2023 Michigan Season Thread

[medinabuckeye1]

Oh and to the OSU slappies crying like women....sign stealing does not equal video taping opponents practice footage or stealing playbooks/weekly game plans/intercepting in-game opponent coaching headset audio.

Everyone steals signs. It's not illegal. Period. The issue remains the in-person advanced scouting bylaw- which AGAIN for the 1000th fcking time- was put in place not to prevent sign stealing (which again for the 1000th fcking time- is LEGAL) - but because the poors were bitching up a storm that they didn't have the football budget that the rich helmets did to send staffers to opponents games. It was all over a have vs the have nots issue. Wasn't ever about sign stealing. Which again...is legal.

Michigan should get the death penalty . . .
Because they have fans like this.

Oh, and for letting two tickets to a top-10 tOSU/PSU game go unused after their cheating scheme was unmasked  

[Honestbuckeye]

Oh and to the OSU slappies crying like women....sign stealing does not equal video taping opponents practice footage or stealing playbooks/weekly game plans/intercepting in-game opponent coaching headset audio.

Everyone steals signs. It's not illegal. Period. The issue remains the in-person advanced scouting bylaw- which AGAIN for the 1000th fcking time- was put in place not to prevent sign stealing (which again for the 1000th fcking time- is LEGAL) - but because the poors were bitching up a storm that they didn't have the football budget that the rich helmets did to send staffers to opponents games. It was all over a have vs the have nots issue. Wasn't ever about sign stealing. Which again...is legal.

Talk about crying like a little girl…
Thanks for straightening us all out. 

None of us knew Michigan was being investigated for something that is legal, just to make sure they are not too far ahead of their competitors. 

😂😂

[Mdot21]

[Honestbuckeye]

Thankfully we have SM here.  

He is the only UM fan I know who puts the integrity of the game before his fan hood.  That’s called manhood.  

The rest are crying, deflecting, blaming anyone else.  Fricken embarrassing.  

[Mdot21]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDhNkDkjvqM

[betarhoalphadelta]

Again. There are multiple levels here. There's also a level of due diligence or "should have known" here.

• It's clear that Stalions was able to understand opposing signs and the coaches knew this and took his input. I think that's clear and I don't think even the Michigan faithful are disputing it. 
• It's unclear what Stalions told Michigan about how he was able to understand the opposing signs. I find it fairly incredible that he could convince them that he did this legally, but that article about him makes him sound a little insane. If he's got a 600 (or whatever) page Michigan Manifesto, he very well might be the type of person who would falsify enough evidence that he could do analytics on PUBLIC video / etc to do it. It's a stretch, but con men often get where they are by being really good at conning. 
• It's unclear where the money was coming from. If it was purely Stalions paying for it out of his family's coffers, there would be no reason for Michigan to know. However if he was in any way "selling" this service to the Wolvies (beyond his meagre analyst salary), there will be a paper and payment trail. IMHO at that point the onus is even FURTHER on the Michigan staff to show they did their due diligence and had reason to believe what Stalions was doing wasn't illegal. 

I suppose per HB that if they were cheating and benefited it, it would be cause for vacated wins and probably a bowl ban for THIS season since their performance includes the cheating-based advantages. That would be true even if the coaches weren't aware. 

However, if the program successfully proves that there was no way they should have known about what Stalions was doing and that it was plausible and believed that he was stealing signs legitimately, it would largely prevent future sanctions and punishment for the rest of the coaching staff. 

[MikeDeTiger]

Regardless of what was done or what comes of it, it makes me look at Michigan's seasons in a different light.  I've enjoyed their resurgence and watching their hard-nosed play.  But in the future, whether I consciously mean to or not, I'll probably discount the accomplishments compared to other teams.  Like, if they win a championship this year I probably won't be talking about it years from now as with other NC's due to the mental asterisk. 

If they do win a natty, the fans may be just fine with that, and I can understand that too.  

[Mdot21]

Again. There are multiple levels here. There's also a level of due diligence or "should have known" here.

• It's clear that Stalions was able to understand opposing signs and the coaches knew this and took his input. I think that's clear and I don't think even the Michigan faithful are disputing it.
• It's unclear what Stalions told Michigan about how he was able to understand the opposing signs. I find it fairly incredible that he could convince them that he did this legally, but that article about him makes him sound a little insane. If he's got a 600 (or whatever) page Michigan Manifesto, he very well might be the type of person who would falsify enough evidence that he could do analytics on PUBLIC video / etc to do it. It's a stretch, but con men often get where they are by being really good at conning.
• It's unclear where the money was coming from. If it was purely Stalions paying for it out of his family's coffers, there would be no reason for Michigan to know. However if he was in any way "selling" this service to the Wolvies (beyond his meagre analyst salary), there will be a paper and payment trail. IMHO at that point the onus is even FURTHER on the Michigan staff to show they did their due diligence and had reason to believe what Stalions was doing wasn't illegal.

I suppose per HB that if they were cheating and benefited it, it would be cause for vacated wins and probably a bowl ban for THIS season since their performance includes the cheating-based advantages. That would be true even if the coaches weren't aware.

