2023 Michigan Season Thread

[SuperMario]

https://twitter.com/AaronMcMann/status/1728908311498784792

[HailHailMSP]

A topical subject for Harbaugh after spending a night in the hospital with a coveted lineman with an NFL future. 

NIL isn’t the answer. It has little structure and doesn’t align to revenue. It has also created a Wild West with different rules and interpretations conference to conference and state to state. The lack of coordination and communication on any of this from the NCAA tells me they might just be throwing in the towel on all of it. They just took a beating in Court 

[ELA]

Jim Harbaugh, not a fan of rules.

Other hot takes to come

[SuperMario]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1444990-maurice-clarett-former-ohio-state-star-talks-about-being-paid-while-in-college 

https://scarletandgame.com/2022/06/20/ohio-state-football-leads-nation-nil-compensation/ 

It's so funny to listen to OSU fans run around and scream about cheaters and integrity. Your school has been cheating to pay players for 2 decades. Clarett eventually came out and owned it and talked about it. Your university had the easiest transition to NIL because you already had the biggest organized system for paying players. Legitimate businesses putting OSU players on payroll for "summer" jobs, which were no show jobs and once they were connected to the owners/ "donors", the under the table money started flowing. Now it's just covered by NIL, but you'll chalk it up to Clarett lying or bitter or it's just internet conspiracy, even though I've heard it directly from one of the "donors" mouths, who was somewhat involved in Tressel's demise. So get over your moral code because you've supported "cheaters" for a long time. The hilarious part is anything floating around about OSU, even if it's said by a former player is conspiracy, but anything floating around about Stallions connection to Harbaugh is straight fact.  Hypocrisy at it's finest.  

Queue the "deflection" speech.

[SuperMario]

Jim Harbaugh, not a fan of rules.

Other hot takes to come

Maybe you would like him more if he was harassing abuse victims. 

[ELA]

Maybe you would like him more if he was harassing abuse victims.

Please find me defending Mel Tucker.  I said he had to go right away, even though it meant the season and the recruiting class was down the toilet, and even if the way he described it was 100% true

[SuperMario]

Please find me defending Mel Tucker.  I said he had to go right away, even though it meant the season and the recruiting class was down the toilet, and even if the way he described it was 100% true

Didn't see you defending him, but also did see you spending the same amount of time talking about as you have been UM either.  Moral code is so big around here now, we should make sure we revisit this topic to ensure MSU is putting their proper moral code in place for the future. 

[847badgerfan]

Didn't see you defending him, but also did see you spending the same amount of time talking about as you have been UM either.  Moral code is so big around here now, we should make sure we revisit this topic to ensure MSU is putting their proper moral code in place for the future.

Michigan is Michigan and MSU is not.

Michigan garners more attention than probably any school in the country, so there will naturally be more scrutiny. 

[ELA]

Didn't see you defending him, but also did see you spending the same amount of time talking about as you have been UM either.  Moral code is so big around here now, we should make sure we revisit this topic to ensure MSU is putting their proper moral code in place for the future.

Because I said he should be fired.  My degree is more important to me than winning games.  The school agreed, and I didn't see any other take.  What more is there to talk about?
If Michigan fans/alums and administration did the same thing, this story would also already be over

[SuperMario]

If Michigan fans/alums and administration did the same thing, this story would also already be over

Except the topics are so far beyond different and one of them directly involves the head coach and the other has zero show evidence of the head coach's involvement. 

UM admin took the stance of due process based on the facts they had. So there's an argument to be made of what preferred, protect the image of the institution or ensure that due process is done when an individual is accused of something. I understand an argument on both sides, but I don't understand the argument that Michigan has no moral code because they didn't bail on Harbaugh already.

Say what you will, and maybe you have inside knowledge some of us don't because you've always been well connected in AA, but to me Harbaugh is the type of man I'd want to see leading my kids in the collegiate athletic world. Early on some football only minds questioned him for taking his guys to Italy, then France then South Africa. When he was at Stanford, he called out the Michigan program because so many of the athletes had either no majors listed or were in general studies. His stance was he saw how it was handled at Stanford and wanted the same for Michigan. His MO early on and no reason to believe that changed is that he wanted more for his players than just a game and success on the field, but was looking to help them achieve the most out of their life in the future as well. 

Recently he has become vocal about revenue sharing with players. It's evident that with NIL implemented and the changes in the college football world cannot be avoided, so he seems to be vocal about pushing for the best interests of the players. 

