2023 Michigan Season Thread

[Temp430]

Signs deciphered by advance RECORDING are cheating.  Nobody disputes that.  Signs deciphered in game are not.  Nobody disputes that.  Why is this so hard for you to admit?  It is what the rest of the CFB world already acknowledges. 

What is sad has nothing to do with agreeing with me- but you know that.

what I find sad is that Michigan fans won’t just admit that what stallions did was broad, comprehensive, sophisticated, cheating, and that it should not have happened, and it gave them an advantage.  It’s really simple and again when I believe the overwhelming majority of college football, media, coaches, players, and fans understand.

Its totally within the rules to decipher signs from video recordings obtained from non-in person scouting.  To beat a dead horse the alleged violation is when a football staff member attends an opponents game.  That staff member could be in the stands doing mimes and not even watching the game and it would still be a violation.  Paying others with private funds to scout opponents signs goes against the spirit of the B1G or NCAA rules.  It is in a grey area that could be argued as being within the rules.  Earlier Michigan said it would fully comply with the NCAA's investigation and would adhere to the spirit of any potentially violated rules.  But then certain ADs started to moan and piss to the Big Ten front office and BMOC Tony Petitti involved himself in this matter.  Petitti insisted on a suspension for Coach Harbaugh that would violate the Big Ten's own rules.  So, Michigan has gone out and retained a law firm and all bets are off.  Petitti lit the fuse and is the only person that can defuse the situation and I doubt that'll happen.

[Cincydawg]

I've yet to see clear evidence Michigan benefitted.  That is what I'd call cheating, if they did (and I suspect they did).  

Maybe he did this and the rest of the staff didn't know about it, or declined to use the information, or told him to go pound sand.  Probably?  No.  Maybe?  Yes.  Find evidence the team benefitted from this scheme.  I think that evidence is all that is needed for a major bomb to happen here.  If it doesn't exist, Michigan will get a minor penalty I think.  If it does ...

[847badgerfan]

It is POSSIBLE Stalions cheated, that seems certain, and Michigan didn't.

It all comes down to this.

It's clear Stalions broke the rules.

It is completely possible that the rest of the staff did not know about it. If the guy presented himself as a sign-stealing expert, and the UM staff bought it, then UM as an institution is clear. If ANYONE knew how he stole the signs, UM is in trouble.

It seems simple to me.

[SuperMario]

Signs deciphered by advance RECORDING are cheating.  Nobody disputes that.  Signs deciphered in game are not.  Nobody disputes that.  Why is this so hard for you to admit?  It is what the rest of the CFB world already acknowledges. 

What is sad has nothing to do with agreeing with me- but you know that.

what I find sad is that Michigan fans won’t just admit that what stallions did was broad, comprehensive, sophisticated, cheating, and that it should not have happened, and it gave them an advantage.  It’s really simple and again when I believe the overwhelming majority of college football, media, coaches, players, and fans understand.

Your continued argument is most people see it your way so it has to be right. A) you can’t prove that B) that’s not a good argument. So much of society are flawed thinkers and cannot critically think. Parenting 101 is just because your friends are doing it doesn’t make it ok. But the majority is doing it so it must be ok.

Secondly, how do you know all the details? Can you share it with the world? We’d like to know how you know these details of how broad and sophisticated this was.

[Mdot21]

I disagree.  It’s pretty obvious- or why would you do it for 3 seasons, spending money on 35 games, hiring or asking 65 different people to video the opponents signals and paying for all that?

But it isn’t even a relevant question.  It is a blatant violation of the rules. 

Brady Quinn has talked about this ad nauseam. He says he's talked to coaches that were complaining over this and he told them point blank- I personally know the guy who steals signs for your team. He has said there are 3rd parties/scouts which go out and scout a bunch of schools and record signs and then sell their info to staffers/coaches on other schools. 

Sign stealing is not against the rules. There is no bylaw against it. And AGAIN, for the 1,000,000th time- the bylaw which prohibits recording of signs applies ONLY to GAME DAY vs an opponent. Meaning...you can't have coaches/staffers/players filming the sidelines of the team they are currently playing. 

