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Topic: Misfits Thread

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847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #3136 on: June 09, 2020, 04:08:19 PM »
The Tea Party movement was not about tea nor parties nor the act of looting for which it was originally named. The World Series does not include teams from across the world.

Looking over their website, economic injustice and access to quality education get mentioned. These seem like they would address that.


The quality education part would help put a stop to economic injustice. I wish that would be the primary focus, moving forward. It solves a lot of problems.
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bayareabadger

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #3137 on: June 09, 2020, 04:11:09 PM »
Not really. It's developing.

Maybe he was getting in his car to report for duty at 4AM? Maybe he just got off duty and was going back to retrieve something he forgot? Maybe he was targeted by the shooter as someone he was investigated by? Lots of possibilities.
I mean, the police, from interviewing a member of the police about what happened, should be able to get some of that out of him. (Though obviously he wouldn't know if the shooter was connected to an investigation unless they indicated that)

Anywho, the police aren't bad at PR. Pushing a report to the front of the pile to say, "Hey, we're under attack" even when the reports is on the developing side would not be a surprising move to that end.

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #3138 on: June 09, 2020, 04:11:48 PM »
Education would be great, a largely two person household would be great, better jobs would be great, cleaning up vacant lots would be great, getting a Walmart to come into a struggling neighborhood would be great .... I think it has been well known for decades what probably would work, IF it all could happen .... magically, somehow.  Maybe we could throw money at the problem.  Oh wait, we've done that too.


MrNubbz

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #3139 on: June 09, 2020, 04:12:12 PM »
 The World Series does not include teams from across the world.
Be nice if it included a team from Cleveland winning one every 70-75 yrs or so
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bayareabadger

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #3140 on: June 09, 2020, 04:12:42 PM »
The quality education part would help put a stop to economic injustice. I wish that would be the primary focus, moving forward. It solves a lot of problems.
That it would. Though there's also a mess of socialization problems to overcome. Real challenging stuff. 

longhorn320

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #3141 on: June 09, 2020, 04:13:49 PM »
Be nice if it included a team from Cleveland winning one every 70-75 yrs or so
Harry Doyle said this is the year
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #3142 on: June 09, 2020, 04:15:45 PM »
Ok. I can accept that. But to take the analogy even further then to me it’s like if she is complaining about two boxes in the garage when you can’t walk through the kitchen because of the clutter.

Are we focusing on the biggest clutter problem we have?

Maybe we're not. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't focus on it. Again, that's a "whataboutism" diversionary tactic.

As FF brought up in the coronavirus thread, 25M people a year worldwide die from contaminated water. does that mean we shouldn't take coronavirus seriously in the US? 

I don't know that we every 100 percent will. But we're focusing on one that can in theory be changed by a level of collective action. The police should be answerable to their people.

Trying to solve the violence that comes with poverty, it's simply a worlds more complex problem, and that's saying something because some of the issues with police violence are plenty complex. That doesn't mean people haven't tried to solve it (not super effectively), or won't keep trying to solve it (though there is admittedly not much agreed upon path forward).
Exactly. The solution for the problem of inner-city gang violence is incredibly complex. And people ARE trying [ineffectively] to solve it. But it's hard, because part of it is entirely wrapped up in the problems of drug prohibition [and the black markets / turf wars inherent therein]. It's hard because it's decentralized. It's hard because it's wrapped up in cycles of poverty and poor community support that go back generations, in communities that are consistently subject to adversarial policing and don't trust that the police will help them if needed.

The problem of police brutality SHOULD be much easier to solve. For one, it appears to be a very American phenomenon, so there are lots of counterexamples from other nations that we could learn from--but we don't. Second, it's centralized; you know who the police are, and they all report up through a chain of command to decision-makers with power that could push accountability down from the top--but the political forces stop us from doing it. Third, police are hired professionals and we should have the resources to adequately train bad behavior out of them--when instead the system reinforces it.  

