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didn't know where to put this, so just figured this would work.
Apparently starting TE Erik All and starting Nickel/Slot Corner Mike Sainistril are both going to return to Michigan in 2023. All is their best TE and he missed all of 2022 after having a back surgery. Sainistril was in his first year ever playing DB after switching from WR and he was honestly freaking awesome. That is pretty big news having both of them back.
Starting EDGE Mike Morris, starting DT Mazi Smith, starting CB DJ Turner, starting WR Ronnie Bell, and starting LG Trevor Keegan are probably the only names they're waiting on. All those guys have 1-2 years left if they want them. Mike Morris just won B1G DL of the Year Award and Mel Kiper has him on his big board in the 1st rd. Mazi Smith is probably at worst a 2nd rd pick if he came out I would think. Both those guys have NFL bodies and ability the NFL will salivate over. Don't think DJ Turner or Ronnie Bell are going to be anything higher than 3rd to 5th rd draft picks at best- not sure coming back helps either ones draft stock that much so both might be gone. Trevor Keegan could stay or go- neither would surprise me.
Starting LT Ryan Hayes and #2 TE Luke Schoonmaker have both already declared their hand at the NFL- both could've gotten a COVID year and come back for one more but are moving on. RB Blake Corum is thought to be declaring for the NFL- which he 100000% should. RB's need to go pro soon as they can imo.
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Apparently your Erick All info was not correct because he’s bailing. Did so with a weird tweet.
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Apparently your Erick All info was not correct because he’s bailing. Did so with a weird tweet.
yeah just saw this. super weird situation....
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And he seemed to take a shot at Michigan on his way out. Don't know if it was directed at Harbaugh or the medical staff...but he said people aren't what they seem and he's learned that well at his time at Michigan. Really weird situation. He was a team captain.
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Cade is All's BFF- they are very close. I'd be on the lookout for Iowa. Just a real weird situation.
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Erick All's father FWIW.... complete guess here but maybe they are pissed how his back injury was handled?
(https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/967/489/11489967.png?width=600&fit=bounds)
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And he seemed to take a shot at Michigan on his way out. Don't know if it was directed at Harbaugh or the medical staff...but he said people aren't what they seem and he's learned that well at his time at Michigan. Really weird situation. He was a team captain.
pointing the finger at the very weird head ballcoach?
And Iowa loves a good TE
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pointing the finger at the very weird head ballcoach?
And Iowa loves a good TE
may more likely be the medical staff. Don't know the exact details but Michigan medical staff apparently suggested he not get a spinal surgery to help with a chronic back problem. He went to another doctor to get a 2nd opinion down in Florida somewhere, wound up having the spinal surgery with those doctors in Florida and sat out the entire 2022 season.
Rampant rumors and speculation are that Michigan medical staff wouldn't clear him to play again. So it could be he's pissed at the medical staff or Harbaugh. Don't know the whole deal, but it's obvious he and his family aren't happy with Michigan right now.
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perhaps the med staff is butt hurt over the surgery and how well it went and they're cock blockin him
F-ing egotistical doctors
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perhaps the med staff is butt hurt over the surgery and how well it went and they're cock blockin him
F-ing egotistical doctors
could be that or All family could be upset that Michigan didn't sign off the surgery and do it themselves.
spinal surgeries and back issues are no joke. maybe he should quit playing football. if it was a position like QB maybe I could see it- QB is most protected position in the sport....but when you're a TE and your bending down next to an o-linemen and blocking edge defenders and linebackers all game long and hitting defenders and taking hits from defenders all game long...might not be a good idea.
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Jeem/Michigan living rent free in BERT's head...
https://twitter.com/anthonytbroome/status/1599889547655274496?s=20&t=lN3S1_Fjj8QwqsXB3AWGcQ
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Michigan's medical staff is very conservative wrt player safety after the 2014 Shane Morris Minnesota game concussion BS.
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OL listed at 6'5, 310 lbs on ASU website. Reportedly just announced his decision to portal to Michigan.
https://twitter.com/SunDevilSource/status/1599803618349023244?s=20&t=XCZKrW6gTqeejyZLiCD3Uw
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there have been some rumblings and innuendo that Corum may announce his decision to return to Michigan in 2023. That would be huge news, obviously. Corum & Edwards together again would be insane.
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there have been some rumblings and innuendo that Corum may announce his decision to return to Michigan in 2023. That would be huge news, obviously. Corum & Edwards together again would be insane.
Can't see it unless his family is loaded or he can he get some NIL coin
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Can't see it unless his family is loaded or he can he get some NIL coin
he's been making pretty good NIL money. Corum is never going to be a 1st rd pick. He's too small and is not enough of an asset in the passing game imo. Could see him going 2nd rd maybe if he put up insane combine #'s, but he's probably more than likely a 3rd rd pick.
Have to think with his profile and star power at Michigan- he can make comparable 3rd rd money coming back for his SR year in terms of $$$$ per year.
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Rumors Andrel Anthony is going into the portal?
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Rumors Andrel Anthony is going into the portal?
been rumors about that for couple months. We’ll see. After what we’re seeing in the portal now with some teams having 20+ kids enter- nothing would shock me.
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been all over the Michigan boards...some insight into why TE Erick All is leaving...
(https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/788/495/11495788.jpeg)
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He probably just should have said that initially, rather than leaving a vague passive aggressive message that allowed for open baseless speculation
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He probably just should have said that initially, rather than leaving a vague passive aggressive message
innuendo is that Michigan medical wouldn't clear him to play after that surgery. he had some kind of back/spine surgery. he felt like Harbaugh betrayed him- should've went to bat for him to get cleared and Harbaugh told him I don't control the medical staff- they make their own decisions.
All and Cade McNamara both acting like giant little entitled douchers on their way out. hard to believe these guys were both team captains, holy sh*t. vastly different attitudes from those "captains" than Ronnie Bell who was a captain last year and injured his ACL game 1 and missed the entire year.
Their replacements are both superior players. JJ being VASTLY superior to Cade. JJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cade and it's not even remotely close. Loveland > All but that one is close.
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innuendo is that Michigan medical wouldn't clear him to play after that surgery. he had some kind of back/spine surgery. he felt like Harbaugh betrayed him- should've went to bat for him to get cleared and Harbaugh told him I don't control the medical staff- they make their own decisions.
All and Cade McNamara both acting like giant little entitled douchers on their way out. hard to believe these guys were both team captains, holy sh*t. vastly different attitudes from those "captains" than Ronnie Bell who was a captain last year and injured his ACL game 1 and missed the entire year.
Their replacements are both superior players. JJ being VASTLY superior to Cade. JJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cade and it's not even remotely close. Loveland > All but that one is close.
I'm wondering if the anger is because if Michigan didn't approve the surgery, they had to pay for it out of their own pocket? I'm not sure how any of that works.
MSU had a kid at the very start of the MD era who got diagnosed with cancer, and MSU was able to keep him on a medical scholarship, to pay for his treatment, and not count against their scholarship limit, but once he was cleared, he transferred to a D3 school, because then he counted again? Not sure if this is a similar situation? It certainly isn't as long term, and this was an offensive lineman who went from 280 to 220, and was clearly no longer a division one player no matter what he was, So even if Michigan offered to put him on medical scholarship, I'm guessing he could no longer return to play at Michigan? It just feels like in the social media era, you can't put out vague complaints, without people, assuming the worst
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I'm wondering if the anger is because if Michigan didn't approve the surgery, they had to pay for it out of their own pocket? I'm not sure how any of that works
good question. just a really odd situation. like a week or two ago All was posting things like he loves his team can't wait to run it back next year. then boom....week later he says he's transferring and throwing passive aggressive shots on his way out.
I wish him the best and it honestly kinda sucks to see him leave, he's a really good player. Erick All + Colston Loveland would've been as good or better a TE duo in 2023 outside of anyone not named Georgia.
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there have been rumors for weeks that Corum has been seriously thinking about coming back to Michigan for his senior year. RIP to the B1G if he comes back and teams up with a fully realized Donovan Edwards at RB. Michigan also just got a pair of freak shows on the OL in the portal in Myles Hinton and LaDarius Henderson.
https://twitter.com/chengelis/status/1604238586060017665?s=20&t=wt3l2whsPpZ2inRSlqqhSQ
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Blake Corum says he's 50-50 in terms of coming back. Wow. I won't let myself get excited but it might actually happen. Woah.
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1605311954192863232?s=20&t=p21UocjmMjOcoaQ25nefqg
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I thought it was a knee injury, not a brain injury
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I thought it was a knee injury, not a brain injury
yeah but he's one of those kids that really loves his team and loves the college life apparently. Sometimes the heart wins over the brain. A lot of times actually.
He's also going to be getting fat NIL deals if he comes back to Michigan. It's not the same as before when he's a broke ass college kids and cashing in makes sense. I'd guess he could easily get $1 mil NIL deals as a returning star his senior year. Michigan is a huge brand. And he's the biggest star of that brand right now by a wide margin.
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Btw if Blake returns - maybe coaches sell him on usage. Now that Donovan has broken out they'll split carries more evenly and not put so much wear and tear on the body?
We really didn't get to see them play together on the field at the same time this year. Line them both up in the shotgun on either side of JJ and then send Donovan in motion. Good luck trying to stop that B1G defenses. They could both be 1,000+ yard rushers a pop easily next year if they come back and god willing stay relatively healthy.
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Michigan's former DB coach Vance Bedford talks about Michigan's 2023 defensive class. Recruited/coached the great Charles Woodson. He gushes about CB Jyaire Hill and ATH Jason Hewlett. Thinks Hill could be a day one starter and Hewlett has star potential due to his athletic ability at his size. He also thinks DL commit Brooks Bahr will eventually flip to OL because of lack of athletic ability. Hill and Hewlett were also my favorite 'croots in this class. Hill is a FAST CB prospect with size and just a football player. Makes plays everywhere at QB/RB/KR/PR/WR/CB/S. Hewlett is very similar in that he plays everywhere for his high school team, and he's 6'4, 220 and FAST. Dude has serious burst and speed for a guy his size, think he's going to grow into a heck of an edge rusher. He looks athletic enough to play MLB but I think you want that quickness/burst rushing the passer imo.
He also thinks CB DJ Turner and Gemon Green should both return and try to improve their stock. Says he doesn't think Green is anything more than an UDFA and Turner probably 3rd or 4th rd pick- and that's if someone likes him. Says Green hasn't shown much and Turner hasn't show any ball skills.
Pretty much agree with Vance 100% on all this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQKn9YInzUw&t=431s
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also: in that video there's a great little story that explains how stupid these rankings are and how clueless recruiting "analysts" are...they are not former coaches. they are nerds. most of them don't know even really know football. some underwear stain over at 247Sports who is a "recruiting analyst" named Cooper Petanga was questioning Greg Mattison offering Aidan Hutchinson at the time Michigan offered him (which was in his frosh year of HS) and Mattison went off on him and told the guy he doesn't know wtf he's talking about.
Surprise surprise, one of the great recruiters and DL coaches in CFB over the last 30+ years was right and some sh*tstain "recruiting analyst" was way off. Lol.
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“insiders” at the M slappy boards continue to say and suggest that Blake Corum is leaning towards coming back for his SR year. His mind isn’t made up, but it’s leaning that way. Corum + Edwards in ‘23 would just be absolutely nuts.
JJ should only get better as well. One thing not discussed enough about him is the fact that he missed all of spring ball with a shoulder injury and missed all of summer 7on7s/workouts- huge for a young QBs development and building chemistry with his WRs.
When JJ was finally able to come back healthy for fall he was in a battle with Cade for the starting job and was splitting the 1 reps all fall. None of that should be the case this off-season. JJ will have the bowl practices getting all the #1 reps, spring ball, summer workouts, and fall camp getting all the #1 reps and building that chemistry with his WRs. I think JJ is gonna take a big jump next year. And if he has Corum + Edwards to hand that ball off too, man that’s a huge luxury for any QB.
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rumors/innuendo picking up steam from “insiders” on the M board that Corum is leaning towards returning for his senior year.
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The Harbaugh to the NFL rumor mill is up and running again. And there may be something to it.
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He's got it made in AA at least in the foreseeable future. In the LEAGUE that might not be but he doesn't have to spend every waking hour to recruit
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Why Denver though?
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the hippy lettuce?
the intense love of John Elway???
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Ha ya the Jazz Cabbage for medicinal purposes like Michael Phelps and his swimmers ear ;D
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He's got it made in AA at least in the foreseeable future. In the LEAGUE that might not be but he doesn't have to spend every waking hour to recruit
My guess is that as well- not sure Jeem really loves to recruit. Can't blame him. And he's not particularly good at it- cause: he's a fkn weirdo. His son Jay is an ace recruiter but the best recruiters he ever had were Greg Mattison and Chris Partridge and they have both been long gone. If one of those two coaches were after a kid, they landed that kid more times then not.
Jeem also is very competitive, his brother has a super bowl, he wants to win a super bowl. He's stated that fact many times before. He's also a prideful guy. He knows everyone wanted his ass fired after the disaster of 2020 and I'm sure he's still none too pleased with getting his salary cut in half.
Would make sense for him to walk away now. He's won the B1G two years in a row, he's beaten Ohio State two years in a row. He took a broken Michigan program that was floundering and turned it around in a huge way and would be leaving it in a much better place and if Michigan AD makes the right hire the foundation is there for more success going forward. Big key....IF they don't make a sh&t hire.
Personally I think if the rumors are true about Corum leaning to come back, Jeem should probably stay 1 more year. He'll be the odds on favorite to win 3 B1G titles in a row and if he does that- then he can leave knowing he did all he can at Michigan.
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Why Denver though?
He wants to whisper at Russ?
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He wants to whisper at Russ?
Lol. Jeem don't whisper. And that relationship would be amazingly awful and really funny to watch. Russ is a weirdo and Jeem is the king sh&t when it comes to weirdos.
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if Jeem leaves, who do they hire? Me personally, I'd like to see them hire a guy that won't be having NFL interviews/chatter/offers every fkn god damn year.
What's Urban Meyer doing? No one gonna hire him ever again in the NFL.
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https://twitter.com/Johnubacon/status/1610130536520990721?s=20&t=T7Rp5ZC3S01hJv7SepDvww
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https://twitter.com/Johnubacon/status/1610130536520990721?s=20&t=T7Rp5ZC3S01hJv7SepDvww
Well he's definitely worked well with the Portal. My guess recruiting and NIL
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if Jeem leaves, who do they hire? Me personally, I'd like to see them hire a guy that won't be having NFL interviews/chatter/offers every fkn god damn year.
What's Urban Meyer doing? No one gonna hire him ever again in the NFL.
Wasn't an issue with the previous two hires. RichRod was 9-2 at Jacksonville State this year, and Brady Hoke is 19-8 post-COVID at SDSU.
In all seriousness, I think Sherrone Moore absolutely deserves a look at being promoted. Chris Creighton has built EMU into a decent MAC program, which I thought was impossible, and better than hiring a flash in the pan MAC guy. It took him two years to get going, but over the past 6 non-COVID years, EMU has been 41-26, and only missed a bowl once. Prior to those 41 wins in 6 years, EMU had won 42 in the previous 16 years combined
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Wasn't an issue with the previous two hires. RichRod was 9-2 at Jacksonville State this year, and Brady Hoke is 19-8 post-COVID at SDSU.
In all seriousness, I think Sherrone Moore absolutely deserves a look at being promoted. Chris Creighton has built EMU into a decent MAC program, which I thought was impossible, and better than hiring a flash in the pan MAC guy. It took him two years to get going, but over the past 6 non-COVID years, EMU has been 41-26, and only missed a bowl once. Prior to those 41 wins in 6 years, EMU had won 42 in the previous 16 years combined
I think if you want Corum to return and you don't want to blow this thing up, Sherrone Moore would be a great choice. You could run it back in '23 with Moore & Corum returning and keeping the roster intact. Beyond that, not sure what Moore would be capable of and it's definitely a risk for '24 and beyond.
Even if Harbaugh stays, Michigan is going to eventually lose Moore to G5 or even lower level P5 program looking for a new head coach. Moore has been a hot name in head coaching circles and deservedly so.
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Michigan DL Julius Welschof and LB Duece Spurlock in the portal. Both were program players buried on the depth chart that probably never were going to play. Spurlock played some position and is in the same class as the Hasumann kid they brought in from Nebraska, so that one makes sense. Welschof was never going to play, been there for awhile, probably wanted to go somewhere that he could get on the field.
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my coaching big board if/when Harbaugh leaves...in no order...
Acceptable:
Detroit Lions OC Ben Johnson
Kentucky HC Mark Stoops
Kansas State HC Chris Klieman
Baylor HC Dave Aranda
Georgia OC Todd Monken
Oregon HC Dan Lanning
Michigan OC Sherrone Moore
Maybe:
Iowa DC Phil Parker
HARD HELL NO's...
Iowa State HC Matt Campbell
Minnesota HC PJ Fleck
Alabama OC Bill O'Brien
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How about the Iowa OC?
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no one on the Iowa staff has the head coaching experience to be trusted with a job like Michigan
except Capt Kirk - and he's far too old
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Tom Herman and Charlie Strong are both available.
Steve Sarkisian too, maybe, if Harbaugh strings out the Wolverines for another year or two.
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How about the Iowa OC?
oh god no.
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no one on the Iowa staff has the head coaching experience to be trusted with a job like Michigan
except Capt Kirk - and he's far too old
that's why I said maybe on Phil Parker. Give me an excellent defensive coach and you can win with that as long as he hires a good OC.
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if Parker had ANY ambition a Tall.. he wouldn't still be in Iowa City
Phil doesn't even think Parker would be a good head coach
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hardly sounds definitive...but Jeem made a statement on the official social media accounts of Michigan football...
https://twitter.com/UMichFootball/status/1611106003478802437?s=20&t=xpaETNl8UHO8JcNWtyaEiQ
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by the way....does Jeem = Bo? Can't win a bowl game to save his life. What's up with Jeem's teams ASS performances in bowl games? He's 1-6, and 0-fer-6 in his last 6 tries. If it was just a semi thing, sure that's one thing. But even in some favorable bowl matchups his teams have played like dirty bhole. It begs the question what in the actual f does he have this team do for that month they are off prepping for the bowl?
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so apparently this is one of things that Jeem is fed up with in regards to CFB and why he may want to go to the NFL....apparently Michigan is going to get a little slap on the wrist by the NCAA. Supposedly from two years ago and has to do with COVID and contacting recruits or some crap like that. Idk. Between this NIL crap, the portal, 24/7 year round recruiting, dealing with insane fan bases calling to fire you if you lose one game- dealing with a bunch of idiot boosters who all want to feel special and important and have access or downright try to meddle in your program, PLUS all the morons at the NCAA....I would straight up rather coach in the NFL. It's a way harder league with way better players and schemes and more parity and the salary cap and draft make it tougher to win and sustain winning- but at the same time it's an easier job- if that makes sense. All you have to do is coach your football team. No NCAA. No NIL crap, no portal, no freaking recruiting. Just coach football.
https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/1611122241621692418?s=20&t=Q5tc-FgpIyv2AQrBGrQxUQ
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I'd pull a Pete "the cheat" Carroll and jump to the NFL
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I'd pull a Pete "the cheat" Carroll and jump to the NFL
Can’t even front. If I was a top coach and the nfl wanted me, no way in hell I’d ever coach in college. F THAT.
College coaching has to suck. It’s such a pain in the ass grind because of recruiting. And now with NIL and the portal it’s 10x worse. And on top of that you have to deal with the god damn ncaa. F. THAT.
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Can’t even front. If I was a top coach and the nfl wanted me, no way in hell I’d ever coach in college. F THAT.
College coaching has to suck. It’s such a pain in the ass grind because of recruiting. And now with NIL and the portal it’s 10x worse. And on top of that you have to deal with the god damn ncaa. F. THAT.
I've said that forever, and NIL and the transfer portal has just made it worse. That's why I was surprised MSU gave Tucker all that money last year. Going from MSU to LSU made zero sense, unless you were a college football lifer, which nobody should be. If the irons hot, stick it out, and jump at that NFL job.
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https://twitter.com/JimMWeber/status/1611185587989381120?t=4fVPgi3tAwOVYjPNI_yb8A&s=19
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https://twitter.com/JimMWeber/status/1611185587989381120?t=4fVPgi3tAwOVYjPNI_yb8A&s=19
and Screech is the normal cousin in that family...
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also...Screech kinda looks like he plays QB for UGA....
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NCAA trying to fk with Harbaugh/Michigan over some ticky tack bullsh&t. Stretch-gate with RichRod all over again?
Stems from contact with two recruits during COVID in a dead period, having too many coaches at practice, and watching player workouts over video. EL. OH. EL. Apparently Harbaugh was not co-operative with them. My sincere hope is the Michigan President and AD tell the NCAA to fk right off and does not comply nor co-operate at all. FK the NCAA forever. That's about all I have to say about them. Most useless bullsh&t org probably ever.
link below.
https://theathletic.com/4063074/2023/01/05/michigan-jim-harbaugh-rules-violations-ncaa/?source=emp_shared_article
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https://twitter.com/RedditCFB/status/1611206927882616832?s=20&t=q3p9mlznxprLPvmOLZXz2A
https://twitter.com/TheRealSharty/status/1611212181302902784?s=20&t=gaTyLJZlEc5E15GrtUQoyQ
https://twitter.com/OdellBretthamJr/status/1611200371514384385?s=20&t=y0a5A6Lm8iXl9a-Kgj5Mog
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Good grief. Now that the NCAA has shot their wad I'm hoping the University of Michigan announces a much deserved massive raise for Coach Harbaugh.
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Looks like the cover-up (as usual) may be worst than the violation.
https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/1611210678068547586 (https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/1611210678068547586)
Potential Level 1 violation for failure to cooperate.
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Looks like the cover-up (as usual) may be worst than the violation.
https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/1611210678068547586 (https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/1611210678068547586)
Potential Level 1 violation for failure to cooperate.
failing to cooperate does not = cover-up. A cover-up would be kinda what Jim Tressel did a decade ago.
We don't know all the details yet. But if all Jeem did was not cooperate and basically tell the NCAA to fk off, then good for Jeem. I'd do the exact same thing.
Michigan typically in the past has kowtowed to the NCAA and shriveled up like little woman. My sincere hope is they tell the NCAA to royally go fk themselves without any respect.
NCAA is a joke. NCAA is dead. Michigan has a real shot to deal it a death blow here. Michigan does not need the NCAA. I really am tired of the NCAA, if I was the B1G and the SEC commish I'd be on the phone right now and talking about how we can kill the NCAA. If both leagues decided to leave, NCAA would die overnight. ALL the TV money is in football, and all that money is from those two leagues.
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failing to cooperate does not = cover-up. A cover-up would be kinda what Jim Tressel did a decade ago.
We don't know all the details yet. But if all Jeem did was not cooperate and basically tell the NCAA to fk off, then good for Jeem. I'd do the exact same thing.
Michigan typically in the past has kowtowed to the NCAA and shriveled up like little woman. My sincere hope is they tell the NCAA to royally go fk themselves without any respect.
NCAA is a joke. NCAA is dead. Michigan has a real shot to deal it a death blow here. Michigan does not need the NCAA. I really am tired of the NCAA, if I was the B1G and the SEC commish I'd be on the phone right now and talking about how we can kill the NCAA. If both leagues decided to leave, NCAA would die overnight. ALL the TV money is in football, and all that money is from those two leagues.
I don't disagree with the sentiment, but just to clarify, the NCAA doesn't get any television money from football. The conferences (and/or independent institutions like ND) negotiate all of those contracts directly with the broadcasting partners.
The NCAA does get a considerable amount of money from the NCAA basketball tournament-- like, about 90% of its annual budget.
https://www.ncaa.org/sports/2013/10/10/the-ncaa-budget-where-the-money-goes.aspx
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the NCAA regulates about 1,100 schools
if 50 schools left, the NCAA would get along just fine
those 50 schools aren't going anywhere
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Can’t even front. If I was a top coach and the nfl wanted me, no way in hell I’d ever coach in college. F THAT.
College coaching has to suck. It’s such a pain in the ass grind because of recruiting. And now with NIL and the portal it’s 10x worse. And on top of that you have to deal with the god damn ncaa. F. THAT.
Good Post IMO CFB is so much more exciting the young demographic,traditions,tailgates and what not. But ya recruiting is the turd in a punch bowl no doubt
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I don't disagree with the sentiment, but just to clarify, the NCAA doesn't get any television money from football.
As well they shouldn't they are like the Albino Unicorn/Bigfoot,rumor persist that they exist but do they really?
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Looks like the cover-up (as usual) may be worst than the violation.
https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/1611210678068547586 (https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/1611210678068547586)
Potential Level 1 violation for failure to cooperate.
Coach Harbaugh is rumored to have taken two recruits who stopped by unplanned to the Brown Jug for a burger. LOL.
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I don't disagree with the sentiment, but just to clarify, the NCAA doesn't get any television money from football. The conferences (and/or independent institutions like ND) negotiate all of those contracts directly with the broadcasting partners.
The NCAA does get a considerable amount of money from the NCAA basketball tournament-- like, about 90% of its annual budget.
https://www.ncaa.org/sports/2013/10/10/the-ncaa-budget-where-the-money-goes.aspx
I hear ya. I’m just saying…follow the money. Money = power.
ALL the money is in CFB and in the tv deals. And who are the king shits there? B1G and SEC.
P5 cfb does not need the NCAA. At all. IMO it’s time to break away. Time to rearrange all the p5 conferences for good into super conferences and get down to a set amount of teams and form a new thing once the 12 team playoff starts.
131 teams or whatever it is in FBS is a joke. Should be like 64 teams in a four 16-team mega conferences and there should be payment to players but everything done above board and every team pays the players a set base salary by position.
let’s do this thing. I can’t wait for the ncaa to die and then piss on its grave.
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hardly sounds definitive...but Jeem made a statement on the official social media accounts of Michigan football...
Reading that right as it was posted yesterday, why on earth release an official statement that's that indecisive? "...no one knows what the future holds, I expect that I will be enthusiastically coaching Michigan in 2023." Jeem qualifies for himself some shameless outs and allows this saga to carry on.
At least he's honest; can't say that about a hundred other coaches.
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Coach Harbaugh is rumored to have taken two recruits who stopped by unplanned to the Brown Jug for a burger. LOL.
just own it
not gonna lose a ship for that
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just own it
not gonna lose a ship for that
Yeah, that's the stupid part
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not as stoopid as eating boogers on TV, but..........
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WR Ronnie Bell declares for NFL draft. Not a shock to anyone, it was highly unlikely that he'd be coming back for a 6th year. I think he'll be a pretty solid #3 WR in the NFL, and probably a 4th-6th rd pick. Maybe. That's if he runs well at the combine.
Kinda sad state of affairs when that's your best WR. Michigan used to have absolute stud receivers in the '90s and early '00s like Desmond Howard, Derrick Alexander, Amani Toomer, David Terrell, Braylon Edwards, and Mario Manningham. You know, 1st-2nd rd DUDES. DPJ was suppose to be that, never got developed under Harbaugh and was part of an anemic passing attack.
Harbaugh has been lacking both elite QB and WRs since day one. JJ COULD get to that level, he's not there yet but super talented. Not sure wtf you have at WR next year. Andrel Anthony portaled out. Roman Wilson is pretty good but he's not much more than a really fast deep threat imo. Cornelius Johnson is just a guy- aside from that game of his life he played vs Ohio St. Amorion Walker or Darrius Clemons better be the real deal, cause man WR looking pretty meh in 2023.
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CB DJ Turner declares for the NFL draft. Part of me wishes he'd come back because he's experienced and started a lot of games. But then I remember he's been at Michigan for what seems like 10 years and he has no ball skills whatsoever and he still sucks at tracking the football/turning his head to play the ball and when he does get his hands on the ball he drops it. Oh and he also is just a pretty bad tackler for a CB. Don't give me size, Jourdan Lewis was much smaller and twice the tackler. Honestly I don't think he even gets drafted. He's not good at playing football. He's 6 ft and fast, but that's about it.
Here's to hoping Zeke Berry or Jyaire Hill get a crack at starting opposite Will Johnson next year.
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CFB reporter Brett McMurphy's way too early pre-season 2023 top 25...initial thoughts....Bama and Florida State are way too high.
https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/status/1611740062802235392?s=20&t=-hXQEvXW7JNKo1B2OeIYEQ
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been saying it since the Penn State game where he really flashed....Will Johnson is the best CB on Michigan's entire roster and he's an 18 year old true frosh. Kid reminds me of Marshon Lattimore or Stephon Gillmore but 6'3 not 6'1. He lead all Michigan CB's in interceptions with 3 and he only started maybe a third of the games. Will Johnson is also one of only three true freshman CBs to have 2 INTs in a game. The others? Leon Hall and Charles Woodson. And those guys were pretty damn good. Will Johnson = future high 1st rd pick.
Johnson more than held his own against beasts like Marvin Harrison Jr and Quentin Johnston- dudes that are 1st rd NFL WRs. Will Johnson vs TCU allowed only 1 catch for 4 yards. It was DJ Turner getting worked over, per usual. DJ Turner = 3*. Will Johnson = 5*, top 5 overall player (per Rivals). I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the rankings really prove themselves true at the CB position moreso than pretty much any other position. Johnson had the 8th highest coverage grade of every CB in CFB per PFF and the highest of any freshman, rs or true. Not to mention the kid is a great tackler and big hitter, which is rare for a corner.
True frosh CB Will Johnson and DT Mason Graham were both 1st team freshman All-Americans. Will was the best CB on Michigan's entire roster and Mason the 2nd best interior DL next to Mazi Smith. As true freshman. These dudes are both gonna be big-time in '23 and '24 and then off to the NFL.
I'm all for DJ Turner getting the hell out of here and Gemon Green too. Harbaugh is a stingy conservative fk that wants younger players to "earn" it and goes with inferior upperclassmen habitually. It's beyond frustrating. Will Johnson was their best CB since day one when he walked on campus and he should've started day one. Ditto JJ last year at QB. JJ would be sooooooo much better right now had he been starting last year and been given all the 1 reps in the off-season and season last year and this year.
My guess is that's why Andrel Anthony left. He knew he was better than the guys playing ahead of him and he was just like fk this, I'm out. Anthony has already been offered by basically every school and it won't surprise me if he winds up breaking out somewhere else.
https://twitter.com/DP_NFL/status/1600289687335489536?s=20&t=Of_dKmRUjNDkykxTuOn1CQ
https://twitter.com/JRodNFLDraft/status/1609300061443301376?s=20&t=Of_dKmRUjNDkykxTuOn1CQ
https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1599442153704415233?s=20&t=Of_dKmRUjNDkykxTuOn1CQ
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current USC Trojan CB and 2022 5* CB Domani Jackson (6'1, 190) liking a lot of Michigan stuff on the twitters and instagram right now. He's a life-long Michigan fan and Michigan finished runner up in his recruitment a year ago. He's also very close with Michigan star CB Will Johnson. Rumors on the USC circles is Jackson may hit the transfer portal soon. Colorado, Alabama, and Michigan are the teams to look out for there.
If Michigan gets Domani Jackson, wow. Losing Gemon Green and DJ Turner to NFL/graduation will have been a great thing. Makes room for him to get on the field sooner.
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Don't you dare spend $20 on that hamburger Jeem! But yeah, you can totally spend $280k in 48 hrs on a 5* QB's recruiting trip as long as it's in the allowed contact window! Man the NCAA sucks lol.
https://twitter.com/TJA4Michigan/status/1611540865205559297?s=20&t=-HUFafo2eSdNwxCnVsuqDw
NCAA moving to legalize one of the things it's accusing Michigan of doing....lol.
https://twitter.com/RossDellenger/status/1611488238400868353?s=20&t=QnBvj-3xbkFka3hLLU9ctA
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Don't you dare spend $20 on that hamburger Jeem! But yeah, you can totally spend $280k in 48 hrs on a 5* QB's recruiting trip as long as it's in the allowed contact window! Man the NCAA sucks lol.
(https://y.yarn.co/79354476-3f19-4a5d-acc1-35e1c11543b0_text.gif)
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WR Ronnie Bell declares for NFL draft. Not a shock to anyone, it was highly unlikely that he'd be coming back for a 6th year. I think he'll be a pretty solid #3 WR in the NFL, and probably a 4th-6th rd pick. Maybe.
If he puts up a good time, and is a viable punt return option, he's an absolute pick. Unless you are a size or athletic freak, that they think they can develop, you have to be a special teams option
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If he puts up a good time, and is a viable punt return option, he's an absolute pick. Unless you are a size or athletic freak, that they think they can develop, you have to be a special teams option
Yeah but even so I think he’s a 4th rd pick at best, maybe more like 5th or 6? He’s gonna have to run mid 4.5’s or better though.
Michigan has a couple young guys that are supposedly freakish- Amorion Walker and Darrius Clemons. Both 6’3+ with 4.4 speed. We’ll find out in ‘23 if they can play at all.
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https://twitter.com/jjones9/status/1612042092905111552?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1612042092905111552%7Ctwgr%5Ed4d6fa7440c3057f2a706c8c2b015ac552bf6a2e%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fmichiganstate.boards.net%2Fthread%2F122%2Ftofficial-all-umaa-thread%3Fpage%3D378
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Harbaugh to do a zoom interview with the Denver Broncos per report from CBS Sports. Days after he releases a statement on Michigan football's official social media accounts that he's going to be the coach in 2023.
Lol. Fk this guy. Seriously.
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https://twitter.com/jjones9/status/1612042092905111552?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1612042092905111552%7Ctwgr%5Ed4d6fa7440c3057f2a706c8c2b015ac552bf6a2e%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fmichiganstate.boards.net%2Fthread%2F122%2Ftofficial-all-umaa-thread%3Fpage%3D378
telling you, I don't think the NFL wants him as much as they used to. He's a stubborn nearly 60 year old weirdo that is difficult to deal with that isn't changing or evolving anything- he is who he is- take it or leave it- and his out-dated 1987 style passing offenses with out-dated route concepts won't work in the NFL today. He's not in his mid 40s. It's not 2010. It's 2023. That's a loooooooong time to be away from the NFL game- and it's changed a lot since even then. The game has passed Jeem by. He's a relic from the past. He can do what he does offensively in college where he can just out-talent and out-tough 90% of the teams he faces- but that ish won't fly in the NFL.
The dude is awesome at flipping a culture and getting you winning a lot...but he can't win the big game. Never won a Super Bowl. Never won a Natty. Never even won a CFP semis game. Dudes record is dirty ASSHOLE in bowl games and he was literally 0-fer vs his arch rival Ohio State until he broke through these last couple years.
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seems like the #1 guy on the Broncos wish list is Sean Payton.
So if Broncos hire Payton, Panthers have said they will look elsewhere, that leaves....Colts.
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father of Michigan player Alex Orji....have to imagine the players, parents, and recruits and recruits parents are not thrilled with Jeem right now. IF they don't sign Jeem to an ironclad extension with a big buyout and do so soon, his nfl bs is going to kill their '24 class like it killed their '23 class.
They're coming off two straight beatings of OSU, two straight B1G titles and two straight CFP appearances....they lead for '24 5* QB Jadyn Davis by all accounts. They were in great position to land a top 5ish class in '24. This might just kill that.
https://twitter.com/WillyOrji/status/1612116670461386753?s=20&t=HePg2uFkU3-PBOkrNtGddA
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can't imagine Sean Payton is impressed with the Donk's front office
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Jeem giving opponents ammo for negative recruiting claims,not a good look. JJ maybe on the cusp of a break out year, but WR prospects are like WTF. Jim better keep his eye toward the portal
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Michigan NIL group launching a campaign to keep Blake Corum, Zak Zinter, Trevor Keegan, and Cornelius Johnson for one more year.
https://twitter.com/valiantuofm/status/1612159239635468289?s=20&t=a0xzoKyv65QXVlbR1a1t1w
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there is a good chance all four of those guys return by the way. Which...makes it even more puzzling as to why Harbaugh would want to jump to the NFL right now. You get those 4 guys back plus what you're already returning plus what you've picked up in the portal plus what you've signed in '23.....Michigan is in a great spot to go for 3-in a row B1G titles and CFP semi appearances. And true frosh CB Jyaire Hill will wind up starting at some point in '23 and he'll be better than DJ Turner ever was imo- just like Will Johnson was this year as a true frosh. Plus there's still a shot you can get 5* CB Domani Jackson if he actually hits the portal. They picked up the C from Stanford to replace Oluwatimi. Losing Mike Morris will hurt, but they have really good depth at EDGE and Eyabi Okie and Braiden McGregor are both primed for breakout seasons in '23.
If they get all 4 of those previously mentioned players back, the only ? marks I see on that roster will be at WR and DT. They don't really throw the ball much but Ronnie Bell was their go to WR plus Andrel Anthony hit the portal. Gonna need a young guy to step up fast. And losing Mazi Smith is going to be tough to replace. He's really fn good. Mason Graham the true frosh pup is really good himself, but you'd obviously rather have Mazi back as well.
'23 OOC slate is a cakewalk. Again. Ohio State has to rebuild it's entire OL and break in a new QB, plus they have to come to your house. Jeem would be nuts to walk away. He'll have a great shot for a 3-peat in the B1G.
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RB Blake Corum going on Rich Eisen’s show today at 2pm to announce his plans for next year.
Seems odd to do that if you’re going to declare for the nfl draft. Rumors have been for weeks he was leaning heavily towards returning for his senior year.
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Why do you keep bringing Domani Jackson up? It's a pipedream IMO at least for a year,like the 5 * QB who decommitted from tOSU ,don't think he's coming back,at least not yet And when Jackson recommitted in Dec it was between Bama & USC - just sayin'
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Why do you keep bringing Domani Jackson up? It's a pipedream IMO at least for a year,like the 5 * QB who decommitted from tOSU ,don't think he's coming back,at least not yet And when Jackson recommitted in Dec it was between Bama & USC - just sayin'
strong rumors from USC insiders and mods on the $$$ USC boards that Domani Jackson is gonna hit the portal. Michigan will be a player if he does. Provided Harbaugh is still the coach...
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not surprising, Michigan TE Luke Schoonmaker declares for the NFL draft. He was a 5th year SR that could've gotten a 6th year if he wanted it, but will try his hand at the NFL.
So far by my count that is WR Ronnie Bell, TE Luke Schoonmaker, CB DJ Turner, and LT Ryan Hayes who have declared for the draft. All were 5th year guys. Coming back for a 6th year seemed unlikely and not necessary for any of them. Except for maybe DJ Turner. I don't see a scenario where he has an NFL career. The others are NFL caliber players. Maybe not starters or stars, but they have life in the NFL imo. DJ Turner however is awful. He's not an NFL player.
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Blake Corum just announces he's returning for his senior season. WOW!
BC + DE = LIGHTS OUT duo in 2023.
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Harbaugh would be crazy to bolt right now. They legit could win the B1G 3 in a row and go to the CFP playoff 3 in a row. When is the last time Michigan did that?
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Much better use of NIL than on 17 year olds that haven't proven anything
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Much better use of NIL than on 17 year olds that haven't proven anything
agree 1000000%.
Corum deserves every penny he gets from NIL. Why spend that on a snot nosed entitled 17 year old punk who thinks he's the sh&t when in reality he hasn't proven jacksh&t?
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the scary part...he's not even their best RB imo...and their best RB started the last 3 games of their season with a cast on his broken right hand. DE is only gonna be better in '23 with two hands and more experience. That's a LOADED RB room. Sheesh.
https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1612526498983936001?s=20&t=bPaSe4nPAq8QrPWCJBOvVA
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agree 1000000%.
Corum deserves every penny he gets from NIL. Why spend that on a snot nosed entitled 17 year old punk who thinks he's the sh&t when in reality he hasn't proven jacksh&t?
Even ignoring that, much better return on investment.
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If you think about pre season rankings ( a few are out already), doesn’t a quality, experience/ proven QB mean a ton?
Of the top teams I am seeing(Georgia, Alabama, Michigan, Ohio State, Clemson), only UM has the QB.
Can’t think of any reason they shouldn’t be #1.
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EDGE Mike Morris declares for the NFL Draft. Pretty sure everyone knew that was coming. Was hoping to get another year out of him, he was only a starter for 1 year- this year. Mel Kiper has him on his big board in the 1st rd. IF that vibes with what NFL circles are telling Mike Morris- then yeah, it makes a lot of sense to leave.
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EDGE Mike Morris declares for the NFL Draft. Pretty sure everyone knew that was coming. Was hoping to get another year out of him, he was only a starter for 1 year- this year. Mel Kiper has him on his big board in the 1st rd. IF that vibes with what NFL circles are telling Mike Morris- then yeah, it makes a lot of sense to leave.
To tell you the truth I would love to see the lions get both him and Mazi Smith.
that would make it really hard for teams to double team Hutchinson or put their stronger tackle on whatever side of the field he has on which the Packers did successfully in the second half yesterday.
Plus, after watching Jalen Carter against my buckeyes I can’t lie, I was not all that impressed. He gets gassed super easily and you can play away from him.
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so the NFL Draft declarations so far are....
EDGE Mike Morris
CB DJ Turner
WR Ronnie Bell
LT Ryan Hayes
TE Luke Schoonmaker
Mike Morris is the best college player of that group with most NFL upside and is the biggest loss, but EDGE might be Michigan's deepest position on defense. They've got some dudes there that will emerge in '23 and become NFL draft prospects. The three offensive players are really good college players, but you can replace them imo. They've loaded up on OL in the portal. Should be OK there. WR kinda concerns me with no more Bell plus Anthony leaving. Amorion Walker and Darrius Clemons will both have to prove it next year. And DJ Turner leaving might actually be a net positive if Jyaire Hill is as good as the "insiders" are saying he is after he flashed as an early enrollee in the bowl practices. DJ Turner is....not good imo.
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To tell you the truth I would love to see the lions get both him and Mazi Smith.
that would make it really hard for teams to double team Hutchinson or put their stronger tackle on whatever side of the field he has on which the Packers did successfully in the second half yesterday.
Plus, after watching Jalen Carter against my buckeyes I can’t lie, I was not all that impressed. He gets gassed super easily and you can play away from him.
I think Mazi would be a great fit. Not sure how much of a need Morris is with Houston coming on as a great situational pass rusher and with Hutch developing into an every down edge rusher.
I think they need DTs a lot more than they need edge guys right now. Their interior DL is weak sauce and they get dominated up front in the run game down the middle too much. Teams stuff it down their throats way too often. Need a pair of 300+ pound beefcakes in the middle plugging up the middle of the defense and need to get better at LB.
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so that One More Year NIL fund or whatever that was targeting getting LG Trevor Keegan, RG Zak Zinter, WR Cornelius Johnson, and RB Blake Corum back for one more year landed Corum. Rumor is that WR Cornelius Johnson has enrolled in a masters degree program at Michigan and will announce his intention to return soon.
Liking their chances to get all 4 of them back. They will have serious OL depth in '23 if Keegan and Zinter both return, especially with bringing OT Myles Hinton, T/G LaDarius Henderson, and C Drake Nugent in the portal. Crazy as it sounds- their OL might be just as good next year. Plus they'll have Corum & Edwards back.
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not surprising, DT Mazi Smith declares for NFL draft. Mike Morris & Mazi Smith were both expected to go pro. ESPN draft “guru” Mel Kiper has Morris going in the 1st rd and Smith going in the 2nd rd.
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https://twitter.com/BenScottStevens/status/1612535174369054721?s=20&t=zr0DASWIU8SCmmyUe3QTfw
https://twitter.com/BenScottStevens/status/1612531351676223489?s=20&t=zr0DASWIU8SCmmyUe3QTfw
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'Tism Jeem apparently interviewed via Zoom with the Denver Broncos for "over 2 hours" and is at the top of their candidate list.
Just days after he releases a statement on Michigan's official twitter, facebook, and instagram accounts that he's not going anywhere lol.
Fire the dude and hire Todd Monken or something. Sick of this guy.
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#HireToddMonken
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this guy is a very close personal friend of Harbaugh's and was instrumental in getting him to Michigan....could explain why Jeem might be fed up. The AD is not thrilled about sharing his donor $$$$$ with NIL and shot it down. Ward Manuel sucks ass. Worst. AD. Ever. Jeem is within his rights to demand Manuel be fired allowed to hand pick the new AD if you ask me.
https://twitter.com/TJA4Michigan/status/1613019068860366848?s=20&t=v-_6vDn42SoC-3IBBAa65A
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this guy is a very close personal friend of Harbaugh's and was instrumental in getting him to Michigan....could explain why Jeem might be fed up. The AD is not thrilled about sharing his donor $$$$$ with NIL and shot it down. Ward Manuel sucks ass. Worst. AD. Ever. Jeem is within his rights to demand Manuel be fired allowed to hand pick the new AD if you ask me.
https://twitter.com/TJA4Michigan/status/1613019068860366848?s=20&t=v-_6vDn42SoC-3IBBAa65A
I said that in the NIL thread. That it wasn't like this is all money found under a mattress. This is just donors diverting their money. And that would not make the schools happy
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I said that in the NIL thread. That it wasn't like this is all money found under a mattress. This is just donors diverting their money. And that would not make the schools happy
There's some truth to this. And it's not just a matter of the school AD's preference either, because many of the really big money donors like to see their names on buildings, and NIL donations aren't going to make that happen.
But an efficient NIL program can also unlock some new, untapped revenue sources. There are a handful of programs doing it quite well, and more will catch on over time.
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There's some truth to this. And it's not just a matter of the school AD's preference either, because many of the really big money donors like to see their names on buildings, and NIL donations aren't going to make that happen.
But an efficient NIL program can also unlock some new, untapped revenue sources. There are a handful of programs doing it quite well, and more will catch on over time.
The extremely big donors, yes. The large donors just want access to the program. And that's where the AD comes in. You donate x dollars to the school, you get access to dinners, practices, etc. If the AD says that the same amount of dollars if given to NIL, doesn't grant you that access, that's where the issue arises
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I said that in the NIL thread. That it wasn't like this is all money found under a mattress. This is just donors diverting their money. And that would not make the schools happy
AD/Presidents need to understand that FOOTBALL drives the entire athletic departments and accounts for all the money in their budgets....and the more you win in FOOTBALL the more money you're gonna make. This is true at every school. This is especially true at a major program like Michigan. NIL is the future, better to be ahead of the curve than behind it.
Seems to me that Harbs has gotten them to ease up their notoriously difficult transfer policy, maybe the full-tilt support from AD/school for NIL was the next thing he wanted and that's why he's been playing a game of chicken?
Sam Webb- probably the most plugged in Michigan "insider" says he's hearing a new contract for Harbaugh with huge pay raise and increase in staff salary pool will be announced by end of this week. Needs to happen fast and lock him in for at least next 3-4 years otherwise they run the risk of the '24 class tanking like the '23 class did.
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Michigan CB Gemon Green declares for the NFL draft rather than comeback for a 6th year. He basically lost his job to 5* true frosh Will Johnson, but with DJ Turner declaring he was for sure going to be penciled in as the starter opposite Johnson in '23.
Mistake for both Turner and Green to declare for the NFL draft. Neither are NFL players imo. MAYBE they get a shot as UDFAs to make a camp- but really don't see NFL future with either one. Turner MIGHT get drafted because he'll do well at the combine, but neither of them can actually play CB imo. Ball skills stink.
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Jeem/Mich has hired NCAA killer- attorney Tom Mars to represent him in that bullsh&t notice of allegations. Mars has never lost a case vs the NCAA yet I believe. Hopefully he continues the good fight and continues to clown the clowns at the NCAA.
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from the M boards....Domani Jackson throwing more vague references on the social media and twittering/instagraming some pro Michigan stuff.
I think there's a great shot he hits the portal. USC insiders were already hinting at this for the past month. Grinch being retained at USC is probably not a great thing for them in keeping Jackson around. And I think if he does hit the portal, Michigan will be his landing spot. Especially with DJ Turner & Gemon Green both declaring for the NFL draft.
Will Johnson & Domani Jackson opposite each other at CB plus Mike Sainistril in the nickel and Rod Moore at free safety would be an embarassment of riches. 3 of them young pups except for Mikey S.
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LG Trevor Keegan announces he's returning for his SR year. He's class of 2019 and redshirted, so he'll be RS SR.
That Michigan NIL collective that was putting together a program called "One More Year" to try and retain starters LG Trevor Keegan, RG Zak Zinter, RB Blake Corum, and WR Cornelius Johnson is now officially batting .500 so far with Corum & Keegan announcing their returns. Rumors are that Cornelius Johnson has enrolled in a masters program at Michigan and is going to announce his return as well. Just need Zinter on board now.
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Michigan EDGE Eyabi Okie has hit the portal. This makes it 5 teams in like 5 years or something like that. Kicked out Bama after a year, kicked out Houston after a year, went to UT Martin to redeem his career, went to Michigan to try to remake his career at the P5 level and now leaving Michigan. Apparently he was unhappy about the amount of snaps he got on defense at the end of the season. Mike Morris, Jaylen Harrell, Braiden McGregor, and true frosh Derrick Moore all got more snaps at EDGE this year than Okie, and 3 of those 4 are returning.
Rumors are that he may follow Biff Poggi (who coached him in HS) to Charlotte and also that Coach Prime is trying to get in on him. 5 schools....that's nuts.
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portal seems to really be working out for some kids
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from the M boards....Domani Jackson throwing more vague references on the social media and twittering/instagraming some pro Michigan stuff.
You keep repeating this mantra, like the girl who left you is coming back. Anything is possible but he recommitted to Riley/USC on Dec 18th and when he did it was between Bama & USC. Gonna be a LONG off season
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You keep repeating this mantra, like the girl who left you is coming back. Anything is possible but he recommitted to Riley/USC on Dec 18th and when he did it was between Bama & USC. Gonna be a LONG off season
It’s not me repeating any mantra. The staff over at 247 USC board has been saying there is real smoke that Jackson might hit the portal and leave USC. Retaining Alex Grinch might be the straw that breaks the camels back.
Remember- kid is became close with Will Johnson during their recruitments. They are still very close. Jackson just saw Will Johnson become a frosh All-American and ball out as a true freshman and get on NFL draft radar already- on a top ranked defense that won a CCG and made it to the playoff. Jackson couldn’t even get on the field on maybe the worst defense in CFB this year and lose to embarrassing fashion in the PAC CCG and watch his defense get ran through in the bowl game by freaking Tulane.
Odds are good Jackson hits the portal. In fact I’d say it’s more likely than not.
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John U Bacon, probably one of the most connected Michigan “insiders” says he now thinks Jeem is returning and that his confidence in that grows by the hour.
Sounds like new Michigan President got involved and basically told Warde Manuel to stfu and make the deal happen. Warde Manuel sucks.
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It’s not me repeating any mantra. The staff over at 247 USC board has been saying there is real smoke that Jackson might hit the portal and leave USC. Retaining Alex Grinch might be the straw that breaks the camels back.
Odds are good Jackson hits the portal. In fact I’d say it’s more likely than not.
Ya but it was the same 247 that said it was between USC/Bama in mid December. And wait'll he sees his 1st Song Girl
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or the 2nd & 3rd
they travel in gaggles
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I ain't looking in the hotties thread
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your loss
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Michigan RG Zak Zinter announces he's returning. Michigan was looking at losing potentially 4 starting OL's with LT Ryan Hayes and C Olu Oluwatimi both heading off to the NFL draft. Not so now, as both starting guards have announced their returns. They'll have 3 returning starters on the OL in LG Trevor Keegan, RG Zak Zinter, and RT Karsen Barnhart plus their 3rd OT Trente Jones and top backup guard Giovanni El-Hadi who just finished his promising RS Frosh campaign that saw him get a lot of snaps.
Michigan also brought in 3 veteran OLs from the portal. OT/G LaDarius Henderson, C Drake Nugent, and OT Myles Hinton. My guess is Nugent is the starter at C and Henderson, Hinton, and Trente Jones will battle it out for the LT spot.
Jeem has never had an OL that will have the kind of depth, experience, and talent basically ever. OL should only continue to be a strength in 2023, and obviously it helps Corum is coming back. Corum & Edwards should both go over 1,000 this season provided both stay healthy. Knock on wood.
Jeem would be crazy to leave imo. He's returning what should be the heavy favorites to win the B1G for a 3rd year in a row and go to the playoffs 3 years in a row. Why give that up now? IF you wanna leave, go after next year.
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WR Cornelius Johnson is returning for his 5th and final year.
ILB Mike Barrett is returning for his 6th and final year. Barrett was thrust into a starting role after starting ILB Nikhai Hill-Green missed all of 2022 with a hamstring injury. With NHG back healthy and the transfer from Nebraska plus true frosh Jimmy Rolder getting his feet wet in ‘22 and Junior Colson just coming into his own in ‘22, the 2023 ILB depth going to be the best it’s ever been since Jeem has been here.
DL Kris Jenkins also returning for his 5th and final year.
Jeem would be crazy to leave right now. 2023 the OOC is a cake walk and he’ll be the favorites to go 3 in a row in the B1G.
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Jeem coming back. Details of new deal yet to be announced. Looking like the new president at Michigan was driving force in keeping Jeem. AD Warde Manuel probably a dead man walking. PEACE Ward.
Per Detroit News...."substantive contract talks ongoing" Jeem getting a fat new deal...
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/2023/01/16/jim-harbaugh-to-return-as-michigan-head-football-coach/69812524007/
https://twitter.com/SantaJOno/status/1615104305022869526?s=20&t=nH9z6s8AwW6_tx7i_bHxkw
https://twitter.com/Johnubacon/status/1615113023022338048?s=20&t=471NTDBqEcUuqtv_c_4fWw
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1615123152664727552?s=20&t=HqHj0nQso2cCo9tiYhV8qA
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not sure how I feel about PFF, but they are real high on the transfer C Drake Nugent from Stanford that Michigan picked up in the portal
(https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/338/578/11578338.jpeg?width=600&fit=bounds)
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not sure how I feel about PFF, but they are real high on the transfer C Drake Nugent from Stanford that Michigan picked up in the portal
(https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/338/578/11578338.jpeg?width=600&fit=bounds)
Their college stuff is not great. Probably because it's based off of NFL teams abilities being in a much more narrow window
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https://www.pff.com/news/college-football-highest-graded-true-freshmen-2022-season
CB Will Johnson is PFF's highest-graded true freshmen defender and second highest graded true frosh player in all of CFB in 2022.
Johnson's 91.1 grade in man coverage was best in Power Five according to PFF, and his three interceptions in man coverage were tied for seventh among all cornerbacks in all of FBS, per PFF.
6'3 CB's with physicality, hips, fluidity in change of direction, and ball skills don't grow on trees. Future top 5 pick in '25 draft.
https://twitter.com/MichiganOnBTN/status/1599410227304050689?s=20&t=IwJS8I4UvWk5dR47kEYoog
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Jeem coming back. Details of new deal yet to be announced. Looking like the new president at Michigan was driving force in keeping Jeem. AD Warde Manuel probably a dead man walking. PEACE Ward.
Jeem "returning" to Michigan = bombed second offseason of interviews with an NFL team.
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...Between this NIL crap, the portal, 24/7 year round recruiting, dealing with insane fan bases calling to fire you if you lose one game- dealing with a bunch of idiot boosters who all want to feel special and important and have access or downright try to meddle in your program, PLUS all the morons at the NCAA....I would straight up rather coach in the NFL....
I mean.....you could single-handedly reduce this burden by about half if you truly believe it's an issue.
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Jeem "returning" to Michigan = bombed second offseason of interviews with an NFL team.
not really. Jim called Denver to inform them he's not interested in that job anymore. He was way high up on their board. Reportedly right there with Sean Payton. Panthers owner David Tepper is a star f**ker- no doubt he wanted a big name- who are the big names? Sean Payton and....Jim Harbaugh.
Sounds like this whole thing was a very cleverly orchestrated power play by Jeem to get rid of an AD that he doesn't like and to get a fat new contract- which he UNEQUIVOCALY EARNED - especially when in comparison you have guys in his own division who haven't won anything like Tucker and guys he has thoroughly dominated like Franklin- making more than him.
Jeem hates the Michigan AD. New President of the school just stepped in to chop the balls off said AD- and personally made the deal to bring Harbaugh back and went right around the AD. Translation: AD is going bye bye.
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Donovan Edwards wants to split the carries between him and Blake Corum down the middle next season. Also says out loud what everyone probably already knew- he's off to the NFL draft after his JR year...
Makes sense for RBs to go...and with his explosive play-making ability, size, and ability to catch the ball- kid has a great shot to be the rare 1st rd RB.
https://www.mlive.com/wolverines/2023/01/michigan-rb-donovan-edwards-updates-injury-wants-even-carries-next-season.html
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not really. Jim called Denver to inform them he's not interested in that job anymore. He was way high up on their board.
They didn't even give him an interview and The Condollezza Rice connection was smoke blowing. Kept calling David Tepper, both franchises stated Harbaugh contacted them. His time in the league has passed. Denver wasn't going to go after Jeem with Payton out there
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/jim-harbaugh-nfl-rumors-michigan-coach-talked-with-panthers-but-owner-david-tepper-didnt-initiate-call/
Carolina Panthers (https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/teams/CAR/carolina-panthers/) owner David Tepper did indeed have a phone conversation recently with Michigan head coach Jim Harbaugh. But the Panthers owner didn't initiate the call.
Sources tell CBS Sports that Harbaugh -- or his representation -- had been calling Tepper with some regularity in recent weeks. Tepper eventually held a conversation with Harbaugh, but it was never characterized as a job interview for the permanent head coaching job in Carolina.
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https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/35468783/michigan-matt-weiss-put-leave-amid-police-investigation
What’s up here MDOT?
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Non-stop entertainment out of Schembechler Hall in the off season! "Unauthorized computer access" could mean a lot. Access to University grades, admissions, health, or other private information. Coach Weiss doesn't strike me as someone who would be a computer hacking guru. I would guess he had help such as an acquaintance's logon credentials.
A report is that there was unauthorized access to someone's University email account. Maybe he was snooping on Coach Harbaugh to see if he was going to the NFL?
https://twitter.com/joshhenschke/status/1615559164323069953 (https://twitter.com/joshhenschke/status/1615559164323069953)
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Carolina Panthers (https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/teams/CAR/carolina-panthers/) owner David Tepper did indeed have a phone conversation recently with Michigan head coach Jim Harbaugh. But the Panthers owner didn't initiate the call.
Sources tell CBS Sports that Harbaugh -- or his representation -- had been calling Tepper with some regularity in recent weeks. Tepper eventually held a conversation with Harbaugh, but it was never characterized as a job interview for the permanent head coaching job in Carolina.
So Jeem didn't even get a real interview? I won't be surprised if he doesn't again after his bizarre showing during his interview with the Vikings last off season. To illustrate a point about team discipline, he brought one of those fraternity hazing paddles as a visual aid to the interview. And stated he planned to strap it to his belt as a good omen while coaching on the sideline. Can you imagine a shirtless, bling wearing Kirk Cousins and a paddle touting Jeem disappearing together into the medical tent?
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https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/35468783/michigan-matt-weiss-put-leave-amid-police-investigation
What’s up here MDOT?
no idea. strange story.
I was not a fan of Weiss at all, so hopefully this leads to a change. Michigan needs to get better at QB coach/"passing co-ordinator" - Weiss' area of alleged "expertise".
Jeem not one to fire one of his "guys" - well, decision probably made for him with this news. I see it only as a net positive if they can get someone legit to replace Weiss- who is mediocre as mediocre gets.
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So Jeem didn't even get a real interview? I won't be surprised if he doesn't again after his bizarre showing during his interview with the Vikings last off season. To illustrate a point about team discipline, he brought one of those fraternity hazing paddles as a visual aid to the interview. And stated he planned to strap it to his belt as a good omen while coaching on the sideline. Can you imagine a shirtless, bling wearing Kirk Cousins and a paddle touting Jeem disappearing together into the medical tent?
Jeem probably wouldn't mesh well with an established QB like Cousins. He'd have to go to a place where the QB has no clout or leverage and floundering (think, Alex Smith) or where he has a young guy he can mold how he wants (Kapernick).
Jeem and Russell Wilson in Denver would've been a disaster. But it would've been entertaining to watch.
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still starting to get the feeling that Jeem flirtation with NFL was a power play move to secure the bag and gain more control and push Warde Manuel out at AD and basically have the new President Ono hire a patsy at AD who basically works for Jeem and not the other way around.
It's not a secret that Jeem and AD Warde Manuel have had a strained relationship. Jeem is a prideful dude. Having his salary slashed in half probably still ruffles his feathers. Jeem has also been wanting more $$$ for assistant coach salary pool and more $$$ from donors for NIL funds.
He's probably about to get everything he wants. Prediction: Warde Manuel re-signs or takes another job somewhere else, a Jeem loyalist is appointed new AD, Jeem gets a fat new contract, assistant coach salary pool gets kicked up a notch, and they start to beef up the NIL programs with an AD who will be pro-active and supportive of donors giving money to NIL collectives.
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hamburgers and computers. what an off-season. can't make this ish up.
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Have we confirmed he wasn't hacking Jeem's GrubHub account to send a recruit a hamburger?
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Have we confirmed he wasn't hacking Jeem's GrubHub account to send a recruit a hamburger?
LMAO
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still starting to get the feeling that Jeem flirtation with NFL was a power play move to secure the bag and gain more control and push Warde Manuel out at AD and basically have the new President Ono hire a patsy at AD who basically works for Jeem and not the other way around.
Jeems been a flagrant yapping jackel at every stop stands to reason there is push back. If he had any brains he'd realize he was overpaid on the 1st years of that contract .He was getting Saban money and more than Urban early on. So the poor head wound had to settle for 4 million per,puhleeze.
I agree with your statements in the last month about be better if he left. He's done a good job working the portal,damn near outstanding but is that sustainable? How will recruiting be moving forward? if that can be ratcheted up then perhaps a good move.There should be a stiff penalty in this contract if he starts his flirtations again as that is a turn off to recruits
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hamburgers and computers. what an off-season. can't make this ish up.
What's going on with computers? Haven't been following
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Jeems been a flagrant yapping jackel at every stop stands to reason there is push back. If he had any brains he'd realize he was overpaid on the 1st years of that contract .He was getting Saban money and more than Urban early on. So the poor head wound had to settle for 4 million per,puhleeze. I agree with your statements of just a month ago about be better if he left. He's done a good job working the portal,damn near outstanding but is that sustainable. How will recruiting be moving forward? if that can be ratcheted up then perhaps a good move.There should be a stiff penalty in this contract if he starts his flirtations again as that is a turn off to recruits
they've got to announce a new deal with a substantial buyout and Jeem can't do this again next off-season or he has to leave because it will KILL recruiting.
His little shenanigans killed '23 recruiting. I think the final rankings their class was 17th. This is coming off back to back B1G titles and CFB Playoffs. He should've had a top 10 class...at worst.
It's already starting to hurt '24 recruiting. '24 5* QB Jadyn Davis who all the insiders said would commit to Michigan in January has now pushed his decision back and is taking trips to UNC (home state school) and Clemson. Jeem didn't do this little dog and pony flirtation show...that kid is probably already committed and is spearheading the recruitment of other top players to join him and a top 5ish class in '24. That's all in limbo right now.
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What's going on with computers? Haven't been following
HB linked the article. Michigan QB coach/"pass game co-ordinator" - Matt Weiss has been placed on leave and is under investigation for computer crimes.
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Damn did he have to go moonlighting?
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will be the best CB in the B1G this upcoming year...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5bPpqekiRQ
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Jim Harbaugh and his AD Warde Manuel have not spoken directly since May of '22.
This whole NFL flirtation ordeal was a power play to secure the bag and dump the AD imo. Pretty telling the new President of the university is the one who was the point main on negotiations for a new deal to get Jeem to stay. The new President probably wanted to hand pick his own AD at some point anyways- and well if the head football coach doesn't like the AD at a football blue blood powerhouse money making machine program like Michigan- the AD is probably going to have to go.
https://twitter.com/Johnubacon/status/1616458968209190913?s=20&t=AU2EdxjLBMghai64smDmOA
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FYI, Michigan's new President Santa Ono hired AD Mike Bohn at Cincinnati, who turned around and hired Luke Fickell. After Ono left Cincinnati Bohn went to USC and spearheaded the effort to bring Lincoln Riley to USC. Santa Ono is a huge pro-athletics guy who is all in on football. Wouldn't be surprised if Santa Ono puts a bullet in Warde Manuel and then tries to lure Mike Bohn to Ann Arbor.
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Michigan QB coach Matt Weiss fired. Jeem has an opportunity to nail this hire out of the park. Hope he takes his time and finds the right guy and not just another Harb family slappy like Weiss.
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Michigan QB coach Matt Weiss fired.
It took Michigan two days to address their equivalent "computer crimes" that our Supreme Court has no idea how to handle.
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apropos of nothing, I'm still bummed Michigan and LSU have never met on the field.
And I'm still pissed at USC for losing to UCLA in the last week of 2006 to knock us out of our first Rose Bowl appearance and matchup with Michigan. We even had a bona fide Michigan Man HC. It's never gonna set up like that again.
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apropos of nothing, I'm still bummed Michigan and LSU have never met on the field.
I wonder how many such duos exist among "major" programs. UGA had never played Oklahoma until the 2017 Rose Bowl thing.
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Michigan is pursuing CB Davison Igbinosun (6'2, 190) a transfer portal target from Ole Miss. Igbinosun was a freshman All-American this year per PFF and started in 10 games for Ole Miss as a true freshman and finished the season with 37 total tackles and five pass deflections. He's class of 2022, was ranked the #1 player in New Jersey, #17 corner in the nation, and #124 overall player in the nation in the '22 class per 247Composite.
Texas A&M, Tennessee, Rutgers (hometown school), and USC also in play. Former Michigan coach/recently fired Ole Miss DC Chris Partridge got Igbinosun to come to Ole Miss. Dude is an insane high level recruiter. Jeem needs to get Partridge's ass back in Ann Arbor.
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I idly wonder how most Michigan fans are feeling about the Program today.
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I idly wonder how most Michigan fans are feeling about the Program today.
probably feeling pretty good for '23, like they should be odds on favorites to run it back in the B1G and that they'll have the head coach for at least this upcoming year.
As far as '24 and beyond- not sure how to feel. Probably feeling like Jeem will just sh*t the bed in the playoff in '23....AGAIN...and that he'll be flirting with the NFL....AGAIN....heading into '24.
IF dude flirts with the NFL again next year- just fire his ass immediately. Guy has been killing all the momentum his program should have to spring board into the next level and he's been doing so basically single handidly.
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I idly wonder how most Michigan fans are feeling about the Program today.
I feel just fine.
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I know the transitive thing, ya ya, but how could UM beat OSU (who nearly beat UGA) on the road and then lose to TCU (who got slaughtered later)?
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I know the transitive thing, ya ya, but how could UM beat OSU (who nearly beat UGA) on the road and then lose to TCU (who got slaughtered later)?
not gonna lie...the loss to TCU was pathetic and still chaps my ass. Last year getting skull-fked by that UGA team was a different story- that team was loaded with like 7 guys on defense alone that are/will be 1st rounders.
Losing to a freaking TCU team that you'll have way more NFL draft picks than in the next 3 drafts....pathetic. Just more of the same. Piss poor coaching by Jeem in bowl games. Dude should maybe stop playing patty cakes with the NFL and learn how to coach his fkn team for a bowl game. L's in 6 in a row bowl games now for the Booger Eater.
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Blake Corum's car stolen. Lol.
Michigan has had the strangest off-season I think I've ever seen lol.
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I know the transitive thing, ya ya, but how could UM beat OSU (who nearly beat UGA) on the road and then lose to TCU (who got slaughtered later)?
Psyche.
OSU didn't play there game with TTUN and was made to look a fool.
OSU played their game, and had Georgia throwing in the towel (literally, check out UGA QB after Stroud rushed OSU into field goal range.)
A lot of it could have been because TTUN forced OSU hand in a way Georgia didn't, but I think OSU got in their own way (at least partially) in that loss.
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Psyche.
OSU didn't play there game with TTUN and was made to look a fool.
OSU played their game, and had Georgia throwing in the towel (literally, check out UGA QB after Stroud rushed OSU into field goal range.)
A lot of it could have been because TTUN forced OSU hand in a way Georgia didn't, but I think OSU got in their own way (at least partially) in that loss.
This.
Teams don't play the same each time out.
Was the game that Michigan played against Ohio State good enough to beat TCU? EASILY.
Was the game Ohio State played against Michigan good enough to push UGA to the brink? NOT A CHANCE.
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No wonder Mazi was packing, Ann Arbor has gone downhill
https://twitter.com/TheWolverineOn3/status/1617944083045187584?s=20&t=JSR7Ga4YFSawitWai3w3pg
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I still don't understand it, really. I know TCU might have been "just happy to be here", but 56-7?
They beat Michigan, somehow, a la App State I reckon.
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I still don't understand it, really. I know TCU might have been "just happy to be here", but 56-7?
They beat Michigan, somehow, a la App State I reckon.
I think of it like our tier system in basketball, but less tied to H/A.
I think if you tier the roster talent, and then the performance, you can explain most things. Ohio State's A game, beats Michigan's A game. But Michigan's A game beats Ohio State's B game. Michigan State's A game might need a D game from Ohio State to keep it close. Ohio State's B game can't beat Michigan's A game, but Ohio State's A game can hang with Georgia's B game.
I think we saw TCU's A- game against Michigan's C game in the semi, and I think we saw the reverse in the championship. I don't think TCU's A game can beat Georgia's A game, but when you see TCU's C game against Georgia's A game, well, 56-7.
It's my biggest issue with the CFP. Does the best team (almost) always win the national title now? Absolutely. But it makes it less interesting, because the talent disparity is too wide. In an era where a title contender might bring their D game to a rainy October afternoon in West Lafayette, or Starkville or Stillwater, against that schools A game, they might lose and fall out. The flukiness negated the talent disparity. Now when teams get a second shot in a CCG, and then just have to have a top 4 resume, and those final 3 games are where you are going to be locked in, eh. You get a true champion more often, but it makes for a les interesting chase
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Psyche.
OSU didn't play there game with TTUN and was made to look a fool.
I dunno if I buy that,tOSU had a year to prepare and were at home. Just like I don't buy the same about tOSU Georgia some fans say they didn't play their game.Bullshit they were at home and knew what was at stake. So same-same, go big or go home as they say. Sometimes you have to tip your cap to the team across the field
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No wonder Mazi was packing, Ann Arbor has gone downhill
https://twitter.com/TheWolverineOn3/status/1617944083045187584?s=20&t=JSR7Ga4YFSawitWai3w3pg
yeah just posted this. weirdest f'ng off-season I've ever seen.
Head coach embroiled in NFL coaching search....AGAIN. Head coach and program in hot water with NCAA for buying 'croots burgers and fries and watching practice video. QB's Coach fired for "computer access crimes". Now star player has his car stolen. LOL. WTF is going on?
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Also, they better have gotten an immediate paint job, or that eyesore is going to be pretty easy to spot
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It's my biggest issue with the CFP. Does the best team (almost) always win the national title now? Absolutely. But it makes it less interesting, because the talent disparity is too wide. In an era where a title contender might bring their D game to a rainy October afternoon in West Lafayette, or Starkville or Stillwater, against that schools A game, they might lose and fall out. The flukiness negated the talent disparity. Now when teams get a second shot in a CCG, and then just have to have a top 4 resume, and those final 3 games are where you are going to be locked in, eh. You get a true champion more often, but it makes for a les interesting chase
I didn't follow.....can you re-phrase this?
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Also, they better have gotten an immediate paint job, or that eyesore is going to be pretty easy to spot
looks like it's just a car wrap. could take that off with little bit of effort in no time. but yeah- it's ugly as sin. young guys gonna young guy. Blake says he had that car since he graduated HS- so 18-21 year olds gonna 18-21 year old.
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I still don't understand it, really. I know TCU might have been "just happy to be here", but 56-7?
They beat Michigan, somehow, a la App State I reckon.
ish happens. TCU could play that game vs Michigan 100 times and might win once. Just so happens they won the one time. Says more about Jeem's failure of getting his team ready to play and some of the god awful calls/coaching decisions he made during that game than anything imo. And Jeem has a track record of failing to get his team ready to play in big games and coming up short and failing- the last 2 years vs OSU notwithstanding. He's the ultimate ALMOST coach.
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I didn't follow.....can you re-phrase this?
The talent gap in college football among the very top teams and everyone else is WIDE. That used to be balanced by the fact that if one of those teams had their C game at the wrong time, they'd be done. You had 11 regular season games, and a bowl game. You lost 1, that might be it.
A less talented team could get to the top, by playing their A games in the games they had to play their A games. And the little bit of randomness might reward them
Now you have so many additional chances, the last 3 of which (CCG, CFP semi, CFP final) are so high stakes that it seems unlikely a team plays well below their capabilities, that all the CFP has done is removed the randomness of losing a road game at #17 NC State impacting anything.
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sounds like Chris Partridge may be making his way back to Michigan. Huge news for Jeem if true. Partridge was the best 'crooter that the booger eating weirdo ever hired. Would be a nice shot in the arm to M's 'crootin. So would Jeem signing a long term iron clad deal and stop flirting with the NFL every fkn off-season too though.
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Is there an obvious replacement for Booger on the current staff?
(https://i.imgur.com/ZQfw9X3.png)
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Is there an obvious replacement for Booger on the current staff?
(https://i.imgur.com/ZQfw9X3.png)
Probably not. I think Moore would be first in line, esp if Minter bounces back to the NFL.
Personally, I think if it were to happen, Ben Herbert should be the guy. Real strong background for success there.
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Ha!
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Sherrone Moore is the obvious on staff choice
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Would they stay in-house?
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Would they stay in-house?
I would assume no, but I think Moore is worth consideration. If he had a Michigan connection, I'd kind of prefer him to go take a mid-major head coaching job, and see how he does. But he's from Kansas, played for Oklahoma. No reason to assume he would naturally come back
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Is there an obvious replacement for Booger on the current staff?
(https://i.imgur.com/ZQfw9X3.png)
No. Moot point. Booger eater ain’t leaving any time soon. His flirtation with the NFL is a leverage/power play for a better contract and to push the AD he doesn’t like out imo. Once the ncaa dust settles he’s going to get a fat contract and a new AD.
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Chris Partridge back officially now.
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No. Moot point. Booger eater ain’t leaving any time soon. His flirtation with the NFL is a leverage/power play for a better contract and to push the AD he doesn’t like out imo. Once the ncaa dust settles he’s going to get a fat contract and a new AD.
I wonder if Booger wants to be the AD, ala Bo.
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Once your team gets on the cusp, as it were, but doesn't win "it", fans obviously will get antsy and ambitious. Going 10-3 won't get'er done now.
TCU fans must be feeling rather weird.
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The talent gap in college football among the very top teams and everyone else is WIDE. That used to be balanced by the fact that if one of those teams had their C game at the wrong time, they'd be done. You had 11 regular season games, and a bowl game. You lost 1, that might be it.
A less talented team could get to the top, by playing their A games in the games they had to play their A games. And the little bit of randomness might reward them
Now you have so many additional chances, the last 3 of which (CCG, CFP semi, CFP final) are so high stakes that it seems unlikely a team plays well below their capabilities, that all the CFP has done is removed the randomness of losing a road game at #17 NC State impacting anything.
This, exactly this.
The modern system has dramatically reduced the stakes of those ho-hum, week-in and week-out top-4 vs #17 type games.
Back in the pre-BCS era and to a somewhat lesser extent when tOSU had a potential NC team, every week was high-stakes because a random mid-season loss to MSU (see 1998) could completely derail a NC. Now even a loss to Michigan in a top-4 matchup can still leave my team with a chance (see 2022).
I always said that a big part of the "luck" involved in winning an NC in the old days was having your "off week" against a team bad enough that you could get away with it.
Example:
In 1968 Ohio State went 10-0 and won the NC but, surprisingly, they only beat Illinois by a TD and they had an even closer escape against Michigan State. Illinois and Michigan State finished 1-9 and 5-5 respectively. If Ohio State had played that poorly against SMU, PU, or M (finished 8-3, 8-2, and 8-2 respectively) they'd have lost and Penn State would have won the NC.
This past season Georgia had an off game against Mizzou and barely pulled out a win but it really didn't matter. If they had lost the only difference would have been that they'd have been the #2 seed (behind Michigan) but it wouldn't have even changed the match-ups because if Michigan and Georgia would have been 1/2, the Committee would have flipped 3/4 to avoid the tOSU/M rematch so instead of:
- #1 UGA vs #4 tOSU and
- #2 M vs #3 TCU
We instead would have seen:
- #2 UGA vs #3 tOSU and
- #1 M vs #4 TCU
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I caught part of a discussion by two Michigan fans about whether they would have given the Dawgs a better game (I think the answer is quite obvious barring some historic meltdown by UM). They were shaking their heads a lot about the loss to TCU. They agreed UM might lose to UGA by say 2 TDs, which I thought was pretty charitable of them, but "we" tend to be overly influenced by the last game. And they talked about matchups vis a vis OSU and whether OSU is geared to play SEC teams better than Big Ten teams, which I thought interesting, though I don't quite agree.
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the hype machine from both the coaches and the "insiders" on the early spring returns on the position switch of Amorion Walker from WR to CB has been off the charts. Harbaugh even went so far as to say he considers Walker the starter at CB opposite Will Johnson.
Will Johnson had an amazing true frosh season and is a young superstar CB and future high 1st rd pick. He's only going to be better this year. Mike Sainistril is about as good as it gets at nickel and was brand new to the position last year. He's only going to be better this year. Rod Moore is a really good free safety. If this Amorion Walker hype even approaches reality Michigan's secondary is going to be filthy in '23. Walker is 6'3+, 190ish and the fastest guy on the team, allegedly.
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the Buckeyes are doomed
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(https://i.imgur.com/v6bevRB.png)
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this is pretty neat and Michigan related...Rakim Jarrett, star Maryland WR, future NFL draft pick, and former OMERG 5 STAR 'croot says that Michigan true frosh CB Will Johnson was the best CB he faced all season in 2022.
https://twitter.com/MJoeBean/status/1631724109410312207?s=20
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LB Junior Colson and CB Will Johnson both have missed extended time in spring ball dealing with injuries. Both are said to be minor, won’t cause them to miss fall camp or the season.
Not great however for their continued development. Both were first time starters last year, Colson a true soph last year and Johnson a true frosh. Both could’ve used this spring to level up, and both have been very limited.
Colson was their best LB and Johnson their best CB in 2022. Colson was a 247composite top 100 player and Johnson a 247composite 5*. Sometimes them ‘crootin stars are accurate….
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spring game hot takes....
Michigan was missing a lot of key players who sat out, but they look pretty loaded and athletic on defense.
S/NB Zeke Berry, CB Ja'Den McBurrows, CB Jyaire Hill, CB Myles Pollard- all first or second year players- really flashed at moments and look like some real life 'ball players. One who didn't....Amorion Walker...who played WR as a true frosh last year but was switched to CB this spring. Harbaugh and staff and the other players were hyping Walker up...but he failed to show any signs of that hype. The other aforementioned DBs were far more impressive. The safeties are set with Rod Moore, Paige & Moten. Nickel is set with Mike Sainistril. CB1 is set with Will Johnson. CB 2 looking like it'll be a battle between McBurrows and Hill imo. Zeke Berry looks like the backup at nickel. If it was up to me- I'd roll with the true frosh Jyaire Hill. Early enrollee who just looked way better to me than any 18 year true frosh that should technically still be in HS has any business being.
TE's looked pretty, pretty, pretty good. Colston Loveland, AJ Barner, and Matthew Hibner all flashed. They have 3 guys who look like legit high quality TE's. Loveland by the way looks like he could become the best TE that Michigan has ever had. That dude looks legit....excited to see what he does in '23. He probably has the best NFL draft potential of any TE they've had since Jake Butt. Heard Jake Butt even say he thinks Loveland will be the best TE to ever play at Michigan when it's all said and done.
Alex Orji almost has to be your backup QB. No offense to Jack Tuttle or Davis Warren, but they both seem to really lack size and physical ability. Orji looks like a damn thoroughbred compared to them. He's just bigger, stronger, faster, has a more RPM in his arm strength than either guy. Not sure he's ready for prime time, but he looks the part of college QB...the other dudes...not so much.
DT Kenneth Grant, EDGE Josiah Stewart, EDGE Derrick Moore, and EDGE Keachaun Bennett all really popped and flashed in that spring game. Grant is a massive human being who has no businesses being as quick as he is. He was wreaking havoc and collapsing the pocket pretty much every snap he was in. Stewart's speed off the edge was eye opening and he was disrupting the QBs every snap he was in. What a steal in the transfer portal. Moore looks like he's taken another step from his true frosh year last year- can definitely see why dude played as a frosh and was a top 50 national 'croot and won MVP of that UnderArmour HS All-Star game- he's going to be big-time when he hits. Thing is- they are so deep at EDGE he might not even start. Bennett was a surprise breakout player on defense...did not expect him to make as big a jump as it looks like he has.
LBs looked pretty solid. The transfer Hausmann from Nebraska looked the best to my eye test. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say he starts at ILB next to Junior Colson. They are deep at the position, with 2021 starter Nikahi Hill Green finally back from injury, '22 starter Michael Barrett coming back for his 6th year. Just to my eye, Hausmann moves and hits at a different gear than Green or Barrett. He looks freakishly twitch and quick.
OL should be good. RBs should be good. Speaking of RBs, the early enrollee true frosh "lowly 3*" from Georgia- Benjamin Hall looked fantastic. I'd say he's put himself into position to be leader in the club house for RB3. CJ Stokes missed spring with injury and his true frosh year he went into the dog house with fumblitis issues. Mike Hart targeted Hall early on and pushed for his commitment- and was being lambasted on the internets for 'crootin only lowly 3*'s....same people who fail to remember Hart was a lowly 3* himself. Maybe...just maybe Mike Hart knows a thing or two about playing RB?
Only real glaring weakness I see on this team imo is QB depth and who the hell will be WR1? Would've been really nice to have Cade back as the backup- he's more suited for that role- despite his delusions of grandeur. No real clear cut #1 WR. Also...would've been amazing to have Mazi Smith back and pair him up with a Kenneth Grant who looks ready for prime time. Hey, can't have everything though...
This is the best, most talented team he's had on paper since Jeem has been in Ann Arbor imo. Schedule is favorable and once again the NON-CON is a joke. 11-0 heading into the final showdown in Ann Arbor vs the Buckeyes is possible if they can stay healthy and get a little bit of luck here and there...
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Michigan OC Sherone Moore and DC Jesse Minter both sign 3 year contract extensions with big pay raises. Michigan strength coach Ben Herbert signs a 5 year extension and becomes first Michigan strength coach ever to make $1+ mil a year.
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Ben Herbert has been huge for Michigan. Probably the best hire booger has made there.
I'd argue he was the biggest loss when Bert took the Arky job. With only a couple of exceptions, UW hasn't had the badass maulers like they did when Herbert was the strength coach. All of the linemen were badass when he was there.
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Michigan OC Sherone Moore and DC Jesse Minter both sign 3 year contract extensions with big pay raises. Michigan strength coach Ben Herbert signs a 5 year extension and becomes first Michigan strength coach ever to make $1+ mil a year.
Damn, think of all the chocolate milk you can buy with that!
Moore is certainly worth it. I think he is close to being in a spot where he's going to be a ble to skip ahead and take the P5 job of his choosing. I think more high end coordinators should do that. Narduzzi could have left a few years earlier, and gotten an AAC or MAC job. But he stuck around, continued to prove it, and landed at Pitt. The way coordinators are paid now, why not stick around, and skip over the mid-major or bottom tier P5 jobs? Hell, Dan Lanning went straight to Oregon. He's an Oklahoma alum. If Brent Venables continues on his current path, whose to say he isn't the freakin Oklahoma head coach in 2025?
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Damn, think of all the chocolate milk you can buy with that!
Moore is certainly worth it. I think he is close to being in a spot where he's going to be a ble to skip ahead and take the P5 job of his choosing. I think more high end coordinators should do that. Narduzzi could have left a few years earlier, and gotten an AAC or MAC job. But he stuck around, continued to prove it, and landed at Pitt. The way coordinators are paid now, why not stick around, and skip over the mid-major or bottom tier P5 jobs? Hell, Dan Lanning went straight to Oregon. He's an Oklahoma alum. If Brent Venables continues on his current path, whose to say he isn't the freakin Oklahoma head coach in 2025?
good point. Moore is also putting himself into position to take over when Harbaugh runs his course- like David Shaw did at Stanford. Moore is the next head coach if he's still here if Harbaugh leaves in 2-3 years imo.
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PFF lists Michigan CB Will Johnson as a top 10 pick in the upcoming 2023 NFL Draft if every college player was eligible regardless of class...been saying since last season when he was an 18 year old true freshman that physically he just looks like an NFL CB already....he's going to dominate this year. Mikey Sainistril at nickel and Will at CB1 and Rod Moore at FS is going to be a filthy little trio in that defensive backfield. Have to find a CB2 emerge.
https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1628071298050973697?s=20
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So he should probably sit the season out
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So he should probably sit the season out
he’s only going into his true soph year. if he were to have a dominant soph season- man have to say I would hate for him to sit out- but would never hold it against someone.
Like look at Marv at OSU. Dude is a top 5 draft pick whether he plays his jr year or not.
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Michigan's OL might actually be better in 2023...
They'll have 4 of their top 6 OL's back. LG Trevor Keegan, RG Zak Zinter, T/G Karsen Barnhart, and RT Trente Jones. Jones was the starting RT until he got hurt and Karsen Barnhart started a majority of the games in his place. Then they added three veteran OLs in the transfer portal in LaDarius Henderson, Drake Nugent, and Myles Hinton. Henderson was rated a 4* and the #2 rated interior OL in the 247 Transfer Portal rankings and is a talented vet with 29 games of starting experience under his belt, Nugent was PFF's fifth highest graded center in 2022 with an 80.5 grade- PFF rated him as the #6 returning interior OL for the 2023 season, and Myles Hinton who is a former 5* 'croot and a mountain of a human being at 6'7, 315+ lbs.
Then they have returning in their two deep RS Soph's Giovanni El-Hadi (4*, top 100) and Raheem Anderson (4*, top 200) who made waves in spring/fall last year as rs frosh and in spring this year. Then they have RS Frosh OT Andrew Gentry (4*, top 100) and true frosh G/C Amir Herring (4*, top 300) who has already made noise in spring and is said to be a starter in waiting.
They'll have more talent and depth along the OL than they've had at any time in the Harbaugh era. Ryan Hayes can be replaced, he was a solid player at LT but nothing unique or special. Olu Oluwatimi will be a big loss at center, and he was a special player- but Drake Nugent is no slouch as a fill-in and they have a lot of experience, talent, and depth returning.
Will there be a better OL group in the nation in '23 returning? I don't know. Will there be a better 1-2 punch at RB in the nation in '23 returning than Corum & Edwards? I tend to think not. Corum is a special back and Edwards is even more special imo.
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The last decade of Carr, UM had an argument of being WR U. Even though they've had some recruits there, I'd argue that in the post-Carr era, it's been the worst position group. They almost certainly have the best OL and RBs on paper. The QB is top 10. If they could have lucked into a Jameson Williams to Alabama type transfer, yikes
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The last decade of Carr, UM had an argument of being WR U. Even though they've had some recruits there, I'd argue that in the post-Carr era, it's been the worst position group. They almost certainly have the best OL and RBs on paper. The QB is top 10. If they could have lucked into a Jameson Williams to Alabama type transfer, yikes
WR's have been very average once Carr left. From like 1999-2007, Carr went on a run where he just always had some studs at WR. Guys like David Terrell, Marquise Walker, Braylon Edwards, Jason Avant, Steve Breaston, and Mario Manningham. Avant and Breaston were probably the worst WRs of that era, and both would probably have been the best WR of this entire post Carr era.
If this team had a Mario Manningham at WR they'd be pretty lethal. If they had a Braylon Edwards or David Terrell at WR....forget about it. They have continually lacked that elite WR, meanwhile their arch rival Ohio State has like 3 of them every season. Go figure lol.
Jeem needs to breakthrough and find that next Braylon Edwards type #1 WR who is an obvious high NFL draft pick.
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Reece Davis says he'd put Michigan #1 on his ballot on his ESPN podcast with Pete Thamel.
Says he thinks JJ is going to improve, Will Johnson is the best CB in 'Merica, the stud RB's are back, and they are solid on both lines of scrimmage with some nice adds in the transfer portal.
https://twitter.com/ReceDavis/status/1649145257370480643?s=20
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It's a thing folks talk about to fill air time in the off season of course. The top teams are usually well known, the order in which they will finish is usually not.
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If this team had a Mario Manningham at WR they'd be pretty lethal. If they had a Braylon Edwards or David Terrell at WR....forget about it. They have continually lacked that elite WR, meanwhile their arch rival Ohio State has like 3 of them every season. Go figure lol.
This is not, IMHO, altogether coincidental.
Mario was born in Warren, OHIO and played HS football at Warren G Harding HS in Warren, OHIO.
Terrell was from Richmond, VA and Edwards was from Detroit.
In today's environment, what are the chances that Manningham would go to Michigan?
If those three guys had been HS seniors in 2020, would Michigan have gotten any of them?
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Reece Davis says he'd put Michigan #1 on his ballot on his ESPN podcast with Pete Thamel.
Says he thinks JJ is going to improve, Will Johnson is the best CB in 'Merica, the stud RB's are back, and they are solid on both lines of scrimmage with some nice adds in the transfer portal.
https://twitter.com/ReceDavis/status/1649145257370480643?s=20
I am a big believer and having an experienced quarterback. If you look at the teams that appear to be getting the preseason hype, that would be USC and Michigan. Given their defense both historically and what they return from last season, I would most certainly pick them as my number one preseason favorite.
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my #1 would be Georgia just bc to me they’ve earned it til proven otherwise. Plus their schedule is eassssssy like Michigan’s.
I’d put Michigan #2 maybe. They have a ton coming back and if JJ can make that 2nd year leap they’re offense is going to be reaaaally good. The defense has a lot of young second year talent just waiting to burst out like CB Will Johnson, EDGE Derrick Moore, and NT Kenneth Grant and they added really good pieces in the LB corps in the portal in Haussmann and Stewart.
Bama may be in some trouble this year. They’ll still be really good but not what they’ve been imo. Milroe kinda sucks at throwing the football and their WRs are just a bunch of guys- not the studs they’ve rolled off the assembly line for years. Their OL also is not quite what it used to be.
USC is interesting to me. They’ll have an amazing offense but they probably are going to just absolutely suck on defense….again.
Ohio State is going to be a top 5 team imo, even with the losses at QB and OL, they’ll figure it out and their skill talent at WR is best in America by far and their RBs are elite level as well as long as Henderson returns to form healthy. The defense will be very good as well and they got a big time pick up in the portal at CB from Ole Miss.
I think my top 5 right now would be…
1) Georgia
2) Michigan
3-4 are interchangeable - LSU or OSU
5) USC - their offense gonna be amazing but that D is sooooooo questionable
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I think my top 5 right now would be…
1) Michigan
2) LSU
3) OSU
4) Georgia - defense, but new QB
5) USC - their offense gonna be amazing but that D is weak
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This is not, IMHO, altogether coincidental.
Mario was born in Warren, OHIO and played HS football at Warren G Harding HS in Warren, OHIO.
Terrell was from Richmond, VA and Edwards was from Detroit.
In today's environment, what are the chances that Manningham would go to Michigan?
If those three guys had been HS seniors in 2020, would Michigan have gotten any of them?
yeah, good point. Michigan was probably more well known for passing the football back then than Ohio State was. Players tend to go to schools that play schemes/styles that fit them. Ohio State is known for passing the ball now, so of course WRs are going to flock there naturally. Michigan? Eh...not so much.
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Michigan just landed a kicker in the portal from Louisville, James Turner. Probably the biggest glaring need/? on the entire roster after losing Jake Moody- who was arguably the best kicker to ever play at Michigan.
Turner was 3rd team All-ACC last season and went 20 for 22 on FG's, and 3 of 5 on attempts 45 or longer.
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this is one of the things that I believe Jeem was fighting with his AD over....more NIL support. Seems like Jeem is getting what he wants more and more and probably bc of those NFL threats...
https://twitter.com/Balas_Wolverine/status/1657107597483229186?s=20
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this is one of the things that I believe Jeem was fighting with his AD over....more NIL support. Seems like Jeem is getting what he wants more and more and probably bc of those NFL threats...
https://twitter.com/Balas_Wolverine/status/1657107597483229186?s=20
And because Hunter Dickinson essentially put their NIL program on blast, and said that was a major factor in him leaving.
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Jeem thanks the hoops program
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And because Hunter Dickinson essentially put their NIL program on blast, and said that was a major factor in him leaving.
very much doubt that had much to do with this.
Michigan is and always be a football school. A juggernaut at that when it comes to printing money from that football program. Basketball is an after thought in Ann Arbor. Always has been, always will be.
Hunter Dickinson is the supposed “star” player of that hoops program. Do you really think any of the star players for their football program are lacking NIL deals? Blake Corum and JJ McCarthy are making ridiculous money right now for college kids with their NIL deals. Hell the NIL programs are what kept a bunch of their starters from coming back when they could’ve went to the NFL.
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Jeem thanks the hoops program
Nope. See post above.
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that's a break for Michigan imo. Noon kick off @Happy Valley is an entirely different animal than a night game white out.
https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/status/1661854584329863168?s=20
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https://twitter.com/QuarterbackPlug/status/1661927478162604033?s=20
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Michigan's season opener against ECU is at Noon on Sept. 2nd and will be exclusively broadcast on NBC's Peacock Network. So, I guess that means I'll need to sign up for yet another streaming service. It's $4.99 per month and you can cancel at any time. Just hoping they only carry one Michigan game so the rest of the Big Ten's fans have the opportunity to enjoy the wonders of the Peacock Network. I believe NBC's contract gives them 8 Big Ten games per year.
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Alex Orji has a huge arm but being "chiseled" isn't a requirement for Big Ten QB playing time. Being able to consistently complete passes is.
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Alex Orji has a huge arm but being "chiseled" isn't a requirement for Big Ten QB playing time.
no doubt. Orji looks like a freaking specimen though, like he could be an OLB/EDGE Rush LB. Hoping JJ stays for his senior year in '24 but if he doesn't, think Orji vs. Jadyn Davis will be the QB battle and that one of them will wind up being the QB in '24.
Having said all that, Jeem needs to sell his soul if he has to and land Bryce Underwood in '25.
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Michigan star CB Will Johnson had off-season knee surgery, says it's a knee scope/clean out, and that he'll be ready for the season but not sure how much he'll play in the first couple games. Luckily Michigan plays nothing but tomato cans the first 4 weeks of the season...
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Michigan unveils it's B1G championship rings...is this season a failure if they don't have a ring ceremony next year with 3 B1G trophies on it? I tend to think so.
Their OOC schedule is a cake walk, the @Penn State game is a noon kickoff, they get Ohio State at home, and they return so much of their team from last year and JJ will be going into his 2nd year as a starter and should see a growth/development spurt and become a better QB than he was a year ago. Hate to put those kind of expectations on a team, but to me it's basically all or nothing for them. Anything short is a failure imo.
https://twitter.com/UMichFootball/status/1665036545714159623?s=20
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Alex Orji has a huge arm but being "chiseled" isn't a requirement for Big Ten QB playing time. Being able to consistently complete passes is.
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/350935499_643596453944367_2012564038248377631_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=A02qaFyU_foAX-TxoUA&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAl2VevlHsuTwJC8hpBTiM5z4zhp6Wh9oqe0XMOeJ21ZA&oe=64820FF5)
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Michigan's season opener against ECU is at Noon on Sept. 2nd and will be exclusively broadcast on NBC's Peacock Network. So, I guess that means I'll need to sign up for yet another streaming service. It's $4.99 per month and you can cancel at any time.
In this situation, I just walk to a sports bar that has it on, drink a beer or two, maybe have wings (or not).
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In this situation, I just walk to a sports bar that has it on, drink a beer or two, maybe have wings (or not).
I figure the cost of that first drink is likely more than the $4.99 Peacock fee for the month.
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Yeah, I did it once last year, spent maybe $20. I don't like signing up for stuff these days.
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refuse to sign up for peacock. never gonna watch it, ever.
Michigan should beat ECU by 40+ points. It’ll be a snoozefest. Not gonna pay to watch that. And if by some miracle they lose- well I’d feel like even more of a jackass for paying money to watch that horseshit on a dogshit streaming service.
:)
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I figure the cost of that first drink is likely more than the $4.99 Peacock fee for the month.
I have a budget for drinks
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Rose Bowl sightings notwithstanding.
https://twitter.com/abcnews/status/1666294020404912130
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Donovan Edwards played most of last season with a partially torn patellar tendon in his knee and the back half of last season with a broken right hand. He's right handed.
Kid is a freak of nature. Just imagine how good he'll be with a healthy knee and a not broken right hand...
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/37832729/michigan-donovan-edwards-played-most-last-season-injured
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According to college football insider Bruce Feldman, Jim Harbaugh’s program has added a “Beat Georgia” portion to practices to focus on the top dogs in the country. It is supposedly similar to the “Beat Ohio” segment installed in years past.
“You have to get through the SEC to win the national title right? Their archrival — who they whipped at their own place — was like this close to winning that game and knocking the Bulldogs out of the mix,” said Feldman on the Move the Sticks Podcast with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks. “I think this Michigan team is more talented than the one they just had. I think it’s considerably more talented. I like their chances. One thing I heard a couple of years ago, one of the things that helped flip the switch at Michigan is they started to embrace the going after Ohio State year-round and they installed this ‘Beat Ohio’ period to practices… All of a sudden, now, I heard they have a ‘Beat Georgia’ period too.”
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M is gonna be really good this year.
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M is gonna be really good this year.
I think so. I see them in the CFP. Their schedule sure helps too.
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UGA might need an "Ohio hour" or something.
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UGA might need an "Ohio hour" or something.
Nope. UGA beat them fair and square, in a very good and entertaining game.
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UGA "won", but the outcome was in doubt. OSU was/is very good obviously. Penn State might get interesting.
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Coach Harbaugh has Uga on his mind.
https://wolverineswire.usatoday.com/2023/06/27/michigan-football-adding-a-beat-georgia-period-in-practice/ (https://wolverineswire.usatoday.com/2023/06/27/michigan-football-adding-a-beat-georgia-period-in-practice/)
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If I had to bet, I'd bet on Bama making it, I know they have QB questions. I think past history influences me overly.
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Bama was, a few seasons back, built on defense and running game that could afford a less than stellar QB.
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Yeah, and now four starting NFL QBs hail from Bama, they've had some really good ones. I don't know if they do today of course. I don't know if their defense is stellar either. Saban created the model of course.
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yup, a run of NFL QBs can and should cause the O-coordinator to shift the scheme
I'd guess the defense is stellar by most metrics, just not by comparison to Georgia or maybe the top 3 nationally
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Jeem shoulda did a "Beat TCU" period first....
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PFF asking if Michigan has the best secondary in college football...my take...no but possibly could be. Will Johnson is a legit #1 stud shut down CB that is going to be a future NFL top 10 draft choice- and was only a true frosh last year. He'll only be better this year. Mike Sainistril was about as good as it gets at the nickel and it was his first year ever playing defense. He's got a legit future as a reasonably high NFL draft pick. He'll only be better this year. Rod Moore was a break out player as a true sophomore at free safety and he's legit going to be a 1st or 2nd round pick if he keeps up the trajectory he's on. Makari Paige broke out last year as well and he's pretty damn good. Josh Wallace the portal guy they took at CB is pretty meh- he's the weak spot of that secondary group and imo the thing really holding them back from contending for that type of "#1 secondary in the nation" billing.
Will J, Mikey S, and Rod Moore about as good as it gets at their respective positions however.
https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1681372513434226688?s=20
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Agree, Michigan's secondary has the potential to be good but are no where near the best. Will Johnson had knee surgery over the off season and may not be starting for the season opener. All the other corner(s) are a work in progress.
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Projecting Every Conference's Best Secondary for the 2023 CFB Season | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10079132-projecting-every-conferences-best-secondary-for-the-2023-cfb-season)
They list UM as best in the conference any way. That means they might be best overall. We'll see of course, preseason rankings being what they are....
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Michigan football may have the best secondary in college football (bluebyninety.com) (https://bluebyninety.com/michigan-football-may-have-the-best-secondary-in-all-of-college-football/)
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Over the years I've noticed that various pre-season college football rankings are largely based on what happened the previous year. But OK, feel free to believe Michigan's secondary is the best in college football. I'm a little skeptical of Michigan's high pre-season rankings for historical reasons. There's a lot of ways Michigan's season could unravel. Injuries to key players such as QB McCarthy, the all new kicking/punting game is for shit, and the cornerback situation doesn't pan out are just a few of them.
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Oh my, look like Harbaugh is in trouble.
https://michigan.rivals.com/news/breaking-jim-harbaugh-suspended-four-games-to-open-2023-season?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9zcG9ydHMueWFob28uY29tL20vZWU1MGE2M2EtN2FkOS0zNTVjLWEyYjEtNTY0NjI1OTNkZTI3L2JyZWFraW5nLWppbS1oYXJiYXVnaC5odG1s&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAK1Yo0MP5lo5PTKJsLpGCveHQGu8JEr5h6Zp7WSWipbMTdpqEwNSCpnrE2HETy2ojC3JoEOWXkZIriVPED5zZtIUU-THf8Yil601Yhje1B7Xd0YAJqX_ZoAEe993NLvNxt0KApzDldOl4ePRG_l5x7SxxdO5penRP9gsYT2g_sfX (https://michigan.rivals.com/news/breaking-jim-harbaugh-suspended-four-games-to-open-2023-season?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9zcG9ydHMueWFob28uY29tL20vZWU1MGE2M2EtN2FkOS0zNTVjLWEyYjEtNTY0NjI1OTNkZTI3L2JyZWFraW5nLWppbS1oYXJiYXVnaC5odG1s&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAK1Yo0MP5lo5PTKJsLpGCveHQGu8JEr5h6Zp7WSWipbMTdpqEwNSCpnrE2HETy2ojC3JoEOWXkZIriVPED5zZtIUU-THf8Yil601Yhje1B7Xd0YAJqX_ZoAEe993NLvNxt0KApzDldOl4ePRG_l5x7SxxdO5penRP9gsYT2g_sfX)
Looks like once again the attempt to cover up is worst than the crime.
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With their schedule, make it a 10-game suspension.
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NCAA gearing up to bend Jeem over and spank em over a cheeseburger happy meal, meanwhile they just gave Tennessee a warning for speeding when they were going like 140mph on the highway. NCAA gonna NCAA.
I really wish B1G and Michigan just told the NCAA no. They were just like uh, yeah, no, fk you. Jeem isn't sitting out a game and you guys can get fked if you don't like it and then just bar NCAA investigators from all B1G campuses and facilities. That would be dope. Waiting for an entire conference to do this already and practically withdrawal from the NCAA so that it can die the death it needs to die. It's a relic of the antiquated past, a bygone era that no longer exists and therefore the NCAA need not exist anymore. Kinda like NATO. Buh bye. Goodbye and good riddance, and may it burn in hell. My two cents anyways.
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NCAA gearing up to bend Jeem over and spank em over a cheeseburger happy meal, meanwhile they just gave Tennessee a warning for speeding when they were going like 140mph on the highway. NCAA gonna NCAA.
I really wish B1G and Michigan just told the NCAA no. They were just like uh, yeah, no, fk you. Jeem isn't sitting out a game and you guys can get fked if you don't like it and then just bar NCAA investigators from all B1G campuses and facilities. That would be dope. Waiting for an entire conference to do this already and practically withdrawal from the NCAA so that it can die the death it needs to die. It's a relic of the antiquated past, a bygone era that no longer exists and therefore the NCAA need not exist anymore. Kinda like NATO. Buh bye. Goodbye and good riddance, and may it burn in hell. My two cents anyways.
I may kind of agree with you about the NCAA. But let’s be straight- Harbaugh is being suspended for giving false statements to the investigators. Others have suffered much worse fates for doing that.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F15d9xHXgAAhgTE?format=jpg&name=small)
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F15d9xHXgAAhgTE?format=jpg&name=small)
pretty sure anyone on this board could coach that team to a 4-0 record vs that cupcake stretch...
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With their schedule, make it a 10-game suspension.
no lies told there....
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lies?
probably Jim being Jim
I don't think he knows what's coming out of his mouth most of the time
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Doubt Harbaugh agrees with the NCAA investigators’ allegation. A two game suspension per burger seems a bit steep compared to other shenanigans around the country.
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Look out, Cleveland State.
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Doubt Harbaugh agrees with the NCAA investigators’ allegation. A two game suspension per burger seems a bit steep compared to other shenanigans around the country.
Wojo (Detroit News) put out a good article this morning. I would share it but it is behind a paywall.
he basically says that nobody looks good in this, not Harbaugh, not the University, not the NCAA. But he also points out, appropriately, the Harbaugh brought this on himself. It’s not about the cheeseburger, but it’s about lying to the investigators.
He said it’s not a “nothing burger” like most of them fans would like to pretend, but it’s also not a triple cheeseburger. His conclusion was that Michigan can still win at all this year, but they’re holier than thou fans can stop acting like they do things the right way.
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lies?
probably Jim being Jim
I don't think he knows what's coming out of his mouth most of the time
Remember 6-7 yrs ago 'Oh what a tangled web we weave/When first we practice to deceive'
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Michigan football: Jim Harbaugh likely faces four-game suspension for alleged false statements to NCAA (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/clemson/Article/michigan-football-jim-harbaugh-likely-faces-four-game-suspension-for-alleged-false-statements-to-ncaa-213183474/?fbclid=IwAR2AooJQMZsTIEKE0ZSKkqoZzZ6S4Oj_88Qc84S3WcJn0EuZ_O_KIzRbRIA)
???
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Somewhat nervous about how Harbaugh will react to any such negotiated deal that accepts that he supposedly lied.
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Somewhat nervous about how Harbaugh will react to any such negotiated deal that accepts that he supposedly lied.
Why. First of all- he won’t admit it. That’s why they moved the infractions to level 1, and there is a suspension. They have proof he lied.
Do you think he does all that much as a head coach on game day? He doesn’t call plays in either side of the ball. His strength is his coordinators.
Lastly- it gives him something to have faux outrage- a chip on his shoulder. It gives him a reason to go from target on the back as Big Ten favorite- to “ us against the world”
And they have 4 scrimmages for their schedule.
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Why. First of all- he won’t admit it. That’s why they moved the infractions to level 1, and there is a suspension. They have proof he lied.
Do you think he does all that much as a head coach on game day? He doesn’t call plays in either side of the ball. His strength is his coordinators.
Lastly- it gives him something to have faux outrage- a chip on his shoulder. It gives him a reason to go from target on the back as Big Ten favorite- to “ us against the world”
And they have 4 scrimmages for their schedule.
this.
their first 4 games are a cupcake stretch, pretty sure any of us on this board could head coach that to a 4-0 slate. I see this as perhaps a negative for Jeem's future at Michigan- he just might go you know what, f the NCAA, NIL, 'crootin', and all the bullshit I have to deal with in college- I'm going back to the pros. Wouldn't blame him.
But for THIS year, I honestly see it as nothing but a positive. He'll get his little 4 game slap on the wrist, the team will start off 4-0, and he'll come back with a vengeance and it will give a team that could've maybe been a little complacent after winning 2 B1G titles in a row some edge and fire and a chip on their shoulder- make them say "they're trying to destroy us and take us down with this BS, it's us against the world let's show 'em and let's have coaches back".
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In a perfect world Jeem would never sniff an NFL sideline again. But there are always pinhead owners who can't turn over the operation to professionals so they believe in the transitive properties and would sign him
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perfect???
you don't want him to leave now that you've gone back to back over the buckeyes?
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In a perfect world Jeem would never sniff an NFL sideline again. But there are always pinhead owners who can't turn over the operation to professionals so they believe in the transitive properties and would sign him
some NFL owner will give Jeem a shot eventually imo.
Like him or not, Jeem is objectively a pretty damn good coach. Even if he is a complete weirdo and tires people out, he wins more ball games than he loses. Far more. And he's a proven turnaround artist. At three levels. USD was a terrible FCS team, Jeem went in there turned it around and got them to back to back 11-1 seasons before he jumped to Stanford. Stanford was maybe the worst P5 program in the nation when he took it over, left them 12-1 with a BCS bowl win. Goes to the 49ers who were 5-11 the season before he got there and hadn't been to the playoffs in a decade, took them to 3 straight NFC title games and a trip to the Super Bowl in 4 years. Goes to Michigan, which was essentially a dead program from 2008-2014, and has turned that around and now has them as prohibitive favorites on the verge of 3 straight B1G titles and playoff trips.
Dude might be a lot of things and his passing offenses might suck but there is no doubt he can coach football and win lotta games. I think if he has Michigan winning the B1G and in the playoff for a 3rd year in a row that a few NFL teams looking for new coaches in '24 will want to hire him.
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How much of a penalty is it to have a coached banned from the sidelines for fours games?
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not much for Jim
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I will stifle a chuckle, maybe, if UM goes 13-0 and then gets whacked in the CFP.
They need to play an SEC schedule with UT Martin and Vandy and avoid teams like Appy State.
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https://twitter.com/UMFanAugdahl/status/1684572919404666882?s=20
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https://twitter.com/theaugerdogger/status/1683885353399201795?s=20
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Elon took a bad thing and made it worse
Oh and I'll cache it,you know in the high unlikely hood that Mel upsets the apple cart
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How much of a penalty is it to have a coached banned from the sidelines for fours games?
It would have screwed Florida under Spurrier. But I think this is the penalty because it's not a particularly detrimental one.
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bold prediction time:
if there's a breakout currently unknown WR on the roster in '23 it'll be Darius Clemons. He's 6'3, 210+, physically looks the part, was a top 150 overall 'croot in '22 class and ran verified laser time 4.37 in the 40 at The Opening combine that Nike puts on at their HQ in Oregon every year.
if there's a breakout currently unknown CB on the roster in '23 it'll be Ja'Den McBurrows. Everyone is talking about the transfer portal kid Josh Wallace- who has the age and experience or Amorion Walker- who by all accounts is the best athlete on the roster. But McBurrows has flashed when he's been healthy and gotten time and looked great in the spring.
Outside of CB Will Johnson, NT Kenneth Grant will wind up being their best player on defense by the end of the year imo. Kid is freakishly big and agile.
Probably not a so bold prediction here, but in terms of their ability to win it all in the playoff, Michigan will go as far as JJ McCarthy takes them. If they get a similar season to what JJ gave them in '22 or just a small notch better- they'll still have great shot at winning the B1G and making the playoff, but that's about it. IF JJ takes a real jump and turns into a legit 1st rd NFL draft prospect- then you have a team that I'd actually put $ on to win it all.
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bold prediction time:
if there's a breakout currently unknown WR on the roster in '23 it'll be Darius Clemons. He's 6'3, 210+, physically looks the part, was a top 150 overall 'croot in '22 class and ran verified laser time 4.37 in the 40 at The Opening combine that Nike puts on at their HQ in Oregon every year.
if there's a breakout currently unknown CB on the roster in '23 it'll be Ja'Den McBurrows. Everyone is talking about the transfer portal kid Josh Wallace- who has the age and experience or Amorion Walker- who by all accounts is the best athlete on the roster. But McBurrows has flashed when he's been healthy and gotten time and looked great in the spring.
Outside of CB Will Johnson, NT Kenneth Grant will wind up being their best player on defense by the end of the year imo. Kid is freakishly big and agile.
Probably not a so bold prediction here, but in terms of their ability to win it all in the playoff, Michigan will go as far as JJ McCarthy takes them. If they get a similar season to what JJ gave them in '22 or just a small notch better- they'll still have great shot at winning the B1G and making the playoff, but that's about it. IF JJ takes a real jump and turns into a legit 1st rd NFL draft prospect- then you have a team that I'd actually put $ on to win it all.
If McCarthy just eliminates a few of the rare turnovers- I like Michigans chances. They are loaded this year.
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If McCarthy just eliminates a few of the rare turnovers- I like Michigans chances. They are loaded this year.
Eliminating the few dumb turnovers isn't enough imo. JJ needs to start making big plays in the passing game in order to take that offense up a level. And they are pretty well loaded up nearly everywhere but WR imo. They have bunch of solid WRs, but nothing to write home about imo. Cornelius Johnson & Roman Wilson are better than people think, but they are nothing like what OSU/BAMA has kept trotting out the last 5-6 years- not even close. Michigan hasn't had a truly elite unstoppable take over the game guy like that since Braylon Edwards or Mario Manningham. That's a looooooong f'ng time. DPJ was suppose to be that- but Jeem never developed him properly. Kid would've been a top 10 pick had he gone to OSU.
Michigan is going to have an excellent two deep on the OL with what they have returning & developing + the transfer portal guys they brought in- it'll be the best overall depth they've had along the OL in probably 15-20 years- no hyperbole there. They have 10 guys right now that could start at most P5 schools.
They'll have the best 1-2 punch at RB in the entire nation with Corum + Edwards imo. Edwards is the best RB in the sport if you ask me- has just begun to scratch the surface. Excellent TE room with the growth of Colston Loveland (who was a studly true frosh last year) and the addition of a veteran TE from the transfer portal in AJ Barner.
Defense they have excellent talent, experience, and depth at DL, EDGE, LB, and S. They'll have maybe the best CB in the entire nation in Will Johnson (he's got that kind of high 1st rd ceiling) and one of the very best nickel DBs in Mike Sainistril. The concern is CB depth and who plays the other outside CB spot opposite Will Johnson.
IF JJ doesn't take a massive leap and shatter every Michigan passing record this year- something went really wrong. He's got every tool in the book. He's legit 6'3ish, he's a terrific athlete- has way better agility and speed than I think people realize- he is a legit threat as a runner- and he's got high level arm strength- he can make every throw in the book and then some. Kid throws darts and dimes sometimes that just make you go wow- then other times it's just- what the hell was that?
Everything else around him is so good that I still think they are an 12-1 maybe even 13-0 B1G chip winning team if JJ has a repeat type of season and only marginally improves. But they'll stall out in the playoff again. Only way they'll have a chance at a Natty is if JJ can really level up and take his game to that 1st rd NFL draft level. He's got all the physical tools and raw ability- whether or not he can get there is the $64,000 ?. Unfortunately I think a big part of the problem in his quest to get there is his coach Jeem....but perhaps this 4 game suspension will have the interim coach open it up and air it out a bit more and allow for JJ to just cut it loose for the first month of the season and not have to worry about his autistic coach hanging over his shoulder. Jeem's retardation, his aversion to risk, and his pathetically out-dated passing schemes/concepts and overall general philosophy when it comes to offense hinders QB's imo.
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UM had more yds passing than rushing vs tOSU last November over 500 total - that pretty balanced
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UM had more yds passing than rushing vs tOSU last November over 500 total - that pretty balanced
yeah but that was one game- with a bunch of big play chunk passing plays- JJ only attempted around 23 or 24 passes and completed only half of those....
Kid only threw for around 2,600-2,700 yards and 22 TDs last season....which honestly are abysmal #'s in the sport today and right around/near Michigan all-time passing records. Which is kinda sad.
If he doesn't go for 3,200 to 3,500 yards and 32-35 TD's this season and rewrite every (pedestrian) all-time passing records at Michigan....then yeah they just aren't going to get over the hump imo. They'll be exactly where they've been the last 2 seasons. Good enough to win the B1G, then get bounced in 1st rd of the playoff.
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yup
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Michigan’s offense prioritizes running the ball. Pass when needed or occasionally to keep the defense honest.
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Michigan’s offense prioritizes running the ball. Pass when needed or occasionally to keep the defense honest.
Yeah, we're talking 3,200-3,500 pass yards and 32-35 pass TD's....which is pedestrian by todays standards- we're not talking elite passing attack 45-50 pass TDs & 4,500-5,000 pass yards from the QB like OSU has had basically every year since Ryan Day has been in Columbus.
IF JJ can't even hit 3,200-3,500 and 32-35 pass TDs against that schedule....then JFC something went WAY wrong. Those sort of #'s should be the bare MINIMUM this season....and if JJ can't do that in this day and age where the entire game is rigged for passing the football- then Jeem should really just go fk himself and make his suspension permanent by kicking rocks and going off to the NFL.
Jeem's Stanford teams prioritized running the football as well. That didn't stop Andrew Luck from making a massive leap in production in his 2nd year as the starting QB. He went from 2,500 pass yards and only 13 pass TDs his first year starting for Jeem to just under 3,400 pass yards and 32 pass TD's in his second year starting. OPEN UP THE GOD DAMN OFFENSE and there's no reason why JJ can't have similar production with the OL/TE/WRs/RBs he's got around him. Idk here's an idea...maybe feature Donovan Edwards in the passing game A LOT more and big plays and touchdowns will happen more often....
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Michigan’s offense prioritizes running the ball. Pass when needed or occasionally to keep the defense honest.
Would you say this about the UGA offense as well, more or less?
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yeah but that was one game- with a bunch of big play chunk passing plays- JJ only attempted around 23 or 24 passes and completed only half of those....
Kid only threw for around 2,600-2,700 yards and 22 TDs last season....which honestly are abysmal #'s in the sport today and right around/near Michigan all-time passing records. Which is kinda sad.
If he doesn't go for 3,200 to 3,500 yards and 32-35 TD's this season and rewrite every (pedestrian) all-time passing records at Michigan....then yeah they just aren't going to get over the hump imo. They'll be exactly where they've been the last 2 seasons. Good enough to win the B1G, then get bounced in 1st rd of the playoff.
Chad Henne who was more of a passing QB at Michigan completed 162/278 attempts for 1938 yards in 2007. Don’t know where your getting your 3200 yards passing requirement for JJ but suspect its out of your ass. Maybe if he was playing for BYU in the WAC in the olden days.
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Would you say this about the UGA offense as well, more or less?
Yup
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Would you say this about the UGA offense as well, more or less?
No. Todd Monken >>>>>>>>>> Jeem's 'tism 'tard band of OC'ing and play calling.
Stetson Bennett attempted a lot more passes than JJ and threw for 1,400 yards more.
Both want to use the run to control clock and set up play-action, but one team opened up the passing playbook far more, was far more creative with their passing schemes/concepts, and had an OC/play-caller & QB combo that were FAR more effective & simpatico and had far more big chunk explosive passing plays of 20+ yards. That one is Georgia. Obvi.
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Yup
nope.
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Chad Henne who was more of a passing QB at Michigan completed 162/278 attempts for 1938 yards in 2007. Don’t know where your getting your 3200 yards passing requirement for JJ but suspect its out of your ass. Maybe if he was playing for BYU in the WAC in the olden days.
you're the only one talking out of your ass hombre.
it would be a PATHETIC sad joke if JJ can't even hit 3,200 pass yards this year with everything he's got coming back against that dogshit schedule.
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well, with the dogshit sched they will just run the ball, burn clock and win games by a couple TDs
this is the Big Ten
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well, with the dogshit sched they will just run the ball, burn clock and win games by a couple TDs
this is the Big Ten
Yeah or just do what Ohio State does and blow everyone off the field before half-time by airing the ball out...why grind Corum or Edwards into the ground to beat a bunch of cupcakes?
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yup, I'd rather be up by 28 and playing 2nd and 3rd string in the 2nd half
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this is honestly probably the weakest schedule I've ever seen Michigan get. It's hilariously pathetic.
The best team they face from the West is.....Minnesota? Is Minnesota really going to out-Michigan Michigan? Nah. @Nebraska might've given me a slight pause if it was a night game- but is a noon kickoff and they are breaking in a new coach and going through roster turnover. OOC slate is ECU, UNLV, and Bowling Green all at home. LOL. B1G opener is fkn Rutgers at home. Their 3rd crossover game is Purdue at home- who is also going through a coaching change and massive roster turnover like Nebraska.
They get Ohio State at home. They have to play Penn State on the road. That's their entire schedule....
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you're the only one talking out of your ass hombre.
it would be a PATHETIC sad joke if JJ can't even hit 3,200 pass yards this year with everything he's got coming back against that dogshit schedule.
I'm with @Temp430 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=131) on this. I think that @Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595) is looking at the crap schedule and thinking that increases the yardage that JJ should throw for but I think that has the opposite impact.
I don't think that Harbaugh or his 4-game stand-in are going to sling the ball all over the yard unless they have to and I just don't see more than maybe two teams on the schedule that can force Michigan to throw.
Also, how many 4th quarters will JJ even play in?
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As for the teams that might be able to force Michigan to throw, even that is questionable. The two I was thinking of were Penn State and Ohio State.
Last year against Penn State:
JJ was 17/24 for 145 yards, no TD's, and a pick. Those are obviously very pedestrian numbers but that was because Michigan didn't have to throw. They ran 55 times for 418 yards and four TD's, an average of 7.6 yards per rush. That 7.6 yards per rush is actually more than the 6.0 yards per pass attempt that JJ had.
Last year against Ohio State:
JJ was 12/24 for 263 yards, 3 TD, and no picks. Those numbers are a lot better (other than completion percentage) but I think that was largely due to Ohio State's commitment to stopping the run. In that game Michigan ran 35 times for 252 yards and three TD's, an average of 7.2 yards per rush. Those numbers are good, but not as good as the results against PSU.
Ohio State simply lasted deeper into the game before the dam broke. Halfway through the fourth quarter Michigan's rushing totals were 28 carries for 81 yards and one TD, an average of 2.9 yards per rush.
Ohio State bottled up Michigan's rushing offense for three and a half quarters and JJ did enough to beat them. Even at that, his 263 yard total against the Buckeyes would be 3,156 in a 12-game season.
I don't see JJ throwing for 3,000+ because I'm not confident that tOSU and PSU can make them pass and I am fairly confident that their other 10 opponents can't.
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I think Ohio State has a better shot at slowing down Michigan’s run game imo. They seem to be bigger up front than PSU. PSU defense seems built a little light in the tooth up front and geared to stop the pass and rush the passer. Not a good recipe for a team that has the OL and backs to ram it down your throat. Styles make fights.
I am probably an idiot and PSU will now shut down the M rush attack completely, but after getting bitch slapped the way they did in ‘22 they’re going to have to prove it. No one should give them the benefit of the doubt. They were physically man handled and if not for a busted play by the defense where Clifford faked out everyone and popped a 62 yard rush and then a freaking fluke batted INT that game wouldn’t have been close at all ever. The score at halftime didn’t tell the story in terms of how Michigan’s front lines were just physically manhandling Penn State’s. It was like watching Varsity HS team vs a bunch of 6th graders.
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Also, how many 4th quarters will JJ even play in?
That is a good point if UM substitutes freely Their RBs should be fresh going deep into the season. Perhaps booger leaves his coordinators alone.JJ prolly could toss for 3200 but are those the teams goals?
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just heard this on a podcast preview, Michigan has 7 guys on their two deep at OL that have started at least 10 P5 games. RG Zak Zinter (31), LG Trevor Keegan (23), OT/G Karsen Barnhart (15), OT Trente Jones (10) + portal guys OT/G LaDarius Henderson (29), C Drake Nugent (24), RT Myles Hinton (16) = 148 games of starting experience, add their top back-up at G Giovanni El-Hadid and it's 151 games.
El-Hadid would be starting at most other P5 schools. RS Sophs Greg Crippin and Raheem Anderson would likely be starters at Michigan if not for Zinter & Keegan deciding to come back (both were legit NFL draft picks who came back) + Michigan being fortunate to get a pair of plug and play starting vets to portal over in Henderson and Nugent. They legit have 10 guys that could start at most P5 schools. Deepest OL that Jeem's ever had at Michigan. Yeah they lost maybe the best center in CFB, but their OL is gonna be deeper and it's gonna be better in 2023, crazy as that sounds.
It's easily the best RB room that Jeem has ever had at Michigan. Blake Corum and Donovan Edwards are stars. Ben Hall was the star of the spring camp and popped in the spring game. Looks like they'll have a 3rd RB this year to spell their two headed monster- something they didn't have last year.
It could wind up being the best TE room that Jeem has ever had at Michigan. Jake Butt remains the gold standard for Michigan TE's under Jeem- Erick All might've been able to surpass Butt but they only got 1 season out of All due to injuries. Colston Loveland flashed as a true frosh- probably more talented than either of them- and he's one to watch in 2023- could be a huge weapon in the pass game this year and have a big sophomore season.
