header pic

The B12 (XII) Forum, home of the 'Front Porch, y'all' at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: Blue Skies Ahead for the Crimson and Cream?

 (Read 23970 times)

CWSooner

  • Team Captain
  • *******
  • Posts: 6128
  • Liked:
Re: Blue Skies Ahead for the Crimson and Cream?
« Reply #56 on: November 28, 2022, 02:39:02 PM »
OU's 2008 NC game vs. Florida was bizarro-world.  Both teams showed up kind of the opposite of their regular season m.o.  Their opponent's had something to do with that, of course, but it was still strange to watch.

What do OU fans consider winnable about those games?  Or to put it another way, what opportunities were missed that would've lead to different outcomes?
For the LSU game, at the end, OU was moving the ball effectively ON THE GROUND toward what would have been the tying TD. LSU's defense seemed gassed, and even the TV guys noted it. So, we got down inside the 20 and decided that we had to pass the ball. Our last 10 plays of the game were 10 incomplete passes. There was a DPI penalty in there, so we got four more chances. And the last two were in the waning seconds after we held LSU and got the ball back. And, of course, there was the infamous pregame "spying" controversy involving Saban.

Against Florida, in the first half we got stoned twice on possessions that got near or inside the Gator 10-yard line. Unimaginative play-calling from OC Kevin "Hack" Wilson. He was going to score his way or not at all. Not at all, both times, as it turned out. No points.

I'm not asserting that OU was the better team and/or deserved to win those games. But they were games that could have gone either way, and obviously some choices that the offensive cases didn't work out well either time.
Play Like a Champion Today

CWSooner

  • Team Captain
  • *******
  • Posts: 6128
  • Liked:
Re: Blue Skies Ahead for the Crimson and Cream?
« Reply #57 on: November 28, 2022, 02:49:44 PM »
Auburn's 2004 team is the prime reason why I'm all in favor of expanding the playoff in general.  4 teams are OK, 8 would be best. . . .
Most CFB fans seem to agree with you, but I've never understood the logic.
If 4 teams are better than 2, and 8 teams are better than 4, why would 16 teams not be better than 8?
What is the limiting factor that says that more than 8 would be too many?
I opposed going to 4 because I knew it would lead to 8. Or more. And that was the intent all along. The advocates of 4 for lying through their teeth when they said that they had no intent to go beyond that. Just like medical marijuana advocates always say that they are not in favor of legalizing recreational marijuana.
And what will make us stop at 12? Some year, some favorite team is going to be left out at #13, and there will be another outcry against the wrongness of it all.
We're paving paradise to put up a parking lot.
Personally, I'd go back to bowls-and-polls if I were King of CFB.
I actually liked the early BCS system a lot, but crying about RUTS meant that the computers had to be dumbed down, and USC being left out in 2003 and Auburn feeling shafted in 2004 ultimately led to expanding to 4 teams.

Play Like a Champion Today

Gigem

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2261
  • Liked:
Re: Blue Skies Ahead for the Crimson and Cream?
« Reply #58 on: November 28, 2022, 09:38:54 PM »
I get it. Lots of nostalgia. But the fact is that certain teams benefitted from the old system, and OU is one of them. 

Literally nobody else that plays a team sport decides their champion this way. 

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18440
  • Liked:
Re: Blue Skies Ahead for the Crimson and Cream?
« Reply #59 on: November 28, 2022, 11:23:44 PM »
I get it. Lots of nostalgia. But the fact is that certain teams benefitted from the old system, and OU is one of them.

Literally nobody else that plays a team sport decides their champion this way.
Sure but really who cares?  Not all team sports decide their champion with a large playoff, either.

For example, many European soccer leagues like the EPL decide their champions with a set regular season and no playoffs whatsoever.  There are plenty of ways to skin a cat.