To draw it back to the analogy, if I have a systemic problem in the kitchen where it's too cluttered not because of laziness, but because I have too many cooking utensils and not enough room, but my problem in the garage is that I've got a couple boxes of clutter that I'm just being lazy about donating to Goodwill or pitching in the trash, it would be fully normal to focus on taking care of the low-hanging fruit and fixing the garage. Because the bigger problem, the cluttered kitchen, is going to be exceedingly hard to solve without getting rid of things I feel I need, or moving to a bigger house we can't afford.

MrNubbz

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #3143 on: June 09, 2020, 04:17:42 PM »
Harry Doyle said this is the year
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847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #3144 on: June 09, 2020, 05:00:23 PM »
Lolla, Taste of Chicago and the Chicago Air and Water show all cancelled today. 

All are major outdoor events, like protests.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #3145 on: June 09, 2020, 05:07:11 PM »
Lolla, Taste of Chicago and the Chicago Air and Water show all cancelled today.

All are major outdoor events, like protests.
However, all have discernable legal corporate entities promoting them that could be sued out of existence for liability if their attendees suddenly had a 2% mortality rate. 

Try suing BLM if you get COVID-19 from a protest. 

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #3146 on: June 09, 2020, 05:14:26 PM »
I don't think any city can practicably stop the protests, so they don't try.  They can stop organized events.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #3147 on: June 09, 2020, 05:15:56 PM »
Abstract of a working paper trying to establish the effect of police unions on police brutality:


Quote
Abstract

Growing controversy surrounds the impact of labor unions on law enforcement behavior. Critics argue that unions impede organizational reform and insulate officers from discipline for misconduct. Yet collective bargaining tends to increase wages, which could improve officer behavior. We provide quasi-experimental empirical evidence on the effects of collective bargaining rights on violent incidents of misconduct. Our empirical strategy exploits a 2003 Florida Supreme Court decision (Williams), which conferred collective bargaining rights on sheriffs’ deputies, resulting in a substantial increase in unionization among these officers. Using a Florida state administrative database of “moral character” violations reported by local agencies between 1996 and 2015, we implement a difference-in-difference approach in which police departments (which were unaffected by Williams) serve as a control group for sheriffs’ offices (SOs). Our estimates imply that collective bargaining rights led to a substantial increase in violent incidents of misconduct among SOs, relative to police departments. The effect of collective bargaining rights is concentrated among SOs that subsequently adopted collective bargaining agreements, and the timing of the adoption of these agreements is associated with increases in violent misconduct. There is also some evidence consistent with a “bargaining in the shadow” effect among SOs that did not unionize.

Caveats... I found this through a Cato Institute posting, a well known libertarian think tank. Given their priors, I think you can pretty conclusively state that they're anti public-sector union from the start. And the actual paper came out of the University of Chicago. While I don't know the political proclivities of their Law school, from which the writers came, their economics department (the "Chicago School") which is inexorably tied with Milton Friedman, and is heavily libertarian. This paper is attributed to the UofC Coase-Sandor Institute of Law & Economics, with Coase being Ronald Coase, a long-time professor of economics within said school. 


So, while this 100% aligns with my prior beliefs about public sector unions, note that me coming across it and agreeing with it could be pure confirmation bias. 

847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #3148 on: June 09, 2020, 05:17:54 PM »
However, all have discernable legal corporate entities promoting them that could be sued out of existence for liability if their attendees suddenly had a 2% mortality rate.

Try suing BLM if you get COVID-19 from a protest.
Highly doubtful amigo. Attendance at any event is voluntary. Everyone knows the risks.
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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #3149 on: June 09, 2020, 05:28:44 PM »
Writers do what I do.  Hell, I got it from a writer. 
But I should change because jackwagons on the interwebz can't hang?  No tanks, mon.
What happens on a message board is more like conversation than what happens in writing an article, essay, story, etc.  In formal writing, constant "IMOs" would be hugely annoying.  The opposite is true on a message board.
But, as I said previously, you will continue to do as you do, and you will continue to be perplexed when people take you other than how you intended to be taken.
To quote a writer, "So it goes."
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