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The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: Temp430 on September 04, 2019, 07:34:47 AM

Title: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Temp430 on September 04, 2019, 07:34:47 AM
Noon kickoff broadcast on Fox against one of the few teams that have an all time winning record, 5-4, against Michigan.  Army runs a triple option and is known for being unfriendly to opponents' knees.  Army was 11-2 last year, took Oklahoma into OT, and clobbered Houston 70-14 in the Armed Forces Bowl.
Title: Re: Army (1-0) at #7 Michigan (1-0, 0-0)
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 04, 2019, 09:29:24 AM
The Wolverine fans do get a pretty cool schedule this year. 

 Having the Notre Dame game right in the middle of everything instead of early in the season is a bold move, but pretty cool for the fans. 

While it is not optimal to have OSU, MSU and ND all on the same H-A cycle, it is at least an odd-numbered year where all three games are at home. 

Now I might have preferred a directional MI team to a directional TN team to kick things off, but that's a relatively minor nitpick. 
Title: Re: Army (1-0) at #7 Michigan (1-0, 0-0)
Post by: Mdot21 on September 04, 2019, 11:49:50 AM
Just stay healthy and get the win. 

I hate playing these kind of offenses because they cut block like a mother F’er and can injure players in your front 7 easily and they are so gimmicky and you’ll only ever see them once every 10 years an AD is dumb enough to schedule one of them.  

Just win the damn game and stay healthy. KNOCKS ON WOOD.

Good chance DPJ should be back. Could be a good week to get him back up to speed going into the bye week and getting him ready for the showdown in Wisconsin. 
Title: Re: Army (1-0) at #7 Michigan (1-0, 0-0)
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2019, 04:15:39 PM
It's going to be hard to judge DL progress this week. On the one hand Army is weird. On the other hand, Jeter and Dwumfour are now full-go.
Title: Re: Army (1-0) at #7 Michigan (1-0, 0-0)
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2019, 04:34:00 PM
Tough game - probably - get out with a win and no injuries and call it a day.
Title: Re: Army (1-0) at #7 Michigan (1-0, 0-0)
Post by: MichiFan87 on September 04, 2019, 07:35:58 PM
Just need to get an early lead and stop their running game to force Army to throw.

Army looked pretty bad on offense against Rice (which was a terrible CUSA team last year compared to MTSU), so I see no reason why Michigan can't shut them down.

We'll see, though. Apparently Michigan is extra prepared for this game.
Title: Re: Army (1-0) at #7 Michigan (1-0, 0-0)
Post by: Roaddawg on September 06, 2019, 09:43:15 AM
Michigan wins this and it won't even be close!  
Title: Re: Army (1-0) at #7 Michigan (1-0, 0-0)
Post by: MaximumSam on September 06, 2019, 10:14:47 AM
Urbs breaking down some of Michigan's offense.  Actually very compelling stuff.

https://twitter.com/MichiganOnBTN/status/1169743933389324289?s=20


Title: Re: Army (1-0) at #7 Michigan (1-0, 0-0)
Post by: Mdot21 on September 06, 2019, 02:06:23 PM
Urbs breaking down some of Michigan's offense.  Actually very compelling stuff.

https://twitter.com/MichiganOnBTN/status/1169743933389324289?s=20
Said it before. Could watch that guy all day as an analyst. Starting to get a little glimpse into why he was such a smashing success as a head coach. Dude is a football savant. Harbaugh is just an idiot savant. 
Title: Re: Army (1-0) at #7 Michigan (1-0, 0-0)
Post by: MrNubbz on September 06, 2019, 03:05:16 PM
Urbz was sharp just played too many favorite's,sometimes looked past the obvious and outsmarted himself
Title: Re: Army (1-0) at #7 Michigan (1-0, 0-0)
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 07, 2019, 08:36:19 AM
This is Army. Army games give each team like 1.5 drives per quarter. It's hard for me to see Michigan covering the spread in this situation unless they get a shutdown. But it's Army. Michigan won't get a shutout. I bet Army has at least one 20-play TD drive, where they average 2.9YPC and are very pleased with themselves, because "4th and 3 or less" is all they need to keep driving.
Title: Re: Army (1-0) at #7 Michigan (1-0, 0-0)
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 07, 2019, 08:41:26 AM
Army was king of the 3YPC long drive last year. Because they also finished #1 nationally in allowed stuff rate.

