header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: #15 Wisconsin (2-1, 4-2) at #12 Michigan (4-0, 6-1) Post Game

 (Read 20915 times)

Anonymous Coward

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3187
  • Liked:
Re: #15 Wisconsin (2-1, 4-2) at #12 Michigan (4-0, 6-1) Post Game
« Reply #168 on: October 14, 2018, 09:20:59 AM »
That was an ugly 2nd half for any UW fan to watch, starting with roughing the snapper. I've seen that called against UW twice now.
Agreed. That one penalty changed so much, effectively giving Michigan a two-score lead to start, and then that was that.
There were precious few penalties last night for both teams. Weird that one was such a rare one.

SuperMario

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 1266
  • Liked:
Re: #15 Wisconsin (2-1, 4-2) at #12 Michigan (4-0, 6-1) Post Game
« Reply #169 on: October 14, 2018, 09:34:56 AM »
Agree on the score being unexpected. As for your two questions. I think I can explain both of those (or at least I noticed both during the game and can share my best guess from then):
About Patterson,
  • if you're talking about why he had such happy feet (looked physically unsettled early), giving up on his routes in the 1st quarter: Only from recollection, I think those were all quick routes and exceptionally well covered. So quitting on them was the right idea and would explain why he pulled the ball and seemed reluctant to throw. (A good follow-up question is *why* these athletic WRs and TEs were so well covered versus a deeply injured UW secondary)
I was actually talking about the opposite. He seems to be decisive on quick routes. He seems unwilling to throw down field unless the receive is blatantly wide open. He got himself in trouble a couple times and took a sack once from recollection. If a receiver is wide open, he fires a bullet their way. If there’s any defense near, he pumps and pumps and always turns to his feet.
It may be lack of live game experience where he’s not comfortable with timing on long throws and he doesn’t want to make the big mistake. If that’s the case, I’m good, but it’s definitely noticeable that there’s a resistance to throw deep(er)

Anonymous Coward

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3187
  • Liked:
Re: #15 Wisconsin (2-1, 4-2) at #12 Michigan (4-0, 6-1) Post Game
« Reply #170 on: October 14, 2018, 09:42:27 AM »
What I feel is happening at Michigan is a based on the offense, not the Defense.

How many years/ times have we read all of your glowing reports about their defense being number on, all The shiny statistics ( you see what I did there Dudekd), only to have it not work down the stretch, and in the biggest games.

The difference now is, there is an offense that;
- doesn’t put them in bad positions
- keeps the ball for defense to rest,
- puts points on the board so Brown can play with house money and get super aggressive.

And it is not because the offense is explosive, which it is AT TIMES.
It is because it has balance. Having the read option threat is HUGE.  Kudos to Harbaugh for letting his other coaches have some say in the offense.

I truly think this could be a CFP caliber team, if they get and stay healthy and continue to expand Patterson’s spread playbook.

What’s missing?

Solid RBs.  Check
Great defense.  check
Ability to pass.   Check
QB who doesn’t throw picks. Check
I do like how the team is coming together. But this is getting ahead of itself. Michigan still needs to prove it can win against a good team on the road.

SuperMario

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 1266
  • Liked:
Re: #15 Wisconsin (2-1, 4-2) at #12 Michigan (4-0, 6-1) Post Game
« Reply #171 on: October 14, 2018, 10:00:38 AM »
That was an ugly 2nd half for any UW fan to watch, starting with roughing the snapper. I've seen that called against UW twice now.
What game was the other call? My brother didn’t know it was a thing and I was trying to explain that I saw it in another Wisconsin game earlier this year.

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37388
  • Liked:
Re: #15 Wisconsin (2-1, 4-2) at #12 Michigan (4-0, 6-1) Post Game
« Reply #172 on: October 14, 2018, 10:41:43 AM »
I understand protecting players from needless injuries, but I think we've gone too far.

It's football, with helmets and pads

we have had a penalty called unnecessary roughness for a few decades.  If someone is being too rough with the long snapper, that can be called.  Touching the snapper shouldn't be a penalty
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

SuperMario

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 1266
  • Liked:
Re: #15 Wisconsin (2-1, 4-2) at #12 Michigan (4-0, 6-1) Post Game
« Reply #173 on: October 14, 2018, 10:49:32 AM »
I understand protecting players from needless injuries, but I think we've gone too far.

It's football, with helmets and pads

we have had a penalty called unnecessary roughness for a few decades.  If someone is being too rough with the long snapper, that can be called.  Touching the snapper shouldn't be a penalty
Agreed. I saw two penalties yesterday that I thought were awful. The penalty we’re referencing and the targeting call against the Gophers. Two helmets making contact should not be targeting. Touching a long snapper should not be a personal foul. There’s safety and there’s pushing us to flag football.

Anonymous Coward

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3187
  • Liked:
Re: #15 Wisconsin (2-1, 4-2) at #12 Michigan (4-0, 6-1) Post Game
« Reply #174 on: October 14, 2018, 11:11:51 AM »
I understand protecting players from needless injuries, but I think we've gone too far.

It's football, with helmets and pads

we have had a penalty called unnecessary roughness for a few decades.  If someone is being too rough with the long snapper, that can be called.  Touching the snapper shouldn't be a penalty
I think that since they are specialized, typically scrawny players, just like a punter, that the rule is meant to treat them just like a punter. Would you recommend doing away with "running into" and "roughing" the punter as penalties, too? And instead turn it into an unnecessary roughness judgment call? Maybe that'd be better, but I'm not convinced.

