header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: #3 Michigan (9-0, 12-0) at #2 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game

 (Read 882 times)

MrNubbz

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 13742
  • Liked:
Re: #3 Michigan (9-0, 12-0) at #2 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #126 on: November 29, 2022, 02:02:08 PM »
no need to worry about the $$$
it's out the door
would you rather be paying 5 mill and losing?

still a crazy number
Jeem took a pay cut to 4 mil - and look how that worked out.Woodsheddings don't deserve a shucks oh well we'll get them next year >:(
"I don't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member" -  Groucho Marx

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 27812
  • Liked:
Re: #3 Michigan (9-0, 12-0) at #2 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #127 on: November 29, 2022, 02:13:30 PM »
Frost took a similar pay cut.

Look how that turn out

now the Huskers are payin an NFL reject 9 mill
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Honestbuckeye

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 4317
  • Liked:
Re: #3 Michigan (9-0, 12-0) at #2 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #128 on: November 29, 2022, 03:25:25 PM »
yeah, there was nothing simple about that pass from JJ. He threw it on a 3rd and 9 while he got lit up off his back foot and let it rip from his own 20 yard line and threw a laser on a rope on a dime roughly 26 yards across the field and 20 yards down the field - that takes serious arm strength to be able to make that throw without having your feet set. JJ got a cannon.

OSU DB whiffed on the tackle baaaaad and it's a TD. But that's what happens when you play cover 0 all day long with no safety help. Someone misses a tackle after the catch or gets in the wrong gap on run D- house call.

Knowles never got out of it. Kept playing it like a stubborn bastard. Shades of Don Brown for sure. Looking for a scapegoat, I think it's him. Probably a bad idea to hire a defensive co-ordinator for the Big 12, a conference known for playing absolutely no defense. If I'm Ryan Day I am trying to go all in through back channels to snag Jim Leonhard to be my DC in 2023.
Yes- not taking anything away from the actual pass.  It was well done and not easy.

what I am saying is that if Cam Brown plays the technique he was taught and has executed all year ( soft coverage man or bump/press) it’s an easy tackle and at worst- a first down.  He played bail- because he was panicked. 

Also- other than being aggressive in nature- Knowles defense is nothing like Don Brown’s.  They called him Doctor blitz for a reason. Knowles is based on disguise- giving the Qb hesitation in reading it. 

In my opinion it is an excellent scheme for the modern offenses of todays college game, because it is very flexible, usually well disguised and can be run, pass or balance focused. 

It’s weakness is if you tilt it too much toward run or pass, it can be susceptible to big plays. Also, it is hard to disguise cover zero. 

I do agree with you that Knowles should have run it much less once UM established the clear ability to complete the deep shots. 

You mentioned the other day the biggest point- that the OSU DBs fail to turn and look for the ball. You were right on with that/ and that was a pattern all season.  The difference this weekend was even though they struggle to turn and look for the ball a lot this season they were usually at least in a good position to break up a pass or make a tackle.  Against UM, they got pretty panicky and were not even on position. 

many examples here but think about this. When Loveland, a TE, got 15 yards behind the guy covering him (Latham Ransome) how did that happen?  Ransome had not been beaten deep all season and was playing at an extremely high level leading up to this game. I assure you he’s substantially faster than that TE.  If you watch the film it’s easy to see, once again he abandoned his training on the out cut and way overplayed it. 
I think they will keep Knowles and the defense will continue to improve.  They helped them win a lot of games this season when the offense was bogging down, games they may have lost last year. They just laid an egg Saturday in the d- backfield and literally panicked.

lastly, I give Harbaugh a ton of credit here. He knew they were going to be intensely focused on the run with or without Corum.  That’s all anybody at Ohio State has talked about since last year‘s game.  He knew if he could hit a couple deep shots that his guys would gain momentum and he suspected, correctly, that the buckeyes would not respond well.  It was obvious, yet brilliant. 
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

medinabuckeye1

  • Team Captain
  • *******
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 6364
  • Liked:
Re: #3 Michigan (9-0, 12-0) at #2 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #129 on: November 29, 2022, 04:32:05 PM »
Couple things on the defense. 

There has been some talk here about Harbaugh/Michigan taking deep shots but they really didn't. I think of a deep shot as a ball that is thrown at least 20-30 yards downfield. Michigan's long pass plays were mostly not that, they were short-medium range passes where the receiver got free and ran for a lot of yards after the catch.

Michigan's first TD (discussed above by @Mdot21 , @Honestbuckeye , and others) is a great example. It was third and 9 and the WR caught the ball short of the sticks so the ball was only thrown about 8 yards downfield from the LOS. It went for a 69 yard TD because Cam Brown missed the tackle and the WR got 61 yac. 

That brings me to my second point. While I completely understand the focus on stopping Michigan's rushing attack and agree generally with the calculated risk of cover 0, there are down and distance situations where it is clearly NOT warranted and that was one of them.

Michigan got the ball at their 30 down 10-3. They forced a punt for a touch back and got 10 yards added on due to a hold:

  • 1st and 10 at the 30, Edwards for 2
  • 2nd and 8 at the 32, Edwards for -1
  • 3rd and 9 at the 31, 69 yard TD pass
Stacking the line on first and second down accomplished what it was designed to do*. It made Michigan's rushing game completely ineffective. Ok, great, but you don't need to worry about that on 3rd and 9. If Michigan wants to run for five or six yards on 3rd and 9, let them have it.


If Cam Brown makes the tackle where the ball was caught Michigan punts.

If the WR falls forward it is 1st and 10 at the Michigan 40.

If Cam Brown wiffs but there is a safety it is 1st and 10 near midfield. 