The key is obviously to force TFLs, requiring them into predictable passing downs. But this is Army. That's going to be very frustrating.
Title: Re: Army (1-0) at #7 Michigan (1-0, 0-0)
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 07, 2019, 09:08:59 AM
M needs to win and so does W. I want a big game in Madison in two weeks.
Title: Re: Army (1-0) at #7 Michigan (1-0, 0-0)
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 07, 2019, 09:13:50 AM
I don't think fans of either should (realistically) worry about losing. But Army is sure to be a nuissance.
Title: Re: Army (1-0) at #7 Michigan (1-0, 0-0)
Post by: Mdot21 on September 07, 2019, 09:41:43 AM
M needs to win and so does W. I want a big game in Madison in two weeks.
I don’t think Michigan is in serious danger of losing. Anything can happen any given Saturday, but that seems like a stretch to me. I think Michigan is in serious danger of losing defensive front 7 players to injury however. WHY they decided to schedule this game against that kind of gimmicky cut-blocking dirty offense is beyond me. Schedule Miami of Ohio or Central Michigan for this game and call it a day imo. 
Title: Re: Army (1-0) at #7 Michigan (1-0, 0-0)
Post by: CWSooner on September 07, 2019, 10:28:10 AM
Army took OU to OT last year before the Sooners won 28-21.  OU ran 40 plays; Army ran 87.  Army averaged 4.4 yards/play on our Mike Stoops defense.

We didn't have any serious injuries that I remember.  Nor do I remember players or coaches complaining about dirty play by the O-line.  But memory is fallible and selective.

The visitor's locker room was left in immaculate condition.  I do remember that.

Sooners visit Army next year.  The game is scheduled to be in historic Michie Stadium, overlooking the beautiful Hudson River, not a larger venue in NYC as I feared.  I hope to make the trip.
Title: Re: Army (1-0) at #7 Michigan (1-0, 0-0)
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 07, 2019, 10:50:41 AM
I don't think Army is dirty, per se. At least I give them the benefit of doubt in terms of integrity. But there is an undercurrent in NCAA circles to end their style of play because of its heightened correlation to leg injuries.** That's probably what MDot means.

**(as a partial remedy to triple option cut block injuries, in 2018, the NCAA outlawed blocks below the waist more than 5 yards from the LOS)
Title: Re: Army (1-0) at #7 Michigan (1-0, 0-0)
Post by: FearlessF on September 07, 2019, 03:14:03 PM
outstanding game!!!

didn't see this coming

I took Michigan and the points
Title: Re: Army (1-0) at #7 Michigan (1-0, 0-0)
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 07, 2019, 03:17:37 PM
I didn't take Michigan to cover. But it shouldn't be in overtime. The accidental Metellus TD reversal switched regulation from 21-7 (or maybe 21-14, if we argue the field reversal wasn't a big deal) to 14-14. And it wasn't reviewable. The ref will be disappointed in the mistake when the game ends. Fingers crossed, it doesn't impact the outcome.
Title: Re: Army (1-0) at #7 Michigan (1-0, 0-0)
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 07, 2019, 04:19:36 PM
That game sucked. The team so far sucks. The idle week couldn't be better timed. Michigan needs it's best OT and two key DTs (Dwumfour is #1, Jeter is #3 or #2) to finally play this season. Baaaadly. They also need to figure out Shea. Is he hurt? Get him right if possible. If he's not hurt or can't get right, consider committing to DMc. Under no condition should they ever again split first through third down between QBs.

