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Topic: Misfits Thread

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2478 on: June 02, 2020, 03:45:53 PM »
Quote from: bwarbiany on June 02, 2020, 03:43:37 PM
It was a previous decision that stated money=speech, and you can't stop people from speaking.

All Citizens United did was say that the act of forming a corporate entity doesn't mean you can't use your money to speak.
Yeah, that's horse shit.  It was dead-wrong from the moment it passed.  Money needs to be removed from speech, not synonymous with it.  
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FearlessF

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2479 on: June 02, 2020, 03:46:46 PM »
hah, they blame funding, but there has been considerable push back from police departments and their unions

even in Iowa

I think it's VERY telling

they know what they are doing and they certainly do NOT want to be accountable
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2480 on: June 02, 2020, 03:47:52 PM »
So, if I'm very wealthy and wish to espouse my opinion using said money, I shouldn't be able to do that?

I don't even know how that could be enforced were it the law.  It's pretty easy to fund a "mockumentary" or whatever to get an opinion across.

And CU was specifically about a film on Hillary.

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2481 on: June 02, 2020, 03:48:54 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on June 02, 2020, 03:45:21 PM
And it did not somehow allow unlimited money to flow to political campaigns, meaning the campaigns of specific politicians of course.

The main thing it enabled was union spending on SuperPACs.

I'm not sure how changing that prevents cops from using excessive force.
It's unrelated (or specifically, 100 steps from one to the other).

The specifics don't change the fact that it allows one entity to sprinkle infinite money across campaigns, across districts and states, influencing elections AND superpacs to outspend up to national campaigns.

It's wrong.  It's mimicking the legal system, in which the wealthier you are, the better.  Wealth should be irrelevant in terms of guilt/innocence and worthiness of holding public office.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2482 on: June 02, 2020, 03:49:35 PM »
Quote from: FearlessF on June 02, 2020, 03:46:46 PM
hah, they blame funding, but there has been considerable push back from police departments and their unions

even in Iowa

I think it's VERY telling

they know what they are doing and they certainly do NOT want to be accountable
No one who's previously not been held accountable wants to suddenly be held accountable.
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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2483 on: June 02, 2020, 03:50:19 PM »
The statistics for police killings don't show a significant disparity in the racial makeup of victims when controlled for the circumstances.  In fact, there's a slight, probably statistically insignificant, difference showing that cops are more likely to shoot a white, under the same circumstances.  It's the cops' excessive hassling of young black men that ruins everything and makes black people distrust and disrespect the police.  Along with, unfortunately, the fact that young black men are the demographic that commits a disproportionate percentage of crimes.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2484 on: June 02, 2020, 03:50:35 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 02:46:15 PM
Yeah, you're wrong here.  Again.
You're free to speak and free to report as the press.  And you're provided time to do so.  But you're not going to allow money/ratings to bastardize it.  The only reason media outets are so different at reporting the same things is to get more eyeballs. 
You're free to use your money to produce the news.  To inform.  Without dollars, you have to EARN eyeballs by providing the best coverage, not that we'd keep track of who gets the most viewers anyway.
How's that work, then? 

How do you determine whether someone is a news organization and thereby unable to earn advertising?

What about, say, The Daily Show? I'd argue they are an entertainment program, but they also report the news. Do we take away their advertising?

What about opinion shows? After all, Hannity doesn't report the news; that's not his purpose. Fox News spends most of the daytime reporting news but their evening programming is all opinion shows. Can Hannity still have his shows and earn advertising dollars? 

If you say Hannity can't have his show, you're throwing the first amendment out the door. If you say Hannity CAN have his show because it's an opinion show and not "press", then you're just going to have more and more opinion shows and making the problem worse.

To put it bluntly; this is a terrible idea.
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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2485 on: June 02, 2020, 03:55:12 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 03:45:53 PM
Yeah, that's horse shit.  It was dead-wrong from the moment it passed.  Money needs to be removed from speech, not synonymous with it.
OK.  How and when do I--with no large stash of money--get the same platform as the one that the Washington Post has?  Or Fox News?  Do those two entities have to divest themselves of money and operated on donations from passersby?
"Money needs to be removed from speech" is just cant.
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FearlessF

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2486 on: June 02, 2020, 03:56:00 PM »
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - With cities across America in turmoil over the death of George Floyd, a U.S. lawmaker plans to introduce legislation this week that he hopes will end a pattern of police violence by allowing victims to sue officers for illegal and unconstitutional acts.

