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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2772 on: May 19, 2020, 08:51:52 AM »
Too many redundant agencies, all with their own "purpose" - their need to exist, and be "relevant".

It was maddening, especially when the regulations conflict and they are reluctant to talk to each other.
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MrNubbz

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2773 on: May 19, 2020, 09:31:27 AM »
Like an ignorant litter of lackeys forgetting why they are paid
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2774 on: May 19, 2020, 09:40:46 AM »
Frankly, I'm more amazed things work as well as they do.  Stuff does get done.


bayareabadger

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2775 on: May 19, 2020, 09:51:22 AM »
No, I'm not saying that.  I'm just agreeing that other young generations have had their elders clucking in dismay, and that the elders have often been correct.
OK. So are millennials part of a trend of a drop in hardworking-ness and taking responsibility. Like they do it less than your generation, which did it less than the previous generation and so on and so forth? Or are most generations about at the same level, and millennials just took a dip?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 09:57:37 AM by bayareabadger »

bayareabadger

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2776 on: May 19, 2020, 09:57:24 AM »
I did a job last year in Lake County, IL and between Federal, State and Local, the developer was required to pull 37 different permits related to the site work. THIRTY SEVEN.
This isn't that surprising?

Not that all of them are particularly wise or that they couldn't be packaged into more efficent permits. But I'm sure in the process of developing, developers have managed to find well more than 37 different ways to cause some kind of problem to the area around the development. 

Obviously I don't live in that world, but I'd assume it's sort of like a piling up of situations like when you go into a park and see a weird sign (i.e. "Don't eat the dirt, it contains fertilizer") because some irresponsible jack wagon did something stupid back in the day. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2777 on: May 19, 2020, 10:01:21 AM »
I think there are more jobs today versus 1920 where you can basically slide by doing little.  Government of course was a lot smaller back then.  Many people lived with no contact with Federal government beyond the post office.  Few had to file taxes.  If you worked for a living, you worked.  There would have been white collar jobs of course, but I bet nearly all of them worked also, accountants, lawyers, architects, whatever.

My kids experienced the same thing I did in their old jobs, a lot of people who had meetings and did emails and little else.  Newly hired folks come in to set the world on fire, but that won't last if they see lazy incompetents being promoted.

847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2778 on: May 19, 2020, 10:18:23 AM »
This isn't that surprising?

Not that all of them are particularly wise or that they couldn't be packaged into more efficent permits. But I'm sure in the process of developing, developers have managed to find well more than 37 different ways to cause some kind of problem to the area around the development.

Obviously I don't live in that world, but I'd assume it's sort of like a piling up of situations like when you go into a park and see a weird sign (i.e. "Don't eat the dirt, it contains fertilizer") because some irresponsible jack wagon did something stupid back in the day.
That's not possible, even if they wanted to. Planning commission meetings with public participation render this point moot. And then for construction?

Nobody wants to commit an NPDES violation. Trust me, it's ugly, and they all know it is.

Are there problems sometimes? Sure there are. Nothing is perfect. But, for government at all levels to put a guy through 18 months of limbo (and paying interest) is ludicrous at best, and criminal at worst.

I haven't even talked about moving goalposts yet.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2779 on: May 19, 2020, 10:50:42 AM »
The regulations have cleaned up our air and water measurably, and importantly, though I'm sure inefficiently.  I imagine a modern car with 100% gasoline and no cats would provide superior mileage and power versus current engines, and be cheaper as well.  Imagine you had a choice between two cars, one with current emissions equipment and one without.  Most would take the latter.
The VW diesel scandal is a good example of this. VW knew that their customers wanted performance, so they scammed the emissions testing so they could boost performance in the real world but detect the test pattern and cut emissions just for the test.

The people want to believe their car is clean, but if it performs better than a similar-spec clean car from another brand, they'd rather have it and not ask questions about how.

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2780 on: May 19, 2020, 11:13:25 AM »
What VW did was contrive a way to avoid using the urea injection systems in other Diesels.  It wasn't as much about performance as avoiding an extra thing to be serviced every 10,000 miles or so.  The car mags at the time wrote about how they could possibly do this, and the answer was by cheating.

Upper management told lower level folks to design the engine so as not to need the urea, and the easiest way to do it was to  detect when the emissions testing was happening and put then engine into a low emissions mode that would not have been consumer friendly at all.  It was brilliant.


Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2781 on: May 19, 2020, 11:16:26 AM »

MrNubbz

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2782 on: May 19, 2020, 11:42:02 AM »
But I'm sure in the process of developing, developers have managed to find well more than 37 different ways to cause some kind of problem to the area around the development.
Good point the community in which I reside about 10 yrs back put millions into the storm sewer updating,pumps,retaining tanks,overflow pools,etc.I live 2 miles from a Great Lake our water bill is 3X what it use to be and this is infuriating as 5 of the last 7 days it's been a deluge.Problem is years ago shortcuts were taken here/there and a lot of storm and sanitary lines were merged or routed and laid improperly.Folks all over have had water in their basements or 1st floors and it just wasn't muddy
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 11:48:04 AM by MrNubbz »
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2783 on: May 19, 2020, 11:57:44 AM »
Some have speculated that the lowered output from the sun could result in a “Little Ice Age”, similar to the one that occurred between the 14th and 19th century and happened concurrently with mountain glacier expansion in the European Alps, New Zealand, and Alaska among other locations, and lower temperatures across the northern hemisphere.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/sun-solar-minimum-effects-space-earth-ice-age-a9519986.html
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MrNubbz

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2784 on: May 19, 2020, 12:04:46 PM »
That sux wasn't looking forward to 90s + all summer but like to start having some sun and 60s-70s for a change
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2785 on: May 19, 2020, 12:12:23 PM »
Good point the community in which I reside about 10 yrs back put millions into the storm sewer updating,pumps,retaining tanks,overflow pools,etc.I live 2 miles from a Great Lake our water bill is 3X what it use to be and this is infuriating as 5 of the last 7 days it's been a deluge.Problem is years ago shortcuts were taken here/there and a lot of storm and sanitary lines were merged or routed and laid improperly.Folks all over have had water in their basements or 1st floors and it just wasn't muddy
That's government "working", Mr. N., not private developers.

Storm sewers and sanitary sewers were customarily combined, until the late '60's/early '70's or so. It has been prohibited just about everywhere I know of, since then.
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