t excuse anything POTUS 

this thread tends to get away from politics until somebody always throws grenades at POTUS out of the blue.  All I’m saying is if we’re going to do that let’s be equal opportunity criticizers and identify everyone of these MFers for doing all the same things that POTUS is getting creamed for.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 03, 2020, 09:40:29 PM
Cuomo is so far out of my worldview that I don't even have a clue what you're talking about. I didn't even know who he was before COVID.

Regarding Pelosi, I was going to comment on that when it happened but when I read it on this site I saw that the conversation was already about 7 pages beyond it and it barely came up again.

Pelosi's non-mask wearing is egregious. Then, the way she's doubling down on it is shameful.

  • First, as I understand it, she was engaging in a behavior (indoor haircut) that wasn't allowed in the place where she was doing it.
  • Then, she blamed the salon for not forcing her to wear a mask. That's BS. Unless someone held her down and pulled her mask off her as she walked in, she had the ability to wear a mask. When I went to the clubfitter to drop off my clubs, and when I went to go pick them up, BOTH times the guy helping me wasn't wearing a mask--but I was. I wasn't looking for an excuse not to wear it. And I'm a private citizen, not the Speaker of the House who should set a good example.
  • Then when caught she called it a "setup". If she'd worn a mask, that "setup" wouldn't have had a "payoff".

It's complete and utter crap. For her to blame them for her not wearing a mask is putting blame on them for HER lack of responsibility. And when she attacks POTUS on basically everything related to COVID while she is privately spurning the regulations where she lives? Hypocrite.

So I don't know anything about the Cuomo situation, but I'm absolutely saying Pelosi is a holier-than-thou, rules-apply-to-thee-but-not-to-me hypocrite.

Note: that doesn't excuse POTUS for the complete abdication of leadership during this pandemic. But Pelosi absolutely deserves every bit of criticism she's getting for this.


Pelosi would have been much better off if she just say I goofed and was mistaken it wont happen again

but she is so intolerable of everything Trump that she just cant do it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 03, 2020, 09:42:56 PM
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2020/09/03/andrew-cuomo-trump-need-army-if-he-returns-new-york/5702152002/

To me this is pretty close to a direct call for violence, and complete abdication of his own huge mismanagement in his state, of the pandemic. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 03, 2020, 09:49:01 PM
The man we need on the wall

https://twitter.com/kathrynw5/status/1301640378659950592?s=19
https://www.foxnews.com/media/atlantic-story-trump-dead-soldiers

Anonymous sources. I hold you to a higher standard than that Sam.   Please.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 03, 2020, 09:49:40 PM
I should point pyre the Cuomo thing is again evidence for the "alternate realities" hypothesis.

I can only think it's all over your news sources, feed, etc. And yet I literally didn't even know that there was an uproar.

How can we exist as a nation when we don't live in the same in the same mental nation?
Once 'alternative facts' became a thing, the ensuing avalanche has been inevitable.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 03, 2020, 09:50:42 PM
Responding just to say thanks for pointing me to that...

...and to suggest that everyone here take the time to click that link and read through to the bottom.
That--https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe (https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe)--was good.
Even though it was written from a leftish point of view.
Had it been otherwise, different, though equally false, core beliefs would have been challenged.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 03, 2020, 09:51:07 PM
See, we have HB attacking the multiple (4, I believe) anonymous sources and not the president.  Because he can't.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 03, 2020, 09:51:11 PM
To sum up

Pelosi received illicit haircut, blamed barber
Cuomo reacts to news that Trump will "defund" NYC for being "lawless" by saying he better bring an army when he comes to NYC
Trump calls armed forces casualties suckers and losers
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 03, 2020, 09:52:07 PM
To sum up

Pelosi received illicit haircut, blamed barber
Cuomo reacts to news that Trump will "defund" NYC for being "lawless" by saying he better bring an army when he comes to NYC
Trump calls armed forces casualties suckers and losers
Yep.  

And only one of them is a president, seeking re-election. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 03, 2020, 09:55:54 PM
Thought on Electroal College in sum:
Voting for electors: cool cool
Voting directly: cool cool
Voting then having vote run through a complicated algorithm that values vote on how many people live near you and whether they vote too similarly: galactically stupid
Popular vote/mass democracy/mob rule: stupid.
And there's no point voting for electors if the electors don't represent the "people who live near you"--i.e., the states.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 03, 2020, 09:58:38 PM
To sum up

Pelosi received illicit haircut, blamed barber
Cuomo reacts to news that Trump will "defund" NYC for being "lawless" by saying he better bring an army when he comes to NYC
Trump calls armed forces casualties suckers and losers
do you really think Trump would say something like that

Pelosi and Cuomo are on tape so its proof for Trump is these unknown sources
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 03, 2020, 10:03:18 PM
Popular vote/mass democracy/mob rule: stupid.
And there's no point voting for electors if the electors don't represent the "people who live near you"--i.e., the states.
I mean ok, but what we have now is mob rule channeled through a stupid algorithm to reward geographic quirks. It's clearly stupid and both against our founding principals and against democracy. The electoral college was supposed to be a check on the direct vote. What we have now is not a check. It is a reward system for people who can full some of the people all of the time. Like...checks notes...a certain president.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 03, 2020, 10:08:37 PM
I mean ok, but what we have now is mob rule channeled through a stupid algorithm to reward geographic quirks. It's clearly stupid and both against our founding principals and against democracy. The electoral college was supposed to be a check on the direct vote. What we have now is not a check. It is a reward system for people who can full some of the people all of the time. Like...checks notes...a certain president.
So you think Trump won cause he fools people under the electoral system but wouldnt fool anyone if popular vote is used

again in the 2016 election NY and Calif accounted for the popular vote diff 

I really dont want NY and California picking my President
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 03, 2020, 10:10:09 PM
do you really think Trump would say something like that

Pelosi and Cuomo are on tape so its proof for Trump is these unknown sources
Hmm, would the guy who disparaged John McCain's military service, and who General Mattis more or less called the worst president, and who mocked a disabled man, would this person be capable of these comments? Hmm I dunno.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 03, 2020, 10:23:59 PM
Hmm, would the guy who disparaged John McCain's military service, and who General Mattis more or less called the worst president, and who mocked a disabled man, would this person be capable of these comments? Hmm I dunno.
fair point on McCain but what Mattis thinks could just be sour grapes and has little merit to me

not sure what disabled man Trump mocked but there a good chance his mocking if it happened was not aimed towards his disability
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 03, 2020, 10:30:53 PM
Trump's plane full of uniformed people comment is an interesting one--even Laura Ingraham didn't seem too interested in hearing more. Can't wait to see some evidence on that one.

Badge, people who want psuedo-fascist clown shows can look elsewhere, too. And there's always Somalia--the libertarian Disneyland. Most "socialists" I know are called socialists because they want government-run healthcare (as is done in most democratic, capitalist nations), and to focus more government spending on social safety net programs, which requires higher tax rates. Most of those people aren't close to marxists.

As Truman said in 1952 (you can snopes it, it's true):
[Republican Senator Robert] Taft explained that the great issue in this campaign is “creeping socialism.” Now that is the patented trademark of the special interest lobbies. Socialism is a scare word they have hurled at every advance the people have made in the last 20 years.
Socialism is what they called public power.
Socialism is what they called social security.
Socialism is what they called farm price supports.
Socialism is what they called bank deposit insurance.
Socialism is what they called the growth of free and independent labor organizations.
Socialism is their name for almost anything that helps all the people.
When the Republican candidate inscribes the slogan “Down With Socialism” on the banner of his “great crusade,” that is really not what he means at all.
What he really means is, “Down with Progress — down with Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal,” and “down with Harry Truman’s fair Deal.” That is what he means.


Now, to this day many Republicans don't like FDR's New Deal, but it's a pretty big stretch to say that he wasn't 100% American.
I hope I would have voted for Ike rather than Robert (son of moderate-progressive William Howard) Taft, but what Truman was accusing him of saying is not right-wing wackadoo stuff.  Those were all incremental steps toward socialism.
We aren't a socialist country.  Not yet, anyway.  But we are closer to it than we were in 1930, before Hoover's proto-New Deal and FDR's genuine article.
And we were closer to it in 1920 (although actually even closer to proto-fascism) than we were in 1890, before the Progressives had their crack at fundamentally transforming America (including resegregating much of it).
We are much more dependent upon the federal government, and much less dependent on ourselves, our families, and our neighbors than we were in 1890.
Some of that is inevitable in a more complex society.  But there are good cases to be made that not every new program is a net improvement over the greater degree of liberty we had before.
As for Truman's last point--of course that was what Taft was saying.  "Down with the New Deal."  "Down with the Fair Deal."  It's what I would say could I go back in time to 1952.

H.L. Mencken, who was not a nice man in many respects, had this to say about Truman's 1948 campaign: “If there had been any formidable body of cannibals in the country he would have promised to provide them with free missionaries, fattened at the taxpayers’ expense.”
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 03, 2020, 10:44:52 PM
So you think Trump won cause he fools people under the electoral system but wouldnt fool anyone if popular vote is used

again in the 2016 election NY and Calif accounted for the popular vote diff

I really dont want NY and California picking my President
But what does that even mean? I don't want Wyoming determining the president, but they should get a say. How the heck are California and New York not supposed to get a say in who gets to be president?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 03, 2020, 10:50:45 PM
I did.  It changed nothing for me. 

I don’t care how much you hate this man, and I don’t care how often he screws up with his Twitter or his big fat mouth. You cannot possibly make a reasonable case that he has been anything but 100 supportive of our military in every way possible.
I can make the case.
He has pardoned war criminals, undermining the chain of command and good order and discipline.
He has undercut our NATO allies and emboldened Vladimir Putin, increasing the likelihood that our men and women in uniform will have to go fight a war in Europe.
He has helped polarize racial issues in the armed forces.  There is increasing alt-right/neo-Nazi infiltration of the military going on. There is less trust and cohesion in the military than there was before he became the POTUS.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 03, 2020, 10:52:22 PM
But what does that even mean? I don't want Wyoming determining the president, but they should get a say. How the heck are California and New York not supposed to get a say in who gets to be president?
see thats the beauty of the electoral system aint it great
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 03, 2020, 10:53:29 PM
I do notice you never want to comment on the bullshit coming out of Cuomos mouth today or the hypocrisy of Pelosi which are both hot news items. You always want to focus on POTUS

Deflection or denial?
HB: Neither of those two are running for POTUS.  That they are both slimeballs is not a defense of Trump.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 03, 2020, 10:59:30 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/media/atlantic-story-trump-dead-soldiers

Anonymous sources. I hold you to a higher standard than that Sam.  Please.
Why do you take the word of Trump's spokesman over the four sources that Jeffrey Goldberg surely vetted even though they did not want their names released?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 03, 2020, 11:03:17 PM
I can make the case.
He has pardoned war criminals, undermining the chain of command and good order and discipline.
He has undercut our NATO allies and emboldened Vladimir Putin, increasing the likelihood that our men and women in uniform will have to go fight a war in Europe.
He has helped polarize racial issues in the armed forces.  There is increasing alt-right/neo-Nazi infiltration of the military going on. There is less trust and cohesion in the military than there was before he became the POTUS.
First of all its impossible for POTUS to undermine the chain of command cause he is the commander in chief of the armed forces as provided by the constitution

Not sure what you mean by undercut but he has demanded the Allies pay their fair share for NATO

In what way has he emboldened Putin need more info on this

what racial issues are you talking about need more info

Increasing alt-right/neo Nazi infiltration hmm thats a new one hadnt heard that before what fake news place did that come from

No evidence that there is less trust or cohesion this is just something youve grabbed out of the air
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 03, 2020, 11:07:26 PM
do you really think Trump would say something like that

Pelosi and Cuomo are on tape so its proof for Trump is these unknown sources
Yes.  I am quite sure that Trump would say something like that.
He's 100% behind the military when it makes him look good.
But he didn't serve, and he laughs about having avoided service during the Vietnam War.  President Bonespurs.  Deserves a medal for dodging V.D.
And he bashed John McCain for getting shot down.
The real question is what motivates people into believing that he would never say something like that?  What in all of Donald Trump's completely self-serving life has indicated that he wouldn't call dead soldiers "suckers" or "losers"?
Please don't tell me about Pelosi and Coumo.  They are slime, but they aren't running for POTUS and their sliminess doesn't mean that Trump is not even slimier.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 03, 2020, 11:09:22 PM
Why do you take the word of Trump's spokesman over the four sources that Jeffrey Goldberg surely vetted even though they did not want their names released?
because countless times in the past these stories have been proven incorrect 

its all too easy for the media to just fling something out there by just saying the news came from sources
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 03, 2020, 11:16:45 PM
Yes.  I am quite sure that Trump would say something like that.
He's 100% behind the military when it makes him look good.
But he didn't serve, and he laughs about having avoided service during the Vietnam War.  President Bonespurs.  Deserves a medal for dodging V.D.
And he bashed John McCain for getting shot down.
The real question is what motivates people into believing that he would never say something like that?  What in all of Donald Trump's completely self-serving life has indicated that he wouldn't call dead soldiers "suckers" or "losers"?
Please don't tell me about Pelosi and Coumo.  They are slime, but they aren't running for POTUS and their sliminess doesn't mean that Trump is not even slimier.
theres lots of folks who didnt serv CW they should not be condemned for that

I guess we just are going to believe what we believe CW

I dont think this kind of stuff hurts him one bit but the dems keep throwing it out there and hoping
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 03, 2020, 11:18:03 PM
First of all its impossible for POTUS to undermine the chain of command cause he is the commander in chief of the armed forces as provided by the constitution

Not sure what you mean by undercut but he has demanded the Allies pay their fair share for NATO

In what way has he emboldened Putin need more info on this

what racial issues are you talking about need more info

Increasing alt-right/neo Nazi infiltration hmm thats a new one hadnt heard that before what fake news place did that come from

No evidence that there is less trust or cohesion this is just something youve grabbed out of the air
A brigade commander can undermine the chain of command below him, and so can the POTUS.
We're pulling out of Germany and moving some of that into Poland where it will be both less secure AND less of a deterrent.
If I have to explain about Putin you haven't been paying attention.  How about, for starters, that he hasn't called Putin on the bounties that Russia has put on the heads of American troops in Afghanistan?  I know--fake news.
Read Military.com, as I do every day.  Sign up for the newsletter--you too can read about all the wonderfulness.
Racial issue, yeah, just fake news.  Trump supporters don't like it, so it's fake news.
Read anything about command climate, morale, discipline, violence within units, again on Military.com.  Read all the vile comments from Trump supporters.  They hate blacks, they hate Jews, they think women are nothing but vaginas.  But they worship Donald Trump.  My only hope about that is that possibly some of them are bots from Donald's BFF Vladimir.
I'm not going to look up and provide links.  Last time I did, you didn't read them anyway, and just responded with more rhetorical questions.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 03, 2020, 11:33:17 PM
A brigade commander can undermine the chain of command below him, and so can the POTUS.
We're pulling out of Germany and moving some of that into Poland where it will be both less secure AND less of a deterrent.
If I have to explain about Putin you haven't been paying attention.  How about, for starters, that he hasn't called Putin on the bounties that Russia has put on the heads of American troops in Afghanistan?  I know--fake news.
Read Military.com, as I do every day.  Sign up for the newsletter--you too can read about all the wonderfulness.
Racial issue, yeah, just fake news.  Trump supporters don't like it, so it's fake news.
Read anything about command climate, morale, discipline, violence within units, again on Military.com.  Read all the vile comments from Trump supporters.  They hate blacks, they hate Jews, they think women are nothing but vaginas.  But they worship Donald Trump.  My only hope about that is that possibly some of them are bots from Donald's BFF Vladimir.
I'm not going to look up and provide links.  Last time I did, you didn't read them anyway, and just responded with more rhetorical questions.
everything Ive read on this says our own intelligence people have not been able to substantiate this
In fact I read the other day it came from Iran

Give me one example of a racial issue your are talking about

its amazing to me that if all these problems actually exist in the military that the dems and or the dem media like CNN hasnt picked up on it
this is right up their alley but they are as quiet as a church mouse
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 03, 2020, 11:57:08 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/media/atlantic-story-trump-dead-soldiers

Anonymous sources. I hold you to a higher standard than that Sam.  Please. 
Fun fact, the president used to be an anonymous source, sometimes about his own escapades. 

(I don't totally see the point of the story because folks are already kind of in enough of camps that they will either be mostly skeptical or on the other side strongly feeling a person whose brand is saying outlandish and disrespectful things might say something outlandish and disrespectful. We're at a point where I've tired enough that "people who work for the president said he insulted the army" and I'm just like, meh, won't make a difference)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 05:15:38 AM
HB: Neither of those two are running for POTUS.  That they are both slimeballs is not a defense of Trump.
You’re missing my point. I’m not trying to defend Trump.

once again the thread is moving along nicely without politics and Sam throws in a completely unverified bullshit rumor which proves to not be true, while  we have the most high ranking members of the opposition party running around on tape doing things that are horrible and saying things that are fomenting violence, which just happens to be factual —but what he and others are always accusing POTUS of.

I am simply pointing out the glaring hypocrisy.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 05:24:48 AM
Why do you take the word of Trump's spokesman over the four sources that Jeffrey Goldberg surely vetted even though they did not want their names released?
I can’t believe you asked this?  Mr. Goldberg is the same one who claims Trump had many strokes on his hospital visit. I suppose you believe that one too right LOL.

and please stop defending the other slime. The fact is the perception of the degree of sliminess of Trump is directly correlated to those who have helped him build that reputation.

The media has played up Pelosi continually saying Trump is a science denier. Don’t just write off the fact that the highest ranking Democrat is the real science denier and a slimy piece of you know what. Just a few days ago she claimed he slapped science in the face while she was mask list and going into a business that she put out of business.
And then you have Cuomo, the media darling, who botched the pandemic by far worse than anyone and truly is directly responsible for many deaths. Some thing you accuse trump of. And he was clearly calling for violence. You don’t just get to write that off sorry

if people are going to bring stuff like that in to the forum then people are going to counter act that with facts. 
lastly please quit saying they’re not running for president. Don’t try convincing me and others that the guy with dementia that can’t complete a sentence is truly going to be the leader of the free world.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 05:37:05 AM
To sum up

Pelosi received illicit haircut, blamed barber
Cuomo reacts to news that Trump will "defund" NYC for being "lawless" by saying he better bring an army when he comes to NYC
Trump calls armed forces casualties suckers and losers
Let me correct this for you.

to sum up:

YOU throw a very nasty tweet and linked article on this board, but it is completely speculative using anonymous sources.  This is your pattern by the way, as the thread was off politics.

The highest ranking Dem who has been shown every day by the liberal media blasting POTUS  for not taking the pandemic seriously and people like you eat  it up.

I use facts and video to prove how disingenuous she is what a hypocrite she is and you try to write it off -
but we’re talking about a person who put many many people out of business and thinks that she’s elitist and can do anything she wants.

Cuomo is caught on tape fomenting violence and abdicating responsibility for his complete failure of leader ship. You completely blow over that and now try to claim that it was justified because yada yada yada.  Again hypocrisy to its fullest, since that’s what you’ve been accusing POTUS of for months now

you keep throwing opinions out there and I keep countering with facts.  You blow off the fax because they don’t fit your narrative.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 05:40:17 AM
See, we have HB attacking the multiple (4, I believe) anonymous sources and not the president.  Because he can't. 
Facts really screw up your narrative don’t that orange man.  

you hate it when your narrative gets challenged because it’s purely speculative, by someone using facts. 

we know your hatred blinds you, but just try to reread the thread and see where the “attack“ started.  And as is often the case it was based on pure bullshit and countered with actual evidence. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 05:48:24 AM
For the record, claiming one “anonymous source” is no different or less ridiculous than claiming 50. 

As far as I’m concerned, and I know many other people feel this way, if you can’t cite information with people willing to back it up then don’t even bother publishing it.  

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 04, 2020, 06:22:50 AM
Let me correct this for you.

to sum up:

YOU throw a very nasty tweet and linked article on this board, but it is completely speculative using anonymous sources.  This is your pattern by the way, as the thread was off politics.

The highest ranking Dem who has been shown every day by the liberal media blasting POTUS  for not taking the pandemic seriously and people like you eat  it up.

I use facts and video to prove how disingenuous she is what a hypocrite she is and you try to write it off -
but we’re talking about a person who put many many people out of business and thinks that she’s elitist and can do anything she wants.

Cuomo is caught on tape fomenting violence and abdicating responsibility for his complete failure of leader ship. You completely blow over that and now try to claim that it was justified because yada yada yada.  Again hypocrisy to its fullest, since that’s what you’ve been accusing POTUS of for months now

you keep throwing opinions out there and I keep countering with facts.  You blow off the fax because they don’t fit your narrative.



For the life of me I don't understand why you seem so intent on defending this guy, even as you say you don't like him and wouldn't vote for him.  In any event, the article is not completely speculative.  Using unnamed sources isn't a particularly controversial - the Watergate reporting was based on unnamed sources.  The reason they are unnamed is because they work in the government and if they were named they would be fired.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 04, 2020, 07:55:09 AM
For the life of me I don't understand why you seem so intent on defending this guy, even as you say you don't like him and wouldn't vote for him.  In any event, the article is not completely speculative.  Using unnamed sources isn't a particularly controversial - the Watergate reporting was based on unnamed sources.  The reason they are unnamed is because they work in the government and if they were named they would be fired. 
your opinion


this is just what the author wants the reader to think but it could also just be made up - nobody knows

based on how the authors other allegations have fared Im guessing its the later 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 04, 2020, 08:12:23 AM
For what it's worth it's been confirmed by various other news agencies
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 04, 2020, 08:54:06 AM
For what it's worth it's been confirmed by various other news agencies
still with unnamed sources

they just picked up the story they didnt confirm it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 04, 2020, 08:59:25 AM
https://twitter.com/speechboy71/status/1301719989666353152?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 04, 2020, 09:04:51 AM
damn, stumbled into the political thread again
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 04, 2020, 09:11:09 AM
damn, stumbled into the political thread again
Sucker!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 04, 2020, 09:11:27 AM
For the life of me I don't understand why you seem so intent on defending this guy, even as you say you don't like him and wouldn't vote for him.  In any event, the article is not completely speculative.  Using unnamed sources isn't a particularly controversial - the Watergate reporting was based on unnamed sources.  The reason they are unnamed is because they work in the government and if they were named they would be fired. 
I'm sorry, but if a person cannot allow their name to be used, we should not be accepting their story. It comes down to an issue of credibility. Who is this mystery man/men? What are their allegiances?  If they are not known, the accused (POTUS) cannot possibly defend himself because he has no way to countering their opinions. 

The other thing about this is, why is this coming out now? This supposedly happened 2 years ago and this is the first we have heard of it, 2 months before the election? Forgive me if I believe this smells funny.  

Look, I don't care for Trump the person, either. However, I do agree many many of the things he has done. I also didn't care for Obama. But I would never accept a negative story about him where the source could not or would not be identified. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 04, 2020, 09:15:52 AM
Well if it is accurate then prolly a politician
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2020, 09:17:56 AM
Trump may have said something indefensible and ridiculous, film at 11.

I won't take umbrage at comments by a person I cannot respect.



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 04, 2020, 09:21:08 AM

So get mad at the people you like :017:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 04, 2020, 09:21:37 AM
I'm sorry, but if a person cannot allow their name to be used, we should not be accepting their story. It comes down to an issue of credibility. Who is this mystery man/men? What are their allegiances?  If they are not known, the accused (POTUS) cannot possibly defend himself because he has no way to countering their opinions.

The other thing about this is, why is this coming out now? This supposedly happened 2 years ago and this is the first we have heard of it, 2 months before the election? Forgive me if I believe this smells funny. 

Look, I don't care for Trump the person, either. However, I do agree many many of the things he has done. I also didn't care for Obama. But I would never accept a negative story about him where the source could not or would not be identified.
yep unless something creditable breaks about this hit piece my comments are done concerning this

its a waste of time
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 04, 2020, 09:22:19 AM
For the record, claiming one “anonymous source” is no different or less ridiculous than claiming 50.

As far as I’m concerned, and I know many other people feel this way, if you can’t cite information with people willing to back it up then don’t even bother publishing it. 


I mean, people are willing to back it up, they're not willing to put their name on it. 

Do you feel that if 1-2 people said it, and a few more backed them up, you'd strongly believe it? Or would you dig in on those named people and ask why they're speaking up. Because when push comes to shove, they're not going to be perfect, both because the lord makes no perfect people, and when you share other people's misdeeds, that'll be taken as a fault even if done for upstanding reasons. (The sets aside the perfectly rational reason of not wanting one's name out there in that strangers will threaten to murder them or do other manner of gross things)

It's an interesting exercise in where and how we use our skepticism. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 04, 2020, 09:27:21 AM
I'm sorry, but if a person cannot allow their name to be used, we should not be accepting their story. It comes down to an issue of credibility. Who is this mystery man/men? What are their allegiances?  If they are not known, the accused (POTUS) cannot possibly defend himself because he has no way to countering their opinions.
Does this mean we should accept almost none of the reporting on the Big Ten's coronavirus response? Most of that is not from named sources. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2020, 09:29:02 AM
So get mad at the people you like :017:
Every so often of course, some I did respect says something of this general ilk that reveals something of their inner self, and I take that and act accordingly.

I've had people come back later and try and explain and apologize.  Well, OK, but apparently you thought it enough to vocalize it once, and you weren't drunk.

I have heard Trump say so many reprehensible things, to me, I lost whatever modicum of respect I might once have had (never much, he didn't matter to me).

Whatever he says now might merit a Spockian rise of an eyebrow.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2020, 09:30:15 AM
As for unnamed sources, I evaluate the story on its merits, and they provide SOME level of evidence, not compelling perhaps, but it's evidence.  If it fits with other evidence, I start to think it's probably more or less true.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 04, 2020, 09:35:09 AM
I have heard Trump say so many reprehensible things, to me, I lost whatever modicum of respect I might once have had (never much, he didn't matter to me).
I guess that where most adults are at yet at least half can't see the appalling bomblasts from the other side of the political isle
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 04, 2020, 09:39:43 AM
Does this mean we should accept almost none of the reporting on the Big Ten's coronavirus response? Most of that is not from named sources.
The Big Ten Covid issues are not about trying to undermine one of the current candidates for POTUS.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2020, 09:52:06 AM
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a33824629/tested-1962-chevy-corvette-vs-1982-chevy-corvette/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&fbclid=IwAR25KwjJv6Px7UiP_DObobJiHzs9hCT3Cvxlgwz799VQbOYo5zl7N6rn3NY (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a33824629/tested-1962-chevy-corvette-vs-1982-chevy-corvette/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&fbclid=IwAR25KwjJv6Px7UiP_DObobJiHzs9hCT3Cvxlgwz799VQbOYo5zl7N6rn3NY)

Kinda fun comparison, calling 0.82 skid pad commendable.  Heh.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 04, 2020, 10:14:58 AM
five unnamed inside sources have told me that Joe Biden is a poo poo head
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2020, 10:20:49 AM
Fake news. 

In real news today the individual with by far the worst performance during the pandemic, Governor Cuomo of New York, actually threatened violence against Trump if he were to go back to New York and blamed him for New York’s Horrible covid performance.
When I see stuff like that it’s hard for me to take any Democrat seriously.

meanwhile there aren’t enough moving companies in New York to handle the people that are moving out of that state LOL
Wow, you're on the payroll.  What planet are you on?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2020, 10:23:58 AM
your opinion


this is just what the author wants the reader to think but it could also just be made up - nobody knows

based on how the authors other allegations have fared Im guessing its the later
Yes, that's his opinion that the sources remain unnamed or risk their gov't job, but it's based on past evidence.  Even you know that Trump gets rid of you for saying any tiny, microscopic thing he deems negative or critical of himself.  

You and HB are examples of why every conversation about Trump turns to shit.  You immediately dismiss any and all stories/reports of Trump being less than amazing.  You're on your knees for him 24/7 and it's sad.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 04, 2020, 10:24:55 AM
The Big Ten Covid issues are not about trying to undermine one of the current candidates for POTUS.
So we "should not be accepting their story" from anonymous sources about a politician who has made a persona as a petulant jerk acting like a petulant jerk, but we should be accepting when it comes to the machinations of a $750 million company? This seems incongruent. 

I mean, I think it was in the last decade that a celebrity cited some unnamed stuff to argue for why the sitting POTUS was there illegally. And a person pushing that on all sorts of outlets was eventually seen as credible enough to be POTUS. What a world! 

Anyway, if the assumption is that a person who has been disrespectful of the military in public wouldn't do it in private, we're at an impasse, I suppose. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2020, 10:25:36 AM
I don't think what Cuomo said was a threat, it was more of an exaggerated assessment of what he views as reality.  Hyperbole.

There does appear to be movement out of NYC.

New Jersey actually reports the most deaths per capita in the US, New York is second.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2020, 10:26:16 AM
I accept stories from unnamed sources only if I like them, and dismiss them if I don't.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CatsbyAZ on September 04, 2020, 10:47:47 AM
Been a long offseason and with wobbly prospects for this next season to finally happen I’ve been YouTubing games. For instance the 2008 2A Texas high school state championship between Kirbyville and Muleshoe. The Texas accents of the announcers take it right home:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W8e2Ts-jC-k
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 04, 2020, 10:53:22 AM
You tryin' to say we talk funny down here?  Maybe YOU'RE the one that talks funny!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2020, 10:55:44 AM
HS announcers are the best, because they're not necessarily the best person for the job, just the person who wants to do it the most.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2020, 11:00:15 AM
You tryin' to say we talk funny down here?  Maybe YOU'RE the one that talks funny!

I remember talking with my parents on the phone and thinking they had Southern accents ....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 11:00:38 AM
I mean, people are willing to back it up, they're not willing to put their name on it.

Do you feel that if 1-2 people said it, and a few more backed them up, you'd strongly believe it? Or would you dig in on those named people and ask why they're speaking up. Because when push comes to shove, they're not going to be perfect, both because the lord makes no perfect people, and when you share other people's misdeeds, that'll be taken as a fault even if done for upstanding reasons. (The sets aside the perfectly rational reason of not wanting one's name out there in that strangers will threaten to murder them or do other manner of gross things)

It's an interesting exercise in where and how we use our skepticism.
Such a high percentage of stuff that he has been accused of has proven to be 100% completely false. There lies my skepticism
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 04, 2020, 11:07:39 AM
I'm just enjoying CWS as the fake news, libtard of the group. 
:86:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2020, 11:07:54 AM
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/trump-denies-calling-slain-us-service-members-losers?fbclid=IwAR1U9YR36Q0tjrQglRAkB7c1l4EZHMtHcjjB3F3iF8O2RLUNW7sdqIWMcHc (https://taskandpurpose.com/news/trump-denies-calling-slain-us-service-members-losers?fbclid=IwAR1U9YR36Q0tjrQglRAkB7c1l4EZHMtHcjjB3F3iF8O2RLUNW7sdqIWMcHc)

Denials of course.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 11:32:35 AM
Yes, that's his opinion that the sources remain unnamed or risk their gov't job, but it's based on past evidence.  Even you know that Trump gets rid of you for saying any tiny, microscopic thing he deems negative or critical of himself. 

You and HB are examples of why every conversation about Trump turns to shit.  You immediately dismiss any and all stories/reports of Trump being less than amazing.  You're on your knees for him 24/7 and it's sad.
Haha.  This is rich. The conversations about Trump which you guys bring up, are shit to start with LOL

Why don’t you start talking about all of the politicians who are assholes. Why must you focus on Trump especially adding false fuel to the fire when all these other idiots are doing all these other stupid things?  Trump is a buffoon. That’s a given. But let’s talk about the entire political landscape instead of quoting “anonymous sources”and piling on
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 11:33:23 AM
For what it's worth it's been confirmed by various other news agencies
Fake. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 11:34:25 AM
Wow, you're on the payroll.  What planet are you on?
Why don’t you go back upstairs and tell mom you want milk and cookies. That way you’ll be out of the basement for a while
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 04, 2020, 11:39:21 AM
You're about 1 pandemic behind the rest of us.
I guess that makes me two behind.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 11:44:16 AM
https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-details-shooting-portland-michael-reinoehl

My condolences OAF. One of your heroes has been eliminated.  To his credit he did fire 40 or 50 rounds trying to take out law-enforcement.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 04, 2020, 11:45:49 AM
The tweet is quoting a piece in The Atlantic
The Atlantic. Oh, OK, that's credible for sure then. Probably more so than the Pacific.

I'd rather read the Athletic.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2020, 11:54:13 AM
I guess that where most adults are at yet at least half can't see the appalling bomblasts from the other side of the political isle
That's what I don't get about this debate...

Right: "Democrats are evil!"

Entire world: "Trump is blatantly outright an evil, lying, narcissist with a fragile ego and is only in this for himself."

Right: "But at least he's not a Democrat! Look at what I found! One of them did something bad!"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2020, 12:02:02 PM
I'm just enjoying CWS as the fake news, libtard of the group.
:86:
Me too. From everything I can tell, CWS is a libertarian-leaning Republican. 

But he's being excommunicated from "his tribe" because he dares point out the Emporer is naked.

I mean, I shouldn't say I'm "enjoying" it. It's quite sad. It speaks quite poignantly to what makes me so depressed about human nature, that I've covered extensively in this thread over the last 1-2 weeks. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2020, 12:03:40 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-details-shooting-portland-michael-reinoehl

My condolences OAF. One of your heroes has been eliminated.  To his credit he did fire 40 or 50 rounds trying to take out law-enforcement.
I don't think this is "fair" personally.  I doubt he is anyone's "hero" who posts here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2020, 12:04:43 PM
Maybe CWS doesn't have a "tribe".  I know I don't.  I have a loosely held group of "notions" some of which are con and some of which would be viewed as lib, and I don't know if any of them are really correct.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 04, 2020, 12:05:19 PM
Allegations like these are of particular interest because of their potential to impact our tribal instincts. My conservative Marine friends place their membership in the Marines very high in their bundle of tribal identifications. When people like Mattis and Kelly--both highly respected Marines--start to question Trump, that starts forces a reckoning between their tribal instincts. Mattis is already on record opposing Trump. That's a pretty big deal.

Kelly has so far been rather circumspect. If he confirms what his friend told these reporters about Trump's callousness to him at his son's grave on Memorial Day, that will be another chink in the armor. If there is confirmation of the disrespect to Marines at Belleau Wood, that, too, could cause a pretty big stir.

I think I said above (somewhere--gawd, this is a long thread) that one of my curiosities about Trump is his remarkably consistent support. 38-43%, plus the margin of error; no matter what is happening and what he's done. This stands in contrast to every President who came before him, who saw their approval ratings sway wildly depending on what was going on and what they were doing. It isn't especially remarkable that a President with negative approval ratings has a chance at reelection: Obama and W both succeeded despite poor polling before the election. And Obama--much like Trump--pursued a reelection strategy surgically focused on getting reelected, not winning the popular vote (though he did win both). 

What is remarkable is that no matter what Trump does, he keeps the same level of support. So the question I have from articles like the Atlantic's (and the other media organizations who say they have confirmed aspects of that article) is whether it impacts that support. It won't impact it a lot, but as LH320 points out (I think it was him), this election will be decided by small changes in voters' attitudes, not big ones. 

So--does this report lead to military/veterans questioning their past support for Trump? Will one of my buddies, a proud "deplorable," and former Marine--question his allegiance to Trump over this? His reaction right now will be the same as many on this thread: anonymous = fake news. But what if Kelly goes on the record? What if others do? It probably won't change his mind, but it might make him reconsider which tribe is more important to him. It might.

And if it does, that's one of those small changes in voter attitudes that could matter come November 3. 

[To be clear, I am not "worried" in the sense that LH320 is rather bellicose about, but I am a realist. I think Biden wins, and I think it's not razor thin--though that's in the eye of the beholder--but I look at the polling, which I trust, and see that Trump absolutely has a non-trivial chance, even if the polling numbers stay exactly as they are now up to election day.]
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 04, 2020, 12:08:58 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-details-shooting-portland-michael-reinoehl

My condolences OAF. One of your heroes has been eliminated.  To his credit he did fire 40 or 50 rounds trying to take out law-enforcement.
By all accounts, this guy was trash--regardless of political ideology, the idea of encouraging civil war is contemptible--and likely a murderer as well.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/michael-forest-reinoeh-killed-portland-shooting/2020/09/04/652f6e98-ed44-11ea-99a1-71343d03bc29_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-banner-main_reinoehl-1227am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans

 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/michael-forest-reinoeh-killed-portland-shooting/2020/09/04/652f6e98-ed44-11ea-99a1-71343d03bc29_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-banner-main_reinoehl-1227am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans)https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/03/us/michael-reinoehl-arrest-portland-shooting.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/03/us/michael-reinoehl-arrest-portland-shooting.html)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2020, 12:22:27 PM
If there is confirmation of the disrespect to Marines at Belleau Wood, that, too, could cause a pretty big stir.
My brother sailed on the USS Belleau Wood on at least one of his deployments. He was a USMC CH-53E pilot at the time prior to going on to be a fixed-wing flight instructor and now flying for United after his retirement from the Corps. 

I'd love to get his thoughts on some of this stuff, but despite him living not more than ~20 minutes from me right now, we're estranged for unrelated issues.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2020, 12:23:53 PM
By all accounts, this guy was trash--regardless of political ideology, the idea of encouraging civil war is contemptible--and likely a murderer as well.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/michael-forest-reinoeh-killed-portland-shooting/2020/09/04/652f6e98-ed44-11ea-99a1-71343d03bc29_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-banner-main_reinoehl-1227am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans

 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/michael-forest-reinoeh-killed-portland-shooting/2020/09/04/652f6e98-ed44-11ea-99a1-71343d03bc29_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-banner-main_reinoehl-1227am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans)https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/03/us/michael-reinoehl-arrest-portland-shooting.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/03/us/michael-reinoehl-arrest-portland-shooting.html)
Yeah, but that doesn't stop anyone from sitting there and trying to scour all his previous social media presence, any other online presence, in the hopes that they can prove that he was motivated by being from "the other side". 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 12:24:47 PM
That's what I don't get about this debate...

Right: "Democrats are evil!"

Entire world: "Trump is blatantly outright an evil, lying, narcissist with a fragile ego and is only in this for himself."

Right: "But at least he's not a Democrat! Look at what I found! One of them did something bad!"
You have eloquently discussed this phenomenon recently.  And now your exhibiting it with posts like this one.

First/ I am not sure there’s much of a debate at all here. I am not sure there’s much of a debate at all here  This form is exhibiting the exact traits you spoke of and the national narrative.

“trump is a worthless piece of shit. He caused the worldwide pandemic and is personally responsible for the deaths of over 180,000 people. He foments violence and is the reason our cities are burning as we speak and people are fleeing them faster than they can hire moving trucks. This was his plan all along and everybody knows it and anyone who disagrees is not as smart as me.”  “ Look, I have tons of anonymous sources to prove it“

”ok- so let’s discuss the national political landscape. What about the party of opposition, the Democrats?”
”No!  You cannot discuss that because that’s deflecting from what a worthless human being Donald J Trump is. You cannot discuss Democrats who have been caught with their hand in the cookie jar, or who have done such a poor job with the Covid that they actually are responsible for many deaths, you cannot discuss that democratic cities have poorly handled the violence and if in fact encouraged it and in some ways funded it.” 

“why can’t we discuss those things?  What if we want to talk about national politics in general in the landscape? What if we want to talk about what other candidates might bring to the table?”

” No!  We can only talk about how horrible of a human being Donald Trump is.  Anything else you discuss proves that you are brainwashed and not part of reality?”




Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 04, 2020, 12:28:34 PM
True story.

I'm a Tarantino movie fan. I find fault with plenty in his movies, but I enjoy most of them. Would be happy to discuss my reviews of his movies another time. Regardless, my current favorite is Inglorious Basterds. One reason is that it calls back to a time when we knew Nazis were the bad guys. 

My son is a WWII buff, stemming originally from his love of battleships because WWII was the apex of the battleship. However, his love of WWII sucked him into tanks as well, particularly German and Russian tanks. At 13 year old, I would bet he could outdo all but the best read historians among this group on the details of Operation Barbarossa. I bet CWS and CD could give him a run for his money, but I'd take odds against anyone else, including me.

So, a couple of years ago we started playing World of Tanks on the X Box. It appeals to our interest in tanks. And it's fun. It's a guilty pleasure--judge me if you must.

Anyway, the highest, best use of that game is in multi-player, where you play in two teams of 15 players. Your team is linked, and you can talk to the other members of your team. Generally, as with the anonymity of the internet, the "group chat" is a toxic mix of men screaming expletives at their teammates, blaming them for all manner of ills in the game. So we turn off the group chat feature. But you can also join a "platoon" that gets assigned to teams together. In that platoon, you can use the chat function to limit who you are talking to, so you're not involved in the toxicity of the anonymous group chat.

Over time you run into people that seem like minded enough that you join platoons with them. So the other night, I'm playing with a group of folks. One was from Pennsylvania, one Texas, and one somewhere I didn't catch. Texas guy says, so my grandfather as an SS officer in WWII, and served in Hitler's protection team. He starts to brag about it. Pennsylvania guy says, "How are we supposed to feel about the SS, now?" and these three guys laugh about it, but not the, "of course that's horrible" kind of laugh.

Now, there's some ambiguity here. Maybe Pennsylvania was trying to figure out how to address Texas's family's military history. I get that military service to one's country is an honorable pursuit, and it doesn't mean support for that country's terrible causes. Heck, I served in a war effort (to be clear, not combat service) that I fundamentally disagreed with. I get that; it wasn't my choice--I signed up to do what We the People told me to do, and I did it. I understand that. And I understand the pride in a family's historical military service. But the conversation I was listening too sure didn't sound like it was acknowledging and working around that ambiguity.

How did we get to a place where serving in the SS wasn't automatically a negative?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 04, 2020, 12:29:42 PM
https://twitter.com/breningstall/status/1301872818242686976?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 04, 2020, 12:31:29 PM
But what does that even mean? I don't want Wyoming determining the president, but they should get a say. How the heck are California and New York not supposed to get a say in who gets to be president?
Why don't you ask all the people who are fleeing those states (and Illinois)?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 04, 2020, 12:36:40 PM
I also didn't care for Obama. But I would never accept a negative story about him where the source could not or would not be identified.
A negative story on that crook? When was that?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 04, 2020, 12:41:30 PM
Two thoughts: whatever the reason for the memo re defunding Stars and Stripes, it happened well before this new accusation. The two aren't related--at least not in any direct way.

As for the narrative about people leaving California (and other places), it amuses me. Yes, people decide to move, some because they don't like the direction of the state government. But the state is still growing. One of the reasons people are leaving is the high cost of housing. Why is the housing so darned expensive? Supply and demand: as in the demand far outstrips the supply.

So good for the people cashing in--I have a friend who is about to become one of them, and literally may not have to work again while living in Ann Arbor--but I won't worry too much about the fleeing masses. My property value is safe (though maybe not from a major earthquake).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 12:41:52 PM
Yeah, but that doesn't stop anyone from sitting there and trying to scour all his previous social media presence, any other online presence, in the hopes that they can prove that he was motivated by being from "the other side".


it needs scouring?  
https://twitter.com/breningstall/status/1301872818242686976?s=19
Your last Twitter trash about Trump has already been fully debunked by Bolton, who was there in person, and who hates Trump.

you probably believe this one too don’t you?  Lol
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 04, 2020, 12:46:53 PM
HB--two more things we agree on!

(That the Stars and Stripes article was unrelated to this alleged contempt of the military; and that that leftist agitator idiot is contemptible.)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 04, 2020, 12:50:03 PM
silly dems

working overtime to try and get the military on Biden's side

not gonna happen
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 04, 2020, 12:51:55 PM
As for the narrative about people leaving California (and other places), it amuses me. Yes, people decide to move, some because they don't like the direction of the state government. But the state is still growing. One of the reasons people are leaving is the high cost of housing. Why is the housing so darned expensive? Supply and demand: as in the demand far outstrips the supply.
Rents are coming down. I know this, because I'm part of a partnership that owns 3500+ properties in the LA area.

Supply is going to outrun demand very soon. Population is for sure rising. Net income per capita is not going to keep up. People who don't work love California, as much or more as people who do work.

Anyway, the general partner is starting to unload properties, before it's too late and his limited partners lose money. Let me know if you are interested. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 04, 2020, 12:55:24 PM
So we "should not be accepting their story" from anonymous sources about a politician who has made a persona as a petulant jerk acting like a petulant jerk, but we should be accepting when it comes to the machinations of a $750 million company? This seems incongruent.

I mean, I think it was in the last decade that a celebrity cited some unnamed stuff to argue for why the sitting POTUS was there illegally. And a person pushing that on all sorts of outlets was eventually seen as credible enough to be POTUS. What a world!

Anyway, if the assumption is that a person who has been disrespectful of the military in public wouldn't do it in private, we're at an impasse, I suppose.
How many times have we seen negative stories about Trump citing unnamed sources, that all turned out to be completely false? You believe as you wish. I will not hold my breath on this one, just like all of the others. When someone comes out with solid, substantiated evidence, I'll listen. Until then, this is simply more BS noise from the media that has been working 24/7 for the last 4 years to find something to try to take him out. Excuse me for not buying it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 04, 2020, 12:56:15 PM
More interesting lessons on how the media interprets things:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/04/us/politics/trump-veterans-losers.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/04/us/politics/trump-veterans-losers.html)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-04/bolton-says-trump-remarks-on-military-despicable-if-accurate (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-04/bolton-says-trump-remarks-on-military-despicable-if-accurate)

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/john-bolton-memoir-atlantic-trump-france (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/john-bolton-memoir-atlantic-trump-france)


The NY Times article says Bolton was there for the Marne Cemetery decision and it was weather-based; but says he doesn't know if Trump said something to someone else another time that day.

Bloomberg reports that Bolton says the allegations are consistent with what he knows of Trump, but that he didn't hear the Marne Cemetery decision thing.

Fox News says Bolton undercuts the allegations, in support of its own sources who disagree with the allegations.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 04, 2020, 12:58:45 PM
More interesting lessons on how the media interprets things:
The true enemy of this country is the media.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 04, 2020, 12:59:55 PM
Rents are coming down. I know this, because I'm part of a partnership that owns 3500+ properties in the LA area.

Supply is going to outrun demand very soon. Population is for sure rising. Net income per capita is not going to keep up. People who don't work love California, as much or more as people who do work.

Anyway, the general partner is starting to unload properties, before it's too late and his limited partners lose money. Let me know if you are interested. :)
Rents are coming down because of COVID and because there is finally more housing being built, which is a good thing. And rents are coming down from levels that make the rest of the country blush. I'm not worried.

What's more surprising to me is how little COVID has suppressed the value of real estate in my area. Seriously, it's nuts.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 04, 2020, 01:02:19 PM
The true enemy of this country is the media.
I turn that crap off only to get a seemingly full report of it here
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 04, 2020, 01:04:02 PM
Rents are coming down because of COVID and because there is finally more housing being built, which is a good thing. And rents are coming down from levels that make the rest of the country blush. I'm not worried.

What's more surprising to me is how little COVID has suppressed the value of real estate in my area. Seriously, it's nuts.
Hasn't affected property value here at all.

Also home sales continue at a brisk pace.  Realtors actually like it right now, because only clients that are motivated to buy and move soon, are willing to risk contamination by going to look at houses.  All of the "looky-loos" are staying away and not wasting the realtors' time.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 01:10:31 PM
HB--two more things we agree on!

(That the Stars and Stripes article was unrelated to this alleged contempt of the military; and that that leftist agitator idiot is contemptible.)
Yay!  I meant that!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 01:10:53 PM
The true enemy of this country is the media.
Amen   
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 01:12:34 PM
More interesting lessons on how the media interprets things:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/04/us/politics/trump-veterans-losers.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/04/us/politics/trump-veterans-losers.html)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-04/bolton-says-trump-remarks-on-military-despicable-if-accurate (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-04/bolton-says-trump-remarks-on-military-despicable-if-accurate)

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/john-bolton-memoir-atlantic-trump-france (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/john-bolton-memoir-atlantic-trump-france)


The NY Times article says Bolton was there for the Marne Cemetery decision and it was weather-based; but says he doesn't know if Trump said something to someone else another time that day.

Bloomberg reports that Bolton says the allegations are consistent with what he knows of Trump, but that he didn't hear the Marne Cemetery decision thing.

Fox News says Bolton undercuts the allegations, in support of its own sources who disagree with the allegations.
Fox used direct quotes from Bolton’s book. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 04, 2020, 01:14:53 PM
The true enemy of this country is the media.
Well that, and China.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 01:16:52 PM
Well that, and China.
Double Amen.  China’s best weapon so far- Biden
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 01:18:10 PM
Here you go Sam- let’s play the Sam game.  But I will upgrade it to the horse mouth versus in- named sources 


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-claims-black-man-invented-light-bulb-during-campaign-event
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 04, 2020, 01:23:47 PM
Fox used direct quotes from Bolton’s book. 
All of the reports note that Bolton says he was at the decision to cancel the visit and that it didn't include the comment that the Atlantic story alleges. The NY Times goes on to say that Bolton doesn't deny that Trump could have made that comment to someone else at some other point that day. The Bloomberg article suggests that Bolton thinks the allegations are consistent with what he knows about Trump.

So there's no question about what Bolton said specifically about the decision to cancel the event. All three sources agree on that point. But Fox News uses it to cast doubt on the story, the NY Times is essentially neutral on the point, and the Bloomberg article uses Bolton's comments to lend the allegations credibility.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 04, 2020, 01:30:08 PM
Here you go Sam- let’s play the Sam game.  But I will upgrade it to the horse mouth versus in- named sources


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-claims-black-man-invented-light-bulb-during-campaign-event
I thought everybody knew that duh
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 04, 2020, 01:32:51 PM
All of the reports note that Bolton says he was at the decision to cancel the visit and that it didn't include the comment that the Atlantic story alleges. The NY Times goes on to say that Bolton doesn't deny that Trump could have made that comment to someone else at some other point that day. The Bloomberg article suggests that Bolton thinks the allegations are consistent with what he knows about Trump.

So there's no question about what Bolton said specifically about the decision to cancel the event. All three sources agree on that point. But Fox News uses it to cast doubt on the story, the NY Times is essentially neutral on the point, and the Bloomberg article uses Bolton's comments to lend the allegations credibility.
How in the world could Bolton's comments be used to support this fake news story
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 04, 2020, 01:37:35 PM
How in the world could Bolton's comments be used to support this fake news story
Because Bolton gave an interview--today--in which he said the following:

“These comments are despicable. If he made them, they are despicable...”

“I have not heard anybody say, ‘Oh, that doesn’t sound like the Donald Trump I know,’...”

“He was prone to say from time to time: ‘What did they get out of it? What was the worth of the war in Iraq and the war in Afghanistan?’” Bolton said. “That is a kind of insensitivity that Trump does have, there’s no doubt about it.”

“I didn’t hear him say those things,” he said, adding later he probably would have included the remarks in his book if he had. “Now, did he say those things to other people later in the day? It’s certainly possible.”

As HB noted--and no one should disagree with--Bolton is clearly not a Trump fan.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2020, 01:39:00 PM
You have eloquently discussed this phenomenon recently.  And now your exhibiting it with posts like this one.

First/ I am not sure there’s much of a debate at all here. I am not sure there’s much of a debate at all here  This form is exhibiting the exact traits you spoke of and the national narrative.

“trump is a worthless piece of shit. He caused the worldwide pandemic and is personally responsible for the deaths of over 180,000 people. He foments violence and is the reason our cities are burning as we speak and people are fleeing them faster than they can hire moving trucks. This was his plan all along and everybody knows it and anyone who disagrees is not as smart as me.”  “ Look, I have tons of anonymous sources to prove it“

”ok- so let’s discuss the national political landscape. What about the party of opposition, the Democrats?”
”No!  You cannot discuss that because that’s deflecting from what a worthless human being Donald J Trump is. You cannot discuss Democrats who have been caught with their hand in the cookie jar, or who have done such a poor job with the Covid that they actually are responsible for many deaths, you cannot discuss that democratic cities have poorly handled the violence and if in fact encouraged it and in some ways funded it.” 

“why can’t we discuss those things?  What if we want to talk about national politics in general in the landscape? What if we want to talk about what other candidates might bring to the table?”

” No!  We can only talk about how horrible of a human being Donald Trump is.  Anything else you discuss proves that you are brainwashed and not part of reality?”
You do realize, nobody is saying that we can't discuss those things. We've discussed all sorts of things in this thread. We've discussed BLM in detail. We've discussed the protests in detail. We've discussed responsible policing. 

But as soon as someone brings up something bad about POTUS, someone deflects and changes the subject to "well what about the Democrats", and then acts like we won't talk about them.

So ok. Let's compare and contrast the 2020 candidates. 

I think Donald Trump is morally, intellectually, mentally and temperamentally unfit to hold the office of President. I believe that a president should consider the office of the presidency as larger than himself or his own ambitions; I don't believe Trump does so. I believe that a President should consider themselves President of the whole country; I believe Trump sees himself as the President of his supporters and anyone else is an enemy. I believe that the President should attempt to operate within the law; I believe Trump wants to do whatever he wants and chafes when the law disagrees [sometimes does it anyway]. I believe that Trump is a horrible human being; a narcissistic person without empathy. A person who quite literally views the worth of every other person on Earth by whether or not they like him, rather than anything else; he's the one who "fell in love" with Kim Jong-Un, remember? I believe that Trump is purely transactional, and views every negotiation as win/loss rather than trying to find win-win outcomes; I believe that if Trump was faced with the Prisoner's Dilemma, he'd sing to the cops every time and see his co-conspirator staying silent being the "sucker". I believe he is cruel and sadistic, fully comfortable "punching down", as he did when he made fun of a reporter with a disability. I believe he has no personal morality; while he is supposedly "pro-life", if evidence came out that he knocked up some floozy who he was cheating on his wife with, and he was proven to have paid for her abortion, I don't think ANYONE would be surprised at all. I believe he is a racist and a misogynist. I believe he is a nationalist, not a patriot. Policy-wise, I might consider myself closer to him that Biden, if he were even remotely "conservative" or "Republican". I don't believe he aligns very closely with traditional Republican policies. Most of the time, especially when it comes to trade, he sounds more like Bernie or Warren. 

Now, I think Biden is a doddering old fool. A career politician who has never really done anything outside of Washington. However, I do believe he is an honorable man. I think he truly BELIEVES that what he is doing is public service. I truly believe he will respect the office of President as something bigger and more important than his own ambition. I think he respects the Constitution and understands that it puts limits on his power. I think his history is such that he will do his best to try to work across the aisle with Republicans to accomplish things; he will not view them as "the enemy". Personally, I believe he has empathy; the stories of him continuing to reach out to kids who suffer from a stutter are endearing. I don't think life was made easy for him; and he's suffered plenty of personal loss; I think that humbles a man. Policy-wise, I don't think I'd approve of a lot of what he does, as I didn't under Obama or Clinton. That said, I think he's basically a center-left moderate Democrat. I'm not scared that if we elect Biden that we'll be just like Cuba in 2024. 

I think Biden has limitations, but I honestly believe he's going to try to surround himself with smart people and take their counsel. Trump thinks he's the only smart person in the world and surrounds himself with sycophants who blow smoke up his ass. I think Biden would probably go down in history as a "do-nothing" President, which is a HUGE improvement from our current "do-bad" President.   

Every President I can remember, from Obama to Bush-43 to Clinton to Bush-41 (I can't go back farther as I was only 10 when Bush-41 was elected), was someone who I think could faithfully discharge the responsibilities of the office. I don't believe that about Trump. Hence I'm not excited for a Biden presidency. But I'm truly terrified by a second [or third/fourth, as he's joked] term of Trump. Quite literally I don't talk much about Biden because I don't think that much of him; but I'm in ABT (anyone but Trump) mode. I believe he is THAT bad. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 04, 2020, 01:39:28 PM
The thing I appreciate about this board is how civility reigns.

I'm pretty damn convinced that we could govern this country better than the current ship of fools - top to bottom.

I'm President. Who's with me?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on September 04, 2020, 01:40:04 PM
The thing I appreciate about this board is how civility reigns.

I'm pretty damn convinced that we could govern this country better than the current ship of fools - top to bottom.

I'm President. Who's with me?
Can I take kickbacks?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 01:40:51 PM
The Liberals and their minions win.  

They have everyone talking about what appears to be a made up story from way back.  Meanwhile- the violence in our cities and Biden’s repeated boners get off the news cycle.  

Pretty good but recognizable playbook. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 04, 2020, 01:43:51 PM
You do realize, nobody is saying that we can't discuss those things. We've discussed all sorts of things in this thread. We've discussed BLM in detail. We've discussed the protests in detail. We've discussed responsible policing.

But as soon as someone brings up something bad about POTUS, someone deflects and changes the subject to "well what about the Democrats", and then acts like we won't talk about them.

So ok. Let's compare and contrast the 2020 candidates.

I think Donald Trump

Now, I think Biden
Opinions vary you have yours and others have theirs
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 04, 2020, 01:44:55 PM
The Liberals and their minions win. 

They have everyone talking about what appears to be a made up story from way back.  Meanwhile- the violence in our cities and Biden’s repeated boners get off the news cycle. 

Pretty good but recognizable playbook.
all it does is fire up his base
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 01:50:57 PM
You do realize, nobody is saying that we can't discuss those things. We've discussed all sorts of things in this thread. We've discussed BLM in detail. We've discussed the protests in detail. We've discussed responsible policing.

But as soon as someone brings up something bad about POTUS, someone deflects and changes the subject to "well what about the Democrats", and then acts like we won't talk about them.

So ok. Let's compare and contrast the 2020 candidates.

I think Donald Trump is morally, intellectually, mentally and temperamentally unfit to hold the office of President. I believe that a president should consider the office of the presidency as larger than himself or his own ambitions; I don't believe Trump does so. I believe that a President should consider themselves President of the whole country; I believe Trump sees himself as the President of his supporters and anyone else is an enemy. I believe that the President should attempt to operate within the law; I believe Trump wants to do whatever he wants and chafes when the law disagrees [sometimes does it anyway]. I believe that Trump is a horrible human being; a narcissistic person without empathy. A person who quite literally views the worth of every other person on Earth by whether or not they like him, rather than anything else; he's the one who "fell in love" with Kim Jong-Un, remember? I believe that Trump is purely transactional, and views every negotiation as win/loss rather than trying to find win-win outcomes; I believe that if Trump was faced with the Prisoner's Dilemma, he'd sing to the cops every time and see his co-conspirator staying silent being the "sucker". I believe he is cruel and sadistic, fully comfortable "punching down", as he did when he made fun of a reporter with a disability. I believe he has no personal morality; while he is supposedly "pro-life", if evidence came out that he knocked up some floozy who he was cheating on his wife with, and he was proven to have paid for her abortion, I don't think ANYONE would be surprised at all. I believe he is a racist and a misogynist. I believe he is a nationalist, not a patriot. Policy-wise, I might consider myself closer to him that Biden, if he were even remotely "conservative" or "Republican". I don't believe he aligns very closely with traditional Republican policies. Most of the time, especially when it comes to trade, he sounds more like Bernie or Warren.

Now, I think Biden is a doddering old fool. A career politician who has never really done anything outside of Washington. However, I do believe he is an honorable man. I think he truly BELIEVES that what he is doing is public service. I truly believe he will respect the office of President as something bigger and more important than his own ambition. I think he respects the Constitution and understands that it puts limits on his power. I think his history is such that he will do his best to try to work across the aisle with Republicans to accomplish things; he will not view them as "the enemy". Personally, I believe he has empathy; the stories of him continuing to reach out to kids who suffer from a stutter are endearing. I don't think life was made easy for him; and he's suffered plenty of personal loss; I think that humbles a man. Policy-wise, I don't think I'd approve of a lot of what he does, as I didn't under Obama or Clinton. That said, I think he's basically a center-left moderate Democrat. I'm not scared that if we elect Biden that we'll be just like Cuba in 2024.

I think Biden has limitations, but I honestly believe he's going to try to surround himself with smart people and take their counsel. Trump thinks he's the only smart person in the world and surrounds himself with sycophants who blow smoke up his ass. I think Biden would probably go down in history as a "do-nothing" President, which is a HUGE improvement from our current "do-bad" President. 

Every President I can remember, from Obama to Bush-43 to Clinton to Bush-41 (I can't go back farther as I was only 10 when Bush-41 was elected), was someone who I think could faithfully discharge the responsibilities of the office. I don't believe that about Trump. Hence I'm not excited for a Biden presidency. But I'm truly terrified by a second [or third/fourth, as he's joked] term of Trump. Quite literally I don't talk much about Biden because I don't think that much of him; but I'm in ABT (anyone but Trump) mode. I believe he is THAT bad.
Again thank you for posting.  I share much of your view of Trump, although I see nothing honorable by Biden, and furthermore- don’t think he will have much to about meaningful policy after he wins( and I definitely think he will)
yes / we talk about all of those things, and invariably someone turns it into Trump bashing, not the other way around.  Take a closer look. It’s the same people.  And neither of them can even acknowledge the criticism on the left.  They just post random shit, or radical left opinions.

I come her for sports and comrades, but if they are going to continually clutter it up with their crap, I am not going to leave- I am going to debate it.  They don’t play nice. Neither do I under those circumstances.

for the record- I dread the next four years regardless.  There is a culture war going on and the election will only spike it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 04, 2020, 01:51:18 PM
I like this exercise:

https://www.adfontesmedia.com/the-chart-version-3-0-what-exactly-are-we-reading/ (https://www.adfontesmedia.com/the-chart-version-3-0-what-exactly-are-we-reading/)

https://www.adfontesmedia.com/the-chart-version-3-0-what-exactly-are-we-reading/#post/0 (https://www.adfontesmedia.com/the-chart-version-3-0-what-exactly-are-we-reading/#post/0)

Notably, the Atlantic (purveyor of this latest news) falls into the hyper-partisan/liberal circle, though it is higher on the reputability scale; close to a mirror image of the National Review.

Bloomberg (see Bolton interview) falls into the minimally partisan/fact reporting category. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2020, 02:05:30 PM
Whether he said this or not does not change my view of DT at all.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 04, 2020, 02:16:58 PM
I remember when Zell Miller backed W. and Joe Lieberman backed McCain.
And now Trump is trotting out Vernon Jones--a state legislator--as a black Democrat who supports him.

Both parties love to highlight the people from the other party who support their guy.

Nonetheless, the list of Republicans opposed to Trump is unlike anything we've seen. Trump supporters probably say that's a drain-the-swamp thing. Democrats respond with incredulity; to them (including me) Trump is the Creature from the Black Lagoon, if ever there was one.

I'm amazed at the support Trump maintains. Truly.

I agree that Biden is flawed. I think he's too old. I think he's wishy-washy on policy. I can certainly point to things he's gotten wrong in his  career as a politician. He has always been prone to gaffes (though in the world of a Trump presidency, I find the term itself quaint).

But I wholeheartedly agree with Bwar's larger point: one is a flawed, decent human being; one is a flawed sociopath.

It's merely a thought experiment, but I would hope that were the tables reversed, and the despicable human being were the Democratic candidate, I would happily vote for the decent human being.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 02:21:06 PM
Now here is the other half- the  left which to me is the choice( Not Biden) but including Biden:

They are racist, divisive, tribal,dishonest, self serving,hateful, violent, hypocritical beyond the pale, insincere, and don’t have anywhere near “ everyone’s” best interest in mind. They are petulant, retaliatory, whiny and insufferable. Other than items I view as nuts ( green new deal) I see not a single solution put forward. They excel in dividing us and criticizing others.  I think they have and will continue to destroy the constitution and the rule of law. Normally they hate the way the world is- to them all they see is doom and gloom. Now- it is ten times worse. They want chaos , violence, unemployment and anything that will get them power.  I feel that 5 of the 6 MSM outlets carry their water 
There is not a single high profile Democrat in this country that I can think of That I would trust to watch my dog for a half hour. 

Now you see why I am not voting 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2020, 02:22:33 PM
I personally do not view Biden as "decent", except perhaps with a very low bar to compare.

Trump supporters view anyone like Romney as a "RINO" and dismiss their objections as being from the Swamp, as you said.

As my vote means absolutely nothing, I'll gladly cast is for Jim Brown or someone else and be able at least to say I voted for neither.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 04, 2020, 02:22:41 PM
all it does is fire up his base
His base is already fired up, as is Biden's. Neither his base, nor Biden's, is big enough to win this election. It's the non-base that both sides worry about.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2020, 02:25:34 PM
I wondered this last time, Trump clearly has a committed base.  I don't think Biden does.  His based is that he's not Trump.  I don't know if that works in an election.  I didn't know anyone who really thought Hillary would make a good President.  I'm sure they existed, but her "base" struck me as apathetic and lukewarm, except she was female and not DT.

Obama had a base.  My wine drinking friends were all out pounding the pavement for Obama.  Not a one of them volunteered for HRC.  Not a simple one.

We got invited to a wine drinking election party with some of them.  We chose not to go.  I think the party had an adverse ending.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 04, 2020, 02:27:01 PM
As my vote means absolutely nothing, 
If your vote means absolutely nothing, who's vote means something?

The 2000 election came down to 537 votes in Florida. That's fewer than two votes per city.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2020, 02:30:32 PM
I've said it before, voting is the opiate of the masses.  I would never vote again were I alone.  The wife finds is novel, I think, and she wants to be part of the system, so I tag along.  I believe firmly my vote means nothing at all except that I can say truthfully I never voted for either of the bastages.

Voting is how the Swamp creatures keep us all amused while the Tripartite Commission has the Gang of Eight force the UN to take our guns.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 04, 2020, 02:32:20 PM
I wondered this last time, Trump clearly has a committed base.  I don't think Biden does.  His based is that he's not Trump.  I don't know if that works in an election.  I didn't know anyone who really thought Hillary would make a good President.  I'm sure they existed, but her "base" struck me as apathetic and lukewarm, except she was female and not DT.

Obama had a base.  My wine drinking friends were all out pounding the pavement for Obama.  Not a one of them volunteered for HRC.  Not a simple one.

We got invited to a wine drinking election party with some of them.  We chose not to go.  I think the party had an adverse ending.


I mostly agree. Trump's base really is his: they are people who believe in the Donald. Biden's base, such as it is, is the anti-Trump Democrats. They are much less Biden's, much more anti-Trump. H. Clinton's base was feeble, which was a problem for her. 

I think it's fair to say that the anti-Trump base is much more fired up now than it was in 2016. Evidence of that is how much the further left voters in the Democratic party have rallied to the cause. They weren't Clinton people, and they aren't Biden people, but they will be this year.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2020, 02:35:18 PM
I am not convinced the Left is going all out to support Biden.  It's not just voting, it's a matter of pounding pavement as folks did for Obama.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 04, 2020, 02:35:37 PM
I've said it before, voting is the opiate of the masses.  I would never vote again were I alone.  The wife finds is novel, I think, and she wants to be part of the system, so I tag along.  I believe firmly my vote means nothing at all except that I can say truthfully I never voted for either of the bastages.

Voting is how the Swamp creatures keep us all amused while the Tripartite Commission has the Gang of Eight force the UN to take our guns.
(https://i.imgur.com/N8ZKNKJ.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 04, 2020, 02:37:05 PM
I am not convinced the Left is going all out to support Biden.  It's not just voting, it's a matter of pounding pavement as folks did for Obama.


Not all out, but much more so than last time. There won't be a big Jill Stein contingent, and there are plenty of left-wing activists setting aside their personal agenda to pound the pavement for Biden/Harris.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2020, 02:41:25 PM
Opinions vary you have yours and others have theirs
The world would do a lot better listening to more of my opinions :96:

yes / we talk about all of those things, and invariably someone turns it into Trump bashing, not the other way around.  Take a closer look. It’s the same people.  And neither of them can even acknowledge the criticism on the left.  They just post random shit, or radical left opinions.
I just hope you delineate some of us from others. I can say that if you look at the "Trump bashing" that myself, CWS, SFBadge, BAB, Sam, etc do we can mostly back it up with reasoned opinion. There's obviously someone else here who does a lot of Trump bashing who thinks that if he is asked to justify his position it's beneath him.

I'm here to have a discussion. I am STRONGLY anti-Trump, but I'm not trying to "bash" him, more to call him out when he's doing something I consider deeply wrong, just as you call out Pelosi or Cuomo when you see them do something you consider deeply wrong.

I think it's mostly asymmetric, partly because Trump being POTUS means he's got a MUCH larger stage and a lot more attention on him than lesser pols, but also because Trump basically takes all the air out of a room and focuses everything on himself by design [that's how he got the nomination] so he becomes the topic more than lesser pols on the other side.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 04, 2020, 02:46:57 PM
I remember talking with my parents on the phone and thinking they had Southern accents ....
I've lived in places with two distinct accents, one with a harder to place one, and one of those first two had a large representation from a third region with a lot of distinct accents. 

So at this point, this Californian only half hears them. It's pretty refreshing. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2020, 02:52:13 PM
If your vote means absolutely nothing, who's vote means something?

The 2000 election came down to 537 votes in Florida. That's fewer than two votes per city.
With the electoral college, your vote only "means something" in battleground states. Here in California, we're not one of those. So whether or not I vote doesn't matter, nor does it matter who I vote for. The state is going for Biden. You can claim "well if everyone thought that way then Trump could win California", but people are predictable and everyone DOESN'T think that way--and not only that, both sides think that way, probably close to equally. Not enough in 2020 will change the way they think to put California in play. 

That said, I think this time @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) may not have noticed, but Georgia has pretty much become a battleground state instead of a solidly Red state. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2020, 02:53:54 PM
My vote means nothing.  Statistically nothing, nada, technically perhaps something so immeasurably tiny that it may as well be nothing.  I could vote for a million years and not sway a national election.

I ain't voting for either of these two "candidates", take that to the bank.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 04, 2020, 02:54:15 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-details-shooting-portland-michael-reinoehl

My condolences OAF. One of your heroes has been eliminated.  To his credit he did fire 40 or 50 rounds trying to take out law-enforcement.
This feels like a split the difference moment. On the one hand, the guy sounds like a shit. On the other, it turns out life isn't all that sacred. 

The "40 or 50 rounds" detail inspired some skepticism when I first read it because it said a pistol was recovered from him. But it appears that was edited out or I misread it. Will have to wait for some details there I suppose. No use jumping to too many conclusions. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2020, 02:58:40 PM
Witnesses claimed 4o to 50 shots, which MIGHT be 15 from one mag.  They get excited about gun fire.  And some shots were coming the other way.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 04, 2020, 03:08:08 PM
all it does is fire up his base
So the liberals actually lost?

When the lose they lose and when they win they lose, but there's also a lot of discussion about how the world isn't fair to the other side. It's almost like this is a ball of feelings and not much else. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 04, 2020, 03:11:18 PM
Witnesses claimed 4o to 50 shots, which MIGHT be 15 from one mag.  They get excited about gun fire.  And some shots were coming the other way.
I also wonder if they didn't have a great sense of when one person stopped shooting and the cops started. 

Olympia is less left-leaning than it could be, but it ain't a part of the world where many folks would have a clue the difference in such things. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 04, 2020, 03:13:13 PM
Here you go Sam- let’s play the Sam game.  But I will upgrade it to the horse mouth versus in- named sources


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-claims-black-man-invented-light-bulb-during-campaign-event
That is bad, dumb and silly on his part. I hope he does not double down and make it a thing, but instead admits a mistake with grace. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 04, 2020, 03:29:29 PM
My vote means nothing.  Statistically nothing, nada, technically perhaps something so immeasurably tiny that it may as well be nothing.  I could vote for a million years and not sway a national election.

I ain't voting for either of these two "candidates", take that to the bank.
Bwar is right about my vote and his, here in California. California's electoral college votes will go to Biden.

Your vote is statistically unlikely to mean anything, but that one time that it does, it will. Like those 537 people in Florida. And the likelihood that a single vote in Georgia matters for the outcome of this presidential election is much higher than a vote in California. It also gets back to our discussion of what statistics mean: all the statistics tell you is the likely outcome, not the actual outcome.

It also goes to what We the People means. If your overall view is that you have no say in the election of your elected representatives, or that whatever happens in a particular election makes no difference to what happens to the nation, what is the point of our Constitution? Is it an opiate of the masses? Did we really just exchange the English monarchy for a different form of oligarchy, in which our corporate overlords rule without our input?

Your decision not to vote for either presidential candidate is yours to make, but it does matter. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 04, 2020, 03:58:07 PM
That is bad, dumb and silly on his part. I hope he does not double down and make it a thing, but instead admits a mistake with grace.
Meh. Thomas Edison didn't invent the light bulb. So Biden is at least half right.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2020, 04:27:14 PM
That is bad, dumb and silly on his part. I hope he does not double down and make it a thing, but instead admits a mistake with grace.
Meh. Thomas Edison didn't invent the light bulb. So Biden is at least half right.
Well, Edison did patent a version of the light bulb.

A black inventor later made it much more commercially viable through extremely important improvements, though. And had patents on his improvements.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/biden-edison-invented-light-bulb-racial-justice-history-latimer-a9705716.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/biden-edison-invented-light-bulb-racial-justice-history-latimer-a9705716.html)

So, yeah, we'll call it a gaffe. Should have said that better.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2020, 04:30:32 PM
The chances my single vote is decisive are so remote I might as well buy lottery tickets.  Come on, it'll never happen.  If it does, I'll apologize, but I ain't votin' for either of these two buckos.

I can't do it.  I would much rather stay home and not vote at all.

A lot of things in life are not worth my time and effort, and for me, voting makes that list.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2020, 04:36:21 PM
The chances my single vote is decisive are so remote I might as well buy lottery tickets.  Come on, it'll never happen.  If it does, I'll apologize, but I ain't votin' for either of these two buckos.

I can't do it.  I would much rather stay home and not vote at all.

A lot of things in life are not worth my time and effort, and for me, voting makes that list.
I get it. Rational ignorance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_ignorance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_ignorance)

How much worth is there for you to expend the time and effort to argue with us about not voting? :57:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2020, 04:51:41 PM
I derive some entertainment value by exchanging ideas here.  I do not by voting.

Y'all go vote, and proudly wear your I VOTED sticker, it's fine with me.  If everyone thought as I did, we'd be in a helluva mess for any number of reasons.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2020, 04:53:50 PM
I derive some entertainment value by exchanging ideas here.  I do not by voting.

Y'all go vote, and proudly wear your I VOTED sticker, it's fine with me.  If everyone thought as I did, we'd be in a helluva mess for any number of reasons.
Well that's no way to get yourself a job in Badge's cabinet...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 04, 2020, 04:54:23 PM
That is bad, dumb and silly on his part. I hope he does not double down and make it a thing, but instead admits a mistake with grace.
He may have meant Garrett Morgan from here in Cleveland


https://www.livescience.com/57231-who-invented-the-traffic-light.html
However, the credit for the "first electric traffic signal" usually goes to James Hoge (https://www.google.com/patents/US1251666). A system based on his design was installed on Aug. 5, 1914, in Cleveland. Hoge received a patent for the system in 1918. (He had filed his application in 1913.) Hoge's traffic signal used the alternating illuminated words "stop" and "move" installed on a single post on each of the four corners of an intersection. The system was wired such that police and fire departments could adjust the rhythm of the lights in case of an emergency.
William Ghiglieri (https://www.google.com/patents/US1224632) of San Francisco patented the first automatic traffic signal that used red and green lights in 1917. Ghiglieri's design had the option of being either automatic or manual. 

Then in 1920, William Potts (http://www.marktraffic.com/traffic-lights-invented-by-william-l-potts.php), a Detroit police officer, developed several automatic traffic light systems, including the first three-color signal, which added a yellow "caution" light.

In 1923, Garrett Morgan (https://www.google.com/patents/US1475024?) patented an electric automatic traffic signal. Morgan was the first African-American to own a car in Cleveland. He also invented the gas mask. Morgan's design used a T-shaped pole unit with three positions. Besides "Stop" and "Go," the system also first stopped traffic in all directions to give drivers time to stop or get through the intersection. Another benefit of Morgan's design was that it could be produced inexpensively, thus increasing the number of signals that could be installed. Morgan sold the rights to his traffic signal to General Electric for $40,000.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2020, 04:54:37 PM
Interestingly, when we dine out, I pick something quickly.  The wife used to dawdle over the menu fretting about whether she wanted X or Y.  She sorta got the message.

Have your money in hand and your order in mind.

Pick something off the menu, anything, avoid what you know you don't like, and just pick whatever strikes your fancy.  Get'er done.  Stop anguishing over whether you slightly prefer A over B.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 04, 2020, 04:56:24 PM
  If everyone thought as I did, we'd be in a helluva mess for any number of reasons.
Sure as hell couldn't pitch on the Senior Circuit.The Older league not the National League
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 04, 2020, 04:57:29 PM
and just pick whatever strikes your fancy.  Get'er done.  Stop anguishing over whether you slightly prefer A over B.
Remember that when you're buying tires
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 04, 2020, 05:00:16 PM
The chances my single vote is decisive are so remote I might as well buy lottery tickets.  Come on, it'll never happen.  If it does, I'll apologize, but I ain't votin' for either of these two buckos.
Me neither who do the Libertarians have on the ticket.....Maybe I'll just stick to the Canidates/issues on the state/local level
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2020, 05:04:44 PM
Remember that when you're buying tires
I do pay some attention to tire choices, usually checking Tire Rack.  But I buy tires rarely, so 10 minutes spent on line could save me $417.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 04, 2020, 05:07:25 PM
As we talk about anonymous sources, I'm reminded of some chat we had where an anonymous Twitter egg purported to work at a morgue or some such thing while tweeting at a political provocateur. The tweet was taken with some measure of seriousness by a person or two, saying "well, if he actually had that job, he couldn't go public and keep it." 

I try to be moderately skeptical and not flip my lid too much at such things. Hopefully I'm doing an OK job.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 04, 2020, 05:17:12 PM
Meh. Thomas Edison didn't invent the light bulb. So Biden is at least half right.
he didn't come up with the concept but he's the 1st one to put it to practical use.Of course tesla refined things with his AC current.C'mon Sam that's like saying you don't have a Law degree but are a carnival barker at the county hog calling contest.I'll look past that obvious gaffe as you are a Buckeye in good standing or in your case with the Oktoberfests - sitting
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 04, 2020, 05:22:32 PM
he didn't come up with the concept but he's the 1st one to put it to practical use.Of course tesla refined things with his AC current.C'mon Sam that's like saying you don't have a Law degree but are a carnival barker at the county hog calling contest.I'll look past that obvious gaffe as you are a Buckeye in good standing or in your case with the Oktoberfests - sitting
I could only dream of being a carnival barker
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2020, 05:24:39 PM
About the Trump comments, whether he said them or not, the fact some of us think he well may have is rather telling.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 04, 2020, 05:25:16 PM
https://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC/status/1301975321495973889?s=20
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 04, 2020, 05:29:44 PM
I could only dream of being a carnival barker
In the early part of the last century I think Ringling Brothers would be more than happy to have me.Riding the rails with the circus - hellz Ya.Long as they lock up the Big Cats and leave my Oktoberfests alone
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 04, 2020, 05:38:13 PM
I do pay some attention to tire choices, usually checking Tire Rack.  But I buy tires rarely, so 10 minutes spent on line could save me $417.


Had a flat tire today.  While this wasn’t my first flat tire this was the first flat I’ve ever had to fix on the side of the road.  Had two different people within a span of 5 minutes who stopped and asked if I needed help.  Restored my faith in humanity...    ...a little.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 06:01:42 PM
https://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC/status/1301975321495973889?s=20
Fake news.  2 in- named sources in the trump administration already debunked. 

 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 04, 2020, 06:13:41 PM
Except that Fox News is reporting some confirmation of the story:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-didnt-cancel-visit-to-american-military-cemetery-in-france-over-disdain-for-slain-veterans-sources-say (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-didnt-cancel-visit-to-american-military-cemetery-in-france-over-disdain-for-slain-veterans-sources-say)

The sources Fox News is relying on confirm the basic tenor of the Atlantic article, if not the specific detail related to Belleau Wood: that Trump does not understand and respect military sacrifice.

I found this part of Fox News's reporting the most interesting:
"Separately, this former official also heard the president say of American veterans: "What’s in it for them? They don’t make any money?" Multiple sources have confirmed Trump said something to this effect during a 2017 visit at Arlington cemetery, as described in the Atlantic piece, though one insisted Trump was not being derogatory."

If it wasn't derogatory (and maybe--!?!--it wasn't), it shows a fundamental lack of understanding of military service.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 04, 2020, 06:24:40 PM
Had a flat tire today.  While this wasn’t my first flat tire this was the first flat I’ve ever had to fix on the side of the road.  Had two different people within a span of 5 minutes who stopped and asked if I needed help.  Restored my faith in humanity...    ...a little.
Changing one's own tire makes you feel tremendously productive. 

Then the times someone gets called for some reason or another, you think, "Man, that good equipment makes it a whole lot easier."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 06:29:17 PM
Except that Fox News is reporting some confirmation of the story:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-didnt-cancel-visit-to-american-military-cemetery-in-france-over-disdain-for-slain-veterans-sources-say (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-didnt-cancel-visit-to-american-military-cemetery-in-france-over-disdain-for-slain-veterans-sources-say)

The sources Fox News is relying on confirm the basic tenor of the Atlantic article, if not the specific detail related to Belleau Wood: that Trump does not understand and respect military sacrifice.

I found this part of Fox News's reporting the most interesting:
"Separately, this former official also heard the president say of American veterans: "What’s in it for them? They don’t make any money?" Multiple sources have confirmed Trump said something to this effect during a 2017 visit at Arlington cemetery, as described in the Atlantic piece, though one insisted Trump was not being derogatory."

If it wasn't derogatory (and maybe--!?!--it wasn't), it shows a fundamental lack of understanding of military service.
I read the whole thing. You have Trump people saying it never got said- AND Bolton confirming the Atlantic article about why he did not attend, completely false.
you guys sure try hard to paint the picture you want.  But your not changing anyone’s mind on this.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2020, 06:34:25 PM
Here's two, named, on-record: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/04/trump-soldiers-tammy-duckworth-joe-biden (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/04/trump-soldiers-tammy-duckworth-joe-biden)


Quote
Both Elizabeth Neumann (https://twitter.com/NeuSummits/status/1301694751675240449), a former assistant secretary of counter-terrorism in the Department of Homeland Security, and Miles Taylor (https://twitter.com/MilesTaylorUSA/status/1301649398485655555), a former chief of staff in that department, said the account was true, asserting that Trump’s low opinion of soldiers killed and wounded in combat was well-known inside the administration.
I don't know who they are, or whether they were physically there and can corroborate firsthand knowledge. 


But they're saying it's true, by name.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2020, 06:35:42 PM
But your not changing anyone’s mind on this.
Probably true. Which is its own problem.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 04, 2020, 06:36:47 PM
Fox News is relying on its own sources, not the Atlantic's, to confirm key parts of the story, and definitely the general tenor. So yeah, I think that carries some weight.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 04, 2020, 06:40:59 PM
Both Neumann and Taylor were officials in the Trump administration--both loyal Republicans and conservatives--who resigned, really don't like Trump, and are associated with organizations committed to defeating Trump in November. They certainly aren't free from bias, but they also have strong conservative/Republican credentials.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 04, 2020, 06:42:59 PM
Fake news.  2 in- named sources in the trump administration already debunked.

 
If there is one thing this administration is known for, it's unerring honesty
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 04, 2020, 06:43:40 PM
Sam, that made me actually chuckle. A literal LOL. Kudos.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2020, 06:44:49 PM
If there is one thing this administration is known for, it's unerring honesty
"It's fake news!"


Ahh, shit. He got us.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 04, 2020, 06:45:21 PM
https://twitter.com/rebeccaballhaus/status/1302006954328494081?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 06:59:35 PM
Sam, that made me actually chuckle. A literal LOL. Kudos.
Me too.  I think of Schiff, Schurmur, Pelosi, Nadler.  Their lies have been openly proven.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 07:02:37 PM
Here's two, named, on-record: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/04/trump-soldiers-tammy-duckworth-joe-biden (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/04/trump-soldiers-tammy-duckworth-joe-biden)

I don't know who they are, or whether they were physically there and can corroborate firsthand knowledge.


But they're saying it's true, by name.
No.  Read man. They are not corroborating  anything-other than making an accusation of a general atmosphere In the White House.

They are both vehemently outspoken critic of Trump,  And their claim about the atmosphere has numerous current White House staff totally disagreeing with every word they say.

guess what- more fake news. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2020, 07:03:36 PM
Me too.  I think of Schiff, Schurmur, Pelosi, Nadler.  Their lies have been openly proven.
HB, can you explain to me, and I'm asking you as earnestly as you asked me to explain some of the things in the last day...

For someone who doesn't plan to vote for Trump, and doesn't seem to be a big fan of him, why do you defend him so vociferously? 

I don't quite get it. And I'm honestly and sincerely interested.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 07:05:53 PM
For as much as a buffoon Trump is- the shit you guys put in this forum only grows my hatred and distrust for Democrats.  Kavanaugh anyone?

If any of you would put 1/10 of the energy that TDS has gripped you with into proposing solutions it might help.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2020, 07:09:33 PM
No.  Read man. They are not corroborating  anything-other than making an accusation of a general atmosphere In the White House.

They are both vehemently outspoken critic of Trump,  And their claim about the atmosphere has numerous current White House staff totally disagreeing with every word they say.

guess what- more fake news.
Again, read it...



Quote
The Atlantic magazine published a story (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/09/trump-americans-who-died-at-war-are-losers-and-suckers/615997/) on Thursday based on four sources close to the president who said Trump cancelled a visit to pay respects at an American military cemetery outside Paris in 2018 because he thought the dead soldiers were “losers” and “suckers” and he did not want the rain to mess up his hair.

Both Elizabeth Neumann (https://twitter.com/NeuSummits/status/1301694751675240449), a former assistant secretary of counter-terrorism in the Department of Homeland Security, and Miles Taylor (https://twitter.com/MilesTaylorUSA/status/1301649398485655555), a former chief of staff in that department, said the account was true, asserting that Trump’s low opinion of soldiers killed and wounded in combat was well-known inside the administration.

The language is clear. The writer is first and foremost referring to the account of Paris 2018 allegations, and saying both of these people "said the account was true". 

Language-wise, the follow up of "asserting that Trump's low opinion of soldiers" et cetera is an add-on. 

It's like saying "yeah, I shot that dude, plus he was a well-known asshole". You can't claim that statement was purely about the dude being a well-known asshole and then act like the "I shot that dude" wasn't stated.

Again, if the writer is flat out lying and misrepresenting what these two NAMED sources have said, I'm sure they'll step up and say "that's not what I told the reporter". But you as a reader can't simple read that and say that they were an accusation of general atmosphere, the way the sentence is written. That's not how English works, and would hope that writers for The Guardian, a British rag, would know their own language. 

Now, yes they're outspoken critics of Trump. Maybe because they directly saw behavior like this from him and have reason to be critics? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2020, 07:12:16 PM
For as much as a buffoon Trump is- the shit you guys put in this forum only grows my hatred and distrust for Democrats.  Kavanaugh anyone?

If any of you would put 1/10 of the energy that TDS has gripped you with into proposing solutions it might help.
First of all, I'm not a Democrat. Not even close. Neither is CWS, who has also been attacked for speaking out in this thread. 

But you didn't answer my question.

You have me and CWS, who are both closer to right-wing or at least right-adjacent, speaking out why we oppose Trump. Yet you, who don't like him, and don't plan to vote for him, are picking up the standard to defend him. I honestly do not understand why. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 07:17:42 PM
HB, can you explain to me, and I'm asking you as earnestly as you asked me to explain some of the things in the last day...

For someone who doesn't plan to vote for Trump, and doesn't seem to be a big fan of him, why do you defend him so vociferously?

I don't quite get it. And I'm honestly and sincerely interested.
See post below- Which I sent before you even posed this question but clearly answers the question.

We have already discussed this but to rehash, like you I was hopeful that his election, being an outsider and not a career politician, would have some positives to it. The liberals in the media began their attacks long before he took office. It’s a 24 seven attack cycle and has been every single day of his presidency. They cannot acknowledge A single positive thing that he has accomplished, which in my view there are quite a few. No political figure in modern history has had as much of the media against him working diligently to undermine him since before he took office and then this poor guy has. And while you guys will try to deny that I firmly believe you’re being dishonest and you all know that. There really is no disputing it.

after I voted for Obama, and he and that entire party turned me off to such a high degree, this despicable treatment from the media has just made me sicker by the day. 
It’s not that you criticize him correctly, which you do but seriously how can I take anything you guys say seriously when you’re trying to blame him for things that clearly could or should be blamed on the left?

To Trump, The media are attack dogs and have been since day one.  To Biden, they are lapdogs. They won’t ask him any questions and when they do their huge fat softballs. 

it is clear to me and many many many others that the liberal playbook is to do bad things and then try to paint a picture that he is the cause of those things. Over and over and over.


Was it you that said you’re surprised he has so much support?  Stop and take a look at what the “other side “is offering?  It’s all one great big huge turn off. 

if Trump wasn’t such a dick, or if he was just half as much of a dick as he is, I would definitely be voting for him just to stop the left agenda which I just hate.  But I have to look in the mirror and I know I can’t do that if I vote for him and I definitely can’t do that if I vote for the “other side“
it will be interesting to me when he’s out of office next year how much of things that might not go well or go wrong the Democrats will still be trying to blame on him. I’m going to guess it will go on for years.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2020, 07:19:21 PM
 what is the point of our Constitution? Is it an opiate of the masses? Did we really just exchange the English monarchy for a different form of oligarchy, in which our corporate overlords rule without our input?

Your decision not to vote for either presidential candidate is yours to make, but it does matter.
The DNC and RNC are co-ruling monarchies.  A duarchy or whatever.  The way they press this button for a candidate and don't pull that leverl for a candidate is the most influential entity in the voter-representative process.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 04, 2020, 07:19:30 PM
I'm genuinely impressed that Trump, in trying to deny a rumor that he disparages military people, claims it was probably the respected four star general in the Marines and his former chief of staff who started that rumor, then proceeds to disparage him.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2020, 07:22:41 PM
  But your not changing anyone’s mind on this.
Exactly.  That's the problem, but you view it as a positive.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 04, 2020, 07:22:45 PM
I love the whole "Trump disparages Military members" routine. 

The Left subjected Tulsi Gabbard to McCarthyism, branding her as a Russian Agent while she was actively serving. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 07:25:53 PM
First of all, I'm not a Democrat. Not even close. Neither is CWS, who has also been attacked for speaking out in this thread.

But you didn't answer my question.

You have me and CWS, who are both closer to right-wing or at least right-adjacent, speaking out why we oppose Trump. Yet you, who don't like him, and don't plan to vote for him, are picking up the standard to defend him. I honestly do not understand why.
My whole life has been I am “that guy“ that stands up to the bully. Although you guys think Trump is the bully I firmly believe the media is the bully and in many cases the Democratic Party is the bully. 

mostly it comes down to narratives versus facts.  I can give you 1 million examples but you have them all, but remember when he tweeted about the race car driver and the noose? I was so critical of him and that was such a moronic, stupid, idiotic thing for him to say.  Even if that was defensible, which it wasn’t, I would not defend him.  But I cannot defend how these big city mayors have condone violence by tacitly encouraging it through press conferences, releasing those who have been arrested, refusing to do what they need to do to protect the businesses and the innocent people who live there, And then I have to come on here and read what CNN says about how that’s his fault which we all know it’s total bullshit.

And then I see made up shit being posted which has multiple sides claiming truth or false, and I am a firm believer that that’s stuff that shouldn’t be posted.



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 07:27:29 PM
Exactly.  That's the problem, but you view it as a positive. 
Not necessarily. I am not changing anyone’s mind here nor do I think I have the ability or desire to. That is my point. People have their opinions as they should but why are we on here throwing mud as opposed to just discussing policies and issues. You’re the worst offender and Sam is number two. You just can’t let an hour go by without posting some bullshit about how much you hate POTUS.  That’s what is ruining this place
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2020, 07:27:36 PM
 No political figure in modern history has had as much of the media against him working diligently to undermine him since before he took office and then this poor guy has. 

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSD-njXfyyI2idYt2zxxPm5-WlUoS7mcFEGaw&usqp=CAU)

W.......T.........F.........?
Poor Trump, as if he hasn't brought it all on himself with his every waking breath.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2020, 07:28:16 PM
I love the whole "Trump disparages Military members" routine.

The Left subjected Tulsi Gabbard to McCarthyism, branding her as a Russian Agent while she was actively serving.
I like her.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 07:28:20 PM
I love the whole "Trump disparages Military members" routine.

The Left subjected Tulsi Gabbard to McCarthyism, branding her as a Russian Agent while she was actively serving.
That’s what the left does. That is their calling card
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 04, 2020, 07:29:56 PM
You’re missing my point. I’m not trying to defend Trump.

once again the thread is moving along nicely without politics and Sam throws in a completely unverified bullshit rumor which proves to not be true, while  we have the most high ranking members of the opposition party running around on tape doing things that are horrible and saying things that are fomenting violence, which just happens to be factual —but what he and others are always accusing POTUS of.

I am simply pointing out the glaring hypocrisy.
But it didn't turn out not to be true.  The White House spokesman denied the story.  Given this administration, a denial means very little beyond "that story makes the boss look bad."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 07:30:10 PM
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSD-njXfyyI2idYt2zxxPm5-WlUoS7mcFEGaw&usqp=CAU)

W.......T.........F.........?
Poor Trump, as if he hasn't brought it all on himself with his every waking breath. 
So, when Madonna stood there on inauguration day and talked about burning down the White House? Do you think he deserve that?  And Antifa was rioting and breaking windows before he took office- you think he deserved that?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 07:31:47 PM
But it didn't turn out not to be true.  The White House spokesman denied the story.  Given this administration, a denial means very little beyond "that story makes the boss look bad."
I call BS.  

and if you’re comparing this administration to the media as far as truth telling the media loses big-time.  That’s why 84% of Americans, during the last gallop poll last month, said they do not trust the media.   That’s why 84% of Americans, during the last Gallup poll last month, said they do not trust the media.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2020, 07:32:55 PM
Not necessarily. I am not changing anyone’s mind here nor do I think I have the ability or desire to. That is my point. People have their opinions as they should but why are we on here throwing mud as opposed to just discussing policies and issues. You’re the worst offender and Sam is number two. You just can’t let an hour go by without posting some bullshit about how much you hate POTUS.  That’s what is ruining this place
The excerpt I pulled from your post was about our inability to change YOUR mind.  You let any and every FACT just bounce off.  
Trump isn't the problem, it's people who think he's the right option over ANY other citizen chosen at random.  This might be eye-opening for you, but a person doesn't have to hate Trump to label his exploits as being inept, incompetent, absurd, racist, selfish, or adolescent.  Those are the obvious ones.  Hell you can like Trump and acknowledge that he might be the most self-serving human on the planet.  

But I'm the problem.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 07:33:10 PM
I like her.
If she was the Democratic candidate I would not only vote for her I would be trying to persuade others to do so. 

Hillary-nostra snuffed her out. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 04, 2020, 07:33:34 PM
Not necessarily. I am not changing anyone’s mind here nor do I think I have the ability or desire to. That is my point. People have their opinions as they should but why are we on here throwing mud as opposed to just discussing policies and issues. You’re the worst offender and Sam is number two. You just can’t let an hour go by without posting some bullshit about how much you hate POTUS.  That’s what is ruining this place
????  I mean I think Trump is in way over his head, but I'm not sure how linking a national story is "posting some bullshit"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 07:34:30 PM
The excerpt I pulled from your post was about our inability to change YOUR mind.  You let any and every FACT just bounce off. 
Trump isn't the problem, it's people who think he's the right option over ANY other citizen chosen at random.  This might be eye-opening for you, but a person doesn't have to hate Trump to label his exploits as being inept, incompetent, absurd, racist, selfish, or adolescent.  Those are the obvious ones.  Hell you can like Trump and acknowledge that he might be the most self-serving human on the planet. 

But I'm the problem.
This may shock you. Millions of people who can’t stand him voted for him anyway and will again this time because of what the other side has to offer or should I say not offer.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2020, 07:34:58 PM
So, when Madonna stood there on inauguration day and talked about burning down the White House? Do you think he deserve that?  And Antifa was rioting and breaking windows before he took office- you think he deserved that?
Were the antifa breaking his windows?  I'm confused.  And you're bringing them up because.....reasons?  Yes, the left absolutely, 100% has a radical wing vying for power.  But they carved out 2 city blocks for a few weeks.  The radical person I take issue with is in the White House.  

A little different, no?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2020, 07:35:03 PM
See post below- Which I sent before you even posed this question but clearly answers the question.

We have already discussed this but to rehash, like you I was hopeful that his election, being an outsider and not a career politician, would have some positives to it. The liberals in the media began their attacks long before he took office. It’s a 24 seven attack cycle and has been every single day of his presidency. They cannot acknowledge A single positive thing that he has accomplished, which in my view there are quite a few. No political figure in modern history has had as much of the media against him working diligently to undermine him since before he took office and then this poor guy has. And while you guys will try to deny that I firmly believe you’re being dishonest and you all know that. There really is no disputing it.

after I voted for Obama, and he and that entire party turned me off to such a high degree, this despicable treatment from the media has just made me sicker by the day. 
It’s not that you criticize him correctly, which you do but seriously how can I take anything you guys say seriously when you’re trying to blame him for things that clearly could or should be blamed on the left?

To Trump, The media are attack dogs and have been since day one.  To Biden, they are lapdogs. They won’t ask him any questions and when they do their huge fat softballs. 

it is clear to me and many many many others that the liberal playbook is to do bad things and then try to paint a picture that he is the cause of those things. Over and over and over.


Was it you that said you’re surprised he has so much support?  Stop and take a look at what the “other side “is offering?  It’s all one great big huge turn off. 

if Trump wasn’t such a dick, or if he was just half as much of a dick as he is, I would definitely be voting for him just to stop the left agenda which I just hate.  But I have to look in the mirror and I know I can’t do that if I vote for him and I definitely can’t do that if I vote for the “other side“
it will be interesting to me when he’s out of office next year how much of things that might not go well or go wrong the Democrats will still be trying to blame on him. I’m going to guess it will go on for years.
So you're saying your defense of Trump is something akin to liking a good underdog story? Because everyone else bullies poor, defenseless Donnie, you feel bad for him?

I admit the media has painted a big target on Trump. Part of that is simply covering him. The press attacks him for lying, because he lies. The press attacks him for being a bully, because he's a bully. The press attacks him for carrying water for racists, because he carries water for racists. 

I'm not saying I want to buy what the left is selling. But the right is selling all-Trump all-day, and I look at what he's selling and I'm repulsed. There is no line that he crosses that they'll call him out on it. Anyone who dares is excommunicated, even accomplished folks with decades-long service careers like Mattis, Kelly, and Colin Powell.

I can't defend the silver spoon as an underdog. I don't get it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2020, 07:36:33 PM
I call BS. 

and if you’re comparing this administration to the media as far as truth telling the media loses big-time.  That’s why 84% of Americans, during the last gallop poll last month, said they do not trust the media.  That’s why 84% of Americans, during the last Gallup poll last month, said they do not trust the media.
No no no no no......a poll doesn't tell you what's actually true.  What are you thinking here??  Why have you continued on further into the maze???
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 04, 2020, 07:36:53 PM
I can’t believe you asked this?  Mr. Goldberg is the same one who claims Trump had many strokes on his hospital visit. I suppose you believe that one too right LOL.

and please stop defending the other slime. The fact is the perception of the degree of sliminess of Trump is directly correlated to those who have helped him build that reputation.

The media has played up Pelosi continually saying Trump is a science denier. Don’t just write off the fact that the highest ranking Democrat is the real science denier and a slimy piece of you know what. Just a few days ago she claimed he slapped science in the face while she was mask list and going into a business that she put out of business.
And then you have Cuomo, the media darling, who botched the pandemic by far worse than anyone and truly is directly responsible for many deaths. Some thing you accuse trump of. And he was clearly calling for violence. You don’t just get to write that off sorry

if people are going to bring stuff like that in to the forum then people are going to counter act that with facts. 
lastly please quit saying they’re not running for president. Don’t try convincing me and others that the guy with dementia that can’t complete a sentence is truly going to be the leader of the free world.
I haven't defended Pelosi and Cuomo.  I called them "slime."  That is not defending them.  I do not cite or quote them as evidence for anything about Donald Trump.  But--though you don't like hearing it--they aren't running for president.  Joe Biden is.
I believe that both Trump and Biden are suffering from dementia.  Neither of them can get through a complex presentation without making major flubs.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 07:38:01 PM
Were the antifa breaking his windows?  I'm confused.  And you're bringing them up because.....reasons?  Yes, the left absolutely, 100% has a radical wing vying for power.  But they carved out 2 city blocks for a few weeks.  The radical person I take issue with is in the White House. 

A little different, no?
Well this totally renders your other answer is false. If you say he brings it on himself but you agree with the anarchist raising hell before he even took office it’s kind a hard to say he brought that out and isn’t it?  So yes that makes you and people like you the exact problem. If you don’t get your way on the political side your answer is violence and disruption.  And that’s what you do on this forum. You just can’t go a matter of minutes without having to come on here and throw flames at POTUS even though you know many people already agree with you and many people don’t and you’re not going to change anyone’s mind. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2020, 07:38:45 PM
????  I mean I think Trump is in way over his head, but I'm not sure how linking a national story is "posting some bullshit"
According to HB, we're all to act as if we're White House interns.  We mustn't post anything even questioning the greatness of his royal highness, King Trump.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2020, 07:39:22 PM
My whole life has been I am “that guy“ that stands up to the bully. Although you guys think Trump is the bully I firmly believe the media is the bully and in many cases the Democratic Party is the bully. 

mostly it comes down to narratives versus facts.  I can give you 1 million examples but you have them all, but remember when he tweeted about the race car driver and the noose? I was so critical of him and that was such a moronic, stupid, idiotic thing for him to say.  Even if that was defensible, which it wasn’t, I would not defend him.  But I cannot defend how these big city mayors have condone violence by tacitly encouraging it through press conferences, releasing those who have been arrested, refusing to do what they need to do to protect the businesses and the innocent people who live there, And then I have to come on here and read what CNN says about how that’s his fault which we all know it’s total bullshit.

And then I see made up shit being posted which has multiple sides claiming truth or false, and I am a firm believer that that’s stuff that shouldn’t be posted.




So, when Madonna stood there on inauguration day and talked about burning down the White House? Do you think he deserve that?  And Antifa was rioting and breaking windows before he took office- you think he deserved that?
Wow... You really do think he's the underdog...

This is what I'm talking about with different realities. I literally cannot even fathom a world where that is the case. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2020, 07:40:18 PM
Well this totally renders your other answer is false. If you say he brings it on himself but you agree with the anarchist raising hell before he even took office it’s kind a hard to say he brought that out and isn’t it?  So yes that makes you and people like you the exact problem. If you don’t get your way on the political side your answer is violence and disruption.  And that’s what you do on this forum. You just can’t go a matter of minutes without having to come on here and throw flames at POTUS even though you know many people already agree with you and many people don’t and you’re not going to change anyone’s mind. 
Trump existed before he took office, friend.  I don't know what else to say about that.


Wow, I'm violent now?  That's news to me.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2020, 07:40:37 PM
Wow... You really do think he's the underdog...

This is what I'm talking about with different realities. I literally cannot even fathom a world where that is the case.
We're the problem, shhhh.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 07:41:37 PM
So you're saying your defense of Trump is something akin to liking a good underdog story? Because everyone else bullies poor, defenseless Donnie, you feel bad for him?

I admit the media has painted a big target on Trump. Part of that is simply covering him. The press attacks him for lying, because he lies. The press attacks him for being a bully, because he's a bully. The press attacks him for carrying water for racists, because he carries water for racists.

I'm not saying I want to buy what the left is selling. But the right is selling all-Trump all-day, and I look at what he's selling and I'm repulsed. There is no line that he crosses that they'll call him out on it. Anyone who dares is excommunicated, even accomplished folks with decades-long service careers like Mattis, Kelly, and Colin Powell.

I can't defend the silver spoon as an underdog. I don't get it.
I usually appreciate things that you post but this time I’m gonna have to disagree with most of this. I never called him poor Donnie. That’s just you being bombastic and insulting.

do you think it’s all Trump all day and that’s what the rate is selling and you could not be further from the truth. People that like trump or will vote for him even if they don’t like him see him as the only thing standing between the far left agenda which seems to be rapidly taking over.

there are people that are not OK with employees allowing Black Lives Matter masks but not masks of the American flag. Lots of people are not OK with that.  Trump just happens to be the only one with the balls to stand up and say that that’s wrong.  Yes you’ll call him racist and divisive for saying that but you’re just wrong.  So it’s not that it’s about him as much as what he stands for relative to the left.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2020, 07:41:51 PM
If you acknowledge your mind cannot be changed, you've lost.  You're irrelevant.  

My mind can be changed about nearly anything.  But not yours, admittedly.  You've become indoctrined.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 07:43:09 PM
Wow... You really do think he's the underdog...

This is what I'm talking about with different realities. I literally cannot even fathom a world where that is the case.
People who believe in the Second Amendment, controlling our borders, law and order, fair trade deals, and not necessarily believe in choir long politicians are the underdog. He is horrible at it because it is horrible communication skills but he’s the only one speaking for those people.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2020, 07:43:36 PM
I usually appreciate things that you post but this time I’m gonna have to disagree with most of this. I never called him poor Donnie. That’s just you being bombastic and insulting.

do you think it’s all Trump all day and that’s what the rate is selling and you could not be further from the truth. People that like trump or will vote for him even if they don’t like him see him as the only thing standing between the far left agenda which seems to be rapidly taking over.

there are people that are not OK with employees allowing Black Lives Matter masks but not masks of the American flag. Lots of people are not OK with that.  Trump just happens to be the only one with the balls to stand up and say that that’s wrong.  Yes you’ll call him racist and divisive for saying that but you’re just wrong.  So it’s not that it’s about him as much as what he stands for relative to the left.


You literally put "poor guy".  

You type here, "there are people...."  who?!?  Who is okay with BLM masks, but not American flag masks?  Who are they?  Where are they?  


Annnnnnnnnnd you cite his balls.  Big balls.  Trump's balls.  THANK YOU FOR REVEALING YOUR INSANITY.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 07:43:56 PM
We're the problem, shhhh.
No.  Not  “we’re”
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 07:45:34 PM
I haven't defended Pelosi and Cuomo.  I called them "slime."  That is not defending them.  I do not cite or quote them as evidence for anything about Donald Trump.  But--though you don't like hearing it--they aren't running for president.  Joe Biden is.
I believe that both Trump and Biden are suffering from dementia.  Neither of them can get through a complex presentation without making major flubs.
We will have to agree to disagree on if Biden is really running for president.  I say not even close.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2020, 07:47:04 PM
People who believe in the Second Amendment, controlling our borders, law and order, fair trade deals, and not necessarily believe in choir long politicians are the underdog. He is horrible at it because it is horrible communication skills but he’s the only one speaking for those people.
HAHAHAHAHAHAa........this is what it's all about.  Not that Trump is the underdog, but the conservative white man is!  Amazing!  

The subset of our population that has always been the president.
The subset of our population that has always been the vice president.
The subset of our population that comprises 95% of the Fortune 500 CEOs.
And on
and on
and on


Poor fellas.  I had no idea that I, ME, am the underdog.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2020, 07:47:44 PM
We will have to agree to disagree on if Biden is really running for president.  I say not even close.
What's the name of your planet?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 07:48:07 PM
According to HB, we're all to act as if we're White House interns.  We mustn't post anything even questioning the greatness of his royal highness, King Trump.
Don’t you have a riotto go to tonight?  Isn’t there some innocent cop you can shoot or some old lady defending her jewelry store that you can meet up with a wooden 2 x 4?    Go away the adults are speaking here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 04, 2020, 07:48:09 PM

there are people that are not OK with employees allowing Black Lives Matter masks but not masks of the American flag. 

Who isn't allowing masks of the American flag?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2020, 07:49:23 PM
Don’t you have a riotto go to tonight?  Isn’t there some innocent cop you can shoot or some old lady defending her jewelry store that you can meet up with a wooden 2 x 4?    Go away the adults are speaking here.
Do you hate that I'm not the caricature you've been spoon-fed?  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 07:49:29 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAa........this is what it's all about.  Not that Trump is the underdog, but the conservative white man is!  Amazing! 

The subset of our population that has always been the president.
The subset of our population that has always been the vice president.
The subset of our population that comprises 95% of the Fortune 500 CEOs.
And on
and on
and on


Poor fellas.  I had no idea that I, ME, am the underdog. 
Oh..... your racism sprouting again. You are repugnant 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2020, 07:49:56 PM
Who isn't allowing masks of the American flag?
Hang up and listen....but don't hold your breath.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 07:50:30 PM
Do you hate that I'm not the caricature you've been spoon-fed? 
But you are. I pray every day for the children being infected by your twisted mind.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2020, 07:50:37 PM
Oh..... your racism sprouting again. You are repugnant
I'm white.  Again, the boogeyman you've been sold isn't me, friend.

And your every post isolates you further and further from the rest of us.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 07:52:54 PM
I'm white.  Again, the boogeyman you've been sold isn't me, friend.

And your every post isolates you further and further from the rest of us.
Ha.  Says the forum moron.  I don’t think so. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2020, 07:53:05 PM
People who believe in the Second Amendment, controlling our borders, law and order, fair trade deals, and not necessarily believe in choir long politicians are the underdog. He is horrible at it because it is horrible communication skills but he’s the only one speaking for those people.
With the exception of the second amendment and whatever "choir long politicians" are, I can look at the below three things:


The first is "I don't want to compete with anyone else here for my job because I'm privileged." The last is "I don't want to compete with anyone else overseas for my job because I'm privileged." The middle is "I'm privileged so I want to keep the people in society who are below me in their place."


And I know the simple retort is "I'm not opposed to legal immigration, only illegal immigration", but if you really believe that you'd be willing to increase immigration limits or create a serious guest worker program (as a Republican, GWB, suggested) to allow people who just want to come here and work a legal path to do so that is different than immigration.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 07:53:43 PM
I'm white.  Again, the boogeyman you've been sold isn't me, friend.

And your every post isolates you further and further from the rest of us.
Racist again.  You can’t stop brining color into it can you.  😂😂😂
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 07:54:30 PM
Do you hate that I'm not the caricature you've been spoon-fed? 


https://www.themix.net/2020/08/air-marshal-denied-boarding-on-frontier-flight-because-of-american-flag-mask/
https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/air-force-veteran-quits-job-nc-food-lion-over-american-flag-controversy/BBAKRT4M3ZEXDHZ3VE3OLBFAEQ/

I found 2 examples in 20 seconds 

how many do you want- Since we all know you live in the narrative world and completely ignore facts.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 07:58:28 PM
Facts.       Then bewilderment. Lol
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 08:01:58 PM
With the exception of the second amendment and whatever "choir long politicians" are, I can look at the below three things:

  • Controlling our borders.
  • Law and order.
  • Fair trade deals.

The first is "I don't want to compete with anyone else here for my job because I'm privileged." The last is "I don't want to compete with anyone else overseas for my job because I'm privileged." The middle is "I'm privileged so I want to keep the people in society who are below me in their place."


And I know the simple retort is "I'm not opposed to legal immigration, only illegal immigration", but if you really believe that you'd be willing to increase immigration limits or create a serious guest worker program (as a Republican, GWB, suggested) to allow people who just want to come here and work a legal path to do so that is different than immigration.
Here you go again. Why do you liberals, and don’t say that you’re not because what you just stated is as liberal as anything I’ve ever seen, insist on knowing what you think other people are thinking. What kind of an argument is that? Illegal immigration for me is 100% related to the safety of people that are in this country. All I would like to see is much more vetting and understanding of who’s coming in. Could not care less as it leads to my job I just don’t want my daughters blown up in a stadium someday because we didn’t vet the terrorist even a little bit when they came into the country.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2020, 08:07:15 PM
No, I was reading, actually.

Your airline story isn't an employee.  As far as I know, when I fly on an airplane, I'm not working for them.


And your grocery store guy was in violation of corporate policy, and so would an employee wearing a BLM mask.  


Your gotcha failed.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2020, 08:10:21 PM
Here you go again. Why do you liberals, and don’t say that you’re not because what you just stated is as liberal as anything I’ve ever seen, insist on knowing what you think other people are thinking. What kind of an argument is that? Illegal immigration for me is 100% related to the safety of people that are in this country. All I would like to see is much more vetting and understanding of who’s coming in. Could not care less as it leads to my job I just don’t want my daughters blown up in a stadium someday because we didn’t vet the terrorist even a little bit when they came into the country.
Ok... So you support wider legal immigration limits and/or a guest worker program to appropriately vet people who are just coming into this country to work?

I mean, history has shown that illegal immigrants have much lower crime rates than, say, Trump campaign staffers.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 08:20:51 PM
No, I was reading, actually.

Your airline story isn't an employee.  As far as I know, when I fly on an airplane, I'm not working for them.


And your grocery store guy was in violation of corporate policy, and so would an employee wearing a BLM mask. 


Your gotcha failed. 
No.  An American flag should be universally ok for a person to wear in America, without exception.  It is not. 

you- again- have failed. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 04, 2020, 08:24:08 PM
https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/air-force-veteran-quits-job-nc-food-lion-over-american-flag-controversy/BBAKRT4M3ZEXDHZ3VE3OLBFAEQ/

I found 2 examples in 20 seconds

how many do you want- Since we all know you live in the narrative world and completely ignore facts.


And despite Food Lion’s policy, the company does provide special parking for veterans outside – marked with American flags.

In a statement, Food Lion said it has "great respect for the American flag," but also has blanket policies banning writing, insignia and symbols "to ensure a consistent and professional representation of our associates inside of our stores."

https://www.foxnews.com/us/air-force-vet-quits-food-lion-american-flag-face-mask (https://www.foxnews.com/us/air-force-vet-quits-food-lion-american-flag-face-mask)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 08:24:17 PM
Ok... So you support wider legal immigration limits and/or a guest worker program to appropriately vet people who are just coming into this country to work?

I mean, history has shown that illegal immigrants have much lower crime rates than, say, Trump campaign staffers.
You are now falling into the- Yeah- cool story bro category.  

I wonder if any of His campaign staffers contributed bail money to arrested rioters?  Guessing no.  But now you can lecture me on why that’s ok and remind me what I am really thinking. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 08:25:45 PM
And despite Food Lion’s policy, the company does provide special parking for veterans outside – marked with American flags.

In a statement, Food Lion said it has "great respect for the American flag," but also has blanket policies banning writing, insignia and symbols "to ensure a consistent and professional representation of our associates inside of our stores."

https://www.foxnews.com/us/air-force-vet-quits-food-lion-american-flag-face-mask (https://www.foxnews.com/us/air-force-vet-quits-food-lion-american-flag-face-mask)
Kind of like Goodyear tire?  Or Starbucks with BLM versus Blue lives matter?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2020, 08:32:04 PM
You are now falling into the- Yeah- cool story bro category. 

I wonder if any of His campaign staffers contributed bail money to arrested rioters?  Guessing no.  But now you can lecture me on why that’s ok and remind me what I am really thinking.
Umm, various of Trump's campaign staff has either been convicted of felonies, confessed / plea bargained to felonies, or is currently being investigated for felonies.

And you're complaining that Biden's campaign staffers have contributed to bail money for people who will still have to face their music but are just trying to get out of lockup while they work on that? 

Again, I don't understand the constant deflection to "look at actual crimes Trump's people committed" and then you respond with "well, look at what Democrats do, even if it's not directly comparable and far less egregious" as if it's a reflex? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 08:43:26 PM
Umm, various of Trump's campaign staff has either been convicted of felonies, confessed / plea bargained to felonies, or is currently being investigated for felonies.

And you're complaining that Biden's campaign staffers have contributed to bail money for people who will still have to face their music but are just trying to get out of lockup while they work on that?

Again, I don't understand the constant deflection to "look at actual crimes Trump's people committed" and then you respond with "well, look at what Democrats do, even if it's not directly comparable and far less egregious" as if it's a reflex?
If we are talking about choices we have, and who offers what, then neither side wins for me. But if one of the issues is -who is aligned with violence and chaos- and that is one of the main issues, and trying to sell the ridiculous narrative that it is Republicans-then  Biden and Harris openly supporting those caught in the destruction is if way more importance than the doofus who will be gone soon.

but here again, you were responding to immigration, by telling me what I think, and then you randomly threw the Trump crap in there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 08:46:22 PM
It’s hilarious at this point. Any topic about anything has to include the random Trump bashing, but I am deflecting. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2020, 08:59:47 PM
 

but here again, you were responding to immigration, by telling me what I think, and then you randomly threw the Trump crap in there.

I was trying to rehash a meme. There are numerous studies saying illegal immigrants commit fewer crimes than native born citizens. I was trying to play of that meme that pointed out the criminality in Trump's organization because he portraits immigrants as criminals. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 04, 2020, 09:06:25 PM
https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/air-force-veteran-quits-job-nc-food-lion-over-american-flag-controversy/BBAKRT4M3ZEXDHZ3VE3OLBFAEQ/

I found 2 examples in 20 seconds

how many do you want- Since we all know you live in the narrative world and completely ignore facts.


Is there evidence those companies allow BLM masks?