There is no bylaw about recording signals from the stands vs teams you aren't currently playing. None. Nada. Zilch. 

There is a bylaw which prohibits staffers from doing in-person advanced scouting. And that is the bylaw which Stallions seems to have broken. Period. This sign stealing hoopla is nonsense. 

[Honestbuckeye]

It all comes down to this.

It's clear Stalions broke the rules.

It is completely possible that the rest of the staff did not know about it. If the guy presented himself as a sign-stealing expert, and the UM staff bought it, then UM as an institution is clear. If ANYONE knew how he stole the signs, UM is in trouble.

It seems simple to me.

I mostly agree.  But- assuming nobody else knew- the illegal activity still took place. 

So- the question of weather cheating took place- that is it’s own question and has been answered. How do you rectify that?  (Games forfeited or vacated) And this needs to be addressed like NOW- for obvious reasons. 

The question of who else knew/ signed off/ utilized is not answered.  That clearly requires more time. If true- that would not be a “ rectify” but more of a “ punishment”.  Too early for that IMHO

[betarhoalphadelta]

It all comes down to this.

It's clear Stalions broke the rules.

It is completely possible that the rest of the staff did not know about it. If the guy presented himself as a sign-stealing expert, and the UM staff bought it, then UM as an institution is clear. If ANYONE knew how he stole the signs, UM is in trouble.

It seems simple to me.

Disagree with the bold. Since Stalions was a UM staff member, and violated the rules, that by definition means that the institution violated the rules. If the NCAA/B1G deems that punishment is warranted, the punishment should be at the institutional level (scholarship reduction, vacated wins, etc). 

If Stalions presented himself as said expert, and the UM staff bought it and didn't know of the violation, then the other people involved (other assistant coaches and up to Harbaugh) should individually be clear. 

[Temp430]

Hypocrisy at its finest


https://www.si.com/college/michigan/football/michigan-wolverines-football-jim-harbaugh-big-ten-ncaa-investigation-sign-stealing-connor-stalions

[847badgerfan]

I mostly agree.  But- assuming nobody else knew- the illegal activity still took place. 

So- the question of weather cheating took place- that is it’s own question and has been answered. How do you rectify that?  (Games forfeited or vacated) And this needs to be addressed like NOW- for obvious reasons. 

The question of who else knew/ signed off/ utilized is not answered.  That clearly requires more time. If true- that would not be a “ rectify” but more of a “ punishment”.  Too early for that IMHO

Not sure if it's enough, but the perpetrator has been fired and is not talking.

There is also this "knew or should have known" thing that the NCAA likes to throw around. That will be a key.

[847badgerfan]

Disagree with the bold. Since Stalions was a UM staff member, and violated the rules, that by definition means that the institution violated the rules. If the NCAA/B1G deems that punishment is warranted, the punishment should be at the institutional level (scholarship reduction, vacated wins, etc).

If Stalions presented himself as said expert, and the UM staff bought it and didn't know of the violation, then the other people involved (other assistant coaches and up to Harbaugh) should individually be clear.

The individual in question has already been fired, which is the path toward institutional clearance, in my opinion.

[Mdot21]

Look at Tennessee. Their football program was facing hundreds of NCAA violations- that investigation took 3 years- and 18 of those violations were Level I- the most serious type of NCAA violation there is.

Despite facing 18 Level I violations, the Vols avoided the death penalty, avoided any tv, CCG, or bowl bans. They got a slap on the wrist. Paid an $8 million fine (which is nothing to a helmet school), probation for 5 years, vacated wins (which not a single person actually cares about), and had a 28 total scholarship reduction over 5 years. Which totals out to 5.6 a year. Slap on the wrist.

[ELA]

The individual in question has already been fired, which is the path toward institutional clearance, in my opinion.

He resigned, wasn't fired

[Temp430]

Hoping Michigan announces a contract extension and raise for Coach Harbaugh shortly. 

[Mdot21]

Michigan has announced it has hired Williams & Connolly LLP. One of the most prestigious law firms in the US based out of DC. 

Legal battle, commenced.