JJ is going into his 3rd year in the program after having a successful first year as starter and is easily the best player at QB and the most gifted QB all-around that Jeem has ever had at Michigan.
Bullish on every aspect of that offense except for the WRs. Think they have good enough talent there but nothing to write home about. Just a bunch of guys.
QB: JJ = very athletic + big arm, has every tool in the tool kit. RB: Corum & Edwards = total studs. OL: talented, experienced, rock solid, & deep. TE: Colston Loveland gonna be big-time imo. Oozes NFL talent. WR = MEH.
Yeah there is like no excuse at all whatsoever for Jeem to not completely open up that offense. Loveland needs to get a lot of targets down the field- he's a complete mismatch for LBs and safeties- and they need to actually feature Donovan Edwards in the passing game out of the backfield and in the slot this year- who is like a cheat code in that mode.
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https://twitter.com/Local4News/status/1688609045228224512?s=20
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good stuff???
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good stuff???
great stuff. the originator of the Detroit style pizza.
well, not all the locations are great...used to be just a handful of Buddy's back in the day, now there maybe 25 of them? some big private equity fund started investing in them and expanding their operations and opening more locations in Detroit area and supposedly going to take it national- quality has gone down a bit....but still pretty good. MUCH better than the trash pizza they were serving at the stadium.
OG store on 6 mile still the best location imo.
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A couple of dudes from Detroit opened up a Detroit-style pizza place in Austin called Via313. It's delicious and they've been very successful, they now have multiple locations.
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great stuff. the originator of the Detroit style pizza.
well, not all the locations are great...used to be just a handful of Buddy's back in the day, now there maybe 25 of them? some big private equity fund started investing in them and expanding their operations and opening more locations in Detroit area and supposedly going to take it national- quality has gone down a bit....but still pretty good. MUCH better than the trash pizza they were serving at the stadium.
OG store on 6 mile still the best location imo.
I feel the same about Pizzeria Uno, the originator of deep dish. Back in the 90s I think, they sold out and franchised. If you've eaten Pizzeria Uno anywhere EXCEPT the original location on Ohio & Wabash (or at Pizzeria Due a block away), you're eating a completely different thing. It is absolutely not the same.
And it seems like every time I go back and eat the original, going back over almost a 30 year period, every single time I go it tastes worse than the last time. It's definitely gone downhill.
What's strange about that is that Lou Malnati's, started by cooks that were originally working at Pizzeria Uno, has locations all over Chicagoland and they're *all* delicious and represent the original product. Now to the point where I'd rather eat Malnati's than even the original Uno location.
It's been sad to see the downfall of Pizzeria Uno...
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A couple of dudes from Detroit opened up a Detroit-style pizza place in Austin called Via313. It's delicious and they've been very successful, they now have multiple locations.
been there! it's very good. and yeah they are basically Buddy's rip off and went out to Austin and built a small pizza empire.
Buddy's started in the 1930s or 40's I want to say, and it was a bunch of Sicilian/Italian immigrants who started making square pizzas in a steel auto pan and the thing just took off and took over the Detroit food scene.
There is a national pizza chain from Detroit called Jets who are basically like the fast food pizza version of Buddy's and the brothers who started it used to work at Buddy's. They probably have around 500 locations now in not all 50 states but most states- and as far as fast food delivery pizza goes, it's pretty damn good. Probably about as good as you're gonna get for that genre.
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I feel the same about Pizzeria Uno, the originator of deep dish. Back in the 90s I think, they sold out and franchised. If you've eaten Pizzeria Uno anywhere EXCEPT the original location on Ohio & Wabash (or at Pizzeria Due a block away), you're eating a completely different thing. It is absolutely not the same.
And it seems like every time I go back and eat the original, going back over almost a 30 year period, every single time I go it tastes worse than the last time. It's definitely gone downhill.
What's strange about that is that Lou Malnati's, started by cooks that were originally working at Pizzeria Uno, has locations all over Chicagoland and they're *all* delicious and represent the original product. Now to the point where I'd rather eat Malnati's than even the original Uno location.
It's been sad to see the downfall of Pizzeria Uno...
tale as old as time, no? the finance/cpa nerds and MBA dorks on wall street get their claws on a great product and think "hey we're geniuses...got a genius idea guys....let's expand the brand and open new locations in new markets and charge franchisee fees and sales royalty fees all while we cheapen and dilute the product (which made the brand great in the first place) by getting better economies of scale by buying the cheapest possible ingredients from the biggest possible suppliers/distributors who give us the lowest bids and then we'll also raise all the prices for all the food so we can make even more money....we're fkn geniuses guys!"
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Yup, I'd say Jet's is about 80-85% as good as Via313, which means it's pretty darn good, and it's cheaper and a lot easier for me to get to. It's definitely among the best of the fast food options around.
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two best players on Michigan's team going in 2023 imo. both Detroit kids, both 247composite 5*'s. one coming off his true frosh season the other coming off his true soph season in which he missed a chunk of games bc injuries, wasn't the starter, was never 100% and still ran for nearly 1,000 yards and averaged 7.5 yards per carry.
Both these guys are fricken' DUDES and both gonna be 1st rd picks imo. Will Johnson is literally the prototype at CB- what every NFL team is looking for and Edwards is so explosive and versatile.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5bPpqekiRQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkh2Oxp-kfk
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(https://i.imgur.com/QUIMHwb.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/QUIMHwb.png)
Don't know about 20 but they'll have quite a few....
Offense:
QB JJ McCarthy
RB Blake Corum
RB Donovan Edwards
RG Zak Zinter
LG Trevor Keegan
LT LaDarius Henderson
For sure will all get drafted.
Drake Nugent, Myles Hinton, Karsen Barnhart, and Trente Jones may all have a shot at OL. Roman Wilson and Cornelius Johnson both have a shot at late round depending on how they perform this year. Wilson will put up insane #'s at the combine in the 40 and shuttle. Don't see anyone else draft eligible that would have a shot at getting drafted. MAYBE AJ Barner at TE- but I doubt it bc don't think he'll put up the #'s. Colston Loveland will be the featured TE.
Defense:
DT Kris Jenkins
LB Junior Colson
FS Rod Moore
Nickel Mike Sainistril
For sure will all get drafted.
Then you have a few edge guys that could if they have big seasons and test well in Jaylen Harrell, Braiden McGregor, and the transfer portal kid Josaiah Stewart. McGregor looks the part- very prototypical frame/body- was a former 5* 'croot before injury cost him his sr season of HS and he fell back and finished in the top 100ish range. Stewart is undersized but man is he quick and he can rush the passer- very similar in that respect to former Michigan EDGE Josh Uche- who went 2nd rd. Makari Paige at safety might have a shot- 6'3+ safety that can move in space. Mike Barrett at LB'er more of a UDFA guy.
Jeem just hyping his guys. No problem with that. Long as they deliver and win the B1G and make the playoff that is.
They ain't getting to 20. But they'll have double digits drafted.
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I imagine so, but I find his claim to be poorly timed.
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I imagine so, but I find his claim to be poorly timed.
yeah it's really poorly timed. no need to be talking about the draft at all til the season is actually over. hasn't even started.
Jeem gonna Jeem.
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most everything that comes outa jims mouth is poorly timed
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Looks like Coach Harbaugh will be coaching all of Michigan's games this year.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38180842/source-ncaa-deal-michigan-jim-harbaugh-rejected (https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38180842/source-ncaa-deal-michigan-jim-harbaugh-rejected)
Not a cheeseburger and yes, the NCAA still has a hard on for Harbaugh.
https://sports.yahoo.com/not-a-cheeseburger-comment-suggests-the-ncaa-is-hellbent-on-hitting-jim-harbaugh-hard-015020596.html? (https://sports.yahoo.com/not-a-cheeseburger-comment-suggests-the-ncaa-is-hellbent-on-hitting-jim-harbaugh-hard-015020596.html?)
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Is there anyway H ends up in hot water after this season? (Barring something off field).
10-3? 11-2? 14-1??? Maybe only the first starts some background murmurs?
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Hot water? No, but there's always the NFL.
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Is there anyway H ends up in hot water after this season? (Barring something off field).
10-3? 11-2? 14-1??? Maybe only the first starts some background murmurs?
Jeem is back to the NFL soon. That's why he doesn't care about making a deal with the NCAA imo.
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prediction: Michigan will be much better rushing the passer at EDGE this season than they were last. They were just OK at that last year. I think they're going to be pretty good at that this year.
They'll have four guys rotate two spots in Jaylen Harrell, Braiden McGregor, Derrick Moore, and Josiah Stewart.
Jaylen Harrell (6'4, 245) is a returning starter who had 7.5 TFLs and 3.5 sacks last year in 2022 as his first season as a starter. He's very stout against the run- showed flashes as a pass rusher and should only continue to get better in Year 2 as a starter.
Braiden McGregor (6'6, 267) is the most talented of the entire bunch, has been compared to Aidan Hutchinson. McGregor has the NFL prototype height/length/build. McGregor was an early 5* 'croot that finished ranked in the top 100 in the 247Composite (ESPN recruiting service kept him at 5* despite the injury in HS) who missed his entire HS senior year and his entire true frosh year and part of his RS Frosh year at Michigan because of injuries. Last season in 2022 was his first real action back on the football field since his JR year of high school- and he made 3 starts and had 5 TFLs and 2.5 sacks. If there's a breakout candidate on that defense this year- it's him.
Derrick Moore (6'3, 258) was the MVP of the HS All-Star Under Armor Game and a top 50 player overall in the 247Composite in the 2022 class - and he showed why as a true frosh last season. Moore had 2 sacks appearing 14 games in the EDGE rotation. He's dropped 18 pounds from a year ago and has reshaped his body and has been their best pass rusher all spring ball.
Josaiah Stewart (6'1, 245) is the transfer portal kid from Coastal Carolina- where he starred as a true frosh and soph in 2021 & 2022- and set the single season program record there with 12.5 sacks in 2021. He's a bit on the small side but he's got the quickest first step and get off of any of the four. He'll be used mainly on obvious pass rush situations and on exotic blitzes- very similar to the way Josh Uche was used.
This is a better edge room than they had going into the season last year.
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Jeem says he's got 4 starting offensive tackles and that Karsen Barnhart has been having the best fall camp so far. Karsen Barnhart and LaDarius Henderson have been at LT and Myles Hinton and Trente Jones have been at RT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ShPrN5XPwg
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no excuses
the offense should set some Big Ten records
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no excuses
the offense should set some Big Ten records
don't know about B1G records because OSU probably has lots of those- but if this offense doesn't shatter Michigan records for offense- which admittedly is a low bar (M's offensive record books are a joke- seriously)- then something is seriously wrong. They have all the pieces any team would be envious of except for gnarly WRs- but their WRs are more than good enough to win with- Cornelius Johnson and Roman Wilson are both experienced, talented more than capable outside at WR. They need a guy to step up in the slot and some young guys to come along to provide depth- but basically everywhere else on offense they are stacked. OL will be very experienced, talented and deep. TE duo of Colston Loveland + AJ Barner should be excellent- especially if Loveland makes the kind of jump everyone inside that program thinks he's about to- everyone saying he's Jake Butt 2.0. They have the best 1-2 punch at RB in America plus a sleeper 3rd back who was the star of the spring and who I think is going to be a stud in the future in true frosh Ben Hall. And they are returning a very talented QB that was a former 5* 'croot who had a good rookie season and should only get better and grow- and if he makes the kind of leap most QBs make in Year 2 from Year 1- sky is the limit for that offense.
there is really no excuse for Jeem not to turn JJ loose and let 'er rip.
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3* true frosh WR Fredrick Moore...been making a lot of noise as a huge surprise in fall camp....been showing out and turning heads...don't think anyone thought he'd look so good so fast. Could be one to watch as Michigan needs other WRs behind returning upperclassmen Roman Wilson and Cornelius Johnson to emerge.
https://twitter.com/UMichFootball/status/1692674353044087235?s=20
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Jeem is talking about putting back-up QB Alex Orji at kick returner this year and says he believes Orji could be an all-time great kick returner. LINK (https://www.maizenbrew.com/2023/8/15/23833141/michigan-wolverines-football-jim-harbaugh-alex-orji-quarterback-special-teams-kickoff-returner).
Orji is a true sophomore QB listed at 6'3, 237 pounds and saw limited action in mop duty last year at QB. Orji is one of the best athletes on the roster and made Bruce Feldman's annual "Freaks List" of the most freakish athletes in college football at #50.
50. Alex Orji, Michigan, quarterback
There’s a bunch of other Wolverines we could’ve included in here in this spot: Blake Corum, who does 30 reps of 225 on the bench and also clocked a 6.39 3-cone and a 3.89 shuttle; Zak Zinter, who at 6-6, 325, vertical-jumped 33 inches and had a 4.44 shuttle; or Mike Sainristil, who had a 40-inch vertical and bounded up the reactive plyo stairs in 2.26 seconds, but Orji was who several teammates pointed to as their top Freak.
The 6-3, 237-pound sophomore quarterback ranks No. 1 on the team in its cumulative KPI score, which is made up of 48 Key Performance Indicators they use to track frame analysis: flexibility/mobility; strength/power; and agility/speed. Orji vertical-jumped 41 inches and did 2.34 in the reactive plyo stairs; broad-jumped 10-6; and did 3.97 in the shuttle and 6.65 in the 3-cone. On the field, the Texas native ran for two touchdowns and completed one pass in mop-up duty in 2022.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/jI-UMYgUXLE
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that's great if he returns a kick in a tight game and figure=s in a win
if he get's injured and then the team loses a game because of backup QB play it's not great
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that's great if he returns a kick in a tight game and figure=s in a win
if he get's injured and then the team loses a game because of backup QB play it's not great
right now I think Orji is probably the 3rd or 4th string QB. Dude reminds me of an Anthony Richardson or Joe Milton. Mountain of a man, freakish athlete for a QB, very strong arm, but not the greatest passer....
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Michigan/Jeem self-imposing a 3-game ban effective immediately apparently....very stupid. NCAA could turn around and say we don't care....here is more punishment. F the NCAA.
https://twitter.com/JoshHenschke/status/1693665153613545875?s=20
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I think this is a good move by Michigan's athletic department if viewed as an inoculation to protect next season where they play Texas in addition to the Big Ten games.
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I think this is a good move by Michigan's athletic department if viewed as an inoculation to protect next season where they play Texas in addition to the Big Ten games.
won't matter. that schedule is brutal and 2024 is going to be a full-on rebuilding year.
Losing....
Kris Jenkins, DT - going to be a 1st rd pick if he has the kind of year he's capable of...dude is a mutant.
Blake Corum, RB - going to be an NFL draft pick, 2nd best RB they've had at Michigan in oh..decade plus...behind only.....
Donovan Edwards, RB (he's already said he's going pro after this year) - could be the first RB taken in the 2024 NFL draft
Mike Sainistril, NCB - dude is a team captain and hell of a player at the nickel...those high level slot corners are tough to find man....they got LUCKY he switched over from WR and was so freaking good- dude is a unicorn- that legit just shouldn't happen...he's got a legit NFL future and will get drafted.
OG Zak Zinter - might be the first guard picked in the 2024 NFL draft
OG Trevor Keegan - surefire NFL draft pick at guard in 2024 NFL draft
OL LaDarius Henderson, OL Drake Nugent, OL Karsen Barnhart, and OL Trente Jones - all graduate - whether any of them are NFL draft picks- we'll see- I think a couple of them might be- but add those four into Zinter + Keegan- so thats basically all of your 2023 starters and 60% of the two deep and tons of starting experience- gone.
Michael Barrett, LB - graduating- really solid college player and B1G starting caliber LB- but likely not an NFL draft pick imo.
Guys who could skip their senior seasons and go pro with big seasons:
JJ McCarthy, QB - has every NFL tool
Junior Colson, LB - ditto
Rod Moore, S - could go pro and has a shot at being a 1st or 2nd rd pick with a level up season- kid is legit the best safety they've had in like OH forever...
Makari Paige, S - ditto
EDGE Braiden McGregor
EDGE Jaylen Harrell
EDGE Josiah Stewart
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I think this is a good move by Michigan's athletic department if viewed as an inoculation to protect next season where they play Texas in addition to the Big Ten games.
a better move would be a self-imposed 5-game suspension
and giving 5-game portion of Jim's salary to charity
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UM's Ath. Dept. are a gaggle of feckless dweebs,why suspend Jeem for 3 games now?Are they afraid of Rutgers for the 4th? At Home? If they were worried about high standards they should have done this last year to him for allowing a felon with a gun charge on a plane 3 hrs after that event,WTF? That he was fully aware of
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UM's Ath. Dept. are a gaggle of feckless dweebs,why suspend Jeem for 3 games now?Are they afraid of Rutgers for the 4th? At Home? If they were worried about high standards they should have done this last year to him for allowing a felon with a gun charge on a plane 3 hrs after that event,WTF? That he was fully aware of
Michigan's Ath Dept is and always has been a joke- but that is what you get at an uppity school full of dorks and self-righteous wankers with an AD hiring pool that seems to exclusively be "Michigan Men" turd-nuggets who played for Bo like Dave Brandon or Warde Manuel. That "Michigan Man" crap....yeeesh.
Gimme SEC ADs and Presidents all-day long. Love the all-in big dick river boat casino captain attitude- don't give a F about anything but supporting the football program and winning football games- spending small fortunes on coaches and facilities- bending over backwards on admissions to get any kid into the school- looking the other way on everything- not giving a shit about paying players- and basically telling the NCAA to F off at every turn. Give me that all day long. Stop with all the pretension, self-righteousness and holier art thou attitude and all the pretending of being better or above the fray. Cause you're not. Just shut the fk up and win.
Michigan has no sack. They shouldn't have suspended Jeem one game, they should've told the NCAA to FK right off from the get go and refused to co-operate and answer any of their questions. They should've spent an army on lawyers immediately and just sued the NCAA for everything and everything under the sun. Seriously. Should've taken them to court right off rip, put $100 million into a legal defense fund- filed hundred of law suits and bury those shitbags in legal fees to the point where they just say yeah- f this and drop it.
Bunch of spineless, nutless, sackless pussies.
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Are they spineless yes but lawyering up when UM hardly has the moral high ground? Good luck selling that to any parents/kids thinking about grades and proper environment. Who we bulshitting those kids are going to ND/NU anyway and Jeem recruits strictly the portal now all the development is done - nothing wrong with that at least by today's standards
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season cannot get here fast enough. Michigan has 3 dudes on the interior at tackle this year.
Kris Jenkins- who had a 19.8% run stop rate- highest run-stop win % in FBS last year for all d-linemen- had 33 run stops- tied for most in FBS last year for all interior d-linemen- was a stud last year as a first year starter as a rs sophomore- dude put on 15+ pounds and is an athletic freak- was #5 on Feldman's annual freaks list this year- there's video of Jenkins doing a turkish get up floating out there on the twitters with a 175 pound dumbbell- so uh yeah he's a mutant- he's on the verge of blowing up into a very high draft pick with a level up 2nd year starting.
Mason Graham- who started at defensive tackle as a true freshman- and was a hell of a player- PFF's highest graded true freshman DL in all of FBS with an 80.3 overall grade and a PFF Freshman All-American. Graham truthfully was probably the best true freshman d-tackle I've ever seen play at Michigan. Few ever play- let alone start and play at a high level like Graham. I honestly can't ever recall one starting and playing as a true freshman at Michigan like that and playing at a high level. He's about to level it up in his 2nd year as a starter.
And they have a secret weapon who was the #1 pick in their spring game- who is going to be a terror this year in Kenneth Grant. Dude is so big he makes Mazi Smith look small by comparison- and Mazi Smith was just a 1st rd pick and that guy is built like a freaking brick sh!thouse refrigerator. Kenneth Grant dropped 20 pounds this off-season- dude might be literally the biggest most imposing human being I have ever seen in person outside of Jake Long. When I saw that dude in person last year he legit looked like an NFL player- not an 18 year old true freshman. Dude got into the rotation at NT as a true frosh last year backing up Mazi Smith- think he's going to be in for a big year.
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Myles Hinton, the RS JR OT they got in the portal from Stanford- who started 16 games at RT the last two seasons- would've started more- only played in 7 games last year bc of injury- younger brother of former Michigan DT Chris Hinton Jr.- who was a former 5* recruit out of Georgia. Myles was also a 5* recruit. Dad is former NFL 7x Pro Bowler/3x All-Pro Chris Hinton Sr- the man who was famously traded for John Elway. Needless to say the athletic genes are strong in that family....have a tough time not seeing this dude start at RT if he's healthy....6'6, 330+....uhm how do you keep that off the field....dude looks like a monster....that is the size and frame that the NFL dreams of in a tackle...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F3WYOLrXgAAro0z?format=jpg&name=large)
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Michigan announcing it's team captains today, guess is probably Nickel Mike Sainistril or DT Kris Jenkins on defense and RB Blake Corum or LG Trevor Keegan on offense.
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Michigan names 6 team captains, 3 on offense and 3 on defense.
Nickel Mike Sainistril
DT Kris Jenkins
LB Michael Barrett
RB Blake Corum
LG Trevor Keegan
RG Zak Zinter
https://twitter.com/UMichFootball/status/1694716495908229356?s=20
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Michigan football twitter announces the coaching duties in Jeem's absence...
DC Jesse Minter will be the HC vs ECU, ST Co-Ordinator Jay Harbaugh will be the head coach first half vs UNLV, RB Coach Mike Hart will be the head coach second half vs UNLV, and OL Coach/OC Sherrone Moore will be the head coach vs Bowling Green.
Wouldn't be surprised at all if all four of those guys were head coaches in the FBS some day.
https://twitter.com/UMichFootball/status/1694836460489155040?s=20
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Elon clamped down on twitter you use to be able to at least read the replies without subscibing - not now
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not gonna break my heart
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some of the comments were decent.....after sifting thru the chaff
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now you tell me
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(https://i.imgur.com/IDR9B9Y.png)
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UW took 15 transfers this year. They also lost 19.
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coaching change
not sure how many UNL took in or out
not as many as Prime
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going with Braiden McGregor as my candidate for breakout player on defense in '23...prototype frame/size for EDGE rusher at 6'6", 267.....Aidan Hutchinson-esque in terms of size/build/athletic skill set, got his feet wet last year, will be a starter this year.
https://twitter.com/MGoJDBlue/status/1691803467843543258?s=20
https://twitter.com/KBGoBlue/status/1619586594650091520?s=20
https://twitter.com/nickbaumgardner/status/1596578215740510212?s=20
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nearly 3 min long highlight reel of JJ McCarthy's 2022 season. obviously only shows the good, doesn't show the bad.
the arm talent and athleticism pop on the screen. he's a plus athlete for the position, can really run and throws on the run accurately- which is a skill not many have. has a really live arm, can zip it into tight windows, can make every throw, and changes up ball speeds really well- something guys with big arms often struggle with. some of the absolute darts he throws on the run are very impressive.
feels like he's only scratching the surface. he has room to get a lot better at the little things, not being so sloppy in his foot work (which will improve accuracy greatly), reading defenses, processing speed, changing plays & protections....
https://twitter.com/CFBRep/status/1692349642258665653?s=20
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Jeem on Inside Michigan football radio show on local Ann Arbor radio tonight...
On JJ McCarthy:
"He's so terrific at so many things. It's everything that he wants to get better at. And I've seen the growth in every area. Leadership is off the charts."
On the offensive line:
"All four tackles have been great. Karsen Barnhart has excelled at four spots this fall- he's a swiss army knife. Myles Hinton has come on like gang busters. There are days, even a whole week, where he (Hinton) looks like the best tackle."
On Corum and Edwards:
"Doesn't get any better, I know that. Donovan has gotten so much stronger, and he looks like he's ready for a breakout season. Which he had last year."
On the RB depth chart:
"Kalel Mullings is 3rd RB entering the season behind Blake Corum and Donovan Edwards. Benjamin Hall is right up there with him on the depth chart."
On the defense:
"I love them. I'm not going to anoint them the best ever (he's ever had). They've got a chance though."
On the EDGE position:
"Four starting EDGES - Derrick Moore, Braiden McGregor, Josaiah Stewart and Jaylen Harrell."
On the Linebacker position:
"More depth at linebacker this year. Mike Barrett and Junior Colson are the starters. Ernest Hausmann and Jaydon Hood are the back-ups."
On the Secondary:
"Guys have been banged up at safety at corner. Nothing long term, but could impact who plays this Saturday. Keon Sabb - we didn't play him enough at safety last year. Keon Sabb has risen straight to the top at safety. Keon Sabb and Quinten Johnson are starter-caliber safeties. We're really lucky."
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from the horses mouth- sounds like LT battle still raging down to the wire between Karsen Barnhart and LaDarius Henderson. Looks like Myles Hinton has locked up the RT job. Henderson might be more talented, Barnhart is very experienced in the system and just a really damn good college player. May the best man win the job.
Returning starters Michael Barrett and Junior Colson are your starting ILBs- which is what was expected. Duh. Back-up ILBs are the transfer Ernest Hausmann and a healthy Jaydon Hood has made a move up the depth chart.
Kalel Mullings is RB 3....for now. Fully expecting true frosh Benjamin Hall who is neck and neck to pass him up.
Sounds like they have 4 dudes at EDGE they really like that they are going to all get starts and rotate a ton and they'll all get a lot of minutes.
Secondary has been banged up. Rod Moore and Makari Paige been working through nicks and bruises, sounds like Keon Sabb has really come on strong and is going to play a lot more in his sophomore season.
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DC Jesse Minter on Year 2 with the defense:
"There's not a ton of turnover. We lost 5 to 6 key contributors — a couple to the portal, 3 or 4 to the NFL. It's a good amount of guys back that we have good understanding of each other. The players have bought into things they know they can do better as a defense."
On Areas to Improve on Defense:
"Angles to the ball were poor at times. Effort needs to be higher more consistently. Ball disruption, forced fumbles have been an emphasis. Communication in any environment and situation. Block disruption needs to carry over to the perimeter to prevent leaky yards from not setting great edges. Affecting the QB while rushing fewer people. Seen major improvements in pass rush. I'm excited about all those front guys, led by Kris and Mason on the interior."
On portal transfer EDGE Josaiah Stewart:
"He was probably under-recruited out of high school. Really has a knack as a pass rusher, run defender. I expect him to play our style of football. I expect him to be disruptive, especially on downs where you can pin your ears back and pass rush."
On portal transfer LB Ernest Hausmann:
"Ernest can play MIKE or WILL. He's a co-starter with Barrett and Colson. He's the first sub in for either of them."
On portal transfer CB Josh Wallace:
"Josh has a ton of experience. He has played in four different defensive systems, so he learned ours quickly."
On younger players:
"Keon Sabb and Zeke Berry will get some run. Both have made big jumps since spring"
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if the hype from the DC on Sabb and Zeke Berry is legit, and the hype from Jeem on Sabb is legit...JFC they are going to LOADED in the secondary. Really need a 2nd outside CB to emerge though. Badly. Was hoping to hear more about the portal CB Wallace or one of the young CBs like Amorion Walker. All we've heard about Walker is he's working through some minor injuries and will be back soon.
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Michigan/Jeem self-imposing a 3-game ban effective immediately apparently....very stupid. NCAA could turn around and say we don't care....here is more punishment. F the NCAA.
https://twitter.com/JoshHenschke/status/1693665153613545875?s=20
I just heard about this yesterday I think, where there will be different interim coaches each week or something?
But nowhere in the link says WHY? What did Harbaugh do?
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I just heard about this yesterday I think, where there will be different interim coaches each week or something?
But nowhere in the link says WHY? What did Harbaugh do?
school is self-punishing and suspending Jeem for 3 games over the whole cheeseburger/COVID gate the NCAA was investigating them for and trying to come to an agreement for a punishment. The 4-game deal with the NCAA broke down at the last second, so for some odd reason Michigan decided to self-impose a 3 game suspension this year.
DC Jesse Minter will be the head coach this week, ST's coach Jay Harbaugh and RBs coach Mike Hart will be co-head coaches week 2, and OC Sherrone Moore will be the head coach week 3.
Jeem will be back in time for the B1G opener week 4 vs Rutgers.
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Ah ok. I have no idea what the cheeseburger COVID thing is, but there you have it.
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Ah ok. I have no idea what the cheeseburger COVID thing is, but there you have it.
apparently some recruits came up to a visit to Michigan unannounced during COVID when they weren't allowed to and Jeem bought them some cheeseburgers for lunch with his credit card. Jeem was apparently zesty with the NCAA when they tried to question him on this.
OMG RUN AND GET THE NCAA AND GIVE MICHIGAN THE DEATH PENALTY!
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Yeah sounds like some typical stupid shit.
Texas was cited for an NCAA infraction in the 80s when a coach loaned a player a sportcoat to wear to a funeral.
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apparently some recruits came up to a visit to Michigan unannounced during COVID when they weren't allowed to and Jeem bought them some cheeseburgers for lunch with his credit card. Jeem was apparently zesty with the NCAA when they tried to question him on this.
OMG RUN AND GET THE NCAA AND GIVE MICHIGAN THE DEATH PENALTY!
Get it right. He lied to them. Period.
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Get it right. He lied to them. Period.
You don't what happened. The only people that know are the NCAA and people at the University of Michigan and they're not talking. And at this point everything is an allegation.
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You don't what happened. The only people that know are the NCAA and people at the University of Michigan and they're not talking.
Ok. If that makes you feel better.
I read what Wojo wrote about it( he has inside access)
this was a big, nothing burger, and it could’ve easily been reported minor, minor self in fraction, but when Harbaugh was questioned about it- he did his usual ornery bullshit and denied that he remembered it happening.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/bigten/2023/01/19/michigan-football-jim-harbaugh-wont-admit-lie-ncaa-violations/11081671002/
https://www.si.com/college/2023/01/19/jim-harbaugh-ncaa-infraction-case-
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/ncaa-investigation-stalls-amid-michigans-jim-harabaughs-refusal-to-admit-he-liedmichigan
https://new.cbssports.com/college-football/news/resolution-talks-between-jim-harbaugh-ncaa-stall-after-coach-refuses-to-admit-level-i-violation/
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Get it right. He lied to them. Period.
oh no here comes the hallway monitor!
DEATH PENALTY TO MICHIGAN!
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oh no here comes the hallway monitor!
DEATH PENALTY TO MICHIGAN!
Listen to you, Mr. holier than thou, Michigan man. Lol. You sure change your tune with it involves your school.
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I hate it when any of our schools get into trouble. That said:
But the NCAA has said this is NOT about cheeseburgers.
(https://i.imgur.com/9bC95a1.png)
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a damn zesty lie
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idk how credits from STANFORD don't transfer, but....ok.
https://twitter.com/_ZachShaw/status/1698705654997754245?s=20
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That's just stupid.
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That's just stupid.
that's Michigan for you. stupid af. they've never been able to get JUCOs in and have lost many transfers over the years because of credits transfer issues.
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In general they try to screw you on transfers.
I transferred from Indiana to Michigan State, which seems like a pretty lateral move. Every credit I transferred, including some 200 level math and econ classes I took freshman year transferred as general credit. Oddly, "Intermediate Piano for Non-Music Majors", which I took to fulfill some requirement, actually fulfilled a "World Cultures" requirement at MSU. Those 2 credits were the only credits that didn't transfer as general credit. So it took me 4.5 years to graduate, just to hit my requirements. I wound up with like 145 credits and a couple minors.
My brother did a year at CC, then transferred to Michigan, and every single one of his credits transferred for what it was. I know its taboo, but man, you save so much money doing that, for the same curriculum, actually taught by a more qualified instructor, as opposed to some overworked TA, speaking to a room of 500 kids
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that's Michigan for you. stupid af. they've never been able to get JUCOs in and have lost many transfers over the years because of credits transfer issues.
In my time as a UW ran, which is coming up on 40 (!) years, I've only seen them land 3-4 JUCO kids. These were kids who developed later and became solid players. To get into UW as a transfer you must have been able to qualify out of HS.
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Donovan Edwards, RB (he's already said he's going pro after this year) - could be the first RB taken in the 2024 NFL draft
Not sure how I missed this but from august 9th
“I will go down as one of the greatest running backs to ever play the game,” Edwards declared to PFF. “I’ll be up there with Walter Payton, Barry Sanders. I believe I will revolutionize the game and the position. This is the perfect time for me because the NFL wants running backs who can catch. 🤑
(https://media.tenor.com/images/32bacce37ab96b986e71cf10538a3b96/tenor.gif)
To which a Spartans Fan replied "1.5 yards per carry, he’s certainly revolutionizing the position." 6 attempts for 9yds last week vs UNLV
He has more career yards against UNLV than either Payton or Sanders.
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Not sure how I missed this but from august 9th
“I will go down as one of the greatest running backs to ever play the game,” Edwards declared to PFF. “I’ll be up there with Walter Payton, Barry Sanders. I believe I will revolutionize the game and the position. This is the perfect time for me because the NFL wants running backs who can catch. 🤑
(https://media.tenor.com/images/32bacce37ab96b986e71cf10538a3b96/tenor.gif)
To which a Spartans Fan replied "1.5 yards per carry, he’s certainly revolutionizing the position." 6 attempts for 9yds last week vs UNLV
He has more career yards against UNLV than either Payton or Sanders.
I generally don't like kids talking like that, just focus on being a great player, keep your mouth shut, let the play do the talking, and stay humble. but what do you want him to say? i'm gonna suck! great players have to think like that. obviously it's better if they don't say it publicly though....
in the first two games of last season vs juggernauts Colorado State and Hawaii he had a combined 15 carries for 90 yards. right now he's at 18 carries for 46 yards. not as good, but still comparable vs a couple of tomato cans. but he's also missed all of training camp recovering from injury this off-season. he'll get up to speed, and he'll be fine. no one cares what he does in Michigan's NFL pre-season. for him it's all about conference play and Ohio State.
And the Spartan fan who replied would cut his pinky off to have Edwards on his team btw, he'd be by far the best player on that roster if he was on it.
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Find out UNLV,hmm. That's some serious delusion the kid is a borderline moron if he actually thinks that
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Michigan to make Harbaugh highest paid coach in Big Ten.
https://detroitsportsnation.com (https://detroitsportsnation.com)
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I just received this from two high-ranking UM officials: “The Regents, Warde Manuel, and President Ono are all in alignment that Jim (Harbaugh) should have an extension within the next month that makes him the highest paid coach in the conference.” <br>That should settle that.</p>— John U. Bacon (@Johnubacon) <a href="https://twitter.com/Johnubacon/status/1711440381294862540?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 9, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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it's only money
unfortunately, the NFL can pay much more
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Harbaugh's current buyout is $35 million. Largest in the B1G at one point was Tucker's at $86 million. Makes me wonder how big of a buyout would be too big for a desperate NFL team?
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The NCAA's hard on for Michigan continues.
https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-ncaa-investigating-michigan-football-for-alleged-rule-violations-related-to-sign-stealing-161714176.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-ncaa-investigating-michigan-football-for-alleged-rule-violations-related-to-sign-stealing-161714176.html)
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The NCAA. Notoriously tough on helmet teams. :34:
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The NCAA's hard on for Michigan continues.
https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-ncaa-investigating-michigan-football-for-alleged-rule-violations-related-to-sign-stealing-161714176.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-ncaa-investigating-michigan-football-for-alleged-rule-violations-related-to-sign-stealing-161714176.html)
Hardly - lets be honest,can we? Last year a felony gun charge was covered up for over half the season until after the Ohio St game. Uzi Smith was speeding in AA didn't have a gun permit at all or his driver's license on him but he had 3 clips with 69 bullets. According to reports he actually broke another law getting on an Airliner 3 hrs later headed for Indiana and game the next day. And of course the prosecutor - an M grad with Wolverine memorabelia all over the walls pleaded down the case.Yet M fans call Tressel a cheater for not reporting his kids trading Buckeye gear/rings for tattoos and gets canned and wins removed that season - horseshit. Have one set of rules and stick with them
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The NCAA's hard on for Michigan continues.
https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-ncaa-investigating-michigan-football-for-alleged-rule-violations-related-to-sign-stealing-161714176.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-ncaa-investigating-michigan-football-for-alleged-rule-violations-related-to-sign-stealing-161714176.html)
Two big ten teams- that Michigan has already played this season, have gone to the NCAA to complain.
So stop blaming the NCAA. Weak sauce.
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Two big ten teams- that Michigan has already played this season, have gone to the NCAA to complain.
So stop blaming the NCAA. Weak sauce.
let me be the first to say if Michigan cheated against Minnesota Jimmy should be fired. he should not have to cheat to beat this team and if he did he should be ashamed. stripped naked and walked through AA with a bell ringing Nun saying shame shame shame
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That is a visual we can do with out plus i don't think he'd mind, the citizens however.......
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That is a visual we can do with out plus i don't think he'd mind, the citizens however.......
Let your mind complete the picture
(https://nesn.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2015/06/capture3.jpg)
(https://www.detroitnews.com/gcdn/-mm-/ba468cfdfb9c663177aca6285cd02099477432ba/c=26-0-1901-2500/local/-/media/2015/06/05/DetroitNews/DetroitNews/635691144747826786-Michigan-Harbaugh-Camp-Football-jruss-detnews.com-5.jpg?width=660&height=880&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp)
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Two big ten teams- that Michigan has already played this season, have gone to the NCAA to complain.
So stop blaming the NCAA. Weak sauce.
I think we can guess one
https://twitter.com/JimMWeber/status/1715068041552076803?s=20
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What's at play here? Forfeits??
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Stealing portal transfers,try to keep up
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What's at play here? Forfeits??
For EMU perhaps. Granted that will make cincy happy
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The NCAA is investigating if Michigan sent staff to scout upcoming opponents which is against the rules. The accusation of “stealing signs” is goofy and was thrown out to just make it sound bad a la Bill Belichick because stealing signs is not against the rules. It should be relatively easy and fast to determine if Michigan was scouting opponents in person.
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I would say the opposite. It was framed as though UM was doing something not against the rules, so that it could be laughed off, when if that was what 2 opponents accused them of, would have been immediately shot down. The helmet propaganda machine rolls on.
Since Harbaugh barely dodged getting fired in 2020, he has sure seemed real good about playing questionable players, hiring questionable coaches and breaking rules, while winning a lot of games.
That's typically how it works
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The NCAA is investigating if Michigan sent staff to scout upcoming opponents which is against the rules.
WHA,so you can't have scouts in the stands of an opponent the week before you play them? well then how the hell do you scout them?
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wonders if Rhule complained
doubt it
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Two big ten teams- that Michigan has already played this season, have gone to the NCAA to complain.
So stop blaming the NCAA. Weak sauce.
why not just go to the Big Ten ???
not a conference rule?
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Rhules - we don't need no stinkin' Rhules
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So hear me out. It's a remake of the Seinfeld wallet episode. Except instead of George, it's Harbaugh, what flies out are hamburger receipts, tickets to games of future opponents, fake gun permits, and Donovan Edwards/Schembechler AI written apology letters
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Greg Schiano is the biggest doosh asshat in the B1G and that’s saying something bc that disgusting mongoloid of a human being fatfuck BERT is in the B1G.
Michigan’s 2nd teams would probably beat the 4 B1G teams they played. Doubt this is nothing more than some penis envy.
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No one on the Michigan Shoshone was pounding on garbage cans.
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(https://i.imgur.com/g6VSkGW.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/EOCFmg8.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/EOCFmg8.png)
this needs to be on that message board genius twitter.
Deep web, FBI, what’s next UFOs and Russia?
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If Harbaugh was THAT good at cheating, he wouldn't keep getting caught. But he's winning WAY more games than when he wasn't, with zero meaningful repercussions. Bill Self is wondering what took him so long
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Sad that this is the most exciting thing to happen to date in the league.
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Former FBI agent hired by Ohio State’s head coach to investigate his rival? This sounds like something Woody would have concocted back in the day. Perhaps Day has been possessed by the entity that lived in Woody Hayes? The Big Ten/NCAA needs an Office of Exorcism.
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Sad that this is the most exciting thing to happen to date in the league.
Um, what about Iowa winning the West while failing to save the prince's job?
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Former FBI agent hired by Ohio State’s head coach to investigate his rival? This sounds like something Woody would have concocted back in the day. Perhaps Day has been possessed by the entity that lived in Woody Hayes? The Big Ten/NCAA needs an Office of Exorcism.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38700739/michigan-staffer-eyed-center-elaborate-scouting-scheme-sources-say
Nice try. “ look over there!” Might make you feel better though. 😂😂
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Former FBI agent hired by Ohio State’s head coach to investigate his rival? This sounds like something Woody would have concocted back in the day. Perhaps Day has been possessed by the entity that lived in Woody Hayes? The Big Ten/NCAA needs an Office of Exorcism.
It amuses me to no end that Day and Harbaugh have swapped personalities in response to losing to each other
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Yes, it is amusing. Woody and Schembechler were close friends. Don't think that's the case with Day and Harbaugh.
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Um, what about Iowa winning the West while failing to save the prince's job?
Yes, who says punting is not exciting? Punting is winning!
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It amuses me to no end that Day and Harbaugh have swapped personalities in response to losing to each other
You’re not buying into that BS are you? 🙈
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https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38700739/michigan-staffer-eyed-center-elaborate-scouting-scheme-sources-say
Nice try. “ look over there!” Might make you feel better though. 😂😂
Lol. All unverified anonymous sources and written by that wet limp dick Pete Thamel- who is Urban Meyer's personal ball licker and has gobbled more Urbs cock in his career than sorority sloots at UF & OSU combined.
Doesn't pass the bullshit sniff test. GTFOH.
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Lol. All unverified anonymous sources and written by that wet limp dick Pete Thamel- who is Urban Meyer's personal ball licker and has gobbled more Urbs cock in his career than sorority sloots at UF & OSU combined.
Doesn't pass the bullshit sniff test. GTFOH.
Thamel HATES OSU.
Maybe it doesn’t pass the sniff test. I have no idea. The Big ten felt it had enough “ credible evidence “ to actually warn MSU- publicly.
but quit deflecting and acting like this Has anything to do with anybody other than the University of Michigan it has nothing to do with Ohio State Just stop.
I expect this on the U of M homer boards where they will defend anything that the booger eater does or the university does and blame Ohio State. I’m sure it’s an Ohio State’s fault that Mazi Smith got caught with an illegal weapon.
But I hope for a better over here
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Rumors that the NCAA wants to look at a Michigan recruiting staff member's laptop. I believe it was for video clips of opponent sidelines gleaned from TV broadcasts. I hope the football staff has BleachBit'd the the laptop, shredded it, and then peed on the shards by now.
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The GAME is over a month away and we already have fighting. It's beautiful.
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The GAME is over a month away and we already have fighting. It's beautiful.
This is not about that. These complaints have come from 2 UM opponents already played this season.
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The GAME is over a month away and we already have fighting. It's beautiful.
hope Jeem stole all of OSU's signs then destroyed the evidence Hillary Clinton style and Day asks for a refund from his FBI agent investigator.
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This is not about that. These complaints have come from 2 UM opponents already played this season.
I get it. ;)
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hope Jeem stole all of OSU's signs then destroyed the evidence Hillary Clinton style and Day asks for a refund from his FBI agent investigator.
Put down Jeems balls. Your slurping isn’t credible.
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Greg Schiano is the biggest doosh asshat in the B1G and that’s saying something bc that disgusting mongoloid of a human being fatfuck BERT is in the B1G.
Michigan’s 2nd teams would probably beat the 4 B1G teams they played. Doubt this is nothing more than some penis envy.
my humble cornsidered opinion is that Jeem is by far the biggest douche
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my humble cornsidered opinion is that Jeem is by far the biggest douche
Seconded.
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my humble cornsidered opinion is that Jeem is by far the biggest douche
Motion has been made and seconded. All in favor say "Aye"!
(Chorus of Ayes)
All opposed say no!
(Crickets)
The ayes have it, the ayes have it!
https://youtu.be/3c3tKfW7o0g?si=2eAKeWXHwstid4hd
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Honestly @Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595) , do you even have a half throttle?
When you aren't happy with Harbaugh he is a booger-eating moron.
Today you aren't happy with Schiano so he is:
Greg Schiano is the biggest doosh asshat in the B1G and that’s saying something bc that disgusting mongoloid of a human being fatfuck BERT is in the B1G.
When you do like something you are 100% all-in that way. To hear you tell it, your #1 CB isn't just good nor even great, nope. He is the best in the history of ever.
Slow down dude.
Maybe I missed it but I don't think any of the tOSU or other potentially anti-Michigan guys here have jumped 100% all-in on the Jeem is the biggest cheater of all-time side.
That is certainly not where I am but it is a publicly revealed investigation by the NCAA that the league announced.
There might end up being nothing there, but there is enough smoke that it seems ludicrous to just brush it off with "Schiano is a doosh".
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Schiano is a good coach, I'm sure he'll return Rutgers to its former football glory. Nevertheless, somewhat disappointed that MDot21 didn't come up with a penis based label for him to compliment his characterization of other Big Ten coaches.
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I hope none of this is true. I don't like it when my school or its conference mates do bad things.
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Motion has been made and seconded. All in favor say "Aye"!
Aye - Aye
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I hope none of this is true. I don't like it when my school or its conference mates do bad things.
Just wait 'til the B1G and the SEC are done absorbing all relevant football schools and then merge into one giant black hole of "Haves," leaving the Have-nots crushed in their gravity. Then you'll be stuck in a super-league with Alabama and Auburn. The number of things you won't like will be vast.
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Yes, it is amusing. Woody and Schembechler were close friends. Don't think that's the case with Day and Harbaugh.
Don't think that's the case with Harbaugh and.....anyone.
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I'll probably not care by then. It's already getting harder and harder to be a fan anymore.
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Then you'll be stuck in a super-league with Alabama and Auburn. The number of things you won't like will be vast.
Shooting dogs and poisoning trees?
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Shooting dogs and poisoning trees?
Don't forget teabagging.
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I'll probably not care by then. It's already getting harder and harder to be a fan anymore.
I get it. NIL and the transfer portal are what seem likely to do me in. They've both pushed the sport toward being just NFL-lite, imo. I could be just getting older, but I can't keep track of the kids at all the positions anymore. We sign a class, but after a year half of them are gone to another school, and their half has been replaced by a slew of kids from schools around the country. Call me naive, but when I was growing up I could reasonably believe that kids came to BR because they wanted to represent the state and loved the program. I don't think that's the case anymore. Half of them come because they think it's a good NFL pipeline, and half of them leave because we're behind the curve in NIL $. Most don't care about the program or representing Louisiana athletics, I think.
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Don't forget teabagging.
WHA? Who doin' dat that's an SEC I just don't want to watch anymore
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hope Jeem stole all of OSU's signs
Those who stay… will be on probation.
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The Buckeyes changed their signs before The Game last year.
1420 days since Ohio State last beat Michigan in football.
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That doesn't include the 2020 chicken out
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https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38698092/what-do-accusations-mean-michigan-football-jim-harbaugh
Ole 2-5 Jim. 😂😂
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This is a weird topic. I didn’t even know teams couldn’t watch future opponents in person because of a 1994 rule that was put into place for monetary reasons. Secondly, to believe other teams haven’t done this is foolish. There’s a reason teams like Oregon started using odd pictures to call plays. Lastly, it’s even weirder to claim Michigan is only winning because Harbaugh is cheating. It’s a huge disservice to some of their talent that has filled the rosters the last couple years and currently.
All that being said, it’s a shame if they are breaking a rule.. although one that is likely extremely outdated. What’s sad is that college football has been on a terrible path the last 10 years and will no longer look like what I grew up with.
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1994 is outdated?
and for what monetary reason?
Heck, back in 94 the Husker O-linemen were telling the defense. We're running the same play as last time. You can't stop it.
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and for what monetary reason?
Not all schools could afford to send scouts all over the country for scouting purposes, and those that could were kind of happy to have it banned so they didn't have to pay for it anymore without losing an advantage
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There’s a reason teams like Oregon started using odd pictures to call plays.
I thought that wasn't to avoid sign stealing, but more to get the playcall in faster than could be done verbally when they were running the HUNH offense.
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https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2023/10/141866/ohio-state-changed-things-up-against-michigan-due-to-teams-alleged-sign-stealing-spearheaded-by-connor-stalions
Seems like is very well known among big ten coaches.
That also means it had very little impact since they most often had time change it up.
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1994 is outdated?
Do you honestly think college football looks anything like it did in 1994?
I thought that wasn't to avoid sign stealing, but more to get the playcall in faster than could be done verbally when they were running the HUNH offense.
there could be more to it, but.. https://www.espn.com/espn/page2/story?sportCat=ncf&page=hruby/110107_oregon_ducks_signs
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Wouldn't a helmet communications system to QB avoid all if this?
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Wouldn't a helmet communications system to QB avoid all if this?
Apparently that voids the warranty on the helmets and opens them up to lawsuits, and becomes again, very expensive for smaller schools
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I get it. NIL and the transfer portal are what seem likely to do me in. They've both pushed the sport toward being just NFL-lite, imo. I could be just getting older, but I can't keep track of the kids at all the positions anymore. We sign a class, but after a year half of them are gone to another school, and their half has been replaced by a slew of kids from schools around the country. Call me naive, but when I was growing up I could reasonably believe that kids came to BR because they wanted to represent the state and loved the program. I don't think that's the case anymore. Half of them come because they think it's a good NFL pipeline, and half of them leave because we're behind the curve in NIL $. Most don't care about the program or representing Louisiana athletics, I think.
We are getting pretty far OT for this thread but I agree.
I miss watching individuals and classes develop and improve as Buckeyes. Instead I see a tOSU recruit win a Heisman and an NC as a Tiger and another has a win over Bama as a Longhorn. It is just weird.
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Do you honestly think college football looks anything like it did in 1994?
sure as hell looks much different in Lincoln, NE
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Do you honestly think college football looks anything like it did in 1994?
Not at all.
Wisconsin was the Rose Bowl champs that year.
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Heck, back in 94 the Husker O-linemen were telling the defense. We're running the same play as last time. You can't stop it.
Ya and the Professors were telling the O-lineman we're giving you the same test as last time and you can't pass it
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Andy Katzenmoyer says howdy.
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Apparently that voids the warranty on the helmets and opens them up to lawsuits, and becomes again, very expensive for smaller schools
How does the NFL get around that?
I'm just thinking that bigger budget schools are always going to have an advantage on sign stealing so why not just avoid the issue completely by eliminating signs altogether?
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How does the NFL get around that?
I'm just thinking that bigger budget schools are always going to have an advantage on sign stealing so why not just avoid the issue completely by eliminating signs altogether?
No clue, I just saw this
Despite increasing support among coaches for helmet communications, college football has held off, namely because of cost but also some liability concerns. The vastly different budgets of leagues and teams would make helmet communication technology a financial challenge for the less-resourced programs throughout the sport. Steve Shaw, the national coordinator of officials, told The Athletic in 2022 that any change to helmets could void liability and warranty language, which then could open potential lawsuits for head injuries. "The long pole in the tent on this is getting the helmet authorization from the manufacturers and making sure they meet all standards and are totally supportive," Shaw said.
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all P5 programs can afford this
could at least use them for conference games and games between P5 programs
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Andy Katzenmoyer says howdy.
So do Crawford and Burger
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Wouldn't a helmet communications system to QB avoid all if this?
Yes
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Do you honestly think college football looks anything like it did in 1994?
When you're a Husker fan, that depends on how delusional you are.
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sure as hell looks much different in Lincoln, NE
Ha, that made me chuckle, yet sad. Made I was just too young and naive, but technology and media have slowly been ruining the games I love between college football and baseball. If you ever invent a Time Machine, can you take us both back to 1997 so we split or share our happiness.
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I didn't mind a split or share, would have easily split with Penn St. in 94
although I would much rather had the matchup with PSU in 94 as opposed to Miami in the orange bowl
and certainly would have liked our chances vs Griese in 97
If those games would have been played, for better or worse, ....... we may have put off the playoff for a decade or so
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Since Harbaugh barely dodged getting fired in 2020, he has sure seemed real good about playing questionable players, hiring questionable coaches and breaking rules, while winning a lot of games.
That's typically how it works
Playing what questionable players? Lolwut? Michigan has always let in and played guys that are dumb as a box of rocks or had questionable character. That is nothing new under Jeem.
It's pretty simple why Michigan has turned it around imo. They got way better on defense by getting rid of Dr. Blitz Don Brown and his Sir-Blitz-A-Lot leave LBs and Safeties in man coverage 24/7 vs NFL WRs scheme and changing systems to run an NFL style 3-4 and getting DC's from Jeem's bro with Ravens ties in McDonald and now Minter and they also just happen to get WAY better at the most important position on the entire field- QB- by ditching Joe Milton- who absolutely sucks- and then having a bridge year at QB with Cade sprinkled in with some JJ in '21 to JJ taking the reins completely. JJ is a 5* talent and is easily by far and it's not even remotely fcking close the best, most talented QB that Jeem has had in his 8-9 years at Michigan. Which isn't saying much because he hasn't really had any QB of note in that entire span until JJ.
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NCAA clearly out to get Harbaugh, he's been baiting and goading them since he got to Michigan.
Contract talks that were almost done are apparently now going to be put on pause as a result of this new nonsense.
This will be his last year at Michigan imo. He'll be wanted by NFL teams- especially if he wins the B1G and makes another playoff run 3 years in a row.
Why stay in college when you can go coach in the NFL? No sane coach would. It's just a better gig with less bullsh*t to deal with and more money to be made.
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NCAA clearly out to get Harbaugh, he's been baiting and goading them since he got to Michigan.
This will be his last year at Michigan imo. He'll be wanted by NFL teams- especially if he wins the B1G and makes another playoff run 3 years in a row.
if Harbaugh is cheating maybe he's auditioning for the Patriots job after Belichick? (https://www.cfb51.com/Smileys/fantasticsmileys/grin.gif) I haven't followed any of this I don't know or think stealing signs is novel or new. Unless they are eavesdropping with eletronic devices in lockerooms or hacking computers not sure it's that egregious. However it makes you wonder how they tore thru the BIG but were clueless vs TCU,hmm.
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if Harbaugh is cheating maybe he's auditioning for the Patriots job after Belichick? (https://www.cfb51.com/Smileys/fantasticsmileys/grin.gif) I haven't followed any of this I don't know or think stealing signs is novel or new. Unless they are eavesdropping with eletronic devices in lockerooms or hacking computers not sure it's that egregious. However it makes you wonder how they tore thru the BIG but were clueless vs TCU,hmm.
Yeah, no. It's easy to see why they tore through the B1G last year- the B1G sucked last year just like it does this year outside of 3 teams- one of which is Michigan.
Michigan thought they would walk into the playoff and beat TCU down. They were overconfident and choked. It happens. When you have a TD that was a TD overturned by the refs and then fumble the ball at the 1 yard line the very next play, throw TWO awful late passes to the sidelines for pick 6's, call stupid ass plays and get cute on 4th down in the redzone instead of taking free 3 points- well yeah you're probably going to lose the game. Michigan played a dogshit game and left 10 points off their scoreboard and gave TCU 14 and still only lost by 6 points. Not much to figure out and that last sentence is grasping at straws if I've ever seen.
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I call it, "Pot Stirring"
;)
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Must be a pain in the ass to have to change up your signs before the Michigan game.
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Michigan thought they would walk into the playoff and beat TCU down. They were overconfident and choked. It happens.
Or their agents didn't have the goods on the Horned Frogs (https://yt3.ggpht.com/2Ht4KImoWDlCddiDQVuzSJwpEb59nZJ576ckfaMh57oqz2pUkkgVTXV8osqUOgFHZdUISJM=w48-h48-c-k-nd) ;D
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Must be a pain in the ass to have to change up your signs before the Michigan game.
Yeah, we burgled your house, but you didn't lock the doors.
This is hilarious
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Didn't a OU team deke Texas one year by leaving a playbook behind or something. I seem to recall Leach pulling one over on TU while an assistant at OU.
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Yeah, we burgled your house, but you didn't lock the doors.
This is hilarious
yeah what’s hilarious is an analogy that doesn’t apply….
Sign stealing is not illegal. It’s smart practice. Video taping an opponents practice or intercepting their game day electronic communications- that’s a completely different thing and not even remotely close to being the same thing as stealing signs.
The issue with this ALLEGED sign stealing fiasco is that the NCAA banned in person advanced scouting in 1994. It has not been proven whether or not this Stations fellow was going to the games in person and doing advanced scouting. That’s the issue, that’s it. This actually has nothing to do with stealing signs.
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https://twitter.com/ESPNRadio/status/1715450606234583472?s=20
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Did you seriously just post a video from Geenberg........HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
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If Chris Day is whining to the NCAA about something Michigan is doing, someone is doing something right as long as no rules were broken.
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/393290115_299748586342351_8546642821469801082_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=6_ynuE82L-wAX_lU7m7&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAT2sF9mZCp8I0kKIrtqBaJASi24qtd_5FhXd0ZMbjf6g&oe=653A22CC)
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Harbs is done
https://twitter.com/PSU_FB_Thoughts/status/1716539427080528321?t=mvvFRzOHyWWNoaC7GvNgzA&s=19
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https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2023/10/142006/michigan-staffer-connor-stalions-reportedly-purchased-tickets-to-games-at-11-different-big-ten-schools-over-past
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Harbs is done
https://twitter.com/PSU_FB_Thoughts/status/1716539427080528321?t=mvvFRzOHyWWNoaC7GvNgzA&s=19
Whose "stadium surveillance" caught this?
If they actually have evidence this solid, Harbaugh is in deep here.
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https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2023/10/142006/michigan-staffer-connor-stalions-reportedly-purchased-tickets-to-games-at-11-different-big-ten-schools-over-past
From this article:
"Per ESPN’s report, the NCAA is also expected to receive video evidence this week that shows a person in a seat purchased by Stalions using his smartphone to apparently film a team’s sideline for an entire game at an opposing Big Ten school."
Also alleged is that Stalions purchased seats on BOTH SIDES for the recent tOSU/PSU game. Those seats allegedly went unused as this blew up before that game occurred but the rather obvious implication is that they were scouting both teams and both sets of signs.
Finally, per the link provided by @Honestbuckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=37) , they have stadium surveillance video showing a person in a seat purchased by Stalions recording the opposite sideline for the entire game.
This could all be BS but at this point there is a LOT of smoke and if these allegations hold up, I agree with @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) , Harbaugh is done.
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this is some good shit!!!
I can only hope it's true
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https://twitter.com/ChrisVannini/status/1716536735876730967?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1716536735876730967%7Ctwgr%5Eb36f173065f19548ff96d203972aeca8e24e9ccb%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fcollege%2Fohio-state%2Fboard%2F120%2FContents%2Fnew-evidence-of-scum-cheating-has-been-revealed--218738036%2F%3Fpage%3D1
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And the thing about this is that he's screwed either way. If he knew about it, he's obviously screwed. If he didn't know about it... LOIC and he's screwed.
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he knew about it
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https://youtu.be/2fXpYPpql6o?si=3eGuBIpaUiTZFtG8
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Jesus. A guy on the Michigan staff making $55,000 and you can afford to buy tickets to 30 games in 11 different stadiums. And then give them to a third-party because he was on the Michigan side line and not at that particular stadium. How could you afford that, how can you afford to pay whoever was in those seats?
Conveniently had tickets right around 45 yard line on both sides of the stadium in Columbus for this past weekend. Ohio State versus Penn State game. Obviously didn’t get to use them because he was suspended.
This really is a coordinated, elaborate, and well executed operation used to steal other teams signs.
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makes me wonder what Jeem is doing right now!??
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makes me wonder what Jeem is doing right now!??
Wiping his cell phone
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This
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Wiping his cell phone
break out that bleachbit baby.
I’ll wait to see the actual evidence before I believe any anonymous unsourced fake news media reports. These are the same jerkoffs which said Iraq had WMDs and Trump was a Russian plant….
can’t imagine this Stallions guy is that fking stupid he’d buy tickets to other games in his own name…
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This really is a coordinated, elaborate, and well executed operation used to steal other teams signs.
For the 100th time, stealing signs is not illegal. There’s nothing wrong with it. Everyone does it.
the issue is- did they do advanced in person scouting- which is illegal.
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I believe Stalions was hired by Michigan in the Spring of 2022. So, when did he buy these tickets? And was he reimbursed for them by the U?
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For the 100th time, stealing signs is not illegal. There’s nothing wrong with it. Everyone does it.
the issue is- did they do advanced in person scouting- which is illegal.
Are you just thick headed? They have receipts now. Stallions bought tickets, in his own name, to 30 games in 11 different stadiums. He bought them using third party apps like Stub Hub- but the name stills shows up for that school.
These were all future UM opponents and all were near midfield and elevated enough to see the opposing team bench and signals. ALL of the other Big Ten teams are now cooperating and finding this evidence. They are even sharing surveillance film showing the person in these seats filming the other team- for a whole game from what is being reported.
This form of sign stealing is TOTALLY illegal and provides a substantial competitive advantage.
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I believe Stalions was hired by Michigan in the Spring of 2022. So, when did he buy these tickets? And was he reimbursed for them by the U?
Do you really think that matters? He was on staff before 22 as a volunteer.
if a member of Michigan staff is in future opponents stadiums, and filming the other team - that is a blatant violation of the rules that all of these schools know about.
30 times in 11 different stadiums. Come on man.
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https://twitter.com/DanMurphyESPN/status/1716535219379966282?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1716535219379966282%7Ctwgr%5E0770797a029fcdd4b5aaf30e06e1b68b3747bdf0%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fcollege%2Fpenn-state%2Fboard%2F18%2FContents%2Fmichigan-officially-accused-of-in-person-scouting-to-steal-signs-218400967%2F%3Fpage%3D29
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How do you think the conference and other coaches feel about this? here is a sample :
This bears repeating with every new nugget that is surfacing:
Michigan's record in 4 years prior to allegation start date: 29-16
Michigan's record since: 33-3.
And one of those losses to a TCU and UGA team he had no idea he was playing to advance scout.
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break out that bleachbit baby.
I’ll wait to see the actual evidence before I believe any anonymous unsourced fake news media reports. These are the same jerkoffs which said Iraq had WMDs and Trump was a Russian plant….
can’t imagine this Stallions guy is that fking stupid he’d buy tickets to other games in his own name…
I'll agree with you to the extent that these allegations *could* be false or exaggerated. However, if the hard evidence backs up the allegations, Harbaugh is done.
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Harbs every time the NCAA calls
https://youtube.com/shorts/gHJ0HBUnQYA?si=Fwm5Ya97z3n7uvWI
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Don’t think you fire a head coach over this, just the renegade staffer if that is what happened. And few to nobody outside Schembechler Hall know what happened. Certainly not a bunch of Bucknuts at Eleven Warriors.
And where is this info on tickets for 30 games at 11 different opponents coming from? Leaked by the NCAA? Buckeyes? How does anyone outside of law enforcement get such private financial records?
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Are you just thick headed? They have receipts now. Stallions bought tickets, in his own name, to 30 games in 11 different stadiums. He bought them using third party apps like Stub Hub- but the name stills shows up for that school.
These were all future UM opponents and all were near midfield and elevated enough to see the opposing team bench and signals. ALL of the other Big Ten teams are now cooperating and finding this evidence. They are even sharing surveillance film showing the person in these seats filming the other team- for a whole game from what is being reported.
This form of sign stealing is TOTALLY illegal and provides a substantial competitive advantage.
read the article genius. there are no uploaded pdf copies of credit card statements or StubHub receipts. All it says "anonymous sources told ESPN" blah blah blah blah. It's pretty simple, if they have the evidence, publish it in the article or link to an uploaded DropBox or some shit. It's not rocket science.
Sorry, not going to just believe dickless wonder Pete Thamel aka Urban Meyer's personal ball licker/cock slurper.
Sign stealing isn't illegal. In person advanced scouting is.
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Don’t think you fire a head coach over this, just the renegade staffer if that is what happened. And few to nobody outside Schembechler Hall know what happened. Certainly not a bunch of Bucknuts at Eleven Warriors.
Renegade staffer? How much do you think those OSU/PSU tickets cost? Do you really think he was spending his own money for (2) prime seats with no promise of reimbursement?
Nah, if the allegations are true, *someone* high enough in the organization to reimburse was behind this. And then it's either Jim knew or Jim should have known. Either way he's in trouble.
Not even necessarily being fired by Michigan. This could be NCAA show-cause territory.
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hah, if enough wins are negated Jim is done
it's on his watch, he should have known if he didn't
his last 2 wins vs the Bucks are cancelled...... how's that gonna sit with the fans and boosters of substance?
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How do you think the conference and other coaches feel about this? here is a sample :
This bears repeating with every new nugget that is surfacing:
Michigan's record in 4 years prior to allegation start date: 29-16
Michigan's record since: 33-3.
And one of those losses to a TCU and UGA team he had no idea he was playing to advance scout.
this is a beyond retarded take.
yeah, it's all signs DerP. Has nothing to do with firing Don Brown's useless ass and replacing him with DC's from the NFL (thanks John Harbaugh!), hiring Sherrone Moore as OL coach in 2021 and building an elite OL culture- Moore just might be the best OL coach in CFB right now.....upgrading significantly at QB, RB (Corum and Edwards are prettty good), and getting players on defense like Aidan Hutchinson, David Ojabo, Will Johnson, Mazi Smith, Kris Jenkins, Mason Graham, Rod Moore developed- you know- round 1-2 NFL type guys on defense. iT's DaH sIgNz...DeRp...DeRp...*retard noises*
UGA has lost one game in like 3 years buddy, in an SECCG to a Bama team that was runner up in the Natty that featured the #1 pick in the 2023 draft and a WR that would've been a top 5 pick if he didn't blow out his ACL in the Natty....and still wound up being the #12 pick in the draft. That's it. Nobody was beating Georgia in 2021 with those mutants they had on defense....who are all kicking ass in the NFL now by the way...
Lack of signs really helped Michigan get boned by the refs vs TCU and have a TD overturned only for JJ McCarthy/Kalel Mullings to fumble the ball at the 1 yard line the very next play. Lack of signs totally helped JJ McCarthy make bad reads and throw not one but TWO god awful late passes to the sidelines which went for 6 the other way. Lack of signs really helped Michigan not call dumbass plays in the redzone and go for it on 4th down instead of take easy 3 points a couple times with their automatic kicker who was drafted in the 3rd round of an NFL draft.
Yup, it was all the signs.
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IF the tickets were reimbursed by the U then that’s an issue especially if the business purpose given for the expense was false.
Harbaugh should have known? I’m sure the NCAA will think so and use it to go after him. But we’re quite a ways from that point.
Something about how details got to thr media doesn’t smell right.
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hah, if enough wins are negated Jim is done
it's on his watch, he should have known if he didn't
his last 2 wins vs the Bucks are cancelled...... how's that gonna sit with the fans and boosters of substance?
except it's not the type of violation where wins would be vacated or even Harbaugh would be forced to be fired.
Harbaugh is 100% done after this year- and it's going to be because he's sick of the bullshit the NCAA is hurling his way and he'll have plenty of options to go back to the NFL. Dude is sick of college, don't blame him.
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https://twitter.com/Misopogon/status/1716546028860530747?s=20
https://twitter.com/Misopogon/status/1716560378950287814?s=20
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Don’t think you fire a head coach over this, just the renegade staffer if that is what happened. And few to nobody outside Schembechler Hall know what happened. Certainly not a bunch of Bucknuts at Eleven Warriors.
And where is this info on tickets for 30 games at 11 different opponents coming from? Leaked by the NCAA? Buckeyes? How does anyone outside of law enforcement get such private financial records?
OMG. Denial is the first stage they say.
The NCAA has the receipts from 11 different schools. Go watch the video posted up thread.
Lowlevel staffer? He wasn’t using the tickets/ most Saturday s was on UM sideline. Who was using them? Why would he have all the tickets in the area needed to view opponents bench?
What did he do with this information that he collected by filming the other team, which is totally illegal, and they supposedly have film of, keep it to himself? Your just not seeing the reality that everybody else can see, but you will
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except it's not the type of violation where wins would be vacated or even Harbaugh would be forced to be fired.
Harbaugh is 100% done after this year- and it's going to be because he's sick of the bullshit the NCAA is hurling his way and he'll have plenty of options to go back to the NFL. Dude is sick of college, don't blame him.
This is EXACTLY the kind of violation where wins would be forfeited! A competitive advantage on the field- during the game, acquired illegally.
do you think the tattoos Ohio State players got at discount because they traded in bowl? Memorabilia gave him a competitive vantage?
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Yes, video of someone holding their phone up in a stadium during a game is some hard evidence.
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As long as no staffers were at any of said games and the U didn't pay or reimburse for any tickets, technically there was nothing illegal done.
NCAA Bylaw 11's title is "Conduct and Employment of Athletic Personnel"
It does identify who is prohibited. Employed athletic personnel.
If Michigan can prove that no one who is on staff went to any of those games and that they never paid or reimbursed anyone for tickets or paid anyone even a 3rd party outside contractor/vendor to attend any games, they are good.
Article 11 governs the conduct and employment of athletics personnel (including 11.6 which regulates scouting). 11.1.1 makes universities responsible for all violations by staff members and 11.1.1.1 presumes that head coaches are responsible for all institutional staff member actions.
Section 4.02.3 defines "Staff" as those individuals who receive a regular salary from a member institution or organization for the performance of a regular staff function representing at least 50 percent of the normal workload for a staff member at that institution or conference. So any potential rule breaking, according to my quick legal analysis, would hinge on whether or not the individuals who attended and taped the games were staff members under that definition.
https://twitter.com/Bry_Mac/status/1716541026309898424?s=20
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This is EXACTLY the kind of violation where wins would be forfeited! A competitive advantage on the field- during the game, acquired illegally.
do you think the tattoos Ohio State players got at discount because they traded in bowl? Memorabilia gave him a competitive vantage?
except it's not. it's a level III violation. Baylor staffer was accused of the same thing in 2016-2017 and all he got was a 1 game suspension and Baylor didn't vacate any wins over it.
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except it's not. it's a level III violation. Baylor staffer was accused of the same thing in 2016-2017 and all he got was a 1 game suspension and Baylor didn't vacate any wins over it.
But this ain’t Baylor. This is Harbaugh and Michigan after kicking Buckeyes’ ass two years in a row and making NCAA enforcement look chicken shit. The NCAA will seek the death penalty.
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Again, the issue isn't the sign stealing. The issue is the advanced scouting rule. The rule was put in place in 1994 because most schools outside of the helmets with deep pockets couldn’t afford to send staffers to every single opponents game in person. Especially back then when the TV money was NOT what it is today. That's why the rule was put in place- not to prevent sign stealing.
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do you think the tattoos Ohio State players got at discount because they traded in bowl? Memorabilia gave him a competitive vantage?
OSU got in trouble because the NCAA caught Tressel lying. They wouldn't have ever had wins vacated or got additional punishment if not for that fact.
the coverup is always worse than the crime, as they say.
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Doubt Harbaugh is lying unlike Tressel. NCAA will seek the worst no matter. If not this then some other BS later on.
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Doubt Harbaugh is lying unlike Tressel. NCAA will seek the worst no matter. If not this then some other BS later on.
the only reason the NCAA ever found a damn thing out in regards to Tressel is because of a federal investigation into the drug trafficker that Pryor and those OSU players were hanging around and selling their stuff to and getting free tats from. Homie got popped by the Feds for selling bricks and that's how everything came out. Same with Michigan basketball- they only got popped because Ed Martin got raided by the FBI for running a huge multi-million dollar illegal gambling ring.
so unless Jeem is buying cheeseburgers from a drug dealer under federal investigation or this Stallions is under federal investigation....they should be good.
NCAA is a useless, toothless, dickless entity with no legal or subpoena power. Deny to you die, throw Stallions under the bus and bleachbit the phones and laptops and you're Gucci.
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This is Harbaugh and Michigan after kicking Buckeyes’ ass two years in a row.
Doubt Harbaugh is lying unlike Tressel. NCAA will seek the worst no matter. If not this then some other BS later on.
What other gems have you mined for us today you poltroon? Could you possibly be a bigger slappy? I stayed out of this but you thicko had to keep tumbling over your tongue. I just gave you the leash and you hung yourself. I don't give a shyt about this recent bullshit. However covering up UZi Smith's gun toting chode ways was a felony - 69 bullets and speeding thru AnnArbor. Then Getting on F***ing Airliner 3 hrs later - another felony - and laugh it off and plead it down.All of it kept under wraps for half the season until the December. Ya and BOOGER doesn't lie remember what the carnival barker stated "Oh what a tangled web we weave when at first we start to deceive" - ya absolutely fetching - take a bow. And then there are 3 fights AT Michigan over a 9 game span,ya - leaders and the best - it was everyone else. Only one of those coaches had a history of getting in others coaches grill - must be where they picked it up from.And Tressel kicked the Walverines ass many more yrs than two years in a row. That's just rich and he got run for Tatoos/memorabilia
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Chris Day gave birth to this BS. At this point its media and Buckeye fan base driven. The NCAA keystone cops do what they do to determine guilt or innocence. Don’t hold your breath.
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Omg. You UM guys are in total denial.
If it doesn’t bother you that your team broke the rules about advance scouting , filming the other teams signals - then this is all moot.
And the reason the NCAA is pissed at z Harbaugh is exactly because HE LIED about what would have been minor and insignificant recruiting violations.
What you’re missing is- the rest of the league is apoplectic about this because they now have what they consider proof. They won’t stand for UM getting off lightly for an in game competitive advantage. Not to mention the rest of CFB. Vegas not too happy either.
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Chris Day gave birth to this BS. At this point its media and Buckeye fan base driven. The NCAA keystone cops do what they do to determine guilt or innocence. Don’t hold your breath.
Now you’re grasping at straws. I’m sure the coaches and athletic directors at those 11 stadiums would strongly disagree with you.
But hey Michigan get caught cheating again, but look over there at Ohio State 😂😂😂😂😂
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Chris Day gave birth to this BS. At this point its media and Buckeye fan base driven. The NCAA keystone cops do what they do to determine guilt or innocence. Don’t hold your breath.
You bumped your gums Tressel was a liar when Booger covered up a much more grievous felony offense - JSTFU. When you're in a hole - stop digging
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I actually agree with Nubbz.
Jeem and Tressel both were/are great football coaches. Neither of them are/were choir boys and both running huge operations with a bunch of dumbass 18-22 year olds with way too much testosterone- most of them from ghettos and rough backgrounds- and many of them dumber than box of rocks.
These guys are football coaches. That's it. Not heroes. Not saints. Not moral guides. They are paid to do one thing. Win football games.
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https://twitter.com/kylamb8/status/1715528004464513344?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1715528004464513344%7Ctwgr%5E58a4b91260fa78c14d9ddec293ff81619f6cc5f1%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fcollege%2Fohio-state%2Fboard%2F120%2FContents%2Fstatistical-evidence-of-cheating-218744312%2F%3Fpage%3D1
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https://twitter.com/kylamb8/status/1715536128499978728?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1715536128499978728%7Ctwgr%5E58a4b91260fa78c14d9ddec293ff81619f6cc5f1%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fcollege%2Fohio-state%2Fboard%2F120%2FContents%2Fstatistical-evidence-of-cheating-218744312%2F%3Fpage%3D1
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https://twitter.com/kylamb8/status/1715528004464513344?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1715528004464513344%7Ctwgr%5E58a4b91260fa78c14d9ddec293ff81619f6cc5f1%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fcollege%2Fohio-state%2Fboard%2F120%2FContents%2Fstatistical-evidence-of-cheating-218744312%2F%3Fpage%3D1
Lol. Just did...critical thinking says...I don't care what some retard who works for another retard/weirdo like Ron DeSantis says.
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Now you’re grasping at straws. I’m sure the coaches and athletic directors at those 11 stadiums would strongly disagree with you.
But hey Michigan get caught cheating again, but look over there at Ohio State 😂😂😂😂😂
yeah, I don't think this is Ryan Day....this is all the NCAA which has a major hard on for Jeem.
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Ann Arbor Astro’s.
I have seen that now on a number of team websites.
But it’s an OSU thing. 😂😂😂😂
Made up for sure.
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Omg. You UM guys are in total denial.
If it doesn’t bother you that your team broke the rules about advance scouting , filming the other teams signals - then this is all moot.
And the reason the NCAA is pissed at z Harbaugh is exactly because HE LIED about what would have been minor and insignificant recruiting violations.
What you’re missing is- the rest of the league is apoplectic about this because they now have what they consider proof. They won’t stand for UM getting off lightly for an in game competitive advantage. Not to mention the rest of CFB. Vegas not too happy either.
to answer your question....I really don't care at all. no advanced in person scouting is a dumb, dated rule. it was good for it's time, as schools like Purdue or Syracuse or Vanderbilt probably didn't have the money in the football budget that schools like Michigan, Ohio State, Alabama, or Texas had back in 1994. There was no insane TV money like there is now. Those schools still don't have the budgets of the helmets, but when B1G/SEC schools are getting $70-100mm year from TV rights deals and ACC/B12 schools are getting $35-40mm - everyone can afford to sent scouts to games now...
And I get that some G5/MAC schools still might not be able to, but I really don't give a flying fck. You know my thoughts on the FBS having 133 freaking teams already. That's a joke. Push them all to the FCS or start a new division and call it the Power 4 and the G5 can stay in the FBS. Idk.
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So this guy buys two tickets on the opposite sides of the 45 yard line of the OSU-PSU game and doesn't use them?
Death penalty
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So this guy buys two tickets on the opposite sides of the 45 yard line of the OSU-PSU game and doesn't use them?
Death penalty
for real. how do you miss that one in person if you have tickets?
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for real. how do you miss that one in person if you have tickets?
At least share the wealth, Stallions
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My serious take: if Michigan whomps their way through PSU and OSU and wins the conference, then there is no real controversy. If they get picked off somewhere and are in a "should they make the playoff debate" then this will be all anyone talks about and could definitely lead to them getting excluded.
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My serious take: if Michigan whomps their way through PSU and OSU and wins the conference, then there is no real controversy. If they get picked off somewhere and are in a "should they make the playoff debate" then this will be all anyone talks about and could definitely lead to them getting excluded.
My hot take…Michigan’s OOC schedule was so embarrassing and the B1G is so bad that Michigan probably has to win both PSU and OSU games or they are out.
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My hot take…Michigan’s OOC schedule was so embarrassing and the B1G is so bad that Michigan probably has to win both PSU and OSU games or they are out.
I would amend that to Michigan has to win the league but that is probably a distinction without a difference because Michigan is very unlikely to win a 3-way tie in the East so they probably have to beat both PSU and tOSU because otherwise they probably either lose the three-way tie or lose outright and either way they are out.
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My serious take: if Michigan whomps their way through PSU and OSU and wins the conference, then there is no real controversy. If they get picked off somewhere and are in a "should they make the playoff debate" then this will be all anyone talks about and could definitely lead to them getting excluded.
That’s honestly a pretty fair take. Let’s see what happens in the only two real games they’ll play this year now that it’s out in the open. I think the rule is dumb and dated, but it’s still a rule. I think sign stealing has been going on a long time, but not at this level most likely.
I also think comparing Harbaugh’s first few years to his last couple is a little shortsighted as well. Michigan was a mess when he came in. Their recruiting level was well below Ohio State and arguably penn state for a while. Michigan State was also a player for a while and their somewhat collapse helped Michigsn recruiting. The talent level of the last couple Michigan teams compared to the Brady Hoke leftovers isn’t even comparable.
lastly, if it was no one technically on Michigan’s staff that was in attendance, what does the rule specifically say? Is it still a violation if someone on the staff bought the tickets or the staff have to actually be there? I know we have some legal minds here so curious the specific language and verbiage and the take from our legal minds?
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lastly, if it was no one technically on Michigan’s staff that was in attendance, what does the rule specifically say? Is it still a violation if someone on the staff bought the tickets or the staff have to actually be there? I know we have some legal minds here so curious the specific language and verbiage and the take from our legal minds?
I've seen people claiming that there is some loophole here, but I am dubious. The rule is very short and says in total: Off-campus, in-person scouting of future opponents (in the same season) is prohibited, except as provided in Bylaws 11.6.1.1 and 11.6.1.2.
The exceptions aren't football related. If they find the actions were to scout opponents, I'm not certain that anything else matters.
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I would be surprised if other schools don't scout like this as well. It is difficult to catch. Having caught it there should be punishment. But, perhaps the rule should be changed due to the impossibility of enforcement.
What do you suppose a coach will do if Michigan fans, or Northwestern fans, go to opponents' games and email the coaches with the other team's offensive signals? Are they going to delete the email, or are they going to print it, then delete it? After all, it's information in the public domain.
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https://sports.yahoo.com/media-reacts-espn-michigan-football-210646079.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall
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Curious to see who is making these leaks to the media? My guess is that it's the NCAA enforcement division. Lots of pertinent facts still unknown which the NCAA should investigate. Were these tickets purchased when Stalions was a Michigan employee? And was Stalions reimbursed for the ticket purchases by Michigan? While an employee did Stalions, or any other Michigan staff member, attend these games? If not, its not going to amount to a hill of beans. And I doubt any video on Stalions' lap top or the large laminated placard he carries on the sidelines during games, is going to make a difference. Again, this is all media and Buckeye blowhards trying to take Chris Day's paranoid plot as far as it goes.
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Curious to see who is making these leaks to the media? My guess is that it's the NCAA enforcement division. Lots of pertinent facts still unknown which the NCAA should investigate. Were these tickets purchased when Stalions was a Michigan employee? And was Stalions reimbursed for the ticket purchases by Michigan? While an employee did Stalions, or any other Michigan staff member, attend these games? If not, its not going to amount to a hill of beans. And I doubt any video on Stalions' lap top or the large laminated placard he carries on the sidelines during games, is going to make a difference. Again, this is all media and Buckeye blowhards trying to take Chris Day's paranoid plot as far as it goes.
You are so delusional it’s almost sad.
First of all- this has nothing to do with an Ohio State. But you already know that. That’s just you are delusional reflex. Read the article I just posted above and all the media responses and tell me where in there is anybody from Ohio piping in on this? This is a national story.
Second of all, they already have proof that this guy bought tickets over three seasons, two opponents games, just before they were going to play Michigan, and they already have proof that the person sitting in the seat was video recording the opposing teams signals. Unless of course they are lying about what they have.
why don’t you address how you feel about your team, breaking the rule of advance, scouting in person, and breaking the rule of using those advanced scouting games ( 30 times over 3 seasons) to gain an illegal competitive advantage?
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My hot take…Michigan’s OOC schedule was so embarrassing and the B1G is so bad that Michigan probably has to win both PSU and OSU games or they are out.
My hot take outside of the PAC - who else could point a finger regarding Strength of Schedule.The BIG was still 3 top 5-6 teams perched at the top.Ironically the strongest Conference this season is collapsing in on itself.Had the PAC done this well 2 yrs back perhaps it would still be standing,damn shame
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I do think this Michigan staffer's intention was to collect video in order to steal signs. But I don't think he did it at the behest or blessing of Michigan's coach or football program. I think his actions enhanced his ability to steal signs but was of marginal competitive advantage as are all attempts to steal signs. If he or another staff member did not attend in person, no NCAA rules were explicitly broken. When all is said and done my guess is that Stalions will be fired and banned from the sport. Michigan will not have to vacate any wins nor will there be any kind of post season ban or scholarship reduction. Maybe Michigan pays a fine. If all this puts a twist in Day's knickers, all the better.
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First of all- this has nothing to do with an Ohio State. But you already know that.
This is all the Buckeyes' and Chris Day's doing. They gave the NCAA what they wanted. If you can point the finger at Harbaugh sans facts, I sure as hell can point the middle finger at Day.
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Don't you all remember the page or two notice that used to be may still be in the media guide warning fans and other non donors that they can still be considered boosters even if theynarent using money. It was a laundry list of things they shouldn't be doing otherwise the school could get into trouble.
Mostly to stay away from recruits.
I'm gonna look for one of these.
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This is all the Buckeyes' and Chris Day's doing. They gave the NCAA what they wanted. If you can point the finger at Harbaugh sans facts, I sure as hell can point the middle finger at Day.
Your dreaming. And making shit up. You have no credibility because of it.
Other Bug Ten schools have replied to the NCAA investigators - and found Stallions name on tickets- going back 3 years.
As much as Day lives in your head rent free- you look like a complete dufus trying to blame him for your coaching staff’s blatant cheating- especially given you have ZERO evidence to back it up.
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Don't you all remember the page or two notice that used to be may still be in the media guide warning fans and other non donors that they can still be considered boosters even if theynarent using money. It was a laundry list of things they shouldn't be doing otherwise the school could get into trouble.
Mostly to stay away from recruits.
I'm gonna look for one of these.
I used to get a letter every year when I donated.
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yup, me too
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Where did they send your mail the back nine?
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I'm old enough to have licked stamps!
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This could be NCAA show-cause territory.
If the allegations are true, it is absolutely in that category. This isn't a situation where kids did something illegal and the staff chose to ignore it or even covered it up ex post facto.
This is a case of the Michigan staff organizing a conspiracy to completely flaunt the rules and gain an in-game competitive advantage.
If these allegations are true, Harbaugh and the staff committed a premeditated violation. They organized a conspiracy and flaunted an unequivocal rule.
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toast
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fantasy
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When I was a boy my favorite basketball 🏀 team had a really great year. They made it all the way to the Regional Final in Lexington Kentucky where they lost to a young group, a bunch of freshmen mostly. They considered themselves fabulous.
Years later it came out that the team my Buckeyes lost to had a payroll to rival some NBA squads. The wiki article on it says:
"It is one of the largest incidents involving payments to athletes in American collegiate history."
Of course Michigan had to vacate the win, but the boy in me didn't get to see his team in the Final Four. Bo Schembechler's athletic department cheated and stole that from him.
The bottom line is that when Bo Schembechler's athletic department wasn't getting the wins they wanted, they orchestrated and facilitated one of the largest cheating scandals in history.
Michigan football just said "we can top that."
When Michigan football fell behind and wasn't getting the wins they wanted they knew what they needed to do. All they had to do was think of the namesake of Schembechler Hall. They brought in a Michigan "man" to fix it the Michigan way. Their Michigan "man" apparently orchestrated and directed what will go down in history as one of the largest incidents in college football history.
This is worthy of Bo Schembechler's athletic department, it is a fitting successor to the Ed Martin scandal.
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https://www.elevenwarriors.com/forum/college-sports/2023/10/142014/video-evidence-of-stallions-affecting-playcalls
"For the 2nd down play, after Stallions relays the signal from OSU to the DC, the DC says "blitz" a few times, and then the run blitz goes to the exact right spot to stop the play. This is kind of hilarious to me - it's clear how highly involved Stallions was in affecting the game, even though UM's whole strategy right now is to paint him as a lone actor."
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https://www.elevenwarriors.com/forum/college-sports/2023/10/142014/video-evidence-of-stallions-affecting-playcalls
"For the 2nd down play, after Stallions relays the signal from OSU to the DC, the DC says "blitz" a few times, and then the run blitz goes to the exact right spot to stop the play. This is kind of hilarious to me - it's clear how highly involved Stallions was in affecting the game, even though UM's whole strategy right now is to paint him as a lone actor."
But , but. He is just a low level staffer 😂😂
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdFzzpQbC-4
Here is another. At the 1:45 mark.
This low level staffer, standing right behind booger boy, watching the OSU
Bench and telling Hairball “ run the same play”.
Now just imagine how easy these vids are to find for just run of the mill fans.
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Dirty basketball program.
Dirty football program.
Dirty athletic department, just as Bo Schembechler left it.
Dirty institution.
scUM.
I haven't used that epithet in years but the institution is worthy. I'd still hold back out of respect for some posters here but AC seems to have disappeared and the bulk of the Michigan posters here are answering with finger pointing, delusion, and technicalities.
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One thing I miss about the old board was the emoji eating popcorn to denote the poster is entertained and will just sit back and watch.
Just imagine to yourselves that I'm posting that here.
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:stupid:
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:stupid:
You'll never be able to just sit back and watch. The pot stirrer is too strong in you.
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One thing I miss about the old board was the emoji eating popcorn to denote the poster is entertained and will just sit back and watch.
Just imagine to yourselves that I'm posting that here.
:sign0004:
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You'll never be able to just sit back and watch. The pot stirrer is too strong in you.
34,000 posts!!!
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34,000 pots stirred.
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So we've identified the pot stirrer and the stamp licker today
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I haven't licked a stamp in decades
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Dirty basketball program.
Dirty football program.
Dirty athletic department, just as Bo Schembechler left it.
Dirty institution.
scUM.
I haven't used that epithet in years but the institution is worthy. I'd still hold back out of respect for some posters here but AC seems to have disappeared and the bulk of the Michigan posters here are answering with finger pointing, delusion, and technicalities.
Are you buckeye fans serious? Your program was beyond dirty for years. What got covered up about gold pants was a joke. There’s a local business owner in Indepence, Ohio, who is a large donor to the Buckeyes, that had multiple OsU players payroll and someone learned to track their cell phones which were pinging in another state when they were supposedly clocked in, locally in NE Ohio.
the game is dirty and has been dirty. Sign stealing has been something going on forever. Oregon started using picture placards because Ohio state was stealing their signs in the rose bowl.
It’s a joke to read some here act like Michigan is so dirty when their program is one of the furthest from clean.
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Are you buckeye fans serious? Your program was beyond dirty for years. What got covered up about gold pants was a joke. There’s a local business owner in Indepence, Ohio, who is a large donor to the Buckeyes, that had multiple OsU players payroll and someone learned to track their cell phones which were pinging in another state when they were supposedly clocked in, locally in NE Ohio.
the game is dirty and has been dirty. Sign stealing has been something going on forever. Oregon started using picture placards because Ohio state was stealing their signs in the rose bowl.
It’s a joke to read some here act like Michigan is so dirty when their program is one of the furthest from clean.
Yet you can’t name a single item, accusation or integrity issue with the OSU current staff. Because there aren’t any.
We are talking about the current UM staff.
And that’s your take? Look what OSU did in 1962 and 2010?
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Yet you can’t name a single item, accusation or integrity issue with the OSU current staff. Because there aren’t any.
We are talking about the current UM staff.
And that’s your take? Look what OSU did in 1962 and 2010?
Who brought up the Bo Schembechler era? Me? no, a buckeye fan.
And the Tressel era was nearly a decade and it wasn’t clean and many blind eyes were turned by fans and others. The current OSU staff is fine, but ignoring a program’s dirtiness of the past while they’re sitting on a pedestal of innocence is comical.
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this whole ordeal is just too much. seems like every couple months NCAA is going after Jeem. over it.
This 100% is going to be Jeem's last year. Especially if he wins a Natty. Then it's mission accomplished, and why deal with all the extra circular bullshit a college coach has to deal with when you can go to the pros?
My guess is most college head coaches would much rather coach in the NFL. Most of them just never get the offer or opportunity.
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https://twitter.com/DNPSportsShow/status/1716132990542061970?s=20
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C'mon fellas. Save all of this for hate week.
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https://twitter.com/AdamKing10TV/status/1716843872267976805?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1716843872267976805%7Ctwgr%5E1ff3c600eeaf298c6a52a8d01222ef570aa2c6dc%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fcollege%2Fohio-state%2Fboard%2F120%2FContents%2Fanother-video-218785088%2F%3Fpage%3D1
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C'mon fellas. Save all of this for hate week.
This isn’t about the rivalry.
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https://twitter.com/AdamKing10TV/status/1716843872267976805?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1716843872267976805%7Ctwgr%5E1ff3c600eeaf298c6a52a8d01222ef570aa2c6dc%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fcollege%2Fohio-state%2Fboard%2F120%2FContents%2Fanother-video-218785088%2F%3Fpage%3D1
triggered....:043:
OSU changed all their signals before that game...
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triggered....:043:
OSU changed all their signals before that game...
Yet here you see it in action. CJ Stroud look to the side line for the play call, and so does stallions who is standing right beside Jesse Minter, DC.
At the same time that CJ interprets the signals so does stallions, and they communicate the play to the Michigan players on the field. And by the way, the Michigan players on the field never look anywhere, but at stallions for the call. also illustrates players knew as well
you should be proud MDot. Your team knew the play.
Stalions was doing the same thing when UM was on offense. He was standing next to Sherrone Moore, OC.
If you doubt it- there is now plenty of pics and vids online.
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Yet here you see it in action. CJ Stroud look to the side line for the play call, and so does stallions who is standing right beside Jesse Minter, DC.
At the same time that CJ interprets the signals so does stallions, and they communicate the play to the Michigan players on the field. And by the way, the Michigan players on the field never look anywhere, but at stallions for the call.
you should be proud MDot. Your team knew the play.
Stalions was doing the same thing when UM was on offense. He was standing next to Sherrone Moore, OC.
If you doubt it- there is now plenty of pics and vids online.
triggered....:043:
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easy fix to get rid of this whole mess...
repeal the outdated 1994 advanced scouting rule and put mics in the QBs/MLBs helmets like they do in the NFL.
Problems solved.
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triggered....:043:
You like the cheating? I thought more of you than that. True colors. I guess.
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easy fix to get rid of this whole mess...
repeal the outdated 1994 advanced scouting rule and put mics in the QBs/MLBs helmets like they do in the NFL.
Problems solved.
Agreed. But that doesn’t fix the cheating that just took place. Huge competitive advantage on the field.
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You like the cheating? I thought more of you than that. True colors. I guess.
:043:
a) that grainy video proves nothing
b) Ohio State changed all of their signals before that game
c) Ohio State scored a touchdown on that play......gee the signals sure helped Michigan there.
bUt DaH sIgNaLz DeRp dErP DeRp...
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didn't know I could like Deion Sanders anymore than I already did....but I do...
https://twitter.com/CollegeFBPortal/status/1716862515965997086?s=20
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:043:
a) that grainy video proves nothing
b) Ohio State changed all of their signals before that game
c) Ohio State scored a touchdown on that play......gee the signals sure helped Michigan there.
bUt DaH sIgNaLz DeRp dErP DeRp...
1.nothing “grainy” about that video. It is very damning. It proves Stalions was up in Minters pocket- and calling out OSU plays for him
2. OSU tweaked their signals - they had no idea how much time and money Michigan had spent to steal them. Thus- it took UM a half to fully adjust. That’s why the game was close in the first half.
3. Michigan stuffed that play. It was a okay action, and since UM KNEW it was not a run- it was easy to defend.
https://twitter.com/B1G_Ryan/status/1716620535302410356?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1716620535302410356%7Ctwgr%5E0ac9715ae8b65092c9145e1a7fd1de4c5990b437%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fcollege%2Fohio-state%2Fboard%2F120%2FContents%2Fthe-entire-michigan-sign-scandal-may-come-down-to-this-218782222%2F%3Fpage%3D1
so- apparently stallions bought a ticket to watch the Georgia Ohio State game as well, obviously thinking he didn’t need to have the signals to beat TCU. (they never advance, scouted TCU and cheated because they didn’t know who their opponent would be.)
Funny the difference between when they had the other team signals, and when they didn’t, isn’t it?
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Let’s face it,
Your Ann Arbor Astros and cheater cheater booger eater, are busted.
You may, or may not get away with it as far as punishment, but everyone will know that you did it, and everything you did in the last two seasons in this season will have a huge*next to it forever
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It is funny. Despite favoring Michigan’s arch rival, I had a lot of respect for the Michigan program.
In fact, ironically, this year and a couple times last year, when I watch them, I thought to myself “ man these guys are good. It’s like they know the play that’s coming at them”
Turns out they did.
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C'mon fellas. Save all of this for hate week.
nah, let it run
there will be plenty for hate week
cam always rerun it again
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didn't know I could like Deion Sanders anymore than I already did....but I do...
Deion knows it's tough to stop Stanford's 2nd half offense
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easy fix to get rid of this whole mess...
repeal the outdated 1994 advanced scouting rule and put mics in the QBs/MLBs helmets like they do in the NFL.
Problems solved.
Rhule was asked about this in his press conference yesterday
He said he wasn't going to comment on the allegations because he didn't know much about it
said no one from the Big Ten or NCAA had contacted him.
but, he did say it was crazy that they didn't have radios in the helmets
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https://twitter.com/CFBNerds/status/1716861662563582144?t=vqsQ6TxlSoDeqxXnAzOvJA&s=19
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https://twitter.com/TheHerd/status/1716875472641098020?s=20
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I'm going to go out on a limb, and guess that Joel klatt also doesn't think anything should come with this
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https://twitter.com/TheHerd/status/1716875472641098020?s=20
Such a stupid take.
If your signals are bad enough to be figured out on game day by the opposing team that you’re fucking problem.
But when you send people into your stadium to record your plays and signs and have plenty of time to study them ahead of time, so you clearly know what the other team is running, that is huge cheating and there’s no place for that in the game. It’s disgusting and people defending it are disgusting
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Such a stupid take.
If your signals are bad enough to be figured out on game day by the opposing team that you’re fucking problem.
But when you send people into your stadium to record your plays and signs and have plenty of time to study them ahead of time, so you clearly know what the other team is running, that is huge cheating and there’s no place for that in the game. It’s disgusting and people defending it are disgusting
Imagine if people got this upset when players were paid for fake jobs to ensure they went to a certain school. Those things didn’t impact outcomes or successes of programs at all.
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Imagine if people got this upset when players were paid for fake jobs to ensure they went to a certain school. Those things didn’t impact outcomes or successes of programs at all.
Agreed. This is the first, only, and worst case I have ever seen in memory that actually affects very specifically the outcome of a game.
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Agreed. This is the first, only, and worst case I have ever seen in memory that actually affects very specifically the outcome of a game.
Do you think no one else steals signs?
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Do you think no one else steals signs?
I KNOW the team I cheer for does not send people to opponent’s games to tape their signs, and study them. I know they don’t know the opponent play before it is ran.
do I think teams, during game day try to understand and interpret the signs of their opponent? Of course. But that won’t get most people super far. In order to make that very effective you need to study, which of the two or three signal colors are being paid attention to, what are the trends, what did they change to the last game, etc..
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You’re right. No chance osu ever did this:
https://www.heartlandcollegesports.com/2023/04/14/urban-meyer-had-a-coach-on-staff-at-ohio-state-that-watched-michigan-year-round-thats-all-he-did/
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Like I said in the basketball thread. College football and basketball are just tv properties now.
It's why when the Adidas scandal broke, Kansas = no tourney ban; Louisville = no tourney ban; Arizona = no tourney ban. Oklahoma State = tourney ban
The NCAA might come back after the fact and make Michigan take down some banners, or Harbaugh forfeit some wins. But do you honestly think ESPN paid all this money for the CFP to see Michigan be banned from it?
Hell no. I can say with 99% certainty that whatever comes from this, Michigan will not be punished in any way that hurts the tv networks
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I haven't licked a stamp in decades
Or a Beer Cart Attendee for that matter
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You’re right. No chance osu ever did this:
https://www.heartlandcollegesports.com/2023/04/14/urban-meyer-had-a-coach-on-staff-at-ohio-state-that-watched-michigan-year-round-thats-all-he-did/
Yes. He watched their games on tv and their film.
He did not go to their games and record their play signals. I can’t believe you’re trying to make a comparison.
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Or a Beer Cart Attendee for that matter
Please, the Beer Cart Attendee is her mother, call her the Cart Girl.
So two summers I worked at a Country Club as a bartender. One of our cart girls quit to take an internship. They only used one in the fall, so rather than hire one for the final 6 weeks of summer, they just had other employees rotate through. You want to see some pissed off rich dudes? Have me roll up on a bar cart.
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Yes. He watched their games on tv and their film.
He did not go to their games and record their play signals. I can’t believe you’re trying to make a comparison.
You don’t know that. You literally have zero proof of that. Michigan played an angle to win. That’s the comparisons I’m making because you’re acting like OsU never is in the gray area. If you truly believe that, I’m sure you think Tressel is teaching choir practice every night while Urban is teaching marriage counseling at his church.
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Are you buckeye fans serious?
So everyone's the same,huh? But if you want to go back to Fielding Yost who used stevedores and constrution workers on the roster who never saw the inside of a library,okay
This from JEEM Himself
https://www.espn.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&sportCat=ncf&id=2966536
by Pat Forde
But here's what nobody is discussing: whether Harbaugh spoke the truth when he called out Michigan for admitting "borderline guys" and for steering athletes toward softer majors than the general student population.
(https://a.espncdn.com/photo/2007/0726/ncf_a_harbaugh1_195.jpg)
The hard numbers seem to be on Joltin' Jim's side.
All it takes to see that is a scan of the 2007 Michigan media guide. Only 30 players have listed majors, and 19 of them are pursuing degrees in something called "general studies." That's 20 percent of the team, and 63 percent of the players who have declared a major.
Yet a university spokesman said this week that less than 1 percent of the undergraduate student body is in the general studies degree program. The spokesman said there are fewer than 200 general studies students out of an undergrad population of nearly 25,000.
And that's not all. Only one junior has declared a major, according to the guide (in movement science). In 18 years of covering college athletics, I've never seen virtually an entire junior class without a major.
And it wasn't only Buckeye fans
Notre Dame’s first win against Michigan came in 1909, a win that caused the Detroit Free Press to write “Eleven Fighting Irishmen wrecked the Yost machine this afternoon. Three sons of Erin, individually and collectively representing the University of Notre Dame, not only beat the Michigan team, but dashed some of Michigan’s greatest hopes and shattered Michigan’s fairest dreams.” Yost, ever gracious in defeat, cancelled the next year’s game and then refused to schedule Notre Dame for the rest of his career at Michigan. Which meant that Notre Dame didn’t play Michigan again until 1942, when Yost was gone and Elmer Layden and wartime restrictions put the local rivals together once more.
;D
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gotta love the cope from OSU fans that can't take Michigan beating their dicks in 2 years in a row.
If Jeem does it to them again and born on 3rd base Ryan is 0-fer-3 be prepared to never hear the end of the crying.
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Like I said in the basketball thread. College football and basketball are just tv properties now.
It's why when the Adidas scandal broke, Kansas = no tourney ban; Louisville = no tourney ban; Arizona = no tourney ban. Oklahoma State = tourney ban
The NCAA might come back after the fact and make Michigan take down some banners, or Harbaugh forfeit some wins. But do you honestly think ESPN paid all this money for the CFP to see Michigan be banned from it?
Hell no. I can say with 99% certainty that whatever comes from this, Michigan will not be punished in any way that hurts the tv networks
you're probably right, and if little comes from this entire fiasco the crying will never end from the Buckeyes.
Ryan Day and that fan base might be on suicide watch if Jeem pummels them for a 3rd year in a row.
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Look me up when we win 4 games in 20 yrs with one chicken out
Keep Ryan Cooper, I mean Day, long enough and you might just find out...
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You don’t know that. You literally have zero proof of that. Michigan played an angle to win. That’s the comparisons I’m making because you’re acting like OsU never is in the gray area. If you truly believe that, I’m sure you think Tressel is teaching choir practice every night while Urban is teaching marriage counseling at his church.
Keep deflecting SM.
I know you are better than that. Yes, and I emphasize the word if, it proves out that this guy was stealing, signals in advance of games, and giving Michigan, super good insight into what players were being run before they were actually run, I know you’re not in favor of that.
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gotta love the cope from OSU fans that can't take Michigan beating their dicks in 2 years in a row.
Look me up when we win 4 games in 20 yrs with one chicken out
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Keep Ryan Cooper, I mean Day, long enough and you might just find out...
Booger 1-6 in Bowls and 2-5 vs tOSU your takes are worse than your math - you an M Grad?
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gotta love the cope from OSU fans that can't take Michigan beating their dicks in 2 years in a row.
If Jeem does it to them again and born on 3rd base Ryan is 0-fer-3 be prepared to never hear the end of the crying.
Just stop. Booger eater cheater cheater has the worst winning percentage against Ohio State than Ryan does versus Michigan.
Quit defending the blatant cheating. It’s making you look like a real a-hole
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So everyone's the same,huh?
Ha. Very fair to call that out as it’s not fair to group every like I did. Sooner or later we need to catch a game together in NE Ohio.
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If I can afford it - freakin' Browns games are 50 bucks to park at the MUNY lot. Hope your health is well don't let the blood pressure get to you(in this thread)
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https://twitter.com/FoxSportsRadio/status/1716882144432435270?s=20
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Booger 1-6 in Bowls and 2-5 vs tOSU your takes are worse than your math - you an M Grad?
what's his record vs Ryan Cooper when born on 3rd base is coaching a team comprised of his players and not Urbs' players?
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Keep deflecting SM.
I know you are better than that. Yes, and I emphasize the word if, it proves out that this guy was stealing, signals in advance of games, and giving Michigan, super good insight into what players were being run before they were actually run, I know you’re not in favor of that.
I’m not deflecting. I’ll be the first to say, I believe they were stealing signs. Did they do it in a gray area? Sounds like it. Im betting that Stalions was sending people to games so it wasn’t actually staff going, which is the gray area. In my opinion, it’s a dated rule. Technology today and 1994 look nothing alike and the rule needs to be revisited, if anything for clarity, which will also bring in the conversation about using technology in helmets to avoid this without garbage excuses of warranties on helmets, when high school programs are even using them and im guessing high school programs done bring in the revenue that college programs do.
lastly, im not deflecting, im pointing on the hypocrisy of those acting like their program is holier than thou. If anything, I learned what osu put up with during the peak Tressel years. When your program is at or near the top, everyone comes after you to find every little gray area and all programs have them. Those acting like or believing their program doesn’t, are simply blind or foolish.
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If I can afford it - freakin' Browns games are 50 bucks to park at the MUNY lot. Hope your health is well don't let the blood pressure get to you(in this thread)
I know it’s crazy. I’m on year two with no visits to the Muny lot. It’s cheaper and I feel way better on Mondays. Health is getting there. Diet, sleeping and avoidance of alcohol were the only options. I’m learning the brain is one of the slowest healing parts of the body. Don’t let HB hold that against me 😜
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what's his record vs Ryan Cooper when born on 3rd base is coaching a team comprised of his players and not Urbs' players?
Maybe but his bro helped him out with coordinators and I told you he portaled well and you said no on the O-Line - care to look the starters up.I'm not sold on Day
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pic is of a low-level Ohio State staffer who apparently might've been doing the same thing this Stallions fellow was doing...
(https://mgoblog.com/sites/default/files/users/user35127/2023-10/Screenshot%202023-10-24%20at%204.40.27%20PM.png)
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I know it’s crazy. I’m on year two with no visits to the Muny lot. It’s cheaper and I feel way better on Mondays. Health is getting there. Diet, sleeping and avoidance of alcohol were the only options. I’m learning the brain is one of the slowest healing parts of the body. Don’t let HB hold that against me 😜
Sleep is a biggie and i never get enough.One nite I don't hear thunder or firetrucks - next nite a leaf hits the roof I'm up
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what's his record vs Ryan Cooper when born on 3rd base is coaching a team comprised of his players and not Urbs' players?
You mean Ryan Day, the current best winning percentage among active coacheddagainst rank teams? Versus cheater cheater, booger eater, who hasn’t won a fucking thing yet. What’s his record against rank teams? What’s his bowl record? What’s his record in college football playoff?
Stop slurping the cheater dude. It is very unbecoming.
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pic is of a low-level Ohio State staffer who apparently might've been doing the same thing this Stallions fellow was doing...
If you want to walk it back i never made a comment regarding stealing signs - haven't read one link. But the fights and and UZI Smith - take the wins off the board - lying and lack of institutional control - or reinstate Ohio State's in 2011. Can't have it both ways
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I’m not deflecting. I’ll be the first to say, I believe they were stealing signs. Did they do it in a gray area? Sounds like it. Im betting that Stalions was sending people to games so it wasn’t actually staff going, which is the gray area. In my opinion, it’s a dated rule. Technology today and 1994 look nothing alike and the rule needs to be revisited, if anything for clarity, which will also bring in the conversation about using technology in helmets to avoid this without garbage excuses of warranties on helmets, when high school programs are even using them and im guessing high school programs done bring in the revenue that college programs do.
lastly, im not deflecting, im pointing on the hypocrisy of those acting like their program is holier than thou. If anything, I learned what osu put up with during the peak Tressel years. When your program is at or near the top, everyone comes after you to find every little gray area and all programs have them. Those acting like or believing their program doesn’t, are simply blind or foolish.
It is definitely A dated rule. On that we can agree. And it would be easily solved.
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pic is of a low-level Ohio State staffer who apparently might've been doing the same thing this Stallions fellow was doing...
(https://mgoblog.com/sites/default/files/users/user35127/2023-10/Screenshot%202023-10-24%20at%204.40.27%20PM.png)
Talk about grasping at straws. Making shit up out of the blue. Wow. Total delusion.
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Brent Venebales and his defensive staff at Clemson were notorious for stealing signs...Ryan Cooper even publicly cried about it
https://www.si.com/college/2020/11/06/clemson-signal-stealing-dabo-swinney-daily-cover
”Seems to always know exactly what the other team is doing in terms of the plays that they’re running, each play,” Day said of Clemson DC Brent Venables. “Seems to call the right defense into that play a lot. Why that is, I don’t really know. But I can tell you he’s been doing it for a really long time.”
One coach termed it this way: “They are incredible at it. When you play them, it’s not an even playing field, they have so many [analysts] who are able to do that.”
“If they don’t have a plan for Clemson’s signal stealers, then Clemson is going to know every play,” said one of the coaches. “They should be in the KGB stealing communications, they’re that good.”
The unknown element of the stealing also nudges into a gray area that makes for compelling fodder. “To me, it’s like in baseball watching a third-base coach and trying to figure out a bunt or a steal sign,” said one of the opposing assistants. “To me, it’s the game within the game.”
Everyone does it. Jeem's low-level staffer just got the whistle blown on him. Beyond naive to think he was the only one doing this shit.
How about we just get mics in the QBs and MLBs helmets like the NFL and everyone can stop crying about it...
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Yeah, nobody is debating that the rule can probably go away. And I'm guessing will
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Yeah, nobody is debating that the rule can probably go away. And I'm guessing will
there is no rule against the sign stealing, so even if they go to the mics the issue would still be....the 1994 rule which banned advanced in person scouting.
that rule wasn't even set up to prevent sign stealing. the rule was put in place because the poorer schools were bitching up a storm about not having the money in the football budget to send staffers/scouts to future opponents' games like the money printing helmets had. there was no $7 billion tv contracts in 1994. Vanderbilt and Purdue weren't getting $70-100mm a year tv checks. Well, they are now. Which means....probably don't need that rule anymore.
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This has certainly helped OSU fans cope with the fact that their NC hopes were dashed in the 1983 formatted season
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I didn't know I was coping,infact I didn't know about it at all
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If you want to walk it back i never made a comment regarding stealing signs - haven't read one link. But the fights and and UZI Smith - take the wins off the board - lying and lack of institutional control - or reinstate Ohio State's in 2011. Can't have it both ways
Ohio State absolutely should have all their wins reinstated for 2010. Tatgate was some bullshit. NIL should be retroactive. Go back and apply it to before- the players should've always been able to get paid if you ask me. The reason why Tatgate blew up into a huge scandal is Tressel got caught lying to the NCAA. And he only got caught lying because the dude who was giving free tats and buying memorabilia from OSU players got pinched by the Feds in a drug trafficking ring. NCAA would've never found shit out otherwise.
NCAA can take Bush's Heisman away or vacate Ohio State wins in 2010- but everyone knows Bush won the Heisman and Ohio State dominated the B1G in 2010 and went 12-1. Just because the NCAA said it didn't happen doesn't mean shit. We all saw it- it happened.
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I didn't know I was coping,infact I didn't know about it at all
Which step is denial?
The Hall of Fame Bowl is here for you
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ELA I haven't the foggiest really I can't deny what i don't know.Why aren't you bitching about howe your boys got hosed in the tunnel - and they did
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rule made sense when yearly TV payout to the B1G in 1990s was $10 million. Look at the yearly payout to the B1G 2023-2029. It's 120x. $10,000,000 in 1996 adjusted for inflation is $19,934,520.73. That's still a very far cry from $1.2 billion. The poors can afford to send scouts to opponents games now....
(https://i.ibb.co/Gt9HvFf/Screen-Shot-2023-10-24-at-5-56-20-PM.png)
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ELA I haven't the foggiest really I can't deny what i don't know.Why aren't you bitching about howe your boys got hosed in the tunnel - and they did
https://www.cfb51.com/big-ten/what-if-season-simulation-(1983)/
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Brent Venebales and his defensive staff at Clemson were notorious for stealing signs...Ryan Cooper even publicly cried about it
https://www.si.com/college/2020/11/06/clemson-signal-stealing-dabo-swinney-daily-cover
”Seems to always know exactly what the other team is doing in terms of the plays that they’re running, each play,” Day said of Clemson DC Brent Venables. “Seems to call the right defense into that play a lot. Why that is, I don’t really know. But I can tell you he’s been doing it for a really long time.”
One coach termed it this way: “They are incredible at it. When you play them, it’s not an even playing field, they have so many [analysts] who are able to do that.”
“If they don’t have a plan for Clemson’s signal stealers, then Clemson is going to know every play,” said one of the coaches. “They should be in the KGB stealing communications, they’re that good.”
The unknown element of the stealing also nudges into a gray area that makes for compelling fodder. “To me, it’s like in baseball watching a third-base coach and trying to figure out a bunt or a steal sign,” said one of the opposing assistants. “To me, it’s the game within the game.”
Everyone does it. Jeem's low-level staffer just got the whistle blown on him. Beyond naive to think he was the only one doing this shit.
How about we just get mics in the QBs and MLBs helmets like the NFL and everyone can stop crying about it...
Yep. And Ohio State used a huddle. The last time they played Clemson in the college football playoff. And what was the result? Ohio State blew them off the field.
https://www.cfb51.com/big-ten/what-if-season-simulation-(1983)/
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You mean Ryan Day, the current best winning percentage among active coacheddagainst rank teams? Versus cheater cheater, booger eater, who hasn’t won a fucking thing yet. What’s his record against rank teams? What’s his bowl record? What’s his record in college football playoff?
Stop slurping the cheater dude. It is very unbecoming.
I believe the booger eater has won back to back B1G titles and is the betting favorite to win his 3rd. Which if happens- would be 3x the amount of B1G titles as Cryin' Ryan Cooper- and be 3 straight W's vs Mr. Born On 3rd Base.
Not the biggest Jeem fan. Annoyed with the NCAA. It's pretty obvious they have a hard on for the guy.
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Huh? day has already won 2 big ten titles.
Andy college football playoff game. A couple of them.
Crickets….
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Huh? day has already won 2 big ten titles.
Andy college football playoff game. A couple of them.
Crickets….
My bad, I thought Day only had 1 B1G title. Forgot about the wretched COVID season- for obvious reasons as it was a disaster for Michigan. I've blanked that season from my memory, apologies.
I am just trolling a bit, I think Day is a heckuva coach.
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Sleep is a biggie and i never get enough.One nite I don't hear thunder or firetrucks - next nite a leaf hits the roof I'm up
We built our house in 2017, moved in that July. Those first two winters, until it finally settled, if there was any wind, I could not sleep. You heard everything from the master bedroom
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ESPN's FPI gives Michigan a 49.9% chance to beat Penn State, meaning FPI favors Penn State.
Meanwhile, S&P+ has Michigan ranked #1 overall and Penn State 12th.
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Michigan has been tops or at the top at every one of these every week...schedule is what it is- but they are absolutely crushing the life out of everyone they play right now
https://twitter.com/statsowar/status/1716454485298671768?s=20
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I could not sleep. You heard everything from the master bedroom
Well of course the two of you in the the master bedroom the 1st couple of years - that is to be expected
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We built our house in 2017, moved in that July. Those first two winters, until it finally settled, if there was any wind, I could not sleep. You heard everything from the master bedroom
I’m sort of there. We moved into our new build in January. Thankfully my wife lets me sleep with earplugs in and she unfortunately deals with loud sounds, which are normally kids up.
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Well of course the two of you in the the master bedroom that is to be expectedWell of course the two of you in the the master bedroom the 1st couple of years - that is to be expected
Nah, first year in the 2nd house...with 2 kids. I barely saw her. I interacted more with you degenerates.
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JJ McCarthy now the betting favorite in Vegas to win the Heisman. Don't think he'll get the #'s to do it, but if he plays well vs Penn State and Ohio State he'll get an invite to New York. Doesn't even necessarily have to light it on fire, just needs to take care of the ball and play well and get W's. He's just not going to put up the insane stats to win the award that it requires.
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Nah, first year in the 2nd house...with 2 kids. I barely saw her. I interacted more with you degenerates.
Nothing says you care quite like a post
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We both are 2002 HS graduates, and she directs the HS musical. So I can't think of who that awful T Mobile ad is more targeted to, and she also can't stand it
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I’m sort of there. We moved into our new build in January. Thankfully my wife lets me sleep with earplugs in and she unfortunately deals with loud sounds, which are normally kids up.
Our house is 30 years old, and during a thunderstorm it shakes like dice on a Vegas crap table. Our old house in St Paul didn’t even think about moving.
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https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38736903/michigan-staffer-bought-tickets-non-big-ten-games
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https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38736903/michigan-staffer-bought-tickets-non-big-ten-games
Source: Jim Tressel set up fake jobs to pay his players in order to land the top recruits in the nation in order to win a national championship. Per a source, Tressel only connected the players with high end donors that owned their own companies and could make the jobs look real.
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Source: Jim Tressel set up fake jobs to pay his players in order to land the top recruits in the nation in order to win a national championship. Per a source, Tressel only connected the players with high end donors that owned their own companies and could make the jobs look real.
Source: Bullshit.
try as you might this is not about Ohio State. This is about your team getting caught blatantly cheating. You can deflect all you want but you’re going to have to internally deal with it.
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https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38736903/michigan-staffer-bought-tickets-non-big-ten-games
ESPN claims sources at 12 of the other 13 B1G schools have records of Stalions buying tickets for non-M games. Also the last two SECCG's and other non-B1G games.
This includes four tOSU games, three in which Stalions bought tickets to non-tOSU stadiums across from the visitor's sideline when tOSU was visiting and the recent tOSU/PSU game to which Stalions bought tickets opposite both the tOSU and the PSU sidelines.
I've hedged all my posts with the qualifier of "if the allegations are true" but the chances of ESPN making all of that up completely seem beyond remote at this point.
The attempt to deflect would be childish even if situations were comparable but they aren't. This is premeditated cheating by the Michigan staff on an insane scale.
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Georgia writer:
https://twitter.com/BrooksAustinBA/status/1716863423995101597?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1716863423995101597%7Ctwgr%5Eef1d2c92c304ea6b04b810067dfe891001981ee6%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.elevenwarriors.com%2Fforum%2Fcollege-sports%2F2023%2F10%2F142051%2Fttun-scandal-part-6
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https://twitter.com/Andy_Staples/status/1717000265704886690?t=iWsd5GOniDS8f6FW8bspmg&s=19
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And you guys wonder why shots are taken at OsU fans on this board. You continue to pile on and post random tweets from irrelevant people and articles about “sources.”
I would think a couple competent people would have learned their lesson about trustworthiness about media until all the facts come out. Clearly you didn’t learn your lesson since 2020.
If facts come out that rules were broken and there’s punishment, then reasonable Michigan fans will take it on the chin and move on. That being said, continuing to call people childish and deflectors because a few of you are acting like bitter adults shoving kids faces in the mud and some people want to actually wait for all the facts to play out while pointing out hypocrisy, then so be it.
When you say statements like “caught blatantly cheating” you simply sound like the emotional narrow minded of the world that convict people before hearing all the facts because the media told you too.
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And you guys wonder why shots are taken at OsU fans on this board. You continue to pile on and post random tweets from irrelevant people and articles about “sources.”
I would think a couple competent people would have learned their lesson about trustworthiness about media until all the facts come out. Clearly you didn’t learn your lesson since 2020.
If facts come out that rules were broken and there’s punishment, then reasonable Michigan fans will take it on the chin and move on. That being said, continuing to call people childish and deflectors because a few of you are acting like bitter adults shoving kids faces in the mud and some people want to actually wait for all the facts to play out while pointing out hypocrisy, then so be it.
When you say statements like “caught blatantly cheating” you simply sound like the emotional narrow minded of the world that convict people before hearing all the facts because the media told you too.
I'm honestly not sure what your argument is here.
First, I've tried to hedge all my posts with "if these allegations are true" or words to that effect. If I skipped that in a post please forgive my oversight and consider this a blanket "if these allegations are true".
Second, that said, it appears to me that the evidence fairly overwhelming. From all appearances, a Michigan staffer paid for tickets in I think we are now up to close to 20 stadiums to scout and steal signs. This includes 12 of the other 13 B1G stadiums, two SECCG's, and several others.
Then we see the staffer who coordinated this standing next to the Michigan OC when Michigan is on offense and next to the Michigan DC when Michigan is on defense with Harbaugh's involvement.
Maybe this is all fake but at this point that seems highly unlikely.
If it is not fake this is premeditated cheating on an unprecedented scale.
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https://twitter.com/Andy_Staples/status/1717000265704886690?t=iWsd5GOniDS8f6FW8bspmg&s=19
Tennessee fans are blushing, knowing that Michigan viewed them as a potential CFP opponent.
That MSU win over UM in 2021 actually becomes continuously more impressive. Michigan is 0-2 when not being able to steal signals, since they started this cheating program. But that is the one game where are the known opponent beat them.
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Tennessee fans are blushing, knowing that Michigan viewed them as a potential CFP opponent.
That MSU win over UM in 2021 actually becomes continuously more impressive. Michigan is 0-2 when not being able to steal signals, since they started this cheating program. But that is the one game where are the known opponent beat them.
I think it is 0-1 because Stalions bought tickets to the 2021 SECCG so they did steal UGA's.
Allegedly.
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I mean that's just a good game.. I can see why a rogue Michigan staffer on 50k a year would go watch that game on his own dime
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https://twitter.com/B1G_Ryan/status/1716997671871721809?t=GcUY8YsPciYknSHgqMTXqw&s=19
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Cheer up, Buckeye fans. Some of us just wish Michigan was interested in stealing our signals.
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I figure this is why Michigan played UGA so tough in the semis.
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And you guys wonder why shots are taken at OsU fans on this board. You continue to pile on and post random tweets from irrelevant people and articles about “sources.”
I would think a couple competent people would have learned their lesson about trustworthiness about media until all the facts come out. Clearly you didn’t learn your lesson since 2020.
If facts come out that rules were broken and there’s punishment, then reasonable Michigan fans will take it on the chin and move on. That being said, continuing to call people childish and deflectors because a few of you are acting like bitter adults shoving kids faces in the mud and some people want to actually wait for all the facts to play out while pointing out hypocrisy, then so be it.
When you say statements like “caught blatantly cheating” you simply sound like the emotional narrow minded of the world that convict people before hearing all the facts because the media told you too.
I am sorry SM- that this has me so flabbergasted.
First- I have always had great respect for you as a poster here. Your views have, IMHO, been pretty fair and balanced. That goes all the way back to Tattoo Gate and the whole Zach Smith/ Urban Meyer fiasco. I specifically remember you being reasonable and not piling on.
Those times were so disappointing and embarrassing as a OSU fan.
I didn’t care all that much about the Mazi Smith thing. I may have poked the bear a time or two- but I never thought it was a huge deal. Same with recent “ cheeseburger “ incident - my only thing there was I wanted it made clear that Harbaugh was not honest.
But this thing- advance scouting to get the opponents play calls. It just seems so unfair and has such a huge impact on a game. Especially a game where 2 teams are evenly matched.
I have been rewatching the 22 game v OSU. ( I didn’t bother w 21- UM just ran them over )
Now as I watch the 22 game- it looks REALLY obvious that Michigan had a a good idea what OSU was running- on offense and defense- in the first half. By the second half- UM was completely dialed into The OSU signals. Michigan dominated the second half. Not physically- they just beat OSU to the spot.
Go back and watch it. With an open mind.
Plus- just look at Michigan’s record over this period both in Win/ Loss and against the spread.
So that’s why People are so worked up. They see this as an enormous in game, play to play advantage that Michigan has had.
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Is it illegal (against the stated rules) to scout opponents and record signs?
Does everyone do it?
This fellow got caught, apparently, but how many never got noticed?
Is it possible on the field to adjust defenses quickly enough even if the sideline has the offenses sign coming in?
