We B1G Ten fans need to come to grips with reality. OSU is on another level than the rest of the conference. It started with Meyer and it will clearly continue under Ryan Day. That dood can coach and recruit.I don’t feel that way at all. I predict right now that Ohio State will not even run the table this year- penn state and Michigan back to back is just about impossible.
They are going to steamroll anyone in their path for the rest of this season, and I'd pick them to destroy anyone they come up against in the playoff.
The biggest question is whether any other school in this conference can catch up.
I don't see it.
We are the B1G OSU and little 13 (some littler than others).
Penn St and Michigan back to back will be a huge test.Neither team is close to OSU.
(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgiphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fmedia%2FB6Jr28VwfxUFa%2F200.gif&hash=616f0dbb42badf4001a18ff19a5f298a)To the moon, Alice!!
Penn St and Michigan back to back will be a huge test.
We B1G Ten fans need to come to grips with reality. OSU is on another level than the rest of the conference. It started with Meyer and it will clearly continue under Ryan Day. That dood can coach and recruit.
They are going to steamroll anyone in their path for the rest of this season, and I'd pick them to destroy anyone they come up against in the playoff.
The biggest question is whether any other school in this conference can catch up.
I don't see it.
We are the B1G OSU and little 13 (some littler than others).
To the moon, Alice!!Ahh yes. The good old days, when domestic violence was a hilarious punchline :smiley_confused1:
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/s-Vb6jeWYe0/hqdefault.jpg)
Neither team is close to OSU.Last two seasons- OSU going on the road after tough, emotional home wins, got smoked by 2 teams nowhere near as good as the two teams at the end of this year’s schedule.
Ahh yes. The good old days, when domestic violence was a hilarious punchline :smiley_confused1:Relax.
Last two seasons- OSU going on the road after tough, emotional home wins, got smoked by 2 teams nowhere near as good as the two teams at the end of this year’s schedule.Not happening this year.
Last two seasons- OSU going on the road after tough, emotional home wins, got smoked by 2 teams nowhere near as good as the two teams at the end of this year’s schedule.Good teams can lose games. OSU is still far above PSU and MSU.
Neither team is close to OSU.Still having flashbacks to having to play MSU the week before the Michigan game in 2015.
Penn State, M*ch, and B1G Championship game, according to ESPN is the toughest 3 weeks of football anyone plays this year.And they project to be favored by double digits three games in a row.
I have been saying OSU is the most complete team out there (with Fields healthy). They remind me of Bama 2018 (before the NCG).He got beat up pretty good yesterday. Probably the first time this season?? I don't think any other defense has been able to consistently get to him like UW did for 3 quarters. I don't think there is anyone ready, behind him.
Not happening this year.agreed
Not happening this year.Trying to hex us at least PSU is at home
I think anyone can recruit in C-bus. There would be "elite" versus "excellent" perhaps as a difference.Or we could have just kept Burrow not sure if he'd still be eligible.That is one thing many Buckeye fans believe Urbz faffed in '16 & '17
Fields certainly has been the "X factor" needed to raise them from excellent to elite this year, I think, but the rest of the team is elite. You're welcome.
Neither Penn St nor Michigan will be afraid of the Buckeyes.hah, Jimmy is scared
We B1G Ten fans need to come to grips with reality. OSU is on another level than the rest of the conference. It started with Meyer and it will clearly continue under Ryan Day. That dood can coach and recruit.
They are going to steamroll anyone in their path for the rest of this season, and I'd pick them to destroy anyone they come up against in the playoff.
The biggest question is whether any other school in this conference can catch up.
I don't see it.
We are the B1G OSU and little 13 (some littler than others).
Or we could have just kept Burrow not sure if he'd still be eligible.That is one thing many Buckeye fans believe Urbz faffed in '16 & '17This has reality in the title, so that wasn't gonna happen, unless he starts and then you lose Haskins. Which coulda been its own thing.
Penn State has more depth than they have had in a long time. They don't have any glaring weaknesses at any position. In fact, the may be the overall most talent Penn State has had since the 90's. Yet, on a position by position basis, OSU is even better. It is mind blowing.
That said....Michigan shouldn't worry OSU one bit. Penn State shouldn't be taken lightly. If there is one other team in the conference that I think has the speed, size and talent to keep up with the Buckeyes.....it's the kitties. And that's not to take anything away from my Gophers. They keep playing better and better each week. But it is impossible to judge this team based upon who they've played.
We B1G Ten fans need to come to grips with reality. OSU is on another level than the rest of the conference.
Someone pointed out on another board that Northwestern is the only team OSU has played, with a losing record.Ya typically want to remove OSU's loss from the equation if you really want a fair representation. Therefore, Miami, Nebraska and MSU are all 4-3.
Miami, Nebraska and Michigan St are all 4-4 and all of the others are over .500.
Penn State, M*ch, and B1G Championship game, according to ESPN is the toughest 3 weeks of football anyone plays this year.While probably true, Texas A&M and Auburn think this is cute.
Who was that joker suggesting Wisconsin would easily beat OSU?
This has reality in the title, so that wasn't gonna happen, unless he starts and then you lose Haskins. Which coulda been its own thing.Problem was in '16 JT was pedestrian but he was surrounded with Guys headed for Sunday.When joe came in the 4th qtr receivers didn't have to stop,lean forward or reach back to catch the ball.Hit them in stride arms extended like your seeing in Baton Rouge.Later on that year Clemson exposed this charade - stacked the line took away everything underneath and watched JT arm punt everything over 25 yds.The following spring Urbz handed the starting QB job to JT - half the fanbase was livid. Burrow had went 22-28 the season before but JT had Meyers Party Picture or something.Haskins was still green,then Burrow broke his thumb,but Haskins mounted a comeback vs Michigan that season and it was obvious JT shouldn't had the gig.Problem was that defensive line over 2 seasons sent 6 guys to the League - they were Bama ready.Urbz affection for JT clouded his judgement and hurt the chance for a program NC.But the dood could recruit
(Now I'm imagining a world where Burrow starts and has some issues and there's laments about Haskins starting elsewhere and benching J.T.)
Anyway, Fields is more talented than all of 'em.
While probably true, Texas A&M and Auburn think this is cute.I'm sure Auburn is already game-planning for Samford. Shiver me timbers!!
I don't know if buckeyecraaazy is still here or not, but she texted me after the LSU/Florida game that she was scared for her Buckeyes to have to play LSU in the playoffs. I told her--and I quote--"lolz," and also that other than being way premature on winning the division and the conference, if the two played LSU likely didn't have the pass rush to beat a team like Ohio State. So then this past Saturday I told her OSU was a pretty clear #1 in my book, and she said she's "not convinced."Tell you if tOSU makes CFB PO LSU/Burrow are the scary one IMO.Always liked Joe and him and Haskins shouldn't have been splitting garbage time behind a real nice guy who couldn't make an Arena League Roster.BTW if you still talk to BC - give her instructions to this place.She disappeared and so did Bama Buckeye.
Sandbagging and/or a healthy inferiority complex must be a Buckeye trait.
Chase Young is the best college defensive player since SuhHusker fans have noticed this and agree
Penn State, and what I think is a whole new level of a Michigan team, back to back. That’s going to get The Buckeyes. One or both of them.M has looked solid the last 6 qtrs and PSU keeps winning.So they could turn into marquee match ups,unlike previous seasons OSU doesn't have a plan "B" at QB so Fields can't run as aggressively as one would like
M has looked solid the last 6 qtrs and PSU keeps winning.So they could turn into marquee match ups,unlike previous seasons OSU doesn't have a plan "B" at QB so Fields can't run as aggressively as one would likeIn years past Penn State has had superstars on their team (Allen Robinson, Saquon Barkley, etc), but they have always had some deficiencies, too. This year Penn State doesn't really have any "superstars", but they don't have any deficiencies, either.
Oh how soon we forget. Being the next “ great team” is so fragile, and always ends badly.
When you play Wisconsin, Penn State, MSU- especially in their better seasons, sometimes Iowa, and always Michigan (if you are OSU), those are games that take a huge physical and emotional toll at the CFB level.
Penn State, and what I think is a whole new level of a Michigan team, back to back. That’s going to get The Buckeyes. One or both of them.
Michigan was never as bad as they looked and Ohio State is not close to unbeatable. It’s: what are you capable of? How well, or how poorly can you play?
Should make for a crazy stretch run.
Ohio State won't lose a game.wouldn't be so sure on that. I think they are obviously great. Perhaps even the best team in the country this year. This defense is the best defense that OSU has had since those 2014/2015 teams. The offense is lethal too, but they don't have a dominant back that can take over the game like they had back then with Zeke. Their backs are very good, not elite top 5 NFL draft pick good like Zeke was. I think Bama or Clemson or LSU could get 'em in the playoff.
Problem was in '16 JT was pedestrian but he was surrounded with Guys headed for Sunday.When joe came in the 4th qtr receivers didn't have to stop,lean forward or reach back to catch the ball.Hit them in stride arms extended like your seeing in Baton Rouge.Later on that year Clemson exposed this charade - stacked the line took away everything underneath and watched JT arm punt everything over 25 yds.The following spring Urbz handed the starting QB job to JT - half the fanbase was livid. Burrow had went 22-28 the season before but JT had Meyers Party Picture or something.Haskins was still green,then Burrow broke his thumb,but Haskins mounted a comeback vs Michigan that season and it was obvious JT shouldn't had the gig.Problem was that defensive line over 2 seasons sent 6 guys to the League - they were Bama ready.Urbz affection for JT clouded his judgement and hurt the chance for a program NC.But the dood could recruitI know, I know, he put up a junior season that looked modestly like Burrow’s statistically. it was the greatest disaster of quarterbacking since they started throwing the ball forward.
I don't think anybody is saying Ohio State won't lose a game. Only that they're the best team in the country.Ohio State PROBABLY won’t lose a game before the playoff, after that, who knows?
I won't say it's indisputable, your mileage may certainly vary, but it would take some slight of hand to find teams to put ahead of them in a power poll, which is all I mean when I say they're #1, or the best team, or whatever.
but really, most likely, they knock him around and we hear endlessly about the time Urbs benched a productive vet for a wet behind the ears frosh.Not really,Burrow threw for over 11,000 yds in HS you get to the next level you half to stretch the field.When you can't the apple polishing student getting woodshedded is what you get.Joe is a smart kid got his degree in 3 yrs we had the talent prolly/maybe would not have won but a thrower like joe makes it respectable.Look what happens at LSU when preparation meets opportunity - surrounded by athletes.Make you a sig bet - Burrow at least makes an Arena League Roster for one full season
I know, I know, he put up a junior season that looked modestly like Burrow’s statistically. it was the greatest disaster of quarterbacking since they started throwing the ball forward.
But what I’m saying is this, in our imaginations when Burrow started as a RS freshman or Haskins as a RS freshmen play like they did at their peak. So if you bench Barrett say after the NW game in 2016, and young Burrow struggles (not an unreasonable guess) and a national title quality team is wasted, we’d hear complaints about benching a guy who threw 17 TDs and four picks, plus run well for an unproven guy.
