Please include a BTT performance prediction for completenessIt's Medina. You know it's coming. He just needs to wait for his time slot on the supercomputer to crunch the numbers :57:
Please include a BTT performance prediction for completeness
It's Medina. You know it's coming. He just needs to wait for his time slot on the supercomputer to crunch the numbers :57:Honestly I don't care with a few exceptions:
https://www.elevenwarriors.com/skull-sessions/2023/03/137828/skull-session-gene-smith-told-chris-holtmann-play-the-freshmen-kyle-mccord-becoming-a-leader-is-a-natural-transition-andThat reads like a euphemism more than a command.
So Gene Smith and Chris Holtmann got their stories straight.
IMHO, this is ridiculous. If true it seems that Smith is getting way too involved in the day-to-day operations of the BB program. Regardless, 2022-2023 wasn't Holtmann's first year. If it had been, then I'd be excited about the strong finish with a lot of young guys on the court.
Good news for Purdue!Though that team did also get to play Purdue in the tourney
The only other #1 seed to ever lose in the first round won the NC the next year.
Micah Shrewsberry taking the Notre Dame job
Huge loss for PSU.Is it just plain impossible to win consistently at Penn State?
Is it just plain impossible to win consistently at Penn State?I'd say it's about to get ugly, but Kansas State is in the Elite 8 with an entire roster of transfers, so who knows. Building a program doesn't really matter anymore in basketball
They have a handful of NCAA appearances and even wins but in their nearly 30 years in our league they have yet to win it and since expansion in 1985 they have just one S16 and nothing beyond that.
I'd say it's about to get ugly, but Kansas State is in the Elite 8 with an entire roster of transfers, so who knows. Building a program doesn't really matter anymore in basketballwhat is the difference between recruiting folks that are transfers and recruiting from high school
https://twitter.com/CJMangum_/status/1639344507421626369?s=20
I'd say it's about to get ugly, but Kansas State is in the Elite 8 with an entire roster of transfers, so who knows. Building a program doesn't really matter anymore in basketballI’ll be interested how that turns. If that’s a long term plan or a short term reality.
https://twitter.com/CJMangum_/status/1639344507421626369?s=20
Is it just plain impossible to win consistently at Penn State?Probably
They have a handful of NCAA appearances and even wins but in their nearly 30 years in our league they have yet to win it and since expansion in 1985 they have just one S16 and nothing beyond that.
No real movement yet from MSU.Entered the portal today
Joey Hauser could technically play a 6th year, but it seems like he's done.
The questions are whether Walker comes back for a 5th year, and who transfers out. There are two options, but it seems like true freshman PG Tre Holloman will return. I love his length and defensive ability, but I don't see a path for him as an offensive contributor. But it seems like he's returning.
My guess is Pierre Brooks is done. Early, when we had injuries, he was a shooting contributor, but he is as bad a defender as I've seen under Izzo, and his shooting fell off a cliff. There were 3 pretty similarly rated players in the in state 2019 class. I liked Jaden Akins the best, and he has proved to be the best defender by a mile. We'll see if he can take the next step offensively. I was glad not pursuing Bufkin, but he has developed into a better player than I assumed, and is likely now off to the NBA. But I put Brooks #2, and he won Mr. Basketball in the state. He scored 15+ points in 3 of MSUs first 7 games, and was getting 30+ minutes. But he hasn't made a basket since 2/4, and didn't play a minute in the tournament. He got 4 minutes in the BTT, but those were his first meaningful minutes since the February 7 win over Maryland. I'm guessing he's done. He could be a high volume scorer in the MAC
https://twitter.com/zach_edey/status/1640751037853171718?s=20Dakich is totally off the reservation at this point, I love that Zach responded 4 minutes after his tweet.
Dakich is totally off the reservation at this point, I love that Zach responded 4 minutes after his tweet.He has been for a decade
Dakich is totally off the reservation at this point, I love that Zach responded 4 minutes after his tweet.He was on notice because there was a fake tweet purporting to be from an ESPN writer that said the same thing.
I am curious for a few of your opinions that are non Purdue fans on what you think Paint should do with his philosophy, stay the course or make tweaks or significant change how the team looks. I have my opinion, but I will share that later as to not bias your feedback or thoughts, not that any of you would change an opinion because of what I say!I read an article on a Purdue site that I thought hit the nail on the head.
I am curious for a few of your opinions that are non Purdue fans on what you think Paint should do with his philosophy, stay the course or make tweaks or significant change how the team looks. I have my opinion, but I will share that later as to not bias your feedback or thoughts, not that any of you would change an opinion because of what I say!Gotta change this (class recruiting rankings per 247):
Gotta change this (class recruiting rankings per 247):2022: 14th in the B1G
- 2022: 6th in the B1G, 30th nationally
- 2021: 8th in the B1G, 41st nationally
- 2020: 6th in the B1G, 36th nationally
- 2019: 8th in the B1G, 57th nationally
- 2018: 9th in the B1G, 49th nationally
- 2017: 4th in the B1G, 34th nationally
- 2016: 13th in the B1G, 108th(!) nationally
- 2015: 7th in the B1G, 37th nationally
- 2014: 5th in the B1G, 33rd nationally
- 2013: 4th in the B1G, 28th nationally
- 2012: 5th in the B1G, 16th nationally
- 2011: 12th in the B1G, 92nd nationally
Basketball recruiting rankings is also kind of wonky, because they have to factor class size, but because of that, a 5 man, meh class frequently beats a good 2 man class. I think MSU's 2 man class of Jaren Jackson and Xavier Tillman was ranked in the 40sYes, but having consistently large recruiting classes means you're replacing guys that leave the program early. If that's due to them leaving for the NBA, it's evidence you're getting talent.
Yes, but having consistently large recruiting classes means you're replacing guys that leave the program early. If that's due to them leaving for the NBA, it's evidence you're getting talent.On the one hand, this is somewhat true.
Purdue and Wisconsin are recruiting four year players (sometimes 5 with redshirts), because they can't regularly get one and done or two and done guys.
Their smaller classes are then a symptom of less talent in general.
I also think, as efficient as Edey was, how did he only take 11 shots? FDU sold out to double him. He passes well out of the double team, and Purdue just missed a ton of open 3s.Fair point, his philosophy as I understand has been to recruit more shooters, unfortunately those shooters weren't making shots at the clip they are capable of this past year.
Yes, part of Izzo's tournament success is due to him being willing to lose games to find working combinations, but it's not like Purdue didn't know how to handle a defense selling out on Edey. They just missed a TON of shots.
Now, what might be on Painter's system is that he needs to just recruit shooters. He has an eye for big men, and can clearly develop them. So while Ivey was an elite player, he might be a less useful compliment than just a pure 3 and D guy. Maybe he needs to abandon recruiting athletic wings or true point guards, and just find 3 and D guys. Guys who can just hang around the line, and make teams pay for doubling down on his elite bigs.
I honestly don't mean this as a dig at Purdue and the FDU upset was bad regardless but does anyone else feel like Purdue this year wasn't quite up to typical #1 seed standards?Not a dig at all, I think this has merit. This team won, but didn't dominate people like you would have expected given their #1 ranking for a time. If Edey comes back next year, we make more 3's and limit turnovers, I love our chances.
I don't mean that they didn't "deserve" a #1 seed. Everything I saw/read at the time indicated that they were one of the top four teams this year. What I'm getting at is the "this year" part of that statement. Some years there are five or six teams playing at the level of a typical #1 seed and one or two of them get relegated to #2 and other years there are only two or three teams playing at the level of a typical #1 seed so the last spot or two gets filled with a team that maybe isn't quite as good as a typical #1 seed.
Not a dig at all, I think this has merit. This team won, but didn't dominate people like you would have expected given their #1 ranking for a time. If Edey comes back next year, we make more 3's and limit turnovers, I love our chances.This theory is kinda proven incorrect by the example I'm going to use but I've always thought, as a fan, that the teams with the best chance in March are the teams that have multiple ways to win.
Hunter Dickinson in the transfer portalWho's gonna touch that POS?
Who's gonna touch that POS?It will be interesting ... lot of talk around Caleb Love from NC as well ... my thought is you can have him. Ball dominant guard who is an inconsistent shooter and doesn't make great decisions and I would be cautious about chemistry as well after seeing NC crap the bed this year with significant talent (on paper)
hope it helps the big dance performance by the conferencewell it can't hurt, we set the bar pretty low this year to beat.
Seems like a short turn around. We were just there in 2019. And the 2020 and 2021 versions were fake. There has only been one tournament on Maui since MSU was last there
https://twitter.com/MSU_Basketball/status/1643288337162309632?t=yeBL6umORU62kQt5vlI02w&s=19
2023 Maui field is loaded as well:That's definitely a deeper field overall, but Chaminade preventing any team from going 0-3.
Gonzaga (https://gozags.com/sports/mens-basketball), Kansas (https://kuathletics.com/sports/mbball/), Marquette (https://gomarquette.com/sports/mens-basketball), Purdue (https://purduesports.com/sports/mens-basketball), Syracuse (https://cuse.com/sports/mens-basketball), Tennessee (https://utsports.com/sports/mens-basketball), UCLA (https://uclabruins.com/sports/mens-basketball) and Chaminade (https://goswords.com/sports/mens-basketball) will meet Nov. 20-22, 2023
Carr is the best athlete to enter MSU in a while. He plays at a high school that plays elite competition, but I'm concerned that every video of him is some insane breakaway dunk. That's all well and good, but (a) you aren't going to get those plays in the Big Ten; and (b) if you do, putting on a show is worth the same number of points as a layup.
This MSU class, ranked #3, is curious. Xavier Booker is the highest rated player. At one point he was #1. That never made sense. But even at #10ish, I think he's overrated. A decade ago? Sure. But he's kind of a tweener 4, without range. Not sure how he fits now. Then you have Carr, who, as said above, I have my concerns about. I think BY FAR, the best player in this class is Jeremy Fears. He is a tailor made Izzo PG, with a super high pedigree. He was one of the last kids picked to the McD AA game, but he's ranked generally in the 30s or 40s. I think he is an instant impact player, who can play behind Hoggard next year, then star the following year, then he's probably gone. I was actually a little surprised to see Tre Holloway return, because it feels like he is the clear #3 PG again next year. Fears is the #2 next year, and its his team in 2025. Then he's likely gone. That's a bold pick to call a kid in the 40s a 2 year player, but I think he's (a) underrated and (b) a perfect fit in this system, and will thrive. Even though he's the 3rd highest rated kid in this class, I think he'll be the best MSU player.
Tyler Wahl coming back to the Badgers. This season is far from a banner campaign, but he is a player you would rather have than not.I agree. Now let's see what kind of transfers Gard can muster.
Kyle Filipowski surprisingly announced he's returning to Duke for his sophomore season, and their top recruit immediately asked out of his LOI.Yeah they do, “Brother, get outta my way. I need some minutes.”
Do these guys not understand the Brotherhood?
Yeah they do, “Brother, get outta my way. I need some minutes.”Someone pointed out that when JJ Redick and Zion were both on the Pelicans, there's no way they realized they both went to Duke. There might be no school where calling it the Brotherhood is more laughable. The Hired Guns? Sure
well it can't hurt, we set the bar pretty low this year to beat.I've said it before, I'm going to say it again:
I don't know who this is, but here he isAthletic wing type. Pretty good shooter, decent creator. Averaged 8.8 points in 21.1 MPG as a true freshman.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1646665878279270401?t=3jZw1oTtMdiqDMYLY2nsDA&s=19
It has been a busy week in Nebrasketball with the transfers coming into the program. However, the big fish came on Friday when four start recruit Nick Janowski chose to play his collegiate career with the Cornhuskers.Wisconsin pulled his offer because they are waiting on bigger fish. Hope that does not turn into a mistake.
The new recruit is the number two player in the state of Wisconsin, the sixteenth best shooting guard in the nation, and the eightieth best player overall. While Fred has done a decent job assembling the future of the team, he has not had this high of a player commit in quite some time. Especially stealing one from the backyard of the Badgers who usually lock off their state to outside teams.
Nick is a 6’3” shooting guard from Pewaukee, Wisconsin. This past season he averaged 23.7 points and 6.6 rebounds, per game. All while averaging 55% from the floor and 41% from beyond the arch. Huge numbers for anyone in high school.
He chose Nebraska over the likes of Wisconsin, Marquette, Iowa State, and Iowa. He is Nebraska’s first commit in the 2024 recruiting class.
Michigan's top recruit asked to be released from his NLI. Rumored for a whileWho is this?
Who is this?Papa Kante.
Papa Kante.I saw on the national Rivals board (rumor: take with a grain of salt) that Kante was having issues getting admitted to Michigan. Something to do with the English courses (and the fact that English is not his primary language).
Leaves them with one recruit, and three transfers. One was a high volume, low efficiency scorer at UNC, who apparently slept with his fellow co-captains gf. One was a bench player at Seton Hall. One was a bench player at Alabama, who is now on his third school in three years.
Once again, Michigan majorly fumbled the bag in not firing Juwan for cause, and bringing back Beilein, who still lives in Ann Arbor
Wisconsin pulled his offer because they are waiting on bigger fish. Hope that does not turn into a mistake.They project to have a ton of seasoned returners his first year. I can see why he’d pick Neb.
Wyoming transfer Noah Reynolds backed out of his Wisconsin commitment. He had already signed but was apparently allowed out of his NLI.what do you make of this? Any issues or kid just changing his mind?
Ugh, crapBoooo this man.
https://twitter.com/booboo_buie/status/1655588853518934016?t=aBgTVItNrOZiHWy4SHYiLQ&s=19
what do you make of this? Any issues or kid just changing his mind?His brother got hired at another school. He’s following him.
I didn't see it mentioned here yet but Bronny James (LeBron's son) committed to USC so the circus will not be coming to Ohio State.
I'm not sure how to feel about this .
West Virginia coaching job may come openMight?
How to feel about Bronny to USC:Between a very good returning starter and a stud freshman coming in, the smart money is on the kid not starting. On the other hand, can’t say he is shying away from competition.
1. No coach save Calipari at Kentucky does less with more talent than Enfield at USC.
2. Bronny is good but not great. He's not a one-and-done level talent. Bronny might need several college years to develop into a prospect worth a 1st RD pick, and all of that to hopefully become draft-able as a likely role player off the bench.
3. The longer it takes for Bronny to ready for the NBA, the older his Dad gets. Age will soon catch up to Lebron and willing NBA teams won't be as excited or see the novelty in signing an AARP Lebron.
4. Bronny has nowhere near the imposing physical presence of his Dad. His measurables are a buzzkill for much of the NBA.
5. Bronny won't be the best on his team and might not begin next season ready enough to be a starter. However, Lebron didn't choose USC for his kid to check in from the bench. Bronny will soon start no matter how ready. Yes, Enfield will be dealing with a circus, both from the media and from the James family posturing Bronny for the NBA.
Might?It might. If they fire him I understand. If they don’t I’m ok with that, too. I just wish it had been Neal Brown who said it.
The fact that he said it twice doesn’t help his situation. Truth be told, he was probably liquored up when he said it. The worst kept secret in college basketball is Huggs has a drinking problem.Huggs is by all accounts a hell of a time. Can only imagine how he sounds in practice.
I’d hope an apology, suspension, and donation of some kind would be enough but I understand if it isn’t. If Juwan Howard can hit another coach and have to be restrained from doing it on another occasion and survive I’d like to think Huggs can survive this. But I also get the world we live in. Whatever WVU does I’ll understand and support.
Between a very good returning starter and a stud freshman coming in, the smart money is on the kid not starting.
Lebron didn't choose USC for his kid to come off the bench.That situation makes me think that he didn’t choose the school at all.
Lebron's money and the TV interest money is on Bronny starting, though maybe not right away.
I'd watch thatLoL, you beat me to it. When I read @MaximumSam (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1572) 's post I thought "I'd watch that" and was about to type it when I saw your post.
Huggs turns 70 this year. I'm mildly surprised he doesn't just retire. They should do a reality show on him going through sensitivity training.As soon as that part of the punishment was announced that was the general thought. Make it PPV and donate the money to an alphabet cause. I’d be all in.
5* SF, #10 player in the Class of 2023, Mackenzie Mgbako to Indiana.You talked about this a bit. What does this mean for Indiana's upcoming season and next season? Is this kid a one-and-done?
Apparently no Caleb Love for Michigan.Good on college players for getting what they can get, but I can't give a shit about college sports anymore. I'm all for all of the NIL money these kids can get, but combining it with the transfer portal has just turned it into a shitty version of the NFL/NBA
Good on college players for getting what they can get, but I can't give a shit about college sports anymore. I'm all for all of the NIL money these kids can get, but combining it with the transfer portal has just turned it into a shitty version of the NFL/NBAI mean, it seems he got turned away for academics. :)
Good on college players for getting what they can get, but I can't give a shit about college sports anymore. I'm all for all of the NIL money these kids can get, but combining it with the transfer portal has just turned it into a shitty version of the NFL/NBAI've been arguing for years with the "players should be payed" people. A) As a father who just sat down with the loan guys for my son to go to OSU, believe me, a full ride scholarship is the equivalent of getting paid.....ALOT and B) This was the obvious result: Bidding wars. You could see it coming from a mile away. The NCAA knew that this was going to be the result and fought tooth and nail over the years to prevent it, but once the supreme court ruled on it, there was nothing they could do. I honestly think that it is the beginning of the end of college sports as we know it.
The wife and I are going to attend the Fort Myers tipoff this season. The field is AMU, Virginia, West Virginia and Wisconsin.How can they make this work financially in an arena that small?
How can they make this work financially in an arena that small?They are doing travel packages, and they are not cheap.
I couldn't find a schedule online, which of the other three does Wisconsin open with?
If you've never been, check out Edison's winter house while you are there.
I've been arguing for years with the "players should be payed" people. A) As a father who just sat down with the loan guys for my son to go to OSU, believe me, a full ride scholarship is the equivalent of getting paid.....ALOT and B) This was the obvious result: Bidding wars. You could see it coming from a mile away. The NCAA knew that this was going to be the result and fought tooth and nail over the years to prevent it, but once the supreme court ruled on it, there was nothing they could do. I honestly think that it is the beginning of the end of college sports as we know it.It is one additional factor in me checking out of Purdue sports. I know our fan base doesn't have the stomach to compete here with the big boys of the world, so NIL is one more insulated pane in the glass ceiling of college sports that we'll NEVER break through.
I've been arguing for years with the "players should be payed" people. A) As a father who just sat down with the loan guys for my son to go to OSU, believe me, a full ride scholarship is the equivalent of getting paid.....ALOT and B) This was the obvious result: Bidding wars. You could see it coming from a mile away. The NCAA knew that this was going to be the result and fought tooth and nail over the years to prevent it, but once the supreme court ruled on it, there was nothing they could do. I honestly think that it is the beginning of the end of college sports as we know it.The full ride is getting paid thing is sort of a false equivalency. I once had a job that gave out car wash coupons.
The full ride is getting paid thing is sort of a false equivalency. I once had a job that gave out car wash coupons.Wait, did they only pay you in coupons, or was that just a bonus thing?
They were nice and ended with my car getting a cleaning I’d never pay for. But if a $500 bonus was paid in coupons, even if it was $1,000 worth of them, it ain’t the same thing.
(as for the end of the sport, this is the logical end of all of it. It’s a sport built on being inherently “unfair.” This puts more of that in the light, but doesn’t change the reality)
As for NIL, is there some database out there that shows how much each school has in the coffers?It gets weird. I heard Mizzou is surprisingly competent.
I hear things like "Kentucky has a ton of NIL to offer" and I wonder if that's real. Same goes for Purdue, and the "we don't have anything to offer" statements.
Terrance Shannon Jr and Coleman Hawkins pull out of the draft and will return to Illinois.Hawkins is such a weird player. Although I think he does have much more potential than he’s shown.
Illinois still needs a veteran PG.
Yeah, I don't think he can survive any longer.I’m unclear why a person that rich ever feels the need to get behind the wheel like that.
I’m unclear why a person that rich ever feels the need to get behind the wheel like that.I thought he had a driver so I’m not exactly sure why he was behind the wheel. Huggs always had a problem with alcohol. I heard too many stories over the years from friends of friends about his drinking exploits.
he could be tired of the BS for nowHe’s done. He is getting ready to turn 70, looks very unhealthy, and has more baggage now. I hope he gets some help.
could resurface later with another opportunity
or he could simply retire quite comfortably
he could be tired of the BS for nowThe BS?
could resurface later with another opportunity
or he could simply retire quite comfortably
The BS?Probably meant NIL stuff, the portal, and having to recruit your own players every year.
I thought he had a driver so I’m not exactly sure why he was behind the wheel. Huggs always had a problem with alcohol. I heard too many stories over the years from friends of friends about his drinking exploits.
I’m honestly a little surprised he kept his nose clean 15 years here before it caught up to him.
Probably meant NIL stuff, the portal, and having to recruit your own players every year.yup, all the crap head coaches have to put up with
My guess is Huggins had a driver in Morgantown but if he just up and drove to Pittsburgh on his own who was going to stop him? My guess is Huggins didn't keep his nose clean in Morgantown but as long as his antics were cotained to the college town (like Bloomington, Ames, Tuscaloosa, State College, Blacksburg, etc) a lot can be swept under the gravel.Lot of high-functioning alcoholics in that profession, without much talking about it.
Heard snippets of Holgersen having an outsized drinking problem as well. Maybe Wren Baker should keep a breathalyzer in his jacket pocket during coaching interviews. Last week saw Walgreens cheapest model was $18.
Lot of high-functioning alcoholics in that profession, without much talking about it.yer high functioning, or yer not in the field for long
I like that he thought he was in Columbus.And the last thing he could remember was his lunch at Burger King 7 hours prior
Rumors that Beilein is headed to Morgantown.I don’t think that is going to happen.
That screws up my succession plan for tOSU and likely deprives Michigan of their escape plan in the not unlikely event that Howard does something they are unable to overlook.
If you want to read something truly cringeworthy Huggs’ daughter offered this up today. It’s the textbook example of an enabler.It felt boilerplate until the recycling thing. That’s a deeply in denial thing to write.
https://twitter.com/eers_b12c/status/1671239343187394561?s=46&t=Aj0dZ_G1Ffu5Evn4MdVB7w
I don’t think that is going to happen.Understand that I don't mean this to be argumentative. I assume that you know a lot more about WVU's decision here than I do, so I'm just curious. Why not?
Understand that I don't mean this to be argumentative. I assume that you know a lot more about WVU's decision here than I do, so I'm just curious. Why not?Only because what I’m reading is WVU wants to go ahead and get someone long term. There has been some talk of getting someone (like Beilein) who has some name value just to keep the crop of impressive transfers Huggs assembled over the last couple months together and try to make a run this year. But, again, I’m hearing the leadership wants to get someone who may be there 5, 8, 10 years.
From my outside perspective it would make a lot of sense. If this were my school I'd think it would be great to bring in an available guy who had a successful previous run with the program.
I realize that, given Beilein's age it is not a longterm solution but, if this were tOSU and I was AD, I'd bring him in then start working on hiring an up-and-coming assistant as a Head Coach In Waiting.
Only because what I’m reading is WVU wants to go ahead and get someone long term. There has been some talk of getting someone (like Beilein) who has some name value just to keep the crop of impressive transfers Huggs assembled over the last couple months together and try to make a run this year. But, again, I’m hearing the leadership wants to get someone who may be there 5, 8, 10 years.Thank you for the insight. Not what I would do if I were in the WVU AD's shoes but I can understand the thinking behind it.
Understand that I don't mean this to be argumentative. I assume that you know a lot more about WVU's decision here than I do, so I'm just curious. Why not?FWIW, Beilein as an option seems to have some legs to it now. We’ll see I guess.
From my outside perspective it would make a lot of sense. If this were my school I'd think it would be great to bring in an available guy who had a successful previous run with the program.
I realize that, given Beilein's age it is not a longterm solution but, if this were tOSU and I was AD, I'd bring him in then start working on hiring an up-and-coming assistant as a Head Coach In Waiting.
I kind of hope Ohio State sucks. Just because I would like them to reset.My fear is that they'll return to Holtmann years 2-5 normal of being not quite good enough for anyone to care about (or even notice) Ohio State Basketball and yet not quite bad enough to make the necessity of a coaching change obvious enough that Gene Smith can't ignore it.
My fear is that they'll return to Holtmann years 2-5 normal of being not quite good enough for anyone to care about (or even notice) Ohio State Basketball and yet not quite bad enough to make the necessity of a coaching change obvious enough that Gene Smith can't ignore it.The hope is he's Dan Hurley. He could be Fran McCaffery
As a long-term Ohio State fan who was a fan through many coaches before this and will be a fan through many coaches after this I want this year's team to either be great or awful.
It's tough to get a blue blood home and home unless you are a blue blood or in the next tier below. Even then it's tough.Definitely agreed, that is why I phrased it as:
For the H&H OOC games, I'd obviously take BB Blue Bloods (UK, UNC, Dook, KU) if I could get them.In Carolina's case I'd offer a FB H&H in exchange for something like two or three BB H&H's, maybe Kentucky also.
I would think that any of those 15 would be at least somewhat interested in a H&H with Ohio State.
- Notre Dame
- Oklahoma
- Arkansas
- Florida
- Clemson
- Bama
- Texas
- Tennessee (some postseason history in both sports)
- Syracuse
- LSU
- FSU
- Auburn
- Miami, FL
- aTm
- Washington
The hope is he's Dan Hurley. He could be Fran McCafferyHurley just won an NC in year five at UCONN. Holtmann lost in the first weekend of the NCAA tournament in year five then missed the dance altogether in year six and is coming back for year seven. I understand what you meant, but he's already three years behind schedule to be Hurley.
Hurley just won an NC in year five at UCONN. Holtmann lost in the first weekend of the NCAA tournament in year five then missed the dance altogether in year six and is coming back for year seven. I understand what you meant, but he's already three years behind schedule to be Hurley.I know, but it shows the crapshoot we are in. Hurley was by your logic a failed coach after four years. He parlayed a good but not great regular seasons into two first round losses in the tourney for a historically great program. He even followed that up with a pretty lackluster conference season this year. Then they dominated the tourney.
I know, but it shows the crapshoot we are in. Hurley was by your logic a failed coach after four years. He parlayed a good but not great regular seasons into two first round losses in the tourney for a historically great program. He even followed that up with a pretty lackluster conference season this year. Then they dominated the tourney.I 100% agree that it is a crapshoot.
FWIW, Beilein as an option seems to have some legs to it now. We’ll see I guess.https://www.si.com/college/westvirginia/basketball/john-beilein-nearly-returned-to-west-virginia
Attendance is down because nobody is nor has any reason to be excited about the program and team and it is time to stop digging.I wanted to highlight this point. Ultimately, this more than anything else will determine Holtmann's fate. If Gene Smith can't move BB tickets, he'll have to make a move.
Torvik's early preseason (https://www.insidethehall.com/2023/05/26/a-first-look-at-where-each-big-ten-team-stands-in-bart-torviks-projections-for-the-2023-24-season/) projections:only if the Mayor can figure out & run double and triple screens for Tominaga
- #6 Michigan State
- #23 Purdue
- #25 Indiana
- #27 Wisconsin
- #28 Northwestern
- #37 Maryland
- #41 Ohio State
- #44 Iowa
- #46 Nebraska
That suggests that I *should* pick Ohio State to finish 11th in the league (ahead of only PSU, MN, and M) but I always assume that out of 14 teams, crazy things will happen with at least some of them so I'll say 9th place and on the NCAA Bubble.I honestly did this BEFORE I ran the tiers but based on my projected tiers, I have Ohio State finishing 9-11 and tied for 7th/8th/9th in the league.
only if the Mayor can figure out & run double and triple screens for TominagaMan I hate that kid.
I doubt it
Gotta love Medina's exhaustive basketball posts. It's June. Over four months away from basketball season, with football season ahead of us, and nearly everyday I can read an entertainingly thorough post anticipating the upcoming season. The other day I read a post detailing the Big Ten's potential bubble teams. And it's only July tomorrow. This past season I actually started streaming Buckeyes games because Medina's Holtmann posts made OSU intriguing enough to follow.Since I no longer pay attention to college sports, I've been out of the loop.
Gotta love Medina's exhaustive basketball posts. It's June. Over four months away from basketball season, with football season ahead of us, and nearly everyday I can read an entertainingly thorough post anticipating the upcoming season. The other day I read a post detailing the Big Ten's potential bubble teams. And it's only July tomorrow. This past season I actually started streaming Buckeyes games because Medina's Holtmann posts made OSU intriguing enough to follow.Now that is funny!
Since I no longer pay attention to college sports, I've been out of the loop.Maybe they'll pull a Virginia!
I need @medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) to provide his breakdown of exactly how Purdue basketball is going to rip their fans' hearts out this year. They already did the #1 losing to #16, so they've set the bar high.
Maybe they'll pull a Virginia!That's what I was gonna say.
Maybe they'll pull a Virginia!
That's what I was gonna say.Clearly you don't know what it means to be a Boilermaker. You still have "hope".
I'm bullish for UW this year. I think they are much better than they get credit for.I think they make the tournament, after that, not super sure about much.
They should be able to go 10 deep, maybe 9. Last year was more like 6-7. Sounds like all 3 of the freshmen are coming in ready to play. It will be interesting.
What say you @bayareabadger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1571) ?
I'm thinking Klesmit is gonna be man 6. Maybe even Essegian or Storr.In terms of who starts, I do to. In part because I think he's the one with the least ego about it. I also think you're gonna end up with a kinda balanced set of minutes between those three. Unless Essegian or Storr go supernova.
OSU needs to up the schedule game, for sure.I don't disagree but, in defense of my school, this schedule probably isn't abnormally lightweight. Here are Ohio State's eleven (there are 12 because Oregon/Santa Clara is an either/or) sorted by their final 2023 NET rankings:
If we want to get NET rankings for all B1G OOC opponents, I'll compile a list but I'm not looking up 11 or 12 opponents each for 13 more teams.
I read that UW is not gonna play UWGB or Milwaukee any time soon. Might be some bad blood there.I tried to look this up for Wisconsin but the only announced OOC games that I saw were:
But that top of the list is solid.I agree, the top end is really solid with games against #2 Bama, #4 UCLA, #24 WVU, #28 aTm, and either #45 Oregon or #87 Santa Clara. However there is no "middle" and six games against punching bags does seem excessive as BAB said:
It gets weird at the bottom because you’re trying to decide if there’s that much difference between six or four or five body bag games. Like, four is low. Six is a tad high.Part of the problem is that Ohio State, probably mostly coincidentally, is playing three of last year's four worst MAC teams. Here are the final NET rankings for the MAC:
I tried to look this up for Wisconsin but the only announced OOC games that I saw were:Not yet. Those usually come out in the month of July/August. Probably 4 body bags.
- #5 Tennessee at home
- #10 Arizona away
- #12 Marquette at home
- #51 Providence away Gavitt
Then, within theGavitt GamesFort Myers Tipoff apparently the Badgers will play two out of three of #24 WVU, #29 UVA, and #209 SMU They start with UVA in that one. WVU gets SMU. I'll probably be at those games.
Do you @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) or @bayareabadger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1571) know who the rest of UW's OOC opponents are going to be?
I read that UW is not gonna play UWGB or Milwaukee any time soon. Might be some bad blood there.I know UWM has been sort of run badly, and the Jeter thing left a bad taste. They also maybe tried to flex in terms of asking for more money.
I feel like UW at four bad opponents is lower than normal. Was last year and became a dumb talking point for some.I think you have a good point, in the NET era the relative quality of your bad opponents matters less. There are the Quads, of course, but it seems like most of the discussion around that concerns:
In any case, Medina is right, many fewer middle class teams. I think some of that is that if you are gonna get a team you should beat that no one has heard of, might as well be a bad one. Also, bad teams often take a little less money.
It’s the opposite of the RPI era, where the difference between 200 and 300 was significant in ratings, win or lose.
I have no idea what West Virginia will end up looking like, any thoughts @Kris60 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=79) ?
🤔🤔🤔It’s insane and we are watching a guy who was probably the most beloved figure in the state flushing his goodwill down the toilet one stupid decision at a time. The biggest attribute that Huggs had going for him was he was one of “us.” He seemingly loved the state and the school. He wanted to be here. He didn’t view it as a shithole that he had to put up with for a few years to advance his career. Turning this into a circus that was all his doing seems to counteract that sentiment to me.
https://twitter.com/HoppyKercheval/status/1677853009496113152
he might have a legit beef with someone up the ladder and just wants to cause some trouble on his way outIt’s no big secret that he doesn’t get along with the school president, Gordon Gee. And there is a large portion of the fanbase that is ready for Gee to leave, too. But there is just no excuse for doing this. He’s just embarrassing himself and the school he professed to love and turning it into a big joke. He’s pulling a George Costanza where he quits and then tries to come back to work.
or maybe it's not legit
He hasn't made enough money?Could always use another mil.
Come on dude. Just go away.
Whatever happens, Huggs continues to torpedo his reputation in a state that really did love him.In the end, isn't that the most Huggs move of all?
Maybe...basketball rosters are very difficult to predict year to year, so foolish to even try. Right now, next season looks to be far and away his most talented and experienced roster.I hope you are onto something since I'm pretty sure we are stuck with Holtmann for the next two seasons.
I hope you are onto something since I'm pretty sure we are stuck with Holtmann for the next two seasons.Also, I think they should be a fairly fun team if they stay healthy. They should be a more complete team than they have been lately - an actual point guard and center, for one. Not sure Key and Okpara can play together. They are pretty young, though, so that always makes things dicey.
Pretty safe to say I've commented way too much on this. After I typed "stuck with" in the above sentence, my phone suggested "Holtmann" as the next word.
I hope you are onto something since I'm pretty sure we are stuck with Holtmann for the next two seasons.Small thought.
Pretty safe to say I've commented way too much on this. After I typed "stuck with" in the above sentence, my phone suggested "Holtmann" as the next word.
Small thought.I'm not sure how I could best accomplish that but it probably isn't necessarily at this point. I'm resigned to the situation for at least this season.
Is there a specific post we could link to with the whole OSU success history thing? Maybe just to cut down on clutter. I appreciate what you do, but the math stays relatively the same, and we're finding a lot of ways to say the lack of league titles or Sweet 16s isn't acceptable. And I keep seeing a long post and not being sure if there will be something revelatory or the same batch of info.
Why?From the article:
Because all the other sports don't earn the $$$
$6.2 for basketball???Some football coaches aren't as successful as Ben Johnson, much less Tom Izzo.
some football coaches don't make that much
the less than successful football coach brings more money to the athletic dept than the successful basketball coachYou're just salty because your school doesn't even play basketball.
kind of, not directly because of his success or lack there of
The old 16 team Big East didn't include all teams, correct?Welcome back @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) !
I wonder if this gets us back tonight the top 12 making it.
If not, I think you have #13-#20 playing Tuesday, with the 4 winners playing #9-#12 on Wednesday, then those 4 winners playing #5-#8 on Thursday, with those 4 winners joining #1-#4 for an 8 team tournament starting Friday
I think they should have basketball divisions. PAC 4 + UNL, Iowa, Minnie, UW and IL.Well:
How many schools do we have now? 18?
Ummm...11/24 Fri, vs #21 Bama in Niceville, FL (
@847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) and @Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595) can go watch)[/list]
Ummm...I honestly didn't even know where Niceville was. I thought it was on the peninsula not way up on the panhandle. Geez, that tOSU/Bama game is more-or-less a Bama home game since Niceville is 4.5 hours from Tuscaloosa and less than an hour from the Alabama state line.
(https://i.imgur.com/2B2UzbE.png)
Add another 2.5 hours for MDot or HB.
You can get there in 13 hours.
Pretty much a Bama home game.That is true. There are probably not a lot of Bama fans willing to spend the day between Thanksgiving and the Iron Bowl driving 4+ hours each way for a BB game.
Might not be many people there with The Game and Iron Bowl going on the very next day. Not to mention Thanksgiving.
Ummm...There is so much effin Florida
(https://i.imgur.com/2B2UzbE.png)
Add another 2.5 hours for MDot or HB.
You can get there in 13 hours.
There is so much effin FloridaI was talking to a buddy up North last weekend who has not visited. He said he could make to Florida in 12 hours. And I said, sure, just in time to check into a hotel so you can drive to my house the next day in 6 hours.
I was talking to a buddy up North last weekend who has not visited. He said he could make to Florida in 12 hours. And I said, sure, just in time to check into a hotel so you can drive to my house the next day in 6 hours.I've driven to Key West twice. The Florida Welcome Center (free OJ!) is barely over half way.
I was talking to a buddy up North last weekend who has not visited. He said he could make to Florida in 12 hours. And I said, sure, just in time to check into a hotel so you can drive to my house the next day in 6 hours.In college, we went to Orlando for a bowl.
I like that starting lineup, but very poor depth. I don't have a lot of confidence in Holtmann, but this could be a fringe tournament team if they avoid injuries. As usual, they'll probably get me very excited in November and December, then rip the rug in January.This is exactly where I'm at. The only confidence I have in this staff is that I'm fairly confident they'll inexplicably crater and just woefully suck for basically the month of January.
That is true. There are probably not a lot of Bama fans willing to spend the day between Thanksgiving and the Iron Bowl driving 4+ hours each way for a BB game.Questions for @rolltidefan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=12) and @Gigem (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1706) :
That is a LONG drive from SW or S FL, where most of the retirees live.True but if I lived where you live or say in Sarasota where my grandparents spent their winters my choices to see an Ohio State BB game are that or fly to Columbus.
It's 8 hours from Orlando even. That's driving straight through, which nobody does.
