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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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CWSooner

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2702 on: May 16, 2020, 10:11:41 PM »
Quote from: bayareabadger on May 16, 2020, 09:59:23 PM
Reading this part, it strikes me that a quasi-free lunch situation (the GI bill) set the stage for our college bubble. Weird.

(Free lunch in that it was a weird perk that insulated a generation from those costs and made it commonplace)
But everybody (well, there must have been exceptions) recognized (or should have recognized) that the taxpayers (including the beneficiaries themselves) were paying for it.  And it was seen as an earned benefit for the GIs who had just saved the world (even though only a relative few had actually suffered in harsh and dangerous conditions, much less faced enemy fire).
And, in the long run, we probably are still paying for it.  I imagine that there are lines of causation connecting the GI bill with today's bloated university environment and the lessened value of high school education.
So, after all that, yeah, quasi-free lunch situation.  Seemed free (or maybe just cheap) but in the long run it wasn't so much.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2703 on: May 17, 2020, 07:29:19 AM »
When my son got out of the marine corps, having served two stints in 'Stan, he used his GI Bill money to get a certificate in electrical contracting. He's now an electrician, making very good money.
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MaximumSam

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2704 on: May 17, 2020, 07:40:56 AM »
Regarding pollution and carbon, the free market has always struggled with pollution control, because companies don't take into account costs of pollution without the government forcing them to.  If you can just dump your waste, at no cost to you, then you do it. 
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847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2705 on: May 17, 2020, 07:56:34 AM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on May 17, 2020, 07:40:56 AM
Regarding pollution and carbon, the free market has always struggled with pollution control, because companies don't take into account costs of pollution without the government forcing them to.  If you can just dump your waste, at no cost to you, then you do it.
The 1970's are over. "Companies" are mostly all doing their best to be good stewards. Of course there are bad apples.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2706 on: May 17, 2020, 08:20:15 AM »
I think companies would pollute to the letter of the law while running slick commercials pretending otherwise.
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FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2707 on: May 17, 2020, 09:00:51 AM »
whatever is more profitable 

I've witnessed a company dump against the law and pay the fines, because it cost less than disposing properly
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2708 on: May 17, 2020, 09:08:27 AM »
I worked at a site out in the country for years that was mostly chemical labs.  Before my time, folks would take their chemical waste and throw it in a pit out back.  There must have been 300 labs at least in the facility.  They paved that over for manager parking, but the site was/is a Superfund site.  When the company shut down serious R&D, they tried to sell the facility (which in fact is very nice) but couldn't because of the dump.  I think it still stands there derelict, but maybe they tore it down.

I looked it up, it was torn down in 2016.  They had a major expansion in 1988.  That part was super nice.

I liked working there mostly.

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Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2709 on: May 17, 2020, 11:54:57 AM »
Quote from: CWSooner on May 16, 2020, 10:02:36 PM
Right.  I hope I have not implied that there is no role for government.  I'm not a libertarian, so I can't speak for them, but I don't understand them to be anarchists either.
I do take an ideological side.  If you show me with data that beyond a shadow of a doubt our country would operate more efficiently if old people were put to sleep and turned into Soylent Green at age 75, I would not support that idea.  If you showed me the same if every baby born with birth defects would get to make that same contribution to social welfare, I would not support that either.
I can think of some interesting regulations that could unleash free-market creativity.  Require that fossil-fuel-burning power plants use only air from their smokestacks for their HVAC systems.  Require that city water treatment plants discharge upstream of the city water intakes.
But those ideas would not line politicians' pockets or ensure their re-election, so they would be seen to have too much downside.  :)
OK, ya got me.  99% of the time I look at the data and let that guide my decision.  Obviously, if the answer to global warming was kicking puppies, than I would leave that to Jim Harbaugh.
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Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2710 on: May 17, 2020, 11:58:33 AM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 17, 2020, 07:29:19 AM
When my son got out of the marine corps, having served two stints in 'Stan, he used his GI Bill money to get a certificate in electrical contracting. He's now an electrician, making very good money.
I bet he pays taxes, too.  And he's a productive member of society?  And he's a veteran?

Good job, Badge.
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Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2711 on: May 17, 2020, 12:01:11 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on May 17, 2020, 09:08:27 AM
I worked at a site out in the country for years that was mostly chemical labs.  Before my time, folks would take their chemical waste and throw it in a pit out back.  There must have been 300 labs at least in the facility.  They paved that over for manager parking, but the site was/is a Superfund site.  When the company shut down serious R&D, they tried to sell the facility (which in fact is very nice) but couldn't because of the dump.  I think it still stands there derelict, but maybe they tore it down.

I looked it up, it was torn down in 2016.  They had a major expansion in 1988.  That part was super nice.

I liked working there mostly.


I did some work with a company that had a site like this.  They kept it open and barely staffed because the laws mandated that they clean it up if they shut down.  It was cheaper to keep it running than to clean it up.  Ahh, Philly.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2712 on: May 17, 2020, 12:07:38 PM »
Quote from: Big Beef Tacosupreme on May 17, 2020, 11:58:33 AM
I bet he pays taxes, too.  And he's a productive member of society?  And he's a veteran?

Good job, Badge.
We are very proud of him. Thank you.
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Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2713 on: May 17, 2020, 01:33:59 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 17, 2020, 07:56:34 AM
The 1970's are over. "Companies" are mostly all doing their best to be good stewards. Of course there are bad apples.
If you gain a competitive advantage for doing sh!tty stuff, you will gain market share.  It is human nature to skirt the rules.

The bad apples end up winning, forcing the good apples to follow suit to survive.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2714 on: May 17, 2020, 02:18:06 PM »
Company leaders today are much more educated on these things. "Nobody" is dumping raw waste into rivers/lakes anymore.

Except Government, of course.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2715 on: May 17, 2020, 02:29:19 PM »
I think companies would rapidly return to polluting as much as they could as fast as they could while running PR campaigns to pretend to be "green" if it saved a few bucks.  Those that didn't could well end up losing market share and even going under.

I see these Exxon commercials about fuel from algae and they make me gag.
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