The nature of people is to assume the QB not playing is awesome and that our team’s staff will get that awesomeness out of them. But that’s using the most rosy glasses. Maybe RS freshman Burrow, Curtis Samuel and a bunch of very fringe NFL guys solve that super nasty Clemson defense, but really, most likely, they knock him around and we hear endlessly about the time Urbs benched a productive vet for a wet behind the ears frosh.
Ohio State PROBABLY won’t lose a game before the playoff, after that, who knows?Maybe Michigan appears to have woken up a tad.Can't wait but the season is going bye entirely to fast as it is
Ya or the one who can actually throw a spiral consistently/accurately over 25 yds
Fans' most popular player is the backup QB.
Chase Young is the best college defensive player since SuhHe certainly in the arguemenmt - both Bosa Bros are looking all that on Sundays - which is a little suprising to me
Enjoy it OSU fans. This is a special team, even by OSU standards.No schmoozing from youse
Ohio State PROBABLY won’t lose a game before the playoff, after that, who knows?Exactly. Here's how FPI rates them, obviously not counting CCG yet as it's not officially "on the schedule". Therefore I looked at Wisconsin's FPI (20.0, ranked 10th) vs the odds they gave for PSU (24.4, 5th) at home and the odds they gave for Michigan (18.5, 12th) on the road. I'm going to assume that Wisconsin on a neutral field is slightly more positive for OSU than PSU at home, and as Wisconsin is currently rated tougher than Michigan, going to assume that Wisconsin on a neutral field is just barely easier than Michigan at home.
Not really,Burrow threw for over 11,000 yds in HS you get to the next level you half to stretch the field.When you can't the apple polishing student getting woodshedded is what you get.Joe is a smart kid got his degree in 3 yrs we had the talent prolly/maybe would not have won but a thrower like joe makes it respectable.Look what happens at LSU when preparation meets opportunity - surrounded by athletes.Make you a sig bet - Burrow at least makes an Arena League Roster for one full seasonWait, a kid with an OSU offer threw for a lot of yards when he almost never played a school with more than 900 kids. WOW. That’s like 3,000 less than a guy who washed out at Clemson and 5,000 less than a guy Washington fans wanted benched. And they actually played at big schools against better schedules.
He certainly in the arguemenmt - both Bosa Bros are looking all that on Sundays - which is a little suprising to me
Ya or the one who can actually throw a spiral consistently/accurately over 25 ydsor the one that is not turning the ball over
and if he wasn’t, people would’ve moaned endlessly about getting too cute unless he turned around and won a title a title the next year. That defense was mean, and if your assumption is, RFr Burrow is gonna score a bunch on that ... it seems fanciful.How many times did you see Burrow play in 2016?You make the same argument you made for Cooper - OH he won(JT).While ignoring the embarrassment of riches that surrounded them.I don't expect to win titles every 2-3-4 yrs.But when you get there for gosh sakes pull out all the stops.Hell it worked just 2 years prior but maybe you weren't watching
or the one that is not turning the ball overThat actually wasn’t the problem in this Particular situation. If anything, the changeover probably would have increased the number of turnovers.
obviously it's tougher to have turnovers standing near the bench
How many times did you see Burrow play in 2016?You make the same argument you made for Cooper - OH he won.While ignoring the embarrassment of riches that surrounded them.I don't expect to win titles every 2-3-4 yrs.But when you get there for gosh sakes pull out all the stops.Hell it worked just 2 years prior but maybe you weren't watchingI will admit, I didn’t watch them play all that much that season. You didn’t either. One of the most successful offense of coaches of all time did. But we have decided his opinion isn’t super valid. But we do this thing in sports where what we don’t see is assumed to be better than what we don’t.
I will admit, I didn’t watch them play all that much that season. You didn’t either.Put that thing out you'll burn you fingers.Urban kept Zack Smith around for years.He's more than capable of saying/doing dumb shit.Meyer won an NC with a QB that he neither recruited or started.Urbs made an assinine assertion at media days that led to him being suspended and erasing phone/personnel messages.Nick Saban pulled his QB(in a NCG no less)when he wasn't getting it done.Urbz never thought of it when JT was getting his brakes beat off.What did Einstein say “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
(tell me of the riches. One pretty decent NFL receiver, a bunch of practice squad guys, an embarrassment indeed)Do some home work this from the 2019 NFL Combine all three(Campbell,Dixon,McClaurin) played with JT in '16 & '17.And they didn't even start but saw snaps.Ya practice squad,would you like the 2016-17 Buckeye Rosters also
It's not frequent that you have two first round draft picks as backup QBs
Fans' most popular player is the backup QB.
Wow, and I thought the JT Barrett bashing was over....but here we go again.I think us OSU fans see what this offense is capable of with a QB that can throw a ball down field accurately more than 15 yds. JT was a great player, but was limited in his ability to consistently hit receivers accurately and in stride. He compiled a lot of yards in the air, but generally against lesser competition. Sure he had some games where he threw very well and looked great. But they were over shadowed by a lot of games where he was missing wide open receivers 20-30 yds downfield consistently.
The guy had the #1 passer rating in the history of the B10...AND ran for 3000+ yards!!!!!!!!! Holy hell, people! Take LSU's OC away, and no, Joe Burrow isn't a Heisman contender, sorry. OSU fans wanted him in over Barrett? Yeah, the backup QB is the most popular guy on the team - he can fix all the team's ills. Yawn.
Unbelievable.
What drives OSU fans nuts is seeing Burrow now at LSU showing that he was capable of both. I know that I was saying this a couple of years ago. I thought he ran well enough to be successful in Meyer's system, but also threw the ball well enough to take the top off the defense and get the safeties out of the box. But Meyer was loyal to JT to a fault.This,so much this^^^^^^^^,NOB - you get a Yuengling.Any way just watched the ND/UM contest on BTN last nite.Booger appears to be coming around.PSU/UM will be all that if PSU can get by the Goophs
I know this is not quantifiable, but I feel that if Fields had transferred in while JT was there and Meyer was still the HC, Fields would be warming the bench as Meyer would have stubbornly stayed with JT come hell or high water. Of all the great things Meyer did at and for OSU, he limited himself with his blind loyalty to certain players and coaches.
This,so much this^^^^^^^^,NOB - you get a YuenglingLeave our PA beer alone.
The sudden turnaround in the defense this year is evidence of that. Schiano while probably a very good coach, was stubbornly unwilling to change his defensive philosophy in order to correct problems with the Defense. A good head coach would have addressed this early on, but Meyer did not do much to force Shciano to change things up due to his loyalty. Day comes in, fires the entire Def staff (save Larry Johnson) and look at the results with essentially the same players.Very good point like BO said The Team,The Team,The Team.Can't stand pat you're paid big bucks make adjustments big ones if neccessary.The on going Zach Smith debacle is point in case how some things were afoul right under his nose.Perhaps he got complacent/uninspired after the 2014 season.But Lordy the man could recruit.I'm Certain he could sell Frostys to an Eskimo
Do some home work this from the 2019 NFL Combine all three(Campbell,Dixon,McClaurin) played with JT in '16 & '17.And they didn't even start but saw snaps.Ya practice squad,would you like the 2016-17 Buckeye Rosters alsoSo the starters weren't that good, but the kids playing less were. Sounds like OSU needed to start an all-underclassman offense to really have an attack that could compete in the playoff.
INDIANAPOLIS -- Thirty-seven receivers ran the 40 at the NFL Combine on Saturday.
Ohio State receivers took first, fifth and eighth.
As one program, the Buckeyes went stride for stride with the SEC, whose fastest receivers clocked in third, third and sixth.
Parris Campbell ran 4.31, Terry McLaurin 4.35 and Johnnie Dixon 4.41.
The best of the SEC went 4.33, 4.33, 4.39.
The 40 at the combine is a delight and a fun dash for bragging rights. Speed matters and teams care and money can be made, but the stopwatch doesn’t assure anything about the draft or their NFL careers. Former Buckeye Michael Thomas ran 4.57 at the combine three years ago. Now he might be the best receiver in the NFL.
Leave our PA beer alone.Ya know I've been drinking it for about two decades but was only availible in Ohio about 7-8 yrs ago.Fortunately a brother,neighbor and co-worker were making monthly runs back/forth.I watched a segment when the History Chanel was one that they did on brewing.Bud/Miller/Coors had gotten so big in the early-mid '70's brewers like Yuengling almost went out of business.Dick Yuengling had said after WWII when 16 million GIs came home beer flew off of the shelves.Even though most of it was watered down from grain rationing.So Miller/Bud/Schlitz/Coors decided why waste money on more grain when the stuff was selling great.The Yuenglings were one of the respectable Brewers that went back to pre war,pre prohibition brewing.Because of ace advertising the Macros sales took off while much better stuff was left on the shelves.That was the case with many small brewers that either got bought out or closed their doors.For years went we went to Canada their beers where so much better and sought after.The Craft brewers changed all that and may they be praised,but for the money Yuengling's lineup is my go to
There was a time it was the dominate beer at PSU tailgates or PSU bars. It was a PSU tradition.
Nowadays Yuengling's popularity here is WAY down for political reasons.
So the starters weren't that good, but the kids playing less were. Sounds like OSU needed to start an all-underclassman offense to really have an attack that could compete in the playoff.No not at all they got plenty of playing time.Noah Brown,Curtis Samuel(who were great collegiate receivers)Cory Smith also.Before that JT had Devin Smith who was fantastic and Michael Thomas.That's why Urbz coined it the "Spread".Read NOBs take he's right Nick Saban would have pulled JT who was no where as good as Jalen Hurts long time ago.Again adjustments were not being made,can't help that if you can't see it.Again a QB rotation prolly would have worked liked Urbs did in Fla
And if we get to count the young pups, I'm confused about something with Campbell and McLaurin. There were top-3 round draft picks, but they stayed all the way through senior seasons. Stayed through their fifth-year senior seasons in fact. I'm impressed such bounties of talent passed up the draft twice. As we've said, people don't "develop" or whatever we might call it. The spring forth, fully formed.
I retract it all, in 2016, he was just throwing to studs. The riches in the WR room were near as good as the riches in the QB room.
We'll start at the top. Do you feel RS freshman Burrow was better than RS junior Burrow? Simple question, but it stay a lot about setting the table.
What drives OSU fans nuts is seeing Burrow now at LSU showing that he was capable of both. I know that I was saying this a couple of years ago. I thought he ran well enough to be successful in Meyer's system, but also threw the ball well enough to take the top off the defense and get the safeties out of the box. But Meyer was loyal to JT to a fault.
I know this is not quantifiable, but I feel that if Fields had transferred in while JT was there and Meyer was still the HC, Fields would be warming the bench as Meyer would have stubbornly stayed with JT come hell or high water. Of all the great things Meyer did at and for OSU, he limited himself with his blind loyalty to certain players and coaches.
