~Soccer Thread~

[SFBadger96]

To be fair to parents, we all want our kids to succeed. When the world around us is telling us our kid is awesome at something, we're inclined to listen. When we're told our kid is awesome, and this is what a kid who is awesome at this should do -- and others like him/her do it -- it is hard to say no, especially to our child who wants to do what the other awesome kids (whom he or she knows well) do.

Right now, the kids who are awesome at some sport often join these leagues, and it's the rare(-ish) parent who says no. More common is the parent who endures a couple of years of the demands of it and just decides it isn't worth it (whether for financial or other reasons), but I'm always particularly proud of the parents I know who say no from the outset. But when your great player joins a club, is awesome, and wants to keep being awesome, all the while learning some good life lessons, it's hard to say no. And the cycle continues.

In and of itself, the cycle of rewarding and promoting great players isn't the problem. The problem is there's plenty of money to be made capitalizing on the perception that a kid is great, or *just that close* if only they get a little boost. A parent and their money are soon parted. And it's hard for parents to recognize where they fall prey to the financial interests that aren't in their/their child's interest. The overspecialization and over commitment in youth sports is all about money. But its parents who pay those bills, so only parents can reverse the trend.

[ELA]

My son is now old enough to start T-Ball this summer, and I was toying with the diea of helping coach.  The level of background and coaching clearances now makes me not want to do it.  I get the background checks, those are necessary.  But I have to be a Level 3 USA Baseball certified instructor to help out a bunch of 5 and 6 year olds playing T-Ball?  My dad coached our baseball team until I was probably 10 based on the qualifications that he played HS baseball, and was willing to do it.  It just seems all way to serious at a way too young age.

Walter Mathau's character sure as shit wouldn't be coaching today.

[MarqHusker]

That's ridiculous.   Talk about spooking away otherwise enthusiastic parents.   That would make me so angry.

For volleyball, where I'm sure the pool of parents who know the game is much smaller than baseball, the only mandatory requirement (besides the background check) was to attend a 90 minute orientation with the local HS coaches who demonstrated the things to emphasize.   It was perfectly appropriate.

[ELA]

That's ridiculous.   Talk about spooking away otherwise enthusiastic parents.   That would make me so angry.

For volleyball, where I'm sure the pool of parents who know the game is much smaller than baseball, the only mandatory requirement (besides the background check) was to attend a 90 minute orientation with the local HS coaches who demonstrated the things to emphasize.   It was perfectly appropriate.

Yeah my guess is baseball can afford to be more selective, but why?  Since he's our oldest, it's our first year in the system, so I'll probably sit this one out anyway, but I'm not spending the time to take all of those classes, nor should I.  I can teach fundamentals just as well as any of the "unqualified" parents have been forever.  I'm sure having some overqualified guy who peaked as an All-Regional HS selection, and is now living through coaching 8 year olds, none of whom are his kids, is really going to help this generation love the game.

[MarqHusker]

Kids should be coaching 1st base too, not the parents.   Keeps their head in the game.

We have teens handle all of the officiating and line judging in vball.  Very sensible.

sorry to hijack the soccer thread with LL talk.   That gives me a yellow card, no?  I'll admit I played one season of soccer as a youth and stopped, once I could play football.   I helped volunteer with my kids in their one and only soccer season.    It is organized to death, but there seems to be a pretty clear division between the 'rec league' and these 'travel' squads.

[SFBadger96]

Kids should be coaching 1st base too, not the parents.   Keeps their head in the game.

We have teens handle all of the officiating and line judging in vball.  Very sensible.

sorry to hijack the soccer thread with LL talk.   That gives me a yellow card, no?  I'll admit I played one season of soccer as a youth and stopped, once I could play football.   I helped volunteer with my kids in their one and only soccer season.    It is organized to death, but there seems to be a pretty clear division between the 'rec league' and these 'travel' squads.

I've been feeling a little guilty about derailing things, too, but hey, my daughter has a soccer game tomorrow morning... (yes, outdoors; that's how California rolls).
ELA, 6 is really young to play any form of baseball. Yes, the leagues run t-ball at that age, but in my view, having had my kids in baseball and softball up through 12U, it's the very, very rare kid who gets anything other than run-around time in 6-year old baseball. These are skill (not effort) based games, and very few kids are even close to being able to reliably catch and throw the ball at 6-years old, let alone process even the basics of baseball strategy. Physical fine motor development is so steep in that age range that a 7-year old might get something out of it, but a kid who is athletic and starts at age 8, won't have missed anything by skipping two years of silliness. The silliness includes tons of parents and coaches yelling to try to get Johnny to make the right play because virtually none of the kids understand the game. And the yelling is a terrible way to teach. So silliness. Seriously.
If they start at 8, It will take them 3-4 weeks to catch up on the basics, and if they have been watching any baseball on TV with you, or playing any catch with you, it won't even take that. Unless you are just looking for a place to park your kid for a couple of hours a week (and there's nothing wrong with that--though there are other options), consider taking a pass on it for another year or two.
The biggest downside I can think of to waiting is that a lot of these leagues (maybe all?) have little cabals of the "in" parents/volunteers, and that drives a lot of the all-star/select season opportunities. If your kid is a superstar it won't matter, but if he's borderline, it makes a difference. But this gets back to my earlier comments about parents as the problem in youth sports. So if you look forward to sacrificing your summers to travel baseball from age 9 through whenever (and while that sounded pejorative, there are lots of people who have a lot of fun doing it; some are very good friends of mine), you might consider making sure you get into that crowd earlier--but still, 6 is too early to worry about it. Unfortunately 7 isn't. Silly.

