Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

What science am I denying?

(BTW I agree that "anti-science" isn't restricted to one political party. I just don't think this example proves it.)

I know that you agree with my point since the gist of all of your rebuttals has been "of course I view this issue through a political lense instead of a scientific lense. The primary reason that I do this is because of my political affiliation."

THAT, and that alone, is my point. Thank you for providing a visual aid.

I have no interest in altering your views on that issue, and you don't need to justify them. I already know WHY you do it. I was merely using it as an example in order to make a larger point; one that by your own admission, you agree with.

And again, you're missing my point. I'm not viewing "this issue" through a political lens and trying to decide what I feel about the science based on my politics. Where politics intersects for me is that because my political leaning is "leave people alone" it makes the science irrelevant to me. If my view is that I do my thing, and other people do theirs, it doesn't matter to me whether "theirs" is science-based or not.

That said, I think if you believe that gender is entirely some binary dichotomy, I'd venture to say that you're the one denying the science. One things humans are really good at is breaking things down into simple and easily-discernable categories.

Often reality isn't quite as clear. Sometimes it's not as simple as "peepee or vajayjay."

For example, a study in Australia of transgender people revealed significant genetic differences that relate to many of the hormones that we commonly associate with gender. Essentially, they studied a bunch of transgender (male who identified as female) and found that despite their external male parts, they had genetic differences specific in genes known to deal with sex hormones from those who were born with male parts and identified as male.

What do you do if someone has XY chromosome and male parts but the development of their brain (due to other genes) and their hormonal responses are more typically female? I'd venture to say that maybe someone who developed like that isn't so easy to categorize as 100% M or F.

If someone felt with every fiber of their being that they were a different race, or age, or height, or species, or object, then most people would not be willing to go along with the dude. You might because"live and let live" and **insert libertarian attribute** but most people would find it ridiculous.

If someone"identifies" as a different gender, then all of a sudden a lot more people will be willing to play along. The reason for this is rooted almost entirely in politics instead of science.

Not sure what is so hard to follow here. I think that your brain is snapping into "OMG, it is time to debate transgender issues" mode.

I don't care where you stand on that, and have no desire to alter your stance. It was just an example, and I thank you for illustrating it.

If someone felt with every fiber of their being that they were a different race, or age, or height, or species, or object, then most people would not be willing to go along with the dude. You might because"live and let live" and **insert libertarian attribute** but most people would find it ridiculous.

No, but people of certain races, ages, and height often feel significant societal pressure to behave in certain ways. 

Race is more cultural/historical than anything, but one of my good friends in high school was mixed race. At one point he told me that it was often hard for him because around his black friends, he was expected to "act black", and around his white friends, he was expected to "act white". It was like society kept trying to pigeonhole him into something and he was just trying to be himself. And "himself" was a mix of two different cultures and ways of acting. I learned something at that point--even though I would never have tried to make him "act white", when he was around me he felt he had to try to conform, and when he was around black friends he felt he had to try to conform, and neither was 100% natural for him. 

I'm sure growing up you had evidence in Ohio of white kids who tried to "act black" -- I recall a specific term that we could just call "the wh- word" and you'd know the sort of opprobrium they endured. In predominantly black communities there are kids who resist the stereotypical "black" mold and they're often faced with ridicule from their own community for trying to "act white" or be "uppity". We live in a world where a certain type of dress, a certain type of speech, a certain type of behavior is expected in the business world to get ahead, and it's screwy that that behavior is seen in certain areas as "acting white". In fact, that was part of the issue with Kirk Ferentz and the Iowa program--it sounded from the reports like there was a certain mold that he was trying to push people into and they were angry about it. 

A lot of people have difficulty in life because the world wants to categorize them one way and that's not how they feel. 

I'm pretty certain that I'm on the high-functioning end of the autistic spectrum. I've spent 42 years not ever feeling like I truly "belonged" with "normal" people. Do you know what that's like? It sucks. You bring up species. The most well-known website / forum for people on the spectrum is called "Wrong Planet", and it was so named because high-functioning autistic people don't feel like there's anything "wrong" with us--if we were on our original planet with our own kind we'd be fine, but we somehow were born on the wrong planet with a bunch of humanity that is functionally different from ourselves. In truth, it's probably that something in my genetics and hormones / gene expression / etc that occurred in my mom's womb that tweaked my brain to make it just ever so slightly "wrong". But I'm not wrong--I think I'm fine and just want to get along and not be looked at like a weirdo because I'm a little off. 

