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Topic: Misfits Thread

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2730 on: June 05, 2020, 12:50:39 PM »
my point is that everybody is yelling to defund the police when in fact the police is a tool used by elected city leaders

change needs to come from the citiy,s leaders not just the police department

and change needs to be facilitated by reducing the crime drugs and gangs

defunding the police wont only not fix the problem but will elevate it

I do agree that defunding the police doesn't fix the problem. That's the wrong avenue to solve the issue. 

My point is that you don't solve the gang problem unless you solve the drug problem, and you don't solve the drug problem unless you change the controlled substances act--or you have SUCH an overwhelming push to legalize something like marijuana that state legislatures are doing it in contravention of federal law. 

City leaders can't solve the drug problem.

Mdot21

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2731 on: June 05, 2020, 12:52:07 PM »
I was just curious. I'm using a company called Sandstar, and they are handling everything.

In my last house, up North, I used a company called J&K for cabinets. This time, I'd use them over my dead body. Not that they were bad. They are made in China. So, NO. I'll just pay more this time.

For that kitchen, the J&K cost me $6K. The estimate for Omega came in at $18K. I'm sure there were some in the middle, but we (in Illinois) were still struggling with the 2008 thing, so I conserved cash.

In fact, Illinois is still struggling with the 2008 thing, or so they like to say... Glad I sold a while back.
Lol! I've got plenty of experience with J&K. I've used them here and there for years on spec homes and remodels. Whenever I'd use them I would replace most of the hardware and guts with hardware from a manufacturer like blum or richileui. I was bidding kitchens & bathrooms for an entire apartment complex and I tried to get quotes from J&K to supply all the cabinets for the kitchens and bathrooms of 260 units, and one of the sales guys tried telling me J&K was probably too high end for apartments and were more for new homes and remodels and I laughed on the phone. Didn't mean too, just happened naturally.

J&K is good looking, but for the most part it's cheaply made Chinese RTA product. The pricing was great though, but that's until the tariffs came and made it a bit more expensive. I honestly haven't used J&K in awhile. I've got a place in Pompano and one in Hialeah that carries the Chinese RTA  stuff in-stock and the product is virtually the same as J&K. Maybe a little bit less in quality but they are also even cheaper.

It's not bad at all for the price, but to be honest with you, every single cabinet manufacturer from China is not as good as American, Canadian, or European. Europeans make the best stuff, but it's also the most expensive stuff.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2732 on: June 05, 2020, 12:53:18 PM »
The programs most republicans are against funding are the same programs that will help lower gang participation and crime rates.  That's the face palm aspect of this situation. 
OAM, let's assume for a moment that you're right. Gang problems are the result of poor healthcare options, poor education options, which have resulted in entire portions of cities to be stuck in a "permanent underclass" situation.

So let's say we fund those programs. How long will it take for it to fix the problems in those communities? A generation? Two generations? 

Sounds like the exact sort of pie-in-the-sky thinking that Cincy complains about in the climate thread -- high on hope and short on specifics.

Maybe funding those programs is a good thing, but it won't result in any tangible change on the time horizon that we need it.

What do you have for the SHORT term to solve these problems? 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2733 on: June 05, 2020, 01:00:09 PM »
OAM, let's assume for a moment that you're right. Gang problems are the result of poor healthcare options, poor education options, which have resulted in entire portions of cities to be stuck in a "permanent underclass" situation.

So let's say we fund those programs. How long will it take for it to fix the problems in those communities? A generation? Two generations?

Sounds like the exact sort of pie-in-the-sky thinking that Cincy complains about in the climate thread -- high on hope and short on specifics.

Maybe funding those programs is a good thing, but it won't result in any tangible change on the time horizon that we need it.

What do you have for the SHORT term to solve these problems?
I believe a short-term solution IS a pie-in-the-sky proposition.  You can't fix decades of wrongdoing quickly, sorry.  It would probably take 2 generations at least - one to grow up in a more accepting society and another for that cohort to raise kids of their own. 

