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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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CWSooner

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2674 on: May 15, 2020, 08:56:35 PM »
using asphalt as a base for concrete might be the best
My impressing of asphalt vs. concrete is that asphalt is cheaper and doesn't wear as well, while concrete is smoother but tends to crack worse.  Maybe asphalt under concrete would be a good combination.

Our asphalt roads are generally terrible.  We are right in the zone where it freezes a lot overnight in the winter but it doesn't stay frozen during the day, so we get a heavy dose of freeze-thaw cycles that work to create potholes and cracks.

It would be interesting to see a civil engineer's opinion about this.  We've seemingly got engineers around every corner here--any of them know anything about street and highway construction?
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CWSooner

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2675 on: May 15, 2020, 09:20:50 PM »
$40K is actually really, really cheap when compared to the cost of the road.  Miles are big.

"Construct a new 2-lane undivided road – about $2 million to $3 million per mile in rural areas, about $3 million to $5 million in urban areas. Construct a new 4-lane highway — $4 million to $6 million per mile in rural and suburban areas, $8 million to $10 million per mile in urban areas"


https://www.artba.org/about/faq/


I am generally clueless as to why people think the government automatically does a bad job at things.  I know, it SOUNDS right, but where is the data.  Gotta sell me on the data...
Because there is no incentive to come in under budget.  All it means for a government program to do that is that the budget for next year gets cut.
Why is the U.S. Postal Service a money pit while Fedex and UPS are profitable?  Why can't Amtrak operate at a profit even while having a near-monopoly on RR passenger travel? And even while selling soft drinks for $5 and reheated grocery-store frozen hamburgers for $10?

Nobody in the world would pay $100 for a hammer or $300 for a toilet seat, but the U.S. Air Force does, or did for a long time.
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MrNubbz

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2676 on: May 15, 2020, 09:42:52 PM »
Nobody in the world would pay $100 for a hammer or $300 for a toilet seat, but the U.S. Air Force does, or did for a long time.
IKE was not in jest"Beware of the the military-industrial complex".Look what corrupt corporate policies have done over charging for bombs,boats,bayonets.To big to fail - tough shit let them fail send a message.Might as well implement that now while were putting the pieces together.Corporate parachutes while the rank and file get pink slips.Also handing out benefits to those who have neither earned or deserve it.Have 10 kids if you want.pay for them yourselves though.The rich and many of the so-called underpriviliged have screwed the once robust middle class.And the last 2 years Trumps tax laws have done me no favors
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2677 on: May 16, 2020, 06:48:22 AM »
Asphalt base and concrete surface is now the general standard in many jurisdictions. Then you get into maintenance, which would be patching, grinding and then covering the concrete with asphalt, for a longer life. 50 years is the minimum expectation, but I've heard as many as 70 years. The initial paving of the concrete should go at least 20 years before any "real" maintenance is needed.

(this is for Northern climate)
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847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2678 on: May 16, 2020, 07:12:08 AM »
Yet another engineering disaster, started by engineers who decided to reverse the flow of the Chicago River rather than attack the real problem.


https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/environment/ct-heavy-rains-sewage-chicago-20200515-4rxpjn7hargw3avja6igpvwgxu-story.html

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2679 on: May 16, 2020, 09:04:31 AM »
Why is the U.S. Postal Service a money pit while Fedex and UPS are profitable?  
Partly because the USPS has to maintain an unprofitable letter-carrying business that services the entire country, edge to edge, from the populated urban areas down to the deeply sparse rural areas. 

Oh, and while they used to at least have volume business on that letter-carrying business that might have helped them finance those unprofitable rural routes, now we have email--so they are forced by law to still serve everyone equally while their volume cratered.


Quote
Why can't Amtrak operate at a profit even while having a near-monopoly on RR passenger travel? And even while selling soft drinks for $5 and reheated grocery-store frozen hamburgers for $10?
Because passenger rail is dumb in most of this country. We're too big and our destinations are too spread out. Outside of the DC/NYC/Boston route, nothing is close enough for passenger rail to make sense. Air travel is faster and cheaper. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2680 on: May 16, 2020, 09:17:37 AM »
Freight RRs were deregulated and got profitable.  Passenger rail was not and ....  

As noted the Acela line in the NE "works" (usually) and is needed.  No other line in the US is needed, at all, for people.  If they were, a private company would provide the service, as is being tried in Florida now between Miami and Orlando.

That isn't working out either of course.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/business/20200120/brightline-passenger-counts-revenue-remain-well-below-companyrsquos-own-projections

In a report to bond investors, Brightline, to be renamed VirginTrains USA, said it barely broke one million passengers for the year, less than half the count it projected. Revenue for 2019 was $22 million, less than a fifth of its projection.

