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LH320: serious question: if the election turns out as today's polls (and polling error) suggest: Biden wins Wisconsin by a hair, Pennsylvania and Michigan by a few percentage points, all else stays effectively the same as 2016, with Biden winning the popular vote by about 3M nationwide, will you believe that the election was legitimate?

I gave up on our System years ago, just gave up.  I don't care who wins.  I try and adjust my personal things as well as I can given whatever outcome.

Other than that, it's out of my hands, and I know it.  

Every Presidential cycle we seem to have options worse than they last.  I have not voted FOR a candidate with any enthusiasm since Bill Bradley was running.

Frankly, it warms my heart that you two aren't Trump supporters. Badge, I agree that Trump is no conservative. The reason I had that misimpression of you is yesterday you said that Trump saved Kenosha (as opposed to the National Guard the governor ordered after the vigilante shooting). While you may not be a Trump supporter, that sentiment shocks me. In my view (back to the Oatmeal), Trump caused Kenosha (not the police shooting, but the violence that followed it), first by his complete lack of empathy, and second by his tacit--and now explicit--support for vigilante "justice." And comparing a single, outspoken member of Congress (from a very safe seat, mind you) to the President as far as impact on the nation's mood seems like a big stretch. That's how my backfire effect brain processes your comments on this subject.

The Governor waited too long. Businesses and property are destroyed, and people are dead.

On Day 2, he called in 125 National Guard - not nearly enough. Then he doubled it on Day 3 - not nearly enough.

On Day 4, he accepted the Federal offer of 1000 US Marshalls and 500 Military Police (these numbers are not reported - only what I'm told by the security force here at the marina, and corroborated by a police officer). Too late.

He also increased the Guard to 1000 members - too late.

That's when the major violence and riots stopped. I'm going to credit the Feds on that, for sure, and also the three states who sent guardsmen to here, which included Michigan, Alabama and Minnesota.

2500 armed forces, combined with the local and county police, is how you crush riots in small cities like this one. Probably need 25000 in Portland??

In talking with two people in the know last night, that 17 year old who shot 3 (killing 2) probably has a self-defense case. His attorney thinks so too, but they always think that. Anyway, he was attacked by armed men. That much is on video. He'll still do time, no matter what, and he should. But I don't think he will be convicted of murder here. You have to be 18 to carry in Wisconsin. The gun was provided to him by the local organizer, who will also do time, as he should. 

Please do not take me as a vigilante supporter. I am not - they are just as dangerous as the rioters. They should all go to jail, and not pass GO.

https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/trump-cant-win/

Kinda funny ...

Whatever the polls say now (and right now they show Hillary ahead), the long-term patterns of American politics tell us that Trump is not going to get millions more votes than Romney did, and he’s not going to carry enough swing states to overcome the historic pattern of Democratic advantage. Hillary will win in November, and she will be sworn in as our next president on January 20.

That's not going to help the theory that Trump voters are afraid to say they are voting for Trump

The USA isn't a homogeneous region.  I think it depends on geography.  Trump voters in Texas certainly aren't going to be afraid to say it.

But in places like Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania?  Yeah, I could definitely see them either lying to the pollster, or lying to themselves, about how they'll eventually vote in November.

LH320: serious question: if the election turns out as today's polls (and polling error) suggest: Biden wins Wisconsin by a hair, Pennsylvania and Michigan by a few percentage points, all else stays effectively the same as 2016, with Biden winning the popular vote by about 3M nationwide, will you believe that the election was legitimate?

if there isnt some earth shattering development sure

now how bout you if Trump wins

We drove around some neighbors the other day we had not explored before.  These are originally middle class locales but because of location (they are close in) they have evolved to being upper middle class in housing prices.  Out of 400 or so houses, I saw 2 Biden signs, and no Trump signs.  I haven't seen a Trump bumper sticker in ages, I rarely see a Biden one, I see more Bernie stickers than anything else.

This is a younger liberal area of town, our Congressman who just passed ran unopposed usually.  The district is about 60% black.  I don't see nearly as many outward expressions of voting preference as I have in the past, the suburbs are probably different.

I do think people are uneasy with expressing themselves outwardly (I would be as well).  I don't know if that impacts polling at all.