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No one has been caught. We don't know who sat in those seats the Michigan staffer bought. If he was employed by the University of Michigan at the time and attended the game, its a violation. If someone not employed by Michigan attended the game, its not a violation. The notion that whomever used those tickets automatically became a Michigan employee is laughable. What if he put them up for sale on StubHub?
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Note I said apparently.
So, it's a rules violation IF he was employed by UM? Does anyone know the specific rule?
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https://youtu.be/nSRKhDe-igE?si=eivue6zmGZNOhAaI
Just take 5 minutes with an open mind, and listen to this.
Temp- you’re so far off. We now have evidence that Michigan paid people to film the signs of future opponents,
Both in the Big Ten and potential CFP opponents
We have substantial video proof that this “low level staffer” was in your defensive coordinator’s ear when the other team had the ball and your office of coordinator’s ear when Michigan had the ball
Cincy, just look at the video that’s been posted in this thread of this guy, watching the other teams, signals, and immediately calling the defense. It isn’t even a question and how you can deny it is because you’re invested in something and you’re missing the obvious.
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Note I said apparently.
So, it's a rules violation IF he was employed by UM? Does anyone know the specific rule?
That’s hogwash, and he knows it. If the Michigan guy bought the tickets and gave them to somebody whose job it was to film, the other teams, signals, which we now know to be a fact, it’s against the rules, and clearly a breach of integrity of the game.
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If the individual was paid by the University of Michigan as a contractor it would be a violation. If it's just some buddy the staffer knows who was not paid by the University of Michigan, good luck with that. If the cost of the tickets was reimbursed by the University of Michigan there might be a potential violation. I say potential because the visiting team does get tickets and some of those are routinely given away.
Its been reported elsewhere that the NCAA will be visiting Michigan tomorrow to discuss the issue so Michigan appears to be cooperating.
Michigan football: 144 years, 0 wins vacated.
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Would it be true that it would be difficult to signal in the plays to the defense in a no huddle offense?
Does anyone know the specific rule this would violate?
(There was a specific rule with the Astros stealing signs, it's not that you can't do it of course on the field, you can't do it from the stands.)
I'm not invested in any position beyond trying to understand this.
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Would it be true that it would be difficult to signal in the plays to the defense in a no huddle offense?
Does anyone know the specific rule this would violate?
(There was a specific rule with the Astros stealing signs, it's not that you can't do it of course on the field, you can't do it from the stands.)
I'm not invested in any position beyond trying to understand this.
Yes, in a no huddle offense- in college football. The only way to get the plate in is with some sort of sign or signaling from the sideline.
By going to a huddle, you eliminate any real potential to run and up tempo offense
In the NFL, they just use electronics and connect to the quarterbacks helmet but that is outlawed in college football. I am pretty convinced this whole fiasco will change that.
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Yeah, just as in baseball the pitcher now usually gets the sign electronically.
I presume this was because of the Astros' deal.
I guess a savvy defense could pick out the QB's audibles in no huddle.
The Dawgs got called once for a simulated snap call from their D, which is interesting to me.
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If the individual was paid by the University of Michigan as a contractor it would be a violation. If it's just some buddy the staffer knows who was not paid by the University of Michigan, good luck with that.
Your attempt to make a distinction between "done by a Michigan staffer" and "done at the behest of a Michigan staffer" is laughable.
If the cost of the tickets was reimbursed by the University of Michigan there might be a potential violation. I say potential because the visiting team does get tickets and some of those are routinely given away.
Michigan was NOT the visiting team.
Michigan football: 144 years, 0 wins vacated.
Enjoy saying this while you can.
Your institution already committed one of the most egregious violations in the history of college basketball. Now they have also committed one of the most egregious violations in the history of college football.
Dirty basketball program.
Dirty football program.
Dirty athletic department.
Dirty institution.
scUM.
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I mean that's just a good game.. I can see why a rogue Michigan staffer on 50k a year would go watch that game on his own dime
apparently this guy is a super-fan loser and had been buying tickets and going to every Michigan game since the mid 2000s. he went from super-fan stalker going to every game and showing up to the teams hotels to cheer on the players to unpaid volunteer at Michigan summer camps to eventually getting hired as a low level staffer making $55k a year.
apparently he has made a bunch of money in real estate and is only working in college football for Michigan because it's an obsession, not doing it for the money. he's apparently got lotta dough already.
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That cracks me up.
“ we didn’t break the rules, we hired someone to do it for us”
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https://youtu.be/nSRKhDe-igE?si=eivue6zmGZNOhAaI
Just take 5 minutes with an open mind, and listen to this.
Temp- you’re so far off. We now have evidence that Michigan paid people to film the signs of future opponents,
Both in the Big Ten and potential CFP opponents
We have substantial video proof that this “low level staffer” was in your defensive coordinator’s ear when the other team had the ball and your office of coordinator’s ear when Michigan had the ball
Cincy, just look at the video that’s been posted in this thread of this guy, watching the other teams, signals, and immediately calling the defense. It isn’t even a question and how you can deny it is because you’re invested in something and you’re missing the obvious.
Lmao. Yeah, no. Valenti's rants are hilarious because he's so ridiculous, but not listening to him on anything Michigan related- he can't be objective on Michigan for half a second. And he also used to be better when he was with Terry Foster, his new bitchboy sidekick fatfvck Rico is somehow 1000 times more retarded than Valenti is- which seems like that should be impossible- but it's actually true.
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That cracks me up.
“ we didn’t break the rules, we hired someone to do it for us”
NCAA is going to have to prove that Jeem/Michigan knew about all of it and that they were the ones funding it. if there is no proof of that- the staffer is the one that is going to take all of the bullets.
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That cracks me up.
“ we didn’t break the rules, we hired someone to do it for us”
Distinction without a difference.
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NCAA is going to have to prove that Jeem/Michigan knew about all of it and that they were the ones funding it. if there is no proof of that- the staffer is the one that is going to take all of the bullets.
Nope.
The standard is knew or should have known.
Stalions was calling tOSU's plays on the first drive last year and Harbaugh was right there. You can't do that without advance knowledge.
Should have known, guilty.
Dirty basketball program.
Dirty football program.
Dirty athletic department.
Dirty institution.
scUM.
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apparently this guy is a super-fan loser and had been buying tickets and going to every Michigan game since the mid 2000s. he went from super-fan stalker going to every game and showing up to the teams hotels to cheer on the players to unpaid volunteer at Michigan summer camps to eventually getting hired as a low level staffer making $55k a year.
apparently he has made a bunch of money in real estate and is only working in college football for Michigan because it's an obsession, not doing it for the money. he's apparently got lotta dough already.
Yeah- he can be a slappy at times.
To his credit- he is tougher on MSU than anyone. In this video- he calls MSU a complete embarrassment.
As to the Michigan issue- he takes a very fair approach to all of the narratives coming out of the UM fans/ slappies, and BURIES them, easily, one by one:
- this guy is a rogue actor/ lone wolf
-It doesn’t give Michigan an advantage
-Harbaugh didn’t know
- everyone does it
-the NCAA is out to get Harbaugh/ witch hunt
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Well this thread hasn't aged well - enjoy the last brilliant autumn days and Indian Summer rays of the season. Toss back a few Oktoberfests maybe some rum/bourbon with cider and cinnamon around a toasty fall fire before old man winter starts kicking us in the nads for 4 months.Got all off season to whizz in each others Wheaties.Play Ball!!! speaking of which I need to pay some attention to the Fall Classic coming up
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Nope.
The standard is knew or should have known.
Stalions was calling tOSU's plays on the first drive last year and Harbaugh was right there. You can't do that without advance knowledge.
Should have known, guilty.
Dirty basketball program.
Dirty football program.
Dirty athletic department.
Dirty institution.
scUM.
Lol. Ok.
So Jeem should've known every single thing this Stallions fellow ever did? Jeem should've been looking at all his credit card statements, emails, texts, phone calls, etc. on the daily. Got it.
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So that’s why People are so worked up. They see this as an enormous in game, play to play advantage that Michigan has had.
I was going to respond this morning, but the kiddos had me running circles. MB's posts are exactly what irk the hell out of me. It's juvenile and it's not how this board was for many years. When OSU was constantly in the spotlight, posters here didn't run around and call each other's programs cheaters and scumbags. Apparently gone are the days that Gator and Badge were the guiding light to just great atmosphere here where disagreements still centered on respect. This board has changed as much as the game of college football. It's sad. We should just close up shop and go to twitter as it's similar interactions.
What i was going to type up this morning was this. I fully believe that Michigan was doing this. How it started I have no idea. Everyone calling Michigan cheaters and saying they're the worst of the worst is where I simply laugh and why i go to hypocrisy statements. If you're saying they're cheaters, you're stating no one else is doing this and they're the only ones outside the lines. Many former players have come out and said sign stealing has been a thing for a long time.
In life, people look for gray areas to find and advantage for great success. Lawyers look for arguments based on interpretation of the law. CPA's do the same. Many many businesses spend a fortune on lawyers to argue their interpretation of the gray area. Does that make the world a bunch of cheaters or people trying to find every angle for an advantage.
That being said. Are there people that blatantly cheat, commit fraud and break the law? Yeah, there is and they deserve the punishment they eventually get, if they ever do. They deserve people calling them out. My point in this entire situation is that we don't know the exact details and interpretation of the rule. Maybe Michigan including Harbaugh looked at the rule and it states they couldn't have staff on site to scout opponents, but it's vague about people not employed by the university doing it. Does that make it right? ehh.. that's where you can have an argument on both sides, but if it's a gray area that doesn't have clarity on the rules, it's not cheating either.
If ultimately that's the stance, that it's blatantly cheating. Then you better go back and acknowledge that Ohio State cheated in the past. Even though it was common for players to be getting paid, to be taking jobs on payroll that weren't real jobs.. it was a competitive advantage getting them ahead and in your eyes, who cares if it's common practice, it's cheating.
Any reasonable person can acknowledge it looks like they had a system in place. They can acknowledge it looks like they problem took advantage of a rule that's old, dated, not relevant and took an angle on that rule that might have crossed the line, but we don't really know yet. Unreasonable people are calling them all cheaters, scum and acting like they know every detail and the only reason their team every lost is because their team was perfectly honest and honorable and that's garbage. Every team is looking for an angle which is why guys like Urban Meyer employ people to study one team and one team only. I'm sure honest Urban's guy never looked at trying to snag signal calling from a year of video studying.. Must be a cheater.
Lastly, i feel bad for the players. Players at that level are looking for guidance on the field an off through coaching staff. Now all these guys are immediately labeled as cheaters as they are giving every effort to be the best at what they do. Imagine being a professional that owns a business, you have attorneys that have a job to guide you in legal decisions. There's a gray area that your attorney tells you is the way to get ahead of your competition because the law is vague and there's an argument to be made to go that route and it's not black in white. You listen and go that route. Your competition calls you out, hangs you out to dry publicly without all the facts and details and every person you care about labels you and your business cheaters and terrible humans.
If after the fact, it's clear they knowingly crossed the line and the NCAA rule is clear as day, then everything slamming them is deserved. We aren't there yet.. but again, some people like to run out the fastest with handcuffs because losing has been too uncomfortable. That's my book on it.. now enjoy piling the twitter posts while I hang out to the memories of what this board once was.
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Can anyone cite the NCAA rule?
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Can anyone cite the NCAA rule?
NCAA Bylaw 11.6.1: “Off-campus, in-person scouting of future opponents (in the same season) is prohibited.”
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Michigan football sign-stealing scandal, explained: What to know about NCAA violation allegations, investigation | Sporting News (https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-football/news/michigan-sign-stealing-investigation-ncaa-football/9b58c9f812cc14d778e17ac8)
Notably, sign stealing is allowed if it's not done using electronics to relay information to players or coaches. Programs cannot, however, send anyone to scout a future opponent in-person within the same season. In-person scouting of opponents has been outlawed since 1994.
"Late Wednesday afternoon, the Big Ten Conference and University of Michigan were notified by the NCAA that the NCAA was investigating allegations of sign stealing by the University of Michigan football program," the statement read,
NCAA bylaw 11.6.1 prohibits teams from in-season, in-person scouting of future opponents. “Off-campus, in-person scouting of future opponents (in the same season) is prohibited," the rule reads.
In addition to allegedly scouting regular-season opponents, Yahoo Sports reports, Michigan is being investigated for scouting "possible College Football Playoff opponents," though it's unclear which teams might have been observed by the Wolverines.
Since the Big Ten said it was only notified of the investigation on Wednesday, it seems the inquiry is in its early stages.
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future opponents suggests teams on the schedule....well if you're doing in-person advanced scouting of teams not on your schedule....loophole.
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(https://i.imgur.com/HmryFhV.png)
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future opponents suggests teams on the schedule....well if you're doing in-person advanced scouting of teams not on your schedule....loophole.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231025/6a984f167116100dc2d79e0fb120e44b.jpeg)
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Here's is the exact copy of it from the NCAA hand book. Its actually free to look at.. LINK (https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/reports/getReport/90008)
I think the angle Michigan is going to take and is the gray area is the language in bylaws 11.6.1.1 and 16.6.1.2, using the language "institutional staff member." Say what you will, but I'm willing to bet that the people that were on-site were NOT institutional staff members and that's the angle Michigan would play if they ever had to. From a legal perspective, show me how they violated that language?
(https://i.imgur.com/KaVFfKa.png)
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Here's is the exact copy of it from the NCAA hand book. Its actually free to look at.. LINK (https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/reports/getReport/90008)
I think the angle Michigan is going to take and is the gray area is the language in bylaws 11.6.1.1 and 16.6.1.2, using the language "institutional staff member." Say what you will, but I'm willing to bet that the people that were on-site were NOT institutional staff members and that's the angle Michigan would play if they ever had to. From a legal perspective, show me how they violated that language?
(https://i.imgur.com/KaVFfKa.png)
First, "institutional staff member" is only mentioned in the exceptions, not the rule.
Second, neither of those exceptions would apply.
Third, the exceptions are there to handle cases like Basketball tournaments where two teams may be playing at the same site so actual institutional members (coaches/etc) are likely to be present, as a kind of catch-all such that the coaches must shut their eyes and cover their ears lest they be accused of "scouting".
Legal language is careful for a reason. In this case, it is a blanket prohibition of off-campus, in-person, scouting of future opponents. That the exception mentions institutional staff members but 11.6.1 does not is, IMHO, intentional. Specifically to cover things like what Michigan was [allegedly] doing.
future opponents suggests teams on the schedule....well if you're doing in-person advanced scouting of teams not on your schedule....loophole.
Well, the bylaw does not say future opponents "on the schedule". It says future opponents. I would say that the loophole would be sending someone to scout Tennessee and then them not being an actual opponent. But if you are out there scouting potential future opponents and then they become future opponents, I'd argue that you've violated the rule.
And in all honesty, this is both the letter of the rule and the spirit of the rule--Michigan had no need to go scout Georgia Tech because in no world would they be a future opponent. They weren't allegedly sending someone to the Tennessee/Vandy game to scout Vandy. They did allegedly scout Tennessee, UGA, etc, who had higher likelihood of being future opponents.
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I didn't know this was a rule, thanks. It makes sense. I suspect UM will claim they didn't know.
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First, "institutional staff member" is only mentioned in the exceptions, not the rule.
Second, neither of those exceptions would apply.
Third, the exceptions are there to handle cases like Basketball tournaments where two teams may be playing at the same site so actual institutional members (coaches/etc) are likely to be present, as a kind of catch-all such that the coaches must shut their eyes and cover their ears lest they be accused of "scouting".
No i completely agree with you. This situation clearly does not meet the exceptions at all and completely agree the exceptions are referencing basketball. I do believe the exceptions were added later down the road and specifically the language of "who" was added because people probably questioned who exactly does it apply to, so the exceptions tried to add clarifying language. I'm simply stating that the rule is vague. The language is not specific. That being said, i understand your statement of spirit of the rule. I get that stance, but i'm not sure that pins Michigan in the corner either. Does that make it right? Not necessarily, but also provides an out. One area we can all agree.. There will be very clear language for this rule in the future.
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I was actually in the process of typing almost exactly what @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) typed but he covered it so I scrapped that post.
There is a prohibition on in person scouting period.
The argument that the rules were not violated because the scUM staff had someone else do it is asinine.
It is the legal equivalent of providing a gun and paying someone to shoot your wife then claiming innocence based on the fact that you didn't personally pull the trigger.
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I was going to respond this morning, but the kiddos had me running circles. MB's posts are exactly what irk the hell out of me. It's juvenile and it's not how this board was for many years. When OSU was constantly in the spotlight, posters here didn't run around and call each other's programs cheaters and scumbags. Apparently gone are the days that Gator and Badge were the guiding light to just great atmosphere here where disagreements still centered on respect. This board has changed as much as the game of college football. It's sad. We should just close up shop and go to twitter as it's similar interactions.
What i was going to type up this morning was this. I fully believe that Michigan was doing this. How it started I have no idea. Everyone calling Michigan cheaters and saying they're the worst of the worst is where I simply laugh and why i go to hypocrisy statements. If you're saying they're cheaters, you're stating no one else is doing this and they're the only ones outside the lines. Many former players have come out and said sign stealing has been a thing for a long time.
In life, people look for gray areas to find and advantage for great success. Lawyers look for arguments based on interpretation of the law. CPA's do the same. Many many businesses spend a fortune on lawyers to argue their interpretation of the gray area. Does that make the world a bunch of cheaters or people trying to find every angle for an advantage.
That being said. Are there people that blatantly cheat, commit fraud and break the law? Yeah, there is and they deserve the punishment they eventually get, if they ever do. They deserve people calling them out. My point in this entire situation is that we don't know the exact details and interpretation of the rule. Maybe Michigan including Harbaugh looked at the rule and it states they couldn't have staff on site to scout opponents, but it's vague about people not employed by the university doing it. Does that make it right? ehh.. that's where you can have an argument on both sides, but if it's a gray area that doesn't have clarity on the rules, it's not cheating either.
If ultimately that's the stance, that it's blatantly cheating. Then you better go back and acknowledge that Ohio State cheated in the past. Even though it was common for players to be getting paid, to be taking jobs on payroll that weren't real jobs.. it was a competitive advantage getting them ahead and in your eyes, who cares if it's common practice, it's cheating.
Any reasonable person can acknowledge it looks like they had a system in place. They can acknowledge it looks like they problem took advantage of a rule that's old, dated, not relevant and took an angle on that rule that might have crossed the line, but we don't really know yet. Unreasonable people are calling them all cheaters, scum and acting like they know every detail and the only reason their team every lost is because their team was perfectly honest and honorable and that's garbage. Every team is looking for an angle which is why guys like Urban Meyer employ people to study one team and one team only. I'm sure honest Urban's guy never looked at trying to snag signal calling from a year of video studying.. Must be a cheater.
Lastly, i feel bad for the players. Players at that level are looking for guidance on the field an off through coaching staff. Now all these guys are immediately labeled as cheaters as they are giving every effort to be the best at what they do. Imagine being a professional that owns a business, you have attorneys that have a job to guide you in legal decisions. There's a gray area that your attorney tells you is the way to get ahead of your competition because the law is vague and there's an argument to be made to go that route and it's not black in white. You listen and go that route. Your competition calls you out, hangs you out to dry publicly without all the facts and details and every person you care about labels you and your business cheaters and terrible humans.
If after the fact, it's clear they knowingly crossed the line and the NCAA rule is clear as day, then everything slamming them is deserved. We aren't there yet.. but again, some people like to run out the fastest with handcuffs because losing has been too uncomfortable. That's my book on it.. now enjoy piling the twitter posts while I hang out to the memories of what this board once was.
Gator's gone (RIP). We're still trying, even through some of the tougher topics we've been through over the past few years.
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Lastly, i feel bad for the players. Players at that level are looking for guidance on the field an off through coaching staff. Now all these guys are immediately labeled as cheaters as they are giving every effort to be the best at what they do. Imagine being a professional that owns a business, you have attorneys that have a job to guide you in legal decisions. There's a gray area that your attorney tells you is the way to get ahead of your competition because the law is vague and there's an argument to be made to go that route and it's not black in white. You listen and go that route. Your competition calls you out, hangs you out to dry publicly without all the facts and details and every person you care about labels you and your business cheaters and terrible humans.
I feel bad for the players.
Wins vacated, no bowl game, no chance to play for a national title
they didn't sign up to play for Michigan for this bullshit
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It is the legal equivalent of providing a gun and paying someone to shoot your wife then claiming innocence based on the fact that you didn't personally pull the trigger.
That's seriously an absurd comparison. Absurd. you're comparing studying an opponent to murder.
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Gator's gone (RIP). We're still trying, even through some of the tougher topics we've been through over the past few years.
I know. Oddly, I think about him often and go and look at his picture on the facebook page from time to time. He was such a good man. Gave me some life shaping advice both personally and professional off the boards. There will never be anything again like his stories and recaps of his college football trips and adventures. So many people didn't cross lines on the board because it would have felt like "letting down" or disappointing your parents.
For many years we tackled some tough topics. Gold boots. Sandusky and Penn State.. There's been a ton. Many of them have been heated. Sorry, i just can't say it's the same place when people start comparing in person scouts to giving people guns and stealing signs to murder. That's not productive conversation. That's inflammatory conjecture. Life's too short to spend time on unproductive conversation.
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I was going to respond this morning, but the kiddos had me running circles. MB's posts are exactly what irk the hell out of me. It's juvenile and it's not how this board was for many years. When OSU was constantly in the spotlight, posters here didn't run around and call each other's programs cheaters and scumbags. Apparently gone are the days that Gator and Badge were the guiding light to just great atmosphere here where disagreements still centered on respect. This board has changed as much as the game of college football. It's sad. We should just close up shop and go to twitter as it's similar interactions.
What i was going to type up this morning was this. I fully believe that Michigan was doing this. How it started I have no idea. Everyone calling Michigan cheaters and saying they're the worst of the worst is where I simply laugh and why i go to hypocrisy statements. If you're saying they're cheaters, you're stating no one else is doing this and they're the only ones outside the lines. Many former players have come out and said sign stealing has been a thing for a long time.
In life, people look for gray areas to find and advantage for great success. Lawyers look for arguments based on interpretation of the law. CPA's do the same. Many many businesses spend a fortune on lawyers to argue their interpretation of the gray area. Does that make the world a bunch of cheaters or people trying to find every angle for an advantage.
That being said. Are there people that blatantly cheat, commit fraud and break the law? Yeah, there is and they deserve the punishment they eventually get, if they ever do. They deserve people calling them out. My point in this entire situation is that we don't know the exact details and interpretation of the rule. Maybe Michigan including Harbaugh looked at the rule and it states they couldn't have staff on site to scout opponents, but it's vague about people not employed by the university doing it. Does that make it right? ehh.. that's where you can have an argument on both sides, but if it's a gray area that doesn't have clarity on the rules, it's not cheating either.
If ultimately that's the stance, that it's blatantly cheating. Then you better go back and acknowledge that Ohio State cheated in the past. Even though it was common for players to be getting paid, to be taking jobs on payroll that weren't real jobs.. it was a competitive advantage getting them ahead and in your eyes, who cares if it's common practice, it's cheating.
Any reasonable person can acknowledge it looks like they had a system in place. They can acknowledge it looks like they problem took advantage of a rule that's old, dated, not relevant and took an angle on that rule that might have crossed the line, but we don't really know yet. Unreasonable people are calling them all cheaters, scum and acting like they know every detail and the only reason their team every lost is because their team was perfectly honest and honorable and that's garbage. Every team is looking for an angle which is why guys like Urban Meyer employ people to study one team and one team only. I'm sure honest Urban's guy never looked at trying to snag signal calling from a year of video studying.. Must be a cheater.
Lastly, i feel bad for the players. Players at that level are looking for guidance on the field an off through coaching staff. Now all these guys are immediately labeled as cheaters as they are giving every effort to be the best at what they do. Imagine being a professional that owns a business, you have attorneys that have a job to guide you in legal decisions. There's a gray area that your attorney tells you is the way to get ahead of your competition because the law is vague and there's an argument to be made to go that route and it's not black in white. You listen and go that route. Your competition calls you out, hangs you out to dry publicly without all the facts and details and every person you care about labels you and your business cheaters and terrible humans.
If after the fact, it's clear they knowingly crossed the line and the NCAA rule is clear as day, then everything slamming them is deserved. We aren't there yet.. but again, some people like to run out the fastest with handcuffs because losing has been too uncomfortable. That's my book on it.. now enjoy piling the twitter posts while I hang out to the memories of what this board once was.
Since you called me out personally, I feel obligated to respond:
Yes, I do think they are cheaters and the worst of the worst.
I've simply never seen anything like this. Most scandals (pre-NIL) involved boosters paying kids and coaches either not knowing, pretending not to know, or intentionally avoiding knowledge.
Tressel's tattoo scandal involved kids selling stuff that they owned. Tressel was rightly fired because he found out and covered it up.
The incredible stupidity in that situation was that the underlying violation wasn't all that big of a deal. Had Tressel reported it the kids would have missed a few games against teams that tOSU's third string could beat. Instead Tressel covered it up and it cost an entire season being vacated and the end of Tressel's coaching career.
One commonality about those is that the underlying violation was committed by a kid and/or a booster.
In this case the underlying violation was orchestrated by the coaching staff. To me, that makes a humongous difference and it is damning.
This isn't about a mistake made by a kid.
This isn't boosters doing things they shouldn't.
Lots of kids at lots of schools have made mistakes. Lots of boosters at lots of schools have done things they shouldn't. This isn't a scandal like that.
This is the Michigan coaching staff conspiring to cheat.
Yes, that makes them cheaters.
In our legal system premeditation is very important. If an Ohio State fan calls Michigan scUM and cheaters in a bar in Ann Arbor, a fight breaks out, and said Ohio State fan is killed in the bar fight the killers are guilty, at most, of murder 2 and probably only manslaughter exactly because they did NOT plan the killing in advance.
This, by definition, was premeditated by the Michigan coaching staff. AFAIK, it is unprecedented.
I simply disagree with your assertion that this is a grey area. See @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) 's and my comments above.
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That's seriously an absurd comparison. Absurd. you're comparing studying an opponent to murder.
Did you seriously read it that way?
I'm obviously not comparing what Michigan did to murder. I'm comparing the defense being offered to saying "I'm not guilty because I didn't pull the trigger".
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https://twitter.com/RealBraxtonM/status/1716899904138936759?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1716899904138936759%7Ctwgr%5E045f16ec9068d8b590fdf6f009f0a70edd4bc751%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fcollege%2Fohio-state%2Fboard%2F120%2FContents%2Fjames-franklins-takeinteresting-218830299%2F%3Fpage%3D1
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQm2YXqkmAQ&ab_channel=SECShorts
Fricking hilarious.
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Did you seriously read it that way?
I'm obviously not comparing what Michigan did to murder. I'm comparing the defense being offered to saying "I'm not guilty because I didn't pull the trigger".
You let a friend borrower your car. This friend goes to the bar, gets hammered, kills someone on the way home. Your fault? You let him borrower your car.
Secondly, the Tressel situation you're summing up is only covering what the NCAA could 100% prove and hold them to it. There was far more to the story an what was actually happening. Since we're local to each other, i'll give you the address to the company and one of the donors that was employing OSU players, is well connected to Tressel and you can go digging around to how many OSU players were on their payroll that never worked a day there once you start talking to the other employees there.
My point is not to deflect. My point is that it has been a dirty game for a while and most of the teams at the top are in the gray area for competitive advantage in so many ways and being a fan of a team at the top and claiming they are holier than thou is shortsighted in my opinion.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQm2YXqkmAQ&ab_channel=SECShorts
Fricking hilarious.
Ok now that's freaking funny.
The james franklin one... that dude just calls a terrible game and wants to blame others.. Unless he's going to blame OSu for sign stealing for his absolutely terrible play calling this weekend.
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So, the NCAA in due time will render some decision, probably in a year plus?
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the conference will probably do something sooner
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the conference will probably do something sooner
I can tell you're new here
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I can tell you're new here
Several articles (all parroting each other) have the headline "Big Ten may impose penalties before NCAA."
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Several articles (all parroting each other) have the headline "Big Ten may impose penalties before NCAA."
I have not seen that. Where?
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Several articles (all parroting each other) have the headline "Big Ten may impose penalties before NCAA."
Shutdown Fullcast said the funniest outcome is Oregon and Washington demanding the Big Ten remove UM from CFP contention
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Shutdown Fullcast said the funniest outcome is Oregon and Washington demanding the Big Ten remove UM from CFP contention
That is hilarious but would it actually help them?
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I do believe the exceptions were added later down the road and specifically the language of "who" was added because people probably questioned who exactly does it apply to, so the exceptions tried to add clarifying language. I'm simply stating that the rule is vague. The language is not specific.
You do realize that the screen shot YOU posted reflected that the rule was revised in 1997 and then again in 2013. If they were trying to clarify something, they had multiple opportunities to do so.
The language is specific. There is to be no off-campus, in-person scouting of future opponents. Blanket ban.
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I have not seen that. Where?
https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2023/10/142056/big-ten-reportedly-doesnt-have-to-wait-for-ncaa-investigation-to-conclude-to-impose-penalties-on-michigan-connor
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"Reportedly" is a weird word.
Reported? Fine.
"Reportedly" is like kinda reported, but not really. Especially coming from an ESecPN source.
And speaking of our old Gator friend...
Maybely this guy under scrutiny just liked going to games all over the place, by himself.
Kinda Maybe?
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There is another rule arguably violated that bans recording of opposing team signals. That is in the section regarding on-field equipment, so I guess there is debate over whether it applies.
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And speaking of our old Gator friend...
Maybely this guy under scrutiny just liked going to games all over the place, by himself.
Kinda Maybe?
The less palatable college football becomes, the more I look forward to the day where I have the time and means to consume it in that way
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As unbelievable as a 55k a year guy traveling and buying tickets on his own dime with no approval/reimbursement is, you read stuff like this, and maybe he is just a big enough weirdo to do so
https://www.si.com/college/2023/10/25/michigan-connor-stalions-texts-stolen-signals
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I used to enjoy it quite a bit, although it was mostly following UW around.
The board meetings we used to do around the country were quite fun.
I don't have much tolerance for idiocy, which you find so much of inside all stadiums these days.
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I used to enjoy it quite a bit, although it was mostly following UW around.
The board meetings we used to do around the country were quite fun.
I don't have much tolerance for idiocy, which you find so much of inside all stadiums these days.
I wouldn't follow MSU. I would go as a neutral
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I would like to revive the board meetings, regardless of whether or not I went in the stadium.
First one on my list would be Auburn @eltigrerex (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1580) and then Ole Miss.
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Like one of those LA Star Tours, but for Hugh Freeze
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I don't think I'd leave the Grove...
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Like one of those LA Star Tours, but for Hugh Freeze
From the archives
https://www.cfb51.com/big-ten/ole-miss/42/
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John U Bacon exposes the exposer
.https://twitter.com/davebiddle/status/1717192275778744587?t=p_7y--9jzINKndKFRBX3cA&s=19
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There's a twist for ya.
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I would like to revive the board meetings, regardless of whether or not I went in the stadium.
First one on my list would be Auburn @eltigrerex (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1580) and then Ole Miss.
Second. Ole Miss is fun, never been to Auburn.
LSU is a thought too.
Could do another one around here too.
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As unbelievable as a 55k a year guy traveling and buying tickets on his own dime with no approval/reimbursement is, you read stuff like this, and maybe he is just a big enough weirdo to do so
https://www.si.com/college/2023/10/25/michigan-connor-stalions-texts-stolen-signals
I will admit, that story gives off a "How many copies of Catcher in the Rye does Stalions own?" kind of vibe...
It's the one thing that gives at least a tiny amount of credence to the idea that was a lone wolf (and certifiable nutjob) here.
That said, the fact that he's on the payroll and on sidelines with the OC/DC during games would make it hard to believe that he's a lone wolf. The only way it could be possible is if he was telling the UM that he was doing this all from watching games on TV and was hiding the fact that he was buying tickets and sending other people to scout in person in the background.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9QzPuZbMAAr-Fp?format=jpg&name=small)
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Good find ELA
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(https://twitter.com/OhioStateFBChat)Ohio State Football Recruiting
@OhioStateFBChat
Michigan board was reporting earlier that it might be Matt Weiss and there is now a rumor that Michigan hacked Ohio State's practice footage
Whomever it is, definitely an inside source now. Too many details have emerged that know inside information.
---------------------------------------------------
Wow comment under Biddle. Now a bitter ex employee......
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John U Bacon exposes the exposer
.https://twitter.com/davebiddle/status/1717192275778744587?t=p_7y--9jzINKndKFRBX3cA&s=19
Here is one of the comments from a Roaddog same guy who use to post here?
(https://twitter.com/JDRhoaddog)@JDRhoaddog
There couldn't be a better outcome than Michigan's own turning them in after the fanbase has spent the last few days ignoring the allegations and just slinging mud that it must have been Ryan Day complaining.
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Here is one of the comments from a Roaddog same guy who use to post here?
(https://twitter.com/JDRhoaddog)@JDRhoaddog
There couldn't be a better outcome than Michigan's own turning them in after the fanbase has spent the last few days ignoring the allegations and just slinging mud that it must have been Ryan Day complaining.
If that’s the same person, can you go recruit him back here? Really like him. Good guy.
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What do you think the penalty will comprise, if any?
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What do you think the penalty will comprise, if any?
This season will play out as normal, Harbaugh will leave for the NFL, victories and banners will come down, and he will get a Show Cause, even though he will never coach in college again.
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If that’s the same person, can you go recruit him back here? Really like him. Good guy.
JDR is not his initials. I don't think it's the same person. The state troopers in Indiana call themselves Road Dawgs. We met him at MH's house in Indy and we went to the B1G CCG together, for UW/PSU. Great guy.
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College football coaches sound off on sign-stealing amid Michigan investigation: 'Ridiculous what goes on' (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/longformarticle/college-football-coaches-sound-off-on-sign-stealing-amid-michigan-investigation-ridiculous-what-goes-on-218793727/#2280450)
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Deep fake are terrifying and sometimes funny
https://twitter.com/2_Tees/status/1717245928480833878?t=WWuyJKEHF2KXSN8VxfBntQ&s=19
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What do you think the penalty will comprise, if any?
Eastern Michigan will have their program gutted.
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JDR is not his initials. I don't think it's the same person. The state troopers in Indiana call themselves Road Dawgs. We met him at MH's house in Indy and we went to the B1G CCG together, for UW/PSU. Great guy.
Was that the one I went to and met you all beforehand? 2016?
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Spotlight increases on Jim Harbaugh, Michigan amid sign-stealing saga, reaction says (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/heat-increases-on-jim-harbaugh-michigan-amid-sign-stealing-saga-media-says-218771695/?fbclid=IwAR0BX0y3E6vD21yL0xerVNPFye0zoaRqJIv5_l87v5mQFDHkBtfi-runRuo)
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I will admit, that story gives off a "How many copies of Catcher in the Rye does Stalions own?" kind of vibe...
It's the one thing that gives at least a tiny amount of credence to the idea that was a lone wolf (and certifiable nutjob) here.
That said, the fact that he's on the payroll and on sidelines with the OC/DC during games would make it hard to believe that he's a lone wolf. The only way it could be possible is if he was telling the UM that he was doing this all from watching games on TV and was hiding the fact that he was buying tickets and sending other people to scout in person in the background.
It seems like there is even more. People have dug up posts from him on the MGoBlog board from like 2011 and 2012, where other posters are accusing him of just randomly responding with one word responses to tick up his post count, and Devin Gardner said he remembered him waiting outside the team bus.
There's even some suggestion that he joined the Marines specifically as an in with the Michigan football staff. Like some guys dream of being a football coach, he literally only dreamed of being the Michigan coach.
Forget the Catcher in the Rye type stuff. I think once he finds out Harbaugh was never going to give him a Quinn Nordin style sleepover, he would boil Jay's pet rabbit
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When it comes to bringing down arrogant assholes, who break the rules, even though they are probably going to win, the Washington Post certainly has earned some benefit of the doubt
www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/10/25/michigan-computers-sign-stealing-evidence/
The sign-stealing investigation threatening to disrupt Michigan’s football season began after an outside investigative firm approached the NCAA with documents and videos the firm said it had obtained from computer drives maintained and accessed by multiple Michigan coaches, according to two people familiar with the matter,
......
Among the pieces of evidence the firm presented, these people said, was a detailed schedule of Michigan’s planned sign-stealing travel for the rest of this season, listing opponents’ schedules, which games Michigan scouts would attend, and how much money was budgeted for travel and tickets to scout each team.
The opponents targeted the most on this schedule, these people said, were not surprising. Atop the list was Ohio State, Michigan’s top rival in the Big Ten, and scouts planned to attend as many as eight games, costing more than $3,000 in travel and tickets. Next on the list was Georgia, a potential Michigan opponent in the College Football Playoff, with four or five games scheduled for in-person scouting and video-recording, also costing more than $3,000 in travel and tickets.
........
The outside firm also presented to NCAA officials photographs of people investigators believed to be Michigan scouts in action — including current students interning with the football team. The photos showed these people seated at games of Michigan opponents this season, aiming their cellphones at the sidelines. Days later, the outside firm told the NCAA, cellphone videos depicting the coaching staffs from these games were uploaded to a computer drive maintained and accessed by Stalions as well as several other Michigan assistants and coaches.....
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Zounds, if most of this is true .... Eastern Michigan may get the death penalty.
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Zounds, if most of this is true .... Eastern Michigan may get the death penalty.
They might nail all 3 directional Michigan schools, and don't forget Brian Kelly got his start at Grand Valley State, so it seems like a good time to bust them for the fact that he killed a kid when he was at Notre Dame.
But in all seriousness, if this is true, there is no way Harbaugh coaches another game
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Bob Stoops
"If it's true, oh, absolutely [it is a big deal]. That's ridiculous," Stoops said in an appearance on the Morning Animals radio show. "Everyone (saying), 'Oh, it happens all the time!' No, it doesn't. I've never heard of that. In all my years of football and every team I've ever been on, sure, do we look across the field and if you can see it, that's your job to do. You know what i'm saying, if I'm able to just in my plain eye look over there and know what they're doing, I should be doing that.
"But to video people and to send people to scout and marry up a signal with the play ... No, no, no. That's terrible. It goes against everything we're about. That's wrong, if it happened."
...
"I'm not saying it did (happen with Michigan), but I've never heard of that. I've never been around anybody who's done it," said Stoops, a national title-winning, College Football Hall of Famer.
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Deep fake are terrifying and sometimes funny
https://twitter.com/2_Tees/status/1717245928480833878?t=WWuyJKEHF2KXSN8VxfBntQ&s=19
That looked like a short clip of the NFL Bad Lip Reading.
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When it comes to bringing down arrogant assholes, who break the rules, even though they are probably going to win, the Washington Post certainly has earned some benefit of the doubt
www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/10/25/michigan-computers-sign-stealing-evidence/
The sign-stealing investigation threatening to disrupt Michigan’s football season began after an outside investigative firm approached the NCAA with documents and videos the firm said it had obtained from computer drives maintained and accessed by multiple Michigan coaches, according to two people familiar with the matter,
......
Among the pieces of evidence the firm presented, these people said, was a detailed schedule of Michigan’s planned sign-stealing travel for the rest of this season, listing opponents’ schedules, which games Michigan scouts would attend, and how much money was budgeted for travel and tickets to scout each team.
The opponents targeted the most on this schedule, these people said, were not surprising. Atop the list was Ohio State, Michigan’s top rival in the Big Ten, and scouts planned to attend as many as eight games, costing more than $3,000 in travel and tickets. Next on the list was Georgia, a potential Michigan opponent in the College Football Playoff, with four or five games scheduled for in-person scouting and video-recording, also costing more than $3,000 in travel and tickets.
........
The outside firm also presented to NCAA officials photographs of people investigators believed to be Michigan scouts in action — including current students interning with the football team. The photos showed these people seated at games of Michigan opponents this season, aiming their cellphones at the sidelines. Days later, the outside firm told the NCAA, cellphone videos depicting the coaching staffs from these games were uploaded to a computer drive maintained and accessed by Stalions as well as several other Michigan assistants and coaches.....
Wow. Just… wow. that’s lost scholarship, vacated wins, post season ban territory.
and interesting as to where it started.
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https://twitter.com/RedditCFB/status/1717318699684970702?s=20
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KZcrQvBRFI
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yup...
https://twitter.com/SECBarstool/status/1716883132711121083?s=20
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Dave Portnoy is literally the best...
https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1717243606552268961?s=20
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https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1717245376573722861?s=20
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https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1716839520224579783?s=20
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https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1717254853586833614?s=20
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(https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/808/60/12060808.jpeg?width=600&fit=bounds)
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Conor stole this one...
https://twitter.com/Parkno1/status/1716982833695109255?s=20
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Dave Portnoy is literally the best...
https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1717243606552268961?s=20
At sexual assualt?
and honestly Michigan should be running as far away from this guy as humanly possible. The fact that he was even on the payroll makes me wonder how MSU didn't hire him. They literally hired a guy who Michigan fan boards tried to ban for being a psycho
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😂😂😂.
Talk about triggered!
Go ahead MDot. Let off some steam.
I can’t blame you. Your house of cards is crumbling around you. It was just like all the other Slappy is over there on Mgoblog. Not the least bit concerned about the blatant, premeditated, sophisticated, plans, and budget to cheat.
Just concerned about trying to blame someone else. Sad.
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At sexual assualt?
Stop reading the Washington Post. It's literally fake news. Portnoy never sexual assaulted anyone. His name ain't Mel Tucker. He has raised tens of millions for small businesses during COVID though....
Portnoy = GOAT'ed
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I saw an article that pointed out that Michigan's greatest era of success prior to this, resulted in them being kicked out of the big 10 for using players that never even sniffed a classroom, let alone in Michigan classroom. Their greatest era of baseball success was vacated because the coach was embezzling money from the university to pay players in the '80s, and then two years ago their best player was suspended for using an illegal bat. Everyone knows how their greatest era of basketball success ended. Their last hockey coach got fired for telling players to lie about not having COVID practices. And now their football coach, while being investigated for the same thing that got their hockey coach fired, is being investigated for an even bigger cheating scandal. At some point when an institution tells you what they are, over the course of over 100 years, you should probably believe them.
And that's not to say they are any worse than anyone else, but any facade that they are any better, is laughable. Hopefully they add a laugh track to James. Earl Jones introducing the greatest university in the world. Honestly, if this was Auburn, nobody would care. I think most of us would accept zero penalties, as long as Michigan just admitted they were the Auburn of the north, rather than the Harvard of the West
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Stop reading the Washington Post. It's literally fake news. Portnoy never sexual assaulted anyone. His name ain't Mel Tucker. He has raised tens of millions for small businesses during COVID though....
Portnoy = GOAT'ed
Someone should tell Nixon
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😂😂😂.
Talk about triggered!
Go ahead MDot. Let off some steam.
I can’t blame you. Your house of cards is crumbling around you. It was just like all the other Slappy is over there on Mgoblog. Not the least bit concerned about the blatant, premeditated, sophisticated, plans, and budget to cheat.
Just concerned about trying to blame someone else. Sad.
Don't give a single flying fck about the sign stealing.
Ohio State fans are going to be very disappointed by the lack of punishment that is coming Michigan's way.
If Jeem pummels pussy Cryin Ryan for the 3rd year in a row and actually wins a Natty- no Michigan fans will give a flying fck about sing stealing.
Cover 3 Podcast nailed this entire fiasco...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oImYZCnXxD4&t=1s
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Busted!
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Don't give a single flying fck about the sign stealing.
Ohio State fans are going to be very disappointed by the lack of punishment that is coming Michigan's way.
If Jeem pummels pussy Cryin Ryan for the 3rd year in a row and actually wins a Natty- no Michigan fans will give a flying fck about sing stealing.
Cover 3 Podcast nailed this entire fiasco...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oImYZCnXxD4&t=1s
If your Astros can accomplish that, without cheating by knowing EVERY play their opponents are calling - that would be impressive.
But cheater cheater booger eater will still be 3-6 v OSU. ( the year he pussied out with fake Covid is a loss)
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Barstool is literally for morons who upgraded from bottom shelf bourbon and CollegeHumor.com to middle shelf bourbon. Their top end is the guy Matt Damon shit on on Good Will Hunting.
He literally hired an idiot from a Tigers podcast, based on his losing his shit during a meaningless no hotter, and made him his MLB guy. That shitty Tigers podcast has tripled in listeners since Barstool "stole"him. But his listenership doesn't actually care about sports, they are way more about blaming all of the girls that never slept with them
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(https://i.imgur.com/eRqOiYY.jpg)
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[img width=274.381 height=375]https://i.imgur.com/eRqOiYY.jpg[/img]
Shutdown Fullcast came up with...
Jail to the Victors
That Team Up Oliver North
The Tape, The Tape, The Tape
And they are so frequently accused of being pro-Michigam, they introduce the podcast as being "the internets only Michigan football podcast"
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I used to be impressed that Michigan went from two and four of the Covid year to national powerhouse in one season. Obviously I’m not anymore now that we all know how they did it.
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Dave Portnoy is literally the best...
because Barstool is known for hiring only the best. :D
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But in all seriousness, if this is true, there is no way Harbaugh coaches another game
Quote from: Honestbuckeye 10/25/2023, 6:59:30 PM
Wow. Just… wow. that’s lost scholarship, vacated wins, post season ban territory.
and interesting as to where it started.
Still think I'm over the top @SuperMario (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1596) ?
Sticking to my hedge, if this is true, it is easily the biggest cheating scandal in the modern history of CFB.
We all know that Bo Schembechler's athletic department orchestrated the biggest pay-to-play scandal in the modern history of CBB.
At that point:
Dirty football program.
Dirty basketball program.
Dirty athletic department.
Dirty institution.
scUM
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Quote from: Honestbuckeye 10/25/2023, 6:59:30 PM
Wow. Just… wow. that’s lost scholarship, vacated wins, post season ban territory.
and interesting as to where it started.
Still think I'm over the top @SuperMario (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1596) ?
Sticking to my hedge, if this is true, it is easily the biggest cheating scandal in the modern history of CFB.
We all know that Bo Schembechler's athletic department orchestrated the biggest pay-to-play scandal in the modern history of CBB.
At that point:
Dirty football program.
Dirty basketball program.
Dirty athletic department.
Dirty institution.
scUM
Yeah. I do. People obsessively posting pictures memes and links might as well head over to barstool. I’ll stick to conversations about travel and food with the guys here still worthy of respect.
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Yeah. I do. People obsessively posting pictures memes and links might as well head over to barstool. I’ll stick to conversations about travel and food with the guys here still worthy of respect.
Hey good memes are the best part of any scandal
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This is easily the biggest cheating scandal in modern sports.
Shaving points is one guy. Paying a guy to come to your school- the guy is on your roster before any game is played.
This is organized, scheduled in game cheating on every play. The integrity of the game is out the window.
UM has beaten The spread at a sustained rate never before seen, during this stretch.
Their last 2 playoff games- where they didn’t have the plays- they were beaten in embarrassing fashion.
And please don’t call this circumstantial evidence. The tickets were purchased- and they have the receipts. They have video proof of recording their future opponents signals. Now( if Washington Post is true) they have proof on Michigan computers that this was all planned, budgeted and paid for by coaches and assistants, and plenty of video proof that this “ signal savant”
Was feeding info, in game, to both UM’s coordinators. Nothing circumstantial about that.
The hammer will come down. It has to.
It may take a while, but it will.
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Auburn is still an active P5 program. It's not like this is unprecedented. Just a very new lane for Michigan. They are the Auburn of the north at this point considering the number of rules violations their program is built upon. I honestly think that's the crippling part for a large number of non alums who somehow acted superior. Hell, they are a better version of Auburn. Auburn wishes they had the amount of success Michigan built across multiple sports based on cheating
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(https://i.imgur.com/psa7cXf.png)
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Yeah. I do. People obsessively posting pictures memes and links might as well head over to barstool. I’ll stick to conversations about travel and food with the guys here still worthy of respect.
Before I call you and several other Michigan posters "unworthy of respect", I'll let this sink in for a while. I don't think you guys are actually this bad, I think you are just in denial.
While I do that why don't you look through this thread and ignore @Honestbuckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=37) , @MaximumSam (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1572) , @medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) , and the rest of us tOSU posters and the Michigan posters as well.
I've never known @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) to show anti-Michigan bias. In this thread he said this was vacated wins and show cause level stuff.
@ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) grew up a Michigan guy, in a Michigan household. He just called this like it is. I don't think that was easy for him.
I try to look at situations like this (and tattoos) and ask myself what my opinion would be if this was a school I was completely neutral on.
With tattoos I did that and concluded that I'd feel that while the underlying violation was silly and small, the HC had to go because he knew. That helped me to avoid the trap of clinging to the "silly and small" part like a lot of tOSU fans did.
When I look at this and ask myself how I'd feel if this was a school I was neutral on, I'd say that if the allegations are true, this is the biggest cheating scandal in modern CFB history and they need to be hammered. If you are honest, you'll agree.
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What say you?
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There are 3 competing arguments I would say.
1). Meh, Harbaugh did cheat but let's not over_react The rule against sending scouts to opposing teams stadiums should not even exist. As for stealing other teams signs, everybody tries to do that. It's a "sign". that FBS football is long overdue to installing radios in QB"s helmets like the NFL does. Harbaugh deserves a fine and maybe a short suspension and that's it. Move on. Harbaugh is going to be at Michigan forever
2). Harbaugh more than once has been exposed as a cheater. How many times does he need to be caught? Penalties need to escalate for each violation and its time for him to go.
3). Harbaugh will receive a small fine and suspension, but he is tired of the NCAA's B. S. He will finally leave Michigan at the end of the season taking a job in the NFL.
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(https://i.imgur.com/eRqOiYY.jpg)
that was a good one...i chuckled.
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Hey good memes are the best part of any scandal
100%
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This is easily the biggest cheating scandal in modern sports.
Shaving points is one guy. Paying a guy to come to your school- the guy is on your roster before any game is played.
This is organized, scheduled in game cheating on every play. The integrity of the game is out the window.
UM has beaten The spread at a sustained rate never before seen, during this stretch.
Their last 2 playoff games- where they didn’t have the plays- they were beaten in embarrassing fashion.
And please don’t call this circumstantial evidence. The tickets were purchased- and they have the receipts. They have video proof of recording their future opponents signals. Now( if Washington Post is true) they have proof on Michigan computers that this was all planned, budgeted and paid for by coaches and assistants, and plenty of video proof that this “ signal savant”
Was feeding info, in game, to both UM’s coordinators. Nothing circumstantial about that.
The hammer will come down. It has to.
It may take a while, but it will.
yeah, not even remotely close. hyperbole much? why don't you listen to the littany of former players and current coaches who say this is a nothing burger. ever heard of Pats accused of taping other teams practices and spygate?
you are going to be sorely disappointed when very little comes from this.
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NCAA hasn't brought a notice of allegations forward to Michigan and won't for at least a couple of months or more. All they've done is announced that there is an investigation and let their minions in the fake news media leak unsubstantiated uncorroborated report after report citing "anonymous sources".
Jeem ain't going anywhere anytime soon. He's going to finish the season and then bolt for the NFL where he doesn't have to deal with all this bullshit and nonsense that is the NCAA, NIL, portal, a retard AD in Warde Manuel, boosters/fundraising, recruiting dipshit entitled 16-18 year old snot nosed dumbass bastard kids who all think they're hot shit and gods gift to earth, etc., etc..
Jeem will be off to the pros and Michigan will probably get a slap on the wrist and that will be that.
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Just what I thought. Someone on at the NCAA with an axe to grind over Coach Harbaugh that’s leaking all this BS. Wish I could attend the meeting between Michigan and the NCAA. Michigan’s AD Manuel better chew some ass and defend the football program.
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Here is a guess, this will "take a while" with a drip drip drip of "new news" (a lot of which is nothing). By the season's end, Harbaugh has had enough of it and bolts. I don't know if the conference will act sooner, they could suspend coaches/pending, as this individual is already suspended.
MSU dumped Tucker pretty fast, I'd guess he's suing, but that could happen here depending.
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Just what I thought. Someone on at the NCAA with an axe to grind over Coach Harbaugh that’s leaking all this BS. Wish I could attend the meeting between Michigan and the NCAA. Michigan’s AD Manuel better chew some ass and defend the football program.
Just what you thought? You have been blaming Ohio State this whole time.
it does sound like there is either someone with an ax to grind- or more likely- a former employee (Gattis or Weiss?)
But the”Bs” they are leaking seems factual.
Doesn’t it bother you that this was going on?
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Jeem ain't going anywhere anytime soon. He's going to finish the season and then bolt for the NFL where he doesn't have to deal with all this bullshit and nonsense that is the NCAA, NIL, portal, a retard AD in Warde Manuel, boosters/fundraising, recruiting dipshit entitled 16-18 year old snot nosed dumbass bastard kids who all think they're hot shit and gods gift to earth, etc., etc..
So in other words the same kids UofM and everyone else has recruited
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So in other words the same kids UofM and everyone else has recruited
yeah, recruiting has to absolutely suck. it’s worse now that it’s ever been.
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MSU dumped Tucker pretty fast, I'd guess he's suing, but that could happen here depending.
Tucker wasn’t performing like Jeem has been. Lot of people at MSU were eager to get out of that albatross of a horrific contract for a mediocre .500 coach without paying his $80 million buyout.
Add that on top of the sexual abuse scandal at MSU and this being a sexual harassment case- which is FAR more serious than sign stealing (which EVERYONE does) and that explains why Tugger was out pretty quickly at MSU. They are not comparable situations. At all.
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yeah, not even remotely close. hyperbole much? why don't you listen to the littany of former players and current coaches who say this is a nothing burger. ever heard of Pats accused of taping other teams practices and spygate?
you are going to be sorely disappointed when very little comes from this.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/legendary-coach-bob-stoops-rips-michigan-for-alleged-sign-stealing/ar-AA1iQXiT
your missing it. I can find a lot of these.
When you won because you had a distinct, illegal advantage of knowing the other teams play calls on a play-to-play basis, did you really win.
my guess is the University will beg for Mercy. They are caught red handed. They will offer up a Harbaugh but that probably won’t be enough because Harbaugh was going to likely leave anyway.
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I didn't imply they are comparable at all, I just note a program CAN move very fast if the evidence warrants. I don't expect Michigan to do this.
If the evidence shows that the Michigan PROGRAM was involved in this scheme knowingly and willfully, I think it's a major violation and will result in serious consequences. That's an IF. It will take some time to gather and analyze what is known, aside from what has been leaked (which is basically almost all we know about this). This isn't something "everybody does", I don't think that is true, and it's clearly a rules violation IF it is confirmed that the program was involved and took advantage.
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Just what you thought? You have been blaming Ohio State this whole time.
it does sound like there is either someone with an ax to grind- or more likely- a former employee (Gattis or Weiss?)
But the”Bs” they are leaking seems factual.
Doesn’t it bother you that this was going on?
Enough with the pompous holier art thou and the whining already. Cry me a river why don’t you.
Apparently this was all kicked off by a 3rd party law firm who brought this bs to NCAA attention. Gee, I wonder who hired that firm. I’d put money on it being that ultra pussy born on 3rd base bitch boy.
And to answer your question, it doesn’t bother any Michigan fan. We literally do not care.
Jeem could steal candy from a baby and as long as he smashes pussy Cryin Ryan’s face in again no one would give two shits.
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If this were my program, I'd certainly 'care' and be very concerned.
I'd want to wait and see, which is what I'm doing anyway, but there is enough "evidence" that has surfaced to see ample reason for concern, in my view. This looks serious, to me, very serious, IF it is confirmed.
Michigan football sign-stealing scandal: News updates as evidence mounts in alleged cheating investigation - CBSSports.com (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/michigan-football-sign-stealing-scandal-news-updates-as-evidence-mounts-in-alleged-cheating-investigation/live/)
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Just what you thought? You have been blaming Ohio State this whole time.
it does sound like there is either someone with an ax to grind- or more likely- a former employee (Gattis or Weiss?)
But the”Bs” they are leaking seems factual.
Doesn’t it bother you that this was going on?
That's right, Ryan Day told the NCAA just what they wanted to hear.
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Enough with the pompous holier art thou and the whining already. Cry me a river why don’t you.
Apparently this was all kicked off by a 3rd party law firm who brought this bs to NCAA attention. Gee, I wonder who hired that firm. I’d put money on it being that ultra pussy born on 3rd base bitch boy.
And to answer your question, it doesn’t bother any Michigan fan. We literally do not care.
Jeem could steal candy from a baby and as long as he smashes pussy Cryin Ryan’s face in again no one would give two shits.
As far as I am concerned- Harbaugh has neve beaten OSU - in a fair competition.
But again, you seem to want to blame someone else for this. They had in their budget for signs stealing trips for Georgia games and over the last three years, eight sign stealing trips against Ohio State.
Trust me, the rest of college football won’t stand for that. You’re just too fucking stupid to see it.
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Pretty clear the NCAA is leaking in almost real time. Reports of Michigan staff connecting to some server came after examining Stalions' laptop.
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/legendary-coach-bob-stoops-rips-michigan-for-alleged-sign-stealing/ar-AA1iQXiT
your missing it. I can find a lot of these.
When you won because you had a distinct, illegal advantage of knowing the other teams play calls on a play-to-play basis, did you really win.
my guess is the University will beg for Mercy. They are caught red handed. They will offer up a Harbaugh but that probably won’t be enough because Harbaugh was going to likely leave anyway.
Oh if that fat over the hill piece of shit Bob Stoops says it, it must be true! I can show you 10x as many coaches and players who have said big deal, nothing to see here.
Michigan didn’t win because they stole signs, they’ve been winning and beating the absolute shit out of teams like Ohio State because they have been far more physical and dominant at the lines of scrimmage. It’s really that simple.
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As far as I am concerned- Harbaugh has neve beaten OSU - in a fair competition.
But again, you seem to want to blame someone else for this. They had in their budget for signs stealing trips for Georgia games and over the last three years, eight sign stealing trips against Ohio State.
Trust me, the rest of college football won’t stand for that. You’re just too fucking stupid to see it.
LOL. Right.
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Michigan AD Manuel should tell the NCAA today they are suspending all cooperation until they fix the leak problem.
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Harbaugh's not going anywhere.
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As far as I am concerned- Harbaugh has neve beaten OSU - in a fair competition.
But again, you seem to want to blame someone else for this. They had in their budget for signs stealing trips for Georgia games and over the last three years, eight sign stealing trips against Ohio State.
Trust me, the rest of college football won’t stand for that. You’re just too fucking stupid to see it.
Talk about denial…holy fucking shit.
yeah, sorry don’t trust you. very little is going to come of this in way of punishment. Slap on the wrist. Please don’t be on suicide watch after Jeems beats the absolute shit out Cryin Ryan’s jelly do night soft band of merrymen and when nothing major comes of this. Slap on the wrist.
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https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/columnists/bob-wojnowski/2023/10/25/wojo-michigans-sign-stealing-fiasco-looks-worse-and-worse/71315512007/
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Talk about denial…holy fucking shit.
yeah, sorry don’t trust you. very little is going to come of this in way of punishment. Slap on the wrist. Please don’t be on suicide watch after Jeems beats the absolute shit out Cryin Ryan’s jelly do night soft band of merrymen and when nothing major comes of this. Slap on the wrist.
My word. You guys are frothing at the mouth 😂
It’s like Wojo said- what the punishment is in when it comes is really not the important thing. Michigan’s run of success. Here is now tinted and other than dumb ass Michigan fans, nobody believes it.
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I figure when one party attempts to sweep this under some the rug that "everybody does it", it might well be ultra serious.
Of course, the other parties will likely attempt to magnify it in response, leaving us with something in the middle that might approach reality.
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I'd put it at better than 50-50 that JH is not the Michigan coach next season.
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https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/michigan-football-sign-stealing-scandal-news-updates-as-evidence-mounts-in-alleged-cheating-investigation/live/
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There should be a cage match between Coach Harbaugh and the leaking dick at the NCAA.
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None of the above.
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Doesn’t it bother you that this was going on?
It is apparently a fools errand to expect any Michigan "man" to be bothered by cheating.
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Let's stipulate for the moment that the public evidence is mostly correct (and that may not be the case, or it could be worse). I'd opine this would result in major penalties, forfeited wins over a period of years, fines, ban on post season play for X years, maybe 3, scholarship reductions, lack of institutional control and show cause penalties, and probably a nearly complete dismissal of the staff. I view it as a major violation not seen in CFB in years. I could be wrong of course.
It would be short of the DP, but not by much. The key would be, I think, linking the "stealing evidence" to specific coach actions in games. If that happens, and it might, it would be "bad". JH would have his safety net in the NFL of course. His assistants wouldn't be nearly as lucky.
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Was that the one I went to and met you all beforehand? 2016?
Yep, you got there on Saturday and we went to the game. 2016, yes.
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None of the above.
Same.
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I don't think he coaches at Michigan next season
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Maybe this all blows over and is a nothing, forgotten in a few weeks. maybe.
I'd guess not.
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everyone does sign stealing
no one has done sign stealing like this
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Michigan AD Manuel should tell the NCAA today they are suspending all cooperation until they fix the leak problem.
Oh I hope he does!
However, if my school had committed DP level cheating I'd want my Athletic Director to take responsibility, be apologetic, and beg for mercy.
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When none of the Harbaugh/Michigan penalty fantasies materialize the meltdown in the Buckeye fans base will be beyond epic.
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not
Jimmy is toast
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Harbaugh's not going anywhere.
disagree. he's going to the NFL, especially if Michigan is legit and they win the natty. his ultimate goal is to win a super bowl.
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I'd put it at better than 50-50 that JH is not the Michigan coach next season.
agreed. he's off to the nfl imo.
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I'll put my money on a Michigan fan base meltdown
when the gavel falls
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agreed. he's off to the nfl imo.
Depends on what the findings are here. If he has that baggage, he might be a hands-off for a bit for some teams.
I guess he could go to New England. ;)
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When none of the Harbaugh/Michigan penalty fantasies materialize the meltdown in the Buckeye fans base will be beyond epic.
100%. they are creaming in their pants over this. going to be funny to see them cry when all Michigan gets is a slap on the wrist.
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I don't see how anyone can realistically claim this absolutely is not a thing. It may not end up being much, but I think it clearly is a real thing, likely to result in some punishment, and fairly likely to result in something rather dire.
But it will be a while.
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or New Orleans
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I thought it was a little funny how Harbaugh at Stanford liked to irritate Pete Carroll at USC, and then when Carroll left for Seattle, Harbaugh soon went to the Niners, almost like he was following him around so he could keep irritating him.
That's probably the basis for a dream I had several years ago in which Saban retired from Alabama, so they brought in Pete Carroll to replace him, and then LSU hired Harbaugh, because he wanted to be in the same division with Pete again.
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Depends on what the findings are here. If he has that baggage, he might be a hands-off for a bit for some teams.
I guess he could go to New England. ;)
LOL. Nah.
NFL teams literally will not give a flying rats ass about any of this absolute bullshit. An NFL team will offer him a job and he'll take it. Case closed.
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I don't see how anyone can realistically claim this absolutely is not a thing. It may not end up being much, but I think it clearly is a real thing, likely to result in some punishment, and fairly likely to result in something rather dire.
But it will be a while.
Jeem will go to the NFL, Stallions will be nailed to the cross, and they'll get a slap on the wrist and that will be that.
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I think that's about the best a michigan fan can hope for
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100%. they are creaming in their pants over this. going to be funny to see them cry when all Michigan gets is a slap on the wrist.
It cracks me up how you dumb ass Michigan people are overlooking the major thing here. You have been busted cheating in the greatest way you can cheat in football. Who cares about Ohio State. Who cares about what your penalty is. I sure don’t.
Your arrogant and condescending nature has been exposed at the highest level and you can’t undo that.
And you as a poster have zero credibility now. You have set on numerous occasions you couldn’t care less if they’re cheating. That tells us all we need to know about you.
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And you as a poster have zero credibility now. You have set on numerous occasions you couldn’t care less if they’re cheating. That tells us all we need to know about you.
He is a true Michigan "man"!
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Can you guys attempt to be respectful of each other? Both sides. Calling each other dumbasses and too stupid. It’s football. It’s a scandal. It’s like all of you need a life event that shatters your world do you can see where this is at on the scale of importance. Nothing wrong with arguing and disagreement, but man, you all have interacted for a long time, don’t sink to this level.
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I second that. None of us know for sure what will happen here, there is a range of possibilities. Anyone claiming to know "for sure" is a "DA".
Heh.
I'm against all over generalizations.
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Can you guys attempt to be respectful of each other? Both sides. Calling each other dumbasses and too stupid. It’s football. It’s a scandal. It’s like all of you need a life event that shatters your world do you can see where this is at on the scale of importance. Nothing wrong with arguing and disagreement, but man, you all have interacted for a long time, don’t sink to this level.
There are not “sides” here. Your two boys here ( and the overwhelming majority of the University of Michigan fan base) are trying really hard to paint it that way. But it has nothing to do with Ohio State, unless you want to talk about the fact that they are the biggest victims in this since Michigan scouted them, or was prepared to scout them and steal signs eight different times!
If there were “sides” it would be integrity versus cheating.
Mdot spends most of his time on this board polishing the scrotum of JJ McCarthy in Michigan with all these impressive stats, etc. I hope he doesn’t do that anymore since pretty much nobody thinks they have credibility.
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Can you guys attempt to be respectful of each other? Both sides. Calling each other dumbasses and too stupid. It’s football. It’s a scandal. It’s like all of you need a life event that shatters your world do you can see where this is at on the scale of importance. Nothing wrong with arguing and disagreement, but man, you all have interacted for a long time, don’t sink to this level.
Yes please.
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When we had our own Michigan Man, we had a brilliant bulwark against stealing our signs, which was to make it pointless and redundant.
Just set up the defense to try and defend the toss dive, and you're in the right play like 90% of the time.
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I think I've been respectful as deluded as I am.
The NCAA leaker nor Ohio State's campaign in the media is going to make a difference. There's better than a 50:50 chance most of the Buckeye fan base is calling for Ryan Day's head by 4 PM Nov. 25th.
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Dear Michigan "men":
I understand your reluctance to believe Ohio State fans so instead, please double check your perception by looking at the neutral fans here.
I haven't seen where any plausibility neutral fan has taken anything close to your "no big deal, everybody does it, it will be a slap on the wrist" view. None.
@betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) suggested vacated wins, postseason bans, and a show cause and that was BEFORE the latest evidence dropped.
@ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) suggested that Harbaugh would not coach another game.
@Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) , @FearlessF (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=10) show me a neutral fan seeing it your way?
This is absolutely the biggest cheating scandal in the modern history of college football. Michigan is going to get hammered.
The only question is timing.
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I think I've been respectful as deluded as I am.
The NCAA leaker nor Ohio State's campaign in the media is going to make a difference. There's better than a 50:50 chance most of the Buckeye fan base is calling for Ryan Day's head by 4 PM Nov. 25th.
I've seen a lot of stuff about how OSU or Ryan Day is responsible. Is that based in anything but rivalry stuff? John U. Bacon was suggesting pointing at some Michigan guy for the NCAA who hates Michigan.
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I try and be neutral, so far as possible. I admit to many possibilities here, and some probabilities. The key lacking piece for me is the connection between stealing signs and on field use of that, and I watched the video which certainly is indicative. I think it best to be patient and await the process, our opinions mean nothing vis a vis that outcome. But it is POSSIBLE this is a major scandal.
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Let's stipulate for the moment that the public evidence is mostly correct (and that may not be the case, or it could be worse). I'd opine this would result in major penalties, forfeited wins over a period of years, fines, ban on post season play for X years, maybe 3, scholarship reductions, lack of institutional control and show cause penalties, and probably a nearly complete dismissal of the staff. I view it as a major violation not seen in CFB in years. I could be wrong of course.
It would be short of the DP, but not by much. The key would be, I think, linking the "stealing evidence" to specific coach actions in games. If that happens, and it might, it would be "bad". JH would have his safety net in the NFL of course. His assistants wouldn't be nearly as lucky.
This is where I'm at.
If the evidence holds up, it's a premeditated, coordinated, institutionally-supported plan to cheat in flagrant and direct violation of the rules.
And based on the outsized success of Michigan ATS, it looks as if it was effective and gave them a significant on-field advantage as a result. Although IMHO even if it didn't, the penalties should be the same.
I would see at minimum vacated wins 2021-2023, show cause for Jim, the OC, and the DC, and Stalions of course, and probably a year postseason ban. The rest of the staff would be cleaned house anyway as they bring in a new coach, so I don't think punishing the lower level assistant coaches makes any sense. They might be a little radioactive to be hired elsewhere but you attack this sort of thing at the top, not at the bottom. I don't know if they'd go any harder on scholarship reductions/etc, because we all know the NCAA likes to protect the moneymakers. But they can't just let this slide.
I don't see this being swept under the rug. The penalties I described above would be about as much of a slap on the wrist as you could theoretically go. The show cause doesn't affect the program; it affects the involved coaches. So that's not punishing the program. Vacated wins are ignored by fans. So that's a "costless" penalty to the program. A one year postseason ban shows you did something, but you can say it's not punishing the new staff unfairly for the sins of the previous staff.
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This is absolutely the biggest cheating scandal in the modern history of college football. Michigan is going to get hammered.
The only question is timing.
Wow. It will take quite a while to adjudicate what happened. Maybe in a couple years unless clear heads at the NCAA prevail and they drop this like the warm Buckeye turd it is.
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I think I've been respectful as deluded as I am.
The NCAA leaker nor Ohio State's campaign in the media is going to make a difference. There's better than a 50:50 chance most of the Buckeye fan base is calling for Ryan Day's head by 4 PM Nov. 25th.
if your going to continue to be deluded- at least get yourself up to speed on the actual pulse of OSU
Fans.
Since Day has the best winning % versus ranked teams, of ALL active coaches, and combined with the numerous “ we owe Day an apology “ threads and posts- you are way off the mark.
That’s what you’re missing here. They know Day had no real shot when the bad guys knew EVERY
Play they were running, on both offense and defense. They no longer believe he was out coached. They no longer believe they were outplayed. In fact- they are posting film breakdowns which most definitely appear that Michigan knew the exact play.
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Wow. It will take quite a while to adjudicate what happened. Maybe in a couple years unless clear heads at the NCAA prevail and they drop this like the warm Buckeye turd it is.
Only a true idiot would deflect the blame when his cheater cheater booger eater was nailed for blatant, systematic cheating- which clearly is the key reason of 2 seasons of perceived success.
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The NCAA's leadership needs to investigate these leaks. The leaks are a violation and heads should roll.
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We need mics in the helmets ASAP. Perhaps this will drive it. Let the conferences decide. If the MAC can't afford it, so be it.
The B1G no longer plays MAC schools. We'll soon see the MAC able afford it.
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The NCAA's leadership needs to investigate these leaks. The leaks are a violation and heads should roll.
The NCAA should roll itself. It's well past its usefulness.
Kansas, Arizona, etc. all cheat with Addidas and only Okie State gets the hammer?
Gimme a break. F the NCAA.
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Only a true idiot would deflect the blame when his cheater cheater booger eater was nailed for blatant, systematic cheating- which clearly is the key reason of 2 seasons of perceived success.
LOL, thanks.
Little is know about what happened. I don't really trust info from a rule breaking NCAA official with an axe to grind. The only Michigan employee defiantly involved was Stalions and he's suspended with pay.
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The NCAA should roll itself. It's well past its usefulness.
Kansas, Arizona, etc. all cheat with Addidas and only Okie State gets the hammer?
Gimme a break. F the NCAA.
Yes- the NCAA is feckless.
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LOL, thanks.
Little is know about what happened. I don't really trust info from a rule breaking NCAA official with an axe to grind. The only Michigan employee defiantly involved was Stalions and he's suspended with pay.
I will agree with you on something. The NCAA is a bad joke- and leaking stuff is unfair to Michigan and disgusting.
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Do we know the origins are with the NCAA? I think some of the info is from other sources, including Michigan itself.
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Do we know the origins are with the NCAA? I think some of the info is from other sources, including Michigan itself.
I haven't seen the source of the numerous leaks. I'd assume it was NCAA with Thamel X-Tweeting. (But I don't know.) So many little tidbits just keep slipping out to keep all of clicking along and generating revenue for the powers to be.
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Ed Zachery
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/395591089_1283609735672429_3599033457985123620_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=co4f-XWkVgcAX_sFIVU&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCqwMgkFmVprwAgZSUpZXpxh4L4KZb7ncaRv6njXWG18g&oe=653F1EF3)
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Can you guys attempt to be respectful of each other? Both sides. Calling each other dumbasses and too stupid. It’s football. It’s a scandal. It’s like all of you need a life event that shatters your world do you can see where this is at on the scale of importance. Nothing wrong with arguing and disagreement, but man, you all have interacted for a long time, don’t sink to this level.
I haven't called anyone here a dumbass or stupid. wouldn't do that. it's just a game. people can say whatever they want to/about me, i literally don't care lol. just like i don't care about this entire bullshit scandal. steal all the signs you want. i don't care. most actual football people don't either.
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It's clearly a violation of NCAA rules, a pretty serious one, to me anyway (if most of what is alleged is true). I think "real football people" do care from what I read and hear.
On Wednesday, The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/10/25/michigan-computers-sign-stealing-evidence/) reported that an external investigative firm tipped off the NCAA with evidence of signal stealing it had obtained from computer drives accessed by Michigan coaches, setting off a new set of questions.
This is on ESPN for what it's worth, but this "external" firm may be the source of any leaks.
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Hey good memes are the best part of any scandal
https://twitter.com/Menace2Sports/status/1717528140170285192?t=64aTakfW87uGRQRBxbggfA&s=19
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Never ceases to amaze me how many scenarios people can fit onto that clip.
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I haven't called anyone here a dumbass or stupid. wouldn't do that. it's just a game. people can say whatever they want to/about me, i literally don't care lol. just like i don't care about this entire bullshit scandal. steal all the signs you want. i don't care. most actual football people don't either.
Come on man. Be real. You do care or you wouldn't have posted this many times on this topic. I fully understand the passion and I understand being defensive until more details come out. I understand the frustration when people pile on and try to claim their program is perfectly clean with a history of many red flags and plenty of smoke. That being said, you care and the language being used back and forth looks like something on Twitter, Eleven Warriors or MGOBlog. This group has disagreed plenty, but let's keep the interactions above juvenile level. It's a better group than that.
The other thing we should be smart about is talking about the specifics of the topic and details of what we know. Bringing up the past of other programs will never help clarity of this situation. I myself can correct that as well. If people are still piling on if you become rational and calm in your approach, then so be it.
And I was wrong about memes as @MaximumSam (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1572) pointed out well.
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And I was wrong about memes as @MaximumSam (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1572) pointed out well.
i mean we are discussing breaking the rules of a game. There's no reason to take any of it seriously. I hope this thread becomes nothing but memes
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On the original CFN board (the one that Pete Fiutak owned), we had a PSU thread that turned into nothing but jokes.
That was a lot of fun and I'm sure @Big Beef Tacosupreme (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1529) remembers it well.
That would work well in this thread, methinks.
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i mean we are discussing breaking the rules of a game. There's no reason to take any of it seriously. I hope this thread becomes nothing but memes
Couldn't agree more which is why my dad hat went on. Too many good humans on this board to start calling each other a-holes and stoopid..
Would enough memes help us convert you back to AAA?
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Would enough memes help us convert you back to AAA?
Couldn't hurt
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I'm also guessing perhaps this is how the computer files were accessed. An unrelated FBI investigation. IIRC this is what brought down Tressell. The tattoo parlor was being investigated for money laundering, and they stumbled upon some NCAA violations. Looks like Michigan's OC was involved in separate computer crimes, and then the NCAA violations were discovered via the subpoena power that the FBI has
https://twitter.com/RealTonyGarcia/status/1717633281720451494?s=20
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IIRC this is what brought down Tressell. The tattoo parlor was being investigated for money laundering, and they stumbled upon some NCAA violations.
I would just add that it was quite a bit stupider than that. The guy they were investigating decided to go see an attorney. Unfortunately, he went to see an attorney who was locally famous for being shady and who also was a walk on linebacker for OSU in the 80's. The attorney, Chris Cicero, who had previously been popped for banging a judge in her chambers and who was at least investigated for helping arrange a hit on a witness, decided to email Tressel everything the guy told him about tattoos. He has since been disbarred.
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https://www.mlive.com/wolverines/2023/10/police-no-connection-between-michigan-sign-stealing-matt-weiss-investigation.html
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https://www.mlive.com/wolverines/2023/10/police-no-connection-between-michigan-sign-stealing-matt-weiss-investigation.html
No, nobody is saying they are connected. But that would explain how this information the Washington Post reported last night might have gotten out. Just like Tattoogate.
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The attorney, Chris Cicero, who had previously been popped for banging a judge in her chambers
Who was popped?
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Who was popped?
I guess they both ended up popped in the end
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I guess they both ended up popped in the end
And now he doesn't have to be an attorney anymore. That's a win-win
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(https://i.imgur.com/1JBHK3i.png)
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for what it's worth,
There's something happening here, what is ain't exactly clear
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There's something happening here, what is ain't exactly clear
Neil Young, if he was to chime in, would say this is the most egregious scandal he's ever seen, and Harbaugh should have had "2 more losses to O - HI - O"
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neil young and crazy horse "toast"
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A Southern man don't need him 'round anyhow...
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Better to burn out than to fade away.
My my, hey hey.
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Michigan's sign stealing program must not be very effective. Iowa scored 14 points against Michigan in 2022 on two offensive touchdowns.
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Michigan's sign stealing program must not be very effective. Iowa scored 14 points against Michigan in 2022 on two offensive touchdowns.
Most Iowa touchdowns are offensive
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https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1717681726166610048?t=SYCRmsMYZ4piAEkKZdNr4Q&s=19
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Also, per the Athletic, Michigan cutoff negotiations on a contract extension that was going to make him the highest paid coach in college football. The greatest tax savings to Michigan residents this year, is the fact that the two largest universities got out of paying a boatload of money to two assholes
Gretchen Whitmers needs a campaign ad where she sells what she's doing for Michigan's middle class is Lance Leipold. Does he have a Brand Binder, or a Manifesto? No. But he will save taxpayers so much money for decent results.
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No, nobody is saying they are connected. But that would explain how this information the Washington Post reported last night might have gotten out. Just like Tattoogate.
I've been wondering about the source here for a while. I've seen multiple Michigan fans blame Ryan Day / Ohio State but that seems extraordinarily unlikely to me.
Just for clarification, I'm not saying this defensively. I wouldn't hold it against Day if he was behind it. Michigan was cheating and if Ohio State's coach managed to prove it, good for him.
Before the WaPo revelations dropped I considered it a possibility but now no way.
I didn't read the full WaPo (paywalled) but apparently an "outside investigative firm" went to the NCAA with documents and videos proving Michigan's cheating. The evidence allegedly came from "computer drives maintained and accessed by multiple Michigan coaches." That almost has to be related to the Weiss termination. AFAIK, Weiss was terminated due to computer access crimes.
So what is going on?
Is Weiss a whistle blower?
Is Weiss a disgruntled former employee with an ax to grind?
My totally off the cuff thinking is that whoever found this had to know what they were looking for which is why Weiss seems like an obvious possibility.
If it wasn't someone who knew what they were looking for then it almost had to be an investigator with the resources to study entire drives, but why?
It seems like knowing what Weiss is accused of would clarify a lot of things.
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https://twitter.com/TonyGerdeman/status/1717707481038692645?t=Yg84CeX7HaQcKn1X56Mn7A&s=19
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/395265642_18103646800344868_6876591232566346381_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=5aY4FM7SIYcAX-V_fwj&_nc_oc=AQnrxDXVd0YreAyZXsk8sgXJWg-l8ateoWeFzk8lSsDoWAX5oHYLqODZgw-zSq1JO1U&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfB71Ebpk09qrX2TSy4UMM4YqCmW8Jf8ZSMbNM-NL968bQ&oe=65400A3B)
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None of the above.
Their top ten seasons were back before the Civil War.
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The evidence appears very damning in part because he claims he didn't know, which dovetails into "lack of cooperation" because it is hard to believe Jim Harbaugh didn't know.
I voted "Gone at end of season." However, as I ruminate on this a bit, I suspect the rule changes and scouts will be allowed at NCAA football games, and open practices, and this will be viewed as a very minor matter.
That said, Iowa could use an offensive coordinator, and Harbaugh, who grew up in Iowa until about age 7, (his dad was an assistant coach here), would fit right into the OC or HC positions. Smile.
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Idk what the big deal is. I assume every program above middle school does this.
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Neil Young sucks.
That is all.
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Idk what the big deal is. I assume every program above middle school does this.
High schools spend tens of thousand of dollars on a scheme in direct violation of the Rules?
I don't think this is at all true.
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I find it fascinating that TCU reportedly altered their signs ahead of the game, a thing which would explain a lot.
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Neil Young sucks.
That is all.
So does Steve Perry
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I read up, a slight bit, on this Taylor Swift phenomenon, which I profess to not understanding, and not caring (beyond some idle curiosity).
I wonder how much the fact that she's pretty good looking has to do with her musical success. I cannot name or hum any of her songs.
I gather it's kind of elevator music.
Maybe she's a UM fan?
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So does Steve Perry
Born and raised in South Detroit.
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Lovin, Touchin’, Squeezin’
Who’s Cryin’ Now
What a sniveling poof
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Made a lot of money.
Hairband, but not exactly a bunch of good looking fellas.
(https://i.imgur.com/9vCUjLO.jpg)
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I read up, a slight bit, on this Taylor Swift phenomenon, which I profess to not understanding, and not caring (beyond some idle curiosity).
I wonder how much the fact that she's pretty good looking has to do with her musical success. I cannot name or hum any of her songs.
I gather it's kind of elevator music.
Maybe she's a UM fan?
I'm honestly curious about this too. I wouldn't think so since her fanbase, AFAIK, skews female, straight, and young.
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I figure stars need a break at some point, I'd guess there are 1,000 singers as capable, maybe more so, but if they are ugly or boring, they probably get no break early on to catch fire. If they are pretty, some guy with influence may give them said break.
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Idk what the big deal is. I assume every program above middle school does this.
There is one thing about this debate that some don’t seem to understand.
who knew? Rogue assistant? Everybody does it? Etc. good debates I suppose.
what is being missed is- the incredible degree to which this elaborate knowledge of signs gave a competitive advantage. Let me explain
And going into this explanation- reminding everyone of what you already know-
-today’s CFB offenses (and NFL) are predicated on understanding what the defensive alignment an movements are, and creating mismatches, or “ outnumbered areas of the field, and most often, run/pass conflict for the defense.
-conversely, defenses are based on disguising their actual alignments and assignments.
That’s it. This is why in most 3rd and 10 situations you see so many sacks— the defense does not have to worry about a run, they can charge the QB without fear. Same with a 3rd and 1, They can stack the box with numbers, knowing statistically the odds of a run are extremely high.
So, let’s use a real example of a play call:
2-6
Mountain
2 Rip
6 turtle
Y American
Z home
taco.
The 2-6 is original formation for a RB and Slot player
Mountain is the Formation for the offensive line and tight end
Rip is the motion for the slot
turtle is the RB from QB’s Left side to his right
Y American is a pass route (Flag lol)
X Home is a pass route ( post )
Taco is the snap count. ( on 3)
All these shifts, in motions -are designed to give the QB a better idea of what the defense is running. Are they in man? The motion will tell them that. Is a LB blitzing? The shift MIGHT tell them that.
Now- let’s use the most common way to signal that in. You can see- the signals are complex and very elaborate. It takes months for the players to actually learn the signals. In some cases, many players don’t actually ever learn them, but rely on another player on the field to communicate them.
What most teams will do to signal the play is to have three different signal. People sending the signals in with arm and hand motions. Only the players know which of the three signal errors is the hot read. It could be based on what down it is so signal. Caller number one is the read on first down and signal collar to on second down. Or it could be something as simple as signal caller two is the hot read during the second quarter. Another way they might do it is which of the signal collars is standing with his feet close together.
When a coach wants to change things up to make it harder for their signs to be stolen, there’s very little they can do in the short term with the actual play calls, so they generally tweak how and who the heart read signal caller is.
This is why I agree that sign stealing during a game is common, and everybody tries to do It. It just isn’t all that helpful. By the time you figure out who the “hot” signal caller is- if you do at all- the game is half over, and even then you still don’t know what the signals mean.
Now- if you video record the signals ahead of time- and subsequent play that follows, and you can watch the video over and over- hitting the rewind option repeatedly- for weeks, you can easily figure out what a team is doing to choose their “ hot” signal caller, but more importantly it would be easy to know exactly what the signals mean.
Now you know run or pass so you no longer have to worry about run/ pass conflict. You know the routes the receivers are going to run, and you even know the shifts and motions. And/ and this is huge- you know the snap count!!
And run that all in reverse as an offensive coordinator- who knows the defensive calls of the other team.
I would guesstimate that for two relatively even matched teams- if one team truly know just a high % of the opponent signals, at this level, the opponent has very little chance of winning.
So that part of this debate ( that this sustained elaborate video taping ahead of time) doesn’t give an advantage. Based on my playing experience, coaching experience and just common sense,
it is a game changer.
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Whether everyone does it or not is immaterial anyway (and I don't think it's true either). It's major, and a major rules violation. Michigan already suspended the individual, so they accept what he did was wrong. The aha! for me was, if true, that TCU switched out there signals and retained the old ones as a ruse. I had really been mystified that TCU could stay with UM in that game, now it starts to make some sense.
Maybe Kirby switched as well, he hasn't said so.
Again, if all this is mostly true and was used in games by the OC and DC, UM is in a world of major hurt in my opinion.
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Also, per the Athletic, Michigan cutoff negotiations on a contract extension that was going to make him the highest paid coach in college football. The greatest tax savings to Michigan residents this year, is the fact that the two largest universities got out of paying a boatload of money to two assholes
Gretchen Whitmers needs a campaign ad where she sells what she's doing for Michigan's middle class is Lance Leipold. Does he have a Brand Binder, or a Manifesto? No. But he will save taxpayers so much money for decent results.
tax payers don't pay coaches salaries at the major schools...
Oh and Gretchen Whitmer should jump off a bridge. F that lady. Seriously.
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I find it fascinating that TCU reportedly altered their signs ahead of the game, a thing which would explain a lot.
it wouldn't explain anything. MOST teams change signs frequently in-season. Only the stupid ones don't...
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it wouldn't explain anything. MOST teams change signs frequently in-season. Only the stupid ones don't...
I disagree, I think it might well explain a lot, if they hoisted the old signs to mislead the UM OC/DC.
And it's possible this is a canard also. Maybe UGA did it as well, they kind of seemed to know what was about to happen at times.
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it wouldn't explain anything. MOST teams change signs frequently in-season. Only the stupid ones don't...
You keep saying this, I'm going to address it.
First, whether or not teams change signals is not related to whether or not Michigan cheated. Barring that multiple news organizations are flat out lying, Michigan cheated. Full stop.
Second, can we please think critically about this. I've seen comments, for example, that a team changed their signals at halftime.
There simply is no way that teams are devising and implementing completely new signals systems at halftime. Realistically, they probably aren't even doing that in a week.
Remember here that every guy on the team has to learn the new system. You don't merely have to train your smartest guy nor even your average guy. A convoy is only as fast as it's slowest ship and similarly your signals system can only be as complex and quickly changed as the slowest guy on the team can keep up with.
Given the limitations outlined above, my guess is that most teams, as a practical matter, utilize a finite number of signals systems. Typically teams have three guys signaling with one live and two dummies. A logical match would be to have three signals systems, one for each signaler.
One of the advantages of cheating by conducting prohibited advance in-person scouting and utilizing prohibited electronic devices is that Michigan may well have been able to determine the number of systems and decipher all of them in advance.
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I'm also guessing perhaps this is how the computer files were accessed. An unrelated FBI investigation. IIRC this is what brought down Tressell. The tattoo parlor was being investigated for money laundering, and they stumbled upon some NCAA violations. Looks like Michigan's OC was involved in separate computer crimes, and then the NCAA violations were discovered via the subpoena power that the FBI has
yeah that's basically the only time anything major comes from punishment from the NCAA....unrelated federal investigations.
NCAA has no subpoena power. They can't prove shit unless there are traitors from within a program who co-operate with them.
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(https://i.imgur.com/2NudULw.jpg)
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Made a lot of money.
Hairband, but not exactly a bunch of good looking fellas.
hairband because of their locks not their riffs
pop muzik
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yes, teams have multiple signs systems and sometimes will change them at the half if they think the opponent is using them
Rhule mentioned that he understands that his staff is on the east sideline, the press box is on the west sideline. Opposing coaches have a great view of their signals.
Osborne and others have mentioned it in the past.
Trev Alberts is looking into changing the home team to the west sideline next season.
it's long over due for radios in the helmets
but, obviously that won't completely stop sign stealing and trying to gain an advantage
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They should ban coaches calling the plays. And substitutions.
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They should ban coaches calling the plays. And substitutions.
They should ban plays. Full school yard football, all 10 guys just go make up your own route
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I would like that
back in the 70's Fran Tarkenton ran the offense, not Bud Grant or the O-coordinator
of course, then the QB would have to be intelligent and not just an athlete - the horror!
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They should ban plays. Full school yard football, all 10 guys just go make up your own route
draw the play in the dirt in the huddle!
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I'll say again, if most of this is true, and Michigan used this to advantage, they are in serious trouble, the sort of trouble that COULD knock them back into mediocrity for a decade or more.
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yes, teams have multiple signs systems and sometimes will change them at the half if they think the opponent is using them
Rhule mentioned that he understands that his staff is on the east sideline, the press box is on the west sideline. Opposing coaches have a great view of their signals.
Osborne and others have mentioned it in the past.
Trev Alberts is looking into changing the home team to the west sideline next season.
it's long over due for radios in the helmets
but, obviously that won't completely stop sign stealing and trying to gain an advantage
I posted this in the Harbaugh thread.
not trying to be inflammatory- but just using real examples to illustrate why this “ accusation “, if true, gives a HUGE advantage:
at 12:53:07 AM (https://www.cfb51.com/big-ten/harbaugh's-tenure/msg558798/#msg558798)
Idk what the big deal is. I assume every program above middle school does this.
There is one thing about this debate that some don’t seem to understand.
who knew? Rogue assistant? Everybody does it? Etc. good debates I suppose.
what is being missed is- the incredible degree to which this elaborate knowledge of signs gave a competitive advantage. Let me explain
And going into this explanation- reminding everyone of what you already know-
-today’s CFB offenses (and NFL) are predicated on understanding what the defensive alignment an movements are, and creating mismatches, or “ outnumbered areas of the field, and most often, run/pass conflict for the defense.
-conversely, defenses are based on disguising their actual alignments and assignments.
That’s it. This is why in most 3rd and 10 situations you see so many sacks— the defense does not have to worry about a run, they can charge the QB without fear. Same with a 3rd and 1, They can stack the box with numbers, knowing statistically the odds of a run are extremely high.
So, let’s use a real example of a play call:
2-6
Mountain
2 Rip
6 turtle
Y American
Z home
taco.
The 2-6 is original formation for a RB and Slot player
Mountain is the Formation for the offensive line and tight end
Rip is the motion for the slot
turtle is the RB from QB’s Left side to his right
Y American is a pass route (Flag lol)
X Home is a pass route ( post )
Taco is the snap count. ( on 3)
All these shifts, in motions -are designed to give the QB a better idea of what the defense is running. Are they in man? The motion will tell them that. Is a LB blitzing? The shift MIGHT tell them that.
Now- let’s use the most common way to signal that in. You can see- the signals are complex and very elaborate. It takes months for the players to actually learn the signals. In some cases, many players don’t actually ever learn them, but rely on another player on the field to communicate them.
What most teams will do to signal the play is to have three different signal. People sending the signals in with arm and hand motions. Only the players know which of the three signal errors is the hot read. It could be based on what down it is so signal. Caller number one is the read on first down and signal collar to on second down. Or it could be something as simple as signal caller two is the hot read during the second quarter. Another way they might do it is which of the signal collars is standing with his feet close together.
When a coach wants to change things up to make it harder for their signs to be stolen, there’s very little they can do in the short term with the actual play calls, so they generally tweak how and who the heart read signal caller is.
This is why I agree that sign stealing during a game is common, and everybody tries to do It. It just isn’t all that helpful. By the time you figure out who the “hot” signal caller is- if you do at all- the game is half over, and even then you still don’t know what the signals mean.
Now- if you video record the signals ahead of time- and subsequent play that follows, and you can watch the video over and over- hitting the rewind option repeatedly- for weeks, you can easily figure out what a team is doing to choose their “ hot” signal caller, but more importantly it would be easy to know exactly what the signals mean.
Now you know run or pass so you no longer have to worry about run/ pass conflict. You know the routes the receivers are going to run, and you even know the shifts and motions. And/ and this is huge- you know the snap count!!
And run that all in reverse as an offensive coordinator- who knows the defensive calls of the other team.
I would guesstimate that for two relatively even matched teams- if one team truly know just a high % of the opponent signals, at this level, the opponent has very little chance of winning.
So that part of this debate ( that this sustained elaborate video taping ahead of time) doesn’t give an advantage. Based on my playing experience, coaching experience and just common sense,
it is a game changer.
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Idk what the big deal is. I assume every program above middle school does this.
many might try to steal some signs during a game or on exchanged film from previous games
this is much different than that
sending spies into other stadiums to film opposing teams signs and signals is what we're talkin bout
you know, Astros and Patriots type of cheating
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I'll say again, if most of this is true, and Michigan used this to advantage, they are in serious trouble, the sort of trouble that COULD knock them back into mediocrity for a decade or more.
Meh,they were getting there next year anyway.They rise up every two decades or so 🤩
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I read up, a slight bit, on this Taylor Swift phenomenon, which I profess to not understanding, and not caring (beyond some idle curiosity).
I wonder how much the fact that she's pretty good looking has to do with her musical success. I cannot name or hum any of her songs.
I gather it's kind of elevator music.
Maybe she's a UM fan?
My wife says it is because she is a story teller in her songs.
My wife made me go to a Taylor Swift concert once. We got there early and I went to our seats and she went to the restroom. In the meantime about dozen or so pre-teen girls started occupying the seat around me. I looked like a old pediphile. I think the only male there about my age was a janitor collecting trash.
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My wife says it is because she is a story teller in her songs.
Yeah. She has a rather pedestrian singing voice, but she's an excellent songwriter. I really only know her older country stuff, not the newer stuff, but that's always been her claim to fame. She'll be writing a burner when she and Kelce split, I'm sure...
My 11yo daughter is in prime Swiftie mode right now. My wife is actually going to take her to the Swift concert movie next weekend (she--the 11yo--already saw it once with friends but one of my wife's adult friends wants to go and has nobody to go with, so the three of them are going together).
IMHO this is one of those areas where it's about more than songwriting talent, however. I think to an extent Swifties are Swifties to fit in with all the other Swifties, i.e. literally every tween and teen girl that isn't goth.
@utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) what's your take? I know your daughter is older than mine... Not sure how big Swift is in that demographic?
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I really really like the idea of turning the Michigan thread into the Swiftie thread!!!!
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Yep.
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Yeah. She has a rather pedestrian singing voice, but she's an excellent songwriter. I really only know her older country stuff, not the newer stuff, but that's always been her claim to fame. She'll be writing a burner when she and Kelce split, I'm sure...
My 11yo daughter is in prime Swiftie mode right now. My wife is actually going to take her to the Swift concert movie next weekend (she--the 11yo--already saw it once with friends but one of my wife's adult friends wants to go and has nobody to go with, so the three of them are going together).
IMHO this is one of those areas where it's about more than songwriting talent, however. I think to an extent Swifties are Swifties to fit in with all the other Swifties, i.e. literally every tween and teen girl that isn't goth.
@utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) what's your take? I know your daughter is older than mine... Not sure how big Swift is in that demographic?
My 16yo daughter likes Taylor Swift well enough, but I wouldn't classify her as a Swiftie. She's a band nerd and so a little more eclectic in her musical tastes. She's more into small indy rock and alternative bands and singer/songwriter kind of stuff. And of course she also still loves 80s music, because I raised her properly.
I do think a lot of those girls are just going along with the pop phenomenon, which is natural at that age. I mean, that's why it's called "pop music" right?
My own personal take on Taylor Swift is a little different though. Personally I don't find her singing voice to be "pedestrian" at all-- it's actually quite good. And she's a fantastic songwriter. More than that, she's an outstanding performer. I've actually been to a Taylor Swift concert-- she played during the United States Grand Prix at Circuit of the Americas back in 2016 I think. As a performer she came across as sincere, charming, and relatable. The only music of hers I knew at the time was some of her original country stuff, and she played some of that alone, either on her guitar or on the piano. But even her huge pop numbers with a full band, came across as earnest and engaging.
Honestly I put it in my top 5 shows I've ever attended, and living in Austin I've been to a LOT of shows. I was completely blown away, which was totally unexpected.
Also, it doesn't hurt that she's pretty cute.
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I could probably quote every single Swift song, I have heard them so many times. If my wife starts the music playing in the house before I do, it is almost all Taylor Swift and John Mayer.
If I get to it first it is classic rock.
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Personally I don't find her singing voice to be "pedestrian" at all-- it's actually quite good.
Maybe I should better explain what I mean by "pedestrian". She's got a good voice. I don't think she could get to where she is if she didn't have a good voice. I'm not criticizing her ability to sing. She's talented.
But I just don't see anything particularly strong or unique about her singing voice. She's never going to be the vocal powerhouse of an Adele, Gaga, or Aguilera. She doesn't have a unique voice like an Amy Winehouse, Sia, Amy Lee, Dolores O'Riordan.
She's got a good voice. She doesn't have a "special" one.
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Like Neil Young
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He sucks.
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Geddy Lee?
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What's the question?
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Maybe I should better explain what I mean by "pedestrian". She's got a good voice. I don't think she could get to where she is if she didn't have a good voice. I'm not criticizing her ability to sing. She's talented.
But I just don't see anything particularly strong or unique about her singing voice. She's never going to be the vocal powerhouse of an Adele, Gaga, or Aguilera. She doesn't have a unique voice like an Amy Winehouse, Sia, Amy Lee, Dolores O'Riordan.
She's got a good voice. She doesn't have a "special" one.
I guess? I suppose I don't place as much emphasis on having a "special" voice as you do? Because I like Taylor Swift's music about 1000X more than Adele, Gaga, and Aguilera.
I did dig Amy Winehouse though. Certainly a talented and unique singer and also a sad story.
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I really liked Ella Fitzgerald back in the day. I kinda like Bonnie Rae at times. It's nearly all classical around here now.
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I guess? I suppose I don't place as much emphasis on having a "special" voice as you do? Because I like Taylor Swift's music about 1000X more than Adele, Gaga, and Aguilera.
I did dig Amy Winehouse though. Certainly a talented and unique singer and also a sad story.
Yeah, I don't like much of Gaga or Aguilera's music in general... Not my genre. I think they've got amazing voices tho. Obv I am a big fan of Adele.
Again, this is not a criticism of Swift. There are some artists who are famous largely because of their voice, like Adele. There are other artists who are famous because of the music, or the songwriting, or the performing, or perhaps a combination of all of that, like Swift.
I was responding to "why is Swift so popular" and saying that a huge portion of it was her songwriting. When people talk about Taylor Swift, that's usually the first thing they talk about.
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Why is beta so negative on Swift? He must really hate her.
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Madonna wrote all her own stuff, correct?
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I wouldn't admit to it if I were her
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I looked up some TS song lines, I think I'm missing context here.
10 of the Most Poetic Taylor Swift Lyrics - American Songwriter (https://americansongwriter.com/10-of-the-most-poetic-taylor-swift-lyrics/)
[color=var(--g1-itxt-color)] You can plan for a change in the weather and time / but I never planned on you changing your mind (“Last Kiss” From Speak Now)[/color]
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🤮
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/394624378_874388757385311_733396102846116632_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=9LZkVg0wcsgAX8lgkaK&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBHlA6vRfBGr0t6AvBNdniiAy2ZJIG4QLWDrQZIT_J76g&oe=6541D1A3)
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/394624378_874388757385311_733396102846116632_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=9LZkVg0wcsgAX8lgkaK&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBHlA6vRfBGr0t6AvBNdniiAy2ZJIG4QLWDrQZIT_J76g&oe=6541D1A3)
Call me a cynic but . . .
Do you think there is a chance that this relationship is completely fake and that the NFL paid them to fake it as an outreach to a demographic where they are fairly weak?
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perhaps
I wonder how much money State Farm has offered to have her not wearing Khakis like Jim and Jake???
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The Rolling Stones’ Keith Richards calls modern music ‘a one-way toilet’. “Don’t get me going on modern-day music. Push-button drums and everything is synthesised. Digital recording is a one-way toilet.”
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Call me a cynic but . . .
Do you think there is a chance that this relationship is completely fake and that the NFL paid them to fake it as an outreach to a demographic where they are fairly weak?
I don't think Taylor Swift is that hard up for money
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Call me a cynic but . . .
Do you think there is a chance that this relationship is completely fake and that the NFL paid them to fake it as an outreach to a demographic where they are fairly weak?
I like the way you think.
Good answer. Like the way you think. - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KgAilTTZnQ)
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Back to School (1986) - Professor Terguson Loses It Scene (5/12) | Movieclips - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9DO26O6dIg)
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The Rolling Stones’ Keith Richards calls modern music ‘a one-way toilet’. “Don’t get me going on modern-day music. Push-button drums and everything is synthesised. Digital recording is a one-way toilet.”
Well the Rolling Stones are average-to-shitty rock music, so I take that as a compliment to modern music.
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Madonna wrote all her own stuff, correct?
I heard Like A Virgin was autobiographical (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRd2gti9rHE)...
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This is what multi million dollar pay outs for the play offs is doing to college football
Cheating at all levels is rampant in college football up to and including offciating. Michigan is again under investigation by the NCAA for recording opposing team signs but it probably won't come to any thing.
They supposedly passed on the information on TN to South Carolina last year before the game.
snip:
Michigan sign-stealing investigation, explained
The NCAA’s probe centers around alleged in-person scouting from Michigan.
Rigorously preparing for an upcoming opponent is central to the work done by college football teams and their coaches over the course of the season. To help with that task, programs are provided with video footage to scout teams they’re preparing to play.
What separates the Wolverines in this case is that they allegedly went beyond those traditional means of scouting. Anonymous sources cited by Yahoo claimed they used “unnamed individuals” to attend games of scheduled opponents and potential College Football Playoff foes to collect information on the signs used by those teams for their offensive and defensive plays. The Athletic reported Thursday (https://theathletic.com/4978212/2023/10/19/michigan-football-sign-stealing-michigan-state/?source=twitterhq) that the Big Ten claims that Michigan used a “vast network” to steal opposing teams' signs.
Football teams often use hand signals and sign cards with pictures to relay a play call to the quarterback or defensive captain from the sideline.
Update (Oct. 23): Stalions purchased tickets in his own name at more than 30 Big Ten games at 11 different schools over the past three years, according to a report Monday from ESPN (https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38727023/u-m-staffer-bought-tickets-11-schools), which cited unnamed sources at 11 different schools.
According to the same ESPN report, the NCAA is expected to receive video evidence this week of Stalions illegally using technology to scout opponents as it relates to the tickets he purchased. A source told ESPN that in-stadium surveillance footage from an opposing Big Ten school shows someone in the seat tied to Stalion's ticket holding his smartphone up the entire game and appearing to film the home team's sideline throughout.
Michigan sign-stealing investigation: What to know on Harbaugh, NCAA (usatoday.com) (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/bigten/2023/10/20/michigan-football-jim-harbaugh-sign-stealing-investigation-ncaa/71258883007/)
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Yeah, I don't like much of Gaga or Aguilera's music in general... Not my genre. I think they've got amazing voices tho. Obv I am a big fan of Adele.
Again, this is not a criticism of Swift. There are some artists who are famous largely because of their voice, like Adele. There are other artists who are famous because of the music, or the songwriting, or the performing, or perhaps a combination of all of that, like Swift.
I was responding to "why is Swift so popular" and saying that a huge portion of it was her songwriting. When people talk about Taylor Swift, that's usually the first thing they talk about.
Yeah I was probably be being a little hard on Adele. I like her music well enough. It's not really my thing but she certainly has a great voice.
I just don't overly care about having a "great" voice. Though, it certainly needs to be better than Neil Young for me to be able to tolerate it. :)
And I know you're not criticizing T Swizzle, I'm just providing my response, as you requested. :)
Having seen Swift live, she's truly a remarkable performer. I'm not exaggerating when I say she's in my Top 5, and I've seen a LOT of great acts.
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You just like how she looks.
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Madonna wrote all her own stuff, correct?
I wouldn't brag about it,when Sean Penn was on SNL and Dana Carvey as the Church Lady ripped the ne'er do well. It's still on YouTube I think,"The Madonna is the precious mother of our Lord not some loose floozie stutting across a stage" - or sumsuch. In the sketch Penn drops Carvey - pretty funny
https://www.tiktok.com/@gh0st0fg30rg3/video/7043164362894265606
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You just like how she looks.
Not gonna lie, she's an attractive young lady. But so are plenty of others that I have no desire to listen to, so, well, maybe I'm not ALL bad...
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I find it hard to believe teams would not change their signals after every game or not realize during the game that something was up. Who knows? If South Carolina knew Tennessee’s signals and received them from Michigan then both coaches should be terminated immediately.
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This is all being discussed here, once you can get through the main part, which is about Taylor Swift.
2023 Michigan Season Thread (cfb51.com) (https://www.cfb51.com/big-ten/2023-michigan-offseason-thread/)
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This is what multi million dollar pay outs for the play offs is doing to college football
Cheating at all levels is rampant in college football up to and including offciating.
cheating was rampant long before the playoffs and big money
Plenty of history of severe cheating back in the 1800s
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Well the Rolling Stones are average-to-shitty rock music, so I take that as a compliment to modern music.
Swifties are ruining America
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Swifties are ruining America
This explains it all.
Everyone in DC is a Swiftie.
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First time I've heard someone use our government and swift in the same sentence
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Ever hear of "swift boating"?
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There was no cheating in the 1700s?
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Swifties are ruining America
Meh.
Just as in every era, there's good and bad music.
But hearing the skeletal remains of Keith Richards say, about modern music, exactly what the hidebound a-holes of the mid-century said, about using electric guitars and amplified percussion, rather than a big band or symphony orchestra, is neither original nor insightful. Just another egomaniacal, out of touch has-been, who thinks he represents a lot more than he actually does.
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Hey I just realized this is the Michigan off-season thread. Have we already called it quits on the Wolverines for 2023? Dang...
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https://twitter.com/Bry_Mac/status/1716571327308480669?s=20
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ok1yBEuoJKU
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Hey I just realized this is the Michigan off-season thread. Have we already called it quits on the Wolverines for 2023? Dang...
yup.
this is now the Taylor Swift thread.
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Hey I just realized this is the Michigan off-season thread. Have we already called it quits on the Wolverines for 2023? Dang...
with you being an out-of-the-closet Wolvie fan
you should have known
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skeletal remains Just another egomaniacal, out of touch has-been, who thinks he represents a lot more than he actually does.
About time this thread got back to talking about the cheaters in Ann Arbor.
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https://twitter.com/Bry_Mac/status/1716571327308480669?s=20
2021, heck that's when Jim and Stalions went to work
It's OK
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There was no cheating in the 1700s?
No . . .
Only because there was no college football until 1869.
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with you being an out-of-the-closet Wolvie fan
you should have known
But aren't they 8-0 and ranked #2 in the poll?
Seems to me the same people who've been saying for almost a decade that Harbaugh's a crappy coach, are now the ones saying that the Wolverines can't live without him.
That's curious.
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The Rolling Stones’ Keith Richards calls modern music ‘a one-way toilet’. “Don’t get me going on modern-day music. Push-button drums and everything is synthesised. Digital recording is a one-way toilet.”
https://youtu.be/z1HarC0kp_0
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About time this thread got back to talking about the cheaters in Ann Arbor.
Well played, sir!
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But aren't they 8-0 and ranked #2 in the poll?
Seems to me the same people who've been saying for almost a decade that Harbaugh's a crappy coach, are now the ones saying that the Wolverines can't live without him.
That's curious.
I'm not sure about his coaching, but his cheating seems to have improved
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I'm not sure about his coaching, but his cheating seems to have improved
If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'.
-Barry $witzer
(https://i.imgur.com/6BotS2X.png)
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it's impossible to be cheating w/o a game and it's impossible to have a game w/o cheating
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How the heck do you think Georgia Tech defeated Cumberland 222-0 in 1916?
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First time I've heard someone use our government and swift in the same sentence
OK, so that is the post of the year.
Winner take all.
Check is in the mail, swiftly, courtesy of the US postal service.
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hope it gets there
:beer:
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stolen signs!
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big if true
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No . . .
Only because there was no college football until 1869.
If Rutgers has to forfeit the first ever college football game, do they have to take down their Birthplace of College Football banner?
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Meh.
Just as in every era, there's good and bad music.
But hearing the skeletal remains of Keith Richards say, about modern music, exactly what the hidebound a-holes of the mid-century said, about using electric guitars and amplified percussion, rather than a big band or symphony orchestra, is neither original nor insightful. Just another egomaniacal, out of touch has-been, who thinks he represents a lot more than he actually does.
Just please don't make us listen to Taylor Swift
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You know, I've never really understood why Bruce Springsteen is all that.
I have a feeling it's New Yorkers who have made him popular, because New Yorkers think they rule the world.
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Just please don't make us listen to Taylor Swift
"us?" Who do you think it is, that you are you speaking for?
Anyway, as always, listen to what you like. Don't presume anyone else should think it's worth a shit and we'll all get along just fine.
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/391703800_10159930480148233_2437188654424581293_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=596QGcpWadoAX_RwKPE&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBICiUsyWs934p66iJ8vFHt9LzVQ9RuSuIVIMy8-teodQ&oe=65405E96)
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"us?" Who do you think it is, that you are you speaking for?
Human beings with taste in music
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"us?" Who do you think it is, that you are you speaking for?
Anyway, as always, listen to what you like. Don't presume anyone else should think it's worth a shit and we'll all get along just fine.
"we" Who do you think it is, that you are you speaking for? Go listen to Justin Bieber while fans of relevant CFB programs are talking over here
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You know, I've never really understood why Bruce Springsteen is all that.
I have a feeling it's New Yorkers who have made him popular, because New Yorkers think they rule the world.
You ain't a beauty, but hey, you're all right
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"we" Who do you think it is, that you are you speaking for? Go listen to Justin Bieber while fans of relevant CFB programs are talking over here
oh no here come the Beliebers
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Human beings with taste in music
lulzno
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Somewhere Buddy Guy & Stevie Ray are wondering why their clueless rubes of a fanbase sold out 🎸🥁🎤
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I know it has been denied but these revelations almost have to have grown out of the Weiss incident and investigation, right?
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If South Carolina knew Tennessee’s signals and received them from Michigan then both coaches should be terminated immediately.
Bingo.
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/395904309_10231631245352254_5180216507230845461_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=3V7zXVoOirAAX8dtfMz&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAzulK4RWpxCKcZWsG_21Ycev8yIPVZKHhibOg0g2q5xQ&oe=65411ABE)
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I find it hard to believe teams would not change their signals after every game or not realize during the game that something was up. Who knows?
You couldn't possibly train your entire team a completely new signal system each week.
My speculation is that most teams have two or three sets of signals that they rotate through. That may well be why the cheaters planned to scout EIGHT Ohio State games. That way they'd be assured to get all of Ohio State's systems.
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Or Glenn Frey same month
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This is what multi million dollar pay outs for the play offs is doing to college football
Cheating at all levels is rampant in college football up to and including offciating. Michigan is again under investigation by the NCAA for recording opposing team signs but it probably won't come to any thing.
They supposedly passed on the information on TN to South Carolina last year before the game.
snip:
(https://i.imgur.com/4dWsB87.png)
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You couldn't possibly train your entire team a completely new signal system each week.
My speculation is that most teams have two or three sets of signals that they rotate through. That may well be why the cheaters planned to scout EIGHT Ohio State games. That way they'd be assured to get all of Ohio State's systems.
Ed Zachery
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I prefer Glenn, but that's my middle name
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Saw this on an M Board
So the firm is hired by OSU. Nobody currently on staff shared the info. Therefore someone who is no longer on staff provided the info to OSU. Can only be someone who left on bad terms right, and has little to lose? Weiss? Some other analyst or recruiting guy (Dudek?) who shared the info? The traitor D-line coach who went to OSU who shall not be named?
“Some of us may know but most fans won’t” is either Dudek or lower in the hierarchy. Unless it’s a very obscure coach who was hired and left very quickly like Dan Enos (but not him, just someone like him)
Wonder if any connection to carrismyhomeboy/dudek?
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Did NOT have Utee pegged as a Swiftie.
You think you know people....
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Thought he might have a poster of Janice real talented singer
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.ctfassets.net%2F23wh7e5ryr18%2Fphoto-50156%2Fca30e316dfbdc3e80d4377dfa6a39aa5%2F50156-janis-joplin-singing.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=8760f692f27c39687f114d6abf3de766ed8b08823e91dc9511ae920887616bbc&ipo=images) (https://images.ctfassets.net/23wh7e5ryr18/photo-50156/ca30e316dfbdc3e80d4377dfa6a39aa5/50156-janis-joplin-singing.jpg)
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The word spy is silly to me. Guy goes to games and keeps track of something. Frankly, I'm surprised there's a rule against it.
If you're going to use signs and signals, you know - KNOW your opponents are trying to figure them out.
If they figure them out in general, that's on you. If your opponent is simply trying to do so on gameday, that's lazy. I'd be pissed if I found out Florida only tried to figure out the other team's signals during the actual game.
Again, regardless of right or wrong, I confidently assume EVERYONE does this. I can send a guy into a crowd of 80,000 dressed normally to track signals and signs?
YUP! Sign me up.
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Janis is from my neck of the woods here. There's a rock museum or something around here that's supposed to feature her in the exhibits. I've never been. She was pretty good at what she did, I think.....not so much my thing but I don't actively avoid listening to her either.
Buddy of mine is a recording bass player in Nashville who subs in for Swift's guy on occasion if he can't make a show. I told him it's got to be kind of a drag compared to some of the other stuff he does I know is more up his alley. He said if I knew what she pays then I'd understand how quickly "Meh" goes to "Yes ma'am, where and what time?"
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Troll gonna Troll
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The word spy is silly to me. Guy goes to games and keeps track of something. Frankly, I'm surprised there's a rule against it.
If you're going to use signs and signals, you know - KNOW your opponents are trying to figure them out.
If they figure them out in general, that's on you. If your opponent is simply trying to do so on gameday, that's lazy. I'd be pissed if I found out Florida only tried to figure out the other team's signals during the actual game.
Again, regardless of right or wrong, I confidently assume EVERYONE does this. I can send a guy into a crowd of 80,000 dressed normally to track signals and signs?
YUP! Sign me up.
or the guy could be wearing a bright Orange afro wig!
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billionaires can afford a decent bass player
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="zxx" dir="ltr"><a href="https://t.co/u0eZb3czug">pic.twitter.com/u0eZb3czug</a></p>— Laporta Supporta (@carsonbrandon6) <a href="https://twitter.com/carsonbrandon6/status/1717638375169982823?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 26, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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The Stalions family is loaded in case some of you were wondering how a $55k per year staff member could afford all those tickets.
There’s no connection between Signgate and the FBI investigation of former co-OC Matt Weiss email hacking.
Michigan insiders say Thursday’s meeting with the NCAA went well. Michigan will continue to fully cooperate and not parse the rules legalese and agrees with the spirit of the rules.
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You know, I've never really understood why Bruce Springsteen is all that.
I have a feeling it's New Yorkers who have made him popular, because New Yorkers think they rule the world.
Bruce Springsteen sucks.
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or the guy could be wearing a bright Orange afro wig!
Shhhhhh:57:
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Troll gonna Troll
Really???
You don't think OSU does the same thing? Kentucky? South Alabama?
Teams use signals and signs and images to code their calls. An opponent is going to try to beak that code. Duh.
This is yet another instance where I'm flabbergasted by the response here. Some kind of po-dunk naivety silliness.
If you are using codes in any walk of life, yes, your OPPPONENTS are trying to break it. FFS, people.
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yes, this is true
But, the Astros are still looked at as cheaters, along with Belichick
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Sure.
And their crime was.....?.......everybody, all together now........GETTING CAUGHT!
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well, the boss certainly doesn't have the singing voice of Taylor Swift
but, Swift doesn't have the big man, Clarence, on the horn
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yup, it appears Harbaugh got caught
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Bruce Springsteen sucks.
Why don’t you just close threads down instead of derailing them?
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Good point, but closing threads seems kinda harsh to me. Draconian even.
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(https://cdn-p.smehost.net/sites/e8622626f9584d40b1a8fce8dfa6f567/wp-content/uploads/1982/09/springsteen-nebraska-front2.jpg)
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Good point, but closing threads seems kinda harsh to me. Draconian even.
Well someone started this thread because a number of you constructively shut down 2 others.
So just come out and say- we aren’t allowing anyone to discuss it here. Not sure why- but that is obviously the case.
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it's not obvious to me
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We've got like three threads about it, all the thoughts have been thoughted
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Well someone started this thread because a number of you constructively shut down 2 others.
So just come out and say- we aren’t allowing anyone to discuss it here. Not sure why- but that is obviously the case.
Not the case at all buddy.
It wasn't the topic at all.
I look upon us as a band of brothers, friends. And the spirit of the conversation was starting to make me (and probably some others) sad. So, I (and some others) tried to tone down the conversation so we could act like a band of brothers again.
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well, the boss certainly doesn't have the singing voice of Taylor Swift
but, Swift doesn't have the big man, Clarence, on the horn
Unfortunately Clarence isn't on the sax anymore. Interesting fact he played football at Maryland St and had a try out with the BROWNS and the Cowboys but he was in a car wreck that ended any playing career. He played in college with Emerson Boozer and Art Shell
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Kris Kristofferson >>>>>>>>>> Janice Joplin. Never shoulda let that screacher steal his song.
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Kris Kristofferson >>>>>>>>>>Swiftie also
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I like them both. I've seen Kris perform a couple more times than I've seen T Swizzle.
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Not the case at all buddy.
It wasn't the topic at all.
I look upon us as a band of brothers, friends. And the spirit of the conversation was starting to make me (and probably some others) sad. So, I (and some others) tried to tone down the conversation so we could act like a band of brothers again.
Ok badge. We now have 2 threads about the scandal ( how and WHY they were started) that are both about pop artists.
it makes more sense to close them- and if anyone really wants to Talk about pop artists ( highly doubtful)let them start a thread. The way it is now seems childish and condescending. But whatever.
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I hear you and tend to agree. Appreciate the perspective and hindsight for sure.
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Topics have been merged, @Honestbuckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=37) and yes, let's take this back to Michigan discussion among a band of brothers.
Peace.
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Breaking the rules is an infraction, whether one is caught or not.
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The one and only thing that I dislike about my wife is that she often says "rules are make to be broken" with which I completely disagree.
She's a free spirit, for sure. BUT
Rules are made to be followed, period. Full stop.
IF Michigan broke the rules here, they need to pay the consequences - whatever that may be.
Next, we need headsets and mics in helmets. And that's that.
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Well now where the heck are we supposed to discuss popular music???
It sounds to me like HB wants to get his pound of flesh from a rival. I get that. There's not an NCAA program out there that has cheated longer and more thoroughly than Oklahoma, and I'd love to see them called out for that more often as well.
But this just isn't that kind of place. I'm sure there are plenty of all-tOSU message boards where posters are willing to wallow in it forever. That might be a better place to go, to vent your feelings.
If you're posting the same stuff over and over again here, and you're not getting the engagement you want, then I'm not sure what more you want from this message boad?
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and there are rules about derailing threads
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Well now where the heck are we supposed to discuss popular music???
It sounds to me like HB wants to get his pound of flesh from a rival. I get that, there's not an NCAA program out there who has cheated longer and more thoroughly than Oklahoma, and I'd love to see them called out for that more often as well.
But this just isn't that kind of place. I'm sure there are plenty of all-tOSU message boards where posters are willing to wallow in it forever. That might be a better place to go, to vent your feelings.
If you're posting the same stuff over and over again here, and you're not getting the engagement you want, then I'm not sure what more you want from this message boad?
In other news is a catch all, perhaps.
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and there are rules about derailing threads
Are there? Why? That seems silly and childish.
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Well now where the heck are we supposed to discuss popular music???
the backporch, obviously
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Are there? Why? That seems silly and childish.
well, it's not like any of us are childish enough to follow those unwritten rulz
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In other news is a catch all, perhaps.
Nah, too much BS politics in that thread.
Maybe we can do it on a thread that nobody cares about. Purdue Football Season thread or something. I'll have to think about it.
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and there are rules about derailing threads
Drew gave us this place in 2017 and I don't recall ever having posted any rules here. It hasn't been needed as we police ourselves. Band of brothers.
HB policed the derailment, I addressed his point.
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These stories seem to burst onto the scene with a flurry of "news" (leaks mostly) and then some dribs and drabs and a ton of speculation and "analysis" and then a long "quiet period" where not much is revealed/analyzed/known that is new.
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I didn’t want to discuss this topic any more, but my business partner brought up an interesting point. For reference, he is an OSU grad and OSU fan.
While it’s likely Michigan crossed the line and violated rules, how do we know the rest of the staff and players knew how Stalions was figuring out the sign stealing? The sign stealing is legal, so the staff and Harbaugh wouldn’t immediately say that’s wrong or breaking the rules. I think we can all agree that happens almost everywhere.
So what if Stalions pitch was that because of his training, he figured out a way to know the plays coming from video? He takes it to Harbaugh and staff and says he gathers video and has a third party that helps him produce and analyze the video and sometimes there will be additional expresses they have to analyze the video and they have technical expenses to make it happen. Jim asks, you’re doing all this by video? And Stalions confirms. Harbaugh and staff think this guy is a guru and stumbled upon a way for an edge, taking signs by video.
My partner brought this up because we rely on third parties for a lot of areas of our business, some of them vital. We vet them out upfront, go over their process, but also take their word how some of it is being done is exactly what they say. Running a business is overwhelming and our day to day is putting trust in others that they are doing things far from lines being crossed, including our own staff. Yet there isn’t time to babysit every person’s every action. When some of our staff seems incredibly competent and produce at a high level, our trust there is typically even greater.
So here’s the long-winded point. Stalions was having people go into stadiums to film. I would be surprised if that many “sources” are incorrect. It seems like there’s a highly likelihood that Michigan was compensating third party or reimbursing Stalions for the expenses of putting this together. Seems likely as well. But how is it that everyone is so confident Harbaugh and the rest of the staff knew how it was happening and that it was crossing any lines? We don’t! Does anyone think Harbaugh or staff were watching videos taken on a cell phone of opposing coaches. Do they have time for that? Or is it more likely they saw a finished product of what signs would be called, descriptions of it .There’s no concrete evidence either way… Yet. So many are jumping to worst case scenario conclusions because it fits their desire, while Michigan fans defend, deflect and go to best case scenario.
Again, this is an OSU guy that took this position with me, a Michigan guy. He’s younger than me, is more tied into the Stalions generation and his big stance was with technology, AI, the amount of videos, the amount coverage on each football game, we don’t really know that Stalions didn’t claim he had a technology edge, with a team of people to better analyze video data than anyone in the country.
Is my hope best case scenario after talking about this? Yes because no one wants their program to be top to bottom guys that cross lines, but it’s also reasonable to say the average person doesn’t know if this is or is not the case. So while some run around screaming cheaters, until there’s proof, there’s also an argument that can be made that nearly everyone thought they had an edge that was still on the right side of things.
So go ahead and tear that thought apart, but the reality is we simply don’t know the facts yet. We know there’s likely lines crossed, but we don’t know the real story.
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(https://i.imgur.com/hmY4hw7.jpg)
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FWIW, I think that position is dumb.
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Well now where the heck are we supposed to discuss popular music???
It sounds to me like HB wants to get his pound of flesh from a rival. I get that. There's not an NCAA program out there that has cheated longer and more thoroughly than Oklahoma, and I'd love to see them called out for that more often as well.