Questions for @rolltidefan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=12) and @Gigem (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1706) :i have no idea what to expect. there's 3 players returning with any experience that matters. only 1 was starter. sears (starter), pringle, and griffen. pringle is a super athletic big man, but last year was just short of putting it together to dominate. i'm hoping he makes same strides in offseason that prior big men have done under oats. griffen was a good sub off bench last year, not sure what his role will be this year though. sears was, imo, the most important player for bama last year in terms of judging success in individual games. miller was obviously the best player and most important in that regard, but if you wanted to see when we struggled, look at sears stats. sears had a bad game, we had a bad game. can't say the same about miller. at least not as consistently. problem with sears is he was really streaky. good thing was he usually fell into that streak at some point during most games. he'd go 10 minutes into second half before getting a point, then before you know it have 12-15. has the talent to take over games, but also lacked maturity to get dirty points when things weren't clicking.
How do you realistically expect your teams to look this season?
The aTm game is on a Friday in early November and in Columbus so I'm not expecting more than a handful of Aggies but, am I wrong there?
What about Bama? That game is at 7pm on the Friday of Thanksgiving weekend and it is conveniently located for a lot of Bama fans in the Florida panhandle.
It would be a reasonable drive for a lot of Bama fans but OTOH it is the day between Thanksgiving and the Iron Bowl so who knows.
I'm truly curious what the crowd mix will be for that game. There are a lot of retired Ohioans in Florida for whom that would be the easiest game of the year to attend.
For UW, Peacock gets the following:They are putting a lot of good games on Peacock
Tennessee at Wisconsin
Michigan State at Wisconsin
Ohio State at Wisconsin
Maryland at Wisconsin
Wisconsin at Indiana
That's a lot of good content right there.
I guess I'm keeping it until the end of February.I'm not going to buy it for football. I'll listen to that one game on the radio but I might get it for BB season.
I think Gus Bus is gonna be really good.My main question for him will be defense.
I see people say "well I'll just go to a bar and watch". (That's assuming the bar even has Peacock)I need to reach out to my alumni watch group for this weekend. They’re not organized, and this could go sideways.
Going to a bar (alone) to watch costs more than 5 months * $5.99/month = $29.95.
Friggin' burgers are $15+ now at bars.
I got Peacock.
If you can, wait until Black Friday and look for sales. We just cancelled Peacock which we had gotten last October, at I think $15 for the full year, because they had a promotion going. My wife's friend got it Black Friday and I think a whole year was even cheaper than that.I'll watch for that.
Looks like if you're a Spectrum customer they've got special deals as well, possibly also Cox...
I see people say "well I'll just go to a bar and watch". (That's assuming the bar even has Peacock)yes, but I go to bars anyway, so...
Going to a bar (alone) to watch costs more than 5 months * $5.99/month = $29.95.
Friggin' burgers are $15+ now at bars.
I got Peacock.
yes, but I go to bars anyway, so...I enjoyed Upstream Brewing Company when I was there...
I'll be in a bar in the Old Market area of Omaha with my brother for the Friday night Husker game at Illinois.
And then most of the afternoon Saturday
I enjoyed Upstream Brewing Company when I was there...I like Upstream. Should visit again.
...probably not the best place to order Bud Fat tho.
So Kansas had to vacate some appearances and now MSU has the longest streak of appearances so long as Kansas' vacated appearances are not counted?Yup
YupOk, thanks.
Gonzaga's streak doesn't really impress me because I think my local High School would have made most of yhe last 20-some NCAA Tournaments if they played in Gonzaga's league.It’s cool you have a local high school that’s better than half the college programs in the country.
It’s cool you have a local high school that’s better than half the college programs in the country.Obviously my post was an exaggeration but so is yours.
Is OSU getting a lot of kids from there.
(https://i.imgur.com/tbxjCVp.png)Initial tiers, proposal:
5. MNYou are probably right.
Obviously my post was an exaggeration but so is yours.You seem to misunderstand.
Gonzaga doesn't have to be better than "half the college programs in the country" to win their conference. They only have to be better than the other programs that make up their league and those are not very impressive:Yes, I was exaggerating but the fact that Gonzaga plays in a crap league remains. For comparison here are the number of NET top-68 teams from serious leagues:
- 2019 only two of their teams were in the top-68 per NET and that includes Gonzaga so to win the league they only had to beat out one decent team.
- 2021 three of their teams were in the top-68 per NET. That includes #1 Gonzaga along with #20 and #62 so they only had to beat out one, MAYBE two decent teams.
- 2022 was a surprisingly good year for them, they had four in the top-68 so Gonzaga had to beat out three decent teams. Gonzaga was #1, the others were #19, #28, and #50.
- 2023 only two of their teams were in the top-68 per NET and that includes Gonzaga so to win the league they only had to beat out one decent team.
Playing a good team in the WCC is a rarity. If you are Gonzaga it is even rarer because you don't have to play yourself. They have only a handful of league games annually against competent teams. The rest of their league games are the equivalent to the crap early-season OOC games that we complain our teams play too many of.
- 2023: B12 10/10, B1G 11/14, SEC 9/14, ACC 7/15, B-East 5/11, P12 5/12
- 2022: B12 9/10, SEC 9/14, B-East 7/11, B1G 8/14, P12 5/12, ACC 6/15
- 2021: B1G 10/14, B12 7/10, SEC 9/14, ACC 9/15, B-East 6/11, P12 5/12
- 2019: B12 8/10, B1G 11/14, SEC 9/14, ACC 9/15, B-East 6/10, P12 4/12
You seem to misunderstand.Gonzaga's and Michigan State's accomplishment is a completely different type.
There are 30-plus conferences. The WCC is usually the 10th to 12th best. If you looks at the 18-20 or so below them, none have some team stringing together 10 trips in a row, let alone 20.
But how can that be? A high school team in a weak conference could make the dance all the time in the WCC. Yet somehow, it’s not happening anywhere else.I already conceded that the HS thing was an exaggeration.
Initial tiers, proposal:Based on where the gaps are...Thoughts?
- PU, MSU
- UMD, IL, UW, IU
- tOSU, NU, IA, RU
- M, UNL, PSU, MN
How long is Izzo going to stay and is there a succession plan? If I am reading it right, the upcoming 23/24 season will be his 29th at the helm in East Lansing (I was a student at Ohio State when he took over in EL) and he'll turn 69 about mid season (January 30).ELA?
Based on where the gaps are...You know how we elevate MSU as basically the "Izzo bump" because we all think Izzo is a great coach so we just assume that MSU will be better than expected?
1-Purdue, MSU
2-Maryland, Illinois
3-Wisconsin, Indiana, OSU
4-NW, Iowa, Rutgers, Michigan
5-Nebraska, PSU
6-Minnesota
ELA?It certainly doesn't seem imminent, but these things can change quickly.
It certainly doesn't seem imminent, but these things can change quickly.That makes a lot of sense in terms of legacy. As a fan of a B1G Program but not a fan of either of the programs that these guys coached, I'd put him next to Bob Knight as the best two B1G BB coaches within my memory*. I was curious so I checked Wiki to compare:
He'd never admit it, but I think winning a second national title is extremely important to him.
What I can't stand about Gonzaga is that nobody seems to consider the pathetic weakness of their schedule. They play a few top teams early but overall their OOC isn't usually much better than the other top teams. The difference is that the other top teams spend their conference seasons playing good teams week in and week out. Gonzaga spends their conference seasons fattening up on cupcakes.What I really can't stand is grown adults who can't seem to express relatively mundane sports opioions without tearing down good teams and sh%&$ing on college kids.
What I really can't stand is grown adults who can't seem to express relatively mundane sports opioions without tearing down good teams and sh%&$ing on college kids.If there are any Gonzaga players here, I extend my apologies to them and urge them to get out of here and go to class/practice. Everyone else can deal with it.
Here's a simple, grown up way to express that sentiment:For that reason, the part of their schedule that I mainly object to is the part that the school can control. Their OOC last year included:
"I think that while college sports claims to be level in some way, ultimately, we know it's not, and strength of schedule needs to carry much more weight than it does. It's true that a team has only so much control there, but ultimately, I just don't care. If the Boston Celtics played in the A10, then by God, they should be capped at around a 7 seed. That's just how it should be."
If there are any Gonzaga players here, I extend my apologies to them and urge them to get out of here and go to class/practice. Everyone else can deal with it.For that reason, the part of their schedule that I mainly object to is the part that the school can control. Their OOC last year included:Portland State was part of the Nike event, so not in their control, really.
- Eastern Oregon which is so far down that ESPN doesn't even have a link for them, Div 3?
- UNF, finished 7th in the ASUN
- Portland State, finished 7th in the Bsky
- Kent, 2nd MAC
- NIU, 6th MAC
- Montana, 4th Bsky
This would be fine for Michigan State, Kansas, or Kentucky because those teams will balance that off with legitimate challenges in almost every league game. Gonzaga does not have that. In a given year they'll have a handful of legitimate challenges in their league and the rest of their league games will be equivalent to the crappy early OOC games that most of us complain about our teams playing.
When you absolutely know, year in and year out that your league will not even come remotely close to measuring up to the serious BB leagues and you want to be treated like a serious BB power, you should schedule an insanely challenging OOC to make up for your insanely weak conference.
I honest think their scheduling hurts their Tournament performance because generally by the time they get to the NCAA they end up seeing serious opposition for (almost) the first time in three months.
Portland State was part of the Nike event, so not in their control, really.The difference with those 20 worse leagues is that none of them have a team even remotely similar to Gonzaga in terms of reputation and "name".
The other five, well that comes down to what you want to be, a real basketball program, or a Medina-satisfying machine. You need some home games. Basketball teams are theoretically for home fans to see. Real teams almost exclusively don’t want to go there and don’t see profit on doing so.
Again, there is a perfectly easy way to say you think their ceiling should be limited without getting worked up and pissing all over them. Also, insanely seems a little strong. There’s a whole world of CBB out there. Shoot, there’s more than 20 worse leagues.
I so hope Purdue and Kansas square off in the finals of the Maui Invitational ... would love to stick it up hiss ass.What is your expectation for Purdue this year?
What is your expectation for Purdue this year?I am bullish, I think we will be better than last year, I think our 3 point shooting will be better (that will be key because people are going to load up on Edey) and we have added some nice athleticism into the mix with 4 star freshman, a redshirt freshman and a transfer, all 3 are athetotic and can shoot. Painter's biggest challenge is minutes, we are deep, but there are only so many minutes that can be played. I expect our freshman guards from last year to take a step forward in Year 2. You are going to see Smith be more aggressive, you are going to see more pick n roll with Zach. This team has something to prove, they have good kids and good leaders on the team. Their non con schedule is strong. It all comes down to 3 point shooting in the end I think, if we can shoot better people will face a problem of come out and guard and let Zach eat or give up open 3s.
As an outsider my impression is that Edey returning makes them a threat to anybody but if they can't get improved production from the other four spots, their ceiling is limited.
What is your expectation for Purdue this year?Look like a top-five team in February.
Look like a top-five team in February.Eh, it could be worse. I started this thread with this:
Epic flameout in March.
(Just like every year.)
Same as last year:At least your team wins league titles and gets high NCAA seeds. Additionally, if my team breaks their pattern it means a S16 or *MAYBE* an E8. If yours breaks their pattern it means an F4 or *MAYBE an NC.
I'll start with a prediction for my team:
In the2022-20232023-2024 season the Buckeyes will finish at least three games out of the B1G Championship and their season will end before the second weekend of the NCAA tournament.
If the job was to be great out of the gate, you clearly haven't paid attention to the past 25 yearsI get it. Msu is always better in March, but the early season losses have usually been to the big boys. Msu (to their credit) has always scheduled really tough early season games. They often lose them, but are at least competitive.
James Madison was the best rated team on the slate last night. Tough to win when you brick so many threes. Was a bit surprised Coen Carr was the main freshman. Booker played benchwarmer minutes.Booker was the least ready of the big three freshmen, so that wasn't totally crazy that he'd get fewer minutes. But for neither him or Fears to play in the second half while Hall and Hoggard were a combined 4-22 and 0-8 on 3s made no sense. Hall was absolutely abysmal on both ends of the court.
I don't know that looking ahead is even a thing anymore. Basketball has become a lot more homogeneous - tough to make any statement about one particular game. Also I didn't watch because it was on BTN+.College is mimicking what the analytics have told NBA teams to do. Mid majors always sort of did it, simply like how mid major college football teams ran weird offenses, because you aren't going to beat a more talented team in phone booth.
The main concern was probably Oakland shooting 40 percent from 3. Hard to win if you give that up.
You had ONE job sparty!JMU stole their signs. Only explanation.
:wtf:
He would trade 3s for 2s with Shaq all day, while denying 3s himselfYou should do stand-up.
If they're not valuable and no one has any, that's an inefficiency waiting to be exploited.Shaq was impressive physically and it would be hard for Wemby to keep him away from the basket, but Shaq would also get embarrassed trying to guard him. Hey here's Zach Edey except a guard - that's Wembanyama.
20 year-old Shaq would embarrass Wompneyamendola or whatever his name is.
If they're not valuable and no one has any, that's an inefficiency waiting to be exploited.So you both said you don't care about basketball, and are ready to exploit an inefficiency that no NBA team has realized.
20 year-old Shaq would embarrass Wompneyamendola or whatever his name is.
And 20 year old Shaq would be pissed that nobody told him that 3 > 2
Just a notice about the cultural divide between the B1G and SEC.....ya'll got 27 pages of basketball talk.....in early November. Know how many pages the SEC thread has???I don’t think you know what a Shawn Bradley is.
None.
Because there isn't one.
.
There's football and then spring football, people!!!
And today, basketball is all about a 7'4" beanpole in San Antonio that Shaq would turn into Shawn Bradley.
But I digress.
The fact that Auburn is good is what is wrong with basketball. The point of basketball was to try to create the easiest shot. Then, it was too collapsed, so they added the 3 point line to space things. But it's become so easy, that the game has rewarded making bad long shots over well designed close shots. It would be like if football rewarded plays based on how far you were from the goal line. Imagine taking a loss, to get behind the 20, because a score from there is worth more. That's what basketball did, and the risk is undervalued vs. the reward (I think), or maybe everyone has just grown up basing their game off shooting 3sThe three point line is the most successful gimmick in the history of sports
Tennessee rolls into Madison on Friday. Catch it live on Pee Cock!!I actually might be able to watch because it is on 🦚 right after aTm at tOSU
I knew that Purdue had a decently tough schedule this year, but I just took a good look at it (and looked at the current, albeit early, Pomeroy rankings of each).Purdue has the toughest schedule in the league this year.
They are hard scheduled to play:
Xavier (39)
Gonzaga (5)
Alabama (10)
Arizona (6)
And then depending on the results of the Maui games, potentially:
Tennessee (9) or Syracuse (109)
Kansas (3) (or UCLA (26) / Marquette (13))
All the other Non-con games are against teams that are in the 250 range or better. No 300+ games.
And to top it off, they only get the three (currently rated) worst Big Ten teams (Nebraska, Penn State, and Minnesota) once.
By my count, they have the potential to play 5 top 10 teams and 14 teams in the 11-50 range.
In fact, looking at the overall schedule, as of this moment, Purdue potentially only plays 5 games out of 31 that are not against top 100 teams. That's just insane.
And as a bonus, throw in the fact that they played an exhibition game against Arkansas (12) on the road....
wow.. that's a no joke SOS. They also have the talent win a lot of those big games.
They are hard scheduled to play:
Xavier (39)
Gonzaga (5)
Alabama (10)
Arizona (6)
And then depending on the results of the Maui games, potentially:
Tennessee (9) or Syracuse (109)
Kansas (3) (or UCLA (26) / Marquette (13))
I don’t think you know what a Shawn Bradley is.Then ELA is pushing back on that unremarkable statement, lol.
Also, rambling that on of the best 15 players of all time would do a number on someone is … kinda unremarkable. You know, I bet Michael Jordan would do quite a number on Scoot Henderson too.
Even Orlando Magic Shaq never hit a 3 or guarded a guy who could. It's apples and oranges.If the other team's offense relies on their 7'4" guy chucking 3s......you let them.
But like I said, it's like complaining that Caleb Williams couldn't run the wishbone
If the other team's offense relies on their 7'4" guy chucking 3s......you let them.Shaq needs to make 15 twos for every 10 of Wemby's threes to keep even
Meanwhile, if they have him guard Shaq on defense, he'd fouling out A LOT.
If the other team's offense relies on their 7'4" guy chucking 3s......you let them.Problem is they aren't chucking 3s. They are good at them. Unlike Shawn Bradley. Again, if good back to the basket big men were valuable in the NBA, Zach Edey wouldn't be back in college this year
Meanwhile, if they have him guard Shaq on defense, he'd fouling out A LOT.
Problem is they aren't chucking 3s. They are good at them. Unlike Shawn Bradley. Again, if good back to the basket big men were valuable in the NBA, Zach Edey wouldn't be back in college this yearSo you're defending the GMs?
So you're defending the GMs?Zach Edey approves of this post.
Every single NFL fan is smarter than their team's GM, just ask them. Why would NBA GMs be any smarter? lol
Anyway, Wembanyama's listed as a PF, so some other guy can guard him outside. Since no one has a big center anymore, Shaq would score at will. If a 7'4" twig is guarding him, he'd score at will AND that guy would foul out every time.
And jesus, guys, Victor is shooting 29% from 3. WTF?!? Why are you even bringing that shit up? I had no idea it would be that low.
Like 45 seconds of research negates all your stuff. Shaq shot 58% which is precisely double Wemby's 3-pt %.
On 100 shots each, Wemby has 87 pts. Shaq has 116.
No, that's not realist basketball, but the point is made.
MSU now 0-6 on 3 tonight.0-7
1-26 on the season for the team that led power conference teams in 3 pt shooting percentage last year
down goes #2 DookCool, so MSU gets a pissed off Duke on Tuesday
badgers missed too many free throws down the stretchUW was 14 for 23. UT was 19 for 23.
Cool, so MSU gets a pissed off Duke on TuesdayHere we go...
Michigan might be the second team in the conference. MSU, Maryland, Wisconsin, Rutgers and Illinois have all looked below expectationsIllinois looked good against Kansas but the game didn't count. We'll see how they look against Marquette.
I mean Hauser was our best three point shooter, but to go from the best 3 point shooting P5 team to this is quite the turnYes, very strange indeed, getting good looks, not sure what you do, they showed last year they can shoot them.
I think Wisconsin‘s Gatorade bucket was actually filled with heavily leaded gasoline. That was awful.I thought they were gonna be good. Not so much.
Massey composite rankings (24 rankings)As much as I want the colored listings to be correct so I can poke the ELA bear, I think it's very premature to have Michigan above MSU. Yes, people are going to verbally trash MSU next week after a loss to Arizona, but people can't seem to learn that an Izzo team is far better in March than November. You seem to grasp that well.
- 26. Michigan
- 29. Iowa
- 33. Michigan State
- 34. Illinois
- 41. Wisconsin
- 43. Northwestern
- 54. Indiana
- 55. Maryland
- 56. Ohio State
- 59. Penn State
- 66. Rutgers
- 74. Nebraska
- 121. Minnesota
Massey composite rankings (24 rankings)not sure Minn at 121 is correct but after 2 games against teams that do not register a pulse this years squad is way more fun to watch.
- Kansas
- PURDUE
- Houston
- Connecticut
- Arizona
- Tennessee
- Alabama
- Marquette
- Gonzaga
- Creighton
- Duke
- Texas A&M
- Arkansas
- Texas
- Kentucky
- Baylor
- USC
- North Carolina
- Virginia
- Memphis
- Miami
- Florida Atlantic
- Iowa State
- UCLA
- TCU
- 26. Michigan
- 29. Iowa
- 33. Michigan State
- 34. Illinois
- 41. Wisconsin
- 43. Northwestern
- 54. Indiana
- 55. Maryland
- 56. Ohio State
- 59. Penn State
- 66. Rutgers
- 74. Nebraska
- 121. Minnesota
not sure Minn at 121 is correct but after 2 games against teams that do not register a pulse this years squad is way more fun to watch.Considering they finished last year at #201, #121 is a MASSIVE step up
They have guys that can actually shoot from the outside and heck they have been making free throws and have played a little defense
this is a huge step up form last year
better still might not be good enough but at least it is better
Which team has taken the largest step in the wrong direction?In the Big Ten? It has to be Maryland. They already have 2 mid major losses
Yeah, it's kinda funny that three of the teams that were considered contenders for the Big Ten this year after Purdue: Wisconsin, Michigan State, and Maryland, are the first three teams with two losses.I'm not that worried about losses, as much as the fact that zero Big Ten teams have a good win yet. What's the best win for the conference this far? Michigan over St. Johns? Teams basically have as many losses as they've played good teams. All of the wins have been against garbage opponents
I'm not that worried about losses, as much as the fact that zero Big Ten teams have a good win yet. What's the best win for the conference this far? Michigan over St. Johns? Teams basically have as many losses as they've played good teams. All of the wins have been against garbage opponentsPer Massey, the Big Ten is 1-9 against the top 80, with Purdue over #39 Xavier being the only win.
Is Mizzou awful or is Minnesota's close loss to them a sign of progress?Minny was up 20 then blew it so maybe both or neither
Minny was up 20 then blew it so maybe both or neitherI didn't realize that. I didn't watch, just noticed the final.
I didn't realize that. I didn't watch, just noticed the final.it wasn't pretty
Michigan has been better than MSU thus far.You can retract this now lol.
You can retract this now lol.I saw that score last night and thought "ok, it is all of us".
Is Maryland awful?They were terrible last night, though they had games like that last year too.
I overhear announcers talking how Nova was in midst of a 9 and a half minute FG drought, then I see the score and they are up by 28!
Minny was up 20 then blew it so maybe both or neitherMissouri lost at home last night to 0-5 Jackson State. So I'm going to say Missouri is also very bad
That guy from Purdue with the porn star tattoos is still in college?LOL who is that?
LOL who is that?Gotta be talking about Gillis
Gotta be talking about GillisYeah, he just has weird trashy male porn star tats. And I think he's been on the team since 2015
Wisconsin ... where did that game come from ... damn shocked the hell out of me.Virginia and Wisconsin are the two teams delighted to be playing a basketball game inside of a phone booth
Wisconsin ... where did that game come from ... damn shocked the hell out of me.My dreams.
I remember a Nintendo basketball game with Bill Laimbeer as the cover athlete, that as I recall was essentially what American Gladiators basketball would be, except also it took place on the moon, bc I guess that's where fouls aren't called.It appears we are only 7 years away
I'm assuming Wisconsin-Virginia was the closest thing to that game
Virginia and Wisconsin are the two teams delighted to be playing a basketball game inside of a phone boothDidn't watch, I reckon?
yeah. this is the 2nd time it hasn't been in Maui lately. wasn't the other one in Vegas? Felt like it never happened.I think the COVID year it was in Vegas
I think the COVID year it was in VegasYep. Hawaii locked down everything, for a long time.
Good day for the B1G yesterday.And much needed. Hopefully we keep it up tonight.
Can definitely see why Rick Barnes wanted to play the scrimmage against MSU with no foul outshttps://twitter.com/BigMcLrgHuge/status/1727143390213787668?t=Q0fGALVvMDSThQ5L5LVIUg&s=19
Ohio State looking pretty good against Alabama<checks calendar>
<checks calendar>JUST STOP WATCHING
<sees it is in fact, not January>
<anticipating January collapse>
JUST STOP WATCHINGI couldn't watch, couldn't find the channel they hid it on.
Seriously, have to lump you in with BRAD AKA BART, where there is no enjoyment of the game at all and instead it's just constant bellyaching.
JUST STOP WATCHINGNot watching. Still bellyaching.
Seriously, have to lump you in with BRAD AKA BART, where there is no enjoyment of the game at all and instead it's just constant bellyaching.
Not watching. Still bellyaching.I was bellyaching last night, but that was honestly just indigestion after over eating
And Beta, while I have lived every heart break you have, I choose to look forward not back. But, you do you.I don't choose to look back. I choose to look elsewhere.
Ohio State is playing Santa Clara tonight, just like I expected*.I did too, though Santa Clara already has wins over Oregon and Stanford, so they will probably be pretty tough
*I expected it to be because tOSU and Santa Clara both lost rather than both won.
I did too, though Santa Clara already has wins over Oregon and Stanford, so they will probably be pretty toughThey've been decent recently. I don't think beating Stanford means anything, but Oregon should be at least solid, if not quite recent vintage
CBS Sports??Not on my YouTube search
it's on youtube TV
With the win over Alabama and blowout of Santa Clara there is a chance that tOSU will move into the rankings.They are up to 30 on Torvik and 24 on KenPom.
They are up to 30 on Torvik and 24 on KenPom.Shouldn't be seriously tested again until December 16 in Atlanta against UCLA.
On Monday Purdue will become the first BIG team to be ranked #1 3 years in a row. I was surprised no other BIG team had accomplished that.Yep, Purdue is #1 in both polls.
Updated KenPomOhio State's schedule is frustrating.
#95 Penn State
#136 Minnesota
Ohio State's schedule is frustrating.TAMU is pretty good and a very veteran team. You can have a pretty good night and still lose to them. The Bucks are young and I would expect some inconsistency. The main thing is whether they can keep up the defensive intensity - that has been the weakness for Holtmann, but also why he's starting Okpara over Key. He hasn't had a rim protector the entire time he's been at OSU, nor a point guard as good as Thornton.
Their two December league games are the two above, the worst two teams in the league.
Then their OOC is a few really good teams (aTm, Bama, UCLA) and a whole lot of crap.
It makes it very hard to evaluate the team because I'm always hesitant to put too much stock in one game. Maybe tOSU is really good and they just had an off night against aTm? Maybe they aren't good at all and just had a monster night against Bama?
Massey composite rankings (27 rankings - last week in parenthesis)I know this will change as the season progresses but it is interesting how it breaks down at this point:OHIO STATE (-)[/list]
- PURDUE (1)
- 26. Michigan State (25)
- 30. Illinois (38)
- 33. Wisconsin (53)
- 37. Iowa (32)
- 46. Nebraska (54)
- 59. Northwestern (55)
- 61. Indiana (66)
- 63. Rutgers (59)
- 64. Michigan (34)
- 73. Penn State (57)
- 78. Maryland (78)
- 130. Minnesota (118)
TAMU is pretty good and a very veteran team. You can have a pretty good night and still lose to them. The Bucks are young and I would expect some inconsistency. The main thing is whether they can keep up the defensive intensity - that has been the weakness for Holtmann, but also why he's starting Okpara over Key. He hasn't had a rim protector the entire time he's been at OSU, nor a point guard as good as Thornton.I get that and I'll add that according to KenPom Bama is better than aTm which further muddies the waters because Ohio State lost to aTm at home and beat Bama on a "neutral" court MUCH closer to Alabama than Ohio.
Ohio State's schedule is frustrating.So you just get to watch some ball.
Their two December league games are the two above, the worst two teams in the league.
Then their OOC is a few really good teams (aTm, Bama, UCLA) and a whole lot of crap.
It makes it very hard to evaluate the team because I'm always hesitant to put too much stock in one game. Maybe tOSU is really good and they just had an off night against aTm? Maybe they aren't good at all and just had a monster night against Bama?
So you just get to watch some ball.I'm ok with that to a point, I'm just saying that nobody cares about games against:
The eval will be in the standings in March and the tournament run. The rest is just a chance to watch some kids play hard.
Playing these games in a <half full arena in front of fans fighting off yawns is understandable to a point but, IMHO five of these games is too many. Two of them should have been traded for the home and away halves of H&H's with power league "name brand" opponents.
- #271 Miami, OH, H 12/6
- #273 WMU, H W 73-56
- #280 New Orleans, H 12/21
- #294 Merrimack, H W 76-52
- #305 CMU, H 11/29
I saw that. It does make some sense to leave out the bottom 4.Correct.
Didn't the old Big East do something like that? Seems to ring a bell.
I hate the idea, but when you've got an 18-team conference, you really have no choice.I don't think there's anything "super" about this shit.
Just another example why superconferences suck.
Well, hello Purdue, I'm Wisconsin and it's really nice to meet you.I can just imagine when they realize USC's mom and Illinois' dad got married and now they're family...
Oh, we're distant cousins? I did not know that.
#3 Market comes to Madison tomorrow. Gonna be a tough one for Big Red.They are currently in the middle of a run of
They are currently in the middle of a run ofI'm not a Marquette fan but seriously, good for them! I like seeing scheduling like this!
- @Illinois
- UCLA
- Kansas
- Purdue
- Southern
- @Wisconsin
- Texas
- Notre Dame
They are currently in the middle of a run ofHopefully they are tired.
- @Illinois
- UCLA
- Kansas
- Purdue
- Southern
- @Wisconsin
- Texas
- Notre Dame
little late, but congrats buckeyes on a nice win. you guys were lights out that night.That was the game that the whole first half was wiped out by Utah State and New Mexico football, and I just followed twitter, which kept saying how great a game it was. CBSSN :(
WTF happened last night?College basketball can be cool and weird.
Purdue lost to the Nerds?!?!?
NERDS!!
WTF happened last night?I didn’t even check on it last night because I didn’t think it would even be a game. Talk about a shocking outcome. Interesting week of college basketball
Purdue lost to the Nerds?!?!?
NERDS!!
WTF happened last night?I had to look up what this meant. I didn't even realize there Big Ten games last night
Purdue lost to the Nerds?!?!?
NERDS!!
#3 Market comes to Madison tomorrow. Gonna be a tough one for Big Red.Big Red.
Big Red.Good game.
Big ole game tomorrow night in EL. Interested what this version of MSU looks likeAs of now it looks like a team that could have won a national title 20 years ago. It's loaded with athletic 2s and 3s, with no true point guard, not enough shooting, and no rim protection.
I saw that. It does make some sense to leave out the bottom 4.This is in reply to the OP on the subject by @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) (a twitter link) then this reply by @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) and a further reply by ELA stating that he would like to see 12 (leaving out the bottom six) to avoid a double-bye.
Didn't the old Big East do something like that? Seems to ring a bell.
This is in reply to the OP on the subject by @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) (a twitter link) then this reply by @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) and a further reply by ELA stating that he would like to see 12 (leaving out the bottom six) to avoid a double-bye.That's kinda unwieldy, but it's the bed that's been made for us. And it's not a comfy bed.
I don't think this is as complicated as it is being made out to be but perhaps arena availability is a bigger problem than I realize.
You need eight teams remaining going into Friday such that you have:
- Four games Friday to get to four
- Two games Saturday to get to two
- A Championship game on Sunday
One way or another (exclusion or games) you need to get rid of 10 teams by the end of Thursday. As I see it, the most logical ways are:
Drop the bottom two and just have a 16-team tournament starting on Wednesday:
Wednesday:Thursday:
- #1 vs #16
- #2 vs #15
- #8 vs #9
- #7 vs #10
Friday:
- #3 vs #14
- #4 vs #13
- #5 vs #12
- #6 vs #11
- 1/16 vs 8/9
- 2/15 vs 7/10
- 3/14 vs 6/11
- 4/13 vs 5/12
Drop the bottom two, Feed-in method:
Wednesday:Thursday:
- #16 vs 12
- #15 vs 11
- #14 vs 10
- #13 vs 9
Friday:
- #8 vs 9/13
- #7 vs 10/14
- #6 vs 11/15
- #5 vs 12/16
- #1 vs 8/9/13
- #2 vs 7/10/14
- #3 vs 6/11/15
- #4 vs 5/12/16
An alternative that I prefer including all teams:
Tuesday:Wednesday:
- #18 vs #15
- #17 vs #16
Thursday:
- #1 vs 17/16
- #2 vs 15/18
- #8 vs #9
- #7 vs #10
Friday:
- #3 vs #14
- #4 vs #13
- #5 vs #12
- #6 vs #11
- #1/16/17 vs #8/9
- #2/15/18 vs #7/10
- #3/14 vs #6/11
- #4/13 vs #5/12
Big ole game tomorrow night in EL. Interested what this version of MSU looks likeI'm interested in what UW brings. If they can maintain the energy they showed against Market, they have a good chance.
I’m not sure why Michigan is heavy favorites against Indiana tonight. They have not looked good at all. I don’t dislike Juwan, but I miss Beilein style basketball.Well, according to KenPom:
I’m not sure why Michigan is heavy favorites against Indiana tonight. They have not looked good at all. I don’t dislike Juwan, but I miss Beilein style basketball.Because Michigan can't play defense but Indiana struggles to score against an open gym
Well, according to KenPom:UM in tier 3, I think.
- 2 Purdue
- 15 Wisconsin
- 16 Illinois
- 19 MSU
- 24 Ohio State
- 40 Iowa
- 48 Northwestern
- 49 Michigan
- 58 Nebraska
- 62 Rutgers
- 69 Indiana
- 70 Maryland
- 116 Minnesota
- 127 Penn State
While we are on the subject, new proposed tiers:
- Purdue
- Wisconsin, Illinois, MSU
- Ohio State, Iowa, Northwestern
- Michigan, Nebraska, Rutgers, Indiana, Maryland
- Blank
- Minnesota, Penn State
Thoughts?
UM in tier 3, I think.Agreed
I’m not sure why Michigan is heavy favorites against Indiana tonight. They have not looked good at all. I don’t dislike Juwan, but I miss Beilein style basketball.
UM in tier 3, I think.
AgreedFrom my perspective, Michigan is difficult to figure out. The NET rankings are out, I think for the first time this season and Michigan is 1-0 in quad-1 games. That is really good even with the lack of high-end opposition, here are all B1G teams' records in Quad-1 games:
Because Michigan can't play defense but Indiana struggles to score against an open gymhaha.. exactly. They don't play defense. I've watched three of their games, Memphis, Texas Tech and Oregon game on the split screen on Saturday and this is the most unimpressive UM team I've seen in probably a decade. Nkamhoua is nothing special. I really don't understand what all the hype was about Tarris Reed coming out of high school at all. I thought he was a huge liability on the floor last year and his game looks like it's regressed.
I’m not sure why Michigan is heavy favorites against Indiana tonight. They have not looked good at all. I don’t dislike Juwan, but I miss Beilein style basketball.Greg Gard doesn't like him. ;)
Greg Gard doesn't like him. ;)Haha. Probably for good reason.
UM in tier 5, I think.FIFY
FIFY
UW to tier 1 maybe, @medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) .IMHO, both moves would be premature.
IMHO, both moves would be premature.I don't know man. This Michigan team looks like the biggest mess of a team in the last 10-15 years. They look sloppy and without discipline. Tarris Reed was considered their top guy of their 2022 class and he looks terrible. Not great on D and only time he scores is an easy dunk. Yossef Khayat who was supposed to be a big time stud coming from Europe doesn't even see minutes. Dug McDaniel has games he can't thorw it in the ocean and I always thought his size would be an issue and it really seems like it is. I think this is a bottom 2-3 team in the conference.
I don't know man. This Michigan team looks like the biggest mess of a team in the last 10-15 years. They look sloppy and without discipline. Tarris Reed was considered their top guy of their 2022 class and he looks terrible. Not great on D and only time he scores is an easy dunk. Yossef Khayat who was supposed to be a big time stud coming from Europe doesn't even see minutes. Dug McDaniel has games he can't thorw it in the ocean and I always thought his size would be an issue and it really seems like it is. I think this is a bottom 2-3 team in the conference.From the look of things so far, there will be a LOT of competition for that "bottom 2-3 team in the conference" distinction:
Lunardi's latest:Tom Izzo as a 7 seed: 10-5 (3 Sweet 16s, 2 Elite 8s, 1 Final 4)
- #1 Purdue
- #4 Illinois
- #5 Wisconsin, Ohio State
- #7 Michigan State
- #9 Northwestern
What would these seeds mean for the league's chances in March:
From the look of things so far, there will be a LOT of competition for that "bottom 2-3 team in the conference" distinction:Ha.. please elaborate how you decided to use terrible vs bad.
- Minnesota looks terrible.
- Penn State looks terrible.
- Maryland looks terrible.
- Michigan looks bad.
- Indiana looks bad.
Nearly all of it falls on Purdue. #1 seeds almost always win their opener (150/152), make the S15 better than 84% of the time (128/152), make the E8 roughly 2/3 of the time (101/152), make the F4 nearly half of the time (61/152), and make the Championship game 25% of the time (38/152).Purdue as a 1 seed only wins their R64 opener 75%, make the S16 50%, the E8 25%, and the F4 (or beyond) 0%.
Tom Izzo as a 7 seed: 10-5 (3 Sweet 16s, 2 Elite 8s, 1 Final 4)
More Elite 8s as a 7 seed than Matt Painter as any seed
Purdue as a 1 seed only wins their R64 opener 75%, make the S16 50%, the E8 25%, and the F4 (or beyond) 0%.I'm aware of both of these things but they could change. Also, from a conference-wide perspective they kinda balance out. If we end up with a #1 seed PU that loses in the R32 and a #7 seed MSU that goes to the F4 then, as a league, we end up with roughly what was expected out of those two just not from the ones that we expected it from.
Ha.. please elaborate how you decided to use terrible vs bad.It is early and I'm guessing. Also, preseason expectation is still a big part of it.
IMHO, both moves would be premature.What if UW wins in Tucson this weekend?
What if UW wins in Tucson this weekend?That would be impressive no doubt. Even with a win there, I'm not 100% convinced that they are as good as Purdue.
This has to feel good for ShakaFeels good for Big Red too.
Dickenson up to being a jack ass again in his game the other night … hopefully he gets suspendedKansas suspended him for their next 3 games
Kansas suspended him for their next 3 gamesI think this has turned out to be fake.
I think this has turned out to be fake.Yup, fake account
Last night Maryland needed OT to beat PSU at home, Nebraska lost to Minnesota, and Rutgers got blown out by Wake Forest.The only had four tournament teams in 2018. So hopefully better than that.
Is it just me or is the league as a whole, from top to bottom, weaker then it has maybe ever been?
Purdue and Wisconsin look really good but not altogether invincible.
Illinois and Ohio State look solid but not elite.
MSU looks mediocre but I think we all more-or-less assume that Izzo will have them ready in March.
Indiana and Northwestern look ok.
Nebraska, Rutgers, Iowa, and Michigan all look shaky if you ask me.
Maryland, Penn State, and Minnesota look terrible.
What if UW wins in Tucson this weekend?Never mind.