If someone"identifies" as a different gender, then all of a sudden a lot more people will be willing to play along. The reason for this is rooted almost entirely in politics instead of science. 

Not sure what is so hard to follow here. I think that your brain is snapping into "OMG, it is time to debate transgender issues" mode. 

I don't care where you stand on that, and have no desire to alter your stance. It was just an example, and I thank you for illustrating it.

Yeah, that's pretty much it. You know what they call that? "Empathy". It's the ability to realize that someone's situation may be completely different from your own, and try to understand and accommodate that because you're a good person. 

Accepting that for someone who is transgender, that's legitimately their truth in life, doesn't hurt me in any way. But being a dick to them hurts them. 

Why would I want to do that?

Two happiest days of a man's life.

I'm gonna bow out and let y'all talk about the weather.

It's hot here.

Daily highs have been in the 90s for basically the entire last week, with overnight temps too high to open the windows, so had to run the A/C. 

Electric bill is going to suck this month. 

Good news though is that originally we were predicted to have this continue all the way through next week, but it seems to be moderating and most days will have highs in the 80s instead of 90s starting Saturday and continuing into next week. 

No, but people of certain races, ages, and height often feel significant societal pressure to behave in certain ways.

Race is more cultural/historical than anything, but one of my good friends in high school was mixed race. At one point he told me that it was often hard for him because around his black friends, he was expected to "act black", and around his white friends, he was expected to "act white". It was like society kept trying to pigeonhole him into something and he was just trying to be himself. And "himself" was a mix of two different cultures and ways of acting. I learned something at that point--even though I would never have tried to make him "act white", when he was around me he felt he had to try to conform, and when he was around black friends he felt he had to try to conform, and neither was 100% natural for him.

I'm sure growing up you had evidence in Ohio of white kids who tried to "act black" -- I recall a specific term that we could just call "the wh- word" and you'd know the sort of opprobrium they endured. In predominantly black communities there are kids who resist the stereotypical "black" mold and they're often faced with ridicule from their own community for trying to "act white" or be "uppity". We live in a world where a certain type of dress, a certain type of speech, a certain type of behavior is expected in the business world to get ahead, and it's screwy that that behavior is seen in certain areas as "acting white". In fact, that was part of the issue with Kirk Ferentz and the Iowa program--it sounded from the reports like there was a certain mold that he was trying to push people into and they were angry about it.

A lot of people have difficulty in life because the world wants to categorize them one way and that's not how they feel.

I'm pretty certain that I'm on the high-functioning end of the autistic spectrum. I've spent 42 years not ever feeling like I truly "belonged" with "normal" people. Do you know what that's like? It sucks. You bring up species. The most well-known website / forum for people on the spectrum is called "Wrong Planet", and it was so named because high-functioning autistic people don't feel like there's anything "wrong" with us--if we were on our original planet with our own kind we'd be fine, but we somehow were born on the wrong planet with a bunch of humanity that is functionally different from ourselves. In truth, it's probably that something in my genetics and hormones / gene expression / etc that occurred in my mom's womb that tweaked my brain to make it just ever so slightly "wrong". But I'm not wrong--I think I'm fine and just want to get along and not be looked at like a weirdo because I'm a little off.



Yeah, that's pretty much it. You know what they call that? "Empathy". It's the ability to realize that someone's situation may be completely different from your own, and try to understand and accommodate that because you're a good person.

Accepting that for someone who is transgender, that's legitimately their truth in life, doesn't hurt me in any way. But being a dick to them hurts them.

Why would I want to do that?

My wife teaches at a school for kids "on the spectrum."  She's a reading specialist.  Sometimes, it's very challenging for her, other times it's incredibly rewarding and fulfilling.  I go to the graduation ceremonies.  They are very heartwarming, sometimes to the tear-jerking extreme.  Kids who were ridiculed and bullied, or just couldn't quite get what it was their teachers were wanting them to do, thrive in this school.  Teaching them to read better opens up whole new worlds for them.  I feel like the teachers there are truly doing God's work (no offense to non-believers intended).


As a society, we're not overflowing with empathy these days.

Unfortunately some years you didn't have a lake

Ha!

There are always lakes.  It's why I keep my boat trailered rather than in a slip on a (occasionally non-existent) lake.