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Topic: Misfits Thread

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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7448 on: August 28, 2020, 10:23:30 PM »
Literally anyone else.  Obviously.  Christians are voting for the least Jesus-like option possible.  Willfully and proudly.
I think you are over generalizing.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7449 on: August 28, 2020, 10:24:05 PM »
If pro-lifers were making an exception for black and brown abortions, what would you say then?  
If I understand correctly, I think it'd be revealing.  

I don't think the white pro-lifers have thought out the "what if" there had been zero abortions in the past 40 years.  They'd be horrifically outnumbered and lose every national election.  They'd be supporting tens of millions more poor minorities than they're reluctant to aid now.  

It would be an even more radical time than we have now, by far.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7450 on: August 28, 2020, 10:24:37 PM »
Hey he took one for the team and according to Shelby Foote his staff Surgeon was treating Union casualties
ASJ may have been a fine man (for a slaveholder), but he wasn't a good 4-star general.
As you can perhaps imagine, I have gotten into debates in the comments on Youtube Civil War videos with neo-Confederates and others who consider Shelby Foote to be the greatest of all Civil War historians.
Foote wrote a brilliantly readable and fascinating narrative account of the Civil War.  His 3 volumes are great works of the type of art they are.  But he was not a historian and The Civil War: A Narrative is not history.  He didn't use a historian's methods and he didn't call himself a historian.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7451 on: August 28, 2020, 10:24:49 PM »
I think you are over generalizing.
I may be specifying southern christians over northern christians, yes.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

longhorn320

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7452 on: August 28, 2020, 10:25:38 PM »
Literally anyone else.  Obviously.  Christians are voting for the least Jesus-like option possible.  Willfully and proudly.
Jesus-like?


Just what would you know about Jesus-like Mr non believer
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7453 on: August 28, 2020, 10:31:16 PM »
I think a baby is a human being at every point - from sperm and egg to butt slapping and every stage in between.  To me, life doesn't begin at conception - it began far before that.  The "pro-choice" and "pro-life" labels are, to me, an arbitrary decision on where we choose to recognize the legals rights of a person and choose to end some legal rights of the mother.  While conception and birth are the obvious bright line rules, they are hardly the only points.  Roe v. Wade famously talked about rights more or less gradually changing as the child grew in the womb.  The bright line rule could even be before conception.

In any event, to me, a bright line rule saying birth is the trigger is the least evil and most good result, while also acknowledging that you will run into some evil situations under that rule.
Thank you for your answer.  We disagree, but I appreciate your PoV.
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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7454 on: August 28, 2020, 10:42:04 PM »
Trump is who he is.  Certainly unorthodox for a president.  Do you think his actions and behaviors are annoying or actually dangerous?

He's certainly divisive.  Either you love him or hate him.  That in itself might be dangerous.

I don't see talking about a 3rd term or mount Rushmore as anything but crazy talk to bring out emotions from supporters and haters.
I think that his actions and behaviors fray the fabric of our politics.  They make us trust each other less and hate each other more.  And he benefits from that.  I think he's dangerous for all of that, but I think he'd be much more dangerous if he could hold a single idea in his mind for longer than it takes to read the next tweet that interests him.
I agree that the talk is crazy talk, but we don't need a president who uses crazy talk to fire up his base.  That in itself is destructive.
And, I will say, I have liked some of his policies.  I think that his two SCOTUS nominees have been solid, although he perhaps could have done a little better than Kavanaugh (not because of the smear job done on him by the Democrats).  I like that he moved our embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, even though I think he did it for the wrong reason, and even though I think his policies toward Israel have worked to make support for that country a very partisan issue.
And he has destroyed the integrity of the Republican Party (to the extent that it had some) and discredited conservative politics in the eyes of every person not his supporter.
I've probably liked his policies more than I will Biden's (a very low bar to clear), but I still view him as the greater of two evils.
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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7455 on: August 28, 2020, 10:47:25 PM »
Yes - democracy and republic are not synonyms. But they are also not antonyms.  A democracy suggest people vote for their government, and a republic suggests representatives are in the government.  We obviously live in a democracy and we obviously live in a republic.  That's why Trump's election, while legal, is offensive to both.  He wasn't elected democratically, as he lost the vote.  He also wasn't elected by via republicanism - no elected delegate decided he was the best man for the job.  All of his electoral voted were tied to winner takes all state votes.  It's a system that is truly the worst of both worlds.

