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Topic: Misfits Thread

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MrNubbz

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2464 on: June 02, 2020, 02:50:03 PM »
You can send a kid (of any color or creed) to the best school in the city, but if it's not reinforced at home, it will do no good for anyone.
Ed Zachery
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longhorn320

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2465 on: June 02, 2020, 02:58:18 PM »
Yeah, you're wrong here.  Again.
You're free to speak and free to report as the press.  And you're provided time to do so.  But you're not going to allow money/ratings to bastardize it.  The only reason media outets are so different at reporting the same things is to get more eyeballs. 
You're free to use your money to produce the news.  To inform.  Without dollars, you have to EARN eyeballs by providing the best coverage, not that we'd keep track of who gets the most viewers anyway.
Im sure this would work
Surprised it hasnt been done before
just take the money away and ya got it
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MrNubbz

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2466 on: June 02, 2020, 02:59:02 PM »
😅😂😂

ok that was hilarious
Don't laugh it only incourages him
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longhorn320

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2467 on: June 02, 2020, 03:02:07 PM »
Don't laugh it only incourages him
OAM would you consider becoming Biden's running mate

with your ideas and his trigger quick mind you guys would win in a landslide
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MrNubbz

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2468 on: June 02, 2020, 03:12:45 PM »
Huh - you're lumping me in with him - take that back
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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2469 on: June 02, 2020, 03:20:13 PM »
I mean, it was said by a supreme court justice? Who I think might've walked it back to a degree.

Anyway, its meaning is kinda murky and has a bad history.
We're talking about Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
Per the Font of All Wisdom and Knowledge:

Quote
Schenck v. United States
In a series of opinions surrounding the World War I Espionage Act of 1917 and the Sedition Act of 1918, he held that the freedom of expression guaranteed by federal and state constitutions simply declared a common-law privilege for speech and the press, even when those expressions caused injury, but that privilege would be defeated by a showing of malice, or intent to do harm. Holmes came to write three unanimous opinions for the Supreme Court that arose from prosecutions under the 1917 Espionage Act because in an earlier case, Baltzer v. United States, he had circulated a powerfully expressed dissent, when the majority had voted to uphold a conviction of immigrant socialists, who had circulated a petition criticizing the draft. Apparently learning that he was likely to publish this dissent, the Government (perhaps alerted by Justice Louis D. Brandeis, newly appointed by President Woodrow Wilson) abandoned the case, and it was dismissed by the Court. The Chief Justice then asked Holmes to write opinions in which they could be unanimous, upholding convictions in three similar cases, where there were jury findings that speeches or leaflets were published with an intent to obstruct the draft, a crime under the 1917 law. Although there was no evidence that the attempts had succeeded, Holmes held for a unanimous Court that an attempt, purely by language, could be prosecuted in cases where the expression, in the circumstances in which it was uttered, posed a "clear and present danger" of causing some harm that the legislature had properly forbidden. In Schenck v. United States, Holmes announced this doctrine for a unanimous Court, famously declaring that the First Amendment could not be understood to provide an absolute right, and would not protect a person "falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic." Although much criticized, Schenck remains an important precedent, and still governs cases in which expressions are intended to cause harm, or threaten to cause imminent lawless action.[24]

Abrams v. United States
Later that year, however, in Abrams v. United States, Holmes was again in dissent. The Wilson Administration was vigorously prosecuting those suspected of sympathies with the recent Russian Revolution, as well as opponents of the war against Germany. The defendants in this case were socialists and anarchists, recent immigrants from Russia who opposed the apparent efforts of the United States to intervene in the Russian Civil War. They were charged with violations of the 1918 amendments to the Espionage Act which were known as the Sedition Act of 1918, and which purported to make criticisms of the government and the war effort a crime. Abrams and his co-defendants were charged with distributing leaflets that in Yiddish called for a "general strike" to protest the US intervention in Russia. A majority of the Court voted to uphold the convictions and sentences of ten and twenty years, to be followed by deportation. Holmes was moved to dissent. The majority claimed to be following the precedents already set in Schenck and the companion cases in which Holmes had written for the Court, but Holmes insisted that the defendants' leaflets neither threatened to cause any harm, nor showed the specific intent to hinder the war effort. Holmes condemned the Wilson Administration's prosecution, and its insistence on draconian sentences for the defendants in passionate language: "Even if I am technically wrong [regarding the defendants' intent] and enough can be squeezed from these poor and puny anonymities to turn the color of legal litmus paper ... the most nominal punishment seems to be all that possibly could be inflicted, unless the defendants are to be made to suffer, not for what the indictment alleges, but for the creed that they avow ..." Holmes then went on to explain the importance of freedom of thought in a democracy:

