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Topic: Misfits Thread

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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5600 on: August 02, 2020, 09:53:28 PM »
Masses got it right in 2016
That's a nice talking point for the Democrats, but we don't know how the vote would have turned out had the goal been to win the popular vote.  Both candidates would have campaigned differently.
And I'd say the same thing had the PV and EV winners been switched.  I "wasted" my vote by voting for a 3rd-party candidate.
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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5601 on: August 02, 2020, 09:54:36 PM »
I don't see how anyone could advocate for "the masses" having more influence than less influence.  I'm all for the freedom and influence of a responsible, informed populace, but when did we have that?  Ever?  Access to information has increased infinitely since the founding of our country and I can't help but think a family in the middle of Montana was better informed with the pony express than the average person living in a big city today.
Yep.
You should see HS history and civics exams from ca. 1900.
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847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5602 on: August 02, 2020, 09:56:42 PM »
That's a nice talking point for the Democrats, but we don't know how the vote would have turned out had the goal been to win the popular vote.  Both candidates would have campaigned differently.
And I'd say the same thing had the PV and EV winners been switched.  I "wasted" my vote by voting for a 3rd-party candidate.
As did I. What the hell did it matter in Illinois? The HillBill carried 80% of the vote.

My vote in Florida will matter. I wish all the New York douchebags would move back to where they came from. They are going to F up that state, like they F'd up their own.
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847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5603 on: August 02, 2020, 09:57:37 PM »
Yep.
You should see HS history and civics exams from ca. 1900.
I'd like to see them, if you are so inclined to share. I'd like to compare them with what I was taught in the 1970's.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5604 on: August 02, 2020, 09:58:13 PM »
As did I. What the hell did it matter in Illinois? The HillBill carried 80% of the vote.

My vote in Florida will matter. I wish all the New York douchebags would move back to where they came from. They are going to F up that state, like they F'd up their own.
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FearlessF

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5605 on: August 02, 2020, 10:01:37 PM »
That's a nice talking point for the Democrats, but we don't know how the vote would have turned out had the goal been to win the popular vote.  Both candidates would have campaigned differently.
And I'd say the same thing had the PV and EV winners been switched.  I "wasted" my vote by voting for a 3rd-party candidate.
we also don't know what the democratic candidate would have done or not done in the past 4 years

hindsight is not 20-20
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FearlessF

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5606 on: August 02, 2020, 10:02:45 PM »
As did I. What the hell did it matter in Illinois? The HillBill carried 80% of the vote.

My vote in Florida will matter. I wish all the New York douchebags would move back to where they came from. They are going to F up that state, like they F'd up their own.
the new york and new jersey bags have been there for decades, they're more worried about the latest influx from Chicago
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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5607 on: August 02, 2020, 10:04:15 PM »
It is a good article, though it kind of misses the forest.  Primaries are just how political parties choose a nominee.  They are democratic to the extent that there is an election and the winner  is the nominee.  But because parties limit the options, you don't have a very diverse selection of candidates. Bernie wasn't popular because voters are wacky - Bernie was popular because a wide swathe of voters likes what he was selling.  But because our elections end up having to be a Republican v. a Democrat, instead of several strong candidates, we get two.
Well, the article might have missed the forest, but you may have missed the trees.
The point is that the parties have lost their ability to pick reasonable, electable candidates for whom the parties can reasonably be held responsible.  The bad old days of smoke-filled rooms and handshakes and deals may have been a better system than letting the most angry and energized fragment of the party membership pick the candidates.
In general, I think we should be very modest when we talk about making big changes in a very complex system that has more or less served us well for 230+ years.  We should understand very thoroughly why something was designed the way it was before we start thinking about eliminating it or radically changing it.
I think the 17th Amendment changing the election of U.S. Senators is an example of failing to be careful.  It fundamentally changed the relationship between the House and the Senate and between the states and the federal government.  And not for the best, IMO.
Was it intended to do that?  I don't know for sure, but those Progressives were pretty clever, and they wanted more federal power at the expense of the states, so I know how I would bet if my life depended on it.
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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5608 on: August 02, 2020, 10:11:47 PM »
It was in response to cincy's woe-is-me, things will never change attitude.

You could apply it to anything where the end result is in the distant future.  Going to Mars, building the pyramids at Giza, etc....
I'm not trying to play "Gotcha!"
But often when I hear someone advocating that "we" "invest in the future" what they mean is that I get to pay for something for the goals that those people think are important.
So, to get back to the Greek proverb (which I like, although I'd like to know where it came from), how "we" seem to interpret it is that I don't plant any trees myself, I "get" to pay for other people to plant the trees, only actually they just talk about planting trees and instead what they actually do is produce an expensive study of how planting trees would be a great thing, before demanding that my children and grandchildren pay for it.  And, oh, the trees aren't going to be planted in my neck of the woods anyway, they're going to be planted somewhere that doesn't benefit me in the least.
I like trees, by the way.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 10:27:30 PM by CWSooner »
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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5609 on: August 02, 2020, 10:13:32 PM »
All involved elections, and in none of the elections did they designate for the second or third place vote getter to get the job.
But only the elections for the House were democratic.
By your standard--that SCOTUS justices are chosen democratically--then the EC is the epitome of democracy.
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847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5610 on: August 02, 2020, 10:19:31 PM »
the new york and new jersey bags have been there for decades, they're more worried about the latest influx from Chicago
The people coming from the Midwest carry their habits with them too, for sure, but the people coming from the Midwest are fleeing failure and trying to make their lives better, and make their votes matter. The more people we can get in Florida from Illinois, the better. Those people aren't the ones who want free shit for everyone.
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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5611 on: August 02, 2020, 10:26:14 PM »
I'd like to see them, if you are so inclined to share. I'd like to compare them with what I was taught in the 1970's.
Here it is--an 8th-grade exam that is more than history and civics (sorry!)--on Snopes, which rates it "mixed" because Snopes questions whether the info demonstrates what people claim that it demonstrates.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/1895-exam/

Still, I don't think many 8th-graders today would do well on an updated version of this one.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5612 on: August 02, 2020, 10:46:53 PM »
Here it is--an 8th-grade exam that is more than history and civics (sorry!)--on Snopes, which rates it "mixed" because Snopes questions whether the info demonstrates what people claim that it demonstrates.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/1895-exam/

Still, I don't think many 8th-graders today would do well on an updated version of this one.
Wow.  
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847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5613 on: August 03, 2020, 07:31:26 AM »
Definitely not like today.
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