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Topic: OSU and reality

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Cincydawg

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Re: OSU and reality
« Reply #154 on: October 30, 2019, 02:37:35 PM »
I'm still in an 0-fer in the ATL on the Q.  Fox Bros. had some good brisket though.  They are two bros, from Texas, so there is that.

We went back to Fat Matt's again.  It was packed, and the Q was just so-so IMHO.  The slaw was pretty bad in fact.

They did have a blues band playing.

I may have to just get by on the McRib.

MikeDeTiger

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Re: OSU and reality
« Reply #155 on: October 30, 2019, 03:02:31 PM »
Everyone knows real BBQ is in Texas and DB U is the U of Texas-Austin

As David Pollack said, more like DB-Burnt-U.

There is great brisket in TX.  If we're talking pork, I like the NEArkansas/TN area very well.  Of course the best stuff is not from a restaurant but from somebody's back porch who knows what they're doing.  

There was a chili cookoff at my church last Sunday.  Some of that stuff was very good.  Some of it....was not.  I felt some of those people needed their Texan licenses revoked.  utee said Texans making bad chili should be reported to the Texas Rangers.  Seems wise, Walker would know what to do with people like that.  I saw beans.  

I've never been to a Cajun restaurant I thought was real Cajun food, even in Acadiana.  But a lot have come probably as close as possible while still passing code.  

MrNubbz

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Re: OSU and reality
« Reply #156 on: October 30, 2019, 03:44:17 PM »
Don't get me started on wine ratings.
Wash your feet stomp the damn grapes and get it out here
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: OSU and reality
« Reply #157 on: October 30, 2019, 04:16:06 PM »
I'd venture this is more due to other demographics favoring CFB. First, the "power" teams are often located in red states. You've got the South, you've got the upper Midwest (rust belt that was formerly red although is more purple these days), and you've got the central swath from Nebraska down to Texas.

Out here on the Left coast, and in the mid-Atlantic to Northeast states, college football is not nearly as popular.

Couple that with the fact that college football fandom is more rural in general, whereas pro sports and the NFL are more aligned with big metro areas, and rural areas skew more to the right. Boston is all about the Pats, not BC. NYC is all about the Giants and Jets, not Rutger and Syracuse. DC is about the Redskins, not about UMD. Chicago is about the Bears, not the Wildcats. LA is a mess in general, but it's a Rams town now. SF is about the 49ers, and doesn't care about Stanford all that much. And while Seattle has UDub local, it's still all about the Seahawks. So the biggest metro areas that would skew things blue are more interested in the local NFL teams than the local-ish NCAA teams.

So if the biggest CFB programs and fan bases just tend to geographically align with the reddest [rural] parts of the reddest states, it makes perfect sense that CFB fandom would skew to the right. 
I think this is a good point that I hadn't really thought about.  I suppose that if you checked certain teams you would find a more leftward skew among their fans.  Ie, BC fans, to the extent that they exist are probably generally from the greater Boston Metro area and they are probably pretty left leaning compared to CFB fans in general.  

I strongly disagree with your parenthetical that I bolded.  Going W->E through the Great Lakes states:
  • Minnesota barely voted for Clinton over Trump.  This was previously a Democratic stronghold.  It was the only state to vote for Mondale over Reagan in 1984 and hasn't voted for a Republican for President since Nixon's landslide in 1972.  Even then, Nixon won the national popular vote 61-38 and carried 49 states but he only won Minnesota 52-46 so Minnesota was ~8% more Democratic than the US as a whole.  The popular vote in the 2016 election Minnesota was slightly more Republican than the national popular vote.  Minnesota was formerly deep blue and is possibly trending purple.  
  • Wisconsin went red in 2016, for the first time since 1984.  There again, in 1984 Reagan won the national popular vote by about 18% but he only won Wisconsin by about 9%.  Wisconsin is a formerly deep blue state possibly trending purple.  
  • Illinois is and remains deep blue, no trend either way.  
  • Indiana is a solidly red state in any race in which it matters.  Obama did carry the Hoosier State in 2008 but only barely despite winning the national popular vote by 7%.  Prior to that the last Democrat to carry Indiana was Lyndon Johnson in 1964.  Note that 2008 and 1964 were both Democratic landslides.  This is the inverse of MN/WI where the last time (prior to 2016 in WI's case) that a Republican won there it was in a national Republican landslide (1972 and 1984).  
  • Michigan went red in 2016, for the first time since 1988.  Like Minnesota and Wisconsin this is a formerly deep blue state that is possibly trending purple.  
  • Ohio (this is the one I know the most about) has voted for every winning Presidential candidate for the last 50+ years.  The last candidate to win without Ohio was Kennedy in 1960.  However, Ohio has been trending more red.  In 2016 the state went Republican by ~8% while the national popular vote was 10% to the left of that.  
  • Pennsylvania went red in 2016 for the first time since 1988.  Like MN, WI, and MI this is a formerly deep blue state that is possibly trending purple.  

