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Topic: Misfits Thread

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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1652 on: April 24, 2020, 07:06:56 PM »
It's interesting to suppose what might have become of Hitler had he not invaded the USSR.  (That of course was his whole reason for being, so it's illogical in a way.)

With fairly modest effort, he could have reinforced the Afrika Korps to the point it would have driven the British out of the Med.  That would have opened up the oil fields for the taking.  He was getting raw materials from Stalin in significant quantities.  He had the Baltic locked up.  He probably could have starved GB to the point Churchill would have lost favor.  The Third Reich might be there today.
Well, Great Britain wasn't going to invade the continent and defeat Germany by itself, so if Hitler could have limited his enemies to Britain and the exile Poles, Czechs, and French, he would have been in a powerful position, albeit one with large, restive, dangerous, captive populations.  But I don't think we were going to let Britain starve once the Brits showed their mettle in the Battle of Britain.  We already had Lend-Lease going to the Brits (March 1941?) before Hitler invaded the USSR, and that eventually could have led us into conflict with Germany.  As it was, we were in a shooting war with Germany in the North Atlantic by October 1941.
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847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1653 on: April 24, 2020, 07:07:33 PM »
It's interesting to suppose what might have become of Hitler had he not invaded the USSR.  (That of course was his whole reason for being, so it's illogical in a way.)

With fairly modest effort, he could have reinforced the Afrika Korps to the point it would have driven the British out of the Med.  That would have opened up the oil fields for the taking.  He was getting raw materials from Stalin in significant quantities.  He had the Baltic locked up.  He probably could have starved GB to the point Churchill would have lost favor.  The Third Reich might be there today.
It is also interesting to ponder whether the US could have help win that war (with the UK) on its own, without the USSR involved on that front. I mean, a lot of resources were spent winning the war in the Pacific.

Would the US have used "the bomb" to beat Hitler, without USSR involved? I think probably not. But maybe??
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1654 on: April 24, 2020, 07:18:18 PM »
For the US/UK to face the entire Wehrmacht with an amphibious landing ...  ouch.

I doubt it was possible.

CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1655 on: April 24, 2020, 07:26:15 PM »
We wouldn't have been able to successfully land in Normandy in 1944 without the Soviet Union in the war.  But we eventually could have worn down Germany's air defenses, and, if necessary, used the atomic bomb on Germany.  That was the target in everyone's mind when the Manhattan Project was approved.

We probably would have had to devote fewer resources to the Pacific.  Had it be a true holding campaign rather than a counteroffensive starting in August 1942 in the Solomons.
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847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1656 on: April 24, 2020, 07:55:26 PM »
Devastation man. Holy shit.

Imagine if the US went to Tokyo with that bomb? Obviously, they thought about it and thought to not do it.
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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1657 on: April 24, 2020, 08:53:45 PM »
Tokyo had by then been pretty much wiped out by firebombing, Badge.  With more loss of life than Hiroshima suffered.
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utee94

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1658 on: April 24, 2020, 10:28:30 PM »
And what type of malty goodness is this?
So good, its made from rye, and actually lighter ABV than a standard lager though you'd not know from the flavor, so a bit sessionable.

https://liveoakbrewing.com/roggenbier/




847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1659 on: April 25, 2020, 10:13:33 AM »
Tokyo had by then been pretty much wiped out by firebombing, Badge.  With more loss of life than Hiroshima suffered.
But not leveled, right? Wouldn't many more have died had they dropped it there?
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MrNubbz

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1660 on: April 25, 2020, 10:25:14 AM »
 We already had Lend-Lease going to the Brits (March 1941?) before Hitler invaded the USSR,
And the Atlantic Charter before that(1939?).US Ships were sailing under British Flags.Probably broke some international law but it wasn't like the Reich wasn't getting jiggy with them already
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MrNubbz

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1661 on: April 25, 2020, 10:29:33 AM »
So good, its made from rye, and actually lighter ABV than a standard lager though you'd not know from the flavor, so a bit sessionable.

https://liveoakbrewing.com/roggenbier/
LOL - in other words having more than one - your foodie narratives are carrying over.Anyhoo that sounds like some fine suds
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1662 on: April 25, 2020, 10:51:27 AM »
But not leveled, right? Wouldn't many more have died had they dropped it there?
There wasn't much left after the fire bombing.  The US wanted a fairly intact city so they could assess how much damage was done.  This was a never before used weapon type and was detonated at about a mile in the air, so the test of the other weapon type at Trinity didn't provide that information.

The cities targeted had not yet been bombed significantly.  

847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1663 on: April 25, 2020, 11:02:57 AM »
Gotcha.

I need to learn more about what went down in the Pacific, obviously. I mean, I know about Pearl Harbor (who doesn't) and MacArthur's slow march through the islands to recapture the Philippines, but not much else. I guess I've concentrated too much on what went down in Europe.
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1664 on: April 25, 2020, 11:10:59 AM »
The US effort had two fronts, MacArthur's which relied on island hopping and up through New Guinea, which was a bit unimaginative really, and what Nimitz was doing in the central pacific, which was directed at Guam/Tinian/Saipan as bases for the B-29s.  The Phillipines could have been bypassed.  Peleliu should have been bypassed, it was irrelevant, and a very nasty fight that took 1st MarDiv out of the Iwo fight.  We wanted Iwo Jima as a landing field for damaged B29s.

Of course, hindsight and all that, the Japanese should have been more careful at Midway and should have launched a third attack at Pearl.


CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1665 on: April 25, 2020, 11:41:44 AM »
And the Atlantic Charter before that(1939?).US Ships were sailing under British Flags.Probably broke some international law but it wasn't like the Reich wasn't getting jiggy with them already
Atlantic Charter was August 1941, at the end of the FDR-Churchill meeting aboard the battleship HMS Prince of Wales (survivor of the Battle of the Denmark Straits vs. Bismarck) at Placentia Bay, Newfoundland.
I don't know about U.S. ships sailing under British flags.  But after we started with Lend-Lease shipments, we began using the U.S. Navy to escort them halfway across the Atlantic, at which point the Royal Navy picked them up and escorted them the rest of the way.  Certainly violated the international agreement (that had been violated so often by all parties during WWI) regarding the behavior of neutrals.  We hadn't declared war, but we weren't neutral by that point.
Epilogue: Prince of Wales, along with battle-cruiser HMS Repulse, would be sunk off the coast of Malaya almost exactly four months later on 10 Dec 1941.  They were the first two capital ships to be sunk totally by air attack.
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