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Topic: 2023 Michigan Season Thread

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ELA

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #1960 on: November 15, 2023, 04:06:22 PM »
I agree but I think the fact that they are beating the spread is much less of a red flag than the opposite would be.
Agreed, but its a weird coincidence.  Not so much from their side, as the bookmakers

ELA

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #1961 on: November 15, 2023, 04:08:21 PM »
And that means what? Oh yeah, nothing.
Um, yes it does.  Whether it means anything regarding Michigan's cheating is debatable, but it absolutely means something

SuperMario

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #1962 on: November 15, 2023, 04:08:42 PM »
This simply cannot be true as the B1G letter makes clear.

Even the Columbus Dispatch & Eleven Warriors reported this to be true. 


Secondly, I think it's a really bad argument when people claim it takes from Spring to be able to change and learn signs when almost everyone in the country now has been saying that in-game sign stealing is very common and teams have worked to combat that for a long time. If it's that common in-game, teams have been used to changing up signs and systems consistently. I simply don't buy the argument it takes so long to change it up. Again, I could be very wrong, but it sounds like another angle for some to paint Michigan in a corner of being a cheater. 

Lastly, Stroud.. Stroud had a MONSTER game. I don't get the angle about best NFL rookie and trying to act like Stroud had such a bad game against UM because UM had the signs. Stroud played lights out. He had 349 yards passing against Michigan and 348 against Georgia.  Claiming Michigan shut him down isn't really an accurate statement. 

Good.. we can go back to disagreeing :)

Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #1963 on: November 15, 2023, 04:20:40 PM »
and we do know that OSU changed their signs last year and had Michigan's signs and still got their asses kicked in Columbus. And every team uses dummy signals....

So make of that what you will.
The only part of this that is true- Michigan did kick their ass.

As Dawand Jones said, they “ tweaked “ their signals, but there is only so much you can do in a short time.

and as has been stated by many coaches, and should be obvious, when you have to change in a short period of time, what you change, it’s not the actual play signals, which are very complex and take months to learn, but what you change is how you decide who the “ hot” signal caller is.
teams can figure that out over the course of the game, especially if they actually know you’re play calls. Sometimes it takes about a half.  Might align with teams that have a really good second half.  Just saying..

As far as a Ohio State having Michigan’s signs-
That’s pure speculation on your part was not a shred of evidence to prove it.

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

SuperMario

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #1964 on: November 15, 2023, 04:37:47 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IycSMjFGDg

This is actually great to watch. Stroud has been a great QB to watch the last few years and this is every play vs UM last year. I'd say OSU's biggest problem was their O-line. And I don't think you can blame "signs" because it's very often, especially the second half you see Michigan rushing 4 and yet beating the O-line often and Stroud has to get rid of the ball quickly. Winning in the trenches due to signs? I don't buy that.

Secondly, Michigan DB's make some incredible plays to save TDs. Sainristril especially on the play where Stover had him beat, caught the ball and Sainristril knocks the ball out. Again, nothing to do with signs because Sainristril was beat.


I'm sure knowing signs can have an impact but sometimes talent just makes massive plays in a moment you can tell it was just talent doing their thing. 

Benthere2

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #1965 on: November 15, 2023, 04:43:39 PM »
i cant believe no other coach knew about this or questioned where the knowledge came from







medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #1966 on: November 15, 2023, 04:48:07 PM »
Even the Columbus Dispatch & Eleven Warriors reported this to be true.


Secondly, I think it's a really bad argument when people claim it takes from Spring to be able to change and learn signs when almost everyone in the country now has been saying that in-game sign stealing is very common and teams have worked to combat that for a long time. If it's that common in-game, teams have been used to changing up signs and systems consistently. I simply don't buy the argument it takes so long to change it up. Again, I could be very wrong, but it sounds like another angle for some to paint Michigan in a corner of being a cheater.