But this just isn't that kind of place. I'm sure there are plenty of all-tOSU message boards where posters are willing to wallow in it forever. That might be a better place to go, to vent your feelings.
If you're posting the same stuff over and over again here, and you're not getting the engagement you want, then I'm not sure what more you want from this message boad?
To the contrary, I do not want a pound of flesh. If you go back through the threads, you will see that I was reacting as opposed to proactively posting stuff, at least in the beginning.
I am fine leaving it alone if it’s inflammatory or having a debate if it’s respectful.
Besides- there is water under the bridge. Whatever happened- it can’t be undone. No “ punishment” is going to change it.
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(https://i.imgur.com/hmY4hw7.jpg)
Very misleading CDawg. Day wants to play that game more than anyone. That is an idiot fan.
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I didn’t want to discuss this topic any more, but my business partner brought up an interesting point. For reference, he is an OSU grad and OSU fan.
While it’s likely Michigan crossed the line and violated rules, how do we know the rest of the staff and players knew how Stalions was figuring out the sign stealing? The sign stealing is legal, so the staff and Harbaugh wouldn’t immediately say that’s wrong or breaking the rules. I think we can all agree that happens almost everywhere.
So what if Stalions pitch was that because of his training, he figured out a way to know the plays coming from video? He takes it to Harbaugh and staff and says he gathers video and has a third party that helps him produce and analyze the video and sometimes there will be additional expresses they have to analyze the video and they have technical expenses to make it happen. Jim asks, you’re doing all this by video? And Stalions confirms. Harbaugh and staff think this guy is a guru and stumbled upon a way for an edge, taking signs by video.
My partner brought this up because we rely on third parties for a lot of areas of our business, some of them vital. We vet them out upfront, go over their process, but also take their word how some of it is being done is exactly what they say. Running a business is overwhelming and our day to day is putting trust in others that they are doing things far from lines being crossed, including our own staff. Yet there isn’t time to babysit every person’s every action. When some of our staff seems incredibly competent and produce at a high level, our trust there is typically even greater.
So here’s the long-winded point. Stalions was having people go into stadiums to film. I would be surprised if that many “sources” are incorrect. It seems like there’s a highly likelihood that Michigan was compensating third party or reimbursing Stalions for the expenses of putting this together. Seems likely as well. But how is it that everyone is so confident Harbaugh and the rest of the staff knew how it was happening and that it was crossing any lines? We don’t! Does anyone think Harbaugh or staff were watching videos taken on a cell phone of opposing coaches. Do they have time for that? Or is it more likely they saw a finished product of what signs would be called, descriptions of it .There’s no concrete evidence either way… Yet. So many are jumping to worst case scenario conclusions because it fits their desire, while Michigan fans defend, deflect and go to best case scenario.
Again, this is an OSU guy that took this position with me, a Michigan guy. He’s younger than me, is more tied into the Stalions generation and his big stance was with technology, AI, the amount of videos, the amount coverage on each football game, we don’t really know that Stalions didn’t claim he had a technology edge, with a team of people to better analyze video data than anyone in the country.
Is my hope best case scenario after talking about this? Yes because no one wants their program to be top to bottom guys that cross lines, but it’s also reasonable to say the average person doesn’t know if this is or is not the case. So while some run around screaming cheaters, until there’s proof, there’s also an argument that can be made that nearly everyone thought they had an edge that was still on the right side of things.
So go ahead and tear that thought apart, but the reality is we simply don’t know the facts yet. We know there’s likely lines crossed, but we don’t know the real story.
That’s a good post SM.
There are 2 separate and distinct issues here.
1. Did having detailed, comprehensive info regarding the opponents play calls give UM an in game, substantial advantage.
2. who knew- was involved.
so let’s assume for the sake of conversation that your above post is absolutely correct, and that the offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator and head coach had no idea how that knowledge was obtained, or that it was obtained illegally.
So- to question 2, you could make a very valid argument that the coaches should receive little or no sanctions/punishment.
Back to question 1. Because the opponents sideline signals were taped, and can be watched, rewound multiple times - it is the only way the signs can truly be disseminated. You can’t do that from just watching film or even televised games that are taped or the tape that coaches exchange. The only way to do it is to record the sideline signals and the play that was run and study it.
The signals are very sophisticated and complex. They take months to learn and can’t easily be changed. The PROCESS of how you send them in can be- and usually is. That’s why recorded film is key. If you watch it enough, you will eventually figure out a different processes a team has for sending the signals in.
So, even if the coaches didn’t know how he deciphered the signs, I don’t think a remotely credible argument could be made that Michigan did not have a substantial, endgame, play to play advantage during the time in question. And there is plenty of film of Stalions watching the opponent sideline, and quickly relaying that info to both Minter and Sherrone, and even Harbaugh.
And as such- I don’t know how you allow them to claim any titles or play in the postseason. Their wins are based upon a competitive advantage that rendered their opponents substantially less capable of having success.
Also would add-if the reports are true- there was a expense budget and a schedule for these opponents games- and it included taping ( as one example) OSU 8 times and Georgia 4 times, it makes it hard to understand how coaches were not involved- unless the control level was extremely poorly managed.
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I didn’t want to discuss this topic any more, but my business partner brought up an interesting point. For reference, he is an OSU grad and OSU fan.
While it’s likely Michigan crossed the line and violated rules, how do we know the rest of the staff and players knew how Stalions was figuring out the sign stealing? The sign stealing is legal, so the staff and Harbaugh wouldn’t immediately say that’s wrong or breaking the rules. I think we can all agree that happens almost everywhere.
So what if Stalions pitch was that because of his training, he figured out a way to know the plays coming from video? He takes it to Harbaugh and staff and says he gathers video and has a third party that helps him produce and analyze the video and sometimes there will be additional expresses they have to analyze the video and they have technical expenses to make it happen. Jim asks, you’re doing all this by video? And Stalions confirms. Harbaugh and staff think this guy is a guru and stumbled upon a way for an edge, taking signs by video.
My partner brought this up because we rely on third parties for a lot of areas of our business, some of them vital. We vet them out upfront, go over their process, but also take their word how some of it is being done is exactly what they say. Running a business is overwhelming and our day to day is putting trust in others that they are doing things far from lines being crossed, including our own staff. Yet there isn’t time to babysit every person’s every action. When some of our staff seems incredibly competent and produce at a high level, our trust there is typically even greater.
So here’s the long-winded point. Stalions was having people go into stadiums to film. I would be surprised if that many “sources” are incorrect. It seems like there’s a highly likelihood that Michigan was compensating third party or reimbursing Stalions for the expenses of putting this together. Seems likely as well. But how is it that everyone is so confident Harbaugh and the rest of the staff knew how it was happening and that it was crossing any lines? We don’t! Does anyone think Harbaugh or staff were watching videos taken on a cell phone of opposing coaches. Do they have time for that? Or is it more likely they saw a finished product of what signs would be called, descriptions of it .There’s no concrete evidence either way… Yet. So many are jumping to worst case scenario conclusions because it fits their desire, while Michigan fans defend, deflect and go to best case scenario.
Again, this is an OSU guy that took this position with me, a Michigan guy. He’s younger than me, is more tied into the Stalions generation and his big stance was with technology, AI, the amount of videos, the amount coverage on each football game, we don’t really know that Stalions didn’t claim he had a technology edge, with a team of people to better analyze video data than anyone in the country.
Is my hope best case scenario after talking about this? Yes because no one wants their program to be top to bottom guys that cross lines, but it’s also reasonable to say the average person doesn’t know if this is or is not the case. So while some run around screaming cheaters, until there’s proof, there’s also an argument that can be made that nearly everyone thought they had an edge that was still on the right side of things.
So go ahead and tear that thought apart, but the reality is we simply don’t know the facts yet. We know there’s likely lines crossed, but we don’t know the real story.
I get your point but I don't think it matters.
For generations the typical response has been what you are implicitly suggesting here:
- Blame the lowest possible level staffer, in this case Stalions.
- Throw said staffer under the bus.
- Claim (truthfully or not) that the higher ups including the HC were as clueless as Sgt. Schultz (https://youtu.be/34ag4nkSh7Q?si=9mRhfIrAcHk-44L0).
- Get slapped on the wrist.
- Move on.
As I understand it, the rules have been altered to fix this. Head Coaches are no longer responsible only for what it can be proven that they knew but for all that goes on within their program.
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That’s a good post SM.
There are 2 separate and distinct issues here.
1. Did having detailed, comprehensive info regarding the opponents play calls give UM an in game, substantial advantage.
2. who knew- was involved.
1. whether it gave a substantial advantage or not doesn't matter. That was the intent.
2. if the playcallers were using this info they were involved - the head coach is responsible to know this.
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So, even if the coaches didn’t know how he deciphered the signs, I don’t think a remotely credible argument could be made that Michigan did not have a substantial, endgame, play to play advantage during the time in question. And there is plenty of film of Stalions watching the opponent sideline, and quickly relaying that info to both Minter and Sherrone, and even Harbaugh.
But there's no rule against that, if he didn't decipher the signs the way he did by breaking a rule.
I think the scenario @SuperMario (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1596) brings up is the best case scenario. However it would entail Michigan paying Stalions and some third-party for their legitimate and non-rule-breaking sign stealing operation. I would think that this would involve contracts, and some due diligence done on Michigan's part to contract with a third party that gives some sort of guarantee that they're doing this legally.
You can make an argument that without due diligence, Michigan still should have known it was illegitimate. But if they actually have emails, text discussions, contracts, etc that all show that they asked how the third party was doing this and were snowed enough by the evidence to realistically believe it wasn't by sending people into opposing stadiums and scouting? That's the only way anyone beyond Stalions is in the clear.
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I think everyone agrees, or at least should, that Stalions was on the field watching signs from the other team being called. I don’t know how anyone disagrees with that because there’s video of him watching and passing on the info. That being said, that’s not illegal.
Secondly, I didn’t expand on this point, but we have no idea how the budget was allocated or reviewed. Could it be worst case that Michigan coaches and higher ups knew it was to pay for travel and tickets to be in person and clear violation? Yeah that’s definitely possible. But we don’t know details and it’s also possible that it was looked at as an expense from Stalions and his third parties to collect public video and analyze snippets of video to steal signs.. could have been an argument that most games broadcast don’t show a ton of sign calling so it was labor and time intensive which is why the cost was higher, which in reality it was more tickets, games and travel. Is that likely? Probably not, but we also just don’t know and everyone is jumping to worst case conclusions when we actually don’t know the true facts.
Did it give them a competitive advantage? Yes, that’s the point. Which is why every team likely has spent time trying to take signs.
If it ends up solely being Stalions and his con what do they do with the games and titles, I have no idea. If it was the entire staff, you strip them most likely as I can’t see a reasonable explanation then. If this guy was a genius in how he did it and his the truth, then I have no clue.
Either way, we just don’t know and over the last few year, I just hesitate to believe media or leaks without facts.
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But there's no rule against that, if he didn't decipher the signs the way he did by breaking a rule.
I think the scenario @SuperMario (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1596) brings up is the best case scenario. However it would entail Michigan paying Stalions and some third-party for their legitimate and non-rule-breaking sign stealing operation. I would think that this would involve contracts, and some due diligence done on Michigan's part to contract with a third party that gives some sort of guarantee that they're doing this legally.
You can make an argument that without due diligence, Michigan still should have known it was illegitimate. But if they actually have emails, text discussions, contracts, etc that all show that they asked how the third party was doing this and were snowed enough by the evidence to realistically believe it wasn't by sending people into opposing stadiums and scouting? That's the only way anyone beyond Stalions is in the clear.
He most certainly did. Advanced in person scouting, and recording. Illegal.
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SM- if it is acknowledged that he collected the information in violation of the rules, and he has the information in his personal possession, and is assisting with Clay calls for both the office of and defensive coordinator, that would make it illegal.
The only opposing argument you could make is that he recorded in excess of 35 or 40 games of the opponents, download the videos, but never used any of it. Nobody is going to buy that, nor should they.
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I get your point but I don't think it matters.
For generations the typical response has been what you are implicitly suggesting here:
- Blame the lowest possible level staffer, in this case Stalions.
- Throw said staffer under the bus.
- Claim (truthfully or not) that the higher ups including the HC were as clueless as Sgt. Schultz (https://youtu.be/34ag4nkSh7Q?si=9mRhfIrAcHk-44L0).
- Get slapped on the wrist.
- Move on.
As I understand it, the rules have been altered to fix this. Head Coaches are no longer responsible only for what it can be proven that they knew but for all that goes on within their program.
But it does matter. Your assumption is always that higher ups knew and are just blaming the lowest possible level staffer. Again, those are hate filled glasses you’re viewing it through.
There are plenty of businesses that have low level staffers that break the law, commit fraud or do things they aren’t supposed to. Does the business have to face consequences as well as the staffer that broke the law? Yeah, absolutely. But the consequences to the business are also dependent on how much the business knew. Yes, there are business that know wrongdoing at the top and hang people out to dry to save face, but that’s not what happens every time. There’s plenty of businesses with high character people at the top and a low level person does stupid things to get ahead. If you think higher ups not knowing makes then clueless, bad people, poor leaders, then I would argue your real world experience is sheltered.
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The only opposing argument you could make is that he recorded in excess of 35 or 40 games of the opponents, download the videos, but never used any of it. Nobody is going to buy that, nor should they.
Maybe he did it on his own, kept the method secret from the OC/DC, and claimed he had done some in depth analysis that revealed the signs.
Maybe that's not credible.
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SM- if it is acknowledged that he collected the information in violation of the rules, and he has the information in his personal possession, and is assisting with Clay calls for both the office of and defensive coordinator, that would make it illegal.
We don’t disagree here at all. There’s plenty of people, likely including Michigan, that will argue the rule is vague if it’s third parties in person if they aren’t staff, but I don’t really entertain that conversation. I think from my seat. I’m most curious about how deep it goes. Is it Stalions or the staff. I think Stalions worked the system and crossed the line. But who else knew all the details.
if the argument comes out that the rule technically allows third parties to be in the stands as they actually weren’t on the sideline, I’ll just shake my head.
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Maybe he did it on his own, kept the method secret from the OC/DC, and claimed he had done some in depth analysis that revealed the signs.
Maybe that's not credible.
Well to SM’s point- that is possible.
But they still broke rules and had a in-game, substantial competitive advantage.
So again- leniency for the coaches. But you still have to address the wins where the illegal advantage impacted the outcome.
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We don’t disagree here at all. There’s plenty of people, likely including Michigan, that will argue the rule is vague if it’s third parties in person if they aren’t staff, but I don’t really entertain that conversation. I think from my seat. I’m most curious about how deep it goes. Is it Stalions or the staff. I think Stalions worked the system and crossed the line. But who else knew all the details.
if the argument comes out that the rule technically allows third parties to be in the stands as they actually weren’t on the sideline, I’ll just shake my head.
You’re a good man. You care. I love that.
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Maybe he did it on his own, kept the method secret from the OC/DC, and claimed he had done some in depth analysis that revealed the signs.
Maybe that's not credible.
Maybe it is.
This is where I land right now: He presented himself as a genius and got a sideline gig because of it. It's been said that his family is loaded, so he could afford to go anywhere he wanted - and did.
I don't think we can take any true position on the matter, at this point in time. The investigation has to play out.
As I mentioned above, IF Michigan knowingly cheated, Michigan deserves what comes to them - and not even Taylor Swift could get them out of it.
So there.
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But it does matter. Your assumption is always that higher ups knew and are just blaming the lowest possible level staffer. Again, those are hate filled glasses you’re viewing it through.
In my post I parenthetically stated "truthfully or not". Whether or not Harbaugh knew is very likely to never be proven one way or another so there is no reason to argue about it, we can probably argue about that 20 years from now.
My point wasn't that Harbaugh knew, I didn't even make that argument. My point was that it doesn't matter.
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so, a 3rd party sat in the stands and recorded signs, signals, and plays. Fine.
the catch is that the 3rd party was asked to do this and possibly instructed how to do this and had their tickets paid for by a staffer.
the staffer is now suspended, with pay. Even though he seems to have plenty of $$$.
this staffer is the responsibility of the AD and probably the head coach.
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In my post I parenthetically stated "truthfully or not". Whether or not Harbaugh knew is very likely to never be proven one way or another so there is no reason to argue about it, we can probably argue about that 20 years from now.
My point wasn't that Harbaugh knew, I didn't even make that argument. My point was that it doesn't matter.
Again, but it does matter. If people at the top, knowingly support breaking the rules it is far different than a low level person doing it on their own and being sneaky enough to hide it from the top. Punishment for the organization should be far different based on which was is true. And yes, there should be punishment either way, but it should be far different based on how it was done, the involvement and knowledge of higher ups.
and if it can’t be proven Harbaugh did know, then people should stop acting like he did while trying to call him a cheater or scumbag. Can’t have it both ways.
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Maybe it is.
This is where I land right now: He presented himself as a genius and got a sideline gig because of it. It's been said that his family is loaded, so he could afford to go anywhere he wanted - and did.
I don't think we can take any true position on the matter, at this point in time. The investigation has to play out.
As I mentioned above, IF Michigan knowingly cheated, Michigan deserves what comes to them - and not even Taylor Swift could get them out of it.
So there.
This is well said and about where I’m at. I keep going back to one of my guys on staff breaking the law and hiding it well from me. I’d be pissed at myself, hold myself responsible and tackle the consequences, but the second anyone tried to paint me as the cheater, scumbag or criminal, I’d come back swinging and clear my name after all was said and done.
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I didn’t want to discuss this topic any more, but my business partner brought up an interesting point. For reference, he is an OSU grad and OSU fan.
Now I'm launching an investigation into your Michigan fandom. Highly suspicious for a "Michigan Man" to be in business with an OSU guy.
ELA will be representing my interests in this matter. Expect a letter from him forthwith.
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Maybe it is.
This is where I land right now: He presented himself as a genius and got a sideline gig because of it. It's been said that his family is loaded, so he could afford to go anywhere he wanted - and did.
I don't think we can take any true position on the matter, at this point in time. The investigation has to play out.
As I mentioned above, IF Michigan knowingly cheated, Michigan deserves what comes to them - and not even Taylor Swift could get them out of it.
So there.
pretty fair rational take.
i've heard not only is this guys family loaded, but he himself made a ton of money in real estate buying houses, flipping, renting out. probably bank-rolled that all with family money.
this dude is a nutjob superfan- wrote a 600 page manifesto about Michigan football. it's plausible he presented himself as a sign stealing genius (which is legal) from watching tv copy/all-22. there are plenty of signs shown/available to decipher in those copies.
if the dude comes from money and made his own money in real estate- and is CLEARLY a nutjob whose dream is to one day be the head coach at Michigan- not that far fetched he'd present himself as some sign stealing guru genius in an effort to get in with the staff at Michigan- and in reality he wasn't just stealing signs from tv/all-22 he was self-funding an elaborate in-person sign stealing operation.
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Oh and to the OSU slappies crying like women....sign stealing does not equal video taping opponents practice footage or stealing playbooks/weekly game plans/intercepting in-game opponent coaching headset audio.
Everyone steals signs. It's not illegal. Period. The issue remains the in-person advanced scouting bylaw- which AGAIN for the 1000th fcking time- was put in place not to prevent sign stealing (which again for the 1000th fcking time- is LEGAL) - but because the poors were bitching up a storm that they didn't have the football budget that the rich helmets did to send staffers to opponents games. It was all over a have vs the have nots issue. Wasn't ever about sign stealing. Which again...is legal.
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Oh and to the OSU slappies crying like women....sign stealing does not equal video taping opponents practice footage or stealing playbooks/weekly game plans/intercepting in-game opponent coaching headset audio.
Everyone steals signs. It's not illegal. Period. The issue remains the in-person advanced scouting bylaw- which AGAIN for the 1000th fcking time- was put in place not to prevent sign stealing (which again for the 1000th fcking time- is LEGAL) - but because the poors were bitching up a storm that they didn't have the football budget that the rich helmets did to send staffers to opponents games. It was all over the have vs the have nots issue. Wasn't ever about sign stealing. Which again. Is legal.
Who here is doing that?
Maybe on Bucknuts or 11 whatever. Not so much here. All I see is a lot of questioning.
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Oh and to the OSU slappies crying like women....sign stealing does not equal video taping opponents practice footage or stealing playbooks/weekly game plans/intercepting in-game opponent coaching headset audio.
Everyone steals signs. It's not illegal. Period. The issue remains the in-person advanced scouting bylaw- which AGAIN for the 1000th fcking time- was put in place not to prevent sign stealing (which again for the 1000th fcking time- is LEGAL) - but because the poors were bitching up a storm that they didn't have the football budget that the rich helmets did to send staffers to opponents games. It was all over a have vs the have nots issue. Wasn't ever about sign stealing. Which again...is legal.
Seriously? This has been a pretty calm discussion. Can you not intentionally pour gasoline on the calm fire?
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dude really is a GOAT....:043:
https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1717538757245649113?s=20
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dude really is a GOAT....:043:
He'll need to be in two seats at once.
Gotta scout OSU for the GAME and UW for the B1GCCG.
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He'll need to be in two seats at once.
Gotta scout OSU for the GAME and UW for the B1GCCG.
I am going to the Michigan-OSU game. I think I'm gonna bring my iPad and record the entire OSU sideline for signs and then upload it all to the internet win-lose-or draw just to be an ass.
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(https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/122/65/12065122.png)(https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/123/65/12065123.png)
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Seriously? This has been a pretty calm discussion. Can you not intentionally pour gasoline on the calm fire?
have you met Mdot???
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NCB Mike Sainistril and WR Roman Wilson both moving up NFL Draft boards per The Athletic's draft guru Dan Brugler. Brugler has both in the top 100 players for the upcoming draft now.
https://theathletic.com/4993794/2023/10/26/nfl-draft-2024-outliers-mike-sainristil/?source=user_shared_article
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Oh and to the OSU slappies crying like women....sign stealing does not equal video taping opponents practice footage or stealing playbooks/weekly game plans/intercepting in-game opponent coaching headset audio.
Everyone steals signs. It's not illegal. Period. The issue remains the in-person advanced scouting bylaw- which AGAIN for the 1000th fcking time- was put in place not to prevent sign stealing (which again for the 1000th fcking time- is LEGAL) - but because the poors were bitching up a storm that they didn't have the football budget that the rich helmets did to send staffers to opponents games. It was all over a have vs the have nots issue. Wasn't ever about sign stealing. Which again...is legal.
Michigan should get the death penalty . . .
Because they have fans like this.
Oh, and for letting two tickets to a top-10 tOSU/PSU game go unused after their cheating scheme was unmasked
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Oh and to the OSU slappies crying like women....sign stealing does not equal video taping opponents practice footage or stealing playbooks/weekly game plans/intercepting in-game opponent coaching headset audio.
Everyone steals signs. It's not illegal. Period. The issue remains the in-person advanced scouting bylaw- which AGAIN for the 1000th fcking time- was put in place not to prevent sign stealing (which again for the 1000th fcking time- is LEGAL) - but because the poors were bitching up a storm that they didn't have the football budget that the rich helmets did to send staffers to opponents games. It was all over a have vs the have nots issue. Wasn't ever about sign stealing. Which again...is legal.
Talk about crying like a little girl…
Thanks for straightening us all out.
None of us knew Michigan was being investigated for something that is legal, just to make sure they are not too far ahead of their competitors.
😂😂
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(https://media.tenor.com/zh3c_MzQ1oIAAAAM/sad-face-crying.gif)
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Thankfully we have SM here.
He is the only UM fan I know who puts the integrity of the game before his fan hood. That’s called manhood.
The rest are crying, deflecting, blaming anyone else. Fricken embarrassing.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDhNkDkjvqM
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Again. There are multiple levels here. There's also a level of due diligence or "should have known" here.
- It's clear that Stalions was able to understand opposing signs and the coaches knew this and took his input. I think that's clear and I don't think even the Michigan faithful are disputing it.
- It's unclear what Stalions told Michigan about how he was able to understand the opposing signs. I find it fairly incredible that he could convince them that he did this legally, but that article about him makes him sound a little insane. If he's got a 600 (or whatever) page Michigan Manifesto, he very well might be the type of person who would falsify enough evidence that he could do analytics on PUBLIC video / etc to do it. It's a stretch, but con men often get where they are by being really good at conning.
- It's unclear where the money was coming from. If it was purely Stalions paying for it out of his family's coffers, there would be no reason for Michigan to know. However if he was in any way "selling" this service to the Wolvies (beyond his meagre analyst salary), there will be a paper and payment trail. IMHO at that point the onus is even FURTHER on the Michigan staff to show they did their due diligence and had reason to believe what Stalions was doing wasn't illegal.
I suppose per HB that if they were cheating and benefited it, it would be cause for vacated wins and probably a bowl ban for THIS season since their performance includes the cheating-based advantages. That would be true even if the coaches weren't aware.
However, if the program successfully proves that there was no way they should have known about what Stalions was doing and that it was plausible and believed that he was stealing signs legitimately, it would largely prevent future sanctions and punishment for the rest of the coaching staff.
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Regardless of what was done or what comes of it, it makes me look at Michigan's seasons in a different light. I've enjoyed their resurgence and watching their hard-nosed play. But in the future, whether I consciously mean to or not, I'll probably discount the accomplishments compared to other teams. Like, if they win a championship this year I probably won't be talking about it years from now as with other NC's due to the mental asterisk.
If they do win a natty, the fans may be just fine with that, and I can understand that too.
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Again. There are multiple levels here. There's also a level of due diligence or "should have known" here.
- It's clear that Stalions was able to understand opposing signs and the coaches knew this and took his input. I think that's clear and I don't think even the Michigan faithful are disputing it.
- It's unclear what Stalions told Michigan about how he was able to understand the opposing signs. I find it fairly incredible that he could convince them that he did this legally, but that article about him makes him sound a little insane. If he's got a 600 (or whatever) page Michigan Manifesto, he very well might be the type of person who would falsify enough evidence that he could do analytics on PUBLIC video / etc to do it. It's a stretch, but con men often get where they are by being really good at conning.
- It's unclear where the money was coming from. If it was purely Stalions paying for it out of his family's coffers, there would be no reason for Michigan to know. However if he was in any way "selling" this service to the Wolvies (beyond his meagre analyst salary), there will be a paper and payment trail. IMHO at that point the onus is even FURTHER on the Michigan staff to show they did their due diligence and had reason to believe what Stalions was doing wasn't illegal.
I suppose per HB that if they were cheating and benefited it, it would be cause for vacated wins and probably a bowl ban for THIS season since their performance includes the cheating-based advantages. That would be true even if the coaches weren't aware.
However, if the program successfully proves that there was no way they should have known about what Stalions was doing and that it was plausible and believed that he was stealing signs legitimately, it would largely prevent future sanctions and punishment for the rest of the coaching staff.
lot of the above is a stretch- there won't be jack happening to them this season. NCAA hasn't brought forth a notice of allegations, and that probably won't come for a hot minute. And once that does come- Michigan will have 90 days to respond to it. Meaning: even if they brought NOA today- that still puts us 90 days out before any punishment could be dealt down by NCAA. Fyi- that NOA ain't coming any time soon. Going to be at least a month or so- probably longer before an NOA from NCAA even comes down the pike.
At the end of all this- they won't vacate wins. Jeem won't get fired. He's going to the NFL and Michigan will get scholarship reductions, probation, and other various slaps on the wrist.
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Regardless of what was done or what comes of it, it makes me look at Michigan's seasons in a different light. I've enjoyed their resurgence and watching their hard-nosed play. But in the future, whether I consciously mean to or not, I'll probably discount the accomplishments compared to other teams. Like, if they win a championship this year I probably won't be talking about it years from now as with other NC's due to the mental asterisk.
If they do win a natty, the fans may be just fine with that, and I can understand that too.
if they win a natty- the fans won't give a shiiiiit and 10-15 years from now no one will remember or care. it will be an afterthought and a foot note.
no one gives a single sh*t about spygate or deflate gate. all anyone remembers is how the Pats completed dominated the NFL for 20 years and how Tom Brady is the GOAT football player ever and Bill Belichik the GOAT coach.
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At the end of all this- they won't vacate wins. Jeem won't get fired. He's going to the NFL and Michigan will get scholarship reductions, probation, and other various slaps on the wrist.
Honestly with the limited knowledge we have, I don't know how the NCAA doesn't vacate wins. But as you point out, fans don't care about that. In this case though I think everyone except Michigan fans are going to asterisk the last 3 seasons because of how dominant Michigan was against the spread, which IMHO is kind of a big deal and shows that they SERIOUSLY outperformed at the exact same time they were cheating. This isn't like a recruiting violation that all happens before the games are played and the game results are viewed as legit. This is direct cheating that affects the results in the game, during the game.
But if the program didn't know about it due to being conned by Stalions, that protects the program IMHO from scholarship restrictions, protects Jim from the show cause, etc.
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Despite 3rd Base Day’s PR machine Coach Harbaugh’s reputation remains pure as the driven snow.
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Despite 3rd Base Day’s PR machine Coach Harbaugh’s reputation remains pure as the driven snow.
I dislike cryin' Ryan as much as the next guy, but this isn't on him.
John U Bacon is as plugged in as it gets. If he says that it's a former Michigan guy- Stapleton that is behind all the leaks and all the drama- then I'd say that's probably accurate.
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Yep.
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Honestly with the limited knowledge we have, I don't know how the NCAA doesn't vacate wins. But as you point out, fans don't care about that. In this case though I think everyone except Michigan fans are going to asterisk the last 3 seasons because of how dominant Michigan was against the spread, which IMHO is kind of a big deal and shows that they SERIOUSLY outperformed at the exact same time they were cheating. This isn't like a recruiting violation that all happens before the games are played and the game results are viewed as legit. This is direct cheating that affects the results in the game, during the game.
But if the program didn't know about it due to being conned by Stalions, that protects the program IMHO from scholarship restrictions, protects Jim from the show cause, etc.
you have no clue what the NCAA will do- neither do I- but I'd say it's unlikely that the NCAA is going to vacate wins. This is a level 3 violation- by the rule book. And I would say it is highly unlikely that the NCAA is going to hammer Michigan because: money. They are a money hungry money grubbing pig of an organization at the end of the day- and ESPN/ABC didn't pay billions for the TV rights for the playoff and CBS/FOX didn't pay an even bigger fortune for the TV rights of the B1G for one of the top 5 or so TV generating cash cows in all of CFB to get nuked and receive the death penalty.
Bitter jealous envious fans of opponent teams can say all they want- doesn't matter. The wins happened. Colts fans still cry about the Pats. And other NFL fans just laugh at them. this will all pass and no one will give a shit in 20 years like no one in sports media or nfl fans gives a shit about spygate and deflate gate- except for crybaby Colts fans and the like.
Recruiting violations are arguably worse. Paying for great players affects the game way more than sign stealing. At the end of the day- this sign stealing is nothing but a bunch of bullsh*t. It's all about the JIMMYS AND THE JOES. Not the X's and the O's. You want to know why Michigan "seriously out-performed" - they started getting A LOT BETTER players. It's really that simple. Blake Corum and Donovan Edwards >>>>>>>> every RB Jeem had before combined times 10. Will Johnson >>>>>>> a lot better CB1 than any CB that Jeem had before. Aidan Hutchinson >>>>> a lot better than any defensive player he's had before. You've seen the guy in the NFL right, he's pretty fcking good. And last but not least- Jeem has BY FAR the best QB he's ever had at Michigan. And it's not even remotely fcking close. That's how you level up a program- by getting better players.
And there is no bylaw against stealing signs. And the bylaw which prohibits to recording of signs only applies to staff on the field on game day.
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I am going to the Michigan-OSU game. I think I'm gonna bring my iPad and record the entire OSU sideline for signs and then upload it all to the internet win-lose-or draw just to be an ass.
currently in Lincoln..............
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/395499333_10226847097577646_11153938628189977_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=zTZd70ZHVwUAX_BGxqB&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAh2zT_b95O1JR5w0D3ZsfUf68mh9GSZ_jVbNMNJTFMwg&oe=65425216)
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currently in Lincoln..............
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/395499333_10226847097577646_11153938628189977_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=zTZd70ZHVwUAX_BGxqB&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAh2zT_b95O1JR5w0D3ZsfUf68mh9GSZ_jVbNMNJTFMwg&oe=65425216)
that's awesome....no lie
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:57:
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this sign-gate fiasco definitely is going to hurt their recruiting for 2024 and 2025 classes. it probably definitely insured that Jeem will be going to the NFL- he was already sick of the NCAA and he already wanted to chase a Super Bowl- this gives him an even bigger reason to want to just say F it and leave.
but for this season- it probably just going to motivate and bring that team together even more. they have 4 games left- and I'll be shocked if they don't come out completely unified, focused, locked-in, ready to go, and highly motivated to win. I was worried about the Maryland game- but I think this team is going to have an us-vs-the-world mentality and continue to take it out on everyone they play.
might be the best thing that happened to this team for this season.
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/395370762_803551574907445_7905341399408138456_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=N05X1zmWISwAX-43wyd&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfB6Rl82ZZRqxW779pAznENR_xsumcMHRF8Z7SEZXxBt4g&oe=6542C3C2)
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https://x.com/GoJoandGolic/status/1717932553972199866?s=20
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https://twitter.com/Bachscore/status/1718762706872774844?t=OzDGAqDW1r97f9NwJG6FuA&s=19
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https://twitter.com/Bachscore/status/1718762706872774844?t=OzDGAqDW1r97f9NwJG6FuA&s=19
makes sense. can't give the guy a massive contract when his program is currently undergoing it's THIRD NCAA investigation is the past like 6 months.
doesn't really matter anyway. Even if he had signed a new contract- Jeem is going to the NFL at the end of the season.
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/395370762_803551574907445_7905341399408138456_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=N05X1zmWISwAX-43wyd&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfB6Rl82ZZRqxW779pAznENR_xsumcMHRF8Z7SEZXxBt4g&oe=6542C3C2)
Bo was no choir boy....
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give him the contract with the buyout and then send him to the NFL and take the $$$
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this is pretty funny...I'm gonna do this as well when Michigan plays OSU.
Oh and Maurice Clarett has no idea what a ponzi scheme actually is apparently.
https://twitter.com/ReeseClarett13/status/1718448822941020386?s=20
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LSU head coach Brian Kelly on Sign-Stealing-Gate:
It’s silly,” he told ESPN on Wednesday. “Silly meaning my genuine feeling is that we have too many smart people that have looked at this and said we should be doing it and we haven’t taken the time to actually move it forward.”
Kelly said that teams attempting to steal signals of opponents has been “going on forever.”
Asked whether those efforts ever rose to the level of what Michigan (https://www.espn.com/college-football/team/_/id/130/michigan-wolverines) is accused of, sending people to scout opponents in person and using recording devices, Kelly said, “Who knows.”
“But this isn’t the first time we’ve heard of sign stealing,” he said, “whether there is proposed sign stealing or people were buying tickets to other games. This is all part of why this should not even be part of the equation.”
Kelly said the tangible effect of stealing signals is debatable. In 32 years of coaching, he said, he has never believed they lost a game because of it.
“I’ve never come back to the office and go, they got us,” he added.
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Oh and Maurice Clarett has no idea what a ponzi scheme actually is apparently.
Allow me to be the first Ohio State fan to concede that Clarett didn't go to Columbus to play school.
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Allow me to be the first Ohio State fan to concede that Clarett didn't go to Columbus to play school.
😂😂. Seconded. Not the sharpest tool in the shed.
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https://www.si.com/college/2023/10/29/michigan-silence-sign-stealing-scandal-jim-harbaugh
A pretty balanced look at where it all stands- IMO.
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https://www.si.com/college/2023/10/29/michigan-silence-sign-stealing-scandal-jim-harbaugh
A pretty balanced look at where it all stands- IMO.
I mean, they know they are f***ed. But the NCAA moves at a snails pace. Deny, deny, deny. Michigan will win a NC, the networks will be happy, then it will be vacated. That's literally the Michigan way.
Their best period of baseball was vacated because the head coach was literally embezzling from the school to pay players. Their best period of basketball was vacated. And now their best period of football will be.
The only reason anyone cares is because Michigan pretends to be better, when in fact they are far dirtier. Cowherd said nobody would care if this was Purdue is correct. But only because Purdue didn't stake their claim to being above anything anyone else did. When you go to a game at Michigan Stadium, it opens with James Earl Jones saying "this is the greatest university in the world". It's laughable hyperbole, but as for the general student population, it's not comically off. Their players are subject to the same, if not lower, academic standards of every other Big Ten team. This just extenuated, that Michigan lives more in the grey area than any other Big Tern team. If they hadn't pretended to be better than everyone, nobody would care when it turns out their standards were actually lower than everyones. When Auburn cheats, everyone laughs, and says "that's Auburn!". Michigan is just Auburn with a false sense of superiority. They claim to be the Harvard of the West, but they are actually the Auburn of the north. They are no worse than anyone. But any pretense that they are better than anyone, is laughable, and now gone
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Per the WSJ, Michigan rescinded their extension offer to Harbaugh today.
It's the ultimate what goes around comes around for the king of pulling offers
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Harbaugh deleted his entire Twitter history for the past 3 years, and multiple MGoBlog posters are saying he's out tomorrow
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https://twitter.com/GoJoandGolic/status/1717932553972199866?s=20
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Harbaugh deleted his entire Twitter history for the past 3 years, and multiple MGoBlog posters are saying he's out tomorrow
Reddit saying he hasn't used twitter since 2020.
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Reddit saying he hasn't used twitter since 2020.
Perhaps. Would like to find the sucker paying for his blue checkmark then. Probably Jay
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I saw someone claiming they wouldn't be required to set aside any bowl wins, so there's that.
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Per the WSJ, Michigan rescinded their extension offer to Harbaugh today.
It's the ultimate what goes around comes around for the king of pulling offers
Later in that WSJ article they use the word paused. Big difference between paused and rescinded.
Also, this:
https://nflplayoffbracket.com/michigan-board-member-shoots-down-rumor-about-jim-harbaugh/ (https://nflplayoffbracket.com/michigan-board-member-shoots-down-rumor-about-jim-harbaugh/)
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We're in for more rumor than fact for a while I suspect.
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I saw someone claiming they wouldn't be required to set aside any bowl wins, so there's that.
LOL burn
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(https://i.imgur.com/TfTPou3.jpg)
Busted!
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(https://i.imgur.com/TfTPou3.jpg)
Busted!
Classic!😂
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I mean, they know they are f***ed. But the NCAA moves at a snails pace. Deny, deny, deny. Michigan will win a NC, the networks will be happy, then it will be vacated. That's literally the Michigan way.
Their best period of baseball was vacated because the head coach was literally embezzling from the school to pay players. Their best period of basketball was vacated. And now their best period of football will be.
Well reasoned/written critique and very parallel to what Mike Valenti said in a few of his segments last fall.No bombast or hyperbole straight forward presentation of actual events and the Blue Wall goes into deflect/deceit/deny mode. Jim Tressel was run out of town on a rail for not being forthwith about the tats. And the Buckeye Brand heard about all of it from guess where? and sadly they were half right. But last autumn's Ann Arbor cover up made that look astute. The cover up then the fact UZI Smith got on a Airliner 3 hrs later after a felony gun charge may have broke another federal law.Jim Harbaugh just went on and on about what a good kid UZI was blah,blahblah.So did that circus freak of a prosecutor and M grad but when YET another fight breaks out in their Tunnel the MSU kids that were approached by two M players who weren't even suppose to be there got what they deserved. Yet they not the supposed "HOSTS" get panned by JEEM and a supposed neutral prosecutor. Called all sorts of derogatory remarks knowing FULL G** D***ed well what happened just a week before but NEVER hit the papers. THAT was beyond everything good,decent,sporting
What has happened to Tucker and Harbaugh is almost proof of Kharma.Tucker for throwing his team under the Bus. And Jeem & the Blue Wall for last Fall Just wish Kharma would even the score on big business/gov't
https://youtu.be/1JJRCUli0eg
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LOL Valenti is a Spartan ass clown.
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(https://i.imgur.com/PjtMbrO.jpg)
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LOL Valenti is a Spartan ass clown.
You have your head so far up Harbaugh's ass you can tell us what he had for lunch,it is laid out so easy that even you can follow it.This isn't about hamburgers or sign stealing - it's about guns and fights - egregious infractions that have been swept under the rug repeatedly where you evidently reside
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(https://i.imgur.com/PjtMbrO.jpg)
😂😂😂. Needed that laugh.
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https://twitter.com/Bachscore/status/1718762706872774844?t=OzDGAqDW1r97f9NwJG6FuA&s=19
Michigan insider John U Bacon saying this is not true.
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Later in that WSJ article they use the word paused. Big difference between paused and rescinded.
Also, this:
https://nflplayoffbracket.com/michigan-board-member-shoots-down-rumor-about-jim-harbaugh/ (https://nflplayoffbracket.com/michigan-board-member-shoots-down-rumor-about-jim-harbaugh/)
Lol. Doubt it. NFL won't give two sh*ts about what the NCAA has to say. Did Pete get any suspensions when USC got hit and he jumped to the NFL?
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Interesting take. It will never happen this way.
https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/2023/10/goodman-the-solution-for-college-footballs-michigan-problem-is-clear.html
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Lol. Doubt it. NFL won't give two sh*ts about what the NCAA has to say. Did Pete get any suspensions when USC got hit and he jumped to the NFL?
No, but Jim Tressel did when he went to Indy as a consultant. 6 games.
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When Auburn cheats, everyone laughs, and says "that's Auburn!". Michigan is just Auburn with a false sense of superiority. They claim to be the Harvard of the West, but they are actually the Auburn of the north. They are no worse than anyone. But any pretense that they are better than anyone, is laughable, and now gone
Hey, hey, hey.
Good-natured argument is one thing, but comparing someone to Auburn is a level of vitriol I hate to see.
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Buckeye porn....
https://www.si.com/college/ohiostate/opinion/opinion-jim-harbaugh-michigan-deserve-college-footballs-death-penalty (https://www.si.com/college/ohiostate/opinion/opinion-jim-harbaugh-michigan-deserve-college-footballs-death-penalty)
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Stick UZI's 9 mag & 69 slugs up your backside slappy - Denial isn't a river in Egypt.
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Stick UZI's 9 mag & 69 slugs up your backside slappy - Denial isn't a river in Egypt.
1435 Days since Ohio State last beat Michigan in football.
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Buckeye porn....
https://www.si.com/college/ohiostate/opinion/opinion-jim-harbaugh-michigan-deserve-college-footballs-death-penalty (https://www.si.com/college/ohiostate/opinion/opinion-jim-harbaugh-michigan-deserve-college-footballs-death-penalty)
That is bad. Stupid opinion. He has to be a moron.
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1435 Days since Ohio State last beat Michigan in football.
Again are you including Michigan's chicken out in 2020 after the 29 pt curb stomping in '19? Ya know the the next day UofM had a full pad practice but wouldn't go to C-Bus - skeered of covid but not in Ann Arbor :13:
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Again are you including Michigan's chicken out in 2020 after the 29 pt curb stomping in '19? Ya know the the next day UofM had a full pad practice but wouldn't go to C-Bus - skeered of covid but not in Ann Arbor :13:
Yeah I’d remove the days of the 2020 chicken out. No questions Ohio St would’ve smashed Michigan that year. But that was more the state govt I think than UofM.
Michigan was a blue state and had a COVID NAZI c*n’t as governor.
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1435 Days since Ohio State last beat Michigan in football.
Or you could put it as 4,356 days since Michigan last beat Ohio State without cheating. Though it could be a big assumption they didn't cheat then. :93:
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must be the signs....
https://twitter.com/BrandonKoretz/status/1719163552664097148?s=20
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surprised no one has made a meme with this...internet is slacking right now...
https://youtu.be/iqu132vTl5Y?si=rbm8bc0TZBu8eOmO&t=60
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so Conor Stallions apparently got a field pass to a CMU game somehow, went dressed in full CMU coaching garb and snuck onto their restricted area on the sidelines. dude should work for CIA or MI6. guy is a full on nutjob. who writes a 600 page manifesto? I mean, seriously. Jeem seems to attract the crazies, first Matt Weiss, Schemy, now this dude, must be the autism in Jeem...he's a crazy asshole himself.
https://twitter.com/mgoblog/status/1719207301175705648?s=20
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No, but Jim Tressel did when he went to Indy as a consultant. 6 games.
comparing apples to oranges. Tressel got a consultant job. NFL owners don't give a rats ass if a consultant is suspended for 6 games. Their head coach.... well that's a different story. The commissioner- who works for the NFL owners is not going to suspend a head coach that one of his billionaire owners just splurged on a fat contract to hire- when said billionaire NFL owner also happens to cut a $2.5+ million check to the NFL each year to pay said commissioner his $70+ million per year salary- because the NCAA doles out a punishment. NFL owners give zero fks what the NCAA says or does.
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so Conor Stallions apparently got a field pass to a CMU game somehow, went dressed in full CMU coaching garb and snuck onto their restricted area on the sidelines. dude should work for CIA or MI6. guy is a full on nutjob. who writes a 600 page manifesto? I mean, seriously. Jeem seems to attract the crazies, first Matt Weiss, Schemy, now this dude, must be the autism in Jeem...he's a crazy asshole himself.
https://twitter.com/mgoblog/status/1719207301175705648?s=20
This guy was truly committed to the bit
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This guy was truly committed to the bit
dude is a full on crazy person.
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dude is a full on crazy person.
He attacked his days with enthusiasm unknown to mankind
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He was at the CMU game v MSU.
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LOL, this Stallions guy is a hoot. If that's him its a clear cut violation, no grey area. I wonder if the NCAA has interviewed him already.
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Jim's soulmate
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https://twitter.com/OSUFAN4U2NV/status/1719169083789201860?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1719169083789201860%7Ctwgr%5E63464589046c9c595bd3da962f906256a4d7779b%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fcollege%2Fohio-state%2Fboard%2F120%2FContents%2Fa-boost-for-ttun-players-in-the-nfl-draft-219234326%2F%3Fpage%3D1
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LOL, this Stallions guy is a hoot. If that's him its a clear cut violation, no grey area. I wonder if the NCAA has interviewed him already.
He is a nut job for sure. I highly doubt Michigan coaching staff knew or endorsed him being there.
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probably not, but they made him a staffer
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How in the hell did he get a sideline pass? I wonder if he forged it?
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(https://y.yarn.co/a5bd6fce-f1e7-448a-8974-1eb9838b5ace_text.gif)
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"Thayer Munford put Aidan Hutchinson on his ass" oopsie whip it - whip good
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https://twitter.com/OSUFAN4U2NV/status/1719169083789201860?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1719169083789201860%7Ctwgr%5E63464589046c9c595bd3da962f906256a4d7779b%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fcollege%2Fohio-state%2Fboard%2F120%2FContents%2Fa-boost-for-ttun-players-in-the-nfl-draft-219234326%2F%3Fpage%3D1
K? Cool. It was one play. Want a cookie? Hutchinson was the #2 pick in the NFL draft. Munford was a 7th rounder.
Hutchinson whooped his ass in college and is an elite young player in the NFL playing on a sure-fire division winner and playoff contender. Munford been benched multiple times and plays on a dogshit team that is going to have a top 10 pick.
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K? Cool. It was one play. Want a cookie? Hutchinson was the #2 pick in the NFL draft. Munford was a 7th rounder.
Hutchinson whooped his ass in college and is an elite young player in the NFL playing on a sure-fire division winner and playoff contender. Munford been benched multiple times and plays on a dogshit team that is going to have a top 10 pick.
Easy tiger. I know. I get it.
hutchinson was pretty quiet last night, but to the train eye his presence and the amount of attention they had to pay him give other guys debility to get to that quarterback.
I am a big fan of Hutchinson and love it, but he now plays for the lions!
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He attacked his days Day with enthusiasm unknown to mankind
FIFY
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https://youtu.be/NQm2YXqkmAQ?si=ybyB35Oa5qGEerCI
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People at MGoBlog have been doing some sleuthing. I believe this guy:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">yes, this is Stalions<br>no, Michigan didn't know<br>no, CMU didn't know<br>dude got a sideline pass, arrived in full CMU coaching gear, and snuck into the restricted area <a href="https://t.co/64Zf97wETo">pic.twitter.com/64Zf97wETo</a></p>— mgoblog (@mgoblog) <a href="https://twitter.com/mgoblog/status/1719207301175705648?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 31, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Is actually this guy:
https://cmuchippewas.com/staff-directory/cody-crawford/453 (https://cmuchippewas.com/staff-directory/cody-crawford/453)
And here's a photo of Conner Stallions to the far left of Denard at the ECU game which would have been the following day:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mgoblog/53159732782/in/album-72177720310925809/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/mgoblog/53159732782/in/album-72177720310925809/)
Almost kind of disappointed.
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People at MGoBlog have been doing some sleuthing. I believe this guy:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">yes, this is Stalions<br>no, Michigan didn't know<br>no, CMU didn't know<br>dude got a sideline pass, arrived in full CMU coaching gear, and snuck into the restricted area <a href="https://t.co/64Zf97wETo">pic.twitter.com/64Zf97wETo</a></p>— mgoblog (@mgoblog) <a href="https://twitter.com/mgoblog/status/1719207301175705648?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 31, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Is actually this guy:
https://cmuchippewas.com/staff-directory/cody-crawford/453 (https://cmuchippewas.com/staff-directory/cody-crawford/453)
And here's a photo of Conner Stallions to the far left of Denard at the ECU game which would have been the following day:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mgoblog/53159732782/in/album-72177720310925809/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/mgoblog/53159732782/in/album-72177720310925809/)
Almost kind of disappointed.
I mean maybe, but it sure looks a lot more like Stalions pre-shave than the other guy.
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who's on the short list if Jimmy bolts?
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who's on the short list if Jimmy bolts?
So what message would be sent should Michigan extend Harbaugh's contract and make him the highest paid coach in the B1G?
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That cheaters do sometimes prosper
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K? Cool. It was one play. Want a cookie? Hutchinson was the #2 pick in the NFL draft. Munford was a 7th rounder.
Hutchinson whooped his ass in college and is an elite young player in the NFL playing on a sure-fire division winner and playoff contender. Munford been benched multiple times and plays on a dogshit team that is going to have a top 10 pick.
How many extra sacks did hutch have in college because he knew they were throwing.:043:
On Thursday at the NFL Combine, Munford was asked about the play. While he praised Hutchinson as a “great player,” he blamed his technique for failing him. Munford even downplayed how good Hutchinson was when asked if the Michigan defensive lineman represented his toughest matchup.
“Not really (the toughest),” Munford said, via Kyle Meinke of MLive (https://www.mlive.com/lions/2022/03/michigans-aidan-hutchinson-not-as-good-as-nick-bosa-or-chase-young-according-to-ohio-state-ot-that-he-ran-over.html). “Basically my toughest matchup was always practice. So basically, my first two years were Chase Young and Nick Bosa. Blocking those two every day, yeah, you see what they can do in the NFL. So.”
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I know players don't think about bad calls the same way fans do, and if I had to guess, that's because when you're the one playing the game you can't afford to think like that. The attitude has to be "It doesn't matter what happens, my job is to win the play and the game." I've seen former players reminisce about old games and talk about erroneous calls, but it eats at them more in the sense that they didn't overcome it and get the job done....it's very different than hearing fans talk about those moments, where the bad call itself chaps our hide many years later. In their eyes, their job is to win against whatever they face, not gripe about getting a bad break.
In light of that, I guess I shouldn't be surprised at what I've seen from several former players and a current coach over the past week. Former UGA qb Aaron Murray does several podcasts, one with a former LSU O-lineman, and at least one more with various former UGA players. The former LSU OL guy does ESPN radio in Baton Rouge with another former LSU tailback.
I've heard all of them talking about the Michigan thing this past week. They pretty much all acknowledge that its against the rules, but to a man, none of them seem to care. Murray is the harshest about it, but even he's pretty meh on it. The prevailing attitude seems to be that they all tried to decode the other teams signals when they played, they knew the other teams were trying to get theirs too, and who gives a f, because you still have to go out and play. A UGA O-lineman--I don't know his name--kind of summed it up when he said he didn't care when he knew a defense had their signals, they still had to stop us and I was gonna make sure to flatten whoever lines up on me whether they know the play or not.
Current LSU coach Brian Kelly did his weekly appearance on the Finebaum show yesterday and was asked about the scandal. His answer was basically "everybody is always trying to get your signals, we know that, it's been going on forever, our job is to make sure as best we can that doesn't happen, but also to execute the plays, and it's not our job to fuss if we get figured out, we just have to win games." Something to that effect. He didn't weigh in on the part that breaks the rules or what he thinks should happen or anything like that. Only said people do it, it is what it is, I need to figure out a way to beat Bama, so I don't care.
This is neither an endorsement of their view nor a critique of it either. Just interesting how differently people inside the game seem to view things as opposed to fans, and possibly the NCAA.
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How many extra sacks did hutch have in college because he knew they were throwing.:043:
On Thursday at the NFL Combine, Munford was asked about the play. While he praised Hutchinson as a “great player,” he blamed his technique for failing him. Munford even downplayed how good Hutchinson was when asked if the Michigan defensive lineman represented his toughest matchup.
“Not really (the toughest),” Munford said, via Kyle Meinke of MLive (https://www.mlive.com/lions/2022/03/michigans-aidan-hutchinson-not-as-good-as-nick-bosa-or-chase-young-according-to-ohio-state-ot-that-he-ran-over.html). “Basically my toughest matchup was always practice. So basically, my first two years were Chase Young and Nick Bosa. Blocking those two every day, yeah, you see what they can do in the NFL. So.”
Lol Mumford and sons sucks and Chase Young hasn't done squat in the NFl since his rookie year. Bosa is a fcking STUD though, that's for sure.
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I know players don't think about bad calls the same way fans do, and if I had to guess, that's because when you're the one playing the game you can't afford to think like that. The attitude has to be "It doesn't matter what happens, my job is to win the play and the game." I've seen former players reminisce about old games and talk about erroneous calls, but it eats at them more in the sense that they didn't overcome it and get the job done....it's very different than hearing fans talk about those moments, where the bad call itself chaps our hide many years later. In their eyes, their job is to win against whatever they face, not gripe about getting a bad break.
In light of that, I guess I shouldn't be surprised at what I've seen from several former players and a current coach over the past week. Former UGA qb Aaron Murray does several podcasts, one with a former LSU O-lineman, and at least one more with various former UGA players. The former LSU OL guy does ESPN radio in Baton Rouge with another former LSU tailback.
I've heard all of them talking about the Michigan thing this past week. They pretty much all acknowledge that its against the rules, but to a man, none of them seem to care. Murray is the harshest about it, but even he's pretty meh on it. The prevailing attitude seems to be that they all tried to decode the other teams signals when they played, they knew the other teams were trying to get theirs too, and who gives a f, because you still have to go out and play. A UGA O-lineman--I don't know his name--kind of summed it up when he said he didn't care when he knew a defense had their signals, they still had to stop us and I was gonna make sure to flatten whoever lines up on me whether they know the play or not.
Current LSU coach Brian Kelly did his weekly appearance on the Finebaum show yesterday and was asked about the scandal. His answer was basically "everybody is always trying to get your signals, we know that, it's been going on forever, our job is to make sure as best we can that doesn't happen, but also to execute the plays, and it's not our job to fuss if we get figured out, we just have to win games." Something to that effect. He didn't weigh in on the part that breaks the rules or what he thinks should happen or anything like that. Only said people do it, it is what it is, I need to figure out a way to beat Bama, so I don't care.
This is neither an endorsement of their view nor a critique of it either. Just interesting how differently people inside the game seem to view things as opposed to fans, and possibly the NCAA.
Trust me on this. The coaches who have been affected by it, as well as the players who have been affected by it care very, very much.
It’s easy to go out there and find people like Brian, Kelly, and Deion sanders who will say they don’t care. Well, of course they don’t. It did not affect them.
Obviously, the Big Ten coaches and athletic directors have been told to keep their mouth shut
But even with that, if you watch Greg Schiano’s press conference, or Tom, Allen’s press conference, they more than care, and they are blazing angry about this. And they are angry because they know they were cheated very directly during games.
Go and see what Rick Neiheisel said about it.
set Michigan aside for a minute
Separately, from that, any time a team knows your exact play call in modern day football, it exponentially increases the chance of their success, and exponentially decreases the chances of your success. Period. Anyone who says different has just now sat and thought about it long enough, or just doesn’t have any basic understanding of how modern football works.
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Lol Mumford and sons sucks and Chase Young hasn't done squat in the NFl since his rookie year. Bosa is a fcking STUD though, that's for sure.
Laughing out loud are the 1st symtoms Hutch is the greatest sure he is, of course -wipe the foam off your mouth then ask the nice young men with the nets to adjust your meds.Hutch is the greatest. Somehow he isn't on this list :017:
https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/2023-nfl-edge-rusher-rankings-nick-bosa-micah-parsons-myles-garrett-fight-for-top-spot
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Trust me on this. The coaches who have been affected by it, as well as the players who have been affected by it care very, very much.
I don't doubt it, I can't speak for them, obviously.
What I'm saying is these guys all had stories about teams getting their signals and eventually they realized it. Some of them talked about using it to intentionally confuse the opponent thereafter. Others talked about lining up and saying "don't care if you know the play, I'm about to put you on your ass, see if your decoding helps you with that."
My point was, while the signals were probably obtained a different way in this case, these are people who were affected by sign-stealing. And mostly they knew it at the time, in the case of their stories.
Frankly, I had no idea teams spent much effort on figuring out an opponent's signals.
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Lol Mumford and sons sucks
I’ve officially seen the worst take in this thread now.
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Might as well
https://youtu.be/31BwWZBfe5E?si=VXEOd2ljzgE86g38
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I don't doubt it, I can't speak for them, obviously.
What I'm saying is these guys all had stories about teams getting their signals and eventually they realized it. Some of them talked about using it to intentionally confuse the opponent thereafter. Others talked about lining up and saying "don't care if you know the play, I'm about to put you on your ass, see if your decoding helps you with that."
My point was, while the signals were probably obtained a different way in this case, these are people who were affected by sign-stealing. And mostly they knew it at the time, in the case of their stories.
Frankly, I had no idea teams spent much effort on figuring out an opponent's signals.
Damn near every former player I've heard talk about this....laugh at it. Football at it's core has always been and always will be a line of scrimmage, toughness, blocking & tackling game. The teams that have the toughest, baddest dudes up front- usually win the games. See UGA...they had fcking mutants in '21 and '22 on that front 7.
And Clemson was notorious for sign stealing with Venebales at DC, and my complete guess here is they probably stretched some rules as well in terms of gathering that information....and Clemson also happened to have ELITE QB play and absolute freaking mutants on their DL. That'll win you lotta games.
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I know players don't think about bad calls the same way fans do, and if I had to guess, that's because when you're the one playing the game you can't afford to think like that. The attitude has to be "It doesn't matter what happens, my job is to win the play and the game." I've seen former players reminisce about old games and talk about erroneous calls, but it eats at them more in the sense that they didn't overcome it and get the job done....it's very different than hearing fans talk about those moments, where the bad call itself chaps our hide many years later. In their eyes, their job is to win against whatever they face, not gripe about getting a bad break.
In light of that, I guess I shouldn't be surprised at what I've seen from several former players and a current coach over the past week. Former UGA qb Aaron Murray does several podcasts, one with a former LSU O-lineman, and at least one more with various former UGA players. The former LSU OL guy does ESPN radio in Baton Rouge with another former LSU tailback.
I've heard all of them talking about the Michigan thing this past week. They pretty much all acknowledge that its against the rules, but to a man, none of them seem to care. Murray is the harshest about it, but even he's pretty meh on it. The prevailing attitude seems to be that they all tried to decode the other teams signals when they played, they knew the other teams were trying to get theirs too, and who gives a f, because you still have to go out and play. A UGA O-lineman--I don't know his name--kind of summed it up when he said he didn't care when he knew a defense had their signals, they still had to stop us and I was gonna make sure to flatten whoever lines up on me whether they know the play or not.
Current LSU coach Brian Kelly did his weekly appearance on the Finebaum show yesterday and was asked about the scandal. His answer was basically "everybody is always trying to get your signals, we know that, it's been going on forever, our job is to make sure as best we can that doesn't happen, but also to execute the plays, and it's not our job to fuss if we get figured out, we just have to win games." Something to that effect. He didn't weigh in on the part that breaks the rules or what he thinks should happen or anything like that. Only said people do it, it is what it is, I need to figure out a way to beat Bama, so I don't care.
This is neither an endorsement of their view nor a critique of it either. Just interesting how differently people inside the game seem to view things as opposed to fans, and possibly the NCAA.
that podcast with T-Bob and Aaron Murray is probably the best CFB podcast there is imo. Murray is a really smart dude and you can tell his football IQ was/is high level. T-Bob is pretty damn hilarious as well.
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Trust me on this. The coaches who have been affected by it, as well as the players who have been affected by it care very, very much.
It’s easy to go out there and find people like Brian, Kelly, and Deion sanders who will say they don’t care. Well, of course they don’t. It did not affect them.
Obviously, the Big Ten coaches and athletic directors have been told to keep their mouth shut
But even with that, if you watch Greg Schiano’s press conference, or Tom, Allen’s press conference, they more than care, and they are blazing angry about this. And they are angry because they know they were cheated very directly during games.
Go and see what Rick Neiheisel said about it.
Yes, I'm sure crying Ryan cares a lot, as he is a pussy. Dude got his vagina sore over some comments a 193 year old Lou Holthsh said about him and his team and went ballistic.
Greg Schinao is a doosh, Tom Allen is a clown, and Rick Nuheisel is a fcking cumstain and he absolutely hates Jeem by the way. Oh and all 3 of them are dogshit coaches as well....for the record.
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Michigan insiders John U Bacon and Sam Webb both saying Jeem's contract extension is near the finish line and close to 80%- and that it'll be done very soon.
ESPN's Pete Thamel basically cried like a little baby over this live on Pat McAfee's podcast.
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https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1719406653613740340?s=20
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Yes, I'm sure crying Ryan cares a lot, as he is a pussy. Dude got his vagina sore over some comments a 193 year old Lou Holthsh said about him and his team and went ballistic.
Greg Schinao is a doosh, Tom Allen is a clown, and Rick Nuheisel is a fcking cumstain and he absolutely hates Jeem by the way. Oh and all 3 of them are dogshit coaches as well....for the record.
Dude. Let it go. Every single player and coach that got cheated disagrees with you. They are just not aloud to talk right now. That’s obvious.
If it isn’t a big deal to video a teams signs in person, and have them to study - why did Michigan do it 35 times in 2 1/2 seasons? Why did they have a schedule for it and a budget? Why are they claiming no knowledge of it? Why did their bigger opponents get video recorded multiple times ?
Any coach who is honest about it and disagrees with us a “ douche” or a “ cumstain”?
And please stop YOUR incessant WHINING about Ryan Day. It is base in your deflection of getting caught cheating- and has no basis in fact- and not one shred of evidence. So Ironic- your the one who is constantly crying!
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Ryan Day has zero known involvement or crying.
Michigan has not been proven to have cheated.
The arguments against both those statements are flawed and false until facts prove otherwise.
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Dude. Let it go. Every single player and coach that got cheated disagrees with you. They are just not aloud to talk right now. That’s obvious.
If it isn’t a big deal to video a teams signs in person, and have them to study - why did Michigan do it 35 times in 2 1/2 seasons? Why did they have a schedule for it and a budget? Why are they claiming no knowledge of it? Why did their bigger opponents get video recorded multiple times ?
Any coach who is honest about it and disagrees with us a “ douche” or a “ cumstain”?
And please stop YOUR incessant WHINING about Ryan Day. It is base in your deflection of getting caught cheating- and has no basis in fact- and not one shred of evidence. So Ironic- your the one who is constantly crying!
Nah thanks.
Schiano has always been as asshat doosh and Nuehisel is a weasel and a literal cumstain. Has nothing to do with this situation at all. That's just who those people are.
I am not whining about born on 3rd base. That's just what he is- a soft pussy. Which is why his teams have for the most part been soft. I'm sure he's mad as hell because his ass is literally on the line. If he loses a 3rd in a row to Michigan....those nutjobs in Columbus are going to be all over his ass. His seat is going to be scorching white hot. And if he lost a 4th in a row in 2024 by some way- he's probably fired. He's feeling scared, feeling nervous, feeling the pressure. I don't blame him. That OSU job is a pressure cooker like few others in CFB.
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Ryan Day has zero known involvement or crying.
Michigan has not been proven to have cheated.
The arguments against both those statements are flawed and false until facts prove otherwise.
I have to disagree. Nobody is refuting that Stalions purchased the tickets, recorded the signs and plays, and uploaded them.
Under any interpretation of the rules, that is cheating.
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https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1718447278912926127?s=20
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Portnoy a bigger slappy than Bacon or webb.Looking for clicks
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I have to disagree. Nobody is refuting that Stalions purchased the tickets, recorded the signs and plays, and uploaded them.
Under any interpretation of the rules, that is cheating.
Under any interpretation? Many attorneys will disagree. Therefore the NCAA will eventually go away quietly.
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Under any interpretation? Many attorneys will disagree. Therefore the NCAA will eventually go away quietly.
Do you disagree?
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Thankfully I spoke to my daughter today. A UM grad and AVID Michigan football fan
Had not spoken to her since this all started- she is in Denver and works a lot of hours/ nights in anesthesiology.
I was not going to bring it up- she is a happy, optimistic “ the world is my oyster” kind of person.
But she brought it up after telling me all her exciting stuff that’s she has going on.
She just said her and dozens of UM friends are totally embarrassed. She pointed out that she has heard all of the deflection and excuses, including the “it didn’t give them a big advantage.”
Her take was- if it did give them a big advantage- they are big cheaters. If it only gave them a small advantage- they are stupid cheaters. But either way- the most embarrassing thing was hearing all of the online chatter defending/deflecting/excusing/ rationalizing the cheating. She just wants them to be accountable for what they did, clean it up, and move on.
It was enlightening talking to a responsible adult about it. Made me proud- we raised her right.
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Under any interpretation? Many attorneys will disagree. Therefore the NCAA will eventually go away quietly.
Attorneys will disagree to the extent that they can legally stretch the bounds of plausibility if you pay them enough.
But what part of 'no advance in person scouting of future opponents' coupled with a Michigan staffer buying tickets and having people go into stadiums, record the opposing sideline, and upload video to a server he maintained does not violate that rule? It is advanced, in-person scouting of future opponents.
We can argue how much benefit they got from it. We can argue if it was a rogue staffer or if this was known and approved up the chain.
But I don't see anyone arguing he didn't do it, or that he wasn't employed by Michigan and directing this activity, or that it wasn't advanced in-person scouting. Seems pretty clear-cut to me.
OSU fans--can you make sure Day has my Venmo? I keep arguing in this thread as a neutral and I haven't gotten my payments yet???
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https://twitter.com/Johnubacon/status/1719469693256253643?s=20
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https://twitter.com/Johnubacon/status/1719469693256253643?s=20
Hope this is true.
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Hope this is true.
if JUB is reporting it, it's true.
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Do you disagree?
We don’t know facts yet, but every person willing to say Michigan is a cheater is acting like they know all the facts. So yes, I disagree until more comes out and constantly reading they are cheaters makes me shake my head. Calling them cheaters while acting like the team you root for isn’t a part of signing stealing and version of “cheating” is laughable. What’s ironic is you are trying to justify Michigan’s version of “cheating” is just worse than your schools version of “cheating.”
Maybe Michigan just found a flaw in a rule and exposed it. If that is reality, it’s not cheating no matter how many times you say it and not a single person here taking one side or another know all the facts.
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We don’t know facts yet, but every person willing to say Michigan is a cheater is acting like they know all the facts. So yes, I disagree until more comes out and constantly reading they are cheaters makes me shake my head. Calling them cheaters while acting like the team you root for isn’t a part of signing stealing and version of “cheating” is laughable. What’s ironic is you are trying to justify Michigan’s version of “cheating” is just worse than your schools version of “cheating.”
Maybe Michigan just found a flaw in a rule and exposed it. If that is reality, it’s not cheating no matter how many times you say it and not a single person here taking one side or another know all the facts.
Wow. Ok. The team I root for is going to opponents games, and taping their signals. I think I have actually heard it all now.
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Wow. Ok. The team I root for is going to opponents games, and taping their signals. I think I have actually heard it all now.
Wow Ohio state has never had a version of cheating. I’ve heard it all now.
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Wow Ohio state has never had a version of cheating. I’ve heard it all now.
I see what you’re saying now. Since Ohio State “ cheated at some point in the past- let’s use the only example that we know of/ because players traded bowl memorabilia for tattoos-and their coach. Definitely lied about knowing about it.- that makes it OK for Michigan to cheat, for 2 1/2 seasons by illegally, capturing the other teams, play calls and studying them.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
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Nah thanks.
Schiano has always been as asshat doosh and Nuehisel is a weasel and a literal cumstain. Has nothing to do with this situation at all. That's just who those people are.
I am not whining about born on 3rd base. That's just what he is- a soft pussy. Which is why his teams have for the most part been soft. I'm sure he's mad as hell because his ass is literally on the line. If he loses a 3rd in a row to Michigan....those nutjobs in Columbus are going to be all over his ass. His seat is going to be scorching white hot. And if he lost a 4th in a row in 2024 by some way- he's probably fired. He's feeling scared, feeling nervous, feeling the pressure. I don't blame him. That OSU job is a pressure cooker like few others in CFB.
The funny part is, I think Coach day broke Booger boy and Michigan. Lol. And his first match against day he got smoked, again.
Coincidentally, after six years of stinking up the joint, and avoiding Ohio State during the Covid year with a fake excuse, booger eater’s teams are suddenly good, and it just perfectly corresponds with stealing the other teams play calls.
Tslk about soft. And you couldn’t find a bigger pussy in the coaching ranks, then hairball.
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I see what you’re saying now. Since Ohio State “ cheated at some point in the past- let’s use the only example that we know of/ because players traded bowl memorabilia for tattoos-and their coach. Definitely lied about knowing about it.- that makes it OK for Michigan to cheat, for 2 1/2 seasons by illegally, capturing the other teams, play calls and studying them.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
What will your excuse be when Michigan beats osu this year? They’re cheaters? There’s 2 months to prep and make sure signs are different. You’re acting like michigsn is only good because they’re cheaters. When Michigan wins this year, the excuses will be gone for all those screaming cheaters every chance they can.
So many people run around claiming Michigan and Michigan fans act like they are high and mighty when they’re the ones actually doing exactly that on behalf of their program. It’s like dirty politician move.. just like following it up calling other deflectors when you continue to go on and on labeling them cheaters over and over. And then wonder why you get a reaction.. why? Because hearing someone say cheater over and over based on espn sources with no real facts yet is bloody annoying. So yeah.. keep saying cheater and wonder why normally calm and rational people start to get irritated.
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What will your excuse be when Michigan beats osu this year? They’re cheaters? There’s 2 months to prep and make sure signs are different. You’re acting like michigsn is only good because they’re cheaters. When Michigan wins this year, the excuses will be gone for all those screaming cheaters every chance they can.
So many people run around claiming Michigan and Michigan fans act like they are high and mighty when they’re the ones actually doing exactly that on behalf of their program. It’s like dirty politician move.. just like following it up calling other deflectors when you continue to go on and on labeling them cheaters over and over. And then wonder why you get a reaction.. why? Because hearing someone say cheater over and over based on espn sources with no real facts yet is bloody annoying. So yeah.. keep saying cheater and wonder why normally calm and rational people start to get irritated.
Yeah- the UM fans that post here are calm and rational. 😂😂😂😂😂
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https://twitter.com/aaronmurray11/status/1719486111234310353?t=2htt858UWZp1W6BvccfpLw&s=19
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Football weather Hellz yeah
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https://twitter.com/LateKickJosh/status/1719492780165120222?t=AdpBZDyODpQTNRm4rA8M9Q&s=19
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What will your excuse be when Michigan beats osu this year? They’re cheaters? There’s 2 months to prep and make sure signs are different. You’re acting like michigsn is only good because they’re cheaters. When Michigan wins this year, the excuses will be gone for all those screaming cheaters every chance they can.
Bear in mind, you're opening a door you may not want to. If OSU wins, or if PSU wins, or if Purdue or Maryland catch lightning in a bottle and score an upset, do you want all the Buckeye fans dunking on you on this one?
Michigan is a good team. Ohio State is a good team. But CFB should show you that any team can be tripped up. Making the outcome of The Game (or any lessor opponents) a referendum on how effective Michigan's cheating was cheapens the game for all of our fan bases.
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And in college football momentum = recruiting. Harbaugh was one ducked OSU game away from getting fired, and instead was recruiting and hiring as a CFO program, rather than a lame duck head coach program. A good deal of their staff and roster are the product of the switch the magically flipped in Year 7
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Thankfully I spoke to my daughter today. A UM grad and AVID Michigan football fan
Now I'm opening an investigation into your Ohio State fandom. An OSU guy with a Michigan daughter? That's shady as hell.
As usual, @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) will be representing my interests, expect a letter from him forthwith.
I'm gonna get to the bottom of all yall's shenanigans around here. Michigan men with Ohio St. business partners....Buckeyes with Wolverine daughters.... Have some decency, all of you.
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I'm just putting this out there, in case any spies anywhere are interested.
If you'll get me frequent tix at the 50 yard line close to the LSU bench, I swear I'll film every dang thing you could possibly want. Secure me a good parking spot and I'll throw in a stolen playbook.
Michigan spies, Bama spies, A&M, whoever....y'all hit me up.
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You have to work your way up to that. The one guy who talked to ESPN, said the pay wasn't enough to warrant sitting through a Penn State UMass game in the rain. And that's where you have to start. You play your cards right, They can secure you a sideline pass for a game between a MAC school and the worst team in the big 10. Eventually, you put in the work, you got a 50 yard line seat before a Penn State Ohio State game
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Now I'm opening an investigation into your Ohio State fandom. An OSU guy with a Michigan daughter? That's shady as hell.
As usual, @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) will be representing my interests, expect a letter from him forthwith.
I'm gonna get to the bottom of all yall's shenanigans around here. Michigan men with Ohio St. business partners....Buckeyes with Wolverine daughters.... Have some decency, all of you.
It is twisted. My other daughter is an MSU grad. 😬
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Is your wife an ND alum?
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Listening to CMU's coach it sounds like that was Conner Stalions on his sideline for the MSU opener. I'm guessing he had help from someone on CMU's staff given the CMU coaches gear he was wearing.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Full quote from CMU Head coach Jim McElwain: <a href="https://t.co/AjKf37JhRf">pic.twitter.com/AjKf37JhRf</a></p>— Kennedy Broadwell (@BroadwellK) <a href="https://twitter.com/BroadwellK/status/1719558811608887551?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 1, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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https://twitter.com/MelvinIzzoIII/status/1719695092464636394?t=ZmrGmeKUi28GrayECoZkGQ&s=19
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The only person who knows what happened is Stalions. Michigan's athletic department and the NCAA know some stuff and are still investigating. The Athletic and everyone else knows squat at this point.
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It was AI
https://twitter.com/BoardGeniuses/status/1719727242564210942?s=20
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It was AI
https://twitter.com/BoardGeniuses/status/1719727242564210942?s=20
😂😂😂😂
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CMU should have been able to easily identify this by now but we're hearing nothing from Mt. Pleasant.
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Um, because it appears one of their staffers gave him the pass, which might be their own NCAA violation
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CMU should have been able to easily identify this by now but we're hearing nothing from Mt. Pleasant.
maybe they just don't give a damn
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Bear in mind, you're opening a door you may not want to. If OSU wins, or if PSU wins, or if Purdue or Maryland catch lightning in a bottle and score an upset, do you want all the Buckeye fans dunking on you on this one?
Michigan is a good team. Ohio State is a good team. But CFB should show you that any team can be tripped up. Making the outcome of The Game (or any lessor opponents) a referendum on how effective Michigan's cheating was cheapens the game for all of our fan bases.
Along these lines, I've been thinking for a while now that this years game will have a big impact on how this is viewed nationally.
My guess is that it really will not have any impact locally. Locally, Michigan fans are going to say that they didn't cheat or it didn't matter and tOSU fans are going to say that Michigan won by cheating. We could have that debate now or 25 years from now, no difference. Where there likely WILL be a difference is among neutral fanbases.
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https://twitter.com/FirstTake/status/1719751959328981158?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1719751959328981158%7Ctwgr%5E0db5d17c511e682822d7b669c27bc0d4ec114710%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fcollege%2Fohio-state%2Fboard%2F120%2FContents%2Fpaul-finebaum-stephen-a-smith-calls-out-michigan-219305144%2F%3Fpage%3D1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXrlonE6BRU
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/michigan-sign-stealing-scandal-college-football-coaches-sound-off-about-in-the-athletic-poll-amid-connor-stalions-accusations/ar-AA1jd8OQ
I think it’s already starting to boil nationally.
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I agree
the Big Ten conference should be able to police their own here, but there's big $$$ involved
if it was Purdue, the conference would have already done something
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I think it’s already starting to boil nationally.
C'mon Screamin' A? I'd drag my balls thru a catus patch before even considering a damn thing that chode bellowed
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I'd drag my balls thru a catus patch
nuttin I'd want to watch or anything you oughta be proud of
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I'd drag my balls thru a catus patch
nuttin I'd want to watch or anything you oughta be proud of
ESPN The Ocho would air it
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If it was an SEC school, ESPN would be covering it far less.
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If it was an SEC school, ESPN would be covering it far less.
And FOX would be covering it far more
https://twitter.com/LateKickJosh/status/1719753191292535191?s=20
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And FOX would be covering it far more
https://twitter.com/LateKickJosh/status/1719753191292535191?s=20
Exactly my point.
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Exactly my point.
That's CBS
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I'd drag my balls thru a catus patch
nuttin I'd want to watch or anything you oughta be proud of
Evidently you have been soaking your meats too long - some of those moldy enzyme's are rotting your medula.I never said you or anyone else should watch or that I'd be proud of it.Why on earth would you state that? :043: Don't worry FF the BIG is not going to dump the 'Skers,not yet anyway
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And FOX would be covering it far more
https://twitter.com/LateKickJosh/status/1719753191292535191?s=20
Comical little blue CGI light. I have my doubts about the NCAA confirming the identity of that person unless he voluntarily confessed. I doubt the NCAA could get it out of him even if they water boarded him.
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Urban weighs in. SM- you will like Urban- if only for a minute:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/urban-meyer-blasts-media-firestorm-surrounding-michigan-football/ar-AA1jeMiE
But to the claim nobody cares and nobody thinks it was a huge in- game advantage- - well those things have been blown to hell:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/jim-harbaugh-michigan-football-get-staggering-declaration-from-fbs-coaches-amid-scandal/ar-AA1jfxGt
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/espn-vast-majority-of-big-ten-coaches-lobbying-conference-to-punish-michigan-football/ar-AA1jfzeV
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/lou-holtz-slams-michigan-football-sign-stealing-scandal-i-find-it-deplorable/ar-AA1jg3hk
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But "Michigan hasn't played anybody."
No due process, no Notice of Allegations from the NCAA, just a bunch of TV talking heads that don't know what happened. The college football equivalent of a lynch mob.
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lynch mobs can be quite effective
Right or wrong
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Urban weighs in. SM- you will like Urban- if only for a minute:
I will never like Urban, not for a second. It’s more comical to hear OSU nation trash Harbaugh as a bad person when they supported this guy for so many years, when character is something this man completely lacks.
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I will never like Urban, not for a second. It’s more comical to hear OSU nation trash Harbaugh as a bad person when they supported this guy for so many years, when character is something this man completely lacks.
I agree while noting he's been a hugely successful coach.
I kind of do like Spurrier and Saban, a bit.
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Growing up I hated Spurrier. Either I got thicker skin as I got older or my values and priorities shifted and I realized the things that annoyed me about him didn't matter much and there were other people far more worthy of my ire.
Nevertheless, it will always be a source of great happiness to me that his final game was such a thorough whipping in Tiger Stadium that he immediately retired mid-season. After the 90's, there wasn't a more perfect way for him to go out.
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But "Michigan hasn't played anybody."
No due process, no Notice of Allegations from the NCAA, just a bunch of TV talking heads that don't know what happened. The college football equivalent of a lynch mob.
This might surprise you- but to a high degree, I agree with you. Michigan cant respond to allegations if they don't know exactly what they are. And contrary to popular opinion, the NCAA has not provided them with any of the evidence they may have collected. They have just interviewed them and asked for "stuff." So from that standpoint- I agree with you. The only evidence we know of is floating around in the media.
On the other hand the University does know what Stalions role is/was. It is almost assuredly true he bought the tickets to opponents games, (that info would not be out there if it were not factual and documented), and their seems to be video proof of people taping the signals for entire games. We have all seen video proof that he watches the opponents signs and relays -immediately-that info to the OC and DC- during a game.
This is unchartered territory for everyone- the NCAA, the Big, and even fans/coaches. If the evidence proves to be true- it has had a HUGE impact on the integrity of this season as well as the last 2. No other investigation has ever been around POTENTIAL, current in- game misconduct that has such an immediate impact on so much of the CFB landscape.
Knowing the NCAA process will be after the fact regardless of how it turns out, it leaves it to the Michigan administration and/or the Big to get involved.
If your the BIG, do you just let the NCAA play out, knowing there is a strong POSSIBILITY that these games will be vacated, and anything UM accomplishes on the field wont count in the end? Thus, kind of screwing over other teams, both in and out of conference? They certainly cant punish Michigan without hard evidence of wrongdoing- which they clearly dont have- at least yet.
What they should do- knowing what is at stake and it's immediate impacts on the current season, is go to the NCAA and say- where are you with this? Do you have any credible evidence of wrongdoing? If yes- please share it with us. If they do, and they hand it to the BIG- the BIG should then take it to UM and say- this is what we have so far. How do you respond?
Based on that the BIG and UM should make some kind of announcement as to what their position is. Like "at this time we dont have evidence to suggest we need to get involved" or "we have enough credible evidence to be convinced their was misconduct that impacted games, and here is what we (Or UM) are going to do at this time."
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lynch mobs can be quite effective
Right or wrong
Reminds me of a line from the flick "Oh Brother,where Art Thou"
"This band of miscreants, this very evening, interfered with a lynch mob in the performance of its duty."
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This might surprise you- but to a high degree, I agree with you. Michigan cant respond to allegations if they don't know exactly what they are. And contrary to popular opinion, the NCAA has not provided them with any of the evidence they may have collected. They have just interviewed them and asked for "stuff." So from that standpoint- I agree with you. The only evidence we know of is floating around in the media.
On the other hand the University does know what Stalions role is/was. It is almost assuredly true he bought the tickets to opponents games, (that info would not be out there if it were not factual and documented), and their seems to be video proof of people taping the signals for entire games. We have all seen video proof that he watches the opponents signs and relays -immediately-that info to the OC and DC- during a game.
This is unchartered territory for everyone- the NCAA, the Big, and even fans/coaches. If the evidence proves to be true- it has had a HUGE impact on the integrity of this season as well as the last 2. No other investigation has ever been around POTENTIAL, current in- game misconduct that has such an immediate impact on so much of the CFB landscape.
Knowing the NCAA process will be after the fact regardless of how it turns out, it leaves it to the Michigan administration and/or the Big to get involved.
If your the BIG, do you just let the NCAA play out, knowing there is a strong POSSIBILITY that these games will be vacated, and anything UM accomplishes on the field wont count in the end? Thus, kind of screwing over other teams, both in and out of conference? They certainly cant punish Michigan without hard evidence of wrongdoing- which they clearly dont have- at least yet.
What they should do- knowing what is at stake and it's immediate impacts on the current season, is go to the NCAA and say- where are you with this? Do you have any credible evidence of wrongdoing? If yes- please share it with us. If they do, and they hand it to the BIG- the BIG should then take it to UM and say- this is what we have so far. How do you respond?
Based on that the BIG and UM should make some kind of announcement as to what their position is. Like "at this time we dont have evidence to suggest we need to get involved" or "we have enough credible evidence to be convinced their was misconduct that impacted games, and here is what we (Or UM) are going to do at this time."
i would agree with you on this well thought out response. it does seem like the big ten coaches would like an answer now before the end of the year I just don't like guilty until proven innocent. but if the evidence is there and they are still digging up stuff for a better case, give what they have and lets see where it fall prior to the end of the year.
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Big Ten football coaches frustrated with conference stance on Michigan: ‘We want something done now’: Sources
By Bruce Feldman and Nicole Auerbach
For the past two weeks, coaches across college football have been riveted by the alleged Michigan sign-stealing scheme, but inside the Big Ten, the topic has been more than just a curiosity. On Wednesday’s Big Ten coaches video call with commissioner Tony Petitti, and after Jim Harbaugh left the call, that frustration was voiced loud and clear, according to conference coaches, who said they don’t feel like the new Big Ten commissioner is “motivated” to do anything about the Wolverines.
“There is just a ton of frustration,” a Big Ten coach told The Athletic on Thursday morning. “Look at Jim Harbaugh’s record before this started. The guy was on the hot seat before 2021, and now he’s like the king of college football. … No doubt this all has had a profound effect.
“This guy’s being investigated for three different things now between the (alleged) illegal signal stealing, the (alleged) illegal recruiting during COVID and that investigation into the offensive coordinator and alleged computer hacking. There are guys (on that call) who could lose jobs, and then there’s this guy over here (Harbaugh) who is gonna get a new, bigger contract now, and they won’t do anything about him.”
Asked to describe the tone of the coaches’ sentiment expressed to Petitti, another Big Ten coach called it “angry” — particularly at the Big Ten’s lack of action, or even apparent interest in taking any.
“Everybody’s upset,” that coach told The Athletic. “Why is nothing being done? We want to know, what else do you need to know to take action? We (the Big Ten head coaches) want something done now. I don’t think people understand the advantage that what they’re (allegedly) doing gives you. People think, ‘OK, now that everybody knows, we all can just move on.’ Like, ‘now, it’s fair.’ Well, no, it isn’t. Not at all. This changes the way you operate. A lot of teams have been doing things a certain way for years. Now, it’s forcing you to teach your players a whole new way to communicate just for them. People think that this is just advanced scouting. This was damn near espionage.”
A third Big Ten head coach told The Athletic that this is “one of the most egregious breaches in the spirit of the game” he’s ever heard of.
“They (Michigan) have been manipulating the game and cheating the game for two-and-a-half years. To know exactly what the other team is doing, Michigan might as well have been playing with 15 guys on the field,” he said. “What’s the message the Big Ten is sending now by doing nothing? Win now, pay later? We might as well just send people to (scout) their practices and their games. It doesn’t encourage anybody to follow the rules. It’s just telling them to do the opposite and say, f— it.”
Michigan should be punished, say 94% of CFB coaches in our poll. What else did it reveal?
The NCAA is investigating Michigan’s football program amid allegations that the Wolverines used illegal in-person scouting and the recording of signals to steal signs this season. Ahead of the Michigan-Michigan State game on Oct. 21, the Big Ten approached MSU and said it was made aware of “credible evidence” regarding the sign-stealing allegations. The Big Ten said it would monitor the NCAA’s investigation into Michigan.
“The Big Ten is so much more powerful than the NCAA,” that third Big Ten coach said. “Why are you just sitting back and doing nothing about this? The Big Ten can’t pound its chest for the last 30 years about how it does the right thing ethically (when other conferences like the SEC won’t) and then have this go on. If this were a team in the bottom half of the Big Ten, would this be handled in the same way?
“When a running back gets hurt against Michigan because they knew exactly what play was coming, will that kid and his family have the ability to sue the Big Ten?”
The NCAA investigation is ongoing, a process that typically moves slowly, which makes it difficult to imagine it will reach a resolution by the time the postseason begins. The Big Ten does have the ability to act under its sportsmanship policy, but that doesn’t mean that it would want to act quickly or decisively before the NCAA completes its entire investigation and allows Michigan a chance to respond to its findings.
This is an unprecedented situation; whatever Petitti decides to do (or not do) will set a precedent. The Big Ten itself doesn’t have investigators, so it needs to rely upon the NCAA to do that part — and to determine who else was involved in the alleged scouting scheme. It’s not clear exactly what the coaches would want the league to do to punish Michigan; banning the team from competing in the Big Ten championship, for example, would harm players who had nothing to do with the sign-stealing apparatus.
A source briefed on the coaches’ call said Big Ten coaches are concerned about whether Michigan “should represent the Big Ten.”
“No matter what happens, if Michigan continues to move forward, the clouds will follow,” the source said. “They’re reading the tea leaves and wondering why the Big Ten hasn’t done anything yet. Every week and every day that goes by, people are like, ‘Something’s gotta give.’ It’s getting a little bit out of hand when you see him (allegedly) on the Central Michigan sideline. The playing field is not level right now. How can you have a team that you know has a competitive advantage over you still being allowed to play? That’s what the coaches are grappling with.”
“It feels like (former commissioner) Kevin (Warren) taking over and then COVID,” the source continued. “Tony’s walking into this situation, and people are calling for the league to make a statement before they have all the facts.”
Despite frustration from all corners of the conference, sources at four different Big Ten schools said they do not expect the conference to levy any sort of punishment against Michigan before the season ends.
Earlier this week, Central Michigan said it is investigating whether suspended Michigan staffer Connor Stalions was on the CMU sideline during the Chippewas’ Sept. 1 game at Michigan State. Screenshots of a person who looks similar to Stalions began circulating online Monday night, and The Athletic obtained more photos of the person on the sideline Tuesday.
Stalions, who was suspended with pay by Michigan on Oct. 20, is at the center of the NCAA’s investigation into the alleged scouting and sign-stealing scheme. Stalions bought tickets to games in at least seven Big Ten stadiums before those teams played the Wolverines over the past three seasons, including the 2023 season, sources told The Athletic last month. Purchasing the tickets is not a violation of NCAA rules, but using them to scout and record other teams would violate the rules, prohibiting in-person, on-campus scouting and the audio or video recording of signals.
On Monday, coach Jim Harbaugh met with reporters and said “the people that know us the most think the most of us” as Michigan faces the NCAA investigation. He has denied knowledge of the alleged scouting.
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Klatt carrying water for Michigan/Harbaugh?
Yes Joel coaches are mad. And some of that “success” you’re making it sound like other coaches are jealous of came about because of Michigan’s elaborate sign stealing system.
Edit:
Yes Joel, coaches are understandably “mad.” The “success Michigan has had over the last two+ seasons” has a “direct relationship” to Michigan elaborately stealing their signs.
https://twitter.com/joelklatt/status/1720174955919536521
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Klatt likes to take contrarian positions to other mediots. And since the mediots are basically complete idiots, it makes him right, quite a bit of the time. Whether intention or unintentional.
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Klatt carrying water for Michigan/Harbaugh?
Yes Joel coaches are mad. And some of that “success” you’re making it sound like other coaches are jealous of came about because of Michigan’s elaborate sign stealing system.
https://twitter.com/joelklatt/status/1720174955919536521
That FOX "A" team has been slurping Harbaugh since Day 1.
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Klatt likes to take contrarian positions to other mediots. And since the mediots are basically complete idiots, it makes him right, quite a bit of the time. Whether intention or unintentional.
Maybe, but you would never guess from listening to him that he didn't go to Michigan. He makes Desmond Howard sound evenhanded. Although it seems oddly Harbaugh specific
https://athlonsports.com/college-football/watch-joel-klatt-makes-his-opinion-on-michigan-investigation-very-clear
https://www.maizenbrew.com/2019/12/5/20996830/michigan-football-news-jim-harbaugh-joel-klatt-all-big-ten-teams
https://thespun.com/big-ten/michigan-wolverines/joel-klatt-goes-on-lengthy-rant-about-jim-harbaugh-michigan
https://nypost.com/2019/11/21/foxs-joel-klatt-on-whos-really-no-1-defending-jim-harbaugh-tua-fallout/
https://michigan.rivals.com/news/joel-klatt-this-may-be-jim-harbaugh-s-best-michigan-team-
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2015/09/30/michigan-football-joel-klatt/73108464/
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Maybe, but you would never guess from listening to him that he didn't go to Michigan. He makes Desmond Howard sound evenhanded
Eh, he sounds like that about every position he's taking. Lots of folks think he's a huge Texas fan because he doesn't parrot all the insipid bullshit that all the other mediots love to brainlessly repeat, about how UT is the devil and caused every problem in college football and blah blah blah.
If you've ever seen any video of what the Texas defense did to him in the 2005 B12 CCG, you'd understand that he has absolutely NO reason to like the Horns.
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And you also have to keep in mind that he's the official "Anti-SEC Voice" of Fox. So while ESPN is busy slobbing all over the SEC knob and saying that the SEC probably deserves 11 out of 12 playoff spots every year, he's the one that's been tasked with debunking all of that stuff.
Right now in the B1G, his choices to counter the Cult of SEC, are either Michigan or tOSU. tOSU has been successful forever, and Michigan has sucked for much of the past two decades but is finally looking respectable.
Pretty easy to see why he'd go with the Wolverines for his current list of hawt takes.
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Eh, those takes are back to 2015. I don't think Big Ten games were even on Fox in 2015. Everyone has their random take boners, his has just been Harbaugh for nearly a decade.
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Eh, those takes are back to 2015. I don't think Big Ten games were even on Fox in 2015. Everyone has their random take boners, his has just been Harbaugh for nearly a decade.
Huh?
Fox was a founding partner of the BTN in 2006 and currently owns well over 50% of the BTN. Of course they're going to pimp B1G schools.
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Yeah, I think Fox had the Big Ten Championship Game back then only.
And it's not even pimping Michigan or pimping the Big Ten. It's oddly super pro-Harbaugh. It's been a noted thing since at least 2018 on the interwbz. His general Michigan takes are fine. I wouldn't even describe him as pro-Michigan. He's very pro Harbaugh specifically. And a lot of those articles are Harbaugh vs. other Big Ten teams. One in 2015 said he would beat MSU and OSU in his first year, another said he was already the best coach in the Big Ten in his first year. So it's not even Harbaugh < SEC, it's Harbaugh < anything else the Big Ten has to offer
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OK I'll take your word for it.
But like I said, I've just seen a lot of his takes that are deliberately "anti-whatever-everyone-else-is-saying."
And, since all of the other mediots are complete dumbasses, it makes him right a lot of the time. Again, it's not that it's intentional or that he's super-smart. It's just that everyone else is so completely wrong most of the time, that taking the opposite view, makes him right.
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The damn alternate media out there fighting for the little guy. Michigan and Texas
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Michigan fired some ballboy or something for trying to get with a 13 year old girl, so things continue to look up
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Michigan fired some ballboy or something for trying to get with a 13 year old girl, so things continue to look up
Thank god I'm not a Michigan fan taking a shot every time I've read "low level staffer" over the past 2 weeks.
I'd almost be too drunk for Jim Harbaugh to get behind the wheel.
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The damn alternate media out there fighting for the little guy. Michigan and Texas
Ha!
I guess that's one way to read it.
In that case, he's fighting for the entire sad, underrepresented, B1G Conference.
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Ha!
I guess that's one way to read it.
In that case, he's fighting for the entire sad, underrepresented, B1G Conference.
Just wait til we get that West Coast bump
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Here’s what I don’t understand. If Michigan has simply been cheating in the eyes of Big 10 coaches and they can’t continue to do what they’ve been doing, why would Penn State or Ohio State want anything more than letting these games play out as normal? According to so many OsU fans, Michigan only won in 2022 and 2021 because Michigan had a competitive advantage from cheating. If that’s the truth, Michigan should have two losses on the field in the next 60 days and letting it play out would prove that more so than bringing the hammer down now.
If Michigan gets beat easily by those two schools, then add punishment of scholarship loss and bowl ban.
The true fear is with this much attention, if Michigan still runs the table, there’s no excuses left.
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Here’s what I don’t understand. If Michigan has simply been cheating in the eyes of Big 10 coaches and they can’t continue to do what they’ve been doing, why would Penn State or Ohio State want anything more than letting these games play out as normal? According to so many OsU fans, Michigan only won in 2022 and 2021 because Michigan had a competitive advantage from cheating. If that’s the truth, Michigan should have two losses on the field in the next 60 days and letting it play out would prove that more so than bringing the hammer down now.
If Michigan gets beat easily by those two schools, then add punishment of scholarship loss and bowl ban.
The true fear is with this much attention, if Michigan still runs the table, there’s no excuses left.
From reading some of the forums- the overwhelming majority of fans want to play Michigan- badly! But what does that have to to with the 22 game?
I think you would agree- this years version of OSU is not as good as last year’s. And this years version of UM is better.
Last year-the game was in Columbus Ohio state was favored. This year the game is it, Ann, Arbor, and Michigan will absolutely be favored
Just being honest with you, I have watched the 22 game multiple times on YouTube since this came out. It looks to me like in the first half Michigan had an idea of what to play calls were, but had an absolute certainty of what they were in the second half. It’s really obvious actually.
So hopefully that answers your question. They want to play Michigan this year, but they are pissed because they feel they were cheating last year. I’m not even saying that’s the right thought process but I’m just answering your question.
Ohio State scored 45 points a game last year, including putting up 41 what was thought to be the best defense in the country, and their own backyard, when they played Georgia.
Michigan gave up over 50 points to TCU. But somehow Michigan was able to hold Ohio State to three points in the second half of their game, in Columbus, with CJ, Stroud, Marvin, Harrison, and all those guys on Ohio State? Maybe they just played over their heads. But the optics of it are tough given what is being alleged now.
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Per Vegas, they are valuing what Michigan has been doing at somewhere between 10-20 points per game.
It's all fruit of the poisonous tree. We saw the roster Michigan trotted out in 2020, based on what their previous results had recruited, without the ability to send scouts to opponents. You can't just say "well Michigan doesn't have signals now". Michigan only still employees Harbaugh because he agreed to take a pay cut, and he ducked OSU when he would have lost by 60. It's not their fault, because I don't believe they all knew, but if you want to find the true results, than Michigan should also suspend all coaches and players who didn't play prior to 2021. Because their amazing turn didn't just impact the on field results, but the recruits and coaches who didn't start playing until Michigan started *allegedly* cheating
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It could all be true or Michigan could have been loaded with talent as they had the most players drafted in the NFL by a BIG10 school.
There’s been multiple reports that OsU changed their signs before the game last year because of the sign stealing Michigan rumors. So if they changed the signs, how did Michigan have the competitive advantage from previous viewing of their signs?
Again, your questions and these questions are the cycles that calmer fans think through and talk about. I don’t know if we’ll ever have answers. The one answer we will have is leave suspensions and punishment off the table until this season plays out. More answers will happen that way, than suits in a conference room or conference call will try to provide.
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From reading some of the forums- the overwhelming majority of fans want to play Michigan- badly! But what does that have to to with the 22 game?
I think you would agree- this years version of OSU is not as good as last year’s. And this years version of UM is better.
Last year-the game was in Columbus Ohio state was favored. This year the game is it, Ann, Arbor, and Michigan will absolutely be favored
Just being honest with you, I have watched the 22 game multiple times on YouTube since this came out. It looks to me like in the first half Michigan had an idea of what to play calls were, but had an absolute certainty of what they were in the second half. It’s really obvious actually.
So hopefully that answers your question. They want to play Michigan this year, but they are pissed because they feel they were cheating last year. I’m not even saying that’s the right thought process but I’m just answering your question.
Ohio State scored 45 points a game last year, including putting up 41 what was thought to be the best defense in the country, and their own backyard, when they played Georgia.
Michigan gave up over 50 points to TCU. But somehow Michigan was able to hold Ohio State to three points in the second half of their game, in Columbus, with CJ, Stroud, Marvin, Harrison, and all those guys on Ohio State? Maybe they just played over their heads. But the optics of it are tough given what is being alleged now.
Lulz.
Michigan man-handled OSU at the point of attack on BOTH SIDES of the ball in '21. In '22 Michigan's DL man-handled the OSU OL but the Michigan OL was struggling to get the running game going. Michigan OL went right back to MAN-HANDLING the OSU front 7 second half in '22. OSU was selling out to stop the run and blitzing the sh*t out of McCarthy the entire first half and didn't back off until after he lit them up over the top with big plays. Once Dickless Day's DC Knowles kept getting GASHED through the air he had to stop crowding the LOS- and well once that happened Michigan OL went right back to pushing Soft-Day and his merrymen of soft pussies around and the run game starting taking over.
Michigan's DEFENSE gave up 37 points to TCU. And it would've been 30 if DJ Turner didn't whiff on a one-on-one tackle. Ooops...should've had the signs to just make an easy open field tackle....
Teams are going to score points in bowl games...especially when they have MONTH PLUS to prepare for one specific team.
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From everything I read, you can only change your signals so much with NCAA practice limitations.
I can't imagine Michigan has EVER, even in the RichRod and Hoke years ever fallen below 3rd in talent in the Big Ten.
But I do agree, there is plenty of good reporting, but good reporting doesn't hold up anywhere but the court of public opinion. Michigan has plenty of good lawyers, paid very handsomely to advise them. And while deny, deny, deny, and let the NCAA take the banners down after the fact may fly at Auburn or Louisville, I can't possibly imagine the most elitest UM attorney is advising that. I assume they either (a) think they have a defense or (b) know they are so screwed they might as well hope the NCAA is too timid to act on it. Because I promise you UM has attorneys way smarter and well paid than me on it, and I truly don't believe as an institution their stance is to just delay, win a title, and see what happens
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From everything I read, you can only change your signals so much with NCAA practice limitations.
I can't imagine Michigan has EVER, even in the RichRod and Hoke years ever fallen below 3rd in talent in the Big Ten.
But I do agree, there is plenty of good reporting, but good reporting doesn't hold up anywhere but the court of public opinion. Michigan has plenty of good lawyers, paid very handsomely to advise them. And while deny, deny, deny, and let the NCAA take the banners down after the fact may fly at Auburn or Louisville, I can't possibly imagine the most elitest UM attorney is advising that. I assume they either (a) think they have a defense or (b) know they are so screwed they might as well hope the NCAA is too timid to act on it. Because I promise you UM has attorneys way smarter and well paid than me on it, and I truly don't believe as an institution their stance is to just delay, win a title, and see what happens
it's all about the money my friend.
NCAA gets paid BILLIONS from TV contracts. B1G gets paid BILLIONS from TV contracts. Michigan makes hundred plus million from it's football program. ESPN/FOX/CBS pay BILLIONS for TV rights.
Not a single one of those entities wants to see their wallets shortened. Michigan football is a TV cash cow. It's easily top 5 in terms of generating TV viewership which in turn generates ad revenue which in turn allows the TV networks to pay NCAA & B1G BILLIONS of dollars. The top 5-6 biggest tv audiences for the sport in America is probably Ohio State, Michigan, Bama, Notre Dame, Texas, and probably UGA- the new IT team of the moment. Bottom line is- they need them. They aren't going to hammer them because: everyone likes money too much.
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I agree. It's why Arizona, Louisville and Kansas skated on the Adidas stuff, while Oklahoma State got a 1 year tournament ban. I truly don't think anything will come from this, because there is too much money on the line. Hell, CMU will probably get a one year bowl ban for giving Stallions a sideline pass.
Just wait until the power conferences realize the NCAA is an unnecessary middle man with the tv networks. I do think what finally calms everything down is the conferences aligning to deal with the networks together. If they had done that in 2005, we could have avoided all of the realignment, and cut the NCAA out right there.
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I agree. It's why Arizona, Louisville and Kansas skated on the Adidas stuff, while Oklahoma State got a 1 year tournament ban. I truly don't think anything will come from this, because there is too much money on the line. Hell, CMU will probably get a one year bowl ban for giving Stallions a sideline pass
how crazy would that be if CMU gets kicked in the balls over this....sounds very NCAA'ish. Make an extreme example out of the little guy and let one of the big boys skirt.
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Michigan fired some ballboy or something for trying to get with a 13 year old girl, so things continue to look up
this and Schemy Schembechler's racist ass concerns me far more than stealing some signs....
I swear to Christ does Jeem fcking vet anybody that he hires? Or is he just such a fcking weirdo that he thinks other weirdos are "normal".
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this and Schemy Schembechler's racist ass concerns me far more than stealing some signs....
I swear to Christ does Jeem fcking vet anybody that he hires? Or is he just such a fcking weirdo that he thinks other weirdos are "normal".
He is super impressed by interns in charge of running the MSU pregame scoreboard trivia game
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https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38804628/ads-offer-support-tell-commissioner-big-ten-step-up
Cryin Ryan must have got to the MSU AD.
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https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38804628/ads-offer-support-tell-commissioner-big-ten-step-up
Cryin Ryan must have got to the MSU AD.
LOL. Pete Thamel is such a crying pussy.
Notice....more second and third hand unnamed anonymous sources. Probably the same ones that said Jeem's contract offer was pulled...
Oh and the MSU AD should be more worried about finding a new football coach that won't jerk off over the phone and sexually harass a rape victim/advocate. That should probably be primary focus #1......#2 should be finding new guys to do the in-game video board trivia....
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this part is f**cking comical by the way...
Haller worried about players potentially getting hurt because Michigan players, in theory, knew where they'd be going on plays.
He also referenced last year, when he said the Big Ten forced Michigan State to suspend numerous players after the tunnel incident in Ann Arbor before the league finished investigating the incident. He pointed out that it was hypocritical that this year, with Michigan under investigation, the league is now waiting for an investigation to unfold.
Lmfao.
Yeah, they are going to get hurt because the other team knows what plays you're going to run! Uhhh....no. Newsflash....most teams know most of the other teams plays already.....signs or no signs. It's the EXECUTION of the play-call that matters. IE...having the better players than the other team. Michigan State's players suck. For the most part. Michigan's are pretty good...
And the last underlined part....holy shit. Yeah, it's hypocritical to suspend numerous players WHO BROKE CRIMINAL LAWS and physically assaulted people on camera vs a situation that involves no you know, actual laws but stupid NCAA bylaws on advanced scouting. Yeah, cause those are like THE SAME FCKING THING. LMFAO.
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The true fear is with this much attention, if Michigan still runs the table, there’s no excuses left.
Last season felonies were ignored, both UZI and Harbaugh with the aid of Eli Savit not only cheated/lied they in fact skirted a federal law. When he got on that plane that day instead of a holding cell another law was broken.And NOTHING was done to Harbaugh or Smith,no missed games or wins removed for knowingly playing a guy with a felony gun charge.How the hell is a part time law professor at Michigan and full time Prosecutor for the city of AA NOT in conflict with prosecuting a Wolverine player? Shit you trade memorabelia for tat in C-Bus,you get fired and wins removed. Go to Michigan and you get a government-sponsored departure or variance means that the prosecution and defendant agreed on a sentence, likely as part of a plea deal
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Mo Clarett onto something imo....Jeem out-spoken for the portal, NIL, and players getting revenue share from NCAA tv contracts....all things NCAA is against- first two they got dragged kicking and screaming over....and last one...they'll probably fight to the death before they give up TV money and actually you know, pay the players a share of the money that you know, they actually generate.
https://twitter.com/ReeseClarett13/status/1720168133535613393?s=20
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https://twitter.com/ReeseClarett13/status/1720170035044388991?s=20
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https://twitter.com/ReeseClarett13/status/1720170035044388991?s=20
There’s just no way a guy like this could know than anyone on this board about this topic. How could he possibly be qualified to have an opinion that’s more knowledgeable than those of us sitting behind screens?
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https://twitter.com/BracketNky/status/1720254399908335901?s=20
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Lmfao.
Yeah, they are going to get hurt because the other team knows what plays you're going to run! Uhhh....no. Newsflash....most teams know most of the other teams plays already.....signs or no signs. It's the EXECUTION of the play-call that matters. IE...having the better players than the other team. Michigan State's players suck. For the most part. Michigan's are pretty good...
And the last underlined part....holy shit. Yeah, it's hypocritical to suspend numerous players WHO BROKE CRIMINAL LAWS and physically assaulted people on camera vs a situation that involves no you know, actual laws but stupid NCAA bylaws on advanced scouting. Yeah, cause those are like THE SAME FCKING THING. LMFAO.
Do you have anymore of those drugs?MSU got into fight at Michigan like OSU/PSU before them coincidence evidently,non of those so called assaults ended up with an M player even getting treatment and both attended the next pratice you bent freak.Your boy booger played that up all the while knowing he covered up UZI Smith's speeding with a Glock and 3 clips w/65 slugs. Look what the Virginia player did with his firearm just one month later,unfortunately a very real possibility but gun/driving offense that gets ignored,put off and pleaded down in AA.
Both those M players were instructed to stay out of the tunnel until the opponents had entered their assigned Locker room. Did they ignore this or did M coaches not make that clear?What could have went wrong if everyone else is so misunderstood? That 1st snow flake was caught on cell phone cameras repeatedly M-Fing Spartans that some how Michigan tunnel cameras miraculously didn;t hear or see,after a major brawl just minutes earlier - he went looking for trouble and got his attitude adjustment
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There’s just no way a guy like this could know than anyone on this board about this topic. How could he possibly be qualified to have an opinion that’s more knowledgeable than those of us sitting behind screens?
Just the other day Mdot was dismissing his take as BS so there's that
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Just the other day Mdot was dismissing his take as BS so there's that
I was not dismissing anything.....more like making fun of him for not knowing what a ponzi scheme was...
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Do you have anymore of those drugs?MSU got into fight at Michigan like OSU/PSU before them coincidence evidently,non of those so called assaults ended up with an M player even getting treatment and both attended the next pratice you bent freak.Your boy booger played that up all the while knowing he covered up UZI Smith's speeding with a Glock and 3 clips w/65 slugs. Look what the Virginia player did with his firearm just one month later,unfortunately a very real possibility but gun/driving offense that gets ignored,put off and pleaded down in AA.
Both those M players were instructed to stay out of the tunnel until the opponents had entered their assigned Locker room. Did they ignore this or did M coaches not make that clear?What could have went wrong if everyone else is so misunderstood? That 1st snow flake was caught on cell phone cameras repeatedly M-Fing Spartans that some how Michigan tunnel cameras miraculously didn;t hear or see,after a major brawl just minutes earlier - he went looking for trouble and got his attitude adjustment
you off the sauce?
in what world is it legal to punch the fck out of someone and hit them over the head with a football helmet?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwHfiB0DV5c&t=116s
(https://y.yarn.co/8fef2edb-386f-47b3-b064-31fa92d01174_text.gif)
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LOL. Pete Thamel is such a crying pussy.
Notice....more second and third hand unnamed anonymous sources. Probably the same ones that said Jeem's contract offer was pulled...
Oh and the MSU AD should be more worried about finding a new football coach that won't jerk off over the phone and sexually harass a rape victim/advocate. That should probably be primary focus #1......#2 should be finding new guys to do the in-game video board trivia....
Checking on Mazi Smith. Hypocritical up and down
And no, the overwhelming number of coaches have said this is a massive advantage. Vegas said it's worth 10-20 points per game
.
I mean just look at Michigan before and after the start of 2021 to see what it's worth
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(https://y.yarn.co/8fef2edb-386f-47b3-b064-31fa92d01174_text.gif)
:043: that doesn't show how it started slappie your boy going up to MSU door practically - what was he doing there?It was clear that the opponent was to be left unhindered in the Tunnel FFS.shows a couple of punches ,why was a michigan player there provoking him.Michigan made this clear before the games - ya know because of their previous history.And Where was anyone carried out you novelist? Ya turrible,this 3 weeks after UZI's gun toting but that was swept under the rug. And WTF was all this M Security doing,look at them like pidgeons picking at popcorn watching pay for view.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/2022/10/30/michigan-state-spartans-wolverines-players-get-into-postgame-scuffle-in-michigan-stadium-tunnel/69603281007/
What was he doing there?raising money for the boosters?
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Why is Harbaugh calling out "the NCAA's massive revenue" with respect to football?
The NCAA gets almost nothing from football. This has been true since Georgia and OU sued the NCAA in 1984.
The "massive revenue" in football is flowing to the conferences, and the schools. If you want the football players to get a piece of that, you need to start MUCH closer to home.
Basketball is another story, the NCAA made about a billion dollars from it last year.
But for football, the money is all going directly to the conferences, and the schools.
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former 247Sports employee, says that all this information on Stallions that leaked from the 3rd party investigator (Ryan Day's brother?) was obtained illegally. Don't know how plugged in he is or who he's talking to. Not sure he's correct, but if he is- stolen property or computer hacking the only thing I can come up with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn5hGU_SfFk
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https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38805972/purdue-coach-ryan-walters-evidence-michigan-scouting
How could he know more than those on this board? Another Cryin Ryan.
This is where it gets tough because he says “it happened, we have proof. We have video, and we have receipts.”
Now they have to huddle and or try to change their signals this late in the season.
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https://twitter.com/DubJellison/status/1720214077123768507?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1720214077123768507%7Ctwgr%5E053e15e20c12049bca15b11999d9c041c96a808e%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.elevenwarriors.com%2Fskull-sessions%2F2023%2F11%2F142432%2Fskull-session-ohio-state-is-loaded-with-talent-urban-meyer-is-skeptical-about-reports-for-the-michigan-scandal-and-jett
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Checking on Mazi Smith. Hypocritical up and down
And no, the overwhelming number of coaches have said this is a massive advantage. Vegas said it's worth 10-20 points per game
.
I mean just look at Michigan before and after the start of 2021 to see what it's worth
What the actual f? Mazi Smith didn't ASSAULT someone. He was driving around in his car with a gun. A gun that he legally owned. He had taken his CPL class but had not received his concealed license. He had no previous criminal record and got his concealed license by the time he went to trial- which is probably why they offered him a plea deal and the charge got plead down to nothing. Too bad he lives in such a dogshit god awful piece of hot-garbage state like Michigan, because if he was in Florida he would've been A-OK, no charge at all. But yeah, that's totally the same thing as BEATING the actual fck out of someone and assaulting them with a football helmet. Totally the same thing.
10-20 points per game? Link please. GTFO. Everyone steals signs. Literally everyone. Maybe not to the degree of this Connor Stallions fellow, but that is an absolute joke to say it's worth 20 points a game.
You want to know why Michigan got better in 2021? Might have to do with not having Joe Milton as the QB anymore. You know- a guy who absolutely sucks. Yeah let's totally also forget about Aidan Hutchinson being healthy and fully developed as a SR and David Ojabo breaking out as a RS Soph first time starter. You know- two guys that were 1st rd pick caliber at EDGE. Hutchinson was only the #2 pick in the draft and Ojabo would've been a top 15 pick if he didn't tear his achilles 4 weeks before the NFL draft at his pro day. STILL went early 2nd rd after that injury. Having two book-end EDGE 1st rd picks....KINDA HELPS a team win- especially in college- considering 95+% of CFB teams don't have one EDGE rusher worthy of a 1st rd pick in an upcoming draft- let alone two. Let's also forget about Sherrone Moore being hired as the OL coach either in 2021- you know- a guy that is probably right now today at worst a top 3 OL coach in all of CFB. Let's also completely forget about Blake Corum breaking out as a true soph and rushing for 1,000 yards and 11 TD's. Let's also completely forget about Jeem firing Don Brown and hiring an NFL DC from the Ravens (who is back in the NFL kicking ass as a DC for the Ravens).
GTFO.
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https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38805972/purdue-coach-ryan-walters-evidence-michigan-scouting
How could he know more than those on this board? Another Cryin Ryan.
This is where it gets tough because he says “it happened, we have proof. We have video, and we have receipts.”
Now they have to huddle and or try to change their signals this late in the season.
:043:
dude is about get beat by 50+....looking for built-in excuse for the complete and total ass-whooping this flaccid penis is about to get
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https://www.si.com/college/2023/11/03/big-ten-schools-pressuring-commissioner-michigan-sign-stealing-controversy
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https://www.si.com/college/2023/11/03/big-ten-schools-pressuring-commissioner-michigan-sign-stealing-controversy
Did you not learn a lesson about the media after covid?
https://twitter.com/eclipsethis2003/status/1654192060147150851
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2024 Michigan Football Schedule
| Aug. 31 | Fresno State |
| Sept. 7 | Texas |
| Sept. 14 | Arkansas State |
| Sept. 21 | USC |
| Sept. 28 | Minnesota |
| Oct. 5 | at Washington |
| Oct. 12 | Open |
| Oct. 19 | at Illinois |
| Oct. 26 | Michigan State |
| Nov. 2 | Oregon |
| Nov. 9 | at Indiana |
| Nov. 16 | Open |
| Nov. 23 | Northwestern |
| Nov. 30 | at Ohio State |
https://mgoblue.com/news/2023/11/2/michigan-and-big-ten-announce-2024-football-schedule (https://mgoblue.com/news/2023/11/2/michigan-and-big-ten-announce-2024-football-schedule)
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Did you not learn a lesson about the media after covid?
I didn't find that episode to be somehow unusual or unexpected ot meaningful.
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=731&v=rBl2KIOS9ds&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.elevenwarriors.com%2F&source_ve_path=MzY4NDIsMzY4NDIsMjM4NTE&feature=emb_title
Sticks up for Michigan on some things. Hits them on some. But in the end- his take on what will happen is likely spot on. ( not much )
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Did you not learn a lesson about the media after covid?
https://twitter.com/eclipsethis2003/status/1654192060147150851
Weird take. Not relatable at all.
unless your saying this meeting never took place- in which case I would politely say your head is buried in the sand.
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/michigan-football-losing-the-perception-battle-as-fury-over-sign-stealing-scandal-mounts/ar-AA1jk3ol
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Weird take. Not relatable at all.
unless your saying this meeting never took place- in which case I would politely say your head is buried in the sand.
You’re right. Not relatable at all that you’re posting articles from 10 different media sources and failure to realize that the media has parent companies that control most of them and can control a narrative by making it look like it’s coming from multiple sources when it’s actually coming from a source at the top, controlling it.
yep.. I’m the one with my head in the sand and the joe Rogan content is completely not relatable to that reality.
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“ coming from a source, at the top who is controlling it”??
Who would that be?
Several things I have posted acknowledge that money is the driving factor in how this thing lands.
But I just posted a Detroit Free Press article that OPINES About the perception battle. Who else is Opining on that. Who is at the top controlling the Detroit Free Press?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn5hGU_SfFk
Michigan vs everybody??? this is how opponents are treated by the hosts in AA
Look at M players after the on field fight still taunting MSU entering the Tunnel
https://twitter.com/PlayboiSparty/status/1586590935546224640?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1586590935546224640%7Ctwgr%5E92eb73fb0fa16b48
Penn St?
https://twitter.com/i/status/1581339630225395713
James Franklin Predicted the Michigan-Michigan State Incident
The Penn State coach said 'something bad is going to happen' unless the Big Ten regulates Michigan Stadium tunnel access.
Here's booger denying there's a problem like calling the opposing coach a ringleader,bigger fish to fry and calls Franklin's point a sophmoric ploy.Yet one week later same thing erupts and of course Booger blaming Sparty like he did with PSU/tOSU - Pure Michigan
https://youtu.be/gwqKXi0gSlo
Ohio St?
https://twitter.com/i/status/1464667836245327892
(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.kinja-img.com%2Fgawker-media%2Fimage%2Fupload%2Fs--vyyWRkow--%2F1401537538732057519.gif&hash=7124403df0a87271b6a5b3e9974a0b3e)
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(https://i.imgur.com/hX1MSDZ.jpg)
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:043:
dude is about get beat by 50+....looking for built-in excuse for the complete and total ass-whooping this flaccid penis is about to get
Are you 12?
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Temp 430
Just control your thugs and your anti-semite RB that's all,Thanx
And don't you have a rally to attend with Donovan?
And BO knew but you know that
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This is well done
https://x.com/_willcompton/status/1720426175959351407?s=20
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https://www.cleveland.com/osu/2023/10/did-ohio-state-footballs-dominance-under-urban-meyer-spawn-jim-harbaughs-sign-stealing-scandal-at-michigan-jimmy-watkins.html
Who is the real softie? 😂😂
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This is well done
https://x.com/_willcompton/status/1720426175959351407?s=20
I had seen that. They knew the exact play call. A screen pass. They are just that good.
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It doesn't load now what was it?
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It doesn't load now what was it?
It's a video of 2021 against Nebraska where Nebby calls a screen and the entire Michigan defense is prepared for a screen.
Watching old highlights of
@aidanhutch97 (https://twitter.com/aidanhutch97)
against Nebraska
What a pre-snap read here by him & the entire Michigan defense
Screen is a good call against man coverage but doesn’t work when the defense is this smart
Harbaugh develops football IQ in Michigan
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Ohio St?
https://twitter.com/i/status/1464667836245327892
(https://i.imgur.com/RXi7fgj.jpg)
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https://twitter.com/On3sports/status/1720486503904636999?s=20
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https://twitter.com/On3sports/status/1720486503904636999?s=20
😂😂. They are more concerned about who told on them than they are at the alleged, egregious misconduct.
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Yeah, I don't really get how that changes anything.
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Yeah, I don't really get how that changes anything.
It doesn’t. You have the coaches and ADs angry about the perceived in- game cheating.
They could care less about how it got exposed. But it does give UM fans more excuses and deflection opportunities- the mental gymnastics they are exercising to make themselves feel better, is incredible.
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It doesn’t. You have the coaches and ADs angry about the perceived in- game cheating.
They could care less about how it got exposed. But it does give UM fans more excuses and deflection opportunities- the mental gymnastics they are exercising to make themselves feel better, is incredible.
https://www.espn.com/espn/page2/story?sportCat=ncf&page=hruby/110107_oregon_ducks_signs
sign stealing was started by Ohio state. Mental gymnastics and deflection time from your perfect fans and program
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Somethings rotten in the State of Ohio
https://www.on3.com/teams/michigan-wolverines/news/michigan-media-gathering-evidence-on-private-investigators-and-their-links-to-osu-more-on-jim-harbaugh-extension/ (https://www.on3.com/teams/michigan-wolverines/news/michigan-media-gathering-evidence-on-private-investigators-and-their-links-to-osu-more-on-jim-harbaugh-extension/)
Well, if I was a Buckeye fan, I'd relax and be confident that 3rd Base Day was smart enough not to pay for it with OSU funds. If not, I hope they roll this whole thing up and shove it up Day's ass.
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https://www.espn.com/espn/page2/story?sportCat=ncf&page=hruby/110107_oregon_ducks_signs
sign stealing was started by Ohio state. Mental gymnastics and deflection time from your perfect fans and program
Nice play in words. And nice try.
Sign stealing of your opponent- during the game- is not illegal. The reason is- it is highly ineffective. Everyone does it. Many coaches acknowledge that.
It’s highly ineffective because you first have figure out who is actually sending in the real signal. And then you have to try to decode the signal against the play that was ran. But there is no time to do it because your opponent is running the next signal and the next play.
NOW FOR THE OBVIOUS PART THAT EVERYONE BESIDES MICHIGAN SLAPPIES UNDERSTANDS AND ACKNOWLEDGES:
WHAT MICHIGAN IS ACCUSED OF IS ENTIRELY ILLEGAL AND NOT BEING DONE BY EVERYONE-AND THAT IS GOING TO FUTURE OPPONENTS GAMES, RECORDING THEIR SIGNS AND THE PLAYS THEY RAN. FULL STOP. THIS IS WHAT THE PUBLICIZED EVIDENCE LOOKS LIKE MICHIGAN DID. IT IS ILLEGAL FOR OBVIOUS REASONS- YOU CAN EASILY LOOK AT THE SIGNALS AND PLAYS OVER AND OVER BY REWINDING, AND EASILY FIGURE OUT BOTH WHAT THE SIGNALS MEAN EXACTLY, AND WHICH SIGNALLER IS THE HOT READ. IN EFFECT, YOU WOULD KNOW VIRTUALLY EVERY PLAY THE OPPONENT CALLED ON BOTH OFFENSE AND DEFENSE. GAME OVER.
if, if, if,….Michigan did this ( and just what has been shared in video so far makes it look pretty damn likely) then they had a competitive advantage that would be impossible to overcome. And it would be the biggest sports cheating scandal of modern times. And it would be despicable.
But keep the gymnastics coming.
- it’s OHio States fault
- everyone does it
-it didn’t matter. No advantage gained
- it’s a witch hunt
- it wasn’t against the rules- loophole
- we should leave the Big
- we should sue everyone
- anyone who speaks against us is a douche
on and on. If this happened- the integrity of every game it happened in- is gone.
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Darn it. I didn’t shut my caps lock. It’s probably why you didn’t understand my post.
