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Topic: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.

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CWSooner

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #5460 on: March 27, 2024, 04:24:08 PM »
French C3--command, control, & communications--were terrible compared to that of the Germans.

One example concerns the French S35 medium tank--a better tank than its German opponents. Except that only the commanders had radios in their tanks. Tank-to-tank communication had to be done with visual signals, which meant that their tanks could not fight "buttoned-up."

Obsolete, static thinking like that--up and down the chain of command--is part of the French failure. Overconfidence verging on arrogance was another. Moral collapse was yet another.
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Cincydawg

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #5461 on: March 27, 2024, 04:39:48 PM »
My reading is that the French wanted to fight purely on the defensive so as to cost the Germans high casualties, and in Belgium instead of France.  This dictated their strategic thinking, find a defensible position and hold it, in Belgium.  As you know, the initial German plan was the Schlieffen Plan 2 basically, but they feared the plans were captured, and Manstein, a junior general, offered this new plan.

The French also had nothing equivalent to an armored division, their tanks were more spread out and diluted, so they couldn't pose any offensive threat adequately.  The one British counterattack gave Rommel quite the scare, but was insufficient.  The French just couldn't think offensively at all, it seems to me.

CWSooner

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #5462 on: March 27, 2024, 06:21:54 PM »
I read somewhere after about three months of combat in the 'canal, 87% of the Marines had malaria, and most were ruled combat unready, when the Army replaced them.

Amphibious assaults are very often disasters, I'll be visiting the ANZAC invasion beaches of Turkey (Gallipoli) in September. 

Landing at Anzac Cove - Wikipedia

The US Army of course pulled off several in Europe with essentially no Marine presence (maybe a handul of observers) that all went fairly well in comparison.  This of course was meant to be a Marine specialty.

Don't  get me started on Pelelilu.
Mass production of Penicillin was a product of WWII. Even midway through the war, Atabrine--taken prophylactically--was the primary anti-malarial drug.
Here's a wartime sign from New Guinea.



Cool that you're visiting the Gallipoli beaches. The only invasion beaches I've visited are on Attu. The Battle of Attu isn't well-known, but it was the second-bloodiest fight of the Pacific War in terms of casualty rate. Iwo Jima is #1, I believe.
Yeah, Peleliu. A botch of an invasion that, as it turned out, wasn't even necessary.
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Cincydawg

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #5463 on: March 27, 2024, 06:49:34 PM »
I’ve visited Omaha and Utah if that counts as two, plus Okinawa (which was uninteresting so far as the beach) and Incheon (completely urban now).  

CWSooner

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #5464 on: March 27, 2024, 07:14:56 PM »
My reading is that the French wanted to fight purely on the defensive so as to cost the Germans high casualties, and in Belgium instead of France.  This dictated their strategic thinking, find a defensible position and hold it, in Belgium.  As you know, the initial German plan was the Schlieffen Plan 2 basically, but they feared the plans were captured, and Manstein, a junior general, offered this new plan.

The French also had nothing equivalent to an armored division, their tanks were more spread out and diluted, so they couldn't pose any offensive threat adequately.  The one British counterattack gave Rommel quite the scare, but was insufficient.  The French just couldn't think offensively at all, it seems to me.
So, the initial problem was that the French guessed wrong on where the Germans would strike. But, compounding that, they took an inordinate time adjusting. The Germans were always several steps ahead of the French.
In John Boyd terminology, the Germans went through the OODA loop much more quickly than the French did.
And, yeah, the French consistently thought in defensive terms. Tried to be ready to receive the blow rather than delivering one.
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CWSooner

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #5465 on: March 27, 2024, 07:21:19 PM »
I’ve visited Omaha and Utah if that counts as two, plus Okinawa (which was uninteresting so far as the beach) and Incheon (completely urban now).
I lived in Okinawa as a kid, but I didn't know about any invasion beaches.
I forgot about Inchon. When I was in Korea, 8th Army Special Troops (EAST) had a professional development program of battlefield tours. They called them staff rides, but they weren't. Anyway, we did one of Inchon. It was, as you noted, urban. Nothing like what it was in 1950. Another one of those battles was Gloster Hill, where the Brits fought as part of the Battle of Imjin River in April 1951. The British Gloucestershire Regiment fought completely surrounded. Since then, they have worn two cap badges, one on the front and one on the back.
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Cincydawg

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #5466 on: March 28, 2024, 06:05:25 AM »
We ported in Incheon, I was sort of interested in seeing those tidal flats and whatnot.  Nyet.

Seoul today amazed me.

The DMZ amazed me as well.  A real war there would be ... unbelievable.


CWSooner

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #5467 on: March 28, 2024, 04:39:57 PM »
Here's what I think about when I think about Inchon.



Lieutenant Baldomero Lopez of the Marine Corps is shown scaling a seawall after landing on Red Beach (September 15). Minutes after this photo was taken, Lopez was killed after covering a live grenade with his body. He was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor.

The citation reads:


Quote
For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty as a Marine platoon commander of Company A, [1st Battalion, 5th Marines, 1st Marine Division (Reinforced)] in action against enemy aggressor forces. With his platoon 1st Lt. Lopez was engaged in the reduction of immediate enemy beach defenses after landing with the assault waves. Exposing himself to hostile fire, he moved forward alongside a bunker and prepared to throw a hand grenade into the next pillbox whose fire was pinning down that sector of the beach. Taken under fire by an enemy automatic weapon and hit in the right shoulder and chest as he lifted his arm to throw, he fell backward and dropped the deadly missile. After a moment, he turned and dragged his body forward in an effort to retrieve the grenade and throw it. In critical condition from pain and loss of blood, and unable to grasp the hand grenade firmly enough to hurl it, he chose to sacrifice himself rather than endanger the lives of his men and, with a sweeping motion of his wounded right arm, cradled the grenade under him and absorbed the full impact of the explosion. His exceptional courage, fortitude, and devotion to duty reflect the highest credit upon 1st Lt. Lopez and the U.S. Naval Service. He gallantly gave his life for his country.


Lopez was a 1947 graduate of the USNA.

In 2-1/2 months, A/1/5 Marines would be fighting for its life just west of the Chosin Reservoir.
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longhorn320

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #5468 on: March 28, 2024, 05:06:03 PM »
you guys been watching the Hitler channel too much
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

Cincydawg

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #5469 on: April 14, 2024, 07:19:49 AM »
The Chosin Frozen.  Attacking in a different direction.

 

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