Folks point to France.  OK fine, the TGV works reasonably well.  BUT, it was built at government expense, and it operates with a very large subsidy in the billions each year.  They don't have to try and pay off the sunk capital and can't operate at a profit or break even anyway.

You also have to drag your luggage up steps, and at every stop the wife walks to where our luggage is to ensure no one walks off with it.

The train thing just makes no sense to me, at all, except for specific areas like the NE where cities have mass transit options at the RR station.

Take a train from Atlanta to say New Orleans, why?  It's slow, it's expensive, and when you arrive you need a car.

FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2681 on: May 16, 2020, 09:26:41 AM »
the government has very little motivation

the folks get paid the same whether they are efficient or profitable or not

sometimes they are paid less if efficient

greed has it's problems, but it is a great motivator 
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2682 on: May 16, 2020, 09:30:31 AM »
I found it to be very similar working for a large company.  There was no incentive, realistically, to do more than get by.  My last 12 years involved a job that needed about 1 hour work a week, if that, and they replaced me with TWO people at the same level.

Even before that, it was a very cushy job, more meetings and some people to manage, but that didn't take much time either.  I actually would write reports no one cared about on our work to try and keep busy.  That helped out some as any time someone would ask me a question about the work I could hand them a report and tell them to read it and come back with questions.

I think I had one person EVER actually read the report.  He was a good guy.

In a large organization, it's pretty easy to "get lost" and still get paid, in my experience.

FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2683 on: May 16, 2020, 09:56:24 AM »
my experience working for IBP, the nations largest producer of beef and pork was very different

daily pressure from the board room to the janitor  to be efficient and produce.  Salaried positions pushed to work almost every Saturday, many Sundays, and holidays.  Sometimes 60-70 hours a week.

was a real grinder, many folks burnt out
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2684 on: May 16, 2020, 10:24:23 AM »
I think it varies even within the company for which I worked.  Areas like production and marketing seemed to be busy.  R&D, it just wasn't, most of it was meetings.  I'm told nearly every lab in the company is now gone, they might have 5 left, we used to have hundreds.  Everyone now pushes paper and has meetings instead of doing lab work.  There are still some pilot lines for this and that.

A friend sent a photo of the remains of the building I was in for a few years, whooshed.  I think they are about to abandon that entire site, it once had 7-8 large buildings on the campus all for R&D.


CWSooner

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2685 on: May 16, 2020, 11:06:48 AM »
IKE was not in jest"Beware of the the military-industrial complex".Look what corrupt corporate policies have done over charging for bombs,boats,bayonets.To big to fail - tough shit let them fail send a message.Might as well implement that now while were putting the pieces together.Corporate parachutes while the rank and file get pink slips.Also handing out benefits to those who have neither earned or deserve it.Have 10 kids if you want.pay for them yourselves though.The rich and many of the so-called underpriviliged have screwed the once robust middle class.And the last 2 years Trumps tax laws have done me no favors
The problem goes way beyond military purchases.  Note all the things I mentioned before the toilet seats and hammers.
The problem with a government bureaucracy even more than a business bureaucracy is that there is less accountability.  A business at least has some incentive to control its costs, while a government agency has little or none.
Was there any effort made to find the person who contracted for those toilet seats and hammers?  Probably not, any more than there is anyone held accountable for the billions of federal dollars that just disappear every year.  Hey, it's government work!  A billion dollars is just a rounding error!
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MichiFan87

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2686 on: May 16, 2020, 11:19:47 AM »
Depending on how you count them, I've had around 8 different jobs in my career, and I was almost always underutilized and often had more downtime than work to do, which of course also made me expendable, of course. Part of the problem is that not many people necessarily understood my role as an analyst, anyway. I suppose the ironic part is that in some of my jobs, my responsibilities included making systems and processes more efficient, if not automated. I would think the aftermath of this pandemic will help companies realize how much more efficient and productive they can be, though. Over the past year I've finally been meeting the right entrepreneurs to work with to be done with the corporate world, and the clean energy space should rebound faster than many others.

As for Amtrak, a major problem they have is that freight lines own and have priority on a lot of the tracks. For better or worse, self-driving vehicles will probably effectively replace most trains once they're widely deployed. I still like the idea of the hyperloop, too, but I just don't think it will be cost-effective.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2687 on: May 16, 2020, 01:44:55 PM »
A topic that comes up every so often here is a "Brain Train" from ATL to Athens.  That would get a lot of use on certain fall Saturdays at least.

There is another proposal from here to Charlotte.  I don't think that is realistic at all.  It's an easy drive.  These would be 79 mph trains, not TGVs.

 

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