Lastly, Stroud.. Stroud had a MONSTER game. I don't get the angle about best NFL rookie and trying to act like Stroud had such a bad game against UM because UM had the signs. Stroud played lights out. He had 349 yards passing against Michigan and 348 against Georgia.  Claiming Michigan shut him down isn't really an accurate statement.

Good.. we can go back to disagreeing :)
On changing signs, this is my guess:

If I were designing a system, I think I'd teach my team say three complete sign systems. So let's say the sign for a TB run off LT is:
  • A picture of Jim Tressel
  • A picture of John Cooper
  • A picture of Earle Bruce
Then, as per usual, I'd have three  or four signalers and only one of them would be "hot" with the other two throwing up dummy signs.

Thus, I would have two ways to confuse opposing sign stealers:
  • I could switch between system 1, system 2, and system 3, and
  • I could switch the "hot" signaler.

If I had four signalers, this would effectively give me 12 systems:
  • Signaler 1, system 1
  • Sig 1, sys 2
  • 1,3
  • 2,1
  • 2,2
  • 2,3
  • 3,1
  • 3,2
  • 3,3
  • 4,1
  • 4,2
  • 4,3

If the opposing team was using the legal (Rain Man) method to decipher my signs, I *THINK* this would be enough to stay ahead of them for a game.


The whole game changes if the opponent already learned all three of my systems from advance in-person scouting with video and time to rewatch and code-break by reverse engineering my signs.

At that point they would enter the game already knowing that my three alternative signs for TB run off LT are the three aforementioned pictures of past tOSU coaches. Once I run that play, they'll be able to figure out which system I'm using and who the "hot" signaler is.

Mdot21

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #1967 on: November 15, 2023, 06:45:58 PM »
Well then stop saying tOSU changed their signs because it isn't true.

Your program is cheating scum and now you are an admitted liar.
Columbus Dispatch just made it up, amirite? 


https://www.dispatch.com/story/sports/college/football/2023/10/20/ohio-state-football-alleges-it-changed-signs-before-2022-michigan-game/71256859007/

Mdot21

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #1968 on: November 15, 2023, 06:48:50 PM »
Um, yes it does.  Whether it means anything regarding Michigan's cheating is debatable, but it absolutely means something
No, no it really doesn't. Transitive property in professional football- let alone college football where the players are 18-22 year old kids doesn't work. Ever. Just because UGA beat the brakes off TCU 65-7 and didn't beat the brakes off say South Carolina that year- means absolutely nothing. Less than nothing, actually.

ELA

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #1969 on: November 15, 2023, 06:51:59 PM »
During the regular season? Sure. The athletic writers always bring up dome games. That is what has removed the unpredictability from college football. Could Georgia get got on a random October Saturday in Columbia? Sure. But when it comes to dome games, the results have always reflected where the teams are

Mdot21

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #1970 on: November 15, 2023, 06:52:32 PM »
take it from you know, an actual football guy....not some loser meidiot who has never played the game....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsIQHF6DKPY

ELA

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #1971 on: November 15, 2023, 06:54:41 PM »
I'll trust anyone Rich Eisen gives airtime to about as much as I'll trust 11 Warriors

Mdot21

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #1972 on: November 15, 2023, 06:57:43 PM »
I'll trust anyone Rich Eisen gives airtime to about as much as I'll trust 11 Warriors
11 warriors is nothing but a bunch of fck boy living in their moms basement Ohio State die-hard nutjob retard bloggers.....

Eisen interviews, you know, actual NFL/football people....sooooo yeah....totally not the same thing...

ELA

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #1973 on: November 15, 2023, 06:59:04 PM »
11 warriors is nothing but a bunch of fck boy living in their moms basement Ohio State die-hard nutjob retard bloggers.....

Eisen interviews, you know, actual NFL/football people....sooooo yeah....totally not the same thing...
Cool.  He's also a UM alum/slappy, so I don't really need his take, or anyone whose take he wants to put on air.  

 

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