Note that with MN, WI, MI, and PA I stated that they are "possibly trending purple".  All of them were more Republican than the national vote in the 2016 election but obviously one election does not make a trend and if you look at results from the last few elections (not who won, but how the vote compared to the national vote) it is a mixed bag.  That said, I see nothing to support your assertion of formerly red and trending purple.  

Back to Penn State, I'm not sure how that would apply.  PA was formerly pretty solidly blue but it was trending more purplish even before 2016 and, of course, went red in 2016 for the first time since 1988.  It probably depends largely on where the PSU fans in question are from.  Looking at the 2016 PA election map there is a blue county in Western PA (Pittsburg), one in central PA (I think PSU), one a little SE of that (?) then a bunch around Philly and along the NJ border.  The rest of the state ranges from light red to dark red.  
I do think we've been walking a fine line around here.

For me, and I said this last week, there are topics that are politics-adjacent that are interesting to delve into but they're not really "political debate". However, there are certain political "third rail" issues--or perhaps discussion specifically about certain politicians--that can quickly destroy dialogue and turn it ugly.

A more academic discussion about why certain sports may skew certain directions politically is a different thing than having a political debate...
That is my theory.  We definitely don't want this to become a political debate forum but at least in my opinion, discussing what happened in a more academic way should be fine.  

FearlessF

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Re: OSU and reality
« Reply #158 on: October 30, 2019, 04:18:02 PM »
I'm still in an 0-fer in the ATL on the Q.  Fox Bros. had some good brisket though.  They are two bros, from Texas, so there is that.

We went back to Fat Matt's again.  It was packed, and the Q was just so-so IMHO.  The slaw was pretty bad in fact.

They did have a blues band playing.

I may have to just get by on the McRib.
was the band solid?
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OSU and reality
« Reply #159 on: October 30, 2019, 06:49:58 PM »
Good points, @medinabuckeye1 

I forget that much of the rust belt is manufacturing/union territory and trends blue. And I think their tendency to go red/purple in 2016 was an outlier. So you're right on those states.

I was thinking a bit of Indiana because of my time at Purdue, knowing it's always been very red. It was a mistake to generalize it wider in the Midwest.

CWSooner

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Re: OSU and reality
« Reply #160 on: October 30, 2019, 09:44:56 PM »
I strongly disagree with your parenthetical that I bolded.  Going W->E through the Great Lakes states:
  • Minnesota barely voted for Clinton over Trump.  This was previously a Democratic stronghold.  It was the only state to vote for Mondale over Reagan in 1984 and hasn't voted for a Republican for President since Nixon's landslide in 1972.  Even then, Nixon won the national popular vote 61-38 and carried 49 states but he only won Minnesota 52-46 so Minnesota was ~8% more Democratic than the US as a whole.  The popular vote in the 2016 election Minnesota was slightly more Republican than the national popular vote.  Minnesota was formerly deep blue and is possibly trending purple. 
  • Wisconsin went red in 2016, for the first time since 1984.  There again, in 1984 Reagan won the national popular vote by about 18% but he only won Wisconsin by about 9%.  Wisconsin is a formerly deep blue state possibly trending purple. 
  • Illinois is and remains deep blue, no trend either way. 
  • Indiana is a solidly red state in any race in which it matters.  Obama did carry the Hoosier State in 2008 but only barely despite winning the national popular vote by 7%.  Prior to that the last Democrat to carry Indiana was Lyndon Johnson in 1964.  Note that 2008 and 1964 were both Democratic landslides.  This is the inverse of MN/WI where the last time (prior to 2016 in WI's case) that a Republican won there it was in a national Republican landslide (1972 and 1984). 
  • Michigan went red in 2016, for the first time since 1988.  Like Minnesota and Wisconsin this is a formerly deep blue state that is possibly trending purple. 
  • Ohio (this is the one I know the most about) has voted for every winning Presidential candidate for the last 50+ years.  The last candidate to win without Ohio was Kennedy in 1960.  However, Ohio has been trending more red.  In 2016 the state went Republican by ~8% while the national popular vote was 10% to the left of that. 
  • Pennsylvania went red in 2016 for the first time since 1988.  Like MN, WI, and MI this is a formerly deep blue state that is possibly trending purple. 

