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Topic: Misfits Thread

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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5880 on: August 04, 2020, 11:01:19 PM »
I mean...have you seen the president?  Comical and amateurish is all the rage these days.
My brother, who is not crazy, believes that Trump entered the race in late-2015/early-2016 at the behest of, or on the suggestion of, his friends the Clintons, for the purpose of destroying the Republican party and discrediting conservatism for a generation.
And then the totally unexpected thing happened--he won!
It seems far-fetched, but, if it were true, would he have behaved any differently than he has?
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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5881 on: August 04, 2020, 11:08:12 PM »
IN full disclosure, my wife is an immigrant.
My wife's grandparents were all immigrants.  Ukrainian Jews fleeing the pogroms.  Some of their brothers and sisters didn't make it.  They were so happy and grateful to have made it to the Land of Hope.
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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5882 on: August 04, 2020, 11:16:20 PM »
I mean, it still just would empower some theoretical producers of imaginary voters, just ones in different places. If you could find a way to be corrupt in Cincinnati Fort Myers, you could swing the presidency.

It's been interesting because I've lived in one state where candidates go in general elections and three others that only get primary folks. Just strikes me as redistribution.
The folks in Cook County have had more and longer practice at it.  As have some rural counties in Texas where in the past there have been more votes counted than registered voters.
Ever heard of "Landslide Lyndon"?
I absolutely do not understand what you are saying in your second paragraph.  Did you omit some words?
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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5883 on: August 04, 2020, 11:19:31 PM »
I mean, we can say they were ashamed, but many still did it. I respect there would've been no US without it. And thus, I believe that what the framers laid out was not perfect. It was a product of its time and it was going to need to evolve.

OTOH, I will say, if we can make the sixth amendment a thing, I'd gladly go back to that ideal.
IMO, perfection in a human instrument is impossible.
Our adherence to the 6th Amendment is not perfect, but it's a lot better than it was 50 or 60 years ago.
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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5884 on: August 04, 2020, 11:21:51 PM »
I don't put much trust in the national government, but I don't mind when a more general electoral system has a direct tie to the people. That's just me. I think direct mechanisms aren't bad.

It's not really a matter of trusting national over state. It's a matter of trusting the people over the state government with one sixth of the three branches. And perhaps I don't trust the people all that much (I don't), but I trust most state governments less.
But "the people" elect the state governments.  And state governments are generally more "democratic" than is the federal government.  Elected judges and state supreme court justices is an example.
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bayareabadger

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5885 on: August 05, 2020, 12:04:36 AM »
The folks in Cook County have had more and longer practice at it.  As have some rural counties in Texas where in the past there have been more votes counted than registered voters.
Ever heard of "Landslide Lyndon"?
I absolutely do not understand what you are saying in your second paragraph.  Did you omit some words?
To the first part, so would we argue swing states are relatively free of someone putting thumbs on scales?

The second paragraph was basically meant to say this, in general elections, candidates go to Wisconsin (most of the time), Ohio and Florida. They don't go to Ca. or Georgia for the most part. So if they go to places with more people rather than places with people whose votes are considered more valuable, it just strikes me as redistributing empowerment rather than creating more empowerment. And if the end point is rural Ohio folks deserve more focus than rural folks from the Dakotas, I guess that is what it is. 

bayareabadger

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5886 on: August 05, 2020, 12:05:08 AM »
IMO, perfection in a human instrument is impossible.
Our adherence to the 6th Amendment is not perfect, but it's a lot better than it was 50 or 60 years ago.
It is impossible, and thus we and our governments evolve.

bayareabadger

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5887 on: August 05, 2020, 12:16:00 AM »
But "the people" elect the state governments.  And state governments are generally more "democratic" than is the federal government.  Elected judges and state supreme court justices is an example.
That second part is true, but electing senators directly remains more "democratic" than leaving it up to pols. 