You're suggesting good things, and I agree with you, but yeah...this is going to take a long time to fix.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2734 on: June 05, 2020, 02:08:02 PM »
I believe a short-term solution IS a pie-in-the-sky proposition.  You can't fix decades of wrongdoing quickly, sorry.  It would probably take 2 generations at least - one to grow up in a more accepting society and another for that cohort to raise kids of their own. 

You're suggesting good things, and I agree with you, but yeah...this is going to take a long time to fix.
We need to develop trust. Without that, there will be nothing. And trust works both ways.
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2735 on: June 05, 2020, 02:10:05 PM »
We need Sprinkles and Rainbows and Justice for All and a chicken in every pot.

Yay.

847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2736 on: June 05, 2020, 02:15:10 PM »
We need Sprinkles and Rainbows and Justice for All and a chicken in every pot.

Yay.
Can we have brisket instead of chicken?

Or proper chili?
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2737 on: June 05, 2020, 02:21:19 PM »
Yeah, I sort of chuckle at some folks spattering social media with calls for "justice" and burfle like that, as if it's a tangible thing.

We need understanding and trust and better use of the tight end.  It's burfle, pastries to be lapped up by the masses.


MrNubbz

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2738 on: June 05, 2020, 03:05:18 PM »
Can we have brisket instead of chicken?

Or proper chili?
Watch it buster or we'll have to shut this thread down
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2739 on: June 05, 2020, 03:19:42 PM »
Below was sent to Rep Katie Porter, and slightly different wording to Senators Feinstein and Harris (asking they publicly support the House version and push for similar in the Senate). I also sent a copy to Ayanna Pressley, but Justin Amash's web site doesn't allow email from out-of-district zip codes, so I couldn't forward to him. 

If any of you want to submit something similar to your own Representatives/Senators, feel free to use whatever you like from the below as a template. 


Quote
Dear Representative Porter,

In the wake of the brutal murder of George Floyd at the hands of police, and the subsequent protests, riots, and continued unrest that followed, many of us are asking "how can we solve this problem?"

Many are hoping that we can find a way to end racism, to end systematic and institutionalized poor treatment of minorities in our criminal justice system, and that we as a society can begin to heal.

Unfortunately, what is missing is tangible solutions. I sincerely hope that we can end racism and heal ourselves as a society. I am doing my best, as a white man and a father, to not perpetuate this behavior in my personal life and to make sure that my children are likewise raised not to be a part of a problem, but to be part of the solution. I worry that's a generational target that doesn't help the situation, today, on the ground. It's worthy goal, but the time horizon is too long. I've always believed people aren't born racist; it's inculcated in them by the biases of the generations ahead of them. Their parents, their extended family, their community. Very little that I can do to try to raise my own children properly will help avoid racism in those who are being taught wrongly elsewhere. Which makes trying to solve racism, while a wonderful goal and one that we should pursue, too little and too late to help people today.

I believe that most police officers are good people who chose that life because they want to make their communities safer. The problem is caused by a small minority, but the effects that small minority have on the whole are disastrous. I believe those good officers may detest the actions of the bad ones, but feel powerless to stop it for many--completely understandable--reasons. Sadly, the end result is a system that shields the bad apples from the consequences of their actions.

But we CAN make this better. And we can make this better in a shorter term, by changing the incentives that police have TODAY to act badly, and increasing the incentives to actually weed out the bad apples among them.

House Representatives Ayanna Pressley and Justin Amash are circulating a letter arguing that Congress can put an end to one of the key shields the bad actors in our police system hide behind: Qualified Immunity.


https://twitter.com/justinamash/status/1268353415295500289

Today it's possible to sue the police department in civil court for excessive force / brutality / wrongful death. But due to qualified immunity--and in particular the way qualified immunity is adjudicated--it is NEARLY impossible to sue the individual offending officer in civil court and have any chance of success.

So while cities may occasionally feel the pain in their pocketbooks due to losing a lawsuit (and it's just taxpayer dollars anyway), the individual officers are mostly shielded from civil liability.