Finally, Harbaugh and Gattis need to figure out the short yardage game. That was a major strength last year. It doesn't work well from the shotgun.
Title: Re: Army (1-0) at #7 Michigan (1-0, 0-0)
Post by: FearlessF on September 07, 2019, 05:09:09 PM
Army is a solid and dangerous team, but..............


not a good showing from Harbaugh & company
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 07, 2019, 05:42:21 PM
How much is Gattis getting paid?
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: MichiFan87 on September 07, 2019, 06:16:40 PM
It was a bad game by the offense, for sure. Patterson's fumbles were inexcusable to be sure, much like last week. The defense wasn't great, either, of course, but it should've never come to that. The refs stupidly blew the whistle on what would've been a fumble return for a touchdown, but that shouldn't have mattered, of course. There were some questionable PI calls both ways, too. The punt return team was also just terrible since they didn't even try to fair catch and just let it bounce further into their own side.

Fortunately the bye week is next so I think they'll figure out their mistakes, but we'll see.....
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Mdot21 on September 07, 2019, 07:29:03 PM
How much is Gattis getting paid?
Here's the thing- I don't think this is 100% his offense. The stupid play calls, the horrible use of personnel- the confusing offense with ZERO flow or rythm to it? SCREAMS of Harbaugh.

I've seen all I need to know in two games. Harbaugh's fingerprints are STILL all over this offense. Harbaugh's QB's CONTINUE to regress under him from year 1 to year 2. Damn near every one. They get WORSE. Shea looks worse this year than he did last. The "QB whisperer" is more like a QB ruiner.

I can't pin this shitshow on Gattis. This offense has a new look, but there is ZERO doubt in my mind that Harbaugh is still heavily invovled. This thing WON'T work unless he stays COMPLETELY out. That's why it's not working through 2 games. He won't stop tinkering. He's a control freak who has NO idea what he is doing when it comes to offense.
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Mdot21 on September 07, 2019, 07:35:46 PM
I thought the defense played pretty well all things considered. Army held the ball for 32 mins and they ran the ball like 64 times. Michigan's defense was on the field a lot because the Michigan offense kept stinking the joint up and because Army was holding the ball and chewing clock- and the longest gain the Michigan D gave up was I think 25 yards- and I believe that was also the only 20+ yard play they gave up. Army only had 243 total yards of offense, and both of their TD's in regulation came off of Michigan lost fumbles. The defense won the damn game by taking over on the final drive in double OT.

Offense and Special teams were the real shitshow of that game. Just a complete disappointment all around. Hard to find any bright spots whatsoever. QB play sucked. OL sucked. WR's/TE's medicore. Special teams terrible. The LONE bright spot of that entire offense was Zach Charbonnet. He had little room to run, but he kept grinding and picking up 1st downs and touchdowns and he was a MAN in blitz pick-up. Seriously. I haven't seen a freshman that good at pass blocking- oh like- ever. THAT is a future NFL RB. That is what an NFL RB looks like. Michigan hasn't had one of them in a loooooooooong time. Just a shame he was the only one to show up for the Wolverines on offense today.
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 07, 2019, 07:43:49 PM
but we'll see.....
Yeah. A "remarkable turnaround" is what they need. By definition of the term, it's rare and we shouldn't expect it. But is it possible? Yeah, and getting back LT Runyan, DT Dwumfour, DT Jeter, and WR Peoples-Jones could be major. But none of us have a great feeling about this season right now. Two weeks in, they have almost everything to prove and a couple unexpected things to undo.
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Mdot21 on September 07, 2019, 07:50:56 PM
Yeah. A "remarkable turnaround" is what they need. By definition of the term, it's rare and we shouldn't expect it. But is it possible? Yeah, and getting back LT Runyan, DT Dwumfour, DT Jeter, and WR Peoples-Jones could be major. But none of us have a great feeling about this season right now. Two weeks in, they have almost everything to prove and a couple unexpected things to undo.
Not worried about the defense. They'll be pretty good. Especially when they get some guys back.

The defense will be fine. Not worried about them in the least beat. Maybe the safeties in man to man coverage- but that's it.

The offense is a shitshow and that's not likely to change. Shea Patterson is GETTING WORSE and this OL played like crap two weeks in a row. Not sure how much getting DPJ back will help Patterson. The guy badly overthrew a wide open Nico Collins for a TD- Collins was wide open and Patterson launched it out of the back of the endzone- badly overthrown gave Nico zero shot and Nico was WIDE OPEN for the TD. Patterson also slightly overthrew a wide-open Ronnie Bell for a long gain. I still feel like Bell should've had that- but it wasn't a great throw. A better throw- Bell catches that in stride for a TD.