My assumption is most pols will leverage things to their benefit. That might be the Daley machine loading up ballot boxes. That might be Wisconsin's gerrymandering mess. And I assume that the pols running my state or my former state are going to find some way to leverage the power of selecting senators rather than do what they think is best for the state. 

Now the masses may be all sorts of stupid and send the same folks over and over again, but it strikes me as a more honest way for the system to work. I don't think everyone needs to be voted in. I'm kinda so-so on it happening with judges or education leaders and some others. But I don't see senators as that specialized. 

CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5888 on: August 05, 2020, 12:55:37 AM »
To the first part, so would we argue swing states are relatively free of someone putting thumbs on scales?

The second paragraph was basically meant to say this, in general elections, candidates go to Wisconsin (most of the time), Ohio and Florida. They don't go to Ca. or Georgia for the most part. So if they go to places with more people rather than places with people whose votes are considered more valuable, it just strikes me as redistributing empowerment rather than creating more empowerment. And if the end point is rural Ohio folks deserve more focus than rural folks from the Dakotas, I guess that is what it is.
No, I was jesting with the comments about Cook County, etc.  Pols are crooks for the most part.  They want money, and/or they have other desires--for sex or for power over their fellow citizens--that being in politics lets them satisfy.  That's why the Constitution placed such limits on them, and why the checks and balances so that their crookedness might cancel out the crookedness of the other ones.  But you believe that one of the checks on their crookedness--Senators being elected differently than Representatives--being removed was a good thing.
Again, I don't understand why you trust the U.S. Congress more than you trust your state legislature.  The same "people" elect the members of both.
I didn't follow that you were talking about what candidates for the presidency do.  Now I see.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5889 on: August 05, 2020, 05:22:12 AM »
Add this: POTUS is coincidentally screwing around with the USPS's ability to handle mail-in ballots.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hillary-clinton-republican-sabotage-usps-trump-strategy

Thanks CW. Another great example. I call this one Hillary Conspiracy Theory #26
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5890 on: August 05, 2020, 06:14:56 AM »
I'm just glad I don't have to quarter troops, except in time of war.

NorthernOhioBuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5891 on: August 05, 2020, 07:24:36 AM »
In this case, what would you describe as the purpose of the EC?
I believe this has already been discussed ad nauseam. 

But once again, we live in a Representative Republic, not a pure democracy. The founders believed that a direct election of the President through a popular vote (i.e. purely Democratic), would cause Presidents to ignore the smaller states in favor of the large population centers. The EC gives small states some say in the election of the President. 

847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5892 on: August 05, 2020, 08:41:05 AM »
No, I was jesting with the comments about Cook County, etc.  Pols are crooks for the most part.  They want money, and/or they have other desires--for sex or for power over their fellow citizens--that being in politics lets them satisfy.  That's why the Constitution placed such limits on them, and why the checks and balances so that their crookedness might cancel out the crookedness of the other ones.  But you believe that one of the checks on their crookedness--Senators being elected differently than Representatives--being removed was a good thing.
Again, I don't understand why you trust the U.S. Congress more than you trust your state legislature.  The same "people" elect the members of both.
I didn't follow that you were talking about what candidates for the presidency do.  Now I see.
It's Crook County, OK? Get it right already.

I should know. I just fled it after 53 years there.
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847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5893 on: August 05, 2020, 08:46:40 AM »
Michael Madigan (D-Chicago) has been the IL house speaker since 1983 (sans the 2 years when republicans had control (!).

I would not trust him to put a senator in office, although he managed to get one in with his muscle and corruption. But that guy (D-Chicago) quickly abandoned the senate role and ran for president, and, unfortunately, he won. Took Chicago to Washington.

Anyway, the Feds just indicted ComEd (power company) on corruption charges, and they have agreed to cooperate. They already paid a $200 Million fine. Michael Madigan is identified as "public official A" in the indictment.

They are finally gonna take the MF'er down.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

 

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