Never mind.No shame is losing on the road to #1.
Anyone watch the Indiana game? What happened that they got smoked? I was busy with the Purdue/Bama game which was a blockbuster of a gameI did not see but, according to KenPom:
didn't see that coming in LincolnHave you watched MSU at all? I think most of the computers favored the Huskers
Have you watched MSU at all? I think most of the computers favored the Huskersno, but I've watched the Hapless Huskers
Yeah, a rough day. Wiscy and Indiana weren't remotely competitive, which was surprising. Thought those games would be much better.I’m not so surprised.
I think pregame Chicago State may have been #335 evenYeah, it is REALLY bad and outright astounding for a team that beat Purdue two weeks ago.
Baylor -3.5 seems like easy moneyThis has not aged well. MSU up big going into halftime.
What happened to IU??Looked to me like they simply ran out of gas.
Baylor -3.5 seems like easy moneyI may send you a bill
Today's games sorted by point spreads:
- Ohio State -1.5 vs UCLA, 3pm in Atlanta CBS
- #3 Purdue +2 vs #1 Kansas, 430 Peacock
- Penn State -3 vs GaTech at MSG, noon BTN
- Michigan State +3.5 vs #6 Baylor, 2pm FOX
- Indiana +7 vs #2 Kansas, 1230 CBS
- #25 Northwestern -10 vs DePaul, 530 FS1
- Michigan -23.5 vs EMU, 230 BTN
- Rutgers vs LIU Brooklyn, 1pm
- Iowa vs FAMU, 430 BTN
Baylor -3.5 seems like easy moneyThis is why they keep building new casinos
Didn’t get to se Michigan State game was at Purdue game, how did they blow the doors off of Baylor?Smothering defense, beat them almost every play to a loose ball, strong rebounding and a really strong, balanced offensive plan.
Stupid to even schedule this gamehttps://twitter.com/CBBcontent/status/1736233928736817607?t=bTTvQAnqrkkmtzjaBEqSSQ&s=19
https://twitter.com/AidanLaPorta69/status/1733971779385696491?t=yktkOfyBnkhGTBnM1DJHiQ&s=19
does anyone understand the NET rankings?Sort of
Updated KenPom:gotta be the highest ranking of the Mayor's time in Lincoln
- 2 Purdue
- 14 Illinois
- 17 Wisconsin
- 23 Michigan State
- 26 Ohio State
- 42 Nebraska
- 45 Michigan
- 49 Iowa
- 65 Northwestern
- 72 Maryland
- 77 Rutgers
- 79 Indiana
- 88 Minnesota
- 109 Penn State
does anyone understand the NET rankings?Not really. It is some sort of algorithm. Ones like KenPom use some starting data that slowly fades out as the season progresses. I'm not sure the NET rankings do, which is why the early rankings look wild.
does anyone understand the NET rankings?They are confusing to say the least and they tend to contain oddities early in the season but once there is enough data they tend to roughly match other computer rankings.
Not really. It is some sort of algorithm. Ones like KenPom use some starting data that slowly fades out as the season progresses. I'm not sure the NET rankings do, which is why the early rankings look wild.It’s kind of like a bastardized version of those sorts of rankings. It uses scoring caps in some situations, but not others. It weighs certain things weirdly.
It’s kind of like a bastardized version of those sorts of rankings. It uses scoring caps in some situations, but not others. It weighs certain things weirdly.They seem to primarily use it as a sorting tool, as to say Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4 W/L. So not to take the rankings themselves totally seriously. But, I still have 2 problems with that. #1, I think the Q1 is WAY too generous, particularly with road games. Granted I'm guessing that's to throw a bone to the P5 leagues, so that every single conference road game is Q1. Second, the hard line for the boxes. Beating the #75 team on the road is the same as beating #1. But beating #76 is the same as beating #135.
I think you are correct about not using backwards looking data, which is fine, as long as someone doesn’t take today’s rankings to seriously.
As long as it’s used just as a résumé tool, it’s perfectly fine. But people also can’t help but get out of sorts about rankings.
They seem to primarily use it as a sorting tool, as to say Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4 W/L. So not to take the rankings themselves totally seriously. But, I still have 2 problems with that. #1, I think the Q1 is WAY too generous, particularly with road games. Granted I'm guessing that's to throw a bone to the P5 leagues, so that every single conference road game is Q1. Second, the hard line for the boxes. Beating the #75 team on the road is the same as beating #1. But beating #76 is the same as beating #135.True but not much different than talking about ranked opponents in football. There is a big difference between playing #1, #2, and #3 on the road and playing #23, #24, and #25 at home but both are "three ranked opponents".
They seem to primarily use it as a sorting tool, as to say Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4 W/L. So not to take the rankings themselves totally seriously. But, I still have 2 problems with that. #1, I think the Q1 is WAY too generous, particularly with road games. Granted I'm guessing that's to throw a bone to the P5 leagues, so that every single conference road game is Q1. Second, the hard line for the boxes. Beating the #75 team on the road is the same as beating #1. But beating #76 is the same as beating #135.I hadn't thought about this before in how they are weighted within the 4 quadrants, you make a good point not all wins within the Quad are equal.
Indiana down. 11 at home to Morehead State20-4 run to close for Indiana, after falling behind by 15. IU wins by 1
20-4 run to close for Indiana, after falling behind by 15. IU wins by 1Not a banner evening for the B1G. Indiana and Maryland both more-or-less escaped in home games that should have been blowout wins.
@medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) what data in the models drives such a rankings difference for those teams? Or is there not much difference a NET of 136 and 111 that it is small differences that just look larger because the teams in that range are all clumped so closely together?I honestly have no idea.
@medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) what data in the models drives such a rankings difference for those teams? Or is there not much difference a NET of 136 and 111 that it is small differences that just look larger because the teams in that range are all clumped so closely together?I think it’s a clumped situation. Underneath, there’s a power rating number, so there’s likely a lot working a few points of one another.
I think it’s a clumped situation. Underneath, there’s a power rating number, so there’s likely a lot working a few points of one another.I agree.
Maybe:1. Purdue
3. Ohio State, MichiganEh, I just don't see this. Michigan is already ranked amongst Iowa/Nebraska/Northwestern. Ohio State already has a loss to the B1G's worst team and . . . (shh, don't tell Max I mentioned it, but . . . coaching matters).
It is a pretty quiet week. None of our teams play until Thursday when Maryland hosts Coppin State. Nine of our teams play on Friday but all nine are at home and should be big favorites. Three more teams play Saturday then everyone is off until next Tuesday when league play restarts in earnest.MSU against Indiana State might be a decent game. ISU is 11-1 and #23 in the NET. WVU is #180, right behind 2-7 Eastern Washington. WVU has name value, but they have been horrible this year. OSU should wax them
MSU against Indiana State might be a decent game. ISU is 11-1 and #23 in the NET. WVU is #180, right behind 2-7 Eastern Washington. WVU has name value, but they have been horrible this year. OSU should wax themI honestly didn't realize that Indiana State was that good and you are right, tOSU/WVU is interesting mostly for the name. It *SHOULD* be an easy game for the Buckeyes but we are getting close to the dreaded month of January so please forgive tOSU fans for not feeling comfortable.
I honestly didn't realize that Indiana State was that good and you are right, tOSU/WVU is interesting mostly for the name. It *SHOULD* be an easy game for the Buckeyes but we are getting close to the dreaded month of January so please forgive tOSU fans for not feeling comfortable.I’ll say this. I think Ohio St will probably win Saturday night, but I don’t think it will be a walk.
I’ll say this. I think Ohio St will probably win Saturday night, but I don’t think it will be a walk.I think you'll be pleasantly surprised this evening.
The WVU team that earned that 180 ranking isn’t the one that will suit up Saturday night. WVU will have 3 starters Saturday night that have only played in the last 2 games due to a NCAA suspension and eligibility issues that were resolved with the recent court ruling.
Unfortunately, as soon as they got those 3 they lost their best player this year, Jesse Edwards, to a broken wrist.
Those 3 improve WVU’s offense immensely but the team still can’t guard or rebound to save their life.
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised this evening.Lol. I really have no idea what to expect. The team now is so different than it was the first 10 games of the year.
Indiana State is #1 in the country in the effective FG% and #3 in 3pt %, and they certainly look the part. Turn the ball over a lot, and not doing much, but they can sure shoot the ball.ISU shot chart
lotsa long 2 pointers.I think the orientation is slightly off. 11-24 on 3, 6-11 on 2s
Law of averages finally caught up to them. Made 7 of their first 9 3s of the half, missed 8 of their last 9.They lead the country in field goal percentage. Great win
Granted they did run some nice rims cuts as well. Guessing they won't lean QUITE this heavily into the 3 ball in MVC play.
I’ll say this. I think Ohio St will probably win Saturday night, but I don’t think it will be a walk.Meh, every once in a while I hit it on the head. Good game, but gave up way too many offensive rebounds and too many step in 3s. Fun watch, though. Ohio St and WVU in Cleveland is a good neutral site game for both teams.
The WVU team that earned that 180 ranking isn’t the one that will suit up Saturday night. WVU will have 3 starters Saturday night that have only played in the last 2 games due to a NCAA suspension and eligibility issues that were resolved with the recent court ruling.
Unfortunately, as soon as they got those 3 they lost their best player this year, Jesse Edwards, to a broken wrist.
Those 3 improve WVU’s offense immensely but the team still can’t guard or rebound to save their life.
Meh, every once in a while I hit it on the head. Good game, but gave up way too many offensive rebounds and too many step in 3s. Fun watch, though. Ohio St and WVU in Cleveland is a good neutral site game for both teams.One of the rare neutral site games where the atmosphere was awesome
One of the rare neutral site games where the atmosphere was awesomeThey've done this before. I went to tOSU/WVU in Cleveland in late December, 2019. Cleveland is close enough to both schools/fanbases that you get a lot of fans of each.
Soon to be added:
Teir 3?
47 Washington 57
49 Oregon 71
Teir 4/5?
69 Southern California 91
85 UCLA 144
Probably the 2nd best player in the conferenceNubbz, see above
https://twitter.com/DPiper247/status/1740449428400709943?s=20
Updated KenPom and Net:Keep moving the bold further down the list. Program is a dumpster fire. Losses to McNeese & Long Beach St. Watching them is nails on a chalkboard.
- 2 Purdue 4
- 10 Illinois 12
- 14 Wisconsin 17
- 20 Michigan State 29
- 29 Ohio State 33
- 52 Nebraska 63
- 54 Iowa 67
- 58 Northwestern 72
- 62 Michigan 79
- 74 Maryland 109
- 81 Minnesota 86
- 87 Indiana 100
- 93 Rutgers 94
- 104 Penn State 115
Soon to be added:
- 47 Washington 57
- 49 Oregon 71
- 69 Southern California 91
- 85 UCLA 144
Indiana's coaching hires have had a consistent downward trajectory.No. Keep the downward trajectory. Send them to the conference's cellar. #POTFH
Can they get Sampson back now that everything he did was fine. And the Cream did a solid job building out of a hole, but never got them over the top. Then Archie was mid,.and Woodson is something less than mid
Indiana's coaching hires have had a consistent downward trajectory.Man, what kind of monster did the Big Ten avoid because Kelvin Sampson texted recruits
Can they get Sampson back now that everything he did was fine. And the Cream did a solid job building out of a hole, but never got them over the top. Then Archie was mid,.and Woodson is something less than mid
OSU's first January game tonight.I actually sought out this thread to ask @MaximumSam (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1572) what he thinks so far. I'm undecided and trying to be cautiously optimistic.
Miss the ability for Sam and medina to have a sig bet
Happy New Year!The post I referred to in the above post. Note date and time, right as PSU game ended.
With the holiday season over, all January gives me to look forward to is the NFL playoffs and Medina’s posts tracking Holtmann’s January slump.LoL. I'm cautiously optimistic, see above.
I thought Ohio State would handle Rutgers more easily last night, they were up like 10 at the half, but could never give the knock out blow. They have no inside game, never once did I see them try to post up Key and score, I agree with ELA that Key should be better. I am less concerned about facing OSU after last night than before last night. I don't think Rutgers is very good this year, they are 0-5 vs Quad I and have 7 Quad 4 wins, so their schedule is weak.I feel Purdue fans should generally be more understanding of struggling with Rutgers
I am more worried about the trip to Nebraska than the trip to OSU for basketball.
I feel Purdue fans should generally be more understanding of struggling with RutgersFair point, I remember last year New Year's night all too well.
Maybe Vegas will finally learn their lesson tonight with Michigan. Shocking to see Michigan -6.5 against the Gophers.I think a lot of that is about Minnesota and home court.
Even as a Cavs fan, I hated Beilein leaving the post to head to the NBA. Not a Howard hater, but Beilein was everything I loved in a coach and he's sorely missed in Ann Arbor.
I think a lot of that is about Minnesota and home court.For bettors, it was free money. Very free.
Should swing against better teams. Though the power ratings are not excited with the conference this year.
For bettors, it was free money. Very free.Imagine going back to this time 3 years ago and trying to convince someone of the relative states of Harbaugh and Howard's programs and job security in January 2024
Imagine going back to this time 3 years ago and trying to convince someone of the relative states of Harbaugh and Howard's programs and job security in January 2024Lol. Wow is that a great point.
If the Dug McDaniel rumors are true, may have to drop MichiganHow about to simplify things we move Michigan and Penn State to tier-5?
If the Dug McDaniel rumors are true, may have to drop MichiganWhat are the rumors?
What are the rumors?Possibly academically ineligible
What are the rumors?Academically ineligible. Starting at the first classes of the 2nd semester, which I think is Tuesday?
Juwan Howard "letting" Phil Martelli coach the team today. If the score holds, Michigan will go to 4-1 when Martelli coaches and 3-7 when Juwan coaches. So he's essentially telling his employers that the better option is sitting next to himThat's a strange way to admit he should have been cashiered two years ago after the fracas in Madison.
Northwestern is fascinating how they can play so bad and so good in different games. Is it lack of focus, bad matchups or on the coaching staff not having them ready?Northwestern always handles MSU
Northwestern always handles MSUIt's weird because that happened only twice between 2002 and 2020, but each felt really memorable. Then it's been four of the past five.
I'm not assuming they are losing to the Badgers. Wiscy is very good but also has two double digit losses on the road. Hopefully Thornton and Gayle don't go 0-fer from deep againWell, I'm not altogether assuming it, I said:
They are likely to lose on Wednesday to Wisconsin.That said, Wisconsin's
two double digit losses on the road.Were to #10 Arizona and #23 Providence. Out team is not that.
By projected lines, the next seven for Ohio State include six functional tossups and one game where they’ll be a double digit favorite.I'm not sure that it would even take seven straight losses to end Holtmann's tenure. If they lose the next three:
If they only go 2-5 that’s pretty bad. If they go 0-7, The coach is done, but that’s pretty par for the course. It’s really hard to have a seven game conference losing streak in a hot seat year and not get canned.
Assuming that Ohio State loses to MichiganNo need to assume the worst.. Mark the OSU W in on 1/15 right now.. You'll see why after you watch the game. UM program in shambles.
Conversely, if the Buckeyes manage to win in Ann Arbor
No need to assume the worst.. Mark the OSU W in on 1/15 right now.. You'll see why after you watch the game. UM program in shambles.It always amuses me that rather than the "homer takes" that everyone expects, what we see a LOT of here is the exact opposite. The Buckeye fan is almost ready to pencil in an "L" for the tOSU game in Ann Arbor and here comes the Wolverine fan to tell me I should mark it as a "W".
Yeah, I wouldn't flip them.This was my mistake. In my post I said that they both ha NU in tier-2 but that was a typo and should have been tier-3. I'll fix it.
I think both are 3
It always amuses me that rather than the "homer takes" that everyone expects, what we see a LOT of here is the exact opposite. The Buckeye fan is almost ready to pencil in an "L" for the tOSU game in Ann Arbor and here comes the Wolverine fan to tell me I should mark it as a "W".Hahaha. It’s why we all stick around.
Terrance Shannon Jr has filed or will fille soon a temporary restraining order against U of Illinois to be reinstated on the team.https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1744775964049997907?t=s04IEaI-h1jLPviZkT-GCQ&s=19
I will save all the rumors for the other message boards and reddit. There is a lot going on with this case to say the least.
Terrance Shannon Jr has filed or will fille soon a temporary restraining order against U of Illinois to be reinstated on the team.I have heard rumors that this DA's conviction rate on these cases is not great, not sure what it means, hope the truth is found and justice is served accordingly and in a timely fashion. I have a buddy that is an Illinois fan and filled me on some of the noise around this case.
I will save all the rumors for the other message boards and reddit. There is a lot going on with this case to say the least.
Suing to be able to play basketball usually goes well.Honestly, it *MIGHT* make a lot of sense in this case. The University of Illinois can basically be a benevolent adversary and not really "fight", lose, and be able to make everyone happy:
Where is mdterps? He was our one true homerGot himself banned by sending threatening PM's.
Tier 1 NebraskaLoL.
over the line, Smokey!Mark a zero!
Based on that, I think we should just eliminate Tier-1 by putting Purdue in with the current Tier-2 teams.or eliminate tier 5 and move #2 up to Tier 1
Got himself banned by sending threatening PM's.https://youtu.be/dQctpzuXmUs
Got himself banned by sending threatening PM's.Wasn’t that mcwterps?
Matt Rhule and his daughters stormed the court last nightBeing a football coach at a basketball school is a nice life
?He was the coach at UWGB the last 3 years, and was historically bad. They are 9-8 and favored to win today. They won 15 games total in his 3 years
You talking about Will?Yeah, he went 15-61 over the past 3 years at UWGB. He does not appear to be coaching this year
Is he coaching somewhere still? Who would actually hire him? He's no gouda.
I don't think anyone will disagree but:Agreed
- Northwestern has to move up. As is they have three positive upsets (vsMSU, vsPU, @PSU).
- Purdue needs to move into what was Tier-2 because they have two negative upsets (@NU, @UNL).
He was the coach at UWGB the last 3 years, and was historically bad. They are 9-8 and favored to win today. They won 15 games total in his 3 yearsHe was very in over his head. Shouldn't have been hired.
The Holtman buckeyes have shown up like clockwork in JanuaryYup
The Holtman buckeyes have shown up like clockwork in January
YupWow, I'm not even the one leading the charge anymore.
AgreedI went ahead and made the two changes listed above:
If Dug is really done, I'd move Michigan to 5 as wellApparently academic ineligibility only applies to road games.
Apparently academic ineligibility only applies to road games.Someone is going to need to explain this to me ... have we ever seen a suspension like this before, I cannot recall one.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/michigan-starting-point-guard-dug-mcdaniel-suspended-for-six-road-games-but-hes-allowed-to-play-at-home/amp/
Someone is going to need to explain this to me ... have we ever seen a suspension like this before, I cannot recall one.Nothing Juwan does makes sense. He has vacillated himself between head and assistant with his Heart issues.The only thing I can think of is he is not academically ineligible, but skirting the lines with it. And road trips cause more of an academic challenge, so this allows him to catchup. Who knows....the program is in shambles.
Will he be wearing an ankle bracelet at home games?
He can be at home games on the bench, not dressed, as a "guest" of the coaching staff.ok, I thought he could play in the home games.
Wow, I'm not even the one leading the charge anymore.That Bama pessimism is a work of pessimistic art. I love it.
I'm trying to be optimistic about this season but given Holtmann's history it is obviously difficult to do that.
Pessimistic view:
It is worse than "Holtmann January". The Buckeyes only have one impressive win all season and that came the day before Thanksgiving. Also, that one has lost a lot of it's luster because Alabama has lost to every decent team they've played and dropped from the rankings.
Starting with the PSU loss on December 9 the Buckeyes have looked nothing like a Tournament team. Since then:
- A loss to the worst team in the league: PSU
- Two wins that sound good but really aren't: WVU, UCLA
- A blowout win over a terrible team: NOLA
- A close home win over a bad team: RU
- A road loss to a not good team: IU
- A home loss to a good (maybe great) team: UW
Optimistic view:
They are still 4-3 over that stretch and 12-4 overall. This is recoverable.
The next two games (@M, vsPSU) *SHOULD* be two of the easiest games in the league. IF they win those they'll be 14-4 overall and over .500 in the league.
As I said a while ago, these next two games are critical. If they win these two they'll be 14-4/4-3. Go roughly .500 from there they finish about 21-10/11-9 or 20-11/10-10 and probably make the tournament. If they lose the next two they'll fall to 12-6/2-5 and they are toast.
https://youtu.be/pLiTJFFbczcPainter is not wrong ... if not addressed at some point there will an "incident"
Painter is a good guy and a smart guy.of all the coaches press conferences and interviews, Painter gives really good ones, he answers the questions and gives insight to the thought process. He is a very intelligent basketball mind and shines when he is interviewed. He is quite fun to listed to when he does radio stuff because will go off on tangents about basketball that you will learn something every time.
I've always enjoyed him. Even back in his playing days.
That Bama pessimism is a work of pessimistic art. I love it.FWIW:
But I pulled up their resume and I think there’s another threat. Right now, Ohio State has a single win in the top two quadrants. Normally this would matter less, because putting together a solid showing in the Big Ten could feel that enough.I noticed this when I looked at updated NET rankings. It is mostly a product of UCLA and WVU not being what was expected when those games were scheduled. When those games were scheduled the Ohio State Athletic Department probably figured they were scheduling Blue Blood UCLA and consistently very good WVU. According to the current NET rankings UCLA is #176 and WVU is #193. For context UCLA is a couple spots behind Utah Valley and just ahead of SJSU. WVU is between California Baptist and ECU.
but the middle of the conference is looking weaker than usual. So that means 11-9 isn’t going to be quite as meaty as usual. Could leave them in a rough spot and leave a game like yesterday even more of a missed chance.
...and yet they still lost. MSU is good ,but at the end of the day, MSU is barely over .500 right now. They need wins badly. The tournament streak is in significant jeopardy.Their schedule to open B1G play has been brutal:
...and yet they still lost. MSU is good ,but at the end of the day, MSU is barely over .500 right now. They need wins badly. The tournament streak is in significant jeopardy.I wouldn't say significant. They are still #17 in KenPom, ahead of Kansas, and #26 in the NET
I wouldn't say significant. They are still #17 in KenPom, ahead of Kansas, and #26 in the NETI agree and this is why I pointed out MSU's schedule.
Once the schedule lightens up they'll have to win, because while they have essentially performed to expectation, they haven't stolen a win to balance a bad loss
I need thoughts from you guys on MSU before I do the update to the projections. All three of you ( @grillrat (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=11) , @boilerbanger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=56) , and @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) ) had MSU moving down a tier.I don't know, I don't think the schedule really gets that much easier for them. Of the 15 games they have left, they've got:
I don't think that is necessary anymore because moving NU up a tier eliminated that upset so now MSU is at just -1 with only the home loss to UW as an upset. Also, that one would still be an upset even if we move them down.
I think we should keep MSU in the top tier along with UW, IL, and PU but like I've said before, I don't want this to be "Medina's projections", I want it to be a group effort so I'm asking for input before I finalize this update.
That said, here is my case for keeping MSU in the top tier:Thoughts?
- They looked like a top tier team last night. Yes, as @grillrat (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=11) said, they did still lose, but they played a very tight game on the road with top-tier Illinois. To me that didn't look like a game where Illinois was better AND at home it simply looked like a game between two top tier teams where the home team won.
- It really doesn't matter much. The difference between tier-1 and tier-2 is the projected result in road games against tier-3 teams. Those teams are currently MN, tOSU, and RU but the Spartans do not visit Columbus nor Piscataway this year so it is only a one-game difference (the game in Minneapolis).
- Coaching matters. I call this the Holtmann/Izzo rule. If a Holtmann team looks like a Tier-2 team in Nov/Dec I knock them down to Tier-3 because Holtmann. If an Izzo team looks like a Tier-2 team in Nov/Dec, I push them up to Tier-1 because Izzo. That usually works out about right.
I don't know, I don't think the schedule really gets that much easier for them. Of the 15 games they have left, they've got:Well, yes, if they lose to a bunch of bad teams going forward they won't get in.
@Maryland (FYI, remember I have Maryland in the tier 3 group)
@Wisconsin
@Minnesota
@Michigan
@Purdue
@IU (FYI, remember I have IU in the tier 3 group also)
NW
Illinois
It's not a stretch to believe that they could lose most, if not all, of those games (at least, based off of my tiers where MSU is in the tier 2). That leaves them with an 8-12 Big Ten record and 16-15 overall going into the BTT (and that is assuming they have no other "upset" games like losing @home to Iowa or OSU, etc.). Even if they pull off wins @maryland, @Mich, and NW (Home), yes that gets you up to 11-9 (19-12) but that probably only gives them a grand total of one quad 1 win (Baylor). That just doesn't feel like a tournament worthy resume.
As I said, they seem pretty good, but at the end of the day, they need wins badly.
Huskers in Iowa City tonight at 8:30 on BTN!I think the Hawkeyes win tonight, but I will be interested to see.
I think the Hawkeyes win tonight, but I will be interested to see.me too, but ya never know
Huskers in Iowa City tonight at 8:30 on BTN!Nice of the Big Ten to ruin college hockey, just to show college basketball on Friday nights
Nice of the Big Ten to ruin college hockey, just to show college basketball on Friday nightsStill trash.
MSU continues to have all kinds of issues playing 2nd half defense. Allowing Rutgers to score 14 points before a first tv timeout is horrible. 14 points is about what Rutgers should score in a half. 9 point lead erasedWell, 19-0 runs help. Finally able to get Rutgers playing our pace
fear the turtleI did not see that coming!
I’m gonna be so mad when MSU wins in MadisonSeems like we went a decade plus where the home team always won, to the road team winning quite a bunch recently
fear the turtleTheir point guard is real, real good.
Buckeyes with an 11-0 run to get back in the game.The more Jalen Rose talks, the better they play
Buckeyes with an 11-0 run to get back in the game.Up to 16-0 and Buckeyes in the lead.
The more Jalen Rose talks, the better they playIt annoys me that FOX is celebrating the Fab Five without mentioning that everything they did was vacated because they were the center of the biggest cheating scandal in the modern history of college basketball.
Dammit sounds like Rose is done talking. I'm not sure Michigan scored when he was onRight on cue, he shuts up and the 16-0 run ends.
Right on cue, he shuts up and the 16-0 run ends.Call Jimmy King to come on!
No need to assume the worst.. Mark the OSU W in on 1/15 right now.. You'll see why after you watch the game. UM program in shambles.Juwan Howard:
Juwan Howard:Just hanging my hat on my trophy.. I was wrong on my prediction trophy. Sorry about that one.
"My program is in shambles, we've lost five straight including home losses to Penn State, Minnesota, and something called McNeese, Ohio State can't lose this."
Chris Holtmann:
"It is still January, watch this."
Just hanging my hat on my trophy.. I was wrong on my prediction trophy. Sorry about that one.If you don't follow the Buckeyes closely it is hard to realize the magnitude of their ability to suck in January. Heck, @MaximumSam (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1572) does follow them closely and even he is still trying to deny it.
So, who do we thing Ross will make a run at??
?My phone keeps messing up that auto correct, but Ross refers to the new Ohio State A.D. and I’m interested who he tries to hire.
Ross Bjork from aTm?That’s the reporting
Terrible hire, if true.
That’s the reporting?
?<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here's our story on Ohio State targeting Texas A&M's Ross Bjork as the next athletic director. It will mark a distinct shift from the retiring Gene Smith and his extensive tree. It would also signal new direction under president Ted Carter. <a href="https://t.co/JI2HEVM8Ua">https://t.co/JI2HEVM8Ua</a></p>— Pete Thamel (@PeteThamel) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteThamel/status/1746976535808975009?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 15, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Ross Bjork from aTm?All I can do is hope he learned his lesson from the massive mistake he made with Jimbo.
Terrible hire, if true.
All I can do is hope he learned his lesson from the massive mistake he made with Jimbo.10 year 95 million dollar contract to Chris Holtmann, dedicated to MedinaBuckeye1
10 year 95 million dollar contract to Chris Holtmann, dedicated to MedinaBuckeye1I don't want them to give THAT big of a contract to Holtmann's replacement let alone Holtmann.
Pending any disagreement on tiers, here is what I have:The only upsets since I posted this on Friday were Maryland winning in Champagne-Urbana and Iowa winning in Minneapolis so I will wait until Friday to update.Based on those, there have only been four upsets:
- Wisconsin, Illinois, Purdue, Michigan State
- Northwestern, Nebraska, Iowa
- Minnesota, Ohio State, Rutgers
- Indiana, Penn State, Maryland, Michigan
(https://i.imgur.com/pSdfgX6.png)
The projected final standings/seeds for the BTT are:
- 17-3/25-6 Wisconsin
- 15-5/26-5 Purdue, wins tie over IL based on record against UW, IL does not host the Badgers
- 15-5/24-7 Illinois
- 14-6/22-9 Michigan State
- 13-7/22-9 Northwestern, wins tie over IA and UNL based on H2H2H of 2-1, no game in Iowa City
- 13-7/21-10 Iowa, second in tie with NU and UNL based on H2H2H of 1-1, no game in Lincoln and does not host the Cats
- 13-7/23-8 Nebraska, last in tie with NU and IA based on H2H2H of 1-2, does not host Iowa
- 9-11/18-13 Minnesota
- 7-13/15/16 Rutgers, wins tie with tOSU based on record against the 13-7 teams
- 7-13/17-14 Ohio State
- 5-15/11-20 Penn State, wins tie with IU based on record against Michigan, no game in Ann Arbor
- 5-15/13-18 Indiana
- 4-16/12-19 Maryland
- 3-17/8-23 Michigan
Based on that, the match-ups for the B1G Tournament at the Target Center in Minneapolis, Minnesota would be:
Wednesday, March 13 (Peacock):Thursday, March 14 (BTN):
- #11 Penn State vs #14 Michigan, 9pm
- #12 Indiana vs #13 Maryland, 630
Friday, March 15 (BTN):
- #5 Northwestern vs IU/UMD, 230pm
- #6 Iowa vs PSU/M, 9pm
- #7 Nebraska vs #10 Ohio State, 630pm
- #8 Minnesota vs #9 Rutgers, noon
Saturday, March 16 (CBS):
- #1 Wisconsin vs MN/RU, noon
- #2 Purdue vs UNL/tOSU, 630pm
- #3 Illinois vs IA/PSU/M, 9pm
- #4 Michigan State vs NU/IU/UMD, 230pm
Sunday, St. Patrick's Day, March 17 (CBS):
- UW/MN/RU vs MSU/NU/IU/UMD, 1pm
- PU/UNL/tOSU vs IL/IA/PSU/M, 330pm
- UW/MN/RU/MSU/NU/IU/UMD vs PU/UNL/tOSU/IL/IA/PSU/M, 330pm
leaving a spot for Nebraska???According to Lunardi/ESPN, yes!
I was wondering when UW would catch one of those random losses because the Big 10 is a good league and most teams can get you on a given night.I didn't feel good about this game going in, so I'm not bummed.
Was hoping it would come later, but here we are.
In this topsy-turvey world, it's nice when things return to a level of normalcy:I was at the game last night in enemy territory .... it was a glorious night, also entertaining to see the IU fans lose their minds in their first after every foul call.
Purdue in the hunt for the Big Ten title and Indiana fans wanting to fire their coach.
All is good.
Tier 1 Penn StateLoL
I still say Iowa should be Tier 3 ... Purdue is going to be favored by double digits Saturday at IowaThe difference is the projected result in home games against tier-1 and road games against tier-4 so potentially eight games but Iowa does not host MSU so we are down to seven:
The difference is the projected result in home games against tier-1 and road games against tier-4 so potentially eight games but Iowa does not host MSU so we are down to seven:I would say 3-4 or worse, but who the hell knows this year. I see them losing those 3, plus 1 of the other 4, just not sure which one.Their home loss to M and their road win at MN would be upsets either way so it is just a question of what you think they will do in the seven games listed above. If you think 4-3 or better, tier-2. If you think 3-4 or worse, tier-3.
- vs PU, 1/20
- at M, 1/27
- at IU, 1/30
- at PSU, 2/8
- at UMD, 2/14
- vs UW, 2/17
- vs IL, 3/10
Seems like we went a decade plus where the home team always won, to the road team winning quite a bunch recentlyStarting with the 2004-05 season the home team won 12 in a row, and 18 of 20. Since then the road team has won 7 of 9
LoLI'm still thinking that Maryland moves up to tier 3. It's true that it wouldn't change their current +1 status, and as you noted, all of the bottom tier teams have more chances for upsets, but at the same time they are the only team at the bottom who has a ROAD upset against a tier 1 team. Kinda implies they have the potential to be pretty good.
I'll but updating the tiers and projection on Friday so looking for input but at this point no changes appear to be needed. Current tiers:The numbers listed are for upsets relative to the projections. Upsets so far have been:
- UW (+1/-1), PU, IL -1, MSU -1
- Iowa (+1/-1), NU, UNL
- MN (+1/-1), tOSU, RU
- PSU +1, IU +1, UMD +1, M -1 (+1/-2)
(https://i.imgur.com/MFQ5P1N.png)
Note that all 14 teams are within +/-1:We have three teams in tier-1 with negative upsets and all four teams in tier-4 have a positive upset. That is fairly common because tier-1 teams have 15 or 16 chances to be upset and only four or five chances to get an upset while tier-4 teams have 15 or 16 chances to get an upset and only four or five chances to be upset.
- PSU, IU, and UMD are +1 with one positive upset each
- PU, NU, UNL, tOSU, and RU are even with no upsets
- UW, IA, and MN are even with one up and one down
- IL, and MSU are -1 with one negative upset
- Michigan is the wildcard, they are -1 with one up and two down
I'm still thinking that Maryland moves up to tier 3. It's true that it wouldn't change their current +1 status, and as you noted, all of the bottom tier teams have more chances for upsets, but at the same time they are the only team at the bottom who has a ROAD upset against a tier 1 team. Kinda implies they have the potential to be pretty good.I guess the question for me is whether the win at Illinois signals that UMD has figured things out and is a good team going forward or if that is just a random weird night where they played really well and stole a game. Too early to tell IMHO.
I think Maryland's problem is that they had a somewhat disastrous OOC record. I think they are improving a bit since then.
Don't get me wrong, I don't see them being a threat to winning the BT this year, at all but I think they are definitely a little better than PSU and Michigan.
@medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) I think Maryland has figured something out, they are playing much better, Scott is hitting outside shots, Young is a stud ... I would move them to Tier 3 moving forward as I think they are going to do much better the balance of the season. I am just hoping the sports book takes a few games to figure that out.Yeah improving Maryland team + MSU road struggles this weekend
Cornhuskers and Scarlett Knights coming down to the final minute in PiscatawayHoiberg settling in Tier 5
@medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) I think Maryland has figured something out, they are playing much better, Scott is hitting outside shots, Young is a stud ... I would move them to Tier 3 moving forward as I think they are going to do much better the balance of the season. I am just hoping the sports book takes a few games to figure that out.Agreed. I said yesterday:
For this one, I think we should decide based on the result of their game in Evanston tonight. If they win they obviously move up because they'd be +2. If they lose a close one, I'd still move them up, but if they get run off the court then I think they stay where they are until proven otherwise.They didn't win but they were awfully close. They lost by three and it was a one or two possession game almost all night long. I'll move them up for the update which I will do tomorrow.
Hoiberg settling in Tier 5Disagree. Losses like that hurt but it was an EXTREMELY close loss on the road and Rutgers isn't great but they aren't entirely terrible. Not the end of the world.
Disagree. Losses like that hurt but it was an EXTREMELY close loss on the road and Rutgers isn't great but they aren't entirely terrible. Not the end of the world.Nebraska needs to win these moving forward if they are going to make the tourney.
| [th][/th] |
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| (https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/ncaa/500/275.png&h=40&w=40) (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/275/wisconsin-badgers)11Wisconsin Badgers (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/275/wisconsin-badgers) |
| (https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/ncaa/500/2509.png&h=40&w=40) (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2509/purdue-boilermakers)2Purdue Boilermakers (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2509/purdue-boilermakers) |
| (https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/ncaa/500/77.png&h=40&w=40) (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/77/northwestern-wildcats)Northwestern Wildcats (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/77/northwestern-wildcats) |
| (https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/ncaa/500/356.png&h=40&w=40) (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/356/illinois-fighting-illini)14Illinois Fighting Illini (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/356/illinois-fighting-illini) |
| (https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/ncaa/500/84.png&h=40&w=40) (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/84/indiana-hoosiers)Indiana Hoosiers (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/84/indiana-hoosiers) |
| (https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/ncaa/500/2294.png&h=40&w=40) (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2294/iowa-hawkeyes)Iowa Hawkeyes (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2294/iowa-hawkeyes) |
| (https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/ncaa/500/135.png&h=40&w=40) (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/135/minnesota-golden-gophers)Minnesota Golden Gophers (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/135/minnesota-golden-gophers) |
| (https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/ncaa/500/120.png&h=40&w=40) (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/120/maryland-terrapins)Maryland Terrapins (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/120/maryland-terrapins) |
| (https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/ncaa/500/158.png&h=40&w=40) (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/158/nebraska-cornhuskers)Nebraska Cornhuskers (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/158/nebraska-cornhuskers) |
| (https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/ncaa/500/213.png&h=40&w=40) (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/213/penn-state-nittany-lions)Penn State Nittany Lions (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/213/penn-state-nittany-lions) |
| (https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/ncaa/500/130.png&h=40&w=40) (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/130/michigan-wolverines)Michigan Wolverines (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/130/michigan-wolverines) |
| (https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/ncaa/500/194.png&h=40&w=40) (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/194/ohio-state-buckeyes)Ohio State Buckeyes (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/194/ohio-state-buckeyes) |
| (https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/ncaa/500/127.png&h=40&w=40) (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/127/michigan-state-spartans)Michigan State Spartans (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/127/michigan-state-spartans) |
| (https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/ncaa/500/164.png&h=40&w=40) (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/164/rutgers-scarlet-knights)Rutgers Scarlet Knights (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/164/rutgers-scarlet-knights) |
I say leave them as they are for now.Well @boilerbanger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=56) I do see the argument but so far none of their games where it matters have been played. They host Purdue tomorrow. If they lose we'll move them down with the next update.
