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Topic: You are the sports car

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FearlessF

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #154 on: August 02, 2019, 02:40:34 PM »
I found a 2007 with 30,000 miles for less than $30,000

If I could get 2 set of golf clubs in it I might be interested.  Could always trade for a Vette in a couple years

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847badgerfan

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #155 on: August 02, 2019, 02:42:41 PM »
I found a 2007 with 30,000 miles for less than $30,000

If I could get 2 set of golf clubs in it I might be interested.  Could always trade for a Vette in a couple years


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FearlessF

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #156 on: August 02, 2019, 02:44:43 PM »
back is always a concern, can act up at any moment, but it's been good for about 8 months
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CWSooner

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #157 on: August 02, 2019, 04:40:36 PM »
The stuff beyond this, I somewhat agree. I like some of the lines on the C8, but some of the stuff on both the front grille surfaces and the rear end seem busier than they need to be.

However, I would never expect a mid-engine Vette to look anything other than like a "boringly generic" mid-engine supercar. All the lines of a "generic boring" mid-engine supercar are driven by the human form, geometry, physics, and aerodynamics.

We're a long way beyond car designers being able to design nearly anything about a car beyond trim work. Back in the 1960's, you could make a car look unique. We had wind tunnels but we didn't have advanced computer design methods. We didn't even really understand downforce much--there are reports of some sports cars having tendency to "lift" at high speed instead.

Now, cars are designed in computers and wind tunnels to achieve drag numbers [and for sports cars, downforce numbers], and basic geometry and aerodynamics give you very little wiggle room. So cars all look identical except for the trim.

So some cars try to stand out with angular lines [Corvette, recent Acura designs]. Some are more clean, flowing designs [Ferrari, MacLaren]. Others try to stand out with distinctive styling cues [the gaping maw of a front grill that you guys all hate on the Lexus, but oddly I really like].

But all sedans look basically the same. Same shape. All crossovers look basically the same. Same shape. And all mid-engine supercars look basically the same. Same shape. Because they're all being designed based on the same constraints of the human form, geometry, physics, and aerodynamics.
Actually, I don't agree with the "boringly generic" part of Cumberford's criticism.  To me, it's not boring, it's just a bit ugly.  And it may be generic, in the sense that it doesn't particularly say "Corvette!" when you see it.
Yes, the mission of the car, and safety requirements, and aerodynamics drive the general proportions.  But it's not the proportions of the C8 that are objectionable to Cumberford (or me).  It's the blizzard of unharmonious lines and edges within those general proportions.
I'm not convinced that those creases, wedges, and blocked-off panels are there for aerodynamic efficiency.  The designers are making a statement with all of that.
Compare the C8 to a genuine race car, where aerodynamics are even more important than they are for a high-performance road car.


The Ford GT40 had to go 200 mph, so aerodynamics were not unimportant.  Panel lines are functional, and there aren't very many of them.

Or to a high-performance road car of 20+ years ago.


McLaren F1.  Cleaner, smoother, better-looking.  As is the other McLaren (model unknown) in the background.

As I said upthread, by contrast to these, the C8 Corvette looks garish and cartoonish.  To me, anyway.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2019, 04:50:21 PM by CWSooner »
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CWSooner

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #158 on: August 02, 2019, 04:47:30 PM »
The Caddy had "ventilated seats" (they technically aren't cooled).  The wife liked them a lot, I probably covered too many of the holes.  The GTI doesn't.  The main thing I miss is memory seats in the GTI, it doesn't have them.  The GPS has a good bit resolution as does the backup camera.

Nearly every car out there able to do 0-60 in 3 seconds or less has AWD, or is midengine.  You reach a horsepower limit where more doesn't help, a la my ZR1 to Z06 comment, even with broad Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires.

Incidentally, fun fact, all things being equal, tires have the same contact AREA no matter how wide they are.  A narrower tire will have a longer contact patch and be better for rain'snow, a fatter tire has the same contact area but it is wider and thus can resist cornering forces better.  One of the car mags did a test using a BMW with different wheels ranging from 16" to 20".  The 17" was best overall.  They weight less and the advantage of the lower profile tires on a 20" wheel is negligible.
"All things being equal" is a key point.  Drag racers use fat slicks on the back wheels, inflated at very low pressures so that they get the biggest contact patch possible.
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Cincydawg

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #159 on: August 02, 2019, 05:00:19 PM »
Yeah, low inflation increases contact patch,  What those dragsters do to tires is amazing.

I'd go for a standard Cayman really, probably one 4-5 years old.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #160 on: August 02, 2019, 05:02:55 PM »
Yes, the mission of the car, and safety requirements, and aerodynamics drive the general proportions.  But it's not the proportions of the C8 that are objectionable to Cumberford (or me).  It's the blizzard of unharmonious lines and edges within those general proportions.
I'm not convinced that those creases, wedges, and blocked-off panels are there for aerodynamic efficiency.  The designers are making a statement with all of that.
<snip>
As I said upthread, by contrast to these, the C8 Corvette looks garish and cartoonish.  To me, anyway.

Agreed, in that I was only really picking at his "generic boring" supercar statement. I was trying to make that clear, and then to expound upon a wider point that people who lament that all cars basically are the same shape are not realizing that they're the same shape because every one of them is solving the same design constraints within a certain vehicle class, whether that class is supercar, sedan, pickup truck or crossover. All that designers have to play around with is trim. 

I agree with you that all the creases, wedges, etc are making a statement. That's true whether you like it or not. 

