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Topic: Misfits Thread

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2366 on: June 01, 2020, 11:04:20 AM »
Not familiar with this site,
ZeroHedge is not generally seen as the most credible of sources. 

They're rated as largely a conspiracy theory site: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/zero-hedge/

CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2367 on: June 01, 2020, 11:10:29 AM »
If you need to constantly weed out so many bad apples then it’s not basically sound.

The police force and criminal justice system is the furthest thing from sound. It’s fundamentally broken.
"Fundamentally broken" implies that it used to be sound.  I'm not sure that's correct.
Having an effective police force is a hard thing to do.  Police work attracts people who shouldn't be policemen in the same way that adult leadership in the Boy Scouts attracts men who shouldn't be around boys and youth pastoring attracts men who shouldn't be around young people in general.  And being a surgeon attracts sadists.  It's tough in all those cases to weed out the bad apples.
And having a criminal justice system that has a high level of success in accurately determining guilt or innocence, protects the rights of the accused, protects the rights of unpopular minorities, observes due process, and delivers justice in a timely fashion is also hard.
It's very challenging to get all those things right.  I'm not sure that the police/criminal justice system is much better in other countries, although I admit that it's not an area I've studied.
The biggest reason that so many systems are broken is that human beings are broken.  Including us right here posting on how broken this that or the other thing is.
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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2368 on: June 01, 2020, 11:22:54 AM »
The police aren’t racist. I promise. SOME maybe sure. But most aren’t. Most people in general aren’t racist. The police are without a doubt however poorly-trained, under-vetted, and overly militarized. It’s a fucking weird job. I don’t know if any human is even cut out to do that job. And it’s sooo difficult to do that job well. And it’s not easy. At all. And it should be one of the hardest to get. But it’s not. It’s very easy to become one. And they typically don’t want smart people who think for themselves working there. They want mindless brainless people who follow orders and keep their mouths shut.

It’s not a racism thing. It’s not even a minority thing. It’s a class thing. Poor people that don’t have many options or opportunities in their lives tend to turn to crime at a much high rate% than those who grow up with middle class or upper middle class or upper class backgrounds who have many options and opportunities at their disposal.

When my ancestors came here from Italy in the early 1900s, they were all dirt poor. And more than a few of wound up where? As criminals in something called the mafia. They didn’t see a whole lot of options at first, they were treated like shit- and then banned from coming into the US entirely- and many turned to crime. That’s why there were so many jokes in the 1970s by comedians like Richard Pryor and George Carlin that not all Italians were in the mafia, but all of them worked for the mafia.

Italians were a small % of the population then. At that point about 10% of the population. But as a % of the population they were disproportionately engaging in serious crime. Sound familiar?

We have a class problem. We have an income inequality problem. There is an entire class of people who have very little options or a way out. And when many of those people turn to crime to make a living because they want to make a real living and not work a bullshit job that pays them next to nothing- well they’re going to run into police at a much higher rate than people who don’t lead a life of crime.

The police brutalize everyone. Not just black people. Want to cut the amount of police brutality in half- get rid of unconstitutional stop and frisk laws, cut the police force drastically, legalize drugs and end the ridiculously stupid “war on drugs”, de-militarize the police and have them get rid of all their military grade weapons and equipment, get rid of ticket quotas and eliminate cops pulling people over for bullshit reasons just so they can write bullshit tickets, prosecute police for brutality and murder when deserved- stop shielding them with immunity basically- vet candidates way better- make it aloooooot more difficult to become an officer- and make all current officers take polygraph, iq, and personality tests and fire the ones who aren’t fit for the job.

That will all largely end police brutality. For everyone. But will it help pull black people out of poverty? Will it fix completely run down and broken black neighborhoods like Detroit? Probably not. Rich people typically speaking give zero fu***ks about poor people. And the elites in the Democratic and Republican Party have all been captured by big monied interests. And that is who they always take care of first. Barack Obama gave two squirts of piss about the poor or minorities. Just like every president before him. He had Citigroup and Black Rock on speed dial doe.

/End Rant
I agree with most of what you wrote there, including the discrimination against Italian immigrants.  In fact, the largest recorded lynching in American history was of a bunch of Italians (supposedly involved in organized crime) in New Orleans in, IIRC, the first decade of the 20th century.
I'm not sure what time you are referring to with your "10% of the population" figure, but at the time that the U.S. entered WWII, Italian-Americans were the largest single immigrant group.  That's one reason that there was never any effort to round them up and put them in internment camps, as there was with Japanese-Americans.

About this:

Quote
The police brutalize everyone. Not just black people. Want to cut the amount of police brutality in half- get rid of unconstitutional stop and frisk laws, cut the police force drastically, legalize drugs and end the ridiculously stupid “war on drugs”, de-militarize the police and have them get rid of all their military grade weapons and equipment, get rid of ticket quotas and eliminate cops pulling people over for bullshit reasons just so they can write bullshit tickets, prosecute police for brutality and murder when deserved- stop shielding them with immunity basically- vet candidates way better- make it aloooooot more difficult to become an officer- and make all current officers take polygraph, iq, and personality tests and fire the ones who aren’t fit for the job.

Those are good ideas, but the Fraternal Order of Police would oppose a lot of them.  And the FOP is a government union that most urban politicians don't want to have in opposition.
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Riffraft

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2369 on: June 01, 2020, 11:32:02 AM »
Most people seem to think I am an ultra right wing conservative, but I don't label myself that or consider myself conservative though quite a bit of my political position fall into conservative ideas. 

