header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: Misfits Thread

 (Read 397913 times)

Honestbuckeye

  • Team Captain
  • *******
  • Posts: 5790
  • Liked:
Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5684 on: August 03, 2020, 12:35:29 PM »
true, why is it that only convicted felons have to be paid up to vote?  Why not all voters?

outstanding parking tickets?  sorry, your vote doesn't count
Owe property tax on your house?  sorry
All legitimate questions. I did not write this law but I certainly understand the thought process behind it.

There are many people including myself who believe it when you commit a felony you give up your rights or at least some of them for some period of time because generally you have taken someone else’s rights away from them when you commit the felony.

It boggles my mind that this is even a debate in this country but it is. There are a lot of people who do not see crime or Felonise as any kind of problem at all that people should be held accountable for or punished for.

If someone has judgment bad enough to commit a felony do we really care about their vote?  I certainly do not
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

GopherRock

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2421
  • Liked:
Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5685 on: August 03, 2020, 12:42:10 PM »
Why do you say that?
I don't think that we know that a President Hillary Clinton would be facing large GOP majorities in Congress today.  President Donald Trump lost his House majority in the 2018 mid-terms and figures to lose his Senate majority this round whether he is re-elected or not.
That the GOP members of Congress would be largely hostile to her agenda I do not dispute.
Merrick Garland.

If Mitch McConnell doesn't want him occupying that seat, for whatever reason, then hold hearings and vote no. 

MaximumSam

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 13059
  • Liked:
Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5686 on: August 03, 2020, 12:47:09 PM »
Poll tax, heh.  I stayed too long around lawyers I reckon and like to use precise language when possible.
The proper definition is a tax per person to raise money. Though in context with the history of the United States, a poll tax was a scheme to prevent black people from voting. 

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12131
  • Liked:
Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5687 on: August 03, 2020, 12:47:29 PM »
I think a lot of that "ire" is over blown. I don't believe much of anything, anymore. Kinda sad.
Add here it is...



https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1290282508303716352

Honestbuckeye

  • Team Captain
  • *******
  • Posts: 5790
  • Liked:
Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5688 on: August 03, 2020, 12:53:56 PM »
Add here it is...



https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1290282508303716352
He should not tweet.  Sinks himself to Nazi Pelosi’s level- which is the lowest of all bars. 
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37385
  • Liked:
Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5689 on: August 03, 2020, 12:57:03 PM »
apparently he has no handlers
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37385
  • Liked:
Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5690 on: August 03, 2020, 01:00:13 PM »
All legitimate questions. I did not write this law but I certainly understand the thought process behind it.

thought process?

Dems want more people voting - let the felons vote, bolsters their side
Repubs don't like it - pass law to take many of those votes away

it's just one more example of the two sides arguing over crap that doesn't matter and won't change anything in a good way for the people
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

CWSooner

  • Team Captain
  • *******
  • Posts: 6045
  • Liked:
Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5691 on: August 03, 2020, 01:04:15 PM »
The Framers of the Constitution had few historical examples of successful governments that were not monarchies.  They had the extremely short-lived direct democracy of ancient Athens (which wasn't very democratic, because only a small minority of the adult population could vote), the sad example of the Roman Republic (which was a very mixed system that makes ours look simple and easily comprehensible by comparison) that morphed into an autocracy in fact if not in theory, the rather short-lived Venetian Republic (which was even less democratic than the ancient Athenian democracy), and Switzerland, which is a republic in the form of a confederation.  Oh, then there was the short-lived "Commonwealth"-republic of England under the dictatorship of Oliver Cromwell.

And their whole point in gaining independence was to fight against tyrannical government.  They didn't want to trade royal tyranny for home-grown tyranny.  They had tried the very decentralized Articles of Confederation, which proved not to work very well.  They needed a central government that had more powers than the Confederation government had had, and they needed ways to keep the federal government from becoming tyrannical.

So gave the federal government more power--too much power in the eyes of the Anti-Federalists like George Mason and Patrick Henry--and they included all the things that we now call checks and balances, although those terms are not in the Constitution.  Separating the federal structure into three branches, each of which can to some degree check actions of the other two (through vetoes, veto overrides, impeachment, ruling laws unconstitutional, etc.), is a check, or rather a series of checks. Making the Senate represent different interests than the House is another.  Dividing powers between the states and the federal government is another.

