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Topic: Misfits Thread

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Riffraft

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #700 on: March 10, 2020, 03:30:51 PM »
I won't claim those figures are "wrong" exactly, but I don't trust them much either because of reporting errors.  Some folks may not have been tested for COVIC-19 and still be added to some list.  Reporting from places like Iran strike me as not very reliable.  I think it clear that older folks are hit harder, just as they are with flu.  And apparently some folks have contracted the illness and had no symptoms, though how anyone would know that without broad scale testing I have no idea.  If I get slightly ill I'm not going to get tested for it.

The specific percentages however strike me as very possibly wrong.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/early-mortality-rates-covid-19-misleading-experts/story?id=69477312

I think broad trends are probably about right, as you note, but I don't trust any specific statistics at this point.  If indeed 80% of cases involve mild symptoms, people would be sick and have no clue they were infected, and not get tested of course, nor added to any database.  They could be infectious carriers.

The elderly nearly always suffer more from respiratory ailments for obvious reasons.  Whether this one is more biased against them is TBD, I suspect.
Ok, you dismiss the WHO stats that they published, but do you accept their the sky is falling proclamations without any statistics?

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #701 on: March 10, 2020, 03:32:21 PM »
Which "sky is falling proclamations" did I accept here?

I'm lost.  I merely note that early in as we are, hard statistics are going to be hard to generate reliably.

Riffraft

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #702 on: March 10, 2020, 03:39:58 PM »
Which "sky is falling proclamations" did I accept here?

I'm lost.  I merely note that early in as we are, hard statistics are going to be hard to generate reliably.

That was just a question. I know we are both a little long in the tooth and have seen a large number of these scares over the years. 

I personally tend to dismiss out of hand most of what I call sensational reporting concerning these types of things. The earliest one I remember is the 1976 Swine Flu scare. None of them have amounted to much of anything through the years (at least when compared to how it was reported).  

So when you dismissed my use of the WHO stats to demonstrate the there really isn't any "great" danger unless you are old (80+) and particularly if you are already infirm, I was curious if you were buying into what I would call hysteria. 

Just for the record I am not discounting that people have died. That is a tragedy, but none of what I have seen has brought me to where need to close campuses, cancel sporting events. etc. 

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #703 on: March 10, 2020, 03:45:33 PM »
Um, you completely misread my meaning here.

And I did not embrace any sky is falling references nor did I imply that they elderly are not more in danger.  My POINT is that I don't trust statistics at this point.  The broad trends suggested could well be accurate, but not the precise figures offered.

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #704 on: March 10, 2020, 03:46:55 PM »
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/early-mortality-rates-covid-19-misleading-experts/story?id=69477312

I think broad trends are probably about right, as you note,
but I don't trust any specific statistics at this point.  If indeed 80% of cases involve mild symptoms, people would be sick and have no clue they were infected, and not get tested of course, nor added to any database.  They could be infectious carriers.

The elderly nearly always suffer more from respiratory ailments for obvious reasons.  Whether this one is more biased against them is TBD, I suspect.
This was my second post on the topic, with emphasis added.

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #705 on: March 10, 2020, 03:48:47 PM »
The deaths are almost exclusively over 80yo and in bad health

This is a chart that was put out by WHO



And note that this chart shows percentages with significant figures down to the hundredths of a percent (though they all are magically zeros in that place).  That point about the significant figures is just one indication this isn't a reliable set of figures.

So, I don't believe these statistics, though the broad trend is probably about right.

utee94

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #706 on: March 10, 2020, 03:49:47 PM »
I also don't believe a lick of what is coming out of China so, given that our current global data file is made up mostly of Chinese information, it's hard to believe we really know much of anything.  Data from South Korea, and Europe, is far more reliable.  That is certainly my opinion, others may differ.

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #707 on: March 10, 2020, 04:06:40 PM »
So, the DJIA oscillated rather dramatically today, which I take as evidence for its being "unsettled" and not entirely rational (if ever it is).


Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #708 on: March 10, 2020, 04:08:56 PM »
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1043366/novel-coronavirus-2019ncov-cases-worldwide-by-country/

So, according to reporting, 81,000 out of 110,000 cases confirmed are in China.  

utee94

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #709 on: March 10, 2020, 05:53:55 PM »
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1043366/novel-coronavirus-2019ncov-cases-worldwide-by-country/

So, according to reporting, 81,000 out of 110,000 cases confirmed are in China. 
Yup, that's what the current reporting says.

Here's another dashboard view with a heat map view by geo, put together by Johns Hopkins U:

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html


Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #710 on: March 10, 2020, 06:09:12 PM »
https://www.cbs46.com/news/georgia-daycare-worker-tests-positive-for-covid/article_21e67b0e-6266-11ea-816b-e321f920c1c8.html

I think it's "out" now and spreading fast.  Community spread.  I'd guess some of us here may get it.

utee94

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #711 on: March 10, 2020, 06:22:17 PM »
I think it's been "out" for a while and we're just starting to get awareness to the point that people are realizing it's not a common cold, or the flu, or some other ailment with similar symptoms.  We just don't really see the large hospitalizations and deaths yet, unless/until it hits a pocket of elderly/compromised individuals as it has in the Seattle area.


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #712 on: March 10, 2020, 06:51:55 PM »
So when you dismissed my use of the WHO stats to demonstrate the there really isn't any "great" danger unless you are old (80+) and particularly if you are already infirm, I was curious if you were buying into what I would call hysteria.
I was the other person who questioned the statistics, so I'll also chime in. 

I was not in any way *dismissing* the WHO stats. I think we've seen in practice, here in the US, that the basic lesson of that chart is true -- the elderly are at MUCH higher risk of mortality from COVID-19 than the bulk of the population. 

What I'm saying is that I don't necessarily have any faith that the specific percentages themselves are accurate. For example, with the flu we know enough about it to estimate the total number of cases based on those cases serious enough to be reported, require hospitalization, or be fatal. We don't know NEAR enough about COVID-19 yet to make those estimations. 

Thus, my thought is that COVID-19 is probably lower mortality than the reported statistics (due to unreported cases), and that there isn't really any "great" danger unless you are older or have preexisting respiratory or other health issues. No argument on that matter.

As such, I was talking to my boss today and his daughter and her boyfriend are slated to leave for a vacation to Greece tomorrow. She's freaking out, but they stand to lose a significant amount of money if they don't go. They're 29 and 30 years old, and right now Greece has only 89 reported cases. If I was in that position, I'd be getting on that airplane. Yes, it's a risk. But it's not a risk that justifies hysteria given the low incidence and their young age. 

At the same time, my parents had been talking about flying here from Denver later this year when my son has a performance for his school. They're both in their late 70's. My dad is overweight and my mom has heart issues. Neither of them should even be considering the trip at this point. 

I think the hysteria is overblown, but even when I say that, I do think this is a serious issue. I think the way people are reacting is irrational, but that doesn't mean that there's no risk.

847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #713 on: March 10, 2020, 07:20:16 PM »
The "common" flu is far worse. I wonder what the crisis of the month will be in June.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

 

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