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Topic: In other news ...

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Drew4UTk

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #15960 on: April 25, 2022, 12:52:50 PM »
They don't.

But a lot of folks think that open government retaliation for speaking out on public issues is a very, very bad thing. And frankly, we all should.
we're also pretending Disney and YOU or ME or any single individual has equal rights- that oppressing/suppressing our voice is the same as suppressing Disney- a company that has as big a platform as any platform there is.  

it wouldn't be a problem until the board of directors at disney saw fit to use their platform as a means to socially engineer- the same social engineering the teachers union has taken, and in step with a political party's- as if social engineering is the most important and noble cause in the world... 

"no law written by man that counters the laws of nature will stand the test of time".... yet... that is precisely what is happening... and the social engineering is and has impacted the aspects that are far more important... not to mention wrecking any recovering relations that was naturally occurring... and for what? 

get woke go broke.  it's a pretty sensible position to adopt- with evidence to back it up.  pretending, through media no matter if print, broadcast, or social that one side is massively more popular than another- which is precisely what is happening- is backfiring.... and it should... 

and the curious thing?  i don't know a soul who gives a damn if someone is gay, or trans, or wants to pretend they're plumbed differently depending on the whatever catalyst they choose- people just don't care.  people don't care if someone is black or white or anywhere in between- what color their hair is or if they have a tooth or not... it just doesn't matter... but... we're TOLD it DOES matter, and it matters SO much everything needs to come to a complete stop and we should divide and hate others that don't share our position.... which is what Disney/ESPN has and is doing... along with Twitter and FB/Insta... and all the major networks... and having a voice massively larger than any one single individual, they demand protection under the same contract as individuals... that's some cowardly shit right there. 

and... that is at the heart of all this... at what point should there be limitations on what you can say if you're NOT a person but a corporation?  

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #15961 on: April 25, 2022, 12:54:56 PM »
The reason that the Fantastic Beasts films are floundering is that A) the scripts are junk, and B) very few are interested in a grown-up Wizarding World.  Jo Rowling is getting into the screenplay business, instead of writing novels and then having screenwriters adapt them. Novels and screenplays are NOT the same.

As for the Disney special improvement district, what I've seen is that the original enabling legislation has rules and procedures for the operation and dissolution of said district, all of which the State of Florida has just attempted to end-run. Disney is going to keep the district, and the only ones profiting from it will be the lawyers.
They latest Potter film is probably tanking because it lost it’s star- Johnny Depp. Depp is one of the greatest actors in the world and arguably the biggest movie star in the world. Maybe Tom Cruise or Leo are equals. But that’s basically it. 

As for Disney- they shouldn’t have quasi-governmental powers. No god damn corporations should. Florida really needs to get rid of CDD’s altogether period. 

bayareabadger

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #15962 on: April 25, 2022, 12:59:03 PM »
again the Florida government is not its own entity

Its the people of Florida doing this

and also again no action was taken to close down Disney but only not to treat them special

you can call it hurting free speech all you want but it just isnt
I'm sorry, "The government=the people" is a silly sidestep. In this country, you are allowed to advocate for unpopular opinions. And the government, even if it represents the people, retaliating against unpopular opinions runs counter to every functional definition of free speech. 

The action was taken to make life harder for them economically. That's retaliation. I think we're in agreement that they shouldn't receive a special dispensation (lots of businesses shouldn't), but if you take that dispensation away for directly opposing the party in power, it's antithetical to the first amendment and some of the baseline principles of our society. 

And if the explanation is, my side should be able to chill speech at many turns, but also be able to use the property of others for my speech, even if they don't want me to, I'm afraid we are truly lost as a society. It's a shame, really. 

Drew4UTk

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #15963 on: April 25, 2022, 01:01:51 PM »
by the way... 

disney has strict rules about face actors... they can't talk on social media about anything to do with the job... they can't even tell anyone what role they play in the parks... they must stay in character at all times while in costume... then actors who have their face covered can't speak a single word while in costume... to nobody for any reason... it's apparently a firing offense to do so. 

oh, the irony. 

disney wants to play the role of private corporation and employ these rules without any opportunity for recourse- they actually bring in thousands of eastern europeans under contract to work- many completely unvetted by our DoS... they tell ALL to "booger off- this is our business not yours".. 

however.....

step on their 'rights'? the same rights ensured by the BoR and first ten in the Constitution?  They scream foul... 

this is a rich subject.... and absurd at every turn.  and it's only in the light due to a platform being used to implement change that agrees with a political side, and represents a small fraction of the populace the media wants us to believe is legion.... 