(Before I get yelled at, I generally think it's stupid that either company prohibits such a thing. And if Food Lion is a bastion of the liberal scourge, it's an interesting choice given the set of locales it occupies)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 04, 2020, 09:30:45 PM
theres lots of folks who didnt serv CW they should not be condemned for that

I guess we just are going to believe what we believe CW

I dont think this kind of stuff hurts him one bit but the dems keep throwing it out there and hoping
I think I responded to this earlier but I might have shut the computer down to go mow the yard before it got sent.
So . . . It's not particularly that Trump didn't serve.  It's that he didn't serve and laughed about how he got out of serving with his "bonespurs," and stated that he should have  gotten a medal for not catching V.D. And how he has publicly disparaged "losers" who got killed or captured, like John McCain, who underwent 5-1/2 years of torture and beatings in North Vietnamese prisons.
So his reported comments disparaging the dead of previous wars is perfectly consistent with what we already know of him.  Not from fake news (i.e., any news that makes Trump look bad), but from things that are part of the public record.
What would be inconsistent with his known behavior would be for him to express genuine respect, regret, and mourning for our war dead.
As an aside, I have come to believe that a man who didn't serve during his generation's war should not be the POTUS.  We've had three Vietnam-era presidents, and two of them ("I loathed the military" Clinton and "bonespurs" Trump) took positive steps to avoid it and the other (W) took positive steps to serve in the cushy Air National Guard.
Not a great record.  Not exactly ancient Athens, where all male citizens--even philosophers like Socrates--served as hoplites in the line of battle.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 04, 2020, 09:38:06 PM
I guess that where most adults are at yet at least half can't see the appalling bomblasts from the other side of the political isle
The badness of the other side does not make Donald Trump OK.
If people want to argue that both sides are bad but Trump is a smidgeon less bad than Biden, all things considered, fine.  I disagree, but fine.
But that's not what we are seeing here.
We are seeing comments more along this line: "How dare you say these things about Trump, you Marxist!  Don't you know about Pelosi and Cuomo?"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 04, 2020, 09:40:47 PM
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a33824629/tested-1962-chevy-corvette-vs-1982-chevy-corvette/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&fbclid=IwAR25KwjJv6Px7UiP_DObobJiHzs9hCT3Cvxlgwz799VQbOYo5zl7N6rn3NY (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a33824629/tested-1962-chevy-corvette-vs-1982-chevy-corvette/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&fbclid=IwAR25KwjJv6Px7UiP_DObobJiHzs9hCT3Cvxlgwz799VQbOYo5zl7N6rn3NY)

Kinda fun comparison, calling 0.82 skid pad commendable.  Heh.
The first car I remember with a reported 0.8g skid-pad score was the 1973 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 04, 2020, 09:47:51 PM
Maybe CWS doesn't have a "tribe".  I know I don't.  I have a loosely held group of "notions" some of which are con and some of which would be viewed as lib, and I don't know if any of them are really correct.
The tribe left me in 2016 and has gotten further and further away from what I at least thought it was for my entire adult life.  Now it stands for nothing more than loyalty to one man, just like a tribe in some 3rd-world dictatorship.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 04, 2020, 09:52:02 PM
Kind of like Goodyear tire?  Or Starbucks with BLM versus Blue lives matter?
I'm not aware of either company saying you can't wear an American flag. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 04, 2020, 10:00:03 PM
True story.

I'm a Tarantino movie fan. I find fault with plenty in his movies, but I enjoy most of them. Would be happy to discuss my reviews of his movies another time. Regardless, my current favorite is Inglorious Basterds. One reason is that it calls back to a time when we knew Nazis were the bad guys.

My son is a WWII buff, stemming originally from his love of battleships because WWII was the apex of the battleship. However, his love of WWII sucked him into tanks as well, particularly German and Russian tanks. At 13 year old, I would bet he could outdo all but the best read historians among this group on the details of Operation Barbarossa. I bet CWS and CD could give him a run for his money, but I'd take odds against anyone else, including me.

So, a couple of years ago we started playing World of Tanks on the X Box. It appeals to our interest in tanks. And it's fun. It's a guilty pleasure--judge me if you must.

Anyway, the highest, best use of that game is in multi-player, where you play in two teams of 15 players. Your team is linked, and you can talk to the other members of your team. Generally, as with the anonymity of the internet, the "group chat" is a toxic mix of men screaming expletives at their teammates, blaming them for all manner of ills in the game. So we turn off the group chat feature. But you can also join a "platoon" that gets assigned to teams together. In that platoon, you can use the chat function to limit who you are talking to, so you're not involved in the toxicity of the anonymous group chat.

Over time you run into people that seem like minded enough that you join platoons with them. So the other night, I'm playing with a group of folks. One was from Pennsylvania, one Texas, and one somewhere I didn't catch. Texas guy says, so my grandfather as an SS officer in WWII, and served in Hitler's protection team. He starts to brag about it. Pennsylvania guy says, "How are we supposed to feel about the SS, now?" and these three guys laugh about it, but not the, "of course that's horrible" kind of laugh.

Now, there's some ambiguity here. Maybe Pennsylvania was trying to figure out how to address Texas's family's military history. I get that military service to one's country is an honorable pursuit, and it doesn't mean support for that country's terrible causes. Heck, I served in a war effort (to be clear, not combat service) that I fundamentally disagreed with. I get that; it wasn't my choice--I signed up to do what We the People told me to do, and I did it. I understand that. And I understand the pride in a family's historical military service. But the conversation I was listening too sure didn't sound like it was acknowledging and working around that ambiguity.

How did we get to a place where serving in the SS wasn't automatically a negative?
Once upon a time, nobody in America would have bragged about a family connection to Hitler's SS bodyguard.
Now we've got people claiming to be patriots waving Nazi flags.
I don't know how that compares to Americans waving North Vietnamese flags during the Vietnam War.  They may have been claiming they were patriots too, as they rooted for the commies to win and their own country to lose.  Which is worse?
Also, I think there's a distinction to be made between the SS--even the Waffen SS--and the German Army.  The German Army committed plenty of atrocities too.  But its reason for existence was not to commit atrocities.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on September 04, 2020, 10:05:45 PM
If college football fans can't unite behind Lou holtz and not deserving any sort of medal, what do we have left?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2020, 10:10:25 PM
Is there evidence those companies allow BLM masks?

Of course not.  He invented a thing that was false and is hoping we move on.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 04, 2020, 10:25:29 PM
That is bad, dumb and silly on his part. I hope he does not double down and make it a thing, but instead admits a mistake with grace.
Yep.
It's no worse than the hundreds of falsehoods Trump has issued since 2016--like Ted Cruz' father being part of a conspiracy to kill JFK and like his inauguration crowd being bigger than Obamas, both repeated ad nauseam--but it's stupid.  And Biden will make more mistakes like that.  It's what he does.
He was not the sharpest knife in the drawer on his best day, and his best day is not even visible in his rear-view mirror.
But IMO he's less of a threat to the Republic than is Donald J. Trump.
Most politicians have a weakness for saying things that they're pretty sure that their audience wants to hear.  Biden has it worse than most, I think.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 10:28:41 PM
Of course not.  He invented a thing that was false and is hoping we move on. 
Since you don’t know how to read or you do know how to read but are blind because of your hatred I will say it again:

It took me 20 seconds to find two examples of people not allowed to wear a mask with an American flag on it. How many more do I have to find, which would not be hard before you get what I’m saying moron.

That should be all you need to hear to be outraged. If an American, in America cannot wear an American flag on their mask things are very fucked up. Well at least for most of us, since I know you just love that
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 04, 2020, 10:32:14 PM
He may have meant Garrett Morgan from here in Cleveland


https://www.livescience.com/57231-who-invented-the-traffic-light.html
However, the credit for the "first electric traffic signal" usually goes to James Hoge (https://www.google.com/patents/US1251666). A system based on his design was installed on Aug. 5, 1914, in Cleveland. Hoge received a patent for the system in 1918. (He had filed his application in 1913.) Hoge's traffic signal used the alternating illuminated words "stop" and "move" installed on a single post on each of the four corners of an intersection. The system was wired such that police and fire departments could adjust the rhythm of the lights in case of an emergency.
William Ghiglieri (https://www.google.com/patents/US1224632) of San Francisco patented the first automatic traffic signal that used red and green lights in 1917. Ghiglieri's design had the option of being either automatic or manual.

Then in 1920, William Potts (http://www.marktraffic.com/traffic-lights-invented-by-william-l-potts.php), a Detroit police officer, developed several automatic traffic light systems, including the first three-color signal, which added a yellow "caution" light.

In 1923, Garrett Morgan (https://www.google.com/patents/US1475024?) patented an electric automatic traffic signal. Morgan was the first African-American to own a car in Cleveland. He also invented the gas mask. Morgan's design used a T-shaped pole unit with three positions. Besides "Stop" and "Go," the system also first stopped traffic in all directions to give drivers time to stop or get through the intersection. Another benefit of Morgan's design was that it could be produced inexpensively, thus increasing the number of signals that could be installed. Morgan sold the rights to his traffic signal to General Electric for $40,000.
Early breathing devices[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gas_mask&action=edit&section=7)]
According to Popular Mechanics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Mechanics), "The common sponge was used in ancient Greece (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greece) as a gas mask..."[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_mask#cite_note-9) In 1785, Jean-François Pilâtre de Rozier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-François_Pilâtre_de_Rozier) invented a respirator (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respirator).
Primitive respirator examples were used by miners (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miner) and introduced by Alexander von Humboldt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_von_Humboldt) already in 1799, when he worked as a mining engineer in Prussia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussia).[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_mask#cite_note-10) The forerunner to the modern gas mask was invented in 1847 by Lewis P. Haslett (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_P._Haslett), a device that contained elements that allowed breathing through a nose and mouthpiece, inhalation of air through a bulb-shaped filter, and a vent to exhale air back into the atmosphere.[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_mask#cite_note-11) According to First Facts, it states that the "gas mask resembling the modern type was patented by Lewis Phectic Haslett of Louisville, Kentucky (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisville,_Kentucky) who received a patent on June 12, 1849." [12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_mask#cite_note-disu-12) U.S. patent #6,529 (http://www.google.com/patents/US6529?printsec=abstract&dq=6,529&ei=W1gUT5yjHYittgeyodj4AQ#v=onepage&q&f=false) issued to Haslett, described the first "Inhaler or Lung Protector" that filtered dust (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust) from the air (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air).[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_mask#cite_note-13)
Early versions were constructed by the Scottish chemist John Stenhouse in 1854[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_mask#cite_note-Benson2010-14) and the physicist John Tyndall in the 1870s.[15] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_mask#cite_note-15) Another early design was the "Safety Hood and Smoke Protector" invented by Garrett Morgan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrett_Morgan) in 1912, and patented in 1914. It was a simple device consisting of a cotton hood with two hoses which hung down to the floor, allowing the wearer to breathe the safer air found there. In addition, moist sponges were inserted at the end of the hoses in order to better filter the air. This was later modified to include its own air supply, leading to World War I era gas masks.[16] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_mask#cite_note-16)[17] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_mask#cite_note-pbs.org/wgbh/theymadeamerica2-17)[18] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_mask#cite_note-encyclopedia.com/topic/Garrett_Morgan2-18)[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_mask#cite_note-biography.com/people/garrett-morgan2-19)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_mask#History_and_development (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_mask#History_and_development)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 10:32:45 PM
The badness of the other side does not make Donald Trump OK.
If people want to argue that both sides are bad but Trump is a smidgeon less bad than Biden, all things considered, fine.  I disagree, but fine.
But that's not what we are seeing here.
We are seeing comments more along this line: "How dare you say these things about Trump, you Marxist!  Don't you know about Pelosi and Cuomo?"
Maybe that’s what you are seeing. What I am seeing is more like:

How dare you blame anything on a democrat- their disgusting behavior is Trumps fault.
So basically certain people here carrying CNNs  and MSNBC propaganda

well guess what- that may work on Facebook or Twitter but it’s not going to stand here. We are going to discuss the many disgusting things going on in this country that can directly be tied to the left. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 10:42:10 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/media/biden-press-conference-shamefully-embarrassing-questions-reporters

Hahaha.  Watch the video of. “ journalist asking Biden a “ question “
I suppose you’re impressed that he finally tried to answer two or three questions for the first time.  The left should be embarrassed


The analogy would be a reporter asking this question to POTUS:

“ Hello Mr. President. Yesterday Joe Biden flipped his position, a little bit on violence, and a lot on fracking. Also Biden became incoherent after saying that a black man invented the lightbulb. When you hear this Mr. President does it scare you that Joe’s dementia is obviously getting worse and you’re afraid for the country that he can’t give a straight answer without flip-flopping or losing his train of thought? Also, isn’t it obvious that Democrats have clearly been supporting violence? And lastly, why does Antifa, the group known for violence and chaos, have their website  directly linked to Joe’s Website?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 04, 2020, 10:45:39 PM
In the early part of the last century I think Ringling Brothers would be more than happy to have me.Riding the rails with the circus - hellz Ya.Long as they lock up the Big Cats and leave my Oktoberfests alone
Charlton Heston made a pretty good movie about a circus that traveled by rail.  The Greatest Show on Earth.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 04, 2020, 10:52:06 PM
The DNC and RNC are co-ruling monarchies.  A duarchy or whatever.  The way they press this button for a candidate and don't pull that leverl for a candidate is the most influential entity in the voter-representative process.
The RNC is powerless and the DNC only slightly less so.  They are empty shells, used by demagogues to label themselves in order to lend credence to their drive for the White House.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 04, 2020, 10:53:49 PM
See post below- Which I sent before you even posed this question but clearly answers the question.

We have already discussed this but to rehash, like you I was hopeful that his election, being an outsider and not a career politician, would have some positives to it. The liberals in the media began their attacks long before he took office. It’s a 24 seven attack cycle and has been every single day of his presidency. They cannot acknowledge A single positive thing that he has accomplished, which in my view there are quite a few. No political figure in modern history has had as much of the media against him working diligently to undermine him since before he took office and then this poor guy has. And while you guys will try to deny that I firmly believe you’re being dishonest and you all know that. There really is no disputing it.

after I voted for Obama, and he and that entire party turned me off to such a high degree, this despicable treatment from the media has just made me sicker by the day. 
It’s not that you criticize him correctly, which you do but seriously how can I take anything you guys say seriously when you’re trying to blame him for things that clearly could or should be blamed on the left?

To Trump, The media are attack dogs and have been since day one.  To Biden, they are lapdogs. They won’t ask him any questions and when they do their huge fat softballs. 

it is clear to me and many many many others that the liberal playbook is to do bad things and then try to paint a picture that he is the cause of those things. Over and over and over.


Was it you that said you’re surprised he has so much support?  Stop and take a look at what the “other side “is offering?  It’s all one great big huge turn off. 

if Trump wasn’t such a dick, or if he was just half as much of a dick as he is, I would definitely be voting for him just to stop the left agenda which I just hate.  But I have to look in the mirror and I know I can’t do that if I vote for him and I definitely can’t do that if I vote for the “other side“
it will be interesting to me when he’s out of office next year how much of things that might not go well or go wrong the Democrats will still be trying to blame on him. I’m going to guess it will go on for years.
Both sides do this.  Trump is still blaming Obama for everything that has gone wrong on his watch.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 04, 2020, 11:07:11 PM
People who believe in the Second Amendment, controlling our borders, law and order, fair trade deals, and not necessarily believe in choir long politicians are the underdog. He is horrible at it because it is horrible communication skills but he’s the only one speaking for those people.
When the other side "speaks for those people" in an obvious attempt to win their votes, we call it "pandering."
I don't see that Trump is doing anything different than that.
To the extent that he's been political, he was a lifelong centrist Democrat, perhaps because it would not have helped him to be a Republican in New York.  He was friends with the Clintons.
When it was obvious that he had no career as a Democrat on the national stage, he switched and used the GOP instead.
He doesn't care about those little people whose voice has been ignored any more than any demagogue cares about the people to whom he appeals.  Those people are just means to an end, like people in the military are and Big Ten football fans are.  He doesn't care about them.  He cares about himself.
If he were on the other "side," Republicans would be calling him out every day, just as they did with Obama, who was not as obvious a demagogue as Trump is.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 04, 2020, 11:09:26 PM
When the other side "speaks for those people" in an obvious attempt to win their votes, we call it "pandering."
I don't see that Trump is doing anything different than that.
To the extent that he's been political, he was a lifelong centrist Democrat, perhaps because it would not have helped him to be a Republican in New York.  He was friends with the Clintons.
When it was obvious that he had no career as a Democrat on the national stage, he switched and used the GOP instead.
He doesn't care about those little people whose voice has been ignored any more than any demagogue cares about the people to whom he appeals.  Those people are just means to an end, like people in the military are and Big Ten football fans are.  He doesn't care about them.  He cares about himself.
If he were on the other "side," Republicans would be calling him out every day, just as they did with Obama, who was not as obvious a demagogue as Trump is.
Obviously- many agree with you. And many don’t.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 04, 2020, 11:23:48 PM
Maybe that’s what you are seeing. What I am seeing is more like:

How dare you blame anything on a democrat- their disgusting behavior is Trumps fault.
So basically certain people here carrying CNNs  and MSNBC propaganda

well guess what- that may work on Facebook or Twitter but it’s not going to stand here. We are going to discuss the many disgusting things going on in this country that can directly be tied to the left.
What you are describing is not me.  I'll gladly criticize Democrats for all that they have done wrong over many decades.  But they are not the subject.  The only time they are brought up is as a rebuttal of someone criticizing Trump.
You and the other anti-anti-Trumpers are describing every criticism of Trump as coming from lunatic America-haters.  That is not correct.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 05, 2020, 03:33:34 PM
The RNC is powerless and the DNC only slightly less so.  They are empty shells, used by demagogues to label themselves in order to lend credence to their drive for the White House.
Tell that to the 15 other, BETTER Republican candidates from 2016.  Tell that to Bernie (twice bitten) Sanders.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 05, 2020, 03:35:28 PM
Tell that to the 15 other, BETTER Republican candidates from 2016.  Tell that to Bernie (twice bitten) Sanders.
I love to see dems cry in the beer

have another on me
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 05, 2020, 03:37:42 PM
I love to see dems cry in the beer

have another on me
You don't even care what this is about, do you?  lol and you expect respect.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 05, 2020, 03:38:17 PM
What you are describing is not me. 
He has zero interest in reality.  He paints any dissenting voice as a caricature of something he saw on Fox News.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 05, 2020, 03:44:51 PM
He has zero interest in reality.  He paints any dissenting voice as a caricature of something he saw on Fox News. 
now there ya go again gereralizing 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 05, 2020, 03:50:35 PM
Tell that to the 15 other, BETTER Republican candidates from 2016.  Tell that to Bernie (twice bitten) Sanders.
Trump was the people's primary voters' choice, not the RNC's.  The RNC just caved in and let him take the nomination by being the bigger, badder demagogue.
You've got a better case for Bernie, but even without the Super-Delegates (appointed by the DNC), Hillary had the necessary delegates sewed up before the DNC convention even began.  The fact that a non-Democrat like Bernie got as close as he did in 2016 supports my point better than yours, I think.  He didn't even get close this year, so he wasn't "bitten," and it wasn't because of anything the DNC did.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 05, 2020, 03:56:16 PM
Trump was the people's primary voters' choice, not the RNC's.  The RNC just caved in and let him take the nomination by being the bigger, badder demagogue.
You've got a better case for Bernie, but even without the Super-Delegates (appointed by the DNC), Hillary had the necessary delegates sewed up before the DNC convention even began.  The fact that a non-Democrat like Bernie got as close as he did in 2016 supports my point better than yours, I think.  He didn't even get close this year, so he wasn't "bitten," and it wasn't because of anything the DNC did.
The superdelegates thing, I think, has been fixed.  I guess then they were counted beforehand or early on and now they're not?  I'm only partial on that, and you may know better than I.

But as you acknowledge the RNC caved, the DNC didn't.  And I don't think there's any way they would have, either.  I'm still stunned, to this day, that the RNC just let decent, quality candidates fall by the wayside.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 05, 2020, 03:58:05 PM
Trump was the people's primary voters' choice, not the RNC's.  The RNC just caved in and let him take the nomination by being the bigger, badder demagogue.
You've got a better case for Bernie, but even without the Super-Delegates (appointed by the DNC), Hillary had the necessary delegates sewed up before the DNC convention even began.  The fact that a non-Democrat like Bernie got as close as he did in 2016 supports my point better than yours, I think.  He didn't even get close this year, so he wasn't "bitten," and it wasn't because of anything the DNC did.
I think the reason Bernie didnt do better is that a lot of the other candidates stole his thunder and moved far more left then even he was

in other words he didnt stand out
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 05, 2020, 04:00:49 PM
The superdelegates thing, I think, has been fixed.  I guess then they were counted beforehand or early on and now they're not?  I'm only partial on that, and you may know better than I.

But as you acknowledge the RNC caved, the DNC didn't.  And I don't think there's any way they would have, either.  I'm still stunned, to this day, that the RNC just let decent, quality candidates fall by the wayside. 

how is it that the RNC caved when you are talking about winning or losing primaries

what choice did they have he won the needed primaries

what am I missing
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 05, 2020, 04:12:38 PM
The superdelegates thing, I think, has been fixed.  I guess then they were counted beforehand or early on and now they're not?  I'm only partial on that, and you may know better than I.

But as you acknowledge the RNC caved, the DNC didn't.  And I don't think there's any way they would have, either.  I'm still stunned, to this day, that the RNC just let decent, quality candidates fall by the wayside.
What do you see that the RNC did to "just let decent, quality candidates fall by the wayside"?  I didn't see it do anything.  The out-of-character action would have been to do something to stop Trump.  I can't remember when the honchos at the RNC had any influence on the result of the presidential nomination.  And who are those honchos anyway?  Not a Republican in a hundred could even name the head of the RNC, and I imagine the same is true of the DNC.
The congressional campaign committees, plus the candidates themselves, raise most of the money to fund congressional races, and the candidates themselves along with all the "un-affiliated" PACs raise most of the money for the presidential campaigns.  The national committees just don't have that much influence, except for the appointment of super-delegates.
I don't know that the DNC has made any changes to the super-delegate system.  The RNC has super-delegates too, but far fewer of them.  I used to yuk it up that the Democratic Party was therefore less democratic.  Now I think that they do it better, only not enough better.  There should be more, not fewer, super-delegates, IMO.
Primary voters seldom represent the mainstream of either party.  They consist mostly of the committed, even fanatical, supporters of their chosen candidate.  Bernie had an army of them, especially in 2016.  He got a far bigger share of the delegates than he would have gotten had there just been a poll--whether national or state-by-state--of all registered Democrats.
Again, I recommend this from The Atlantic: "Too Much Democracy is Bad for Democracy (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/12/too-much-democracy-is-bad-for-democracy/600766/)."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 05, 2020, 04:35:45 PM
Multiple boats in distress during 'boat parade' in support of Pres. Trump (https://abc7.com/distress-calls-report-sinking-boats-at-texas-trump-boat-parade/6410444/)

WTF???


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 05, 2020, 04:48:58 PM
Multiple boats in distress during 'boat parade' in support of Pres. Trump (https://abc7.com/distress-calls-report-sinking-boats-at-texas-trump-boat-parade/6410444/)

WTF???



so far 4 boats sink no injuries and no reason given for the boats sinking

silly Texans probably drunk and forgot to put in the drain plug

move along folks nothing to see here
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 05, 2020, 06:26:50 PM
Yeah, that many folks forgetting to put in the plug would be... unusual.  Something weird going on here.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 05, 2020, 06:28:56 PM
In unrelated news, quite glad I didn't go to the lake today.  I was actually considering hitting Lake Travis, but decided to continue to adhere to my decades-old rule of avoiding the lake on holiday weekends.  Too many rookies and too much booze.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 05, 2020, 07:09:04 PM
In unrelated news, quite glad I didn't go to the lake today.  I was actually considering hitting Lake Travis, but decided to continue to adhere to my decades-old rule of avoiding the lake on holiday weekends.  Too many rookies and too much booze.
Need too many veterans and too much booze.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on September 05, 2020, 07:20:34 PM
My sister-in-law's dad, is part of a racehorse ownership group, because none of them can be a full owner themselves.  I tried to put in a show of good faith bet, but DraftKings doesn't allow betting on the Derby. His horse just won
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 05, 2020, 07:33:05 PM
My sister-in-law's dad, is part of a racehorse ownership group, because none of them can be a full owner themselves.  I tried to put in a show of good faith bet, but DraftKings doesn't allow betting on the Derby. His horse just won
congratulations! 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 05, 2020, 07:33:39 PM
You don't even care what this is about, do you?  lol and you expect respect.
Hey look, it’s snowflake sally talking about respect lol. 

go take more drugs Dufus. It will support your alternate reality anyway.

we love longhorn.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 05, 2020, 07:35:55 PM
Yeah, that many folks forgetting to put in the plug would be... unusual.  Something weird going on here.


Not sure bout that Im sure theres a few aggie boaters out there
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 05, 2020, 07:41:15 PM
My sister-in-law's dad, is part of a racehorse ownership group, because none of them can be a full owner themselves.  I tried to put in a show of good faith bet, but DraftKings doesn't allow betting on the Derby. His horse just won
Sweet!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 05, 2020, 07:53:45 PM
Hey look, it’s snowflake sally talking about respect lol.

go take more drugs Dufus. It will support your alternate reality anyway.

we love longhorn. 
now ya got me blushing HB
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 05, 2020, 08:58:09 PM
A Military Times poll of active-duty troops shows Biden leading Trump 41.3% to 37.4%.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/08/31/as-trumps-popularity-slips-in-latest-military-times-poll-more-troops-say-theyll-vote-for-biden/?fbclid=IwAR0XKqcwWevmi0YZENlNZcs3zEHngSZNAz1eqWmhuiayjYHT5ZaTI6qA8n0 (https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/08/31/as-trumps-popularity-slips-in-latest-military-times-poll-more-troops-say-theyll-vote-for-biden/?fbclid=IwAR0XKqcwWevmi0YZENlNZcs3zEHngSZNAz1eqWmhuiayjYHT5ZaTI6qA8n0)

Qualifier: The poll's participants were taken from Military Times subscriber listings and average older and more senior-ranking than the average member of the armed forces.  However, the poll using the same methodology in October 2016 showed Trump leading Hillary Clinton 40.5% to 20.6% (with 34.3% favoring an independent), which was very close to the actual vote.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 05, 2020, 09:10:55 PM
A Military Times poll of active-duty troops shows Biden leading Trump 41.3% to 37.4%.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/08/31/as-trumps-popularity-slips-in-latest-military-times-poll-more-troops-say-theyll-vote-for-biden/?fbclid=IwAR0XKqcwWevmi0YZENlNZcs3zEHngSZNAz1eqWmhuiayjYHT5ZaTI6qA8n0 (https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/08/31/as-trumps-popularity-slips-in-latest-military-times-poll-more-troops-say-theyll-vote-for-biden/?fbclid=IwAR0XKqcwWevmi0YZENlNZcs3zEHngSZNAz1eqWmhuiayjYHT5ZaTI6qA8n0)

Qualifier: The poll's participants were taken from Military Times subscriber listings and average older and more senior-ranking than the average member of the armed forces.  However, the poll using the same methodology in October 2016 showed Trump leading Hillary Clinton 40.5% to 20.6% (with 34.3% favoring an independent), which was very close to the actual vote.
game over man

were dooooooooooomed
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 05, 2020, 09:38:30 PM
A Military Times poll of active-duty troops shows Biden leading Trump 41.3% to 37.4%.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/08/31/as-trumps-popularity-slips-in-latest-military-times-poll-more-troops-say-theyll-vote-for-biden/?fbclid=IwAR0XKqcwWevmi0YZENlNZcs3zEHngSZNAz1eqWmhuiayjYHT5ZaTI6qA8n0 (https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/08/31/as-trumps-popularity-slips-in-latest-military-times-poll-more-troops-say-theyll-vote-for-biden/?fbclid=IwAR0XKqcwWevmi0YZENlNZcs3zEHngSZNAz1eqWmhuiayjYHT5ZaTI6qA8n0)

Qualifier: The poll's participants were taken from Military Times subscriber listings and average older and more senior-ranking than the average member of the armed forces.  However, the poll using the same methodology in October 2016 showed Trump leading Hillary Clinton 40.5% to 20.6% (with 34.3% favoring an independent), which was very close to the actual vote.
seriously CW theres too many unknowns about this survey to be able to believe it

how many surveyed were black

how many surveyed were women

how many voted for Trump or Clinton last election

also trying to compare this survey to a previous survey has the same questions on the previous survey

Im not saying the survey is not accurate only that we dont know
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 05, 2020, 10:45:17 PM
seriously CW theres too many unknowns about this survey to be able to believe it

how many surveyed were black

how many surveyed were women

how many voted for Trump or Clinton last election

also trying to compare this survey to a previous survey has the same questions on the previous survey

Im not saying the survey is not accurate only that we dont know
Did you read the story, 320?  It acknowledged that as a "scientific" survey it has shortcomings.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 05, 2020, 11:07:54 PM
Did you read the story, 320?  It acknowledged that as a "scientific" survey it has shortcomings.
I read it and was pointing that out just in case someone else missed that aspect

so there thats my story and Im sticking to it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 06, 2020, 08:10:29 AM
Yeah, that many folks forgetting to put in the plug would be... unusual.  Something weird going on here.
Ya but the they would have sunk at the dock had some nefarious knobs pulled them.I suspect they pulled them to remove extra/excess bilge whilst moving.And in all the hubbub forget to put them back.Otherwise it's irate Longhorns in tight spaces smacking into each other
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 06, 2020, 09:46:25 AM
You'd have to have an incredibly strong bilge pump on a runabout or wakeboat, to keep you afloat at anything less than flat-out running.  The moment you slow down or stop, you're taking on far more water than your pump can remove.

Reports are that the conditions on the lake were extremely choppy, and speculation is that these  boats just took too many waves over the bow.  Also, the parade generated a ton of traffic, and when waves are high it's important to be able to maneuver your boat to avoid the worst of them.  In heavy traffic, it's more difficult to do so.

Anyway, just a really weird string of events to result in something like this.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 06, 2020, 09:50:46 AM
Maybe there was an unusual number of "wannabes" out there renting boats and not understanding how to manage in heavy traffic?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 06, 2020, 11:12:32 AM
I once tried to launch a dinghy without the drain plug.  That was brilliant....not embarrassing at all.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 06, 2020, 11:36:55 AM
I once tried to launch a dinghy without the drain plug.  That was brilliant....not embarrassing at all.
thats happened to a lot of folks

there is generally beer involved
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 06, 2020, 12:19:17 PM
My sister-in-law's dad, is part of a racehorse ownership group, because none of them can be a full owner themselves.  I tried to put in a show of good faith bet, but DraftKings doesn't allow betting on the Derby. His horse just won


Your brother's wife's dad? Wow. 

I have only met my brother's wife's family once; at my brother's wedding, back in the 90s. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 06, 2020, 12:22:09 PM
You'd have to have an incredibly strong bilge pump on a runabout or wakeboat, to keep you afloat at anything less than flat-out running.  The moment you slow down or stop, you're taking on far more water than your pump can remove.
Friend use to have a 28 ft Amberjack,many times we'd get into after a rain on Lake Erie and get it running out to the fishing spots and on the way pulled the plug and water would drain out fine and plug before stopping.Always did this in Canada with the smaller boats after raining all nite,pull while cruising and replace before stopping :017: keep austin weird ;D
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 06, 2020, 03:28:01 PM
There was a doofus on our dock last year who launch his boat and came in with the ass end in the water. His bilge was blocked up with leaves and he was going down fast.

Turned out, we should have let him sink. Glad he's no longer on the dock. Complete dick.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 06, 2020, 03:44:46 PM
My sister and her husband used to own a marina on Lake of the Ozarks. He was a little bit crazy... I guess still is. 

Because he had scuba gear, insurance companies would hire him to bring up sunk boats if they were in an area too shallow to be left in place. So he'd be the type who would scuba, in a crappy lake, into boats and fill them up with bags of air to get them to the surface. 

He had one where he had to pull up a boat. 41' cabin cruiser. Insurance company paid him to pull it up, and then offered to sell him the boat for $5K because it was salvage at that point. He knew it had two Ford 427 engines in it, so the cost of buying it--worst case--would probably be recouped just selling the engines. 

As it turns out, he got the boat up, realized that it was probably an owner who had pulled the plugs and sunk it for the insurance money, rehabbed it and sold it for over $30K IIRC. Before the sale I stayed on the boat one college Thanksgiving when I went to go visit--you wouldn't have had a clue it had been sunk and salvaged. 

He's one of those guys who doesn't have "a job", he just has his irons in so many fires that he's always making money somehow. I don't know if I could handle that life, but I guess that's just how he grew up. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 06, 2020, 04:02:06 PM
My sister and her husband used to own a marina on Lake of the Ozarks. He was a little bit crazy... I guess still is.

Because he had scuba gear, insurance companies would hire him to bring up sunk boats if they were in an area too shallow to be left in place. So he'd be the type who would scuba, in a crappy lake, into boats and fill them up with bags of air to get them to the surface.

He had one where he had to pull up a boat. 41' cabin cruiser. Insurance company paid him to pull it up, and then offered to sell him the boat for $5K because it was salvage at that point. He knew it had two Ford 427 engines in it, so the cost of buying it--worst case--would probably be recouped just selling the engines.

As it turns out, he got the boat up, realized that it was probably an owner who had pulled the plugs and sunk it for the insurance money, rehabbed it and sold it for over $30K IIRC. Before the sale I stayed on the boat one college Thanksgiving when I went to go visit--you wouldn't have had a clue it had been sunk and salvaged.

He's one of those guys who doesn't have "a job", he just has his irons in so many fires that he's always making money somehow. I don't know if I could handle that life, but I guess that's just how he grew up.
I have a buddy like that. He’s always done ok for himself (or it seems he has) but he’s always dabbled in 5 or 6 different things at one time.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 06, 2020, 04:19:45 PM
It is not a good feeling when you are in a boat that is sinking.

About 15 years ago I was in Canada on a fly in fishing trip deep in the Northwoods.   I was alone in a 15 foot cedar strip boat with a 15 hp motor.

Saw a huge storm coming in and like a dumb ass, thought I could make it across the main large deep part of the lake and back to camp for dinner.

I didn’t even come close and the rain was so hard that boat filled up with water so fast I couldn’t even believe it. 

I had the wherewithal to pull the plug which saved me as I made it to a small island about the size of two school buses in the middle of the lake and wrote out the storm. 

Finding my way back in the fog and dark was no fun either but I did. Spaghetti never tasted so good. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 06, 2020, 04:36:02 PM
It is not a good feeling when you are in a boat that is sinking.

About 15 years ago I was in Canada on a fly in fishing trip deep in the Northwoods.  I was alone in a 15 foot cedar strip boat with a 15 hp motor.

Saw a huge storm coming in and like a dumb ass, thought I could make it across the main large deep part of the lake and back to camp for dinner.

I didn’t even come close and the rain was so hard that boat filled up with water so fast I couldn’t even believe it.

I had the wherewithal to pull the plug which saved me as I made it to a small island about the size of two school buses in the middle of the lake and wrote out the storm.

Finding my way back in the fog and dark was no fun either but I did. Spaghetti never tasted so good.
One of the things my dad did was shrimping around the Galveston area

He had a 25 ft boat

I used to go out with him and be his deck hand

anyway one of the things he taught me was if you see a storm coming head in immediately 

I cant tell you how well his advice served us on many occasion

another thing he used to say is that the sea is not your friend and be very respectful of it

cause it will kick you in the butt every chance it gets
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 06, 2020, 05:34:52 PM
Scandal of the day

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1302646541950300165?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 06, 2020, 05:46:20 PM
I have a buddy like that. He’s always done ok for himself (or it seems he has) but he’s always dabbled in 5 or 6 different things at one time.
Same here,the dude highly intelligent was a jet mechanic in the USAF.Gets out,Aces a Fireman's test but theywouldn't take him because of a bad disc in his back.Turns around and aces a linemans test and was hired with the power company.In 5 yrs he's a crew chief,however came down off of a pole when one of his cleats broke.Buildt half of his house - by code naturally before getting hurtAny way got hurt couldn't do that but has been rebuilding cars and working on rental properties ever since and doing very well.One of the sharpest cats I know
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 06, 2020, 06:23:26 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ht1MVZF.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 06, 2020, 06:30:09 PM
Scandal of the day

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1302646541950300165?s=19
Eh.

That's the kind of thing that falls in the "it's probably true, there's probably TONS of that on both sides, and somehow he was stupid enough to get caught" kind of territory.

Full disclosure: I didn't read the article because it was behind the paywall. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 06, 2020, 06:33:16 PM
if hes guilty fry him
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 06, 2020, 06:33:31 PM
I started thinking about it and just in the last 20 years this guy has at different times (and many times overlapping):

-Managed 2 different restaurants
-Owned a restaurant
-Owned a little used car dealership 
-Owned a little paper where people  advertise things they want to buy and sell
-Worked in Management for a chain of local convenience stores
-Driven a truck for an oil and gas company
-Been a substitute teacher 
-Reffed HS basketball games 

Contrast that to someone like me who has worked for two companies in the last 20 years, and only one at a time.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 06, 2020, 07:19:16 PM
Scandal of the day

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1302646541950300165?s=19
Hush, Sam!  The swamp is being drained!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 06, 2020, 07:56:49 PM
Eh.

That's the kind of thing that falls in the "it's probably true, there's probably TONS of that on both sides, and somehow he was stupid enough to get caught" kind of territory.

Full disclosure: I didn't read the article because it was behind the paywall.
Who knows, but it is definitely criminal, for which he was rewarded by a post running the post office, where he doesn't know how much postage costs.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 06, 2020, 08:01:39 PM
if he broke the law he should be prosecuted 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 06, 2020, 08:26:01 PM
Hush, Sam!  The swamp is being drained!


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/peter-strzok-says-mistakes-in-fisa-applications-were-due-to-agents-being-overworked

long way to go....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 06, 2020, 08:29:53 PM
In other news to make you Libs happy


https://www.foxnews.com/us/ny-assistant-principal-f-the-police-facebook-live-protest


Have a celebratory drink on me!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 06, 2020, 08:36:12 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/09/06/american-airlines-policy-allowing-blm-pins-faces-backlash/

Glad I extracted my refund for my AA flights to Northern Michigan for my annual golf trip with the buds. 

Don’t choose to see Marxist “ flare” lol.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 06, 2020, 08:43:23 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/peter-strzok-says-mistakes-in-fisa-applications-were-due-to-agents-being-overworked

long way to go....
yep they were overworked worrying about that insurance policy
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 06, 2020, 08:46:55 PM
I should probably just stay out of it.  The board is nice and friendly until Sam gets bored and post random stuff that supports his narrative. 

If anyone responds outside that groupthink, people get a”woke”.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 06, 2020, 08:49:11 PM
woke this

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/02/biden-lead-poll-pennsylvania-407682
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 06, 2020, 08:49:46 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/peter-strzok-says-mistakes-in-fisa-applications-were-due-to-agents-being-overworked

long way to go....


That dude was wicked creepy, even by Caucasian Democrat standards. 



(https://media1.tenor.com/images/74382fb8b35db4c31b03fa6aebe7b846/tenor.gif?itemid=12215345)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 06, 2020, 09:11:08 PM
Grab the Garlic,Cross and a silver bullet.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 06, 2020, 09:24:12 PM


I bet that Lisa Page got that look on a number of occasions. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 06, 2020, 09:25:10 PM

That dude was wicked creepy, even by Caucasian Democrat standards.



(https://media1.tenor.com/images/74382fb8b35db4c31b03fa6aebe7b846/tenor.gif?itemid=12215345)
Whatever one's outlook, it's just not nice to bring that GIF into other people's lives. 

Step 1 for decency: Never show me that again. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 06, 2020, 09:27:45 PM

Oh, it can get worse. A lot worse. 

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRZ26IsdkpxYslC4Sf8Xy9xaJ3nB4ZI5qDWCw&usqp=CAU)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 06, 2020, 09:28:51 PM
In other news to make you Libs happy


https://www.foxnews.com/us/ny-assistant-principal-f-the-police-facebook-live-protest


Have a celebratory drink on me!
Why would that make someone happy? Or sad? Thinking people would draw strong emotions from that is weird.

(If memory serves, I think the teacher would have a good deal of legal backing to not be relieved of duties. But sometimes places don't follow that. Also, how far we've fallen that "you libs" is part of the dialogue here)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 06, 2020, 09:29:38 PM
Oh, it can get worse. A lot worse.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRZ26IsdkpxYslC4Sf8Xy9xaJ3nB4ZI5qDWCw&usqp=CAU)
Boss, I've swiped through Tinder in the Bay Area. That's nothing. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 06, 2020, 09:35:21 PM
It's like Appalachian edition of Faces of Meth got knocked up by Sid Vicious. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 06, 2020, 09:41:41 PM
Sid Vicious' hair, lol.

Did you see when his lower leg broke in half when he landed on it?  One of THE worst sports injuries, ever.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 06, 2020, 09:45:15 PM
I should probably just stay out of it.  The board is nice and friendly until Sam gets bored and post random stuff that supports his narrative.

If anyone responds outside that groupthink, people get a”woke”. 
Frankly, when the acting head of the post office is accused of various crimes, saying that is just "random stuff" is silly. It can't be taken seriously.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 06, 2020, 09:54:54 PM
Frankly, when the acting head of the post office is accused of various crimes, saying that is just "random stuff" is silly. It can't be taken seriously.
I didnt pay much attention were there unnamed sources in todays MS article as well?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 06, 2020, 09:57:16 PM
Frankly, when the acting head of the post office is accused of various crimes, saying that is just "random stuff" is silly. It can't be taken seriously.
Oh, I couldn’t agree more. Hope he goes to jail if true.  

But when you post politics- which you did and often do, the door is opened for other opinions and other politics.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 06, 2020, 09:57:47 PM
Sid Vicious' hair, lol.

Did you see when his lower leg broke in half when he landed on it?  One of THE worst sports injuries, ever.


Heh, I was thinking of Sid Vicious, the bass player for the Sex Pistols. Forgot about the wrestler. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 06, 2020, 10:02:02 PM
Oh, I couldn’t agree more. Hope he goes to jail if true. 

But when you post politics- which you did and often do, the door is opened for other opinions and other politics. 


Well he has to do it. Otherwise you might never get exposed to the Leftist viewpoint, which is absolutely unavoidable and ever present everywhere you look.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 06, 2020, 10:04:21 PM

Well he has to do it. Otherwise you might never get exposed to the Leftist viewpoint, that is absolutely unavoidable and ever present everywhere you look.
Law and Order!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 06, 2020, 10:09:32 PM
The Offspring? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 06, 2020, 10:11:01 PM
The Offspring?
Weezer
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 06, 2020, 10:14:25 PM
Nah, that was the Sweater song. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on September 06, 2020, 10:18:26 PM
My Dad has us kids hold a draft today to divide up his firearms collection (12 weapons).  He very much wanted to give these away while he is still sharp and around.  In true CV fashion we did this online w a video call.  To add to the stereotype they live in WY not one mile from one of the best gun museums in the World. It was kind of comical with my parents laying out all these long guns with so many old memories.

I ended up w the 2nd pick.  My older brother is taking a cash value estimate for a 1/3 of the value, hes not into hunting or owning guns anymore.  Anyways, it was very meaningful to Dad.   My younger brother and I went through it in about 30 min.  Some pretty cool old stuff.  I selected a single shot Iver Johnson 28 gauge w my 1st pick.  It is somewhere between 1939-1954 based on when Dad got it and the markings it has.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 06, 2020, 11:28:43 PM
I find the age cutoff thing with guns interesting.  What's the year and why is it that year where you can/cannot own a gun?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 06, 2020, 11:43:19 PM
I find the age cutoff thing with guns interesting.  What's the year and why is it that year where you can/cannot own a gun?
there is no age cutoff 
he just wanted to be sure that his collection had a good home
my dad did something similar with some of his things
its just something old folks do sometimes
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 06, 2020, 11:49:00 PM
there is no age cutoff
he just wanted to be sure that his collection had a good home
my dad did something similar with some of his things
its just something old folks do sometimes
No, the age of the gun.  Isn't it illegal to sell guns of a certain age?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 06, 2020, 11:58:53 PM
I should probably just stay out of it.  The board is nice and friendly until Sam gets bored and post random stuff that supports his narrative.

If anyone responds outside that groupthink, people get a”woke”.
C'mon, HB.  It's certainly no worse than the random stuff that Trump supporters and those who reserve their greatest bile for anti-Trumpers post.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 07, 2020, 12:11:07 AM
No, the age of the gun.  Isn't it illegal to sell guns of a certain age?
No.

IIRC, there were cases where, in the rash of gun-control laws of the late '60s and '70s, certain particular guns were given grandfather exceptions if they were manufactured before the laws went into effect.
And there have been (probably still are) laws that prohibit shortening the barrel of a rifle to make it into a handgun.  If it's manufactured as a handgun, then it's OK, but not if it's converted from a rifle.
The Remington XP-100 was an example.

(https://i.imgur.com/6HFr7t1.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 07, 2020, 01:24:21 AM
No.

IIRC, there were cases where, in the rash of gun-control laws of the late '60s and '70s, certain particular guns were given grandfather exceptions if they were manufactured before the laws went into effect.
And there have been (probably still are) laws that prohibit shortening the barrel of a rifle to make it into a handgun.  If it's manufactured as a handgun, then it's OK, but not if it's converted from a rifle.
The Remington XP-100 was an example.

(https://i.imgur.com/6HFr7t1.png)
Hmmph, I wonder where I got that idea from then.  
Thanks.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 07, 2020, 01:39:58 AM
I should have said "Not to my knowledge."  It's possible that there is some law somewhere about the age of firearms.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 07, 2020, 05:37:04 AM
https://twitter.com/odonnell_r/status/1302770525538840576?s=20
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 07, 2020, 06:26:59 AM

Under the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, any cartridge firearm made in or before 1898 ("pre-1899") is classified as an "antique", and is generally outside of Federal jurisdiction, as administered and enforced by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE).

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 07, 2020, 08:09:35 AM
Oh, I couldn’t agree more. Hope he goes to jail if true. 

But when you post politics- which you did and often do, the door is opened for other opinions and other politics. 
Isn't this the political thread? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 07, 2020, 09:13:58 AM
Frankly, when the acting head of the post office is accused of various crimes, saying that is just "random stuff" is silly. It can't be taken seriously.
As mentioned, I didn't read the article because it was pay walled. I didn't realize he was a political appointee to head the past office. I thought he was just a fundraiser. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 07, 2020, 09:18:47 AM
what do you mean various crimes

I thought we were only talking about one crime are there others not mentioned in the article
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 07, 2020, 09:19:48 AM
As mentioned, I didn't read the article because it was pay walled. I didn't realize he was a political appointee to head the past office. I thought he was just a fundraiser.
Sorry that was meant for HB. I mean everyone's reaction is going to be different - but I certainly object to the idea that mentioning the news of the day in the political thread is somehow wrong.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 07, 2020, 09:34:38 AM
Isn't this the political thread?
It wasn't supposed to be. In fact, it was supposed to be locked by now, and replaced by the weekly streams for that weekend's games. But, nope. So now we have this.

*click*
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 07, 2020, 01:07:35 PM
Under the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, any cartridge firearm made in or before 1898 ("pre-1899") is classified as an "antique", and is generally outside of Federal jurisdiction, as administered and enforced by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE).
Right.  But that's the opposite of not being able to sell old firearms.

However, looking back, I see that my second response to OAM could/should have been worded more clearly.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 07, 2020, 01:10:50 PM
It's Still All About Russia--and It's Outrageous (https://thebulwark.com/its-still-all-about-russia-and-its-outrageous/?utm_source=afternoon-newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=The+Bulwark+Newsletter&utm_campaign=23c9b2cc2a-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_09_03_09_14&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_f4bd64ac2e-23c9b2cc2a-80836886)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 07, 2020, 01:22:50 PM
Michigan is getting less blue every day

its definitely in play

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/2020/09/03/opinion-joe-biden-polling-worse-than-hillary-clinton-2016-donald-trump-election/5686440002/
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 07, 2020, 01:37:25 PM
It's Still All About Russia--and It's Outrageous (https://thebulwark.com/its-still-all-about-russia-and-its-outrageous/?utm_source=afternoon-newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=The+Bulwark+Newsletter&utm_campaign=23c9b2cc2a-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_09_03_09_14&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_f4bd64ac2e-23c9b2cc2a-80836886)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=mqTu_Btkr08

And I have no idea what to believe. The truth is probably somewhere between the links we both posted.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 07, 2020, 01:52:07 PM
Tin Foil Hats.....

The real enemy is China.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 07, 2020, 01:58:15 PM
Undisclosed sources have gone on record as saying if Biden wins China will put a statue of him in Tiananmen Square
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 07, 2020, 03:16:19 PM
It wasn't supposed to be. In fact, it was supposed to be locked by now, and replaced by the weekly streams for that weekend's games. But, nope. So now we have this.

*click*
We have BYU and Navy, and that will consume much of my focus. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 07, 2020, 03:44:52 PM
It's Still All About Russia--and It's Outrageous (https://thebulwark.com/its-still-all-about-russia-and-its-outrageous/?utm_source=afternoon-newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=The+Bulwark+Newsletter&utm_campaign=23c9b2cc2a-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_09_03_09_14&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_f4bd64ac2e-23c9b2cc2a-80836886)
Why bother, CWS? You know the playbook by now...


I guess "liberals" like us are just trying to weaken the best POTUS ever because we hate America.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 07, 2020, 03:58:50 PM
The China effort to influence the election worries me more, frankly.

At any rate, foreign actors including the US attempt to influence elections.  In general, they are pretty amateurish in their attempts.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 07, 2020, 04:02:01 PM
Why bother, CWS? You know the playbook by now...

  • It's fake news. It didn't happen. Who is the Bulwark anyway? Some liberal rag?
  • It may have happened, but it wasn't a big deal.
  • Okay, it happened and it was a big deal, but POTUS wasn't involved.
  • Okay, maybe it happened and it was a big deal and POTUS was involved, but it wasn't a crime.
  • Okay, maybe it happened and it was a big deal and POTUS was involved, and it was a crime, but it wasn't impeachable.
  • Okay, maybe it happened and it was a big deal and POTUS was involved and it was a crime and it was impeachable, but the [Republican] Senate just doesn't think it would be good for the country if we called witnesses and held a real trial and removed POTUS.
  • No accountability, and we hear Susan Collins: "Well I hope POTUS learned his lesson."
  • Look at Pelosi and the Democrats. SQUIRREL!
  • Republicans: "OMG, POTUS was totally exonerated. It was a witch hunt!"

I guess "liberals" like us are just trying to weaken the best POTUS ever because we hate America.


mailing out 80,000,000 unrequested ballots will do more to undermine this election then Russia will ever do
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 07, 2020, 04:04:05 PM
mailing out 80,000,000 unrequested ballots will do more to undermine this election then Russia will ever do
Has that happened?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 07, 2020, 04:05:46 PM
I requested an absentee ballot today, and showed the wife how to do it.  We also checked the box to get them for every election, routinely.  Cool.

I might even fill one in.  And mail it.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 07, 2020, 04:21:06 PM
Why bother, CWS? You know the playbook by now...

  • It's fake news. It didn't happen. Who is the Bulwark anyway? Some liberal rag?
  • It may have happened, but it wasn't a big deal.
  • Okay, it happened and it was a big deal, but POTUS wasn't involved.
  • Okay, maybe it happened and it was a big deal and POTUS was involved, but it wasn't a crime.
  • Okay, maybe it happened and it was a big deal and POTUS was involved, and it was a crime, but it wasn't impeachable.
  • Okay, maybe it happened and it was a big deal and POTUS was involved and it was a crime and it was impeachable, but the [Republican] Senate just doesn't think it would be good for the country if we called witnesses and held a real trial and removed POTUS.
  • No accountability, and we hear Susan Collins: "Well I hope POTUS learned his lesson."
  • Look at Pelosi and the Democrats. SQUIRREL!
  • Republicans: "OMG, POTUS was totally exonerated. It was a witch hunt!"

I guess "liberals" like us are just trying to weaken the best POTUS ever because we hate America.


Thanks.  Going with # 1.  It fits, just like Kavanaugh.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 07, 2020, 04:24:27 PM
https://247sports.com/college/ole-miss/board/103602/Contents/kamala-tweet-help-bailout-protestors-150900252/


Hey look over there! Squirrel!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 07, 2020, 04:24:42 PM
Has that happened?
Im not sure of each states status

I know here in Texas Harris county wants to send out over 2,000,000 unrequested ballots and the State is threatening to sue

not sure what the latest is
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 07, 2020, 04:26:39 PM
Im not sure of each states status

I know here in Texas Harris county wants to send out over 2,000,000 unrequested ballots and the State is threatening to sue

not sure what the latest is
just read that suit has been filed
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 07, 2020, 04:31:37 PM
I once read some wag who said the Trump campaign in 2016 couldn't even coordinate with itself, much less the Russians.

I grinned.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 07, 2020, 04:31:59 PM
What about the 80,000,000 you pulled from your ass?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 07, 2020, 04:33:35 PM
https://247sports.com/college/ole-miss/board/103602/Contents/kamala-tweet-help-bailout-protestors-150900252/


Hey look over there! Squirrel!
Always fun to try to set up the equation of protest=violence.

Sucks when someone points out that 93% of them are peaceful, huh? 

https://time.com/5886348/report-peaceful-protests/

Thanks.  Going with # 1.  It fits, just like Kavanaugh. 
Don't worry, you'll get to #9. It just takes time. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 07, 2020, 04:34:18 PM
Under the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, any cartridge firearm made in or before 1898 ("pre-1899") is classified as an "antique", and is generally outside of Federal jurisdiction, as administered and enforced by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE).


So what's that mean - outside of Federal jurisdiction?  I knew something had to do with the date of a gun.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 07, 2020, 04:35:01 PM
Why bother, CWS? You know the playbook by now...

  • It's fake news. It didn't happen. Who is the Bulwark anyway? Some liberal rag?
  • It may have happened, but it wasn't a big deal.
  • Okay, it happened and it was a big deal, but POTUS wasn't involved.
  • Okay, maybe it happened and it was a big deal and POTUS was involved, but it wasn't a crime.
  • Okay, maybe it happened and it was a big deal and POTUS was involved, and it was a crime, but it wasn't impeachable.
  • Okay, maybe it happened and it was a big deal and POTUS was involved and it was a crime and it was impeachable, but the [Republican] Senate just doesn't think it would be good for the country if we called witnesses and held a real trial and removed POTUS.
  • No accountability, and we hear Susan Collins: "Well I hope POTUS learned his lesson."
  • Look at Pelosi and the Democrats. SQUIRREL!
  • Republicans: "OMG, POTUS was totally exonerated. It was a witch hunt!"

I guess "liberals" like us are just trying to weaken the best POTUS ever because we hate America.


Post of the year.
Been saying it for years.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 07, 2020, 04:36:13 PM
I once read some wag who said the Trump campaign in 2016 couldn't even coordinate with itself, much less the Russians.

I grinned.
In all honesty, I'm not convinced there was collusion. 

I think Russia wanted Trump to win. 

I think Trump benefited from Russia's interference. 

I think Trump's been very deferential to Russian interests since being elected... Even to the point where I've started looking at his behavior and asking "what would Russia want" and that seems to be the most likely Trump decision. 

I'm just not sure Trump's campaign actively colluded with Russia to win. More that they were fellow travelers working towards the same goal. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 07, 2020, 04:42:24 PM
https://justthenews.com/accountability/russia-and-ukraine-scandals/russia-collusion-hoax-decade-deceit-and-advent-new-info
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 07, 2020, 04:42:57 PM
I think the whole collusion idea is the SQUIRREL distraction.


ANOTHER COUNTRY MEDDLED IN OUR PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION AND THERE WERE NO CONSEQUENCES.  The benefactor won and remained in office.  The country in question hasn't faced any meaningful penalty, and now it's all about to happen again.



THAT is the point.  And it was lost on collusion.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 07, 2020, 04:43:54 PM
https://justthenews.com/accountability/russia-and-ukraine-scandals/russia-collusion-hoax-decade-deceit-and-advent-new-info
Why are all of your links from radically far-right outlets?  Ohhhhh, right, never mind.  As you were.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 07, 2020, 04:44:39 PM
Always fun to try to set up the equation of protest=violence.

Sucks when someone points out that 93% of them are peaceful, huh?

https://time.com/5886348/report-peaceful-protests/
Don't worry, you'll get to #9. It just takes time.
Actually, that was my second choice.  I just used the Kavanaugh example of liberal criminal behavior because YOU can’t blame that on POTUS, he was not involved.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 07, 2020, 04:46:36 PM
Im not sure of each states status

I know here in Texas Harris county wants to send out over 2,000,000 unrequested ballots and the State is threatening to sue

not sure what the latest is
Upon further review, it is not ballots, but ballot applications. Also upon further review, the setup doesn't allow voting by mail for the sake of voting by mail, so one can only do it if they are old, disabled, out of town or in jail. So probably not a great use of resources and should be targeted to the old/disabled.

Anyway, seems more sound than fury and in parts silly on both sides. 

(I think back to at one point after a September move that a poll worker said if I registered at the voting place, it was unclear if I'd be listed by the time the election rolled around, but absentee would get me a ballot in time. It ended up ironic because I absolutely wasn't in town on election day for work reasons, though I didn't realize at the time)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 07, 2020, 04:47:01 PM
Why are all of your links from radically far-right outlets?  Ohhhhh, right, never mind.  As you were.
Because, does it matter where we get Kamala Harris’s tweet from?  Do you think the white boogeymen made it up?

Do you notice most of what I am sharing is validated?  No “ sources” close to the situation, which seems to be the Dems calling card.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 07, 2020, 04:48:02 PM
What about the 80,000,000 you pulled from your ass?
thats the total estimated number that will be sent out by all the states who say they want to do it

it has been reported several times by the media
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 07, 2020, 04:53:24 PM
I think the whole collusion idea is the SQUIRREL distraction.


ANOTHER COUNTRY MEDDLED IN OUR PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION AND THERE WERE NO CONSEQUENCES.  The benefactor won and remained in office.  The country in question hasn't faced any meaningful penalty, and now it's all about to happen again.



THAT is the point.  And it was lost on collusion.
I could actually see the logic in this.  But who is meddling in this election more, China or Russia?  I have seen much evidence presented that would suggest it is China by a wide Margin.  And you KNOW who they favor- Trump is the first one to at least try to hold them accountable.

And lastly, who is in charge of a national election? Who has responsibility to limit or reduce foreign interference?    The administration.Under whose watch did this interference take place?  Your boy Obama.  

where does this “ interference” take place for the most part?  On social media platforms.  Are those very liberal or conservative?  That’s right, they are VERY liberal.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 07, 2020, 04:58:46 PM
Always fun to try to set up the equation of protest=violence.

Sucks when someone points out that 93% of them are peaceful, huh?

https://time.com/5886348/report-peaceful-protests/
Don't worry, you'll get to #9. It just takes time.
Ahhh, I See now. Your saying the bail money was for PEACEFUL protestors who just happened to get arrested.  Makes sense, I have heard the Dems for 100 days saying the protests are peaceful.  It’s amazing how many times I watch them saying that with fires and violence going on in camera view.


By the way, is that the same source that claims the protests did not spread the virus?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 07, 2020, 04:59:50 PM
I think the whole collusion idea is the SQUIRREL distraction.

ANOTHER COUNTRY MEDDLED IN OUR PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION AND THERE WERE NO CONSEQUENCES.  The benefactor won and remained in office.  The country in question hasn't faced any meaningful penalty, and now it's all about to happen again.

THAT is the point.  And it was lost on collusion.
OK.  What would you propose to be done about it?  What should Obama have done about it?  I suppose he could have told Putin to "Cut it out".  That would work.

Don't you think Russia meddled in 2012?  In 2008?  In 1980?  I do.  There isn't a whole lot we can do about it.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 07, 2020, 05:04:31 PM
What about the 80,000,000 you pulled from your ass?
He pulled out of extremely liberal New York Times ass. 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/08/11/us/politics/vote-by-mail-us-states.html


To be fair, it seems they included absentee ballots in that total, which I have heard not a single person object to.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 07, 2020, 05:07:07 PM
The Governor here the other day said that he was thankful for the mostly peaceful protests in Kenosha. Meanwhile, lots of the town is burnt to a crisp and people lost businesses and jobs and inventory and money.

I'm pretty sure the Governor didn't take the same tour that the President did last week.

Most all windows are boarded up, but it's pretty cool that artists have been painting uplifting murals and such on them. This town will recover. I'm convinced of that.

(https://i.imgur.com/Wz1VAyf.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/NQwEZHv.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 07, 2020, 05:12:49 PM
https://justthenews.com/accountability/russia-and-ukraine-scandals/russia-collusion-hoax-decade-deceit-and-advent-new-info
There's a lot to unpack there, some of it beyond my knowledge. However, I will look at this:


Quote
House Democrats in their impeachment proceedings declared that there was evidence that Trump withheld foreign aid in a July 2019 call with Ukraine’s president as pressure for an investigation of the Bidens.

Not true. Ukrainian prosecutors had already opened the investigation months earlier, and there was no mention of foreign aid being tied to a Biden investigation in the call.
First, the GAO has definitively affirmed that the President and the OMB (an executive agency branch) withheld aid illegally, and that to be legal the President would have had to officially follow certain procedures and disclosures as to the reason for withholding the aid--which obviously never happened. 

https://www.gao.gov/assets/710/703909.pdf

Second, you can look at the "transcript" of the call between Trump and the Ukranian President. (https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf) In it, there was the classic and well-known point where the Ukranian President asks about purchases of Javelin missiles and POTUS replies with "I'd like you to do us a favor, though". The immediate ask was to have them investigate Ukranian interference in the election, which was a sort of fever dream considering it was Russia, not Ukraine, that did so. 

But the very next statements were the Ukrainian President talking about how he viewed the US as a "strategic partnership" and then assured POTUS that all the investigations would be done "open and candididly". The very next statement by POTUS was directly about the prosecutor and Biden's son. And said "Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into that..."

The call between POTUS and Ukraine was July 25, 2019. The decision by the OMB to withhold the duly approved aid was July 25, 2019. 

Isn't that... convenient?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 07, 2020, 05:25:24 PM
He pulled out of extremely liberal New York Times ass.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/08/11/us/politics/vote-by-mail-us-states.html


To be fair, it seems they included absentee ballots in that total, which I have heard not a single person object to.
If that's what 320 was referring to, he mislabeled it. That says they expect to have 80 million come in. That's notably different from a subset of states sending 80 million ballots out.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 07, 2020, 05:26:36 PM
Ahhh, I See now. Your saying the bail money was for PEACEFUL protestors who just happened to get arrested.  Makes sense, I have heard the Dems for 100 days saying the protests are peaceful.  It’s amazing how many times I watch them saying that with fires and violence going on in camera view.


By the way, is that the same source that claims the protests did not spread the virus?
No, I was just sort of pointing out that there is an equivocation of protest=violence, actively fomented by certain elements... Where it doesn't fit.

But... The bail system is what it is. One would suggest that whether people who were arrested unjustly for peaceful protesting or whether they were arrested justly for committing violent crimes, all are entitled to bail as long as they are not a flight risk. Sure beats rotting in a jail cell until the government--which is Constitutionally required to give you a "speedy" trial--gets around to it 6-12 months after the offense. 

As for the protests/virus issue... I don't know what "source" you'd accept. But the numbers basically have not shown a spike after the protests as far as I can tell. Have you seen spikes localized to the areas where protests were most prevalent? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 07, 2020, 05:26:44 PM
Upon further review, it is not ballots, but ballot applications. Also upon further review, the setup doesn't allow voting by mail for the sake of voting by mail, so one can only do it if they are old, disabled, out of town or in jail. So probably not a great use of resources and should be targeted to the old/disabled.

Anyway, seems more sound than fury and in parts silly on both sides.

(I think back to at one point after a September move that a poll worker said if I registered at the voting place, it was unclear if I'd be listed by the time the election rolled around, but absentee would get me a ballot in time. It ended up ironic because I absolutely wasn't in town on election day for work reasons, though I didn't realize at the time)
its not applications that would be absentee voting

this is the actual ballots sent out blank to all registered voters
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 07, 2020, 05:30:19 PM
As it stands, the wife and I are talking about voting in person instead of absentee this election, because we're not exactly sure USPS will be reliable. 

Just a note... We're NOT going to vote twice (a felony), even though POTUS suggested that voters in NC should vote twice...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/05/politics/trump-vote-twice-north-carolina/index.html
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 07, 2020, 05:30:24 PM
There's a lot to unpack there, some of it beyond my knowledge. However, I will look at this:

First, the GAO has definitively affirmed that the President and the OMB (an executive agency branch) withheld aid illegally, and that to be legal the President would have had to officially follow certain procedures and disclosures as to the reason for withholding the aid--which obviously never happened.

https://www.gao.gov/assets/710/703909.pdf

Second, you can look at the "transcript" of the call between Trump and the Ukranian President. (https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf) In it, there was the classic and well-known point where the Ukranian President asks about purchases of Javelin missiles and POTUS replies with "I'd like you to do us a favor, though". The immediate ask was to have them investigate Ukranian interference in the election, which was a sort of fever dream considering it was Russia, not Ukraine, that did so.

But the very next statements were the Ukrainian President talking about how he viewed the US as a "strategic partnership" and then assured POTUS that all the investigations would be done "open and candididly". The very next statement by POTUS was directly about the prosecutor and Biden's son. And said "Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into that..."

The call between POTUS and Ukraine was July 25, 2019. The decision by the OMB to withhold the duly approved aid was July 25, 2019.

Isn't that... convenient?

why are you retrying this 
waste of everyones time
but I guess its all you guys have
so on 2nd thought feel free
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 07, 2020, 05:32:26 PM
As it stands, the wife and I are talking about voting in person instead of absentee this election, because we're not exactly sure USPS will be reliable.

Just a note... We're NOT going to vote twice (a felony), even though POTUS suggested that voters in NC should vote twice...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/05/politics/trump-vote-twice-north-carolina/index.html
I ordered absentee applications for my wife and me and also for our two cats though I think one of them might be a dem I have to be fair
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 07, 2020, 05:38:20 PM
its not applications that would be absentee voting

this is the actual ballots sent out blank to all registered voters
Then this is wrong?
https://www.texastribune.org/2020/09/02/Harris-County-absentee-ballott/
 (https://www.texastribune.org/2020/09/02/Harris-County-absentee-ballott/)
Also, here's the suit itself: file:///Users/benbreiner/Downloads/DID11365_1_083120.pdf

 (http://file:///Users/benbreiner/Downloads/DID11365_1_083120.pdf)Under Issue Presented: Whether Respondent is violating Texas Election Code §84.012 by sending applications for mail-in ballots to over 2.37 million registered voters in Harris County regardless of whether the individual has requested the application or has a “disability” under Texas Election Code

So this Harris County thing isn't about blank ballots. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 07, 2020, 05:38:34 PM
its not applications that would be absentee voting

this is the actual ballots sent out blank to all registered voters
yes the estimated 80 million includes mailout as well as absentee ballots

so the number of mail out ballots will be a lot less the the 80 million number
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 07, 2020, 05:40:48 PM
Then this is wrong?
https://www.texastribune.org/2020/09/02/Harris-County-absentee-ballott/
 (https://www.texastribune.org/2020/09/02/Harris-County-absentee-ballott/)
Also, here's the suit itself: file:///Users/benbreiner/Downloads/DID11365_1_083120.pdf

 (http://file:///Users/benbreiner/Downloads/DID11365_1_083120.pdf)Under Issue Presented: Whether Respondent is violating Texas Election Code §84.012 by sending applications for mail-in ballots to over 2.37 million registered voters in Harris County regardless of whether the individual has requested the application or has a “disability” under Texas Election Code

So this Harris County thing isn't about blank ballots.
I think youre right on this upon rereading google
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 07, 2020, 05:40:55 PM
I ordered absentee applications for my wife and me and also for our two cats though I think one of them might be a dem I have to be fair
Here's the application is you want to print out a bunch. https://www.harrisvotes.com/Docs/VotingInfo/Ballot%20By%20Mail%20Application%20-%20English.pdf

( (https://www.harrisvotes.com/Docs/VotingInfo/Ballot By Mail Application - English.pdf)This issue is kinda silly on all fronts, but not the ones where people want to make it seem nefarious)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 07, 2020, 05:45:00 PM
Here's the application is you want to print out a bunch. https://www.harrisvotes.com/Docs/VotingInfo/Ballot%20By%20Mail%20Application%20-%20English.pdf

( (https://www.harrisvotes.com/Docs/VotingInfo/Ballot By Mail Application - English.pdf)This issue is kinda silly on all fronts, but not the ones where people want to make it seem nefarious)
I have no objection to the absentee method but I do just mailing out the ballot unrequested which I think is going to be done in 7 states
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 07, 2020, 06:30:27 PM
I think youre right on this upon rereading google
FWIW, I still think the state should put a stop to it just because the overall push was kinda a waste of resources. If it's targeted to the old folks and disabled folks, fine (I don't know how it works with the folks in jail. Target them too if you want). 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 07, 2020, 06:49:26 PM
There's a lot to unpack there, some of it beyond my knowledge. However, I will look at this:

First, the GAO has definitively affirmed that the President and the OMB (an executive agency branch) withheld aid illegally, and that to be legal the President would have had to officially follow certain procedures and disclosures as to the reason for withholding the aid--which obviously never happened.

https://www.gao.gov/assets/710/703909.pdf

Second, you can look at the "transcript" of the call between Trump and the Ukranian President. (https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf) In it, there was the classic and well-known point where the Ukranian President asks about purchases of Javelin missiles and POTUS replies with "I'd like you to do us a favor, though". The immediate ask was to have them investigate Ukranian interference in the election, which was a sort of fever dream considering it was Russia, not Ukraine, that did so.

But the very next statements were the Ukrainian President talking about how he viewed the US as a "strategic partnership" and then assured POTUS that all the investigations would be done "open and candididly". The very next statement by POTUS was directly about the prosecutor and Biden's son. And said "Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into that..."

The call between POTUS and Ukraine was July 25, 2019. The decision by the OMB to withhold the duly approved aid was July 25, 2019.

Isn't that... convenient?

So let’s agree on something for the sake of argument because I do not mean to defend POTUS in this.  Although asking for a personal favor and using the actual words he used I think it’s a stretch to say it’s anything more than him being an asshole. 

but for the sake of conversation lets say I’m wrong about that and that is illegal and he should have been impeached. Is it because, as everyone who was in favor of impeachment claimed, that he used his position of authority to go after a potential political opponent?

if yes, how much did he spend? How much did he hide?

now that has been established factually that the FISA documents were falsely and unconstitutionally and illegally used as the start to the entire Russian collusion investigation, as well as numerous high-level Democrats knowing about it, and several other illegal activities including using false information that they knew was false, is this not the same thing only on a much bigger scale? This one cost $32 million in two years of divisiveness.
That’s what I don’t get. The same people who want to throw Trump in the fire over doing that will sit here and defend the incredibly illegal and immoral activities going on in the intelligence community and the FBI that were used to start the Russia investigation.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 07, 2020, 06:50:40 PM
FWIW, I still think the state should put a stop to it just because the overall push was kinda a waste of resources. If it's targeted to the old folks and disabled folks, fine (I don't know how it works with the folks in jail. Target them too if you want).
right now if youre over 65 you can vote absentee in Texas
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 07, 2020, 06:51:48 PM
Trump was actually impeached of course.  Just a point of order.  Pet peeve.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 07, 2020, 07:03:39 PM
Trump was actually impeached of course.  Just a point of order.  Pet peeve.
Sorry CD.  Details....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 07, 2020, 07:05:56 PM

I am gross and perverted
I'm obsessed 'n deranged
I have existed for years
But very little has changed
I'm the tool of the Government
And industry too
For I am destined to rule
And regulate you



I may be vile and pernicious
But you can't look away
I make you think I'm delicious
With the stuff that I say
I'm the best you can get
Have you guessed me yet?
I'm the slime oozin' out
From your TV set



You will obey me while I lead you
And eat the garbage that I feed you
Until the day that we don't need you
Don't go for help . . . no one will heed you
Your mind is totally controlled
It has been stuffed into my mold
And you will do as you are told
Until the rights to you are sold



That's right, folks
Don't touch that dial



Well, I am the slime from your video
Oozin' along on your livin' room floor
I am the slime from your video
Can't stop the slime, people, lookit me go

I'm the Slime by Frank Zappa





Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 07, 2020, 08:51:52 PM

lets get this thread back on topic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUEqh07E4dY&index=11&list=RDORyzsMZPPUg
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 07, 2020, 09:07:18 PM
lets get this thread back on topic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUEqh07E4dY&index=11&list=RDORyzsMZPPUg
Ray Stevens aging pretty well

https://youtu.be/XtzoUu7w-YM
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 07, 2020, 09:32:55 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/RmO8P3v.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 07, 2020, 10:44:35 PM
mailing out 80,000,000 unrequested ballots will do more to undermine this election then Russia will ever do
I think telling people to vote twice will do much more damage than mail-in voting will do.
And so will ensuring that the USPS can't handle the volume of mail that mail-in voting will generate.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 07, 2020, 11:02:43 PM
Trump closing in on Pennsylvania

https://www.inquirer.com/politics/election/pennsylvania-presidential-election-monmouth-poll-trump-biden-20200902.html
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 07, 2020, 11:07:08 PM
I think telling people to vote twice will do much more damage than mail-in voting will do.
And so will ensuring that the USPS can't handle the volume of mail that mail-in voting will generate.
heres the truth on Trump saying to vote twice


https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-vote-twice-north-carolina/

Ive seen no evidence that any action by Trump was taken to slow down the USPS
please feel free to share what you know details please
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 07, 2020, 11:16:24 PM
right now if youre over 65 you can vote absentee in Texas
Correct, or if you're disabled, out of town or in jail. 

Targeting the old and disabled for mailing extra apps too seems not so hard. Jail, maybe more tricky. It's honestly mostly for older folks because the application is available for printing online, so if you're of a certain age, shouldn't be bad. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 08, 2020, 01:12:03 AM
I keep getting calls about getting a ballot sent to me.  I'm just going to vote in person. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 08, 2020, 04:06:33 AM
And so will ensuring that the USPS can't handle the volume of mail that mail-in voting will generate.
Presuming the volume of mail is spread out over a week or so, it would not be an unusual burden over the normal.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 08, 2020, 08:07:00 AM
Early voting is available here, for a few weeks leading up to each election.  There are fewer polling locations, but it's spread out over a long time period.  I've never stood in a line of more than 5 or 7 people, so that's what I'll be doing again.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 08, 2020, 10:04:36 AM
I think telling people to vote twice will do much more damage than mail-in voting will do.
And so will ensuring that the USPS can't handle the volume of mail that mail-in voting will generate.
Trump did NOT suggest that people vote twice. He stated that you should fill out the ballot sent to you and send it in. Then on election day, go to the polling station to see if your vote was registered. It is was, fine. If not, then vote there and have the mailed in vote cancelled. If that state is not capable to doing this, then it shows how the state is not ready to deal with mail in voting. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 10:12:18 AM
Trump did NOT suggest that people vote twice. He stated that you should fill out the ballot sent to you and send it in. Then on election day, go to the polling station to see if your vote was registered. It is was, fine. If not, then vote there and have the mailed in vote cancelled. If that state is not capable to doing this, then it shows how the state is not ready to deal with mail in voting.
yep Ive already responded to this a few posts up
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 08, 2020, 10:31:20 AM
yep Ive already responded to this a few posts up
This is the problem in the media. I've seen numerous headlines CLAIM that Trump encouraged supporters to vote twice knowing that is not what he said. Then people read the headlines and assume that to be the truth. The MSM is undermining any credibility they ever had with this type of yellow journalism. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 10:40:30 AM
This is the problem in the media. I've seen numerous headlines CLAIM that Trump encouraged supporters to vote twice knowing that is not what he said. Then people read the headlines and assume that to be the truth. The MSM is undermining any credibility they ever had with this type of yellow journalism.
this is done many times to him

theres was good people on both sides is an example

they know when they print it thats its a lie but they hate Trump so much it causes them to go mad
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on September 08, 2020, 10:52:09 AM
I keep getting calls about getting a ballot sent to me.  I'm just going to vote in person.
who you voting for? 

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/xTiN0mKP2Am8PuQW0U/source.gif)

JK.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 10:54:53 AM
good one Mdot
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on September 08, 2020, 10:56:45 AM
I swear to god I didn't like Trump at all- won't say hated- because I reserve that word only for the most vile of creatures- like say Nancy Pelosi- but I honestly did not like the guy at all. 

All the BS, bashing, witch hunts, and over the top idiocy from the other side might have actually pushed me into voting for the guy come November just out of spite. Still undecided on if I'll even vote or not, but if I do it will be for Trump and you can thank the corrupt as all hell DNC, all the 20-something white hipster-douchenozzles, left-wing lunatics, and the worthless mainstream media. Really just feel like giving them all a giant middle finger.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 08, 2020, 11:02:39 AM
It always feels weird when people go on and on about Nancy Pelosi, who has always been kind of a middle of the road milquetoast kind of Speaker.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 08, 2020, 11:09:34 AM
It always feels weird when people go on and on about Nancy Pelosi, who has always been kind of a middle of the road milquetoast kind of Speaker.

(https://i.imgur.com/cxTFn7i.png)


Terrible hairdo for sure.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 08, 2020, 11:30:15 AM
heres the truth on Trump saying to vote twice


https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-vote-twice-north-carolina/

Ive seen no evidence that any action by Trump was taken to slow down the USPS
please feel free to share what you know details please
Trump did NOT suggest that people vote twice. He stated that you should fill out the ballot sent to you and send it in. Then on election day, go to the polling station to see if your vote was registered. It is was, fine. If not, then vote there and have the mailed in vote cancelled. If that state is not capable to doing this, then it shows how the state is not ready to deal with mail in voting.
This is the problem in the media. I've seen numerous headlines CLAIM that Trump encouraged supporters to vote twice knowing that is not what he said. Then people read the headlines and assume that to be the truth. The MSM is undermining any credibility they ever had with this type of yellow journalism.
Okay... Let's go to the videotape! 



Quote
On your ballots, if you get the unsolicited ballots, send it in and then go make sure it counted, and then if it doesn’t tabulate, you vote. You just vote. And then if they tabulate it very late, which they shouldn’t be doing, they’ll see you voted and so it won’t count. So, send it in early, and then go and vote. And if it’s not tabulated, you vote, and the vote is gonna count. You can’t let them take your vote away. These people are playing dirty politics. Dirty politics.

So if you have an absentee ballot, or as I call it a solicited ballot, you send it in. But I would check it in any event. I would go and follow it and go vote.
I can't imagine how anyone would suggest he said to fill out your mail-in ballot, send it in early, and then go and vote. 

Perfectly clear. 

And I can't imagine that there will be a bunch of MAGA-hat Karens screaming, berating, potentially accosting poll workers on Nov 3 because they'd sent in their mail-in ballot but aren't being allowed to vote in person. 

That won't happen. I'm sure of it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 08, 2020, 11:30:28 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/AVbc1wm.png)



While suturing a cut on the hand of a 75 year old  Virginia farmer, the doctor struck up a conversation with the old man.


Eventually the topic got around to Biden and his possible role as our president.
The old farmer said, 'Well, ya know, Biden is a 'Post Turtle''.
Not being familiar with the term, the doctor asked him, what a 'post turtle' was.
The old rancher said, 'When you're driving down a country road and you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a 'post turtle'.

 
The old farmer saw the puzzled look on the doctor's face so he continued to explain. 
"You know he didn't get up there by himself, he doesn't belong up there, he doesn't know what to do while he's up there, he's elevated beyond his ability to function, and you just wonder what kind of dumb ass put him up there to begin with."

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 11:30:36 AM
one of the reasons Trump gets so much grief from the media and the left in general is because he stands up to them

he doesnt take their crap without pushing back and it drives them crazy because republicans arent supposed to act this way

its these traits that his base loves and why their support wont go away

the left never has learned this and thinks if they keep giving him crap that will bring him down but his push back beats them every time
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 11:34:40 AM
Okay... Let's go to the videotape!


I can't imagine how anyone would suggest he said to fill out your mail-in ballot, send it in early, and then go and vote.

Perfectly clear.

And I can't imagine that there will be a bunch of MAGA-hat Karens screaming, berating, potentially accosting poll workers on Nov 3 because they'd sent in their mail-in ballot but aren't being allowed to vote in person.

That won't happen. I'm sure of it.

the dems are just mad cause if both sides do this it takes their advantage away for stealing the election
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 08, 2020, 11:42:40 AM
It always feels weird when people go on and on about Nancy Pelosi, who has always been kind of a middle of the road milquetoast kind of Speaker.
The only thing that this post proves is that you are even farther to the Left than she is. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 08, 2020, 11:45:23 AM
I know folks who think Bernie Sanders is a conservative and not nearly far enough Left, and folks who think Trump is not nearly far enough Right, etc.

It all depends on YOUR position on things.

I see Pelosi as an "operator", someone who clings to power and influence and really has not underlying core beliefs.  She's for whatever secures her power.  She's far from alone in that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 11:51:58 AM
I know folks who think Bernie Sanders is a conservative and not nearly far enough Left, and folks who think Trump is not nearly far enough Right, etc.

It all depends on YOUR position on things.

I see Pelosi as an "operator", someone who clings to power and influence and really has not underlying core beliefs.  She's for whatever secures her power.  She's far from alone in that.
Pelosi will do and or say anything if it keeps Trump from getting positive reaction from the the voters

Right now she is keeping us from sending out a 2nd batch of stimulus funds because the republicans wont shell out an additional 2 trillion dollars to bail out the badly run blue cities

pretty selfish
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 08, 2020, 11:53:54 AM
Yeah, she's playing politics to try and retain power.  McConnell does the same thing.  They are both "operators" in my view.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 08, 2020, 11:56:37 AM
one of the reasons Trump gets so much grief from the media and the left in general is because he stands up to them

he doesnt take their crap without pushing back and it drives them crazy because republicans arent supposed to act this way

its these traits that his base loves and why their support wont go away

the left never has learned this and thinks if they keep giving him crap that will bring him down but his push back beats them every time
If this is held up as a good thing, doesn't that just make our discourse shriller and shriller? It's basically saying the president acts like OAM (take swings and such) with different beliefs, and because one agrees with those beliefs, it's a good thing. 

It's not super shocking that if you act like an out and out jerk in someone's direction often, they will give you grief. That's the way human interaction works. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 08, 2020, 12:00:11 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/YeoHjyL.png)


In a crowded city at a busy bus stop, a woman who was waiting for a bus was wearing a tight leather skirt. As the bus stopped and it was her turn to get on, she became aware that her skirt was too tight to allow her leg to come up to the height of the first step of the bus.

Slightly embarrassed and with a quick smile to the bus driver, she reached behind her to unzip her skirt a little, thinking that this would give her enough slack to raise her leg.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/gusXYQQx7al2145K_c8vjH6aSIglRxjva13Oi_jM0mHqQOVbps-d-HaZcE8CHAqGiTnvXRJcxQJHeuE2d04eHWdJG764TcWt71US2Q35IS1a5IujZpN4eBpEAlm6Dpy33Dpw-sLn)
Again, she tried to make the step only to discover she still couldn't. So, a little more embarrassed, she once again reached behind her to unzip her skirt a little more.
For the second time she attempted the step, and once again, much to her chagrin, she could not raise her leg. With a little smile to the driver, she again reached behind to unzip a little more and again was unable to make the step.
About this time, a large Texan who was standing behind her picked her up easily by the waist and placed her gently on the step of the bus.
She went ballistic and turned to the would-be Samaritan and screeched, "How dare you touch my body! I don't even know who you are!'
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/WEzMzJZGY5MCY8b_8wSbvVPaPnJ7pLLhZXC1S3b1a0IdhNLAmA6e_Ta6o86Qa1TETahNEi84OFTYxkfAMrol_1oSHZteQRw5pFer2UcbNkFfsiwkFoAivTRChUsmPr2RuVAfU9x-)
The Texan smiled and drawled, "Well, ma'am, normally I would agree with you, but after you unzipped my fly three times, I kinda figured we was friends."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 12:08:25 PM
If this is held up as a good thing, doesn't that just make our discourse shriller and shriller? It's basically saying the president acts like OAM (take swings and such) with different beliefs, and because one agrees with those beliefs, it's a good thing.

It's not super shocking that if you act like an out and out jerk in someone's direction often, they will give you grief. That's the way human interaction works.
if you tell someone the same lie over and over pretty soon it becomes accepted as fact
thats the dem and the media approach
push back is necessary and without it you will be eaten alive by the left

does Trump push back too often or sometimes in the wrong way the answer is yes but its better to error on the over done side then to not push back enough

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 08, 2020, 12:12:52 PM
🤣
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 08, 2020, 12:17:48 PM
I wish Trump would be more Presidential or professional or whatever word you want to use.  He does the bring the civility in the room down a level.

I actually don’t mind it so much with the media but when he called Biden a stupid person yesterday I just rolled my eyes.  I’m trying to teach my kids you can disagree with someone without resorting to insults. It would help if the POTUS would reinforce that message.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 08, 2020, 12:23:05 PM
I wish Trump would be more Presidential or professional or whatever word you want to use.  He does the bring the civility in the room down a level.

I actually don’t mind it so much with the media but when he called Biden a stupid person yesterday I just rolled my eyes.  I’m trying to teach my kids you can disagree with someone without resorting to insults. It would help if the POTUS would reinforce that message.


"They asked me would I like to debate this gentleman, and I said no. I said, 'If we were in high school, I'd take him behind the gym and beat the hell out of him,'" said Biden, getting laughter and applause from the crowd at the University of Miami.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 08, 2020, 12:26:09 PM
damn it, I clicked on the political thread again
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 08, 2020, 12:38:12 PM

"They asked me would I like to debate this gentleman, and I said no. I said, 'If we were in high school, I'd take him behind the gym and beat the hell out of him,'" said Biden, getting laughter and applause from the crowd at the University of Miami.
Yeah, I get it but I can’t help but wonder if this just a response to Trump’s incivility. Biden has been in politics forever. Is there a history of him saying he’d like to kick his opponent’s ass?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 08, 2020, 12:42:08 PM
Yeah, I get it but I can’t help but wonder if this just a response to Trump’s incivility. Biden has been in politics forever. Is there a history of him saying he’d like to kick his opponent’s ass?
Not that he recalls.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 08, 2020, 12:43:40 PM
Okay... Let's go to the videotape!

Quote
On your ballots, if you get the unsolicited ballots, send it in and then go make sure it counted, and then if it doesn’t tabulate, you vote. You just vote. And then if they tabulate it very late, which they shouldn’t be doing, they’ll see you voted and so it won’t count. So, send it in early, and then go and vote. And if it’s not tabulated, you vote, and the vote is gonna count. You can’t let them take your vote away. These people are playing dirty politics. Dirty politics.

So if you have an absentee ballot, or as I call it a solicited ballot, you send it in. But I would check it in any event. I would go and follow it and go vote.


I can't imagine how anyone would suggest he said to fill out your mail-in ballot, send it in early, and then go and vote.

Perfectly clear.

And I can't imagine that there will be a bunch of MAGA-hat Karens screaming, berating, potentially accosting poll workers on Nov 3 because they'd sent in their mail-in ballot but aren't being allowed to vote in person.

That won't happen. I'm sure of it.
Apparently, you missed the very first sentence in your quote.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 12:44:16 PM
I wish Trump would be more Presidential or professional or whatever word you want to use.  He does the bring the civility in the room down a level.

I actually don’t mind it so much with the media but when he called Biden a stupid person yesterday I just rolled my eyes.  I’m trying to teach my kids you can disagree with someone without resorting to insults. It would help if the POTUS would reinforce that message.
see the thing that we sometimes forget is that Trump is not a politician he is a New York businessman and because of this he has a very low tolerance for personal attacks

he tends to lash out at folks who he feels lied about him

is this a good character trait not really 

the other side of the coin is his base always knows he has their backs and puts America first and after 8 years of Obama thats very appealing

so like it or not Trump is going to be Trump rough edges and all but Id much rather be led by him then a politician
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 08, 2020, 12:45:47 PM
Yeah, I get it but I can’t help but wonder if this just a response to Trump’s incivility. Biden has been in politics forever. Is there a history of him saying he’d like to kick his opponent’s ass?
Quote
Biden told more than 800 ticketed supporters that Romney wants to repeal the financial regulations enacted after the Wall Street crash of 2008. "He's going to let the big banks once again write their own rules - unchain Wall Street!" Biden said. Then he added, "They're going to put you all back in chains" with their economic and regulatory policies.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 08, 2020, 12:49:47 PM
Yeah, I get it but I can’t help but wonder if this just a response to Trump’s incivility. Biden has been in politics forever. Is there a history of him saying he’d like to kick his opponent’s ass?
Here is an article that highlights a couple of more occaisions.

https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/11/joe-biden-should-probably-stop-threatening-voters-who-could-beat-him-up/
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 08, 2020, 01:00:07 PM
Here is an article that highlights a couple of more occaisions.

https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/11/joe-biden-should-probably-stop-threatening-voters-who-could-beat-him-up/
Fair enough. I’d still like to see Trump tone it down a bit though.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 01:09:27 PM
Fair enough. I’d still like to see Trump tone it down a bit though.
yep and Id like to see the dems and the media also tone it down

but until they do we'll just stay at defcon 2
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 08, 2020, 01:14:35 PM
Not that he recalls.
😅😅
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 01:17:15 PM
how quick we forget how we got here

the moment Trump was elected the dems started making statements about impeachment

they recounted every close election state

they tried to get the electoral delegates to vote against the way their state voted

The Russia crap started involving an independent investigation

The Kavanaugh confirmation circus

Impeachment

Trump has overcome all of this but it really pissed him off

so the normal person should try to understand why Trump is Trump




Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 08, 2020, 01:34:57 PM
so the normal person should try to understand why Trump is Trump
Trump was Trump before the election. 

We have decades of history of him in the public eye before the 2016 election, and none of it is inconsistent with his behavior now. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 08, 2020, 01:38:08 PM


It is nice to finally have someone that is willing to give the White Left a small dose of their own medicine. I will enjoy it while it lasts, because it is a once in a lifetime phenomenon. No one has ever had the balls to do it before, and they never will again. I will forever be grateful for his stand. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 08, 2020, 01:38:23 PM
Trump was Trump before the election.

We have decades of history of him in the public eye before the 2016 election, and none of it is inconsistent with his behavior now.
Both are true statements. 

Trump has always been kind of a jerk.
The Media and the left have been attacking him from the moment he came down the escalator.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 01:38:43 PM
Trump was Trump before the election.

We have decades of history of him in the public eye before the 2016 election, and none of it is inconsistent with his behavior now.
the left has never learned that and they keep letting Trump live in their heads
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 01:40:39 PM

It is nice to finally have someone that is willing to give the White Left a small dose of their own medicine. I will enjoy it while it lasts, because it is a once in a lifetime phenomenon. No one has ever had the balls to do it before, and they never will again. I will forever be grateful for his stand.
nor sure I agree with that

doesnt Trump have sons and daughters

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 08, 2020, 02:00:36 PM
heres the truth on Trump saying to vote twice


https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-vote-twice-north-carolina/

Ive seen no evidence that any action by Trump was taken to slow down the USPS
please feel free to share what you know details please
The controversy over and with the Postmaster General and his actions was discussed earlier on this thread, I believe.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 08, 2020, 02:03:47 PM
Trump did NOT suggest that people vote twice. He stated that you should fill out the ballot sent to you and send it in. Then on election day, go to the polling station to see if your vote was registered. It is was, fine. If not, then vote there and have the mailed in vote cancelled. If that state is not capable to doing this, then it shows how the state is not ready to deal with mail in voting.
Here's what Snopes says:

What's True
Trump told people that if they vote by mail, they should also go to polling places to check whether their mailed-in ballot had been tabulated (advice that election officials do not agree with), and if it hadn't: Vote in person.


What's False
Although Trump's advice would functionally result in some people attempting to cast two ballots, the stated goal was to ensure people's ballots get counted, not to elicit double voting.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 02:04:11 PM
The controversy over and with the Postmaster General and his actions was discussed earlier on this thread, I believe.
last I saw all the media hype on how Trump was keeping the USPS from being able to handle the anticipated vote by mail surge was debunked

so if you have any facts otherwise please share them

the USPS will probably have a challenge but not because of Trump
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 08, 2020, 02:06:44 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/AVbc1wm.png)



While suturing a cut on the hand of a 75 year old  Virginia farmer, the doctor struck up a conversation with the old man.


Eventually the topic got around to Biden and his possible role as our president.
The old farmer said, 'Well, ya know, Biden is a 'Post Turtle''.
Not being familiar with the term, the doctor asked him, what a 'post turtle' was.
The old rancher said, 'When you're driving down a country road and you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a 'post turtle'.

 
The old farmer saw the puzzled look on the doctor's face so he continued to explain.
"You know he didn't get up there by himself, he doesn't belong up there, he doesn't know what to do while he's up there, he's elevated beyond his ability to function, and you just wonder what kind of dumb ass put him up there to begin with."
Somebody's recycled that from the 2008 campaign.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 08, 2020, 02:07:31 PM
Trump was Trump before the election.

We have decades of history of him in the public eye before the 2016 election, and none of it is inconsistent with his behavior now.
I keep telling folks on FB this.  Trump being Trump is not news.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 02:10:18 PM
Somebody's recycled that from the 2008 campaign.
some things just get better
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 08, 2020, 02:14:50 PM
if you tell someone the same lie over and over pretty soon it becomes accepted as fact
thats the dem and the media approach
push back is necessary and without it you will be eaten alive by the left

does Trump push back too often or sometimes in the wrong way the answer is yes but its better to error on the over done side then to not push back enough
Why do you exempt Trump from this critique?  It's his bread and butter.  It was on display on inauguration day and for months afterward, as he continued to claim that he had a larger crowd on hand than Obama's largest-crowd-ever.  And he kept repeating it.  And it was a lie.  Just like his claims that Ted Cruz' father was part of a conspiracy to kill JFK.  Another lie he just kept repeating.  And now Cruz kisses his ass.  What kind of man kisses the ass of a guy who knowingly lies, claiming that that man's father was a conspiracy to assassinate the president?
So it's not just Pelosi and it's not just the Dems.  Because the Republicans who repeat Trump's lies--especially those who know that they are lies--are doing the same thing that you condemn the Democrats for doing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 02:30:33 PM
Why do you exempt Trump from this critique?  It's his bread and butter.  It was on display on inauguration day and for months afterward, as he continued to claim that he had a larger crowd on hand than Obama's largest-crowd-ever.  And he kept repeating it.  And it was a lie.  Just like his claims that Ted Cruz' father was part of a conspiracy to kill JFK.  Another lie he just kept repeating.  And now Cruz kisses his ass.  What kind of man kisses the ass of a guy who knowingly lies, claiming that that man's father was a conspiracy to assassinate the president?
So it's not just Pelosi and it's not just the Dems.  Because the Republicans who repeat Trump's lies--especially those who know that they are lies--are doing the same thing that you condemn the Democrats for doing.
Thats the best you can come up with on lies Trump has told?

Crowd size and Ted Cruz

come on CW thats weak
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 08, 2020, 03:00:06 PM
there are plenty

don't make him dig
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 08, 2020, 03:01:17 PM
A full list would crash Drew's server. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 03:05:38 PM
A full list would crash Drew's server.
a full list of Trump lies?

give me a list

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 08, 2020, 03:06:32 PM
Thats the best you can come up with on lies Trump has told?

Crowd size and Ted Cruz

come on CW thats weak
Stop trying to distract by criticizing the content and ignoring the point being made.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 03:07:20 PM
there are plenty

don't make him dig
there arent plenty

Im talking documented lies not just in someones opinion
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 08, 2020, 03:08:19 PM
He said that the car was tan, but the dealership lists it as sandstone!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 08, 2020, 03:08:54 PM
there arent plenty

Im talking documented lies not just in someones opinion
This is one of your scarier posts.  As if Trump's every spoken paragraph hasn't contained multiple, provable lies.  Honest to god, what planet do you call home?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 03:09:00 PM
Stop trying to distract by criticizing the content and ignoring the point being made. 
sorry OAM I guess Im taking issue with the point being made

everyone keeps talking about Trump lies well heres you chance give me some examples
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 03:09:53 PM
This is one of your scarier posts.  As if Trump's ever spoken paragraphs hasn't contained multiple, provable lies.  Honest to god, what planet do you call home?
well go ahead give me some examples OAM
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 08, 2020, 03:10:16 PM
It would be quicker to list his honest statements.  That list is much shorter.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 03:12:48 PM
It would be quicker to list his honest statements.  That list is much shorter.
get that crap outa here OAM come on your big mouth opened up and said Trump told lies what are they
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on September 08, 2020, 03:14:14 PM
Yeah, I get it but I can’t help but wonder if this just a response to Trump’s incivility. Biden has been in politics forever. Is there a history of him saying he’d like to kick his opponent’s ass?

Here you go, Biden threatening an Auto Worker in March

https://www.mrctv.org/videos/nbc-manipulates-video-cuts-around-biden-threatening-slap-man (https://www.mrctv.org/videos/nbc-manipulates-video-cuts-around-biden-threatening-slap-man)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 03:14:36 PM
he said if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor right?

ooops nope that was somebody else
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 08, 2020, 03:15:37 PM
I don't believe you're being genuine.  I'm not going to waste my time.  Either you're trolling or you're so far gone - arguing that Trump isn't a habitual liar - that there is no point.  


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 08, 2020, 03:16:30 PM
Here you go, Biden threatening an Auto Worker in March

https://www.mrctv.org/videos/nbc-manipulates-video-cuts-around-biden-threatening-slap-man (https://www.mrctv.org/videos/nbc-manipulates-video-cuts-around-biden-threatening-slap-man)
Q:  "is there a history...?"

Riffraft:  "here's one time it happened..."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 08, 2020, 03:16:56 PM
Yes, politicians not named Trump have always an unblemished record of unwavering honesty. 

My God, the TDS is entertaining to watch. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 03:17:13 PM
I don't believe you're being genuine.  I'm not going to waste my time.  Either you're trolling or you're so far gone - arguing that Trump isn't a habitual liar - that there is no point. 



just what I thought

crickets


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 08, 2020, 03:18:01 PM
just what I thought

crickets



I know this is some sort of demented victory for you, but you're in O.J. land.  Your reality is warped, friend.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 03:20:03 PM
Q:  "is there a history...?"

Riffraft:  "here's one time it happened..."
so one is ok as long as he doesnt do it again?

do you remember him saying he wants to take Trump behind the barn or garage or whatever
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 08, 2020, 03:22:24 PM
so one is ok as long as he doesnt do it again?

do you remember him saying he wants to take Trump behind the barn or garage or whatever

That was the example to cause someone to ask if there was a history or an isolated example. Riffraft posted the second. There are many more; he even angrily challenged a voter to a push up contest. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 03:22:36 PM
I know this is some sort of demented victory for you, but you're in O.J. land.  Your reality is warped, friend.
what is OJ land oh is that from the movie Vanilla Sky

ok if you say so

you need to go take your meds
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 08, 2020, 03:28:40 PM
320, here are some examples from just a week ago...

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/factchecking-trumps-fox-news-interview-2/

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 08, 2020, 03:35:33 PM
It is usually a pretty severe nitpick.

I remember one of the "lies" he told was about how all the cities with the highest crime rates were run by Democrats. So they "fact checked" him and found that only 98% of the cities with the highest crime rates were run by Democrats.



(https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/XQMWOCQIJFFR3N3CX6DKUBWOG4.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 08, 2020, 03:44:06 PM
Houston and Dallas have liberal mayors???

WTH?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 08, 2020, 03:45:22 PM
anyone arguing about the biggest liar between Trump and Biden is completely unreachable and gone
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 08, 2020, 03:50:12 PM
anyone arguing about the biggest liar between Trump and Biden is completely unreachable and gone


Yeah, but then they would have to come up with critiques that aren't rooted inn blatant hypocrisy. And we can't have that. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 03:52:32 PM
Houston and Dallas have liberal mayors???

WTH?
thats correct but Houston's mayor is leaning more right all the time however
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 08, 2020, 03:53:29 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/X44ZxKk.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 04:15:27 PM
[img width=500 height=328.993]https://i.imgur.com/X44ZxKk.jpg[/img]
talk about a scary thought
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 08, 2020, 04:24:38 PM
if you tell someone the same lie over and over pretty soon it becomes accepted as fact
thats the dem and the media approach
push back is necessary and without it you will be eaten alive by the left

does Trump push back too often or sometimes in the wrong way the answer is yes but its better to error on the over done side then to not push back enough


OK. 

So if the most powerful voice in news was spreading fibs about someone on the other side, it would be incumbent about them to push back, and if the did it in a shrill way, it would be highly justified? I just don't think a lot of folks on one side would see it. 

For the most part, it's just about making one's own base feel all good about itself. The left does it too. I helps about the same amount, which is very little. For the most part filling the need of an instant gratification society. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 08, 2020, 04:34:14 PM
one's own base should fell very shitty about the current situation

both base's

and nothing Biden or Trump can say should be any help, unless both promise to step aside
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 04:36:43 PM
OK.

So if the most powerful voice in news was spreading fibs about someone on the other side, it would be incumbent about them to push back, and if the did it in a shrill way, it would be highly justified? I just don't think a lot of folks on one side would see it.

For the most part, it's just about making one's own base feel all good about itself. The left does it too. I helps about the same amount, which is very little. For the most part filling the need of an instant gratification society.
Trumps base feels real good about itself

W rarely pushed back and by the time he left office his base just evaporated
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 04:42:48 PM
one's own base should fell very shitty about the current situation

both base's

and nothing Biden or Trump can say should be any help, unless both promise to step aside
see I dont really believe that

side dem: 
defund the police
let cities burn
take your guns away
do away with fracking
raise taxes
expand medicare to replace employer insurance
provide medical and college to illegal aliens

side republican:
doing the opposite of the above
strong military
America first

now which base do you want to be a part of
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 08, 2020, 04:43:09 PM
those in that base that are feeling good are a small group and are a bit too far right IMO.

I have more than a few friends that tirelessly praise Trump, but most folks voting against the liberal agenda are not feeling good about Trump
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 08, 2020, 04:44:50 PM
see I dont really believe that

side dem:
defund the police
let cities burn
take your guns away
do away with fracking
raise taxes
expand medicare to replace employer insurance
provide medical and college to illegal aliens

side republican:
doing the opposite of the above
strong military
America first

now which base do you want to be a part of
ok, you've described the far left dems and the far right reps


there's a huge middle ground

the silent majority
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 04:46:12 PM
ok, you've described the far left dems and the far right reps


there's a huge middle ground

the silent majority
this just in Fearless

Kamala Harris is just about as far left as you can get
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 04:47:53 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3VLqLLWxbQ
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 08, 2020, 04:49:46 PM
true, that doesn't mean that most folks that are registered dems support all of her views

just like many folks that identify as Reps, think Trump is an ass

yes, the two parties want it to come down to an either or.........

burn cities or clutch your guns and shoot looters, but most folks don't want any part of either of those activities
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 08, 2020, 04:56:19 PM
Trumps base feels real good about itself

W rarely pushed back and by the time he left office his base just evaporated
It does. And seemingly very few people feel good about America. Small wins I suppose. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 05:02:32 PM
It does. And seemingly very few people feel good about America. Small wins I suppose.
at least half do and youre right I dont feel beating Biden is a big win at all
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 08, 2020, 05:18:05 PM









Several Americans have been seen sneaking into Canada.  Canada's         

Prime Minister has made the decision to build a wall.

(https://i.imgur.com/T6cRvUG.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/ODNwcfl.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/j1yMOL1.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/uSDSkFy.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/gCYDyK4.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on September 08, 2020, 05:48:29 PM
Q:  "is there a history...?"

Riffraft:  "here's one time it happened..."


So an incident that happened in the past is not history.  I hope you don't teach history, since history is a study of things that happened in the past. 

And to clarify I didn't go looking for more incidents, someone said Biden's threat of violence was in response to Trump's incivility and there was no history, except there is and you seem to think that something that happened in the past is not history. 

Oh, and I also appreciate you putting things in quotes after my name to indicate that you were quoting me, except I didn't say or write it.  Once more your academic credentials are called into question. Not sure what grade you teach, but you do require your students to cite properly and not to attribute to someone something they didn't say.  Now if you wanted to indicate you believe that that quote summed up my position, you could do that in a manner that would be correct. That is if you learned how to summarize someone position from what you read rather than reading into it. It is know as exegesis vs eisegesis. I know you have master eisegesis. And yes I am being sarcastic.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 08, 2020, 05:53:08 PM
Biden has been "feisiy" at other times of course.


"You're a lying dog-faced pony soldier."
Search Results
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Dec 5, 2019 - The man eventually told Mr. Biden he would not be voting for him. ... to see the former vice president more aggressively defend himself and his ...
Party‎: ‎Democratic Party

 (https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-biden-gets-away-yelling-at-voters-benefit-from-it-2020-3)
Joe Biden gets away with yelling at voters, may even benefit ...
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Mar 10, 2020 - Democratic presidential candidate former Vice President Joe Biden speaks ... Biden has been known to lose his cool with voters occasionally during his ... Biden laying into the construction worker could end up being a bonus.

 (https://www.thecut.com/2019/12/joe-biden-angrily-challenges-voter-to-push-up-contest.html)
Joe Biden Angrily Challenges Voter to Push-Up Contest
 (https://www.thecut.com/2019/12/joe-biden-angrily-challenges-voter-to-push-up-contest.html)
 (https://www.thecut.com/2019/12/joe-biden-angrily-challenges-voter-to-push-up-contest.html)

Dec 5, 2019 - Joe Biden got into an extremely tense, aggressive confrontation with a ... When the man finally said he wouldn't be voting for him, Biden still ...

 (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/07/joe-biden-iowa-voter)
Joe Biden's old-guy machismo is a serious flaw – but also ...
 (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/07/joe-biden-iowa-voter)
 (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/07/joe-biden-iowa-voter)
 (https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk00lCX3KcqND_E2Y0EZgKBRDJZudHg%3A1599601908003&source=hp&ei=8_xXX9XAO-rK5gK185WQAg&q=joe+biden+being+aggressive+with+voters&oq=joe+biden+being+aggressive+with+voters&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzoECCMQJzoCCAA6BQgAELEDOggIABCxAxCDAToFCCEQoAE6BwghEAoQoAE6BQghEKsCOggIIRAWEB0QHlDXDFiiPGDkPWgAcAB4AIAB1AGIAdwWkgEGMzUuMi4xmAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpeg&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwiVhoe8xdrrAhVqpVkKHbV5BSIQ4dUDCAk&uact=5#)

  • (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:JDI4aWqJD60J:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/07/joe-biden-iowa-voter+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

Dec 7, 2019 - Biden was praised for his aggressive brawling with Paul Ryan during ... Joe Biden's old-guy machismo is a serious flaw – but also what voters ...

 (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2019/dec/06/you-think-i-thought-youd-vote-for-me-joe-biden-lashes-out-at-voter-video)
Joe Biden lashes out at voter: 'You think I thought you'd vote ...
 (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2019/dec/06/you-think-i-thought-youd-vote-for-me-joe-biden-lashes-out-at-voter-video)
 (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2019/dec/06/you-think-i-thought-youd-vote-for-me-joe-biden-lashes-out-at-voter-video)
 (https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk00lCX3KcqND_E2Y0EZgKBRDJZudHg%3A1599601908003&source=hp&ei=8_xXX9XAO-rK5gK185WQAg&q=joe+biden+being+aggressive+with+voters&oq=joe+biden+being+aggressive+with+voters&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzoECCMQJzoCCAA6BQgAELEDOggIABCxAxCDAToFCCEQoAE6BwghEAoQoAE6BQghEKsCOggIIRAWEB0QHlDXDFiiPGDkPWgAcAB4AIAB1AGIAdwWkgEGMzUuMi4xmAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpeg&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwiVhoe8xdrrAhVqpVkKHbV5BSIQ4dUDCAk&uact=5#)

  • (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:8Lt6Wklx-rsJ:https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2019/dec/06/you-think-i-thought-youd-vote-for-me-joe-biden-lashes-out-at-voter-video+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

Dec 6, 2019 - The man in the audience at a campaign event argued that Biden is too old to be president and pressed him on his son's business activities in ...

 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bccEJJS56-w)
Joe Biden tells Iowa voter: "You're a damn liar" - YouTube
 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bccEJJS56-w)
 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bccEJJS56-w)

Dec 5, 2019 - An Iowa vote confronted Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden on Thursday, leading the former Vice President to tell the voter "you're a ...



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 08, 2020, 06:06:37 PM
Okay, only a mere 100 recent examples. Statistical outliers at best.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 08, 2020, 06:13:04 PM
When Trump lashes out, he comes across as an arrogant douchebag bully.

When Biden lashes out, he comes off as a pathetic and awkward senile old grampa.

I'd like to take a moment to thank our two political parties for providing these candidates to the USA.  Almost literally, the giant douche and the turd sandwich from South Park.

(https://i.redd.it/zmk10ww5ajn41.jpg)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 08, 2020, 06:15:33 PM
Trump is easier for me to understand than is Biden.  Biden strikes me as creepy and potentially dangerous (not that Trump is not potentially dangerous in a way).

I've met narcissists who had been spoiled and egotistical and denigrating in my life.  I can't recall meeting anyone with a proclivity for weird stories as Biden is, though if I had, I would have avoided them after meeting them.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 08, 2020, 06:26:32 PM
Watching The Vow on HBO, about a modern cult. It's interesting to see how cults spring up around various people. Trump is certainly one, and it's interesting to see the almost worship he gets compared to the "what the hell" others see.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 08, 2020, 06:28:53 PM
Biden is certainly no cult leader

zero charisma 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 08, 2020, 06:31:26 PM
Biden is certainly no cult leader

zero charisma
I don't know about zero but he certainly ain't leading a cult.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 08, 2020, 06:35:18 PM
zero

just my opinion
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 08, 2020, 06:47:27 PM
I wondered if this is what the founders intended?

https://twitter.com/BLaw/status/1303439419911933960?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 08, 2020, 07:44:22 PM
Biden is certainly no cult leader

zero charisma

Obama had the adoring cult following. Still does. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 08, 2020, 07:46:55 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/X44ZxKk.jpg)
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p180x540/118694931_10217568736225392_5074582267039869823_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=ef_kEiy6_xgAX__hGjZ&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=1fe73d75ba4e0ba968b12c5a7093b60f&oe=5F7CDE27)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 07:54:12 PM
damn thats funny Fearless
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 08, 2020, 08:00:01 PM
almost everything political on FB is terrible

but, once in a while you see something terribly funny
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 08, 2020, 08:02:19 PM

So an incident that happened in the past is not history.  I hope you don't teach history, since history is a study of things that happened in the past.

And to clarify I didn't go looking for more incidents, someone said Biden's threat of violence was in response to Trump's incivility and there was no history, except there is and you seem to think that something that happened in the past is not history.

Oh, and I also appreciate you putting things in quotes after my name to indicate that you were quoting me, except I didn't say or write it.  Once more your academic credentials are called into question. Not sure what grade you teach, but you do require your students to cite properly and not to attribute to someone something they didn't say.  Now if you wanted to indicate you believe that that quote summed up my position, you could do that in a manner that would be correct. That is if you learned how to summarize someone position from what you read rather than reading into it. It is know as exegesis vs eisegesis. I know you have master eisegesis. And yes I am being sarcastic.
"a history" isn't the same as "history"......."     ", "                "...."                                 !!!!"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 08, 2020, 08:15:42 PM
Trumps base feels real good about itself

W rarely pushed back and by the time he left office his base just evaporated
That's because W understood that he was President of the United States rather than President of His Base.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 08, 2020, 08:21:41 PM
at least half do [feel good about America] and youre right I dont feel beating Biden is a big win at all
320:
You're saying that Trump's base feels good about America?
You sure can't tell it from Trump's campaign.  Or from what's happening outside the bubble.
You don't see to feel good about America.  You seem to hate at least half of it.  They're all Dems, Socialists, Marxists, Libs and/or America-haters.
As only about 29% of registered voters are registered Republicans, I'd say that you seem to hate 71% of it.
Seriously.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 08:25:09 PM
320:
You're saying that Trump's base feels good about America?
You sure can't tell it from Trump's campaign.  Or from what's happening outside the bubble.
You don't see to feel good about America.  You seem to hate at least half of it.  They're all Dems, Socialists, Marxists, Libs and/or America-haters.
As only about 29% of registered voters are registered Republicans, I'd say that you seem to hate 71% of it.
Seriously.
CW must we talk shop

we were having so much fun

Im not even gonna comment on your post cause its full of baby poop

now pass me another beer
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 08, 2020, 08:38:39 PM
So an incident that happened in the past is not history.  I hope you don't teach history, since history is a study of things that happened in the past.

And to clarify I didn't go looking for more incidents, someone said Biden's threat of violence was in response to Trump's incivility and there was no history, except there is and you seem to think that something that happened in the past is not history.

Oh, and I also appreciate you putting things in quotes after my name to indicate that you were quoting me, except I didn't say or write it.  Once more your academic credentials are called into question. Not sure what grade you teach, but you do require your students to cite properly and not to attribute to someone something they didn't say.  Now if you wanted to indicate you believe that that quote summed up my position, you could do that in a manner that would be correct. That is if you learned how to summarize someone position from what you read rather than reading into it. It is know as exegesis vs eisegesis. I know you have master eisegesis. And yes I am being sarcastic.
You were responding to OAM, but . . . .
I think that the "quotation" that OAM did falls under the category of satire.  I've seen that construction used by other posters on this board.
History is not incidents that happened in the past.  It is the study of those incidents.
It's sort of like the military's distinction between information and intelligence.  Information is just random stuff.  Intelligence is the product of analyzing information for its probable truth, it's significance, etc.  History is the analysis of what happened in the past using what sources we have for those events.  And you never have enough sources that are reliable enough, so you are always making a choice as to whether or how an event happened, and as to whether it is significant or not.
The casual term "a history" as in the question to which you responded just meant "does he do this often?"  Citing one example does not really prove that he does.
For example, "Does Joe Biden have a history of misstatements and/or embarrassing statements?"  The answer would be that, yes he does, and you could cite his plagiarized campaign biography from the '80s, his claims to have graduated at the top of his law school class, his statement about Barack Obama being "a clean negro who speaks articulately" (or words to that effect), him telling a guy he wanted to recognize to stand up when he was in a wheelchair, and on and on and on.  He's a gaffe machine.
Does he have a history of threatening to whip people's asses?  He's done it more than once, I'm pretty sure.
IMO, Biden is no great candidate.  He's flamed out in every national race he has been in and he may well flame out this one too.  He is sometimes called the wise old head in the Democratic Party, but he strikes me as the village idiot.  I thought that he was dumber than everybody's favorite whipping girl Sarah Palin in 2008, and that's a low bar to get under.
But he's not, IMO, nearly as awful as Donald J. Trump, who is our worst President since Andrew Johnson. if not our worst ever.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 08, 2020, 08:42:46 PM
CW must we talk shop

we were having so much fun

Im not even gonna comment on your post cause its full of baby poop

now pass me another beer
You were having so much fun?
So, are you, as OAM suggested, just trolling for the fun of it?
It would make sense if that were the case.  More sense than you being serious.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 08, 2020, 09:06:03 PM
You were having so much fun?
So, are you, as OAM suggested, just trolling for the fun of it?
It would make sense if that were the case.  More sense than you being serious.
Im in a very good and here you come with those negative waves



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncbEucjsNFU
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 08, 2020, 09:12:58 PM
When Trump lashes out, he comes across as an arrogant douchebag bully.

When Biden lashes out, he comes off as a pathetic and awkward senile old grampa.

I'd like to take a moment to thank our two political parties for providing these candidates to the USA.  Almost literally, the giant douche and the turd sandwich from South Park.

(https://i.redd.it/zmk10ww5ajn41.jpg)


Post of the month!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 08, 2020, 09:25:05 PM
Trump definitely has diarrhea of the mouth quite often.  


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 08, 2020, 09:51:20 PM
and on his twitter feed
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 09, 2020, 06:51:51 AM
The nation seems quite "persistent" and durable in spite of "all of this".  I've enjoyed reading more of our history and am reminded how often in the past the country faced apparently insuperable obstacles and found compromise (usually) and survival.  I do fear the statesmen of the past are not much in evidence today.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 09, 2020, 08:28:51 AM
Im in a very good and here you come with those negative waves



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncbEucjsNFU
That is just about my all time favorite movie. Donald Sutherland should have received an Oscar for his performance in that one. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 09, 2020, 08:44:35 AM
That movie is also one of my favorites, the cast was remarkable.  Sutherland nailed his character.  Rickles was great.  Carrol O'Conner.

I got the game on here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 09, 2020, 09:03:44 AM
Ya CD and I go back/forth with that.The line up in the movie weren't really stars until a few yrs later.The movie was made before Carrol O'Connor was in "All in the Family" or Telly Savalas was in "Kojack" or Don Rickles was on the "Dean Martin Roasts".Even before Eastwood was in the "Dirty Harry" movies but he had done the "Spaghetti Westerns" however
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 09, 2020, 09:08:56 AM
IMO, Biden is no great candidate.  
Would you really trust him to drive the grand kids to School or anywhere else over 2 miles?Neither is Trump a good candidate
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 09, 2020, 09:26:45 AM
 Research indicates a hummingbird can travel as much as 23 miles in one day. However those that make the 500 mile flight from Florida to the Yucatan do it in 18-22 hours non-stop, depending on wind conditions.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 09, 2020, 10:23:39 AM
Ya CD and I go back/forth with that.The line up in the movie weren't really stars until a few yrs later.The movie was made before Carrol O'Connor was in "All in the Family" or Telly Savalas was in "Kojack" or Don Rickles was on the "Dean Martin Roasts".Even before Eastwood was in the "Dirty Harry" movies but he had done the "Spaghetti Westerns" however
I didn't realize that this movie came out the year before All in the Family started. But yeah, that was a great cast. Along with Sutherland, Telly Savalas and Don Rickles characters were noteworthy. Whenever this movie is aired, I make a point to try to watch it again and introduce it to my kids. However, they don't seem to get it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 09, 2020, 10:28:01 AM
I didn't realize that this movie came out the year before All in the Family started. But yeah, that was a great cast. Along with Sutherland, Telly Savalas and Don Rickles characters were noteworthy. Whenever this movie is aired, I make a point to try to watch it again and introduce it to my kids. However, they don't seem to get it.
I like the scene where an officer is shipping a sail boat home
talk about spoils of war
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on September 09, 2020, 10:35:45 AM
It always feels weird when people go on and on about Nancy Pelosi, who has always been kind of a middle of the road milquetoast kind of Speaker.
this could not be further from the truth. she is arguably the most corrupt politician in modern history, and that's saying a f***ing lot.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on September 09, 2020, 10:39:58 AM
In all honesty, I'm not convinced there was collusion.