So they are surprise how anti dealing with the police I am. I think Cincydawg has it right, it is probably not racism as much as it is an us vs them and they are all up to no good attitude. I have told my kids to be cooperative with the police commands, but do not talk to them. If the cops are wrong we can deal with this after the fact, but I want them to come home uninjured and at least not dead. The was a real white-bread community right next to my very racially mixed community. They were many DWB and DWY pull overs in this community. I warned my black son and my white sons when going through this community, obey every traffic law. They would still find reasons to pull them over. You would go to traffic court in this town of almost 90% white and by far the majority of those waiting for their case to be called were black and those that weren't were mostly young drivers.

I really think that in a lot of ways it is a power thing for most police officers. I learned a long time ago, do not trust that the police are on your side, but don't assume they are the enemy either. Cooperate with commands, but don't say a thing. The most I have talked with a police officer was when I was pulled over once for speeding and the officer asked if he could search my car. I asked did he have to have my permission to search my car and he responded he could call in a drug sniffing dog and get probable cause to search but I would be sitting there a long time while waiting on the dog. I told him, I would wait. He decided to let me go on my way. 

Riffraft

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2370 on: June 01, 2020, 11:38:27 AM »
Mdot is right about ending the war on Drugs. You would think we would have learned from alcohol prohibition that it does work and it creates a black market criminal market that leads to crime and violence. If you took the black market and money out of drug trafficing violence in so many of this city would decline because there is no advantage to corner an area for your drug trade and drug addicts won't need to resort to criminal activity to fund their addiction because prices would come down. 

Mdot21

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2371 on: June 01, 2020, 11:43:49 AM »
If you would just come out your shell and say what you really think lol.  😂😂😂😂😂

I hate millennials. We have an entire generation of spoiled entitled ridiculous mostly white idiots who think everyone has the right to never be offended and being “woke” is so cooool man. 

I mostly blame their stupid parents who never whooped their asses when they got out of line. These kids grew up blowing a fit in Target because they only got 1 toy instead of 3, so the parents caved in and got them the other toys just to make them shut up. They grew up yelling and cussing at their parents when they were teenagers because they didn’t get to do whatever they wanted when they wanted. 

When I was growing up there was zero of these compromises. There was no caving. If I blew a fit in a store as a child I was in deep shit. And if I ever swore or cussed at my parents I would’ve gotten a UFC style ass whopping by pops. And you know what, that’s how it should be. My pops was a tough son of a bitch, but he was always there for me and never once did I ever question if I was loved. He showed it all the time. Growing up you say man why is he so hard, but when you get older you learn to appreciate everything and you see he was so hard because of love. 

This world is a motherfucker. It’s dog eat dog and no one will ever just give you shit, you have to go out there and earn it. And you have to fail over and over again and pick yourself up and go at it again until you succeed.

These millennials had parents who always caved in and gave them everything, never had to earn shit. Had parents who treated them like they were their friends and not their fucking parents. These kids all grew up getting participation trophies for getting their asses kicked in sports, instead of getting told they sucked. 

As the great Denzel Washington says, “Ease is a greater threat to progress than hardship.”

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2372 on: June 01, 2020, 11:50:57 AM »
" have them get rid of all their military grade weapons"

I chuckled at this.  What would be a weapon that is not "military grade"?

A .22 bolt action rifle?  How about a .223 Ruger Mini-14?

Looks relatively harmless.


longhorn320

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2373 on: June 01, 2020, 11:53:40 AM »
so a father takes his two teenage boys into a coffee shop to eat lunch

the waitress comes over and asks one of the boys what he wanted to eat

the boy looks up at her and says I want a damn hamburger

with that the father reaches out and slaps the boy across the face

slightly shaken the waitress turns to the other boy and asks what he would like to eat

the boy looked at her and says well you can bet your ass I dont want a damn hamburger
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2374 on: June 01, 2020, 12:26:50 PM »
" have them get rid of all their military grade weapons"

I chuckled at this.  What would be a weapon that is not "military grade"?

A .22 bolt action rifle?  How about a .223 Ruger Mini-14?

Looks relatively harmless.


It's not about firearms.

There's a whole federal program to repurpose old military equipment for police. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1033_program

I mean, what police force REALLY needs an armored personnel carrier? 

Mdot21

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2375 on: June 01, 2020, 12:29:21 PM »
It's not about firearms.

There's a whole federal program to repurpose old military equipment for police.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1033_program

I mean, what police force REALLY needs an armored personnel carrier?
Yup.

longhorn320

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2376 on: June 01, 2020, 12:36:10 PM »
actually APCs are used in swat situations
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2377 on: June 01, 2020, 12:42:08 PM »
I think major city police forces do need APCs for obvious reasons.

I don't see having them as being a specific problem, whereas I see not having them as leading to problems.

The Nakatomi Plaza situation is an obvious case in point.

No one should ever forget that disaster.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2378 on: June 01, 2020, 01:02:04 PM »
actually APCs are used in swat situations
I think APCs are rolled out in SWAT situations. I don't think they're very commonly "used". 

Or more accurately, the question exists: in the absence of having an APC, could the SWAT team effectively neutralize a threat without great risk to their own personnel? 

I'd argue that in most cases they can. 

Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2379 on: June 01, 2020, 01:05:19 PM »
Does any of this justify the widespread looting, arson and physical violence being committed?
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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