Patterson is missing open WR's with poor throws and he's making dumb decisions in the pass game and in the run game. That's two games in a row of this crap now. He never once kept the ball and pulled it and took off running on the read option, kept giving it to Charbonnet when a couple of times he should've kept for long gains.

Patterson is playing himself into the bench. If he keeps this shit up against Wisconsin- time to bench him in favor of McCaffrey.
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 07, 2019, 08:00:28 PM
I'm disappointed too. And today's showing was unacceptable. But you're unhinged about the O, so you risk me seeming like I approve of the O's trajectory when I point out that Shea Patterson has been seriously hurt since the first half against MTSU and we've been down our starting LT and starting WR.
Let's accept the role of nuance in our lives and say two things can both be true. Today was unacceptable. And today was explainable and fixable with these coaches and this personnel.
So I agree Patterson is getting worse. But the worse the oblique injury, the more predictable it is for him to be getting worse. And the supporting cast isn't complete yet, so we're overplaying Ronnie Bell (drops) and the freshman OT's.
Get Shea, DPJ, and Runyan healthy and THEN let's judge the offense and whether the QB is getting worse. I don't think anything magical is in the offing, for the record. And I'm upset too. But your face is too red and you are concluding too much.
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 07, 2019, 08:04:19 PM
Here's the thing- I don't think this is 100% his offense. The stupid play calls, the horrible use of personnel- the confusing offense with ZERO flow or rythm to it? SCREAMS of Harbaugh.

I've seen all I need to know in two games. Harbaugh's fingerprints are STILL all over this offense. Harbaugh's QB's CONTINUE to regress under him from year 1 to year 2. Damn near every one. They get WORSE. Shea looks worse this year than he did last. The "QB whisperer" is more like a QB ruiner.

I can't pin this shitshow on Gattis. This offense has a new look, but there is ZERO doubt in my mind that Harbaugh is still heavily invovled. This thing WON'T work unless he stays COMPLETELY out. That's why it's not working through 2 games. He won't stop tinkering. He's a control freak who has NO idea what he is doing when it comes to offense.
Jim needs to lose the headset and just be a CEO. I saw him talking into the headset between downs. If you're going to say you brought in an OC and you're going to let him do his job... DO IT.
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 07, 2019, 08:05:23 PM
Also: I am open to the idea of Harbaugh being too involved. But that's also premature. And I dislike the premise that it's literally impossible for Harbaugh's involvement to be good. I can imagine Gattis-Harbaugh tension. That'd be bad and things could spiral. But I can also imagine that Harbaugh and Gattis could effectively team up to improve our short yardage stuff. Harbaugh doesn't have Ebola. He's worth bouncing ideas off of on offense. We just don't want it to go so far that he's doing what Rich Rod did with Scott Shafer. Which situation we have is much too soon to say.
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 07, 2019, 08:08:15 PM
Jim needs to lose the headset and just be a CEO. I saw him talking into the headset between downs. If you're going to say you brought in an OC and you're going to let him do his job... DO IT.
No. Then you're making him into Hoke. At Stanford and the 49ers, he was celebrated for his ideas on offense. It's wrong to assume he has nothing to add. And it's also too soon to say that his thoughts on the headset are "here's a veto; now do my thing."

It's also likely that every coach, whether hands-on or a delegating CEO-type, needs to be on headset because the guys upstairs will have questions they WANT his ideas on.
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 07, 2019, 08:23:41 PM
No. Then you're making him into Hoke. At Stanford and the 49ers, he was celebrated for his ideas on offense. It's wrong to assume he has nothing to add. And it's also too soon to say that his thoughts on the headset are "here's a veto; now do my thing."

It's also likely that every coach, whether hands-on or a delegating CEO-type, needs to be on headset because the guys upstairs will have questions they WANT his ideas on.
Weak PAC and weak NFC West. This ain't that.