This creates a real pickle for Underwood, you play him and he ends being found guilty you get absolutely crushed by media and may cost your job, the angry mob will want blood and someone will take the hit. But if he is cleared how would they not play him. Serious risk here for underwood and the university reputations.I view it differently. I think the lawsuit was basically theater. It gives Underwood cover. He has an ironclad defense for playing him, a judge ordered him to.
I view it differently. I think the lawsuit was basically theater. It gives Underwood cover. He has an ironclad defense for playing him, a judge ordered him to.I agree. Illinois can say they suspended him, but now they have a court order. I'd be shocked if they didn't play him. I'd be shocked if any school didn't play him now.
I was 31 years old the last time Indiana won in Madison.Aside from that 9-0 run to cut it from 16 to 7 early in the 2nd, Wisconsin was in total control.
I'm 57.
Aside from that 9-0 run to cut it from 16 to 7 early in the 2nd, Wisconsin was in total control.Still mad at the defense. Was ragged.
Klesmit responded to that IU run with a one man 14-2 run
I would say that Penn State used up all their good shot making against the Badgers, but technically their only basket was an absolute prayer.I'd say weird things happen on the road, but it was BJC, so I guess weird things happen in empty gyms
On the other hand, they have only one bucket as compared to two TV timeouts. So that’s not good for them.
I know medina has thought about how to do a tournament with 18, that includes all teams. How about thisSo, using his projections, but slotting in the Pac 12 teams, based on Ken Pom...
Make sure the regular season ends on Saturday.
Top 6 teams advance to Chicago/Indy
Then Monday-Wednesday you have two separate 6 team tournaments, hosted by the #7 and #8 teams.
#7 tournament: #7 and #10 gets byes, #11 vs. #18, #14 vs. #15
#8 tournament: #8 and #9 get byes, #12 vs. #17, #13 vs. #16
Then the two winners jump in as the #7 and #8 seeds in the 8 team BTT in Chicago/Indy, starting on Friday
So, using his projections, but slotting in the Pac 12 teams, based on Ken Pom...This would work out particularly well if the hosts were from different time zones, especially if they were as divergent as possible. Using this as the example:
- Wisconsin
- Purdue
- Illinois
- Michigan State
- Iowa
- Nebraska
Those teams advance to the weekend, joined by the #7 and #8 seeds, based on the winners of the two campus tourneys
- EUGENE REGION
- #14 Penn State vs. #15 Ohio State; winner vs. #7 Oregon
- #11 Maryland vs. #18 UCLA; winner vs. #10 Minnesota
- EVANSTON REGION
- #12 USC vs. #17 Michigan; winner vs. #8 Northwestern
- #13 Rutgers vs. #16 Indiana; winner vs. #9 Washington
Matt Painter warned about thisI would suspect the conference will take some sort of action moving forward.
Caitlin had a rough day
I would suspect the conference will take some sort of action moving forward.People had fun at a game. Someone had better stop such nonsense.
Some rando trying to film herself storming the court ran over Caitlin Clark. Really what are the odds.Lost in all the noise about the court storming and Caitlin Clark running into/being run into by a fan is that this was a humongous win for the Buckeyes and a pretty big deal for the league race.
I think I’m more in line with you on that. I first saw the far away angle and it looked like an accident. The closer shot looks like Clark initiates contact and then does this overly dramatic spin and fall to the ground.
She clearly tried to shove the fan with both hands.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWulT2LxDto
:d030:
The difference is the projected result in home games against tier-1 and road games against tier-4 so potentially eight games but Iowa does not host MSU so we are down to seven:This was my response to @boilerbanger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=56) 's suggestion that we move Iowa down to Tier-3 from Tier-2.Their home loss to M and their road win at MN would be upsets either way so it is just a question of what you think they will do in the seven games listed above. If you think 4-3 or better, tier-2. If you think 3-4 or worse, tier-3.
- vs PU, 1/20
- at M, 1/27
- at IU, 1/30
- at PSU, 2/8
- at UMD, 2/14
- vs UW, 2/17
- vs IL, 3/10
I’ve done a 180 on this. The more I watch it, the more I think it’s all Clark.Not arguing with you on this, but I would say the player should not be put in this position.
Ohio State managed to win a January game today . . . But it was a home game against Penn State so don't get too excited. That said, Ohio State pretty thoroughly dominated the game and led from start to finish.Thoughts on this anyone?
The Buckeyes are now 13-5/3-4 and on the bubble according to most projected brackets. In order to make the dance they will need to improve substantially. They are Tier-3 because they are 0-4 in games that a Tier-2 team should win and a Tier-3 team should lose (@PSU, @IU, vsUW, @M). Here are the rest of their games followed by the Tier-3 projection and projected cumulative record then what the projection would be for a Tier-2 team and the projected cumulative record that way:
- At Nebraska, L 13-6/3-5, L 13-6/3-5
- At Northwestern, L 13-7/3-6, L 13-7/3-6
- Vs Illinois, L 13-8/3-7, W 14-7/4-6
- At Iowa, L 13-9/3-8, L 14-8/4-7
- Vs Indiana, W 14-9/4-8, W 15-8/5-7
- Vs Maryland, W 15-9/5-8, W 16-8/6-7
- At Wisconsin, L 15-10/5-9, L 16-9/6-8
- Vs Purdue, L 15-11/5-10, W 17-9/7-8
- At Minnesota, L 15-12/5-11, L 17-10/7-9
- At Michigan State, L 15-13/5-12, L 17-11/7-10
- Vs Nebraska, W 16-13/6-12, W 18-11/8-10
- Vs Michigan, W 17-13/7-12, W 19-11/9-10
- At Rutgers, L 17-14/7-13, L 19-12/10-10
Bottom line:
If the Buckeyes continue to perform like a Tier-3 B1G team they will miss the Tournament. At 17-14/7-13:they would likely start on Wednesday and even a run all the way to the CG would only get them to 21-15.
If the Buckeyes improve and perform at a Tier-2 level from here out they'll hit the BTT on the bubble at 19-12/10-10. They'll need to AT LEAST win their Thursday BTT opener and an additional win in the quarter-final on Friday would probably lock down a tournament berth.
What they really need is to perform like a Tier-1 team the rest of the way (don't laugh, they have Tier-1 talent the problem is Tier-5 coaching). That would switch the following losses to wins:That would take them to 22-9/13-7 and they'd be a lock.
- At Iowa
- At Minnesota
- At Rutgers
Not arguing with you on this, but I would say the player should not be put in this position.As a Buckeye, I'll admit to this. Clark was in a place where she was supposed to be, the random fan who ran into her wasn't.
I read somewhere it wasn't a fan but an OSU employee recording the court storming. Not sure if that is real or speculationI don't buy it. Now if you told me it was a Michigan employee recording, that would check out
Not arguing with you on this, but I would say the player should not be put in this position.Yeah, and I can’t disagree with that. If you eliminate court storming it isn’t an issue.
Yeah, and I can’t disagree with that. If you eliminate court storming it isn’t an issue.She looked like a sore loser, which is not a good luck for someone in her position.
Not arguing with you on this, but I would say the player should not be put in this position.perhaps not but, players have been put in this position since the 1800's
She looked like a sore loser, which is not a good luck for someone in her position.It is not but I saw a clip of her postgame interview and I thought she handled it pretty well there.
It is not but I saw a clip of her postgame interview and I thought she handled it pretty well there.I saw her postgame interview and when I juxtapose that with the video I want to roll my eyes out of my skull.
Even if we accept that she DID look to shove someone then flop to make it look better, those are heat of the moment decisions that she was put in the position to make completely unexpectedly so mistakes there seem pretty minor and it seems kinda nit-picky to criticize those so long as it wasn't horrible behavior (it wasn't) and so long as she cleaned up reasonably well afterward I don't think there is much reason to criticize the Iowa star at this point.
Tonight we have:The part in bold is a typo, that was supposed to be "+17.5" but it looks kinda funny that way.
- Michigan ×17.5 at Purdue at 9pm on Peacock
The next few weeks are interesting because they will very much define whether Wisconsin is going to be in a good position to win the league coming down the stretch or if they just benefitted from an easier front end of the schedule.The other side of this equation (IMHO) is your Boilermakers. I'm curious what is your and @boilerbanger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=56) 's view of your team?
Ohio State is 3-4 and has looked flat awful for the last six weeks. The question for the Buckeyes is if they can put that behind them and start performing up to their talent rather than down to their coaching. We project them to finish 7-13/17-14 so they need three or four unexpected wins to get to the right side of the bubble. Tonight would be a great time to start accumulating those.LoL. Make it 3-5. The Chris Holtmann farewell tour heads to Evanston Saturday evening.
LoL. Make it 3-5. The Chris Holtmann farewell tour heads to Evanston Saturday evening.The bleeding out carries on.
The bleeding out carries on.That is all it is at this point.
Wisconsin played a nice first half and a garbage second half. Managed to win by the skin of their teeth. We will take the road win though.Any road win is a good win.
Also, former UW assistant Lamont Paris led SC to a dominant upset of Kentucky. That was cool.
Any road win is a good win.What is this "road win" of which you speak?
That is all it is at this point.I dunno what the new AD thinks. This is a young team that can return everyone except for Battle and Bonner I think, and in college basketball experience counts for a lot. That would certainly be what Holtmann will say. Might be in Holtmann's best interest to find a new job, Tubby Smith style, and see which players will come with him.
The new AD made some remarks and made it clear that Day is on solid ground but was tepid about Holtmann.
At this point Holtmann is a dead man walking. I would assume that even @MaximumSam (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1572) will concede that now or perhaps after another loss or two.
I dunno what the new AD thinks. This is a young team that can return everyone except for Battle and Bonner I think, and in college basketball experience counts for a lot. That would certainly be what Holtmann will say. Might be in Holtmann's best interest to find a new job, Tubby Smith style, and see which players will come with him.Where?
Where?Depaul is in the Big East but is 3-15 and 0-7 in the conference. There are many programs in way, way worse shape than Ohio State.
Definitely not a guy in high demand at this point.
And DePaul just did what?Fired their coach. Hence they need one.
Depaul is in the Big East but is 3-15 and 0-7 in the conference. There are many programs in way, way worse shape than Ohio State.Of course there are programs in worse shape than Ohio State but this statement is utterly meaningless.
Matt Norlander wrote an article for CBS yesterday about just how awful the DePaul job is.DePaul's reasonable program expectations are pretty low, MUCH lower than Ohio State's.
They are about to extend their tourneyless streak to 20 years.
Stanford and Wisconsin have the record for P6 schools at 47 years, but it was almost entirely in smaller tournament eras. Since the tourney went to 64 teams in 1985, the only longer streaks are Rutgers (30 years from 1991-2021) and Oregon State (26 years from 1990-2016). Baylor and TCU both had 20 year droughts.
Baylor would have had a record 58 year streak, but they made it once between 1950-2008, in 1988. So they wound up with a 38 year streak and a 20 year streak
Matt Norlander wrote an article for CBS yesterday about just how awful the DePaul job is.I read that. One of the names on his list intrigues me as a coach at OSU, which is Indiana State's head coach.
They are about to extend their tourneyless streak to 20 years.
Stanford and Wisconsin have the record for P6 schools at 47 years, but it was almost entirely in smaller tournament eras. Since the tourney went to 64 teams in 1985, the only longer streaks are Rutgers (30 years from 1991-2021) and Oregon State (26 years from 1990-2016). Baylor and TCU both had 20 year droughts.
Baylor would have had a record 58 year streak, but they made it once between 1950-2008, in 1988. So they wound up with a 38 year streak and a 20 year streak
DePaul will dip into the mid-majors to find a coach.Sure, they don't have the option of doing anything other than that. But it's the type of things coaches sometimes do when it isn't working out and they don't want to get canned. Tubby going from Kentucky to Minnesota was a famous one. More recently, Shaka Smart going from Texas to Marquette. Not that Holtmann has any connections to Depaul but they would probably welcome him with open arms if he wanted to be there. They would kill for a competent if unexceptional program right now.
(https://i.imgur.com/WCZfA9L.png)Not to take anything away from Gard, he is a good coach, but this list doesn't take into account the status of the programs at the time they took over. Gard took over a team that went 32-3 (16-2) the year before and Tom Izzo took over a team that went 22-6 (14-4). On the other side, Beilein took over a somewhat "meh" NIT level Michigan team that went 22-13 (8-8) the year before and Painter took over a floundering Purdue program that was 9-19 (3-13). Bo Ryan is probably the more impressive name on that list. While Benet did a good job of getting Wisconsin out of the 0.500 level team that they were in the 80's to a 22 win level team, Ryan is the one took the program to the next level pretty quickly.
Not to take anything away from Gard, he is a good coach, but this list doesn't take into account the status of the programs at the time they took over. Gard took over a team that went 32-3 (16-2) the year before and Tom Izzo took over a team that went 22-6 (14-4). On the other side, Beilein took over a somewhat "meh" NIT level Michigan team that went 22-13 (8-8) the year before and Painter took over a floundering Purdue program that was 9-19 (3-13). Bo Ryan is probably the more impressive name on that list. While Benet did a good job of getting Wisconsin out of the 0.500 level team that they were in the 80's to a 22 win level team, Ryan is the one took the program to the next level pretty quickly.I'd also mention that Gard is the exact same age as Painter (53) but Painter took over the Purdue program in 2005 while Gard took over Wisconsin in 2015, a decade older and with more experience than Painter.
Not to take anything away from Gard, he is a good coach, but this list doesn't take into account the status of the programs at the time they took over. Gard took over a team that went 32-3 (16-2) the year before and Tom Izzo took over a team that went 22-6 (14-4). On the other side, Beilein took over a somewhat "meh" NIT level Michigan team that went 22-13 (8-8) the year before and Painter took over a floundering Purdue program that was 9-19 (3-13). Bo Ryan is probably the more impressive name on that list. While Benet did a good job of getting Wisconsin out of the 0.500 level team that they were in the 80's to a 22 win level team, Ryan is the one took the program to the next level pretty quickly.I agree 100% and I'll add that Pat Richter deserves a lot more credit and accolades than he's ever gotten. He made the hires that took Wisconsin Football and Basketball from doormat and middling respectively to regular conference contender.
I'd also mention that Gard is the exact same age as Painter (53) but Painter took over the Purdue program in 2005 while Gard took over Wisconsin in 2015, a decade older and with more experience than Painter.It feels weird comparing them. Obviously a lot of differences. Painter had that one year of HC work, then got the “in-waiting” job.
Now, Purdue fans can probably endlessly debate whether Painter was hired to be HC while "too young" or "not experienced enough", but I think we can all agree that there was an extent to which that experience had to be learned on the job after only a single season as the "transition coach in waiting" behind Keady who was on his way out with a bad team. While Gard spent ~14 years under the DIRECT tutelage of Ryan, gaining first-hand experience as he watched how a successful program is run.
I think most Purdue fans see Painter's early years finding his way as the necessary investment to have the guy we have now...
Like you, I don't say that as a criticism of Gard. We've seen NUMEROUS examples of an assistant coach inheriting a program from one of the greats the results start faltering once the last guy's recruits start graduating and they have to make the program their own. Gard has avoided that, which makes me think he's an excellent coach in his own right.
Didn't Keady get to a sweet 16 in his last season?No. After an elite eight run in 2000, ended by Wisconsin, they had about a five year dip.
When did Bruce Weber leave for SIU?
No. After an elite eight run in 2000, ended by Wisconsin, they had about a five year dip.Very true. That team wasn't going anywhere, and Gard made them very good, very quickly.
Not that Bo handed things off in tip top shape.
Didn't Keady get to a sweet 16 in his last season?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Purdue_Boilermakers_men%27s_basketball_seasons
When did Bruce Weber leave for SIU?
Jud also retired when he did, because MSU was losing it's two NBA players. That 95-96 roster was no bueno.Gard had one to get his job.
IMO, Belein's is BY FAR the most impressive.
Also funny that both Belein and Painter had midseason turnarounds that likely saved their jobs. Beilein in 2011 and Painter in 2015
Almost made the elite 8 too. That shot by FL was incredible.That was the next year. That year they were up 3 late but had a bad sequence, gave up a lay-up, Nigel effed up splitting a double and then Bronson got picked coming up the court. Not fun.
(https://i.imgur.com/WCZfA9L.png)IMHO, Ryan is by for the most impressive here. @grillrat (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=11) talked about the status of the programs at the time these coaches took over and I agree but then that veered into a discussion of the VERY short-term status when these guys took over. Yes, Gard took over a team that looked questionable THAT year and Painter took over a program that had clearly fallen off a bit in Keady's last few years but both of them still took over programs that had a LOT of history of success. AFAIK, Ryan really didn't.
Huge game in Madison tonight - MSU. They will want revenge.Yup. Next three games for UW decide if they are in the drivers seat or coming down the home stretch neck-and-neck.
Then @UNL followed by PU at home.
Gotta take 2 of 3 if you're UW.
This makes it hard to sandbag. Real hard.You win a lot of games by shooting 51% from the field, and collecting 40% of your misses.
You win a lot of games by shooting 51% from the field, and collecting 40% of your misses.That was the old Izzo playbook.
That was the old Izzo playbook.https://twitter.com/jaypo1961/status/1751297214205341724?t=I3tKsXfpJ1kdUzz3oCvncw&s=19
https://twitter.com/jaypo1961/status/1751297214205341724?t=I3tKsXfpJ1kdUzz3oCvncw&s=19Ehhhh, that felt like a certain kind of coach speak. I love Chucky, but he has some gaps in his game when it comes to the position at UW.
Remember back when Ohio State had a better Basketball program than Northwestern?I tend to put off saying a team has given up.
I tend to put off saying a team has given up.This is an absolute embarrassment.
However, in this case ...
Woof. Any road win is a good win I guess.Yes
Woof. Any road win is a good win I guess.What are these road wins of which you speak?
My team is 13-7/3-6 with one tier 1/2 win. Here are the rest of their games along with projection (from tiers):17-14 is such a deeply unsatisfying record, although the BTT means that you won't have that at season's end.
- 1/30 vs IL, L, 13-8/3-7
- 2/2 at IA, L, 13-9/3-8
- 2/6 vs IU, W, 14-9/4-8
- 2/10 vs UMD, W, 15-9/5-8
- 2/13 at UW, L, 15-10/5-9
- 2/18 vs PU, L, 15-11/5-10
- 2/22 at MN, L, 15-12/5-11
- 2/25 at MSU, L, 15-13/5-12
- 2/29 vs UNL, W, 16-13/6-12
- 3/3 vs M, W, 17-13/7-12
- 3/10 at RU, L, 17-14/7-13
Without a shocking run in Minneapolis I'm thinking they need three wins above the projection to have a pretty good shot at the Tournament.
I'm also worried about the projected wins. At this point I think the chances that the Terps win in Columbus are better than 50/50, same for UNL. The Buckeyes probably have a better than 50/50 chance against IU and should beat Michigan but rivalries are strange.
As bad as this team has looked for the last (almost) two months it is really hard to see a path to the Tournament but January is almost over so maybe?
In either case, it probably not happening. Soon the coach will be gone and our long board nightmare of talking about the coach will mercifully be over.Sorry for that, at least I moved it to a thread by itself so you don't have to read through it in this thread.
Sorry for that, at least I moved it to a thread by itself so you don't have to read through it in this thread.It’s ok. In the sort of swirl of message board logic, I’d just like it done.
17-14 is such a deeply unsatisfying record, although the BTT means that you won't have that at season's end.Agreed (with minor edits) on final records:
18-14 means you can whine about being a bubble team. 17-15 means you know you're cooked. But 17-14 means you're cooked, but you can maybe just try to convince yourself a bunch of crazy stuff should happen.
OSU's second-biggest disadvantage, other than the record, is a real lack of quality wins. A single win in the top two quadrants. If they manage to get to 20-13, that would leave them 5-11 in the top two quadrants, albeit without a bad loss. I think that's wrong side of the bubble territory.
Wisconsin all the way up to #6 in the newest poll. Illinois down to #14. Purdue holds at #2.That's nuts and lazy by the voters. They are not the 6th best team in the country.
Northwestern is the only other Big Ten team even receiving votes
That's nuts and lazy by the voters. They are not the 6th best team in the country.Ehh. Are there a set of teams behind them that you think should be ahead?
That said, they could be. Lots of potential. They aren't there yet.
Duke. Kentucky. Kansas. Arizona.It’s interesting, UW would likely be favored against three of those first four on a neutral.
All are better than UW IMO (and AZ proved it by 25 points).
Maybe ISU too.
#6 doesn't lose at Penn State.Arizona lost at Oregon State. Kentucky lost at home to UNC Wilmington
Yes, the Badgers are winning a lot.
The Big Ten kinda sucks.
Arizona lost at Oregon State. Kentucky lost at home to UNC WilmingtonKansas lost of UCF and WVU. Duke lost to Arkansas, Ga. Tech. It's rough out there.
Kansas lost of UCF and WVU. Duke lost to Arkansas, Ga. Tech. It's rough out there.There is also a lot of sandbagging on this board, LoL.
I think the change in thought for Badge might need to be this. Sometimes, No. 6 means "Wow, that team has battled its way into the Top 10." And sometimes it's "Wow, I can only find five teams that I know are better than a jumble, and this one seems to come out of the jumble."
And the ultimate takeaway is that week-to-week polls are frivolities and entertainment, little else.
Iowa tried to get a road winIllinois got one.
it was close
Michigan just made their 3rd shot of the 2nd half, with 7 minutes left. The odd friendly road whistle is the only thing keeping them even mildly in the gameFire Juwann Howard.
Illinois got one.Iowa isn't as good as Illinois.
Did you watch that game? That was not Purdue struggling (except at the free throw line, Zach in particular had a really bad game at the stripe). That was Northwestern throwing up every piece of garbage and having their prayers answered, especially behind the arc.Yeah, that's college basketball, as I've lamented otherwise. It's essentially who can make 3s. They aren't well designed, and 3pt defense is not a real thing. It was Northwestern hitting every 3 vs. Purdue getting every call
By my count there were four NBA 3's, well defended, that were shot with 0.5 seconds left on the clock that went in. Nw shot 14/27 from 3 and 56% overall. You don't lose many games when you shoot that well.
I know we have a lot of Purdue fans here and I don't think we have any Northwestern fans (I miss @nuwildcat (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=28) ) but you have to feel for Northwestern fans, that is a rough way to lose. To have the #2 team in the Nation on the ropes in their own building then lose in OT is painful.This is where I disagree with ELA. Last year, Purdue loses that game. It's the improved guard play of Jones and Loyer (Loyer is not great, but still better than last year) that has kept Purdue from losing several games this year.
And yes, the free throw disparity was large, but A) 10 of those free throws were in the last 30 seconds of overtime when NW was intentionally fouling / technical shots. and B) That's also the difference when you drive / shoot points in the paint versus taking nearly 30 shots from behind the arc.Just take the ref win when you get it. We all get it at times
Just take the ref win when you get it. We all get it at times@ Home
@ HomeI've always said that if you complain about a road whistle in basketball, you don't watch enough basketball. If you get a foul disparity at home, go ahead and bitch.
Badgers in Lincoln tonight is a pick.I'll do a full update to the projections after tonight's UW/UNL game but last night's PSU@RU upset rearranges things substantially because they were projected to finish a game apart and both in ties so:
Purdue needs a 46-8 FT advantage to beat Northwestern in OT.@ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) I couldn’t disagree with you more on the freshman guard improvement. I think smith has made a significant jump this year and Loyer has improved as well in his efficiency. lance Jones is a perfect piece to the puzzle we needed for a ball handler. Our 3 pt shot g has gone from 32.5% last year to 40% this year. This years team is better, no doubt in my mind.
I do believe Edey is better this year, and they are coaching the defense around him better this year. But the freshmen have not made the leap I anticipated. I actually think this team is worse than last year's. Granted that's still enough to maybe be the best team in the Big Ten, and still one of the 5 best teams in the country. So in a single elimination tournament, they should still be fine, but something seems slightly off.
With the caveats that they will beat MSU by 30 in Mackey, which even happens when MSU is great and Purdue sucks
Nw shot 14/27 from 3 and 56% overall. You don't lose many games when you shoot that well.To add to this, apparently there was a graphic on the BTN postgame coverage that talked about this (taken from the Purdue Rivals board):
You can tell this is the non football weekend, with the conferences putting a bunch of marquee games this weekendHeh. I think Wisconsin was picked to finish 5-8 depending on where you look. I think it's an accident, otherwise they'd have played PU/MSU this weekend as those were the consensus top 2.
- #2 Purdue at #6 Wisconsin
- #3 North Carolina at #7 Duke
- #4 Houston at #8 Kansas
- #5 Tennessee at #10 Kentucky
Too bad #1 UConn isn't playing #9 Marquette. Then all top 10 teams would play each other
Heh. I think Wisconsin was picked to finish 5-8 depending on where you look. I think it's an accident, otherwise they'd have played PU/MSU this weekend as those were the consensus top 2.They only play once this year, and it's in Mackey. You can just look up how MSU fares in that building, to see why it's not going to be a marquee game, even if MSU had lived up to preseason expectations
I’m feeling a UW loss? Maybe?I think FC depth will win. They will certainly miss Kamari McGee for this one, to give Chucky a break.
I think FC depth will win. They will certainly miss Kamari McGee for this one, to give Chucky a break.It’s a weird offense/defense thing, in my eyes.
I do believe Edey is better this year, and they are coaching the defense around him better this year. But the freshmen have not made the leap I anticipated. I actually think this team is worse than last year's. Granted that's still enough to maybe be the best team in the Big Ten, and still one of the 5 best teams in the country. So in a single elimination tournament, they should still be fine, but something seems slightly off.A few weeks ago I asked the Purdue fans what they thought of their team and I was mildly surprised at the optimism in response.
A few weeks ago I asked the Purdue fans what they thought of their team and I was mildly surprised at the optimism in response.You've seen that stat about top ten teams on the road against non-ranked teams this year though, right?
I agree with @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) . To be fair, I am (and I think he is as well) holding Purdue to a ridiculously high standard here but frankly they haven't looked as good as I expected.
They have played a tough schedule, the run in Maui was seriously impressive, and they are 20-2 so I'm certainly not saying that they are a bad team but . . . They have two losses to unranked teams and just beat unranked Northwestern at home in OT. As a fan of a dumpster 🔥, I assume my team WILL lose to Purdue but at this point I don't see that loss as substantially more certain than losses to UW and MSU.
In my many years of following Ohio State Basketball I've watched everything from train wrecks like this season and last to #1 seeds and even #1 overall seeds. I expected Purdue this year to look like the #1 seeds and maybe even like a #1 overall seed:
2010/11 Ohio State lost three games:2006/07 Ohio State lost four games:
- At #13 Wisconsin
- At #11 Purdue
- Vs #11 Kentucky in the S16 in Newark
1991/92 Ohio State lost six games:
- At #6 UNC
- At #4 Florida
- At #4 Wisconsin
- Vs #3 Florida in the NCAACG in Atlanta
- At USC (in OT, by 2)
- Swept by Indiana #5 and #7
- At Seton Hall
- At Iowa
- Vs #15, a fabulous group of paid professionals cheating their way through the NCAA Tournament in Lexington, Kentucky
That is admittedly a REALLY high bar but that is what I expected out of Purdue this year and I'm not seeing it (maybe the 91/2 team but definitely not the other two).
Even if they drop a random road game (@OSU?)Apparently you have watched less of my team than I have watched of yours.
I’m feeling a UW loss? Maybe?I saw the month changed, so I double checked, and it's now February, not March, so Purdue should still be good. :57:
@boilerbanger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=56) and @grillrat (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=11)Out of curiosity, how many players from those OSU teams were drafted? Part of the reason that Purdue is doing well is because they are playing exceptional team ball.
Maybe it is random hot nights from long range. Maybe it is parity. I don't know and I'm definitely NOT saying that Purdue isn't good, they are very good. Like I said, I'm using a REALLY high bar here. I'm comparing them to the three best Ohio State teams of my lifetime and they don't seem quite as good as I expected.
I mean I said they are still the best team in the Big Ten, and a clear top 5 team nationallyI agree . . .
Out of curiosity, how many players from those OSU teams were drafted? Part of the reason that Purdue is doing well is because they are playing exceptional team ball.I really don't follow the NBA closely enough to even take much of a guess beyond knowing a few names Jimmy Jackson from the 91/2 team, Oden and Connelly from 2007.
But at the end of their college careers, Edey might go first round, but I doubt anyone else even gets a whiff of the second round.
I really don't follow the NBA closely enough to even take much of a guess beyond knowing a few names Jimmy Jackson from the 91/2 team, Oden and Connelly from 2007.Did some digging:
Apparently Tyson Walker has a groin injury that will need surgery on the off-seasonOuch
NBA talent has never been less relevant to NCAA success. Last years NC had 2 NBA picks, one of which was late 2nd round. Michigan went to the NIT with two lottery picks, and a former Big Ten POTY and went to the NIT#FireJuwanHoward
#FireJuwanHoward#keepJuwanHoward
Huck the Fuskers.you mean the real big red
#keepJuwanHoward#extendJuwanHoward
you mean the real big redThat's in Madison.
you mean the real big red
That's in Madison.
Actually it's in Waco, TX.And it tastes like baseball card gum.
[img width=499.997 height=311.992]https://i.imgur.com/uD7MHkb.jpg[/img]
I'd move Michigan into a tier of their own.I agree but that also means that tOSU should drop a tier as well to avoid their loss in Ann Arbor being an upset with no offsetting upset wins.
Michigan state-Maryland is the sort of game guaranteed to produce close contentious basketball that only has one final outcome.First to 50 wins?
Also, Donta Scott underrated in being in college forever.
IllinoisOhio State (over IU in Women's BB)!
Wondered what happed to Luke Yaklich. His defense added to Beleins offense really fueled those last few Michigan teams. He's in his 4th year at UI-Chicago, and it's going pretty poorly. Granted they moved up from the Horizon to the MVC to fill the Chicago void, not based on merit, even though they were a bottom tier Horizon teamMaybe he can hire Beilein to coach the offense
Ohio State (over IU in Women's BB)!Finish it out and they are tied with Iowa and have the tiebreaker
winning is funThanks for the reminder. @MaximumSam (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1572) and I can only vaguely recollect winning in MBB
This Wisconsin team is...fun? Is that a real thing? That can't be real.They’d be more fun if their point guard would stop pissing me off.
Tyler Wahl might be my favorite Big Ten player to watch. Love his game. But he tried to do too much down low a few times. Granted it seems like that's one of those take the bad with the good things. Because his creativity with his post moves generally work out. Just not against the 7'4" 2x NPOTYI can kind of agree that he tried too much a few times, but this was probably about as good a game as I could expect from him in this spot.
Planned changes to tiers:Any agreement, disagreements, thoughts?
Michigan down to a new Tier-5:
They won in Iowa City but offset that with a home loss to Iowa. They also have home losses to Indiana, Minnesota, and now Rutgers.
Ohio State down to Tier-4:
I really thought that the catastrophe last year would be the worst of the Holtmann era but he is now on pace to outdo himself. This year's Ohio State team looks worse than last year and at this point they are one of the worst two teams in the league.
Not sure what to do with Penn State:
If you want to know why the Nittany Lions confuse me, just look at their last five games. They have three very good wins: Wisconsin was a good win because the Badgers are good and the other two are good wins because they were on the road in Piscataway and Bloomington. The other two games were very bad losses: Ohio State is a bad loss because Holtmann and Minnesota was a bad loss because it was at home.
Penn State now has one negative upset (home loss to Minnesota) and three positive upsets:Sounds simple, we should just move them up, right? Well not so fast. All three of those would still be upsets even if we moved them up and their home loss to Northwestern would become an upset as well.
- Home win over UW
- Win in Piscataway
- Win in Bloomington
We could move them all the way up to Tier-2. That would eliminate the Wisconsin and Indiana upsets but do you really expect them to win upcoming home games against the Illini and Spartans? Also, assuming we move tOSU down, the road loss to the Buckeyes would become an upset.
This might make a lot of sense. The only difference between the current tiers and what you proposed here is that you moved MSU down from Tier-1 into a new Tier-2 between the existing Tier-1 and Tier-2. I do get the feeling that Michigan State isn't quite as good as UW/PU/IL but they are definitively better than NU/UNL. For now they are in the tier with the top teams partially on the theory that they have Izzo so they'll be better the closer we get to March.@medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) after more thought here is what my tiers would look like with PSU trending up and IU & OSU trending down.
- Wisconsin, Purdue, Illinois
- Michigan State
- Northwestern, Nebraska
- Maryland, Minnesota, Iowa, Rutgers
- Penn State, Indiana, Ohio State
- Michigan
They’d be more fun if their point guard would stop pissing me off.Did get to watch this game (or the UNL game) but I've been reading.
That was an interesting game. Purdue is a better squad. UW needed to win more 50-50 plays or Storr needed to hit more tough shots. Neither happened, such is life.
I'm kinda in the same boat. I don't think that MSU is as good as Wisc / Ill / Pur, but I don't think I can justify moving them down yet.@medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) after more thought here is what my tiers would look like with PSU trending up and IU & OSU trending down.
- Wisconsin, Purdue, Illinois
- Michigan State
- Northwestern, Nebraska
- Maryland, Minnesota, Iowa, Rutgers
- Penn State, Indiana, Ohio State
- Michigan
Did get to watch this game (or the UNL game) but I've been reading.Hepburn? Bleached his hair. Some of it sunk into his brain.
What has happened to this kid?
I'm kinda in the same boat. I don't think that MSU is as good as Wisc / Ill / Pur, but I don't think I can justify moving them down yet.Good point. I hadn't looked that deeply into this yet but we can't put a tier in between the existing Tier-1 and Tier-2 because then NU/UNL would be expected to lose home games to UW/IL/PU and they haven't.
The problem with putting them into their own tier is that Purdue then has a -2 for the NW / NE games.
Thanks @boilerbanger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=56) (I was almost done with this post before I saw your second comment) and @grillrat (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=11) .I just can't see UW at 16-4. They've already lost 3. But I have no idea what else to do with them. Can't move them down.
The updated tiers are:The 11 upsets so far have been:
- Purdue (+1), Wisconsin (+1/-2), Illinois (-1), Michigan State (-1)
- Nebraska, Northwestern
- Maryland (+2), Minnesota (+1/-1), Iowa (+1/-2), Rutgers (-1)
- Penn State (+3/-1), Ohio State, Indiana (+1/-1)
- Michigan (+1/-1)
(https://i.imgur.com/bR9y5D3.png)
The updated projected final standings/BTT seeds are:
- 17-3/28-3 Purdue
- 16-4/24-7 Wisconsin
- 15-5/24-7 Illinois
- 14-6/22-9 Michigan State
- 13-7/23-8 Nebraska
- 12-8/21-10 Northwestern
- 9-11/18-13 Minnesota (wins tie with UMD based on H2H, no game in College Park)
- 9-11/17-14 Maryland
- 8-12/14-17 Penn State
- 7-13/15-16 Iowa (wins tie with RR based on H2H, no game in Piscataway)
- 7-13/15-16 Rutgers
- 6-14/16-15 Ohio State
- 5-15/13-18 Indiana
- 2-18/7-24 Michigan
Based on those projections, the match-ups for the B1G Tournament at the Target Center in Minneapolis, Minnesota would be:
Wednesday, March 13 (Peacock):Thursday, March 14 (BTN):
- #11 Rutgers vs #14 Michigan, 9pm
- #12 Ohio State vs #13 Indiana, 630
Friday, March 15 (BTN):
- #5 Nebraska vs tOSU/IU, 230
- #6 Northwestern vs RU/M, 9pm
- #7 Minnesota vs #10 Iowa, 630
- #8 Maryland vs #9 Penn State, noon
Saturday, March 16 (CBS):
- #1 Purdue vs UMD/PSU, noon
- #2 Wisconsin vs MN/IA, 630
- #3 Illinois vs NU/RU/M, 9pm
- #4 Michigan State vs UNL/tOSU/IU, 230
Sunday, St. Patrick's Day, March 17 (CBS):
- PU/UMD/PSU vs MSU/UNL/tOSU/IU, 1pm
- UW/MN/IA vs IL/NU/RU/M, 330
- PU/UMD/PSU/MSU/UNL/tOSU/IU vs UW/MN/IA/IL/NU/RU/M, 330
To answer @Brutus Buckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=31) 's standing question, not happening unless:
- Ohio State beats Indiana on Wednesday
- Michigan beats Rutgers on Wednesday
- Ohio State beats Nebraska on Thursday
- Michigan beats Northwestern on Thursday
- Ohio State beats Michigan State on Friday
- Michigan beats Illinois on Friday
- Ohio State beats PU/UMD/PSU on Saturday
- Michigan beats UW/MN/IA on Saturday
I just can't see UW at 16-4. They've already lost 3. But I have no idea what else to do with them. Can't move them down.Sandbagger!
(https://i.imgur.com/gyAjXHP.png)
1 loss from that? I don't see it.
Sandbagger!Torvik has 69%, 75%, 81%, 58%, 84%, 69%, 63%, 91%, 15%
LoL, seriously, it is fairly common for higher tier teams to end up with negative upsets and lower tier teams to end up with positive upsets simply because higher tier teams have more opportunities to get upset and lower tier teams have more opportunities to upset someone else. Using the tiers with UW's remaining schedule, we predict:Yeah, I don't think the Badgers are going to go 8-1 against that slate either but I also wouldn't actually pick against them in any individual game other than at Purdue. It is a statistical issue. Even if we were able to determine definitively that Wisconsin has a 90% chance of winning each of the eight games they are projected to win, there is still the issue that:
- W at M
- W at RU
- W vs tOSU
- W at Iowa
- W vs UMD
- W at IU
- W vs IL
- W vs RU
- L at PU
So even though UW has a 90% chance to win each of the games individually and you'd be nuts to pick against them in any one of those games individually, you would probably get at least one wrong if you picked them in each of the eight games.