A large part of the uniqueness of D1-A/FBS college football was that its postseason was different.  As college football trends more and more toward just being an NFL clone, I find myself becoming less and less interested in it.  And it's not like I'm the only one, college football attendance is falling all over the country.  People are checking out because one of the things they LIKED about college football, is that it WASN'T exactly like the NFL.

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 39088
  • Liked:
Re: Blue Skies Ahead for the Crimson and Cream?
« Reply #60 on: November 29, 2022, 08:53:26 AM »
if everyone else jumps off the bridge, is it a good idea?
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Gigem

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2261
  • Liked:
Re: Blue Skies Ahead for the Crimson and Cream?
« Reply #61 on: November 29, 2022, 09:20:49 AM »
Most CFB fans seem to agree with you, but I've never understood the logic.
If 4 teams are better than 2, and 8 teams are better than 4, why would 16 teams not be better than 8?
What is the limiting factor that says that more than 8 would be too many?
I opposed going to 4 because I knew it would lead to 8. Or more. And that was the intent all along. The advocates of 4 for lying through their teeth when they said that they had no intent to go beyond that. Just like medical marijuana advocates always say that they are not in favor of legalizing recreational marijuana.
And what will make us stop at 12? Some year, some favorite team is going to be left out at #13, and there will be another outcry against the wrongness of it all.
We're paving paradise to put up a parking lot.
Personally, I'd go back to bowls-and-polls if I were King of CFB.
I actually liked the early BCS system a lot, but crying about RUTS meant that the computers had to be dumbed down, and USC being left out in 2003 and Auburn feeling shafted in 2004 ultimately led to expanding to 4 teams.

I guess it’s all just opinions. But I think it’s reasonable to say that “ x teams have made the cut to get into the post season”. Let’s call it the top 10%. So since there are about 130 D1 teams, that puts you at 13 teams. So you cut it down to 12, for an even number. 

12 teams out of ~130 seems reasonable. Most will have 1-2 losses, a couple will have 3. Why should LSU, with 2 losses, be national champions one year while plenty of other teams with one loss or no losses be excluded? 

It’s because the NCAA does not award a national champion. Sports writers do. At least, they did up until the CFP came about. I’m not even sure if they do award one now. 

As much as I despise teams like UCF or TCU who haven’t played anybody they deserve a real chance to play for a real title. Texas in 2008 deserved to play for a title. The Penn State team that went undefeated. 

I can’t make this anymore clear, I just want it decided on the field, not by sportswriters and public opinion. 

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 39088
  • Liked:
Re: Blue Skies Ahead for the Crimson and Cream?
« Reply #62 on: November 29, 2022, 09:28:30 AM »
deserves has got nuttin to do with it
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

MikeDeTiger

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2990
  • Liked:
Re: Blue Skies Ahead for the Crimson and Cream?
« Reply #63 on: November 29, 2022, 09:59:33 AM »
I get it. Lots of nostalgia. But the fact is that certain teams benefitted from the old system, and OU is one of them.

Literally nobody else that plays a team sport decides their champion this way.

But the general idea is that a playoff provides a "true" champion.  It provides a playoff winner, nothing more, and that's for every sport that decides a champion that way.  The idea that a playoff gives us a "true greatest team of the season" is a flawed one.  

Ergo, give me the chaos over the ignorant masses being deluded into thinking we have crowned a worthy be-all, end-all for the year.  

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18440
  • Liked:
Re: Blue Skies Ahead for the Crimson and Cream?
« Reply #64 on: November 29, 2022, 10:27:37 AM »
I guess it’s all just opinions. But I think it’s reasonable to say that “ x teams have made the cut to get into the post season”. Let’s call it the top 10%. So since there are about 130 D1 teams, that puts you at 13 teams. So you cut it down to 12, for an even number.

12 teams out of ~130 seems reasonable. Most will have 1-2 losses, a couple will have 3. Why should LSU, with 2 losses, be national champions one year while plenty of other teams with one loss or no losses be excluded?