I think Russia wanted Trump to win.

I think Trump benefited from Russia's interference.

I think Trump's been very deferential to Russian interests since being elected... Even to the point where I've started looking at his behavior and asking "what would Russia want" and that seems to be the most likely Trump decision.

I'm just not sure Trump's campaign actively colluded with Russia to win. More that they were fellow travelers working towards the same goal.
This is inaccurate. By a lot.

IF Trump was so deferential to Russian interests he wouldn't have sent lethal arms to Ukraine. Something even that sniveling corrupt f***face Obama refused to do. IF Trump was so deferential to Russian interests, he wouldn't have allowed NATO to keep expanding closer to closer to Russia's borders. IF Trumpy was so deferential to Russian interests, he wouldn't have expelled more Russian diplomats from US soil than Obama. IF Trump was so deferential to Russian interests, he wouldn't have imposed more (and tougher) sanctions on Russian businessmen & companies than Obama did.

Look at actions. Not words. They speak louder.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 09, 2020, 10:45:17 AM

Ya CD and I go back/forth with that.The line up in the movie weren't really stars until a few yrs later.The movie was made before Carrol O'Connor was in "All in the Family" or Telly Savalas was in "Kojack" or Don Rickles was on the "Dean Martin Roasts".Even before Eastwood was in the "Dirty Harry" movies but he had done the "Spaghetti Westerns" however
geez, now I gotta look up this movie and see if I can watch it some cold dark winter night coming up in a few months
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on September 09, 2020, 10:46:04 AM
A full list would crash Drew's server.
yeah, but would it crash Hillary's server in her bathroom?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 09, 2020, 10:47:39 AM
this could not be further from the truth. she is arguably the most corrupt politician in modern history, and that's saying a f***ing lot.
Please...she's not even the most corrupt politician right now. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 09, 2020, 10:49:07 AM
well, arguing about levels of corruption in politicians is similar to arguing over the bigger liar between Biden and Trump

worthless argument 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on September 09, 2020, 10:51:29 AM
anyone arguing about the biggest liar between Trump and Biden is completely unreachable and gone
yeah, kind of wild. As if Biden is some arbiter or truth. This is the same f**k that had to drop out of a presidential election 34 years ago because he got caught lying on camera about how he was sooooo much smarter than a reporter who was asking him a question- and how he went to college on a full scholarship, had 3 degrees, and was the valedictorian of his class. Whoops- turns out that was all bullshit.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on September 09, 2020, 10:53:13 AM
well, arguing about levels of corruption in politicians is similar to arguing over the bigger liar between Biden and Trump

worthless argument
true. lol.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on September 09, 2020, 10:56:20 AM
Please...she's not even the most corrupt politician right now.
might wanna do some more research there pal. That worthless old dried up shrivel c*nt is as corrupt as they come. if she ain't #1, she's god damn close. just look into the favors she did for the credit card industry and the stock deal she got out of it. who the hell comes from a politics and MAKES hundreds of millions while in office? Like Truman said- show me a man that gets rich by being a politician and I'll show you a crook. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 09, 2020, 10:56:28 AM
Would you really trust him to drive the grand kids to School or anywhere else over 2 miles?Neither is Trump a good candidate
Would you trust Trump to walk down a ramp or to drink a bottle of water one-handed?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 09, 2020, 10:56:59 AM
The nation seems quite "persistent" and durable in spite of "all of this".  I've enjoyed reading more of our history and am reminded how often in the past the country faced apparently insuperable obstacles and found compromise (usually) and survival.  I do fear the statesmen of the past are not much in evidence today.
Yeah, but we're not one nation any more. The whole "constructed reality" thing I've been on about.

I don't see a solution for that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 09, 2020, 10:57:51 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/1Bs63o1.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on September 09, 2020, 11:03:49 AM
Obama had the adoring cult following. Still does.
yeah it's mind-boggling actually. if people actually peeled behind the veneer and looked at the actions and records of the scoundrel they'd want him in jail.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 09, 2020, 11:04:03 AM
Biden said the other day that Trump if he loses will be the first President to leave office with fewer folks employed then when he started

well hello thats like complaining right after Pearl Harbour that the US doesnt have enough battleships
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 09, 2020, 11:08:37 AM
Biden said the other day that Trump if he loses will be the first President to leave office with fewer folks employed then when he started

well hello thats like complaining right after Pearl Harbour that the US doesnt have enough battleships
Yeah that's pretty weak sauce right there.

But, it's what politicians do.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 09, 2020, 11:34:12 AM
if fewer folks were employed by the government, that would be a very good thing
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 09, 2020, 11:38:23 AM
Biden said the other day that Trump if he loses will be the first President to leave office with fewer folks employed then when he started

well hello thats like complaining right after Pearl Harbour that the US doesnt have enough battleships
might be another Biden lie.  Get the fact checkers working....

what about Woodrow Wilson and the Spanish Flu?
or Herbert Hoover in the Great Depression?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 09, 2020, 11:54:15 AM
This is not good.


https://nypost.com/2020/09/09/assistant-principal-put-on-leave-for-f-k-the-police-video-from-rochester-protests/ (https://nypost.com/2020/09/09/assistant-principal-put-on-leave-for-f-k-the-police-video-from-rochester-protests/)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 09, 2020, 11:59:13 AM
“Mr. Steven Lysenko is a tenured administrator with due process rights. He has been placed on administrative leave pending an investigation,” officials said in a statement.

The investigation would be held with the “utmost confidentiality” because he is tenured, the local Board of Education’s president, Kevin Hutton, said Tuesday.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 09, 2020, 12:04:23 PM
Yet another example of violating someone's first amendment rights. Schools are really known for that these days
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 09, 2020, 12:26:55 PM
geez, now I gotta look up this movie and see if I can watch it some cold dark winter night coming up in a few months
WHAT? You have not seen Kelly's Hero's? Turn in your man card. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 09, 2020, 12:33:29 PM
Yet another example of violating someone's first amendment rights. Schools are really known for that these days
Some school districts, if not all, require an administrator and teachers, to adhere to a higher standard. It is generally in their contract. They have a responsibility to uphold standards that many other people do not. After all, would you want someone this deranged in charge of your kids?

This has nothing to do with 1st Amendment rights. He is not under arrest or being punished by any statues for his comments. However, the first amendment does not protect you against your employer. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 09, 2020, 12:36:35 PM
Donald Trump nominated for Nobel Peace Prize
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 09, 2020, 12:37:10 PM
Some school districts, if not all, require an administrator and teachers, to adhere to a higher standard. It is generally in their contract. They have a responsibility to uphold standards that many other people do not. After all, would you want someone this deranged in charge of your kids?

This has nothing to do with 1st Amendment rights. He is not under arrest or being punished by any statues for his comments. However, the first amendment does not protect you against your employer.
It can if your employer is the government
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 09, 2020, 12:39:13 PM
Donald Trump nominated for Nobel Peace Prize
If Obama can win one for breathing, then Trump deserves to be considered for the work he and his administration are doing in the Middle East.  Also, the fact that he is pulling troops out of Iraq, Afghanistan, Germany and other places. He is doing as much as anyone to get the US military out of conflicts. Seems to be that should be considered. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 09, 2020, 12:39:53 PM
Further, the idea that the government should be able to kill a person, then pepper spray people protesting that, and we should just lay down and take it is the very definition of POA
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 09, 2020, 12:42:20 PM
It can if your employer is the government
Again, behavior is generally addressed in contracts that school employees agree to. My guess is that he violated his contract. 

I was on our local school board for a few years. There were a few discussions with teachers and other employees engaging in conduct that was in violation of their contract in regards to their behavior and its negative affect on the schools image. And yes, this was a public school. You may not agree with it, but it was never challenged in court and the union agreed to the contract.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 09, 2020, 12:47:17 PM
Further, the idea that the government should be able to kill a person, then pepper spray people protesting that, and we should just lay down and take it is the very definition of POA
Are there any examples of peaceful protesters being pepper sprayed? All I've seen are examples that also involve violence and/or rioting. 

The violence and rioting are taking away from the very important message/movement, by the way.

The black community leaders here in Kenosha have asked repeatedly that these young white rioting kids stay out of their neighborhoods.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 09, 2020, 12:49:32 PM
Further, the idea that the government should be able to kill a person, then pepper spray people protesting that, and we should just lay down and take it is the very definition of POA
Wow, talk about taking things COMPLETELY out of context. 

When you live in a civil society, there are certain rules put in place that you are expected to live by. When you don't, society employs law enforcement to deal with you.

In the cases you allude too, said individuals were reported to have violated the rules that society agreed to live within. In so doing, they grabbed the attention of law enforcement that is charged with enforcing those laws. 

When the person reportedly breaking those laws is confronted by LEO's, they have a choice. Comply with the LEO's instructions or decide to fight them. Being as in this country, we allow LEO's to carry lethal force, it is not a smart move by the suspect, to decide to fight. Even then, in almost all cases, the LEO's attempted to subdue the suspect using non-lethal force. However, when the suspect gained the upper hand and put the LEO's life in danger, the LEO resorted to lethal force. 

The question here is why do ignore the responsibility of the suspect to follow the law and comply with the LEO's instructions? 

As to the allegation of pepper spray, it was not used until the "protesters" turned violent and disregarded law orders by LEO's. You know, like burning down the neighborhood after looting it.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 09, 2020, 12:49:34 PM
Are there any examples of peaceful protesters being pepper sprayed? All I've seen are examples that also involve violence and/or rioting.

The violence and rioting are taking away from the very important message/movement, by the way.

The black community leaders here in Kenosha have asked repeatedly that these young white rioting kids stay out of their neighborhoods.
That was what his colorful message was about
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 09, 2020, 12:55:15 PM
That was what his colorful message was about
MS why do you always want to be on the wrong side of a debate

anybody with common sense would agree that principal needed to be sacked

would you want him over your kids
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 09, 2020, 12:57:11 PM
Donald Trump nominated for Nobel Peace Prize
oh Lord now we have to hear all the gnashing of teeth and screaming from the left

only Obama is worthy enough
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 09, 2020, 01:02:06 PM
MS why do you always want to be on the wrong side of a debate

anybody with common sense would agree that principal needed to be sacked

would you want him over your kids
What the heck? Do I seem like someone who wants my kids to learn to never question anything?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on September 09, 2020, 01:02:28 PM
Are there any examples of peaceful protesters being pepper sprayed? All I've seen are examples that also involve violence and/or rioting.
https://youtu.be/85Ut0jNIIfY

This was filmed up at 5th Street and Hennepin Avenue downtown. Nothing on that end of town was put to the torch.

https://youtu.be/LozQg0oX-Gw

MPD shot paintballs at people that were out on their own porch. This was in the Wedge neighborhood, just north of Lake Street.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 09, 2020, 01:02:43 PM
If Obama can win one for breathing, then Trump deserves to be considered for the work he and his administration are doing in the Middle East.  Also, the fact that he is pulling troops out of Iraq, Afghanistan, Germany and other places. He is doing as much as anyone to get the US military out of conflicts. Seems to be that should be considered.
As usual, what Trump may have claimed to be doing and what is actually happening are not identical...

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/factchecking-trumps-fox-news-interview-2/


Quote
But the president hasn’t made much headway in reducing the number of U.S. troops in conflict zones, or overseas in general.
According to the Pentagon’s Defense Manpower Data Center (https://www.dmdc.osd.mil/appj/dwp/dwp_reports.jsp), there were about 15,000 troops total in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria on Dec. 31, 2016, near the end of the Obama presidency (9,294 in Afghanistan, 5,540 in Iraq and 204 in Syria). A spokesman for the Department of Defense told us, “U.S. force levels in Afghanistan currently remain in the mid-8,000s with the goal to reduce that number to less than 5,000 by the end of November. U.S. forces in Iraq number approximately 5,200 and in Syria number approximately 500.” That puts the current levels at about 14,200, or about 5% lower than when Obama left office.
Trump said recently (https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/08/04/trump-suggests-us-troop-levels-in-afghanistan-could-be-cut-in-half-by-election-day/) that he expects the number of troops in Afghanistan to be cut to under 5,000 by November, but that hasn’t happened yet.
The total number of overseas troops was about 199,000 in the last month of the Obama administration, according to the Defense Manpower Data Center. The most recently available figures from the DMDC in June put the number at 171,025. But that figure comes with a large asterisk. Beginning in December 2017, the Trump administration stopped reporting (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/how-many-troops-are-serving-america-s-legacy-wars-we-n1079531) the troop levels in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria in its DMDC data for overseas troop levels. A Pentagon spokesperson told us those figures are withheld for “security purposes.”
But as we said, DoD provided us approximate figures for those three countries. Adding the approximated figures to the reported figure for the remaining overseas troop levels, the total comes to about 185,000. That’s about a 7% decrease from the final Obama levels.
Citing Pentagon leaders, the Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-is-determined-to-bring-home-us-military-forces-from-somewhere/2020/07/20/c2664fb8-c851-11ea-b037-f9711f89ee46_story.html) reported in late July that Trump was making a concerted push to significantly reduce overseas troop levels by Election Day in November. But despite the president’s efforts to fulfill his 2016 campaign promise to significantly reduce the number of U.S. troops serving overseas, the article notes, “Trump has been stymied at virtually every turn” as members of his administration and military leaders “have talked Trump out of specific withdrawals or employed delaying tactics.”
Trump recently approved (https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/30/politics/pentagon-trump-troops-germany/index.html) plans to reduce the number of troops in Germany by 9,500 (from about 34,500), but not all of them will be coming home. According to Joseph Parent (https://politicalscience.nd.edu/people/joseph-m-parent/), a professor of international relations at the University of Notre Dame, roughly half of them are being redeployed within Europe, and the other half would return to the U.S.  — “but that has not yet been approved.”
While Trump has cut overseas troop levels a bit, and promises more by November, by any measure, it is a stretch to claim, as Trump did, that he is bringing “most of the troops home.”
So Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria are almost identical levels to the end of the Obama admin.

Overall overseas is down 7%. 

Of the ones being pulled out of that dangerous war-torn nation you mentioned [Germany], half would simply be redeployed within Europe. 

It sounds of course like he's trying to make a big election push to pull down numbers... He's pulling out all the stops.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 09, 2020, 01:02:52 PM
oh Lord now we have to hear all the gnashing of teeth and screaming from the left

only Obama is worthy enough
I just left that here to stir the pot
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 09, 2020, 01:04:23 PM

This was filmed up at 5th Street and Hennepin Avenue downtown. Nothing on that end of town was put to the torch.



MPD shot paintballs at people that were out on their own porch. This was in the Wedge neighborhood, just north of Lake Street.
come on, Minneapolis cops are known racists and very aggressive
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 09, 2020, 01:09:22 PM

Again, behavior is generally addressed in contracts that school employees agree to. My guess is that he violated his contract.

I was on our local school board for a few years. There were a few discussions with teachers and other employees engaging in conduct that was in violation of their contract in regards to their behavior and its negative affect on the schools image. And yes, this was a public school. You may not agree with it, but it was never challenged in court and the union agreed to the contract.
The behavior in this case would be what? Cursing in public? Cursing about other government employees?

If memory serves, there's a lot of protections when it comes to public employees making statements on political issues. Usually the way around that is if it makes it difficult to actually do their job. Perhaps saying such things does that, though it seems a tad suspect.

This is a good breakdown of it. https://www.popehat.com/2018/04/18/lawsplainer-can-a-state-university-fire-a-professor-for-being-an-ass-on-twitter/
 (https://www.popehat.com/2018/04/18/lawsplainer-can-a-state-university-fire-a-professor-for-being-an-ass-on-twitter/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 09, 2020, 01:12:50 PM
The behavior in this case would be what? Cursing in public? Cursing about other government employees?

If memory serves, there's a lot of protections when it comes to public employees making statements on political issues. Usually the way around that is if it makes it difficult to actually do their job. Perhaps saying such things does that, though it seems a tad suspect.

This is a good breakdown of it. https://www.popehat.com/2018/04/18/lawsplainer-can-a-state-university-fire-a-professor-for-being-an-ass-on-twitter/
 (https://www.popehat.com/2018/04/18/lawsplainer-can-a-state-university-fire-a-professor-for-being-an-ass-on-twitter/)
It depends upon the standards of conduct in the contract that was signed. F everyone that he disagrees with may be in violation of his contract. But again, I can only speculate. I can say that this would have gotten him a disciplinary hearing at our school. While I can't speak for the other board members at the time, he would have had to come up with a pretty good defense to keep his job as far as I would have been concerned.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 09, 2020, 01:13:05 PM
The behavior in this case would be what? Cursing in public? Cursing about other government employees?

If memory serves, there's a lot of protections when it comes to public employees making statements on political issues. Usually the way around that is if it makes it difficult to actually do their job. Perhaps saying such things does that, though it seems a tad suspect.

This is a good breakdown of it. https://www.popehat.com/2018/04/18/lawsplainer-can-a-state-university-fire-a-professor-for-being-an-ass-on-twitter/
 (https://www.popehat.com/2018/04/18/lawsplainer-can-a-state-university-fire-a-professor-for-being-an-ass-on-twitter/)
it all depends on what is in his contract
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 09, 2020, 01:16:47 PM
As usual, what Trump may have claimed to be doing and what is actually happening are not identical...

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/factchecking-trumps-fox-news-interview-2/

So Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria are almost identical levels to the end of the Obama admin.

Overall overseas is down 7%.

Of the ones being pulled out of that dangerous war-torn nation you mentioned [Germany], half would simply be redeployed within Europe.

It sounds of course like he's trying to make a big election push to pull down numbers... He's pulling out all the stops.

From the article you posted:

Quote
Citing Pentagon leaders, the Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-is-determined-to-bring-home-us-military-forces-from-somewhere/2020/07/20/c2664fb8-c851-11ea-b037-f9711f89ee46_story.html) reported in late July that Trump was making a concerted push to significantly reduce overseas troop levels by Election Day in November. But despite the president’s efforts to fulfill his 2016 campaign promise to significantly reduce the number of U.S. troops serving overseas, the article notes, “Trump has been stymied at virtually every turn” as members of his administration and military leaders “have talked Trump out of specific withdrawals or employed delaying tactics.”

Ok, he was not able to get it done, but he appears to be trying to get troops back home. That would be better than sending more troops in, don't you think?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 09, 2020, 01:19:29 PM

When you live in a civil society, there are certain rules put in place that you are expected to live by. When you don't, society employs law enforcement to deal with you.

In the cases you allude too, said individuals were reported to have violated the rules that society agreed to live within. In so doing, they grabbed the attention of law enforcement that is charged with enforcing those laws.

When the person reportedly breaking those laws is confronted by LEO's, they have a choice. Comply with the LEO's instructions or decide to fight them. Being as in this country, we allow LEO's to carry lethal force, it is not a smart move by the suspect, to decide to fight. Even then, in almost all cases, the LEO's attempted to subdue the suspect using non-lethal force. However, when the suspect gained the upper hand and put the LEO's life in danger, the LEO resorted to lethal force.

The question here is why do ignore the responsibility of the suspect to follow the law and comply with the LEO's instructions?

As to the allegation of pepper spray, it was not used until the "protesters" turned violent and disregarded law orders by LEO's. You know, like burning down the neighborhood after looting it. 
From this we can read that often the government is in strong position to curtail individual rights. Or at the very least, when any manner of law is broken, those rights are too a degree forfeit. And once those rights are to some degree or another forfeit, the government, by means of if its employees is in the right should it take your life. 

You have asked why one might ignore the responsibility of a suspect to kowtow to to the government, and it speaks to a certain outlook. It is the citizen responsible to the government employee. The government employee is to many degrees shielded from responsibility, certianly to the citizen. 

Now, at times the government must step on our rights, as you have said. It is not a black or white thing. But is is interesting for sure. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 09, 2020, 01:25:01 PM
It depends upon the standards of conduct in the contract that was signed. F everyone that he disagrees with may be in violation of his contract. But again, I can only speculate. I can say that this would have gotten him a disciplinary hearing at our school. While I can't speak for the other board members at the time, he would have had to come up with a pretty good defense to keep his job as far as I would have been concerned. 
That seems unlikely and potentially unenforceable. 

If my government job can force me to not say uncouth things about government employees that doesn't pretty directly impact my job, what's to say they can't work in the mayor, or the governor?

Now it might've landed a disciplinary hearing (there's no penalty for infringing on rights unless it's forced), and most people back off because the secret is fighting because something is legal is more often than not more of a hassle than just being quiet. Most people aren't going to spend to go to the mattresses for their rights, and thus their government employers can step on some of them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 09, 2020, 01:25:21 PM
https://youtu.be/85Ut0jNIIfY

This was filmed up at 5th Street and Hennepin Avenue downtown. Nothing on that end of town was put to the torch.

https://youtu.be/LozQg0oX-Gw

MPD shot paintballs at people that were out on their own porch. This was in the Wedge neighborhood, just north of Lake Street.
The White liberals on the porch in the second video were thoroughly warned. Asked to get in their house multiple times, they didn't. Then they had the paint guns pointed at them. They still wouldn't budge. Then they shot one or two paint balls, and they finally got the point and went inside. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 09, 2020, 01:28:28 PM
From the article you posted:

Ok, he was not able to get it done, but he appears to be trying to get troops back home. That would be better than sending more troops in, don't you think?
No argument there. I'll give him credit for that. 

Of course, as commander in chief, it's one of the few areas where he should be able to overrule his underlings who 'talked him out of it'. 

But one area that he has been pretty consistent as far as I can tell is that his public statements have wanted to bring more home.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 09, 2020, 01:31:50 PM
The White liberals on the porch in the second video were thoroughly warned. Asked to get in their house multiple times, they didn't. Then they had the paint guns pointed at them. They still wouldn't budge. Then they shot one or two paint balls, and they finally got the point and went inside.
At what point were they violent, again?

Now, they didn't do what the cops asked. Partly that's because it's called "protest". Peaceful civil disobedience is common at a protest. 

So who escalated this to violence? The peaceful protestors, or the cops?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 09, 2020, 01:32:29 PM
The White liberals on the porch in the second video were thoroughly warned. Asked to get in their house multiple times, they didn't. Then they had the paint guns pointed at them. They still wouldn't budge. Then they shot one or two paint balls, and they finally got the point and went inside.
The government can tell me when I can sit on my porch on my property? If I'm doing nothing but watching what's happening on my street? Interesting.

Oh, and when someone doesn't respond, the government has the right to do low-end damage to the house? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 09, 2020, 01:33:34 PM
It's a day that ends in Y. Let's see how the White House is doing...

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/09/09/politics/bob-woodward-rage-book-trump-coronavirus/index.html?__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on September 09, 2020, 01:34:15 PM
You were responding to OAM, but . . . .
I think that the "quotation" that OAM did falls under the category of satire.  I've seen that construction used by other posters on this board.
History is not incidents that happened in the past.  It is the study of those incidents.
It's sort of like the military's distinction between information and intelligence.  Information is just random stuff.  Intelligence is the product of analyzing information for its probable truth, it's significance, etc.  History is the analysis of what happened in the past using what sources we have for those events.  And you never have enough sources that are reliable enough, so you are always making a choice as to whether or how an event happened, and as to whether it is significant or not.
The casual term "a history" as in the question to which you responded just meant "does he do this often?"  Citing one example does not really prove that he does.
For example, "Does Joe Biden have a history of misstatements and/or embarrassing statements?"  The answer would be that, yes he does, and you could cite his plagiarized campaign biography from the '80s, his claims to have graduated at the top of his law school class, his statement about Barack Obama being "a clean negro who speaks articulately" (or words to that effect), him telling a guy he wanted to recognize to stand up when he was in a wheelchair, and on and on and on.  He's a gaffe machine.
Does he have a history of threatening to whip people's asses?  He's done it more than once, I'm pretty sure.
IMO, Biden is no great candidate.  He's flamed out in every national race he has been in and he may well flame out this one too.  He is sometimes called the wise old head in the Democratic Party, but he strikes me as the village idiot.  I thought that he was dumber than everybody's favorite whipping girl Sarah Palin in 2008, and that's a low bar to get under.
But he's not, IMO, nearly as awful as Donald J. Trump, who is our worst President since Andrew Johnson. if not our worst ever.
So would two incident constitute "a history", since I responding to one incident with another incident?

Personally I wasn't interested in writing a dissertation on what constitutes the study of history. I was responding, in kind, to the type of response I received. If you want to defend the way OAM responded to my post and how he generally responses to people he doesn't agree with feel free.

And I think that CincyDawg did a better job displaying that there were more than 2 incidents. 

And just so everyone knows, I have not voted for a Democrat or Republican for President since 1988. And there is a good chance I won't again in this election, though I must confess the unreasonable over the top Trump haters are causing me to reconsider and actually vote for him.  Overall, other than his tweets, his constant hyperbole and in general the way he communicates, I think he has done a good job.  Moving out of all these foreign entanglements, reducing so many regulations and I could go on. Personally I thought his raising tariffs was a mistake, I am a free-trader, but it seem to have work. That said, he hasn't done enough to shrink the government, it hasn't done enough to reduce spending and cutting government programs that need to go away. He has a tendency to want to centralized power rather than decentralize.  All things I think need to be done, but no Republican or Democrat on the national level have done it or has the will to do it, which is why I don't vote for them. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 09, 2020, 01:42:50 PM
At what point were they violent, again?

Now, they didn't do what the cops asked. Partly that's because it's called "protest". Peaceful civil disobedience is common at a protest.

So who escalated this to violence? The peaceful protestors, or the cops?
They weren't protestors.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 09, 2020, 01:47:10 PM
It's a day that ends in Y. Let's see how the White House id's doing...

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/09/09/politics/bob-woodward-rage-book-trump-coronavirus/index.html?__twitter_impression=true
Woodward what a hack

He know absolutely nothing about anything but writes a book as if hes an expert

only in America
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 09, 2020, 01:53:09 PM
They weren't protestors.
Okay, so non-violent non-protestors deserve to get pepper sprayed (or in this case shot at with pepper paintballs)?

And you're using the case of non-violent non-protestors on their own property harming no one as your argument to... defend the cops from wrongdoing? 

Based on what is discussed, I can't even be sure that it would have been legal for the cops in this case to arrest the protestors. I'm trying to find a link to the official curfew order, but the little I've seen on Google suggests that people could not be out "in public". Being on your own porch on your own property does not meet the definition of "in public".  

So the cop had no legal standing to demand that they go inside anyway. Which brings us to the endpoint: non-violent non-protestors on their own property being shot at with pepper paintballs for refusing to comply with an unlawful order that they had no legal obligation to heed. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 09, 2020, 01:56:56 PM
If you're talking about the video I saw, it wasn't police, it was an NG unit.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 09, 2020, 01:58:41 PM
Woodward what a hack

He know absolutely nothing about anything but writes a book as if hes an expert

only in America
Yeah, but as someone who asked us to give you an example of the President's lies...

This info in the article [which I understand was a recorded interview and that the tape is available] points to the President privately admitting to Bob Woodward in February that this virus was tricky, passed easily "you just breath the air and that's how it's passed", and very deadly "It's also more deadly than even your strenuous flu". 

And yet he spent all of February and most of March downplaying it, and then spent most of the next several months aggressively and constantly pushing for reopenings when he knew all along that it's extremely contagious and much more deadly than the flu. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 09, 2020, 02:02:52 PM
Several of the audio files are available to listen to right now. Trump absolutely admitted in February that this was much more dangerous than the flu, and he said in March that he was intentionally downplaying it--and it's fair to point out, he said he was downplaying it to avoid a panic.

But does that information change anyone's mind about the guy? I doubt it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 09, 2020, 02:04:10 PM
If you're talking about the video I saw, it wasn't police, it was an NG unit.
Thanks for the clarification... 

Still not justified, but I apologize if I was blaming the MPD for an illegal action when I should be blaming NG for an illegal action. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 09, 2020, 02:05:46 PM
Yeah, but as someone who asked us to give you an example of the President's lies...

This info in the article [which I understand was a recorded interview and that the tape is available] points to the President privately admitting to Bob Woodward in February that this virus was tricky, passed easily "you just breath the air and that's how it's passed", and very deadly "It's also more deadly than even your strenuous flu".

And yet he spent all of February and most of March downplaying it, and then spent most of the next several months aggressively and constantly pushing for reopenings when he knew all along that it's extremely contagious and much more deadly than the flu.
Im not sure this qualifies but what the heck I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and guess what only the bleeding heart liberals care no one else really cares 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 09, 2020, 02:06:25 PM
The government can tell me when I can sit on my porch on my property? If I'm doing nothing but watching what's happening on my street? Interesting.

Oh, and when someone doesn't respond, the government has the right to do low-end damage to the house?
And if you protest, you are the bad guy. This is the "shut up and take it" approach to government.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 09, 2020, 02:07:46 PM
Several of the audio files are available to listen to right now. Trump absolutely admitted in February that this was much more dangerous than the flu, and he said in March that he was intentionally downplaying it--and it's fair to point out, he said he was downplaying it to avoid a panic.

But does that information change anyone's mind about the guy? I doubt it.
my point exactly

this is a straw man being built cause this is all they got
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 09, 2020, 02:08:23 PM
Thanks for the clarification...

Still not justified, but I apologize if I was blaming the MPD for an illegal action when I should be blaming NG for an illegal action.
I'd have to understand their orders.  The NG is not "well trained" in urban riot control, they can get out of hand as a result.  The noncomms may have been ordered to ensure everyone goes inside, and they took that literally.  I thought it was bizarre.  Nothing seemed to come of it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 09, 2020, 02:12:04 PM
Im not sure this qualifies but what the heck I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and guess what only the bleeding heart liberals care no one else really cares
my point exactly

this is a straw man being built cause this is all they got
Again, the Ukraine thing.

We went from "nothing happened it's just fake news" to "yeah something happened and it was a crime and it's an impeachable crime but nobody wants to call witnesses in the Senate because Republicans have enough votes to stop removal."

"This is all they got"--the problem is that they've got mountains, but Trump supporters don't care that their President is a liar and a crook as long as he's owning the libs. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 09, 2020, 02:14:29 PM
my point exactly

this is a straw man being built cause this is all they got
All we have is the president lying about the impact of the coronavirus? That's...quite a bit, just by itself
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 09, 2020, 02:17:01 PM
my point exactly

this is a straw man being built cause this is all they got
Well, we agree on 50% of this.

No straw man, just different views of the guy's actions. Right, wrong, or indifferent, I've got a lot of reasons to think Trump is the worst President of my lifetime, which goes back far enough to encompass Nixon. You clearly disagree. We won't change each other's minds (this is the point we agree on).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 09, 2020, 02:18:29 PM
I'd have to understand their orders.  The NG is not "well trained" in urban riot control, they can get out of hand as a result.  The noncomms may have been ordered to ensure everyone goes inside, and they took that literally.  I thought it was bizarre.  Nothing seemed to come of it.
Unless those people sued, I wouldn't imagine anything came of it. The NG were too far away to identify the shooter, and I doubt anyone absent much more enormous public pressure would do anything about it. 

But either way, I do believe it was an unlawful order. Per the YT commenters [unreliable source I know], the original FAQ on the curfew said you could be outside on your own property, and only after this incident was it change to state that if you were ordered inside by a law enforcement officer you had to comply. 

If it's an unlawful order then it doesn't matter if it was the individual NG making the decision to fire, or whether it was their noncoms, it was still unlawful.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 09, 2020, 02:19:47 PM
Okay, so non-violent non-protestors deserve to get pepper sprayed (or in this case shot at with pepper paintballs)?

And you're using the case of non-violent non-protestors on their own property harming no one as your argument to... defend the cops from wrongdoing?

Based on what is discussed, I can't even be sure that it would have been legal for the cops in this case to arrest the protestors. I'm trying to find a link to the official curfew order, but the little I've seen on Google suggests that people could not be out "in public". Being on your own porch on your own property does not meet the definition of "in public". 

So the cop had no legal standing to demand that they go inside anyway. Which brings us to the endpoint: non-violent non-protestors on their own property being shot at with pepper paintballs for refusing to comply with an unlawful order that they had no legal obligation to heed.
You seem to think that I am some huge pro-police guy, just because I side with them over the BLM/Antics types. I have plenty of problems with police. If you want to pit the police against the pot heads or other nonviolent criminals, fine. I'll side against police. But that's not what this movement is about. This is a coordinated effort to paint violent criminals as the good guys, and the cops that have to deal with those scumbags everyday as the bad guys, so I'm out. I don't give a shit if the cops gun down a rapist who is fighting with them, and trying to retrieve a weapon from his car. That is precisely what the police SHOULD be doing, instead of executing paramilitary style no knock warrants over someone's botanical practices.
If the police were just rolling around ordering people into their homes and then shooting them with paintballs, it would be appalling. But given the backdrop of looting and rioting, it becomes a lot more understandable in my opinion. Tensions are high, and the reasons are bullshit.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 09, 2020, 02:19:55 PM
It seemed ridiculous to me, I'm just hesitant because I don't know the entirety of the situation.

If the NG ordered me off my deck here, I'm not sure I'd comply.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 09, 2020, 02:21:27 PM
Again, the Ukraine thing.

We went from "nothing happened it's just fake news" to "yeah something happened and it was a crime and it's an impeachable crime but nobody wants to call witnesses in the Senate because Republicans have enough votes to stop removal."

is this really why witnesses weren't called?

if so, why start the process in the first place and run it through the House?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 09, 2020, 02:23:49 PM
All we have is the president lying about the impact of the coronavirus? That's...quite a bit, just by itself
leaders on both sides of the isle lied about the virus, when it fit their agenda

is it really quite a bit?

If so, why let them get by with it?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 09, 2020, 02:25:14 PM
It seemed ridiculous to me, I'm just hesitant because I don't know the entirety of the situation.

If the NG ordered me off my deck here, I'm not sure I'd comply.
you might eat a paintball
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 09, 2020, 02:25:55 PM
All we have is the president lying about the impact of the coronavirus? That's...quite a bit, just by itself
Maybe the point is that lots of people just don't think it is at all. 

Just is what it is. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 09, 2020, 02:25:57 PM
leaders on both sides of the isle lied about the virus, when it fit their agenda

is it really quite a bit?

If so, why let them get by with it?
Yes my question exactly
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 09, 2020, 02:27:24 PM
I'd have to understand their orders.  The NG is not "well trained" in urban riot control, they can get out of hand as a result.  The noncomms may have been ordered to ensure everyone goes inside, and they took that literally.  I thought it was bizarre.  Nothing seemed to come of it.
What would've come of it?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 09, 2020, 02:28:09 PM
leaders on both sides of the isle lied about the virus, when it fit their agenda

is it really quite a bit?

If so, why let them get by with it?
I dont think this is the scandal the dems can hang their hat on

they have misread the voters who are much more concerned about law and order etc

but if they want to spin their wheels on this great its just another bad judgement move on their part
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 09, 2020, 02:29:31 PM
Yes my question exactly
well, they don't really "get by with it" if they lose the next election, but when their opponent is also a habitual liar, it really doesn't matter
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 09, 2020, 02:30:54 PM
What would've come of it?
I really expected to read some kind of "after action report", perhaps an apology, a complaint made to someone in the city, something.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 09, 2020, 02:37:15 PM
I dont think this is the scandal the dems can hang their hat on

they have misread the voters who are much more concerned about law and order etc

I do think that some Dems that REALLY don't like Trump are afraid the riots and looting and arson could possibly come to their neighborhood

this could possibly sway some votes from the middle to go to Trump
not saying it will, but it's possible
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 09, 2020, 02:37:54 PM
Well, the statute of limitations on a violation of civil rights and personal injury claims won't expire for a while.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 09, 2020, 02:38:33 PM
You seem to think that I am some huge pro-police guy, just because I side with them over the BLM/Antics types. I have plenty of problems with police. If you want to pit the police against the pot heads or other nonviolent criminals, fine. I'll side against police. But that's not what this movement is about. This is a coordinated effort to paint violent criminals as the good guys, and the cops that have to deal with those scumbags everyday as the bad guys, so I'm out. I don't give a shit if the cops gun down a rapist who is fighting with them, and trying to retrieve a weapon from his car. That is precisely what the police SHOULD be doing, instead of executing paramilitary style no knock warrants over someone's botanical practices.
If the police were just rolling around ordering people into their homes and then shooting them with paintballs, it would be appalling. But given the backdrop of looting and rioting, it becomes a lot more understandable in my opinion. Tensions are high, and the reasons are bullshit.
Fair enough. I went back because I thought you were the one asking whether peaceful protesters were being pepper-sprayed. It turns out that was 847 asking about that.

I still think it's BS that NG troops fired upon someone legally, peacefully standing on their porch with a cellphone. 

Because I care about my own safety, if a cop asks me to do something I'm going to comply. But it doesn't mean I'll agree with it, and I believe those who choose to civilly disobey unlawful orders do not deserve to have cops abuse their authority and attack them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 09, 2020, 02:39:54 PM
Once there was a brawl outside my apartment that drew police helicopters and swarms of cops armed with shot guns. At one point the helicopter lowered itself down to my porch, and ordered me inside. I went in, and watched from the window.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 09, 2020, 02:41:16 PM
where does line belong in civilly disobey?

I didn't see the video, but it's possible someone threw something or yelled something threatening or some other not quite so civil action
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 09, 2020, 02:41:52 PM
Once there was a brawl outside my apartment that drew police helicopters and swarms of cops armed with shot guns. At one point the helicopter lowered itself down to my porch, and ordered me inside. I went in, and watched from the window.

rough neighborhood
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 09, 2020, 02:44:13 PM
You seem to think that I am some huge pro-police guy, just because I side with them over the BLM/Antics types. I have plenty of problems with police. If you want to pit the police against the pot heads or other nonviolent criminals, fine. I'll side against police. But that's not what this movement is about. This is a coordinated effort to paint violent criminals as the good guys, and the cops that have to deal with those scumbags everyday as the bad guys, so I'm out. I don't give a shit if the cops gun down a rapist who is fighting with them, and trying to retrieve a weapon from his car. That is precisely what the police SHOULD be doing, instead of executing paramilitary style no knock warrants over someone's botanical practices.
If the police were just rolling around ordering people into their homes and then shooting them with paintballs, it would be appalling.
But given the backdrop of looting and rioting, it becomes a lot more understandable in my opinion. Tensions are high, and the reasons are bullshit.
This seems like it would incentivize police to explain that every situation they're in is a high stress one, so all of their actions that infringe on folks' rights are fully just, unless it's in super specific circumstances. 

Even if you say you're not a huge pro police guy, what you've said above is the government should have pretty wide discretion to inflict violence on its citizenry. I tend to think that should be relatively narrow. It's hard to make that happen because of the home for dinner principle. But if the answer is that in a tense situation, the government has wide discrecion to cut folks down or damage property, well, that's one way to approach things. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 09, 2020, 02:45:56 PM
where does line belong in civilly disobey?

I didn't see the video, but it's possible someone threw something or yelled something threatening or some other not quite so civil action
I saw the video, no evidence for anything being thrown.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 09, 2020, 02:47:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LozQg0oX-Gw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LozQg0oX-Gw)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 09, 2020, 02:49:11 PM
Once there was a brawl outside my apartment that drew police helicopters and swarms of cops armed with shot guns. At one point the helicopter lowered itself down to my porch, and ordered me inside. I went in, and watched from the window.

So you did what the government ordered you to do? That's nice. 

I mean, it's still silly the government ordered you to. And would be bad if the government followed up by launching stuff at your patio to drive you inside. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 09, 2020, 02:49:26 PM
So, there was an 8 PM curfew and this happened at 9:30 PM.  Did the curfew include people on their porch doing nothing?

If so, it was idiotic, and these officers/troops took their orders rather literally.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 09, 2020, 02:50:36 PM
This seems like it would incentivize police to explain that every situation they're in is a high stress one, so all of their actions that infringe on folks' rights are fully just, unless it's in super specific circumstances.

Even if you say you're not a huge pro police guy, what you've said above is the government should have pretty wide discretion to inflict violence on its citizenry. I tend to think that should be relatively narrow. It's hard to make that happen because of the home for dinner principle. But if the answer is that in a tense situation, the government has wide discrecion to cut folks down or damage property, well, that's one way to approach things.
It also inspires the mediots to paint violent criminals as "hands up, don't shoot!"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 09, 2020, 02:53:32 PM
I wouldn't want to be the attorney defending the government authorities in that that video.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 09, 2020, 02:56:45 PM
I wouldn't want to be the attorney defending the government authorities in that that video.
Nor I, but there was a curfew.  My GUESS is the NG troops were told to clear the street and they thought that included people sitting on their porch and acted .... unreasonably.  The troops at times can get a feeling of power and authority and behave ... on that basis.

They ordered the folks inside and when they did not comply used nonlethal means, which was in my view an over reaction.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 09, 2020, 03:04:45 PM
Nor I, but there was a curfew.  My GUESS is the NG troops were told to clear the street and they thought that included people sitting on their porch and acted .... unreasonably.  The troops at times can get a feeling of power and authority and behave ... on that basis.

They ordered the folks inside and when they did not comply used nonlethal means, which was in my view an over reaction.
That's how it went down here in Kenosha. We were not allowed to be outside of our home, which in our case is our marina.

Were we to take one step outside of our gate, which is still marina property (and our home), we'd have been in violation of the curfew and subject to arrest.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 09, 2020, 03:15:43 PM
Nor I, but there was a curfew.  My GUESS is the NG troops were told to clear the street and they thought that included people sitting on their porch and acted .... unreasonably.  The troops at times can get a feeling of power and authority and behave ... on that basis.

They ordered the folks inside and when they did not comply used nonlethal means, which was in my view an over reaction.
this at times includes all folks with authority, especially if they are not accountable for their actions
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 09, 2020, 03:17:30 PM
this at times includes all folks with authority, especially if they are not accountable for their actions
I think it applies most times, or much of the time, unless someone is properly trained and experienced.  Befehlt ist befehlt.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 09, 2020, 03:21:27 PM
properly trained and experienced

and a good person that holds themselves accountable

about as tough for cops that have been in the system for more than a few years as it seems to  be for politicians that have been in the system for too long
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 09, 2020, 03:25:54 PM
That's how it went down here in Kenosha. We were not allowed to be outside of our home, which in our case is our marina.

Were we to take one step outside of our gate, which is still marina property (and our home), we'd have been in violation of the curfew and subject to arrest.
Because I'm unfamiliar with the layouts of marinas, when you say gate, what does that mean? I'm imagining a gate like at the edge of a fenced in front yard, but I have a feeling that's not right. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 09, 2020, 03:29:51 PM
It also inspires the mediots to paint violent criminals as "hands up, don't shoot!"
Setting aside the narrative of hands up don't shoot, something I to a degree roll my eyes at, it raises an interesting question of how stupid people can be around cops. 

We assume people on average are at best inattentive and fidgety. And the arrangement is they as the non-trained person are to be whip-straight in line, lest their life be forfeit to the trained government actors. We're taught to regard the cops less as responsible parties, but more of hair-trigger landmines that might well explode if brushed in the slightest way. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 09, 2020, 03:43:56 PM
hah,  a friend of my daughters who I know pretty well was "peacefully protesting" a day or two after the George Floyd killing.

he was shot by police with rubber bullets below the waist

he had pics of the bruises on FB and stated that when he was shot he had his arms up.

I asked him what he had thrown just before putting his arms up.  No reply....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 09, 2020, 03:44:58 PM
Because I'm unfamiliar with the layouts of marinas, when you say gate, what does that mean? I'm imagining a gate like at the edge of a fenced in front yard, but I have a feeling that's not right.
Well, you're right in your assumption. In our marina, there are main entrances (gates) that pass through common buildings - one of which I am sitting in now. Mine is at 5909 3rd Avenue in Kenosha. You can google earth that to see it. Here is an Ariel view of the layout:

That is looking NE'ly. At the Southwest is the building I'm sitting in, which also houses the gate we use to get in, and to get out to the marina parking lot, which is adjacent. My dock is the 3rd one up from the South. We are about as far out on that dock as you can get (4 slips from the end).

Many of the fires were about a block to the West from the parking area. One properly placed Molotov cocktail turns this place into Beruit. Harbor fires are not good.

(https://i.imgur.com/cPEeimO.jpg)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 09, 2020, 03:47:48 PM
looks familiar
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 09, 2020, 03:50:08 PM
looks familiar
The building we entered through when you visited is the one to the North. The one to the South, where we enter now, was not yet built. We moved docks since you came here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 09, 2020, 04:05:26 PM
I imagine they also expanded the parking lot?

That was a good day for my daughters and I.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 09, 2020, 04:09:34 PM
No parking lot expansion. They built it back in the day, with the idea that the harbor would be expanded to the master plan. Private development at work. Efficient, and all that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 09, 2020, 06:21:43 PM
https://twitter.com/ElArroyo_ATX/status/1303732025380278283/photo/1
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 09, 2020, 06:32:23 PM
We mostly all want the same things.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 09, 2020, 06:41:16 PM
Tortilla chips?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 09, 2020, 06:44:10 PM
A nice place to raise our family.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 09, 2020, 06:48:17 PM
Ok, that, too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 09, 2020, 06:58:31 PM
Tortilla chips?

Yes...?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 09, 2020, 07:12:35 PM
I see tortilla chips as a vehicle to salsa and guac. For the latter, frankly, I'd just as soon use a spoon, but hey, if it makes everyone feel better, I can compromise and use tortilla chips, too. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 09, 2020, 07:17:57 PM
I see tortilla chips as a vehicle to salsa and guac. For the latter, frankly, I'd just as soon use a spoon, but hey, if it makes everyone feel better, I can compromise and use tortilla chips, too.
Tortilla chips are just salty delicious spoons.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 09, 2020, 07:21:22 PM
Tortilla chips are just salty delicious spoons.
Seriously, especially homemade and still warm and with just a hint of chewiness, yet still crispy. You'll never go back to spoons.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 09, 2020, 07:22:12 PM


I see tortilla chips as a vehicle to salsa and guac. For the latter, frankly, I'd just as soon use a spoon, but hey, if it makes everyone feel better, I can compromise and use tortilla chips, too.
Well the joke is about chips, and it's a sign at a Tex-Mex restaurant, so... 

Anyway, tortilla chips are a vehicle for salsa and queso.  Guacamole can piss right off.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 09, 2020, 07:27:53 PM
Nothing wrong with Guacamole,compliments alot of things besides the LoneStar you're swilling - not that there's anything wrong with that
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 09, 2020, 07:27:55 PM
Tortilla chips?
Yup
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 09, 2020, 07:30:14 PM
a bipartisan discussion?  whod a thought it would take corn chips to accomplish that
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 09, 2020, 07:30:46 PM
Seriously, especially homemade and still warm and with just a hint of chewiness, yet still crispy. You'll never go back to spoons.
I keep saying I want to home fry some tortilla chips... That needs to get on the to-do list. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 09, 2020, 07:50:04 PM
Well the joke is about chips, and it's a sign at a Tex-Mex restaurant, so...

Anyway, tortilla chips are a vehicle for salsa and queso.  Guacamole can piss right off.



Hey, I'm good with queso, too, but them's fightin' words about guacamole. Sucks the humor right out of the whole thing.

Why you have to be anti fun? 

Proves it: Austin sucks.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 09, 2020, 08:01:02 PM
Well the joke is about chips, and it's a sign at a Tex-Mex restaurant, so...

Anyway, tortilla chips are a vehicle for salsa and queso.  Guacamole can piss right off.



I thought it was bad when some politics were allowed, but this garbage. This whole country is going to hell in a hand basket. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 09, 2020, 08:05:25 PM
Hey, I'm good with queso, too, but them's fightin' words about guacamole. Sucks the humor right out of the whole thing.

Why you have to be anti fun?

Proves it: Austin sucks.
Austin: No Fun and No Taste
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 09, 2020, 08:07:19 PM
Austin: No Fun and No Taste
youre right about that Houston too stay where you are dont move here
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 09, 2020, 08:12:47 PM
Yup, Austin is terrible, don't move here.

I keep saying I want to home fry some tortilla chips... That needs to get on the to-do list.

One of my high school jobs was working at a Tex-Mex restaurant doing all sorts of things, including frying tortillas for their housemade chips.  Hours at a time in the hot, un-air-conditioned attic, toiling over boiling oil.  You can take a dozen showers, wash your clothes a dozen times, and it's still going to smell like fried tortilla chips.

I'm A-OK buying them from the local taquerias, after a couple of summers of that. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 09, 2020, 08:26:44 PM
Yup, Austin is terrible, don't move here.

One of my high school jobs was working at a Tex-Mex restaurant doing all sorts of things, including frying tortillas for their housemade chips.  Hours at a time in the hot, un-air-conditioned attic, toiling over boiling oil.  You can take a dozen showers, wash your clothes a dozen times, and it's still going to smell like fried tortilla chips.

I'm A-OK buying them from the local taquerias, after a couple of summers of that. :)
My only food service job was as a sandwich artist. I learned I didn't want to work in food service. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 09, 2020, 08:33:50 PM
My only food service job was as a sandwich artist. I learned I didn't want to work in food service.
Smart move.  I also worked in our family's BBQ restaurant for several years before that.  

A lot of my friends appreciate the quality of BBQ I cook at home, and ask me why I don't start a restaurant.  They get treated to this look:

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/015/652/230114_908223010.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 09, 2020, 08:57:24 PM
Research indicates a hummingbird can travel as much as 23 miles in one day. However those that make the 500 mile flight from Florida to the Yucatan do it in 18-22 hours non-stop, depending on wind conditions.
We (I) put out a hummingbird feeder this year.  It has been up since May or so, and the liquid food has decreased a bit, so we were thinking that perhaps some hummingbirds had been around, but we hadn't seen any.
Weekend before last, I finally saw one.  I was getting some things out of the trunk of my car and heard a buzzing behind me.  Sounded like a big bee or something.  It was a hummingbird.  As soon as I turned around and saw him, and he saw me, he was off like a flash.
Come to think of it, it might have been a she, as the coloring was pretty drab.
I saw hummingbirds as big as wrens once.  In Scottsdale, AZ, IIRC.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 09, 2020, 09:03:58 PM
We (I) put out a hummingbird feeder this year.  It has been up since May or so, and the liquid food has decreased a bit, so we were thinking that perhaps some hummingbirds had been around, but we hadn't seen any.
Weekend before last, I finally saw one.  I was getting some things out of the trunk of my car and heard a buzzing behind me.  Sounded like a big bee or something.  It was a hummingbird.  As soon as I turned around and saw him, and he saw me, he was off like a flash.
Come to think of it, it might have been a she, as the coloring was pretty drab.
I saw hummingbirds as big as wrens once.  In Scottsdale, AZ, IIRC.
They are a skittish bunch. Ours has six hummingbird ports, but any time a second one comes around it scares off the first.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 09, 2020, 09:05:30 PM
We (I) put out a hummingbird feeder this year.  It has been up since May or so, and the liquid food has decreased a bit, so we were thinking that perhaps some hummingbirds had been around, but we hadn't seen any.
Weekend before last, I finally saw one.  I was getting some things out of the trunk of my car and heard a buzzing behind me.  Sounded like a big bee or something.  It was a hummingbird.  As soon as I turned around and saw him, and he saw me, he was off like a flash.
Come to think of it, it might have been a she, as the coloring was pretty drab.
I saw hummingbirds as big as wrens once.  In Scottsdale, AZ, IIRC.
I dont think we have humming birds around here
all we have are big ass vultures that hum as they eat road kill
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 09, 2020, 09:13:52 PM
Smart move.  I also worked in our family's BBQ restaurant for several years before that. 

A lot of my friends appreciate the quality of BBQ I cook at home, and ask me why I don't start a restaurant.  They get treated to this look:

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/015/652/230114_908223010.png)

Same look if someone asks me if I want to open a brewery. Hmm, combine a massive pay cut with backbreaking labor, while turning a hobby into an obligation. What's not to like?
They are a skittish bunch. Ours has six hummingbird ports, but any time a second one comes around it scares off the first.
Hummingbirds are assholes. We had to hang a second feeder because they'd fight each other off the one.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 09, 2020, 09:21:04 PM
is this really why witnesses weren't called?

if so, why start the process in the first place and run it through the House?
The House is like a grand jury.  The prosecutor presents some evidence for the purpose of getting an indictment.  Impeachment is the equivalent of the indictment.
The Senate is like the trial court.  That's where the real action is supposed to take place.
But the majority Republicans refused to allow witnesses to be called.  I assume it's because all but one of them didn't care what the POTUS had done one way or the other.  Witnesses would have just made their "not guilty" votes more difficult to explain away.
One of the explanations offered for why John Bolton didn't offer much public criticism of Trump after he was fired was that he assumed he'd be called to testify in the Senate impeachment trial.
Of course, another explanation was that he didn't want to spoil the surprises in his upcoming book.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 09, 2020, 09:33:03 PM
. . . One of my high school jobs was working at a Tex-Mex restaurant doing all sorts of things, including frying tortillas for their housemade chips.  Hours at a time in the hot, un-air-conditioned attic, toiling over boiling oil.  You can take a dozen showers, wash your clothes a dozen times, and it's still going to smell like fried tortilla chips. . . .
I too worked at a "Mexican" restaurant in HS.  Casa Bonita was the name.  Same phenomenon with the showers and washing of clothes.  The smell stayed with me.
I was dating the girl who is now my wife.  We still laugh about our old dates, after I'd race home from work in my Datsun 2000, shower, douse myself in Brut, and pick her up still smelling like generic "Mexican" food.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 09, 2020, 09:42:53 PM
I too worked at a "Mexican" restaurant in HS.  Casa Bonita was the name.  Same phenomenon with the showers and washing of clothes.  The smell stayed with me.
I was dating the girl who is now my wife.  We still laugh about our old dates, after I'd race home from work in my Datsun 2000, shower, douse myself in Brut, and pick her up still smelling like generic "Mexican" food.
I was a Whataburger employee

my main job each morning was to cut up onions to be used on the burgers 

so I didnt smell like Mexican Food but instead onions and let me tell you its hard to make that smell go away
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 09, 2020, 09:52:47 PM
Smart move.  I also worked in our family's BBQ restaurant for several years before that. 

A lot of my friends appreciate the quality of BBQ I cook at home, and ask me why I don't start a restaurant.  They get treated to this look:

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/015/652/230114_908223010.png)

How good a BBQ place we talking? The family one, I mean.

Starting a restaurant is a nightmare. We have a great local BBQ truck that seems like a high wire act. The pandemic might've actually helped them to a degree, but it seems line a monstrously long set of days for them to serve just one day a week. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: CWSooner on September 09, 2020, 09:59:34 PM
I was a Whataburger employee

my main job each morning was to cut up onions to be used on the burgers

so I didnt smell like Mexican Food but instead onions and let me tell you its hard to make that smell go away
In college, at the original Across the Street restaurant, I sometimes sliced onions as prep for making onion rings.  That was the least enjoyable part about working there.
Back in HS, at Casa Bonita, I occasionally had to go in early Sunday morning to roll enchiladas.  Had to deal with chopped onions doing that.  I wasn't having to do the cutting, though.
I intensely dislike the taste and smell of raw onions.
Chopped red onions on top of a bowl of chili is about the only exception.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 09, 2020, 10:07:21 PM
The family restaurant was good, very good actually.  There have always been lots of good BBQ restaurants around here, long before folks decided you needed to be called a "Pitmaster" and earn James Beard awards and such.

But it's a lot different running a sit-down restaurant that serves full lunch and dinner hours, like ours was, compared to running a trailer operation the way folks like Aaron Franklin do.  It's easier for Franklin to keep the quality high when you're only targeting one period of 2-3 hours for service, and you know you're going to sell out so there's no waste.

Restaurant hours are long and tough, and many employees are notoriously unreliable at best, and outright thieves pretty often as well.  

Still, someday if I ever won the lotto-- like a $500 million kind of lotto-- I'd probably open up a restaurant just for fun, knowing it wasn't going to make money, but just trying to make some really excellent food.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on September 09, 2020, 10:52:52 PM
i worked at a friends fresh seafood market for a couple months... was under the guise of "helping him out some" which i didn't mind doing.... this is right after i shut down the cigar shops and just before i shipped off OCONUS doing the contract thing- so the timing was right.   

one day i noticed he wasn't around much anymore, and was out fishing more times than not- not commercial fishing, but recreational... and he didn't even ask me to go like he often did before i agreed to help him out... why would he? he needed me to run his business while he fished... grrrr.... I told him I had to go to a wedding one weekend and he got angry telling me I better reconsider if I wanted to keep working there.... dahfook?  that was my last day.  He wasn't even paying me minimum wage with all the hours i was pulling... and it was just to 'help him out of a tight spot'... i've learned a lot about people over the years... but i NEVER learned how to get the smell of seafood out of your skin... it has to just wear off... terrible... and when you think it's gone? go to a gym and get a good workout going, and you'll discover it's not.  the only thing good about working at a fresh seafood market is you actually gain an immunity to poisons found in fish and crustacean... it doesn't come easy, mind you- you get poked with those things in your hands and fingers, and they become super sore- and then, after a while, they don't bother you whatsoever other than the poke.  

re: tortillas... I LOVE flour tortillas... use them for everything from sandwiches to quesadillas to mopping a plate of eggs and sausage for breakfast.. corn? i've no use for them unless they're fried and in chip form... UNTIL.... i discovered pulled smoked pork, pickled assorted peppers, and rolled like spring rolls and dropped in cast iron pan deep enough to cover them, and fried... served with a blob (okay, a 'dollop') of sour cream and fresh salsa... drizzled in hot sauce... and... kaboom- i'm a corn tortilla fan after all.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 09, 2020, 11:29:39 PM
Arizona has all the hummingbirds.  

If they fly non-stop from FL to Mexico, it must be over pirate-infested waters.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 10, 2020, 12:11:09 AM
corn? i've no use for them unless they're fried and in chip form... UNTIL.... i discovered pulled smoked pork, pickled assorted peppers, and rolled like spring rolls and dropped in cast iron pan deep enough to cover them, and fried... served with a blob (okay, a 'dollop') of sour cream and fresh salsa... drizzled in hot sauce... and... kaboom- i'm a corn tortilla fan after all. 
Wife makes homemade taquitos, pulled pork, brisket, or heck whatever we've got. Delicious. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 10, 2020, 02:06:04 AM
 Hummingbirds are assholes. We had to hang a second feeder because they'd fight each other off the one.

True, but their tongues are pretty impressive. They can extend that bad boy more than two inches beyond the end of their beak if they have to, in order to slurp up that sugar water. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 10, 2020, 02:42:14 AM
True, but their tongues are pretty impressive. They can extend that bad boy more than two inches beyond the end of their beak if they have to, in order to slurp up that sugar water.
I'd guess they mate for life
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 10, 2020, 04:34:33 AM
So, I got the second Shingrix shot yesterday (shingles).  The first one made me feel bad day and a half.  This one taken at noon was fine until I went to bed around 10 PM.  I started shivering uncontrollably, I had to put a pen between my teeth.  The wife covered me up with blankets and I finally took Tylenol.  Then I woke at 3 AM feeling  gnarly but nor shivering.  I almost got the flu shot yesterday as well, the wife talked me out of that.

This is a dead virus vaccine but apparently a minority react fairly badly.  I'm "OK", and it's better than getting shingles, but that was not much fun for a while.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 10, 2020, 07:25:54 AM
Same look if someone asks me if I want to open a brewery. Hmm, combine a massive pay cut with backbreaking labor, while turning a hobby into an obligation. What's not to like? Hummingbirds are assholes. We had to hang a second feeder because they'd fight each other off the one.
Maybe but think how far they came for that drink.They'd prolly burn 1/4 of their weight hovering in line
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 10, 2020, 08:49:45 AM
A nice place to raise our family.
try Iowa, Nebraska, South Dakota, Kansas

plenty of clean air, water, and open spaces

most of the few people that are around aren't asshats
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 10, 2020, 08:51:11 AM
Wyoming is a place I would consider. Not Jackson, of course.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 10, 2020, 08:54:58 AM
too many cowboys and tumbleweeds
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 10, 2020, 09:20:25 AM
Wyoming is a place I would consider. Not Jackson, of course.
Badge's requirements
1. Is there a body of water for the boat?
2. Can I avoid people if I want to?

FIN
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 10, 2020, 09:22:41 AM
i worked at a friends fresh seafood market for a couple months... was under the guise of "helping him out some" which i didn't mind doing.... this is right after i shut down the cigar shops and just before i shipped off OCONUS doing the contract thing- so the timing was right. 

one day i noticed he wasn't around much anymore, and was out fishing more times than not- not commercial fishing, but recreational... and he didn't even ask me to go like he often did before i agreed to help him out... why would he? he needed me to run his business while he fished... grrrr.... I told him I had to go to a wedding one weekend and he got angry telling me I better reconsider if I wanted to keep working there.... dahfook?  that was my last day.  He wasn't even paying me minimum wage with all the hours i was pulling... and it was just to 'help him out of a tight spot'... i've learned a lot about people over the years... but i NEVER learned how to get the smell of seafood out of your skin... it has to just wear off... terrible... and when you think it's gone? go to a gym and get a good workout going, and you'll discover it's not.  the only thing good about working at a fresh seafood market is you actually gain an immunity to poisons found in fish and crustacean... it doesn't come easy, mind you- you get poked with those things in your hands and fingers, and they become super sore- and then, after a while, they don't bother you whatsoever other than the poke. 

re: tortillas... I LOVE flour tortillas... use them for everything from sandwiches to quesadillas to mopping a plate of eggs and sausage for breakfast.. corn? i've no use for them unless they're fried and in chip form... UNTIL.... i discovered pulled smoked pork, pickled assorted peppers, and rolled like spring rolls and dropped in cast iron pan deep enough to cover them, and fried... served with a blob (okay, a 'dollop') of sour cream and fresh salsa... drizzled in hot sauce... and... kaboom- i'm a corn tortilla fan after all. 

Corn tortillas are used in making delicious enchiladas, so that's a pretty important use for them.

I also prefer traditional street tacos in corn (you use two of them) over flour.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 10, 2020, 09:23:12 AM
too many cowboys and tumbleweeds
I'm cool with those, but too much winter for damn sure.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on September 10, 2020, 10:02:38 AM
Corn tortillas are used in making delicious enchiladas, so that's a pretty important use for them.

I also prefer traditional street tacos in corn (you use two of them) over flour.

I'm not sure what you use in your enchilada recipe, but we've tried to use corn tortillas in our enchiladas and all they do is fall apart when they're in the oven.

On Netflix, there is a show called the Taco Chronicles. The first episode focused on al pastor tacos in Mexico City. By the looks of it, taquieras in Mexico City are as ubiquitous as pizza slices in New York or teriyaki in Seattle (https://thetakeout.com/the-teriyaki-shop-seattle-s-unspoken-obsession-1798251785). Their al pastor tacos are actually cooked on a spit, like gyro meat. They look great. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 10, 2020, 11:25:08 AM
This is a dead virus vaccine but apparently a minority react fairly badly.  I'm "OK", and it's better than getting shingles, but that was not much fun for a while.
I've got 8 years before I'm old enough for insurance to cover the shingles vaccine, despite the fact that I got shingles two years ago. 

Luckily mine was really mild, but I don't want a repeat. 

I'm not sure what you use in your enchilada recipe, but we've tried to use corn tortillas in our enchiladas and all they do is fall apart when they're in the oven.

On Netflix, there is a show called the Taco Chronicles. The first episode focused on al pastor tacos in Mexico City. By the looks of it, taquieras in Mexico City are as ubiquitous as pizza slices in New York or teriyaki in Seattle (https://thetakeout.com/the-teriyaki-shop-seattle-s-unspoken-obsession-1798251785). Their al pastor tacos are actually cooked on a spit, like gyro meat. They look great.
Do you fry your tortillas before you fill them? It really helps them hold together. Depending on the heat of the oil, it's only 30-40 seconds, not enough to get crispy. Part of that is "by feel", too. The wife and I just did enchiladas on Monday, and I was frying the tortillas before she filled them. I was only doing 30 seconds, but after a few she asked me to increase and I pushed it to ~35 seconds and they held together better. 

And yes, al pastor is Spanish for effing delicious
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 10, 2020, 11:34:01 AM
https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1304074343228600321?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on September 10, 2020, 11:42:25 AM
https://youtu.be/cit17Si-Vts
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 10, 2020, 11:53:04 AM
too many cowboys and tumbleweeds
Ski snobs
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 10, 2020, 11:54:34 AM
I'm not sure what you use in your enchilada recipe, but we've tried to use corn tortillas in our enchiladas and all they do is fall apart when they're in the oven.

On Netflix, there is a show called the Taco Chronicles. The first episode focused on al pastor tacos in Mexico City. By the looks of it, taquieras in Mexico City are as ubiquitous as pizza slices in New York or teriyaki in Seattle (https://thetakeout.com/the-teriyaki-shop-seattle-s-unspoken-obsession-1798251785). Their al pastor tacos are actually cooked on a spit, like gyro meat. They look great.

Do you fry your tortillas before you fill them? It really helps them hold together. Depending on the heat of the oil, it's only 30-40 seconds, not enough to get crispy. Part of that is "by feel", too. The wife and I just did enchiladas on Monday, and I was frying the tortillas before she filled them. I was only doing 30 seconds, but after a few she asked me to increase and I pushed it to ~35 seconds and they held together better.

And yes, al pastor is Spanish for effing delicious.

Yeah, you absolutely have to (very lightly) fry your tortillas in oil before saucing them and rolling them.  Fresh tortillas also work much better than older ones, old ones dry out and break easily.

Additionally, you can always do stacked enchiladas instead of rolled.  Lots of places call them "Santa Fe" or "New Mexico" style. I do them this way fairly often, and always top with a fried egg, sunny side up.  So good!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 10, 2020, 12:04:34 PM
(https://remcooks.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/dsc03394.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 10, 2020, 12:10:18 PM
Dashed line is Google Maps' approximation of the fire boundary in Southern Oregon.

Blue rectangle is my brother-in-law's house and farm. 

They're currently evacuated to my mother-in-law's house. 

(https://i.imgur.com/y4Eexgj.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 10, 2020, 12:17:40 PM
(https://remcooks.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/dsc03394.jpg)
Looks great, except for that stinky avocado slop.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 10, 2020, 12:17:44 PM
Dashed line is Google Maps' approximation of the fire boundary in Southern Oregon.

Blue rectangle is my brother-in-law's house and farm.

They're currently evacuated to my mother-in-law's house.

[img width=273.429 height=335]https://i.imgur.com/y4Eexgj.png[/img]
😬😬😬😬😬
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 10, 2020, 12:18:38 PM
Dashed line is Google Maps' approximation of the fire boundary in Southern Oregon.

Blue rectangle is my brother-in-law's house and farm.

They're currently evacuated to my mother-in-law's house.

(https://i.imgur.com/y4Eexgj.png)
Too close for comfort. Need some rain.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 10, 2020, 12:21:24 PM
Looks great, except for that stinky avocado slop.
Agreed.  I didn't take the picture, it's just one I found randomly on Google.

Here it would be served with Mexican rice and refried beans.  That corn relish is not uncommon, either.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 10, 2020, 12:23:03 PM
Dashed line is Google Maps' approximation of the fire boundary in Southern Oregon.

Blue rectangle is my brother-in-law's house and farm.

They're currently evacuated to my mother-in-law's house.

(https://i.imgur.com/y4Eexgj.png)


Another great reason to install a moat. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 10, 2020, 12:54:37 PM
Ski snobs
they don't care for flat landers filling up the lift lines and the trails

they really don't like Texans
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 10, 2020, 12:56:26 PM
Agreed.  I didn't take the picture, it's just one I found randomly on Google.

Here it would be served with Mexican rice and refried beans.  That corn relish is not uncommon, either.
I'd eat all of it and wash it down with a Budweiser!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 10, 2020, 01:05:21 PM
they don't care for flat landers filling up the lift lines and the trails

they really don't like Texans
Nobody does.

But Texans don't typically go to Wyoming to ski.  Primarily Colorado and New Mexico, with maybe a little bit of Utah.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 10, 2020, 01:10:17 PM
Nobody does.

But Texans don't typically go to Wyoming to ski.  Primarily Colorado and New Mexico, with maybe a little bit of Utah.

Colorado really hates Texans

not sure why

I mean we let them sell their beer here (although its really not that good)

we spend a lot of tourist dollars there

in fact if we Texans stopped going to Colorado they would have to file bankruptcy 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on September 10, 2020, 01:14:29 PM
Arizona has all the hummingbirds. 

If they fly non-stop from FL to Mexico, it must be over pirate-infested waters.
Hey we agree on something :)

I will easily see a least a half a dozen hummingbirds in my backyard every day without a feeder, just the landscaping I have. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 10, 2020, 01:17:22 PM
Colorado really hates Texans

not sure why

I mean we let them sell their beer here (although its really not that good)

we spend a lot of tourist dollars there

in fact if we Texans stopped going to Colorado they would have to file bankruptcy
not sure why either except for Texans being very obnoxious and loud and usually knowing very little, especially about skiing

I've done all my skiing in Colorado.  Most of it near Durango and Telluride - close to Texas
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on September 10, 2020, 01:17:42 PM
So, I got the second Shingrix shot yesterday (shingles).  The first one made me feel bad day and a half.  This one taken at noon was fine until I went to bed around 10 PM.  I started shivering uncontrollably, I had to put a pen between my teeth.  The wife covered me up with blankets and I finally took Tylenol.  Then I woke at 3 AM feeling  gnarly but nor shivering.  I almost got the flu shot yesterday as well, the wife talked me out of that.

This is a dead virus vaccine but apparently a minority react fairly badly.  I'm "OK", and it's better than getting shingles, but that was not much fun for a while.


About year or two ago, my mother got the shingle vaccine and promptly got the shingles. At the time she was one of 13 known cases of people getting the shingles from the vaccine.  She was even interview by the CDC.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 10, 2020, 01:21:26 PM
I had a neighbor with a regular bird feeder. Everyday a squirrel would climb up there and eat all of the seeds. He thought the birds were just really hungry. Everyday he'd check it, see that it was empty again, shake his head, and then load it back up. Wash, rinse, repeat. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 10, 2020, 01:28:26 PM
not sure why either except for Texans being very obnoxious and loud and usually knowing very little, especially about skiing


All the same things that Europeans say about Americans in general.  Bigotry knows no borders.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 10, 2020, 01:30:41 PM
Coloradians also think they know how to wear boots and stetsons better
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 10, 2020, 01:32:44 PM
Coloradians also think they know how to wear boots and stetsons better
People are hypocrites.  Film at 11! :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 10, 2020, 02:06:40 PM
People are hypocrites.  Film at 11! :)
A few years ago my boss and I went to Denver on a business trip

we were returning to our motel and just about to pull into a parking space when all of a sudden a car

whips around us and parks in our spot 

I say something like who the hell does he think he is and then we notice his Texas license plate and a Houston sticker on the back of his car

we just looked at each other and laughed
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 10, 2020, 02:10:10 PM
It is a terrible idea to anger someone while you are parking. 

They know where your car is parked, and that it will be unattended for a while. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 10, 2020, 02:13:54 PM
what are you implying, sir?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 10, 2020, 02:20:54 PM
It is a terrible idea to anger someone while you are parking.

They know where your car is parked, and that it will be unattended for a while.
we Texans been doin that for years

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 10, 2020, 02:36:33 PM
I had a neighbor with a regular bird feeder. Everyday a squirrel would climb up there and eat all of the seeds. He thought the birds were just really hungry. Everyday he'd check it, see that it was empty again, shake his head, and then load it back up. Wash, rinse, repeat.
We used to have a regular bird feeder. It was great to watch the birds go after it, but it caused tons of seed material to hit the ground. And then we started seeing the rats. 

Wife said "bird feeder is going bye-bye". I did some research and found spicy bird seed which doesn't bother birds [they aren't affected by capsaicin] but apparently mammals hate it.

Not these rats. Must have grown up on spicy Mexican and Thai cooking here in SoCal...

So we only have the hummingbird feeders now. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 10, 2020, 02:46:31 PM
A bird feeder in a yard is like having a dog or cat in a house.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 10, 2020, 03:08:51 PM
We used to have a regular bird feeder. It was great to watch the birds go after it, but it caused tons of seed material to hit the ground. And then we started seeing the rats.

Wife said "bird feeder is going bye-bye". I did some research and found spicy bird seed which doesn't bother birds [they aren't affected by capsaicin] but apparently mammals hate it.

Not these rats. Must have grown up on spicy Mexican and Thai cooking here in SoCal...

So we only have the hummingbird feeders now.
Oh man, that spicy stuff is brutal. I set some out once, and then like a dumb ass rubbed my eye a little while later. Instant burn. So then I race over to the garden hose in order to flush out my eye, but it had been sitting in the sun and the water was just scalding hot. So I am just screaming and yelling and writhing around in pain, and the neighbors came out thinking that I had run over my foot with the lawnmower, or whatever. Nope. Just burning my face off like a moron. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 10, 2020, 03:12:55 PM
Oh man, that spicy stuff is brutal. I set some out once, and then like a dumb ass rubbed my eye a little while later. Instant burn. So then I race over to the garden hose in order to flush out my eye, but it had been sitting in the sun and the water was just scalding hot. So I am just screaming and yelling and writhing around in pain, and the neighbors came out thinking that I had run over my foot with the lawnmower, or whatever. Nope. Just burning my face off like a moron.
and you have not gotten the virus yet?

amazing
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 10, 2020, 03:15:39 PM
The virus that you don't even know that you have unless you get tested? 

It is entirely possible that I have contracted it at some point. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 10, 2020, 03:42:08 PM
The virus that you don't even know that you have unless you get tested?

It is entirely possible that I have contracted it at some point.
yep thats the one

I developed a dry cough a week ago 

I guess Ive got another week to go before Im no longer positive

seriously its stuff like that that makes one stop and take their temp
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 10, 2020, 03:44:45 PM
Not gonna lie, the sky here was crazy yesterday. It really looked like that twitter video Sam posted. It was orange and dark, getting darker after 8am, then finally getting a little lighter about 5pm. It was distracting, and had a actual, visceral impact on me. My body and brain reacted to how strange it was. It was really, really weird.

Today we still have a layer of clouds that I think include ash, resulting in an oddly low temperature (like yesterday), but no orange glow, and it's lighter, like a normal overcast day. Conversely our air quality is worse.

This was my backyard yesterday at 10:30 am, as best my iPhone could capture it (the color is reasonably accurate):
(https://i.imgur.com/UVqlMNu.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 10, 2020, 03:54:40 PM
Nature is pretty awesome and sometimes scary, when we stop to think about it.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 10, 2020, 04:00:29 PM
Oh man, that spicy stuff is brutal. I set some out once, and then like a dumb ass rubbed my eye a little while later. Instant burn. So then I race over to the garden hose in order to flush out my eye, but it had been sitting in the sun and the water was just scalding hot. So I am just screaming and yelling and writhing around in pain, and the neighbors came out thinking that I had run over my foot with the lawnmower, or whatever. Nope. Just burning my face off like a moron.
Afroman is gonna luv this...............
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 10, 2020, 04:04:04 PM
Nature is pretty awesome and sometimes scary, when we stop to think about it.


The thing that really struck me was my animalistic response to it. No matter how logically I approached it (I knew why the sky looked that way and that the air quality was actually better than it has been--and it's worse today), my brain wouldn't stop telling me how crazy it was, and I felt out of sorts all day.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 10, 2020, 04:09:16 PM
I have felt out of sorts most of the day but took a nap and feel more normal now, or what passes for normal.

This was the Shingrix vaccine with dead virus, I don't believe I could get the disease from the vaccine.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 10, 2020, 04:21:34 PM
Not gonna lie, the sky here was crazy yesterday. It really looked like that twitter video Sam posted. It was orange and dark, getting darker after 8am, then finally getting a little lighter about 5pm. It was distracting, and had a actual, visceral impact on me. My body and brain reacted to how strange it was. It was really, really weird.

Today we still have a layer of clouds that I think include ash, resulting in an oddly low temperature (like yesterday), but no orange glow, and it's lighter, like a normal overcast day. Conversely our air quality is worse.

This was my backyard yesterday at 10:30 am, as best my iPhone could capture it (the color is reasonably accurate):
(https://i.imgur.com/UVqlMNu.png)

Are you going to have to evacuate?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 10, 2020, 04:23:44 PM
The thing that really struck me was my animalistic response to it. No matter how logically I approached it (I knew why the sky looked that way and that the air quality was actually better than it has been--and it's worse today), my brain wouldn't stop telling me how crazy it was, and I felt out of sorts all day.
This is how I felt when I was watching Kenosha burn. The sky was orange/red at 2AM. I'm still out of sorts from that. Going to take a while to recover.

How are you holding up?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 10, 2020, 04:38:38 PM
No, the only fire that was reasonably close to us was still on the other side of the hills from us (ocean side rather than bay side), and would have had to burn through a lot of urban area to get to us--and that one is basically contained. It impacts our air quality, but the threat of fire in our neighborhood was remote.

The orange sky was from all the ash in the higher atmosphere from all of the fires on the west coast right now, so not really specific to us in the Bay Area--it's just we were the ones who got the strange lighting from it.

I'm basically over it now, except for the lingering, "2020 is stupid" thought that is a near constant refrain in my mind.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 10, 2020, 04:39:35 PM
Afroman is gonna luv this...............
As, all of ya have done some really stupid things at some point or another. Only difference is that I'm not afraid to tell a funny story on myself.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 10, 2020, 04:41:56 PM
We get orange/red skies similar to that when the Saharan dust blows across the Atlantic and into the Gulf, usually happens once or twice per year in the summer.  Not quite THAT pronounced, but similar.  Really eerie when it happens.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 10, 2020, 04:50:31 PM
we don't get anything like that out here in the middle of God's country
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 10, 2020, 07:03:12 PM
Let's talk about your Great Lake. :86:


Anyway, yeah, every place has its advantages. Kenosha was really starting to come along, and many of the businesses have committed to come back. Go Fund Me has been strong.

I still hear sirens, helicopters, gunshots, fireworks and chanting. It's been over two weeks. 

Hopefully it goes away. It didn't help that my boat was covered in ashes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 10, 2020, 07:11:22 PM
They are rebuilding in the same location? Like New Orleans? Yikes. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 10, 2020, 07:21:09 PM
Slightly different circumstances.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 10, 2020, 07:33:58 PM
Different paths with similar outcomes. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 10, 2020, 07:40:23 PM
Not really. 

One could have been prevented by earlier government interaction (US Marshalls) while the other was caused by too much government interaction (US Army Corps).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 10, 2020, 08:08:33 PM
Certainly not identical. 

Both resulted in looting and destruction, and both could happen again at any time. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 10, 2020, 08:47:56 PM
we don't get anything like that out here in the middle of God's country
:c029:

I have yet to be able to nail down where exactly "God's country" is.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 10, 2020, 08:49:38 PM
:c029:

I have yet to be able to nail down where exactly "God's country" is.
yep we know
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 10, 2020, 09:02:13 PM
It's the land of sky blue waters, and you can get fully Krausened. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 10, 2020, 09:04:06 PM
2020, probably best in hindsight.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 10, 2020, 09:07:01 PM
Yep. I longer wish to have 2020 vision.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 10, 2020, 10:00:55 PM
:c029:

I have yet to be able to nail down where exactly "God's country" is.
Well I'm pretty sure Phoenix is the 5th circle of hell this time of year :57:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 10, 2020, 10:10:59 PM
Well I'm pretty sure Phoenix is the 5th circle of hell this time of year :57:
Heres where I put a utube clip of Sam Kinison move out of the desert routine


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAgUICswZuY
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 10, 2020, 10:53:37 PM
:c029:

I have yet to be able to nail down where exactly "God's country" is.
have you seen the field of dreams?
it's heaven
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 11, 2020, 10:59:38 AM
Some nice local news about the police. Local papers are good for this kind of thing:
https://www.smdailyjournal.com/news/local/redwood-city-and-san-mateo-officers-save-the-lives-of-3-in-separate-incidents/article_dbfd2a30-f3e1-11ea-b58b-0b0a7ed69111.html (https://www.smdailyjournal.com/news/local/redwood-city-and-san-mateo-officers-save-the-lives-of-3-in-separate-incidents/article_dbfd2a30-f3e1-11ea-b58b-0b0a7ed69111.html)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 11, 2020, 11:27:00 AM
Some nice local news about the police. Local papers are good for this kind of thing:
https://www.smdailyjournal.com/news/local/redwood-city-and-san-mateo-officers-save-the-lives-of-3-in-separate-incidents/article_dbfd2a30-f3e1-11ea-b58b-0b0a7ed69111.html (https://www.smdailyjournal.com/news/local/redwood-city-and-san-mateo-officers-save-the-lives-of-3-in-separate-incidents/article_dbfd2a30-f3e1-11ea-b58b-0b0a7ed69111.html)
you will never see that on CNN
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 11, 2020, 12:09:25 PM
you will never see that on CNN
Will you see it on Fox? 

I mean, it's just some local feel-good story. I doubt it makes ANY national news. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 11, 2020, 12:22:29 PM
I really like our local 24-hour cable news station, used to be Time Warner Cable local news and is now Spectrum.  They show a lot of local news, and of course cover every major national issue but they do it without much bias or editorializing. 

They also show some local interest stories from other parts of the country and world, usually when it's GOOD news, and although they might not cover this one specifically, they do tend to show stuff like this.  They have 24 hours per day to fill, so they can do a lot of different stuff.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on September 11, 2020, 12:28:47 PM
Well I'm pretty sure Phoenix is the 5th circle of hell this time of year :57:
It was 65 Wednesday morning, I was freezing. Give me 105 any day of the week
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 11, 2020, 12:30:20 PM
We hit 59 yesterday morning here at my house. That's a little too cool for me but running 5 miles helped warm me up a bit.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 11, 2020, 12:31:15 PM
Will you see it on Fox?

I mean, it's just some local feel-good story. I doubt it makes ANY national news.
all the time
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 11, 2020, 12:32:58 PM
Will you see it on Fox?

I mean, it's just some local feel-good story. I doubt it makes ANY national news.
example

https://www.foxnews.com/us/biloxi-police-officer-robert-mckeithen
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 11, 2020, 12:35:12 PM
example 2

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6141024039001#sp=show-clips


again you wont see this on CNN cause it doesnt go with their agenda
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on September 11, 2020, 12:43:43 PM
I really like our local 24-hour cable news station, used to be Time Warner Cable local news and is now Spectrum.  They show a lot of local news, and of course cover every major national issue but they do it without much bias or editorializing.

They also show some local interest stories from other parts of the country and world, usually when it's GOOD news, and although they might not cover this one specifically, they do tend to show stuff like this.  They have 24 hours per day to fill, so they can do a lot of different stuff.

WGN is trying this model.

We'll see.

If this is what the market demanded, CNN and Fox would already do it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 11, 2020, 12:44:41 PM
It was 65 Wednesday morning, I was freezing. Give me 105 any day of the week
The sun has fried your medula
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 11, 2020, 12:59:13 PM
With highs in the 70s and 80s and sunny, I get the whole lake to myself around here. It's great. 

That's about as hot as it ever got in Ohio. Maybe 90s in July. Only it would be cloudy and windy and humid. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 11, 2020, 01:01:48 PM
83°F here partly cloudy.  Headed to the pool after lunch digests a bit.

I am very happy to have recovered from the Shingrix reaction.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 11, 2020, 01:52:06 PM
and I'm very happy to not have been infected by the Sturgis motorcycle rally folks
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 11, 2020, 02:00:20 PM
example 2

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6141024039001#sp=show-clips


again you wont see this on CNN cause it doesnt go with their agenda
Fair enough. 

Question: was their reporting all feel-good during 2009-2016? 

Or do they also have an agenda?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 11, 2020, 02:05:15 PM
WGN is trying this model.

We'll see.

If this is what the market demanded, CNN and Fox would already do it.
Well yeah, for sure.  The Mainstream Media plus CNN/MSNBC/etc. pandering to the Left, and Fox pandering to the right, works for their business model, because those people that watch those channels prefer to remain in their own echo chambers.

I loathe both "sides" and hate the bias I see in all of them.  So for me, the local cable news channel is perfect.  It provides me the news most relevant to my daily life, but also covers the major national stories, and it does it with a minimum of editorializing and slant.  It works for me but I recognize that it would never satisfy the people who prefer to smell their own farts in their tightly sealed echo chambers.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 11, 2020, 02:06:21 PM
SFIrish got a big win at her city council meeting on Monday. I won't bother with what it was about, but I will say this: she put a ton of effort into talking to people on both sides of the issue to get a sense for its importance and its impact, she reminded folks from both sides to come to the meeting and comment, despite knowing which side she agreed with, she put a lot of work into studying data on the issue, she put a lot of effort into crafting her comments, and she won--winning over the undecided swing vote in an acrimonious debate, despite him leaning pretty strongly the other way a few days before.

I say this not only because I'm proud of her, but also because that swing vote probably wasn't swayed as much by her as he was by the people who showed up to comment (via Zoom, as is the way right now--they didn't even need to leave their dwelling). Showing up to comment to the decision makers still matters in a democracy, probably more than anything else. Certainly a lot more than ranting on Facebook, Twitter, or even CFB51.com. So it probably wasn't her words at the meeting, but it was her huge effort to get people to show up that mattered.

And the denouement? Despite all the research, talking--and listening--to both sides, etc., people unhappy with the decision think it's mindless, national talking points that drove the vote, and are more than happy to say so. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 11, 2020, 02:53:13 PM
2020, probably best in hindsight.
The Mayans were 8 years off.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 11, 2020, 02:58:55 PM
you will never see that on CNN
Why even specify CNN, you won't see it on any major news channel?

Good news doesn't make the news because it's the default, thankfully.  A pandemic makes the news because there aren't pandemics continuously happening all over the world.  There aren't magnitude-8.5 earthquakes all the time, nor unarmed people being murdered by police all the time.  

It's a good thing.

Seriously, if we all lived in an apolcalyptic hellscape, the news WOULD be mostly feel-good stories, because they'd be the exception.


It doesn't make our news any easier to swallow, but it makes sense.  Personally, I think the 24/7 news channels' default should be to not exist, but only pop up for major, ongoing things.....kind of like those Halloween stores.

CNN has no reason to exist unless a major earthquake hits, or a novel covid virus happens, or there's a massive tsunami.  And even then, they should exist for no more than a week or so.  After a month, if it's still a thing, it can pop back up for another week.  


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 11, 2020, 03:01:30 PM
And if you deem it a 'freedom of speech' issue, fine, but these channels are actively harming our society.  Regardless of which one you watch, you can admit that.


I find it akin to yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater.  Your free speech doesn't include a radically-slanted reporting (a little) and commentating (mostly) of the news 24 hours a day.  

Hell, it'd be fun to consolidate them onto one channel.......5:00-6:00 CNN, 6:00-7:00 FoxNews, etc.  That'd make for some interesting ratings graphs.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 11, 2020, 03:28:48 PM
And if you deem it a 'freedom of speech' issue, fine, but these channels are actively harming our society.  Regardless of which one you watch, you can admit that.


I find it akin to yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater.  Your free speech doesn't include a radically-slanted reporting (a little) and commentating (mostly) of the news 24 hours a day. 

Hell, it'd be fun to consolidate them onto one channel.......5:00-6:00 CNN, 6:00-7:00 FoxNews, etc.  That'd make for some interesting ratings graphs.
I agree they're harming our society.

I disagree with everything that follows. You may not like how they use their speech, but once you put someone in charge of deciding who gets to speak or how, at that point you're subject to THEIR interpretation of what is or isn't good.

Would you want the current administration to have that power? I know I wouldn't.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 11, 2020, 03:33:25 PM
we're doomed

the press sucks, the current administration sucks, and it seems as though the next administration will certainly suck
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 11, 2020, 03:36:22 PM
we're doomed

the press sucks, the current administration sucks, and it seems as though the next administration will certainly suck
Yep. I'd say "burn it all down", but here in California we're already there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 11, 2020, 03:45:26 PM
Yep. I'd say "burn it all down", but here in California we're already there.
oh thats right its time for the annual California burn fest

There are several other states with extensive forests that dont have this annual burn problem

what make California unique is it high winds just wondering
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 11, 2020, 03:46:38 PM
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 11, 2020, 03:58:45 PM
oh thats right its time for the annual California burn fest

There are several other states with extensive forests that dont have this annual burn problem

what make California unique is it high winds just wondering
It's not just California. This stuff happens all over the West. But California is such a large and populous state, and due to crowding pushes straight up to (and sometimes into) the wooded foothills, that when we get big fires they often are in close proximity to neighborhoods. So we get a huge amount of coverage for our fires that the rest of the West often doesn't. 

I don't know enough about forestry and forest fires to give much beyond that, other than that much of Western US is basically high desert, so during the dry summer months there's nothing providing moisture to be a brake on burning.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 11, 2020, 04:09:17 PM
Yeah, we have had multiple wildfires around here
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 11, 2020, 04:12:18 PM
not on the news
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 11, 2020, 04:25:22 PM
not on the news
according to the news the only place they keep having out of control fires is California
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 11, 2020, 04:29:50 PM
just got called by a pollster which was done by a machine

anyway I pushed the buttons that indicated I was a progressive young Black female

and I thought Trump was a very good president and I would vote for him

why you shouldnt trust polls
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 11, 2020, 04:39:21 PM
oh thats right its time for the annual California burn fest

There are several other states with extensive forests that dont have this annual burn problem

what make California unique is it high winds just wondering
All of the Western States have forest fires--most annually. One of my Badger buddy's has a son who is a firejumper. He spends fire season every year based in Colorado and going where needed most in the Rockies. Then he spends the winter and spring in Wisconsin. A few months after I left active duty, my last division was sent to Montana to fight the fires there.

So it's all western states: Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Utah, Colorado, Nevada, Arizona, and New Mexico. California is the biggest "western" state by far (excluding Alaska), and among all states, only Alaska and Texas have more forest land. Also, Alaska and Texas are much wetter. California typically gets very little rainfall after April and until at least October. As you can see in the following graphic, California actually has a lower wildfire intensity over the last 30 years than several other western states.

 (https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/facts-statistics-wildfires)https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/WildfiresUS.pdf (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/WildfiresUS.pdf)

And yes, as Bwar pointed out, California has expensive housing that has recently been too close to fires.

Some good statistics here: https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/facts-statistics-wildfires (https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/facts-statistics-wildfires)

However, half of California forest land is under federal management (this is true in most of the west), and many of the worst fires have been on federal land, so to the extent management is an issue, it's generally federal management that's the question.

Critically, over the last few decades, California has been getting hotter and drier--and this year we had the added fun of lightning during our summer months, something that is very rare here. It's almost as if the climate is changing.

So why do you hear about California? Because it's drier and hotter, but also because it's bigger.

As for the current fires, I think Oregon has the worst of it right now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 11, 2020, 04:45:05 PM
All of the Western States have forest fires--most annually. One of my Badger buddy's has a son who is a firejumper. He spends fire season every year based in Colorado and going where needed most in the Rockies. Then he spends the winter and spring in Wisconsin. A few months after I left active duty, my last division was sent to Montana to fight the fires there.

...

As for the current fires, I think Oregon has the worst of it right now.
BTW I mentioned my BIL's house and farm in Oregon. We *think* it ended up safe from the fire. Obviously they haven't been back to check, but the fire expansion has been in the opposite direction. 

He is the one who apparently didn't get enough adrenaline as a Navy SEAL so up until about a year and half ago was a fireman, and in this time of year he would normally be out fighting wildfires. And they would travel all over the West doing so.

I'd also mention that one of our utilities (PG&E) has been known to be very lax on maintenance, such as clearing trees around power lines. They've been recently pissing off homeowners by cutting power and causing blackouts during times of high fire danger rather than clearing the brush which could ignite during high winds. They're not very well liked...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 11, 2020, 04:46:53 PM
https://www.predictiveservices.nifc.gov/outlooks/month1_outlook.png (https://www.predictiveservices.nifc.gov/outlooks/month1_outlook.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 11, 2020, 04:47:17 PM
utility companies are evil
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 11, 2020, 04:48:24 PM
Any idea why the Portland area is getting hit so hard right now? I thought their weather was closer to that of Seattle, and much more rainy than anyone inland behind a range of foothills...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 11, 2020, 04:51:15 PM
Where I live PG&E is basically Public Enemy #1. After incinerating 50 houses and 8 people by not maintaining their gas pipelines, then likely causing the Camp Fire by not maintaining power lines, which killed 85 people and wiped the city of Paradise off the map, it's hard to find much sympathy for PG&E around here. On the other hand, people want their lights to turn on when they flick the switch.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 11, 2020, 04:53:07 PM
the people should unite cities and counties, go to wind and solar power
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 11, 2020, 04:59:16 PM
Any idea why the Portland area is getting hit so hard right now? I thought their weather was closer to that of Seattle, and much more rainy than anyone inland behind a range of foothills...
It's been hotter, drier, and windier than normal.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 11, 2020, 05:00:49 PM
I Regret To Inform You That The States On Fire Are Not As Important As Pennsylvania And Wisconsin This Year
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 11, 2020, 05:01:02 PM
the people should unite cities and counties, go to wind and solar power
Many cities and counties have done just that, but the power lines are still used to distribute it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 11, 2020, 05:02:48 PM
it's expensive to build new lines, but it's an investment

many don't want to invest in the future long term
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 11, 2020, 05:25:41 PM
Heres something interesting

https://thefederalist.com/2020/09/07/atlantic-editor-concedes-central-claim-of-trump-hit-piece-could-be-wrong/

I guess the unnamed sources plot didnt work
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 11, 2020, 05:27:41 PM
President Trump has reduced our media to Paparazzi.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 11, 2020, 05:28:56 PM
President Trump has reduced our media to Paparazzi.
yep and he really didnt have to work that hard

they hate Trump so much they do it to themselves
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 11, 2020, 06:47:04 PM
President Trump has reduced our media to Paparazzi.
They've always had the Carnival Barker in them scheming for clicks - it didn't take much coercing
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 11, 2020, 07:08:38 PM
https://twitter.com/PuyallupPD/status/1303872192355074049?s=20
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 11, 2020, 07:17:37 PM
Heres something interesting

https://thefederalist.com/2020/09/07/atlantic-editor-concedes-central-claim-of-trump-hit-piece-could-be-wrong/

I guess the unnamed sources plot didnt work
Did you actually read it? Writer with conservative media writes that Atlantic editor "concedes" what everyone else already knew: the stated reason for the cancellation of the trip to the cemetery was the weather and its impact on Marine 1. But nothing about that changes what Trump allegedly said to people about that trip, and why he didn't go. Both of these things can be true at the same time.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 11, 2020, 08:29:15 PM
Did you actually read it? Writer with conservative media writes that Atlantic editor "concedes" what everyone else already knew: the stated reason for the cancellation of the trip to the cemetery was the weather and its impact on Marine 1. But nothing about that changes what Trump allegedly said to people about that trip, and why he didn't go. Both of these things can be true at the same time.
ok whatever you say
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on September 11, 2020, 08:45:45 PM
And we look forward to one of the unnamed sources to come forward.  This story as reported is pathetic.  Its about as reckless and stupid as Rather and CBS' debacle w W and the Natl Guard years ago.  Of course it could be true.    And Web Hubbell could be Chelsea's father.    So exhausting.   I'm so glad I bailed on journalism right after college.  Its such a sad profession right now in many circles.   

Its not hard to cover this guy critically,  but the number of own goals and never mind stories during this era has been staggering. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 11, 2020, 08:47:07 PM
And we look forward to one of the unnamed sources to come forward.  This story as reported is pathetic.  Its about as reckless and stupid as Rather and CBS' debacle w W and the Natl Guard years ago.  Of course it could be true.    And Web Hubbell could be Chelsea's father.    So exhausting.  I'm so glad I bailed on journalism right after college.  Its such a sad profession right now in many circles. 

Its not hard to cover this guy critically,  but the number of own goals and never mind stories during this era has been staggering.


It was confirmed by several sources. You can believe what you like - blaming the media for reporting what sources close to the president tell them is silly.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 11, 2020, 08:57:23 PM
And we look forward to one of the unnamed sources to come forward.  This story as reported is pathetic.  Its about as reckless and stupid as Rather and CBS' debacle w W and the Natl Guard years ago.  Of course it could be true.    And Web Hubbell could be Chelsea's father.    So exhausting.  I'm so glad I bailed on journalism right after college.  Its such a sad profession right now in many circles. 

Its not hard to cover this guy critically,  but the number of own goals and never mind stories during this era has been staggering.


yep

these unnamed sources said that the reason he didnt go to the cemetery was because he said he didnt want to go visit losers and that why the trip was cancelled

now the editor says it appears bad weather is the real reason he didnt go so at the very least these unnamed sources told a half lie so why should we believe anything that they were supposed to have said
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 11, 2020, 09:32:19 PM
the media has no morals

pathetic, no code of honor, no self respect, no integrity, no accountability

plain ass bullshit to get clicks or further their agenda
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 11, 2020, 10:04:48 PM
It was confirmed by several sources. You can believe what you like - blaming the media for reporting what sources close to the president tell them is silly.
except when it didnt happen at all

MS Ive got 4 unnamed sources that informed me you robbed a bank last week

it dosent matter whether you say it didnt happen cause by the time I spread this to all media outlets it will be fact
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 11, 2020, 10:28:53 PM
No.

It's still incumbent on you to prove he actually robbed the bank.  WTF fantasyland bullshit are you conjuring here?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 11, 2020, 10:36:13 PM
except when it didnt happen at all

MS Ive got 4 unnamed sources that informed me you robbed a bank last week

it dosent matter whether you say it didnt happen cause by the time I spread this to all media outlets it will be fact
Maximum Withdrawal,where do you think tOSU gets it's bagmen?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 11, 2020, 10:43:06 PM
So... Subject change. CCR has an amazing song... "Fortunate Son"... 

What does it mean? Thematically, what's the message? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 11, 2020, 10:48:10 PM
No.

It's still incumbent on you to prove he actually robbed the bank.  WTF fantasyland bullshit are you conjuring here?
oh reeeeeeeealy then lets have some proof on Atlantic's unnamed sources
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 11, 2020, 11:42:52 PM
So... Subject change. CCR has an amazing song... "Fortunate Son"...

What does it mean? Thematically, what's the message?
https://www.shmoop.com/study-guides/music/fortunate-son/meaning#:~:text=%22Fortunate%20Son%22%20is%20a%20strong,the%20unfortunate%20sons%20in%20America.

"Fortunate Son" is a strong, impassioned statement against the Vietnam War and the political establishment in late-1960s America.


The entire song is built upon the idea that there is as unbridgeable divide that splits the fortunate sons and the unfortunate sons in America.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 12, 2020, 12:11:11 AM
So you'd agree with where that went? 


Quote
The entire song is built upon the idea that there is as unbridgeable divide that splits the fortunate sons and the unfortunate sons in America. For the fortunate sons, "born with silver spoon in hand," life is good. Protected by class privilege and a discriminatory military draft system that favored the wealthy and well educated, they will never have to serve a tour of duty in Vietnam. They have the luxury of seeing the war as nothing more than an abstract idea, something they hear about on the news. They're free to support the war without having to face the consequences.

But for the unfortunate sons of America, who have no inherited wealth or privilege to protect them, the draft is likely to send them off to the jungles of Vietnam to fight and maybe die in a seemingly pointless war against an intractable enemy. Fogerty's lyrics argue that it is the fathers of the fortunate sons—"senators," "millionaires"—who got America entangled in Vietnam, but it is the sons of the powerless—disproportionately poor, black, and brown—who have to pay the ultimate price.
Just asking. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 12, 2020, 01:23:18 AM
oh reeeeeeeealy then lets have some proof on Atlantic's unnamed sources
Precisely.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 12, 2020, 04:46:10 AM
No.

It's still incumbent on you to prove he actually robbed the bank.  WTF fantasyland bullshit are you conjuring here?
You'd need to prove it IFF you were a prosecutor taking him to court with a charge.

In the media, you don't need to prove anything.

Among the "RULES" we used to have around here, one was no profanity.  I'd like to call it a "GUIDELINE" rather than "rule", which sounds draconian.

I figure if I can't express myself well enough without profanity, I should probably work harder on my vocabulary.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 12, 2020, 07:38:33 AM
Precisely.
well thats the whole point to this discussion unnamed sources are not proof at all and are easily used as a tool to deceive

anytime you read an article with an accusation arrived at by unnamed sources you should take a step back and say well without proof I question its credibility

the NY Times should have taught you this
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 12, 2020, 07:48:39 AM
well thats the whole point to this discussion unnamed sources are not proof at all and are easily used as a tool to deceive

anytime you read an article with an accusation arrived at by unnamed sources you should take a step back and say well without proof I question its credibility

the NY Times should have taught you this
This would be easier to take if Trump didn't make it his personal goal to punish named people, and his sycophants ate it up.  For example, remember Alexander Vindman?  Remember how Republicans felt it was their solemn duty to expose the whistleblower?  You can't have that and also want people to stick their neck out for you.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 12, 2020, 08:00:00 AM
I'm not sure how being named is sticking one's neck out, if one is no longer in government employ.

I think everyone still employed and present has said Trump didn't say it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 12, 2020, 08:18:04 AM
I'm not sure how being named is sticking one's neck out, if one is no longer in government employ.

I think everyone still employed and present has said Trump didn't say it.
LOL gee I dunno how could the President of the United States possibly make life difficult for people.  

On a side note, the media often gets blamed for things, but the people get what they want.  People don't want to believe their president is a disrespectful idiot, so they come to his defense - the president could be on tape making these statements and they would still defend him and blame the media.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 12, 2020, 08:20:30 AM
This would be easier to take if Trump didn't make it his personal goal to punish named people, and his sycophants ate it up.  For example, remember Alexander Vindman?  Remember how Republicans felt it was their solemn duty to expose the whistleblower?  You can't have that and also want people to stick their neck out for you.
Except here the unnamed sources are not reporting anything that was a crime

the sole purpose was to sully the President's reputation and relationship with the military for political purposes

they dont get whistle blower protection
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 12, 2020, 08:21:38 AM
LOL gee I dunno how could the President of the United States possibly make life difficult for people. 

On a side note, the media often gets blamed for things, but the people get what they want.  People don't want to believe their president is a disrespectful idiot, so they come to his defense - the president could be on tape making these statements and they would still defend him and blame the media. 
all pure opinion which you are welcome to
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 12, 2020, 08:23:48 AM
Except here the unnamed sources are not reporting anything that was a crime

the sole purpose was to sully the President's reputation and relationship with the military for political purposes

they dont get whistle blower protection

Is telling people what the president says and does "sullying his reputation for political purposes" ?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 12, 2020, 08:27:54 AM
Is telling people what the president says and does "sullying his reputation for political purposes" ?
in this case it was especially if untrue
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 12, 2020, 08:41:07 AM
LOL gee I dunno how could the President of the United States possibly make life difficult for people. 

On a side note, the media often gets blamed for things, but the people get what they want.  People don't want to believe their president is a disrespectful idiot, so they come to his defense - the president could be on tape making these statements and they would still defend him and blame the media. 
All kinds of folks blame Trump for all kinds of things with no obvious ramifications beyond being yelled at by Trump on occasion.

I simply do not trust "unnamed sources" about anything.  Maybe they are right.  Maybe not, I don't believe them without names, and then I have some basis to evaluate their credibility versus other named sources.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 12, 2020, 09:06:35 AM
Heres something interesting

https://thefederalist.com/2020/09/07/atlantic-editor-concedes-central-claim-of-trump-hit-piece-could-be-wrong/

I guess the unnamed sources plot didnt work
You could tell it was BS.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 12, 2020, 09:10:35 AM
No.

It's still incumbent on you to prove he actually robbed the bank.  WTF fantasyland bullshit are you conjuring here?
The Atlantic will publish it, and it will be true. Sources told me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 12, 2020, 09:19:44 AM
All kinds of folks blame Trump for all kinds of things with no obvious ramifications beyond being yelled at by Trump on occasion.


Just Google "Trump critics who have received death threats" and you'll see some obvious ramifications from his supporters when he yells at people on Twitter. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 12, 2020, 09:26:00 AM
Just Google "Trump critics who have received death threats" and you'll see some obvious ramifications from his supporters when he yells at people on Twitter.
point being that you can allege anything you want to by just saying the sources are unnamed

the American voter can see right through this latest attempt by the dems to separate Trump from his base

there will be another one next week and another the week after that

hey dems try to get your candidate to answer reporter questions without being told ahead of time what the questions are and have the answer put on a teleprompter 

thats just plane scary
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 12, 2020, 09:26:29 AM
Just Google "Trump critics who have received death threats" and you'll see some obvious ramifications from his supporters when he yells at people on Twitter.
Then google "trump supporters who have actually been attacked" and call it good. But don't forget to google "Maxine f'ing Waters" while you're at it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 12, 2020, 09:27:23 AM
There are millions of Trump critics, including me.  I'm fine with having my name associated with my criticisms.

If it's important, and I know of it, I'm going to put my name out there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 12, 2020, 09:42:15 AM
You could tell it was BS.
The very idea of Trump calling people losers or suckers is an affront to all we know about him
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 12, 2020, 09:49:18 AM
The very idea of Trump calling people losers or suckers is an affront to all we know about him
Those who cross or disparage him get that treatment. It's not appropriate for the POTUS to play in a sandbox. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 12, 2020, 10:08:36 AM
So you'd agree with where that went?

Just asking.

I didn't really read what ever you are referring to - just answered your question
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 12, 2020, 10:32:00 AM
I didn't really read what ever you are referring to - just answered your question
Understood. I just thought this (https://www.brooklynvegan.com/john-fogerty-on-trumps-use-of-fortunate-son-confounding-to-say-the-least/) was strange and thought I'd ask about the meaning of the song first. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 12, 2020, 10:34:49 AM
The very idea of Trump calling people losers or suckers is an affront to all we know about him

The idea is an affront?  To all we know about him?

I don't follow what you mean here at all.  


What we know about him is that he is apt to call people names.  That isn't an "idea", it's a fact.  It may be an affront to whatever, but not to all we know about him.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 12, 2020, 10:49:32 AM
The idea is an affront?  To all we know about him?

I don't follow what you mean here at all. 


What we know about him is that he is apt to call people names.  That isn't an "idea", it's a fact.  It may be an affront to whatever, but not to all we know about him.
the main point is he was supposed to have said what he said about the military which aside from John McCain is very unlike him

He calls folks losers all the time and is generally right but not the military

He does not have a track record of calling the military names 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 12, 2020, 10:53:24 AM
The idea is an affront?  To all we know about him?
I think Sam meant the opposite. 

Like the time I said New Zealand was better able to control influx of Coronavirus because they were landlocked. Obviously I meant the opposite. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 12, 2020, 10:57:17 AM
I'm confused.  Anyway, I personally don't rely on "unnamed sources" for anything more than a slight maybe, and if the assertion is contradicted by named sources, I tend to discount it.

I think many folks believe what they want to believe and then just pay little attention to the remainder, or something like that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 12, 2020, 11:07:13 AM
I don't care if you like him (which would be weird), hate him, or indifferent to him, you have to admit that he was NEVER going to get a fair shake in the media or in DC, in general. He's an outsider.

He was not the chosen one by the media, and was also not the chosen one in his own party*. 

Add those up and you get what we have today.


* The POTUS is a Republican = Bernie is a Democrat.


I notice if you take the "TU" out of POTUS, you get POS. That has fit very well, since January 2013. Very sad.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 12, 2020, 11:17:04 AM
well if POS keeps brokering these peace deals the dems wont have any more wars to fight

bummer for them
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 12, 2020, 11:22:52 AM
POS's agenda aligns with mine more the the other viable choice. It is what it is.

Peace deals are really good. I want to see more of them, and I want to see and end to our relationship with China. With "friends" like them, who needs enemies?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 12, 2020, 11:34:35 AM
I said it a minute ago its alleged that Biden knows the press questions in advance and puts the answers on his teleprompter 

if true this is eye opening and very very scary

why would the media try to hide this mans mental condition from the American public
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 12, 2020, 11:56:09 AM
I said it a minute ago its alleged that Biden knows the press questions in advance and puts the answers on his teleprompter
Maybe the allegations would have more credibility if they were from unnamed sources ....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 12, 2020, 11:56:34 AM
Syracuse plays at UNC in 4 minutes, that's the only game I see worth any of my time.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 12, 2020, 12:05:15 PM
Syracuse plays at UNC in 4 minutes, that's the only game I see worth any of my time.
I'll be curious if there are any kneeling etc in any of the games today
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 12, 2020, 12:13:01 PM
Maybe the allegations would have more credibility if they were from unnamed sources ....
... or any sources.  It's the same old thing - a report from various unnamed sources can't compete with just general internet conspiracy theories.  Then we wonder why "the media" doesn't spend more time sourcing their stuff.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 12, 2020, 12:17:11 PM
... or any sources.  It's the same old thing - a report from various unnamed sources can't compete with just general internet conspiracy theories.  Then we wonder why "the media" doesn't spend more time sourcing their stuff. 
easier to just make things up
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on September 12, 2020, 12:28:14 PM
"If this ain't a mess, it'll do until the mess gets here."...

When I was a kid up and perhaps as long as to around Y2k, the differences between left and right hinged on a few key issues.  Folks felt strongly about what they believed, but it didn't sever relationships or turn into fights.  The sentiment seemed "well, let's just see what everyone else thinks come time to vote."....

I miss those days.  Badly.

As a direct point about the current, uh, contest?  I can't wrap my brain around how badly Trump is hated by the left and then the left presents Biden as the answer?  Or better said, Harris, as the response... its one thing to criticize actions and positions when the group complaining has a better plan... its an altogether 'nother thing to complain when no better solution is offered. 

Granddaddy said "boy, if someone is trying to get an emotional reaction from you then you're being manipulated."  For over four years now the system has tried to make me hate Trump, and who is a man far from lovable anyway.... why?  When it comes down to it, the only differences I see with his policy and others is that he actually moves on them.... what i see of the others on both sides of the aisles is posturing and promises that are never fulfilled.... or, rarely so.  The same old emotionally tickling topics are massaged to gain support and topics that have never been resolved in my lifetime...

But that is just arguing to a predestined conclusion, I fear. 

The ONE thing I can't get past is Hillary stating in message to DNC heads "if that ****** wins, we're all going to hang from nooses.".... That exposed comment tells all.  I'll hold my nose and vote for whomever runs against that machine.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 12, 2020, 12:49:19 PM
"If this ain't a mess, it'll do until the mess gets here."...

When I was a kid up and perhaps as long as to around Y2k, the differences between left and right hinged on a few key issues.  Folks felt strongly about what they believed, but it didn't sever relationships or turn into fights.  The sentiment seemed "well, let's just see what everyone else thinks come time to vote."....

I miss those days.  Badly.

As a direct point about the current, uh, contest?  I can't wrap my brain around how badly Trump is hated by the left and then the left presents Biden as the answer?  Or better said, Harris, as the response... its one thing to criticize actions and positions when the group complaining has a better plan... its an altogether 'nother thing to complain when no better solution is offered. 

Granddaddy said "boy, if someone is trying to get an emotional reaction from you then you're being manipulated."  For over four years now the system has tried to make me hate Trump, and who is a man far from lovable anyway.... why?  When it comes down to it, the only differences I see with his policy and others is that he actually moves on them.... what i see of the others on both sides of the aisles is posturing and promises that are never fulfilled.... or, rarely so.  The same old emotionally tickling topics are massaged to gain support and topics that have never been resolved in my lifetime...

But that is just arguing to a predestined conclusion, I fear. 

The ONE thing I can't get past is Hillary stating in message to DNC heads "if that ****** wins, we're all going to hang from nooses.".... That exposed comment tells all.  I'll hold my nose and vote for whomever runs against that machine.
I dont think youre alone

all I see from the republicans is positive

all I hear from the dems is how bad Trump is and no positive

I still dont think the dems will let Biden debate
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on September 12, 2020, 12:51:41 PM
I'm not sure why anyone would blame "the media" for people hating Trump when a lot of the hate is sourced from things Trump does and says directly.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 12, 2020, 01:02:00 PM
I'm not sure why anyone would blame "the media" for people hating Trump when a lot of the hate is sourced from things Trump does and says directly.
I dont blame the media for hating Trump I mean considering the Media is in large part an extension of the DNC its very understandable 

Most of the hate Trump issues is towards anyone that has already taken a shot at him and that includes the media and politicians

Trump is a fighter and refuses to be pushed around and the media has never learned this

if you swing at Trump he will return the favor very quickly and the media just has never learned this

they cant take him down and its driving them mad
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 12, 2020, 01:47:05 PM
the media vs Trump is similar to the media vs Pelini

the media's job is not to take a side and wage a fight against someone

just because Trump and Pelini don't want to play nice with the media doesn't mean the media has to stoop to their level and fight

but obviously, the media doesn't need to stoop very far because they are scum
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 13, 2020, 11:36:08 AM
https://www.facebook.com/blesseddistress/photos/a.1546854205607603/2449157445377270/
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 13, 2020, 01:03:35 PM
I dislike Trump and it has nothing to do with the media.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 13, 2020, 01:22:20 PM
I dislike Trump and it has nothing to do with the media.
thanks for sharing


I dont like beets and nope media had nothing to do with that
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 13, 2020, 01:29:53 PM
I don't get this line of logic:



Trump could have avoided a lot of the media attacks by, you know, being a genuine empathetic human being who acts like the President, not a tabloid editor. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 13, 2020, 01:33:49 PM
thanks for sharing



You're most welcome.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 13, 2020, 01:34:54 PM
I don't get this line of logic:


  • POTUS does/says something horrible.
  • The media points to it and says "WTF???"
  • POTUS claims the media is attacking him and has it out for him.
  • POTUS' supporters hears are all aflutter because "at least he fights back".

Trump could have avoided a lot of the media attacks by, you know, being a genuine empathetic human being who acts like the President, not a tabloid editor.



Although I totally agree with this, he also could have avoided a lot of the media attacks by being a liberal Democrat.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 13, 2020, 01:48:46 PM
Although I totally agree with this, he also could have avoided a lot of the media attacks by being a liberal Democrat.
I do agree with that. I think much of the left would just be silently horrified in that case, like much of the right is now. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 13, 2020, 01:50:11 PM


I don't get this line of logic:


  • POTUS does/says something horrible.
  • The media points to it and says "WTF???"
  • POTUS claims the media is attacking him and has it out for him.
  • POTUS' supporters hears are all aflutter because "at least he fights back".

Trump could have avoided a lot of the media attacks by, you know, being a genuine empathetic human being who acts like the President, not a tabloid editor.


POTUS helps bring peace to the Middle East
Media largely ignores it
Media runs fake news like POTUS hates the military
Media runs fake news like POTUS should have acted quicker to stop the virus
Media promotes Russian hoax
Yes Trump does fight back

I could list at least 20 fake news stores here but just dont have the time
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 13, 2020, 02:30:16 PM
Trump could have avoided a lot of the media attacks by, you know, being a genuine empathetic human being who acts like the President, not a tabloid editor.


I agree, but I also think he would never have been elected President were that the case.  The Folks  were apparently looking for someone who would fight.

We'll see soon enough if They like what they got.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 13, 2020, 02:32:28 PM
https://www.propublica.org/article/they-know-how-to-prevent-megafires-why-wont-anybody-listen?fbclid=IwAR1qQJizz_0nhxmANch06zEEjceWeh6N8WekDHTztqGo1stGrxdOB0opZJQ (https://www.propublica.org/article/they-know-how-to-prevent-megafires-why-wont-anybody-listen?fbclid=IwAR1qQJizz_0nhxmANch06zEEjceWeh6N8WekDHTztqGo1stGrxdOB0opZJQ)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 13, 2020, 03:25:54 PM
https://www.propublica.org/article/they-know-how-to-prevent-megafires-why-wont-anybody-listen?fbclid=IwAR1qQJizz_0nhxmANch06zEEjceWeh6N8WekDHTztqGo1stGrxdOB0opZJQ (https://www.propublica.org/article/they-know-how-to-prevent-megafires-why-wont-anybody-listen?fbclid=IwAR1qQJizz_0nhxmANch06zEEjceWeh6N8WekDHTztqGo1stGrxdOB0opZJQ)


I have that beat.

Don't live where wildfires are an annual occurrence.  
Don't live in flood plains.
Don't live in tornado alleys.  
Don't live on fault lines.
Don't live below sea level near the sea.


Oh wait.....the smartest monkey is too stupid to do those.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 13, 2020, 03:35:38 PM
Most of the land area of the country is subject to some sort of malady, droughts, floods, hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, fires, heat waves, extreme cold ...

I think the main risk around here is tornadoes.  This might be close to as good as it gets.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 13, 2020, 03:46:25 PM
I have that beat.

Don't live where wildfires are an annual occurrence. 
Don't live in flood plains.
Don't live in tornado alleys. 
Don't live on fault lines.
Don't live below sea level near the sea.


Oh wait.....the smartest monkey is too stupid to do those.
Where should we live? 

I'd add "don't live in the desert where you can't survive without outside water and the electricity to have air conditioning". 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 13, 2020, 04:04:30 PM
I dont like beets and nope media had nothing to do with that
Love beets - one of the best things you can eat
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 13, 2020, 04:07:19 PM
Where should we live?
in his apartment that mom/dad or the government provide
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 13, 2020, 04:48:26 PM
Love beets - one of the best things you can eat
why is it that when I hate something its very good for me and when love something its bad for me

one of lifes mysteries
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 13, 2020, 05:58:24 PM
Where should we live?
I'm thinking Austin, Texas, everyone move there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 13, 2020, 06:04:42 PM
I'm thinking Austin, Texas, everyone move there.
move to Austin if you like expensive housing no police force and hot weather
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 13, 2020, 06:06:47 PM
move to Austin if you like expensive housing no police force and hot weather
No tornadoes, no earthquakes, no forest fires ...  but it is full of Longhorn fans, so there is that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 13, 2020, 06:09:28 PM
We get tornadoes, one ripped through a grocery store about two miles from where I currently live.  Tore the roof right off but the employees and customers had shut themselves into the walk in freezer and avoided any injury.