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Somethings rotten in the State of Ohio
https://www.on3.com/teams/michigan-wolverines/news/michigan-media-gathering-evidence-on-private-investigators-and-their-links-to-osu-more-on-jim-harbaugh-extension/ (https://www.on3.com/teams/michigan-wolverines/news/michigan-media-gathering-evidence-on-private-investigators-and-their-links-to-osu-more-on-jim-harbaugh-extension/)
Well, if I was a Buckeye fan, I'd relax and be confident that 3rd Base Day was smart enough not to pay for it with OSU funds. If not, I hope they roll this whole thing up and shove it up Day's ass.
Oh my. Shocking. Michigan slappies intensely focused on how they got caught, not what they did wrong And who are they trying to blame. Arch rival. Stop the presses
Shocking! 😂😂😂😂. Look over there!!!
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Oh my. Shocking. Michigan slappies intensely focused on how they got caught, not what they did wrong And who are they trying to blame. Arch rival. Stop the presses
Shocking! 😂😂😂😂. Look over there!!!
Sounds like you are deflecting from people tied to Ohio state possibly breaking rules.
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Sounds like you are deflecting from people tied to Ohio state possibly breaking rules.
I think deflecting a deflection is technically reflecting but I could be wrong.
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I think deflecting a deflection is technically reflecting but I could be wrong.
Lol. Now that was a funny post.
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(https://i.imgur.com/y3sjy4r.png)
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😂
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Hmmm
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Sounds like you are deflecting from people tied to Ohio state possibly breaking rules.
What? I missed the part where anyone besides Michigan broke any rules???
it’s like the husband telling the divorce judge “ but your honor, my wife hired the P.I. That caught me in bed with the other woman- you can’t use that against me”
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I’m sure the NCAA and Big Ten would be fine with the Buckeyes assuming the investigation and enforcement roll for the league.
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I’m sure the NCAA and Big Ten would be fine with the Buckeyes assuming the investigation and enforcement roll for the league.
It must be exhausting trying to portray yourself ( team) as the victim.
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It must be exhausting trying to portray yourself ( team) as the victim.
By no means doing that. Michigan in-person scouting should be thoroughly investigated and if it happened, Michigan should be penalized for breaking the silly rule. If there’s any evidence of Ohio State or buckeye boosters hiring PI firms to investigate other Big Ten teams, that should be thoroughly investigated as well. Most entertaining
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By no means doing that. Michigan in-person scouting should be thoroughly investigated and if it happened, Michigan should be penalized for breaking the silly rule. If there’s any evidence of Ohio State or buckeye boosters hiring PI firms to investigate other Big Ten teams, that should be thoroughly investigated as well. Most entertaining
Ok. That’s all fair. Especially the entertaining part
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I’m sure the NCAA and Big Ten would be fine with the Buckeyes assuming the investigation and enforcement roll for the league.
Well we'd have to start with UZI Smith and the AA Prosecutor who teaches law at UM - no conflict of interest there.Again for your edification
There were posters even a billboard around AA from prosecutor Eli Savit "If you are driving with a gun illegally, you will go to jail. I am adamant about strict gun control policy. I will put you in prison". What it should of added "unless of course if you play football for Michigan"
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fimg.buzzfeed.com%2Fbuzzfeed-static%2Fstatic%2Fenhanced%2Fwebdr05%2F2013%2F7%2F21%2F18%2Fanigif_enhanced-buzz-14837-1374446988-6.gif&f=1&nofb=1)
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Booster check cleared
https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/1720582044294762849?s=20
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Same On3 editor who broke the story this afternoon about Day's involvement
(https://i.imgur.com/8RqrRjU.png)
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Michigan has fired football analyst Connor Stalions amid an NCAA investigation into an alleged sign-stealing operation by the Wolverines, sources confirmed to ESPN.
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“I think you sit there and just feel really bad for the players on both sides, because this is really our last chance to teach young people how to go out there and compete and overcome adversity and go through ups and down and highs and lows,” Matt Rhule said. “And you just hope when you do this that no side ever has an advantage over the other that’s not gained and earned appropriately.”
Rhule added that, “I can’t comment on the specifics of this [Michigan case], because I don’t know.”
Still, he made it clear that he sees it as a big problem if Michigan did what it has been accused of doing.
“As we tell parents, ‘We’re going to teach them how to be young men.’ I think the first thing we teach them is integrity and honesty. But if I ever feel like my guys have been shorted, obviously I’m here to fight for them,” Rhule said. “That would certainly be heartbreaking and disappointing to me, as someone who loves college football. It’s one thing when it’s recruiting, but when we mess with the 60 minutes of the game, that’s really, really, really impacted.”
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You can't spell Rhule without Rule
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Interest that halftime show I am watching says he resigned.
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Michigan has fired football analyst Connor Stalions amid an NCAA investigation into an alleged sign-stealing operation by the Wolverines, sources confirmed to ESPN.
He resigned. He was not fired.
see why it’s important to not think “sources” know exactly all the details.
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Read HBs signature
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that was a copy & paste from ESPN
I see the resignation as the same thing as a firing
admission of guilt
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Rumors that Big Ten’s Petitti wanted Michigan to suspend Coach Harbaugh for two games today and Michigan President Ono refused.
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Rumors that Big Ten’s Petitti wanted Michigan to suspend Coach Harbaugh for two games today and Michigan President Ono refused.
now that is a President...homie should just continue to tell the B1G/NCAA to fk right off and then extend Jeem ASAP to give them all the middle finger.
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perhaps President Ono is in on the dirty deed
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Same On3 editor who broke the story this afternoon about Day's involvement
(https://i.imgur.com/8RqrRjU.png)
Balas used to be at Rivals before he got fired. Guy is complete ass. I think he legitimately just makes things up and has no sources.
John U Bacon and Sam Webb are pretty much the only guys that cover Michigan that actually have any plugs into the AD/program/school. Anyone else is just making sh*t up. Including Balas, who has been proven time and time again a liar and fraud.
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perhaps President Ono is in on the dirty deed
yeah, there's a zero percent chance of that lol. less than zero.
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Booster check cleared
https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/1720582044294762849?s=20
cool thing about the NCAA, they actually don't have any power to make anyone do anything. deny til you die, refuse to co-operate, block them at every turn, lawyer up to the max, tell them to fk right off at every turn, play hardball with them and you're good.
Only time they can ever do crap is when a program gets caught in the cross-hairs of a FED investigation. That's what popped Ohio State with TatGate and Michigan's basketball with Ed Martin.
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my hero zero!
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would be pretty hilarious if Dave Portnoy hired him and Barstool paid for tickets to every single Ohio State game in perpetuity and had Stallions record the sidelines from the stands and upload all the video to Twitter for free for the world to see.
Ryan Day's head would probably explode....
https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1720581462565806208?s=20
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pretty much...scurrrred
https://twitter.com/FoxSportsRadio/status/1720512415987855765?s=20
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https://twitter.com/CSayf23/status/1720497958502764597?s=20
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https://twitter.com/TheRealCoach_JB/status/1719548841962475659?s=20
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I am buying this shirt asap....
gold jerry, gold.
https://twitter.com/cosasdevida_13/status/1719818729863643306?s=20
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Stalions released a statement through his attorney that Bruce Feldman quoted on his X account. I can’t get back to it or I’d post it here. He says no other coach or staff knew about it.
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it?
cheating??
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it?
cheating??
If I remember correctly he used a phrase like “advance scouting.” All of Twitter seems to be unreachable from my location.
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https://x.com/BruceFeldmanCFB/status/1720627290323685471?s=20
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Connor Stalions and his attorney have provided statements to The Athletic. <a href="https://t.co/jVsOruIILV">https://t.co/jVsOruIILV</a> <a href="https://t.co/OKXD1LzscJ">pic.twitter.com/OKXD1LzscJ</a></p>— Bruce Feldman (@BruceFeldmanCFB) <a href="https://twitter.com/BruceFeldmanCFB/status/1720627290323685471?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 4, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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hah!
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If I remember correctly he used a phrase like “advance scouting.” All of Twitter seems to be unreachable from my location.
He says no other coach or staff knew about it. advance scouting
and advance scouting = cheating
so, he as a staffer admits to cheating
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Lawyer threw the word allegations in there so no admission of anything.
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Frankly, I'm shocked.
In the poll that I created I projected that I thought Harbaugh would be gone before the Purdue game.
I don't like Michigan but I respected them enough as an institution that I thought they would take a stand for the integrity of the game.
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He says no other coach or staff knew about it. advance scouting
and advance scouting = cheating
so, he as a staffer admits to cheating
OK, then why'd he do it? He was just gathering data no one would ever use?
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Check cleared
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Check cleared
Doubt it. Homeboy comes from money and is a super loser nutjob whackjob when it comes to Michigan football. He wrote a 600 page manifesto about Michigan football for Christ sake.
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Frankly, I'm shocked.
I don't like Michigan but I respected them enough as an institution that I thought they would take a stand for the integrity of the game.
I'm not shocked.
Michigan and the Big Ten conference like to portray themselves as better than others, but in the end they're no better than the SEC or Big 12
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Frankly, I'm shocked.
In the poll that I created I projected that I thought Harbaugh would be gone before the Purdue game.
I don't like Michigan but I respected them enough as an institution that I thought they would take a stand for the integrity of the game.
lol, no.
This is who they are, all the way down to their rotten core.
(https://www.crossingbroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/juwan-howard.jpg)
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Frankly, I'm shocked.
In the poll that I created I projected that I thought Harbaugh would be gone before the Purdue game.
I don't like Michigan but I respected them enough as an institution that I thought they would take a stand for the integrity of the game.
:043:
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I'm not shocked.
Michigan and the Big Ten conference like to portray themselves as better than others, but in the end they're no better than the SEC or Big 12
winner winner, chicken dinner.
it's all about the money. dolla dolla billz y'all.
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lol, no.
This is who they are, all the way down to their rotten core.
(https://www.crossingbroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/juwan-howard.jpg)
yeah and Ohio State are just saints. saints I tell ya.
Juwan Howard should've already been fired. But not because he's a thuggish dooshbag. Because he's a shitty basketball coach.
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Life's too short to waste any brain power on someone such as yourself.
:043:
this guy....as charmin soft as his football coach. Man all I gotta say is Cryin' Ryan better beat Jeem this year or else the BuckNutjobs are going to be at his doorstep with pitchforks.
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My bad, I hadn't had my coffee yet. I thought you were Super Mario. :098:
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I advise that we let this whole thing play out. We all know the media generally sucks and all they care about is clicks.
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Frankly, I'm shocked.
In the poll that I created I projected that I thought Harbaugh would be gone before the Purdue game.
I don't like Michigan but I respected them enough as an institution that I thought they would take a stand for the integrity of the game.
Everything you know about this up to yesterday PM was from anonymous leaks. Michigan is right to resist this BS. There’s an official process that doesn’t include a lynch mob. Glad Michigan’s trustees, president, and AD are all supporting Coach Harbaugh.
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yeah and Ohio State are just saints. saints I tell ya.
Juwan Howard should've already been fired. But not because he's a thuggish dooshbag. Because he's a shitty basketball coach.
Really just stop your arguments are weaker than Harbaughs integrity. Ohio State loses a coach and vacates wins for tatoos,your coach hides a felony gun charge for 2 months,then said offender boards a domestic flight 3 hrs after the fact. JH also allowed & probably provokes 3 fights with opponents in Ms tunnel whose responsibility it is to Police.Remember Booger lecturing "what a tangled web we weave when we choose to decieve" - LMAO.Scum Bag UofM law professor and AA Prosecutor Eli Savit laugh it off & pleads it down and NOTHING.From the BIG/NCAA & Prosecutor's Office - Ms program should have swung for that
The only difference between M and the Hurrigangstas is Miami has the Hardware
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yes, but yesterday things got real
Stallions gone and offering lawyer fabricated statements
that's real smoke
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all I know is I'm going to enjoy the F out of this season because next year Michigan is gonna suck.
Jeem was already beefing with his AD Warde Manuel and sick of the NCAA- all this crap is gonna do is just push him to the NFL. I'd say it's 99.99% he just leaves after this year and goes to the NFL.
They are about to lose a ton of players to the NFL draft. JJ McCarthy is gone, and is probably going 1st rd. He'll be the first 1st rd QB taken from Michigan since...1987. Which incidentally, was his coach Jeem. JJ is easily the best QB Michigan has had in 20+ years and not sure they have anyone remotely close to him to replace him. They are going to lose both their RBs- who are also incidentally BOTH the best RB's they've had in like 20 years. And they are going to lose a lot of linemen on offense and defense, both their top WRs in Roman Wilson and Cornelius Johnson. They are just going to lose a ton of players, the head coach, and the schedule is insane in 2024.
And after they lose probably 15+ players to the NFL draft, their head coach to the NFL, and play the toughest schedule by far in America in 2024 you'll still have a bunch of morons still go...DeRp...dErP...sEe...iT...wAs...dUh sIgNzzzz....DeRp....
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Stalions being fired/resigned is going to clam up and no one can make him talk. You’ll have to wait for his book.
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My bad, I hadn't had my coffee yet. I thought you were Super Mario. :098:
Another classy comment.
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this guy....as charmin soft as his football coach. Man all I gotta say is Cryin' Ryan better beat Jeem this year or else the BuckNutjobs are going to be at his doorstep with pitchforks.
Well Day has had 5 yrs but had they played in 2020 Booger would have been shown the door IMO. But he's proven invaluable at QBs and WRs but hasn't been hitting the portal well enough for the trenches
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“I think you sit there and just feel really bad for the players on both sides, because this is really our last chance to teach young people how to go out there and compete and overcome adversity and go through ups and down and highs and lows,” Matt Rhule said. “And you just hope when you do this that no side ever has an advantage over the other that’s not gained and earned appropriately.”
Rhule added that, “I can’t comment on the specifics of this [Michigan case], because I don’t know.”
Still, he made it clear that he sees it as a big problem if Michigan did what it has been accused of doing.
“As we tell parents, ‘We’re going to teach them how to be young men.’ I think the first thing we teach them is integrity and honesty. But if I ever feel like my guys have been shorted, obviously I’m here to fight for them,” Rhule said. “That would certainly be heartbreaking and disappointing to me, as someone who loves college football. It’s one thing when it’s recruiting, but when we mess with the 60 minutes of the game, that’s really, really, really impacted.”
Nebraska has a real coach and person leading them. they will be closer to what their fans want then ever with Mr. Frost. "Dear Ol Nebraska U"
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We got football today!!
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Stalions being fired/resigned is going to clam up and no one can make him talk. You’ll have to wait for his book.
or on the witness stand taking the 5th
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Well Day has had 5 yrs but had they played in 2020 Booger would have been shown the door IMO. But he's proven invaluable at QBs and WRs but hasn't been hitting the portal well enough for the trenches
Ohio State has probably the craziest fan base in ‘Merica outside of SEC country. And even then they are in that crazy SEC territory.
If Ryan loses 3 in a row to Jeem- he’s coaching for his job vs Michigan in ‘24.
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I actually don’t blame the brass at UM for pushing back on the BIG - if Michigan Insiders are accurate in saying the Big and the other ADs want Harbaugh’s head. They are at best, premature and at worst, over thinking it. Either way, they are barking up the wrong tree.
There has not been a single suggestion or “ leak” that suggests Harbaugh was involved, let alone any real evidence.
The degree to which the coaches were involved- if at all- truly deserves a full investigation- however long that takes. You simply can’t personally punish coaches if you don’t have absolute facts to justify it.
I am confident that this “ overwhelming evidence” ( again, quoting Michigan insiders, not media) that this was a wide ranging, sophisticated sign stealing/ advance scouting operation still does not implicate the Head coach- because if it did, there is no way the UM brass could stand behind him.
Now one might say- if he didn’t know, he should have. A credible question- but again, that is pure speculation.
Did CS buy these tickets to 35 games at 17 different stadiums over the last 2.5 seasons, and either hire or attend in person to film the future opponent’s signs? That is the more urgent question due to its impact on the current season.
I have yet to hear anyone deny that. I think there is clear and obvious evidence of that-that is indisputable. It is my belief that the evidence of this was collected by the NCAA, and now shared with the Big. Even Michigan fans are elated that CS won’t “ sing like a canary”. Because they know he could potentially implicate coaches in the scheme. There is no more investigating needed to answer this part of it. You have coaches and ADs all over the place that are saying publicly they have seen the receipts and the video. You have people admitting they were paid to record signals of Michigan opponents.
So that leaves the question of what if anything can be done about it.
Michigan fans can argue all they want that this did not provide an advantage during games. But that has and will continue to fall on deaf ears The coaches at the other schools- and just common sense- tells you the answer.
So if this advance scouting and signal stealing provided a competitive advantage on even one signal play- the game results are tainted.
It is my opinion that all of UMs wins in 21, 22 and up to MSU this year, will eventually be vacated. There really isn’t much choice.
I know most Um fans don’t give a rip about that. They just want finish out this season. I am highly confident they will get there wish.
The other thing that might come up in the bigger investigation by the feckless NCAA, is potential Loss of Institutional Control.
Michigan has recently parted ways with 4 football staff members for:
-computer crimes
-racist comments
-pedophile activity ( alleged)
- advance scouting/ signal stealing.
I think we are in for a long ride. Then we can wait for the Netflix Documentary to be released and can argue about all of this- all over again
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I actually don’t blame the brass at UM for pushing back on the BIG - if Michigan Insiders are accurate in saying the Big and the other ADs want Harbaugh’s head. They are at best, premature and at worst, over thinking it. Either way, they are barking up the wrong tree.
There has not been a single suggestion or “ leak” that suggests Harbaugh was involved, let alone any real evidence.
The degree to which the coaches were involved- if at all- truly deserves a full investigation- however long that takes. You simply can’t personally punish coaches if you don’t have absolute facts to justify it.
I am confident that this “ overwhelming evidence” ( again, quoting Michigan insiders, not media) that this was a wide ranging, sophisticated sign stealing/ advance scouting operation still does not implicate the Head coach- because if it did, there is no way the UM brass could stand behind him.
Now one might say- if he didn’t know, he should have. A credible question- but again, that is pure speculation.
Did CS buy these tickets to 35 games at 17 different stadiums over the last 2.5 seasons, and either hire or attend in person to film the future opponent’s signs? That is the more urgent question due to its impact on the current season.
I have yet to hear anyone deny that. I think there is clear and obvious evidence of that-that is indisputable. It is my belief that the evidence of this was collected by the NCAA, and now shared with the Big. Even Michigan fans are elated that CS won’t “ sing like a canary”. Because they know he could potentially implicate coaches in the scheme. There is no more investigating needed to answer this part of it. You have coaches and ADs all over the place that are saying publicly they have seen the receipts and the video. You have people admitting they were paid to record signals of Michigan opponents.
So that leaves the question of what if anything can be done about it.
Michigan fans can argue all they want that this did not provide an advantage during games. But that has and will continue to fall on deaf ears The coaches at the other schools- and just common sense- tells you the answer.
So if this advance scouting and signal stealing provided a competitive advantage on even one signal play- the game results are tainted.
It is my opinion that all of UMs wins in 21, 22 and up to MSU this year, will eventually be vacated. There really isn’t much choice.
I know most Um fans don’t give a rip about that. They just want finish out this season. I am highly confident they will get there wish.
The other thing that might come up in the bigger investigation by the feckless NCAA, is potential Loss of Institutional Control.
Michigan has recently parted ways with 4 football staff members for:
-computer crimes
-racist comments
-pedophile activity ( alleged)
- advance scouting/ signal stealing.
I think we are in for a long ride. Then we can wait for the Netflix Documentary to be released and can argue about all of this- all over again
if the Netflix doc on Urbz and Florida is any indication, Netflix will just give Jeem full editorial control in order to get him involved in it and it’ll be nothing but a BS puff piece.
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Ohio State has probably the craziest fan base in ‘Merica outside of SEC country. And even then they are in that crazy SEC territory.
If Ryan loses 3 in a row to Jeem- he’s coaching for his job vs Michigan in ‘24.
That’s one of the side irony’s in this.
whether you and I agree- the OSU fan base ( at least the ones who post on forums) now consider Day to be 1-0 versus Michigan.
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https://www.audacy.com/971theticket/sports/university-of-michigan/pat-caputo-why-jim-harbaugh-must-go?utm_campaign=www.audacy.com%252F971theticket&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=1699106411&utm_term=WXYT-FM&fbclid=IwAR1HRRwn2RArSO5W5bkmVoqdAI2Lukvn3O649JtqEAzK4rAPGWGp-Erl7hc_aem_AX5wBzuu2x7pPU0zl0FJykfHh4uovkCmiHs3q-KLSqQNcIuO6iDUD4Pu12ulMRYZvl4#lok56cd4rumhhxvv8w
Starting to sink in for certain people
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Michigan would have crushed the bucknuts in 2020.
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https://www.audacy.com/971theticket/sports/university-of-michigan/pat-caputo-why-jim-harbaugh-must-go?utm_campaign=www.audacy.com%252F971theticket&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=1699106411&utm_term=WXYT-FM&fbclid=IwAR1HRRwn2RArSO5W5bkmVoqdAI2Lukvn3O649JtqEAzK4rAPGWGp-Erl7hc_aem_AX5wBzuu2x7pPU0zl0FJykfHh4uovkCmiHs3q-KLSqQNcIuO6iDUD4Pu12ulMRYZvl4#lok56cd4rumhhxvv8w
Starting to sink in for certain people
I truly don’t understand how you follow up such a good post with this one. Starting to sink because one article saying Jim should go? There were articles and fans saying Ryan Day should be fired last year after losing to Michigan.
just because there’s people out there trying to get clicks, doesn’t mean there opinionated statements have any weight at all.
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If Ryan loses 3 in a row to Jeem- he’s coaching for his job vs Michigan in ‘24.
Absolutely and even if he wins in '24 it will be almost pyrrhic as it will be vs a program losing a ton of talent that he previously couldn't defeat.Yup that last second loss to the NC Dawgs got him another 2 seasons.
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I truly don’t understand how you follow up such a good post with this one. Starting to sink because one article saying Jim should go? There were articles and fans saying Ryan Day should be fired last year after losing to Michigan.
just because there’s people out there trying to get clicks, doesn’t mean there opinionated statements have any weight at all.
I don’t deny it’s all for clicks. But that guy has been pro Um. I think he is where many people will eventually be.
That’s all.
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I don’t deny it’s all for clicks. But that guy has been pro Um. I think he is where many people will eventually be.
That’s all.
I disagree. I think Michigan coaching and all the nonsense that went on behind the scenes with powerful alums and donors not supporting some of the previous hires, lead to a dumpster fire with RichRod and Hoke and fans hated that far worse than this.
As Michigan keeps winning, I’m willing to bet the support for Harbaugh grows even stronger. The only thing that will change that is damning evidence coming out with his involvement, which is certainly possible.
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I disagree. I think Michigan coaching and all the nonsense that went on behind the scenes with powerful alums and donors not supporting some of the previous hires, lead to a dumpster fire with RichRod and Hoke and fans hated that far worse than this.
As Michigan keeps winning, I’m willing to bet the support for Harbaugh grows even stronger. The only thing that will change that is damning evidence coming out with his involvement, which is certainly possible.
This could be what happens. Who knows.
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This could be what happens. Who knows.
damning evidence coming out with his involvement
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damning evidence coming out with his involvement
No. No evidence comes out and media and UM brass support him- despite potential punishments by the NCAA. Which I think is what SM was saying.
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https://twitter.com/JamesYoder/status/1720836458041225479?t=r4HsKU5BLg9EU1OyplCrBw&s=19
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https://twitter.com/JamesYoder/status/1720836458041225479?t=r4HsKU5BLg9EU1OyplCrBw&s=19
win one for Connor!
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There were articles and fans saying Ryan Day should be fired last year after losing to Michigan.
To be fair, that was before people knew that Michigan was cheating.
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To be fair, that was before people knew that Michigan was cheating.
What will happen this year when no excuses will be left on Nov 26th?
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What will happen this year when no excuses will be left on Nov 26th?
You keep saying that. Why?
What does it have to do with having every opponents play calls for the entire 21 season, the entire 22 season, and every opponent this season assuming they stopped doing it versus MSU?
If Michigan wins out does it prove anything about last years games against those opponents
Is beating this years OSU team, sans CJ Stroud, and in Ann Arbor- mean anything relative to last years game? We’re OSU to win, does it prove anything about last years game?
You can say this needs to play out. Fine. You can say we don’t know what the coaches knew. True.
But you’re just going to have to accept that Michigan had its opponents play calls, from advanced in person filming of them- and that is established. You don’t have the right to tell people who believe that gave Michigan a distinct advantage- that it is an excuse.
We will never know how those games would have been different- but we absolutely have credibility in wondering. If it bothers you that people want to wonder- you’re not thinking objectively. It is going to be questioned for eternity.
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What will happen this year when no excuses will be left on Nov 26th?
Michigan has a very good team this year so they will be favored and if they do win, they'll have two wins over tOSU in the last two decades.
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You keep saying that. Why?
What does it have to do with having every opponents play calls for the entire 21 season, the entire 22 season, and every opponent this season assuming they stopped doing it versus MSU?
Because nearly every Ohio state fan is claiming Michigan only won the last two years because of this and the wins don’t count. 2021 Michigan basically told osu every play what they were doing and it was running Hassan Haskins right down their throat and they still couldn’t stop it. Oh wait, no it was the weather’s fault. Nope, I got it.. it was weather and Stallions.
I make statements like that because most osu fans, demonstrated by the post after yours, take the stand that nothing the players did on the field mattered and it was all cheating. So you guys rest on that and we’ll rest on the fact there’s no excuses left for this season’s matchup.
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Because nearly every Ohio state fan is claiming Michigan only won the last two years because of this and the wins don’t count.
I can take the ass kickings it's the hypocrisy that's unbearable. Fucking Harbaugh flaunted gun laws,doesn't report a pending felony,felon gets on an airliner and nothing's done.Again There were posters even a billboard around campus from this asshole prosecutor Eli Savit "If you are driving with a gun illegally, you will go to jail. I am adamant about strict gun control policy. I will put you in prison". What it should of added "unless of course if you play football for Michigan".Three fights in 7 home games in the tunnel,do you really think when the poltroons over on MGO state none of that was on Michigan that anyone outside of that server believes it? Not a damn thing done as the song says - I'm frightened by those that don't see it
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Because nearly every Ohio state fan is claiming Michigan only won the last two years because of this and the wins don’t count. 2021 Michigan basically told osu every play what they were doing and it was running Hassan Haskins right down their throat and they still couldn’t stop it. Oh wait, no it was the weather’s fault. Nope, I got it.. it was weather and Stallions.
I make statements like that because most osu fans, demonstrated by the post after yours, take the stand that nothing the players did on the field mattered and it was all cheating. So you guys rest on that and we’ll rest on the fact there’s no excuses left for this season’s matchup.
If that lets you sleep at night. Thinking if your team wins this year/ it somehow justifies what someone (s) at Michigans program did. Fallacy.
I would add that your leaving out all other teams that played UM with one hand tied behind their back.
Lastly- I haven't seen much of what you’re describing; fans saying that’s THE ONLY reason UM won. What I have seen is people, in multiple fan bases, thinking that if it wasn’t a perfectly level playing field, the team with the advantage shouldn’t be awarded with a win. I can’t dispute that logic.
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I can take the ass kickings it's the hypocrisy that's unbearable. Fucking Harbaugh flaunted gun laws,doesn't report a pending felony,felon gets on an airliner and nothing's done.Again There were posters even a billboard around campus from this asshole prosecutor Eli Savit "If you are driving with a gun illegally, you will go to jail. I am adamant about strict gun control policy. I will put you in prison". What it should of added "unless of course if you play football for Michigan".Three fights in 7 home games in the tunnel,do you really think when the poltroons over on MGO state none of that was on Michigan that anyone outside of that server believes it? Not a damn thing done as the song says - I'm frightened by those that don't see it
As always, I understand your point and perspective and always appreciate your delivery of the message. Only counter is that some see it and simply don’t want to focus on it. Doesn’t mean they ignore it nor do they think it’s meaningless.
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If that lets you sleep at night. Thinking if your team wins this year/ it somehow justifies what someone (s) at Michigans program did. Fallacy.
I would add that your leaving out all other teams that played UM with one hand tied behind their back.
Lastly- I haven't seen much of what you’re describing; fans saying that’s THE ONLY reason UM won. What I have seen is people, in multiple fan bases, thinking that if it wasn’t a perfectly level playing field, the team with the advantage shouldn’t be awarded with a win. I can’t dispute that logic.
You don’t see it because you’ve chosen to only see what you want to while accusing M fans for making that exact mistake. So since this is the culture that is now defined here, welcome to part of your creation of unreasonableness.
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Fellas we have actual football on
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Fellas we have actual football on
If you don’t mind the rational conversation- you can always take a pass.
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As always, I understand your point and perspective and always appreciate your delivery of the message. Only counter is that some see it and simply don’t want to focus on it. Doesn’t mean they ignore it nor do they think it’s meaningless.
Mario when the very prosecutor makes brash statements then doesn't follow thru that is problematic.They flat out ignored the legal and moral applications - so ya meaningless. Then harbaugh calls all 8 of those MSU kids punks but Mazi is a good kid? - 2 months laterSMDH.Honestly I'm surprised the Feds didn't jump on this,there were posters of his get tough on guns talk and there were pictures of his office walls lined with Wolverine memorabelia.Why didn't he recuse himself it's my understanding many attorney's do this if there is an obvious conflict of interest
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Fellas we have actual football on
Yup! HIDE YO SIGNZZZZ
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;D don't forget the glock and 3 clips
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;D don't forget the glock and 3 clips
Hell yeah
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If you don’t mind the rational conversation- you can always take a pass.
I'm just saying you can talk trash in terms of actual football
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Mario when the very prosecutor makes brash statements then doesn't follow thru that is problematic.They flat out ignored the legal and moral applications - so ya meaningless. Then harbaugh calls all 8 of those MSU kids punks but Mazi is a good kid? - 2 months laterSMDH.Honestly I'm surprised the Feds didn't jump on this,there were posters of his get tough on guns talk and there were pictures of his office walls lined with Wolverine memorabelia.Why didn't he recuse himself it's my understanding many attorney's do this if there is an obvious conflict of interest
I don’t disagree with you at all. That being said, there’s always been favoritism with local law and local athletes at major programs. It doesn’t make it right, but it’s certainly not unique to Harbaugh and Michigan.
Secondly, Harbaugh is certainly making a common error when you bring up MSU and Mazi comparisons. When people work hard at investing into very flawed people, they overlook or make excuses for the people they invest in, hoping they can make better decisions in the future, while dismissing the bad decisions made currently. At the same time, they easily see the faults and flaws of people outside of their circle and investment. Again, I don’t think it makes him a scumbag, but someone that’s inconsistent for people he cares about versus those he doesn’t. Sure doesn’t make it right, but it’s common hypocrisy well beyond just him. Doesn’t make it right either nor excusable. I just don’t personally see him as a terrible person, just someone that cares about leniency for those that benefit him strict consequences for those that don’t benefit him.
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One week before the MSU Brawl Franklin of all people said it would happen and Booger called him the ringleader and said he had bigger fish to fry.Of course yet another fight errupts then someone gets roughed up and that shit for brains starts calling for investigations that he had the biggest hand in is pointing fingers at everyone else - when he above all others could have reigned it in. He is the outlier or liar what ever you perfer - ignores legal or decent protocols
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this is hilarious...
https://twitter.com/nocontextcfb/status/1720995428416557342?s=20
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Significant rumor that Coach Harbaugh will be suspended indefinitely in a day or two by the Big Ten and that Michigan will challenge in court seeking a stay in his suspension on the ground it violates Big Ten investigation rules and would cause irreparable harm.
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I guess anything can be challenged in court
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I think we're in the Dead Period where there is little to no news, so folks report rumors and rumors of rumors instead.
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Oh shut up CD and just let it be true :)
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well, there was the cry for due process yesterday
another damning admission
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I struggle to understand how Stalions could have effected this rather complex set of actions and then done nothing with the information.
He sat on the data? Maybe he offered it to the coaches and they said "No thanks?", but he continued to do it?
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isn't there video of Stalions standing next to Michigan coordinators and offering advice while they are calling plays??
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I've seen his standing next to the coordinators, what he was doing is not clear, to me.
Maybe he contrived all this and then nobody was interested in it.
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probably why he resigned and the Michigan AD & Pres are beggin for due process
:57:
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I don't think all the evidence is clear, yet, and won't be for a while. Anything made "public" in the next few weeks is PROBABLY speculation, not real evidence.
It'll all come out eventually, I think.
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there are more than a few conference coaches and ADs that think there is sufficient evidence
they are asking the Commissioner to act with penalties
they don't want to wait for eventually
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I think "they" should gather more information and evidence, myself, before any penalties.
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I think that's a lot of smoke
too much for no fire
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I tend to agree, but the evidence the UM coaches used the information is, as yet, speculative, and being denied.
I'd collect more evidence that Stalions was next to the OC/DC in games and UM seemed able to "call" opponent plays accurately, and perhaps get ahold of any sheets they had on them. That video of an OSU sideline call that caused the UM bench to erupt was salient, get more of those.
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I think "they" should gather more information and evidence, myself, before any penalties.
Just my opinion. Word is the Big asked the NCAA for the evidence they already have. They took that to their meeting with UM brass. This was after the letter UM prez wrote - which is all over the net- asking for due process to play out.
According to multiple “ Michigan insiders” this evidence was “ overwhelming “ and new to UM brass. I have no idea if true- or what that was.
One thing that seems obvious- based on what the other Schools have apparently provided.
That these tickets were purchased, these seats were filled, and the signal and matching plays were filmed/ recorded. It’s been said to be 35 games over the 21,22, and this season. And as both Nebraska and Purdue coaches have said- they have seen the video a receipts.
That part of the investigation is likely over. There is plenty of evidence out there to support this. Video doesn’t lie.
The part that is not- apparently- is who / if anyone on UM staff knew/ condoned/ signed off. To my knowledge- nothing has been presented or leaked to implicate the other staff.
What I find weird is - why go after Harbaugh now with that part of the investigation not complete? On the other hand- why ask for “ due process “ when your major player ( Stalions) is not cooperating and therefore obstructing due process.
Again/ just an opinion here, but I am basing on what supposed UM insiders are saying. UM feels like this years’ team is an excellent team and has a good shot at the big prize ( I agree), and they are doing everything they can to stall- even though they understand there is a likelihood these games in question will be vacated later when the NCAA is finished. Conversely- that’s why the other schools are applying so much pressure on the BIG to step in. They feel it would hurt the conference in the end, and has already had a negative impact on their seasons, draft choices, brands, etc. They feel allowing it to continue would be tantamount to blessing that illegal activity.
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I tend to agree, but the evidence the UM coaches used the information is, as yet, speculative, and being denied.
I'd collect more evidence that Stalions was next to the OC/DC in games and UM seemed able to "call" opponent plays accurately, and perhaps get ahold of any sheets they had on them. That video of an OSU sideline call that caused the UM bench to erupt was salient, get more of those.
Lol. Stalions was one of several that would sign plays. So yes, he’d stand next to the OC or DC. Maybe even talk to them.
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I tend to agree, but the evidence the UM coaches used the information is, as yet, speculative, and being denied.
I'd collect more evidence that Stalions was next to the OC/DC in games and UM seemed able to "call" opponent plays accurately, and perhaps get ahold of any sheets they had on them. That video of an OSU sideline call that caused the UM bench to erupt was salient, get more of those.
I believe they have a ton of it. I believe the other schools- who were directly asked by the NCAA to look for it as well as ticket receipts- have provided it. I have seen quite a bit of it floating around online besides the one clip you referenced.
Lastly- even if you somehow believe he collected that info over 3 seasons ( which is documented) but it was never used( you would have to be pretty naive to believe that), it wouldn’t matter. It is against the rules. It is a blatant violator the concept of integrity of the game.
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Again/ just an opinion here, but I am basing on what supposed UM insiders are saying. UM feels like this years’ team is an excellent team and has a good shot at the big prize ( I agree), and they are doing everything they can to stall- even though they understand there is a likelihood these games in question will be vacated later when the NCAA is finished. Conversely- that’s why the other schools are applying so much pressure on the BIG to step in. They feel it would hurt the conference in the end, and has already had a negative impact on their seasons, draft choices, brands, etc. They feel allowing it to continue would be tantamount to blessing that illegal activity.
And if the other schools truly believe this, then they’re idiots. Their brands are impacted because of their play, not one single game. Draft picks aren’t impacted by one single game, outside of maybe injury. Those are all excuses of substandard performance over the course of a season or seasons. Purdue’s coach seemed to have a lot to say before the game and nothing after.
lastly, the rest of the conference(besides penn state) should be hoping that Ohio State v Michigan is two undefeated schools with this story continuing to swirl, with no action take yet. It would be one of the most watched games and one of the biggest college football stories possibly ever, especially if the Christopher Day involvement gains traction(if that’s even remotely true).
this sport has become about money, if the rest of the schools can’t see the positive impact it could have on money generation, then they truly are stupid trying to push for harsh penalties as fast as possible. Like it or not, crippling Michigan with punishment will send the conference in a further downward spiral at a time that may be unwise. Trust me, I don’t believe it’s “the right thing to do” from a moral and character side, but harming one of your helmet schools in this day in age will have far more impact than on solely that school.
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And if the other schools truly believe this, then they’re idiots. Their brands are impacted because of their play, not one single game. Draft picks aren’t impacted by one single game, outside of maybe injury. Those are all excuses of substandard performance over the course of a season or seasons. Purdue’s coach seemed to have a lot to say before the game and nothing after.
lastly, the rest of the conference(besides penn state) should be hoping that Ohio State v Michigan is two undefeated schools with this story continuing to swirl, with no action take yet. It would be one of the most watched games and one of the biggest college football stories possibly ever, especially if the Christopher Day involvement gains traction(if that’s even remotely true).
this sport has become about money, if the rest of the schools can’t see the positive impact it could have on money generation, then they truly are stupid trying to push for harsh penalties as fast as possible. Like it or not, crippling Michigan with punishment will send the conference in a further downward spiral at a time that may be unwise. Trust me, I don’t believe it’s “the right thing to do” from a moral and character side, but harming one of your helmet schools in this day in age will have far more impact than on solely that school.
So CJ Stroud, who carved up everyone he played, including the best defense in CFB ( Georgia) and is now carving up teams in the NFL, just sucked that day last year. Against UM, who couldn’t stop Max Dugan, or their own shadow, the very next game they played.
The Heisman was his to win or lose that day. But if you watch that game now - with the ability to rewind and look closely- it was incredible how UM seemed to know with certainty not only if it was a run or pass, but on running plays, exactly where it was going, and on pass plays, exactly where the WRs are going. My better half reminded me yesterday. She said basically- you were so impressed with Michigan when they played OHio State last year. You said 3 or 4 times “ damn these guys are good/ it’s like they know what play we are running”. It’s fair for us to wonder now.
But your taking the MDot angle- anyone who disagrees is an idiot. I get it.
I agree with you on the money thing.
But by letting this just slide- what is the impact of that?
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So CJ Stroud, who carved up everyone he played, including the best defense in CFB ( Georgia) and is now carving up teams in the NFL, just sucked that day last year. Against UM, who couldn’t stop Max Dugan, or their own shadow, the very next game they played.
The Heisman was his to win or lose that day. But if you watch that game now - with the ability to rewind and look closely- it was incredible how UM seemed to know with certainty not only if it was a run or pass, but on running plays, exactly where it was going, and on pass plays, exactly where the WRs are going. My better half reminded me yesterday. She said basically- you were so impressed with Michigan when they played OHio State last year. You said 3 or 4 times “ damn these guys are good/ it’s like they know what play we are running”. It’s fair for us to wonder now.
But your taking the MDot angle- anyone who disagrees is an idiot. I get it.
I agree with you on the money thing.
But by letting this just slide- what is the impact of that?
I never understand OsU fans when it comes to Stroud. I have good friends that dislike him and call him an osu failure. The guy threw for 350 yards and 2 touchdowns in the game and had a tremendous game. He sucked because OSU lost? Why do you guys continue to say he sucked when he lit it up.
secondly, when have I ever taken the stance that if you disagree with me you’re an idiot? That’s not my personality at all. Anyone in my personal life and anyone that works for me would echo that I’m always the guy to hear out the other side or a different perspective. That being said, there are stances and positions in life that are idiotic. A conference wanting the #4 revenue generator in the country squashed is unwise.
so yes, if this was the SEC and Vanderbilt, Kentucky and Missouri were saying that Georgia or Bama should have crippling punishment in a similar situation, I’d call that mindset idiot that would harm the conference.
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I never understand OsU fans when it comes to Stroud. I have good friends that dislike him and call him an osu failure. The guy threw for 350 yards and 2 touchdowns in the game and had a tremendous game. He sucked because OSU lost? Why do you guys continue to say he sucked when he lit it up.
secondly, when have I ever taken the stance that if you disagree with me you’re an idiot? That’s not my personality at all. Anyone in my personal life and anyone that works for me would echo that I’m always the guy to hear out the other side or a different perspective. That being said, there are stances and positions in life that are idiotic. A conference wanting the #4 revenue generator in the country squashed is unwise.
so yes, if this was the SEC and Vanderbilt, Kentucky and Missouri were saying that Georgia or Bama should have crippling punishment in a similar situation, I’d call that mindset idiot that would harm the conference.
Yeah OSU fans in general- are out of their minds
Don’t lump me in- I liked Stroud from the start. He played well against UM and Georgia.
But he could have thrown for 7 TDS against UM- but when you lose “ The Game” you lose the trophy.
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Yeah OSU fans in general- are out of their minds
Don’t lump me in- I liked Stroud from the start. He played well against UM and Georgia.
But he could have thrown for 7 TDS against UM- but when you lose “ The Game” you lose the trophy.
But he didn’t and everyone is dismissing plays being made by Michigan players that are incredibly talented and saying they happened from knowing the play. It’s both possibly true and possibly credited to the talent of the player. And yes, I would agree part of crossing the line of sign stealing would be taking away the truth of knowing it… that’s if they crossed the line.
and yes, if osu fans don’t like CJ they are out of their mind. I simply don’t get it. It was tough to root against him based on his uniform. He’s incredibly talented, but also personally he seems like a great kid. He’s someone people should rally around, rather than egotistical punks that paint their nails with f-bombs on them.
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I think harm to the conference for penalizing a top program would be less than overlooking what could be a devastating cheating scandal. And of course the NCAA has purview.
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Speaking of Stroud- he has thrown for 400 yards and 4 tds today- despite being sacked 3 times and harassed all day, and having quite a few passes not count because his lineman got called for holding.
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Nobody is questioning that Michigan has good players. They have always been good over Harbaugh. But they went from 10-2 good to CFP good. Of course the cheating didn't turn a crap team into a great team. But it very clearly appears to be what got them over the hump. It's not like they would have been 4-8 without it. But at this point how far does the fruit of the poisonous tree extend. How many guys committed to the program, players and coaches, based upon the 2021 and 2022 season. Both the on field results, and the slight boosts players got, which might mean better NFL Draft results?
Failing to cover against Purdue is a bad first look. Will they finally beat Ohio State clean? Maybe. They are a very good team. But if you really want to prove the cheating doesn't matter, you need to not only be clean, but cut off the fruit of those poisonous branches
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Speaking of Stroud- he has thrown for 400 yards and 4 tds today- despite being sacked 3 times and harassed all day, and having quite a few passes not count because his lineman got called for holding.
I watched the end of that game. Led a come-from-behind TD drive in the final minute to get the win and in the process set the NFL rookie single game passing yardage record.
Yrah, he's pretty good!
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I never understand OsU fans when it comes to Stroud. I have good friends that dislike him and call him an osu failure. The guy threw for 350 yards and 2 touchdowns in the game and had a tremendous game. He sucked because OSU lost? Why do you guys continue to say he sucked when he lit it up.
(sigh)Now you're making shit up, really? I've never heard ANYONE say Stroud sucked or was a failure NOBODY Michigan Fans perhaps .I've read MGO many times and they don't agree on half of the crap they discuss but ALL Buckeye fans do? SMDH - BULLSHIT
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I watched the end of that game. Led a come-from-behind TD drive in the final minute to get the win and in the process set the NFL rookie single game passing yardage record.
Yrah, he's pretty good!
His accuracy is unbelievable,that last drive he put a 21 yd strike right where only Dell could grab it and get out of bounds with 12 seconds to go on the 19.Clutch and accurate
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(sigh)Now you're making shit up, really? I've never heard ANYONE say Stroud sucked or was a failure NOBODY Michigan Fans perhaps .I've read MGO many times and they don't agree on half of the crap they discuss but ALL Buckeye fans do? SMDH - BULLSHIT
Come to my office. I’ll give you the address and you’re plenty close. Why would I make that up? Secondly, go read my damn post if you’re going to accuse me. I said I have good friends that said it and HB said he sucked The Game which I disagree he far from sucked. And here’s the screenshot of my response…
(https://i.imgur.com/5nBAgrA.jpg)
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What is that neither a name to the poster or recipient - I don't get it.If HB said it it's still in the archives I would have disagreed if I saw that.We all have bad days doesn't mean we suck,specially that kid. So one fan that you know stated CJ sucks and you don't get Ohio St fans - the whole fookin' UM fanbase denied any culpability in the tunnel fights in games the Michigan was suppose to be HOSTING.Won't even bring up Booger hiding the Glock and 3 clips - quit lumping everyone together
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I will be more clear next time. I don’t get “some” Ohio state fans. SOME really were not huge fans of Stroud, did not like him and felt he let them down in the game and couldn’t win a big one. My screenshot, cropped like that to keep people’s real names off it and throwing them under the bus because they don’t post there, was my reaction to so many texts defending Stroud. I could give you a list of times both last year and this year in the NFL I have raved about Stroud because I thought he was underappreciated by many last year.
Again, my message should have been more clear to not wrap in ALL osu fans.. just more than I expected had crapped on CJ over the last year.
And if you expect other fans not to wrap in ALL osu fans, then try showing the same respect to other fans as well as you went and grouped all Um fans together.
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I do I just emphasized that there
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For the record Nubzz. I never said he sucked. I was trying to illustrate the impact to other schools and teams and awards, etc. of potential Michigan cheating.
I said the trophy was Stroud’s to win or lose, but because Ohio State lost to Michigan he no longer was winning the Heisman.
SM pointed out that he played well in the game- which to a high degree, he did.
But if you’re the leading contenders for the Heisman, and you lose “The Game” you lose the trophy.
I have been a humongous Pro Stroud person from his very first start.
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WSJ says the Big Ten to defer to NCAA investigation. Lynch mob deterred.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/michigan-warns-big-ten-against-disciplining-team-over-sign-stealing-allegations/ar-AA1jqiYp (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/michigan-warns-big-ten-against-disciplining-team-over-sign-stealing-allegations/ar-AA1jqiYp)
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So CJ Stroud, who carved up everyone he played, including the best defense in CFB ( Georgia) and is now carving up teams in the NFL, just sucked that day last year.
You did say he sucked that day. Just tired of being painted as a guy that makes things up. You could have misspoken, but it was said.
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You did say he sucked that day. Just tired of being painted as a guy that makes things up. You could have misspoken, but it was said.
Reading comprehension my friend. It was presented as a sarcastic hypothetical.
Clearly my way of saying “ yeah- right”.
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Nobody is questioning that Michigan has good players. They have always been good over Harbaugh. But they went from 10-2 good to CFP good. Of course the cheating didn't turn a crap team into a great team. But it very clearly appears to be what got them over the hump. It's not like they would have been 4-8 without it. But at this point how far does the fruit of the poisonous tree extend. How many guys committed to the program, players and coaches, based upon the 2021 and 2022 season. Both the on field results, and the slight boosts players got, which might mean better NFL Draft results?
Failing to cover against Purdue is a bad first look. Will they finally beat Ohio State clean? Maybe. They are a very good team. But if you really want to prove the cheating doesn't matter, you need to not only be clean, but cut off the fruit of those poisonous branches
this is a lazy, stupid take.
They went from 10-2 good to CFP good because they got MASSIVE upgrades at the QB position, RB position, OL coach, and DC. JJ McCarthy is likely going to be a 1st rd pick. The last time Michigan had one of those at QB was in 1987. He is LIGHT YEARS better and far more talented than fcking mediocre turds like Jake Rudock or Wilton Speight. Blake Corum and Donovan Edwards are both massive upgrades over backs like De'Veon Smith or Karran Higdon or Chris Evans. The caliber of player they've been playing with in the offensive backfield at QB-RB is LIGHT YEARS above where it has been in the past. Throw on top of that they struck gold with hiring Sherrone Moore in 2021 to coach OL- a guy that is going to be a future HC in the P5 and is maybe the best OL coach in the nation. Then throw on top of that they got rid of Don Brown's bum ass and hired a pair of NFL 3-4 DC's from the Ravens from Jeem's brother.
Give me a fcking break. Failing to cover against Purdue was meaningless. Michigan was covering and up 35 points until Purdue scored a cheap meaningless TD with all it's starters in the game with 18 seconds left in the game. Purdue only scored 6 points in non-garbage time. And they were extremely lucky to get the 6 points they got. Purdue got 3 points because a punt hit a Michigan player in the back and Purdue recovered the ball in the red area and already in FG range. 3 more points came because Jeem decided to go for it on his own 35 yard line on a 4th and 1 with a shotgun dive run and failed to convert.
lazy stupid takes gonna lazy stupid take however.
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WSJ says the Big Ten to defer to NCAA investigation. Lynch mob deterred.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/michigan-warns-big-ten-against-disciplining-team-over-sign-stealing-allegations/ar-AA1jqiYp (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/michigan-warns-big-ten-against-disciplining-team-over-sign-stealing-allegations/ar-AA1jqiYp)
There is nothing new in this article. One’s letter was sent to the Big - and the other school presidents- BEFORE he met with commish. According to “ UM insiders” Ono was shown new evidence he was not aware of- said to be “overwhelming.”
what they are saying now is that the big 10 and the University of Michigan brass have been trying to negotiate. They are saying that UM won’t even except a limited suspension of the head coach, and the Big Ten is pushing for an indefinite suspension of the coach.
They are saying that the law firms hired by Michigan, have been working around the clock to prepare an injunction for when the Big Ten tries to suspend Harbaugh. They are also saying that they are threatening to turn over “dirt” that they have on all the other schools.
If you’re going down take everyone down with you- kind of thing.
The Michigan insiders have been off quite a bit on all of this- so no idea how much of this is true.
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There is nothing new in this article. One’s letter was sent to the Big - and the other school presidents- BEFORE he met with commish. According to “ UM insiders” Ono was shown new evidence he was not aware of- said to be “overwhelming.”
what they are saying now is that the big 10 and the University of Michigan brass have been trying to negotiate. They are saying that UM won’t even except a limited suspension of the head coach, and the Big Ten is pushing for an indefinite suspension of the coach.
They are saying that the law firms hired by Michigan, have been working around the clock to prepare an injunction for when the Big Ten tries to suspend Harbaugh. They are also saying that they are threatening to turn over “dirt” that they have on all the other schools.
If you’re going down take everyone down with you- kind of thing.
The Michigan insiders have been off quite a bit on all of this- so no idea how much of this is true.
I believe the one "insider" you're probably referring to is Chris Balas currently at On3, who used to work at Rivals but got fired. The guy is a total asshat and clown that just makes sh*t up and has no sources.
B1G can't just suspend Jeem because AD's and coaches are sore losers and butthurt and scared. B1G bylaws state- have to do an investigation. You aren't doing an investigation in a weekend...
refer to by section 10.3.1...
https://bigten.org/documents/2022/11/23/2022_23_Big_Ten_Handbook_Sportsmanship.pdf
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I wouldn’t call ELA’s post lazy and stupid. He is just voicing what a lot of people are thinking.
I do tend to agree with you MDot- on Purdue. Michigan absolutely annihilated them even while being a little rusty coming off the bye week, which is very normal.
In fact, I will make his point again Michigan has the most talented team in the Big Ten, straight up on a level, playing field, and maybe the best team in the country. THIS SEASON.
I will be happy to wager that they win against Penn State and Ohio State, as well as the Big Ten championship, knowing that they are playing straight up with no sign stealing, because they are just that good.
But what you were missing here is it does not change what happened in 21 and 22. They had an ill gotten, in- game advantage. You simply can’t just say “well they’re the best team right now so they would have one in 21 and 22 anyway.”
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I believe the one "insider" you're probably referring to is Chris Balas currently at On3, who used to work at Rivals but got fired. The guy is a total asshat and clown that just makes sh*t up and has no sources.
B1G can't just suspend Jeem because AD's and coaches are sore losers and butthurt and scared. B1G bylaws state- have to do an investigation. You aren't doing an investigation in a weekend...
refer to by section 10.3.1...
https://bigten.org/documents/2022/11/23/2022_23_Big_Ten_Handbook_Sportsmanship.pdf
It isn’t just Balas. It’s Hole and Webb- and certain posters They are all marching to the same tune now. It’s as if they all received the same talking points.
but let’s be honest- they are all moving the goal posts.
- it’s a nothing burger
- it didn’t provide an advantage
- it was a lone wolf
- everybody does it
-it’s Ryan Day’s fault
-let the investigation play out
-sue everyone
-leave the BIG conference
-they are scared of Harbaugh
- now it’s “bring everyone down”. - we have the dirt on them
standing on the outside looking in- it is sad
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I started wondering if UGA/Smart didn't have wind of this and did a "TCU". They played awfully well against UM.
If both TCU and UGA came out and said "Yeah, we suspected this and switched our signals", it would be indicative I think, or suggestive at least.
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JJ McCarthy is likely going to be a 1st rd pick. The last time Michigan had one of those at QB was in 1987. Blake Corum and Donovan Edwards are both massive upgrades over backs like De'Veon Smith or Karran Higdon or Chris Evans.
I dunno Edwards has averaged under 3ypc except Min./BG when he had 5ypc . The 3 you mentioned averaged over 5 and wouldn't embarrass themselves behind that line. I wouldn't mention Edwards with Sanders/Payton just yet.If he stays away from his anti-semite slams one of the owners just might take a chance on him.And Manziel and Weeden both went in the 1st RD(BROWNS) so there is a chance JJ "leave my girl alone,dad" McCarthy could land there
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NFL Mock Drafts 2024 - Football Draft Projections - CBSSports.com (https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock-draft/)
I usually pay these no attention, but these "experts" do have JJ as a one rounder.
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That mock draft cracks me up Bears upgrading everywhere but the lines - isn't that where they need help?
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Reading comprehension my friend. It was presented as a sarcastic hypothetical.
Clearly my way of saying “ yeah- right”.
So let me get this straight. Your argument is Michigan sign stealing impacts players, CJ is dominant against everyone else including the NFL, but just magically “sucked” that day and the sarcasm part is claiming he didn’t actually suck that day? Then what possibly could your argument have been about the sign stealing?
Can’t play it both ways my man. But yeah, I have reading comprehension problems.
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There is nothing new in this article. One’s letter was sent to the Big - and the other school presidents- BEFORE he met with commish. According to “ UM insiders” Ono was shown new evidence he was not aware of- said to be “overwhelming.”
what they are saying now is that the big 10 and the University of Michigan brass have been trying to negotiate. They are saying that UM won’t even except a limited suspension of the head coach, and the Big Ten is pushing for an indefinite suspension of the coach.
They are saying that the law firms hired by Michigan, have been working around the clock to prepare an injunction for when the Big Ten tries to suspend Harbaugh. They are also saying that they are threatening to turn over “dirt” that they have on all the other schools.
If you’re going down take everyone down with you- kind of thing.
The Michigan insiders have been off quite a bit on all of this- so no idea how much of this is true.
What's new is that the Big Ten will wait on the NCAA investigation. I doubted the Big Ten would do anything before an investigation was launched and completed which the Big Ten has not done. Even more in doubt is the idea of an indefinite suspension for which the Big Ten commissioner does not have the authority. That would take a vote of the Big Ten presidents and chancellors. The worst Pettiti could do is a two week suspension. So, since the B1G will defer to the NCAA, as it should, don't expect anything this year. Maybe not next either since Michigan would get a 90 day period to respond to any notice of allegations from the NCAA.
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What's new is that the Big Ten will wait on the NCAA investigation. I doubted the Big Ten would do anything before an investigation was launched and completed which the Big Ten has not done. Even more in doubt is the idea of an indefinite suspension for which the Big Ten commissioner does not have the authority. That would take a vote of the Big Ten presidents and chancellors. The worst Pettiti could do is a two week suspension. So, since the B1G will defer to the NCAA, as it should, don't expect anything this year. Maybe not next either since Michigan would get a 90 day period to respond to any notice of allegations from the NCAA.
Maybe. Or- that article is just behind the story as it was released before what appears to be a lot of activity last night.
Also- the article was written by Rachel Bachman- a Michigan graduate who wrote for the Michigan daily when she was on campus. Not sure how much cred I would give.
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We're in the rumor period, deeply now. I suspect most of the speculation is no more than that.
"Insiders (unnamed) say that X will happen soon."
In my experience, most stories of that ilk are exaggerated.
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We're in the rumor period, deeply now. I suspect most of the speculation is no more than that.
"Insiders (unnamed) say that X will happen soon."
In my experience, most stories of that ilk are exaggerated.
That's for sure. Also rumors of an hours long pissing contest yesterday between the B1G and Michigan where they're still pushing for a suspension prior to any investigation. Michigan will have no part of that and would seek and injunction. So, what's going to happen? Anything from nothing out of Chicago and Ann Arbor to war. If nothing happens this week I think its safe to say Petitti came to his senses.
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That's for sure. Also rumors of an hours long pissing contest yesterday between the B1G and Michigan where they're still pushing for a suspension prior to any investigation. Michigan will have no part of that and would seek and injunction. So, what's going to happen? Anything from nothing out of Chicago and Ann Arbor to war. If nothing happens this week I think its safe to say Petitti came to his senses.
Are you this deep in denial?
Allowing cheaters to benefit is "coming to senses"?
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I read they would be forced to forfeit all bowl wins over the past few years.
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I believe the one "insider" you're probably referring to is Chris Balas currently at On3, who used to work at Rivals but got fired. The guy is a total asshat and clown that just makes sh*t up and has no sources.
B1G can't just suspend Jeem because AD's and coaches are sore losers and butthurt and scared. B1G bylaws state- have to do an investigation. You aren't doing an investigation in a weekend...
refer to by section 10.3.1...
https://bigten.org/documents/2022/11/23/2022_23_Big_Ten_Handbook_Sportsmanship.pdf
Don't even start yapping about sore losers/butthurt then discuss by bi-laws when blatant felonies were skirted and not reported last season
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I read they would be forced to forfeit all bowl wins over the past few years.
What bowl wins?
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It's been a while since I was a sore loser, so there is that at least.
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I read they would be forced to forfeit all bowl wins over the past few years.
In my opinion, that is inevitable. ( wins and BIG Titled)
I believe a lot of Michigan people realize that and that includes fans and administration.
That is not the fight now. Their fight now is to delay the punishment such that they can continue with their magical season, which could end up with a national championship. They don’t care if it all gets vacated later.
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If you can steal defensive signals, can you also steal an actual defense? Because somebody definitely stole ours. MIA since 9/3/23.
I'm just gonna go ahead and blame Michigan if it's alright with everyone here.
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So long as bowl win forfeits don't go back to 2015, they should be fine.
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So let me get this straight. Your argument is Michigan sign stealing impacts players, CJ is dominant against everyone else including the NFL, but just magically “sucked” that day and the sarcasm part is claiming he didn’t actually suck that day? Then what possibly could your argument have been about the sign stealing?
Can’t play it both ways my man. But yeah, I have reading comprehension problems.
Parsing my words and playing word salad now.
I will just tell you my opinion on the whole thing, and I believe it is very reasonable. You are free to disagree with it.
IF ( emphasis on IF) Michigan used the recording of their opponents play calls it gave them an unfair advantage, created a not level playing field.
They didn’t need to- they were, and are, a really good team
But it impacted plays, results, perceptions of players, awards, draft choices and this is true of every opponent they played. It impacted who got into the CFP. In other words- very far reaching impact. Recruiting is another huge impact.
I used Stroud’s Heisman journey as but 1 example. Does the knowledge of play calls impact who won the game last year? We can debate that forever- but we would be missing the bigger point. And that is- we may never know, but the question itself is legitimate. That’s the point.
I will defend Harbaugh here. To my knowledge, nothing has been reported or leaked that suggests that he was aware. So I think suspending him at this point, barring some evidence, that the NCAA a shared with the Big Ten commissioner that we are not aware of, is premature. I think they are still investigating that.
But this chorus of people saying it needs to be fully investigated, are missing something here. First of all the question of whether this activity took place is its own question, and I would opine that that part of the investigation has been going on for a long time, and that case has been fully proven to the powers that be. Unless you’re going to make the argument that there are no receipts for these 35 games in 17 different opponent stadiums, and there is no video of him or somebody video recording the entire game of the opponent. It is my opinion that that has been proven beyond the doubt and people in the know have that evidence.
So again, if that is the case, this crap about “due process” is nothing but crap. If you already know what happened, even if you still aren’t sure who knew about it on the Michigan staff, you can take action based on that alone. I would’ve had that due process is a bunch of baloney if you’re not cooperating with the investigation and our stonewalling, which is obviously what Michigan is doing here.
It’s my belief that the commissioner of the Big Ten is in possession of this evidence, and wants to do something now based on the impact it has on the season and continues to have in this season. That is where this is unprecedented. Never before ever had potential endgame cheating be discovered in the middle of a season.
how it plays out in the short run? I won’t venture to guess. If they have that evidence and allow Michigan to continue, it’s going to look pretty stupid if it gets vacated later.
I do have a high level of confidence that they’re 21, 22 Big Ten titles, and all of those wins will be vacated by the NCAA at some point in the future
Everything I said, above is just common sense, one person is opinion, but is very reasonable, set a of thought processes. Fire way on what you disagree with.
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If you can steal defensive signals, can you also steal an actual defense? Because somebody definitely stole ours. MIA since 9/3/23.
I'm just gonna go ahead and blame Michigan if it's alright with everyone here.
:cool2: Of course just don't make it so obvious like they do
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this is a lazy, stupid take.
They went from 10-2 good to CFP good because they got MASSIVE upgrades at the QB position, RB position, OL coach, and DC. JJ McCarthy is likely going to be a 1st rd pick. The last time Michigan had one of those at QB was in 1987. He is LIGHT YEARS better and far more talented than fcking mediocre turds like Jake Rudock or Wilton Speight. Blake Corum and Donovan Edwards are both massive upgrades over backs like De'Veon Smith or Karran Higdon or Chris Evans. The caliber of player they've been playing with in the offensive backfield at QB-RB is LIGHT YEARS above where it has been in the past. Throw on top of that they struck gold with hiring Sherrone Moore in 2021 to coach OL- a guy that is going to be a future HC in the P5 and is maybe the best OL coach in the nation. Then throw on top of that they got rid of Don Brown's bum ass and hired a pair of NFL 3-4 DC's from the Ravens from Jeem's brother.
Give me a fcking break. Failing to cover against Purdue was meaningless. Michigan was covering and up 35 points until Purdue scored a cheap meaningless TD with all it's starters in the game with 18 seconds left in the game. Purdue only scored 6 points in non-garbage time. And they were extremely lucky to get the 6 points they got. Purdue got 3 points because a punt hit a Michigan player in the back and Purdue recovered the ball in the red area and already in FG range. 3 more points came because Jeem decided to go for it on his own 35 yard line on a 4th and 1 with a shotgun dive run and failed to convert.
lazy stupid takes gonna lazy stupid take however.
No, lazy is thinking that if Michigan beats OSU this year, that means it never mattered. Wouldn't be the first, or second time, Michigan benefitted off building a brand through cheating though, so I get why that would be tough to understand.
Again, nobody is saying Michigan only won because of this. But the timeline sure lines up with them getting over the hump from 10-2 to CFP. And that defense sure looks a lot different both times they were forced to face a team they didn't know in advance.
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So now the NCAA has joined the investigation into Conor Stalions being in the CMU sideline, for MSU game this year.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38833288/ncaa-joins-central-michigan-investigation-sideline-staffer
I saw this posted on another forum- you have to admit it’s funny!
Aw, c'mon. Everybody knows if you're wearing dark shades, no one can tell who you are.
Harbaugh himself is alleged to have told Stalions:
"Now go out and get yourself
Some thick black frames,
With the glass so dark
They won't even know your name".
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Parsing my words and playing word salad now.
I will just tell you my opinion on the whole thing, and I believe it is very reasonable. You are free to disagree with it.
IF ( emphasis on IF) Michigan used the recording of their opponents play calls it gave them an unfair advantage, created a not level playing field.
They didn’t need to- they were, and are, a really good team
But it impacted plays, results, perceptions of players, awards, draft choices and this is true of every opponent they played. It impacted who got into the CFP. In other words- very far reaching impact. Recruiting is another huge impact.
I used Stroud’s Heisman journey as but 1 example. Does the knowledge of play calls impact who won the game last year? We can debate that forever- but we would be missing the bigger point. And that is- we may never know, but the question itself is legitimate. That’s the point.
I will defend Harbaugh here. To my knowledge, nothing has been reported or leaked that suggests that he was aware. So I think suspending him at this point, barring some evidence, that the NCAA a shared with the Big Ten commissioner that we are not aware of, is premature. I think they are still investigating that.
But this chorus of people saying it needs to be fully investigated, are missing something here. First of all the question of whether this activity took place is its own question, and I would opine that that part of the investigation has been going on for a long time, and that case has been fully proven to the powers that be. Unless you’re going to make the argument that there are no receipts for these 35 games in 17 different opponent stadiums, and there is no video of him or somebody video recording the entire game of the opponent. It is my opinion that that has been proven beyond the doubt and people in the know have that evidence.
So again, if that is the case, this crap about “due process” is nothing but crap. If you already know what happened, even if you still aren’t sure who knew about it on the Michigan staff, you can take action based on that alone. I would’ve had that due process is a bunch of baloney if you’re not cooperating with the investigation and our stonewalling, which is obviously what Michigan is doing here.
It’s my belief that the commissioner of the Big Ten is in possession of this evidence, and wants to do something now based on the impact it has on the season and continues to have in this season. That is where this is unprecedented. Never before ever had potential endgame cheating be discovered in the middle of a season.
how it plays out in the short run? I won’t venture to guess. If they have that evidence and allow Michigan to continue, it’s going to look pretty stupid if it gets vacated later.
I do have a high level of confidence that they’re 21, 22 Big Ten titles, and all of those wins will be vacated by the NCAA at some point in the future
Everything I said, above is just common sense, one person is opinion, but is very reasonable, set a of thought processes. Fire way on what you disagree with.
The funny part is that I actually don't disagree with much of what you're saying. I'm not sure about the high level of confidence of vacating wins because we still don't know what evidence there truly is. You could be spot on there, but high level of confidence on either side is something I'm not sure about yet.
I do believe Michigan is pushing it off so that the focus on the rest of the season is letting this group of kid determine things on the field. I get both sides of liking and disliking that.
Lastly my friend, when the sarcasm is possibly not used well and then it's fired off the person is a reading comprehension weakling, why would you expect anyone to sit quietly and not respond? I'm not playing word salad or overanalyzing.. Your sarcasm just wasn't clear based on the example given. So maybe I read it wrong? ok.. or maybe you typed it not perfectly clear.. the difference is I'm not going to fire back claiming you need to go have an english class for typing as that's sort of the approach back firing off about reading comprehension you took.
We have tended to see things very similar over the years even with controversial topics and i think we see this topic similar outside of a few areas of it...it's just the "cheating" screaming that gets under the skin just a little but maybe i can learn to tone down my reaction to that phrase.. What's been most amazing over this topic is the Buckeye's comments i've enjoyed the most is Sam's.. if my world aligns closest with him and I'm confident he may agree, then the world is in weird times
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(https://i.imgur.com/qYy8uYJ.png) (https://i.imgur.com/OU0pmO8.png)
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We have tended to see things very similar over the years even with controversial topics and i think we see this topic similar outside of a few areas of it...it's just the "cheating" screaming that gets under the skin just a little but maybe i can learn to tone down my reaction to that phrase.. What's been most amazing over this topic is the Buckeye's comments i've enjoyed the most is Sam's.. if my world aligns closest with him and I'm confident he may agree, then the world is in weird times
It's a very loaded word, because "cheating" speaks to intent.
There's a famous golf incident with Patrick Reed, who is seen on video dragging sand away behind his ball in a waste area on a practice swing. For non-golfers, this would be an example of "improving his lie", which is verboten. This (along with a few other things) has caused many to call him a cheater. And he's sued them for defamation. However, I argue that the suit is groundless because while the wrongdoing can be proven, the *intent* is what makes it cheating. If it is done accidentally, it could still be a penalty but it's not cheating. It's only cheating if there is intent, and nobody except Patrick Reed can know his intent. So by definition calling him a cheater is a matter of opinion--the facts are undisputed but I'm opining that his intent was nefarious.
As the Mich fans have pointed out, sign stealing is not actually illegal. So if everyone EXCEPT Connor Stalions thought he had come by his knowledge of opposing team's signals via legitimate means, not a single person except Stalions himself is a cheater.
So OSU fans are going to ascribe nefarious intent to the actions of the entire program and they're scum. While UM fans are going to say Stalions is a lone wolf and the rest of the program is angelic. Because everyone will believe what they want to believe.
But I think HB's point is that there is a very simple rule. That Stalions broke the rule does not seem to be in dispute; there's PLENTY of evidence. The debate is about what that means to everyone beyond Stalions, including whether the rulebreaking conferred upon UM enough of an advantage that it calls the on-field results into question and thus deserves that wins be vacated.
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It's a very loaded word, because "cheating" speaks to intent.
There's a famous golf incident with Patrick Reed, who is seen on video dragging sand away behind his ball in a waste area on a practice swing. For non-golfers, this would be an example of "improving his lie", which is verboten. This (along with a few other things) has caused many to call him a cheater. And he's sued them for defamation. However, I argue that the suit is groundless because while the wrongdoing can be proven, the *intent* is what makes it cheating. If it is done accidentally, it could still be a penalty but it's not cheating. It's only cheating if there is intent, and nobody except Patrick Reed can know his intent. So by definition calling him a cheater is a matter of opinion--the facts are undisputed but I'm opining that his intent was nefarious.
As the Mich fans have pointed out, sign stealing is not actually illegal. So if everyone EXCEPT Connor Stalions thought he had come by his knowledge of opposing team's signals via legitimate means, not a single person except Stalions himself is a cheater.
So OSU fans are going to ascribe nefarious intent to the actions of the entire program and they're scum. While UM fans are going to say Stalions is a lone wolf and the rest of the program is angelic. Because everyone will believe what they want to believe.
But I think HB's point is that there is a very simple rule. That Stalions broke the rule does not seem to be in dispute; there's PLENTY of evidence. The debate is about what that means to everyone beyond Stalions, including whether the rulebreaking conferred upon UM enough of an advantage that it calls the on-field results into question and thus deserves that wins be vacated.
This is possibly the best post in this 100 pages of posts.
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https://twitter.com/RossDellenger/status/1721671013253951714?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1721671013253951714%7Ctwgr%5Ee26aa4cd413dfd5075c5e41e8ba01560e141641d%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.elevenwarriors.com%2Fforum%2Fcollege-sports%2F2023%2F11%2F142628%2Fttun-scandal-xlviii
Sad- threatening people and their families.
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Sad- threatening people and their families.
Absolutely absurd and incredibly sad. People are stupid. We can bicker here like keyboard warriors and get annoyed with each other, but people that take it to that level are terrible humans.
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Kind of interesting that this is the second time the NCAA has directly responded to what seem like Michigan leaks about an investigation.
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Jim Harbaugh, Michigan Receive Official Notice From The Big Ten (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/jim-harbaugh-michigan-receive-official-notice-from-the-big-ten/ar-AA1juzW1?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=2950b9bb11f24261fbf6e00f71e6754a&ei=22)
Seems like paperwork to me.
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Decent summary of where things stand. Fourth paragraph:
"The NCAA’s findings do not connect the in-person scouting and recording of opponents’ sidelines to Harbaugh, sources say, an absence of evidence essential to a potential lawsuit from the school and coach against the league."
https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-ncaa-revealed-michigan-findings-to-big-ten-conference-mulling-jim-harbaugh-suspension-212327599.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-ncaa-revealed-michigan-findings-to-big-ten-conference-mulling-jim-harbaugh-suspension-212327599.html)
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"sources say" is a red flag for me, maybe so, maybe no.
And just about everything I see is of that ilk.
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https://twitter.com/RossDellenger/status/1721671013253951714?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1721671013253951714%7Ctwgr%5Ee26aa4cd413dfd5075c5e41e8ba01560e141641d%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.elevenwarriors.com%2Fforum%2Fcollege-sports%2F2023%2F11%2F142628%2Fttun-scandal-xlviii
Sad- threatening people and their families.
believe the Day and his family is involved stuff was from that bum Chris Balas over at On3. Guy is such a total know nothing dweeb who just pulls sh*t from his ass and makes it up.
And anybody who threatens people over the game of football is a giant loser. It's not that serious....it's a game...
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"sources say" is a red flag for me, maybe so, maybe no.
And just about everything I see is of that ilk.
100%. "reporters" that continually run with "anonymous sources say" are nothing but mouth breathing morons that are looking for clicks. which unfortunately is like 99.99999% of mediots in today's landscape.
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this should be Michigan's punishment if found guilty by the NCAA....
https://twitter.com/BarstoolB1G/status/1721372531091751398?s=20
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this should be Michigan's punishment if found guilty by the NCAA....
https://twitter.com/BarstoolB1G/status/1721372531091751398?s=20
LoL, that is funny.
Michigan with Iowa's DC and USC's OC would win 3+ NC's in the next five years.
With Iowa's OC and USC's DC they'd be lucky to win three games in the next five years.
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this should be Michigan's punishment if found guilty by the NCAA....
https://twitter.com/BarstoolB1G/status/1721372531091751398?s=20
😂😂😂
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(https://i.imgur.com/3B3J9YW.png)
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LoL, that is funny.
Michigan with Iowa's DC and USC's OC would win 3+ NC's in the next five years.
With Iowa's OC and USC's DC they'd be lucky to win three games in the next five years.
One Buckeye Fan said "I’m all for the death penalty of Michigan but this is too far. No human being should be forced to endure that."
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One Buckeye Fan said "I’m all for the death penalty of Michigan but this is too far. No human being should be forced to endure that."
Yeah, the death penalty is one thing. Grinch as DC and Ferentz as OC would be cruel and unusual.
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https://twitter.com/davidubben/status/1721929289069744429?t=I_uPcU341XVfOMiqMiMTSw&s=19
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Considering changing my handle to "Someone named Jeff"
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Wait, it's all coming together...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQJRsyRU4AAlkPq.jpg)
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I am disappointed this fellow was apparently a Marine officer.
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Jim Harbaugh, Michigan Receive Official Notice From The Big Ten (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/jim-harbaugh-michigan-receive-official-notice-from-the-big-ten/ar-AA1juzW1?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=2950b9bb11f24261fbf6e00f71e6754a&ei=22)
Seems like paperwork to me.
Some of us think its just a PR stunt by the Big Ten. You know, to mollify the cry babies.
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It's the detail about "dozens of old vacuum cleaners appeared on his front porch" that I can't get over. Connor Stalions "...allegedly operating an appliance refurbishing business out of his home..."
If I learned a few points from the Breaking Bad Universe, one is that a business as unlikely and outdated as dedicated Vacuum Sales and Services serves as a legitimate business front to cover for something else going on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=tQftADqHbvo
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That sucks.
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It would hilarious if all this started because Jeff from Ann Arbor hired an investigative firm to follow Stalions around to see what he does with all those vacuums.
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"Stalions admitted to starting a limited liability company to sell restored items / sold many on Amazon with underwhelming results.
Several buyers complained of defective units with missing parts-that earned him a seller rating of 2.8 out of 5 stars."
If it was washers/dryers we'd have him on a laundering scheme
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It would hilarious if all this started because Jeff from Ann Arbor hired an investigative firm to follow Stalions around to see what he does with all those vacuums.
Obviously what happened is that Jeff the MSU fan hired Ryan Day's brother's friend's nephew's cousin's PI firm to investigate Stallions' HOA violations.
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Someone named Jeff is probably the mastermind behind all of this.
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"Stalions admitted to starting a limited liability company to sell restored items / sold many on Amazon with underwhelming results.
Several buyers complained of defective units with missing parts-that earned him a seller rating of 2.8 out of 5 stars."
If it was washers/dryers we'd have him on a laundering scheme
Found Stalion's Amazon seller's page for "hed_." Short for Home Essentials Distribution LLC.
https://www.amazon.com/sp?seller=A1RQ402GRQJRJW
51 reviews, 20 of them 1 star. Filter to Lifetime feedback to read all 51. They are single-sentence reads and mostly entertaining.
Scrolling down, Stalions' home address is listed.
So I checked Google Street View. Yes there is a porch but it's clean. With an image capture of May 2023, that would be well after complaints of accumulating appliances were presumably addressed.
Interestingly, in the large, street-facing front window, there are displayed TWO different warning signs - one Red & Black, one Yellow & Black - similar to below:
(https://i.imgur.com/aUiIXj2.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/D3U7TPY.png)
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(https://media.tenor.com/GgLLL9zWXdUAAAAC/lovren-dance.gif)
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https://twitter.com/Humming_birder/status/1722045050362736917?t=FuiR_CG-yxpQGs8HhVH-Vg&s=19
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Should probably make sure you haven't already promoted the LLC you now claim to know nothing about before claiming to know nothing about it
https://twitter.com/runthistrain/status/1722059474280546724?t=1oZLW4vQJWrryp1wsiuEEg&s=19
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Should probably make sure you haven't already promoted the LLC you now claim to know nothing about before claiming to know nothing about it
https://twitter.com/runthistrain/status/1722059474280546724?t=1oZLW4vQJWrryp1wsiuEEg&s=19
😳😳
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Any lone wolf or low level staffer claims are DOA at this point. Don't even deserve a response
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And this LLC.filing has led to more findings of tickets bought by the previous unknown Connor O'Dea. Jesus, Ed Martin covered his tracks better than the latest Michigan cheating scandal
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And this LLC.filing has led to more findings of tickets bought by the previous unknown Connor O'Dea. Jesus, Ed Martin covered his tracks better than the latest Michigan cheating scandal
https://x.com/Matt_Fortuna/status/1722083388805267840?t=m40Bp1eE_I7ROp_mvTIoSg&s=09
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(https://media0.giphy.com/media/MzId7vT7YOUzm/200.gif)
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Should probably make sure you haven't already promoted the LLC you now claim to know nothing about before claiming to know nothing about it
https://twitter.com/runthistrain/status/1722059474280546724?t=1oZLW4vQJWrryp1wsiuEEg&s=19
Blake Corum has had an LLC named BC2 LLC with he and his father listed as the managing members- based out of his home state of Virginia since 2021.....that proves absolutely nothing....
EVERY big-time P5 football player doing million dollar NIL deals has an LLC.....
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Any lone wolf or low level staffer claims are DOA at this point. Don't even deserve a response
that is a preposterously stupid statement...
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And this LLC.filing has led to more findings of tickets bought by the previous unknown Connor O'Dea. Jesus, Ed Martin covered his tracks better than the latest Michigan cheating scandal
Ed Martin must not have covered his tracks that great, considering the fcking FBI pinched him for running a multi-million dollar illegal gambling ring. Which is the ONLY reason Michigan ever got in trouble. If the feds never caught him, that scandal would've never broke.
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https://twitter.com/MarcGivler/status/1722099870893236562?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1722099870893236562%7Ctwgr%5E095444b40ca2c2d2d81db8ee4787f5df197288fa%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.elevenwarriors.com%2Fforum%2Fcollege-sports%2F2023%2F11%2F142681%2Fttun-scandal-lv
Maybe I am naïve, but I can give Corum the benefit of the doubt. He seems like such a solid kid, and I can’t imagine him doing some thing nefarious, at least intentionally.
But even if he didn’t know, it certainly races questions about what that other psycho was doing, and how he was possibly funneling money into his scheme.
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quick Washtenaw County property appraiser search shows the property owner of the house at 5731 Villa France is....Connor Stallions. Not this Wyoming based BC2 Housing LLC. Connor Stallions. Corum or this BC2 Housing LLC does not own that house. If it was an investment property that Corum was involved in with Stallions, the LLC would've purchased it and be listed as the owner. Every state does online incorporation and it costs $100-150 and you could put anyone's name down on the corporation you want. It's not legal but very easily done. Stallions could've just put Corum's name down. Way for everyone to just jump to conclusions though without all the facts....that totally is always the right thing to do...and this Connor Stallions freak show weirdo would totally never be the kind of guy to lie, cheat, commit fraud. Never.
The fact that this BC2 Housing LLC was formed in Wyoming raises some red flags. Why would they not incorporate in Michigan or Corum's home state of Virginia? Stallions could've been trying to use his position at Michigan and Corum's celebrity and name in Ann Arbor without Corum even having a clue, and registering an LLC half-way across the country could speak to that. Corum or his people probably aren't searching Wyoming division of corporations. Michigan/Virginia? Probably.
(https://i.ibb.co/RvCnpFJ/Screen-Shot-2023-11-08-at-6-47-04-AM.png)
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https://twitter.com/MarcGivler/status/1722099870893236562?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1722099870893236562%7Ctwgr%5E095444b40ca2c2d2d81db8ee4787f5df197288fa%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.elevenwarriors.com%2Fforum%2Fcollege-sports%2F2023%2F11%2F142681%2Fttun-scandal-lv
Maybe I am naïve, but I can give Corum the benefit of the doubt. He seems like such a solid kid, and I can’t imagine him doing some thing nefarious, at least intentionally.
But even if he didn’t know, it certainly races questions about what that other psycho was doing, and how he was possibly funneling money into his scheme.
having an inactive LLC happens frequently, people forget to renew and pay the annual report fees on time, it's not that uncommon. get back to me when it's been dissolved....
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Ohio State, Rutgers, Purdue, and Illinois cheating.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38843207/michigan-says-rutgers-ohio-state-purdue-shared-signs (https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38843207/michigan-says-rutgers-ohio-state-purdue-shared-signs)
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Ohio State, Rutgers, Purdue, and Illinois cheating.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38843207/michigan-says-rutgers-ohio-state-purdue-shared-signs (https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38843207/michigan-says-rutgers-ohio-state-purdue-shared-signs)
it's funny....Ohio State changed their signals for the game last year- something they openly admitted, and it turns out they had Michigan's signals....and STILL got their asses kicked, at home.
Gee, maybe Marcus Spears, RGIII, Jeff Saturday, Dan Orlovsky, Deion Sanders, Joel Klatt, Michael Irvin, and just about every former P-L-A-Y-E-R and not loud mouthed mediot (Steven A Smith, Paul Finebaum, Pete Thamel) that I've heard talk about this are probably right when they all laughed it off and said....the signal stealing is part of the game within the game and it doesn't give that big of advantage. Still have to block and tackle. Still have to stop what's coming. Still have to execute. PLAYERS win games. Not play calls.
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Ohio State, Rutgers, Purdue, and Illinois cheating.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38843207/michigan-says-rutgers-ohio-state-purdue-shared-signs (https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38843207/michigan-says-rutgers-ohio-state-purdue-shared-signs)
🙈🙈
I almost feel sorry for you. Your false equivalency is just more arm flailing of a drowning man.
The strategy of trying to take others down with you has many flaws- the biggest of which is that there is nothing illegal there. Nice try though.
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It's unknown whether the signal sharing between league teams violates the Big Ten's sportsmanship policy or any NCAA rules. The information passed along is not expected to impact the Big Ten's potential discipline for Michigan under the sportsmanship policy, a source said. NCAA rules do not prohibit in-game signal stealing but bar schools from off-campus scouting in advance of games.
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it's funny....Ohio State changed their signals for the game last year- something they openly admitted, and it turns out they had Michigan's signals....and STILL got their asses kicked, at home.
Gee, maybe Marcus Spears, RGIII, Jeff Saturday, Dan Orlovsky, Deion Sanders, Joel Klatt, Michael Irvin, and just about every former P-L-A-Y-E-R and not loud mouthed mediot (Steven A Smith, Paul Finebaum, Pete Thamel) that I've heard talk about this are probably right when they all laughed it off and said....the signal stealing is part of the game within the game and it doesn't give that big of advantage. Still have to block and tackle. Still have to stop what's coming. Still have to execute. PLAYERS win games. Not play calls.
Just stop MDot. You are embarrassing yourself.
Nobody believes any of what your saying.
You don’t personally attend 17 future opponents games in person, 35 times at 17 different stadiums, over 3 seasons, using 65 different people- and then get to claim it gave no advantage. Do you see how stupid that looks and sounds?
Just stop trying to defend it. It’s ridiculous.
If you want to defend the coaches by saying the didn’t know - have at it. That part is not proven and really does require more investigating.
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🙈🙈
I almost feel sorry for you. Your false equivalency is just more arm flailing of a drowning man.
The strategy of trying to take others down with you has many flaws- the biggest of which is that there is nothing illegal there. Nice try though.
I don't think Stalions did anything illegal. It does look like Stalions was on the CMU sideling for Sparty's opener which would be violation of a NCAA rule. Speaking of illegality, there was a report a few days ago that law enforcement was looking into hacked University of Michigan computers from which football data was stolen. That would be an actual crime. If the allegations in the ESPN story are true it would certainly be against the spirit of the B1G's sportsmanship policy since it amounts to the same thing. Something which many have feigned grave offense at recently in regards to Michigan's situation.
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You're all guilty
https://newsletters.yahoo.net/H/2/v60000018baecf39de90c17d6e96638858/cb4183be-f1a9-450c-8abf-c0e1887ce359/HTML (https://newsletters.yahoo.net/H/2/v60000018baecf39de90c17d6e96638858/cb4183be-f1a9-450c-8abf-c0e1887ce359/HTML)
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I don't think Stalions did anything illegal.
If he was listing Corum as owner of a company that Corum knew nothing about, probably illegal
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I don't think Stalions did anything illegal. It does look like Stalions was on the CMU sideling for Sparty's opener which would be violation of a NCAA rule. Speaking of illegality, there was a report a few days ago that law enforcement was looking into hacked University of Michigan computers from which football data was stolen. That would be an actual crime. If the allegations in the ESPN story are true it would certainly be against the spirit of advance in-person scouting since it amounts to the same thing. Something which many have feigned grave offense at recently in regards to Michigan's situation.
You’re just in denial. Advance scouting and recording is as illegal as it gets.
Have you finally come to your senses on blaming Coach Day- now that that has been debunked? The counteroffensive from the UM bubble ( media and insiders) have mostly moved on to their final strategy- try to take others down ). Or are you in that fringe group still clinging to that?
As far as other rumors- I am going to ignore them unless some evidence is presented.
Like the rumors you mentioned above, or the rumor that the NCAA and BIG have documents proving that Jay Harbaugh and Jesse Minter signed off on Stalions budget/ expenses for the advance scouting and reporting.
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🙈🙈
I almost feel sorry for you. Your false equivalency is just more arm flailing of a drowning man.
The strategy of trying to take others down with you has many flaws- the biggest of which is that there is nothing illegal there. Nice try though.
yeah, sign stealing isn't against the rules. which was my point from the motherfcking beginning.
Connor Stallions isn't guilty of stealing signs. That isn't against the rules. He's guilty- allegedly- with some pretty damning evidence- of running an ADVANCED SCOUTING ring, which is against NCAA rules- since 1994.
People are conflating sign stealing with advanced scouting. One is against the rules. One isn't.
And the NCAA rule against recording of signs ONLY forbids the recording of signals of an opposing team by another team on the sidelines in the "team area" during a game- and applies to players, coaches, and any staff on the field sidelines of said game.
There is no rule about recording from the stands vs opponents you aren't currently playing. The only rule is against ADVANCED SCOUTING- put in place in 1994, and not to prevent sign stealing. It was because the POORS were complaining that they couldn't keep up with the massive budgets of the rich helmet schools who would send staffers and scouts to every game to scout opponents.
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If he was listing Corum as owner of a company that Corum knew nothing about, probably illegal
might've also been illegally running a vacuum cleaner repair shop out of his house....definitely against HOA bylaws and might've violated local planning & zoning ordinances....
more and more that comes out about this dude....weirder and weirder he seems....
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You're all guilty
https://newsletters.yahoo.net/H/2/v60000018baecf39de90c17d6e96638858/cb4183be-f1a9-450c-8abf-c0e1887ce359/HTML (https://newsletters.yahoo.net/H/2/v60000018baecf39de90c17d6e96638858/cb4183be-f1a9-450c-8abf-c0e1887ce359/HTML)
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia1.tenor.com%2Fimages%2Ffe405e1f177fa184cbfa363acee4c220%2Ftenor.gif%3Fitemid%3D5631814&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=573599d7e99d0464e5fc9a03b88f694028bc215de429875879d59492f1668ca7&ipo=images) (https://media1.tenor.com/images/fe405e1f177fa184cbfa363acee4c220/tenor.gif?itemid=5631814)
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MDot- you may find this really hard to believe- I don’t want Michigan football to crash and burn. I would hate that.
Yes, they are the arch rival of the team I cheer for, but I have unbelievable respect for the rivalry, and I have always had tremendous respect for the Michigan football program. You have to remember I was raised in the Bo versus Woody days, before all this social media, and back, then it was about winning, but also about having great respect.
There’s an old saying, that you “measure a man by the strength of his enemies”
I have always thought the rivalry, and “The Game” were a thing of beauty, and I don’t want to see that diminished
I think the Michigan football team this year is as talented as any in the country. They don’t need any advantages and I still think they can whip just about any team.
But I just wish they would say OK, this was not the right thing for us to be doing and take accountability so everybody can just move on
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"Every coach, every executive, every leader: They all know right from wrong. Even those Enron guys. When someone uncovers a scandal in their company, I don't think they can say, 'I didn't know that was going on.' They're just saying they're too dumb to do their job!"
-Bo Schembechler
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I do not think they will crash and burn. Find it hard to believe the NCAA/B1G will death penalty and nuke a helmet TV cash cow. Those bastards LOVE money, and Michigan brings in the money. Michigan will get a punishment- because Stallions clearly broke the rules- and they can't just let it go- but it will be slap on the wrist- and not much more imo.
I do think this all just ensures that Jeem will go off to the NFL and any shot they had at getting McCarthy to come back for his senior year goes with that. They will absolutely SUCK next year because they're going to lose like EVERYBODY to the NFL draft and Jeem to the NFL- and their schedule is RIDICULOUSLY tough next year.
Michigan probably isn't going to be good again until 2026-2027 imo- provided they hire the right coach to replace Harbaugh after he leaves for the NFL and provided Jadyn Davis' commitment sticks and he's any good or they can land Bryce Underwood in '25 and he's any good.
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"Every coach, every executive, every leader: They all know right from wrong. Even those Enron guys. When someone uncovers a scandal in their company, I don't think they can say, 'I didn't know that was going on.' They're just saying they're too dumb to do their job!"
-Bo Schembechler
Ah yes, Bo Schembechler, the choir boy perfect angel and arbiter of truth and all that is righteous.
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dickless wonder/Urbz nut slurper Pete Thamel says don't expect any potential punishment from B1G today...
https://twitter.com/PeteThamel/status/1722236504813293667?s=20
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I'm content to just wait a while, the speculation seems endless, and rather boring, to me.
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Looks like denial had now switched sides
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I'm content to just wait a while, the speculation seems endless, and rather boring, to me.
yeah, I'm over it. just ready for it to be done. mediots milking the living fcking shit out of it right now for clicks and views.
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pair of 4* twin brothers from Kentucky that were committed to Michigan but flipped to Kentucky. Still in HS, got NIL deal from large car dealership in Kentucky.
Color me crazy, but giving NIL deals to HS kids and schools tampering with college players on other rosters is far more serious than some sign stealing bullsh*t. We know tampering goes on, we know NIL deals to HS kids are nothing but pay for play. Oh well. I guess buying players and tampering with other teams rosters just isn't that serious....
https://twitter.com/On3NIL/status/1722027722640138542?s=20
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Looks like denial had now switched sides
There is no denial.
if there is proof of wrongdoing- put it out there.
It changes nothing. Last gasp strategy
https://247sports.com/college/ohio-state/board/120/Contents/austin-ward-update-on-b1g-sign-sharing-219814765/?page=1
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dickless wonder/Urbz nut slurper Pete Thamel says don't expect any potential punishment from B1G today...
https://twitter.com/PeteThamel/status/1722236504813293667?s=20
I would expect dickless wonder Pettiti to issue his edict Friday night or Saturday morning.
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https://twitter.com/ZachGelb/status/1722010537326711033?s=20
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There is no denial.
if there is proof of wrongdoing- put it out there.
It changes nothing. Last gasp strategy
https://247sports.com/college/ohio-state/board/120/Contents/austin-ward-update-on-b1g-sign-sharing-219814765/?page=1
Thanks for the Buckeye denial follow up post. A buckeye fan website saying it’s not against the rules! Yep, completely different than a Michigan website saying Stallions buying tickets for people that weren’t him wasn’t against the rules.
looks like 3 more sets of CHEATERS in the league.
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Thanks for the Buckeye denial follow up post. A buckeye fan website saying it’s not against the rules! Yep, completely different than a Michigan website saying Stallions buying tickets for people that weren’t him wasn’t against the rules.
looks like 3 more sets of CHEATERS in the league.
Such a disappointing take coming from you.
can you produce one shred of credible evidence that this is against the rules? You can’t- because it doesn’t exist. Pure hopeful speculation
Can’t you just admit that what Stalions did- using 65 different people to record signal if opponents, 35 times in 17 stadiums over 3 years, was wrong?
We know from reading the bylaws that it was illegal- and common sense tells you that it is.
My god this is embarrassing for even the formerly level headed, objective fans ( you) are off the deep end.
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Thanks for the Buckeye denial follow up post. A buckeye fan website saying it’s not against the rules! Yep, completely different than a Michigan website saying Stallions buying tickets for people that weren’t him wasn’t against the rules.
looks like 3 more sets of CHEATERS in the league.
Also - this is the opposite of denial. Saying yes- this happened. Show us where it is against the rules……crickets.
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https://www.dispatch.com/story/sports/college/football/2023/10/20/ohio-state-football-alleges-it-changed-signs-before-2022-michigan-game/71256859007/#
It’s just amazing to me that Ohio State actually changed their signs before the game last year, possibly worked with other schools to share information on Michigan’s play calling and signs and their fan base is the loudest crying foul and using it as an excuse for the loss.
And if you think that random friends of stallions is crossing the line worse than big 10 coaches teaming up against a specific team, sharing what they witnesses in person, that makes it even funnier asking to show you the rules. I guess the footing has been lost on the moral ground.
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pair of 4* twin brothers from Kentucky that were committed to Michigan but flipped to Kentucky. Still in HS, got NIL deal from large car dealership in Kentucky.
Color me crazy, but giving NIL deals to HS kids and schools tampering with college players on other rosters is far more serious than some sign stealing bullsh*t. We know tampering goes on, we know NIL deals to HS kids are nothing but pay for play. Oh well. I guess buying players and tampering with other teams rosters just isn't that serious....
It is serious. And it's one of the predictions of exactly what would happen if NIL became a thing. It was always going to become pay for play. It's even more serious because it's not illegal as long as the school isn't directly involved.
This is what we saw coming. "Hey, the players are celebrities... Shouldn't they at the very least be able to get endorsement deals and profit from their fame?" Of course. But it was always going to devolve into pay for play.
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Michigan, Big Ten reach sign stealing crossroads
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38845395/michigan-big-ten-reach-sign-stealing-crossroads (https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38845395/michigan-big-ten-reach-sign-stealing-crossroads)
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Thanks for the Buckeye denial follow up post. A buckeye fan website saying it’s not against the rules! Yep, completely different than a Michigan website saying Stallions buying tickets for people that weren’t him wasn’t against the rules.
looks like 3 more sets of CHEATERS in the league.
Hey, you should be thankful! This will allow the NCAA to hammer an irrelevant program like Purdue so they can look tough, while sweeping Michigan under the rug "oh it was just a lone wolf rogue staffer who, quite frankly, is nuts" with a slap on the wrist. We can be your scapegoat because nobody cares about Purdue.
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So you do understand that “changing our signs“ is a minor tweak. That’s because the signs are so complex and sophisticated that they take months to learn so any changes that you make - in season-are going to be minor in nature and more likely related to who is the “ hot “ read when sending in signs? The players have already said this. Da wand Jones said we made some tweaks- but there is only so much you can do, in season.
Obviously, that’s why sign stealing during games while you were playing your opponent is not illegal at all. Because it’s common place and highly ineffective.
That is why when you go and do advanced scouting and recording of signs, and now have ability to watch the video repeatedly, it gives you an enormous advantage of deciphering not only the signs mean, but who, and how they select the “hot” signaler
Cultures. Exchanging information about common opponents is common place. Everybody knows that.
Why can’t you just admit that what was done by stallions is absolutely against the rules, should be against the rules, and gave an advantage- otherwise why do it for three seasons, use 65 different people to do it, and 35 games, and 17 different stadiums?
No, the shocker here is the false equivalency and the failure to just admit what happened was wrong and take accountability. Fricken sad and embarrassing.
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Hey, you should be thankful! This will allow the NCAA to hammer an irrelevant program like Purdue so they can look tough, while sweeping Michigan under the rug "oh it was just a lone wolf rogue staffer who, quite frankly, is nuts" with a slap on the wrist. We can be your scapegoat because nobody cares about Purdue.
Lol. Good post. But a Purdue won’t get in any trouble at all because they did not break any rules or do anything that is not common across the college football Landscape, Lake Michigan, obviously did.
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https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38845395/michigan-big-ten-reach-sign-stealing-crossroads
A pretty good synopsis of where it is at.
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So you do understand that “changing our signs“ is a minor tweak. That’s because the signs are so complex and sophisticated that they take months to learn so any changes that you make - in season-are going to be minor in nature and more likely related to who is the “ hot “ read when sending in signs? The players have already said this. Da wand Jones said we made some tweaks- but there is only so much you can do, in season.
Obviously, that’s why sign stealing during games while you were playing your opponent is not illegal at all. Because it’s common place and highly ineffective.
That is why when you go and do advanced scouting and recording of signs, and now have ability to watch the video repeatedly, it gives you an enormous advantage of deciphering not only the signs mean, but who, and how they select the “hot” signaler
Cultures. Exchanging information about common opponents is common place. Everybody knows that.
Why can’t you just admit that what was done by stallions is absolutely against the rules, should be against the rules, and gave an advantage- otherwise why do it for three seasons, use 65 different people to do it, and 35 games, and 17 different stadiums?
No, the shocker here is the false equivalency and the failure to just admit what happened was wrong and take accountability. Fricken sad and embarrassing.
So stallions version is cheating because it’s so complex and Ohio state teaming up is likely highly ineffective. So Ohio State didn’t have enough time to change their signs, but Michigan did at halftime versus Purdue?
don’t worry I get it. Anyone that doesn’t agree with you is sad and embarrassing.
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https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38845395/michigan-big-ten-reach-sign-stealing-crossroads
A pretty good synopsis of where it is at.
Already posted. But posted by a Michigan fan so likely you wouldn’t read it or hear it out.
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So stallions version is cheating because it’s so complex and Ohio state teaming up is likely highly ineffective. So Ohio State didn’t have enough time to change their signs, but Michigan did at halftime versus Purdue?
don’t worry I get it. Anyone that doesn’t agree with you is sad and embarrassing.
Signs deciphered by advance RECORDING are cheating. Nobody disputes that. Signs deciphered in game are not. Nobody disputes that. Why is this so hard for you to admit? It is what the rest of the CFB world already acknowledges.
What is sad has nothing to do with agreeing with me- but you know that.
what I find sad is that Michigan fans won’t just admit that what stallions did was broad, comprehensive, sophisticated, cheating, and that it should not have happened, and it gave them an advantage. It’s really simple and again when I believe the overwhelming majority of college football, media, coaches, players, and fans understand.
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whether it conferred advantage is the key unknown at this point.
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doesn't matter to me
if it was cheating, it was cheating
regardless of how much of an advantage
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I don't think the pine tar up on George Brett's bat gave him much of an advantage, but he wasn't awarded the home run, because........ rules
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It is POSSIBLE Stalions cheated, that seems certain, and Michigan didn't.
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whether it conferred advantage is the key unknown at this point.
I disagree. It’s pretty obvious- or why would you do it for 3 seasons, spending money on 35 games, hiring or asking 65 different people to video the opponents signals and paying for all that?
But it isn’t even a relevant question. It is a blatant violation of the rules.
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It is POSSIBLE Stalions cheated, that seems certain, and Michigan didn't.
He was a paid member Michigan Staff. Spin that.
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It is POSSIBLE Stalions cheated, that seems certain, and Michigan didn't.
How do you figure?
Stallions was a paid scUM staffer. If he cheated (spoiler alert, he did), then they cheated
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Signs deciphered by advance RECORDING are cheating. Nobody disputes that. Signs deciphered in game are not. Nobody disputes that. Why is this so hard for you to admit? It is what the rest of the CFB world already acknowledges.
What is sad has nothing to do with agreeing with me- but you know that.
what I find sad is that Michigan fans won’t just admit that what stallions did was broad, comprehensive, sophisticated, cheating, and that it should not have happened, and it gave them an advantage. It’s really simple and again when I believe the overwhelming majority of college football, media, coaches, players, and fans understand.
Its totally within the rules to decipher signs from video recordings obtained from non-in person scouting. To beat a dead horse the alleged violation is when a football staff member attends an opponents game. That staff member could be in the stands doing mimes and not even watching the game and it would still be a violation. Paying others with private funds to scout opponents signs goes against the spirit of the B1G or NCAA rules. It is in a grey area that could be argued as being within the rules. Earlier Michigan said it would fully comply with the NCAA's investigation and would adhere to the spirit of any potentially violated rules. But then certain ADs started to moan and piss to the Big Ten front office and BMOC Tony Petitti involved himself in this matter. Petitti insisted on a suspension for Coach Harbaugh that would violate the Big Ten's own rules. So, Michigan has gone out and retained a law firm and all bets are off. Petitti lit the fuse and is the only person that can defuse the situation and I doubt that'll happen.
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I've yet to see clear evidence Michigan benefitted. That is what I'd call cheating, if they did (and I suspect they did).
Maybe he did this and the rest of the staff didn't know about it, or declined to use the information, or told him to go pound sand. Probably? No. Maybe? Yes. Find evidence the team benefitted from this scheme. I think that evidence is all that is needed for a major bomb to happen here. If it doesn't exist, Michigan will get a minor penalty I think. If it does ...
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It is POSSIBLE Stalions cheated, that seems certain, and Michigan didn't.
It all comes down to this.
It's clear Stalions broke the rules.
It is completely possible that the rest of the staff did not know about it. If the guy presented himself as a sign-stealing expert, and the UM staff bought it, then UM as an institution is clear. If ANYONE knew how he stole the signs, UM is in trouble.
It seems simple to me.
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Signs deciphered by advance RECORDING are cheating. Nobody disputes that. Signs deciphered in game are not. Nobody disputes that. Why is this so hard for you to admit? It is what the rest of the CFB world already acknowledges.
What is sad has nothing to do with agreeing with me- but you know that.
what I find sad is that Michigan fans won’t just admit that what stallions did was broad, comprehensive, sophisticated, cheating, and that it should not have happened, and it gave them an advantage. It’s really simple and again when I believe the overwhelming majority of college football, media, coaches, players, and fans understand.
Your continued argument is most people see it your way so it has to be right. A) you can’t prove that B) that’s not a good argument. So much of society are flawed thinkers and cannot critically think. Parenting 101 is just because your friends are doing it doesn’t make it ok. But the majority is doing it so it must be ok.
Secondly, how do you know all the details? Can you share it with the world? We’d like to know how you know these details of how broad and sophisticated this was.
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I disagree. It’s pretty obvious- or why would you do it for 3 seasons, spending money on 35 games, hiring or asking 65 different people to video the opponents signals and paying for all that?
But it isn’t even a relevant question. It is a blatant violation of the rules.
Brady Quinn has talked about this ad nauseam. He says he's talked to coaches that were complaining over this and he told them point blank- I personally know the guy who steals signs for your team. He has said there are 3rd parties/scouts which go out and scout a bunch of schools and record signs and then sell their info to staffers/coaches on other schools.
Sign stealing is not against the rules. There is no bylaw against it. And AGAIN, for the 1,000,000th time- the bylaw which prohibits recording of signs applies ONLY to GAME DAY vs an opponent. Meaning...you can't have coaches/staffers/players filming the sidelines of the team they are currently playing.
There is no bylaw about recording signals from the stands vs teams you aren't currently playing. None. Nada. Zilch.
There is a bylaw which prohibits staffers from doing in-person advanced scouting. And that is the bylaw which Stallions seems to have broken. Period. This sign stealing hoopla is nonsense.
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It all comes down to this.
It's clear Stalions broke the rules.
It is completely possible that the rest of the staff did not know about it. If the guy presented himself as a sign-stealing expert, and the UM staff bought it, then UM as an institution is clear. If ANYONE knew how he stole the signs, UM is in trouble.
It seems simple to me.
I mostly agree. But- assuming nobody else knew- the illegal activity still took place.
So- the question of weather cheating took place- that is it’s own question and has been answered. How do you rectify that? (Games forfeited or vacated) And this needs to be addressed like NOW- for obvious reasons.
The question of who else knew/ signed off/ utilized is not answered. That clearly requires more time. If true- that would not be a “ rectify” but more of a “ punishment”. Too early for that IMHO
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It all comes down to this.
It's clear Stalions broke the rules.
It is completely possible that the rest of the staff did not know about it. If the guy presented himself as a sign-stealing expert, and the UM staff bought it, then UM as an institution is clear. If ANYONE knew how he stole the signs, UM is in trouble.
It seems simple to me.
Disagree with the bold. Since Stalions was a UM staff member, and violated the rules, that by definition means that the institution violated the rules. If the NCAA/B1G deems that punishment is warranted, the punishment should be at the institutional level (scholarship reduction, vacated wins, etc).
If Stalions presented himself as said expert, and the UM staff bought it and didn't know of the violation, then the other people involved (other assistant coaches and up to Harbaugh) should individually be clear.
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Hypocrisy at its finest
https://www.si.com/college/michigan/football/michigan-wolverines-football-jim-harbaugh-big-ten-ncaa-investigation-sign-stealing-connor-stalions (https://www.si.com/college/michigan/football/michigan-wolverines-football-jim-harbaugh-big-ten-ncaa-investigation-sign-stealing-connor-stalions)
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I mostly agree. But- assuming nobody else knew- the illegal activity still took place.
So- the question of weather cheating took place- that is it’s own question and has been answered. How do you rectify that? (Games forfeited or vacated) And this needs to be addressed like NOW- for obvious reasons.
The question of who else knew/ signed off/ utilized is not answered. That clearly requires more time. If true- that would not be a “ rectify” but more of a “ punishment”. Too early for that IMHO
Not sure if it's enough, but the perpetrator has been fired and is not talking.
There is also this "knew or should have known" thing that the NCAA likes to throw around. That will be a key.
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Disagree with the bold. Since Stalions was a UM staff member, and violated the rules, that by definition means that the institution violated the rules. If the NCAA/B1G deems that punishment is warranted, the punishment should be at the institutional level (scholarship reduction, vacated wins, etc).
If Stalions presented himself as said expert, and the UM staff bought it and didn't know of the violation, then the other people involved (other assistant coaches and up to Harbaugh) should individually be clear.
The individual in question has already been fired, which is the path toward institutional clearance, in my opinion.
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Look at Tennessee. Their football program was facing hundreds of NCAA violations- that investigation took 3 years- and 18 of those violations were Level I- the most serious type of NCAA violation there is.
Despite facing 18 Level I violations, the Vols avoided the death penalty, avoided any tv, CCG, or bowl bans. They got a slap on the wrist. Paid an $8 million fine (which is nothing to a helmet school), probation for 5 years, vacated wins (which not a single person actually cares about), and had a 28 total scholarship reduction over 5 years. Which totals out to 5.6 a year. Slap on the wrist.
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The individual in question has already been fired, which is the path toward institutional clearance, in my opinion.
He resigned, wasn't fired
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Hoping Michigan announces a contract extension and raise for Coach Harbaugh shortly.
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Michigan has announced it has hired Williams & Connolly LLP. One of the most prestigious law firms in the US based out of DC.
Legal battle, commenced.
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He resigned, wasn't fired
I stand corrected.
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made me chuckle...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-bLFC0WIAY4owf?format=jpg&name=small)
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Michigan has announced it has hired Williams & Connolly LLP. One of the most prestigious law firms in the US based out of DC.
Legal battle, commenced.
Most recently in the news representing Elizabeth Holmes, of Theranos fame.
Still think it's a bluff to delay things til after the season. Michigan absolutely does not want to open themselves up to discovery
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The individual in question has already been fired, which is the path toward institutional clearance, in my opinion.
Disagree. That may impact [reduce] how the NCAA approaches any penalties, but it doesn't "clear" the institution.
Institutional benefit (we can argue over how much) accrued due to the rules violations, so institutional penalties would be warranted.
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Your continued argument is most people see it your way so it has to be right. A) you can’t prove that B) that’s not a good argument. So much of society are flawed thinkers and cannot critically think. Parenting 101 is just because your friends are doing it doesn’t make it ok. But the majority is doing it so it must be ok.
Secondly, how do you know all the details? Can you share it with the world? We’d like to know how you know these details of how broad and sophisticated this was.
Nobody has disputed the following information which has been widely reported by credible, unbiased sources ( WaPo, SI). Michigan is not disputing this.
-Stalions orchestrated advance scouting of Michigan future opponents
- his bigger targets were the strongest in conference opponents. PSU 4 times in 3 years, OSU 8 times in 3 - years
- the scouting also included potential CFP opponents, including Georgia multiple times, Tennessee and TCU
- Total tickets/ games purchased- 35
- Total different stadiums- 17
-total different people used to fill those seats- 65
-100% of the seats were at or near 45-59 yard line , several rows up so opponents sideline was visible
-number of Big Ten schools who ( when asked by NCAA,) who validated these tickets purchased 12 of 13 of the other big schools
-total # of schools who supported with surveillance video of people in those seats recording entire game with cell, unknown but at least 4.
- video of Stalions on at least one UM opponent sideline taping opponent - 1 so far
- live shots of Stalions watching opponents signal’s DURING UM game, and relaying info to DC Jesse Minter and OC Sherrone Moore- unlimited
- number of people who have had the courage to come forward and document that they were hired by Stalions to record potential UM opponents- 1. ( a former Division 3 coach)
Again/ nobody from the Michigan camp including fans, and bought and paid for Michigan Media, or Michigan insiders, has even attempted this dispute any of this. Instead, they are spending all their time on the excuse list.
-Everyone does it, it was a Ryan Day, it didn’t provide an advantage, he was a rogue, employee, and a Lonewolf, everybody cheats, we’re going to burn the world down, they have a hard on for Harbaugh, they are just scared of us etc. etc. etc.
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made me chuckle...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-bLFC0WIAY4owf?format=jpg&name=small)
That is funny. Especially the Michigan integrity part.
everyone should have coaches terminated for computer crimes, using alcohol to contribute to the delinquency of a female minor a minor, and may be pedophilia, making antisemitic remarks, making racist remarks, and stealing signs.
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Hoping Michigan announces a contract extension and raise for Coach Harbaugh shortly.
Ya maybe he can then afford a bigger clip for his "Good Kid" UZI's Glock. Must be tough lugging 3 clips around campus and keeping them out of sight. No need for a Team Captain of his high esteem to almost get an ankle monitor slapped on him
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dickless wonder/Urbz nut slurper Pete Thamel says don't expect any potential punishment from B1G today...
Well if you're going to slurp nuts might as well be to guy who has won 3 NCs.As opposed to Bacon,Balas & Portnoy chowder hounds gobbling up Booger's 1-7 Bowl record
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Nobody has disputed the following information which has been widely reported by credible, unbiased sources ( WaPo, SI). Michigan is not disputing this.
-Stalions orchestrated advance scouting of Michigan future opponents
- his bigger targets were the strongest in conference opponents. PSU 4 times in 3 years, OSU 8 times in 3 - years
- the scouting also included potential CFP opponents, including Georgia multiple times, Tennessee and TCU
- Total tickets/ games purchased- 35
- Total different stadiums- 17
-total different people used to fill those seats- 65
-100% of the seats were at or near 45-59 yard line , several rows up so opponents sideline was visible
-number of Big Ten schools who ( when asked by NCAA,) who validated these tickets purchased 12 of 13 of the other big schools
-total # of schools who supported with surveillance video of people in those seats recording entire game with cell, unknown but at least 4.
- video of Stalions on at least one UM opponent sideline taping opponent - 1 so far
- live shots of Stalions watching opponents signal’s DURING UM game, and relaying info to DC Jesse Minter and OC Sherrone Moore- unlimited
- number of people who have had the courage to come forward and document that they were hired by Stalions to record potential UM opponents- 1. ( a former Division 3 coach)
Again/ nobody from the Michigan camp including fans, and bought and paid for Michigan Media, or Michigan insiders, has even attempted this dispute any of this. Instead, they are spending all their time on the excuse list.
-Everyone does it, it was a Ryan Day, it didn’t provide an advantage, he was a rogue, employee, and a Lonewolf, everybody cheats, we’re going to burn the world down, they have a hard on for Harbaugh, they are just scared of us etc. etc. etc.
And it's still yet to be determined legally if Stallions paid 3rd parties to record future opposition sidelines if that is actually clearly covered in the rules and violated them. I would agree if Stallions was on the CMU sidelines, that's cut and dry, but it's still not 100% confirmed that was him either. I think it's likely, but no confirmation it was him.
So yeah, when you scream cheater over and over, yet it's not actually determined that Stallions system actually broke the rules or it's in the gray area, people want to dig in and fight back. It's not deflection, it's simply not accepting that's it's clear as day as some vested interested media sources and rival fans are claiming. So you're bullet points aren't being argued, but what is is proof the actions are considered cheating according to the rule book.
Secondly, do you believe third parties videoing on their phones is worse that coaching staff of other schools, who are far more educated on the game, capturing all the signs and sharing them with other staffs in the conference? If Michigan staff called up Georgia last and gave them all the OSU signs, would you think that's less impactful than Georgia assistant bought a ticket for a kid to sit in the stands of the osu v michigan game to record the OSU coaches with his cell phone and ship it back to them?
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Helmet communication approved for non-CFP bowl games. Glad to hear the Buckeyes will be among the first teams to test them.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/2023/11/08/sign-stealing-ncaa-helmet-communications-sideline-tablets-in-college-football-bowl-games/71501460007/ (https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/2023/11/08/sign-stealing-ncaa-helmet-communications-sideline-tablets-in-college-football-bowl-games/71501460007/)
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Approved being the Key word there
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Just realized Antonio Pierce is the Raiders interim coach. Any thought that the NFL would reject Harbaugh over this is laughable. They might be too weirded out by him again. But they could not care less about this shit
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The individual in question has already been fired, which is the path toward institutional clearance, in my opinion.
my feeling is that the head Coach should know whats going on with his staff. many other head coaches have had serious penalties when lower level coaches have done things to disgrace the university.
there seems to be a level of something wrong happening at Michigan who is at fault has left the program (scapegoat? fall taker?) but the head coach should have known what was going on and if Jim states he didnt that in itself is enough for many universities to rethink the position.
this in my mind says a lot about Michigan University whether the Big Ten or NCAA does something or not. allowing the program to come under this much investigating(all the past inquiries included not just the spy gate) would cause most University board of Regents/ Presidents to clean house. I would also say that Jim is innocent until proven guilty but Jims boss should be having a conversation about how this could happen under Jims supervision
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my feeling is that the head Coach should know whats going on with his staff. many other head coaches have had serious penalties when lower level coaches have done things to disgrace the university.
there seems to be a level of something wrong happening at Michigan who is at fault has left the program (scapegoat? fall taker?) but the head coach should have known what was going on and if Jim states he didnt that in itself is enough for many universities to rethink the position.
this in my mind says a lot about Michigan University whether the Big Ten or NCAA does something or not. allowing the program to come under this much investigating(all the past inquiries included not just the spy gate) would cause most University board of Regents/ Presidents to clean house. I would also say that Jim is innocent until proven guilty but Jims boss should be having a conversation about how this could happen under Jims supervision
The NCAA changed it from a rebuttable presumption that the coach knew everything to a fact that the coach is responsible for everything. So that's why proving what Harbaugh did or didn't know is irrelevant.
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The NCAA changed it from a rebuttable presumption that the coach knew everything to a fact that the coach is responsible for everything. So that's why proving what Harbaugh did or didn't know is irrelevant.
How do you feel about it? I'm still undecided and not because it's Harbaugh and Michigan. If one of my guys secretly broke the law and it took down me and my family, i'd be pissed, especially if he did it very discretely. At the same time I understand accountability. Very fine line and curious your take.
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How do you feel about it? I'm still undecided and not because it's Harbaugh and Michigan. If one of my guys secretly broke the law and it took down me and my family, i'd be pissed, especially if he did it very discretely. At the same time I understand accountability. Very fine line and curious your take.
You asked for @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) 's take not mine but I'll give you mine anyway:
This position has nothing to do with Harbaugh/Michigan/the current scandal.
The big problem, IMHO, is that the NCAA isn't a court and thus lacks subpoena power. They are enforcing agreed upon rules not criminal laws. Consequently, the answer from basically every institution has been to blame a low-level staffer and protect the HC.
An example of an employee of yours (or mine, or anyone else's) is different because if an employee of yours defrauded someone (for example) the courts could and would issue subpoenas and search warrants and they would be able to determine with a reasonable degree of certainty whether or not you were behind the scheme.
Additionally, if this were a criminal issue Stallions would be in big trouble with (apparently) a mountain of evidence against him so the prototypical Prosecutor move would be to offer him either immunity or at least a reduced sentence in exchange for testimony against any higher-ups that directed his illegal activities.
In this case, Stallions is likely radioactive from an NCAA perspective anyway so his NCAA-related career is over and the NCAA has nothing to offer.
For the above reasons, I think that the NCAA policy of making the HC responsible is necessary whether you or I like it or not and I say that in the knowledge that it could be Ryan Day next time.
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And it's still yet to be determined legally if Stallions paid 3rd parties to record future opposition sidelines if that is actually clearly covered in the rules and violated them. I would agree if Stallions was on the CMU sidelines, that's cut and dry, but it's still not 100% confirmed that was him either. I think it's likely, but no confirmation it was him.
So yeah, when you scream cheater over and over, yet it's not actually determined that Stallions system actually broke the rules or it's in the gray area, people want to dig in and fight back. It's not deflection, it's simply not accepting that's it's clear as day as some vested interested media sources and rival fans are claiming. So you're bullet points aren't being argued, but what is is proof the actions are considered cheating according to the rule book.
Secondly, do you believe third parties videoing on their phones is worse that coaching staff of other schools, who are far more educated on the game, capturing all the signs and sharing them with other staffs in the conference? If Michigan staff called up Georgia last and gave them all the OSU signs, would you think that's less impactful than Georgia assistant bought a ticket for a kid to sit in the stands of the osu v michigan game to record the OSU coaches with his cell phone and ship it back to them?
First of all- the majority of screaming “ cheater” is coming from the Michigan posters here, including you now. Think about that for a minute. The University of Michigan football program is undercurrent investigation, and about to be officially under a second investigation, by the NCAA .
Please don’t be angry with everyone else because of that. Please don’t be angry with the fact that a former, now terminated employee of the University of Michigan is under FBI investigation for computer crimes. But here you guys said calling everybody else cheaters. Ok.
You ask what evidence I have that those listed items that you and nobody disagrees with our violations. Although I’d like to say” are you fucking kidding me,” I’ll just say look at my paragraph above. And ask yourself is the NCAA investigating because this could be a great area or are they already convinced that rules were broken?
Now you’re saying it might be a gray area. In other words, if there is a law and you commit a crime, do you have an out if you actually send somebody else to commit the crime in your place. I know you don’t believe that for one second you are better than that.
Your last question is easy. Sign stealing is legal on the field between two teams were playing each other at the time they are playing each other. Everybody knows this. Think about why that is? The answer is obvious. It’s because it’s very ineffective and knowledge gained on a good day is marginal.
If you go to a game, you’re not playing in and record the signs and the place that go with them. You now have an ability to spend endless hours, deciphering the information and figuring out very specifically what the play calls and signals are and who the hot signaler is.
If Rutgers, or Purdue or Ohio State went to a game and filmed Michigan’s signs, or if they film them during their own games, and then deciphered them and pass them to a future Michigan opponent- that would be heinous and an obvious violation of the rules. It would be doing exactly what Michigan is accused of doing. Just like stallions having Tennessee filmed and sending that film to South Carolina, which is what the guy who admits to filming for Stalions also admits that he did.
F, Ohio, State, Bourbon, Purdue, or Rutgers, or any other team, just shared what they were able to pick up during the game, which is completely legal, and pass it to a future Michigan opponent, not only is that not illegal. Based onwhat has been presented, but also is known to be very common place. In other words, it is a big nothing burger, on a good day, and probably with an empty bun.
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How do you feel about it? I'm still undecided and not because it's Harbaugh and Michigan. If one of my guys secretly broke the law and it took down me and my family, i'd be pissed, especially if he did it very discretely. At the same time I understand accountability. Very fine line and curious your take.
I think they thought they were trying to make their lives easier. They don't have subpoena power, so trying to prove these things, when it was obvious the coach knew was a pain. And the law of unintended consequences meant they were naturally immediately confronted with this.
I can't imagine Harbaugh knew.
But did someone higher up than Stallions know, or sure should have, yes. My BIL was a walk on at Michigan for one year, and then a student assistant for his other 3 years. All under Hoke. He said if he had even bumped into a coordinator, he would be fired. To be in their ear was a whole level above them, that even position coaches had limited ability to do that in game. I think they probably "knew" but didn't want to know, but that was probably their job to know. But honestly, if Harbaugh knew, he wasn't paying attention to the correct things.
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If Rutgers, or Purdue or Ohio State went to a game and filmed Michigan’s signs, or if they film them during their own games, and then deciphered them and pass them to a future Michigan opponent- that would be heinous and an obvious violation of the rules. It would be doing exactly what Michigan is accused of doing.
F, Ohio, State, Bourbon, Purdue, or Rutgers, or any other team, just shared what they were able to pick up during the game, which is completely legal, and pass it to a future Michigan opponent, not only is that not illegal. Based onwhat has been presented, but also is known to be very common place. In other words, it is a big nothing burger, on a good day, and probably with an empty bun.
I have so much more to add and will later tonight, but what? Maybe I have "reading comprehension." or maybe you don't really know where you stand and you're taking different sides in different paragraphs.
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I have so much more to add and will later tonight, but what? Maybe I have "reading comprehension." or maybe you don't really know where you stand and you're taking different sides in different paragraphs.
I will repeat it.
- filming future opponents signals. Illegal. For good reasons. Cheating.
- trying to learn, decode your current opponent’s signals live. Legal. For good reasons. Highly ineffective
-sharing what you know about a team with another team, if gained legally, Totally fine and incredibly common.
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I will repeat it.
- filming future opponents signals. Illegal. For good reasons. Cheating.
- trying to learn, decode your current opponent’s signals live. Legal. For good reasons. Highly ineffective
-sharing what you know about a team with another team, if gained legally, Totally fine and incredibly common.
You’re so contradictory with what you need to fit. So Stallions was illegal because it gave Michigan so much time because it was so complex and time to prepare was so important..
other teams “deciphering” and passing on is fine.. doesn’t matter about your earlier argument about the time factor. Completely consistent and it’s just me that can’t comprehend it.
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You’re so contradictory with what you need to fit. So Stallions was illegal because it gave Michigan so much time because it was so complex and time to prepare was so important..
other teams “deciphering” and passing on is fine.. doesn’t matter about your earlier argument about the time factor. Completely consistent and it’s just me that can’t comprehend it.
Apparently so.
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Michigan has sent the Big Ten a 10 page response. Comically, one of the points made was that the Big Ten has provided so little evidence it’s not possible to refute the allegations.