Sure looked like the veto offense was that today.
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 07, 2019, 08:43:50 PM
What it "looked" like is consistent with each of the hypotheses we mentioned so far. Until we see frame by frame lip-reading analysis, we'll need more info than we have to make a confident conclusion about what they were saying, let alone evaluate it after that. I know you're a "I trust my hunches" kind of guy. I'm a "trust no hunches" kind of guy. So my addition here isn't to bet against you but to disagree with your process. Maybe you're right, but you're guessing yourself across two or more steps to conclude that, and no one's hunches are always on.
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: MrNubbz on September 07, 2019, 09:16:39 PM
847 has his Barleycorn goggles on so you're gonna get his opinion like it or not.Can't wait for M-UW in 2 weeks,hoo-wa
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: bayareabadger on September 07, 2019, 11:48:17 PM
Here's the thing- I don't think this is 100% his offense. The stupid play calls, the horrible use of personnel- the confusing offense with ZERO flow or rythm to it? SCREAMS of Harbaugh.

I've seen all I need to know in two games. Harbaugh's fingerprints are STILL all over this offense. Harbaugh's QB's CONTINUE to regress under him from year 1 to year 2. Damn near every one. They get WORSE. Shea looks worse this year than he did last. The "QB whisperer" is more like a QB ruiner.

I can't pin this shitshow on Gattis. This offense has a new look, but there is ZERO doubt in my mind that Harbaugh is still heavily invovled. This thing WON'T work unless he stays COMPLETELY out. That's why it's not working through 2 games. He won't stop tinkering. He's a control freak who has NO idea what he is doing when it comes to offense.
Out of curiosity, is there any factual backing behind this? Or more just feeling?

Setting aside any questions of scheme to aesthetics, it seems like we’re at a point where anything bad is Harbs, anything good is Gattis. Which isn’t exactly unprecedented, but what if Gattis is like everyone else who came before, a guy with a nice rep who just won’t find success at UM?

Basically, could the offense be bad right now and it be on Gattis, or could it be good and a credit to Harbs.

(Also worth noting, he almost assuredly knows something about offense. He knows more than is bubbling leaps and bounds. Just does)
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: bayareabadger on September 08, 2019, 12:00:23 AM
Weak PAC and weak NFC West. This ain't that.


Sure looked like the veto offense was that today.
This is the most CFB answer. Nothing is good, it was just secret bad. 

It might be more logical that we have a first-time play-caller and we just have no idea if he’s that good. If Jim Harbaugh, who has evidence of being both capable of building good offenses and bad ones, why do we assume someone with no track record is actually a can’t miss guy. 
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: CWSooner on September 08, 2019, 12:20:24 AM
I wouldn't run Jim Harbaugh out of town on a rail based on today's game vs. Army.  Army made OU look very average last year, taking us to OT.  And OU had Lincoln Riley calling plays.
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Temp430 on September 08, 2019, 06:52:34 AM
Michigan’s DL is soft in the middle as expected.  Other than that no complaints about the defense.

On the other hand Michigan’s offense has issues.  Too many turnovers being #1.  The first was again on QB Patterson.  His second fumble was on RB Turner who completely missed picking up the blitz from the CB.  The third, FB VanSumeren was stripped by Army.  Some of the play calling was mystifying like going for it on 4th down when tied late in the 4th when a field goal would have been routine.  Not too worried about who’s calling the plays.  Patterson was off on some of his passes which could have been the wind.  Also, whoever was calling all those running plays was trying to give the defense a breather. At the time Michigan needed a drive and a score not a quick strike.

I think some of the issues will improve getting OT Runyan back.  Ditto with DT Dwumfour.  To be effective all Dwumfour has to do is bollox up the middle.

It was butt ugly.  Army was tenacious.  Most miserable  game to watch since Oregon in 2007.
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: bayareabadger on September 08, 2019, 07:28:51 AM
Patterson was off on some of his passes which could have been the wind.”

Isn’t Patterson just always off on some passes? That seems to just be him. High upside, not consistent.  
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Temp430 on September 08, 2019, 07:53:37 AM
Patterson was off on some of his passes which could have been the wind.”

