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Topic: 2023 Michigan Season Thread

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FearlessF

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #1890 on: November 14, 2023, 11:23:31 AM »
Does that matter to a school with the $$$$$ of Michigan boosters in the era of NIL?

I frankly feel the next shoe to drop in the NIL world is going to be teams stockpiling talented "walk ons" to get around scholarship limits.
force them to do it
maybe they can limit the number of the coaching staff
limit the number of practices
there are ways to punish a program
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #1891 on: November 14, 2023, 11:28:00 AM »
I think the kinds of guys that are getting paid big NIL money, are also typically the types of guys who are likely NFL candidates. 

For those guys, playing time is usually equally as important as current NIL money, so I don't see many of them being willing to languish on the sideline and lose the chance at getting the playing time that will get them to the NFL.

In general the portal will act as a clearinghouse and the "NIL stockpiling non-playing talent" will not be much of an issue.
Yeah, so use your scholarships to stockpile high 3* / low 4* guys and have the high 4* / all 5* guys who are NFL-bound come in with big NIL contracts and be a starter as a "walk-on". 

That way you keep your advantage with the high 4* / 5* guys you would have gotten anyway, but you have more scholarship room to build the roster depth around them AND keep those high 3* / low 4* players away from the next tier down of schools so you decrease their ability to put together a roster that can challenge you. 

utee94

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #1892 on: November 14, 2023, 11:29:52 AM »
Yeah, so use your scholarships to stockpile high 3* / low 4* guys and have the high 4* / all 5* guys who are NFL-bound come in with big NIL contracts and be a starter as a "walk-on".

That way you keep your advantage with the high 4* / 5* guys you would have gotten anyway, but you have more scholarship room to build the roster depth around them AND keep those high 3* / low 4* players away from the next tier down of schools so you decrease their ability to put together a roster that can challenge you.

I suppose this could happen.  As far as I know, it's not happening yet. At Texas every big NIL guy is on scholarship.

ETA: Back in the day, Ricky Williams was a walk-on. He had a minor-league baseball contract that was paying him a couple hundred thousand per year, so he did not accept a football scholarship.  Weird stuff, huh?

medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #1893 on: November 14, 2023, 11:35:12 AM »
Rain man reference was hilarious. Also, i actually get your point about the video of the coaches on the sideline and I think that's where I'm not forming a firm opinion until more comes out. The optimistic side of me hopes the coaches all thought Stallions was doing similar work like what OSU and Rutgers prepared for Purdue and he was just "rain man" compared to everyone else, yet the pessimistic side of me considers that all the coaches knew and they collectively decided it was a stupid and dated rule and they said let's roll the dice. Somewhere in the middle and anything any distance from the forward is bad.
I see the continuum there.  Worst case to best case:
  • "All coaches knew and they collectively decided it was a stupid and dated rule and they said let's roll the dice."  
  • Stallions told a few others, maybe coordinators or possibly HC.  
  • Stallions told them that they didn't want to know.  
  • The other coaches all thought Stallions was doing similar work like what OSU and RU allegedly prepared for PU and he was just "rain man" compared to everyone else.  
It is kindof inherent that if you go to a tOSU fanboard, everyone is going to assume #1 and if you go to a M fanboard, everyone is going to assume #4.  

Honestly it probably isn't #1 and even if it was it seems unlikely that we'll find proof of that.  

OTOH, I see #4 as not all that likely as well.  

Even if it actually was #4 I can construct a strong argument (and the NCAA will construct such an argument) that it was the staff and HC's job to know.  

Frankly, I think it was most likely something between #3 and #4.  I think there was enough evidence that the rest of the Michigan staff either knew or should have known that Stallions couldn't possibly produce the results he was producing (figuring out tOSU's signals in the first drive) without doing something that was, at best, shady.  At that point, IMHO, it was incumbent upon the HC to find out.  He either did (#1 above) or didn't and neither of those is a good answer for Michigan.  
Lastly, this last paragraph i quoted above is what makes me wonder the most. I completely agree with that take of the responsibility of Ono and the position the University should take if there's at least reasonably solid proof of what went on.. OR they're stupid.. So it makes me wonder is Harbaugh and staff just trying to cover what they can to save their jobs and Ono is making a bad judgment call or stupid.. OR after sitting through meetings with Big10/NCAA do they know far more than the media and "sources" and there's more to the story or the picture isn't being painted correctly.

Listen, I think anyone that puts a vested interest in a team, university, company, etc hopes for the latter. No one with integrity wants to root for cheaters, dirtbags or people so clueless they don't know right from wrong.. so I'm hoping it's the latter although the forward could also be very possible and I'll be pissed that they brought shame to the University.
The Ono thing feels weird to me.  It honestly has me holding back a little bit.  Let me explain:
If Ono had stayed completely out of it I'd be more convinced than I already am that this was REALLY bad for Michigan.  So his sticking his head in is either evidence that maybe it isn't quite as bad as we've been led to believe or else Ono is just colossally stupid*.  Even if the evidence is only what we've pretty much been told, that Stallions purchased LOTS of tickets to games involving future M opponents Ono's involvement is nothing but bad for him and potentially the University.  

*Stupid:
Ono is apparently a genius researcher (I would expect that from a University President) but that doesn't eliminate the possibility that he is also kinda dense wrt football and politics (not partisan politics but NCAA Politics in this case).  