This is where I think it's odd so many are anti-Harbaugh, trying to claim he has no moral code, no integrity, no ethics and is a dirtbag. Based on what? This guy if anything, has been an oddity in the football world that cared more about long-term results than short-terms success on the field. It seemed to be one of the main reasons that UM football folks wanted him gone after another loss to OSU on the field. He didn't put enough priority on the on-the-field results.

[betarhoalphadelta]

UM admin took the stance of due process based on the facts they had.

Maybe that's how you see it. For many of us, it appeared to be "circle the wagons, stall, and deflect in the hopes we can win a championship before the chickens come home to roost". 

It's not that I actually think Harbaugh should have been fired, nor do I necessarily think he had knowledge of this. And while what occurred with Stalions has been pretty well proven, the B1G has not stated that Harbaugh had knowledge either, and they were clear that the suspension of the head coach was a punishment of the program and not of the individual. 

It seems the UM faithful are trying to turn this into an attack on Harbaugh and their defense is that his involvement hasn't been proven. IMHO that's a deflection away from the fact that the conduct for which UM was punished is provable and not even really disputed by UM. 

[SuperMario]

Maybe that's how you see it. For many of us, it appeared to be "circle the wagons, stall, and deflect in the hopes we can win a championship before the chickens come home to roost".

It's not that I actually think Harbaugh should have been fired, nor do I necessarily think he had knowledge of this. And while what occurred with Stalions has been pretty well proven, the B1G has not stated that Harbaugh had knowledge either, and they were clear that the suspension of the head coach was a punishment of the program and not of the individual.

It seems the UM faithful are trying to turn this into an attack on Harbaugh and their defense is that his involvement hasn't been proven. IMHO that's a deflection away from the fact that the conduct for which UM was punished is provable and not even really disputed by UM.

While I agree with the first two paragraphs and definitely understand that perspective, I still don't know about the first paragraph. It can appear that way, but it also may not be correct, but it also could be as well.

The last paragraph - I don't think anyone is trying to turn it into that, I think it has been an overwhelming barrage attack on the program and Harbaugh. Just the tip of the iceberg has been seen here, people rattling off "cheaters" over and over and most of the people here are pretty reasonable people. Imagine what the average population is throwing at the UM faithful and University? To this day, we still don't know the details of the accusations. It seems likely Stallions was paying people to video the play calling. We don't know the extent of it being known with the rest of the staff. We don't know the extent of the impact of his method. We dont know the extent of Stallions method compared to the "rule following" methods that other programs were doing like sharing with other coaches from tv broadcasts.  We do know that Michigan still won two big games without stallions, without harbaugh and now without excuses. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

The last paragraph - I don't think anyone is trying to turn it into that, I think it has been an overwhelming barrage attack on the program and Harbaugh. Just the tip of the iceberg has been seen here

We know Stalions was violating the rule, which provided sign decoding to the program, and the Big Ten determined that this in itself violated their sportsmanship guidelines. 

Unless the argument is "what you have tons of evidence for didn't happen", what more due process do you need? Remember, the Big Ten did not punish Harbaugh. They punished the program based on something concrete they believed they had overwhelming evidence for, and for which (in the UM objection) UM did not ever deny occurred. And then UM dismissed their own request for a preliminary injunction--maybe that was just a PR move, but maybe it also suggests they know they can't fight the Big Ten on the merits. 

The rest of the issues will be worked out by the NCAA, on the NCAA's glacial timeline. 

The Big Ten has punished Michigan based on known facts that satisfy their due process, and the NCAA remains to play out and hasn't punished anyone. 

We do know that Michigan still won two big games without stallions, without harbaugh and now without excuses.

And here's why I argued several weeks ago that we shouldn't let the outcome of one or two games color this, despite the fact that I knew both fanbases would take a win in the game as evidence that (if OSU won) the sign stealing was enormously advantageous or (if UM won) that this was all a nothingburger. And in this case we got both... The game was close compared to the last two years so the OSU fans say it proves sign stealing was advantageous, while Michigan fans say "hey look we still won" so it's a nothingburger. 

And it's an argument that neither team can prove, because you can't know what would have happened this year had none of this come to light. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I'd also point out that there are no due process protections in the Court of Public Opinion. 

Which if you're talking about an "attack on the program and Harbaugh" occurring there, you might be right. But I'd argue as the neutral outsider, that Michigan's defense in the Court of Public Opinion has been rather lacking as well...