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Topic: 2023 Michigan Season Thread

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Mdot21

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #672 on: October 25, 2023, 08:27:15 AM »
That cracks me up.

“ we didn’t break the rules, we hired someone to do it for us”
NCAA is going to have to prove that Jeem/Michigan knew about all of it and that they were the ones funding it. if there is no proof of that- the staffer is the one that is going to take all of the bullets. 

medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #673 on: October 25, 2023, 08:27:59 AM »
That cracks me up.

“ we didn’t break the rules, we hired someone to do it for us”
Distinction without a difference. 

medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #674 on: October 25, 2023, 08:31:28 AM »
NCAA is going to have to prove that Jeem/Michigan knew about all of it and that they were the ones funding it. if there is no proof of that- the staffer is the one that is going to take all of the bullets.
Nope.

The standard is knew or should have known.

Stalions was calling tOSU's plays on the first drive last year and Harbaugh was right there. You can't do that without advance knowledge. 

Should have known, guilty. 

Dirty basketball program. 

Dirty football program. 

Dirty athletic department. 

Dirty institution.

scUM.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #675 on: October 25, 2023, 08:39:29 AM »
apparently this guy is a super-fan loser and had been buying tickets and going to every Michigan game since the mid 2000s. he went from super-fan stalker going to every game and showing up to the teams hotels to cheer on the players to unpaid volunteer at Michigan summer camps to eventually getting hired as a low level staffer making $55k a year.

apparently he has made a bunch of money in real estate and is only working in college football for Michigan because it's an obsession, not doing it for the money. he's apparently got lotta dough already.
Yeah- he can be a slappy at times.

To his credit- he is tougher on MSU than anyone. In this video- he calls MSU a complete embarrassment. 

As to the Michigan issue- he takes a very fair approach to all of the narratives coming out of the UM fans/ slappies, and BURIES them, easily, one by one:

- this guy is a rogue actor/ lone wolf
-It doesn’t give Michigan an advantage
-Harbaugh didn’t know
- everyone does it
-the NCAA is out to get Harbaugh/ witch hunt
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

MrNubbz

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #676 on: October 25, 2023, 08:44:41 AM »
Well this thread hasn't aged well - enjoy the last brilliant autumn days and Indian Summer rays of the season. Toss back a few Oktoberfests maybe some rum/bourbon with cider and cinnamon around a toasty fall fire before old man winter starts kicking us in the nads for 4 months.Got all off season to whizz in each others Wheaties.Play Ball!!! speaking of which I need to pay some attention to the Fall Classic coming up
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

Mdot21

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #677 on: October 25, 2023, 08:46:23 AM »
Nope.

The standard is knew or should have known.

Stalions was calling tOSU's plays on the first drive last year and Harbaugh was right there. You can't do that without advance knowledge.

Should have known, guilty.

Dirty basketball program.

Dirty football program.

Dirty athletic department.

Dirty institution.

scUM.
Lol. Ok. 

So Jeem should've known every single thing this Stallions fellow ever did? Jeem should've been looking at all his credit card statements, emails, texts, phone calls, etc. on the daily. Got it. 

SuperMario

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #678 on: October 25, 2023, 09:42:19 AM »


So that’s why People are so worked up.  They see this as an enormous in game, play to play advantage that Michigan has had.
I was going to respond this morning, but the kiddos had me running circles. MB's posts are exactly what irk the hell out of me. It's juvenile and it's not how this board was for many years. When OSU was constantly in the spotlight, posters here didn't run around and call each other's programs cheaters and scumbags.  Apparently gone are the days that Gator and Badge were the guiding light to just great atmosphere here where disagreements still centered on respect. This board has changed as much as the game of college football. It's sad. We should just close up shop and go to twitter as it's similar interactions.

What i was going to type up this morning was this. I fully believe that Michigan was doing this. How it started I have no idea. Everyone calling Michigan cheaters and saying they're the worst of the worst is where I simply laugh and why i go to hypocrisy statements. If you're saying they're cheaters, you're stating no one else is doing this and they're the only ones outside the lines. Many former players have come out and said sign stealing has been a thing for a long time.

In life, people look for gray areas to find and advantage for great success. Lawyers look for arguments based on interpretation of the law. CPA's do the same. Many many businesses spend a fortune on lawyers to argue their interpretation of the gray area. Does that make the world a bunch of cheaters or people trying to find every angle for an advantage.