The thing is that Ono's involvement, I think, risks making this MUCH worse for Michigan than it already is.  If the NCAA's perception is that the institution simply doesn't take this rule-breaking seriously well, do the letters LOIC mean anything to you?  

Upthread @Mdot21 posted his "flipping the bird" response to the NCAA.  That is fine for an anonymous keyboard warrior/fan but if the the NCAA feels that the University of Michigan as an institution is "flipping them the bird" they might decide that said institution needs to be taught that the rules are not for losers and that cheating will not be tolerated.  It is insanely stupid on the part of the institution because the NCAA holds literally all the cards.  

Another thing:
Apparently the attorney who crafted Michigan's response is also a rabid Michigan fan and and message board poster.  That might not be such a good idea.  One of the jobs of an attorney is to tell their client, as Kenny Rodgers would say, when to fold.  The best legal advice I've ever gotten was NOT to pursue a case.  You don't want your attorney to be of the "fight everybody" mindset unless you HAVE to fight.  Part of an attorney's job is to help you pick your battles.  Your attorney needs to be the rational one who steps in and says "I know you are really mad and you think you've been wronged, but you need to get out of this case, it is a loser."  

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #1894 on: November 14, 2023, 11:35:44 AM »
I suppose this could happen.  As far as I know, it's not happening yet. At Texas every big NIL guy is on scholarship.
Yeah. I haven't heard that it's actually happening. 

And it's possible that it won't happen and it's just some hare-brained idea knocking around in the back of my skull. After all, a coach trying this as a recruiting tactic could be seen as disrespectful to some 5* who believes they deserve the scholarship which they don't even need with the all the NIL money. 

But I can also see it working: "Hey, Arch Manning, let's be honest... You're gonna be making BANK in NIL. But in order to make you as successful as we can, we want that scholarship to make sure you've got an offensive line who will give you time. If you and a couple other stars walk on, we'll be able to recruit the big uglies who aren't getting those NIL deals so that a star like you has the best ability to shine."

MrNubbz

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #1895 on: November 14, 2023, 11:46:49 AM »
I suppose this could happen.  As far as I know, it's not happening yet. At Texas every big NIL guy is on scholarship.
They should pay for tuition then as they obviously can afford it - getting 2 free rides is horseshit.Ya know provided they are actually attending classes
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

MaximumSam

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #1896 on: November 14, 2023, 11:50:54 AM »
Yeah. I haven't heard that it's actually happening.

And it's possible that it won't happen and it's just some hare-brained idea knocking around in the back of my skull. After all, a coach trying this as a recruiting tactic could be seen as disrespectful to some 5* who believes they deserve the scholarship which they don't even need with the all the NIL money.

But I can also see it working: "Hey, Arch Manning, let's be honest... You're gonna be making BANK in NIL. But in order to make you as successful as we can, we want that scholarship to make sure you've got an offensive line who will give you time. If you and a couple other stars walk on, we'll be able to recruit the big uglies who aren't getting those NIL deals so that a star like you has the best ability to shine."
OSU took two fairly high level transfers in Nigel Glover and Lorenzo Styles, and they are both currently "walk-ons"

FearlessF

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #1897 on: November 14, 2023, 11:53:01 AM »
Nubbz point
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

MikeDeTiger

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #1898 on: November 14, 2023, 12:11:54 PM »
A few extra bodies around the program usually won't hurt anything, but at some point that would squeeze out the traditional walk-on.  You know, the kid who isn't quite worthy of an athletic scholly but who really wants to play and works hard.  That would be a real shame.  There's only so many people a program can accommodate.  

SuperMario

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #1899 on: November 14, 2023, 12:13:18 PM »
@medinabuckeye1 

Your post is spot on. I didn't want to quote it because I think you and I have taken up some pages here, but I think we see the current state of the situation very similarly. The Ono part is seriously intriguing and I don't want to even comment on the Michigan attorney part being a poster on MGoBlog. That part is weird and is that seriously the best attorney for the situation? 

And completely agree on selecting attorneys. This past year of life showed me how important that reality is so I completely understand what you're saying there. 

Mdot21

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #1900 on: November 14, 2023, 01:00:06 PM »
As a serious note, big time college football is finally figuring out it is a professional organization given the product is worth hundreds of millions. The old timey school of discipline (vacated games, scholarship reductions) are practically laughable. They are trying to move to a newer model, but there isn't any uniform leadership, so what that could be is anyone's guess. Professional leagues typically take away draft picks, not something that applies here.
this, but the product is worth billions. not millions.

Mdot21

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #1901 on: November 14, 2023, 01:03:09 PM »
And the Ballad of Shemy Schembechler
yeesh. Jeem sure does know how to pick 'em.

I'm far more concerned with him hiring a pedo and a racist than some super-nerd fanboy who stole signs via advanced scouting in-person. That's my two cents at least. Vet your hires better Jeem.

Mdot21

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #1902 on: November 14, 2023, 01:13:01 PM »
247 looking ahead to 2025 NFL Draft for QB's. Make the case JJ should consider returning and with more development could wind up being the #1 pick in the 2025 draft. 

https://247sports.com/college/michigan/longformarticle/looking-ahead-to-the-2025-nfl-draft-qb-landscape-whos-qb1--220362733/#2302490

Mdot21

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #1903 on: November 14, 2023, 01:18:23 PM »
Paul Finebaum in a cage match vs a 74 year old Ric Flair. Let's make this happen...I'd pay the ppv just to see that.



https://twitter.com/RicFlairNatrBoy/status/1724441704743195027?s=20

 

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