Now, it can be argued that we don't want to subject officers to financial ruin because of a lawsuit. As politicians, I'm certain that some of your constituents and supporters, and possibly campaign contributors (police and their union) will argue that this will be the outcome. But that need not be the case, for it's a faulty argument. The medical malpractice insurance industry already gives us a blueprint to avoid that. By ending qualified immunity but also requiring police to carry malpractice insurance, we create a financial system that incentivizes good behavior and punishes bad, and can be tailored to each individual officer based upon their history and risk profile.

Here's how I see it potentially working.

  • The police malpractice insurance industry will need to have ways to accurately risk-price individual officers. Much like getting auto insurance, your risk is mainly tied to your own actions, and there are clear red flags that suggest you're a higher risk (in auto insurance, regularly getting speeding tickets or causing accidents, for one).
  • Those red flags might be things like citizen complaints against officers, IA investigations, history of lawsuits brought, etc. Some officers [such as Derek Chauvin, who had a history of malfeasance before murdering George Floyd] may find themselves eventually priced out of policing due to their risk profile being so bad that they can't afford the insurance. Want to weed out the bad apples? They'll price themselves out by their own actions.
  • Officers could possibly qualify for premium reductions by doing things like regularly taking alternative escalation training, community sensitivity courses, etc. You can find ways to reinforce positive behavior and make it in officers' financial interests to do so. 

The only way that I see to improve this system in the short term--at the federal level which affects all departments--is to end qualified immunity. It is within Congress' power to do so. While this will be fought, I hope that the above will help deflect the arguments which would be used against the bill.

Representative Porter, I ask that you cosponsor Rep Pressley's bill when it is written, and do everything you can to help it pass.

Thank you for your time.


bayareabadger

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2740 on: June 05, 2020, 03:29:48 PM »
Can we have brisket instead of chicken?

Or proper chili?
In theory I'm getting a beef rib for lunch tomorrow. Though a work obligation might force me to send a friend to pick it up.

Let us pray that doesn't happen. 

847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2741 on: June 05, 2020, 03:34:22 PM »
Below was sent to Rep Katie Porter, and slightly different wording to Senators Feinstein and Harris (asking they publicly support the House version and push for similar in the Senate). I also sent a copy to Ayanna Pressley, but Justin Amash's web site doesn't allow email from out-of-district zip codes, so I couldn't forward to him.

If any of you want to submit something similar to your own Representatives/Senators, feel free to use whatever you like from the below as a template.



Representative Casten, Senator Durbin, and Senator Duckworth:
 
A friend of mine crafted this letter to his local representative in California, and I tend to agree with it – 100 percent. I really think it can make a difference. I would like you to consider this and have a conversation with Representatives Ayanna Pressley and Justin Amash. I believe this could go a long way toward short-term healing – which we sorely need right now.


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Riffraft

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2742 on: June 05, 2020, 03:36:00 PM »
Decades ago, I watched 60 Minutes almost religiously.  Then, they did a piece on the Bradley AFV that was, um, ridiculously slanted, saying its armor would not stand up to a Russian tank round.  Duh.

Then they did one on the Audi "unintended" acceleration issue.  The car mags had a field day with that one, they had inadvertently reproduced the acceleration with an Audi, but the brake lights weren't on.  The real truth was that European cars, not just Audis had the brake pedal closer to the accelerator than was typical for US cars because they had to leave room for the clutch pedal, even if the car was an automatic. 

They did some other show that was similarly bad and I concluded they contrive a story line and then force fit the narrative to that line.  Imagine they come up with a story, several per week, and check it out with film and crews and it turns out they were wrong about it.  What do they show on TV?  They rig the event.

And I have experienced personally an interview where my actual meaning was distorted by editing.
The same experience. Loved 60 minutes in the 70s into the 80s and then I found out about how they rigged and edited 

Riffraft

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2743 on: June 05, 2020, 03:39:36 PM »
Haven't bother to catch up on my reading of this thread, so sorry if this has already been said.

When the American public saw the video  94% of the people of this nation were outraged (according to a survey I saw can remember who did it). 

Even with the protest people were still agreeing with things. However with the riots and looting we have lost the conversation dealing with police brutality and that is a shame. 

 

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