However, if the program successfully proves that there was no way they should have known about what Stalions was doing and that it was plausible and believed that he was stealing signs legitimately, it would largely prevent future sanctions and punishment for the rest of the coaching staff.

lot of the above is a stretch- there won't be jack happening to them this season. NCAA hasn't brought forth a notice of allegations, and that probably won't come for a hot minute. And once that does come- Michigan will have 90 days to respond to it. Meaning: even if they brought NOA today- that still puts us 90 days out before any punishment could be dealt down by NCAA. Fyi- that NOA ain't coming any time soon. Going to be at least a month or so- probably longer before an NOA from NCAA even comes down the pike.

At the end of all this- they won't vacate wins. Jeem won't get fired. He's going to the NFL and Michigan will get scholarship reductions, probation, and other various slaps on the wrist.

[Mdot21]

Regardless of what was done or what comes of it, it makes me look at Michigan's seasons in a different light.  I've enjoyed their resurgence and watching their hard-nosed play.  But in the future, whether I consciously mean to or not, I'll probably discount the accomplishments compared to other teams.  Like, if they win a championship this year I probably won't be talking about it years from now as with other NC's due to the mental asterisk.

If they do win a natty, the fans may be just fine with that, and I can understand that too. 

if they win a natty- the fans won't give a shiiiiit and 10-15 years from now no one will remember or care. it will be an afterthought and a foot note. 

no one gives a single sh*t about spygate or deflate gate. all anyone remembers is how the Pats completed dominated the NFL for 20 years and how Tom Brady is the GOAT football player ever and Bill Belichik the GOAT coach. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

At the end of all this- they won't vacate wins. Jeem won't get fired. He's going to the NFL and Michigan will get scholarship reductions, probation, and other various slaps on the wrist.

Honestly with the limited knowledge we have, I don't know how the NCAA doesn't vacate wins. But as you point out, fans don't care about that. In this case though I think everyone except Michigan fans are going to asterisk the last 3 seasons because of how dominant Michigan was against the spread, which IMHO is kind of a big deal and shows that they SERIOUSLY outperformed at the exact same time they were cheating. This isn't like a recruiting violation that all happens before the games are played and the game results are viewed as legit. This is direct cheating that affects the results in the game, during the game. 

But if the program didn't know about it due to being conned by Stalions, that protects the program IMHO from scholarship restrictions, protects Jim from the show cause, etc. 

[Temp430]

Despite 3rd Base Day’s PR machine Coach Harbaugh’s reputation remains pure as the driven snow.

[Mdot21]

Despite 3rd Base Day’s PR machine Coach Harbaugh’s reputation remains pure as the driven snow.

I dislike cryin' Ryan as much as the next guy, but this isn't on him. 

John U Bacon is as plugged in as it gets. If he says that it's a former Michigan guy- Stapleton that is behind all the leaks and all the drama- then I'd say that's probably accurate. 

[847badgerfan]

Yep.

[Mdot21]

Honestly with the limited knowledge we have, I don't know how the NCAA doesn't vacate wins. But as you point out, fans don't care about that. In this case though I think everyone except Michigan fans are going to asterisk the last 3 seasons because of how dominant Michigan was against the spread, which IMHO is kind of a big deal and shows that they SERIOUSLY outperformed at the exact same time they were cheating. This isn't like a recruiting violation that all happens before the games are played and the game results are viewed as legit. This is direct cheating that affects the results in the game, during the game.

But if the program didn't know about it due to being conned by Stalions, that protects the program IMHO from scholarship restrictions, protects Jim from the show cause, etc.

you have no clue what the NCAA will do- neither do I- but I'd say it's unlikely that the NCAA is going to vacate wins. This is a level 3 violation- by the rule book. And I would say it is highly unlikely that the NCAA is going to hammer Michigan because: money. They are a money hungry money grubbing pig of an organization at the end of the day- and ESPN/ABC didn't pay billions for the TV rights for the playoff and CBS/FOX didn't pay an even bigger fortune for the TV rights of the B1G for one of the top 5 or so TV generating cash cows in all of CFB to get nuked and receive the death penalty.

Bitter jealous envious fans of opponent teams can say all they want- doesn't matter. The wins happened. Colts fans still cry about the Pats. And other NFL fans just laugh at them. this will all pass and no one will give a shit in 20 years like no one in sports media or nfl fans gives a shit about spygate and deflate gate- except for crybaby Colts fans and the like.  

Recruiting violations are arguably worse. Paying for great players affects the game way more than sign stealing. At the end of the day- this sign stealing is nothing but a bunch of bullsh*t. It's all about the JIMMYS AND THE JOES. Not the X's and the O's. You want to know why Michigan "seriously out-performed" - they started getting A LOT BETTER players. It's really that simple. Blake Corum and Donovan Edwards >>>>>>>> every RB Jeem had before combined times 10. Will Johnson >>>>>>> a lot better CB1 than any CB that Jeem had before. Aidan Hutchinson >>>>> a lot better than any defensive player he's had before. You've seen the guy in the NFL right, he's pretty fcking good. And last but not least- Jeem has BY FAR the best QB he's ever had at Michigan. And it's not even remotely fcking close. That's how you level up a program- by getting better players.

And there is no bylaw against stealing signs. And the bylaw which prohibits to recording of signs only applies to staff on the field on game day.