- 90% chance to beat Michigan
- 81% chance to beat both Michigan and Rutgers
- 73% chance to beat all of M, RU, and Ohio State
- 66% chance to beat all of M, RU, tOSU, and Iowa
- 59% chance to beat all of M, RU, tOSU, IA, and UMD
- 53% chance to beat all of M, RU, tOSU, IA, UMD, and IU
- 48% chance to beat all of M, RU, tOSU, IA, UMD, IU, and IL
- 43% chance to beat all of M, RU, tOSU, IA, UMD, IU, IL, and RU
That is where we are. Is Wisconsin more likely than not to win each of their next eight games? Yes, they are. Are they more likely than not to win their next eight straight? No, they are not.
@medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) I was told there would be no math!!!!You are a Purdue guy, engineer right? Math shouldn't be a problem!
You are a Purdue guy, engineer right? Math shouldn't be a problem!LOL ... actually went to school at IU for accounting ... but was raised a Purdue fan, rooted for Purdue even while at IU. A rare breed, at least my loyalty can never be questioned. Boiler Up!
Did get to watch this game (or the UNL game) but I've been reading.I think he's just not good at certain things and is mired in a shooting slump to boot.
What has happened to this kid?
I think they generally only keep the final weekend flexibleOk, thanks. I was just surprised to see a game between the worst two teams in the league getting CBS on the penultimate weekend of the season.
Not to mention, there are only 2 other Big Ten games that day, Indiana-Maryland, which is also already on CBS, and Rutgers-Nebraska, which I would still bet gets worse ratings than UM-OSU
I think they generally only keep the final weekend flexibleSpeaking of final weekend scheduling flexibility:
The updated projected final standings/BTT seeds are:Well, our projection system had a rough night. All three games came out opposite of what we expected.
- 17-3/28-3 Purdue
- 16-4/24-7 Wisconsin
- 15-5/24-7 Illinois
- 14-6/22-9 Michigan State
- 13-7/23-8 Nebraska
- 12-8/21-10 Northwestern
- 9-11/18-13 Minnesota (wins tie with UMD based on H2H, no game in College Park)
- 9-11/17-14 Maryland
- 8-12/14-17 Penn State
- 7-13/15-16 Iowa (wins tie with RR based on H2H, no game in Piscataway)
- 7-13/15-16 Rutgers
- 6-14/16-15 Ohio State
- 5-15/13-18 Indiana
- 2-18/7-24 Michigan
If OSU doesn't right the ship soon, they may join Michigan in tier 5.They are terrible but they might not be THAT terrible. The difference is projected result in home games against Tier-3. Those are Maryland, Minnesota, Iowa, and Rutgers.
Yeah, and I viewed 2022 as the year that broke me as a fan. As you point out, being a 4/5 and running into a 1 isn't "bad luck", rather it's the expected outcome. If anything, the biggest issue is that it's a "lack of getting lucky", not bad luck.
In Painter's 18 seasons (14 Tournaments), the Boilermakers have only played three NCAA Tournament games against any team other than the highest possible seed to face in that round. The problem, to the extent that there is one, is that when Purdue DID luck into an easier than expected game they failed to take advantage. They are only 1-2 when getting an easier than expected opponent:
- 2011: As a #3 seed Purdue lucked into #11 rather than #6 in the second round and lost anyway.
- 2018: As a #2 seed Purdue lucked into #10 rather than #7 in the second round and won.
- 2022: As a #3 seed Purdue lucked into #15 rather than #2 (or for that matter #7 or #10) in the S16 and lost anyway.
The first two are no big deal. #10 and #11 typically upset #7 and #6 almost 40% of the time and playing #10 or 11 rather than #6 or 7 isn't THAT big of an advantage. The third one is different. As a #3 seed there is less than a one in 37 chance of facing #15 in the S16. That is a massive stroke of good fortune and you just HAVE to take advantage.
I think Elite 8s to conference titles is probably the best ratio. It's two totally different things, but I think about equal rarity. You have 6 power conferences, but in some of those years you have shared titles, so you figure there are ~8 Power 6 conference champs in a year. So if you field that many conference title teams, I would expect your Elite 8 trips to about be the same, with the overachieving teams balancing out the underachieving team, over 40 years, you would figure just by chance that 10 conference titles and 30 tournament trips would result in close to 10 Elite 8 trips.I'm using a slightly different timeframe (1985-2023) and giving credit to UMD and RU for league titles in prior leagues but from 1985-2023 the current B1G teams won 58 league titles and made the E8 42 times so your ratio is pretty close. League titles are typically more frequent then E8's but not as frequent as S16's:
I'm using a slightly different timeframe (1985-2023) and giving credit to UMD and RU for league titles in prior leagues but from 1985-2023 the current B1G teams won 58 league titles and made the E8 42 times so your ratio is pretty close. League titles are typically more frequent then E8's but not as frequent as S16's:I sincerely worry that this is another example of trying to suss out a "narrative" based on randomness.
(https://i.imgur.com/rp65lr3.png)
The glaring outliers are Purdue and Michigan. Purdue has WAY less E8's than you would expect for a team that is second in league titles and third in S16's. Michigan has WAY more E8's than you would expect for a team that is 7th in league titles:
- Michigan is second in E8's but only 7th in league titles.
- Purdue is second in league titles but only tied for 6th/7th in E8's.
Illinois is a tad unusual in having as many titles as S16's. Minnesota is unusual in having more E8's than titles but it is such a small sample size that it should just be attributed to that. Purdue isn't a small sample size. They have nine league titles (2nd behind only MSU) and 11 S16's (third behind only MSU and M) but the expected E8's just aren't there.
Purdue and Michigan are complete opposites on this. Purdue has an odd lack of success in March for as good as they've been the rest of the year while Michigan has an odd amount of success for being relatively mediocre the rest of the year. If you combined the best from Purdue and Michigan you'd have a very close #2 to MSU's #1:
League titles:NCAA Appearances:
- MSU is #1 with 11
- PU is right there at #2 with 9
S16's:
- MSU is #1 with 32
- PU is right there at #2 with 29
E8's:
- MSU is #1 with 17
- M is #2 with 12 (this is the crossover point, PU is really close to M at #3 with 11)
F4's:
- MSU is #1 with 10
- M is right there at #2 with 8
NC's:
- MSU is #1 with 8
- M is #2 with 5
- MSU, M, IU, and UMD have one each
Instead we have MSU as a clear #1 followed by a jumble of M, PU, IU, UMD, tOSU, UW, and IU as obviously #2 through #8 collectively but we could argue all day about the order.
Well that is simply judging teams ability to win Sweet 16 games. So yes, that makes sense.Fair point. Although I think it's mainly on Keady, not Painter...
We are comparing regular season success to postseason success. You would expect conference title distribution to somewhat replicate Elite 8 distribution. And I went back to Keady's first title, so it's 10 titles. Every other team is +/- 3. Purdue is -7
FTR, I don't even really care to see it this year.
To answer @Brutus Buckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=31) 's standing question, not happening unless:
- Ohio State beats Indiana on Wednesday
- Michigan beats Rutgers on Wednesday
- Ohio State beats Nebraska on Thursday
- Michigan beats Northwestern on Thursday
- Ohio State beats Michigan State on Friday
- Michigan beats Illinois on Friday
- Ohio State beats PU/UMD/PSU on Saturday
- Michigan beats UW/MN/IA on Saturday
That was an example of s&@&ing all over the floor by UW.Yep.
Yep.Basketball is like 90% how well you shoot 3s now. Wisconsin has been awful the past 2 games. That's been about it
They need to get their heads out of their asses.
Now.
I think UW needs a drop.1: Purdue
1: PurdueSeems to be the case. Honestly, and let's be just that - the conference kinda sucks this season.
2: Illinois
3: Everyone else
And I'm not really joking, I wouldn't be totally unconfident in putting those projections up against ours for the rest of the year
1: PurdueI'll be updating projections on Monday so lets talk about this and if it seems appropriate we can make that change then.
2: Illinois
3: Everyone else
And I'm not really joking, I wouldn't be totally unconfident in putting those projections up against ours for the rest of the year
Seems to be the case. Honestly, and let's be just that - the conference kinda sucks this season.I expect the home team to win any game against any other team in the bottom 12. And Illinois is only a half step above
Basketball is like 90% how well you shoot 3s now. Wisconsin has been awful the past 2 games. That's been about itThat ain’t it.
That ain’t it.The defense was fine. Turnovers were a problem, but I have no confidence that had they maintained the possession, it wouldn't have just ended in a missed 3 anyway.
3s could’ve saved them. But carelessness protecting the ball and slovenly defense/decision-making were the killer.
Storr needs to slow it down and have more patience. He's not a great ball-handler.This I think was it, and I think a product of the 3 point shooting. Late in the game, they had chances, and they had some horrible drives into traffic. It was as if the offense stopped trusting the 3s as well, but they didn't know what their Plan B was
I expect the home team to win any game against any other team in the bottom 12. And Illinois is only a half step aboveI agree with this statement.
Jesus, Wisconsin. I made this post in a "hopefully that demoralizing loss affects their next game" kind of way, not a "Holy crap we suck and should lose every remaining game" kind of way.
Hopefully that was incredibly demoralizing. Feel free to take that hangover into the next game Badgers. O:-)
Home teams 2-0 today, both hosting ranked teamsI predict 4-1 for home teams today.
I predict 4-1 for home teams today.Michigan or Indiana pulling the upset?
I predict 4-1 for home teams today.5-0
nice win by HoltmannI was hopeful, thinking they could do it quietly over SuperBowl weekend.
thought he might get fired
Great win for Sparty. My lasting memory will be Coleman Hawkins laying on the ground whining like a baby to the refs, leaving MSU with a 5 on 4 and a wide open three.That's good. All of mine involve him having weirdly good shooting nights and burying some bad UW teams.
Thankfully we were out on the boat all day and didn't get to see any hoops.You’ve had children, which means I assume you’ve dealt with diaper blowouts.
I got married to 3 people and the two boys were potty trained.The second sentence explains the first. 😂😂👏👏
I've yet to change a diaper in my life.
I got married to 3 people and the two boys were potty trained.the grandkids are coming over
I've yet to change a diaper in my life.
Do you think Northwestern and Iowa will make it 7-0 for home teams this weekend?Not if Northwestern keeps playing like this. This is the worst I've seen them at home all year
daughter is makin bank today?
She pours beers a few blocks from Pinnacle Bank arena where it was sold out for the Caitlyn Clark show.Nice!
Opened 2 hours early this morning and going strong post game
She's been known to pull down $1,000 in tips on a football Saturday - when they win
Nice!Also, Ohio State is in East Lansing playing for sole possession of first place!
And I assume the Huskers also kept Clark from breaking the all-time scoring record on SuperBowl Sunday which is good because now she can do it at home and on a day when she can be story #1.
Nice!yes, some Hawk fans are suggesting they lost the game for this reason
And I assume the Huskers also kept Clark from breaking the all-time scoring record on SuperBowl Sunday which is good because now she can do it at home and on a day when she can be story #1.
I got married to 3 people and the two boys were potty trained.I get what it’s saying, but that phrasing threw me for a moment (and still kinda does)
I've yet to change a diaper in my life.
I get what it’s saying, but that phrasing threw me for a moment (and still kinda does)My wife was also potty-trained. Still is. Me too. For now.
My wife was also potty-trained. Still is. Me too. For now.I like the dad joke sidestep, good work.
As far as I know the boys still are.
Crystal clear now, I hope.
Drop them.Done.
two big ten games tonightTomorrow
both on peacock
I'll watch Duke on ESPN
Caitlin Clark will break the scoring record thursday night in Iowa City - on peacockThat is sad.
That is sad.Iowa City has its charm
Iowa City has its charmLoL
nice win by HoltmannFWIW: At this point I think there is very little chance of Holtmann getting fired before the end of the season. Ohio State's next four are all basically win/win for Holtmann because his team is so awful that the Buckeyes will be expected to lose all four:
thought he might get fired
I have pee cock.This is going to turn into the diapers thread
FWIW: At this point I think there is very little chance of Holtmann getting fired before the end of the season. Ohio State's next four are all basically win/win for Holtmann because his team is so awful that the Buckeyes will be expected to lose all four:Monday after Selection Sunday should be quite the time.
- At #20 Wisconsin tonight
- Vs #2 Purdue Sunday 2/18
- At Minnesota 2/22
- At Michigan State 2/25
After those games the Buckeyes host Nebraska and Michigan before finishing the season in Piscataway.
Already did.They need a "get-right" game and there isn't a better Rx for that than hosting Holtmann's team.
The way the Badgers are playing makes me think I should go out and buy some Depends.
Holtmann's coaching at the close was ... suspect.Every game.
You know, I really miss those graphics that were posted on these basketball threads over the years after every OSU game that displayed the opponent and final score.
I wonder why they stopped.....
:hee20hee20hee:
Tonight's games:Issue is MSU has only won 1 true road game all year (at Maryland). Even road/neutral the record is 2-7, with the additional win being "neutral" vs. Baylor in Detroit. Granted, aside from Minnesota, the losses are Arizona, Duke, Wisconsin, Illinois, Nebraska, Northwestern, so all current tournament teams. This week of at Penn State and at Michigan will be very telling as to whether its a road issue, or the fact that they've played a bunch of good teams on the road.
Michigan State -3.5 at Penn State, 630 BTN:
The Spartans just beat Illinois and would love to turn that into a solid winning streak. After tonight they visit the reeling Wolverines then host Iowa and Ohio State. It isn't hard to see that becoming a five game winning streak for MSU which would move them to 19-9/11-6 and put them in great shape heading into a tough final stretch of @PU, vsNU, @IU.
Penn State's tournament goose is probably already cooked but there is a chance they could finish .500 and maybe at least get some postseason experience in the Not Invited Tournament.
Issue is MSU has only won 1 true road game all year (at Maryland). Even road/neutral the record is 2-7, with the additional win being "neutral" vs. Baylor in Detroit. Granted, aside from Minnesota, the losses are Arizona, Duke, Wisconsin, Illinois, Nebraska, Northwestern, so all current tournament teams. This week of at Penn State and at Michigan will be very telling as to whether its a road issue, or the fact that they've played a bunch of good teams on the road.Well that is one more road win than my team!
Some report out there that Holtmann will be fired today. No clue if reliable.Not sure what that does, unless you are hiring a coach who isn't coaching this year.
Not sure what that does, unless you are hiring a coach who isn't coaching this year.I mentioned this is the other thread but Chris Mack is an Ohio guy who is unemployed. Can't beat that buyout.
Jay Wright, come on down! Maybe Coach K
Not sure what that does, unless you are hiring a coach who isn't coaching this year.It gets the agents going for sure.
Jay Wright, come on down! Maybe Coach K
It gets the agents going for sure.Let's the players get a jumpstart on NIL opportunities at other schools
Some report out there that Holtmann will be fired today. No clue if reliable.https://www.elevenwarriors.com/forum/ohio-state-basketball/2024/02/145529/per-this-report-holtmann-will-be-fired-today
https://twitter.com/bunch_nuts/status/1757821129945751836LoL
Ty Berry of Northwestern out for the season. Was leading the team in FT % and 3pt %That's a big hit on them. 12 PPG too.
It gets the agents going for sure.Saw it brought up that they were concerned that if he finished the season with some wins, a few boosters may lose interest in paying the buyout
Saw it brought up that they were concerned that if he finished the season with some wins, a few boosters may lose interest in paying the buyoutThat would’ve been fascinating, although the upcoming schedule isn’t particularly forgiving
That would’ve been fascinating, although the upcoming schedule isn’t particularly forgivingIt isn't but I've been saying for a long time that the Buckeyes had Tier-1 Talent and Tier-5 coaching. In this context, my point is that the talent is there to at least be one of the better teams in the league rather than one of the worst as they have been under Holtmann.
OSU is a really good job. I'd argue elite, because you have the history and resources of a blue blood, without the fan expectations.This, exactly.
Randy Ayers did well early on with Gary's players, and then finished in the bottom 3 in the conference in his last 4 years
So you are saying Nate Oats should be the first call?
He also had one player shoot out another player's tires, while a third player drove the getaway car.
OSU is a really good job. I'd argue elite, because you have the history and resources of a blue blood, without the fan expectations.We've been here a long time, I remember you pointing this out before they hired Holtmann. I answered the first part yesterday but this second part deserves a deeper look.
But somehow, no OSU coach can leave the program on good footing. The last OSU coach to retire as head coach of the school is Fred Taylor, in 1976.
Eldon Miller reached a couple of Sweet 16s, but jumped to Northern Iowa after an NIT Championship in 1986
Gary Williams jumped to his alma mater after 3 years
Randy Ayers did well early on with Gary's players, and then finished in the bottom 3 in the conference in his last 4 years
Jim O'Brien resurrected the program, won a couple of Big Ten titles, and reached a Final 4, but had a losing record in his last 2 seasons, and left the team on probation
Thad Matta got them back again, winning the first of 5 Big Ten titles in his second year. But after winning 5 in 7 years, failed to finish above 5th in his final 4 years, missing the tournament twice, never reaching the 2nd weekend.
Chris Holtman nearly won a Big Ten title his first year, got a 2 seed in 2021, and made (or would have made the tournament in each of his first 5 seasons). Now they are 9-25 in the Big Ten over the past two years, and headed to their 2nd straight Wednesday start in the BTT
He also had one player shoot out another player's tires, while a third player drove the getaway car.Another player got caught stealing stereos out of cars in a student lot and another one got busted for a drive-off (back when gas wasn't all pay-at-pump, he filled up and left) and various other embarrassments.
Back to this season and the other 13 teams in the league:Big question is how much the loss of Berry is going to affect NW. They were able to get by PSU and Nebraska at home without him, but they were already so-so on the road, so I suspect this is a game that Rutgers rolls in.
The projections have held up well this week so no changes so far. Tonight we have:
Northwestern +4.5 at Rutgers, 630 BTN:
Vegas and our tiers both like Rutgers but I'm not so sure. The Wildcats are assembling a really solid season. They should easily make the tournament and we project them to finish 21-10/12-8. Their next two games (@RU, @IU) are winnable road games that could be the difference between a solid season and a great season.
The Scarlet Knights are 13-10/5-7 so they aren't eliminated yet but time is rapidly running out. We project them to finish 17-14/9-11 and that is with a win in this game. They already need to steal an upset or two so this is close to a "must-win" for Rutgers.
Big question is how much the loss of Berry is going to affect NW. They were able to get by PSU and Nebraska at home without him, but they were already so-so on the road, so I suspect this is a game that Rutgers rolls in.I'm glad you pointed that out. In all the excitement around my team to be honest I completely forgot about it.
Big question is how much the loss of Berry is going to affect NW. They were able to get by PSU and Nebraska at home without him, but they were already so-so on the road, so I suspect this is a game that Rutgers rolls in.Well you were right about Rutgers winning.
Curious how the team reacts on Sunday. Will they come out inspired against Purdue and keep it close / win, or will they just not put any effort at all and just go through the motions.I'll be watching. For those unaware, the Jake Diebler* as interim coach era begins Sunday afternoon in Columbus with a visit from the B1G leading and nationally #2 ranked Purdue Boilermakers. This game is at 1pm and will be broadcast on CBS. I'm hoping for the opposite result from what @grillrat (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=11) is hoping for but I completely agree with his assessment, anything could happen and I have no idea what to expect.
Expecting the former, hoping for the latter. Probably depends who the interim coach is and whether the team likes him or not.
#4 --- 13-7/23-8 UNLThe middle of the league is incredibly fluid right now.
Gotta be shittin me
#4???
Everyone is auditioning, maybe put some spring in their step on defense. Can Okpara do anything at all with Edey? Bruce Thornton has a big opportunity matching up with Braden Smith. He's from Georgia and would probably go back down south, but you have to think Indiana makes some calls there.I'd like to point out first that more-or-less everything you've said in this thread has been wrong.
Edit: thinking about whether these guys leave the conference. Roddy Gayle is from New York - I bet Rick Pitino wouldn't mind getting his mitts on him. Taison Chatman is from Minnesota - it looks like Ben Johnson will survive, have to think they get involved. Scotty Middleton is from Miami, though he spent a year in New Jersey. Steve Pikiell would love that guy. Devin Royal is from Pickerington (Columbus suburb), so he might stick around to see who the new coach is. Though is Izzo doesn't retire have to think he looks up there.
I'd like to point out first that more-or-less everything you've said in this thread has been wrong.
I'd like to point out first that more-or-less everything you've said in this thread has been wrong.The main issue is timing. The transfer portal is technically open for them now, but opens for everyone after the conference tourneys, when I expect them to enter. We likely won't have a coach for some time after that, assuming we are trying to hire a guy who is in the NCAA tourney. So the new staff may not even be present when the guys start talking to other teams and fielding offers.
That said, you may be right here. With the Portal nobody has to stay and obviously the staff that recruited them is done so maybe the whole team leaves. Even if they do, they've been so awful here that you can't really get too upset over it. That said, the new staff at tOSU will make an effort to keep them and NIL is probably a bigger factor than staff recruiting anyway.
The main issue is timing. The transfer portal is technically open for them now, but opens for everyone after the conference tourneys, when I expect them to enter. We likely won't have a coach for some time after that, assuming we are trying to hire a guy who is in the NCAA tourney. So the new staff may not even be present when the guys start talking to other teams and fielding offers.I was kinda hoping that OSU had already had some feelers out before they pulled the trigger on Holtman. Maybe it was timed just to get in front of all the other high profile jobs that will be opening in mid-March, but still, having a contract signed, even if it is a "Coach X will be the new OSU coach but will finish out his season at Y", would go a long long way to potentially squashing any immediate transfers.
I was kinda hoping that OSU had already had some feelers out before they pulled the trigger on Holtman. Maybe it was timed just to get in front of all the other high profile jobs that will be opening in mid-March, but still, having a contract signed, even if it is a "Coach X will be the new OSU coach but will finish out his season at Y", would go a long long way to potentially squashing any immediate transfers.Keeping the roster intact would definitely set up the next coach for immediate success, and there are a couple guys who might be immediately available - Chris Mack or Sean Miller. But for guys heading to the tourney, seems there is almost no way they could really do anything to keep guys. Maybe the collectives can run interference, but just from a common sense position - if you are a good player with an offer to play and make money somewhere good, why wait around to see who OSU hires and whether they even want you.
This would be a win-win scenario because OSU can grab a really good coach, and then said coach might have one foot out the door and be less inspiring to his team (which could potentially be facing Purdue in the tourney).
O:-)
*Jake Diebler:Maybe this is his audition. Been an assistant for a long time.
Ohio State interim coach Jake Diebler is the older brother of Jon Diebler who was a star at Ohio State under Thad Matta from 2007-2011. If you are having trouble remembering Jon, picture a 6-6 skinny kid in an Ohio State jersey draining a three because he did a LOT of that.
Jake played college ball at Valpo and coached at Valpo, Ohio State, and Vanderbilt under Homer Drew and Bryce Drew, Thad Matta, and Bryce Drew before returning to Ohio State under Holtmann.
He comes from a BB Coaching family. Father Keith is a HS coach in Ohio as is older brother Jeremiah while younger brother Jon is currently recruiting coordinator at Butler.
Maybe this is his audition. Been an assistant for a long time.To be honest I'm not sure what I even think about this possibility.
Everyone is auditioning, maybe put some spring in their step on defense. Can Okpara do anything at all with Edey? Bruce Thornton has a big opportunity matching up with Braden Smith. He's from Georgia and would probably go back down south, but you have to think Indiana makes some calls there.Thornton is a damn ball player. He will make some other team quite happy.
Edit: thinking about whether these guys leave the conference. Roddy Gayle is from New York - I bet Rick Pitino wouldn't mind getting his mitts on him. Taison Chatman is from Minnesota - it looks like Ben Johnson will survive, have to think they get involved. Scotty Middleton is from Miami, though he spent a year in New Jersey. Steve Pikiell would love that guy. Devin Royal is from Pickerington (Columbus suburb), so he might stick around to see who the new coach is. Though is Izzo doesn't retire have to think he looks up there.
A promotion from within considering all that stuff would be incredibly small time unless they make the sweet 16 or something.Wisconsin and MSU have had a pretty solid last 30 years thanks to in house promotions and low major in state head coaches
A promotion from within considering all that stuff would be incredibly small time unless they make the sweet 16 or something.I'm asking because I really don't even know my own answer and I'm trying to figure it out:
I'm asking because I really don't even know my own answer and I'm trying to figure it out:From where they are now, making the tournament as an at-large team would make it a discussion. One tournament win makes it a strong possibility. Second weekend gets you the job 100%
If this were your team, what would interim coach Diebler have to accomplish for you to think "we should keep him."?
Wisconsin and MSU have had a pretty solid last 30 years thanks to in house promotions and low major in state head coachesOne of those was an agreed-upon succession plan. Wisconsin was a non-agreed-upon succession plan that ultimately worked out.
I'm asking because I really don't even know my own answer and I'm trying to figure it out:Honestly, if he can get OSU out of playing on Wednesday in the B1G tourney, that would do it for me.
If this were your team, what would interim coach Diebler have to accomplish for you to think "we should keep him."?
One of those was an agreed-upon succession plan. Wisconsin was a non-agreed-upon succession plan that ultimately worked out.Alando Tucker tried to join the succession plan
The other two were Wisconsin hiring Bennett and Ryan, both solidly proven head coaches at lower levels.
and only one of those was dealing with a coach being fired, I think. Not to say that I don’t think it can work, but if you just paid a boatload of money to fire the last guy, it feels weird to promote his not very proven assistant.
I'm asking because I really don't even know my own answer and I'm trying to figure it out:Honestly, I'm trying to remember a time when a coach got canned due to poor performance (as opposed to scandal or something), and then they promoted someone and it worked out. I feel like it happened, but I can't remember where or how.
If this were your team, what would interim coach Diebler have to accomplish for you to think "we should keep him."?
Honestly, I'm trying to remember a time when a coach got canned due to poor performance (as opposed to scandal or something), and then they promoted someone and it worked out. I feel like it happened, but I can't remember where or how.Ed Orgeron, if the goal is a super high ceiling
Ed Orgeron, if the goal is a super high ceilingLol that's a good one. Both great and terrible at the same time
Also Frieder was fired at Michigan, and Steve Fisher cheated his ass off to keep that jobWasn't he fired because he was leaving or something? Though Fisher turned out to be a great coach, cheating or not
Alando Tucker tried to join the succession planHis number will never be in the rafters.
His number will never be in the rafters.Ehhh, it probably should be. Even if he's a duplicitous dipshit.
I'm just saying there are a ton of "sure thing, Plan A" hires that don't work. Then sometimes you miss on your first choices, and land on Jim Tressell, or your former coach games you into his top assistant, after the school wanted nothing to do with him.Is that a UW reference?
It's all a crapshoot.
Is that a UW reference?Brad Soderberg, perhaps?
Brad Soderberg, perhaps?I was trying to ascertain if he meant Bo to Gard. Which wasn’t really correct.
That really pissed Richter off...
Wisconsin defense was kind of a mess, and Iowa went Thermo nuclear for a stretch on long twos. It’s kind of a miracle the Badgers got it overtime.All of this. Truth.
That said, the Badgers just lost a pretty winnable game, and that is what we call effing annoying.
Buckeyes with a halftime lead over #2!I should have known someone knew something. Purdue -8 seemed too easy
https://twitter.com/CBKReport/status/1759053870263648294?t=DJdd96MDLxuZ-RTUY4xRdg&s=19https://twitter.com/MSU_WBasketball/status/1759290647368856025?t=3uf_u3LoczwAM6cnP2TH-Q&s=19
Zed Key is playing just greatSeriously.
Jake Diebler is 1-0 as Ohio State's head coach!Jake Diebler COTY
Jake Diebler COTYWhat is the minimum number of games you would need to win it? If OSU wins out, or close to it, and wins the BTT, he has to win it right?
What is the minimum number of games you would need to win it? If OSU wins out, or close to it, and wins the BTT, he has to win it right?Lol are there rules for such things? I don't even know that there are.
There is no good choice this year. So this is the perfect test case. Honestly, Hoiberg and Ben Johnson are the only decent choices right now
Now painter whining too. If you can have a half where you get called for your fifth foul in the final minute, on the road, just shut up and thank the refs for your giftWhatever.. usually you put more thought into your comments, we lost because of turnovers.
What is the minimum number of games you would need to win it? If OSU wins out, or close to it, and wins the BTT, he has to win it right?I believe they give it out before the Big Ten tournament. So the most he could do is Win every regular season game going forward.
There is no good choice this year. So this is the perfect test case. Honestly, Hoiberg and Ben Johnson are the only decent choices right now
Whatever.. usually you put more thought into your comments, we lost because of turnovers.Yes. You lost for many reasons. It was close because of the friendly whistle Purdue always gets.
I believe they give it out before the Big Ten tournament. So the most he could do is Win every regular season game going forward.Probably not enough then. Just curious as to how small a sample size would have to be
Indiana wearing black jerseys in Assembly Hall, might be a new low for alternate uniforms
Yes. You lost for many reasons. It was close because of the friendly whistle Purdue always gets.LOL ... you are delusional ... quite entertaining though.
If the game was called straight, 10 possessions into every game, Purdue's opponent would have five fouls, and Zach Edey would have fouled out
Yes. You lost for many reasons. It was close because of the friendly whistle Purdue always gets.
If the game was called straight, 10 possessions into every game, Purdue's opponent would have five fouls, and Zach Edey would have fouled out
I don't agree with this but Edey does get away with driving his off-hand elbow into his defender's chest/neck/head area quite a bit.I see this as a bit of ying and yang ... Edey gets beat on more than most because of his size and the only chance defenders have, ergo the refs are probably more forgiving in some other areas. I would not want the refs job of trying to officiate the battle that occurs down low with him.
Wisconsin is 17-9 with 5 left to play. Gonna be tough to get to 20 wins here.I think MD, @IND and RUT are W's .... I am rooting for you take ILL out also. MD and RUT are not very good road teams, Indiana is a total mess.
(https://i.imgur.com/K4CdXvj.png)
They would need to win all of their home games. They should win tomorrow night, but the rest are tough games. I'm just going to assume that they lose the road games at this point.
I'm not seeing 20 wins here.
PSU's leading scorer has been kicked off the team.Disappointing development. Seems like he got in his own head about how good he was, then torpedoed himself. Reminds me of Kobe King.
Wisconsin is 17-9 with 5 left to play. Gonna be tough to get to 20 wins here.IMHO, this is overreaction to a rough stretch that is rough *MOSTLY* because it is just a tough group of games.
(https://i.imgur.com/K4CdXvj.png)
They would need to win all of their home games. They should win tomorrow night, but the rest are tough games. I'm just going to assume that they lose the road games at this point.
I'm not seeing 20 wins here.
No upsets for or against UNLThey and Northwestern have no upsets. All other teams have at least one.
Looking at this week's games it is interesting that, at least per the tiers, there is only ONE game involving a superior team visiting an inferior team (UNL at IU on Wednesday). In the rest, the better team is the host:
- Purdue hosting Rutgers on Thursday
- Illinois hosting Penn State on Wednesday
- Wisconsin hosting Maryland on Tuesday
- Michigan State hosting Iowa on Tuesday
- Northwestern hosting Michigan on Thursday
- Minnesota hosting Ohio State on Thursday
Illinois is at PSUThanks, good catch.
Is any game in BJC ever REALLY a road game?I think heard that it is being held at their arena for their volleyball team. Holds like 6k people or something like that.
I think heard that it is being held at their arena for their volleyball team. Holds like 6k people or something like that.Mark Titus said PSU was so empty it almost made it harder, because you had to manufacture your own energy
Edit...Rec Hall
Mark Titus said PSU was so empty it almost made it harder, because you had to manufacture your own energyA couple of Badger players said similar things.
Lol, Hoggard has now missed 5 layipsLol he has the layips
It's like this team can play well for a couple games in a row, then they start feeling themselves, and play like this. Now they'll get a talking to, and I assume they will actually try on SaturdayI think you mean Sunday but Saturday would be better to me!
Huskers should NEVER be a fav on the roadThat was something. I wasn't watching but I had checked scores a few times. I saw that UNL was up 20 at the half and kinda forgot about it. Next time I checked it was a one possession game roughly half-way through the second half.
not even with a 20 point lead at the half
I was skeptical of the Woodson hire from the beginning. I know, I know, hindsight.... blah, blah, blah. He was clearly option 5,6,7, or even 15. They paid Archie Miller's buyout and spent weeks on a coaching search to end up with a career NBA assistant with a .463 winning percentage as a head coach? It was baffling at the time and the program looks dead in the water. IU needs to change their way of thinking if they ever want to be consistently successful again. At this point, I'm starting to believe that Bob Knight was the outlier and everything else is what IU truly is.I only sort of remember that search. Who were the other candidates? Somewhat worried OSU's coaching search will end up the same way.
I only sort of remember that search. Who were the other candidates? Somewhat worried OSU's coaching search will end up the same way.It was very quiet and secretive. There was a lot of noise about Godfather offers for Brad Stevens and Billy Donovan. The only name that was ever confirmed was Woodson when he was hired.
It was very quiet and secretive. There was a lot of noise about Godfather offers for Brad Stevens and Billy Donovan. The only name that was ever confirmed was Woodson when he was hired.I know you aren't going to want to hear this and you didn't ask, but FWIW, I think it is too soon to jettison Woodson.
If they can Woodson, as they should, they need to go after Bruce Pearl or Scott Drew hard. Drew is from Indiana and his family has deep roots here. Pearl has some experience in the state having coached Southern Indiana to the D2 national championship in the late 90's. Dusty May would probably pay them to let him coach IU. He grew up 20 minutes from Bloomington in the same county in which I grew up. The IU admin has shown nothing that indicates that they would do anything sensible though. I'm resigned to Woodson coaching again next season.
If I'm Indiana, I see Dusty May as a former IU guyThat's the issue. He can't risk waiting. Success, particularly at this level, at a school like FAU can be fleeting, and whose to say Woodson doesn't have a solid year next year. So as much as May might love IU, he can't risk waiting. If Woodson gets IU back into the tournament next year, and FAU drops to a "normal" good AAC team, then what od his prospects look like next year.
Part of the deal is who is available to get. Part of the problem last time was they fired Archie Miller without any real thought to who the coach would be, and there weren't many candidates. If I'm Indiana, I see Dusty May as a former IU guy and Josh Schertz doing strong things at Indiana State and making a move. If they sit on their hands and both of those guys get away...The problem is that they are likely losing Xavier Johnson, Trey Galloway, and Anothony Leal to graduation (unless they have a Covid year still, but that will only happen if they are happy) and Ware to the draft. Coupled with the fact that they are only bringing in one recruit (McNeely, a power forward), and they are just really thin, especially in the back court (and that's assuming nobody transfers).
Not that Woodson has been terrible. He had two good seasons and this team is talented but young and cobbled together. They need some guards and could theoretically add a guy or two and have a strong team next year. But Mike Woodson is 65. Do you really sit around hoping he will turn it around?
The problem is that they are likely losing Xavier Johnson, Trey Galloway, and Anothony Leal to graduation (unless they have a Covid year still, but that will only happen if they are happy) and Ware to the draft. Coupled with the fact that they are only bringing in one recruit (McNeely, a power forward), and they are just really thin, especially in the back court (and that's assuming nobody transfers).Interesting.
If Woodson stays, he is going to have to knock it out the park in transfer portal players, otherwise, next year could be worse than this year.
Interesting.LoL, I get it.
I'm staying on the sideline of the debate on him as I don't watch Indiana basketball and unlike Holtmann, a <3 year track record is tough to evaluate without actually watching the program.
Normally I wouldn't advocate firing a coach in year 3--even in the fast-paced world of CBB with one-and-dones you have to give a guy time to establish a program with his own guys...
...but if his results AND his recruiting are both trash, and he's losing a bunch to graduation without bringing in anyone of note? Yeah, not establishing a good promise of future improvement.
I'm going to stay out of it, because if Woodson truly sucks, I'd rather they keep him a lot longer. So I'm NOT a disinterested objective observer like with Holtmann :57:
The problem is that they are likely losing Xavier Johnson, Trey Galloway, and Anothony Leal to graduation (unless they have a Covid year still, but that will only happen if they are happy) and Ware to the draft. Coupled with the fact that they are only bringing in one recruit (McNeely, a power forward), and they are just really thin, especially in the back court (and that's assuming nobody transfers).I know I'm advocating for him to get fired, but I do want to defend him a bit. If (and it's a big if), they can return their guys, a starting lineup of Cupps, Gunn, Mgbako, Reneau, and Ware is pretty danged good. Of the guys leaving, only Galloway has played in more than 40% of minutes. Xavier Johnson has been bad and hurt, and Leal has been mostly a nonfactor. Keep your guys, add a few depth pieces, and they should be a good team that is back in the tourney next season. McNeely isn't some jobber - he's a five star prospect.
If Woodson stays, he is going to have to knock it out the park in transfer portal players, otherwise, next year could be worse than this year.
Ware is still a first rounder in most mock drafts I have seen. He gone.I typically look at The Athletic, which is pretty gutted but still has great coverage of NBA prospects. I hadn't seen them mention him, but I checked and they did list him as 43rd in their mock draft. No first round guarantee but even getting mentioned means it is pretty likely he leaves.
Rutgers is a pain in the ass, but also a generation behind. This just feels like a real high floor, low ceiling way to play. They could certainly reach the 2001 Elite 8I mean, it feels like getting talent there is always going to be pretty difficult. So just being an unusual pain in the ass is probably close to as good as they can be. So if they can make the tournament at a somewhat decent clip, it’s more than enough to exceed expectations.
As I see it, in terms of tournament prospects there are three groups here with Nebraska kinda straddling the line between group-2 and group-3:Let's talk Tournament, who is a lock, who could only make it by winning the B1G Tournament, and for all the others, what do they need to do.
