2023 Michigan Season Thread

[SuperMario]

this is ALL deflection

Deflection. It’s the new “conspiracy” word on this board.

anyone tries to take a reasonable stance and ask reasonable questions and it’s a conspiracy deflection. Maybe the MDOT route is just better.

[ELA]

A reasonable stance?

Sure.  Based on what is already known, Harbaugh was under penalized, but that was the most the Big Ten could do.  So any whining or self victimizing is already unreasonable.

The only reasonable stance at this point is to be thankful that the big 10 imposed a non-penalty.  As soon as it was announced, every reasonable take was that this was a non-penalty, but at least the big 10 could say they did something, to appease the people that wanted them to do something, but the penalty was actually nothing, so Michigan couldn't actually complain about it. Except then they built their entire victim complex around it

[FearlessF]

Deflection. It’s the new “conspiracy” word on this board.

anyone tries to take a reasonable stance and ask reasonable questions and it’s a conspiracy deflection. Maybe the MDOT route is just better.

ok, reasonable question..........
Did Michigan cheat????

[SuperMario]

.So any whining or self victimizing is already unreasonable.

So where is my whining and self victimizing stance? Show me.

for someone that knocks Michigan for believing they’re above everyone else, you sure as heck take that stance like you’re better than me and I’m a whiny pro-um goggled fool. And my takes haven’t been that and I’ve tried to hear people out when they speak to people with respect, yet take a firm stance. 

I guess the goal of some of here is to chase everyone away that doesn’t share your view. Enjoy diminishing the quality of the board further. You don’t seem to have a problem with trash posts and tweets posted over and over but someone trying to discuss a differing view is just a high school fool that couldn’t make it to college right?

man is this place nothing like it once was. 

[SuperMario]

ok, reasonable question..........
Did Michigan cheat????

Most likely yes. All the facts aren’t out, but it very much looks like they crossed the line (aka cheated) with sign stealing.

[FearlessF]

ok, I'm not tryin to chase anyone away

I just don't know why it matters if someone else cheated or if the cheating gave an advantage

cheating should be punished in my opinion

[ELA]

Which take? Not sure I fully understand what you’re saying here.

That I graduated with 700 kids.  Like 300 of them still live with their parents, but make fun of academics of other schools,.and posted #bet on their Facebook pages.  Saw that same victimization from everyone on the UM payroll, all the way to President Santa.  Jesus, Jim called Michigan "America's Team".  Everyone I know in out neighborhood, mostly Pitt, WVU and PSU fans, are all actively rooting against Michigan.  They have become the full on villain.

The UM alums I know, including multiple family members, are embarrassed.  They support the team, and want to play it out, but hate playing the victim.  That's pandering to the lowest denominator of UM fan, and every alum I know hates it.

The other thing Wasserman said on his podcast was that the NCAA should not punish UM at all, that just the fact that knowing that they were now not even on par with the bottom of the Big 10, but the bottom of the SEC was the worst penalty for Michigan.  That going forward Leaders and Best was something other schools could laugh at them over, was penalty enough

[ELA]

So where is my whining and self victimizing stance? Show me.

for someone that knocks Michigan for believing they’re above everyone else, you sure as heck take that stance like you’re better than me and I’m a whiny pro-um goggled fool. And my takes haven’t been that and I’ve tried to hear people out when they speak to people with respect, yet take a firm stance.

I guess the goal of some of here is to chase everyone away that doesn’t share your view. Enjoy diminishing the quality of the board further. You don’t seem to have a problem with trash posts and tweets posted over and over but someone trying to discuss a differing view is just a high school fool that couldn’t make it to college right?

man is this place nothing like it once was.

You said you wanted reasonable.  But then apparently any criticism isn't reasonable. So it appears that what you want isn't reasonable, it's absolute agreement.

I never said you were whiny or self-victimizing. I said the general stands of Michigan coaches, players, and administration is whiny in self-victimizing. I have a hard time seeing how any alternate stance is anything but unreasonable

[SuperMario]

You said you wanted reasonable.  But then apparently any criticism isn't reasonable. So it appears that what you want isn't reasonable, it's absolute agreement.

You have a negative view of Michigan fans regardless of what they say. My interactions with people that post on here that can act like a cordial human are perfectly accepting of criticisms and have differed on opinions. I never said they were unreasonable, but simply explained how my view was slightly different and tried to explain how I came to that stance.

if I wanted absolute agreement, I wouldn’t even communicate. Multiple times i have stated I like to talk things through to hear the other side so it helps shape my stance. How is that possibly someone that wants absolute agreement? You simply shape UM fans into what you want to see, rather than what an individual one is. I don’t take kindly to that, especially when I work hard in life to have high character, firm on moral standards, yet willing to hear others out to further educate myself. This once was a place that cultivated that.

[ELA]

I'm just saying the stance of the hundreds of UM fans/alumni I interact with on a regular basis.  I'm not speaking for you, because you are here.  But the takes of the head coach, who says he's coaching America's team, and the president of the university who is speaking like he is dealing with some sort of trauma from the outside, is in line with the takes of the Michigan fans I do interact with.

