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Topic: Is Urby In Trouble Here?

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bayareabadger

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #1176 on: September 18, 2018, 09:03:31 PM »
Ahh, another closet wolverine fan speaks.  Thank you.
AHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA. 
HB, if the answer is that anyone poking at the coach who said his only fault is he cares too much must like Michigan, well it’s just dang hard to take seriously. 
(F’real, Muck Fichigan forever and ever)

Honestbuckeye

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #1177 on: September 18, 2018, 09:09:05 PM »
It’s intersting, in some senses, PC is a way to skirt what some consider the realities of things. Like to be un-PC is to speak out some uncomfortable truth. But here, the un-PC thing is to deny a potentially uncomfortable truth.
Unless what PC and not PC are really about is standing for or against historically ... we’ll say less powerful groups. And if that’s the case, then it is what it is I guess.
Let me give you an example( or just go read CNN with today’s headlines)
A person goes public with claims of DV.  Virtually every media outlet and talking head rushes to judgement based on that claim, falling over themselves in the twiitersphere to show greater levels of outrage, and take down some bad guy.  Nevermind due process, gathering the other side of the story, or even denying ( that’s now called 
victim shaming) 

That’s where we are today.  You can call it whatever you want, but if it ever happened to you or someone you care about, people just pile on.

Did it ever occur to you( as the evidence screams) that NOBODY who was involved, could find credibility in her claims? Nobody.  Not the cops who were called 55 times, the families, the other staff members and coaches?

But it’s completly against the rules to reach out to her, or your tampering. And it is completely against the rules to say she is lying, because that is victim shaming.

You see, once accused, a high profile person is sunk.  There are no good options. Damned if you apologize, damned if you don’t.  ( you posts here and Bayareawolverine’s illustrate that). 

That is what we are talking about.  
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

Honestbuckeye

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #1178 on: September 18, 2018, 09:09:29 PM »
AHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA.
HB, if the answer is that anyone poking at the coach who said his only fault is he cares too much must like Michigan, well it’s just dang hard to take seriously.
(F’real, Muck Fichigan forever and ever)
You always do.    Always.  And for the record, that’s cool.  Good school, great program.  I just never understood your veiled attempts to hide it.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 09:11:31 PM by Honestbuckeye »
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

Anonymous Coward

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #1179 on: September 18, 2018, 09:23:15 PM »
You see, once accused, a high profile person is sunk.  There are no good options. Damned if you apologize, damned if you don’t.
This is a problem.
Hence, it's best to just report to Compliance.
And, if you make the mistake and don't, it's best for one's PR to at least not mess up the first apology.
And if you do mess up the first apology, don't keep publishing underwhelming apology/explanations to your social media account.
And if you do keep publishing recurrent apology/explanations, at least don't do it 3 or 4 extra times.
Just quit trying to look good. Trust that in a few months or year it'll almost entirely go away.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #1180 on: September 18, 2018, 09:27:04 PM »
This is a problem.
Hence, it's best to just report to Compliance.
And, if you make the mistake and don't, it's best for one's PR to at least not mess up the first apology.
And if you do mess up the first apology, don't keep publishing underwhelming apology/explanations to your social media account.
And if you do keep publishing recurrent apology/explanations, at least don't do it 3 or 4 extra times.
Just quit trying to look good. Trust that in a few months or year it'll almost entirely go away.
Said another way, don’t try to tell the truth or tell your side of the story, because people like Dudekd, who is in the majority, have already decided and take the self righteous position of judge and jury.
The post you just posted is sickening to me.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

Anonymous Coward

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #1181 on: September 18, 2018, 09:30:25 PM »
Did you read the old post I dredged up about political correctness? Because you seem to be accusing my belief system of being the opposite of what it is.
Also: my last post was 100% about recognizing the current environment and being smart in it. It had nothing to do with justice, "the right way for the world to be" or personal beliefs. Just about minimizing damage when a guy finds his reputation under threat.
And once Urban came under the microscope, he made a lot of bad PR mistakes. All of them were predictable in advance and avoidable.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #1182 on: September 18, 2018, 09:33:33 PM »
I will add, I guarantee you that you don’t believe for a second that reporting it to compliance would have changed a single thing. Your too smart to think otherwise.

Asking your staff to get and follow the police investigation, conferring with your boss and your Title 9 officer and Human Resources, and asking your troubled employee every day if things are ok at home....but the hey, compliance( who has no authority in this matter) would magically save the day.