Somewhat like the difference between a Ferrari and a Lamborghini. The basic proportion and shape of the two have to be the same, but the Ferrari tries to smooth the lines and curves, while the Lamborghini looks like a scalpel.

FearlessF

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #161 on: August 02, 2019, 05:04:47 PM »


Image result for 2020 chevrolet corvette c8 red

I think the Red one is better looking than the silver one
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CWSooner

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #162 on: August 02, 2019, 05:15:45 PM »
I'll stop beating this dead horse . . . after I beat it one last time.




There's a lot here that I don't like.  The creases in the hood look random, like two different guys working independently came up with two different ideas, and somebody combined them without even really thinking about it.

The black "grille-ettes" below the headlights look nonfunctional.  (My Mustang has very similar, slightly smaller panels that look like they do something but don't.)  If so, they just add drag.  And, IMO, they don't look particularly good.  I mean, what are they supposed to appear to be?  Cooling vents for the front brakes, maybe?

What are the horizontal bars near the tops of those grille-ettes doing?  Adding drag and weight?  Colin Chapman, the genius behind Lotus Cars, had a saying: "Add simplicity and lightness."  Chevy seems to be doing the opposite here.

Half of the "mouth" is blocked off with what appears to be black plastic.  That looks tacky and cheap.  If they don't need airflow, just make the grille opening smaller and have what's not the grille in body color.

This is all a matter of taste, but I don't like it that every line--from hood creases to headlights to the front edge of the hood (is that the right term when there's no engine in there?) points inward and down.  Except for the two lines that don't--the body-color panels separating the nonfunctional grille-ettes from the half-blocked-off grille.  It looks like what an art student would produce if told to draw a cartoon of a car that looks mean and fast.

As Cumberford said in his review, it will likely be a supremely competent car.  And I'm sure Chevy will sell every one of them at a handsome profit.

For awhile during the recession, the only car that Chevy was selling at a profit was the Corvette.  Corvette and Chevy Trucks were keeping the division going.
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CWSooner

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #163 on: August 02, 2019, 05:17:25 PM »


Image result for 2020 chevrolet corvette c8 red

I think the Red one is better looking than the silver one
Heh!

I don't see a Red one.  I see a silver one and an orange one.  Reddish-orange, to be sure.
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FearlessF

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #164 on: August 02, 2019, 05:20:47 PM »
maybe you're color blind like me?
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utee94

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #165 on: August 02, 2019, 05:26:25 PM »
I'll stop beating this dead horse . . . after I beat it one last time.




There's a lot here that I don't like.  The creases in the hood look random, like two different guys working independently came up with two different ideas, and somebody combined them without even really thinking about it.

The black "grille-ettes" below the headlights look nonfunctional.  (My Mustang has very similar, slightly smaller panels that look like they do something but don't.)  If so, they just add drag.  And, IMO, they don't look particularly good.  I mean, what are they supposed to appear to be?  Cooling vents for the front brakes, maybe?

What are the horizontal bars near the tops of those grille-ettes doing?  Adding drag and weight?  Colin Chapman, the genius behind Lotus Cars, had a saying: "Add simplicity and lightness."  Chevy seems to be doing the opposite here.

Half of the "mouth" is blocked off with what appears to be black plastic.  That looks tacky and cheap.  If they don't need airflow, just make the grille opening smaller and have what's not the grille in body color.

This is all a matter of taste, but I don't like it that every line--from hood creases to headlights to the front edge of the hood (is that the right term when there's no engine in there?) points inward and down.  Except for the two lines that don't--the body-color panels separating the nonfunctional grille-ettes from the half-blocked-off grille.  It looks like what an art student would produce if told to draw a cartoon of a car that looks mean and fast.

As Cumberford said in his review, it will likely be a supremely competent car.  And I'm sure Chevy will sell every one of them at a handsome profit.

For awhile during the recession, the only car that Chevy was selling at a profit was the Corvette.  Corvette and Chevy Trucks were keeping the division going.
About a decade ago, I recall your criticism of the new Camaro being along these lines.  You said something like, "It looks like a Hot Wheels version of a redesigned classic Camaro." 

I get where you're coming from, and I don't disagree with your assessment of the Camaro, or the Corvette.

Still, though, I don't dislike them as you do.  I guess I'm OK with these American cars looking a little cartoonish, and I'm most certainly OK with them not looking like European cars.  The Euros have no monopoly on good design, their infatuation with the "hot hatchback" is baffling and horrifying, as is their design of pretty much ALL midlevel cars.  Your standard base-level Fiat, Peugeot, Citroen, Cooper-- these are all pitiful and odious looking vehicles.  In general the German cars look better, although I have no love for Volkswagen vehicles that don't look any different than the Hondas they're competing against.



betarhoalphadelta

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #166 on: August 02, 2019, 05:30:25 PM »
Heh!

I don't see a Red one.  I see a silver one and an orange one.  Reddish-orange, to be sure.
Well, I do trust a Sooner (or a Longhorn) to know the difference between red and orange ;-) 

FearlessF

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #167 on: August 02, 2019, 05:42:53 PM »
sooners think Crimson is RED, which it is technically

Crimson is a strong, red color, inclining to purple. It originally meant the color of the kermes dye produced from a scale insect, Kermes vermilio, but the name is now sometimes also used as a generic term for slightly bluish-red colors that are between red and rose.

The Long Beach Red Metallic is more of a Sooner Red

The Torch Red is more like Husker Red

the Sebring Orange is more Longhorn Burnt Orange

So, I understand the Sooner's thinking that Torch/Husker RED is close to Orange
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