As soon as the Mel Tucker story dropped, as much as I knew it would set our program back years, I said he had to go.  I didn't know the whole story.  Due process wasnt complete.  But simply based on what we did know at the time,.solely based on ESPN reporting, I knew we had to eat it and move on.  My degree was worth more than sacrificing the reputation of the university to win a couple more football games

[SuperMario]

You said you wanted reasonable.  But then apparently any criticism isn't reasonable. So it appears that what you want isn't reasonable, it's absolute agreement.

But you were speaking of me. You can side spin it all you want, but this is evidence you were speaking directly of me saying what I want isn’t reasonable and what I do want is absolute agreement. 

is this where I use the word “deflection?”

Own it when you’re wrong, especially when it’s attacking another person here.

I don’t really understand comparing Mel Tucker pleasuring himself on the phone with a sexual abuse victim with one of Michigan’s assistant coaches stealing signs and Harbaugh’s uncertain connection as comparable. If Harbaugh is tied in and there’s proof, yes fire him, but how is that relatable?

[MrNubbz]

when the Tressel story broke Bama Buckeye - who ducked out a few yrs back and I (few others too)weren't against Tressel being dismissed.The attempt to cover it up was worse than the infraction. But Tressel got cute and started telling the fans "well I'm going to suspend myself a week" which just pissed the faithfull off as it was an attempt to look remorseful at the expense of chump change - we weren't buying it. Then he comes out and goes alright Ill go two,then 3....well by that time the axe has fell.I don't think he was a bad guy but playing off others as rubes when you're spewing hooey just ain't gonna fly in most places

[ELA]

But you were speaking of me. You can side spin it all you want, but this is evidence you were speaking directly of me saying what I want isn’t reasonable and what I do want is absolute agreement.

is this where I use the word “deflection?”

Own it when you’re wrong, especially when it’s attacking another person here.

I don’t really understand comparing Mel Tucker pleasuring himself on the phone with a sexual abuse victim with one of Michigan’s assistant coaches stealing signs and Harbaugh’s uncertain connection as comparable. If Harbaugh is tied in and there’s proof, yes fire him, but how is that relatable?

Yes, you said you wanted reasonable.  I meant the take of every other Michigan fan I interact with, I'm not putting on you.  But yes, if you are asking for reasonable, and then saying any criticism is unreasonable. The punishment, based on what is known, is actually extremely light.  Due process might result in greater punishment, but it might not.

I'm not comparing the indiscretions.  I'm more than willing for due process to play out to see if Mel deserves his money. I just knew I just knew immediately. I didn't want that guy devaluating my degree. And I think that's the divide.  The Michigan alums I know hate what Harbaugh is doing to the school,.by turning into Auburn North.  But Michigan fans are fine with it,.as.long as they win.  They are defending him more with multiple level one violations, then they were 2 years ago, before he started cheating, simply because he was losing. That isn't just reasonable, that's a fact

[Hawkinole]

ELA was Ann Arbor Adam before he was ELA, so there is that. Has ELA given up his entire Michigan fandom? I can't speak to that.
There should be punishment on Michigan for what we already know. Michigan didn't seem to conduct much investigation before firing Connor Stalions. Where was his due process? Michigan knew immediately after it was accused it violated NCAA rules through sign stealing by scouting opponents. Now Michigan wants hearings on what the remainder of the coaching staff knew, even though the institution immediately knew it was guilty.
Michigan's defense is, "Don't take our away our chance of being national champions." In doing so it deflects from its responsibility by saying other schools steal signs, too, but the evidence Michigan presents is that the sign stealing of others was within the rules. Michigan's sign stealing was outside the rules.
The evidence appears to show there was a budget for sending scouts to sign steal. Michigan football sign-stealing probe began after firm obtained video from school computers, per reports - CBSSports.com The videos were saved on the Michigan coaching staff computer hard drive. Id.
I have said on here before this that this is a fairly minor violation, only because I believe the rules will almost certainly be changed next year, after this year's fiasco. Why should the punishment for this year's violations be visited on a future innocent Michigan team and players? The punishment should be visited upon this team.
Even though the violations seem minor, because I believe the rules will be changed, nevertheless it was a huge advantage for Michigan to know what plays opponents were running before the snap.
USC's 2005 BCS national championship was vacated because one player (Reggie Bush) received financial benefits from a sports agent. There is no evidence USC knew their opponent's plays in advance. It would seem to me that knowing what play the opponent's offense will run, is a much bigger advantage than playing one ineligible starter out of 30 or so starters.
Incidentally, Connor Stalions has not publicly denied being on the sidelines incognito wearing sunglasses in CMU coaching gear at the CMU @ MSU game, as far as I know. If it wasn't him, he'd have reason to say so. Perhaps CMU has issues knowingly allowing a college football scout on their sidelines.