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Topic: Misfits Thread

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847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #4732 on: July 09, 2020, 12:23:20 AM »
Collective bargaining is also a major failure. Public employee unions will bring this country down, as they are some of the most radical and violent groups in this country.
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847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #4733 on: July 09, 2020, 12:24:35 AM »
I'm on a roll. Just got back from a "public meeting" with a client.

Government sucks ass.


Nighty night.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

MaximumSam

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #4734 on: July 09, 2020, 06:37:47 AM »
Collective bargaining is also a major failure. Public employee unions will bring this country down, as they are some of the most radical and violent groups in this country.
I dunno man.  My parents were in a public employee union as teachers as the local college.  The college board were well connected friends of the governor who mostly made decisions to hire other people they knew to run the college and reduce teacher positions to make up the difference.  The only way to combat that was through the union, which they did.  You could say, a private college would function better! Perhaps that would right, though more likely is the college wouldn't exist at all in private form.

MrNubbz

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #4735 on: July 09, 2020, 06:41:46 AM »
yes there are way too many Chiefs and not enough Indians.What members of the local school district are making is henious.
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

NorthernOhioBuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #4736 on: July 09, 2020, 07:08:15 AM »
I dunno man.  My parents were in a public employee union as teachers as the local college.  The college board were well connected friends of the governor who mostly made decisions to hire other people they knew to run the college and reduce teacher positions to make up the difference.  The only way to combat that was through the union, which they did.  You could say, a private college would function better! Perhaps that would right, though more likely is the college wouldn't exist at all in private form.
As someone that was elected to the local school board, I have a different take. It was almost impossible to get rid of a bad teacher. You almost had to have them commit a crime before you could get rid of them. The union would protect them no matter how bad a teacher they were. 

My feelings on the matter are that these people are supposed to be professionals. They should be able to stand on their own qualifications, yet they need an external body to speak for them. I found it abhorrent. 


Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #4737 on: July 09, 2020, 07:23:39 AM »
When my first kid was starting high school, the teachers went on strike.  They were marching outside the HS and I was worried the school year might not start on time.  I happened to know the head of the school board and he told me "Don't worry, this is a game, everyone understands the game."  And everything did get resolved on time.  That union seemed to be more about collective bargaining, money, than anything, a group with which the school board could negotiate.

It never happened again, I'm not sure why, I was expecting it to be a routine when contracts came up.  Maybe they just caved.  

I asked them after their first year at OSU if they felt well prepared and both said "Oh yeah, no problem.".  

I was not well prepared for college myself, IMHO.  That was my aim for them.

I think the unions for public workers can get onerous, some here have noted the police unions tend to keep bad policemen on the job.

MaximumSam

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #4738 on: July 09, 2020, 07:25:20 AM »
As someone that was elected to the local school board, I have a different take. It was almost impossible to get rid of a bad teacher. You almost had to have them commit a crime before you could get rid of them. The union would protect them no matter how bad a teacher they were.

My feelings on the matter are that these people are supposed to be professionals. They should be able to stand on their own qualifications, yet they need an external body to speak for them. I found it abhorrent.


I suppose, though it ain't like it's easy to fire the school board either if they are a bunch of screwups.

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #4739 on: July 09, 2020, 07:39:06 AM »
The public in theory has control over a school board.  

A public union obviously can be corrupt and counterproductive, and the public has no control over that.

MaximumSam

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #4740 on: July 09, 2020, 07:42:05 AM »
The public in theory has control over a school board. 

A public union obviously can be corrupt and counterproductive, and the public has no control over that.
In theory, sure.  The school board has control over firing the teachers, in theory.

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #4741 on: July 09, 2020, 07:54:00 AM »
With contracts, it can become practicably impossible to fire someone.  

It was that way where I worked (unless you were a white male of course).  I went through the process of trying to fire a completely inept and useless worker (he was a white male) and it was an almost full time effort.  I had 8 other people to manage at the time, and it was exhausting, and the Company "resources" were no help either.

This guy was a danger in the lab, I had to tell him to sit in his office and do nothing.  Someone else had hired him and he got dumped on me.  We didn't have a union, but we had a worse than useless group of idiots running HR.  We'd get wildly differing instructions from them week after week.

None of that was union related, but I can easily see how a union contract can obstruct firing worthless workers.  Management just loses interest and says "Well, just put Bob in an office doing nothing."  It's demoralizing to everyone else aware of the situation.

I had to deal with a fellow in another group, and he was never around.  I kept asking where he was, he had results I needed, and his coworkers would laugh at me.  Nobody would say anything because he was black.  I went to his boss and got the run around.  I finally managed to get the data I needed and moved on.  It turned out, I learned much later, this guy, a PhD chemist, was flipping houses and never came to work.  He realized they couldn't/wouldn't fire him, so he snagged a nice salary and flipped houses.

He NEVER came to work, not even an hour a week.  The rest of the chemists in that group knew not to say anything about it.  This went on for two years, and then he finally left, the reasons were not revealed.  He was untouchable.  This sort of thing was uncommon, but not unprecedented.

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #4742 on: July 09, 2020, 08:06:20 AM »
As for public unions, it's not as if "we" can do much of anything about them.  They exist, they will continue to exist, so it's a fact of life kind of thing.

I can imagine quite a few public workers basically do little or nothing workwise.  I can see how a mayor can park cronies and cousins in highly paid positions for which they are not remotely qualified.

MaximumSam

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #4743 on: July 09, 2020, 08:12:59 AM »
As for public unions, it's not as if "we" can do much of anything about them.  They exist, they will continue to exist, so it's a fact of life kind of thing.

I can imagine quite a few public workers basically do little or nothing workwise.  I can see how a mayor can park cronies and cousins in highly paid positions for which they are not remotely qualified.
It's no secret it's good to be connected. The highest education officer in the land is Betsy Devos, who has scant qualifications outside of being extremely wealthy and well connected. It's the way of the world.

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #4744 on: July 09, 2020, 08:41:34 AM »
I don't expect Cabinet heads to be "qualified", I'm surprised when they are.  Even if they have background, it's irrelevant in my view.  They are politicians and managers.


847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #4745 on: July 09, 2020, 09:01:30 AM »
I suppose, though it ain't like it's easy to fire the school board either if they are a bunch of screwups.
Depends on whether they are elected, or appointed (like in Chicago).
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