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Topic: Misfits Thread

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MrNubbz

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1666 on: April 25, 2020, 11:46:34 AM »

Of course, hindsight and all that, the Japanese should have been more careful at Midway and should have launched a third attack at Pearl.


Distance,daylight9perhaps) and not knowing where the US Flat Tops were kept them from doing that.Found out 6months later what ignorance of enemy falt tops could do
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MrNubbz

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1667 on: April 25, 2020, 11:49:49 AM »
I don't know about U.S. ships sailing under British flags
I was in a WWII Naval Forum somewhere and this was discussed and linked.I confused that with the Atlantic Charter
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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1668 on: April 25, 2020, 11:56:49 AM »
The US effort had two fronts, MacArthur's which relied on island hopping and up through New Guinea, which was a bit unimaginative really, and what Nimitz was doing in the central pacific, which was directed at Guam/Tinian/Saipan as bases for the B-29s.  The Phillipines could have been bypassed.  Peleliu should have been bypassed, it was irrelevant, and a very nasty fight that took 1st MarDiv out of the Iwo fight.  We wanted Iwo Jima as a landing field for damaged B29s.

Of course, hindsight and all that, the Japanese should have been more careful at Midway and should have launched a third attack at Pearl.
Peleliu was probably Nimitz' worst mistake of the war.
Iwo Jima's role as an emergency landing field for B-29s has been overemphasized to help justify the huge casualties we absorbed in taking the island.  The claim that 25,000 American airmen were saved by way of emergency landings at Iwo can't be sustained.

The Japanese were brave and audacious, but they never seemed to get the proper balance between boldness and caution.  The raid on Pearl Harbor was strategically bold, but Nagumo executed it in a cautious way.  That raid needed to hit the Navy so hard that it would not be combat effective for at least the next 6 months, and would have to withdraw back to bases on the West Coast for logistical reasons.  Instead, it only destroyed 2 battleships and a few smaller vessels.  The other BBs they "sank" were refloated, repaired, and sent back into the war (not that they were all that vital anyway).  The carriers were not in port, and the Japanese left the tank farms, the sub base, and other maintenance and C2 facilities virtually untouched.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2020, 12:02:54 PM by CWSooner »
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MrNubbz

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1669 on: April 25, 2020, 12:01:20 PM »
t after we started with Lend-Lease shipments, we began using the U.S. Navy to escort them halfway across the Atlantic, at which point the Royal Navy picked them up and escorted them the rest of the way. 
I read somewhere there was 300 miles of open water in the N.Atlantic that either Navy/Coast Guard couldn't touch(w/o refueling).Started employing B-24 submarine patrols.The Liberators at the time were the only aircraft that could fly non stop across the Atlantic
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longhorn320

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1670 on: April 25, 2020, 01:11:21 PM »
Peleliu was probably Nimitz' worst mistake of the war.
Iwo Jima's role as an emergency landing field for B-29s has been overemphasized to help justify the huge casualties we absorbed in taking the island.  The claim that 25,000 American airmen were saved by way of emergency landings at Iwo can't be sustained.

The Japanese were brave and audacious, but they never seemed to get the proper balance between boldness and caution.  The raid on Pearl Harbor was strategically bold, but Nagumo executed it in a cautious way.  That raid needed to hit the Navy so hard that it would not be combat effective for at least the next 6 months, and would have to withdraw back to bases on the West Coast for logistical reasons.  Instead, it only destroyed 2 battleships and a few smaller vessels.  The other BBs they "sank" were refloated, repaired, and sent back into the war (not that they were all that vital anyway).  The carriers were not in port, and the Japanese left the tank farms, the sub base, and other maintenance and C2 facilities virtually untouched.
My dad served as an electricians mate in the navy during WWII and landed on Peleliu after it was taken

He used to tell stories of watching corsairs take off fly across a bay and dropping their load all the while never retracting their landing gear

He claimed it was the shortest bombing run in WWII although Im not sure about that

He used to tell some real interesting stories about that place
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1671 on: April 25, 2020, 01:38:43 PM »
The "jeep carriers" (CVEs) helped close the Atlantic gap.  They were merchant hulls given a flat top to operate planes.  That was a very effective expedient.  They were called "Combustible, Vulnerable, and Expendable".  They were also handy in moving planes around the Pacific.


CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1672 on: April 25, 2020, 03:07:38 PM »
I read somewhere there was 300 miles of open water in the N.Atlantic that either Navy/Coast Guard couldn't touch(w/o refueling).Started employing B-24 submarine patrols.The Liberators at the time were the only aircraft that could fly non stop across the Atlantic
Yeah, the old "Mid-Ocean Gap."  Libs were the fix for it.
I'd have rather been in a B-17 than a B-24, but there were things Libs could do and Flying Forts couldn't.
Speaking of airplane names, we didn't assign them until WWII, and we sort of just followed suit behind the Brits, who had long given their aircraft official names and then did the same with purchased (later Lend-Lease) P-36s, P-40s, B-17s, F4Fs, PBYs, etc.
Some of our WWII airplane names were the coolest ever.  Warhawk.  Flying Fortress.  Wildcat.  Hellcat.  Corsair.  Lightning.  Thunderbolt.  Mustang.  Liberator.  Dauntless.  Avenger.  Catalina.
And those great airplanes were mostly built by women.  Thank God for all the Rosies.
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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1673 on: April 25, 2020, 03:09:15 PM »
My dad served as an electricians mate in the navy during WWII and landed on Peleliu after it was taken

He used to tell stories of watching corsairs take off fly across a bay and dropping their load all the while never retracting their landing gear

He claimed it was the shortest bombing run in WWII although Im not sure about that

He used to tell some real interesting stories about that place
I've heard that story too, 320.
Seems weird.  Seems that if you're that close to the enemy, his artillery ought to be raining down on you.
Yet, apparently, it is true.
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1674 on: April 25, 2020, 03:14:57 PM »
I'd guess Japanese artillery was raining down on the air field.  It was on the "Canal of course, along with Japanese battleships coming in at night.  I am still shocked that battleships could not put an airfield out of operation for days.  They cruised the straits with impunity and rained down shells most of the night.  Henderson Field was mostly up and running the next morning despite losing some planes.  Those IJN BBs should have been able to demolish the air strip with their 14 inch guns.

The Seabees don't get their due.  Take out Henderson Field and this battle probably is a major US defeat.

CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1675 on: April 25, 2020, 03:19:28 PM »
The "jeep carriers" (CVEs) helped close the Atlantic gap.  They were merchant hulls given a flat top to operate planes.  That was a very effective expedient.  They were called "Combustible, Vulnerable, and Expendable".  They were also handy in moving planes around the Pacific.

And in their finest hour, at extreme cost to themselves, they and their tin-can escorts chased the heavily armed Japanese fleet built around the super-battleship Musashi Yamato away from the landing beaches of Leyte.
Trivia: CVE-57 had three names: Aikula Bay, Coral Sea, and Anzio.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2020, 03:32:55 PM by CWSooner »
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1676 on: April 25, 2020, 03:28:58 PM »
It was the Yamato, the Musashi had been sunk earlier by carrier based aircraft.


CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1677 on: April 25, 2020, 03:30:33 PM »
I'd guess Japanese artillery was raining down on the air field.  It was on the "Canal of course, along with Japanese battleships coming in at night.  I am still shocked that battleships could not put an airfield out of operation for days.  They cruised the straits with impunity and rained down shells most of the night.  Henderson Field was mostly up and running the next morning despite losing some planes.  Those IJN BBs should have been able to demolish the air strip with their 14 inch guns.

The Seabees don't get their due.  Take out Henderson Field and this battle probably is a major US defeat.
Guadalcanal.  What a battle.

U.S. Marines and, later, Army troops on the ground.  U.S. Marines and, later, Army Air Force in the air.  U.S. and Australian Navies at sea.  All fighting more or less simultaneously, and if any element of the air-land-sea combination failed the whole operation would have collapsed.

“Guadalcanal is no longer merely a name of an island in Japanese military history. It is the name of the graveyard of the Japanese army.”

~ Major General Kiyotake Kawaguchi, IJA, Commander, 35th Infantry Brigade at Guadalcanal
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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1678 on: April 25, 2020, 03:32:21 PM »
It was the Yamato, the Musashi had been sunk earlier by carrier based aircraft.
I stand corrected.  That's not the first time I've made that error either.  ~???
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Cincydawg

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