Isn’t Patterson just always off on some passes? That seems to just be him. High upside, not consistent. 
No, Patterson is very accurate.  Best I’ve seen in long time.
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Mdot21 on September 08, 2019, 10:35:38 AM
that offense 100% has Harbaugh’s fingerprints all over it. Even Klatt seems to suggest so in the breakdown I posted below. Michigan should be very worried. They are going to lose 3-4 games this year including to OSU imo. Harbaugh is going to really feel the heat in 2020, and he will most definitely lose again to Ohio State in 2020 and he might not be the coach in 2021. I’m predicting he’ll go to the NFL.

Klatt with an excellent breakdown of the game below.

https://youtu.be/ntr7JMxFKbI
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: bayareabadger on September 08, 2019, 11:03:12 AM
that offense 100% has Harbaugh’s fingerprints all over it. Even Klatt seems to suggest so in the breakdown I posted below. Michigan should be very worried. They are going to lose 3-4 games this year including to OSU imo. Harbaugh is going to really feel the heat in 2020, and he will most definitely lose again to Ohio State in 2020 and he might not be the coach in 2021. I’m predicting he’ll go to the NFL.

Klatt with an excellent breakdown of the game below.

https://youtu.be/ntr7JMxFKbI
I heard him say the plan was bad and that Josh Gattis needs to grow up as a play caller. Didn't hear him say, Jimmy is meddling. 

I think he kinda undersold he RPO presence. The secret is that RPOs often look like runs up the middle. Because there's a run option, and that's what it is. 
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: bayareabadger on September 08, 2019, 11:04:00 AM
No, Patterson is very accurate.  Best I’ve seen in long time.
Interesting. Every game I've watched closely, there's like 4-5 possible big plays where he just sails it. Just ones where he's tapping his chest at the end and saying "on me."
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 08, 2019, 01:21:27 PM
Interesting. Every game I've watched closely, there's like 4-5 possible big plays where he just sails it. Just ones where he's tapping his chest at the end and saying "on me."
He has sailed an unusual number in the last three halves. Of course, this is all since he got injured. I think that's the simplest explanation given that:

https://mobile.twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1095022914343264256?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1095022914343264256&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fmgoblog.com%2Fcontent%2Fpreview-2019-quarterback

and

https://mobile.twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1148233534676570112?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1148233534676570112&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fmgoblog.com%2Fcontent%2Fpreview-2019-quarterback
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 08, 2019, 01:27:27 PM
Michigan’s DL is soft in the middle as expected.  Other than that no complaints about the defense.
Of Michigan's Big Ten DTs, 2 of 3 have missed most of the season to-date. And #1 has only had one snap. But yes, Mo Hurst, Willie Henry, and Ryan Glasgow aren't walking through the door. I hope the personnel at the end of the Army game tells us that the Ben Mason experiment is over, sans garbage time. Each of the DEs to try (Hutchinson, Paye, and Danna) did better when they stepped inside to replace him.
Mason is just too undersized and untechnical, so he bull rushes to compensate, and at this level it's easy to unbalance a guy like that. My "is this hyperbole of the day": Playing Mason as a M DT is an absurd tragedy.
Still, there's a big difference between the ladder rung below Hurst/Henry/Glasgow and the rungs way below that. And without Dwumfour and Jeter playing, we don't know which rung we have. A fair and optimistic take is that there's enough talent around the DT's for Michigan to have a winning defense if that rung is only one or two arbitrary units below Hurst/Henry/Glasgow.
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 08, 2019, 01:38:57 PM
I heard him say the plan was bad and that Josh Gattis needs to grow up as a play caller. Didn't hear him say, Jimmy is meddling.

I think he kinda undersold he RPO presence. The secret is that RPOs often look like runs up the middle. Because there's a run option, and that's what it is.
Re: that, I think the biggest problem in this game was that Shea was too injured for the appropriate number of keepers. And Army knew as soon as Michigan eliminated that option from the option plays.