- PU/M/UW/MSU: These teams play schedules that stand out for being TOUGH. That will help on Selection Sunday.
- IU/RU/IA/IL/NU/tOSU/PSU/UMD and maybe UNL: These schedules are "non-descript". They aren't impressively good nor embarrassingly bad. SoS will be more-or-less a non-factor on Selection Sunday.
- Maybe UNL and definitely MN: These schedules are bad and will be a liability come Selection Sunday.
This just makes me laugh.It is all good since Indiana won but yeah, that is some ridiculous star officiating.
https://twitter.com/themoplady/status/1760838975206432893?s=42 (https://twitter.com/themoplady/status/1760838975206432893?s=42)
I typically look at The Athletic, which is pretty gutted but still has great coverage of NBA prospects. I hadn't seen them mention him, but I checked and they did list him as 43rd in their mock draft. No first round guarantee but even getting mentioned means it is pretty likely he leaves.In fairness, the info I was going off of was about a week to two weeks old. Just checked again, and Ware seems to have dropped to more of a late first rounder to mid second in the 10 or so sites I checked. So it's possible he comes back. I'd put it about 75/25 that he leaves as of now, but it will probably depend upon how he finishes the year.
Betting on Purdue has cost me a lot of money recentlyNeed to bet on Edey Points and Rebs along with Smith Rebs
There being more MSU than UM fans in the building makes sense, given geography. Getting outnumbered by Purdue fans, is quite an accomplishment, even as apathetic as Michigan basketball fans areMichigan is a football school. Always will be. I think there are also a lot of people who just quit watching basketball in general. It’s nowhere near as popular as it used to be in terms of tv ratings. Football meanwhile still holding strong and growing in viewership.
Michigan is a football school. Always will be. I think there are also a lot of people who just quit watching basketball in general. It’s nowhere near as popular as it used to be in terms of tv ratings. Football meanwhile still holding strong and growing in viewership.Same as Alabama and Auburn. When the product is good, it makes.money
It's also why you should schedule aggressively. MSU is still top 25 by every metric, even though they keep losing. They are still an average 8 seed per Bracket Matrix. And I guess the standard is to just keep the streak alive, because being great is clearly.no longer a concernTotally agree with that. I get why teams like Minnesota schedule really soft - at some point you need to get some wins. But for veteran teams play the best. Entertaining and good for making the postseason.
Ethan Morton would get 25 mpg at MSU as a reward for being a former 4 star who didn't pan out, but also didn't transferThis is in reference to AJ?
This is in reference to AJ?Sissoko
Ending a road losing streak of what, a year and a half?420 days I heard.
Lifetime contract for DieblerNo . . .
Ohio State's win over MSU could end up as nothing more than a temporary stay of execution but it does keep open a possibility of Ohio State making the tournament without winning the BTT.I’d have to do a bit of study, but OSU would go to the BTT a pretty soft 19-13.
The Buckeyes are now 6-11/16-12 which is not enough but their three remaining games are all reasonably winnable:Winning out would get the Buckeyes to 9-11/19-12 heading to Minneapolis. From there one win might be enough.
- Vs Nebraska, the Cornhuskers are very good at home but not so good on the road.
- Vs Michigan, the Wolverines are terrible but did beat the Holtmann Buckeyes in Ann Arbor.
- At Rutgers, the Scarlet Knights looked terrible against the Terps.
It's also why you should schedule aggressively. MSU is still top 25 by every metric, even though they keep losing. They are still an average 8 seed per Bracket Matrix. And I guess the standard is to just keep the streak alive, because being great is clearly.no longer a concern
Totally agree with that. I get why teams like Minnesota schedule really soft - at some point you need to get some wins. But for veteran teams play the best. Entertaining and good for making the postseason.I agree with both of you and I'll add a comparison to football:
I’d have to do a bit of study, but OSU would go to the BTT a pretty soft 19-13.Fair point. Current:
If they win out, you’re looking at 3 Q1 wins, 3 Q2, one Q3 loss. Need a lot in the conference tournament to help that.
Big TenPredicted results based on performance of those seeds in past NCAA Tournaments:
- #1 Purdue = held
- #4 Illinois = held
- #5 Wisconsin = held
- #7 Nebraska = moved up from #8
- #8 Northwestern = held
- #10 Michigan State = dropped from #7
Honest question for @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) and other close followers of MSU/Izzo:He's clearly frustrated about getting asked the same questions, and seeing the same things from his team. But part of this is on him. He's the one who decided not to get a 5 in the portal. He's the one who continues to reward upperclassmen who don't deserve it. He's the one who has whiffed on his last 2 PG recruits (Loyer and Hoggard).
Last night I watched a YouTube replay of Izzo's postgame presser from tOSU's recent upset of the Spartans. Does he always sound like that? I don't remember seeing this before, but I only rarely watch Izzo's postgame pressers so I don't have much basis of comparison.
Don't get me wrong, I think he is a phenomenal coach and I have the utmost respect for what he has accomplished at MSU. I've said repeatedly on here that what I most want for Ohio State is to hire "Our Izzo" and that is the most sincere compliment I could give to him.
That said, when I listened to his comments and his answers to questions from the media he just sounded old, tired, and not very interested in this anymore. Several times his answers included the phrase "these days" or similar referring to things as they are now and it just seemed like under the surface he was thinking back to his prime and viewing it as a completely different era.
I hope this doesn't come off as overly critical and like I said, I have the utmost respect for the guy but watching that press conference I didn't feel like he was planning on coaching all that much longer so I thought I'd come here to ask your thoughts.
@medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) I have heard some people talk about the Big 12 manipulating their NET rankings with weak preseason schedules. While some of this seems to make sense to me, you go a lot deeper into the numbers and was curious about your thoughts on the topic.That is mostly beyond me.
The adjusted efficiency is a team’s net efficiency, adjusted for strength of opponent and location (home/away/neutral) across all games played. For example, a given efficiency value (net points per 100 possessions) against stronger opposition rates higher than the same efficiency against lesser opponents and having a certain efficiency on the road rates higher than the same efficiency at home.
I think that it certainly overrates uncapped MOV. I'm all for MOV counting, but Wake Forest's coach even said that he used to give his bench a chance to play in blowouts, and now he can't, because there is a difference between winning by 25 and winning by 12. I think it should be capped at like 20, and that if you are up by 20 at any point in the final 5 minutes or so, it goes in as a 20 point win.I like this idea. I think I'd tweak it to a 20 point cap and:
Basically Zach Edey is in any game with a 20 point Purdue lead and less than four minutes to play, Painter must really hate the opposing coach. Not saying that Painter/Purdue has or would do this, just saying that the system should be set up so as not to infinitely credit any quality team for needlessly running up the score.I don't think it's running up the score, I think it's not artificially letting the game get close.
I don't think it's running up the score, I think it's not artificially letting the game get close.
There is an MSU-UM game I always remember. Looked up the PBP to get the details right, it was 2016. Izzo called a timeout with 2:53 left, and an 87-57 lead, to empty the bench. Beilein pressed the walk ons, and Michigan ended the game on a 16-2 run in 2:53. So the final MOV was 16, because the walkons couldn't defend, and went a combined 0-4 with 5 turnovers. Their 2 points were on FTs. This was pre-NET, and I don't think the RPI counted MOV at all, which is also problematic. But today, you absolutely can't do that
Apparently MOV is no longer included. I didn't include the link to what I quoted, so here it is:It sounds like MoV is not a "thing" which kiboshes @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) 's proposed cap on it (with or without my tweaks).
https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2022-12-05/college-basketballs-net-rankings-explained
Now, the adjusted efficiency DOES mean that you benefit from not pulling the starters in a blowout, because the efficiency numbers for the walk-on whiteout are typically dreadful.
So it's possible that they removed MOV but replaced it with a similar incentive to what existed when MOV was included.
@medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) when did CBB games become 48 minutes long? :57:LoL, oops. Fixed it.
Someone pulled a fire alarm. Very frustrating.Might be appropriate for Wisconsin right now.
Might be appropriate for Wisconsin right now.Well, they were actually on a good run when it happened.
The vultures are out on Greg Gard this morning. Wow.They ain’t firing him this year. Maybe if they miss it next year.
Who do they think their gonna get?
Even though he'd be great, Lamont Paris would be an absolute no, since he and Gard are besties.
I think that it certainly overrates uncapped MOV. I'm all for MOV counting, but Wake Forest's coach even said that he used to give his bench a chance to play in blowouts, and now he can't, because there is a difference between winning by 25 and winning by 12. I think it should be capped at like 20, and that if you are up by 20 at any point in the final 5 minutes or so, it goes in as a 20 point win.You’d have to do it game by game in a weird way, since the efficiency is a season-long thing.
Where the NET is better than RPI is with the Quads. They look at Quad 1 wins and Quad 4 losses. So just piling up Quad 3 wins, instead of scheduling Quad 1 and Quad 4 games is less beneficial. The RPI literally took the combined RPI of your opponents, and that was your SOS. So you would have a better SOS going 2-0 #150 and #151, than playing #1 and #320, and going 1-1.
You’d have to do it game by game in a weird way, since the efficiency is a season-long thing.You are right, efficiency is a difficult thing to put a limit on.
I’m a bit skeptical of the gaming-the-system stuff. And kind of doubt the cutoffs make for better numbers. But they might be numbers folks feel a bit more confident in. Maybe.
You are right, efficiency is a difficult thing to put a limit on.But I think they took out raw MOV.
With MoV it isn't terribly difficult. Upthread we kicked around simply capping it at 20 points and then putting in a provision that if you have a sufficient lead sufficiently late in the game you get assigned a 20 point MoV. This would serve two functions:
- To not encourage (or effectively force) good teams to leave their starters in late in order to prop up their MoV, and
- To limit the ability to compensate for a bad schedule with blowout wins.
IMHO, both of those are valuable functions. I don't think a team should be penalized for clearing their bench late in a blowout. I also think that a win over a very good team, even if it is a very close win proves more than a win over a very bad team even if it is a blowout.
With efficiency you'd have to basically just stop counting once the bench got cleared but as you pointed out that would have to be done in a game by game weird way so it would be very difficult to pull off when looking at what, ~320 teams playing 31 games each plus conference tournaments.
You’d have to do it game by game in a weird way, since the efficiency is a season-long thing.I'm going out on the water Saturday. That means they will beat Illinois.
I’m a bit skeptical of the gaming-the-system stuff. And kind of doubt the cutoffs make for better numbers. But they might be numbers folks feel a bit more confident in. Maybe.
Sissokohttps://twitter.com/itsAntWright/status/1762872532644790589?s=20
This is why I hate the "judging the team going to the CFP/tourney" argument. What if OSU wins out, wins a couple in the BTT. So with the team/coaching staff they are bringing to the tournament, they are what? 7-1, with wins against Purdue and at Michigan State? That's a tourney team.7-2 assuming 2-1 in Minneapolis.
It should work both ways.
Teams in the top 4 going into CCGs should rest their starters. Because then they'll all be healthy, and so that game without them doesn't count
Buckeyes looking like Holtmann's teams used to lookIf you look in a mirror.
If you look in a mirror.Just like Holtmann's team used to look. Moving the ball and making plays. Sort of why I'm sanguine about Diebler getting the job. Holtmann deservedly went, but also wasn't bad and had a lot of good things going, so it's not just throwing a lifeline. Though I would still bet on Miller.
1-3 in Holtmann's last four, 3-1 in the first four without him despite playing Purdue, at Michigan State, and a 20-win Nebraska team. Three tournament teams and a bubble team.
https://twitter.com/_Andrew_Lopez/status/1763412619023573501?t=TXBZElfRFo3xQqPZFfd2Yw&s=19I rarely watch whole NBA games, but watching highlights of him is like watching CGI basketball. Like that can't be real.
Updated projected final standings and seeds for the B1G Tournament:Beating Rutgers doesn't change Ohio State's path. They go from getting the #10 seed by finishing first in a three-way tie with RU and UMD for 10/11/12 to finishing last in a three way tie with IA and PSU for 8/9/10. Either way they get the #10 seed and a path of:Ohio State's path at the B1G Tournament at the Target Center in Minneapolis, Minnesota would be:
- 16-4/27-4 Purdue
- 15-5/24-7 Illinois
- 13-7/22-9 Northwestern
- 12-8/22-9 Nebraska
- 11-9/19-12 Wisconsin (wins tie with MSU based on H2H, won in E. Lansing)
- 11-9/19-12 Michigan State
- 10-10/19-12 Minnesota
- 9-11/17-14 Iowa (first in tie with PSU and tOSU based on H2H2H, no game in Columbus)
- 9-11/15-16 Penn State (second in H2H2H with IA and tOSU based on H2H2H of 2-2, split with both)
- 9-11/19-12 Ohio State (last in tie with IA and PSU based on H2H2H, does not host IA)
- 8-12/16-15 Maryland
- 7-13/15-16 Rutgers (I don't know or care who wins the 12/13 tie because it only determines jersey color in the 12/13 game on Wednesday)
- 7-13/15-16 Indiana
- 3-17/8-23 Michigan
Thursday, March 14 (BTN):Friday, March 15 (BTN):
- vs #7 Minnesota at 630 - Q2
Saturday, March 16 (CBS):
- vs #2 Illinois at 630 - Q1
Sunday, St. Patrick's Day, March 17 (CBS):
- vs NU/MSU/RU/M at 1pm - probably Q1
- vs PU/PSU/IA/UNL/UW/RU/IU at 330 - probably Q1
This is why I hate the "judging the team going to the CFP/tourney" argument. What if OSU wins out, wins a couple in the BTT. So with the team/coaching staff they are bringing to the tournament, they are what? 7-1, with wins against Purdue and at Michigan State? That's a tourney team.FWIW:
It should work both ways.
Teams in the top 4 going into CCGs should rest their starters. Because then they'll all be healthy, and so that game without them doesn't count
FWIW:No I mean when we downgrade Cincinnati basketball because they looked worse in one game without Kenyon Martin. Or Florida State football this year. If we are going to say the wins you have with players that won't be there in the postseason don't count, we should say the same for losses
I've never seen it as a situation where we are going to ignore everything that happened prior to the last-10. I view it more as a tiebreaker.
For example, if I were on the committee and two teams had the exact same resume except that:In that situation, I'd pick Team-B because the overall body of work is comparable (identical in this example) and Team-B is playing better right now.
- Team-A won a bunch of games early and went 2-8 in their last 10 while
- Team-B lost a bunch of games early and went 8-2 in their last 10.
Juwan isnt going anywhereBetween zero and more than zero tolerance
https://twitter.com/Johnubacon/status/1763723312222388733?t=yvvPlm8ZQRTj-RgdHYSnjA&s=19
FWIW:I talked to a stat guy who said that last 10 thing is real in terms of how they evaluate.
I've never seen it as a situation where we are going to ignore everything that happened prior to the last-10. I view it more as a tiebreaker.
For example, if I were on the committee and two teams had the exact same resume except that:In that situation, I'd pick Team-B because the overall body of work is comparable (identical in this example) and Team-B is playing better right now.
- Team-A won a bunch of games early and went 2-8 in their last 10 while
- Team-B lost a bunch of games early and went 8-2 in their last 10.
Considering they had a pretty air tight reason to fire him for cause, and retain a highly thought of S&C coach, and didn't, guessing they aren't going to pay him to go away after the season, after also paying the S&C coach to go away.I'm deeply flummoxed by all that.
Warde is in so far over his head
I talked to a stat guy who said that last 10 thing is real in terms of how they evaluate.Oh, agreed. Some past Gonzaga teams spring to mind.
I'm a little more leery because it can be schedule dependent.
Dagnabbit Wisconsin, you had ONE job....Well Purdue can still clinch a league title with a win tonight.
Wisconsin just plain sucks right now. Just forfeit the next two and bail. I've seen enough.I’ve always find this phrasing odd.
Blackwell, Storr and Essegian should transfer. Crowl told to be done. Start over.
Is Howard going to surrive the season?They are so bad. They also don't seem likely to be much better next season. Was listening to MGoBlog on it, Warde Manuel never makes decisions.
Honestly, if he can get OSU out of playing on Wednesday in the B1G tourney, that would do it for me.Right after Ohio State fired Holtmann this was @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) 's answer to my question as to what Diebler would have to accomplish to make you think that Ohio State should keep Diebler as HC.
Right after Ohio State fired Holtmann this was @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) 's answer to my question as to what Diebler would have to accomplish to make you think that Ohio State should keep Diebler as HC.I wouldn't have an issue with it. It helps the biggest issue in basketball, which is roster continuity. The most chatter seems to be around Sean Miller and Dusty May. Both fine coaches, but May's program was very average his first four seasons, and Miller has a long track record of being good but the last five years have been a step below. So there is risk all around.
They are now one game from accomplishing this.
If they win in Piscataway this weekend they'll finish 19-12/9-11. They'll be ahead of Michigan, Maryland, and Rutgers and no worse than tied with Penn State.
Warde Manuel never makes decisions.He also might want to make sure he gets all of his cars back from the players before making any moves
CBS CBB podcast clearly shares my mindset with what "lock" means. But they were discussing whether UConn, Houston and Purdue are all locks for 1 seeds, acknowledging that means if they lose out. And they all said yes.As you know, I share the same mindset on what "lock" means and the lead of those three is so extreme that they are close to being locks for #1 seeds but IMHO, not quite yet. Scenario where one of those three does NOT get a #1 seed:
That's kind of crazy. That would be 0-3 for all of them. But the 3 have such a lead, that even ending on a 3 game losing streak, they'd all probably be a 1 seed.
Interested in thoughts on tonight's Illinois / Purdue matchup .... I am very relaxed about this game, I think Purdue will play well, we have had some good luck @Illinois but I am expecting a shoot out as Illinois doesn't guard and Illinois is a tough match up on D for Purdue. Zach was in foul trouble last game and Illinois was without Shannon. But Goode went 4-6 from 3 against us last game, Shannon will pick up that scoring and TKR probably doesn't go for 23 again, but Zach should pick up that scoring as he only had 10 last matchup. Two keys for Purdue, containing the 1 man fast break (limit turnovers) and how defend the booty ball with "smaller" guards.Huge game, I wish it was on a TV Network instead of Peacock.
One of the few games of the year where Purdue is a dog (+2), as I am typing the line just moved to (+1) Total is 162.5
Out of curiosity....Gotta be Hoiberg if he finishes top 4
Did that win just earn Painter BTCOY?
Who else could / should it be? Maybe Hoiberg?
Out of curiosity....Not Greg Gard.
Did that win just earn Painter BTCOY?
Who else could / should it be? Maybe Hoiberg?
I know that Purdue was essentially the favorite to win, and it often goes to the coach whose team overachieves per preseason expectations, but I just don't really see that this year. Maybe if Nebraska had won @ OSU he would have had a shot, because I think the 2-8 (assuming a @mich win) road record is going to be the big knock against him.
where was Hoiberg picked to finish pre-season??(https://i.imgur.com/XdbcdXH.png)
12th, 13th, or 14th?
Out of curiosity....IMHO, Painter is effectively intelligible because COTY is effectively an award for the coach of the team that most exceeded preseason expectations.
Did that win just earn Painter BTCOY?
Who else could / should it be? Maybe Hoiberg?
(https://i.imgur.com/XdbcdXH.png)Based on this:
From another board. Columbia is where USCe is located. Lamont Paris coaches there. Chris McIntosh is the Wisconsin AD.Greg Gard is in year nine in Madison:
(https://i.imgur.com/rsRAzOB.png)
Greg Gard is in year nine in Madison:Mac wants to win and win big. Take a look at Paul Chryst's tenure. He got whacked mid-season.
- Two B1G Titles.
- Five top-4 B1G finishes and this year could be #6.
- Five NCAA Appearances and they were B1G Champions in the Covid year so it would be six out of eight. This year is likely to be #6.
- Two S16's.
I wouldn't pull the plug.
This is like 2014 in football, and that year Jerry Kill went 8-5 and finished 2nd in the West, after being picked 5th, and won it over Urban.This is a sore spot for a lot of Ohio State fans because it has been about 50 years since an Ohio State football coach won COTY. They point out that Ohio State EASILY has the most league titles and best record over the past half a century then ask how they could do that without ever having the COTY.
That made me convinced that no matter how weak the other options are, the preseason favorite is never going to win it
Mac wants to win and win big. Take a look at Paul Chryst's tenure. He got whacked mid-season.I get it but change can be better . . .
I get it but change can be better . . .We know the drill. Pat Richter turned everything around.
Or worse.
Questions for you:
- How many league titles did Wisconsin win between 1947 (right after WWII) and 2002 (55 years later)?
- How many tournament appearances did Wisconsin have between Korea and the Gulf War?
It is somewhat goofy to give an award based on how low the expectations were for you.Tressel, Urbz or Day never won COY, right?
It is somewhat goofy to give an award based on how low the expectations were for you.
Tressel, Urbz or Day never won COY, right?Right.
I get it but change can be better . . .As I've always said, even when a program is hovering near it's historic peak but has been stagnantly AT that peak too long, fans always want to sack the guy who's performing for the guy who can take the program to "the next level".
Or worse.
Questions for you:
- How many league titles did Wisconsin win between 1947 (right after WWII) and 2002 (55 years later)?
- How many tournament appearances did Wisconsin have between Korea and the Gulf War?
FWIW, if Nebraska loses in Ann Arbor then I think that Johnson can win COTY by winning out because in that case UNL and MN would both finish 11-9 and Minnesota's preseason expectations were lower.As much as I give Diebler credit, I don't think that he will have enough games under his belt to be in consideration.
If Nebraska loses in Ann Arbor and Minnesota does not win out it likely means that they lost to Northwestern on Saturday in which case Collins would win it if NU also wins in East Lansing tonight.
If none of those things pan out we are probably back around to Hoiberg although an argument could be made for Diebler at that point.
I still don't see an argument for Painter based on exceeding expectations but if the field is THAT weak he might just get it by default as the coach of the best team.
As much as I give Diebler credit, I don't think that he will have enough games under his belt to be in consideration.I agree with the caveat that IF the Buckeyes had beaten Minnesota and Diebler ended up 6-0 I think he would be in consideration.
I get the idea that it goes to the over-achieving team, but I think the field is just that weak this year.This part I think we both just accept as a given. I agree to an extent with @MaximumSam (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1572) 's comment above that it is goofy but for purposes of this discussion that is more-or-less irrelevant. As a practical matter it is an award for achieving beyond expectations.
Yes, Hoiberg exceeded preaseason expectations, but in the end, he is improving his team from 9-11 in 2023 to 12-8 in 2024 (assuming a Michigan win) and did so against one of the easier Big Ten schedules (Nebraska only faced Purdue, Illinois, Iowa, and MSU once, so they only had 3 double games against the top half of the league.)By what you've laid out here, Painter improved by two games from 15 to 17 wins (assuming a win at Iowa) and Hoiberg improved by three wins from nine to 12 (assuming a win at Michigan). Hoiberg wins that because 3>2.
By that same token, Painter improved his team from 15-5 to 17-3 (assuming a Wisconsin win) and will likely win the league by 3 games TWO YEARS IN A ROW. Also bear in mind that (again, assuming a win on Sunday) he will have 10 wins against teams in the top 25 of the NET / Kenpom, with 7 of those being neutral or road wins. That is just insane.
Wisconsin's basketball peak was having a national championship stolen from them by the officials in 2015.Reading this it dawned on me, I have about a 15 year window of almost zero memories of the NCAA finals. I think was in front of a TV for 1 1/2 of the past 15 title games. I'm always at an Opening Day game somewhere or on Spring break trip w my kids. I feel like I need to watch some old highlight reels. For this one, Duke v UW I was in Seattle.
The national championship is always anti-climactic. It's at like 9:30 on a Monday nightThis is a hundred percent true, though at least unlike football they use the Saturday for something good.
The national championship is always anti-climactic. It's at like 9:30 on a Monday night
Even dumber than the CFP final time slot. Can't even feign interest in watching itYep, agreed on both.
Yep, agreed on both.Order out. Got any good pizza in your area?
I get that CFB is trying to avoid competing with the NFL, but why would CBB do it? Do the Final Four on Friday night when people might be fine staying up a little later, and then the NC game on Sunday afternoon.
The 6:30 PT time slot runs right in the middle of dinner prep and dinner.
Order out. Got any good pizza in your area?We do. Great place right around the corner.
Thin crust?Yeah. It's your standard non-Chicago non-NY thin crust pizza.
From another board. Columbia is where USCe is located. Lamont Paris coaches there. Chris McIntosh is the Wisconsin AD.What board is that?
(https://i.imgur.com/rsRAzOB.png)
We know the drill. Pat Richter turned everything around.I think this is REALLY dangerous but lets discuss it.
UW had been a top program for 20 years and is now stagnating.Move fast and break things, right?
We'll see what happens in football, but Mac went all-in there as we know.
Rivals.Gotcha.
This is like 2014 in football, and that year Jerry Kill went 8-5 and finished 2nd in the West, after being picked 5th, and won it over Urban.That one was weird because at the point it was handed out, OSU was a bit disappointing, vibes-wise. Minnesota had weirdly good vibes, mostly because they went 8-4 and had like one non-bad loss.
That made me convinced that no matter how weak the other options are, the preseason favorite is never going to win it
IMHO, Michigan State's home win over Northwestern locked up a bid for the Spartans. They are "only" 10-9/18-12 so if they lose out they'll finish .500 in the league (below .500 if you count the BTT loss) and just 18-14 overall. For most teams that record probably wouldn't be enough but Michigan State isn't most teams. KenPom credits them with the 11th toughest SoS in the country and they are #22 in NET and #19 in KenPom.I still think MSU needs 1 more win to feel safe.
Northwestern is a game better in the league (11-8) and two games better overall (20-10) but they've done it on a much easier SoS, #42 per KenPom so they have much lower computer numbers: #53 in NET and #45 in KenPom. Overall I still think they look like a tournament team and not many major conference teams with 20 wins get left out but if Northwestern loses at home on Saturday to Minnesota, I think they could be in trouble.
I still think MSU needs 1 more win to feel safe.I think that the combination of their impressive SoS and their Big wins/little losses has given them computer numbers good enough to secure a spot even at 18-14 but I understand your point because 18-14 would be among the worst records EVER to receive an at-large bid.
It's not just MSU's SOS, it's that they've won convincingly, and lost close, by at large. I think the two losses to Wisconsin are their only double digit losses.
- OT to JMU
- 9 to Duke
- 6 at Arizona
- 7 at Nebraska
- 3 at Illinois
- 3 at Minnesota
- 7 to Iowa
- 3 to OSU
- 6 at Purdue
In 6 of those 9 games they held leads in the second half. So the efficiency metrics like them
Problem is that prior to last night they were 1-8 in games decided by 7 points or less, with the lone win being on the road at Maryland, when they blew a 16 point lead, and hung on. For a team that starts FOUR seniors, that is extremely problematic, and an indictment on leadership.
Any chance that Purdue could sleepwalk on Sunday against the Badgers?No chance, Senior day for Edey, Gillis, Mortan, Jones ... spring break so only 1/2 Paint Crew, but the crowd will be rocking.
Any chance that Purdue could sleepwalk on Sunday against the Badgers?<checks calendar>
No chance, Senior day for Edey, Gillis, Mortan, Jones ... spring break so only 1/2 Paint Crew, but the crowd will be rocking.Sometimes a loss to refocus is good and healthy. I would prescribe one for Purdue in that game.
Sometimes a loss to refocus is good and healthy. I would prescribe one for Purdue in that game.It sure has worked wonders for the Badgers, I'll tell ya.
No chance, Senior day for Edey, Gillis, Mortan, Jones ... spring break so only 1/2 Paint Crew, but the crowd will be rocking.I actually think sometimes this isn't such a bad thing now. Izzo has old man yelling at cloud lamented that the student section isn't what it used to be. It's more for the Instagram clout of having camped out for that seat.
Also, Wisconsin ripped off a couple nice runs to top Rutgers. Puts to rest any Chicken Little-ing about UW's tourney hopes. (It was dumb, but people were on it)The two of them had awesome banter tonight. Hummel is almost always good, but,.like most color guys, plays even better with great setups
Robbie Hummel was accused of buying Boone's Farm by the play-by-play guy, which was hilarious.
Been a lot of places, but Stockton, home of Pacific would not rank high at all.Ugh. Stockton is terrible.
Also, Wisconsin ripped off a couple nice runs to top Rutgers. Puts to rest any Chicken Little-ing about UW's tourney hopes. (It was dumb, but people were on it)I wish Gard didn't call off the dogs at the end.
Robbie Hummel was accused of buying Boone's Farm by the play-by-play guy, which was hilarious.
I wish Gard didn't call off the dogs at the end.That was a weird one. It seemed like he started calling them off, but they were trying to get Taylor one more basket. But that meant that Rutgers kept pressing, and they’re pretty good at that.
Haven't heard that? Ware certainly could go to the NBA. Wasn't sure the rest of them had options like that.
- Ware, Reneau, Galloway, and Mgbako are likely gone next year
Sam Webb saying Juwan will return next yearThis is the weirdest cycle.
Haven't heard that? Ware certainly could go to the NBA. Wasn't sure the rest of them had options like that.
Maryland just smashed OSU by 21 points in the first quarterfinal of the womens tourney. So the winner of MSU-Nebraska gets #8 Maryland, instead of Big Ten champ OSUI didn't watch the game but this was a really remarkable upset. Not only was Ohio State the B1G Champion but they finished seven games ahead of Maryland (16-2 compared to 9-9). In addition, Ohio State beat Maryland not once but twice earlier this season:
Nebraska doing as good a job shutting down the MSU offense as anyone I've seen all year#5 seed Nebraska is currently putting the finishing touches on their upset of #4 Michigan State. Tomorrow the Buckeyes who went `16-2 to win the league and the Spartans who went 12-6 will be watching from home while the 11-7 Cornhuskers play the .500 Terps for the right to go to the CG on Sunday. We'll find out tonight if the Hawkeyes and Hoosiers can avoid the fate of the other two double-bye teams.
We'll find out tonight if the Hawkeyes and Hoosiers can avoid the fate of the other two double-bye teams.Iowa blew out Penn State but Indiana lost so in total, three of the four teams that earned double byes by being the best teams in the league lost today:
So, a day after it breaks that Mike Woodson is getting another year, his one and only recruit, 5* Liam McNeely decommits. Style of play and lack of communication from the coaching staff are reported as the reasons why. Woodson's laziness in recruiting is becoming more publicized. Last Wednesday was the first night of the state tournament for three of the best Indiana HS recruits. Purdue, Notre Dame, Iowa, and others all had presences in those gyms. No one from IU was seen. The future is looking tremendously bleak in Bloomington.
Interesting bit of news.Kind of crazy - looked like their Torvik ranking was the highest they've had since 2008
Southern Illinois canned its coach today. They went 19-13, 11-9 in conference, a dip from 23-1014-6 last year. They actually improved improved in the computer rankings. And all this happened after losing two studs in Marcus Domask (killing it at Illinois) and Lance Jones (a top-4 guy on Purdue's roster).
Hard out here in these coaching streets sometimes.
This almost every game is on Sunday thing, I find it weird and don't like it.Yeah pretty random that all the last games are tomorrow. Though I don't think they anticipated that the women's championship would be far and away a better draw than any men's game.
I didn't watch the game but this was a really remarkable upset. Not only was Ohio State the B1G Champion but they finished seven games ahead of Maryland (16-2 compared to 9-9). In addition, Ohio State beat Maryland not once but twice earlier this season:In WBB, Maryland is really good. They came up barely short all season, but improving along the way. Brenda Frese is from Cedar Rapids. Perhaps she will be the next WBB coach at Iowa. We will see.Upsets happen but this wasn't some buzzer-beater one-possession win. Ohio State won the first quarter 17-12 but Maryland doubled up the Buckeyes in the second quarter (26-13) in the process taking a lead that they would never relinquish and Maryland continued to walk away in the last two quarters with a five point advantage in the third and an eight point advantage in the fourth for a 21 point final advantage. #5 seed Nebraska is currently putting the finishing touches on their upset of #4 Michigan State. Tomorrow the Buckeyes who went `16-2 to win the league and the Spartans who went 12-6 will be watching from home while the 11-7 Cornhuskers play the .500 Terps for the right to go to the CG on Sunday. We'll find out tonight if the Hawkeyes and Hoosiers can avoid the fate of the other two double-bye teams.
- By eight in College Park back in January
- By 13 in Columbus less than two weeks ago.
Hoosier Hysteria....8500 for a regional. Neutral site too. 1hr+ for both participants. KU bound Flory Bidgunda and #4 Kokomo lost to #1 Fishers.That’s a cool building
Every potential scenario for Ohio State:The blowout win in Piscataway moved the Buckeyes up to #50 in KenPom.
The Buckeyes are 8-11/18-12 and play at Rutgers on Sunday (2pm, BTN). The Buckeyes are currently 59 NET and 55 KenPom so getting to an at-large is a reach but, IMHO, it isn't impossible.
Rutgers is and 92 NET and 87 KenPom so beating them isn't going to move the needle much but it will limit losses and add to win volume moving the Buckeyes to 9-11/19-12 heading to Minneapolis.
With a win over Rutgers the Buckeyes will be 9-11/19-12 and their BTT seed will be:
[img width=274.381 height=176]https://i.imgur.com/pTOK5Q3.png[/img]
The tiebreakers there are:
- T3: H2H2H is 3-1 for MN (swept PSU, split with tOSU), 2-2 for tOSU (split with both), and 1-3 for PSU (split with tOSU, swept by MN)
- T4: H2H2H2H is 4-2 for IU (swept tOSU and MN, swept by PSU), 3-3 for both PSU and MN, and 2-4 for tOSU (split with PSU and MN, swept by IU).
- T6: MN and tOSU split their series so it goes to record against the best team where tOSU wins based on their win over Purdue.
- T7: H2H2H is 4-0 for IU (Swept both) and 1-3 for tOSU and MN (Swept by IU, split with each other). tOSU and MN move on to record against the best team where tOSU wins based on their win over Purdue.
Wisconsin lost because of this:I said earlier, that's mostly what basketball has become. Particularly in the transfer era, where nobody runs any offense. If you make 3s, you generally win
5/24 from three.
I have made a lot of money betting against MSU ML over the past month off the fallacy that MOV matters. Bad teams lose, even if they lose close, which MSU frequently does. And somehow the Vegas computers haven't figured that out7th time this year MSU lost a game they led at the under 4 timeout. That has to be some sort of record.
7th time this year MSU lost a game they led at the under 4 timeout. That has to be some sort of record.But at least this team should learn once this starting lineup of...checks notes...4 seniors...figures it out
Wisconsin lost because of this:Also, Purdue is like, really good.
5/24 from three.
Also, Wisconsin ripped off a couple nice runs to top Rutgers. Puts to rest any Chicken Little-ing about UW's tourney hopes. (It was dumb, but people were on it)
Also, Purdue is like, really good.They do have some great players, but IMO Edey is not one of them.
They do have some great players, but IMO Edey is not one of them.(https://media.tenor.com/me1Yk0jRlHoAAAAM/huh-confused.gif)
Watch this Twitter.I mean, nice play by Wahl, but Edey finished with more points and rebounds than Wahl and Crowl did combined. He had more blocks than the entire Wisconsin team.
Wisconsin On BTN on X: "Tyler Wahl takes it right at the reigning NPOY. @tjwahl01 x @BadgerMBB 📺: FOX/@CBBonFOX https://t.co/KSNFFXPAGB" / X (twitter.com) (https://twitter.com/WisconsinOnBTN/status/1766877368734408868?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1766877368734408868|twgr^55a33bbc166f523c110d6675c8345f4fc6292515|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fcollege%2Fwisconsin%2Fboard%2F23%2FContents%2Fthe-nick-of-time-final-thoughts-as-wisconsin-now-shifts-attention-to-postseason--228450772%2F%3Fpage%3D1)
All because he is simply huge, and you can't touch him.Who knew being tall was helpful for basketball
Who knew being tall was helpful for basketballIf he was a foot shorter, he would not be playing basketball.
If he was a foot shorter, he would not be playing basketball.If he was a foot shorter, Michael Jordan would have spent most of his time playing penny slots
Comparing the best player of all time to a 7-4 Elbowsaurus is not a good argument, counselor.We are talking about a foot shorter Michael Jordan, who would have been the annoying guy in rec league yelling at everyone who misses a shot and then goes back home to his parent's house
@ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55)I don't think I've done one in years
Will there be a B1G Tournament game this year?
I don't think I've done one in years:73:
Only because I peruse Outkick did I notice this oddity, but one of their prominent columnists, David Hookstead, who covers a wide range of topics, takes free reign to post article after article on Wisconsin basketball. No other program gets close to this amount of devoted coverage on Outkick, a website that isn't geared toward college basketball.That man is an annoying dink. He's also spent a long time living the old blogger lifestyle writing random stuff that he just feels like and putting it on his employer's sites. He use to sneak UW blog posts onto sites that didn't do sports coverage at all (they would mention sports when they crossed over to politics).
Everything from betting, postgame analysis, criticisms of Gard, social media reactions: https://www.outkick.com/category/wisconsin-badgers
Definitely contributes his share of chicken little-ing:
https://twitter.com/dhookstead/status/1765816104390099237
They do have some great players, but IMO Edey is not one of them.Naw, he's a great college basketball player. He's giant. He knows how to leverage being giant. He's well conditioned enough to go 30-plus minutes per game at that size. He's got enough touch to hit free throws and finish pretty well.
Since OAM isn't in here b/c he doesn't pay much attention to basketball...I have never been more interested in a pro career than Zach Edeys.
COLLEGE BASKETBALL AND THE NBA ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS! One can be great at one even if they're not going to be great at the other, and that's OKAY!
FFS people, it's like you can't even see that apples are apples and oranges are oranges!!!
(https://i.imgur.com/8d68dZX.png)
Well deserved honor for The Mayor.I feel he's more deserving than Painter
Pics of Warde doing dirty deeds?he's gotta have something on someone. or Ann Arbor is so woke and DEI crazy that they are afraid of the optics of firing a black man. dude is an ASS coach and a jack ass to boot. i can take a coach being a jack ass as long as he wins. this guy doesn't win sh*t. he sucks.