*This is where the "calculated risk" comes in. On Michigan's two possessions prior to that TD they had back-to-back three-and-outs largely because Ohio State's aggressive scheme had stopped their rushing game cold. On those two possessions they had runs of:
  • 2 yards on 1st and 10
  • 3 yards on 2nd and 8
  • -1 yard on 1st and 10
The 3rd and 5 resulted in an incomplete pass and a punt while the 2nd and 11 resulted in two incomplete passes and a punt. 


Adding in the two runs that led to that 3rd and 9, on five consecutive carries Michigan got 5 yards. Ie, the aggressive front was having the intended effect, Michigan couldn't run.

CatsbyAZ

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2217
  • Liked:
Re: #3 Michigan (9-0, 12-0) at #2 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #130 on: Today at 11:50:01 AM »


From Michigan Offensive Coordinator Matt Weiss earlier this week reflecting on Michigan’s success against the Buckeyes defense:

“The way that they played us, no one had really tried to do that. There’s very few teams that really came up and played with no depth in the defense and sold out to stop the run. That’s not something that we had seen. The way that they played created a bit of opportunity.”

“We were ready for everything: for overtime, for a two-point shootout, whatever came up. A lot of the big plays we hit (were) base, Day 1 training camp stuff.”

OUCH! Day 1 training camp stuff!



https://twitter.com/OSU_fb_news/status/1598343388050374663

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 27812
  • Liked:
Re: #3 Michigan (9-0, 12-0) at #2 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #131 on: Today at 12:33:05 PM »
how's the new Defensive coordinator working out?
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Honestbuckeye

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 4317
  • Liked:
Re: #3 Michigan (9-0, 12-0) at #2 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #132 on: Today at 01:04:28 PM »
how's the new Defensive coordinator working out?
Pretty huge improvement from last year in just about every category.  Thanks!  
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 27812
  • Liked:
Re: #3 Michigan (9-0, 12-0) at #2 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #133 on: Today at 01:05:22 PM »
damn it, I'm trollin Nubbz
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Honestbuckeye

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 4317
  • Liked:
Re: #3 Michigan (9-0, 12-0) at #2 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #134 on: Today at 01:06:11 PM »

From Michigan Offensive Coordinator Matt Weiss earlier this week reflecting on Michigan’s success against the Buckeyes defense:

“The way that they played us, no one had really tried to do that. There’s very few teams that really came up and played with no depth in the defense and sold out to stop the run. That’s not something that we had seen. The way that they played created a bit of opportunity.”

“We were ready for everything: for overtime, for a two-point shootout, whatever came up. A lot of the big plays we hit (were) base, Day 1 training camp stuff.”

OUCH! Day 1 training camp stuff!



https://twitter.com/OSU_fb_news/status/1598343388050374663
Sounds like typical classy coaching staff. 
especially a guy who is only 2-5 in the rivalry.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

MrNubbz

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 13742
  • Liked:
Re: #3 Michigan (9-0, 12-0) at #2 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #135 on: Today at 01:24:35 PM »
damn it, I'm trollin Nubbz
Maybe I can troll back in the RG thead on Saturday
"I don't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member" -  Groucho Marx

MrNubbz

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 13742
  • Liked:
Re: #3 Michigan (9-0, 12-0) at #2 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #136 on: Today at 01:31:45 PM »
Sounds like typical classy coaching staff. 
especially a guy who is only 2-5 in the rivalry.
Well Weiss was only hired 2 years ago but it ain't braggin' if ya can do it .Get pissed at DAY.What happened to MR I should've hung a hundred on them swagger?
"I don't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member" -  Groucho Marx

Honestbuckeye

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 4317
  • Liked:
Re: #3 Michigan (9-0, 12-0) at #2 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #137 on: Today at 01:44:51 PM »
Well Weiss was only hired 2 years ago but it ain't braggin' if ya can do it .Get pissed at DAY.What happened to MR I should've hung a hundred on them swagger?
Well if you’re going to bring up the “hang 100 on them” at least get your story right.

that whole thing started at a live press conference on the phone prior to the 2020 season- before the Covid cancellation.  Harbaugh- in public- accused Ohio State of cheating by starting practice one day early. Of course what he didn’t realize was that Ohio State was scheduled to open on a Thursday evening on the road at Illinois.  So of course they were allowed to start practicing a day early in conjunction with that.

Then- in private- in front of the team- He made the comment about hanging 100 on them.  Unfortunately there was a reporter on the practice field and it leaked out. So in other words Harbaugh made an ass of himself in public. Ryan Day made comments that every coach makes every day including hardball, in the privacy of their own circle.

of course they probably would have hung 100 on Michigan that year if Michigan hadn’t canceled the game due to “Covid“.  It was purely coincidence that Ohio State needed that sixth game to qualify for the Big Ten championship in Michigan canceling blocks that, at least originally. And of course Harbaugh took a photograph of his team having a “lively practice” on the Sunday after the Rivalry game was supposed to be played.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

MrNubbz

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 13742
  • Liked:
Re: #3 Michigan (9-0, 12-0) at #2 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #138 on: Today at 02:30:12 PM »
Ya I knew about the lively practice but the point stands, his bravado has left him better to move on from a guy who was never an HC in D-I.He had one year to prepare.I'm no booger fan but he is right about one thing born on 3rd base and is treated to a triple
"I don't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member" -  Groucho Marx

Mdot21

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 10872
  • Liked:
Re: #3 Michigan (9-0, 12-0) at #2 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #139 on: Today at 02:51:35 PM »
Urbs mind is a football super computer. Dude has football IQ through the charts, no wonder why he was such an all-time great coach in college. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbJ7ex0kixk

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.