And the forest fires in nearby Bastrop decimated my favorite state park.

But I don't recall any earthquakes so we've got that going for us.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 13, 2020, 06:13:53 PM
Was there beer in the walk in freezer?

Good move by those folks.

Know what Phil Sheridan said about Texas?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 13, 2020, 06:18:58 PM
I'm assuming so.

Yup.

No, but I'm guessing you're gonna tell me?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 13, 2020, 06:29:59 PM
“If I owned Texas and Hell, I would rent out Texas and live in Hell”

― General Philip Henry Sheridan
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 13, 2020, 06:30:09 PM
It is of course possible to build a house out of fireproof materials.

But where's the fun in that?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 13, 2020, 07:11:26 PM
“If I owned Texas and Hell, I would rent out Texas and live in Hell”

General Philip Henry Sheridan


I appreciate his support.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 13, 2020, 07:26:39 PM
“If I owned Texas and Hell, I would rent out Texas and live in Hell”

General Philip Henry Sheridan



But Tanya Tucker says that Texas is better than Heaven.

That's even loftier praise than John Denver anointed upon West Virginia, which he dubbed as merely being Almost Heaven.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 13, 2020, 07:49:53 PM
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-negotiate-third-term-in-office-2020-9

He's such a joker. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 13, 2020, 08:20:54 PM
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-negotiate-third-term-in-office-2020-9

He's such a joker.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ja8azjMbQ5k/maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 13, 2020, 08:25:22 PM
he just loves to get into their heads
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 13, 2020, 08:36:53 PM
I'm thinking Austin, Texas, everyone move there.
or Sweden
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 13, 2020, 08:57:08 PM
he just loves to get into their heads
Or after the first dozen or so times he's "joked" about it, maybe this is really how he feels? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 13, 2020, 09:16:55 PM
Or after the first dozen or so times he's "joked" about it, maybe this is really how he feels?
so he got to you too 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 13, 2020, 11:02:42 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtFleyJWGGg&ab_channel=SportsWars
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 13, 2020, 11:17:26 PM
he just loves to get into their heads
Seems like a substandard situation by and large. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 13, 2020, 11:48:38 PM


When I was young I decided I wanted to be a doctor, so I took the entrance exam to go to Medical School.
One of the questions asked of us was to rearrange the letters PNEIS into the name of an important human body part which is most useful when erect
 
Those who answered "spine" are doctors today. The rest of us are still sending jokes via email 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 14, 2020, 12:31:08 AM

When I was young I decided I wanted to be a doctor, so I took the entrance exam to go to Medical School.
One of the questions asked of us was to rearrange the letters PNEIS into the name of an important human body part which is most useful when erect
 
Those who answered "spine" are doctors today. The rest of us are still sending jokes via email

I would have been an email sender
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 14, 2020, 08:14:11 AM
Tanya Tucker is an evil liar.

The generalissimo has it right.  Nobody should move here.

Thank You For Your Support
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 14, 2020, 02:55:31 PM
Smoke from the West Coast has made its way to Wisconsin. Pretty thick haze, not letting the sun through.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 14, 2020, 02:57:53 PM
Smoke from the West Coast has made its way to Wisconsin. Pretty thick haze, not letting the sun through.
theres a lot of speculation that many of these fires were started on purpose
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 14, 2020, 03:10:30 PM
Yes. I read that 4 people have been arrested so far.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 14, 2020, 03:12:36 PM
theres a lot of speculation that many of these fires were started on purpose
I think "many" is where you start getting into QAnon type conspiracy theories. Of course that depends how you define "many".

However, some have already been determined to be arson, and I'm sure some more that haven't yet been classified as such probably are as well. 

But my guess is that it's a very tiny proportion. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 14, 2020, 03:15:27 PM
I think "many" is where you start getting into QAnon type conspiracy theories. Of course that depends how you define "many".

However, some have already been determined to be arson, and I'm sure some more that haven't yet been classified as such probably are as well.

But my guess is that it's a very tiny proportion.
why do you feel that way

is it just a gut feeling that nobody in their right mind would want to harm the US

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 14, 2020, 03:15:56 PM
I think "many" is where you start getting into QAnon type conspiracy theories. Of course that depends how you define "many".

However, some have already been determined to be arson, and I'm sure some more that haven't yet been classified as such probably are as well.

But my guess is that it's a very tiny proportion.
Any is too many.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 14, 2020, 03:22:36 PM
undisclosed sources have gone on record stating over half of these fires are arson
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 14, 2020, 03:24:46 PM
Hah!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 14, 2020, 03:31:56 PM
why do you feel that way

is it just a gut feeling that nobody in their right mind would want to harm the US
No... But despite my depression and anger with humanity these days (SMOD2020!), it's more about the general apathy and confirmation bias world we live in.

At root, I still honestly believe that MOST people are good in their core. While there are some sociopaths in this world who would do such a thing, I honestly believe their numbers to be low.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 14, 2020, 03:38:20 PM
No... But despite my depression and anger with humanity these days (SMOD2020!), it's more about the general apathy and confirmation bias world we live in.

At root, I still honestly believe that MOST people are good in their core. While there are some sociopaths in this world who would do such a thing, I honestly believe their numbers to be low.
lets hope your right
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 14, 2020, 05:05:41 PM
lets hope your right
I think he is.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 14, 2020, 06:16:34 PM
https://youtu.be/xCc-RWIp7XU
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 14, 2020, 08:45:44 PM
No... But despite my depression and anger with humanity these days (SMOD2020!), it's more about the general apathy and confirmation bias world we live in.

At root, I still honestly believe that MOST people are good in their core. While there are some sociopaths in this world who would do such a thing, I honestly believe their numbers to be low.


Agreed. It would be totally out of character for the Molotov cocktail crew to commit multiple acts of arson. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 14, 2020, 09:09:46 PM

Agreed. It would be totally out of character for the Molotov cocktail crew to commit multiple acts of arson.
It would. I might understand if they were torching Koch Industries HQ, or a Nike store, or a major bank. But starting forest fires? Where's the antifa / anti-capitalist motive? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 14, 2020, 09:12:10 PM
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/005/378/worldburn-top.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 14, 2020, 09:13:42 PM
I think he e
https://www.foxnews.com/us/city-of-lynwood-distances-itself-from-city-managers-social-media-post-about-shooting-of-la-county-deputies


i don’t know. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 15, 2020, 08:03:36 AM
It would. I might understand if they were torching Koch Industries HQ, or a Nike store, or a major bank. But starting forest fires? Where's the antifa / anti-capitalist motive?
Fear spreading, in that if there are too many, our capitalist government can't keep up?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 15, 2020, 08:22:59 AM
Fear spreading, in that if there are too many, our capitalist government can't keep up?
Possible. Though it feels like a lot of the fear spreading is being done by the people who dislike antifa the most. 

Basically, a lot of folks want to be a certain kind of afraid to make the world make more sense in a certain kind of ways. It’s a bipartisan phenomenon.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 15, 2020, 08:59:46 AM
(https://kurtbrundage.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/banner_fearmindkiller.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 15, 2020, 09:32:19 AM
I dunno, it's dry as Hell here with temps over 100, and we don't have any fires. Not much of an Antifa presence either. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 15, 2020, 10:08:19 AM


https://twitter.com/PortlandPolice/status/1305485979982147592?s=20

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 15, 2020, 10:25:49 AM
I dunno, it's dry as Hell here with temps over 100, and we don't have any fires. Not much of an Antifa presence either.
Based on where I think you are, I don't think y'all have many trees. Shoot, you might have more Antifa than trees. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 15, 2020, 10:35:54 AM
We don't have many trees, but we do have cheat grass and sock weeds. We do get wild fires. There was one in July that wiped out about 800 acres. 

But nothing like this, where there are scores of fires all at once, with several people getting arrested for starting them, while the govt gaslights us and blames it on the climate change boogeyman. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 15, 2020, 12:26:17 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/UbaHXhP.png)

He's just trying to get in our heads again, by having his campaign suggest we support "our" troops... The ones who fly the MiG-29 and carry AK-47s, right? 

Or is this just an application of Hanlon's Razor? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 15, 2020, 01:03:03 PM
[img width=500 height=332.995]https://i.imgur.com/UbaHXhP.png[/img]

He's just trying to get in our heads again, by having his campaign suggest we support "our" troops... The ones who fly the MiG-29 and carry AK-47s, right?

Or is this just an application of Hanlon's Razor?
say what?

longhorn not understand

what do you mean 

just lower yourself down to our level and speak plain American






Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 15, 2020, 01:13:10 PM
say what?

longhorn not understand

what do you mean

just lower yourself down to our level and speak plain American
The Trump campaign released a "support our troops" campaign ad which featured soldiers and fighter jets flying overhead.

The jet is the Russian MiG-29. One of the soldiers is apparently carrying an AK-74. 

Turns out they used a stock photo and nobody thought to question whether the airplane or soldiers were American troops. 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/14/trump-ad-asks-people-to-support-the-troops-but-it-uses-a-picture-of-russian-jets-414883

Hanlon's Razor: Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity. 

I'm guessing this was just a stupid mistake. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 15, 2020, 01:14:42 PM
the Russians are trying to get Trump elected again!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 15, 2020, 01:24:56 PM
Russian bots do love them some Trump, that's for sure!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 15, 2020, 01:30:45 PM
The Trump campaign released a "support our troops" campaign ad which featured soldiers and fighter jets flying overhead.

The jet is the Russian MiG-29. One of the soldiers is apparently carrying an AK-74.

Turns out they used a stock photo and nobody thought to question whether the airplane or soldiers were American troops.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/14/trump-ad-asks-people-to-support-the-troops-but-it-uses-a-picture-of-russian-jets-414883

Hanlon's Razor: Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.

I'm guessing this was just a stupid mistake.
nope when Trump wins reelection he will immediately surrender the US to the Soviets

you stumbled onto his secret
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 15, 2020, 01:31:52 PM
So this is super-duper. Last day for me is Friday.

https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/update-woman-arrested-near-i-94-prior-to-downtown-protest-she-others-were-in-cars/article_bd374da7-cab6-5e06-ace5-b027f0e7c711.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1 (https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/update-woman-arrested-near-i-94-prior-to-downtown-protest-she-others-were-in-cars/article_bd374da7-cab6-5e06-ace5-b027f0e7c711.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 15, 2020, 01:36:30 PM
I just feel like the campaign is phoning it in at this point. They know that absolutely nothing they do will change anyone's mind, so they've got a great comedy of errors...




Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 15, 2020, 01:36:53 PM
Good luck badge on gettingTFO.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 15, 2020, 01:38:18 PM
say what?

longhorn not understand

what do you mean

just lower yourself down to our level and speak plain American







This elitist attitude looking down on real Americans must not stand. Just sickening.

;)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 15, 2020, 01:38:24 PM
the Russians are trying to get Trump elected again!
No, don't you remember? It was Ukraine. Putin said he didn't do it, and by god Trump believes him.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 15, 2020, 01:38:45 PM
I just feel like the campaign is phoning it in at this point. They know that absolutely nothing they do will change anyone's mind, so they've got a great comedy of errors...


  • Playing "Fortunate Son", a song criticizing rich young men of privilege being able to avoid the draft, as entrance music for someone who famously used his wealth and privilege to secure 5 deferments from the draft.
  • Releasing a "Support our troops" ad showing the fighter jet and the weaponry that our enemies use rather than our own. Given that his supporters are the ones who know their guns, you would think someone would notice it... And they now have.



yep no way Trump wins this one
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 15, 2020, 01:40:31 PM
yep no way Trump wins this one
I mean, you can phone it in and still win. Last time the now-president had already started pivoting toward starting a TV network. And here we are. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 15, 2020, 01:45:32 PM
Russian bots do love them some Trump, that's for sure!
No doubt.  Fortunately for Biden the Chinese bots outnumber the Russian bots by a big margin.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on September 15, 2020, 01:47:44 PM
He didn't say they know they won't win, he said they knows they aren't changing anyone's mind.  I think that's true.

I think that is generally true with incumbents, but particularly in this case, Ican't believe anyone who hasn't already made up their mind on him by this point is going to be swayed in either direction by anything he does over the next 7 weeks.

It's basically whether the Democratic base is energized enough to vote, and whether Biden can make fiscal conservatives who dislike Trump comfortable enough to vote for him
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 15, 2020, 01:51:54 PM
yep no way Trump wins this one
Seriously, does it not irk you a little when he or his campaign does stuff like this? 

When he's catching flak* heat for allegedly saying things about the troops he's playing entrance music that is a song criticizing rich people who avoided serving?

I mean, I consider a military draft to be immoral. You're not the property of your government to be thrown in front of bullets whenever they say "go". 

But to play that song, given his history of wealth and privilege, is just politically tone deaf. And his supporters--who DO support the troops and many of whom served--don't seem to even care.

I don't get it.

 * Sorry, President Bone Spurs would never be in any area where he might catch flak. Getting shot at is for suckers. So I shouldn't use that term.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 15, 2020, 01:52:59 PM
He didn't say they know they won't win, he said they knows they aren't changing anyone's mind.  I think that's true.

I think that is generally true with incumbents, but particularly in this case, Ican't believe anyone who hasn't already made up their mind on him by this point is going to be swayed in either direction by anything he does over the next 7 weeks.

I used to think his boast that he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and not lose a single supporter was hyperbole. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 15, 2020, 01:54:28 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/TrumpJew/status/1305634106592690178

Hmm. Is this Hanlon’s Razor or insight to the plans of the DNC?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 15, 2020, 02:02:07 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/TrumpJew/status/1305634106592690178

Hmm. Is this Hanlon’s Razor or insight to the plans of the DNC?
Wouldn't surprise me if the Dems are worried about Biden's health. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 15, 2020, 02:10:35 PM
Wouldn't surprise me if the Dems are worried about Biden's health.
Me either. I think the concern among conservatives is that this has never seriously been a Trump vs Biden election.  Biden is just the most electable name at the top of the ticket for what seems to be an increasingly left moving Democratic Party.

This is much more a Trump vs Harris race, imo.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 15, 2020, 02:11:24 PM
I've told many that a vote for Biden is a vote for Harris. I'll stand by that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 15, 2020, 02:14:31 PM
This is a Trump vs ABT race, IMHO. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 15, 2020, 02:14:55 PM
I've told many that a vote for Biden is a vote for Harris. I'll stand by that.
That’s understating it.  A vote for Biden is a vote for Harris, Pelosi, Schumer, Nadler, Schiff, the Squad, and Bernie.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 15, 2020, 02:15:24 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G87UXIH8Lzo&ab_channel=MarkConklin
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 15, 2020, 02:15:30 PM
This is a Trump vs ABT race, IMHO.
ABT?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 15, 2020, 02:18:05 PM
Seriously, does it not irk you a little when he or his campaign does stuff like this?


doesnt it irk you that Biden has reporters questions fed to his staff ahead of time and puts his answers on a teleprompter for him to read a response to?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 15, 2020, 02:23:29 PM
ABT?
Anyone But Trump.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 15, 2020, 02:24:33 PM
So this is super-duper. Last day for me is Friday.

https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/update-woman-arrested-near-i-94-prior-to-downtown-protest-she-others-were-in-cars/article_bd374da7-cab6-5e06-ace5-b027f0e7c711.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1 (https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/update-woman-arrested-near-i-94-prior-to-downtown-protest-she-others-were-in-cars/article_bd374da7-cab6-5e06-ace5-b027f0e7c711.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1)

Authorities arrested the woman following the 5:30 p.m. traffic stop just east of the interstate, according to Wisconsin State Patrol Sgt. Richard Krisher. Protesters showed up at the scene while the traffic stops were being conducted, he said. The scene was cleared about 45 minutes later.

He said the woman, who was also the driver of the vehicle, was taken into custody for carrying a concealed weapon, a 9mm pistol, possession of marijuana and resisting arrest. Krisher said additional charges including that the woman had open intoxicants in the vehicle and possessed no driver’s license, no registration and no insurance, were also recommended. She was later released on bond.

didn't shoot her in the back for resisting?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 15, 2020, 02:29:26 PM
Seriously, does it not irk you a little when he or his campaign does stuff like this?

it irks me a little that almost every politician's campaign not well thought out at the least and damn dumb for the most part.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 15, 2020, 02:29:28 PM
Anyone But Trump.
I think there is a lot of validity to that. 

some of that is probably appropriate too. On the other hand some of it is very misplaced because it pre-existed before he ever had an opportunity.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 15, 2020, 02:30:15 PM
That’s understating it.  A vote for Biden is a vote for Harris, Pelosi, Schumer, Nadler, Schiff, the Squad, and Bernie. 
A nine-man rotation for the presidency? That would reduce the stress a little I think, give or take the infighting. 

This line of thinking is health-based? It's weird how that storyline has developed despite the relative age gap and styles of speaking. 

(It also speaks to the conservative media's deft skill in boogieman-ing a lot of folks. I suppose there's an equivalent on the other side, though it probably goes deeper)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 15, 2020, 02:33:38 PM
Seriously, does it not irk you a little when he or his campaign does stuff like this?

I don't like the guy, but not really?

Regan ran with "Born in the USA." It's not an uplifting song about the USA. But it worked. 

If he wins, it didn't hurt. If he loses, it probably wasn't the reason. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 15, 2020, 03:18:00 PM
It is amazing what the TDS crowd thinks is going to be that one thing that will finally drive Trump supporters Left. 

Anyone that would change their vote based on some botched campaign poster needs to have their head examined. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 15, 2020, 03:33:54 PM
many voters need to have their heads examined

that why the stupid campaign ads work - air heads
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 15, 2020, 03:37:38 PM
doesnt it irk you that Biden has reporters questions fed to his staff ahead of time and puts his answers on a teleprompter for him to read a response to?
If true, yes. 
It is amazing what the TDS crowd thinks is going to be that one thing that will finally drive Trump supporters Left.

Anyone that would change their vote based on some botched campaign poster needs to have their head examined.
Oh, I don't think anything is going to drive them away from Trump. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 15, 2020, 03:41:15 PM
Correct. 

People like Trump because he is the antithesis of the White Leftist power structure that runs the Western world, controlling the media, academia and silicon valley. 

They aren't going to just give up and assimilate to the borg, just because he makes a gaffe here and there. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 15, 2020, 03:50:15 PM
I know... Can you imagine, though, if the Biden campaign released the same poster, with Russian MiGs and Kalashnikov rifles? 

Fox News would be calling it a commie AOC/Squad plot. Or at the very least questioning how they can support our troops when they don't know the difference between American armament and Russian armament.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 15, 2020, 03:58:59 PM
Fox will attack any liberal Democrat for pretty much anything.  The MSM will attack Trump or any conservative Republican for pretty much anything.

So I'm not sure that's even a point worth consideration.

I'll comment that I personally support our military, and I have no idea how to tell whether the armament in that picture is Russian or American, so I don't have an expectation that a marketing company would be able to do so either. 

Should they be more careful in selecting images?  Maybe?  But if I can't tell the difference, then I don't really expect others that are not experts in the field to be able to do so either.  It's a non-issue for me.

I'm not voting for either party, and I'm not voting for either party for reasons I believe to be far more important than images presented in marketing materials.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 15, 2020, 04:02:47 PM
I know... Can you imagine, though, if the Biden campaign released the same poster, with Russian MiGs and Kalashnikov rifles?

Fox News would be calling it a commie AOC/Squad plot. Or at the very least questioning how they can support our troops when they don't know the difference between American armament and Russian armament.



Oh yeah, Leftist politicians are treated really unfairly by the mediots. An entire one mainstream media outlet might actually call him out about it. How terrible. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 15, 2020, 04:12:47 PM
I'm not angry or offended by the poster, BTW. I get a good sense of schadenfreude over it though.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 15, 2020, 04:21:14 PM
these folks putting out campaign ads should be smarter than this, someone should be proofreading/checking these things

but, it's on all campaigns - friggin morons with little hope of doing a solid job - just like the folks they are campaigning for
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 15, 2020, 04:34:07 PM
these folks putting out campaign ads should be smarter than this, someone should be proofreading/checking these things

but, it's on all campaigns - friggin morons with little hope of doing a solid job - just like the folks they are campaigning for
the only ones who care about mistakes in the Trump ads are the left

while the right doesnt want mistakes they realize stuff happens and no mind is changed

frankly Im surprised no one is talking about the maybe mistake Kamala made the other day calling it the Harris administration instead of the Biden administration

she later corrected herself but what a fopa

Some have speculated she did this on purpose to let supporters know she was going to be the real President if elected
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 15, 2020, 04:39:54 PM
A nine-man rotation for the presidency? That would reduce the stress a little I think, give or take the infighting.

This line of thinking is health-based? It's weird how that storyline has developed despite the relative age gap and styles of speaking.

(It also speaks to the conservative media's deft skill in boogieman-ing a lot of folks. I suppose there's an equivalent on the other side, though it probably goes deeper)
And pointing at the media you are probably overthinking this a bit.

all anyone has heard from for four years is trump from the right, and all those characters I just named from the left.  There is nothing new about that.
The only thing that has changed is that we now see with our own eyes and ears a candidate who can barely complete a coherent sentence named Biden. I don’t care what the media says that’s what I see with my own eyes.

it goes back to the same original thing; I wish I could have some personal belief or personal faith in either candidate because if I did that person would get my vote. But I don’t. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 15, 2020, 04:56:09 PM
And pointing at the media you are probably overthinking this a bit.

all anyone has heard from for four years is trump from the right, and all those characters I just named from the left.  There is nothing new about that.
The only thing that has changed is that we now see with our own eyes and ears a candidate who can barely complete a coherent sentence named Biden. I don’t care what the media says that’s what I see with my own eyes.

it goes back to the same original thing; I wish I could have some personal belief or personal faith in either candidate because if I did that person would get my vote. But I don’t. 
as you would expect I think the choice is simple

Trump:
low employment
booming economy
world peace
strong military
GDP continues to increase

Biden:
Harris will be president
take away your guns
higher taxes
stop fracking
higher unemployment
no choice on medical coverage non by employer
defund police
huge increase in illegal immigration
free medical and college for illegal immigrants
GDP drops


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 15, 2020, 04:58:48 PM
the only ones who care about mistakes in the Trump ads are the left


and the only ones who care about mistakes in the Biden or Harris ads are the right

they are all the same.  They are both moronic losers, the left and the right
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 15, 2020, 05:01:12 PM
Biden:
Harris will be president
take away your guns
higher taxes
stop fracking
higher unemployment
no choice on medical coverage non by employer
defund police
huge increase in illegal immigration
free medical and college for illegal immigrants
GDP drops



sorry, I don't believe the bolded will happen
I'm certain guns won't be taken away in the next 4 years
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 15, 2020, 05:06:31 PM
sorry, I don't believe the bolded will happen
I'm certain guns won't be taken away in the next 4 years
you may be right but they will probably have control of all three parts of government and Im just going by what they say they want to do
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 15, 2020, 05:30:46 PM
A concern of mine, should congress and the white house be in blue control, would be the fast track of 2 new states - Puerto Rico and DC.

4 blue senators, off the bat. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 15, 2020, 05:40:55 PM
you may be right but they will probably have control of all three parts of government and Im just going by what they say they want to do
politicians say a lot of stuff that never gets done

the best lie is always........... "we're going to take money from the ultra rich"

never has happened in my lifetime

Bernie might have actually tried it.  Probably why he was kicked to the curb
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 15, 2020, 07:09:53 PM
Eat The Rich

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 15, 2020, 07:34:14 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/O6Xi6pV.jpg)


For those of you who watch the CNN version of the world- there is a historic peace agreement you won’t hear about.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 15, 2020, 08:01:39 PM
I don't like the guy, but not really?

Regan ran with "Born in the USA." It's not an uplifting song about the USA. But it worked.

If he wins, it didn't hurt. If he loses, it probably wasn't the reason.
As I recall he didn't use that in a capaign but mentioned it and Bruce stepped in and said- um,no
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 15, 2020, 08:04:39 PM
Eat The Rich

Better be careful there Dell Boy,unless of course you have a repeater
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 15, 2020, 08:19:11 PM
take one bite now and spit out the rest
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 15, 2020, 08:20:39 PM
Steven Tyler's net worth is 130 million
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 15, 2020, 08:23:50 PM

Hanlon's Razor: Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.

HA!Who's Hanlon? - good one - he gets a Yuengling
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 15, 2020, 08:26:14 PM
Steven Tyler's net worth is 130 million
Are you shyting me?In my next life I'm gonna be a course,crass,condescending Ebola Chimp who screams like a cat in a fan belt
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 15, 2020, 08:29:58 PM
plenty of folks that have more than double that amount that he can munch on

you know the rich that have more than the rich
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 15, 2020, 08:45:14 PM
there are worse ways to pass time than listening to Aerosmith on youtube during a global pandemic
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 15, 2020, 09:06:25 PM
there are worse ways to pass time than listening to Aerosmith on youtube during a global pandemic
Fearless are you drinking your dinner again
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 15, 2020, 09:10:53 PM
not tonight

had water with my marinated chicken breast and prime new york strip

tomorrow night will be budweiser
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 15, 2020, 09:41:30 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ngVza4d.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/a9uk56F.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NaMwAuo.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/oZqzFed.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 15, 2020, 10:12:31 PM
not tonight

had water with my marinated chicken breast and prime new york strip

tomorrow night will be budweiser
well then have a few on me
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 15, 2020, 10:17:34 PM
good idea
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 15, 2020, 10:36:17 PM
not tonight

had water with my marinated chicken breast and prime new york strip

tomorrow night will be budweiser
You feelin' ok?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 15, 2020, 10:44:18 PM
feeling fine

could be better, but fine
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 15, 2020, 10:54:33 PM
feeling fine

could be better, but fine
you look a little pale

might not be getting enough iron
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 15, 2020, 11:05:00 PM
I'll have to chew another can tomorrow evening
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 15, 2020, 11:45:45 PM
I'll have to chew another can tomorrow evening
Aluminium wont do

try a horse shoe
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 16, 2020, 08:01:59 AM
Adult males need almost no iron, generally.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 16, 2020, 08:06:06 AM
Adult males need almost no iron, generally.
Fearless adult?

Ha
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 16, 2020, 08:36:44 AM
well, physically I'm past puberty 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 16, 2020, 08:47:56 AM
you look a little pale

might not be getting enough iron
(https://i.imgur.com/TzSHCOW.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 16, 2020, 10:19:00 AM
perhaps I should stay away from the Pale Ales?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 16, 2020, 10:21:06 AM
Pale ales can be tasty.  Even the original British IPAs can be tasty.

The problems occurred when stupid over the top tasteless Americans in the Pacific Northwest ruined the style by making it unbelievably bitter, and then drinking it immediately instead of letting it mellow for the 4-6 months that the original British IPAs had to mellow out during the sail over to India.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 16, 2020, 10:23:03 AM
I've enjoyed a few

I appreciate the bitterness scale some publish on the menu

I'm not a handsome man to begin with, but a bitter beer face isn't becoming a tall
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 16, 2020, 10:24:56 AM
Pale ales can be tasty.  Even the original British IPAs can be tasty.

The problems occurred when stupid over the top tasteless Americans in the Pacific Northwest ruined the style by making it unbelievably bitter, and then drinking it immediately instead of letting it mellow for the 4-6 months that the original British IPAs had to mellow out during the sail over to India.

Eh. PNW IPAs are too malty. San Diego IPAs are perfect. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 16, 2020, 10:32:00 AM
Eh. PNW IPAs are too malty. San Diego IPAs are perfect.
Gross. 

:)

I have a friend in San Diego that thinks their beer is just the BESTEST EVAH and he used to send me various IPAs and such.  The second or third time I sent him video of me drain-pouring a a Green Flash or Sculpin, he stopped doing that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 16, 2020, 10:47:21 AM
Gross.

:)

I have a friend in San Diego that thinks their beer is just the BESTEST EVAH and he used to send me various IPAs and such.  The second or third time I sent him video of me drain-pouring a a Green Flash or Sculpin, he stopped doing that.
San Diego has phenomenal beer. One of the best areas for beer in the US (CO/PNW/MI/NC are some notable others).

We're of course known for hopping everything to ridiculous levels, but with >100 breweries in the county, there's an enormous amount of variety as well.

And slightly north (Corona), one of my homebrew buddies bought a 50% stake in a brewery and about half of their lineup is lager. His Vienna Lager is outstanding. Maybe next time I get to Austin I'll bring some, since they do limited canning of beer and that's his flagship beer.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 16, 2020, 10:50:47 AM
Gross.

:)

I have a friend in San Diego that thinks their beer is just the BESTEST EVAH and he used to send me various IPAs and such.  The second or third time I sent him video of me drain-pouring a a Green Flash or Sculpin, he stopped doing that.
Ive never had a beer so bad that Id pour it out

course I like Miller Lite so what do I know

when anybody would ask my dad what his favorite beer was hed say which ever one is on special that week
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on September 16, 2020, 11:05:47 AM
Ive never had a beer so bad that Id pour it out

course I like Miller Lite so what do I know

when anybody would ask my dad what his favorite beer was hed say which ever one is on special that week
I've had a couple of beers that were so disgusting I poured them out, but they've been few and far between. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 16, 2020, 11:18:14 AM
San Diego has phenomenal beer. One of the best areas for beer in the US (CO/PNW/MI/NC are some notable others).

We're of course known for hopping everything to ridiculous levels, but with >100 breweries in the county, there's an enormous amount of variety as well.

And slightly north (Corona), one of my homebrew buddies bought a 50% stake in a brewery and about half of their lineup is lager. His Vienna Lager is outstanding. Maybe next time I get to Austin I'll bring some, since they do limited canning of beer and that's his flagship beer.
Oh I know of San Diego's reputation.  That's why my friend insists I should like the stuff he sends.  But that reputation is founded on brutally overhopped beers, so it's clearly not my jam and I don't recognize San Diego as being a particularly good beer-producing city because of that.

I'd certainly give the Vienna style lager a try though.  My favorite brewery in the USA does almost exclusively European styles, which ARE my jam and is precisely why it's my favorite brewery in the USA.  Their Vienna-style lager they've been making for over 20 years, is absolutely delicious, and is my favorite beer they make.



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 16, 2020, 11:39:27 AM
Ive never had a beer so bad that Id pour it out

course I like Miller Lite so what do I know

when anybody would ask my dad what his favorite beer was hed say which ever one is on special that week
well, there isn't much worse than Miller Lite, so............
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 16, 2020, 11:40:52 AM
Skunked beer is a pour out.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 16, 2020, 11:43:38 AM
well, there isn't much worse than Miller Lite, so............
somebody has to support the Miller company

might as well be me
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 16, 2020, 11:49:07 AM
I drink the champagne of beers once in a blue moon - living the high life
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 16, 2020, 12:04:44 PM
I have had some corked (or corky) wines that were definite pour outs (or take backs).  Some were amazingly bad.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 16, 2020, 12:08:43 PM
I have had some corked (or corky) wines that were definite pour outs (or take backs).  Some were amazingly bad.
Yeah, I had one just the other day.  I've read wine industry reports that up to 20% of wines get corked, but I've never detected THAT much.  Maybe 2-5% or so?

But this one was really, really bad.  My wife was trying to drink it and thought she just didn't like the marque, but it's one we've had quite a bit.  I tried it and told her, "Nope, this one has just gone bad.  Drain-pour."
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on September 16, 2020, 12:09:18 PM
not a big beer fan. although the nearly frozen heineken on tap at their museum/facility in Amsterdam is pretty damn good. makes the heineken we have here taste like piss water. pretty much all of the beers i tried in germany were pretty great as well. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 16, 2020, 12:11:31 PM
Oh I know of San Diego's reputation.  That's why my friend insists I should like the stuff he sends.  But that reputation is founded on brutally overhopped beers, so it's clearly not my jam and I don't recognize San Diego as being a particularly good beer-producing city because of that.

I'd certainly give the Vienna style lager a try though.  My favorite brewery in the USA does almost exclusively European styles, which ARE my jam and is precisely why it's my favorite brewery in the USA.  Their Vienna-style lager they've been making for over 20 years, is absolutely delicious, and is my favorite beer they make.
Well, their brutally overhopped beers are excellent examples of the brutally overhopped beer style ;-) 

But with currently 156 operating breweries (https://westcoastersd.com/san-diego-brewery-list/) in the county, they make excellent examples of other styles too. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 16, 2020, 12:13:57 PM
Yeah, I had one just the other day.  I've read wine industry reports that up to 20% of wines get corked, but I've never detected THAT much.  Maybe 2-5% or so?

But this one was really, really bad.  My wife was trying to drink it and thought she just didn't like the marque, but it's one we've had quite a bit.  I tried it and told her, "Nope, this one has just gone bad.  Drain-pour."

Yeah, at our wine bar one day we ordered a bottle and when the owner opened it for us, he smelled the cork and immediately knew it was corked.

It was the first time that either of us actually learned what "corked" wine smells like. You get a sort of musty smell from the cork rather than clean wine, and we got to taste the difference between that and the replacement bottle. Huge difference, and it makes me wonder whether there have been bottles I've drank in the past, and not enjoyed, and thought I just didn't like the wine when it happened to just be a bad bottle. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 16, 2020, 12:15:25 PM


But with currently 156 operating breweries (https://westcoastersd.com/san-diego-brewery-list/) in the county, they make excellent examples of other styles too.
Maybe so. But with so much great beer available locally here and all over the place, it's really not necessary for me to worry about what other geos are doing.

When I'm in a different city, I always drink local though.  So next time I'm in San Diego, I'll try to find something local that's not brutally overhopped.  We'll see how that goes. :)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 16, 2020, 12:25:12 PM
Pretty cool that I get to turn this thread off in a little over a month. I didn't think it would happen.

Should we turn off the "no games" stream?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 16, 2020, 12:26:58 PM
Pretty cool that I get to turn this thread off in a little over a month. I didn't think it would happen.

Should we turn off the "no games" stream?
Offseason ended two weeks ago, bub.

But yeah, sure, kill the no games stream for sure.  Since, you know, games are already being played. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 16, 2020, 12:30:04 PM
Poor UTee. Can't even remember what board he's on.

Speaking of boards... 

Do we even need conference boards anymore?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 16, 2020, 12:31:55 PM
Probably not
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 16, 2020, 12:47:08 PM
Pretty cool that I get to turn this thread off in a little over a month. I didn't think it would happen.

Should we turn off the "no games" stream?
Let's not make assumptions about what will happen. 2020 isn't over yet. I'm sure there are a few more surprises awaiting us. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 16, 2020, 12:53:38 PM
Poor UTee. Can't even remember what board he's on.

Speaking of boards...

Do we even need conference boards anymore?
probably not 
why not just rename this board the Big12 and Friends board
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 16, 2020, 01:46:07 PM
College football, recipes and libations sounds like a good thread name.

BWar is a party pooper. Of course, he hates everyone.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 16, 2020, 01:55:46 PM
College football, recipes and libations sounds like a good thread name.

BWar is a party pooper. Of course, he hates everyone.

He can have his own thread.  Call it "Eeyore's Outhouse" or something. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 16, 2020, 02:00:17 PM
I've had a couple of beers that were so disgusting I poured them out, but they've been few and far between.

I only recall doing that once. And it was this, iirc. 


(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/13/96/8f/13968fb483165bd0575079f752122ba8.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 16, 2020, 02:15:12 PM
I only recall doing that once. And it was this, iirc.


[img width=440.998 height=500]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/13/96/8f/13968fb483165bd0575079f752122ba8.jpg[/img]
thats for collecting not for drinking

like Billy Beer
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 16, 2020, 02:16:12 PM
Billy beer went good with boiled peanuts.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 16, 2020, 02:40:38 PM
Billy beer was a little before my time, I've never had the opportunity.

I love boiled peanuts, though. You find them pretty regularly in the South, but not here in Texico.  I make my own when in season, but it's tough to even find green peanuts around here, some years we get them and some years we don't.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 16, 2020, 02:43:34 PM
Billy Beer wasn't good, kinda like his brother

never thought boiled peanuts were good either
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 16, 2020, 02:53:57 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/pFNZvNu.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 16, 2020, 06:19:49 PM
I cant believe this woman doesnt live in Texas
as she holds an accused arsonist for the police

https://www.the-sun.com/news/1476038/arsonist-oregon-wildfires-gunpoint-california-west-coast/


this guy was trespassing on the womans property so yes she was well within her rights
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 16, 2020, 06:27:45 PM
I cant believe this woman doesnt live in Texas
as she holds an accused arsonist for the police

https://www.the-sun.com/news/1476038/arsonist-oregon-wildfires-gunpoint-california-west-coast/


this guy was trespassing on the womans property so yes she was well within her rights
Not sure where she is, but she might not live in Oregon. She might live in the State of Jefferson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state)). 

It's a place where they scoff at y'all Texans for being too liberal. 


Quote
On November 27, 1941, a group of young men gained national media attention when, brandishing hunting rifles for dramatic effect, they stopped traffic on U.S. Route 99 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_99_(California)) south of Yreka, the county seat of Siskiyou County, and handed out copies of a Proclamation of Independence, stating that the State of Jefferson was in "patriotic rebellion against the States of California and Oregon" and would continue to "secede every Thursday until further notice."


"Every Thursday until further notice". :57:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 16, 2020, 06:41:22 PM
Not sure where she is, but she might not live in Oregon. She might live in the State of Jefferson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state)).

It's a place where they scoff at y'all Texans for being too liberal.



"Every Thursday until further notice". :57:
well I do know Im not going near her property
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 16, 2020, 08:14:00 PM
Billy beer went good with boiled peanuts.
People in AZ don't even know what boiled peanuts are.  


Uh, hello, they should be in every gas station and outdoor event on the planet, that's what!  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on September 16, 2020, 09:33:00 PM
I found many of the Ice beers of the 90s undrinkable and poured some out.

Generally speaking, the hop bombs of the PNW and even many in other regions are just no good.  A lot in common with hot sauce.  It's pretty good, generally, but I still want to taste the food. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on September 16, 2020, 09:38:18 PM
I found many of the Ice beers of the 90s undrinkable and poured some out.
I began college just as their cheap beer reign was coming to an end.  I don't think I saw them beyond freshman year
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 16, 2020, 09:52:31 PM

speaking of awful 90s beer.

(https://www.totalwine.com/dynamic/x490,sq/media/sys_master/twmmedia/hb6/hf0/11931352399902.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on September 16, 2020, 10:18:22 PM
Ugh, not even beer.  It was already a joke by my college days.  Getting one was either part of a lost bet, or a Mad Dog 20/20 challenge.

No Zima fans out there?  That predated me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on September 16, 2020, 10:18:49 PM
Ugh, not even beer.  It was already a joke by my college days.  Getting one was either part of a lost bet, or a Mad Dog 20/20 challenge.

No Zima fans out there?  That predated me.
Ha, read that as Mad Dog.  My comments stand
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 16, 2020, 10:19:24 PM
People in AZ don't even know what boiled peanuts are. 


Uh, hello, they should be in every gas station and outdoor event on the planet, that's what! 

Growing up in Texico, I had no idea, either.  It wasn't until my sister moved to Florida and I started visiting her, that I discovered this delicious delicacy.  Every gas station indeed.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 16, 2020, 10:29:01 PM




No Zima fans out there?  That predated me.


In the 90s you had to keep Zima on hand because a lot of the ladies would only drink that. I drank exactly one myself. I didn't dump it out, but had to choke it down. It was like a flat Sprite. 

There was one time when we walked past this house, and these chicks ran out and asked us if we knew how to tap a keg. We did, so they said that if we tapped theirs, we could stick around and drink. It turned out to be the women's Ice Hockey team, throwing some sorta post season house party. That was a rather unexpected turn of events. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on September 17, 2020, 12:20:48 AM


In the 90s you had to keep Zima on hand because a lot of the ladies would only drink that. I drank exactly one myself. I didn't dump it out, but had to choke it down. It was like a flat Sprite.

There was one time when we walked past this house, and these chicks ran out and asked us if we knew how to tap a keg. We did, so they said that if we tapped theirs, we could stick around and drink. It turned out to be the women's Ice Hockey team, throwing some sorta post season house party. That was a rather unexpected turn of events.
Damn, I would have expected those girls to know how to do that. There was a house around the corner from us where about six girls on the MSU rugby team lived, and they could go toe-to-toe with any guy, with whatever you were drinking
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on September 17, 2020, 12:46:18 AM
zima was really no different than whatever non beer drink is trendy today.   Hard lemonade,  whatever ready to drink canned beverage in 2020.  So much cycling through these trends every 3 years.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 17, 2020, 07:26:43 AM
When I went to Myrtle Beach for Senior Week after I graduated HS all the girls who went with us were drinking Zima.  They would put a Jolly  Rancher in it to flavor it.  Terrible beverage.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 17, 2020, 08:26:53 AM
zima was really no different than whatever non beer drink is trendy today.  Hard lemonade,  whatever ready to drink canned beverage in 2020.  So much cycling through these trends every 3 years.

California Cooler --> Zima --> Smirnoff Ice --> Hard Lemonade --> White Claw

I probably missed a couple.

It's for people that want to get drunk-on-the-go but don't want to drink beer to do so.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 17, 2020, 08:27:32 AM


In the 90s you had to keep Zima on hand because a lot of the ladies would only drink that. I drank exactly one myself. I didn't dump it out, but had to choke it down. It was like a flat Sprite.

There was one time when we walked past this house, and these chicks ran out and asked us if we knew how to tap a keg. We did, so they said that if we tapped theirs, we could stick around and drink. It turned out to be the women's Ice Hockey team, throwing some sorta post season house party. That was a rather unexpected turn of events.
I hate to say there were lying to bring in a few gents to hang out, but if they were hockey players ...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 17, 2020, 08:33:00 AM
California Cooler --> Zima --> Smirnoff Ice --> Hard Lemonade --> White Claw

I probably missed a couple.

It's for people that want to get drunk-on-the-go but don't want to drink beer to do so.

I first had what was called a "California Cooler" at a Grateful Dead concert in Austin Texas in 1982. It was essentially a Sprite mixed with a cheap wine. As they didn't sell any beer at this concert, that was the only drink you could buy. It wasn't terrible, but 1 was all I could drink. Made for a long concert. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 17, 2020, 08:34:51 AM
warm,flat LoneStar-->California Cooler --> Zima --> Smirnoff Ice --> Hard Lemonade --> White Claw
FIFY
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 17, 2020, 08:36:26 AM
I first had what was called a "California Cooler" at a Grateful Dead concert in Austin Texas in 1982.
What happened did a 12 yr old utee94 tell you not to move there?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 17, 2020, 08:40:20 AM
There was a very cheap beer that some people would drink when I was in college. I believe it was from Wisconsin and called Ole Rhinelander, or something to that effect. It was absolutely the worst beer I had ever tasted. I had to be drunk before I could choke one down. I remember that the people who drank it, bought it in bottles by the case and it was something like $3 or $4 a case (this was in 1982-1987). The deposit on the bottles almost doubled the cost at the time. When you are a broke college student, you sometimes resort to some pretty bad choices. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 17, 2020, 08:42:40 AM
BWar is a party pooper. Of course, he hates everyone.
Ed Zachery,you'd think someone tagged as a Boilermaker would be a little more lively
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 17, 2020, 08:43:50 AM
What happened did a 12 yr old utee94 tell you not to move there?
I was living in Shertz, TX, (a suburb of San Antonio) at the time, doing construction at Randolph AFB. A couple of guys I worked with, decided to go to the concert and I went along as I did like quite a bit of their music. 

After living in Texas for a summer, I could not be forced to live their permanently. Too hot for this northern guy. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 17, 2020, 08:52:17 AM
There was a very cheap beer that some people would drink when I was in college. I believe it was from Wisconsin and called Ole Rhinelander, or something to that effect. It was absolutely the worst beer I had ever tasted. I had to be drunk before I could choke one down. I remember that the people who drank it, bought it in bottles by the case and it was something like $3 or $4 a case (this was in 1982-1987). The deposit on the bottles almost doubled the cost at the time. When you are a broke college student, you sometimes resort to some pretty bad choices.
In the 80s there was some cheap offering around here called USA Beer(U-Save-Alot).My dad was thrifty when purchising suds,back in the day he'd buy beer right off of the truck saving a few bucks a case.It's illegal now,might have been then too.He'd also buy in volume 5-10 cases at a time sometimes getting even a better price on unsold beer.All this after the Kegerator died,never knew if Prohibition would rear it's ugly head again and evidently he wasn't taking any chances.This stuff must have been the run off from cleaning the Ole Rhinelander vats 😜
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 17, 2020, 08:56:46 AM
I was living in Shertz, TX, (a suburb of San Antonio) at the time, doing construction at Randolph AFB. A couple of guys I worked with, decided to go to the concert and I went along as I did like quite a bit of their music.

After living in Texas for a summer, I could not be forced to live their permanently. Too hot for this northern guy.
Thank You For Your Support

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 17, 2020, 09:01:22 AM
I'd certainly give the Vienna style lager a try though.  My favorite brewery in the USA does almost exclusively European styles, which ARE my jam and is precisely why it's my favorite brewery in the USA.  Their Vienna-style lager they've been making for over 20 years, is absolutely delicious, and is my favorite beer they make.
Testify 94 Testify :singing:

(https://i.imgur.com/GSCaixH.png)
https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/73/229/  ,Ranked No.1
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 17, 2020, 09:03:36 AM
In college when we were flat-out broke, we'd buy 6ers of Mickey's Big Mouth.  It was high alcohol and cheap.

On good days, I could afford pitchers of Shiner Bock.

On great days I'd buy pitchers of Whitbread or Celis White.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 17, 2020, 09:04:51 AM
Mickey's wasn't too shabby as I recall - ice cold
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on September 17, 2020, 09:10:54 AM
There was a very cheap beer that some people would drink when I was in college. I believe it was from Wisconsin and called Ole Rhinelander, or something to that effect. It was absolutely the worst beer I had ever tasted. I had to be drunk before I could choke one down. I remember that the people who drank it, bought it in bottles by the case and it was something like $3 or $4 a case (this was in 1982-1987). The deposit on the bottles almost doubled the cost at the time. When you are a broke college student, you sometimes resort to some pretty bad choices.
(https://d2sochvv0rudri.cloudfront.net/beer_labels/2493/old-milwaukee.jpg)
Was this the beer you're looking for? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 17, 2020, 09:11:07 AM
 pretty much all of the beers i tried in germany were pretty great as well.
Get outta here with this disjointed babble,who'da thunk?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 17, 2020, 09:11:30 AM
I first had what was called a "California Cooler" at a Grateful Dead concert in Austin Texas in 1982. It was essentially a Sprite mixed with a cheap wine. As they didn't sell any beer at this concert, that was the only drink you could buy. It wasn't terrible, but 1 was all I could drink. Made for a long concert.
It was a Grateful Dead concert. I'm sure someone in that crowd could have sold you something to take the edge off. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 17, 2020, 09:12:18 AM
(https://d2sochvv0rudri.cloudfront.net/beer_labels/2493/old-milwaukee.jpg)
Was this the beer you're looking for?
Old Moldy's were better than the bilge mentioned upthread
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 17, 2020, 09:18:22 AM
Old Moldy's were better than the bilge mentioned upthread
low bar
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 17, 2020, 09:40:36 AM
Ugh, not even beer.  It was already a joke by my college days.  Getting one was either part of a lost bet, or a Mad Dog 20/20 challenge.

No Zima fans out there?  That predated me.
Not at all. But you can get White Claw now, which sucks.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 17, 2020, 09:41:21 AM
In college, we'd often drink Red, White, and Blue, which was a cheap version of PBR, if you can fathom that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 17, 2020, 09:43:57 AM
There was a very cheap beer that some people would drink when I was in college. I believe it was from Wisconsin and called Ole Rhinelander, or something to that effect. It was absolutely the worst beer I had ever tasted. I had to be drunk before I could choke one down. I remember that the people who drank it, bought it in bottles by the case and it was something like $3 or $4 a case (this was in 1982-1987). The deposit on the bottles almost doubled the cost at the time. When you are a broke college student, you sometimes resort to some pretty bad choices.
It was just plain old Rhinelander. Lots of people referred to Olympia as Ole back in those days. Equally sucked too.

Falstaff? Huber? Schlitz?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 17, 2020, 09:45:19 AM
(https://d2sochvv0rudri.cloudfront.net/beer_labels/2493/old-milwaukee.jpg)
Was this the beer you're looking for?
No, that was a premium beer compared to Ole Rhielander. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 17, 2020, 09:45:55 AM
Not at all. But you can get White Claw now, which sucks
Never heard of it and know not what it is
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 17, 2020, 09:47:44 AM
We humans like getting a buzz apparently and beverage makes are rather clever at devising new flavors to provide same.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 17, 2020, 09:48:01 AM
It was a Grateful Dead concert. I'm sure someone in that crowd could have sold you something to take the edge off.
Probably, but not my style. 

When we parked in a field close to the race track that held the concert, some guy in a white van parked opposite our car. He got out, opened the back of the van, pulled out a table and set up all different sorts of drugs for sale. Needless to say, I avoided that table and many others trying to make a profit. I drank beer, but that was about the extent of it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 17, 2020, 09:48:59 AM
It was just plain old Rhinelander. Lots of people referred to Olympia as Ole back in those days. Equally sucked too.

Falstaff? Huber? Schlitz?
Oh. That was many years ago and I guess I remember it being called Ole Rhinelander. But thanks for the info.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 17, 2020, 09:49:10 AM
It was just plain old Rhinelander. Lots of people referred to Olympia as Ole back in those days. Equally sucked too.

Falstaff? Huber? Schlitz?
Back in the 50/60/70's Schlitz was right behind the Bud/Miller behemoth's somehow they screwed up a good thing - Pabst too
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 17, 2020, 09:49:44 AM
Never heard of it and know not what it is
It's alcoholic seltzer water that comes in various fruit-themed flavors.

Chicks that don't like beer, like it, because it can get you drunk and it's not beer.  Dudes that work out a lot and want to show off their abs drink it, because it's lower in carbs than beer.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 17, 2020, 09:51:35 AM
In college, we'd often drink Red, White, and Blue, which was a cheap version of PBR, if you can fathom that.
Fathom should never be used in the same sentence as R,W&B or even Pabst
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 17, 2020, 09:52:46 AM
  Dudes that work out a lot and want to show off their abs drink it, because it's lower in carbs than beer.
Rather have a Keg than a 6 pack
(https://i.imgur.com/o19oNaF.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 17, 2020, 09:54:43 AM
When I was leaving for college my dad gave me some sage advice which has stayed with me to this day

He said son stay away from the sweet alcoholic drinks

they will just get you drunk too fast and very sick the next day

thanks dad
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 17, 2020, 09:55:48 AM
When I was leaving for college my dad gave me some sage advice which has stayed with me to this day

He said son stay away from the sweet alcoholic drinks

they will just get you drunk too fast and very sick the next day

thanks dad
Yeah but I love margaritas, mojitos, caipirinha, and gin&tonic.  So...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 17, 2020, 09:56:38 AM
The Horror
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 17, 2020, 09:57:03 AM
I hate to say there were lying to bring in a few gents to hang out, but if they were hockey players ...


Ha! They all had Canadian/Minnesota accents, and they each could have bench pressed that keg. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 17, 2020, 10:00:15 AM


This was the REAL low brow beer from the 90s. 

Natty Light was "top shelf" by comparison. 

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0566/6837/products/Carling_Black_Label.png?v=1560302487)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 17, 2020, 10:03:29 AM
I prefer the caiparoska.

Nice drink really for a hot day, but can load you up fast.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on September 17, 2020, 10:04:20 AM


(https://www.totalwine.com/dynamic/x490,sq/media/sys_master/twmmedia/hb6/hf0/11931352399902.png)
Oh boy, this brings back some unpleasant memories.
 
One weekend while in undergrad, I was part of something called a case race. Two teams of 12 or more raced to see which teams could drink 4 cases (24-packs) of beer the fastest. The order of consumption was Miller Genuine Draft Light, Miller Lite, Milwaukee's Best Light, and Red Dog (the organizers were all from the Milwaukee burbs).  By the time the belligerents got into the Red Dog, everyone suddenly got really sick. People puking everywhere. I think one team made it to the bottom of the case, but it was an ugly affair. Fortunately, this event was conducted outside and it started to rain shortly thereafter. 

I only bring that up because of the statute of limitations.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 17, 2020, 10:05:00 AM
We had Falstaff here.  And Buckhorn.  And "Oly."

And then of course the cheap versions of macro-leaders like Busch (Budweiser), Keystone (Coors), and "The Beast" (Milwaukee's Best from Miller Corp).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 17, 2020, 10:06:09 AM
I prefer the caiparoska.

Nice drink really for a hot day, but can load you up fast.
Yeah it's not as sweet as caipirinha.  Substituting vodka instead of cachaca (rum).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 17, 2020, 10:07:53 AM
Mabel,Black Label Carling Black Label Beer
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 17, 2020, 10:10:21 AM

Ha! They all had Canadian/Minnesota accents, and they each could have bench pressed that keg.


So they took you by force? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 17, 2020, 10:11:35 AM
Mickey's wasn't too shabby as I recall - ice cold
used to play quarters with Mickey's big mouth bottles, didn't have to chug too many before you had a good buzz
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 17, 2020, 10:13:47 AM
Yeah but I love margaritas, mojitos, caipirinha, and gin&tonic.  So...

thats fine now
you know your limits and have much more experience drinking then an 18 year old freshman

To this day I find it hard to drink bourbon cause of too many  coke and bourbon drinks at a party

I remember that party was going great till somebody threw the bar-b-q pit into the swimming pool

It all went down hill from there

The police were pretty nice though, they said if the pit is retrieved from the pool our door closed and the music turned down 
all would be well

we did this very quickly

it was amazing out of 50 people at that party at least 40 were under age but the police didnt ask for 1 ID
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 17, 2020, 10:24:13 AM
thats fine now
you know your limits and have much more experience drinking then an 18 year old freshman

To this day I find it hard to drink bourbon cause of too many  coke and bourbon drinks at a party

I remember that party was going great till somebody threw the bar-b-q pit into the swimming pool

It all went down hill from there

The police were pretty nice though, they said if the pit is retrieved from the pool our door closed and the music turned down
all would be well

we did this very quickly

it was amazing out of 50 people at that party at least 40 were under age but the police didnt ask for 1 ID

Wait, "underage" back then would have been under 18, right? So a high school party?

Cops were pretty lenient on us drinking underage at college parties (18-21) but they definitely shut down any drinking at high school parties, when I was a kid.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 17, 2020, 10:27:30 AM
Wait, "underage" back then would have been under 18, right? So a high school party?

Cops were pretty lenient on us drinking underage at college parties (18-21) but they definitely shut down any drinking at high school parties, when I was a kid.

nope 21
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 17, 2020, 10:31:07 AM
We had two cops at our HS graduation party and most folks there were drinking.  The cops were off duty.

I actually did not drink.

Cops were very lenient back in the day in my experience.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 17, 2020, 10:34:26 AM
nope 21
Texas drinking age was 21 back in your youth (which I'm assuming was around World War I)?  I had no idea.

I just looked it up, it dropped to 18 in 1973, then went up to 19 in 1981, then went up to 21 in 1986.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 17, 2020, 10:35:38 AM
I was a freshman in 1967 so it was 21
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 17, 2020, 10:36:39 AM
Hey, West Coast beer lovers, it’s pronounced YING-ling.

D.G. Yuengling and Son, America’s oldest operating brewer, is sending some cold ones your way for the first time since it began making beer in 1829.

The brewery, about two hours northwest of Philadelphia, on Tuesday announced a joint venture with Molson Coors to break out beyond its traditional 22-state distribution area in the East.

Raising beers to toast the new partnership with the Pennsylvania brewer, Molson Coors CEO Gavin Hattersley said, “We’re going to make a whole lot of Yuengling fans out West really happy.”

The family-owned brewery known for its cheap, German-style lager will remain independent. A six-member board of directors — three from Yuengling and three from Molson Coors Beverage Co. — will oversee Yuengling’s expansion starting in the second half of 2021.

Yuengling has two breweries in Pennsylvania and one in Florida. Molson Coors, the nation’s second-largest brewer, has seven primary breweries and six craft breweries.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 17, 2020, 10:42:19 AM
So they took you by force?


They rode me to the corner on a power play.

So I had to poke check my way out of there, and put one through the five hole. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 17, 2020, 10:44:34 AM

They rode me to the corner on a power play.

So I had to poke check my way out of there, and put one through the five hole.
thanks a lot BB now I'll have that in my head all day
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 17, 2020, 10:49:59 AM

They rode me to the corner on a power play.

So I had to poke check my way out of there, and put one through the five hole.
A. Well done.
B. I recall walking past a set of women's hockey players when I drove out of town for a men's game. The weirdest thing about hockey is the muscle development. When you think about the muscles you use for hockey, the quads, gluten and hamstrings (and other muscles in the area) get a disproportionate amount of work and thus are built up. Those poor girls' jeans were holding on for dear life.

Somewhere on the internet, a former Badger was in the ESPN body issue. Considering she got into weightlifting when she was throwing HS kids around in prep school, well. (Edit: A few years later, three more Badgers were part of the issue with some Team USA teammates. On Wisconsin)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 17, 2020, 10:55:30 AM
Hey, West Coast beer lovers, it’s pronounced YING-ling.

D.G. Yuengling and Son, America’s oldest operating brewer, is sending some cold ones your way for the first time since it began making beer in 1829.

The brewery, about two hours northwest of Philadelphia, on Tuesday announced a joint venture with Molson Coors to break out beyond its traditional 22-state distribution area in the East.

Raising beers to toast the new partnership with the Pennsylvania brewer, Molson Coors CEO Gavin Hattersley said, “We’re going to make a whole lot of Yuengling fans out West really happy.”

The family-owned brewery known for its cheap, German-style lager will remain independent. A six-member board of directors — three from Yuengling and three from Molson Coors Beverage Co. — will oversee Yuengling’s expansion starting in the second half of 2021.

Yuengling has two breweries in Pennsylvania and one in Florida. Molson Coors, the nation’s second-largest brewer, has seven primary breweries and six craft breweries.



Yuengling is extremely fine, even though it's often treated as more than that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 17, 2020, 11:04:52 AM
I've had Yeungling with friends back east, but I honestly don't remember anything about it.  I don't recall hating it so I guess it was okay.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 17, 2020, 11:15:30 AM
I've had Yeungling with friends back east, but I honestly don't remember anything about it.  I don't recall hating it so I guess it was okay. 
Nice basic lager. Could do worse. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 17, 2020, 11:18:33 AM
I've had Yeungling with friends back east, but I honestly don't remember anything about it.  I don't recall hating it so I guess it was okay. 
It's the sort of beer that when your at a bad bar or trying to be a little cheap is a good option. 

It's everywhere where I live and is fine. But we also have some solid local brews, so I have to go with that. The Sweet Baby Jesus! peanut butter porter out of DuClaw in Maryland is one I find at a few places where I live and it is also good. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on September 17, 2020, 11:20:45 AM
Until now, bringing Yuengling from Toledo was like bringing Coors from Colorado back in the day?

I drank it in Florida this past winter. Nothing outstanding, just a solid beer to wash down pizza and hot wings.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 17, 2020, 11:29:30 AM
Coors skunks if you don't keep it refrigerated from birth to death, and you frequently see it stacked up outside of the refrigerator these days. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 17, 2020, 11:34:58 AM
Until now, bringing Yuengling from Toledo was like bringing Coors from Colorado back in the day?

I drank it in Florida this past winter. Nothing outstanding, just a solid beer to wash down pizza and hot wings.
yup, will be a nice change up from Bud Fat and Shiner Bock
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on September 17, 2020, 11:37:42 AM
There was a very cheap beer that some people would drink when I was in college. I believe it was from Wisconsin and called Ole Rhinelander, or something to that effect. It was absolutely the worst beer I had ever tasted. I had to be drunk before I could choke one down. I remember that the people who drank it, bought it in bottles by the case and it was something like $3 or $4 a case (this was in 1982-1987). The deposit on the bottles almost doubled the cost at the time. When you are a broke college student, you sometimes resort to some pretty bad choices.
When I was in college it was Wiedemann's. Cheap and not half bad.


Now when we wanted to go really cheap, we made harry buffalo's. We would "borrow" pure grain alcohol from the chem lab and mix it with kool-aid. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 17, 2020, 11:39:20 AM
Coors skunks if you don't keep it refrigerated from birth to death, and you frequently see it stacked up outside of the refrigerator these days.
The idea that temperature changes will "skunk" a beer are inaccurate. "Skunk" beer is from UV light interacting with isomerized alpha acids (from hops). Brown bottles help minimize the potential for this by blocking UV. Green or clear bottles allow most UV in. Cans completely prevent "skunked" beer. 

Temperature changes, within reason, don't cause it in any beer. Although for highly hopped beers, the hop flavor/profile fades with time and will fade most quickly at higher temps. But that's much different than being skunked.


https://www.latimes.com/food/dailydish/la-dd-three-myths-about-skunky-beer-20140411-story.html
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 17, 2020, 11:41:47 AM
When I was in college it was Wiedemann's. Cheap and not half bad.
In Austin back in the 1970s it was Texas Pride and Old Milwaukee
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 17, 2020, 11:49:41 AM
The idea that temperature changes will "skunk" a beer are inaccurate. "Skunk" beer is from UV light interacting with isomerized alpha acids (from hops). Brown bottles help minimize the potential for this by blocking UV. Green or clear bottles allow most UV in. Cans completely prevent "skunked" beer.

Temperature changes, within reason, don't cause it in any beer. Although for highly hopped beers, the hop flavor/profile fades with time and will fade most quickly at higher temps. But that's much different than being skunked.


https://www.latimes.com/food/dailydish/la-dd-three-myths-about-skunky-beer-20140411-story.html
I figured you'd handle that one. :)


Also, it sounds like you're saying that the way to make those brutally overhopped west coast beers taste better, would be to expose them to really high temperatures?  If so, I'm sending a Dr. Evil-style heat ray your direction, right now. ;)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 17, 2020, 11:52:35 AM
The idea that temperature changes will "skunk" a beer are inaccurate. "Skunk" beer is from UV light interacting with isomerized alpha acids (from hops). Brown bottles help minimize the potential for this by blocking UV. Green or clear bottles allow most UV in. Cans completely prevent "skunked" beer.

Temperature changes, within reason, don't cause it in any beer. Although for highly hopped beers, the hop flavor/profile fades with time and will fade most quickly at higher temps. But that's much different than being skunked.


https://www.latimes.com/food/dailydish/la-dd-three-myths-about-skunky-beer-20140411-story.html
so, some folks may incorrectly call it skunked beer when it acquires a crappy taste from multiple temp changes, hot to ice cold to hot to cold

what is this called and how does it work?

cause we've all had canned beer that was left in the cooler and was bad enough we had to poor it out.  Doesn't happen often with Budweiser.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 17, 2020, 11:55:16 AM
so, some folks may incorrectly call it skunked beer when it acquires a crappy taste from multiple temp changes, hot to ice cold to hot to cold

what is this called and how does it work?

cause we've all had canned beer that was left in the cooler and was bad enough we had to poor it out.  Doesn't happen often with Budweiser.
Well yeah, because no matter how many temperature extremes it undergoes, it's impossible to make Budweiser taste any worse than it does fresh from the brewery! :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 17, 2020, 11:56:43 AM
drinkability!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 17, 2020, 12:03:11 PM
You can definitely tell when a Coors hasn't been refrigerated its whole life. It tastes completely different. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 17, 2020, 12:06:58 PM
You can definitely tell when a Coors hasn't been refrigerated its whole life. It tastes completely different.
Ive never been a fan of Coors
Its not al smooth as I like
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 17, 2020, 12:20:15 PM
so, some folks may incorrectly call it skunked beer when it acquires a crappy taste from multiple temp changes, hot to ice cold to hot to cold

what is this called and how does it work?
Imagination? 

You can definitely tell when a Coors hasn't been refrigerated its whole life. It tastes completely different.
I'd love to set you up to a blind "triangle test" taste test on this one. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 17, 2020, 12:22:19 PM
Imagination?
I'd love to set you up to a blind "triangle test" taste test on this one.
Set one up for yourself, and report back.

It's just nasty if it has ever been warm. You can tell on the first sip.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 17, 2020, 12:57:23 PM
I should point out that there are changes that can occur to beer over time, and many of those changes can accelerate with temperature.

One of them, as mentioned, is the fading of hop character. Not a big issue in American macro lagers, because they don't have much anyway.

But other issues could affect taste. Any yeast remaining in suspension or any foreign microbes could cause flavor changes to the beer, and those flavor changes would occur more quickly at high temperature. Oxygen ingress to the beer during the packaging step can lead to oxidation, which gives beer a sort of "sherry" or "cardboard" flavor, and is nasty. Beer does go stale over time [made worse if oxygen is introduced during the brewing, hot-side, processes], and all the staling reactions occur more quickly at higher temperature.

That said, modern American macro breweries should have fully sterile beer, have amazing industrial control processes to avoid oxygen ingress during packaging and avoid hot-side aeration during brewing. 

Maybe 30-40 years ago, they didn't, and that's where these myths came from. But a beer from any American macro brewery that experiences room-temperature environment for a week or a month compared to being refrigerated during that time should have NO discernable taste difference.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 17, 2020, 01:09:21 PM
Natty Light was our el-cheapo beer back in college.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 17, 2020, 01:31:16 PM
we have arrived at page "666"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 17, 2020, 01:34:13 PM
we have arrived at page "666"
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/32/IronMaiden_NumberOfBeast.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 17, 2020, 01:36:03 PM
my golf cart partner is a Banquet Beer drinker, Coors Heavy

sometimes the beverage cart girl will over serve us on the course, the remaining cans of Coors and Bud stay in the cooler on my golf cart.  It may be a week before we get back to the course to add ice and fresh beers and resume drinking.

The Coors will be much more likely to acquire this funky/nasty taste than my cans of Bud. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 17, 2020, 01:49:15 PM
my golf cart partner is a Banquet Beer drinker, Coors Heavy

sometimes the beverage cart girl will over serve us on the course, the remaining cans of Coors and Bud stay in the cooler on my golf cart.  It may be a week before we get back to the course to add ice and fresh beers and resume drinking.

The Coors will be much more likely to acquire this funky/nasty taste than my cans of Bud.


Yes, it is definitely the yellow can (not "light") where it is most noticeable. It goes from going down smooth, to instant bitter beer face.  

If you don't notice there is either something wrong with your taste buds, or you've never actually had one that has remained cold the entire time. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 17, 2020, 01:51:00 PM

Yes, it is definitely the yellow can (not "light") where it is most noticeable. It goes from going down smooth, to instant bitter beer face. 

If you don't notice there is either something wrong with your taste buds, or you've never actually had one that has remained cold the entire time.
I will say I don't drink a lot of Banquet. And the two most recent times I've had it has been on the Coors tour at the brewery in Golden, so I'm sure it was well cared for between brewing and serving there...

But if this is true, they're doing something very wrong. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 17, 2020, 02:14:40 PM
my golf cart partner is a Banquet Beer drinker, Coors Heavy

sometimes the beverage cart girl will over serve us on the course, the remaining cans of Coors and Bud stay in the cooler on my golf cart.  It may be a week before we get back to the course to add ice and fresh beers and resume drinking.

The Coors will be much more likely to acquire this funky/nasty taste than my cans of Bud.
my favorite part of golf
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 17, 2020, 02:39:32 PM
mine too

I'd post pics, but................ nah, better not
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: TyphonInc on September 17, 2020, 03:02:09 PM
Well... I've gt to post on this page since some have claimed I am the Anti-Christ.

Anyway back in college we always did 40 Thursday. You were not admitted to the party unless you brought a 40 with you. My cheap swill of choice was the King Cobra, mostly because all the cool kids bought all of the Colt 45 from our local UDF before I got off work.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 17, 2020, 03:28:21 PM
we have arrived at page "666"
(https://i.imgur.com/7T6Z3P8.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/NwHcFZz.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 17, 2020, 03:33:16 PM
we have arrived at page "666"
It's 999 if you look at it upside-down!  :67:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on September 17, 2020, 03:38:43 PM
Personally I have become a beer snob in my old age. If I am buying beer, it is going to be Four Peaks Kiltlifter (a phoenix area brewery's Scottish Ale).  I generally only frequent places where it is served.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 17, 2020, 03:40:19 PM
that is snobberish
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 17, 2020, 03:40:26 PM
Maybe 30-40 years ago, they didn't, and that's where these myths came from. But a beer from any American macro brewery that experiences room-temperature environment for a week or a month compared to being refrigerated during that time should have NO discernable taste difference.
Perhaps but I had a co-worker who served in Vietnam.Anyway he swore his own Government was trying to kill it's guys by leaving Falstaff on the Tarmac at a Cam Ranh Bay LZ in 108 degrees
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 17, 2020, 03:43:23 PM

I just looked it up, it dropped to 18 in 1973, then went up to 19 in 1981, then went up to 21 in 1986. 
They heard your class of lassies was coming and prolly couldn't handle it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 17, 2020, 03:43:32 PM
It's 999 if you look at it upside-down!  :67:
bought this album in college

great version of "Little Red Riding Hood"


(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frecordcollectorsoftheworldunite.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F10%2Fconcretelp.jpg&hash=8dce880c60b8a07aaf4b0a4425fe8721)
 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 17, 2020, 03:44:58 PM
Personally I have become a beer snob in my old age. If I am buying beer, it is going to be Four Peaks Kiltlifter (a phoenix area brewery's Scottish Ale).  I generally only frequent places where it is served.
Should be a lot easier to find considering Four Peaks is owned by AB/Inbev.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 17, 2020, 03:45:03 PM
Perhaps but I had a co-worker who served in Vietnam.Anyway he swore his own Government was trying to kill it's guys by leaving Falstaff on the Tarmac at a Cam Ranh Bay LZ in 108 degrees
my Grandfather drank a lot of Falstaff
He'd give me a taste in the afternoon
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 17, 2020, 03:46:03 PM
Yuengling is extremely fine, even though it's often treated as more than that.
IMO it's the best non craft Lager out there,and better than some of those
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 17, 2020, 03:48:23 PM
we know your opinion on Yingling
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 17, 2020, 03:54:14 PM
Yinzers need to hear it again
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 17, 2020, 04:16:51 PM
you mean the folks from the left coast in the smoke?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 17, 2020, 04:28:11 PM


I like to get my beer at the local Indian Rez because they don't charge sales tax. The last time I was in there, I noticed that they sell a lot of ultra right wing stuff. So now I am trying to figure out if they are actually into that sorta thing, or if they have simply decided to corner that market because they are the only place in town that can sell that stuff without being branded racist. 

I can definitely see them being into the whole second amendment thing because they have been disarmed by the govt before, and it didn't work out too well for them. But the Confederate stuff is a little unexpected. It used to be popular regionally because of the whole "Dixie" thing, but it kind of fell out of favor for the most part by the 1990s. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 17, 2020, 04:33:13 PM
you mean the folks from the left coast in the smoke?
Lots of folks all over in the smoke
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 17, 2020, 04:38:07 PM

I like to get my beer at the local Indian Rez because they don't charge sales tax. The last time I was in there, I noticed that they sell a lot of ultra right wing stuff. So now I am trying to figure out if they are actually into that sorta thing, or if they have simply decided to corner that market because they are the only place in town that can sell that stuff without being branded racist.

I played in a golf tournament for the Native Casino on Monday.

I'd say about the normal split for Trump supporters I spoke with
almost 100% Husker fans
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 17, 2020, 04:43:27 PM
Going with some homebrew club buddies to play 18 on Saturday. Crappy course, but it's only $28/round on the weekend which ain't bad for SoCal. And I suspect they're even worse duffers than me, so it'll probably be a boondoggle.

Trying to decide whether I should "join" my local. It's ~$38/mo and gets me a full bucket at the range every day, and reduces the greens fees for 9 holes on an also pretty crappy par 29 course from $18 to $6. I do need the range time, so I'm really thinking about it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 17, 2020, 04:44:40 PM
Going with some homebrew club buddies to play 18 on Saturday. Crappy course, but it's only $28/round on the weekend which ain't bad for SoCal. And I suspect they're even worse duffers than me, so it'll probably be a boondoggle.

Trying to decide whether I should "join" my local. It's ~$38/mo and gets me a full bucket at the range every day, and reduces the greens fees for 9 holes on an also pretty crappy par 29 course from $18 to $6. I do need the range time, so I'm really thinking about it.
Do they provide free beer?  If so, I say, go for it!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 17, 2020, 04:45:31 PM
A bucket of balls is a great way to get out of the house if it is raining. 

There is a shelter over the tees, and you will have the entire driving range to yourself. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 17, 2020, 04:47:42 PM
Do they provide free beer?  If so, I say, go for it!
Uhh, if they did, I'd have signed up a long time ago!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 17, 2020, 04:51:29 PM
Going with some homebrew club buddies to play 18 on Saturday. Crappy course, but it's only $28/round on the weekend which ain't bad for SoCal. And I suspect they're even worse duffers than me, so it'll probably be a boondoggle.

Trying to decide whether I should "join" my local. It's ~$38/mo and gets me a full bucket at the range every day, and reduces the greens fees for 9 holes on an also pretty crappy par 29 course from $18 to $6. I do need the range time, so I'm really thinking about it.
do it

those little par 29 courses are great for sharpening your game
don't have to hit driver too often
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 17, 2020, 04:59:41 PM
Uhh, if they did, I'd have signed up a long time ago!
I ask because, free beer is absolutely the ONLY way I'd ever agree to anything golf-related.

Even Top Golf-- I'll go there with work peeps when the vendor is paying for all the drinks.  Everyone is so pleased when I give up my turn actually hitting the balls.  I'm pleased too, gives me more time to drink the free hooch.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 17, 2020, 05:10:50 PM
Grain Belt was always the most insanely cheap beer we could buy, but we very rarely did.

When we bought half barrels, it was almost always Busch Light Draft, affordable and drinkable; $33/barrel at Riley's.

Halloween (actually 10/30) 1993, after Wisconsin beat Michigan, we went through the first barrel in like 15 minutes. It was going so quickly that we basically never shut the tap off (kegerator, not hand pump). I'm trying to remember what we bought 12 packs and cases of, but I honestly don't.

We drank Mickeys when we were drinking malt liquor, then my officer basic course roommate had me try OE and one other, but OE was the one that he and I drank when he was "educating me" on Friday, Glory, and some other movies I don't remember (but I do remember those).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 17, 2020, 05:12:55 PM
I think we drank a lot of Miller Genuine Draft, which was stupid. I remember we went through a Red Dog craze, like everyone else at the time. 

To this day I really like Miller High Life and PBR when I'm in the mood for the cheap stuff.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 17, 2020, 05:21:29 PM
don't have to hit driver too often
I have no problem hitting my Woods.It's hitting out of the woods that gives me fits
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 17, 2020, 05:28:30 PM
Going with some homebrew club buddies to play 18 on Saturday. Crappy course, but it's only $28/round on the weekend which ain't bad for SoCal. And I suspect they're even worse duffers than me, so it'll probably be a boondoggle.

Trying to decide whether I should "join" my local. It's ~$38/mo and gets me a full bucket at the range every day, and reduces the greens fees for 9 holes on an also pretty crappy par 29 course from $18 to $6. I do need the range time, so I'm really thinking about it.
Do it!   Use the bucket most days to work on chipping. Your scores will come way down
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 17, 2020, 05:32:17 PM
It's great today we can buy very good beer for $16 a 12 pack.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 17, 2020, 07:13:47 PM


My father still has golf clubs that are made from actual wood. 

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3f/9a/81/3f9a81c9da71e4a3126ab7b2ec64898e.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 17, 2020, 07:52:54 PM

My father still has golf clubs that are made from actual wood.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3f/9a/81/3f9a81c9da71e4a3126ab7b2ec64898e.jpg)
Had an old persimmon driver in my bag that I've had for years, but never hit. Pitched it a few weeks ago when I decided to clean out the bag. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 17, 2020, 08:09:06 PM
Ugh. No NFL Network so I can't watch the game, and no CFB on tonight. That's... annoying. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 17, 2020, 09:38:37 PM

I like to get my beer at the local Indian Rez because they don't charge sales tax. The last time I was in there, I noticed that they sell a lot of ultra right wing stuff. So now I am trying to figure out if they are actually into that sorta thing, or if they have simply decided to corner that market because they are the only place in town that can sell that stuff without being branded racist.

I can definitely see them being into the whole second amendment thing because they have been disarmed by the govt before, and it didn't work out too well for them. But the Confederate stuff is a little unexpected. It used to be popular regionally because of the whole "Dixie" thing, but it kind of fell out of favor for the most part by the 1990s.
There are few things as sweet as happily parting people you don't like from their money.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 17, 2020, 10:25:15 PM
Had an old persimmon driver in my bag that I've had for years, but never hit. Pitched it a few weeks ago when I decided to clean out the bag.
You gotta hit those babies just right for the ball to go anywhere. I worked in the pro shop of a CC when I was in college and the pro had an old persimmon 5 wood he kept on display trying to sell it.  We were dead one day so I snuck it on the driving range and hit a few balls.  Didn’t really hit one good shot with it.

What is a Par 29? That’s an unusual number. Is that seven Par 3s and two par 4s?

Btw, our cheap go to beer in college was Natty Light.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on September 18, 2020, 12:04:07 AM
sounds like one of those 'executive courses' usually in the Par 27-33 range,  pretty much no hole longer than 350, no Par 5s.  the executive can get around the loop in a couple hours if 18 holes (Par 50s-low 60s).    of course (my experience) what ends up happening is you see every 47 handicapper there with a pull cart, lots of pink golf balls and 4 1/2 hour rounds, and you pretty much need to wear a helmet with the errand tee shots and tight routing.   I hate those courses.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 18, 2020, 08:01:41 AM
When I was in college it was Wiedemann's. Cheap and not half bad.


Now when we wanted to go really cheap, we made harry buffalo's. We would "borrow" pure grain alcohol from the chem lab and mix it with kool-aid.
We did that also. I had a friend that was a chem major and he would make up some pure grain alcohol that tested around 190 proof. He lit a shot glass of it one day and I thought it was going to burn the place down. And then we started drinking it. Looking back at that, I wonder how we all survived.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 18, 2020, 08:11:26 AM
Coors skunks if you don't keep it refrigerated from birth to death, and you frequently see it stacked up outside of the refrigerator these days.
When I came back to Ohio from San Antonio, it was requested that I bring some Coors back with me as you could not buy it in Ohio at the time. 

I had a 1971 Chevy Impala that had a very large trunk. We lined it with plastic and then put about 10 cases of Coors in the trunk and filled it with ice. At every gas stop along the way home, we fill the tank with gas and the trunk with more ice. 

After I got back to Ohio, a friend hosted a hog roast. We put the Coors in a big trough with ice. As people showed up, they brought other beers with them and put them in the trough. I drank a lot of beer that night other than Coors. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 18, 2020, 08:12:06 AM
Much of that lab alcohol is denatured with exlax.  If you add base, it turns pink.

The 190 proof is the most you can get from normal distillation.

The 200 pure stuff requires special steps, like adding benzene.  It is very hygroscopic too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 18, 2020, 08:21:12 AM
Much of that lab alcohol is denatured with exlax.  If you add base, it turns pink.

The 190 proof is the most you can get from normal distillation.

The 200 pure stuff requires special steps, like adding benzene.  It is very hygroscopic too.
I'm just echoing what he claimed, he was the chem major. All I know is that it burnt almost like gasoline. And then we were dumb enough to drink it in a "harry buffalo" party. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 18, 2020, 08:44:40 AM
We did that also. I had a friend that was a chem major and he would make up some pure grain alcohol that tested around 190 proof. He lit a shot glass of it one day and I thought it was going to burn the place down. And then we started drinking it. Looking back at that, I wonder how we all survived.
They still sell that 190 proof stuff. Early in my freshman year my roommate had a bottle which I sampled. Led to me making a low-end scene at a hockey game (someone had non-student tickets. My wording was not ideal with the children around).

Another friend suggested a drinking game with it called Russian roulette. Six people, five shots of vodka, one shot of, well...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 18, 2020, 08:48:13 AM
Ugh. No NFL Network so I can't watch the game, and no CFB on tonight. That's... annoying.
you need to upgrade your cable package
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 18, 2020, 08:50:01 AM
We did that also. I had a friend that was a chem major and he would make up some pure grain alcohol that tested around 190 proof. He lit a shot glass of it one day and I thought it was going to burn the place down. And then we started drinking it. Looking back at that, I wonder how we all survived.
oh you survived, but there was some brain damage
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 18, 2020, 10:04:23 AM
What is a Par 29? That’s an unusual number. Is that seven Par 3s and two par 4s?
That's it exactly. Even the par 4s are only 210 and 270 yards. Short holes but you're usually hitting into tiny greens, so there is at least some challenge there. 
sounds like one of those 'executive courses' usually in the Par 27-33 range,  pretty much no hole longer than 350, no Par 5s.  the executive can get around the loop in a couple hours if 18 holes (Par 50s-low 60s).    of course (my experience) what ends up happening is you see every 47 handicapper there with a pull cart, lots of pink golf balls and 4 1/2 hour rounds, and you pretty much need to wear a helmet with the errand tee shots and tight routing.  I hate those courses.
That's what I was worried about first time I went, but actually made it around 9 holes in a little over 90 minutes. I was pretty surprised. I was matched up with a guy who was pretty good. He shot a 30 and I shot a 34. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 18, 2020, 11:02:36 AM
along with the muni course I play, 

7,085 yards of golf from the longest tees for a par of 72. The course rating is 74 and it has a slope rating of 123.

the city also operates a sister course that I can play when the big course is closed for a tournament or an outing.

18-hole Floyd Park course provides a great golf option for all golfer levels. The course features 4,067 yards of golf from the longest tees for a par of 63, and features hilly terrain, some water hazards, and mature trees. The course rating is 62.2 and it has a slope rating of 103.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 18, 2020, 11:11:58 AM
Where we're playing tomorrow is about 1400 yards on the front and 2000 on the back. Good day to work on iron play. 

What I don't like about that course is that the tees are hitting off range mats. Only course I've ever been on like that. Even my crappy par 29 has grass tees. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 18, 2020, 11:22:06 AM
short irons and wedges on the front

mats would be low maintenance, but I'd hate them

the 4,000 yard course here has one par 5 on each side
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 18, 2020, 11:28:40 AM
That's it exactly. Even the par 4s are only 210 and 270 yards. Short holes but you're usually hitting into tiny greens, so there is at least some challenge there. That's what I was worried about first time I went, but actually made it around 9 holes in a little over 90 minutes. I was pretty surprised. I was matched up with a guy who was pretty good. He shot a 30 and I shot a 34.
We call those chip and putt courses

great place to practice your short game
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on September 18, 2020, 11:39:31 AM
Should be a lot easier to find considering Four Peaks is owned by AB/Inbev.
Yeah, I was worried when they sold out, but so far the quality has remained and I have found it outside the phoenix area on occasion but still not very often.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 18, 2020, 11:42:23 AM
I always thought it was called Twin Peaks?


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unJTMg064whbhKwpRKsyHFJFcxuA7oQrw2OE2uuSaThSXG0pA9EKSlSuJoASYccRNtcgyOrIFKlIIKSQQagjIgjgdxhnb2jzyU6tqUBSqkqqek0UATxyh4vPdqz5WTeeMskKQ2SmpVTEeaka61IER119nLHIIdmQXXVJCiMXNRUVw0GZOYqeOlN%2BLxsNxzNGscKadJiqxtLn0kk8kexQ7iFVh2udtcK1pbfBQSaAqViSSd2M85B%2FWqI8Td%2BynSptLTBWmoUlpfOTx81VRwhDvxddEmpC0EqZdqBizKFDPCeIocj0GvGHCcJOlaZU4zirdNHUUlNJcSFJ09oPAxnirNidvl5nklElSKtknfhAUg61rhURX5kWmI6IO1qZSVBBBBFkhBBBAAQQQQAEEEEAENfB0Jk3q%2BknB65CP4o51vBdacdnJh5LaSlbq1Jo62ThzIyxV83OOoVoBFCAQdxhH2nYGpclKUpKW311AAOTSkD2uCM5p7opU9Gc%2B2DLh2Zl0gA43m%2FtAn2Re16n1Ikplzm1DLlSTn5pAA79IpfZZKldoS41wlS8%2BhJPAxbe1R8osqZNalWBA1pRS0jLsrHPj64kUXhaRYg7B0nyl8j5EDsKxXhwiS26NEiTbTmpS3ABQ6nABnvzMYtgWEPzJNMmU6kD0v8oZ7%2FAMqH7UshsCqUuOOKpwSW1%2Fw07YcnWNfvYF5KHqybPS0y20AaNtpRQ0HmgJGXZFSfhAy5DsjStVB0Drqin1xcSHlE7gPbFc7UrM5afshAqqr5Br8UKbUrd8UGIwms1jltQ7IdblJNKdAwxTTQIR1cBFKbDyV2ktatSy6o5bypA%2B%2BLY2mvlqy5tZoAprAPpkI%2Fiit%2Fwf5ceVvqO6Xp6y0n%2BGLgnkk2TJ6oZdv6yLPaFCKzKO4Ic%2B%2BM2wFH4lME75j6m0f3xqfhCu%2Fisqmur5NK8EEfxRJbDGqWas%2FGmF59SUD7orbDJfmGDaBKh2zpxASa8gtQ60jGPqhf2GN%2FktGZFXnTrr5oh9el8aVJVmFJKe%2FKFHY1KFFmJQRXC8%2BD2LKfuiI6xa6lPcqrbMr8rq6Gmvs1iOu2D5XLftmvtiJDbEPyy4OCGvsiNO7f%2FFy2f9O19sRuvKjGXmL6v02Pc6eNf%2BWe%2BwqKv%2FB2Pws2OLTZ%2FeV%2FfFq36A9zp0V%2F5Z4fuGKo%2FB1zmJof9FH2zER8jRo9ywb01Fp2UeKpoaH5Gv3RGbaGfyU8aZBbR0%2BeB98TV600tGyTmfhnx3sKjS2zmtkTI3%2FBH%2B1RE5dV74lXoc8ysukpqUiHXZTJpNqMHTCHV%2F2ak%2FxQo2aebFj7F2wZ9Ss%2BawvdxUkRtPZmK8xbhaRUJBzpipXcMjTPj9cc8bS5DkbWmBucKXE9OJIJ%2FexDsi8bSncNqy7O5yVeoKUzStCh7Eqit9vtnYXpSYAPPStsnpSQpOfTjPcYwwo1L5m03aGfZEgmQFD5rrgOp1ooZAgel7Y0RYpcvA4%2BRk3LoXp6SgWU5HoSrujNsUmPxV8bw8CN%2BRQP8Jh%2B5BAcW7hGJwISo13IxFP21d8ZzeWUioO4orHbnamCUalxq8uu%2FNKM9P1lJ7od7Ae5SVYcSrNbTatOKRXPfFMbY7V5a0uTHmsISj6RGNW%2F5wH0YszZdbPKSDaAUhTA5NWlaDzDmd6aDTUEboMSFYS97jjLxtFd3NTyNvOtkarfR051WPqhn2ySYMgFg1KHkk11AIKdO6IK%2FjC5C1UWghIWhxQXwGPDhWk0rSo5w6zwjRvZtAXOSy5dUshIXSigskghQVWmEcPbF5XOcZrYWZRTiye2DzdHXE%2FOQe8LQfu7ov0RzPsemCicKTlVvF6i0H6iY6ZEdEPNJGb8qCCCCNCQggggAIIIIACCCCAAir9t82EyzufODGED9q82n7LavbFoGKT29TZ5NacqKcYb6ealx0j%2B0ETLYaFTYswozqlAeYwoVpoVFKR7Kw2bb5giz20VPPfT20So8Y0dhMqfxpwcG0faV%2FdGLb4%2BoeSNGuZcXn0YQMh1mOZq8ZGif%2BM%2BNg7PwsyaD82js5yosp%2Bzwu0GXSKhqXd6ectaAKV6Eriu9hYOOapTzGxn1qyi2i3nizqBTIa7xmRpEYrqbCCuJoP2qEzjUuk1xsuuGhHoqbSn7Su6Na15TlJ%2BSVkeSS%2B5XhzUIHtXC4zPcpeVTYUSGpMo10JIcP2hFgLlk4wuvOAKRQnQkE%2B1I7olpx%2Bg9GVxt6nCmQbbyHKvJBHQlKlceOGIjYKzRU0rLzWk7uKzGv8AhAzlX5RgbkKdIz9I4U%2FYMTOwpj4KZV89tP7pP3xtVYRF%2BM0fwgMkSacVarcOg3BI4Qz7F2SLLQR6Tzp9uH%2BGFD8INXw0kmvouHvKR9xh52RM0spjWpU6dOLioH%2FrQX4hvQkg66GI261n8k06io%2F4iYUOpTqlj2KEfFhTYXMTrZzLbyOwKZb%2B8GJrEKEU39OcZpVoU9TnHa4fyy9%2Bq39gRr3cp5XLft2vtiMm1RX5ZmOjkx%2B4mMV2%2FwDi5b9u19sR1LZGEtzo%2B2JATDDzBJSHW1t4gNAoYSRxOcLFwrhNWYtxbbrjqnEhBxpAAAOLIDU14xP3pmFIk5paFFKksOKSoAgghBIIPGsc1ovRaD6aLnpojeOVWAewHOMoptaM0bS3LnvZeJpdr2ZKoUFuNvLW5hpzMTZSlJ%2BdmTTdlDVeOyG5yXdlnMaUOgBRRQKyUFChII1SN0c%2B3Algi0pRdSTywqeNajXti8NoExSzZsoK0qSyogg0IpQ6jSFiaNJMcXabFtWx%2BTbQopenMkkgFTdKgEj%2BiiB2Cv43ZpwJzS02nXeVKOXqxW0ta0woZzMz%2FwB1f%2BKLP2Fsobbm1585bafVSo%2FxxU7jBtsmKTlojfvvaRbt6yyRSiVJpr%2BcKm9%2FXGzttlS7ZpcI%2FMOIXqMqnkzkP1xCjtdZfNpMOsMOrDTbagUpUoYgtSqVA6B3xZl52vKZR5oNqPKtrApTWlU9xAjGU8uRmqjdoQths4aTadfzKvtp49UWkEk1yyPH%2FwDUUnsRmiH30gVKmk5dSv8A7RcZeXTzFDsp%2FrtjP%2F0aYjLwl4TmeefW5MvOOAhanFFQPompqD1adkS92redlHw6jNJ5q07lJ%2BrENQdx6zEjtTsrkJzyhKSG5jM8A4mgUK0pnkrtMKyF%2FwCqR2pqcOjOeScZF%2FzTTE9KkZONPJyOQPQfmrSe4iKMt2xXZR9TDuozSoaLTuI%2BojcQYm7k3nVKucmsnkFnPfgVpiFdx3jt3Q93usNM6wRQ401U2unmq4E%2FFVkD2HdHLFvBlT2Z0ZVjQtbmhs%2BsaVeCHpXmTFFNrDjyqJJGdAEmtRmCfrEXqgZCOSrn20qUm0qVUAnk3RwzpXrSrPsMdU2NO8syhzeRn1jI%2B3646oLLJoxesUb0EEEakBBBBAAQQQQAEEEEAHhjnzbpNAuNJHpvvLP0EtsD2oVHQZjmTa7MYpqXTwZU5%2F3XXHPqIiXugLD2DSyRIOuGnwj57koSn68UJm3ubCp9hsaNsA6b1KUfuEWdsfkwiypc1zXjX6y1U9gim9sMzylsvj5MNo%2FcCj7VGMo6zbKflHLYLgrNZjzWh21XFwcmnL%2B6Kk2DoP43ofzWfrxZd5Z0S8pMP%2FJsrUOsJOEd9IznrIcfKU5s7tDl7xzDpOS%2FKKfqg0T%2B6BF74R%2FoRzVsTXS1Gid6HR%2B7HSKOFBn0mKxHToI6o5z2zTgctdwA1DTbbefVjP24sLYSj8VmD%2F6inc0j%2B%2BKbvPNl60JtzXE%2B5TqCiEjuAi7NiKFCz1HD58w4e5KE%2FwAMXiaRJjrISfwgHqz8sj4suFestf8Ahi0dlrZFlytKZoJ71ExUO3RdbUQKnKXbH7yz98XDs5TSzJIBVPgEHvz%2B%2BJk%2FAhpeIhLpTp93rWYqM0tLA%2FUSlJ%2B2O6LECOrsikbBn8F65gE%2FnC412hAUPsRdNCTrEzaTGkc0bTs7am%2BhSB%2B4mC7g%2FG5b9u19sRi2lLHuxNn56fsJj4u06PLJb9u19sRtwRlLc6Qvc3%2BIzf7B37BjlSyNI6qvU7WTmhxYd3%2FMMcpWWrKJg006KmhruaaT8of%2Buj66Rel%2FWgbNnRT%2FAJd06fNJ%2B6KCuu9Sdlf27X2xHRV70hUlNjiw6P3TEz3QYexynZyubF57GGKSLixTnPK7aJSPuii7MpSOitj0qBZTR%2BOt4%2F2ikj7MPGVxCHmNG8O0eTlH1S7gexoCcQQkEc5IUM8QqaEROWRPJmGW321fBuJxJBGdKkGtNCCKGKJ2nUNsTYGgUhPc2lP3RbexiZC7P5PKrLq0mo3KPKj7ZjDEwEop8TaOI81CJcCz%2FJ7dmZbQAPAAcKpWj92LKvbNeStNPFRDfLIQ4TkAldUV%2BiSD2QsWpIli88s4kUEy0a9YaW2fspif2uJK7ImQB5obV3OJJ9lYJxUppvikOLaTo1r7XW8qk3GhUuJ57dR6Sc6V6RUdsVfszu4zPrebfU4koSkpwEDUlJrUHoi4dldvCds9srNXWvgnM9SPMV9JND11hfsmwBKW%2B8kABqbYW4gcFBSStPYcR6lCHG4RcLFJqTTYj7T7nt2d5OWy4pLpWFFZBoRhIpQDcT3Q%2B7P21PWey4cS8i2ePMJSDXflSNHbvKK8iZVuQ8Onzkq39nsjf2CzQXIONnMtvqFDwUlKvrxQTWfCVji8k9Cpto9m8haLyAKBWFY%2BkBX21jonZo5ikm1UoFpQ4PpIST7QYp3bzKhM%2By4AAHGAMtKpUr7iItDY7N47PYHxW8HqLUn6jG0f%2BffvYhvWQ%2FQQQRuZhBBBAAQQQQAeExgfnW0UC1hJOgJ%2B6M5ijrzTM3OWgzItPqYDyFvrW35xSCotDUEAIQkAAgc6piJya2HFWXDOWs2ELKVBSglRCRmSQKgUjl7aE8TaDiD%2FAETbLQH6raajrxVh1fuwWypKrxOIINKcoag6KCgHsjEcvZ7JrUXF22ypSjUleAk9ZL1SYzWIr1fZluGmhad0bdkWJKVZVNy4UhltJq6jI4Ri9LWtY5%2FvZOB%2B0pt1JCkqeXhINagGgIO8UENitnspp7qMEHfVuvcXPvjM1s%2BkU5%2B68unrSju%2FO09sKM4LX8EuMqJfYrazDCZovvNNYlN05RSU1FFVIqemJnbDeyWVZjjTEy04t1SEUbcSo4a4lGgOQomnbCuNn8if0zLdzfix8%2B9lIa%2B7Mt6qPFgWVuxK0qF%2FZLMoatBha1JQkYwVKIAFUHedM4va0b4ySGXVialyUtrUAHUEkhJIAANSailOmKtb2cSQGVty3qo8WPlezOQOtsy3qt%2BLDlFSdgm0VfIAqJUTUkknri%2FtlVryrFnNIdmmG1lbqilbiEkVWaZE10pCm3s2kRpbUuOxvxY%2Bjs5kTrbMuexHixUqkJWnYsbXZ5t61FracS6gNtgKQoKBNKmhGWRMXPc235Jqz5NDk1LIUmXaCkqdQCDhFQQTkQYrsbM7PH6Zl%2B5Hix6vZtIEU92pfub8WE0mkh27Fn3VQm31TKVAtidJxA5FGPCTXSmE1rwi%2FwBd6JMZCdlh1vI%2FxRUadmkinMWzLdyPFj6Xs3kVa2xLdyPFiZqMhptCXfuaQ5as04lSVpU5kpJBBFAKgjIiC7ykpm5dSsISHmyScgAFgkk8KQ5e9nIjMWzLDsR4sZPe8k%2F65le5HixbkqJpt2WNeK8UkZWYSmblqlpwAB1BJJScgK11jmaQ0iz1bN5A%2FpiW9VHix6jZrIDS2pYfRR4sTBRitBytiRYUzSZYUSAEvNEk6ABaSSTwjo6ZvRIkKQuclSlVQQXUUIORB52kVT73El%2FXct6qPFj5c2ayJH89S3qt%2BLCmlLiEbXAfPIrv0y9zh1Ka%2FviakLfs5lCWmZmUbbTklKXWwE1NTQV4kntipTszkP64lu5vxYPeykP64l%2FVb8WE4rmyrfITr3TYetObcQoKSp5VFAggjQEEajKH%2FYxbrTC5pt5xDaVpbWkrUEjEkqSqhVTOhT6sajeziQGlsy%2FcjxYyq2dSB%2FTUv3I8WLlKMlRFNOxivta0qqdsyYRNMK5J9SF4XUGiFjUkHIAp1%2BdEpfe3ZNyz5tpE3LKUplYADyCSaVAAxZ5iEQ7M7POfuzLeqjxY8VszkNPdqW9VHixnljprsXmfIh9jd4Ey03gcUEsvjCoqOSVCpbUa5Aapr84Rad9LflQhEyxNSy35VXKJQHkVWkjA8gUNaqQTTpSIRBs1kRpbMt3I8WMatmkkdbYlu5vxYclFu%2FwCbWg9fynsy0GQkuMrSrNTLxCVAjPMK6d4rEhZk%2FZkkyoIclJcKOIpC0g1pTrUaZZRWPvcSWnuvL9zfixgVs4kgf52Yp%2Bq3X%2F5fqjPLDm6%2BRpcmtiL2o3qbn5pJYryLKMCVEUxEmqlU3Dh1Rd2y6Q8lkJdLvMUUFZB3FxRXTsFIqhFwJJBFLZZB10Ru4c%2BNy1rImWmHZpi3HZjkhiKUuEjLOh%2BEI0zpQ6Rpnjoo%2FknJLVs6ESoHSPYUdmlqrmJRDiyKrQheQoASCFAdGJJPbDdG8ZZlZnJU6CCCCKEEEEEAGtaUzybTjnxEKX3An7oo66JBtp9SuciXlUNDsS2Dn2L74t%2B%2Bi6STwrTGA2OtxQbHtVFG3RnikWxMnMELGLPcF0%2BsZRz4%2B38fdm2EvfyQhtvBxbjhHnrUvvNYcrSubKy9A%2FacuhZbDgb5FZNCCQKhVK5UhJstsHCDlUgE7gCcyeyLWvVeRSg8GLSk0tFsoDZbSpyhFCMdK1zNKaZQpt5qIUbTYp3WumqeZdebASGkmgKc1rAxFAz4b%2BkRmujdSXnwgInGm3VlVGVNqKqJzJJBA0FYYJW%2FMvJuS8lLtocYawBcyVGuJeTq00y0Ua9o3RG3ZmpWVticUl5ssIaeLSq0SpSwkhCa6kVUBTWkLXUHFaGKUuRLuqWWp9hxllBW%2B9yagloDQYSarJoo5aYekQvWvIyrb3JsPpmEYQoOhGEEnVNCSQREtsveWzieTPS8qAoJcQ9nyiNa036kZZ13xHXstCXennnJVA5AkUoMIKqDEUppkCa5du%2BK4tE1pZhkbEW9jDTRcLaC4qg81I1P%2BWp3RqhlOoSkjiIa7nXuMi3MAN4y4nE3nSjgyGLeUUNadHTChKlYrioSSVUyGZNTQD6oSb1CtBpsy57Tku0%2B5Nsy%2FLKUhCXEGiiCRTGDlWnDfH1JXIUqdXJOrQypLanSvDjSUAihFCCQanpFDlEnPMSUxZ0i2%2FPMy4ZK1upzW4cRqUhAzrQ%2B0Rkl71yz9ozEwkpbZbs9xhku5cooEKTkTUlVVZcBEXKrXX9F5Y8SDtS6AaclAl5p1qcUlLTyEkCpUE5pOeWKuu4jKNiz7hLfmJ2WacQVydBUoI5UmtAOccGhzNd0bc3bErNLsud5ZLPIPNNuSpOFLeFQWXEfFRkNcqADUER8tXlQ2bbdbeSl111KmFBWasKyQU8RQgxWte%2BYsqF9diAST04rLkXwwpoozxUFamuVK0pTdrE87cApfW2pxCWGmkuuTK0YUJqCoIpiqpXUdDXgDlvheqWm7KASEtzLz7an2xXNQThU5wAICc%2FvidvbeKRn1rs519KG8CHGZlCiUcoE5pcAyIrX6siBBqGWIqs3Rl0yzczNTbUuHklTKC2pRWBmCSCMFctR6QhXY5NQqEgdB3RYdkWqxLyJbnJ%2BUmpYtfBywSS6hRHNSPSRSvpadEVxIKJTzhnTWHrRDSJFVlEMpfLVGlLLaV7ioaj%2FXA8I9s6yuWdbZQlONxQQmulTxPDf2RO2ze9blkokEtpxhQSpdBTk0nEjCNy65E9HTEDYTZLrQ5YMqxCjysggjMKJGmY16YLdWKlwJS8N2GJdaWG5lE1Ml0NKYbaUlSVEE1qo0IrQbvOj7t%2B6rEm2vl52X8pQkHyZCSpVcuaV1ok0NdIYLyXqYZMm446zOzzLwUXGEgUbFQpKlaFRB03EVoIgb02VJO%2BUzrFoNfCBThYdBDuI5lKanOpOWWXTSGnzKcUZ7wXKlJQqQ9aTAdSjGGuRXVVRiSK4iBXjGjadzltSDNoCi2XE4lBKc2q5JxcQTkSNCemsPV5LxcsCWLWkG2iyEltaUKUThIVRWoJ0HCFtq%2BiZaWskJUl9vkXmZtioNUFSaBQ0CqVIr1aEwJtpDcUjXFwk%2BXJkeWTiVLeUBfJ5EfEpj6Na9kR93rpeUy5m3HWZSWrh5R7PErQhKRSueWsN6rwyXu9LPNvtiXEoWiomiU81eBKir0swKa1hWsKYlZyzW7PmJjyVyXdUtpxSSptdSSQqmnnHWm7XMQrda9ApEbL2Uw7OiVRMNlClpQJjAQk1FahNa%2BdzaV13xs2fdFTloLkDhQtsrxLIqAlIxBdKjIgppn6UR9oSrbLpaS%2B2%2FQA8o15uedAa5EQ%2BWrfBj3OcmwU%2B6LrQlFZ86mI1cp0pNa8aDdCbfDiCSFBd2U8lKOpdSpE2%2BphJCDRJC%2BTCtecDruyjLb11paVK0LtBgutqSlTfJLBFSATWpGQOKm%2BkZRababJkEconlZed5QorzgmpVXoGcNV%2Fbd5dM0GrUkeQWg0ZCElZAAqkLpWpUMjXfBbv6lVoK7dxHFT5kQtGTXLB1SCElug52GpI5xw0rEbL3cKmZl1SkoMu6lnAU5rWVYaA1yzINaUoYapW%2BSE2OVhYE822JVBJ55bxAhXYn2p6Y0toN5WZiSlw0UB2ZdD0wlGqVhCUHFwNQKaVCawk5N1%2FA6jRF3puy1JJIXNsrfThJYS0oGhOoWTQ0104xLbPihyWn2KD4RoEZbylSdO6Mt4bRaEgtqam5abeAAli0n4RJ4qUM6deuetYjtlUyROFFCMbKhQCuYKVDLgKGJk28NsuMUppFibBZ8KlEIoKpDia7zhWDTsDgi1xFJbEVqbfmWK81uZWCMt6Snr1bHdF2COnD4%2FP9mWItvl%2Bj2CCCNCAggggAVdo7pTKpoaVdSchU80KdFB1oEUjc1tpdmOsLmmmOWWcRUaqGafQqMVQn2x0VbNmImGi0uoBoQpJoUqBqlQPEEdR0NQYrdexiXUoqVySiTWoS6mv0Uu4R2U7IxxYN9u3zNsOSS%2Bvcrhu6UoE5WmyacUpH1uDKNpu5UoaYrUYOlKJRTPfXlYffeXlfiNd7%2FjQI2Kytc0tH%2Fv%2BNGeWfX%2Bo7h07iSu5Ekk%2FwA7MnqSj6%2BVj1NyZQ0%2FKzFN%2FNRl3uw7nYxKfEa73%2FGjInY1JUzaaPTif8WDJLm%2B3qK49O4km48kP0uznl5iPFjMzcKRIqbWYH0W%2FGhzTsckfkGT9OY8aD3nJH5Br1pjxoag%2BvYluPuxN%2FkPInS12PVb8WMExcyTFKWsyenCjxYdXdjUmdGmk%2FSmD%2F5oxjYtKZ81s8M3sv7XOE4S69hrL07iOm5sqcharFK0OScuzlM%2ByMn8hpIH%2BdmejmoP%2Flyh395iT%2BTa73%2FGjxOxmUrm20e1%2FwAaFkl1%2Fr6lXDp3EoXMk8vyqx6qfEgNypMZ%2B6rHc39XKw6%2B8xKU%2FNtV41f8aPlGxaUGqGj2v%2BLBkl1%2Fr6i8HTuJP8j5KmVqsjrDefZysfYuVIb7Wa9RH3Ow6jYxJ%2FJt97%2Fix9J2MSe9to%2FSf8WDJLr29QuHTuJ4uDJHP3Yl%2B1KPFrHn8hJMaWvLnsR4sOStjUn8k160x40fXvOSXyDPrTHjw8j69vUnTp3EpNypM6Wsx6qPFjw3GlM%2FyvL0%2FVT4sO42OSPyDPrTPjR6djsj8gz68x40Hw5c32C48l3EhVw5I%2FpeX9VHjQJuJJEfzxL%2BqnxYeDsdkP8A%2Bdn15jxo%2BPebkvkWfWmPGh5H17Ba92I67gyQ%2FTEtT9VHiwC4kmAfyvL9WBPiw8nY3I%2FIteu%2F4seDY1I%2FIt%2Bu%2FwCLCyS69guPTuJSbgyZB%2FLEv1YU%2FXyucfabgyX9cS%2FcjxIcF7GJLc02PpP%2BLHydjMn8m13v%2BNBll17eo%2FD07iebhSf9cS%2FYEeLGQ3GlB%2BmGD2N%2BLDb7zUn8kz3zHjwDY1KfJMd8x48GSXXsLTp3E8XGkhra7A6ko8WPhdw5LdbEuejCgf8Alh1GxySp%2BYZ9aY8aPDsakvkmvWf8WFklzfYLj07iSq40kBla7Hqt%2BLHhuLJAZWuzn8xHjQ7jY3J%2FJM98x40fHvMylPzbNeNZjxoMkuvb1K8PTuIqrlyQHOtVmnQEHqy5WN%2B71gyMrMIeFqMrw15pwpxAggivKGmvshvTsbk6fmWT04pjxoPeakvkmvWf8WE8OT0bfb1GpRTtJdxTuS8lNtzfIrxoU42sKSapOJaQcxl%2FSEdhi%2BhCddXZ%2FLySsTYAzxBKQaV3EqUpSlU3CtOiHERvhRa396EYkk6PYIII1Mz%2F2Q%3D%3D&hash=bd0622a7b22e3d2167cb6336793e5ecf)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on September 18, 2020, 11:43:56 AM
We did that also. I had a friend that was a chem major and he would make up some pure grain alcohol that tested around 190 proof. He lit a shot glass of it one day and I thought it was going to burn the place down. And then we started drinking it. Looking back at that, I wonder how we all survived.
Particularly when Benzene was used to get the last bit of water out of it.

Stuff went down too easy, then it would suddenly hit you and you were pretty sloppy drunk. Not smart at all. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on September 18, 2020, 11:46:23 AM
Much of that lab alcohol is denatured with exlax.  If you add base, it turns pink.

The 190 proof is the most you can get from normal distillation.

The 200 pure stuff requires special steps, like adding benzene.  It is very hygroscopic too.
Saw this after my post. Again wasn't smart to use the stuff, nothing like being young and dumb. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 18, 2020, 12:02:06 PM
I always thought it was called Twin Peaks?