I don't know why you wouldn't tag the tag off him now. He's gonna win two more games, I think, and get the team into the dance.When I asked right after Holtmann was fired (I asked before the Purdue game) I remember that you said tOSU should keep Diebler if he avoided playing on Wednesday in the BTT. He did and true to form, you think they should keep him.
he's gotta have something on someone. or Ann Arbor is so woke and DEI crazy that they are afraid of the optics of firing a black man. dude is an ASS coach and a jack ass to boot. i can take a coach being a jack ass as long as he wins. this guy doesn't win sh*t. he sucks.I don't *THINK* that wokeism and DEI make his termination impossible but they definitely give him privileges.
I don't *THINK* that wokeism and DEI make his termination impossible but they definitely give him privileges.well that's the only thing I can think of- cause the guy is a lousy coach that should've been fired five times over already.
Pics of Warde doing dirty deeds?The man lent his star PG his car, and said PG then drunk drove it into a pole, and gave the cops a fake name.
And there's the little matter of the punch he threw in the handshake line in Madison a couple of years ago. He should have been cashiered right then and there, and they could have done so for cause.They've had multiple chances to fire him for cause. Somehow he was put on a zero tolerance policy that trying to fight the S&C coach didn't violate. And instead, the highly thought of S&C coach left
I feel he's more deserving than PainterHonestly, I have no problem with the two sharing it. Hoiberg deserves it for immensely surpassing preseason expectations.
I also know for damned sure that Painter is the better coach
I mean Painter has won it two more times than Izzo, so such is life once you raise the expectationsYeah, I saw where Izzo has won the Big 10x and CoY only 3x ... doesn't seem right, the coach is responsible for getting the good players and building the roster too, right?
All because he is simply huge, and you can't touch him.Disappointing take here, by your take all people with his size would by NPOY ... and the fact of his game not translating well to the NBA, doesn't mean he is not a skilled college player. But I am not going to change your mind, just disappointed you took the easy way out on Edey.
I mean Painter has won it two more times than Izzo, so such is life once you raise the expectationsWell, Painter has a winning record against Izzo, so it makes sense.
I mean Painter has won it two more times than Izzo, so such is life once you raise the expectationsI figure fans can either be butthurt about it, or they can take the @medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) route and wear the high expectations that rule a
I figure fans can either be butthurt about it, or they can take the @medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) route and wear the high expectations that rule aThis is exactly my view.schoolcoach out from winning it as a badge of honor.
If Painter is constantly eclipsed because the expectations are excellence, and he fulfills them, while other coaches overachieve (for lower results), I mean, can I really be mad?
Just win, baby.
I figure fans can either be butthurt about it, or they can take the @medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) route and wear the high expectations that rule aExactly. If you win the award, you have set a low bar for your program generallyschoolcoach out from winning it as a badge of honor.
If Painter is constantly eclipsed because the expectations are excellence, and he fulfills them, while other coaches overachieve (for lower results), I mean, can I really be mad?
Just win, baby.
Well, Painter has a winning record against Izzo, so it makes sense.Yet Purdue is 2-7 against him in March. Which checks out :72:
;)
I guess the question is, does Juwan have any shot at things being significantly better next year?I mean college basketball is so year to year now, and UM has money, so the roster could be way better. But their roster last year was loaded, and went to the NIT. So its not a talent issue. But also in this era, its not like giving a coach an extra year digs a deeper hole. There was an age where letting a coach go a year too long also cost you in recruiting
He's likely losing Olivier Nkamhoua and Tray Jackson (and possibly Terrance Williams II).
They've got a couple of 4 stars coming, but nothing that screams "instant impact".
I'm guessing that Warde has given him one more year to finish top 4 or he's gone. At that point, there's not going to be any blowback from anybody for justification.
WBB is eclipsing MBB.Where can one watch this WBB thing?
Iowa 3-peats in WBB Big Ten Tournament.
Iowa, per ESPN bracketology is overall 2nd seed in tournament, which if stars align would lead to an Iowa-South Carolina championship final. Iowa can hope South Carolina continues "fighting" its way, with player suspension(s), into the final game of the tournament. That said, Kamilla Cardoso, doesn't guard any shooter at 35 feet.
Where can one watch this WBB thing?I believe it’s called the entertainment and sports programming network
WBB is eclipsing MBB.That hit was good as Hell.
Iowa 3-peats in WBB Big Ten Tournament.
Iowa, per ESPN bracketology is overall 2nd seed in tournament, which if stars align would lead to an Iowa-South Carolina championship final. Iowa can hope South Carolina continues "fighting" its way, with player suspension(s), into the final game of the tournament. That said, Kamilla Cardoso, doesn't guard any shooter at 35 feet.
Yet Purdue is 2-7 against him in March. Which checks out :72:Hey now, this is a Painter versus Izzo smacktalk. Get your stats right.
What is Izzo's record against Wisconsin?35-25
35-254-0 against Wisconsin in 1999-2000 season alone!
4-0 against Wisconsin in 1999-2000 season alone!Wisconsin swept him in his first season. Then Izzo won 12 of 13 from 97-01. Since 2002 it's been 23-22 MSU
I still don't think MSU is a lock. They might get in, but if they lose what is essentially a road game at Minnesota, I don't think they doWith a loss, if you count it as a "league game" MSU would be 10-11/18-14.
If they lose the Minnesota game, I think they might be sweating, but unless they get blown out, I think they still make it.This was something I was going to comment on not just for MSU but also for Northwestern and the Iowa/Ohio State winner.
I asked about this a few pages back but didn't get any response so I'll ask again:I’m 98% sure that Northwestern is in, but you do raise an interesting point if they grab a quad three loss.
What are everyone's thoughts on B1G Bubble teams?
IMHO, there are only two and *MAYBE* three. At this point I believe that Iowa and Ohio State are bubble teams. I should define that. Entering the B1G Tournament I divide the teams in three categories:
- Locks: These teams will make the NCAA Tournament no matter what happens in the BTT. They are Purdue, Illinois, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Michigan State, and *MAYBE* Northwestern.
- Bubble teams: These are teams that could make the NCAA without winning the BTT but could also miss the NCAA. They are Iowa, Ohio State, and possibly Northwestern.
- Teams that need to win the BTT: These are teams that cannot make the NCAA without winning the BTT. They are Indiana, Minnesota, Penn State, Maryland, Rutgers, and Michigan.
For the three possible bubble teams, my take:
Northwestern:
Their 12-8 league record and 21-10 overall record *SHOULD* be safely in but their computer ranking is barely ahead of tOSU/Iowa and will likely end up behind the tOSU/Iowa winner if they lose their BTT opener, particularly if it is a bad loss. Northwestern would clearly be in with a win in their BTT opener and I think they'd be fine with a loss to Wisconsin but there is a possibility that they could end up playing Maryland or worse yet Rutgers in their opener and a bad loss to a bad team could possibly keep the Wildcats out. I doubt it, but I think it is enough of a possibility to be noted here.
Iowa/Ohio State:
Ohio State has a better overall record by a game. Iowa has a better league record by a game. Ohio State has slightly better computer numbers. They play each other on Thursday at 6:30 and the winner plays Illinois at 6:30 on Friday. The loser is pretty clearly out. The winner would be safe with a win over Illinois. If the winner loses to Illinois then it could be a very close call where things like the MoV of the two B1G Tournament games and the overall strength of the bubble could be decisive.
I’m 98% sure that Northwestern is in, but you do raise an interesting point if they grab a quad three loss.As a practical matter, Northwestern can't take a Q3 loss in their BTT opener.
I think those other two are basically done. (That might be too unkind to Iowa)What am I missing here vis-a-vis Ohio State?
Medina, I don't think wins / losses are going to be a huge +/- on NET ranking at this point. OSU beating Iowa and Illinois would kick them to mid to upper 40's at best, not the 30's. The season's results are mostly baked in at this point.The conference numbers help preserve teams that are already in, but dont really help teams that are out get in. Aside from beating Purdue, I dont think any W really helps you And OSU wouldnt get a shot at Purdue til the title game. Then obviously beating them gets you an auto bid.
I figure fans can either be butthurt about it, or they can take the @medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) route and wear the high expectations that rule aI'm always interested when guys at more upper tier programs get it. Gard got two, once when the team started like crap and then rallied to win the conference, another when they lost a million older guys and then won the conference. Bo had four, two when he got the program going (pair of surprise Big Ten titles), one where they were just far and away the best team (2015) and apparently 2013 because everyone in the top 4 was hyped and all were about as good as each other. That is insane.schoolcoach out from winning it as a badge of honor.
If Painter is constantly eclipsed because the expectations are excellence, and he fulfills them, while other coaches overachieve (for lower results), I mean, can I really be mad?
Just win, baby.
What am I missing here vis-a-vis Ohio State?Your own NET matters much less than good wins/bad losses.
If I'm simply being over-optimistic as a fan fine but someone please explain to me what I'm overlooking.
Ohio State is currently #55 NET, #49 KenPom and 19-12 overall. I agree that they are DEFINITELY out if they lose to #61 (all rankings from here on on NET because that is the one that the committee explicitly uses) Iowa. However:
- 20-13 with a loss to Illinois on Friday would yield a NET of around mid to high 40's depending on MoVs in the IA and IL games.
- 21-13 with a B1G semi-final loss on Saturday would yield a NET in the high 30's to low 40's depending on Saturday's opponent* and the MoVs in the IA, IL, and semi-final games.
- 22-13 with a B1GCG loss on Sunday would yield a NET in the 30's, opponent* TBD.
*Opponent on Saturday could be any of:No matter which team it is, they will have to have won on Friday. If it is Indiana they will also have to have won on Thursday. If it is PSU/M, they will have to have won on Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. Thus, their NET by the time they play tOSU would almost certainly be higher than it is now.
- B1G #3 Nebraska, #37 NET
- B1G #6 Indiana, #94 NET
- B1G #11 Penn State, #89 NET
- B1G #14 Michigan, #131 NET
*Opponent on Sunday could be any of:No matter which team it is, they will have to have won on both Friday and Saturday. If it is Wisconsin they will also have to have won on Thursday. If it is UMD/RU, they will have to have won on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Thus, their NET by the time they play tOSU will be at least as good as it is now with no big jumps for PU/NU/UW but if it IS UMD/RU they will have a MUCH higher NET by the time tOSU plays them.
- B1G #1 Purdue, #2 NET
- B1G #4 Northwestern, #50 NET
- B1G #5 Wisconsin, #22 NET
- B1G #8 MSU, #24 NET
- B1G #9 Minnesota, #87 NET
- B1G #12 Maryland, #77 NET
- B1G #13 Rutgers, #102 NET
As I see it for both tOSU and Iowa:
- Thursday loser is done.
- Either team is probably done with a close win on Thursday and a blowout loss on Friday to Illinois.
- Either team is really close with a blowout win on Thursday and a close loss on Friday to Illinois.
- Either team is probably in with wins on Thursday (each other) and Friday (Illinois) and a loss on Saturday to Nebraska. I'd be less certain with a Saturday loss to IU, PSU, or M.
- Either team is almost certainly in if they play in the B1GCG on Sunday.
The season's results are mostly baked in at this point.It is a good point about the results being mostly baked in at this point but, to an extent, it depends who you are playing and remember that MoV does matter. Also note that Maryland moved up five spots last night for blowing out #102 (then) Rutgers.
Medina, I don't think wins / losses are going to be a huge +/- on NET ranking at this point. OSU beating Iowa and Illinois would kick them to mid to upper 40's at best, not the 30's.We aren't that far apart:
Ohio State is currently #55 NET, #49 KenPom and 19-12 overall. I agree that they are DEFINITELY out if they lose to #61 (all rankings from here on on NET because that is the one that the committee explicitly uses) Iowa. However:So I predicted a NET of high 30's to low 40's you said upper 40's but with the caveat that it does depend on MoV's and who they play. Note above that Maryland moved up five spots for beating #102 Rutgers. As I see it, even a close loss to Illinois would move Ohio State up at least that much. Wins over both Iowa and Illinois would almost have to move Ohio State up ~10 spots which would be to #45 or "mid 40's", no?
- 20-13 with a loss to Illinois on Friday would yield a NET of around mid to high 40's depending on MoVs in the IA and IL games.
- 21-13 with a B1G semi-final loss on Saturday would yield a NET in the high 30's to low 40's depending on Saturday's opponent* and the MoVs in the IA, IL, and semi-final games.
- 22-13 with a B1GCG loss on Sunday would yield a NET in the 30's, opponent* TBD.
The conference numbers help preserve teams that are already in, but dont really help teams that are out get in. Aside from beating Purdue, I dont think any W really helps you And OSU wouldnt get a shot at Purdue til the title game. Then obviously beating them gets you an auto bid.Margins, who you played, and where you played matter a lot. When MSU lost four of five the losses were:
When MSU got hot, they went from like #22 to #18 in KenPom. Losing 4 of 5 only dropped them back to #23.
Sounds like Holtmann going to DepaulI think I would rather land a decent mid-major gig, or take a year off
Toledo about to lose to 8th seeded Kent State in the first round of the MAC tournament. 4th straight regular season title for the Rockets, zero NCAA bidsHis run there has been insane. He’s objectively a good coach and it just never happens.
Cannot shoot FTs in Minneapolis8-15 today, after 7-17 in the road game at Minnesota
St. Joe's takes down #1 Richmond in the A-10. Ouch.Good news for the bubble
Now Ill say MSU is a lockI actually came here to post that there should be no question of MSU's tournament status now.
I have meetings starting at 2:30 straight through to about 5:30.You should try missing games more often
Will not be able to catch the Wisconsin game.
Go Badgers!
I just got done. Last one cancelled. Holy SHIT!Schedule more meetings
buckeyes looking for an upsetUpset by seed but the Buckeyes were favored by the wise guys and ranked higher in NET.
Bid thief coming from the A10Damnit.
Schedule more meetingsI won't get to see much of today, if any. Dr. appointment and PT following that.
I think OSU has the players to hang with Illinois.I just wish they hadn't held on to Holtmann so long. Unfortunately he dug the team into such a deep hole that the Illinois game is a must win. I think that if the Buckeyes had won just one more regular season game (perhaps one of the two in which they held 18 point second half leads yet lost) they'd probably be safely in at 21-11/10-10 instead of desperately needing a sixth consecutive win at 20-12/9-11.
Medina, I don't think wins / losses are going to be a huge +/- on NET ranking at this point. OSU beating Iowa and Illinois would kick them to mid to upper 40's at best, not the 30's. The season's results are mostly baked in at this point.You were a lot closer than I was. Ohio State's 12 point win over Iowa moved them up a grad total of . . . Two spots in the NET. They are now #53, Iowa similarly dropped two spots.
Galloway out for IU is a major loss. If he was available, I would have put this game at 50/50. Without him, I'm thinking 10% chance, and that is mostly because IU will have more familiarity with the venue / rims.The part that I bolded might seem ridiculous to newbies but we observed here that back in the 11-team era the #6 seed had a miraculous track record. They almost always beat the #11 on Thursday then went on to upset #3 on Friday.
Sounds like Holtmann going to Depaul
DePaul is the perfect job for Holtmann to continue his unquestioned mediocrity. Where 20 win seasons might as well be a Sweet 16 run. DePaul hasn't had a tournament appearance since 2004...TWENTY YEARS ago!How do you rank the Chicago teams? Is Loyola their top basketball program now, with their infamous March Madness Nun?
[img width=499.997 height=476.996]https://i.imgur.com/EadU1YD.png[/img]
How do you rank the Chicago teams? Is Loyola their top basketball program now, with their infamous March Madness Nun?Northwestern
Juwan goneUh huh. But it's not his fault.
Jimmy King and Ray Jackson are coaching at the HS level right now.So was Juwan
Juwan Howard getting the bootWild that we went through the whole song and dance about it not happening before the most logical thing in the world went ahead and happend.
Good game MSU. Never a moment of quit in them and fought to the last second.That was as hard a played Big Ten quarterfinal game as I can ever recall.
Nightmare flashbacks to Hummel when Smith went to the locker room to look at his knee.
Wild that we went through the whole song and dance about it not happening before the most logical thing in the world went ahead and happend.It will be insane if they pay the buyout after having plenty of opportunities to let him go for cause.
Uh huh. But it's not his fault.I think this post illustrates just how hopelessly skewed race relations are in this country.
Juwan Howard Asked Insanely Racist Question By Media Member (outkick.com) (https://www.outkick.com/sports/reporter-alleges-white-media-is-the-reason-michigan-coach-might-be-fired)
Juwan gonehttps://twitter.com/RedditCFB/status/1768719085729353839?s=20
No Chucky Hepburn today. Blackwell starts. Gonna miss Chucky's D on Boo if he can't go.Badgers with a nice win where they keep NW at bay though much of the second half.
It will be insane if they pay the buyout after having plenty of opportunities to let him go for cause.They probably will, right? None of that other stuff is lingering unless there's a new lawsuit coming, or something.
They probably will, right? None of that other stuff is lingering unless there's a new lawsuit coming, or something.My amateur legal opinion is that they'll have to because the timing makes it look like a performance based firing (which it is).
So we finally have only our second upset (by seed) of the B1G Tournament:Is the IU support for some non-Ohio State reason?
- #10 Ohio State over #7 Iowa
- #5 Wisconsin over #4 Northwestern
In both cases the lower seed was both favored and higher ranked by the computers.
I'm hoping for two genuine upsets tonight, sorry @FearlessF (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=10) and the one or two Illinois fans that occasionally post here.
Is the IU support for some non-Ohio State reason?No.
Badgers with a nice win where they keep NW at bay though much of the second half.So, I left for my appointments and the Badgers were down 12.
Game was an ugly pace and level of play for a lot of it. Inconsistent reffing. UW shooting was nice. Defense was quite nice inside (40% on 2s).
Good game for a couple of bench guys helping here and there. Winter with a solid 9 minutes. McGee played 23 minutes well. Also AJ Storr threw up a 30-burger, which was nice.
No.FWIW, I think you'd want Nebraska if the goal is to make the tournament. Nebraska is a Q1 win, IU is a Q2 one (and on the border of Q3).
It is because happenings on the bubble haven't been good for tenous teams like Ohio State so I'm not confident that a win tonight over Illinois gets them in.
They obviously have to beat Illinois to have a shot so of they don't, I don't care who wins the later game. However, if Ohio State beats Illinois, then I'd rather them play Indiana than Nebraska on Saturday.
I think OSU has done enough to get in, TBH.Good win volume is low. I THINK that's gonna be an issue, but I've been wrong plenty before.
I think OSU has done enough to get in, TBH.Meh. Kinda borderline. Winning tonight would be a huge benefit though. Again, from what I understand, when the committee is trying to discern between two teams as to which to include, "who did you beat" is a BIG first tiebreaker.
FWIW, I think you'd want Nebraska if the goal is to make the tournament. Nebraska is a Q1 win, IU is a Q2 one (and on the border of Q3).The fact that IU is on the border of Q3 is irrelevant to Ohio State because Indiana cannot play tOSU without beating Nebraska and if they beat Nebraska they'll be solidly Q2.
Now winning both might not be enough, but if you win both, you'd rather Nebraska be the team you beat. Of course, if the goal is only to win the tournament and assume at-large is lost, IU is better.
Oh well.Gets real interesting now. Bjork in a tough position to not make firing Holtmann a catastrophe. Keep Diebs? Get in a bidding war for Dusty May? Going to be interesting, at least.
Still a hell of a recovery by Diebler after the catastrophe that was Holtmann.
Gets real interesting now. Bjork in a tough position to not make firing Holtmann a catastrophe. Keep Diebs? Get in a bidding war for Dusty May? Going to be interesting, at least.LoL.
I think this post illustrates just how hopelessly skewed race relations are in this country.We have become a society of institutional dependency rather than one of self governance. It leads to blaming falsehoods and dismissing individual failures.
First because race is completely unrelated to the fact that Juwan's team finished dead last in the B1G by four games and missed the Tournament for the second consecutive year. That would get any B1G coach fired.
Second because Juwan's prior anger issues would have gotten any white coach fired. He literally only survived those due to his race and yet some moron suggests the opposite.
LoL.I mean, clearly they turned up the aggression and the improved over a handful of games. So that's good. But the overall program isn't going to be about that. They could get really good, stay average, or go in the toilet. Diebs could go and kill it somewhere else. So could Dusty May. What if Holtmann turns Depaul around? There are no moral victories - we will see if good decisions were and are get made or not.
Ohio State was pathetic with Holtmann and EASILY Tournament quality without him.
No matter how difficult the transition nor how bad the next coach is, the only catastrophe in the firing of Holtmann is that it should have been done a lot sooner.
If they grab an outside hire, will be interested if they retain Diebler or if he takes some smaller job to start that part of his career.That means hell wind up in Madison a decade later
At least it was a fun game.
I didn't watch the OSU game, but reading the play by play has the Buckeyes up 3 with two minutes left, and every call then goes Illinois way? (6 straight free throws by the bad guys) Did OSU choke it away? did refs call it fair?If you want to complain about a call, the most impactful call that hurt us was a bit earlier in the game, the call that led me to make this comment:
Shannon is awfully lucky to be shooting FT's instead of ejected.The impact wasn't so much the FT's as the fact that Shannon already had four and this charge that got called a block would have been his fifth. Without him at the end it might have gone the other way.
I mean, clearly they turned up the aggression and the improved over a handful of games. So that's good. But the overall program isn't going to be about that. They could get really good, stay average, or go in the toilet. Diebs could go and kill it somewhere else. So could Dusty May. What if Holtmann turns Depaul around? There are no moral victories - we will see if good decisions were and are get made or not.LoL.
Holtmann was a failure at Ohio State. Period. Full stop. There is no debating this. What he does or doesn't do at DePaul will never change the fact that Holtmann was a failure at Ohio State. Period. Full stop.Buddy, I hope you are right. However, sports fans do tend to live in the Matrix and not reality. If Holtmann goes and kills it at Depaul and we miss the tourney four times, then it will have been a bad decision. There is no running from that, or wishing it way, or even debating it. Obviously, I hope you are right and he was a huge problem and hiring whoever will lead to Ohio State Glory for a decade.
You have been arguing that point with me for two years and you've been wrong the whole time. Let it go. He sucked at Ohio State.
If they grab an outside hire, will be interested if they retain Diebler or if he takes some smaller job to start that part of his career.OSU got F'd.
At least it was a fun game.
Buddy, I hope you are right. However, sports fans do tend to live in the Matrix and not reality. If Holtmann goes and kills it at Depaul and we miss the tourney four times, then it will have been a bad decision. There is no running from that, or wishing it way, or even debating it. Obviously, I hope you are right and he was a huge problem and hiring whoever will lead to Ohio State Glory for a decade.As mentioned, that's not how decision-making analysis works. What Holtmann does at DePaul is irrelevant to what he would have done over the next four years at OSU. DePaul and OSU are different situations with different opportunities and different constraints. It might be that Holtmann is ideally suited to operating in DePaul's situation and woefully inadequate to operating in OSU's situation.
As mentioned, that's not how decision-making analysis works. What Holtmann does at DePaul is irrelevant to what he would have done over the next four years at OSU. DePaul and OSU are different situations with different opportunities and different constraints. It might be that Holtmann is ideally suited to operating in DePaul's situation and woefully inadequate to operating in OSU's situation.That is absolutely how decision making an analysis work. Sure, how he does at Depaul is not absolute proof of what he would have done at Ohio State. But is it relevant evidence? It 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt is. Like I said, this isn't the Matrix. If he goes and kills it at Depaul and OSU flounders, then it certainly is evidence that what was ailing the program may not have been the basketball coach.
The success or failure of the next coach at OSU is also irrelevant to what Holtmann would have done the next four years at OSU. The next coach very well may fail. That doesn't make firing Holtmann a bad decision.
If you believe Holtmann would have turned it around and that OSU would have returned to the sort of performance that OSU expects, then your consideration that firing him was a bad decision is valid, no matter what the next coach does. Medina had come to the conclusion that with declining performance and a lack of trust that Holtmann was going to turn it around that it was a good decision, and that belief is also valid no matter what the next coach does.
Because the next OSU coach failing doesn't mean that Holtmann would have succeeded at OSU, and Holtmann succeeding at DePaul doesn't mean he would have succeeded at OSU. Both are irrelevant.
However, that is not my key point. My point is that if canning Holtmann makes the program worse, then it was a bad decision. If it makes the program better, it is a good decision. That isn't debatable. Someone's feelings don't matter here. The issue isn't how people feel about the basketball coach, it is whether decisions make the program better or worse. Holtmann was one thousand percent canned because the team wasn't good enough, so if canning him doesn't lead to more success, or directly causes the program to get worse, then it is a bad decision.Here's where I think you need to look at it differently. There are two decisions to be made:
I think it is wise to parse out two different concepts. One is the process of making a decision, which obviously doesn't include information of the future. The other is looking back and seeing if the decision was a good one, which does.
Here's where I think you need to look at it differently. There are two decisions to be made:I mean, sure. It's not like I'm out here cursing Gene Smith for firing him. All I've done is point out the very real risks with such a move. You have a team of freshmen and sophomores who can all leave tomorrow if they like. I'm optimistic they will find someone who keeps the team reasonably together and gets them back to what all the fans want. I'm worried they will be in portal hell for four years and then can whoever they hire and these last two years turn into six. Typical fan stuff.
- Should we fire our coach?
- Who should we hire as our next coach?
Obviously they are related questions--if you don't think there is a good coaching market where you'll find a suitable replacement, maybe you stick with the current guy another year to see if hiring conditions are better next time around or if he improves. But I think in the college coaching carousel there are nearly ALWAYS candidates worth hiring, so I don't think question #2 impacts question #1 all that much. Especially when (as OSU did) they fired him early signaling to potential replacements EARLY in the cycle that the job is available--it's not like when Matta left and the carousel had mostly stopped.
You have to evaluate Holtmann individually. "Is he the right coach to lead OSU?" If the answer is no, you HAVE to fire him. Full stop. THEN you hope that you make a good decision for question #2.
Because even if the program is worse, you can also look at the trajectory Holtmann was on (down), and potentially think the program could have gotten worse WITH Holtmann as your coach. Recruits don't want to play for a coach on a downward trajectory. Fans don't want to fill seats for a team on a downward trajectory. It can become its own death spiral if you hang on.
If Holtmann is the wrong guy, you can him and then let the chips fall as they may from there.
What happened?Illinois decided to play some defense in the 2nd half and Nebraska got into foul trouble. Shannon went off.
I've been busy all day with the kids. I checked scores a while ago, I thought Nebraska was up big.
Honestly @MaximumSam (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1572) the more you type the more ridiculous you sound.Post through it I guess. I was right about almost everything.
Holtmann sucked at Ohio State, ergo he had to be fired.
If Ohio State's next coach also sucks then they screwed up the hiring decision but that has no bearing on the firing decision.
You either have the rights coach or you do not. If you don't then it is time to move on because eventually you'll get it right.
I was right about almost everything.LoL.
LoL.I was talking about Holtmann landing at Depaul while he was still coaching here. You probably missed it talking about how great Randy Ayers was :)
I'm sure you got something right but I don't remember it.
Look at Wisconsin, just showing grit and gusts pulling that out.Despite playing 5 against 8 too.
Juwan gone
I was talking about Holtmann landing at Depaul while he was still coaching here. You probably missed it talking about how great Randy Ayers was :)I think that years of defending Holtmann's indefensible performance has confused you.
I think that years of defending Holtmann's indefensible performance has confused you.LOL. I am right about almost everything. I tell you what will happen before it happens. And all I get is "don't lie about the things that I said." Thank you would suffice.
Ayers had league titles and deep postseason runs at Ohio State which clearly exceeds Holtmann's accomplishments but that is a ridiculously low bar.
Ayers accomplished those things with mostly his predecessor's players just like Holtmann's best season was with his predecessor's players.
I never said Ayers was great. Don't try to distract from all the foolish things you've said by lying about things I said.
As far as Holtmann at DePaul, I could care less. His new job and his performance there are irrelevant to his failure at Ohio State as explained to you earlier. The only reason I care at all is because his salary there offsets the buyout that Ohio State has to pay due to the ridiculous raise/extension that Smith gave him which you seemed to think was a swell idea.
LOL. I am right about almost everything. I tell you what will happen before it happens. And all I get is "don't lie about the things that I said." Thank you would suffice.As far as I can tell you are the only one here who cares where Holtmann goes.
As far as I can tell you are the only one here who cares where Holtmann goes.I was right the whole time. You said that it didn't matter who the players were, who got recruited, or anything except who the head coach is, as if the head coach is Yoda and who can magically make the program good with the power of his mind.
You've been defending Holtmann's performance and arguing about it with me for two years and you've been wrong the whole time.
I'm fairly confident that Northwestern is in and Ohio State is out but according to the NCAA's own NET system:I mean MSU is likely at #24, so I don't think they care much about NET
- #49 Ohio State
- #53 Northwestern
Despite playing 5 against 8 too.Dude, you can hate on the refs but wtf you have against Edey. He is a legitimate good dude.
(https://i.imgur.com/sCn7EIt.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Jxdfqmg.png)
You cannot breathe on Edey without being called for a foul. Meanwhile, the elbowsaurus can whack you in the head on offense and be gifted a foul call.
F him. Edey phone home. Just go lose a foot and flip burgers.
I was right the whole time. You said that it didn't matter who the players were, who got recruited, or anything except who the head coach is, as if the head coach is Yoda and who can magically make the program good with the power of his mind.I never said any of this, please stop lying.
I said we seemed to be on a good track with recruitingMy response to this all along was that appearing to be on a good trajectory isn't good enough when you are in year seven.
and he has had good teams in the pastYour definition of "good" is way too low for a program with a history of winning the league AND making a S16 every 4-5 years. I'll use Gene Smith's words, the standard at Ohio State is:
But if you think we would have been better by hiring Chris Jent two years ago, by all means, have your opinion.I never said this, please stop lying.
I'll admit, I didn't think it was very likely that Diebler would win a bunch of games and get the job.Of course you didn't. That is because you never allowed yourself to see that Holtmann was a failure. You argued with me about this for two years and you were wrong the whole time.
Dude, you can hate on the refs but wtf you have against Edey. He is a legitimate good dude.He may be a great kid. I don't care. I'm glad he's gone and the refs can turn to someone else to pander to.
Of course you didn't. That is because you never allowed yourself to see that Holtmann was a failure. You argued with me about this for two years and you were wrong the whole time.
The least you could do is admit that you were wrong and not misquote me.
He may be a great kid. I don't care. I'm glad he's gone and the refs can turn to someone else to pander to.You know, he still has eligibility left. Maybe the Purdue mega-NIL fund will get him to change his mind about going pro.
I nominate Steven Crowl.
You know, he still has eligibility left. Maybe the Purdue mega-NIL fund will get him to change his mind about going pro.That might be good for him. He's an NBA bust. No game, just big, and gets a lot of favors.
Oh geez. Own your words and stop sniveling.The only words I haven't owned have been misquotes and outright lies by you.
I want two. JMU and then Dook.I either think Wisconsin loses to JMU, or reaches the Sweet 16. That's what I'm battling with. I think if they beat JMU, they beat Duke, but I'm waffling on who to pick between UW and JMU.
Where do you get the nerve to accuse me of sniveling?Because you are going on like my ex-wife. "Admit I am always right and you are always wrong!" "Two years ago you said something condescending!"
So how does the Holtmann contract work now with him taking a new job with Depaul. Is Ohio State completely off the hook, or still pays some offset of his salary?My understanding is that the salary he receives offsets the buyout.
I'm fairly confident that Northwestern is in and Ohio State is out but according to the NCAA's own NET system:
- #49 Ohio State
- #53 Northwestern
As a side-semi-off-topic....Man tell me about it. I finally bit the bullet and got SiriusXM just because I was beyond tired of it. They do let a couple of the guys have a podcast, Mad About Hoops, since they don't let them talk about it on the air.
I am actually somewhat annoyed that OSU didn't get in. Not that I think they deserved to get in, just that the radio coverage sucks.
I live in the Columbus area. 97.1 The Fan is the Columbus area sports radio station. They are obviously, very OSU centric. I accept that......but...
Here we are, the week of March Madness, what many consider to be the biggest American sporting event of the year (or at worst, #2 behind the Super Bowl).
And when I turn on the radio every morning and every evening for my commute to / from work, what is the station covering this week?
OSU spring practice. NFL draft. NFL trades. OSU women's basketball. Spring Break stories.
They have talked about men's college basketball over the last 3 weeks more than average, but 95% concerned Holtman getting fired and whether Diebler should have been hired.
Otherwise.....nothing. March Madness may as well just not exist. Maybe my commute is just always at a time they never discuss it, but's it's been this way for months now. The week of the Super Bowl, they spent about 60 to 75% of their time covering it. I get that they have a demographic that they are appealing to, but it borders on the level of ridiculousness how little they are talking about it.
Pittsburgh sports talk has fully moved on. They only barely cared when Pitt was really good for a decade. Duquesne is in, which was a fun one segment Monday story.Oh I just have it for the music. I listened to one of the sports radio channels for maybe ten seconds and shot it into the sun.
The fact that the Steelers added Russell Wilson and Justin Fields certainly hasn't helped what is already extremely Steelers-centric talk.
I have a rotation of podcasts I listen to for all sports. SiriusXM college sports used to be ok, even though it still gave WAY too much love to football in February, but since ESPN took it over, it's the same stupid ranting. At least previously they talked actual football, even though it was basketball season. Now it's all of the usual side stories
Pittsburgh sports talk has fully moved on. They only barely cared when Pitt was really good for a decade. Duquesne is in, which was a fun one segment Monday story.Ahh, last night my wife was filling out her bracket and was asking where Duquesne was... I said "the hell if I know; never heard of 'em." It's like the late 90s when I was at Purdue and all of a sudden March came around and suddenly Gonzaga showed up, and none of us knew what a Gonzaga was or where it was located lol...
Ahh, last night my wife was filling out her bracket and was asking where Duquesne was... I said "the hell if I know; never heard of 'em." It's like the late 90s when I was at Purdue and all of a sudden March came around and suddenly Gonzaga showed up, and none of us knew what a Gonzaga was or where it was located lol...It's in Iowa, ya big dummy.
It's in Iowa, ya big dummy.Then why is Pittsburgh sports radio covering it? I guess they're big dummies too :57:
The Geography of the NCAA Tournament:Someone has to be the late game on Thursday and Friday, and it's a lot more palatable to start the late game at 8PM local than 10 PM local.
Here are this year's first/second round sites with the two "pod leaders" hosted at each site:
Brooklyn:Charlotte:
- #1 UCONN
- #4 Dook
Pittsburgh:
- #1 UNC
- #2 Tennessee
Indianapolis:
- #3 Kentucky
- #3 Creighton
Memphis:
- #1 Purdue
- #2 Marquette
Omaha:
- #1 Houston
- #3 Baylor
Salt Lake City:
- #2 Iowa State
- #3 Illinois
Spokane:
- #2 Zona
- #4 Kansas
- #4 Auburn
- #4 Bama
Note that there is one site in the Mountain Time Zone (SLC) and one in the Pacific Time Zone (Spokane) but there is only one top-4 seed from those two time zones (Arizona) so three #4 seeds from the Eastern and Central Time Zones have to get shipped out west where they will likely be at a geographic disadvantage if they are lucky enough to make the second round:
- #4 Kansas is likely to face #5 Gonzaga in the second round - in Salt Lake City
- #4 Bama is likely to face #5 St. Mary's in the second round - in Spokane
- #4 Auburn is likely to face #5 SDSU in the second round - in Spokane
This isn't some random thing that just happened to occur this year because there were more teams from the Eastern and Central time zones than usual. Nope, it is ALWAYS this way. The NCAA has to know better and yet EVERY year they intentionally disadvantage a few teams from the Eastern and Central time zones and give an unfair and unearned advantage to a few teams from the Mountain and Pacific time zones.
Specifically, over the last 20 tournaments (2004-2019 and 2020-2024) here is the number of top-4 seeds from each time zone:Combining EST/CST and MST/PST we get:
- 8.65 average Eastern, range of 6-11
- 5.20 average Central, range of 2-9
- 0.60 average Mountain, range of 0-1
- 1.55 average Pacific, range of 0-3
- 13.85 average Eastern and Central, range of 12-16
- 2.15 average Mountain and Pacific, range of 0-4
Based on this, there *SHOULD* be seven first/second round sites each year in the Eastern and Central time zones and one in the Mountain and Pacific time zones.
Can anyone explain to me why the NCAA chooses to do this? It simply can't be accidental. They obviously know what teams have been selected each year and they know that nearly every year a few eastern #4 seeds get shipped west to fill in unneeded western sites. Why do they choose not to fix it?
It's in Iowa, ya big dummy.That's Duquorne
Ohio State in a battle in Columbus in their NOT opener, up 1 but without the ball at the U4.Buckeyes survive 88-83 and will face the Richmond/VaTech winner.
The only ncaa game that this reminds me of was coincidentally coached by Bennett's old man. Some 30 pt effort against some directional Missouri team.I remember having SW Missouri in that game, rushing home from school, and waiting for CBS to switch to it. Its actually kind of funny how long we were tied. to whatever your local CBS was showing.
The only ncaa game that this reminds me of was coincidentally coached by Bennett's old man. Some 30 pt effort against some directional Missouri team.1999.
Someone has to be the late game on Thursday and Friday, and it's a lot more palatable to start the late game at 8PM local than 10 PM local.Thank you for the response.
Some of this is because the number of willing host sites in the Mountain and Pacific time zones is grossly out of proportion with the number of schools in Division 1 in those time zones. When was the last time anyone went to Spokane, Boise, or Albuquerque on their own impetus?
