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if candidates want to do a poll for their own info to help their campaign, that's fine

the people don't need the results

the people can make their own decisions based on their thoughts

if a group of voters or potential voters want poll information, they can poll whoever and however they'd like

the people don't need to be told how the rest of America thinks

Could you explain this further?  You were a Bernie guy...the most earnest, sympathetic candidate out there the last few cycles and vote for Trump?  I need help following that, truly.  I'm not being sarcastic or anything.

The two men are overtly diametrically opposed.  I've heard of Bernie people voting for Trump, I've just never met any.

A lot of what Bernie wants- I don't agree with. I liked him because I knew much of what he wanted- he'd never be able to pass- but I also felt like he was by far the least corrupt on the Democratic side and was the single candidate on either side that was truly the most for the people. Trump and Bernie actually overlap on a few important things for me- wars (lack of wars I should say), prescription drugs, trade (CHINA). Things Biden clearly gives zero shits about- why? Because he's bought and paid not to- that's why. 

Obama was arguably the worst President in the history of this country, and maybe the most corrupt. And Biden- one of the most corrupt, career long politicians that has ever existed in this country- was his #2 guy in that administration. Joe Biden and his brother and sons have been cashing in on his political career for millions of dollars for oh- the last 50 years. Why don't you do a little research on Biden. Dude was an openly racist POS in the '70s that said he didn't want his kids in desegregated schools or living in a racial jungle, the crime bill he championed and co-authored in the '90s hurt poor black people more than any single piece of legislation in modern history, he's corrupt as they come and in the back-pocket of wall street and the credit card industry, his family have made millions of dollars- literally- for no reason other than just trading off his name- every speech he's ever made was plagiarized, he's never had an original thought about anything- and he's openly publicly, weirdly, and callously lied like it was no problem at all about everything from graduating in the very top of his class (he didn't- he graduated in the bottom of his class), to being the only kid in his class on full-academic scholarship (he was on a half-academic scholarship) to having 3 degrees (he doesn't), to being arrested with Nelson Mandela (he wasn't) to marching in the civil rights movement (he didn't). 

Biden is a piece of shit of epic proportions. So- throw all that in with him clearly being in mental decline and having early onset dementia - yeah- no way. This country will be irreversibly damaged if he is elected.

Say what you want about Trump- but he's the only president that I can remember since Carter that has showed restraint and not thrown this country into war. The establishment was pushing hard for him to establish no-fly zones and invade Syria and topple Assad and turn it into a failed state just like they did to Iraq & Libya- but he pushed back on them. And he's drawing down in Afghanistan- like that lying snake Obama campaigned he was going to do in 2007-2008- only to ramp that war up. Biden would've had boots on the ground in Syria. He doesn't give a shit about the people in this country that actually have to go serve in those wars and put their lives at risk. He showed that when he voted for that bullshit war in Iraq.

Lighten up.

If you can't find the humor in what I did, I'm sorry.

So this and the resulting posts kind of cut to the core of my unease.

If it's just the sort of feeling of pulling one over on the pollster or the world at large, well, it's a kinda silly sort of humor, but whatever. 

But the other posts. They take it down another road. If we take it down 320's first post and Badge's follow up, the idea is that I'm being lied to (or at least I feel I am), so I must put more lies out into the world. It basically says because I think I'm being wronged, I should wrong others, make sure their world has a little more lie in it. 320 said it rather plainly, he'd rather F with people because there's a perverse joy in being deceitful. 

Badge pointed out we don't need polls at all. And for the most part, that's true. Consumers don't have to be given a product they want. Alas, capitalism exists. And to a degree, they serve something larger in the historical record, at least in some cases trying to gauge how people feel about their world. And instead of opting out, an act people often don't do, we mislead. 

My initial response came down to this: If it's the above reasoning, just a harmless little bit, the world has room for that, even if it's a little not nice. But if it's all the rest of the stuff, well it just feels like adding to the negativity and mistruth of the world that seems full up on it already. 

So this and the resulting posts kind of cut to the core of my unease.

If it's just the sort of feeling of pulling one over on the pollster or the world at large, well, it's a kinda silly sort of humor, but whatever.

But the other posts. They take it down another road. If we take it down 320's first post and Badge's follow up, the idea is that I'm being lied to (or at least I feel I am), so I must put more lies out into the world. It basically says because I think I'm being wronged, I should wrong others, make sure their world has a little more lie in it. 320 said it rather plainly, he'd rather F with people because there's a perverse joy in being deceitful.

Badge pointed out we don't need polls at all. And for the most part, that's true. Consumers don't have to be given a product they want. Alas, capitalism exists. And to a degree, they serve something larger in the historical record, at least in some cases trying to gauge how people feel about their world. And instead of opting out, an act people often don't do, we mislead.

My initial response came down to this: If it's the above reasoning, just a harmless little bit, the world has room for that, even if it's a little not nice. But if it's all the rest of the stuff, well it just feels like adding to the negativity and mistruth of the world that seems full up on it already.

polls are silly

very similar to surveys

I suppose a survey of vacationers could be useful if you want to go on a nice beach vacation with your daughters. Survey results of the top 10 beaches in the US, of the world, of Florida.  I've looked at them for this reason.  I then asked a local from the St. Pete/Tampa area and just took her word for it.  Hell, it's just her opinion or the opinion of a group of others.

I'd hope those folks weren't trying to mislead me for no good reason, but I'm skeptical.

same with ratings for bars or the best chicken wings in an area.   It's a popularity poll.

heck, I'm shopping for winter tires for my pickup.  Who shall I believe?  I'm not going to be able to spend enough time researching all the various options.  And even that research is from resources I'm not sure about.  I can't test drive 4 different options of tires in winter conditions before buying in a few weeks.

polls are silly

very similar to surveys

I suppose a survey of vacationers could be useful if you want to go on a nice beach vacation with your daughters. Survey results of the top 10 beaches in the US, of the world, of Florida.  I've looked at them for this reason.  I then asked a local from the St. Pete/Tampa area and just took her word for it.  Hell, it's just her opinion or the opinion of a group of others.

I'd hope those folks weren't trying to mislead me for no good reason, but I'm skeptical.

same with ratings for bars or the best chicken wings in an area.  It's a popularity poll.

heck, I'm shopping for winter tires for my pickup.  Who shall I believe?  I'm not going to be able to spend enough time researching all the various options.  And even that research is from resources I'm not sure about.  I can't test drive 4 different options of tires in winter conditions before buying in a few weeks.

Some of those actually seem kind of valuable. Not as a be-all, end-all, but as a good bit of guidance. I use those ratings often, and often enjoy good wings and bars. Maybe they're bought and paid for, but I'm enjoying just the same. 

Let me put it another way. People seem to be bothered when a thing they see is a lie, but they also seem to gain a level of joy from lying themselves, especially if it has a sort of toxic edge to it. 

So we get irreversible damage no matter what happens? And we get someone in a bad state of mental decline no matter what? Joy!

We’re probably f*ked no matter what. We’re just less f*ked with Trump. 

Biden is in mental decline AND he’s a corrupt a piece of shit.

We’re probably f*ked no matter what. We’re just less f*ked with Trump.

Biden is in mental decline AND he’s a corrupt a piece of shit.

Again, that last part, still fitting both fellas.