Anyways, I'm a believer in people being able to participate in their governance, and argument that people shouldn't get to vote because we don't live in a democracy get scoffed at by me.  I'm very sanguine on how much elected officials choose senators and presidents v. directly by the people.  My main goal is that elected people are actually elected by the people and not by geographic tricks or efforts to keep people from participating.
You're right--they're not antonyms.  As I mentioned, they can and often do co-exist.
Trump was elected by virtue of federalism, another part of the Constitutional framework, combined with democracy at the state level.
We don't have national plebiscite like we would if we were a mass democracy.  That's fine with me.
You have more faith in more democracy than I do.
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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7456 on: August 28, 2020, 10:54:45 PM »
If I understand correctly, I think it'd be revealing. 

I don't think the white pro-lifers have thought out the "what if" there had been zero abortions in the past 40 years.  They'd be horrifically outnumbered and lose every national election.  They'd be supporting tens of millions more poor minorities than they're reluctant to aid now. 

It would be an even more radical time than we have now, by far.
You didn't respond to the main point of my post.  I'll refresh your memory.
In response to your claim that pro-lifers are motivated to save the lives of unborn black and brown babies so that they (the pro-lifers) can have black and brown servants to wait on them, I posted:

Quote
If pro-lifers were making an exception for black and brown abortions, what would you say then?  I doubt that you would be praising them for preventing more black and brown people from lives of servility.

You've cleverly rigged the terms of the debate so that you get to win either way.

So, would you praise pro-lifers if they made exceptions for unborn black and brown babies?
Obviously, you wouldn't.  So, as I pointed out, you rigged the terms of the debate so that you win either way.  Pro-lifers are wrong in your book no matter what their motivation is.
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FearlessF

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7457 on: August 28, 2020, 10:58:24 PM »
I've probably liked his policies more than I will Biden's (a very low bar to clear), but I still view him as the greater of two evils.
Biden certainly isn't dangerous.  He will be handled by the people in power of the Democratic party.  I'm a bit afraid of some of the policies they will push.

I doubt Biden will help unite the people much, but that would be better than further dividing the country.

I viewed Hillary as the greater of two evils 4 years ago.
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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7458 on: August 28, 2020, 11:03:49 PM »
Biden certainly isn't dangerous.  He will be handled by the people in power of the Democratic party.  I'm a bit afraid of some of the policies they will push.

I doubt Biden will help unite the people much, but that would be better than further dividing the country.

I viewed Hillary as the greater of two evils 4 years ago.
So did I.  But I threw away my vote on Gary Johnson, the Libertarian.  I wish the Libertarians would nominate a serious candidate.  I've been told the Libertarian nominee this year has more/better ideas than merely legalizing marijuana.
I was happy on election night that Trump won, more because Hillary lost than because of his win.
But the thrill didn't last long.  I took a student group to the Inauguration, and I was thoroughly dismayed by Trump's behavior around the Inaugural and his "Everything has sucked up till now, and things will never suck again now that I am in charge" address.
My students thought it was great.
I never again want to be in Washington on Inauguration Day.
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Kris60

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7459 on: August 28, 2020, 11:06:12 PM »
If I understand correctly, I think it'd be revealing. 

I don't think the white pro-lifers have thought out the "what if" there had been zero abortions in the past 40 years.  They'd be horrifically outnumbered and lose every national election.  They'd be supporting tens of millions more poor minorities than they're reluctant to aid now. 

It would be an even more radical time than we have now, by far. 
It’s a tough balance for us to strike.  We don’t want to be outnumbered but need our houses cleaned and yards mowed.  My wife and I had this discussion just the other day as we were YouTubing Jeff Foxworthy videos while letting off  fireworks and cleaning our guns.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7460 on: August 28, 2020, 11:08:29 PM »
Biden certainly isn't dangerous.  He will be handled by the people in power of the Democratic party.  I'm a bit afraid of some of the policies they will push.

I doubt Biden will help unite the people much, but that would be better than further dividing the country.

I viewed Hillary as the greater of two evils 4 years ago.
I can’t believe I voted democratic almost across the board just a few elections ago. 

I now view them as the party of racism, divisiveness, dishonesty, obstruction, hate, violence, intolerance- and more than anything else- hypocrisy. not to mention they piss on the constitution constantly.

Biden himself is not much of anything/ a career politician who never accomplished a thing. But I doubt he would have much to say about policy. Which might be good- his fastball left him long ago.

So- no vote from me.  A crappy person versus a crappy party. 
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7461 on: August 28, 2020, 11:08:57 PM »
It’s a tough balance for us to strike.  We don’t want to be outnumbered but need our houses cleaned and yards mowed.  My wife and I had this discussion just the other day as we were YouTubing Jeff Foxworthy videos while letting off  fireworks and cleaning our guns.
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