Note that with MN, WI, MI, and PA I stated that they are "possibly trending purple".  All of them were more Republican than the national vote in the 2016 election but obviously one election does not make a trend and if you look at results from the last few elections (not who won, but how the vote compared to the national vote) it is a mixed bag.  That said, I see nothing to support your assertion of formerly red and trending purple. 

Back to Penn State, I'm not sure how that would apply.  PA was formerly pretty solidly blue but it was trending more purplish even before 2016 and, of course, went red in 2016 for the first time since 1988.  It probably depends largely on where the PSU fans in question are from.  Looking at the 2016 PA election map there is a blue county in Western PA (Pittsburg), one in central PA (I think PSU), one a little SE of that (?) then a bunch around Philly and along the NJ border.  The rest of the state ranges from light red to dark red.  That is my theory.  We definitely don't want this to become a political debate forum but at least in my opinion, discussing what happened in a more academic way should be fine.
You'd probably know more on this than I do, Medina, but I would guess that the Midwest in general has gotten less blue as the strength and numbers of big labor have declined.  
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bayareabadger

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Re: OSU and reality
« Reply #161 on: October 30, 2019, 11:31:24 PM »
What Saban did this year is irrelevant to this discussion.This has nothing to do with entitlement.Did you actually read any of the previous explanations or were you too tired reaching for another beer?Again these arguments were raging 3 years ago on Buckeye Boards.I can tell you weren't really dialed into the situation.Why did Saban pull Jalen Hurts - and insert a true freshman in Tua under very smiliar circumstances a year later?The Coach had to at least try to adapt/adjust to the dilemma of being behind with a running QB - which he did.

  There is never,ever a  guarantee to get back there.Urbs stood pat the following season after he promised sweeping changes to the media/fans in the wake of the epic beatdown(he literally lied).Those writers/fans that thought it prudent Burrow/Haskins should at least see some snaps were right in retrospect.Because of obvious lapses in throwing the ball that Burrow/Haskins could have provided.And later obviously demonstrated which both you and Urbz can't see or won't acknowledge.But Urbz was paid to give the program a punchers chance - not stand pat on a pet project.

Urbz and Bill Clinton could both look right into a camera and tell  whoppers.His recruiting and understanding of quick strike offenses are 1st rate.His statements to the media and personnel decisions regarding coaches and players were many times suspect.



Let’s start from the top.

What Saban did isn’t really relevant to any discussion, but he’s trotted out as a point when any fan base wants to bench a QB. But a year later, he didn’t bench a QB, but that’s weirdly ignored because it implies what Saban did isn’t a way of being, but a rarer thing.

The idea Ohio State boards arguing it is meaningful is a good indication of not reading many board on your part. Here’s the thing, every fan base is arguing they should bench their starter for the shiny backup. They’re doing it in Georgia and South Carolina, Purdue and Wisconsin. It’s not special. It’s college football.

I respect he’s a liar. But I look at that puncher’s chance part. And it’s interesting because making the playoff isn’t a puncher’s chance. Because that’s the entitlement part. The 11-1 happens because you’re Ohio State. No respect that a kid put his body on the line to get there. Because it’s easier to play make believe that a kid who couldn’t pass a 135 QB rating as a junior was gonna put a dent in a Venables defense as a redshirt freshman. 

bayareabadger

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Re: OSU and reality
« Reply #162 on: October 30, 2019, 11:43:01 PM »


My point is that while he was very good, he was also somewhat limited in how far he could really take the offense. I would even speculate that had he NOT gotten injured in the last reg season game in 2014, tOSU may not have steamrolled Wisconsin and gotten into the playoffs. And had they managed to get in, the would have been steamrolled by Bama. Not because JT was not a good player but because he could not pop the top off the defense the way the Jones did.  Bama would have just loaded the box and dared JT to throw it downfield. He may have completed a couple here or there, but most likely would have thrown
So Nubbz commented on this and I wanted to answer, but this part is kinda the point, so this answers both this and his comment.