The sudden turnaround in the defense this year is evidence of that. Schiano while probably a very good coach, was stubbornly unwilling to change his defensive philosophy in order to correct problems with the Defense. A good head coach would have addressed this early on, but Meyer did not do much to force Shciano to change things up due to his loyalty. Day comes in, fires the entire Def staff (save Larry Johnson) and look at the results with essentially the same players.
We'll start at the top. Do you feel RS freshman Burrow was better than RS junior Burrow? Simple question, but it stay a lot about setting the table.Simple question do you believe true FR QB Tua Tagovailoa was better than Jalen Hurts at half time of a National Championship Game?Nothing ventured - nothing gained,we'll never know because Urbz couldn't/wouldn't pull the trigger,Saban did - that is why he is the Best.Admit it you had no idea who Tua Tagovailoa was - it's OK neither did I,but sometimes you have have to go to the bull pen when the obvious is evident
No not at all they got plenty of playing time.Noah Brown,Curtis Samuel(who were great collegiate receivers)Cory Smith also.Before that JT had Devin Smith who was fantastic and Michael Thomas.That's why Urbz coined it the "Spread".Read NOBs take he's right Nick Saban would have pulled JT who was no where as good as Jalen Hurts long time ago.Again adjustments were not being made,can't help that if you can't see it.Again a QB rotation prolly would have worked liked Urbs did in FlaWait, we can’t be invoking the time he had Smith and Thomas. That would tell us that a red shirt freshman JT who wasn’t supposed to start the second in the country and passer rating. And if that was the case, it would imply players could change in the course of their careers, which might just mean senior Burrow tells us not much about redshirt freshman burrow. And if that’s the case, this is all lamenting conjecture.
Wow, and I thought the JT Barrett bashing was over....but here we go again.
The guy had the #1 passer rating in the history of the B10...AND ran for 3000+ yards!!!!!!!!! Holy hell, people! Take LSU's OC away, and no, Joe Burrow isn't a Heisman contender, sorry. OSU fans wanted him in over Barrett? Yeah, the backup QB is the most popular guy on the team - he can fix all the team's ills. Yawn.
Unbelievable.
Nowadays Yuengling's popularity here is WAY down for political reasons.Wait, what? I know nothing of this, just curious?
Beer and politics shouldn't be mixedYeah... Just look at Founder's.
Wait, what? I know nothing of this, just curious?The owner publicly came out and supported Trump. Penn State fans are college educated and the big drinkers are millennials. Neither is exactly a hot demographic for Trump supporters.
Moving on to the non-quantifible part. I think this is interesting because it's not at all unique to Urbs. Fans across the country assume their coach loves their not great QB to a fault. It's pretty common. At a point, we must ask, are all these coaches watching hours of practice films and misjudging all of it (maybe), or are fans by and large built to believe what they've hardly seen is better than what they often see? This is not to say it's 100 percent one way or the other, only that this common feeling might be endemic in the kind of optimism we see in ourselves.Agreed... We were seeing it just this year with Sindelar at Purdue, especially after Brohm seemed to prefer Sindelar to Blough two years in a row, only to see Blough take the reins strongly when he got the starter role.
We'll start at the top. Do you feel RS freshman Burrow was better than RS junior Burrow? Simple question, but it stay a lot about setting the table.I'm not saying that Meyer was right or wrong. All I am saying that as fans that only get to see what is presented to us during games (and the spring scrimmage), it is frustrating to have watched JT arm punt throws for 3 1/2 years to wide open receivers and then see Burrow show up at LSU and put himself in Heisman contention. And it seems to all go back to Meyer's loyalty to certain players and coaches.
Moving on to the non-quantifible part. I think this is interesting because it's not at all unique to Urbs. Fans across the country assume their coach loves their not great QB to a fault. It's pretty common. At a point, we must ask, are all these coaches watching hours of practice films and misjudging all of it (maybe), or are fans by and large built to believe what they've hardly seen is better than what they often see? This is not to say it's 100 percent one way or the other, only that this common feeling might be endemic in the kind of optimism we see in ourselves.
The Schiano thing speaks to another sort of splintered perspective. You're saying the coach would've addressed it early on. I assume you mean early last season, maybe after the suspension? Because here's the thing. You know who built the two best OSU defenses in the Urbs era? That'd be Schiano. His first two were better than Ash's, notably better. Should he have been fired after doing that back-to-back years? Or are we prisoners of rather emotional moments.
(Also worth noting, the new OSU DC was demoted by Michigan, basically passed over twice, and now has this. Maybe it's just the odd nature of CFB at play?)
The larger point is this, it's one of entitlement. OSU fans assume these are 15-0 teams and it is incumbent upon the coaches not to mismanage them down to only playoff teams. There is no thought that it's hard to be that good, that consistently contending, that there's an easy fix if only some young player were handed the job without putting in the work. We ignore the oddity of the sport, the fact almost no one goes undefeated and only one team wins each season. Perhaps the earlier part is how sports should be and really is, but I remain skeptical.
The owner publicly came out and supported Trump. Penn State fans are college educated and the big drinkers are millennials. Neither is exactly a hot demographic for Trump supporters.hah, I'm not drinking crappy bear because someone supports one politician or another
The Schiano thing speaks to another sort of splintered perspective. You're saying the coach would've addressed it early on. I assume you mean early last season, maybe after the suspension? Because here's the thing. You know who built the two best OSU defenses in the Urbs era? That'd be Schiano. His first two were better than Ash's, notably better. Should he have been fired after doing that back-to-back years? Or are we prisoners of rather emotional moments.As to the Schiano thing, I was using this as an example of Meyer's loyalty. Last season when the defense was giving up chunk plays to EVERY TEAM THEY PLAYED (even Oregon St), there should have been a "Come to Jesus" moment between Meyer and Schiano. (The first thing I would have done is told him that he cannot play exclusive man to man coverage as half the defense was playing with their backs to the ball).
(Also worth noting, the new OSU DC was demoted by Michigan, basically passed over twice, and now has this. Maybe it's just the odd nature of CFB at play?)
The larger point is this, it's one of entitlement. OSU fans assume these are 15-0 teams and it is incumbent upon the coaches not to mismanage them down to only playoff teams. There is no thought that it's hard to be that good, that consistently contending, that there's an easy fix if only some young player were handed the job without putting in the work. We ignore the oddity of the sport, the fact almost no one goes undefeated and only one team wins each season. Perhaps the earlier part is how sports should be and really is, but I remain skeptical.
The owner publicly came out and supported Trump. Penn State fans are college educated and the big drinkers are millennials. Neither is exactly a hot demographic for Trump supporters.
It's not frequent that you have two first round draft picks as backup QBsCardale Jones was a first round draft pick in name only. How's that working out?
Cardale Jones was a first round draft pick in name only. How's that working out?Amen.
Oh, and NFLness has little to do with college greatness. Barrett had an all-time great career, and maybe when he's 50-60 years old, he'll get his due. But the way he's treated by OSU people is sad.
Cardale Jones was a first round draft pick in name only. How's that working out?You always do this. One poster says something, then you attribute it to all OSU fans or all Big Ten fans. Asinine.
Oh, and NFLness has little to do with college greatness. Barrett had an all-time great career, and maybe when he's 50-60 years old, he'll get his due. But the way he's treated by OSU people is sad.
You always do this. One poster says something, then you attribute it to all OSU fans or all Big Ten fans. Asinine.
Cardale Jones was a first round draft pick in name only. How's that working out?Well, I have never said that I or other OSU fans didn't appreciate his accomplishments. But the reality was that he was not a very good down field passer. Sure he was part of a lot of wins by OSU and most fans I know are happy about that. But it does not mean there were not points left on the field due to his deficiencies.
Oh, and NFLness has little to do with college greatness. Barrett had an all-time great career, and maybe when he's 50-60 years old, he'll get his due. But the way he's treated by OSU people is sad.
The Schiano thing speaks to another sort of splintered perspective. You're saying the coach would've addressed it early on. I assume you mean early last season, maybe after the suspension? Because here's the thing. You know who built the two best OSU defenses in the Urbs era? That'd be Schiano. His first two were better than Ash's, notably better. Should he have been fired after doing that back-to-back years? Or are we prisoners of rather emotional moments.
As to the Schiano thing, I was using this as an example of Meyer's loyalty. Last season when the defense was giving up chunk plays to EVERY TEAM THEY PLAYED (even Oregon St), there should have been a "Come to Jesus" moment between Meyer and Schiano. (The first thing I would have done is told him that he cannot play exclusive man to man coverage as half the defense was playing with their backs to the ball).Is the issue that Schiano was too wedded to scheme, whether he had the talent for that scheme or not?
Did that happen? I don't know, but I do know that things never got better. I truly believe that Meyer gave Schiano too much freedom to leave it alone and hope it got better. I also believe that had Meyer come back this year, Schiano would have been welcomed back with open arms.
I think many college QBs have been "fairly" considered to be great without a championship. P. Manning is one of course. Mayfield was considered to be a great college QB by most, I think. And some championship winning QBs are largely forgotten, like whoever it was who replaced Manning when they did win an NC.Apparently, the Buckeyes value trophies like Hukser fans
Make a list of your top ten or so college QBs and check how many won an NC.
Is the issue that Schiano was too wedded to scheme, whether he had the talent for that scheme or not?This runs deeper than simply placing the blame for the defensive failures strictly on Shciano. The other defensive coaches share in some of the blame also, such as Alex Grinch. But I believe that is was Schiano's scheme to stay in man to man coverage despite the big plays there were giving up.
For example, if he had an aggressive attacking defense that relied on players being able to perform in straight man coverage, and he HAD players that were capable of doing that, he could have the two best defenses in the Meyer era. And then if he stuck to that scheme despite the fact that his players weren't capable of holding up in straight man coverage, all of a sudden the exact same defense would lead to big chunk plays.
You have to recruit to fit your scheme, or you have to scheme to fit what you've recruited. It sounds like maybe he failed to find the right pieces for his scheme but never adjusted.
OSU put a CB into the 1st round and a safety into the 2nd round of the 2016 draft. They then put two CBs and one safety into the first round of the 2017 draft.
Since, 1 first round CB into the 2018 draft, and one 4th-round CB into the 2019 draft.
Maybe they just didn't have the horses for the scheme in the 2018 season, and Schiano never did anything to adjust?
QBs are judged by championshipsTruth,Tebow or Leak didn't do shyt in the League but they worked out fine at the level we care about
unfairly, but that's the deal
Cardale Jones was a first round draft pick in name only. How's that working out?
Oh, and NFLness has little to do with college greatness. Barrett had an all-time great career, and maybe when he's 50-60 years old, he'll get his due. But the way he's treated by OSU people is sad.
Is the issue that Schiano was too wedded to scheme, whether he had the talent for that scheme or not?Yup have to adjust with what you have.Pretty simple playing to the strengths instead of pounding a square peg into a round whole
Maybe they just didn't have the horses for the scheme in the 2018 season, and Schiano never did anything to adjust?