Anonymous Coward

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3187
  • Liked:
Re: #15 Wisconsin (2-1, 4-2) at #12 Michigan (4-0, 6-1) Post Game
« Reply #175 on: October 14, 2018, 11:14:02 AM »
(...) and the targeting call against the Gophers. Two helmets making contact should not be targeting. Touching a long snapper should not be a personal foul. There’s safety and there’s pushing us to flag football.
Yeah, HB and I talked about that one live. I think we decided that either you have to outlaw QBs sliding feet first (not a realistic rule change) or you have to modify the targeting rules so that if a QB chooses to slide feet first, targeting is off the table once his head falls below the height of his standing waist.

bayareabadger

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 7848
  • Liked:
Re: #15 Wisconsin (2-1, 4-2) at #12 Michigan (4-0, 6-1) Post Game
« Reply #176 on: October 14, 2018, 11:24:33 AM »
I think that since they are specialized, typically scrawny players, just like a punter, that the rule is meant to treat them just like a punter. Would you recommend doing away with "running into" and "roughing" the punter as penalties, too? And instead turn it into an unnecessary roughness judgment call? Maybe that'd be better, but I'm not convinced.
I think it's about position. To long snap, you're looking between your legs, head down. If someone jumps on you, they'll basically bend you in half or launch right through you. 
I get why it's a call and it probably should be. (I mostly don't mind the punter rules either TBH)

bayareabadger

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 7848
  • Liked:
Re: #15 Wisconsin (2-1, 4-2) at #12 Michigan (4-0, 6-1) Post Game
« Reply #177 on: October 14, 2018, 11:39:40 AM »
I went back and watched the condensed version of the game. Hornibrook was off, the receivers didn't help ton and eventually Michigan just wore UW down. 

I looked at one inflection point where it got out of hand, a spot where a few mistakes cascaded, mainly on the drive that made it 21-7
-Defensive hold on a long third-down throw
-A Michigan fumble JUST slipping out of bounds
-Hitting the stupid snapper
-Getting hands on a maybe pick but not getting it
Then after the TD
-Taylor drops a first-down pass
-Davis doesn't run out a route as he looks for a holding call and can't convert a third down

That all comes in back-to-back drives of a tight game. If UW's defense is last year's unit, that can come out in the wash. Against a better team on the road when the tackling/discipline are hit and miss, it turns a maybe competitive game into a blowout. 

Bonus play was Hornibrook putting a third down pass too far out in front of Davis on third down, then punting from the 43 down 14 with less than 18 minutes left. Didn't help that a second-team All-American lineman got walked into the QB's lap by a fifth-year reserve tackle.


(Also, the first UW pick looked like a play of aggression. Yes it was tipped, but the receiver just didn't look open enough, at least for a pass that took a minute to get to)

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25043
  • Liked:
Re: #15 Wisconsin (2-1, 4-2) at #12 Michigan (4-0, 6-1) Post Game
« Reply #178 on: October 14, 2018, 11:46:25 AM »
What game was the other call? My brother didn’t know it was a thing and I was trying to explain that I saw it in another Wisconsin game earlier this year.
Two years ago, in Ann Arbor. I don't recall one against UW earlier this season.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25043
  • Liked:
Re: #15 Wisconsin (2-1, 4-2) at #12 Michigan (4-0, 6-1) Post Game
« Reply #179 on: October 14, 2018, 11:55:55 AM »
Also, this has to be said too. Paul Chryst and Joe Rudolph had a really bad day with play calls and decisions. The running game was working and they got away from it too soon in my opinion. Of course, there were times when the game called for passing plays (after it went to 21-7) but before that? Taylor only had 17 carries and Deal had only 1. That's not Wisconsin football.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Anonymous Coward

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3187
  • Liked:
Re: #15 Wisconsin (2-1, 4-2) at #12 Michigan (4-0, 6-1) Post Game
« Reply #180 on: October 14, 2018, 12:03:20 PM »
That all comes in back-to-back drives of a tight game. If UW's defense is last year's unit, that can come out in the wash. Against a better team on the road when the tackling/discipline are hit and miss, it turns a maybe competitive game into a blowout.
Yeah, and it needs to be said. This one wasn't an inevitable blowout. It felt in doubt (but with odds for a 4 to 10-point M win) until those two drives.
Bonus play was Hornibrook putting a third down pass too far out in front of Davis on third down, then punting from the 43 down 14 with less than 18 minutes left. Didn't help that a second-team All-American lineman got walked into the QB's lap by a fifth-year reserve tackle.

I neither understood passing in that situation, nor punting. Was very happy about the pass rush against the UW OL despite Gary being out. Not sure which OL and DL you're referencing here, though. Maybe I'll see if there's a torrent up that the copyright vultures haven't chased down yet.

Anonymous Coward

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3187
  • Liked:
Re: #15 Wisconsin (2-1, 4-2) at #12 Michigan (4-0, 6-1) Post Game
« Reply #181 on: October 14, 2018, 12:04:24 PM »
Also, this has to be said too. Paul Chryst and Joe Rudolph had a really bad day with play calls and decisions. The running game was working and they got away from it too soon in my opinion. Of course, there were times when the game called for passing plays (after it went to 21-7) but before that? Taylor only had 17 carries and Deal had only 1. That's not Wisconsin football.
That's exactly right.

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.