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Topic: Misfits Thread

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MaximumSam

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5544 on: August 02, 2020, 05:16:38 PM »
In any event, the electoral college making for some wacky politics, as elections boil down to a handful of states and whatever their pet issues are.  There's no incentive to campaign in every state nor address the issues of every person, since the math makes it dumb to do so.  Similarly, the math makes third parties an impossible option.  Some changes in voting could open that up - ranked choice voting, proportional voting - there are other systems out there to fit the needs of what we want.  But so far, what we want is an electoral college that makes no sense and and to choose between a Republican and Democrat in nearly every election.
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5545 on: August 02, 2020, 05:22:30 PM »
The electoral college gives small states a small voice instead of no voice at all, as would be the case without it. 
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1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

MaximumSam

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5546 on: August 02, 2020, 05:23:45 PM »
Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on August 02, 2020, 05:22:30 PM
The electoral college gives small states a small voice instead of no voice at all, as would be the case without it.
That's the pitch, and it is completely false.
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5547 on: August 02, 2020, 05:24:38 PM »
Without it, it would just be a competition to see which candidate the coastal folk find more appealing. 
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WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5548 on: August 02, 2020, 05:27:08 PM »
Before 2000, the EC and the popular vote coincided in every case but one, as I recall.  

I sort of enjoy the pandemonium and cries of unfairness every time it happens and youngsters discover the Electoral College and think it's unfair because they think we're a democracy.

If I thought there was any realistic chance it might change, I might ponder it a bit more.  But really it's like complaining about gravity.

Which is something of an illusion of course.
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MaximumSam

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5549 on: August 02, 2020, 05:32:09 PM »
Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on August 02, 2020, 05:24:38 PM
Without it, it would just be a competition to see which candidate the coastal folk find more appealing.
Take Idaho.  Four electoral votes, a population of about 1.8 million people.  Right now, with the electoral college, there is zero reason for Republicans or Democrats to pay attention to this state or the people in it.  Democrats have no shot to win the state, so why should they care about any of the people there?  Republicans have no competition there, so why should they care?

If you remove the electoral college, there is reason for both parties to pay attention, because they need to win as many votes as they can, and there is a reason for them to try and win those votes.  It would also be this way across the entire country - so Republicans would have incentive to get votes in New York and California (where right now they have none). 
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MaximumSam

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5550 on: August 02, 2020, 05:33:33 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 05:27:08 PM
Before 2000, the EC and the popular vote coincided in every case but one, as I recall. 

I sort of enjoy the pandemonium and cries of unfairness every time it happens and youngsters discover the Electoral College and think it's unfair because they think we're a democracy.

If I thought there was any realistic chance it might change, I might ponder it a bit more.  But really it's like complaining about gravity.

Which is something of an illusion of course.
If Texas and Georgia start going blue then we might see it change.  Hard to say, the oldsters don't think anything can change.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5551 on: August 02, 2020, 05:38:30 PM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 05:16:38 PM
In any event, the electoral college making for some wacky politics, as elections boil down to a handful of states and whatever their pet issues are.  There's no incentive to campaign in every state nor address the issues of every person, since the math makes it dumb to do so.  Similarly, the math makes third parties an impossible option.  Some changes in voting could open that up - ranked choice voting, proportional voting - there are other systems out there to fit the needs of what we want.  But so far, what we want is an electoral college that makes no sense and and to choose between a Republican and Democrat in nearly every election.
Even though I am very much in favor of the electoral college I have to admit you are correct about it does promote a two party system which in turn, I think is ineffective. 
If it meant we could do something different then a two party system then I would be in favor of eliminating the electoral college so for me it’s a little bit of a catch 22 because with a two party system there’s no way I could support illumination of the EC.

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847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5552 on: August 02, 2020, 05:38:56 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 05:27:08 PM
Before 2000, the EC and the popular vote coincided in every case but one, as I recall. 

I sort of enjoy the pandemonium and cries of unfairness every time it happens and youngsters discover the Electoral College and think it's unfair because they think we're a democracy.

If I thought there was any realistic chance it might change, I might ponder it a bit more.  But really it's like complaining about gravity.

Which is something of an illusion of course.
I find it very disturbing that so many "kids" think we are a democracy. Makes me wonder what they are being taught in school by history revisionists. 
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5553 on: August 02, 2020, 05:40:12 PM »
I expect TX and GA to turn purple fairly soon, and I expect the EC will survive even that just fine.  The barrier to change is simply too high, and of course, if TX and GA are purple, it won't matter in terms of outcomes anyway.

We'll be back to popular vote wins of 4-5-6% and EC wins of a much larger apparent margin and folks will forget the EC even exists.

I think the widest spread in recent history is not that much of a spread on the popular vote really, 59%?  And the number of candidate who have achieved a majority in the popular vote is also remarkably small of late.

So, even by the popular vote, the President is elected by a plurality at best.
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MaximumSam

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5554 on: August 02, 2020, 05:40:14 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 02, 2020, 05:38:56 PM
I find it very disturbing that so many "kids" think we are a democracy. Makes me wonder what they are being taught in school by history revisionists.
History.  We are supposed to be a democracy.  
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5555 on: August 02, 2020, 05:41:03 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 02, 2020, 05:38:56 PM
I find it very disturbing that so many "kids" think we are a democracy. Makes me wonder what they are being taught in school by history revisionists.

The term is thrown around so often it gets blurred.  And kids didn't pay attention to this stuff, I know I didn't.
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5556 on: August 02, 2020, 05:41:19 PM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 05:40:14 PM
History.  We are supposed to be a democracy. 
Surely you know better than this.
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847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5557 on: August 02, 2020, 05:41:25 PM »
Eliminating the EC would give total control to the 10 most populous states - most of the ones that are run the worst in the nation.

Nah.
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