The owner publicly came out and supported Trump. Penn State fans are college educated and the big drinkers are millennials. Neither is exactly a hot demographic for Trump supporters.That's funny because Trump doesn't drink - sure acts like it some times.Him and Zack Smith should tweet each other
As for the Entitlement aspect, maybe OSU fans do feel that way. But when you break down last season for what it was, it becomes quite apparent that the coaching staff let this team down. Sure they went 13-1 last year, but that defensive performance kept them out of the playoffs. And Almost all of the same players are back this year. A defense that was ranking outside the Top 50 in the country, is now arguably one of the best in the country. THAT is on the coaches last year.NOB bringing his A game.Ya BS on the entitlement thing.I was a wee little lad when the '68/69 Buckeyes won the whole thing.Had to wait 34 yrs for the next.Being a Browns/Indians fans I've never witnessed a Trophy raising.But damn when you get the chance pull out all the stops - it is never certain you get back.Saban realized that 2 yrs back at half time of a National Championship Game do what's good for the Program not a player
Since Fro is a Florida fan, that automatically means that he must hate Urban Meyer. Talk about ungrateful, look in the mirror.
Wait, we can’t be invoking the time he had Smith and Thomas.You invoked that you thought JT was a record setter,I'm pointing out the NFL talent that surrounded him his 4 seasons of play.It's easy to be a saint when some one else is setting the stage for your miracles.We had a known quality in a decent running QB who couldn't go over the top.Yet there were 2 guys who could stretch the field behind him.Saban took the chance Urbz didn't - pretty simple stuff.These were being discussed on the Buckeye Boards ad nauseam during the 2016 season
Since Fro is a Florida fan, that automatically means that he must hate Urban Meyer. Talk about ungrateful, look in the mirror.Hey-Hey-hey the voice of truth and reason - just ask him.Meyer platooned Leak/Tebow could have done the same with JT and or Burrow/Haskins.Man crush or party picture kept him from doing so even after 2016
You always do this. One poster says something, then you attribute it to all OSU fans or all Big Ten fans. Asinine.Sigh.
I'm not saying that Meyer was right or wrong. All I am saying that as fans that only get to see what is presented to us during games (and the spring scrimmage), it is frustrating to have watched JT arm punt throws for 3 1/2 years to wide open receivers and then see Burrow show up at LSU and put himself in Heisman contention. And it seems to all go back to Meyer's loyalty to certain players and coaches.So I'll start with the first graph and two things.
But I admit, it is hard to argue with the success that Meyer had. And you are correct, I was not at practice or the team meetings and have no idea what each of these players looked like outside of game days.
But I also know that Meyer is truly sold on the running aspect of the QB position almost at the expense of being a capable passer. And what is really frustrating is seeing that Burrow is capable of doing both rather effectively. He is not quite the runner that JT was, but is a much better runner than Haskins was. Conversely, Haskins probably threw a better ball than Burrow, but Burrow definitely threw the ball far better on his worst day than JT did on his best. And there are a few games (Iowa and Oklahoma come to mind) where if JT could have hit some downfield throws, the running game would have opened up quite a bit.
As to the Schiano thing, I was using this as an example of Meyer's loyalty. Last season when the defense was giving up chunk plays to EVERY TEAM THEY PLAYED (even Oregon St), there should have been a "Come to Jesus" moment between Meyer and Schiano. (The first thing I would have done is told him that he cannot play exclusive man to man coverage as half the defense was playing with their backs to the ball).The top boldd is the center assumption. That there is a way, with Urbs calling over his coach and yelling at him or having a big meeting that thing would be magically fixed. And I just don't know if that's how the world works. I just think it's a little idealistic to say mid-season, we change everything and it suddenly gets better. The part about him coming back is likewise conjecture. Urbs fired his first DC after two years IIRC.
Did that happen? I don't know, but I do know that things never got better. I truly believe that Meyer gave Schiano too much freedom to leave it alone and hope it got better. I also believe that had Meyer come back this year, Schiano would have been welcomed back with open arms.
As for the Entitlement aspect, maybe OSU fans do feel that way. But when you break down last season for what it was, it becomes quite apparent that the coaching staff let this team down. Sure they went 13-1 last year, but that defensive performance kept them out of the playoffs. And Almost all of the same players are back this year. A defense that was ranking outside the Top 50 in the country, is now arguably one of the best in the country. THAT is on the coaches last year.
And sure we expect our team to go undefeated every year. When they recruit the way they have, why shouldn't we? But there is a difference between matching up to a team with close to equal talent and just having a bad game and getting blown off the field by a clearly inferior team. And when the reason for that had been apparent all season long and the HC does nothing about it, you bet it frustrates the fans.
You invoked that you thought JT was a record setter,I'm pointing out the NFL talent that surrounded him his 4 seasons of play.It's easy to be a saint when some one else is setting the stage for your miracles.We had a known quality in a decent running QB who couldn't go over the top.Yet there were 2 guys who could stretch the field behind him.Saban took the chance Urbz didn't - pretty simple stuff.These were being discussed on the Buckeye Boards ad nauseam during the 2016 seasonExhibit A: Entitlement.
Since Fro is a Florida fan, that automatically means that he must hate Urban Meyer. Talk about ungrateful, look in the mirror.I think this a a joke that's going over my head. I wen't halfway to responding to it and don't want to get sucked in.
Throwing to guys who had incredible YAC even you propped up enough could put up numbers.Urban split QB duties with Leak/Tebow but wouldn't with a guy who was throwing 25 yd wounded ducks.JT isn't even in the top 25 for a single season ydg.His numbers were padded over 4 yrs,ya know the League ready guys are leaving after 1 or 2.Again should have been platooned,nice guy no field general.Don't take my word for it see where the phenoms name isThat list has caused me to lose faith in passing yardage as a useful number.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/big-ten/leaders/pass-yds-player-season.html (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/big-ten/leaders/pass-yds-player-season.html)
So I'll start with the first graph and two things.I must not be conveying my thoughts very well. Yes Barrett had an amazing career at tOSU. He put up incredible numbers and won a lot of games I will not argue that and in fact am very appreciative for it.
Part of CFB is that kind of angst. You watch a guy all the time, you learn his limits. You also tend to let that command your perspective. If you'd like to tell me there were 1 3/4 years of laments about arm punting, that I'll buy. But he was second in the county in passer rating as a freshman, setting that team for an actual title, and the next year OSU fans spent a chunk of the year asking for him over Jones. Heck, Barrett had four TD passes in that 2016 win over Oklahoma and had them looking good though at least four games (I think sentiment started to turn in the latter half of that season).
It's also worth noting, Burrow didn't "show up at LSU and put himself in Heisman contention." He showed up at LSU and was the 12th rated passer in the SEC. As a fourth-year junior. This points to another interesting happening. We see our teams all the time. Our nits bother us. What happens to other players, former players, we only really see the highs and lows. In this case, more this year than last year.
I empathize with your last graph. I really do. Because we spend a lot of time with someone and their flaws become all we see. If Barrett had not gone 23-4 with a playoff appearance and Big Ten title, he'd actually be remembered more fondly. But it points to another factor. If Burrow had been given three-plus years or runway, there's a very real chance OSU fans end up annoyed by one flaw he has or another. Perhaps he's a stud three years running who gets better and better. More likely there are ups and downs, and he ends up looking less shiny compared to 2015 Barrett. Perspective is weird that way.
Exhibit A: Entitlement.What Saban did this year is irrelevant to this discussion.This has nothing to do with entitlement.Did you actually read any of the previous explanations or were you too tired reaching for another beer?Again these arguments were raging 3 years ago on Buckeye Boards.I can tell you weren't really dialed into the situation.Why did Saban pull Jalen Hurts - and insert a true freshman in Tua under very smiliar circumstances a year later?The Coach had to at least try to adapt/adjust to the dilemma of being behind with a running QB - which he did.
When someone explains that being very successful is easy and that a very good college player is actually just decent, that's majestic entitlement. It's a natural part of college fandom, but shoot, I thought us youngin's were the one that didn't respect hard work, not the old heads.
(Also, on that Saban thing. He had this year's top rated passer in the country who may well have saved his team's playoff spot nailed to the bench as an injured Tua tossed two first-half picks)
It's odd that a HC great enough to turn a glorified FB into an all-time great QB at Florida and took such a limited passing talent like Barrett to put up the numbers he did was so inept at picking a QB. UM's offense was predicated on having a running threat at QB...so that's why he played Barrett. Simple. I don't understand finding fault in that.It's finding fault with not going with other options when plan 'A" isn't working.At Florida you saw this with Leak/Tebow maybe he got complacent in C-Bus.When Saban arrived in T-Town he had the remedy for Urban's offense - a in your face Belichick/Bears like defense.And a grind it out NFL style offense,Oh and he could recruit also.IMO Bama beating Meyers Gators in'09 & '10 hastened UFM's departure.Urbans meteoric rise at BG/Utah/Fla didn't prepare him for adversity or St Nicks staunch defenses
The owner publicly came out and supported Trump. Penn State fans are college educated and the big drinkers are millennials. Neither is exactly a hot demographic for Trump supporters.I'm somewhat surprised by this for two reasons:
Exactly,had he not gotten hurt against UM in'17 same thing.JT put us in a whole,Haskins got us out and then some.People who follow a team weekly see and remember the subtle aspects or variations.What JT did he did good,what he couldn't do was detrimental to the team vs stiff competition
My point is that while he was very good, he was also somewhat limited in how far he could really take the offense. I would even speculate that had he NOT gotten injured in the last reg season game in 2014, tOSU may not have steamrolled Wisconsin and gotten into the playoffs. And had they managed to get in, the would have been steamrolled by Bama. Not because JT was not a good player but because he could not pop the top off the defense the way the Jones did. Bama would have just loaded the box and dared JT to throw it downfield. He may have completed a couple here or there, but most likely would have thrown a few picks.
With all of that said, the issue was that Barrett played to the best of his ability and had some great wins and awesome moments. I am very grateful that he was the QB and happy with the results. But his throwing ability along with UM's insistence that HIS system was the only way to go, possibly cost them even greater success. And even with that, he had another QB later that could both run and throw the ball downfield but never gave him an honest opportunity to demonstrate it. Had he given Burrows that opportunity, they may have achieved even more. But who knows.
don't confuse taste and preferences for an opportunity to put out the virtue signal. There are people that would claim to stop eating black licorice if Twizzlers' owners came out in favor of DJT or some other protest worthy cause.
Second, I thought Millennials didn't drink that much beer. Article (https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomaspellechia/2017/10/27/millennials-are-blamed-for-falling-beer-sales-in-the-u-s/#55b1eab84a78).
I've always liked Yuengling. Until a few years ago I couldn't get it in Ohio so it was something of a special treat that I would get once in a while when I went to PA.
And you counter with passing yardage? :57:Um try to stay on point.AGAIN Barret isn't in the top 25 in single season stats in the BIG.Why is that?The other guys have NFL contracts.Because for you my misguided correspondent JT padded stats surrounded by NFL talent vs overmatched opponents the team won inspite of him.Next thing you'll tell the congregation that he's better than Haskins and or Burrow who fans were inquiring about.That you in blissful ignorance miss.OBVIOUSLY those two deserved to be at least platooned.