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unJTMg064whbhKwpRKsyHFJFcxuA7oQrw2OE2uuSaThSXG0pA9EKSlSuJoASYccRNtcgyOrIFKlIIKSQQagjIgjgdxhnb2jzyU6tqUBSqkqqek0UATxyh4vPdqz5WTeeMskKQ2SmpVTEeaka61IER119nLHIIdmQXXVJCiMXNRUVw0GZOYqeOlN%2BLxsNxzNGscKadJiqxtLn0kk8kexQ7iFVh2udtcK1pbfBQSaAqViSSd2M85B%2FWqI8Td%2BynSptLTBWmoUlpfOTx81VRwhDvxddEmpC0EqZdqBizKFDPCeIocj0GvGHCcJOlaZU4zirdNHUUlNJcSFJ09oPAxnirNidvl5nklElSKtknfhAUg61rhURX5kWmI6IO1qZSVBBBBFkhBBBAAQQQQAEEEEAENfB0Jk3q%2BknB65CP4o51vBdacdnJh5LaSlbq1Jo62ThzIyxV83OOoVoBFCAQdxhH2nYGpclKUpKW311AAOTSkD2uCM5p7opU9Gc%2B2DLh2Zl0gA43m%2FtAn2Re16n1Ikplzm1DLlSTn5pAA79IpfZZKldoS41wlS8%2BhJPAxbe1R8osqZNalWBA1pRS0jLsrHPj64kUXhaRYg7B0nyl8j5EDsKxXhwiS26NEiTbTmpS3ABQ6nABnvzMYtgWEPzJNMmU6kD0v8oZ7%2FAMqH7UshsCqUuOOKpwSW1%2Fw07YcnWNfvYF5KHqybPS0y20AaNtpRQ0HmgJGXZFSfhAy5DsjStVB0Drqin1xcSHlE7gPbFc7UrM5afshAqqr5Br8UKbUrd8UGIwms1jltQ7IdblJNKdAwxTTQIR1cBFKbDyV2ktatSy6o5bypA%2B%2BLY2mvlqy5tZoAprAPpkI%2Fiit%2Fwf5ceVvqO6Xp6y0n%2BGLgnkk2TJ6oZdv6yLPaFCKzKO4Ic%2B%2BM2wFH4lME75j6m0f3xqfhCu%2Fisqmur5NK8EEfxRJbDGqWas%2FGmF59SUD7orbDJfmGDaBKh2zpxASa8gtQ60jGPqhf2GN%2FktGZFXnTrr5oh9el8aVJVmFJKe%2FKFHY1KFFmJQRXC8%2BD2LKfuiI6xa6lPcqrbMr8rq6Gmvs1iOu2D5XLftmvtiJDbEPyy4OCGvsiNO7f%2FFy2f9O19sRuvKjGXmL6v02Pc6eNf%2BWe%2BwqKv%2FB2Pws2OLTZ%2FeV%2FfFq36A9zp0V%2F5Z4fuGKo%2FB1zmJof9FH2zER8jRo9ywb01Fp2UeKpoaH5Gv3RGbaGfyU8aZBbR0%2BeB98TV600tGyTmfhnx3sKjS2zmtkTI3%2FBH%2B1RE5dV74lXoc8ysukpqUiHXZTJpNqMHTCHV%2F2ak%2FxQo2aebFj7F2wZ9Ss%2BawvdxUkRtPZmK8xbhaRUJBzpipXcMjTPj9cc8bS5DkbWmBucKXE9OJIJ%2FexDsi8bSncNqy7O5yVeoKUzStCh7Eqit9vtnYXpSYAPPStsnpSQpOfTjPcYwwo1L5m03aGfZEgmQFD5rrgOp1ooZAgel7Y0RYpcvA4%2BRk3LoXp6SgWU5HoSrujNsUmPxV8bw8CN%2BRQP8Jh%2B5BAcW7hGJwISo13IxFP21d8ZzeWUioO4orHbnamCUalxq8uu%2FNKM9P1lJ7od7Ae5SVYcSrNbTatOKRXPfFMbY7V5a0uTHmsISj6RGNW%2F5wH0YszZdbPKSDaAUhTA5NWlaDzDmd6aDTUEboMSFYS97jjLxtFd3NTyNvOtkarfR051WPqhn2ySYMgFg1KHkk11AIKdO6IK%2FjC5C1UWghIWhxQXwGPDhWk0rSo5w6zwjRvZtAXOSy5dUshIXSigskghQVWmEcPbF5XOcZrYWZRTiye2DzdHXE%2FOQe8LQfu7ov0RzPsemCicKTlVvF6i0H6iY6ZEdEPNJGb8qCCCCNCQggggAIIIIACCCCAAir9t82EyzufODGED9q82n7LavbFoGKT29TZ5NacqKcYb6ealx0j%2B0ETLYaFTYswozqlAeYwoVpoVFKR7Kw2bb5giz20VPPfT20So8Y0dhMqfxpwcG0faV%2FdGLb4%2BoeSNGuZcXn0YQMh1mOZq8ZGif%2BM%2BNg7PwsyaD82js5yosp%2Bzwu0GXSKhqXd6ectaAKV6Eriu9hYOOapTzGxn1qyi2i3nizqBTIa7xmRpEYrqbCCuJoP2qEzjUuk1xsuuGhHoqbSn7Su6Na15TlJ%2BSVkeSS%2B5XhzUIHtXC4zPcpeVTYUSGpMo10JIcP2hFgLlk4wuvOAKRQnQkE%2B1I7olpx%2Bg9GVxt6nCmQbbyHKvJBHQlKlceOGIjYKzRU0rLzWk7uKzGv8AhAzlX5RgbkKdIz9I4U%2FYMTOwpj4KZV89tP7pP3xtVYRF%2BM0fwgMkSacVarcOg3BI4Qz7F2SLLQR6Tzp9uH%2BGFD8INXw0kmvouHvKR9xh52RM0spjWpU6dOLioH%2FrQX4hvQkg66GI261n8k06io%2F4iYUOpTqlj2KEfFhTYXMTrZzLbyOwKZb%2B8GJrEKEU39OcZpVoU9TnHa4fyy9%2Bq39gRr3cp5XLft2vtiMm1RX5ZmOjkx%2B4mMV2%2FwDi5b9u19sR1LZGEtzo%2B2JATDDzBJSHW1t4gNAoYSRxOcLFwrhNWYtxbbrjqnEhBxpAAAOLIDU14xP3pmFIk5paFFKksOKSoAgghBIIPGsc1ovRaD6aLnpojeOVWAewHOMoptaM0bS3LnvZeJpdr2ZKoUFuNvLW5hpzMTZSlJ%2BdmTTdlDVeOyG5yXdlnMaUOgBRRQKyUFChII1SN0c%2B3Algi0pRdSTywqeNajXti8NoExSzZsoK0qSyogg0IpQ6jSFiaNJMcXabFtWx%2BTbQopenMkkgFTdKgEj%2BiiB2Cv43ZpwJzS02nXeVKOXqxW0ta0woZzMz%2FwB1f%2BKLP2Fsobbm1585bafVSo%2FxxU7jBtsmKTlojfvvaRbt6yyRSiVJpr%2BcKm9%2FXGzttlS7ZpcI%2FMOIXqMqnkzkP1xCjtdZfNpMOsMOrDTbagUpUoYgtSqVA6B3xZl52vKZR5oNqPKtrApTWlU9xAjGU8uRmqjdoQths4aTadfzKvtp49UWkEk1yyPH%2FwDUUnsRmiH30gVKmk5dSv8A7RcZeXTzFDsp%2FrtjP%2F0aYjLwl4TmeefW5MvOOAhanFFQPompqD1adkS92redlHw6jNJ5q07lJ%2BrENQdx6zEjtTsrkJzyhKSG5jM8A4mgUK0pnkrtMKyF%2FwCqR2pqcOjOeScZF%2FzTTE9KkZONPJyOQPQfmrSe4iKMt2xXZR9TDuozSoaLTuI%2BojcQYm7k3nVKucmsnkFnPfgVpiFdx3jt3Q93usNM6wRQ401U2unmq4E%2FFVkD2HdHLFvBlT2Z0ZVjQtbmhs%2BsaVeCHpXmTFFNrDjyqJJGdAEmtRmCfrEXqgZCOSrn20qUm0qVUAnk3RwzpXrSrPsMdU2NO8syhzeRn1jI%2B3646oLLJoxesUb0EEEakBBBBAAQQQQAEEEEAHhjnzbpNAuNJHpvvLP0EtsD2oVHQZjmTa7MYpqXTwZU5%2F3XXHPqIiXugLD2DSyRIOuGnwj57koSn68UJm3ubCp9hsaNsA6b1KUfuEWdsfkwiypc1zXjX6y1U9gim9sMzylsvj5MNo%2FcCj7VGMo6zbKflHLYLgrNZjzWh21XFwcmnL%2B6Kk2DoP43ofzWfrxZd5Z0S8pMP%2FJsrUOsJOEd9IznrIcfKU5s7tDl7xzDpOS%2FKKfqg0T%2B6BF74R%2FoRzVsTXS1Gid6HR%2B7HSKOFBn0mKxHToI6o5z2zTgctdwA1DTbbefVjP24sLYSj8VmD%2F6inc0j%2B%2BKbvPNl60JtzXE%2B5TqCiEjuAi7NiKFCz1HD58w4e5KE%2FwAMXiaRJjrISfwgHqz8sj4suFestf8Ahi0dlrZFlytKZoJ71ExUO3RdbUQKnKXbH7yz98XDs5TSzJIBVPgEHvz%2B%2BJk%2FAhpeIhLpTp93rWYqM0tLA%2FUSlJ%2B2O6LECOrsikbBn8F65gE%2FnC412hAUPsRdNCTrEzaTGkc0bTs7am%2BhSB%2B4mC7g%2FG5b9u19sRi2lLHuxNn56fsJj4u06PLJb9u19sRtwRlLc6Qvc3%2BIzf7B37BjlSyNI6qvU7WTmhxYd3%2FMMcpWWrKJg006KmhruaaT8of%2Buj66Rel%2FWgbNnRT%2FAJd06fNJ%2B6KCuu9Sdlf27X2xHRV70hUlNjiw6P3TEz3QYexynZyubF57GGKSLixTnPK7aJSPuii7MpSOitj0qBZTR%2BOt4%2F2ikj7MPGVxCHmNG8O0eTlH1S7gexoCcQQkEc5IUM8QqaEROWRPJmGW321fBuJxJBGdKkGtNCCKGKJ2nUNsTYGgUhPc2lP3RbexiZC7P5PKrLq0mo3KPKj7ZjDEwEop8TaOI81CJcCz%2FJ7dmZbQAPAAcKpWj92LKvbNeStNPFRDfLIQ4TkAldUV%2BiSD2QsWpIli88s4kUEy0a9YaW2fspif2uJK7ImQB5obV3OJJ9lYJxUppvikOLaTo1r7XW8qk3GhUuJ57dR6Sc6V6RUdsVfszu4zPrebfU4koSkpwEDUlJrUHoi4dldvCds9srNXWvgnM9SPMV9JND11hfsmwBKW%2B8kABqbYW4gcFBSStPYcR6lCHG4RcLFJqTTYj7T7nt2d5OWy4pLpWFFZBoRhIpQDcT3Q%2B7P21PWey4cS8i2ePMJSDXflSNHbvKK8iZVuQ8Onzkq39nsjf2CzQXIONnMtvqFDwUlKvrxQTWfCVji8k9Cpto9m8haLyAKBWFY%2BkBX21jonZo5ikm1UoFpQ4PpIST7QYp3bzKhM%2By4AAHGAMtKpUr7iItDY7N47PYHxW8HqLUn6jG0f%2BffvYhvWQ%2FQQQRuZhBBBAAQQQQAeExgfnW0UC1hJOgJ%2B6M5ijrzTM3OWgzItPqYDyFvrW35xSCotDUEAIQkAAgc6piJya2HFWXDOWs2ELKVBSglRCRmSQKgUjl7aE8TaDiD%2FAETbLQH6raajrxVh1fuwWypKrxOIINKcoag6KCgHsjEcvZ7JrUXF22ypSjUleAk9ZL1SYzWIr1fZluGmhad0bdkWJKVZVNy4UhltJq6jI4Ri9LWtY5%2FvZOB%2B0pt1JCkqeXhINagGgIO8UENitnspp7qMEHfVuvcXPvjM1s%2BkU5%2B68unrSju%2FO09sKM4LX8EuMqJfYrazDCZovvNNYlN05RSU1FFVIqemJnbDeyWVZjjTEy04t1SEUbcSo4a4lGgOQomnbCuNn8if0zLdzfix8%2B9lIa%2B7Mt6qPFgWVuxK0qF%2FZLMoatBha1JQkYwVKIAFUHedM4va0b4ySGXVialyUtrUAHUEkhJIAANSailOmKtb2cSQGVty3qo8WPlezOQOtsy3qt%2BLDlFSdgm0VfIAqJUTUkknri%2FtlVryrFnNIdmmG1lbqilbiEkVWaZE10pCm3s2kRpbUuOxvxY%2Bjs5kTrbMuexHixUqkJWnYsbXZ5t61FracS6gNtgKQoKBNKmhGWRMXPc235Jqz5NDk1LIUmXaCkqdQCDhFQQTkQYrsbM7PH6Zl%2B5Hix6vZtIEU92pfub8WE0mkh27Fn3VQm31TKVAtidJxA5FGPCTXSmE1rwi%2FwBd6JMZCdlh1vI%2FxRUadmkinMWzLdyPFj6Xs3kVa2xLdyPFiZqMhptCXfuaQ5as04lSVpU5kpJBBFAKgjIiC7ykpm5dSsISHmyScgAFgkk8KQ5e9nIjMWzLDsR4sZPe8k%2F65le5HixbkqJpt2WNeK8UkZWYSmblqlpwAB1BJJScgK11jmaQ0iz1bN5A%2FpiW9VHix6jZrIDS2pYfRR4sTBRitBytiRYUzSZYUSAEvNEk6ABaSSTwjo6ZvRIkKQuclSlVQQXUUIORB52kVT73El%2FXct6qPFj5c2ayJH89S3qt%2BLCmlLiEbXAfPIrv0y9zh1Ka%2FviakLfs5lCWmZmUbbTklKXWwE1NTQV4kntipTszkP64lu5vxYPeykP64l%2FVb8WE4rmyrfITr3TYetObcQoKSp5VFAggjQEEajKH%2FYxbrTC5pt5xDaVpbWkrUEjEkqSqhVTOhT6sajeziQGlsy%2FcjxYyq2dSB%2FTUv3I8WLlKMlRFNOxivta0qqdsyYRNMK5J9SF4XUGiFjUkHIAp1%2BdEpfe3ZNyz5tpE3LKUplYADyCSaVAAxZ5iEQ7M7POfuzLeqjxY8VszkNPdqW9VHixnljprsXmfIh9jd4Ey03gcUEsvjCoqOSVCpbUa5Aapr84Rad9LflQhEyxNSy35VXKJQHkVWkjA8gUNaqQTTpSIRBs1kRpbMt3I8WMatmkkdbYlu5vxYclFu%2FwCbWg9fynsy0GQkuMrSrNTLxCVAjPMK6d4rEhZk%2FZkkyoIclJcKOIpC0g1pTrUaZZRWPvcSWnuvL9zfixgVs4kgf52Yp%2Bq3X%2F5fqjPLDm6%2BRpcmtiL2o3qbn5pJYryLKMCVEUxEmqlU3Dh1Rd2y6Q8lkJdLvMUUFZB3FxRXTsFIqhFwJJBFLZZB10Ru4c%2BNy1rImWmHZpi3HZjkhiKUuEjLOh%2BEI0zpQ6Rpnjoo%2FknJLVs6ESoHSPYUdmlqrmJRDiyKrQheQoASCFAdGJJPbDdG8ZZlZnJU6CCCCKEEEEEAGtaUzybTjnxEKX3An7oo66JBtp9SuciXlUNDsS2Dn2L74t%2B%2Bi6STwrTGA2OtxQbHtVFG3RnikWxMnMELGLPcF0%2BsZRz4%2B38fdm2EvfyQhtvBxbjhHnrUvvNYcrSubKy9A%2FacuhZbDgb5FZNCCQKhVK5UhJstsHCDlUgE7gCcyeyLWvVeRSg8GLSk0tFsoDZbSpyhFCMdK1zNKaZQpt5qIUbTYp3WumqeZdebASGkmgKc1rAxFAz4b%2BkRmujdSXnwgInGm3VlVGVNqKqJzJJBA0FYYJW%2FMvJuS8lLtocYawBcyVGuJeTq00y0Ua9o3RG3ZmpWVticUl5ssIaeLSq0SpSwkhCa6kVUBTWkLXUHFaGKUuRLuqWWp9hxllBW%2B9yagloDQYSarJoo5aYekQvWvIyrb3JsPpmEYQoOhGEEnVNCSQREtsveWzieTPS8qAoJcQ9nyiNa036kZZ13xHXstCXennnJVA5AkUoMIKqDEUppkCa5du%2BK4tE1pZhkbEW9jDTRcLaC4qg81I1P%2BWp3RqhlOoSkjiIa7nXuMi3MAN4y4nE3nSjgyGLeUUNadHTChKlYrioSSVUyGZNTQD6oSb1CtBpsy57Tku0%2B5Nsy%2FLKUhCXEGiiCRTGDlWnDfH1JXIUqdXJOrQypLanSvDjSUAihFCCQanpFDlEnPMSUxZ0i2%2FPMy4ZK1upzW4cRqUhAzrQ%2B0Rkl71yz9ozEwkpbZbs9xhku5cooEKTkTUlVVZcBEXKrXX9F5Y8SDtS6AaclAl5p1qcUlLTyEkCpUE5pOeWKuu4jKNiz7hLfmJ2WacQVydBUoI5UmtAOccGhzNd0bc3bErNLsud5ZLPIPNNuSpOFLeFQWXEfFRkNcqADUER8tXlQ2bbdbeSl111KmFBWasKyQU8RQgxWte%2BYsqF9diAST04rLkXwwpoozxUFamuVK0pTdrE87cApfW2pxCWGmkuuTK0YUJqCoIpiqpXUdDXgDlvheqWm7KASEtzLz7an2xXNQThU5wAICc%2FvidvbeKRn1rs519KG8CHGZlCiUcoE5pcAyIrX6siBBqGWIqs3Rl0yzczNTbUuHklTKC2pRWBmCSCMFctR6QhXY5NQqEgdB3RYdkWqxLyJbnJ%2BUmpYtfBywSS6hRHNSPSRSvpadEVxIKJTzhnTWHrRDSJFVlEMpfLVGlLLaV7ioaj%2FXA8I9s6yuWdbZQlONxQQmulTxPDf2RO2ze9blkokEtpxhQSpdBTk0nEjCNy65E9HTEDYTZLrQ5YMqxCjysggjMKJGmY16YLdWKlwJS8N2GJdaWG5lE1Ml0NKYbaUlSVEE1qo0IrQbvOj7t%2B6rEm2vl52X8pQkHyZCSpVcuaV1ok0NdIYLyXqYZMm446zOzzLwUXGEgUbFQpKlaFRB03EVoIgb02VJO%2BUzrFoNfCBThYdBDuI5lKanOpOWWXTSGnzKcUZ7wXKlJQqQ9aTAdSjGGuRXVVRiSK4iBXjGjadzltSDNoCi2XE4lBKc2q5JxcQTkSNCemsPV5LxcsCWLWkG2iyEltaUKUThIVRWoJ0HCFtq%2BiZaWskJUl9vkXmZtioNUFSaBQ0CqVIr1aEwJtpDcUjXFwk%2BXJkeWTiVLeUBfJ5EfEpj6Na9kR93rpeUy5m3HWZSWrh5R7PErQhKRSueWsN6rwyXu9LPNvtiXEoWiomiU81eBKir0swKa1hWsKYlZyzW7PmJjyVyXdUtpxSSptdSSQqmnnHWm7XMQrda9ApEbL2Uw7OiVRMNlClpQJjAQk1FahNa%2BdzaV13xs2fdFTloLkDhQtsrxLIqAlIxBdKjIgppn6UR9oSrbLpaS%2B2%2FQA8o15uedAa5EQ%2BWrfBj3OcmwU%2B6LrQlFZ86mI1cp0pNa8aDdCbfDiCSFBd2U8lKOpdSpE2%2BphJCDRJC%2BTCtecDruyjLb11paVK0LtBgutqSlTfJLBFSATWpGQOKm%2BkZRababJkEconlZed5QorzgmpVXoGcNV%2Fbd5dM0GrUkeQWg0ZCElZAAqkLpWpUMjXfBbv6lVoK7dxHFT5kQtGTXLB1SCElug52GpI5xw0rEbL3cKmZl1SkoMu6lnAU5rWVYaA1yzINaUoYapW%2BSE2OVhYE822JVBJ55bxAhXYn2p6Y0toN5WZiSlw0UB2ZdD0wlGqVhCUHFwNQKaVCawk5N1%2FA6jRF3puy1JJIXNsrfThJYS0oGhOoWTQ0104xLbPihyWn2KD4RoEZbylSdO6Mt4bRaEgtqam5abeAAli0n4RJ4qUM6deuetYjtlUyROFFCMbKhQCuYKVDLgKGJk28NsuMUppFibBZ8KlEIoKpDia7zhWDTsDgi1xFJbEVqbfmWK81uZWCMt6Snr1bHdF2COnD4%2FP9mWItvl%2Bj2CCCNCAggggAVdo7pTKpoaVdSchU80KdFB1oEUjc1tpdmOsLmmmOWWcRUaqGafQqMVQn2x0VbNmImGi0uoBoQpJoUqBqlQPEEdR0NQYrdexiXUoqVySiTWoS6mv0Uu4R2U7IxxYN9u3zNsOSS%2Bvcrhu6UoE5WmyacUpH1uDKNpu5UoaYrUYOlKJRTPfXlYffeXlfiNd7%2FjQI2Kytc0tH%2Fv%2BNGeWfX%2Bo7h07iSu5Ekk%2FwA7MnqSj6%2BVj1NyZQ0%2FKzFN%2FNRl3uw7nYxKfEa73%2FGjInY1JUzaaPTif8WDJLm%2B3qK49O4km48kP0uznl5iPFjMzcKRIqbWYH0W%2FGhzTsckfkGT9OY8aD3nJH5Br1pjxoag%2BvYluPuxN%2FkPInS12PVb8WMExcyTFKWsyenCjxYdXdjUmdGmk%2FSmD%2F5oxjYtKZ81s8M3sv7XOE4S69hrL07iOm5sqcharFK0OScuzlM%2ByMn8hpIH%2BdmejmoP%2Flyh395iT%2BTa73%2FGjxOxmUrm20e1%2FwAaFkl1%2Fr6lXDp3EoXMk8vyqx6qfEgNypMZ%2B6rHc39XKw6%2B8xKU%2FNtV41f8aPlGxaUGqGj2v%2BLBkl1%2Fr6i8HTuJP8j5KmVqsjrDefZysfYuVIb7Wa9RH3Ow6jYxJ%2FJt97%2Fix9J2MSe9to%2FSf8WDJLr29QuHTuJ4uDJHP3Yl%2B1KPFrHn8hJMaWvLnsR4sOStjUn8k160x40fXvOSXyDPrTHjw8j69vUnTp3EpNypM6Wsx6qPFjw3GlM%2FyvL0%2FVT4sO42OSPyDPrTPjR6djsj8gz68x40Hw5c32C48l3EhVw5I%2FpeX9VHjQJuJJEfzxL%2BqnxYeDsdkP8A%2Bdn15jxo%2BPebkvkWfWmPGh5H17Ba92I67gyQ%2FTEtT9VHiwC4kmAfyvL9WBPiw8nY3I%2FIteu%2F4seDY1I%2FIt%2Bu%2FwCLCyS69guPTuJSbgyZB%2FLEv1YU%2FXyucfabgyX9cS%2FcjxIcF7GJLc02PpP%2BLHydjMn8m13v%2BNBll17eo%2FD07iebhSf9cS%2FYEeLGQ3GlB%2BmGD2N%2BLDb7zUn8kz3zHjwDY1KfJMd8x48GSXXsLTp3E8XGkhra7A6ko8WPhdw5LdbEuejCgf8Alh1GxySp%2BYZ9aY8aPDsakvkmvWf8WFklzfYLj07iSq40kBla7Hqt%2BLHhuLJAZWuzn8xHjQ7jY3J%2FJM98x40fHvMylPzbNeNZjxoMkuvb1K8PTuIqrlyQHOtVmnQEHqy5WN%2B71gyMrMIeFqMrw15pwpxAggivKGmvshvTsbk6fmWT04pjxoPeakvkmvWf8WE8OT0bfb1GpRTtJdxTuS8lNtzfIrxoU42sKSapOJaQcxl%2FSEdhi%2BhCddXZ%2FLySsTYAzxBKQaV3EqUpSlU3CtOiHERvhRa396EYkk6PYIII1Mz%2F2Q%3D%3D&hash=bd0622a7b22e3d2167cb6336793e5ecf)
Different thing. As breastaurants go, Twin Peaks is pretty good though. One of my customers in Denver likes to do happy hour there. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 18, 2020, 12:06:36 PM
I'm a fan of all breastaurants.  Although, my experience at Redneck Heaven in Arlington wasn't good.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 18, 2020, 12:09:03 PM
Going with some homebrew club buddies to play 18 on Saturday. Crappy course, but it's only $28/round on the weekend which ain't bad for SoCal.
So what will the lads be quaffing?Steam Ale's,Kolsch,Pilsner,IPAs,Helles Lager,Natty Lite?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 18, 2020, 12:13:24 PM
Really, the only one of those I ever go to is Hooter's, and it's honestly because I really like their wings.  The view doesn't hurt of course.

But one day a year or two ago, one of my vendors wanted to go to Twin Peaks.  Who am I to say no?

We'd been there a little while and there was this one server who was really, really attractive.  Early 20s like most of them, and she just kept on catching my eye, she looked very familiar.

Finally I realized I knew her from Facebook photos.  Photos posted to Facebook by her MOM, who was a Facebook friend of mine and a girl I dated in college.

Then I just felt really, really creepy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 18, 2020, 12:17:53 PM


This should get interesting.

When food snobs break down the Breastaurant industry. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 18, 2020, 12:22:00 PM
Then I just felt really, really creepy.
as well you should cradle robber
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 18, 2020, 01:06:20 PM
So what will the lads be quaffing?Steam Ale's,Kolsch,Pilsner,IPAs,Helles Lager,Natty Lite?
probably growlers and Crowlers illegally hidden in golf bags
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 18, 2020, 01:07:20 PM
Then I just felt really, really creepy.

in my limited experience........ if I start feeling creepy, it's because I'm guilty ;)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 18, 2020, 01:32:02 PM
Limited experience? - that right there is creepy.....and guilty
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 18, 2020, 02:03:17 PM
Yeah, FF's "limited experience" my arse!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 18, 2020, 02:37:59 PM
as far as youse guys know...............
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 18, 2020, 02:45:30 PM
Particularly when Benzene was used to get the last bit of water out of it.

Stuff went down too easy, then it would suddenly hit you and you were pretty sloppy drunk. Not smart at all.
That's Everclear for me.  Mixes with whatever and you don't even taste it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 18, 2020, 02:50:46 PM

This should get interesting.

When food snobs break down the Breastaurant industry.
I may have shared this at the time, but whatever...
after the 50,000-teacher march (Red for Ed) in downtown Phoenix a couple years back, and after departing ways with my crew, I was alone in downtown Phx where there's some places to eat and an underground garage.  Never been to that area, so I check it out.  There's a Tilted Kilt.  Never been, so I check IT out.  Very nice servers - I prefer t them to the Hooters girl types because it's not just about boobs - they have to be fit to wear their uniform.

Anyway, the point of the story was that the place was packed with woman teachers.  I thought that was funny.  

Some months ago, I was hungry and found myself by a Twin Peaks....never been, so yeah, I check it out.  I honestly just wanted to see what their uniforms were and how they were different.  But just my luck, they were doing some special event and all the servers were in bikinis!  I was honestly bummed out, but I made due.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 18, 2020, 03:00:03 PM
So what will the lads be quaffing?Steam Ale's,Kolsch,Pilsner,IPAs,Helles Lager,Natty Lite?
To be perfectly honest, we've got a number of Mich Ultras in the aluminum bottle in the fridge from when we had my wife's friends over for dinner last month. I might toss a few of those into a small cooler and hide it in the bag. Just to get rid of them. It might be hot out tomorrow, even in Newport Beach, so slamming IPAs might not be a good idea.

I did just get a mixed 24 case from Anchor Brewing at Costco though, and that's got their Steam and their California Lager... But they're glass bottles so I probably wouldn't want them on the course.

And... We're walking the course which makes it harder.

probably growlers and Crowlers illegally hidden in golf bags
I've brought growlers full of homebrew golfing before... But only when we have a golf cart.


This should get interesting.

When food snobs break down the Breastaurant industry.
Can't complain about most of them. It's largely "pub food" menus. The food isn't stellar, but it doesn't suck.

There's also another interesting type of "breastaurant" where it's not all about low-cut tops and showing skin. A chain in Denver called Earl's, and a chain I've been to in Canada called Moxie's, where rather than being blatant about what they're doing it's a bunch of ultra-hot waitresses in tight black dresses. It's how classy dudes be creepy. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 18, 2020, 03:22:57 PM
We don't have any breastaurants around here. But we do have three casinos full of cocktail waitresses. The difference is negligible. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on September 18, 2020, 03:43:22 PM
Really, the only one of those I ever go to is Hooter's, and it's honestly because I really like their wings.  The view doesn't hurt of course.

But one day a year or two ago, one of my vendors wanted to go to Twin Peaks.  Who am I to say no?

We'd been there a little while and there was this one server who was really, really attractive.  Early 20s like most of them, and she just kept on catching my eye, she looked very familiar.

Finally I realized I knew her from Facebook photos.  Photos posted to Facebook by her MOM, who was a Facebook friend of mine and a girl I dated in college.

Then I just felt really, really creepy.


At least since they are serving alcohol, they are of age.

A number of years back, I was officiating a high school football game with some guys I hadn't worked with before. A couple of them who may have been younger than me, though not much younger, started commenting about the sexiness of some of the cheerleaders.  I hadn't to explain to them I had a daughter those cheerleaders' age.  I didn't feel creepy, but I hope I made them feel creepy. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 18, 2020, 03:48:37 PM
At least since they are serving alcohol, they are of age.
I think that depends on the state. I don't believe that all states in the US require servers to be 21 or over to serve alcohol. 

I don't know if it's even required that they be 18 in some states.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 18, 2020, 03:51:54 PM
At least y'all aren't quite as creepy as this guy. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wSRQmLVJnk&ab_channel=Joey%E2%80%99sTCaPChannel
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 18, 2020, 03:55:19 PM
That's Everclear for me.  Mixes with whatever and you don't even taste it.
but, it will cause brain damage
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 18, 2020, 03:56:28 PM
I may have shared this at the time, but whatever...
after the 50,000-teacher march (Red for Ed) in downtown Phoenix a couple years back, and after departing ways with my crew, I was alone in downtown Phx where there's some places to eat and an underground garage.  Never been to that area, so I check it out.  There's a Tilted Kilt.  Never been, so I check IT out.  Very nice servers - I prefer t them to the Hooters girl types because it's not just about boobs - they have to be fit to wear their uniform.

Anyway, the point of the story was that the place was packed with woman teachers.  I thought that was funny. 

Some months ago, I was hungry and found myself by a Twin Peaks....never been, so yeah, I check it out.  I honestly just wanted to see what their uniforms were and how they were different.  But just my luck, they were doing some special event and all the servers were in bikinis!  I was honestly bummed out, but I made due. 
Dude, you need to step away from the internet and get out more
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 18, 2020, 04:00:01 PM
And... We're walking the course which makes it harder.
I've brought growlers full of homebrew golfing before... But only when we have a golf cart.


There's also another interesting type of "breastaurant" where it's not all about low-cut tops and showing skin. A chain in Denver called Earl's, and a chain I've been to in Canada called Moxie's, where rather than being blatant about what they're doing it's a bunch of ultra-hot waitresses in tight black dresses. It's how classy dudes be creepy. 
why I always ride in a golf cart....  I don't mind walking and carrying clubs, but the beer is heavy!

BoneDaddy's used to have better "uniforms".  Hooky was better at describing them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 18, 2020, 04:17:59 PM
I think that depends on the state. I don't believe that all states in the US require servers to be 21 or over to serve alcohol.

I don't know if it's even required that they be 18 in some states.
I think he was talking about 18, not 21.  You know, for legal reasons...

In Texas you can legally serve alcohol at 18, but you obviously can't legally consume it until 21.

Also, in Texas, the legal age of consent is 17.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 18, 2020, 04:28:51 PM
beer cart girls here are required to be 18

they are forbidden to drink shots
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 18, 2020, 05:38:06 PM
I cooked up some fresh corn for lunch.  Underappreciated food item methinks.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on September 18, 2020, 05:45:52 PM
I remember going to Hooters with parents and brothers in mid 90s, N. Virginia.   I remember my parents being appalled to order a pitcher of beer and have it served with bag of ice at the bottom. 

Like we are going to nurse a pitcher of beer for 2 hours was the look on my Mom's face.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 18, 2020, 05:56:58 PM
The only time I dine at a "chain" is when we're on the road and want to eat fast.

I go out of my way to avoid chains.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 18, 2020, 06:03:31 PM



The only time I dine at a "chain" is when we're on the road and want to eat fast.

I go out of my way to avoid chains.




You like those mom and pop breastaurants, eh?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 18, 2020, 06:07:59 PM
The Heart Attack Grill is Vegas is a breastaurant that is not a chain.

I don't think I could possibly consume that much food in one sitting, though.

(https://mymodernmet.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/archive/cHGpFOp879zUwQL6jE6k_1082019965.jpeg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 18, 2020, 06:10:03 PM
Where we dine locally is not what I'd call "mom and pop", though the French place we like is owned by a French couple and their son runs it.

I guess that qualifies.

There are too many good options near us, way too many, to worry about dining at Panera or Chipotle, in my view.  We've been here 2.4 years and have scratched the surface of places we can walk to.  And we have our favorites, which means we don't try a new place if we go back.

We also are trying to support places that don't have deep pockets these days.

The Nook is packed all the time, so we don't go there.  Their food really is fine, but unexceptional.

Bar food really, which is fine as it really is a bar mostly.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 19, 2020, 08:53:03 AM
To be perfectly honest......
My advice to you is stay out of Politics

And... We're walking the course which makes it harder.
I've brought growlers full of homebrew golfing before... But only when we have a golf cart.
Of course who can walk after after pounding those?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 19, 2020, 08:57:02 AM
At least since they are serving alcohol, they are of age.

A number of years back, I was officiating a high school football game with some guys I hadn't worked with before. A couple of them who may have been younger than me, though not much younger, started commenting about the sexiness of some of the cheerleaders.  I hadn't to explain to them I had a daughter those cheerleaders' age.  I didn't feel creepy, but I hope I made them feel creepy.
Not ever a thing to do. Ever. Unless you are in fact the age of said cheerleaders or a year old. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 19, 2020, 08:59:22 AM

This should get interesting.

When food snobs break down the Breastaurant industry.
The food is middling. You'd eat a little better at Top Golf.

The experience, ehh, not for me. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 19, 2020, 09:01:53 AM
Not ever a thing to do. Ever. Unless you are in fact the age of said cheerleaders or a year old.
yup, try not to let them catch you looking and never make any comments
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 19, 2020, 09:01:57 AM
beer cart girls here are required to be 18

they are forbidden to drink shots
Well they're female so it's a proven scientific fact(even the sparring sides in the COVID THREAD can't deny) that the're already handicapped driving.So ya Shots would cause problems - but they'd make you look better
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 19, 2020, 09:03:10 AM
Not ever a thing to do. Ever. Unless you are in fact the age of said cheerleaders or a year old.
I was a big fan of Friday Night Lights tv series

It used to amaze me the girls in that series that were supposed to be high school age

man we didnt have anything even close to Lila Garrity when I was in High School


(https://i.imgur.com/NukUayZ.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 19, 2020, 09:10:07 AM
I'm a fan of all breastaurants.  Although, my experience at Redneck Heaven in Arlington wasn't good.
So what'd ya say?C'mon enquiring minds want to know,we've all have thought the same thing - at least once
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 19, 2020, 09:11:40 AM
Really, the only one of those I ever go to is Hooter's, and it's honestly because.....
You too stay out of politics
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 19, 2020, 09:12:39 AM
it was a Tuesday night or something, maybe the 3rd string?

food wasn't great either

3rd string line cook?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 19, 2020, 09:13:40 AM
Well they're female so it's a proven scientific fact(even the sparring sides in the COVID THREAD can't deny) that the're already handicapped driving.So ya Shots would cause problems - but they'd make you look better
scientifically proven that drunk females like me better than sober females
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 19, 2020, 09:16:26 AM
Not ever a thing to do. Ever. Unless you are in fact the age of said cheerleaders or a year old.
Ya well Donald Trump isn't here,neither is Bill Clinton so you don't need to be reminding us.Take it to the Political Thread
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 19, 2020, 09:19:44 AM
it was a Tuesday night or something, maybe the 3rd string?

food wasn't great either

3rd string line cook?
HA!So they beat you like Aunt Esther on Fred?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 19, 2020, 09:21:51 AM
you could say that
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 19, 2020, 09:23:42 AM
Long long ago I went to Denny's for dinner, for some reason, and we ordered "fried mixed vegetables".  They brought us canned vegall driping in grease.  They did take it back.  These cooks at various places often are very poorly trained, or quickly trained on some menu items.  It was probably a Tuesday and we wanted to eat dinner without any hassle or much expense.

Denny's used to have a Grand Slam Breakfast for $5 or something that I'd get on occasion.  On the whole, it is in the running for worst chain IMHO.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 19, 2020, 09:26:37 AM
I'll agree, haven't been to a Dennys in decades, probably college
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 19, 2020, 09:39:52 AM
What else are the worst chains in your view?

I don't care for KFC or Taco Bell.  We often breakfast at McD's when traveling.  The wife likes it.  We'll get two Subways when traveling at times if there is likely to be a spot in a nice area to dine outside, weather permitting.  We used to go to a Ruby Tuesday's in Ohio because we got to know the folks working there a bit and it was relatively inexpensive.  I still like Bob Evan's pretty well, the wife doesn't.  Cracker Barrel usually is OK.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on September 19, 2020, 09:42:06 AM
I'll agree, haven't been to a Dennys in decades, probably college
Back in the college days after a night of drinking, getting a Chili Size (an open faced hamburger covered in chili and cheese) from Denny's was great, if we weren't near a White Castle
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 19, 2020, 10:00:13 AM
after a night of drinking it was usually whatever was open on the way home

all about convenience, not about quality of selection
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 19, 2020, 10:00:39 AM
FORE!!!

fingers crossed the beer cart is on the course this afternoon!!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 19, 2020, 10:17:58 AM
White Castle is the worst chain that I have had. 

I am open to the idea that Krystal might be even worse than White Castle, since it is a southern White Castle knock off. 

But their movie was pretty funny. 

(https://www.nydailynews.com/resizer/EmUBhLTFwTUVTj--pXRMXfc0QnI=/415x312/top/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/E725AHP3BZAJ3GEISTCD73DS2Q.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 19, 2020, 10:52:33 AM
I'll agree, haven't been to a Dennys in decades
Me neither but when I used to work afternoon or graveyard shift I use to stop there quite a bit.Their SuperBird - a Grilled Turkey Club or Patty Melts were decent with fries on the side with soup/salad.OK fare at good price that was convenient - so a win for me.Use to stop at Bob Evans also for their biscuits and gravy,which were GOOD
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 19, 2020, 11:19:37 AM
Me neither but when I used to work afternoon or graveyard shift I use to stop there quite a bit.Their SuperBird - a Grilled Turkey Club or Patty Melts were decent with fries on the side with soup/salad.OK fare at good price that was convenient - so a win for me.Use to stop at Bob Evans also for their biscuits and gravy,which were GOOD
A Denny's when you're bombed is pretty solid. Otherwise less so.

It used to be good road trip fare, but that stuff has just improved a lot and phones make Denny's less of a thing. Anyone else like Cracker Barrel? The name belies a perfectly solid restaurant. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 19, 2020, 11:31:05 AM
I think Cracker Barrel changed their Sunday fried chicken recipe, and I'm not a fan. I used to go there regularly when I lived in Georgia. We managed to stop on the way back from a wedding on Phoenix last year, and the fried chicken was not what I remember at all. But I'm sure the rest of their menu is fine. But fried chicken and sweet tea on a Sunday was great hangover food...

Applebee's and TGI Fridays can DIAF. 

I actually like Chili's, as far as national chains go. 

And I can get behind the soup/salad/breadsticks combo at Olive Garden. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 19, 2020, 11:32:57 AM
White Castle is the worst chain that I have had.

I am open to the idea that Krystal might be even worse than White Castle, since it is a southern White Castle knock off.

But their movie was pretty funny.

(https://www.nydailynews.com/resizer/EmUBhLTFwTUVTj--pXRMXfc0QnI=/415x312/top/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/E725AHP3BZAJ3GEISTCD73DS2Q.jpg)
Krystal is definitely an inferior southern knockoff of White Castle.

That said, if you went to a White Castle with the mindset that it would be good, you were doing it wrong. It's good, in its own terrible way, and that's what it is and what it should be. 

Haven't seen the movie.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 19, 2020, 11:41:20 AM
Krystal is definitely an inferior southern knockoff of White Castle.

That said, if you went to a White Castle with the mindset that it would be good, you were doing it wrong. It's good, in its own terrible way, and that's what it is and what it should be.

Haven't seen the movie.

I can eat their chicken and their fries. They aren't "good" but they are edible. I have tried to eat their burgers on a few occasions, and never once made it beyond the first bite. Even alcohol has not been able to successfully assist in getting me beyond that one bite threshold.

It's just horrid. steamed meat, with a layer of onion paste twice as thick as the patty, on a soggy bun? Why? 

An entire briefcase full of them? :a102:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 19, 2020, 11:41:49 AM
What else are the worst chains in your view?

I don't care for KFC or Taco Bell.  We often breakfast at McD's when traveling.  The wife likes it.  We'll get two Subways when traveling at times if there is likely to be a spot in a nice area to dine outside, weather permitting.  We used to go to a Ruby Tuesday's in Ohio because we got to know the folks working there a bit and it was relatively inexpensive.  I still like Bob Evan's pretty well, the wife doesn't.  Cracker Barrel usually is OK.
When you get an itch for fried chicken, KFC scratches that itch. I only get the extra crispy though... I'm not a big fan of their normal breading. 

Taco Bell is trash. 

McD's breakfast has become our road trip food. Wife hates McD's in general, but ever since I introduced her to the McGriddles, she'll allow it on the road.

Usually on road trips, especially if it's up I-5 to NorCal or Oregon, we do try to stop at In & Out for lunch or dinner though. You all know my thoughts on In & Out, after I posted my diatribe two years ago (https://www.cfb51.com/big-ten/last-breaths-of-a-dying-season-soc-10618/msg73423/#msg73423).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 19, 2020, 11:44:42 AM
I can eat their chicken and their fries. They aren't "good" but they are edible. I have tried to eat their burgers on a few occasions, and never once made it beyond the first bite. Even alcohol has not been able to successfully assist in getting me beyond that one bite threshold.

It's just horrid. steamed meat, with a layer of onion paste twice as thick as the patty, on a soggy bun? Why?

An entire briefcase full of them? :a102:
Eh. I view it as nostalgic rather than good. I used to enjoy White Castle when I was a young dumb kid. My dad would take me occasionally when we were out somewhere without my mom because she couldn't stand White Castle. 

And you're right. It's terrible in every way. Yet somehow I feel like there's something right in the world the one time per decade I actually eat there. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 19, 2020, 11:49:42 AM


The western burger chains are interesting to try. In N Out and Arctic Circle are the best ones. Carl's Jr is not great, but better than it's Eastern counterpart of Hardee's. Jack in the Box is nothing special; not as bad as McD's or Burger King, but definitely behind Wendy's. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 19, 2020, 11:51:52 AM

The western burger chains are interesting to try. In N Out and Arctic Circle are the best ones. Carl's Jr is not great, but better than it's Eastern counterpart of Hardee's. Jack in the Box is nothing special; not as bad as McD's or Burger King, but definitely behind Wendy's.
Interesting... Never heard of Arctic Circle. Suppose I'll have to give it a shot if I ever find myself in an area where it exists.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 19, 2020, 12:31:09 PM
In n Out is overrated to me. I didn't think it was anything special. Considering the wait time, I'd say I was extremely disappointed. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 19, 2020, 12:35:26 PM
InO is fine, the real problem with it, and why it becomes so controversial, is that its devotees tend to insist that it's something more than what it is. That it's something great, instead of simply a decent fast food burger.

As far as the food itself, I don't like thousand island dressing on a burger so I don't order it with the sauce or animal style or whatever they call it.  So without that sauce, the burger patties are actually a little under-seasoned, even compared to McDonald's.  They do manage to get the cheese melty, but they only offer "sport peppers" which don't work on a burger, for me-- it's jalapenos or green chile all the way.

And then their fries are truly terrible, among the worst of any fast food chain in the country.

But it's certainly decent and edible, for a fast food burger. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 19, 2020, 12:37:25 PM
I've also never heard of it.

I suppose we all had our 3am spots.  Taco Bell was often the only national chain open at that hour, besides the sit-down places like Denny's.  My friends and I would go to Steak n Shake.  Decent burger and they're willing to put chili on anything.
The girls would always want a milkshake (if we had any in tow, lol).


Fast-food chains are interesting.  The conversation has to begin with none of them being "good."  But you could honestly take bits and pieces from each and wind up with a relatively tasty, horrifically unhealthy joint.

I had a friend who would sometimes eat McD's breakfast and BK was dead to her, but I got her to try a croissanwich and she liked it.  As you're all well-aware, as I'm not beholden to "breakfast food" and am leading the resistance against the powerful and sinister egg lobby, I'll focus more on lunch/dinner/supper items here.

First of all, the twin chains - Hardees/Carl's Jr:  I recall Hardees being okay as a kid, but I didn't finish half of the burger the last time I went to a Carl's Jr.  I've always found that to be THE oddest name for a place, too.  Anyway, I don't eat there.  I don't eat a Jack-in-the-Box.  The last chicken sandwich I got there was worse than the cheapest freezer patty you could find and microwave.  They've literally accepted being a rung below McDonalds/BK/et al.  Pathetic.

Checkers/Rallys - double drive thru, identical menus and such.  I don't understand why these twin chains do it, but whatever.  I have very fond memories of checkerburgers from 2-a-day football practices.  They'd buy a couple hundred checkerburgers and toss 'em to us, midday.  I believe they're a little tiny bit saltier, and if I'm not mistaken, have all 3 main condiments on them (rare if true).

I like Taco Bell.  No, it's not legit, not it's not quality, but it is what it is and I enjoy it.  1 packet of the hot sauce on each taco.  Their straws are too narrow.

When I first moved to the west side of Phoenix, I'd frequent my local Denny's.  Same waitress each time.....I've become one of those old fogies.  Anyway, it's in a bad neighborhood, the mirror in the bathroom is permanently missing, but the food has always met my expectations.  That Super Bird or whatever is good, the simple grand slam, the pot roast.  There's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

I think Burger King is a divisive place.  Their fries were rubbish for so long.....meh.  But I've always liked their burgers.  The whopper is a quality burger.  As a kid, I'd always get that long chicken sandwich, which is rubbish.  Their new chicken sandwich is legit.  Chik-fil-A has made everyone else step up to actual breasts on a bun, instead of the oriented-strand plywood chicken from the past (that Jack-in-the-Box still uses).  The rest of the menu involves a lot of bacon, but it's unnecessary. 

I used to poo-poo McDonalds, but now I can tell that they carefully, constantly use their taste-testers and algorithm a burger that is tasty.  Especially without the bottom bun.  No burger that thin is GOOD, but if you remove half the bread and fix that ratio, it works.  Their fries have always been the best.  I appreciate the uniqueness of their tempura-style chicken nuggets. 

Yes, I do eat the chili at Wendy's.  I think Wendy's is a great all-around fast-food chain (remembering that none of them are "good" in a vacuum).

Whataburger somehow has Texas pride attached to it.....all I taste is a lot of mustard.

Chik-fil-A is perfect...good chicken sandwich, which is causing the others to improve, unique and good waffle fries (throw out the ends), and the served sweet tea before anyone else. 

I like Arby's, but the last time I went, it felt like my wallet had been violated. 

Raising Canes - good chicken, I love crinkle-cut fries, and amazing sauce....but I will never understand the long drive-thru lines around Phoenix......even late, even during a pandemic......massive lines and I have no clue as to why.  It's still just fast food, right?

I don't know why Del Taco exists....it's like a generic Taco Bell.  Let that sink in for a minute.

Yes, Krystal is bad.  80% bread, grey meat and all the onions.  Crinkle-cut fries, though.  If 1 Krystal burger is bad, how do 8 of them become a meal?  Nonsensical. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 19, 2020, 12:38:50 PM
We have a Culver's clear out here, which surprised me. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 19, 2020, 12:39:14 PM
Any and every burger joint that friends have talked up has disappointed.  It's a burger chain....it has a ceiling.  
In-and-Out has a good burger, but yes, the fries are a deal-breaker for me.  Utter rubbish.  Could not be worse.  I'd wait in a long-ass line at Cane's before I wait in one for In-n-Out.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 19, 2020, 12:39:43 PM
We have a Culver's clear out here, which surprised me.
Another chain talked up that I don't understand why.  It's fine, it's not great, it's not awful.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 19, 2020, 12:43:15 PM
If you ever think I'm too hard on "the masses," I give to you the Popeye's chicken sandwich fervor.  

"drops mic"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 19, 2020, 12:44:28 PM
I liked Checker burgers, we stopped there occasionally when I was visiting my sister in Florida.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 19, 2020, 12:46:23 PM
Cook Out was a surprisingly good burger chain, in the Carolinas. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 19, 2020, 12:46:49 PM
I wonder how long it will be before a chain develops a fully autonomous operation.  You order via kiosk (already extant in France) and your food is prepared by machine, every time, same after same.

It doesn't seem like much of a stretch to me given current robotic technology.  I suppose the entry cost is the barrier, and perhaps humans won't like it.

Waffle House is an interesting chain.  They once claimed to sell more T-bones than anyone else.  There even is a Waffle House Indicator of disasters.

I can recall driving back here from Ohio on Holidays and WH was the only food place open.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 19, 2020, 12:47:18 PM
Cook Out was a surprisingly good burger chain, in the Carolinas.
We have Cook Outs around here, I've never tried them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 19, 2020, 12:48:39 PM
We spent many a 4am at Waffle House.  As a 19 year old, the adults found in a WH at that hour were......beguiling.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 19, 2020, 12:49:52 PM
http://www.grindhouseburgers.com/ (http://www.grindhouseburgers.com/)

This is a small chain around here but their burgers are probably the best I've ever had out.  The wife loves the place.  They only are doing take out now.

(https://i.imgur.com/L7BvZHC.png)

GRINDHOUSE ,onions grilled, cheese american sauce grindhouse, pickles, lettuce STYLE EURO ,mushrooms sauteed, cheese swiss mayonnaise, mustard, lettuce STYLE HILLBILLY ,jalapenos, cheese pimento onion, chili style texas STYLE GRINGO sauce diablo, jalapenos, avocado, gallo de pico, spread bean black STYLE DIXIE ,tomato green fried, cheese pimento ranch chipotle, slaw cole carolina STYLE APACHE strips tortilla, onions grilled, lettuce, chiles green, jack pepper STYLE YANKEE ,bacon applewood, cheese bleu greens mixed, onions grilled STYLE COWBOY ,bacon applewood, cheese cheddar sauce bbq, ring onion vidalia crispy 24.6 $junior 24.8 $double COMBO KILLER DRINK A AND FRIES ADD 24.6 $junior 24.8 $double 74.6 $junior 74.8 $double 99.6 $junior 99.8 $double 24.7 $junior 24.9 $double 49.7 $junior 49.9 $double 74.7 $junior 74.9 $double 74.7 $junior 74
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 19, 2020, 12:51:10 PM
I would go to WH around 2 AM in college.  A part time GF worked there at nights.  The clientel was interesting at that hour, and varied.

The other local place is the Varsity, another small chain famous locally, and really not that good IMHO.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 19, 2020, 12:56:04 PM
Culver's would be my choice for a fast food burger.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 19, 2020, 01:01:42 PM
Culver's would be my choice for a fast food burger.
We have a local chain here in Austin called P. Terry's.  It's definitely superior to all of the national chains, so when I get a fast food burger (which is rare, maybe once every couple of months), that's where I go.  They serve sort of a thin patty/burger stand style burger, similar to InO but much, much better.  Their fries are also great but you have to eat them fresh, they slide into soggy/greasy territory pretty quickly.


(https://static.spacecrafted.com/b55ed33c13d643ed93f54b2b9e66400f/i/eb40b65dd18d460d970ac4fb9d2342c9/1/4SoifmQp45JMgBnHp7ed2/15_thumbnail.jpg)


(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/TVj819QidHNM_TxbeKtHRcEP9H8=/0x0:1949x2436/1220x813/filters:focal(817x1425:1127x1735):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/63823963/pasted_image_0__1_.0.jpg)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 19, 2020, 01:35:56 PM
There used to be a chain called the Hungry Hobo

I ate there once and all I can say is now I know why the Hobo was hungry
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 19, 2020, 02:59:13 PM
As you know, there aren't many chains in France.  There is one called Buffalo something one see fairly often.  They call McDs "MicDough".  They have a lot of them, they are not very good IMHO.  A local bistro will usually be far far far better.

Seeing KFC and Starbucks in Paris is kind of off putting to me.  I saw a Pizza Hut in Rome.  

The cultural influence of the US on Europe is at times amazing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 19, 2020, 03:13:05 PM
We have Cook Outs around here, I've never tried them.

They have the best non-hand spun milkshakes I've ever tried. 

Their menu is kinda about excess at low prices. Like you can get a quesadilla or basket of small corndogs as a side. I think the food is good fast food, but still best suited for road trips, drunk nights and being in college. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 19, 2020, 03:17:56 PM

Applebee's and TGI Fridays can DIAF.

I actually like Chili's, as far as national chains go.
Never tried Fridays, but Applebee's is overpriced and tastes like freezer burn. I generally agree Chili's is OK, though in the era of fast casual, it's kinda superfluous most of the time. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 19, 2020, 03:51:56 PM
Chilis, Fridays, Applebies, all the same for me.  Olive Garden, the various Italian chains, all the same for me.

I'd rather spend a bit more and eat local.  I didn't have the option when I was younger of course, and we lived in the 'burbs where chains ruled the day.

Living in town is really different.  I hope we can visit Sweden next year.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 19, 2020, 07:03:25 PM
They have the best non-hand spun milkshakes I've ever tried.

Their menu is kinda about excess at low prices. Like you can get a quesadilla or basket of small corndogs as a side. I think the food is good fast food, but still best suited for road trips, drunk nights and being in college.
We’ve had a Cookout for 3-4 years now and I have yet to try it. I’ve heard the milkshakes are great though.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 19, 2020, 07:06:43 PM
We’ve had a Cookout for 3-4 years now and I have yet to try it. I’ve heard the milkshakes are great though.


Too busy scarfing down those Tudor's Biscuits? 



(https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/07/fc/45/f7/tudor-s-biscuit-world.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 19, 2020, 08:33:06 PM
I honestly believe that if you switched all the Applebees, Fridays, and Chilis signs, no one would notice the difference.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 20, 2020, 08:49:24 AM
Is Taco Mac a larger chain?  We had lunch at one, forgettable, except they have a lot of TVs.

https://tacomac.com/locations/ (https://tacomac.com/locations/)

Looks to be almost all ATL based.  Forgettable.  Applebies with more TVs.  Sports bar.

I still have not made it to Crescent Bar that Badge recommended.

I grilled filets last night, they were good.  We had a bottle of Kirkland Stag's Leap Cab which needs a bit more time I think.  I bought a case the other day at Costco.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 20, 2020, 09:11:47 AM
Is Taco Mac a larger chain?  We had lunch at one, forgettable, except they have a lot of TVs.

https://tacomac.com/locations/ (https://tacomac.com/locations/)

Looks to be almost all ATL based.  Forgettable.  Applebies with more TVs.  Sports bar.

I still have not made it to Crescent Bar that Badge recommended.

I grilled filets last night, they were good.  We had a bottle of Kirkland Stag's Leap Cab which needs a bit more time I think.  I bought a case the other day at Costco.


well obviously you feel better
Did you lose a spot in the rotation or sent to a farm team for rehab?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 20, 2020, 09:16:10 AM
Heh, I am feeling pretty good, just some tightness and soreness in the joint.  I'm not supposed to do any curl type lifting.  I should get cleared for everything Oct. 7.  I went jogging once, I clearly lost a lot in two months.  I'm doing a lot of stretching for PT now, twice a week with the therapist.  I think I'll be soft tossing by mid-Oct and we'll see how it feels.  The wife is finally feeling better also, she had the full rotator cuff surgery which is tough.  She's still on the DL.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 20, 2020, 09:18:27 AM
Red Robin is generally very good for fast-casual. One of my buddies oversees operations (exec VP) for 150 stores around the country.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 20, 2020, 09:20:20 AM
Heh, I am feeling pretty good, just some tightness and soreness in the joint.  I'm not supposed to do any curl type lifting.  I should get cleared for everything Oct. 7.  I went jogging once, I clearly lost a lot in two months.  I'm doing a lot of stretching for PT now, twice a week with the therapist.  I think I'll be soft tossing by mid-Oct and we'll see how it feels.  The wife is finally feeling better also, she had the full rotator cuff surgery which is tough.  She's still on the DL.


didnt realize your wife also had surgery 

how romantic
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 20, 2020, 09:23:33 AM
Is Taco Mac a larger chain?  We had lunch at one, forgettable, except they have a lot of TVs.

https://tacomac.com/locations/ (https://tacomac.com/locations/)

Looks to be almost all ATL based.  Forgettable.  Applebies with more TVs.  Sports bar.

I still have not made it to Crescent Bar that Badge recommended.

I grilled filets last night, they were good.  We had a bottle of Kirkland Stag's Leap Cab which needs a bit more time I think.  I bought a case the other day at Costco.


I think I went to a Taco Mac one time to watch WVU play Wisconsin. It was in Douglasville, GA. I remember nothing about the place except when I asked somebody to turn a tv to the WVU game they gave me a weird look.  GT was playing somebody and that game was probably on 75% of the TVs in the place.

I had totally forgotten about that until you posted the name and it triggered that memory.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 20, 2020, 09:29:01 AM
didnt realize your wife also had surgery

how romantic
Her left shoulder, my right.  My kid from Texas came here for a week to help out, which was essential.  She fell a while back on a street and tore here supraspinatus tendon.  My injury is from 1971, a labrum tear called a SLAP.

Yeah, Taco Mac has TVs but mediocre bar food.  

When I was a kid, going to the Varsity was a treat.  They had four rooms each with a TV tuned to a different channel, it was revolutionary at the time.  Chick-Fil-A was a treat.  Just about any food anywhere else was a treat.  My junior year in HS I had lunch every day at McDonald's, same order.  My senior year I switched to Burger King, same order each day.  School food was ... um .... not good.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 20, 2020, 04:22:17 PM
I think I went to a Taco Mac one time to watch WVU play Wisconsin. It was in Douglasville, GA. I remember nothing about the place except when I asked somebody to turn a tv to the WVU game they gave me a weird look.  GT was playing somebody and that game was probably on 75% of the TVs in the place.

I had totally forgotten about that until you posted the name and it triggered that memory.
Not that they gave you an issue about it, but I hate when a single game is on a high % of TVs and they reluctantly turn ONE TV to something else.  It makes me feel like I'm on a hidden camera show.  

The more I have the "you can't be serious" feeling, the more I realize whoever it is, is, in fact, being serious.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 20, 2020, 04:47:14 PM
Taco Mac at the time was one of the few places in the area with a good beer selection. 

Plus I have a trophy naming me "Georgia Premier Homebrewer 2007" from a homebrew contest they held.

Sure, there were only 6 entries, but I won. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 20, 2020, 04:52:34 PM
That's what's usually left at the Belmont - weed out all the pretenders
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 20, 2020, 05:47:00 PM
Taco Mac at the time was one of the few places in the area with a good beer selection.

Plus I have a trophy naming me "Georgia Premier Homebrewer 2007" from a homebrew contest they held.

Sure, there were only 6 entries, but I won.
Congrats.  They did have an enormous "beer" selection on tap.  Some were ciders and whatnot.

The wife counted over 50 TVs that we could see.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 20, 2020, 06:21:11 PM
Taco Mac sounds like a tex-mex casserole dish with taco ingredients and macaroni.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 20, 2020, 06:22:49 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYNoQZ5djUA&ab_channel=stewgriffin
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 20, 2020, 07:55:59 PM
Not that they gave you an issue about it, but I hate when a single game is on a high % of TVs and they reluctantly turn ONE TV to something else.  It makes me feel like I'm on a hidden camera show. 

The more I have the "you can't be serious" feeling, the more I realize whoever it is, is, in fact, being serious.
Yeah, they gave me one small tv perched in a corner, which was fine.  But the look when I asked for the WVU game was along the lines of, “Are you sure?”

My buddy and I had a similar experience at a sports bar outside of Chicago about 20 years ago.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 20, 2020, 08:19:21 PM

My buddy and I had a similar experience at a sports bar outside of Chicago about 20 years ago.
I had it happen at a bar in Southie Boston. It was a Thursday night and the Red Sox were on. But of course Thursday nights were also the start of college football for the weekend and I think IIRC a big Big East matchup was on.

They had TV's every three feet apart above the bar, all showing the Sox game. I asked the bartender to change one to CFB and he obliged. Every other TV was still showing the Sox. 

Quite literally about 20 minutes later I hear a guy walk up to the bartender and ask "What the f*** is this? The Sox are playing!"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on September 20, 2020, 08:31:53 PM
White Castle is the worst chain that I have had.

I am open to the idea that Krystal might be even worse than White Castle, since it is a southern White Castle knock off.

But their movie was pretty funny.

(https://www.nydailynews.com/resizer/EmUBhLTFwTUVTj--pXRMXfc0QnI=/415x312/top/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/E725AHP3BZAJ3GEISTCD73DS2Q.jpg)
I love white castle.  So glad the opened a place in the Phoenix area
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 20, 2020, 09:40:13 PM
Taco Mac sounds like a tex-mex casserole dish with taco ingredients and macaroni. 
Actually it sounds like a South Dakota casserole dish that is supposed to be based on Tex-Mex and macaroni.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 20, 2020, 09:46:55 PM
Actually it sounds like a South Dakota casserole dish that is supposed to be based on Tex-Mex and macaroni.
My wife idolizes Ina Garten. But we both rolled our eyes HARD when we saw her tex mex episode. It was like she'd never heard of tex mex until recently. I guess it's not big in the Hamptons... 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 20, 2020, 09:57:29 PM
My wife idolizes Ina Garten. But we both rolled our eyes HARD when we saw her tex mex episode. It was like she'd never heard of tex mex until recently. I guess it's not big in the Hamptons...
Ha!  I'd assume not.

I haven't seen the episode, but in general I really like her stuff.  It seems like she probably does best when she stays in her lane with the northeastern clam-bake and chowder type stuff, but I'd probably at least give a look at what she does with other regions.  Her taste is usually on point even if her methods might not be. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 21, 2020, 04:15:24 AM
I love white castle.  So glad the opened a place in the Phoenix area
I haven't gone to it.  
A - it's out of the way
B - when a fast-food place has more than 2 cars in the drive-thru line, count me out


When it opened, it was a whole big thing.  They ran out of food.  
And I'm supposed to respect the masses.  Waiting in line for probably 45 minutes for sliders you could make better at home.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 21, 2020, 07:20:14 AM
One thing I enjoy seeing is something done well, and if you watch the drive through at a Chick-Fil-A, you see it done well, somehow, dual lines, and moving the cars through quickly.  They get packed around here for lunch in the drive through, the lines are often 6-7 cars long and two deep.  They are a money making machine.

The wife likes CFA and I'm OK with it.  We have one in walking distance that has a small park outside.  Might try it today for lunch.

Weather here supposed to be perfect.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 21, 2020, 09:11:00 AM
Mmmm, short ribs...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 21, 2020, 09:25:16 AM
Mmmm, short ribs...
Home made?  One of my favs...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 21, 2020, 09:26:30 AM
I got the bill for my surgery (I imagine anaesthesia will be separate).

The top line is $35,806.  The "adjusted" prices is $5,714.  My cost is $0.

I don't like this "system", aside from not paying for anything (which is nice, but the system is very obscure).

They also included a bunch of verbiage about how I can pay over time or get other support etc.  $0.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 21, 2020, 09:44:47 AM
I got the bill for my surgery (I imagine anaesthesia will be separate).

The top line is $35,806.  The "adjusted" prices is $5,714.  My cost is $0.

I don't like this "system", aside from not paying for anything (which is nice, but the system is very obscure).

They also included a bunch of verbiage about how I can pay over time or get other support etc.  $0.


got to watch anesthesia cause sometimes they slip in a doctor who is out of network and the Ins Co wont cover it fully

this seems unfair to me 

who thinks ahead of time to make sure the anesthetist is in network
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 21, 2020, 09:53:08 AM
I got the bill for my surgery (I imagine anaesthesia will be separate).

The top line is $35,806.  The "adjusted" prices is $5,714.  My cost is $0.

I don't like this "system", aside from not paying for anything (which is nice, but the system is very obscure).

They also included a bunch of verbiage about how I can pay over time or get other support etc.  $0.



Anesthesia? I'm surprised. You seem like the kinda fella that would want to be alert, so that you can watch what they are doing, and how they are doing it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on September 21, 2020, 09:56:56 AM
I heckle my wife about this.   It is exceptionally rare for a patient to request or know who the anesthesiologist is going to be leading up to the date of surgery. 

Its quite strange to me given the critical role in the case.   She will usually get a request from a former patient or maybe a nurse or surgeon she works with.   I never considered the out of network possibility for the anes.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 21, 2020, 10:02:45 AM
Anesthesia? I'm surprised. You seem like the kinda fella that would want to be alert, so that you can watch what they are doing, and how they are doing it.
Not me, not me at all.

I did ask what he was using, "Propofol" he said.  I was out before they gave me the nerve block fortunately.  The had a small ultrasound gizmo I guess to find my nerve ganglia.  I was looking at it and asked if it was an ultrasound and that's the last think I remember.  I have had general twice in my life now.  It's pretty neat, it seems you pass out and  then wake up very quickly.  I had a sore throat from the intubation of course.

If you ever watch this surgery on YouTube, you'll see it's pretty aggressive.  They use this rotary cutter to remove damages tendon pieces, of which there was a lot.

The way the treat a labrum tear now is to detach the bicep and reattach it to bone (humerous).  Ha ha.  Then you don't aggravate the labrum all the time.  It's called a SLAP tear.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 21, 2020, 10:10:29 AM
I heckle my wife about this.  It is exceptionally rare for a patient to request or know who the anesthesiologist is going to be leading up to the date of surgery.

Its quite strange to me given the critical role in the case.  She will usually get a request from a former patient or maybe a nurse or surgeon she works with.  I never considered the out of network possibility for the anes. 
It just needs to happen one time to you and cost you several hundred dollars to become aware of this

you pick an in network hospital and doctor but you just assume all the other doctors associated with your case will be in network

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 21, 2020, 10:14:01 AM
Yeah, I interact with the medical business rarely.  It's not transparent at all.  I checked and my insurance site said X was in network, and then after the bill came they claimed they were not.  It was an office visit so it wasn't a big deal.  This used to happen to me all the time when I had kids.

It was a few dollars for me, but annoying.  

Imagine buying a car with this kind of "system".
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 21, 2020, 10:23:35 AM
Not me, not me at all.

I did ask what he was using, "Propofol" he said.  I was out before they gave me the nerve block fortunately.  The had a small ultrasound gizmo I guess to find my nerve ganglia.  I was looking at it and asked if it was an ultrasound and that's the last think I remember.  I have had general twice in my life now.  It's pretty neat, it seems you pass out and  then wake up very quickly.  I had a sore throat from the intubation of course.

If you ever watch this surgery on YouTube, you'll see it's pretty aggressive.  They use this rotary cutter to remove damages tendon pieces, of which there was a lot.

The way the treat a labrum tear now is to detach the bicep and reattach it to bone (humerous).  Ha ha.  Then you don't aggravate the labrum all the time.  It's called a SLAP tear.


sounds like what I might require
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 21, 2020, 10:43:35 AM
I had pain throwing of course, and reaching for high objects.  My range of motion was down versus my left shoulder.  The doc showed me how my strength was down.

He said it was a classic labrum tear (SLAP), common for pitchers and volleyball players.  

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/slap-tear-prevention-tips-for-baseball-and-softball-players (https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/slap-tear-prevention-tips-for-baseball-and-softball-players)

I was a junior in HS and pitched the first game of the year for us.  I recall it was cold.  I tried to over throw as I was expected to be the ace etc.  The next day I couldn't lift my arm above shoulder height.  Stupid kid.

The coach put me in left field even though I could barely throw the ball back into the infield.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 21, 2020, 11:11:48 AM
I don't throw much with my left arm, but I have good range of motion reaching above my head

my strength is way down and my bicep has dropped to above the elbow in a small ball
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 21, 2020, 11:12:14 AM
Home made?  One of my favs...
Yep. Simple. 

For my son's birthday, we had coca-cola braised short ribs. I had my butcher cut up a full 3-bone slab into the portions needed for that, and the leftover was two ribs about 5-6" long that I was saving for some night it would just be the wife and I. 

Tossed a little mesquite rub on them, put them on the Traeger at 225 for just under 6 hours, and set and forget they're done. 

Had a nice little bark but underneath was tender and juicy. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 21, 2020, 11:18:20 AM
Yeah, I interact with the medical business rarely.  It's not transparent at all.  I checked and my insurance site said X was in network, and then after the bill came they claimed they were not.  It was an office visit so it wasn't a big deal.  This used to happen to me all the time when I had kids.

It was a few dollars for me, but annoying. 

Imagine buying a car with this kind of "system".
Yep. Every healthcare system has its warts, but it's a little bit screwy when the "price" is ~$36K, the hospital/doctors will be paid ~$6K, and the cost to you is zero. (That last part is nice as a patient of course, especially for an elective surgery that only makes it easier for an old man to throw a ball lol.) 

It's like it's trying to be deliberately obfuscating... Which, of course, it is. That's the only way they can get away with charging everyone a different price depending on who they are and what level of insurance coverage they have.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 21, 2020, 11:36:41 AM
Yep. Every healthcare system has its warts, but it's a little bit screwy when the "price" is ~$36K, the hospital/doctors will be paid ~$6K, and the cost to you is zero. (That last part is nice as a patient of course, especially for an elective surgery that only makes it easier for an old man to throw a ball lol.)

It's like it's trying to be deliberately obfuscating... Which, of course, it is. That's the only way they can get away with charging everyone a different price depending on who they are and what level of insurance coverage they have.
This si why I never pay the hospital up front or upon checkout

The hospitals original charge is going to always be reduced by the insurance company to the network agreed rates so its better to wait till the Ins co tells you what the real bill is
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 21, 2020, 11:57:29 AM
Hey @FearlessF (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=10) -- I got the sense a few weeks ago that you're not exactly a Bryson Dechambeau fan... What did you think of his performance at the US Open? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on September 21, 2020, 12:48:43 PM
That was a helluva performance.   I enjoyed it.

Wish Wolff could've hung around.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 21, 2020, 01:39:35 PM
Watched the Netflix Challenger documentary last night. Holy wow. If the engineers tell you we have this persistent problem the end result of which is catastrophic failure, and it's particularly bad during cold weather, and we strongly recommend you don't launch, then you don't bully the engineers into changing their minds.

It's not hard to see how group think got the better of them, but how many freaking times do people have to relearn this lesson!?!

And to think those astronauts and the teacher more than likely were conscious for the nearly three minute drop from 65K feet. Impossible to imagine, except to know that was a really, really long descent. That part's not in the documentary, but the evidence points to it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 21, 2020, 01:42:26 PM
Watched the Netflix Challenger documentary last night. Holy wow. If the engineers tell you we have this persistent problem the end result of which is catastrophic failure, and it's particularly bad during cold weather, and we strongly recommend you don't launch, then you don't bully the engineers into changing their minds.

It's not hard to see how group think got the better of them, but how many freaking times do people have to relearn this lesson!?!

And to think those astronauts and the teacher more than likely were conscious for the nearly three minute drop from 65K feet. Impossible to imagine, except to know that was a really, really long descent. That part's not in the documentary, but the evidence points to it.
Yes.  That was a string of bad decisions and those poor folks died a terrible death.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 21, 2020, 01:53:26 PM
It's not hard to see how group think got the better of them, but how many freaking times do people have to relearn this lesson!?!
That's humanity. We have difficulty learning from our predecessors bad decisions, so we have to make our own. Then our successors do the same. 

Isn't the quote something like "Those who get an F in history class are doomed to repeat it?"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 21, 2020, 01:57:15 PM
Hey @FearlessF (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=10) -- I got the sense a few weeks ago that you're not exactly a Bryson Dechambeau fan... What did you think of his performance at the US Open?
I wasn't rooting for DeChamblow, but that was a helluva 4 rounds of golf, especially on Sunday.  Gotta give the man my respect.
I consider the US Open the toughest major on the mental aspect.  Course was tough as nailas and Bryson held it together and played well.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 21, 2020, 02:29:03 PM
Isn't the quote something like "Those who get an F in history class are doomed to repeat it?"
Those who make A's in history have learned that nobody else learned anything from history.

I've been involved in "Group Think" a lot at work.  When I was younger and less experienced, there was pressure to "go along and get along".  It wasn't stated as such, but it was clear that a contrary opinion was not the path to career success.

There is a pretty neat story which I hope is true about a lady at the FDA who would not approve use of a morning sickness treatment called thalidomide.


Thalidomide was first marketed in 1957 in West Germany (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Germany), where it was available over the counter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over_the_counter).[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide#cite_note-OUP2003-5)[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide#cite_note-Mill1991-6) When first released, thalidomide was promoted for anxiety (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anxiety)trouble sleeping (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insomnia), "tension", and morning sickness (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_sickness).[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide#cite_note-Mill1991-6)[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide#cite_note-Lou2004-7) While initially deemed to be safe in pregnancy, concerns regarding birth defects were noted in 1961 and the medication was removed from the market in Europe that year.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide#cite_note-Mill1991-6)[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide#cite_note-OUP2003-5) The total number of people affected by use during pregnancy is estimated at 10,000, of which about 40% died around the time of birth.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide#cite_note-Mill1991-6)[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide#cite_note-AHFS2019-3) Those who survived had limb, eye, urinary tract, and heart problems.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide#cite_note-OUP2003-5) Its initial entry into the US market was prevented by Frances Kelsey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Kelsey) at the FDA.[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide#cite_note-Lou2004-7) The birth defects of thalidomide led to the development of greater drug regulation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_regulation) and monitoring in many countries.[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide#cite_note-Lou2004-7)[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide#cite_note-OUP2003-5)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 21, 2020, 06:04:25 PM
Just used this image in an email to a customer...

(https://i.imgur.com/JZAdTjw.png)

I hope he finds it as funny as I do lol...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 22, 2020, 07:45:31 AM
I turned the heat on this morning downstairs.  First time.

I wore a light jacket yesterday, first time.

I like Fall, but it was always that harbinger of winter, which I did not like, at all.  I'm happy now that winter is relatively mild, I can go outside most days and be comfortable.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 22, 2020, 02:01:03 PM
The weather has been what I consider perfect the last few days. Cool mornings which give way to highs of about 65 or 66 in the afternoons. Beautiful and sunny without a cloud in the sky.

I usually get my exercise at the gym but the last couple of days I’ve taken long hikes on trails because it is just too nice not to be outside.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 22, 2020, 04:57:14 PM
Yeah, same here.  We had PT this morning and I came home ate lunch and took a nap.  Had planned to go run.  Oops.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 22, 2020, 10:57:45 PM
82 degrees, sunny and very light breeze on the golf course today

low humidity

nearly perfect
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 22, 2020, 11:05:49 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/FzZ5g1y.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/wZV7UFk.png)


They say every beer 
you drink shortens your
Life by 2 minutes

I've done the math
Seems I died in 1537
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 23, 2020, 12:28:19 AM
82 degrees, sunny and very light breeze on the golf course today

low humidity

nearly perfect
the weather here in Houston is great if you like walking through a car wash

no wind just rain
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 23, 2020, 10:59:07 AM
Different thing. As breastaurants go, Twin Peaks is pretty good though. One of my customers in Denver likes to do happy hour there.
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/120030772_10159365150877366_1261303250458313984_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=FvGR66DeBe8AX9ulSf5&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=373c7c40393331da743745325cc8fe94&oe=5F8F1DD4)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 23, 2020, 11:12:51 AM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/120030772_10159365150877366_1261303250458313984_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=FvGR66DeBe8AX9ulSf5&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=373c7c40393331da743745325cc8fe94&oe=5F8F1DD4)


(https://www.clipartmax.com/png/small/182-1827365_nfl-referee-psd-ref-throwing-flag-meme.png)

Illegal coverage. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 23, 2020, 12:02:49 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/120030772_10159365150877366_1261303250458313984_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=FvGR66DeBe8AX9ulSf5&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=373c7c40393331da743745325cc8fe94&oe=5F8F1DD4)
That looks delicious. And the food looks good too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 23, 2020, 12:04:26 PM
I thought AfroMan would like it

ribs for breakfast instead of Eggs
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 23, 2020, 01:20:52 PM
I thought AfroMan would like it

ribs for breakfast instead of Eggs
That's one big plus about living way out west.  Bars/restaurants open up for east coast early games, so you're eating whatever food you want at 9am, instead of what the egg lobby dictates your options.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 23, 2020, 01:38:30 PM
you where lucky to get the heck out of Florida

only egg McMuffins until 10:30am
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on September 23, 2020, 01:52:56 PM
If eating ribs for breakfast is wrong, I don't want to be right.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 23, 2020, 02:04:26 PM
that's ok, cause you're wrong!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 23, 2020, 06:41:04 PM
that's ok, cause you're wrong!
what are you the food nazi
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 23, 2020, 06:58:04 PM
If eating ribs for breakfast is wrong, I don't want to be right.
As long as you don't eat eggs.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 23, 2020, 07:24:37 PM
As long as you don't eat eggs.
BBQ rib and egg breakfast tacos are delicious.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 23, 2020, 09:57:01 PM
Anyone ever had an Ostrich egg? 

(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/f3071f_f11dd856f45440fbb8a48f888dfeaed2~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_480,h_320,al_c,lg_1,q_85/f3071f_f11dd856f45440fbb8a48f888dfeaed2~mv2.webp)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 23, 2020, 11:51:18 PM
Anyone ever had an Ostrich egg?

(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/f3071f_f11dd856f45440fbb8a48f888dfeaed2~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_480,h_320,al_c,lg_1,q_85/f3071f_f11dd856f45440fbb8a48f888dfeaed2~mv2.webp)
No. The egg lobby won't let me because one ostrich egg reduces chicken egg sales by two dozen. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 24, 2020, 09:31:01 AM
The wife likes me to fix on occasion fried eggs over English muffins (which I don't recall seeing in England).  She usually prefers her "juice", made with her juicer.

Either is OK with me.  I might make grits this morning.  She needs a lot more sleep than I do.

I think I will make grits and fried eggs.  I saw a commercial on TV that made me want eggs.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 24, 2020, 09:39:47 AM
I was hungry the other night and we really didn’t have much of anything. I fried a couple of eggs we get from a guy who raises chickens.  Then I fried a piece of bologna and melted a slice of American on top of it. I put all of that between two pieces of toast with some mayo.

It’s not something a cardiologist would recommend but man it was good.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 24, 2020, 10:01:26 AM
what are you the food nazi
don't try to tell me Texans don't eat BBQ for breakfast
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 24, 2020, 10:02:13 AM
I get the majority of my eggs from a friend that has laying hens

it's his hobby, he seems to enjoy it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 24, 2020, 10:05:41 AM
The house next door to our friend in Boston had hens in a cage.  It was a residential area, I thought it interesting they could do that (Newton, MA).

When I stayed at my grandparents as a kid, I'd go out in the morning to get eggs to be cooked.  I didn't think they tasted any different from grocery store eggs.

The wife likes fish eggs a lot.  They are really expensive.  That is something I don't get really.  Escargot, fine with me, but caviar?  Meh.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 24, 2020, 10:08:25 AM
I don't taste much difference in eggs

funny, but they don't taste like chicken to me
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 24, 2020, 10:35:52 AM
you where lucky to get the heck out of Florida

only egg McMuffins until 10:30am
Exactly.....it's madness!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 24, 2020, 10:36:27 AM
As long as you don't eat eggs.
It's not about avoiding eggs.  It's about eating eggs any time of day.  It's about eating any type of food any time of day.


Look, steak is so good, it made the leap onto the breakfast menu and the egg lobby rolled with the punches and said, fine - but make it "steak 'n eggs!"

Their reach is long and distinguished....
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 24, 2020, 10:57:34 AM
don't try to tell me Texans don't eat BBQ for breakfast

Who would ever say such a thing???  Brisket and fried egg breakfast sandwich:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwO4XlBCYAA1b4g?format=jpg&name=small)

Chopped beef and cheddar kolache:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B5EkmmMCAAAiHdH?format=jpg&name=small)

Breakfast taco with bacon, brisket, two fried eggs, hash browns, and refried beans:

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/V4FS1wMr_ZWwv6i4Uljcw0L-zoY=/0x0:6818x4550/2570x1446/filters:focal(2864x1730:3954x2820):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/64047632/Photo_Aug_11__6_38_08_PM.0.0.0.0.jpg)



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 24, 2020, 11:14:59 AM
No. The egg lobby won't let me because one ostrich egg reduces chicken egg sales by two dozen.


A quail egg, perhaps? 


(https://www.craftycookingmama.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/040.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 24, 2020, 11:28:35 AM
We took my daughter to Fox Bros. for lunch.  It was late, 2 PM, and we had to wait for a table a few minutes.  (They have their tables spread out, and it was raining so outside was closed.)

Had a brisket sandwich and Brunswick stew.  I was not one for brisket in the past, really, I think it can be poorly done and dried out.  No so here.

Their Brunswick stew is not my favorite.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 24, 2020, 11:37:39 AM
the stew probably full of brisket - a couple days old
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 24, 2020, 11:45:07 AM
I'm really starting to hate utee 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 24, 2020, 11:57:07 AM
It's hot here in Florida.

I had a Rueben for breakfast. It was good.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 24, 2020, 11:59:47 AM
I did fix grits and fried eggs for me and the wife.  She said it would be fine every so often.

I didn't have any brisket to go with it.

It's drizzling now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 24, 2020, 12:02:23 PM
Pretty cool here in Texico.  Predicted high of 82 for this afternoon, that's almost winter weather.  Overnight lows down into the low 60s... where's my parka???

 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 24, 2020, 12:03:09 PM
Grits are a peculiar provision. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 24, 2020, 12:03:40 PM
I had scrambled eggs and whole wheat toast for breakfast.  A tiny bite of bacon that I managed to wrestle off the kids' plate.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 24, 2020, 12:04:26 PM
Grits, like many items of Southern cooking, is/are a preservation technique.

Properly prepared and doctored up, they taste a lot like butter, salt, and pepper.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 24, 2020, 12:07:51 PM
Polenta and grits are the same thing. Elitist food snobs just don't like to acknowledge that anything from the South could be good.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 24, 2020, 12:19:34 PM
Polenta and grits are the same thing. Elitist food snobs just don't like to acknowledge that anything from the South could be good.


Not really, but similar. Also...

An order of grits is $0.99.

An order of polenta is $7.99.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 24, 2020, 12:21:37 PM

Sounds too much like placenta. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 24, 2020, 12:27:03 PM
Not really, but similar. Also...

An order of grits is $0.99.

An order of polenta is $7.99.
Not similar, same.  Like I said, elitist food snobs...:)

Still, if snobs are willing to pay $7.99 for 50 cents worth of corn meal, then I can't fault the restaurants for charging that much.  A fool and his money are soon parted and all.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 24, 2020, 12:38:00 PM
https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-grits-and-polenta/#:~:text=Polenta%20is%20a%20traditional%20Italian%20dish%20made%20with,than%20polenta%2C%20which%20has%20a%20somewhat%20coarse%20texture. (https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-grits-and-polenta/#:~:text=Polenta is a traditional Italian dish made with,than polenta%2C which has a somewhat coarse texture.)

Similar, but different.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 24, 2020, 12:44:11 PM
Hominy grits are a type of grits made from hominy – corn that has been treated with an alkali in a process called nixtamalization with the pericarp removed. Grits are often served with other flavorings as a breakfast dish. Grits can be either savory or sweet, with savory seasonings being more common.


This is what grits are, made from HOMINY, which is made from corn by soaking in lye water.

You can buy hominy in a can, it's not particularly tasty

(https://i.imgur.com/fDkgP82.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 24, 2020, 12:46:40 PM
https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-grits-and-polenta/#:~:text=Polenta%20is%20a%20traditional%20Italian%20dish%20made%20with,than%20polenta%2C%20which%20has%20a%20somewhat%20coarse%20texture. (https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-grits-and-polenta/#:~:text=Polenta is a traditional Italian dish made with,than polenta%2C which has a somewhat coarse texture.)

Similar, but different.

Didn't read that and don't need to.  The main difference cited-- usually-- is the type of corn.  Except there are Italian versions of white polenta, and there are American versions of yellow grits.

So then people talk about how fine the grind is.  Except there are coarse versions of American grits, and fine versions of Italian polenta.

Ultimately, the only difference is the name, and how much a food snob is willing to pay for it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 24, 2020, 12:47:00 PM
We are venturing out in October, a short three night vacation up into the mountains.  I have a cousin who recently moved to NC in the mountains and we'll visit her and her husband who I knew in High School way back in the day.  He was on crutches the same time I was after I turned my ankle, so we saw each other in the halls for a while.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 24, 2020, 12:48:45 PM
Hominy grits are a type of grits made from hominy – corn that has been treated with an alkali in a process called nixtamalization with the pericarp removed. Grits are often served with other flavorings as a breakfast dish. Grits can be either savory or sweet, with savory seasonings being more common.


This is what grits are, made from HOMINY, which is made from corn by soaking in lye water.

You can buy hominy in a can, it's not particularly tasty

[img width=315.98 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/fDkgP82.png[/img][/size][/color]

Not all grits are hominy grits, hence the quailifier "hominy" in front of the word "grits.:  And some polenta is made from white corn, although I've never heard of hominy polenta.  No real need to make something called hominy polenta though, since hominy grits already exist, and hominy polenta would just be the exact same thing. :)



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 24, 2020, 12:52:25 PM
I've actually never seen grits not called hominy grits.  I could have overlooked it.

https://www.southernliving.com/grains/grits/types-of-grits-old-fashioned-yellow-corn-quick-cooking (https://www.southernliving.com/grains/grits/types-of-grits-old-fashioned-yellow-corn-quick-cooking)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 24, 2020, 12:58:04 PM
better to eat your corn fresh on the cob

doctored up with butter, salt, and pepper
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 24, 2020, 01:00:14 PM
I've actually never seen grits not called hominy grits.  I could have overlooked it.

https://www.southernliving.com/grains/grits/types-of-grits-old-fashioned-yellow-corn-quick-cooking (https://www.southernliving.com/grains/grits/types-of-grits-old-fashioned-yellow-corn-quick-cooking)
Guess you're not looking? All kinds of grits, both yellow and white, can be made without the hominy process.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 24, 2020, 01:01:17 PM
better to eat your corn fresh on the cob

doctored up with butter, salt, and pepper
My kids with braces both miss corn on the cob.  Occasionally they'll do it anyway, but they pay the price with the lengthy toothbrushing and waterpicking that follows.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 24, 2020, 01:02:57 PM
braces suck

still a bad memory for me
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 24, 2020, 01:06:37 PM
Guess you're not looking? All kinds of grits, both yellow and white, can be made without the hominy process.

Yeah, I see that now on line, I just never noticed in stores.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 24, 2020, 01:35:30 PM
I really enjoyed the Shrimp and Grits at this place in South Carolina

https://sunrise-bistro.com/menu (https://sunrise-bistro.com/menu)

But, the the Fried Chicken & Waffles were much better
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 24, 2020, 01:40:42 PM
It all sounds good to me!

Shrimp and grits have become a really common thing in recent years, at restaurants I've been to all over the country.  The very first time I ever had it was at Emeril's NOLA restaurant in the French Quarter, maybe 15-20 years ago.  It was tasty and I've usually ordered it on most of my return visits.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 24, 2020, 01:59:41 PM
1974, AD Bob Devaney was the guest alongside Keith Jackson on the season debut of ABC Sports college football telecast. A different commentator was added each week, in the short lived experiment that also introduced their first sideline reporters.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s640x640/120141284_2965223493579877_7069277195550986815_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=jxRONjrLnFgAX_U0URE&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=7&oh=1fb4a6dc30942f88129c7bc966acd8a6&oe=5F920B0A)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 24, 2020, 04:57:59 PM
FORE!!!

last night of men's golf league
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 24, 2020, 05:43:29 PM
Try to keep it outta the sand and water, Fearless.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 24, 2020, 07:34:08 PM
https://www.facebook.com/itisasouthernthing/videos/661672984464550 (https://www.facebook.com/itisasouthernthing/videos/661672984464550)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 24, 2020, 08:40:42 PM
I couldn't finish the shrimp n grits at Lolo's Chicken & Waffles......soooooo much food.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 24, 2020, 09:41:29 PM
Never took to grits. Fortunately the South is rich in carb-heavy or deeply unhealthy breakfast stuffs. 

So I make do. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 24, 2020, 10:20:38 PM
To be fair, yankees have their share of rich, carb-heavy breakfast foods as well.

(and I ain't knockin' it)

(https://amazingribs.com/files/styles/content_body_600px/public/articles/hero/beef-and-bison-recipes/corned-beef-hash2.jpg?itok=vnI7V-oK)

(https://edibleottawa.ediblecommunities.com/sites/default/files/styles/recipe_banner/public/images/recipe/offal%203.jpg?itok=ECwGB2rc)

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/62582797/BagelMapAbsoluteBagels1.0.0.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 24, 2020, 10:32:22 PM
Shoot, I miss the option of good bagels. 

Apparently my town had a good place for those, but the owner aged out. Maybe it’s a sign of maturity, but I used to get sad when a place I liked closed for that reason, but now I’m kinda made happy by it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 25, 2020, 08:17:29 AM
I'm still angry any time a place I like closes.
Screw that guy for getting to retire happily, I still want my bagels/enchiladas/BBQ or whatever. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 25, 2020, 08:23:19 AM
Bagels are a funny thing.  I've been told by my New Yorker friends there are no good bagels in Austin.  Indeed, they insist there are no good bagels outside of New York.  And then, amongst themselves, they'll further disagree that lower Manhattan is the only good place for bagels, while others argue that midtown is the place to go, and still others say that new place in Brooklyn has them all beat and it's the only one worth trying.

When I visited a friend in NY a few years back, a local NYer that I'd met in grad school, he took me to a place in midtown that he loved and said was the greatest.  I tried the bagels.  I liked the bagels.

I couldn't honestly tell any difference between them, and the ones I can get at bakeries here in Austin.  I mean, there's a definite difference compared to storebought packaged bagels, don't get me wrong.  Fresh-baked are way way better.  But there are a few different Jewish deli/bakery places here in Austin, and I've had bagels there, and they tasted the same as the ones in NYC.

So, well, there you have it.  Anyway, I do like bagels.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 25, 2020, 08:41:52 AM
That is akin to my claiming you can't find good grits or fried chicken in NYC, or the wife claiming French cuisine here is not really French.

Meh, doesn't bother me (not much does).  If folks have regional pride in a simple thing, great.  I couldn't find any good BBQ in Austin.  Of course I was only there a week and just missed the good places obviously, but I might conclude they don't have good BBQ in Austin period.

Everyone likes to be snooty.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 25, 2020, 08:50:04 AM
There are some really good places to eat here. 

"Nobody" here is really from "here" as far as I can tell. Everyone asks "where are you from" and the answer is almost never Punta Gorda. I imagine there are not a lot of baby doctors at the hospital.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 25, 2020, 08:57:28 AM
There are some really good places to eat here.

"Nobody" here is really from "here" as far as I can tell. Everyone asks "where are you from" and the answer is almost never Punta Gorda. I imagine there are not a lot of baby doctors at the hospital.
Punta Gorda is pretty good, but I really wish you had moved to "Del Boca Vista"

That is akin to my claiming you can't find good grits or fried chicken in NYC, or the wife claiming French cuisine here is not really French.

Meh, doesn't bother me (not much does).  If folks have regional pride in a simple thing, great.  I couldn't find any good BBQ in Austin.  Of course I was only there a week and just missed the good places obviously, but I might conclude they don't have good BBQ in Austin period.

Everyone likes to be snooty.
Yeah, your friends really, really screwed you when you came to Austin.  Next time I'll be sure to send you in the right direction.  These days, you can't walk 10 yards in this town without tripping over a place that serves good BBQ.

I will say it wasn't always that way.  The smaller towns in Central Texas-- Lockhart, Luling, Elgin-- dominated the top tier of BBQ for most of the past 5 or 6 decades.  But the past ten years have seen Austin proper blow up as a fantastic BBQ town.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 25, 2020, 09:13:09 AM
That is akin to my claiming you can't find good grits or fried chicken in NYC, or the wife claiming French cuisine here is not really French.

Meh, doesn't bother me (not much does).  If folks have regional pride in a simple thing, great.  I couldn't find any good BBQ in Austin.  Of course I was only there a week and just missed the good places obviously, but I might conclude they don't have good BBQ in Austin period.

Everyone likes to be snooty.
Real talk, I had some excellent BBQ brisket in NYC. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 25, 2020, 09:14:00 AM
I'm still angry any time a place I like closes.
Screw that guy for getting to retire happily, I still want my bagels/enchiladas/BBQ or whatever. :)
Ha. 

It's more nice when someone can take it off their hands. But thankfully, somewhere good always seems to be opening. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 25, 2020, 09:23:02 AM
Real talk, I had some excellent BBQ brisket in NYC.
I had some excellent BBQ brisket in the Bay Area!  No lie! 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 25, 2020, 09:25:35 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/07nfSvr.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 25, 2020, 09:31:55 AM
Punta Gorda is pretty good, but I really wish you had moved to "Del Boca Vista"

Where is that?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 25, 2020, 09:34:21 AM
I bet I could find good grits in NYC somewhere.  Whether I'd admit it or not is an unknown.

Nah.

I once read the best steaks in a restaurant are in KC, maybe that is so, maybe it was just an opinion.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 25, 2020, 09:36:57 AM
best steaks are in a small town 30 miles north of me

Archie's Waeside

60 day dry aged

Iowa corn-fed beef
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 25, 2020, 09:40:10 AM
The best steak joint is in my kitchen.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 25, 2020, 09:43:05 AM
I'd agree with that
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 25, 2020, 09:45:28 AM
Thanks pal.

We found our butcher here. We're set. Found the fish monger too. Expensive.

I need to get a boat. Actually two.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 25, 2020, 09:46:44 AM
somehow I'll trust you to find a boat
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 25, 2020, 09:47:39 AM
Where is that?
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/e6f5d1105c2e180a2acaf48c5a091100/tenor.gif?itemid=17147409)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 25, 2020, 09:49:08 AM
somehow I'll trust you to find a boat
I need to find two. The one you were on (and CDawg too) we sold last week. We'll need one to live in Kenosha next summer.

Assuming "they" don't burn it down when (not if) the cop is deemed justified in that shooting.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 25, 2020, 09:51:49 AM
I need to find two. The one you were on (and CDawg too) we sold last week. We'll need one to live in Kenosha next summer.

Assuming "they" don't burn it down when (not if) the cop is deemed justified in that shooting.
I might wait until after the city of Kenosha has burned before buying your new boat there.

In unrelated news, be sure to have a smoke and fire inspector take a look at any boat you might want to buy in Kenosha.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 25, 2020, 10:03:27 AM
stopping in Omaha for a round of golf with friends, then onto Lincoln to drink beer with my brother
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 25, 2020, 10:10:04 AM
stopping in Omaha for a round of golf with friends, then onto Lincoln to drink beer with my brother
Y'all gotta game this weekend?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 25, 2020, 10:34:04 AM
I had some excellent BBQ brisket in the Bay Area!  No lie!


Remember the place? I honestly never have found any. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 25, 2020, 10:42:53 AM
I'm afraid to try the BBQ  around here. There are a couple of places, but none look too promising. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 25, 2020, 12:05:29 PM
Remember the place? I honestly never have found any.
I don't remember it, sadly.  It was maybe 15 years ago when I was working at AMD, and one of my peers at our Santa Clara office insisted that I try it and took me there. I was obviously skeptical, but turns out it was really good.  He drove so I can't even tell you where it was, somewhere within 45 minutes of my hotel which was near the Santa Clara HQ.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 25, 2020, 12:31:46 PM
I need to find two. The one you were on (and CDawg too) we sold last week. We'll need one to live in Kenosha next summer.

Assuming "they" don't burn it down when (not if) the cop is deemed justified in that shooting.
Wasn't a cop.

I'll be down that way for baseball in January, Northport, Braves facility.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 25, 2020, 01:02:15 PM
Where is that?
Probably on UPN around 6:30, weekdays. 

Del Boca Vista:

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 25, 2020, 01:07:36 PM
You can find good anything in big cities.  Just because a BBQ smoker person moves from Mississippi to Los Angeles doesn't mean their BBQ tastes any worse. 

I'm very -ist when it comes to my prejudice for BBQ joints.  I'm ageist, racist, and a body-Famer.  Before tasting a thing, there is a checklist.  We're all guilty of it for one thing or another.
My pre-judgy list - A BBQ joint is promising IF:
the person running it and/or cooking is fat and/or old and/or black
if the menu has sweet tea AND hush puppies

it's a plus if the menu doesn't attach a location to its items.....don't try to be everywheres, just be what you are.  If you see Carolina this and Texas that, it's a bloated generic food factory, not a BBQ joint.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 25, 2020, 01:10:06 PM
Where is that?
Lol. It’s a Seinfeld reference.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 25, 2020, 01:13:02 PM
I once heard if you smell smoke and see a Cadillac and a pickup truck parked outside, it's probably good.

Cadillac did market a pickup truck once, I don't think that counts.

There is a place in NC near Calabash called Big Nell's Truck Stop and it is superb (IMHO) for Q as well as Calabash style seafood.  I took my Dad there long ago and he ordered a grilled cheese sammich, which kind of annoyed me, until he said it was the best GC sammich he'd ever had.

Big Nell ran for county sheriff way back and she almost won.  And she is big.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 25, 2020, 01:14:10 PM
What is Calabash style seafood?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 25, 2020, 01:15:24 PM
Wasn't a cop.

I'll be down that way for baseball in January, Northport, Braves facility.


It was a cop who shot Jacob Blake. It was a kid who shot rioters.

Both shooters will get off. They were justified.

Kenosha will burn again.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 25, 2020, 01:15:53 PM
Lol. It’s a Seinfeld reference.
Never watched a single episode.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 25, 2020, 01:18:32 PM
It was a cop who shot Jacob Blake. It was a kid who shot rioters.

Both shooters will get off. They were justified.

Kenosha will burn again.
Both shooters were justified because they were the only ones armed, right?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 25, 2020, 01:19:49 PM
It was a cop who shot Jacob Blake. It was a kid who shot rioters.

Both shooters will get off. They were justified.

Kenosha will burn again.
Oh yeah, I lose track.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 25, 2020, 01:20:27 PM
Both shooters were justified because they were the only ones armed, right?
Are you saying the victims of the shootings were not armed at all?

I may have missed something.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 25, 2020, 01:20:37 PM
Both shooters were justified because they were the only ones armed, right?
Wrong, as usual.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 25, 2020, 01:21:28 PM
Are you saying the victims of the shootings were not armed at all?

I may have missed something.
The shooters had guns.
The dead people did not.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 25, 2020, 01:24:43 PM
The shooters had guns.
The dead people did not.
One can of course be armed with a deadly weapon that is not a gun.  I'm pretty sure one of the guys shot by that kid had a gun.  Blake apparently had a knife.

The term "armed" can mean with an ax, a knife, a hammer, a baseball bat, etc.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 25, 2020, 01:26:45 PM
One can of course be armed with a deadly weapon that is not a gun.  I'm pretty sure one of the guys shot by that kid had a gun.  Blake apparently had a knife.

The term "armed" can mean with an ax, a knife, a hammer, a baseball bat, etc.
I'm pretty sure you should be sure if you're going to bother having the conversation.  

If all of those terms are "armed" and on equal footing, let's have a duel. I get a gun and you get one of those other weapons.  Then tell me it's fair, we're both armed.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on September 25, 2020, 01:29:08 PM
The term "armed" can mean with an ax, a knife, a hammer, a baseball bat, etc.
Can of tuna
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 25, 2020, 01:31:39 PM
Can of tuna
Pressure cooker.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 25, 2020, 01:31:48 PM
The legal meaning of the term "armed" is rather simple, a deadly weapon.  It has naught to do with armed "equally".

You can legally shoot a person coming at you with a knife or ax or other deadly weapon.  It's in the law.  The fact you have a superior weapon is irrelevant.  Justification for an LEO to discharge his gun is based on this.

Words have specific meanings, usually, and they are particularly important when dealing with legalities.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 25, 2020, 01:33:53 PM
One can of course be armed with a deadly weapon that is not a gun.  I'm pretty sure one of the guys shot by that kid had a gun.  Blake apparently had a knife.

The term "armed" can mean with an ax, a knife, a hammer, a baseball bat, etc.
Don't be pretty sure here. Two of the rioters had handguns. One did not, but he attacked the kid with a skateboard to the head. I'd have shot him too, and also the two others who pointed at him. One of them shot and missed. The kid did not miss.

We all know the story about Blake. No need to rehash that one.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 25, 2020, 01:35:46 PM
Badge, you wouldn't have shot the person with the skateboard because you wouldn't have been there.  A kid actively engaged in a dangerous situation and people are dead that wouldn't have been.


But I understand you're not allowed to acknowledge that fact, because you're on a certain side.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 25, 2020, 01:35:59 PM
Can of tuna
In that case, I've stockpiled more arms than Badge.

(And we were doing so well. Dammit)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 25, 2020, 01:37:58 PM
It's kind of amusing to contemplate a situation with two people, one armed with a gun and one with a knife.  The knife bearer threatens the other and approaches him with knife out and showing obvious intent, but you think the other person with a gun cannot fire because his weapon is superior?  So, he gets gutted and killed?

Armed is armed, the ability of the weapon to project force at a distance is irrelevant.  

Justification is based on this, armed or not and clear intent or not.  It's silly to pretend otherwise.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 25, 2020, 01:38:18 PM
Thanks pal.

We found our butcher here. We're set. Found the fish monger too. Expensive.

I need to get a boat. Actually two.
Did you sell the Lake Michigan Scow?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 25, 2020, 01:39:14 PM
Badge, you wouldn't have shot the person with the skateboard because you wouldn't have been there.  A kid actively engaged in a dangerous situation and people are dead that wouldn't have been.
If a person attacks you with a skateboard, you can legally shoot them.  Justification.

I don't think anyone here thinks that kid should have been where he was.  That is irrelevant.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 25, 2020, 01:40:39 PM
Did you sell the Lake Michigan Scow?
Yes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 25, 2020, 01:41:03 PM
stopping in Omaha for a round of golf with friends, then onto Lincoln to drink beer with my brother
I thought he lived down in the infernal regions with 94
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 25, 2020, 01:42:09 PM
So there's a place around here that does fancy burgers out of a truck. On the one hand, I want to support local and like their food. On the other, I feel like a burger has a kinda low ceiling unless you stuff it or something. Like if I'm eating beef, if could be better and maybe should be. 

Is that weird?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 25, 2020, 01:42:21 PM
If a person attacks you with a skateboard, you can legally shoot them.  Justification.

I don't think anyone here thinks that kid should have been where he was.  That is irrelevant.
I certainly don't think he should have been there. Law enforcement should not be done by civilians.

Anyway, I sat on the back of my boat watching Kenosha burn. Had an AR and a .357 at the ready. And yes, I was ready to use them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 25, 2020, 01:44:02 PM
So there's a place around here that does fancy burgers out of a truck. On the one hand, I want to support local and like their food. On the other, I feel like a burger has a kinda low ceiling unless you stuff it or something. Like if I'm eating beef, if could be better and maybe should be.

Is that weird?
I don't think anyone's food preference is weird.

When I go to a supper club (I'll miss those) I normally get the chopped steak. They are generally the trimmings from the other nice cuts, mixed with some brisket or whatever. And they taste fantastic. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 25, 2020, 01:47:18 PM
The term "armed" can mean with an ax, a knife, a hammer, a baseball bat, etc.
When it comes to discussion OAM is not armed
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on September 25, 2020, 01:52:06 PM
Pressure cooker.
You got yourself a stew going
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 25, 2020, 01:55:27 PM
I fixed a really tasty stew last night.  I had pieces of left over filet mignon and flat iron steak, and a piece of boiled corn.  The wife suggested I shave the corn and add it to the stew, and I did, good move.  Carrots, onion, taters, celery, garlic,  worstershire sauce ...

I just finished it off for lunch.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on September 25, 2020, 01:56:05 PM
Ron Paul just had a stroke during his live web show.  Scary stuff
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 25, 2020, 01:57:31 PM
https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/09/ron-paul-suffers-apparent-medical-emergency-during-live-stream/ (https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/09/ron-paul-suffers-apparent-medical-emergency-during-live-stream/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 25, 2020, 02:05:03 PM
Badge, you wouldn't have shot the person with the skateboard because you wouldn't have been there.  A kid actively engaged in a dangerous situation and people are dead that wouldn't have been.


But I understand you're not allowed to acknowledge that fact, because you're on a certain side.
This skewed way of thinking makes me laugh. So the kid who shot people that were trying to shoot him and who hit him with a skateboard should not have been there? But the people were chasing him because they didn’t like the fact that he used a fire extinguisher to put out the fires that they started, and two of the three people that chased him we’re armed, and you’re saying they should have been there? Get real.

Who was there first? Who was burning things and lighting fires?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 25, 2020, 02:47:51 PM
(https://www.the-sun.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2020/08/ar-us-rittenhousearmed2-comp.jpg?strip=all&quality=100&w=1200&h=800&crop=1)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 25, 2020, 02:51:46 PM
One can of course be armed with a deadly weapon that is not a gun.  I'm pretty sure one of the guys shot by that kid had a gun.  Blake apparently had a knife.

The term "armed" can mean with an ax, a knife, a hammer, a baseball bat, etc.


You can be "armed" with a right hook. 


(https://media1.tenor.com/images/b30d757b5a5bf744a9e1bbf0bde7eaee/tenor.gif?itemid=15841565)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 25, 2020, 03:02:38 PM
You can be "armed" with a right hook.
(https://i.imgur.com/wNh3wri.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 25, 2020, 03:20:09 PM
I'm interested in what charges end up being maintained on that kid.  I'm surprised the findings of the police shooting have not been finalized.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 25, 2020, 03:39:22 PM
I'm interested in what charges end up being maintained on that kid.  I'm surprised the findings of the police shooting have not been finalized.
The WDOJ finished its review and just appointed a former police chief to review its findings. Noble Wray was the police chief in Madison.


(https://i.imgur.com/wihsGtq.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 25, 2020, 03:41:25 PM
As for the kid, I was wrong about the possession charge possibly sticking. As it turns out, a person 12 years or older can carry a long gun (not a pistol) in Wisconsin. An AR is a long gun. No violation there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 25, 2020, 03:42:07 PM
Well, he may walk then, I'm not sure what they can tag him with.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 25, 2020, 04:51:29 PM
Got a letter in the mail from the county collector's office here. It was about the proposed new property tax on my house.

IT IS GOING DOWN.

I about fell over, but I realized quickly that I'm not in Illinois anymore. I looked recently and the taxes on my old house in Palatine went up 30% this year. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 25, 2020, 07:03:27 PM
I wonder if Kyle Rittenhouse was Kyle Jackson, the cops would have sped past him towards the call and bypassing the black kid with the rifle strolling down the street.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 25, 2020, 07:08:18 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/7oMkG0p.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 25, 2020, 08:38:14 PM
As for the kid, I was wrong about the possession charge possibly sticking. As it turns out, a person 12 years or older can carry a long gun (not a pistol) in Wisconsin. An AR is a long gun. No violation there.
I saw something suggesting that was just in a hunting context, though the law might be poorly written to allow a bit of a loophole. So that would be interesting, though not necessarily intentional. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 25, 2020, 09:43:23 PM
I wonder if Kyle Rittenhouse was Kyle Jackson, the cops would have sped past him towards the call and bypassing the black kid with the rifle strolling down the street.
Idk. If Kyle Jackson would have put his hands up and peacefully walked toward the officers like Rittenhouse did then, yeah, maybe.  It’s amazing  when you obey commands and don’t show yourself to be a threat how much the outcome changes.

I wonder if George Floyd had been white if a tenth of the fuss over his death would have been made. We’ll never know I guess. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 26, 2020, 12:28:00 AM
Idk. If Kyle Jackson would have put his hands up and peacefully walked toward the officers like Rittenhouse did then, yeah, maybe.  It’s amazing  when you obey commands and don’t show yourself to be a threat how much the outcome changes.

Don't be blind.  
Before that....before they knew who did what.  Watch the video.  He assumed police "had him" and would take him down, but to his surprise, they just went on by.  With bystanders telling them what he did.  

They drive past him because he couldn't possibly be the shooter!  Because.............???
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 26, 2020, 12:29:31 AM
Idk. If Kyle Jackson would have put his hands up and peacefully walked toward the officers like Rittenhouse did then, yeah, maybe.  It’s amazing  when you obey commands and don’t show yourself to be a threat how much the outcome changes.

I wonder if George Floyd had been white if a tenth of the fuss over his death would have been made. We’ll never know I guess.
I wonder if George Floyd had been white if 4 officers would have knelt on him.  His death, his murder, enjoy your status.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 26, 2020, 01:01:10 AM
I wonder if George Floyd had been white if 4 officers would have knelt on him.  His death, his murder, enjoy your status.
Probably. White people are killed by the cops too. More than blacks, but it’s never a story. Doesn’t advance any political agendas.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 26, 2020, 01:58:42 AM
Probably. White people are killed by the cops too. More than blacks, but it’s never a story. Doesn’t advance any political agendas.
Unarmed?  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 26, 2020, 02:15:44 AM
Unarmed? 
According to a Washington Post database 9 unarmed blacks were killed by police in 2019 compared to 19 unarmed whites.  If you take into account the total of encounters police have with the public an unarmed black man has a better chance of being struck by lightning than being killed by a cop, but it gets played up like it’s a daily occurrence.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 26, 2020, 08:06:49 AM
I wonder if George Floyd had been white if 4 officers would have knelt on him.  His death, his murder, enjoy your status.
4 officers knelt on him? Or was it ONE?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on September 26, 2020, 11:38:20 AM
As old as I am I still managed to learn something new the other day

I'd opened up a can of Planters mixed nuts and was kinda looking at all the different kinds

there were pecans, almonds, Brazil, hazel peanut and cashews

I got to thinking all these nuts except one you can buy unshelled

you never see cashew nuts in their shell

that seemed strange to me so I looked it up

the reason you never see cashew nuts still in their shell is that the shell is poisonous

that blew me away

anyway now you guys know something more then you did

dont you feel smarter


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 26, 2020, 12:11:05 PM
4 officers knelt on him? Or was it ONE?
It was one obviously.  It was heinous, to me, but whether race was a factor I don't know.  One can make everything about race, or some things when there is evidence for it.  Those things do exist obviously, but not everything that happens is about race.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 26, 2020, 02:26:54 PM
Idk. If Kyle Jackson would have put his hands up and peacefully walked toward the officers like Rittenhouse did then, yeah, maybe.  It’s amazing  when you obey commands and don’t show yourself to be a threat how much the outcome changes.

We'll set aside the sort of large question of if you just obey exactly what the government says, only then are you absolved of responsibility for your own death. The bolded is a deeply generous interpretation of what the young man did. 

First he jogs toward the cops with a long gun. He raises one hand as if to wave someone down. Then he raises the other. Then he drops his hands, putting one on the gun. Then he raises them again. Then he puts them down again, one on the gun. Raises, drops, raises, drops one toward the gun again as cops pass. Then the cops ask him if someone is injured and eventually pass him. He even drops his arms again as he approached the last cop car and then is told something that had him hop back. 

I don't know if dropping your hands to your long gun is OK in front of all cops. Maybe it's fine, but I wouldn't want to test it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 26, 2020, 02:27:53 PM
As old as I am I still managed to learn something new the other day

I'd opened up a can of Planters mixed nuts and was kinda looking at all the different kinds

there were pecans, almonds, Brazil, hazel peanut and cashews

I got to thinking all these nuts except one you can buy unshelled

you never see cashew nuts in their shell

that seemed strange to me so I looked it up

the reason you never see cashew nuts still in their shell is that the shell is poisonous

that blew me away

anyway now you guys know something more then you did

dont you feel smarter



I wish you'd said this before and not after I gnawed on a cashew shell because I was curious about the taste. Shoot. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 26, 2020, 11:40:15 PM
@longhorn320 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=16) be careful! https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/26/us/brain-eating-amoeba-found-in-texas-water-supply-trnd/index.html
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 27, 2020, 08:53:15 AM
We went out to eat the other night in the marina restaurant and sat outside. I forgot to spray my legs.

I am a f'ing bloody mess right now. GD No See Ums suck.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 27, 2020, 05:35:14 PM
  Those things do exist obviously, but not everything that happens is about race.
When has anyone suggested this, ever?

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 27, 2020, 05:35:34 PM
We went out to eat the other night in the marina restaurant and sat outside. I forgot to spray my legs.

I am a f'ing bloody mess right now. GD No See Ums suck.
In FL, they're called gnats.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 27, 2020, 05:35:55 PM
@longhorn320 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=16) be careful! https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/26/us/brain-eating-amoeba-found-in-texas-water-supply-trnd/index.html
It eats brains?  He's safe.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 27, 2020, 05:37:24 PM
We'll set aside the sort of large question of if you just obey exactly what the government says, only then are you absolved of responsibility for your own death. The bolded is a deeply generous interpretation of what the young man did.

First he jogs toward the cops with a long gun. He raises one hand as if to wave someone down. Then he raises the other. Then he drops his hands, putting one on the gun. Then he raises them again. Then he puts them down again, one on the gun. Raises, drops, raises, drops one toward the gun again as cops pass. Then the cops ask him if someone is injured and eventually pass him. He even drops his arms again as he approached the last cop car and then is told something that had him hop back.

I don't know if dropping your hands to your long gun is OK in front of all cops. Maybe it's fine, but I wouldn't want to test it.
Yes.
And if he was black and ALL of the above was precisely the same, ZERO cops would have asked him for intel or driven right past him.

THAT is institutional racism.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 27, 2020, 05:53:08 PM
Zero cops?  ZERO?

Huh.  I don't know how we know that.  Maybe it's a made up "fact" to fit one's prejudices?

A lot of the police around here are black, over 60%.  Maybe they would have behaved differently, if all the whites, every single one, is racist?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 27, 2020, 05:53:58 PM
When has anyone suggested this, ever?


"And if he was black and ALL of the above was precisely the same, ZERO cops would have asked him for intel or driven right past him."

That comes pretty close.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 27, 2020, 05:59:49 PM
None of the cops there.  Zero of them.  They'd see a black man with a gun and their immediate (involuntary?) reaction wouldn't be "source of intel", it would be "THREAT!"


So no, it's nothing like what you're misconstruing.  Again.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 27, 2020, 06:06:05 PM
I didn't know you had such intimate knowledge of the police department in Kenosha Wisconsin.

Obviously, there are many cops in other places, like around here, so I'm hesitant to paint them all with a broad brush.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 27, 2020, 06:11:53 PM
None of the cops there.  Zero of them.  They'd see a black man with a gun and their immediate (involuntary?) reaction wouldn't be "source of intel", it would be "THREAT!"


So no, it's nothing like what you're misconstruing.  Again. 
So, you're claiming the Kenosha PD has ZERO black cops?  None at all?  And you know this .... how?

Perhaps they have some in reality, even if the percentage is lower than the city's population.

But, you claimed zero, none, they are all white, in your view.  I'm just wondering if you base this on EVIDIDENCE and fact or just a leap to a conclusion that fits what you want to believe?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 27, 2020, 06:30:26 PM
So, you're claiming the Kenosha PD has ZERO black cops?  None at all?  And you know this .... how?

Perhaps they have some in reality, even if the percentage is lower than the city's population.

But, you claimed zero, none, they are all white, in your view.  I'm just wondering if you base this on EVIDIDENCE and fact or just a leap to a conclusion that fits what you want to believe?

Now you're just trolling.  Never did I suggest any PD lacks black cops.  No functional human could extract that from my posts.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 27, 2020, 06:32:57 PM
None of the cops there.  Zero of them.  They'd see a black man with a gun and their immediate (involuntary?) reaction wouldn't be "source of intel", it would be "THREAT!"


So no, it's nothing like what you're misconstruing.  Again. 

None to me means zero.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 27, 2020, 06:38:41 PM
So, we've gone from "no cops" period, to no cops in Kenosha, to perhaps no cops in the video of the events of the night.

Notice how clarity in posting is important.

Say what you mean, and you won't be misconstrued, if in fact you are misconstrued, instead of stating over generalizations that require multiple clarifications.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 27, 2020, 06:46:57 PM
None of the cops there.  Zero of them.  They'd see a black man with a gun and their immediate (involuntary?) reaction wouldn't be "source of intel", it would be "THREAT!"


So no, it's nothing like what you're misconstruing.  Again. 
I disagree. I say every single cop in the world would have treated Rittenhouse the exact same had he black.

See, I can do that too.  We all can. All of us can just say whatever we want and pretend it’s a fact. Where’s that get us, though? 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 27, 2020, 06:52:15 PM
When has anyone suggested this, ever?


Here’s the thing though. Yeah, no one had ever suggested EVERYTHING was about race but it sure seems people can pick and choose what they want to make about race.  What made the Floyd incident racial other than people just deciding they wanted it to be?


https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/09/26/us/ohio-woman-tased-football-game-mask-trnd/index.html

Have you seen this story? Was this racially charged?  Who gets to decide that? Do you think it might be viewed differently if you switch the races of the cop and woman?


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on September 27, 2020, 07:08:18 PM
BLUF:  know what you're talking about before passing judgement from your comfortable lair.

It's called assessment and situational awareness.  Police are taught and practice it regularly...

Temper; Intent; Means.

..... and thats how it works.  People can call it racism if they'd like.... and apparently they do.  When a culture is steeped in drugs, violence, and general aggression toward police and/or authority, they're going to be scrutinized more.  Period.  And, fairly. 

Is it race based? No it's not.  It's culture based.  The distinction is huge and its highly overlooked, and I would suggest purposely. 

All three items above (temper/intent/means) have to be assessed before escalation of force even begins....

Escalation of force:

Force is matched+1... example: of a guy bucks up to police, the police have justification to deploy non lethal force. 

Force is never de-escalated.  Once a person has deployed non-lethal force, they can't pocket that force and go back to show of force.... once it's out it stays out until the circumstance is defused or the aggressor is safely detained.


Now... i offer this as just a fleeting taste of training and training that is exercised by police regularly.  It isn't them who need training- its the public, and especially certain cultures within that public.  I mean, if a rocket crashes, are you going to listen to the engineer about the cause?  A person steeped in knowledge and experience?  Or, does the account offered by Billy Bob, who happens to be both high and drunk, fulfill your curiosity?  When we dismiss the account of police, and take the assailant's word, that is exactly what we're doing. 

Sure there are bad cops.  They are few, though.  There are more who shouldn't be police as they don't have the personality (read: emotional control) to be such.  Those are where likely 80-90% of the problems with police start... the other 10-20% is the freakin' reporting/accounting of incidents from people like Billy Bob.  .....And then the emotional response by people who have no control over their emotions.

there is a shit ton more to being a cop than some jerkwad arm chair quarterback three hours after the game with opportunity to reflect on circumstances and who has no understanding of the position of police.  Its damn easy to blame "racism"... and its gotta be "systemic", right? 

What is proven systemic? Pop culture, (read: music, video, movies) promoting violence and violence toward police, and idiots "life imitating art" (including the police here) living out their expectations of what life should be like.  I mean, name ONE movie off the top of your head set in 1750+ that DIDN'T have a gun in it or someone getting whacked on? 



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 27, 2020, 07:59:35 PM
None of the cops there.  Zero of them.  They'd see a black man with a gun and their immediate (involuntary?) reaction wouldn't be "source of intel", it would be "THREAT!"


So no, it's nothing like what you're misconstruing.  Again. 

WTF?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 28, 2020, 03:02:08 AM
I disagree. I say every single cop in the world would have treated Rittenhouse the exact same had he black.

See, I can do that too.  We all can. All of us can just say whatever we want and pretend it’s a fact. Where’s that get us, though? 


It makes one of us being honest and the other lying.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 28, 2020, 03:03:37 AM
So, we've gone from "no cops" period, to no cops in Kenosha, to perhaps no cops in the video of the events of the night.

Notice how clarity in posting is important.

Say what you mean, and you won't be misconstrued, if in fact you are misconstrued, instead of stating over generalizations that require multiple clarifications.
I can't reply without being disrespectful here, so I'll just stop.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 28, 2020, 03:06:32 AM

there is a shit ton more to being a cop than some jerkwad arm chair quarterback three hours after the game with opportunity to reflect on circumstances and who has no understanding of the position of police.  Its damn easy to blame "racism"... and its gotta be "systemic", right? 

No one has said being a cop is easy.  It's hard enough so that they should probably be pickier and more selective (if possible).  

And the systematic racism stands without any cop business.  We could erase every moment of outrage from an unarmed black guy being murdered by cops and systematic racism would still fully exist.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 28, 2020, 06:36:48 AM
It makes one of us being honest and the other lying.
You were being honest? OAM, you literally said there wasn’t one cop there who would have handled the situation the same had Rittenhouse been black.

You say that without having met any of them or knowing anything about them personally, knowing anything about their background, their training, or their beliefs. You said it based on one thing. They were white cops. In your narrow view of the world that is all the information you need.  That’s a statement that should make you ashamed.  It isn’t reasonable.  That’s the kind of statement that makes reasonable people roll their eyes and request that only the adults be allowed to speak.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 28, 2020, 06:41:24 AM
The cops were not making any arrests that night. None. Not Rittenhouse, not the people who attacked him, not the people who burned down the city. Not any white people. Not any black people.

That changed when the US Marshalls showed up in force.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Drew4UTk on September 28, 2020, 11:37:58 AM
No one has said being a cop is easy.  It's hard enough so that they should probably be pickier and more selective (if possible). 

And the systematic racism stands without any cop business.  We could erase every moment of outrage from an unarmed black guy being murdered by cops and systematic racism would still fully exist.
racism certainly exists.  it's been dissipating, like a bad bout of whooping cough, for at least two generations i'd suggest, and, i question openly if it would have survived another generation without gaslighting.  

what is getting worse is the delta between values across the spectrum of cultures and sub cultures, but mostly what is getting worse is the systemic lack of regard for someone different, someone who has faith, someone who has different sexual orientation, someone who subscribes to opposing political ideology... and the list goes on- but hangs up like a thorn in velvet when sliding past 'political ideology', and which in my opinion is the intent, here.

YOU believe that racism is 'systemic' because that is what you're being told to believe is my guess.  I don't see it.  I see the opposite, especially now among encounters with whites and blacks.  I see people trying to let other people know they respect them.  What I am glad to say I DON'T see is quarter being given to those set to disrupt- destroy- incite- and to, simply, 'hate'.  I see it on television, though.  On television I see pandering to the lawless as if official pardon is granted prior to the trial when someone lashes out based on their perceptions and breaks law....  

In person I see a friend of mine- a middle aged black man who is raising a family and providing for them the best way he can, and doing a exceptional job of it... I see his masonry 'side business' and dedication to extended family, employing them, growing to surpass his 'primary' job as a lineman for the electric company... I see him approach me, cautiously, and make small talk, and then offer of his own volition "Man, I hope you don't think me or any of my family are into (interpreted as 'supporting') this mess going on right now, or that you think less of me for being a lifelong democrat"... and I was ashamed at that moment, because that is what he perceived as a possibility... I asked him whatever would make him think that and he responded "I feel I have to reach out and openly set this straight- every thing my mom and dad and their mom and dad, my wife and I and what I try to teach my kids is being exploited for the gain of people who don't have one bit of skin in the game".... and that^ is but one example, but the one that was better defined than similar discussions that relied on innuendo or 'reading between the lines' in communication.   

and that is what i think is happening- is exploitation.  reason, rationale, and logic are gone when they're rivaled by 'feels'... 'Feels' reigns.  People literally 'feel' they can set out to destroy the manifestation of others diligence, hard work, and careful planning culminating over a lifetime if not more because they 'feel' slighted or because they (or someone they 'feel' attached to) got their comeuppance for their own actions instead of 'getting by with it'. They use that as an excuse to loot, pillage, plunder and in some sort of state mocking 'righteous indignation' more than anything,  but is far from 'injustice' and wouldn't exist if not for the manipulations of those 'without skin in the game' who will retire to their comfortable and secure lairs after they leave the area they incited unrest- and leave the scorched earth to the plebs who only serve one purpose for them: which is to recognize their power.    

@OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) , you can fall prey to the shenanigan's of manipulators if you please- that is your prerogative.  You can sink your teeth into the bait if you want, and even allow it to trigger emotional state that overrides logic as so many have.. but that is on you... I'd rather see you, as i would anyone and everyone else, try their best to let the emotional charge wash through, and then make determinations based on rationale, accountability of logic, reconciliation against their own environment and determination if the conditions being suggested have weight by your own witness, and then determine if you want to be a part of 'it'- forwarding the position in amplification... or, if you decide to take the opposite and forward the position in critique... else... you just recognize it as something you don't know about other than others are talking about it... that position is up to you... but be fair about it- use facts, not conjecture; use logic, not emotional 'feel' responses; use compassion and empathy not callousness and self righteousness; think it through... consider the condition that is causing this practice is done by flawed humans, most likely, and almost certainly humans that were in a condition that didn't offer them the opportunity to 'think it through'.    

this group is a pretty good group for applying the above... there is another group present on this site that can get riled and take positions they're willing to plant a flag on and defend... and for almost ALL of us, it's ALL 'vicarious' anyway... and, I am amazed and horrified at how we let those with an agenda define and describe our environment and we dismiss our own data mining of that same environment.  I'm willing and ready to listen to opposition of my comments from someone who has experienced and has first hand account of what is being suggested- and which is presented bereft of calls to emotional response at least in initial presentation.  I'm certain these circumstances exist, but I'm equally certain they are the exception and not the rule.   I'm certain enough to know the outrage being manifest is manufactured based on the trigger device of those intent to manipulate, and far far FAR more than any personal encounters or experiences capable of triggering similar response is.... 

but.... WTF do i know... that^ is just my opinion. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 28, 2020, 12:42:35 PM
racism certainly exists.  it's been dissipating, like a bad bout of whooping cough, for at least two generations i'd suggest, and, i question openly if it would have survived another generation without gaslighting

what is getting worse is the delta between values across the spectrum of cultures and sub cultures, but mostly what is getting worse is the systemic lack of regard for someone different, someone who has faith, someone who has different sexual orientation, someone who subscribes to opposing political ideology... and the list goes on- but hangs up like a thorn in velvet when sliding past 'political ideology', and which in my opinion is the intent, here.

