The B12 (XII) Forum, home of the 'Front Porch, y'all' at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

Gigem:

I think Brent Venables is a good man, but I'm wondering if he is going to be one of those guys who is a fantastic coordinator but fails as a head coach. Both of Jimmy Johnson's coordinators at Dallas fit that bill. Dave Wannstedt was the DC, and he failed wherever he went to be the HFC. Norv Turner was the OC, and he also failed. We'll just have to see how the rest of the season plays out.

But, regardless, Lincoln was on a downhill coast at OU. Every season a little worse than the one before, culminating with last year's team that could just as easily gone 8-5 as 11-2. Also, he was dissatisfied with how slowly some staff/facility upgrades he had requested were being met, and he did not want to go to the SEC. Apparently, he did not come clean with the A.D., did not make it clear that he was not happy, but he did start looking for places to jump, and he let his agent circulate his name and interest. Ultimately, he chose USC over LSU.

I read a piece a week ago--after the debacle at TCU--by Pete Thamel, IIRC. He said that OU hasn't taken the necessary steps to do more than just make it to the CFP because OU has been good-or-better for over 20 years now. So there has been no great cry to fix what's wrong. OU has thought it just needed to tweak things a bit and the Sooners could win in the playoffs. All the other current top teams (except for Ohio State, which hasn't been "bad" in 100 years) have gone through some painful, even losing, seasons. Bama under Mike Shula, for example. So, if all that is legitimate analysis, then maybe OU has to experience some real pain (as opposed to the disappointment of 1st-round losses in the CFP) before it can really get to the level of Bama, TOSU, and (currently) Georgia.

There's an old admonition to not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. But maybe OU has let the good-or-better be an excuse for not pursuing the very, very good.

We'll see. There's no guarantee that BV will succeed. My personal belief is that he needs two new coordinators. I have viewed them as potential weak links from the start, and I think that events are proving that worry to be justified.

Your Aggies just played Bama to a scoreless tie after one quarter, so maybe there is no whipping coming tonight.

Ultimately, he chose USC over LSU.

Smart choice

Right now I'd have to rate Muleshoe as better than Salina, but things can change.

I suspect a repeat of this year would have a large chunk of the fan-base howling for Brent Venables' head.

Brent inherited a program in some turmoil due to Muleshoe's sudden departure, 3 key players following to USC, including Caleb Williams, and some other key recruits who decommitted and likewise went to USC or to other destinations. But there was some good talent left, and a serviceable QB--Dillon Gabriel--transferred in via the portal. And it's hard to see much improvement in the team from the UTEP opener to the TTU finale. From the first loss to the last one, this was a team that found ways to lose when victory was possible or even probable.

By contrast, Bob Stoops--who had never been a head coach, inherited an outright broken program in which the outgoing coach (John Blake of "I thank Jesus Christ for this victory over Texas" fame) had told the black players that he was being fired for his color and had destroyed the recruiting files so that the new regime had to start from scratch. Bob went 7-4 in the regular season before losing to Ole Miss on a last-second FG in the Independence Bowl. And he played a tougher schedule than what Brent faced this year, I think.

Despite being over a decade younger when he took over the OU program than Brent was, Bob was more ready to be a head coach, IMO. I hope that Brent has learned a lot of lessons over the course of this season and can successfully apply them. Another 6-6 showing won't cut it. I don't think he would get fired after 2 seasons, but he probably would have to make major changes to his staff. My nominee for first to see the door would be OC Jeff Lebby. His hurry-up offense (the only thing he seems to know how to run) does not complement a defense trying to learn different, and much more complex, defensive schemes. And he does not seem to have a play in the book to get 2 yards when you absolutely have to have 2 yards.

Bob Stoops was a helluva coach, no doubt one of the best ever. Amazing that despite all his success and the talent he had at OU he only managed to win one MNC, in the second season. He definitely owned the Big 12.

I still believe that the original Big 12 was a helluva conference, equal or better than any other conference from 1996 to about 2009. It had 3 blue chip programs, two or three top 20 programs, and some really good football played over the years.

Yes, Stoops was a great coach. The big flaw in his record is the 1-3 record in NCGs.
It should have been 2-2 or 3-1.
I can't explain the Sooners' collapse against USC in the 2004 (season) NCG, but I do believe that that Sooner teams was not going to beat that Trojan team on that day no matter how the ball bounced.
But opportunities were blown vs. LSU (2003) and Florida (2008). Both of those games could have been wins. At least one of them should have been.
I agree with your assessment of the original Big 12. In hindsight, it seems like there was unhappiness and instability from the start, but the on-field product was as good as it got in CFB for that period. National championships won by Nebraska, OU, and Texas, and NC-caliber teams from A&M and K-State. Also some really good teams from Colorado, Missouri, Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech. Even Kansas won an Orange Bowl game.

hah, just dredgin up painful memories

While I have some sympathy for Auburn (by which I mean, I have zero sympathy for them, ever) in 2004, it's worth pointing out that in their entire division, only LSU had a winning record.  The SECwest was hot garbage in 2004 and AU did not have an amazing schedule.  

I'm confident if Auburn had gotten to play USC, they have gotten shellacked similar to OU.  They did have a few schematic things in their favor that could've made for a better game....maybe.  Those old Pete Carroll defenses were susceptible to more pro-style attacks, offenses that utilized the backs and tight ends more, which Campbell did during his final year.  Still, SC that night unveiled what would become their 2005 offense, and their defense was one of the best of the Carroll era.  I get AU not getting a chance to "prove it" but I think the BCS got that one right.  Just as I think it got it right in 2003.  2003 SC was not 2004 SC, and would've lost to either OU or LSU.