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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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Entropy

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2716 on: May 17, 2020, 02:37:00 PM »
Company leaders today are much more educated on these things. "Nobody" is dumping raw waste into rivers/lakes anymore.

Except Government, of course.
I agree that nobody would be dumping but do believe that if maint could be pushed out, companies would do that... and pushing out maint would lead to more accidents that cause pollution.   So while we are more educated on the implications, I'm not as confident that budgets would always be prioritized like they are today.  

Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2717 on: May 17, 2020, 02:52:08 PM »
Company leaders today are much more educated on these things. "Nobody" is dumping raw waste into rivers/lakes anymore.

Except Government, of course.
If environmental regulations were eliminated today, do you think everyone would continue to play nice?

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2718 on: May 17, 2020, 03:15:55 PM »
I don't.  Someone would cheat first and gain competitive advantage, and then it would be an avalanche.

There is zero market advantage in not polluting, and a significant cost advantage in doing so.


Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2719 on: May 17, 2020, 03:17:49 PM »
Let's take low sulfur Diesel fuel as an example.  It's mandated in the US (but not in Europe, which is "green").  Does anyone sell low sulfur Diesel in Europe?  Nope.  If the requirement here were lifted, do you think truckers would pay an extra 20 cents a gallon for it?

(I don't know how much it costs, but I do know there is an issue of what to do with all the sulfur being removed from fuel.)


Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2720 on: May 17, 2020, 04:49:18 PM »
I don't.  Someone would cheat first and gain competitive advantage, and then it would be an avalanche.

There is zero market advantage in not polluting, and a significant cost advantage in doing so.


Exactly. 

I worked finance in the corporate world.  Eventually you get high enough and removed enough that everything breaks down to numbers.  One of the companies I did some work for was self insured for their health insurance.  One single employee had a very sick child and it was costing the company over a million a year.  Do you know how many times I had to fight behind the scenes to stop people from firing that guy to keep our insurance costs down?   Eeesh.

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2721 on: May 17, 2020, 05:42:17 PM »
I had to deal with the EPA a few times, and the city municipal water folks once.  The latter were completely and totally incompetent.  They had zero clue about anything.  The EPA guys were trying to do a good job, they were, but the CFR is so "byzantine" and bizarre, they spent hours on the phone back to HQ trying to interpret passages I pointed out to them that were mangled.  These guys typically had degrees in environmental science and knew their basics.  I had no problem with them.

I had to deal with OSHA twice, and it was the same deal really, younger fellow trying to do the right thing and confused by the Code.  I managed to avert a $100,000 fine because of the ambiguity I noted.  

I had to deal with the US PTO a few times (Patent Office).  They were staffed by two types, younger fellows going to Georgetown Law School at night who put in their hours and then studied, and the old geezers who had been there for eons and DID NOT CARE.  The geezers knew how to work the system, they had to track something called "counts", which is akin to billable hours.  It was a scam of course.  We learned how to work the system to out advantage.  I once had a patent approved in nine months from sending it in to notice of approval.  I was proud of that one.

It actually was an invention, which is very unusual in patentland.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2722 on: May 17, 2020, 06:12:39 PM »
First of all, they should rename the EPA.  In the last 3 years, it hasn't protected jack squat.

Secondly, if they passed a law that you could dump anything, companies would be dumping horrific crap THAT MORNING to save a penny.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2723 on: May 17, 2020, 06:17:17 PM »
You might not like what the EPA has done publicly, depending, but they have very much been extant over the past three years.

https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-announces-2019-annual-environmental-enforcement-results

One could argue of course they should be doing more, fine, but to assert they are doing nothing is absurd hyperbole.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2724 on: May 17, 2020, 06:35:09 PM »
You might not like what the EPA has done publicly, depending, but they have very much been extant over the past three years.

https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-announces-2019-annual-environmental-enforcement-results

One could argue of course they should be doing more, fine, but to assert they are doing nothing is absurd hyperbole.
64 rollbacks and 34 pending.
Coal lobbyist to head the EPA.
C'mon man, it's not hyperbole.

Lessening CO2 emissions
Reversing clean air and clean water acts
weakening protections of wetlands and protetcted areas
opening up allowance of mercury emissions
power companies no longer have to report methane emissions
loosened toxic emission standards


The only environmentally friendly things have been from losing in court.

Basically, you're completely wrong.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2725 on: May 17, 2020, 07:34:06 PM »
64 rollbacks and 34 pending.
Coal lobbyist to head the EPA.
C'mon man, it's not hyperbole.

Lessening CO2 emissions
Reversing clean air and clean water acts
weakening protections of wetlands and protetcted areas
opening up allowance of mercury emissions
power companies no longer have to report methane emissions
loosened toxic emission standards


The only environmentally friendly things have been from losing in court.

Basically, you're completely wrong.
He's not completely wrong.  The EPA still has teeth, even if half of them have been knocked out in the last 3 years.  

There was a time when the republicans were proud to support the EPA. Richard Nixon CREATED it.  Republicans have shifted far to the right on so many issues, but especially on environmental ones.

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2726 on: May 17, 2020, 07:57:00 PM »
First of all, they should rename the EPA.  In the last 3 years, it hasn't protected jack squat.

This is hyperbole, entirely, and ridiculous.  The EPA is still extant and still enforcing the rules even if you don't like what they do.

This is absurd, about like the egg lobby silliness.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2727 on: May 17, 2020, 08:00:53 PM »
You're patting them on the back for making sure we're only poisoning ourselves a little more than we used to.  Brilliant.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2728 on: May 17, 2020, 08:04:03 PM »
I'm not patting anyone on the back.  They could well be doing less than they should, but to claim they have done NOTHING is ludicrous.

Your hyperbole is getting comical.

Try dealing with reality sometime.

CWSooner

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2729 on: May 17, 2020, 08:16:06 PM »
It's the Motte and Bailey argument again.
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