YOU believe that racism is 'systemic' because that is what you're being told to believe is my guess.  I don't see it.  I see the opposite, especially now among encounters with whites and blacks.  I see people trying to let other people know they respect them.  What I am glad to say I DON'T see is quarter being given to those set to disrupt- destroy- incite- and to, simply, 'hate'.  I see it on television, though.  On television I see pandering to the lawless as if official pardon is granted prior to the trial when someone lashes out based on their perceptions and breaks law.... 

In person I see a friend of mine- a middle aged black man who is raising a family and providing for them the best way he can, and doing a exceptional job of it... I see his masonry 'side business' and dedication to extended family, employing them, growing to surpass his 'primary' job as a lineman for the electric company... I see him approach me, cautiously, and make small talk, and then offer of his own volition "Man, I hope you don't think me or any of my family are into (interpreted as 'supporting') this mess going on right now, or that you think less of me for being a lifelong democrat"... and I was ashamed at that moment, because that is what he perceived as a possibility... I asked him whatever would make him think that and he responded "I feel I have to reach out and openly set this straight- every thing my mom and dad and their mom and dad, my wife and I and what I try to teach my kids is being exploited for the gain of people who don't have one bit of skin in the game".... and that^ is but one example, but the one that was better defined than similar discussions that relied on innuendo or 'reading between the lines' in communication. 

and that is what i think is happening- is exploitation.  reason, rationale, and logic are gone when they're rivaled by 'feels'... 'Feels' reigns.  People literally 'feel' they can set out to destroy the manifestation of others diligence, hard work, and careful planning culminating over a lifetime if not more because they 'feel' slighted or because they (or someone they 'feel' attached to) got their comeuppance for their own actions instead of 'getting by with it'. They use that as an excuse to loot, pillage, plunder and in some sort of state mocking 'righteous indignation' more than anything,  but is far from 'injustice' and wouldn't exist if not for the manipulations of those 'without skin in the game' who will retire to their comfortable and secure lairs after they leave the area they incited unrest- and leave the scorched earth to the plebs who only serve one purpose for them: which is to recognize their power.   

@OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) , you can fall prey to the shenanigan's of manipulators if you please- that is your prerogative.  You can sink your teeth into the bait if you want, and even allow it to trigger emotional state that overrides logic as so many have.. but that is on you... I'd rather see you, as i would anyone and everyone else, try their best to let the emotional charge wash through, and then make determinations based on rationale, accountability of logic, reconciliation against their own environment and determination if the conditions being suggested have weight by your own witness, and then determine if you want to be a part of 'it'- forwarding the position in amplification... or, if you decide to take the opposite and forward the position in critique... else... you just recognize it as something you don't know about other than others are talking about it... that position is up to you... but be fair about it- use facts, not conjecture; use logic, not emotional 'feel' responses; use compassion and empathy not callousness and self righteousness; think it through... consider the condition that is causing this practice is done by flawed humans, most likely, and almost certainly humans that were in a condition that didn't offer them the opportunity to 'think it through'.   

this group is a pretty good group for applying the above... there is another group present on this site that can get riled and take positions they're willing to plant a flag on and defend... and for almost ALL of us, it's ALL 'vicarious' anyway... and, I am amazed and horrified at how we let those with an agenda define and describe our environment and we dismiss our own data mining of that same environment.  I'm willing and ready to listen to opposition of my comments from someone who has experienced and has first hand account of what is being suggested- and which is presented bereft of calls to emotional response at least in initial presentation.  I'm certain these circumstances exist, but I'm equally certain they are the exception and not the rule.  I'm certain enough to know the outrage being manifest is manufactured based on the trigger device of those intent to manipulate, and far far FAR more than any personal encounters or experiences capable of triggering similar response is....

but.... WTF do i know... that^ is just my opinion.
GREAT post.  Every word!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 28, 2020, 04:24:01 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/CQkiGrE.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/yA4r7Ld.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/AVzgcd9.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 28, 2020, 07:28:29 PM


YOU believe that racism is 'systemic' because that is what you're being told to believe is my guess.  
Not at all.  This isn't some recent discovery or blind outrage that was born yesterday.  It's inherent and has been our entire lives.  
It has absolutely gotten better.  It absolutely still exists.  

The systematic aspect is woven into our society, again, even if you throw the last 10 or 20 or 50 outrages over black people being killed by cops or whoever.  It's not about killings, really, it's about day-to-day things we all know about.  And some of us, somehow, just brush it off as unimportant I guess?  

People aren't good at treating strangers as individuals.  I think that's a big part of it.  Think along the lines of the black lady being observed/followed closely at the store by the worker.  Or the otherwise equal resume with the last name of Jackson vs Kensington.

It's a first glance at someone and before you have 2 seconds to tell anything else, you see their skin tone and probably involuntarily react friend or foe......there are still too many people seeing a dark tone and a foe reaction.  Threat.  Guilty until proven innocent.  Complimenting at what an eloquent speaker they are.  

Yes, the people running the BLM group are radical nuts.  I don't know who disagrees with that.  But it's not about them.  It's about the ongoing ebb and flow of the continued improvement (ie - advancement) of racial equality.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 28, 2020, 07:29:06 PM
GREAT post.  Every word!

Yup, well stated @Drew4UTk (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1) 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 28, 2020, 10:26:06 PM
Not at all.  This isn't some recent discovery or blind outrage that was born yesterday.  It's inherent and has been our entire lives. 
It has absolutely gotten better.  It absolutely still exists. 

The systematic aspect is woven into our society, again, even if you throw the last 10 or 20 or 50 outrages over black people being killed by cops or whoever.  It's not about killings, really, it's about day-to-day things we all know about.  And some of us, somehow, just brush it off as unimportant I guess? 

People aren't good at treating strangers as individuals.  I think that's a big part of it.  Think along the lines of the black lady being observed/followed closely at the store by the worker.  Or the otherwise equal resume with the last name of Jackson vs Kensington.

It's a first glance at someone and before you have 2 seconds to tell anything else, you see their skin tone and probably involuntarily react friend or foe......there are still too many people seeing a dark tone and a foe reaction.  Threat.  Guilty until proven innocent.  Complimenting at what an eloquent speaker they are. 

Yes, the people running the BLM group are radical nuts.  I don't know who disagrees with that.  But it's not about them.  It's about the ongoing ebb and flow of the continued improvement (ie - advancement) of racial equality. 
A lot to unpack there. You are right that people aren’t great at treating strangers as individuals.  I’ve said many times that I don’t have time to get to know everybody in the world on an individual basis.  I make snap decisions about people and they make snap decisions about me based on a lot of things, race being one of them, but it is so much more than race. It’s age, sex, dress, demeanor, hairstyle, weight, tattoos, piercings, etc.

I promise you a white guy who walks into a Department store wearing a sleeveless AC/DC shirt, jeans hanging off his ass, sporting a mullet, tattoos on his arms, and a cigarette tucked behind his ear is getting looked at just as hard as the black woman. In fact, probably harder because he is a man.  I also promise you that most people wouldn’t view a 50 year old black man in khakis and a polo as threat to their well-being.

And while some may decry the fact that we make these judgements at all I’d argue it’s just instincts and intuition keeping us safe. Are those instincts going to wrong at times? Absolutely, but they are going to serve us well too.

If I’m walking alone at night and see 6 young black guys wearing skull caps and wife beaters  I’m finding a different way to go.  Those might be the 6 nicest, gentle,  most God fearing young men in the world but I’m trusting my instincts.  I don’t know them and can’t do a background check before I get to them.  If I see 6 young black guys at night in a shirt and tie my threat level goes down substantially.

I think so much that is attributed to race is really culture, but so many people want to make it about race.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 28, 2020, 10:44:00 PM


And while some may decry the fact that we make these judgements at all I’d argue it’s just instincts and intuition keeping us safe. Are those instincts going to wrong at times? Absolutely, but they are going to serve us well too.
I suspect this is the case, which is why we can label the racism as systematic.  Even if it's a learned, now involuntary act over time, it's still a disservice to the next individual you (we) encounter.


We are skittish when the grass moves on the off chance it's a predator, when 99.5% of the time, it's just the wind.  And in that case, it's a harmless learned involuntary act because the grass doesn't get offended.  But when the moving grass is a person, there's a problem.  


And the example of the black guys in wife beaters vs the ones in ties is a precise example of the above.  Add to that their reaction of possibly fulfilling your reaction by them.  If someone unfairly assumes you're a threat....you're more likely to behave like one, if only to mess with them.  People, however they're dressed, want respect and to be treated like people.  We all know this, but our actions don't align with that.  


All I know is that until we unlearn our instinctual, survivalist reactions to each other, we won't get to the goal of harmony.  
*caveat of same sex interactions, as the most dangerous entity to a lone woman is a man
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on September 28, 2020, 11:34:47 PM
I suspect this is the case, which is why we can label the racism as systematic.  Even if it's a learned, now involuntary act over time, it's still a disservice to the next individual you (we) encounter.






It’s not racist if you view white people of a certain age, sex, or dress the same way but it gets labeled as racist as if white people skate on these judgments.  They don’t.



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 29, 2020, 12:05:22 AM
It’s not racist if you view white people of a certain age, sex, or dress the same way but it gets labeled as racist as if white people skate on these judgments.  They don’t.
It wouldn't be, you're right.  But I'm afraid an automatic suspicion of a subset of white people dressed a certain way it's matched when the people's skin is dark.  At least the subset expands unfairly.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 29, 2020, 12:41:48 AM

Now... i offer this as just a fleeting taste of training and training that is exercised by police regularly.  It isn't them who need training- its the public, and especially certain cultures within that public.  I mean, if a rocket crashes, are you going to listen to the engineer about the cause?  A person steeped in knowledge and experience?  Or, does the account offered by Billy Bob, who happens to be both high and drunk, fulfill your curiosity?  When we dismiss the account of police, and take the assailant's word, that is exactly what we're doing. 

To a degree, the use of force escalation interests me, though at the very least it seems like it can be misapplied as people in the midst of mental health crises seem to end up dead at the hands of police more than we would hope, but I want to concentrate on the paragraph above because it kinda locks into 


The argument is not that the police need to be trained better with how to deal with the public, who can be morons, dopey and whatnot, but it is the public that need to be trained to deal with police, who are both in theory public servants and the more responsible parties. That latter part confuses me to a degree. It sort of infantilizes police. They need other people to be extra docile or else they'll use their publicly granted access to violence. I suppose I could treat them like most other midlevel government employees, which would be assuming they're low-grade incompetent and lazy, but culture has taught me that LEOs boast a baseline level of competency and responsibility, and perhaps that's where I'm getting it wrong. 

The engineer explanation is interesting. Like, if the rocket crashes based on an engineer’s work, and said engineer will face consequences for it, maybe we still go to that engineer, but chances are we don’t. And if that engineer could stretch the truth and face few consequences, then I assume we wouldn’t want to go right to him/her at all, as they have incentive to cover their backside. Obviously the equivalent to the “assailant,” a somewhat inaccurate and loaded term in this case, isn’t Billy Bob, who I guess watched the rocket? It’s the people incinerated in the rocket. So that makes the metaphor kinda unwieldy. Maybe it means police are at their base engineers or state violence? That’s an interesting way to look at them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 29, 2020, 06:48:47 AM
This engineer would lose his license/job if he made a mistake that resulted in the death or serious injury of a person. 

Of course, this engineer is not protected by an union, so, there's that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 29, 2020, 06:59:59 AM
Even when LEOs are not criminally charged for mistakes, they do tend to get fired, and it's a blemish on their record.

Back in the day, LEOs had billy clubs, and used them, so often they were in effect banned.  I think some now have those retractable "wands" that I imagine pack a punch, but not to the head.  If these suspects don't somehow manage to elude two cops and get up off the ground and walk away, none of this happens (except the knee thing).

Nearly every day I'm in the park and have occasion to chit chat a bit with other folks, white, black, Asian, Hispanic, young, old, whatever.  This is a pretty varied community and folks seem mostly to get along.  I've seen one incident (partially) where there were raised voices.  I couldn't tell what was the matter, it may have been a group of "homeless men" yelling about something.  We have a fair number of homeless men about, more now than preCOVID it seems.  

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 29, 2020, 07:17:49 AM
Just picked up this guy.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/879734963 (https://www.gunbroker.com/item/879734963)

Fired one over the weekend at a shop and really liked it. Easy to handle. About $150 less than the shop wanted.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 29, 2020, 07:26:14 AM
Yup, well stated @Drew4UTk (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1)
YUP -EVERY WORD
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 29, 2020, 07:32:53 AM
If I’m walking alone at night and see 6 young black guys wearing skull caps and wife beaters  I’m finding a different way to go.  Those might be the 6 nicest, gentle,  most God fearing young men in the world but I’m trusting my instincts.  I don’t know them and can’t do a background check before I get to them.  If I see 6 young black guys at night in a shirt and tie my threat level goes down substantially.

Absolutely,but I gotta tell ya When congress convenes or 8 Board of Directors and a CEO assemble it usually doesn't end well for me either
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 29, 2020, 07:39:51 AM
Prejudice technically is thinking everyone of a certain group is "bad".  Seeing a person and judging him based on external appearances is not prejudice, it is judgment.

Some group of large bald white men with swastika tatoos would best be avoided as well.

I'd certainly rather be in the company of well dressed people of whatever color.  I'm sure police make these judgments as well, and react accordingly.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 29, 2020, 07:41:07 AM
This engineer would lose his license/job if he made a mistake that resulted in the death or serious injury of a person.

Of course, this engineer is not protected by an union, so, there's that.
ERGO Union Electricians,Carpenters,Pipe Fitters,Steel Workers,etc, must suck and are thugs.Those assholes should learn to work honorably and recieve Golden Parachutes and leave companies/corporations in 2-3 years in worse shape than they found them.Yes sir screw the lot of them.Oh and let's not forget the honorable statesmen who dumped their stocks before the shutdowns ,even though those very assemblies decreed it illegal after the 2008 housing bust.Of course my portfolio takes a dump and I don't benefit from all of the write-offs of the afore mentioned shining examples.Yup just living the dream in middle class,middle America
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 29, 2020, 07:47:56 AM
ERGO Union Electricians,Carpenters,Pipe Fitters,Steel Workers,etc, must suck and are thugs.Those assholes should learn to work honorably and recieve Golden Parachutes and leave companies/corporations in 2-3 years in worse shape than they found them.Yes sir screw the lot of them
My problem is with public sector unions, like police, teachers, AFSCME, etc. They are not needed.

I don't have any problem with private sector unions for electricians, carpenters, pipe fitters, steel workers, etc.

I also don't like it when a state (like Illinois) makes it a law that union shops must exclusively be used for public works projects.

Right to work is the way to go. Competition is good.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 29, 2020, 07:57:48 AM
Law is law and the suits and ties need to swing just like dew rags,but thats not happening.I'm not in jest the middle class is teetering and sooner or later they are going to twist off.This year could have been the Dems greatsest hour but they shit the bed.Bidden,Harris,Pelosi the working class lost better friends in Ant Traps.94 is right - I weep for the future
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 29, 2020, 08:07:02 AM
The "suits and ties" often are able to maneuver around the edges of the law and thus skate.  And there are a lot of "legal" if unethical ways they can succeed.

Relatively few of them break the law, I think, because the downside is very down for them, so they are careful.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 29, 2020, 08:21:17 AM
The suits and ties make donations to the people who make the laws.


There is your answer.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 29, 2020, 08:24:19 AM
The "suits and ties" often are able to maneuver around the edges of the law and thus skate.  And there are a lot of "legal" if unethical ways they can succeed.

Relatively few of them break the law, I think, because the downside is very down for them, so they are careful.
CAREFUL?Maybe we reside in parallel uninverses.In Russia or China,Finestein and that lot would be taken out and shot.The knew damn well they broke the law not only in the Letter but Spirit.This is what happens when special interest lobbyists are allowed in the halls of Congress.Being formerly from Cincinnati I don't have to tell you what Keating and his ilk wrought.Got a relative slap on the wrist.While farming families that scrimped and saved in the S&Ls lost everything.The shame of this whole thing is those that allowed all this to tranpire and/or particpate will never see real justice - at least not in this world.Unless of course this Phoenix can rise from the ashes
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 29, 2020, 08:30:34 AM
Yes, most are careful, in my experience.  Some are not and get caught.

The risk:reward balance favors staying just inside the law, ethics be damned, and folks can make out very well inside the law if they are unethical.

Why break the law and risk it when you don't have to?  The extra whatever isn't worth it.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 29, 2020, 08:30:56 AM
The suits and ties make donations to the people who make the laws.


There is your answer.
Time to drain the swamp really.Perhaps Richard Pryor was right "In America there is justice - just us"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on September 29, 2020, 10:20:29 AM
Don't forget to add hoodies and t-shirts to suits and ties.    Suits and ties is a little dated. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 29, 2020, 10:54:37 AM

The argument is not that the police need to be trained better with how to deal with the public, who can be morons, dopey and whatnot, but it is the public that need to be trained to deal with police, who are both in theory public servants and the more responsible parties. That latter part confuses me to a degree. It sort of infantilizes police. They need other people to be extra docile or else they'll use their publicly granted access to violence. I suppose I could treat them like most other midlevel government employees, which would be assuming they're low-grade incompetent and lazy, but culture has taught me that LEOs boast a baseline level of competency and responsibility, and perhaps that's where I'm getting it wrong.

in my experience, the baseline is low
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 29, 2020, 10:56:24 AM
Nearly every day I'm in the park and have occasion to chit chat a bit with other folks, white, black, Asian, Hispanic, young, old, whatever.  This is a pretty varied community and folks seem mostly to get along.  I've seen one incident (partially) where there were raised voices.  I couldn't tell what was the matter, it may have been a group of "homeless men" yelling about something.  We have a fair number of homeless men about, more now than preCOVID it seems. 


why aren't there more homeless women?

discrimination vs men?  More military veterans are men?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 29, 2020, 10:58:28 AM
Just picked up this guy.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/879734963 (https://www.gunbroker.com/item/879734963)

Fired one over the weekend at a shop and really liked it. Easy to handle. About $150 less than the shop wanted.
THAT should get someone's attention
and, ya don't need to a crack shot to hit something or someone
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 29, 2020, 11:00:43 AM
why aren't there more homeless women?

discrimination vs men?  More military veterans are men?
The ratio around here is probably 30:1.  I suspect women truly homeless don't fare very well.  They also may be more prone to using shelters.  I think a lot of the men use a shelter, the Atlanta Mission is one, and are out and about during the day.  By and large they don't solicit money, a few do, but most do not, here.  Maybe I look too poor.

There is one part of the park where 4-5-6 sit on benches and chat most of the day.  I've made a few sandwiches for them when asked for food, these always ask for money when you give them the sandwich.  I don't carry money with me when I'm out, I'm usually out walking or jogging.


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 29, 2020, 01:42:00 PM
Drizzling rain here today and 59°F.  I did some wind sprints in the garage.  My "wind" is slowly returning after two weeks for not running.  I have asked a lot of folks why the human body gets "out of shape", I don't mean fat, I mean where you lose muscle tone and "wind".  The only answer seems to be that keeping your muscles "toned" and in shape takes more Calories, which we are designed to conserve oddly enough.

I'd like to invent a pill that keeps you in shape.  Might be worth some money.

Another thing I'd like is a cook top with stir bars, you can stir your food magnetically.  Wouldn't work with induction I imagine.

I bought a couple pieces of tuna yesterday at WF and expect to grill them tonight, but our outlet on the deck is out.  Nothing in the panel that is thrown.  Everything else is hot.  No GFI on the outlet.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 29, 2020, 01:57:19 PM
good proteins for muscles

such as tuna
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 29, 2020, 02:57:25 PM
I think generally speaking "we" eat far too much protein.

And sugar, which I try and avoid.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 29, 2020, 03:29:22 PM
I enjoy protein and eat it much too often, but I don't eat as much sugar as most.

balance
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 29, 2020, 03:30:20 PM
I enjoy protein and eat it much too often, but I don't eat as much sugar as most.

balance
Same. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on September 29, 2020, 03:32:06 PM
I'd like to invent a pill Pilsner that keeps you in shape.  Might be worth some money.
FIFY
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 29, 2020, 03:38:26 PM
meat at almost every meal - beef, pork, chicken, fish, sausage

sometimes just oatmeal and fruit for breakfast

green Vegetables mostly.  Lettuce, green beans, peas, Sauerkraut, bell peppers, all types of peppers, onions, Brussel sprouts, spinach, carrots, corn, squash


don't eat many carbs these days.  Maybe a potato baked or sliced and baked in my oven.  no pasta, no bread, no chips

and no sweets, desserts, candy, ice cream, soda, none of it,  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 29, 2020, 04:05:51 PM
As I sit here eating a piece of apple pie at lunch, I reflect that one of my life's struggles is my love of sugar and fat, particularly when combined. Sigh.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 29, 2020, 04:11:37 PM
As I sit here eating a piece of apple pie at lunch, I reflect that one of my life's struggles is my love of sugar and fat, particularly when combined. Sigh.
While I generally avoid many sweets, apple pie is my vice. I absolutely love apple pie. I'm getting hungry. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 29, 2020, 05:38:38 PM
meat at almost every meal - beef, pork, chicken, fish, sausage

sometimes just oatmeal and fruit for breakfast

green Vegetables mostly.  Lettuce, green beans, peas, Sauerkraut, bell peppers, all types of peppers, onions, Brussel sprouts, spinach, carrots, corn, squash


don't eat many carbs these days.  Maybe a potato baked or sliced and baked in my oven.  no pasta, no bread, no chips

and no sweets, desserts, candy, ice cream, soda, none of it, 

Beer is carbs. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on September 29, 2020, 06:36:57 PM
The ratio around here is probably 30:1.  I suspect women truly homeless don't fare very well.  They also may be more prone to using shelters.  I think a lot of the men use a shelter, the Atlanta Mission is one, and are out and about during the day.  By and large they don't solicit money, a few do, but most do not, here.  Maybe I look too poor.

There is one part of the park where 4-5-6 sit on benches and chat most of the day.  I've made a few sandwiches for them when asked for food, these always ask for money when you give them the sandwich.  I don't carry money with me when I'm out, I'm usually out walking or jogging.



I wonder if family is more likely to take in women with issues than men? Or sketchy people are?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 29, 2020, 06:46:11 PM
I find nearly ever homeless woman has a homeless fella waiting around the corner to split whatever she can get, as people are more likely to give to a woman than a man.

It's all sad.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 29, 2020, 06:46:29 PM
Beer is carbs.
I don't eat many carbs
I certainly drink my fair share
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 29, 2020, 08:33:29 PM
watching baseball....

Rays game was good

Yanks  up 4 in the 4th
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 30, 2020, 09:45:17 AM
Well today is my oldest's 13th birthday.  I now have a teenage girl in the house.

She's a great kid, and I don't anticipate too many issues, but yeah... she's still a teenager, so...

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 30, 2020, 09:50:00 AM
Congrats, stay close.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 30, 2020, 10:07:32 AM
Congrats, stay close.
Words of wisdom.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on September 30, 2020, 10:08:11 AM
Thanks CD.  I know that teens start wanting and needing to assert their independence, she already does that a lot and it's fine.

But we still do a ton of stuff as a family, she loves camping and she also loves a lot of the same goofy stuff I always did-- she's an avid reader and has gone through my entire fantasy/sci fi library from when I was a kid, she loves 80s music and still seems astounded that I know every song she can throw at me, and she even plays French horn, just as I did.  That was her choice, I actually urged her to pick a more versatile/practical instrument like trumpet or alto sax.

So I manage to stay in touch with her emotionally, for the most part.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 30, 2020, 10:45:14 AM
Well today is my oldest's 13th birthday.  I now have a teenage girl in the house.

She's a great kid, and I don't anticipate too many issues, but yeah... she's still a teenager, so...


Best years ever!   Your great bond you already have will grow even more.   
I always felt the biggest challenge was the company they keep- so involving in that without micromanaging was key.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 30, 2020, 10:48:52 AM
Best years ever!  Your great bond you already have will grow even more. 
HAH!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 30, 2020, 11:31:33 AM
Since we are discussing food-let’s turn this thread to “ meaty”!

What have I done this day/week/month to help make this world better?  ( the concept is not to brag, rather to share ideas they might inspire others)

So I became aware of a group near me called Project lift. They work with troubled young people who have had challenges with crime and drugs. They teach them a vocation such as auto mechanic for example.

They have a great program where you can actually donate the exact amount of money to completely repair a beat up car so that it can be given to a family that needs help with transportation, and the people working on the vehicle are some of these troubled youth.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g1xMjjN50gM

Since I loved the concept and want to make this world a better place I selected one vehicle and donated all of the money to completely repair it from top to bottom to give to a family. It’s awesome because they give you an exact dollar estimate and complete detailed breakdown of every repair the car needs.

I have something in the works for October as well but I will wait to share. What say all of you who are so passionate about our world?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 30, 2020, 11:39:45 AM
very nice

my daughter's 2010 Chevy Malibu might get this treatment

it's in the shop now, checking to see if it's worth repairing
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 30, 2020, 11:42:12 AM
What say all of you who are so passionate about our world?
I maintain the passion for education, and will continue with that as I grow older. We just had a classroom named after us at the (formerly) local college we support. Our scholarship recipients alternate yearly between engineering and nursing. Meaningful degrees, for sure, and desperately needed.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 30, 2020, 11:43:57 AM
Well today is my oldest's 13th birthday.  I now have a teenage girl in the house.

She's a great kid, and I don't anticipate too many issues, but yeah... she's still a teenager, so...
My oldest [boy] turned 13 on 8/8. Now I fear moving to Round Rock to be your neighbor lol...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on September 30, 2020, 12:00:05 PM
A small thing I do is speak to people, or wave, or nod.  The wife and I were just out for a run/walk.  There was one shorter black guy around my age just killing it running.  As he passed me I said "nice job" and he smiled and waved.  Other folks we wave at if they look up, or complement their dog, or something.  Most folks are friendly, and I think it brightens their day a bit, and mine as well.

I always speak to the folks at Kroger, many of them know me now.

I also made a sizeable donation to our scholarship fund, and they responded back exactly zero, nada.  They had staffing turnover and the new staff is apparently just nonresponsive.

I'm going to write the principal I think.  I may start a small scholarship at the local HS.  Maybe one day they will name a room after me.  Ha.

P.S. I don't mean for that to sound glib, it's a great thing Badge and his wife are doing, really.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 30, 2020, 12:19:48 PM
I maintain the passion for education, and will continue with that as I grow older. We just had a classroom named after us at the (formerly) local college we support. Our scholarship recipients alternate yearly between engineering and nursing. Meaningful degrees, for sure, and desperately needed.
Huge!!  That’s not achieved by short term contributions.  You reach that level by long term consistency!  Well done Sir and Mrs. 847
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 30, 2020, 12:29:43 PM
Thanks. We are very proud of this.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on September 30, 2020, 12:37:14 PM
A small thing I do is speak to people, or wave, or nod.  The wife and I were just out for a run/walk.  There was one shorter black guy around my age just killing it running.  As he passed me I said "nice job" and he smiled and waved.  Other folks we wave at if they look up, or complement their dog, or something.  Most folks are friendly, and I think it brightens their day a bit, and mine as well.

I always speak to the folks at Kroger, many of them know me now.

I try to bring more positive energy and feelings to the world and less negative energy and feelings.

Even at work.... hah

I hope it brightens someone's day to an extent.  I hope they may realize it and pass it forward.
If nothing else it seems to brighten my day a bit.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 01, 2020, 10:54:23 AM
From Tom Shatel........................

Here’s something else to chew on: Morning Consult, a global data intelligence company, released eye-opening information this week.

The data studied Generation Z, those born between 1997 and 2012. It said members of Generation Z were less likely to identify as sports fans, half as likely as millennials to watch live sports regularly and twice as likely to never watch.

What that could mean is there’s a generation — perhaps those kids in your house locked onto their phones — that may not take the baton of being the next sports consumers.

If so, that will impact the money from future TV contracts and attendance at all sorts of games. Including college football.

Including Nebraska football.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 01, 2020, 10:57:09 AM
From Tom Shatel........................

Here’s something else to chew on: Morning Consult, a global data intelligence company, released eye-opening information this week.

The data studied Generation Z, those born between 1997 and 2012. It said members of Generation Z were less likely to identify as sports fans, half as likely as millennials to watch live sports regularly and twice as likely to never watch.

What that could mean is there’s a generation — perhaps those kids in your house locked onto their phones — that may not take the baton of being the next sports consumers.

If so, that will impact the money from future TV contracts and attendance at all sorts of games. Including college football.

Including Nebraska football.


Well, sure.

Looks like the mediots are catching up to what we've been saying for over a decade now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2020, 10:59:40 AM
This is news how?

I echo UTee. We broke this scoop 15+ years ago.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 01, 2020, 11:03:46 AM
This is news how?
It's news to me because it just showed up on my cell phone.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 01, 2020, 11:06:42 AM
It's a combination of a lot of things.  GenY and GenZ being attached to phones instead of humans is only part of it.  

The sport could have salvaged at least some of this a decade ago, but they were all too happy to sell out their sport by increasing ticket prices and parking prices and required donation levels to the point that the average family of four was completely priced out.  Even if you WANTED to drag your young kids out of the houses, off their phones, to experience a ballgame, it simply wasn't affordable for the majority of people.  And if parents aren't taking kids to games, then new fans are not being cultivated.

That plus, selling out the gameday experience with Jumbotron ads and loud music, sterilized the atmosphere and destroyed its uniqueness.  I love my college and my team, but even I don't want to put up with that stuff, and so I dropped by season tickets and stopped going to all but a handful of games.

And it's not like I'm the old man yelling at clouds, it's not like I'm in the minority.  The proof is in the pudding-- attendance levels have been declining across most college football teams, for the past decade. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 01, 2020, 11:09:05 AM
It reminds me of a company having a good product, it sells, folks like it, you have good market share, and then a marketer decides it needs a different perfume.

Or New Coke.  Remember that one?

It did end up cementing old Coke though.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 01, 2020, 11:16:36 AM
someone got paid to do a poll or survey

fortunately, the results were as expected and of no serious note
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2020, 12:23:34 PM
Someone start a petition. They work.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 01, 2020, 12:29:47 PM
It's a combination of a lot of things.  GenY and GenZ being attached to phones instead of humans is only part of it. 

  Even if you WANTED to drag your young kids out of the houses, off their phones, to experience a ballgame, it simply wasn't affordable for the majority of people.  And if parents aren't taking kids to games, then new fans are not being cultivated.

That plus, selling out the gameday experience with Jumbotron ads and loud music, sterilized the atmosphere and destroyed its uniqueness.  I love my college and my team, but even I don't want to put up with that stuff, and so I dropped by season tickets and stopped going to all but a handful of games.

This should be made into a chain letter - well done 94 - you get a Yuengling.And letter sent to CFB ADs,NFL,MLB,NBA & NHL HQs.Even though you are an elderly codger yelling at the clouds while enjoying a Celis.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 01, 2020, 12:32:30 PM
It reminds me of a company having a good product, it sells, folks like it, you have good market share, and then a marketer decides it needs a different perfume.

Or New Coke.  Remember that one?

It did end up cementing old Coke though.
I liked the Old Gennessee but some greedy knob 3 decades back decided to water down the recipe
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 01, 2020, 12:39:09 PM

They work with troubled young people who have had challenges with crime and drugs. They teach them a vocation such as auto mechanic for example.
You actually have to have talent & intelligence for that but if you want to break them easy try politics or finance 😎
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 01, 2020, 12:42:11 PM
My oldest [boy] turned 13 on 8/8. Now I fear moving to Round Rock to be your neighbor lol...
Wait'll Fearless gets there it will be a real mess,no BBQ/Beer will be safe,you & 94 have been warned
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 01, 2020, 07:13:29 PM
You actually have to have talent & intelligence for that but if you want to break them easy try politics or finance 😎
Mean man.    😂
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 01, 2020, 07:26:20 PM
You actually have to have talent & intelligence for that but if you want to break them easy try politics or finance 😎
Politics and finance take intelligence. They just select against ethics. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 02, 2020, 10:17:35 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/jommnKI.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/13SFY1N.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/nDXhbjn.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/rxpzYi8.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/IrQHmIj.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/5hCbvFb.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/y3MubzB.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 02, 2020, 11:04:48 AM


You know it's bad when the Hoosiers are showing more swag than the Huskers. 

Speaking to the media this week, Penix, who battled injuries a year ago and missed out on all three contests against the Big Ten East powerhouses, answered a question about the chance to face the Nittany Lions, Wolverines and Buckeyes in 2020. His answer showed the confidence those in Bloomington will appreciate from the redshirt sophomore.

“We’re definitely going to come out and dominate,” Penix said. “I feel like we’re going to do good, the team is definitely ready for these big games. And I feel like we’re going to shock the world. I know we are.”


Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 02, 2020, 11:09:42 AM
well, I was at the Hoosier game in Lincoln last fall

they earned it

not sure they are ready for the Buck Nuts
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 02, 2020, 11:28:41 AM
Day off today so I thought I'd hit the executive course to practice for tomorrow. As a single I played 4 holes in about 25 minutes (+2) but now I've caught the old fogey groups in front. About to slow way down.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 02, 2020, 11:40:56 AM
Let's Go, While we're Young!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 02, 2020, 11:48:51 AM
"Titlist,ya it's mine"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 02, 2020, 12:36:16 PM
Regusci is running a nice sale on their rose' if anyone is interested.

Ask for Clay.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 02, 2020, 01:00:33 PM
is Clay on Silverado Trail in Napa, CA?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 02, 2020, 01:09:04 PM
Yup, I just spoke with him.  I am a fan of wines from the Stag's Leap AVA.

I used to buy Steltzner wines a lot, he sold his property, good for him.

Regusci of course is better known for some remarkable cabs.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on October 02, 2020, 01:59:08 PM
Day off today so I thought I'd hit the executive course to practice for tomorrow. As a single I played 4 holes in about 25 minutes (+2) but now I've caught the old fogey groups in front. About to slow way down.
When I played as a single I wound skip around when I encountered groups.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 02, 2020, 02:06:33 PM
When I played as a single I wound skip around when I encountered groups.
It actually didn't go as slowly as I feared. I joined the pair in front of me on the 9th because they were still sitting on the tee waiting for the fairway to clear when I walked up. Finished 5 over. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 02, 2020, 02:16:20 PM
5 over is solid

putter must have been working
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 02, 2020, 02:44:35 PM
5 over is solid

putter must have been working
The opposite. I hit 6 GIR and 3 of those were bogeys due to 3-putts. I only 1-putted one hole, but that was important as it was a par save.

Bear in mind this is an 1115 yard par 29 course... 6 holes are sand wedge or lob wedge off the tee... 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 02, 2020, 03:01:06 PM
Yeah, if someone doesn't invite me to play through, I'll just skip a few holes in order to get ahead of them, then come back and play the ones that I skipped at the end. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 02, 2020, 03:03:48 PM
just play all the down wind holes twice  ;)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 02, 2020, 08:35:00 PM
just play all the down wind holes twice  ;)


Not if I am downwind from you ripping those "macroswill" farts. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 02, 2020, 08:40:22 PM
FORE!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 03, 2020, 09:23:58 AM
Another spectacular day here, a bit chilly this AM.  I can love Fall again.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 03, 2020, 09:34:14 AM
45 degrees cloudy and damp

rain overnight

little wind

going to the golf course

it won't be this nice in a month
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 03, 2020, 09:38:47 AM
Bright sunshine here, no clouds, 73°F already.

I suppose this is one reason ATL is growing so fast, that an air conditioning.

If we did not have practical AC, a lot of things would be different.  It's interesting to inquire of the normal personage how they think AC works.

"Well, the Freon is cold that they use, and after a while it gets warmed up, and they have to add more cold Freon."

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 03, 2020, 09:51:55 AM
This stuff works. Made pretty close to here, in Sanibel.

(https://i.imgur.com/mA4YAHV.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 03, 2020, 10:16:44 AM
I looked it up, I couldn't find a list of ingredients, and they are fracturing FIFRA regulations.  Highly toxic my fundament.

DEET (N,N-diethyl-m-toluamide) is a highly toxic chemical found in most bug repellents. When ingested, it may affect the central nervous system. It can cause skin irritation in sensitive persons. High concentrations applied to the skin can cause blistering, followed by severe scarring. DEET has also been implicated in seizures among children.

Our natural ingredients are safe, gentle and effective and are not harmful to humans, pets or the environment. Our formula works on insects without harming or killing them. Biting insects follow the scent of carbon dioxide gas and our skin and breath naturally give off this gas. Our product has a distinctive, but very pleasant, odor which makes it difficult for pesky insects to locate the carbon dioxide released from our bodies.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 03, 2020, 10:21:39 AM
No DEET.




Ingredients
Active: lemongrass oil 3%, citronella oil 3%, geranium oil 1%. Inactive: RO Water 93%



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 03, 2020, 11:56:47 AM
Bright sunshine here, no clouds, 73°F already.

I suppose this is one reason ATL is growing so fast, that an air conditioning.

If we did not have practical AC, a lot of things would be different.  It's interesting to inquire of the normal personage how they think AC works.

"Well, the Freon is cold that they use, and after a while it gets warmed up, and they have to add more cold Freon."


To be honest, I don't know how AC works. 

I do know that's not it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 03, 2020, 11:58:58 AM
45 degrees cloudy and damp

rain overnight

little wind

going to the golf course

it won't be this nice in a month
High of 84 in Huntington Beach, where I'll be playing today.

Bringing some waters... And some IPAs. 

Might even pull the driver out of the bag today if I'm hitting well. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 03, 2020, 02:10:16 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/xlLPiiG.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 03, 2020, 07:22:54 PM
Oof. +32 on 18 today. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 03, 2020, 08:40:57 PM
golf is tough

I shot a good front 9 - 42, but tough back, 44 = 86

no wind helped but temps in the 40s didn't allow the ball to fly as far as usual 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 04, 2020, 09:39:21 AM
golf is tough

I shot a good front 9 - 42, but tough back, 44 = 86

no wind helped but temps in the 40s didn't allow the ball to fly as far as usual
Now is that 86 from the tips or the sissy tees?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 05, 2020, 10:50:58 AM
hah, the tips are 7,085 yards, I don't play them much since turning 57 a year ago.  Not so much me as the other guys in my group.

6800 yards from the tees we play.  Not for sissies.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 05, 2020, 12:03:13 PM
hah, the tips are 7,085 yards, I don't play them much since turning 57 a year ago.  Not so much me as the other guys in my group.

6800 yards from the tees we play.  Not for sissies.
I used to play with the Houston Amateur Golf Assoc and we played everything from the tips

while my handicap suffered when Id play with friends from the white tees I felt like I was on a chip and putt course

golf is such a mental game
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on October 05, 2020, 12:16:16 PM
The problem w tips golf becomes one of pace.  When a higher handicap player is always waiting for the green to clear before attempting to hit the green from 200+ w their rescue.   BS.

Optically, I can deal w guys waiting w a middle short iron in hand.  Not the guy who expects to pure a rescue and have it dribble onto the green from 225.  He's chunking that shot 4/5.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 05, 2020, 12:27:43 PM
One of the main differences between high handicap and low handicap players is what they do when they hit the ball in trouble like the woods

a low handicap player just wants to get the ball back into the fairway and maybe only lose 1 stroke

a high handicap player is going to try and hit a career shot and make it to the green

Jack Nicklaus once said you hit a bad shot to get in there what makes you think youre gonna hit a great shot to get out

I lived by that rule and it saved my bacon many times
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 05, 2020, 01:14:13 PM
https://www.pgavillage.com/Default.aspx?p=DynamicModule&pageid=15&ssid=100030&vnf=1

Shot a smooth 79 here last week.  Needed, and got, a birdie on the last hole to do it.  Play from the standard tees (6100). “ a mans got to know his limitations “ especially a 59 yr old.  

My scores really improved this year. Was usually in 86-87 range but this year more often 78-82.  Keep it in the fairway, miss the green in the right spot, and have a solid short game.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 05, 2020, 01:16:35 PM
breaking 80 is always  a very good thing, especially Wannamaker 131 slope rating

that's some solid golf regardless of tees

I play the white tees once in a while with older players, probably about 6200 yards.  Usually don't score any better than playing 6800 yards or 7000 yards.

it's the strokes on and around the greens that aren't going away.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2020, 01:22:29 PM
The few times I would hit a green in reg, I'd three putt, or worse.  I don't play any more.  Messes up my swing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 05, 2020, 01:23:44 PM
golf is a great game, until you start putting
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2020, 01:39:25 PM
I live on a golf course. It's as close as I'll get to one.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on October 05, 2020, 01:43:01 PM
That's imo opinion the best part of attending a tour event.  It's pointless to follow leaders and I hate staking out a green.  I love hanging out where the misses are off the tee off the fairway.   That's where you see just how good these guys are.   They are so creative when in trouble.    Love it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 05, 2020, 01:49:32 PM
I live on a golf course. It's as close as I'll get to one.
I mean, that's pretty close. And I assume you can go walk around the course, which is the second-closest one can be. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2020, 02:14:12 PM
I don't know if they let us walk the course. I probably would not, with all the damn no see um bugs around here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 05, 2020, 02:28:47 PM

So you get all of the problems associated with living next to a golf course, but none of the benefits? 

Bummer. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 05, 2020, 02:29:33 PM
I live on a golf course. It's as close as I'll get to one.
that's my dream retirement spot
almost as dreamy as being Utee's neighbor
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 05, 2020, 02:30:09 PM
So you get all of the problems associated with living next to a golf course, but none of the benefits?

Bummer.
what problems?

hey, ya never have to buy another golf ball
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 05, 2020, 02:46:06 PM
For golf, I pretty much need to work on...

...just about everything.

I've been reasonably happy with my wedge and pitching game. That's at least consistently average. Everything else is just inconsistent.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 05, 2020, 02:51:06 PM
that's just about every golfer

if one weakness goes away, another pops up

I played in a 5-man scramble on Sunday.

Everyone's driver was working pretty, nothing else
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on October 05, 2020, 02:52:23 PM
My golf game stinks, sucks, is terrible, but it gets me out of the house. 

One of these days maybe I will take lessons to get a consistent swing and distance with my clubs. Till then it is a good excuse to drink beer.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 05, 2020, 03:01:10 PM
what problems?

hey, ya never have to buy another golf ball
Golf balls hitting the house. Golf balls hitting your car. Golf balls landing in your pool. Golfers retrieving golf balls from your yard. Golfers draining the lizard on your bushes. And so forth.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2020, 03:05:07 PM
So you get all of the problems associated with living next to a golf course, but none of the benefits?

Bummer.
We are at a Tee, so we'll never get hit. I haven't seen one ball come near me in the few months we've spent here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 05, 2020, 03:08:26 PM
that's just about every golfer

if one weakness goes away, another pops up
Consistent range time is what I need.

And probably to start doing a lot more stretching exercises. Strange how the 22-year-old who was fit for my clubs only a few years after having spending 7 years doing martial arts was a lot more flexible than the 42-year-old swinging them now!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 05, 2020, 03:08:50 PM
We are at a Tee, so we'll never get hit. I haven't seen one ball come near me in the few months we've spent here.
Just wait until I play the course :57:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2020, 03:25:55 PM
If you hit backwards.. I'm screwed.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on October 05, 2020, 03:44:32 PM
I'd go crazy w the mowers all the time. And then ever listen to a guy change a hole location in the morning? If they are doing correctly   Its loud and happens before I'm awake.   
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 05, 2020, 03:58:01 PM
My golf game stinks, sucks, is terrible, but it gets me out of the house.

One of these days maybe I will take lessons to get a consistent swing and distance with my clubs. Till then it is a good excuse to drink beer.
this........ exactly

except I've never had a lesson and probably never take one

that's almost like cheating
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 05, 2020, 03:59:52 PM
Golf balls hitting the house. Golf balls hitting your car. Golf balls landing in your pool. Golfers retrieving golf balls from your yard. Golfers draining the lizard on your bushes. And so forth.
park the car in the garage, no pool, a tall fence with a gate to allow access for my golf cart, I don't see a problem....... bushes like to be watered
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 05, 2020, 04:00:30 PM
I once had a drive to backwards in disc golf.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 05, 2020, 04:05:20 PM
park the car in the garage, no pool, a tall fence with a gate to allow access for my golf cart, I don't see a problem....... bushes like to be watered
Even so, free golf balls is of no benefit to him if he doesn't golf. Unless of course he wants to open a business that sells used golf balls. And if that is the case, there are much more cost effective ways of obtaining them than purchasing golf course adjacent property parcels.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on October 05, 2020, 04:08:36 PM
Do you guys still carry long irons.  I admit, I'm still limber and carry and hit a 2, 3 and 4 iron, but increasingly I see guys using several rescue clubs throughout the round.   Im guessing at some point I won't have that flexibility and torque for many more years.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 05, 2020, 04:10:15 PM
I once had a drive to backwards in disc golf.
Ugh. Disc "golf". 

When I see friends saying "I shot -11 today on the course" I do a double-take until I realize they're playing a sport that doesn't understand that "par" means excellence and therefore the disc golf scoring system is just PoA. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 05, 2020, 04:20:06 PM
park the car in the garage, no pool, a tall fence with a gate to allow access for my golf cart, I don't see a problem....... bushes like to be watered
You don't have a 3 car garage with room for your golf cart?

Err... Better question. Considering how much you play golf you prioritizing keeping your car in the garage and leaving your golf cart exposed to the elements?

Do you guys still carry long irons.  I admit, I'm still limber and carry and hit a 2, 3 and 4 iron, but increasingly I see guys using several rescue clubs throughout the round.  Im guessing at some point I won't have that flexibility and torque for many more years.
I carry [and hit] down to the 3 iron. I'm still able to get enough clubhead speed to get it up in the air. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 05, 2020, 04:39:58 PM
Ugh. Disc "golf".

When I see friends saying "I shot -11 today on the course" I do a double-take until I realize they're playing a sport that doesn't understand that "par" means excellence and therefore the disc golf scoring system is just PoA.
Those that take it way too seriously play every hole as a part 3. So an 11 under by that metric would be insane. But if instead they are going by the par that the course recommends it might not be so hot, if there are a bunch of long, par 4/5 holes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 05, 2020, 04:42:05 PM
I took the 3 and 4 iron out of the bag years ago.  Tough to hit consistently and I hit the 5 iron as far as the 4 iron, about 200 yards.

I carried a 5 wood and 3 wood.  

I tried a couple different hybrids / rescues because they are supposed to be easier to hit well and more forgiving.  Couldn't make them work.

Went to a 7 wood.  It works.

This summer I got a 3 iron / driving iron from a friend.  This is for shots I need to keep low.  The 7 wood gets too much loft for some shots.

Punching a low shot out of trouble and under trees has always been tough for me.  the 3 iron helps.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on October 05, 2020, 04:43:21 PM
I think I was at least 30 before I found out that people played disc golf "seriously".  I assumed it was just an excuse to go smoke pot in the woods.

Granted golf is just an excuse to go drink beer for 4 hours
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 05, 2020, 04:43:36 PM
You don't have a 3 car garage with room for your golf cart?

Err... Better question. Considering how much you play golf you prioritizing keeping your car in the garage and leaving your golf cart exposed to the elements?
I carry [and hit] down to the 3 iron. I'm still able to get enough clubhead speed to get it up in the air.
sorry, my golf cart is always parked inside.

the gate in the fence is just for access to and from the course
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 05, 2020, 04:50:20 PM
Granted golf is just an excuse to go drink beer for 4 hours
Why do you sound judgy when you say that?
sorry, my golf cart is always parked inside.

the gate in the fence is just for access to and from the course
Ahh, now I understand. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 05, 2020, 04:56:50 PM
I think I was at least 30 before I found out that people played disc golf "seriously".  I assumed it was just an excuse to go smoke pot in the woods.

Granted golf is just an excuse to go drink beer for 4 hours
But yeah, more seriously, that's my issue with disc golf. It seems like the scoring is designed to make you feel good about yourself. Golf is supposed to be frustrating. It's supposed to be hard. For a duffer like me, a birdie is an event worth seriously celebrating. Heck, on "real" courses (not my little exec course) I'm extremely pleased just to make par. 

I feel like disc golf, as a new sport, wanted to make things easy enough to keep from discouraging new people, which means anyone with moderate ability can destroy a course. Whereas with real golf, moderate ability and a bit of practice means you should aspire to play bogey golf. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on October 05, 2020, 05:17:35 PM
I still do prefer to walk if possible.   I find cart golf leads to more lost or missing balls, as you never approach the ball from the same angle especially when you're cart mate hooked it when you sliced it.  Plus the logistics of staying away from the green.  People forget or lose clubs or you need that lob wedge and you grabbed the gap, while the partner has driven off.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2020, 05:17:52 PM
I'd go crazy w the mowers all the time. And then ever listen to a guy change a hole location in the morning? If they are doing correctly  Its loud and happens before I'm awake. 
No problems with noise. New hurricane/UV windows (4 pane) negated any of that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 05, 2020, 05:19:46 PM
But yeah, more seriously, that's my issue with disc golf. It seems like the scoring is designed to make you feel good about yourself. Golf is supposed to be frustrating. It's supposed to be hard. For a duffer like me, a birdie is an event worth seriously celebrating. Heck, on "real" courses (not my little exec course) I'm extremely pleased just to make par.

I feel like disc golf, as a new sport, wanted to make things easy enough to keep from discouraging new people, which means anyone with moderate ability can destroy a course. Whereas with real golf, moderate ability and a bit of practice means you should aspire to play bogey golf.
The courses vary wildly in difficulty. On some courses shooting par would be insane. On others, not so much.
Around here they range from being crammed into a grassy, public park to vast desert landscapes with hills and gorges and cliffs and gigantic rock formations.

If you shoot par in the grassy park, you suck and need to just quit playing. If you can shoot par in the open desert, you are phenomenal and need to start playing for money.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2020, 05:20:22 PM
If I'm going to hit a white ball, there's gonna be someone throwing it to me and then catching it (or not, if I hit big) and throwing it back.

Seriously. I don't get the passion for the thing at all.

Of course, I'm a boater.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on October 05, 2020, 05:20:31 PM
Thats right, sleeping with windows open on a cool night remains a Midwest thing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on October 05, 2020, 05:30:15 PM
Never played disc golf but this summer at a softball tournament I was cooling off in the car between games. It was about 95 degrees with humidity in the millions.  Anyway, we were parked right beside a disc golf course.  I sat there and just watched people play for about 20 minutes.

This one dude comes up to the tee box (whatever it’s called) and threw a frisbee about 125 yards.  It played slightly downhill which I know helped a little but he zung the hell out of that  thing.  He threw it within 6 feet of the cage. I sat there and watched about 12 other people make that throw and no one came within 50 yards of where his landed.  It was actually really impressive.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 05, 2020, 05:41:05 PM
I still do prefer to walk if possible.  I find cart golf leads to more lost or missing balls, as you never approach the ball from the same angle especially when you're cart mate hooked it when you sliced it.  Plus the logistics of staying away from the green.  People forget or lose clubs or you need that lob wedge and you grabbed the gap, while the partner has driven off.
Years back, I was in the cart almost constantly so I ditched the walking stand bag for a traditional bag. But I'm like you; I enjoy walking the course. And I don't think it's even slower, for some of the reasons you mention (having to walk to/from the cart to the fairway or green, having to coordinate two players from a single cart, etc). 

So prior to my last round I ordered a pull cart. Because I like walking; I don't want to carry. 

Only problem is that to fit my soft-sided cooler with beers and ice packs into the only pocket on the bag capable of fitting it, I have to turn my bag sideways on the pull cart. #firstworldproblems

I did just receive a cupholder for the pull cart which I didn't have on Saturday, which will help...  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 05, 2020, 05:50:26 PM
If I'm going to hit a white ball, there's gonna be someone throwing it to me and then catching it (or not, if I hit big) and throwing it back.

Seriously. I don't get the passion for the thing at all.

Of course, I'm a boater.


Just think of it as playing fetch, only without the dog. O0
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 05, 2020, 06:38:22 PM
I still do prefer to walk if possible.  I find cart golf leads to more lost or missing balls, as you never approach the ball from the same angle especially when you're cart mate hooked it when you sliced it.  Plus the logistics of staying away from the green.  People forget or lose clubs or you need that lob wedge and you grabbed the gap, while the partner has driven off.
don't worry, you'll get more experience as you get older
carts are the way to go
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on October 06, 2020, 02:42:16 PM
Years back, I was in the cart almost constantly so I ditched the walking stand bag for a traditional bag. But I'm like you; I enjoy walking the course. And I don't think it's even slower, for some of the reasons you mention (having to walk to/from the cart to the fairway or green, having to coordinate two players from a single cart, etc).

So prior to my last round I ordered a pull cart. Because I like walking; I don't want to carry.

Only problem is that to fit my soft-sided cooler with beers and ice packs into the only pocket on the bag capable of fitting it, I have to turn my bag sideways on the pull cart. #firstworldproblems

I did just receive a cupholder for the pull cart which I didn't have on Saturday, which will help... 

You need to get a new bag. My bag has a cooler built into it. Put one of those ice substitute in it and it will still hold at least a six pack
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 06, 2020, 03:56:57 PM
six per 9 holes should be plenty for most

slam 2 quick ones at the turn and put on another sixer
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 06, 2020, 04:01:00 PM
If I'm going to hit a white ball, there's gonna be someone throwing it to me and then catching it (or not, if I hit big) and throwing it back.

Seriously. I don't get the passion for the thing at all.

Of course, I'm a boater.
Golf is a game that youre either passionnant about and play every chance you get or you dont care for at all

very few play every now and then if they play at all
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 06, 2020, 04:04:18 PM
I know way too many that play 2 or 3 times a year

almost always in a scramble event that is more about a fundraiser or a drinking event

they are doing the right thing in their hearts, but man, do they slow things down!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on October 06, 2020, 04:58:01 PM
I didn’t pick up golf until I was in my 20s.  Until then, I was like Badge. I didn’t see the draw of it.  But there is something about hitting that one great shot that brings you back.

You keep thinking with enough practice you can replicate that shot to where it is the norm and not the exception.  I was really into playing for a while but when my daughter was born it became harder to justify leaving my wife home to take care of the baby while I went out and played
golf for 3-4 hours. The two or three guys I played with were pretty unreliable too. We’d have a day set up to play and they would back out at the last minute for weak reasons (it was really just their wives not wanting them to play).

I ended up playing by myself a lot, which was ok for a while but started to get old.  I played a grand total of 9 holes last year and haven’t touched a club this year. In fact, not too long ago I moved the clubs out of my garage into storage.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 06, 2020, 05:24:15 PM
I started playing in my 20s while at college in Lincoln

was a better option than going to class quite a few days
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on October 06, 2020, 05:33:12 PM
I once played 72-80 holes a week, then I graduated school,  got a job, bought a house,  had kids, built a house.   Now its 72 holes a year if I'm lucky.  Still staying under 90, but my sub 80 rounds are gone, I haven't had an eagle in awhile.  Can't remember the last time I had consecutive birdies.    
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 06, 2020, 06:20:28 PM
Never had an eagle. 

Almost had an eagle and an ace on a par 3 when I was 15, but I'm guessing that the universe just looked at me and said "you don't deserve this, kid, so we're going to stop this ball 12 inches short". 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on October 06, 2020, 06:54:20 PM
Never had an eagle.

Almost had an eagle and an ace on a par 3 when I was 15, but I'm guessing that the universe just looked at me and said "you don't deserve this, kid, so we're going to stop this ball 12 inches short".
My only one was a blind 2nd shot on a par 4.  It was flying so low that I thought I had overshot the green and put it in someone's yard.  Our group was my buddy, his GF, and my GF, golfing for her first time.

She was spotting it, and said, "I think it went in the hole, that's pretty cool.". It was the second hole of golf she had ever played, and the moment was totally lost on her. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on October 06, 2020, 07:48:24 PM
Had one eagle. It was on a Par 5 from the 150 marker.  I was playing 9 holes by myself and couldn’t believe it. I also couldn’t believe no one was there to witness it.  A couple guys up on the patio drinking beer saw it and started yelling and clapping, though.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 06, 2020, 08:40:33 PM
so, ya had witnesses
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 06, 2020, 08:54:05 PM
I started playing in my 20s while at college in Lincoln

was a better option than going to class quite a few days
Wouldn't want you to get any class for sure,you're acceptable as is





Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 06, 2020, 09:02:49 PM
I sure as hell could be worse
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 06, 2020, 09:16:14 PM
Golf is played by 20 million American Men whose wives think they are out having fun - Jim Bishop

They call it Golf because all the other four lettered words were taken - Raymond Floyd

it takes 17 holes to get really warmed up

never wash your ball on the tee of a water hole

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 06, 2020, 09:20:01 PM
I usually have a screaming slice.  I'm left handed (not throwing).  I tend to leave the club face open.  If I relax completely and just hit the ball, I do OK, sometimes with some draw, but any time I hit a good tee shot, the approach is going to slice as I tense up.

Then I hack around in a hazard for 5-6 strikes before getting on the green and then sink an 80 foot put for a quad.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 06, 2020, 09:23:17 PM
Often?You lie like a fisherman
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 06, 2020, 09:58:08 PM
I kinda wish I liked golf. Or was even worth half a crap at it. 

My swing form is actually surprising OK, but I have terrible hand-eye coordination, which means I just hack often. Which is not ideal. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 06, 2020, 10:01:39 PM
(https://www.brainyquote.com/photos_tr/en/h/harryvardon/105409/harryvardon1-2x.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: TyphonInc on October 06, 2020, 10:31:28 PM
Heh, I haven't played golf in 20 years. My roommate was a golf-pro at an Upper Arlington Course so I got to go pretty often for free. I was never any good, but on one particular day I had a wicked slice (I hit right handed and the ball breaks even farther to the right) on my Tee shot for the first nine holes. We take a break and head back out for the 2nd 9; my roommate says to me that I am slicing pretty bad, what I should do is aim at the goose in the lake and that should put it on the fairway. So I am at the goose and smack hit him square in the head, killing it. I lay my club down on the course and proclaim I am done walking off. I ain't been back. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on October 06, 2020, 10:47:13 PM
I spent two summers bartending at a country club in law school, and we could use the course for free on Mondays, when it was closed for maintenance.  We had nothing else to do those days, so we would frequently just play 36 holes, on a course we could never have otherwise afforded to get into. Playing regularly is the key, between that and going out once or twice a week to public courses, I actually got okay. I could never drive the ball though. I had to sacrifice so much distance to avoid a wicked slice. My short game was outstanding, and my putting was probably above average
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 06, 2020, 11:21:24 PM
my cart partner Jack hit a ball in the pond with his driver on the #11 tee box, dropped a couple club lengths from the pond, smoked a low thin 5 iron and hit a goose in the head, knocking the goose into the pond, killed the goose.

We had to quit, didn't finish.  The canadian geese are considered varmints on the course.  I thought the killing of the varmint was a good thing, but Jack had a big soft heart and couldn't continue.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on October 06, 2020, 11:23:46 PM
My only hole in one occurred while playing with my now wife.   What a buzz kill.  So many close calls with the buddies and I get the ace w her.  She assumed this had happened before, much like ELAs experience.    Nobody to taunt and gloat over.  Oddly, I don't think I would place that shot anywhere close to the best 50 golf shots of my life.  If it were some ridiculous carry or a long iron 200 yard par 3, but this was a pretty simple 100 yard gap wedge two bounce in the cup shot on a flat no hazard dog track of a course.  Feel like an ass complaining about it, but if you play a fair amount and hit some pretty tough tracks, you really feel underwhelmed by it when it isnt a blistered middle iron over a trap to an elevated green.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 07, 2020, 09:11:53 AM
shouldn't complain about it

well, until you get your 2nd and it's more remarkable
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 07, 2020, 11:01:03 AM
I spent two summers bartending at a country club in law school, and we could use the course for free on Mondays, when it was closed for maintenance.  We had nothing else to do those days, so we would frequently just play 36 holes, on a course we could never have otherwise afforded to get into. Playing regularly is the key, between that and going out once or twice a week to public courses, I actually got okay. I could never drive the ball though. I had to sacrifice so much distance to avoid a wicked slice. My short game was outstanding, and my putting was probably above average
I caddied at Chicago Golf Club when I was 13 for a summer job. We got to play on Mondays as well. Definitely the same; it was a private club and far more rarified society than I'll ever aspire to be. Gorgeous course. 

I had one round where we got stuck at the halfway house on the turn during a thunderstorm. Mike Ditka was there playing that day (not a member, was just a guest) and was also holed up in the halfway house smoking a big fat cigar. I got him to autograph my yardage book. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 07, 2020, 11:56:32 AM
When I was 9, I allowed cars to park in our front yard for a quarter so folks could walk to the Master's.  We lived about three blocks away.  Then we moved.

That was a lot of money for me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on October 07, 2020, 12:31:09 PM
My only hole in one occurred while playing with my now wife.  What a buzz kill.  So many close calls with the buddies and I get the ace w her.  She assumed this had happened before, much like ELAs experience.    Nobody to taunt and gloat over.  Oddly, I don't think I would place that shot anywhere close to the best 50 golf shots of my life.  If it were some ridiculous carry or a long iron 200 yard par 3, but this was a pretty simple 100 yard gap wedge two bounce in the cup shot on a flat no hazard dog track of a course.  Feel like an ass complaining about it, but if you play a fair amount and hit some pretty tough tracks, you really feel underwhelmed by it when it isnt a blistered middle iron over a trap to an elevated green.
Holes in one are fluky.  Based more on luck than skill.  SI did a great article one time on HIO’s.  One story involved a barber who had never played before. One afternoon a couple of guys convinced him to just ride around on the cart and drink with them while they played.  A couple holes in they convinced him to take a swing.  He steps up to a little Par 3 and holes it out.  Never swung a club again. He said he knew it would all be down hill from there.

When I worked at a CC this old fella finishes his around and his buddy says “drinks are on Bob, he aced Number 15.”  I congratulated him and asked if that was first HIO. He tells me it’s his sixth.  There are PGA Tour professionals who don’t have six HIO’s.  This guy was a 25 handicap duffer and he had six.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 07, 2020, 12:31:48 PM
Last year playing with my normal foursome, we were playing a par 4 with an elevated green. I had a pretty good drive and was laying about 150 out. We noticed that the flag stick was not standing in the hold, but laying on the green. I was already standing by my ball and decided to go ahead and hit as I hadn't been playing well anyway and thought I would be lucky to get anywhere near the hole anyway. At the same time, the other 2 in our foursome, drove up to the green side to place the flag stick in the hole. And just to put a finish on a bad round and to make it a perfectly bad day, I hit a nine iron that hit 2 ft right of the hole, took a right turn and hit the bottom of the flag stick, keeping it out of the hole.  That pretty much sums up my luck. I took a tap in birdie on what should have been an eagle. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 07, 2020, 12:34:09 PM
still searching for my first hole in one

obviously had plenty of opportunities

been within a foot of the cup about a dozen times

been within 3 inches 5 or 6 times

I'll keep trying.

and I'll happily buy the round of drinks if it ever happens
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 07, 2020, 12:38:14 PM
Holes in one are fluky.  Based more on luck than skill.  SI did a great article one time on HIO’s.  One story involved a barber who had never played before. One afternoon a couple of guys convinced him to just ride around on the cart and drink with them while they played.  A couple holes in they convinced him to take a swing.  He steps up to a little Par 3 and holes it out.  Never swung a club again. He said he knew it would all be down hill from there.

When I worked at a CC this old fella finishes his around and his buddy says “drinks are on Bob, he aced Number 15.”  I congratulated him and asked if that was first HIO. He tells me it’s his sixth.  There are PGA Tour professionals who don’t have six HIO’s.  This guy was a 25 handicap duffer and he had six.
Years ago, I played in a Wednesday night golf league that consisted of people from work. The course was a little nine hole course that had some difficult holes, but generally pretty easy. Number 7 was a 140 yard par 3 where there was a slight rise in the "fairway" to where you could see the flag stick, but not the green. My opponent that afternoon was an elderly man that had worked there for 40 years. He hit a worm burner that scooted over the little rise and appeared to be going fast enough that it would continue across the green and into the pine trees that lined the back of the green. He was cussing the shot the entire time until we got the green and began looking for it. Everyone was looking in the tree line as the grass was fairly tall in that area and would make finding a ball fairly difficult. We looked and looked and could not find it. He was about to head back to the tee to hit again when I decided to walk past the cup just to take a look. Sure enough, he holed it out. When we got back to the clubhouse, he was reliving his HIO to anyone that would listen. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 07, 2020, 12:39:56 PM
still searching for my first hole in one

obviously had plenty of opportunities

been within a foot of the cup about a dozen times

been within 3 inches 5 or 6 times

I'll keep trying.

and I'll happily buy the round of drinks if it ever happens
I'm with you. The closest I ever came was the ball coming to rest about 3 inches or so short of the cup. I was playing with my brother in law and he hit next. His ball almost hit mine, coming to rest about 3 or 4 inches on the other side of the cup, his closest to a HIO ever also. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 07, 2020, 12:51:15 PM
I had one hit 6 inches on the far side of the cup and spin back past the cup to 3 inches in front of it.

not sure how it did not go in, had to lip the cup
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: DevilFroggy on October 07, 2020, 12:51:31 PM
I've never swung a golf club anywhere other than mini golf or Top Golf in my life. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 07, 2020, 12:51:38 PM
ACE ALERT: Big John Daly Casually Hits Hole In One While Barefoot!

https://golficity.com/ace-alert-big-john-daly-casually-hits-hole-in-one-while-barefoot/?fbclid=IwAR10BvGwnGlipcbHJhYmW6PK3mDLUKU3BsIoyn8a3meNHS4ljW-fLoWIaFg (https://golficity.com/ace-alert-big-john-daly-casually-hits-hole-in-one-while-barefoot/?fbclid=IwAR10BvGwnGlipcbHJhYmW6PK3mDLUKU3BsIoyn8a3meNHS4ljW-fLoWIaFg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 07, 2020, 12:52:42 PM
I've never swung a golf club anywhere other than mini golf or Top Golf in my life.
smart man

I always tell folks that haven't played.......... golf is like cigarettes, don't start because you might not be able to quit
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 07, 2020, 01:01:52 PM
I had one hit 6 inches on the far side of the cup and spin back past the cup to 3 inches in front of it.
Difference between an "EW" and an "AH"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on October 07, 2020, 01:09:20 PM
In Japan serious golfers buy HIO insurance as if you get one, it is custom to buy your golfing mates a gift 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 07, 2020, 01:12:08 PM
In Japan serious golfers buy HIO insurance as if you get one, it is custom to buy your golfing mates a gift
I've read where a golfer in Japan just missing a HIO is congratulated by those is in group as making one can cost into the thousands of dollars (or hundreds of thousands of Yen).  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 07, 2020, 02:03:40 PM
the day I hit the one that landed past the hole and finished in front of the hole a good friend of mine holed out in the next group on that par 3.

we were part of a large group, maybe 5 or 6 foursomes.  He handed the bartender this credit card........ bartender started telling everyone in the clubhouse there was a HIO and free drinks.  Swanky country club, women were ordering expensive glasses of wine and men were calling for expensive glasses of scotch.

Tab was almost $2K

my buddy was pissed, but paid it.

I got a Budweiser.  Almost glad mine didn't go in.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 07, 2020, 02:07:18 PM
Paid it?Shyt even if I was Besos or Gates I would have lawyered up
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 07, 2020, 02:12:04 PM
I'm going out to the swanky place tomorrow afternoon and Friday

I'd love to be able to pay.

Not that much, but that's one of the few things credit cards are good for
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 07, 2020, 04:37:03 PM
look out Kenosha............

The former Minneapolis officer charged with murder in the death of George Floyd has posted bond and has been released from prison
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 07, 2020, 05:47:09 PM
Glad I'm not there.

Still waiting on the WDOJ report on the Jacob Blake case to come out. That could get ugly, fast.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 07, 2020, 06:08:02 PM
look out Kenosha............

The former Minneapolis officer charged with murder in the death of George Floyd has posted bond and has been released from prison
I don't see it.

He wasn't released from prison. He was released from jail. Big difference. He's still facing the exact same charges that he was facing before, he's just not in a holding cell. 

If he is acquitted, then Minneapolis will probably burn again, in the same way that LA did after the Rodney King officers were acquitted.

But nothing will happen based on him being released on bond.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 07, 2020, 06:30:27 PM
The crowd is a bit different today, and some are looking for any excuse.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2020, 07:49:07 AM
We went out to dinner last night, a place we go fairly often, a fish kind of place called Lure.  Was good.  They had a decent crowd, mostly on the patio.  The weather is conducive, we actually sat inside. We walked over 6 miles yesterday.  The doc gave me clearance on the shoulder, but no throwing yet.

I self published a book on Amazon/Kindle.  I wrote it over a few months (in between posting around here) and tried to proof read it as well as I could.  It's historical fiction, 232 pages, Book One.

We're about to get some rain tomorrow from the hurricane.  The Gulf coast has been hit pretty hard this season, I hope this one weakens of course.  

Da Braves are looking strong, but the Dodgers look fearsome.

We're headed up into the mountains on Monday to visit a cousin and look around.  Staying three nights in hotels, I'll see how they are.  I think the risk is manageable, I hope.  I am less concerned about contact contagion than I was in March.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on October 08, 2020, 08:52:31 AM
the trailer for Fatman is out....

https://twitter.com/CultureCrave/status/1313963835519238144
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 08, 2020, 09:08:15 AM
the trailer for Fatman is out....

https://twitter.com/CultureCrave/status/1313963835519238144
On principle, I probably won't see this out of feelings for Mel. That said, it's a brilliant premise and looks hilarious. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on October 08, 2020, 09:09:37 AM
My first thought is this is going to be comedy...   like a funded version of sharknado.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 08, 2020, 09:58:15 AM
My first thought is this is going to be comedy...  like a funded version of sharknado. 
I feel like maybe closer to John Wick? Like hyper violent, but also so silly that it's cartoonish?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 08, 2020, 10:03:39 AM
I don't see it.


But nothing will happen based on him being released on bond.
hah, you're a reasonable person
the mob is not
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on October 08, 2020, 10:25:07 AM
I feel like maybe closer to John Wick? Like hyper violent, but also so silly that it's cartoonish?
 that comparison is better...  I just wanted to add sharknado to the conversation... heh
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 08, 2020, 10:28:09 AM
that comparison is better...  I just wanted to add sharknado to the conversation... heh

Shoot, Badge lives in Florida now, which I assume is just Sharknado ally. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 08, 2020, 10:30:20 AM
hah, you're a reasonable person
the mob is not
The bail system remains fascinating and problematic. The ins and outs of it produce a lot of strong feelings. I hope if anyone is out there, it's small groups. The kind that don't have quite that bravery of a crowd that can inspire recklessness on both sides of the law. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 08, 2020, 11:01:14 AM
I self published a book on Amazon/Kindle.  I wrote it over a few months (in between posting around here) and tried to proof read it as well as I could.  It's historical fiction, 232 pages, Book One.
Link?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 08, 2020, 11:03:46 AM
Shoot, Badge lives in Florida now, which I assume is just Sharknado ally.
I have no idea what you are talking about.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2020, 05:24:50 PM
Link?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KTN5HJV?fbclid=IwAR2SCWQFBed1Kg68Gqjn04mtbP09HoFy15YHB7IGafUbgDUSgReYBqaqZeg

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 08, 2020, 05:35:27 PM
Ordered.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2020, 05:37:50 PM
Thanks.  Honest criticism is very welcome.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on October 08, 2020, 09:55:26 PM

Ordered.
Same. Don’t hold me to reading it anytime soon, though. I’m ashamed to admit this but I typically only read books when I’m on vacation or have time to kill on a plane.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 08, 2020, 10:04:17 PM
I don't even read books then

I gotta be REALLY bored
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 09, 2020, 06:20:09 AM
I don't read books either, but good luck.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 09, 2020, 06:55:12 AM
I read a lot, am really missing the library (closed since March).  I don't really like reading iPad as much though.  I mostly read history now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 09, 2020, 07:28:44 AM
I have no idea what you are talking about.
Silly, I guess you would call it a monster movie? Involves tornadoes full of sharks. That sounds very Florida to me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 09, 2020, 12:09:14 PM
I don't even read books then

I gotta be REALLY bored
How the fook did you make it out of 1980s Nebraska then?Nevermind don't answer that
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 09, 2020, 12:12:48 PM
Silly, I guess you would call it a monster movie? Involves tornadoes full of sharks. That sounds very Florida to me.
Tornadoes are usually filled with boards,shingles other debris and a witch on a bicycle
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 09, 2020, 12:15:42 PM
I had another Willy Philly for lunch yesterday, it was quite good once again.  $8.75, fills you up.

Now I have a hankering for tacos.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 09, 2020, 01:05:29 PM
Silly, I guess you would call it a monster movie? Involves tornadoes full of sharks. That sounds very Florida to me.
I don't watch movies. Not many, anyway.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 09, 2020, 01:30:50 PM
Shoot, Badge lives in Florida now, which I assume is just Sharknado ally.
He needs to change his handle to FloridaMan847...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 09, 2020, 01:56:39 PM
847 is my area code, and I'm a Badger fan.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 09, 2020, 06:55:50 PM
847 is my area code, and I'm a Badger fan.
I always thought that was your IQ
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 09, 2020, 08:47:28 PM
Anyone with an IQ of 847 would have killed themselves on January 20, 2016.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 09, 2020, 10:12:51 PM
How the fook did you make it out of 1980s Nebraska then?Nevermind don't answer that
who told you I made it out of the 80s???
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2020, 04:30:37 AM
Anyone with an IQ of 847 would have killed themselves on January 20, 2016.
I was close. I HATED that president. Worst ever and as corrupt as they come. 

That will happen when you send Chicago to Washington for 8 f'ing years.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 10, 2020, 05:15:55 AM
In other news, my "prime rib" was the best I've ever had, but the wife doesn't care for prime rib (which I kinda knew already).  Plenty left over.

Might make tacos.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 10, 2020, 09:22:38 AM
my daughter cooked a 4 lb beef roast in the crockpot

delicious 

it was her first attempt

a cockpot roast is hard to mess up
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on October 10, 2020, 12:34:16 PM
my daughter cooked a 4 lb beef roast in the crockpot

delicious

it was her first attempt

a cockpot roast is hard to mess up
Cockpots are notoriously popular
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on October 10, 2020, 01:02:27 PM
BTW already voted in Columbus.  Ohio's early voting started on Tuesday and last's until near election day.  They have on site, and I liked it because previously it had been pretty quick to vote.  Not this year, every day they had huge lines.  We went Friday and waited 35 minutes to vote.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2020, 01:24:40 PM
Thank you for voting. I think early starts here next week, but I can't recall. I'll do that rather than wait for all the rest of the snowbirds to show and clog the lines. I'm already seeing massive traffic increases.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 10, 2020, 01:26:34 PM
BTW already voted in Columbus.  Ohio's early voting started on Tuesday and last's until near election day.  They have on site, and I liked it because previously it had been pretty quick to vote.  Not this year, every day they had huge lines.  We went Friday and waited 35 minutes to vote.
Mailed in our absentee ballets today
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 10, 2020, 01:56:31 PM
Voted against Biden and his mental illness and astounding levels of corruption more so than for Trump.

I was a Bernie guy. Until he bent over and became a cuckold.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 10, 2020, 02:09:06 PM
BTW already voted in Columbus.  Ohio's early voting started on Tuesday and last's until near election day.  They have on site, and I liked it because previously it had been pretty quick to vote.  Not this year, every day they had huge lines.  We went Friday and waited 35 minutes to vote.
Applied for absentee ballot last week.I can wait but if the weather changes I'd leave then come back to a bigger line.So 1st time voting by mail
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 11, 2020, 03:56:11 AM
Voted against Biden and his mental illness and astounding levels of corruption more so than for Trump.

I was a Bernie guy. Until he bent over and became a cuckold.
Could you explain this further?  You were a Bernie guy...the most earnest, sympathetic candidate out there the last few cycles and vote for Trump?  I need help following that, truly.  I'm not being sarcastic or anything.

The two men are overtly diametrically opposed.  I've heard of Bernie people voting for Trump, I've just never met any.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 11, 2020, 07:44:48 AM
I think he did explain, mental failings and corruption, in his view.

Had that been an option for NOTA, I would have voted for it.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 11, 2020, 08:55:17 AM
Fox’s Big Noon Kickoff show will be live from the Horseshoe the morning of Nebraska’s opener at Ohio State.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 11, 2020, 11:02:34 AM
Power out here, no idea how widely spread
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 11, 2020, 11:27:34 AM
Power out here, no idea how widely spread
Complements of Delta?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 11, 2020, 11:35:06 AM
I’m trying to decide if I want to vote early. I’m 90% sure the place I live is going to make it more complicated than it needs to be. And based on where my polling place is and my work schedule, I should have a lot of time to be able to do that. But I still feel like it’s probably the right thing to do to knock it out early.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 11, 2020, 12:10:04 PM
Complements of Delta?
I don't know why that would be the case.  We had a lot of wind last night, I'd guess a tree limb fell.  We went to Home Depot and it was back on when we got back.

It was a few block area without power.

We have a generator for the elevators and e lighting.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 11, 2020, 12:44:39 PM
I don't know why that would be the case.  We had a lot of wind last night, I'd guess a tree limb fell.  We went to Home Depot and it was back on when we got back.

It was a few block area without power.

We have a generator for the elevators and e lighting.
That would be the case because it looks like to me the remaining storms of Delta passed over Georgia
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 11, 2020, 12:48:33 PM
Oh, I was thinking Delta Airlines, my bad.  Delta by dawn was gone with that flower she had on.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 11, 2020, 01:00:43 PM
Oh, I was thinking Delta Airlines, my bad.  Delta by dawn was gone with that flower she had on.


OK Helen
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 11, 2020, 01:25:14 PM
We've been trying to figure out what to do about voting. We both are permanent vote-by-mail participants, so we already have our ballots. But given some things this year, I don't now how well I trust that mailed ballots will be delivered where they're supposed to be and properly counted.

So we have to decide whether we'll do the vote-by-mail ballot and take it to one of the official drop boxes for ballots, which we can already do, or vote in person. In-person voting starts around 10/30 I think, and basically all you need to do is surrender your mail-in ballot at the polling place, so you don't need a "provisional" ballot or anything like that.

I'm thinking we'll just drop our mail-in ballots at one of the drop boxes. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 11, 2020, 01:29:20 PM
We mailed ours in last week.  

I mailed a check to my son that was returned twice, so I readdressed it last week and mailed it again and it still hasn't arrived.  He says the mail in TX is sporadic at best.

The mail here seems to be reliable nearly as I can discern.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 11, 2020, 04:21:29 PM
https://www.motortrend.com/features-collections/worst-roads-in-america-ranked-by-state/?slide=1


I am all astonishment.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 11, 2020, 05:14:19 PM
https://www.motortrend.com/features-collections/worst-roads-in-america-ranked-by-state/?slide=1


I am all astonishment.
must be a low bar
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 11, 2020, 05:28:34 PM
Well, it's relative obviously.  Weather helps, or hurts, as the case may be.  I was initially surprised how quickly new pavement in Ohio broke down.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 11, 2020, 06:07:07 PM

Freeze/thaw/rain/snow/truck blades......Freeze/thaw/rain/snow/truck blades.......Freeze/thaw/rain/snow/truck blades
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on October 11, 2020, 06:15:27 PM
https://www.motortrend.com/features-collections/worst-roads-in-america-ranked-by-state/?slide=1


I am all astonishment.
I would have to be shown proof any state in the country has worse roads than WV. According to that list we are in the top half. I call BS.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 11, 2020, 06:19:24 PM
I would have to be shown proof any state in the country has worse roads than WV. According to that list we are in the top half. I call BS.
Do you travel much?  I suspect the worst roads are where the worst winters exist, in general.  I do know if you get off the major highways in WV you can get stuck on a bad road for a long time.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 11, 2020, 06:22:13 PM
California roads suck because traffic is so constant you can't even begin to try fixing them. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 11, 2020, 06:26:08 PM
California roads suck because traffic is so constant you can't even begin to try fixing them.
It keeps referring to urban roads, which leads me to methodology questions.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 11, 2020, 06:49:50 PM
I'm going to vote in person on election day, like a weirdo.


I live in a high-poverty, high-minority area, so there won't be any lines.  Thanks, Republicans!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 11, 2020, 06:59:51 PM
https://www.motortrend.com/features-collections/worst-roads-in-america-ranked-by-state/?slide=1


I am all astonishment.
I am in utter state of shock that someone has worse roads down the state of Michigan.   When you drive there you feel like you are in a war zone literally
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 11, 2020, 08:21:09 PM
I'm going to vote in person on election day, like a weirdo.


I live in a high-poverty, high-minority area, so there won't be any lines.  Thanks, Republicans!
I'm voting in person like most of my neighbours

never any lines in the 30 years I've lived in the 400 person town I live in

nothing here changes much

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 11, 2020, 08:22:22 PM
the folks working the voting area all know me and don't need an ID or check the list
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 11, 2020, 09:34:37 PM
I'm going to vote in person on election day, like a weirdo.


I live in a high-poverty, high-minority area, so there won't be any lines.  Thanks, Republicans!
ok I was going to let this pass cause youre probably off your meds but curiosity got the best of me

just how have republicans caused your community conditions

or are you just building strawmen like you accuse others of doing

I mean I can play that game too my car needs repairs thanks dems
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 11, 2020, 09:41:30 PM
why wouldn't high-poverty, high-minority folks vote and cause lines?

cause the Dems bailed on Bernie?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 12, 2020, 03:45:21 AM
We saw lines on TV, so they shirely must be everywhere....

You can find almost anything somewhere in this country and film it for effect.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 12, 2020, 06:40:36 AM
On Wednesday, it will be 3 weeks since we got here. Have not gotten one single piece of mail. Mrs. 847 went to the post office on Saturday and found that they were forwarding all mail to my condo in Palatine, which I vacated on 7/30. One of my dock mates picked up some mail in Kenosha yesterday.

What I would really like is the check for my boat sale. 

All of this after I went on line to stop all forwarding on September 22.

But yeah. Mail-in voting will be fine.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 12, 2020, 09:48:28 AM
toss your vote in the mail at your own risk

I'm voting in person

as usual

my vote for President won't count for much being in Iowa, in-person or mail

but my votes for state and local elections might be important
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on October 12, 2020, 09:53:16 AM
toss your vote in the mail at your own risk

I'm voting in person

as usual

my vote for President won't count for much being in Iowa, in-person or mail

but my votes for state and local elections might be important
You don't think?  Polls show Iowa to be pretty close.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 12, 2020, 10:03:36 AM
I'm not a big believer in polls these days. Has anyone here ever been called for one?

I did one time. I gave a false answer for the fun of it. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 12, 2020, 10:14:57 AM
I'm not a big believer in polls these days. Has anyone here ever been called for one?

I did one time. I gave a false answer for the fun of it. :)
Im getting called 3 to 4 times a week

I always tell them Im a Black woman (poller was a machine) voting for Trump

If its a person doing the polling I turn into Mr Lib voting for Biden
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 12, 2020, 10:22:29 AM
You don't think?  Polls show Iowa to be pretty close.
I suppose it could be important

Iowa went with Obama
Iowa has a senate seat open that is hotly contested, unfortunately.  The Ads are ridiculous to say the least.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 12, 2020, 11:02:34 AM
I'm not a big believer in polls these days. Has anyone here ever been called for one?

I did one time. I gave a false answer for the fun of it. :)
For some reason, such behavior makes me uneasy. I'm trying to place a finger on why. 

I suppose I probably won't sit through a pollster's questions. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 12, 2020, 11:22:10 AM
polls are useless for many reasons

such behavior is merely one of them and probably the least self serving
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 12, 2020, 11:30:29 AM
For some reason, such behavior makes me uneasy. I'm trying to place a finger on why.

I suppose I probably won't sit through a pollster's questions.
youre uneasy because the polls just might be wrong
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 12, 2020, 12:53:09 PM
youre uneasy because the polls just might be wrong
Oh no, not that. I don't care about that. Polls are deeply limited, though people have trouble navigating that. I care about the why. 

It's the sort of glee taken in lying. Like, we live in a world where we question the truth of so many things, but we also get a sort of less-than-mature joy from contributing to it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 12, 2020, 01:15:06 PM
I wouldn't call it lying. Intentional misleading.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 12, 2020, 01:32:16 PM
I wouldn't call it lying. Intentional misleading.
Q: Who do you plan to vote for?
A: The exact opposite of the guy I'm actually planning to vote for.

That's not a lie, how? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 12, 2020, 01:33:58 PM
Lighten up.

If you can't find the humor in what I did, I'm sorry.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 12, 2020, 01:38:24 PM
Lighten up.

If you can't find the humor in what I did, I'm sorry.
I take delight in the fact that todays polls are skewed to the left intentionally so I just thought Id contribute to the charade

if they are stupid enough to mislead todays voters then they deserve what they get
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 12, 2020, 01:42:00 PM
It just seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy...

We can't trust polls.
Why not?
Because people can lie in their responses!
That's true. What do you think we should do about it?
I'm gonna lie if a pollster ever calls me just to F with them!

It's not "funny." It's just being a jerk. If you don't want to give honest answers, hang up the phone. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 12, 2020, 01:43:25 PM
It just seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy...

We can't trust polls.
Why not?
Because people can lie in their responses!
That's true. What do you think we should do about it?
I'm gonna lie if a pollster ever calls me just to F with them!

It's not "funny." It's just being a jerk. If you don't want to give honest answers, hang up the phone.
no thanks Id rather F with them thank you very much
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 12, 2020, 01:45:43 PM
see these folks have taken it upon themselves to invade my privacy and ask me a question

they might as well just open my front door walk over to me tap me on the shoulder and ask me questions

so yes Im gonna F with them
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 12, 2020, 01:50:20 PM
It just seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy...

We can't trust polls.
Why not?
Because people can lie in their responses!
That's true. What do you think we should do about it?
I'm gonna lie if a pollster ever calls me just to F with them!

It's not "funny." It's just being a jerk. If you don't want to give honest answers, hang up the phone.
The polls are gamed anyway. They are a lie. This was proven 4 years ago. Nothing really matters.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 12, 2020, 02:02:03 PM
The polls are gamed anyway. They are a lie. This was proven 4 years ago. Nothing really matters.
The polls were pretty solid in basically every election in history before that. And the pollsters, after that happened, basically said "what the heck did we miss and how can we get better next time?" Their response afterwards was to try to improve their methods to avoid being wrong in the future. 

Yet you call polls a lie, because they got the answer wrong, but you deliberately giving a pollster an answer you KNOW to be untrue isn't a lie. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 12, 2020, 02:10:00 PM
There are bigger fish to fry, my friend.

I'm voting next week. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on October 12, 2020, 02:15:36 PM
The polls are gamed anyway. They are a lie. This was proven 4 years ago. Nothing really matters.
I mean, the nationwide poll was pretty accurate. The states got some things wrong, but not in a crazy way - they changed quite a bit over time. Polls are just a snapshot of what people think and pollsters already know some people will lie to them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 12, 2020, 02:22:35 PM
Why do we need polls?

Answer:

We don't.

Why?

Many people in Wisconsin who did not vote, because they thought HRC had it in the bag. It happens a ton.

I'd also rather the networks wouldn't report voting on election night. Lots of people on the West Coast don't even bother. Hawaii? Why bother.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 12, 2020, 02:23:01 PM
4 years ago, the "exit" polls had Hillary winning big until about 10pm

I believe political polls as much as I believe Fox News or CNN

don't trust them a tall

they usually have an agenda 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 12, 2020, 02:23:38 PM
https://www.motortrend.com/features-collections/worst-roads-in-america-ranked-by-state/?slide=1


I am all astonishment.
Michigan has got to be #1 for the worst roads. Any list that doesn't have them #1 is invalid.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 12, 2020, 02:29:21 PM
I mean, the nationwide poll was pretty accurate. The states got some things wrong, but not in a crazy way - they changed quite a bit over time. Polls are just a snapshot of what people think and pollsters already know some people will lie to them.
when pollsters purposely over sample on one side so the results show what they want it to then it is no longer a poll but instead a tool to mislead the public

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 12, 2020, 02:33:44 PM
if candidates want to do a poll for their own info to help their campaign, that's fine

the people don't need the results

the people can make their own decisions based on their thoughts

if a group of voters or potential voters want poll information, they can poll whoever and however they'd like

the people don't need to be told how the rest of America thinks

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 12, 2020, 02:38:42 PM
if candidates want to do a poll for their own info to help their campaign, that's fine

the people don't need the results

the people can make their own decisions based on their thoughts

if a group of voters or potential voters want poll information, they can poll whoever and however they'd like

the people don't need to be told how the rest of America thinks


candidates do internal polls all the time and for the most part are accurate but the results arent released cause it would help the other side

you can bet that if all of s sudden a candidate starts saying something theyve never said before its because an internal poll told them thats what the voters want
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 12, 2020, 02:52:26 PM
Could you explain this further?  You were a Bernie guy...the most earnest, sympathetic candidate out there the last few cycles and vote for Trump?  I need help following that, truly.  I'm not being sarcastic or anything.

The two men are overtly diametrically opposed.  I've heard of Bernie people voting for Trump, I've just never met any.
A lot of what Bernie wants- I don't agree with. I liked him because I knew much of what he wanted- he'd never be able to pass- but I also felt like he was by far the least corrupt on the Democratic side and was the single candidate on either side that was truly the most for the people. Trump and Bernie actually overlap on a few important things for me- wars (lack of wars I should say), prescription drugs, trade (CHINA). Things Biden clearly gives zero shits about- why? Because he's bought and paid not to- that's why. 

Obama was arguably the worst President in the history of this country, and maybe the most corrupt. And Biden- one of the most corrupt, career long politicians that has ever existed in this country- was his #2 guy in that administration. Joe Biden and his brother and sons have been cashing in on his political career for millions of dollars for oh- the last 50 years. Why don't you do a little research on Biden. Dude was an openly racist POS in the '70s that said he didn't want his kids in desegregated schools or living in a racial jungle, the crime bill he championed and co-authored in the '90s hurt poor black people more than any single piece of legislation in modern history, he's corrupt as they come and in the back-pocket of wall street and the credit card industry, his family have made millions of dollars- literally- for no reason other than just trading off his name- every speech he's ever made was plagiarized, he's never had an original thought about anything- and he's openly publicly, weirdly, and callously lied like it was no problem at all about everything from graduating in the very top of his class (he didn't- he graduated in the bottom of his class), to being the only kid in his class on full-academic scholarship (he was on a half-academic scholarship) to having 3 degrees (he doesn't), to being arrested with Nelson Mandela (he wasn't) to marching in the civil rights movement (he didn't). 

Biden is a piece of shit of epic proportions. So- throw all that in with him clearly being in mental decline and having early onset dementia - yeah- no way. This country will be irreversibly damaged if he is elected.

Say what you want about Trump- but he's the only president that I can remember since Carter that has showed restraint and not thrown this country into war. The establishment was pushing hard for him to establish no-fly zones and invade Syria and topple Assad and turn it into a failed state just like they did to Iraq & Libya- but he pushed back on them. And he's drawing down in Afghanistan- like that lying snake Obama campaigned he was going to do in 2007-2008- only to ramp that war up. Biden would've had boots on the ground in Syria. He doesn't give a shit about the people in this country that actually have to go serve in those wars and put their lives at risk. He showed that when he voted for that bullshit war in Iraq.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 12, 2020, 03:04:05 PM
Wow, great explanation.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 12, 2020, 04:42:36 PM
Lighten up.

If you can't find the humor in what I did, I'm sorry.
So this and the resulting posts kind of cut to the core of my unease.

If it's just the sort of feeling of pulling one over on the pollster or the world at large, well, it's a kinda silly sort of humor, but whatever. 

But the other posts. They take it down another road. If we take it down 320's first post and Badge's follow up, the idea is that I'm being lied to (or at least I feel I am), so I must put more lies out into the world. It basically says because I think I'm being wronged, I should wrong others, make sure their world has a little more lie in it. 320 said it rather plainly, he'd rather F with people because there's a perverse joy in being deceitful. 

Badge pointed out we don't need polls at all. And for the most part, that's true. Consumers don't have to be given a product they want. Alas, capitalism exists. And to a degree, they serve something larger in the historical record, at least in some cases trying to gauge how people feel about their world. And instead of opting out, an act people often don't do, we mislead. 

My initial response came down to this: If it's the above reasoning, just a harmless little bit, the world has room for that, even if it's a little not nice. But if it's all the rest of the stuff, well it just feels like adding to the negativity and mistruth of the world that seems full up on it already. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 12, 2020, 04:45:10 PM
 This country will be irreversibly damaged if he is elected.

So we get irreversible damage no matter what happens? And we get someone in a bad state of mental decline no matter what? Joy!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 12, 2020, 04:58:10 PM
So this and the resulting posts kind of cut to the core of my unease.

If it's just the sort of feeling of pulling one over on the pollster or the world at large, well, it's a kinda silly sort of humor, but whatever.

But the other posts. They take it down another road. If we take it down 320's first post and Badge's follow up, the idea is that I'm being lied to (or at least I feel I am), so I must put more lies out into the world. It basically says because I think I'm being wronged, I should wrong others, make sure their world has a little more lie in it. 320 said it rather plainly, he'd rather F with people because there's a perverse joy in being deceitful.

Badge pointed out we don't need polls at all. And for the most part, that's true. Consumers don't have to be given a product they want. Alas, capitalism exists. And to a degree, they serve something larger in the historical record, at least in some cases trying to gauge how people feel about their world. And instead of opting out, an act people often don't do, we mislead.

My initial response came down to this: If it's the above reasoning, just a harmless little bit, the world has room for that, even if it's a little not nice. But if it's all the rest of the stuff, well it just feels like adding to the negativity and mistruth of the world that seems full up on it already.
polls are silly

very similar to surveys

I suppose a survey of vacationers could be useful if you want to go on a nice beach vacation with your daughters. Survey results of the top 10 beaches in the US, of the world, of Florida.  I've looked at them for this reason.  I then asked a local from the St. Pete/Tampa area and just took her word for it.  Hell, it's just her opinion or the opinion of a group of others.

I'd hope those folks weren't trying to mislead me for no good reason, but I'm skeptical.

same with ratings for bars or the best chicken wings in an area.   It's a popularity poll.

heck, I'm shopping for winter tires for my pickup.  Who shall I believe?  I'm not going to be able to spend enough time researching all the various options.  And even that research is from resources I'm not sure about.  I can't test drive 4 different options of tires in winter conditions before buying in a few weeks.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 12, 2020, 04:58:47 PM
So we get irreversible damage no matter what happens? And we get someone in a bad state of mental decline no matter what? Joy!
greatest country in the world, as far as I know
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 12, 2020, 05:06:09 PM
polls are silly

very similar to surveys

I suppose a survey of vacationers could be useful if you want to go on a nice beach vacation with your daughters. Survey results of the top 10 beaches in the US, of the world, of Florida.  I've looked at them for this reason.  I then asked a local from the St. Pete/Tampa area and just took her word for it.  Hell, it's just her opinion or the opinion of a group of others.

I'd hope those folks weren't trying to mislead me for no good reason, but I'm skeptical.

same with ratings for bars or the best chicken wings in an area.  It's a popularity poll.

heck, I'm shopping for winter tires for my pickup.  Who shall I believe?  I'm not going to be able to spend enough time researching all the various options.  And even that research is from resources I'm not sure about.  I can't test drive 4 different options of tires in winter conditions before buying in a few weeks.
Some of those actually seem kind of valuable. Not as a be-all, end-all, but as a good bit of guidance. I use those ratings often, and often enjoy good wings and bars. Maybe they're bought and paid for, but I'm enjoying just the same. 

Let me put it another way. People seem to be bothered when a thing they see is a lie, but they also seem to gain a level of joy from lying themselves, especially if it has a sort of toxic edge to it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 12, 2020, 05:06:58 PM
some humans aren't human
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 12, 2020, 05:12:10 PM
So we get irreversible damage no matter what happens? And we get someone in a bad state of mental decline no matter what? Joy!
We’re probably f*ked no matter what. We’re just less f*ked with Trump. 

Biden is in mental decline AND he’s a corrupt a piece of shit.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 12, 2020, 05:13:50 PM
greatest country in the world, as far as I know
I’ve been to a lot of different countries. Loved them all. Some more than others. 

Every time I come back to the US and my feet touch the ground I thank god that I had the good fortune to be born here. Might not be perfect, no country is, but it’s the best we’ve got. I love this country.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 12, 2020, 05:15:10 PM
We’re probably f*ked no matter what. We’re just less f*ked with Trump.

Biden is in mental decline AND he’s a corrupt a piece of shit.
Again, that last part, still fitting both fellas. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 12, 2020, 05:15:14 PM
We’re probably f*ked no matter what. We’re just less f*ked with Trump.

Biden is in mental decline AND he’s a corrupt a piece of shit.
a puppet and mouthpiece for the Democratic party
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 12, 2020, 05:16:53 PM
Again, that last part, still fitting both fellas.
any man that age is declining mentally to a certain extent

any man that can get his name on the ballot is corrupt
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 12, 2020, 05:40:25 PM
a puppet and mouthpiece for the super wealthy Oligarchs, Wall Street bankers, and multi-national corporations.
FIFY.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 12, 2020, 06:06:29 PM
Again, that last part, still fitting both fellas.
Trump isn’t showing signs of early onset dementia like Biden is. That’a not even close. Neither is the blatant corruption. Biden did not come from wealth, and was a literal nobody before he got into politics. Never even held a real job. Literally. Biden has enriched himself and his family- all through his political career. Biden’s net worth has increased by millions since he’s been in politics. GEE I WONDER WHY? Like Truman said, show me a man that gets rich by being a politician and I’ll show you a crook.

Trump? His net worth has declined significantly since he became president. He’s not in it for the money. Never has been.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 12, 2020, 06:15:36 PM
doesn't seem right

braves on FOX

Astros/Rays on TBS

I'm rooting against the Dodgers
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 12, 2020, 06:29:56 PM


Happy Columbus Day.... 

(https://radio.wosu.org/sites/wosu2/files/styles/medium/public/202006/columbus_city_hall16.jpg)

...Canadienne Thanksgiving... 

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/74/24/6d/74246d8d874a44531ca53b814a3dde88.jpg)

...and Indigenous Peoples Day!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dab5pBjVQAYf17n.jpg)


AKA: The Ultimate Trifecta! 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on October 12, 2020, 06:39:27 PM
Trump isn’t showing signs of early onset dementia like Biden is. That’a not even close. Neither is the blatant corruption. Biden did not come from wealth, and was a literal nobody before he got into politics. Never even held a real job. Literally. Biden has enriched himself and his family- all through his political career. Biden’s net worth has increased by millions since he’s been in politics. GEE I WONDER WHY? Like Truman said, show me a man that gets rich by being a politician and I’ll show you a crook.

Trump? His net worth has declined significantly since he became president. He’s not in it for the money. Never has been.
LOL
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 12, 2020, 06:44:54 PM
LOL
I don’t understand what’s so funny about this. Forbes and Bloomberg both reported this fact several times over the last few years. 

His presidency has cost him a fortune. Literally.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 12, 2020, 06:50:05 PM
well, he's cost himself a fortune more than a few times

don't think he real values money too awful much

he enjoys the game
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 12, 2020, 07:32:45 PM
I'm not a big believer in polls these days. 
Rev.Jim Ignatowski was my favorite and DudeK if he ever comes back
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 12, 2020, 07:47:51 PM
It's not "funny." It's just being a jerk. If you don't want to give honest answers, hang up the phone.
No it isn't the jerk trespassed on his time and phone unless he volunteered for it they should M.T.O.F.B.Not only that hackers have been known to do all sort of nefarious things with voice and phone#.Bwarb you are making a big leap thinking evryone who tosses questions out there is on the up and up.10 yrs ago I might agree with you but today?Fuggedaboutit .And "Voice hacking" can take many forms, but in most cases it is an effort by an attacker to copy an individual's unique "voiceprint" in order to steal his or her identity or to use hidden audio commands to target a speech-controlled system. If this seems farfetched, it's not.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 12, 2020, 07:57:03 PM
It's not "funny." It's just being a jerk. If you don't want to give honest answers, hang up the phone.
well, you could at least tell them that you're just jerking their chain after completing the poll.
then it's up to them to use the data or not
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 12, 2020, 08:09:42 PM
Michigan has got to be #1 for the worst roads. Any list that doesn't have them #1 is invalid.

I have only driven the stretch of I-75 that connects Toledo with Detroit, and I remember thinking "this must be what it is like to drive around in Beirut." 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 12, 2020, 08:14:38 PM
I know you guys are not used to hearing a Texan brag but Texas roads are in pretty good shape

Now if they could just stop continually working on them
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 12, 2020, 08:28:29 PM
No it isn't the jerk trespassed on his time and phone unless he volunteered for it they should M.T.O.F.B.Not only that hackers have been known to do all sort of nefarious things with voice and phone#.Bwarb you are making a big leap thinking evryone who tosses questions out there is on the up and up.10 yrs ago I might agree with you but today?Fuggedaboutit .And "Voice hacking" can take many forms, but in most cases it is an effort by an attacker to copy an individual's unique "voiceprint" in order to steal his or her identity or to use hidden audio commands to target a speech-controlled system. If this seems farfetched, it's not.
By this logic, telling lies to the person means risking more voice hacking than just doing nothing at all. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 12, 2020, 08:32:18 PM
Can you show me where I said to reply to it?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 12, 2020, 08:35:32 PM
By this logic, telling lies to the person means risking more voice hacking than just doing nothing at all.
will you quit taking life so seriously

just get in the boat and row

or dont worry bout the mules just load the wagon
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 12, 2020, 08:36:45 PM
Trump isn’t showing signs of early onset dementia like Biden is. That’a not even close. Neither is the blatant corruption. Biden did not come from wealth, and was a literal nobody before he got into politics. Never even held a real job. Literally. Biden has enriched himself and his family- all through his political career. Biden’s net worth has increased by millions since he’s been in politics. GEE I WONDER WHY? Like Truman said, show me a man that gets rich by being a politician and I’ll show you a crook.

Trump? His net worth has declined significantly since he became president. He’s not in it for the money. Never has been.
The president goes up in public as the most powerful man on earth and tells stories about pretend conversations with imaginary people. He's going foggy up there any way you cut it.

And if the president has never been in it for the money, he'd do some things to ensure people who want things from him can't send money flowing his way. Though I suppose one could argue he's never really been in much for the money since he's been  shockingly poor in picking projects (to his credit, he's been good at brand building, brand selling and working with money launderers).

(The weird part about Biden's wealth was that it basically all came together after he left office four years ago. It turns out, his money is kinda like the president's, all built on personal brand)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 12, 2020, 08:38:04 PM
Can you show me where I said to reply to it?
It read like a defense of it. If the advice is just don't talk to a person you don't want to talk to, then I withdraw my post. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 12, 2020, 08:40:29 PM
will you quit taking life so seriously

just get in the boat and row

or dont worry bout the mules just load the wagon
Both rowing and loading sound like serious work, and I shan't engage in such pursuits. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 12, 2020, 08:44:38 PM
Both rowing and loading sound like serious work, and I shan't engage in such pursuits.
see I knew there was some humor somewhere deep down in you

just take a deep breath and worry about things that really matter like

what the hell happened to the Yankees
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 12, 2020, 08:45:54 PM

Just a bunch of leftist mediots "polling" their own readership, and calling it a National Poll. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 12, 2020, 08:48:14 PM
Just a bunch of leftist mediots "polling" their own readership, and calling it a National Poll.

yep so you see why I thought Id add to it when they call me interrupting my watching of Big Bang Theory
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 12, 2020, 09:03:42 PM
see I knew there was some humor somewhere deep down in you

just take a deep breath and worry about things that really matter like

what the hell happened to the Yankees
That should be praised not worried about
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 12, 2020, 09:04:58 PM
yep so you see why I thought Id add to it when they call me interrupting my watching of Big Bang Theory
As long as it doesn't interrupt 2&1/2 men reruns
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 12, 2020, 10:13:36 PM
And if the president has never been in it for the money, he'd do some things to ensure people who want things from him can't send money flowing his way. Though I suppose one could argue he's never really been in much for the money since he's been shockingly poor in picking projects (to his credit, he's been good at brand building, brand selling and working with money launderers).

(The weird part about Biden's wealth was that it basically all came together after he left office four years ago. It turns out, his money is kinda like the president's, all built on personal brand)
You have got to be kidding me with this bs right here. Lol. Made me laugh out loud. It's so stupid, I don't even know where to start.

Trump's wealth came from his father first of all- the guy inherited hundreds of millions of dollars of cold hard cash & assets from his father. The guy also made billions of dollars with a B off of purchasing real estate and developing it. Whether you like him or not- he has done these things. I can guarantee you that Trump tower in Manhattan (a building he actually developed and owns) alone is worth at least $500 million.

He's also made hundreds of millions of dollars off of branding himself and selling books, merchandise, naming/licensing rights to other developers, and oh yeah- his reality TV show. Yes some of his businesses failed. Like his airline and his casinos in particular. But you know what- MOST BUSINESSES FAIL. The guy has made shitloads of money as a condo, hotel, and golf course developer.

There is nothing weird about Biden's wealth. One word comes to mind when thinking about Biden's wealth. That word isn't weird. It's DIRTY. His wealth is all dirty as F**K. It's nothing more than after the fact bribes. No different than both Clinton's with their foundation "donations" for access or Obama getting $500,000 a pop for 1 hour speeching gigs by Wall Street banks after leaving office right after he gave big private equity landlords bail outs and refused to really prosecute a single Wall Street bank during the financial crisis of 2008-2009. And speaking of Biden- the man's brother and sons have made millions trading off his name while he was in office. Wake the f**k up please. Corruption doesn't work like you think you it does. These assholes are too sophisticated to just take a suitcase full of cash while they are in office. Money is given to them after they leave office or it's given to their family members while they are in office. Brand. GTFO. Biden doesn't have a brand. He's got ZERO charisma or personality. He's an airhead that is senile and half dead. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 12, 2020, 10:16:26 PM
see I knew there was some humor somewhere deep down in you

just take a deep breath and worry about things that really matter like

what the hell happened to the Yankees
Trying to get me to think about Yankees baseball? Now that is funny. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on October 12, 2020, 10:17:29 PM
I don’t understand what’s so funny about this. Forbes and Bloomberg both reported this fact several times over the last few years.

His presidency has cost him a fortune. Literally.
His presidency is the only thing keeping him afloat. Literally.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 12, 2020, 10:18:16 PM
His presidency is the only thing keeping him afloat. Literally.
You cannot be this daft. His presidency has cost him hundreds of millions in revenue. Literally. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 12, 2020, 10:28:09 PM
You have got to be kidding me with this bs right here. Lol. Made me laugh out loud. It's so stupid, I don't even know where to start.

Trump's wealth came from his father first of all- the guy inherited hundreds of millions of dollars of cold hard cash & assets from his father. The guy also made billions of dollars with a B off of purchasing real estate and developing it. Whether you like him or not- he has done these things. I can guarantee you that Trump tower in Manhattan (a building he actually developed and owns) alone is worth at least $500 million.

He's also made hundreds of millions of dollars off of branding himself and selling books, merchandise, naming/licensing rights to other developers, and oh yeah- his reality TV show. Yes some of his businesses failed. Like his airline and his casinos in particular. But you know what- MOST BUSINESSES FAIL. The guy has made shitloads of money as a condo, hotel, and golf course developer.

Aww, the man who inherited a lot of money and plays a bad imitation of a rich guy on TV got you convinced he's a real smart businessman. He managed to turn hundreds of millions into needing to borrow money from his family. 

He's a snake, a ganef and almost assuredly involved in money laundering (it turns out most NY real estate development is). But he is good at making people think he's rich and then putting his name on garbage that people will buy, so I'll give him full credit for that. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 12, 2020, 10:28:39 PM
You cannot be this daft. His presidency has cost him hundreds of millions in revenue. Literally.
In revenue? How so?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on October 12, 2020, 10:43:14 PM
You cannot be this daft. His presidency has cost him hundreds of millions in revenue. Literally.
His name is the only consistent source of revenue he had. He's always been in various stages of financial trouble, being president has helped him stave off creditors.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 12, 2020, 10:47:15 PM
He doesn't even take a paycheck. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 12, 2020, 11:26:28 PM
Sitting back and watching the car wreck is a lot more fun than being in the car.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 12, 2020, 11:28:15 PM
Biden has lied once and that has been continuously and covers up one lie with another one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmW_CLyjqgY To tell whoppers in front of everyone and then to think the proleteriat is as vacant as himself is a stroll thru fantasy land.And now he's put the dem in dementia.I don't like Trump's tax changes I'm worse off because of them - I'll be abstaining on this one.Lie after lie after lie like one said not only dishonest but dumb.Any one is a Party puppet who pulls the pin on this one,ha a Flyweight
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 13, 2020, 01:28:09 AM
I do have to comment on the incredulity of the false equivalencies of +Trump  and -Biden.
Calling Biden a liar....when the alternative is Trump.  Seriously?
Criticizing Biden's speech....when the alternative is Trump.  You're joking, right?


Of all the innumerous aspects of a person....the most commonly cited I see made by the +Trump people are severe weaknesses of Trump.  



It's interesting, if nothing else.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 13, 2020, 06:29:34 AM
A vote for Biden is a vote for the "Harris administration together with Joe Biden".


I didn't make that up. Harris said it.


Deep thinkers better think, before voting for a puppet. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 13, 2020, 07:50:16 AM
I do have to comment on the incredulity of the false equivalencies of +Trump  and -Biden.
Calling Biden a liar....when the alternative is Trump.  Seriously?
Criticizing Biden's speech....when the alternative is Trump.  You're joking, right?


Of all the innumerous aspects of a person....the most commonly cited I see made by the +Trump people are severe weaknesses of Trump. 



It's interesting, if nothing else.
and yet Trump thinks the people deserve to know if he will pack the court

Trump wont raise your taxes Biden will

Trump wont stop fracking Biden will and  this will cost thousands of jobs and drive gasoline prices up

Trump is finishing his wall Biden no walls just come on in for free healthcare and college education

Trump respects the electoral system Biden wants to abolish the electoral college make Porto Rico and Washington DC states adding 4 dem senators

Trump will hold China's feet to the fire over trade Biden whatever China wants China gets just give my son another Billion dallars

I could list several more but dont have the time
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 13, 2020, 08:10:43 AM
Old Joey stopped in our neck of the woods and he's starting to make George BuschII look like an orator.Biden yesterday said he was proud to be running for Senate.See what happens when he's not wearing his wire


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-repeats-gaffe-that-hes-running-for-the-senate-appears-to-not-remember-mitt-romneys-name


"You know, we have to come together. That's why I'm running. I'm running as a proud Democrat for the Senate," Biden said, "when I ran as a proud Democrat for vice president, and I'm running as a proud Democrat for president. But I promise you this, I will govern as an American president."

President Trump mocked Biden's recent gaffes on Twitter.

"Sleepy Joe Biden had a particularly bad day today. He couldn’t remember the name of Mitt Romney, said again he was running for the U.S. Senate, and forgot what State he was in. If I did any of this, it would be disqualifying. With him, he’s just Sleepy Joe!" Trump exclaimed.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 13, 2020, 08:21:18 AM
A vote for Biden is a vote for the "Harris administration together with Joe Biden".


I didn't make that up. Harris said it.


Deep thinkers better think, before voting for a puppet.
So the answer isn't to vote? I guess that makes sense. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 13, 2020, 08:22:12 AM
"Interesting" time we live in.

I could find two candidates on THIS message board that would be better than these two.

Probably find 20 here, actually.

The most powerful country on Earth and this is what we get to pick from?

Geez.

"Interesting"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 13, 2020, 08:22:46 AM
I do have to comment on the incredulity of the false equivalencies of +Trump  and -Biden.
Calling Biden a liar....when the alternative is Trump.  Seriously?
Criticizing Biden's speech....when the alternative is Trump.  You're joking, right?


Of all the innumerous aspects of a person....the most commonly cited I see made by the +Trump people are severe weaknesses of Trump. 
Listen don't bring a knife to a gun fight.I'm not voting for either.Repeatedly he splattered whoppers all over the place.and continued to do so.Watch that video again - it's in English,put the pint down 1st.If you can't discern for your self these daft repeated responses then you're a candidate for the asylum Congress
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 13, 2020, 08:22:51 AM
So the answer isn't to vote? I guess that makes sense.
Everyone should vote. Just try not to throw up when you do.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 13, 2020, 08:28:38 AM
"Interesting" time we live in.

I could find two candidates on THIS message board that would be better than these two.

Probably find 20 here, actually.


The most powerful country on Earth and this is what we get to pick from?

Geez.

"Interesting"
We should prolly close all political discourse here with those words.I'm starting to believe we just might have a Shadow Government/Deep State,the Bilderbergs/Rothchilds all that sort of thing.I can't believe we can only trot out these two,SMDH.I've been saying this for a while - whose the better of the Bad or lesser of 2 evils
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 13, 2020, 08:31:55 AM
So the answer isn't to vote? I guess that makes sense.
Not if you have a conscience and they both resemble 2 crows picking at road kill.One's just a little more "sleepy"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 13, 2020, 08:41:23 AM
If you have a problem with Trump then Kamala will put you into heaven

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 13, 2020, 08:44:03 AM
We should prolly close all political discourse here with those words.I'm starting to believe we just might have a Shadow Government/Deep State,the Bilderbergs/Rothchilds all that sort of thing.I can't believe we can only trot out these two,SMDH.I've been saying this for a while - whose the better of the Bad or lesser of 2 evils
I think we can go ahead and take that garbage and put it right in the trash. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 13, 2020, 08:47:17 AM
Along with what our Federal Gov't is handing the masses today.Why are the major parties propping these guys up?You should read some Youtube comment section.Even people from Guatemala and Azerbaijan are like WTF
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 13, 2020, 08:58:19 AM
This thread has less than two weeks to live. 

When/If the Virus thread closes, we will be back to 100% normal around here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 13, 2020, 09:15:28 AM
"Interesting" time we live in.

I could find two candidates on THIS message board that would be better than these two.

Probably find 20 here, actually.

The most powerful country on Earth and this is what we get to pick from?

Geez.

"Interesting"
it obviously wasn't any better 4 years ago
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 13, 2020, 09:20:27 AM
Voting is an opiate for the masses.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 13, 2020, 09:20:36 AM
it obviously wasn't any better 4 years ago
I'd argue that...

Are you better off than you were 4 years ago? I am, financially, for sure.

This virus thing has really clouded the feelings of many, including me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 13, 2020, 09:24:11 AM
I'd argue that...

Are you better off than you were 4 years ago? I am, financially, for sure.

This virus thing has really clouded the feelings of many, including me.
was referring to the lesser of two evils we had to choose from in the election

I'd rather vote for Biden than Hillary, but I'd rather vote for the earlier Trump than the present day Trump
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 13, 2020, 09:24:18 AM
This thread has less than two weeks to live.

When/If the Virus thread closes, we will be back to 100% normal around here.
There's a 1st time for everything
it obviously wasn't any better 4 years ago
Ya just bad in a different way hillary had horrible B.O. and Sleepy Joe can't keep his hands to himself or his stories straight and Trump the twitter twirp
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 13, 2020, 09:25:54 AM
Voting is an opiate for the masses.
More like the bane
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 13, 2020, 09:27:41 AM
most of the masses don't care enough to vote
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 13, 2020, 09:28:32 AM
Maybe we have a political site other than A51 which is dominated.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 13, 2020, 09:40:19 AM
One of the things about Trump that appeals to me is the fact that he waves our flag and supports the military and law enforcement

Trump puts America first which he has demonstrated several times

after 8 years of Obama this is very refreshing

Trump is a street wise salesman he is not a politician

Trump is rude can be a bully and does stretch the truth on occasion but he also attempts to do everything he promised in his 2016 campaign

In addition Trump is not a war promoter and has been nominated 4 times this year for the Nobel Piece Prize

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on October 13, 2020, 09:53:12 AM
Voting is an opiate for the masses.
https://youtu.be/hD9pJzZ1XGI
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 13, 2020, 10:04:18 AM
far out man
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on October 13, 2020, 10:09:06 AM
Georgia making the case that America is a shithole country

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/13/more-than-10-hour-wait-and-long-lines-as-early-voting-starts-in-georgia
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 13, 2020, 10:12:23 AM
old news
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 13, 2020, 10:12:36 AM
One of the things about Trump that appeals to me is the fact that he waves our flag and supports the military and law enforcement

I'm all for supporting our military - 2 of my Brothers spent 24 & 26 yrs.I'm not pro Military Industrial turds cleaning out the National Treasurey.Just look at the crap that POS DICK CHeney pulled when he was VP.And the poof got 6 deferments during Vietnam but capitolized on other wars when he was in office.There is a special place in the underworld for knobs like that
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 13, 2020, 10:14:37 AM
In addition Trump is not a war promoter and has been nominated 4 times this year for the Nobel Piece Prize
The way Sleepy Joe vacillates I wouldn't be surprised if he was one of them
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 13, 2020, 06:02:36 PM
This is a more fitting thing to put in this thread than in the COVID thread...

https://dangoodspeed.com/covid/total-cases-since-june

Really really cool visualization of the states over time.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 13, 2020, 07:36:58 PM
One of the things about Trump that appeals to me is the fact that he waves our flag and supports the military and law enforcement
EVERYONE DOES!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 13, 2020, 07:39:36 PM
and yet Trump thinks the people deserve to know if he will pack the court

Trump wont raise your taxes Biden will

Trump wont stop fracking Biden will and  this will cost thousands of jobs and drive gasoline prices up

Trump is finishing his wall Biden no walls just come on in for free healthcare and college education

Trump respects the electoral system Biden wants to abolish the electoral college make Porto Rico and Washington DC states adding 4 dem senators

Trump will hold China's feet to the fire over trade Biden whatever China wants China gets just give my son another Billion dallars

I could list several more but dont have the time
You don't ever need to post anything, we all have FoxNews.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 13, 2020, 08:04:00 PM
Nobody talks about the deficit.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 13, 2020, 08:12:56 PM
You don't ever need to post anything, we all have FoxNews.
sorry if facts bother you 

and no everybody in this country does not wave the flag or support law and order
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on October 13, 2020, 08:51:40 PM
Interesting stats - in Ohio, they have received roughly double the absentee ballot applications compared to 2016 and roughly 3x as many people have voted early.