And the Bill of Rights (1st 10 Amendments) put further restrictions on what the federal government could do.  Unfortunately (IMO), since the ratification of the 10th Amendment, all amendments that have dealt with federal-state relationships have strengthened the federal government at the expense of the states and/or the people.  The first three examples--the "Reconstruction Amendments"--were absolutely necessary, but nevertheless shifted the balance--13th Amendment abolishing slavery, 14th Amendment establishing birthright citizenship and equal protection of the laws, and 15th Amendment guaranteeing male-citizen voting rights.  I would argue that subsequent amendments were less necessary.  The 16th, income tax, was an ostensible attempt to level the economic playing field with a progressive tax.  But it empowered the federal government to look into everyone's bank account.  The 17th, direct election of U.S. Senators, as previously discussed, reduced the power of the states and weakened the check that the House and Senate are supposed to exercise upon each other.  The 18th imposed national prohibition of alcohol, and the 19th guaranteed female suffrage in every state.  Those four were the "Progressive-Era Amendments," and aside from their other effects for good or ill, they are consistent with Progressive efforts to strengthen the federal government and weaken the states.

To get back to my point, the Framers were attempting to create a government that would work, that would last, and that would not become tyrannical.  Fairness was not the main goal, and democracy was something to be restrained rather than magnified.

Incidentally, Woodrow Wilson, the great Progressive POTUS (who was also the most racist POTUS since Andrew Johnson) was the first president to openly disdain the Constitution.  He advocated a parliamentary system.  He was lucky he didn't have one, as the Democrats lost control of Congress in the 1918 mid-terms, so he would have lost a vote of confidence right at the end of WWI and Henry Cabot Lodge, or some other Republican, would have been our chief negotiator at the peace conference in Paris.

I say that Wilson was the first POTUS to openly disdain the Constitution, but T. Roosevelt (earlier POTUS) pretty much disregarded it whenever it got in his way.  He just didn't openly say that the Framers were idiots and that checks and balances were mischievous impediments to good government.
Play Like a Champion Today

CWSooner

  • Team Captain
  • *******
  • Posts: 6045
  • Liked:
Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5692 on: August 03, 2020, 01:06:18 PM »
Merrick Garland.

If Mitch McConnell doesn't want him occupying that seat, for whatever reason, then hold hearings and vote no.
How would Merrick Garland have guaranteed 4 years of GOP control of Congress under an H. Clinton presidency?
Play Like a Champion Today

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12131
  • Liked:
Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5693 on: August 03, 2020, 01:14:40 PM »
To get back to my point, the Framers were attempting to create a government that would work, that would last, and that would not become tyrannical.  Fairness was not the main goal, and democracy was something to be restrained rather than magnified.
Well said. I think this is under-appreciated by most. 

The Declaration of Independence says it quite well:

Quote
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.


The goal was to have a just and responsible government that was functional--the choice of democracy vs representative republic vs monarchy was all about what would be most functional for the people.

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71151
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5694 on: August 03, 2020, 03:16:27 PM »
The proper definition is a tax per person to raise money. Though in context with the history of the United States, a poll tax was a scheme to prevent black people from voting.
What does any of that have to do with requiring convicted felons to complete any sentencing requirements before being allowed to vote?

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71151
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5695 on: August 03, 2020, 03:25:06 PM »
We're home.  The wife's surgery lasted two hours, the latter part of which I was getting worried (one hour slated).  The tear was worse than expected, but should be fine in a few months.  She's sleeping, or trying to.  She had this rather large impressive black shoulder harness with a red ball on the end near her hand.

She had a tear in the supraspinatus tendon, apparently at an unusual angle, generally called a rotator cuff injury.

Mine is different, apparently, though I have damage, he's going to fix mine using a different technique.  I hurt my arm in 1972, originally.  Ended my pitching career in effect, though I have tried to continue at various times, which probably didn't do it any good.

A biceps tenodesis is a type of surgery used to treat a tear in the tendon that connects your biceps muscle to your shoulder. The tenodesis may be performed alone or as part of a larger procedure on the shoulder. A tendon attaches muscle to bone.

A Mumford procedure is the removal of the farthest outer portion of the clavicle (or collarbone) which creates a more normal amount of space for shoulder movements. Some individuals are more likely to have shoulder impingement issues (ie. a pinching in the small spaces in the shoulder) due to their bony anatomy.

MrNubbz

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 17099
  • Liked:
Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5696 on: August 03, 2020, 03:31:48 PM »
  I hurt my arm in 1972, originally.  Ended my pitching career in effect, though I have tried to continue at various times, which probably didn't do it any good.

I thought snapping your head back repeatedly watching screaming line drives leaving the park did that
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71151
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5697 on: August 03, 2020, 03:35:28 PM »
I thought snapping your head back repeatedly watching screaming line drives leaving the park did that
I have never allowed a dinger in my life.  I have allowed quite a few screaming line drives.  

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.