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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2744 on: May 18, 2020, 01:02:45 PM »
They used their underfunding to hire the most expensive engineering firm money can buy. As I mentioned, URS did the original design. So, there's your underfunding at work.

There is no "standard" spec that can be applied to sanitary sewer design. Every site is different.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2745 on: May 18, 2020, 01:14:50 PM »
I had a sump pump in my house.  Gravity is a lot more reliable.

Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2746 on: May 18, 2020, 01:43:21 PM »
They used their underfunding to hire the most expensive engineering firm money can buy. As I mentioned, URS did the original design. So, there's your underfunding at work.

There is no "standard" spec that can be applied to sanitary sewer design. Every site is different.
So many times our industrial customers would put out a bid and then award the work to the lowest bidder.  Sometimes the winning bidder would have impossibly low numbers.  We'd literally show the client our costs, and yet the winning bidder would still be significantly cheaper.  It rarely mattered.  The bid specified that the contractor was taking responsibility, after all.  

I'd say 90% of the time companies took the low bidder even though it was plainly obvious they were somehow skirting the rules.

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2747 on: May 18, 2020, 01:49:32 PM »
I suspect a lot of larger companies who value their public image but engage in polluting activities they pay to control would simple outsource, like the pulp operation thing.  You sell it to some smaller less public company who doesn't care.  Then you buy their product, at arms length from any nastiness.  So, the larger company can claim some kind of sanctity because they aren't doing the polluting directly, like companies who sell cosmetics and claim not to do animal testing.  Well, of course they don't.  They buy stuff from companies that do whatever animal testing is required for safety.

It's pretty easy to see companies skirting labeling rules for example, this would be no different.  I noted previously about how "Cage Free" with eggs means effectively nothing except they charge 3x for that label.  The hens don't know any difference.  This is true for nearly all food labels, gimmicks like gluten free, organic, no added artificial stuff, low fat, all largely gimmicks.


847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2748 on: May 18, 2020, 01:50:30 PM »
Engineering and other professional services are not subject to competitive bidding. URS and the other big firms know this. They have big "entertainment" budgets too.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2749 on: May 18, 2020, 01:59:21 PM »
I disagree. People understand the need to keep our waters clean, much more so than they did before the Clean Water Act came to be.
Those are the people who aren't the decision-makers in these huge companies, tasked with cutting every penny and rounding every corner.

The majority of people want clean water, and the minority of decision-makers don't give a damn.  They want to keep their jobs.  

“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2750 on: May 18, 2020, 02:02:41 PM »
It's pretty easy to see companies skirting labeling rules for example, this would be no different.  I noted previously about how "Cage Free" with eggs means effectively nothing except they charge 3x for that label.  The hens don't know any difference.  This is true for nearly all food labels, gimmicks like gluten free, organic, no added artificial stuff, low fat, all largely gimmicks.


Right, the Supersize me guy worked as a chicken provider and to make his "cage free" or "free range", all he had to do was crack the doors open at one end of the chicken house.  The chickens merely needed access to sunlight.  That's all it said in the rules - not a % of the chickens, not a square footage of space, none of it.  Crack the door open and put up a semi-circle pen to keep them from truly being free-range.  

It's all a joke.  Millions of dollars are spent to keep the public in the dark, and the legal red tape is so thick that once something does come to light, the public feels helpless to create change.

Rinse.
Repeat.
Make millions.
Laugh at the bleeding-heart libs.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2751 on: May 18, 2020, 02:35:56 PM »
all older meat packing plants were built on rivers

merely to dump waste
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2752 on: May 18, 2020, 02:46:13 PM »
The hog farms in NC were infamous for draining hog piss and S into streams.  They did not smell good either.

I don't trust anyone over 35.  

CWSooner

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2753 on: May 18, 2020, 06:54:43 PM »
Your experience is different than mine.  I worked in instrumentation and control for a few years and those guys would try everything they could to skirt the rules.

I have a small story from a papermill.  This papermill ran a controlled amount of wastewater into a river.  It was strictly regulated by the EPA.  They paid a guy big bucks a few times a year to make sure it was calibrated correctly.  This went on for 20+years, until the meter eventually went bad and there was no way to fix it.  They contacted us, we sent them a brand new, fancy meter, high end certifications, the works.  They install it, and immediately call us, furious, because it was faulty.  That didn't make sense to us, because it had been calibrated just a couple of days earlier.  Maybe it was damaged in shipment.  It happens. 

There wasn't enough time to make a new meter, so our guys went out there with some ultrasonic flow meters that you can just stick on the outside of the pipe.  These meters weren't as accurate, but their numbers were so far off it would at least put them in the right ballpark until we could fix the problem.  We install these meters, and are shocked to see that the flow measurements match the "faulty" meter exactly.

When we explain to the executives at the papermill that our meter is correct, they argue that they have had their meter inspected and calibrated a few times a year, and that our numbers must be wrong.  We ask to see the paperwork. 

Their guy faked everything.  All he did was test the electronics.  The company let this go on for years.  Here's the thing...we had been trying to earn their calibration business for awhile, and they always said their guy did it for a fraction of our cost.  We could never figure that out.  The only way to truly calibrate a meter like this is to take it out, ship it to a calibration facility, run it against a known standard, ship it back, and then reinstall it.  That's why most of these places had multiple meters, as they would just swap each one out as needed to keep their factory running.  The EPA requirements specified this, as well.

The guy knew what he was doing, and was making a killing with nothing but a voltmeter.  The company chose to turn a blind a blind eye, because they were saving thousands of dollars in labor, testing, and equipment.  The company was also either ignorant or willfully ignoring the EPA rules. 

Now the jig was up.  They were looking at paying 20+ years of fines from the EPA totaling well into the millions.  They promptly decided to "go with another contractor."  We never heard another thing about it.  We had a good relationship with that company, and in the next two years they never let us on their plant again.  I watched the news to see if they would come clean.  Nothing.  The guy should have gotten jail time.  Nope.

That's just one story out of many I have. 

If you expect it, you must monitor it.
I have worked with a guy who is now retiring from teaching, his second career.  His first was as an in-house lawyer to a couple of oil companies, and he dealt with environmental compliance.  His experience with the EPA--at least at one point--was that they would allow you to self-report and fix the problem without charging back-penalties.  Maybe not at the time you had the experience with the paper mill.
But this raises a question: Did the EPA inspectors never inspect the calibration paperwork?
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FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2754 on: May 18, 2020, 06:56:37 PM »
The hog farms in NC were infamous for draining hog piss and S into streams.  They did not smell good either.

I don't trust anyone over 35. 
I hope I die before I get old
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Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2755 on: May 18, 2020, 07:05:00 PM »
I hope I die before I get old
I read an article a few months ago about how the younger generation has an average IQ about 2 points higher than the older generations.

The most theorized reason?  Lead Paint.

Millennials actually had the highest IQ between all generations tested.

CWSooner

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2756 on: May 18, 2020, 07:11:14 PM »
I read an article a few months ago about how the younger generation has an average IQ about 2 points higher than the older generations.

The most theorized reason?  Lead Paint.

Millennials actually had the highest IQ between all generations tested.
Makes sense.

But there are things more important than IQ, which many millennials have yet to discover.  Work ethic and willingness to accept responsibility are two of 'em.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2757 on: May 18, 2020, 07:11:58 PM »
I read an article a few months ago about how the younger generation has an average IQ about 2 points higher than the older generations.

The most theorized reason?  Lead Paint.

Millennials actually had the highest IQ between all generations tested.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

 

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