Also received my first poll call. I just shouted MAGA in response to every question.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 13, 2020, 08:52:31 PM
Interesting stats - in Ohio, they have received roughly double the absentee ballot applications compared to 2016 and roughly 3x as many people have voted early.

Also received my first poll call. I just shouted MAGA in response to every question.
😂😂😂
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 13, 2020, 09:10:12 PM
Nobody talks about the deficit.
maybe not but the senate race here talks all about "gutting" social security

nothing is going to happen with the budget or social security or the right to bear arms or many other things
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 13, 2020, 09:12:36 PM
Interesting stats - in Ohio, they have received roughly double the absentee ballot applications compared to 2016 and roughly 3x as many people have voted early.

Also received my first poll call. I just shouted MAGA in response to every question.
sometimes Im a Black woman voting for Trump and sometimes Im Hispanic got to be an equal opportunity poll responder
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 13, 2020, 09:14:22 PM
maybe not but the senate race here talks all about "gutting" social security

nothing is going to happen with the budget or social security or the right to bear arms or many other things
thats an old wives tail the dems like to tell

social security and the 2nd amendment are gold under Trump
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 13, 2020, 09:17:38 PM
social security and the 2nd amendment are gold under Hillary, Biden, Bernie or anyone

I understand some voters don't understand this

politics pray on the uninformed and the ignorant
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 13, 2020, 09:34:37 PM
social security and the 2nd amendment are gold under Hillary, Biden, Bernie or anyone

I understand some voters don't understand this

politics pray on the uninformed and the ignorant
so you dont believe Kamala when she says that there needs to be a mandatory buy back program

youre very trusting
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 13, 2020, 09:37:47 PM
Kamala can't do shit

when's the last time a VP ever did anything

well, she can talk
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 13, 2020, 09:59:09 PM
sorry if facts bother you

and no everybody in this country does not wave the flag or support law and order
People’s trust in government employees to do the right thing is always interesting. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 13, 2020, 10:05:18 PM
Kamala can't do shit

when's the last time a VP ever did anything

well, she can talk
Kamala will be our President if Biden actually wins 25th Amendment will be invoked 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 13, 2020, 10:15:14 PM
mandatory buy back program by executive order?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 13, 2020, 11:00:52 PM
Nobody talks about the deficit.
Republicans do, but only when a Democrat is in the White House.  And then they OBSESS about it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 13, 2020, 11:02:05 PM
sorry if facts bother you

and no everybody in this country does not wave the flag or support law and order
You left out SUPPORTS THE TROOPS.  Why is that, I wonder?  The more you share, the more disgusting you look.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 14, 2020, 06:19:22 AM
This is a more fitting thing to put in this thread than in the COVID thread...

https://dangoodspeed.com/covid/total-cases-since-june

Really really cool visualization of the states over time.
Hopefully this message resonates with certain types to keep away from Florida. Just stay home in their high tax states. It's dangerous here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 14, 2020, 08:49:28 AM
yup, move to Texas

or just go there to holiday and party
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 14, 2020, 09:16:22 AM
Hopefully this message resonates with certain types to keep away from Florida. Just stay home in their high tax states. It's dangerous here.
I mean, if they let in goons from Chicago, they'll take anyone. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 14, 2020, 09:32:59 AM
I fled Chicago for a reason. Taxes. 

We don't need that here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 14, 2020, 09:36:06 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/qdRtVLw.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 14, 2020, 09:49:05 AM
social security and the 2nd amendment are gold under Hillary, Biden, Bernie or anyone

I understand some voters don't understand this

politics pray on the uninformed and the ignorant
I heard the same thing about my health insurance, then they passed Obamacare and my premiums tripled and my deductible went through the roof. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 14, 2020, 10:01:13 AM
I heard the same thing about my health insurance, then they passed Obamacare and my premiums tripled and my deductible went through the roof.
Same. Lost my doctor, and virtually all reasonable coverage.   I now pay enormous premiums for very little coverage.  It severely impacts when, and how I can retire. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 14, 2020, 10:04:54 AM
We just got our renewal papers for our corporate insurance. Our rate has now quadrupled since 2010.

We are going to pass more onto the employees again. We used to provide it free of charge. That is obviously impossible now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 14, 2020, 10:25:33 AM
I fled Chicago for a reason. Taxes.

We don't need that here.
And they will flee for their reasons too. But on the plus side, if someone else comes in with their politics you disagree with, Wyoming and Montana are always open. Texas too (well, maybe with the politics long term). 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 14, 2020, 10:28:54 AM
We just got our renewal papers for our corporate insurance. Our rate has now quadrupled since 2010.

We are going to pass more onto the employees again. We used to provide it free of charge. That is obviously impossible now.
I still find myself feeling the government needs to get fully out of or fully into healthcare. I.e., it needs to stop being your problem, full stop. The way it's tied to jobs is super market distorting. 

(Granted, a fully free market insurance system might end up calling down all sorts or regulation on itself, which would be an issue)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 14, 2020, 10:29:09 AM
I would hope that most of those fleeing high taxes would not vote for those who are in favor of raising or adding new taxes. This is one of my biggest fears here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on October 14, 2020, 10:35:24 AM
I would hope that most of those fleeing high taxes would not vote for those who are in favor of raising or adding new taxes. This is one of my biggest fears here.

We've been talking more about retirement locations now that Chicago has lost its luster.  I suspect Florida will end up with higher taxes in the future due to all the NorthEast Democrats moving south for warmth and keeping the oceans from taking over tourist destinations.   
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 14, 2020, 10:38:05 AM
I would hope that most of those fleeing high taxes would not vote for those who are in favor of raising or adding new taxes. This is one of my biggest fears here.
I have personally spoken to dozens of North East Usa transplants here in Florida. They openly admit their departure was to flee higher taxes and then in the next breath profess their love for candidates who are immediately going to raise their taxes here in Florida. It is mind boggling
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 14, 2020, 10:42:42 AM
Ugh.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 14, 2020, 10:43:26 AM
I have personally spoken to dozens of North East Usa transplants here in Florida. They openly admit their departure was to flee higher taxes and then in the next breath profess their love for candidates who are immediately going to raise their taxes here in Florida. It is mind boggling


Exporting idiocy. 

You see the same thing with Californians, driven out of that state and instead of learning their lesson, they just wreck their new state. Colorado, for example. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 14, 2020, 10:44:23 AM
We've been talking more about retirement locations now that Chicago has lost its luster.  I suspect Florida will end up with higher taxes in the future due to all the NorthEast Democrats moving south for warmth and keeping the oceans from taking over tourist destinations. 
Chicago is in the toilet and it's going to take the rest of Illinois with it. But, the same crooks keep getting elected somehow. We just couldn't take it anymore.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 14, 2020, 10:45:19 AM

Exporting idiocy.

You see the same thing with Californians, driven out of that state and instead of learning their lesson, they just wreck their new state. Colorado, for example.
Arizona. Nevada. Texas is in range now too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on October 14, 2020, 10:55:22 AM
I have personally spoken to dozens of North East Usa transplants here in Florida. They openly admit their departure was to flee higher taxes and then in the next breath profess their love for candidates who are immediately going to raise their taxes here in Florida. It is mind boggling
I think this is sooo true.   People for some reason separateate something they dislike from the political party they support.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on October 14, 2020, 10:58:01 AM
As a member of GenerationX I am also slowly accepting that the larger generations that follow me have a different view on life and part of that difference is what they expect/want from their government.   
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 14, 2020, 10:58:33 AM
Yeah, it is amazing that their devotion to the Borg is so strong that they remain assimilated to it even after being driven out of their own state. 

Mindless conformists. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 14, 2020, 10:59:13 AM
Arizona. Nevada. Texas is in range now too.
North Dakota stands tall as an alternative. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 14, 2020, 11:08:19 AM
So does a private island in the Caribbean. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Riffraft on October 14, 2020, 11:09:08 AM
North Dakota stands tall as an alternative.
I would love to live in that part of the country Mountana, North Dakota, etc for political reasons, but there is this thing called WINTER
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 14, 2020, 11:09:32 AM
As a member of GenerationX I am also slowly accepting that the larger generations that follow me have a different view on life and part of that difference is what they expect/want from their government. 
They sure do. Much of that started in schools. I've witnessed it happen to some of my family members.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 14, 2020, 11:14:03 AM
North Dakota stands tall as an alternative.
I'm sure you people will find your way there too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 14, 2020, 11:14:41 AM
We just got our renewal papers for our corporate insurance. Our rate has now quadrupled since 2010.

We are going to pass more onto the employees again. We used to provide it free of charge. That is obviously impossible now.
yup, health ins has been going up at alarming rates for at least a decade
not sure how much Obamacare affected it
probably made it worse

having the government running anything isn't good
cincy once pointed out something the government was doing a good job with, I can't remember what is was.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 14, 2020, 11:16:02 AM
I would love to live in that part of the country Mountana, North Dakota, etc for political reasons, but there is this thing called WINTER
if it wasn't for winter those states are great places to live and raise a family
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 14, 2020, 11:18:47 AM
I have personally spoken to dozens of North East Usa transplants here in Florida. They openly admit their departure was to flee higher taxes and then in the next breath profess their love for candidates who are immediately going to raise their taxes here in Florida. It is mind boggling
old folks from the NE have been flocking to Florida for decades

thankfully, the high tax rates haven't happened yet
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 14, 2020, 11:21:48 AM
if it wasn't for winter those states are great places to live and raise a family
If they had nice Winters then more people would move there, and they would no longer be great places to live and raise a family. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on October 14, 2020, 11:38:20 AM
old folks from the NE have been flocking to Florida for decades

thankfully, the high tax rates haven't happened yet
 a lot of them have gone to Arizona as well
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 14, 2020, 11:48:08 AM
I'm sure you people will find your way there too.
Me people? Ahh, silly Buckeye. I moved to the south for work reasons, not to avoid taxes. And I moved to a state where I was in the highest state tax bracket despite making shockingly little money. 

Anywho, the answer remains the same. If you don't like your neighbors, you have two choices: move or complain. We're all just talking about being different sorts of transplants anyway. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 14, 2020, 11:53:08 AM
I would love to live in that part of the country Mountana, North Dakota, etc for political reasons, but there is this thing called WINTER
Correct. The breaks of living somewhere that's "desirable" is having to deal with other people who want to live there. 

(Believe me, I know that feeling first hand, and not even at a place I just moved to)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Entropy on October 14, 2020, 11:56:48 AM
I just want to retire someplace where the majority of people are moderates.... not too liberal and not too conservative, but a blend.   
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 14, 2020, 11:57:48 AM
Utee's neighborhood
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 14, 2020, 12:22:36 PM
I just want to retire someplace where the majority of people are moderates.... not too liberal and not too conservative, but a blend. 
I have that same dream. Thankfully, at least right now that I can tell, that's what we have here in our area.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 14, 2020, 12:28:37 PM
I just want to retire someplace where the majority of people are moderates.... not too liberal and not too conservative, but a blend. 
then you dont want to live in my neighborhood

Im the field marshal of our block
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 14, 2020, 12:30:45 PM
my neighborhood is moderate, but there is snow starting any week now
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 14, 2020, 01:41:52 PM
my neighborhood is moderate, but there is snow starting any week now
Is it moderate snow?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 14, 2020, 01:59:03 PM
I have that same dream. Thankfully, at least right now that I can tell, that's what we have here in our area.
Didn’t this describe parts of Wisconsin like 25 years ago? Granted it’s still too cold
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 14, 2020, 02:05:45 PM
It described most of Wisconsin outside the State of Madison and City of Milwaukee. Still does.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 14, 2020, 02:08:33 PM
Is it moderate snow?
most seasons, but then there's always a few every decade that SUCK
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 14, 2020, 02:50:48 PM
Utee's neighborhood
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/7twIWElrcmnzW/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 14, 2020, 03:30:45 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/4nwCJjG.jpg)

utee's next door neighbor
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 14, 2020, 03:35:48 PM
He knocked up his nextdoor neighbor?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 14, 2020, 03:48:49 PM
Hey that's Ed Asner
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 14, 2020, 03:54:04 PM
is Ed an assistant coach in C-Bus?

never heard of him
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 14, 2020, 06:05:19 PM
In the seemed like a good idea at the time departmrnt or

as we say in Texas "Hold my beer and watch this"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B1AifgW_0w
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 15, 2020, 07:31:25 AM
What I wonder is if the B1G and PAC are starting to think about not playing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 15, 2020, 08:17:36 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/anwBhCv.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 15, 2020, 08:41:37 AM
What I wonder is if the B1G and PAC are starting to think about not playing.
I doubt it.  Nothing has changed really.  Everyone knew we would have some teams with outbreaks, postponed games etc.  
it is pretty much what they all planned for.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 15, 2020, 09:01:30 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/anwBhCv.png)


Forget that.

She'd be pushing 40 by now. O0
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 15, 2020, 12:55:20 PM
Two staffers of Kamala Harris have tested positive for corona

It will be interesting to see if the media heavily criticizes her as they did President Trump for

not managing the pandemic very well

I hope for their speedy recovery and just want to point out that this virus does not care about political parties
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 15, 2020, 01:07:25 PM
too bad the political parties didn't care about their selfish ambitions regarding the virus

losers
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 15, 2020, 01:11:07 PM
too bad the political parties didn't care about their selfish ambitions regarding the virus

losers
not sure what that means but lets see if the media tees off on Kamala

dont think so
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 15, 2020, 01:23:11 PM
ya can't beat up on girls like ya can a big bully like Donald

it's just not the same comparison

but, everything is relative, you can make judgements based on the reaction of the press 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 15, 2020, 01:44:16 PM
ya can't beat up on girls like ya can a big bully like Donald

it's just not the same comparison

but, everything is relative, you can make judgements based on the reaction of the press
Kamala is one of the biggest bullys the dems have

The dems have said Trump has mismanaged this pandemic and they support that by saying that he cant even keep the WH from catching it

They like to point out just how safe they are wearing masks etc and if Trump would do that the US would be so much better off

well karma is a bitch no offense Kamala
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 15, 2020, 01:51:18 PM

Forget that.

She'd be pushing 40 by now. O0
That's almost as many push ups as you've done since then 😎
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 15, 2020, 01:54:45 PM
ya can't beat up on girls like ya can a big bully like Donald
After listening to comments directed at Hillary/Pelosi Kamala better wear a cup...and some ear plugs
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 15, 2020, 02:02:53 PM
comments from the press?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 15, 2020, 02:03:48 PM
Kamala is one of the biggest bullys the dems have

The dems have said Trump has mismanaged this pandemic and they support that by saying that he cant even keep the WH from catching it

They like to point out just how safe they are wearing masks etc and if Trump would do that the US would be so much better off

well karma is a bitch no offense Kamala
well, then the Dems don't have much for bullies
Kamala is no Hillary
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 15, 2020, 02:59:05 PM
We're back from a three night trip a bit north, saw my cousin in MC, drive through the mountains a bit on the Cherohala Skyway and spent on night in Chattanooga.  The leavse this year appear to be just going brown and falling.  Mask wearing in the smaller cities is very optional.  Chattanooga was almost a ghost town, it would be fairly crowded around this time usually.  The wife didn't think much of it, I though it was fine.

I didn't feel that much "at risk" driving and staying, first time we've been out since Feb. 20.  

We did walk through the Kilmer National Forest where other hikers were being very sensible about distancing and masks.  That is an old growth parcel preserved in NC, in reality, it doesn't look any different from regular woods in the area.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 15, 2020, 03:00:39 PM
good to get out and get some fresh mountain air
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 15, 2020, 03:10:02 PM
We're back from a three night trip a bit north, saw my cousin in MC, drive through the mountains a bit on the Cherohala Skyway and spent on night in Chattanooga.  The leavse this year appear to be just going brown and falling.  Mask wearing in the smaller cities is very optional.  Chattanooga was almost a ghost town, it would be fairly crowded around this time usually.  The wife didn't think much of it, I though it was fine.

I didn't feel that much "at risk" driving and staying, first time we've been out since Feb. 20. 

We did walk through the Kilmer National Forest where other hikers were being very sensible about distancing and masks.  That is an old growth parcel preserved in NC, in reality, it doesn't look any different from regular woods in the area.
what is MC
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 15, 2020, 03:28:48 PM
Should be NC, she and her husband retired to a nice home near Murphy, NC.  We all went to the same HS.  We stayed in a Hampton Inn in Murphy and dined out a few times.  I think it's "OK" to travel, not perfect, but probably OK, we'll see.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Kris60 on October 15, 2020, 03:34:03 PM
Come to WV. Leaves are gorgeous here right now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 15, 2020, 03:36:38 PM
Travel is fine by car. I'm not ready to fly just yet.

Hampton or other Hilton products are the way to go. Very trustworthy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 15, 2020, 03:42:08 PM
Fearless says Motel 6 will leave the light on
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 15, 2020, 03:49:01 PM
brightly colored leaves here on the golf course

on the trees, in the rough, in the goll derned fairway
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 15, 2020, 06:03:04 PM
At Purdue University, there were four students taking chemistry and all of them had an 'A' grade average. The four friends were so confident that the weekend before finals, they decided to go to Chicago, visit some friends and have a big party. They had a great time, but after all the partying, they slept all day Sunday and didn't make it back to the campus until too late Monday morning to take their tests.

Since they missed the test, they decided they would explain to the professor why they were not there to take their tests. They told him they had visited friends but on the way back to W. Lafayette, they had a flat tire and found there was no spare in the car. As a result, they missed their finals. The Professor agreed they could make up the final the next day. The guys were excited and very much relieved. They all studied that night for their exams scheduled the following day.

The next day the Professor placed them in separate rooms and gave them a test booklet. They each quickly answered the first problem which was worth 5 points. They all felt a sense of relief. With each of them in separate rooms, they thought this was going to be easy. Then they turned the page........................................



On the second page was written; For 95 points, Which tire went flat?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 15, 2020, 06:07:11 PM
Chattanooga sounds like one of those old timey car horns. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 15, 2020, 07:45:27 PM

On the second page was written; For 95 points, Which tire went flat?

my prof would have said, "tough sh!t. you missed the test"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 16, 2020, 07:41:26 AM
Fire ants kinda suck.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 16, 2020, 08:24:12 AM
Farmer's market at the marina today. Gonna get some triple tail and stone crab. It's time!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 16, 2020, 09:25:24 AM
Farmer's market at the marina today. Gonna get some triple tail and stone crab. It's time!!
For a second I thought you wrote TRIPE
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 16, 2020, 09:27:17 AM
For a second I thought you wrote TRIPE
Tripe is good in Pho.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 16, 2020, 09:44:17 AM
Fire ants kinda suck.
don't play golf in Texas
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 16, 2020, 09:54:39 AM
don't play golf in Texas  at all
FIFY
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 16, 2020, 09:58:33 AM
damn, that would mean I get less exercise, less fresh air, and sit in a stuffy bar on a stool way too much for my health.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 16, 2020, 10:00:13 AM
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/312484#home_remedies_for_fire_ant_stings


I don't take kindly to these m-fr's. Worse than no see ums. I need to learn how to live here.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 16, 2020, 10:12:12 AM
damn, that would mean I get less exercise, less fresh air, and sit in a stuffy bar on a stool way too much for my health.


OK then,
 (https://tenor.com/view/ill-allow-it-ken-jeong-korean-mexican-hat-gif-5187167)
(https://i.imgur.com/iK76Ljb.png)
 (https://tenor.com/view/ill-allow-it-ken-jeong-korean-mexican-hat-gif-5187167)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 16, 2020, 10:25:26 AM
I always think of this when I hear fire ant discussion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhXl9_K_9qE
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 16, 2020, 10:30:30 AM
That stuff really does work

got rid of a very big fire ant mound in my front yard with just a little Ortho sprinkled on the mound

a week later and wala they are gone
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 16, 2020, 10:32:44 AM
Just ordered that and the killer. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 16, 2020, 10:51:46 AM
I want share with you guys one of the funniest stand up guys Ive seen in a long time

This routine is about 10 minutes but stick with it as it gets good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2zsmXHAqg8
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 16, 2020, 11:03:58 AM
don't play golf in Texas
word

Just don't come to Texas at all.  Fire ants the size of you head.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 16, 2020, 11:20:45 AM
And when it floods in Texas. which is just about every spring and fall and sometimes summer and winter, you get to experience these floating balls of nightmare fuel:


(https://ferrebeekeeper.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/fire-ant-ball.jpg?w=490)

(https://ferrebeekeeper.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/article-1380471-0bc4278f00000578-990_634x286.jpg?w=490)

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/S4rl2IqnENk0r5uHHcPkDYM_CjU=/0x0:1079x592/920x613/filters:focal(454x210:626x382):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/56423587/DIRa0yJXgAgEe8J.0.jpg)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 16, 2020, 11:34:12 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBK9ZOMGFgw&ab_channel=HeywoodBanks
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 17, 2020, 08:21:13 AM
This thread has 5 more days of life.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 17, 2020, 09:04:35 AM
thank God!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 18, 2020, 10:02:44 AM
4 more days.

I see Gameday is headed to Minnie this weekend. 

Better make sure to save space on the bowl right for having Gameday in back-to-back years. 

I wonder if they'll shit the bed like they did last year in front of the Gameday crew?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 18, 2020, 10:11:38 AM
Gameday in a Big Ten city is good news

Gameday in a Big Ten West city is golden

golden gophers
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 18, 2020, 10:15:13 AM
This thread has 5 more days of life.
why 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 18, 2020, 10:34:29 AM
won't be off-season any longer
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 18, 2020, 10:42:00 AM
Yep. We will be on out regularly scheduled SOC threads, which Max or ELA seem to start every week. Maybe I'll be able to, now that I'm Eastern time. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 18, 2020, 10:45:09 AM
I forgot the Big Ten wasn't playing yet.  Huh.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 18, 2020, 11:26:56 AM
won't be off-season any longer
its gonna be off-season until this virus is beaten

it aint business as usual

dont get me wrong Im happy as hell we gut it out and play football but it simply is not 

a normal situation and wont be until vaccine and other things happen

is it normal to shut down non football threads when the season starts

never seen that before

now if you object to politics being discussed thats fine just issue a directive against that topic but dont shut down threads

let them die naturally like normal
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 18, 2020, 11:36:17 AM
We have had offseason streams for many years now. I normally start them, and end them when football starts.

And yeah, the politics can go 2020 itself. :96: 


It's too divisive, even though I do believe most of us have handled it pretty well. We've all slipped though, on occasion. Overall I'm proud of how we've gotten through this thread.

And, since I'm not a dictator, I'll listen to suggestions. But, I do like the weekly streams.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 18, 2020, 11:58:36 AM
its gonna be off-season until this virus is beaten

it aint business as usual

dont get me wrong Im happy as hell we gut it out and play football but it simply is not

a normal situation and wont be until vaccine and other things happen

is it normal to shut down non football threads when the season starts

never seen that before

now if you object to politics being discussed thats fine just issue a directive against that topic but dont shut down threads

let them die naturally like normal
don't worry, this thread will be replaced

same discussion and  players, just a different, more accurate title
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 18, 2020, 04:00:26 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/UuYivgF.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 18, 2020, 04:07:34 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/UuYivgF.jpg)
Man, there are many stupid stories and then there’s that stupid story.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 18, 2020, 04:09:04 PM
Man, there are many stupid stories and then there’s that stupid story.
How is it a stupid story? You strike me as someone who just cheers for team blue no matter what. 

Notice how Biden nor his father are denying the authenticity of the emails. Weird.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 18, 2020, 04:20:11 PM
Nobody talks about the deficit.
Because both parties are complicit in exploding it. Although, I'll say that in less than the last 20 years alone we've had 9/11, Iraq War, Financial Collapse of 2008-2009, and COVID. All huge contributing factors to an exploding deficit. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 18, 2020, 05:12:26 PM
How is it a stupid story? You strike me as someone who just cheers for team blue no matter what.

Notice how Biden nor his father are denying the authenticity of the emails. Weird.
Nah, I think team blue does some bad and stupid stuff. 

I think it's stupid because I don't think laptops are being left at shops willy-nilly. So of this relatively small set of lost laptops, one happens to be the highly newsworthy son of a presidential candidate? And it was held in secret right up until the end? Seems mighty far fetched.

I assume some of his stuff was hacked. I've not seem much that makes me believe the voracity of all this stuff being 100 percent (I don't strongly believe it to be fake, but I just am in the vast wasteland of "I don't know"). That it needs to be couched in this "computer repair shop" raised my skepticism highly. I mean, the smoking gun is what, a sketchy person thanking another sketchy person for inviting them to a meeting?

Much noise, don't see. Much there there. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 18, 2020, 05:13:45 PM
Because both parties are complicit in exploding it. Although, I'll say that in less than the last 20 years alone we've had 9/11, Iraq War, Financial Collapse of 2008-2009, and COVID. All huge contributing factors to an exploding deficit.
This is accurate. We're so locked into certain things that no one wants to eat the bullet and cut/raise funds. And now the world economy is going to take a hit when we stop borrowing money. It's not good. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 18, 2020, 05:14:42 PM
Because both parties are complicit in exploding it. Although, I'll say that in less than the last 20 years alone we've had 9/11, Iraq War, Financial Collapse of 2008-2009, and COVID. All huge contributing factors to an exploding deficit.
9/11 - Bush
Iraq War - ongoing, initiated by Bush for no reason
Financial Collapse - Bush
COVID - Trump

Just noting how these things have been caused and stewarded by both sides, like you said.  I assume the $1 trillion+ tax break slipped your mind.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 18, 2020, 05:17:25 PM
Nah, I think team blue does some bad and stupid stuff.

I think it's stupid because I don't think laptops are being left at shops willy-nilly. So of this relatively small set of lost laptops, one happens to be the highly newsworthy son of a presidential candidate? And it was held in secret right up until the end? Seems mighty far fetched.

I assume some of his stuff was hacked. I've not seem much that makes me believe the voracity of all this stuff being 100 percent (I don't strongly believe it to be fake, but I just am in the vast wasteland of "I don't know"). That it needs to be couched in this "computer repair shop" raised my skepticism highly. I mean, the smoking gun is what, a sketchy person thanking another sketchy person for inviting them to a meeting?

Much noise, don't see. Much there there.
what about the FBI involvement in this

If its true they had this laptop during the impeachment hearings

thats real bad
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 18, 2020, 05:18:51 PM
9/11 - Bush
Iraq War - ongoing, initiated by Bush for no reason
Financial Collapse - Bush
COVID - Trump

Just noting how these things have been caused and stewarded by both sides, like you said.
so Trump was the cause of covid?

amazing
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 18, 2020, 05:21:01 PM
so Trump was the cause of covid?

amazing
Not at all.  I have no idea how you pulled that from my post.  He happened to be the president during it.  


Google "steward".  Sheesh.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 18, 2020, 05:23:23 PM
Nah, I think team blue does some bad and stupid stuff.

I think it's stupid because I don't think laptops are being left at shops willy-nilly. So of this relatively small set of lost laptops, one happens to be the highly newsworthy son of a presidential candidate? And it was held in secret right up until the end? Seems mighty far fetched.

I assume some of his stuff was hacked. I've not seem much that makes me believe the voracity of all this stuff being 100 percent (I don't strongly believe it to be fake, but I just am in the vast wasteland of "I don't know"). That it needs to be couched in this "computer repair shop" raised my skepticism highly. I mean, the smoking gun is what, a sketchy person thanking another sketchy person for inviting them to a meeting?

Much noise, don't see. Much there there.
There has been no denials that this was Biden Junior’s laptop. You do realize that don’t you?

And you do realize that “held in secret” was by the FBI correct?

The ultimate irony of course is it a strongly appears that Biden is 10 times more guilty of the unproven crime they try to impeach Trump for. 

And the fact that the media is completely covering it up. That’s why even people like me who don’t like trump at all can’t cast a vote in this election because the other side is just as bad if not worse.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 18, 2020, 05:24:08 PM
Not at all.  I have no idea how you pulled that from my post.  He happened to be the president during it. 


Google "steward".  Sheesh.
well OAM you did say "caused and stewarded" so I guess I leaped to conclusions
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 18, 2020, 05:25:15 PM
well OAM you did say "caused and stewarded" so I guess I leaped to conclusions
No you didn’t. He is a part of the two false narratives that belong in the Hall of Fame a false narratives. And of course number one is that the worldwide pandemic was invented in trumps laboratory LOL. Remember this is the same idiot who claims there’s no evidence that the virus even came from China. You can’t argue with stupid.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 18, 2020, 05:26:54 PM
Your dishonesty is revealing.  Keep it up.


Putting words in my mouth and flat out lying about what I posted doesn't work.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 18, 2020, 05:33:04 PM
9/11 - Bush
Iraq War - ongoing, initiated by Bush for no reason
Financial Collapse - Bush
COVID - Trump

Just noting how these things have been caused and stewarded by both sides, like you said.
Yeah, you just show your lack of knowledge every time you post on things like this.

Bin Laden first attacked the US in 1993. Clinton had 8 years in office to hunt and capture/kill the guy. Somehow Bush Jr. was suppose to do what he couldn't in almost a decade in less than 8 months time. Makes sense. Not.

The Iraq War is definitely on Bush Jr.- but the President cannot go to war without a declaration of war from Congress. Guess what! Lots of Democrats like HILLARY CLINTON AND JOE BIDEN voted for that war! They have to take some of the responsibility and they have blood on their hands too. Too deny this is pure idiocy.

The Financial collapse had almost nothing to do with Bush Jr and was set into motion way before it was ever a thought in his brain to run for President. Years before. You can thank in large part, Bill Clinton and his crack-team of economic advisors like Larry Summers. The same Larry Summers who is now advising Joe freaking Biden.

You really need to get a new shtick. And educate yourself a little more buddy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 18, 2020, 05:39:42 PM
Nah, I think team blue does some bad and stupid stuff.

I think it's stupid because I don't think laptops are being left at shops willy-nilly. So of this relatively small set of lost laptops, one happens to be the highly newsworthy son of a presidential candidate? And it was held in secret right up until the end? Seems mighty far fetched.

I assume some of his stuff was hacked. I've not seem much that makes me believe the voracity of all this stuff being 100 percent (I don't strongly believe it to be fake, but I just am in the vast wasteland of "I don't know"). That it needs to be couched in this "computer repair shop" raised my skepticism highly. I mean, the smoking gun is what, a sketchy person thanking another sketchy person for inviting them to a meeting?

Much noise, don't see. Much there there.
Biden, Hunter Biden, nor anyone in the Biden campaign has come out and denied the emails are false. This should be very eye opening to anyone following this. The easiest thing in the world to do is say the emails aren't real. They aren't doing this.

The shop owner apparently has just released emails from a lawyer claiming to represent Biden asking for the laptops back. It's FAR more plausible that Hunter Biden went on a bender and dropped the laptops off and just forgot about them than it is Russia hatched this entire thing.

In case you haven't noticed, the NSA/CIA/FBI have completely infiltrated the US mainstream media. You want to talk about disinformation? The greatest disinformation campaigns in world history have been run by the NSA/CIA. The same NSA/CIA that now has former employees as consultants on every major news network. The fact that "news" organizations hire these clowns and pay them to come on tv and spew bullshit, man if that doesn't scare the living shit out of people, well...it should.

MSM has always been a mouth-piece for the establishment and the status quo. Look no further than the Iraq War/WMD's, Assad gas attacks in Syria, or Russia Russia Russia Russia. It's way worse now than it has ever been. And I believe this is because of the advent of the internet. They have to pushback harder than ever because the internet has allowed an open transfer and flow of information. It's so bad- and they don't even hide it anymore.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 18, 2020, 05:55:49 PM
Aww, the man who inherited a lot of money and plays a bad imitation of a rich guy on TV got you convinced he's a real smart businessman. He managed to turn hundreds of millions into needing to borrow money from his family.

He's a snake, a ganef and almost assuredly involved in money laundering (it turns out most NY real estate development is). But he is good at making people think he's rich and then putting his name on garbage that people will buy, so I'll give him full credit for that.
I get it, you don't like him. I'm not particularly a big fan of his either, but to deny that he's rich or that he's not smart- seems- well....dumb. Because he is most definitely very rich- too deny this is just stupid- and he obviously has intelligence or he wouldn't have gotten to where he's at in life. Lots of guys have inherited lots of money. Not all of them have become world-wide celebrities (which he has been since the 1980's) or President of the United States. He's a master bullshit artist and he's got a great knack for public relations and salesmenship.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 18, 2020, 05:56:43 PM
All this goes to show how Area 51 spiraled down into a cess pool of name calling and ridiculous posts.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 18, 2020, 05:57:31 PM
As for Trump's net worth, it is very possible, perhaps likely, that at times it is negative.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 18, 2020, 06:02:36 PM
In revenue? How so?
Many of his properties are bleeding because of canceled tournmanets/sponsorhips/charity events/boycotts ever since his running/becoming president- in large part due to his rants on twitter and at his public speaking rallies against Mexicans and illegals. His country club/golf/hotel & resort in Doral- which is a suburb of Miami where mostly rich hispanics live- has taken a nose dive in revenues because of this. The PGA terminated a tournament there which brought that property millions in revenue a year- only to move it to- Mexico. So go figure. And it's not just that one property- many of his properties have taken a hit. 

When you're running a business or the owner/face of a business- yeah it's a lot better to keep your mouth shut and be a politically correct hack. He obviously hasn't done this.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 18, 2020, 06:02:59 PM
His name is the only consistent source of revenue he had. He's always been in various stages of financial trouble, being president has helped him stave off creditors.
This simply isn't true. I suggest you do some more research on this. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 18, 2020, 06:04:43 PM
I thought that post was about Hunter Biden.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 18, 2020, 06:06:40 PM
His presidency is the only thing keeping him afloat. Literally.
Lol. No. I'd say it's his considerable assets which have kept him afloat. Do you know how much Mar-A-Lago would go on the open market? Probably close to $100 million. Trump Tower in Manhattan? The dirt and air rights alone are probably worth over $500 million. He also owns 30% of the BoA building in San Fransisco. He owns almost 1,000 acres in Doral at his golf course. Do you have any idea what that is worth? Why don't you check out the commercial property values in South Florida. Lol. Any large national home builder like DR Horton or Lennar would pay stupid money for that land or even a large Florida-based regional like GL.

The guy has some primo assets. Believe it or not.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 18, 2020, 06:08:40 PM
As for Trump's net worth, it is very possible, perhaps likely, that at times it is negative.
I doubt it's negative. Depends on how leveraged he is. If we are to believe the report he's got about $400 million in mortgages- well he's A OK. Trump Tower alone is worth more than that on the open market.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 18, 2020, 06:13:18 PM
I doubt it's negative. Depends on how leveraged he is. If we are to believe the report he's got about $400 million in mortgages- well he's A OK. Trump Tower alone is worth more than that on the open market.
I merely noted it's possible for ANY real estate investor to have negative net worth at points in time.  I'd guess nearly all were there in 2009-2010.  He may well have much more than $400 million in loans, perhaps that figure is just what's due soon.

But, of course, banks simply refloat loans of that size.  

I know NYC real estate has dropped pretty hard of late, commercial, retail, and residential.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 18, 2020, 06:18:49 PM
I merely noted it's possible for ANY real estate investor to have negative net worth at points in time.  I'd guess nearly all were there in 2009-2010.  He may well have much more than $400 million in loans, perhaps that figure is just what's due soon.

But, of course, banks simply refloat loans of that size. 

I know NYC real estate has dropped pretty hard of late, commercial, retail, and residential. 
Well Florida real estate is off the charts. And Forbes estimated the value of Mar-Lago at $160 million in 2018. That is before the real estate market- especially the luxury market in Florida went on a rampage upwards due to COVID. Former JFK estate in Palm Beach, which is tiny in size compared to Mar-Lago just went for almost $80 million.

Wouldn't surprise me at all to see Mar-Lago get that kind of money in a private sale.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 18, 2020, 06:19:53 PM
We stopped by a sales office yesterday in our wonderings about that is next to a block sized development near us (one of several).  The sales folks were very "friendly" (duh) even though I explained we were just nosey neighbors.  


http://www.40west12th.com/

The least expensive unit is $865,000 for a 2 bedroom condo.

I think they have 64 units and claim they are selling fast (maybe).  I'm more than a bit concerned about the number of major projects going up near us.  They are all mixed use, meaning retail/office/residential.  The office expansion is a question for me as this city, like most, tends to over build just before a collapse.

When developments sit unfilled, obviously it hammers the bottom line, and property can lose a lot of paper value during that period.  We looked at one condo in Jacksonville that was offered at half the original price (it was still over $400 K) because they were being flogged to get the developer off the HOA expense and fill the building, which I'd guess had near negative value at the time (2010)?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 18, 2020, 06:21:02 PM
And I don't mean he has negative net worth NOW, I mean it's possible for that to have occurred at various points in time.  I don't know his financial situation obviously.  He could have valuable properties and even larger loans on them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on October 18, 2020, 06:24:18 PM
This simply isn't true. I suggest you do some more research on this.
It's challenging to do research on that because he deliberately makes his finances pretty opaque.  It's been reported his companies have over a billion dollars in debt, and he is personally responsible for loans of 421 million.  I don't know what the tally is, and yes, he certainly has assets.  But I sure as hell ain't believing anything he is saying about it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 18, 2020, 06:30:34 PM
All this goes to show how Area 51 spiraled down into a cess pool of name calling and ridiculous posts.
Well if a Mod would wield the ban hammer on the swamp thing the pool would cease being cess
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 18, 2020, 06:33:16 PM
It's challenging to do research on that because he deliberately makes his finances pretty opaque.  It's been reported his companies have over a billion dollars in debt, and he is personally responsible for loans of 421 million.  I don't know what the tally is, and yes, he certainly has assets.  But I sure as hell ain't believing anything he is saying about it.
His company is a private company. It is not publicly traded. There would be no reason for us to know the finances of the company. How many private companies open up their books? Yeah, like none. 

Even if his private company has a billion in debt (which I doubt) - as long as they bring in enough revenue to service the debt- no problem. And the $421 million in mortgage payments due is not a big deal when you look at the assets. And as Cincy said- he ain't you or me. Every single bank he's got those mortgages with will refinance them in the drop of a hat- regardless of if he was the President or not. 

Much ado about nothing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 18, 2020, 06:35:53 PM
There has been no denials that this was Biden Junior’s laptop. You do realize that don’t you?

And you do realize that “held in secret” was by the FBI correct?

I realize both those things. Neither particularly sways my opinion that the magic laptop theory with a deeply banal smoking gun seems generally stupid. 

I'm much more fascinated in the leaving of laptops places. Like if that's real, that's bananas. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 18, 2020, 06:38:28 PM
Biden's and Trump's relations with the Ukraine is nothing new.  This is how politics have worked for decades if not centuries or forever

it's sad, but it's really no big deal in my mind

if it was a big deal, it wouldn't be such a common occurrence
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 18, 2020, 06:40:18 PM
thank God!
Can't believe OAM slithered past w/o wagging his tongue at such a primitive premise
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 18, 2020, 06:42:39 PM
he can ignore God, just wish he would ignore Trump
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 18, 2020, 06:43:30 PM
I realize both those things. Neither particularly sways my opinion that the magic laptop theory with a deeply banal smoking gun seems generally stupid.

I'm much more fascinated in the leaving of laptops places. Like if that's real, that's bananas.
A crack-head drug addict going on a bender and getting high and then dropping a laptop into water damaging it and then dropping it off to get fixed at a repair shop in Delaware- and then goes to rehab and forgets all about it- seems a hell of a lot more likely to me than- RUSSIA DID IT. LOL.


What are you even saying? Of course repair shops exist. Especially in small little shithole towns in Delaware where there isn't an Apple store or Best Buy for 500 miles- which is where most people would go. Those don't exist in small towns. You know what does? Mom and Pop repair shops.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 18, 2020, 06:45:24 PM
Biden, Hunter Biden, nor anyone in the Biden campaign has come out and denied the emails are false. This should be very eye opening to anyone following this. The easiest thing in the world to do is say the emails aren't real. They aren't doing this.

The shop owner apparently has just released emails from a lawyer claiming to represent Biden asking for the laptops back. It's FAR more plausible that Hunter Biden went on a bender and dropped the laptops off and just forgot about them than it is Russia hatched this entire thing.
A political campaign not trying to give oxygen to a story right before the election? Crazy talk.

I have friends who work in PR. Orgs generally don't say anything until they have to for a range of reasons. And the main reason here is to go one the record for people who don't believe it. 

In three weeks, it'll either matter or it won't, maybe. If the old guy wins, it'll maybe be a sign the push was effective. If the new (and also older) guy wins, it'll be a fart in the wind until it becomes a maybe real congressional investigation. C'est la vie

(This is not to say the family isn't shady or dirty, but that this whole thumb headed rollout fills me with the skepticism)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 18, 2020, 06:46:52 PM
Biden's and Trump's relations with the Ukraine is nothing new.  This is how politics have worked for decades if not centuries or forever

it's sad, but it's really no big deal in my mind

if it was a big deal, it wouldn't be such a common occurrence
Yeah as far as I can tell, none of Trump's kids were getting $83,000 A MONTH to serve on the board of a Ukrainian gas company all while Daddy was in charge of US policy in that country- and trying to trade access to Daddy for more money. Remember- Hunter was getting like $50k and change a month at first, and then asked for more money because of access to Daddy. And Burisma gave it to him.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 18, 2020, 06:50:52 PM
A political campaign not trying to give oxygen to a story right before the election? Crazy talk.

I have friends who work in PR. Orgs generally don't say anything until they have to for a range of reasons. And the main reason here is to go one the record for people who don't believe it.

In three weeks, it'll either matter or it won't, maybe. If the old guy wins, it'll maybe be a sign the push was effective. If the new (and also older) guy wins, it'll be a fart in the wind until it becomes a maybe real congressional investigation. C'est la vie

(This is not to say the family isn't shady or dirty, but that this whole thumb headed rollout fills me with the skepticism)
Yeah, no. The easiest thing in the world to make it go away is a strong denial that they are real are to let everyone read them. Instead- the censorship spree Facebook, Twitter, and now the mainstream media going off the rails and covering for Biden- and Biden, Hunter, or the campaign refusing to flatly state the emails are fakes- is what has kept this thing going and given it oxygen.

If you'll remember back in 2016- Hillary campaign tried to deny the WikiLeak email dumps as authentic almost immediately. Problem is- WikiLeaks immediately called their bluff and dumped all the metadata proving the emails were real.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 18, 2020, 06:56:58 PM
A crack-head drug addict going on a bender and getting high and then dropping a laptop into water damaging it and then dropping it off to get fixed at a repair shop in Delaware- and then goes to rehab and forgets all about it- seems a hell of a lot more likely to me than- RUSSIA DID IT. LOL.


What are you even saying? Of course repair shops exist. Especially in small little shithole towns in Delaware where there isn't an Apple store or Best Buy for 500 miles- which is where most people would go. Those don't exist in small towns. You know what does? Mom and Pop repair shops.
I meant like just leaving them for dead, not leaving them at a place for the short term. Like the idea that even if the guy was stupid hammered drunk that he wandered off with three laptops and no one could figure out how to get them back for months on end. But that bolded part had me chuckling. 

I thought the blue staters were supposed to be out of touch. 

Wilmington Delaware has a Best Buy. It's also basically a suburb of Philly, sitting a 30 minute-drive away. And these are Macs, so most people just send them to Apple. And there's an Apple Store at a mall in the suburbs. 500 miles? Now my friend, that is a hilarious thing to say. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 18, 2020, 07:07:02 PM
I meant like just leaving them for dead, not leaving them at a place for the short term. Like the idea that even if the guy was stupid hammered drunk that he wandered off with three laptops and no one could figure out how to get them back for months on end. But that bolded part had me chuckling.

I thought the blue staters were supposed to be out of touch.

Wilmington Delaware has a Best Buy. It's also basically a suburb of Philly, sitting a 30 minute-drive away. And these are Macs, so most people just send them to Apple. And there's an Apple Store at a mall in the suburbs. 500 miles? Now my friend, that is a hilarious thing to say.
Lol. So sorry. I'm not familiar with Delaware.

Anyway, my point still stands. I think it's more likely that the crack-head dropped them off and forgot about them than RUSSIA DID IT! That's the new automatic response for everything these days that is damaging to a corrupt Democrat- RUSSIA DID IT! Give. Me. A. Break. Could not careless who did it. All I care about is this- are the emails authentic. And from what it looks like- they are. And the emails/texts seem to show that Hunter was setting up deals to pay not only himself but get Daddy paid as well. Senile Joe and Hunter should both have a full blown investigation done as to their crimes. They won't though.

And by the way, I've personally done this with an iPad pro that was smashed to shit. Apple wouldn't fix it, basically said I have to buy a new one. I took it to a repair shop, dropped it off and completely forgot about it. Completely forgot. No bullshit. I might've had some sex videos on it with my girl at the time or some dick pics, but no emails or other incriminating evidence that showed I used my daddy's role/connections in government to enrich myself. Thankfully.

Oh yeah, by the way when it comes to water damage- Apple basically tells you to fuck off and buy a new one. I did this with an iPhone. They wouldn't repair it. They don't do that. They only replace if you have AppleCare+ and they repair broken screens/glass. Water damage? Buy a new one. Not sure on their laptop policy- but if it's water damage- probably same.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 18, 2020, 07:32:12 PM
as I said earlier what role does the FBI play in this

did they in fact have that laptop during the impeachment hearing

to me thats a bigger story then the laptop itself
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 18, 2020, 07:33:50 PM
he can ignore God, just wish he would ignore Trump
It's easy to ignore what doesn't exist...harder to ignore what does.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 18, 2020, 07:34:22 PM
All this goes to show how Area 51 spiraled down into a cess pool of name calling and ridiculous posts.
This board is Area 51 light.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 18, 2020, 07:35:16 PM
Well if a Mod would wield the ban hammer on the swamp thing the pool would cease being cess
One poster does not a cesspool make, friend.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 18, 2020, 07:49:51 PM
Lol. So sorry. I'm not familiar with Delaware.

Anyway, my point still stands. I think it's more likely that the crack-head dropped them off and forgot about them than RUSSIA DID IT! That's the new automatic response for everything these days that is damaging to a corrupt Democrat- RUSSIA DID IT! Give. Me. A. Break. Could not careless who did it. All I care about is this- are the emails authentic. And from what it looks like- they are. And the emails/texts seem to show that Hunter was setting up deals to pay not only himself but get Daddy paid as well. Senile Joe and Hunter should both have a full blown investigation done as to their crimes. They won't though.

And by the way, I've personally done this with an iPad pro that was smashed to shit. Apple wouldn't fix it, basically said I have to buy a new one. I took it to a repair shop, dropped it off and completely forgot about it. Completely forgot. No bullshit. I might've had some sex videos on it with my girl at the time or some dick pics, but no emails or other incriminating evidence that showed I used my daddy's role/connections in government to enrich myself. Thankfully.

Oh yeah, by the way when it comes to water damage- Apple basically tells you to fuck off and buy a new one. I did this with an iPhone. They wouldn't repair it. They don't do that. They only replace if you have AppleCare+ and they repair broken screens/glass. Water damage? Buy a new one. Not sure on their laptop policy- but if it's water damage- probably same.
I mean, if you're going to tell me about how mom and pop shops work in mid-sized cities, I kinda expect some feel for cities that size or geography. Shoot, 500 miles can get you from Miami to South Carolina. 

Everything about the bolded is weird and uncomfortable and leaves me skeptical. (I also don't totally believe the Russia angle, just seems like some tumbheaded dirty tricks)

Anywho. I don't begrudge you believing it. I might not and I might think is a deeply goofy story, but I don't begrudge someone getting into a story I find goofy. Life is too short. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 18, 2020, 07:57:17 PM
I mean, if you're going to tell me about how mom and pop shops work in mid-sized cities, I kinda expect some feel for cities that size or geography. Shoot, 500 miles can get you from Miami to South Carolina.

Everything about the bolded is weird and uncomfortable and leaves me skeptical. (I also don't totally believe the Russia angle, just seems like some tumbheaded dirty tricks)

Anywho. I don't begrudge you believing it. I might not and I might think is a deeply goofy story, but I don't begrudge someone getting into a story I find goofy. Life is too short.
True story. It happened. And I don’t care how it makes you feel. And I’m not a crack head who binges on drugs and alcohol like Hunter- and I forgot about a broken iPad device. I’m sure it’s possible the crack head did the same thing. Way more probable that happened than- RUSSIA DID IT!

Like I said, I don’t care about the story or of the how we got the emails. Literally could not careless. I only care about the emails/texts and contents of said emails/texts and whether they are authentic. I’ve read all that’s been published so far, and they seem legit. And the fact that Biden, Hunter, or no one in the Biden camp is contesting whether they are authentic or not- and in actually reading them- makes me think they are authentic. They actually make Joe Biden look like a loving, concerned Dad. Hunter clearly has issues. And they also show corruption that is disgusting. And quite frankly- these emails need to be verified by experts- and if they are real- both of these guys need to be under investigation. Asap.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 18, 2020, 08:04:28 PM
True story. It happened. And I don’t care how it makes you feel. And I’m not a crack head who binges on drugs and alcohol like Hunter- and I forgot about a broken iPad device. I’m sure it’s possible the crack head did the same thing. Way more probable that happened than- RUSSIA DID IT!

Like I said, I don’t care about the story or of the how we got the emails. Literally could not careless. I only care about the emails/texts and contents of said emails/texts and whether they are authentic. I’ve read all that’s been published so far, and they seem legit. And the fact that Biden, Hunter, or no one in the Biden camp is contesting whether they are authentic or not- and in actually reading them- makes me think they are authentic. They actually make Joe Biden look like a loving, concerned Dad. Hunter clearly has issues. And they also show corruption that is disgusting. And quite frankly- these emails need to be verified by experts- and if they are real- both of these guys need to be under investigation. Asap.
I'm sure you don't care how most folks feel. But honestly, I'm a little worried you're forgetting you one several-hundred dollar pieces of electronics, especially ones that might have compromising media. I'm told forgetfulness is a sign of something.

On the plus side, you'll get your wish. Even if those emails turn out to be unverified hogwash, they'll either be the basis of investigation regardless or the older guy won't be president. So you got a win-win there. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 18, 2020, 08:09:42 PM
I'm sure you don't care how most folks feel. But honestly, I'm a little worried you're forgetting you one several-hundred dollar pieces of electronics, especially ones that might have compromising media. I'm told forgetfulness is a sign of something.

On the plus side, you'll get your wish. Even if those emails turn out to be unverified hogwash, they'll either be the basis of investigation regardless or the older guy won't be president. So you got a win-win there.
thats when you learn how to replace the mother board yourself 

disassembly guides all over the internet
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 18, 2020, 08:23:09 PM
I'm sure you don't care how most folks feel. But honestly, I'm a little worried you're forgetting you one several-hundred dollar pieces of electronics, especially ones that might have compromising media. I'm told forgetfulness is a sign of something.

On the plus side, you'll get your wish. Even if those emails turn out to be unverified hogwash, they'll either be the basis of investigation regardless or the older guy won't be president. So you got a win-win there.
Yeah I’m a nobody, that can’t be black mailed and I have nothing to hide. Don’t care if there’s a couple dick pics and a sex video or two on the iPad. What’s the guy gonna do? Sell it to cnn? Lol. Literally don’t care. Dude probably just fixed the iPad, wiped it and I forgot about it completely so he sold it. Maybe he got $500 for it. Good for him. My bad for not going to get it.

It’s really easy. If they are completely bogus all Biden, Hunter, or the campaign would have to do is say they are fake. They aren’t doing that. In 2016, Hillary & Podesta went on the attack right away and claimed they were forgeries. Turns out they were real. Now those emails showed seriously shady behavior- but not all out crime. These Hunter Biden emails point to some potentially serious crimes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 18, 2020, 09:40:55 PM
The tech talk reminded me of this - the 25 year old teacher next door to me at work is all proud of her polaroid camera.  I see her later that day and she says, "it only took like 10 pictures and that's it" and I laughed.  


Vintage can = old and shitty
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 18, 2020, 10:04:21 PM
Tube amplifiers and turn tables are all the rage in high fi these days.

Of course, they are modern devices using old tech.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 18, 2020, 10:27:51 PM
Yeah I’m a nobody, that can’t be black mailed and I have nothing to hide. Don’t care if there’s a couple dick pics and a sex video or two on the iPad. What’s the guy gonna do? Sell it to cnn? Lol. Literally don’t care. Dude probably just fixed the iPad, wiped it and I forgot about it completely so he sold it. Maybe he got $500 for it. Good for him. My bad for not going to get it.

This story is neither growing less strange or more believable.

also, just about anyone can be blackmailed. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 18, 2020, 10:47:23 PM
This story is neither growing less strange or more believable.

also, just about anyone can be blackmailed.
100% true story. black mailed about what? some dick pics and a sex video? He could release it today and I honestly don't care.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 19, 2020, 06:42:38 AM
9/11 - Bush
Iraq War - ongoing, initiated by Bush for no reason
Financial Collapse - Bush
COVID - Trump

Just noting how these things have been caused and stewarded by both sides, like you said.  I assume the $1 trillion+ tax break slipped your mind.
Read this, and then tell me what you learned about who caused 2008.


https://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/30/business/fannie-mae-eases-credit-to-aid-mortgage-lending.html


Guess who was the HUD secretary at the time.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 19, 2020, 06:52:21 AM
This thread is going out with a bang.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 19, 2020, 07:15:16 AM
Years ago, political speech was allowed in the former site we used.  It got ugly, rather quickly.  People who had been cordial on line with fans of other schools, and their school, suddenly became enemies on all points.  They would snipe at each other about their own team.  Anything said was countered, whereas before they might have offered an alternative explanation for whatever, now suddenly there would be this vituperative argument.

So, it was banned.  And the board cleaned up, people went back to discussing sports rather amicably with the usual sports barbs thrown out mostly in good humor.

If you want a cess pool where you can say nearly everything, there is a site for that in spades.  If you want to focus on sports and cooking and beer and amicable discussion, this place is reserved for that.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 19, 2020, 07:53:23 AM
3 more days.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 19, 2020, 07:59:39 AM
Perfect thing to do in a pandemic, with so many people already stretch to their max. We keep asking what we should do differently, and this is IT!!



[font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif]Lightfoot considering property tax increase, city worker layoffs and gas tax hike as part of plan to close $1.2 billion budget gap: sources (http://nsl.chicagotribune.com/T/v60000017540b6f3d0a9c9fb6e966f4758/643557fddc4f4fc00000021ef3a0bcce/643557fd-dc4f-4fc0-8e17-1261c72f080b?__dU__=v0oQlZ2XmHtXiAyDQlJISNgMHTLUYKdjtZWFFXTte5I8s=&__F__=v0fUYvjHMDjRPMSh3tviDHXIoXcPxvDgUUCCPvXMWoX_0JoZLAZABQF4DINCUkhI2AwdMtRgp2O1mZSdqwJIe45AY3jibAyJdqUpRWJRm1RSFfbZCgQmRFQEQS3eXN-IIXxvPYaRRap1U8rGjHI9IejFAn2gPmU3fT5B5jsDbdRNwk-HH5h_fArWOhBOoC2VlmRDIRgFleMtantxWKRgxuPYlSJ-z_9Xem7-n1zmHLxDW0x7DdnId4c9pcmhjyC1L9SGBgtkC6Jp3f3orLj7IZM2NGCMZSJzX5MdLbbu-WpEhYZV-ivsFHpu1hrof7vdfenrJkL1mTMP152FFwttExn95xIbYpggynEtqzH7V9R7LR5ioBVv5FLa_HaaM2VLegGIKfn1No5ofGLfypOjV7SoAX5TGr1pN7HgfHKTiNqIseBQOJOU8aPxmgJIUGTBi7HsVaD9p-9vNlvbq1z7m6T_jMQXCs6ffTAAcrqkIJxFShAAsks0OaaA74P97rN_C9EOE3T6hSIyRFp0B5dGKYyw==)[/font]


https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/ct-chicago-city-budget-20201019-mz75coctozezdgxw2qhy2lmbte-story.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Daywatch&utm_content=911603104216#nws=true
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 19, 2020, 08:14:59 AM
Cities everywhere are in deep trouble with their budgets.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 19, 2020, 08:17:49 AM
They were in deep trouble even before this.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 19, 2020, 08:27:57 AM
Not as deep, and some cities were doing well.  Atlanta was riding pretty high before this happened.

I haven't heard much about city finances since other than that they had dipped into the rainy day fund heavily.

States are in trouble as well and 49 have to "balance their budget" somehow.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 19, 2020, 08:35:05 AM
One poster does not a cesspool make, friend.
Don't sell yourself short,tsunami
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 19, 2020, 08:37:44 AM
I rather dislike it when a poster calls another "friend" with a implied sarcastic note to it, but that's just me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 19, 2020, 09:51:47 AM
I'm easily amused 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 19, 2020, 11:15:48 AM
I rather dislike it when a poster calls another "friend" with a implied sarcastic note to it, but that's just me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRfKdNxIOcQ
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 19, 2020, 11:19:28 AM
Read this, and then tell me what you learned about who caused 2008.


https://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/30/business/fannie-mae-eases-credit-to-aid-mortgage-lending.html


Guess who was the HUD secretary at the time.
Yeah, he had no clue what he was talking about. As usual. Lol. 

There really isn’t a single person to blame for the financial collapse of 2008-2009. Lots of blame to go around. A great documentary to watch about this is called Inside Job, it’s narrated by Matt Damon. 

Larry Summers shares a big chunk of the blame as one of the architects of the conditions which caused the collapse. Same Larry Summers that is now advising Joe freaking Biden. 

It wasn’t just Clinton and the Democrats. Republicans are complicit as well. Most notably Phil Gramm, Jim Leach, and Thomas Blilely.

W had basically zero to do with it. OAM is like Jon Snow. He knows nothing.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 19, 2020, 11:20:50 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRfKdNxIOcQ
Maybe the greatest show in history of television. Certainly up there. Trey & Matt are freaking geniuses.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 19, 2020, 11:42:28 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRfKdNxIOcQ
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

well played!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 19, 2020, 11:54:46 AM
So the director of national intelligence- the very top intelligence official in the entire country- comes out today and debunks all the unsourced msm media reports saying the Hunter Biden laptop is a Russian scheme. Flat out said that is not true. 

Also- presidential debate commission ditches foreign policy as a topic in the debate- when it originally was suppose to be the main topic of the final debate. WEIRD. Now why would they do that? Hmmm.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 19, 2020, 12:00:34 PM
Years ago, political speech was allowed in the former site we used.  It got ugly, rather quickly.  People who had been cordial on line with fans of other schools, and their school, suddenly became enemies on all points.  They would snipe at each other about their own team.  Anything said was countered, whereas before they might have offered an alternative explanation for whatever, now suddenly there would be this vituperative argument.

So, it was banned.  And the board cleaned up, people went back to discussing sports rather amicably with the usual sports barbs thrown out mostly in good humor.

If you want a cess pool where you can say nearly everything, there is a site for that in spades.  If you want to focus on sports and cooking and beer and amicable discussion, this place is reserved for that.
well before this thread closes I just wanted to leave you with these final thoughts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LohPrTk98mY
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 19, 2020, 12:15:19 PM
Life is easier when everything BAD is because of the OTHER political party (or team), and whatever is good is because of YOUR guys.

Life is harder when one realizes both sides do bad things, and occasionally perhaps stumble across something half decent, maybe.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 19, 2020, 12:35:49 PM
If California actually does ban sale of new cars that are not electric in 2035, might the stock of car repair and part and used car sales be decent investments?

I could see a lot of demand for 3 year old off lease IC cars.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 19, 2020, 02:06:36 PM
If California actually does ban sale of new cars that are not electric in 2035, might the stock of car repair and part and used car sales be decent investments?

I could see a lot of demand for 3 year old off lease IC cars.
If leprechauns are real, and they unload all their pots o' gold on the open market, it'll crater gold prices.

So a good investment strategy to short gold futures...

Because it's about as likely as California actually banning ICE by 2035.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 19, 2020, 02:08:05 PM
midwest folks just love to pull used cars out of Cali

no rust, no ice melt on the roads out there
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 19, 2020, 02:10:13 PM
I think CA could well ban all but EVs by 2035 for new car sales.  Trucks maybe not.

Norway is over 50% EVs for new cars today, they get significant tax and toll breaks.  If you think about a Tesla today versus whatever existed 15 years ago, it's pretty substantial progress.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 19, 2020, 03:21:11 PM
If leprechauns are real, and they unload all their pots o' gold on the open market, it'll crater gold prices.

So a good investment strategy to short gold futures...

Because it's about as likely as California actually banning ICE by 2035.
California will be a failed state by 2035, so it doesn’t even matter. Millions of people are fleeing that homeless, burning shit hole.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 19, 2020, 03:41:47 PM
California will be a failed state by 2035, so it doesn’t even matter. Millions of people are fleeing that homeless, burning shit hole.
California's population grows, year over year. 

While it's true that California does experience net domestic migration out of the state, it's more than made up via births and immigration. (Note: before claiming it's a flood of illegals, only about 23% of California's immigrant population is illegal and now the largest share of our incoming immigrants are Asian, not from Latin America.)

I've got my issues with California, and I may even leave if given the opportunity to be utee's neighbor. And we do have some issues with the homeless and with wildfires. But to call it a homeless, burning shit hole is simply ignorant of this state. People live here because despite our problems, it's still pretty great. 

California's population growth has been positive every year since 1900, which Michigan can say. In those years California's population growth has consistently been higher as a percentage year-to-year than Michigan's. I could easily make the argument that California is a much better place to live than a shithole like Michigan as a result... 

https://www.macrotrends.net/states/california/population

https://www.macrotrends.net/states/michigan/population
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 19, 2020, 03:44:58 PM
MDot lives in Florida. He got out of his shithole just like I got out of mine. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 19, 2020, 03:56:23 PM
MDot lives in Florida. He got out of his shithole just like I got out of mine. :)
He only moved to Florida because hot latinas don't want to live in Michigan, and certainly don't wear bikinis when they do :57:

I don't think Florida is for me, and I'm not going to call it a shithole. But there is a reason that "Florida man" is basically a meme at this point... 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 19, 2020, 04:05:56 PM
I like California, a lot.  The taxes keep me from living there.  The folks who badmouth it usually are reacting from selective TV scenes which show the worst of the state.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 19, 2020, 04:06:36 PM
The middle of Florida is a lot like the middle of most states - Cali included.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 19, 2020, 04:09:46 PM
MDot lives in Florida. He got out of his shithole just like I got out of mine. :)
Yep. Best state ever. Wouldn’t live anywhere else. Michigan sucks lol. Detroit- a once great city that was the richest city in the world and the 4th most populous city in the US- is now not even top 10 most populated, broke as shit, and is a crime infested, insanely corrupt, poorly run shithole. In large part thanks to....democrats! But hey, they’re the black lives matter party who care about black people. #YouAintBlack!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 19, 2020, 04:16:23 PM
The middle of Florida is a lot like the middle of most states - Cali included.
I think Florida is a lot like California in that depending on where you are, it could feel like as many as 4-6 different states "culturally". I'm sure Florabama doesn't feel even remotely the same as the Miami metro, which is completely different than Jacksonville, and all of those are nothing like the center of the state. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 19, 2020, 04:24:52 PM
The middle of Florida is a lot like the middle of most states - Cali included.
Yeah it’s a shit hole. Can’t beat the coasts though. I like vacationing on the coast in the panhandle. Wouldn’t live anywhere else but the southeast coast though.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 19, 2020, 06:02:22 PM
California has mountains.  And wine.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on October 19, 2020, 06:04:50 PM
Speaking of beaches booked a condo in Nags Head over the summer.  Didn't really go anywhere this year so needed to plan a vacation. I guess I went to the Outer Banks when I was a little kid but haven't been there since. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 19, 2020, 06:07:01 PM
California has FOXES!



(https://media0.giphy.com/media/26uf5IMpBAg86dJ5u/source.gif)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 19, 2020, 06:10:19 PM
speaking of Florida real estate values..............

The former Anheuser-Busch estate in Fort Lauderdale has come on the market for $19.25 million.

Built in the 1930s for the Anheuser-Busch family, the waterfront home in Las Olas Isles — located where the New River and Intracoastal Waterway meet — has a long history.


Most recently, the property was purchased in 2014 by the Canadian TV personality and merchant banker Michael Wekerle, for $12.5 million.

Best-known as an investor on a Canadian show similar to “Shark Tank,” titled “Dragons' Den,” the businessman has decided to part with the home, because he can’t travel or bring his family to stay there thanks to the pandemic, according to the listing agent, Ruchel Coetzee of Douglas Elliman.


After Prohibition ended, the home was designed for the brewing dynasty by the architect Francis Abreu—apprentice of the famed South Florida architect Addison Mizner, according to the Wall Street Journal. Completed in 1938, the Busch family home was dubbed Manga Reva.

The Mediterranean-style compound was later used as a film location for some of the scenes in the 1960 comedy “Where the Boys Are,” about a group of college coeds who descend on Fort Lauderdale for their raucous spring break.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 19, 2020, 06:30:12 PM
California has mountains.  And wine.
Florida has the kind of mountains MDot likes.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 19, 2020, 07:05:00 PM
Florida has the kind of mountains MDot likes. 
Same with socal, and in both spots, they're bought and paid for.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 19, 2020, 07:12:00 PM
MDot lives in Florida. He got out of his shithole just like I got out of mine. :)
And you both moved to a fetid, swampy armpit filled with weirdos and psychopaths. Following the worn path of aging New Yorkers preparing for death. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 19, 2020, 08:58:28 PM
He only moved to Florida because hot latinas don't want to live in Michigan, and certainly don't wear bikinis when they do :57:

I don't think Florida is for me, and I'm not going to call it a shithole. But there is a reason that "Florida man" is basically a meme at this point...
Just stay within 30 miles of the coast at all times.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 19, 2020, 08:59:09 PM
When I got my 2018 hatchback 2 years ago, I felt the assumption that it could be the last gas-powered car I ever got.  Maybe, maybe not, but the thought occurred to me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 19, 2020, 08:59:26 PM
yup, stay away from Orlando
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 19, 2020, 09:00:29 PM
I'm still thinking I'll never own a Japanese or electric vehicle
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 19, 2020, 09:17:11 PM
We have a 2018 GTI Autobahn, for the US, made in Mexico ...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 19, 2020, 09:23:56 PM
I'm still thinking I'll never own a Japanese or electric vehicle
Japanese? You don't like reliability? 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 19, 2020, 09:28:01 PM
my chevy is dependable enough

and costs less to purchase and maintain
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 19, 2020, 09:31:58 PM
California has mountains. And wine.
Not a big wine guy. Or alcohol or drugs for that matter. I like to have control of my facilities at all times. Humans were meant to stay on the ground. I don’t do mountains. Sorry. I’ll stay right on the ground, where humans belong thank you very much. 

Florida has cleaner air, way better beaches, way hotter women, and way lower taxes. Florida also has better weather. Never gets cold here. California can get chilly, even sunny SoCal.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 19, 2020, 09:34:34 PM
my chevy is dependable enough

and costs less to purchase and maintain
I get that. Better than buying German. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 19, 2020, 09:35:48 PM
And you both moved to a fetid, swampy armpit filled with weirdos and psychopaths. Following the worn path of aging New Yorkers preparing for death.
There are weirdos and psychos everywhere these days. Meh. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 19, 2020, 09:38:46 PM
Same with socal, and in both spots, they're bought and paid for.
More of an ass man. And not the fake ones. Sunny South Florida has shit tons of Brazilian, Venezuelan, & Colombian with real ones. Hispanics in SoCal are mostly Mexican. I find most Mexican women to be on the ugly side, whereas most women from those other 3 countries tend to be more on the ridiculously hot side. Just my two cents.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 19, 2020, 09:40:58 PM
I get that. Better than buying German.
German cars are better engineered and built cars for sure, but like any car- they require maintenance and they breakdown too. And they cost three times as much if not more to fix and maintain. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 19, 2020, 09:42:18 PM
German cars are better engineered and built cars for sure, but like any car- they require maintenance and they breakdown too. And they cost three times as much if not more to fix and maintain.
They break down at a higher rate than American or Japanese cars, and cost more to maintain when they do. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 19, 2020, 11:21:21 PM
I have a friend that continuously insists on buying Volkswagens of all things.  Passat, I think.  He has to buy a new one every 3 years because they spend so much time in the shop.  Yet instead of thinking-- hey, these cars suck and probably shouldn't be in the shop all the time-- he just replaces the old shitbox with a new one and assumes it'll be better because it's new.  Very strange.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: DevilFroggy on October 19, 2020, 11:25:51 PM
I used to work at a Mercedes dealership and made friends with a few of the mechanics. I they enjoyed their jobs and spoke highly of the performance aspect of the cars they repaired but rarely spoke highly of their reliability. They didn't mind, it kept them employed and busy but that was my main takeaway from our lunch room chats.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 20, 2020, 12:24:45 AM
I have a friend that continuously insists on buying Volkswagens of all things.  Passat, I think.  He has to buy a new one every 3 years because they spend so much time in the shop.  Yet instead of thinking-- hey, these cars suck and probably shouldn't be in the shop all the time-- he just replaces the old shitbox with a new one and assumes it'll be better because it's new.  Very strange. 
Take that back Buster I have a 2002 Passat for Bumpin' around town.A friend basically rebuilt it for his son away at school.10 months in no problems
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 20, 2020, 07:53:54 AM
There are weirdos and psychos everywhere these days. Meh.
Florida man hold the belt. Holds it with pride. 

(I’m mostly joking. As we’ve said, describing this or that state as good or bad is mostly a misnomer)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2020, 08:16:12 AM
I like the 2 Mercedes parked in my garage in coastal Florida.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 20, 2020, 08:21:16 AM
I don't know you anymore
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on October 20, 2020, 08:33:45 AM
I thoroughly enjoy driving my A6, but it is annoying as can be when it takes a part 2 weeks to arrive.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2020, 08:39:42 AM
I like the 2 Mercedes parked in my garage in coastal Florida.
I might have one in my garage someday, but it'll be 4 or 5 or 8 years old and not cost a fortune
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2020, 08:43:20 AM
I really think nearly every new car sold today in the US is "reliable".  For me, it's not an issue.  And yes, I think some could be "more reliable" but it's not significant.

Or maybe I've had good luck with cars, the last one had only one major issue with the tires, they were too low profile (35s) and run flats and they did not do well with bumps.  That was a major reason I traded it (a long with its size).  Caddy gave me a warranty for free on the tires, which cost $440 each and I think we had three replaced inside a year on that warranty.  And only Pirelli made run flats in that size.  I looked at changing the wheels to 18 inchers and other tires.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2020, 08:51:25 AM
I'm looking at putting a set of Pirelli SCORPION ALL TERRAIN PLUS 275/55R20 snow tires on my truck by the end of the month.

winter is coming

first dusting of snow yesterday
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2020, 09:35:38 AM
They are called "winter tires" now, usually, and they are amazingly effective at low temperatures.

We also have "summer tires" that are great above about 45°F and terrible below that figure.

All seasons are a compromise.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 20, 2020, 10:06:10 AM
I'm looking at putting a set of Pirelli SCORPION ALL TERRAIN PLUS 275/55R20 snow tires on my truck by the end of the month.

winter is coming

first dusting of snow yesterday


Gather thy snow chains... 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2020, 10:12:07 AM
I have two sets of wheels, one for each season here in Iowa
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2020, 10:17:07 AM
I'm looking at putting a set of Pirelli SCORPION ALL TERRAIN PLUS 275/55R20 snow tires on my truck by the end of the month.

winter is coming

first dusting of snow yesterday
I just got rid of those scorpions on my wife's SUV. They are terrible tires. Continental does not make that size for her, so I went Michelin. It rides great.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2020, 10:21:19 AM
Nearly all the high performance cars use some Michelin tire.  They have some excellent technology (for a French company).

Others could be better for off road tires of course.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2020, 10:52:36 AM
Just got new Continentals on my car a few months ago. I absolutely love them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 20, 2020, 10:58:22 AM
I might have one in my garage someday, but it'll be 4 or 5 or 8 years old and not cost a fortune
You can buy Badge's hand me downs I'm sure he'll cut you a deal.With the money you save you can buy a house in 94s neighborhood
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 20, 2020, 11:00:16 AM
Does everyone in the north who owns a car have to have 2 sets of tires one for the summer and one for the winter?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2020, 11:01:14 AM
I bought my 2014 in 2016 and I bought the 2015 in 2018. They are already hand-me-downs.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2020, 11:01:51 AM
Does everyone in the north who owns a car have to have 2 sets of tires one for the summer and one for the winter?
Nope. Fearless is pretty rural so I can see the need. I never did need them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 20, 2020, 11:03:57 AM
Does everyone in the north who owns a car have to have 2 sets of tires one for the summer and one for the winter?

They last twice as long, since they are only being used for half of the year. So it all evens out. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2020, 11:08:16 AM
Does everyone in the north who owns a car have to have 2 sets of tires one for the summer and one for the winter?
no, but they should if they drive on snow and ice
most don't
they try to get by on all-season tires

it's fine if they leave the car or SUV or truck in the garage when there's a blizzard, but you know how that goes
I used to do much more hunting, ice fishing, trapping, snowmobiling, off-road driving, not much anymore.  I don't need the REAL aggressive off-road tires, but something better than all-season 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2020, 11:10:58 AM
I just got rid of those scorpions on my wife's SUV. They are terrible tires. Continental does not make that size for her, so I went Michelin. It rides great.
what was terrible about them?  I'm looking for something inexpensive (as usual) that does well on snow and ice.  They get the snowflake rating from Tire Rack.

not too concerned with ride or noise level
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 20, 2020, 11:19:53 AM

I used to do much more hunting, ice fishing, trapping, snowmobiling, off-road driving, not much anymore. 
Damn ain't that the truth
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2020, 11:24:43 AM
Damn ain't that the truth
getting old....


and the man keeping me down
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 20, 2020, 11:26:24 AM
I'm looking at putting a set of Pirelli SCORPION ALL TERRAIN PLUS 275/55R20 snow tires on my truck by the end of the month.

winter is coming

first dusting of snow yesterday
The final pieces of my lift kit are due to arrive today. That'll be a project to install (need to buy a floor jack, some jack stands, and a 1/2" torque wrench and then watch a whole bunch of Youtube to figure out what I'm doing).

After that, the next big project will be to replace the stock 32" tires and wheels with some 35s. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 20, 2020, 11:45:37 AM
getting old....


and the man keeping me down
Damn ain't that the truth.;D
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2020, 12:16:19 PM
what was terrible about them?  I'm looking for something inexpensive (as usual) that does well on snow and ice.  They get the snowflake rating from Tire Rack.

not too concerned with ride or noise level
Very loud for sure, and they did not do well on a wet road.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2020, 12:47:58 PM
thanks, I haven't ordered them yet
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2020, 12:54:38 PM
Winter tires won't be very good above about 45°F, and summer tires are the reverse.

High performance summer tires are very good on wet pavement at higher Ts.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 20, 2020, 12:58:20 PM
Temperatures under 45F?

Sounds dreadful. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 20, 2020, 12:59:56 PM
Temperatures under 45F?

Sounds dreadful.
Agreed.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2020, 01:05:16 PM
temps under 30 are dreadful

temps above 40 are nice

temps between 30 & 40 are annoying 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 20, 2020, 01:06:42 PM
Outside temps under 70 are annoying, unless I'm running a half-marathon, in which case 65 is acceptable.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 20, 2020, 01:06:49 PM
another great thing about living in the south 

only 1 set of tires necessary
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 20, 2020, 01:07:52 PM
another great thing about living in the south

only 1 set of tires necessary
But of course, don't move here!

Thank You For Your Support
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 20, 2020, 01:09:24 PM
But of course, don't move here!

Thank You For Your Support
did you notice I said south

that was for you utee
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 20, 2020, 01:09:51 PM
ps Texas is as hot as hell and it never rains
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2020, 01:11:24 PM
another great thing about living in the south

only 1 set of tires necessary
and no need for front wheel drive or all-wheel drive

save big $$$ on vehicles

especially in Utee's neighborhood
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 20, 2020, 01:16:30 PM
Probably a bad idea to whip your willie out and play with it whilst on a video zoom call for work.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2020, 01:19:05 PM
It gets a bit too cold here for all year summer tires, but there is no need for any specific drive type.  Rear wheel drive has advantages at the limit of course, and less weight than AWD.  FWD offers better packaging.  The GTI has very little understeer near the limit, they really have refined that out for the most part, so I'm fine with FWD.

I'm good with all season tires here.  I don't push it as much as I once did, getting old.  

There are old pilots, and bold pilots, but no old bold pilots.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2020, 01:19:38 PM
Probably a bad idea to whip your willie out and play with it whilst on a video zoom call for work.

Probably.  I thought this was a Babylon item when I first saw it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2020, 01:23:52 PM
Well looky here, you sweet young thing
The magic's in my hands
When in doubt I whip it out
I got me a rock 'n' roll band
It's a free-for-all
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2020, 01:30:21 PM
The world is getting rather crazy.

The wife and I had a very nice two mile walk including the botanical garden, which had some interesting exhibits up.  It was really a breathable moment, two hours worth.  The weather is about as perfect as it can get, 76°F at the moment.  After I digest lunch, I'm going for a run and the wife will walk while I run.

My running had gotten half decent presurgery and now it's a struggle.  Two months off will do that I guess.

I prefer being out and about to reading the "news", most of which is catering to one crowd or the other.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 20, 2020, 01:30:31 PM
“I got the magic stick.

Shorty I know if I can hit once, I can hit twice. 

I hit the baddest chicks.”
- Jeffrey Toobin
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 20, 2020, 01:31:20 PM
and no need for front wheel drive or all-wheel drive

save big $$$ on vehicles

especially in Utee's neighborhood
Good AWD systems ( Audi, BMW, Subaru) on performance vehicles are pure pleasure!   
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2020, 01:35:19 PM
I'm sure, but just not necessary for southern driving

similar to 400+ horsepower
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 20, 2020, 01:36:32 PM
Having grown up where it never snows it was a treat for me when I went on a business trip to Anchorage, Alaska

This was during Feb and the sun would rise about 10am and set 3 hours later

anyway my business partner (also from Texas) and I decided one night that it would be fun to slide around on an empty parking lot in the rental car we had

it was loads of fun to get up to 20 miles an hour an turn the wheel sharply to the right and do a 100 yard
slide which we did several times

thats when the PoPo arrived on the scene

we sat there in the car and waited for the officer to come up to the car and oh yes he had help

I thought this is great thrown in jail in Alaska life doesnt get any better then this

anyway he was a she which shocked the hell out of me

I rolled down the window and the Officer shined a light into the car and she says

you guys arent from around here are ya?

I said no were from Texas and she kinda laughs and says well that explains it

anyway she checks our licenses and tells us to go back to the hotel we were staying at cause our ice sliding days were over

we couldnt get back to our hotel fast enough and needless to say we didnt try that kind on entertainment again
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2020, 01:36:58 PM
Big Ten pick'em is up and running.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2020, 01:54:12 PM
All wheel drive is good for fast acceleration when you are toting 500 plus horsepower.

The other option is to put the engine in the rear.  The new Corvette with 495 hp is faster to 60 than the old Corvette with 640 hp or more.

But "we" rarely floor the throttle from a dead stop in real life.

The main problems with AWD are weight and complexity and cost.  The BMW AWD option is $2,000.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 20, 2020, 02:01:53 PM

There is some crazy car that I see all over the desert that I had never once seen in my life up in the Midwest for obvious reasons. 

(https://cdn1.polaris.com/globalassets/slingshot/2020/model/vehicle-alternates/r-us-m-miamiblue.png?v=79903389&format=webp)

It only has three wheels (one in the back, two in the front). 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 20, 2020, 02:08:22 PM
There is some crazy car that I see all over the desert that I had never once seen in my life up in the Midwest for obvious reasons.

(https://cdn1.polaris.com/globalassets/slingshot/2020/model/vehicle-alternates/r-us-m-miamiblue.png?v=79903389&format=webp)

It only has three wheels (one in the back, two in the front).


One of the more famous people in the town I live in drives one of these. It's very funny. I think they're called slingshots. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 20, 2020, 02:11:14 PM
Since we're on cars, a few weeks back I ended up with a big ass pickup truck from a rental place accidentally (I suppose it's a normal sized pickup truck, but still a beastly vehicle compared to most).

I usually drive normal sized cars, and at times long for the convince of just being able to move a bed or something without calling a friend to borrow a truck. But having to drive that thing for daily use, I don't get the appeal of driving them for daily use.

Was it because I'm thrifty and the monitor kept reminding me of how much more gas I was using? Maybe.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2020, 02:15:39 PM
There is some crazy car that I see all over the desert that I had never once seen in my life up in the Midwest for obvious reasons.

(https://cdn1.polaris.com/globalassets/slingshot/2020/model/vehicle-alternates/r-us-m-miamiblue.png?v=79903389&format=webp)

It only has three wheels (one in the back, two in the front).


oh, some goofy folks have them here
novelty
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2020, 02:22:44 PM


anyway my business partner (also from Texas) and I decided one night that it would be fun to slide around on an empty parking lot in the rental car we had

it was loads of fun to get up to 20 miles an hour an turn the wheel sharply to the right and do a 100 yard
slide which we did several times


too bad it wasn't a rear wheel drive

much more fun
not that I'd know anything about such stuff
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 20, 2020, 02:45:45 PM
4WD (or AWD) is good for towing boats up slick ramps.  It's also good for towing RV trailers in the sand on the beach.    I wouldn't do either, without the 4WD.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 20, 2020, 02:52:59 PM
There is some crazy car that I see all over the desert that I had never once seen in my life up in the Midwest for obvious reasons.

(https://cdn1.polaris.com/globalassets/slingshot/2020/model/vehicle-alternates/r-us-m-miamiblue.png?v=79903389&format=webp)

It only has three wheels (one in the back, two in the front).
I've seen those. I can't understand what the purpose is, though... I would expect that about the only advantage is that by technically being a "motorcycle", they can avoid most of the safety features that a car like the Ariel Atom needs to be street legal. 

But I can't imagine that the acceleration is anywhere near as good as having two drive wheels, nor the handling. 

If you want an open-air vehicle that doesn't accelerate or handle particularly well, and can be driven sans-doors, why not just get a Jeep? :57:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 20, 2020, 03:08:08 PM


If you want an open-air vehicle that doesn't accelerate or handle particularly well, and can be driven sans-doors, why not just get a Jeep? :57:
Word.  


Plus, Jeeps look a LOT cooler.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2020, 03:16:25 PM
We are now contemplating a boat that we can take back and forth from here to Wisconsin, but still keeping our slip.

Might need to get a big diesel to manage that. I'm looking at 10K pounds.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2020, 03:17:55 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/1bGhsyK.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/HOhZ7gF.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/E79ccPe.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2020, 03:22:11 PM
https://twitter.com/dave_heller/status/1318615663473233921
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2020, 03:24:01 PM
We are now contemplating a boat that we can take back and forth from here to Wisconsin, but still keeping our slip.

Might need to get a big diesel to manage that. I'm looking at 10K pounds.
rent a truck


diesel dually
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2020, 03:28:14 PM
Since we're on cars, a few weeks back I ended up with a big ass pickup truck from a rental place accidentally (I suppose it's a normal sized pickup truck, but still a beastly vehicle compared to most).

I usually drive normal sized cars, and at times long for the convince of just being able to move a bed or something without calling a friend to borrow a truck. But having to drive that thing for daily use, I don't get the appeal of driving them for daily use.

Was it because I'm thrifty and the monitor kept reminding me of how much more gas I was using? Maybe.
the half ton pickups are much larger than they were in the 70s and 80s, but you get used to the size

many people, especially short guys and gals like the height of the pickup so they can see better

gasoline is CHEAP - $1.77 per gallon here
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 20, 2020, 03:33:57 PM
https://apnews.com/article/google-justice-department-antitrust-0510e8f9047956254455ec5d4db06044?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter

DoJ just announces anti-trust lawsuit against Google. It’s. About. Damn. Time. Under the fascistic corporatist Obama monopolies were allowed to grow like a weed, extort their customers, and crush every competitor unchecked. 

Hopefully this is just the first of many anti-trust lawsuits to come.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2020, 03:38:08 PM
https://twitter.com/dave_heller/status/1318615663473233921

and the black "W" signifies what?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 20, 2020, 03:39:42 PM
We are now contemplating a boat that we can take back and forth from here to Wisconsin, but still keeping our slip.

Might need to get a big diesel to manage that. I'm looking at 10K pounds.
I don't know anything about renting trucks as FF suggested.  There might or might not be additional insurance you'd need to purchase to cover the towing.

But as for WHAT it would require to tow something 10K plus, yes, you're looking at a 250/2500, and I'd highly recommend the turbodiesel engines.  You don't need a dually, though.

My F150 is rated up to 11,500 lbs, and it works great for the amount of towing I do, on a trailer that is ~6500 lbs dry weight and ~8500 lbs - 9000 lbs wet and fully loaded.  But I always recommend keeping a safety margin of 20% or more below your max tow rating.

Payload is also a consideration, some trucks have the capability to tow quite a bit, but their payloads are not sufficient.  The tongue weight of the trailer, plus the weight of all gear, and all passengers, in the towing vehicle, all count against payload capacity.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 20, 2020, 03:48:38 PM
and the black "W" signifies what?
They're woke.

But they're late. Purdue's been wearing black since 1887. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on October 20, 2020, 03:48:57 PM
From my experience with pulling horse trailers, gas engines that are pulling heavy trailers have a habit of dropping to crawl speed at the most inopportune times. Such as going up a 1% grade. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2020, 04:06:24 PM
I'd need a 2500. Nice used ones (2-3 years) are fetching $50K or so.

As an alternative, I could pay some company $2K each way for a few years and keep my money.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 20, 2020, 04:08:18 PM
I don't know anything about renting trucks as FF suggested.  There might or might not be additional insurance you'd need to purchase to cover the towing.

But as for WHAT it would require to tow something 10K plus, yes, you're looking at a 250/2500, and I'd highly recommend the turbodiesel engines.  You don't need a dually, though.

My F150 is rated up to 11,500 lbs, and it works great for the amount of towing I do, on a trailer that is ~6500 lbs dry weight and ~8500 lbs - 9000 lbs wet and fully loaded.  But I always recommend keeping a safety margin of 20% or more below your max tow rating.

Payload is also a consideration, some trucks have the capability to tow quite a bit, but their payloads are not sufficient.  The tongue weight of the trailer, plus the weight of all gear, and all passengers, in the towing vehicle, all count against payload capacity.
I have an F-250 with the 6.2 liter engine. I have a camper that comes in at about 11,500 - 12,000 lbs when fully loaded with supplies. It is close to the max limit for a trailer on a traditional hitch (not a fifth wheel). It pulls nice, but when pulling over hilly territory, it is about all that the engine wants. 

I'm looking at going with a fifth wheel in a couple of years. They are making some that are considerably lighter than what I have, which should be nice. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2020, 04:14:44 PM
I'd need a 2500. Nice used ones (2-3 years) are fetching $50K or so.

As an alternative, I could pay some company $2K each way for a few years and keep my money.
probably even better than renting a 2500 and towing yourself
I'd just purchase a boat at each location if I had your money ;)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2020, 04:23:28 PM
I think that would be wasteful, and I'm not that at all. Pretty frugal, mostly, but I do like nice things.

You could have two boats if you lived here and not there...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 20, 2020, 04:30:14 PM
the half ton pickups are much larger than they were in the 70s and 80s, but you get used to the size

many people, especially short guys and gals like the height of the pickup so they can see better

gasoline is CHEAP - $1.77 per gallon here
Yeah, but my car gets 50 percent more miles for that $1.77.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 20, 2020, 04:32:04 PM
https://apnews.com/article/google-justice-department-antitrust-0510e8f9047956254455ec5d4db06044?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter

DoJ just announces anti-trust lawsuit against Google. It’s. About. Damn. Time. Under the fascistic corporatist Obama monopolies were allowed to grow like a weed, extort their customers, and crush every competitor unchecked.

Hopefully this is just the first of many anti-trust lawsuits to come.
I'll be interested to see how this goes. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2020, 04:36:10 PM
Yeah, but my car gets 50 percent more miles for that $1.77.
ya gotta drive a lot of miles to make it worth very much

I drive less than 15,000 a year

now when gas was $4/gallon.........
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2020, 04:44:13 PM
I could have predicted this months ago, but it appears we may have the largest voter turnout for the November elections in USA history.

I think that's a good thing

probably not motivated by good things, but folks should be interested enough to get out and vote
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 20, 2020, 04:47:24 PM
ya gotta drive a lot of miles to make it worth very much

I drive less than 15,000 a year

now when gas was $4/gallon.........
I'm quite scrupulous with my money. It's an extra couple hundred if you drive even 10,000. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 20, 2020, 05:07:22 PM
gasoline is CHEAP - $1.77 per gallon here
Went down to 1.87 here best I've seen in a long while so I filled up both cars.Which of course means it'll go lower
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2020, 05:18:18 PM
I'm quite scrupulous with my money. It's an extra couple hundred if you drive even 10,000.
 for $40/month or $500 a year, I'll just leave a larger carbon print

I need or find a 4-wheel drive truck convenient at times.  For $500 a year I'd rather just have one vehicle that can do everything.

better for me than having a car and a truck

I used to have an old beater truck I used to haul things and tow things and drive in the snow.  And then a nice car for other uses.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2020, 05:30:21 PM

I assume you are including me in that, yeah?

If you want my answer, ask me in the offseason thread (while it still exists). I'll try to defer from politics forthwith in here. But I don't want you to think I'm ducking the question or unwilling/unable to answer it.


I think I know where you sit. You're just like me. I can't stand Trump, but I like his policy decisions on trade, wars, economy.


I will hold my nose and vote with my wallet. The alternative is worse. Oh well. Shoot me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2020, 06:07:07 PM

I think I know where you sit. You're just like me. I can't stand Trump, but I like his policy decisions on trade, wars, economy.


I will hold my nose and vote with my wallet. The alternative is worse. Oh well. Shoot me.
Ed Zachery!
but, it's not our fault.  It's the fault of the two parties in power.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on October 20, 2020, 06:14:32 PM
During peak shelter in place times,  we had unleaded at $1.22 in south central Indiana. I took this pic.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 20, 2020, 06:20:07 PM

I think I know where you sit. You're just like me. I can't stand Trump, but I like his policy decisions on trade, wars, economy.


I will hold my nose and vote with my wallet. The alternative is worse. Oh well. Shoot me.
Well, I don't like is policy decisions on trade. I think we differ on that one. I'm not sure what he's done for the economy other than reduce taxes, but obviously I favor lower taxes. He hasn't really done anything about government spending, though, which basically just means he's kicking the can, and as I've got 20+ years of working left ahead of me, may result in me being the one paying the piper. I'll give him credit for not getting us into any wars, though. That's helpful. 

My issues with Trump extend FAR beyond "can't stand him", although I certainly can't stand him. I think he's a threat to the country. He's spent the last 2-3 months casting doubt on electoral democracy to set himself up to challenge his eventual loss in court, and he's publicly, and repeatedly, suggested he deserves 3 or 4 terms. And honestly, I think a lot of people see him as just another politician, but I think the potential damage he can do frankly unmakes us. 

So per HB's question about why I support "the other side", the answer is that I don't support the other side. My own interests are often better served by the R party than the D party. But in this case, it's not based on party at all, nor on policy, because I view Trump as in the running for the worst President in American history, if not taking it outright. So while I'm not excited about a Biden presidency, I would quite literally vote for nearly anyone in the nation over Donald Trump. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2020, 06:22:42 PM
Well, your vote really doesn't matter based on where you are.

For the first time since I was in Madison, my vote matters. And I will use it early and often. Heh. Can't take Chicago out of the boy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 20, 2020, 06:30:38 PM
Well, your vote really doesn't matter based on where you are.

For the first time since I was in Madison, my vote matters. And I will use it early and often. Heh. Can't take Chicago out of the boy.
That's true, which is why I typically vote for the "L" party in Presidential elections. It becomes a vote of no confidence in the entire system.

This year, that's not the case. I want to add one more number to the tally that repudiates Donald Trump and everything he stands for, and the best way to do that is if Biden wins in a landslide, not a squeaker. 

Plus, unless it's a landslide, Trump will assuredly battle it in court. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 20, 2020, 06:37:05 PM

I think I know where you sit. You're just like me. I can't stand Trump, but I like his policy decisions on trade, wars, economy.


I will hold my nose and vote with my wallet. The alternative is worse. Oh well. Shoot me.
One thing I will say is that if nothing else, the man has certianly shifted both the outlook of each tribe and the the perception of certain out looks.

When I was younger, his was the hawkish party, the other one more dovish (or at least perceived that way). The guy before the current guy had certain hawkish acts/impulses, though he'd ended the one war and drawn down the other after ramping up.

And when I was young, the current trade policy was considered strongly at odds with the party that held aloft the economy as it's main thing. Free trade and robust business were considered in line with each other. If anything, one of the mis-steps of the other party was allowing itself to lean into free trade for the economic side, thereby starting the deterioration of its labor base. (And now we have a weird case of government intervening in supply chain and also maybe trying to cap big businesses)

The one policy I'd love to see would be one that came up at some points in one of the terms was the emphasis on community college. The issue is it would deal a blow to four-year institutions, but they might be in bubble mode. It always made more sense to me than the pushes to force four-year schools to shift, rather than just letting that change with demand. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 20, 2020, 06:48:46 PM
Well, your vote really doesn't matter based on where you are.

For the first time since I was in Madison, my vote matters. And I will use it early and often. Heh. Can't take Chicago out of the boy.
Ooo, you gave me an in for something interesting I saw.

We've kind of chewed over the idea of this state or that state is bad. And how the electoral college is weird. And some people believe strongly in states as a concept, whereas I believe there's a certain arbitrariness to them. 

Anyway, in that state when Bwar's vote doesn't matter. 4.484 million folks voted for the current guy, and those votes are considered not really mattering. There are only nine states that had more votes total. So if every 2016 voter in Georgia voted for one side, it wouldn't be as many as the votes that "don't matter."

What's more, that 4.484 million is more people than live in half of the states in the union. Every man, woman and child in Kentucky or Oklahoma could vote the same way and it wouldn't match that total from a state that's locked in with one party. 

I just found that wild in a way. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2020, 06:49:17 PM

He's spent the last 2-3 months casting doubt on electoral democracy to set himself up to challenge his eventual loss in court, and he's publicly, and repeatedly, suggested he deserves 3 or 4 terms. And honestly, I think a lot of people see him as just another politician, but I think the potential damage he can do frankly unmakes us.

I certainly hope Trump would take a defeat at the polls like a man.  It wouldn't surprise me if he challenged the defeat.  I would then hope it would be thrown out of court quickly
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2020, 06:52:52 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/121161669_3635433446516467_5948063957502743350_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=U1fcePumF68AX8FR61h&_nc_oc=AQmKi1IilyjWEjUWD2yq8VWKavoi7Nx3hzZcRgUnWgwe2TnXBrNuxL0DSCW7SUyrzOs&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=7&oh=106353b5c79688fa6e510e25fea963c3&oe=5FB46A45)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 20, 2020, 06:54:59 PM
Well, I don't like is policy decisions on trade. I think we differ on that one. I'm not sure what he's done for the economy other than reduce taxes, but obviously I favor lower taxes. He hasn't really done anything about government spending, though, which basically just means he's kicking the can, and as I've got 20+ years of working left ahead of me, may result in me being the one paying the piper. I'll give him credit for not getting us into any wars, though. That's helpful.

My issues with Trump extend FAR beyond "can't stand him", although I certainly can't stand him. I think he's a threat to the country. He's spent the last 2-3 months casting doubt on electoral democracy to set himself up to challenge his eventual loss in court, and he's publicly, and repeatedly, suggested he deserves 3 or 4 terms. And honestly, I think a lot of people see him as just another politician, but I think the potential damage he can do frankly unmakes us.

So per HB's question about why I support "the other side", the answer is that I don't support the other side. My own interests are often better served by the R party than the D party. But in this case, it's not based on party at all, nor on policy, because I view Trump as in the running for the worst President in American history, if not taking it outright. So while I'm not excited about a Biden presidency, I would quite literally vote for nearly anyone in the nation over Donald Trump.
Fair enough. 

we can agree on one thing: your best interests are definitely served by the R.

I might even agree with you as far as communication skills. He is certainly not in my top 20 presidents LOL. But I wouldn’t call him the worst president even of the last decade or even close to that.

The Ds Represent Unabashed  corruption, dishonesty,hypocrisy,violence lawlessness and being in cahoots with the media.  And it is the whole damn party.    They sicken me.

when I filled out my absentee ballot last week I left the presidential slot on marked but pretty much voted For Republicans down the line, With the exception of one judge.





Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 20, 2020, 06:58:48 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/121161669_3635433446516467_5948063957502743350_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=U1fcePumF68AX8FR61h&_nc_oc=AQmKi1IilyjWEjUWD2yq8VWKavoi7Nx3hzZcRgUnWgwe2TnXBrNuxL0DSCW7SUyrzOs&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=7&oh=106353b5c79688fa6e510e25fea963c3&oe=5FB46A45)
Without context, that's certianly a funny chyron. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 20, 2020, 07:00:26 PM
Fair enough. 

we can agree on one thing: your best interests are definitely served by the R.

I might even agree with you as far as communication skills. He is certainly not in my top 20 presidents LOL. But I wouldn’t call him the worst president even of the last decade or even close to that.

The Ds Represent Unabashed  corruption, dishonesty,hypocrisy,violence lawlessness and being in cahoots with the media.  And it is the whole damn party.    They sicken me.

when I filled out my absentee ballot last week I left the presidential slot on marked but pretty much voted For Republicans down the line, With the exception of one judge.






Sigh, I miss when most posts like this were stricken from the board. It would wipe out many of mine, and I'd be super OK with it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 20, 2020, 07:05:39 PM
I've seen those. I can't understand what the purpose is, though... I would expect that about the only advantage is that by technically being a "motorcycle", they can avoid most of the safety features that a car like the Ariel Atom needs to be street legal.

But I can't imagine that the acceleration is anywhere near as good as having two drive wheels, nor the handling.

If you want an open-air vehicle that doesn't accelerate or handle particularly well, and can be driven sans-doors, why not just get a Jeep? :57:


In California you are allowed to drive a "motorcycle" down the dotted white line that divides the traffic lanes. 

You cannot do that with a "jeep" 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 20, 2020, 07:11:54 PM
Sigh, I miss when most posts like this were stricken from the board. It would wipe out many of mine, and I'd be super OK with it.
Yes- It would wipe out many of your posts and dozens of others as well. And it would make me happy. This place is ruined by politics. But if I continue seeing these kind of posts and we’re going to allow it in this thread you will get my two cents. Suck it up
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 20, 2020, 07:19:22 PM
Yes- It would wipe out many of your posts and dozens of others as well. And it would make me happy. This place is ruined by politics. But if I continue seeing these kind of posts and we’re going to allow it in this thread you will get my two cents. Suck it up
It would be grand.

But now the thread is two cents richer knowing more than half this great country sickens you. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 20, 2020, 07:28:21 PM
It would be grand.

But now the thread is two cents richer knowing more than half this great country sickens you.
Nice try. Although I think it’s disingenuous since you know better. The Democratic Party Politician  sicken me and many people who support them wholeheartedly sicken me. 

maybe I wasn’t clear because I’m watching a video of Biden lying AGAIN- about having support of a major Pennsylvania union being rebuffed by the actual head of the union who flat out says Biden never spoke to them nor got their endorsement. in fact they endorsed Trump.    Standard fare though.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 20, 2020, 07:36:28 PM


The Rs Represent Unabashed  corruption, dishonesty,hypocrisy,violence lawlessness and being in cahoots with the media.  And it is the whole damn party.    They sicken me.
Oh look, they see your side the same way as you see theirs.  Fun.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 20, 2020, 07:37:36 PM
I could have predicted this months ago, but it appears we may have the largest voter turnout for the November elections in USA history.

I think that's a good thing
Not for the party trying to suppress voting.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 20, 2020, 07:37:41 PM
Oh look, they see your side the same way as you see theirs.  Fun.
Yep.   
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 20, 2020, 07:38:13 PM
Not for the party trying to suppress voting. 
You mean suppress fraud. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 20, 2020, 07:46:04 PM
Nice try. Although I think it’s disingenuous since you know better. The Democratic Party Politician  sicken me and many people who support them wholeheartedly sicken me.

maybe I wasn’t clear because I’m watching a video of Biden lying AGAIN- about having support of a major Pennsylvania union being rebuffed by the actual head of the union who flat out says Biden never spoke to them nor got their endorsement. in fact they endorsed Trump.    Standard fare though. 
You wrote "The Ds Represent Unabashed  corruption, dishonesty,hypocrisy,violence lawlessness and being in cahoots with the media.  And it is the whole damn party.    They sicken me."

I read that as what it said. Since it meant something different, i'm glad you added your two cents about just the politicians. One balance, I think we'd agree the majority are dirtbags. We might slightly disagree about which side the sliver of non-dritbags is on, but there's the game. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 20, 2020, 07:46:16 PM
Oh look, they see your side the same way as you see theirs.  Fun.
Follow the money. The D's out-fund raise the R's. By. A. Lot. 

Barack Obama was the greatest trick/ad campaign pulled on the American people in the history of this country. He raised more money from Wall Street than any Presidential nominee ever- and his entire first cabinet was basically hand-picked with input from Citigroup. 

Truth of the matter is there is basically one party. They are both bought and paid for. They agree on almost everything in the end, and both are bought and paid for by the self-proclaimed "masters of the universe". 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 20, 2020, 07:49:45 PM

In California you are allowed to drive a "motorcycle" down the dotted white line that divides the traffic lanes.

You cannot do that with a "jeep"
Ahh, lane splitting. Man, I really miss being able to do that! That was nice.

When I lived up in San Jose my commute was 60 minutes in a car and 20 minutes on the bike, due to lane splitting. And that was back in 2001-02 when the traffic wasn't even as bad as it is now. 

That said, one of those Slingshots wouldn't work lane-splitting... Definitely too wide. 

(And actually, the "lane sharing" rules of the road in California don't stop cars from lane-sharing. But much like the Slingshot, my Jeep wouldn't fit between two other cars between the lanes.)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 20, 2020, 07:51:42 PM
Well, I don't like is policy decisions on trade. I think we differ on that one. I'm not sure what he's done for the economy other than reduce taxes, but obviously I favor lower taxes. He hasn't really done anything about government spending, though, which basically just means he's kicking the can, and as I've got 20+ years of working left ahead of me, may result in me being the one paying the piper. I'll give him credit for not getting us into any wars, though. That's helpful.

My issues with Trump extend FAR beyond "can't stand him", although I certainly can't stand him. I think he's a threat to the country. He's spent the last 2-3 months casting doubt on electoral democracy to set himself up to challenge his eventual loss in court, and he's publicly, and repeatedly, suggested he deserves 3 or 4 terms. And honestly, I think a lot of people see him as just another politician, but I think the potential damage he can do frankly unmakes us.

So per HB's question about why I support "the other side", the answer is that I don't support the other side. My own interests are often better served by the R party than the D party. But in this case, it's not based on party at all, nor on policy, because I view Trump as in the running for the worst President in American history, if not taking it outright. So while I'm not excited about a Biden presidency, I would quite literally vote for nearly anyone in the nation over Donald Trump.
Our "free trade deals" in the past were really just investor rights agreement. Nothing free about them at all. 

I'll give him credit for nuking TPP before it ever started, ripping up NAFTA, and going after China. Those are all HUGE deals to me. And say what you want, but the markets and the rigged unemployment gov't numbers that are rigged the same way by every former administration in history- were all at record highs. So his phony numbers beat every other president's phony numbers in history. 

I think you are buying into the media bullshit my friend. I don't see him as that much of a threat. As far as worst Presidents ever, as long as Clinton, W, or Obama breathe- one of them got that on lock and it's not freaking close.

IMO a Biden presidency would be a disaster for a country and an economy that is reeling and needs to recover. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 20, 2020, 07:52:39 PM
Yes- It would wipe out many of your posts and dozens of others as well. And it would make me happy. This place is ruined by politics. But if I continue seeing these kind of posts and we’re going to allow it in this thread you will get my two cents. Suck it up
Well I think Badge has it right. This thread locks as soon as the B1G kicks off. If there is another politics thread, it locks the night of Nov 3. 

And then I think we should all take a step back, drink a beer or twenty, and remember what brought us all together in the first place. 

The realization that Notre Dame should never be a B1G member.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 20, 2020, 07:56:00 PM
Well I think Badge has it right. This thread locks as soon as the B1G kicks off. If there is another politics thread, it locks the night of Nov 3.

And then I think we should all take a step back, drink a beer or twenty, and remember what brought us all together in the first place.

The realization that Notre Dame should never be a B1G member.
You had me up til the end. I still think ND would only help elevate the B1G. Probably doesn't matter though, as the SEC is king and will be for awhile due to the demographic/population shift from Rust Belt to the Sun Belt.

The states of Georgia, Florida, North Carolina, and South Carolina have grown like a weed and produce so much football talent now. Not to mention Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama always produce a high amount of top football players per capita- and SEC also brought in a Texas school in A&M to build a pipeline into that close-by talent rich producing state.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 20, 2020, 07:58:07 PM
Well I think Badge has it right. This thread locks as soon as the B1G kicks off. If there is another politics thread, it locks the night of Nov 3.

And then I think we should all take a step back, drink a beer or twenty, and remember what brought us all together in the first place.

The realization that Notre Dame should never be a B1G member.
except its harder to drink a beer with slashed wrists
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on October 20, 2020, 07:58:15 PM
By biggest problem with Trump isn't his many personal issues, it's his incompetence.  He can't explain really any policy position and doesn't really try.  He values loyalty over competence.  So you can't trust anything he says, or by extension anything from the government.   If he could put on at least the air of doing a good job, he'd be in a lot better shape for the election.

He did open a can of worms by essentially being the first Twitter president.  He won based less on money and more on just trashing Obama every chance he got.  But he could bypass the political machinery, and other (better) politicians are doing the same thing now.  So I'm encouraged at the idea that we could get some fresh ideas by people who don't need to raise money, and also fearful at the idea that someone like Trump gets elected but instead of being bumbling and incompetent is instead competent and ruthless and really destroy all the things that Trump talks about destroying.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 20, 2020, 07:59:25 PM
except its harder to drink a beer with slashed wrists
Who is doing what now?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 20, 2020, 08:08:51 PM
By biggest problem with Trump isn't his many personal issues, it's his incompetence.  He can't explain really any policy position and doesn't really try.  He values loyalty over competence.  So you can't trust anything he says, or by extension anything from the government.  If he could put on at least the air of doing a good job, he'd be in a lot better shape for the election.

He did open a can of worms by essentially being the first Twitter president.  He won based less on money and more on just trashing Obama every chance he got.  But he could bypass the political machinery, and other (better) politicians are doing the same thing now.  So I'm encouraged at the idea that we could get some fresh ideas by people who don't need to raise money, and also fearful at the idea that someone like Trump gets elected but instead of being bumbling and incompetent is instead competent and ruthless and really destroy all the things that Trump talks about destroying.
What politician in the history of ever- ever even tries to pretend to explain policy positions? They all just speak in platitudes and throw out empty promises. I see a lot of the new, younger politicians embracing twitter- and most of them are basically very stupid or just flat out frauds.

DC is literally the most corrupt place on earth and it is impossibly hard to get anything done or fix anything. This country doesn't need a President to get in there and perform surgery. It needs someone to go in there with a sledge hammer and smash everything- and someone that's backed by people in the House and Senate that are completely aligned with him. The President is not a dictator. He needs people in the house and senate on his side. Maybe we the people should start by voting corrupt f***face frauds like Pelosi and Schumer and McConnell out? Maybe? Instead no- these corrupt f***ksticks are re-elected 99.9% of the time and stay in office for 50 freaking years, using their positions in power in order to enrich themselves and their families and serve their masters in the donor class- #Joe Biden.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on October 20, 2020, 08:25:15 PM
Politicians do actually try to do what they promise.  Even Trump made an effort at a wall and certainly tried to ban Muslims and immigrants.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2020, 08:45:44 PM
Well I think Badge has it right. This thread locks as soon as the B1G kicks off. If there is another politics thread, it locks the night of Nov 3.

And then I think we should all take a step back, drink a beer or twenty, and remember what brought us all together in the first place.

The realization that Notre Dame should never be a B1G member.
outstanding post
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 20, 2020, 08:47:46 PM
Politicians do actually try to do what they promise.  Even Trump made an effort at a wall and certainly tried to ban Muslims and immigrants. 
Who's being naive, Kay?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2020, 08:49:09 PM
We had a very nice day ignoring politics, walking touring, nice dinner at Atmosphere, now some Woodford Reserve.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 20, 2020, 08:54:38 PM
We had a very nice day ignoring politics, walking touring, nice dinner at Atmosphere, now some Woodford Reserve.
Woodford Reserve!  A personal favorite. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2020, 08:59:34 PM
I'm watching game #1

trying to ignore political ads

had some crock pot beef roast with taters and onions, and carrots
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 20, 2020, 09:03:21 PM
By biggest problem with Trump isn't his many personal issues, it's his incompetence.  He can't explain really any policy position and doesn't really try.  He values loyalty over competence.  So you can't trust anything he says, or by extension anything from the government.  If he could put on at least the air of doing a good job, he'd be in a lot better shape for the election.

He did open a can of worms by essentially being the first Twitter president.  He won based less on money and more on just trashing Obama every chance he got.  But he could bypass the political machinery, and other (better) politicians are doing the same thing now.  So I'm encouraged at the idea that we could get some fresh ideas by people who don't need to raise money, and also fearful at the idea that someone like Trump gets elected but instead of being bumbling and incompetent is instead competent and ruthless and really destroy all the things that Trump talks about destroying.
you are really misreading the American people Max

but I guess that what elections are for
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 20, 2020, 09:10:35 PM
Politicians do actually try to do what they promise.  Even Trump made an effort at a wall and certainly tried to ban Muslims and immigrants. 
Speaking of immigrants. You, do realize that Nobel peace prize winning, constitutional lawyer Obama- still to this day is the only president ever that has ordered the assassination of an American citizen without any due process whatsoever- suspender of habeas corpus, destroyer of Libya, prosecutor of more whistle-blowers under the espionage act than every previous president before him COMBINED- bailouter of Wall Street banks and pe- evictor of 5.1 million families from their homes- yeah that cocksucker- well his first term admin deported roughly 50% more people than xenophobic bad orange guy‘s first term administration. Food for thought.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 20, 2020, 10:48:53 PM
I'm watching game #1

trying to ignore political ads

had some crock pot beef roast with taters and onions, and carrots
is that the one that uses a can of mushroom soup and onion soup mix
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on October 20, 2020, 10:50:59 PM
Speaking of immigrants. You, do realize that Nobel peace prize winning, constitutional lawyer Obama- still to this day is the only president ever that has ordered the assassination of an American citizen without any due process whatsoever- suspender of habeas corpus, destroyer of Libya, prosecutor of more whistle-blowers under the espionage act than every previous president before him COMBINED- bailouter of Wall Street banks and pe- evictor of 5.1 million families from their homes- yeah that cocksucker- well his first term admin deported roughly 50% more people than xenophobic bad orange guy‘s first term administration. Food for thought.
Obama wasn't incompetent
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2020, 11:21:39 PM
is that the one that uses a can of mushroom soup and onion soup mix
not really, I usually add a can of cream of mushroom soup, but not this time

had plenty of yellow onions and spices added - I don't use the onion soup mix

a large can of beef broth for the liquid
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 20, 2020, 11:28:59 PM
Obama wasn't incompetent
You’re right. He was a liar and a criminal.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 20, 2020, 11:29:55 PM
not really, I usually add a can of cream of mushroom soup, but not this time

had plenty of yellow onions and spices added - I don't use the onion soup mix

a large can of beef broth for the liquid
ok just wondered
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 21, 2020, 01:05:35 AM
DC is literally the most corrupt place on earth and it is impossibly hard to get anything done or fix anything. 
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious"

- Obe wan Kenobi
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 21, 2020, 01:14:54 AM
(And actually, the "lane sharing" rules of the road in California don't stop cars from lane-sharing. But much like the Slingshot, my Jeep wouldn't fit between two other cars between the lanes.)
Simple get a monster truck and go over them.Cali is always thinking ahead of the curve
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 21, 2020, 01:14:55 AM
Ahh, lane splitting. Man, I really miss being able to do that! That was nice.

When I lived up in San Jose my commute was 60 minutes in a car and 20 minutes on the bike, due to lane splitting. And that was back in 2001-02 when the traffic wasn't even as bad as it is now.

That said, one of those Slingshots wouldn't work lane-splitting... Definitely too wide.

(And actually, the "lane sharing" rules of the road in California don't stop cars from lane-sharing. But much like the Slingshot, my Jeep wouldn't fit between two other cars between the lanes.)


Sounds like you need one of those "1 person" cars from China. They are not much wider than a motorbike. 


(https://s.alicdn.com/@sc01/kf/HTB1Gu7nXET1gK0jSZFrq6ANCXXai.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 21, 2020, 01:17:07 AM
And then I think we should all take a step back, drink a beer or twenty, and remember what brought us all together in the first place.

The realization that Notre Dame should never be a B1G member.
For some unbeknownst god fore saken reason I started last nite
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 21, 2020, 01:20:29 AM
Obama wasn't incompetent
*Braces for impact*
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 21, 2020, 01:21:49 AM

not really, I usually add a can of cream of mushroom soup, but not this time

had plenty of yellow onions and spices added - I don't use the onion soup mix

a large can of beef broth for the liquid
Cream of mushroom is a good ingredient in a lot of good meals.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 21, 2020, 01:22:36 AM
You mean suppress fraud.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 21, 2020, 01:27:38 AM
Well, I don't like is policy decisions on trade. I think we differ on that one. I'm not sure what he's done for the economy other than reduce taxes, but obviously I favor lower taxes. 
I think we differ on this one I'm paying more thanx to his changes but I'm prolly not in your or Badge's tax brackett
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 21, 2020, 01:28:18 AM
By biggest problem with Trump isn't his many personal issues, it's his incompetence.  He can't explain really any policy position and doesn't really try.  
Shhhhh...don't let the secret out.  


Not an insult, but an earnest guess - Trump would fail a 4th grade Social Studies test.  He genuinely would, and it wouldn't be a high F, like a 62 or something.  He'd probably score in the 20s or so.  He hasn't the slightest inkling of how any of it works.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 21, 2020, 01:44:28 AM
There is some crazy car that I see all over the desert that I had never once seen in my life up in the Midwest for obvious reasons.

(https://cdn1.polaris.com/globalassets/slingshot/2020/model/vehicle-alternates/r-us-m-miamiblue.png?v=79903389&format=webp)

It only has three wheels (one in the back, two in the front).


There was one in front of me getting off the highway in august.Thought it scaled  down Bat mobile,weird as hell
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 21, 2020, 01:49:37 AM
Outside temps under 70 are annoying, unless I'm running a half-marathon, in which case 65 is acceptable.
I like 65,lakes don't disappear at that temperature
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 21, 2020, 06:22:00 AM
The one policy I'd love to see would be one that came up at some points in one of the terms was the emphasis on community college. The issue is it would deal a blow to four-year institutions, but they might be in bubble mode. It always made more sense to me than the pushes to force four-year schools to shift, rather than just letting that change with demand.
They need to be dealt a blow. Most of them need to go away. They are a big part of our problems right now.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 21, 2020, 06:30:36 AM
Obama wasn't incompetent
Nope. He was a very good career politician from Chicago. Clean as they come. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 21, 2020, 06:33:16 AM
Shhhhh...don't let the secret out. 


Not an insult, but an earnest guess - Trump would fail a 4th grade Social Studies test.  He genuinely would, and it wouldn't be a high F, like a 62 or something.  He'd probably score in the 20s or so.  He hasn't the slightest inkling of how any of it works.
Another problem.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 21, 2020, 07:30:34 AM
It should be another glorious day here.  October is a great month.  I should maybe take up golf again.

Nah.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 21, 2020, 07:31:51 AM
Shhhhh...don't let the secret out. 


Not an insult, but an earnest guess - Trump would fail a 4th grade Social Studies test.  He genuinely would, and it wouldn't be a high F, like a 62 or something.  He'd probably score in the 20s or so.  He hasn't the slightest inkling of how any of it works.
What would you earnestly guess Biden would score?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 21, 2020, 07:57:45 AM
My guess would be he'd get an AARP.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 21, 2020, 08:15:19 AM
The country has had contentious elections before, 1800 leaps to mind, when two Founding Fathers went at it, or their minions did (they didn't campaign directly back then).

Adams and Jefferson became political enemies after this, until years later when they made up.  But if we take most of the candidates in our history back when in terms of their basic honesty, decency, capacity, and good intentions, throw out political positions, my opinion is we had some solid choices more often than not.  Few of them were flat incompetent, or schills, or greedy bastages, or whatever.

Obviously some were less then memorable, but most of them were decent enough folks.  Our two choices during my lifetime have often not met that bar, in my view.