Miraculous that such a limited QB could be the ALL TIME B10 leader in TD passes and passer rating (and only 15th in attempts) AND being a top-3 ALL TIME rushing QB in B10 history....same guy, one career.
But he was limited. He wasn't that good. Only played because of loyalty. I guess he was just lucky...on 1,867 plays.
I guess you can see why I'm confused what's allowed around here and what's not.Careful the way some of them comprehend the written word they'd pee in your coffee
Also, apparently I'm a "global moderator." What exactly does that mean? Does that mean there are peons here who have to get my coffee?
I'm somewhat surprised by this for two reasons:I'd venture this is more due to other demographics favoring CFB. First, the "power" teams are often located in red states. You've got the South, you've got the upper Midwest (rust belt that was formerly red although is more purple these days), and you've got the central swath from Nebraska down to Texas.
First, my hunch, and this article backs it up (https://issuu.com/nationalmedia/docs/nmrppsportspolitics), is that CFB fans are right-of-center. There is a graph on page four that shows various sports fanbases by their Republican/Democrat leaning and their typical turnout:
I guess you can see why I'm confused what's allowed around here and what's not.I do think we've been walking a fine line around here.
Also, apparently I'm a "global moderator." What exactly does that mean? Does that mean there are peons here who have to get my coffee?
So here's some reality for OSU, and a couple others.Everyone knows real BBQ is in Texas and DB U is the U of Texas-Austin
I think it was back around 2013 or so, LSU and Florida players took to twitter to start arguing about who is DBU, a pointless yet ongoing spat. Recently I've seen OSU enter the fray (which is kinda rude, nobody invited you to our BBQ). Not OSU players, mind you....the actual school started putting stuff out comparing selective numbers. They also think they're DBU.
The real question is: why isn't Alabama ever included in that discussion? Those guys have had a number of very impressive DBs over the last several years, particularly safeties. They routinely field one of the most productive and talented secondaries, and they're as high a profile team as it gets. I'm surprised you don't hear more about them....especially from them. I mean, claiming titles they want to be true is kind of their thing.
Everyone knows real BBQ is in Texas and DB U is the U of Texas-AustinOld,bitter,drunken fearless justa stirrin' up the pot
Everyone knows real BBQ is in Texas and DB U is the U of Texas-Austin
Don't get me started on wine ratings.Wash your feet stomp the damn grapes and get it out here
I'd venture this is more due to other demographics favoring CFB. First, the "power" teams are often located in red states. You've got the South, you've got the upper Midwest (rust belt that was formerly red although is more purple these days), and you've got the central swath from Nebraska down to Texas.I think this is a good point that I hadn't really thought about. I suppose that if you checked certain teams you would find a more leftward skew among their fans. Ie, BC fans, to the extent that they exist are probably generally from the greater Boston Metro area and they are probably pretty left leaning compared to CFB fans in general.
Out here on the Left coast, and in the mid-Atlantic to Northeast states, college football is not nearly as popular.
Couple that with the fact that college football fandom is more rural in general, whereas pro sports and the NFL are more aligned with big metro areas, and rural areas skew more to the right. Boston is all about the Pats, not BC. NYC is all about the Giants and Jets, not Rutger and Syracuse. DC is about the Redskins, not about UMD. Chicago is about the Bears, not the Wildcats. LA is a mess in general, but it's a Rams town now. SF is about the 49ers, and doesn't care about Stanford all that much. And while Seattle has UDub local, it's still all about the Seahawks. So the biggest metro areas that would skew things blue are more interested in the local NFL teams than the local-ish NCAA teams.
So if the biggest CFB programs and fan bases just tend to geographically align with the reddest [rural] parts of the reddest states, it makes perfect sense that CFB fandom would skew to the right.
I do think we've been walking a fine line around here.That is my theory. We definitely don't want this to become a political debate forum but at least in my opinion, discussing what happened in a more academic way should be fine.
For me, and I said this last week, there are topics that are politics-adjacent that are interesting to delve into but they're not really "political debate". However, there are certain political "third rail" issues--or perhaps discussion specifically about certain politicians--that can quickly destroy dialogue and turn it ugly.
A more academic discussion about why certain sports may skew certain directions politically is a different thing than having a political debate...
I'm still in an 0-fer in the ATL on the Q. Fox Bros. had some good brisket though. They are two bros, from Texas, so there is that.was the band solid?
We went back to Fat Matt's again. It was packed, and the Q was just so-so IMHO. The slaw was pretty bad in fact.
They did have a blues band playing.
I may have to just get by on the McRib.
I strongly disagree with your parenthetical that I bolded. Going W->E through the Great Lakes states:You'd probably know more on this than I do, Medina, but I would guess that the Midwest in general has gotten less blue as the strength and numbers of big labor have declined.
- Minnesota barely voted for Clinton over Trump. This was previously a Democratic stronghold. It was the only state to vote for Mondale over Reagan in 1984 and hasn't voted for a Republican for President since Nixon's landslide in 1972. Even then, Nixon won the national popular vote 61-38 and carried 49 states but he only won Minnesota 52-46 so Minnesota was ~8% more Democratic than the US as a whole. The popular vote in the 2016 election Minnesota was slightly more Republican than the national popular vote. Minnesota was formerly deep blue and is possibly trending purple.
- Wisconsin went red in 2016, for the first time since 1984. There again, in 1984 Reagan won the national popular vote by about 18% but he only won Wisconsin by about 9%. Wisconsin is a formerly deep blue state possibly trending purple.
- Illinois is and remains deep blue, no trend either way.
- Indiana is a solidly red state in any race in which it matters. Obama did carry the Hoosier State in 2008 but only barely despite winning the national popular vote by 7%. Prior to that the last Democrat to carry Indiana was Lyndon Johnson in 1964. Note that 2008 and 1964 were both Democratic landslides. This is the inverse of MN/WI where the last time (prior to 2016 in WI's case) that a Republican won there it was in a national Republican landslide (1972 and 1984).
- Michigan went red in 2016, for the first time since 1988. Like Minnesota and Wisconsin this is a formerly deep blue state that is possibly trending purple.
- Ohio (this is the one I know the most about) has voted for every winning Presidential candidate for the last 50+ years. The last candidate to win without Ohio was Kennedy in 1960. However, Ohio has been trending more red. In 2016 the state went Republican by ~8% while the national popular vote was 10% to the left of that.
- Pennsylvania went red in 2016 for the first time since 1988. Like MN, WI, and MI this is a formerly deep blue state that is possibly trending purple.
Note that with MN, WI, MI, and PA I stated that they are "possibly trending purple". All of them were more Republican than the national vote in the 2016 election but obviously one election does not make a trend and if you look at results from the last few elections (not who won, but how the vote compared to the national vote) it is a mixed bag. That said, I see nothing to support your assertion of formerly red and trending purple.
Back to Penn State, I'm not sure how that would apply. PA was formerly pretty solidly blue but it was trending more purplish even before 2016 and, of course, went red in 2016 for the first time since 1988. It probably depends largely on where the PSU fans in question are from. Looking at the 2016 PA election map there is a blue county in Western PA (Pittsburg), one in central PA (I think PSU), one a little SE of that (?) then a bunch around Philly and along the NJ border. The rest of the state ranges from light red to dark red. That is my theory. We definitely don't want this to become a political debate forum but at least in my opinion, discussing what happened in a more academic way should be fine.
What Saban did this year is irrelevant to this discussion.This has nothing to do with entitlement.Did you actually read any of the previous explanations or were you too tired reaching for another beer?Again these arguments were raging 3 years ago on Buckeye Boards.I can tell you weren't really dialed into the situation.Why did Saban pull Jalen Hurts - and insert a true freshman in Tua under very smiliar circumstances a year later?The Coach had to at least try to adapt/adjust to the dilemma of being behind with a running QB - which he did.Let’s start from the top.
There is never,ever a guarantee to get back there.Urbs stood pat the following season after he promised sweeping changes to the media/fans in the wake of the epic beatdown(he literally lied).Those writers/fans that thought it prudent Burrow/Haskins should at least see some snaps were right in retrospect.Because of obvious lapses in throwing the ball that Burrow/Haskins could have provided.And later obviously demonstrated which both you and Urbz can't see or won't acknowledge.But Urbz was paid to give the program a punchers chance - not stand pat on a pet project.
Urbz and Bill Clinton could both look right into a camera and tell whoppers.His recruiting and understanding of quick strike offenses are 1st rate.His statements to the media and personnel decisions regarding coaches and players were many times suspect.
So Nubbz commented on this and I wanted to answer, but this part is kinda the point, so this answers both this and his comment.
My point is that while he was very good, he was also somewhat limited in how far he could really take the offense. I would even speculate that had he NOT gotten injured in the last reg season game in 2014, tOSU may not have steamrolled Wisconsin and gotten into the playoffs. And had they managed to get in, the would have been steamrolled by Bama. Not because JT was not a good player but because he could not pop the top off the defense the way the Jones did. Bama would have just loaded the box and dared JT to throw it downfield. He may have completed a couple here or there, but most likely would have thrown
Um try to stay on point.AGAIN Barret isn't in the top 25 in single season stats in the BIG.Why is that?The other guys have NFL contracts.Because for you my misguided correspondent JT padded stats surrounded by NFL talent vs overmatched opponents the team won inspite of him.Next thing you'll tell the congregation that he's better than Haskins and or Burrow who fans were inquiring about.That you in blissful ignorance miss.OBVIOUSLY those two deserved to be at least platooned.Every OSU QB's stats are padded, being surrounded by NFL talent vs overmatched opponents. Yet no one had the career he had. And again, single-season passing yardage has got to be the most antiquated, erroneous gauge of how good a QB is you could possibly have cited. It's much more of a sign that your team sucks and is behind a lot. You know this.
Let’s start from the top.I don't expect much from you and you never fail to disappoint You paint with a wide brush and expect it to be taken as gospel.Many kids made ohio states record possible,and many of them are employed on Sundays.JT played football he's not marching off to war.So save the he put his body on the line bullshit .You competely ignore the points about Haskins/Burrow.Other teams didn't have those two sitting behind an arm punter.You comparing roses to ragweed.You've not watched or read about anything presented except what you pull out of your very dank crevasse.Saban didn't stand pat and played a freshman quarterback -that's a fair comparison.Meyer just kept trying the same broken thing - with out trying.If you can't see that I can't help you.By Einsteins definition - that's insanity.Meyer trotted out the very same thing that just failed entirely on CFB biggest stage 4 months later in spring ball.NOB laid it out pretty simple for you and both Haskins & Burrow have amply demonstrated what Buckeye fans were inquiring about.I've never said JT or any other student athlete "sucks"I did point out there were what turned out to be better options that Urban Meyer at 5 million a year chose not take.
What Saban did isn’t really relevant to any discussion, but he’s trotted out as a point when any fan base wants to bench a QB. But a year later, he didn’t bench a QB, but that’s weirdly ignored because it implies what Saban did isn’t a way of being, but a rarer thing.