And if you think this was bad, recall that prior to the pod system, A) 1st/2nd round locations were fixed by region, and B) the eighth of the bracket that are attached to each 1 and 2 seed went with them no matter who the 3 and 4 seeds were. This year, the sites would have looked like this:
East: Brooklyn (UConn) and Pittsburgh (Iowa State)
South: Memphis (Houston) and Charlotte (Marquette)
Midwest: Indy (Purdue) and Omaha (Tennessee)
West: Salt Lake (North Carolina) and Spokane (Arizona)
The top two seeds look okay save UNC, but after that it gets really messy really fast. Recall that the last year pre-pod, Georgetown, George Mason, and Maryland were all shipped to Boise for first-round action.
As a side-semi-off-topic....
I live in the Columbus area. 97.1 The Fan is the Columbus area sports radio station. They are obviously, very OSU centric. I accept that......but...
Here we are, the week of March Madness, what many consider to be the biggest American sporting event of the year (or at worst, #2 behind the Super Bowl).
And when I turn on the radio every morning and every evening for my commute to / from work, what is the station covering this week?
OSU spring practice. NFL draft. NFL trades. OSU women's basketball. Spring Break stories.
Tony will be 55 in June.It's a very big "except for", but except for his national title run, Tony Bennett has only won 1 NCAA tournament game since 2016. He beat UNC Wilmington in a 5-12 game in 2017.
Dick was 58 when he walked away from Wisconsin, citing burnout.
I imagine there is more burnout in today's environment.
Montana State scored as many points in the first half tonight as Virginia scored all game last nightI read a similar stat somewhere: Purdue's Carsen Edward's scored as many points against Virginia in that 2019 elite 8 game as the entire Virginia team last night.
MSU looking pretty good against msu.18 point win. Not bad at all.
I say either F4 or E8. The kryptonite to me is South Carolina, who I think they could see in the E8. Also don't overlook Gonzaga in the S16. I don't think Kansas will get past them.Usually I wouldn't know anything about South Carolina basketball but I looked into them a little bit when Lamont Paris seemed like a plausible candidate for the Ohio State job.
Dubuque is up on BYU, 48-40 with 12 to go.Down goes #6 BYU.
MSU looking pretty good against msu.My bracket strategy is to pick MSU to always lose the first game of the weekend (R64, S16, F4), because Izzo is so good in the 2nd game. But I think I need to make an exception for when mid-MSU teams who I don't trust to make the Sweet 16 play another mid P5 school, because Izzo seems to never trip up there, unless it's UCLA. And really it hasn't been overly close...
Down goes #6 BYU.I should have shared this BEFORE the tournament when it might have helped some people but based on my analysis of the Tournament, I think the 11's are likely to do really well this year and the 12's will likely do worse than usual.
Big Ten Ref Kelly Pfeifer had the Creighton gameI thought refs weren't tied to conferences for basketball
blew out a shoe
I thought refs weren't tied to conferences for basketballI think that changed back.
Who Doesn't like Morehead???While all the wives are rooting for Longwood
I'm watching
Jack Gohlke. Such a classic WI name. The Pewaukee native had 10 threes for Oakland.On the year, he's taken 347 3s and 8 2s.
Wow, Kansas kust got an absolute gofthttps://twitter.com/TheAthletic/status/1771037969576611976?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1771037969576611976%7Ctwgr%5E3dfedba237c73601545b4221b6ddcff752b7fbce%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fcollege%2Fohio-state%2Fboard%2F120%2FContents%2Fmore-refball-in-cbb-229093761%2F%3Fpage%3D1
Yeah, OK Matt. You got non-B1G refs now. Let's see how that goes.https://twitter.com/cjm31500/status/1770801765039874258?s=20
(https://i.imgur.com/YCXHeWI.png)
most big guys down low could have fouls called each half court possessionAgreed.
um, that silhouette is NOT SteveThis is.
Never fails, go to an NCAA game and its 75% dudes.Where are you?
Marquette v WKU.If you think about trip planning this kinda makes sense. Compare to a bowl game:
I've been to 8-10 ncaa tournaments. Its such a male dominanted event. More than any other.
nice win by the Cats
Winning today’s 1st rounder gives Northwestern TWO straight seasons of Tournament wins. Automatically one of the more stable basketball programs out there.they have a solid coach
Nebraska is playing A&MThe Trev Alberts invitational.
The Trev Alberts invitational.Oh ok. This explanation provided post script is... helpful.
What is listed next to each numbers is the teams of that seed that haven't played yet.
The #8's are Nebraska and Utah St. They play #9 seeds aTm and TCU respectively.
"This looked like a team that could make a run. But the Badgers came out flat Friday night, and that’s a indictment on its coach. The heat definitely should be on Greg Gard, who has only two NCAA Tournament wins since that run to the Sweet 16 seven years ago."I don't know how you can place the blame on Gard.
- Jim Polzin, BadgerExtra
I think the heat should be on Gard to a degree. I think he’s a good coach, but some semblance of ceiling has seemed to develop. Of course, that was the case with Bo until it wasn’t.Who ya gonna get? Make like OSU and promote Krabby? Then bring in a gut to recruit and develop men only?
Wisconsin doesn’t have a birthright to great basketball. In fact, it doesn’t have much reason to be a good program at all. So you keep grinding, putting in the work, we’ll see what happens. On Wisconsin.
Who ya gonna get? Make like OSU and promote Krabby? Then bring in a gut to recruit and develop men only?A. I mean, I think he will have to deliver some thing with a little more ceiling sooner rather than later. Or the very least cut down on that loss total.
Might work. UW's bigs are soft and have been since Happ left.
F Edey.Even a blind squirrel finds a nut.
Gard's team beat him.
Best case scenario.Nah.
(https://i.imgur.com/Qlb6KlR.jpeg)D
Lots of rumors out there that AJ Storr is gonna transfer from Wisconsin after only one season.
Came in last year from St. John's, looking for stability and to play close to home (Rockford, IL).
I guess we'll see. I'm guessing he's being tampered with, NIL and all that.
UW's NIL budget for hoops is $750K total.There's no way that's true. I mean if Ole Miss is offering $800k, good on them, but I would imagine every serious school is at least near the $2 million range
Sounds like Ole Miss offered $800K.That's a UW problem
UW's NIL budget for hoops is $750K total.
I think people are going to have to get past the idea of "tampering." There's no such thing. It's nothing more than the free market at work.Correct. Hate the system all you want, I wont disagree. But its not tampering. Your roster is being poached, and your school is trying to poach other rosters.
I get it, that the free market has not previously applied so directly to college athletics, but it's a whole new world now.
Best case scenario.If I were in your shoes I'd certainly be optimistic and to be honest, I think you are likely right but IMHO, this conclusion is at least three or four years too early. There is just so much unknown about how a given coach will do in a given situation that I don't think anything is truly a "sure thing".
(https://i.imgur.com/Qlb6KlR.jpeg)D
The Tournament, what to expect:So far our league is matching historical performance per seed almost exactly:
Adding up the six teams from our league that made it, we should achieve roughly this:
- 4.01 teams in the second round (.9868PU+.8553IL+.6513UW+.4803UNL+.5197*2MSU&NU)
- 1.92 teams in the S16 (.8421PU+.5263IL+.3421UW+.1053UNL+.0526*2MSU&NU)
- 1.12 teams in the E8 (.6645PU+.2566IL+.0789UW+.0592UNL+.0329*2MSU&NU)
- 0.63 teams in the F4 (.4013PU+.1118IL+.0592UW+.0395UNL+.0132*2MSU&NU)
- 0.38 teams in the CG (.25PU+.0724IL+.0263UW+.0263UNL)
- 0.19 National Champions (.1579PU+.0263IL+.0066UNL)
I liked May and OSU was heavily linked to him before rolling with Diebler. It should be interesting how both of them do over the next few years.Yeah, reminds me of Archie Miller / Chris Holtmann a few years ago. Both were failures, but Archie at IU got fired more quickly.
Yeah, reminds me of Archie Miller / Chris Holtmann a few years ago. Both were failures, but Archie at IU got fired more quickly.Exactly, too early to say. It is entirely possible that we (tOSU fans) will be wishing we'd gotten Dusty but it is also possible we'll be glad we stuck with Diebler.
Nah.I'm actually not a fan and even less in the NIL landscape, although Michigan's basketball NIL setup is pretty low level anyways so it may not be the coaches issue anyways. My stance is that if you can't win big in bball at UCLA, why would you be able to in Ann Arbor? Not a bad coach, just not elite. I'll take the optimistic higher ceiling that could blow up in my face approach. Personally, I've been in Beilein withdrawal for a long time.
[img width=500 height=332.997]https://i.imgur.com/1cgiASH.png[/img]
I'll take the optimistic higher ceiling that could blow up in my face approach.I'm the same way vis-a-vis BB coaches. In football I want to be "good" and hope for NC's. In BB I'd love to see tOSU win an NC. Their last was before I was born. I've enjoyed their F4 runs, even went to one. As far as being "good", eh. I don't care all that much whether or not they make the Tournament except insofar as making it is a necessary precursor to getting to the second weekend.
I'm the same way vis-a-vis BB coaches. In football I want to be "good" and hope for NC's. In BB I'd love to see tOSU win an NC. Their last was before I was born. I've enjoyed their F4 runs, even went to one. As far as being "good", eh. I don't care all that much whether or not they make the Tournament except insofar as making it is a necessary precursor to getting to the second weekend.See, I'm the opposite. College basketballs format is set that any solid team "can" win a national title. UConn won it last year as a 4 seed. Tell me the next time a non top 12 team has a prayer of winning a college football title. No football team can be "good" and hope for NCs. You have to be of a certain elite breed. College basketball, any good team can win one.
See, I'm the opposite. College basketballs format is set that any solid team "can" win a national title. UConn won it last year as a 4 seed. Tell me the next time a non top 12 team has a prayer of winning a college football title. No football team can be "good" and hope for NCs. You have to be of a certain elite breed. College basketball, any good team can win one.I didn't explain my position very well and we are closer together than it seemed at first. As an Ohio State fan, my definition of "good" in FB is basically NC Contender. For BB, I want S16's. Both things point toward NC's. I figure that if Ohio State consistently fields FB teams that are NC Contenders, they'll win the NC once in a while. Similarly, if Ohio State consistently makes the S16, I figure they'll win an NC eventually.
See, I'm the opposite. College basketballs format is set that any solid team "can" win a national title. UConn won it last year as a 4 seed. Tell me the next time a non top 12 team has a prayer of winning a college football title. No football team can be "good" and hope for NCs. You have to be of a certain elite breed. College basketball, any good team can win one.I would agree with you almost any year, but this year makes me pause just a minute considering every 1,2 seed still in it. It will be interesting to see if mindset shifts this year going to a 12 team playoff in football and seeing it work out.
See, I'm the opposite. College basketballs format is set that any solid team "can" win a national title. UConn won it last year as a 4 seed. Tell me the next time a non top 12 team has a prayer of winning a college football title. No football team can be "good" and hope for NCs. You have to be of a certain elite breed. College basketball, any good team can win one.I'm not sure it's all that different.
I'm not sure it's all that different.The secret is to play Purdue
I think you're talking about "top 12" in football, but there are only 130ish teams. In basketball, there are >300, and the rosters are much smaller, so I'd venture the equivalent is about the top 24 teams as talent is more spread around... 24 would coincidentally point to about the top 6 seeds.
Oh, look at the history... Only one 6 seed, one 7 seed, and one 8 seed have won the thing since the modern tournament began in 1985. In fact, since zero 5 seed teams have won it, that means that the other 35 tournaments in history have been top 4 seeds (top 16 teams).
I think the modern basketball tournament is actually quite similar to what the CFP tournament would be if it were, say, 24 teams. The bottom 14 teams would effectively be "cannon fodder" for the top 10, because although they might win a game or two, they can't keep it going forever against the real contenders.
There's IMHO slightly more variance in basketball than football... But it's not like St. Peters, who made the first 13-or-worse seed appearance in the E8 in history, actually had ANY chance to win it all.
The secret is to play PurdueIt does tend to help...
This is why UNC is maybe the one basketball first school worth the Big Ten going after. MSU is a draw, but that's a UNC pullAnd FYI it's more than double any NBA game.
https://twitter.com/0Gstank1/status/1772963597259268497?s=20
And FYI it's more than double any NBA game.Yeah, and college sports other than college football being a national draw in the regular season is over too... Highlighted by the fact that this wasn't a regular season game, it was an NCAAT (i.e. playoff) game.
Pro sports other than the NFL being a national draw in the regular season is over.
Yeah, and college sports other than college football being a national draw in the regular season is over too... Highlighted by the fact that this wasn't a regular season game, it was an NCAAT (i.e. playoff) game.That has been the case for a while though. Has there been any major shift in regular season college basketball viewing?
That has been the case for a while though. Has there been any major shift in regular season college basketball viewing?Not that I'm aware of.
Not that I'm aware of.FWIW:
However that may impact the question of whether UNC is worth going after for basketball and not football. Would the additional regular-season basketball ratings and revenue offset the dilution of football revenue to add another (non-competitive/non-helmet) school?
FWIW:That's true. And if we want to keep the pretense that we care about academics, they're a fine institution there too. I'm not sure how much "media markets" and "conference footprint" drive anything for TV deals any more, but adding UNC might have value there as well.
UNC isn't altogether terrible in football. They are #35 all time with 280 AP Appearances. That is between one-fifth and one quarter of all polls. Within the soon-to-be B1G, that is twelth:
- 1 Ohio State, 982
- 2 Michigan, 919
- 6 USC, 813
- 8 Nebraska, 730
- 9 Penn State, 694
- 16 UCLA, 553
- 20 Washington, 481
- 22 Michigan State, 419
- 23 Wisconsin, 416
- 24 Oregon, 366
- 25 Iowa, 365
- 35, North Carolina, 280
That's true. And if we want to keep the pretense that we care about academics, they're a fine institution there too. I'm not sure how much "media markets" and "conference footprint" drive anything for TV deals any more, but adding UNC might have value there as well.A big unknown to me is the size and passion of their fanbase as it relates to football. This whole discussion started with @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) commenting on their BB fanbase which we should expect to be large and passionate because they are a blue blood there but I have almost no idea how that translates to football. Some thoughts on that:
So maybe I was too hasty. They might be in that middle ground between helmet and pastry, i.e. the "quality addition but doesn't move the needle" territory.
My brother in law is getting married on Saturday. Illinois is playing in the elite 8 on Saturday. I already told my wife if Illinois won tonight there was no chance I won't be watching the game somehow on Saturday. Was hoping for a later tip than 6 pm.Do you like him?
so weird seeing Bama and Clemson get to Elite 8.Yeah, weird to see Bama and Clemson facing off in a high-level post-season game . . . in basketball.
will this inspire UConn and Duke for CFP spots?
UConns last 25 years are insane. Multiple coaches, multiple conferences, some dominant teams, and some random national champions. If this holds, they will pass Duke, Indiana and Kansas, move into a tie with UNC for the 3rd most national titles ever, with 6. They won their first in 1999, but theyve also missed the tournament 9 times in that span, including 4 consecutive yearsIt is weird because it is hard not to call them a Blue Blood based on their NC's but it is hard to call them a Blue Blood based on the rest of their seasons. I think this sums it up:
liken it to Miami (fl) football.Strange program.
Washington State loses to Iowa State to give the Pac 12 its first loss of the tournament after the conference started 6-0. 4 1st round wins by the four qualifiers, a First Four win by Colorado, and Arizona’s 2nd round win over Dayton earlier today. A much better showing for the Pac 12 than is usually the case.
It is weird because it is hard not to call them a Blue Blood based on their NC's but it is hard to call them a Blue Blood based on the rest of their seasons.blue blood, to me, has always been old money. teams that have been good since basically the beginning, or as long as most alive can remember. uconn aint that. uf, fsu, and miami ain't in football.
Wooden had a great payroll.And now that its allowed, UCLA can't even field a competitive one
Indiana has lost its status as a blue blood. Took a while, but it happened.
UCLA is on the verge. Really, outside of the Wooden years, they haven't done all that much.
Sure. Like Minnesota in football.Nobody alive is old enough to remember that, though.
Should we informally refer to Indiana or UCLA basketball a Blue Blood Emeritus?Their historical success, IMHO isn't nothing and it is more relevant than:
As in no longer Blue Bloods but remembered for past success?
Sure. Like Minnesota in football.There are, IMHO, two differences:
@Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) is 104.I seem to remember him saying about those Minnesota teams that he was "unimpressed".
Their historical success, IMHO isn't nothing and it is more relevant than:There are, IMHO, two differences:agreed. ucla, and indiana to a slightly lesser extent, are more synonymous to notre dame football.
- Indiana's and UCLA's BB success is within the living memory of a lot of people. Minnesota's FB success simply isn't. Their last NC was in 1960 but that is a shaky claim (They were #1 in the final AP Poll but that was before losing the RoseBowl), and it kinda came out of nowhere as they were only co-Champs of the league and hadn't won the league since 1941. The bulk of their success came before the Germans Bombed Pearl Harbor (https://youtu.be/V8lT1o0sDwI?si=qkZE2_IuSjzJ7COo) and that was almost 83 years ago.
- Indiana and UCLA may not have won a lot of recent BB NC's but they haven't been anywhere near as dormant as Minnesota FB. Minnesota's last league title was in 1967 (split with PU and IU, also IU's last). That and 1960 (split with Iowa) are their only since before the aforementioned bombing of Pearl Harbor which happened a few weeks after Minnesota won the 1941 league title which was their second consecutive and fourth in five years*. Indiana and UCLA BB maybe aren't their former selves but they aren't anywhere near as bad Minnesota FB.
*Imagine a major Gophers fan born in the spring of 1937. His Gophers won four league titles and two NC's before he turned five and yet within his memory they have only two league titles and one dubious claimed NC and he recently turned or will soon celebrate his 87th birthday.
Yikes, UCONN iss good!UCONN's run got to 30-0 before Illinois scored.
The Illini tied it up at 23 late in the first half, they now trail 51-23
Me: Let's go basketball gods, give me something good.Purdue and the officials beat Tennessee today. Duke and the officials beat NC State today.
Basketball Gods: Got it, we will keep allowing Edey to commit uncalled fouls, and we will injure Houston's best player so Duke can advance.
Me: I'm converting
The question, will Brad put the mortgage payment on Tennessee/Creighton?I don't bet against Purdue. I did that once in football. Purdue was favored. I bet the other team, thinking that if Purdue wins and covers, I lost money but offset that disappointment with a Purdue win. If Purdue loses, I win money offsetting the disappointment of Purdue losing. If Purdue wins and doesn't cover, I win both.
@betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) :Alive, yes. It was 1980 and I was born in 1978. But as you can imagine, I don't remember it.
I know you are a little younger than me but I'm not sure how much younger. Were you alive last time Purdue went to the Final Four or was that before you were born?
I don't bet against Purdue. I did that once in football. Purdue was favored. I bet the other team, thinking that if Purdue wins and covers, I lost money but offset that disappointment with a Purdue win. If Purdue loses, I win money offsetting the disappointment of Purdue losing. If Purdue wins and doesn't cover, I win both.It was mostly a joke about how sure you’ve been the past year-plus about the inevitability of Purdue failure, bu point taken.
Purdue lost and I felt ashamed--winning the bet on the back of my own team's misfortune just made me feel dirty.
So no, I'm not betting this one.
The last time Purdue went to the Final Four they were a #6 seed in the 48-team 1980 NCAA Tournament.How many guys would opt out of that now?
That was also Iowa's last F4. Both BigTen teams lost their semi-finals and the Boilermakers beat the Hawkeyes in the third place game which was still a thing back then.
@betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) . . .
What is DJ Burns Jr's real weight?Great feet and soft hands though…..
He's listed on the ESPN roster for NC State as 6'9" and 275#, and I don't think he's remotely close to 275...
Boiler Up!!! I know badge will be rooting for Edey and Purdue to roll today!!!I did. B1G!!
What is DJ Burns Jr's real weight?333 at least
He's listed on the ESPN roster for NC State as 6'9" and 275#, and I don't think he's remotely close to 275...
What is DJ Burns Jr's real weight?Thank you. That’s been bugging me for 2 weeks when I watched him in the ACC Tournament. You can’t be that tall, have that much belly, and only weigh 275. He can’t be an ounce under 315.
He's listed on the ESPN roster for NC State as 6'9" and 275#, and I don't think he's remotely close to 275...
Thank you. That’s been bugging me for 2 weeks when I watched him in the ACC Tournament. You can’t be that tall, have that much belly, and only weigh 275. He can’t be an ounce under 315.Yeah, I looked at the dude, and thought "I'm going to look him up" and it makes no sense. At my biggest I've been in the 275-280 range, I'm 6'5", and I wouldn't fill out a basketball uniform that way, despite the fact that I OBVIOUSLY have way less muscle mass than him. So add 4 inches, a hell of a lot of muscle, and a bit of a belly on top of it? Easily over 3 bills. I'd probably take the over on 315 too.
Which would you perfer for your team:S16 and it isn't close.
NIT Championship or Sweet Sixteen, and a loss there.
Which would you perfer for your team:S16. Nobody cares about the NIT.
NIT Championship or Sweet Sixteen, and a loss there.
S16. Nobody cares about the NIT.This, 100%.
That may sound a little weird coming from me given my issues with the Purdue team over the last decade or so... Because Purdue was at the level where going to the S16 was "expected" and failure to ever progress beyond to the F4 it was underachievement. I.e. Purdue had some years when they didn't get there when they "should have", but didn't have years where they substantially exceeded it until this year.
But getting to the S16 is a good outcome for basically any program. For many, that's about the ceiling of what they can reasonably expect--there are a lot of programs, even in the B1G, for whom a S16 run is a great year. And there are programs beyond them (I'd argue both Purdue and MSU are here, IU should be, and we can probably throw UW/Illinois/UM/OSU in) for which a S16 is a good year, and some years you're going to go farther and some years getting knocked out before that is a disappointment.
Even 1 seeds only make it past the S16 two-thirds of the time. So it's never truly a bad outcome.
If you're in the NIT, that's already a bad outcome because you didn't make it to the real tournament. If you're in it, you might as well win it, but it's not like it's something anyone but your own program cares about.
The Tournament, what to expect:So how has the league as a whole done?
Adding up the six teams from our league that made it, we should achieve roughly this:
- 4.01 teams in the second round (.9868PU+.8553IL+.6513UW+.4803UNL+.5197*2MSU&NU)
- 1.92 teams in the S16 (.8421PU+.5263IL+.3421UW+.1053UNL+.0526*2MSU&NU)
- 1.12 teams in the E8 (.6645PU+.2566IL+.0789UW+.0592UNL+.0329*2MSU&NU)
- 0.63 teams in the F4 (.4013PU+.1118IL+.0592UW+.0395UNL+.0132*2MSU&NU)
- 0.38 teams in the CG (.25PU+.0724IL+.0263UW+.0263UNL)
- 0.19 National Champions (.1579PU+.0263IL+.0066UNL)
If Nebraska made it to the round of 32, it would be the best season in school history. They're the only P5 team that's never won an NCAA tournament game.
That is astonishing.
and embarrassingI'll add that it is weird because while they certainly aren't a Basketball powerhouse, they've had eight appearances and I believe that in most of those they were the higher seed or at least in games that *SHOULD* have been winnable.
But getting to the S16 is a good outcome for basically any program. For many, that's about the ceiling of what they can reasonably expect--there are a lot of programs, even in the B1G, for whom a S16 run is a great year. And there are programs beyond them (I'd argue both Purdue and MSU are here, IU should be, and we can probably throw UW/Illinois/UM/OSU in) for which a S16 is a good year, and some years you're going to go farther and some years getting knocked out before that is a disappointment.
I was surprised to hear during the broadcast yesterday that Tennessee has never been to the Final Four. And then the next factoid, that they're the team with the most tournament appearances (25) without going to the Final Four, made sense.that's not right. bama had 24 prior to this year and we were never listed as such. looked it up and byu (31), xavier (29), and Mizzou (28) all have more.
that's not right. bama had 24 prior to this year and we were never listed as such. looked it up and byu (31), xavier (29), and Mizzou (28) all have more.Thanks. You're correct.
Which would you perfer for your team:Definitely Sweet 16. Horns won the NIT just a few years back in 2019, and simply getting to the S16 last year was way better.
NIT Championship or Sweet Sixteen, and a loss there.
Thanks. You're correct.Ok, but when you quoted that from the broadcast I thought the same thing. Did we both hear them wrong?
BTW Tennessee had 25 prior to this year, and this year is 26, so they would always have been one ahead of Bama.
Ok, but when you quoted that from the broadcast I thought the same thing. Did we both hear them wrong?Maybe. I was trying to think that maybe I missed some qualifiers (i.e. major conference teams or SEC teams) but Mizzou violates both, so it couldn't have been that. And I can't think of any other qualifiers that I'd have missed that would go.
Maybe. I was trying to think that maybe I missed some qualifiers (i.e. major conference teams or SEC teams) but Mizzou violates both, so it couldn't have been that. And I can't think of any other qualifiers that I'd have missed that would go.What makes it weird to me is that apparenyly somehow we both made the same mistake. I thought I heard exactly what you said initially. If I would have heard it differently, I would have commented when I saw your post. I didn't correct it because I thought I heard the same thing, most appearances without a F4.
It's possible that they said fourth-most number of appearances w/o a F4 and I simply missed the word "fourth" in there.
I'm not really sure how I got my wires crossed, or if they were just wrong.
Which would you perfer for your team:My team made the NIT Final Four last year, and from the first game, I would've preferred they lose by 30 in Dayton.
NIT Championship or Sweet Sixteen, and a loss there.
(https://i.imgur.com/h0od3Vl.png)I know it's will be be considered weird here, but I have followed Iowa WBB since the 1970s (my little sister played for the Hawkeyes - she says, no one came to our games -- she was referring to me)
I know it's will be be considered weird here, but I have followed Iowa WBB since the 1970s (my little sister played for the Hawkeyes - she says, no one came to our games -- she was referring to me)She's ridiculous. The long range bombs get the most attention, but her passing is really next level, makes her impossible to guard.
Caitlin Clark's following is amazing. She is willing this team to win. This tribute is really cool:
B-Ball Wizard (The Caitlin Clark Song) (youtube.com) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JHEGiLYjd0&list=RD2JHEGiLYjd0&start_radio=1)
Clark was on a heater for the ages Monday night.
As my username may suggest, I've traditionally been no fan of Iowa, but watching her do her thing was a lot of fun. It also helped that the LSU team they disposed of was among the most unlikable teams ever assembled at any level of any sport.
IMHO the storylines and game play of this year's women's tourney are better than the men's.
Clark was on a heater for the ages Monday night.It's the same with WBB. Lauren Betts, transferred from Stanford to UCLA in 2023. Iowa tried to snag her to replace Monika Czinano, but was unsuccessful.
As my username may suggest, I've traditionally been no fan of Iowa, but watching her do her thing was a lot of fun. It also helped that the LSU team they disposed of was among the most unlikable teams ever assembled at any level of any sport.
IMHO the storylines and game play of this year's women's tourney are better than the men's.
Many of us are worried about what the portal and NIL will do to football. It has made the men's basketball game borderline unwatchable.
drank a lot of PBR back in the dayWas that PBR drinking done in Nebraska, or Iowa?
Was that PBR drinking done in Nebraska, or Iowa?Yes
Sounds like Indy when the Gophers were in the 1997 Final Four.*
In Phoenix for three of my college buddies whose band is performing as one of the featured acts at Biker Week at West World in Scottsdale. Busy weekend for PHX with obviously the Final Four occurring on the other side of the Valley.Saving up for football trips.
Haven’t seen a single Bama fan. There’s a steady dose of North Carolina State and UCONN fans. But by far Purdue has the biggest fan showing. Old Town Scottsdale. Tempe. The airport yesterday. Boilermakers colors and logos everywhere in large numbers.
Is Purdue the winningest Big Ten team? They never seem to win everything, but win a lot.They have the most B1G titles.
Thank you @medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) I am in Phoenix and taking it all in. On to Monday night. The game we have wanted to see all year.Have a great time! Buy some keepsakes, my F4 shirt:
Man, UConn is a steamroller. I don't know that Purdue can stop them.I don't know. Their defense is amazing. Their offense, when they run their stuff, is too. But when they panic, they just start slopping it up, and trying to get ugly baskets or fouls at the rim. Edey is an overrated defender, because of the blocks, but they way UConn's offense plays, all you need is a rim protector. I don't think UConn will punish him for only playing drop coverage on the pick and rolls. They will still try and play bully ball in the paint, and a 7'4" 2x Wooden Award winner can kind of neutralize that
Back from Indy. Ended up watching the game last night on the plane via free WiFi (which was nice). A lot of sloppy ball from both teams to start the 2nd half, but then I think Purdue just wore them out (esp. inside) and separated.
I say this to a few individuals on here who talk football all offseason and then pick the fall to take lengthy cruises where catching the games is iffy. Why?Lol. There was a degree to which I wanted to stay another night to watch it locally with my Purdue buddies, but I also wanted to get home.
If Purdue is in the Final Four for the first time in 44 years why (WHY!) in the world are you on a plane during the game?!?!?
Skip the flight! Reschedule for later! Special circumstances do call for it! Might as well be a once-in-a-lifetime event you’re blowing off!
Is the point for some on here to more so post about sports rather than watch or attend sporting events?
I say this to a few individuals on here who talk football all offseason and then pick the fall to take lengthy cruises where catching the games is iffy. Why?Lol. I’m with you, man.
If Purdue is in the Final Four for the first time in 44 years why (WHY!) in the world are you on a plane during the game?!?!?
Skip the flight! Reschedule for later! Special circumstances do call for it! Might as well be a once-in-a-lifetime event you’re blowing off!
Is the point for some on here to more so post about sports rather than watch or attend sporting events?
I don't know. Their defense is amazing. Their offense, when they run their stuff, is too. But when they panic, they just start slopping it up, and trying to get ugly baskets or fouls at the rim. Edey is an overrated defender, because of the blocks, but they way UConn's offense plays, all you need is a rim protector. I don't think UConn will punish him for only playing drop coverage on the pick and rolls. They will still try and play bully ball in the paint, and a 7'4" 2x Wooden Award winner can kind of neutralize thatJust saw that the game starts at 9:20 Eastern. Enjoy. I won't.
Lol. There was a degree to which I wanted to stay another night to watch it locally with my Purdue buddies, but I also wanted to get home.
Watching it in Indy would mean figuring out a new flight (possibly crazy cost) another hotel night (Indy was super expensive that weekend due to a Morgan Wallen concert plus the NIT), probably an insanely early flight to get home in time to spring the dog from boarding, a hell of a bar tab from a day of drinking, and having to fly Sunday hung over.
I'm too old for that. It's not like the F4 was at Lucas Oil and I could have gotten a ticket.
Besides, the big one is tomorrow.
This is a special case where all bets should be off! If you understandably can't be onsite in Glendale AZ, you were already in Indianapolis! Figure out another flight later. Along with the hotel. Worry about it all later including the added costs and drinking later. The dog boarders will understand.Yeah, but what if I did all that... And then they lost?
Is sports trivial? Ultimately yes, sports is a trivial interest. Or more precisely, sports is comparatively trivial to faith, family, health, finances, and livelihoods. But does this triviality of sports mean that sports is meaningless? Certainly not! The individual can invest meaning into the trivial.
I've invested a lot of personal meaning into certain teams and should they advance to a championship round it rewards the meaning invested into those teams. No matter how trivial sports might ultimately be.
For you to blow that off is downright insulting to the years you've invested in your team!
Lol. There was a degree to which I wanted to stay another night to watch it locally with my Purdue buddies, but I also wanted to get home.I'm reminded of when I lived in Indiana and UW made the title game. Met with a college buddy at a good pizza spot because get in for UW-UK was like $300-plus (his family had tickets, but not enough).
Watching it in Indy would mean figuring out a new flight (possibly crazy cost) another hotel night (Indy was super expensive that weekend due to a Morgan Wallen concert plus the NIT), probably an insanely early flight to get home in time to spring the dog from boarding, a hell of a bar tab from a day of drinking, and having to fly Sunday hung over.
I'm too old for that. It's not like the F4 was at Lucas Oil and I could have gotten a ticket.
Besides, the big one is tomorrow.
Her TV remote isn't working so I'm watching a rerun of Everybody Loves Raymond and I can't change the channel.Yikes!
Man, UConn is a steamroller. I don't know that Purdue can stop them.Steamroller.
Yeah, but what if I did all that... And then they lost?
That would be a BRUTAL hung over flight coming home.
Purdue just didn't keep track of all the UConn guys on defense, and nobody except Edey seemed to be interested in playing offense.UConn let Edey get his points, and nobody else. They smothered Purdue on the outside.
But it is what it is. Got beat by a better team.
UConn let Edey get his points, and nobody else. They smothered Purdue on the outside.Badge, with all due respect to the Badgers, I don't think Purdue particularly cared if they won that BTT game. You could see it in their effort level. They didn't chase loose balls, they were a little lax on boxing out, they just looked disinterested.
It's kinda how Wisconsin managed to beat Purdue.
Badge, with all due respect to the Badgers,That's why I said "kinda" in my post.
Condolences to bwar and griller-- great season, regardless!As I told someone, ever since making the F4 I felt like we were playing with house money.
I can't tell you how much I enjoyed seeing this measured, pragmatic, honest response. Fandom rarely allows for such a response.He wasn't aware of my 2-year hiatus from Purdue sports after the 2022 tournament. So I had to clue him in on that.
If it were me, I would be sick to my stomach for a week. You are a better man! :-)
That's why I said "kinda" in my post.True, but TKR, Loyer, and Jones had 9. Gillis had 8. That's 35 points.
Nobody but Edey hit double figures against the Badgers. Smith had 7 on 3-10 shooting.
Maybe the networks need to reconsider when and what time they show the men's NCAA Final Four and Final games.They should reconsider this, AND reconsider the college football national championship. Monday nights are just terrible. It's not bad for me, being on the West Coast, as they put it right in a convenient viewing window. But that means that all of you back east are screwed.
https://www.wsj.com/business/media/the-womens-ncaa-tournament-outshone-the-mens-but-it-got-99-less-tv-money-74806707?st=vcsy78e4ns1j1rs&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
Well, they need to consider that most of the schools/eyeballs are generally in the Eastern and Central time zones too. Way many more missed eyeballs. I could barely make it through the first half last night. And I'm paying for it today. Work still happens to most of us.4 teams from the Mountain/Pacific time zone have played for a national title in the past 23 tournaments. Gonzaga twice, UCLA once, San Diego State once
Adam Rittenburg really digging into his bad take that the Big Ten hasn't won a national title in basketball in 24 years, so they should drop sports to invest more in basketball.I really hate this NC or bust viewpoint. In the 40 seasons (39 tournaments) since expansion:
The Big East has had 2 programs win a title since 1984. Florida has 2 titles 17 years ago, and that's it for the SEC other than Kentucky. Would you rather have 1 program rack up titles. Or would you rather have depth? Because it isn't just 7 runners up, its 7 different runner up schools (Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, MSU, OSU, Purdue and Wisconsin). And if you include the schools they've added, then you add Maryland and UCLA to the mix. But apparently the Big East should be totally cool with the state of Georgetown and DePaul, because UConn has won 6 national titles, 4 of which were random as hell, but also has missed the tournament a bunch of times and got kicked out of the conference for a period.
Adam Rittenburg really digging into his bad take that the Big Ten hasn't won a national title in basketball in 24 years, so they should drop sports to invest more in basketball.That’s a ridiculous take on his part.
The Big East has had 2 programs win a title since 1984. Florida has 2 titles 17 years ago, and that's it for the SEC other than Kentucky. Would you rather have 1 program rack up titles. Or would you rather have depth? Because it isn't just 7 runners up, its 7 different runner up schools (Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, MSU, OSU, Purdue and Wisconsin). And if you include the schools they've added, then you add Maryland and UCLA to the mix. But apparently the Big East should be totally cool with the state of Georgetown and DePaul, because UConn has won 6 national titles, 4 of which were random as hell, but also has missed the tournament a bunch of times and got kicked out of the conference for a period.
4 teams from the Mountain/Pacific time zone have played for a national title in the past 23 tournaments. Gonzaga twice, UCLA once, San Diego State onceYou're much younger than me. Did you make it through the whole game?
You're much younger than me. Did you make it through the whole game?I was flipping around actually. I think the last I checked it was about 10 minutes left when UConn pushed it out to 15
Roughly 22% of players with remaining eligibility are currently in the portalThis is not the college sports I grew up with and I don't like it.
Free agency is better than indentured servitude. Some would say that's what the players faced pre-transfer portal/NIL.I would love to be in a servitude where I get a free education, academic support, clothing, food, healthcare, the best training, and special status on campus.
There's an ocean of gray area between the two extremes.
Not a big fan of generating millions in revenue and the people who are supposed to be in charge of my best interests are just stealing the money from me.How does Title IX come into play with this?
But, they will probably need to embrace contracts and some sort of collective bargaining at some point.
How does Title IX come into play with this?I'm not an Attorney and we do have a few Attorneys on here who might have a better handle on this but I did go to law school, I just didn't finish and this is an interest of mine so I've researched it a little bit and here is my understanding:
How does Title IX come into play with this?It definitely applies, though to what extent and how is pretty unclear. I'm sure it will be litigated.
I'm not an Attorney and we do have a few Attorneys on here who might have a better handle on this but I did go to law school, I just didn't finish and this is an interest of mine so I've researched it a little bit and here is my understanding:I don't think that argument would hold water. Congress closed the Grove City loophole
Title IX is based on programs "receiving federal assistance". The major Football schools have maintained that their Football Programs do not receive Federal Assistance nor any "assistance" for that matter since they are money-making rather than subsidized by the institutions. Based on that logic, Title IX simply does not apply.
My understanding is that this theory has never actually been litigated. I would guess that is because neither side actually wants to go there. For the major Football schools the possibility exists that they might lose in which case they'd have a major Legal Headache on their hands. Proponents don't want to litigate it because if they lost then anyone could use the precedent that activities not receiving federal assistance are exempt from Title IX.