It’s because the NCAA does not award a national champion. Sports writers do. At least, they did up until the CFP came about. I’m not even sure if they do award one now.

As much as I despise teams like UCF or TCU who haven’t played anybody they deserve a real chance to play for a real title. Texas in 2008 deserved to play for a title. The Penn State team that went undefeated.

I can’t make this anymore clear, I just want it decided on the field, not by sportswriters and public opinion.

No you're correct-- the NCAA does not award a national championship in FBS football.  The CFP is not associated with the NCAA in any way, other than the teams participating in the CFP, are also NCAA members.  And they have agreed to use the NCAA rulebook for their contests.

longhorn320

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 9573
  • Liked:
Re: Blue Skies Ahead for the Crimson and Cream?
« Reply #65 on: November 29, 2022, 11:02:54 AM »


As much as I despise teams like UCF or TCU who haven’t played anybody they deserve a real chance to play for a real title. Texas in 2008 deserved to play for a title. The Penn State team that went undefeated.

I can’t make this anymore clear, I just want it decided on the field, not by sportswriters and public opinion.
Which Penn State team would that be? Was it 1969?
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

Gigem

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2261
  • Liked:
Re: Blue Skies Ahead for the Crimson and Cream?
« Reply #66 on: November 29, 2022, 11:12:51 AM »
I confess that I didn’t start watching CFB until 1996, my freshman year at A&M. But I thought there was a highly controversial season, maybe 1994 or some such, that PSU went undefeated but got left out. 

I’m sure one of you old bastages will chime in. 

Gigem

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2261
  • Liked:
Re: Blue Skies Ahead for the Crimson and Cream?
« Reply #67 on: November 29, 2022, 11:20:07 AM »
But the general idea is that a playoff provides a "true" champion.  It provides a playoff winner, nothing more, and that's for every sport that decides a champion that way.  The idea that a playoff gives us a "true greatest team of the season" is a flawed one. 

Ergo, give me the chaos over the ignorant masses being deluded into thinking we have crowned a worthy be-all, end-all for the year. 
Me personally I always thought the team that won was the better one. But under the old system it’s just whatever team you THINK is better. Not the team that actually wins. 

I’m just not ok with CFB mostly being a popularity contest. But that’s just me. Seems like a lot of folks like it that way. 

It’s looking like more people agree with me, thus the 12 team playoff. And we’ll all still watch, and maybe over time some interesting and exciting matchups will happen. Both in the regular season and the post season. 

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18440
  • Liked:
Re: Blue Skies Ahead for the Crimson and Cream?
« Reply #68 on: November 29, 2022, 11:24:34 AM »
I don't think you can say we'll "all" watch.  I haven't watched a single CFP championship game, and I only caught one or two of the semifinal games, when they were on a sensible day like New Year's or something.  I have little interest in the new format, and I'll find a 12-team playoff to be even less compelling.

Obviously I'd watch if Texas were ever in it, but that doesn't seem to be a likely scenario anytime soon.

longhorn320

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 9573
  • Liked:
Re: Blue Skies Ahead for the Crimson and Cream?
« Reply #69 on: November 29, 2022, 11:36:40 AM »
I confess that I didn’t start watching CFB until 1996, my freshman year at A&M. But I thought there was a highly controversial season, maybe 1994 or some such, that PSU went undefeated but got left out.

I’m sure one of you old bastages will chime in.
In 1969 Texas finished the season ranked number 1 and Penn St which was undefeated number 2

An invitation was extended to JoPa and his Penn St team to come to the Cotton Bowl and play for the National Championship

As was his custom Paterno allowed his Penn St team to vote on it and they elected to go to the Orange Bowl instead of playing UT for the National Championship.

It was then that a second invite went to Ara Parseghian and his Notre Dame team and they accepted

When UT beat Notre Dame and won the NC Paterno stated UT couldnt have driven 70 yards on the ground twice against them as it had ND which created a very humorous situation
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.