The idea Ohio State boards arguing it is meaningful is a good indication of not reading many board on your part. Here’s the thing, every fan base is arguing they should bench their starter for the shiny backup. They’re doing it in Georgia and South Carolina, Purdue and Wisconsin. It’s not special. It’s college football.
I respect he’s a liar. But I look at that puncher’s chance part. And it’s interesting because making the playoff isn’t a puncher’s chance. Because that’s the entitlement part. The 11-1 happens because you’re Ohio State. No respect that a kid put his body on the line to get there. Because it’s easier to play make believe that a kid who couldn’t pass a 135 QB rating as a junior was gonna put a dent in a Venables defense as a redshirt freshman.
I was in Boston recently, and out for a nightcap after a business event, and I sauntered into a BBQ joint in downtown Boston, the place looked legit, the bartender was a Louisiana native, and I wasn't hungry, just a couple beers. Anyways, what they were charging for BBQ, it was criminal Obvs. real estate commands such prices, but nobody should pay those prices for Q. People getting robbed.
Every OSU QB's stats are padded, being surrounded by NFL talent vs overmatched opponents. Yet no one had the career he had. And again, single-season passing yardage has got to be the most antiquated, erroneous gauge of how good a QB is you could possibly have cited. It's much more of a sign that your team sucks and is behind a lot. You know this.Get it together kid. Grow up. Get a life. Stop being a burden on society.Why don't you go play your little college football game that no one is interested in - thicko.You're wrong UFM had a man crush on JT.You and BAB win Haskins and Burrow both SUCK HAPPY?
He had 2 individual seasons of high-volume, 160+ passer ratings...basically the same as Troy Smith. Heisman-winner Troy Smith. Looking at it closer, Barrett's crime was basically having a great FR season and not repeating it until his SR season. Ohhh, sorry!
And again, you bring up NFL contracts. If you honestly, genuinely cannot differentiate between college success and NFL potential, we can stop here. UM's loyalty wasn't to Barrett, it was to his winning %. He'd diagram a rub play facing his grandma in backyard football if it meant winning vs not winning. He played Barrett over others for a reason. You're pretending 2019 Burrow = 2017 Burrow, and that's obviously silly.
OSU went 49-6 in Barrett's 4 seasons (not all games started by Barrett). He was statistically the best passer in B10 history AND ran for as many TDs as Saquon Barkley and Ezekiel Elliott. And you argue that the only reason he was on the field so much was blind, unwarranted loyalty. Hell, I guess if UM threw one of those other guys out there, OSU would have easily gont 55-0 and they'd have 4 Heismans, right?
Settle down, Beano.
I guess you can see why I'm confused what's allowed around here and what's not.We don't really have rules on it. More common sense than anything. I don't think there has been much over any line here, except for one post, maybe. One was very insulting.
Also, apparently I'm a "global moderator." What exactly does that mean? Does that mean there are peons here who have to get my coffee?
We'll start at the top. Do you feel RS freshman Burrow was better than RS junior Burrow? Simple question, but it stay a lot about setting the table.
Moving on to the non-quantifible part. I think this is interesting because it's not at all unique to Urbs. Fans across the country assume their coach loves their not great QB to a fault. It's pretty common. At a point, we must ask, are all these coaches watching hours of practice films and misjudging all of it (maybe), or are fans by and large built to believe what they've hardly seen is better than what they often see? This is not to say it's 100 percent one way or the other, only that this common feeling might be endemic in the kind of optimism we see in ourselves.
The Schiano thing speaks to another sort of splintered perspective. You're saying the coach would've addressed it early on. I assume you mean early last season, maybe after the suspension? Because here's the thing. You know who built the two best OSU defenses in the Urbs era? That'd be Schiano. His first two were better than Ash's, notably better. Should he have been fired after doing that back-to-back years? Or are we prisoners of rather emotional moments.
(Also worth noting, the new OSU DC was demoted by Michigan, basically passed over twice, and now has this. Maybe it's just the odd nature of CFB at play?)
The larger point is this, it's one of entitlement. OSU fans assume these are 15-0 teams and it is incumbent upon the coaches not to mismanage them down to only playoff teams. There is no thought that it's hard to be that good, that consistently contending, that there's an easy fix if only some young player were handed the job without putting in the work. We ignore the oddity of the sport, the fact almost no one goes undefeated and only one team wins each season. Perhaps the earlier part is how sports should be and really is, but I remain skeptical.
You always do this. One poster says something, then you attribute it to all OSU fans or all Big Ten fans. Asinine.
I don't expect much from you and you never fail to disappoint You paint with a wide brush and expect it to be taken as gospel.Many kids made ohio states record possible,and many of them are employed on Sundays.JT played football he's not marching off to war.So save the he put his body on the line bullshit .You competely ignore the points about Haskins/Burrow.Other teams didn't have those two sitting behind an arm punter.You comparing roses to ragweed.You've not watched or read about anything presented except what you pull out of your very dank crevasse.Saban didn't stand pat and played a freshman quarterback -that's a fair comparison.Meyer just kept trying the same broken thing - with out trying.If you can't see that I can't help you.By Einsteins definition - that's insanity.Meyer trotted out the very same thing that just failed entirely on CFB biggest stage 4 months later in spring ball.NOB laid it out pretty simple for you and both Haskins & Burrow have amply demonstrated what Buckeye fans were inquiring about.I've never said JT or any other student athlete "sucks"I did point out there were what turned out to be better options that Urban Meyer at 5 million a year chose not take.There’s a lot in there, much about how what persons never actually did is held in high regard compared to what someone actually did that contributed to a national title. you point out JT failed on a big stage, the implication is some second year QB wouldn't have. I reject that premise.
I think Ohio State is the best team in the country right now. It sucks but that's the reality. Recently seeking entertainment by reading Notre Dame message boards after Michigan's beat down of the Irish I noticed a common theme in many posts: fire Brian Kelly and hire Urban Meyer.I have thought this for several weeks, and of course, "fans" think hiring some new coach is a panacea.
You'd probably know more on this than I do, Medina, but I would guess that the Midwest in general has gotten less blue as the strength and numbers of big labor have declined.Ohio has but only slightly until 2016 and you have to go back almost 50 years to find a Presidential election in which Ohio voted more Democratic than the nation as a whole. As noted above, Ohio has voted for the winner in 15 straight Presidential elections (starting with 1964) so the Buckeye State has, for the last ~60 years, been pretty much even with the nation as a whole. I believe that Ohio's 52 year streak of voting for the winning Presidential candidate is the longest such streak in the nation. Lately, however, Ohio has typically been slightly to the right of the national vote so it is basically just a matter of time until Ohio votes for an unsuccessful Republican candidate:
If I were to concoct one rule (which I'm not doing), I'd say that we should avoid posting any names of politicians here.I think there is a way to talk about the impact of politics without debating politics, and I'm good with that. I don't think anyone here is taking one side or the other, simply pointing out the impact of the demographics.
That said, medina's breakout is as usual interesting (and apolitical as it is just facts).
Ohio has but only slightly until 2016 and you have to go back almost 50 years to find a Presidential election in which Ohio voted more Democratic than the nation as a whole. As noted above, Ohio has voted for the winner in 15 straight Presidential elections (starting with 1964) so the Buckeye State has, for the last ~60 years, been pretty much even with the nation as a whole. I believe that Ohio's 52 year streak of voting for the winning Presidential candidate is the longest such streak in the nation. Lately, however, Ohio has typically been slightly to the right of the national vote so it is basically just a matter of time until Ohio votes for an unsuccessful Republican candidate:Thanks, I love data like this. Very interesting.
- In 2016 the national popular vote was 48/46 D while Ohio was 52/43 R so Ohio was ~3-4 points to the right.
- In 2012 the national popular vote was 51/47 D while Ohio was 51/48 D so Ohio was slightly to the right.
- In 2008 the national popular vote was 53/46 D while Ohio was 51/47 D so Ohio was ~1-2 points to the right.
- In 2004 the national popular vote was 51/48 R while Ohio was 51/48 R so Ohio was close to dead on.
- In 2000 the national popular vote was almost exactly even while Ohio was 50/47 R so Ohio Was slightly to the right.
- In 1996 the national popular vote was 49/41 D while Ohio was 47/41 D so Ohio was slightly to the right.
- In 1992 the national popular vote was 43/37 D while Ohio was 40/38 D so Ohio was slightly to the right.
- In 1988 the national popular vote was 53/46 R while Ohio was 55/44 R so Ohio was slightly to the right.
- In 1984 the national popular vote was 59/41 R while Ohio was 59/40 R so Ohio was close to dead on.
- In 1980 the national popular vote was 51/41 R while Ohio was 52/41 R so Ohio was slightly to the right.
- In 1976 the national popular vote was 50/48 R while Ohio was almost exactly even so Ohio was slightly to the right.
- In 1972 the national popular vote was 61/38 R while Ohio was 60/38 D so Ohio was slightly to the left.
- In 1968 the national popular vote was almost exactly even while Ohio was slightly to the right of that.
- In 1964 the national popular vote was 61/39 D while Ohio was 63/37 D so Ohio was slightly to the left.
- In 1960 the national popular vote was almost exactly even while Ohio was 53/47 R so Ohio was slightly to the right.
Note that Ohio was more Democratic than the nation as a whole in 1964 and 1972. Ohio was only slightly to the right in all of the other elections since 1960 until 2016 when Ohio was substantially more Republican than the nation as a whole.
There is a trend but it is pretty minor. From ~1960-1972 Ohio was slightly more Republican than the country twice and slightly more Democratic twice. After that Ohio became consistently more Republican but only by a VERY thin margin so that isn't much change.
If you graphed this all out for the Great Lakes States I think you'd see roughly the same thing in MN, WI, MI, and PA. They have all probably drifted slightly to the right and then moved sharply right in 2016. The interesting thing to see, going forward, will be if that right turn in 2016 is a trend that future Republican candidates can maintain or even grow (possibly taking Minnesota where Trump lost by about 1.5%) or if it is a one-time phenomena that future Democratic candidates can reverse.
Close states in 2016:
States that Tump won by <8%:Note that Ohio is conspicuously absent from this list. For decades Ohio has been a swing state if not THE Swing State but in 2016 Trump won Ohio by a comfortable 8.13% margin (slightly to the right of Georgia and just left of Texas).
- 16 EV's, Michigan, Trump won by 0.23%
- 20 EV's, Pennsylvania, Trump won by 0.72%
- 10 EV's, Wisconsin, Trump won by 0.77%
- 29 EV's, Florida, Trump won by 1.20%
- 1 EV, Nebraska 2nd District, Trump won by 2.24%
- 11 EV's, Arizona, Trump won by 3.55%
- 15 EV's, North Carolina, Trump won by 3.66%
- 16 EV's, Georgia, Trump won by 5.13%
States that Clinton won by <8%:
- 4 EV's, New Hampshire, Clinton won by 0.37%
- 10 EV's, Minnesota, Clinton won by 1.52%
- 6 EV's, Nevada, Clinton won by 2.42%
- 2 EV's, Maine at-large, Clinton won by 2.96%
- 9 EV's, Colorado, Clinton won by 4.91%
- 13 EV's, Virginia, Clinton won by 5.32%
This really demonstrates how precarious Trump's 2016 win was. He won 102 EV's by <5% and 115 by less than 6%. Even a leftward shift of just 1% would flip the election. Meanwhile, Clinton only won 31 EV's by <5% meaning that a rightward shift wouldn't change much because there aren't many competitive states that Clinton actually won.