The argument that the offense really changed is interesting, but in the end, you look back, Jones got a good number of carries. It could’ve also been a particular group balled out and got a little ground down.

You’re arguing in an imaginary playoff, things might have gone differently. We’ve no way of knowing, but I actually agree. The thing is, if there’s no Barrett, OSU probably loses to MSU and hey, no national title. And we live in a world where a player can be key to a title and a year later, OSU fans are begging for Barrett. Life is weird and jagged and strange.

We cannot know what might’ve happened. We can pretend it would’ve turned out with all the titles because we’re wired to draw some satisfaction from the complaining. I’ll buy the Haskins stuff, less so the Burrow stuff. Redshirt sophomore Burrow is an unknown, one of a long line of QBs who were all-stars because they got no chance to prove otherwise.

MarqHusker

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Re: OSU and reality
« Reply #163 on: October 31, 2019, 12:05:23 AM »
I was in Boston recently, and out for a nightcap after a business event, and I sauntered into a BBQ joint in downtown Boston,  the place looked legit, the bartender was a Louisiana native, and I wasn't hungry, just a couple beers.  Anyways, what they were charging for BBQ, it was criminal  Obvs.  real estate commands such prices, but nobody should pay those prices for Q.  People getting robbed.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OSU and reality
« Reply #164 on: October 31, 2019, 05:08:29 AM »
Um try to stay on point.AGAIN Barret isn't in the top 25 in single season stats in the BIG.Why is that?The other guys have NFL contracts.Because for you my misguided correspondent JT padded stats surrounded by NFL talent vs overmatched opponents the team won inspite of him.Next thing you'll tell the congregation that he's better than Haskins and or Burrow who fans were inquiring about.That you in blissful ignorance miss.OBVIOUSLY those two deserved to be at least platooned.
Every OSU QB's stats are padded, being surrounded by NFL talent vs overmatched opponents.  Yet no one had the career he had.  And again, single-season passing yardage has got to be the most antiquated, erroneous gauge of how good a QB is you could possibly have cited.  It's much more of a sign that your team sucks and is behind a lot.  You know this.
He had 2 individual seasons of high-volume, 160+ passer ratings...basically the same as Troy Smith.  Heisman-winner Troy Smith.  Looking at it closer, Barrett's crime was basically having a great FR season and not repeating it until his SR season.  Ohhh, sorry!  


And again, you bring up NFL contracts.  If you honestly, genuinely cannot differentiate between college success and NFL potential, we can stop here.  UM's loyalty wasn't to Barrett, it was to his winning %.  He'd diagram a rub play facing his grandma in backyard football if it meant winning vs not winning.  He played Barrett over others for a reason.  You're pretending 2019 Burrow = 2017 Burrow, and that's obviously silly.  


OSU went 49-6 in Barrett's 4 seasons (not all games started by Barrett).  He was statistically the best passer in B10 history AND ran for as many TDs as Saquon Barkley and Ezekiel Elliott.  And you argue that the only reason he was on the field so much was blind, unwarranted loyalty.  Hell, I guess if UM threw one of those other guys out there, OSU would have easily gont 55-0 and they'd have 4 Heismans, right?



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MrNubbz

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Re: OSU and reality
« Reply #165 on: October 31, 2019, 07:39:26 AM »
Let’s start from the top.

What Saban did isn’t really relevant to any discussion, but he’s trotted out as a point when any fan base wants to bench a QB. But a year later, he didn’t bench a QB, but that’s weirdly ignored because it implies what Saban did isn’t a way of being, but a rarer thing.

The idea Ohio State boards arguing it is meaningful is a good indication of not reading many board on your part. Here’s the thing, every fan base is arguing they should bench their starter for the shiny backup. They’re doing it in Georgia and South Carolina, Purdue and Wisconsin. It’s not special. It’s college football.

