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Topic: You are the sports car

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Cincydawg

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #140 on: August 02, 2019, 12:17:53 PM »
The Caddy had "ventilated seats" (they technically aren't cooled).  The wife liked them a lot, I probably covered too many of the holes.  The GTI doesn't.  The main thing I miss is memory seats in the GTI, it doesn't have them.  The GPS has a good bit resolution as does the backup camera.

Nearly every car out there able to do 0-60 in 3 seconds or less has AWD, or is midengine.  You reach a horsepower limit where more doesn't help, a la my ZR1 to Z06 comment, even with broad Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires.

Incidentally, fun fact, all things being equal, tires have the same contact AREA no matter how wide they are.  A narrower tire will have a longer contact patch and be better for rain'snow, a fatter tire has the same contact area but it is wider and thus can resist cornering forces better.  One of the car mags did a test using a BMW with different wheels ranging from 16" to 20".  The 17" was best overall.  They weight less and the advantage of the lower profile tires on a 20" wheel is negligible.


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #141 on: August 02, 2019, 12:18:35 PM »
Here's a representative quote: "I am deeply sorry to be severely disappointed by the styling of the C8. I hoped for something really new and exciting, not a boringly generic supercar, mostly indistinguishable from the many and varied unimaginative devices that show up regularly at the Geneva auto show."
The stuff beyond this, I somewhat agree. I like some of the lines on the C8, but some of the stuff on both the front grille surfaces and the rear end seem busier than they need to be.

However, I would never expect a mid-engine Vette to look anything other than like a "boringly generic" mid-engine supercar. All the lines of a "generic boring" mid-engine supercar are driven by the human form, geometry, physics, and aerodynamics. 

We're a long way beyond car designers being able to design nearly anything about a car beyond trim work. Back in the 1960's, you could make a car look unique. We had wind tunnels but we didn't have advanced computer design methods. We didn't even really understand downforce much--there are reports of some sports cars having tendency to "lift" at high speed instead. 

Now, cars are designed in computers and wind tunnels to achieve drag numbers [and for sports cars, downforce numbers], and basic geometry and aerodynamics give you very little wiggle room. So cars all look identical except for the trim. 

So some cars try to stand out with angular lines [Corvette, recent Acura designs]. Some are more clean, flowing designs [Ferrari, MacLaren]. Others try to stand out with distinctive styling cues [the gaping maw of a front grill that you guys all hate on the Lexus, but oddly I really like]. 

But all sedans look basically the same. Same shape. All crossovers look basically the same. Same shape. And all mid-engine supercars look basically the same. Same shape. Because they're all being designed based on the same constraints of the human form, geometry, physics, and aerodynamics.

Cincydawg

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #142 on: August 02, 2019, 12:26:27 PM »
Any new car design of this ilk will have critics.  It's easier, and more fun, to criticize than just "lamely say I like it".

I like the styling of the new Jag sedans a lot.  I wouldn't necessarily buy one.  My GTI of course looks entirely like a Golf, which is a boring hatchback, might save me a speeding ticket sometime.

I totally agree that a "slow" car can be very rewarding to drive.  A superfast car can be, well, not fun much of the time.  My own "sweetspot" was the BMW 240i, plenty fast and responsive, still with BMW cred the 3 series had lost, and fun to drive and made nice noises too.

Of course I spent 18 years with a minivan.

CWSooner

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #143 on: August 02, 2019, 12:45:28 PM »
Agreed. Old quote that I first heard in relation to motorcycles but applies equally to cars: "It's a lot more fun to ride a slow bike fast than it is to ride a fast bike slow."

Again, I go back to the Ariel Atom. It's nothing in comparison to a modern supercar. It doesn't have launch control. It doesn't have a flappy paddle dual clutch gearbox (in fact, I think it ONLY comes in 6spd manual). It doesn't have ABS. I think they tried to give it downforce, but with a tubular steel half-open frame and exposed front wheels, I'll bet the coefficient of drag is dreadful, so top speed is probably not very high. I'm sure the "numbers" are probably far worse than even the base model C8 Vette.

And I'll bet it's impossible to drive without a smile...

...not that you can see it behind the full-face helmet you probably should wear while driving it since there's no windscreen.
That's why the original Mazda Miata was such a hit.  It was everything you ever wanted in an affordable British sports car, plus it had reliability, an electrical system that worked, outstanding quality control, and a great nationwide service network.  You could push it to near its limits on a twisty country road, and it was just a blast to drive.
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Cincydawg

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #144 on: August 02, 2019, 12:48:27 PM »
I went to a Mazda dealer to test drive a Miata, the sales guy laughed at me.