And if he had,  not one person out there- including you, would have a different opinion.  Truth.  
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 09:35:27 PM by Honestbuckeye »
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

Honestbuckeye

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #1183 on: September 18, 2018, 09:35:06 PM »
I hate what this environment has become.     
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

Anonymous Coward

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #1184 on: September 18, 2018, 09:35:41 PM »
If you want, we can talk about the way we wish the world could be ... and wonder what it would be like if Urban lived there instead. 
But I figured it was more worthy of our time to talk about the way the world actually is ... and how a person with a suffering reputation can smartly live in it.
In any event, the latter is not the same as supporting a HOW DARE YOU culture.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #1185 on: September 18, 2018, 09:40:59 PM »
If you want, we can talk about the way we wish the world could be ... and wonder what it would be like if Urban lived there instead.
But I figured it was more worthy of our time to talk about the way the world actually is ... and how a person with a suffering reputation can smartly live in it.
In any event, the latter is not the same as supporting a HOW DARE YOU culture.
The environment we are in has nothing to do with Meyer.  Don’t be an asshat.
And a person with a potentially unjustifiable suffering reputation can’t do much.  Nuances of what they say or do might make minescules of difference, at best.
You are representative- at least to me, of the HOW DARE YOU culture. This thread has made me realize that.
For god sakes it is a football forum.   
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

Anonymous Coward

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #1186 on: September 18, 2018, 09:42:23 PM »
I will add, I guarantee you that you don’t believe for a second that reporting it to compliance would have changed a single thing. Your too smart to think otherwise.

Asking your staff to get and follow the police investigation, conferring with your boss and your Title 9 officer and Human Resources, and asking your troubled employee every day if things are ok at home....but the hey, compliance( who has no authority in this matter) would magically save the day.

And if he had,  not one person out there- including you, would have a different opinion.  Truth.  
I don't know if reporting it to Compliance would have changed anything. I only know that reporting to compliance was the responsibility of Urban and Gene. That it was in their contracts. That they didn't despite the responsibility and contracts. And that the investigation agreed.
Honestly, it probably would not have made any difference for Zach or Courtney.
However, at the very least it would have been a sign that everyone around them was caring and trying at least a little harder. And since it would inevitably have led to more sit downs between administrators and Zach, who knows, maybe it would have led to extra therapy or something would have clicked. But, no, I would not have bet on it mattering.

bayareabadger

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #1187 on: September 18, 2018, 09:46:05 PM »

You see, once accused, a high profile person is sunk.  There are no good options. Damned if you apologize, damned if you don’t.  ( you posts here and Bayareawolverine’s illustrate that).

That is what we are talking about.  
He's mad that everyone believes the victim. 
Now he claims the victimhood for himself. "These badger fans are actually MICHIGAN FANS" because they dare to say Urban is scummy. Lord, I at least expected the respect of being called a biased homer for my own team. But called a Michigan fan, it just speaks to lashing out. It speaks to a pitch of near tantrum. So defensive. 
(It's interesting that Urban is stuck between a rock and a hard place. If he comes out and says what he feels, Courtney Smith is a liar, it'll be hard to talk about respecting women, since you put one who was sort of family for a long time on blast. But he can't bring himself to express empathy because he doesn't believe her. So he ends up in this dance of not being on the same page as the PR releases that go out in his defense. I suppose he was right to walk back the medication/memory thing. It was a goofy one, though the doubling against that report just adds to the muddle)

Anonymous Coward

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #1188 on: September 18, 2018, 09:46:44 PM »
You are representative- at least to me, of the HOW DARE YOU culture. This thread has made me realize that.   
Sigh. Please do me the courtesy (or special favor) of reading this and get back to me if your opinion is unchanged
Though it’s objectively good to be nice to people – or at the very least to not be actively offensive – political correctness will never be a practical way to fix this about the world because its spirit of scolding is egotistical and off-putting, making it right for the wrong reason, which naturally causes the objects of its scolding to double down. 
We deserve a more humble formula than “HOW DARE YOU, and now that I’ve stolen your attention, guess who also knows the best way for you to live?” Because even if the person saying HOW DARE YOU is correct about something that really matters, their style comprehensively fails. (...) Turns out that "It's not what you say but how you say it" wasn't just a lesson for toddlers.
Unfortunately, the schism between these two sides has become one of the most entrenched aspects of modern western identity and has fueled a sizable chunk of our current volatilty. And tragically, these fights that seem so meaty and essential are usually empty. I.E.: there are good people on the non-PC side who aren't being offensive for offensiveness's sake but rather to spite the PCers for thinking they had the right to be so sanctimonious about anything in the first place. 
As for me, I'll admit I lean progressive on most matters, but I see PCness as a sickness and believe that finding a more patient and non-judgy way to express that "being a dick is fine if you're into that but actually, man, just try not to" is one of the most important upcoming social revolutions.

bayareabadger

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #1189 on: September 18, 2018, 09:59:19 PM »

That’s where we are today.  You can call it whatever you want, but if it ever happened to you or someone you care about, people just pile on.
This is a tough nut to crack, and I mean that from a human element. 
On one hand, if someone was accused of something that I believed to be not true, I'd feel a great deal of sympathy. On the other, if someone I knew was assaulted and utterly not believed, I'd have a great deal of sympathy as well. It's a somewhat unanswerable question. 
I suppose I'd try to have sympathy for all. It gets a little muddier when we're talking about damage control, muddled messages and press conferences. I heard on a podcast about the idea of complimenting someone for handling it well, like we're fans of non-answers. Urban gave some real answers, some odd non-answers. He ended up looking not great. Maybe that's because of the PC mob. Maybe it's because he didn't put much to bed. Maybe it's because he showed himself to be the cynic's image of him, snarling and indignant, handed a life vest but a little to proud to show you he can swim. 

 

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