U.S. Representative Justin Amash, a former Republican turned Libertarian, won support from a Minneapolis Democrat on Monday for his “Ending Qualified Immunity Act,” which would allow civil lawsuits against police, a recourse that the Supreme Court has all but done away with.

The high court's adoption (here) of the qualified immunity doctrine has largely shielded police from financial settlements for victims or grieving families. The doctrine protects cops even when courts determine that officers violate civil rights, a Reuters investigation showed here


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-congress-idUSKBN23831W?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A%20Trending%20Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR38JBY9NeUROBOhmZ_wRs1JQNdZzNZ8bfF6BKNw2QXIha7dRj5uOZO7Z9g
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2487 on: June 02, 2020, 03:56:39 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on June 02, 2020, 03:47:52 PM
So, if I'm very wealthy and wish to espouse my opinion using said money, I shouldn't be able to do that?

I don't even know how that could be enforced were it the law.  It's pretty easy to fund a "mockumentary" or whatever to get an opinion across.

And CU was specifically about a film on Hillary.


You should be free to use your wealth independently.  I think the whole idea of the media is an obvious, dangerous line when it comes to politics.  
The founding fathers couldn't anticipate one person directly influencing millions of people every day.  
Charles Koch is free to donate the same max amount to a campaign as you or I.
Fox is free to continue providing the news.

But beyond that, no.  One man shouldn't be donating to 30 different races, including districts he's never even been to.  No, news channels shouldn't provide 1% news and 99% commentary in an attempt to attract viewers to gain advertisers.  

It's all broken.
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FearlessF

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2488 on: June 02, 2020, 03:58:49 PM »
I'm a white people and I distrust and disrespect the police.

yes, past experiences with them

I'd feel better if they had a video camera on at all times they are interacting with me.

there are plenty of "good" cops and deputies.  I just haven't met many.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2489 on: June 02, 2020, 04:00:28 PM »
Quote from: bwarbiany on June 02, 2020, 03:50:35 PM
How's that work, then?

How do you determine whether someone is a news organization and thereby unable to earn advertising?

What about, say, The Daily Show? I'd argue they are an entertainment program, but they also report the news. Do we take away their advertising?

What about opinion shows? After all, Hannity doesn't report the news; that's not his purpose. Fox News spends most of the daytime reporting news but their evening programming is all opinion shows. Can Hannity still have his shows and earn advertising dollars?

If you say Hannity can't have his show, you're throwing the first amendment out the door. If you say Hannity CAN have his show because it's an opinion show and not "press", then you're just going to have more and more opinion shows and making the problem worse.

To put it bluntly; this is a terrible idea.
Hannity is free to have a show, just not on a "news channel".  To be honest, I doubt news channels should even exist, but whatever.

I don't know about the Daily Show, that's a tough one.  I assume "news" would have to be very specifically defined and programs like the Daily Show and Hannity would toe that line, perhaps trying to blur it.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2490 on: June 02, 2020, 04:00:31 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2020, 03:45:53 PM
Yeah, that's horse shit.  It was dead-wrong from the moment it passed.  Money needs to be removed from speech, not synonymous with it. 
Yeah, problem is that if you don't have any money, the only people who can hear your speech are within a 20 ft radius.

Want to send out a direct mailer on a political topic? Sorry, can't do that, because paper and postage cost money, and money isn't speech.

Want to take out a radio ad about a political topic that you're passionate about? Sorry, can't do that, because airtime costs money and money isn't speech.

The local network news wants to have a guest on their nightly broadcast who might talk about something political? Sorry, can't do that because FCC licenses and broadcast towers are REALLY expensive, and money isn't speech.

I guess nobody can talk about politics except over the fence to their neighbor, and that'll solve the problem!
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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2491 on: June 02, 2020, 04:01:23 PM »
Quote from: bayareabadger on June 02, 2020, 01:49:51 PM
I'm sure I could concoct some situation where I might, but in the vast majority of situations, I agree.

But I've seen folks, maybe of a different strand from say a "liberal media" or "Hollywood Elites," advocating for some violence.
Yep.

We've got antifa on one side and the alt-right on the other both advocating violence.
Antifa is purposely escalating lawful, legitimate protest into violence and destruction, while the alt-right is shouting "shoot to kill the looters!"
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