My sight line was right where the top of the windshield is.  No way could I fit with the top up.  I normally can recline the seat to get more headroom, but not in a Miata.

I don't even have the seat in the GTI all the way back.

CWSooner

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #145 on: August 02, 2019, 12:50:43 PM »
Any new car design of this ilk will have critics.  It's easier, and more fun, to criticize than just "lamely say I like it".
I don't know if you read the linked article or not, but the author, Robert Cumberford, is a long-time car stylist--he worked on the Corvette in the 1950s--who has been analyzing car styling for one magazine or another for decades.
He won't just lamely say, "I like it" if he doesn't like it.
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Cincydawg

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #146 on: August 02, 2019, 12:52:46 PM »
I didn't read it, don't really care who says the design is good or bad.  It's personal opinion, like liking a painting, or not.

I have yet to see one "live" so I have no opinion.

CWSooner

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #147 on: August 02, 2019, 12:53:53 PM »
I went to a Mazda dealer to test drive a Miata, the sales guy laughed at me.

My sight line was right where the top of the windshield is.  No way could I fit with the top up.  I normally can recline the seat to get more headroom, but not in a Miata.

I don't even have the seat in the GTI all the way back.
Yep.  The Miata was not designed for the 95-percentile American male.

You probably wouldn't have fit well in an MGB either, I'll bet.  And the MGB had more room than the Miata.
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Cincydawg

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #148 on: August 02, 2019, 01:19:41 PM »
I had a GF in grad school whose Dad was rebuilding an Austin Healey Sprite.  One rainy evening he INSISTED I take it for a drive, INSISTED.  It was pouring down, and of course his car was leaky like crazy, but I did manager to drive it a half mile and come back.  I was obviously bent over trying to get in it.  Fortunately they lived out in the country and no one else was out on a night like that.  I don't think I got out of second gear.  I of course told him the car was fantastic.  He said next time I came over I should drive it a lot further when it was sunny.

We broke up a little after that.

FearlessF

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #149 on: August 02, 2019, 01:20:57 PM »
seats go back further than in the past.  Every car/pickup I've owned I've always adjusted the seat as far back as it would go.

the 2015 Silverado double cab will go back a bit too far for me

I've also noticed this in a couple newer cars I've driven
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #150 on: August 02, 2019, 01:28:49 PM »
I had the Caddy as far back as the seat would go, it was a bit short of rear seat room for a car that size, and I think they limited front seat travel for this reason.  My Chevy Sonic (which the daughter has now) I had one notch up from all the way back, and it's a very small car.

Now I want a sports car.  I'll get over it.  I'd probably go with a Cayman if I really bought one.


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #151 on: August 02, 2019, 02:06:17 PM »
I went to a Mazda dealer to test drive a Miata, the sales guy laughed at me.

My sight line was right where the top of the windshield is.  No way could I fit with the top up.  I normally can recline the seat to get more headroom, but not in a Miata.

I don't even have the seat in the GTI all the way back.
I sat in a Corvette convertible at the Chicago auto show back in about 1997 or so. I had the same experience with the Corvette. My eyes were right at the top of the windshield level.

A few years later, I test drove a Miata for my buddy. Illinois at the time [and perhaps still] would force you to surrender your physical license when you had a ticket for a written temporary, and Carmax wouldn't let him test drive. My left knee (had to use that leg as it was a 5spd) was pinned between the steering wheel and the door. That was a short test drive.

Cincydawg

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #152 on: August 02, 2019, 02:13:46 PM »
I fit in a Corvette reasonably well.  The seat reclines a lot and I use that.  I've test driven the C6 and the C7.  I have an issue with getting in the thing because it's so low, but that's on me.

Test driving these cars is ridiculous, where can you take them?  You start at a dealership in suburbia 10 miles from the countryside.  You can punch it a bit but you already know it can go.  Maybe you find a cloverleaf and don't get behind some dawdler in a 328i going 10 mph.  Maybe.

I had bought a couple cars at a Chevy dealer near me.  He had another customer who bought a new Vette every year like clockwork.  He said the guy never asked for a lower price, he came in and dropped of his old one year Vette and drove out with a new one.  The salesman would call me and ask if I wanted to drive the one year old car a bit.  This guy had a gorgeous 1963 Corvette that he actually drove some, I was never there when he had it at work.

I prefer a shorter car overall which conflicts of course with my need for leg room.

FearlessF

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #153 on: August 02, 2019, 02:39:13 PM »


Now I want a sports car.  I'll get over it.  I'd probably go with a Cayman if I really bought one.


I assume you'd go with the Fourth generation : 718?
GTS???
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