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Topic: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game

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847badgerfan

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Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2019, 08:04:19 PM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on September 07, 2019, 07:29:03 PM
Here's the thing- I don't think this is 100% his offense. The stupid play calls, the horrible use of personnel- the confusing offense with ZERO flow or rythm to it? SCREAMS of Harbaugh.

I've seen all I need to know in two games. Harbaugh's fingerprints are STILL all over this offense. Harbaugh's QB's CONTINUE to regress under him from year 1 to year 2. Damn near every one. They get WORSE. Shea looks worse this year than he did last. The "QB whisperer" is more like a QB ruiner.

I can't pin this shitshow on Gattis. This offense has a new look, but there is ZERO doubt in my mind that Harbaugh is still heavily invovled. This thing WON'T work unless he stays COMPLETELY out. That's why it's not working through 2 games. He won't stop tinkering. He's a control freak who has NO idea what he is doing when it comes to offense.
Jim needs to lose the headset and just be a CEO. I saw him talking into the headset between downs. If you're going to say you brought in an OC and you're going to let him do his job... DO IT.
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Anonymous Coward

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Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2019, 08:05:23 PM »
Also: I am open to the idea of Harbaugh being too involved. But that's also premature. And I dislike the premise that it's literally impossible for Harbaugh's involvement to be good. I can imagine Gattis-Harbaugh tension. That'd be bad and things could spiral. But I can also imagine that Harbaugh and Gattis could effectively team up to improve our short yardage stuff. Harbaugh doesn't have Ebola. He's worth bouncing ideas off of on offense. We just don't want it to go so far that he's doing what Rich Rod did with Scott Shafer. Which situation we have is much too soon to say.
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Anonymous Coward

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Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2019, 08:08:15 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 07, 2019, 08:04:19 PM
Jim needs to lose the headset and just be a CEO. I saw him talking into the headset between downs. If you're going to say you brought in an OC and you're going to let him do his job... DO IT.
No. Then you're making him into Hoke. At Stanford and the 49ers, he was celebrated for his ideas on offense. It's wrong to assume he has nothing to add. And it's also too soon to say that his thoughts on the headset are "here's a veto; now do my thing."

It's also likely that every coach, whether hands-on or a delegating CEO-type, needs to be on headset because the guys upstairs will have questions they WANT his ideas on.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2019, 08:23:41 PM »
Quote from: Anonymous Coward on September 07, 2019, 08:08:15 PM
No. Then you're making him into Hoke. At Stanford and the 49ers, he was celebrated for his ideas on offense. It's wrong to assume he has nothing to add. And it's also too soon to say that his thoughts on the headset are "here's a veto; now do my thing."

It's also likely that every coach, whether hands-on or a delegating CEO-type, needs to be on headset because the guys upstairs will have questions they WANT his ideas on.
Weak PAC and weak NFC West. This ain't that.


Sure looked like the veto offense was that today.
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Anonymous Coward

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Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2019, 08:43:50 PM »
What it "looked" like is consistent with each of the hypotheses we mentioned so far. Until we see frame by frame lip-reading analysis, we'll need more info than we have to make a confident conclusion about what they were saying, let alone evaluate it after that. I know you're a "I trust my hunches" kind of guy. I'm a "trust no hunches" kind of guy. So my addition here isn't to bet against you but to disagree with your process. Maybe you're right, but you're guessing yourself across two or more steps to conclude that, and no one's hunches are always on.
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MrNubbz

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Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2019, 09:16:39 PM »
847 has his Barleycorn goggles on so you're gonna get his opinion like it or not.Can't wait for M-UW in 2 weeks,hoo-wa
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bayareabadger

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Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2019, 11:48:17 PM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on September 07, 2019, 07:29:03 PM
Here's the thing- I don't think this is 100% his offense. The stupid play calls, the horrible use of personnel- the confusing offense with ZERO flow or rythm to it? SCREAMS of Harbaugh.

I've seen all I need to know in two games. Harbaugh's fingerprints are STILL all over this offense. Harbaugh's QB's CONTINUE to regress under him from year 1 to year 2. Damn near every one. They get WORSE. Shea looks worse this year than he did last. The "QB whisperer" is more like a QB ruiner.

