I didn’t want to discuss this topic any more, but my business partner brought up an interesting point. For reference, he is an OSU grad and OSU fan.
While it’s likely Michigan crossed the line and violated rules, how do we know the rest of the staff and players knew how Stalions was figuring out the sign stealing? The sign stealing is legal, so the staff and Harbaugh wouldn’t immediately say that’s wrong or breaking the rules. I think we can all agree that happens almost everywhere.
So what if Stalions pitch was that because of his training, he figured out a way to know the plays coming from video? He takes it to Harbaugh and staff and says he gathers video and has a third party that helps him produce and analyze the video and sometimes there will be additional expresses they have to analyze the video and they have technical expenses to make it happen. Jim asks, you’re doing all this by video? And Stalions confirms. Harbaugh and staff think this guy is a guru and stumbled upon a way for an edge, taking signs by video.
My partner brought this up because we rely on third parties for a lot of areas of our business, some of them vital. We vet them out upfront, go over their process, but also take their word how some of it is being done is exactly what they say. Running a business is overwhelming and our day to day is putting trust in others that they are doing things far from lines being crossed, including our own staff. Yet there isn’t time to babysit every person’s every action. When some of our staff seems incredibly competent and produce at a high level, our trust there is typically even greater.
So here’s the long-winded point. Stalions was having people go into stadiums to film. I would be surprised if that many “sources” are incorrect. It seems like there’s a highly likelihood that Michigan was compensating third party or reimbursing Stalions for the expenses of putting this together. Seems likely as well. But how is it that everyone is so confident Harbaugh and the rest of the staff knew how it was happening and that it was crossing any lines? We don’t! Does anyone think Harbaugh or staff were watching videos taken on a cell phone of opposing coaches. Do they have time for that? Or is it more likely they saw a finished product of what signs would be called, descriptions of it .There’s no concrete evidence either way… Yet. So many are jumping to worst case scenario conclusions because it fits their desire, while Michigan fans defend, deflect and go to best case scenario.
Again, this is an OSU guy that took this position with me, a Michigan guy. He’s younger than me, is more tied into the Stalions generation and his big stance was with technology, AI, the amount of videos, the amount coverage on each football game, we don’t really know that Stalions didn’t claim he had a technology edge, with a team of people to better analyze video data than anyone in the country.
Is my hope best case scenario after talking about this? Yes because no one wants their program to be top to bottom guys that cross lines, but it’s also reasonable to say the average person doesn’t know if this is or is not the case. So while some run around screaming cheaters, until there’s proof, there’s also an argument that can be made that nearly everyone thought they had an edge that was still on the right side of things.
So go ahead and tear that thought apart, but the reality is we simply don’t know the facts yet. We know there’s likely lines crossed, but we don’t know the real story.
That’s a good post SM.
There are 2 separate and distinct issues here.
1. Did having detailed, comprehensive info regarding the opponents play calls give UM an in game, substantial advantage.
2. who knew- was involved.
so let’s assume for the sake of conversation that your above post is absolutely correct, and that the offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator and head coach had no idea how that knowledge was obtained, or that it was obtained illegally.
So- to question 2, you could make a very valid argument that the coaches should receive little or no sanctions/punishment.
Back to question 1. Because the opponents sideline signals were taped, and can be watched, rewound multiple times - it is the only way the signs can truly be disseminated. You can’t do that from just watching film or even televised games that are taped or the tape that coaches exchange. The only way to do it is to record the sideline signals and the play that was run and study it.
The signals are very sophisticated and complex. They take months to learn and can’t easily be changed. The PROCESS of how you send them in can be- and usually is. That’s why recorded film is key. If you watch it enough, you will eventually figure out a different processes a team has for sending the signals in.
So, even if the coaches didn’t know how he deciphered the signs, I don’t think a remotely credible argument could be made that Michigan did not have a substantial, endgame, play to play advantage during the time in question. And there is plenty of film of Stalions watching the opponent sideline, and quickly relaying that info to both Minter and Sherrone, and even Harbaugh.
And as such- I don’t know how you allow them to claim any titles or play in the postseason. Their wins are based upon a competitive advantage that rendered their opponents substantially less capable of having success.
Also would add-if the reports are true- there was a expense budget and a schedule for these opponents games- and it included taping ( as one example) OSU 8 times and Georgia 4 times, it makes it hard to understand how coaches were not involved- unless the control level was extremely poorly managed.