I also agree if your point re: Harbaugh meddling is that there's no evidence that is true. In fact Fox Sports published a full game, 3.5hr "stare only at Harbaugh" video to YouTube and the evidence of any "meddling pattern" on offense is weak.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=mJybu18SdQg
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 08, 2019, 02:12:24 PM
Michigan's front suffered for two reasons, mainly: 

(1) Army could cheat up with 9 in the box and crashing LBs on standard downs once Shea's injury eliminated the keepers
(2) And after grading out well versus MTSU, RSFr Ryan Hayes (left tackle subbing for Runyan) had a rough day. Did every sack and Patterson turnover came from that side?
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 08, 2019, 02:13:12 PM
PFF thinks there was unsung work inside:

(https://mgoblog.com/sites/default/files/users/user203487/z0z0.png)
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: SuperMario on September 08, 2019, 08:53:44 PM
No, Patterson is very accurate.  Best I’ve seen in long time.
Yet incredibly inaccurate with the throws that matter.
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 08, 2019, 08:59:25 PM
Yet incredibly inaccurate with the throws that matter.
Rational poster, you are. Pot more, por favor.
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: MrNubbz on September 08, 2019, 09:01:15 PM
 Pot more, por favor.
Huh?Are you still home alone?
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 08, 2019, 09:52:14 PM
Yet incredibly inaccurate with the throws that matter.
Now *that* could be fair. Efficient on average but not in high leverage situations. I bet that was true last year. I'm not sure how to be quantitative about clutchness though, or how to know what is "national average" in it, etc.
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 08, 2019, 09:54:46 PM
Huh?Are you still home alone?
"Post"
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Temp430 on September 09, 2019, 08:01:50 AM
Wind and Patterson playing with strained oblique obtained on first play of season which could explain temporary inaccuracy and the side arm passes.  Just wetting the whistle for the walk by the Wisconsin grave yard.
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 09, 2019, 08:31:35 AM
"Post"
Correct. I'm trying to be very careful, typing with one hand still, but that one slipped past me.
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Mdot21 on September 09, 2019, 09:39:27 AM
Wind and Patterson playing with strained oblique obtained on first play of season which could explain temporary inaccuracy and the side arm passes.  Just wetting the whistle for the walk by the Wisconsin grave yard.
Bullshit. The kid is an accurate passer but what I’m noticing is he’s made for 7 on 7s and passing tournaments- not real football. His brain turns to chicken shit if he’s pressured or the first read isn’t there. He seems to shrink in the tight moments, not thrive in them. 

If the kid is hurt he shouldn’t be playing. If he’s that hurt where it’s affecting his passing then he needs to be on the bench and McCaffrey needs to be playing.
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: MrNubbz on September 09, 2019, 09:57:24 AM
Correct. I'm trying to be very careful, typing with one hand still, but that one slipped past me.
Still drinking with one hand also? ;D thought that was Latin or something out of my grasp
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: MrNubbz on September 09, 2019, 10:00:58 AM

If the kid is hurt he shouldn’t be playing. If he’s that hurt where it’s affecting his passing then he needs to be on the bench and McCaffrey needs to be playing.
Ed Zachery - Speed in Space,can't have the starter limping thru the season.Let him heal and get the back up some snaps.Could be a stinger or something more lingering
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Mdot21 on September 09, 2019, 01:09:27 PM
Ed Zachery - Speed in Space,can't have the starter limping thru the season.Let him heal and get the back up some snaps.Could be a stinger or something more lingering
great point. For all that speed in space bullshit we heard- haven't seen anything resembling that yet through 2 games. 
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 10, 2019, 04:33:40 PM
Wind and Patterson playing with strained oblique obtained on first play of season which could explain temporary inaccuracy and the side arm passes.  Just wetting the whistle for the walk by the Wisconsin grave yard.
I hope it's less the wind, more the oblique, and that it can resolve quickly. A Big Ten QB needs to be able to manage a windy game. But no QB can throw if he can't twist his torso. Abdominal obliques are some of the most important muscles for throwing.
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 10, 2019, 06:44:47 PM
Bullshit. The kid is an accurate passer but what I’m noticing is he’s made for 7 on 7s and passing tournaments- not real football. His brain turns to chicken shit if he’s pressured or the first read isn’t there. He seems to shrink in the tight moments, not thrive in them.

If the kid is hurt he shouldn’t be playing. If he’s that hurt where it’s affecting his passing then he needs to be on the bench and McCaffrey needs to be playing.
While starting a post with "Bullshit" is kind of unhinged, I do agree there's a pattern of Patterson struggling with rhythm throws. As in, whereas he's above average, maybe even great, at completing late in the clock, he seems below average at letting it go quickly. Slow processing could be real for him.