I think Petitti just got wacked on his little pee pee.
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Schiano, bend over and grab your ankles.
https://www.on3.com/college/rutgers-scarlet-knights/news/greg-schiano-ticked-off-rutgers-purdue-sign-stealing-michigan-ohio-state-report/ (https://www.on3.com/college/rutgers-scarlet-knights/news/greg-schiano-ticked-off-rutgers-purdue-sign-stealing-michigan-ohio-state-report/)
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Michigan has sent the Big Ten a 10 page response. Comically, one of the points made was that the Big Ten has provided so little evidence it’s not possible to refute the allegations.
I think Petitti just got wacked on his little pee pee.
I ( like everyone else ) has read the response.
Not an attorney- so can only say that I was a bit shocked how weak it seems.
It’s basically procedural. No denying that they did this. None.
just procedural
- the commissioner doesn’t have the authority to punish us. ( your not the boss of me)
-be careful about going down this path ( we are more powerful than all of you combined and the big ten- and we will burn it all down)
- just because we did this, it doesn’t mean it gave us an advantage ( it’s a stupid rule that we repeatedly broke)
- because we have a diagram of our own signals on Purdue letterhead, it shows you how it’s no big deal ( it may be cheating- but everybody does it)
-punishment this early could cause irreparable harm ( can’t you just drag this out and let us see how far our team gets, we don’t mind if we have to vacate it later, and please just ignore the harm our actions already caused to others)
- it’s almost like they had first year law students formulate their response by reading UM forums.
If I had to guess, Pettiti is breathing a sigh of relief. Was probably expecting some rebuttal of the evidence he had been given, and just got more deflection and rationalization of their rule breaking.
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Schiano, bend over and grab your ankles.
https://www.on3.com/college/rutgers-scarlet-knights/news/greg-schiano-ticked-off-rutgers-purdue-sign-stealing-michigan-ohio-state-report/ (https://www.on3.com/college/rutgers-scarlet-knights/news/greg-schiano-ticked-off-rutgers-purdue-sign-stealing-michigan-ohio-state-report/)
You’re still dreaming. I think you live in alternate reality from the real world.
nothing illegal about and in fact, it is as common. In CFB as marching bands.
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I think this is what it boils down to. I would simply accept a statement from Michigan that they are no better than any other football factory in America. No worse, but no better. And any future morality or superiority claim would result in a one year postseason ban per attempt. That's what has turned the entire conference against them. Not that anyone is scared of them. But that the team takes the field to Darth Vader claiming it's the greatest university in the world. Maybe. But that has exactly zero to do with the football team you are about to root for, or the large majority of the people rooting for them. Just accept that you are the same as Auburn, and enjoy your winning, and move along
https://twitter.com/ChrisVannini/status/1722398069323395429?s=20
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You asked for @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) 's take not mine but I'll give you mine anyway:
This position has nothing to do with Harbaugh/Michigan/the current scandal.
The big problem, IMHO, is that the NCAA isn't a court and thus lacks subpoena power. They are enforcing agreed upon rules not criminal laws. Consequently, the answer from basically every institution has been to blame a low-level staffer and protect the HC.
An example of an employee of yours (or mine, or anyone else's) is different because if an employee of yours defrauded someone (for example) the courts could and would issue subpoenas and search warrants and they would be able to determine with a reasonable degree of certainty whether or not you were behind the scheme.
Additionally, if this were a criminal issue Stallions would be in big trouble with (apparently) a mountain of evidence against him so the prototypical Prosecutor move would be to offer him either immunity or at least a reduced sentence in exchange for testimony against any higher-ups that directed his illegal activities.
In this case, Stallions is likely radioactive from an NCAA perspective anyway so his NCAA-related career is over and the NCAA has nothing to offer.
For the above reasons, I think that the NCAA policy of making the HC responsible is necessary whether you or I like it or not and I say that in the knowledge that it could be Ryan Day next time.
Pretty solid response. And for the record, I may not always like your take, but I still respect it.
PS - any chance you went to the Medina game tonight? I should have remembered to ask if you were going. I brought my two oldest and they had a blast.
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Michigan has sent the Big Ten a 10 page response. Comically, one of the points made was that the Big Ten has provided so little evidence it’s not possible to refute the allegations.
The Big Ten has better lawyers than Michigan does.
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(https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-24-2015/y14hyV.gif)
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Pretty solid response. And for the record, I may not always like your take, but I still respect it.
PS - any chance you went to the Medina game tonight? I should have remembered to ask if you were going. I brought my two oldest and they had a blast.
Thank you.
No, I didn't. I have four now but none are old enough for that, they are 4.5, 3, 1.5, 2 weeks.
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The Big Ten has better lawyers than Michigan does.
I don't think so. We'll find out in the next few days if Petitti crosses the Rubicon or not. Being the chicken shit that Petitti is I'm guessing he'll try something late Friday or Saturday morning in an attempt to delay Michigan's legal challenge and get Coach Harbaugh off the field on Saturday.
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Bruce Feldman says other teams in-person scouted, were reported to the NCAA, and the NCAA did nothing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS9O6UcTuX4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS9O6UcTuX4)
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I don't think so. We'll find out in the next few days if Petitti crosses the Rubicon or not. Being the chicken shit that Petitti is I'm guessing he'll try something late Friday or Saturday morning in an attempt to delay Michigan's legal challenge and get Coach Harbaugh off the field on Saturday.
When Mich joined the Big Ten, it gave up any rights to sue the Big Ten. Due process can be 1 minute or 500 years, and it's up to the Big Ten to set the due process time.
If the Big Ten suspends Harbaugh, what happens if he shows up on the field to coach? Is the Big Ten ready to have him arrested and escorted out of the stadium?
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I have four now but none are old enough for that, they are 4.5, 3, 1.5, 2 weeks.
Whew buddy I need a nap just reading that
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When Mich joined the Big Ten, it gave up any rights to sue the Big Ten. Due process can be 1 minute or 500 years, and it's up to the Big Ten to set the due process time.
If the Big Ten suspends Harbaugh, what happens if he shows up on the field to coach? Is the Big Ten ready to have him arrested and escorted out of the stadium?
Maybe there'll be a shoot out between the Michigan police escort and the Big Ten thugs? /s
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😂
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Thank you.
No, I didn't. I have four now but none are old enough for that, they are 4.5, 3, 1.5, 2 weeks.
Wow!! I had no idea and congrats on the recent addition. 4 terrifies me lol. Ours are 7,5 and 11 months. That’s enough. The 7 and 5 year old loved going. I have to admit, I haven’t gone to a high school event in a long time, but after last night it will be a consistent thing we do as a family.
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Burn it all down...
https://www.yalejreg.com/nc/sign-stealing-and-the-antitrust-laws/ (https://www.yalejreg.com/nc/sign-stealing-and-the-antitrust-laws/)
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Thank you.
No, I didn't. I have four now but none are old enough for that, they are 4.5, 3, 1.5, 2 weeks.
Wow, I am amazed you have any spare time at all. That's a handful and more.
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Burn it all down...
https://www.yalejreg.com/nc/sign-stealing-and-the-antitrust-laws/ (https://www.yalejreg.com/nc/sign-stealing-and-the-antitrust-laws/)
I mean, it's an argument, but there is probably a fundamental difference between restrictions on getting payers paid and regulations about the actual game of football
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How do you feel about it? I'm still undecided and not because it's Harbaugh and Michigan. If one of my guys secretly broke the law and it took down me and my family, i'd be pissed, especially if he did it very discretely. At the same time I understand accountability. Very fine line and curious your take.
Also not asked, but here's my thought.
I don't agree with a blanket statement that the head coach is culpable for everything that happens within a program. There are plenty of areas where wrongdoing can occur that a head coach can plausibly say not only that they didn't know, but that there was no way they "should have known", which is what this concept is stating. It's saying the head coach ALWAYS "should have known" what's going on everywhere.
However, I think in this case, it's something where the head coach "should have known" what Stalions was doing.
Stipulating that what we believe we know (Stalions was working with the OC/DC on the sideline interpreting opponent signs and communicating that to the coordinator before plays) is accurate, it immediately raises a ton of red flags that a coach should be trying to understand how Stalions acquired that knowledge. This is one of those areas where "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is" comes to mind. I would think that nearly any plausible explanation other than what he was actually doing of how Stalions was able to decipher opponent signal systems would immediately raise the question of "if this dude can do it via legitimate means, wouldn't EVERY team be doing the same?" After all, Stalions doesn't seem to me to have the resume of being so ridiculously smart that he's got a unicorn superpower that nobody else could replicate.
To me, it's the sort of thing where some skeezy guy approaches you in a van and has high-end speakers he's selling for $100/pair. You know those speakers retail for $500 ea. You can just accept that he's got extra inventory he's looking to unload for cheap, or you can be the adult and realize those speakers are either stolen or counterfeit. A dishonest man buys those speakers and tells himself "wow, what a great deal I just got!" An honest man walks away.
To me, this is a situation where a head coach should have known that this was too good to be true w/o breaking any rules.
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Michigan's response to the Big Ten
https://footballscoop.com/news/here-is-michigans-10-page-letter-to-the-big-ten (https://footballscoop.com/news/here-is-michigans-10-page-letter-to-the-big-ten)
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Again, nobody is saying Michigan only won because of this. But the timeline sure lines up with them getting over the hump from 10-2 to CFP. And that defense sure looks a lot different both times they were forced to face a team they didn't know in advance.
This is a useful point. Knowing how much sign stealing played into Michigan's last one or two games Vs Ohio State (see below), games which they finally overcame the Buckeyes, it's worth pointing to sign stealing as what could very well be the "it" ingredient by which Michigan made the rare jump from 10-2 to CFP. We see very few teams make this jump with any successive consistency - teams like Clemson managed it but even LSU, with the talent to usually do so, needed a talent like Joe Borrow, and that only lasted for one season.
https://twitter.com/dhookstead/status/1720085113508384784
In other news, any word from Central Michigan on whether their investigation has turned up who the suspected Sideline Stalions character was? Seems an easy thing to check? And since this occurred at Michigan State's stadium, is MSU pressuring CMU for an answer? It would've been on CMU's word who was allowed the sideline visitor's credentials?
Or is CMU just hiding beyond the term "investigation" to slow-walk everything?
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Letter from Coach Harbaugh's Attorney to the Big Ten
https://detroitsportsnation.com/leaked-10-page-letter-from-jim-harbaughs-attorney-to-big-ten/wgbrady/college-sports/u-of-m-news/11/09/2023/433589/ (https://detroitsportsnation.com/leaked-10-page-letter-from-jim-harbaughs-attorney-to-big-ten/wgbrady/college-sports/u-of-m-news/11/09/2023/433589/)
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anyone else over talking about this stuff? exhausting. how many times can you beat a dead horse? let's just wait and see what happens instead of speculate maybe?
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Not me, I'd love to see this shoved right back up Petitti's ass as well as the chicken shit ADs and coaches that scammed him. Worried about player safety...comical. This is a personal attack on Harbaugh because he's that good.
Petitti can save some face if he comes out and admits his mistake and says coach to player helmet comms will be allowed in Big Ten games immediately.
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Not me, I'd love to see this shoved right back up Petitti's ass as well as the chicken shit ADs and coaches that scammed him. Worried about player safety...comical. This is a personal attack on Harbaugh because he's that good.
Petitti can save some face if he comes out and admits his mistake and says coach to player helmet comms will be allowed in Big Ten games immediately.
it's a personal attack on Jeem imo but not because he's that good. it's because he's taken a clear stand against the NCAA on things like NIL, portal, and now talking about revenue sharing with the players. NCAA/B1G obviously don't want revenue sharing with players- you know- the people that actually generate the billions of dollars- being that they are greedy money grubbing whores. NCAA is trying to shut him the f up and get him the f out of CFB and back to the NFL imo.
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LOL. Michigan's response on the evidence provided to Michigan by the Big Ten:
"The only evidence you have provided us is:
(1) records of Stalions's ticket purchases and transfers, and those tickets' usage at games;
(2) one unsolicited tip by an unidentified person who claims to have seen someone filming the sidelines at a game, though we are not able to identify either the tipster or the person they claim was filming the sidelines, or confirm any connection to Stalions;
(3) a link to a public article that includes a now-deleted video, which we have not seen, of Stallons on the sidelines of a Michigan game, and
(4) a short video titled "UMass vs PSU video" that does not clearly show anything at all.
The evidence you have actually provided to us is insufficient to prove the violations you allege, much less to allow Michigan to dispute particular points of fact or offer mitigation."
What kind of idiots are running Policy and Compliance at the Big Ten front office? Your average middle schooler could do a better job.
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People just generally don't like Harbaugh. He got run off from the 49ers because he didn't get along with the general manager. Apparently he and Warde Manuel don't get along. The Big Ten coaches don't seem to like him. A lot of his former players leave and don't have great things to say, either.
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People just generally don't like Harbaugh. He got run off from the 49ers because he didn't get along with the general manager. Apparently he and Warde Manuel don't get along. The Big Ten coaches don't seem to like him. A lot of his former players leave and don't have great things to say, either.
this is all 100% accurate and true. Jeem is an autistic/CTE asshole weirdo. No doubt about that.
Even a guy who played for him at Stanford and hates him- Richard Sherman- is defending him over this whole sign stealing scandal- which Sherman says is BS and a witch hunt.
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First of all- the majority of screaming “ cheater” is coming from the Michigan posters here, including you now. Think about that for a minute.
You mean Ryan Day, the current best winning percentage among active coacheddagainst rank teams? Versus cheater cheater, booger eater, who hasn’t won a fucking thing yet. What’s his record against rank teams? What’s his bowl record? What’s his record in college football playoff?
Stop slurping the cheater dude. It is very unbecoming.
Now you’re grasping at straws. I’m sure the coaches and athletic directors at those 11 stadiums would strongly disagree with you.
But hey Michigan get caught cheating again, but look over there at Ohio State 😂😂😂😂😂
As much as Day lives in your head rent free- you look like a complete dufus trying to blame him for your coaching staff’s blatant cheating- especially given you have ZERO evidence to back it up.
You like the cheating? I thought more of you than that. True colors. I guess.
Agreed. But that doesn’t fix the cheating that just took place. Huge competitive advantage on the field.
Let’s face it,
Your Ann Arbor Astros and cheater cheater booger eater, are busted.
Such a stupid take.
If your signals are bad enough to be figured out on game day by the opposing team that you’re fucking problem.
But when you send people into your stadium to record your plays and signs and have plenty of time to study them ahead of time, so you clearly know what the other team is running, that is huge cheating and there’s no place for that in the game. It’s disgusting and people defending it are disgusting
Just stop. Booger eater cheater cheater has the worst winning percentage against Ohio State than Ryan does versus Michigan.
Quit defending the blatant cheating. It’s making you look like a real a-hole
Source: Bullshit.
try as you might this is not about Ohio State. This is about your team getting caught blatantly cheating. You can deflect all you want but you’re going to have to internally deal with it.
I was wrong, it's not OSU fans screaming cheater nor is it your claim of Michigan fans, it's you. This is simply from 10 pages of posts and I could keep going. You have continued to call Michigan fans delusional, dufus among many other inflammatory posts. To be honest, after reading so many, there's a lot of fair takes from many other people and some initial reaction takes when the media started flowing the story. As someone that has really enjoyed posting with you for MANY years, you should take a step back and realize that some see it different than you, which is ok. Either side can be wrong when all the details start coming out, but there's a reason most aren't accepting nor considering your take on this topic at all.
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If I was Pee Titty I'd take the tack to send people to ensure Michigan isn't cheating now. Send some people that can be on the sideline or whatever. I don't see suspending Harbaugh as something that solves any problems.
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Pathetic that some of the coaches who complained to the Big Ten that Michigan was cheating by stealing signs have themselves been cheating all along.
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I was wrong, it's not OSU fans screaming cheater nor is it your claim of Michigan fans, it's you. This is simply from 10 pages of posts and I could keep going. You have continued to call Michigan fans delusional, dufus among many other inflammatory posts. To be honest, after reading so many, there's a lot of fair takes from many other people and some initial reaction takes when the media started flowing the story. As someone that has really enjoyed posting with you for MANY years, you should take a step back and realize that some see it different than you, which is ok. Either side can be wrong when all the details start coming out, but there's a reason most aren't accepting nor considering your take on this topic at all.
Wow. you sure did spend a lot of time cutting and pasting my responses to others, in some kind of a weird attempt to falsely make it look like those were my responses to you. Meanwhile you’re not reading the other University of Michigan posters here are you? The the claim “delusional is a gross miss understatement.
You’re the one who needs to take a step back my friend. Is your memory OK? Do you remember posting yesterday? Accusing other schools of cheating? And your two UM poster buds here.
Even in Michigan’s legal response, as I pointed out yesterday, there’s no remote attempt to deny wrongdoing. It is just procedural maneuvering to delay judgment so they can play out their season.
I will say this for you again and then I’m not going to respond to you anymore because I just don’t think you’re looking at it levelheaded.
I couldn’t care less about the punishment if there is even going to be any because it isn’t going to change what already happened.
I had hoped that at least one University of Michigan fan on here would take the highroad and just come out and say :
OK what happened was wrong and should never of happened. We don’t know if others do it. That’s still being investigated but it happened for sure in our house and it shouldn’t have. We don’t know who on the staff should be held accountable because that still being investigated, but regardless, we acknowledge that this did happen, and it should never of happened.
but instead of that, I have to come on here and read every excuse and deflection in the book, including blaming another coach, who incidentally received death threats from those false accusations, and moronic posts about how everybody’s out to get us. I’m sorry, but that is delusional and there’s no other way to describe it.
thankfully, my daughter, and one other person who is a good friend —of the hundreds of Michigan football fans, I know, actually showed me that not everybody puts their personal routing interest in front of ethics integrity. I thought I would find some of that here, and especially with you, but obviously nothing could be further from the truth.
Just enjoy CFB. I sure will. This isn’t important enough to me to argue with people who have zero integrity.
It is my opinion, just mine so you can’t say anything about I’m claiming others think it - this whole fiasco stains Michigan football in a way that won’t go away for a long, long time. And the could have easily avoided that with a little transparency, instead of the deny and delay, and accuse others tactics.
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Pathetic that some of the coaches who complained to the Big Ten that Michigan was cheating by stealing signs have themselves been cheating all along.
Which coaches complained and were cheating also?
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Pathetic that some of the coaches who complained to the Big Ten that Michigan was cheating by stealing signs have themselves been cheating all along.
Take this dribble somewhere else. What you were saying is completely false and I really don’t think anyone else here that’s not a Michigan fan believes one word of it.
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Is your memory OK? Do you remember posting yesterday?
You know what.. F off.. Anyone that takes a shot at me because they know my history of having a craniotomy is truly an asshole. I'm done ever corresponding with you.
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Day and Schiano Deny Cheating
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/ryan-day-greg-schiano-deny-sharing-michigans-signals-with-purdue-in-2022-as-sign-stealing-scandal-broadens/ (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/ryan-day-greg-schiano-deny-sharing-michigans-signals-with-purdue-in-2022-as-sign-stealing-scandal-broadens/)
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I keep saying most stuff we read about this right now is unsubstantiated burfle for clicks. You have a thousand "reporters" vying for "news" who will report anything they thought they heard from some coaches' cousin's FB friend.
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You know what.. F off.. Anyone that takes a shot at me because they know my history of having a craniotomy is truly an asshole. I'm done ever corresponding with you.
Well I hadn’t even thought of that. Truly. I apologize if you read it that way. I should have remembered.
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Day and Schiano Deny Cheating
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/ryan-day-greg-schiano-deny-sharing-michigans-signals-with-purdue-in-2022-as-sign-stealing-scandal-broadens/ (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/ryan-day-greg-schiano-deny-sharing-michigans-signals-with-purdue-in-2022-as-sign-stealing-scandal-broadens/)
So in other words, they straight up said it isn’t true?
They didn’t take the Harbaugh tact of
“ I am not aware” or “ but look over there- they are doing it”
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https://twitter.com/matthewcstevens/status/1722675728762683725?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1722675728762683725%7Ctwgr%5E803f6d9dbec239b8abb99a8e4c47c453cafeb8a0%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fcollege%2Fohio-state%2Fboard%2F120%2FContents%2Fadam-rittenberg-2pm-thursday-219911259%2F%3Fpage%3D1
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https://twitter.com/matthewcstevens/status/1722675728762683725?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1722675728762683725%7Ctwgr%5E803f6d9dbec239b8abb99a8e4c47c453cafeb8a0%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fcollege%2Fohio-state%2Fboard%2F120%2FContents%2Fadam-rittenberg-2pm-thursday-219911259%2F%3Fpage%3D1
Bert calls what Michigan (allegedly, but they aren't even denying it) did "sickening, disgusting" and says we have to "uphold the integrity of the league".
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/michigan-has-allowed-football-and-jim-harbaugh-to-become-its-god-commentary/ar-AA1jCmPo
Kind of sums it up. It is what ELA has been saying for a while now.
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"We used to think of the University of Michigan as a bastion of academic excellence, as one of the nation’s premier research universities and arguably the most esteemed public university in America. Now when we think of Michigan, we think of just another sewer-dwelling, win-at-all-cost football factory that will do anything and everything in its power to win a national championship."
I completely disagree with that assertion when he uses the pronoun "we". It's bunk, to me.
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What will the B1G do?
IMHO, suspending Harbaugh is both clearly insufficient and almost completely irrelevant. All along I've tried to say "allegedly" when referring to what Stallions did but at this point it appears that we can dispense with that. The B1G presented Michigan with evidence that Stallions bought tickets to future Michigan opponents' games and that those seats were used by people who appeared to record the sidelines during the games. Both attending the games (advance scouting) and recording the signals (using video to steal signs) are violations of the agreed upon rules of the game. Michigan's response did not deny that cheating.
Michigan has to be banned from the post-season THIS YEAR. The integrity of the game is at stake. CFP spots are a finite resource. That limited resource should not be given to a program known to have cheated at the expense of some other program.
I know that the Michigan "men" here are going to think that I'm saying this because it could benefit my team but I have two answers to that:
- The integrity of the game is at issue here, that is bigger than Michigan or Ohio State or even the rivalry.
- I strongly doubt that it would impact tOSU anyway. Ohio State will either beat Michigan in which case it is a moot point or they will lose to Michigan in which case they probably wouldn't make the CFP anyway. The impact here is most likely on FSU, Texas, Washington, or Oregon. Those schools should not suffer for Michigan's cheating.
There is no reason for the B1G to jump the que and punish Michigan for prior transgressions (the 2021 and 2022 cheating) because there is no rush. The prior wins and championships that are tainted by their cheating in should be vacated but it makes no difference whether that is done this week or after the 2023 season. The only reason for the B1G to jump in is to protect the integrity of the game by prohibiting a known cheater from obtaining benefits of their cheating this year.
I think back to my boyhood when my favorite CBB team lost out on a F4 trip by getting knocked out in the E8 by a cheating team (guess who?). Nothing the NCAA did after the fact got that boy's favorite CBB team the F4 that they deserved. The integrity of the sport demands that we not allow the same thing to happen to some kid's favorite football team when we know about it in advance. Somewhere out there is a boy who roots for FSU, Texas, Washington, or Oregon and it would be an absolute travesty to allow cheating Michigan to take a CFP spot from that boy's team.
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"We used to think of the University of Michigan as a bastion of academic excellence, as one of the nation’s premier research universities and arguably the most esteemed public university in America. Now when we think of Michigan, we think of just another sewer-dwelling, win-at-all-cost football factory that will do anything and everything in its power to win a national championship."
I completely disagree with that assertion when he uses the pronoun "we". It's bunk, to me.
100%. Ranting of nothing more than a mediot retard blowhard.
Anyone who believes that nonsensical drivel also believed in the tooth fairy and Santa Clause til they were 18 and were virgins til they were 40.
Opinions and assholes. Everyone's got em. Especially stupid assholes with stupid opinions.
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What will the B1G do?
IMHO, suspending Harbaugh is both clearly insufficient and almost completely irrelevant. All along I've tried to say "allegedly" when referring to what Stallions did but at this point it appears that we can dispense with that. The B1G presented Michigan with evidence that Stallions bought tickets to future Michigan opponents' games and that those seats were used by people who appeared to record the sidelines during the games. Both attending the games (advance scouting) and recording the signals (using video to steal signs) are violations of the agreed upon rules of the game. Michigan's response did not deny that cheating.
Michigan has to be banned from the post-season THIS YEAR. The integrity of the game is at stake. CFP spots are a finite resource. That limited resource should not be given to a program known to have cheated at the expense of some other program.
I know that the Michigan "men" here are going to think that I'm saying this because it could benefit my team but I have two answers to that:
- The integrity of the game is at issue here, that is bigger than Michigan or Ohio State or even the rivalry.
- I strongly doubt that it would impact tOSU anyway. Ohio State will either beat Michigan in which case it is a moot point or they will lose to Michigan in which case they probably wouldn't make the CFP anyway. The impact here is most likely on FSU, Texas, Washington, or Oregon. Those schools should not suffer for Michigan's cheating.
There is no reason for the B1G to jump the que and punish Michigan for prior transgressions (the 2021 and 2022 cheating) because there is no rush. The prior wins and championships that are tainted by their cheating in should be vacated but it makes no difference whether that is done this week or after the 2023 season. The only reason for the B1G to jump in is to protect the integrity of the game by prohibiting a known cheater from obtaining benefits of their cheating this year.
I think back to my boyhood when my favorite CBB team lost out on a F4 trip by getting knocked out in the E8 by a cheating team (guess who?). Nothing the NCAA did after the fact got that boy's favorite CBB team the F4 that they deserved. The integrity of the sport demands that we not allow the same thing to happen to some kid's favorite football team when we know about it in advance. Somewhere out there is a boy who roots for FSU, Texas, Washington, or Oregon and it would be an absolute travesty to allow cheating Michigan to take a CFP spot from that boy's team.
:043:
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Bert calls what Michigan (allegedly, but they aren't even denying it) did "sickening, disgusting" and says we have to "uphold the integrity of the league".
Oh gee if that hideous fatfck cocks*cking waste of space disgusting piece of human sh*t BERT says it, it must be true! GTFO. BERT is a fat stupid asshole who can go have a heart attack and go fck himself.
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maybe Lane Kiffin will take some media heat off Jeem....good job Lane!
https://twitter.com/FOS/status/1722667736227021054?s=20
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by the way I agree with Lane....dumbass soft pussy ass kid needed an ass chewing. just that you know how the media is....especially when it comes to things like "mental health" and "gender" and of course race.
(https://media.tenor.com/zch9CSriXJoAAAAC/fuel-fire.gif)
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Also not asked, but here's my thought.
I don't agree with a blanket statement that the head coach is culpable for everything that happens within a program. There are plenty of areas where wrongdoing can occur that a head coach can plausibly say not only that they didn't know, but that there was no way they "should have known", which is what this concept is stating. It's saying the head coach ALWAYS "should have known" what's going on everywhere.
However, I think in this case, it's something where the head coach "should have known" what Stalions was doing.
Stipulating that what we believe we know (Stalions was working with the OC/DC on the sideline interpreting opponent signs and communicating that to the coordinator before plays) is accurate, it immediately raises a ton of red flags that a coach should be trying to understand how Stalions acquired that knowledge. This is one of those areas where "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is" comes to mind. I would think that nearly any plausible explanation other than what he was actually doing of how Stalions was able to decipher opponent signal systems would immediately raise the question of "if this dude can do it via legitimate means, wouldn't EVERY team be doing the same?" After all, Stalions doesn't seem to me to have the resume of being so ridiculously smart that he's got a unicorn superpower that nobody else could replicate.
To me, it's the sort of thing where some skeezy guy approaches you in a van and has high-end speakers he's selling for $100/pair. You know those speakers retail for $500 ea. You can just accept that he's got extra inventory he's looking to unload for cheap, or you can be the adult and realize those speakers are either stolen or counterfeit. A dishonest man buys those speakers and tells himself "wow, what a great deal I just got!" An honest man walks away.
To me, this is a situation where a head coach should have known that this was too good to be true w/o breaking any rules.
You've had really good takes on this topic to be honest. I think there's only 1 of 3 realities in this situation:
1) Stallions came to harbaugh or parts of the coaching staff a couple years ago, outlined everything he wanted to do, got full support. Program helped setup the cover. When this came about, they distanced themselves immediately and he will be the scapegoat as they try to avoid the penalties. They're all guilty and crossed the line.
2) Stallions came to the staff and said he's a master decoder of signs. He claims with technology and broadcasts nowadays, he found a way to watch all the videos, analyze signs and provide an edge no one else has. They have no idea he is going or paying someone to be the one recording everything and they thought this kid just found an edge no one else had every thought of because of his Navy background.
3) They not sure exactly how Stallions does it, they know something is being down they probably don't want to know about, so they don't dig in further because after they looked into it, they felt it was somewhat of a gray area anyways. No serious consideration of future events believing that so many programs are attempting to steal signs, so why would they be singled out, even though there was some red flags, which is why they didn't want to know more.
Could be more options than that, but for me those are the most likely and I think 1 deserves the harshest penalty. 3 still deserves penalty.. Will there be any proof that gives us confidence in where it was? Not likely.. Will be interesting to see how it plays out, but I think the only way your description doesn't line up is if it's #2. It's possible, but I have no idea what's most likely at this point.
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The B1G presented Michigan with evidence that Stallions bought tickets to future Michigan opponents' games and that those seats were used by people who appeared to record the sidelines during the games. Both attending the games (advance scouting) and recording the signals (using video to steal signs) are violations of the agreed upon rules of the game.
It's unclear whether the prohibition on videotaping an opponent only applies during the game you're playing against that opponent.
But either way, it's immaterial. Advance in-person scouting is verboten whether you utilize video or not.
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Michigan has to be banned from the post-season THIS YEAR. The integrity of the game is at stake. CFP spots are a finite resource. That limited resource should not be given to a program known to have cheated at the expense of some other program.
I know that the Michigan "men" here are going to think that I'm saying this because it could benefit my team but I have two answers to that:
- The integrity of the game is at issue here, that is bigger than Michigan or Ohio State or even the rivalry.
- I strongly doubt that it would impact tOSU anyway. Ohio State will either beat Michigan in which case it is a moot point or they will lose to Michigan in which case they probably wouldn't make the CFP anyway. The impact here is most likely on FSU, Texas, Washington, or Oregon. Those schools should not suffer for Michigan's cheating.
Man is that a stretch. How about integrity of humanity and not punishing people before proper due diligence and discovery of all the facts are given proper time. There's nowhere near enough proof that this should be the reality. It's still not adequately determined if third parties in the stands videoing future opponents is even violation of the rules, which so much of the "death penalty" outcome would depend on. If that's him at CMU, that's a huge problem yet that hasn't been 100% proven yet either. Sure looks like him, but concrete proof isn't there.
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But either way, it's immaterial. Advance in-person scouting is verboten whether you utilize video or not.
By staff. What if it's not staff?
Trust me, I'm not saying it's right, but I'm not sure it's a violation of the written rule either. I could be wrong there and certainly open to better legal feedback of the breakdown of the rules, but from what i've seen, it's a somewhat vague area of the rules. Doesn't make it right either.
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You've had really good takes on this topic to be honest. I think there's only 1 of 3 realities in this situation:
1) Stallions came to harbaugh or parts of the coaching staff a couple years ago, outlined everything he wanted to do, got full support. Program helped setup the cover. When this came about, they distanced themselves immediately and he will be the scapegoat as they try to avoid the penalties. They're all guilty and crossed the line.
2) Stallions came to the staff and said he's a master decoder of signs. He claims with technology and broadcasts nowadays, he found a way to watch all the videos, analyze signs and provide an edge no one else has. They have no idea he is going or paying someone to be the one recording everything and they thought this kid just found an edge no one else had every thought of because of his Navy background.
3) They not sure exactly how Stallions does it, they know something is being down they probably don't want to know about, so they don't dig in further because after they looked into it, they felt it was somewhat of a gray area anyways. No serious consideration of future events believing that so many programs are attempting to steal signs, so why would they be singled out, even though there was some red flags, which is why they didn't want to know more.
Could be more options than that, but for me those are the most likely and I think 1 deserves the harshest penalty. 3 still deserves penalty.. Will there be any proof that gives us confidence in where it was? Not likely.. Will be interesting to see how it plays out, but I think the only way your description doesn't line up is if it's #2. It's possible, but I have no idea what's most likely at this point.
Right. For the most part we agree.
Obviously #1 is horrible all around. And that could be uncovered if there is evidence of Michigan reimbursing Stalions for the game tickets or something like that.
#3 is IMHO a lack of institutional control thing. It's not THAT much better than #1, because you "should have known" there was something nefarious but you didn't really decide to look into it so you maintain plausible deniability.
#2 is the only way the UM brass gets around this. But that presupposes they did their due diligence to investigate what he was doing, and that Stalions is just that effective of a con man that he could actually snow them on it being legitimate. It seems a little incredible, but anyone who has a 600 page Michigan Manifesto is probably the exact sort of person who might be able to pull that off.
Bear in mind I don't believe there is any gray area in the advance in-person scouting ban. I don't think there's a gray area where a staffer buying tickets and having people do it on his behalf is defensible as a sort of thing like this:
(https://media.tenor.com/izGd8P7e2lAAAAAC/george-costanza-was-that-wrong.gif)
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I think Petitti just got wacked on his little pee pee.
Kind of reminds you of Booger on a sleep over doesn't it?
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Bear in mind I don't believe there is any gray area in the advance in-person scouting ban. I don't think there's a gray area where a staffer buying tickets and having people do it on his behalf is defensible as a sort of thing like this.
This.
SM, note that I'm comparing the DEFENSE, not the crime. This defense, to me, is like hiring a hit man to kill your wife then saying "I'm not guilty, I didn't personally pull the trigger."
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Bear in mind I don't believe there is any gray area in the advance in-person scouting ban. I don't think there's a gray area where a staffer buying tickets and having people do it on his behalf is defensible as a sort of thing like this:
(https://media.tenor.com/izGd8P7e2lAAAAAC/george-costanza-was-that-wrong.gif)
Lol. The Seinfeld gif is amazing!!
I think the part you mentioned is the only area my current stance rested in a slightly different place. Could admittedly be homerism.
There’s also laws out there I disagree with from a moral place, but my moral standard doesn’t mean a legal line was crossed. That’s where I’m sort of sitting back to see how that part plays out. I don’t think sending guys to video thst aren’t staff is right, but it’s still a little fuzzy if it was a true violation of the rule.
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I think the part you mentioned is the only area my current stance rested in a slightly different place. Could admittedly be homerism.
There’s also laws out there I disagree with from a moral place, but my moral standard doesn’t mean a legal line was crossed. That’s where I’m sort of sitting back to see how that part plays out. I don’t think sending guys to video thst aren’t staff is right, but it’s still a little fuzzy if it was a true violation of the rule.
I don't think it's fuzzy at all.
If the activity is directed by Michigan staff, it effectively makes anyone who engages in it an agent of the institution.
There are potentially gray areas if someone does this WITHOUT direction from Michigan staff. But that's not the case here.
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https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1722752235010982276
Toms Mars (Harbaugh's attorney) copying MGoBlog posts in his letter to the Big Ten. This is objectively the best scandal.
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Harbaugh in the hands of MGoBlogs finest
https://twitter.com/maxwellklitzke/status/1722756372524081370?s=20
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https://twitter.com/DarkoStateNews/status/1717157516268761191?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1717157516268761191%7Ctwgr%5E1b73fb4ceb4913b4ef3282a2b9e5b3bd5c0dddc6%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.elevenwarriors.com%2Fforum%2Fcollege-sports%2F2023%2F11%2F142734%2Fttun-scandal-lxv
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I don't think it's fuzzy at all.
If the activity is directed by Michigan staff, it effectively makes anyone who engages in it an agent of the institution.
There are potentially gray areas if someone does this WITHOUT direction from Michigan staff. But that's not the case here.
and the money coming from Michigan staff
tickets, travel expenses, perhaps pay per game or per hour
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https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/columnist/dan-wolken/2023/11/09/big-ten-tony-petitti-michigan-punishment-sign-stealing/71520615007/
And the response from Michigan warning against a Harbaugh punishment, including a 10-page letter that became public on Wednesday filled with misdirection and weaselly, legalistic sleight-of-hand, makes a mockery of any functioning adult’s ability to add two plus two”
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https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1722752235010982276
Toms Mars (Harbaugh's attorney) copying MGoBlog posts in his letter to the Big Ten. This is objectively the best scandal.
Doesn’t this motivate you? What if we step our game up here and someone copies our takes? Let’s go!!! We can do this!
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Doesn’t this motivate you? What if we step our game up here and someone copies our takes? Let’s go!!! We can do this!
(https://i.gifer.com/5xd3.gif)
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Green,Dinnich and Pawl chime in pretty decent
https://youtu.be/Aw7FMmgDml0
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Finebomb has been crazy for decades
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Occasionally, I check out Channel 611 which for us is SECN to see if they are replaying some CFB game of yore. And I get his show. I might listen a few minutes just for fun, I often can't understand his callers, he seemingly can. He handles them fairly well, usually.
As with many "personalities", he has to be, well, public, in the public eye, and that means saying stuff that is pretty radical at times. Maybe it's his position or not.
It's weird to have what obviously is a radio call in show on TV though.
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Oh gee if that hideous fatfck cocks*cking waste of space disgusting piece of human sh*t BERT says it, it must be true! GTFO. BERT is a fat stupid asshole who can go have a heart attack and go fck himself.
This is a serious question. Can you replay to a post you disagree without using some sort of name calling? Whether it is about the poster or another person referred to in the post you insist on name calling. While it is not technically an Ad Hominen argument, it causes me and I am sure others to just dismiss what you have to say.
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Green,Dinnich and Pawl chime in pretty decent
https://youtu.be/Aw7FMmgDml0
Pretty clear Finebalm did not read Michigan's response. Michigan's response clearly centered around Petitti not following the Big Ten's own rules.
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https://twitter.com/CFBHeather/status/1722955205510119602?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Who knows if true. If it is my guess is a 3 pronged “ announcement “. :
- A strongly worded letter about the integrity of the game, including a heartfelt apology to the University of Michigan and Jim Harbaugh
-A non-public Hallmark card saying can we be friends again?
-an arrest warrant for Ryan Day.
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https://twitter.com/CFBHeather/status/1722955205510119602?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Who knows if true. If it is my guess is a 3 pronged “ announcement “. :
- A strongly worded letter about the integrity of the game, including a heartfelt apology to the University of Michigan and Jim Harbaugh
-A non-public Hallmark card saying can we be friends again?
-an arrest warrant for Ryan Day.
this dumb c*nt, that bald penis with elephant ears Finebaumb and screaming Steven Asshole Smith are literally the worst....and ESPN wonders why it's dying....your "talent" sucks....
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This is a serious question. Can you replay to a post you disagree without using some sort of name calling? Whether it is about the poster or another person referred to in the post you insist on name calling. While it is not technically an Ad Hominen argument, it causes me and I am sure others to just dismiss what you have to say.
It does in my case anyway, coupled with the needless profanity. For me, anyone who "spices up" their language constantly with profanity is rarely worth a listen. I avoid them. whatever.
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it's a personal attack on Jeem imo but not because he's that good. it's because he's taken a clear stand against the NCAA on things like NIL, portal, and now talking about revenue sharing with the players. NCAA/B1G obviously don't want revenue sharing with players- you know- the people that actually generate the billions of dollars- being that they are greedy money grubbing whores. NCAA is trying to shut him the f up and get him the f out of CFB and back to the NFL imo.
Agree with you on the NCAA's motivation and well as some serious animus towards Harbaugh. However, the motivation of the Big Ten ADs and coaches is to hobble Michigan by driving Harbaugh out of the league. They want if to go back to the way it was prior to 2015.
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This is a serious question. Can you replay to a post you disagree without using some sort of name calling? Whether it is about the poster or another person referred to in the post you insist on name calling. While it is not technically an Ad Hominen argument, it causes me and I am sure others to just dismiss what you have to say.
I don't believe I've ever called another poster a name here. Honestly wouldn't do that.
I will however continue to call fat pieces of shit like BERT and retards in the media as many names as much as I want. This is a free country. First amendment baby. This isn't gay ass Canada or pussy ass Europe. This is 'MERICA brother. You are free not to read it or respond if you don't like it.
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Agree with you on the NCAA's motivation and well as some serious animus towards Harbaugh. However, the motivation of the Big Ten ADs and coaches is to hobble Michigan by driving Harbaugh out of the league. They want if to go back to the way it was prior to 2015.
could be that, but it's also what MaxSam stated- none of them like Jeem. And it's not just because he's been winning. They just don't like him and never have. Jeem is a weirdo asshole. I don't think very many people like him.
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It's unclear whether the prohibition on videotaping an opponent only applies during the game you're playing against that opponent.
But either way, it's immaterial. Advance in-person scouting is verboten whether you utilize video or not.
it's not unclear. it's very clear. the rules state the video taping only applies to game day vs the team you are playing.
Advance in-person scouting is forbidden. And other teams have been caught doing it and been reported for it- and NCAA has done very little about it in the past. Because: it's not that big of a deal.
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https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1722752235010982276
Toms Mars (Harbaugh's attorney) copying MGoBlog posts in his letter to the Big Ten. This is objectively the best scandal.
Tom Mars posts on MGoBlog.....confirmed.
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I don't think very many people like him.
Jim Harbaugh is hugely popular among Michigan fans and alumni.
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Jim Harbaugh is hugely popular among Michigan fans and alumni.
he wasn't that popular with them ike 3 years ago.....lot of those people wanted him fired. but those people will love any Michigan coach so long as he's winning. and Jeem been a'winning lately.
can guarantee you most people in the cfb media, most B1G/P5 coaches & staffers....don't like the guy. at all.
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Survey Results: Most Michigan fans believe Harbaugh will not be coaching in Ann Arbor in 2024 - Maize n Brew (https://www.maizenbrew.com/2023/10/28/23933087/survey-results-michigan-wolverines-college-football-jim-harbaugh-ncaa-investigation-sign-stealing)
Survey: Jim Harbaugh is more popular than Nick Saban among millennial males (saturdaytradition.com) (https://saturdaytradition.com/michigan-football/harbaugh-popular-saban/)
The survey is from 7 years back.
Will it continue to push Michigan’s brand forward on and off the field? Only time will tell. Whether or not he can ride Michigan’s momentum and get the program its first conference title in 12 years could play a big part in that.
For now, however, Harbaugh is as popular as anyone in the sport.
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no one like Nick either
besides a few Bamers
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I don't believe I've ever called another poster a name here. Honestly wouldn't do that.
I will however continue to call fat pieces of shit like BERT and retards in the media as many names as much as I want. This is a free country. First amendment baby. This isn't gay ass Canada or pussy ass Europe. This is 'MERICA brother. You are free not to read it or respond if you don't like it.
I am in Florida too. We absolutely have to have a beer some day. 😂
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Some of these OSU and MSU fans are just as delusional.
Just the thought of Michigan in trouble is
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RSsTnfqTfPg
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https://twitter.com/ChrisVannini/status/1722987952228184145?t=tyjdfdKWrQ6EQ8kL7PcK2A&s=19
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B1G can’t suspend Jeem right before he’s set to get on a plane and less than 24 hrs before he’s suppose to play a game imo.
If you’re gonna suspend him, gotta wait til next week imo.
If he does get suspended that’s my guess…they’ll try to suspend him for Maryland & OSU and possibly the B1GCCG should Michigan make it there.
Have heard that TV execs are heavily pressuring commish Pee Pee boy to not suspend Jeem at all. Those guys usually get their way….
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Jim Harbaugh is hugely popular among Michigan fans and alumni.
You enjoying your stroll thru the land of make believe? Certainly not 3 yrs ago - had it not been for the softies up north ducking out he'd probably be gone.And Back in '07 when at Stanford Jeem called out UofM on their Academics. I don't recall those over at MGO or Schembechler Hall raising any hallelujahs
https://www.mercurynews.com/2007/08/02/michigan-players-coach-lash-out-at-harbaugh/
https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2007/08/03/harbaugh-takes-dig-at-his-alma-mater/
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Have heard that TV execs are heavily pressuring commish Pee Pee boy to not suspend Jeem at all. Those guys usually get their way….
Pee boy, really? what's next I'm rubber your glue - Booger is responsible for what does/doesn't happen with his staff. Pee boy would be the lads your leader was sleeping with.TV execs don't deal with his horseshit annually
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https://twitter.com/PeteThamel/status/1723075635185373448?t=XAfPCP9IfIgNMHYkEr8jNg&s=19
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So the appearance of a suspension without actually having one
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So the appearance of a suspension without actually having one
Yes. Sounds like a compromise. Big ten can say the “ took action “ and Michigan can move forward in pretty normal fashion. Harbaugh doesn’t call plays during games.
The stupid UM fans are angry, but the smart ones realize this is not even a slap on the wrist.
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The Big Ten is expected discipline Michigan???
I'm not the best with typing and grammar and don't always proofread my posts here, but..........
I'm not makin $$$
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Have to be first, no time to grammar check
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https://bigten.org/documents/2023/11/10//Correspondence_from_conference_to_institution_dated_Nov_10_2023.pdf?id=9450
The letter from the big 10 to the University of Michigan.
- Some summarizing points:
-No more “due process” is needed to understand that the cheating did take place. Overwhelming evidence already exists.
-an extreme violation of the sportsmanship policy of the conference
-Although we understand, a Harbaugh is not directly connected, that is still being investigated, and is overwritten by the fact that he is the face of the football program. This is not a penalty of him, but of the program.
-The evidence we received from the NCAA, is not a normal process, but they were so concerned about the wide ranging, long-term fraud, comprehensive planning around this breach of rules that they felt it had certain impact on this season and Therefore past the evidence to us
- they pretty much went through the UM response they received, point by point, and debunked them
- they openly discuss the specific evidence they have- all the stuff we’ve been hearing has been real and nit rumor ( advance scouting/ video taping for 3 years)
- they really smash the ( and they actually use these words) @ look, everyone is doing it “
-they Really smash the rush to judgment claim- and reveal that UM actually got to see all of that evidence
-some of the evidence came directly from the offices of the SEC
-The NCAA investigation will continue with haste because the NCAA feels that it impacted not onlyprior seasons, but this season
Lastly- he finds UMs response offensive and assured UM that he does in fact have the authority to level this punishment and has the support of the executive committee ( other schools)
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https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38864724/sources-big-ten-ban-michigan-jim-harbaugh-field
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Big Ten levies last minute suspension of Coach Harbaugh, as an institutional penalty, for the remainder of the season. Waiting to see if Michigan gets an injunction.
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so is everyone happy?
suspension is actually nothing now a days. a head set and a TV he can add anything he wants into the game
the outsiders think ok the bigten did something
it will be interesting to see what the NCAA does when they get to doing what they do
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Big Ten levies last minute suspension of Coach Harbaugh, as an institutional penalty, for the remainder of the season. Waiting to see if Michigan gets an injunction.
Won’t try if they are smart. If you read the letter from the commissioner, which I have attached up thread, you will see that the evidence is extremely overwhelming, and this penalty, for all intents and purposes is a non-penalty. Michigan gets to keep playing out their season.
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so is everyone happy?
suspension is actually nothing now a days. a head set and a TV he can add anything he wants into the game
the outsiders think ok the bigten did something
it will be interesting to see what the NCAA does when they get to doing what they do
Based on the letter Pettiti wrote ( attached up thread) I wouldn’t be looking forward to the NCAA
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No guarantee either way. Best to clip Petitti for over stepping his authority and not following Big Ten rules.
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so is everyone happy?
suspension is actually nothing now a days. a head set and a TV he can add anything he wants into the game
I'd really be happy if Jim tried the headset communication to the sideline and it was a set up and he was busted red handed.
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https://twitter.com/ByAZuniga/status/1723082723948929103?s=20
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B1G letter is a joke. The intentional chicken shit timing alone is likely enough to get a temporary restraining order.
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Michigan has already said they will seek an injunction.
Given this:
The Conference is highly concerned about the University’s statements in its November 8 response that it “has not yet had an opportunity to review almost any of the evidence” and that “[f]rom what we can tell, your [notice] largely relies on rumor.” Univ. Resp. at 1, 7. We know from the evidence provided to the Conference by the NCAA on November 9 that the University had been provided the Master Spreadsheet, numerous other corroborating documents, photographs, and videos, and significant interview recordings, all of which confirm the existence of the impermissible scheme. This includes, as early as October 31 and November 1, at least three University officials attending NCAA interviews during which details of the impermissible scheme were revealed. That knowledge preceded the above-referenced November 2 call with the NCAA, in which the University participated, during which the NCAA stated it knew and could prove the existence of the impermissible scheme.
We assume the University’s first comment did not mean that it and its counsel had not taken the time to review the documents and other information upon receiving them. The University appears to suggest that imposition of discipline is inappropriate because the University claimed it had seen almost no evidence. But given the extensive evidence the University was in fact provided by the NCAA, it cannot possibly be true that the University had not seen “almost any of the evidence.” The evidence the University had should have allowed it to determine for itself the clear basis for concluding that the impermissible scheme occurred. And the combination of (i) the extensive evidence the University had, and (ii) the Conference’s reference in its November 4 notice to specific categories of evidence that it had reviewed surely allowed the University to know that the Conference was not “largely rel[ying] on “rumor.”
It’s not the smart play.
it is really a non penalty given the evidence.
Michigan and all of their fans, media members, insiders, and Talking Heads did a great job of trying to control the narrative and throw a lot of other”What about isms” out there to change the narrative
it was actually a very effective strategy, but I think they’re over playing that hand and doubling down now, because they don’t like the fact that the commissioners letter basically put all of their talking points into a ditch. I think they’re too worried about controlling the narrative.
They get to keep on playing and basically Keith Harbaugh so I don’t know why they would want to fight that
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https://twitter.com/dennisdoddcbs/status/1723071921917448200?s=20
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Man Desmond needs to be quiet- he continues to make such a fool of himself.
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Michigan Head Coach Connor Stalions
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Statement from the University of Michigan: <a href="https://t.co/QcYzBZkXPn">pic.twitter.com/QcYzBZkXPn</a></p>— Nicole Auerbach (@NicoleAuerbach) <a href="https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/1723088070197510465?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 10, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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Man Desmond needs to be quiet- he continues to make such a fool of himself.
When has that ever stopped him before?
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They want if to go back to the way it was prior to 2015.
Ya if you mean 3 teams not getting jumped in the tunnel of 7 home games,brawl on the field and gun toting team captains walking because their law professor happens to be the county prosecutor then yes. I mean who would possibly suggest a program has gone rogue and not in a good way.Dripping with integrity they are
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I have been quiet on the Michigan situation BUT NO longer.I was closer to Jim Harbaugh over the last three years than anyone except his wife and kids.if Jim knew I would have known. I didn’t know and neither did he. I stake my reputation on it.Stop whining and get a better team</p>— Biff poggi (@BiffPoggi) <a href="https://twitter.com/BiffPoggi/status/1723053325556351324?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 10, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Statement from the University of Michigan: <a href="https://t.co/QcYzBZkXPn">pic.twitter.com/QcYzBZkXPn</a></p>— Nicole Auerbach (@NicoleAuerbach) <a href="https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/1723088070197510465?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 10, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Yes- I already posted that. I think UMs odds of finding a friendly judge around Ann Arbor are extremely good. In fact, I would be surprised if they didn’t have it lined up already.
Now it’s just silly. The penalty assessed, means nothing but symbolism, and if they get the injunction, it will be nothing but symbolism.
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I have been quiet on the Michigan situation BUT NO longer.I was closer to Jim Harbaugh over the last three years than anyone except his wife and kids.if Jim knew I would have known. I didn’t know and neither did he. I stake my reputation on it.Stop whining and get a better team</p>— Biff poggi (@BiffPoggi) <a href="https://twitter.com/BiffPoggi/status/1723053325556351324?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 10, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
He isn’t a homer😂😂😂😂
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Someone suggested Harbaugh go to Columbus and at least watch the OSU-MSU game with Stallions' unused tickets
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Coach Harbaugh needs to wear a “Hi Tony” head band at the game tomorrow.
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Man Desmond needs to be quiet- he continues to make such a fool of himself.
https://twitter.com/_blue42/status/1723048441700311515?t=eBjJmzTmBcDCZXrRspU5EA&s=19
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I have been quiet on the Michigan situation BUT NO longer.I was closer to Jim Harbaugh over the last three years than anyone except his wife and kids.if Jim knew I would have known. I didn’t know and neither did he. I stake my reputation on it.Stop whining and get a better team</p>— Biff poggi (@BiffPoggi) <a href="https://twitter.com/BiffPoggi/status/1723053325556351324?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 10, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
The Gospel according to Biff absolutely fetching.Ignorance of the law is no excuse
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So ESPN reported on the suspension before the Big Ten even notified Michigan? Say what you will about the result the issue, but it being communicated to media first is absolute bullshit.
Imagine a trial where the defendant was informed after national media. As a conference, Big Ten look stupid.
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So ESPN reported on the suspension before the Big Ten even notified Michigan? Say what you will about the result the issue, but it being communicated to media first is absolute bullshit.
Imagine a trial where the defendant was informed after national media. As a conference, Big Ten look stupid.
Agree. That is BS.
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Yeah, bad look
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https://twitter.com/a_zinger/status/1723086163114864936?t=UQFbnyZHAfxA1k3jxpOz9Q&s=19
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Hey Big 10 conference...now yous can't leave <a href="https://t.co/qD1yVZlxLO">pic.twitter.com/qD1yVZlxLO</a></p>— Dave Portnoy (@stoolpresidente) <a href="https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1723130022712549644?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 11, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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https://twitter.com/TonyPaul1984/status/1723143919238541524?t=pqhLEiDoCbClnDFxkSy_jw&s=19
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https://twitter.com/TonyPaul1984/status/1723143919238541524?t=pqhLEiDoCbClnDFxkSy_jw&s=19
Lol. Shocking I tell you….
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(https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/627/96/12096627.jpeg)
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I luv it
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B1G letter is a joke. The intentional chicken shit timing alone is likely enough to get a temporary restraining order.
From a Michigan alum judge in Ann Arbor, probably.
From a legitimate judicial officer, no way.
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https://twitter.com/TonyPaul1984/status/1723143919238541524?t=pqhLEiDoCbClnDFxkSy_jw&s=19
Ok that might be as equally absurd as how Big Ten handled the communication and timing. It honestly might be funny if the judge give the conference the middle finger at say… 11:15 am tomorrow. Or wait until the commission is on a plane. But of course, notify the media first.
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leaks don't seem to be much of a bad thang these days
didn't the supreme court have a leak or two?
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So ESPN reported on the suspension before the Big Ten even notified Michigan? Say what you will about the result the issue, but it being communicated to media first is absolute bullshit.
Imagine a trial where the defendant was informed after national media. As a conference, Big Ten look stupid.
Michigan's offense is so egregious that the AD's had to approve the punishment. Leaks were inevitable.
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if the commissioner had any real power or balls, he could have suspended Jim a few weeks ago w/o a leak
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https://twitter.com/lukezim/status/1723150415993164267?t=An9PxRQF4-7DSKPFqivunQ&s=19
https://twitter.com/LVSatTOC/status/1723157739159925191?t=VkZqylMUwHRjP4mfAzpq5w&s=19
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A temporary restraining order issued after midnight would last through the Ohio Stste game.
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if the commissioner had any real power or balls, he could have suspended Jim a few weeks ago w/o a leak
My understanding is that he could only do two games without authorization from AD's.
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A temporary restraining order issued after midnight would last through the Ohio Stste game.
Yes- I think they will get it too.
not sure it makes any difference. I think this whole thing just galvanize is the Michigan players even more than they already were in Maize them and even better team.
In fact, I am changing my prediction on the Penn State versus Michigan thread from Michigan wins 24 to 13 to Michigan 31 to 7
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My understanding is that he could only do two games without authorization from AD's.
He could do more than that with the approval of the executive council, which is representatives from the other schools. You really need to read the letter. It takes some time, but it really is brilliant.
Yes, the timing and delivery of the communications wasn’t very good at all.
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@MaximumSam (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1572)
Is some local Michigan Judge's ruling enforceable in Pennsylvania or can the B1G just ignore it and instruct PSU to refuse to issue a sideline pass?
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It's pretty obvious UM can find a way to get a sideline pass if they need one
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It's pretty obvious UM can find a way to get a sideline pass if they need one
Hey, you are an attorney too, does the homer-UM judge's ruling have power in PA?
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My favorite part of the letter is there a response to Michigan’s “claims“ that Ohio State, Rutgers and Purdue are in collusion:
If Stalions coordinating with third parties to perform in-person scouting on opponents violates the scouting rule, then it appears that other teams may also be violating the rule by employing each others' employees to scout their opponents in person,” Manuel wrote.
That said, there is no NCAA rule against decoding signals based on broadcast footage or All-22 film, nor is there an NCAA rule against coaching staff sharing signals with one another. While the NCAA told the Big Ten it “knew and could prove” Michigan’s scheme violated NCAA rules (https://www.elevenwarriors.com/the-big-ten/2023/11/142775/ncaa-knew-and-could-prove-michigan-conducted-in-person-scouting-scheme-using-master-spreadsheet-as-evidence) by scouting opponents in-person and filming opponents for the purpose of stealing their signals, Petitti wrote that the Big Ten “has not received any information that any other member schools engaged in impermissible advance in-person scouting.”
“The Conference is unmoved by the University’s attempt to downplay its impermissible conduct by asserting that other Conference members may have engaged in sign decoding. As the University readily admits in its response, it does not know the exact methods that it alleges other teams used to decode its own signs,” Petitti wrote. “The Conference has not received any information that any other member schools engaged in impermissible advance in-person scouting, let alone a scheme of the size and scale like the one at issue here. The Conference is unaware of any active NCAA investigations into impermissible advance scouting involving other members of the Conference.
Both the above, which I just posted in the false information about Ryan day, which caused him to get death threats are really amazing, false narratives, put out there in a major way.
Like I said, before, I couldn’t care less if Michigan gets punished or not. But I think it’s sad how they try to drag others down with them.
Glad Pettiti called them out on that.
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Tony Pee Pee boy is a gutless coward. Why he waits until a national holiday when government is closed- Veteran's Day- at 4pm the day before the Penn State game to try and pull this bullsh*t is beyond me. Complete joke.
Should've just did it yesterday or wait until this upcoming Monday to hand down a suspension.
This nutless sack of shit has to go. Where's Jim Delany when you need him?
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Man Desmond needs to be quiet- he continues to make such a fool of himself.
he's always made a fool of himself. home boy didn't go to Michigan to play school. bad ass football player though.
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let Jim on the sideline
vacate that win just for that
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let Jim on the sideline
vacate that win just for that
So you’re predicting the win?
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Hey Big 10 conference...now yous can't leave <a href="https://t.co/qD1yVZlxLO">pic.twitter.com/qD1yVZlxLO</a></p>— Dave Portnoy (@stoolpresidente) <a href="https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1723130022712549644?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 11, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
that's great. one of the most underrated movies of all time imo...
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@MaximumSam (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1572)
Is some local Michigan Judge's ruling enforceable in Pennsylvania or can the B1G just ignore it and instruct PSU to refuse to issue a sideline pass?
is it a federal or state court? Regardless, I highly doubt Penn State or the B1G is going to refuse an order from a judge.
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yup...add on top of that the complete and utter joke that the B1G leaked it through the media before they ever informed Michigan about it....complete and utter joke. Tony Pee Pee boy's rep is damaged forever. One and done as a commish. Clown show that ain't worthy of running a chuckee cheese let alone a billion plus dollar entity like the B1G.
https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/status/1723081568393011547?s=20
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So you’re predicting the win?
sure
either the players are gonna rally
or
freak cause all their wins will be vacated and no post season
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https://twitter.com/Johnubacon/status/1723171679570903303?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1723171679570903303%7Ctwgr%5Ee026bc45f1782bd2958acc20dbfc40a3583459c3%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fcollege%2Fohio-state%2Fboard%2F120%2FContents%2Fnew-judge-on-the-case-220005786%2F%3Fpage%3D1
I’m not even going to look at her bio to see where she graduated. 😂
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god this would be awesome....especially if Jeem took the trophy and started smashing it into pieces in front of Pee Pee Boy's face.
https://twitter.com/DanWetzel/status/1723081965098721642?s=20
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yikes....Pee Pee boy gotta GTFO
https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/status/1723090732746002724?s=20
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https://twitter.com/_willcompton/status/1723113069226700906?s=20
https://twitter.com/danorlovsky7/status/1723104533428007139?s=20
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god this would be awesome....especially if Jeem took the trophy and started smashing it into pieces in front of Pee Pee Boy's face.
https://twitter.com/DanWetzel/status/1723081965098721642?s=20
I still think the odds of Michigan getting that trophy were already good- but got better today.
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https://twitter.com/_willcompton/status/1723113069226700906?s=20
https://twitter.com/danorlovsky7/status/1723104533428007139?s=20
Well let’s be fair here. Yes- the timing sucked.
Michigan was partly responsible for this dragging out. They asked for an extra day to review the evidence and alleged infractions.
But you have to admit that you, and temp, and just about everybody in the Michigan forms, was celebrating that they had given the double bird to the Big Ten commissioner and saying things like to take that you SOB. You certainly can’t be too surprised when he turned around and gave it right back to you.
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I still think the odds of Michigan getting that trophy were already good- but got better today.
the witch hunt and mob coming after them worked great for the Pats. That was pretty bad ass when that clown Roger Goodell had to hand the trophy to Brady and the entire stadium starting booing him.
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(https://media.tenor.com/vJY--Pd2LQgAAAAM/pumped-woooo.gif)
https://twitter.com/RicFlairNatrBoy/status/1723118689803817320?s=20
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/in-punishing-michigan-football-big-ten-s-tony-petitti-maintains-league-credibility-gains-trust-of-members/ar-AA1jK1so
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I say Jeem and Ric Flair head to the B1G offices and just stomp out Pee Pee Boy with some metal folding chairs WWE Raw style. I'd pay good money to watch that on pay per view.
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/in-punishing-michigan-football-big-ten-s-tony-petitti-maintains-league-credibility-gains-trust-of-members/ar-AA1jK1so
well shoot, if that walking dildo with glasses Dennis Dodd says it, it must be true.
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well shoot, if that walking dildo with glasses Dennis Dodd says it, it must be true.
I lll give this. You are funny as hell. You have Me in stitches.
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/no-matter-how-bad-it-looks-michigan-football-is-determined-to-stand-by-jim-harbaugh/ar-AA1jKPzr
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saw this from 247....Tony Pee Pee Boy has USC fans second guessing their move to the B1G...
https://247sports.com/college/usc/board/102339/Contents/i-think-the-big-10-commish-going-after-michigan-219996482/?page=1
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good, don't want the left coasters
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maybe Michigan can join the PAC
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Big Ten Botched Michigan, Jim Harbaugh Punishment With Clumsy Investigation
[color=var(--dek_size_c_color,#0a1529)]Big Ten commissioner Tony Petitti made a hasty decision to suspend Harbaugh from the sideline for the rest of the regular season. It’s a move that the Wolverines won’t soon forget.[/color]
https://www.si.com/college/2023/11/10/big-ten-commissioner-tony-petitti-michigan-punishment-jim-harbaugh-suspension
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you're scrapping the bottom go google it - easily it's 4 out of 5 in favor of it.Being an M fan you embrace bombast. Michigan should have to erase all their Bowl Wins over the last 10 years. Oh wait a second
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/in-punishing-michigan-football-big-tens-tony-petitti-maintains-league-credibility-gains-trust-of-members/ (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/in-punishing-michigan-football-big-tens-tony-petitti-maintains-league-credibility-gains-trust-of-members/)
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define clumsy
I'd say Harbaugh's cover up was clumsy
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Actually suspending Booger isn't a problem,should have went after the coordinators,they make the calls jeem just has a great view of the game
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I’m not even going to look at her bio to see where she graduated. 😂
About the Honorable Carol Kuhnke
Judge Carol Kuhnke was elected by the voters of Washtenaw County in 2012 and took the bench on January 1, 2013. She was appointed by the Supreme Court to be the Chief Judge of the Washtenaw County Trial Court effective January 1, 2019. She also serves as the Presiding Judge of the Civil/Criminal Division. She holds a bachelor's degree in philosophy and history of art from the University of Michigan, and a juris doctor from Chicago-Kent College of Law.
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philosophy and history of art
:victory:
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I still think Michigan gets their injunction/ but it is interesting that it won’t be Ex parte - meaning the Big will have an attorney there to present their side. Seems like Pettiti was well prepared for all of this.
Again- it is all symbolic at this juncture - Michigan is a dangerous team with or ( maybe more so) without the HC.
Now it’s just a fight over public opinion and controlling the narrative.
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https://twitter.com/nickbaumgardner/status/1723297966256013634?s=20
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michigan's only viable option is the SEC
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https://twitter.com/nickbaumgardner/status/1723297966256013634?s=20
In all the hot takes in this saga, this might be the craziest.
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michigan's only viable option is the SEC
Where they'd become Miss ST
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like UT and OU??
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Where they'd become Miss ST
Yeah, idk.
There are only two really good teams in the SEC right now. UGA and Bama. The rest of that league is pretty much garbage. Just not quite as garbage as the B1G. LSU can’t stop a cold on defense and Ole Miss is a sieve. Fools gold. Mizzou might be kinda good though…
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In all the hot takes in this saga, this might be the craziest.
Idk. Before the B1G added Oregon, Washington, USC, & UCLA….I’d say he was kinda right.
Michigan & Ohio State are without question the big dogs and bring in all the tv audience for football- hence all the money for everyone else in the league. Penn State is almost at their level but not quite- they are like their kid brother. Highly important to the league for sure in terms of tv dollars. But after Penn State, the the rest of the league is pretty much meh.
Nebraska would’ve been a big dog 30 years ago, but I think they might be dead on arrival and never to be back to what they once were. Landscape has changed so much and they are at maybe the most extreme disadvantage for recruiting base of any major helmet there is.
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Missouri is pretty good, I think, no real obvious weaknesses. The Vols are decent as well. Good running game, not so much on passing. I don't think either Bama or UGA are massively good though. Bama seems to be coming around a bit.
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Missouri is pretty good, I think, no real obvious weaknesses. The Vols are decent as well. Good running game, not so much on passing. I don't think either Bama or UGA are massively good though. Bama seems to be coming around a bit.
I think UGA is massively good….
Bama’s defense is LEGIT and as long as Milroe is running his ass off and throwing less and not turning it over- Bama could be a problem come SeCCG/playoff time. Just run the damn kid 30 times a game and throw it 15 and they’re gonna be tough to beat bc the defense seems to have hit its stride and turned the corner and looks for real now.
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I'm hopin the Huskers run the QB 20 times and have him toss it 8 times today vs the Terps
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Idk. Before the B1G added Oregon, Washington, USC, & UCLA….I’d say he was kinda right.
Michigan & Ohio State are without question the big dogs and bring in all the tv audience for football- hence all the money for everyone else in the league. Penn State is almost at their level but not quite- they are like their kid brother. Highly important to the league for sure in terms of tv dollars. But after Penn State, the the rest of the league is pretty much meh.
Nebraska would’ve been a big dog 30 years ago, but I think they might be dead on arrival and never to be back to what they once were. Landscape has changed so much and they are at maybe the most extreme disadvantage for recruiting base of any major helmet there is.
UW, MSU and UNL attract a lot of eyeballs.
Nobody watches UCLA - not even in person. They got a gift in that USC wanted them.
The peaches from the PAC for TV are Oregon and USC. Washington is a level below and UCLA is Northwestern. LA's Big Ten team....
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michigan's only viable option is the SEC
I don't think, "well take our ball and go where they don't care about cheating" reads the way they think it does
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it's redickerous
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(https://i.imgur.com/iEkoi3b.png)
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Idk. Before the B1G added Oregon, Washington, USC, & UCLA….I’d say he was kinda right.
Michigan & Ohio State are without question the big dogs and bring in all the tv audience for football- hence all the money for everyone else in the league. Penn State is almost at their level but not quite- they are like their kid brother. Highly important to the league for sure in terms of tv dollars. But after Penn State, the the rest of the league is pretty much meh.
Nebraska would’ve been a big dog 30 years ago, but I think they might be dead on arrival and never to be back to what they once were. Landscape has changed so much and they are at maybe the most extreme disadvantage for recruiting base of any major helmet there is.
The statement that Ohio State/Michigan have more clout/resources than the other schools combined stretches the outer limits of hyperbole.
In 2022 the gap between average viewers for Ohio State and Michigan (1.43 million) was larger than the gap between Michigan and Penn State (1.32 million). Source: https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-were-the-most-watched-in-2022-94eca4f6acbd
As far as resources go, based on 2022 revenue Ohio State/Michigan was $462,267,632. The next three schools - Penn State, Michigan State, Indiana - had a combined revenue of $520,788,432. And again, the gap between Ohio State and Michigan ($40,963,058) was larger than the gap between Michigan and Penn State ($29,424,839).
Source: https://www.on3.com/news/usa-today-releases-top-25-total-revenue-college-athletics-programs/
If anything, I would say Ohio State is a tier of its own. Followed by Michigan in a tier of its own with Penn State near that tier, but leading the tier of others.
Disclaimer: Sources should be taken for a grain of salt, and I am an attorney so my math is probably wrong.
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Has any team thread EVER been this long?
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certainly not an SEC team
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Nebraska is about halfway
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https://twitter.com/JeannaTrotmanTV/status/1723367715165872413
There’s the media and there’s reality.
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Has any team thread EVER been this long?
Maybe Team Covid.
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chickens are NOT people
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Harbaugh's daughter comes off like Huggins' daughter.
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Harbaugh's daughter comes off like Harbaugh's daughter.
FIFY
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Poor jimmy we should have his problems
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From a Michigan alum judge in Ann Arbor, probably.
From a legitimate judicial officer, no way.
LoL
It should tell you how weak Michigan's legal position is that not even the local UM-grad judge was willing to rule for them.
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LoL
It should tell you how weak Michigan's legal position is that not even the local UM-grad judge was willing to rule for them.
Or the judge didn’t want to cave under pressure and wanted due diligence. It’s respectable. Why is everyone going to worst case scenario on this story as long as it paints Michigan terribly?
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Today - set the acrimony aside.
It was about the Michigan players today. Today they stood tall.
Nothing but respect for them.
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Or the judge didn’t want to cave under pressure and wanted due diligence. It’s respectable. Why is everyone going to worst case scenario on this story as long as it paints Michigan terribly?
I read the letters back and forth and Michigan's legal position is comically bad.
Fundamtally the B1G is a private club and private clubs have broad discretion to interpret their own rules and the B1G's Sportsmanship Policy is so broad and open ended as to allow the league to do whatever they want. There simply isn't a case.
I assumed that Michigan was forum shopping for a favorable Judge simply because they have no other viable options.
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If the Big 10 really wanted to screw Michigan they would have suspended James Franklin.
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Hearing is scheduled for next Friday 9 am.
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Hearing is scheduled for next Friday 9 am.
B1G and Commissioner have the option to remove this to Federal Court.
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Cool their hero will bolt town and they'll take it on the chin
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If the Big 10 really wanted to screw Michigan they would have suspended James Franklin.
that's gold jerry, gold.
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I read the letters back and forth and Michigan's legal position is comically bad.
Michigan’s is bad? This is a joke.
(https://i.imgur.com/wLBGoTj.jpg)
other coaches said changing signs isn’t easy so we have to do this.. oh by the way, we don’t have proof that Harbaugh knew, but the sportsmanship policy.. the sportsmanship policy is the only way to protect the integrity. The only way to make sure there’s no unfair advantage is make sure the head coach, who may not have known about it, isn’t there.. forget that maybe every assistant coach knew.. doesn’t matter.. for integrity purposes, the head coach can’t be there so other opponents don’t have to change signs…
wait.. what? The rest of the coaches knew? They did? Doesn’t matter.. I’m talking about integrity and sportsmanship policy and all that matters is the head coach not being there.
sorry but it absolutely makes no sense at all. If Michigan is found to have violated rules.: then punish them and do so to make an example. This reasoning is flat out garbage and I have no idea how you find strength in it.
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https://twitter.com/JustinThind/status/1723438753320939781?t=6bd_0b4BaGvVM0g-lMGrxQ&s=19
https://twitter.com/TkachukFanAcc/status/1723437457486537130?t=2UIX3TDGqECniMuihA0utQ&s=19
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https://twitter.com/JustinThind/status/1723438753320939781?t=6bd_0b4BaGvVM0g-lMGrxQ&s=19
https://twitter.com/TkachukFanAcc/status/1723437457486537130?t=2UIX3TDGqECniMuihA0utQ&s=19
Why are people mocking him for this? I don’t get it? They’ve been shit on for weeks. We have 115 pages alone of shitting on them. This is their lives they pour so much effort into. Probably one of the most meaningful professional moments of his life and people are going to mock him joyful emotions?
yeah it’s football… but some people put everything they’ve got for years into their professional and when they have a great moment, it hits deep. Personally I found this far more genuine and meaningful than coach’s robot answers we get 95% of the time.
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Michigan’s is bad? This is a joke.
[img width=234.333 height=166]https://i.imgur.com/wLBGoTj.jpg[/img]
other coaches said changing signs isn’t easy so we have to do this.. oh by the way, we don’t have proof that Harbaugh knew, but the sportsmanship policy.. the sportsmanship policy is the only way to protect the integrity. The only way to make sure there’s no unfair advantage is make sure the head coach, who may not have known about it, isn’t there.. forget that maybe every assistant coach knew.. doesn’t matter.. for integrity purposes, the head coach can’t be there so other opponents don’t have to change signs…
wait.. what? The rest of the coaches knew? They did? Doesn’t matter.. I’m talking about integrity and sportsmanship policy and all that matters is the head coach not being there.
sorry but it absolutely makes no sense at all. If Michigan is found to have violated rules.: then punish them and do so to make an example. This reasoning is flat out garbage and I have no idea how you find strength in it.
You do understand that the suspension is punishment for the university and not to restore any competitive advantage?
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Because nobody died. Nobody is sick. His boss is a mile up the road for a cheating scandal, that he also benefitted from. It would be like Henry Kissinger crying as Nixon helicopter flew away
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my god I love tasting the tears of bitter & envious & jealous fans...mmmmmm....yummmmy
I LOVED Sherrone Moore's post-game interview. Dude just let the emotions rip. It's an EMOTIONAL game. And you can tell that he really loves his coaches and he really loves his players and he really CARES about them- and not just collecting a fat paycheck- which is the only thing guys in the NFL care about.
That's how a coach gets the best out of players- especially at this level- when they know beyond a shadow of a doubt that their coach actually really cares about them and loves them. A coach will get so much more out of them when their players know that- and their players will almost do anything just not to let their coach down.
The idiot coaches and the B1G commish handed Michigan a gift on a silver platter. That's rocket fuel to bring this team closer together and keep them on the path of kicking ass and taking names and making the entire league it's prison bitch.
Up next: @Maryland.
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Who is bitter? It's just funny
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Why are people mocking him for this? I don’t get it?
I do
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https://twitter.com/TomBrady/status/1723128210789941468?s=20
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You do understand that the suspension is punishment for the university and not to restore any competitive advantage?
And if you believe that’s true, don’t you believe it’s completely misguided? Wouldn’t restoring competitive advantage be far more important, especially for penn state, rather than prioritizing punishment for the university?
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Because nobody died. Nobody is sick. His boss is a mile up the road for a cheating scandal, that he also benefitted from. It would be like Henry Kissinger crying as Nixon helicopter flew away
Yeah, people can only experience emotion from death and sickness. Quite odd because some experience bitterness and hatred of people over a game.
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And if you believe that’s true, don’t you believe it’s completely misguided? Wouldn’t restoring competitive advantage be far more important, especially for penn state, rather than prioritizing punishment for the university?
That's never how cheating punishments have worked in sports. You also want to disincentivize future teams from doing it. Just restoring competitive balance after an advantage has already been gained makes it worth doing it for as.long as.you can get away with it
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Yeah, people can only experience emotion from death and sickness. Quite odd because some experience bitterness and hatred of people over a game.
I'm not saying he can't be emotional. I'm sorry his feelings were hurt that his boss got a slap on the wrist for cheating. But I can also think it's hilariously naive for him to have that emotion.
My children cry over stupid shit all the time, and I frequently hold back chuckling while consoling them. And hope they outgrow that, and separately learn to follow rules.
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I'm sorry his feelings were hurt
hah!!! I'm not sorry
Cheaters!
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But I can also think it's hilariously naive for him to have that emotion.
Again, what? Dude was placed in a very uncomfortable situation, with the dreams of so many of his players in his hands in a very unexpected moment.
it’s just comical how so many people here are know-it-alls about every detail of this story, but really you actually aren’t.
could Michigan have blatantly cheated and every coach knew the details and they are truly clowns, including this reaction? Sure. Could be the reality we end up seeing.. and if so, shame on all of them…reality could also be that Stallions was completely rogue and lied about every detail about how he was getting signs and every coach and player had no clue and they thought he was just a genius from watching films and they feel like their dreams, integrity and success are attempting to be stolen from every angle. Also, could be true. The reality is, no one here knows the truth yet there’s such a vast group here that believe they know everything and anyone disagreeing is just clueless. And all the facts are perfectly laid out.
remember all the facts perfectly laid out about covid vaccines? Yeah.. seems like a lot of people are regretting buying into that expertise truth they had on that topic too. Last thing I want to do is go political, but the point is people that often believe they know everything right off the bat end up looking far more foolish than those that are cautious waiting for more facts and details before making up their mind.
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could Michigan have blatantly cheated and every coach knew the details and they are truly clowns
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every coach didn't know the details, but they should have asked by now
it's pretty obvious that some on the staff blatantly cheated
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could Michigan have blatantly cheated and every coach knew the details and they are truly clowns
____________________________________________
every coach didn't know the details, but they should have asked by now
it's pretty obvious that some on the staff blatantly cheated
(https://i.imgur.com/j4aW6Hm.jpg)
This is supposedly what OSU provided to Purdue prior to facing Michigan. Again, may be fake, I have no idea but Michigan claims this was sent to NCAA.
What if UM coaches asked Stallions for visual proof of how he is getting his info and he provided something similar? They could have thought due diligence was done.
is this likely? Maybe not, but we also don’t know. That’s all I’m saying. I’m not implying Michigan is innocent. I’m saying I’m confident no one else knew. All I’m saying is we just just know at this stage of the game and any stance that X is true and anyone disagreeing is dumb, is shortsighted and an impatient stance.
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just my opinion
well, not really, many folks opinion
WAY too much smoke to not have been a fire
for the Big Ten Commish to suspend Jim, there's damn good evidence that there was cheating.
damn good evidence
If Jim's staff are still thinkin there was no cheating, well that's on them
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if Jeem does leave for the NFL and Sherrone Moore is promoted to HC AND they can somehow convince JJ and Donovan Edwards to comeback for their senior seasons, Michigan might actually be really good in 2024.
They basically don't have a QB in 2024- they'll have to go portal it or play a true frosh Jaydn Davis. And I do like the RB's they're bringing in the 2024 class and the true frosh Benjamin Hall will be a pretty good back when it's all said and done- but none of these dudes have the talent of Edwards. Edwards is the most physically gifted back I've seen at Michigan since Wheatley imo.
Corum = best back at Michigan since Hart. Edwards = most talented back at Michigan since Wheatley.
Having said all that, I think there's a 30% chance at best they can even get JJ back and I'd be absolutely shocked if Edwards came back, he's already said he's going to the NFL after his junior year.
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And if you believe that’s true, don’t you believe it’s completely misguided? Wouldn’t restoring competitive advantage be far more important, especially for penn state, rather than prioritizing punishment for the university?
The is no way to restore. Games have already been played with um having the competitive advantage. Stallions is already gone. Only thing left is to punish the offender (the university). Which is what the big ten did.
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if Jeem does leave for the NFL and Sherrone Moore is promoted to HC AND they can somehow convince JJ and Donovan Edwards to comeback for their senior seasons, Michigan might actually be really good in 2024.
They basically don't have a QB in 2024- they'll have to go portal it or play a true frosh Jaydn Davis. And I do like the RB's they're bringing in the 2024 class and the true frosh Benjamin Hall will be a pretty good back when it's all said and done- but none of these dudes have the talent of Edwards. Edwards is the most physically gifted back I've seen at Michigan since Wheatley imo.
Corum = best back at Michigan since Hart. Edwards = most talented back at Michigan since Wheatley.
Having said all that, I think there's a 30% chance at best they can even get JJ back and I'd be absolutely shocked if Edwards came back, he's already said he's going to the NFL after his junior year.
I got some for ya.
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OK so the Big Ten has chimed (not going away but done for now) in but this in no means gets Michigan out of trouble with the NCAA, right?
just asking
could the NCAA snub Jimmy and his team if their investigation deems that the evidence, in totality, is enough to warranty that some games were won by "Grey area's" of rule breaking? i think we can all agree that the real investigation is with NCAA and maybe the feds (doesnt this have gambling implications as well or at least affected outcomes of games)
lets say OSU wins and Michigan is 11-1, can the committee manually drop them to 5 and leave them at home? assuming they beat Maryland on the road.
while the fight right now to to save face and get Jim back on the sideline do people really think this is going to be dropped? Are Michigan Fans thinking lets see if we win it all and then if we have to vacate the wins lt least we know we won?
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11-1 Michigan isn't getting in anyway
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I'm sorry his feelings were hurt
hah!!! I'm not sorry
Cheaters!
https://youtu.be/g42FIJfYPKw
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that was my thought ed zachery!
great minds
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https://www.elevenwarriors.com/forum/college-sports/2023/11/142899/finebaum-calls-michigan-fans-the-most-obnoxious-hilarious
Matt Barrie - "But the crying last night.....we laughed,I laughed.....that was funeral crying over a win for a coach that over saw a program that has been cheating....... he's probably sitting in the 4 Seasons watching the game,hell he could be even taking notes with ear buds an talking to some one on the sidelines. This whole Michigan thing has been funny - fake outrage"
Paul Finebaum - "The most obnoxious fan base in America that literally thinks the universe revolves around the University of Michigan football program.Correct me if I'm wrong Matt....Michigan has won what? One and half National Championships in the last 70 years.
Barrie - "YA"
Paul Finebaum - "I mean Alabama and Georgia won one a while we were talking here"
BARRIE - ((laughs))
:043:
Gold Jerry Gold,they get it
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https://twitter.com/AriWasserman/status/1724046968891035945?s=20
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would be nice if we could keep the opinions from the meidiots to a minimum on this thread. just saying.
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(https://i.imgur.com/tRlBoqq.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/tRlBoqq.png)
now that's funny...and sad. lol.
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I'm just happy that I got to see the acting HC drop two F-bombs and the S word to boot in the post-game interview. FOX will pay a neat little fine for that, lol.
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I'm just happy that I got to see the acting HC drop two F-bombs and the S word to boot in the post-game interview. FOX will pay a neat little fine for that, lol.
Klatt and Gus will pay that for them, and not even require a thank you
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would be nice if we could keep the opinions from the meidiots to a minimum on this thread. just saying.
While talk about penis head and Pee-Pee makes sense
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https://twitter.com/AriWasserman/status/1724046968891035945?s=20
I'm surprised to see an Ohio State guy have a take like that. Seriously shocking.
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I'm surprised to see an Ohio State guy have a take like that. Seriously shocking.
He's an Arizona alum, who just happened to be on the OSU beat before becoming a national writer. And if you actually listen to the Athletic podcast, he regularly gets blasted for being too hard on OSU. But, hey, I guess we should listen to Jim Harbaugh's daughter for a balanced take. Ari's take is essentially the take I've seen from everyone. The hilarity of the their desire to portray themselves as the victims might be the low point of this. People were talking about it at the bus stop. Pitt fans who may have been the only people other than UM fans rooting for UM this weekend
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Low point....maybe....but a common point. This culture is nothing anymore if not constantly self-made victims.
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He's an Arizona alum, who just happened to be on the OSU beat before becoming a national writer. And if you actually listen to the Athletic podcast, he regularly gets blasted for being too hard on OSU. But, hey, I guess we should listen to Jim Harbaugh's daughter for a balanced take. Ari's take is essentially the take I've seen from everyone. The hilarity of the their desire to portray themselves as the victims might be the low point of this. People were talking about it at the bus stop. Pitt fans who may have been the only people other than UM fans rooting for UM this weekend
(https://i.imgur.com/Y0X75Ka.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/kT7cCBy.png)Just happened to be? All he wrote about for most of the last 10 years was the Buckeyes and his love was clear and apparent. Sometimes the take we see from "everyone" is because it's the only take we want to see while ignoring others. And never would I claim the take from Harbaugh's daughter is impartial. Clearly favoritism from a one-sided opinion, but at least that can be acknowledged.
Lastly.. where do you see Michigan as a University saying they're victims? From everything I've seen, they're unhappy about the rush to judgment without due process. That's not saying they're a victim, that's being annoyed by the lack of proper process that sets a dangerous precedent. Unless I missed the victim speeches.. which I'm certainly open to seeing them pointed out, not the 20 garbage tweets from clickbait people that posted over and over on this thread.
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Lastly.. where do you see Michigan as a University saying they're victims? From everything I've seen, they're unhappy about the rush to judgment without due process. That's not saying they're a victim, that's being annoyed by the lack of proper process that sets a dangerous precedent. Unless I missed the victim speeches.. which I'm certainly open to seeing them pointed out, not the 20 garbage tweets from clickbait people that posted over and over on this thread.
Just from every fan, coach, player and even the frickin university president.
Just like with politics, its way easier to pretend to be a victim of something, than to shoulder blame or work on solutions. And the fan base will eat it up
Michigan vs. Everybody. WTF
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If you were accused of something and weren’t given due process, wouldn’t you feel it’s you versus the system?
And again, we still don’t know all the details of what went on.
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What we already know was already a violation of NCAA rules, all that's left to be determined is just how bad it was.
Like I said at the time, Michigan should be thankful for the Harbaugh suspension. Everyone here said that just made them more confident UM was going to win. He doesn't call plays, that was a big nothing burger. Hell, if they had suspended him for everything BUT the games, that would be a worse penalty.
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Again the problem is what went down last season after the 3rd tunnel altercations over 7 home games and a brawl on the Field and MSU was made out to be the bad guys when M players not only instigated the thing but taunted them right up to the locker room door. But UZI Mazi Smith a Team Captain no less was pulled over arrested going 53 in a 25 thru Ann Arbor with no conceal carry license,a loaded Glock with a total of 3 clips and 65 slugs. All this is hidden until after the season
This is how depraved the U of M followers are.So a gun on campus,a felony charge for a zero tolerance institution. When there were posters around campus and Prosecutor Eli Savit proclamation "if you are driving with a gun illegally,you will go to jail.I am adamant about strict gun control policy. I will put you in prison". - I guess he forgot to add "unless you're the Captain for the UofM football team".And Mazi is allowed to continue to play football? Savit should have recused himself as his own selfies showed his office lined with Wolverine memorabilia. And he is a professor at U of M Law School - no,not a conflict of interest there at all.
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https://www.elevenwarriors.com/the-big-ten/2023/11/142927/jim-harbaugh-plans-to-attend-michigan-big-ten-hearing-on-friday-calls-the-wolverines-americas-team
I can’t believe this is being debated.
Now Harbaugh isn’t just playing the victim, like seemingly all of the Michigan fans are- he ( like he likes to do ) is flaunting it.
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Again the problem is what went down last season after the 3rd straight tunnel altercations and a brawl on the Field and MSU was made out to be the bad guys when M players not only instigated the thing but taunted them right up to the locker room door. But UZI Mazi Smith a Team Captain no less was pulled over arrested going 53 in a 25 thru Ann Arbor with no conceal carry license,a loaded Glock with a total of 3 clips and 65 slugs. All this is hidden until after the season
This is how depraved the U of M followers are.So a gun on campus,a felony charge for a zero tolerance institution. When there were posters around campus and Prosecutor Eli Savit proclamation "if you are driving with a gun illegally,you will go to jail.I am adamant about strict gun control policy. I will put you in prison". - I guess he forgot to add "unless you're the Captain for the UofM football team".And Mazi is allowed to continue to play football? Savit should have recused himself as his own selfies showed his office lined with Wolverine memorabilia. And he is a professor at U of M Law School - no,not a conflict of interest there at all.
I'll never argue your take on this. Not in the least bit.. that being said, this happens nearly everywhere. If Michigan claims to be above this type of garbage, i would certainly call it out in a heartbeat. For multiple decades we have been a society that let athletes off on the collegiate, professional and in some areas at the high school level when they should have been punished for their actions.
I certainly don't agree with it and it has always rubbed me the wrong way and Michigan has certainly been a part of that reality, like so many others.
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But they walked and tressel was relieved for a lot less
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To me the biggest false narrative is this garbage about due process. Any one who reads Pettiti’s 13 page report know that is simply a lie- intended to delay a bigger punishment
This additional evidence, including recorded interviews, photos, videos, and other documentation that had previously been provided to the University, confirms what the evidence already reviewed by the Conference makes clear: the University football team staff member engaged in an organized and extensive in-person, off campus advance scouting scheme, and that the staff member was in close communications with at least some of the coaches on the University’s football team. //This evidence also revealed significant new information from interviews that the University attended, information that is covered by confidentiality under the NCAA’s rules so as not discussed further here.//”
“Significant new information” that cannot be disclosed in the B1G letter due to confidentiality issues.
According to Petitti, the fact that the NCAA felt the need to inform the Big Ten about the investigation immediately underscored the severity of the allegations against Michigan, leading to the conference taking swift action against the Wolverines.”
"It is rare and outside the NCAA's typical protocols for the NCAA to disclose information about an active investigation to institutions other than the institution under investigation. However, the NCAA stated and believed that the disclosure was necessary due to the unprecedented scope of the then-alleged scheme, and because of the significant impact the impermissible scheme could have on competition during the current football season,"
So according to the commissioner-
-The evidence that impermissible activity, intended to gain an unfair competitive advantage for multiple seasons and with meticulously planned execution- is incontrovertible.
- this evidence was presented in full to the University of Michigan president when they met in person with the commissioner.
-instead of showing contrition, and accountability, the Michigan brass started their PR campaign to blame others, stall, claim others are doing it, question the Big Ten’s authority to act, etc. clearly a full blown attempt to change the narrative. They even attacked Pettiti on a personal level. They also delayed their response by a day and a half- thereby delaying the BIG’s response.
So there is more to come - as part of the legitimate due process- to determine if/ how much the coaches were involved.
But the fact that this actually happened is established, and the Big did the minimal they could do.
So due process is being allowed where needed- but over with respect to the impermissible activity.
The letter makes it clear- the NCAA is coming hard after this because they see it as egregious, and they are coming faster than normal.
And I will admit that this is my opinion, but I think it’s shared by many to say the least; this whole “Defense and clamoring about due process” by Michigan, where they don’t deny anything, it’s really there attempt to see if they can ensure the season plays out because they know the hammer is coming. That’s what this all boils down to.
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But they walked and tressel was relieved for a lot less
not true.
Tressel was fired because he played cover up and lied to the NCAA and to Ohio State AD and he only got caught red handed because the FEDs busted the drug trafficker that was giving Pryor & Co. free tats and cash for memorabilia.
Drug trafficker never gets popped, Tressel’s lies never get uncovered and he’s Gucci and still coaching at Ohio State for at least a few more years.
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put the pipe down jimmy covered up a felony gun charge then the University Law Professor who should have been disbarred for not recusing himself violated his own bombast Prosecutor Eli Savit proclamation "if you are driving with a gun illegally,you will go to jail.I am adamant about strict gun control policy. I will put you in prison". - I guess he forgot to add "unless you're the Captain for the UofM football team"
Does the new"U" treat you slappies like mushrooms - kept in the dark and fed shit?
and where is your link regarding this how was Tressel to know about the guy trafficing how about your hero Lewan covering for his date rapist buddy Brandan then threatening her if she came forward? PURE MICHIGAN
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They are doing due process. It's rare that a scandal is so poorly covered up that you learn of it in real time. This is the punishment based on what is KNOWN AND PROVABLE. There will be further punishment for what is KNOWN and not yet provable.
I tend to not trust the NCAA in this stuff, but for them to actively reach out to the Big Ten, after they way UM peacocked around their other pending Level I violations, makes me think they did the one thing that would make the NCAA actually be forced to punish one of their golden gooses. At this point, UM needs the tv networks to save them. And yet they are calling for a ban on watching ESPN over the fact that they...checks notes...reported on it. The only thing potentially saving UM from a postseason ban is ESPN being pissed about paying billions of dollars just to not have one of the 5 biggest draws pulled on a rule violation...
And the strategy is to make that draw smaller.
(https://media.tenor.com/Q3KPOTHw9LAAAAAC/bold-strategy-jason-bateman.gif)
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not true.
Tressel was fired because he played cover up and lied to the NCAA and to Ohio State AD and he only got caught red handed because the FEDs busted the drug trafficker that was giving Pryor & Co. free tats and cash for memorabilia.
Drug trafficker never gets popped, Tressel’s lies never get uncovered and he’s Gucci and still coaching at Ohio State for at least a few more years.
But...Harbaugh has already been popped (and is apparently still under investigation) for that level of infraction, completely unrelated to signgate.
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But...Harbaugh has already been popped (and is apparently still under investigation) for that level of infraction, completely unrelated to signgate.
But OSU isn't America's Team
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Lastly.. where do you see Michigan as a University saying they're victims? From everything I've seen, they're unhappy about the rush to judgment without due process. That's not saying they're a victim, that's being annoyed by the lack of proper process that sets a dangerous precedent. Unless I missed the victim speeches.. which I'm certainly open to seeing them pointed out, not the 20 garbage tweets from clickbait people that posted over and over on this thread.
idk, all the arguments that the NCAA is just going after Harbaugh because they don't like him 'speaking truth to power' about NIL and such, and that the other B1G programs are trying to punish him/UM because they're jealous/scared of Michigan's success? I don't know if I've heard such from you, but I KNOW I have from both Mdot and Temp.
Those statements seem to suggest that these are politically-motivated attacks on Michigan and some have argued that they're being unfairly and uniquely singled out for these things despite rulebreaking going on elsewhere.
That to me screams victimhood.
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But...Harbaugh has already been popped (and is apparently still under investigation) for that level of infraction, completely unrelated to signgate.
Also, Tressel wasn't fired. He resigned and he did so because there was written documentation from a former player to him outlining the benefits players were receiving that was uncovered and Tressel couldn't get around it.
Now if there's communication in writing that Harbaugh knew all the details about sign stealing he should resign or be fired immediately as well.
Lucky for Tressel and OSU, some of the most egregious forms of paying players has always been swept under the rug claiming it was for Tattoos and things of little value. Again, this is not deflecting or changing the story, but Michigan is not the only program that attempts to keep the focus on the minor areas of infractions so the extent of the violation isn't commonly known nor understood.
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And bear in mind, I do know that Mdot's position isn't that Michigan are victims here. His is "f**k the panty-waisted NCAA b/c we're gonna do what the f**k we want, and f**k the other Big Ten loser programs who were too f**king stupid to be doing this too."
At least that's how I read him :57:
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idk, all the arguments that the NCAA is just going after Harbaugh because they don't like him 'speaking truth to power' about NIL and such, and that the other B1G programs are trying to punish him/UM because they're jealous/scared of Michigan's success? I don't know if I've heard such from you, but I KNOW I have from both Mdot and Temp.
Those statements seem to suggest that these are politically-motivated attacks on Michigan and some have argued that they're being unfairly and uniquely singled out for these things despite rulebreaking going on elsewhere.
That to me screams victimhood.
Completely understand and agree with this take. I can't say a vast majority or not are taking this approach, but some certainly are. The reasonable UM fans I know personally aren't on this train. They just want to see the facts and if the facts are damning then punishment should be involved. The other part that has perked my interest and those in my circle is the other schools provide sign stealing assistance to Purdue. I think it's very different than what Stallions did, but conceptionally similar. The UM version if the media releases are accurate are probably worse.
I think there are UM fans being unreasonable and scream victimhood as you pointed out. I think there's also reasonable ones that are just annoyed by the amount of people looking to pile on every chance possible in a "haha" fashion. You my man, have had very reasonable and spot on takes, which certainly allows people to step back and consider other intelligent thoughts as their opinion takes shape with new info. Appreciate that about you.
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And bear in mind, I do know that Mdot's position isn't that Michigan are victims here. His is "f**k the panty-waisted NCAA b/c we're gonna do what the f**k we want, and f**k the other Big Ten loser programs who were too f**king stupid to be doing this too."
At least that's how I read him :57:
haha.. Now that one truly made me grab my stomach laughing.
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But OSU isn't America's Team
BASTAGE
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And bear in mind, I do know that Mdot's position isn't that Michigan are victims here. His is "f**k the panty-waisted NCAA b/c we're gonna do what the f**k we want, and f**k the other Big Ten loser programs who were too f**king stupid to be doing this too."
At least that's how I read him :57:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1tj2zJ2Wvg
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They are doing due process. It's rare that a scandal is so poorly covered up that you learn of it in real time. This is the punishment based on what is KNOWN AND PROVABLE. There will be further punishment for what is KNOWN and not yet provable.
I tend to not trust the NCAA in this stuff, but for them to actively reach out to the Big Ten, after they way UM peacocked around their other pending Level I violations, makes me think they did the one thing that would make the NCAA actually be forced to punish one of their golden gooses. At this point, UM needs the tv networks to save them. And yet they are calling for a ban on watching ESPN over the fact that they...checks notes...reported on it. The only thing potentially saving UM from a postseason ban is ESPN being pissed about paying billions of dollars just to not have one of the 5 biggest draws pulled on a rule violation...
And the strategy is to make that draw smaller.
This.
IMHO, if this was Central Michigan instead of Michigan, they would already have a multi-year bowl-ban including THIS year.
For all the screaming victimhood by Michigan's fans, the reality is the exact opposite.
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@SuperMario (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1596)
I'm addressing this to you because I don't think Mdot and Temp are even remotely capable of rational discussion but this is something that I think is BAD news for Michigan:
When you think about the previous scandals that we've seen involving NCAA rules they are one of two things, either:
- Minor (cheeseburgers) stuff, or
- Major pay-to-play things but with the caveat that in these the actual violation was NOT committed by the University or anyone directly employed by the University.
WRT #1 I didn't mean the "(cheeseburgers)" reference to demean Michigan. We've seen lots of these types of minor practice time or dead period recruiting or whatever violations.
WRT to pay-to-play things I think we (collectively) tend to misspeak. Three examples that have come up repeatedly in this thread:
- Tattoos,
- Auburn/Cam Newton
- Michigan Basketball / Ed Martin
We (collectively) typically say that Ohio State/Auburn/Michigan committed some violation. In reality, as far as I know, that is incorrect in all three cases, at least technically:
Ohio State didn't trade bowl swag for tattoos, some local tattoo parlor owner did that. Ie, the violation was committed by a kid(s) and a tattoo parlor guy.
Auburn didn't pay Cam Newton to play for them. Some boosters made a massive contribution to Cam Newton's father's church for Cam Newton to play for Auburn. Ie, the violation was committed by a kid (or arguably his father) and some private individuals.
Michigan didn't cut checks to BB players. Ed Marton did. Ie, the violation was committed by a kid(s) and a private individual.
Where I see this as a completely different situation and much more problematic for the University is that in this case the violation wasn't committed by a booster or a tattoo parlor guy. The actual violation was committed by an employee of the University of Michigan.
There is apparently sufficient evidence that neither the NCAA nor the B1G have any doubt that Connor Stallions, while employed by the University committed a violation. Further, this isn't a "cheeseburger" violation involving an accidental timing issue or a $20 meal. This was a premeditated and well organized violation of a clear NCAA rule.
I still think it is at best questionable whether or not Michigan will be post-season eligible THIS year. Frankly, I think the NCAA/B1G were hoping that Penn State would take them out so that they wouldn't have to. As we approach the end of the season there are going to be people in Seattle, Eugene, Tuscaloosa, etc who are going to pressure the NCAA to knock Michigan out of the CFP. There are only four ways left to do that:
- Maryland takes them out, or
- Ohio State takes them out, or
- The B1G-W Champion (probably Iowa) takes them out, or
- The NCAA or B1G takes them out.
It is not inconceivable that other leagues and or schools could end up suing the NCAA to demand that they enforce their own rules.
Honestly answer this:
If the situation were reversed and say Washington had been cheating*, how would you feel if Washington got one of the four CFP spots and Michigan ended up at #5?
*Cheating:
You may find that characterization offensive but at this point the NCAA/B1G appear to have spoken. Connor Stallions violated NCAA rules to the benefit of the University of Michigan Football Team in games played THIS year. That cannot realistically be construed as anything other than cheating.
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Completely understand and agree with this take. I can't say a vast majority or not are taking this approach, but some certainly are. The reasonable UM fans I know personally aren't on this train. They just want to see the facts and if the facts are damning then punishment should be involved. The other part that has perked my interest and those in my circle is the other schools provide sign stealing assistance to Purdue. I think it's very different than what Stallions did, but conceptionally similar. The UM version if the media releases are accurate are probably worse.
I think there are UM fans being unreasonable and scream victimhood as you pointed out. I think there's also reasonable ones that are just annoyed by the amount of people looking to pile on every chance possible in a "haha" fashion. You my man, have had very reasonable and spot on takes, which certainly allows people to step back and consider other intelligent thoughts as their opinion takes shape with new info. Appreciate that about you.
This take is mostly everyone I graduated HS with, and didn't get into college, yet makes fun of other Big Ten academics compared to Michigan. And also everyone on Michigan's payroll, up to the President. Most UM alums I've talked to, are embarrassed. More embarrassed by this than just not winning, but playing clean under RR and Hoke. And Ari had a whole take about that as well.
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would the Big Ten instruct officials to call more penalties on Michigan and less on Michigan's opponent to cause them to lose a game?
Texas and OU seem to be in that question while leaving the Big 12
Penalties were pretty even vs PSU
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This take is mostly everyone I graduated HS with, and didn't get into college, yet makes fun of other Big Ten academics compared to Michigan. And also everyone on Michigan's payroll, up to the President. Most UM alums I've talked to, are embarrassed. More embarrassed by this than just not winning, but playing clean under RR and Hoke. And Ari had a whole take about that as well.
Which take? Not sure I fully understand what you’re saying here.
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There is apparently sufficient evidence that neither the NCAA nor the B1G have any doubt that Connor Stallions, while employed by the University committed a violation. Further, this isn't a "cheeseburger" violation involving an accidental timing issue or a $20 meal. This was a premeditated and well organized violation of a clear NCAA rule.
Your overall explanation and mindset, I completely agree with and understand what you're saying, where you're coming from and the most likely the reality of the situation. The verbiage used here I nearly completely agree with, especially stating "apparently." From the leaked ESPN reports it sounds like there is. That being said, we don't know for sure which is why I think saying the NCAA has no doubts is premature. I think they likely believe this is the case, but if there were "no doubts" i think the penalty would be harsher right off the bat. With the Tressel situation, there was no doubts (which i'll message you on directly and add some details on personally know on that topic.). I also agree with you that the Big10 is hoping for a natural Michigan loss. I would think the NCAA is more focused on $$ than making decisions, so their part I'm not convinced we know exactly where they stand.
Honestly answer this:
If the situation were reversed and say Washington had been cheating*, how would you feel if Washington got one of the four CFP spots and Michigan ended up at #5?
You'll hate/dislike my response here lol. First, this scenario isnt likely. If Washington wins out, they'll be in for sure because either OSU or Michigan will lose, so it's somewhat irrelevant, but I also know that's not exactly your point. Ive asked myself this question and I have different perspectives. Michigan has really not had a game outside Penn State at this point. If Michigan wins out, which you can pretty much guarantee there's no sign stealing during their games that are actually a test, then I'm not sure how you can keep them out or be a different school that has 1 loss and complain that they're in.
Additionally, if I'm a player at say Georgia, Michigan wins out and they aren't allowed in the CFB playoff, I'd love to win my title, but a small part of me would always be pissed we didn't get to settle it on the field and another team that didn't have a loss and technically was the #2 team, wasn't allowed to settle it on the field. (that's assuming Michigan were to win out.)
Again, I'm saying that with UM homer glasses. If this was OSU in the MIchigan scenario, I could still see how UGA players would want it to play out and beat them on the field. I also not saying that's the right way to handle it, but from a player perspective, that's what I would want.
From a coach/fan perspective, if I was a #5 team.. I'd be blowing up the NCAA phone and demanding to know exactly what they have. I'd argue we have a legal right to know and it's damning enough and clear evidence that the line was WAY crossed, I'd want to be in.
*Cheating:
You may find that characterization offensive but at this point the NCAA/B1G appear to have spoken. Connor Stallions violated NCAA rules to the benefit of the University of Michigan Football Team in games played THIS year. That cannot realistically be construed as anything other than cheating.
Here's the other part of my answer I know you'll dislike lol.. but again, i'm trying to be reasonable and also looking for reasonable people to have honest conversation that are true football fans so that the opposing view helps shape a healthy perspective. Some of the posts here are just far from that.. some are helping do that.
That being said.. keep looping back to the former Purdue coach that came clean to say OSU and Rutgers gave a complete breakdown of Michigan coaches calling plays, what that sign meant and yet the only responses I see are "UM fans are just deflecting because sign sharing is legal and common." I'm really having a tough time wrapping my head around how that is so much more acceptable than Stallions sending guys to games to record the signs. Yes I get it. The in-person thing "breaks the rules." But do we really think that is far worse cheating than other coaching staffs going through video and pairing it with what they learned in person during the game to share it with their rival's future opponent? Is that seriously just ok but Stallions 4th cousin recording on his cell phone is blatantly far worse and disgusting cheating and what the coaches provided is straight ethical and part of the game? If this part weren't a reality, I honestly think I'd see so much of this situation and most of the posters here that UM is simply trying to control the narrative and distract people. But this part of the reality, especially since it was a former Purdue coach that brought it to light and provided proof... this is the part that rubs me the wrong way when so many scream CHEATERS and follow it up with.. yeah this is legal stop deflecting....if any of it is cheating, it should all be cheating.
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Michigan and Harbaugh's attorneys argued Wednesday that recent evidence of other schools engaging in schemes to learn the Wolverines' playcalling signs made it clear that the team did not maintain an exceptional competitive advantage through any of its staff's efforts. They also noted the commissioner could be setting a difficult precedent if he were going to use the sportsmanship policy to punish any program or coach who was widely accused of stealing signals.
Petitti wrote Friday that the Big Ten has not received any information about other schools using "impermissible advanced in-person scouting, let alone a scheme of the size and scale like the one at issue here."
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That being said.. keep looping back to the former Purdue coach that came clean to say OSU and Rutgers gave a complete breakdown of Michigan coaches calling plays, what that sign meant and yet the only responses I see are "UM fans are just deflecting because sign sharing is legal and common." I'm really having a tough time wrapping my head around how that is so much more acceptable than Stallions sending guys to games to record the signs.
Cool. Let's ban both Purdue and Michigan from the CFP...
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Cool. Let's ban both Purdue and Michigan from the CFP...
Purdue doing a good enough job of that with their play on the field…
As for Michigan….I’m over talking about it. How many times can ya beat a dead horse?
Just gonna wait to see what happens with the hearing and then what the NCAA does in like 3 years.
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Cool. Let's ban both Purdue and Michigan from the CFP...
and the big ten champ game
the issue is, did Michigan cheat?
not did Purdue cheat, not did another program cheat, not did it give Michigan an advantage
this is ALL deflection
did michigan cheat???
I'm guessing the overwhelming evidence shows that Michigan cheated!!!!
Cheaters get punishment. I hope.
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this is ALL deflection
Deflection. It’s the new “conspiracy” word on this board.
anyone tries to take a reasonable stance and ask reasonable questions and it’s a conspiracy deflection. Maybe the MDOT route is just better.
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A reasonable stance?
Sure. Based on what is already known, Harbaugh was under penalized, but that was the most the Big Ten could do. So any whining or self victimizing is already unreasonable.
The only reasonable stance at this point is to be thankful that the big 10 imposed a non-penalty. As soon as it was announced, every reasonable take was that this was a non-penalty, but at least the big 10 could say they did something, to appease the people that wanted them to do something, but the penalty was actually nothing, so Michigan couldn't actually complain about it. Except then they built their entire victim complex around it
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Deflection. It’s the new “conspiracy” word on this board.
anyone tries to take a reasonable stance and ask reasonable questions and it’s a conspiracy deflection. Maybe the MDOT route is just better.
ok, reasonable question..........
Did Michigan cheat????
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.So any whining or self victimizing is already unreasonable.
So where is my whining and self victimizing stance? Show me.
for someone that knocks Michigan for believing they’re above everyone else, you sure as heck take that stance like you’re better than me and I’m a whiny pro-um goggled fool. And my takes haven’t been that and I’ve tried to hear people out when they speak to people with respect, yet take a firm stance.
I guess the goal of some of here is to chase everyone away that doesn’t share your view. Enjoy diminishing the quality of the board further. You don’t seem to have a problem with trash posts and tweets posted over and over but someone trying to discuss a differing view is just a high school fool that couldn’t make it to college right?
man is this place nothing like it once was.
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ok, reasonable question..........
Did Michigan cheat????
Most likely yes. All the facts aren’t out, but it very much looks like they crossed the line (aka cheated) with sign stealing.
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ok, I'm not tryin to chase anyone away
I just don't know why it matters if someone else cheated or if the cheating gave an advantage
cheating should be punished in my opinion
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Which take? Not sure I fully understand what you’re saying here.
That I graduated with 700 kids. Like 300 of them still live with their parents, but make fun of academics of other schools,.and posted #bet on their Facebook pages. Saw that same victimization from everyone on the UM payroll, all the way to President Santa. Jesus, Jim called Michigan "America's Team". Everyone I know in out neighborhood, mostly Pitt, WVU and PSU fans, are all actively rooting against Michigan. They have become the full on villain.
The UM alums I know, including multiple family members, are embarrassed. They support the team, and want to play it out, but hate playing the victim. That's pandering to the lowest denominator of UM fan, and every alum I know hates it.
The other thing Wasserman said on his podcast was that the NCAA should not punish UM at all, that just the fact that knowing that they were now not even on par with the bottom of the Big 10, but the bottom of the SEC was the worst penalty for Michigan. That going forward Leaders and Best was something other schools could laugh at them over, was penalty enough
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So where is my whining and self victimizing stance? Show me.
for someone that knocks Michigan for believing they’re above everyone else, you sure as heck take that stance like you’re better than me and I’m a whiny pro-um goggled fool. And my takes haven’t been that and I’ve tried to hear people out when they speak to people with respect, yet take a firm stance.
I guess the goal of some of here is to chase everyone away that doesn’t share your view. Enjoy diminishing the quality of the board further. You don’t seem to have a problem with trash posts and tweets posted over and over but someone trying to discuss a differing view is just a high school fool that couldn’t make it to college right?
man is this place nothing like it once was.
You said you wanted reasonable. But then apparently any criticism isn't reasonable. So it appears that what you want isn't reasonable, it's absolute agreement.
I never said you were whiny or self-victimizing. I said the general stands of Michigan coaches, players, and administration is whiny in self-victimizing. I have a hard time seeing how any alternate stance is anything but unreasonable
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You said you wanted reasonable. But then apparently any criticism isn't reasonable. So it appears that what you want isn't reasonable, it's absolute agreement.
You have a negative view of Michigan fans regardless of what they say. My interactions with people that post on here that can act like a cordial human are perfectly accepting of criticisms and have differed on opinions. I never said they were unreasonable, but simply explained how my view was slightly different and tried to explain how I came to that stance.
if I wanted absolute agreement, I wouldn’t even communicate. Multiple times i have stated I like to talk things through to hear the other side so it helps shape my stance. How is that possibly someone that wants absolute agreement? You simply shape UM fans into what you want to see, rather than what an individual one is. I don’t take kindly to that, especially when I work hard in life to have high character, firm on moral standards, yet willing to hear others out to further educate myself. This once was a place that cultivated that.
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I'm just saying the stance of the hundreds of UM fans/alumni I interact with on a regular basis. I'm not speaking for you, because you are here. But the takes of the head coach, who says he's coaching America's team, and the president of the university who is speaking like he is dealing with some sort of trauma from the outside, is in line with the takes of the Michigan fans I do interact with.
As soon as the Mel Tucker story dropped, as much as I knew it would set our program back years, I said he had to go. I didn't know the whole story. Due process wasnt complete. But simply based on what we did know at the time,.solely based on ESPN reporting, I knew we had to eat it and move on. My degree was worth more than sacrificing the reputation of the university to win a couple more football games
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You said you wanted reasonable. But then apparently any criticism isn't reasonable. So it appears that what you want isn't reasonable, it's absolute agreement.
But you were speaking of me. You can side spin it all you want, but this is evidence you were speaking directly of me saying what I want isn’t reasonable and what I do want is absolute agreement.
is this where I use the word “deflection?”
Own it when you’re wrong, especially when it’s attacking another person here.
I don’t really understand comparing Mel Tucker pleasuring himself on the phone with a sexual abuse victim with one of Michigan’s assistant coaches stealing signs and Harbaugh’s uncertain connection as comparable. If Harbaugh is tied in and there’s proof, yes fire him, but how is that relatable?
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when the Tressel story broke Bama Buckeye - who ducked out a few yrs back and I (few others too)weren't against Tressel being dismissed.The attempt to cover it up was worse than the infraction. But Tressel got cute and started telling the fans "well I'm going to suspend myself a week" which just pissed the faithfull off as it was an attempt to look remorseful at the expense of chump change - we weren't buying it. Then he comes out and goes alright Ill go two,then 3....well by that time the axe has fell.I don't think he was a bad guy but playing off others as rubes when you're spewing hooey just ain't gonna fly in most places
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But you were speaking of me. You can side spin it all you want, but this is evidence you were speaking directly of me saying what I want isn’t reasonable and what I do want is absolute agreement.
is this where I use the word “deflection?”
Own it when you’re wrong, especially when it’s attacking another person here.
I don’t really understand comparing Mel Tucker pleasuring himself on the phone with a sexual abuse victim with one of Michigan’s assistant coaches stealing signs and Harbaugh’s uncertain connection as comparable. If Harbaugh is tied in and there’s proof, yes fire him, but how is that relatable?
Yes, you said you wanted reasonable. I meant the take of every other Michigan fan I interact with, I'm not putting on you. But yes, if you are asking for reasonable, and then saying any criticism is unreasonable. The punishment, based on what is known, is actually extremely light. Due process might result in greater punishment, but it might not.
I'm not comparing the indiscretions. I'm more than willing for due process to play out to see if Mel deserves his money. I just knew I just knew immediately. I didn't want that guy devaluating my degree. And I think that's the divide. The Michigan alums I know hate what Harbaugh is doing to the school,.by turning into Auburn North. But Michigan fans are fine with it,.as.long as they win. They are defending him more with multiple level one violations, then they were 2 years ago, before he started cheating, simply because he was losing. That isn't just reasonable, that's a fact
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ELA was Ann Arbor Adam before he was ELA, so there is that. Has ELA given up his entire Michigan fandom? I can't speak to that.
There should be punishment on Michigan for what we already know. Michigan didn't seem to conduct much investigation before firing Connor Stalions. Where was his due process? Michigan knew immediately after it was accused it violated NCAA rules through sign stealing by scouting opponents. Now Michigan wants hearings on what the remainder of the coaching staff knew, even though the institution immediately knew it was guilty.
Michigan's defense is, "Don't take our away our chance of being national champions." In doing so it deflects from its responsibility by saying other schools steal signs, too, but the evidence Michigan presents is that the sign stealing of others was within the rules. Michigan's sign stealing was outside the rules.
The evidence appears to show there was a budget for sending scouts to sign steal. Michigan football sign-stealing probe began after firm obtained video from school computers, per reports - CBSSports.com (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/michigan-football-sign-stealing-probe-began-after-firm-obtained-video-from-school-computers-per-reports/) The videos were saved on the Michigan coaching staff computer hard drive. Id.
I have said on here before this that this is a fairly minor violation, only because I believe the rules will almost certainly be changed next year, after this year's fiasco. Why should the punishment for this year's violations be visited on a future innocent Michigan team and players? The punishment should be visited upon this team.
Even though the violations seem minor, because I believe the rules will be changed, nevertheless it was a huge advantage for Michigan to know what plays opponents were running before the snap.
USC's 2005 BCS national championship was vacated because one player (Reggie Bush) received financial benefits from a sports agent. There is no evidence USC knew their opponent's plays in advance. It would seem to me that knowing what play the opponent's offense will run, is a much bigger advantage than playing one ineligible starter out of 30 or so starters.
Incidentally, Connor Stalions has not publicly denied being on the sidelines incognito wearing sunglasses in CMU coaching gear at the CMU @ MSU game, as far as I know. If it wasn't him, he'd have reason to say so. Perhaps CMU has issues knowingly allowing a college football scout on their sidelines.
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- Signgate
- Harbaugh committed recruiting violations and lied to the NCAA about it
- The offensive coordinator was fired for mysterious computer crimes committed on campus
That's just this year! Not a lot of institutional control going on.
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Was at a work function last evening and saw a very respected financial advisor from my company. Had not seen him in person in severs years due to the work from home environment.
He is a guy I have great respect for. I have sent many to him for advice.
He is a big Michigan guy.
I was shocked- he came right up in my grill, in the offensive- with the party lines:
- the other teams are just jealous
- the other teams should just change their signs
-it isn’t an advantage, you still have stop the play
- were going to murder OSU, see you from the playoffs
- everyone does it
At the base of all of this is what is foundation, and so disappointing.
What happened was against the rules, was carried out over a long period in a very organized way, and was intended to gain an in- game advantage.
I was naive and thought:
-Michigan would never do something like this
-once discovered, the University would stand up and take responsibility
Their complete denial of the severity of it, and refusal to be accountable FOR WHAT IS ALREADY KNOWN is so sad. It taints the game, it taints the rivalry and it makes us question the kids playing ( who I would personally like to root for).
Instead- we get this massive PR effort to obfuscate, delay and play the victim.
And so not to confuse, I do understand and support the effort to say “we don’t know what coaches were involved, if anywhere at all” that is absolutely true, and fair. But the recognition that the impermissible activity happened and that itself is huge, is completely lost in the brass and most of the fan base.
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I'm trying to think what I'd be saying were this my team. I hate to think it would be something like the above, but it would have been when I was younger.
Now I'd probably be saying what you have at the end, hopefully nothing else. Maybe.
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- Signgate
- Harbaugh committed recruiting violations and lied to the NCAA about it
- The offensive coordinator was fired for mysterious computer crimes committed on campus
That's just this year! Not a lot of institutional control going on.
don't forget the pedo that was a support staffer...
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ELA was Ann Arbor Adam before he was ELA, so there is that. Has ELA given up his entire Michigan fandom? I can't speak to that.
There should be punishment on Michigan for what we already know. Michigan didn't seem to conduct much investigation before firing Connor Stalions. Where was his due process? Michigan knew immediately after it was accused it violated NCAA rules through sign stealing by scouting opponents. Now Michigan wants hearings on what the remainder of the coaching staff knew, even though the institution immediately knew it was guilty.
Michigan's defense is, "Don't take our away our chance of being national champions." In doing so it deflects from its responsibility by saying other schools steal signs, too, but the evidence Michigan presents is that the sign stealing of others was within the rules. Michigan's sign stealing was outside the rules.
The evidence appears to show there was a budget for sending scouts to sign steal. Michigan football sign-stealing probe began after firm obtained video from school computers, per reports - CBSSports.com (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/michigan-football-sign-stealing-probe-began-after-firm-obtained-video-from-school-computers-per-reports/) The videos were saved on the Michigan coaching staff computer hard drive. Id.
I have said on here before this that this is a fairly minor violation, only because I believe the rules will almost certainly be changed next year, after this year's fiasco. Why should the punishment for this year's violations be visited on a future innocent Michigan team and players? The punishment should be visited upon this team.
Even though the violations seem minor, because I believe the rules will be changed, nevertheless it was a huge advantage for Michigan to know what plays opponents were running before the snap.
USC's 2005 BCS national championship was vacated because one player (Reggie Bush) received financial benefits from a sports agent. There is no evidence USC knew their opponent's plays in advance. It would seem to me that knowing what play the opponent's offense will run, is a much bigger advantage than playing one ineligible starter out of 30 or so starters.
Incidentally, Connor Stalions has not publicly denied being on the sidelines incognito wearing sunglasses in CMU coaching gear at the CMU @ MSU game, as far as I know. If it wasn't him, he'd have reason to say so. Perhaps CMU has issues knowingly allowing a college football scout on their sidelines.
Michigan didn't fire Connor Stallions. They immediately suspended him WITH PAY pending an immediate investigation when they found this crap out and the story broke. Stallions resigned of his own accord. He was likely going to be fired anyways once the investigation concluded and it was found he broke NCAA bylaws by running an advanced scouting scheme. But they never fired him, he resigned.
Michigan's defense is don't punish Jim Harbaugh without proving he was a part of the scheme or knew about it and covered it up- without doing a complete and thorough investigation- which the Big Ten has CLEARLY NOT DONE (it'd literally be impossible for them to do so in such a short time span) and giving him due process and a chance to defend himself. Michigan's sign stealing may have stretched the limits, but sign stealing is NOT ILLEGAL, EVERYONE does it, and it's HIGHLY PLAUSIBLE and LIKELY that Jeem had no idea that Stallions was advanced in-person scouting. That report you linked from CBS is nothing but bullsh*t based on another unsubstantiated report from the Washington Post which was based on nothing but unnamed anonymous sources. You know, the same tabloid rag that told people for 5 years straight that Donald Trump was a Russian Manchurian Candidate based on unnamed anonymous sources, that pushed for war in Iraq based on unnamed anonymous sources telling them Saddam had WMD's. Yeah, so forgive me if I don't believe in just running with a story from a tabloid fake news rag like the Washington Post that is built entirely on unnamed anonymous sources.
Sign stealing doesn't move the needle even a fcking little bit for me. Everyone does it. You can know signs and know a play is coming- still have to fcking line up in between those lines and stop it. And the fact that other teams in the league are sharing Michigan's signals with each other is fcking hilarious. Talk about penis envy and being a scared little pussy f*ck. Holy shit. Nothing but women in this league. Fcking BITCH MADE to share info on a team you can't beat with another team in the league in the hopes that they will beat them. LOL. Definition of PUSSY.
And spare me some false dichotomy in morality over a stupid ass made up NCAA rule pulled out of a group of old geezers assholes. I don't care if schools aren't allowed to in-person advanced scout. It's a fcking stupid rule. And it's a rule that has nothing to do with sign stealing. For the 1,000,000th time, the rule was put in place not to prevent sign stealing, but because a bunch of POORS were bitching "waaaah waaaah we're so poor, we can't afford to send people to scout in person like the rich teams, waaaah, waaah, help us daddy NCAA, we're just poor welfare crackbaby teams". Newsflash: it's not 1994 anymore. Every P5 team has gobs of TV money now and can afford to send people in-person scouting. Newsflash two: teams already advanced scout with All-22 and TV copy, and they wind up getting most of the signals that way.Clemson was insanely good at that. Even Cryin' Ryan was crying about Clemson's sign stealing acumen publicly. It's entirely plausible and in fact very likely that Jeem just thought this Stallions was a sign stealing wizard akin to Clemson's guy and was getting everything from All-22 and TV copy. What's the BFD if teams scout in-person? Oh yeah, there is none- it's just some made up rule some moron pulled out of his asshole in 1994 to appease a bunch of teams that couldn't keep up with the Jonses in 1994 when no one had any tv money.
Your point about paying one player and sign stealing is......comical. Yeah, everyone steals each others signs. Not everyone has ONE OF THE GREATEST, MOST EXPLOSIVE, DYNAMIC COLLEGE RUNNING BACKS EVER. Ask any coach with even one brain cell what's more important- a player like Reggie Bush or knowing signs....LOL. A player like Reggie Bush is FAR more advantageous. That comparison is a joke. And Reggie Bush and USC going through all that- was a JOKE. These players who generate the billions of dollars should've been able to make money from day one. But hey- that's the stupid ass, useless NCAA for ya.
