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Topic: Misfits Thread

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847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5558 on: August 02, 2020, 05:42:17 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 05:41:19 PM
Surely you know better than this.
Depends on when the indoctrination occurred. :'(
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5559 on: August 02, 2020, 05:43:34 PM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 05:32:09 PM
Take Idaho.  Four electoral votes, a population of about 1.8 million people.  Right now, with the electoral college, there is zero reason for Republicans or Democrats to pay attention to this state or the people in it.  Democrats have no shot to win the state, so why should they care about any of the people there?  Republicans have no competition there, so why should they care?

If you remove the electoral college, there is reason for both parties to pay attention, because they need to win as many votes as they can, and there is a reason for them to try and win those votes.  It would also be this way across the entire country - so Republicans would have incentive to get votes in New York and California (where right now they have none).

The Electoral College prevents us from being politically dominated by one or two gigantic states that that the rest of the country finds repugnant, and that of course is a disadvantage for those of you who fawn over that trendy ideology. But it also provides you people with the distinct advantage of starting every election on third base, with California and NY already in your back pocket. All you have to do is figure out a way not to be completely repulsive to the rest of the Nation, and you'd win every election in a landslide. Instead, you roll out a candidate so cringy that she loses to a guy who picked up politics as a hobby the year before, even though she had the sitting potus, the mediots, the entire entertainment industry, and silicon valley at her beck and call. 
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MaximumSam

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5560 on: August 02, 2020, 05:46:50 PM »
Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 02, 2020, 05:38:30 PM
Even though I am very much in favor of the electoral college I have to admit you are correct about it does promote a two party system which in turn, I think is ineffective. 
If it meant we could do something different then a two party system then I would be in favor of eliminating the electoral college so for me it’s a little bit of a catch 22 because with a two party system there’s no way I could support illumination of the EC.


I don't think getting rid of the electoral college, by itself, changes the party system.  The party system develops because we have "all or nothing" voting.  The person who gets the most votes gets the position and the loser gets nothing.  Voters want their voices heard but they often have to choose between which party represents their position the best and also has a shot to win.  This is what makes the two party system extremely tough to crack.  
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847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5561 on: August 02, 2020, 05:48:08 PM »
Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on August 02, 2020, 05:43:34 PM
Instead, you roll out a candidate so cringy that she loses to a guy who picked up politics as a hobby the year before, even though she had the sitting potus, the mediots, the entire entertainment industry, and silicon valley at her beck and call.
And the FBI.
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5562 on: August 02, 2020, 05:54:32 PM »
I find fault personally with how "we" choose nominees.  I have not liked any nominee in, well, quite some time now.  At all.

But that's another discussion probably best left in left field.

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MaximumSam

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5563 on: August 02, 2020, 05:55:11 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 05:41:19 PM
Surely you know better than this.
Oh I absolutely know it to be true.  It was the entire point.  Now, obviously they had their flaws - like whose votes count in a democracy.  But the idea of having votes then running it through some stupid algorithm to award an election to the second place getter would have been laughed right out the door.  Their idea of the electoral college involved people voting for electors, not the Frankenstein monster where we vote for a candidate that the electors then vote for.
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MaximumSam

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5564 on: August 02, 2020, 05:59:23 PM »
Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on August 02, 2020, 05:43:34 PM
The Electoral College prevents us from being politically dominated by one or two gigantic states that that the rest of the country finds repugnant, and that of course is a disadvantage for those of you who fawn over that trendy ideology. But it also provides you people with the distinct advantage of starting every election on third base, with California and NY already in your back pocket. All you have to do is figure out a way not to be completely repulsive to the rest of the Nation, and you'd win every election in a landslide. Instead, you roll out a candidate so cringy that she loses to a guy who picked up politics as a hobby the year before, even though she had the sitting potus, the mediots, the entire entertainment industry, and silicon valley at her beck and call.
The math on that doesn't check out.  Votes in Indiana count more without an electoral college, not less.

Also, you get lots of talk about how "divided" we are.  Of course we are divided - the votes of the vast bulk of the country are more or less irrelevant because of the electoral college.
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5565 on: August 02, 2020, 05:59:27 PM »
The founders were scared to death of pure democracy, which is why they only allowed one office to be directly elected, the House.

It's a representative republic, not a democracy.

They did not trust the majority to do the right thing, obviously.  
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MaximumSam

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5566 on: August 02, 2020, 06:00:40 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 05:59:27 PM
The founders were scared to death of pure democracy, which is why they only allowed one office to be directly elected, the House.

It's a representative republic, not a democracy.

They did not trust the majority to do the right thing, obviously. 
That's a difference of no consequence.  They wanted people to vote for representatives, with the person with the most votes being the representative.  That's democracy.
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5567 on: August 02, 2020, 06:04:08 PM »
Well, OK then,  I see we have an example of the product of our schooling system.

Somehow.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5568 on: August 02, 2020, 06:04:56 PM »
Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on August 02, 2020, 05:43:34 PM
The Electoral College prevents us from being politically dominated by one or two gigantic states that that the rest of the country finds repugnant, and that of course is a disadvantage for those of you who fawn over that trendy ideology. But it also provides you people with the distinct advantage of starting every election on third base, with California and NY already in your back pocket. All you have to do is figure out a way not to be completely repulsive to the rest of the Nation, and you'd win every election in a landslide. Instead, you roll out a candidate so cringy that she loses to a guy who picked up politics as a hobby the year before, even though she had the sitting potus, the mediots, the entire entertainment industry, and silicon valley at her beck and call.
Your best post!  Add Badges FBI part, and it’s perfect. 
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MaximumSam

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5569 on: August 02, 2020, 06:05:54 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 06:04:08 PM
Well, OK then,  I see we have an example of the product of our schooling system.

Somehow.
LOL, well it helps to read.
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5570 on: August 02, 2020, 06:07:03 PM »
The Founders COULD have set this all up quite simply,  Majority rules etc.  You vote straight out for your representative and that is the end of that.  But, they didn't.  Why not?

Because they feared the will of the majority suppressing the minority, so they installed very clear attempted safe guards to separate the people from government elected offices, with the one exception.

That is why this difference between a democracy and a republic is so important.  They may have been wrong, but their intent is abundantly clear, to find ways of protesting us from majority rule by the masses.

These were educated men, wealthy in many cases, they did not trust "the masses".
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5571 on: August 02, 2020, 06:10:20 PM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 05:46:50 PM
I don't think getting rid of the electoral college, by itself, changes the party system.  The party system develops because we have "all or nothing" voting.  The person who gets the most votes gets the position and the loser gets nothing.  Voters want their voices heard but they often have to choose between which party represents their position the best and also has a shot to win.  This is what makes the two party system extremely tough to crack. 
Agreed.   It’s looking line this will be the second election in a row where I find the 2 choices so repulsive I can’t, with clear conscience, pull the lever for either.  

you can shame me for that- and I won’t deny it. I am embarrassed to not vote again.  But I will get over my embarrassment eventually, whereas I may not for casting a vote.  

Is this really the best we can do? 
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