Quote
[W]hen men have realized that time has upset many fighting faiths, they may come to believe ... that the best test of truth is the power of the thought to get itself accepted in the competition of the market, and that truth is the only ground upon which their wishes can safely be carried out. That, at any rate, is the theory of Constitution. It is an experiment, as all life is an experiment.
In writing this dissent, Holmes may have been influenced by Zechariah Chafee's article "Freedom of Speech in War Time".[25][26] Chafee had criticized Holmes's opinion in Schenck for failing to express in more detail and more clearly the common-law doctrines upon which he relied. In his Abrams dissent, Holmes did elaborate somewhat on the decision in Schenck, roughly along the lines that Chafee had suggested. Although Holmes evidently believed that he was adhering to his own precedent, some later commentators accused Holmes of inconsistency, even of seeking to curry favor with his young admirers.[27] In Abrams, the majority opinion did rely on the clear-and-present-danger formulation of Schenck, claiming that the leaflets showed the necessary intent, and ignoring the point that they were unlikely to have any effect. In later opinions, the Supreme Court departed from this line of reasoning where the validity of a statute was in question, adopting the principle that a legislature could properly declare that some forms of speech posed a clear and present danger, regardless of the circumstances in which they were uttered. Holmes continued to dissent.

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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2470 on: June 02, 2020, 03:23:25 PM »
Many problems and issues in life simply do not have a practicable solution.  People sell fig leaves to try and sound like a solution for PR, but they often are not real solutions, and do nothing but waste time and money.

CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2471 on: June 02, 2020, 03:25:26 PM »
Yeah, you're wrong here.  Again.
You're free to speak and free to report as the press.  And you're provided time to do so.  But you're not going to allow money/ratings to bastardize it.  The only reason media outets are so different at reporting the same things is to get more eyeballs. 
You're free to use your money to produce the news.  To inform.  Without dollars, you have to EARN eyeballs by providing the best coverage, not that we'd keep track of who gets the most viewers anyway.
You know that's the logic behind the Citizens United SCOTUS decision, don't you?
It's a decision I support, but I'm a bit surprised to see you aligning with its logic.
Yes, freedom of the press--just like freedom of speech--applies to everyone, not just companies that have "Times" or "Post" or "Herald," or "ABC" or "NBC" or CBS" or "Fox News" in their names.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2472 on: June 02, 2020, 03:35:14 PM »
You know that's the logic behind the Citizens United SCOTUS decision, don't you?
It's a decision I support, but I'm a bit surprised to see you aligning with its logic.
Yes, freedom of the press--just like freedom of speech--applies to everyone, not just companies that have "Times" or "Post" or "Herald," or "ABC" or "NBC" or CBS" or "Fox News" in their names.
Citizens United allowed unlimited money into political campaigns.  I'm against that.  (see Coch bros)

I'm against advertisting/ratings for newscasts.  Way back in the day, the gov't set aside an hour per day for the news, because our country depends on an informed electorate.  It eventually became the evening news.  

I'm not aware that Citizen's United calls to pull all monies from those networks, during that set-aside time.  I simply think it was a failure of prediction for the gov't to have wanted an informed electorate, but failed to address the financials.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2473 on: June 02, 2020, 03:36:40 PM »
Citizens United allowed unlimited money into political campaigns.  I'm against that.  (see Coch bros)

Um .....


FearlessF

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2474 on: June 02, 2020, 03:37:28 PM »
How should a Democratic leader get 100 million people to become emapthetic?

Why are you utterly incapable of role-reversing this.  If time after time, unarmed white men were murdered by those tasked to serve an protect and nothing came of it?? 
do you think white cops and black cops haven't killed unarmed white men and continue to do so?  Or that black cops haven't killed black men?

it may not happen as often as white cops and black men, but this isn't ALL about race.

IMO, it's more about abuse of power and authority, without accountability

w/o the video, there would be no accountability here.

my suggestion is to require cops to wear and record their activities with a body camera.  This is just an idea, but I feel it could easily be done and it could easily help
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2475 on: June 02, 2020, 03:43:37 PM »
Citizens United allowed unlimited money into political campaigns.  I'm against that.  (see Coch bros)
It was a previous decision that stated money=speech, and you can't stop people from speaking.

All Citizens United did was say that the act of forming a corporate entity doesn't mean you can't use your money to speak.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2476 on: June 02, 2020, 03:44:13 PM »
my suggestion is to require cops to wear and record their activities with a body camera.  This is just an idea, but I feel it could easily be done and it could easily help
I thought was already a thing.  If not, then $$$ funding $$$ is probably the culprit.
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2477 on: June 02, 2020, 03:45:21 PM »
And it did not somehow allow unlimited money to flow to political campaigns, meaning the campaigns of specific politicians of course.

The main thing it enabled was union spending on SuperPACs.

I'm not sure how changing that prevents cops from using excessive force.

 

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