I respect he’s a liar. But I look at that puncher’s chance part. And it’s interesting because making the playoff isn’t a puncher’s chance. Because that’s the entitlement part. The 11-1 happens because you’re Ohio State. No respect that a kid put his body on the line to get there. Because it’s easier to play make believe that a kid who couldn’t pass a 135 QB rating as a junior was gonna put a dent in a Venables defense as a redshirt freshman. 
I don't expect much from you and you never fail to disappoint You paint with a wide brush and expect it to be taken as gospel.Many kids made ohio states record possible,and many of them are employed on Sundays.JT played football he's not marching off to war.So save the he put his body on the line bullshit .You competely ignore the points about Haskins/Burrow.Other teams didn't have those two sitting behind an arm punter.You comparing roses to ragweed.You've not watched or read about anything presented except what you pull out of your very dank crevasse.Saban didn't stand pat and played a freshman quarterback -that's a fair comparison.Meyer just kept trying the same broken thing - with out trying.If you can't see that I can't help you.By Einsteins definition - that's insanity.Meyer trotted out the very same thing that just failed entirely on CFB biggest stage 4 months later in spring ball.NOB laid it out pretty simple for you and both Haskins & Burrow have amply demonstrated what Buckeye fans were inquiring about.I've never said JT or any other student athlete "sucks"I did point out there were what turned out to be better options that Urban Meyer at 5 million a year chose not take.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2019, 08:24:36 AM by MrNubbz »
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Cincydawg

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Re: OSU and reality
« Reply #166 on: October 31, 2019, 07:41:09 AM »
I was in Boston recently, and out for a nightcap after a business event, and I sauntered into a BBQ joint in downtown Boston,  the place looked legit, the bartender was a Louisiana native, and I wasn't hungry, just a couple beers.  Anyways, what they were charging for BBQ, it was criminal  Obvs.  real estate commands such prices, but nobody should pay those prices for Q.  People getting robbed.

Yeah, it's the real estate there.  We found some places in the 'burbs that were reasonably priced (not Q).  Gas prices here can vary from $2.99 to $2.49 with a separation of about a mile, usually the high priced one is on the freeway.  Some of that is gouging of course.  

Urban Meyer IMHO was a very good coach.  I personally wouldn't second guess him, I don't know enough, but I guess that's what we do as fans.

MrNubbz

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Re: OSU and reality
« Reply #167 on: October 31, 2019, 07:43:01 AM »
Every OSU QB's stats are padded, being surrounded by NFL talent vs overmatched opponents.  Yet no one had the career he had.  And again, single-season passing yardage has got to be the most antiquated, erroneous gauge of how good a QB is you could possibly have cited.  It's much more of a sign that your team sucks and is behind a lot.  You know this.
He had 2 individual seasons of high-volume, 160+ passer ratings...basically the same as Troy Smith.  Heisman-winner Troy Smith.  Looking at it closer, Barrett's crime was basically having a great FR season and not repeating it until his SR season.  Ohhh, sorry! 


And again, you bring up NFL contracts.  If you honestly, genuinely cannot differentiate between college success and NFL potential, we can stop here.  UM's loyalty wasn't to Barrett, it was to his winning %.  He'd diagram a rub play facing his grandma in backyard football if it meant winning vs not winning.  He played Barrett over others for a reason.  You're pretending 2019 Burrow = 2017 Burrow, and that's obviously silly. 


OSU went 49-6 in Barrett's 4 seasons (not all games started by Barrett).  He was statistically the best passer in B10 history AND ran for as many TDs as Saquon Barkley and Ezekiel Elliott.  And you argue that the only reason he was on the field so much was blind, unwarranted loyalty.  Hell, I guess if UM threw one of those other guys out there, OSU would have easily gont 55-0 and they'd have 4 Heismans, right?



Settle down, Beano.
Get it together kid. Grow up. Get a life. Stop being a burden on society.Why don't you go play your little college football game that no one is interested in - thicko.You're wrong UFM had a man crush on JT.You and BAB win Haskins and Burrow both SUCK HAPPY?
« Last Edit: October 31, 2019, 08:26:14 AM by MrNubbz »
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