Assuming that the seven "faithless electors" would have voted for the candidate that won their state if it mattered:Won by at least 1%:
- Clinton won 232 EV's.
- Trump won 306 EV's.
Won by at least 2%:
- Clinton won 228 EV's by at least 1% (subtract 4 NH)
- Trump won 260 EV's by at least 1% (subtract 16 MI, 20 PA, 10 WI)
Won by at least 3%:
- Clinton won 218 EV's by at least 2% (subtract 10 MN)
- Trump won 231 EV's by at least 2% (subtract 29 FL)
Won by at least 4%:
- Clinton won 212 EV's by at least 3% (subtract 6 NV)
- Trump won 230 EV's by at least 3% (subtract 1 NE 2nd)
Won by at least 5%:
- Clinton won 212 EV's by at least 4% (none 3-4%)
- Trump won 204 EV's by at least 4% (subtract 11 AZ, 15 NC)
Won by at least 6%:
- Clinton won 203 EV's by at least 5% (subtract 9 CO)
- Trump won 204 EV's by at least 5% (none 4-5%)
- Clinton won 190 EV's by at least 6% (subtract 13 VA)
- Trump won 188 EV's by at least 6% (subtract 16 GA)
The next closest states after that are Ohio (18 EV's Trump won by 8.13%) and New Mexico (5 EV's Clinton won by 8.21%).
Thanks, I love data like this. Very interesting.It is a point of interest for sure, and I'm pretty certain we all know why.
Another point of interest, millennials and Gen X are far more liberal than older generations. As those groups become larger voting blocks it will be interesting to see if that will counter the red shift in some of these states.
There’s a lot in there, much about how what persons never actually did is held in high regard compared to what someone actually did that contributed to a national title. you point out JT failed on a big stage, the implication is some second year QB wouldn't have. I reject that premise. You can reject the fact that one coach (Saban) took a proactive stance and replaced a running QB with a thrower and won.Another coach under similiar circumstances stood pat for 2 seasons after the fact with men that proved to be winners.So comprehension is the problem not attitude - my bad
(I also point out that if Burrow crapped the bed vs Clemson, we’d have laments about him years laterMaking shyt up in your alternate universe -good stuff.Nobody and I mean nobody would have blamed Urbz for trying after JT himself made the case for relief.31-0 smashing - your career as a football analyst continues to skyrocket - not
The Saban part is again a comparison of convenience. No it's a comparison of similiar circumstances - nothing ventured nothing gained.How many times does that have to be paraded in front of your eyes
We wouldn’t say a third stringer should be put in by OSU at the start of the playoffs this year, even thought it’s the only way OSU has claimed a title this decade.Yes a 3rd stringer that Urban didn't play or recruit but had to settle on.Who could go over the top and stretch a defense as NOB previously pointed out to you - twice
I look at the part where you say I’ve not read or watched anything but what I pull from my ... well. And the issue is the opposite. I seen too much. I’ve seen it all through your eyes. If you really believe that then You've taken enough drugs to send sniffer dogs into early retirement
I’ve seen more than a decade, close to a decade and a half of this message board, and Close to 20 years on message boards at large. I have seen my own fan base call for benching‘s of between nine and 11 of its past 12 starting quarterbacks. Oh forgive me I didn't know your fanbase had a QB drafted in the 1st round after setting single season Big Ten records in passing yds and TDs.Also set single season Team records in passing %,TDs & Yds who just happened to have to sit 2 yrs behind a guy who got cut 3 times from NFL practice squads.I'd bring up the other back up but he's busy filling out his resume rather handsomely at LSU
And I have been told they tried to bench the three before that too. Ohio State had a run of five consecutive quarterbacks which they were deeply dissatisfied with, at least four who they called to be benched, two of them were. I’ve heard how SO many backup QBs would’ve changed things and how so many coaches don’t know what they’re doing. There's that wide brush again I didn't know that our fans had been deeply dissatified with Terrelle Pryor,Braxton Miller or Cardale Jones but I haven't been told that so you got me there.I made a passing reference oh 10 pages back about a specific situation.And you had to jump in and correct me on Generalities,turning a ripple into a Tsunami
I agree easy coin
I think he should stay in the booth, and will, but that's a guess.
It is a point of interest for sure, and I'm pretty certain we all know why.Staying on facts only, student loans and housing prices have far outpaced inflation. That is a major factor in why they are less likely to own cars, have fewer or no children, and live at home.
Interesting, also, is that the several who work for me are not liberal. Two of them still live with their parents though. I guess that's a thing too, with that generation.
That bugs me.
T
I agree easy coinhelluva lot fewer hours in the work week
Staying on facts only, student loans and housing prices have far outpaced inflation. That is a major factor in why they are less likely to own cars, have fewer or no children, and live at home.something wicked this way comes and I'm not talking about last nite's Chili - hope I'm wrong
The automobile industry is in serious trouble.
Tangentially related, can we do an investing post, too?
Thanks, I love data like this. Very interesting.scared the heck outa my liberal daughters.............
Another point of interest, millennials and Gen X are far more liberal than older generations. As those groups become larger voting blocks it will be interesting to see if that will counter the red shift in some of these states.
Of course you are right that the coach has hundreds if not thousands of hours of tape and practice on who his QB is. We the fans, get one maybe two practices and game day. We fans also have selective memory, for OSU we all remember Jackson (starter) Germaine (backup) fiasco ("It cost us a national title!") Backups and Rookies tend to get a performance bump, because like us fans opposing coaches and defenses haven't had a chance to study him as well. I really think the "No Tape On Jones", helped OSU win the 14 title. He looked world beater those 3 games, but seemed human the next year... So, it becomes obvious that the backup is better, especially when the backup can do something the starter has struggled with.I agree with most of your post. However, I would like to address this paragraph.
A big student loan for a degree in art history is not a good thing.Staying on facts only:
A big student loan for a degree in the STEM fields is fine, and manageable.
It's not hard to connect the dots here.
Daughter #1 majored in French and English at OSU. I was paying about $16 K a year all in. Not bad. She now works in C-bus as a "Senior Web Designer" and is making close to $100 K, which is pretty good there. The other one in Texas majored in polysci I think and went to law school and is making well over $100 K. You don't have to major in a STEM necessarily if you are flexible and hard working. (Our uncle paid for the second one's education, aside from law school. Not working as a lawyer.)Depends what you want to do. If you want to be a licensed engineer, for example, there is no other choice but to get an engineering degree. I wish more kids would go into engineering, because it's really hard to find them these days (probably because it's not easy, and most kids like easy).
bingo
Show up for work on time, be honest, do a reasonable job with reasonable effort ....
Get it together kid. Grow up. Get a life. Stop being a burden on society.Why don't you go play your little college football game that no one is interested in - thicko.You're wrong UFM had a man crush on JT.You and BAB win Haskins and Burrow both SUCK HAPPY?Are you okay? Do you want to talk about it?
Nubbz, I’ll give you this, you’ve made a good case. Because I have to admit every time I’ve heard an Ohio St fan complain about JT Barrett my knee jerk reaction has always been, “You spoiled brats are complaining about a guy who won a ton of games and set a ton of records? Give me a break.”Thanx K60 I followed it pretty closely 3 yrs back,and I shouldn't be so passionette for sure.It's just for years-n-years following the Browns/Indians it is never a given you'll get back there.Had to wait 34 years for Ohio State to get one then lose two more.JT wasn't bad and maybe a platooning thing could have worked.When the opponent can effectively remove 20-30% of the field to cover then Earl Campbell,Jim Brown or Barry Sanders better be carrying the rock not JT.Urban promised after that shellacking there would be change and... did...nothing.That's what chapped many a moons.There were 2 gunslingers right there with itchy trigger fingers wanting into the fray - that was the WTF moment
Show up for work on time, be honest, do a reasonable job with reasonable effort ....This really is the key. I hire people here and unless you are just REALLY dense I can train you to do the work but I can't train somebody to show up sober at 8am every morning and put in a reasonable level of effort.
Are you okay? Do you want to talk about it?Go play with your game boy
This really is the key. I hire people here and unless you are just REALLY dense I can train you to do the work but I can't train somebody to show up sober at 8am every morning and put in a reasonable level of effort.Sober ...at 8am ......well I was going to ask
https://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/200511/history.cfm (https://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/200511/history.cfm)
The EPR paper is a famous one from the period where quantum mechanics was being discussed (and disputed). Einstein had a very deterministic view of the universe. QM was/is clearly contrary to that view, so he fought against it, or more correctly he challenged it as being incomplete.
Werner Heisenberg, Niels Bohr and others who helped create the theory insisted that there was no meaningful way in which to discuss certain details of an atom’s behavior: for example, one could never predict the precise moment when an atom would emit a quantum of light. But Einstein could never fully accept this innate uncertainty, once famously declaring, “God does not play dice.” He wasn’t alone in his discomfort: Erwin Schrödinger, inventor of the wave function, once declared of quantum mechanics, “I don’t like it, and I’m sorry I ever had anything to do with it.”
In a 1935 paper, Einstein, Boris Podolsky and Nathan Rosen introduced a thought experiment to argue that quantum mechanics was not a complete physical theory. Known today as the “EPR paradox,” the thought experiment was meant to demonstrate the innate conceptual difficulties of quantum theory. It said that the result of a measurement on one particle of an entangled quantum system can have an instantaneous effect on another particle, regardless of the distance of the two parts.
There are kids coming out of the local college with AAT degrees making a lot of money, doing things like manufacturing technology, welding, HVAC, etc. No student loans either. These kids will never be my problem. We just need more of them.I've been pushing this for YEARS. Voc Ed is massively under-utilized in our society.
Sober ...at 8am ......well I was going to askI guess you won't be working for Medina
A big student loan for a degree in art history is not a good thing.+1
A big student loan for a degree in the STEM fields is fine, and manageable.
It's not hard to connect the dots here.
Heisenberg , Shrodinger and Ohm are driving in a car and get pulled over by a police officer. Heisenberg is driving and the cop asks him "Do you know how fast you were going." Heisenberg responds that he does not so the officer says "You were doing 55 in a 35." Heisenberg throws up his hands and shouts "Great, now I'm lost!"LoL, this cracked me up!
The cop thinks that's suspicious so he orders him to pop the trunk. He takes a look and says "Do you know you have a dead cat back here?" "We do now, asshole!" shouts Shrodinger.
The cop proceeds to arrest them. Ohm resists.
Entropy isn't what it used to be.Entropy isn't what HE used to be either
Thanks, I love data like this. Very interesting.We'll see. As @FearlessF (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=10) pointed out above, there is a general tendency for people to shift somewhat toward the right as they age but a lot of that has to do with getting married*, buying a house, and having children. The thing is that all three of those are things that the younger generation is doing later and later in life if at all.