The last candidate I truly admired was Bill Bradley in 2000.  I didn't agree with all of his positions at the time, but I did think he was more than competent, and honest, and capable, and decent, and wanted the best for the country.  I have not felt that way since, and rarely before him in my lifetime.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 21, 2020, 08:21:53 AM
Another problem.
Any and all issues with what is taught and with what it's taught can largely fall to the state legislature of Texas.  And you can guess which party they strongly lean towards.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 21, 2020, 08:23:36 AM
What would you earnestly guess Biden would score?
Better.  
Well, or decently.  

Here, to make us both correct:  Biden's forgotten more than Trump knows.  
You simply can't acknowledge the point, you have to go straight to, "yeah, but" crap as a retort.  

A 4th grader would stomp Trump, but would peek at Biden's test for the answers.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 21, 2020, 08:33:22 AM
Oh, I acknowledge the "point" just fine, I merely note neither candidate in my view is any paragon of knowledge and competence.

And I would earnestly guess Biden would fail as well.

He does not impress me with his acumen.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 21, 2020, 09:08:55 AM
I've had a run of being good about not spending money on takeout (my favorite vice) after a batch of expenses came up. It's not that the food is bad at home, but something is just missing. Maybe later in the week. 

I feel like there's an adjective for the pride in saving a little money on something small like that. I can't recall what it is. It feels like a synonym of abstinence, but I'm not taking much pride in that. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 21, 2020, 09:13:17 AM
I've been wanting American Chinese food, but I don't know where to find it here. I need to ask the locals, I guess.

We are going to order pizza on Friday. I'm hopeful as the owner is from Chicago.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 21, 2020, 09:20:42 AM
I've been wanting American Chinese food, but I don't know where to find it here. I need to ask the locals, I guess.

We are going to order pizza on Friday. I'm hopeful as the owner is from Chicago.
I can't remember, are you a deep dish guy? I know that is polarizing for some reason.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 21, 2020, 09:23:31 AM
Thin crust. Cracker thin, and crispy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 21, 2020, 09:26:50 AM
We have not been getting pizza of late, really.  There are couple decent places about, and one new place we have gotten it for lunch a couple of times.  Grana has a nice deck partially open, might go for lunch today come to think of it.

It is pretty close to "Italian" pizza.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 21, 2020, 09:42:34 AM
Thin crust. Cracker thin, and crispy.
What's a restaurant that serves that sort? Ideally not that St. Louis nonsense.


(I miss a good deep dish. I've never had it where I live, and if I did, it would probably be Uno's unless I've fully missed a place)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 21, 2020, 09:49:23 AM
I've had a run of being good about not spending money on takeout (my favorite vice) after a batch of expenses came up. It's not that the food is bad at home, but something is just missing. Maybe later in the week.
Probably a shit ton of salt and butter :57:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 21, 2020, 09:50:21 AM
I didn't know that they did the cracker thin square cut pizza outside of Columbus. That's about all you can get there, and all I see anywhere else is some sorta hand tossed or deep dish pie cut. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: longhorn320 on October 21, 2020, 09:52:29 AM
Any and all issues with what is taught and with what it's taught can largely fall to the state legislature of Texas.  And you can guess which party they strongly lean towards.
Thank the good Lord you dont have anything to do with it
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 21, 2020, 09:57:26 AM
I did laugh at his little slip up "Biden forgot more...." 


Yes. Yes he did. Damn near all of it, it would seem. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 21, 2020, 10:07:53 AM
I often get escargot at the French place and I must say dipping the bread they serve in the residual butter stuff is amazing.

Yes, I eat snails, I am quasi-French.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 21, 2020, 10:24:14 AM
I love escargot.  And for sure, on the bread-dipping.

There's a local Italian place near us that serves mussels in a white wine/butter broth, and it's the same thing.  The mussels are great, but dipping bread in the broth might be even better...
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 21, 2020, 10:30:23 AM
I would probably eat a snail or two if I was stranded on a desert island that didn't have anything else to eat, including seafood. 

But I would probably try to eat whatever the snails were eating before I resorted to that. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 21, 2020, 10:51:45 AM
It's not that Trump is incapable of understanding how government works. He just doesn't care. 

His whole life he's been the boss and people have done whatever he tells them to do. If they don't, he fires them and replaces them with someone who does. He was the one who claimed regarding his will vs what Governors can do with reopening that "The President has total authority."

This is the first time in his life where someone, ANYONE, has pushed back with trifling issues like "your office doesn't have that authority, Mr President", or "Mr President, it's completely illegal to do that", or "Mr President, that's unconstitutional", and they actually mean it and will not do what he wants. 

I mean, Rudy and Barr are still all in on the Trump Train, but nearly everyone else is now in the wait and see mode. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 21, 2020, 10:52:26 AM
Better. 
Well, or decently. 

Here, to make us both correct:  Biden's forgotten more than Trump knows. 
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!.Biden's forgotten everthing whistle britches
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 21, 2020, 10:52:45 AM
Nope. He was a very good career politician from Chicago. Clean as they come.
Obama was the greatest PR campaign/scam pulled on the American population in the history of this country. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 21, 2020, 10:54:22 AM
I would probably eat a snail or two if I was stranded on a desert island that didn't have anything else to eat, including seafood.

But I would probably try to eat whatever the snails were eating before I resorted to that.
Prolly Algae and all sorts of dead debris,ham and chees sounds pretty good
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 21, 2020, 10:55:31 AM
Obama was the greatest PR campaign/scam pulled on the American population in the history of this country.
I duno Dubya and slick DICK Cheney are in that conversation
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 21, 2020, 11:01:31 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!.Biden's forgotten everthing whistle britches
I dunno... I watched that dumpster fire of a debate a few weeks ago and Biden actually seemed pretty solid on the facts when he had to call up actual policy or history. 

Trump doesn't use facts in his debates, so it's tough to tell if he knows any. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 21, 2020, 11:08:21 AM
It's not that Trump is incapable of understanding how government works. He just doesn't care.

His whole life he's been the boss and people have done whatever he tells them to do. If they don't, he fires them and replaces them with someone who does. He was the one who claimed regarding his will vs what Governors can do with reopening that "The President has total authority."

This is the first time in his life where someone, ANYONE, has pushed back with trifling issues like "your office doesn't have that authority, Mr President", or "Mr President, it's completely illegal to do that", or "Mr President, that's unconstitutional", and they actually mean it and will not do what he wants.

I mean, Rudy and Barr are still all in on the Trump Train, but nearly everyone else is now in the wait and see mode.
He’s actually shown great restraint as president. If Biden was in office he’d have turned Syria into a parking lot and a failed state where slavery now exists the way the Obama administration he was a part of did to Libya. Trump has pushed back on the military industrial complex hard, continually. But that also means they push back at him.

I honestly think he had no idea what he was getting into. He thought he could just go in there and impose his will and fire everyone. And in his defense he’s had to deal with an unbelievable amount of bullshit from the media, intelligence community, military industrial complex, democrats, and then...coronavirus.

Something that really sticks in my craw and disturbs me to this day is that piece of shit Chuck Schumer saying right after Trump won the election, not to step on the toes of the NSA/CIA because they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you. Disgusting comment to make by a disgusting human being. Those agencies are under direct control of the president, and they were NEVER suppose to aim their spying/disinformation campaign at the internal affairs/politics of this country or the American people.

And I will never understand people trying to bash Giuliani. Did they forgot who the hell that man is? He’s only arguably THE single most responsible person for breaking the back of the mafia and shattering it into pieces, completely cleaning up a New York City that was a crime infested shithole in the 70s and 80s, and one of the only prosecutors ever in history to anything at all about greedy Wall Street criminals when he went after Boesky and Milken in the 80s. One of the huge problems in this god damn country today is there are no prosecutors like that man out there today. They are all feckless, weak, and corrupt. Like that bitch in Chicago who cut Jussie Smollett a deal. Rudy would‘ve nailed his ass. And not in the way that fairy Smollett likes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 21, 2020, 11:12:45 AM
I dunno... I watched that dumpster fire of a debate a few weeks ago and Biden actually seemed pretty solid
I believe he is wearing a wire and indeed coached.They had sound on him last week when the cameras weren't rolling,the babble was causing me to cringe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnafho4KMiQ&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 21, 2020, 11:14:10 AM
What's a restaurant that serves that sort? Ideally not that St. Louis nonsense.


(I miss a good deep dish. I've never had it where I live, and if I did, it would probably be Uno's unless I've fully missed a place)

You can order Lou Malnati's online and bake it yourself. It's one of the best deep dish joints in Chicago. My favorite is Burt's Place, but it's a long drive now.

As for thin crust, it is widely available in the Chicago area, and by far the most popular. In Kenosha I go to Keiser's. Really good stuff.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 21, 2020, 11:17:37 AM
I dunno... I watched that dumpster fire of a debate a few weeks ago and Biden actually seemed pretty solid on the facts when he had to call up actual policy or history.

Trump doesn't use facts in his debates, so it's tough to tell if he knows any.
Lol. What “facts” do you speak of and what actual policy? Cause I didn’t see anything from Biden. 

Let’s talk some facts on Biden. He’s a criminally corrupt piece of shit, who been complicit in trading off his position as senator and Vice President in order for both his brothers and his sons to enrich themselves to the tune of millions of dollars. 

Some more facts. He voted for the Iraq war. He co-authored 4 crime bills in ‘84, ‘86, ‘88, and ‘94 that escalated the stupid war on drugs, exploded the prison population & lead to a prison construction boom- which disproportionately hurt poor black people- and literally put hundreds and hundreds of thousands of poor black people in jail.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 21, 2020, 11:19:18 AM
This is the place to go for some Chicago food.


https://www.tastesofchicago.com/category/Lou_Malnatis_Pizza?msclkid=1d782bb0f637110cbdf67420a6d24051&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=*TOC-Branded-Lou%27s-National&utm_term=lou%20to%20go&utm_content=To%20Go

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 21, 2020, 11:22:30 AM
I duno Dubya and slick DICK Cheney are in that conversation
Nah. W came from a political dynasty and was pretty much billed as the stupid hick from Texas. Which- I mean- that’s probably really what he was. 

Obama was a complete outsider that came out of nowhere, and sold
himself as this young, in touch, anti-war new age progressive. A black man named Barack Huessin Obama. Hope. Change. Lol. He was the furthest thing from that in the world. Wolf in sheep’s clothing who put the American people to sleep and did shit previous presidents could only dream of.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 21, 2020, 11:30:36 AM
I've been wanting American Chinese food, but I don't know where to find it here. I need to ask the locals, I guess.

We are going to order pizza on Friday. I'm hopeful as the owner is from Chicago.
It’s hard to find good pizza in Florida. There is a place in Miami called Lucali’s that used to be excellent, but it’s gone down hill. Lucali is a very famous pizza place in Brooklyn- that is still excellent and still run by the original owner Mark. But the one in Miami has gone down hill because it was being run by Mark’s cousin Domenic, and I think the cousin Domenic kind of left to try to build his own little restaurant/food empire and honestly it has just gone way down hill.

I’m not a fan of Chicago pizza. To me it’s not pizza. Buddy’s in Detroit is the only deep dish style pizza I can stomach at all. I like thin pizza. There is a place in Detroit called Supino’s that is very thin- and the dough/crust is almost a kind of a hybrid between the ny style and Neapolitan style- and it honestly might be the best pizza I’ve ever had anywhere. 

If you want some incredible, authentic Italian pastas and deserts there is this place in Miami Beach called pane&vino that might be the best in the entire country. It was the #1 rated restaurant in the entire US on all of TripAdvisor app. Absolutely phenomenal. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 21, 2020, 11:37:54 AM
Nah. W came from a political dynasty and was pretty much billed as the stupid hick from Texas. Which- I mean- that’s probably really what he was.

Obama was a complete outsider that came out of nowhere, and sold
himself as this young, in touch, anti-war new age progressive. A black man named Barack Huessin Obama. Hope. Change. Lol. He was the furthest thing from that in the world. Wolf in sheep’s clothing who put the American people to sleep and did shit previous presidents could only dream of.
Bullshit from Enron to sleazy fuck Cheney's Company making coin on non military shipments to War Zones when the asshole got 6 deferrments himself.It's one thing to have the spine of a gummy bear it's another to profit on something he didn't want anything to with when he certainly had no skin in the game
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on October 21, 2020, 11:52:13 AM
There's a French bakery just up the road from me that recently open. The business is run by a Hmong family. Head baker/son was born in Paris and brought to the US as a tot. Grew up in suburban MSP, went to the EBP, and put his time in other kitchens before opening his own outfit.

Everything that we've had from there is fantastic. I hope they make it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 21, 2020, 11:59:44 AM
You can order Lou Malnati's online and bake it yourself. It's one of the best deep dish joints in Chicago. My favorite is Burt's Place, but it's a long drive now.

As for thin crust, it is widely available in the Chicago area, and by far the most popular. In Kenosha I go to Keiser's. Really good stuff.
When you're talking about Chicago thin crust, are you referring to the traditional square-cut pieces with the cheese [typically] over the toppings? 

This stuff?

(https://i.imgur.com/4YC2j0O.png)

Because that I get, and it's really good stuff, but I never really considered the crust "crispy" except at the very edges. Underneath the sauce and toppings I wouldn't describe it as cracker-like either. It's firm with a good glutinous chew. But yeah, the edges outside the toppings do get crispy and almost cracker-like...

When we went last fall, I had to take my wife to Uno's for traditional deep dish, but we also went to a place downtown called Paisano's and got really good thin crust. For me the thin crust would definitely be a more "day to day" type of pizza, with deep dish being once in a very great while. 

Chicago thin crust beats the tar out of NY style pizza, and while I don't normally compare Chicago deep dish to NY pizza (they're basically different foods), Chicago thin crust is in the same category as NY style and it's far better IMHO. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 21, 2020, 12:03:51 PM
That's the stuff.

I like mine cooked longer so it gets more crispy. Any good joint will do that for you.

My favorite is Cheese, Italian Beef and Giardiniera. Beef sandwich and pizza in one.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 21, 2020, 12:06:55 PM
That's the stuff.

I like mine cooked longer so it gets more crispy. Any good joint will do that for you.

My favorite is Cheese, Italian Beef and Giardiniera. Beef sandwich and pizza in one.
How far are you from Miami? You’ve got to try that Italian restaurant I was talking about in a couple posts above. 

I want to say they have 5,000+ reviews on TripAdvisor and their average review is 5 stars. That kind of ranking is basically impossible.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 21, 2020, 12:11:25 PM
I'm in Punta Gorda, so Miami would have to be a trip of sorts. We'll find some good stuff over here. We have not been out much yet.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 21, 2020, 12:20:26 PM
Oh yeah that’s probably like a 3 hr drive. That’s a trip where you get a hotel and spend the night.

If you wind up going, check out that pane&vino for dinner and for a quick bite/sandwich for lunch hit La Sandwhicherie. French style sandwich on croissant or hard baguette. Incredible. Maybe the best sandwich I’ve ever had in US. It’s like eating a great sandwich somewhere in Europe. The bread, meats, veggies, and French vinaigrette they put on the sandwiches are just insanely good.

(https://i.imgur.com/YgO87oY.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on October 21, 2020, 12:24:20 PM
Thin crust square-cut pizza isn't just Chicago thin, it's Midwest-style pizza. As noted, it's damn hard to get the crust right under the toppings. Inevitably, it either burns or grossly undercooked. I also like the pizza cooked longer so the cheese starts to brown over, but there are also some who like their pizza barely warm enough to melt the cheese. Gross.

There's a local frozen pizza out of Brainerd that has figured the crust out. I think it's called Giovanni's or somesuch. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 21, 2020, 12:30:50 PM
I love Chicago deep dish pizza.  It's okay with me if people don't consider it to be pizza, and want to call it a casserole or something else.  All I care is that it tastes delicious.

There's a "new" style here in Austin, called "Detroit-style" which is also a deep dish, but cooked in rectangular pans.  I really like it, too.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 21, 2020, 12:33:11 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/J0zNYke.jpg)

Supino’s in Detroit ^. The owner Dave Mancini’s father is from a town in Italy called Supino- he actually went to live there for a couple of years and studied how they made pizza and came back to Detroit and started expirementing with different dough mixes and opened up his own pizza joint. Might be the best I’ve ever had anywhere. Certainly among the very tops. It’s like a cross between Neapolitan and NY. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 21, 2020, 12:37:22 PM
I love Chicago deep dish pizza.  It's okay with me if people don't consider it to be pizza, and want to call it a casserole or something else.  All I care is that it tastes delicious.

There's a "new" style here in Austin, called "Detroit-style" which is also a deep dish, but cooked in rectangular pans.  I really like it, too.
Can’t stand Chicago deep dish lol. I think it’s gross. And it’s not pizza. It’s a weird thing if you ask me.

And Detroit style certainly ain’t new! It should be called Buddy’s style pizza- and not Detroit- they invented it after all lol.

It’s basically a Sicilian style pizza but cooked in a steel auto parts pan. Buddy’s invented it in the late 1930s I want to say. Gus Guerrera was an immigrant from Sicily who ran Buddy’s in Detroit and one of the girls who worked there was from Sicily as well and somehow they decided to make the Sicilian square grandma style pizza in a blue steel auto pan and it just stuck and became a phenomenon in Detroit. 

Buddy’s is still around and it’s still excellent.  
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on October 21, 2020, 12:38:51 PM
^Thanks for the tip. We'll have to get pizza from there the next time we visit my in-laws.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 21, 2020, 01:19:44 PM
When you're talking about Chicago thin crust, are you referring to the traditional square-cut pieces with the cheese [typically] over the toppings?

This stuff?

(https://i.imgur.com/4YC2j0O.png)

Because that I get, and it's really good stuff, but I never really considered the crust "crispy" except at the very edges. Underneath the sauce and toppings I wouldn't describe it as cracker-like either. It's firm with a good glutinous chew. But yeah, the edges outside the toppings do get crispy and almost cracker-like...

When we went last fall, I had to take my wife to Uno's for traditional deep dish, but we also went to a place downtown called Paisano's and got really good thin crust. For me the thin crust would definitely be a more "day to day" type of pizza, with deep dish being once in a very great while.

Chicago thin crust beats the tar out of NY style pizza, and while I don't normally compare Chicago deep dish to NY pizza (they're basically different foods), Chicago thin crust is in the same category as NY style and it's far better IMHO.
That looks like the stuff you would get at a grimy Indiana chain I ate far too much of at one point. For the price it was good, though I don't think I've had some upscale pizza of that type.

Just another culinary adventure to take at some point. My current town has at least three pizza places I consider strong, which is a solid number in my mind. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 21, 2020, 01:21:05 PM
I love Chicago deep dish pizza.  It's okay with me if people don't consider it to be pizza, and want to call it a casserole or something else.  All I care is that it tastes delicious.

There's a "new" style here in Austin, called "Detroit-style" which is also a deep dish, but cooked in rectangular pans.  I really like it, too.


Deep dish is a sort of decadent disaster. I get why some folks aren't into it, but I certianly will enjoy on occasion. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 21, 2020, 01:22:21 PM
Oh yeah that’s probably like a 3 hr drive. That’s a trip where you get a hotel and spend the night.

If you wind up going, check out that pane&vino for dinner and for a quick bite/sandwich for lunch hit La Sandwhicherie. French style sandwich on croissant or hard baguette. Incredible. Maybe the best sandwich I’ve ever had in US. It’s like eating a great sandwich somewhere in Europe. The bread, meats, veggies, and French vinaigrette they put on the sandwiches are just insanely good.

(https://i.imgur.com/YgO87oY.jpg)
Miami is so far, but no I want to put that directly into my face. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 21, 2020, 01:24:56 PM
That looks like the stuff you would get at a grimy Indiana chain I ate far too much of at one point. For the price it was good, though I don't think I've had some upscale pizza of that type.

Just another culinary adventure to take at some point. My current town has at least three pizza places I consider strong, which is a solid number in my mind.
Madison didn't have any good pizza when I was in school. They might now, but not then. Yuck.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 21, 2020, 01:45:10 PM
Can’t stand Chicago deep dish lol. I think it’s gross. And it’s not pizza. It’s a weird thing if you ask me.

And Detroit style certainly ain’t new! It should be called Buddy’s style pizza- and not Detroit- they invented it after all lol.

It’s basically a Sicilian style pizza but cooked in a steel auto parts pan. Buddy’s invented it in the late 1930s I want to say. Gus Guerrera was an immigrant from Sicily who ran Buddy’s in Detroit and one of the girls who worked there was from Sicily as well and somehow they decided to make the Sicilian square grandma style pizza in a blue steel auto pan and it just stuck and became a phenomenon in Detroit.

Buddy’s is still around and it’s still excellent. 
It's new here, which is why I put it in quotes.  Nobody in Austin, Texas knows who Buddy is, and likely never will.

A few years back, a couple of guys from Detroit opened a place in Austin called "Via 313" and served what they called "Detroit-style" pizza.  They were successful, opened a few more locations, and then others started copying them.  Thus the "Detroit-style pizza" boom began, in Austin.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 21, 2020, 01:52:40 PM
It's new here, which is why I put it in quotes.  Nobody in Austin, Texas knows who Buddy is, and likely never will.

A few years back, a couple of guys from Detroit opened a place in Austin called "Via 313" and served what they called "Detroit-style" pizza.  They were successful, opened a few more locations, and then others started copying them.  Thus the "Detroit-style pizza" boom began, in Austin.
The Detroit style pizza boom is happening all over. There’s a bunch of Detroit style pizza places that have opened up and become very popular the last few years in the US pizza Mecca NYC. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 21, 2020, 01:53:32 PM
Lol. What “facts” do you speak of and what actual policy? Cause I didn’t see anything from Biden.

Let’s talk some facts on Biden. He’s a criminally corrupt piece of shit, who been complicit in trading off his position as senator and Vice President in order for both his brothers and his sons to enrich themselves to the tune of millions of dollars.
Again, I'd have to go rewatch the debate, and I'd sooner inject disinfectant.

I do find it strange that most of the attacks I hear on Biden seem to be projections of Trump:


I'm not excited for Biden by any means, but it seems weird that all the things Trump supporters attack him for are things Trump is an order of magnitude worse. 



Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 21, 2020, 02:03:12 PM
Thin crust square-cut pizza isn't just Chicago thin, it's Midwest-style pizza. As noted, it's damn hard to get the crust right under the toppings. Inevitably, it either burns or grossly undercooked. I also like the pizza cooked longer so the cheese starts to brown over, but there are also some who like their pizza barely warm enough to melt the cheese. Gross.

There's a local frozen pizza out of Brainerd that has figured the crust out. I think it's called Giovanni's or somesuch.
Yeah, that's one of the critical aspects of Chicago thin crust. You should see browning of the cheese on top. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 21, 2020, 02:15:29 PM
When you're talking about Chicago thin crust, are you referring to the traditional square-cut pieces with the cheese [typically] over the toppings?

This stuff?

(https://i.imgur.com/4YC2j0O.png)

Because that I get, and it's really good stuff, but I never really considered the crust "crispy" except at the very edges. Underneath the sauce and toppings I wouldn't describe it as cracker-like either. It's firm with a good glutinous chew. But yeah, the edges outside the toppings do get crispy and almost cracker-like...

When we went last fall, I had to take my wife to Uno's for traditional deep dish, but we also went to a place downtown called Paisano's and got really good thin crust. For me the thin crust would definitely be a more "day to day" type of pizza, with deep dish being once in a very great while.

Chicago thin crust beats the tar out of NY style pizza, and while I don't normally compare Chicago deep dish to NY pizza (they're basically different foods), Chicago thin crust is in the same category as NY style and it's far better IMHO.

There are places that serve it crispier than others. 
This place in Columbus was the best at super crispy but not burnt cracker crust. 

http://www.carluccispizzeria.com/
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 21, 2020, 02:18:11 PM
Prolly Algae and all sorts of dead debris,ham and chees sounds pretty good


Snails and slugs have evolved to eat just about everything; they are herbivorous, carnivorous, omnivorous, and detritivorous (eating decaying waste from plants and other animals). There are specialist and generalist species that eat worms, vegetation, rotting vegetation, animal waste, fungus, and other snails.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on October 21, 2020, 02:42:05 PM


Snails and slugs have evolved to eat just about everything; they are herbivorous, carnivorous, omnivorous, and detritivorous (eating decaying waste from plants and other animals). There are specialist and generalist species that eat worms, vegetation, rotting vegetation, animal waste, fungus, and other snails.

Will snails and slugs eat the Provel that disgraces St Louis style pizza?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 21, 2020, 02:47:00 PM
It’s basically a Sicilian style pizza but cooked in a steel auto parts pan.
Watched this on Ds,Ds & Dives and that's eactly what they used
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 21, 2020, 03:03:58 PM
so many types of pizza, so little time

similar to BBQ

many types, some better than others, but many of them very good

personal preference

someone should do a survey or a poll or have a group sign a petition
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on October 21, 2020, 03:08:11 PM
I like pizza.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 21, 2020, 03:25:19 PM

I like pizza.
Yup, me too.  I don't discriminate against styles of pizza, although there are certainly both good, and bad, examples of every style out there.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 21, 2020, 03:29:17 PM
Not a fan of deep dish but a thin crust with everything piled on is pretty good
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 21, 2020, 03:46:24 PM

There was this really crazy pizza in Ohio that would put cold cheese and pepperoni on it after it was cooked. 



(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1b/64/ea/1b64ea23141b1e21f599d644fa961f64.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 21, 2020, 03:47:51 PM
That looks terrible.

What is it with Ohio? Chili-flavored soup on spaghetti and cold shit on pizza?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 21, 2020, 03:51:00 PM
It was some sort of Steubenville delicacy that found it's way to Columbus at some point. 

It does sound weird, but I would try it once just to see what it was like. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 21, 2020, 03:51:09 PM
If you want a cheese and charcuterie board, order it separately.  Don't put it on top of an already-cooked pizza.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 21, 2020, 04:23:18 PM
We stopped by our local butcher shop and I got a prime porterhouse for $42.  I didn't notice it was prime instead of choice.

I just set it out of the fridge.  Also got two frozen duck breasts for tomorrow.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 21, 2020, 04:52:19 PM
Finally, a pizza that UTee discriminates against!!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 21, 2020, 04:56:57 PM
https://whatnowatlanta.com/taco-mac-ceo-acquires-mary-macs-will-reopen-iconic-restaurant-ahead-of-75th-anniversary/?fbclid=IwAR1QXQ-scHwBmUgoPORxfzb2js9qm_Xfup7PaXscKJgTRwSzQ_ng7VMKHtI

Some good news, I hope.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 21, 2020, 05:00:46 PM
Looks like a great place.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: ELA on October 21, 2020, 05:21:30 PM
There was this really crazy pizza in Ohio that would put cold cheese and pepperoni on it after it was cooked.



(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1b/64/ea/1b64ea23141b1e21f599d644fa961f64.jpg)
Yeah, that's awful.  It's DiCarlo's a panhandle thing.  They are around Steubenville, Wheeling, and south of Pittsburgh.  I went to the one in WHeeling one.  It was truly awful
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 21, 2020, 05:23:41 PM
Finally, a pizza that UTee discriminates against!!
I don't think we can even call that a pizza.  It's more like... a scientific experiment, gone wrong. :)

Also, I was not a big fan of the pizza I received in France, where they cracked a raw egg on top as they served it to me in my seat.  I ate it, but I didn't love it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 21, 2020, 05:46:32 PM
One of the worst pizzas I've had in the last several years was in Italy.

Of course, that was in the crappy food court in the Vatican, sitting under warming lights for God knows how long*, and was only purchased because we were starving after having spent the last 36 hours either traveling, crashed in our hotel after traveling, or walking around the Vatican without having eaten anything because we were so jet lagged and in a hurry to get to our tour.

All the other pizzas we had in Italy were excellent. We ended up having pizza in Rome, the Cinque Terre, and Florence, and it was interesting to see the stylistic differences between the three places.

 * It's the Vatican. I'd assume he would know.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 21, 2020, 05:51:45 PM
I saw a Pizza Hut in Rome.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 21, 2020, 05:59:27 PM
It was some sort of Steubenville delicacy that found it's way to Columbus at some point.

It does sound weird, but I would try it once just to see what it was like.
I think I'd try it, but it looks like an abomination. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 21, 2020, 06:28:54 PM
I saw a Pizza Hut in Rome.
(https://morganbunker.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/tumblr_m8eqefl7dx1qbbpaoo2_r1_500.gif?w=760)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 21, 2020, 07:03:48 PM
Uno's is the only "Chicago style" pizza I've tried, and it was horrid. 

I tried it twice in fact, once in an airport food court, and again out of a Casino Bowling Ally's food stand. 

So each was probably the worst version of Uno's imaginable; and Uno's is of course the Sbarro's of Chicago style pizza in the first place. 

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 21, 2020, 07:05:32 PM
One of the worst pizzas I've had in the last several years was in Italy.

Of course, that was in the crappy food court in the Vatican, sitting under warming lights for God knows how long*, and was only purchased because we were starving after having spent the last 36 hours either traveling, crashed in our hotel after traveling, or walking around the Vatican without having eaten anything because we were so jet lagged and in a hurry to get to our tour.

All the other pizzas we had in Italy were excellent. We ended up having pizza in Rome, the Cinque Terre, and Florence, and it was interesting to see the stylistic differences between the three places.

 * It's the Vatican. I'd assume he would know.
Can’t eat anywhere right by the Vatican. Tourist trap places up the ass with high prices and disgusting food. This is only certain areas in Rome, namely Vatican. Whereas I feel like in say Paris there are tourist trap places everywhere. In Paris you have to know where to go to eat.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 21, 2020, 07:19:03 PM
Uno's is the only "Chicago style" pizza I've tried, and it was horrid.

I tried it twice in fact, once in an airport food court, and again out of a Casino Bowling Ally's food stand.

So each was probably the worst version of Uno's imaginable; and Uno's is of course the Sbarro's of Chicago style pizza in the first place.
As someone who grew up with Uno's, there is a huge difference between Uno's at the corner of Wabash and Ohio on Chicago (or Due's at Wabash and Ontario) and the terrible franchise chain they created around it. It's not even remotely the same. And that's true of Uno's franchises in the Chicago area; it's not like it's even a regional thing. You go out to the suburbs to a place called Uno's and it's nothing even remotely like the original. 

That's not true of other Chicago chains like Lou Malnati's. The original Uno's and Due's are on par with Malnati's, which are pretty consistent for every one of them I've sampled across the greater Chicago metropolitan area. But the Uno's chain is absolutely not like the original, at all, full stop. 

Can’t eat anywhere right by the Vatican. Tourist trap places up the ass with high prices and disgusting food. This is only certain areas in Rome, namely Vatican. Whereas I feel like in say Paris there are tourist trap places everywhere. In Paris you have to know where to go to eat.
I was impressed with pretty much everything I ate in Italy, minus the Vatican cafe and one tourist trap in Florence. I wasn't impressed with anything I ate in Paris. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 21, 2020, 07:29:31 PM
Uno's is the only "Chicago style" pizza I've tried, and it was horrid.

I tried it twice in fact, once in an airport food court, and again out of a Casino Bowling Ally's food stand.
These aren't exactly James Beard like establishments
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 21, 2020, 07:31:58 PM
They did open a Giordano's in Columbus, which is supposed to be Chicago style done properly. But it cost a fortune, and you had to place your order over an hour in advance, and it was way too much for just me. So I never tried it. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 21, 2020, 07:40:47 PM
They did open a Giordano's in Columbus, which is supposed to be Chicago style done properly. But it cost a fortune, and you had to place your order over an hour in advance, and it was way too much for just me. So I never tried it.
Giordano's is a known Chicago chain, and although they were never my favorite, they made decent pizza. They seemed to specialize in the "stuffed" type pizza, where there was an additional layer of crust over the top of the pizza then drizzled with additional tomato sauce. 

I don't know whether a Giordano's in Columbus is representative of the original though. 

As for "way too much for just me", yeah. One pizza would probably be 4-6 meals for a normal person. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 21, 2020, 07:47:18 PM
Yeah, and it really didn't look all that appealing. Cheese looks awesome, but way too much sauce, and on top of the cheese. Looks more like Pizza soup in a bread bowl. 


(https://media.bizj.us/view/img/10497432/giordanos-screen-shot*1200xx1353-761-65-0.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 21, 2020, 07:48:35 PM
The original Uno is great, as was the Lou Malnati's location I went to in Chicago.  Of course, I'm an admitted lover of the style.

Oh also, Pizzeria Uno co-founder Ike Sewell was a University of Texas Longhorn football player, who made all-SWC and all-American honors at Guard whilst in Austin.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 21, 2020, 07:52:03 PM
Perhaps unsurprisingly, I also really like the Chicago stuffed pizza style.  I've never had the pleasure of eating Giordano's, but there's a local Austin pizza place called Mangia that makes a delicious version of the style.

(https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/04/b3/53/6e/mangia-chicago-stuffed.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 21, 2020, 07:53:39 PM
Yeah, and it really didn't look all that appealing. Cheese looks awesome, but way too much sauce, and on top of the cheese. Looks more like Pizza soup in a bread bowl.
Standard for deep dish is "sauce" above cheese. Not really "pizza sauce" though, it's usually stewed tomatoes.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 21, 2020, 08:00:02 PM
Standard for deep dish is "sauce" above cheese. Not really "pizza sauce" though, it's usually stewed tomatoes.
One problem I have with many of the thin pizzas like NY and Neopolitan, is that they're just dry AF.  I always always ALWAYS order extra sauce on these styles.

That's never an issue with deep dish pizza, which is one of the things I love about the style.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 21, 2020, 08:02:55 PM
Yeah, Columbus had a lot of good pizza. 

Tommy's 

(https://614now.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Screen-Shot-2019-12-20-at-1.51.13-PM-1024x680.png)

Joseppi's 

(https://cdn.usarestaurants.info/assets/uploads/1b8e4b6313ec9a96ba4e0b12be719eea_-united-states-ohio-franklin-county-columbus-544616-joseppis-pizza-hilltophtm.jpg)

The pizza here sucks. About the best you can do is wood fired. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on October 21, 2020, 08:26:16 PM
I think we went to Gattos after the Gopher game there a few years ago. Got a large with all the meat. It was delicious. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 21, 2020, 08:45:02 PM
Wife and I are doing low-carb right now. Thanks for making me think about pizza all day :03:
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on October 21, 2020, 08:46:40 PM
Wife and I are doing low-carb right now. Thanks for making me think about pizza all day :03:
I can't swing a cat without seeing some ad for cauliflower pizza. Have you tried that?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 21, 2020, 10:39:55 PM
Yeah, and it really didn't look all that appealing. Cheese looks awesome, but way too much sauce, and on top of the cheese. Looks more like Pizza soup in a bread bowl.


(https://media.bizj.us/view/img/10497432/giordanos-screen-shot*1200xx1353-761-65-0.jpg)
As a person who always likes a bread bowl, that sounds mostly fine.

I think part of the appeal for me is I get it like very once in a blue moon. Unless I'm in Chicago or get it from one very good place at home, I don't think I would go for it. The place I get it it at home has an interesting thin crust, very crispy, cornmeal on the bottom of the crust, not hyper thin, cheese a little browned on the top. Highly good.

One other thing I've not figured out, when I go back to Ca. I've yet to find a BBQ place I'm excited about. And I've had two great briskets in NY, so why can't Oakland get some lost Texan or Southerner who can do that worth a crap?
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 21, 2020, 11:02:38 PM
Again, I'd have to go rewatch the debate, and I'd sooner inject disinfectant.

I do find it strange that most of the attacks I hear on Biden seem to be projections of Trump:




I'm not excited for Biden by any means, but it seems weird that all the things Trump supporters attack him for are things Trump is an order of magnitude worse.
I said the same thing about 20 pages back.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 21, 2020, 11:03:13 PM
Pizza is good.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 21, 2020, 11:47:38 PM
I can't swing a cat without seeing some ad for cauliflower pizza. Have you tried that?
Yes. They sell a decent one at Costco and we keep it in the rotation. It's not quite the same, and of course we plan our menu in advance so tonight was already teriyaki salmon and sweet chili sauce Brussels sprouts. So I couldn't quite do pizza anyway. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 21, 2020, 11:51:22 PM
Yes. They sell a decent one at Costco and we keep it in the rotation. It's not quite the same, and of course we plan our menu in advance so tonight was already teriyaki salmon and sweet chili sauce Brussels sprouts. So I couldn't quite do pizza anyway.
Even if I kinda dislike teriyaki, that's a good combo. Probably flavorful enough it could almost carry me through a low-carb life. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Mdot21 on October 22, 2020, 12:50:34 AM
Speaking of Costco, those chickens they sell for $5 are insane.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 22, 2020, 06:56:17 AM
Uno's is the only "Chicago style" pizza I've tried, and it was horrid.

I tried it twice in fact, once in an airport food court, and again out of a Casino Bowling Ally's food stand.

So each was probably the worst version of Uno's imaginable; and Uno's is of course the Sbarro's of Chicago style pizza in the first place.
Chicagoans don't go to Uno's.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 22, 2020, 06:57:34 AM
As someone who grew up with Uno's, there is a huge difference between Uno's at the corner of Wabash and Ohio on Chicago (or Due's at Wabash and Ontario) and the terrible franchise chain they created around it. It's not even remotely the same. And that's true of Uno's franchises in the Chicago area; it's not like it's even a regional thing. You go out to the suburbs to a place called Uno's and it's nothing even remotely like the original.

That's not true of other Chicago chains like Lou Malnati's. The original Uno's and Due's are on par with Malnati's, which are pretty consistent for every one of them I've sampled across the greater Chicago metropolitan area. But the Uno's chain is absolutely not like the original, at all, full stop.

Exactly this.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 22, 2020, 07:00:00 AM
I can't swing a cat without seeing some ad for cauliflower pizza. Have you tried that?
I tried that. Once.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 22, 2020, 07:02:21 AM
I've been to Giordano's. Once.

Been to Lou's many times, and I actually like their version of Chicago pizza. I ordered a 6 pack last night. They'll be here today. Got some Portillo's beef coming too.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 22, 2020, 08:46:22 AM
I've been to Giordano's. Once.

Been to Lou's many times, and I actually like their version of Chicago pizza. I ordered a 6 pack last night. They'll be here today. Got some Portillo's beef coming too.
So the frozen Lou pizzas taste okay at home?  I've been thinking about trying it out.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 22, 2020, 08:48:52 AM
Yep, we've done them before. There was a takeout only location where I used to live and we'd take and bake rather than bring a cooked one home. Give it a shot. I got 2 veggie, 2 sausage, 2 pep and one spinach (1 free with 6 - expired last night).
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MarqHusker on October 22, 2020, 08:53:17 AM
They opened a Lou's here in Carmel this month.  I remember it being fine the many years ago I went there.  Not particularly fond of the Chicago style pies/pizza simulation product. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 22, 2020, 09:39:57 AM
They opened a Lou's here in Carmel this month.  I remember it being fine the many years ago I went there.  Not particularly fond of the Chicago style pies/pizza simulation product.
Carmel? Well ain't you fancy.

My Indy knowledge is not super deep, but Bazbeaux was always a go-to when in town. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 22, 2020, 09:40:47 AM
Exactly this.
The first time I had deep dish in Chi, it was Unos, because a resident directed us there. It certianly had the feel of not a chain. Granted, now I'd hit up the other places. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 22, 2020, 09:49:05 AM
Man I want pizza now.  Tomorrow night, I'm either grabbing a stuffed deep dish pizza from Mangia, or a standard deep dish pizza from my favorite pizza place in Austin, named Conan's.

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/MZzJDBrlKIqRPP7WLKraiadpy4A=/0x0:1000x750/920x613/filters:focal(390x284:550x444):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/60101113/conans_pizza_deep_dish.0.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 22, 2020, 09:53:06 AM
I'm having Lou's tomorrow night, for the Badger game. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 22, 2020, 10:03:26 AM
Has anyone ever completed a large Chicago style pizza by their lonesome? I know it is a lot, but there are people that can eat 72 oz steaks, hundreds of hot dogs, etc. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 22, 2020, 10:05:50 AM

Hell, Cincydawg once put away about 10 lbs of the cincinnati chili. O0

(https://www.fox19.com/resizer/ObMPxQaP3VeibKWmNVP72Z0hSDM=/1200x0/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-raycom.s3.amazonaws.com/public/RQLKQXBGWZANVDML5WLBM3WSKE.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 22, 2020, 10:07:06 AM
Never tried the challenge, but that was my favorite place for CC.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on October 22, 2020, 10:11:01 AM
Second the motion for frozen Lou Malnati's. We've bought the frozen pies both online and in person before, and they are delicious baked.

Lou's is the favorite Chicago pizza of myself and all my acquaintances. There is a location near an exit on the Northwest Tollway west of O'Hare that we've frequently stopped at on our way to and from Michigan.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 22, 2020, 10:16:04 AM
Now I want pizza for dinner, and we're about to head to Costco, who has decent pizza.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 22, 2020, 10:31:04 AM
Second the motion for frozen Lou Malnati's. We've bought the frozen pies both online and in person before, and they are delicious baked.

Lou's is the favorite Chicago pizza of myself and all my acquaintances. There is a location near an exit on the Northwest Tollway west of O'Hare that we've frequently stopped at on our way to and from Michigan.
That's the one we went to when I was a kid. I grew up in that area.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 22, 2020, 10:51:34 AM
One other thing I've not figured out, when I go back to Ca. I've yet to find a BBQ place I'm excited about. And I've had two great briskets in NY, so why can't Oakland get some lost Texan or Southerner who can do that worth a crap?
most folks that are good at BBQ are not liberals and do not want to pay more taxes.
sorry
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 22, 2020, 11:08:31 AM
most folks that are good at BBQ are not liberals and do not want to pay more taxes.
sorry
Ha!

But, why would one be able to find good brisket in NY then? :)

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 22, 2020, 11:12:37 AM
most folks that are good at BBQ are not liberals and do not want to pay more taxes.
sorry
Sure. But I don’t need most folks. I need a few folks. If NYC can have that, damn sure we can. 

(The intersections are interesting. Austin has good BBQ. Folks from traditionally left-leaning demos are often good at BBQ. And even in a competitive market, some foodie jack wagon will pay $22 for a 2-meat plate. Shoot, we got a new place where I pay near that much now, and this part of the world is right in that wheelhouse)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MaximumSam on October 22, 2020, 11:22:05 AM
Sure. But I don’t need most folks. I need a few folks. If NYC can have that, damn sure we can.

(The intersections are interesting. Austin has good BBQ. Folks from traditionally left-leaning demos are often good at BBQ. And even in a competitive market, some foodie jack wagon will pay $22 for a 2-meat plate. Shoot, we got a new place where I pay near that much now, and this part of the world is right in that wheelhouse)
The good thing about BBQ is that it can be pretty easy to do yourself, then you don't have to full around paying 22 bucks for a plate.  Heck, Kroger had a special of brisket for 2 bucks a pound the other day - I cooked a whole 14 pound brisket for 24 bucks.  That'll get you more than 1 plate.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 22, 2020, 11:29:14 AM
Sure. But I don’t need most folks. I need a few folks. If NYC can have that, damn sure we can.

(The intersections are interesting. Austin has good BBQ. Folks from traditionally left-leaning demos are often good at BBQ. And even in a competitive market, some foodie jack wagon will pay $22 for a 2-meat plate. Shoot, we got a new place where I pay near that much now, and this part of the world is right in that wheelhouse)
The majority of people in Central Texas that are cooking good BBQ, aren't left-leaning, I can promise you that.  Austin may be a liberal town, but the stereotype of a meat-eating, gun-toting Texan isn't far off when it comes to the people that actually own and cook at BBQ restaurants.  Aaron Franklin being a notable exception, of course.  But he's certainly not representative.

The good thing about BBQ is that it can be pretty easy to do yourself, then you don't have to full around paying 22 bucks for a plate.  Heck, Kroger had a special of brisket for 2 bucks a pound the other day - I cooked a whole 14 pound brisket for 24 bucks.  That'll get you more than 1 plate.

For sure, it's way cheaper to make your own.  But not everyone wants to invest 8-16 hours smoking a brisket on their own, every time they want some delicious brisket.  I love making BBQ, but not even I want to do it myself every time I have a hankering.  Good thing I have plenty of good bbq joints all around me.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 22, 2020, 11:32:47 AM
The good thing about BBQ is that it can be pretty easy to do yourself, then you don't have to full around paying 22 bucks for a plate.  Heck, Kroger had a special of brisket for 2 bucks a pound the other day - I cooked a whole 14 pound brisket for 24 bucks.  That'll get you more than 1 plate.
This. 

Come on down to SoCal, @bayareabadger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1571) with a case of Russian River Blind Pig IPA in tow, and I'll show ya the ropes ;-) 

That said, I think part of it is that people here in CA don't even know what good BBQ is. People think if you slap BBQ sauce on something it's BBQ. The issue will be that outside of the aficionados who REALLY know BBQ, the good BBQ won't distinguish itself from the mediocre BBQ joints. 

I think of it similar to where beer was a decade ago. Places like CA, OR, CO, MI, and portions of the Northeast had great beer. In those areas, very few breweries weren't good, because they were a stone's throw from a place with much better beer, and any consumer that tried both learned the difference pretty quickly. Outside of those places, there were breweries and brewpubs, but a lot of them frankly sucked. The reason for it is that people didn't know the difference between good and bad craft beer, so the bad breweries could survive more on novelty than on quality. It's now grown to the point where palates have gotten better across the country such that bad craft beer is called out as bad craft beer, and everyone has had to up their game, regardless of where they're located. 

I don't think BBQ has hit that inflection point yet. Mediocre BBQ in Texas will get run out of town. Mediocre BBQ in California will make the owner rich. 

Hence Lucille's (https://lucillesbbq.com/). 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 22, 2020, 11:36:30 AM

I'm afraid to try the BBQ out here.  

Of course Columbus only had decent BBQ for the last 10 to 15 years or so. Before that Damon's was about as good as it got, which is not good. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 22, 2020, 11:40:54 AM
no good BBQ in my area, have to drive at least 90 miles to find some

it's a shame, there was a very good BBQ place, but it closed about 5 years ago.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 22, 2020, 11:43:25 AM
The majority of people in Central Texas that are cooking good BBQ, aren't left-leaning, I can promise you that.  Austin may be a liberal town, but the stereotype of a meat-eating, gun-toting Texan isn't far off when it comes to the people that actually own and cook at BBQ restaurants.  Aaron Franklin being a notable exception, of course.  But he's certainly not representative.
I was trying to dance around it. I was under the impression there were a not insignificant number of black pit masters. But I might be wrong there. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 22, 2020, 11:45:12 AM
no good BBQ in my area, have to drive at least 90 miles to find some

it's a shame, there was a very good BBQ place, but it closed about 5 years ago.
Time for a career change. Now is the perfect time to open a restaurant.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 22, 2020, 11:45:57 AM
Maybe Utee will move here and open a killer BBQ joint!
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 22, 2020, 11:51:47 AM
Maybe Utee will move here and open a killer BBQ joint!
Bwahahahaha


Tell you what, let's both move to a tropical island in the Carribbean, and I'll make all the BBQ either one of us can eat.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 22, 2020, 11:53:00 AM
that's a better plan

I'm in
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 22, 2020, 11:54:47 AM
I was trying to dance around it. I was under the impression there were a not insignificant number of black pit masters. But I might be wrong there.
Ah, I see where you're going there.

It's probably much more common in the Deep South, than it is over here in Texico.

There are a few black pitmasters in Central Texas, but the origins of Central Texas BBQ are really more in the German and Czech meat markets, and the communities that surrounded them.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 22, 2020, 12:00:30 PM
Time for a career change. Now is the perfect time to open a restaurant.


In googling it there are five BBQ joints, which is more than I expected. 

Take a look at these and tell me which one you would take a flier on. 

DUBs: https://www.dubsbarbq.com/
Dickey's: https://www.dickeys.com/
BBQ Pitstop: https://www.bbqpitstop.com/
Rib and Chop house: https://www.ribandchop.com/
BBQ Hut: http://www.bbqhututah.com/

Now I know enough to rule out Dickey's right from the get go. It doesn't appear to have an outdoor pit, and it looks like a fast food chain. At best it might be City BBQ quality, but I doubt it. 

Rib and Chop probably looks the best, but it also looks like it is the kind of joint that would charge over $22 a plate. 

Which one would you guys be brave enough to try? 

As far as opening a BBQ joint, there is indeed a lot of potential here. The region is known as "Utah's Dixie" and they take a lot of pride in that. As such a southern themed eatery with over the top Dixie references would be a killer. There are a lot of unique regional sides as well (google "funeral potatoes") that would give it the Dixie flavor with a Utah twist. 

But as discussed upthread, the food industry kind of blows, and most restaurants fail quickly, especially with Covid restrictions. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 22, 2020, 12:01:12 PM
not Dickey's

it's a chain

the Hut and the pitstop don't cook anything

so you're down to DUBS and the chop house

neither look promising

I'd try DUBS, heck Dickey's might be your best option

and that would be bad
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 22, 2020, 12:25:10 PM
I was trying to dance around it. I was under the impression there were a not insignificant number of black pit masters. But I might be wrong there.

In Columbus I must have tried at least five black run BBQ joints, including one that was owned and operated by a bunch of former Buckeyes, and they were all horrid. The sauce was like syrup; all sweet and no spice. You got a sugar rush after the first few bites. They all just gave you a slice of Wonder Bread on the side. Literally Wonder Bread. The guys that I went with to the one that was run by Buckeyes tried to order the sauce on the side. They took their money and waited for us to sit down, then they sent out some clueless girl to tell us that they can't make it without sauce because they toss all of their smoked meats into a bucket of sauce as soon as they are done cooking it. So it came out, and it was just swimming with sauce. Now I don't know what the bruthas in the South are cooking up, but midwestern "hood BBQ" sucks ass. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 22, 2020, 12:37:26 PM
Definitely DUBs. It looks like the only actual BBQ joint of the group (with the exception of Dickey's, which you can rule out immediately).

I would give DUBs a shot. It might not be great, but from looking at the menu and web site they're at least saying the right things. Pics on Yelp look good too.

As with any BBQ spot that doesn't do the Franklin style "sell until you run out" kind of place, I would only get something like brisket if you're there for the lunch or dinner rush. If you're off-hours, something might have been sitting in a warming oven for hours or has already been sliced, and that's how you get dry brisket. 

Rib & Chop house looks like a steakhouse. Yeah, they have ribs, but per their menu they are cooked in an oven and then finished on a grill, not smoked. That's not BBQ. To be fair, they're probably delicious. But it's a different thing. And there's no other actual "BBQ" meats.

The Hut and Pit Stop might actually be your best bet. True, they don't cook anything. But you can buy yourself a smoker and do it right yourself instead :72: 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 22, 2020, 12:43:09 PM
There were some really good black-owned BBQ joints in Chicago, mostly on the South side, and mostly with pork being the star. Not a lot of brisket down there, but there were a few.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: GopherRock on October 22, 2020, 12:54:03 PM
That said, I think part of it is that people here in CA don't even know what good BBQ is. People think if you slap BBQ sauce on something it's BBQ. The issue will be that outside of the aficionados who REALLY know BBQ, the good BBQ won't distinguish itself from the mediocre BBQ joints.
There are some parts of western Minnesota and the Dakotas that will swear up and down that a sloppy joe is a "barbecue".
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: bayareabadger on October 22, 2020, 01:48:33 PM
In Columbus I must have tried at least five black run BBQ joints, including one that was owned and operated by a bunch of former Buckeyes, and they were all horrid. The sauce was like syrup; all sweet and no spice. You got a sugar rush after the first few bites. They all just gave you a slice of Wonder Bread on the side. Literally Wonder Bread. The guys that I went with to the one that was run by Buckeyes tried to order the sauce on the side. They took their money and waited for us to sit down, then they sent out some clueless girl to tell us that they can't make it without sauce because they toss all of their smoked meats into a bucket of sauce as soon as they are done cooking it. So it came out, and it was just swimming with sauce. Now I don't know what the bruthas in the South are cooking up, but midwestern "hood BBQ" sucks ass.
I could see that. The middle middle west seems extremely not adept at BBQ for some reason. 

There's a pretty quality place I've tried in Lexington, so Ohio adjacent. I recall someone suggesting a place in Cincinnati, but I read the reviews and it sounded all wrong. 
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 22, 2020, 02:16:03 PM
A top BBQ place here, long closed, was called Harold's, and he served a piece of white bread with it, and never beer, he said "Momma won't let me serve beer>"

It was down near the Federal pen.

We've tried 5 or 6 local places and only Fox Bros. is what I'd called good.  There aren't that many around really, in the 'burbs they have chains like Sonny's.

I got used to eastern Carolina BBQ and like that when I can get it.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 22, 2020, 02:24:20 PM
Dickey's is a terribad chain, the kind you find in airports all around the country, if that tells you anything.

Still, given the options, it might actually be the best available...

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 22, 2020, 02:33:39 PM
Bbq might just be one of those things that I will have to get on a Vegas run.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 22, 2020, 02:36:28 PM
I could see that. The middle middle west seems extremely not adept at BBQ for some reason.

There's a pretty quality place I've tried in Lexington, so Ohio adjacent. I recall someone suggesting a place in Cincinnati, but I read the reviews and it sounded all wrong.
Nevertheless, I would proceed with extreme caution. Get a pulled pork sandwich. If it is done up right, great. Go nuts. But it will probably suck, and you'll be glad that you didn't buy pounds of meat that tastes like cinnamon flavored sugar.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 22, 2020, 02:40:41 PM
The main chain here is Sonny's.  We stop there for lunch on occasion if we're driving.  It's in the "not bad" category.

City BBQ is another chain that is better than Sonny's, quite a bit better IMHO, but it's a small chain, and they do use wood offset smokers.

There was one near us in Cincy and I liked going there.

They have some here somewhere.  We had lunch today at Canoe, which is one of the prettiest restaurants around.  It's right on the Chattahoochee river (which is UP right now).

https://www.canoeatl.com/

(https://i.imgur.com/Gikux1o.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 22, 2020, 03:51:00 PM
Cincy, have you tried Williamson Brothers BBQ up in Marietta? When I lived there I found it pretty decent.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 22, 2020, 03:58:19 PM
A top BBQ place here, long closed, was called Harold's, and he served a piece of white bread with it, and never beer, he said "Momma won't let me serve beer>"

It was down near the Federal pen.

We've tried 5 or 6 local places and only Fox Bros. is what I'd called good.  There aren't that many around really, in the 'burbs they have chains like Sonny's.

I got used to eastern Carolina BBQ and like that when I can get it.
I like Sonny's.
The BBQ joint I went to most frequently here in Phoenix is now some other restaurant, so that's fun. 
Bobby Qs is good, but fancyish for a BBQ place. 

I like mustard-based Carolina style as a change-up sometimes, but can't imagine is being my norm.  As I've said before, in Phx, it's hard to find a place that has sweet tea AND hushpuppies, much less a passionate pitmaster in the back.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 22, 2020, 04:09:31 PM
I like Sonny's.
The BBQ joint I went to most frequently here in Phoenix is now some other restaurant, so that's fun. 
Bobby Qs is good, but fancyish for a BBQ place. 

I like mustard-based Carolina style as a change-up sometimes, but can't imagine is being my norm.  As I've said before, in Phx, it's hard to find a place that has sweet tea AND hushpuppies, much less a passionate pitmaster in the back.
I know it's not Q, but have you been to this place? If not, go.


https://www.thearrogantbutcher.com/
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 22, 2020, 04:43:32 PM
menu looks good

"Smashed Potato"
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 22, 2020, 04:47:20 PM
Cincy might appreciate this story.................

A young couple who ordered an $18 Pinot Noir at Balthazar in New York found themselves enjoying Mouton Rothschild 1989 listed at $2,000 following a mix-up, according to owner Keith McNally.

https://www.decanter.com/wine-news/new-york-restaurant-mistake-mouton-rothschild-1989-446051-446051/ (https://www.decanter.com/wine-news/new-york-restaurant-mistake-mouton-rothschild-1989-446051-446051/)
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: utee94 on October 22, 2020, 05:01:08 PM
Wow!  That's a pretty major mistake.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 22, 2020, 05:09:46 PM
Holy ouch.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 22, 2020, 05:24:07 PM
Weird, many folks (including me) don't think pinot should be decanted as a general rule.  And the wine bottles should be shown to the diner and opened in front of them, not carried out back to decant.

And anyone with any knowledge of Bordeaux should KNOW that an $18 is NOT Bordeaux in any way, shape, or form.

I'm surprised they'd have a pinot at that price point.

Also, the Bordeaux probably cost the restaurant more like $400 or so.

A pinot that is $18 at a restaurant would probably cost $8 retail, and $5 to the restaurant, if that.  The cheapest wines at a decent restaurant around here start at $35 or so.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 22, 2020, 05:24:52 PM
Cincy, have you tried Williamson Brothers BBQ up in Marietta? When I lived there I found it pretty decent.
Nope, that is a bit of a drive for us, but our Costco is up that way.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: FearlessF on October 22, 2020, 05:26:10 PM
yes, I find it hard to find an $18 bottle of wine at the trash eateries I frequent
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: Cincydawg on October 22, 2020, 05:32:07 PM
One thing about cheap US pinot, they often add some syrah to it to give it apparent heft.  Pinot can be a bit of an acquired taste, and adding pinot makes it more like merlot or cab.  This is a cheap trick to take cheap pinot and make it taste like something, and pinot is hard to grow.

There is a popular brand that does this, Meomi, but it's $18-20 retail, more like $40 in restaurants.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2020, 06:46:25 AM
Not a pinot fan at all.

Give me a big Zin or a Barbera and I'm happy.
Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on October 23, 2020, 07:23:53 AM
Cincy might appreciate this story.................

A young couple who ordered an $18 Pinot Noir at Balthazar in New York found themselves enjoying Mouton Rothschild 1989 listed at $2,000 following a mix-up, according to owner Keith McNally.

https://www.decanter.com/wine-news/new-york-restaurant-mistake-mouton-rothschild-1989-446051-446051/ (https://www.decanter.com/wine-news/new-york-restaurant-mistake-mouton-rothschild-1989-446051-446051/)
Somebody once gave me a Schmidt's when I ordered a Gennesee - is that the same thing?Or maybe it was a Kentucky Tavern when I ordered a Beam
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2020, 07:24:22 AM
So, what's everyone up to this year?

It's a big one for us as Mrs. 847 is retiring in March.

We just got back from Cabo, and we'll head to Florida next month, for a week.

Then, in March (after the retirement), we head to Lima, Peru to hop on a cruise ship. It will make its way to Miami, via the Panama Canal (that the USA built and Carter gave away). This has been on my list for a long time, so I'm really excited.

We'll probably end up buying a home in Florida this year.



So, all of this happened except the cruise. Dammit China.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 23, 2020, 07:43:16 AM
I'd consider you fairly lucky all in all
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on October 23, 2020, 09:28:40 AM
Not a pinot fan at all.

Give me a big Zin or a Barbera and I'm happy.
I have found that many wine drinkers evolve though the same basic phases:

Sweet wines to start (BF etc.)

Chardonnay, the oaky buttery US versions

Zinfandel, the jammy high alcohol types

Cab and merlot, a lot of folks just stop here (which is not a bad place to stop really, venturing into Italian types)

Pinot Noir (initially the US stuff and then Bourgogne)

Chardonnay (the French stuff like Chablis or GC)

Bubbles get in here somewhere

Dry Riesling

It's a bit surprising, but the two master sommeliers I have chatted with list Riesling as their top wines.  They don't export much of the good stuff to the US.

The wife loves Champagne, though I have talked her into some less expensive US types and Cremant.  I like everything, not equally well of course.  I lean to favoring anything good from Burgundy.

Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2020, 09:34:10 AM
I like Prosecco, but since it's been outed it's gotten much more expensive. The Spanish version is still not easy to find. I wish I could transport my old liquor store to here.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 23, 2020, 09:40:21 AM
I have found that many wine drinkers evolve though the same basic phases:

Sweet wines to start (BF etc.)

Chardonnay, the oaky buttery US versions

Zinfandel, the jammy high alcohol types

Cab and merlot, a lot of folks just stop here (which is not a bad place to stop really, venturing into Italian types)

Pinot Noir (initially the US stuff and then Bourgogne)

Chardonnay (the French stuff like Chablis or GC)

Bubbles get in here somewhere

Dry Riesling

I'm at Cab and Merlot.
Might not ever make any farther
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2020, 09:42:54 AM
I'm not evolving. Well, maybe. Just ordered a case of Chianti Classico from my favorite Tuscan winery, La Sala.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 23, 2020, 09:48:02 AM
I like the Malbecs and Cabs with beef
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on October 23, 2020, 09:55:28 AM
Borat 2 was surprisingly hilarious. I just thought it was bound to suck as Sascha Baron Cohen and his characters have just become too famous- thought it would be too hard to fool/trick people- and because sequels almost always disappoint. Pleasantly surprised. And that guy is a genius man. How he stays in character and never breaks astounds me.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on October 23, 2020, 10:07:05 AM
I like Prosecco, but since it's been outed it's gotten much more expensive. The Spanish version is still not easy to find. I wish I could transport my old liquor store to here.
The wife buys a LOT of the Kirkland prosecco, it's $7 per bottle, and quaffable.  

Even folks who have evolved still like cabs etc. of course.  Some of the great wines are cab blends obviously.

We had grilled steelhead trout last night with a Regusci Rose' of pinot.  Steelhead trout is about my favorite fish.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: GopherRock on October 23, 2020, 10:23:20 AM
I'm not evolving. Well, maybe. Just ordered a case of Chianti Classico from my favorite Tuscan winery, La Sala.
Last New Years Eve, when in Florence, we went on a winery tour out into the Tuscan countryside. The tour bus was full of Americans. When we left Florence, it was 9 AM and everyone was pretty quiet listening to the tour guide. By the end of the day, everyone was trashed and were yelling and laughing like we'd known each other forever. We did have a full case of one of the wineries shipped here.

I also demolished a 800g bisteca Florentina later that night. It was a good day.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2020, 10:36:57 AM
Which tour did you do? Do you remember the name and the places you saw?
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 23, 2020, 10:44:00 AM
(https://i.pinimg.com/474x/8f/18/7c/8f187cbe4e5a54e4b42fad07ba2f460c.jpg)
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 23, 2020, 10:50:41 AM
I like Prosecco, but since it's been outed it's gotten much more expensive. The Spanish version is still not easy to find. I wish I could transport my old liquor store to here.
My wife likes the Kirkland prosecco quite a bit, and it's $6.99/btl here in SoCal. Not sure how FL excise taxes compare to CA (it's one of the few things that isn't horribly taxed here in CA) but you may want to give it a try. 
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2020, 10:54:28 AM
Thanks for the tip. I will try that.

Costco expires in about a month for us, and we'll not renew. Sam's is much closer to us.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: GopherRock on October 23, 2020, 11:15:08 AM
Which tour did you do? Do you remember the name and the places you saw?
We booked our tour through Tuscan Grape Tours, their office is on south bank of the Arno just east of the Ponte Vecchio. The first place we went was Castello Sonnino. I don't remember where the other two places were, the details got a little hazy as the afternoon went on.

https://www.tuscan-wine-tours.com/

The dinner was at Trattoria Panemonio de case Brogi. 
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: utee94 on October 23, 2020, 11:46:52 AM
Yup Kirkland Presecco is decent.  We buy that a lot.

Spanish Cava is pretty easy to find around here, and in that same price range of $6-$8.  I tend to like it even better than Italian Prosecco or French Champagne, but I'm good with any of them.

I'm sure I've stated around here before, that my favorite wines are French.  Bordeaux specifically, and more specifically than that, Left Bank, although there are some Right Bank appelations I enjoy as well.  And I also really like some Bourgogne and Cotes du Rhone.

So, a mix of varietals for me, but what comes through more than that for me, is the soil and environment, or if you want to be a snooty French, the terroir. And, of course, the process associated with each appelation, chateau, or mark.


Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 23, 2020, 11:57:49 AM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/bNf2uoymsm2QAAyFdXrO4U-g7i7FsI98g5_1ddCPqTq7TsSFCR_00fmhVHTXSUZF-PtcMWCrSh6YsjzTd8xaW8ECOlFJFQXgl-oZDwBWdTXeKOajxo_e7KA)
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2020, 12:05:54 PM
We booked our tour through Tuscan Grape Tours, their office is on south bank of the Arno just east of the Ponte Vecchio. The first place we went was Castello Sonnino. I don't remember where the other two places were, the details got a little hazy as the afternoon went on.

https://www.tuscan-wine-tours.com/

The dinner was at Trattoria Panemonio de case Brogi.
That's the one we were on. We did the signature tour.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: utee94 on October 23, 2020, 12:07:49 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q41SwDf2CU
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 23, 2020, 02:41:21 PM
The Big Ten Conference is kicking off the football season with the launch of the ‘United As One’ social justice campaign.  ‘United As One’ is among several conference-wide Equality Coalition initiatives dedicated to constructively and collectively recognizing and eliminating racism and hate in our society by creating resources for inclusion, empowerment and accountability.

“All things are possible in the Big Ten when we unite as one,” said Big Ten Commissioner Kevin Warren. “I am humbled and deeply appreciative of how our 14 member institutions have communicated, collaborated and committed to develop a conference-wide campaign focused on creating equality and equity in our society.”



https://bigten.org/news/2020/10/23/football-big-ten-conference-launches-united-as-one.aspx (https://bigten.org/news/2020/10/23/football-big-ten-conference-launches-united-as-one.aspx)
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 23, 2020, 03:17:59 PM
Pizzeria Lola in Minneapolis, the groundbreaking restaurant from James Beard Award winning chef Ann Kim is now selling its pizza in frozen form. Since its inception in 2010, the eatery has been known for its wood-fire charred crust, perfect cheese to sauce ratio and the delight of a pepperoni that curled when it heats up. It has also been so popular that snagging a seat during peak times was difficult. After months of research and development the chef said they perfected the art of getting that perfect pizza to freeze.

There are five varieties available including Hawaiian, old reliable cheese, My-Sharoni, and more. All are available to order online for pick up at the restaurant.

Pizzeria Lola joins other popular, small, local pizza restaurants Mucci’s and Red Wagon in offering frozen, bake-at-home varieties.


https://twincities.eater.com/2020/10/23/21530166/ann-kim-pizzeria-lola-frozen-pizza-to-go-minneapolis (https://twincities.eater.com/2020/10/23/21530166/ann-kim-pizzeria-lola-frozen-pizza-to-go-minneapolis)

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/fZ1UmMnfCkxztxgCiwx5IeJIswM=/0x0:960x640/1200x800/filters:focal(157x239:309x391)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/67677562/Young_Joni_pizza_cr_FB.0.jpg)
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on October 23, 2020, 05:01:51 PM
I was 16 years old before I tasted my first pizza, true story.  I was 17 when I first had "Mexican".

Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2020, 05:10:27 PM
Pizzeria Lola in Minneapolis, the groundbreaking restaurant from James Beard Award winning chef Ann Kim is now selling its pizza in frozen form. Since its inception in 2010, the eatery has been known for its wood-fire charred crust, perfect cheese to sauce ratio and the delight of a pepperoni that curled when it heats up. It has also been so popular that snagging a seat during peak times was difficult. After months of research and development the chef said they perfected the art of getting that perfect pizza to freeze.

There are five varieties available including Hawaiian, old reliable cheese, My-Sharoni, and more. All are available to order online for pick up at the restaurant.

Pizzeria Lola joins other popular, small, local pizza restaurants Mucci’s and Red Wagon in offering frozen, bake-at-home varieties.


https://twincities.eater.com/2020/10/23/21530166/ann-kim-pizzeria-lola-frozen-pizza-to-go-minneapolis (https://twincities.eater.com/2020/10/23/21530166/ann-kim-pizzeria-lola-frozen-pizza-to-go-minneapolis)

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/fZ1UmMnfCkxztxgCiwx5IeJIswM=/0x0:960x640/1200x800/filters:focal(157x239:309x391)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/67677562/Young_Joni_pizza_cr_FB.0.jpg)
Pickup only. If she shipped, I'd try it. Looks really good.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 23, 2020, 08:10:43 PM
I was 16 years old before I tasted my first pizza, true story.  I was 17 when I first had "Mexican".


I weep for you. 
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 23, 2020, 09:32:15 PM
I was 16 years old before I tasted my first pizza, true story.  I was 17 when I first had "Mexican".



You hooked up with your first senorita when you were only 17? :13:
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 23, 2020, 09:41:51 PM
it's really not that bad

ya don't know what yer missin
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on October 24, 2020, 07:42:05 AM
My physical therapist asked me the other day if I had ever done a cheerleader (which is a trivial name for a kind of shoulder exercise).

I almost said "not since high school".

I think she would have laughed.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: utee94 on October 24, 2020, 03:12:04 PM
My physical therapist asked me the other day if I had ever done a cheerleader (which is a trivial name for a kind of shoulder exercise).

I almost said "not since high school".

I think she would have laughed.
My i s c & a aggie wife was a cheerleader at our high school.  So, well, there you have it.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 24, 2020, 03:44:19 PM

Have what? Another guy that hasn't done a cheerleader since HS?

:D
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: utee94 on October 24, 2020, 04:27:26 PM
Have what? Another guy that hasn't done a cheerleader since HS?

:D
Ha! Well played, sir.

Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 25, 2020, 10:56:21 AM
This.

Come on down to SoCal, @bayareabadger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1571) with a case of Russian River Blind Pig IPA in tow, and I'll show ya the ropes ;-)

That said, I think part of it is that people here in CA don't even know what good BBQ is. People think if you slap BBQ sauce on something it's BBQ. The issue will be that outside of the aficionados who REALLY know BBQ, the good BBQ won't distinguish itself from the mediocre BBQ joints.

I think of it similar to where beer was a decade ago. Places like CA, OR, CO, MI, and portions of the Northeast had great beer. In those areas, very few breweries weren't good, because they were a stone's throw from a place with much better beer, and any consumer that tried both learned the difference pretty quickly. Outside of those places, there were breweries and brewpubs, but a lot of them frankly sucked. The reason for it is that people didn't know the difference between good and bad craft beer, so the bad breweries could survive more on novelty than on quality. It's now grown to the point where palates have gotten better across the country such that bad craft beer is called out as bad craft beer, and everyone has had to up their game, regardless of where they're located.

I don't think BBQ has hit that inflection point yet. Mediocre BBQ in Texas will get run out of town. Mediocre BBQ in California will make the owner rich.

Hence Lucille's (https://lucillesbbq.com/).
Matt Horn’s long-waited Oakland barbecue is finally opening (Really!)

This weekend, those lines will form at 2534 Mandela Parkway. Although Alameda County is preparing to allow indoor dining, Horn will stick with outdoor tables and a takeout window for the time being.

Details: Open Thursday-Sunday starting at 11 a.m. www.hornbarbecue.com 

https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/10/23/matt-horns-long-waited-oakland-barbecue-is-finally-opening-really/ (https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/10/23/matt-horns-long-waited-oakland-barbecue-is-finally-opening-really/)


Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 25, 2020, 04:28:26 PM
Long, crazy lines at a new BBQ joint?  Makes sense.
Long, crazy lines at a new White Castle?  Stop.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 25, 2020, 06:00:26 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REGkQ-qY6bg&ab_channel=DownFallNetWork
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 25, 2020, 07:03:40 PM
Lenny & Squiggy??
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 25, 2020, 07:20:51 PM


About the same time period. So... maybe? 
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on October 27, 2020, 08:58:37 AM
That is many of us here really.  The question is whether you "throw away your vote" or choose the least stinky candidate.  I'm the former.

I will not be voting for Trump nor Biden.
Agree with both and voted accordingly - provided the mail in gets there


Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on October 27, 2020, 09:01:28 AM
IMHO, so long as "we" keep settling for the LOTE to decide our vote, we'll keep getting two weevils.

Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 27, 2020, 10:55:15 AM
quit bumping this thread.............
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 27, 2020, 11:04:06 AM
quit bumping this thread.............
You just did.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on October 27, 2020, 02:21:10 PM
quit bumping this thread.............
We're trying to equal the "Welcoming Nebraska" Thread that wafted around for 2-3yrs
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 27, 2020, 02:24:02 PM
Nebraska is a sort of misfit from the West
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2020, 10:01:07 AM
example of a misfit................

Joseph Desmond, a senior in the Krannert School of Management and Purdue Pete, was arrested on multiple charges at McDonald’s at 605 W. Stadium Ave around 2 a.m. Oct. 11, according to a probable cause affidavit filed today.

The WLPD officer was advised that two men were allegedly fighting in the parking lot, and one hit the other with his vehicle.

A Purdue University Police Department officer reportedly had Desmond in handcuffs and was speaking to the alleged victim, who the officer reported had sustained multiple injuries. A McDonald’s employee identified Desmond as the driver of the vehicle that struck the victim, which Desmond later denied, according to the affidavit.


Desmond allegedly claimed to have been golfing earlier in the day and to be drunk all night.

The reporting having consumed seven beers while golfing and then going to Harry’s Chocolate Shop around 11 p.m. where he said he had approximately four mixed drinks, although he couldn’t remember exactly how much he had had to drink, documents state.

The officer took Desmond to WLPD headquarters where he subjected him to three separate sobriety tests, all of which he failed.

“I had probable cause to believe (Desmond) had operated a vehicle while intoxicated,” the officer wrote in the report, adding that Desmond’s BAC was 0.172.

Desmond is listed in the Purdue Athletics Spirit Roster for the 2019-2020 season.

(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/purdueexponent.org/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/8/0f/80f0e586-1890-11eb-ab46-1f39dc5034ab/5f987f0c3a878.image.jpg)
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 28, 2020, 10:04:26 AM
That's why after drinking my way through a round of golf I come home for more drinking, not go to a bar. 
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2020, 10:12:44 AM
cook your own burger

nothing good happens at McDonalds at that time of night
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2020, 10:37:39 AM
Given we're all pretty much misfits, it's obvious why we'd be attracted to post in a misfits thread.

Who wants to be normal anyway?
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on October 28, 2020, 11:04:59 AM
That's why after drinking my way through a round of golf I come home for more drinking, not go to a bar.
I'll drink to that
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on October 28, 2020, 11:06:40 AM
Given we're all pretty much misfits, it's obvious why we'd be attracted to post in a misfits thread.

Who wants to be normal anyway?
Me I'm normal it's the rest of you misguided misfits faffing things up
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: utee94 on October 29, 2020, 09:46:12 AM
I'm gonna save this thread by posting interesting or funny stuff.  I saw this posted to a FB group I'm on, this is somewhere in the Austin area:

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/123166546_3572892086124362_7813799791901290751_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=2&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=6lhHQBc6wtwAX8z2758&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=a05a3083ca35968ed93de5dea3da3a53&oe=5FC1B07F)
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 29, 2020, 09:48:42 AM
Needs to put some meat on those bones.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2020, 10:11:16 AM
Is a good burger that hard to make at home?

Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on October 29, 2020, 10:57:18 AM
I'm gonna save this thread by posting interesting or funny stuff.  I saw this posted to a FB group I'm on, this is somewhere in the Austin area:

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/123166546_3572892086124362_7813799791901290751_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=2&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=6lhHQBc6wtwAX8z2758&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=a05a3083ca35968ed93de5dea3da3a53&oe=5FC1B07F)
For a second, I thought this was a wrecking ball reference, which dates me terribly.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 29, 2020, 11:43:22 AM
Is a good burger that hard to make at home?


Nope.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 29, 2020, 12:15:34 PM
Is a good burger that hard to make at home?
Definitely, but a lot of people don't. A lot of people throw a frozen patty on a too-cold grill, cook the crap out of it, and then slap it on a cheap bun with a little ketchup and wonder why it's not as good as a restaurant. Simple rules:


Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2020, 12:23:56 PM
I don't mind taking a bit more time and going the extra few steps to make a dern good burger at home
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 29, 2020, 12:57:25 PM
I grind my own meat.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: utee94 on October 29, 2020, 01:18:36 PM
I make great burgers at home.  But I also enjoy getting a good burger out.  I mix it up, I'm crazy like that.

Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2020, 01:27:02 PM
I prefer the 80-20 grind myself.  I will put chopped onion inside mine, the wife doesn't like it.  She also likes her burger RARE (I don't).

The bun comment is very apt.  I like a good bun lightly toasted.  I also like a good hamburger bun.

Other items I vary depending what we have, I tend to like mayo on it, the wife does not.

Long ago I'd buy ground sirloin that really was that and they were great, I keep forgetting to ask our local butcher to grind some for us.  His steaks are pricey.

The Whole Foods near us has a dry aging unit in their butchery.  I was intrigued.  Their steaks are pretty good I think.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 29, 2020, 01:39:20 PM
I prefer the 80-20 grind myself.  I will put chopped onion inside mine, the wife doesn't like it.  She also likes her burger RARE (I don't).

The bun comment is very apt.  I like a good bun lightly toasted.  I also like a good hamburger bun.

Other items I vary depending what we have, I tend to like mayo on it, the wife does not.

Long ago I'd buy ground sirloin that really was that and they were great, I keep forgetting to ask our local butcher to grind some for us.  His steaks are pricey.

The Whole Foods near us has a dry aging unit in their butchery.  I was intrigued.  Their steaks are pretty good I think.
Inside?


That's meatloaf. :96:
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 29, 2020, 01:48:06 PM
I grind my own meat.
Me too. I was previously using a mix of chuck and brisket point, but my most recent grind was just chuck. We're doing burgers Sunday night, actually. 

At some point I need to make some pastrami or corned beef, just so I have an excuse to buy a giant full packer brisket and use the flat for that while using the point for burger. 

Long ago I'd buy ground sirloin that really was that and they were great, I keep forgetting to ask our local butcher to grind some for us.  His steaks are pricey.

The Whole Foods near us has a dry aging unit in their butchery.  I was intrigued.  Their steaks are pretty good I think.
Sirloin is leaner. Probably better for your wife who likes it more rare, but the 80/20 is better if you like it more cooked through. 

I found my specialty butcher's steaks, which aren't dry aged, to be superior to Whole Foods' dry aged versions, and although both are very expensive, the specialty butcher was actually cheaper than Whole Foods. 
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on October 29, 2020, 02:00:54 PM
Inside?


That's meatloaf. :96:
Next thing you know folks will be putting beans in Chili and limes in Beer
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 29, 2020, 02:26:53 PM
My grind has evolved over the years.

It's now equal parts short rib, inner skirt (not trimmed), flank and whatever trimmings I have left over from the whole tenderloins I get. It's about 80-20, or thereabouts.

Straight up ground ribeye is REALLY good, but you are ruining a ribeye to get a burger. Some would not approve, but I like it.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 29, 2020, 02:55:31 PM
Tongue, liver and brain is the only way to go.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 29, 2020, 03:11:41 PM
Tongue, liver and brain is the only way to go.
With a nice chianti?
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2020, 04:11:23 PM
The Whole Foods near us has a dry aging unit in their butchery.  I was intrigued.  Their steaks are pretty good I think.
you haven't tried the dry aged?

I really enjoy it.  It's a bit different, but I like it.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: utee94 on October 29, 2020, 04:48:14 PM
My grind has evolved over the years.

It's now equal parts short rib, inner skirt (not trimmed), flank and whatever trimmings I have left over from the whole tenderloins I get. It's about 80-20, or thereabouts.

Straight up ground ribeye is REALLY good, but you are ruining a ribeye to get a burger. Some would not approve, but I like it.
I don't like ribeye cut as a steak, it's the texture, just way too fatty for me.  And it's not like that fat renders like it does on a slow-cooked cut.

So for me, ribeye actually works much better as a burger.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2020, 05:29:53 PM
ribeye falls behind, strip, t-bone/porterhouse, fillet, and above average sirloin

but, there are other things that can make perfectly good burger
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2020, 05:36:48 PM
Fazoli’s is an Italian/American fast-casual restaurant chain.

GM, Krissie Schroeder say, “Fazoli’s pasta and sauces, breadsticks and salads are freshly prepared throughout the day. Our food isn’t ‘fast food.’ It’s fast, fresh, Italian!”


coming in early 2021 to an abandoned Pizza hut building near my golf course

is it worth trying or just chain food crap?  Do they serve beer?
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: GopherRock on October 29, 2020, 05:51:03 PM
Fazoli’s is an Italian/American fast-casual restaurant chain.

GM, Krissie Schroeder say, “Fazoli’s pasta and sauces, breadsticks and salads are freshly prepared throughout the day. Our food isn’t ‘fast food.’ It’s fast, fresh, Italian!”


coming in early 2021 to an abandoned Pizza hut building near my golf course

is it worth trying or just chain food crap?  Do they serve beer?
I lived near one in Rochester. It's not bad, okay if you're in a hurry. They're going to send you a lot of coupons.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: MaximumSam on October 29, 2020, 06:00:15 PM
Fazoli’s is an Italian/American fast-casual restaurant chain.

GM, Krissie Schroeder say, “Fazoli’s pasta and sauces, breadsticks and salads are freshly prepared throughout the day. Our food isn’t ‘fast food.’ It’s fast, fresh, Italian!”


coming in early 2021 to an abandoned Pizza hut building near my golf course

is it worth trying or just chain food crap?  Do they serve beer?
I mean they have fast food pizza so that's like of cool. But no it's not good.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2020, 06:12:43 PM
I like coupons
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: utee94 on October 29, 2020, 06:13:43 PM
Fazoli's is no worse than Olive Garden, whatever that might mean for you.

Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on October 29, 2020, 06:15:51 PM
Tongue, liver and brain is the only way to go.
Sounds like a bunch of tripe
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2020, 06:16:06 PM
can't be as expensive as Olive Garden...

and quicker in and out

maybe a drive thru option with pandemic and the pizza hut had a drive up window
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 29, 2020, 06:17:08 PM
ribeye falls behind, strip, t-bone/porterhouse, fillet, and above average sirloin

but, there are other things that can make perfectly good burger
Ribeye is the king of steak. Fat is flavor.

Filet is basically baby food. It's tender, but it's one of the least flavorful steaks.

Fazoli’s is an Italian/American fast-casual restaurant chain.

GM, Krissie Schroeder say, “Fazoli’s pasta and sauces, breadsticks and salads are freshly prepared throughout the day. Our food isn’t ‘fast food.’ It’s fast, fresh, Italian!”


coming in early 2021 to an abandoned Pizza hut building near my golf course

is it worth trying or just chain food crap?  Do they serve beer?
Think of it as a rung or two on the chain below Olive Garden. 

The good news is that mediocre Italian food, kind of like mediocre pizza, is still pretty satisfying. But that's about the best thing you can say about Fazoli's. 
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: utee94 on October 29, 2020, 06:20:15 PM
Ribeye is the king of steak. Fat is flavor.

Filet is basically baby food. It's tender, but it's one of the least flavorful steaks.
Think of it as a rung or two on the chain below Olive Garden.

The good news is that mediocre Italian food, kind of like mediocre pizza, is still pretty satisfying. But that's about the best thing you can say about Fazoli's.
Chewing through unrendered fat is gross, and steak doesn't cook anywhere near long enough to render fat.

Strip is a much better texture-to-flavor ratio.

But like I said, ribeye makes good hamburger so there you have it.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 29, 2020, 06:23:34 PM
Chewing through unrendered fat is gross, and steak doesn't cook anywhere near long enough to render fat.

Strip is a much better texture-to-flavor ratio.

But like I said, ribeye makes good hamburger so there you have it.
Not going to argue about the fat. I find those chunks of fat in a ribeye to be delicious, but YMMV.

But we can both agree that flavor-wise, either a ribeye or a strip is light-years ahead of a filet. 
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2020, 06:32:06 PM
I very rarely order a fillet, but the fillet side of a good porterhouse is quite good

I order more sirloins than fillets.

A very good ribeye is excellent - many are not choice and have too much inedible fat.  
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2020, 06:38:58 PM
@MarqHusker (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=41) .......... might be a bit North of you, but might be worth checking

Smokin' E's BBQ in Lake Station has the meats.

Its beef brisket was crowned Best of the Midwest at a Master Pro Kansas City Barbeque Society competition in Union Grove, Wisconsin. Its brisket placed first out of 50 competitors.

"It's pretty amazing because brisket is king of the meats and we had amazing competition," owner Tim Easton said. "It was an honor just getting in and we finished first place."

Easton, his wife Ginny Easton, his son CJ Easton, his wife's sister Casey Harman and Mike Robertson served on the winning team at the professional tournament. The family opened Smokin' E's BBQ in a former Maxwell Street Polish restaurant space at 2401 Central Ave. in Lake Station three years ago. The southern-style barbecue restaurant is the only one to have any staying power in that spot, where others have folded in a few months. But it lately has been struggling because of the coronavirus pandemic.


https://www.nwitimes.com/business/local/lake-station-barbecue-restaurant-s-brisket-crowned-best-in-the-midwest/article_82b758f6-c40c-57d7-b134-4ba225812f04.html (https://www.nwitimes.com/business/local/lake-station-barbecue-restaurant-s-brisket-crowned-best-in-the-midwest/article_82b758f6-c40c-57d7-b134-4ba225812f04.html)
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: utee94 on October 29, 2020, 06:40:39 PM
And now for my own Halloween decorations.  Since we moved in 8 years ago, my next door neighbor has always done a really great Nightmare Before Christmas scene for his Halloween decorations.  And I've threatened for years to continue the Tim Burton theme with one of my favorites, Beetlejuice.  So last year I began the Beetlejuice decorations, and this year I added to it.  Here's several pics of my house and a couple of my neighbor's.


(https://i.imgur.com/ncaHtgQ.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/EWScJkM.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/PCyopLk.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/OmGBUU0.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/PKEDRDm.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/dtnERnT.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Pku0zkf.jpg)


(https://i.imgur.com/hAunXcL.png)


(https://i.imgur.com/uJyd7eG.png)





(https://i.imgur.com/vxmidDu.png)



(https://i.imgur.com/wzEBRiZ.png)



Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: utee94 on October 29, 2020, 06:41:33 PM
Not going to argue about the fat. I find those chunks of fat in a ribeye to be delicious, but YMMV.

But we can both agree that flavor-wise, either a ribeye or a strip is light-years ahead of a filet.
Yeah, I don't want to upset Fearless, but definitely.  And the sheer COST of filet... wow.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on October 29, 2020, 06:46:49 PM
Halloween display is great 94 but where is Genna Davis?
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: GopherRock on October 29, 2020, 06:56:01 PM
(https://media2.s-nbcnews.com/i/newscms/2020_43/1622717/funniest-2020-inspired-halloween-mc-main-201020_eab1a134a606d40dfc10cc99bd227753.jpg)
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: utee94 on October 29, 2020, 06:56:51 PM
Halloween display is great 94 but where is Genna Davis?
Pictures 3 and 5 have the character Barbara Maitland in her iconic floral dress.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on October 29, 2020, 07:04:23 PM
Fazoli's is no worse than Olive Garden, whatever that might mean for you.
Olive Garden is like dog food. Worse maybe. No self respecting italian, italian-american, or lover of italian culture/cuisine would eat at Olive Garden even if it was the last place on earth to eat and they were dying of starvation. 

Which doesn't make sense to me, because it's the same company (Darden) which owns Capital Grille and Longhorn Steakhouse, and I quite like those places as far as big chain steak houses goes.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on October 29, 2020, 07:16:08 PM
Pictures 3 and 5 have the character Barbara Maitland in her iconic floral dress.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jz_D-greh8Q
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 29, 2020, 07:25:37 PM
Olive Garden is like dog food. Worse maybe. No self respecting italian, italian-american, or lover of italian culture/cuisine would eat at Olive Garden even if it was the last place on earth to eat and they were dying of starvation.

Which doesn't make sense to me, because it's the same company (Darden) which owns Capital Grille and Longhorn Steakhouse, and I quite like those places as far as big chain steak houses goes.
I get Capital Grille, but Longhorn? Longhorn is to good steakhouses what Olive Garden is to good Italian food. 
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: utee94 on October 29, 2020, 07:30:01 PM
I get Capital Grille, but Longhorn? Longhorn is to good steakhouses what Olive Garden is to good Italian food.
Yeah, Longhorn Steakhouse is an abomination.  Comparing it to Olive Garden is actually insulting to Olive Garden.

Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: MaximumSam on October 29, 2020, 08:02:40 PM
Doesn't longhorn give you peanuts? 
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2020, 08:03:38 PM
Texas Roadhouse has peanuts in the shell
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on October 29, 2020, 08:15:52 PM
Olive Garden is like dog food. Worse maybe. No self respecting italian, italian-american, or lover of italian culture/cuisine would eat at Olive Garden even if it was the last place on earth to eat and they were dying of starvation.

Which doesn't make sense to me, because it's the same company (Darden) which owns Capital Grille and Longhorn Steakhouse, and I quite like those places as far as big chain steak houses goes.
I have only one memory of going to olive garden. I ordered Lasagna. It arrived as basically slush. It made me long Carrabba's.

I had a friend who described a childhood love of Fazoli's because that's what they ate on band trips. This kind of sums it up for me. Not food a person older than college age eats unless they have kids or a strong nostalgic tie. 
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on October 29, 2020, 08:18:03 PM
Also, restaurants that are constructed like real restaurants but serve food that's at best not much better than fast causal (Chilis, Applebee's) are all kind of redundant at this point. Even Buffalo Wild Wings is near that level, but it it enough of a sports bar to pass, barely.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2020, 08:35:09 PM
the BWWs here has great tap beer

the wings and burgers are decent
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: MarqHusker on October 29, 2020, 08:35:27 PM
Kids sure love Olive Garden.   The hook of a basket of breadsticks is just crack.  Same for fazolis.   Those things have a half life of 90 seconds, but they can't get enough of them.    Fortunately there's a Mediterranean place nearby with outstanding garlic bread of all things..   I can get my kibbeh nayeh, lamb, and spanikopita and they can have garlic bread, pita huumius and noodles. 
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on October 29, 2020, 09:59:19 PM
I have only one memory of going to olive garden. I ordered Lasagna. It arrived as basically slush. It made me long Carrabba's.
Carrabba's is actually pretty good for a chain italian restaurant. Probably the only one I'll eat at. Depending on the location. I've eaten at some that were really great, and other locations in random places throughout the country that were flat out terrible. This is the problem with any chain though. Hit or miss- all depends on how they are run by the franchisees/proprietors. 

I really want to try the original Carrabba's in Houston. It's still independently owned by the family and has nothing to do with OSI/Bloomin. The chain Carrabba's are some sort of licensing deal. 

Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on October 29, 2020, 09:59:47 PM
Yeah, Longhorn Steakhouse is an abomination.  Comparing it to Olive Garden is actually insulting to Olive Garden.
No way. Olive Garden is literally disgusting. 
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on October 29, 2020, 10:00:34 PM
I get Capital Grille, but Longhorn? Longhorn is to good steakhouses what Olive Garden is to good Italian food.
Disagree vehemently. I've had many good filets at Longhorn. It's definitely better than say Outback- which is disgusting. 
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2020, 10:07:52 PM
big differences with local management in those chains
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: utee94 on October 29, 2020, 10:42:08 PM
No way. Olive Garden is literally disgusting.
And Longhorn Steakhouse is worse.  Gross.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: utee94 on October 29, 2020, 10:44:47 PM
Disagree vehemently. I've had many good filets at Longhorn. It's definitely better than say Outback- which is disgusting.
Wow, no not at all.

The very worst Outback I've ever eaten at, was about 1000x better than Longhorn Steakhouse.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 29, 2020, 11:17:10 PM
Gee whiz, it's almost as if it's personal preference or something!
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 29, 2020, 11:18:16 PM
I worked at Olive Garden for 1 day.  I learned that all of their food is both boiled and frozen.  I always figured that does something at the molecular level....you're putting a ceiling on the quality of your food when you both boil and freeze it.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 30, 2020, 07:11:31 AM
Wow, no not at all.

The very worst Outback I've ever eaten at, was about 1000x better than Longhorn Steakhouse.
I'm the opposite. But, I'll admit that the only "steak" I order in those places is ground.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 30, 2020, 07:36:07 AM
I used to travel a lot for work. In many of the cities/towns that I was traveling too, there were usually very limited options. And in a lot of cases, I really didn't have time to scout and find a good restaurant and would simply go to a familiar chain. What I found was that Outback was really different from town to town and usually not very good. Longhorn and Texas Roadhouse were pretty consistent so that I stood a good chance of getting something that I liked. 

But as usual, if I had the time to talk with the locals and scout around, the small mom and pop place, always was a better option. And I found some pretty good ones over the years. 

As for Carrabba's, I had never eaten at one until one day when I had about a 2 hour layover at O'Hare in Chicago. There was a Carrabba's in one of the terminals and I ordered the Fettuccine and it was very good, (or I was very hungry). I then ate at one in Charleston SC, and it was subpar. So it really does seem that even though you are at a chain were you would expect that there was some consistency, it really is hit or miss. 
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 30, 2020, 07:39:48 AM
As for beef, we buy our beef from a friend who raises steers and have it butchered to our specifications at a local butcher shop. Not only do we get what we want, we effectively are only paying about ~$3.25lb (between cost of the beef and the butcher fees). Sure, hamburger is a little pricy this way, but I am also buying Porterhouse, Sirloin, Ribeye, etc for this price. So it all works out.  
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 30, 2020, 08:05:07 AM
We used to do that when we had kids in the house. It worked out quite well - got the meat from NW Iowa, through Fearless. It was very good. We found a butcher down here, so we're set when we want great cuts. Costco does pretty OK.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: utee94 on October 30, 2020, 08:38:01 AM
I'm the opposite. But, I'll admit that the only "steak" I order in those places is ground.
I was kind of just arguing for the sake of arguing.  I don't actually have a strong opinion about these places, as I rarely eat at any of them.  Like NorthernOhioBuckeye, about the only times I'd ever eat at these large national chains, was whilst traveling for work. 

I love to find local places, but occasionally when I've just arrived in town and I'm tired and hungry, I'll eat at the nearest chain because it's close, and they're relatively consistent.  But once I've had a chance to ask the locals where to go, that's generally where I'll head.

Believe it or not, Chili's used to be a good Southwest/Tex-Mex kind of place, back in the 80s.  Now it's the same freezer/boil/microwave stuff you find at all the other huge chains.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on October 30, 2020, 08:56:03 AM
I worked at Olive Garden for 1 day.  I learned that all of their food is both boiled and frozen.  I always figured that does something at the molecular level....you're putting a ceiling on the quality of your food when you both boil and freeze it.
That is exactly what the food there tastes like- like it has been thawed out/boiled/cooked in a microwave. Makes sense.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Kris60 on October 30, 2020, 08:58:15 AM
I like Olive Garden and Longhorn.  Restaurant chains make billions of dollars a year and no one likes them.  Lol.  Strange.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on October 30, 2020, 09:09:14 AM
Ed Zachery,I've eaten at all of them at least once and would go again - bunch a posers.But now with prices/covid we make most of our own
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on October 30, 2020, 09:17:55 AM
Kids sure love Olive Garden.  The hook of a basket of breadsticks is just crack.  Same for fazolis.  Those things have a half life of 90 seconds, but they can't get enough of them.    Fortunately there's a Mediterranean place nearby with outstanding garlic bread of all things..  I can get my kibbeh nayeh, lamb, and spanikopita and they can have garlic bread, pita huumius and noodles.
I want to go to there.

(If I still lived out your way, I'd be asking for the name for sure)
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on October 30, 2020, 09:21:59 AM


As for Carrabba's, I had never eaten at one until one day when I had about a 2 hour layover at O'Hare in Chicago. There was a Carrabba's in one of the terminals and I ordered the Fettuccine and it was very good, (or I was very hungry). I then ate at one in Charleston SC, and it was subpar. So it really does seem that even though you are at a chain were you would expect that there was some consistency, it really is hit or miss.
It's interesting the airport one was good and the Charleston one wasn't. Granted, with the different clientele, maybe a different approach. 

I had a good work trip food story a few weeks back. It was late on a Monday, and I asked a local guy for a place. I wasn't expecting much with the timing, but hoping maybe for a secret local place. He said there was a Zaxby's and a Wendy's and that he was more of a Wendy's man. That made me extra confident in my plan to go to Cookout. 
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: utee94 on October 30, 2020, 09:28:10 AM
I like Olive Garden and Longhorn.  Restaurant chains make billions of dollars a year and no one likes them.  Lol.  Strange.
Budweiser/Miller/Coors sells billions of gallons of beer per year but it's completely disgusting crap.  People are dumb and have terrible taste.  Film at 11.

:)
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 30, 2020, 09:33:08 AM
yup, and Toyotas and Fords are popular
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 30, 2020, 09:36:49 AM
Good ole fashioned meat measuring contest.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on October 30, 2020, 10:49:00 AM
Finally, some great news on the food front:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/30/mcdonalds-brings-back-mcrib-nationwide-for-the-first-time-since-2012.html
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: utee94 on October 30, 2020, 10:52:30 AM
Finally, some great news on the food front:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/30/mcdonalds-brings-back-mcrib-nationwide-for-the-first-time-since-2012.html
Oh man!  I do love that "sassy sauce."
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on October 30, 2020, 10:55:31 AM
My step son is a Culinary Institute Graduate (he doesn't work in the area now).  He told me his first job was at Macaroni Grill and I expect him to turn up his nose, but he said they did a good job there.  He was on the grill and everything he used was "real".  They had a specific cooking process of course, but he said they were good.

We have almost eliminated dining at chains, but I think some are "OK" if they are consistent, I've been in some decent Applebies when traveling and some that were horrible.  I think Olive Garden could be the same way, I'd go there for lunch way back with folks from work and the place we were was fine.  

I've been in some nasty Subways and some that were fine.

In some small towns, you are obviously limited as to choice, and if you are traveling you don't know where to go otherwise.

A buddy of mine would go to Kroger and get a salad and nice bottle of wine and take it back to the hotel.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: utee94 on October 30, 2020, 11:37:20 AM
Oh, work lunches, there's another thing that ends up at chain restaurants.  My former boss was not adventurous at all, so we always went to Macaroni Grill, Joe's Crab Shack, Carraba's.

At least he didn't make us go to Applebee's.  That's among my least favorite of all of them.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on October 30, 2020, 11:39:55 AM
https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a34317372/2020-chevy-corvette-review-small-block-v-8-will-never-be-outdated/?fbclid=IwAR2zNVkKQ-P-b0zqDqT63W0uLE1_ZPuIpXkb2ACb5TXvIOlzrp0V4JBFIqA
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 30, 2020, 11:53:21 AM
I like Olive Garden and Longhorn.  Restaurant chains make billions of dollars a year and no one likes them.  Lol.  Strange.
I think I've been to Chili's about 3 times in the last 5 years. I don't consider it bad. It's not great, but at least the food there has seasoning.

Outback once in the last 5 years and while I'd go back for a burger / awesome blossom and beers or something, will NEVER order another steak at that place after my last experience. I'd have been ashamed to serve that steak to a guest off of my own grill.

Haven't been to Olive Garden in the last 5 years, but my wife and I talk about going just for the soup/salad/breadsticks thing.

Haven't been to an Applebee's, TGI Fridays, or any of those types of places in the past 5 years either. 

But then, I'm a admitted food snob.

Budweiser/Miller/Coors sells billions of gallons of beer per year but it's completely disgusting crap.  People are dumb and have terrible taste.  Film at 11.

:)
Q: Why is light beer like sex in a canoe?
A: Both are f#$^%g close to water.

That said, I don't mind an MGD or a Coors Banquet every now and again.
yup, and Toyotas and Fords are popular
Yep. A Toyota Camry is kinda like a Coors Light. Well-made and high quality, but entirely bland and forgettable.

A lot of people buy a Toyota Camry. None are particularly excited about the prospect.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on October 30, 2020, 11:56:04 AM
I suspect a lot of folks who bought a BMW 3 Series drive it entirely the same way one could drive a Camry.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on October 30, 2020, 12:00:49 PM
On a lark, I picked up four small frozen lobster tails at Kroger today, $24 for the quartet.

Curiosity finally won out.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: GopherRock on October 30, 2020, 12:28:41 PM
When I lived in Rochester, the only things that were open after 9 PM near where I lived was Applebees and Taco Bell. When you get home from reffing basketball in some small town an hour south of Roch, well, I'm ashamed to admit I frequented those two establishments far more than I would have liked to.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 30, 2020, 12:43:45 PM
the Applebees isn't nearly as shameful as Taco Bell

in my esteemed opinion
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 30, 2020, 12:45:01 PM
I would allow the ex-GF talk me into lunch at Olive Garden once or twice a year

unlimited soup, salad, and breadsticks for not too much cash

didn't suck
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 30, 2020, 12:49:11 PM
the Applebees isn't nearly as shameful as Taco Bell

in my esteemed opinion
Disagree.

Taco Bell is trash, but it's cheap, easy, convenient calories thrown down your gullet. 

You have to make much more of an effort to sit down in an Applebee's, order a meal, and then it's a lot more expensive than Taco Bell. But the food is equally trash. 

Fast food is the equivalent of drinking plastic jug vodka to get hammered. It gets the job done quickly and cheaply, and you know you're a degenerate for doing it but at least you're owning it. Applebees is like getting drunk on a box of Franzia Rose. It aspires to a level of class that it can't even begin to hope to reach. 
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 30, 2020, 12:51:55 PM
well, this poor dirt farmer isn't much of a snob, but I don't drink plastic jug vodka

at least you can get bone-in chicken wings, fries, and a beer on tap at Applebees - not quality, but much better than the filler ground mystery meat at Taco Bell
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on October 30, 2020, 12:52:42 PM
I think Applebees might be the chain at which I have had the most varied experiences, from really really atrocious, to almost "Well that was OK for the money."

Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on October 30, 2020, 12:53:20 PM
I found a pretty good box wine, the Costco Kirkland California Cab.

Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: utee94 on October 30, 2020, 12:54:48 PM
Like many of you, I half-survived on Taco Bell in college, and so it will always have a special place in my heart.  

There's a Taco Bell inside Memorial Stadium here in Austin, and about the only time I ever get Taco Bell, is at Texas football games.  But, I do it EVERY single football game.  It's nostalgic, I suppose.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 30, 2020, 01:13:25 PM
I found a pretty good box wine, the Costco Kirkland California Cab.
The wife likes that as well as their Kirkland Pinot Grigio. And the advantage of boxed wine is that it doesn't go bad after you "open" it, so if she wants to have a glass a night during the week there's no pressure to finish it quickly before it goes off. 
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on October 30, 2020, 01:20:03 PM
Like many of you, I half-survived on Taco Bell in college, and so it will always have a special place in my heart. 

There's a Taco Bell inside Memorial Stadium here in Austin, and about the only time I ever get Taco Bell, is at Texas football games.  But, I do it EVERY single football game.  It's nostalgic, I suppose.
I'm old enough that we had no Taco Bell when I was in college.  I remember we had a Red Lobster in town, and if the parents visited, they'd take me there, it was dining high on the hog to go there.  There might have been a TB in Chapel Hill.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: SFBadger96 on October 30, 2020, 01:29:55 PM
I found a pretty good box wine, the Costco Kirkland California Cab.


Been avoiding it, while picking up the Kirkland Washington State cab (don't like the Kirkland Alexander Valley cab), but now I'll have to try the boxed version.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 30, 2020, 01:35:49 PM
My wife's "daily" Cab is Unruly, which is available at BevMo on their 5 cent wine sale, so it's 13.95 for a bottle but a second for 0.05 more. I.e. it's a $7 bottle of cab. 

Unruly is not a cab you'd write home about, but it's good enough for the price point and isn't a headache in a bottle. 

She considers the Kirkland in the same quality tier as the Unruly, but at $12.99 for 3L, it's a great value. 
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on October 30, 2020, 02:02:21 PM
I bought a case of the Kirkland "Oakville" cab and wish I had bought more.

I then bought a case of the Kirkland Stag's Leap Cab and so far wish I'd bought less.

Stag's Leap is probably my favorite US subapp.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: utee94 on October 30, 2020, 02:34:59 PM
I'm old enough that we had no Taco Bell when I was in college.  I remember we had a Red Lobster in town, and if the parents visited, they'd take me there, it was dining high on the hog to go there.  There might have been a TB in Chapel Hill.

Yeah Taco Bell started in Cali in 1962, and took some years to expand westward.  We had one near my house growing up in Austin in the 70s/80s, but the chain certainly wasn't as ubiquitous then, as it is now.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 30, 2020, 02:40:12 PM
Yeah Taco Bell started in Cali in 1962, and took some years to expand westward.  We had one near my house growing up in Austin in the 70s/80s, but the chain certainly wasn't as ubiquitous then, as it is now.

They're not as ubiquitous now as they will be...


(https://i.imgur.com/Tc7pXQF.png)
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: utee94 on October 30, 2020, 03:11:39 PM
They're not as ubiquitous now as they will be...


(https://i.imgur.com/Tc7pXQF.png)
Indeed, that's 2032, so I guess the Franchise Wars will occur sometime in the next 12 years...
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on October 30, 2020, 03:46:38 PM
They started in California and expanded westward?
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: GopherRock on October 30, 2020, 03:50:23 PM
Plastic jug vodka is a good thing to avoid under almost all conditions.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 30, 2020, 03:51:24 PM
Duh, Hawai'i.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: utee94 on October 30, 2020, 03:55:56 PM
They started in California and expanded westward?
yeah sure why not.  
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on October 30, 2020, 03:56:36 PM
My step son is a Culinary Institute Graduate (he doesn't work in the area now).  He told me his first job was at Macaroni Grill and I expect him to turn up his nose, but he said they did a good job there.  He was on the grill and everything he used was "real".  They had a specific cooking process of course, but he said they were good.

We have almost eliminated dining at chains, but I think some are "OK" if they are consistent, I've been in some decent Applebies when traveling and some that were horrible.  I think Olive Garden could be the same way, I'd go there for lunch way back with folks from work and the place we were was fine. 

I've been in some nasty Subways and some that were fine.

In some small towns, you are obviously limited as to choice, and if you are traveling you don't know where to go otherwise.

A buddy of mine would go to Kroger and get a salad and nice bottle of wine and take it back to the hotel.
I feel like someone told me Macaroni Grill and Carrabba's were the same but with different names, but a quick google says that might not be true. Macaroni Grill is just an awful name.

Bless the internet for highlighting some good local places. 
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 30, 2020, 03:58:13 PM
Plastic jug vodka is a good thing to avoid under almost all conditions.
I say the same for Taco Bell :57:
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: ELA on October 30, 2020, 04:00:27 PM
I was on the road in middle of nowhere Ohio all week long for about two months back in 2012.

There were some ok local places for lunch, but none of them were open for dinner.  The options were McDonald's, Pizza Hut, Dairy Queen and a place called "Oriental Buffet" with no windows
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 30, 2020, 04:07:59 PM
Drinking plastic jug vodka, eating Taco Bell, and rooting for the PAC 12, is no way to go through life, son
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on October 30, 2020, 04:58:25 PM
I was on the road in middle of nowhere Ohio all week long for about two months back in 2012.

There were some ok local places for lunch, but none of them were open for dinner.  The options were McDonald's, Pizza Hut, Dairy Queen and a place called "Oriental Buffet" with no windows
Buffet seems promising 
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 30, 2020, 05:01:32 PM
I was on the road in middle of nowhere Ohio all week long for about two months back in 2012.

There were some ok local places for lunch, but none of them were open for dinner.  The options were McDonald's, Pizza Hut, Dairy Queen and a place called "Oriental Buffet" with no windows
Seems like rural Ohio would be strange place for an all-Asian strip club. 

Weird flex, but ok. 
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on October 30, 2020, 05:42:29 PM
 A Toyota Camry is kinda like a Coors Light. Well-made and high quality, but entirely bland and forgettable.
Bland and forgettable is fine when you're not paying out the wazzou for custom everything.Really sux getting to your destination everyday for 15 yrs(literally) in N.Ohio.I'd buy the ugliest car on the lot if I knew it would last the longest efficiently
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 30, 2020, 05:43:24 PM
Seems like rural Ohio would be strange place for an all-Asian strip club.

Weird flex, but ok.
There are many, but generally presented as massage parlors, and not buffets
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on October 30, 2020, 05:46:13 PM
Plastic jug vodka is a good thing to avoid under almost all conditions.
Hand sanitizer
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on October 30, 2020, 05:49:38 PM
Yeah Taco Bell started in Cali in 1962, and took some years to expand westward. 
Doing a bustling business on Catalina
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on October 30, 2020, 05:51:24 PM
I was on the road in middle of nowhere Ohio all week long for about two months back in 2012.

There were some ok local places for lunch, but none of them were open for dinner.  The options were McDonald's, Pizza Hut, Dairy Queen and a place called "Oriental Buffet" with no windows
Bats don't like light - that's now the Covid Cafe
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 30, 2020, 05:52:36 PM
Bland and forgettable is fine when you're not paying out the wazzou for custom everything.Really sux getting to your destination everyday for 15 yrs(literally) in N.Ohio.I'd buy the ugliest car on the lot if I knew it would last the longest efficiently
I'm not knocking the Toyota Camry. Great car. Toyota makes wonderful products. I'm the type who, when it comes to a car, just wants the thing to work. Obviously I have different goals in my beer selection--the flavor is more important. But I don't make a beer purchase that has to last me a decade, where that's what I shoot for with a car. If I pick wrong with a beer it only lasts me a six-pack.

14 year old boys don't exactly have posters of a Toyota Camry up on their wall, though... 
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on October 30, 2020, 05:57:14 PM
I'm not knocking the Toyota Camry. Great car. 
Good because I've had Corollas.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on October 30, 2020, 06:01:15 PM
14 year old boys don't exactly have posters of a Toyota Camry up on their wall, though...
Well they're not getting a playmate or the calender girl either - unless pops has a lot of coin
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: utee94 on October 30, 2020, 06:02:33 PM
Our Toyota Camry Solara is the single worst, least reliable car I've ever owned.  And that includes not one but four different Chrysler products, manufactured between 1981 and 2017.  And two different Fords.

Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 30, 2020, 07:11:25 PM
Budweiser/Miller/Coors sells billions of gallons of beer per year but it's completely disgusting crap.  People are dumb and have terrible taste.  Film at 11.

:)

We're provided with the cheapest crap we won't turn down.  As we are in most every aspect of society.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on October 30, 2020, 07:27:30 PM
I feel like someone told me Macaroni Grill and Carrabba's were the same but with different names, but a quick google says that might not be true. Macaroni Grill is just an awful name.

Bless the internet for highlighting some good local places.

I am an Italian food snob. I grew up eating the real stuff my entire life and have been to Italy quite a bit. 

Macaroni Grill is disgusting. 

The right Carrarabas run by the right propertiors is actually surprisingly good. 
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on October 30, 2020, 07:39:36 PM
I suspect a lot of folks who bought a BMW 3 Series drive it entirely the same way one could drive a Camry.
This is funny as I just had an experience with this kind of thing.

I rent cars for some work trips. I get the cheapest option, which means talking whatever is on hand. Usually it's crappy subcompact, but of late it's been some weirder stuff (avoided the van to this point). But the last time I rented, the guy was about to give me a small truck when I said, "give me whatever has the best gas mileage." He said if I didn't want the truck, there was a two-seater convertible coupe, low-end sports car type thing. I asked about gas mileage and it was better, so away I went in the low-slung little thing.

After, someone said, "did you drive really fast?" and it was like, I drove the way I usually do, 7-9 MPH above the speed limit. And the car was noisy at low speeds, smoother at higher ones and I can get my Camry up to 100 almost as easy. But the only time I got a car up to 100, I caught a 23 over ticket, an my car gets me to the same 79 that little sports car did. There were some nice features and it was sorta fun just to dabble with. 
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on October 30, 2020, 07:41:28 PM
I am an Italian food snob. I grew up eating the real stuff my entire life and have been to Italy quite a bit.

Macaroni Grill is disgusting.

The right Carrarabas run by the right propertiors is actually surprisingly good.
Interesting. 

The only time I do Carrarabas is on work trips, and maybe only 3-4 times total, none in years. Never been to Macaroni Grill, I think. In any case, the town I'm in has worthwhile pizza and Italian, so there's not a point where I'll say "Man I need that chain I almost never go to."
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 30, 2020, 09:17:11 PM
Question. Is it a Christmas faux pas to give a 13 year old a set of used gold clubs bought off Craigslist?

I found a full set including 3 wood, 4-PW matched irons, SW/LW, putter and bag for $90. Graphite shafts, so they're light enough for a young teen to swing. 

I figure that should be pretty exciting for him even though they're not brand new, yeah. 
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 30, 2020, 09:22:30 PM
absolutely a GREAT gift if the kid enjoys golf

no sense buying brand new clubs that he will grow out of in a few years
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2020, 08:56:43 AM
I feel like someone told me Macaroni Grill and Carrabba's were the same but with different names, but a quick google says that might not be true. Macaroni Grill is just an awful name.

Bless the internet for highlighting some good local places.

Lots of local places are not going to be around if the lockdowns have any say.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2020, 09:00:15 AM
I am an Italian food snob. I grew up eating the real stuff my entire life and have been to Italy quite a bit.

Macaroni Grill is disgusting.

The right Carrarabas run by the right propertiors is actually surprisingly good.
This is where my head is. 

The best Italian restaurant I've been too is in Sheboygan, WI. We found a good one here, locally. 
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: MaximumSam on October 31, 2020, 09:03:54 AM
Question. Is it a Christmas faux pas to give a 13 year old a set of used gold clubs bought off Craigslist?

I found a full set including 3 wood, 4-PW matched irons, SW/LW, putter and bag for $90. Graphite shafts, so they're light enough for a young teen to swing.

I figure that should be pretty exciting for him even though they're not brand new, yeah.
PlayStation 5 pops
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2020, 09:05:51 AM
Question. Is it a Christmas faux pas to give a 13 year old a set of used gold clubs bought off Craigslist?

I found a full set including 3 wood, 4-PW matched irons, SW/LW, putter and bag for $90. Graphite shafts, so they're light enough for a young teen to swing.

I figure that should be pretty exciting for him even though they're not brand new, yeah.
How could they be light if they are made from solid gold?
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 31, 2020, 09:48:19 AM
Lots of local places are not going to be around if the lockdowns have any say.
Take it to the coronavirus thread, Badge. We have a place for these discussions :57:
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on October 31, 2020, 09:54:03 AM
I am somewhat tempted by the C8 Vette, convertible, but I always think I would never drive it anywhere near its capabilities.

I don't drive the GTI near its capabilities.  I like having the extra "cushion" if I get into a curve a bit too fast or need to punch it to merge etc.

For me, having a manual is a good step to making a car fun to drive, even in the city.  The valet at the French restaurant can't drive a stick, so when he sees us, he just smiles and points to the lot.

I give him five bucks anyway.  He's a nice kid.

The GTI really is hard to beat for our needs, which are modest, the spaciousness is handy when we trek to Costco.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on October 31, 2020, 03:18:52 PM
This is where my head is.

The best Italian restaurant I've been too is in Sheboygan, WI. We found a good one here, locally.
Try the one in Miami Beach I told you about if you’re ever in that area. Pane & Vino. It’s unbelievable. Probably the best Italian restaurant in the US.

There’s another one in Ft Lauderdale that’s very good and very famous, it’s called Cafe Martorano. Very good, but probably a little over priced.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2020, 05:09:10 PM
The place in Sheboygan....

Trattoria Stefano.

To work there, you have to pass a huge background check. Then, Stefano sends you to Tuscany for 6 weeks to learn the ways.

It's truly amazing to eat there. Everyone knows their shit. You feel like you are in Firenze. I am not kidding.

If you are ever up there, GO. Even if you are close. GO.

Stay at Kohler. 

We go by boat. 160 mile round trip, so not cheap, but we also stay in the marina there for a few days. We go two nights in a row.

Ask for David. Excellent waiter.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2020, 11:28:41 AM
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a30607874/flat-plane-v-8-chevy-mid-engine-corvette-z06-spy-video/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&fbclid=IwAR2PaLC3vW7URDeo56EdueXDog1cpIwot4LlWeWQZTWyO01NEcuSKp3UNTY&fbclid=IwAR00CAN6w4hYhs06ROIJxwCuOv-mYSZYaxLNVMqhRLz3WaBN07554Z5r_VI


How a flat plane Z06 Corvette sounds.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2020, 12:21:59 PM
I like it

but I like the big 6.2 as well
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2020, 01:57:53 PM
The cross plan burble is what we're used to and it sounds cool, the wife likes it.  The flat plane sounds "foreign" to us.
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2020, 02:04:11 PM
9,000 RPM is going to sound different
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2020, 02:13:30 PM
They sound different anywhere above about 4,000 RPM, and at idle as well.  Apparently it will be 5.5 L and not turbocharged.

Title: Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
Post by: MrNubbz on November 06, 2020, 09:26:56 PM
I'd rather see this now rather than later when it's more urgent.  This is prudent.  It's pro-active.  It's smart.  Sorry/not sorry if it's inconvenient or things don't seem dire enough to warrant it.
.
The same people questioning this would be the same saying we should've done something sooner if we hadn't......
Now why did take to March 12th for you to crawl out of your inner most recesses to start pounding your gavel in the Kangeroo Court.Your last sentence their appears self fufilling for all your forward thinking,insight,bombast and bluster doesn't appear you had been anymore vigilant or sounded any alarms until long after the cat bat was out of the bag

I'd do what I could to have the stress move up the $$$ ladder and not down.
Oh really does that include the rioters whom don't seem to share your supposed concern for containing covid.And when the President was trying to close down air flight and borders the Dems so called brain trust was calling him a racist


Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on November 07, 2020, 07:30:03 AM
We went back to that Italian place last night, it was crowded, which was good to see, we dined outside, very pleasant.  Our house is still dissed by the tile work.  THey say they only need to grout now, but they can't work here weekends (HOA rules).

I'll be glad when it's done, a two day job is now going to be a week with runners on the floor and plastic sheets over everything.

I doubt they made money on this deal.  That is why the estimate was lower than some others we got, but they did a very fine job I think.

And now for some football.



Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 07, 2020, 11:53:35 AM
So, I guess we can be done with the thread when the Senate seats are called?
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: FearlessF on November 07, 2020, 11:56:10 AM
or now
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 07, 2020, 12:24:50 PM
Props to Fox News for behaving like humans at the moment.  Sad humans, but humans nonetheless. 
Title: Re: Misfits Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 07, 2020, 12:40:07 PM
or now
I "vote" this.