I can't pin this shitshow on Gattis. This offense has a new look, but there is ZERO doubt in my mind that Harbaugh is still heavily invovled. This thing WON'T work unless he stays COMPLETELY out. That's why it's not working through 2 games. He won't stop tinkering. He's a control freak who has NO idea what he is doing when it comes to offense.
Out of curiosity, is there any factual backing behind this? Or more just feeling?

Setting aside any questions of scheme to aesthetics, it seems like we’re at a point where anything bad is Harbs, anything good is Gattis. Which isn’t exactly unprecedented, but what if Gattis is like everyone else who came before, a guy with a nice rep who just won’t find success at UM?

Basically, could the offense be bad right now and it be on Gattis, or could it be good and a credit to Harbs.

(Also worth noting, he almost assuredly knows something about offense. He knows more than is bubbling leaps and bounds. Just does)
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bayareabadger

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Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2019, 12:00:23 AM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 07, 2019, 08:23:41 PM
Weak PAC and weak NFC West. This ain't that.


Sure looked like the veto offense was that today.
This is the most CFB answer. Nothing is good, it was just secret bad. 

It might be more logical that we have a first-time play-caller and we just have no idea if he’s that good. If Jim Harbaugh, who has evidence of being both capable of building good offenses and bad ones, why do we assume someone with no track record is actually a can’t miss guy. 
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CWSooner

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Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2019, 12:20:24 AM »
I wouldn't run Jim Harbaugh out of town on a rail based on today's game vs. Army.  Army made OU look very average last year, taking us to OT.  And OU had Lincoln Riley calling plays.
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Temp430

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Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2019, 06:52:34 AM »
Michigan’s DL is soft in the middle as expected.  Other than that no complaints about the defense.

On the other hand Michigan’s offense has issues.  Too many turnovers being #1.  The first was again on QB Patterson.  His second fumble was on RB Turner who completely missed picking up the blitz from the CB.  The third, FB VanSumeren was stripped by Army.  Some of the play calling was mystifying like going for it on 4th down when tied late in the 4th when a field goal would have been routine.  Not too worried about who’s calling the plays.  Patterson was off on some of his passes which could have been the wind.  Also, whoever was calling all those running plays was trying to give the defense a breather. At the time Michigan needed a drive and a score not a quick strike.

I think some of the issues will improve getting OT Runyan back.  Ditto with DT Dwumfour.  To be effective all Dwumfour has to do is bollox up the middle.

It was butt ugly.  Army was tenacious.  Most miserable  game to watch since Oregon in 2007.
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bayareabadger

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Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2019, 07:28:51 AM »
“Patterson was off on some of his passes which could have been the wind.”

Isn’t Patterson just always off on some passes? That seems to just be him. High upside, not consistent.  
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Temp430

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Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2019, 07:53:37 AM »
Quote from: bayareabadger on September 08, 2019, 07:28:51 AM
“Patterson was off on some of his passes which could have been the wind.”

Isn’t Patterson just always off on some passes? That seems to just be him. High upside, not consistent. 
No, Patterson is very accurate.  Best I’ve seen in long time.
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Mdot21

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Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
« Reply #40 on: September 08, 2019, 10:35:38 AM »
that offense 100% has Harbaugh’s fingerprints all over it. Even Klatt seems to suggest so in the breakdown I posted below. Michigan should be very worried. They are going to lose 3-4 games this year including to OSU imo. Harbaugh is going to really feel the heat in 2020, and he will most definitely lose again to Ohio State in 2020 and he might not be the coach in 2021. I’m predicting he’ll go to the NFL.

Klatt with an excellent breakdown of the game below.


https://youtu.be/ntr7JMxFKbI
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bayareabadger

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Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
« Reply #41 on: September 08, 2019, 11:03:12 AM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on September 08, 2019, 10:35:38 AM
that offense 100% has Harbaugh’s fingerprints all over it. Even Klatt seems to suggest so in the breakdown I posted below. Michigan should be very worried. They are going to lose 3-4 games this year including to OSU imo. Harbaugh is going to really feel the heat in 2020, and he will most definitely lose again to Ohio State in 2020 and he might not be the coach in 2021. I’m predicting he’ll go to the NFL.

Klatt with an excellent breakdown of the game below.


https://youtu.be/ntr7JMxFKbI
I heard him say the plan was bad and that Josh Gattis needs to grow up as a play caller. Didn't hear him say, Jimmy is meddling. 

I think he kinda undersold he RPO presence. The secret is that RPOs often look like runs up the middle. Because there's a run option, and that's what it is. 
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