Drew4UTk

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #15964 on: April 25, 2022, 01:04:37 PM »
I'm sorry, "The government=the people" is a silly sidestep. In this country, you are allowed to advocate for unpopular opinions. And the government, even if it represents the people, retaliating against unpopular opinions runs counter to every functional definition of free speech.

The action was taken to make life harder for them economically. That's retaliation. I think we're in agreement that they shouldn't receive a special dispensation (lots of businesses shouldn't), but if you take that dispensation away for directly opposing the party in power, it's antithetical to the first amendment and some of the baseline principles of our society.

And if the explanation is, my side should be able to chill speech at many turns, but also be able to use the property of others for my speech, even if they don't want me to, I'm afraid we are truly lost as a society. It's a shame, really.
and again, you're pretending Disney should be managed the same as a person with inalienable rights... which, legally and because of corporation status they are... but you know as well as I do that is a loophole that needs to be closed.  Disney, though enjoying the same rights as you or me, has the individual ability to influence hundreds of thousands of votes- and they do influence... and therein lies the issue.  

how to fix it? 

hellifiknow. 

bayareabadger

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #15965 on: April 25, 2022, 01:09:15 PM »
it wouldn't be a problem until the board of directors at disney saw fit to use their platform as a means to socially engineer- the same social engineering the teachers union has taken, and in step with a political party's- as if social engineering is the most important and noble cause in the world...

What I’m seeing here is that they wouldn’t have a problem if they didn’t freely speak on an issue of high political interest. That if they agreed with the majority, and the politicians in power, they simply would not be punished for that speech.

(While it might be interesting to relitigate corporate personhood, for the moment, that is the law of the land. Citizens United made sure corporate persons had wide ranging speech rights. And if businesses can get punished for stances they take, we will be looking forward to a future of the government exacting more control over businesses overall)

GopherRock

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #15966 on: April 25, 2022, 01:12:47 PM »
And in order to kill corporate personhood, you need to go a lot further back than Citizens United.

bayareabadger

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #15967 on: April 25, 2022, 01:14:28 PM »
by the way...

disney has strict rules about face actors... they can't talk on social media about anything to do with the job... they can't even tell anyone what role they play in the parks... they must stay in character at all times while in costume... then actors who have their face covered can't speak a single word while in costume... to nobody for any reason... it's apparently a firing offense to do so.

oh, the irony.

disney wants to play the role of private corporation and employ these rules without any opportunity for recourse- they actually bring in thousands of eastern europeans under contract to work- many completely unvetted by our DoS... they tell ALL to "booger off- this is our business not yours"..

however.....

step on their 'rights'? the same rights ensured by the BoR and first ten in the Constitution?  They scream foul...
Yes, the government has a much, much higher standard when it comes to first amendment protections than private entities. That's how this works. 

If we want to get further down the road of government micromanaging private businesses, that's another convo, but I don't think one a lot of folks want to have. 

bayareabadger

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #15968 on: April 25, 2022, 01:15:28 PM »
And in order to kill corporate personhood, you need to go a lot further back than Citizens United.
Very true. But that case did break down barriers we had limiting them from certain kinds of speech. 

Drew4UTk

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #15969 on: April 25, 2022, 01:25:29 PM »
if things didn't move as fast as they do nowadays, with tweets and posts and media 24 hours- the economics of it all would sort it out.  it would sort it out in a manner that all would be reasonably happy.  

but instead, we believe in what we're told be people who live in a bubble and spin what news they care to share with us in a way that serves their agenda. 

this is the mess that will destroy this nation. it truly is... 

if the sun were to flare as never seen before, taking out every grid there is- the world would be an ugly place for a while- then it would settle into civility as we realize how much more binds us than separates us... 

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #15970 on: April 25, 2022, 01:37:01 PM »
Very true. But that case did break down barriers we had limiting them from certain kinds of speech.
money does not = speech. corporations do not = people. 

nothing will get fixed in this country until those two problems are fixed. 

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #15971 on: April 25, 2022, 01:40:39 PM »
Corporations have always had SOME of the same rights as people, individuals.  One can draw the line here or there of course.  Citizen's U was about a movie.

And I'd opine those with MONEY have more capacity for speech than those without.

bayareabadger

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #15972 on: April 25, 2022, 02:07:15 PM »
Corporations have always had SOME of the same rights as people, individuals.  One can draw the line here or there of course.  Citizen's U was about a movie.

And I'd opine those with MONEY have more capacity for speech than those without.
More capacity to make truly free speech difficult as well.

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #15973 on: April 25, 2022, 02:09:37 PM »
A wealthy person has more power than the rest of us, over the gamut.


 

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