Connor Stallions hasn't spoken at all about anything. My guess is he is going to hide away from public eye for a while here. And it hasn't been proven that was him standing on the sidelines at CMU. Unless dude got a hair transplant or was wearing a wig....wasn't him- cause he's as bald as that penis known as James Franklin.
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See above. I rest my case.
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Your overall explanation and mindset, I completely agree with and understand what you're saying, where you're coming from and the most likely the reality of the situation. The verbiage used here I nearly completely agree with, especially stating "apparently." From the leaked ESPN reports it sounds like there is. That being said, we don't know for sure which is why I think saying the NCAA has no doubts is premature. I think they likely believe this is the case, but if there were "no doubts" i think the penalty would be harsher right off the bat. With the Tressel situation, there was no doubts (which i'll message you on directly and add some details on personally know on that topic.). I also agree with you that the Big10 is hoping for a natural Michigan loss. I would think the NCAA is more focused on $$ than making decisions, so their part I'm not convinced we know exactly where they stand.
You'll hate/dislike my response here lol. First, this scenario isnt likely. If Washington wins out, they'll be in for sure because either OSU or Michigan will lose, so it's somewhat irrelevant, but I also know that's not exactly your point. Ive asked myself this question and I have different perspectives. Michigan has really not had a game outside Penn State at this point. If Michigan wins out, which you can pretty much guarantee there's no sign stealing during their games that are actually a test, then I'm not sure how you can keep them out or be a different school that has 1 loss and complain that they're in.
Additionally, if I'm a player at say Georgia, Michigan wins out and they aren't allowed in the CFB playoff, I'd love to win my title, but a small part of me would always be pissed we didn't get to settle it on the field and another team that didn't have a loss and technically was the #2 team, wasn't allowed to settle it on the field. (that's assuming Michigan were to win out.)
Again, I'm saying that with UM homer glasses. If this was OSU in the MIchigan scenario, I could still see how UGA players would want it to play out and beat them on the field. I also not saying that's the right way to handle it, but from a player perspective, that's what I would want.
From a coach/fan perspective, if I was a #5 team.. I'd be blowing up the NCAA phone and demanding to know exactly what they have. I'd argue we have a legal right to know and it's damning enough and clear evidence that the line was WAY crossed, I'd want to be in.
Here's the other part of my answer I know you'll dislike lol.. but again, i'm trying to be reasonable and also looking for reasonable people to have honest conversation that are true football fans so that the opposing view helps shape a healthy perspective. Some of the posts here are just far from that.. some are helping do that.
That being said.. keep looping back to the former Purdue coach that came clean to say OSU and Rutgers gave a complete breakdown of Michigan coaches calling plays, what that sign meant and yet the only responses I see are "UM fans are just deflecting because sign sharing is legal and common." I'm really having a tough time wrapping my head around how that is so much more acceptable than Stallions sending guys to games to record the signs. Yes I get it. The in-person thing "breaks the rules." But do we really think that is far worse cheating than other coaching staffs going through video and pairing it with what they learned in person during the game to share it with their rival's future opponent? Is that seriously just ok but Stallions 4th cousin recording on his cell phone is blatantly far worse and disgusting cheating and what the coaches provided is straight ethical and part of the game? If this part weren't a reality, I honestly think I'd see so much of this situation and most of the posters here that UM is simply trying to control the narrative and distract people. But this part of the reality, especially since it was a former Purdue coach that brought it to light and provided proof... this is the part that rubs me the wrong way when so many scream CHEATERS and follow it up with.. yeah this is legal stop deflecting....if any of it is cheating, it should all be cheating.
I appreciate your detailed response.
I still think the NCAA/B1G have no doubt that Connor Stallions committed a violation. Beyond that may be up in the air but if that violation was to the benefit of Michigan in a game THIS year then I don't think it matters.
The Tressel situation was different because the timing was very different. IIRC, that all came out in the spring. I think Tressel ended up fired/resigned over Memorial Day. There was no need to expedite things because we were months from any games being played. In this case, as this was coming out the season was playing out. We are now about three weeks from CFP selections.
The best situation for the NCAA/B1G is, as you put it, a "natural" Michigan loss. That gets them off the hook but the fact that they didn't lose to PSU is highly problematic because they realistically probably aren't going to lose to Maryland and even if they did that wouldn't necessarily knock them out of the CFP. Even after a loss to UMD, if they beat tOSU they'll go to the B1GCG where they'll be a huge favorite and likely finish as a 12-1 B1G Champ. That has probably a 50/50 likelihood of being good for the CFP.
You read that right, "Washington" specifically wasn't my point. In any case, if Michigan gets into the CFP, there will be a "# 5" team that doesn't. No matter the situation and who that #5 team is, they'll be raising holy hell if Michigan is in. My guess, basically just assuming the favorites all win:
- 13-0 B1G Champion Michigan
- 13-0 SEC Champion Georgia
- 13-0 ACC Champion Florida State
- 12-1 P12 Champion Oregon
- 12-1 B12 Champion Texas
- 12-1 P12CG participant Washington
- 11-1 non-Champion Ohio State
- 11-2 SECCG participant Alabama
The exact order could change somewhat but my best guess is that the teams most likely to be harmed (lose out on a CFP spot) are:
- Oregon
- Texas
- Washington
- Ohio State
- Alabama
Also, I'll add this: In the hypothetical where Michigan loses to Maryland then beats tOSU and wins the CG, I think the committee would hold them out if it was even plausibly justifiable and I would completely support that. Why include a team that may ultimately have to vacate the season in lieu of another team?
As far as Michigan not really having a game until Penn State I agree but I also think it doesn't matter. The Ohio State Tattoo thing is a great example. If Tressel had been honest and reported it, it was a fairly minor violation. The kids involved would have probably been suspended three or four games. The first four games of that season were:
- Marhsall, tOSU won 45-7
- Miami, FL, tOSU won 36-24
- OhioU, tOSU won 43-7
- EMU, tOSU won 73-20
As an Ohio State fan I could argue that the Buckeyes obviously would have won the Marshall, OhioU, and EMU games even without those players but that is NOT how these things work. All of those games and the whole rest of that season were vacated. Same applies here, if Michigan cheated then they cheated and the result will be vacated and it doesn't matter that it was a game that they "would have won anyway".
As far as the Rutgers/Ohio State sharing things with Purdue:
First, I love @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) 's response. Ok, give both Purdue and Michigan a postseason ban for this year.
Seriously though, I do kinda see what you are seeing if I squint but I just don't think it matters. Coaching staffs share things all the time. As long as those coaching staffs involved obtained those things through permissible means, then I don't see a violation.
As I understand sign stealing (which I know a lot more about now than I did a few weeks ago), I think what my school should have done under the existing rules is:
- Hire Rain Man.
- Teach Rain Man football.
- Have Rain Man watch the opposing sideline during games, he'll use his autistic crazy mental abilities to discern who the hot read is and what the signals mean.
- By about mid-game, Rain Man should have a pretty good idea what plays an opponent is running at least some of the time.
AFAIK, all of that would have been legal.
Michigan fans my rush in here and say: "Well, that is (maybe) what Harbaugh and company thought that they did." That is where I think the video from the FIRST DRIVE of last year's tOSU/Michigan game is pretty damning. Stallions rather obviously knew that Ohio State was passing on a play during Ohio State's first drive of that game. Even Rain Man can't do it that quickly which is the competitive advantage of advance in-person scouting.
The other damning thing for Michigan there is that when Stallions determines that the play is a pass, multiple Michigan coaches and players begin pointing to the sky (indicating pass).
Finally, I'm frankly shocked by the response of the institution. If I were Ono, I'd stay as far away from this as possible. By sticking his head in, he is taking a substantial risk that he is going to end up going down with this thing. Why? Ono's job isn't to win football games. His job is to run a world-class University. If this were my school, I'd feel like the alums that @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) talked about. I'd be embarrassed. I want my school to win football games but not at the expense of my degree. I wouldn't want my school to cheat to do it.
Furthermore, as I see it, the fact that the University's institutional response seems to be a thinly veiled and only mildly cleaned up version of @Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595) 's response is simply asking for a harsher punishment.
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See above. I rest my case.
I avoid reading lengthy posts with hyperbole and over done BOLDING and needless profanity. It strikes me as ... puerile.
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Your overall explanation and mindset, I completely agree with and understand what you're saying, where you're coming from and the most likely the reality of the situation. The verbiage used here I nearly completely agree with, especially stating "apparently." From the leaked ESPN reports it sounds like there is. That being said, we don't know for sure which is why I think saying the NCAA has no doubts is premature. I think they likely believe this is the case, but if there were "no doubts" i think the penalty would be harsher right off the bat. With the Tressel situation, there was no doubts (which i'll message you on directly and add some details on personally know on that topic.). I also agree with you that the Big10 is hoping for a natural Michigan loss. I would think the NCAA is more focused on $$ than making decisions, so their part I'm not convinced we know exactly where they stand.
You'll hate/dislike my response here lol. First, this scenario isnt likely. If Washington wins out, they'll be in for sure because either OSU or Michigan will lose, so it's somewhat irrelevant, but I also know that's not exactly your point. Ive asked myself this question and I have different perspectives. Michigan has really not had a game outside Penn State at this point. If Michigan wins out, which you can pretty much guarantee there's no sign stealing during their games that are actually a test, then I'm not sure how you can keep them out or be a different school that has 1 loss and complain that they're in.
Additionally, if I'm a player at say Georgia, Michigan wins out and they aren't allowed in the CFB playoff, I'd love to win my title, but a small part of me would always be pissed we didn't get to settle it on the field and another team that didn't have a loss and technically was the #2 team, wasn't allowed to settle it on the field. (that's assuming Michigan were to win out.)
Again, I'm saying that with UM homer glasses. If this was OSU in the MIchigan scenario, I could still see how UGA players would want it to play out and beat them on the field. I also not saying that's the right way to handle it, but from a player perspective, that's what I would want.
From a coach/fan perspective, if I was a #5 team.. I'd be blowing up the NCAA phone and demanding to know exactly what they have. I'd argue we have a legal right to know and it's damning enough and clear evidence that the line was WAY crossed, I'd want to be in.
Here's the other part of my answer I know you'll dislike lol.. but again, i'm trying to be reasonable and also looking for reasonable people to have honest conversation that are true football fans so that the opposing view helps shape a healthy perspective. Some of the posts here are just far from that.. some are helping do that.
That being said.. keep looping back to the former Purdue coach that came clean to say OSU and Rutgers gave a complete breakdown of Michigan coaches calling plays, what that sign meant and yet the only responses I see are "UM fans are just deflecting because sign sharing is legal and common." I'm really having a tough time wrapping my head around how that is so much more acceptable than Stallions sending guys to games to record the signs. Yes I get it. The in-person thing "breaks the rules." But do we really think that is far worse cheating than other coaching staffs going through video and pairing it with what they learned in person during the game to share it with their rival's future opponent? Is that seriously just ok but Stallions 4th cousin recording on his cell phone is blatantly far worse and disgusting cheating and what the coaches provided is straight ethical and part of the game? If this part weren't a reality, I honestly think I'd see so much of this situation and most of the posters here that UM is simply trying to control the narrative and distract people. But this part of the reality, especially since it was a former Purdue coach that brought it to light and provided proof... this is the part that rubs me the wrong way when so many scream CHEATERS and follow it up with.. yeah this is legal stop deflecting....if any of it is cheating, it should all be cheating.
I guess what I would say to that is according to the Big Ten, there has been no proof of these allegations whereas they have proof of the Michigan allegations. If there is proof that Ohio State violated NCAA rules regarding this, I think I would be the first to say they should be punished.
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Your point about paying one player and sign stealing is......comical. Yeah, everyone steals each others signs. Not everyone has ONE OF THE GREATEST, MOST EXPLOSIVE, DYNAMIC COLLEGE RUNNING BACKS EVER. Ask any coach with even one brain cell what's more important- a player like Reggie Bush or knowing signs....LOL. A player like Reggie Bush is FAR more advantageous. That comparison is a joke. And Reggie Bush and USC going through all that- was a JOKE. These players who generate the billions of dollars should've been able to make money from day one. But hey- that's the stupid ass, useless NCAA for ya.
It's not comical you don't want to read because you don't want to know.Doesn't matter if it's a stupid rule Booger lied and broke it - that is a fact.He got off the hook last year for running a penetetiary team.He knew plays ahead of time that is an advantage and UM had an extensive knowledge built up.He deserves to swing you can tell the waterhead lies when he moves his lips. JEEM claimed didn't know stalions when there's plenty of footage talking to him on the sidelines.
Why wouldn't JEEM call security and have them remove the strange young man on the sideline that he doesn't know? And who is the underlined you are bellowing about above.I gotta hear this
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I avoid reading lengthy posts with hyperbole and over done BOLDING and needless profanity. It strikes me as ... puerile.
(https://media.tenor.com/3N8PVfzLlcAAAAAC/disrespect-kevin-hart.gif)
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And who is the underlined you are bellowing about.Gotta hear this
Reggie Bush....thought was pretty clear...
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I appreciate your detailed response.
I still think the NCAA/B1G have no doubt that Connor Stallions committed a violation. Beyond that may be up in the air but if that violation was to the benefit of Michigan in a game THIS year then I don't think it matters.
The Tressel situation was different because the timing was very different. IIRC, that all came out in the spring. I think Tressel ended up fired/resigned over Memorial Day. There was no need to expedite things because we were months from any games being played. In this case, as this was coming out the season was playing out. We are now about three weeks from CFP selections.
The best situation for the NCAA/B1G is, as you put it, a "natural" Michigan loss. That gets them off the hook but the fact that they didn't lose to PSU is highly problematic because they realistically probably aren't going to lose to Maryland and even if they did that wouldn't necessarily knock them out of the CFP. Even after a loss to UMD, if they beat tOSU they'll go to the B1GCG where they'll be a huge favorite and likely finish as a 12-1 B1G Champ. That has probably a 50/50 likelihood of being good for the CFP.
You read that right, "Washington" specifically wasn't my point. In any case, if Michigan gets into the CFP, there will be a "# 5" team that doesn't. No matter the situation and who that #5 team is, they'll be raising holy hell if Michigan is in. My guess, basically just assuming the favorites all win:
- 13-0 B1G Champion Michigan
- 13-0 SEC Champion Georgia
- 13-0 ACC Champion Florida State
- 12-1 P12 Champion Oregon
- 12-1 B12 Champion Texas
- 12-1 P12CG participant Washington
- 11-1 non-Champion Ohio State
- 11-2 SECCG participant Alabama
The exact order could change somewhat but my best guess is that the teams most likely to be harmed (lose out on a CFP spot) are:
- Oregon
- Texas
- Washington
- Ohio State
- Alabama
Also, I'll add this: In the hypothetical where Michigan loses to Maryland then beats tOSU and wins the CG, I think the committee would hold them out if it was even plausibly justifiable and I would completely support that. Why include a team that may ultimately have to vacate the season in lieu of another team?
As far as Michigan not really having a game until Penn State I agree but I also think it doesn't matter. The Ohio State Tattoo thing is a great example. If Tressel had been honest and reported it, it was a fairly minor violation. The kids involved would have probably been suspended three or four games. The first four games of that season were:
- Marhsall, tOSU won 45-7
- Miami, FL, tOSU won 36-24
- OhioU, tOSU won 43-7
- EMU, tOSU won 73-20
As an Ohio State fan I could argue that the Buckeyes obviously would have won the Marshall, OhioU, and EMU games even without those players but that is NOT how these things work. All of those games and the whole rest of that season were vacated. Same applies here, if Michigan cheated then they cheated and the result will be vacated and it doesn't matter that it was a game that they "would have won anyway".
As far as the Rutgers/Ohio State sharing things with Purdue:
First, I love @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) 's response. Ok, give both Purdue and Michigan a postseason ban for this year.
Seriously though, I do kinda see what you are seeing if I squint but I just don't think it matters. Coaching staffs share things all the time. As long as those coaching staffs involved obtained those things through permissible means, then I don't see a violation.
As I understand sign stealing (which I know a lot more about now than I did a few weeks ago), I think what my school should have done under the existing rules is:
- Hire Rain Man.
- Teach Rain Man football.
- Have Rain Man watch the opposing sideline during games, he'll use his autistic crazy mental abilities to discern who the hot read is and what the signals mean.
- By about mid-game, Rain Man should have a pretty good idea what plays an opponent is running at least some of the time.
AFAIK, all of that would have been legal.
Michigan fans my rush in here and say: "Well, that is (maybe) what Harbaugh and company thought that they did." That is where I think the video from the FIRST DRIVE of last year's tOSU/Michigan game is pretty damning. Stallions rather obviously knew that Ohio State was passing on a play during Ohio State's first drive of that game. Even Rain Man can't do it that quickly which is the competitive advantage of advance in-person scouting.
The other damning thing for Michigan there is that when Stallions determines that the play is a pass, multiple Michigan coaches and players begin pointing to the sky (indicating pass).
Finally, I'm frankly shocked by the response of the institution. If I were Ono, I'd stay as far away from this as possible. By sticking his head in, he is taking a substantial risk that he is going to end up going down with this thing. Why? Ono's job isn't to win football games. His job is to run a world-class University. If this were my school, I'd feel like the alums that @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) talked about. I'd be embarrassed. I want my school to win football games but not at the expense of my degree. I wouldn't want my school to cheat to do it.
Furthermore, as I see it, the fact that the University's institutional response seems to be a thinly veiled and only mildly cleaned up version of @Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595) 's response is simply asking for a harsher punishment.
this is my response to the ncaa and b1g...
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExNTVxczI2aWd6ODBtbWVwN3NnZzlnYnFoZjl6emQ3amx3azl4OXBmdyZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/oFCEGYv0ZY5WvSkZF4/giphy.gif)
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It is also pretty clear that there are repercussions for breaking rules that others had adhered to
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It is also pretty clear that there are repercussions for breaking rules that others had adhered to
rules were made to be broken. fortune favors the bold.
"Rules are mostly made to be broken and are too often for the lazy to hide behind."
Stop being lazy guys.
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this is my response to the ncaa and b1g...
Good pack your shit an go Walviegansta,but if you're going to act like them off the field at least try playing like them on it - sans the cheap shots
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rules were made to be broken. fortune favors the bold.
"Rules are mostly made to be broken and are too often for the lazy to hide behind."
Stop being lazy guys.
Have the men with the nets adjust your dosage
(https://i.imgur.com/bdk9ByC.gif)
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rules were made to be broken. fortune favors the bold.
"Rules are mostly made to be broken and are too often for the lazy to hide behind."
Stop being lazy guys.
I don't know what you do for a living, but you should consider running for office in my home state. You seem to really understand our brand of politics, and you can get hella-rich in the process.
"I am where I am because I had the balls to break the rules. Quit whining and quit being lazy." I swear that is the slogan of a winning governor's campaign in BR if I ever heard one.
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- 13-0 B1G Champion Michigan
- 13-0 SEC Champion Georgia
- 13-0 ACC Champion Florida State
- 12-1 P12 Champion Oregon
- 12-1 B12 Champion Texas
- 12-1 P12CG participant Washington
- 11-1 non-Champion Ohio State
- 11-2 SECCG participant Alabama
Seeing it posted like this is really helpful to better feel/understand your point. Honestly, it's one thing to say an undefeated team vs a 1 loss team and think there's no comparison, but teams often stumble randomly and don't bring their best game and if a team blatantly crossed a rule line, it could have helped them avoid that one stumbling block and is that team much more worthy that another conference champ that had one stumbled Saturday? Definitely understand that perspective.
Finally, I'm frankly shocked by the response of the institution. If I were Ono, I'd stay as far away from this as possible. By sticking his head in, he is taking a substantial risk that he is going to end up going down with this thing. Why? Ono's job isn't to win football games. His job is to run a world-class University. If this were my school, I'd feel like the alums that @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) talked about. I'd be embarrassed. I want my school to win football games but not at the expense of my degree. I wouldn't want my school to cheat to do it.
Rain man reference was hilarious. Also, i actually get your point about the video of the coaches on the sideline and I think that's where I'm not forming a firm opinion until more comes out. The optimistic side of me hopes the coaches all thought Stallions was doing similar work like what OSU and Rutgers prepared for Purdue and he was just "rain man" compared to everyone else, yet the pessimistic side of me considers that all the coaches knew and they collectively decided it was a stupid and dated rule and they said let's roll the dice. Somewhere in the middle and anything any distance from the forward is bad.
Lastly, this last paragraph i quoted above is what makes me wonder the most. I completely agree with that take of the responsibility of Ono and the position the University should take if there's at least reasonably solid proof of what went on.. OR they're stupid.. So it makes me wonder is Harbaugh and staff just trying to cover what they can to save their jobs and Ono is making a bad judgment call or stupid.. OR after sitting through meetings with Big10/NCAA do they know far more than the media and "sources" and there's more to the story or the picture isn't being painted correctly.
Listen, I think anyone that puts a vested interest in a team, university, company, etc hopes for the latter. No one with integrity wants to root for cheaters, dirtbags or people so clueless they don't know right from wrong.. so I'm hoping it's the latter although the forward could also be very possible and I'll be pissed that they brought shame to the University.
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don't forget the pedo that was a support staffer...
And the Ballad of Shemy Schembechler
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Michigan's defense is don't punish Jim Harbaugh without proving he was a part of the scheme or knew about it and covered it up- without doing a complete and thorough investigation- which the Big Ten has CLEARLY NOT DONE (it'd literally be impossible for them to do so in such a short time span) and giving him due process and a chance to defend himself.
Except the Big Ten clearly stated in the letter announcing the punishment (https://www.clickondetroit.com/all-about-ann-arbor/2023/11/10/read-the-big-tens-full-letter-to-michigan-on-harbaugh-suspension-sign-stealing-probe/) that they were punishing the INSTITUTION and not Harbaugh. This wasn't a punishment of Harbaugh:
We impose this disciplinary action even though the Conference has not yet received any information indicating that Head Football Coach Harbaugh was aware of the impermissible nature of the sign-stealing scheme. This is not a sanction of Coach Harbaugh. It is a sanction against the University that, under the extraordinary circumstances presented by this offensive conduct, best fits the violation because: (1) it preserves the ability of the University’s football student-athletes to continue competing; and (2) it recognizes that the Head Coach embodies the University for purposes of its football program.
Now, public perception is that it was a punishment of Harbaugh. But the public is stupid and doesn't pay attention or read anything beyond the headline. That's on them.
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As a serious note, big time college football is finally figuring out it is a professional organization given the product is worth hundreds of millions. The old timey school of discipline (vacated games, scholarship reductions) are practically laughable. They are trying to move to a newer model, but there isn't any uniform leadership, so what that could be is anyone's guess. Professional leagues typically take away draft picks, not something that applies here.
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they have been known to limit scholarships
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I guess what I would say to that is according to the Big Ten, there has been no proof of these allegations whereas they have proof of the Michigan allegations. If there is proof that Ohio State violated NCAA rules regarding this, I think I would be the first to say they should be punished.
From my understanding (which could be wrong), it was submitted to the NCAA, not the BIG10, which is why the Big Ten stated they did not have any proof of the allegations. Again, that could be UM creating haze and distraction.
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they have been known to limit scholarships
Does that matter to a school with the $$$$$ of Michigan boosters in the era of NIL?
I frankly feel the next shoe to drop in the NIL world is going to be teams stockpiling talented "walk ons" to get around scholarship limits.
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Does that matter to a school with the $$$$$ of Michigan boosters in the era of NIL?
I frankly feel the next shoe to drop in the NIL world is going to be teams stockpiling talented "walk ons" to get around scholarship limits.
I think they are already doing it, though the transfer portal acts as a bit of a check against teams hoarding talent.
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You can only play so many players obviously. I would guess nearly all of the 4+ stars think they'll make the NFL if only they can play. Look at Bo Nix.
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I think the kinds of guys that are getting paid big NIL money, are also typically the types of guys who are likely NFL candidates.
For those guys, playing time is usually equally as important as current NIL money, so I don't see many of them being willing to languish on the sideline and lose the chance at getting the playing time that will get them to the NFL.
In general the portal will act as a clearinghouse and the "NIL stockpiling non-playing talent" will not be much of an issue.
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Does that matter to a school with the $$$$$ of Michigan boosters in the era of NIL?
I frankly feel the next shoe to drop in the NIL world is going to be teams stockpiling talented "walk ons" to get around scholarship limits.
force them to do it
maybe they can limit the number of the coaching staff
limit the number of practices
there are ways to punish a program
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I think the kinds of guys that are getting paid big NIL money, are also typically the types of guys who are likely NFL candidates.
For those guys, playing time is usually equally as important as current NIL money, so I don't see many of them being willing to languish on the sideline and lose the chance at getting the playing time that will get them to the NFL.
In general the portal will act as a clearinghouse and the "NIL stockpiling non-playing talent" will not be much of an issue.
Yeah, so use your scholarships to stockpile high 3* / low 4* guys and have the high 4* / all 5* guys who are NFL-bound come in with big NIL contracts and be a starter as a "walk-on".
That way you keep your advantage with the high 4* / 5* guys you would have gotten anyway, but you have more scholarship room to build the roster depth around them AND keep those high 3* / low 4* players away from the next tier down of schools so you decrease their ability to put together a roster that can challenge you.
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Yeah, so use your scholarships to stockpile high 3* / low 4* guys and have the high 4* / all 5* guys who are NFL-bound come in with big NIL contracts and be a starter as a "walk-on".
That way you keep your advantage with the high 4* / 5* guys you would have gotten anyway, but you have more scholarship room to build the roster depth around them AND keep those high 3* / low 4* players away from the next tier down of schools so you decrease their ability to put together a roster that can challenge you.
I suppose this could happen. As far as I know, it's not happening yet. At Texas every big NIL guy is on scholarship.
ETA: Back in the day, Ricky Williams was a walk-on. He had a minor-league baseball contract that was paying him a couple hundred thousand per year, so he did not accept a football scholarship. Weird stuff, huh?
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Rain man reference was hilarious. Also, i actually get your point about the video of the coaches on the sideline and I think that's where I'm not forming a firm opinion until more comes out. The optimistic side of me hopes the coaches all thought Stallions was doing similar work like what OSU and Rutgers prepared for Purdue and he was just "rain man" compared to everyone else, yet the pessimistic side of me considers that all the coaches knew and they collectively decided it was a stupid and dated rule and they said let's roll the dice. Somewhere in the middle and anything any distance from the forward is bad.
I see the continuum there. Worst case to best case:
- "All coaches knew and they collectively decided it was a stupid and dated rule and they said let's roll the dice."
- Stallions told a few others, maybe coordinators or possibly HC.
- Stallions told them that they didn't want to know.
- The other coaches all thought Stallions was doing similar work like what OSU and RU allegedly prepared for PU and he was just "rain man" compared to everyone else.
It is kindof inherent that if you go to a tOSU fanboard, everyone is going to assume #1 and if you go to a M fanboard, everyone is going to assume #4.
Honestly it probably isn't #1 and even if it was it seems unlikely that we'll find proof of that.
OTOH, I see #4 as not all that likely as well.
Even if it actually was #4 I can construct a strong argument (and the NCAA will construct such an argument) that it was the staff and HC's job to know.
Frankly, I think it was most likely something between #3 and #4. I think there was enough evidence that the rest of the Michigan staff either knew or should have known that Stallions couldn't possibly produce the results he was producing (figuring out tOSU's signals in the first drive) without doing something that was, at best, shady. At that point, IMHO, it was incumbent upon the HC to find out. He either did (#1 above) or didn't and neither of those is a good answer for Michigan.
Lastly, this last paragraph i quoted above is what makes me wonder the most. I completely agree with that take of the responsibility of Ono and the position the University should take if there's at least reasonably solid proof of what went on.. OR they're stupid.. So it makes me wonder is Harbaugh and staff just trying to cover what they can to save their jobs and Ono is making a bad judgment call or stupid.. OR after sitting through meetings with Big10/NCAA do they know far more than the media and "sources" and there's more to the story or the picture isn't being painted correctly.
Listen, I think anyone that puts a vested interest in a team, university, company, etc hopes for the latter. No one with integrity wants to root for cheaters, dirtbags or people so clueless they don't know right from wrong.. so I'm hoping it's the latter although the forward could also be very possible and I'll be pissed that they brought shame to the University.
The Ono thing feels weird to me. It honestly has me holding back a little bit. Let me explain:
If Ono had stayed completely out of it I'd be more convinced than I already am that this was REALLY bad for Michigan. So his sticking his head in is either evidence that maybe it isn't quite as bad as we've been led to believe or else Ono is just colossally stupid*. Even if the evidence is only what we've pretty much been told, that Stallions purchased LOTS of tickets to games involving future M opponents Ono's involvement is nothing but bad for him and potentially the University.
*Stupid:
Ono is apparently a genius researcher (I would expect that from a University President) but that doesn't eliminate the possibility that he is also kinda dense wrt football and politics (not partisan politics but NCAA Politics in this case).
The thing is that Ono's involvement, I think, risks making this MUCH worse for Michigan than it already is. If the NCAA's perception is that the institution simply doesn't take this rule-breaking seriously well, do the letters LOIC mean anything to you?
Upthread @Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595) posted his "flipping the bird" response to the NCAA. That is fine for an anonymous keyboard warrior/fan but if the the NCAA feels that the University of Michigan as an institution is "flipping them the bird" they might decide that said institution needs to be taught that the rules are not for losers and that cheating will not be tolerated. It is insanely stupid on the part of the institution because the NCAA holds literally all the cards.
Another thing:
Apparently the attorney who crafted Michigan's response is also a rabid Michigan fan and and message board poster. That might not be such a good idea. One of the jobs of an attorney is to tell their client, as Kenny Rodgers would say, when to fold. The best legal advice I've ever gotten was NOT to pursue a case. You don't want your attorney to be of the "fight everybody" mindset unless you HAVE to fight. Part of an attorney's job is to help you pick your battles. Your attorney needs to be the rational one who steps in and says "I know you are really mad and you think you've been wronged, but you need to get out of this case, it is a loser."
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I suppose this could happen. As far as I know, it's not happening yet. At Texas every big NIL guy is on scholarship.
Yeah. I haven't heard that it's actually happening.
And it's possible that it won't happen and it's just some hare-brained idea knocking around in the back of my skull. After all, a coach trying this as a recruiting tactic could be seen as disrespectful to some 5* who believes they deserve the scholarship which they don't even need with the all the NIL money.
But I can also see it working: "Hey, Arch Manning, let's be honest... You're gonna be making BANK in NIL. But in order to make you as successful as we can, we want that scholarship to make sure you've got an offensive line who will give you time. If you and a couple other stars walk on, we'll be able to recruit the big uglies who aren't getting those NIL deals so that a star like you has the best ability to shine."
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I suppose this could happen. As far as I know, it's not happening yet. At Texas every big NIL guy is on scholarship.
They should pay for tuition then as they obviously can afford it - getting 2 free rides is horseshit.Ya know provided they are actually attending classes
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Yeah. I haven't heard that it's actually happening.
And it's possible that it won't happen and it's just some hare-brained idea knocking around in the back of my skull. After all, a coach trying this as a recruiting tactic could be seen as disrespectful to some 5* who believes they deserve the scholarship which they don't even need with the all the NIL money.
But I can also see it working: "Hey, Arch Manning, let's be honest... You're gonna be making BANK in NIL. But in order to make you as successful as we can, we want that scholarship to make sure you've got an offensive line who will give you time. If you and a couple other stars walk on, we'll be able to recruit the big uglies who aren't getting those NIL deals so that a star like you has the best ability to shine."
OSU took two fairly high level transfers in Nigel Glover and Lorenzo Styles, and they are both currently "walk-ons"
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Nubbz point
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A few extra bodies around the program usually won't hurt anything, but at some point that would squeeze out the traditional walk-on. You know, the kid who isn't quite worthy of an athletic scholly but who really wants to play and works hard. That would be a real shame. There's only so many people a program can accommodate.
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@medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547)
Your post is spot on. I didn't want to quote it because I think you and I have taken up some pages here, but I think we see the current state of the situation very similarly. The Ono part is seriously intriguing and I don't want to even comment on the Michigan attorney part being a poster on MGoBlog. That part is weird and is that seriously the best attorney for the situation?
And completely agree on selecting attorneys. This past year of life showed me how important that reality is so I completely understand what you're saying there.
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As a serious note, big time college football is finally figuring out it is a professional organization given the product is worth hundreds of millions. The old timey school of discipline (vacated games, scholarship reductions) are practically laughable. They are trying to move to a newer model, but there isn't any uniform leadership, so what that could be is anyone's guess. Professional leagues typically take away draft picks, not something that applies here.
this, but the product is worth billions. not millions.
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And the Ballad of Shemy Schembechler
yeesh. Jeem sure does know how to pick 'em.
I'm far more concerned with him hiring a pedo and a racist than some super-nerd fanboy who stole signs via advanced scouting in-person. That's my two cents at least. Vet your hires better Jeem.
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247 looking ahead to 2025 NFL Draft for QB's. Make the case JJ should consider returning and with more development could wind up being the #1 pick in the 2025 draft.
https://247sports.com/college/michigan/longformarticle/looking-ahead-to-the-2025-nfl-draft-qb-landscape-whos-qb1--220362733/#2302490
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Paul Finebaum in a cage match vs a 74 year old Ric Flair. Let's make this happen...I'd pay the ppv just to see that.
(https://i.giphy.com/media/12TGsewzFyNuOQ/giphy.webp)
https://twitter.com/RicFlairNatrBoy/status/1724441704743195027?s=20
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no wonder why ESPN hates Michigan and the B1G....they're losing all of their tv viewership to Fox, CBS, and NBC...
https://twitter.com/sbell021/status/1724444826882478227?s=20
https://twitter.com/thejaphyryder/status/1724463320516751706?s=20
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I can't believe our closer with A&M got scheduled at the same time as Michigan/Ohio State. All this drama I've been looking forward to, and now I'm gonna miss it.
11:00 a.m. games in Tiger Stadium should not be a thing. Ever.
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I can't believe our closer with A&M got scheduled at the same time as Michigan/Ohio State. All this drama I've been looking forward to, and now I'm gonna miss it.
11:00 a.m. games in Tiger Stadium should not be a thing. Ever.
There is no drama with Ohio State. But I get what you’re saying. 😊
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/donyaeger/2023/11/14/michigan-wolverines-put-on-your-big-boy-pants-and-play-by-the-rules/?sh=742b9db33605
Nailed it.
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https://www.on3.com/college/michigan-wolverines/news/paul-finebaum-calls-michigan-the-most-obnoxious-fanbase-in-america/
In other news, water is wet.
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I can't believe our closer with A&M got scheduled at the same time as Michigan/Ohio State. All this drama I've been looking forward to, and now I'm gonna miss it.
11:00 a.m. games in Tiger Stadium should not be a thing. Ever.
Should be a night game. Every game in BR should be a night game.
Oh, first time Texas and LSU match up in BR, we're going, right? :)
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https://www.on3.com/college/michigan-wolverines/news/paul-finebaum-calls-michigan-the-most-obnoxious-fanbase-in-america/
In other news, water is wet.
You don’t want to play that game the last 15 years.
https://www.chatsports.com/ncaa/a/5-most-annoying-fan-bases-college-football-21653
https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/905155-college-football-2011-ranking-the-25-rudest-fanbases-in-the-nation.amp.html
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/10/the-five-most-insufferable-fanbases-in-college-football
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Does that matter to a school with the $$$$$ of Michigan boosters in the era of NIL?
I frankly feel the next shoe to drop in the NIL world is going to be teams stockpiling talented "walk ons" to get around scholarship limits.
I have said this form day 1 of NIL
there is absolutely no reason to give scholarships out any more
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Everyone has a list of insufferable fan bases.
Most start with fND.
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The problem with any "most annoying fanbase" article is that the most annoying fanbase is usually a team that's winning and has a TON of bandwagon fans.
When USC was in their heyday, you had TONS of Trojan fans out and about here in SoCal. Did any of them attend the school? Of course not. It's a small private institution that none of them could afford, much less get into. Then when they started falling off? Yeah, you'd still see some, but it disappeared--especially now that we have NFL teams and one of them won a Super Bowl.
It's surprising here in SoCal how much OSU gear I saw when OSU was dominating, Alabama gear when Alabama was dominating, etc. Do I think these were OSU/Bama alumni? Or even people who had historic fandom of the program? Of course not. Michigan is certainly one of them but less so because while they've gotten to the CFP of late, they haven't actually done anything so Michigan bandwagon fans aren't coming out of the woodwork--that's Georgia (who is the new thing I see constantly here in SoCal 2000+ miles away from Athens).
There is only one fanbase that deserves to ALWAYS be atop every most annoying list. And that's Notre Dame. Any Joe Schmo who didn't go to college and is either Catholic or Irish suddenly thinks they're Notre Dame fans, despite the fact that they've never been to South Bend and couldn't find it on a map. Most probably don't even know what state it's in. And even worse are the folks in Indiana who are the reversible jacket type--Notre Dame football fan and Indiana basketball fan despite having attended neither. Blech. And Notre Dame fans are the most insufferable because they haven't done anything since the 80s. They don't even have recent accomplishments to hang their hat on, unless you count being overrated and getting destroyed every time they face REAL competition in the postseason.
But even then? While I detest most Notre Dame fans, I don't have any problem with anyone who is an alumni or actually has a family connection to the school. Hell, I even know a guy who in his blogging days was known as the Irish Trojan because he attended USC for undergrad and Notre Dame for law school (or vice versa). No reason to hate--he came by that moniker honestly.
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You don’t want to play that game the last 15 years.
https://www.chatsports.com/ncaa/a/5-most-annoying-fan-bases-college-football-21653
https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/905155-college-football-2011-ranking-the-25-rudest-fanbases-in-the-nation.amp.html
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/10/the-five-most-insufferable-fanbases-in-college-football
Here is the thing:
The problem with any "most annoying fanbase" article is that the most annoying fanbase is usually a team that's winning and has a TON of bandwagon fans.
Ohio State has been extremely consistently extremely good since basically 1993 so they are going to land on a lot of these lists. Your first and third are only lists of five so I assume they are basically "five fanbases I happen to hate" lists.
The Bleacher-Report article is from 2011. Note that this is during a time when Michigan sucked. In the three seasons prior to that article the Wolverines finished 7-6, 5-7, and 3-9. Despite sucking, the Wolverines still checked in at #14.
Here are the comments about Michigan from an article linked by a Michigan guy:
"Michigan fans rank up this high not because they throw things or are rude at games, but just because they out do us all when it comes to arrogance.
As a college football fan, the "high and mighty" attitude gets to me more than anything.
Michigan fans come in first here for many reasons. They seem to forget losses very easily and instead use that brain space to hold onto wins much too long. Pride in a team that has been weak in the Big Ten over the past few years is beyond belief.
Claiming to be better than a team that just beat you badly is crossing the line in my opinion and arguing with them is impossible. They literally will ignore you, no matter how strong your facts are. "
Obnoxious.
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https://www.on3.com/college/michigan-wolverines/news/paul-finebaum-calls-michigan-the-most-obnoxious-fanbase-in-america/
In other news, water is wet.
yeah, not even close. and that dickweeb knows that....he covers BAMA for christ sake and is Nick Saban's personal ball washer...
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The problem with any "most annoying fanbase" article is that the most annoying fanbase is usually a team that's winning and has a TON of bandwagon fans.
When USC was in their heyday, you had TONS of Trojan fans out and about here in SoCal. Did any of them attend the school? Of course not. It's a small private institution that none of them could afford, much less get into. Then when they started falling off? Yeah, you'd still see some, but it disappeared--especially now that we have NFL teams and one of them won a Super Bowl.
It's surprising here in SoCal how much OSU gear I saw when OSU was dominating, Alabama gear when Alabama was dominating, etc. Do I think these were OSU/Bama alumni? Or even people who had historic fandom of the program? Of course not. Michigan is certainly one of them but less so because while they've gotten to the CFP of late, they haven't actually done anything so Michigan bandwagon fans aren't coming out of the woodwork--that's Georgia (who is the new thing I see constantly here in SoCal 2000+ miles away from Athens).
There is only one fanbase that deserves to ALWAYS be atop every most annoying list. And that's Notre Dame. Any Joe Schmo who didn't go to college and is either Catholic or Irish suddenly thinks they're Notre Dame fans, despite the fact that they've never been to South Bend and couldn't find it on a map. Most probably don't even know what state it's in. And even worse are the folks in Indiana who are the reversible jacket type--Notre Dame football fan and Indiana basketball fan despite having attended neither. Blech. And Notre Dame fans are the most insufferable because they haven't done anything since the 80s. They don't even have recent accomplishments to hang their hat on, unless you count being overrated and getting destroyed every time they face REAL competition in the postseason.
But even then? While I detest most Notre Dame fans, I don't have any problem with anyone who is an alumni or actually has a family connection to the school. Hell, I even know a guy who in his blogging days was known as the Irish Trojan because he attended USC for undergrad and Notre Dame for law school (or vice versa). No reason to hate--he came by that moniker honestly.
this....all of this lol. BAMA fans are way up there as well. Those gumps are freaking insane....
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The problem with any "most annoying fanbase" article is that the most annoying fanbase is usually a team that's winning and has a TON of bandwagon fans.
Exactly this!!
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Exactly this!!
Yep exactly this...
But please don't allow my rational thought to stop the UM and OSU monkeys from throwing feces at each other... As an outside observer, I kinda enjoy it in a rubbernecking highway crash sort of way...
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Yep exactly this...
But please don't allow my rational thought to stop the UM and OSU monkeys from throwing feces at each other... As an outside observer, I kinda enjoy it in a rubbernecking highway crash sort of way...
Why limit yourself. Go to the MSU, or PSU or ( pick a Big ten School or any of a number of others)
They are all throwing feces at Michigan. The MSU one is by far the most entertaining. They are incredibly creative with their memes and GIFs.
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his point is that UM and OSU monkeys are ALWAYS throwing feces at each other...
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Yep exactly this...
But please don't allow my rational thought to stop the UM and OSU monkeys from throwing feces at each other... As an outside observer, I kinda enjoy it in a rubbernecking highway crash sort of way...
Most will keep going but there may be a UM monkey at the Shoe this weekend
(https://i.imgur.com/wMyKyWn.jpg)
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Most will keep going but there may be a UM monkey at the Shoe this weekend
(https://i.imgur.com/wMyKyWn.jpg)
Connor Stallions truly is a master of disguise.
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this is pretty cool...
Brady bets one of his Super Bowl rings with CJ Stroud on THE GAME
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/tom-brady-wagers-one-of-his-super-bowl-rings-with-c-j-stroud-over-ohio-state-michigan-game/
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his point is that UM and OSU monkeys are ALWAYS throwing feces at each other...
Well it's not our fault ULN/MSU/PSU/UW have folded like a deck chair on the Titanic.So they are the only target left in the BIG,we've upped our game - so up yours!!!
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A lot of smoke that the "Investigative Firm" that tipped the NCAA was US Integrity, the firm that most of Vegas, the NCAA, the B1G, and basically everyone uses to monitor to make sure games are honest (ie, no point shaving).
I still suspect it is tied to the mysterious Weiss termination but who knows.
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A lot of smoke that the "Investigative Firm" that tipped the NCAA was US Integrity, the firm that most of Vegas, the NCAA, the B1G, and basically everyone uses to monitor to make sure games are honest (ie, no point shaving).
I still suspect it is tied to the mysterious Weiss termination but who knows.
What smoke? Bucknut fckboy message boards?
And it’s not tied to Weiss at all. This has already been established. There’s nothing mysterious about it. The school found out he was accessing other university employees computers/emails without permission and fired him and reported him to police/FBI. It’s a federal crime to hack into someone’s computer or email.
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What smoke? Bucknut fckboy message boards?
And it’s not tied to Weiss at all. This has already been established. There’s nothing mysterious about it. The school found out he was accessing other university employees computers/emails without permission and fired him and reported him to police/FBI. It’s a federal crime to hack into someone’s computer or email.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=855&v=sx2KLV2HntY&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.elevenwarriors.com%2F&source_ve_path=Mjg2NjY&feature=emb_logo
might just be BS- but stop blaming it on other schools
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A lot of smoke that the "Investigative Firm" that tipped the NCAA was US Integrity, the firm that most of Vegas, the NCAA, the B1G, and basically everyone uses to monitor to make sure games are honest (ie, no point shaving).
I still suspect it is tied to the mysterious Weiss termination but who knows.
ehh.. There's nothing that tells us it's anything but US Integrity's involvement is because any "cheating" would influence the gambling outcome.
I hope everyone that wanted gambling and NIL is now happy. The most important thing is certainly $
There could certainly be more to this and Weiss involvement, but there's absolutely zero evidence besides people on twitter and Youtube jumping to conclusions based on US Integrity looking into the situation.
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What smoke? Bucknut fckboy message boards?
Well:
- So far in this the Bucknut boards have been Nostrasomus compared to the Michigan "men".
- LoL, US Integrity's involvement is almost assured although it could be this:
ehh.. There's nothing that tells us it's anything but US Integrity's involvement is because any "cheating" would influence the gambling outcome.
Then on to:
And it’s not tied to Weiss at all. This has already been established.
It has been stated but I disagree with the assertion that it has been "established". I personally have my doubts simply because whoever found this had to have access to Stallions' UM Cheating database and the most obvious and likely source of that access would be the Weiss investigation.
There’s nothing mysterious about it. The school found out he was accessing other university employees computers/emails without permission and fired him and reported him to police/FBI. It’s a federal crime to hack into someone’s computer or email.
I have asked repeatedly in this thread if anyone had more information on the Weiss termination situation and you said nothing. Now all of a sudden you throw this out there as if it is know and accepted fact.
All I've seen officially is that it was some kind of "computer access crime". Your statement above fits the definition of a "computer access crime" but I've seen nothing confirming that.
I've seen rumors ranging from as relatively benign as your statement to gambling to kiddie porn.
I have no idea and I'm genuinely curious and I still think the most likely source of the information is either:
- The Weiss investigation stumbled upon this, or
- Weiss was mad over his termination and tipped someone off.
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A lot of smoke that the "Investigative Firm" that tipped the NCAA was US Integrity, the firm that most of Vegas, the NCAA, the B1G, and basically everyone uses to monitor to make sure games are honest (ie, no point shaving).
I still suspect it is tied to the mysterious Weiss termination but who knows.
Even if Michigan is guilty of everything they are accused of, involving Vegas in this seems like a really slippery slope. What if a team plays a kid who isn't actually taking classes, so is deemed retroactively inelgible? Does that become a violation of gambling laws?
I hate this take. Vegas wants to get in bed with college sports, you get in bed with the whole damn thing.
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What smoke? Bucknut fckboy message boards?
And it’s not tied to Weiss at all. This has already been established. There’s nothing mysterious about it. The school found out he was accessing other university employees computers/emails without permission and fired him and reported him to police/FBI. It’s a federal crime to hack into someone’s computer or email.
I haven't seen any of this, and it's immaterial. I think the Weiss investigation is unrelated, but I think it seems incredibly likely that the investigation of those computer crimes is what exposed this. Purely speculative, but that seems like the most likely source to me, considering the NCAA likes to be willfully ignorant
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I have no idea and I'm genuinely curious and I still think the most likely source of the information is either:
- The Weiss investigation stumbled upon this, or
- Weiss was mad over his termination and tipped someone off.
We are starting to agree too often.
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Even if Michigan is guilty of everything they are accused of, involving Vegas in this seems like a really slippery slope. What if a team plays a kid who isn't actually taking classes, so is deemed retroactively inelgible? Does that become a violation of gambling laws?
I hate this take. Vegas wants to get in bed with college sports, you get in bed with the whole damn thing.
Vegas has been "in bed" with college sports for a long long time. I would think that *IF* any of this is true and that particular firm was involved, it would be pretty simple to understand how it happened:
- Vegas is pretty damn advanced at figuring out where to set lines for sports. It's how they make their money, so it's important.
- This firm has some sort of analysis system (whether human or via advanced analytics) that looks for outlier performance relative to lines.
- When performance consistently doesn't look like it "should", they start suspecting foul play and investigate. As CD mentions, often they're looking for something like point shaving.
- Michigan is 3rd nationally in ATS performance since 2021. (https://www.teamrankings.com/ncf/trends/ats_trends/?range=yearly_since_2021) I.e. a big red flag.
- In this case an investigation may have led them to finding this info. Not sure how, of course, as I have no idea of their capability or methods.
- Once they found the info, they alerted the relevant authority (NCAA) because Michigan was breaking the system that makes Vegas money.
Now, this is all pure speculation. However, if it's true, the above would IMHO be at least a passing resemblance to how it went down.
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- Michigan is 3rd nationally in ATS performance since 2021. (https://www.teamrankings.com/ncf/trends/ats_trends/?range=yearly_since_2021) I.e. a big red flag.
So do you think the rest of these are investigated and red flags as well? Like why is the 3rd team the big red flag when they aren't the biggest red flag? Just trying to wrap my head around it as admittedly i don't know this well AT ALL
(https://i.imgur.com/8r6KSOB.png)
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Vegas has been "in bed" with college sports for a long long time. I would think that *IF* any of this is true and that particular firm was involved, it would be pretty simple to understand how it happened:
- Vegas is pretty damn advanced at figuring out where to set lines for sports. It's how they make their money, so it's important.
- This firm has some sort of analysis system (whether human or via advanced analytics) that looks for outlier performance relative to lines.
- When performance consistently doesn't look like it "should", they start suspecting foul play and investigate. As CD mentions, often they're looking for something like point shaving.
- Michigan is 3rd nationally in ATS performance since 2021. (https://www.teamrankings.com/ncf/trends/ats_trends/?range=yearly_since_2021) I.e. a big red flag.
- In this case an investigation may have led them to finding this info. Not sure how, of course, as I have no idea of their capability or methods.
- Once they found the info, they alerted the relevant authority (NCAA) because Michigan was breaking the system that makes Vegas money.
Now, this is all pure speculation. However, if it's true, the above would IMHO be at least a passing resemblance to how it went down.
Good post.
A lot of speculation out there, which I generally don’t pay attention to. But what we do know, as fact, because Petitti said this in his 13 page report, is that US integrity was consulted on this issue, and the feedback they gave was that this was serious enough that it impacts this season.
What we don’t know is did the Big Ten and the NCAA reach out to US integrity, or did US integrity reach out to them?
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Vegas has been "in bed" with college sports for a long long time. I would think that *IF* any of this is true and that particular firm was involved, it would be pretty simple to understand how it happened:
- Vegas is pretty damn advanced at figuring out where to set lines for sports. It's how they make their money, so it's important.
- This firm has some sort of analysis system (whether human or via advanced analytics) that looks for outlier performance relative to lines.
- When performance consistently doesn't look like it "should", they start suspecting foul play and investigate. As CD mentions, often they're looking for something like point shaving.
- Michigan is 3rd nationally in ATS performance since 2021. (https://www.teamrankings.com/ncf/trends/ats_trends/?range=yearly_since_2021) I.e. a big red flag.
- In this case an investigation may have led them to finding this info. Not sure how, of course, as I have no idea of their capability or methods.
- Once they found the info, they alerted the relevant authority (NCAA) because Michigan was breaking the system that makes Vegas money.
Now, this is all pure speculation. However, if it's true, the above would IMHO be at least a passing resemblance to how it went down.
i do think you are on to something.
this smells like a Vegas investigation
I mean millions is lost or won on these games and any unfair advantage is horrible
hypothetical
what if Stallion made money off bets because he knew the team knew the signals
this can become a real shit show
if this were to happen you may never see Stallion again he will be burried with Hoffa
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It would be interesting to know, for sure, if TCU changed their signs after being warned.
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So do you think the rest of these are investigated and red flags as well? Like why is the 3rd team the big red flag when they aren't the biggest red flag? Just trying to wrap my head around it as admittedly i don't know this well AT ALL
(https://i.imgur.com/8r6KSOB.png)
This data is actually what caused me to kind of move off the "ATS record" as was brought up earlier in the thread, because it just compared Michigan to the other big name and helmet programs. I saw this and realized that Michigan could simply be a natural outlier, because in every distribution sometimes the long tail is random chance.
That said, I think there might be multiple things here:
- You're assuming by the way the question is phrased that the others were NOT investigated. Whereas it's possible that they were investigated, nothing was found, so it was determined that the ATS performance was random chance.
- It could be that the bigger programs get more scrutiny based on their being a lot more action on their games. That said, by cover percentage PSU was barely behind Michigan and ND was only one game behind.
- I posted one public web site with data on this. It's possible that US Integrity has a TON more advanced data they're working from that further singled out Michigan as an outlier.
I'm refraining from forming an opinion on how this all came out because I'm not in possession of the facts. I'm hypothesizing, however, that this could have been one avenue that is plausible.
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So do you think the rest of these are investigated and red flags as well? Like why is the 3rd team the big red flag when they aren't the biggest red flag? Just trying to wrap my head around it as admittedly i don't know this well AT ALL
(https://i.imgur.com/8r6KSOB.png)
I would ignore JMU and JSU because they are new FBS schools, and the numbers aren't great.
I think the fact that UNLV is #1 is either an issue or a big red flag.
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It would be interesting to know, for sure, if TCU changed their signs after being warned.
We do know that. Their coaches have stated that publicly.
They indicated that they were for warned by multiple other teams, and that they actually didn’t just changed their signals, but they used dummy signals to confuse Michigan
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I would ignore JMU and JSU because they are new FBS schools, and the numbers aren't great.
I think the fact that UNLV is #1 is either an issue or a big red flag.
It also has to do with departure from normal. I don’t have the data in front of me, but I have seen it posted and Michigan was running in about 45% against the spread. For many seasons. And that is a normal range they say between 45 and 55% overtime. It’s hard to beat Vegas overtime because they adjust their spreads to your performance so if you continue to be the spread, they keep raising the spread.
So the jump that Michigan took against the spread to start the 21 season and caring through the 22 and into the 23 season was a red flag.
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I will add that in Petitti’s letter, his 13 page report, he states that he has been told by the coaches that changing your signs is extremely difficult an ineffective over the short term. And then his words he “took that as credible.”
So for TCU they had over a month to work on it.
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=855&v=sx2KLV2HntY&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.elevenwarriors.com%2F&source_ve_path=Mjg2NjY&feature=emb_logo
might just be BS- but stop blaming it on other schools
not blaming anything on other schools. this whole ordeal is Michigan's fault and Michigan's fault alone for employing a whack job like Connor Stallions.
Jeem's been hiring a bunch of psychos lately. Matt Weiss, Stallions, Shemy the Super racist, and that pedo staffer. I'm sure there are a couple others I am forgetting. Jeem need to do a much better job vetting his hires...
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I have to agree. If you assume that, no other coaches, even knew which I think is a fair assumption given no evidence has been provided to the contrary, still have to wonder how a nut job like that was able to pull this off.
Even if that’s the final result, that he was in on, this is a lone wolf , damage has been significant, and will probably be somewhat long lasting.
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TCU Turned Michigan’s Sign-Stealing Habi (https://www.si.com/college/2023/10/26/tcu-michigan-sign-stealing-habits-college-football-playoff-report#:~:text=In order to mess with,a TCU coach told Dellenger.)TCU Turned Michigan’s Sign-Stealing Habit Against Them in College Football Playoff, per Report - Sports Illustrated (https://www.si.com/college/2023/10/26/tcu-michigan-sign-stealing-habits-college-football-playoff-report#:~:text=In order to mess with,a TCU coach told Dellenger.)
The reports I see say "reportedly" and "claimed" and "apparently".
TCU (https://www.si.com/college/college-football/team/tcu-horned-frogs) apparently knew about Michigan (https://www.si.com/college/college-football/team/michigan-wolverines)’s sign-stealing habit ahead of their College Football Playoff matchup last New Year’s Eve, according to a report from Yahoo! Sports’ Ross Dellenger (https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-tcu-knew-of-michigans-sign-stealing-scheme-prior-to-cfp-game-used-dummy-signals-to-dupe-wolverines-224848698.html).
“Literally everybody we talked to knew,” one unnamed TCU coach told Dellenger. “They’d say, ‘Just so you know, they steal your signals and they’re going to have everything so you better change them.’”
The NCAA opened the investigation (https://www.si.com/college/2023/10/19/michigan-sign-stealing-ncaa-investigation-jim-harbaugh) regarding Michigan’s sign stealing earlier this month, and it now has escalated to the point where it began interviewing Wolverines coaches (https://www.si.com/college/2023/10/26/ncaa-interview-michigan-coaching-staff-jim-harbaugh-sign-stealing-investigation) Thursday.
Up to this point, the investigation has centered around low-level staffer Connor Stalions (https://www.si.com/college/2023/10/20/ncaa-sign-stealing-investigation-michigan-focusing-analyst), whom the program suspended (https://www.si.com/college/2023/10/20/michigan-suspends-connor-stalions-ncaa-investigation-sign-stealing) a day after the investigation became public. Stalions allegedly purchased tickets to scout Michigan’s future opponents in person to determine their coaches’ signals, an action that is illegal in college football.
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We do know that. Their coaches have stated that publicly.
They indicated that they were for warned by multiple other teams, and that they actually didn’t just changed their signals, but they used dummy signals to confuse Michigan
and we do know that OSU changed their signs last year and had Michigan's signs and still got their asses kicked in Columbus. And every team uses dummy signals....
So make of that what you will.
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The TCU thing could be pivotal, I think, IF it is true (and not just from unnamed sources). I wonder if UGA did the same thing. I was mystified how TCU could hang with UM, much less beat them. Then UGA, who seemed to me to be on a par with UM, ran them completely out of the state.
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I haven't seen any of this, and it's immaterial. I think the Weiss investigation is unrelated, but I think it seems incredibly likely that the investigation of those computer crimes is what exposed this. Purely speculative, but that seems like the most likely source to me, considering the NCAA likes to be willfully ignorant
there is nothing but speculation and jumping to conclusions. the Weiss story broke 8-9 months ago. if this was connected, we likely would've heard/seen how by now...
Stallions was CLEARLY extremely sloppy with his whole advanced in-person scouting ring. would be REALLY easy for anyone to find out- and he obviously used a lot of other people to carry this scheme out- any one of them could've sung like a canary.
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I think the fact that UNLV is #1 is either an issue or a big red flag.
I agree but I think the fact that they are beating the spread is much less of a red flag than the opposite would be.
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The TCU thing could be pivotal, I think, IF it is true (and not just from unnamed sources). I wonder if UGA did the same thing. I was mystified how TCU could hang with UM, much less beat them. Then UGA, who seemed to me to be on a par with UM, ran them completely out of the state.
you are seriously over-thinking things....it's pretty simple. Michigan didn't take TCU seriously, played a sloppy ass game, got boned by the refs on a clear TD only to fumble the ball on the very next play at TCU's 1 yard line- and a bunch of 18-22 year olds on TCU blew their wad on a Michigan team they spent a month plus preparing for.
Upsets happen. Once TCU blew their wad on Michigan and only had a week and not an entire month plus to prepare for a team SIGNIFICANTLY more talented than them- and more talented than Michigan- well, it's a wrap.
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I see it as roughly the same as when UGA plays Kent State. UGA can play terribly and still win 37-21.
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I see it as roughly the same as when UGA plays Kent State. UGA can play terribly and still win 37-21.
except it's not the same. TCU had 8 NFL draft picks in the 2023 NFL draft- which was the 3rd most of any program in college football- including a 1st RD WR- and was QB'd by like a 300 year old 6th year SR Heisman finalist QB. Does Kent State even have 8 NFL draft picks in the last 15 years combined let alone one single draft?
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yeah just looked it up. Kent State hasn't had a player drafted since 2014. Since 2010 they've had only 3 players drafted in total...
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Connor boy didn't file any expense reports in his time at Michigan, per an FOIA that the AP filed.
Meaning, the athletic department didn't reimburse him for jack shit and was likely unaware of what he was doing.
https://twitter.com/LarryLage/status/1724886227860525242?s=20
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UGA almost never wins a game anything like 65-7.
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UGA almost never wins a game anything like 65-7.
And that means what? Oh yeah, nothing.
Again....TCU was a cinderella story that blew their entire wad on Michigan- and still BARELY won a game 51-45 in which the losing team threw TWO pick 6's, attempted to go for it on 4th down twice in FG range instead of just taking 6 points with their automatic FG kicker, and had a TD removed from the board by the officials only to fumble the ball on 1st and goal the very next play.
These are 18-22 year old kids. Not robots. TCU basically won their version of the Super Bowl beating a team by the skin of their ass that they had no reason beating in the first place.
Combination of that and Jeem being dog shit in the post-season his entire career at Michigan = them upsetting Michigan only to get steam rolled by a veteran UGA team that was even better and more talented than Michigan.
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and we do know that OSU changed their signs last year
This simply cannot be true as the B1G letter makes clear.
Ohio State has a lot of plays, not just three. Also, tOSU frequently runs HUNH where EVERY player on the field has to know EVERY sign.
Maybe if you had Krenzel at QB and you were huddling between snaps, then *MAYBE* you could install a new set of signs in a week.
That isn't the case. Today's offenses require that EVERY player know EVERY sign. Not just the smartest player, nor even the average player, even the slowest guy has to know the signs.
That necessarily has to start in Spring or certainly no later than fall. You can't do that in a week, but you might be able to do it in a month which brings me to:
you are seriously over-thinking things....it's pretty simple. Michigan didn't take TCU seriously, played a sloppy ass game, got boned by the refs on a clear TD only to fumble the ball on the very next play at TCU's 1 yard line- and a bunch of 18-22 year olds on TCU blew their wad on a Michigan team they spent a month plus preparing for.
Upsets happen. Once TCU blew their wad on Michigan and only had a week and not an entire month plus to prepare for a team SIGNIFICANTLY more talented than them- and more talented than Michigan- well, it's a wrap.
Prior to the cheating scandal becoming public, I believed more-or-less exactly what you are saying here.
That still *MIGHT* be possible but now I'm skeptical and Occam's razor does not support your view. The simplest explanation is that Michigan's sign stealing endeavor failed them or even backfired.
I'll also add this because it is more circumstantial evidence:
CJ Stroud is a lock for NFL Rookie of the Year and making a case for greatest Rookie QB NFL season in history.
Ohio State's offense last year, with the aforementioned Stroud at QB was unstoppable most of last year. They even scored 41 on a Georgia team that, according to you was:
more talented than Michigan
That unstoppable tOSU offense with soon-to-be NFL Rookie of the Year and arguably best NFL Rookie QB in history scored (checks notes) three points against Michigan in the Second half last year and 23 total.
It is possible that Michigan just played way above themselves in the tOSU game.
It is possible that CJ Stroud just randomly happend to have a REALLY bad half against Michigan last year.
It is possible that Michigan had an astonishingly bad day against TCU.
It is possible that TCU had an unbelievably good day against Michigan last year.
It is possible that TCU had an astonishingly bad day against Georgia last year.
It is possible that Georgia had an unbelievably good day against TCU last year.
None of those things are individually impossible. The probability of all of those things being true is extremely slim.
Occam's razor says that the more likely explanation is that Michigan's cheating made them look better than they were against tOSU and their inability to cheat made them look worse against TCU.
The above may not be the case but the fact that it is now the simplest and most likely explanation is Michigan's fault so if you don't like it, address your objections to Schembechler Hall.
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This simply cannot be true as the B1G letter makes clear.
Ohio State has a lot of plays, not just three. Also, tOSU frequently runs HUNH where EVERY player on the field has to know EVERY sign.
Maybe if you had Krenzel at QB and you were huddling between snaps, then *MAYBE* you could install a new set of signs in a week.
That isn't the case. Today's offenses require that EVERY player know EVERY sign. Not just the smartest player, nor even the average player, even the slowest guy has to know the signs.
That necessarily has to start in Spring or certainly no later than fall. You can't do that in a week, but you might be able to do it in a month which brings me to:Prior to the cheating scandal becoming public, I believed more-or-less exactly what you are saying here.
That still *MIGHT* be possible but now I'm skeptical and Occam's razor does not support your view. The simplest explanation is that Michigan's sign stealing endeavor failed them or even backfired.
I'll also add this because it is more circumstantial evidence:
CJ Stroud is a lock for NFL Rookie of the Year and making a case for greatest Rookie QB NFL season in history.
Ohio State's offense last year, with the aforementioned Stroud at QB was unstoppable most of last year. They even scored 41 on a Georgia team that, according to you was:That unstoppable tOSU offense with soon-to-be NFL Rookie of the Year and arguably best NFL Rookie QB in history scored (checks notes) three points against Michigan in the Second half last year and 23 total.
It is possible that Michigan just played way above themselves in the tOSU game.
It is possible that CJ Stroud just randomly happend to have a REALLY bad half against Michigan last year.
It is possible that Michigan had an astonishingly bad day against TCU.
It is possible that TCU had an unbelievably good day against Michigan last year.
It is possible that TCU had an astonishingly bad day against Georgia last year.
It is possible that Georgia had an unbelievably good day against TCU last year.
None of those things are individually impossible. The probability of all of those things being true is extremely slim.
Occam's razor says that the more likely explanation is that Michigan's cheating made them look better than they were against tOSU and their inability to cheat made them look worse against TCU.
The above may not be the case but the fact that it is now the simplest and most likely explanation is Michigan's fault so if you don't like it, address your objections to Schembechler Hall.
Nah. Not reading that. Too much wordy bullshit.
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Nah. Not reading that. Too much wordy bullshit.
Well then stop saying tOSU changed their signs because it isn't true.
Your program is cheating scum and now you are an admitted liar.
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I agree but I think the fact that they are beating the spread is much less of a red flag than the opposite would be.
Agreed, but its a weird coincidence. Not so much from their side, as the bookmakers
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And that means what? Oh yeah, nothing.
Um, yes it does. Whether it means anything regarding Michigan's cheating is debatable, but it absolutely means something
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This simply cannot be true as the B1G letter makes clear.
Even the Columbus Dispatch & Eleven Warriors reported this to be true.
Secondly, I think it's a really bad argument when people claim it takes from Spring to be able to change and learn signs when almost everyone in the country now has been saying that in-game sign stealing is very common and teams have worked to combat that for a long time. If it's that common in-game, teams have been used to changing up signs and systems consistently. I simply don't buy the argument it takes so long to change it up. Again, I could be very wrong, but it sounds like another angle for some to paint Michigan in a corner of being a cheater.
Lastly, Stroud.. Stroud had a MONSTER game. I don't get the angle about best NFL rookie and trying to act like Stroud had such a bad game against UM because UM had the signs. Stroud played lights out. He had 349 yards passing against Michigan and 348 against Georgia. Claiming Michigan shut him down isn't really an accurate statement.
Good.. we can go back to disagreeing :)
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and we do know that OSU changed their signs last year and had Michigan's signs and still got their asses kicked in Columbus. And every team uses dummy signals....
So make of that what you will.
The only part of this that is true- Michigan did kick their ass.
As Dawand Jones said, they “ tweaked “ their signals, but there is only so much you can do in a short time.
and as has been stated by many coaches, and should be obvious, when you have to change in a short period of time, what you change, it’s not the actual play signals, which are very complex and take months to learn, but what you change is how you decide who the “ hot” signal caller is.
teams can figure that out over the course of the game, especially if they actually know you’re play calls. Sometimes it takes about a half. Might align with teams that have a really good second half. Just saying..
As far as a Ohio State having Michigan’s signs-
That’s pure speculation on your part was not a shred of evidence to prove it.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IycSMjFGDg
This is actually great to watch. Stroud has been a great QB to watch the last few years and this is every play vs UM last year. I'd say OSU's biggest problem was their O-line. And I don't think you can blame "signs" because it's very often, especially the second half you see Michigan rushing 4 and yet beating the O-line often and Stroud has to get rid of the ball quickly. Winning in the trenches due to signs? I don't buy that.
Secondly, Michigan DB's make some incredible plays to save TDs. Sainristril especially on the play where Stover had him beat, caught the ball and Sainristril knocks the ball out. Again, nothing to do with signs because Sainristril was beat.
I'm sure knowing signs can have an impact but sometimes talent just makes massive plays in a moment you can tell it was just talent doing their thing.
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i cant believe no other coach knew about this or questioned where the knowledge came from
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Even the Columbus Dispatch & Eleven Warriors reported this to be true.
Secondly, I think it's a really bad argument when people claim it takes from Spring to be able to change and learn signs when almost everyone in the country now has been saying that in-game sign stealing is very common and teams have worked to combat that for a long time. If it's that common in-game, teams have been used to changing up signs and systems consistently. I simply don't buy the argument it takes so long to change it up. Again, I could be very wrong, but it sounds like another angle for some to paint Michigan in a corner of being a cheater.
Lastly, Stroud.. Stroud had a MONSTER game. I don't get the angle about best NFL rookie and trying to act like Stroud had such a bad game against UM because UM had the signs. Stroud played lights out. He had 349 yards passing against Michigan and 348 against Georgia. Claiming Michigan shut him down isn't really an accurate statement.
Good.. we can go back to disagreeing :)
On changing signs, this is my guess:
If I were designing a system, I think I'd teach my team say three complete sign systems. So let's say the sign for a TB run off LT is:
- A picture of Jim Tressel
- A picture of John Cooper
- A picture of Earle Bruce
Then, as per usual, I'd have three or four signalers and only one of them would be "hot" with the other two throwing up dummy signs.
Thus, I would have two ways to confuse opposing sign stealers:
- I could switch between system 1, system 2, and system 3, and
- I could switch the "hot" signaler.
If I had four signalers, this would effectively give me 12 systems:
- Signaler 1, system 1
- Sig 1, sys 2
- 1,3
- 2,1
- 2,2
- 2,3
- 3,1
- 3,2
- 3,3
- 4,1
- 4,2
- 4,3
If the opposing team was using the legal (Rain Man) method to decipher my signs, I *THINK* this would be enough to stay ahead of them for a game.
The whole game changes if the opponent already learned all three of my systems from advance in-person scouting with video and time to rewatch and code-break by reverse engineering my signs.
At that point they would enter the game already knowing that my three alternative signs for TB run off LT are the three aforementioned pictures of past tOSU coaches. Once I run that play, they'll be able to figure out which system I'm using and who the "hot" signaler is.
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Well then stop saying tOSU changed their signs because it isn't true.
Your program is cheating scum and now you are an admitted liar.
Columbus Dispatch just made it up, amirite?
https://www.dispatch.com/story/sports/college/football/2023/10/20/ohio-state-football-alleges-it-changed-signs-before-2022-michigan-game/71256859007/
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Um, yes it does. Whether it means anything regarding Michigan's cheating is debatable, but it absolutely means something
No, no it really doesn't. Transitive property in professional football- let alone college football where the players are 18-22 year old kids doesn't work. Ever. Just because UGA beat the brakes off TCU 65-7 and didn't beat the brakes off say South Carolina that year- means absolutely nothing. Less than nothing, actually.
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During the regular season? Sure. The athletic writers always bring up dome games. That is what has removed the unpredictability from college football. Could Georgia get got on a random October Saturday in Columbia? Sure. But when it comes to dome games, the results have always reflected where the teams are
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take it from you know, an actual football guy....not some loser meidiot who has never played the game....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsIQHF6DKPY
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I'll trust anyone Rich Eisen gives airtime to about as much as I'll trust 11 Warriors
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I'll trust anyone Rich Eisen gives airtime to about as much as I'll trust 11 Warriors
11 warriors is nothing but a bunch of fck boy living in their moms basement Ohio State die-hard nutjob retard bloggers.....
Eisen interviews, you know, actual NFL/football people....sooooo yeah....totally not the same thing...
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11 warriors is nothing but a bunch of fck boy living in their moms basement Ohio State die-hard nutjob retard bloggers.....
Eisen interviews, you know, actual NFL/football people....sooooo yeah....totally not the same thing...
Cool. He's also a UM alum/slappy, so I don't really need his take, or anyone whose take he wants to put on air.
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Cool. He's also a UM alum/slappy, so I don't really need his take, or anyone whose take he wants to put on air.
yeah, cool story bro....except that wasn't his take....it was former college football player, NFL scout/NFL exec Daniel Jeremiah's take- who he's had on his show 100,000,000 times before any of this crap.
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Columbus Dispatch just made it up, amirite?
https://www.dispatch.com/story/sports/college/football/2023/10/20/ohio-state-football-alleges-it-changed-signs-before-2022-michigan-game/71256859007/
Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit is it.
Look @Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595) adults are talking, you don't have anything to add.
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(https://i.imgur.com/DguUz0Z.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/lI98rP7.jpg)
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11 warriors is nothing but a bunch of fck boy living in their moms basement Ohio State die-hard nutjob retard bloggers.....
(https://i.imgur.com/aBDiCs4.png)
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yeah, cool story bro....except that wasn't his take....it was former college football player, NFL scout/NFL exec Daniel Jeremiah's take- who he's had on his show 100,000,000 times before any of this crap.
If an Arizona alum, who was assigned the OSU beat, and is now a national writer is apparently an OSU slappy then an actual UM alum, I don't care who he puts on, his MO is clear. Should I say Desmond Howard and Rich Eisen are retard fuck twat peg boys? Then is my take more legit? I don't care what any UM or OSU alums say, or who they give air time to. They both have agendas, and I don't have time for either of them or their slappys
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The poll at the top of this thread is out of date. Maybe change it to:
The outcome of tomorrow's court hearing in Ann Arbor will be:
a. The request for a temporary restraining order is refused
b. The request for a temporary restraining order is granted
c. The judge will throw out wholesale the Big Ten's case and penalties levied against Michigan
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The poll at the top of this thread is out of date. Maybe change it to:
The outcome of tomorrow's court hearing in Ann Arbor will be:
a. The request for a temporary restraining order is refused
b. The request for a temporary restraining order is granted
c. The judge will through out wholesale the Big Ten's case and penalties levied against Michigan
LoL:
A is likely.
B could be appealed to Federal Court.
C isn't even on the table.
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https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38907540/michigan-jim-harbaugh-big-ten-sign-stealing-suspension-hearing
Actually- those 3 possible scenarios do exist (A,B and C).
As you can see from the attached article- which Is perfectly fair and balanced- the request for injunction is based on 2 specific things:
1. Does the Big commissioner have the authority to act
2. Is the punishment allowed to be directed at Harbaugh given it is stated up front that there is no evidence connecting him to the illegal activities.
It could go any of these paths.
Notice what it IS NOT BEING DISCUSSED. Whether or not the illegal activity occurred.
That’s why this is all just fluff. It’s all about spinning a narrative- at this point in time.
When the NCAA is finished, we will find out if, and how much if at all, the penalties will be.
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My guess is B
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My guess is B
Same. Or maybe the two teams of attorneys meet in the middle and stop it after 2 games. ???
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Same. Or maybe the two teams of attorneys meet in the middle and stop it after 2 games. ???
There are some rumblings of that
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Here is my perfect scenario. UGA beats Bama in the SECCG because I don't want to watch Bama win the conference or even have a shot to sniff the playoffs. Michigan beats UGA in the playoffs because I don't want to watch UGA win a 3rd straight NC. Then Harbaugh rage-quits Michigan, giving the middle finger to the NCAA and media, also cup-checking Ryan Day on his way out, Ric Flair style, and then Michigan goes back to Carr/Hoke levels of coaching. Day, suffering from lingering and nagging ballsack pain, resigns from Ohio State and they go back to perpetually losing to SEC teams.
Basically, I'd like everyone but us to ultimately fail :)
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Michigan goes back to Carr/Hoke levels of coaching.
And DiNardo back to Baton Rouge!
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For many years after running him off, M fans yearned for Carr-level coaching.
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And DiNardo back to Baton Rouge!
Can't afford Kelly's buyout.
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Here is my perfect scenario. UGA beats Bama in the SECCG because I don't want to watch Bama win the conference or even have a shot to sniff the playoffs. Michigan beats UGA in the playoffs because I don't want to watch UGA win a 3rd straight NC. Then Harbaugh rage-quits Michigan, giving the middle finger to the NCAA and media, also cup-checking Ryan Day on his way out, Ric Flair style, and then Michigan goes back to Carr/Hoke levels of coaching. Day, suffering from lingering and nagging ballsack pain, resigns from Ohio State and they go back to perpetually losing to SEC teams.
And Texas wins out and wins the national championship.
I'll take it!
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For many years after running him off, M fans yearned for Carr-level coaching.
As I always say, fans at whatever level of success they have feel they're entitled to more, so they'll throw a good coach to the wolves for a coach who can take them to "the next level".
But "next" != "higher" most of the time...
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As I always say, fans at whatever level of success they have feel they're entitled to more, so they'll throw a good coach to the wolves for a coach who can take them to "the next level".
But "next" != "higher" most of the time...
Eh.. When you have Chad Henne, Mike Hart, Mario Manningham and Jake Long and find a way to lose to Appalachian State in the most embarrassing college football loss possibly ever, fans tend to take that pretty hard. Add to it only scoring 3 points against your rival with that offense and fans will think maybe your time has passed.
Then add in creating obstacles and making harder behind the scenes for RichRod and yeah, fans will hold a grudge and forget about the good times because the actions don't seem like they are for the betterment of the University. They seem like they are selfish and egotistical in nature.
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I think he would have turned it around.
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Michigan apparently accepts the suspension.
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As I always say, fans at whatever level of success they have feel they're entitled to more, so they'll throw a good coach to the wolves for a coach who can take them to "the next level".
But "next" != "higher" most of the time...
I've been posting on Dawg Post how I'm tired of Kirby and want him fired.
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Didn’t have that one on my bingo card.
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Didn’t have that one on my bingo card.
Rumors this afternoon that the Big Ten disclosed some of their interviews with Michigan, and there were admissions of knowledge. Then just before the news dropped Steve Clinkscale, the co-DC, deactivated all of his social media. He had been Tweeting recruits as recently as yesterday, and then deleted his profile this afternoon. So I'm guessing that's not unrelated
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https://twitter.com/bigten/status/1725248522767757508?s=19
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Rumors this afternoon that the Big Ten disclosed some of their interviews with Michigan, and there were admissions of knowledge. Then just before the news dropped Steve Clinkscale, the co-DC, deactivated all of his social media. He had been Tweeting recruits as recently as yesterday, and then deleted his profile this afternoon. So I'm guessing that's not unrelated
Please be true.
I think we all know that there is simply no way that Stallions did all of this as a lone wolf but I've been thinking that knowing that and proving it are completely different issues. If they actually have admissions or proof then Michigan is toast and they dropped the legal challenge in the *HOPE* that they can avoid a postseason ban until AFTER the 2023 season.
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The timing would make sense- since- to my understanding- they just finished (NCAA) interviewing at UM and CMU.
I also noticed that the statement released by the Big Ten conference it doesn’t even mention their own investigation, and that’s because I don’t really think there was one. They got their information from the NCAA, and obviously that investigation continues.
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The timing would make sense- since- to my understanding- they just finished (NCAA) interviewing at UM and CMU.
I also noticed that the statement released by the Big Ten conference it doesn’t even mention their own investigation, and that’s because I don’t really think there was one. They got their information from the NCAA, and obviously that investigation continues.
I don't think they want to find anything and if Michigan isn't going to fight them, they are more than happy to not have to look
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I think we all know that there is simply no way that Stallions did all of this as a lone wolf but I've been thinking that knowing that and proving it are completely different issues. If they actually have admissions or proof then Michigan is toast and they dropped the legal challenge in the *HOPE* that they can avoid a postseason ban until AFTER the 2023 season.
lol. How exactly do we all know that? That's what you are hoping is true but we all don't know one way or another.
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I don't think they want to find anything and if Michigan isn't going to fight them, they are more than happy to not have to look
They just want to let the NCAA do their job.
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lol. How exactly do we all know that? That's what you are hoping is true but we all don't know one way or another.
Because "low level" staffers don't stand next to freaking coordinators during games and have input on play calls.
Seriously, if this was a school you are neutral about you'd know that too.
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Because "low level" staffers don't stand next to freaking coordinators during games and have input on play calls.
Seriously, if this was a school you are neutral about you'd know that too.
No. I’m not an assumption guy. I’m a facts guy and although I can connect dots that make sense, I don’t claim those to be 100% factual if it’s not proven by more than assumption.
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No. I’m not an assumption guy. I’m a facts guy and although I can connect dots that make sense, I don’t claim those to be 100% factual if it’s not proven by more than assumption.
Fact:
Michigan cheated. This is no longer alleged as Michigan isn't even disputing the fact that Stallions did orchestrate a system to scout in an effort to steal signs and in violation of NCAA rules.
Fact:
The staffer (Stallions) stood next to coordinators during games and had input in play calls.
Question:
Why did Harbaugh et al allow this "low level" staffer to take up Coordinator time/attention during games?
Reality:
The Michigan staff up to and including Harbaugh knew or should have known what was going on.
New allegation (reported by a Michigan guy as the reason scUM dropped their suit):
At least one staffer beyond Stallions has been shown to be aware.
Pure speculation:
The Michigan posters seem convinced that there was a whistle blower. My guess is that, for once, they are right.
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And yet it still could be a reality that he impacted coordinators calling plays because he sold people on the idea that his Navy training allowed him to determine plays coming by his research and studying of film the proper way.
Anyone that says that's 100% not possible or couldn't possibly be true is simply looking and hoping they can scream cheater.
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I hope they're not given a post-season ban this year if they beat Ohio State. This is still a collection of players that was put together, regardless of whether their coaches cheated to help them or not. It's still a team that's out there, and purely as a fan I want to see how they stack up against other playoff teams.
If they can't make the playoffs, I care a lot less and I guess I say go ahead and do whatever the NCAA/B1G is itching to do to them.
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And yet it still could be a reality that he impacted coordinators calling plays because he sold people on the idea that his Navy training allowed him to determine plays coming by his research and studying of film the proper way.
Anyone that says that's 100% not possible or couldn't possibly be true is simply looking and hoping they can scream cheater.
I think that is unlikely but I'll concede not 100% impossible. That said, I don't think it matters for two reasons:
First, under a "knew or should have known" standard, the defense you are suggesting of "Well I was just snowed by this conman" doesn't stand up. Harbaugh et al can claim stupidity and ignorance but they still should have known.
Second, "knew or should have known" isn't even the standard. The NCAA stipulates that a HC is responsible for what goes on in his program. Full stop. Not just the things he provably knew nor even the things he knew or "should have known", EVERYTHING.
This program is already responsible for the biggest cheating scandal in the modern history of college basketball. Now they are responsible for the biggest cheating scandal in the modern history of college football as well. You want to defend that?
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I hope they're not given a post-season ban this year if they beat Ohio State. This is still a collection of players that was put together, regardless of whether their coaches cheated to help them or not. It's still a team that's out there, and purely as a fan I want to see how they stack up against other playoff teams.
If they can't make the playoffs, I care a lot less and I guess I say go ahead and do whatever the NCAA/B1G is itching to do to them.
I think there is almost zero chance of that. That would be under the NCAA rules/penalties, and I just don't see them moving that quickly.
What COULD happen- is anything they win (Big Title, CFP) might be "vacated" later.
To me- that's the saddest part of this. I have separated the skill/talent/potential of the UM players throughout this conversation. That's because on that topic- I really think they are the best team. Been saying that all along. That idiot Stalions did not need to add the extra surveillance.
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So long as they are cooperating fully!
My favorite utterance in the rolodex of the accused.
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I hope they're not given a post-season ban this year if they beat Ohio State. This is still a collection of players that was put together, regardless of whether their coaches cheated to help them or not. It's still a team that's out there, and purely as a fan I want to see how they stack up against other playoff teams.
If they can't make the playoffs, I care a lot less and I guess I say go ahead and do whatever the NCAA/B1G is itching to do to them.
would you rather have next year's team punished?
Yes, it's terrible for the players. I feel for them.
the coaches responsible should be severely punished
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would you rather have next year's team punished?
I would rather not get so interested in a team that piques my interest for playoff matchups. If they were to be banned next year at least I'd go into the season knowing a potential Mich/uga matchup isn't gonna happen.
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This program is already responsible for the biggest cheating scandal in the modern history of college basketball. Now they are responsible for the biggest cheating scandal in the modern history of college football as well. You want to defend that?
biggest cheating scandal? That’s a pretty big leap when in reality nothing new came out today outside of Harbaugh not fighting the suspension. When in reality, we don’t truly know the reason why. Your side will immediately jump to “because he’s guilty and got caught.” While that could be true, we don’t know if it is.
Secondly, you’re going to call this deflecting, but it’s beyond comical that you jump to worst case scenario for Michigan calling them the biggest cheaters ever yet you completely dismiss Ohio State’s scandal and claim “big deal it was just tattoos.”
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/7217079/ncaa-slaps-ohio-state-buckeyes-failure-monitor-charge
Just tattoos is a sham and Ohio State made deals to keep the ncaa from digging more or simply they both agreed that the truth needed to be kept quiet so the money making machine could keep going.
As someone that personally was in the circle of people involved, it was not simply minor dollar amounts for a charity event. And without risking one of the most powerful families in NEO trying to track down the person behind my name if I share details, I’ll just leave it there.
So to knock Michigan, the probably made an agreement so the details will not truly be known so the money machine can keep going, but their biggest rival certainly has done the same.
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Read a lot of plausible explanations elsewhere but it feels like Michigan caved.
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Read a lot of plausible explanations elsewhere but it feels like Michigan caved.
Possible, but it's also the smart move at this point.
1. Make the case less of a distraction from the outside.
2. Internalize the negative energy and turn it into a positive.
3. Win the B1G.
4. Win the MNC.
5. Booger rides off into the sunset, with his middle finger firmly in air.
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Possible, but it's also the smart move at this point.
1. Make the case less of a distraction from the outside.
2. Internalize the negative energy and turn it into a positive.
3. Win the B1G.
4. Win the MNC.
5. Booger rides off into the sunset, with his middle finger firmly in air.
I think I agree with this.
I think it's a smart move to wrap things up with the B1G and finish this crap- rather than drag it out even longer with a legal battle. It's a bad look for the conference if one of it's major brands is in a legal battle with the conference.
Typically the best idea in most situations is to avoid litigation if possible imo.
And you're right, Jeem is done at Michigan imo. Going back to the NFL.
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For many years after running him off, M fans yearned for Carr-level coaching.
100%. RichRod and Hoke were literal disasters.
LC was a beloved coach until Jim Tressel arrived. Dude went 1-6 vs Tressel. If he was 4-3 or even 3-4 he wouldn't have caught as much shit as he did.
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Similar To what Nixon did at Watergate,all of the polls at that time had him ahead on all cards.He didn't need to cheat to win
Funny you mention that.
When Nixon resigned, Michigan alum Gerald Ford took the helm.
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Fact:
Michigan cheated. This is no longer alleged as Michigan isn't even disputing the fact that Stallions did orchestrate a system to scout in an effort to steal signs and in violation of NCAA rules.
Fact:
The staffer (Stallions) stood next to coordinators during games and had input in play calls.
Question:
Why did Harbaugh et al allow this "low level" staffer to take up Coordinator time/attention during games?
Reality:
The Michigan staff up to and including Harbaugh knew or should have known what was going on.
New allegation (reported by a Michigan guy as the reason scUM dropped their suit):
At least one staffer beyond Stallions has been shown to be aware.
Pure speculation:
The Michigan posters seem convinced that there was a whistle blower. My guess is that, for once, they are right.
So basically Michigan's position is this
-No one the staff up to and including Harbaugh knew anything about his network,let's call them the Film Crew
-Stalions financed his entire operation completely out of pocket and never filed an expense account?
-Somehow Stalions,on a 55K a year salary,was able to secure a mortgage for a $485K House
-And most importantly, the HC plus the OC & DC let this guy hover around them on the sidelines during a game and call out what set they should be in or what look they should go with. And no one posed the question - Who the hell is this GUY? or where he got all the laminated sheets with the information on them? Sounds legit
IMHO - The Big 10 and NCAA already knew something is askew, the investigation now is to find out how deep it went and how Connor was getting funded.
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The most likely explanation I heard was Michigan's Board of Reagents went around their own counsel, the local counsel, and made a deal in the best interests of something. In other words, caved. Also, heard Jim Harbaugh did not agree to this. Unclear if Michigan's AD or President agreed or not. Another rumor circulating before this was that Michigan was going to extend Harbaugh's contract the week of the Ohio State game. Time will tell if that happens or not.
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The most likely explanation I heard was Michigan's Board of Reagents went around their own counsel, the local counsel, and made a deal in the best interests of something. In other words, caved. Also, heard Jim Harbaugh did not agree to this. Unclear if Michigan's AD or President agreed or not.
I was going to mention this, which is also why I think he rides off with middle finger firmly in air. Middle finger for all - including his boss and the regents.
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Check me to see if I have the scenario correct here.
Opposition flashes signs to offense (or D).
Stalions on sideline has a playsheet with their signs (many of them anyway). He looks down and sees "Pass play", maybe with some more detail, like to tight end, or screen, whatever.
He "whispers" to the OC/DC "Pass play" and the DC changes his signs.
This sequence should be pretty obvious on video, no?
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yes
no???
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Check me to see if I have the scenario correct here.
Opposition flashes signs to offense (or D).
Stalions on sideline has a playsheet with their signs (many of them anyway). He looks down and sees "Pass play", maybe with some more detail, like to tight end, or screen, whatever.
He "whispers" to the OC/DC "Pass play" and the DC changes his signs.
This sequence should be pretty obvious on video, no?
And, it is.
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Check me to see if I have the scenario correct here.
Opposition flashes signs to offense (or D).
Stalions on sideline has a playsheet with their signs (many of them anyway). He looks down and sees "Pass play", maybe with some more detail, like to tight end, or screen, whatever.
He "whispers" to the OC/DC "Pass play" and the DC changes his signs.
This sequence should be pretty obvious on video, no?
Correct.. and none of that breaks the rules nor does it clearly demonstrate rules were violated to the other staff.
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The most likely explanation I heard was Michigan's Board of Reagents went around their own counsel, the local counsel, and made a deal in the best interests of something. In other words, caved. Also, heard Jim Harbaugh did not agree to this. Unclear if Michigan's AD or President agreed or not. Another rumor circulating before this was that Michigan was going to extend Harbaugh's contract the week of the Ohio State game. Time will tell if that happens or not.
To be clear, there is no “ deal”.
Michigan got nothing. They voluntarily pulled their TRO request- which dismissed with prejudice.
If you read the statement released by the University, it is nothing like the statement released by the big 10. Polar opposites.
You need to stop believing the stream of BS that has been fed to you by “Michigan insiders”. They have been dead wrong in everything. And they dragged the fan base with them.
The Big Ten did not stop It’s investigation because there never was a Big Ten investigation. The conference does not have an investigative arm or any investigation employees. They only got involved because the NCAA presented them with evidence and they felt the evidence was so strong and urgent that they had to step in because it involved games this season.
there could be any number of reasons why Michigan did such a violent about face from just a few days ago, where it was all about “us against everybody“ and”bet” and “ we have a manifesto, and we’re going to bring the other conference members down with us”
there is a lot of speculation out there as to the Y, but eventually it will all come out. Rumors of even more evidence and other coaches, being involved, rumors of the CMU thing having blown up, and several other rumors. A Ton of smoke, but who knows.
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The scenario is pretty limited on time, obviously a no huddle renders it ineffective. While the offense is looking for the sign and reading whatever is on their wrists, the defense has to look for their signs, and adjust accordingly.
And of course the alleged rule breaking occured much earlier. This is how it would be implemented to advantage, if it was.
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And, it is.
I will add- that is not against the rules.
If the knowledge of those signs was obtained via advanced in person scouting and recording- that majorly breaks the rules. And that was what the Big ten said they received overwhelming evidence of, from the NCAA
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biggest cheating scandal? That’s a pretty big leap when in reality nothing new came out today outside of Harbaugh not fighting the suspension. When in reality, we don’t truly know the reason why. Your side will immediately jump to “because he’s guilty and got caught.” While that could be true, we don’t know if it is.
Secondly, you’re going to call this deflecting, but it’s beyond comical that you jump to worst case scenario for Michigan calling them the biggest cheaters ever yet you completely dismiss Ohio State’s scandal and claim “big deal it was just tattoos.”
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/7217079/ncaa-slaps-ohio-state-buckeyes-failure-monitor-charge
Just tattoos is a sham and Ohio State made deals to keep the ncaa from digging more or simply they both agreed that the truth needed to be kept quiet so the money making machine could keep going.
As someone that personally was in the circle of people involved, it was not simply minor dollar amounts for a charity event. And without risking one of the most powerful families in NEO trying to track down the person behind my name if I share details, I’ll just leave it there.
So to knock Michigan, the probably made an agreement so the details will not truly be known so the money machine can keep going, but their biggest rival certainly has done the same.
I'm not responding to "I know something bad about Ohio State but I can't tell you what it is, nor how bad, nor how I know."
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To be clear, there is no “ deal”.
Michigan got nothing. They voluntarily pulled their TRO request- which dismissed with prejudice.
If you read the statement released by the University, it is nothing like the statement released by the big 10. Polar opposites.
https://wpde.com/resources/pdf/4b23e27d-6302-4298-abd2-6ba5f2ccf967-112837d945254b239b13f58d1103517fCorrespondence_from_conference_to_institution_dated_Nov_10_2023.pdf
Number 1)The Extraordinary Nature of the Offending Conduct and Information Obtained by the Conference - Ouch
Do Wolverine fans get a refund for their "UM vs Everybody" Hoodies?
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I'm not responding to "I know something bad about Ohio State but I can't tell you what it is, nor how bad, nor how I know."
I totally get your response. I think we probably are still about 15 minutes away from each other. If you want to ever hear it face to face, i'll happily share it. I'm just not putting it in writing lol. Plus it's probably been 10 years since our paths crossed. Probably time again.
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I totally get your response. I think we probably are still about 15 minutes away from each other. If you want to ever hear it face to face, i'll happily share it. I'm just not putting it in writing lol. Plus it's probably been 10 years since our paths crossed. Probably time again.
Endorsed.
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Possible, but it's also the smart move at this point.
1. Make the case less of a distraction from the outside.
2. Internalize the negative energy and turn it into a positive.
3. Win the B1G.
4. Win the MNC.
5. Booger rides off into the sunset, with his middle finger firmly in air.
So what has actually been accomplished so far? Harbaugh remains suspended for games through the regular season? What about the B1GCG? Playoffs?
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So what has actually been accomplished so far? Harbaugh remains suspended for games through the regular season? What about the B1GCG? Playoffs?
He is not suspended for those
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He is not suspended for those
Very interesting. Do you think that changes? I don’t think anyone would suspend a coach or player for something they may not be a part of until they are officially a part of it.
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Why was Harbaugh suspended if the BIG confirmed it is not aware of any information the JEEM was involved? Probably wants to avoid certain things being exposed in a hearing and accept the punishment. Like a plea deal. They could fight it and end up having more dirt exposed.
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I totally get your response. I think we probably are still about 15 minutes away from each other. If you want to ever hear it face to face, i'll happily share it. I'm just not putting it in writing lol. Plus it's probably been 10 years since our paths crossed. Probably time again.
Endorsed.
Probably is but, as I might have mentioned here, I have four kids now.
When we went to that tOSU/M BB game in Columbus I was single with no kids so . . . I had a bit more freetime.
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Very interesting. Do you think that changes? I don’t think anyone would suspend a coach or player for something they may not be a part of until they are officially a part of it.
It all seems like nothing but optics to me. The suspension isn't much of a punishment. Harbaugh still coaches all week, he just isn't on the sideline.
B1G gets to say "look, we did something".
Michigan gets to play the "everyone out to get us / Us vs World" card.
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Why was Harbaugh suspended if the BIG confirmed it is not aware of any information the JEEM was involved? Probably wants to avoid certain things being exposed in a hearing and accept the punishment. Like a plea deal. They could fight it and end up having more dirt exposed.
The B1G covered this in Petitti's letter to UM. Even on the first page. You should read it.
They made it CLEAR that they have no evidence that Harbaugh had knowledge of this, and that this is a punishment of the UNIVERSITY and not of Harbaugh. The head football coach being the "face" of the program makes is such that the punishment involves removing him from the sideline. But the B1G is not alleging wrongdoing on Harbaugh's behalf nor are they punishing HIM.
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It all seems like nothing but optics to me. The suspension isn't much of a punishment. Harbaugh still coaches all week, he just isn't on the sideline.
B1G gets to say "look, we did something".
Michigan gets to play the "everyone out to get us / Us vs World" card.
I think it could be important not having JH there in person for the Ohio State game, particularly if the game is close and some pressure decisions have to be made.
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Very interesting. Do you think that changes? I don’t think anyone would suspend a coach or player for something they may not be a part of until they are officially a part of it.
The only way I think it changes is if some new information comes up. The suspension was pretty clearly aimed at the program, not explicitly Harbaugh. They essentially said Michigan cheated, we all know it, we don't have info Harbaugh knew personally about it but he's the head coach of Michigan so he gets the suspension.
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The B1G covered this in Petitti's letter to UM. Even on the first page. You should read it.
They made it CLEAR that they have no evidence that Harbaugh had knowledge of this, and that this is a punishment of the UNIVERSITY and not of Harbaugh. The head football coach being the "face" of the program makes is such that the punishment involves removing him from the sideline. But the B1G is not alleging wrongdoing on Harbaugh's behalf nor are they punishing HIM.
Don't steal my thunder dammit I wanted an M fans slant.Go make me some Marzen's and a standing rib roast or something ;D
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No idea what this is about but its a huge development. You don't get fired like this unless its for something really bad.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NEWS from University of Michigan Athletic Director Warde Manuel:<br><br>"Effective today, Chris Partridge has been relieved of his duties as a member of the Michigan Football staff. Rick Minter will serve as the team’s linebackers coach."</p>— Nicole Auerbach (@NicoleAuerbach) <a href="https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/1725550170782216578?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 17, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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No idea what this is about but its a huge development.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NEWS from University of Michigan Athletic Director Warde Manuel:<br><br>"Effective today, Chris Partridge has been relieved of his duties as a member of the Michigan Football staff. Rick Minter will serve as the team’s linebackers coach."</p>— Nicole Auerbach (@NicoleAuerbach) <a href="https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/1725550170782216578?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 17, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Is this the same guy whose Twitter allegedly disappeared?
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Is this the same guy whose Twitter allegedly disappeared?
I think that was rumored to be Clinkscale. Not so sure this is related to signgate since Partridge wasn't there in 2021 and 2022.
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No idea what this is about but its a huge development. You don't get fired like this unless its for something really bad.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NEWS from University of Michigan Athletic Director Warde Manuel:<br><br>"Effective today, Chris Partridge has been relieved of his duties as a member of the Michigan Football staff. Rick Minter will serve as the team’s linebackers coach."</p>— Nicole Auerbach (@NicoleAuerbach) <a href="https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/1725550170782216578?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 17, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Welp that's new info
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Welp that's new info
Yeah . . . but not really much info. Could be lots of reasons.
Even @Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595) concedes that Harbaugh has an apparent lack of decent vetting of employees.
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Yeah . . . but not really much info. Could be lots of reasons.
Maybe giving up 15 points to Penn State?
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That lines up with the rumors yesterday that what changed was that the NCAA released more information from their investigation to the big 10, that's certain assistants admitted to being aware of it in their interviews
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https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38920463/michigan-fires-linebackers-coach-chris-partridge
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It says this info was part of why Michigan did their 180 degree turn.
Makes sense.
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Uncle T?
https://twitter.com/RossDellenger/status/1725562920006795282?t=nMXvIS9vz8GCShTnMnGrcA&s=19
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Uncle T?
https://twitter.com/RossDellenger/status/1725562920006795282?t=nMXvIS9vz8GCShTnMnGrcA&s=19
Yes- I am seeing other things that point to the fact that he actually destroyed evidence.
This thing just gets uglier by the day
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Live look at the Michigan coaches room
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/xUPGcmvgjMIEhy6jZu/giphy.gif)
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"Multiple sources say that Partridge is not alleged at this time of knowing about the advanced scouting by Stalions, but acted after the fact to cover up evidence."
https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-ncaas-evidence-vs-michigan-included-booster-involvement-in-scouting-scheme-attempted-destruction-of-evidence-171243435.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-ncaas-evidence-vs-michigan-included-booster-involvement-in-scouting-scheme-attempted-destruction-of-evidence-171243435.html)
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Yeah . . . but not really much info. Could be lots of reasons.
Even @Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595) concedes that Harbaugh has an apparent lack of decent vetting of employees.
This was Partridge's second stint at Michigan, so Harbaugh knew him.
Ace recruiter.
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">New statement from Michigan. I would clarify, the Big Ten did not initiate an official investigation but has been in regular contact with the NCAA about its probe. <a href="https://t.co/Qrx0ObcddO">pic.twitter.com/Qrx0ObcddO</a></p>— Adam Rittenberg (@ESPNRittenberg) <a href="https://twitter.com/ESPNRittenberg/status/1725561210593013894?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 17, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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Above Twitter embed didn't work so well
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F_JsxiFWEAA4Tf7?format=jpg&name=900x900)
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https://twitter.com/b1g_ryan/status/1725569078520119379?s=46&t=zWP_jhKwEyS4iClKYT0_gg
Looks like it did not take long to figure out who was the booster ( Mr.T)
Who was funding Stalions advance, scouting/filming scheme
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Definitely a turn of events. It sounds like Big Ten agreed to end their part. The only question now is how quickly does NCAA take action as it clearly sounds like some additional pieces have come to light? a booster? another coach erasing computers? Not good. Reminds me of what ended the Tressel career at OSU. May be a similar result for Jim at Michigan.
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https://www.si.com/college/2023/11/17/michigan-believed-deal-was-possible-to-reduce-harbaugh-suspension
This report says that the Big Ten was willing to negotiate the suspension down to two days before his other new shit hit the fan
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Is this scouting violation considered a "major" or "minor" violation under NCAA rules? Does anybody know?
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Angelique on ESPNU on Sirius/XM calling it a dumpster fire and says there will likely be “much” more uncovered. “Never imagined anything like this.” They are no longer defending themselves. They are doing damage control. “They learned something late Wednesday night.”
“Ono tweeted something he shouldn’t have.”
“They probably should have started damage control before this if they knew what they knew.”
Angelique Chengalis from the Detroit News. Very respected and close to the program.
I get the feeling we are not close to done yet.
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Is this scouting violation considered a "major" or "minor" violation under NCAA rules? Does anybody know?
Major. A breach of basic sportsmanship.
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Boy those Sparty know how to dig up some shit.
This is from “ Uncle T” the Michigan booster who is alleged to have funded Stalions illegal scouting. Notice the date- right after they beat OSU in 21
- This is from 2021
[img width=231 height=313.875 alt=user generated]https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/563/113/12113563.jpeg?width=600&fit=bounds[/img] (https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/563/113/12113563.jpeg)[/color][/iurl][img width=231 height=189.453125 alt=user generated]https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/564/113/12113564.jpeg?width=600&fit=bounds[/img] (https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/564/113/12113564.jpeg)[/color][/iurl][img width=231 height=289.765625 alt=user generated]https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/565/113/12113565.jpeg?width=600&fit=bounds[/img] (https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/565/113/12113565.jpeg)[/color][/iurl][/color][/size][/size]
[/font][/size][/color]21 upvotes
21
Quote - TreatiseStorage1
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Unsung hero award - Fort member - David Karp Esq - he made a suggestion that paid off for Michigan in a big way - given it's a competitive
advantage
& The real totchman • © Nov 28, 2021
{ The Fort
Watch
T
The real totchman
Well-known member a
Nov 28, 2021
Won't say what it is
but Dave - thank you so much
we need to lock it up
@. wolverine9823, Zackkuran13, mmintz90 and 26 othe
§ • #1
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Boy those Sparty know how to dig up some shit.
This is from “ Uncle T” the Michigan booster who is alleged to have funded Stalions illegal scouting. Notice the date- right after they beat OSU in 21
- This is from 2021
[img width=231 height=313.875 alt=user generated]https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/563/113/12113563.jpeg?width=600&fit=bounds[/img] (https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/563/113/12113563.jpeg)[/color][/iurl][img width=231 height=189.444 alt=user generated]https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/564/113/12113564.jpeg?width=600&fit=bounds[/img] (https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/564/113/12113564.jpeg)[/color][/iurl][img width=231 height=289.764 alt=user generated]https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/565/113/12113565.jpeg?width=600&fit=bounds[/img] (https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/565/113/12113565.jpeg)[/color][/iurl][/color][/size][/size]
[/font][/size][/color]21 upvotes
21
Quote - TreatiseStorage1
Never piss off a bunch of internet trolls who hate you, and have no reason to care about their own program this year
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Never piss off a bunch of internet trolls who hate you, and have no reason to care about their own program this year
That is hilarious.
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Boy those Sparty know how to dig up some shit.
This is from “ Uncle T” the Michigan booster who is alleged to have funded Stalions illegal scouting. Notice the date- right after they beat OSU in 21
- This is from 2021
[img width=231 height=313.875 alt=user generated]https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/563/113/12113563.jpeg?width=600&fit=bounds[/img] (https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/563/113/12113563.jpeg)[/color][/iurl][img width=231 height=189.431 alt=user generated]https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/564/113/12113564.jpeg?width=600&fit=bounds[/img] (https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/564/113/12113564.jpeg)[/color][/iurl][img width=231 height=289.764 alt=user generated]https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/565/113/12113565.jpeg?width=600&fit=bounds[/img] (https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/565/113/12113565.jpeg)[/color][/iurl][/color][/size][/size]
[/font][/size][/color]21 upvotes
21
Quote - TreatiseStorage1
So the money behind the operation literally bragged about it on a UM message board, and expressly called it a competitive advantage. This might be the most bungled cover up of all .
Granted, there is like a 50% chance these are photoshopped.
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A lot of this is still based on "sources", which of course can be correct. I'll just wait longer, not that it matters to me.
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So the money behind the operation literally bragged about it on a UM message board, and expressly called it a competitive advantage. This might be the most bungled cover up of all .
Granted, there is like a 50% chance these are photoshopped.
I'm thinking this news, assuming it is true, isn't actually all that bad for Michigan. I don't mean that it is good, but given what we already knew, this could be a lot worse. Here is a list of plausible financing mechanisms that I have put in order from what I think would be best/least bad for Michigan up to what I think would be worst for Michigan:
- Stalions' family is loaded (has been said here by @Temp430 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=131) I think) and he just paid it out of pocket. This would be or would have been best for them because it minimizes outside involvement and increases the chances of the "lone wolf" defense carrying some water.
- Stalions got the money from a booster (the allegation today).
- Stalions got the money from another member of the Michigan Coaching Staff somewhere between himself and Harbaugh.
- Harbaugh paid for it. This was always extremely unlikely.
- The University paid for it somehow. This would be really bad but not quite as bad in the eyes of the NCAA as:
- Stalions used the knowledge that M had stolen signs and was therefore likely to overperform to make bets on Michigan and used the proceeds from the successful bets to finance further sign stealing. This would be the worst-case-scenario for Michigan because then it isn't just an NCAA violation, this would be fraud and likely federal wire fraud (because the sports book would be paid through a federal bank in an interstate transaction) which would entail a major FBI investigation into Stalions and anyone they could link to the scheme.
A booster paying for it is more similar to the usual stuff that the NCAA deals with where a booster(s) pay for things that are impermissible. From the Michigan perspective, #1 would have been better but this is WAY better than any of #3 through #6.
Two more things on the money:
First, we've heard a figure of $15k tossed around. I don't know how accurate that is but it sounds low to me. Stalions allegedly had very good tickets to the 2021 and 2022 SECCG's plus a bunch of other high-dollar games including that he allegedly had not one but two tickets to the tOSU/PSU game (to film both sides' signals). Just the tickets alone to the two SECCG's and the tOSU/PSU game would chew up a big chunk of that $15k.
Second, even if it is twice, thrice, or four times that much it still isn't really all that much money in context. The press has sometimes thrown that around like this was a major deal based on the expenditure of $15k, but realistically I was thinking all along that if the Stalions family is as loaded as was suggested and/or if one of Michigan's multi-hundred-thousand/year assistants wanted to do this, $15k isn't that much.
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So the money behind the operation literally bragged about it on a UM message board, and expressly called it a competitive advantage. This might be the most bungled cover up of all .
Granted, there is like a 50% chance these are photoshopped.
https://twitter.com/a_zinger/status/1725602063504343372
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Major. A breach of basic sportsmanship.
I would guess the NCAA gives Michigan the same penalty they gave Wake Forest for the same offense.
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Isn't multiple lone wolves, a Wolfpack?
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A 50 yrd liine ticket at he SEC CG is $2,000 up to $5K, lower deck.
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Isn't multiple lone wolves, a Wolfpack?
A low level wolfpack though. With private parking spots, and access to both coordinators
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A 50 yrd liine ticket at he SEC CG is $2,000 up to $5K, lower deck.
Oh, they found the money today. And UM scrubbed his profile already. They have literally been 2 steps behind at every step of the cover up. Honestly, if they had just owned it up front, it would probably be over. But they keep denying and destroying computers, and wiping profiles after they've already been screen capped.
It's literally Watergate. Its totally unnecessary cheating, run by the dumbest humans alive, followed by the most half assed cover up. All for likely minimal gain...except the money behind it publicly bragged about what a strategic advantage it gave them
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Welp that's new info
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia1.tenor.com%2Fimages%2Fcbf642d6a9033e5953037624dd7882f0%2Ftenor.gif%3Fitemid%3D9592017&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=89dbe8d0164141f4491b48edbcfe0493e0f678358d9eb7697c00031e3fa71a4d&ipo=images) (https://media1.tenor.com/images/cbf642d6a9033e5953037624dd7882f0/tenor.gif?itemid=9592017)
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I would guess the NCAA gives Michigan the same penalty they gave Wake Forest for the same offense.
Could be. But your batting average on this thing so far is pretty close to zero.
I’m still waiting for the FBI to pull up an arrest the coach of Ohio State.
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Never piss off a bunch of internet trolls who hate you, and have no reason to care about their own program this year
I've always loved the Red Cedar they and SurleyHorns are the most raucous yodeling rabble on the web 😎
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Noted anti-UM guy NFL writer Ian Rappaport. It truly is Michigan vs. Everyone. Michigan cheated, and everyone else knows it. And nobody except Michigan fans are even trying to deny it anymore
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1725571748962177203?s=20
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Tim Smith denies being Uncle T,
https://sports.yahoo.com/michigan-booster-tim-smith-denies-being-uncle-t-who-allegedly-funded-connor-stalions-sign-stealing-scheme-202933063.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall (https://sports.yahoo.com/michigan-booster-tim-smith-denies-being-uncle-t-who-allegedly-funded-connor-stalions-sign-stealing-scheme-202933063.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall)
I found a couple of things interesting. One he has been talking to Stallions since he resigned and two, Stallions spent over $100K of his own money to fund it.
Of course, being a Michigan man he took the tack that Stallions did nothing wrong.
Oh and he (Tim Smith)was removed from being a member of the Champion Circle.
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UM compliance: Well now with NIL, it's nearly impossible to commit an NCAA violation
UM boosters aka Uncle T:
(https://media.tenor.com/hxrZK3Iw_-AAAAAC/watch-this.gif)
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So I said above that the revelation that the money allegedly came from a booster is a relatively good thing for Michigan.
Now I'll comment on something that, if true, I think is a relatively bad thing for Michigan. A lot of Michigan posters were questioning why this guy who got fired today was involved since he apparently just rejoined the staff this season.
The rumor is that he wasn't fired for being involved in Stalions' scheme nor even for having knowledge of it but for "destruction of evidence". I'm guessing that the NCAA will be LIVID about that. If they have some sort of proof that members of the staff destroyed or attempted to destroy evidence that is a REALLY bad look for Michigan.
Upthread, @MarqHusker (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=41) referred to "cooperating fully" as his "favorite utterance in the rolodex of the accused". It was a funny comment but it really is a typical thing to say. The accused wants to at least make it look like they are cooperating so as to minimize punishment but if a staffer of the University of Michigan has actually been caught destroying evidence that will put a serious dent in that "cooperating fully" argument.
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If there's no evidence why are they deleting/destroy evidence?Remember when all of Michigan and their fans and media wanted the big ten to refrain from punishment until the NCAA investigation was done? Yea…. They might wanna take that one back.
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Noted anti-UM guy NFL writer Ian Rappaport. It truly is Michigan vs. Everyone. Michigan cheated, and everyone else knows it. And nobody except Michigan fans are even trying to deny it anymore
LMAO in the comments - there's a real reason they wore Yellow Pants
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The rumor is that he wasn't fired for being involved in Stalions' scheme nor even for having knowledge of it but for "destruction of evidence". I'm guessing that the NCAA will be LIVID about that. If they have some sort of proof that members of the staff destroyed or attempted to destroy evidence that is a REALLY bad look for Michigan.
Completely agree. It's maddening.
Now to shift focus.. Lone wolf staff member with advanced scouting.. Also lone wolf staff member destroying evidence. Nothing to see here lol
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I'm thinking this news, assuming it is true, isn't actually all that bad for Michigan. I don't mean that it is good, but given what we already knew, this could be a lot worse. Here is a list of plausible financing mechanisms that I have put in order from what I think would be best/least bad for Michigan up to what I think would be worst for Michigan:
- Stalions' family is loaded (has been said here by @Temp430 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=131) I think) and he just paid it out of pocket. This would be or would have been best for them because it minimizes outside involvement and increases the chances of the "lone wolf" defense carrying some water.
- Stalions got the money from a booster (the allegation today).
- Stalions got the money from another member of the Michigan Coaching Staff somewhere between himself and Harbaugh.
- Harbaugh paid for it. This was always extremely unlikely.
- The University paid for it somehow. This would be really bad but not quite as bad in the eyes of the NCAA as:
- Stalions used the knowledge that M had stolen signs and was therefore likely to overperform to make bets on Michigan and used the proceeds from the successful bets to finance further sign stealing. This would be the worst-case-scenario for Michigan because then it isn't just an NCAA violation, this would be fraud and likely federal wire fraud (because the sports book would be paid through a federal bank in an interstate transaction) which would entail a major FBI investigation into Stalions and anyone they could link to the scheme.
A booster paying for it is more similar to the usual stuff that the NCAA deals with where a booster(s) pay for things that are impermissible. From the Michigan perspective, #1 would have been better but this is WAY better than any of #3 through #6.
Two more things on the money:
First, we've heard a figure of $15k tossed around. I don't know how accurate that is but it sounds low to me. Stalions allegedly had very good tickets to the 2021 and 2022 SECCG's plus a bunch of other high-dollar games including that he allegedly had not one but two tickets to the tOSU/PSU game (to film both sides' signals). Just the tickets alone to the two SECCG's and the tOSU/PSU game would chew up a big chunk of that $15k.
Second, even if it is twice, thrice, or four times that much it still isn't really all that much money in context. The press has sometimes thrown that around like this was a major deal based on the expenditure of $15k, but realistically I was thinking all along that if the Stalions family is as loaded as was suggested and/or if one of Michigan's multi-hundred-thousand/year assistants wanted to do this, $15k isn't that much.
IMHO this take is spot on. Obviously #1 is best for Michigan, as a conspiracy becomes significantly harder to keep secret the more people who are involved. So a truly lone lone wolf makes it easier to argue that "should have known" is not reasonable. But #2 is also not that bad because it gives you a plausible source of funds outside the university that does not in any way directly implicate the coaching staff or university (beyond Stalions who was already implicated of course).
I still think there's a "should have known" aspect because the Rain Man theory IMHO is a little implausible. Does anyone know what Stalions did in the service? If it's something in cryptography or something like that, it might be something that he could use to con UM into the Rain Man theory...
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This was so f***ing stupid I actually believe there's no way Harbaugh knew. I think both coordinators definitely knew. I think this was the perfect storm of a staff on the ledge and a head coach who (fully aside from this) has a horrible history of vetting hires going along with it.
Whatever I think of Harbaugh, he's a weird ass dude, to think he signed off on this I don't believe. Did Steve Fisher sign off on some major violations? Yeah. But the media was WAY different then. Nobody had social media, and 99% of the time you were covered exclusively by local media, who weren't going to report anything, because they would lose access. That hasn't been the case for 20ish years, and Harbaugh knew that.
Did it reach a point he SHOULD have known? Maybe. The NCAA removed that though. Was that smart? I think so, but as always, it's the law of unintended consequences. The prior burden was based on the fact that you couldn't hold a head coach responsible for the actions of his boosters. I think that's fair. You are responsible for your staff, but if a rogue booster is giving out $200 handshakes, how would you ever know.
Now, those $200 handshakes are ok. Most of the things that occurred outside the staff are now ok. So you can hold coaches strictly liable. I had a hard time believing this was one dude, and nobody asked him how he did it, and that nobody should have asked him how he did. Hell, if he was that good at it, if I were his employer I would have sat him down with other analysts and asked him to show them how he did it. But if you can ignore every normal decision an employer would make, I'm ok with saying this is the weird exception to the rule. But now that actual position coaches are involved, it's done.
It is Michigan vs. Everyone. Michigan cheated, and Everyone else is pissed. At this point I think it's LESS likely anything happens. Michigan is now the biggest draw in the sport. All of these wins are going to be vacated, but the tv networks pull the purse strings, and they 100% want Michigan there.
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it's simple... ban all the staff that knew or tried to cover it up
tomorrow morning
Jim can stand on the sideline by himself
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it's simple... ban all the staff that knew or tried to cover it up
tomorrow morning
Jim can stand on the sideline by himself
It's not that simple. If it was, everyone would do it
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If he didn’t know- which I acknowledge his highly possible- this it what is crazy:
Of 14 coaches in the conference- it appears that 13 Head Coaches did know. He was the only one that didn’t.
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Pat Forde
The Wolverines chose to accept Jim Harbaugh’s suspension and end their legal fight after receiving new information.
The Michigan Outrage Meter seems to no longer be registering.
Last Friday it was all restraining order and rush-to-judgment this and due-process that and unfairrrrrrrr. The next day it was tears from the interim coach. On Sunday came a
dramatic social media post from the school president about facing “challenges and adversity.” Monday gave us a declaration that the Wolverines should be considered “America’s team."
Today? No outrage. After receiving new information, the only audible sounds from Ann Arbor are the circling of wagons. The only sight is the pointing of fingers at a booster who claims he didn’t do anything.
Jim Harbaugh and the school quietly accepted his three-game suspension from the Big Ten and called off the court hearing that was scheduled for Friday. Linebacker coach Chris Partridge has been abruptly fired. And a booster identified as “Uncle T” is alleged to have at least partially funded former analyst Connor Stalions’s widespread spying scheme, according to Yahoo Sports.
I’m not hearing any calls for Michigan to secede from the Big Ten today.
The premise offered by many Wolverines backers was that Stalions was a rogue employee, out there alone, concocting a certifiably ridiculous scheme to buy tickets and send associates into stadiums across the Midwest and elsewhere to gather opponents’ play signals. The lingering question was this: Where did Stalions, making $55,000 per year, get the funding to bankroll such an ambitious plan?
It’s good to have a rich uncle.
(A Michigan booster named Tim Smith has denied to Sports Illustrated and Yahoo Sports that he is “Uncle T.” Smith told Yahoo he was terminated from his membership in the Champions Circle collective, which raises funds for NIL opportunities for Michigan athletes. Smith said he is a “fall guy.”)
If covering college athletics for three decades has taught me anything, it’s this: When a scandal is uncovered, it’s almost never the work of a rogue employee acting in a complete vacuum. Denial is universal but rarely truthful.
In the case of Stalions, an astounding number of people wished fervently for it to be true. Story line: obsessed zealot plots path to importance via secret spying scheme.
Maybe this went no further than Stalions and the shadowy Uncle T, but that’s still further than one man working alone. Maybe nobody else on the coaching staff knew, but that is freshly called into question.
The same new information received this week that led to Michigan abandoning its attempt to get a temporary restraining order that would get Harbaugh back on the sideline led to the firing of Partridge, sources told SI. Yahoo cited sources in reporting that Partridge “allegedly participated in the destruction of evidence on a computer after the scandal broke.” The publication added that Partridge “is not alleged at this time of knowing about the advanced scouting by Stalions, but acted after the fact to cover up evidence.”
Was Partridge allegedly covering up for Stalions? (SI reported last month that while discussing the Michigan staff via text with an associate, Stalions said he was “close with CP.”) Or was Partridge allegedly covering up for Uncle T? Or someone else? Regardless, this has become a fireable offense for a full-time assistant coach, which spreads the dragnet further than Stalions himself.
Strictly from an NCAA standpoint, Partridge could be facing a Level I violation charge if he destroyed evidence. Michigan likely already is looking at a Level I charge if the Stalions scheme can be substantiated (thus far, nobody has disputed his alleged actions). And Harbaugh sits in the crosshairs under the NCAA’s “strict liability” designation of head coach responsibility bylaws.
There has been no public evidence that Harbaugh knew what Stalions was doing or condoned impermissible, in-person scouting. That hasn’t changed, and that wasn’t part of surrendering the court fight to coach again in the regular season.
But Harbaugh still is on the hook here, and the scandal has now ensnared one of his assistant coaches. He’s also facing potential additional sanctions for the other NCAA investigation of Michigan, which pertains to impermissible recruiting during the COVID-19 noncontact period. Harbaugh is alleged to have lied to the NCAA about meeting with recruits. The messes keep getting messier.
Michigan still has a chance to get what it really wants out of this, which is a national championship before the house burns to the ground. The screaming about due process was easily translated to mean: Just let us finish this season. The Wolverines will have to beat Maryland and—much bigger challenge—Ohio State without Harbaugh; then he’s free to coach in a potential Big Ten championship game and the College Football Playoff. We’ll see whether the team is good enough to give Harbaugh those opportunities.
But recent events have forced the school and its backers to abandon the righteous indignation stance. It was obnoxious before and no longer tenable now. A legal challenge has been abandoned, an assistant coach has been fired and Uncle T is now entered into Connor Stalions lore alongside a Central Michigan coaching disguise and the “Michigan Manifesto.” None of those are good things.
Time to pipe down and hope this doesn’t get any worse, Michigan.
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Now to shift focus.. Lone wolf staff member with advanced scouting.. Also lone wolf staff member destroying evidence. Nothing to see here lol
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So this Smith guy has been terminated,Stalions also,Partridge too - starting to look like the Nixon Whitehouse. Big 10 should consider moving The Game to Indianapolis considering the huge mushroom cloud building over Ann Arbor. And WTF is this Champions Circle collective?
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Upthread, @MarqHusker (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=41) referred to "cooperating fully" as his "favorite utterance in the rolodex of the accused". It was a funny comment but it really is a typical thing to say. The accused wants to at least make it look like they are cooperating so as to minimize punishment but if a staffer of the University of Michigan has actually been caught destroying evidence that will put a serious dent in that "cooperating fully" argument.
That's precisely why it is in the rolodex of the accused. Every Pol uses it simultaneously as they stonewall, delay, obfuscate and appeal. If Chat GPT was used to issue statements on behalf of the accused (of anything) it would have a high probability of appearing.
On the other side of this are those 'deeply concerned', but that's a different rolodex.
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IMHO this take is spot on. Obviously #1 is best for Michigan, as a conspiracy becomes significantly harder to keep secret the more people who are involved. So a truly lone lone wolf makes it easier to argue that "should have known" is not reasonable. But #2 is also not that bad because it gives you a plausible source of funds outside the university that does not in any way directly implicate the coaching staff or university (beyond Stalions who was already implicated of course).
I still think there's a "should have known" aspect because the Rain Man theory IMHO is a little implausible. Does anyone know what Stalions did in the service? If it's something in cryptography or something like that, it might be something that he could use to con UM into the Rain Man theory...
Thanks.
My biggest objection to the "Rain Man Theory" (which I postulated several pages back) is that no matter how smart your "Rain Man" was, he couldn't possibly know the signs until some way into a game. I could imagine a "Rain Man" being able to figure out opposing signs say by around halftime.
The problem is that the widely shared clip of Stalions watching tOSU's sideline then saying something to the DC then a slew of coaches and players on Michigan's sideline pointing up to indicate pass happened on tOSU's first drive.
IMHO, this poses multiple problems for Michigan:
- No "Rain Man" could possibly decode opponent signals that fast unless they had a head start (which Stallions did), and
- The fact that Michigan's DC was standing next to Stalions indicates that he knew that Stalions had worthwhile information even EARLY in the game, and
- The fact that a slew of coaches and players then pointed up indicates that they all knew that sings had been decoded already, on tOSU's first drive, and
- For Harbaugh to claim ignorance of all of this is dubious. It puts him at least in a "should have known" position.
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This was so f***ing stupid I actually believe there's no way Harbaugh knew.
