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Topic: Misfits Thread

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847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #6902 on: August 26, 2020, 02:52:51 PM »
So this rioting is considered terrorism, or all rioting is?

I suppose in either case, it's a sharp/ruthless choice by the insurance companies, unless they never covered riots to begin with.
I'm not sure why you keep pushing this. This is domestic terrorism.


domestic terrorism (noun)
  • the committing of terrorist acts in the perpetrator's own country against their fellow citizens.

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bayareabadger

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #6903 on: August 26, 2020, 02:54:38 PM »

This may set race relations back in Wisconsin 10 or 20 years.
Oh, I dunno about that. They've been powerful strained for a long while. 

Cincydawg

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bayareabadger

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #6905 on: August 26, 2020, 03:07:30 PM »
I'm not sure why you keep pushing this. This is domestic terrorism.


domestic terrorism (noun)
  • the committing of terrorist acts in the perpetrator's own country against their fellow citizens.


I'm pushing it because I'm curious if the push to consider these acts domestic terrorism instead of riots got the insurance companies out of paying. Because it would be both interesting and ironic. 

And the definition, that's not part of any legal code and could be construed extremely widely depending on how one defined a terroristic act. 

847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #6906 on: August 26, 2020, 03:17:01 PM »
Terrorism, the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective. Terrorism has been practiced by political organizations with both rightist and leftist objectives, by nationalistic and religious groups, by revolutionaries, and even by state institutions such as armies, intelligence services, and police.
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847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #6907 on: August 26, 2020, 03:23:52 PM »
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Sunday, May 31, 2020

Attorney General William P. Barr's Statement on Riots and Domestic Terrorism


Attorney General William P. Barr has issued the following statement:
“With the rioting that is occurring in many of our cities around the country, the voices of peaceful and legitimate protests have been hijacked by violent radical elements.  Groups of outside radicals and agitators are exploiting the situation to pursue their own separate, violent, and extremist agenda.
It is time to stop watching the violence and to confront and stop it.  The continued violence and destruction of property endangers the lives and livelihoods of others, and interferes with the rights of peaceful protestors, as well as all other citizens. 
It also undercuts the urgent work that needs to be done – through constructive engagement between affected communities and law enforcement leaders – to address legitimate grievances.  Preventing reconciliation and driving us apart is the goal of these radical groups, and we cannot let them succeed. 
It is the responsibility of state and local leaders to ensure that adequate law enforcement resources, including the National Guard where necessary, are deployed on the streets to reestablish law and order.  We saw this finally happen in Minneapolis last night, and it worked. 
Federal law enforcement actions will be directed at apprehending and charging the violent radical agitators who have hijacked peaceful protest and are engaged in violations of federal law.
To identify criminal organizers and instigators, and to coordinate federal resources with our state and local partners, federal law enforcement is using our existing network of 56 regional FBI Joint Terrorism Task Forces (JTTF). 
The violence instigated and carried out by Antifa and other similar groups in connection with the rioting is domestic terrorism and will be treated accordingly.”



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longhorn320

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #6908 on: August 26, 2020, 03:24:50 PM »
I'm pushing it because I'm curious if the push to consider these acts domestic terrorism instead of riots got the insurance companies out of paying. Because it would be both interesting and ironic.

And the definition, that's not part of any legal code and could be construed extremely widely depending on how one defined a terroristic act.
One of the excuses rioters use and Ive heard them say it is that hey its covered by insurance so the property owners really arent losing anything

with that logic you can rob banks and steal almost anything you want with no harm done

brilliant 
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #6909 on: August 26, 2020, 03:26:31 PM »
I doubt most looters think about it at all really, it's just THE MAN they are hitting, not some small time business owner.

And they get TVs.

Some might justify their actions after the fact in that vein.

847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #6910 on: August 26, 2020, 03:27:37 PM »
One of the excuses rioters use and Ive heard them say it is that hey its covered by insurance so the property owners really arent losing anything

with that logic you can rob banks and steal almost anything you want with no harm done

brilliant
I've heard that too, and those people are full of it. Unless they have a rider to cover domestic terrorism, they DO lose everything.

My friend who owns a chocolate shop chose to buy the rider. Her insurance premium almost doubled.
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MaximumSam

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #6911 on: August 26, 2020, 03:46:58 PM »
Our rights are all limited, all of them.  And once the police or mayor declare a riot or a curfew, you lost your right to protest.  Obviously, an sensible protester who was interested in peaceful protest would comply.

It's somewhat akin to being required to wear a mask in public because of a public health emergency. 


The well known 10 pm exception to the 1st Amendment

SFBadger96

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #6912 on: August 26, 2020, 03:48:15 PM »
Sadly, our attorney general has lost the confidence of more than half of the population. I find zero comfort in anything he says. That is atypical. 

Sadly, what is going on has turned into viewing things universally through a political lens. That is atypical. We are as far apart from a united country as we have been in my lifetime. That is more than sad, it's distressing.

Badge: your definition of terrorism (and I agree with it) is not rioting. It is the "calculated use" of violence, which rioting isn't. That doesn't make rioting ok, but it is fundamentally different. Now, instigators--those who plan and intend to incite rioting--they may be fairly accused of terrorism. Even in this situation, that is a very small group of people--and reports from non-politicized government agencies appear to view the problem as coming more from those opposed to the protesters than those who align with them. That's not universal, but in the aggregate.

As I said a few pages back, this whole thing sucks.

But I'll add to that: as long as our leaders fan the flames of division, it will get worse.

SFBadger96

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #6913 on: August 26, 2020, 03:51:56 PM »
The well known 10 pm exception to the 1st Amendment
Many of the best known and respected "peaceful protesters" throughout history would scoff at the notion that because they were told not to protest at a particular time or place, they wouldn't do so. Certainly Ghandi, MLK, and Mandela made their political careers in non-violent protests that broke the law. That is essentially the definition of civil disobedience. It is civil (aka peaceful), but disobedient (unlawful).

MaximumSam

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #6914 on: August 26, 2020, 03:53:31 PM »
I'm pushing it because I'm curious if the push to consider these acts domestic terrorism instead of riots got the insurance companies out of paying. Because it would be both interesting and ironic.

And the definition, that's not part of any legal code and could be construed extremely widely depending on how one defined a terroristic act.
Just so. Obviously the language of the policy is most important. But if it covers things like vandalism, I'm not sure how they can justify not covering vandalism based on the political viewpoint of the vandal. Maybe that's why Bob Barr is making a point about it.

SFBadger96

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #6915 on: August 26, 2020, 03:56:40 PM »
It is true that the jurisprudence around the right to peaceably assemble limits the lawfulness of such assemblies. A peaceable assembly is not necessarily legal under the first amendment. But the point of protest is to get attention, and disobedience is one of the classic ways to accomplish that aim--again, Ghandi, MLK, and Mandela are celebrated for it.

 

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