Still, it makes sense to wait before finalizing our opinions about the slowness of Shea's decision-making -- because the injury, 2019 turnovers psyche, and the coaches turtling over his turnovers could all be distorting our view there.
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 10, 2019, 06:46:50 PM
I'm also with you that he should have sat out the last 7 quarters of football, though. It's seriously counter-productive to play an injured QB, especially in the OOC, and especially when you trust his back-up. I've already given enough "especiallies" but if I want the trifecta, I'd say that Michigan could have beaten Army even if Dylan had played every snap and only (a) not turned it over and (b) run on arc keepers 50+% of the time; they were wide open for 10+ yards the majority of the time.
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: MrNubbz on September 10, 2019, 06:52:25 PM
Wonder if the staff sans Harbaugh thinks his injury is more pressing or if SP himself thinx he's good to go
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: FearlessF on September 10, 2019, 08:36:41 PM
obviously they do not trust Dylan
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 11, 2019, 12:28:53 AM
obviously they do not trust Dylan
They've signaled both ways on this. DMc's snap count as a back-up in the first two games, especially snaps in the 1st half, signifies respect. And yet given the Patterson injury, we might reasonably expect even more. This is just another time where it's premature to finalize an opinion.
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Temp430 on September 11, 2019, 08:03:05 AM
It’s obvious Michigan’s offense has taken a huge step backwards.  QB development is the worst of it.  Starting QB can’t hang onto the ball or hit the broad side of a barn when passing.  Backup QB worse...they pulled him after one play against Army.  OL leaks like the Titanic.  They should just forfeit the games at Wisconsin and Penn State where they have no chance.  At least that would deny them the satisfaction of revenge for the butt kicking they got last year and reduce the team’s carbon foot print.
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: MrNubbz on September 11, 2019, 08:14:05 AM
It's 2 weeks in,how complicated can an offense be really,there's just one ball?How hurt is SP?Ms got 10 days get it together
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Mdot21 on September 11, 2019, 09:45:41 AM
It's 2 weeks in,how complicated can an offense be really,there's just one ball?How hurt is SP?Ms got 10 days get it together
apparently he has an oblique injury. how severe is anyones guess cause the Michigan coach doesn't share jackshit when it comes to injuries. he looks to keep everyone guessing. if it's an oblique injury it's probably affecting his running and throwing. so....PUT HIM ON THE BENCH AND LET HIM HEAL. 

A 100% McCaffrey is better than a 70% Shea.
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: FearlessF on September 11, 2019, 11:19:01 AM


A 100% McCaffrey is better than a 70% Shea.
apparently Jimmy "the QB whisperer" does not agree
is it because McC doesn't grasp the playbook?  I doubt it.
is it because he's prone to turnovers in practice?  That would be my guess
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: SFBadger96 on September 11, 2019, 11:53:10 AM
It is a rare college coach who plays someone despite thinking a different player gives him a better chance to win.
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: FearlessF on September 11, 2019, 11:55:29 AM
Jimmy is a rare bird
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Mdot21 on September 11, 2019, 12:55:33 PM
It is a rare college coach who plays someone despite thinking a different player gives him a better chance to win.
I don’t know. Harbaugh is old school. Probably has CTE to boot. Harbaugh wants his starters to play hurt. It’s like a badge of honor for him. It is well known that he is know for pressuring guys that are hurt to play- one of the biggest reasons why Richard Sherman hated Harbaugh at Stanford. Rashan Gary’s mom had beef with Harbaugh over this same issue as well.
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 11, 2019, 01:04:16 PM
It is a rare college coach who plays someone despite thinking a different player gives him a better chance to win.
I agree. (Not that coaches can't make mistakes or be slow to make the right change.)
Title: Re: Army (1-1) at #7 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) Post Game
Post by: Mdot21 on September 11, 2019, 01:29:57 PM
Jimmy is a rare bird
he’s definitely weird as hell, probably autistic, probably has CTE, and he’s a pretty good football coach. He’s pretty rare.