Another point of interest, millennials and Gen X are far more liberal than older generations. As those groups become larger voting blocks it will be interesting to see if that will counter the red shift in some of these states.
There are kids coming out of the local college with AAT degrees making a lot of money, doing things like manufacturing technology, welding, HVAC, etc. No student loans either. These kids will never be my problem. We just need more of them.
We are opening up a new plant and we are scraping to find Welding, HVAC, Plumbers, electricians, carpenters, machinists, etc.You are preaching to the choir. And these are living wage jobs!!
Go play with your game boyYou seem angry.
I guess you won't be working for MedinaMaybe he has a 12 step program.If you can take 12 straight steps - you're in
You seem angry.Is there anything else this week you'd like to correct humanity on while you have your soap box.
Maybe a HC not putting in a QB with a cannon for an arm has good reasons and it isn't just idiocy. Perhaps the QB doesn't have the playbook down. Perhaps he stutters when calling out the play. Maybe he loafs it in practice. Maybe he's loose with the football.
To pretend you know better is more childish than anything I've said or done here.
Obviously, some certificates are worth a lot more than othersThere are some contributors here that are certifiable
Is there anything else this week you'd like to correct humanity on while you have your soap box.I don't understand why I irk you. I'm posting on a forum. That's what it's for.
It is a point of interest for sure, and I'm pretty certain we all know why.Ooo, you hit on a topic I enjoy.
Interesting, also, is that the several who work for me are not liberal. Two of them still live with their parents though. I guess that's a thing too, with that generation.
That bugs me.
JT was a good College QB.I think this is mostly true. And I’m also a tad skeptical Burrow was throwing all those ropes in 2016.
Could he throw it 40 yards on a rope, and hit the guy in stride on his right shoulder? No. That's not who he was.
Could he extend a play with his legs just long enough to find that one guy that shaked off his man and got wide ass open? Yeah, most of the time.
Interestingly, I can’t quote Nubbz’ last post, but if we can’t agree that at points OSU fans raged about Pryor, Miller and Jones spraying balls and called for JT to replace Jones in 2015 or Guyton to replace Miller in whatever year that was, we just won’t see eye to eye.I see you have resorted to reductio ad absurdum in claiming that everyone that questions Meyers decision was saying that JT was a horrible QB and cost tOSU multiple titles. That is NOT what I was saying.
I yield. JT playing cost OSU two made up alternate universe titles. He should be remembered as the failure he was. If only he could’ve been what we imagine Burrow three years ago was.
(I’ll admit, understanding OSU football in some ways through the message board posts of OSU fans does feel a little like taking drugs. Thanks for the high, I guess? I’m impressed how mad that part made you)
I see you have resorted to reductio ad absurdum in claiming that everyone that questions Meyers decision was saying that JT was a horrible QB and cost tOSU multiple titles. That is NOT what I was saying.(This was more a response to some comments about the drugs I was apparently doing, not your comments. I think we’re like 2 percent apart, which happens, and our passion for arguing makes it seem wider)
All I was saying was that Meyer had a habit, history, whatever, of settling on something and then resisting any future input that might not support his original decision. He became loyal to players, coaches and offensive philosophies. He was very stubborn, just as I believe most high profile coaches are.
I won't argue that JT was not a very good college QB; he was. He just did not have the ability to win the games against the best competition due to his inability to effectively pass down field. And the frustrating part of that is when you see that they had QB's on the bench that were very capable doing just that.
Again, I am very happy with the results over the past 7-8 years, but it just makes you wonder what else could have been done differently.
If you can't see that I can't help you.By Einsteins definition - that's insanity.
The living at home thing, it irks a lot of people, but I can’t help but wonder if it’s just a reversion to the way things used to be. A contraction of a historical blip.This is a fascinating take. I think there is a lot of truth in what you have said here. I also think that we are getting poorer (or at least not getting richer nearly as quickly as we were in the 40's, 50's, and 60's) and that has a lot to do with it as well.
So how long ago was it assumed a person was automatically out of the house at 18, maybe since WWII? So about 60-65 years? That’s not all that long. It’s about as long as pensions existed, which are economically nonsensical, but were normalized and took a while to phase out.
So going to college, never coming back became normalized, but what if it’s not economically advantageous short term? Let’s do the math. You’re going to end up with minimum $600 a month in costs between rent and bills, and $700 is more likely still on the low side. So that’s $7,200 or $8,400 on the low end to just feel like more of an adult.
If one of you’re kids said I’m spending $7,200 a year to feel more like an adult, you’d tell them to be responsible. I see a measure of responsibility, using an unused room. You can’t just be a drain, but I think it’s an outlier only in a recent historical term.
(To be clear, this is in a short term world rather than a long term. If you’re home a year or even six months, you best be helping out in a big way.)
I think it is funny that someone brought up the "reductio ad absurdum" fallacy, (Which was true) When what we have mostly seen on both sides is ad hominin.I refuse to engage in ad hominin attacks as they generally say more about the person attacking than they do of the person on the receiving end. I know that my opinions are just that, opinions. And I also understand that they may differ from others, and that is fine. I just want to be sure that I express my opinion correctly so that those reading it will understand what I wish to convey as opposed to what they may want to believe.
Never can understand why it is necessary when we disagree with someone.
This is one of the stranger debates I can recall on this message board. Not sure anybody has been covered in glory.
This Fields guy looks to me like a really capable QB.
we all know that Nebraska is a BIG RED stateThat is why I didn't include them in the chart. There isn't much worth discussing because Nebraska is to the right of Indiana. They haven't voted Democratic in a Presidential election since LBJ's landslide in 1964 (and even that was close in NE). Prior to that it was 1936 when Nebraskans voted for FDR over Alf Landon who didn't even carry his neighboring home state of Kansas.
I thought my physics joke was pretty funny.It was....after I looked it up
I'd like to order that chart Medina, please.I emailed it to you.
Interestingly, I can’t quote Nubbz’ last post.It didn't stop you from starting in on me in the 1st place,so by all means continue.
but if we can’t agree that at points OSU fans raged about Pryor, Miller and Jones spraying balls and called for JT to replace Jones in 2015 or Guyton to replace Miller in whatever year that was, we just won’t see eye to eye. I was never bitching about Pryor, Miller and Jones - where ever that came from.So direct that to your phantom fanboys here or where ever.
I yield. JT playing cost OSU two made up alternate universe titles. He should be remembered as the failure he was. If only he could’ve been what we imagine Burrow three years ago was. Oh you yield - then proceed to turn an assinine assumption into an astute observation.Go find those quotes,Ill wait,I simply pointed out the need to platoon/substitute maybe replace.So if something isn't working don't dare to take creative/corrective measures to perhaps get the desired results - is that your take?After the 31-0 white washed waxing Urban still handed the job right back to a lobber.With Joe Burrow & Dwayne Haskins waiting in the wings.The beat writers,reporters,bloggers and season ticket holders never noticed this at all.It was just that morose,misguided yapping jackel NUBBZ on the media back waters that questioned the head coach,gotcha.
(I’ll admit, understanding OSU football in some ways through the message board posts of OSU fans does feel a little like taking drugs. Thanks for the high, I guess? I’m impressed how mad that part made you)I'm mad?Don't flatter yourself,you wanted an argument - ya got one,stop acting appalled.I've come to the realization that you are the same guy that thought I came down too hard on John Cooper for beating Michigan twice in 13 years.Ya unreasonable Buckeye Fans.Strange they are 16-2 vs that same team since he was terminated,Michigan Fans get that.I don't demand perfection far from it but when excellence is within reach pull out the damn stops
WI even at the state level (house and senate) has volleyed back and forth for a few generations. Rs have had more years in control of Gov since 84, opposite of Presidential vote in WI. I'd guess at the Presidential level they've had 4 of the closest 15 results nationally as a % of votes cast since 2000, despite being Red every time but once since 1984.I guess this isn't the thread to joke around. Thanks.
I'd like to order that chart Medina, please.
I thought my physics joke was pretty funny.I did too. Enough so that I posted it on another board.
@bayareabadger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1571) the reason you can't quote the last quote is I have nested quotes turned off... recall the old page where there would be page after page of quotes inside quotes inside quotes? yeah... selfish, I know, but that drove me crazy. The downside is if someone quotes someone else and then enters text into the quote in response, it won't be able to be quoted because the system see's it as a 'nested quote'.Yeah, I figured that out after second. Probably for the best.
Can whoever is on MrNubbz' lawn please get off it?!?!?You can start worrying when i get to pulling the weeds
Ohio State looks to be very very good, to me. AS noted, mobile QBs are often a feature of NC level teams.would you knock it off!
I think Fromm would do fine at OSU, just not as good as Fields. The mobility factor is an more of an advantage.Obviously not. UM kept trotting Barrett out there because of his mobility factor, and look how poorly that turned out. :88:
It's be nice if you knuckleheads called a truce for a little while.I've been having a conversation. The 'fighting' has been a bit one-sided, no?
Whatever happened to Stingray66? By far the coolest Buckeye here.well, coolest message board name for sure
No offense to the rest of you BuckNerds :)
Whatever happened to Stingray66? By far the coolest Buckeye here.The guy who told the Physics joke is calling other people nerds?
No offense to the rest of you BuckNerds :)
If Clemson is 13-0, then there could be 4 12-1 conference champs and 3 spots, and that would be a mess.I don't think that is all that messy. Clemson, the 12-1 SEC Champ, and the 12-1 B1G Champ are in. That leaves one spot for either:
12-1 tOSU with a loss to the boat rower in Indy?I think that would keep Ohio State out barring chaos elsewhere. OTOH, if it came down to 12-1 tOSU with a loss to Minnesota in the B1GCG vs 11-1 Bama/LSU with a loss to Bama/LSU in the regular season I would certainly advocate for Ohio State.
chaos
I don't think that is all that messy. Clemson, the 12-1 SEC Champ, and the 12-1 B1G Champ are in. That leaves one spot for either:the two that are left out are going to make a helluva mess of this
- The 12-1 B12 Champ, or
- The 12-1 Pac Champ, or
- A potential 11-1 Bama/LSU or tOSU/PSU loser
i mean, it is 4 quality losses.Any SEC team with 4 conference losses has 4 quality losses, obviously, we can all agree to that.
yup, it would be less messy if:Fixed that for you. You're welcome.
Clemson, the 12-1 SEC Champ, and the 12-1 B1G Champ are in. That leaves five spots for:
The 12-1 B12 Champ, and
The 9-4 Pac Champ, and
The top G5 team, and
Two worthy at-large teams
In the year 2555, we shall have 140 teams in the playoff, and folks will still be mad about being left out.In the year 2555, if man is still alive,If woman can survive,.......
Any SEC team with 4 conference losses has 4 quality losses, obviously, we can all agree to that.Why of course who could possibly disagree as the mountain of evidence surely points this out.Just ask Gary Danielson - if his head is above the table
In the year 2555, we shall have 140 teams in the playoff, and folks will still be mad about being left out.Only if man is still alive.