As for coaching standards, different organizations handle training differently. In our softball league, the theory was to get everyone trained up, then just do some easy maintenance as you move up levels. Our soccer league is the opposite: shorter training for younger ages, but pretty significant training commitments as you move up levels. Our baseball league (which isn't Little League, but operates very similarly) is a hybrid. I prefer the way our soccer league does it, but there are pluses and minuses.

[rolltidefan]

some good news, dual national timothy tillman set to make switch from germany to usmnt.

link

[rook119]

My son is now old enough to start T-Ball this summer, and I was toying with the diea of helping coach.  The level of background and coaching clearances now makes me not want to do it.  I get the background checks, those are necessary.  But I have to be a Level 3 USA Baseball certified instructor to help out a bunch of 5 and 6 year olds playing T-Ball?  My dad coached our baseball team until I was probably 10 based on the qualifications that he played HS baseball, and was willing to do it.  It just seems all way to serious at a way too young age.

Walter Mathau's character sure as crap wouldn't be coaching today.

My dad coached T-shirt league (8-9 year olds), the qualifications were: do you want to coach T-shirt ball? Then OK here's a team. 
I was the 1st or 3rd base coach at age 10 and while I don't even remember anyone ever listening to me I had a blast (we were good too!). The other base coach was a random parent or one of the players. Yes all kids should do this. 
 

[Entropy]

I grew up on a farm..  when it was time to get the wiggles out or exercise, there was plenty to do.   I would help dad make fence, pick rocks out of the field for a drive way to a new shed, walk beans.... lots to do.

I now live in the suburbs and to me, sports is that exercise.   I want my kids to enjoy it, but frankly, the what doesn't matter.   In fact, we want them in something physical and something fine arts.   It is more about being active and having some skills that allow you to do things as an adult.   We have no illusions of our genetic code leading to scholarship offers.  

As a parent, we've found our kids would be doing more if we didn't say no.   A friend is trying out for basketball... I want to play too.   The "want" is about hanging out with friends.   But that "want" can also make a kid feel... well, not like a kid.  So I also understand how easily parents can one day say "how did we get here?".   I personally think it's key parents step back and look at what the overall picture every once in a while... just because it is too easy to see the trees and not the forest.  

[rolltidefan]

well said, entropy.

[SFBadger96]

My dad coached T-shirt league (8-9 year olds), the qualifications were: do you want to coach T-shirt ball? Then OK here's a team.

 

While I appreciate the sentiment, in a world in which we know that most child abuse (sexual and otherwise) comes from authority figure adults in children's lives, and no insurance company will pay the bill for a child's injury without first enquiring whether it was someone's fault and attempting to shift financial responsibility, no local sports board can afford to operate this way today.
In some sense it's a shame, but there have always been bad actors, and better to steer our children away from them. Doing a background check isn't much of a burden, and having proper insurance is imperative.

[ELA]

While I appreciate the sentiment, in a world in which we know that most child abuse (sexual and otherwise) comes from authority figure adults in children's lives, and no insurance company will pay the bill for a child's injury without first enquiring whether it was someone's fault and attempting to shift financial responsibility, no local sports board can afford to operate this way today.
In some sense it's a shame, but there have always been bad actors, and better to steer our children away from them. Doing a background check isn't much of a burden, and having proper insurance is imperative.

Right, as I said, I don't mind the background check part.

[rolltidefan]

While I appreciate the sentiment, in a world in which we know that most child abuse (sexual and otherwise) comes from authority figure adults in children's lives, and no insurance company will pay the bill for a child's injury without first enquiring whether it was someone's fault and attempting to shift financial responsibility, no local sports board can afford to operate this way today.
In some sense it's a shame, but there have always been bad actors, and better to steer our children away from them. Doing a background check isn't much of a burden, and having proper insurance is imperative.

maybe it's alabama being behind the times or something, but we pretty much operate that way still. i am unaware of any background checks run on me, and i've coached my kids for the last 3 seasons. my brother and brother-in-law have similar experiences (baseball and soccer leagues). not that i'm opposed to it.

however, they are pretty tight with regards to organization. everything, including practice times and locations, meetings, and obviously games, are schedules by the league. and while it's not an official rule of the league, it's understood and expressly encouraged to not just drop your kids off and leave. in the 3 years and 30-someodd kids i've coached, only once has a parent done that, and they informed me and had good reason and were back before we had our mid practice break. i've actually been pleasantly surprised with the parents' involvement.

[ELA]

maybe it's alabama being behind the times or something, but we pretty much operate that way still. i am unaware of any background checks run on me, and i've coached my kids for the last 3 seasons. my brother and brother-in-law have similar experiences (baseball and soccer leagues). not that i'm opposed to it.

I mean, considering the recent Senate election, I'm sure a joke about Alabama's concern (or lack thereof) over background checks and contact with minors is there to be made, but out of fear of driving this thing even farther off course...

As to the no drop off thing, my kids are young enough that I would never consider it yet, but I imagine at some point wouldn't you WANT no parents at practice?  I think by the time I was 9, my parents just dropped me off for basketball and soccer practice (baseball was different with my dad coaching).  I would think having them at pracitce leads to kids looking to their parents, not the coach, and might make the coach hesitant to coach up the kids too much with dad looking on.