But he knew about the Tunnel Fights and Uzi "Three Clips" Smith and waited patiently....unlike this week
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WTF is this Champions Circle collective?
I don't think there is anything wrong with it. All schools have titles for donors so (completely made up):
- $100 supporter
- $1,000 Sustaining member
- $10,000 Conference title circle
- $25,000 Champions Circle
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I don't think there is anything wrong with it. All schools have titles for donors so (completely made up):
- $100 supporter
- $1,000 Sustaining member
- $10,000 Conference title circle
- $25,000 Champions Circle
Yeah, that isn't an issue
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I don't think there is anything wrong with it. All schools have titles for donors so (completely made up):
- $100 supporter
- $1,000 Sustaining member
- $10,000 Conference title circle
- $25,000 Champions Circle
- $50,000 Intelligence Operations Circle
I dunno they might want to look into that
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How’s that Harbaugh extension coming along?
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How’s that Harbaugh extension coming along?
They freed up some funding
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How’s that Harbaugh extension coming along?
the only way to have made this any better........ if they would have given Jim a Jimbo type extension a month or so ago
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It better not come out Jay knew or the Jigs up
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Thanks.
My biggest objection to the "Rain Man Theory" (which I postulated several pages back) is that no matter how smart your "Rain Man" was, he couldn't possibly know the signs until some way into a game. I could imagine a "Rain Man" being able to figure out opposing signs say by around halftime.
The problem is that the widely shared clip of Stalions watching tOSU's sideline then saying something to the DC then a slew of coaches and players on Michigan's sideline pointing up to indicate pass happened on tOSU's first drive.
IMHO, this poses multiple problems for Michigan:
- No "Rain Man" could possibly decode opponent signals that fast unless they had a head start (which Stallions did), and
- The fact that Michigan's DC was standing next to Stalions indicates that he knew that Stalions had worthwhile information even EARLY in the game, and
- The fact that a slew of coaches and players then pointed up indicates that they all knew that sings had been decoded already, on tOSU's first drive, and
- For Harbaugh to claim ignorance of all of this is dubious. It puts him at least in a "should have known" position.
I probably changed definitions on you there. Sorry. I was assuming the Rain Man theory was more that he made them believe he had a legitimate sign stealing operation based on public video or the like, rather than an advance in person scouting illegitimate operation.
I agree with you that an in game operation status credulity even further.
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It better not come out Jay knew or the Jigs up
I'm not sure the nepo baby knows much about much
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Major. A breach of basic sportsmanship.
If that is so, "lack of institutional control," while not stated to be the reason for Harbaugh's suspension, seems to be an explanation for his three-game suspension.
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Isn't multiple lone wolves, a Wolfpack?
Loan Wolf get it right
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https://247sports.com/college/michigan-state/board/93/Contents/michigan-signstealing-cheating-scandal-ncaa-investigation-218739086/?page=949
You couldn’t dream this up. Tin Foil hat material.
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(https://i.imgur.com/leU9Pp9.png)
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Michigan insider Sam Webb says Partridge was fired over his communications with players and not destroying computer files. Apparently he communicated something deemed as not cooperating with the investigation by Michigan’s athletic department. Partridge had no knowledge of in person advance scouting by Stallions was reported earlier. So, it seems a lot of the Michigan detractors here are off in fantasy conspiracy land.
Beat the terps!
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Sam Webb said a lot of shyt - most if it now we know wrong
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I look askance at any report sourced by some "Insider". And yes, it fairly often is true, or nearly true, but I'll wait on confirmation.
We all note how much "reporting" of "news" these days is sourced by some "highly placed official". It's a leak from someone attempting to shape the news.
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Michigan insider Sam Webb says Partridge was fired over his communications with players and not destroying computer files. Apparently he communicated something deemed as not cooperating with the investigation by Michigan’s athletic department. Partridge had no knowledge of in person advance scouting by Stallions was reported earlier. So, it seems a lot of the Michigan detractors here are off in fantasy conspiracy land.
Beat the terps!
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2023/11/17/partridge-pressured-michigan-players-to-not-cooperate-with-ncaa-sign-stealing-probe-sources-say/71628050007/?utm_source=pdtn-DailyBriefing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=dailybriefing&utm_term=hero&utm_content=1008DN-E-NLETTER65
This is from the Detroit news.
Read the comment section. These are Michigan based people- they are starting to see the light and the reality. Will that ever happen for you?
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Behind a paywall care to copy and paste something? Not gonna pony up for what might be old content
Found This
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10097755-michigans-chris-partridge-fired-reportedly-tried-to-cover-up-sign-stealing-evidence
Dellenger and Wetzel (https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-ncaas-evidence-vs-michigan-included-booster-involvement-in-scouting-scheme-attempted-destruction-of-evidence-171243435.html) reported part of the NCAA evidence presented to Michigan points to a university booster named "Uncle T" as having partially funded the scouting scheme by giving Connor Stalions "thousands of dollars for expenses" and Partridge allegedly attempted to destroy "evidence on a computer" after news of the scandal became public.
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Michigan insider Sam Webb says Partridge was fired over his communications with players and not destroying computer files. Apparently he communicated something deemed as not cooperating with the investigation by Michigan’s athletic department. Partridge had no knowledge of in person advance scouting by Stallions was reported earlier. So, it seems a lot of the Michigan detractors here are off in fantasy conspiracy land.
Beat the terps!
Feels like the "Michigan Insiders" have been the least reliable people this whole time.
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Feels like the "Michigan Insiders" have been the least reliable people this whole time.
Ehh.. the same game could be said about other side about “sources” that have been painting worst case scenario outcomes.
it’s what sucks about social media. It’s full of tin foil hats, people with extreme hate or people unwilling to accept truth. Truth is normally somewhere in the middle.
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sucks about the media period
ass hats
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Ehh.. the same game could be said about other side about “sources” that have been painting worst case scenario outcomes.
it’s what sucks about social media. It’s full of tin foil hats, people with extreme hate or people unwilling to accept truth. Truth is normally somewhere in the middle.
Well sort of. But usually you can get a read on what's going on behind the scenes by reading the "insiders," since they are the ones talking most to people who know something. But it feels like the Michigan insiders are being fed garbage because everything they say turns out wrong, and they aren't even getting the scoops. Everything of consequence has been broken by ESPN or Yahoo. It's kind of weird.
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Lotta smoke Glen Schemmy leaving,Alex Yude??? what was he even on the payroll as a lackey for Stalions?Weiss and what Cyber crimes?Partridge relieved for destroying evidence,Uncle "T" funding Stalions who was sent packing. Corum had an LLC established with Satlions that was dissolved just yesterday
(https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/941/60/12060941.gif)
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Well sort of. But usually you can get a read on what's going on behind the scenes by reading the "insiders," since they are the ones talking most to people who know something. But it feels like the Michigan insiders are being fed garbage because everything they say turns out wrong, and they aren't even getting the scoops. Everything of consequence has been broken by ESPN or Yahoo. It's kind of weird.
Yeah I agree with that entirely. The espn and yahoo part has been weird. Tough to tell if it’s espn having an anti-BigTen pro-SEC bias or Michigan truly has a dirtier situation that they’ve been trying to cover. Starting to look like the latter.
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ESecPN will do anything it can to paint the B1G in a negative light.
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How’s that Harbaugh extension coming along?
I’d say there’s a much greater chance Ohio State will be looking for a new coach before Michigan.
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BET :043: I don't even know the stupid significance of that as it's surfaced recently pertaining to UM
edit: you may be right though as the last two Buckeye teams had much more talent IMHO than this seasons.Specially with Stroud lighting things up in the League and losing Jones who has played outstanding on the line in Cleveland
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I’d say there’s a much greater chance Ohio State will be looking for a new coach before Michigan.
If this is as accurate as your previous posts in this thread Harbaugh will be fired within a week and Day will retire from tOSU as an old man.
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But if the skunk weasels win specially w/o Boogs - Day's seat will get exponentially Hotter
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kind of a big "IF"
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But if the skunk weasels win specially w/o Boogs - Day's seat will get exponentially Hotter
I don't know.
Now that we know Michigan cheated the last two years and that those booger-wins will be vacated Day is officially what, 4-0 against Michigan?
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I think the pressure on Day is the least it has ever been.
He is 55-6 as a coach.
He has the best winning % (72%) against ranked teams Of all active coaches - better than Saban and Smart.
He goes into Ann Arbor as an underdog, with perhaps his weakest team, facing what is probably the best Michigan team he has faced. A win would be an upset
The fan base would get worked up of course- but they seem to be collectively giving him a pass now on the last 2 losses to UM for obvious reasons.
The comments about “ born on third base” are actually valid. He didn’t have to build up his resume by successfully running smaller school- like most coaches at top programs did.
But he has proven to be a great choice as he has actually elevated the recruiting and winning %, and reached the CFP consistently.
I would even go so far as to say that I think this is his best coaching job yet. He lost three starting offensive lineman to the NFL, lost a stud quarterback to the NFL, and had to retool his whole defense. He managed to break in a new quarterback, while simultaneously continuing to win.
I never thought they would be sitting here at 10 wins and zero losses before the season started.
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I dunno he got chippy a while back like he's a bit bothered/unhnged besides the thing with Holtz and again this team isn't as good as the last two overall.But the skunk bears can be had,we'll have to rowe the boat past PJ 1st
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Overall record as head coach against top 25 teams: 16-6 (72.8%; No. 1 nationally)
Day is 45-6 overall at Ohio State and all of those losses have come against nationally-ranked competition, including half against top 3 teams. Last season's setbacks against Michigan and Georgia might've been the toughest to stomach given the Buckeyes' expectation level. They nearly took out the Bulldogs in the College Football Playoff semifinals and gave the eventual national champions their most competitive game of the year. He recently topped the 247Sports analysis of likeliest coaches to win their first national title (https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/College-footballs-top-coaches-without-a-national-championship-Whos-next-212381073/) in the near future.
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Ryan DAY has recruited QBs/WRs magnificantly not so much the interior lines - across the board they haven't been stout as previous seasons.He's done well but his 1st/2nd season's were UBRZ recruits.And a lot of those top wins were vs good but not great ND,PSU,Iowa squads I realize you play the schedule in front of you just pointing that out.
If the Buckeyes loose this week the excuses will have circled the drain - with Booger and his scheming out. Day's seat will be nuclear and righfully so and the only thing going to save his skin moving forward is the fact that UM will get gutted by the draft,portal,sanctions.Because Washington and Oregon are still looking like beasts. No doubt the sign scheme helped but tOSU have been getting shoved around up front when they play that was obvious and had nothing to do with Stalions or his network
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Ryan DAY has recruited QBs/WRs magnificantly not so much the interior lines - across the board they haven't been stout as previous seasons.He's done well but his 1st/2nd season's were UBRZ recruits.And a lot of those top wins were vs good but not great ND,PSU,Iowa squads i realize you play the schedule in front of you just pointing that out.
If the Buckeyes loose this week the excuses will have circled the drain - with Booger and his scheming out. Day's seat will be nuclear and righfully so and the only thing going to save his skin moving forward is the fact that UM will get gutted by the draft,portal,sanctions. No doubt the sign scheme helped but tOSU have been getting shoved around up front when they play that was obvious and had nothing to do with Stalions or his network
Nah. Unless they get blown off the field.
His record is nothing short of amazing. Especially in big games. This year, sitting here now, is his best coaching job. They are going in the road as underdogs- so they are expected to lose.
Plus despite all the feaux outrage in the Blue bubble, he runs a clean program.
Also, looking at their depth- they should be a top 5-10 team again next season.
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Again you plug in any of the top 5 teams it would be about the same.The game vs the Dawgs was great and Dabo also where the Bucks got jobbed stand out but that squad was laden with URBZ players.What sticks out is the interior line play - that is obvious,no excuses there.BEAT MICHIGAN this Saturday I'll give 11.4 million per reasons why
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Again you plug in any of the top 5 teams it would be about the same.The game vs the Dawgs was great and Dabo also where the Bucks got jobbed stand out but that squad was laden with URBZ players.What sticks out is the interior line play - that is obvious,no excuses there.BEAT MICHIGAN this Saturday I'll give 11.4 million per why
When you lose 3 guys who now start as rookies in the NFL- all recruited under Day- you can’t really complain about interior line recruiting.
The new line takes some time to gel, Ann’s they sure look like that has happened.
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Look at the portal WTF UM built their lines there.And it might be the best way to get OLine and DB help.As those are the toughest positions to develop in CFB.In CFB every one looses players to the draft/graduation. Those lines got shoved around unfortunately but Day simply has been ho-hum there in procuring talent.We'll see next Saturday
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Look at the portal WTF UM built their lines there.And it might be the best way to get OLine and DB help.As those are the toughest positions to develop in CFB.In CFB every one looses players to the draft/graduation. Those lines got shoved around unfortunately but Day simply has been ho-hum there in procuring talent.We'll see next Saturday
Look closer. OSU picked up 2 OL from the portal. One has started every game and is playing extremely well now.
Michigan is struggling- at times- with their pass protection.
Just can’t agree with you about Day being “ ho- hum” about anything. Same guy you called “ too intense” upthread. Come on MrNubzz- we got to have alignment this week! 😂😂
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Oh I don't know if i can trust myself going anywhere believe it.I'll take the high road if we should win,if we don't it's a Bottle of Weller's and into the basement and come out next September
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yup, Buckeye fans will be pissed if they lose the game
but, Day isn't going anywhere
who's on the list to replace him?
Urban?
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yup, Buckeye fans will be pissed if they lose the game
but, Day isn't going anywhere
who's on the list to replace him?
Urban?
I can only speak for myself, and the Buckeye fans I know personally, which admittedly is not a ton of people since I grew up mostly in Michigan.
disappointed if Michigan wins? Absolutely.
pissed? no way. Trying to go to beat them in Ann Arbor is a tall task and would be an upset. in that rivalry, they have three advantages that seem to matter, Better running game, home field advantage and better special teams.
I’ve been saying all year that I think they are the best team and nothing has changed my mind about that.
if you would have told me at the start of the season that Ohio State would be 11 and zero at this point I would’ve been in disbelief and of course ecstatic. With all the new faces and changes in a super tough schedule. I’m pretty damn pleased
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pissed? no way.
are you even a fan?
;)
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I’ve been saying all year that I think they are the best team and nothing has changed my mind about that.
Yes me too at least in the BIG
if you would have told me at the start of the season that Ohio State would be 11 and zero at this point I would’ve been in disbelief and of course ecstatic.
Disbelief yes,happy sure
With all the new faces and changes in a super tough schedule.
IMO not a SUPER TOUGH schedule, ND/PSU then 9 contests against vastly over matched squads
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Even with 9 outclassed opponents, the chances of a slip up are still pretty good. You have to be mentally tuned up to go 11-0 I think. Not many teams do it (duh), even the really good teams.
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You only have to play them one at a time,so two tough outs and the rest not so much.Though the Blue Bloods do have a target on them
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6 road games v 5 for UM as an example. Georgia only had 4.
SOS compared to others in the top 5.
Still tough.
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Even with 9 outclassed opponents, the chances of a slip up are still pretty good. You have to be mentally tuned up to go 11-0 I think. Not many teams do it (duh), even the really good teams.
100%.
it's HARD to go 12-0 in college football in a P5 conference. it's just a hard thing to do.
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JJ has played significantly worse in the games that Sherrone Moore has been the HC.
Maybe Moore should go back to being OC/OL coach only and they let Mike Hart be the head coach? Not sure I buy Moore as a player caller or HC, but he's a damn good recruiter and OL coach. One of the best in the biz when it comes to OL's and 'crootin them. Not really sure on the other stuff....
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Based on probability, it's unlikely. If you have a 95% chance of winning each of ten games, your probability of going 10-0 is surprisingly low. We usually see 1-2-3 12-0 teams each season.
And of course, one of two 11-0 teams will lose next week, at least.
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I don't know.
Now that we know Michigan cheated the last two years and that those booger-wins will be vacated Day is officially what, 4-0 against Michigan?
Lmao. This is pure fantasy.
Ohio State fans are complete whack jobs. If Day loses this year and is 0-3 in the last 3 vs Michigan, his seat is going to start to warm up. And if he somehow loses next year at home and falls to 0-4 in the last 4....his ass will likely be on the chopping block.
Ohio State has without doubt the most psycho path fans outside of SEC country, and it's not close. Day is about as good as it gets as a coach, and if he goes 0-4 in the last 4....he'll be playing with fire....despite winning basically every other one of his games.
I'd say it'd be 50-50 chance he got fired IF he went 0-4 in the last 4, and then if he did keep his job he'd 10000% be coaching for that motherfcker in '25 and even if he went 11-1 again but lost to Michigan they'd fire him. That's how psychotic that fan base is.
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JJ has played significantly worse in the games that Sherrone Moore has been the HC.
Perhaps just taking in all of the backlash or just trying to avoid injury.I'm not reading alot into it.This game seems to be his elixir
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College Gameday and Big Noon Kickoff will both be in Ann Arbor for THE GAME.
My sincere hope is that Michigan refuses to give ESPN any access to school property or press passes. Ban 'em from coming. Fk em.
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Lmao. This is pure fantasy.
Ohio State fans are complete whack jobs
Ohio State has without doubt the most psycho path fans outside of SEC country, and it's not close.
Hey lee Harvey might want to give the Walverine faithful honorable mention.
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I think every fan base (parts of) thinks ESPN is biased and against them and their conference.
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I think every fan base (parts of) thinks ESPN is biased and against them and their conference.
ESPN is definitely biased against the B1G. They lost the B1G media rights. And the B1G games on Fox/NBC/CBS are crushing ESPN/ABC in the ratings.
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Hey lee Harvey might want to give the Walverine faithful honorable mention.
Michigan has it's whacky ass fans too, no doubt. But Ohio State fans take the cake north of the mason dixon line.
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The denial of any wrong doing whatsoever across UM fandom of just last year alone has wrestled that mantle away
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The denial of any wrong doing whatsoever across UM fandom of just last year alone has wrestled that mantle away
nah. gonna take A LOT more then that to dethrone the Bucknutjob faithful.
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If i agreed with you we'd both be wrong - denial isn't a River in Egypt
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Lmao. This is pure fantasy.
As far as I know, not even the fanatic M fans are debating the fact that Michigan cheated. Are you disputing that?
Are you saying that you think there is some chance that Michigan will not have to vacate two of their three wins over Ohio State from the past 20 years?
AND you think I'm the one having a fantasy?
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Finebalm: "Complete and utter disaster." LOL
https://saturdaytradition.com/michigan-football/paul-finebaum-looks-at-2024-jim-harbaugh-situation-as-possible-complete-and-utter-disaster/ (https://saturdaytradition.com/michigan-football/paul-finebaum-looks-at-2024-jim-harbaugh-situation-as-possible-complete-and-utter-disaster/)
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Finebalm: "Complete and utter disaster." LOL
https://saturdaytradition.com/michigan-football/paul-finebaum-looks-at-2024-jim-harbaugh-situation-as-possible-complete-and-utter-disaster/ (https://saturdaytradition.com/michigan-football/paul-finebaum-looks-at-2024-jim-harbaugh-situation-as-possible-complete-and-utter-disaster/)
I'm no fan of Finebaum but (not clicking on link, just going by your quote and the url), that seems inarguable.
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">"It would not be surprising if Jim Harbaugh could be suspended for the bulk of the 2024 season, I'm told." <a href="https://twitter.com/BruceFeldmanCFB?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@BruceFeldmanCFB</a> breaks down the Harbaugh suspension and his future at Michigan ⬇️ <a href="https://t.co/7b1A8t7UIf">pic.twitter.com/7b1A8t7UIf</a></p>— Big Noon Kickoff (@BNKonFOX) <a href="https://twitter.com/BNKonFOX/status/1725909668520771719?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 18, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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Hopefully the NCAA modifies the rules to allow in-person scouting, and in-helmet electronic communications.
The rule against in-person scouting is too easily broken, as we all can see. The rule against in-person scouting it is too difficult to police, as was known by the Michigan staff who created and benefited from the in-person scouting scheme, going on three years.
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in-helmet electronic communications will eliminate the need for stealing signals
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in-helmet electronic communications will eliminate the need for stealing signals
but with everything someone will figure out a way to cheat even with this level of communications
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there's been some funny stuff in the NFL and they are REALLY motivated to find a way
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there's been some funny stuff in the NFL and they are REALLY motivated to find a way
Yep. Charlie Weis' "decided schematic advantage" in Foxboro showed us that.
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https://youtu.be/MTaXy8C7yvE?t=631
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https://twitter.com/AthletesInSpace/status/1726665092555808873?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1726665092555808873%7Ctwgr%5E80d073bed064d63cf5ac768afb8eca2b73d8826a%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fcollege%2Fmichigan-state%2Fboard%2F93%2FContents%2Fmichigan-signstealing-cheating-scandal-ncaa-investigation-218739086%2F%3Fpage%3D1
https://twitter.com/MattBaxendell/status/1726606716559888395?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1726606716559888395%7Ctwgr%5Ef4b7f0dc7734a1d9e394e9a8a21630491c75211c%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.elevenwarriors.com%2Fforum%2Fcollege-sports%2F2023%2F11%2F143216%2Fttun-scandal-xcviii
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https://twitter.com/AthletesInSpace/status/1726665092555808873?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1726665092555808873%7Ctwgr%5E80d073bed064d63cf5ac768afb8eca2b73d8826a%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fcollege%2Fmichigan-state%2Fboard%2F93%2FContents%2Fmichigan-signstealing-cheating-scandal-ncaa-investigation-218739086%2F%3Fpage%3D1
I heard him on the Athletic podcast 2 weeks ago, as their Michigan writer, and he was probably the most level headed guy I've heard. Like, no, this probably isn't a massive advantage, but it's still a very well known rule, and if you could just hire a guy with a limited military background to break codes, every team would do it. His thought was that someone knew, and the higher ups probably didn't "know", but knew it was abnormal, and didn't want to know, and didn't want to ask. And Michigan fans thinking nothing is coming from this are fooling themselves
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Yep. Charlie Weis' "decided schematic advantage" in Foxboro showed us that.
Speaking of blimps
https://twitter.com/ActionNetworkHQ/status/1726650726011883908?s=20
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Why not it's filled with hot air like Jeem's stories
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Why not it's filled with hot air like Jeem's stories
https://youtu.be/0Ad9tholMEM?si=luB2zJG78VPGg0CH
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(https://i.imgur.com/OrM2a8k.jpg)
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Babs: [Meeting Larry and Kent for the first time] A wimp and a blimp!
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Michigan Regent Acker:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Do they hire PIs because they can't beat you, whine to the commissioner to enact extraordinary measures without precedent? Or nah?</p>— Jordan Acker (@JordanAckerMI) <a href="https://twitter.com/JordanAckerMI/status/1726665017544876386?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 20, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Yes they do.
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Hang on. That is a UM Regent, saying those things? Seriously?
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Hang on. That is a UM Regent, saying those things? Seriously?
Yes
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Those types need to stay out of the fray, in my opinion.
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Hang on. That is a UM Regent, saying those things? Seriously?
So embarrassing for that whole school.
as part of their self delusion and deflection, they desperately grasp at straws for a scapegoat.
despite the fact that they have not one shred of evidence, and that it’s been fully debunked already, they want to blame their arch rivals coach.
Notice it’s never anyone in their own program that did the dirty deeds? we’re all still waiting for this “dossier” of dirt they have on other programs. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
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Hang on. That is a UM Regent, saying those things? Seriously?
That is pretty astonishing to me.
Regent Jordan B. Acker is a Democrat from Huntington Woods, Michigan, and has served on the Board of Regents since 2019. He received his B.A. degree from the University of Michigan in 2006 and his J.D. degree from American University – Washington College of Law in 2010. He is the first Regent to have graduated in the 21st century.
Prior to law school, Acker worked as a communications aide to the House Judiciary Committee. After law school, Regent Acker served as an associate in the White House Office of Presidential Personnel before being appointed by President Obama to be an attorney-advisor to Secretary Janet Napolitano at the Department of Homeland Security. While at DHS, Regent Acker worked on cyber, immigration and other homeland security issues, and served on the staffs of both Secretary Napolitano and Deputy Secretary Jane Lute.
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The other thing about that is this:
-the question is being asked if the arch rival hired a private investigation, firm to catch you cheating, because they couldn’t beat you
-the question everyone else is asking is, did Michigan start cheating because they couldn’t beat their arch rival
now when you look at the evidence that actually exists, including the performance against the rival before, and after the cheating, the performance against the spread before, and after the cheating, clearly one of those questions has strong evidence to support it, while the other is purely, made up with not 1 ounce of evidence to support it
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So embarrassing for that whole school.
as part of their self delusion and deflection, they desperately grasp at straws for a scapegoat.
despite the fact that they have not one shred of evidence, and that it’s been fully debunked already, they want to blame their arch rivals coach.
Notice it’s never anyone in their own program that did the dirty deeds? we’re all still waiting for this “dossier” of dirt they have on other programs. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Unless the Buckeyes did hire a PI firm and did exactly that. In my delusion I thought this was a Buckeye turd from the beginning but I'm not in a position to know. A U of M Regent is.
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Unless the Buckeyes did hire a PI firm to do exactly that. In my delusion I thought this was a Buckeye turd from the beginning but I'm not in a position to know. A U of M Regent is.
Sure. Since The brass at the University of Michigan has been so objective and correct about all of this. 😂😂😂
Even though it doesn’t appear to even be possible that this came from Ohio State, the humor is basically Michigan is saying:
” hey- they cheated to catch us cheating 😢
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I don't now why a regent would know about such things. He may have been told this happened, but being told a thing and knowing it are ...
Maybe OSU did hire a PI firm, let's see the evidence, and of course doing so wouldn't be against rules.
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">OSU HC Ryan Day, via WBNS-10TV:<br><br>"We've learned a lot about what's gone on the last two years...I don't think it does any good to comment on it right now. There'll be a time and place for that. What matters is this game and getting our guys prepared to go win it." <a href="https://t.co/CSrbHy9f0H">pic.twitter.com/CSrbHy9f0H</a></p>— Anthony Broome (@anthonytbroome) <a href="https://twitter.com/anthonytbroome/status/1726768929777844662?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 21, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
That's right, the only way Michigan could have kicked the Buckeyes' ass the last two years was if they had stolen their signs, even though they had changed them. Sounds like he's manufacturing an excuse.
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The other thing about that is this:
-the question is being asked if the arch rival hired a private investigation, firm to catch you cheating, because they couldn’t beat you
-the question everyone else is asking is, did Michigan start cheating because they couldn’t beat their arch rival
now when you look at the evidence that actually exists, including the performance against the rival before, and after the cheating, the performance against the spread before, and after the cheating, clearly one of those questions has strong evidence to support it, while the other is purely, made up with not 1 ounce of evidence to support it
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LOSER!!!
:57:
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">OSU HC Ryan Day, via WBNS-10TV:<br><br>"We've learned a lot about what's gone on the last two years...I don't think it does any good to comment on it right now. There'll be a time and place for that. What matters is this game and getting our guys prepared to go win it." <a href="https://t.co/CSrbHy9f0H">pic.twitter.com/CSrbHy9f0H</a></p>— Anthony Broome (@anthonytbroome) <a href="https://twitter.com/anthonytbroome/status/1726768929777844662?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 21, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
That's right, the only way Michigan could have kicked the Buckeyes' ass the last two years was if they had stolen their signs, even though they had changed them.
Grasping at straws. He said nothing of the kind.
meanwhile your head cheater, Harbaugh was talking about his mother’s bathing suit during his press conference yesterday, 😂😂
no Michigan fan has the right to talk about any other coach when you have that bozo in front of a microphone,
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meanwhile your head cheater, Harbaugh was talking about his mother’s bathing suit during his press conference yesterday, 😂😂
Stealing quotes from Ted Lasso. On brand for the program.
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Oh is that where he got it? I thought that seemed a little to clever for a guy who routinely seemed dazed and confused
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let's see the evidence
Nah.. let’s not do that. Let’s post 15 different Twitter feeds showing the indisputable facts because they’re from a team’s fan base and then claim anyone questioning it is just deflecting. That’s the new normal. And if you just want to wait until the facts come out, you’re just supporting cheating.
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Hang on. That is a UM Regent, saying those things? Seriously?
Yes
Those types need to stay out of the fray, in my opinion.
This brings me back to a discussion that @SuperMario (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1596) and I were having about Santa Ono.
I'll start by saying that I completely agree with @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) here. For the University President and now a Regent to jump into this situation publicly is, IMHO, a REALLY bad look.
A while ago (not clicking back through this 150+ page thread to find it) I had the aforementioned discussion with Mario. What I stated was that Ono's jumping in was the biggest thing giving me pause about jumping in on this thing 100% from the tOSU side because I thought it would be insane for him to do that unless he knew something.
I've changed my mind. It is insane for people like University President Ono and Regent Acker to get into the fray even if they are standing on some solid ground. Those types need to be the adults in the room who are then capable of coming in after the fact and dealing with the fallout. By inserting themselves into the controversy they have effectively abandoned that ability. Simultaneously, they are presenting the impression to the rest of the world that the University of Michigan as an institution actively supports rule breaking. That is a terrible look to all but the die-hard Michigan fans.
Note that I was holding off on judgement of the Ono situation BEFORE the revelations last week caused Michigan to drop their suit against the league and fire a coach. Those things are part of what caused me to change my mind. It seems apparent that Ono did NOT know those were coming or else he wouldn't have jumped in when he did. That illustrates one of the major problems with Ono/Acker getting involved now. It is a truism that you don't know what you don't know. That is one of the risks for Ono/Acker. They don't know what they don't know. This thing *COULD* get worse for Michigan. The more that happens after Ono/Acker have stepped in, the worse it looks for the University and their "control" over the football program.
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They aren’t jumping into the Fray. Look at this thread alone. It could be completely silent and then it’s post after post of non-UM constantly talking about it with nothing new. Posting pictures of Stallions on the sideline with arrows. It’s obsessive and because if it a normal human will eventually respond, even the university President.
Stallions was on the sidelines! Ground breaking. He was probably stealing signs. Ground breaking! Yet we still have no idea the involvement nor knowledge of anyone else at the university.
Did they cross a line? Probably. But it’s also comical that so many fans are acting like their teams is always taking the high road like their team would never steal a sign and anyone thinking otherwise is a deflecting, cheater supporter and this college football game is littered with perfect moral code everywhere outside Ann Arbor. It gets old.
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If delusional Buckeyes think they've been loosing to Michigan due to cheating, all the better.
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I don't now why a regent would know about such things. He may have been told this happened, but being told a thing and knowing it are ...
Maybe OSU did hire a PI firm, let's see the evidence, and of course doing so wouldn't be against rules.
Nah.. let’s not do that. Let’s post 15 different Twitter feeds showing the indisputable facts because they’re from a team’s fan base and then claim anyone questioning it is just deflecting. That’s the new normal. And if you just want to wait until the facts come out, you’re just supporting cheating.
Note that @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) was asking to see the evidence that tOSU hired a PI firm.
It is a fair point because this has been thrown out by the Michigan faithful and actually caused Ryan Day and his family to receive death threats but there has been zero evidence. Bottom line, Ryan Day got death threats because Michigan cheated and lied about it.
Aside from that, Cincy's comment after the request for evidence is important. The Michigan "insiders" have been wrong at every step of this process. Even if we assume that this time they are right and this whole Michigan cheating ring was exposed by Ryan Day/Ohio State, so what? Are @MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) , @Honestbuckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=37) , and I supposed to be ashamed that our school caught yours cheating and turned them in to the NCAA? As I read it this argument boils down to:
- Ohio State fan: "Michigan cheated"
- Michigan response: "You turned us in"
Do you Michigan guys actually see this as a "gotcha"?
Let me just say right here and now, if my school discovered Michigan's cheating and turned them in, that breaks no rules and I'm glad my guys were out there protecting the integrity of the game from the cheaters in Ann Arbor.
I don't think this is completely impossible. I think we've all seen the clip from the first drive of The Game last year where Stalions decodes Ohio State's signals and points up to indicate pass then basically the entire Michigan sideline points up (because they were all in on it). It is entirely possible that the tOSU coaches noticed that (or something like it) when reviewing tape of The Game from 2022 then started digging. Maybe they looked through Michigan's list of coaches and discovered that one of their names matched a buyer of tickets to multiple Ohio State games during the 2022 season. Then they could potentially have reviewed surveillance tapes from the stadium and figured out that the guy in the seat bought by Connor Stalions at say the Indiana appeared to be filming the tOSU sideline. Then maybe they checked with some friendly AD's around the league and discovered that Stalions had bought tickets to games in their stadiums as well, then they went to the NCAA.
I am not completely ruling out this possibility but I do have two comments about it:
First, see above, it wouldn't bother me in the least nor would it indicate any violation of rules, ethics, or integrity by Ohio State if it was 100% true.
Second, this is extraordinarily unlikely. Even if Ohio State did notice this, nobody would assume that the cheaters would be so monumentally stupid as to use THEIR OWN CREDIT CARD to buy the advance scouting tickets. For now my theory is that this either grew out of the Weiss investigation or there was a whistle-blower.
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Seems to me the only thing being unsubstantiated in this thread is false narratives about blaming other schools.
There are plenty of facts already out that Michigan did cross the line. Suspensions, resignations and terminations support that.
But this thread dies down nicely until UM posters start throwing shit against the wall. Shit that has literally no basis in fact , or even circumstantial evidence. Just made up. Shit that has lead to repeated death threats.
If someone wants to whine about the OSU coach, or claim that Michigan is going to drag down the rest of the conference with all of this damming evidence how others do it, at least present some factual evidence.
Stop with the “ just because I said so”
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They aren’t jumping into the Fray. Look at this thread alone. It could be completely silent and then it’s post after post of non-UM constantly talking about it with nothing new. Posting pictures of Stallions on the sideline with arrows. It’s obsessive and because if it a normal human will eventually respond, even the university President.
Stallions was on the sidelines! Ground breaking. He was probably stealing signs. Ground breaking! Yet we still have no idea the involvement nor knowledge of anyone else at the university.
Did they cross a line? Probably. But it’s also comical that so many fans are acting like their teams is always taking the high road like their team would never steal a sign and anyone thinking otherwise is a deflecting, cheater supporter and this college football game is littered with perfect moral code everywhere outside Ann Arbor. It gets old.
Nobody here said that.
Michigan cheated and got caught. There is no dispute about that.
Other programs have cheated in the past and gotten away with it. Ok, not disputing that. I once watched a NC Game in which Auburn had a QB that was paid (IIRC) half a million to play for them (pre NIL when this was not permitted). It has happened.
Taking a view most favorable to your defense:
Lets say you are driving up I271 (for those unaware, @SuperMario (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1596) lives near me and we've met so this is a road local to us). Now lets say you are driving 80 MPH and I pass you doing 90 MPH. Shortly after I pass you, I drive past a U-turn and right after I pass that U-turn, a cop pulls in, sets up his radar, and clocks you doing 80 MPH. @Roaddawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=68) then pulls out, pulls you over, and gives you a ticket for doing 80 in a 65.
Your defense is that @medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) was driving faster. Sorry dude, no dice. Medina didn't get caught and you did. That doesn't mean Medina didn't break the limit but whether or not Medina broke the limit has no bearing whatsoever on the fact that Mario now has to pay a fine because he got caught driving 15 MPH over the limit.
Any cop, judge, prosecutor, or for that matter defense attorney will tell you that the "other people drove faster" defense is a non-starter.
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So let me get this straight. There’s absolutely no facts that Ryan Day and his PI brother were not involved and he’s a saint that turned in cheaters.
There’s tons of facts that Jim Harbaugh is a scumbag cheater that sucked before he started cheating in 2021 and shame on anyone defending his career getting destroyed even though all the facts prove he cheated.
That’s basically what’s happening. So please, when your corner takes the moral high ground, it’s not well received because so much of your corner is approaching just like I described. Not saying you are by any means, but reasonableness from most fans has been out the window for a while.
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Nobody here said that.
Michigan cheated and got caught. There is no dispute about that.
Other programs have cheated in the past and gotten away with it. Ok, not disputing that. I once watched a NC Game in which Auburn had a QB that was paid (IIRC) half a million to play for them (pre NIL when this was not permitted). It has happened.
Taking a view most favorable to your defense:
Lets say you are driving up I271 (for those unaware, @SuperMario (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1596) lives near me and we've met so this is a road local to us). Now lets say you are driving 80 MPH and I pass you doing 90 MPH. Shortly after I pass you, I drive past a U-turn and right after I pass that U-turn, a cop pulls in, sets up his radar, and clocks you doing 80 MPH. @Roaddawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=68) then pulls out, pulls you over, and gives you a ticket for doing 80 in a 65.
Your defense is that @medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) was driving faster. Sorry dude, no dice. Medina didn't get caught and you did. That doesn't mean Medina didn't break the limit but whether or not Medina broke the limit has no bearing whatsoever on the fact that Mario now has to pay a fine because he got caught driving 15 MPH over the limit.
Any cop, judge, prosecutor, or for that matter defense attorney will tell you that the "other people drove faster" defense is a non-starter.
Lol. First, your example is hilarious. I wish roaddawg posted here still. Good dude.
secondly, I’m personally not claiming rules weren’t broken and justifying them saying everyone is doing it.
here’s the part you’re missing. After the cop gives me the ticket for speeding. You run around and grab a megaphone in my neighborhood that I’m a scumbag because I was speeding and got caught and no one anywhere ever drives over the speed limit and the guy that got caught is the scum of the earth and deserves to lose his license forever.
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The key for me is whether this conferred advantage to Michigan in games. If it did, and is proven (more or less), they deserve considerable penalties.
It's still possible that didn't happen.
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So let me get this straight. There’s absolutely no facts that Ryan Day and his PI brother were not involved and he’s a saint that turned in cheaters.
There’s tons of facts that Jim Harbaugh is a scumbag cheater that sucked before he started cheating in 2021 and shame on anyone defending his career getting destroyed even though all the facts prove he cheated.
That’s basically what’s happening. So please, when your corner takes the moral high ground, it’s not well received because so much of your corner is approaching just like I described. Not saying you are by any means, but reasonableness from most fans has been out the window for a while.
If it becomes widely known Ohio State hired a PI firm to spy on Michigan the Buckeyes will be slapping each other on the back and congratulating themselves. Probably already are.
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So let me get this straight. There’s absolutely no facts that Ryan Day and his PI brother were not involved and he’s a saint that turned in cheaters.
AFAIK, there are no facts at all on this issue. Note, however, that it isn't even an issue except that Michigan defenders possibly including employees have tossed out this completely unfounded allegation. If this allegation has any support, let's see it.
Note that even if Ryan Day and/or his brother are behind Michigan getting caught that does NOT imply any illegal, unethical, or otherwise impermissible conduct by Ryan Day, his brother, The Ohio State University, or anyone else other than the University of Michigan and their employees.
There’s tons of facts that Jim Harbaugh is a scumbag cheater that sucked before he started cheating in 2021 and shame on anyone defending his career getting destroyed even though all the facts prove he cheated.
Well there are facts demonstrating to the satisfaction of the NCAA and the B1G that Harbaugh's program began cheating in 2021. Prior to that he had five losses to Ohio State and one game not played because he claimed that his team (which royally sucked that year) had COVID. If you want to know if he sucked in 2020 and prior, please refer to basically any post by @Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595) from that era.
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The key for me is whether this conferred advantage to Michigan in games. If it did, and is proven (more or less), they deserve considerable penalties.
It's still possible that didn't happen.
doesn't matter a lick to me
it broke a rule and for the sole intent to gain an advantage
whether it really did or not isn't important
besides, tough to determine how much it helped
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If it becomes widely known Ohio State hired a PI firm to spy on Michigan the Buckeyes will be slapping each other on the back and congratulating themselves. Probably already are.
Please answer these three questions:
If Ohio State hired a PI firm to protect the integrity of the game from Michigan's cheating, what is wrong with that?
Why would I be embarrassed by that?
You seem to be implying that I should be more embarrassed by the allegation of my school hiring a PI firm to catch a cheater than you should be by the fact that your school cheated. Is that your position?
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If it becomes widely known Ohio State hired a PI firm to spy on Michigan the Buckeyes will be slapping each other on the back and congratulating themselves. Probably already are.
You’re correct in that some fans would react that way.
But sitting here now- there is literally NOTHING to suggest that. NOTHING.
it is merely a suggestion thrown out there by UM insiders- and the UM faithful are praying it is true. They seem to think that in some way, it absolves the program from what Stalions did, and all the negative PR that has come with it.
And think about this objectively- it has lead to repeated death threats to numerous members of a family. You surely can’t be ok with that?
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As far as I know, not even the fanatic M fans are debating the fact that Michigan cheated. Are you disputing that?
Are you saying that you think there is some chance that Michigan will not have to vacate two of their three wins over Ohio State from the past 20 years?
AND you think I'm the one having a fantasy?
not disputing anything. was not talking about that at all.
was talking about how psycho OSU fans are and the pressure that is on Cryin' Ryan aka Born on 3rd Base.
And yes, you are the one having a fantasy if you don't think Day is in serious trouble if he loses THE GAME this weekend.
Homeboy's seat will be flaming hot in '24 if he loses this weekend. And if he loses in '24 by some miracle- which he shouldn't- he should be the heavy favorite at home- but IF HE DOES lose this weekend and then loses in '24 at home.....there's a greater than 50% chance he's fired. And if he somehow doesn't get fired....in '25 his ass will be coaching for his job in THE GAME and it's 100% he'd get fired if he lost that one.
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heck, there's gotta be a couple PI Firms that are owned by huge Buckeye fans
they'd be HEROS for doing on their own time and dime!
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Well there are facts demonstrating to the satisfaction of the NCAA and the B1G that Harbaugh's program began cheating in 2021. Prior to that he had five losses to Ohio State and one game not played because he claimed that his team (which royally sucked that year) had COVID. If you want to know if he sucked in 2020 and prior, please refer to basically any post by @Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595) from that era.
Ok. Let’s use your logic.
In the 1990’s, running into early 2000’s, Ohio state couldn’t beat Michigan. They hired a guy that had connections with many donors. Suddenly, the team brings in higher level talent and start winning. CHEATERS. Proven because NCAA sanctions and he lost his job.
and here’s the upcoming response. Not proven not the same because it didn’t impact in game results and decisions. It’s just different.
what’s interesting is Michigan winning Saturday destroys so many arguments. Big stake on both sides for this outcome.
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You’re correct in that some fans would react that way.
But sitting here now- there is literally NOTHING to suggest that. NOTHING.
it is merely a suggestion thrown out there by UM insiders- and the UM faithful are praying it is true. They seem to think that in some way, it absolves the program from what Stalions did, and all the negative PR that has come with it.
And think about this objectively- it has lead to repeated death threats to numerous members of a family. You surely can’t be ok with that?
Whether its true or not makes no difference w.r.t. Michigan's situation. No telling if anyone hopes its true or not. A lot of Michigan people think it happened for some reason...like finding a giant dog turd in your front yard. You might think it was your neighbor's St. Bernard. Unfortunate that death threats happened, law enforcement should track them down and prosecute to the full extent.
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what’s interesting is Michigan winning Saturday destroys so many arguments. Big stake on both sides for this outcome.
I want to isolate this paragraph and (mostly) agree with you.
Look everyone, @SuperMario (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1596) and @medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) medinabuckeye1 agreeing during hate week!
I will clarify my agreement:
I think the outcome this year will have a big impact on how the rest of CFB views this thing. For tOSU and M fans, not so much.
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not disputing anything. was not talking about that at all.
was talking about how psycho OSU fans are and the pressure that is on Cryin' Ryan aka Born on 3rd Base.
And yes, you are the one having a fantasy if you don't think Day is in serious trouble if he loses THE GAME this weekend.
Homeboy's seat will be flaming hot in '24 if he loses this weekend. And if he loses in '24 by some miracle- which he shouldn't- he should be the heavy favorite at home- but IF HE DOES lose this weekend and then loses in '24 at home.....there's a greater than 50% chance he's fired. And if he somehow doesn't get fired....in '25 his ass will be coaching for his job in THE GAME and it's 100% he'd get fired if he lost that one.
That would be quite a mistake.
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That would be quite a mistake.
If Ohio State loses there's better than a 50% chance Day is fired on Sunday. Some Buckeye fans like Urban Meyer say he'll be fired for sure.
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I want to isolate this paragraph and (mostly) agree with you.
Look everyone, @SuperMario (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1596) and @medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) medinabuckeye1 agreeing during hate week!
I will clarify my agreement:
I think the outcome this year will have a big impact on how the rest of CFB views this thing. For tOSU and M fans, not so much.
I disagree. Saturday’s outcome doesn’t prove a thing- either way.
last year’s game was a completely different set of teams for both sides.
I’m not saying, the cheating was the reason one side, one or Lost
football is a game of momentum. If one team had the other teams, play, Call, even one time through illegal means, at a crucial time in the game, it could completely tilt the field and changed the longer term outcome.
and that is a question, that is a credible question, and that is the point
if Ohio State were to win, it would not prove anything about last year‘s game. Michigan wins, which is my expectation. It doesn’t prove anything about last year’s game.
different teams, different players, different stadiums, different momentum, etc. etc. etc.
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I want to isolate this paragraph and (mostly) agree with you.
Look everyone, @SuperMario (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1596) and @medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) medinabuckeye1 agreeing during hate week!
I will clarify my agreement:
I think the outcome this year will have a big impact on how the rest of CFB views this thing. For tOSU and M fans, not so much.
Ha. I very much agree. Those two fan bases will firmly be on the extreme on each side l, with the truth being somewhere closer to the middle, yet possibly closer to one side.
If OSU wins, the OsU megaphone will get louder lol and likely solidify Harbaugh to the NFL.
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So let me get this straight. There’s absolutely no facts that Ryan Day and his PI brother were not involved and he’s a saint that turned in cheaters.
That (Day and PI brother) was a Troll podcast by Zack Smith (potty mouth, scum bag ex-OSU coach,) and was not based on any actual evidence. Poor TCUN fans grabbed onto it hook, line, and sinker and Smith got to go viral.
The only investigative firm I've seen documented (besides the FBI) is U.S. Integrity the Vegas-based firm whose job is to make sure games gambled on are legitimate and not influenced by illegal means.
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If Ohio State loses there's better than a 50% chance Day is fired on Sunday. Some Buckeye fans like Urban Meyer say he'll be fired for sure.
On this one, you can only dream. There’s a 0% chance of that happening.
56-6. 3CFP Appearances. Best record of all active coaches against ranked teams.
And here is the part that you’re just not getting:
Because of what Michigan has been caught doing, the overwhelming majority of the fan base has now given him a pass on the last two years.
Lastly- He’s going on the road as an underdog. I would give him a plus for his coaching job this season, regardless of what happened Saturday. This was his best coaching job by far
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In the 1990’s, running into early 2000’s, Ohio state couldn’t beat Michigan. They hired a guy that had connections with many donors. Suddenly, the team brings in higher level talent and start winning. CHEATERS. Proven because NCAA sanctions and he lost his job.
and here’s the upcoming response. Not proven not the same because it didn’t impact in game results and decisions. It’s just different.
First:
Completely irrelevant to the current issue of Michigan's covert sign stealing operation.
Second:
Cooper never lacked for talent after his first few years. The 1993-2000 Ohio State teams had LOTS of talent and Tressel started beating Michigan and won an NC largely with guys Cooper brought in.
Third:
Tressel got caught failing to disclose knowledge of impermissible benefits and got fired.
Fourth:
If you want to go down the past transgressions rabbit hole just remember that your school beat mine in an Elite-Eight BB game by using a team with a payroll that rivaled some NBA teams. Guys trading Bowl swag for tattoos doesn't come close to Michigan's industrial-scale cheating.
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If Ohio State loses there's better than a 50% chance Day is fired on Sunday. Some Buckeye fans like Urban Meyer say he'll be fired for sure.
Buckeyes in my circle believe the same. I personally don’t, based on Day’s record outside that game, but there’s certainly some buckeye fans that would want him gone if they lose Saturday which is surprising to me.
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On this one, you can only dream. There’s a 0% chance of that happening.
56-6. 3CFP Appearances. Best record of all active coaches against ranked teams.
And here is the part that you’re just not getting:
Because of what Michigan has been caught doing, the overwhelming majority of the fan base has now given him a pass on the last two years.
Lastly- He’s going on the road as an underdog. I would give him a plus for his coaching job this season, regardless of what happened Saturday. This was his best coaching job by far
I would call that motive for Day to do what I in my delusions think he did. But please don't misunderstand me, I don't want to see Day fired.
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I disagree. Saturday’s outcome doesn’t prove a thing- either way.
last year’s game was a completely different set of teams for both sides.
I’m not saying, the cheating was the reason one side, one or Lost
football is a game of momentum. If one team had the other teams, play, Call, even one time through illegal means, at a crucial time in the game, it could completely tilt the field and changed the longer term outcome.
and that is a question, that is a credible question, and that is the point
if Ohio State were to win, it would not prove anything about last year‘s game. Michigan wins, which is my expectation. It doesn’t prove anything about last year’s game.
different teams, different players, different stadiums, different momentum, etc. etc. etc.
I agree with you, the outcome this year doesn't prove anything about last year. I didn't say it did. In my post I said it would impact the view of it. I wasn't talking about reality. I was talking about something much more important, perception.
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Buckeyes in my circle believe the same. I personally don’t, based on Day’s record outside that game, but there’s certainly some buckeye fans that would want him gone if they lose Saturday which is surprising to me.
There are nuts in every fanbase.
Even completely ignoring the Michigan cheating issue, you just don't fire a guy with Day's record.
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Yeah, I don't see how that changes anything.
This is Michigans best team of the past three years, and probably Ohio States worst, and the game is in Ann Arbor. I would expect Michigan to win this game
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Yeah, I don't see how that changes anything.
This is Michigans best team of the past three years, and probably Ohio States worst, and the game is in Ann Arbor. I would expect Michigan to win this game
FWIW:
I think this makes a Michigan win more excusable for tOSU than a tOSU win would be for Michigan.
OTOH, Michigan's answer, should they lose, will be to blame it on distraction and suspension.
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On this one, you can only dream. There’s a 0% chance of that happening.
56-6. 3CFP Appearances. Best record of all active coaches against ranked teams.
And here is the part that you’re just not getting:
Because of what Michigan has been caught doing, the overwhelming majority of the fan base has now given him a pass on the last two years.
Lastly- He’s going on the road as an underdog. I would give him a plus for his coaching job this season, regardless of what happened Saturday. This was his best coaching job by far
This is how I and most of my circle see it. The Game is still the biggest most important game to an OSU fan, but TCUN getting caught with their hand in the cookie jar has given Day a pass on the last two losses.
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So let me get this straight. There’s absolutely no facts that Ryan Day and his PI brother were not involved and he’s a saint that turned in cheaters.
There’s tons of facts that Jim Harbaugh is a scumbag cheater that sucked before he started cheating in 2021 and shame on anyone defending his career getting destroyed even though all the facts prove he cheated.
That’s basically what’s happening. So please, when your corner takes the moral high ground, it’s not well received because so much of your corner is approaching just like I described. Not saying you are by any means, but reasonableness from most fans has been out the window for a while.
Umm, I think most of us on this thread, and particularly the person not on this thread but who sent the letter announcing the suspension (Pettitti), have stated that we don't know if Harbaugh knew anything about this. Which is why he is not being punished..
There are tons of facts that MICHIGAN cheated. Exactly how high up that cheating went is unclear. But that is why MICHIGAN was punished by the B1G.
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If Ohio State loses there's better than a 50% chance Day is fired on Sunday. Some Buckeye fans like Urban Meyer say he'll be fired for sure.
Buckeye fans are crazy but there is zero chance Ryan Day is fired unless he wins and start streaking across the field with "Suck it Harbaugh" written across his butt
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If he did that, I'd think they'd build him a statue.
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If he did that, I'd think they'd build him a statue.
The only part that would be an issue is the streaking.
If he wins then just unloads on Michigan/Harbaugh/Cheating at his post-game press conference there will be statues.
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Umm, I think most of us on this thread, and particularly the person not on this thread but who sent the letter announcing the suspension (Pettitti), have stated that we don't know if Harbaugh knew anything about this. Which is why he is not being punished..
There are tons of facts that MICHIGAN cheated. Exactly how high up that cheating went is unclear. But that is why MICHIGAN was punished by the B1G.
This is a very fair statement and I am making the mistake of paying attention to those that scream the loudest rather than the majority of what's being said. Definitely need to correct that on my end.
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First:
Completely irrelevant to the current issue of Michigan's covert sign stealing operation.
Second:
Cooper never lacked for talent after his first few years. The 1993-2000 Ohio State teams had LOTS of talent and Tressel started beating Michigan and won an NC largely with guys Cooper brought in.
Third:
Tressel got caught failing to disclose knowledge of impermissible benefits and got fired.
Fourth:
If you want to go down the past transgressions rabbit hole just remember that your school beat mine in an Elite-Eight BB game by using a team with a payroll that rivaled some NBA teams. Guys trading Bowl swag for tattoos doesn't come close to Michigan's industrial-scale cheating.
1) Agree, but was not exactly the point.
2)Mo Clarrett was certainly not a cooper guy
3-4) There's far more to the tressel/donors story which is more similar to the Michigan bball story than you would care to believe.
And yes, none of that is relevant to this topic and Michigan crossing the line of sign stealing. My point was more directed at the consistent posts that Michigan only won 2021 and 2022 because of sign stealing and we keep posting about Harbaugh's record before 2021 and then after, while ignoring every factor involved.
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Lol. First, your example is hilarious. I wish roaddawg posted here still. Good dude.
secondly, I’m personally not claiming rules weren’t broken and justifying them saying everyone is doing it.
here’s the part you’re missing. After the cop gives me the ticket for speeding. You run around and grab a megaphone in my neighborhood that I’m a scumbag because I was speeding and got caught and no one anywhere ever drives over the speed limit and the guy that got caught is the scum of the earth and deserves to lose his license forever.
Thanks on the first paragraph.
On the second paragraph I do see where you are coming from but I have a few points about it.
First, you have at least acknowledged that Michigan crossed a line with what we know about Stalions covert sign stealing ring. Some of our (Ohio State fans generally) responses you need to understand are more directed at the HUMONGOUS portion of the M fanbase (and apparently some of the higher ups) who refuse to acknowledge that they did anything wrong. Specifically to this thread, I haven't heard anything like that from your brethren, just completely unfounded accusations that Ryan Day and/or his brother turned Michigan in which wouldn't be unethical, immoral, illegal, or against NCAA rules even if true.
I think if the bulk of the M fanbase reacted with something like "Ok, this isn't good, we appear to have broken the rules but other teams have broken other rules" there wouldn't be quite so much vitriol coming back at you. My perception is that the bulk of the M fanbase is in the @Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595) / @Temp430 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=131) camp of basically "F the rules, F Ohio State, F Ryan Day, we can do whatever the F we want because Ohio State did something wrong once and oh by the way, Day/Ohio State turning us in for cheating is way worse and a way bigger deal than the possibility that some low-level lone wolf Michigan guy did something that shouldn't even be against the rules."
Second, this is just the nature of the business. Most Michigan fans didn't hold back during Tatoogate because their basketball cheating scandal was exponentially worse and Ohio State fans aren't going to hold back during signgate because Tatoogate happened. That just isn't how these things work.
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Specifically to this thread, I haven't heard anything like that from your brethren, just completely unfounded accusations that Ryan Day and/or his brother turned Michigan in which wouldn't be unethical, immoral, illegal, or against NCAA rules even if true.
I haven't said much about it because I haven't seen any factual evidence. That being said, I do think it's weird when the story broke, it was tips from a PI firm. Then it comes out Day's brother runs a PI firm with a football based name for his firm and he has some childhood friends that took up shop in MI. Then the media (ESPN/Yahoo side) suddenly shift that it was vegas and the gambling side are the firm.
Do I think all of that matters most? no, but it makes me wonder what is narrative to shape the story and what are facts and I'll be the first to admit I have no idea. I'm not 100% there's ZERO ties to day's brother and it wouldn't be the craziest thing if there were. I not 100% certain that michigan simply broke the rules and it altered outcomes that ultimately impacted Vegas and they're pissed. We may also never know the truth either lol. It's also definitely weird that Michigan has been completely wrong so far on their "inside" versions of the story so it's definitely possible the Day connections are completely fabricated, but I'm a numbers guy and a black and white guy so I like cold hard facts before making a complete decision on where I stand. I always consider probabilities, but I never sit fully comfortable with things until it's an outcome as opposed to a high probability.
Second, this is just the nature of the business. Most Michigan fans didn't hold back during Tatoogate because their basketball cheating scandal was exponentially worse and Ohio State fans aren't going to hold back during signgate because Tatoogate happened. That just isn't how these things work.
This is very true. What has always drawn me back to this board is how the group discusses difficult topics as opposed to the crazy extremists on either side. There's just a few times each side has flirted with the extremist side on this one. Looking back on the discussions of tattoogate and the Penn St terrible situation, there's always been some brazen opinions, but the group has largely landed in a reasonable place with some understanding it sucks to be a fan when your program is in the middle of a crummy situation. Life can have too many problems that it's just so much easier when our fanhood doesn't lead us to a situation where our program, players, universities cross moral lines. That just sucks.
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If it becomes widely known Ohio State hired a PI firm to spy on Michigan the Buckeyes will be slapping each other on the back and congratulating themselves. Probably already are.
Just last Friday Michigan/Harbaugh had a chance at a court hearing and took a pass.Why did they roll over and accept a ruling they swore were going to die on that hill if they did nothing wrong? Because as daft as he is Harbaugh knows he can get away with lying to their legions or the culpable Detroit media. Michigan cancelled that TRO faster than they did the 2020 Covid Game. Why have Weiss,Stalions and Partridge been FIRED and Harbaugh's extension put on hold if all of this is a big nothingburger as their canards would have others believe? The farther up the flagpole this goes the more ass is revealed - that's why. This could have favored bettors with inside info also,Vegas is none too happy as the Wolverines were dogged in both contests.
UM Football when their bluff was called
(https://media.tenor.com/vo3TPMJpXy0AAAAd/baby-turns-around.gif)[
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If he did that, I'd think they'd build him a statue.
If he then went on to fight Lou Holthz for charity, they might build him two.
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If Ohio State loses there's better than a 50% chance Day is fired on Sunday. Some Buckeye fans like Urban Meyer say he'll be fired for sure.
Um,no last year bought him distance but at 11,400,000. he should take a cut - Harbaugh did and we all want to follow his lead
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there’s zero chance he gets fired if he loses this Saturday.
However, his seat becomes HOT in ‘24. And if he were to lose at home as a heavy favorite - his seat would start to get flaming hot and he could possibly be out and he would 100000% be coaching for his job in THE GAME in ‘25.
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Yeah, as much as Michigan is the better team and at home this year, that flips next year
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I haven't said much about it because I haven't seen any factual evidence. That being said, I do think it's weird when the story broke, it was tips from a PI firm. Then it comes out Day's brother runs a PI firm with a football based name for his firm and he has some childhood friends that took up shop in MI. Then the media (ESPN/Yahoo side) suddenly shift that it was vegas and the gambling side are the firm.
We don't know where it came from and you have a good point (later in your post, not quoted here) that we may never know. As I said upthread it is certainly possible that it came from Day/Ohio State. OTOH, I find that highly unlikely because I just don't think they would have been able to figure it out looking from the outside. I still think the VASTLY more likely sources are either the Weiss investigation or a whistleblower.
I interpreted something earlier as suggesting that US Integrity (the Vegas-based gambling investigation firm) was the source but I want to walk that back. There have been leaks that they are "involved" but that could be after the revelation. I haven't seen anything official or even a reasonably credible leak suggesting that US Integrity was the source of the original revelations.
It has been denied, but I still think it all grew out of the Weiss thing. That gave various investigators access and that access is what, IMHO, most likely led to the discovery of documentation of the spying.
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This is very true. What has always drawn me back to this board is how the group discusses difficult topics as opposed to the crazy extremists on either side. There's just a few times each side has flirted with the extremist side on this one. Looking back on the discussions of tattoogate and the Penn St terrible situation, there's always been some brazen opinions, but the group has largely landed in a reasonable place with some understanding it sucks to be a fan when your program is in the middle of a crummy situation. Life can have too many problems that it's just so much easier when our fanhood doesn't lead us to a situation where our program, players, universities cross moral lines. That just sucks.
This is my relationship with this board as well. I started out on a Buckeye board but the people there were too homerish for my tastes. Then I started going to a Michigan board as well to basically get the other side but that was just as reality-detached and had the added fact of being disagreeable. If I'm going to hang with reality-detached people, I'll at least stick with reality-detached people who wear the same colors.
I like the more realistic back-and-forth here. For many years I ran the Power Rankings threads here and one thing I always found that most outsiders would NEVER expect is that rather than getting ridiculous homer votes I saw a lot more ridiculous anti-homer votes. The lowest votes for Ohio State usually came from tOSU fans and same thing for most teams here.
Here is @medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) 's listing of what I think are the most likely sources of the original revelations (most to least likely):
- The Weiss investigation.
- Weiss or another spurned past employee blew the whistle.
- A whistle blower completely unrelated to the Weiss situation.
- An investigation by US Integrity on the basis of Michigan's unusually strong performance ATS.
- Ryan Day / Ohio State or possibly another B1G Coach or a group of B1G coaches noticed things on tape that suggested that Michigan was getting signals in advance and one of them or some group of them got together and hired someone to look into it.
- My Favorite Possibility (lifted from @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) ): Jeff the MSU fan who lives in Stalions' neighborhood and whom Stalions alleged turned him in for running his refurbished vacuum cleaner business out of his home in contravention of local zoning or HOA regulations was so mad at Stalions that he hired a PI to track him and Jeff the MSU fan's PI discovered Stalions' spying ring. This would be epic!
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It's also definitely weird that Michigan has been completely wrong so far on their "inside" versions of the story
This is one of the most interesting aspects of this story. It is also part of the reason, I think, that the bulk of the Michigan faithful have been so completely reality-detached through this saga. They aren't getting any of the news from "their" people. It is ALL coming from the outside. It wasn't like that with Tattoo-gate. We (tOSU faithful) had at least some inkling from "our" people that this was bad before it became blindingly obvious and undeniable.
Michigan fans generally haven't been getting that. "Their" insiders have been basically doing this:
(https://i.imgur.com/9j8E3B1.png)
Michigan fans both out of optimism and out of familiarity have trusted "their" guys and been burned repeatedly.
My honest take on this (trying to be fair):
Let me say upfront that I believe this is BAD for Michigan even if there are no further revelations. The guy who was fired last week was either fired for destroying evidence (the original leak) or for telling people not to cooperate. Either of those is BAD. The saving grace for Michigan is that they (apparently) wasted no time in getting rid of him. But that also just adds to the number of guys terminated so now we are at:
- Weiss: @Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595) said this was simply that he tried to access other people's accounts and got fired for it. That doesn't pass the smell test to me for two reasons. First, why would he? Second, that wouldn't take long to investigate and AFAIK the investigation is STILL ongoing.
- Some staffer fired after allegedly being caught buying alcohol ahead of a meeting that he thought was with an underage girl.
- Stallions fired after his sign-stealing ring became undeniable.
- Partridge fired for either destruction of evidence (Yahoo report) or for telling others not to cooperate (some other source, not much better anyway).
- Schembechler's kid fired before even starting for dumbass social media posts.
#1 and #2 aren't even related to the Sign stealing thing (other than that #1 may be the source of the revelations) and by themselves they aren't a good look. Honestly, the guy involved in #2 is REALLY lucky. If it weren't for everything else going on at Michigan right now, all the tOSU fans would be banging the drum about him and keeping his name in the news. He has been very lucky in that the other scandals have taken attention away from his situation.
Like I said, I'm trying to be fair here but this would look like a cluster-f*!k even if it wasn't going on at my schools' biggest rival. I think even the M guys can agree that the above five items are NOT a good look. Something is not right in Ann Arbor. At a minimum it begs the question of who is vetting Michigan's hires?
Then on to the sign-gate saga more specifically:
I said this once before but nobody picked it up (even to disagree) but I think this is a LOT worse than most M fans think in large part because the actual violation was planned, directed, and committed by members of the University of Michigan's football coaching staff. When we look at the Michigan BB scandal or Tattoo-gate, or the Cam Newton situation we tend to say that:
- "Michigan paid their BB players", or
- "Ohio State traded bowl swag for tattoos", or
- "Auburn paid half a million to Cam Newton."
We tend to say those things but in the three situations above the institutions had some distance (or at least tried to appear to have some distance) between themselves and the violations:
- The University of Michigan as an institution didn't pay their BB players, some guy did.
- The Ohio State University as an institution didn't trade bowl swag for tattoos, some tattoo parlor guy did.
- The University of Auburn didn't pay Cam Newton, some boosters made a "contribution" to his dad's church (I think that was the story).
Connor Stalions' sign stealing operation is fundamentally different. The violation wasn't committed by a booster or a kid. The violation was planned, orchestrated, and committed by a paid member of the Institution's Football Coaching Staff.
Even if nothing more comes out, I think that is BAD news for Michigan. This isn't just about some booster and some kid. It is about them and their employees.
Next, there are at least four not altogether unlikely avenues by which this can get WAY worse for Michigan:
First:
Ohio State fans are always going to say that Harbaugh/the staff knew. Michigan fans are always going to say that they didn't. What matters is what the NCAA can prove and what they feel is realistic. It isn't all that unlikely that the NCAA or some other body (US Integrity or the FBI) is going to find some piece of evidence that at least some people above Stalions knew full well that he was breaking rules to get opponent signals or at least knew enough that they should have known or asked.
Second:
As this conspiracy grows so too does the likelihood that at least one member of it used their knowledge of Michigan's sign stealing operation to make a little (or a lot) of money by placing bets on Michigan in the knowledge that Michigan was using impermissible means to gain an advantage. I guess we should ask @MaximumSam (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1572) or @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) but, IMHO, that is fraud. Furthermore, if they placed those bets online or used a bank (almost impossible not to) it isn't just fraud but the federal crime of wire fraud. That will bring in the FBI. People will go to jail. People facing jail time will sing like canaries. It will get ugly fast.
Three:
There was a rumor at one point that at least one of Stalions' sign stealers was a Michigan Football intern. If that is true, it could be catastrophic for Michigan. Stalions wasn't realistically in a position of sufficient authority to authorize that trip so that means somebody else had to which gets to #1.
Four:
There was a rumor that Michigan provided Tennessee's signs to USCe last year. I couldn't figure this one out. I didn't understand why Michigan would be scared of Tennessee. Now I do see a plausible reason for it. Assuming they did it, maybe it was insurance against a loss to Ohio State. If Michigan instead of Ohio State had finished 11-1 last year they would have made the CFP in part because Tennessee wasn't 11-1. If they actually attempted to manipulate CFP entrance by providing stolen signs to another team that is all kinds of bad. For one thing it will REALLY tick off another fanbase that otherwise wouldn't care and ramp up pressure on the NCAA to HAMMER them. Secondly, Stalions didn't realistically know the people on the USCe staff, but higher ups would have had connections. If this happened it probably wasn't Stalions who sent Michigan's data on Tennessee to USCe, it was someone higher up who thus obviously knew and the NCAA could potentially give USCe some sort of immunity or reduced punishment in return for testimony. This one probably isn't true but, if it is, I think it would be REALLY bad for Michigan.
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South Carolina Football, rival Clemson brought into sign-stealing scandal (garnetandcocky.com) (https://garnetandcocky.com/2023/10/28/south-carolina-football-clemson-signs/)
A ridiculously far-fetched idea has appeared out of Knoxville, Tennessee by Volunteer fans who still cannot cope with the fact that the Gamecocks smacked their favorite team up, down, and all around Williams-Brice Stadium for three hours last November (https://garnetandcocky.com/2023/01/27/south-carolina-gamecocks-rattler-wells-return/).
This conspiracy theory suggests that Michigan, in hopes of hurting Tennessee’s playoff chances, illegally stole signals from the Vols and forwarded all of their findings to the Gamecocks. According to the tin foil hat-wearing fans of the orange and white, South Carolina football only beat them because of these alleged stolen signs. They’ve even posited that Michigan did this the next week for USC’s game against Clemson.
The claims are ridiculous and also extremely hypocritical as the Volunteers just got busted this summer for over 200 violations in recent years under former head coach Jeremy Pruitt. (https://garnetandcocky.com/2023/07/14/south-carolina-football-rival-busted/)
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Michigan Reportedly May Have Assisted Another School With Signs It Had Stolen To Prevent A Specific Opponent From Making The CFP | Barstool Sports (https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3490894/michigan-reportedly-assisted-another-school-with-signs-it-had-stolen-to-prevent-a-specific-opponent-from-making-the-college-football-playoff)
If this is true, I don't know that there's another on-field scandal in college football since I've been following it that rises to this level. There's trying to decipher opponents' signals. Then there's sending spies around the country to film the sideline to have every single one of a team's signals. And then there's doing that and doling that information out to other teams to hopefully alter the path of a potential future Playoff opponent. This went deeper than anyone could have ever imagined.
As to what team this could be, Vol Twitter was abuzz yesterday that Michigan had potentially given South Carolina the information it had on Tennessee after being confirmed to have scouted the Vols' game against Kentucky. I mentioned it here (https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3490781/a-tennessee-message-board-poster-knew-about-the-michigan-sign-stealing-operation-last-december-and-tried-to-tell-us-all) halfway kidding, but it didn't not make sense. And while UT certainly played poorly in that game, 6-4 teams usually don't go from scoring six points one week to 63 — against one of the best teams in the country — the next. It also wouldn't be the first time Shane Beamer had accepted game plan information (https://twitter.com/VOLNUGS/status/1717177300695781506?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1717177300695781506|twgr^189d6aa3ca77c16d117735d70dad34769ba4c69e|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.barstoolsports.com%2Fblog%2F3490781%2Fa-tennessee-message-board-poster-knew-about-the-michigan-sign-stealing-operation-last-december-and-tried-to-tell-us-all) on an opponent.
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just keeps getting better
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just keeps getting better
The USCe stuff is, AFAIK, purely speculation and also it has been out there for a while.
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The USCe stuff is, AFAIK, purely speculation and also it has been out there for a while.
I agree, same with TCU and Clemson. Maybe it's true, but there really is nothing more than speculation to support that. It's akin to "insiders claim".
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This might be traced backed to Weiss's computer. If something comes out about people connected to the cheating, making bets,on underdog Michigan the last two seasons. Those canards just might regret using "bet". Vinny,Dutch and Fat Tony just might see if Jeem's kneecaps swing the other way
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Maybe a lot of things. What we KNOW for certain is pretty limited yet.
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pretty limited but, very damning
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If (big "if", I know) Michigan loses on Saturday and there aren't a slew of upsets to get them into the CFP discussion at 11-1, do you think they'll self-impose a bowl ban for the 2023 season?
My thoughts, Pro:
It is pretty clear that Michigan wants to delay the repercussions of their NCAA violations until after the 2023 season because they could be a NC contender this year. However, if that dies on the field on Saturday then what is left is not much. The Rose Bowl is a CFP semi-final this year so the tOSU/M loser will probably play the FSU/Louisville loser in the Orange Bowl.
Michigan's known violations are serious enough that a Bowl ban of at least one year seems pretty automatic so my thinking would be that getting it over with ASAP would be best for the future of the program.
My thoughts, Con:
Even with a loss on Saturday the Wolverines would still be a lock for a NY6 Bowl (likely Orange, see above). Michigan made CFP appearances the last two years but prior to that (and coincidentally their cheating scheme) they only had two NY6 level Bowl appearances in nine years so maybe NY6 is good enough to want to take it while you can?
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If Michigan knows internally that more shoes are going to drop, I'd self impose.
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I'd dodge the bowl if I didn't have video footage of the opponent's signals
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https://www.cleveland.com/sports/2023/11/jj-mccarthys-beef-with-michigans-sign-stealing-scandal-will-sound-funny-to-ohio-state-football-fans-jimmy-watkins.html?outputType=amp
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https://www.cleveland.com/sports/2023/11/jj-mccarthys-beef-with-michigans-sign-stealing-scandal-will-sound-funny-to-ohio-state-football-fans-jimmy-watkins.html?outputType=amp
A great example why it's a huge empty building on Tiedeman Rd.
If you are JJ McCarthy and have done everything you can to reach your dreams, it would be heartbreaking and frustrating. Even more difficult at that age, when your expectation is the people around you should be the example of doing things the right way. He doesn't blame anyone else. He simply says if you were in his shoes, you'd be frustrated and believe that it's been the hard work and dedication that lead to success he has experienced.
It's yet to be known if that is the truth, but bashing the kid in a very frustrating situation is weak. Saying he didn't deserve any success is weak
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https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/the-situational/2023/11/143036/the-situational-americas-team
Great writer. Love his stufff.
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https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/the-situational/2023/11/143036/the-situational-americas-team
Great writer. Love his stufff.
Read that one a little while ago.
Do any neutral or M fans see any cracks in Ramzy's logic vis-a-vis the Connor Stalions lookalike on the CMU sideline?
Ramzy's logic is that it absolutely was Connor Stalions and the proof is that if it wasn't, CMU would have quashed this story a long time ago by simply saying "Oh no, that is Larry." Thus, we "know" that it was Connor Stalions by virtue of the "dog that didn't bark" because if it wasn't, CMU would have spoken up.
As an aside, CMU could be in a boatload of trouble. Given the NCAA's track record would anyone be shocked if the NCAA gave CMU the death penalty for allowing a Michigan coach onto their sideline while giving Michigan some slap on the wrist such as a two year bowl ban, some scholarship reductions, and vacating only the wins where it can be demonstrably proven that Michigan used signals obtained through Stalions' scheme?
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A great example why it's a huge empty building on Tiedeman Rd.
If you are JJ McCarthy and have done everything you can to reach your dreams, it would be heartbreaking and frustrating. Even more difficult at that age, when your expectation is the people around you should be the example of doing things the right way. He doesn't blame anyone else. He simply says if you were in his shoes, you'd be frustrated and believe that it's been the hard work and dedication that lead to success he has experienced.
It's yet to be known if that is the truth, but bashing the kid in a very frustrating situation is weak. Saying he didn't deserve any success is weak
If JJ doesn't like it he should ask his coaches for a meeting and point out to them that the industrial-scale cheating scheme that they either engaged in or turned a blind eye to is troubling him.
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">BREAKING: Well, well, well. What do we have here? Would be interesting to look into ticket purchase history or security footage from certain games.....<br>Does <a href="https://twitter.com/ryandaytime?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ryandaytime</a> know about this? Does Ohio State have a Vast Network too? I think some already have the answers....… <a href="https://t.co/beEOe0AvIS">pic.twitter.com/beEOe0AvIS</a></p>— MichiganNation2 (@MichiganNation2) <a href="https://twitter.com/MichiganNation2/status/1727171570076979379?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 22, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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Hail to the victims vacuums
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If JJ doesn't like it he should ask his coaches for a meeting and point out to them that the industrial-scale cheating scheme that they either engaged in or turned a blind eye to is troubling him.
https://twitter.com/CKicks0/status/1727739173216440707/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1727739173216440707¤tTweetUser=CKicks0
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https://twitter.com/CKicks0/status/1727739173216440707/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1727739173216440707¤tTweetUser=CKicks0
I saw that and I don't disagree with what Klatt is saying but note that Klatt states that it is and advantage. The question is how big and, more specifically to the 2022 edition of The Game, was it decisive?
We could argue about that for 100 pages but neither of us could ever prove one way or the other. That is the point. That result will always be under a cloud of suspicion because we can't undo what Michigan did.
FWIW:
I think it probably did make a decisive difference in 2022 but not 2021.
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That’s is the most lame and irrelevant part of the conversation. “ how much did it impact the game”?
It’s like pulling over a drunk driver who was driving “ ok” and their defense being “ I was driving decently and didn’t hurt anyone “. And then having all of the parties in court be discussing that aspect of it as opposed to the actual law which was broken. And- finding out that the driver drove drunk consistently , every Saturday night for 2 years.
Or, using a golf analogy:
On the PGA tour, it is against the rules to use handheld laser devices to measure yardages.
Caddies ARE allowed to pre walk the course with the range finder, measure any yardage between any point and the flag, and even take notes and use them in actual tournament play.
so we find out that Scotty Scheffler, who has been one of the hottest golfers over the last three years, was using the handheld laser device during the tournaments.
But instead of having conversations about the integrity issue, and clear rule, breaking, everybody’s talking about whether or not, it made a difference in his victories. ( this is the EVERYBODY DOES IT part)
Fricken stupid.
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I agree, if the information was used once in any game, it's very damning, to me. Whether it made a difference in beating Purdue is not relevant, to me.
It's interesting how much of a penalty it is today to set aside wins.
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Yeah comparing it to drunk driving is almost remotely the same life impact. For some on here if you aren’t saying Harbaugh is a terrible person and Michigan is nothing but cheaters, you’re just plain stupid. Thank goodness for the majority of reasonable people that can discuss it without a difference of opinion equaling the other side is a bunch of idiots.
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Comparing breaking a rule where nobody is hurt to breaking a rule where
The claim is “ nobody was hurt”. ( it didn’t give an advantage bla bla) is a very appropriate comparison.
And that claim- that doing something clearly against the rules should be overlooked if nobody was hurt- is not a credible position. I doubt many here could disagree with that.
And nowhere in that post is Harbaugh even mentioned.
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And that claim- that doing something clearly against the rules should be overlooked if nobody was hurt- is not a credible position. I doubt many here could disagree with that.
Where is anyone claiming a rule should be overlooked because nobody was hurt?
the Position Klatt took is we should not minimize it, but the more you think it impacted the outcome, the less you know about football.
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Yeah comparing it to drunk driving is almost remotely the same life impact. For some on here if you aren’t saying Harbaugh is a terrible person and Michigan is nothing but cheaters, you’re just plain stupid. Thank goodness for the majority of reasonable people that can discuss it without a difference of opinion equaling the other side is a bunch of idiots.
We aren't comparing the offense, we are comparing the defense.
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Where is anyone claiming a rule should be overlooked because nobody was hurt?
the Position Klatt took is we should not minimize it, but the more you think it impacted the outcome, the less you know about football.
by even having the conversation about the degree of impact - it ignores the the breaking of rules. Who cares what the impact was?
But since it continues to be reintroduced into this thread, Klatt ( who I often agree with) is dead wrong. The more you played, coached or understand the modern day Xs and Os, the more you understand that the impact of knowing exactly what the opponent is going to run is a huge impact.
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We aren't comparing the offense, we are comparing the defense.
That I understand. And as we agreed, we will never know or potentially agree on how it truly impacted the outcome of games.
Secondly, Klatt was not defending it, he was stating he believes there’s a misunderstanding of how impactful it was to outcomes. That’s a completely different position than justifying why it’s ok that it happened, which he was not doing and I haven’t taken that stance either.
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Where is anyone claiming a rule should be overlooked because nobody was hurt?
the Position Klatt took is we should not minimize it, but the more you think it impacted the outcome, the less you know about football.
You lecture about what you think WE collectively think then drop that strictly opinion?WTF was Stalions literally running down the sidelines in one video shouting at the defense? Remember Stalions the guy who ran right by Booger who claimed he didn't no him,on the sidelines? During a game?SMDH why do coaches spend hours upon hours looking at film and scouting.Puhleeze just another nothing burger
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You lecture about what you think WE collectively think then drop that strictly opinion?WTF was Stalions literally running down the sidelines in one video shouting at the defense? Remember Stalions the guy who ran right by Booger who claimed he didn't no him,on the sidelines? During a game?SMDH why do coaches spend hours upon hours looking at film and scouting.Puhleeze just another nothing burger
No, I have lectured about the maturity of some of the ways people were posting around here stating this board was a better place than the level it reached.
I thought his take was interesting and one worthy to spur conversation. Again, it’s not a stance to justify the action nor is it one to claim it has no impact, otherwise why would they do it, but it is one to slow people down that keep claiming Michigan has only been good because of this action, while sending loads of players to the NFL. May not be a correct stance, but it’s a fairly reasonable one.
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Yes- anyone that says Michigan was only good because of Stalions actions- - I totally disagree with that. And I have been consistent about that.
I still like them tomorrow and also as a high potential CFP winner. The talent is obvious and deep. Especially along the two lines.
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by even having the conversation about the degree of impact - it ignores the the breaking of rules. Who cares what the impact was?
But since it continues to be reintroduced into this thread, Klatt ( who I often agree with) is dead wrong. The more you played, coached or understand the modern day Xs and Os, the more you understand that the impact of knowing exactly what the opponent is going to run is a huge impact.
I also think that the impact would likely vary a lot from team to team. Having the signs from the old Bo and especially Woody teams would be more-or-less irrelevant because even without the signs you pretty much know that they are going to run off tackle every down unless it is third-and-forever in which case they'll reluctantly pass.
I would bet that the modern playbook at Ohio State has easily twice as many plays as it did back in Woody's day.
Then there is the issue of HUNH vs. offenses that huddle and huddling also gives you the opportunity to trick the stealer simply by the QB overriding the sign in the huddle.
All that said, I agree with this:
by even having the conversation about the degree of impact - it ignores the the breaking of rules. Who cares what the impact was?
But since it continues to be reintroduced into this thread, Klatt ( who I often agree with) is dead wrong. The more you played, coached or understand the modern day Xs and Os, the more you understand that the impact of knowing exactly what the opponent is going to run is a huge impact.
This is what leads me to my point in response to the JJ McCarthy quote. Nobody will ever know how much impact it had but the fault for that is 100% with the Michigan Wolverines so it comes off as beyond tone-deaf to whine about it. If he doesn't like that his accomplishments are under a cloud of suspicion well, take it up with YOUR staff.
@SuperMario (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1596) , I think you are being a little thin-skinned. Twice in this thread you have jumped on people under the assumption that they were comparing the underlying wrongdoing when that interpretation was, IMHO, not at all warranted:
The first time was when one of the M posters was making the argument that Stalions' sending people to scout didn't violate NCAA rules so long as the people sent weren't Michigan staffers. I said that this was like hiring someone to kill your wife then using the defense that you didn't pull the trigger yourself. I thought it was inherently obvious that I was comparing the defense of "I didn't do it, I arranged for someone else to do it" which is the exact same in both cases rather than the wrongdoing of breaking an NCAA rule / murder.
The second time @Honestbuckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=37) compared an OVI defendant claiming that they were driving well so the wrongdoing didn't hurt anyone to the Michigan defense (that has been made by other Michigan posters even if not by you) of "it didn't have an impact." Same here, the underlying wrongdoing isn't being compared it is the defense that is being compared.
You are going to continue to run into this issue because defenses are, by definition, offered only when one is accused of some wrongdoing. Thus whenever a defense offered on Michigan's behalf is compared to any other defense it is going to be compared to a defense to some kind of wrongdoing and since breaking NCAA rules is pretty low on the list of dastardly offense, the underlying offense is almost always going to be morally worse.
Just as a preemptory thing, if some Michigan coach ends up having done this on the orders of Harbaugh and he offers as his defense that he was "just following orders", I'm going to compare that defense to the defenses offered at Nuremberg and I want to state in advance that I am NOT AT ALL comparing the underlying offense of breaking NCAA rules to the underlying offense of killing millions of people. If that situation comes to pass I am only comparing the DEFENSE, not the offense.
Finally, I want to peremptorily nominate the preceding paragraph for the greatest and most convoluted example of Godwins's Law to ever exist! Yay me!
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But instead of having conversations about the integrity issue, and clear rule, breaking, everybody’s talking about whether or not, it made a difference in his victories. ( this is the EVERYBODY DOES IT part)
Fricken stupid.
@medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) I understand and don’t disagree with almost your entire post, except one part. I’m not being thin skinned. I was referencing the above. This take is that any side conversation on the topic and not just the integrity and morality part is just stupid.
we guess what, some of us what to talk about more angles of it. Yes, if there’s anyone to hold accountable, it’s Michigan coaching. If JJ was handed a terrible situation, it’s the fault of those that broke the rules. I’m right there with you.
what’s irritating as a Michigan fan is trying to have calm and open conversations about some of the parts of the story outside of that and yet anyone not solely focused on the integrity side is stoopid? And those questioning that approach are thin skinned? C’mon man, that garbage is getting old.
any reasonable person knows integrity and morality was put second to winning. Anyone wanting to discuss other parts and impacts of the story aren’t deflectors nor siding with stoopid people.
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slow people down that keep claiming Michigan has only been good because of this action, while sending loads of players to the NFL. May not be a correct stance, but it’s a fairly reasonable one.
OK that was not the way that read so sure but last year I think it was an advantage.This year UofM wouldn't need it with Stoud and 3 starting O-Lineman gone along with Smith and their replacements(sans Smiths) while OK haven't showed consitency
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@medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) I understand and don’t disagree with almost your entire post, except one part. I’m not being thin skinned. I was referencing the above. This take is that any side conversation on the topic and not just the integrity and morality part is just stupid.
What I took as thin skinned was that, as I read it, you seemed to immediately assume that @Honestbuckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=37) and I were comparing Michigan's evident NCAA rule breaking to murder* and OVI when I thought it was pretty evident that we were comparing defenses not offenses.
*Or if you prefer, Redrum:
https://youtu.be/RrNOH5Uf6c0?si=Szg8IXevP8x3Ml2d
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What I took as thin skinned was that, as I read it, you seemed to immediately assume that @Honestbuckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=37) and I were comparing Michigan's evident NCAA rule breaking to murder* and OVI when I thought it was pretty evident that we were comparing defenses not offenses.
*Or if you prefer, Redrum:
https://youtu.be/RrNOH5Uf6c0?si=Szg8IXevP8x3Ml2d
Again, while it’s honorable you’re defending someone else, your stance and interaction has been one I have mostly agreed with and appreciated your approach because it’s willing to hear out other opinions. When someone continues to describe others as stoopid or suffering from memory loss, the receiver of the comments is not a thin-skinned person, it’s just someone that isn’t going to sit there and take that approach as acceptable.
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No, I have lectured about the maturity of some of the ways people were posting around here stating this board was a better place than the level it reached.
I thought his take was interesting and one worthy to spur conversation. Again, it’s not a stance to justify the action nor is it one to claim it has no impact, otherwise why would they do it, but it is one to slow people down that keep claiming Michigan has only been good because of this action, while sending loads of players to the NFL. May not be a correct stance, but it’s a fairly reasonable one.
Per the bold, I wouldn't exactly hang my hat on this one. Michigan can finish a season 6-6 and send 9 players to the NFL, several in the first three rounds. Purdue can finish 9-3 and be lucky to send 1 into the draft, and even luckier if it's first three rounds.
That's the fun of being a helmet team. You recruit studs whether you're actually good or not. Those studs get opportunities at the next level even if their teams aren't great, because, well, they're studs.
Michigan wasn't only good because of this action. They were already good. With the inequities in CFB, we're talking about the difference between a 10-2 Michigan team and a CFP Michigan team. Because about 9 of the teams on their schedule every year should never actually threaten the talent they can put out on the field.
The question is... Was this advantage the reason that they jumped from 10-2 to CFP?
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Nobody this it was a huge deal. But if it was no deal, Michigan wouldn't have spent all that money on it. I also care very little what former.players say versus former/current coaches. And I don't care what Joel Klatt says about anything. Hell, I only want his food recommendations just to know what not to order. He is beyond a shadow of a doubt the dumbest college football media member ever. And I say that knowing someone briefly stuck a mic in front of Emmitt Smith
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Per the bold, I wouldn't exactly hang my hat on this one. Michigan can finish a season 6-6 and send 9 players to the NFL, several in the first three rounds. Purdue can finish 9-3 and be lucky to send 1 into the draft, and even luckier if it's first three rounds.
That's the fun of being a helmet team. You recruit studs whether you're actually good or not. Those studs get opportunities at the next level even if their teams aren't great, because, well, they're studs.
Michigan wasn't only good because of this action. They were already good. With the inequities in CFB, we're talking about the difference between a 10-2 Michigan team and a CFP Michigan team. Because about 9 of the teams on their schedule every year should never actually threaten the talent they can put out on the field.
The question is... Was this advantage the reason that they jumped from 10-2 to CFP?
I’ve actually thought about this side of it quite a bit. While a team loaded with talent can certainly be mediocre and go 6-6, a majority of the time that’s not actually what happens.
when you look at draft results over the last decade and start looking a the teams with the most 1st and 2nd round picks, it’s OSU, LSU, Bama, Clemson and Georgia and their results speak for themselves.
Michigan recently has gotten into the mix. There’s certainly a helmet school element, but a loaded with talent class is a little different that a helmet school common class. Georgia has been great proof of that as well.
now that being said, most of the rest of your point is definitely spot on and something to consider. Yes Michigan would probably have had 10 wins considering their talent and their opposition. Was the difference from 10-2 to potential undefeated seasons just a couple more top tier talent players or was it the edge from signgate? Probably not anything people can settle on. The one argument to the forward would be this team winning it all.
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https://twitter.com/AaronMcMann/status/1728908311498784792
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A topical subject for Harbaugh after spending a night in the hospital with a coveted lineman with an NFL future.
NIL isn’t the answer. It has little structure and doesn’t align to revenue. It has also created a Wild West with different rules and interpretations conference to conference and state to state. The lack of coordination and communication on any of this from the NCAA tells me they might just be throwing in the towel on all of it. They just took a beating in Court
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Jim Harbaugh, not a fan of rules.
Other hot takes to come
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https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1444990-maurice-clarett-former-ohio-state-star-talks-about-being-paid-while-in-college
https://scarletandgame.com/2022/06/20/ohio-state-football-leads-nation-nil-compensation/
It's so funny to listen to OSU fans run around and scream about cheaters and integrity. Your school has been cheating to pay players for 2 decades. Clarett eventually came out and owned it and talked about it. Your university had the easiest transition to NIL because you already had the biggest organized system for paying players. Legitimate businesses putting OSU players on payroll for "summer" jobs, which were no show jobs and once they were connected to the owners/ "donors", the under the table money started flowing. Now it's just covered by NIL, but you'll chalk it up to Clarett lying or bitter or it's just internet conspiracy, even though I've heard it directly from one of the "donors" mouths, who was somewhat involved in Tressel's demise. So get over your moral code because you've supported "cheaters" for a long time. The hilarious part is anything floating around about OSU, even if it's said by a former player is conspiracy, but anything floating around about Stallions connection to Harbaugh is straight fact. Hypocrisy at it's finest.
Queue the "deflection" speech.
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Jim Harbaugh, not a fan of rules.
Other hot takes to come
Maybe you would like him more if he was harassing abuse victims.
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Maybe you would like him more if he was harassing abuse victims.
Please find me defending Mel Tucker. I said he had to go right away, even though it meant the season and the recruiting class was down the toilet, and even if the way he described it was 100% true
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Please find me defending Mel Tucker. I said he had to go right away, even though it meant the season and the recruiting class was down the toilet, and even if the way he described it was 100% true
Didn't see you defending him, but also did see you spending the same amount of time talking about as you have been UM either. Moral code is so big around here now, we should make sure we revisit this topic to ensure MSU is putting their proper moral code in place for the future.
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Didn't see you defending him, but also did see you spending the same amount of time talking about as you have been UM either. Moral code is so big around here now, we should make sure we revisit this topic to ensure MSU is putting their proper moral code in place for the future.
Michigan is Michigan and MSU is not.
Michigan garners more attention than probably any school in the country, so there will naturally be more scrutiny.
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Didn't see you defending him, but also did see you spending the same amount of time talking about as you have been UM either. Moral code is so big around here now, we should make sure we revisit this topic to ensure MSU is putting their proper moral code in place for the future.
Because I said he should be fired. My degree is more important to me than winning games. The school agreed, and I didn't see any other take. What more is there to talk about?
If Michigan fans/alums and administration did the same thing, this story would also already be over
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If Michigan fans/alums and administration did the same thing, this story would also already be over
Except the topics are so far beyond different and one of them directly involves the head coach and the other has zero show evidence of the head coach's involvement.
UM admin took the stance of due process based on the facts they had. So there's an argument to be made of what preferred, protect the image of the institution or ensure that due process is done when an individual is accused of something. I understand an argument on both sides, but I don't understand the argument that Michigan has no moral code because they didn't bail on Harbaugh already.
Say what you will, and maybe you have inside knowledge some of us don't because you've always been well connected in AA, but to me Harbaugh is the type of man I'd want to see leading my kids in the collegiate athletic world. Early on some football only minds questioned him for taking his guys to Italy, then France then South Africa. When he was at Stanford, he called out the Michigan program because so many of the athletes had either no majors listed or were in general studies. His stance was he saw how it was handled at Stanford and wanted the same for Michigan. His MO early on and no reason to believe that changed is that he wanted more for his players than just a game and success on the field, but was looking to help them achieve the most out of their life in the future as well.
Recently he has become vocal about revenue sharing with players. It's evident that with NIL implemented and the changes in the college football world cannot be avoided, so he seems to be vocal about pushing for the best interests of the players.
This is where I think it's odd so many are anti-Harbaugh, trying to claim he has no moral code, no integrity, no ethics and is a dirtbag. Based on what? This guy if anything, has been an oddity in the football world that cared more about long-term results than short-terms success on the field. It seemed to be one of the main reasons that UM football folks wanted him gone after another loss to OSU on the field. He didn't put enough priority on the on-the-field results.
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UM admin took the stance of due process based on the facts they had.
Maybe that's how you see it. For many of us, it appeared to be "circle the wagons, stall, and deflect in the hopes we can win a championship before the chickens come home to roost".
It's not that I actually think Harbaugh should have been fired, nor do I necessarily think he had knowledge of this. And while what occurred with Stalions has been pretty well proven, the B1G has not stated that Harbaugh had knowledge either, and they were clear that the suspension of the head coach was a punishment of the program and not of the individual.
It seems the UM faithful are trying to turn this into an attack on Harbaugh and their defense is that his involvement hasn't been proven. IMHO that's a deflection away from the fact that the conduct for which UM was punished is provable and not even really disputed by UM.
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Maybe that's how you see it. For many of us, it appeared to be "circle the wagons, stall, and deflect in the hopes we can win a championship before the chickens come home to roost".
It's not that I actually think Harbaugh should have been fired, nor do I necessarily think he had knowledge of this. And while what occurred with Stalions has been pretty well proven, the B1G has not stated that Harbaugh had knowledge either, and they were clear that the suspension of the head coach was a punishment of the program and not of the individual.
It seems the UM faithful are trying to turn this into an attack on Harbaugh and their defense is that his involvement hasn't been proven. IMHO that's a deflection away from the fact that the conduct for which UM was punished is provable and not even really disputed by UM.
While I agree with the first two paragraphs and definitely understand that perspective, I still don't know about the first paragraph. It can appear that way, but it also may not be correct, but it also could be as well.
The last paragraph - I don't think anyone is trying to turn it into that, I think it has been an overwhelming barrage attack on the program and Harbaugh. Just the tip of the iceberg has been seen here, people rattling off "cheaters" over and over and most of the people here are pretty reasonable people. Imagine what the average population is throwing at the UM faithful and University? To this day, we still don't know the details of the accusations. It seems likely Stallions was paying people to video the play calling. We don't know the extent of it being known with the rest of the staff. We don't know the extent of the impact of his method. We dont know the extent of Stallions method compared to the "rule following" methods that other programs were doing like sharing with other coaches from tv broadcasts. We do know that Michigan still won two big games without stallions, without harbaugh and now without excuses.
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The last paragraph - I don't think anyone is trying to turn it into that, I think it has been an overwhelming barrage attack on the program and Harbaugh. Just the tip of the iceberg has been seen here
We know Stalions was violating the rule, which provided sign decoding to the program, and the Big Ten determined that this in itself violated their sportsmanship guidelines.
Unless the argument is "what you have tons of evidence for didn't happen", what more due process do you need? Remember, the Big Ten did not punish Harbaugh. They punished the program based on something concrete they believed they had overwhelming evidence for, and for which (in the UM objection) UM did not ever deny occurred. And then UM dismissed their own request for a preliminary injunction--maybe that was just a PR move, but maybe it also suggests they know they can't fight the Big Ten on the merits.
The rest of the issues will be worked out by the NCAA, on the NCAA's glacial timeline.
The Big Ten has punished Michigan based on known facts that satisfy their due process, and the NCAA remains to play out and hasn't punished anyone.
We do know that Michigan still won two big games without stallions, without harbaugh and now without excuses.
And here's why I argued several weeks ago that we shouldn't let the outcome of one or two games color this, despite the fact that I knew both fanbases would take a win in the game as evidence that (if OSU won) the sign stealing was enormously advantageous or (if UM won) that this was all a nothingburger. And in this case we got both... The game was close compared to the last two years so the OSU fans say it proves sign stealing was advantageous, while Michigan fans say "hey look we still won" so it's a nothingburger.
And it's an argument that neither team can prove, because you can't know what would have happened this year had none of this come to light.
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I'd also point out that there are no due process protections in the Court of Public Opinion.
Which if you're talking about an "attack on the program and Harbaugh" occurring there, you might be right. But I'd argue as the neutral outsider, that Michigan's defense in the Court of Public Opinion has been rather lacking as well...
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- currently under investigation for lying about recruiting violations
- currently under investigation for the ONLY IN GAME CHEATING ever seen in CFB.
- Coach fired for cheating
- Coach recently fired for buying booze for ( and trying to hook up with) a 13 year old girl
- Coach recently resigned for racist social media
- player recently shut down in social media for anti-Semitic remarks
- player recently arrested for speeding and illegal weapon possession- and allowed to play that same week.
Yeah- just screams “I want my kid to go there” and “what a great man of character “
And you’re going to come here and go on about stuff you think happened when Tressel was coach? 13 years ago?
WTH. OSU lives rent free in peoples heads.
So if your go down that path at least get current. Go ahead and list the violations the current coach has been accused of, (let alone actually done):
I will be waiting. Hint: don’t waste your time since there is nothing.
Sorry- that is the definition of deflection.
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And here's why I argued several weeks ago that we shouldn't let the outcome of one or two games color this, despite the fact that I knew both fanbases would take a win in the game as evidence that (if OSU won) the sign stealing was enormously advantageous or (if UM won) that this was all a nothingburger. And in this case we got both... The game was close compared to the last two years so the OSU fans say it proves sign stealing was advantageous, while Michigan fans say "hey look we still won" so it's a nothingburger.
And it's an argument that neither team can prove, because you can't know what would have happened this year had none of this come to light.
You're take on this from day 1 has been really insightful and spot on. The part above is probably the most humorous part and particularly spot on about the response from both sides. Definitely worth laughing about because it's so true. Neither side will see eye to eye unless far more details come out and that may never happen with the NCAA. When there's $$$ involved, they have a tendency to help sweep some things under the rug made of money and that may happen here as well, even if there is further guilt. For now, tough to argue that there will be anything but the focus on conference championships, bowls and playoff games.
I'm still very interested if Petitti would have to hand a trophy to Harbaugh this weekend if Michigan wins. Will they be awkward? Will Harbaugh be the one that accepts it? Would either like it or both hate it?
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- currently under investigation for lying about recruiting violations
- currently under investigation for the ONLY IN GAME CHEATING ever seen in CFB.
- Coach fired for cheating
- Coach recently fired for buying booze for ( and trying to hook up with) a 13 year old girl
- Coach recently resigned for racist social media
- player recently shut down in social media for anti-Semitic remarks
- player recently arrested for speeding and illegal weapon possession- and allowed to play that same week.
Yeah- just screams “I want my kid to go there” and “what a great man of character “
And you’re going to come here and go on about stuff you think happened when Tressel was coach? 13 years ago?
WTH. OSU lives rent free in peoples heads.
So if your go down that path at least get current. Go ahead and list the violations the current coach has been accused of, (let alone actually done):
I will be waiting. Hint: don’t waste your time since there is nothing.
Sorry- that is the definition of deflection.
and you think OSU lives rent free lol.
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You're take on this from day 1 has been really insightful and spot on.
I appreciate that. As someone without a specific fan allegiance axe to grind, I'm just trying to look at it from a neutral perspective.
However, if you wanted to address the post, the stuff about "due process" was IMHO much more important than the respective fanbases spinning The Game's result re: sign stealing. As someone who has been pretty consistent talking about this desire for due process, I wanted to hear your thoughts about that. Do you think Michigan's entitlement to "due process" has actually been violated?
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Fired LB Coach Partridge says he was fired for violating the NCAA prohibition over talking about the investigation to Michigan employees or players. Not because he had knowledge of Conner Stalions advance scouting or destroying evidence.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="zxx" dir="ltr"><a href="https://t.co/ZFylBdaO8B">pic.twitter.com/ZFylBdaO8B</a></p>— Chris Partridge (@CoachCPartridge) <a href="https://twitter.com/CoachCPartridge/status/1729247265699824100?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 27, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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Fired LB Coach Partridge says he was fired for violating the NCAA prohibition over talking about the investigation to Michigan employees or players. Not because he had knowledge of Conner Stalions advance scouting or destroying evidence.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="zxx" dir="ltr"><a href="https://t.co/ZFylBdaO8B">pic.twitter.com/ZFylBdaO8B</a></p>— Chris Partridge (@CoachCPartridge) <a href="https://twitter.com/CoachCPartridge/status/1729247265699824100?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 27, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
He says it's a University prohibition on talking about the investigation, not an NCAA prohibition.
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Except the topics are so far beyond different and one of them directly involves the head coach and the other has zero show evidence of the head coach's involvement.
UM admin took the stance of due process based on the facts they had. So there's an argument to be made of what preferred, protect the image of the institution or ensure that due process is done when an individual is accused of something. I understand an argument on both sides, but I don't understand the argument that Michigan has no moral code because they didn't bail on Harbaugh already.
Say what you will, and maybe you have inside knowledge some of us don't because you've always been well connected in AA, but to me Harbaugh is the type of man I'd want to see leading my kids in the collegiate athletic world. Early on some football only minds questioned him for taking his guys to Italy, then France then South Africa. When he was at Stanford, he called out the Michigan program because so many of the athletes had either no majors listed or were in general studies. His stance was he saw how it was handled at Stanford and wanted the same for Michigan. His MO early on and no reason to believe that changed is that he wanted more for his players than just a game and success on the field, but was looking to help them achieve the most out of their life in the future as well.
Recently he has become vocal about revenue sharing with players. It's evident that with NIL implemented and the changes in the college football world cannot be avoided, so he seems to be vocal about pushing for the best interests of the players.
This is where I think it's odd so many are anti-Harbaugh, trying to claim he has no moral code, no integrity, no ethics and is a dirtbag. Based on what? This guy if anything, has been an oddity in the football world that cared more about long-term results than short-terms success on the field. It seemed to be one of the main reasons that UM football folks wanted him gone after another loss to OSU on the field. He didn't put enough priority on the on-the-field results.
You are the one who said I'd prefer Tucker. I said no, I never defended him. And now you say, well, it's different. If they are different, then why did you bring up that I would prefer Tuckers behavior? Which is both untrue, and by your own admission, different. That seems like a very odd attack to make, but have at it. Even by straw man arguments, that is an all time weak one
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Coach Harbaugh contract extension and end to NCAA investigation possible this week.
https://gbmwolverine.com/2023/11/28/michigan-football-positive-news-jim-harbaugh-contract-latest-ncaa-investigation/ (https://gbmwolverine.com/2023/11/28/michigan-football-positive-news-jim-harbaugh-contract-latest-ncaa-investigation/)
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(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia1.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2FN1ZAtLMnqX1U4%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=97c9adf7bdc25a7f43ec368088bd6d790b0598fde4e9acc57b15e65afc28c61d&ipo=images) (https://media1.giphy.com/media/N1ZAtLMnqX1U4/giphy.gif)
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You are the one who said I'd prefer Tucker. I said no, I never defended him. And now you say, well, it's different. If they are different, then why did you bring up that I would prefer Tuckers behavior? Which is both untrue, and by your own admission, different. That seems like a very odd attack to make, but have at it. Even by straw man arguments, that is an all time weak one
When you continue to knock Michigan, not just Harbaugh, but the university and its fans, commenting consistently on morality and integrity, then why wouldn’t you expect someone to question the same about your own, using an example of someone who crossed a far more disgusting morality line and he was employed by your university and the figurehead of your football program.
Harbaugh is being punished on behalf of the the university right? That’s how they connect the dots isn’t it?
and yes, one of the staff members on Michigan crossing the line for scouting opponents is different than Jim Harbaugh pleasuring himself on the phone with a victim of sexual abuse. So yeah, let’s measure ethics of the figurehead of our college football programs. Michigan had an assistant apparently that is being accused of some disgusting morality issues. Feel free to question him and the hiring of that person. It should be questioned, but while you’re taking so much time to knock Michigan, maybe spend as much time question how your program is hiring people willing to pleasure themselves with abuse victims as the head of your program.
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Again, YOUR words were that I would prefer a coach who pleasured himself.
With absolutely zero proof of that. And actually all proof to the exact opposite.
Straw man argument
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MSU did the right thing in firing Tucker.
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Again, YOUR words were that I would prefer a coach who pleasured himself.
With absolutely zero proof of that. And actually all proof to the exact opposite.
Straw man argument
And you won’t address the rest of it.
next time I’ll more clearly outline the implied meaning behind my statement so you can ignore and avoid it further while continuing to bash Michigan. Proceed…
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Maybe you would like him more if he was harassing abuse victims.
This was your full post
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This was your full post
And I expanded on it. The initial post was lacking a ton of context. I’ll certainly admit it. I further expanded on what the point of it was.
first post: completely my end for lacking the point
the rest of the posts after: you simply want to ignore
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MSU fired him. Yes, they clearly did a bad job vetting that hire. I don't know what else you want them to do though. Hire him back to fire him a second time?
It's not a morality thing with Harbaugh. It's NCAA rules. But he's also been suspended for half of the games this season, for two investigations that are likely going to result is further discipline for each. At some point as a university, you have to decide where your priorities lie. Michigan is well within their rights to keep a winning coach through multiple suspensions. Auburn hired Hugh Freeze, because they decided winning trumps all. That's fine. That's their choice. But then you also have to be willing to accept how that plays in the court of public opinion. Pointing at other schools, particularly when the examples are coaches that were fired, as a defense as to why your coach is still employed doesn't make much sense to me.
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It's NCAA rules. But he's also been suspended for half of the games this season, for two investigations
And the first was not suspended by the NCAA, but self-imposed by Michigan.. For what, communicating with people during a silent period during a once in a life time pandemic? I get it, Michigan fans claiming it's only because he bought a recruit a burger. Harbaugh refused to cooperate with NCAA so it's likely more than a single burger buy, but we also don't know. We really don't.
going to result is further discipline for each.
based on what? Again, you're making an assumption and none of us simply know all the facts and details. Could that happen? Sure could, but to say it's going to doesn't have factual base behind it.
At some point as a university, you have to decide where your priorities lie. Michigan is well within their rights to keep a winning coach through multiple suspensions.
And what if their priority is to not bail on a coach, who's stories in the public aren't quite accurate? What if he truly had no idea about stallions and neither did the rest of the coaching staff and Harbaugh seriously just bought a kid and his family lunch and the backlash was greater because he told the NCAA to go fly a kite, it was a burger?
So while pointing at other schools and their situations may not make sense, neither does scathing a program for their decisions, when the facts are far from known as they are known at their level. Is that reasonable?
If all comes out and Harbaugh did far more during the quiet period and there was far more involvement than just scallions, I fully understand your position much more, but we simply don't have enough facts one way or another. Thats why as a Michigan guy, it's gets a little old hearing the criticism of their program and how they handle it over and over. Not taking a shot at you, just explaining my perspective.
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https://twitter.com/DillonZulkowski/status/1729518770144624797
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https://twitter.com/DillonZulkowski/status/1729518770144624797
😂😂😂
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Pointing at other schools, particularly when the examples are coaches that were fired, as a defense as to why your coach is still employed doesn't make much sense to me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Classic misdirection.
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MSU did the right thing in firing Tucker.
yeah, they did right thing in firing Tucker because he's truly a dogshit coach. Not because he was whacking off over the phone.
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MSU fired him. Yes, they clearly did a bad job vetting that hire. I don't know what else you want them to do though. Hire him back to fire him a second time?
It's not a morality thing with Harbaugh. It's NCAA rules. But he's also been suspended for half of the games this season, for two investigations that are likely going to result is further discipline for each. At some point as a university, you have to decide where your priorities lie. Michigan is well within their rights to keep a winning coach through multiple suspensions. Auburn hired Hugh Freeze, because they decided winning trumps all. That's fine. That's their choice. But then you also have to be willing to accept how that plays in the court of public opinion. Pointing at other schools, particularly when the examples are coaches that were fired, as a defense as to why your coach is still employed doesn't make much sense to me.
winner winner chicken dinner.
this thing is about winning games. always has been, always will be.
Jeem keeps winning the B1G and making playoff runs, they'll tolerate a lot.
winning cures all ills and it's a strong cologne that wipes away almost all stench.
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Mike Hart interviewing for the Indiana job. Hopefully he's smart enough not to take that job.
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it might pay enough to cover the bills
I'd take that job if offered
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Yeah, if a P5 school is willing to offer you a head coaching job with no coordinating experience, let alone head coaching, you kind of have to take that job. Assuming the goal is to be a head coach eventually.
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or if the goal is simply to make a shitload of $$$
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Yeah, if a P5 school is willing to offer you a head coaching job with no coordinating experience, let alone head coaching, you kind of have to take that job. Assuming the goal is to be a head coach eventually.
Idk if he’d be better off going to group of 5 and building a winner and waiting for a better job opening a la Fickell.
Indiana is just an impossible job. Especially with USC, UCLA, Washington, and Oregon coming into the B1G. Michigan has hit peak form and should continue to be really good so long as Jeem is there. Ohio State is a juggernaut. Penn State is a top 10-15 team almost annually right now. Michigan State just hired a really good coach (I think). Wisconsin could be really good very soon if Fickell is legit.
Indiana is almost guaranteed to be a place where it’s almost impossible to win.
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yeah, they did right thing in firing Tucker because he's truly a dogshit coach. Not because he was whacking off over the phone.
I was trying to say it without saying it.
Tucker gave MSU the "out" they needed.
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MSU did right thing in firing Tucker because he's truly a dogshit coach. Not because he was whacking off over the phone.
That would have been a great way to lead off SPORTSCENTER at the top of the hour
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I appreciate that. As someone without a specific fan allegiance axe to grind, I'm just trying to look at it from a neutral perspective.
However, if you wanted to address the post, the stuff about "due process" was IMHO much more important than the respective fanbases spinning The Game's result re: sign stealing. As someone who has been pretty consistent talking about this desire for due process, I wanted to hear your thoughts about that. Do you think Michigan's entitlement to "due process" has actually been violated?
@betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19)
Sorry it took me a little time to get back to this because I wanted to think through your question. It's honestly a great question to make someone take a step back and truly consider the circumstances. I think it's fair to say that at this point, it has not been violated. Harbaugh's first 3 games suspended were self-imposed by the University, so that due process cannot be questioned at all. The NCAA is still looking into it, so I'm not sure how anyone can complain about how it's being handled. Now, the circumstances can definitely be criticized about burgergate and communication to recruits during silent period, but the process of punishment cannot be argued imo.
The second three games is tough for Harbaugh and team from a public opinion standpoint, but you cannot complain about the NCAA violating due process. I also think if UM or fans have a complaint about the B1G, it's not necessarily due process, but about punishing the head coach for something he may not have been involved in. Yes, there is a responsibility with his position and role, but there are circumstances that punishing the head coach for other's actions is a little odd, but again, not necessarily a process issue.
I think it's fair to say that the B1G saw enough evidence that Stallions had crossed the line of a written rule. No matter what anyone thinks about the relevance of the 1994 rule, it was still a rule that needed to be followed and seemingly was not. It was a rule that seemingly was broken and could have impact on games played, so B1G saw it relevant to react quickly and seemingly had enough proof that at least one person on staff violated that rule, therefore immediate action had to be taken to punish the University, which meant Harbaugh as the figurehead.
So the lengthy, probably too verbose response, is that due process was not violated.
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So the lengthy, probably too verbose response, is that due process was not violated.
Quit cursing in Latin you Bastage
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Bruce Feldman saying he'd be surprised if Jeem was the HC next year...I've been thinking Jeem was 50/50 off to the NFL since before the scandal broke and once it did I started thinking 99.9% he off to the No Fun Leauge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZelGD0XLck
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@betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19)
Sorry it took me a little time to get back to this because I wanted to think through your question. It's honestly a great question to make someone take a step back and truly consider the circumstances. I think it's fair to say that at this point, it has not been violated. Harbaugh's first 3 games suspended were self-imposed by the University, so that due process cannot be questioned at all. The NCAA is still looking into it, so I'm not sure how anyone can complain about how it's being handled. Now, the circumstances can definitely be criticized about burgergate and communication to recruits during silent period, but the process of punishment cannot be argued imo.
The second three games is tough for Harbaugh and team from a public opinion standpoint, but you cannot complain about the NCAA violating due process. I also think if UM or fans have a complaint about the B1G, it's not necessarily due process, but about punishing the head coach for something he may not have been involved in. Yes, there is a responsibility with his position and role, but there are circumstances that punishing the head coach for other's actions is a little odd, but again, not necessarily a process issue.
I think it's fair to say that the B1G saw enough evidence that Stallions had crossed the line of a written rule. No matter what anyone thinks about the relevance of the 1994 rule, it was still a rule that needed to be followed and seemingly was not. It was a rule that seemingly was broken and could have impact on games played, so B1G saw it relevant to react quickly and seemingly had enough proof that at least one person on staff violated that rule, therefore immediate action had to be taken to punish the University, which meant Harbaugh as the figurehead.
So the lengthy, probably too verbose response, is that due process was not violated.
Thanks.
And I agree with the optics / public opinion. Even though the B1G tried to be clear they were punishing the program in general and not Harbaugh individually, it seems that most of the public opinion (from M supporters, M detractors, and the general public) was that Harbaugh was being punished.
I'm not sure whether that result was a feature or a bug for Petitti, either, to be honest.
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https://twitter.com/i/status/1731364733251444866
Michigan Fans finding out the draw
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(https://i.imgur.com/8NVozlj.png)
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Some of us think Michigan’s season became a total success when they beat the Buckeyes. FSU would have been easier on paper but I’m fine with Michigan playing the SEC champion in the Rose Bowl. Its all pure gravy at this point.
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Now I've been told: "Breakthroughs in the last couple days. Things trending very positively."<br>Of course, we have heard that before. We know President Ono and the Regents want it done, Jim Stapleton doesn't, and the athletic department has dragged its feet. We'll see what happens</p>— John U. Bacon (@Johnubacon) <a href="https://twitter.com/Johnubacon/status/1732390272795808064?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 6, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Jim Stapleton is a former Regent of Eastern Michigan University. He has moved on to bigger and better things with the NCAA Infraction committee. The last time Michigan was looking for a football coach he lobbied Michigan to hire Ron English.
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Jim Stapleton is a former Regent of Eastern Michigan University. He has moved on to bigger and better things with the NCAA Infraction committee. The last time Michigan was looking for a football coach he lobbied Michigan to hire Ron English.
I've heard a lot of rumblings this year that he was the head of the issues behind the scenes for the RichRod hire. When a lot of people were questioning if it was Lloyd Carr, the reality was it was Stapleton because his guy wasn't hired.
It has sounded like Stapleton could have been the driving force behind some of the downfall of UM football after Lloyd stepped down.
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https://twitter.com/RJ_cfb/status/1732794741685731386?s=20
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https://twitter.com/RJ_cfb/status/1732794741685731386?s=20
This seems intentionally leaked. I actually think this being public isn't a good sign when the contract extension isn't finalized. It puts all the pressure on Harbaugh and it could be leaked so UM could take the stance that "they tried." If Harbaugh was 100% in and didn't want to entertain NFL offers, the extension would be in writing and signed.
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It’s a smart play. Stabilizing the program and environment and sending a very positive signal as we approach recruiting/ signing time.
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But a lie none the less - he's rather accomplished at it.Many of the portaled kids may have cooled their heels wondering how things may unfold. So now he may have to kiss some fanny at least until he bolts - ahead of the possey ;D
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Michigan AD Warde Manuel, UM's leaders and lawyers, are finalizing Harbaugh's contract: 5 years, 55 million, which will make him the highest paid coach in the Big Ten, as promised weeks ago. <br>The ball is now in Harbaugh's court.</p>— John U. Bacon (@Johnubacon) <a href="https://twitter.com/Johnubacon/status/1732812958600749251?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 7, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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Better sign it before St Nick takes him behind the woodshed 😈
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can't remember a player with so much talent and promise ever having such a down year when taking into account expectations based on 'crootin' profile and previous season success then Donovan Edwards this year. Wonder if he comes back in '24.
But man if he decided to comeback with JJ, Michigan would have a chance to be really good again in 2024. Doubt either one comes back, but ya never know.
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https://twitter.com/CFBRep/status/1739122341735813419?t=5KpzPJcrTiZ6ARs92sSdbA&s=19
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There’s a school out there that is in deep shit with the NCAA and it isn’t Michigan.
https://gbmwolverine.com/posts/michigan-football-was-reportedly-a-target-in-catapult-film-breach-01hjwbgmehe5 (https://gbmwolverine.com/posts/michigan-football-was-reportedly-a-target-in-catapult-film-breach-01hjwbgmehe5)
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There’s a school out there that is in deep shit with the NCAA and it isn’t Michigan.
https://gbmwolverine.com/posts/michigan-football-was-reportedly-a-target-in-catapult-film-breach-01hjwbgmehe5 (https://gbmwolverine.com/posts/michigan-football-was-reportedly-a-target-in-catapult-film-breach-01hjwbgmehe5)
there were rumors on Michigan boards that someone at Ohio State hacked into Michigan's computers to view practice film.
would be hilarious and fitting if that turns out to be the case after all the sh!t OSU slappies have slung the past couple months.
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You are obviously whistling past a grave yard throwing shit against the wall hoping some one more daft than the Michigan faithful believe it. The Ann Arbor shit show last season the 3 tunnel fights over 7 home games,field brawl then massive head wound Harbaugh coming out and blaming everyone else but the obvious host is an indictment.Then conveniently sweeping under the rug a felony gun charge for 2 months by the team captain of all people.Since there was a player shooting up Virginia's team this wasn't just an oopsie. This poltroon has the nerve to lecture - "what a web we weave when we choose to deceive" I'd laugh if it all wasn't so sick.....and true
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there were rumors on Michigan boards that someone at Ohio State hacked into Michigan's computers to view practice film.
would be hilarious and fitting if that turns out to be the case after all the sh!t OSU slappies have slung the past couple months.
More likely some Michigan player used password as his password and someone guessed it :57:
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Stay in your lane buster you're talking about the all time winning program in CFB. And aslo the apex in Academia amongst the college elite.Just ask 2 time Big Ten All Scholastic DL Rashad Gary
Borrowed this:
I want to make one thing clear - this is not an attack on Rashan Gary’s intelligence. But even if it were, apparently he wouldn’t be able to read it. They say scoring a 10 on the Wonderlic Test is a sign that you are literate. Well, the Michigan All-Big Ten defensive linemen and 1st round pick scored a 9.That was the lowest,Not a good look for the General Studies major from “The Harvard of the Midwest”
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there were rumors on Michigan boards that someone at Ohio State hacked into Michigan's computers to view practice film.
would be hilarious and fitting if that turns out to be the case after all the sh!t OSU slappies have slung the past couple months.
There were rumors of Michigan doing that on OSU message boards. I'm sure there are rumors of every team in the country doing it. Waiting to see if it's something real or not, doesn't appear to be.
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Interesting how the school in question is being kept under wraps by the NCAA, as it should be.
And we’re not hearing anything from Pettiti either.
Catapult has been around since the mid 2000s. If it’s the Buckeyes doing the hacking, it could explain their win streak since then.
Buckeyez: Hackerz and Cheaterz? Stay tuned.
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Interesting how the school in question is being kept under wraps by the NCAA, as it should be.
And we’re not hearing anything from Pettiti either.
Catapult has been around since the mid 2000s. If it’s the Buckeyes doing the hacking, it could explain their win streak since then.
Buckeyez: Hackerz and Cheaterz? Stay tuned.
Your wet dream. Your team was caught cheating, and the punishment is yet to come. Nice deflection, though
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Top Men at the NCAA are investigating it, so Ohio State is probably safe
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Has Jimmy signed the new contract yet??
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Interesting how the school in question is being kept under wraps by the NCAA, as it should be.
And we’re not hearing anything from Pettiti either.
Catapult has been around since the mid 2000s. If it’s the Buckeyes doing the hacking, it could explain their win streak since then.
Buckeyez: Hackerz and Cheaterz? Stay tuned.
Interesting how 3 coaches have been fired and the HC suspended twice with in one year but there is nothing egregious at work
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExM2Y1Yno3ZXRwOTY2YmIzb3A2eTM5MnhyYTQ1cmF3ZWJraW1teGxmdiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/l3fQf1OEAq0iri9RC/giphy.gif)
It took what 2 yrs to put the wraps on Tennessee? Stay tuned indeed
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Not yet. Rumor is $125 million over 10 years. It would be just like him to wait until the end of Michigan’s season to avoid distraction. And if he does go to the NFL I wouldn’t blame him.
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Has Jimmy signed the new contract yet??
Win or lose Jimmy is gonna leave a trail of smoke out of Town like the road runner use to.All ahead of the Posse of course
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It would be just like him to wait until the end of Michigan’s season to avoid distraction.
Um, what? He has plenty of reasons to stay, and to leave, but he has been a walking distraction, for better or worse since Day 1
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Nothing like coach prime
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Interesting how 3 coaches have been fired and the HC suspended twice with in one year but there is nothing egregious at work
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It took what 2 yrs to put the wraps on Tennessee? Stay tuned indeed
Petitti don’t need the NCAA to take action to save sportsmanship and player safety.
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What argument are you even attempting to create? Really,sportsmanship,Michigan? They should have been hammered for the fights and hiding a felony gun charge.Last season
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Jeem has hired an agent, Don Yee, same agent that reps Tom Brady and Sean Payton.
Jeem has never had an agent before, he already has a massive contract offer from Michigan. No need to hire an NFL agent if you're just going to stay put and sign the FAT contract that Michigan has already offered you.
Jeem gone.
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no idea how legit this twitter account is, 19k followers and says it's been featured in 247Sports and Barstool...if any of this is even remotely true...ruh roh Ohio State...
https://twitter.com/bluebloodsbias/status/1741134763862409707?s=20
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ruh roh Ohio State...
3 game suspension?
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ruh roh Ohio State...
3 game suspension?
or they'll just order Ryan Day stop dying his beard and hair with shoe polish. seems like a better punishment if you ask me.
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no idea how legit this twitter account is, 19k followers and says it's been featured in 247Sports and Barstool...if any of this is even remotely true...ruh roh Ohio State...
https://twitter.com/bluebloodsbias/status/1741134763862409707?s=20
Omg. I can’t even believe you posted that garbage over here. go focus on your teams playoff game instead of your desperate wet dreams of trying to deflect to Ohio State when you guys got busted, plain ass cheating
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Jeem gone.
I said it before the posse has their marching orders and will be breaking camp,and Booger is at least smart enough to beat a hasty retreat and get out of Dodge
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not sure how legit they are, but there have been some rumors floating around that JJ McCarthy may be returning for his SR year. If he does that, think there's a decent shot Donovan Edwards returns as well- who is his BFF and has had a major down year compared to his Soph year where he was looking like a future 1st rd pick....
IF Michigan gets both those guys back, have to think they'll be right back in B1GCCG/CFP contention in 2024.
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this is why NCAA has had a hard on for Jeem...he's been openly talking about this and players unionizing for years...
https://twitter.com/ReeseClarett13/status/1743719056505504231?s=20
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The players unionizing would actually make things WAY easier for the NCAA. It needs to happen yesterday
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Michigan quarterback Davis Warren threw a bit of shade at Iowa ahead of the CFP National Championship.
During the week of preparation, Warren has been leading the scout team for the Wolverines. That means trying to replicate the Husky offense and wide-open engineered by Michael Penix Jr.
On Saturday, Warren was asked about that work as the scout-team QB and trying to replicate Washington’s attack. He admitted it has been a fun week, especially pointing out “It’s more than when we play Iowa being the scout team quarterback.”
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elite troll job...well done Connor.
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