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Topic: Your vote for Hypesman?

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bayareabadger

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Re: Your vote for Hypesman?
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2020, 08:29:15 PM »
Didn't Bama actually lose their top receiver earlier in the season and this kid emerged?
Emerged is strong. He had 1,256 yards last year and stayed for some reason, but the other kid had 557 yards in four games. 

bayareabadger

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Re: Your vote for Hypesman?
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2020, 08:38:26 PM »
Yeah, I know there's plenty of variables.  I just don't like the randomness of it.  Smith is great, he's having a great season, but it seems almost arbitrary that he's getting love and some absolute dominant baller WRs have been largely ignored.  It's just lame.
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I feel you on the arbitrariness. I actually think the reason is somewhat simple. 

He's a candidate who is lapping the field at his position in a year where there isn't a guy where everything is coming together at RB and QB.

If you look at him, he's 300 yards and 14 catches ahead of the field (and was still ahead of the field before an extra game). Like most of the time, you look at WR lists, and the No. 1 guy is someone at La. Tech or something.

Then you look at RB. No. 1 is Iowa State. Harris is the only guy on a top-end team, and he should get some votes, but he's not upper echelon for a Bama back. The UNC guys are kinda spicy, but they split.

And then there's QB, Jones is super, but maybe a little worse volume-wise than Tua, and he's not as pulled ahead as say the Tua-Murray-Haskins set. Trask has the numbers, but the LSU blip will kill him. Wilson needed to be undefeated. Fields and Lawrence aren't at the level with think they can be. 

I think in recent memory, Fitz had the best case in the past 20 years, but thinking was too arcane (White was also super good). Cooper had the best resume, but he got caught with a 2,500 yard rusher and a QB with 38 TDs, 2 picks and 14 rushing TDs who was also a great story. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Your vote for Hypesman?
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2020, 08:38:55 PM »
Didn't Bama actually lose their top receiver earlier in the season and this kid emerged?
Smith was the #1 coming back, Waddle was good, too.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Your vote for Hypesman?
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2020, 08:44:13 PM »
I'd like for some old people with money to come out with a Heisman/Maxwell alternative, given to the best player each year.  The actual best player.  Almost half the time, it'd be a lineman.  A LB every so often.  A CB.  A safety.  A WR.  You know, NOT the best QB on a top 5 team.
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For some reason, I can't get Arizona LB Scooby Wright's 2014 season out of my head.  164 tackles, 15 sacks, 31 TFL overall.  
0 first place votes.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

bayareabadger

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Re: Your vote for Hypesman?
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2020, 08:48:56 PM »
I'd like for some old people with money to come out with a Heisman/Maxwell alternative, given to the best player each year.  The actual best player.  Almost half the time, it'd be a lineman.  A LB every so often.  A CB.  A safety.  A WR.  You know, NOT the best QB on a top 5 team.
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For some reason, I can't get Arizona LB Scooby Wright's 2014 season out of my head.  164 tackles, 15 sacks, 31 TFL overall. 
0 first place votes. 
He deserved better.

This year is weird because it doesn't seem like any defensive player fits the bill. Like usually there's 1-2. But none seem that big. 

Were it not for the health aspect, I honestly think Pitts would be right up near the top. Add 4-5 more TDs, 200-300 more yards, would be interesting. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Your vote for Hypesman?
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2020, 08:52:16 PM »
Yeah, he had to sit out 2+ games.  He was uncoverable.  Too big for fast guys, too fast for big guys.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Your vote for Hypesman?
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2020, 08:55:25 PM »
The more you study Heisman voting, the more you see it's hot garbage.  Yes, the consensus guy wins and all of the finalists have had great seasons, but look down the ballot.  There are some bogus-ass BS voting going on down there.  I mean utterly indefensible refuse.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

ELA

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Re: Your vote for Hypesman?
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2020, 08:56:49 PM »
My vote would rarely go to a QB.  Usually it's a RB, but I don't think a RB or defensive player fits the bill.  No runaway QB.  It's Smith easily for me.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Your vote for Hypesman?
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2020, 09:01:56 PM »
That's why I have an issue voting for Mac Jones.  What luxury doesn't he have?  He hands the ball off to an NFL RB.  He is protected by an NFL offensive line.  He's throwing to NFL WRs.  He has a good defense to get him the ball back.  He has the best HC.  He has a great OC.  
He could play left-handed and be above-average.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Kris60

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Re: Your vote for Hypesman?
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2020, 09:04:53 PM »
I'd like for some old people with money to come out with a Heisman/Maxwell alternative, given to the best player each year.  The actual best player.  Almost half the time, it'd be a lineman.  A LB every so often.  A CB.  A safety.  A WR.  You know, NOT the best QB on a top 5 team.
.
For some reason, I can't get Arizona LB Scooby Wright's 2014 season out of my head.  164 tackles, 15 sacks, 31 TFL overall. 
0 first place votes. 
I remember Scooby Wright’s stats being like something you would see on the original Tecmo Bowl.  You know how they gave Mike Singletary a bunch of sacks on his stat line even though he wasn’t a pass rusher?  That’s how Scooby Wright’s stat line was that year.  It seemed made up.

It was like a video game just wanted to show the user he was a really good player so they gave him a bunch of stupid good stats no one could really accumulate in real life.  I didn’t know it was possible to get as many tackles as a middle linebacker and as many sacks as a rush end.

ELA

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Re: Your vote for Hypesman?
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2020, 09:13:22 PM »
That's why I have an issue voting for Mac Jones.  What luxury doesn't he have?  He hands the ball off to an NFL RB.  He is protected by an NFL offensive line.  He's throwing to NFL WRs.  He has a good defense to get him the ball back.  He has the best HC.  He has a great OC. 
He could play left-handed and be above-average.
He's not in the running for me. I would have voted for Burrow last year, but that's the exception not the rule for me. He was just so far and away the best. If I had to vote for a quarterback, it would be Trask, and I don't think any running backs or defensive players stepped up, so he'd probably get my #2 vote.

CatsbyAZ

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Re: Your vote for Hypesman?
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2020, 09:25:37 PM »
My Heisman ballot would go:

1. WR Smith - Alabama
2. QB Penix - Indiana
3. QB Trask - Florida

bayareabadger

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Re: Your vote for Hypesman?
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2020, 09:34:11 PM »
That's why I have an issue voting for Mac Jones.  What luxury doesn't he have?  He hands the ball off to an NFL RB.  He is protected by an NFL offensive line.  He's throwing to NFL WRs.  He has a good defense to get him the ball back.  He has the best HC.  He has a great OC. 
He could play left-handed and be above-average.
On the on hand, I wouldn't vote for Jones, but I see the case. It maybe has some #Narrative, but that is what it is.

He was the backup plan. A kid who wasn't supposed to be here. And he's basically matching what a transcendent player in Tua did. And yes he has all the stuff, but so did Kelly Bryant and so does Trevor Lawrence (who also has transcendent talent), and Jones is notably more productive than both. 

I can see the argument. It's not one I'd go with, but I don't think it's glaringly bad. Even good players' ability to eff things up is impressive. Look at Chris Simms.

(I think if UF doesn't lose to LSU and Trask was clearer in that game, he's nearly got it locked. He'd have the crazy numbers, plus the backup plan story, plus the performance against Bama would have a totally different light)

MaximumSam

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Re: Your vote for Hypesman?
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2020, 09:50:37 PM »
I'm not clear on how cfbstats computes qb rating, but Mac Jones has the highest recorded on their site.

 

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