That being said. Are there people that blatantly cheat, commit fraud and break the law? Yeah, there is and they deserve the punishment they eventually get, if they ever do. They deserve people calling them out. My point in this entire situation is that we don't know the exact details and interpretation of the rule. Maybe Michigan including Harbaugh looked at the rule and it states they couldn't have staff on site to scout opponents, but it's vague about people not employed by the university doing it. Does that make it right? ehh.. that's where you can have an argument on both sides, but if it's a gray area that doesn't have clarity on the rules, it's not cheating either.

If ultimately that's the stance, that it's blatantly cheating. Then you better go back and acknowledge that Ohio State cheated in the past. Even though it was common for players to be getting paid, to be taking jobs on payroll that weren't real jobs.. it was a competitive advantage getting them ahead and in your eyes, who cares if it's common practice, it's cheating.

Any reasonable person can acknowledge it looks like they had a system in place. They can acknowledge it looks like they problem took advantage of a rule that's old, dated, not relevant and took an angle on that rule that might have crossed the line, but we don't really know yet. Unreasonable people are calling them all cheaters, scum and acting like they know every detail and the only reason their team every lost is because their team was perfectly honest and honorable and that's garbage. Every team is looking for an angle which is why guys like Urban Meyer employ people to study one team and one team only. I'm sure honest Urban's guy never looked at trying to snag signal calling from a year of video studying.. Must be a cheater.

Lastly, i feel bad for the players. Players at that level are looking for guidance on the field an off through coaching staff. Now all these guys are immediately labeled as cheaters as they are giving every effort to be the best at what they do. Imagine being a professional that owns a business, you have attorneys that have a job to guide you in legal decisions. There's a gray area that your attorney tells you is the way to get ahead of your competition because the law is vague and there's an argument to be made to go that route and it's not black in white. You listen and go that route. Your competition calls you out, hangs you out to dry publicly without all the facts and details and every person you care about labels you and your business cheaters and terrible humans.

If after the fact, it's clear they knowingly crossed the line and the NCAA rule is clear as day, then everything slamming them is deserved. We aren't there yet.. but again, some people like to run out the fastest with handcuffs because losing has been too uncomfortable. That's my book on it.. now enjoy piling the twitter posts while I hang out to the memories of what this board once was. 

Cincydawg

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #679 on: October 25, 2023, 09:44:11 AM »
Can anyone cite the NCAA rule?

MaximumSam

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #680 on: October 25, 2023, 09:52:18 AM »
Can anyone cite the NCAA rule?
NCAA Bylaw 11.6.1: “Off-campus, in-person scouting of future opponents (in the same season) is prohibited.”

Cincydawg

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #681 on: October 25, 2023, 09:54:38 AM »
Michigan football sign-stealing scandal, explained: What to know about NCAA violation allegations, investigation | Sporting News

Notably, sign stealing is allowed if it's not done using electronics to relay information to players or coaches. Programs cannot, however, send anyone to scout a future opponent in-person within the same season. In-person scouting of opponents has been outlawed since 1994.

"Late Wednesday afternoon, the Big Ten Conference and University of Michigan were notified by the NCAA that the NCAA was investigating allegations of sign stealing by the University of Michigan football program," the statement read, 
NCAA bylaw 11.6.1 prohibits teams from in-season, in-person scouting of future opponents. “Off-campus, in-person scouting of future opponents (in the same season) is prohibited," the rule reads.
In addition to allegedly scouting regular-season opponents, Yahoo Sports reports, Michigan is being investigated for scouting "possible College Football Playoff opponents," though it's unclear which teams might have been observed by the Wolverines.
Since the Big Ten said it was only notified of the investigation on Wednesday, it seems the inquiry is in its early stages.




Mdot21

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #682 on: October 25, 2023, 09:58:10 AM »
future opponents suggests teams on the schedule....well if you're doing in-person advanced scouting of teams not on your schedule....loophole.

MaximumSam

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #683 on: October 25, 2023, 10:02:24 AM »

ELA

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #684 on: October 25, 2023, 10:05:15 AM »
future opponents suggests teams on the schedule....well if you're doing in-person advanced scouting of teams not on your schedule....loophole.

SuperMario

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Re: 2023 Michigan Season Thread
« Reply #685 on: October 25, 2023, 10:11:27 AM »
Here's is the exact copy of it from the NCAA hand book. Its actually free to look at.. LINK

I think the angle Michigan is going to take and is the gray area is the language in bylaws 11.6.1.1 and 16.6.1.2, using the language "institutional staff member." Say what you will, but I'm willing to bet that the people that were on-site were NOT institutional staff members and that's the angle Michigan would play if they ever had to. From a legal perspective, show me how they violated that language?



 

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